"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e66c4f8b1cd44c2b3663d8ba11b69e9\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 21 JUNE 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002253ecadf58a1f4828b130a18952214ca9\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 21 JUNE 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e197dfd4f9d43d6888f55375b0f4bd0\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002234d59093352d4865bba74047c84a8443\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022993d44e718d54f36843db6a121a4bd42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022993d44e718d54f36843db6a121a4bd42\u0022\u003EHon JACQUI DEAN (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility, for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b03a11b4ccb4a4d83ed005ed09c2cf6\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e6d3bb57da24f3392544694ab58ca5d\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa897b18d90847c181bb853d89c90ceb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa897b18d90847c181bb853d89c90ceb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002272c819d0e9ee435e82f08f8771962808\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272c819d0e9ee435e82f08f8771962808\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Jian Guo Yang requesting that the House impose harsher penalties for criminal offences \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Sunny Kaushal requesting the House urge the Government to act on what we believe is a retail crime emergency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bba0635107374cbfb19af6d8d0fa1e56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bba0635107374cbfb19af6d8d0fa1e56\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions are referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002290db2f146aa34242aea053ceb04d4c47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290db2f146aa34242aea053ceb04d4c47\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EHutt Valley District Health Board annual report 2021-22\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ELotto New Zealand statement of performance expectations for the financial year ending 30 June 2024 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EGovernment response to the report of the Regulations Review Committee on its interim report on its briefing about orders made under section 70 of the Health Act 1956.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002227ae4b3f26af4ba2b713983910974810\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227ae4b3f26af4ba2b713983910974810\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. No select committee reports have been delivered for presentation. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5c8901f4a7e4a819f1fb4abb7af8042\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5c8901f4a7e4a819f1fb4abb7af8042\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ERegulatory Systems (Primary Industries) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ERegulatory Systems (Climate Change Response) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ECorrections Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f925e8524c2d4b1eabac6f4e395495cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f925e8524c2d4b1eabac6f4e395495cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those bills are set down for first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2aca5c708604935a0c933b9dee77d8c\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f508133abe0f40aaad0286a5b25ca5ca\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224822120fe7c746a48735c355bd515369\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022452b03b53ebb4125ae1b6e1395c548ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022452b03b53ebb4125ae1b6e1395c548ed\u0022\u003ECHRISTOPHER LUXON (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00221d687e55fb7f400f95e38d6d04d89e47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d687e55fb7f400f95e38d6d04d89e47\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277bc60f53f5b4642aebb52e8cc87aa6f\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How are Kiwis expected to believe that Michael Wood, Kiri Allan, and Stuart Nash are all just one-off bad eggs instead of a repeated failure by his Government to follow and enforce the rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7a92a9e1f4c412c88806640866e4cca\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t believe that those people are bad eggs. I believe that in two of those cases they made a mistake. In terms of Kiri Allan\u2019s inclusion in that, the reason that we\u2019re having that discussion is that she did disclose and manage conflicts of interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffbd6f782a6044bb8b1d5c7ee3dbd992\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he say just two weeks ago that he had trust and confidence in Michael Wood, and how can Kiwis trust him or his Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a507d15789a401c814b84e636dea9a6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, I have to rely on the information that I\u2019m given at the time. The information that I was given was incorrect and there has been a consequence for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276fd69766e344752b9e1da759d25e017\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Did he seek or receive assurances from Michael Wood that there were no other conflicts of interest after it was disclosed that he had failed to sell his airport shares? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224efb7eadb8b54288b1cf34b3943fe333\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1f8dc1fcb9a46269942949eb03f13fa\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why does that keep happening with his Ministers; when he asks for clarity of whether they\u2019ve got conflicts of interest, they keep saying, \u201CNo, no, no, I don\u2019t.\u201D, and then they do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cbfe903ba1a49c48d6c979e96d7ed6f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In this case, the Minister indicated there was nothing further I needed to know. There clearly was information further that I needed to know. He is no longer a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bd2f699dbdd4beb95c2c0b6955a7a85\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: If his own Ministers don\u2019t take him seriously enough to tell him the truth when he asked them, how on earth should New Zealanders take him seriously as Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfc0b415e463469eb745fa87295e2513\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I believe in this case Michael Wood failed to identify and manage his conflicts of interest appropriately. I think New Zealanders can trust me because in that circumstance I have accepted his resignation as a Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ca196b3aef84854b745af95e77efceb\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Why does it always take him so long, whether it\u2019s Stuart Nash, Michael Wood, or Kiri Allan, to actually hold his Ministers to account for their rule-breaking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251e17286d9f047428e3eb223a22bcbff\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely reject that. I found out about this yesterday. I took action almost immediately. These processes take a period of time. Someone is entitled to a process of natural justice. He has made mistakes and there have been consequences for those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7704bb31dc14f54ab0981bd1ce850db\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister accept New Zealanders are frustrated with crime on the streets and potholes on the roads, and, if so, can he assure them that those problems have not been caused by Ministers in charge of their portfolios who can\u2019t even keep within the basic rules of being a Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022181acb22ab764c2d8223a5d41cf7bb69\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do accept that New Zealanders are concerned about crime and they are also concerned about potholes on the roads. In terms of the last part of that, potholes on the roads, had there not been such a woeful under-investment in road maintenance we might not be in this position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dcddfc3d8aa480c985b90b4ba7a1655\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Is this Government so incompetent that it can\u2019t follow the rules or so arrogant that it doesn\u2019t believe that the rules apply to them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c3c4bc1da9940f1afaa2ce350a78c41\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Ministers who don\u2019t follow the rules face consequences for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281558de955e1479e8fb405de77c83f74\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Would it be helpful, does the Prime Minister suppose, if he stopped blaming the last Government that went out of office nearly six years ago and started holding accountable the Ministers in his Government now for their performance or lack thereof?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ced51161f5b42d6b3fd447f53634268\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very proud of the fact that under this Government the budget for road maintenance has increased significantly. The number of potholes being repaired has increased significantly. I do note the previous Government decided not to invest in those things so that it can invest in roads of national significance. The reality is we need to build new roads and maintain the roads that we have at the moment. The last Government chose to prioritise one over the other when we need to be doing both. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222178b76b79ce45efb7473950624f1103\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that living in poverty is one of the biggest drivers of health inequities for M\u0101ori and Pacific families; if so, will he commit to ending poverty for all families by introducing an income guarantee and a tax-free threshold of the first $10,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0db93c2f71c4fe2883f9052245b9d4b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes; in answer to the second part of the question, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc4197e28c8f48e88b8ecd316430cdd7\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Is he confident none of his other Ministers have undisclosed conflicts, undeclared shares, unreported links to donors, undeclared donations, or any other violation of the rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226420fa8f29aa439990fca95d0efc3062\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I have confidence in the Cabinet Office processes to identify those things and I\u2019ve just outlined further steps that are being taken to strengthen those processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df932b7ca7274f42bb39204121ae2c6e\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: How many more Ministers does he expect will resign or be sacked before the election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211e2535826964c8d8a868b177ad53643\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: I think that\u2019s a ridiculous question. I would have thought the member should be more concerned about the conflicts of interest in his own team, which he doesn\u2019t seem particularly focused on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223fc5b77d82b24f4cad0798429cfd392d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8c78c65ecbd4b1697f3936c93f1aa01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8c78c65ecbd4b1697f3936c93f1aa01\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Is he concerned at the findings in the Productivity Commission\u2019s A fair chance for all report that nearly 1 in 5 New Zealanders experience persistent disadvantage; if so, will he commit to making the changes needed to end persistent disadvantage in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00224c13dbefc5d14df9bc81877cc490b393\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c13dbefc5d14df9bc81877cc490b393\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first part of the question, yes. I believe that all parties in this House should be concerned when segments of our population lack economic opportunities, social connections, or experience economic hardship, particularly when those patterns of disadvantage are intergenerational. In answer to the second part of the question, I believe that ending persistent disadvantage is something that all Governments should be committed to. The Productivity Commission\u2019s recent report is a useful contribution to the debate as to what changes are necessary to reduce persistent disadvantage. I look forward to engaging with that work more fully and, as with previous Productivity Commission reports, there will be a full Government response as to some of the specific measures that the Government might want to take forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240ac15c40f254f2aa3ea36f2c76c6f93\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he acknowledge that an income guarantee could be a central pillar of the social floor recommended in the report, ensuring that communities and wh\u0101nau have basic public supports and incomes when they are experiencing disadvantage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ee70946a4af43dba249c4ad0eb2615b\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I congratulate the member on shoehorning into that question the Green Party\u2019s policy. I do think it is important that we provide support for people when they need it and in the ways that they need it, and ensure that every New Zealander can live with dignity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296d87865e45b4ccbaa3d7c781fa91841\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept findings that institutional racism and discrimination against M\u0101ori and Pacific peoples is contributing to poor health outcomes and disadvantage for these communities, and, if so, will he prioritise equity in healthcare?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0744d7c831f4f06bffc0213087caeac\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely we will, and are indeed prioritising equity in healthcare. The creation, through the health reforms, of Te Aka Whai Ora was an important moment, I think, in how we can take steps forward on that\u2014and actually significantly in line with the report\u2019s recommendations, because the report focuses particularly on institutional arrangements and systemic changes, and I think that\u2019s exactly what we\u2019re doing in healthcare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295a4cdd531b04f39b3383bed57c2bbe1\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that Aotearoa will be unable to meet its 10-year target to halve child poverty without significant investment to end persistent disadvantage affecting 1 in 5 New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f18bda5998ac4d9395c3b11abe7beeef\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t. I think that is a goal that will require a lot of effort from the Government over the next few years to be able to reach it, but it is one that we have committed ourselves to. I note that in the latest Budget, around material hardship\u2014which is the closest thing, in terms of a proxy, for what we measure at the moment, to persistent disadvantage\u2014we have seen a reduction by 3 percentage points since 2017-18 of children living in those circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133d4c5a9e294ddaad559f34d62ab71b\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he commit to the recommendations made in this report and to ending persistent disadvantage so all wh\u0101nau have warm, dry homes, enough food on the table to feed tamariki, and so our young people can go to school instead of working 20 or 30 hours a week to support their families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022776e71c2edb54268b11ef5af654251b0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I noted in my primary answer, we will work our way through the specific recommendations that have been made in the report. So, rather than responding to that part of the question directly, I would say that the themes in the report are ones that this Government has been working on. We know that there is always more to do, and we commit to working on those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002244e55e9621894810bd931ad19bb027c0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u002206dc02c5ecf94faa903e47316305581f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206dc02c5ecf94faa903e47316305581f\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022f47e9360e98a4f45badc50860554c7e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f47e9360e98a4f45badc50860554c7e0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, Statistics New Zealand reported that GDP edged down by 0.1 percent for the March quarter, following a 0.7 percent decline in the previous December quarter. On an annual basis, the economy was 2.9 percent larger than a year ago and is 6.7 percent bigger than before the start of the pandemic, ahead of most of the countries with which we compare ourselves. We know that 2023 is a challenging year for the New Zealand economy and New Zealand households as global growth slows and the North Island weather events disrupt households and businesses. The decline in growth over the last two quarters is characterised as a technical recession. It does need to be viewed in the context of a record number of New Zealanders in work and wages rising at a faster pace than inflation, which is not typical of recession conditions. We are well positioned to support New Zealanders through this tough time, with cost of living support and dealing with the impacts of weather events. Unemployment, however, does remain low, there has been a rebound in tourism and international students, and public debt levels are among the lowest in the OECD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295d06fc28d9347d98c9074ae55faef08\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: What was the impact of the North Island weather events on the GDP numbers in the March quarter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be38c7880d3645ccb6c42d1ec6f6a30c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The impact of the Auckland floods and Cyclone Gabrielle saw declines in primary production, manufacturing and transport, postal, and warehousing activity. New Zealand\u2019s economists have said that headline growth would likely have been positive in the March quarter if it wasn\u2019t for the cyclone. They said that the rise in immigration and fiscal support could support momentum and growth in the economy over the second half of the year. Westpac\u2019s economists said the results show that the economy \u201Cis in a transition phase rather than in outright recession.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210e5de5ac2044678ab0054e559ac139a\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government manage the response to the economic outlook?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9a3cad55d2d42a5bae98db5f6b73902\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Economic activity has been affected by the North Island weather events. Looking ahead, the Reserve Bank is forecasting that the recovery and rebuild from these events will add about 1.5 percent to GDP spread over a number of years. The Government will have a part to play in the recovery, as New Zealanders would expect us to. The cost of asset damage from the weather events is estimated at between $9 billion and $14.5 billion, with half of that related to infrastructure owned by central government or local government, such as roads. We are committed to supporting New Zealanders with the cost of living pressures and to investing in essential public services, as well as the work we need to do to help these regions recover and rebuild.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022244c8783239e44c997eff49ccf2668ea\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022049bc63f24084831a1bb5c05103e3e30\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: We do see reports that show the resilience of the New Zealand economy. This week, it was the BNZ-Business New Zealand Performance of Services Index, or the PSI, with a reading of 53.1 in May, close to the long-term average for the survey. A reading above 50 indicates that the sector is generally expanding, while below 50 indicates that it is declining. Sales, new orders, and employment all expanded. BNZ\u2019s economists said the result indicated that the economy would grow modestly in the June quarter. As I\u2019ve said previously, this is a tough period for New Zealanders, but our economy is resilient and we are building for the long term to deliver higher-wage jobs and lower emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002239b3ae8f3aca4459ae03686fe41ab0c0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7906c4239144ca6a5059f24c9758fa8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7906c4239144ca6a5059f24c9758fa8\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What advice, if any, has he sought from Treasury in the past six months on specific matters relating to New Zealand\u2019s current tax settings, and what specific tax changes, if any, were considered as part of the Budget process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8732ff9d088487e832af16cee00f325\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8732ff9d088487e832af16cee00f325\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Government seeks and receives a range of tax policy advice during the parliamentary term, including in the past six months on New Zealand\u2019s current tax settings. That advice varies from agency to agency and is reflected, for example, in the decision in the Budget to lift the trustee tax rate. In answer to the second part of the question, the Budget process for 2023 began around August of last year, and, as at all Budgets, it considered whether specific tax changes were appropriate. That was the subject of Cabinet discussion. Cabinet discussions are confidential until such time as announcements are made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229460d94d3c2940c3abb80dbea1e596b1\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The second part of the question was very specific: what specific tax changes, if any, were considered as part of the Budget process? I don\u2019t believe the Minister has addressed that part of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a05b933858143d698b10d948fcf6c34\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think he has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022857e7078129d49a387ed0436423a85fe\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps I can help here\u2014speaking to that point, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228edae9ae856b4c1d9cf23e6b08f7ce57\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, how can you? I\u2019ve already made a ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228736b064e1c54b38ae42c2b0528a6ee9\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the issue is a question of Cabinet. The Minister is using Cabinet confidentiality to not address the second part of the question, but the question does not refer to Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224614fb008a854e3aa531a512170fcaa6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the point of having further supplementaries\u2014you can explore that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225028199996e04d3395ac9f688e982ba3\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, can I speak to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cbf4538689c465690aeac530da0ac5e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. As I said, I\u2019ve already ruled on it. Go back and read Hansard, read the question, and listen to the answer. It\u2019s been addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216fc6c61cc3241c8957bc5a6f317789f\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab245be8fee54745b70c83e810b218a7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A new point of order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaae6bef450540719fbbfb07382dd144\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Mr Speaker. I think it is something that bears some consideration. You\u2019ve often said that the member has more supplementaries to further explore the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c48443533401459d96009984e7748f47\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! You\u2019re now disputing my ruling\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f12d498ab58c4eb4abf81c526b662c0f\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not; I\u2019m just trying to be helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e9b03765a9c4f8292d64471cff13150\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and interjecting while I\u2019m on my feet. I mean, one person has been elected to be the judge of what happens in here. Either you\u2019re going to allow me to do that under the rules, or not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e3c8bd7d06a49f59061e370effddf57\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Has he used his public office to obtain advice on possible changes to the tax system that have not yet been made public?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228762f734c5b5479d9453cee8857330bc\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I refer the member to my primary answer. I did note in my primary answer that at this Budget, as at all Budgets, consideration has been given to specific tax changes. Those are the subject of Cabinet\u2019s discussions. They are confidential until such time as announcements are made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe57502fe7494caf9f34b8c087824661\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why doesn\u2019t the public have a right to know what policies his Government is considering on tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a567f7314014e6eb3ab1a1809016f1c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have answered a number of times in this House that the extent of the Government\u2019s work on tax was outlined after the 2020 election. That has been the work programme for tax. In respect of the Budget, we had the announcement on the trustee tax rate. In respect of this Government, those are the actions on tax that we are taking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255b3044db06c480b99e58093e9816f0d\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can he can he rule out the possibility that tax changes rejected by Cabinet will re-emerge in the Labour Party manifesto?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa8f6ef5342d43d9b17fc2b2a81748a7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Labour Party manifesto is not my ministerial responsibility, but I can indicate to the member that it has not yet been finalised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ffd861a75004d5498ea405dfbcaa7f6\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Has the finance Minister, or has he not, sought and received advice on possible options for reducing or increasing income tax? If he won\u2019t answer that question, why doesn\u2019t he believe the public have a right to know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022466721728bf949fa9a585a620c14c95f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have answered that question, and that\u2019s exactly what my primary answer suggested. I would refer the member, if she wants further advice on this, to an answer given by Bill English on 5 June 2015 with respect to questions about support for children in hardship, where he acknowledged that Treasury had given him a range of advice and said that that advice would be released as part of Treasury\u2019s Budget 2015 proactive release in early July.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cc239f987ea4ebe80422a555d960a8a\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. This line of questioning is one that I have now attempted via written question and via the Finance and Expenditure Committee process, and it relates to Ministers\u2019 responsibility to the House to account for the advice that they receive. This has been a matter of many Speakers\u2019 rulings throughout the years and I would direct you specifically to Speaker\u2019s ruling 187/2, which notes that the Official Information Act does not exempt Ministers from their accountability to the House through question procedures, and I would simply ask that you direct the Minister that he cannot use the later release of information\u2014the planned later release of information\u2014as a reason to not fully address questions asked in parliamentary written or oral question form. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262eb6b3d4e75443db399ea7e7fb3fc83\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t want to prolong others because I have addressed the question. I don\u2019t want to comment on your rulings, but that is what you ruled. In my last answer, I was simply referring to a practice that has occurred in the past as far back as 2015, but I believe I have addressed all the questions I have been asked today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc0aec5dac1341e79ac529b2641e6df9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: So the Minister must answer, if they can, consistently with public interest, but it\u2019s up to the Minister to judge that. So you can ask further questions, if you wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9e9a318e5764b31bff40263a7f8d91a\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, is there any chance I could have an extra supplementary to do so?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fafd195f849413ea07dc228f64ce5f0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t grant you one, but you can\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228157cdd199024bd9926477e4b5f0d0ec\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I would just make the point that the answers given by the Minister of Finance did not refuse to provide information in the public interest. He refused to provide it because it would be later available, and, as Nicola Willis has pointed out, Speaker\u2019s ruling 187/2 is very clear that that\u2019s not an appropriate answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209d9deca37a7423cb6d2eec58c4ba626\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll invite all members to do what I will do and go back and look at the Hansard about exactly what has been said, and check whether or not my rulings are correct. If it\u2019s not, I\u2019ll come back and correct it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227a600bc5d3f45b3b65a9c303ef7a5cc\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cea517ef9f2147f590c9d7d7496155a9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A new point of order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022342fa37b3e124bbd83cf9953b0a9edea\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I just seek leave to table a document. The document is the letter I have received from you, Mr Speaker, on 20 June, which sets out your concerns that you have written to the Minister of Finance on the matter discussed in the letter, advising him he should not be using the Official Information Act to consider whether to release information requested in the written question. You have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229904cc13d531454f8a99ffa9ded98a09\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none. It may be tabled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022967e623eaaba44a98c19a1409c622179\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Energy and Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u002210ac4867dc074012a53f897c3443ae2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210ac4867dc074012a53f897c3443ae2d\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Energy and Resources: What actions is the Government taking to drive the uptake of hydrogen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4f0e8234e5f4634a473e49e0faaa2aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4f0e8234e5f4634a473e49e0faaa2aa\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources):\u003C/span\u003E In Budget 2023, our Government introduced a $100 million contract for difference to stimulate the production of hydrogen at point of consumption. This will allow the growth of a hydrogen industry in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220791855be884479faf79278717f62efe\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: How will the $100 million hydrogen rebate support the uptake of green hydrogen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e833a60321b2431195b2626f4d12838c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s green hydrogen consumption rebate will bridge the price gap between fossil fuels and green hydrogen to support the early adopters to reduce their emissions by 150,000 tonnes of carbon, equivalent to cancelling out the emissions of hundreds of trucks. This initiative will help make green hydrogen a financially viable option as the industry develops and drives down emissions in our hard-to-abate sectors as part of the Government\u2019s broader plan to decarbonise the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3c8378fef844759b74c8fb1a90510cd\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government\u2019s hydrogen rebate support New Zealand\u2019s just transition regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac902cfe7a8d4fb8a7653d9f4278770d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: Our just transitions regions, Southland and Taranaki, will directly benefit from the Government\u2019s hydrogen rebate. Hydrogen businesses will be required to build partnerships in these regions to create good jobs, build skills, and develop local supply chains. This will support regional resilience. It will also enable decarbonisation in hard-to-abate sectors and the development of new renewable generation, supporting a just transition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b7e29bbf23d46d4b5d515ef92509987\u0022\u003ENaisi Chen\u003C/span\u003E: How else is the Government driving the uptake of green hydrogen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d4abd7d22d443edb64cdc138603c0c9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is committed to working closely with innovative New Zealand businesses to test, trial, and build out the kit needed for a hydrogen economy. Examples of these partnerships include working with HW Richardson to convert six trucks to dual-fuel hydrogen vehicles and supporting Hiringa Energy to develop a hydrogen refuelling network covering the routes taken by 80 percent of freight volume.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002232515ccf64f342cd8ce4162890f9ed10\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u002212716ebc88e348b3bb16ea23e9b454c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212716ebc88e348b3bb16ea23e9b454c7\u0022\u003EBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What are the subspecialties to which the wait-list equity adjuster was being rolled out in the wider northern region, and how, if at all, is ethnicity being used as a factor in prioritising access to health treatment outside of the equity adjuster tool?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00223c958aebae1c4cfd909099756668002e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c958aebae1c4cfd909099756668002e\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first part of the question, aside from the Auckland District defined by the former district health board (DHB) boundary, I am advised that Te Tai Tokerau District has implemented the tool for urology and orthopaedic wait-lists, and Waitemat\u0101 has recently implemented the tool in gynaecology. I am advised that the equity adjuster is not used for acute care or cancer treatment. The equity adjuster is applied to planned care, previously referred to as elective care. In answer to the second part of the question, I am advised that Te Whatu Ora considers all factors when assessing people\u2019s needs for care. Most importantly, this is primarily based on clinical need, as determined by the clinicians involved, but other factors are taken into account, including ethnicity from time to time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eb77f35e3054edebb772c672b205b9e\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that in November 2020, cancer and blood services at Auckland DHB had a policy to \u201Creduce inequity for M\u0101ori and Pacific peoples by putting them at the front of the prioritisation queue\u201D, and can she give a guarantee that ethnicity is not being used to prioritise the queue for cancer services in any Auckland hospitals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295e21634821d4ccc8cccf1b787f75d0d\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for that question. The document that that member is referring to incorrectly said that that programme of work has started; it in fact never occurred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaff8cb3b50f4fb09bbd9b9c6bbd0717\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: What, then, does she say to the medical professionals confidentially telling ACT that the practice is still going on, and staff know about it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcfe26f95c2d49e69950c29ac37b94b6\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, those medical professionals have avenues for raising their concerns, if any, within Te Whatu Ora, and I note that a number of health leaders, including the Royal College of Surgeons, have come out in support of the equity adjuster as applied to planned care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff7ef4a9c43f453a91f99cf91043275a\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that medical practitioners are afraid of speaking up on this issue, such as the surgeon who texted to say, \u201CMy concern is the lack of consultation from Te Whatu Ora, and we are unable to express our concerns to the powers. Many of us feel this is wrong, but there is no avenue to express it, let alone change it.\u201D? However, this person refuses to be identified for fear of retribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc6e5fd344e14b9d8d47788e89f13580\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I have worked with surgeons for multiple years of my professional life, and the courage it takes to be a surgeon is the courage to stand up for your conviction. So I encourage that person if they\u2019ve got an issue to bring it forward, and to take it up also with the professional leaders who have come out in support of that process for planned care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b3dd0a6f99748a690d894c6b7fc9d6e\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has she received on the most effective ways to improve M\u0101ori and Pasifika life expectancy so that it is in line with the P\u0101keh\u0101 life expectancy, and is she committed to action on the best evidence available to address health inequities? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258538eb0a19f4820a3ec505a7aace50f\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am committed to evidence-based action to address health inequalities, and the advice that I have received is that the strongest thing we could do to address health inequities\u2014the seven-year life expectancy gap between M\u0101ori and Pasifika\u2014was to vote for the smoke-free legislation, something the other side of the House showed a remarkable lack of moral courage to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f305b19d10c24c38b7be092627e627fd\u0022\u003EBrooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that in February 2022 Auckland DHB said, \u201COur focus for planned care is prioritisation of long-waiting patients over 200 days, and long-waiting M\u0101ori and Pacific patients over 120 days\u201D, or did this also not happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dabb48ba8c9e403899111a62de1bce97\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: At Auckland Hospital, that approach would have been replaced with the equity adjuster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7429991bce94f119de7f7e42157849a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0395c75c4b54375883787f5efe0fece\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0395c75c4b54375883787f5efe0fece\u0022\u003EDr SHANE RETI (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: How many people on surgical waiting lists have had the equity adjuster applied, and how many received an improved prioritisation with a contribution from the ethnicity component?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00229e617cfd1ad5448c96a5c4b71dd81b10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e617cfd1ad5448c96a5c4b71dd81b10\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I am advised that all specialities in the Auckland district have been using the algorithm tool since February 2023 for treatments. It is estimated that over 10,000 patients will have had the equity adjuster applied. I am also advised that due to the complexity of the algorithm being made up of clinical priority and time spent on the wait-list, rurality, ethnicity, and deprivation level, Te Whatu Ora is unable to estimate how many patients have received an improved prioritisation just due to the ethnicity component alone. However, it is important to note, as we canvassed in the House yesterday, that the most influential factor on how a patient is scheduled is how sick they are, as determined by their doctor, and clinical priority remains a primary element.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c2d91e7af174e598eaa90881b4be445\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Have clinicians discriminated against M\u0101ori and Pasifika on surgical waiting lists, given the Prime Minister\u2019s assertions that for the same clinical need, M\u0101ori and Pasifika have waited longer and \u201Cthat is discrimination\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259ef189c6a034018a5a13a2079cb2a8c\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I refer that member to the press release put out yesterday by the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons, who are, obviously, intimately involved in this area, and it does mention that unconscious bias can affect how patients are assessed and how long they spend on the wait-list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5eec72022454f1c8fc8dbb66be5aa9e\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Are wait times, deprivation levels, and rurality collectively better measures of inequity than ethnicity; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022779d84bd125e409bb438c78f15e8e1fc\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I believe there is decades of evidence that shows that ethnicity is an independent predictor of health outcome in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b181384cfbe24eab8611799dbbe7c474\u0022\u003EDr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: What factors will she take into account to determine if the equity adjuster is creating new discrimination, as requested of her by the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fae3bffecd9469286d8ca001e30c693\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I have asked officials to prepare a plan for how that evaluation will be undertaken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220251882db8d84b2c9d80c10c65cadf79\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the statement that \u201Cto the entitled, equity looks like discrimination\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dfc3ef4e07e4e94a2fd7d05f61c8f68\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: It is clear to me that, for decades, we have had inequitable healthcare in this country and that we have been working on this problem for decades. In fact, multiple Governments have been working on this problem, and yet we have not been able to fix the issue and more needs to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cda945a4ceca44ee9cfd01c07786054c\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister\u2019s response to a quote from a health expert who says, \u201CBut more to the point, some of the health gaps are not explained by socio-economic status or any other factor other than ethnicity. M\u0101ori experience systematic health disadvantage because of their ethnicity.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f07b731fa6314d1fbf21592c96715e5e\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: That is also my understanding of the evidence, and that is what I mean by my response to the previous question\u2014that ethnicity is an independent and strong predictor of your outcome in the New Zealand health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a4af0c23d8104eac80d6e20ec7f672ab\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Defence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d97578beb14141b781f97639fd4a7f55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d97578beb14141b781f97639fd4a7f55\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Defence: What recent defence arrangements has New Zealand made with Fiji?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002234587d3ec99644f7a2f2ba8339aa5897\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234587d3ec99644f7a2f2ba8339aa5897\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Bula vinaka, Mr Speaker. New Zealand and Fiji are close friends and military partners, and we share a view that it is for the Pacific Island countries to determine the security arrangements for our own region. The New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) and the Republic of Fiji Military Forces\u2014or RFMF\u2014have a long history of exercising together and partnering on regional security, climate response, and humanitarian challenges. This recently included Fiji\u2019s vital assistance to us following Cyclone Gabrielle. Last week in Suva, I joined with Fiji\u2019s Minister of Home Affairs and Immigration, Pio Tikoduadua, to sign two arrangements: a Status of Forces Agreement\u2014or SOFA\u2014which sets out the legal framework for closer military cooperation within our respective territories; and, secondly, a statement of intent to outline priorities for closer defence cooperation. These two arrangements complement the strength and spirit of New Zealand and Fiji\u2019s broad relationship as outlined in the Duavata Relationship Statement of Partnership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea4bce986fa94d7299f7945263a8f616\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: Minister, what are the areas for closer cooperation set out in the statement of intent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248df7d5d6e854b97a126e4e20628e1f6\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The statement of intent reaffirms New Zealand and Fiji\u2019s joint commitment as security partners in our region, based on a shared vision for a secure, stable, and resilient Pacific for current and future generations. It\u2019s been agreed that between 2022 and 2025, we will include a joint focus on training, maritime security, and coordination of disaster and humanitarian responses. It also includes specific initiatives such as boosting personnel exchanges and secondments, more formalised dialogue between our civilian agencies\u2014such as the Ministry of Defence and Manat\u016B Kaupapa Waonga\u2014and between Ministers bilaterally and multilaterally within our region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222640a9ab90f04cf484289544dce799cb\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the purpose of the Status of Forces Agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209d8565720e445f0824ca5a3d54a3503\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: The Status of Forces Agreement provides a clear legal framework for cooperation between our two militaries in accordance with our respective laws and regulations. It will strengthen cooperation and good conduct of joint or unilateral visits; exchanges; maritime, air, and land-based exercises; and other activities between the NZDF and the RFMF. Because we know that climate change is the most pressing security threat for island countries, the agreement also commits both parties to minimise adverse effects of activities on the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5f99f7ce49b4490ab37bef5fec0e706\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: Is this the first Status of Forces Agreement we\u2019ve entered into with a Pacific country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8bfcb31ac844d38aff52557507733c9\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: No, we have a range of agreements to strengthen our partnerships with Pacific countries. This includes Status of Forces Agreements with the Cook Islands, Timor-Leste, Tuvalu, Tonga, Australia, and France. It\u2019s a positive development for New Zealand and the region to now have agreed a SOFA with Fiji.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c9012abad2d42ab9551582b478f695f\u0022\u003EVanushi Walters\u003C/span\u003E: How do these defence arrangements contribute to the overall relationship between New Zealand and Fiji?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022955c10bdd9da44619a4ddb93c111cf05\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: As the Prime Minister said earlier this month, our countries\u2014Fiji and New Zealand\u2014\u201Care connected by a kinship forged in Pacific culture, identity, and interests founded on our long history, friendship, and mutual respect.\u201D Building on our longstanding military cooperation reaffirms the strength and spirit of New Zealand and Fiji\u2019s relationship, as outlined in the Duavata Relationship Statement of Partnership and the 2050 Strategy for the Blue Pacific Continent. It sits alongside other contributions this Government has recently announced, such as the $11.1 million of climate change support for Fiji to respond to the impacts of climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f60da09819549cab92449de68da47d0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00227f81c7787bb642e39c57cb0e5e91c941\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f81c7787bb642e39c57cb0e5e91c941\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her statement, \u201CIt is my view that New Zealanders feel safer\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022004be33db6f844dea105d97dbdc38c49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022004be33db6f844dea105d97dbdc38c49\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by my full statement at the time it was given: \u201CIt is my view that New Zealanders feel safer with a Government on track to deliver 1,800 extra Police.\u201D This includes approximately 270 authorised officers who work in specialist areas tackling crime. Authorised officers have been counted in constabulary numbers since the introduction of a Policing Act in 2008. The inclusion of authorised officers in the 1,800 was made by the police Minister at the time of the announcement and was included in the proactively released Cabinet paper. To the second part of the member\u2019s question, I quote the National Party: \u201CAuthorised officers in the right areas will speed up and make our criminal justice system more effective, efficient, and put the right resources in the right places at the right time.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022456c9233dc5d4306a78ec169e873394a\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: So in light of that answer, does the Minister now want to correct her answer to the House that there were 1,800 new front-line beat officers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022491f86f94593479789aa0e1a1d19a71c\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: I refer the member to my primary question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d125ab0b15764d2db1f0b3f36073ed00\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want to correct that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022744687e9d78045c5bbf05c5046d568a8\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. I refer the member to my primary answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d4b7e6e6c23491ebdbd927a94d26918\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister define a \u201Cbeat officer\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb9509968eeb43d68d6c53f1c8b061a7\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: The front line of crime has changed over time, and I consider chasing the money, taking assets off criminals, and crippling criminal networks to be an effective tool; and that is exactly what these authorised officers are able to do. I\u2019m sure it\u2019s for this reason that National propose to expand and increase the use of authorised officers in this document [Holds up document].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a4e90900ec3495994ea49ba63c09c3b\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell us where she found the definition of a beat officer, or is it her own definition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c685fc0b10a9495ba9162e3a2d27ff72\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: If the member would like to refer to the Policing Act, where constabulary numbers were defined and counted for the nine years that member was in Government, under the same definition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f714a51c050c4c57a98c2091b45aeadb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Forestry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2781d0397f74076906429dae9973dbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2781d0397f74076906429dae9973dbc\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Forestry: How is the Government empowering communities when it comes to the planting of forests?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00222c577408223b4f3db7395f0cb8ccab97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c577408223b4f3db7395f0cb8ccab97\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister of Forestry):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, this Government delivered on its 2020 election commitment to tighten up rules on farm to forestry conversions by giving communities greater control over the planting of forests. We are empowering local councils, who will work alongside their community to decide which land can be used for plantation forests, which are forests that are intended to be harvested, or carbon forests, which are forests that the landowner intends to farm for carbon. This moves away from a system where councils and communities had limited tools to deal with farms being purchased explicitly for conversion into forestry. I believe forestry has a role in our economy and environmental measures to address climate change, and this announcement ensures that the forestry sector maintains its social licence working alongside our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022413d3ed6ad85446586da411530bf9f17\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the significance of this announcement for rural communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc911ce2374e4cfe91e973108efd49bc\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: The devastation that unfolded at Te Tair\u0101whiti and Hawke\u2019s Bay during Cyclone Gabrielle was a stark reminder of what can happen if we get land-use settings wrong. Today\u2019s changes help us towards addressing the findings and recommendations of the recent ministerial inquiry into land use, and these changes are about getting the right tree in the right place for the right reason. I have seen fewer pine forests planted on high-productivity farmland and more pine forests being planted on less productive land. It is the view of this Government that we have got the balance right. This Government acknowledges that both farming and forestry have a bright future under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c8e017c48244c0f9a21ff3c8c8420ac\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: How will this change benefit the environment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f9f0b0163d4480abf6a84688d2ef4a4\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Climate change is here. Amendments to the National Environmental Standards for Plantation Forestry, otherwise known as the NES-PF, will see the environmental effects of carbon forests being managed the same way as plantation forests. This means many standards, such as ensuring rules around riparian planting, will now be required for any new forestry conversions, which will include carbon forests. We have heard and acted on the real concerns, especially from regions such as Te Tair\u0101whiti, Wairoa, and the Tararua district, about the scale of exotic carbon forestry happening and the potential impact to the environment and on rural communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c32bd39007b4d68b1b433f23e6228de\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: How is this announcement being received around the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e076756efba346e7ab9debc6728b475d\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: On Wednesday last week, I attended Fieldays 2023 at Mystery Creek, where the general response to the announcement was very positive. In fact, in their words, we took the wind out of National\u2019s sails, and they\u2019re looking forward to National revisiting their policy on forestry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022875b5694caa043e7be494a09ac303205\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! The Minister ought to know that he can\u2019t use supplementaries to criticise the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a0531e9d6564de8b97a07b1fba515c9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022f32d39fd67a145b492b45e32f64a9d87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f32d39fd67a145b492b45e32f64a9d87\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Education: Is she confident that the Government\u2019s early childhood education announcement on Monday has adequately responded to the concerns of the sector, who had previously described it as \u201Cunworkable\u201D, and, if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfb9d6c1da5d4f5d993688cc190f5354\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfb9d6c1da5d4f5d993688cc190f5354\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. I have met with sector representatives three times since Budget day. They made clear that the funding condition of particular concern was the requirement for services to allow enrolment for only 20 early childhood hours if parents requested this. This has now been removed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a3ae3103b34e40a56d8ccbb0d8e6ce\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is Early Childhood NZ chief executive Kathy Wolfe correct when she said of the Government\u2019s alleged solution on Monday that \u201Ctheir solution is partial and clear as mud.\u201D, and the sector needs \u201Ccertainty not vagueness,\u201D; if not, why is Ms Wolfe incorrect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224578dbc9ba6346b097820741bc6f0b9e\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my answer to the first question, I have met with sector representatives three times since Budget day. At the second meeting, I asked them to clarify to me what the particular sticky issue for them was, and it was the requirement to enrol for 20 hours if requested by parents. They said that some of them already do publicly provide their fees, and they were willing to work with the ministry to allow greater transparency around that. So it was purely the 20 hours that was the main sticking point for them, and they confirmed this to me at the second meeting I attended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c043d33358549ffa9ccf57afb00ffb8\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister understand that the 20 hours free policy has never worked for home-based early childhood education (ECE) providers, as it directly contradicts the role of an educator as a self-employed contractor and it leaves their income level not viable without optional charges?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f56d374604a43bd8ac15230401b64dd\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve also met with the home-based sector, who shared their concerns with me, and have asked officials to go away and do some work on that, which the Minister and I will be taking into consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d63ca8597ec74516a7f6e77bc2c5a344\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister ploughing on, imposing this ill-thought-through policy that 90 percent of the ECE sector opposes, at a time the sector is chronically short-staffed, thousands of children are stuck on wait-lists, and many ECE providers are on the brink of closure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022963d71fdda244fd18cd1c6f7aedd83ca\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is committed to reducing financial pressures on families during this tough economic time, and the way to do that was to reduce fees in the early childhood sector and reduce barriers to early childhood education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222d1304a2050f426f94ca33f47e186205\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Digital Economy and Communications\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u002260e4633c09cc47719efd8e1740fe8946\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260e4633c09cc47719efd8e1740fe8946\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications: What progress has been made on the Game Development Sector Rebate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcb103ec7ffa4bcaa4f9121a159ba27d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcb103ec7ffa4bcaa4f9121a159ba27d\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications):\u003C/span\u003E This Government and the game development sector are gearing up to roll out the support of the announcement from Budget 2023. The Government is providing certainty to the growing and important game development sector with a $40 million per annum funding boost through the Budget. We\u2019re now shifting focus into delivering that scheme. Consultation on the scheme\u2019s design opened last week and closes on 6 July, with the scheme\u2019s outline expected to be announced by October and successful applicants receiving year 1 funding in mid-2024. I\u2019ve also announced that NZ On Air has been selected to administer the scheme. It has considerable experience in administering contestable funds and has developed a good relationship with the game development sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dd8e5065f2c4ee085500a32cbbae3f2\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What support will the rebate provide the game development sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e620b801a5e24c0e9b304af799db1253\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: There will be good support in place for the gaming development sector. The scheme will provide a 20 percent rebate that is designed to help grow and retain game studios here in New Zealand, up to $40 million a year across the industry. Studios that meet that threshold will be able to receive up to $3 million a year in rebate funding. The scheme will be backdated to 1 April of this year, meaning that businesses will already be able to receive support. It will offer huge potential for our young people entering into the sector. I\u2019ve been thrilled to see the strong responses from the game development sector to this investment and hear that this will enable them to grow further and contribute to our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022584084f4a51b4e00984afdcf5bca249e\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What are the main design features in the consultation document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022070ee99ad34042909d75310d2a07ba94\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is proposing the rebate will apply to eligible expenditure on digital games that are intended for public release for entertainment or educational purposes. Eligible expenditure would include expenditure related to developing and commercialising digital games, research, and game design, including adaptation to new platforms. Over the past few years, the Government has been working very closely alongside the gaming development sector as one of the key focus areas in the digital industry transformation plan. This consultation is yet another step in this process and I want to get good feedback from the sector on the detailed design of the new scheme so it sets us up for success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022975ac7d8584e40cfb5857e39b89c2b5f\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How important is the game development sector to New Zealand\u2019s economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225052962d33b24ed1a9686d016eaa64d7\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Really important. New Zealand\u2019s game development sector is a small but fast-growing part of our tech sector, bringing in $400 million in revenue in 2022. Our firms enjoy international success\u2014around 96 percent of the sector\u2019s output is exported. The digital economy and the digital technology sector contributed $7 billion in GDP in 2021 and since 2016 it has grown at twice the annual rate of the economy. As a Government, we are committed to making the best investments for the future of the economy, and the game development sector rebate will help build the New Zealand we want for the future. That\u2019s a high wage, low emissions economy and one that has high skills, innovation, resilience, and sustainability. I\u2019m looking forward to seeing the scheme progress and achieve the Government\u2019s ambitions of a promising new sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f6ad3c52e9a4fb9a2403529fe44f744\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d881ebdb735241ffb634bb656bf2dc53\u0022\u003EOranga Tamariki\u2014Allegations of Inappropriate Sexual Behaviour by Staff in Oranga Tamariki Residences\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00220191db429ba04e40ab6982576c93e4e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220191db429ba04e40ab6982576c93e4e2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received letters from Karen Chhour and Jan Logie seeking to debate, under Standing Order 399, the Government\u2019s response to allegations of inappropriate sexual behaviour by staff towards young people in Oranga Tamariki residences. This is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. Children in Oranga Tamariki residences are in a vulnerable position, and the State has a duty of care towards them. A potential failure of that duty, and the Government\u2019s response to it, warrants the attention of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d5eaa26076dd44b4b4d69f14e642722e\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002259b365b9ddc64d169f0084b16ddaa411\u0022\u003EHon Michael Wood\u2014Resignation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00223d952d57a468427194177243aa45c233\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d952d57a468427194177243aa45c233\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have also received letters from David Seymour and Christopher Luxon on the resignation of the Hon Michael Wood as a Minister. This is also a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. As Speaker, I have to decide which is the most urgent of the two requests, and I have considered that the Oranga Tamariki matter meets those criteria. However, I am prepared to consider the Wood resignation applications again tomorrow if parties would like me to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ead6e951f4e842cbb06b5c8bb3b61ffc\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229cd28b73f5fc41168338e15151170ff3\u0022\u003EOranga Tamariki\u2014Allegations of Inappropriate Sexual Behaviour by Staff in Oranga Tamariki Residences\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002261d259789b5a418bb68ac75e81d0be3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261d259789b5a418bb68ac75e81d0be3c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Karen Chhour\u2019s letter was received first; therefore, I call on her to move that the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022b94320b804bf47b1b6669a906bff83bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b94320b804bf47b1b6669a906bff83bd\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EAt 11 a.m., we were shocked with an emergency media stand-up from Oranga Tamariki to talk about an issue that has arisen. There were allegations of inappropriate sexual behaviour from two staff members of Oranga Tamariki\u2014this is just coming to light. These are two separate facilities, one facility is where children who have committed crimes are in a facility that should be protecting them from harming themselves or harming anybody else who is not safe, and then the other facility is a care and protection facility. The words \u201Ccare\u201D and \u201Cprotection\u201D become a bit of a joke when they are not being protected within that very facility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EWe have had so many incidences, since I\u2019ve become an MP in this House, where Oranga Tamariki has come into a bad light with the way that they are running the organisation. We had humongous debates around watering down the oversight of Oranga Tamariki last year, and in September last year I stood up and I even had a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) for this very issue with youth justice facilities and facilities run by Oranga Tamariki. I had an SOP that I put forward and I asked for the Labour Government to accept that SOP that would allow somebody to go unannounced into a youth justice facility, or any organisation that was run by Oranga Tamariki, if a child felt they were not safe within that organisation and needed somebody there to represent them\u2014and that SOP was shot down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EWe had two young people that sat and spilled their guts on national TV, begging this Government to make sure their children within youth justice facilities and Oranga Tamariki - run facilities were kept safe and had advocates that could come in and advocate for them. But we watered down that Oranga Tamariki oversight. We split it into three separate organisations and we said children would fall between these cracks, young people would fall between these cracks, and we\u2019re seeing it happen already. Where were the people that were supposed to protect these young people? Five young people so far have come forward to say that they have been inappropriately touched and inappropriate sexual behaviour has happened within these facilities\u2014from what I can tell. You know, there\u2019s not much information right now, but this is a sign that Oranga Tamariki is not fit to run these facilities. They\u2019re even having to hand it over to somebody else now, because they\u2019re not fit to run these facilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EHow can we call them \u201Ccare and protection facilities\u201D when we\u2019re not protecting these kids. They\u2019ve been traumatised most of their life, probably; they\u2019ve been put in a facility where we\u2019re meant to take care of them and provide them with the services and what they need, and we\u2019re traumatising them all over again. We had this argument last year\u2014that children were not being listened to, children were not being heard, and children were being sent into places where they were not safe. They felt like they were not being heard, and now it\u2019s come to fruition. It\u2019s not that long ago that we were having this discussion, and nobody over in the Labour corner would listen to these young people. Nobody would listen to every other party in this House that said we\u2019re getting this wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EAnd now we\u2019ve got five children\u2014that we know of\u2014that have been harmed and hurt. I am so angry on behalf of these kids. We cannot take that harm back. We cannot fix this problem. We already had just finished an inquiry of abuse in care. We\u2019ve pushed that inquiry report-back to next year. We haven\u2019t even finished apologising for past abuse, and the abuse is still happening. Apologies mean nothing if it is still happening. And nobody wants to stand up and actually take responsibility for this. These are children that rely on us. These are children that rely on us to protect them, and we are not doing it. Where were the people that were meant to be there for these kids, to say, \u201CHey, something\u2019s not right.\u201D Where were the social workers? Where were the counsellors? Where were the staff that were meant to protect these kids? If these facilities are overcrowded, if they are understaffed, why hasn\u2019t something been put in place to make sure that these kids are protected? These facilities are lock-up facilities with CCTV cameras. How is this happening? Why is nobody speaking up? And why has it taken so long for this to come out and for us to actually be able to debate this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EWe can\u2019t keep doing this. And I\u2019ve stood in this House and said this on my very first day. I know I\u2019ll have to have these uncomfortable conversations, but I keep having these uncomfortable conversations\u2014and it shouldn\u2019t be the case. We should be getting it right by now. How many millions of dollars have we spent on an inquiry into past abuse; have we not learnt? Have we not put processes in place to make sure this doesn\u2019t keep happening? To stand up and say, \u201CThis is not good enough, it shouldn\u2019t have happened. We\u2019re going to have another inquiry.\u201D I\u2019m sick of reading inquiries. They say the same thing over and over again for years, and nothing\u2019s changed. It\u2019s another generation that\u2019s so broken they can\u2019t be fixed. Where is the outrage for these kids? Where are the people that are standing up and saying, \u201CThis is not OK\u201D? Because these kids need a voice and they need to be heard. I don\u2019t want to have to stand up here again and be apologising next year for the next five kids that haven\u2019t been protected\u2014what are we doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003EWe need to get this right. We need to take the politics out of this and put the kids at the front, to work together\u2014all parties\u2014to make sure that we\u2019re not standing here in 20 years\u2019 time apologising for another 20 years of abuse in care, because I am not going to take responsibility for that. But this Government needs to take some responsibility for lightening the oversight of Oranga Tamariki a year ago and not taking it seriously enough. And now we\u2019re finding that the advocacy for these young people was not there. That\u2019s not their fault; it is partly the Government\u2019s fault for taking away that advocacy. It\u2019s OK to admit when you\u2019re wrong; what\u2019s not OK is to keep making excuses. I\u2019ll keep standing here if I have to and yelling from the rooftops until not one more child is let down by an organisation that\u2019s meant to protect them. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022bedc169bd0c04aca92e4691a2d419953\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bedc169bd0c04aca92e4691a2d419953\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I\u2019d like to say that nobody is making excuses. I found out on 8 June about the first instance of alleged inappropriate behaviour, Oranga Tamariki (OT) did address it, and then, just last Friday, I heard of the second instance. So Oranga Tamariki has said that the second instance shows a bit of a pattern and that we need to get to the bottom of this, and so the Chief Executive of Oranga Tamariki has appointed Mike Bush, a former Commissioner of Police, to act as deputy chief executive and to have authority over the Oranga Tamariki residences. This decision has been made in response to these serious allegations involving young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ENow, while the news of the allegations today is incredibly disappointing, appointing Mike to get to the bottom of these issues and ensure residences and community homes are safe is the right thing to do. It is the Government\u2019s expectation that children should feel safe and supported while in these facilities\u2014no ifs or buts\u2014and the Minister for Children has made that clear to Oranga Tamariki. Most staff are committed to just that, and it is frustrating and disappointing that a small number of individuals have overshadowed the work that Oranga Tamariki has done. But the safety of young people must always come first, and this move will ensure that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe two staff have been stood down immediately. As I said, the first instance I heard of on 8 June\u2014that staff member was stood down immediately then, so I can\u2019t go any more into that because there is a police investigation. Mike Bush\u2019s first task will lead an independent rapid assessment across residences. This will then widen to all care and protection in community homes, as there are also wider issues including facility security and staff retention to consider. This will take four weeks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EFocus will then shift to Mike Bush implementing a new operating model, building off work already under way. Shannon Pakura, a member of the Minister\u2019s advisory board and former chief social worker, will work alongside Mike Bush. All residence staff will be re-vetted during this process. This is common practice in New Zealand Police and the Department of Corrections, but does not happen currently in Oranga Tamariki residences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThese actions are the right thing to do, and the safety of the children must come first. The absolute priority is the safety and wellbeing of these tamariki. Oranga Tamariki residences should be safe, should be supportive, and should be rehabilitative places for some of New Zealand\u2019s most vulnerable young people. We are working hard to ensure the wh\u0101nau of the young people at the centre of this are kept informed and included as we support police to complete their investigations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIt is no secret that Oranga Tamariki residences have their problems. We know that there is a need for significant improvement, and that improvement needs to be led by someone who is coming in fresh but with significant experience, which is why Mike Bush has been appointed. Mike is here to make sure that all our residences are operating safely and that they are fit for purpose. We have legal obligations to maintain residences for young people who commit crimes. We are already working towards moving away from care and protection residences towards community-based care. The Government\u2019s expectation is that these places are safe, supportive, and rehabilitative, and we need to understand the full picture to understand what work is needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said, the allegations raised today are very concerning, and I am pleased that OT has acted swiftly to address them. There is significant work under way to transform Oranga Tamariki. It knows it has work to do, and myself, as the Minister for Children, I have made my expectations clear. We are starting to see the results, but it\u2019s not a fast or easy road, and we know children must come first. There will never ever be an urgent debate asked for to discuss the tens of thousands of children that Oranga Tamariki helps every single year to stay out of care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EOne area of change has been to start transferring decision making to communities. We know communities have the solutions. A key part of the change under way at Oranga Tamariki is to enable communities to support tamariki and rangatahi to stay with family wherever possible. Oranga Tamariki continues to make fundamental changes in its approach to practice to better meet the needs of children and families, and to allow social workers to work in complementary ways to iwi-, M\u0101ori-, and community-led approaches. Trials under way across the country to test out a new practice framework have been met with positive results and feedback from social workers, and there are early reports of wh\u0101nau and communities noticing changes in the way social workers are working with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EFunding shifts have also begun to reflect this approach. Iwi and M\u0101ori organisations received $155 million last year, up from $55 million in 2017. Funding from recent Budgets has allowed Oranga Tamariki to be flexible and innovative in the partnerships space, setting up the foundations for transformational change. So far, nine prototypes across Waikato, Taumarunui, \u014Ctautahi, Te Tai Tokerau, and Heretaunga are participating in the Enabling Communities initiative. They are developing, planning, and leading their own prevention and early support prototype, rather than Oranga Tamariki making the decisions. Of the nine prototypes, six are at the stage where they are actively undertaking service design. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003ETe Ara M\u0101tua was launched in Hawke\u2019s Bay in April and is a Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu-led approach to provide support and care for tamariki and their wh\u0101nau living in Te Matau-a-M\u0101ui. It is about putting resources and decision making at the hands of communities so they can lead the solutions for their tamariki and wh\u0101nau. An example of this transformation is the prototype of the Enabling Communities work within Hawke\u2019s Bay. Te Ara M\u0101tua aims to provide services and support to keep tamariki and their wh\u0101nau out of the Oranga Tamariki system and to return those tamariki currently in the system to the protection of the wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi. Under the korowai of Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu, wh\u0101nau with lived experience of Oranga Tamariki continue to guide the design and the development of the model. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EOT is also working closely with other agencies, and we\u2019re making changes in the youth offending space. Late last year, the Government announced the \u201Ccircuit-breaker\u201D response to address serious repeat offending by a small group of children aged 10 to 13. The fast-tracked intervention means that when police apprehend a child, information must be shared with Oranga Tamariki within 24 hours and a plan for the child confirmed in 48 hours. Hopefully, this will keep those young people out of residences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe fast track involves establishing local coordination teams working across Government, community organisations, and iwi, which take over receiving police referrals once set up. The response was launched in West Auckland and South Auckland, with an expansion to central Auckland, Hamilton, and Christchurch announced as part of this year\u2019s Budget. This evidence-based approach works. In South Auckland and West Auckland, only 26 percent of children have been re-referred by police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIt is initiatives like this that will help transform the way we care for our children in need across the country. The Government is committed to ensuring the safety and wellbeing of tamariki across the country, both in and out of Oranga Tamariki residences. The decision Chappie Te Kani has made to appoint Mike Bush and get to the bottom of what\u2019s going on was the right one, but there is no quick fix. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EIn 2022-23, Oranga Tamariki responded to over 50,000 reports of concern. Between the 2018 financial year and the 2022 financial year, the number of children in care reduced by 25 percent, from 6,316 to 4,722. We now have the lowest number of children and young people entering care since 2004\u2014the lowest since the inception of Oranga Tamariki. In the last four years, the number of tamariki in care, as I\u2019ve said, has reduced by over 25 percent. Between the 2018 financial year and the 2022 financial year, the number of uplifts has reduced by 73 percent, from 1,473 to 402. In the last five years, the total funding given to M\u0101ori providers increased by 168 percent, from $54.5 million to $146.1 million. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re asking what we have done. We have found out about the allegations. We have appointed Mike Bush to get to the bottom of these things. Now, they\u2019d be sitting there screaming if nothing was done; the fact that something has been done immediately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4bee10c75164d7eb36f6a85c0cb6865\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you haven\u2019t told us what you\u2019ve done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e60e27ae978479f866e198bcd5d09eb\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you didn\u2019t listen to the first half of the speech, and that\u2019s your problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EThe National and the ACT Government established Oranga Tamariki, and it was failing right from the outset. It has taken me, as Minister, to actually start making the changes. It\u2019s taken me, as Minister, to start handing over resources and decision making to communities. Every single day\u2014every single day\u2014we were hearing complaints about Oranga Tamariki, and now that\u2019s dried up. That was dried up carefully, but there will be every now and then something like this, where a staff member lets the rest of the team down. But that party over there had no answers when they were in Government\u2014absolutely no answers. They changed the system, but it failed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226101daca38804b3ba29b888deea5aeda\u0022\u003EChristopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Going political on a day like today? No, not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a760b06d77b459abd1bf638b7dceedd\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CMr Tesla\u201D there\u2014\u201CMr Tesla\u201D is pointing the finger\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227785d7b5a3f94ead882afd4ee8530fb1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! [Interruption] Order! Yeah, I\u2019m going to make a ruling. When you\u2019re referring to another member in the House, you need to refer to them in their correct name. You can\u2019t have nicknames.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022218b1da68c1f4f2083af3c5c8b9dd4b6\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise. This Government has been turning around what was a disgrace set up by the National Government in 2017. This Government\u2014this Government\u2014has reduced the numbers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d103913e382e4444b7d3f2716639482e\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: On your watch\u2014six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229be37c5b2590485b8e533e1c043ea034\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of offences. She can sit there screaming as much as she wants at me, but the reality is that Oranga Tamariki is a better organisation than it was under the National Government when they established it. The numbers I\u2019ve just said about the reduced numbers of children entering care\u2014that\u2019s evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a29738604a242ba88f6c63df7f40280\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: This isn\u2019t about that. It\u2019s about when they are in care, how you keep them safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b02393328e941c68d00d640e838436b\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: That is evidence\u2014yeah, but the best way to care for children in residences is to make sure they don\u2019t get to the residences in the first place. But you are the Government that wants to arrest more and throw more people into residences, into prison. That\u2019s the problem\u2014that is the problem. The more children you put in there, the worse things are going to be, not just now but into the future. It is a disgrace that the National Party is sitting there and they are saying that they can do things better when their history is about failing children\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b68083a696cd4dea972fd6745ea68a83\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: You failed them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d55d541a24d747be9433621f432b2acb\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014failing young people. Nicola Willis\u2019 party is the party that failed young people, and this is the party that is making the improvements to Oranga Tamariki. They can say what they want as much as they want. The reality is that their track record has been a record of failure in terms of protecting children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EOne final point I\u2019d like to make: there has been a reference to the royal commission of inquiry and saying that we are repeating the things that have happened in the royal commission of inquiry. What happened over the 50 years of the royal commission of inquiry was systemic and it was enduring. This shows, because the incidents happened very recently, Oranga Tamariki has acted immediately. It shows that this is not systemic, this is not enduring, and this is not long-going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003EOranga Tamariki has taken steps to get to the bottom of this problem, and that\u2019s what Mike Bush will do. I commend the Chief Executive of Oranga Tamariki, Chappie Te Kani, for acting quickly, for acting swiftly to make sure that we get to the bottom of it and that these sorts of things do not happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022d403063dd3554009a326ff31e61d4b45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d403063dd3554009a326ff31e61d4b45\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D):\u003C/span\u003E I am sure that every member in this House when the news broke this morning of five children in the care of the State being taken advantage of and sexually abused\u2014your heart drops to the floor. But having been in the House and listened to the Minister responsible, I feel as if my heart has been ripped out, squashed, and torn apart, because not once did that Minister take responsibility. Not once. And not once did he apologise or show any inclination of the care and protection and the duty he has to every single child in a youth justice facility or in State care. Not once\u2014not once. Instead, he turns around and makes the lowest form of defensive attack. And that\u2019s exactly what we saw. Instead, what we should have is humanity for those five children, and I am deeply concerned that there are others to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EAnd I want to say why I\u2019m even more concerned about it\u2014because the first thing the Minister said was he knew about it on 8 June. What\u2019s the date today? It\u2019s the 21st. How many sleeps have children in care been at risk because the Minister waited until the spin was lined up before being willing to be held accountable for his job, which is to protect\u2014to protect\u2014the children in State care? Now, I want to acknowledge my colleague Karen Chhour for her address to this House, because she more than anyone in this Chamber knows exactly what she is talking about, and for every child that has been in or is in State care, Oranga Tamariki has one job\u2014one job\u2014and that is to keep them safe from harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s just for a moment have a think about those children. The Minister wants to crow about numbers. He wants to crow about the fact that there are fewer children in State care than there were when Labour came in. Actually, I don\u2019t care about the numbers. I care about those children being safe. So is it that they are safer because they have been taken into State care, or is it that they are being safe while they are in State care? Both of those things matter\u2014the numbers don\u2019t. The primary purpose has to be for Oranga Tamariki children\u2019s safety and their safety from harm. So it\u2019s about care and protection. It is crazy\u2014the words \u201Ccare and protection\u201D is what the care and protection units are. I know there will be many New Zealanders who, like many on the side, feel absolutely crushed right now to know that we have a Minister for Children who doesn\u2019t see his top priority as the safety of children. And I want to reflect back on the work that Paula Bennett did. I went to multiple public meetings with the green paper, with the white paper. Some of my colleagues who were in Parliament at that time remembered how harrowing\u2014how harrowing\u2014those discussions were. That\u2019s what led to the creation of the Ministry for Vulnerable Children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo these five children are the most vulnerable. And a child in State care, any child in a youth justice facility, has a level of vulnerability that most of us cannot even imagine. And we know that there is a Minister who is responsible who spent most of his 15 minutes\u2014well, a big chunk of it; the last five\u2014attacking this side of the House\u2014bizarre\u2014and the majority of the rest of it talking about process and systems. No, Minister, we want to know and New Zealand wants to know that you have a heart, that you have a commitment, and that you take responsibility for the children who are in State care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EBut, unfortunately, some of this could have been predicted. When every party in Parliament other than Labour vehemently opposed changes to the oversight of Oranga Tamariki, unfortunately the writing was on the wall. But you do hope. You do hope that what you are most afraid of isn\u2019t realised. But that\u2019s what\u2019s happened. That\u2019s what happened on 8 June, when the Minister was first alerted. But no, we wait until the 21st, because then they\u2019ve got their ducks lined up and they\u2019ve got someone investigating and it makes it look as if they\u2019ve got it under control. Well, guess what! They haven\u2019t got it under control. I have not heard that we have a Minister who is taking the care and protection of those children seriously, and I think that should be deeply, deeply alarming to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EI want to reflect back on the oversight of Oranga Tamariki legislation. One of the organisations that was set up in Paula Bennett\u2019s time and then transferred to Anne Tolley was VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai, to make sure that those children and young people who were care-experienced had a voice and that we made sure that they were at the heart of any changes to the system. Well, guess what! When the oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system legislation was before Parliament, they were ignored. And so, unfortunately, what we have now seen is more harm to a group of children who are already incredibly vulnerable and who have experienced more in their short lifetimes than most of us will ever experience in our entire lifetimes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWe have a duty of care of the highest level to those children, and so it is frustrating to be in the House today and to have heard completely and utterly empty words from the Minister. Not once did I get a glimpse of his heart and his care, and I want to just actually point out that the values of Oranga Tamariki are \u201CWe put tamariki first.\u201D I didn\u2019t hear that today. I didn\u2019t hear that in 15 minutes. Not once. So where are the priorities? The Minister for Children should focus on care and protection, and the first job\u2014the first job\u2014of the Minister for Children is to do no harm to the children in his care. I\u2019ll say that again. They are in his care. And whether there\u2019s 1,000 or 5,000 is irrelevant. Every single child counts and is owed a duty of care, from the Minister to the chief executive to every single staff member. And when there is an issue, the expectation of those young people, of their families, of our communities, of our country is it will be dealt with urgency, not however many days later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EAnd for those who have heard some of stories from the royal commission into the abuse in State care, they are harrowing. They are absolutely harrowing, and it is unacceptable to the public of New Zealand that harm continues to exist. So here we go again. Here we go again. We are focused on the children, but instead what happens? The Government uses it as an opportunity to attack. Not once did the Minister say sorry. Not once. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe priority should be on each and every one of those children in State care, and whether they are in the care and protection units or whether they are in a youth justice facility is irrelevant. They deserve the highest level of care and protection. And under this Government yet again, it is an area Labour has failed to deliver to our most vulnerable. It is appalling and a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0e15d574c604575869bcda70d1a13bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0e15d574c604575869bcda70d1a13bd\u0022\u003EJAN LOGIE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m finding this debate actually quite difficult to listen to, to be honest. I genuinely believe that this has been distressing news for everybody in this House. I recognise that it\u2019s unacceptable and a breach of the Crown\u2019s responsibilities to young people in our care and protection system, which includes youth justice, and that, actually, we all have a role in terms of that oversight. I want to be very clear that a harm to those children and to their wh\u0101nau is a harm to all of us, and I want to communicate that to the people who caused this harm that we are standing with those children while due process, of course, is followed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI really just want to say my love to those kids and their families, because this is a really, really hard time. I also want to acknowledge that this will be a really triggering event for people who have been submitting to the royal commission, who have been telling us really clearly that they are standing up and sharing their stories to prevent this happening to any more kids. Our words in this discussion matter in terms of the message that we are sending to everybody who is being impacted right now and historically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI just wish we could ensure that our kids were safe. It\u2019s our job to do that, right? When they\u2019ve been removed from unsafe environments into our care, it\u2019s our job to make sure that they are safe. And this isn\u2019t the first time\u2014I want to acknowledge Karen Chhour and her impassioned speech and acknowledging that we\u2019ve all been part of this debate more than once. I have been part of this debate with different parties in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EThis is not the first time, but every time I want it to be the last time, because I do not want our kids to have to keep experiencing this. And while one case of violence in a residence is too many, there has been a pattern of abuse in youth justice residences. And, you know, today, we\u2019re finding out about five children who\u2019ve been abused by Oranga Tamariki staff working in youth justice and care protection residences at two different residences within the last year. That is my understanding of what we know at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIn 2021, we found out that staff were using excessive force and assaulting children at Te Oranga in Christchurch, which resulted in Sir Wira Gardiner, who was head of Oranga Tamariki at that time, closing the facility down, and details from an Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner report into Palmerston North youth justice home Te Au rere a te Tonga showed young residents had made serious allegations and complaints about staff there, too, including disproportionate excessive force during restraints; inciting young people to fight with staff members; bullying, swearing, humiliating, and yelling at young people; hitting them in secure units and their bedrooms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003ESo this is all within recent times. We know that part of the problem is the set-up of these institutions that are legacy institutions and that the incredibly vulnerable young people, and they may be young people who have been removed from homes for their safety or from young people\u2014who we so often hear vilified in this House as being a risk to others; usually there is significant overlap of those young offenders who go into youth justice residences almost always have histories of abuse where they have been taught their violence as an essential way of trying to survive in a very violent world\u2014that we also have responsibility for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EAnd you put those young people into residences, away from connection and community and external eyes. We know from international evidence that there is a higher risk of people going to work in those places, actually; without really strong protections in place, there is a higher potential for abuse of power and for violence being done to those children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt was pleasing to hear that we were going to be closing these residences. I do have questions that I do need answered at some point because, you know, almost\u2014in 2021, I had a conversation with the Minister about the closing of those residencies and the time frame for that and an acknowledgment that those residencies are really badly designed and problematic and a safety risk in themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe are seeing that that work\u2014I really want to know what actions have been taken to provide more supervision, oversight, and support for staff working in those residences and what investment, if any, has been made into those youth justice residences to make them safer and to enhance the wellbeing of children there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EBecause the reports from Treasury last year indicated that there was an under spend of 43 percent of Budget 2019 funding for youth justice resilience upgrades. It may seem like I\u2019m talking about something other than the immediate safety of those children, but the design of those buildings actually can enable abuse or they can protect against it. So those upgrades are an important part of this conversation and there does need to be direct accountability for that as there is accountability in terms of investigating these.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard that Judge Eivers, the Children\u2019s Commissioner, said that events under investigation came to light from an unannounced visit to her office. I really want to know if this is true, and, if yes, what does this say about our system of protection for young people that they have to go to the Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner to report rather than other members of or managers in those residences? Because when I think on that too much, it just really, honestly, disturbs me that these kids who were experiencing this harm did not feel that anybody in those residences would protect them. That is disturbing to me, and I hope that that is a part of the investigation about actually what do we need to do to ensure that all of those people are seen as safe people for our young people if something happens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EIt also speaks to an issue that has been raised about the opposition to the Oranga Tamariki oversight bill and that splintering of oversight and the removal of the multiple roles of protection from the Office of the Children\u2019s Commissioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI think the fact that these young people went to the Children\u2019s Commissioner is another evidence to me of why we were opposing that bill, because, actually, the Children\u2019s Commissioner, again and again, we\u2019ve been told is trusted by wh\u0101nau and our kids. We\u2019ve seen here, if we are to ensure that there\u2019s a protection and a backup and that we do not ever get into a situation where the royal commission is examining at the moment of the failure to protect and take action when harm has been done, we need trusted people and we need our system to be set up around the people that our children tell us they trust, that our wh\u0101nau tell us they trust. And so this feels to me as if it is more evidence about us needing to relook at that policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003EI also want to know whether the claims of sexual violence experienced by young people within residences are filtering up through the system and what the process for that is and where in the Oranga Tamariki future direction planned actions which will prevent and eliminate sexual violence and physical violence within the residences\u2014because we need it. And I don\u2019t accept that this should continue. I do not accept, either, that the Government is showing they don\u2019t care, because there actually was a response, and I do want to acknowledge that\u2014the royal commission told us that that hasn\u2019t been happening. We need it, but we need all of the questions to be answered and for all of us to be accountable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022 data-id=\u002232470aecae4e4a7a89678c9631b3367c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232470aecae4e4a7a89678c9631b3367c\u0022\u003EANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. It gives me no pleasure to stand today to talk on this matter. I want to first of all acknowledge Karen Chhour for the mamae that she has brought to this House today, for the pain and the distress that I heard in her voice, and also for all of us here who are experiencing that because no one\u2014let me be 100 percent clear\u2014ever wants a child to be harmed. No one ever, ever wants a child to be harmed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI want to also acknowledge Jan Logie for her speech as well. I think it was reasoned and I think it brought some more decorum to the House at a time that I think we need to not play politics. This is a serious matter\u2014five children\u2014and we need to, quite simply, acknowledge that this has happened, to ensure that it never happens again, and in that circumstance what I have to say is that I am very pleased that Mike Bush has been appointed and will be working through this process. There is a process to be worked through. It is serious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI understand the children, the young people at the heart of this, have been given support to deal with this matter\u2014something they should never have had to deal with, but I understand there has been wraparound support services for those children. I also understand that Mike Bush is doing a wide-ranging inquiry into this matter. I also understand, and my apologies, I was not aware of the circumstance until the debate was called, so my understanding is that it was actually two staff members who whistle-blew this matter, who actually raised issues and concerns about their work colleagues, and that was how this matter was raised and identified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EWe all want to ensure the safety of children. We all want to make sure that children are safe and, as boring and unfortunate as it sounds, there must be policies, procedures, and processes that are set in place in these organisations that ensure our children are safe. I can\u2019t say it any more plainly than that. There must be systems in place, and I have to say that in this instance it appears very much that there were not, and I am incredibly sorry for that. And I know that we all are incredibly sorry for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EI want to also just acknowledge that these places that we put these young people are not places that we would want any of our children to go. These are not the places that we should aspire for our children to end up. The Minister spoke today about the things that we are doing with Oranga Tamariki, the community response that we are having. It is my hope, in the future, that we don\u2019t have youth justice facilities for our young people and that we don\u2019t have these facilities where these young people are put. But it is community that uplifts and wraps around our children and protects them, and it is a community response that we have as opposed to the State needing to intervene. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e60c1237-5e2d-4d0a-9678-ab10db67d1b7\u0022\u003EAnd so I do say that I am so very sorry that I am here, as the member Jan Logie said, speaking again on a matter of this nature, but I think that we need quite simply to do better and that we should do better. There is nothing more to say, quite frankly, except that this House, and I believe I speak on behalf of all members of this House, are incredibly sorry that this has happened to these children, to their wh\u0101nau, and to our community, and I ask that we, each and every one of us, respond in a way that is fitting for the House at a time when this awful event has occurred. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b35d9932cb984b9ab09a87cb55011464\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b35d9932cb984b9ab09a87cb55011464\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, Mr Speaker, I acknowledge you for allowing the House to address this under urgent debate, recognising the importance of this and the priority that not just this House but New Zealand and New Zealanders must give to the importance of the care and protection of all of our children\u2014but most especially our children who are the most vulnerable, who have been abused, traumatised, damaged, institutionalised and put into the care of the State. We\u2019ve heard today that the State has failed in its duty of care to five vulnerable, abused, traumatised, and damaged children. They aren\u2019t the first\u2014the question is, will they be the last? Mr Speaker, I acknowledge you for the dignity that you have allowed the importance of this debate to be addressed and raised in the House under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ELike the former speaker Angie Warren-Clark, I heard of this news belatedly. A number of us have been in the Social Services and Community Committee since early this morning, and it was on leaving that that news broke and we became aware of this event, and that these allegations that the Minister for Children disclosed in the House today came to his knowledge on 8 June: this month; this year. According to the news media reports, Chappie Te Kani, the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki, has said that on Wednesday, two staff members have been removed in relation to the alleged inappropriate sexual behaviour, and it\u2019s reported that he said he was informed of the allegations in the past week\u2014in the past week\u2014yet we have a Minister for Children disclosing in the House that he became aware of these allegations on 8 June 2023; today is 21 June 2023. I pose the question: will this be the last time that our most vulnerable, who are placed into the care and protection of the State to care and protect them\u2014will this be the last time? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EOn 30 June 2021, the then chief executive, Sir Wira Gardiner, commenced an investigation into excessive force in youth justice residences, and here we are, two years later, almost to the day\u2014there are further victims of abuse in our State agency. I\u2019m particularly perturbed\u2014it\u2019s not just significantly important and it\u2019s not just five children who have been subjected to further abuse. I know, and a number of us know, that these kids go into these institutions because they have been damaged. Having been a youth advocate, going into those institutions and working alongside our children, I know the trauma that many of them have suffered before going into the very place that should provide that blanket of protection for them. But I am seriously concerned and perturbed that we have a Minister for Children standing in this House, devoid of compassion for those children, pointing the finger across the House, playing the politics. The politics must be taken out of this, and the priority has to be about how we collectively\u2014not just as a Parliament, but as a society, as New Zealanders\u2014put the priority and shift the culture of our country to cherish our children; tiaki our tamariki. They are taonga; why are they continually subjected to this ongoing culture of being treated as second- and third- class citizens? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, thank you for allowing and indulging us the opportunity to raise and to lift the importance of this issue under this debate of urgency. Distressing; appalling; repugnant; repulsive; abusive; despicable. And I speak not just as a member of Parliament, I speak not just as a former youth justice advocate; I speak as a mother, and if that was one of my children\u2014but they are the children of five wh\u0101nau, of a community; they are children that were in the State care and protection, and this continues to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EHad it not been for the Children\u2019s Commissioner having the power and authority to visit unannounced into a youth justice residence\u2014or residences; it\u2019s not known how many; it is known that there are five children where allegations have been made and disclosed as a result of the Children\u2019s Commission Office going in unannounced, conducting inquiries and investigations. I look over and I see my colleague Matt Doocey, spokesperson for mental health. I know as a former district inspector of mental health, having the power and the authority to go into these institutions unannounced, to conduct investigations and inquiries is so very important to keep the balance of power there, because we have people, we have children in these institutions where they are powerless. They are in the protection, supposedly, of the State, of the authority\u2014all the more reason that the Minister for Children should be acting with a measure of compassion, a measure of care, a measure of articulating that the State has a responsibility and duty of care and a legal responsibility to ensure our children are protected. Instead, I bore witness\u2014along with everybody else in this House and those who are watching from the TV world\u2014to a Minister who stood there and pointed the finger across the House. Where is the compassion in that? Where is the accountability? Where is the acceptance of responsibility? A Minister is in that position, irrespective of which Government or which party. Let\u2019s take the politics out of this and position and put our children at the forefront. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EWe had legislation in this House earlier this year and last year, called the Oversight of the Oranga Tamariki System\u2014Act, it now is. This Government has failed to act in putting the priority, in putting the best interests and welfare of our children at the front, first, and foremost. And I continue to advocate in this House, as I\u2019ve always done, on child welfare legislation or bills proposed in this House that the Government has overlooked. It has had oversight and put its politics before the welfare, the best interests, the paramountcy of those principles and legal responsibilities for our children. What must come out of this is accountability, and for this Government\u2014for the Minister for Children\u2014to stop standing there pointing the finger and remonstrating and saying \u201Cwe need to look inwards; we need to make things better.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EIn closing, Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to debate this, because it is urgent. It is a priority, and we collectively, as parliamentarians, must ensure that the welfare, best interests, care, and protection of all children but especially those who are in the State institutions of care are, first, front, and foremost, protected and cared for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u002299cc93ca6d494fc5b27f9209d42ab2cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299cc93ca6d494fc5b27f9209d42ab2cd\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I open, this afternoon, by acknowledging the situation that has happened. It is a national travesty when our tamariki aren\u2019t protected within a system that we all collectively in this House are trying to improve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EI reflect on the debate this afternoon and, while I think you do a wonderful job in this House, it must be a difficult decision at times whether a debate in this House on such a topic, one that is so sensitive, is the best way to air the challenges and issues at hand. I reflect\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d811bbd1cf7e442580ed98f915c49b4d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You shouldn\u2019t bring me into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b32a44b34daf4ab692687e2f124652f1\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT\u003C/span\u003E: And I reflect on the contributions in this House today and ask ourselves: is this the best contribution that we can make as politicians when we think about the future of our tamariki, when we think about the future of Oranga Tamariki, and an issue that over generations and decades this country has tried to resolve?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve listened to the contributions from across the room this afternoon, and I ask every politician in this House to take a step back, to humble ourselves for just a moment, albeit the political excitement of the day. I hear from across the House calling out a Minister for pointing his finger. Yet, at that part of his speech, 11 minutes into it\u201411 minutes\u2014the Opposition had shouted over him; had shouted over him, acknowledging the issue, talking about what action had been taken by Oranga Tamariki on a very, very serious allegation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EPoliticians in this House did not listen, and I am going to hold you to account for that. If you want to hear an answer, if you want to hear an explanation, then as politicians we have to listen in this House. We must listen, because, on such national travesty in this country, collectively we\u2019ve got to work together to address it. I hold the Opposition to account when they were the Government. They didn\u2019t deliver for these tamariki\u2014they did not deliver for these tamariki. And, no, we haven\u2019t got everything right, but the steps that we have made while in Government are progressive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EWhen I went to visit a youth justice home, just last week, in my electorate, I met with young people, met with people who are doing work to get our rangatahi on the right pathway\u2014people that see them as M\u0101ori, people that see them as Pasifika, people that see them for who they are, not people that the Opposition is encouraging to be colour-blind. We want our tamariki to be who they are, but, most of all, we want them to be protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EI just want to take a moment to acknowledge all the staff that are working at Oranga Tamariki\u2014that, collectively, take ownership of protecting our tamariki in their care\u2014every person that works with young people in this country, in our youth justice system, that works and strives and slogs their guts out to protect every young person that is in State care. And absolutely there is more work to do, but anyone in this House that thinks this is easy or wants to run down the staff of Oranga Tamariki is inappropriate. Harete Hipango, you need to listen to people\u2019s speeches, because the Opposition ran down staff. I want to acknowledge every staff member that supports children and rangatahi in State care, because they are the people that matter. Our young people and our children rely on them. Let\u2019s work together. Let\u2019s humble ourselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002288de6516728f45cc87140b7825bb4035\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288de6516728f45cc87140b7825bb4035\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much Mr Speaker. I have a lot of respect for Shanan Halbert\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3cbdfbe1fc74e1e83ded52c0e1386c0\u0022\u003EHarete Hipango\u003C/span\u003E: Shanan, me whakam\u0101 koe [you should be ashamed].  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1d1f6667251452fb080b752b25ddf8c\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Kei a koe. Kei a koe. Whakarongo ki te k\u014Drero. [That\u2019s up to you. That\u2019s up to you. Listen to the statement.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaaecb8569d449be9f056dba99ffb235\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Sorry to interrupt. This is not question time, OK. Members who have spoken in this debate about the volume and the type of interjections and then participate in it should think again about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db4326fd17334009b68b8c085bbef9a4\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. I have a lot of respect for Shanan Halbert, but I must say he is better than that, and he will regret that speech on the Hansard. That was absolutely appalling, and a common theme of the Government speakers in this urgent debate this afternoon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to start by acknowledging Karen Chhour for bringing this urgent debate to the House. What is more important of Parliament\u2019s time than to be highlighting an issue that we learnt about today? Because the reality is these young people are our young people. As a parent, we do not know what\u2019s ahead of us in our lives. Any of our young people through unfortunate life experiences can end up in State care, and it\u2019s paramount that Parliament, and that the Government, and that State make sure that their best interests are at heart. And that\u2019s why it\u2019s important today that we have this urgent debate. Because in my view the importance of an urgent debate is to ensure New Zealanders that this issue is being taken seriously\u2014there is accountability, there is responsibility, that we give this country confidence that issues like this are being addressed, and we work hard to ensure that they\u2019re prevented from happening again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo here we had the Minister responsible\u2014and let\u2019s be very clear because it will be recorded on the Hansard\u2014that during a time that he was there to assure the public, to give them confidence that he understood the issues that we are debating today, and he was taking action and being accountable and responsible, he took the opportunity to take political hotshots\u2014wanted to raise the political issue of maybe the Leader of the Opposition potentially buying a Tesla under the Clean Car Discount. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2751d11b53d4b78bd4f28ab5e798bac\u0022\u003EHarete Hipango\u003C/span\u003E: Despicable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c0da53b4f204731913a2dc44359da66\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Disgusting. Indefensible that the Minister responsible took the opportunity to take the time, off the eye off the ball of this debate, to get into the weeds, and get into the gutter of political potshots. Because what this urgent debate has shown today is that Minister has absolutely failed in his ministerial role. He gives the young people in Oranga Tamariki care\u2014he gives, actually, the staff in Oranga Tamariki care absolutely no confidence in his ministerial responsibility and accountability. It was his time as a Minister to step up and let people of New Zealand know that he understood the issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EGo back to that speech and tell me: where was the compassion? Where was the understanding? Where did he demonstrate that he knew what was happening on the ground for those young people? Where did the Minister articulate the actions that he had taken? He was very quick to talk about expectations but didn\u2019t outline what expectations he has. When did he talk about what instructions he had given the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki? Nothing. Where was the plan going forward?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThis is the role of an urgent debate, to highlight an issue\u2014for the people responsible to step up, be held to account, and give New Zealanders confidence that this is being prevented from happening in the future. Because there is real concern here today. We learn of inappropriate sexual behaviour for two young people, but we find out over the year: five young people. This is concerning, yet we had a Minister get up, show no real compassion to the issue, and then read a script out from the bureaucrats. Mr Speaker, those young people deserve better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022 data-id=\u00226769becb1bf64979b34aca68cf4ef385\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226769becb1bf64979b34aca68cf4ef385\u0022\u003EANAHILA KANONGATA\u2018A (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is everybody\u2019s expectation that every child and young person in the care of Oranga Tamariki should be safe, should feel safe, and be supported. I want to acknowledge Karen Chhour, who brought this urgent debate to the House, but I want to take this opportunity to cover three things. One, I will talk about the people that are involved; secondly, the steps that have taken place; and, third, learn from these experiences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI have worked in Oranga Tamariki for quite some time\u201430 years\u2014as a social worker, as a supervisor of social workers, as a youth justice manager, as an adviser, and I found myself here in 2017. The process, the people involved\u2014so I want to acknowledge the young people and their families who are involved. I want to acknowledge the staff who saw that something wasn\u2019t quite right and reported it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EIncidents that happen like this involve interviewing the young people along with the police, because it then becomes an evidential police interview. So I want to acknowledge everyone that is involved\u2014the staff, the social workers that have to inform the parents that this has happened. I want to acknowledge all the residents. Even though five young people have been identified as being affected, even though there were five, two staff members, the whole residents, the whole community are affected. Every one of those people who started work last week, today, last month, last year has the same expectation as we all have: that every child and young person in their care should feel safe, be safe, and be supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the leadership that has taken the steps that have been taken so far. The former commissioner, Mike Bush, I met him when he was leading the Prevention First programme in South Auckland, which led to the whole of the changes in the Police. I want to acknowledge the leadership that have chosen the right people to look at this because, as I mentioned before, police and Oranga Tamariki have to work together and have been working together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the former chief social worker, Shannon Pakura, who is working alongside Mike Bush to get to a place that we can identify without all these emotions that we hear in the House, who can actually take a clear head and come back to the fact that children should be safe and should feel safe when in the care of the State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve listened to all the experiences in this House and from the member herself, Karen Chhour, and to former lawyers. We\u2019ve listened to everybody\u2019s contribution in this House. But we will take comfort that the people who are now in charge of reviewing the residences have been given a time frame of four to six weeks to begin implementing any outcomes they get from this review. I want to acknowledge that I take peace from that. But I go back to the first part of my contribution about the young people, about the people involved in the residences, the young people that will be interviewed by more than one person, will be interviewed by an evidential video interviewer. Well, that\u2019s what happened when I was last in Oranga Tamariki in 2017. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the families who received the news that this has happened to their young people, because they, just like us, expect their children to be safe. I want to acknowledge the staff who are involved in this, their supervisors. I pray that they have the right guidance to be able to support their staff so that they\u2019re able to serve the children and young people in their care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003ESocial work is a calling and those in this profession do not for one minute start the day thinking that they would be harming children. In the rare moments that\u2014we are now receiving\u2014this has happened, I just want to acknowledge the spirit that these staff are in when they attend work, that they go to work and that they\u2019re fully supported. For our children and young people to feel safe and be safe in the care of Oranga Tamariki, we must also make sure that the staff providing the services feel safe and are supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019ve seen today from the chief social worker, Chappie Te Kani, the steps that he has taken, he has chosen the right people to lead this\u2014Mike Bush, Shannon Pakura\u2014and they have made every intention in what we\u2019ve read in the media that they\u2019re going to consult everybody who needs to be consulted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EI want to end my speech saying that I\u2019m comforted in reading what the chief executive had said, that he has provided the support to ensure that the young people in care feel safe and are being provided with the right support. Again, I want to acknowledge and thank Karen Chhour for bringing this matter for urgent debate in the House, and acknowledge every young person, child and young person that\u2019s been taken into care, has been removed from their family. I, as a person who has never had to be removed from my family, will never understand that. I want to say that I will never understand it, but we will try our best to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EAs I started my speech, like everybody in this House and like all of New Zealand, we expect our children, young people who are in the care of the State, Oranga Tamariki, to feel safe and be safe and be supported. I look forward to the review by Mike Bush and supported by Shannon Pakura. M\u0101l\u014D \u2018aupito.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002295945ace-51e8-4dbc-a0e3-c19f4ed99ed9\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4bdb617dc5a4b8abc32cd821a161977\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229912ceb743ae42699ecbff8c282415fc\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022d470e759027f4d1a9fac34d57b7cb18f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d470e759027f4d1a9fac34d57b7cb18f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave for the House to now move to Government order of the day No. 1, the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Claims Settlement Bill, and that this be followed by the general debate, and for the House to then return to Government orders of the day as listed on the Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5e2daa3a3c5439483cf54e59905f03a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5e2daa3a3c5439483cf54e59905f03a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002274450ce69d4c4cb2bc269d7a3cee2ce8\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Paoa Claims Settlement Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a8f5a95190bd46a9b6e9fd40eb5f8c71\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002218113bc147b54fe983fbcdfa8804598e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218113bc147b54fe983fbcdfa8804598e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Claims Settlement Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b81622672ba541058ece75d1402c9a1e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caca7002b6504727aaf4a611de0a6686\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Claims Settlement Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ET\u0101kiri mai ana te ata ki runga o ng\u0101kau m\u0101rohirohi, k\u014Drihi ana te manu kaupapa, ka ao, ka ao, ka awatea. Tihei mauri ora. E mihi ana ki a koutou kua tau mai nei i runga i te karanga o te kaupapa o te r\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. E mihi ana ki te hunga mate, haere, haere, haere atu r\u0101. Ki a t\u0101tou te hunga ora, t\u0113n\u0101 tatou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ET\u0113nei au, t\u0113nei m\u0101tou te K\u0101wanatanga e mihi ana ki te kaupapa o te w\u0101. Ng\u0101ti Paoa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E[Dawn breaks upon a resolute heart, the bird chorus of this issue now sings, a new dawn leads to the full light of day. Vitality and health to all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThanks and greetings to you all who have responded to the call of this issue to be here today. I acknowledge those who have passed, may you rest in peace. And to us who remain, welcome one and all. I, indeed we the Government, acknowledge the present issue. Ng\u0101ti Paoa, greetings and thanks to you, indeed to us all.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt was just over two years ago that I was welcomed on to Wharekawa Marae in Kaiaua to sign the Ng\u0101ti Paoa deed of settlement. I\u2019m very pleased that this settlement is now making progress through the House and that I\u2019m able to speak in support of this bill today at its first reading. I\u2019d like to welcome members of Ng\u0101ti Paoa, who have travelled to be present at Parliament for this occasion of the first reading of their bill\u2014it has been my great pleasure to host you here today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to begin by acknowledging and paying tribute to the generations of Ng\u0101ti Paoa who have sought justice for their people, and the many members of Ng\u0101ti Paoa who have passed away and could not witness today\u2019s event. In particular, I pay tribute to Morehu Wilson, a negotiator from Ng\u0101ti Paoa who, alongside his close friend and whanaunga, Hau\u0101uru Eugene Rawiri, led this settlement until he sadly passed away after deed signing. I acknowledge Morehu\u2019s wh\u0101nau, in particular his wife Louise and sons Caleb and Josh. Moe mai r\u0101, e te rangatira. [Rest in peace, noble leader.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Iwi Trust as the post-settlement governance entity for Ng\u0101ti Paoa, who have been entrusted with taking this settlement forward on behalf of the iwi to realise their aspirations for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EOn the Crown\u2019s side, I acknowledge the leadership of the chief Crown negotiators, Michael Dreaver and the Hon Rick Barker. I acknowledge my predecessor, the Hon Chris Finlayson, for his significant contribution to the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Treaty settlement. I also want to thank my ministerial colleagues, Crown agencies, and local authorities for the support that they have given to this agreement, to this settlement, and, indeed, to this day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ENegotiations with Ng\u0101ti Paoa began in 2011, when iwi members gave a mandate to negotiators to progress a comprehensive historical Treaty of Waitangi settlement with the Crown on behalf of Ng\u0101ti Paoa. An agreement in principle was reached in July 2011. Following approval by Ng\u0101ti Paoa iwi members, the Ng\u0101ti Paoa deed of settlement was signed in March 2021. Reaching this milestone hasn\u2019t been without its many challenges. Ng\u0101ti Paoa, you have demonstrated perseverance and much patience on this difficult journey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIn 1840, Ng\u0101ti Paoa rangatira signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014the Treaty of Waitangi\u2014in T\u0101maki-makau-rau and Coromandel. In those years, Ng\u0101ti Paoa saw opportunities to trade with P\u0101keh\u0101, and, after Auckland was established as the capital in 1841, Ng\u0101ti Paoa supplied that settlement with produce. However, the Crown didn\u2019t live up to its obligations under the Treaty nor the promises of that sacred document. From as early as 1841, the Crown acquired Ng\u0101ti Paoa land without payment, did not set aside reserves for Ng\u0101ti Paoa to live on, and did not fulfil promises to set aside lands for schools and hospitals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EDuring the wars of the 1860s, the Crown invaded Ng\u0101ti Paoa lands. In 1863, the Crown caused the death of Ng\u0101ti Paoa people when the HMS Miranda shelled the village of P\u016Bkorokoro and Crown forces attacked a number of Ng\u0101ti Paoa people without warning. Following the conflict, the Crown confiscated lands in which Ng\u0101ti Paoa had interests; in the Waikato, east Wairoa, and the Tauranga confiscation district. Subsequent Crown land acquisition, the operation and effects of the native land laws, and public works takings led to the alienation of much of Ng\u0101ti Paoa\u2019s remaining land, maunga, and awa, and the destruction of p\u0101 and w\u0101hi tapu. Crown actions severed connections with ancestral whenua and left Ng\u0101ti Paoa virtually landless. A decline of Ng\u0101ti Paoa tribal structures and the loss of te reo M\u0101ori contributed to a loss of Ng\u0101ti Paoa m\u0101tauranga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EResponsibility for those things sits at the feet of the Crown. This settlement is grounded in the Crown\u2019s acknowledgment of this history and the Crown\u2019s apology for its breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi. The Ng\u0101ti Paoa Claims Settlement Bill will give effect to the Ng\u0101ti Paoa settlement package. This settlement includes total financial and commercial redress of $23.5 million; cultural redress, including the return of 12 sites of traditional, historical, and cultural significance to Ng\u0101ti Paoa; an overlay classification which acknowledges the traditional, cultural, spiritual, and historical association of Ng\u0101ti Paoa with certain sites of significance; agreements with a number of Crown agencies; and statements of association acknowledging Ng\u0101ti Paoa\u2019s association with and asserting spiritual, cultural, historical, and traditional values in relation to 13 areas of significance to Ng\u0101ti Paoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EWhile no settlement can ever fully compensate for the injustices Ng\u0101ti Paoa has experienced, today marks a new beginning in the restoration of the relationship between Ng\u0101ti Paoa and the Crown based on mutual trust, cooperation, and partnership. I sincerely hope that this settlement will support a prosperous future for Ng\u0101ti Paoa for many generations to come. I propose the bill should proceed without delay to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. I commend this bill to the House. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e93b7388a9854ca3b7360069d3a97dac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e93b7388a9854ca3b7360069d3a97dac\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u002257228c92a0a64eefbdf7623e9c39d3cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257228c92a0a64eefbdf7623e9c39d3cc\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. It is a pleasure to rise as the Opposition\u2019s spokesperson for Treaty negotiations to speak on this bill. My apologies to those in the gallery that I wasn\u2019t able to meet earlier; there was fog in the South Island, which delayed me getting here until a very short time ago, but I\u2019m pleased that I\u2019m able to be here now for this auspicious occasion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThe Ng\u0101ti Paoa Claims Settlement Bill is intended to be the final settlement of all historical Treaty claims of Ng\u0101ti Paoa resulting from acts or omissions by the Crown prior to 21 September 1992, and is made up of a package that includes an agreed historical account and Crown acknowledgments which form the basis of a Crown apology to Ng\u0101ti Paoa; cultural redress, including the vesting of 12 sites in the Ng\u0101ti Paoa area of interest; financial redress of a total of $23.5 million; and a commercial redress involving the purchase of some Crown properties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Paoa are a maritime people who trace their origins to the Te Arawa and Tainui waka. Their area of interest includes Mahurangi, T\u0101maki-makau-rau, the Hauraki Plains and Gulf Islands, and parts of the Waikato. The 2018 census estimated that Ng\u0101ti Paoa had 4,800 members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EBack in 2009, the Crown proposed a regional approach to four Treaty settlements to iwi and hap\u016B, including Ng\u0101ti Paoa, with interests in the Kaipara, T\u0101maki-makau-rau, and Hauraki regions. I want to acknowledge the work done, as did the Minister before me, of the Hon Christopher Finlayson\u2014the work that was done previously, over different terms of Government, to come to this moment we are at here today. I also want to take the opportunity to acknowledge the Minister Andrew Little, who has also done a lot of work to get this bill to where it is today, and the officials, Crown agencies, local authorities, and of course Ng\u0101ti Paoa\u2014all the members. It is a big moment for them today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EBetween 2009 and May 2010, the Ng\u0101ti Paoa claimants elected two interim negotiators to enter into Treaty settlement negotiations on their behalf. In 2011, the Crown recognised the mandate of the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Trust Board to negotiate the settlement of the historical Treaty of Waitangi claims of Ng\u0101ti Paoa. The T\u0101maki and Hauraki collectives were established with the purpose of negotiating collective redress for shared interests in T\u0101maki-makau-rau and the Hauraki regions, respectively. The third collective, the Marut\u016B\u0101hu collective, was also established to negotiate collective redress in T\u0101maki-makau-rau for the shared interests of five of the 12 iwi of Hauraki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn 2012, the Crown and the T\u0101maki collective signed the Ng\u0101 Mana Whenua o T\u0101maki Makaurau Collective Redress Deed, and in 2018, the Crown and four of the five Marut\u016B\u0101hu iwi initialled the Marut\u016B\u0101hu Iwi Collective Redress Deed. The purpose of this bill is to recognise that in 1840 a number of rangatira of Ng\u0101ti Paoa signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the Treaty of Waitangi, in T\u0101maki-makau-rau and the Coromandel. After Auckland was established as the capital in 1841, Ng\u0101ti Paoa supplied that settlement with produce. In 1841, the Crown purchased 6,000 acres at Kohim\u0101rama and 220,000 acres at Mahurangi and Omaha from Ng\u0101ti Paoa and other iwi. No reserves were made in those lands. In the 1840s and 1850s, the Crown retained approximately 90,000 acres of land in which Ng\u0101ti Paoa had interests as surplus from pre-Treaty transactions and pre-emption waiver transactions. This included approximately 78,000 acres in south T\u0101maki, which had been purchased by a missionary in 1836 and 1837.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn July 1863, the Crown invaded the Waikato when its forces crossed the Mangat\u0101whiri. Some Ng\u0101ti Paoa rangatira expressed their loyalty to the Crown, and other Ng\u0101ti Paoa resisted the occupation of their lands. In October 1863, the HMS Miranda shelled the Ng\u0101ti Paoa village P\u016Bkorokoro, and in December, a Crown militia made a surprise attack on a group of 40 to 50 M\u0101ori, including some Ng\u0101ti Paoa, near Paparata in East Wairoa. In December 1864, the Crown proclaimed confiscation blocks in Waikato and Pokeno, and in East Wairoa in January 1865. Ng\u0101ti Paoa had interests in the 51,000-acre East Wairoa confiscation block and in the Central Waikato confiscation district which included Maramarua and P\u016Bkorokoro. The confiscated lands included Kohukohunui and Rataroa, Ng\u0101ti Paoa\u2019s sacred maunga. No land was returned to Ng\u0101ti Paoa in that confiscation block. Between April and June 1864, the Crown conducted military operations against M\u0101ori in Tauranga Moana. After the conflict ended, the Crown proclaimed a confiscation district of 214,000 acres, and in 1868, a further 76,000 acres were added to that district. Ng\u0101ti Paoa had interests in lands which were included in the confiscation district. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn 1865, the Crown promoted legislation which introduced the native land laws, under which title much M\u0101ori land was individualised. The individualisation of title made Ng\u0101ti Paoa lands more susceptible to alienation. Much of their land on Waiheke and on the Wharekawa Coast was sold to private purchasers in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Crown purchasing activity from the 1870s also led to the alienation of much of Ng\u0101ti Paoa\u2019s land, including 45,000 acres at Piako.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EOver the course of the 20th century, almost all of Ng\u0101ti Paoa\u2019s remaining land was alienated to private purchasers and the Crown. Some land was taken under the Public Works Act. Those public work takings sometimes resulted in the destruction of p\u0101 and w\u0101hi tapu. In 1908, the Crown authorised a project to drain and develop the Hauraki wetlands. Over the following decades, the Crown altered the waterways, drowned the wetlands, and changed the course of the Waihou and Piako rivers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EBy the end of the 20th century, only 27 percent of Ng\u0101ti Paoa spoke te reo M\u0101ori. The decline of Ng\u0101ti Paoa tribal structures and the loss of te reo M\u0101ori contributed to a loss of Ng\u0101ti Paoa m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori. In the 20th and 21st centuries, Ng\u0101ti Paoa generally experienced poorer health, including lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality. Ng\u0101ti Paoa also experienced higher unemployment than the general population, and a lower median annual income.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThis bill cannot solve all of those things that have happened in the past. What it can do, though, is return to Ng\u0101ti Paoa the relationship between Ng\u0101ti Paoa and the Crown, which is incredibly important; return to them the acknowledgment of their mana; and return a future for their children and those who come after, who we all want to have a better life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EI do acknowledge there have been some who have contacted me, and others, with some concerns about this bill. They will have an opportunity at the select committee hearing to voice those concerns and they will be given a fair hearing at that point. So with that, I support this bill at this first reading, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022df4ff8fbd51c4f1592511456a0544450\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df4ff8fbd51c4f1592511456a0544450\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Tuia ki te rangi, tuia ki te papa, tuia te ira atua, te ira tangata. Ka rongo te p\u014D, ka rongo te ao, Paoa ki uta, Paoa ki tai. Kia pono, kia tika, kia aroha, kia tau iho mai ng\u0101 manaakitanga ki runga i a t\u0101tou. Haumi e, hui e, t\u0101iki e. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Ng\u0101 mihi mahana ki a koutou, ng\u0101 uri o Ng\u0101ti Paoa i te Whare, te Whare o t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E[Bind the heavens and the earth, bind divinity and humanity. It is heard by night and by day, Paoa on the land, Paoa at sea. Be honest, be fair, be compassionate, so that we are safe and protected. It coalesces, it comes together, it is done. Greetings to all of you. Warm regard to you, the descendants of Ng\u0101ti Paoa in the House, this House of ours.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt is my privilege to stand and to mihi to Ng\u0101ti Paoa, who are in the gallery today, as the chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. It is that committee that will begin this important process of examining this bill, of hearing from submitters about their concerns around it and about the specific parts of it which give effect to the Ng\u0101ti Paoa settlement deed, but most of all\u2014and the privilege of being a member of that committee\u2014hearing about the aspirations and the hopes of generations to come of Ng\u0101ti Paoa who will benefit from this settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI began with that takutaku, which acknowledges first the canoe of Ng\u0101ti Paoa, Te Kot\u016Biti. It provides the conceptual framework for the deed of settlement which this legislation gives effect to, and it\u2019s been a long time coming. These negotiations have been going on for many, many years, and before that they have a complex history, which always should have been acknowledged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EAs an Aucklander, may I say that I am glad that we have a piece of legislation here which acknowledges the complexity, the overlapping interests, and the depth of history in T\u0101maki-makau-rau and those other regions that Ng\u0101ti Paoa has an interest in. I look forward to examining those interests in the committee, as my colleague Joseph Mooney across the House has alluded to. But for today, can we say that those interests that Ng\u0101ti Paoa has in T\u0101maki-makau-rau needed always to be acknowledged by the Crown, and in this piece of legislation they are given their mana and they are given acknowledgment, and in the shared history that will become law, may we acknowledge those associations that your t\u016Bpuna have had with our whenua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge some of the people who have been involved in this. The Minister was right to first acknowledge Morehu Wilson, the negotiator who, very sadly, we lost before the passing of this legislation. Can I also acknowledge others who have contributed much to this work, including Hauaru Rawiri\u2014thank you for your contribution. It is a contribution that will be felt by generations of not only your uri but those who live in Auckland, in Tauranga, and in the islands who will benefit from the contribution to public life that Ng\u0101ti Paoa has to give.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ECan I also acknowledge the newly elected trustees since September 2022, and I will name you: chair Herearoha Francis Skipper, deputy chair Mihingarangi Forbes\u2014kia ora k\u014Drua\u2014and councillors Kerrin Leone, James Ratahi, Tania Tarawa, Tui Tawera, and Mystique Townsend. What an all-star cast of governors who have been elected to the trust board, and can I say that I look forward to watching Ng\u0101ti Paoa\u2019s developments that come from the ability, with this settlement legislation, to develop those regional relationships that you need to advance the interests of the iwi within the North Island. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMay I also offer congratulations for the developments and the new office in Panmure \u014D Mokoia, where on that whenua, in 1780, the chiefs Te Putu, Ngaro ki te Uru, Rongomaurikura, and Nohowaka established themselves on the T\u0101maki River. Those are important sites for all Aucklanders, but it seems just and right to me that Ng\u0101ti Paoa should have a base there in which to conduct its operations in Auckland. All Aucklanders can be proud of that and proud of the achievements that are to come from the office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI wanted also to touch on, for the House\u2019s interest, the settlement negotiation history that it has taken to come to this point. My colleague Joseph Mooney began by talking about June 2009, when the Crown proposed a regional approach to Treaty settlements in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, but, as you all know, the work has gone on for much longer than that. When we look back on the recent history of Treaty settlement development and Treaty jurisprudence, Ng\u0101ti Paoa has had a huge role in developing our law and the way that the Crown should progress Treaty settlements as a good and honest partner. In 2009, that agreement by the Crown to progress a collective settlement came out of many years of Marut\u016B\u0101hu, of nga iwi o Hauraki, and many others who have an interest in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, coming together and asking the Crown to consider how it dealt with whenua and not just commercial redress but cultural redress that goes along with it when many iwi have an interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ET\u0101maki-makau-rau has always been the precious jewel in Aotearoa. As a proud South Aucklander, I can say it is the best whenua. It is the whenua that our t\u016Bpuna wanted us to occupy, and yours did, around many different places around the rohe, as did many other iwi and t\u016Bpuna who have been recognised there for many, many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to acknowledge that when the Crown approached those settlements that it was considering in the early 2000s, it had a very different approach to how it would do collective redress, how it would do negotiations with smaller iwi, and how it would get those voices of the people who would largely benefit from the settlements to the table. The Minister reflected upon this very recently in his Estimates hearings, which my colleagues on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee were privileged to be a part of. He said that he was the beneficiary of many years of jurisprudence that has led a different way of Crown engagement, and that that T\u0101maki collective redress process, which at the time drove division within iwi, has contributed to a different kind of approach from Te Arawhiti. The approach now that we see is a crossing of the bridge between the Crown and M\u0101ori. I am proud of the work that Te Arawhiti does today, and much of that is informed by the way that in those years iwi like Ng\u0101ti Paoa came to the table and said that it\u2019s not good enough to advance only an outcome, but we have to do the process right. So thank you for the contribution that Ng\u0101ti Paoa has made to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI want to finish by saying there are many, many parts of this settlement which are important to the House, but I will pick just one. In the 1920s, Awataha urup\u0101 was occupied by a small number of Ng\u0101ti Paoa members\u2014that\u2019s on the North Shore of Auckland\u2014and it was a place that the Crown saw as suitable for an arrangement with the Roman Catholic Church for education purposes. In 1924, a dispute arose over the land and in March 1925, seven members of the iwi were arrested and imprisoned in Mt Eden jail. Later, the Crown decided to acquire a section of that land for an oil storage facility, and the poet Hone Tuwhare\u2014who was a good friend of my father\u2014wrote this poem to acknowledge the disgust and the hurt that he felt in seeing the disinterment of that urup\u0101 and the removal of the bodies to make way for development by the Crown, in his lifetime. He wrote,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIn a splendid sheath \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Eof polished wood and glass \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Ewith shiny appurtenances \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Elay he fitly blue-knuckled and serene: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Ehurry rain and trail him \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Eto the bottom of the grave \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EFlowers beyond budding \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Ewill not soften the gravel\u2019s beat \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Eof solemn words\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Eand hard sod thudding: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Ehurry rain and trail him \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Eto the bottom of the grave \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThrough a broken window \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Einanely looks he up; \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Ehis face glass-gouged and bloodless \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Ehis mouth engorging clay \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Efor all the world uncaring \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ECover him quickly, earth! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ELet the inexorable seep of rain \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003Efinger his greening bones, deftly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThose moments in our history where we acknowledge that the Crown has done wrong are important in our history as New Zealanders, as we understand the way that we can do better now. That was a poem from 1960. These things aren\u2019t ancient history for us, and it\u2019s important for this House, when we acknowledge the hara, the mamae, that people of Ng\u0101ti Paoa today still feel and the atonement that we can all make for those, that they are real and present in people\u2019s minds, just like that poem. T\u0113n\u0101 tatou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5c7c15d0b5643beb07cbae47a934844\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5c7c15d0b5643beb07cbae47a934844\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. What a pleasure and a privilege it is to welcome representatives of Ng\u0101ti Paoa, who have travelled a long distance here to the Parliament to experience and witness the first reading of this special piece of legislation that has been so long in getting to this place. I want to set the record straight at the outset; usually, when we have Treaty settlement debates, there is consensus across the House, but the last speaker, Arena Williams, got it wrong\u2014she got it very wrong, and as the member of Parliament for Coromandel I need to say that the very best part of the Ng\u0101ti Paoa rohe is actually on the Firth of Thames, in the fine part of the Coromandel electorate. So, wearing that hat as the member of Parliament for Coromandel, I welcome you once, twice, thrice to this place. It\u2019s an important and historic day for you all no matter which part of the rohe you consider to be the best part of the rohe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThis has been a long journey, and I regret to advise there are actually still several steps yet to go. But the first reading of a Treaty bill is an important marker, because it brings to this House, the House that represents the Crown as Treaty partner, a process that will now go to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, and you\u2019ve just heard from the select committee chair. So the issues, the history, the mana, and the drama that is both historic, current, and aspirational for the future will be debated and discussed in detail by the members of that committee, and that\u2019s a good and appropriate process. It\u2019s a slower process than I think any of us would want, but it\u2019s an important part of the process because that\u2019s where we get to open up to the issues that still confront some members of the Ng\u0101ti Paoa wh\u0101nau that still are unresolved, that still are the cause of some angst and do need further discussion and further resolution. So I know that my colleagues who sit on that select committee will be listening carefully and will be wanting to hear debate, discussion, and history about what has happened and how it\u2019s happened and where it\u2019s gone and, what\u2019s more important, where it is going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EEven as recently as today, I\u2019ve received correspondence\u2014as my colleague Joseph Mooney has indicated\u2014from people wanting to litigate and to discuss and to debate the issues that are outstanding. Well, those issues will be debated and discussed and they will be, I hope, resolved satisfactorily, because it\u2019s important that after so long and after such a long journey that this piece of legislation gets passed by this House and, I would hope, sooner rather than later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI well recall as a relatively new MP visiting the Mangatarata volunteer fire brigade. It wasn\u2019t the fire brigade, it was just a public meeting that happened to be held in the fire brigade building, so what I\u2019m about to say was not reflective of the fire brigade, let me assure you of that; those volunteers do a particularly good job for our community. But there was a public meeting in the brigade station house and there was public concern that I needed to hear because I had been invited as the member of Parliament because there had been a decision by, I think, the Geographic Board to allow the name P\u016Bkorokoro to be used instead of Miranda. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EThere were some people in the local community who were upset by that decision and said, \u201CWhy is that so? It\u2019s always been called Miranda. Why can\u2019t we keep calling it Miranda?\u201D, and it wasn\u2019t until I was able to describe to some of those people present who felt somehow uncomfortable and awkward about the use of the term and the name P\u016Bkorokoro rather than Miranda, and to explain the history of that and to explain the history of the terrible act that was inflicted upon Ng\u0101ti Paoa people at P\u016Bkorokoro, at the p\u0101, at the marae, by HMS Miranda, where a vessel of the Crown, of the Royal Navy, came into the Firth of Thames and then fired cannon into the marae and into the p\u0101. There was death, there was desecration, and there was harm and damage that was done, and then they had the audacity to sail away having inflicted that terrible crime, to sail away then and rename that area Miranda in the name of that vessel. That was wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo today I often, and whenever I can, proudly use the term P\u016Bkorokoro, because those of us that know that history and who did not know that history until relatively recent times need to understand that that is just one\u2014just one of the issues that can\u2019t be put right completely, but through a process of a Treaty settlement, legislative action will, I hope, bring at least some cause for reflection and some cause for an ability to move on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo acknowledging that there are still some unresolved issues, but acknowledging also that this has been a long journey, not today just physically but it\u2019s been a long journey emotionally and it\u2019s been a long journey historically. Some of those people that embarked on that journey so long ago are no longer with us, and as other speakers and colleagues around the House have acknowledged, I wish also to acknowledge their passing and their contribution to getting us to where we are today. But there\u2019s still more work to do. We still have some way to go. There are still steps to be taken, and I know that today marks an important and historic step along that pathway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s with very great pleasure that as the member of Parliament for the best part of the rohe of Ng\u0101ti Paoa, I welcome representatives here today, wish you well, safe travels home, but be very proud of the fact that you are here for this auspicious, historic, momentous proceeding in this Parliament. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00226fe5e4fe9940411c8b4eb8d810023a0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fe5e4fe9940411c8b4eb8d810023a0c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Simpson, for that great speech. Maybe now you can support the bilingual signs strategy that we all talked about and that you forgot about two weeks ago\u2014engari, that\u2019s probably not in the spirit of the occasion. But I probably could go on about your nonsense in terms of health also, but I might leave that for my mate Rawiri Waititi over there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EEngari e mihi ana ki a koutou, Ng\u0101ti Paoa, i tae mai nei ki te whakarangatira i a m\u0101tou i t\u0113nei w\u0101. Rawe! Rawe ki te kite i a koutou. Mihi nui ki a koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[But I acknowledge you, Ng\u0101ti Paoa, who have arrived here to honour us at this time. Awesome! Awesome to see you. Many thanks to you.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ELovely to have you all here today, and my apologies for missing the p\u014D\u2019hiri and the whakatau. You\u2019ve already heard some of the statistics and some of the background. I only want to take a short call, because I\u2019ll talk more in the second and third readings, but I do want to acknowledge some of the k\u014Drero that apparently was put out earlier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EApparently, one of the koroua said that this is only peanuts in terms of a settlement. That will be true\u2014that will be true\u2014and the reality is, and I talk about this quite often, our people are put into a real bind during the Treaty settlement process. When it was first put in place, as we will remember, back around 1995, I recall our mate T\u0101me Iti and the protests that were going on with regards to whether the settlements really reflected a justice in terms of the loss in terms of M\u0101ori. As we all knew then, we were clear that the settlements would not be, because $1 billion was the figure put on the table, and we knew that could never reflect the loss. So, to our koroua who said it\u2019s about peanuts, that would be true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBut, despite that, we had learned koroua like T\u0101 Tipene and T\u0101 Robert Mahuta, who knew there wasn\u2019t much choice\u2014you know, you either take the deal or you get nothing. If you look back at where they were at, it was $170 million on the table even though the loss was $15 billion to $18 billion in terms of Tainui and Ng\u0101i Tahu. That was the actual loss\u2014$15 billion to $18 billion. Those rangatira, I think, as we all know, thought, \u201CWell, you take the money or you get nothing.\u201D They took the money, and look where those two tribes are today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a bind for us as a people, because the Crown comes to the table with all the negotiating power and our people are in a bind. We\u2019ve got our wh\u0101nau\u2014my own wh\u0101nau\u2014who said, \u201CNo, no, no, you don\u2019t settle.\u201D Then you get our pragmatists and our other rangatira, like T\u0101 Robert and T\u0101 Tipene, who said, \u201CNo, we have to get on with this. We have to make a start.\u201D, and look where Tainui and Ng\u0101i Tahu are today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo, yeah, no, M\u0101oridom is used to settling on peanuts\u2014that\u2019s the reality. That\u2019s how those tribes became so fantastic today. That\u2019s why k\u014Dhanga reo is strong. That\u2019s why iwi radio is strong. That\u2019s why Whakaata M\u0101ori is strong. It\u2019s just the reality\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc21b1b47ccd4a9586f6f51f9b797d4e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Jackson, if you could now be strong on the bill, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276eb396e8f134debbb7ff7dd99d82c17\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s all part of the bill, Mr Speaker\u2014that\u2019s all part of the bill\u2014and what I am trying to say to our people up here is learn the lessons of what happened in the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s come to the bill, and let\u2019s also realise the amount of problems that the tribe had to go through, with Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua opposing this tribe, to start off with. I remember well R\u0113nata Blair opposing this\u2014Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua have got to have everything, you know, and it was good that things were worked out. Things all worked out, because other people have interests, as this group do, and in the end we saw those two groups coming together and forging a strategy going forward. So I am pleased that that was worked out with Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s opposing groups, and then, of course, we have to deal with our whanaunga within the tribe, which I think is going on now. Again, that\u2019s the flaw with our Treaty settlement process, but until we have something else, we have to forge on with what we\u2019ve got.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I mihi to all the whanaunga who have come here today to tautoko this kaupapa, even though they might not be ecstatic about it. It\u2019s $23 million, and I\u2019m sure that they can build on that but\u2014even more importantly\u2014work with their own to find a way and find a rautaki, find a strategy, where people can work out where they\u2019re going, how they can contribute, and how everybody can be part of the settlement going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThose are a lot of challenges in front of our group today, and I\u2019m looking forward to following up on this and to seeing whether we\u2019re being fair as a partner, in terms of this kaupapa. I want to work alongside Andrew Little to make sure that we fulfil some of our obligations. So mihi nui ki a koutou. Good to see you all here today. T\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d142f1c3207841a59d4ee76a266faa47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d142f1c3207841a59d4ee76a266faa47\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I stand on behalf of the ACT Party to speak to the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Claims Settlement Bill, standing in support of the deed of settlement reached on 20 March 2021 between Ng\u0101ti Paoa and the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge at the beginning of my speech the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Treaty settlement negotiators Morehu Wilson, who I understand tragically passed away two years ago; his wife, Louise Wilson, who is in the gallery representing him and the wh\u0101nau; Te Hauaru Rawiri, who may also be in the gallery today; and the current Ng\u0101ti Paoa Iwi Trust chair, Herearoha Francis Skipper, and deputy chair Mihingarangi Forbes. I also acknowledge the representative body for Ng\u0101ti Paoa in the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Iwi Trust, who are here today in Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Paoa are a maritime people, a waka people, whose customary territory is connected more by water than by land. Their rohe runs from Te Hoe o Tainui near the Piako River, as it runs northwards through the Hauraki Plains to Wharekawa and Kaiaua on the western firth of the Thames to Kawakawa Bay, north of the Hunua Ranges and the nearby Waiheke and Ponui islands. Ng\u0101ti Paoa occupied the lands around the T\u0101maki estuary and Auckland; in particular, an area from Panmure to K\u014Dhimarama. They also had lands on the North Shore and up the Mahurangi Coast, including at Tiritiri M\u0101tangi Island, all connected by water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Paoa chiefs signed the Treaty of Waitangi on 4 March 1840. Immediately afterwards, Ng\u0101ti Paoa engaged closely with the new Government, which was established in Auckland in 1841. Like other Auckland iwi such as Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua, Ng\u0101ti Paoa transacted lands which allowed for European settlement and ultimately the growth of Auckland as a city. However, the Crown failed to set aside sufficient reserves for Ng\u0101ti Paoa, which in time made it very difficult for iwi to maintain a physical presence in the growing city. Later, during the New Zealand Wars of the 1860s, Ng\u0101ti Paoa had lands confiscated both in the Hunua Ranges and as part of the Waikato confiscation. One notable event during the war was the naval bombardment and attack on a Ng\u0101ti Paoa village at P\u016Bkorokoro, situated at the south-west coast of the Firth of Thames. After they landed, colonial forces built a redoubt there and named it Miranda after the naval vessel. In time, the name Miranda stuck. It is certainly fitting that in 2015 the New Zealand Geographic Board recommended a change to dualise the name to P\u016Bkorokoro/Miranda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAll Treaty settlements do have a unique aspect to them, reflecting the negotiation priorities of the iwi, the specific nature of the grievances, and what the Crown is able to offer. For Ng\u0101ti Paoa, I\u2019m told that the standout feature of the settlement is the provision of cultural redress of land for a marae and papa k\u0101inga at Point England on the T\u0101maki River. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAs I said, Ng\u0101ti Paoa transacted lands with the Crown after signing the Treaty in 1841, but no reserves were created for them and their physical presence as part of the growing city of Auckland was largely denied. This redress allows Ng\u0101ti Paoa to re-establish themselves as an active part of the Auckland community today, and there will also be a benefit of increased housing supply, which we all know is much needed. The settlement includes other cultural redress that helps reconnect Ng\u0101ti Paoa with their wider customary territory, including the transfer of lands at Kaiaua, Waiheke Island, and Tiritiri M\u0101tangi Island. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EImportantly, the settlement includes an apology from the Crown for its failure to protect Ng\u0101ti Paoa from the rapid alienation from their land in the decades following the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi\u2014an apology for the loss of life and the devastation that was caused by hostilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ECommercial aspects of the settlement should provide opportunities for Ng\u0101ti Paoa to grow their financial position. They will have returned to them 12 culturally significant sites, along with financial and commercial redress valued at $23.5 million. There will also be a wide range of other commercial, cultural, and relationship items making up the redress package. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI understand that 90 percent of those who voted for this deed of settlement from Ng\u0101ti Paoa voted in support. They may still be some issues. ACT\u2019s hope is that any unresolved issues are addressed during the select committee process, which will begin after this first reading is completed. And with that in mind, ACT supports the first reading of the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Claims Settlement bill and wish our wh\u0101nau all the best in getting this redress sorted. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6b680652e5049fdabe4f9bc36678b92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6b680652e5049fdabe4f9bc36678b92\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I begin by also correcting the record, like many MPs around the House. Yes, Coromandel is beautiful and there are beautiful places in T\u0101maki-makau-rau\u2014but Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick assures me that the most beautiful place within the Ng\u0101ti Paoa rohe is the mighty Waiheke Island. I just wanted to place that on the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Paoa ki uta, Ng\u0101ti Paoa ki tai, nau mai, haere mai. Nau mai, haere mai ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 Whare. T\u0101ku nei he t\u0101piri atu ki ng\u0101 whakatau o te mana whenua i whakatau i a koutou i t\u0113nei r\u0101. Nau mai me \u014D wawata, nau mai me \u014D k\u014Drero ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 Whare P\u0101remata. Ko au an\u014D t\u0113nei e t\u016B ana me te k\u014Drero m\u014D te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki. He mema hoki au n\u014D te Komiti Whiringa Take M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira \u0101 t\u014Dna w\u0101 ka haere mai koutou ki waenganui i a m\u0101tou ki te k\u014Drero, ki te tuku i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero h\u012Btori, ng\u0101 k\u014Drero whakawhanake i \u0101 koutou n\u0101 kaupapa. N\u014D reira e mihi ana.\u00A0\u00A0\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EE mihi ana ki a r\u0101tou m\u0101 kua roa te w\u0101 i p\u012Bkauhia t\u0113nei kaupapa. N\u014D reira e tautoko katoa i ng\u0101 mihi ki a Morehu Wilson, otir\u0101 ki t\u014Dna wh\u0101nau ki konei. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ER\u0101tou ki a r\u0101tou, otir\u0101 koutou an\u014D i whakakanohi i \u014D r\u0101tou nei manako i t\u0113nei r\u0101, ka mihi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EE mihi atu hoki ki ng\u0101 tiamana hou o poari: Herearoha, Mihing\u0101rangi, t\u014D tiamana tuarua. E mihi ana ki t\u014D koutou nei ng\u0101kau m\u014D te whakawhanake i t\u014D iwi, otir\u0101 ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga i h\u0101paitia, ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga o te taiao.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EMe mihi au ki ng\u0101 hononga huhua o Ng\u0101ti Paoa, ng\u0101 piringa ki a Marutuahu, ng\u0101 piringa ki a te Arawa waka, otir\u0101 ki a koutou e whakapapa ana ki te p\u016B o Waikato, ki a Tainui. E te P\u012Bka, i te w\u0101 o te whakatau i haere mai t\u014D r\u0101tou nei kaik\u014Drero me te mea atu he tuakana-teina a Paoa me Mahuta. Heoi, t\u0113n\u0101 pea he whakaaro an\u014D t\u014D Minita Nanaia Mahuta, heoi an\u014D n\u0101 koutou an\u014D t\u0113nei pire n\u014D reira m\u0101tou ng\u0101 K\u0101k\u0101riki e mihi tuakana atu ki a koutou i t\u0113nei r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EKo t\u014D r\u0101tou nei whakapapa kei waenganui i ng\u0101 rohe o Waikato, T\u012Bkapa Moana, ng\u0101 whenua whakatipu o te iwi e torotoro atu ai i te pito uru o ng\u0101 m\u0101nia o Hauraki, tae atu ki T\u0101maki-makau-rau. I n\u014Dhia an\u014D e Ng\u0101ti Paoa \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 moutere o T\u012Bkapa p\u0113nei i a Waiheke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI a au e p\u0101nui ana i te pire, i kite au i te maha hoki o ng\u0101 raru, ng\u0101 ngau kino n\u0101 te raupatu o te whenua, te haere o ng\u0101 p\u016B, ng\u0101 h\u014Dia o ng\u0101 P\u0101keh\u0101 i t\u0113r\u0101 atu n\u0101 rautau. Kua raupapahia te katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI te tau o te hainatanga o te Tiriti o Waitangi, ko \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 rangatira o Ng\u0101ti Paoa i haere ki T\u0101maki ki te haina i te Tiriti. E ai ki te k\u014Drero, he iwi whakarite m\u0101ra, he iwi tauhokohoko, \u0101hei r\u0101tou ki te hari i \u014D r\u0101tou nei umanga ki te t\u0101one ki te hoko atu i \u0101 r\u0101tou nei huawhenua ki ng\u0101 P\u0101keh\u0101 ki T\u0101maki. N\u014D reira e mihi ana ki t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga.\u00A0\u00A0\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D kua kaha tau te kino ki runga i a r\u0101tou n\u0101 ng\u0101 pakanga whenua, n\u014D reira e mihi ana ki ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga, ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i tukuna mai, ng\u0101 p\u014Duri, ng\u0101 ngau kino ki P\u016Bkorokoro. K\u0101ore au i te m\u014Dhio kei reira tonu taua ingoa, ko te Miranda, n\u0101 tana hara atu ki a koutou, heoi an\u014D me mihi atu ki t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 h\u012Btori hei oranga an\u014D o te katoa, \u0101 t\u0101tou tamariki mokopuna, otir\u0101 m\u014D te katoa e noho ana ki Aotearoa nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EKi roto i ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga an\u014D, i t\u0101hae whenua an\u014D ki P\u014Dkeno me te r\u0101whiti o Wairoa i \u0113r\u0101 atu o ng\u0101 w\u0101. I whai p\u0101nga a Ng\u0101ti Paoa ki te poraka raupatu i te r\u0101whiti o Wairoa. E ai ki te k\u014Drero, nui atu i te 50,000 eka te rahi, me te rohe raupatu ki te pokap\u016B o Waikato. Kei roto hoki a Maramarua me P\u016Bkorokoro. \u0112nei whenua raupatu a Kohukohunui me Rataroa, ng\u0101 maunga tapu o Ng\u0101ti Paoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EHaere te w\u0101, i p\u0101nuihia \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga o te Karauna an\u014D, i te mea i tae ng\u0101 pakanga ki roto o Tauranga Moana. He w\u0101hi an\u014D t\u014D Ng\u0101ti Paoa ki roto i Tauranga Moana, n\u014D reira kei reira an\u014D t\u0113tahi mea e ngau kino ana te iwi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI te roanga atu o te rautau 20 i hokona atu tata ki te katoa o ng\u0101 whenua e toe ana ki a Ng\u0101ti Paoa ki ng\u0101 kaihoko tauiwi, ki ng\u0101 kaikaunihera \u0101-rohe me te Karauna i raro i te Ture Mahi T\u016Bmatanui, e k\u012Bia nei e te P\u0101keh\u0101 ko te Public Works Act. Ia te w\u0101 i haere au ki te t\u016B m\u014D te k\u014Drero m\u014D \u0113nei momo pire, ka kaha puta mai t\u0113r\u0101 ture, te Public Works Act. \u0112tahi w\u0101 i haramai te Karauna me te t\u0101hae me \u0101 r\u0101tou nei p\u016B i te whenua o te M\u0101ori, \u0101, \u0113tahi w\u0101 i haere mai me te ture, ng\u0101 ture p\u0113r\u0101 i te Public Works Act. N\u014D reira me m\u014Dhio mai t\u0101tou ko t\u0113r\u0101 ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga i tau ki a Ng\u0101ti Paoa an\u014D hoki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EKi roto i te pire ko \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i rangona ki roto o \u0113tahi atu o ng\u0101 whakatau ker\u0113me, ko te ngaro haere o te reo, te ngaro haere o ng\u0101 m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori, me te whakaaro ake an\u014D hoki me kaha t\u0101tou ki te whakarauora i te reo, me kaha t\u0101tou ki te whakarauora i t\u014D t\u0101tou nei m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori i te mea kei te noho t\u0101tou, m\u014D t\u0101tou ng\u0101 K\u0101k\u0101riki, ki roto i te horopaki o ng\u0101 p\u014Draru o te \u0101huarangi, ng\u0101 p\u014Draru o te matemate haere o ng\u0101 tini koiora o te moana, n\u014D reira me kaha t\u0101tou katoa ki te hoki an\u014D ki te whakat\u014D an\u014D i t\u0113r\u0101 m\u0101tauranga, \u0101-reo mai, \u0101-m\u0101tauranga mai. N\u014D reira ka mihi atu au ki t\u0113r\u0101 w\u0101hanga ki roto ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EKi t\u014D m\u0101tou nei, K\u0101k\u0101riki, t\u0113nei mea te Tiriti o Waitangi ehara i te kirimana. Ehara i te kirimana, ehara i te kirimana noa, he kawenata. He kawenata i t\u016B\u0101papa kia \u0101hei te katoa e noho ana ki runga i te pae ki te ora ki Aotearoa nei. N\u014D reira t\u0113 taea te k\u012B atu kua settled k\u0113 t\u0113nei, te Tiriti noa. He w\u0101hanga an\u014D ka taea e t\u0101tou te w\u0101nanga i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, ki te matapaki i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero. N\u014D reira ahakoa ng\u0101 aupiki me ng\u0101 auheke, i a au e p\u0101nui ana i t\u0113nei pire, he maha hoki ng\u0101 auheke, \u0101, ko t\u0113tahi mea i kite au ki roto i ng\u0101 tukanga whakatau ker\u0113me ko ng\u0101 h\u012Btori, ko ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e \u0101hei ana ki te tuku iho ki \u0101 t\u0101tou nei tamariki, ki \u0101 t\u0101tou nei mokopuna. \u0112tahi w\u0101 ka tae t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero tuku iho ki te P\u0101keh\u0101, n\u014D reira e mihi atu ki a koe, me te whakaaro atu i pup\u016B ake te m\u0101ramatanga ki ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga ki P\u016Bkorokoro. He aha te take i tapaina ai t\u0113r\u0101 ingoa, Miranda, ki runga i t\u0113r\u0101 whenua? He oranga t\u0113r\u0101 m\u014D t\u0101tou katoa, t\u0113nei mea te m\u014Dhio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EKi a m\u0101tou nei, ki a m\u0101tou ng\u0101 K\u0101k\u0101riki, he pai t\u0113nei mea te w\u0101nanga, he pai t\u0113nei mea te matapaki k\u014Drero. He pai an\u014D t\u0113nei mea te taupatupatu k\u014Drero. M\u014Dhio t\u0101tou te M\u0101ori, ko t\u0113r\u0101 te \u0101hua o t\u014D t\u0101tou nei marae.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EKi roto i ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 Whiringa Take M\u0101ori, haere mai. Nau mai, haere mai me \u014D koutou nei k\u014Drero. N\u0101, m\u0101tou ng\u0101 mema o t\u0113r\u0101 komiti, t\u0101 m\u0101tou mahi ko te areare o ng\u0101 taringa ki te whakarongo, me p\u0113hea kia paku nuku, neke ng\u0101 waeture, ng\u0101 ture, he aha r\u0101nei ki roto i te pire kia tau ng\u0101 \u0101huatanga katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EK\u0101re e kore he nui ng\u0101 k\u014Drero n\u0101 reira ka t\u0101pui a Chl\u00F6e \u0113tahi w\u0101, ka haere mai \u0113tahi o koutou n\u014D Waiheke. T\u0113n\u0101 pea ko ia t\u014D m\u0101tou nei kanohi o \u0113r\u0101 n\u0101 w\u0101hanga o te Komiti Whiringa Take M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D, koia an\u014D m\u0101tou ng\u0101 K\u0101k\u0101riki, e haere mai ana i runga i te tautoko, i runga i te whakarongo ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, n\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koe, otir\u0101 Ng\u0101ti Paoa. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, otir\u0101 t\u014D t\u0101tou nei Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E[Ng\u0101ti inland, Ng\u0101ti Paoa to sea, welcome, welcome. Welcome to this one of our Houses. I\u2019d like to add the welcome of the people of this land who welcomed you today. Welcome with your aspirations, welcome with your comments to this House of Parliament. I stand here again to speak on behalf of the Green Party. I am also a member of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. So at a future time you will come among us to speak, to share your historical narratives, your stories of development of your own initiatives. So I acknowledge you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI acknowledge those who have long carried this enterprise. So I absolutely support the acknowledgements of Morehu Wilson\u2014indeed, his family that are here. Greetings to all of you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EMay they rest in peace, indeed you who represent their hopes today, greetings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the new chairpersons of the board: Herearoha, Mihing\u0101rangi, your deputy chair. I acknowledge your heart for developing your people, indeed that aspects that were promoted, the aspects of the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe many connections of Ng\u0101ti Paoa should be acknowledged, the relationship with Marutuahu, the relationships with the Arawa canoe, indeed you who have genealogical ties to the centre of Waikato, to Tainui. Mr Speaker, at the time of settlement their representative came and said that Paoa and Mahuta are senior and junior siblings. However, perhaps Minister Nanaia Mahuta has a different opinion, but this is your bill, so we, the Greens, greet you as the senior sibling today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ETheir genealogical ties within the regions of Waikato, Hauraki Gulf, and the lands where they are raised, stretch from the western end of the Hauraki plains, all the way to Auckland. Some of the islands in Hauraki Gulf were also settled by Ng\u0101ti Paoa, including Waiheke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EAs I read the bill, I saw the magnitude of issues, the anguish caused by the confiscation of the land, the expeditions of the guns, the soldiers of the British settlers during that century. It has all been documented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EIn the year that the Treaty of Waitangi was signed, some of the leaders of Ng\u0101ti Paoa went to Auckland to sign the Treaty. According to the narrative, they were a gardening people, a commercial iwi, they were able to take their businesses into town to sell their produce to the settlers in Auckland. So I acknowledge that feature.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EHowever much wrong doing was done to them due to the land wars, so I acknowledge that phenomenon, the narratives that were given, the sadness, the anguish at P\u016Bkorokoro. I don\u2019t know why that name is still there, Miranda, because of his sin to you, however it is appropriate to acknowledge that part of the histories for the benefit of everyone, our children and grandchildren, indeed for everyone who lives here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWithin these circumstances, more land was taken at P\u014Dkeno and the east of Wairoa at that time. Ng\u0101ti Paoa had interests in the confiscation block in the east of Wairoa. According to the narrative, it was more than 50,000 acres in size, as well as the confiscation block in central Waikato. This also includes Maramarua and P\u016Bkorokoro. These confiscation lands of Kohukohunui and Rataroa, the sacred mountains of Ng\u0101ti Paoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EOver time, I read of some of the characteristics of the Crown, because war came into Tauranga Moana. Ng\u0101ti Paoa also have places within Tauranga Moana, so that is another source of anguish for the people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EFor the duration of the 20th century, almost all of the lands that remained to Ng\u0101ti Paoa were sold to foreign buyers, to regional councillors and the Crown under the Ture Mahi T\u016Bmatanui, known by P\u0101keh\u0101 as the Public Works Act. Every time I went to stand and speak about this kind of bill, that legislation features, the Public Works Act. Sometimes the Crown came with their firearms to take the land of the M\u0101ori people, and sometimes it came with legislation, laws such as the Public Works Act. So we need to be aware of that phenomenon that befell Ng\u0101ti Paoa too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EIn the bill are some statements that are heard within other claims settlements, the loss of the language, the loss of traditional M\u0101ori knowledge, and the idea that we should work hard to revitalise the language, we should work hard to revitalise our traditional M\u0101ori knowledge because we are situated, we the Greens, within the context of climate issues, and issues with the loss of biodiversity in the ocean, and so we should all return to planting that knowledge, both linguistic and academic. So I acknowledge that section within this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ETo us, the Greens, the Treaty of Waitangi is not a contract. It is not a contract. It is not just a contract; it is a covenant. It is a covenant that is a foundation that enables everyone sitting on the land to live here in New Zealand. So it cannot be said that this is settled, the Treaty alone. That is something that we can all consider the information in, to deliberate on the information. So despite the ups and downs\u2014as I was reading this bill there were a lot of downs, and one thing that I saw during the claims settlement process was the histories, the narratives that can be passed down to our children, and to our grandchildren. Sometimes those narratives are passed on to P\u0101keh\u0101, so I acknowledge you, and the idea that the understanding bubbled up concerning the situation at P\u016Bkorokoro. What was that name, Miranda, given to that land? That is of benefit to all of this, this thing we call understanding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ETo us, to us the Greens, consideration is a good thing, discussion is a good thing. Debating is also a good thing. We know, the M\u0101ori people, that is how things go on our marae.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWithin the sphere of M\u0101ori Affairs, welcome. Welcome, welcome with your narratives. Now, we are the members of that committee; our job is to open our ears to listen how the regulations, the legislation, and whatever else can be moved and shifted so that all things can be settled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EWithout doubt there are many narratives, so Chl\u00F6e will book in some time, and some of you from Waiheke will come. Perhaps she will be our representative on some of those matters of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EHowever, we the Greens come in support, and to listen to the perspectives, so thank you, indeed, Ng\u0101ti Paoa. Thank you, indeed, our House. Thanks to all of us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u00222638d6df07224a8280b3d2bb51ef2f98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222638d6df07224a8280b3d2bb51ef2f98\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka o t\u0113nei Whare. T\u016Btawa mai i runga, t\u016Btawa mai i raro, t\u016Btawa mai i roto, t\u016Btawa mai i waho kia tau ai te mauri t\u016B, te mauri ora ki te katoa. Haumi e, hui e, t\u0101iki e. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EHe mihi t\u0113nei ki a koutou o Ng\u0101ti Paoa kua huihui mai nei i t\u0113nei r\u0101 ki te h\u0101pai i t\u0113nei kaupapa, i t\u0101 koutou kaupapa. Anei t\u0113tehi uri o Te \u0100tiawa, o te Arawa waka, o Te Aitanga a Hauiti e mihi atu nei ki a koutou. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, mauri ora ki a t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E[My thanks to the Speaker of this House. Materialise from above, from below, from within, and from the environment so that vitality and wellbeing settle upon everyone. Unified, connected, and bound together. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThis is an acknowledgment of you from Ng\u0101ti Paoa who have assembled here today to support this initiative, your initiative. Here is a descendant of Te \u0100tiawa, the Arawa canoe, and of Te Aitanga a Hauiti that greets you. Thanks, greetings, and wellbeing to all of us.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been thinking a lot, and things change in this House like you wouldn\u2019t believe. I\u2019ve been thinking a lot this week about the subject of race and the subject of ethnicity. It\u2019s been a hot topic. We have talked yesterday quite a bit in the media, and in our own conversations. Maybe some of our wh\u0101nau at home have been talking about the plight of M\u0101ori, actually, and whether or not the bad health statistics that we have are a result of us drinking too much, too much KFC, that kind of stuff. There is actually a demographic of the population out there that believe that it\u2019s true. They don\u2019t like hearing the uncomfortable truth about the history of Aotearoa\u2014the really uncomfortable truth that the Crown set up systems and structures and courts and laws to completely marginalise M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EFor that reason, it\u2019s really sad, because there\u2019s a whole demographic of New Zealanders out there that believe that M\u0101ori get too much. They think that M\u0101ori shouldn\u2019t be put to the front of the queue to be able to deal with health inequities. They believe that M\u0101ori should jump in the line when it comes to housing and all those things that Government here attempt to try and do for M\u0101ori. But, unfortunately, sometimes in this House, especially, things get politicised and it\u2019s kind of gross. It\u2019s kind of gross, because, actually, what happens is that these kinds of conversations end up being like political footballs. They get kicked around, and especially in these years, like election years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00224c81f10775904274b3524692134aac05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c81f10775904274b3524692134aac05\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Can we come back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be10153a986d415fa4afae647d2453cf\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, I am talking about the bill. I want to refer to page 11, actually, of the bill, which talks to Ng\u0101ti Paoa\u2019s plight. It says, in clause 8(8), \u201CBy the end of the twentieth century, only 27% of Ng\u0101ti Paoa spoke te reo M\u0101ori. The decline of Ng\u0101ti Paoa tribal structures and the loss of te reo M\u0101ori contributed to a loss of Ng\u0101ti Paoa m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori. In the twentieth and twenty-first centuries, Ng\u0101ti Paoa, like other Hauraki M\u0101ori, generally experienced poorer health, including lower life expectancy \u2026 higher infant mortality, than P\u0101keh\u0101 [as well]. Ng\u0101ti Paoa also experienced higher unemployment than the general population, and a lower median annual income.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really the point of all of this, because we heard in the whaik\u014Drero earlier from the koroua from Ng\u0101ti Paoa who got up and addressed the room, and he spoke of the fact that what we\u2019re talking about in terms of redress on this settlement is very, very small. Heck, there are houses in the plush parts of South Auckland and the Coromandel that cost as much as the settlement that you\u2019re going to get as a result of the Crown trying to address this past wrong\u2014there are. You know, again, it\u2019s an absolutely uncomfortable truth, but I want to acknowledge you for still, despite that, despite the history, despite the historical account that my colleague Joseph Mooney read out before, despite all of that, despite the Crown taking your land, you\u2019re still willing to go through this. You\u2019re still willing to go through this, because there\u2019s a sense of social justice that needs to take place in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EThe Crown, as represented by those of us in this House right now, we need to hear your story. It\u2019s lovely that it\u2019s written down here, and we need to talk about it a bit more, and we need New Zealanders to talk about it too, so that they have a deeper understanding of exactly what happened to Ng\u0101ti Paoa in the story of the history of Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003EI often say that, in this place, Treaty settlements are one thing, and when we finally get this out of the House and enable you to go on and start your journey post-settlement, I often ask myself, \u201CWhat more can we do? What more can we do over and above the quantum? Over and above that, what more can we do to be able to help iwi such as Ng\u0101ti Paoa to be able to achieve their tino rangatiratanga?\u201D To some of us, especially on this side, we believe that there are lots of opportunities, whether it\u2019s in housing or health or co-governance opportunities, that the Opposition get really freaked out about. But there are opportunities in that, none the less, and I hope that through that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224707be15b1174e2bafb96793042ba3c9\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Disgraceful, really.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe94a57add20498fa68fda9a2ad21bca\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014over and above\u2014my colleague down here, you just can\u2019t turn him off. But there are opportunities. There are opportunities that are coming up. As long as I\u2019m a Labour member, which isn\u2019t for that much longer, but as long as I\u2019m a member of the New Zealand Labour Party, actually I\u2019ll continue to ask that question: what more can we do post-settlement for our iwi to be able to achieve their own tino rangatiratanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003ESo I leave that today. I look forward to listening to some of the k\u014Drero. I too sit on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, at least for the next three months. Then I look forward to watching one day, maybe from home with my little boy and my little girl in my arms, watching the third reading of your bill through this House, turning it into an Act and allowing you to move forward so that you can create a better future for Ng\u0101ti Paoa tamariki mokopuna kei te heke mai. [the children and grandchildren of Ng\u0101ti Paoa of the future.] N\u014D reira ki a koutou ng\u0101 rangatira, ng\u0101 kuia, ng\u0101 kaum\u0101tua kua huihui mai nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E [So to you the leaders, the matriarchs, the patriarchs who have assembled here, my thanks and greetings to all of us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002291ef4d8b31e14b608dae2d7ff5198e1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291ef4d8b31e14b608dae2d7ff5198e1a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Tama Potaka\u2014a five-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u002272446832f6a146cbaa0547c8c53f7134\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272446832f6a146cbaa0547c8c53f7134\u0022\u003ETAMA POTAKA (National\u2014Hamilton West):\u003C/span\u003E Nau mai P\u016Banga, nau mai Matariki. Paoa ki uta Paoa ki tai ki Mahurangi ki \u014Cmaha. Ki te Waitemat\u0101 ki te T\u014Dangaroa ki Wai\u014Dt\u0101iki ki Te Pane o Horoiwi ki Taurere ki T\u0101oma ki Mauinaina ki Mokoia ki te puna o Mokoikahikuwaru ki te waipuna Rangi\u0101tea ki Ng\u0101 P\u014Dito o te K\u016Bpena a Taramainuku, h\u0101unga ko Motutapu t\u0113n\u0101 pea ka whakaiti a James Brown i ahau, kia \u0101ta haere. Heoi an\u014D ki Te \u0100rai Roa ki te Waiheke a Kahumatamomoe ki R\u0101t\u0101roa ki Te Pounui a Peret\u016B ki P\u0101kihi ki K\u0101ramuramu ki Kawakawa. Tat\u016B atu r\u0101 ki T\u0101whitokino ki \u014Crere ki P\u016Bkorokoro ki Wharekawa te Tara o te Ika tat\u016B atu r\u0101 ki Wait\u012B, Te Hoe o Tainui mai i Mahurangi ki te Hoe o Tainui, mai te T\u014Danga roa ki Moehau t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Nau mai ki t\u014D koutou Whare M\u012Bere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EE huri te kei o te waka ki \u014D koutou mate e kawe nei t\u014D koutou k\u0101k\u0101kura M\u014Drehu, te kaupoi r\u0101 a T\u012Bpene Kura me \u014D koutou ake ruak\u014Diwi i hainatia mai Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Ko Te H\u012Bnaki ko Hoete ko Hori P\u014Dkai Te Ruinga me \u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 k\u0101t\u016B rangatira o tuawhakarere o tuamanomano. Koutou i kawe mai i t\u0113r\u0101 kawenata tapu ki Wai\u0101rohe ki t\u0113nei Whare me t\u014D koutou nawe \u0101 t\u014Dna w\u0101 ka tau te k\u014Drero. Kei \u014Dku pikikotuku \u014Dku pikiamokura, Herearoha koutou ko ng\u0101 m\u0101reikura me ng\u0101 kaupoi r\u0101, Koro, Harley, a Jimjim. Hoki mai an\u014D ki t\u0113nei Whare. T\u014D koutou whare t\u014Drangap\u016B. Ehara n\u014Dku, ehara n\u014D \u0113nei t\u0101ngata, n\u014D koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EHuri atu te kanohi ora. Hau\u0101uru taku tino, e mihi ana ki a koe me t\u014D k\u0101hui i kawe mai i t\u0113nei kaupapa ki tua o t\u014Dna toka t\u016B moana ki tua o t\u014Dna tihi maunga. Tokotoru aku tino o Ng\u0101ti Paoa waka o Te K\u014Dtuiti Tuarua. Tuatahi, taku tino a Alistair Toto. T\u0113r\u0101 kaiwaiata, kaiwhakahaere waiata. Tuarua, H\u0113mi Par\u0101one. Rima tekau \u014Drau he Ng\u0101i Tai, rima tekau \u014Drau he Ng\u0101ti Porou, rima tekau \u014Drau he Ng\u0101ti Paoa. Tuatoru Mahuika R\u0101wiri, e whakat\u016B pout\u016B\u0101rongo nei i a T\u0101maki ki te tonga i t\u014Dna tuakiritanga i t\u014D t\u0101tou tuakiritanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ET\u0113nei te p\u0101nuitanga tuatahi m\u014D t\u014D koutou pire, e tautoko ana te r\u014Dp\u016B N\u0101hinara t\u0113nei p\u0101ti kahurangi i t\u014Dna whakataunga. \u0112nei \u0101huatanga te whakaaetanga whakatau o ng\u0101 ker\u0113me Tiriti i whakam\u0101unu mai ai i te r\u014Dp\u016B N\u0101hinara, na Chris Finlayson m\u0101 t\u014D koutou kaupapa i whakaputa ki waho moana \u0113ngari e mihi ana ki a \u0100naru Paku m\u0101na an\u014D e whakahoki ki uta. \u0112r\u0101 t\u0101ngata a Mike Dreaver m\u0101 a Rick Barker m\u0101 me \u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 tautohetohe i waenganui i a r\u0101tou me koutou k\u0101ore e roa kua tau te p\u016Behu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EKei te hoki aku mahara i te w\u0101 i te mahi au m\u014D te Tahua Kaum\u0101tua Penihana o Aotearoa, mahi tahi m\u0101ua ko t\u014D koutou h\u0101pai \u014D a Daniel Karehana. E mihi ana ki a ia, me tana ngana hiakai hoki ki te whakatakoto i t\u0113tahi huarahi whai rawa t\u0113tahi huarahi whai p\u016Btea i waenganui i a koutou o Ng\u0101ti Paoa tat\u016B atu r\u0101 ki ng\u0101 iwi katoa. Marutuahu, T\u0101maki-makau-rau, Ng\u0101 tini o Toi, ng\u0101 ika katoa o T\u012Bkapa moana, t\u0113r\u0101 p\u0101taka kai t\u014D t\u0101tou p\u0101taka kai. E mihi ana ki a ia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EMe \u0113nei \u0101huatanga kua m\u0101turuturu mai i te pene whakaaaro i te pene k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki te moni ka pai. Te whakahoki o ng\u0101 whenua, tino pai, me te whai w\u0101hi hoki i ng\u0101 moni \u0101 tau p\u0113r\u0101 me te hoko mai o ng\u0101 kura. Hei moni \u0101-tau ia tau ia tau. Whai hoki t\u0113r\u0101 tauira ki Macleans College ka rawe hoki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EKa rawe hoki te rongo ki \u0113r\u0101 momo k\u014Drero. T\u014D koutou iwi kanohi h\u014Dmiromiro, ika pae wai, k\u0101k\u0101kura he iwi auaha he iwi m\u0101ia he iwi manawanui. I au i tae atu r\u0101 i rongo au ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki a Mahurangi, ki a Kohim\u0101rama me t\u0113r\u0101 whenua ki T\u0101maki ki te tonga n\u0101 Fairburn i whakarite ki te hokona. T\u014D koutou whakanunui me Waikato, i t\u0113nei w\u0101 kei te huri te kei o te waka kia tupu matomato ai kia tupu ora ai kia tupu \u014Dhanga mai koutou. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[Welcome P\u016Banga, welcome Matariki. Paoa inland, Paoa on the coast at Mahurangi at \u014Cmaha. From there honour to Waitemat\u0101 to T\u014Danga roa to Wai\u014Dt\u0101iki to Te Pane o Horoiwi to Taurere to T\u0101oma to Mauinaina to Mokoia to the pool of Mokoikahikuwaru to the sacred waters Rangi\u0101tea to Ng\u0101 P\u014Dito o te k\u016Bpenga a Taramainuku, put aside Motutapu lest I be belittled by James Brown. I\u2019ll tread slowly. Carrying on, honour to Te \u0100rai Roa to Waiheke a Kahumatamomoe to R\u0101t\u0101roa to Te Pounui a Peret\u016B to P\u0101kihi to K\u0101ramuramu to Kawakawa. Further out towards T\u0101whitokino to \u014Crere to P\u016Bkorokoro to Wharekawa te Tara o te Ika, over towards Wait\u012B, Te Hoe o Tainui from Mahurangi to the Hoe o Tainui. From T\u014Danga roa to Moehau, greetings to you all. Welcome to your Beehive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ETurn the stern towards your deceased that you carry with you, to your honourable Morehu, that cowboy from St Stephen\u2019s School and all your ancestors who signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Te H\u012Bnaki, Hoete, Hori P\u014Dkai Te Reinga, and all the other nobles from the ancient times. The ones who brought that sacred agreement to Wai\u0101rohe to this House and your issues that will eventually be settled. To my aristocratic leaders, Herearoha and your elites and also those cowboys, Koro, Harley and Jimjim. Come back to the House. Your parliamentary House. It\u2019s not mine, it doesn\u2019t belong to these people; it\u2019s yours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003ETurn oh the living and breathing. Hau\u0101uru my favourite, I acknowledge you and your assembly who brought this discussion beyond your ranks beyond your base. I have three favourites from the Ng\u0101ti Paoa waka Te K\u014Dtuiti Tuarua. Firstly, my favourite is Alistair Toto. That singer, that composer. Secondly, James Brown. Fifty percent is Ng\u0101i Tai, 50 percent is Ng\u0101ti Porou and the other 50 percent is Ng\u0101ti P\u0101oa. Thirdly, Mahuika R\u0101wiri, becoming influential in the south of Auckland with his hard work and with our hard work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThis is the first reading of your bill, this is supported by the National Party, this blue party supports the settlement. These initiatives to agree to the settlement of the claims according to the Treaty which was brought here before us the National Party by Chris Finlayson, who took it out to the sea, but I\u2019d also like to acknowledge Andrew Little, who will bring it back to the shores. Those others as well, Mike Dreaver and Rick Barker, the debates between them and yourselves in which the dust will soon be settled. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EMy memories go back to when I use to work for the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. I worked alongside your very own Daniel Karehana. I acknowledge him and his hard work to set up wealth and financial security for you Ng\u0101ti Paoa and the many iwi. Marutuahu, T\u0101maki-makau-rau, Ng\u0101 tini o Toi, and all the fish of T\u012Bkapa ocean, that food storage of yours and all of ours. I acknowledge him and his efforts that have come to fruition through his knowledge about finance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe return of land is excellent, and the annual returns as well is excellent the annual finances used by schools. Annual income every single year. The example that happened with Macleans College as well is awesome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EI thoroughly enjoy hearing those stories. Your diligent and careful nation, a creative people, a strong people, and a brave nation. When I went to hear the discussions about Mahurangi, Kohim\u0101rama and those other lands around South Auckland that Fairburn had set up to buy. Your relationship with Waikato, right now the stern of the canoe will turn and see you flourish, see you thrive, and see you succeed. Thank you all very much.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022515f56c2d7a4469fb8aca0bf234b00d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022515f56c2d7a4469fb8aca0bf234b00d7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Rawiri Waititi\u2014a five minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u0022ade3e16b9dd6445ab9c98a083937be0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ade3e16b9dd6445ab9c98a083937be0b\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te Paati M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E E te P\u012Bka, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 tatou, t\u0113n\u0101 tatou e te Whare. Otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, e hika m\u0101. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou Ng\u0101ti Paoa. Haere mai nei, whakapiri mai nei ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare. \u0100e, he tika tonu ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a taku hoa, a te rangatira nei, a Tama, n\u0101 koutou t\u0113nei Whare, whakatau mai r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 te tira ka t\u016B, ko te tira n\u0101 T\u016Brora, n\u0101 Rereahu, n\u0101 K\u014Drehe, n\u0101 T\u016Brongo. T\u0113n\u0101 te tira e oti ana, tira ka t\u016B, t\u0113n\u0101 toetoe n\u0101 Haka, n\u0101 Hau\u0101, tira ka t\u016B, t\u0113n\u0101 oti. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EKo Kohukohunui te maunga, ko Piako te awa, ko T\u012Bkapa te moana, ko Te Haup\u0101 te tangata, nei r\u0101 te mihi, nei r\u0101 te mihi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 rawa atu koutou. Kua oti katoa te whakahuahua ingoa i t\u0113nei r\u0101. T\u0113nei ka tautoko, t\u0113nei ka tau. T\u0113nei r\u0101 an\u014D hoki te mihi atu i runga i te \u0101huatanga o \u014D t\u0101tou mate. Tika tonu kia mihi r\u0101 ki a M\u014Drehu, te nui o ng\u0101 pakeke kua riro t\u012Btapu ki te p\u014D. K\u0101re e kite i te whakatinanatanga o t\u0113nei \u0101huatanga, engari m\u0101 r\u0101tou e kawe ng\u0101 k\u014Drero ki ng\u0101 m\u0101tua t\u012Bpuna i te p\u014D, kei konei tonu koutou e whawhai m\u014D t\u014D koutou mana motuhake me t\u014D rangatiratanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003ER\u0101tou i mate, i rere te toto ki runga i t\u014D koutou whenua, hei aha? Hei oranga m\u014D ng\u0101 whakatipuranga, m\u014D ng\u0101 mokopuna e haere ake nei. N\u014D reira r\u0101tou ki a r\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EKa hoki mai r\u0101 ki a t\u0101tou, m\u014Drehu tangata kua tae mai nei i t\u0113nei r\u0101, haramai, haramai, haramai. E kore e tarea t\u0113nei t\u016B \u0101huatanga te whakaw\u0101tea i ng\u0101 mamaetanga, i ng\u0101 t\u0101mitanga, i ng\u0101 patunga a te Karauna i a koutou, i a t\u0101tou. E kore rawa, e kore rawa. Engari me p\u0113nei pea taku k\u014Drero, kei te ngau tonu t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga, t\u0113r\u0101 taniwha i a t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei rangi tonu. Kei te kite atu awahau i roto i te pepa nei, i te pire nei, kei te ngau tonu, kei te ngau tonu, kei te ngau tonu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EAr\u0101 i roto i ng\u0101 pakanga o te motu i roto i ng\u0101 tau 1860, ar\u0101 i kitea ng\u0101 t\u0101mitanga ki runga i t\u014D koutou p\u0101, ki P\u016Bkorokoro. Hika, ka mau te wehi! Ka mau te wehi! Ka whakaingoatia t\u0113r\u0101 whenua ki te poti i p\u016B i a koutou, ng\u0101 p\u016Brepo, whakamutu atu! Whakamutu atu! I taraingia e r\u0101tou te tango i t\u014D koutou mana, i t\u014D koutou reo, i t\u014D koutou mana motuhake, me t\u014D koutou rangatiratanga, i t\u014D koutou whakatangata i a koutou ki runga i t\u014D koutou whenua, engari auare ake! Kei konei koutou i t\u0113nei r\u0101, kei te ora tonu. Kei te ora tonu. Kei te kite t\u0113nei Whare i t\u014D kanohi, kei te rongo i t\u014D wairua, ar\u0101 an\u014D hoki kei te rongo i t\u014D mauri. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EE kore e tarea t\u0113nei t\u016B \u0101huatanga te whakatikatika i roto i te kotahi paih\u0113neti o ng\u0101 moni ka riro i a koutou, kotahi paih\u0113neti. Me waiho m\u0101 \u0101 t\u0101tou tamariki mokopuna te iwa tekau m\u0101 iwa paih\u0113neti e whawhai kei ng\u0101 r\u0101 e haere ake nei. Me p\u0113r\u0101 pea te k\u014Drero. N\u014D reira kia kaha ki a t\u0101tou ki te whakat\u014D i te k\u0101kano ki roto i \u0101 t\u0101tou tamariki mokopuna he iwa tekau m\u0101 iwa paih\u0113neti e toe ana m\u0101 r\u0101tou e whawhai. M\u0101 r\u0101tou hei whawhai. Kaua e mea he \u201Cfull and final settlement\u201D, whakamutua atu t\u0113n\u0101 k\u014Drero. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EAr\u0101 me te mea an\u014D hoki, e hika m\u0101, t\u0113nei t\u016B \u0101huatanga he mea whakawehewehe, whakawehewehe i a t\u0101tou i roto i a t\u0101tou. Whakawehewehe iwi i te iwi, hap\u016B i te hap\u016B, wh\u0101nau i te wh\u0101nau. T\u0113nei t\u016B \u0101huatanga ehara n\u0101 t\u0101tou, n\u014D reira e te P\u012Bka, kua tonoa mai t\u0113tahi reta e t\u0113tahi ki au. P\u012Brangi au ki te whakaw\u0101tea i te Whare kia whakat\u0113pungia t\u0113nei pepa i t\u0113nei w\u0101. Ki te kore, hika, e kore e tarea e t\u0101tou te whakatutuki i ng\u0101 mahi kei mua i a t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira koia hoki t\u0101ku i t\u0113nei w\u0101. E hika m\u0101, he rima miniti noa iho ki au, engari kei te m\u014Dhio au h\u0101whe p\u0101hi i te rima karaka kei te wehe atu te nuinga o koutou. N\u014D reira, \u0101, kua mutu te w\u0101hi ki a au, engari t\u0113nei r\u0101 te mihi atu r\u0101 ki a koutou. Kia kaha koutou ki a koutou, kia kaha koutou an\u014D hoki ki te whakawhirinaki ki \u0113r\u0101 atu iwi e raruraru nei i roto i ng\u0101 whakahaere a t\u0113nei Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E[Thank you. Greetings to all of us, greetings to all of us in this House. Indeed greetings to you, friends. Greetings, Ng\u0101ti Paoa. Welcome, welcome into this House. Yes, the statements of my colleague, the noble leader Tama, this House is yours, welcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThat is the party that stands, the party belonging to T\u016Brora, Rereahu, K\u014Drehe, and T\u016Brongo. That is the party that concludes, the party that stands, the rushes belonging to Haka and Hau\u0101, the party that stands, it is concluded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EKohukohunui is the ancestral mountain, Piako is the ancestral river, T\u012Bkapa is the ancestral sea, Te Haup\u0101 is the illustrious leader, I greet you, I acknowledge you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EMany greetings to you. The mentioning of names has absolutely been completed today. I support that, it is resolved. I would also like to make acknowledgments with respect to our deceased. It is appropriate to acknowledge M\u014Drehu, and the many elders who have passed into the night. They will not see the realisation of this phenomenon, but they will carry word of it to the forebears in the night, that you are here fighting for your autonomy and sovereignty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThose who died, whose blood flowed on your land, for what? For the wellbeing of the generations, of the grandchildren that are to come. So they have joined their peers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EI return now to us, to the remnants that have arrived here today, welcome, welcome, welcome. This phenomenon is not able to relieve the anguish, the suppression, and the assaults of the Crown on you, on us. Never, not ever. But perhaps I should put it like this: that thing, that beast continues to bite us this very day. I see it in this paper, in this bill, it continues to bite, to chew, to lacerate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EIn particular in the wars of the nation in the 1860s, the oppression of your fortified stronghold, P\u016Bkorokoro, was seen. Golly, it\u2019s unbelievable! It\u2019s unbelievable! That land was named after the ship that fired on you, the cannons, cut it out! Stop it! They tried to take your authority, your language, your autonomy, and your sovereignty, your very ability to flourish on your own land, but no such luck! Here you are today, you yet live. You yet live. This House sees your face, feels your spirit, and also feels your power. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThis phenomenon cannot be rectified with the 1 percent of the funding that you will receive, 1 percent. We should leave it up to our children and grandchildren to fight for the 99 percent in the coming days. Perhaps that is how it should be put. So let\u2019s all be determined to plant the seed in our children and grandchildren that there is a remaining 99 percent for them to fight for. For them to fight for. Don\u2019t call it a \u201Cfull and final settlement\u201D, stop it with that statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EAnd furthermore, my friends, these proceedings are divisive, they alienate us from each other. Alienating tribe from tribe, subtribe from subtribe, family from family. This phenomenon is nothing of ours, so Madam Speaker, a letter has been sent by someone to me. I wish to seek the leave of the House to table this paper at this time. If not, golly, we will not be able to conclude the work that is before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s all from me at this time. My friends, I only have five minutes, but I know that at half past five, the majority of you will depart. So, my contribution has ended, but I\u2019d like to acknowledge you. Be strong among yourselves, and also be steadfast in relying on other iwi that are distressed by the proceedings of this House. Greetings, greetings and thanks to all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022260501c3b6f14b7ab3224b3ac41c040f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, with apologies to the member, if the member who just spoke wished to table a document\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aca82d8b1b94d01828795ab59346168\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes, sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9ef38dcf0cf4890866313e726c664ae\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Would he like to take a point of order and seek leave to do that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e1d02e9819446690bb5220d6b6a138\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: Aroha mai, e te P\u012Bka. I did say it in M\u0101ori that I\u2019d move a motion to take leave to table this document, so do I have to move a point of order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234c2ca04d85b46e2a25e43bd3a9b26cd\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a07bae3ae5640e58573463df3cb0994\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. I\u2019d like to take leave from the House to table this document. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00226fccc7f3092c4bd9a2fa68273c3e1490\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fccc7f3092c4bd9a2fa68273c3e1490\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is requested for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u002228daebea746941ad8969ec3135c180a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228daebea746941ad8969ec3135c180a2\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National):\u003C/span\u003E Ng\u0101ti Paoa, nau mai, haere mai i t\u0113nei w\u0101. E t\u016B au, e karanga ki te p\u0101nuitanga tuatahi o te pire Ng\u0101ti Paoa Claims Settlement Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E[Ng\u0101ti Paoa, welcome, welcome at this time. I stand to take a call on the first reading of the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Claims Settlement Bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EI take a brief call, mindful that Ng\u0101ti Paoa will be taking flight very shortly, so we are on a limited time span for our k\u014Drero, our karanga to all gathered here in the gallery. Importantly, this is an opportunity. Ng\u0101ti Paoa, this is the journey that your people have been on, but this is televised so it\u2019s an opportunity for us in the Chamber to put out to Aotearoa New Zealand, for New Zealanders to join in part of what your journey and your story has been, which will be captured in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EIn the short call that I take, Madam Speaker, and to New Zealanders who are listening in, the stories that many of us as M\u0101ori have traversed through the course of generations\u2014a number of us in the Chamber here have sat where Ng\u0101ti Paoa are, with our people, our tribal peoples, with the passage of legislation through to the completion. My parliamentary colleague Rawiri Waititi, we share that journey when we sit on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee with other members in this House. So, we know the mamae. We are aware of the grievance. We are aware also of the heaviness, but the hope, that comes with these settlements. There is contention about it being full and final, and that is korero that we are subject to and we listen to on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u2014always cognisant of this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EBut what has been captured in the bill? And I will keep this brief. Importantly, my eye is drawn to clause 8, the summary of historical account, and I invite New Zealanders to go to this bill to read the story of Ng\u0101ti Paoa; clause 9, which is the acknowledgment from the Crown in terms of those transgressions and what the redress will be; and clause 10, the formal Crown apology. In this bill, what\u2019s particularly noted is that it is captured in te reo Tauiwi, in te reo M\u0101ori, te reo o ng\u0101 mita o Ng\u0101ti Paoa [in the English language, in the M\u0101ori language, the language of the regional variations of Ng\u0101ti Paoa], and that is so important because this is the journey, the story, of Ng\u0101ti Paoa. And I invite New Zealanders to take the time to read this, to take the time to listen, to take the time to feel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003ESo we will have the opportunity and the privilege, sitting on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, to listen to the further submissions from the interested parties, the stakeholders, Ng\u0101ti Paoa. And it is our duty and responsibility of care to take cognisance of those concerns further to what has been inscribed here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003EAlso, my eye is drawn to the interpretation section, where there is an acknowledgment of those of you gathered here and those who have gone before\u2014in terms of the hand, the imprint, and what will be inscribed and captured on parchment, in paper, for time to come. So it is with a sense of heaviness that many of us do stand here, but it is with a sense of hope in the journey moving forward. And I see our young ones, our future. Today is a present\u2014it is a gift to the future, bearing in mind the journey that Ng\u0101ti Paoa have carried through the generations from the past to arrive here today. It is a privilege that I stand as the last speaker of the National Party to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u002251a45bc3fe684674a6bc450c1db0188e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251a45bc3fe684674a6bc450c1db0188e\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E He ika ki te moana, ko au ki te whenua, T\u012Bkapa oneone hokinga k\u0101inga. Ko aku whatu e huri ana ki Te Kohukohunui, Te Kot\u016Biti, ka tae mai koe ki te takoto o Te Whanganui-a-Tara. Turuki turuki, paneke paneke, haramai te toki, haumi e, hui e, t\u0101iki e. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EKua hipa te w\u0101. Kua hipa te w\u0101 n\u014D reira t\u0113nei te tautoko i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero kua wh\u0101rikihia ki mua i t\u014D koutou nei aroaro, Ng\u0101ti Paoa. T\u0113r\u0101 tangi apakura ki a M\u014Drehu, tat\u016B atu r\u0101 ki a r\u0101tou katoa i ng\u0101 tau kua whai ake i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 kaupapa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira koutou ng\u0101 m\u014Drehu, ng\u0101 mahuetanga iho, Hau\u0101uru, te pai o te kite i a koe, koutou katoa. Ka noho t\u016Bturu ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i waihotia e koro ki waenganui i a m\u0101tou, ng\u0101 mema o t\u0113nei Whare P\u0101remata, he t\u012Bmatatanga t\u0113nei. He maha ng\u0101 piki me ng\u0101 heke engari he t\u012Bmata t\u0113nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EKo t\u0101 r\u0101tou wero ki a t\u0101tou, te P\u0101remata, ahakoa ko wai e noho ki t\u0113whea o ng\u0101 t\u016Bru, he t\u012Bmatatanga t\u0113nei. Me mahi ng\u0101tahi kia taea e Ng\u0101ti Paoa ki te tutuki i \u0101 r\u0101tou nei wawata m\u014D n\u0101ianei, m\u014D ng\u0101 uri whakatupu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, Ng\u0101ti Paoa, kei a koutou t\u0113nei w\u0101, n\u014D koutou te mana. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E[As fish in the sea, I am on the land, the sands of T\u012Bkapa, the home I return to. My eyes turn to Te Kohukohunui, to Te Kot\u016Biti, you arrive at the topography of Wellington. Advance, advance, progress, progress, take up the sceptre, it coalesces, it comes together, it is done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EThe time has passed. The time has passed so I support the statements that have been laid before all of you, Ng\u0101ti Paoa. The song of grief for M\u014Drehu, and also to those who pursued this initiative over the years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ESo to you, the survivors, the remnants, Hau\u0101uru, it\u2019s good to see you, all of you. The statements left by your grandsire among us, the members of this House of Parliament, this is a beginning. There are many ups and downs, but this is a beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003ETheir challenge to us, to Parliament, regardless of who is sitting in which seat, this is a beginning. We must work together so that Ng\u0101ti Paoa is able to accomplish the dreams for today, and for descendants to come.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u002223f7d8e20bf547dfb48b53042541fa79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223f7d8e20bf547dfb48b53042541fa79\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Ng\u0101ti Paoa Claims Settlement Bill be considered by the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00220d893dc27f784c8f892e19ceae4fdae2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d893dc27f784c8f892e19ceae4fdae2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I can tell the House that permission has been now granted for a waiata. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EPao\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EWaiata\u2014Rimurimu\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EKaranga\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dffcfe490130444993f3673b15852ed0\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227f3a56b3e4f54001823d9c426d4fe39e\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022670fd4b02eac4f3ead320a1f2bf7141d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022670fd4b02eac4f3ead320a1f2bf7141d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhen I arrived in Parliament 15 years ago, I arrived at the beginning of a National Government and I sat on the opposite side of the House from what I do now. And there were many occasions during those nine years where I was upset, frustrated, annoyed, and angry with the policy changes that I saw taking place. I obviously understood that it was part of the democratic process that Governments change from time to time and that things that I might have held very dear to me were no longer the priority of the Government of the day. I\u2019m a passionate debater, as people know in this House, and I certainly made my points about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOne thing I knew, however, during those nine years, was that when John Key was the Prime Minister, whatever I might have thought of what he was doing to the country and the policies that he was putting in place, the politics of race had been put on the back burner. Like many in this House, I vividly remember the period of time in the run up to the 2005 election where the politics of race took centre stage in New Zealand, under the leadership of a different leader of the National Party and under a different Government where Helen Clark was the Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThat period of time where we saw that\u2014and I acknowledge the likes of the Hon Chris Finlayson, who I think did an enormous amount, and we\u2019ve just seen a Treaty settlement bill have its first reading in here, and I acknowledge the work that he did. I acknowledge the work that, as I say, the then Prime Minister did. To see the politics of race return in the way they are to our political discourse distresses me. Chris Hipkins, when he spoke at the Labour Party\u2019s congress in May, used a line that I think is very important: \u201COnly the weakest of leaders seek to use race relations as a wedge to stoke fear and division.\u201D For me, I consider that to be a statement that I genuinely believe in. We can disagree on many topics in this House, and we do and it is healthy for democracy that we do, but when we find yet again that the politics of race have found their way to the top of the agenda, we as a Parliament are weaker and worse for that, and we as a country are far more divided from that than we should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe latest example of that over the course of the last week or two has been the question around the equity adjuster within the northern district health boards. It\u2019s really interesting to me that there\u2019s not been so much attention within that on the ridiculousness and the outrageousness that whether you live in a rural community is counted in an equity adjuster or whether your socio-economic status should be counted. We don\u2019t hear that raised. We don\u2019t hear that being a major concern. We just hear about issues of race.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI believe\u2014and I know that the members\u2019 opposite may not be enjoying this contribution, but I actually believe the vast majority of the members opposite are better than that. I actually do believe that, because I believe they are here for the reasons that brought them to politics, to put in place the things that they believed in, just as John Key and his Government did. And we will disagree on those things, but my personal view is that we diminish this House and we diminish the political debate by the focus and the division being stoked on the basis of race in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs a country, we have come so far, and yet we have so far to go. We celebrate moments like the one we just saw in the House now as a Parliament, and that is tremendous that we have the ability to do that, but we\u2019ve got to look again at our politics. The kind of politics of division and fear that are stoked by those that put race at the top of the agenda and seek to divide us on that will only put people off engaging with us. So I want to commit again to the kind of leadership that I see coming from Chris Hipkins, which is that we are unifying our country, we are finding the ways that we can work together to move ahead as a country, and that we don\u2019t fall into the trap of the lazy politics of division on the basis of race and stoking fear where that fear does not exist because, as we lift up the aspirations of M\u0101ori, of Pasifika, or of rural New Zealanders, as we lift up and remove the inequities that those groups face in our health system, our whole country is stronger and better. That should be our focus, not stoking fear and division.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022229ebb803fee4108afb5f924b43008af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022229ebb803fee4108afb5f924b43008af\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Grant Robertson says it\u2019s a lazy form of politics to talk about race. The laziest form of politics is actually to accuse the other side of politics of racism, and that\u2019s what Grant Robertson spent much of his speech doing. We have to be grown-ups in this country, and this is a grown-up House of Representatives. We need to be able to talk about issues of race in this Parliament. And, to paraphrase the Chief Justice of the United States, the way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race. So we are not going to apologise for having robust discussions in this Parliament and in wider society, and we would be doing a disservice to the people of this country if we did not raise legitimate issues about race-based funding and discrimination on the basis of race in this Parliament. But the real issue today is actually about the Government falling apart, because, in the last five months, five Ministers have shuffled off the political mortal coil: Stuart Nash, Michael Wood, Meka Whaitiri, and, I predict, soon Jan Tinetti, because Jan Tinetti, in some ways, has done worse than Michael Wood has done, and there will be more words to be said about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EBut let\u2019s talk about Michael Wood, because Michael Wood today resigned as a Cabinet Minister, and it turns out Michael Wood should be a member of the National Party, because Michael Wood is the biggest capitalist socialist I\u2019ve ever seen! Michael Wood, back when he was a young whippersnapper, coming up through the ranks of the Labour youth movement, decided, as a youngster, that he would participate in the privatisation of Contact Energy in the late 1990s, which was done by the National Government as a trade sale and a partial float. It was the forerunner to the mixed-ownership model of the John Key and Bill English Government, and Michael Wood, the cloth cap, hard-left unionist leader of the Labour left movement decided back then: \u201CI\u2019m actually going to put up some of my own capital. I\u2019m going to buy a few shares.\u201D Not only that\u2014not only Contact Energy\u2014but Auckland International Airport; another privatisation by the National Government back in 1999 to 2008. And it turns out, we learn today, he owns shares all over the sharemarket: National Australia Bank, Chorus\u2014there\u2019s a whole bunch of different shares. So it turns out that the cloth cap, hard-left unionist is actually a dirty little capitalist! And we welcome him to the cause of a shareholding democracy. We just wish he\u2019d been slightly more upfront about the fact that he owned those shares for all those years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAnd, after 12 times being told by the officials and his staff, \u201CHey, mate, you\u2019d better sell these shares, because you\u2019ve got to disclose them\u201D, he didn\u2019t do it. So Michael Wood has left the ministry. And, of course, we\u2019ve had Stuart Nash in recent weeks as well, who thought it was OK to leak confidential information out of Cabinet to his political donors. Then, of course, we get to the awful saga of Jan Tinetti, who decided to not be upfront with the public and the Parliament about her dirty little deal to conspire with her officials to make sure that announcements about attendance data were released at the same time as the Government was making some PR puffery about announcements to take care of it. What we see is a Government in disarray, and what I\u2019ve just talked about\u2014Stuart Nash, Michael Wood, Kiri Allan\u2014is characterised by three things. One is arrogance. Second is incompetence. And three is a lack of focus on what actually matters. Here we are, less than four months till the election, talking about everything other than the important issues: the 60 percent increase in spending in the last six years, for no outcomes; a health system falling apart; an education system falling apart; law and order in this country that is going from bad to worse. We\u2019re not talking about those important issues; instead, we\u2019re talking about this inept and tired and arrogant Government\u2019s last few months in office, with Ministers leaving left, right, and centre. New Zealanders deserve better, and on 14 October they\u2019ll get the chance to vote for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4b91144e7664051a5749d8683fb87ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4b91144e7664051a5749d8683fb87ab\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I stand as a proud wahine M\u0101ori from a rural electorate to take the third call in this general debate and lift this tone out of gutter politics and talk about some positivity. I would like to talk about the Fieldays. I had a great time at the Fieldays last week\u2014it was really positive, spirits were high, the sun was shining, and we had the pleasure of hearing the announcement that the primary industries exports are set to hit a record high of $56.2 billion by 30 June 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EWe are a proud primary-producing nation punching well above our weight, and I want to acknowledge our primary producers who have recently experienced really, really tough times with the weather events that we\u2019ve seen\u2014some last year, but mostly this year. I want to acknowledge all of them and everything that they have been going through. Our primary producers have carried us through for the last few years through tough times, and I want to acknowledge all of them and thank them for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI am proud of our primary industries and I want to congratulate them on this record achievement, which I note is set to move towards $62 billion by 2027. I am proud of the work that this Government is doing for our primary producers by opening doors for exports wherever we can, and build on the seven new or upgraded free-trade agreements secured since we\u2019ve been in office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThe next really positive thing that I would like to talk about that this Government is doing is providing financial support for parents on paid parental leave. Those parents that take the full 26 weeks of paid parental leave are set to have an increase from $661.12 a week to $712.17. We know that the cost pressures of living are hitting our families hard at the moment, and anything that we can do as a Government to help support that is really important and valued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EWhen a couple are expecting their first, second, third, whatever baby it might be, it\u2019s a time of joy. But it\u2019s also a time of stress; it is a time of sleeplessness\u2014I know members across the House will know what I am talking about there because we\u2019ve had recent conversations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022993f25321285495c9e1619be0a5d34da\u0022\u003EHon David Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5578371c9e640e1ad4b2404b1f9fbe4\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Mr Bennett, about that. So anything that we can do to reduce the pressure and burden on parents is certainly helpful. From mid-2024, parents will also receive a 3 percent Government contribution to their KiwiSaver while on paid parental leave, so long as they also continue to contribute. Because we do know that when people are away on paid parental leave, traditionally there has been no money going to their KiwiSaver\u2014so, therefore, depleting their wee nest egg going forward. So I think that that is a really great thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EAnother thing that I want to talk about is the simplified path to residency. When I\u2019m out talking to people in my electorate, often we hear\u2014particularly from our rural and primary producers\u2014the difficulties that they face in getting skilled migrants, given the workforce shortages that we do experience. We are making changes to the Skilled Migrant Category Resident Visa as part of the immigration rebalance to help businesses be able to attract skilled migrants. We\u2019re going to provide these highly skilled people with a faster route to residency, and that ensures that people in families migrating to New Zealand for work\u2014it gives those families stability and certainty, knowing that they are going to be able to have a pathway to residency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI want to finish up by talking about the milestone that we reached\u2014and it was really good to reach this milestone yesterday, being World Refugee Day\u2014where we celebrated the milestone of resettling 1,500 refugees this quota year. We have a really proud history, here in New Zealand, of helping people whose lives are at risk and are forced to flee their country. I am really proud that my electorate is one of the electorates where refugees can resettle\u2014in Ashburton and Timaru\u2014and we welcome these refugees to New Zealand knowing they make a fantastic contribution to our society. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022324a868c6e7c487aa9dcfa1ccf952da5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022324a868c6e7c487aa9dcfa1ccf952da5\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (National\u2014Whangapar\u0101oa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Firstly, I want to acknowledge Karen Chhour and the urgent debate that she brought to this House today in relation to the abuse that was happening inside Oranga Tamariki. She spoke from the heart. She spoke from her own experiences. And as her tears fell on the floor in this House, I was expecting the Minister responsible for Oranga Tamariki to honour her and at least stand and make some sort of an effort to respond to what is an extremely serious situation. Instead, he chose to stand and make cheap political shots at the Opposition. Totally inappropriate and I thought much higher of Kelvin Davis and I expected much more from him. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the situation that we\u2019ve had in \u014Cp\u014Dtiki recently with the Mongrel Mob deciding that they could come out in numbers and take over the town. I acknowledge the comments that were made by the mayor there, and I acknowledge the comments that were made by iwi leaders, but I personally believe that the people of \u014Cp\u014Dtiki don\u2019t want to be known as a gang town. They don\u2019t want to be known for gang violence. And by the way, we don\u2019t have two standards of citizenship in this country where one group gets to blatantly break the laws of our country when law-abiding Kiwis have to keep adhering to those laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe police say that there was an adequate response. I completely, utterly reject that. When you have got gang members taking over public spaces and public roads, when you\u2019ve got the police taking resources away from the communities that they should be protecting to do traffic control and closing roads that members of the public should have free access to, that is not a success. When you have the justice Minister standing up and saying that of the eight vehicles that were stopped\u2014eight vehicles; there were hundreds of gang vehicles involved in this procession\u2014five of them had firearms in them, that\u2019s got to be a huge red flag. How many other firearms were actually part of that convoy? How many illegal firearms were still out in the public? There were two arrests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIf we have reached a point in this country where our police stand up and say that\u2019s a great result, then we have plumbed the depths. Because in New Zealand we should put a line in the sand and we should be saying \u201CGangs, you don\u2019t get to come out and take over public spaces. You don\u2019t get to intimidate members of the public. You don\u2019t get special rules.\u201D No one else, when they\u2019re mourning a loved one or having a wake or having a funeral\u2014no other group in this country gets the sort of response that they get in terms of traffic control, roads closed, negotiation around behaviour, what they can do and what they can\u2019t do. And by the way, half these negotiations that take place with the police and the gangs, they immediately go out and break the rules. So let\u2019s not stand in here and pretend that what we\u2019ve seen is acceptable and normalised and we should accept that as a country. It\u2019s the complete opposite. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI was very pleased this week to see that we made a new announcement around aggravating factors for gang members. Let\u2019s get this straight. If you\u2019re a gang member, with the policy that we\u2019ve put forward, if you commit a crime, then it\u2019s going to be an aggravating factor. The current law is so weak that you have to prove that they\u2019re part of a criminal group, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s not used. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2a5a798eec14174a03ff311bb8d7c84\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s already there, Mark\u2014it\u2019s already there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f9f10a7044241a59d61c55c9fd28c3c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: These guys don\u2019t understand it\u2014they don\u2019t understand it. They say, \u201CNo, it\u2019s already on the books.\u201D It\u2019s not on the books. If it was on the books, it\u2019d be getting used. We\u2019ve stated very clearly that if you\u2019re a gang member now, if you\u2019re a member of a gang, it doesn\u2019t matter what crime you commit, whether it be some domestic violence, whether it be assaulting someone\u2014if you\u2019re a gang member it\u2019s an aggravating factor. It\u2019s a new piece of policy and it\u2019s a good piece of policy, and it\u2019ll continue to put pressure on gang members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you why. We don\u2019t want gang members in New Zealand. We want to get rid of gang members. Yes, I admit\u2014I concede that they\u2019ve been here for decades. Harry Tam\u2014Harry Tam was on the TV this week. Harry Tam\u2019s got some genuine leadership skills. He\u2019s got some say inside the gangs. Why doesn\u2019t he take a stand and say, \u201CI want you to leave.\u201D? If he comes and says to me, \u201CWe\u2019ll have a meeting. Let\u2019s sit down and talk.\u201D, I\u2019m happy to do that. But the conversation\u2019s got to be this: how do we help, how do we work to allow your gang members to leave the gang and rejoin society? Because very sadly, Steven Taiatini, who was killed in \u014Cp\u014Dtiki\u2014and it is a loss and I\u2019m sorry to his family\u2014his father was killed as well with gang violence. The question is this: do you want the sons or the sons after that to be killed because of gang violence? For me, no; it\u2019s not acceptable and we have to do something about it. And we do have to work together to do that. So Harry Tam needs to step forward and say, \u201CHow do we stop this? How do we work with Government rather than getting up and criticising?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2f862f70f374230a13bfc99941141f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2f862f70f374230a13bfc99941141f5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00221aa340bf7bb24c4e873230422ba8f7cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221aa340bf7bb24c4e873230422ba8f7cd\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for Broadcasting and Media):\u003C/span\u003E I think that member made a reasonable point at the end; I\u2019m happy to concede that, having worked with gangs through my life and worked with someone like Harry Tam. So I would accept that, as a House, we do have a responsibility in working through what Mr Mitchell talks about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI want to support our finance Minister. I think it\u2019s a sad indictment on this House that the right have brought the race debate, in terms of health. The reality is, patients get a score of 100 to determine their surgery; being M\u0101ori or Pasifika adds one or two points to the equation\u2014one or two points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe way the right, particularly the National Party, have seized upon using ethnicity as a factor in deciding healthcare dollars and spun into a story of \u201Creverse racism\u201D\u2014and that\u2019s what they\u2019re implying\u2014and that is somehow equal to apartheid is disgusting. I agree with Grant Robertson, I believe that most of the National Party are better than that. I\u2019m not sure about Mr Seymour, who seems to be using this all the time. Including ethnicity in health decisions has not been a racist policy; it\u2019s an attempt to ensure that not just M\u0101ori but Pasifika, rural Kiwis, and Kiwis living in poverty who have waited on the waiting list for too long\u2014and M\u0101ori\u2014gain outcomes that are comparable to the majority experience and positive health outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EHaving small steps in ensuring a positive health outcome for Pasifika, rural Kiwis, and M\u0101ori is just the right way to go. It was sad listening to the Leader of the Opposition on National Radio this morning. His refusal to accept what most experts are saying\u2014great doctors, like Dr Rawiri Jansen, Anthony Jordan, Mataroria Lyndon, Hinemoa Elder, Lily Freeman, Papaarangi Reid. These doctors have said for years\u2014experts who the National Party have engaged\u2014that clearly M\u0101ori have suffered under the health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe National Party of Bill English has acknowledged this. This is a disgrace what is happening in this House. It\u2019s a disgrace that the National Party are going down a track that people before them would have rejected. We\u2019re going back to the old Don Brash days, instead of acknowledging and working together. As our Minister of Finance said so eloquently today, let\u2019s work towards reducing the problem, rather than using the race argument, as Mr Seymour is constantly and Mr Luxon is afraid to oppose, because he\u2019s so worried now about the election coming a few months down the track. Despite all the facts that were given this morning on National Radio by the interviewer at the time, Mr Luxon refuses to accept that M\u0101ori and rural people and Pasifika have been hurt by the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not something we should be worried about; we should show courage here. Why is the National Party showing no courage? That\u2019s the big question. We know the ACT Party are just a group of opportunists. We know that that\u2019s going to be used constantly until the election comes around, that the race card will be pulled on us. It\u2019s sad, and it\u2019s an indictment on the ACT Party that they keep utilising that strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe realities are clear for everyone: M\u0101ori die earlier than our European brothers and sisters\u2014seven years earlier. Pasifika die earlier. Poorer people die earlier. Why don\u2019t you want to help them? Why do we have rural people die earlier? Why do we have to pull the race card? I\u2019ll tell you why, Madam Speaker\u2014you won\u2019t be here, I don\u2019t think; I think you\u2019re moving on, which is a shame, because you\u2019re one of the better members. But the reality is: it\u2019s all about the votes. It\u2019s all about their votes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe National Party are too scared to say what the truth is, and the truth is that a number of people in this country are suffering under the current system and need support. So, well done to all our health professionals out there, all the doctors out there. Don\u2019t listen to the rubbish that is coming from the ACT Party and the National Party, and keep at it. Our people\u2014all people, right across the different communities\u2014need our support. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022 data-id=\u002223c67d36ecec49209ccbfd113d9e8dc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223c67d36ecec49209ccbfd113d9e8dc5\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Lovely to be the last speaker before the dinner break. I actually thought I might be helpful to my Opposition colleagues, as a start, just in terms of understanding the concepts of discrimination but also affirmative action. I think one might think that they thought it was a new and wild concept that had never been used before if you listened to some of their speeches. But the idea of first asking \u201CWhere are we now?\u201D and looking at the inequities in society is actually something that\u2019s quite embedded in much of our law. So just a helpful first suggestion: Opposition members might want to look at section 73 of the Human Rights Act, which allows affirmative action to achieve equity in the employment context. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EThe former Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner and, actually, former National Party member Jackie Blue\u2019s view was that without that sort of affirmative action New Zealand\u2019s progress towards gender equality in private sector leadership would remain abysmal. The concept of looking at where we are and looking at inequity is good governance. We do it through a lot of the areas of law. To say that affirmative action and looking at where we are now is a bad thing is horrifying. It is a failure to see who we all are to each other. So I would encourage the members just to do a little bit of homework in terms of understanding the history of that concept and its use in our law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EBut I was really wanting to focus on what we are doing in terms of helping address the bread and butter issues that New Zealanders are facing at the moment. I was a child growing up in the 1980s and like many others in the room, I\u2019m sure, I remember walking into a Big Fresh and seeing the giant fruit, bananas, and veges dancing around. I remember going to the Foodtown, the Right Price, the Price Chopper as a child, but then, of course, in the 1980s and 1990s we saw mergers and acquisitions which meant we, essentially, only had one major provider and that has led in many ways to the situation that we have now. It became so bad that you really had providers who were responsible for and owned the production of fish right through to when that fish was sold to you, which was why we didn\u2019t end up seeing competition on our shelves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EWe are addressing the real issues. We are working to ensure that there is more competition in the grocery sector, which is why we have introduced legislation to ban restrictive land covenants as well. And I invite members, if you haven\u2019t been already, to come out to north-west Auckland where we do also have the likes of Costco, who are in the market and are absolutely making it more competitive with the supermarkets that are there as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EWhen we say we are addressing the bread and butter issues, we mean it; the real bread and butter issues. What principals will tell me in the Upper Harbour electorate is that it is a game-changer that kids can turn up to school and have free lunches\u2014it\u2019s a game-changer, and this Budget is extending the provision of those free lunches in schools. They tell me the same thing about accessing free period products, where girls can come to school and not have to worry about bringing them from home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we are a leadership who are focused on women. We are focused on women being in leadership roles in the House as well as women being in leadership roles on public sector boards. If you look at the voting record of this side of the House, we have voted to decriminalise abortion and we have voted to ensure abortion safe areas. We are all about looking after women\u2019s rights as well. If you look at what we\u2019ve done through this Budget, we\u2019ve made sure that young families can get back into the workforce, and that is largely women. After I had three kids who were all under about 5\u00BD years old, the key discussion at every coffee group meeting was when is the tipping point? When can you go back to work? And for most people it was around the three-year mark. From here on in, those mums with under-three-year-olds will be able to re-enter the workforce.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002283dca3a7-93a6-4a78-a313-6fce42ebe49e\u0022\u003EWe are focused on the issues that matter, but we are also focused on the values that sit behind those issues. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2dd2ef30f58455a8c63aeb5a6520d45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2dd2ef30f58455a8c63aeb5a6520d45\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break, and the House will resume at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.02 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00225da7e5111d564b41ad7176aa4e76fdf2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225da7e5111d564b41ad7176aa4e76fdf2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, members. When we went to the dinner break, we were still in the middle of the general debate. The next call is a National Party call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u002230c305eb3d794a7ba5b4e081cf3a7ca4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230c305eb3d794a7ba5b4e081cf3a7ca4\u0022\u003EMELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s rather an unusual day, when we are actually doing the general debate slightly differently. I was trying to keep track of what number we were up to, and it is my turn indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to talk about an issue that has come up, which gave me grave concerns\u2014and I\u2019ve had many emails and, also, social media conversations on ethnic community sites, using WeChat and KakaoTalk, for example. The community is really, really angry at the report that says Auckland surgeons are now required to consider patients\u2019 ethnicity to decide who gets an operation first. The Labour Government actually calls it the Equity Adjuster Score. I know that earlier, the Labour members actually talked about how, apparently, it is us on the opposite side of this Chamber who are bringing race into the issue, but it is in fact the Government that has actually made the race issue the prominent issue, where people are feeling that they don\u2019t belong in this country. When you actually consider that the priority is to M\u0101ori and Pasifika patients, on the grounds that they\u2019ve had unequal access to healthcare historically\u2014they said they have really bad health outcomes and that is the reason why they should be given priority. I don\u2019t have a problem with people being given priority when they have health issues\u2014we should be achieving better health outcomes\u2014but the thing is that need should be the decision maker. Need should be the criteria when people are attended to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EIf the historical thing actually matters, should we be giving the New Zealand - born Chinese community a priority? The first Chinese arrived here in 1842, and they were the people who had to pay poll tax, which was massive\u2014\u00A3100 poll tax\u2014and the thing is they weren\u2019t even made New Zealanders until the 1950s. The Helen Clark Government, at the time, actually apologised to the Chinese community for the way they were treated badly. They were called \u201Cthe yellow peril\u201D. If the ancient, historical issue matters, perhaps it is the Chinese people who should actually get priority, rather than some other people? But that is not what I\u2019m actually calling for. What I\u2019m actually saying is that, since the revelation, I sort of got to thinking about this. Three weeks ago, my son was involved in an accident. He was run over by a ute. He was dashed to the hospital, and I was in here, in Parliament, and I couldn\u2019t actually get back home. The next day, when I flew up, he was in hospital in a lot of pain, but when I see stories where Auckland Hospital is apparently giving priority to M\u0101ori and Pasifika patients, does that mean that my son could have had more urgent treatment had he been M\u0101ori or Pasifika? Just because he is not, does that mean I have to wonder \u201CDid he not get the urgency he actually needed?\u201D That is the concern of a lot of migrant populations that I have actually had comments from. They are saying, \u201CDo they need to leave this country to get fair treatment?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003EWhen I was looking at the news about Michael Wood, I went back to his maiden speech. He actually said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CPolitical trust in this country was badly corroded in the 1980s and 1990s by Governments of both stripes that, regardless of what you might think about the contents of their programmes, fundamentally broke faith with their electors.\u201D He also goes on to say, \u201CIn my view, then, one of the core tasks of Government is to ensure that balance is maintained\u2014a fair balance of interests, power, and resources, recognising that an imbalance in any of these areas privileges some and inhibits others from achieving their potential and that such injustice will hurt us all in the end. I believe in a balance between having a clear world view and striving to achieve it, and being open to the ideas of others.\u201D I have to say that that speech probably made a lot of impact, but when you actually consider that, when people think about the race of a person instead of their need for service in our health system, it doesn\u2019t actually provide that fairness, nor the justice that Michael Wood was talking about. I guess it symbolises, and it is actually quite typical of this Government, that what they talk about is not what they actually deliver, and, to me, in reality, it is symbolic of a Government that is a shambles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022 data-id=\u00223f4d4905a6fb459e9a7c5bed47112716\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f4d4905a6fb459e9a7c5bed47112716\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. I really want to take a moment to shout out to our primary industries. You know, we heard earlier tonight about a wonderful record on our primary exports. We know that, despite the significant headwinds that they are facing around, you know, those significant weather events, major international cost pressures, they still managed to crack\u2014what was it, $56.2 billion, something like that\u2014because of their resilience, their commitment, and their ambition. And we are proud as a Government to support them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThis Government proudly invests in our rural communities and our primary sector. We put our money where our mouth is. We know that they are worth investing in because we are the best in the world. I was at a sod-turning the other morning\u2014State Highway 43, the forgotten highway, for some\u2014with Minister Allan. It was a cold but beautiful morning under that mountain. Kahouri Stream Bridge project: $8 million to turn one little single lane on that State highway into a big two-lane bridge. Really great investment, a really great example of building resilience for our rural communities, making sure our school buses can get where they need to go, where our milk tankers and our logging trucks\u2014and also the 13,000 additional tourists we\u2019re going to have, as we tar-seal the Tangarakau Gorge and we get our travellers between Tongariro National Park to Papakura or Taranaki. Really, really great investment in resilience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EAnother event, I was at a couple of weeks ago, another beautiful day in Taranaki\u2014it always seems to happen. I was down at a local\u2019s farm, Bushlies farm, where a whole pile of us turned up to plant 1,005 trees in one morning, in a couple of hours. It was quite boggy, but it was really great to be with my neighbours and being really excited about regenerative farming and restoring and protecting the biodiversity and our wetlands. Our farmers are doing magnificent things, and this Government is fronting up with the resources to support those communities. We are building the capacity and the capability of our people. We make sure that they have the ability to have local, nimble responses. They can identify their needs and they can respond to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThis Government has provided more than $34 million for more than 200 catchment groups, 16 in Taranaki alone. You know, most of those groups started talking about the challenges they had around the water and water quality and soil erosion, and those sorts of things. But now, in Taranaki, we\u2019ve got dung beetles. We\u2019ve got some pretty good dung beetles having a go at fixing up our soil. And we\u2019ve got some really great support going for those who are reaching out to diversify. Food and fibre: it\u2019s not just about milk, any more, in Taranaki; we\u2019ve got hops, we\u2019ve got botanicals. It\u2019s a really exciting place to be living, amongst a community that is so ambitious, and to be able to provide support to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThe last event in the last few weeks that I had the great privilege of being involved in was Fieldays. Another fabulous week of fabulous weather up in the Waikato, and it was really great to see all of this investment that\u2019s happening has built such momentum. The highlight, for me, was going up to the innovation hub and catching up with a couple of my neighbours from down in the southern end of Taranaki - King Country and some constituents from up in the King Country end. It was great to see one of the finalists in the Early-Stage category in the Innovation Awards. Good old Rewild, Nick Jones and his amazing team, who have created\u2014you\u2019re going to love this one, Minister, the \u201CF-Bomb\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c47a1259986440feb0f1646f1b7a7008\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Hey!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6d85d14fd604eaf8c0575561175ee62\u0022\u003EANGELA ROBERTS\u003C/span\u003E: All right! It is the most amazing innovation around trapping mustelids. It\u2019s really exciting stuff. And\u2014[Interruption] yeah\u2014and the team at AgriAI were really excited about sharing their innovation around the machine vision-enabled automatic teat sprayer. Now, this might not sound like something that\u2019s really exciting, but I tell you it is. And there were young, excited scientists in the middle of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003EThis is because we are investing in our primary industries. We\u2019re investing in our people. We\u2019re investing in technology. We\u2019re investing in everything that we need to build the momentum and make sure that we stay in that top spot. We are\u2014did you know this?\u2014the top of the Sustainable Trade Index. It considers environmental and social and economic pillars, so to speak, and it shows that we are working really hard and really effectively at getting to the top, the front of the pack, and making sure we do everything we need to stay there. And I\u2019m really, really pleased to have been part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3bfd69197ce44e99dac971bf6dcd1c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3bfd69197ce44e99dac971bf6dcd1c6\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. You\u2019ve got to be alert at this time of night, I guess, for the general debate, so if others aren\u2019t interested in the opportunity, I will take the opportunity to take a call in this evening\u2019s general debate, which is usually held in the afternoon. I want to focus my short contribution in the general debate this evening on some exciting things that happened in my wonderful electorate of Nelson last week. Alongside having an opportunity to attend Fieldays and join the thousands of people who had a useful shopping experience at the Swanndri shop, we had some exciting developments in Nelson that I do want to share with the House tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe first was that we turned the sod\u2014but with a digger\u2014for the development at Port Nelson for our new slipway upgrade, which has been a project that has had a lot of planning involved in it and has been many years in the making; Port Nelson and Nelson City Council have been working on plans to upgrade the slipway for a very long time. People may not be aware of this, but Port Nelson is the largest seafood processing port in Australasia\u2014it is a huge part of the Nelson economy, it creates thousands of jobs, and I\u2019m really proud, as the granddaughter of a mariner, to be able to continue supporting the work that happens at Port Nelson. The Government has put nearly $10 million into the upgrade of the Nelson slipway, which will help to enable marine engineering jobs to be created and ensure that we can bring the right boats into the port for both processing of seafood but also for maintenance. This sits alongside other investment we\u2019ve made recently that I\u2019m really proud to have advocated for\u2014$2.5 million to the wonderful SnapIT company who kicked off a lot of the work around cameras and boats in New Zealand and are doing amazing work on the world stage, alongside support for our new oceans and fisheries cluster, with a number of companies working together to grow jobs in the oceans and fisheries sector, so that was a wonderful occasion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe following day, we had another wonderful occasion on an issue that is dear to my heart, and that is housing. It was an emotional day to attend and open 14 beautiful new homes that have been built through the Government\u2019s Progressive Home Ownership Scheme, where we\u2019ve put $3 million into this project. Of those homes, 12 will be what we call rent-to-buy homes, and being able to walk through the homes with the children, see the smiles on the faces of the families who painted the inside of the homes; to see the pride that they had in these homes that are theirs. There was one young woman who had been living in a damp, mouldy home with her young son with respiratory issues, and to see him knowing that he was going to have this beautiful, warm, sunny, dry home; it was one of the best days that I\u2019ve had as the local MP. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWe are doing a lot of work around social and community housing in Nelson. In the last week, K\u0101inga Ora have announced 49 homes to go into my community where I live\u2014of Nelson South\u2014alongside another 16 into Nelson City. On Friday, I\u2019m looking forward to spending part of the day visiting a number of new projects run by the Nelson Tasman Housing Trust, some of which are being supported through Government funding as well. So, in total, there\u2019s nearly 100 homes that have either just been completed, are currently being built, or are in the planning stage over the next couple of years in the social and community housing sector, and I just want to note that in Budget 2023, the Government committed to funding for another 3,000 public homes, so it is going to make a real difference to my community of Nelson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also looking forward to some changes coming to our public transport system on 1 August, which has been a shared project between Government and local government, where we\u2019ll get more buses running more frequently and to more locations, and sitting alongside the Government\u2019s commitment to make public transport free for under-13-year olds, and half-price for those under 25, this is going to make a huge difference to people\u2019s ability to access alternative forms of transport. So it\u2019s always a wonderful opportunity to take a short call and just celebrate the achievements of our Labour Government in my wonderful, sunny electorate of Nelson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002263926c757d6240188c2ed4c6f43ff8f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263926c757d6240188c2ed4c6f43ff8f6\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (National\u2014Taranaki-King Country):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call tonight in the general debate, and it\u2019s a pleasure to take it this week, because we\u2019ve just come off the wonderful event of Mystery Creek Fieldays. Being the local member of Parliament for Mystery Creek Fieldays, it was a pleasure to welcome many people here from various parties all the way across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBeing the conservation spokesperson, I took the opportunity this year to do some volunteering in the new sustainability hub, and it was really fascinating, as a volunteer, where you had to go around and we had to visit various sites looking at where their rubbish was able to go; where food waste was able to go, if there was food waste, if it was a site that produced food waste; or, if they had coffee machines, where the dregs from the coffee machines were going. Other volunteers were looking at who came in what sort of cars, and various things were happening\u2014who came by bus, where they came from, just trying to work out the carbon footprint of Fieldays. So it was a pretty engaging experience, and one that I enjoyed. We had the summer Fieldays that rained every day and the winter Fieldays that was pretty fine most days, except for Saturday, so it was beautiful on the first three days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBut I wanted to make a point tonight about conservation, because without our industries, conservation wouldn\u2019t exist, and nor would most of the things that we have today. So it really is time, in our society, to leave some of the idealism behind that we\u2019ve been facing for the last period of time. Because everything that we have, that we own, that we look at, every room we go in\u2014everything in the room that we either eat, wear, or outside that we drive, roads\u2014is either grazed, it\u2019s grown, or it\u2019s extracted from beneath our ground. While climate change is extremely important, I wonder how many young climate protestors go along to these protests and have no idea that the bubbles for their drinks actually come from the gas plant in Kapuni in Taranaki. When we lost Marsden Point, we lost another source of that carbon dioxide. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESo I think it\u2019s worth knowing, when our children are in school and they\u2019re studying these days\u2014that\u2019s when they are in school, and there have been a lot of strikes lately, and some of them haven\u2019t been there a whole lot\u2014that, actually, they need to understand where their food is made, where their drinks are made, how our renewable energy is made. All of the things that we have are made from something that comes from within, on top of, or below the ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s great to be working on things like predator-free, but we wouldn\u2019t have a lot of what we have in predator-free and we wouldn\u2019t have a lot of what we have in our conservation projects if we didn\u2019t have these industries who are contributing. I spent a day with some of the mining industry on the West Coast of the South Island last week as well, just before I went to Fieldays. It\u2019s quite amazing, actually, how they can actually restore the biodiversity. They can actually lift it up now. They can actually mine underneath it, put it back down, wet it, plant extra trees, and it grows again. Of course, they\u2019re not doing that in national parks or where biodiversity is really affected; they\u2019re actually picking pieces of land where they\u2019re able to do it without too much disturbance, and they put it back better than they found it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe conservation estate is 30 percent of our land, so it\u2019s a large geography. It\u2019s either farming, a lot of it is put into energy, and a lot of it is mining, and whether we\u2019re in any of those industries, we all wear boots, and we all have to drive vehicles to get into those distant and far-flung places, but all of us are protecting biodiversity. It needs to be celebrated, because often these industries are pointed at, and farmers do jobs for nature every day, as do our mining industry and as do our infrastructure industry. A lot more offsetting is done out of generosity than many of us would ever, ever recognise. So I think there\u2019s a point where we need to look at our industries and we need to say thank you, because if we drive all of our good industries out of business and we drive our economy of this country down, we will never be able to get to predator-free goals, and we will never have the conservation that we deserve in this country. So I want to shout out to all of our productive industries in New Zealand who do so much work for conservation for us all. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d684feff483c41148bbfb1dc696bc3a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d684feff483c41148bbfb1dc696bc3a4\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, Madam Speaker. The full firearms registry takes effect from this Saturday, 24 June 2023\u2014an absolute taxpayer-funded failure, to be sure. But let\u2019s clear up some misinformation that has been broadcast around the registry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe have a registry in place for pistols, restricted weapons, and collector items. It\u2019s actually been there since the 1992 Arms Regulation changes. In the 1980s, a permit to procure process was in force\u2014that\u2019s where the firearm was registered, and not the person. It was a paper-based system that had a 66 percent error rate, so police asked for it to be scrapped.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe moved, then, to lifetime licences, which was looking at the person. In 1992, we had the Arms Regulations. That introduced the 10-year firearms licences and it also introduced endorsements. Endorsements have been in place, and have been registered, since this time\u2014and they still are. Military-style semi-automatics, pistols, restricted weapons, and collector items have been registered since 1992, and still are registered today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe current registration system is not paper-based; it\u2019s data-driven, and still contains many errors within it. There are concerns around security of information, and rightly so. In December 2019, the police data from their confiscation regime was left open, with owners\u2019 names, addresses, phone numbers, bank account details, and hand-in information accessed. Then there was the wheelie bin that was left behind at the old police station in Vincent Street, Auckland, with around 4,000 licensed firearm owner details inside it. Pages from that wheelie bin were found in the home of a criminal when a search was being undertaken. Many licensed firearm owners do not trust police with this information, and we do have to ask: why should they? Since the start of 2022, police themselves have lost six firearms\u2014a Bushmaster and a Glock 17 are still unrecovered. That\u2019s right: a prohibited firearm and a pistol are still unrecovered, and if in civilian ownership, these would have been registered already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn question time yesterday, the Minister of Police made the statement that once the registry goes live, \u201CIt will be able to map, for the first time, where all firearms are in New Zealand. I believe that this is a good way to find out where the guns are and make sure they are out of the hands of those organised criminal groups who are a danger to our community.\u201D What a load of crock. Mapping for the first time\u2014this isn\u2019t the first time; the first time failed. As for the statement \u201CThis is a good way to find out where the guns are\u201D, well, the police already know where the licensed owners\u2019 guns are. They\u2019ve been in our homes, they\u2019ve interviewed our families, and they\u2019ve checked and approved our security. They know exactly where we are, who we are, and who we live with. What the police and its Minister don\u2019t know\u2014and won\u2019t know, even with registration\u2014is where all the illegally held guns are. We know that 95 percent of firearm charges are laid against people who are not licensed; people who would never use a register because they\u2019re not meant to be in possession of a firearm in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe public are being told that licensed firearm owners are the ones that give gangs guns, and there is no evidence at all of this. Police refused an Official Information Act (OIA) request by saying they don\u2019t capture data on the diversion between licensed and unlicensed people. Maybe some of that diversion came from the 29 gang members on the National Gang List that police did issue a firearms licence for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ELicensing in Canada was meant to cost $2 million; it quickly blew out to $2 billion before the full registry was scrapped. They found 87 percent of firearm homicides were committed with unregistered firearms. It was scrapped due to the extreme cost and lack of effect it was having on gun crime. Justice Thorp, who held an inquiry into firearms use here in New Zealand and who advocated for registration, said it won\u2019t work unless there\u2019s 90 percent compliance. Police answered an OIA admitting that 46 percent of seized firearms had no serial number recorded at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ERegistration will not keep our communities safer. It isn\u2019t even an ambulance at the bottom of the hill; it\u2019s a money pit that Labour are hell-bent on pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into. It doesn\u2019t achieve the objectives of the Arms Legislation Act, which is to keep our community safe. Emphasis needs to be placed on the fit and proper person, and ACT has a bill that will do just that. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f12fbb30e44e4635920bb3160d6f894a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f12fbb30e44e4635920bb3160d6f894a\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister for ACC):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to correct some of what I\u2019ve heard already this evening from the other side of the House. I want to be very clear with the member Melissa Lee\u2019s contribution, who sadly talked about the fate that met one of her family members, and I hope her family member is receiving the care that they deserve. But I want to be very clear: what we are saying here on this side of the House is that we do take equity seriously in the health sector. What we are saying is clearly after COVID-19 there was a backlog in those who were waiting to receive surgery and it was important, in order to address inequities, we had to do something about that waiting list. There are a number of factors that are considered, but the first and primary point to be made is that we trust our doctors to make the right decision so that the person who needs help the most gets that particular service\u2014those in acute need, those in emergency need. And we trust our doctors and back our doctors to be able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EWhat we also know is, just this morning, that side of the House\u2014Mr Luxon, in his interview on Radio New Zealand with Corin Dann, said, \u201Che doesn\u2019t believe the health system is currently designed in a way that discriminates against M\u0101ori and Pasifika.\u201D Well, the first thing I\u2019ll say to that is, actually, he\u2019s right. That\u2019s because this side of the House fixed the inequities in the health system through our health reform. That side of the House wants to get rid of Te Aka Whai Ora\u2014the very system Mr Luxon this morning admits is designed not to discriminate against M\u0101ori. That man and that member and that side of the House might want to check their facts on this. I\u2019m proud that on this side of the House we take equity seriously, whether you are M\u0101ori, whether you are rural\u2014and in fact, you only need to ask the ACT Party about their overpriced stall at the Fieldays and their poor humour and sense of humour in using golf balls to try and make a point. Well, here\u2019s something for them\u2014fore!\u2014because they\u2019re way off the mark, they are so far off the mark. It is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b52be02f29614051881ff0bf7c873acb\u0022\u003EDamien Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. We did not use any golf balls, or any balls at all. They were actually promoted by Groundswell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5bda1e72ed84b74ac5212138b8eef92\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not actually a valid point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a01541f2b6dc4749aad3e0c7aeb8adfc\u0022\u003EDamien Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Well it is, I\u2019m just making a point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224748270f843f4333b72b5bf0d051a60e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in terms of Speakers\u2019 rulings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287a0e51236754475935df907e955aa73\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Fore! That\u2019s another miscued shot. I want to say that on this side of the House, in order to make sure we have equity in our system, we also are asking them to remember our rural community. This side of the House have heard the pleas from our communities in the rural sector who say, \u201CWe deserve better access to healthcare\u201D, and this side is taking it seriously. If you live in poor socio-economic parts of our country\u2014we know where these places are, from electorates in the deep South to the Far North, and we made it clear that we want to prioritise them; and also for our Pasifika community, the evidence is overwhelming, the research is overwhelming. I want to invite members on that side of the House\u2014I can even tee it up for them if they would like; I can tee that golf ball up for them\u2014to get along to a M\u0101ori health provider, spend the day with them, and make sure they truly understand the health needs of our people and our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI want to quote one of the great National Party Ministers in his time, the Hon Chris Finlayson, who said, \u201CWhat is good for M\u0101ori is good for the rest of the country.\u201D And if that side can\u2019t see it, then they are the ones who are short-sighted and continue to use race as a political football in the upcoming election. And I\u2019m not surprised by that\u2014I\u2019m not surprised by that because on that side of the House, all we hear are flip-flops, a backtrack on the policies that they announce, nothing more than rhetoric to appeal to fringe voters. On this side of the House, we are delivering for our country and we will continue to do that and we will be unapologetic about that. We will make sure that our people get what they deserve when they deserve it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud to be surrounded by colleagues who are truly passionate about healthcare, they are passionate about our agricultural sector, they\u2019re passionate about our primary sector. I reflect on National\u2019s policy announcement the other week saying that it\u2019s all going to be about farming and nothing about forestry. Well, forestry providers and forestry owners have already been in touch with me and said, \u201CThe other side got it wrong.\u201D Well done to the Labour Government for making sure that their interests are carried into primary production in this country. I\u2019m looking forward to joining the Prime Minister at the end of this week, alongside our colleague Naisi Chen\u2014who I saw come into the House a little earlier\u2014to go and make sure that New Zealand puts its best foot forward when we engage overseas, to make sure that we continue to look towards high export value, to make sure that our primary products continue to feature on the global market in a way that our people deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we\u2019ve always been clear\u2014we tackle the big challenges. We don\u2019t hide from them, and we don\u2019t hide behind rhetoric; nor do we not hide behind some of the cheap lines and cheap attacks coming from that side of the House. I can\u2019t wait till election day, wh\u0101nau, because it\u2019s coming, and I\u2019ll be there for the fight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bca92123705449ec93a16d8bce5ac4e3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The time for this debate has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002216f7419995dd406f9f735416cb3dcaef\u0022\u003EGrocery Industry Competition Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b77600e386f74a179349eaa7bf15de89\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3332ebb446d478eacf3383cda2995d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3332ebb446d478eacf3383cda2995d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Grocery Industry Competition Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224daeab1dc5d34cd792267252106ef9f4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221145d2919a414e1ab7fb8afb8467b72e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Grocery Industry Competition Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhat a great day it is for ordinary New Zealanders, because today this bill will pass into law. A bill which will clamp down on the excess profits that supermarkets have been making. I want to first of all want to recognise the work that my predecessor, Hon Dr David Clark, did getting this bill into the House and before the select committee. He has been a stalwart and done great work in respect of this bill. It is an absolutely momentous day as we proceed to the final vote, and to pass this important bill, to benefit New Zealand consumers\u2014all New Zealanders\u2014to put money back into their pockets by giving them a better deal at the checkout. This is a key step forward in addressing the cost of living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll say again that this bill is necessary because the Commerce Commission\u2019s market study presented a clear finding: consumers aren\u2019t getting fair deal at the checkout due to systemic competition issues. Consumers deserve a more competitive grocery industry, and this Government has taken action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThere are two clear signs that our grocery markets aren\u2019t working as well as they should. First, excess profits. The profits being made by the big supermarkets, Foodstuffs and Woolworths\u2014they\u2019re taking home between them more than $1 million a day in excess profits, and that\u2019s keeping grocery prices higher. And that\u2019s money\u2014that\u2019s $1 million a day that could be, and should be staying in the pockets of ordinary New Zealanders to help relieve cost of living issues. Second, despite consumer demand for choice and ample room in the market for a third or fourth competitor, we have not seen a new entrant into the grocery market to compete at any scale for more than a decade. And only now that we are taking action are we seeing movement in the market as it becomes clear to prospective new entrants that the time is right, and the ground is fertile. So consumers do deserve a more competitive grocery industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis Government is advancing this Grocery Industry Competition Bill to give consumers a more competitive grocery industry. It signals how serious this Government is and how far we will go, as far is as necessary to ensure Kiwis can buy groceries at affordable prices, and can shop for the range of products that they demand. This bill will regulate the grocery industry to benefit consumers. It creates a Grocery Commissioner to monitor and regulate the industry and to keep the New Zealand public informed of what is happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt provides a platform for retailers to enter and expand in the grocery industry by imposing requirements on the duopoly to facilitate commercial arrangements for the wholesale supply of groceries, and there\u2019s a flexible toolkit of backstop measures if it doesn\u2019t work. So there\u2019s more to be done. We will remain vigilant in this space. So this will allow the commission and the Government to impose additional regulation if necessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt also provides new protections for suppliers through introducing a grocery supply code to limit the ability of the duopoly to pressure suppliers into accepting contracts that are one-sided. The days of onerous contracts foisted on suppliers are gone. We recognise that a fair market for suppliers is a fair market for consumers, and we will look to ensure this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis bill has real aims and real ambitions, and we are making progress. Success will exist when there are grocery retailers genuinely and vigorously competing against each other, and we are starting to see that happen, and we are seeing fairer prices already. Success is an innovative grocery industry that provides consumers with clever ways of shopping, saves time and effort. Success is that consumers have choice to do the full weekly shop at a single store beyond just those owned by both Foodstuffs and Woolworths, and paying a fair price at the checkout. Success is when small, locally owned suppliers have more options of grocery retailers that they can sell into for fair prices to get them to consumers. And success is when the excessive rise of grocery prices that we have seen, which have been rising faster than inflation, starts to level off\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dce33ff4fcc14ba684e457d958f7f0ac\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Off you go then\u2014off you go and take your inflation with you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaaec97150cf410a8df9bd75f48c646b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and that\u2019s something that we are seeing now as well, Simon Court. Yes, that\u2019s right. It\u2019s working. We are making progress. We are a Government of change who sees a problem and addresses it. We are not a party that goes backwards and stands still like on the other side of the House. This is a problem that has been coming for a while and the other side of the House did nothing, has done nothing in the competition space because it likes to look after its mates. But we will not. We will take on the difficult problems of our economy, and we will use the Commerce Commission to do it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESuccess looks like having a Grocery Commissioner in place, and I am very confident that it will be a highly competent Grocery Commissioner with a very specific set of skills, and a high degree of expertise in this sector, and also the passion, the desire, and the competence to make the change that is necessary. I want to say that, for suppliers, success looks like a grocery supply code that addresses the critical pain points they\u2019re facing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIf you wanted to do something useful, Mr Court, go and look at the exposure draft of that code and have some input into how to make the rules fair for everyone. Not just for big business, but for small and medium sized business as well, so that the economy works well and at the checkout people are paying the right price for the best goods and the best service. That\u2019s the main thing, though. This is a massive shift for all of consumers so that they will get the best price, the best quality, the best range. I do want to thank the National Party for seeing that this is a useful piece of legislation, for embarking on this in a constructive manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EYou know, so what we are seeing\u2014we are already seeing early signs of success. Costco\u2014admittedly a large multinational, but it\u2019s seen that the time is right to compete in this market. We haven\u2019t seen a new entrant to the grocery sector for decades. The Labour Government signals that it\u2019s making change and we see a new entrant. What\u2019s more, we see Supie, an online-only retailer doing something innovative and new. The time is right. The ground is fertile, we are having a competitive market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThere are at least six retailers who have signed wholesale supply agreements in with these large supermarket chains, because we are making them do it, we\u2019re making the supermarkets sell their groceries to other retailers at fair prices. The Warehouse is investing in a grocery range. It has aggressively entered the market. You\u2019ll have seen their products at lower prices to entice people into their stores. It\u2019s working. What we are doing is boldly addressing what\u2019s been a long-term structural issue throughout this sector. We are laying the foundations for much-needed change. And as more players enter the market over time as unit pricing comes in\u2014another step\u2014this will increasingly stimulate competition on value, and customers will have better access. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut look, this is an important step. I do want to thank the select committee under the leadership of Naisi Chen and, prior to her, Jamie Strange for the hard work, and the members on that committee. But most importantly members of the public who had a say and who moved to make improvements to this bill and who will hopefully see the benefits of it. So thank you to all the New Zealanders who have written to me and spoken about your experiences in supermarkets, and the fact that the cost of living is causing a strain. We\u2019ve heard you. We\u2019re making changes, and you will see a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m delighted to tell you all that this Government will be passing a bill\u2014this bill, which will have a real and positive impact on your lives every day, and on your weekly grocery shop. We can all look forward to the grocery shop being easier on the pockets with less of the hard-earned cash of everyday New Zealanders going to supermarkets. It will stay where it should: in your pockets. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u002290b2a59808b54783a06feaf0112e8b62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290b2a59808b54783a06feaf0112e8b62\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002289684574c5c64b99a155921e05f3bc74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289684574c5c64b99a155921e05f3bc74\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to be talking on this third reading of the Grocery Industry Competition Bill. I think that the Minister, who, with all due respect, has been a Minister for a very short period of time, will come to regret some of the statements he made in that speech. I think it was over-exuberant, and I suspect he\u2019s got carried away with officials telling him what a great job he\u2019s doing. Actually, I think a much more pragmatic and business-like focus should be applied to this particular bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo on that note, we have supported this bill, and we have worked closely with the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. And I\u2019ve got to commend the chair and the members of the select committee on both sides of the House who worked proactively to try and improve this bill as much as possible. But I\u2019m not going to stand here tonight and say this is the panacea for everyone who is suffering from a cost of living crisis. What we hope to achieve by this bill is some improvements in the grocery trade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI just want to go through some of the big issues for us. The first one, and we have repeatedly asked the Minister about this, and the former Minister who was responsible for this bill\u2014the first critical success factor for this bill is the appointment of someone with the requisite skills and expertise as the Grocery Commissioner. What we mean by that is we do not want to see necessarily someone who\u2019s a lawyer or an economist who has a smattering of knowledge around the grocery trade. Actually, what we prefer is someone with bucket loads of information and experience and who has worked in the grocery trade, who may actually have those other skills, such as legal or economic skills. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EIf the Minister does not make that a proper appointment, that will be the first and major failing of this bill, and I will hold him to his words\u2014what he has just spoken about and what he said last night in the committee of the whole House\u2014that the appropriate person will be recruited. Because if they are not, then this whole bill faces the prospect of actually not getting off and actually leading to a better outcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second thing is it is necessary that an appropriate grower supplier code is put in place and, of course, there\u2019s a tension between growers and suppliers and supermarkets. So what I\u2019d just say to everyone is that this is not simply about making sure that we\u2019ve got a fair price. It is also about making sure that there are fair terms and conditions, and it\u2019s actually around the terms and conditions of supply and how that\u2019s arranged and the fees that go alongside it\u2014that is where you need an experienced Grocery Commissioner to be able to see through what is really happening and the different mechanisms that could be possibly imposed in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOur view is that that document should not lie in the hands of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE), and National\u2019s fought hard to make sure that that document becomes a living, breathing document. And I\u2019m glad that the select committee agreed that the initial draft should be done by MBIE, in the interests of time, but the responsibility for updating it and keeping that document live should rest with the Commerce Commission and particularly the Grocery Commissioner. Because that person will see firsthand what is happening and be able to react to it quickly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second thing is we were concerned about having an effective dispute mechanism. I\u2019m glad again that the committee agreed to the change. We wanted to make sure that there was a quick process to resolve disputes, so not to rely on a court process, and, of course, that was what had been envisaged originally in the bill. There was some resistance. I\u2019m glad now that we have an alternative dispute procedure for disputes under $5 million, because I think if there is a dispute between a supplier and the supermarket, having a quick resolution around that is absolutely crucial. And I think that is an improvement to the bill that we were happy to push through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe next area is the role of the Commerce Commission in monitoring the activities of supermarkets. This has been widened, this monitoring role, not only in terms of overseeing the grocery aspects of the supermarkets, but also to deal with potential new markets or products or services they provide, such as the sale of TVs. Obviously, supermarkets do fuel sales, and we agree with the change which futureproofed the legislation by allowing the Commerce Commission to have regard for all products and services sold by the supermarkets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ENow, the next thing I want to turn to is the issue of wholesale supply. This is where I think the Minister, himself, got carried away in his speech because this is a significant issue. It was proposed that by the Commerce Commission that supermarkets should be required to offer wholesale pricing arrangements and supplier arrangements to competing companies that want to offer grocery around the country. This now enshrines the involvement in supermarkets and wholesale supply\u2014so, obviously, it\u2019s not arranging their own supply but offering it to third parties. This is the most contentious, in my view, and the most dangerous part of this bill, and we have some concerns about this particular aspect. Because if we get it wrong and we enshrine that right, and it ends up not delivering the outcomes for competitive suppliers, what this bill has done and what the whole intent of this is to actually legitimise a downstream movement by those supermarkets from the supplier right through to the end retail. And, of course, there\u2019s the logistical aspect involved in the delivery of wholesale products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ELabour was very keen to support that. I think our support is much more reticent around that, and I think one of our major concerns about this is that it removes the opportunity for third party markets. If I give an example: for the supply of groceries or vegetables such as lettuces or whatever, traditionally they used to go to a market such as Turners and Growers in Auckland, and it was an open, transparent market. With these new wholesale arrangements, those suppliers will now have to bid into a Countdown or a Foodtown arrangement. They will know their personal bid and the volume they\u2019re prepared to do, but only the supermarket will know what the result of the entire bid process is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThat means that there\u2019s a potential that we\u2019re going to lose the independents and the transparency of those important markets, such as the fresh vegetable market. Again, what this means is there\u2019s an enshrinement of a further degree of control by the supermarkets. So I\u2019d just say to the Minister, in his wonderful enthusiasm, that this is a key issue. And again, if the Grocery Commissioner does not have good oversight and does not ensure that this aspect of competition is protected and nurtured and continues, then we really have ended up in a poor situation in respect to these bill proposals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe other side of this is that we were very keen that in terms of wholesale the definition included not just the supermarket itself in terms of its wholesale arrangements but any arrangements they may have either through subsidiaries, through partnerships, or any entities which they may control. That\u2019s not necessarily an ownership issue. It might be through market control of that entity. And that was, again, a very specific change that National pushed for in the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut look, in the interests of time, I want to say that we are supporting the bill. It\u2019s essential that we get the right person. We will monitor the wholesale aspect very, very closely. But the last thing is, if it fails, the Minister said we\u2019re going to regulate more. That is not what National supports. This bill already has a significant amount of legislation. The prospect of just legislating more, in my view, will not work. We believe that there may be a need to look at restricting some activities of the supermarket, but if this does not work well in future, we\u2019ll keep an open mind on that. However, only time will tell whether this will deliver discernible benefits for hard-pressed families in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9c93166ee4b46718bffef6c43752248\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9c93166ee4b46718bffef6c43752248\u0022\u003ENAISI CHEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m incredibly proud today to be in the House to pass such an important bill. And I do congratulate the Minister, Hon Dr Duncan Webb, and the Hon Dr David Clark, as well, for shepherding through this bill, and incredibly proud to have been chairing the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. As my colleague across the House has painstakingly gone over all of the details that our select committee has considered during the process, I won\u2019t go over it again, but I do thank the National Party as well for their cooperation during the consideration of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EI love supermarkets\u2014I do have emotional connection to them. The only Pak \u2019N Save in North Shore was open in Albany, which used to be quite a far away place. But my piano teacher used to live in Albany, and so once a week I would go to my piano lesson and then after piano lesson our whole entire family\u2014my parents and my grandparents\u2014would come and pick me up and go to the supermarket in Albany. So it was always a great experience, and I would always get to pick up an ice-cream or something\u2014a treat at the end to reward me for having practised my piano that week. And as we went into lockdown, the supermarket became the only place I could go to leave the house, really, and to have some sort of excitement in life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EBut as we went through the market study for supermarkets, we saw, I guess, a more sinister side, a darker side to the supermarket industry\u2014that $1 million of profit per day that the two supermarket chains are now harvesting. In a hard time like this, we have to do something about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc477162-e622-4c94-add7-36a586729e51\u0022\u003EAs the Minister has mentioned, this is a bill to make sure that all New Zealand consumers are being given a fair deal at the checkout. But to me, also, this bill is about making sure we give our suppliers, our farmers, and our growers a fair deal as well. I can never forget the time when I went into one of my colleagues Ingrid Leary\u2019s electorate and met with some of our farmers, and they said, \u201CWell, milk prices haven\u2019t grown and the prices are getting more expensive in the supermarket. Where has the money gone?\u201D Well, here it is. We\u2019re showing it. And this is also to our growers who are market gardeners. I come from a community full of market gardeners, and we have a proud tradition of feeding New Zealand in the Chinese community. So this is to our dairies, to our veggie shops, to everyone here in New Zealand, this is a great bill that will change New Zealanders\u2019 lives, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u00226a18354d41fb42dc89a2cc25d31e2405\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a18354d41fb42dc89a2cc25d31e2405\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a good thing to be able to rise and talk on this bill, the Grocery Industry Competition Bill. I\u2019ve listened to the Minister and the chair of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee and also our fantastic Andrew Bayly, talking on this so far. The sentiment in the House is that this is something we support, and I will reiterate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EIt is a true statement that people are paying far too much for their groceries at the moment. It is a really significant undertaking for families, and they go in there and they are coughing up. I looked at a block of cheese the other day. I was stupid enough to pick up the Tasty from Mainland, the 1-kilo block\u2014it\u2019s a great cheese; yes, it is\u2014but the price of $20 really smacked me, and I thought \u201CCrikey, that is an extremely expensive block of cheese.\u201D I rightly put it back and went for the more budget block Colby version. I\u2019m sure there are many families around the country who are doing exactly the same, or probably going even further and just leaving the cheese altogether. And it\u2019s not just cheese; if we look across all grocery items, over the past 12 months, they are up over 12 percent. We are in a cost of living crisis\u2014we really are. We look at fresh fruit and vegetables: up 22.5 percent over the past 12 months. That is significantly above the Consumers Price Index (CPI), which is running incredibly hot anyway, the hottest it\u2019s been for 30 years\u2014since I can remember anyway. Families out there are doing it really tough, so it is prudent upon this House that it does take some steps to make it a little bit easier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is quite unique in the situation that over 90 percent of our supermarkets come under a duopoly: Foodstuffs and Woollies. That does enable them to enter into arrangements, or whatever it may be, where prices are kept high and kept probably a little bit higher than where they need to be. At the moment, the sentiment coming back is that they are well above what families can tolerate. I mean, that is also just the net result of a cost of living crisis that has been largely fuelled by a reckless Government that has spent far too much money and fuelled inflation\u2014reckless monetary policy that has pumped significant sums of money into the economy\u2014and inevitably that has flowed into what is now persistently high inflation, and a lot higher than what our peers have, who have dropped away. We are still persistently high, and groceries are no exception; in fact, they are above the CPI, and they don\u2019t really show any sign of abating. So, look, it is a good thing that we are here to encourage a bit more competition in what is a very stifled industry, and it is generally supply-side constraints that are leading to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EI like the way that the Commerce Commission did stop covenants that prohibited the development of new supermarkets in certain areas. There needs to be developments of those new supermarkets. There are high entry barriers, so breaking them down is a positive thing. I recall my time living in Sydney. There were numerous supermarkets around. Down the road, there was a Woollies, and it had a fantastic cheese room, probably not one that you\u2019d want to go into these days, although I do note that prices over there were significantly cheaper due to the competition. When I went back there earlier this year, I noted the same again. You walk into a New Zealand supermarket and you get a bit of a shock, which is what I try and do at least once a month. I get out there and take the shopping list off my wife and go out there and fill up the trolley. Not only is it an excellent way to get a bit of publicity with a National Party jacket on my back, looking like the everyday man, it gives my wife a break, and I get to understand what the current prices are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EOne of the good things about living in Sydney was that there were numerous supermarkets. You had your Coles, you had your Woollies, you had your ALDIs\u2014you also had Costco. One of my best mates over there was going out to Costco. He signed up and he got the card\u2014and, TJ, if you\u2019re watching this on the northern beaches, I\u2019m sure you enjoy going there and stocking up your freezer full of meat, and he certainly did. But I was quite lucky where I lived, in Edgecliff. There was an ALDI and a Coles very close by. So I\u2019d go into the ALDI occasionally and top up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2a3682dd38a479db2dc716d71c372ea\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ll never come to New Zealand while the foreign direct investment rules sterilise them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e51b0100edf4498b999eb36f608e8a9\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: And I like the point that\u2019s come out of the ACT party. They occasionally pipe up with some good rhetoric, and that was good from Simon Court. There are challenging foreign direct investment rules, and there are challenging Resource Management Act (RMA) rules. The RMA is extremely prohibitive in New Zealand, and it really\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298f7c44f28284bda992236ec5e0c432c\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s reform it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0299e3f48d643f1959f21e4af29f922\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CLet\u2019s reform it.\u201D, we hear from the other side of the House. I agree; let\u2019s reform it. Let\u2019s just not reform it with what this Government is proposing. We will have the opportunity hopefully very soon. But the competition is as essential\u2014it really is\u2014and, without it, it\u2019s extremely difficult for everyday Kiwis to get ahead. We saw on the news tonight they\u2019re now paying over $600 a week in rent. It\u2019s gone up about 10 percent in the last year. I mean, that\u2019s a really, really tough environment for families. You\u2019ve got core staples, accommodation, and food prices that keep going up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EI just want to note to a point that Andrew Bayly very sensibly raised when he spoke, and that\u2019s about ensuring that the appointment of the commissioner is the correct appointment. I\u2019ve mentioned in this House before my reservation and trepidation about the appointment of people on to the board of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand probably lacking the experience, the prudential understanding, to govern what is one of our most important institutions. If we can\u2019t get it right there, I\u2019m not necessarily filled to the brim with confidence that we can get it right in this instance. But I note the Minister\u2014and also the Minister who I was chatting with in the gym a little bit earlier this evening. We were talking about this bill. I know the Minister will be very keen to see this succeed, as we all will be, to make sure that the right appointment is made into the role of the commissioner, because that is really important, to give confidence to the sector, to give confidence to the National Party, which is, in good faith, backing this bill, because we do want to see more competition. We do want to see the cost of living on staples come down\u2014on everything but on things that are unavoidable: food, groceries being absolutely essential\u2014and also to make sure that, when the commissioner does insert themselves into the market, they do so in the right manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EHopefully, we get the nod in a few months\u2019 time and we can continue working with this commissioner. So let\u2019s all work together on this and make sure that we get the right person in there for continuity\u2019s sake and to ensure that the robustness of the system can continue. I support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022769d5c7c3d0d4b6da6a10cfdffe4014c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022769d5c7c3d0d4b6da6a10cfdffe4014c\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to take this call. It\u2019s lovely, as the previous speaker Sam Uffindell, the everyday man, spoke about his Tasty cheese. I\u2019m impressed he does go to the supermarket occasionally. I like to admit that I am the everyday man as well. Even though I am a member of Parliament now, I still shop the same way I\u2019ve always shopped, and that is that bargain hunter that goes from supermarket to supermarket and from grocer to grocer to get that deal of that small block of cheese or that lettuce or that carrot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ESo when I when I look around and do my shopping, it is always interesting to see what is around and what we have. Hence, this piece of legislation around the Grocery Industry Competition Bill is necessary, as I get around and look at the different suppliers and look at the different retailers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge Roebuck Farm, who is a local supplier. I know the piece of the legislation I want to mention briefly is around how this bill provides new protections to suppliers in terms of how the code is to limit the ability of the duopoly to pressure suppliers into accepting contracts that are wholly one-sided. In the small growers\u2014the small makers\u2014that is important and that is necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the Hon David Clark, who initially brought this to the House, and then the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I believe this is his first piece of legislation as a Minister that will be becoming into law\u2014so congratulations on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWe in the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee worked hard on this. I was grateful that we were able to bring it back to the House in support, working together, which is something that generally happens\u2014we get on most of the time. But I\u2019m excited that the Grocery Industry Competition Bill will become legislation, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022 data-id=\u00222d29c9d4023848d6a4f609e9987db52c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d29c9d4023848d6a4f609e9987db52c\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E It is an honour tonight to be here for this bill and to have the two Ministers responsible for its passage through the House. The bill itself does claim to seek to improve competition and efficiencies in the grocery sector on behalf of the benefits of consumers, and it responds to some of the recommendations of the Commerce Commission\u2019s market study into New Zealand retail grocery stores. I did invite Mr Webb to come to see Costco with me, but he never took me up on that, and I was just wondering, had he been there yet or not to finalise this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cc0badecf4c43568d08070c27af175a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: If you yield\u2014I\u2019ll answer if you want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237a6aa5cac9b4e108ae1440f3a071fa8\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I asked you to come with me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea7e35a0a8cb4af28f0bd789cff14866\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want me to answer that question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e118fb0c5d604c87a71cc3e5e7408a3d\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No. You know, we\u2019ll have ultimate confidence in this bill once Michael Wood buys shares in the Australian supermarket industry, so we can get some piece of the action here in New Zealand. So as a Labour Party broker\u2014and, as David Seymour says, a broker could be his next profession. We believe that that would be a confidence measure of extreme standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003ETex Edwards, from the consumer-busting-commerce organisation, said this is \u201Cfantasy legislation\u201D written by lobbyists and would create a \u201CDisneyland\u201D department within the Commerce Commission. It represents what\u2019s weak about public policy in New Zealand. And his view, and I tend to share this, is that instead of having bitty business models like Costco does\u2014a certain type of structure\u2014what the public is looking for is a like-for-like third party operator that comes to New Zealand to give consumers a better offer, and I don\u2019t think this bill facilitates that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EDoes the Minister believe that forcing supermarkets to act as wholesale suppliers to their competitors would discourage the international food retailers from entering the New Zealand market? I think it would, and I think if you look\u2014it needs a complete repeal of the Resource Management Act. Nobody from the Overseas Investment Office was consulted about this bill, and, you know, we\u2019d certainly like to see some work in the future to build on this document which would cover those areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022406272340a354e13a7b2730848f86670\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Welcome to the 1970s!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db7bbea45f2f41abaa3dc01bcff5cfc0\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re the one that was talking about fixing profits for an organisation like a supermarket.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003ESo the Minister doesn\u2019t show any concern that all that requiring supermarkets to act as wholesale suppliers to their competitors would encourage existing new retailers to raise their prices to cover losses\u2014this may occur as a result, but nobody\u2019s done that analysis. In terms of international examples, nobody in the advisory panel has been able to show compulsory Government pricing isn\u2019t effective to increasing competition. So, will this bill provide for greater incentives for international food retailers to come here; enter New Zealand? Well, if you don\u2019t remove the overseas investment approval process for OECD countries\u2014which my bill proposed, which was shot down by the Labour Party, or easing the consents process to build new supermarkets, what is the possibility over the next 10 years of new entrants coming here? And I don\u2019t think the answer is rosy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EDoes the Minister believe also that to increase new market entrants, the Government should have actually opened the door to embrace new business models? I\u2019m a big fan of the Asian supermarket chains in this country; I think they could be expanded into something quite competitive, and I looked at their prices, and I\u2019m sure Naisi Chen would support me on this: they are very competitive in terms of domestic produce. So there is something going on there which we don\u2019t know about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EBut a box is a box; and IT systems, fridges, a management system, and staff is what makes supermarkets in the right location work. So food price inflation comes from regulating farmers, it being too expensive to get water, local regulation bodies\u2014and that\u2019s why we\u2019ve got food price inflation in this country. It isn\u2019t that there isn\u2019t enough supermarkets and where they\u2019re situated; it\u2019s the input side of the process. Local suppliers with big brands and lazy product development: are they going to provide price competition? Well, supermarkets is a good example where it\u2019s the fast-moving consumer goods product marketers that said that and the margins are pretty standardised. So what you\u2019re paying for is either a smaller impact now or a bigger price, which is set by the international conglomerates to profit from New Zealanders, not necessarily the supermarket chains. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EIn terms of where we go from here, we believe that over the next five years for new entrants, even if the Commerce Commission has recommended against designation, that would mean an entrant like ALDI could be compelled to supply all of its competitors with products from all these global supply chains at regulated prices. But if the Minister believes it to be in the public interest, does the Government believe that it should encourage potential entrants like ALDI\u2014and why would ALDI even consider coming here with the kind of risks hanging over it to get a supermarket chain built? In terms of capital, you probably need $100 million just to buy sites in this country; trying to get through the regulatory process and local authority level is next to impossible. And, you know, some of those things are what is stopping people coming to this country, and that is stopping competition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003EJust to talk about Land Information New Zealand, it reported no conversations as of October 2022\u2014and I stand to be corrected on this by the Minister\u2014with the Government about grocery entries. If more grocery retail entries is in the public interest, shouldn\u2019t the Overseas Investment Office be directed to consider grocery retail entry as being the public interest? And isn\u2019t that the role of the Minister to direct that organisation to facilitate new entrants to this market to fulfil the bill\u2019s ambition, which is more consumer choice, more consumer confidence, and better prices? How does this Government believe that a regulator can set and enforce regulated prices across thousands of individual grocery products\u2014many of which will be perishable and of varying quality? Mr Clark, when he gets his bike and goes cycling round Dunedin, and maybe he can put the white coat on in the afternoon and go and check the prices and report back through an algorithm about what is actually happening in the real world. Because I know Mr Webb goes to Moore Wilson\u2019s and doesn\u2019t see the harsh reality of life in New Zealand for the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003ESo we will not be supporting this bill. The overview of industry competition is very simplistic, and we believe there\u2019s still an iteration after this where the major entities\u2014which are the supermarket chains\u2014should be made to face up to a like-for-like third party operator who can give them a run for their money and who actually can bring real competition to the New Zealand market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022483ef89f6e194293b3efacf22780c473\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022483ef89f6e194293b3efacf22780c473\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019d like to begin by\u2014I won\u2019t even try to begin my speech by having some anecdotal account of shopping at the supermarket, because the reality is, it\u2019s not so much about our experience shopping that has led to this bill, the Grocery Industry Competition Bill, but many low-income communities who are struggling to put food on the table has created a conversation in Parliament and now legislative measures to ensure that there\u2019s better competition in the supermarket industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe have supported this bill through the different stages of the House, and I acknowledge the collegial nature of the select committee process to have a bill that would create better regulation and oversight around the behaviour of supermarkets, also being able to have measures to address disputes where, for example, a grocery supplier or a wholesale consumer and a regular grocery retailer may be having issues. And all is well and fine, because it will, in the long term, ensure that the smaller players are able to\u2014should capitalism work as intended\u2014provide cheaper goods and services for people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI know a lot of the conversation here has been around access to fresh kai, and I acknowledge that supermarkets also serve as a point of sale for other types of products. But focusing on the food and fresh produce more specifically, I do think that supermarkets, as a concept, where our communities access fresh food, a relatively new construct. I think it\u2019s worth understanding that, actually, for many of our communities, you don\u2019t have to go back that many generations ago to realise that the supply chains were not so controlled by a duopoly and one that, despite all of the attempted green-washing efforts to work with food-rescue operations and what not, ultimately is putting profit as paramount. That is what has led, in my view, beyond the inflationary pressures to supermarkets putting food prices up at the expense of people while people are facing a high cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis is why, particularly with this sort of profit-seeking behaviour at the expense of everything else, it is important that we do have things like regulatory backstop tools that can be applied to start looking breaking up some of those bigger players and ensuring that they don\u2019t control such a big share of the market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut beyond that, I think we need to ask\u2014after the passage of this legislation\u2014what comes next? Because it will take some time for the impacts of this bill to be seen in our communities, but we also need to\u2014and I acknowledge that no one here has said that this bill be some sort of panacea or silver bullet, but we still, as a country, don\u2019t have a long-term food strategy. We don\u2019t have enough funding for even things like mahinga kai or urban food gardens or greater strategies around publicly-owned food markets, where growers can take their produce directly to consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAnd so, I guess, in having support of the Government\u2019s measures of this bill, I do want to leave my final contribution in this legislation as a point of encouragement for the Government to treat access to food as a fundamental human right and to invest in access to food beyond the control of supermarkets to ensure that this doesn\u2019t happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI guess I want to give a shout-out to, well, the previous Minister, but the current one, Duncan Webb, specifically, because I think we\u2019re going to have a conversation that I think will, ultimately, be so related to this bill and Duncan Webb\u2019s other member\u2019s bill, Companies (Directors Duties) Amendment Bill, and I look forward to having the conversation about whether we can force to company directors to look at things beyond profit, because I think this will, actually, really marry up what we\u2019re trying to do in this bill, to actually put forward those really, really important questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe support this bill, we look forward to improving the regulations set out here and, hopefully, continue receiving feedback from consumers and our communities around the impacts of this bill when it comes to access to affordable food.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022a85765e0b23b49daad03490cc65d91fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a85765e0b23b49daad03490cc65d91fb\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E The problem that this bill solves or seeks to solve is that until now the supermarkets have been making in excess of $1 million profit per day. I think there\u2019s agreement across the House that this is unacceptable. How to dismantle the duopoly is a much more difficult question, and this legislation seeks to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe work of the select committee was to really ensure that the legislation was fit for purpose. I sat on that select committee\u2014on the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee\u2014and we looked particularly at the wholesale supply regime. I want to commend the collegiate work that happened, especially looking at the contractual arrangements and the complex business arrangements that major players in the market have done in order to be able to work around the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EBecause, at the end of the day, we as politicians can stand here and say that it is unethical or immoral to get excess profits, but actually that\u2019s how capitalism works. The rules have to be fair and they have to be proportionate. Clearly they haven\u2019t been, and what this bill is seeking to do is to correct that. It\u2019s a brave and a bold move, and something to be commended. I\u2019m really excited to see what is going to happen over time to make grocery prices fairer for everyday New Zealanders as a result of this. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec1f0c59f1c04132bddce12fae277b60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec1f0c59f1c04132bddce12fae277b60\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. Five minutes\u2014the Hon David Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022 data-id=\u002238d57f7fbae645508b110d057132b0c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238d57f7fbae645508b110d057132b0c9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID BENNETT (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The National Party is supporting this bill but personally I just struggle to see how it\u2019s actually going to achieve its purpose. You know, everybody has a choice where they want to buy their fruit and vegetables. Nobody forces you to go to one of the two supermarket chains to get your fruit and vegetables, and you can actually get them cheaper if you go to the local greengrocer down the road. When you go to the supermarkets, you\u2019ve got a choice. You can go to the very little ones where you\u2019re paying more for convenience, or you can go for the bigger ones, and you can go for your shopping and decide to get that when it\u2019s on special and that when it\u2019s not. So nobody forces anybody to go to a supermarket; you\u2019ve got that choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003EThe reality is that a Labour Government getting involved in any business is bad news. I just can\u2019t see it work when the Labour Government gets involved in any business; it\u2019s just how they operate. There are two things that I think people should be aware of in regard to our fruit and vegetables at the moment. Fruit and veggies are probably the bit that we all expect New Zealand to be able to produce. The reality is that our fruit and veggie growers do not get a return on their investment. You look at k\u016Bmaras at the moment\u2014completely destroyed because of the weather this year. Very expensive; going to be very expensive next year as well. Those growers don\u2019t get the return to satisfy a business that\u2019s got to continue long term. Let\u2019s actually be real about it. If we want to do that kind of thing, we need to give the growers the return they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESecondly, if you look at what\u2019s actually happening in the sector, especially in the fruit and veggie market, the supermarkets are becoming very dependent on one or two suppliers on purpose, because they can regulate control of price and of quality, and this bill actually accelerates that. It gives them the power to be the wholesaler to other players that come into the market. The very thing that they\u2019ve done in the last decade in their market is actually what this bill actually accelerates. It helps them in their market plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eaf79431-1033-44f1-a633-22633da52c0d\u0022\u003ESo we are supporting it because we need to see something done in this area; there\u2019s no doubt about it. I know that the Labour Party have got it wrong. They have got it wrong as normal. All they\u2019re doing is actually helping the supermarkets make more money. They are actually accelerating the economic gain that they have undertaken in the last decade, and nobody is forced to go to a supermarket and buy their fruit and veggies. You have a choice. Exercise your choices, consumers. Be smart about your money, and you will actually be able to save. You do not need a Labour Government to make your savings on your daily spend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4211bd1798d4aa8bf64e84374f45270\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4211bd1798d4aa8bf64e84374f45270\u0022\u003ESTEPH LEWIS (Labour\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E On this side of the House, we are focused on the bread and butter issues that New Zealanders care about. Quite literally, this bill is aimed at reducing the cost of bread and butter for New Zealanders at the supermarket. That is why I am supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022288783df-ade6-42d2-bd21-06ffa87dedf8\u0022\u003EIn all seriousness, as someone who grew up in a household who at times watched my parents have to decide whether it was pay for food for us kids or pay for petrol for dad to get to work\u2014so as we had an income the next week\u2014I am very proud that this Government is tackling another big issue head-on to try and reduce the cost of living pressures that Kiwis are facing. We\u2019re doing that for groceries. We\u2019re doing that for the fuel industry as well. So I have absolutely no hesitation in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u002251ed50241a8c423d8e917dc6a7f6ca7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251ed50241a8c423d8e917dc6a7f6ca7a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is a good day. I want to track back right to the beginning of this legislation and think about the market study that kicked us off: the market study that was supported by the Labour Government in order to really get to the bottom of competition issues in this country. I want to acknowledge the Commerce Commission for their work, Anna Rawlings, and our current Chair of the Commerce Commission, John Small, for the analysis that led to the actions that this Government is taking. They have made a real difference through their work under quite a lot of time pressure and through some robust conversations with the sector and some extraordinarily good analysis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to also acknowledge the effect of the market studies on the actual behaviour of the sector. We saw, before this legislation went through, the acceptance of unit pricing, the acceptance of a Grocery Commissioner, and the acceptance of a grocery code. We saw price freezes in the sector, and we\u2019ve seen what scrutiny in the sector can provide. I anticipate that that appointment of a Grocery Commissioner at the appropriate time will see future developments in the sector as the sector understands what it means to be watched, to be scrutinised, and to see real competition in the marketplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to congratulate the Hon Dr Duncan Webb and his team, and all of the excellent officials who have worked on this bill because they have done some superb work. Those officials\u2014they were excellent. When I had the privilege of leading this bill to the House, they were superb, they were robust, and they were thoughtful. We disagreed on some things, but we worked hard to find solutions that would be in the interests of New Zealanders and we got there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EAs a Government, we decided that we would accept the majority of the Commerce Commission\u2019s findings. We disagreed with them on a couple. We think that a regulatory backstop is actually what\u2019s needed to make the difference in the market, and we had acknowledgments from the sector subsequently that that actually is the thing that will make a difference. We also wanted to see more regular reporting through from the Grocery Commission, because we think New Zealanders deserve to know what\u2019s going on in that sector and deserve to understand how competition is improving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI want to then also just briefly acknowledge some of the people who worked very directly on this bill in its preparatory phases. I want to acknowledge Jonathan Gee, Sam Farrell and Melissa Turner in my office, who worked very long hours to make this the best bill it could be. I want to acknowledge Katherine Rich, Jon Duffy, and Tex Edwards. I actually want to acknowledge also the duopoly leaders, Chris Quin and Spencer Sonn, for the conversations\u2014the grown-up conversations that we had to have along the way. The likes of Matt Lane as well, The Warehouse, Supie, Circle K\u2014actually, everybody who contributed through the select committee process to make sure this is the best bill that it can be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EIt is world-leading. It will ensure that New Zealanders pay a fair price at the supermarket, and I wish all of those who are involved now in implementing it the very best. This is a Government that is concerned about the bread and butter issues for New Zealanders, and I\u2019m very proud to have played a part in developing this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022c00ac31a568c4c3eb68b89073424ddeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c00ac31a568c4c3eb68b89073424ddeb\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I must say, listening to that last contribution, I actually thought that we might have heard a retraction of a retirement speech come out there for the Hon David Clark, who I do respect because there\u2019s a few spare seats on the bus opening up on that side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EBut let\u2019s get into the Grocery Industry Competition Bill, third reading\u2014a bill that National will be supporting this evening. As the Minister who was involved in the initial aspects of this bill has articulated, there are a number of components of this bill which will derive value in regards to the overall sector. National have outlined and continue to outline, through the passing of this bill, those aspects and comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI do want to, though, comment on a couple of elements that have been raised by other speakers this evening, in regards to the grocery sector, and a line that has often been used, particularly by that side of the House, in regards to the super profits, or the $1 million per day. I\u2019d like to remind those that make those comments that the period in which those profits were derived were during the pandemic and during the period in which Auckland in particular was locked down for over 100 days. For those that don\u2019t remember or who were outside of Wellington, or particularly living in the South Island, they might not appreciate what it was like living in Auckland. The only place you could buy your groceries in Auckland during that period was from the two major supermarket chains. You couldn\u2019t buy it from your local butcher. You couldn\u2019t go to the local greengrocer. Many of the small operators were closed and you were not able to shop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ESo it doesn\u2019t take a mathematician to work out that if you close down all the other competitive environment and the competitors, then the only place that you have to spend it is within the supermarket. So using this sort of super profits in a period of a pandemic where Auckland is locked down is a little bit rich, to say the least, and potentially not quite a reasonable basis in order to make those assumptions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other fact, just to remind people, is that actually, while we do have two significant players within the grocery sector, one of those players in particular is 100-percent Kiwi-owned. Foodstuffs South Island has 200 stores and employs over 14,000 Kiwis across their entities. Foodstuffs North Island\u2014over 100 years old is that entity\u2014100-percent Kiwi-owned, 330 stores across the country, employing over 24,000 New Zealanders. So when that side of the House attacks the grocery sector, when they attack those two entities in particular, they are by doing that attacking all of those hard-working Kiwis within our Four Squares, our New Worlds, our Pak \u2019N Save, our Countdowns, our FreshChoices, our Gilmours; those that at this hour of the night, no doubt, for those supermarkets that are starting to close, will be doing the night fill shift in terms of stocking those shelves, many of which aren\u2019t on significant high salaries. That side of the House is attacking them and saying that they are all villains.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAnd that is the divisive nature of this Government\u2019s policies. It is a great shame that they need to get into that space, particularly on a bill such as this, which, in essence, at a fundamental level, does have some positive comments. But when it starts to get into this conversation around attacking the profitability of entities, then they need to balance up that aspect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other aspect to raise is that food prices are and continue to increase in this country. But the food price element, running at around 12.1 percent annual inflation, is driven by a number of factors, and to take it that it is solely the supermarkets profiteering that is driving up that food price is simply not the reality. The cost of the inputs into those products is a significant driver, and, again, this Government\u2019s regulation and legislation has in part led to significant increases in costs on businesses in this country. That is a factor of why consumers are paying higher prices when they go to the supermarket checkout and look to get their goods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ELastly, I also want to acknowledge those working in our grocery sector across our country, and I think particularly of those in our urban centres when we see the impact of law and order and crime on our grocery sector and our grocery industry. I don\u2019t see that there are any components of this grocery industry bill that actually deal with one of the most fundamental issues that are facing our grocery sector at the moment, and that is the out-of-control issues around law and order that are happening in the thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EIn my home electorate of the North Shore, at the local Countdown, about three times a week someone walks out of that store with a trolley full of groceries without paying. In my New World store in Shore City in Takapuna, a person, only in the last four months, walked out with a supermarket trolley full of food and actually physically assaulted and pushed over two members of the staff, one of which was hospitalised because of the injuries sustained from that assault from someone stealing a trolley full of groceries. And it is very common and people are seeing it weekly, and if not daily, in this country. Because of the lack of consequences, people are doing that within our grocery sector, and those staff members, as I have articulated before, are the ones that are at the front line dealing with that. This is a lost opportunity in terms of an opportunity, at least, that the Government could have used to implement some changes to strengthen up the issues that we have in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EBut that\u2019s all I want to cover on this bill in its third reading. National will be supporting this bill, and thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022 data-id=\u00224406585af8b24e859ae2bd6e841db910\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224406585af8b24e859ae2bd6e841db910\u0022\u003EDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to speak on the third and final reading of this bill, the Grocery Industry Competition Bill. And congratulations to Minister Duncan Webb and also former Minister David Clark for getting the bill to this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EI didn\u2019t sit on the select committee that heard the submissions on the bill, but in the context of the high cost of living\u2014needing to make sure that nobody has to pay any more than they need to at the supermarket. And as we\u2019ve heard tonight and previously when the Commerce Commission released its report last year, what it found was that that competition in the sector wasn\u2019t working well for consumers. So thinking through with many families, particularly those on low incomes, they\u2019re paying a huge proportion of their disposable income on the supermarket. I remember when my own sons were teenagers and just the huge amount of groceries we got through. So making sure that families don\u2019t have to pay any more than they have to is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003ESo this is a really important bill that will help families and households with the high cost of living, and I\u2019m happy to commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5917bd-9c2f-4bdf-af2f-b13cd1a2c8bb\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022863821f0608a41d7a692f68d8ae33a58\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a320c70cc7ae4f2fab826573dbffa6a4\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00222a54c851d1a949b69105fb1f6f92dd57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a54c851d1a949b69105fb1f6f92dd57\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Deposit Takers Bill and the Fuel Industry Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d8ad47683114956b1957777ad6072f7\u0022\u003EDeposit Takers Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a37b9dc58ea419090e94d0a694f83af\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bffb7e68bf214f5eb4f5294c7fb15139\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022516989a21c40434ab07f005ee23454f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022516989a21c40434ab07f005ee23454f7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Deposit Takers Bill and the Fuel Industry Amendment Bill. We come first\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc14b39ee4df45aca0cc99e806f2bf1d\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: On the what? I\u2019m sure the finance Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022428f37a39fe34615837ef27d12aa7b8b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Bayly, be quiet please. We come to the Deposit Takers Bill. We begin with the debate on Part 1. This question is that Part 1 stand part. This is the debate on clauses 3 to 9 and Schedule 1, the \u201CPreliminary provisions\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002240e7ab1d59b14107931721c9a0d474ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240e7ab1d59b14107931721c9a0d474ce\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you very much. I don\u2019t intend to take a large number of calls in the committee stage because I think it\u2019s a good opportunity for members to ask the questions they do want to ask. But I do want to talk briefly about Part 1, partly to thank the select committee for the excellent work that they have done on this bill, because in Part 1 there are a number of quite significant changes that the select committee made that I think do strengthen this bill. I particularly want to refer to the purposes clause and the principles clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn the \u201CPurposes\u201D clause, the essence of this bill is that it is designed to be able to \u201C[protect and promote] the stability of New Zealand\u2019s financial system.\u201D Obviously, the bill does that through a range of means, from licensing and supervision through to the new depositor compensation scheme, which I will also speak about later in the debate. What the committee did was add into clause 3(2)(ba) a new paragraph to talk about the importance of accessibility of financial products and services provided by the deposit-taking sector. Now, it\u2019s clear it\u2019s a subordinate clause because it says \u201Cto the extent not inconsistent with\u201D the first subsection that I mentioned before, but it is an important understanding that in addition to stability, which is clearly the goal of managing our financial system through this legislation, we do also want to have a sense that New Zealanders can access the kind of financial services that they need in order to go about their daily lives. So that addition by the select committee, I think, is an important one. I think it gives more clarity for the agencies and entities that will be in charge of administering this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESecondly, under the principles clause, this is where the select committee again did some excellent work around the importance of proportionality. This features in a couple of other parts of the bill which I\u2019ll come to later, but in this particular part of it the principles include the Reserve Bank needing to take into account \u201Cthe desirability of\u2014(i) taking a proportionate approach to regulation and supervision\u201D. One of the issues raised by a lot of submitters when they came to the select committee and in the feedback we did in the earlier consultation on this was that for small deposit takers\u2014those who aren\u2019t the big banks; the credit unions and so on who are involved in looking after a lot of peoples\u2019 money\u2014they were concerned that the bill would give a disproportionate amount of regulation on them, make it difficult to do the work that they need to do. There is an important role here for the Reserve Bank to have the flexibility that it needs to do its job, but alongside that, making sure that they must take account of the principle of proportionality is critically important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo that change, also to clause 4 here in Part 1, I thought was a very significant one. And I thought it was worth noting that Part 1 does give the overview of the bill, why we\u2019re here, and I think gives a pretty good summary of that, but it has been added to by the committee\u2019s work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002208f85dafd9db429ba2e46fa8b4b0e300\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208f85dafd9db429ba2e46fa8b4b0e300\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I just want to thank the Minister. I\u2019m glad that there was agreement at the select committee process and, obviously, the Minister was very aware of the changes that the Finance and Expenditure Committee put forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThis is really important, and it\u2019s not contentious at all, but I\u2019m glad the Minister stood up and made that clear. I think it\u2019s really important because we have non-bank deposit takers who are very concerned about the proportionality of this. There\u2019s not a lot of questions in this, but I think it\u2019s important to canvass it so it\u2019s on the public record that there is agreement by both\u2014I think by all parties, I hope, but certainly from the National Party\u2014that these two changes to clauses 3 and 4 are really important, and we want to make sure that the Minister certainly will ensure that the Reserve Bank does take a proportionate approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think the other part of it\u2014and this is one of the underlying themes of the smaller 13 non-bank deposit takers\u2014is recognition that these smaller entities are of a different scale, have different or less access to resources, and their market share is quite different, and therefore it was important that the Reserve Bank understood, and we tried to make it clear, that they need to be treated differently and not as one seamless whole, as part of a group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think the other thing is that an important part of clause 4(b) is also to maintain competition\u2014that\u2019s a very important aspect\u2014and paragraph (c) also draws on the need to restrict unnecessary compliance costs, which again can bury these small businesses. We\u2019ve already heard from some of the large banks and, of course, we\u2019ve seen the exit of the Hong Kong Shanghai bank from New Zealand, and one of the reasons quoted was the level of regulation that\u2019s been imposed on the banking sector, and they perceived it to be a major restriction going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe last bit, I think, when you look at paragraphs (d) through to (h)\u2014I just, again, hope the Minister might just confirm this\u2014but one of the other aspects that the sector talked about, the non-bank deposit taker sector, was the need for certainty. I think that was sort of infused; whilst it was not directly quoted, those last parts of it, if we look in a minute from another context, they\u2019re about creating uncertainty and the select committee was keen to make sure that that certainty was not only captured in clause 4 but also in clause 71 and new clause 76A. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAgain, I invite the Minister to maybe just to confirm, or otherwise, whether that\u2019s his understanding, because I think there will be a lot of people listening to how both the major political parties regard this particular aspect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002278c205c7eb944967879c1957f7d1d70d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278c205c7eb944967879c1957f7d1d70d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I can absolutely confirm to the member that that principle of certainty sits alongside the principle of proportionality. I think in clause 4, the amendments we\u2019ve made were good. It\u2019s also how it was initially drafted as well in order to make those points, and so I can absolutely confirm that for the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022 data-id=\u00226854e5e68e944640bd3f9ca06725937d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226854e5e68e944640bd3f9ca06725937d\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E For the Minister, the bill barely mentions efficiency. You\u2019ve not mentioned it, and the bill sort of sidelines it. Do you not think that the Reserve Bank of New Zealand\u2019s (RBNZ) undistracted focus should be on systemic risk and price stability in managing its affairs, and that the need to strengthen out from the RBNZ role makes it responsible for ensuring that the known collapse of any individual deposit takers or insurance companies is not really part of their core activities? I\u2019d just like your views on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00222e6cfc0eee684f0482d5ff2c9db6e7d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e6cfc0eee684f0482d5ff2c9db6e7d2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Reserve Bank has had a range of roles for some time, and it has been added to iteratively over the years. Obviously, if we go back to 1989 and the very central and core focus on monetary policy alone, and, obviously, on price stability alone, but the role of the bank in the financial stability space has evolved over time, and so it does have that role as the prudential role, the supervisory role that it now has, and so we need legislation that governs that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe bank, I think, has proved over a long period of time that it is capable of doing the many and different tasks that it is now asked to do. The whole purpose of the review that we did was to make sure that the bank itself was organised in such a way that it could fulfil those roles. So we had the three bits of legislation: one that dealt with monetary policy objectives; one that dealt with the institutional framework of the bank, the board, and so on; and one that deals with these specific tasks here that are mainly in the financial stability realm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo it would be quite a significant and big change for the Reserve Bank not to be involved in those areas, and I think as long as we give them the right framework and the right tools to do the different parts of their job, I think we\u2019re on the right track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022 data-id=\u0022b31e337b21ba4ecd96238a364e7cb267\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b31e337b21ba4ecd96238a364e7cb267\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Do you think that if, in a scenario where the Reserve Bank had to put someone under, that this would leave it with egg on its face?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc98e702ef9a4e51a87294ee3bafa854\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc98e702ef9a4e51a87294ee3bafa854\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry, could you just repeat that, Mr Smith?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3338a0fc61345038fbdb970039bc93a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3338a0fc61345038fbdb970039bc93a\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah. Do you think, Minister, if the Reserve Bank had to put somebody under, would this leave them with egg on their face as managers as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002239041d25817340b58391daebec993a9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239041d25817340b58391daebec993a9e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it\u2019s always very important to acknowledge that the Reserve Bank operates independently of the Government. We set the rules; we set the framework. For the most part, I think people would see the framework in which non-bank deposit takers operate in New Zealand is a strong framework, and I certainly know the member and others would have heard from constituents when we had the problems with banks in the United States earlier in the year\u2014you know, \u201CCould this happen in New Zealand?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EActually, the whole process of establishing a bank or, indeed, a non-bank deposit taker in New Zealand is quite a rigorous and a strict one. So the rules that have been laid out here are absolutely, in many cases, worst-case scenario and are unlikely to come into force or be used very often, but I think it would be highly irresponsible not to have those, and so, no, I don\u2019t agree with the member that it would be representative of them \u201Chaving egg on their face\u201D. Whenever there is a situation where a bank or a non-bank deposit taker might get in trouble, people will undoubtedly look and say \u201CWas the bank doing its supervisory job?\u201D, but they can\u2019t be held responsible for every single thing that occurs and every element of the banking or non-bank deposit-taking sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe need good rules. They generally operate very well in my opinion, but from time to time things go wrong, and that\u2019s why we have these frameworks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002299b7b5cb48a7415a84c1aadc7b8cc6cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299b7b5cb48a7415a84c1aadc7b8cc6cd\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Minister. My questions are in regards to, I guess, the context in which this bill has come about to this House, and in regards to the elements of the bill that deals with the risks of the stability\u2014the financial system at a more macro level. The implementation of the depositor compensation provisions for the loss of deposits that people would have within a bank is, in reality, in circumstances that I think one would agree would be very rare. So the context in which potentially those that are watching this and trying to understand why have we got this bill in the reality of actually the challenges we face within our current banking sector. I think it probably might be helpful to provide context in that actually the reality is that the scenario in which would mean that this\u2014some of the provisions of this bill would actually come into effect, would be reasonably catastrophic scenarios in the context of not only New Zealand but probably a broader Australasian implication and implications on our banking sector. So, interested from the Minister in terms of in that context, and in terms of the priorities that face us, what was the consideration around why the Minister has driven the implementation of this type of legislative change? Acknowledging that the circumstances in which it would be deployed would be very, very rare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002220c5e10679af453d852d675571578bc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220c5e10679af453d852d675571578bc0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 361 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222755551140bf4d698d8ef7718c8ba4f7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62; New Zealand National 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2; Kerekere; Whaitiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000760\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c328f5fe89334d5bb82512ab999d9650\u0022\u003EPart 2  Licensing of deposit takers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224349bb8dfc874ee5a124dddad8de32be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224349bb8dfc874ee5a124dddad8de32be\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 10 to 58, \u201CLicensing of deposit takers\u201D. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022a979ebdc957e4f70a09f5faa33c7b533\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a979ebdc957e4f70a09f5faa33c7b533\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. You\u2019re very generous tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c5712056ec4d11bd05218534415ba1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re very eager, Mr Bayly!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249db1dc35ab847e4ad87e72f1e3e0164\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! On Part 2, obviously, it really deals with the issue of issuing of licences and then an issue around validating and making sure that directors and senior officers are appropriate people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe first thing I just want to ask\u2014it\u2019s just a technical point. Clause 20, just to help the Minister, \u201CConsultation requirements\u201D. I think it\u2019s in relation to overseas people, applicants, because it all seems to be in that relation\u2014clause 18 is all about overseas applicants. First question: is it written in relation to overseas\u2014or whether it\u2019s domestic applicants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut the \u201CConsultation requirements\u201D: \u201CThe Bank must, before making a decision under section 17, consult\u2014(a) the FMA; and (b) the applicant about the conditions and standards that the Bank proposes to impose in relation to the applicant (if the Bank issues a licence).\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAnyone in this sector is designated or regulated financial institutions, and of course, the Minister will know what that means, being a technical term. As regulated financial institutions, all everyone in this group who would be applying for a licence here would be under the jurisdiction and auspices of the Reserve Bank. So my specific question is: what would be the objective and requirements of consulting with the Financial Markets Authority (FMA)? What information would the bank be seeking from the FMA, in terms of this consultation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s two little parts to that, if that\u2019s OK. The first one: is it domestic or is it just overseas? And then: what is the type of information that will be sought from the FMA, and why would they be making a recommendation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd8f1f0ed3d14df6b2b974d8851e85fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd8f1f0ed3d14df6b2b974d8851e85fb\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first one, I think if the member looks, he\u2019ll see that clause 20 refers to section 17. Section 17 is everyone; section 18 is the bit where we start talking about overseas people. So that\u2019s the answer to that part of the member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn terms of why one would be talking to the Financial Markets Authority, well, the Financial Markets Authority are in charge of the conduct of financial services activity in the country. They are responsible for certain standards within the sector, and I imagine, in order to make a decision about the granting of licences, they would want to make sure that there was no reason within that kind of conduct area that they would want\u2014but I\u2019m happy to check with officials to see if there\u2019s anything more they need, Mr Bayly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022d51bb6c01eef4e69be471dff3c32b354\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d51bb6c01eef4e69be471dff3c32b354\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, but I think that\u2019s a flying good leap of an answer. But if we\u2019re talking about conduct, you\u2019ve got Conduct of Financial Institutions (CoFI) and you\u2019ve got the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act (CCCFA). As the Minister of Finance knows very well, CCCFA is administered by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and the Commerce Commission, and then the CoFI is administered by the Financial Markets Authority (FMA). So both of them are conduct ones. I can understand if it\u2019s in relation to CoFI, but that doesn\u2019t then pick up why the CCCFA. And I\u2019m not sure that\u2019s a reason why they would be actually seeking advice from the FMA. I don\u2019t know whether you\u2019ve got an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EOK, well, I\u2019ll just carry on with the second one while the Minister\u2019s getting that answer. The second one is in Subpart 4, clause 26, \u201CLicenced deposit taker must obtain Bank\u2019s approval before new director or senior manager is appointed\u201D. That\u2019s all pretty clear, but what\u2019s a senior manager? Is a senior manager a CEO, or does it go down a level? If we take a large bank, one of our top four, you know, senior management might be a head of institutional banking and there might be seven at that level\u2014retail banking, whatever, if you look at a general banking structure. But in a non-bank deposit taker, you might find there\u2019s a much more streamlined, simplified management structure. So just quite keen to understand: what is \u201Csenior manager\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00225e00f54314c24c86955200a47322e9d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e00f54314c24c86955200a47322e9d3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m pleased, Mr Bayly\u2014you know, he\u2019s worked on this bill for a while, but if he just takes a little time to go to page 29 of the reported-back bill, he\u2019ll find quite an extensive definition of the term \u201Csenior manager\u201D there. I don\u2019t propose to respond to all of Mr Bayly\u2019s questions about definitions that already exist in the bill, and I can confirm to him that the reason that the Financial Markets Authority is there is because the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act really doesn\u2019t apply, so the Commerce Commission wouldn\u2019t be interested in being there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221d1ec75a45c54afa943bc9c377bf16a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d1ec75a45c54afa943bc9c377bf16a9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Part 2 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 361 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221eef8d888eeb4b9294f7a5368eb34264\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 109\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62; New Zealand National 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2; Kerekere; Whaitiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b688b483c921416ebaa101a8764bbf89\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u00225c53e974ac6e42088e54de6dd13433ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c53e974ac6e42088e54de6dd13433ff\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the remaining provisions to be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022180a713ebf5a4260adf0a9dd0c97f67d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022180a713ebf5a4260adf0a9dd0c97f67d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ba5d991e9ed420881244aaeb6c94b7b\u0022\u003EPart 3  Regulation of deposit takers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221c6814a14fa74ced98f681fe1ff37979\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c6814a14fa74ced98f681fe1ff37979\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 3. This is the debate on clauses 59 to 94, \u201CRegulation of deposit takers\u201D. The question is that Part 3 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc3c45097984463facea304d7aee716b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc3c45097984463facea304d7aee716b\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Well, I think the first thing I want to talk about is the need for a current credit rating. So clause 59 states, \u201CA licensed deposit taker must have a current credit rating that is given by an approved rating agency.\u201D Now, of course, I think this links very closely to clause 71, which is about the ability for the Reserve Bank to grant an exemption from the requirements to get a credit rating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThis is, again, just highlighting the issue of non-bank deposit takers who are very concerned about this, because there was a great deal of consternation that the Reserve Bank seemed to want to apply these great big, costly imposts on a smaller, but important and viable, part of the banking sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo there are some exemptions there when considering it. It specifically notes that when considering the matters of an exemption, \u201Cthe size and nature of the businesses\u201D and \u201Cthe extent to which the risks associated with not having a credit rating could be addressed or mitigated by terms or conditions.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s a big judgment call for the Reserve Bank. Again, it might be useful for the Minister just to highlight what are his expectations of that component part of clause 71. Because I think the committee, and certainly National, were of the view that this comes back to this issue of proportionality, which is covered later in this part, Part 3. But making sure that we don\u2019t impose unnecessary compliance costs\u2014and the most extensive of that, of course, is getting the requirement for a credit rating. So maybe the Minister can just sort of identify what he has in mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002267b1ae5e43544d8e9359e468bca50aa1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267b1ae5e43544d8e9359e468bca50aa1\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for that query. It really does go to the comments I made in my very first intervention, which is that this is the Reserve Bank\u2019s role and they need to perform it in a way that is consistent and provide certainty\u2014as the member himself has already indicated\u2014that in their operations we need to give them the flexibility to be able to deal with the range of different institutions that are in front of them, and the different circumstances that might arise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe member\u2019s, really, in many ways, answered his own question, which is if there weren\u2019t an exemption regime, we\u2019d be having a very different conversation because that wouldn\u2019t provide that ability to recognise that this is not a complete one-size-fits-all situation. It has to have some room\u2014some wiggle room\u2014so that\u2019s what\u2019s, effectively, created by that. Clause 70 provides that; clause 71 puts some limitations on the exemption power, and then\u2014as the member himself has indicated\u2014the committee did some really good work in the proportionality framework that comes in clause 76A within this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo I think, really, what that comes to is a balance of ensuring we get certainty, flexibility within the system, but ultimately the job is the stability of the financial system. We want to make sure that people who get licences are people who can actually run these institutions properly, but we also want to see that diversity within the market provided by some of the smaller ones. So the exemption criteria that\u2019s in there, I think it\u2019s a pretty good balance overall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022 data-id=\u002204a12be4b45349829ab4d7d5220b712f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204a12be4b45349829ab4d7d5220b712f\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E On clause 74, Minister, of Part 3, I just wanted to ask you some advice on the example that\u2019s contained within the bill that differing lending standards may apply to lending to customers in different geographical areas. What exactly does that means?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022f894af1a7d6846c18b729daebbff8055\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f894af1a7d6846c18b729daebbff8055\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I will get some advice from officials just to make sure I do get this right, but I\u2019m currently involved in an interesting situation around this, which is the impacts of Cyclone Gabrielle and the Auckland anniversary weekend floods. And from time to time, circumstances arise where you will see different treatment of different customers in different parts of the country, depending on what they\u2019ve been going through. And that I can see right now as I\u2019m working with banks and others around how we find our way to a position where we can support all of the rebuild and recovery that that would be an example, but I will check with officials just to confirm that is an example of what they meant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc670469adb5461590b024d982beb2c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc670469adb5461590b024d982beb2c2\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks very much, Mr Chair. The questions that I have are in regards to clause 61 in Part 3. As my colleague Andrew Bayly was asking, a large portion of the select committee process in regards to those smaller entities were in relation to the concerns raised, where a very small number of people within those entities fulfil regulatory roles in comparison to the big four banks and, therefore, the capacity within those entities in order to meet the compliance obligations under the bill were seen to be at a higher level of burden than those that could be absorbed by having bigger teams and bigger capability in the major banks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EMy question in regards to the Minister is in clause 61(2)(d) and (e). The conversation at the time at which the bill was going through was actually the same time in which the Silicon bank collapse was occurring in the US\u2014and the fact that the rating agencies in the hours and days preceding the collapse of the bank had said that there was no issue with that bank. The committee also spent some time and asked officials around the considerations of what was seen in the UK around 2007, 2008, and 2009 in regard to banking collapses, and again where Standard \u0026amp; Poor\u2019s and Moody\u2019s in particular, both provided strong opinions in terms of the credibility of banks which subsequently suffered significant financial collapse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAnd when one is in this legislation, looking at the consistency and comparability of these rating agencies, of which there isn\u2019t particular competition in the market\u2014and in the context of the fact that our major rating agencies that operate within this jurisdiction and in the global environment\u2014from some perspectives one would say, \u201CWell, you know, you haven\u2019t done a very good job in regards to providing assessments in regards to financial institutions which have subsequently collapsed and led to significant financial loss for consumers.\u201D Then, in reality, what is the point of having these type of clauses in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EBecause, you know, going back to my question that I asked right in the first part around the circumstances in which this type of legislation would actually crystallise is those that are pretty rare\u2014so I\u2019m interested in the Minister\u2019s view around that, whether he has any concerns around that, acknowledging that there are major players, whether there is consideration around other options that could achieve a similar outcome or whether basically the Minister is comfortable to say, \u201CWell, we\u2019re going to look at the adequacy of these rating agencies, but we\u2019re just going to sort of ignore the fact that they\u2019ve missed some pretty significant aspects in regards to organisations which subsequently collapsed. And, you know, that\u2019s just the nature of the business.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b62ddb67ce094851a011718e6c64243e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b62ddb67ce094851a011718e6c64243e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E With respect to Mr Watts\u2019 intervention just now, I\u2019ll certainly pass his concerns on to Standard \u0026amp; Poor\u2019s and make sure they\u2019re aware of that. Look, obviously, there are a lot of circumstances that sat behind the issues that the US system had at the beginning of the year. I\u2019m not sure the role of the ratings agencies was quite the biggest of those, but the whole point of the clause that the member is pointing out is to make sure that we have quality ratings agencies active in New Zealand. So that\u2019s the point of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIf we didn\u2019t have the clause and we could appoint ourselves as a rating agency or something like that, I think we\u2019d have much worse\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8f1e93ffd744dd797fe01821cc6350e\u0022\u003EAndrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CSimon Watts and Associates\u201D!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b15029e9595143e0be1080960ee2e795\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. I\u2019m not sure I\u2019d go there, Mr Bayly, to that particular ratings agency, but I don\u2019t think that\u2019s quite what we would want in New Zealand. And so the clause is in fact designed to do exactly the thing that Mr Watts has raised. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI just wanted to come back to Damien Smith\u2019s question that he asked\u2014Mr Smith, the question that you asked around the different geographies. The officials have pointed out to me that that\u2019s particularly in a case such as where there are different loan-to-value ratios (LVR) in different areas of New Zealand, for example. So you could have Auckland with a different LVR than another part of the country if the Reserve Bank was choosing to focus on a particular area. So that\u2019s an example of how a different lending standard could be applied to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022 data-id=\u0022948e89c91ba84cdab05068d8ff94c5d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022948e89c91ba84cdab05068d8ff94c5d8\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Minister, do you think it\u2019s worth including that definition extension in the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00227a07f843dce747539e9ea0bd7c0ef98d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a07f843dce747539e9ea0bd7c0ef98d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E No, I don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022822683d2c23948e6abdc9cd2c6e95a31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022822683d2c23948e6abdc9cd2c6e95a31\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I just take the opportunity to invite members from the Labour Party to stand up, and particularly some of the members who contributed fulsomely during the select committee process. I\u2019m looking at the Hon Phil Twyford and Ingrid Leary over there, and Mr Halbert over there wants to continuously close down this debate. I\u2019m not sure what his problem is. He should leave if he\u2019s in a hurry. But the issue I want to just raise with this\u2014because I think it\u2019s important, and, unfortunately, the member wasn\u2019t a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee for most of it, but he was for some of it, so maybe he could make a good contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c88679663e2a43ffa0579162446d7559\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: A bit restless today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b5076127c1b47ed88df291cc474511c\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I noticed that; very restless. The issue I want to just talk about, which I seem to have lost, is the issue around the duties of directors. Of course, what I\u2019m referring to is clause 92. As a select committee, we were concerned that directors couldn\u2019t rely on professional managers. The reason why we were concerned was if you take very large organisations with many thousands of employees, it would be impossible to expect board members or even a CEO to have a really good, in-depth requirement to make sure that the entity was complying with the Reserve Bank requirements. There\u2019s a duty of care which is set out in clause 92, and related to that is a due diligence requirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo I think the first thing I want to just note, and I hope the Minister is in agreement with this, but the committee removed the requirement for anti-money laundering requirements because with discussion with the officials, it was viewed that anti-money laundering has its own separate piece of legislation, and, for that reason, we did not need to capture it in this bill, and that is why it was removed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut the issues in clause 93A about allowing directors and senior managers to have reliance\u2014and, obviously, there is a requirement, certainly in clause 93A(3), that you not act in poor faith and have made proper inquiries, and have no knowledge that such reliance is unwarranted. But I think this is a very important part of this bill to make sure that in those large organisations there should be an ability to be able to rely on other members of the team and not necessarily require directors and CEOs to actually avail themselves of all and every piece of information that they would otherwise be required to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second thing is that we talked about making the rules about the guidelines\u2014and there\u2019s a requirement on the bank in clause 94 to prepare guidance on due diligence duties. One of the big things we talked about\u2014and I know Ingrid Leary across the House here is deeply involved in this\u2014is whether, in fact, the Institute of Directors (IOD) should be the party that provides that because, of course, they\u2019re in the business of providing guidance and support to directors. We thought they were most likely to be the best entity to help the bank in preparing its guidelines. Where we\u2019ve ended up is issuing guidance or training in relation to directors\u2019 duties, but actually requiring the bank to go and consult with such entities. In fact, we\u2019ve obliquely referred to the IOD by saying to those entities who are in the business of providing that type of guidance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo, again, I suppose it\u2019s a question of just putting this on record, but it is really important that we get adequate due diligence. I don\u2019t know whether the Minister wants to make any comments around that, but I think the importance of\u2014in some situations, it will be important for a CEO or whatever to have a very close understanding of this issue, but in much larger organisations that\u2019s probably impractical and unwarranted. I think my view is that where we ended up is we struck a balance on that, but, again, of course, I\u2019d welcome the input from the Minister, because he\u2019s such a knowledgeable person about these aspects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022 data-id=\u0022f28e80f048064d278dd78ebd87395a43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a97e1705-20b1-4844-8140-1090426c1397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f28e80f048064d278dd78ebd87395a43\u0022\u003EDAMIEN SMITH (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to refer the Minister to clause 79, Part 3\u2014the examples on convertible debt securities. I don\u2019t want to read out the whole definition because it\u2019s quite extensive, but in terms of that billion dollar figure, how is the maths done on that from a bail-in standard point of view?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u0022811e47d84f2049d0a877d356940a52b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022811e47d84f2049d0a877d356940a52b2\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227620ab8c9a824588998625f096e6c71c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 75\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2; Kerekere; Whaitiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 44\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220aa55ad1fa5643aba94291c0e89793f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220aa55ad1fa5643aba94291c0e89793f8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 3 set out on Supplementary Order Paper 361 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EPart 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224efa7f4775af4ea48411fe3e62233c93\u0022\u003EPart 4  Supervision of deposit takers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb9f2b1b871249898cd627ba5129d45f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb9f2b1b871249898cd627ba5129d45f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 4. This is the debate on clauses 98 to 146, \u201CSupervision of deposit takers\u201D. The question is that Part 4 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00220d02771d40e0472e93a15a6f3a4eca3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d02771d40e0472e93a15a6f3a4eca3f\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019m interested in comments from the Minister in regards to a number of clauses: 100, 104, and 106\u2014in particular, there, in regards to the offences, and the amounts liable on conviction both for the individual and in any other case, and the scale of the offences set there at the rate of $50,000 for an individual or, in any other case, a fine not exceeding $500,000. We talked previously around the proportionality considerations in regards to this legislation. Part 4 is in regards to the supervision of deposit takers and, in effect, the banks\u2019 information-gathering requirements, but it would be fair to acknowledge that particularly for our larger banking organisations\u2014particularly in the interests of what the Government has been commenting in the public domain in the last 24 hours\u2014a fine of $500,000 is not going to be potentially driving outcomes. So I\u2019m interested, Minister, in why that amount was set at that level and whether the Minister is comfortable that that will provide the appropriate degree of tension in order to drive the behavioural response around the provision of that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other aspect and the other question area that I\u2019ve got in regards to this section is around clauses 108 and 109. That is in regards to \u201CAuditor to inform of intention to disclose\u201D and the protection of auditor aspect. Obviously, there is agreement from this side in regards to the need to have that audit function, but the considerations around the ability for the auditor to be able to disclose information that potentially is gathered through that information-gathering process is an area that potentially would open up the auditor, in this instance, to potentially some questions around scope of audit and the ability for the auditor to actually have to disclose that information, which may or may not conflict with the terms of reference which the auditor would enter into in regards to the provision of those audit services. So I\u2019m interested in whether the Minister would look to make any comments in regards to that and whether he believes that we\u2019ve got that balance right in regards to that portion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other clause that I wanted to just have a couple of questions in regards to was, under Subpart 2, \u201COn-site inspection\u201D, clause 114, which is relating to the \u201COffence relating to [an] on-site inspection\u201D. This clause deals with where the employee or a director or an agent for the deposit taker commits an offence when they fail to deal with the requirements of the clauses in regards to the provision of that information\u2014again, in that respect, whether the threshold around refusing or failing to comply with the giving of information is an appropriate mechanism in regards to initiating an offence and whether the Minister is comfortable with clause 114(1)(b), which is \u201Cresist, obstruct, or delay the Bank in carrying out an on-site inspection\u201D. It sounds a bit rougher than dealing with a ram-raider at the moment, Mr Bayly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022720053a59809443f93010ff25a02d0c6\u0022\u003ETama Potaka\u003C/span\u003E: Not in Hamilton!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216baa38719024c4c833a1079356728b7\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Not in Hamilton says the member for Hamilton West, and rightly so. But anyway, Minister, that\u2019ll do for this stage. I\u2019m interested in your comments on those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022deb3e1b009d64439adf945c6e0266b33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022deb3e1b009d64439adf945c6e0266b33\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E On the first and the last matters that the member raised, I am comfortable. The way that these Acts work, when it comes to fines, is that there is an exercise done to look across the board at the way fines work across legislation, and a proportionate approach is taken. And I\u2019m sure that\u2019s what has been done here. And, on the last point, I\u2019m uncomfortable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EOn his middle point, I would just refer the member to clause 107, which indicates the severity of the threshold for which an auditor would undertake the provision or the disclosure of information, and it is that the licensed deposit taker or associated person has contravened a prudential obligation or contravened various parts of other Acts that relate to their duties, or if they\u2019re in serious financial difficulty or operating fraudulently or recklessly. So I think the threshold is particularly high here, and the bank itself obviously has its job when it\u2019s working directly with the deposit taker, but this allows the opportunity for an auditor when a particularly high threshold of poor conduct has been achieved. So I am also comfortable with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022eedf1cc5158e40cf8105cad7fe6b45ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eedf1cc5158e40cf8105cad7fe6b45ca\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY (National\u2014Port Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, and I\u2019d like to thank the Minister for his contribution there. I want to turn to a related topic, which is clause 130. This deals with the issue of confidentiality orders. I must admit, I get worried when the Reserve Bank or any entity\u2014in this case, it is the Reserve Bank\u2014has written its own legislation and writes in a clause that says \u201C(3) The Bank may make the order\u201D\u2014and that\u2019s in respect of confidentiality orders\u2014\u201Con the terms and conditions (if any) that it thinks fit.\u201D So this is a very significant power, and I can see the Hon Phil Twyford looking at me, saying, \u201COh, I didn\u2019t notice that one before.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019d like to hear from the Minister is whether this is proportionate, particularly when I\u2019m going to talk about fines in a second, but just bear in mind that the confidentiality orders, the bank may require that, which prohibits the publication or communication of any information that discloses or is reasonably likely to disclose the exercise of a power under this Act\u2014oh, that\u2019s a wide one\u2014and secondly, that is provided or obtained in connection with any inquiry, investigation, or other proceedings of the bank under this Act. So the bank may make the order on its own initiative, so to what extent are these powers fettered? Can the Reserve Bank\u2014it\u2019s now divine God, I presume, and can make its own decisions and impose anything. Maybe the Minister can help me where the constraining elements of this power is under clause 130.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut the other reason I raise this issue, Mr Chair\u2014because I know you\u2019re very keenly following this debate\u2014is the issue of the fines, which, of course, my good colleague Mr Simon Watts was talking about in his previous excellent contribution. In this case, there\u2019s the same sort of level of fines. There\u2019s total fines of $5 million for a corporate or an entity. In this case, if you happen to disclose the information that the divine right of the power of the Reserve Bank has deemed shouldn\u2019t be disclosed, either you\u2019ve done it in contravention or you\u2019ve done it recklessly, which means\u2014whether in fact that may mean you haven\u2019t shown enough constraint over your PR person in your large PR team, as sometimes happens with Ministers when they press the wrong button and all their press releases go out to a member of the Opposition, which happens from time to time. Whether that might be deemed a reckless situation\u2014and I hear Nicola Grigg laughing there in the background. It does happen, doesn\u2019t it, Nicola Grigg, from Ministers. So would that be deemed reckless and therefore potentially someone would be, in the case\u2014was it the poor PR person in the entity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b166dec9c68c427ba0fb7a0706099389\u0022\u003ENicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t blame the press secretary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022250f033bf8304c7ca95829289f5c0c6c\u0022\u003EANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: The press secretary, or was it in fact the Minister? It might be Mr Grant Robertson\u2014the Hon Grant Robertson\u2014who\u2019s reckless. In what situation is \u201Creckless\u201D defined?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBut the big point about this is that: \u201CI\u2019ve got it wrong, I blew it\u2014I\u2019ve blew it.\u201D That individual is now up for a fine of up to $100,000 or $2.5 million for the entity. Of course, I heard the Minister say this, and it\u2019s always these soothing words: \u201COh, that\u2019s the maximum, but don\u2019t worry, we\u2019ll never go there.\u201D It\u2019s a bit like\u2014I heard that earlier today at the Finance and Expenditure Committee when Minister Parker said, \u201CWe\u2019re not going to use that really extensive power of inquiry because we\u2019re never going to ask those questions.\u201D But yes, we do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESo there seems to be a lack of proportionality in this in terms of the fines, but also there does not seem to be any fettering or control or restraint around these powers, and I would very much like to have a contribution from the Minister as to why he thinks this is absolutely essential in the form that it\u2019s been presented in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022df0b3d125adc49ad95bef2acb260c72b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df0b3d125adc49ad95bef2acb260c72b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come for me to report progress on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b31f252bf0274824bb352f388ebea2fb\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002219ee6827881b4534b2786fa64d1a4b63\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f804525142194bf3a39f6ab516c2dc82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f804525142194bf3a39f6ab516c2dc82\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Deposit Takers Bill and reports progress. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00226d2dc06cdb66466f923634cb31767642\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d2dc06cdb66466f923634cb31767642\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The Deposit Takers Bill and the Fuel Industry Amendment Bill are set down for further consideration in committee next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow. P\u014D m\u0101rie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20230621539ccca62dce4055a2c8128feaa54537000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"