"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fe05cbd3fe240909b2098b1d87a796e\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 22 JUNE 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221bd0242d161e41649c8e969ca7acefa1\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 22 JUNE 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a9a4133df50480780ceed4d49a994e7\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222a2b3072124e4ca7b48f8809d844caf7\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002298689deb88464aaeb8f9adfbca6d7af0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298689deb88464aaeb8f9adfbca6d7af0\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Deputy Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1e9abf301fd4bed8f896e0113870e4c\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002291511a36e4594a10b2dda8927848ae6b\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022daea0ae490084f71a22fc8ee301d13da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daea0ae490084f71a22fc8ee301d13da\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Legislation to be considered next week will include the remaining stages of the Appropriation (2022/23 Supplementary Estimates) Bill together with all stages of the Imprest Supply (First for 2023/24) Bill, the first reading of the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Claims Settlement Bill, second readings of the Therapeutic Products Bill and the Crown Minerals Amendment Bill, the committee stage of the Fuel Industry Amendment Bill, the third readings of the Charities Amendment Bill and the Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill, and the remaining stages of the Deposit Takers Bill. Wednesday will be a members\u2019 day, and, as advised to the Business Committee, there will be an extended sitting of the House on Thursday morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002251869c50c1b0423d9a6f6de951057439\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251869c50c1b0423d9a6f6de951057439\u0022\u003EHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Leader of the House for that update. I know we started this year one members\u2019 day shy, given the events of December, and I\u2019m not entirely sure we have caught that up. So, notwithstanding that and knowing that the Government has an ambitious plan to get its legislation through before 31 August, can he reassure the House that there will be the requisite number of members\u2019 days between now and then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00229794299cc449484aa273081658158348\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229794299cc449484aa273081658158348\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the shadow Leader of the House for his intervention. I\u2019ll certainly go back and check where we\u2019ve got to, and I\u2019m happy to have a discussion about that matter at the Business Committee next week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002272e460e06dc94cf197abf2fea256949d\u0022\u003EPetitions, papers, select committee reports, and introduction of bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f496ad6fc9b4c4996ba40d89f9cc530\u0022\u003EPetitions, papers, select committee reports, and introduction of bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u002294149152574a4bc783f2a68da934d806\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294149152574a4bc783f2a68da934d806\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2d4541835a6439d853138c4face6a3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2d4541835a6439d853138c4face6a3a\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of MyMahi requesting that the House take action to make opening a bank account more accessible for people aged under 18 years old.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00221a152e347dc141df8b174b6ca7a177e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a152e347dc141df8b174b6ca7a177e8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. No papers have been delivered for presentation. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebbd8c7ae6a34f998dff3382f2fc02c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebbd8c7ae6a34f998dff3382f2fc02c4\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Education and Workforce Committee on the Education Review Office, Long-Term Insights Briefing 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Supplementary Estimates of Appropriations for the year ending 30 June 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Health Committee on the 2021-22 annual review of the Hawke\u2019s Bay District Health Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Intelligence and Security Committee on the Supplementary Estimates of Appropriations for Vote Communications Security and Intelligence and Vote Security Intelligence for the year ending 30 June 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Social Services and Community Committee on the Accessibility for New Zealanders Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022391c933622f1460f91f324084b66b3a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022391c933622f1460f91f324084b66b3a6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for second reading. The Long-Term Insights Briefing is set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca51aba6678a42fa979818e1929651c2\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aaa72a0c9b874a99bc3ea0dc8ad2bb71\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b83ad5b6cd143ef8c8c23df20b9ebf4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c374d7e012fb4c2286818dfa080ad5c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c374d7e012fb4c2286818dfa080ad5c1\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: Has he seen the call in the Climate Shift plan, released last week, to \u201CTransition intensive dairying to low emissions farming by phasing out synthetic nitrogen fertiliser and imported animal feed, reducing herd size, and banning new large-scale irrigation schemes\u201D; if so, does he support it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00221d05f474f3a74a61a2b00a24000c497b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d05f474f3a74a61a2b00a24000c497b\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E To the first part of the question, yes, I have seen the Climate Shift 10-point plan released last week. To the second part of the question, the Government is already committed to supporting our primary producers to reduce their emissions and lift sustainability credentials on farms. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve invested more than a billion dollars over consecutive Budgets to develop emissions reduction tools for farmers, to fund over 200 catchment groups to restore water quality within a generation, and to research innovative on-farm practices to improve environmental outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aed271beb9d419ab476ff65d2fb37e8\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Rod Oram, who in a recent article said, \u201CThe call is to cut agricultural emissions in ways that improve farms and the ecosystems on which they utterly depend. For example, reducing stocking intensity, diversifying crops, increasing soil carbon and rebuilding biodiversity will make them more sustainable.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3411b39787e4277a2eed708e4a5e437\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t agree with everything that Ron Oram says, but a lot of that article I do agree with. Yes, we do have to work with our farming sectors to develop the techniques\u2014the technology\u2014to reduce emissions from our agricultural systems. That doesn\u2019t necessarily mean cutting stock numbers or cutting production. We think we can do both\u2014that is, increase the profitability, the production, and reduce emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cee50f29c0ad48879aef0a3ca94ebe7c\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that overuse of synthetic nitrogen fertiliser is leading to water pollution, and, if so, will he consider stronger measures on fertiliser?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5dddc9eee834e019124206ed2e1a034\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The Government introduced a cap on synthetic nitrogen fertiliser of 190 kilograms per hectare. The sector seems to have addressed the challenges of that. We\u2019ve seen a lift in gross export earnings from our productive sectors, including the farmers, at the same they have cut back on their use of nitrogen. I don\u2019t believe that we should cut it out completely, as that report suggests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c00c9d2d3a984d488161a193012e38ed\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: What support, if any, will he provide to organic farmers to maximise the benefits of the organic products Act changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022486e96dc55f14c8387fe4960a97330e5\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: This Government facilitated the passage of the Organic Products and Production Bill, which ensures there\u2019s consistency and accreditation for organics production in our country. That will boost certainty and confidence in the organic sector. There is, I understand, a challenge at the moment with their lead organisation facing some financial challenges. We\u2019re happy to sit down and talk with them. In the end, though, the industry has to be able to grow up and to fund itself into a sustainable future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa28f77378204c1dbd051b207ab09cd0\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that farming in Aotearoa cannot possibly be sustainable as long as it relies on imported PKE feed that can lead to deforestation overseas and further undermine climate progress, and, if so, what will he do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb6503b9d38d42749a768af9aea6130e\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The use of PKE\u2014palm kernel expeller\u2014is a very small part of the total feed budget in our country. It was originally introduced off the back of a drought, and so there will be, from time to time, the need for supplementary feeds like PKE. The overdependence on that is something that Fonterra sought to intervene on, and that is limiting the amount of PKE that can be fed to a cow per day. So, I think, over time, we\u2019ll see a reduction in the reliance on that and a move back towards more sustainable systems on farm. I think that\u2019s good for us all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c6638fb1d5fe41b4819a6552b7a4fdf2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u002269cf4bbf6f0949dfb3452843c5a7d440\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269cf4bbf6f0949dfb3452843c5a7d440\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour\u2014Northcote)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00229fdfeb0a4ff243268215156e80a2b5b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fdfeb0a4ff243268215156e80a2b5b4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E We know 2023 is a challenging year for New Zealand, the global economy, and New Zealanders. However, there are reasons for optimism. New Zealand continues to produce the goods and services that the world wants. This is shown in the new Situation and Outlook for Primary Industries, which is forecasting that primary industry exports will reach a new record high of $56.2 billion by the end of June\u2014above earlier estimates. The growth is led by dairy, seafood, and processed food exports. Looking ahead, the report is projecting primary industry exports to grow to $62 billion by 2027.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2ff4fe767ad4218b34167f9ba01eff1\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9241522f5fe49b098a0e0a7e4ea056a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Statistics New Zealand has reported that employment rose for the fourth month in a row, with filled jobs rising by 13,193 or 0.6 percent in April, taking the total number of jobs to 2.37 million. The services industry has continued to drive the gains, with the rest mainly coming from the goods-producing industries. On an annual basis, the biggest gains were in accommodation and food services, followed by healthcare and social assistance, manufacturing, transport, postal and warehousing, and administration and support services. By age group, the largest gains, in terms of the number of filled jobs, were for 35- to 39-year-olds, followed by those aged between 30 and 34 and then 15- to 19-year-olds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022567f4070e1764f52b11205c0a4c37cb1\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on net migration and its impact on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a7913ca390347649f8534cd116b8515\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Last week, Statistics New Zealand reported that there was a net gain of 5,800 people arriving in the month of April and 72,300 people for the year. I believe our immigration reset is working and attracting the overseas workers with the skills that businesses need to help rebuild the economy. Yesterday\u2019s announcement around changes to the skilled migrant category will simplify the pathway to residency and further support businesses to recruit internationally and fill vacancies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223dbd7011d87437abd16567e8bfcd8da\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on the international context for the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283ed0439b3d643a689ee42bbecf3b79d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: The World Bank is forecasting the global economy to slow from 3.1 percent in 2022 to 2.1 percent in 2023 and then bounce back slightly to 2.4 percent for 2024. This emphasises that it is a difficult time for the global economy and that this will flow through to New Zealand. But we are well positioned to face the challenges ahead, with unemployment near record lows, growing exports, and public debt levels well below those of countries that we compare ourselves with. Inflation is high, but it is heading in the right direction. We know New Zealanders are doing it tough, and the Government is striking a balance to support them in the here and now while continuing to invest in public services and a resilient infrastructure network. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d1ba0cdab164da4bb28c8fe750b2295\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022aba2cd18bdbb47428b0abd1f3ad47c92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aba2cd18bdbb47428b0abd1f3ad47c92\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in all of his Ministers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00222ea111f36e4f4ce6804bdbf82723f0cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ea111f36e4f4ce6804bdbf82723f0cc\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes, because those Ministers have worked hard to see us in a position where we have 77,000 fewer children in poverty; delivered 12,000 new public homes, after a decade of cuts and neglect; hired more than 4,200 more nurses; reduced class sizes for years 4 and 8; supported 1 million New Zealanders a year with the cost of their power bills with the winter energy payment; scrapped the $5 prescription co-payment; delivered 63 million free lunches, to 950 schools and kura, to over 220,000 learners; increased Pharmac funding by over 40 percent; delivered 1,800 extra police; concluded four free-trade agreements and upgraded existing agreements with Singapore, China, and ASEAN member States; achieved record levels of R \u0026amp; D expenditure, up 67 percent since 2014; tripled the number of electric vehicles coming into New Zealand, including Teslas; consistently achieved record low unemployment; established fair-pay agreements\u2014I could go on, but I won\u2019t unless I\u2019m asked to. I\u2019m very proud of what our Ministers have achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b2876c5f3cf489f802a60fa5b11ca19\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: How can he have confidence in his Minister of Finance when he has allowed the cost of living crisis to drag on for two years while presiding over the biggest drop in per capita GDP since the last Labour Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ec0d78f219c4a1aa7fc8e4af1b96cf5\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I am really glad that that member has asked that question. It gives me an opportunity to say why I have trust and confidence in our finance Minister. That Minister led us through a global pandemic and has taken us to a place where we are much better placed than many other countries are. Globally, inflation has gone up. That member continues to ignore the fact that New Zealand is not alone in this, but our economy is better placed now than what it was before the pandemic. Our unemployment rate is still at near record lows, at 3.4 percent. And just one other example: that Minister of Finance delivered, alongside his favourite Minister, the Minister for Social Development and Employment, a wage subsidy that saved thousands and thousands of jobs and businesses. I am very proud of our Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c104359ccf844f3baab8cfc39cd0732\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister think the Minister of Finance has the enthusiasm and determination needed for the economic fix-up ahead when, when asked about the recession, he has nothing but excuses, blaming a cyclone that didn\u2019t hit the country until four months after the recession had started?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3b2948166ec43c4b33ab52166522bb3\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Can I thank that member for giving me the opportunity to speak more about our Minister of Finance. As I said, we are doing comparatively better than a lot of the world at the moment, but we acknowledge\u2014and the Minister of Finance on a daily basis acknowledges\u2014that New Zealanders are doing it tough at the moment. We see it. We\u2019re in those communities. We know it. That is why that Minister of Finance delivered a Budget where we saw the $5 prescription co-payment removed. We saw 20 hours\u2019 free early childhood education (ECE) applied to two-year-olds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baaffff2d6944490a651f8d6ec6044f0\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: How does that apply?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8346e403aad477281d6e0f19ad576ad\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Bishop said, \u201CHow does that apply?\u201D That applies because childcare is one of the most expensive in-work expenses that families have. That finance Minister has ensured that our children get free public transport and young people under 25\u2014or between 13 and 24\u2014get half-price public transport. I want to thank that finance Minister, and I hope that member gives me another opportunity to talk about him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022677746586976476f9b7133ee27dc47b8\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister have confidence that the Minister of Education is taking seriously enough concerns raised by the educational watchdog the Education Review Office, who highlight that student attendance and achievement is plummeting and of serious concern; and does Minister Tinetti have enough time to focus on this in between sessions at the Privileges Committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3e82ae0419640b6b1a397d49fe7a5f2\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I have absolute confidence in our Minister of Education. I am really grateful that we have a person in that position who intimately understands how the education system works, has committed her life to children and the education system, and now has an opportunity to serve in this Parliament and in this Government to make decisions on behalf of that education system that she cares so deeply about. I could go on about the number of achievements that have been attained under Minister Tinetti\u2019s watch, but I\u2019ll just give a couple: firstly, the reduction of class sizes for years 4 to 8\u2014that Minister is responsible for that. Secondly, I want to point out, again: 20 hours\u2019 free ECE for 2-year-olds\u2014thank you very much, our Minister of Education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022540732208c16452c82827e47e2f6c282\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: How many schools have actually got an extra teacher out of the policy she just listed as the major achievement of the Minister of Education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022438da03613a24409bf3f667343d940b9\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: If that member wants that level of detail, she should put it in writing or perhaps ask the Minister of Education that question herself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af030a04b51f4b89b081fde65e301f82\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister have confidence in the Minister of Revenue, who, while overseeing a huge increase in the tax take, is busy designing new taxes and allowing his department to spend $30 million redecorating and refurbishing its offices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ac90d9846464a98ad6d511e57422a1c\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t really understand how that member could expect me to criticise our Minister of Revenue for doing his work. That is what he is there to do: to look at the tax system, to explore options, and to provide advice and inform his Cabinet on what he thinks the lay of the land is and where we could go potentially. He\u2019s doing a great job\u2014he\u2019s doing his job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eed2bdfa2744a7a84031eee1e95277a\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Well, could the Prime Minister then please tell us what he\u2019s told him the lay of the land is and where he might take us on tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227a35a76cb4546dc8bbaaf9605cb1577\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Right now, we don\u2019t have a tax policy at this point in time. We have said on a number of occasions that it will come in due course. That member will just have to wait. She will find out at the same time the rest of New Zealand does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d42ff3ceb964c019a0d51805cbe8dd5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Immigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022 data-id=\u002299056f504e1d41cba081d050e250eb38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299056f504e1d41cba081d050e250eb38\u0022\u003EDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: Can football fans from non - visa waiver countries wishing to take advantage of this month\u2019s release of additional tickets for the 2023 FIFA Women\u2019s World Cup come to New Zealand to watch games that start in 28 days, and how many days does it currently take Immigration New Zealand, on average, to process 90 percent of visitor visa applications for non - visa waiver countries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u002218d8379871de4a448683fed883290371\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218d8379871de4a448683fed883290371\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E To the first part of the member\u2019s question, yes, provided they have the appropriate visa when they board their flight to New Zealand. And to the second part of the question, in May 2023, over 49,500 visitor visa applications were received by Immigration New Zealand. Of those, on average, it took seven working days to process visitor visa applications\u201475 percent were processed in 20 working days and 90 percent were processed within 35 working days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7642695bf1a4a168902f4a68ffa48ff\u0022\u003EDr James McDowall\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Regarding the second leg of the question, I asked how many days does it currently take Immigration New Zealand on average. On every day, there\u2019s a rolling figure of 90 percent, and the Minister referred to the previous month.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c2bf07e02d4caa9662170050834bf2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister remind me what you actually answered for that part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269412317774942dc9bd22b57a2d46d0e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, so I\u2019m happy to repeat the second part. In May 2023\u2014so the latest figures for the latest month of figures available\u201449,500 visitor visa applications were received, and I said it took seven working days to process, on average, across all of them. It took seven working days to process visitor visa applications\u201475 percent were processed in 20 working days and 90 percent were processed within 35 working days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022817f0d7f1f494891967ffc5c2eb39bd7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That actually answers the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275188df3c32b4cd4881b77be3f386fbe\u0022\u003EDr James McDowall\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a92e397216e14a63b41d76d01f83b36e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: New point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237ccc66d28c5411c9aa64a8c70bf7ec4\u0022\u003EDr James McDowall\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Specifically, Mr Speaker, I\u2019m asking, and it\u2019s on notice, about non - visa waiver countries. The Minister, by using visa-waiver countries in that total, is skewing that information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225e33ca43f344fa3a1f72a58e8705da9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not really for me to judge the quality of the answer. It definitely has been answered. You can use your supplementaries to get more information out of the Minister, so I suggest you do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695b4049c7964ce2a02bbda55d6c967a\u0022\u003EDr James McDowall\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen the comments made by a FIFA boss in a Newstalk ZB article this afternoon where she states, \u201Cthis is going to be the biggest sporting event this country has seen.\u201D, but they\u2019re keeping a close eye on New Zealand as there are still concerns about empty seats, and is he confident that the Government has done enough with our immigration settings to welcome fans from non - visa waiver countries in the three years since the games were announced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad0397764d564d9ba5b9a4dd45f19acc\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t seen those particular comments from that representative of FIFA, but there are two comments I would make. I stand by and applaud the work of our Minister for Sport and Recreation for the outstanding leadership that he has provided in working with FIFA and, indeed, Australian authorities, in an enthusiastic and energetic application to ensure a great tournament. But the comments of FIFA that I am aware of are those on its website, where FIFA says, \u201CFans are encouraged to complete their respective visa applications as early as possible\u201D. FIFA goes on to say on that same website, \u201CThe Australian and Aotearoa New Zealand Governments expect a higher-than-normal number of applications, as such processing times may take longer than usual.\u201D I\u2019m very thankful that FIFA is sensitive to the demands placed on the immigration system of Aotearoa New Zealand, which they have reflected in their advice to fans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223374ee2c69c049c8a83e0d7167dba23c\u0022\u003EDr James McDowall\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that FIFA has stated that, in addition to the 250,000 tickets released this month, further ticket allocations may be released over the coming weeks, and, if so, will a single fan from a non - visa waiver country such as China be able to buy one of these tickets today, apply for a visa, and attend the game here in New Zealand, or will our immigration system just not let them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022826dd9c57396419096158d6179d79c26\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE\u003C/span\u003E: What I am confident that FIFA knows and understands is that they deal with Sovereign countries and the systems that those Sovereign countries run in the interests of that Sovereign country and, indeed, in their national security interests. That\u2019s why they give warnings to fans, if they have to travel and require a visa, to give themselves an appropriate amount of time to do it. In the end, the release and allocation of tickets is a matter for FIFA, an international private body, and does not override the Sovereign obligations and requirements of a country like Aotearoa New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff1ad5a3-e02a-4ffe-a961-ef69bdaee1c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c560e7c7dcbf4e5591fb0e46b7b6f490\u0022\u003EDr James McDowall\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220adbef958c764c7d8b7b83e50fd9899f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve run out of supplementaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226e451238063d40f0b700e96a7d54d530\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Women\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd82a58178224c959d832ae2308e9dcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd82a58178224c959d832ae2308e9dcc\u0022\u003ESARAH PALLETT (Labour\u2014Ilam)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Women: How will Budget 2023 deliver for women?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022f99795fdeff7480f873188f293f8b9aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f99795fdeff7480f873188f293f8b9aa\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister for Women):\u003C/span\u003E Budget 2023 signals the Government\u2019s ongoing commitment to creating a fairer, safer, and more equitable future for women and girls. Our Government is committed to improving outcomes for everyone, but this Budget will create a real positive difference for the lives and wellbeing of women and girls and their wh\u0101nau. Investment\u2014into such areas as childcare assistance, KiwiSaver, training and employment pathways, and family violence\u2014provides women and their wh\u0101nau with more targeted support and more opportunities to thrive and get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b3dfe9afe3048a88a428c5a2a2f9bb2\u0022\u003ESarah Pallett\u003C/span\u003E: How will Budget 2023 help women with the cost of living?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d2e4b9bc7644d55a41d890211f41fab\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: This Budget helps ease the cost of living pressures by significantly reducing the cost of early childhood education (ECE) for parents by extending 20 hours free ECE to two-year-olds. We are removing barriers to early learning and to allow parents to return to work or take on more hours if they can. We\u2019re also investing $35.2 million into childcare assistance to expand eligibility, duration, and improve access for families. These investments increase eligibility and will help approximately 30,000 women currently accessing childcare assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0314c6d05934d8e8929845a21c9604b\u0022\u003ESarah Pallett\u003C/span\u003E: How will Budget 2023 support the long-term economic outcomes for women?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209280d1290994a3cb4a541b52da5be50\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: We are continuing the Training Incentive Allowance in Budget 2023, with $80.1 million over four years to support sole parents, disabled people, and their carers to study towards higher-level qualifications. Since 2021, 90 percent of those who received this allowance were women. Supporting women into higher education and higher-paid employment helps to reduce gender pay gaps and creates intergenerational benefits. A $19.7 million investment into KiwiSaver will mean the Government can match employer contributions to paid parental leave recipients. This helps parents, particularly women, save for their retirement on a more equitable level and recognises the unpaid nature of childcare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e7bab061-0905-44a1-a4ec-cf89b58a1baf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f764fa80fa446f58630c66c668238b3\u0022\u003ESarah Pallett\u003C/span\u003E: How was gender budgeting utilised in Budget 2023?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b3c8995efa465f84d257b6a5b6a919\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: To support the Budget process and improve outcomes for women and wh\u0101nau, we\u2019ve introduced gender budgeting, a powerful tool to help understand how Government spending and initiatives will impact people differently depending on their gender. Manat\u016B W\u0101hine\u2014Ministry for Women and the Treasury have led two gender-budgeting exercises to support public sector agencies to analyse how their initiatives will impact women and girls, with a particular focus on w\u0101hine and k\u014Dtiro M\u0101ori. The exercise was expanded to including 15 public sector agencies for Budget 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002286793a5e8087479ba3200c823b561bc5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002208b2992b12054a6b83100de4320ec74b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208b2992b12054a6b83100de4320ec74b\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (National\u2014Taup\u014D)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How many more people are on the jobseeker benefit today compared to September 2017, and how much higher are jobseeker benefit numbers expected to climb, according to Treasury\u2019s forecast from the Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9927d78f70c4e53b1eae24cedba1c7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9927d78f70c4e53b1eae24cedba1c7c\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E In September 2017, there were 64,299 people receiving a jobseeker work-ready benefit, and 56,427 receiving a jobseeker health and disability benefit. As at the end of last week, which are the most recent numbers that we have, there were 98,262 people receiving a jobseeker work-ready benefit, and 71,220 people receiving a jobseeker health and disability benefit. In Budget 2023, Treasury forecast jobseeker numbers to 200,600 by January 2025, decreasing to 179,200 by June 2027; this is due to challenging global conditions affecting our economy. However, at the beginning of the global pandemic, Treasury predicted main benefit numbers would rise to 487,500. Because of our quick actions as a Government, the number of people receiving a main benefit never went above 400,000. We have come through the pandemic in better shape than Treasury predicted, and while the global environment remains challenging, we are still much better placed than we were following the global financial crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b64511fcd51046d6b59dedd63b6e7ed3\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: With 50,000 more on the jobseeker benefit today, can she explain how her Government has failed to bring jobseeker numbers down anywhere close to where they sat under the previous Government despite businesses up and down the country crying out for staff over the last couple of years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df0ebf514dc64ca8b3b8307ef843563f\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s really important that we keep this in perspective. As at March 2023, three years after the beginning of the global pandemic, 11 percent of New Zealand\u2019s working-age population was receiving a main benefit. The comparison: in March, three years after the global financial crisis, 12.3 percent of the working-age population was receiving a main benefit. So we are still better placed. Compared to 2017\u2014the same period\u2014we are still seeing more exits off benefit into employment: in the 12 months ending March 2017, there were 58,785 exits; in the 12 months ending March 2023, there were 75,033 exits off benefit into work. We are prioritising this and always have. We want to support New Zealanders to get into the upskilling and training opportunities and to get into employment, and we\u2019re seeing that focus actually work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257673186c5304048a47834ea986371b5\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that, with the economy now in recession and unemployment forecast to increase, her Government has completely and utterly wasted a golden opportunity to reduce benefit dependency and support people off welfare into work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022888b033c20a64010b4a84633a5a25c25\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022723fcf7b4a154489b86bb5e4b1d26dec\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe that any family depending on someone receiving a jobseeker benefit should live in poverty, and if not, when will she lift incomes so that no one in Aotearoa is living in poverty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b7660f282d6474fa1b4b39c7f8d9291\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: We are focused on reducing poverty, particularly for our children\u2014but, of course, the wider impact is for the whole family. We see 77,000 fewer children in poverty now because of the actions that we have taken to address income adequacy. That includes consistently lifting the minimum wage. That includes significantly lifting benefits. That includes things like getting rid of two ridiculous and unnecessary sanctions that were having an impact on children. There is more to do, and we\u2019re absolutely committed to doing that mahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022774393102a4b4190beb53b78cfeb1964\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Will it be easier or harder to reduce the number of people on the jobseeker benefit now that New Zealand is in a recession, and if harder, how many more children will be in benefit-dependent homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263b15db4b7cf47b5a0a6956b27e0241f\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: What makes it easier for getting people into employment is actually investing in the upskilling and training programmes that support them to take up the jobs that are available. We have made record investments in that space, including with Mana in Mahi, Flexi-wage, and the thousands of people that have taken up the Apprenticeship Boost opportunity. Those are only a few examples, but that\u2019s what makes it easier to support New Zealanders into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283c7efe555c744c9ba3c440fe63e39d3\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: If the programmes the Minister has just talked about are so successful, why are there 50,000 more New Zealanders on a jobseeker benefit, and why has she cut funding to all of those employment initiatives in Budget 2023?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223939316dd89240608905043028363b0f\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: As I said earlier, if we look at the raw figures, it doesn\u2019t tell the story in the same way as looking at the proportion of working-age New Zealanders that are on benefit. In March of this year, that was 11 percent of the working-age population. Three years after the global financial crisis, it was 12.1 percent. We are better placed than we were then. There is still much more work to do, and we are committed to doing that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227608fdb3af824f8c98e10ebb27f6fec7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Tourism\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022 data-id=\u0022a493a33ccac943098650cafce900e6d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a493a33ccac943098650cafce900e6d0\u0022\u003ET\u0100MATI COFFEY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Tourism: What recent announcement has been made regarding the tourism industry\u2019s transformation to be more environmentally responsible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00228681f6a218c44b3fb1544350d9e1ea56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228681f6a218c44b3fb1544350d9e1ea56\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Minister of Tourism):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, the draft Tourism Environment Action Plan went out for public consultation. The draft plan is the second pillar of the Tourism Industry Transformation Plan. The draft plan sets out actions to further shift the tourism industry to a regenerative model that gives back more than it takes. We have a critical window of opportunity to create and courageously unite behind a new vision for tourism in Aotearoa, something the sector is giving great feedback on. If we are going to contribute to global efforts to create a balanced and sustainable climate, we must act now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298a85dfbd42448499c2f44bd7af3a4b1\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it important for the tourism sector to move to a regenerative model?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3a867a46e134ac99917c671ec37bb97\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Tourism touches every part of the motu and has a major influence on New Zealand\u2019s brand. Consumer awareness of environmental issues is increasing and the Government is listening. This plan was created in partnership with the sector, iwi, unions, and environmental organisations. It is important that we continue to preserve our natural environment as one of our key attractions in a world-class destination. This plan shows that tourism can lead the way to ensuring that culture and nature are our best offerings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c711811619a42779025a48041c0b0f1\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister tell us what the action plan is about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be4d2d84afa540a7a57c0d8a6c2b7022\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: The plan outlines six Tirohanga Hou for ensuring that tourism in Aotearoa New Zealand protects and restores the climate and environment. One of those Tirohanga Hou is the decarbonisation of tourism journeys. Last week, I announced that the Government would be co-funding, alongside Air New Zealand, two studies that will test the feasibility of establishing and operating a sustainable aviation fuel production facility in New Zealand. Stats New Zealand data shows that aviation contributes up to 60 percent of tourism\u2019s total emissions, and these studies are the first step in the right direction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226590faa0-f76b-4386-84f3-9b06296cc772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223605f3d4dd94430f88b769aa5deb6615\u0022\u003ET\u0101mati Coffey\u003C/span\u003E: What is he hearing from the sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb9d4710709e4743853cf86a2a5eeeb9\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: The sector is aware of the gravity of this piece of work, with Tourism Industry Aotearoa Chief Executive Rebecca Ingram saying, \u201CIt\u2019s important that the industry feeds into this draft plan, which will help us develop real, practical actions to protect and improve our environment at this critical time\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022696324ab3b604f08bbf4e4536a63906f\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Just make a plan. All we need\u2019s another strategy\u2014that\u2019ll sort everything out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022211f94fa15294427a55bb6496ad40c23\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: On the aviation fuel studies\u2014Mr Bishop\u2014Air New Zealand Chief Sustainability Officer Kiri Hannifin said, \u201CSustainable aviation fuel [was] in very high demand but limited supply. Commercially producing it \u2026 locally will not only help lower the country\u2019s emissions and create jobs, but also provide fuel security in New Zealand\u201D. This Government is taking transformational steps and Mr Bishop can pine all he wants, but that side did absolutely nothing. Kore. Zero. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa97b5ac141d469c8bfe27088af20ce2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00228e2a13b302a346e6b980d7c6755f65a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e2a13b302a346e6b980d7c6755f65a3\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Is it correct that reported waiting times for children seeking mental health treatment in the Wellington region increased from 28 days in 2018 to almost 70 days in 2022, and does she agree with the Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission\u2019s statement that \u201CThere are persistent workforce shortages, and we are yet to see a clear strategy and roadmap to grow and develop the workforce we so desperately need\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022364bbff86e014435aa20459549f1550a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022364bbff86e014435aa20459549f1550a\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, I want to acknowledge the impact waiting for mental health treatment has on young people and their families. Wait times are longer than I would like due to a range of factors, including increased demand for services and workforce shortages. In answer to the first part of the question, in relation to specialist services, yes. In answer to the second part of the question, the mental health workforce as a whole has grown substantially under this Government due to the introduction of the Access and Choice programme. I am advised that the child and adolescent mental health services in the former Capital and Coast district have recently succeeded in filling some of their vacancies. There are currently lower vacancies when compared to last year. I disagree there is a lack of a plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1273f14b47f463ebf51b4fa39b3409d\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister use the excuse of the Access and Choice programme when a large majority of their workforce does not necessarily have a qualification, when the increasing vacancy rate is actually in the specialist workforce of psychiatry\u2014just to give the Minister one example, last year psychiatry increased 125 percent in vacancy rates\u2014psychologists, and nursing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b0d4e52549f40b29239c59cf1ac38d2\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: Because there is overlap in the skilled professionals who work between hospital or specialists\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5dc7d05c3cd4f8bbf139621c4f5ff12\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: No psychiatrists work in the Access and Choice programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283e9472555324f869d562d637becdf02\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: That is correct. Psychiatrists don\u2019t, but other mental health professionals with qualifications work both in specialist and in the primary Access and Choice system, and there has been a movement of trained workforce from the specialist and hospital-based services to the community services that we have set up. It is not an excuse, and we have a number of measures under way in order to grow the workforce. This includes promoting new entry to specialist practice changes for nurses, with 127 additional places; further training for nurse practitioner programmes, with 80 places; funding for additional clinical psychology internships, with 26 additional places; four new psychology training hubs; entry to specialist practice for social workers being supported with 42 additional practices; further work to attract people to psychiatry with the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists; and 70 additional bursaries for young people who are interested in training and mental health careers who are M\u0101ori, 65 for Pacific, and 11 for Muslim people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9f1b9d632bd4e6fba3b42524f9473ff\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer of so-called announced initiatives, what is her response to 14 of the 16 regional health authority risk registers identifying workforce problems including understaffing as a major risk, with one risk register stating, \u201CThe pressure on mental health services treating children and teenagers increases the risk of an increased number of attempted and completed suicides.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234c235b15cea4218886643c6d17a2208\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m aware of the risk posed by these vacancies and that is why we are taking action on multiple fronts to address them. Some of the specialist skills cannot be developed overnight and we do have to invest in our training programmes to get there. We are doing that work. I\u2019ll also note that, over the pandemic, we have seen here and around the world an increase in the mental distress expressed by young people, and there is no health system in the world that would have already had a specialist trained workforce in order to meet those needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246c023e8db5a4046a44bd557a0a3164d\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: In light of the Minister\u2019s answers of addressing the workforce crisis on multiple fronts, what responsibility does she take in light of Dougal Sutherland\u2019s comments today, a clinical psychologist at Victoria University, who said, \u201CThe government\u2019s singular focus on one or two new mental health initiatives has been at the expense of training programmes.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227816bc279334a569a2b0086805a6cf9\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I am very happy to engage with anyone from the sector on how we might improve our training programmes. I am not aware of Dr or Mr Sutherland\u2019s background, but we have work under way with the college of psychiatrists to make sure that there are further psychiatrists trained, including in the area of youth and adolescent mental health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c156376a511452c92cc4470027bd945\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, had no money been spent of the Budget 2022 announcement of $18.7 million for child and adolescent specialist mental health by 31 March of this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216eef80eb4ec4a86bc659fbc67fb4d16\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that that money will begin being spent in the coming month.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225cc0fe44730248b1acb5cfddb136fb7c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Foreign Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022 data-id=\u0022eae0cde0e70d4b629b5655f105d93cf2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eae0cde0e70d4b629b5655f105d93cf2\u0022\u003EIBRAHIM OMER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: What recent announcements has she made in response to Iran\u2019s ongoing human rights abuses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022 data-id=\u002296842826fd004242a273fc5091e676c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296842826fd004242a273fc5091e676c2\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the question. Recently, we have announced an extension to travel bans on individuals responsible for the Iranian Government\u2019s violent response to protests, particularly in the wake of Mahsa Amini\u2019s death in police custody last year. This extension of the travel ban increases the number of banned individuals from 37 to 55, covering more senior Iranian officials involved in human rights violations and the violent suppression of protests. We have taken these steps to condemn the continued harsh repression of peaceful demonstrators and the severe human rights abuses in Iran, including the unjust execution of individuals and the strict enforcement of the Islamic dress code on Iranian women and girls. We stand with likeminded international partners in expressing our deep concern over these actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223827b73cb8bb45e6b82e4752dfbfe152\u0022\u003EIbrahim Omer\u003C/span\u003E: What criteria have been used to identify the individuals to whom the travel ban has been extended?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a9dcac8a87d46fab9cb13af77fabee6\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: The individuals selected for the travel ban are predominantly those who have played significant roles in the egregious human rights abuses in Iran. These include high-ranking Iranian officials involved in the violent suppression of the protests, members of the Iranian judiciary responsible for issuing death sentences in unfair trials, and members of both the law enforcement command and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC). By extending the travel bans, we are sending a clear message that these gross human rights violations will not be tolerated and that those responsible will face serious international consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254535da0280a4b8995e9140958c0bbbe\u0022\u003EIbrahim Omer\u003C/span\u003E: What additional measures are under consideration to further pressure the Iranian Government, particularly with regard to its execution of death penalties and the imposition of strict Islamic dress codes on women and girls?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022981f1f3391154527a679bf83aad6e189\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: We are continuously reviewing and assessing our stance and actions regarding the human rights situation in Iran. As I\u2019ve mentioned, additional individuals and measures remain under consideration. These measures could include further diplomatic actions. We are also working closely with our international partners to coordinate a unified response to the situation. The enforcement of the Islamic dress code on women and girls is indeed concerning, and we\u2019re exploring ways to exert pressure on Iran to respect the rights and freedoms of all its citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022062d94fe6c0d4588a3f263b2e652e668\u0022\u003EGolriz Ghahraman\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister spoken with Prime Minister Hipkins since he became Prime Minister about exercising his discretion to designate the Islamic Revolutionary Guard, or morality police, a terrorist entity, pursuant to existing legislation, which would allow not only travel bans but, importantly, the freezing of assets and banning of funding mechanisms of most individuals who are responsible for terrorising Iranians?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b968e3c7abd490d807357f6c8ee51c1\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: The position of the Government remains the same, but, in light of the particular question regarding the conversation, no, that has not taken place. New Zealand has not designated the IRGC as a terrorist entity, as the IRGC is still considered unlikely to meet the definition of a terrorist entity, including because it\u2019s not clear that it would meet the Act\u2019s definition of an entity. The Terrorism Suppression Act was never intended as a means to respond to human rights violations. Aotearoa New Zealand has other measures against the IRGC, and these include travel bans, sanctions under our Russia Sanctions Act specifically for their role in supporting the illegal invasion of Ukraine, and other UN-mandated sanctions of the IRGC role in nuclear proliferation activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e419a18-df21-483e-9650-2aaee4e06211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022777b75b95597461da01bc8aff018a3da\u0022\u003EIbrahim Omer\u003C/span\u003E: With the recent extension of the travel ban, how does New Zealand plan to ensure the effectiveness of these measures, and what actions will New Zealand take if Iran continues to resist this course?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022334f7ee0cef84fc28e5e9d50f0fca295\u0022\u003EHon NANAIA MAHUTA\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand is committed to upholding human rights and freedom as a nation. We are continuously monitoring the situation in Iran and are prepared to adapt our approach and escalate our actions as necessary. While a part of our response, these travel bans are by no means the limit of our actions. If Iran continues to ignore these calls for respecting human rights, we are prepared to consider more severe measures in coordination with our international partners. Our goal is clear: the Iranian Government must cease its human rights violations, and we will continue to apply pressure until this goal is achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7119061f61f43be8c3c73d71bdb6a1b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022418a03c62c83438e8e2de7d8c04d5cb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022418a03c62c83438e8e2de7d8c04d5cb4\u0022\u003EPENNY SIMMONDS (National\u2014Invercargill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What is the unaudited draft financial surplus or deficit for Te P\u016Bkenga for the financial year ended 31\u00A0December 2022?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa92a41e85be4d429baf6aa1b2506a43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa92a41e85be4d429baf6aa1b2506a43\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E As projected, the deficit is both unaudited and draft; it is subject to change while the auditing process is under way. As at 16 May 2023, when I wrote my letter of expectation to the chair of the Te P\u016Bkenga board, the draft deficit was $86 million for 2022. That letter is publicly available. Audit New Zealand and Te P\u016Bkenga are working towards completing the auditing process by the end of this month, and I will receive the final figure after that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3088128e6aa43b584d0c649b0c41a1e\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Minister saying that, against a budgeted deficit of around $68 million, the actual Te P\u016Bkenga deficit for 2022 is likely to be $86 million\u2014half as much again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2ca0c9d978f48eab66ed243c1d4fd69\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in the primary answer, the projected deficit is both unaudited and draft, and it is subject to change while the auditing process is under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eed5f8b696ea4ea8a0ba78d8ccf0099c\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What specific factual evidence supports the Minister in select committee yesterday stating, regarding Te P\u016Bkenga, \u201CWe have something that is developing really, really well, and I feel a lot more comfort.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ddcf9208feb44a1a51de11e3db72271\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: As the Minister responsible for a Crown entity, I have set my expectations to the board very clearly. In the next 12 months, I have outlined three urgent strategic priorities, which I expect Te P\u016Bkenga to focus and deliver on: (1) delivering quality education and training for all learners; (2) developing a plan towards financial sustainability, including a viable operating model; (3) strong leadership and governance. I have confidence that Te P\u016Bkenga has the leadership and tools to realise the benefits for the new model for students, staff, industry, and communities. But rest assured, I\u2019ll be monitoring this progress very, very carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227315465a244a4c8287d8df66dbcc052a\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister consider that Te P\u016Bkenga, the Government\u2019s mega-merged polytechnic, with a draft deficit of $80 million, failing to meet its financial statutory obligations, failing to meet its unification of programmes target, failing to present a sustainable operating model, failing to be responsive to regional needs, falling student enrolments, and hundreds of redundancies signals an entity in serious trouble?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f15ae10494d45a09e57d3d7ab29c1fc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister can answer any part of that\u2014or not answer it, if she doesn\u2019t want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d1ebb834b2042eea8607bcffe7b2bb4\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve been very clear that the progress in the last three years has been slower than anticipated. But what we aren\u2019t doing here is running a \u201Cbums on seats\u201D model. What we do want is a high-quality education that is responsive to market conditions and sector needs. Would I like it to be faster? Yes, of course. But I understand that the level of transformation that we\u2019re talking about takes time, and it must be done well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222caddb0c27244c72a53fb546701f1a1f\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that, in 2018 when the Government came into office, 80 percent of New Zealand\u2019s polytechnics were facing losses on current trends, that a Cabinet paper was required to bail out Tai Poutini Polytech to the tune of $33 million, and that was followed by another bailout for Unitec in the margin of around a hundred million dollars?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1c1289cce9c4eeeb9e5c849fbc8a4f1\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely I can. That is why this Government wasn\u2019t prepared to put their head in the sand and do nothing about it. We wanted to take action, we did take action, and we are starting to see that now turn around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d702958dcbe14ea1a9352c0da439d918\u0022\u003EPenny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: At what point will the Minister accept that Te P\u016Bkenga, the Government\u2019s mega-merged polytechnic, has reached such a precarious state that she must intervene and disestablish Te P\u016Bkenga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022267cab8cfd2f4a3ebeacbcfd2e35a86e\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Change is always hard, and in particular during times of economic challenges. Overall, the progress has been slower than anticipated over the past three years. However, Te P\u016Bkenga has now transitioned all former institutes of technology and polytechnic subsidiaries and the arranging training function from nine transitional industry training organisations into Te P\u016Bkenga. I have confidence that Te P\u016Bkenga has the leadership and tools to realise the benefits of the new model for students, staff, industries, and communities, and we will be watching this very carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220993da6af09f4efd8aac068ea2839d0f\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. In your review of oral questions, I wonder if you would reflect on whether Mr Robertson\u2019s supplementary question recently met the terms of Speakers\u2019 rulings 183/7 and 191/2, and, if they did, whether there\u2019s going to be a sort of a further Speaker\u2019s ruling in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022844fcbd303324e9c846af86f72a05593\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will do. I will point out that I will look at the whole question and all of the supplementaries and make a judgment on\u2014as I have sat here in real time doing that, I can point out the number of legs in the supplementaries; the assertions, imputations. I\u2019m taking all of that into consideration, and not interrupting another question in the same vein. But I will go back and have a look.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c83012b4-3939-4753-80fc-1956a3e2bd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c67bdbad38840bf9f46433b46c5fe22\u0022\u003EHon Michael Woodhouse\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that point, and accepting it entirely, the House, I think, supports the interpretations of Standing Orders 390 and 396 as it relates to the number of legs; no question. This was different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dcaba2bc6cd4f538fef98d1aab583a6\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022159307a191184a35a77ae3d4a4daf4fd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You may speak to it\u2014I\u2019m not going to change my ruling, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222da7c60973f74ba9a18ddfd0db3551a3\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, Mr Speaker; I just wanted to make the point that Standing Order 390 obviously includes a great deal more than just a matter of legs of a question. It includes imputations, inferences, etc., which is what the Speaker ruled about, and that has been a consistent feature of virtually every Opposition question today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d996b06cc0c8430586f010a36c6c4e5d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022 data-id=\u0022285927de46614068ac0be58185163b6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022285927de46614068ac0be58185163b6e\u0022\u003ETERISA NGOBI (Labour\u2014\u014Ctaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What progress has the Government made for Kiwi consumers this week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022e42f18d9d02441c3b2e76b2e999310ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e42f18d9d02441c3b2e76b2e999310ba\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E A lot. This week, we have made three big steps for consumers. First, I have initiated a Commerce Commission study into retail banking to ensure Kiwis can have faith in banking services and that bank profits are appropriate and justified. Secondly, the Grocery Industry Competition Bill passed through the House last night. The bill advances the interests of Kiwis at the checkout, and it supports local suppliers in the face of a supermarket duopoly that has been making profits well over the odds for years. Thirdly, today, we take a big stride in consumer choice as we publish a draft bill on consumer data rights. This framework will ultimately allow people to shop around for goods and services, including banking, at the touch of a button. It\u2019s been a big week for New Zealand consumers. I am incredibly proud of the progress that this Government is making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdb1addb0d2b4420824644d9b1e8532b\u0022\u003ETerisa Ngobi\u003C/span\u003E: How have you prioritised your efforts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227882bcb15e8e4f13b0a618ccc65adde2\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: On this side of the House, we prioritise making the most difference for the many, not the few, and in particular for those that need it most. That\u2019s why we focused on things like fuel, groceries, building supplies, and now personal banking services. We found market studies to be a powerful tool to get to the bottom of competition issues, and that\u2019s why we\u2019ve asked the Commerce Commission to shine its spotlight on markets that have the greatest effect on the most people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b46cd2d04234ef585d19e5edaf82bf2\u0022\u003ETerisa Ngobi\u003C/span\u003E: What are some signs of progress?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1c855d9ea064598b3a9d3bcabf967af\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: There are lots of signs of progress. The green shoots of competition are visible, and major legislation only passed yesterday. Over 140 pieces of prime land have had their anti-competitive arrangements removed by the supermarket duopoly. Two major supermarket chains have announced they\u2019ve set up wholesale business units, international supermarkets are entering the country, new online Kiwi grocery retailers are growing fast, other retail chains are expanding into groceries, and there are new price innovations like a winter grocery price freeze. This Government addresses long-term problems in a bold and meaningful way, not one that looks for quick political wins\u2014and this makes all the difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225a797c9e-cc29-454e-b348-6a415e930295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222935899a56f94e078a567fcb8f0f1b06\u0022\u003ETerisa Ngobi\u003C/span\u003E: What else is the Government doing for consumers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256ee71ff03694f94b256a47b09a00772\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, but wait, there\u2019s more\u2014and this one\u2019s for free: this week, we made progress on the consumer data right to help Kiwis compare and switch banks and other services at the touch of a button. The draft bill was released today, and we\u2019re on track to introduce that legislation this year. The Government is well advanced on the code for supermarket suppliers and on a system of unit pricing for groceries and on the appointment of the new Grocery Commissioner. We are progressing on the issue of anti-competitive land agreements in the rest of the economy and ensuring an affordable pricing regime for water. This Government is doing everything it can to get New Zealand markets working. We\u2019re the only ones who can be trusted to keep doing this come October this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022382ae3bca96a45fd9c2a072d3e0c2c66\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022 data-id=\u00227cc5c0aa3fde403e862cef898e057c7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cc5c0aa3fde403e862cef898e057c7c\u0022\u003EHARETE HIPANGO (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions regarding Oranga Tamariki?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccf0d26276534d31a206810c22e3617b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccf0d26276534d31a206810c22e3617b\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Let me start by saying any instance of allegations of harm at Oranga Tamariki residences is one too many. It\u2019s disappointing and saddening and totally unacceptable. I requested the role of Minister for Children to make a difference to tamariki and to enable communities to make decisions about and for their own children. I stand by the fact that children do better with wh\u0101nau and the work that is under way to make this happen. What has allegedly happened in Oranga Tamariki residences is incredibly disappointing and deeply concerning, and I know every party in Parliament feels the same on this. Every child deserves to feel safe and secure in these residences, which is why I agree with the decisions announced yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202a393a95b2c4330b5c02ea50ac36da2\u0022\u003EHarete Hipango\u003C/span\u003E: Who informed the Minister on Wednesday, 8 June about the sexual abuse allegations at an Oranga Tamariki youth justice residence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220caea02a9b544690bd49510b009cdb1e\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I can take the House through the time line of events if they wish. I was first informed of an incident at one of the care and protection residences on 8 June. I was advised that it was an isolated incident and that the staff had been removed from the residence. Police were immediately notified and there is an active investigation under way. I made it clear that this was unacceptable and that Oranga Tamariki needed to do better. So that was on 8 June. I think my adviser was the person that told me after she\u2019d been contacted by Oranga Tamariki\u2019s chief executive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab84726356284d7da7938549c93865e9\u0022\u003EHarete Hipango\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Minister for Children not immediately inform his chief executive of Oranga Tamariki of the sexual abuse allegation on 8 June, or within 24 hours of the Minister being notified?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265d08385449c401d8519dae7651c5d04\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: It was the chief executive that informed my office\u2014i.e., my adviser\u2014who immediately informed me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af6d7ec768547fa9de1572046c83ca9\u0022\u003EHarete Hipango\u003C/span\u003E: How could that be when the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki in a media release dated Wednesday, 21 June\u2014yesterday\u2014said, and I quote, \u201COver the past week\u201D\u2014which is Wednesday, 14 June to Wednesday, 21 June\u2014\u201CI have been informed of two serious allegations involving staff acting inappropriately towards young people at Oranga Tamariki.\u201D, when the Minister has disclosed to this House that he was notified on 8 June?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022065a95470e744a32ab6d50ae93cee01e\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is confused. On 8 June, I was notified about the first issue. Last Friday, I was advised of the second issue at a separate residence. On Sunday, I met with Oranga Tamariki, where we discussed the situation and made the decision that there needed to be a review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f954a5ebd0f451ba41bac95823d848a\u0022\u003EHarete Hipango\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when there were children clearly at risk, did the Minister fail to act on 8 June and fail to notify his chief executive at the earliest for immediate action to be taken to either remove the children from the place of alleged abuse or remove the alleged abusers from the youth justice residence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df412af2b5c0471f8404909ee082bb49\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: The chief executive of Oranga Tamariki informed my office on 8 June. At the same time, he informed us that the alleged perpetrator had been stood down and that the child protection protocols had been put in place. So Oranga Tamariki found out and acted immediately to address the situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208f08278004d4945b46981f19e09c02d\u0022\u003EDr Elizabeth Kerekere\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. When the Minister said in the House yesterday that the decision to appoint Mike Bush was the right one, why did he think a former Police Commissioner was a suitable person to conduct an independent rapid assessment, as opposed to the Children\u2019s Commissioner, whom the children felt safe enough to open up to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210c2305469894803bfca18019bf30db8\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: The former commissioner, Mike Bush, has all the skills necessary to investigate what went on and to make the necessary changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ec53e32-05ab-4c6b-a080-4024e72a9099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022520e2c1bf52d44939baab4b931c49b20\u0022\u003EDr Elizabeth Kerekere\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister say to survivors of State care abuse and long-time advocates, such as Paora Moyle, who called for all residences they refer to as \u201Cchildren\u2019s prisons\u201D to be shut down in 2015, 2021, and today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254e51411dcb546ef8a1d5613d105318e\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: So there are two types of residences: a youth justice residence is where children and young people who have committed crimes go to; then there are care and protection residences, which Oranga Tamariki is in a process of transferring out of. There are seven five-bedroom community-based residences planned to be built, but this all takes time\u2014not just to build the residences but also the model of care that\u2019s needed, which will be different. So it just takes time; I\u2019d like it to happen sooner rather than later, but it is starting to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002269dfdffa-4227-42b6-875a-fc8033bc25cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269b8511e703541089c92f14467ebb15e\u0022\u003EJan Logie\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Children\u2019s Commissioner that residences are \u201Cnot fit for purpose and they need to be closed down\u201D, and instead we should have \u201Csmaller, home-style remand centres or places in the community\u201D and, if so\u2014to what he\u2019s discussed just earlier\u2014when will we see that happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d74c804cadb47c6b85ba289ca84421d\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree with the Children\u2019s Commissioner, which is what I just said in the answer to Dr Kerekere. In terms of the when\u2014like I said, I would like it to be sooner rather than later, but it is something that Oranga Tamariki is working on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022868f3a11-6a23-474f-a25e-6bc1d4c6e93f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b47ff9c70a434a2a8a84142f485cf373\u0022\u003EHarete Hipango\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6305241679c4001b587fca5918d842e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, there are no more supplementaries\u2014well, there are in the room, if other members want them? No? OK, very well. That concludes oral questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002259cf49f090c84aceb52766cba745a360\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022557d81d94b8e4d3894f4820ab1eea7fb\u0022\u003EMinisterial Resignation\u2014Hon Michael Wood \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u00221c2353a165d641818473c5f79528460f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c2353a165d641818473c5f79528460f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I have received letters from David Seymour and Christopher Luxon seeking to debate, under Standing Order 399, the resignation of the Hon Michael Wood as a Minister. The applications were received on Wednesday, 21 June, but I indicated that I would consider them today, in light of giving priority to another urgent debate application yesterday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThis is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. The resignation of a Minister will not always lead to an urgent debate\u2014Speakers\u2019 ruling 207/5. After weighing up the circumstances and the public interest in ministerial probity, I have decided to grant the application. David Seymour\u2019s application was received first. Therefore, I call on David Seymour or another member on his behalf to move that the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022164eed6e18284ae9b192d0c3f8193273\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022164eed6e18284ae9b192d0c3f8193273\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of David Seymour: I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe wheels are falling off this Government. When I look across the House, I feel like I\u2019m watching an episode of Looney Tunes as wheels, one by one, fly off the shambolic car bouncing down the road towards the cliff of 14 October. The car doesn\u2019t have any wheels left. Kiritapu Allan, Meka Whaitiri, Stuart Nash, Meng Foon, and now Michael Wood\u2014at least five wheels have fallen off this year. They\u2019ve even lost the spare tyre. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis is a conversation that I\u2019m sure Chris Hipkins doesn\u2019t want to be having. It\u2019s a mess of a year for Labour. His Ministers just can\u2019t seem to sort out their conflicts of interest. The Cabinet is more conflicted than James Shaw at a steakhouse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe had Stuart Nash playing Cabinet Manual bingo, trying to break as many different rules as possible. He interfered in active cases with the Commissioner of Police. He tried to interfere with the judiciary. He gave donors his preferential ear, and he broke Cabinet confidentiality and collective responsibility. Now, ACT is usually pretty opposed to collectivism, but when it comes to Cabinet, even we think that it\u2019s pretty important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EBut we\u2019re not here to talk about Stuart Nash; we\u2019re here to talk about Michael Wood. Stuart Nash had three strikes and was barely out, but Michael Wood has had 12 strikes and he\u2019s still not out. The whole thing has just beggared belief. Michael Wood, for all of his faults, previously never would have been accused of a lack of diligence, which is why everyone has been so taken aback to see him go down in a tailspin of lazy incompetence. He held on for his dear life to his shares in Auckland Airport, despite being reminded by the Cabinet Office to sell them on 12 separate occasions\u201412 times over two years\u2014and by the Prime Minister\u2019s office, actually by two separate Prime Ministers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EMichael Wood\u2019s Auckland Airport shares lasted longer than Jacinda Ardern. Was he playing a game of chicken with the Prime Minister? Did he think, \u201CIf I can just hang on to these shares until she resigns, then the problem will go away.\u201D? Who knows? There aren\u2019t too many people who can claim to have so tenaciously taken on the Prime Minister\u2019s office and the Cabinet Office for such a length of time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EBut of all the possible issues over which to go to war with the Prime Minister and the Cabinet and at the altar of which to ultimately sacrifice your career, a few Auckland Airport shares is actually a strange one. To be honest, a part of me felt sorry for Michael Wood when the story first broke. I imagined him buying shares as a teenager, going to the stockbroker with his parents and spending his savings on some Auckland Airport shares because he liked planes. Then later, his aviation enthusiasm journey coming full circle as Minister of Transport, and being too sentimentally attached to those shares to sell them. I mean, he seemed like a diligent man. Reckless incompetence just didn\u2019t seem to work as an explanation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EBut after yesterday\u2019s revelation, reckless incompetence is the only explanation. It turns out Michael Wood also had undisclosed shares in Chorus, in Spark, and in the parent company of the Bank of New Zealand. In his various roles, Michael Wood has been involved in decisions directly affecting these companies. As Minister of Immigration, he put telecommunications technicians on the Immigration Green List, the same Green List that medical professionals spent months begging to expand to nurses and in-demand medical specialists, and, just this week, Cabinet announced a Commerce Commission investigation into the banking sector. How ironic that the banking sector inquiry, Labour\u2019s latest attempt at a distraction from its last scandal, has ended up being fuel on the fire for the next one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ELabour was desperate this week to distract Kiwis from the fact that they\u2019ve been racially discriminating when prioritising surgical wait-lists. So they announced their pointless inquiry into the banking sector, and what\u2019s that going to do? The grocery sector market study is already all wrapped up, so is the fuel market study, and what have they done? Fuel importer margins are the same; in fact, they\u2019ve gone up in diesel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EKiwis are still feeling squeezed at the pump and their groceries still cost an arm and a leg. People are coming up to me, telling me that when they do their weekly top-up shop, it feels like they\u2019re doing their weekly shop\u2014that filling up their little Suzuki Swift is the price they\u2019d expect to pay to fill up a four-wheel drive. You can do all the market studies in the world, but they won\u2019t make up for Labour\u2019s utterly incompetent economic management, and they won\u2019t wind back the inflation that Grant Robertson\u2019s borrow-and-spend approach to problems has created. But they went ahead and announced a banking market study, and all that\u2019s managed to do is add another conflict to Michael Wood\u2019s rap sheet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ETo paraphrase Oscar Wilde, to have one undeclared financial conflict of interest may be regarded as a misfortune, to have two looks like carelessness, to have three looks like incompetence, and to have four looks like a head on the ministerial chopping block. ACT supports Michael Wood\u2019s decision to resign his ministerial portfolios. Given the duration, significance, and total inability to manage the conflicts in question, we say stepping down was the right thing to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESome people have said, \u201CIt\u2019s just a few shares. What\u2019s the problem?\u201D This issue goes to the heart of our democracy. The power held by the Government comes with an enormous degree of trust from the New Zealand public, and it\u2019s of paramount importance that citizens can have trust that those wielding the decision-making power do not have financial vested interests in the outcomes of their decisions. People developing new subdivisions need to be able to trust that the independent hearings commissioner doesn\u2019t have interests in competing subdivisions. Pub owners applying for a liquor licence need to be able to trust that the licensing committee members don\u2019t have investments in a competing pub. Miners applying for permits need to be able to trust that the responsible Minister hasn\u2019t invested in a company that mines. This is the trust that Kiwis need to be able to have in a Government. Michael Wood has broken that trust, and his Government has broken that trust\u2014really, that\u2019s what this debate boils down to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ECitizens place their trust in a Government to uphold the rule of law, to provide core services as efficiently and as effectively as possible, and to create fair policy and regulations. Any perception of a conflict of interest erodes that trust, and this Government is burning through trust at a startling pace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhat is it with this Government and conflicts of interest? Michael Wood is symbolic of a wider problem\u2014a rot within this Government. It seems anywhere a light is shone a conflict is found. We had Kiritapu Allan, the Minister of Justice\u2014she had received over $10,000 in donations from Meng Foon and his wife. But wait, wasn\u2019t Meng Foon allegedly a non-political appointee reporting to the Minister of Justice? Apparently so. But it\u2019s all in a day\u2019s work for Labour\u2019s tight-knit family. Fortunately, they don\u2019t need to worry about that one any more, after Foon was cast asunder for another conflict. Foon was strewn on a June afternoon, or was he? He came out swinging, saying he hadn\u2019t actually resigned. News of Foon\u2019s doom was communed too soon, and the Prime Minister\u2019s office had leaked his resignation. Far out\u2014what a fiasco!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn response to Michael Wood\u2019s resignation, Chris Hipkins has announced more rules and more bureaucracy. That\u2019s this Government in a nutshell. The problem is not with the rules; it was with Michael Wood\u2019s failure to follow them and Stuart Nash\u2019s failure to follow them. Hiring more people to say Ministers should declare their conflicts of interest is not going to solve the problem, just as every other swollen bureaucracy they\u2019ve established hasn\u2019t solved the problems. They just make life harder and more expensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins has lost control of his Cabinet. I\u2019m sure he\u2019s sick of playing Cabinet clean-up, and I don\u2019t blame him\u2014but Kiwis are going to have a chance to clean up the whole Cabinet soon. On 14 October, Labour won\u2019t have a choice but to listen to Kiwis, who are fed up with a Government who has broken their trust. ACT is looking forward to it; I\u2019m not so sure that Labour is. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00221cb24a9961074bd3b56d08b6d562724c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cb24a9961074bd3b56d08b6d562724c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It is obviously with a heavy heart that I stand to speak in this debate. The resignation of our colleague, Michael Wood, is obviously the right thing for him to. The Prime Minister\u2019s acceptance of it indicated his frustration and anger at the situation. New Zealanders do deserve better than what the saw from Michael Wood, and, therefore, it was appropriate that he resigned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI do want to say, though, as I begin my contribution, that I sat on the other side of the House one day when a member of the ACT Party walked in here and told New Zealanders that he\u2019d stolen a dead baby\u2019s identity. I sat on that side of the House when we learnt that Rodney Hide, the great perk-buster, had been taking perks to travel overseas. So it does happen in this House, from time to time, that people do things that they regret, people do things that are wrong, but I do think it\u2019s important that we all remember our history in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhen the Prime Minister spoke yesterday about receiving Michael Wood\u2019s resignation, he indicated that he had been alerted to additional shareholdings that Mr Wood held in the JM Fairey Family Trust of which he is both a trustee and a beneficiary. The Prime Minister indicated that these new shareholdings raised significant concerns around whether Michael Wood had identified and managed his potential and real conflicts of interest properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EObviously, we had had the earlier incident involving the Auckland Airport shares, but this set of new shareholdings draw into question a number of other decisions in roles that Mr Wood had. Obviously, members will be aware of the earlier discussions of the Cabinet Office and the Prime Minister\u2019s office had had with Mr Wood around the management of his shareholdings, and because he had failed repeatedly to identify, disclose, and appropriately manage those conflicts of interest, this is the reason why Mr Wood took it upon himself to resign, and the Prime Minister accepted that resignation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI say it is with heavy heart for two reasons. The first of those is that Michael Wood has been a good and valued colleague. He has been a competent Minister, a hard-working Minister who has achieved a lot in the portfolios that he works in. As has been stated by members from across the House, he is a person who they have seen as diligent, who they have seen as hard-working, and, from time to time\u2014I know members across the House won\u2019t always say it inside the House, but they have worked with him, particularly in his role as immigration Minister to achieve good outcomes for their constituents, as well as for the country as a whole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EMichael himself released a statement yesterday where he made clear that he understood that his actions meant that he needed to resign and he apologised to the Prime Minister and to the New Zealand public for the fact that he had not managed his conflict of interest effectively and he took responsibility for that in doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo I have a heavy in the sense that he is a colleague that I have valued and someone who I do think genuinely believes in public service and in serving New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe second reason I have a heavy heart is because it is important that, as Ministers, we uphold the Cabinet Manual and the oaths that we take and the undertakings and commitments that we make upon becoming Ministers. We need to engender confidence across the New Zealand public that Ministers\u2014and, indeed, members of Parliament more broadly\u2014are behaving in line with the undertakings that we make. And so whenever a situation like this occurs, it causes distress to all of us, I think, in the House to see this kind of thing happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister has responded in terms of how to make some systemic changes in the wake of Mr Wood\u2019s resignation to ensure that we are able to have a tighter disclosure regime for Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe first of those changes is that Cabinet Office would move to quarterly reporting of conflicts of interest to the Prime Minister. Currently, we do that as part of an annual review or on an ad hoc basis as particular issues arise. Moving to quarterly reporting will create a consistent time frame and a consistent process for which conflicts of interest can be identified and then disclosed and then managed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESecondly, there will be a new escalation process if a Minister is not fully engaging with the process or following the advice of the Cabinet Office on the management of a conflict of interest. The Cabinet Office will now be able to escalate the matter rapidly and directly to the Prime Minister to avoid a situation where a Minister would repeatedly ignore their guidance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThirdly, there will now be in-person annual reviews with each Minister to discuss their conflicts. At the moment, the annual review of Ministers\u2019 interests is conducted by way of letter at the end of the financial year. An in-person meeting will ensure that any issues that arise can be more directly addressed and resolved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFourthly, each Minister will have to nominate a dedicated person in their office to support them with their conflict of interest processes. This means, essentially, there will be another set of eyes in an office around making sure that all conflicts are managed appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAnd fifthly, conflict disclosures will now become\u2014and, in fact, already, have become\u2014a standing item at the start of each Cabinet or Cabinet committee meeting. The Institute of Directors recommends this approach, as it means it\u2019s a standing item and, therefore, nobody can argue that they weren\u2019t aware that they needed to declare those interests at the beginning of a meeting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo that set of initiatives that the Prime Minister is undertaking and putting in place with the Cabinet Office will tighten up the process significantly. But nobody is making any excuses. The rules are clear: the failure of Mr Wood to keep to the rules is the reason why he is no longer a Minister today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is worth noting\u2014and the Prime Minister noted this in his comments about Mr Wood\u2019s resignation yesterday\u2014that in Australia, there is a code of conduct for Ministers that requires that they divest themselves of investments and other interests in any public or private company or business. That is, that other than public superannuation funds or publicly listed managed funds or trust arrangements where the Minister has no visibility or control of decision making\u2014a \u201Cblind trust\u201D, as it is commonly known. Ministers in Australia are unable to hold shares in any other way other than that. I know that the Prime Minister has said he wants to consider whether that approach would be appropriate. I\u2019ve had some conversations in recent weeks with Australian Ministers who indicate that that very clear line has made it much easier for them. Many of them have had shareholdings in the past but, on becoming a Minister, they know exactly what the rules are, they make the shift to the managed trust or the blind trust or keep things within their superannuation, and there is simply no way one way or the other. That is, obviously, something the Prime Minister is seriously considering, and I think all members in the House might want to think about whether that is a good idea to make sure that there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to reiterate the fact that I don\u2019t believe that Michael Wood has acted at any point during this process with the intent of personal gain. That is simply not in the character of the name. What has happened here is there has been an extremely large oversight and poor exercise of judgment in the management of conflicts of interest. As a result of that, Mr Wood has resigned. He will be searching his soul, and he will have a heavy heart too. I want him to know, on behalf of his colleagues, that we love him and that we continue to do support him, acknowledging that he has done the right thing by resigning in this instance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the leadership of the Prime Minister here, Chris Hipkins. In the four or five months since he has been the Prime Minister, there have been many issues that New Zealand has had to deal with, including the severe weather events, including dealing with the ongoing impacts of the global economic crisis that we\u2019re seeing, making sure that New Zealand rebuilds its way out from that. The Prime Minister has been doing an excellent job of leading the country. He has been internationally out there, ensuring that trade agreements have been finalised, making sure that New Zealand is well-represented, and this weekend he will go to China for a very high-level and high-profile visit. The Prime Minister is doing an excellent job of leading a Cabinet that is completely committed to the work that we have to do to build an ever-stronger, more prosperous country where we include people. We have made great strides on that in the last few years and, indeed, in the time that Mr Hipkins has been in charge of the Government. The Government remains fully focused on that work and we look forward to continuing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00228aca09e606e34b79aed9999d84a34058\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228aca09e606e34b79aed9999d84a34058\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, New Zealanders tuning in to this debate might well wonder why on earth all this fuss about a Minister and his shares at a time when the economy is in recession and where we are having high inflation and people struggling to keep up with the cost of living; when we\u2019ve got a rise in violent crime and a plague of ram raids and real issues around trying to restore law and order; where we\u2019ve got an education system where a large number of kids are not attending school regularly, and when they do, the results of their studies are not keeping up with where they were in the past; and in the health system where we\u2019ve spent billions and billions of dollars and, notwithstanding all the talk and the promises around mental health, we just hear today waiting times for children in mental health have gone from 28 days to more than 70 days in the Wellington region. So there are many, many challenges\u2014serious challenges\u2014for this country that we need to deal with, and yet we are talking about the resignation of a senior Cabinet Minister over failures to do the basics in terms of managing the conflicts of interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo we take no joy in this on this side of the House. We don\u2019t get excited or happy about it. What we see is a Government that is losing its coherence. It\u2019s showing itself to be incompetent and not focusing on the real issues of the day at a time when New Zealanders have real challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo what happened\u2014what happened with Michael Wood? It started off with the fact that he became Minister, he became the Minister of Transport, and it turned out he also had a substantial pile of Auckland Airport shares. Now, the Minister of Transport sets regulations that affect the value of those shares. He also is responsible for Auckland\u2019s public transport plans and spending plans, which also have a real influence on the value of Auckland Airport shares. So the obvious thing he should\u2019ve done right at the start was just sell the shares, and that was his first mistake, because he didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen, he didn\u2019t actually declare that he owned the shares for more than a year. He feebly came up with the excuse that he thought because they were in a trust he didn\u2019t have to declare them, which was pure nonsense. Eventually, after more than a year, he got round to declaring the shares publicly in his pecuniary interest, but then he didn\u2019t manage that conflict of interest, because he carried on continuing to make conflicted decisions as Minister, such as those related to the North Shore Airport rules and regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo, three mistakes there, and in the meantime he\u2019d been carrying out a conversation with the Cabinet Office, because he had told the Cabinet Office\u2014not the public and the pecuniary interest, but the Cabinet Office\u2014that he had these shares and he was going to sell them. Then, we had the black comedy, I suppose, that slowly emerged of the six times that he had promised to sell the shares and then it turned out it was 12 times that he promised to sell the shares and then it emerges today that there were 16 conversations and he never quite got round to it. Then, we had the indignity of a Minister of the Crown saying, \u201CI was too busy, too busy doing important things as Minister to focus on this trivia, and it never really happened.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo we have the image of an ineffectual Prime Minister Chris Hipkins standing in front of his Cabinet colleagues, laying down the law, saying, \u201CYou\u2019ve got to get these conflicts sorted and you\u2019ve got to obey the Cabinet Manual.\u201D He sat them down; they all sat around at the table after Stuart Nash\u2019s imbroglio, after Kiri Allan\u2019s imbroglio\u2014he sat them down and said, \u201CWe\u2019ve got to get this right.\u201D Michael Wood was sitting there with his fingers in his ears, not listening. So that made the Prime Minister look ineffectual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI am bound to say this whole episode reflects very badly on the previous Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, who ran the shop and was responsible for the Cabinet Office and for more than a year and a half allowed a situation where one of her senior Ministers had a conflict and wasn\u2019t managing it and was refusing to do what he said he was going to do time and time again. That reflects very poorly on her management of her Cabinet over an extended period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen we got the new Prime Minister, who came in focusing on bread and butter, eating sausage rolls, and being Mr Nice Guy, and he has failed to manage this as well. So what we see is a culture in this Cabinet and in this Government of entitlement. I don\u2019t often agree with what the commentator Matthew Hooton says, but I think he actually got it right on this one, which to say that it appears that Michael Wood had come to the conclusion that all these rules in the Cabinet Manual around conflicts were only written to deal with the filthy Tories and that right upstanding socialist members of the Labour Party would never actually\u2014it\u2019s not appropriate for them to have to worry about such things; they\u2019re only for the filthy Tories. And he carried on confident in his moral great worth and that he didn\u2019t have to deal with this sort of nonsense. That was, I suppose, implicit in his reply at the start when he said, \u201COh, well, I was too busy as a Minister doing 70-hour weeks, and I didn\u2019t get around to it.\u201D So as well as a culture of entitlement, it also reflects a culture of slackness when it comes to managing these conflicts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhy are conflicts of interest important to be managed? Because, ultimately, Governments spend billions and billions of dollars, and they also pass regulations, such as our Minister of Transport, that have a real impact on the value of other assets. So it is very important, obviously, in a country with such high standards that it is clear that Ministers or their families wouldn\u2019t benefit from that spending directly or from the decisions that are made, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo the Cabinet Manual says that \u201CMinisters are responsible for ensuring that no conflict exists or appears to exist between their personal interests and their public duty. Ministers must conduct themselves at all times in the knowledge that their role is a public one; appearances and propriety can be as important as actual conflicts of interest.\u201D That is why, in the undergrowth, we\u2019ve had the implication that Michael Wood, while he never intended to make any money out of this and wasn\u2019t focused on his personal gains\u2014and that\u2019s probably the case, but that\u2019s not the point. The point of managing conflicts of interest properly is so that society as a whole can have confidence that the ministry and the Minister and Cabinet as a whole are managing these things effectively, and the failure to do so is a real problem. So we\u2019ve got the standing-down of the Minister, the distraction that has created, and it reflects a culture of entitlement and slackness in Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe other point I wanted to raise was in relation to the Minister who has just spoken, the Minister of Finance, still referring to Michael Wood as competent, as hard-working, and as someone who achieved a lot and was diligent. I don\u2019t like to be unkind but I think that that can be challenged. When we think about it, in the transport space, I think all New Zealanders are conscious of the fact that the roads are in terrible shape. There are potholes everywhere. They haven\u2019t really started and finished an effective major new roading project since they started. They\u2019ve open a few roads that National started\u2014brilliant roads in Cambridge, and one going north of Auckland and one coming out of Wellington. Yes, they\u2019ve opened those but none of them was started by them. In fact, all the extensions were stopped by the Labour Government. We are also conscious of the fact that this is a Minister who managed to spend $55 million on a cycleway over Auckland Harbour Bridge that went nowhere and was a complete waste of time, and did nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also conscious of the fact that this is the Minister that\u2019s responsible for the slow tram down Dominion Road, and they\u2019ve probably spent $200 million on consultants. I don\u2019t know the exact figure but it\u2019s a huge sum, and they achieved no progress whatsoever. This is a Minister that has really not achieved a great deal at all on the transport side. On the industrial relations side, I was talking to him\u2014in fact, I had probably the last engagement with him as Minister at 11 o\u2019clock yesterday. We had the Estimates, and I was asking him why, despite all the promises, the Government had done nothing to deal with the complications of the Holidays Act, which was putting huge problems into both the private and public sector. Nobody can work it out, but he hasn\u2019t done anything about that. He\u2019s spent all his time and attention on an ideological union-friendly fair pay agreements regime, which will be repealed forthwith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo I just think Michael Wood does need to go away and reflect upon his actions. It is absolutely right and proper that he has resigned and that the Prime Minister has accepted that. I do encourage the ministry as a whole to reflect on this and on the importance of managing conflicts of interest properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022 data-id=\u0022879edb4496ec47e4bbfd6b5f8c95a868\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022879edb4496ec47e4bbfd6b5f8c95a868\u0022\u003EGOLRIZ GHAHRAMAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. As others have said, it\u2019s with a heavy heart that I stand to speak in this debate. It is a sad day when any Minister or member of this House has to step down, in particular in the types of circumstances that we see arising round this debate. But this is, in fact, a debate about democracy. The issues that at the core of this debate, to us as the Green Party, are not about an individual Minister but about strengthening public confidence in our democracy, both in the way that we are seen and in fact operate in Government and as members of this House of Representatives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has a proud history of democracy. We often applaud ourselves rightly for being the country that first gave women the vote. We often applaud our very, very high rankings on corruption scales in terms of being free from corruption, and perception is a big part of the way that democracy operates. We know that every time there is a so-called scandal in this House we all lose voters. The public don\u2019t want to see this in any political party. So it is a sad day for us, and it\u2019s a day of reflection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EBut what I would hope is that we do that in terms of the changes to come in a holistic view. So we look at trust in our electoral system, in our lobbying rules, in our electoral funding rules as well as the Cabinet Manual. We do support the Prime Minister\u2019s approach in its strength for looking at system change, for looking at more transparency\u2014a further consequence and accountability in the way that Ministers who fall short of their reporting responsibilities are dealt with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI have heard the Opposition say, \u201CWell, this was a case of the rules being already in place and being broken by a Minister.\u201D But again, having those rules in place is, at its highest point, about keeping our Governments from conflicts of interest, in fact, but also the appearance that we are accountable, that our possible conflicts of interest are transparently dealt with so that we don\u2019t get to this place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ETo have an opaque system, I think, has not served us well, and there is vast research now that the overwhelming majority of New Zealanders support reform around transparency of the rules for all politicians, starting with political donation regimes\u2014whether it\u2019s lowering the threshold for secret donations; whether it\u2019s actually capping political donations, which I think most New Zealanders would be shocked to find has not happened; setting out rules around lobbyists; whether that\u2019s having a register; or to go further, as other like-minded nations have done, and have a code of ethics for Ministers, members of this House, and also lobbying organisations and individuals to follow, that those rules be made transparent; and to implement rules that show that members of Government, because of course it is most important that the highest-level decision-makers are kept impartial, are in fact impartial and transparent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo, in particular, I would say that the Prime Minister\u2019s note that he will be seeking advice on implementing a regime similar to that in Australia is welcome. To have clearer rules\u2014and again, public trust in the fact that no Minister with responsibility or visibility in an area of work will be allowed to hold any financial interests in that sector\u2014is a clear signal that we, as a House, and this Government, in particular, at this moment of somewhat darkness, is showing a commitment to changing the rules so that there is a perception of propriety. That there is a notice given to the fact that the public deserve to know that where someone is making a decision, that that person is making that decision based on the welfare of New Zealanders as a whole rather than any other stakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EWhich is why I say the political donations regime must sit alongside this type of reform, because what we are saying is that democracy benefits from trust in the independence of decision makers. That means parliamentarians, as the legislature; as well as Cabinet, as the executive. So they do need to sit together. We\u2019ve had so much research telling us this, including the outcome of the inquiry that came out just this month that that laid out for us just exactly what rules were falling short of that in terms of donations regime; in terms of lobbying. And, now, we have this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI implore every member of this House to come together, finally, to have some consensus around the fact that rules do need to be updated; that our democracy will only thrive if we do all come together and say, \u201CActually, we won\u2019t wait for the next crisis.\u201D I do want to remind members from every party that every party will have some form of challenge when it comes to this. Last term, when I raised political donation reform, it was only prioritised when, finally, three different parliamentary political parties got into trouble for donations. It was ranging from the allegation that there\u2019d been overseas political donations received and chopped up to be kept under the limit, to the setting up of the New Zealand First Foundation. These are allegations, of course, and some have been dealt with. This Minister of Justice has finally changed some of the transparency rules along the lines of the Green Party\u2019s policy, and also the previous Prime Minister closed that foundation loophole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EBut why does it have to be crisis after crisis that leads us to this reform? It would be awesome if we took party politics out of electoral reform, looked at the evidence in front of us that the experts from the Electoral Commission, the Supreme Court, and the Waitangi Tribunal have repeatedly told us about the ways that we need to strengthen democracy in our nation, because the stakes are high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003EI say again: when public trust is lost, we all lose. There is ample evidence that when people lose trust in politicians, they don\u2019t pick and choose between our parties. We disengage them. Ultimately, that means that this House is responsive and responsible to fewer sectors and our society, that our decisions are weakened because of that, and democracy as a whole fails. We are responsible for upholding democracy. We are its representatives at the highest level in this nation; in this nation that has a proud history of democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022abf27403-4392-47c9-9af0-6773753e95cb\u0022\u003ESo we support the Government\u2019s response, but we also ask that we, as a House of Representatives, finally today come together and take an impartial\u2014can I use that word?\u2014approach to electoral reform as a whole to commit to strengthening democracy. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022bab730e7eeaa46b1ad3ab589a74011a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bab730e7eeaa46b1ad3ab589a74011a6\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I join with many members in this House who have said that that this is never a topic that this House enjoys debating. I don\u2019t think there isn\u2019t a party in here that hasn\u2019t had to grapple with the loss of a colleague who has been forced to resign from one position or other because we as a Chamber\u2014we as a House\u2014do take these matters with the utmost seriousness; it is something, as parliamentarians, that we do view very seriously. I think the tenor of the debate has been one that shows just how seriously that we do, as a collective Parliament, view these matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI think one of the things that nobody in this House is going to disagree on is that New Zealanders rightly expect and deserve very high standards from their Ministers and from their parliamentarians in terms of trust, in terms of transparency, and in terms of people following the rules. What we have seen yesterday with the with the resignation of my colleague Michael Wood is that he accepted that he had fallen short of those expectations, and certainly fallen short in his behaviours of the expectations that our Prime Minister, Chris Hipkins, has laid out very clearly to us as Ministers as what he expects, and has paid the ultimate price for that. It\u2019s never a nice thing to have to grapple with, though. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EAs previous speakers have said in this debate, our transparency and our willingness and openness to declare what potential conflicts our parliamentarians and our Ministers may have, given things they own and interests they have lies, at the very heart of building the trust and the New Zealand system. So not only do Ministers need to disclose anything that may be of conflict of interest in their decision making when they come to make decisions in actively manage any of those conflicts as they arise\u2014declare them and manage them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWe do that through a process with the Cabinet Office, and that is laid out in the Cabinet Manual and laid bare. New Zealand has had a Cabinet Manual, as it is now known, but had previous names earlier, since 1979, and this is very clearly laid out in terms of that authoritative guide to central government decision-making for Ministers and indeed for the broader public service about how things operate. It\u2019s endorsed at the first Cabinet meeting of an administration in terms of how it is going to provide for the orderly recommencement of the Government and the expectations around how it is that things are going to operate from there, and it is an important document at the heart of any Government that is formed in this country, and has been for a number of decades now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut we as parliamentarians also take our responsibilities to declare any interests that we may have seriously, as well\u2014it\u2019s not just Ministers. We need to declare those through the pecuniary interest process so that everybody can see what it is that a particular member, what interests they have and what could possibly be an influence on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOne of the things that has come through very strongly in this debate, as I don\u2019t think there are members in this House who believe that Michael Wood\u2019s failure to meet those expectations in terms of the management of his conflicts of interest\u2014and not just the expectations, but to actively put in place all the rail guards he needed to do\u2014was for personal gain. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s anyone in this House who believes that to be the case. But I think what everybody in this House is an agreement on is that we, rightly, have these protections because it is so fundamental to the trust that New Zealanders need to be able to put in their Parliament and in their Government, and that is something that we hold dearly to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhy I\u2019ve been somewhat heartened by the debate and some of the discussion that we have heard over the last 24 hours, which hasn\u2019t been a pleasant time\u2014but I\u2019ve been somewhat heartened to hear some of the agreement that seems to be building. The Prime Minister has sketched out some of the things that he\u2019s going to put in place in terms of moving to quarterly reporting with the Cabinet Office on the conflicts and not just the annual update as it is now, putting in place a different escalation process if a Minister is not fully engaging with the active management of their conflict, having that dedicated person in your office who can be the second pair of eyes and ears that says \u201CHold on, you probably need to pull back from being involved in this decision because of X\u201D\u2014I think that is an important safeguard that can be put in place\u2014and also those full disclosures before a standing item at the start of a Cabinet meeting or a Cabinet committee meeting, and this is just good governance practice. This is something that you see at a range of governance environments with it as put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut I think also the Prime Minister is beginning that conversation about regimes such as exists in Australia\u2014such as the restriction regime on shareholding for Ministers and the way in which that can be managed\u2014and it\u2019s been heartening to hear other parties wanting to engage in a really mature way with their conversation and question whether that is a system that we also need in New Zealand so that there\u2019s no ifs, buts, or maybes, but you know that when you become a Minister, there is an action that needs to be taken. It\u2019s in black and white that you need to put that those assets into a different form in terms of it being a blind trust or an equivalent so that you\u2019re not actively involved in the management of those assets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI think that that is a debate and a discussion that would strengthen us, as a Parliament, if we can have that discussion in a really constructive way because we can see how it operates in Australia, because at the heart of this lies the question of trust, and it\u2019s something the all of us as elected representatives need to take seriously. The public need to know that we understand and know the rules and that we will follow them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat we are standing here debating today is a debate that\u2019s been sparked by someone who has paid the ultimate price for not following those rules and not following the expectations that were clearly set out by our Prime Minister. But I think we also do need to, in the context of having this mature discussion, acknowledge the hard work that that Minister his put in, but also accept that there is a consequence when the rules are not followed. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00225005204950914a2b8e0eff0e004f9da8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225005204950914a2b8e0eff0e004f9da8\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. This is a really serious topic and a really serious debate. It is actually quite flabbergasting to members on this side of the House who have watched the events of the last month or so since the news about Michael Wood\u2019s shares have become public, because I think, like many members of the public, and I suspect\u2014without being too political\u2014like backbench members of the Government, I think we\u2019ve all just been sitting back and saying, \u201CHow did this happen? How did it get to this point?\u201D It is bewildering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ENow look, people have their own views about Michael Wood. Certainly I\u2019m critical of various elements of his discharge of the transport portfolio, but he, I think we\u2019d all agree, is a conscientious guy, and almost pious in his deliberations sometimes. He was about the last person one would have thought would find himself in this situation. But it is, as the previous speaker, the Minister for Infrastructure, said, a really serious matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI think there are three things that have struck us on this side of the House. The first is that there\u2019s clearly been a breach of the Cabinet Manual, and, as the Minister who just sat down said, we\u2019ve had that Cabinet Manual for a long time now. The provisions are well understood, and the provisions around the conflicts of interest are well understood. You have to declare them. It\u2019s not that you can\u2019t, as a Minister, have a conflict, it\u2019s just that you have to declare them, and then there has to be a plan put in place around how that is managed. Now, I\u2019ve never served as a Cabinet Minister, but I\u2019ve worked in Cabinet Ministers\u2019 offices, and that\u2019s ordinarily taken really seriously. Many Ministers have conflicts around some things, and it\u2019s just about how those are managed. In this case with Michael Wood, it was not managed, and, in fact, it couldn\u2019t have been managed because there was no proper declaration, and that\u2019s the real point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve learnt over the last couple of weeks is that the Minister was told 12 times by the Cabinet Office to divest himself of shares in Auckland International Airport and Contact Energy. Those exhortations fell on deaf ears, and as we now learnt yesterday, there were 16 interactions between the Cabinet Office and his office. It\u2019s just baffling, to be honest. To be honest, I think there are legitimate questions to be asked about the conduct of the Cabinet Office here, because it\u2019s not at all clear to us or the public exactly what happened between the office and Minister Wood\u2019s office, and exactly how much information Prime Ministers\u2014plural\u2014learnt: former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and current Prime Minister Chris Hipkins. Now, again, without being too political about it, in past regimes or past Governments, if a senior Minister or a relatively senior Minister had, essentially, ignored or actually misled, potentially, the Cabinet Office\u2014in the last National Government, that would have been escalated very quickly to the Prime Minister and action would have been taken. It\u2019s not clear that that\u2019s actually taken place in this instance. So there\u2019s a breach of the Cabinet Manual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe second point\u2014and it\u2019s kind of been glossed over a little bit\u2014is the breach of the Standing Orders, or possible breach of the Standing Orders, which is the pecuniary interests register. Now, the registrar, Sir Maarten Wevers, is conducting an investigation into that, but without prejudging that inquiry, as that would be inappropriate, at first glance it doesn\u2019t look good, because all MPs in this Parliament\u2014this is separate from the Cabinet Office issue\u2014have to declare their interests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EYou know, it\u2019s become widely known, but I own 500 shares in Parrotdog Brewery, which I participated in as a sign of good faith in their crowd-funding investments a few years ago, and I\u2019ve held on to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf0f3c014da045719d4358f18c4e943d\u0022\u003ESimon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s that going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022093e61f106164943acd656a3983ac187\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it\u2019s going well. It\u2019s a great product, Mr Watts. I was going to encourage you to buy some, but that would also be inappropriate, but it\u2019s going well. But most members\u2014well, in fact, all members are required to declare their interests, and it\u2019s always interesting when the register comes out to see who\u2019s got free clothes and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022188af9abdf6d4595b85cbc2c6795e3cf\u0022\u003EChris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: Warriors tickets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228545cc1ffd8942b7b1a05b90cae247c3\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Warriors tickets, in the case of Chris Penk, and various forms of liqueur from Taiwan and China and all sorts of other places. So it\u2019s always very interesting to have a look at. Actually, we sometimes find it a little bit comical, and the media sort of immediately focus on the kind of minutiae of it all\u2014you know, who owns minor shares in craft breweries and things like that. But it\u2019s really important, and, in fact, Parliament has recently recognised it\u2019s so important: we\u2019ve put in place a register for local government as well, because it\u2019s the same principle, which is that people should know what your interests are. Those interests have not been declared, so that\u2019s the second thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe third thing is a slightly more esoteric point, which is\u2014and it pains me to say it a little bit\u2014there has, I think, been a degree of contempt for Parliament and the Cabinet Office through this process, and a degree of arrogance that I think people find bewildering. To return to where I started, people are sitting back and saying, \u201CWhere does this guy get off thinking that he can just kind of ignore the rules? Do they not apply to Michael Wood?\u201D What is confusing and baffling is that we\u2019re yet to get, really, an adequate explanation. Even in his sort of resignation statement, we saw this kind of backhanded way of essentially excusing himself by saying, \u201COh well, I\u2019ve been so focused on my work, I haven\u2019t been able to kind of take care of life administration.\u201D, like that\u2019s an excuse. It doesn\u2019t make any sense, actually. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s the sort of third thing that he is charged with and, I think, guilty of. It is the breach of the Cabinet Manual and the breach of the Standing Orders, but, most importantly, it\u2019s a sort of basic contempt for the rules that apply to all of us in this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhy is this important? Because I strongly suspect that there\u2019d be a few members of the public\u2014in fact, quite a few in the last few days and weeks\u2014who have been saying, \u201CYou know, law and order is a real issue, and the cost of living. I\u2019m trying to pay the mortgage, and you guys down in Wellington are focusing on whether or not some guy I don\u2019t really know has sold some shares in a company I didn\u2019t even know was listed on the stock exchange.\u201D Well, fair enough, and there\u2019s a degree to which that is true. The reason it matters is that probity in public life is important. We have the regime for a reason, and it\u2019s to guard against Ministers and all of us in the Parliament making decisions in a way that would potentially enrich ourselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not, I hasten to add, accusing Michael Wood of that. But the rules are there for a reason, to guard against that. That\u2019s why they\u2019re there, and that\u2019s why they\u2019ve been upheld by successive administrations and jurisdictions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo the rules are really important. They are part and parcel of our commitment to anti-corruption. We\u2019re all very proud in this Parliament of the ranking in the Transparency International annual indexes, and we proclaim that we\u2019re clean and transparent and that New Zealand is a country governed by the rule of law, and where people here and people in the ministry are not guided by personal enrichment or helping their family members. They\u2019re the guided by the public interest and by what\u2019s right, which is improving New Zealand\u2014and that\u2019s as it should be. I\u2019m not, as I say again, accusing Michael Wood of that, but the rules to guard against that are there, and he, unfortunately, has breached those rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo the rules are really important, and the Prime Minister\u2019s done the right thing by removing him from the ministry, because when there are rules that are there for a reason and they\u2019re really important rules and there\u2019s a breach of them, there have to be consequences\u2014there have to be. The right thing has happened here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EJust finally in closing, there is a suggestion that the rules need changing, and, yep, I think there\u2019s some sensible things that the Prime Minister has advocated: things like at the start of Cabinet meetings, just having a quick around-the-room around conflict declaration\u2014actually, that\u2019s no different to what would happen at any board meeting in New Zealand. That\u2019s sensible and that\u2019s fine. But the real issue here is not that the rules need changing; the issue is the rules have been broken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EActually, the system works pretty well when declarations are made, and it\u2019s not hard to comply. Yep, life\u2019s complicated. Yep, people have got family things, and lots of people in this House have got more complicated financial arrangements than me and some others. But it\u2019s not actually that hard, and it should be the first thing you do as a Minister and as a member of Parliament, in the same way that the Speaker always encourages us to get our pecuniary interests register in on time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo do the rules need changing? Maybe, but\u2014most importantly\u2014the rules need to be complied with. That\u2019s what hasn\u2019t happened here, and so we welcome the resignation of Michael Wood. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022 data-id=\u0022068884887bba426cb8a3ab8f99f2624d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022068884887bba426cb8a3ab8f99f2624d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t want to take up too much more of the House\u2019s time on this matter, and it is a most unfortunate matter not just for members on this side of the House and former Cabinet colleagues of the Hon Michael Wood but actually for this House as well, as, indeed, the loss of a member in these circumstances often entails.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EI agree with the member who\u2019s resumed his seat, Chris Bishop, in one important step, and that is that probity in public life matters. It is a matter of public trust and confidence in our public institution. And, as I think Golriz Ghahraman also said, a fundamental principle that underpins our democracy is that those in public office and those in public life conduct themselves to a set of standards that maintain public confidence, people know that those exercising power and making decisions in the public interest do so un-conflicted and unaffected by personal interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why this is very unfortunate. When I think about the Hon Michael Wood, who I also consider a friend\u2014I\u2019ve known him a long time\u2014he is someone who is ordinarily incredibly diligent, incredibly conscientious, and has acquitted himself as a Minister in that way as well and has done some great things. He has pushed along the transport portfolio, the immigration portfolio, and made some great gains at a time when we most needed it too. But he has transgressed the rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe reason we have rules is that, in the conduct of human affairs, there are standards we expect to be kept, we send a clear signal about the standards we expect, and when we transgress them, when we breach them, when we step outside them, there is therefore the grounds to net out a consequence. Michael Wood has met a consequence. He has lost his role as a Cabinet Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt sounds trite sometimes, but being in the role of being a Cabinet Minister is an extraordinary privilege and it is an extraordinary honour, but it carries responsibility and it carries requirements. Being in the role of a Cabinet Minister is an example-setting role that we have in society and in our community. When you don\u2019t meet the standards, then there\u2019s only one course of action, and that is loss of office, and that is what has happened in this case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EThe members opposite have quite rightly drawn attention to the transgressions of the rules, of course, and the House should consider that, and that is what we are focusing on in this discussion and in this debate. But the reality is: that transgression having been identified has been met with a consequence. A person has lost their job. That\u2019s what should happen and that is what has happened. It is unfortunate. There have been two or three others as well. But that is the Prime Minister upholding the rules and upholding the standards of public office that he demands and that New Zealanders expect. That is the right outcome and the right course of action in this case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003EIt will be a distraction to some, but I can reassure the House that it is not a distraction to the rest of Cabinet. We as a Cabinet are getting on with addressing the challenging issues that New Zealanders have: the issues of cost of living, making sure that income support is there; the issues of our health system, adding to the additional 1,300 mental health front-line roles that we now have and didn\u2019t have three years ago, continuing the record investment in upgrading our health facilities; continuing our record of adding more teachers, increasing their pay, adding more classrooms; adding more public houses because those are the things that matter to people. Those are the things that change people\u2019s lives for the better. The rest of this Government is getting on with that work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022106966ef-8cc3-434a-9dbe-dd76b708c2a1\u0022\u003ELet us stop and reflect and lament about the conduct of this particular Minister and the unfortunate breach of standards that he himself was responsible for but let us also reflect that the right outcome has been achieved and that standards of public office have been properly upheld with a consequence that he has now suffered. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022392aeb8f14b948209392abdc3af449bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022392aeb8f14b948209392abdc3af449bb\u0022\u003ECHRIS PENK (National\u2014Kaipara ki Mahurangi):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise more in sorrow than in anger, and I reflect on the framing of that discussion by our colleague the Hon Andrew Little, who has just resumed his seat. He spoke of lament, which I think that all who care about this institution of Parliament and democracy must also feel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI think some helpful discussions have been had about why these kinds of issue matter and, therefore, why the resignation of the Hon Michael Wood as a Minister also matters. I think that it\u2019s right to describe the issues as being significant in themselves, and if we\u2019re thinking about what they signify, we should consider such distinctions as perceived versus actual conflict of interest, the importance of office and institutions more so than the individual, and so forth. But I don\u2019t agree with Mr Little\u2019s characterisation of this as something that is merely significant in itself but which has had no effect on the work of the Government or on the world outside this place, because, actually, it\u2019s been perfectly apparent that the distraction that this has caused the Government is very real, and it would be strange if that were not the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIf it were the case that Mr Wood\u2019s work programme was not significant, then his resignation would be insignificant, and if this was not a distraction to the Government, then that would indicate that the work that he was doing wasn\u2019t significant. Well, I think it should always be the case that the work of the Minister of Transport, the Minister for Auckland issues, the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety, and so forth, is significant. Surely it must be, even\u2014as we would say on this side of the House\u2014that aspects of the performance of that role we wouldn\u2019t, of course, commend, even as we might acknowledge in other respects that there have been good-faith attempts to improve the lot of New Zealanders, according to the idea of that Minister and that Minister\u2019s Cabinet colleagues of what constitutes improvement for the lives of New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThere has been an element of distraction. If I can give an example from my own electorate, and actually it\u2019s a positive one to the extent that it reflects on the willingness of Mr Wood to engage with the people of the Muriwai community. So in his capacity as Minister for Auckland issues, Michael Wood came to that community. He\u2019s been there a couple of times, and I\u2019ve attended on both occasions, along with other parliamentary colleagues, including, certainly, Vanushi Walters. It was as recently as last week that we were all gathered in that place and hearing the very serious and real concerns of a community that has been torn apart by the movement of the ground, and flooding issues following Cyclone Gabrielle, and to lose the continuity, to no longer have that particular Minister in that role, and to lose the benefit of those personal relationships and connection with the community that have been gained, is actually a highly significant matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ESo I lament the distraction and the disruption that has been caused thereby, along with the inevitable impact that changing of Cabinet roles will have, which is to say that Cabinet colleagues will take on other of his work. No doubt that there\u2019ll be an opportunity cost there in terms of things that they should be turning their minds to, to benefit New Zealanders. Again, I say that regardless of whether we would agree with all the decisions being made, it\u2019s an important thing for decisions to be able to be made for progress, and for the view of the Government to be made, and then New Zealand people can judge that on its merits at all times, including in the face of a looming general election. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI want to talk about also, in my remaining time, the importance of perception being almost as equal to reality. So of course we talk about conflicts of interest being perceived or actual, and that\u2019s a fair distinction in the way that my colleague and friend Chris Bishop has explained that as far as he\u2019s concerned\u2014and it\u2019s a view that I share\u2014there\u2019s no suggestion that Mr Wood had acted in a way designed to improve his financial prospects. Indeed, Mr Wood has said that he\u2019s been ignorant of his own affairs precisely because he has a disregard for those. Well, that\u2019s fine as far as it goes, but, of course, if the institution of Parliament and, indeed, Cabinet and our democratic mechanisms of accountability are important, then in the same way that justice must not only be done but be seen to be done, so too it\u2019s important that perceived conflicts of interest are considered no less serious than actual. Of course, for that reason and the others that I\u2019ve said and others have said, it\u2019s appropriate that he resign. It\u2019s appropriate that that resignation be accepted. So, more in sorrow than in anger, we reflect on the disruption and the distraction that that has caused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0860c7bb321469a935e6f7bc0f6f70c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0860c7bb321469a935e6f7bc0f6f70c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have followed some of this debate from my office and there\u2019s really not much more to be said. So I\u2019ll just emphasise a small number of points and leave it at that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI think it is true that members on all sides of this House and the New Zealand public expect high standards from Ministers of the Crown and we uphold them in New Zealand, and that\u2019s one of the reasons why New Zealand ranks highest in the world in the anti-corruption\u2014or, you know, lowest levels of corruption index for the world. We maintain that ranking by, when we find examples of behaviour that doesn\u2019t meet those high standards, people pay a high price for them and that has occurred here. So whilst we don\u2019t believe that Michael Wood acted in any of his decisions in a way that was intended to profit himself or his family personally, and, indeed, these shareholdings are at a level where it\u2019s hard to think that one would be influenced in that way\u2014and I\u2019m grateful that other members in the House in the Opposition have acknowledged that point. I think it\u2019s important to Michael Wood that we don\u2019t overstate what has happened here to the extent of inferring that he did act with personal gain but he did not act appropriately in respect of his conflicts of interest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EFinal thing I would say is that I\u2019ve taken over the transport portfolio, and I\u2019ve already had quite a large number of meetings with senior people involved in the quite complex structures that we have around transport, and, without fail, all of them have noted to me that they take no pleasure in this because they have found him a competent and hard-working Minister, as the Prime Minister has said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EBut, that said, that doesn\u2019t excuse the events that brought this to a head and led to proffering his resignation in the light that his position had become untenable. And with those remarks I will take my seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022337abe7d8e664c448998238cc3dd7c13\u0022\u003EWater Services Entities Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c8b417ced7c643f1b852a4c2a3c3fbb9\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002267c4d43971db4799bcb7359a73a97e22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267c4d43971db4799bcb7359a73a97e22\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229e520a307f94afcacfb1029d837f1f8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022772d3b7687bf497cb2eaef9a8ed6ac89\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Governance and Administration Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 27 July 2023 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and 196.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to bring the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill to the House. The bill addresses and incorporates this Government\u2019s decisions to refocus the water services reforms. It makes important changes to the Water Services Entities Act 2022 that reflect the feedback and concerns I have heard from communities and throughout my engagement with the local government sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is facing a bill of up to $185 billion that councils themselves have said they can\u2019t deal with alone. Water is a fundamental resource that sustains life, supports economic growth, and contributes to the overall quality of life for all New Zealanders. However, we cannot continue to overlook the significant issues our water services are faced with, including ageing infrastructure and the need for greater investment. The damage we have seen from severe weather events is a stark reminder that the resilience of our water system will continue to be tested. It is our responsibility to address these challenges head on and provide a robust framework that will ensure safe, affordable, and reliable drinking-water services for generations to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe Water Services Entities Amendment Bill aims to achieve these outcomes. Firstly, it will strengthen local voice in the delivery of water services by establishing 10 entities based on regional boundaries, allowing each entity to be able to address and respond to localised issues. This ensures guaranteed territorial authority representation from each council in the entity\u2019s regional representative group. This will continue to be met with an equal number of mana whenua representatives. The bill also introduces a new mechanism for communities to express their views on the priorities for water services in the area. Local persons who have an interest in a water body in their entity will be able to present unique community priority statements to the entity\u2019s regional representative group. Priority statements will be a valuable source of income for entities when setting their strategic direction, in addition to making decisions about infrastructure investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESecondly, the bill provides flexibility for the entities to take advantage of economies of scale by setting out a process for entities to merge voluntarily, and proposes shared services arrangements. The 10-entity model of reform does see a reduction in scale efficiencies, compared with a four-entity model. However, the cost per household will still remain lower than under the status quo system. A voluntary, locally led process will enable entities to merge if the regional representative group determines it is the right decision for the communities within the service area. This recognises that, in time, councils and communities in higher-cost regions may wish to see the benefits of further amalgamation in terms of greater investment, increased efficiencies and service standards, and lower charges. Similarly, enabling shared service arrangements between water services entities allows for a reduction in duplications of core services, provides for consistency of service provision, and brings down the overall cost of the arrangements. Efficiency gains are needed to keep water services affordable to consumers as entities take on more debt to upgrade and better provide these services. If scale efficiencies cannot be realised, the geographic communities most at risk of cost increases will be those in rural and provincial areas with relatively small and geographically dispersed populations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThirdly, the bill has entity-financing backstop arrangements and enables the establishment of a dedicated Water Services Entities Funding Agency, which, if required, would operate on a similar basis to the Local Government Funding Agency by pooling risk and achieving scale and market access benefits for entities. We want to ensure that all water services entities, large and small, have a range of funding opportunities and mechanisms needed to support the upgrade and maintenance of our water systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ETo action all these changes, the bill provides for a longer window for establishment of the entities, staggered between 1 July 2024 and 1 July 2026. The Northland and Auckland Water Services Entity, entity A, will be established first on 1 July 2024. The configuration of entity A\u2019s boundaries do not change as a result of this bill, and it\u2019s readiness to go live next year reflects that there is a significant amount of preparatory work, to support establishment, already completed and under way. Entity A will provide a useful model for the rest of the entities, as well as learning opportunities for continuous improvement as other entities are established. Councils will continue to have responsibility for water service delivery in their service areas until the establishment of the entity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the recent period of uncertainty for many councils, who are in the process of preparing their 2024-34 long-term plans. I understand the process for local government planning cycles is extensive and requires a long lead-in time. The decision to provide flexibility for establishment dates will mean that councils will have to include the provision of water services for up to a further two years in their long-term plans. This bill provides certainty for councils for the process of doing this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIn the process of considering changes to the water reforms, we considered many options, including alternatives put forward by Opposition parties. We considered those in good faith, but they did not stack up. There is a clear case for reform when we compare the financial aspects with the status quo. Councils will struggle to meet the costs required under the current 60:40 arrangement for Crown financial support following a disaster, and many will require ongoing support. This highlights the importance of having water service entities with the balance sheet capacity to better absorb these sorts of shocks, as well as entities that diversify natural risk hazards across multiple territorial authorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe Water Services Legislation Bill and Water Services Economic Efficiency and Consumer Protection Bill have been reported back to the House with constructive amendments to improve the legislation. Together with this final amendment bill, the legislative framework for the reforms will be complete. I\u2019m proud to be part of a Government that is committed to ensuring the provision of safe and reliable drinking water at a price ratepayers can afford. I believe the reforms will improve our communities by tackling the ongoing threats to housing, health, and climate change. Every community should have access to safe, clean, and affordable water. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226a2c6a148af2454182a67e9a0c598b35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a2c6a148af2454182a67e9a0c598b35\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb819ffb09f04f4995e0a8c62be1805c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb819ffb09f04f4995e0a8c62be1805c\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak on the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill at its first reading. A reminder for those watching this conversation: this bill reflects the fourth bill in a long line of reforms undertaken by this Government in regards to three waters\u2014a reform programme that has been broken from the start\u2014and following the announcement of National\u2019s \u201CLocal Water Done Well\u201D policy on 25 February, the Government subsequently made an announcement of their reset on 13 April, which forms the basis for these significant changes. This Government has been working on this three waters reform programme for a very long time. Isn\u2019t it ironic that, following the release of the Opposition\u2019s policy on how to deal with water in this country, the Government reflects on their model and makes such significant changes!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe concept that we heard from the first three bills from this Government reflected the fact that only a four-entity model would be the model that would deliver the outcomes required under Labour\u2019s three waters reform. However, subsequently to that, they have now decided to throw that up in the air and move to 10 entities\u2014a model which is significantly different to the reform programme which they said was the only option in order to achieve the benefits that they were desiring. This goes to the heart of a Government that is continually backpedalling on a piece of reform that has significant implications for all New Zealanders, not only for today but going forward for decades to come. The Minister, the Hon Kieran McAnulty, has introduced huge changes, including the establishment, also, of a new funding body, on the fly, and is expecting to pass them in a shortened report-back process, reinforcing the sloppy nature in which this law, and these laws that have been passed already, has become quite accustomed to under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EYet, despite all of this process and all of the opposition across this country, Labour simply does not get it, because they never bothered to listen to the feedback that was provided by the majority of New Zealanders across this country. The changes that this bill will bring into account are not only in regards to increasing the number of entities from four to 10 but also look to kick for touch the implementation date of this Government\u2019s reform by two years. This in itself is an indication that the Government are not confident in their own legislation and their own reform. Two more years of chaotic uncertainty will result, and the ones that will pay the price of this extension and kicking for touch of reform that is required in order to improve infrastructure of water in this country will fall on our local communities. The pressure will also fall on our local government entities, which are already under significant pressure and strain because of the chaotic nature of this three waters reform. Staff turnover is considerable. Staff are looking for other opportunities. They are not confident that this Government\u2019s reform programme will deliver the improvements needed for this country. There have been multiple opportunities, as we traverse this journey, where the Government could have taken on board feedback, listened to our local communities, and made the changes necessary that could have avoided where we are today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe Government has also included, in regards to this amendment bill, changes in relation to Te Mana o te Wai statements. One will remember the conversations that were had in regards to these statements, which, of course, are only able to be prepared and input into by members of mana whenua, in regards to three waters infrastructure that crosses over land and, in particular, private land. The feedback on other legislation that has been tabled, in regards to this bill on the Table, has said that that is not right, that is not fair, and that is not appropriate\u2014that only one group has the ability to input into those statements. So, as a result of that feedback, the Minister has decided, in his wisdom, instead of modifying the Te Mana o te Wai statement process and allowing all stakeholders to have a voice, to be able to input into those statements\u2014all New Zealanders\u2014he has instead added a new statement, called a community priority statement. And, as is often the case, what it says on the tin is not what is inside the tin. When you have to add the words \u201Cpriority statement\u201D to the title, it gives you a little bit of a sign of what will follow!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWhen you dig into the legislation and you look at the wording in regards to these new community priority statements for water services, you see, under new section 145C, inserted by clause 16 of the bill, where it articulates what regional representatives groups must or may do in response to these statements, subsection (3) says \u201CThe group may consider\u201D\u2014may consider\u2014\u201Cthe statement in preparing, issuing, or reviewing the group\u2019s statement of strategic and performance expectations\u201D. Subsection (4): \u201CThe group may consider the statement as part of any comments [in regards to these entities]\u201D. The key point of difference in regards to this is that, when you look at the wording in the legislation under section 131, which refers to Te Mana o te Wai statements, regional representative groups must take into account the feedback within those statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThere is a significant difference between the words \u201Cmust\u201D and \u201Cmay\u201D, and when you try and prioritise in a hierarchy those two words, it is very clear that the community priority statements are second class in regards to the hierarchy that they sit in in relation to Te Mana o te Wai statements. What does that say in regards to all members of our communities\u2019 being able to input into the process to ensure that water infrastructure is appropriate for our communities? Well, I will leave that for New Zealanders to assess for themselves, but the Minister has had ample opportunity to reflect and improve these statements, and the opportunity has not been taken. Actually, some will assess that the situation has been made worse\u2014more complex than what the current state of play is at the moment. The select committee process, which, it has already been articulated, will have a shortened report-back date, will not allow and provide adequate review time or public consultation in regards to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI, lastly, want to refer to a new aspect in this bill, which is in regards to establishing a water services funding agency. One would expect, after the many years of planning and review of this legislation, that we wouldn\u2019t at this late stage, on 22 June, be introducing a new funding mechanism in regards to enabling this reform programme. This has been made up on the hoof and reinforces legislation which continues to be destined for failure. National opposes this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ec5a0eba11c40a5a83e317b0d59eb05\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022afed03c4ad7b4305bb98b11eedc6bcf0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u00228d1382ead7d2445c90c72fd25106d5aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d1382ead7d2445c90c72fd25106d5aa\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to make a personal explanation to correct an answer to a supplementary question that I gave today in answer to oral question No. 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224782bc2bcca04e61b1697bf32fef9529\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245cae054facd4aea8f02dcb38ffa5773\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS\u003C/span\u003E: I advised the House that on 8 June the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki told my adviser who then told me about an incident in an Oranga Tamariki residence. This is accurate for the incident I was notified of on 16 June but not 8 June. I\u2019d therefore like to correct the statement and advise the House that on 8 June my office and I were informed of this incident at the same time, directly by the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki, in a joint phone call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022628ef089fc614fdaa7b7c87c18a9d2ec\u0022\u003EWater Services Entities Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5d2370851af4313bfad88b2820fe0c5\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000326\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022 data-id=\u00225716642455654d728eea3cbd955df3ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225716642455654d728eea3cbd955df3ac\u0022\u003EHon Dr DAVID CLARK (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E In 2017, together with the Hon David Parker, I received the second Havelock North report, which had been commissioned by the previous Government\u2014I believe, by the Hon Chris Finlayson. It told a story of tens of thousands of New Zealanders getting sick every year from preventable causes, indeed through being exposed to drinking water that was not up to scratch. One of the things that I found most shocking when I read that report was actually getting into the appendices, where there were lists of headlines from exposure cases to poor drinking water that had occurred during the period in which the report was written. This is a very real issue that we have in New Zealand, and this Government\u2019s reform programme is one that I am proud to support. We\u2019re facing a $185 billion bill to bring our water services infrastructure up to the required standards, and achieving scale is an important part of that reform programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EThis bill is a bill which shows the Government has listened to communities, as a result having 10 entities rather than four. It will mean that every council will also have representation in the entities\u2019 regional groups, and voices will be heard. So it strikes a balance, making sure that local voices are heard and also achieves scale sufficient to make sure that the bills that will otherwise occur are at a local level not so extreme as they would be under, for example, the proposal that the National Party has brought forward. Moving from 67 different water service providers to just 10 means the new entities will have the increased size necessary to improve access to funding and management of water services to secure the benefits of reform for New Zealanders, including affordability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI do want to say that this listening is important. That is something that the Hon Kieran McAnulty has led, and I find it shocking when the other side of the House argues that we should maintain the status quo. They argue against this bill, and their approach really, in my view, has absolutely no credibility. It is the status quo. There is no council in the country that thinks the status quo is a good idea. National seem content to leave New Zealanders facing rates rises in the thousands while a 67-entity structure is incapacitated by debt, and that is something that no New Zealander wants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225bbd9f26-fdb0-4b85-a836-0fc46e1bba3c\u0022\u003EI think ultimately\u2014[Interruption] You can hear them; they are so out of touch. They\u2019re like a bunch of middle-aged bald men driving around in their wives\u2019 Government-subsidised Teslas, looking for an opportunity to reintroduce charges for contraception. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022c19ccef1d3ff4a98bdf2df97daeac8a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c19ccef1d3ff4a98bdf2df97daeac8a8\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Well, that was a manful attempt by David Clark, but his heart wasn\u2019t in it, and I think we can all agree on that. Let\u2019s be really clear what\u2019s happened here: this is the back-down bill. This is the bill in which the Government tries to pretend that this is what they wanted to do all along, and that they\u2019ve listened to communities and that now it\u2019s time to get with the programme and change around things. But this is a back down because they have faced a wave of hostility from around the country over the last two years as the three-waters roadshow has rumbled on, and they have finally figured out that the public aren\u2019t buying what Labour is selling. This is the back-down bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe were told for two years by the Hon Nanaia Mahuta and then Kieran McAnulty that it had to be four entities, we had to legislate all the councils to have their assets confiscated, and we had to set up the big four mega-entities\u2014\u201CThere is no other way\u2014there is no alternative.\u201D I even think the Minister might have uttered those words in the House: \u201CTINA\u201D\u2014There Is No Alternative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe were told over and over again\u2014and the Government ran these ridiculously contemptuous ads on TV to tell local government that they knew what was best for them\u2014that there was nothing that could be done: \u201CWe had to do three waters.\u201D Local government said, \u201CWell, actually, how about you let us figure it out at a regional level? We\u2019re up for reform, we\u2019re up for the rationalisation, but we just want to keep our own assets and sort it out.\u201D The Government said, \u201CNo, no, we know best. We can\u2019t do that. You\u2019ve got to do the big four.\u201D Then they said, \u201CWell, hang on a minute. How about you let us figure it out and you let us sort out the arrangements so that we can get some balance sheet separation, and how about you just remove the mandatory co-governance provisions?\u201D, and the Government said, \u201CNo, no, we know best. We\u2019ve got to do it.\u201D Well, now it turns out, actually, they\u2019re prepared to\u2014as David Clark said, \u201COh, we\u2019ve listened\u2014we\u2019ve listened.\u201D\u2014and they\u2019ve changed their mind. Well, good on them for listening; it just took two years. But, anyway, we welcome that. This is the back-down bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ENow, David Clark says that the debate is, essentially, between Labour\u2019s new proposal, the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill, which amends legislation we passed only a few months ago\u2014\u201CWater Services 2.0\u201D\u2014and the status quo. Well, that\u2019s not the debate. No one in this Parliament thinks that\u2019s the debate, other than David Clark, and no one in the public thinks that, because everyone acknowledges the need for reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo what do we agree on in Parliament? Well, we agree on balance sheet separation so that you can get debt finance to fund the long-lived assets, because councils can\u2019t do it by themselves. That\u2019s sensible. That is across both models proposed by National and by Labour. Do we agree on economic regulation? Yes, we do. These are, essentially, natural monopolies. They\u2019re actually, in some ways, not dissimilar or any different to local electricity lines companies. They\u2019re natural monopolies that require economic regulation to get a rate of return. So we agree around that. We agree on water-quality regulation. In fact, the starting point for water quality started under the last National Government. So we agree on all of that. We agree on regional groupings, and we obviously don\u2019t like the big four entities that the Government started with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWhat do we disagree on? There are a number of elements, and that\u2019s ultimately why we can\u2019t support this legislation. We disagree on a few things. The first is that the legislation confiscates the assets of the councils and says, basically, \u201CWe know best as central government. We\u2019re going to do it for you.\u201D Yes, the Government has moved away from the big four model and moved to a regionalised model, but it\u2019s still confiscation. It\u2019s still legislation that takes the assets and says that the Government knows best. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EOur preferred solution on this side of the House is to allow local councils and local communities to sort out how they\u2019re going to rearrange themselves so that they can meet the Government\u2019s water reform objectives and make sure that we can get improvements in water quality and get that economic regulation in place. That will require allowing local councils and local communities to have a go at working it out for themselves. It\u2019s not to say that central government doesn\u2019t or shouldn\u2019t have the back-stop powers in order to step in and make sure that we get the reforms that make sense, but let\u2019s give them a go at it in the first instance. The Government has completely disregarded all of that. So, yep, we\u2019ve got a more regionalised grouping, but the Government\u2019s choosing the regionalised groupings for them. That, I think, is what many people in local councils and local communities find very offensive. That\u2019s the first thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe second thing is: co-governance that is baked into the reforms. There\u2019s no change to that through this amendment bill. There\u2019s no change to the existing Act that is now in law. So the regional representative groups, the representative boards: co-governance is baked in there. We regard that as wrong. We will get rid of that after 14 October if we have a mandate to do so. We regard that as wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThirdly, Te Mana o te Wai statements. This has flown under the radar. The co-governance stuff gets much of the attention, but, actually, it\u2019s Te Mana o te Wai statements in the Act now that I think many people are waking up to. Only mana whenua can issue them\u2014only mana whenua can issue them\u2014and the water services entities must reply to them. So that actually creates an interesting situation. Only one group can issue them. They\u2019re not mandatory, but I just went and looked it up before: the Act says they can issue them for mana whenua of particular rohe, and the water services entities must respond. The scope of those statements is quite breathtaking, or at least potentially quite breathtaking, in its enormity. I think many people are waking up to what that does, and I think people think it is wrong, and we agree. It\u2019s not to say that M\u0101ori do not have rights and interests in water\u2014they do. That actually is accepted\u2014oh, I see Grant Robertson is muttering, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dcda664c5884fe79f42b10c7160ae00\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no; I\u2019m just recording the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f95876cc8db437395c9ccc540960793\u0022\u003ECHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ve said this many times. I said it in the first, second, and third readings of the last bill\u2014the one that you said was the real solution, until this one turned up. They do, and actually, that goes across the Parliament, because when National was in Government, the Crown accepted through the Mighty River Power litigation in the Supreme Court\u2014which led to the mixed-ownership model solution for the energy companies that the Crown owned\u2014that M\u0101ori did have rights and interests in water. Now, the question is how you give effect to that; that\u2019s actually the debate. The debate is not: do M\u0101ori have rights and interests in water? The debate is about how you give effect to that. Our view on this side of the House is that allowing only mana whenua to issue Te Mana o te Wai statements is wrong, and it\u2019s not an appropriate way of giving effect to those rights and interests; nor, by the way, is the co-governance provisions that are baked into the legislation. So you do not have to go as far as the Government is going with its proposals in order to give effect to the Crown\u2019s obligations that are shared across the Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo, to return to where I started, this bill is a back down. There\u2019s no real way of sugar-coating it. It\u2019s been a back down, I think, forced by local communities around the country. It has been quite striking to me when you drive round the place, the \u201CStop Three Waters\u201D signs that you see all over the place, and who would have thought that what is actually quite a technocratic issue\u2014at the end of the day, we are talking about pipes and stormwater and clean, fresh drinking water. I mean, no one gets worked up about electricity lines\u2014well, maybe we used to back in the 1990s, but no one, really, gets worked up now. It\u2019s been interesting, the reaction, and for that, to be honest, I do blame the Government, because from the start this has been mis-sold, the local government sector has been treated with a degree of contempt by many in central government, and there\u2019s been a backlash to that; there\u2019s been a reaction to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo do we need water reform? Yes, we do. Do we need confiscation? No, we don\u2019t. Do we need mandatory co-governance? No, we don\u2019t. Do we need Te Mana o te Wai statements in the way they are formed? No, we don\u2019t. Do we need balance sheet separation? Yes. Do we need economic regulation? Yes. Do we need water-quality regulation? Yes. Do we need more regionalised solutions that we let local communities come up with? Absolutely, yes we do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EActually, there\u2019s not so much between the parties on this, and there\u2019s still time\u2014there\u2019s still time\u2014for Labour to come to the party of genuine local water reform. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002237da67d767524e24acf5af038b7d40b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237da67d767524e24acf5af038b7d40b0\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. That was the longest definition of a Clayton\u2019s policy\u2014a policy that\u2019s not actually a policy. I\u2019ve never heard so much hot air put out into the debating chamber in the explanation of a policy that is, essentially, a defence of the status quo. Christopher Bishop claims to support all the underlying imperatives, the policy drivers of reform, but actually National doesn\u2019t want to do anything. I\u2019m sorry; I should be surprised by this, but it\u2019s happened too many times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to credit Kieran McAnulty for the refocus that this bill actually brings to the policy. Kieran McAnulty listened to what the public was saying. He listened to what local government was saying. This bill contains some important changes: 10 entities instead of four; longer lead times for all the entities except for Auckland; regional representative groups that will now be able to accommodate every district council in New Zealand; and a locally led, streamlined merger process. This bill contains some important tweaks to the affordable water reforms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to say, as an Auckland MP, that these reforms cannot come fast enough. Where I live in West Auckland, every time there\u2019s heavy rainfall, raw sewage is pumped into Te\u00A0Wai-o-Pareira, the waterway that runs right through the middle of my electorate. Why? Because for decades successive councils simply haven\u2019t invested in enough waste-water infrastructure. Why did thousands of people in Auckland get hit by catastrophic floods on the anniversary weekend earlier this year? Because our stormwater completely failed because successive councils have not invested adequately in stormwater infrastructure or the designs and the modern approaches to stormwater management that are necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EUnder this bill, we will see specialist water entities with more robust balance sheets and the ability to borrow nearly three times as much to make the investments that are necessary. There\u2019s a strong legislative mandate to deal with these issues\u2014all three of the waters\u2014and with a regulator looking over their shoulder to keep them honest and keep them focused on the job at hand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022676b8aca981a4cd58316eefd26430f8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022676b8aca981a4cd58316eefd26430f8a\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Look, ACT has played a constructive role in terms of the water services reforms. I remember back to June 2020 when I was first invited to a briefing from Department of Internal Affairs officials, who outlined for me\u2014as an ACT candidate, not an MP, but trusted with the information and insights from officials\u2014what the problem was with three waters infrastructure. The officials told David Seymour and I that there is a problem: around New Zealand, there\u2019s an infrastructure deficit of potentially $100 billion\u2014apparently, now, it\u2019s $180 billion; that may have something to do with inflation under Labour\u2014and they said, \u201CLook, we need to fix this infrastructure. Councils haven\u2019t fulfilled their obligations and there\u2019s not enough money to do it, and the current regulatory framework doesn\u2019t make it likely that this work\u2019s going to be done any time soon, and in the meantime, we\u2019ve got waste-water overflows and there\u2019s not enough infrastructure to allow for housing growth and housing densification in our cities.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAs a civil engineer, I thought, \u201CThat\u2019s a very reasonable and sensible problem definition.\u201D Then they introduced the Water Services Entities Bill, now an Act, which set up four mega entities and established an incredibly complex co-governance arrangement which allocates 50 percent of the seats\u2014essentially creating water parliaments\u2014on the regional representative groups to iwi M\u0101ori representatives, which are complemented by 50 percent of the seats on these enormous boards, potentially being people from local government, but we don\u2019t really know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIf the problem was how do we find more money to fix infrastructure, to repair and maintain the infrastructure we\u2019ve already got, and to provide for growth in our cities\u2014whether it\u2019s green fields, subdivisions, places where young families might want to live, where there\u2019s enough room for the kids to ride their bikes around the backyard or to put a trampoline; or whether people want to live in higher density cities, where you need actually water infrastructure, stormwater, waste water, and drinking water to be delivered before you can connect new homes to the systems. So that\u2019s the problem to solve. We need to find the money and we need some regulatory mechanism to force asset owners of water infrastructure to actually deliver the infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe Water Services Entities Act, passed in November 2022, failed that test. It introduced complex, expensive co-governance into water infrastructure management. It introduced concepts like Te Mana o te Wai and requires these water services entities to give effect to Te Mana o te Wai statements. Now, while it\u2019s true that New Zealanders of all cultures understand how important clean drinking water is for communities and how important it is that waste-water treatment plants and the networks operate in a way that doesn\u2019t result in regular discharges of waste water into our special places, it\u2019s not true that only one ethnic group in New Zealand has special insights into how water should be managed\u2014how water resources should be allocated. In fact, it\u2019s engineers and scientists and ecologists. Those are the people with those specialist skills who can tell us whether freshwater wetlands or coastal environments are in fact suitable for recreation or to get drinking water from. There are no special insights that those scientists or engineers have because of their ethnicity, but that is what this Government has proposed by including Te Mana o Te Wai statements as a requirement for water service entities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIt became clear late last year that the high-water mark for co-governance in this Government\u2019s divisive agenda\u2014when it came to allocating different rights to iwi M\u0101ori based on their ethnicity, when it came to infrastructure like water assets. The waka had gone a long way up the beach, but the tide had gone out. When Chris Hipkins said that policies were going on the policy bonfire and he was rethinking the three waters policy, I thought, \u201CWow, maybe they might have listened to all of those councils, all of those communities; all of those New Zealanders who signed ACT\u2019s petition saying, \u2018Stop the steal; we\u2019ll repeal three waters.\u2019\u2014maybe they\u2019ve listened?\u201D But no, they hadn\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhat Chris Hipkins did was announce that, instead of four mega water entities, four new chief executives, and four new bureaucracies, there\u2019s going to be 10. Only Labour could solve a problem of centralisation and red tape of its own making by adding even more bureaucrats and more red tape, hiring more office space and yet delaying the implementation of the legislation by two years so that waste-water overflows into places like Te Wai o Pareira / Henderson Creek\u2014where I live\u2014will continue for another two years or maybe another decade, while all of these things are worked out; and they won\u2019t be worked out by this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard today that the Minister responsible for the bill, the Hon Kieran McAnulty, intends that it be reported back from select committee by 27 July, and no doubt they will intend to have it pass through all stages under this 53rd Parliament. Well, we in ACT will do our best to prevent more bad legislation being rammed through the House, but actually, it\u2019s up to New Zealanders. They will get to vote on this legislation in October, and by 15 October we\u2019ll know whether they agree with the former Minister, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, that there is no alternative to co-governance. Well, now, if they agree with Kieran McAnulty that 10 massive border bureaucracies are better than four\u2014or maybe they won\u2019t agree and they\u2019ll agree with ACT, because what ACT says is that there is an alternative. If we want better water infrastructure, we should simply spend more money on water infrastructure. How about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWell, I went down to the West Coast of the South Island, and one of the mayors said, \u201CYou know, Simon, the reason we\u2019re going for three waters is because we think we\u2019ll get more money out of it, but what we really need to do is\u2014if only central government would share some of their revenue with us. Remember, we have hundreds of thousands of tourists come up and down the West Coast of the South Island every year. We don\u2019t get any revenue out of that. If only they\u2019d share a small amount of central government\u2019s revenue with us, we might be able to fund the delivery of better water infrastructure for some of our most deprived communities.\u201D How practical would that be? Central government sharing some of the revenue it takes from the regions with the regions that need it. Well, that\u2019s what ACT says. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWhat ACT says is that we should share 50 percent of the GST on all new builds, backed with local government, on the basis that 30-year infrastructure plans between central and local government identify where the infrastructure needs to be built and what the time frames are, and then local government is held to account to meet those time frames. We need to provide for growth by actually building infrastructure well in advance of when the houses come, and that will actually help with delivering service land: not just with water, but also with transport infrastructure. That means, whether they\u2019re for high-rise residential development in existing towns and cities, or whether they\u2019re greenfield suburbs where mums and dads want to be able to put a trampoline in the backyard for the kids, those sections and those land prices will become more affordable. That\u2019s what ACT\u2019s solutions for building New Zealand and conserving nature would deliver, and that is what New Zealanders will have the opportunity to vote for in October.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ESo ACT will not be supporting this bill; we will be opposing it. We will continue to be constructive, we will continue to offer alternatives, and we will continue to listen to New Zealanders, including councils, the engineers, the asset managers, all of those people in the regions and in our towns and cities who have said, \u201CSimon, there\u2019s a better way. Labour won\u2019t listen to us; thank you, Simon, thank you, ACT New Zealand, for listening. We look forward to seeing a change of Government in October 2023, with ACT at its centre.\u201D Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022 data-id=\u0022622f5ac072744326a8e7b5d2bdcdbc3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022622f5ac072744326a8e7b5d2bdcdbc3a\u0022\u003EHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. I cannot understand why the party that has just spoken, the ACT Party, is so opposed to m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori being recognised in decisions about water, why it is so anti - Te Tiriti o Waitangi being implemented, and why it stokes up concern about this when we want decisions that are fully informed by all of Aotearoa New Zealand, all aspects of our community, and we want to implement Te Tiriti. So that is a lot of nonsense that Mr Court has spoken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt is strange, though, to be speaking on the first reading of the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill when we haven\u2019t had the second reading of the Water Services Legislation Bill, which has had so many of the issues around the establishment and the transfer of responsibilities of the water services entity, and when this bill makes so many changes, as the Water Services Legislation Bill does, to the original Act that the Parliament passed last year, the Water Services Entities Act. It is really disappointing that the Finance and Expenditure Committee was not given the opportunity to consider this bill and the changes that are proposed here in association with the Water Services Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also peculiar that this bill is going to the Governance and Administration Committee when it has been members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee who have heard all of the submissions on the water services legislation and understand the complexity of the issues involved. Nor does the Green Party support\u2014though we will be supporting the bill, and I\u2019ll explain why in a moment\u2014the truncated select committee process and the report back of 27 July, because of the quite major changes that this bill makes to the three waters reforms, particularly with things like the establishment of the Water Services Entities Funding Agency, and we\u2019re really pleased that the Government has moved to do that, and with the ability, potentially, that entities will have to get access to loan finance at a more competitive rate. The bill makes it very clear that there\u2019s no Crown liability and support, sort of as a backstop, for that entity unless the Minister of Finance has made decisions under the Public Finance Act, but that does mean that Government is recognising the other ways of doing investment, rather than just assuming that all of the infrastructure deficit can be funded purely by debt finance through the entities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is supporting the bill primarily because of the move to 10 regional entities which are much closer to local communities than the big four mega-entities. That was something that the Green Party supported and promoted with the former Minister, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta\u2014and we acknowledge all of the mahi that that Minister has done on this reform project. We also support the recognition that there can be some mergers between the entities, that it is more of a voluntary process there, though we do note that the Minister still has quite substantial powers of direction in this bill to direct the entities, if they are not performing adequately, to require shared services, to direct them to develop expertise and capability and to ensure business continuity. So there are still significant ministerial intervention powers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EWe remain concerned about the huge degree of corporatisation in these reforms and the limited accountability that the entities have back to their communities. There is an attempt in this bill, as a previous speaker noted, in relation to the community priority statements for water services. I have a major concern, which I hope the select committee will address, with the overlap between this bill and the Natural and Built Environment Bill and the Spatial Planning Bill. Under the Resource Management Act (RMA) reform, communities can provide statements of community outcomes, statements of regional and environmental outcomes, to the regional planning committees for incorporation into regional spatial strategies and regional plans. Those statements of community outcome\u2014surely the water services entities could have regard to those rather than having a separate process under this bill where they identify the issues in relation to particular water bodies. It is the regional councils and now the regional planning committees which have got responsibility for that water management. This seems quite a duplication\u2014the potential for quite a lot of mix and overlapping work here\u2014that\u2019s not really necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe other issue here is that, with the new RMA reform legislation, the Natural and Built Environment Bill already will be requiring water services entities to have regard to the regional spatial strategy, so you get that integration between infrastructure and what the water services entities are doing with their asset management plans. So, when you\u2019ve got that connection there, I\u2019m still to be convinced that these new community priority statements are not just \u201Cmake work\u201D and that they will actually have any weight and be of any value.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe other issues in the legislation that we\u2019ll be commenting on when we talk about the principal bill include our continuing concern about the transfer of stormwater and the fact that that is completely untested internationally, but we do wish that the Government had remitted this to the Finance and Expenditure Committee and that there was more time to integrate this bill with the water services legislation changes, because this is at risk of becoming a patchwork quilt of ad hoc changes. While patchwork quilts may have character, they can also have significant holes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003EThe complexity of the legislation requires a good process and, as the Finance and Expenditure Committee reported back on the Water Services Legislation Bill, there was concern that for whatever reason officials had directed Parliamentary Counsel without always coming back to the select committee to ensure that the Parliamentary Counsel was making changes to the bill on the recommendation of the select committee. This truncated process, with only just over a month, means there is potential, with the complexity of the bill, for other issues to arise in terms of real parliamentary scrutiny and limited chance for public submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e122e0e6-61c6-4d17-9a79-6ad2ac7d127e\u0022\u003ESo, while we support the bill, we have a number of concerns about it and hope that submitters will have some time at least to comment on it and to raise those issues with the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022 data-id=\u00225ab26a293c4e4c9e9ea8ba072d567472\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ab26a293c4e4c9e9ea8ba072d567472\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much. It\u2019s my pleasure to speak and take a call on the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill. I just want to thank the Hon Kieran McAnulty for bringing this important piece of legislation to the House, because this bill is all about improving infrastructure across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003EEspecially after decades-long underfunding, our water network is in a poor condition, and Dr David Clark, in his contribution, raised the point around people getting sick as a result of poor water quality. In 2020\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9cfbab74b2b433da107685a9666414b\u0022\u003EMatt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Green sludge coming out of the taps\u2014remember?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb88854b8f59480b9cd9a0eeb40d4009\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I see the member for Waimakariri there has woken up. While he\u2019s been sleeping in the Waimakariri electorate, I\u2019ve been mowing his grass like a Masport lawnmower, picking up all his constituency work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022acf78260-1a45-46a5-bc98-1a34a13ec1d1\u0022\u003EI just want to raise the point that I live in Woodend, which is in Waimakariri\u2014just for the member of Waimakariri there, it\u2019s just north of Kaiapoi. In my home of Waimakariri, rates would have gone up by as much as $4,900 by the year 2054\u2014$4,900. But, under this new system, we will save $2,470, so it\u2019s going to be half the cost if we go through with these reforms. This is a fantastic bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u00229ad49c135e8a4e73aed8e9eaab104208\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ad49c135e8a4e73aed8e9eaab104208\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Sam Uffindell\u2014a five-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u002278aaa8ff32364c88a1972c2f603f9f4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278aaa8ff32364c88a1972c2f603f9f4f\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. That was good; I wish the member Dan Rosewarne had have kept talking. I was hoping he was going to use up all 10 minutes, but he almost got to two. But that was all right; it was an enjoyable contribution nevertheless. I\u2019d better get straight to the point on this one: I oppose this bill, but I will be using up my full call on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EThis is a back-down bill, let\u2019s be perfectly honest. It is a back-down bill. I had some friends who were in New Zealand recently and they were driving around and they said, \u201CWhat are all of these Stop Three Waters signs?\u201D Evidently one of them was on my gate! But, when you drive around Tauranga and the Bay of Plenty, there are a lot of them. It\u2019s such a strange thing for this Government to hang its hat on, and it could well have been the thing that started the demise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cf229a9-8722-46b2-a37e-b528e075be7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278769460845146f6b3f7015a8d8048b6\u0022\u003EAngela Roberts\u003C/span\u003E: Affordable water?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022069e90d81d634436bf7c97b890818ddc\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: And the horrible water we hear being called out. I saw the ads, too, where you turn on the tap and all of the green sludge comes out. We don\u2019t have that problem in Tauranga; we don\u2019t have it at all, because our councils have invested in their water services over the decades. We have some of the best water, not to mention the best sunshine and the best beaches in New Zealand. But we don\u2019t need this; we do not need central government coming in and telling us how to manage our water. It\u2019s not just Tauranga that doesn\u2019t need it; there are many councils around New Zealand that don\u2019t need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EI go back to the start of where this all began with three waters\u2014and I\u2019ll keep calling this three waters, because that\u2019s what it is. It\u2019s just had another lick of paint and a new name, but it\u2019s still three waters, and it will still be repealed as three waters and replaced with Simon Watts\u2019 wonderful Local Water Done Well. I look forward to the repealing and replacement of three waters. Now, we saw what happened when this came in. It is strange; I remember talking on this at the end of last year, and I came in here with \u201CWattsy\u201D and we were there talking away, trying to hold this up\u2014and he did a magnificent job holding it up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ede9ae601e6c445aa8648d2e1934beab\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! In this House, we refer to members by their full name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6515c11a0da4da7a79efb7e90fd4dda\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Madam Speaker. Getting a bit too laissez-faire on a Thursday afternoon. I\u2019ll add an element of professionalism for the last three minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EIt seems that here we are again talking about a bill that was only passed recently. Here we are amending it. Let\u2019s talk about what\u2019s wrong with this bill. Well, there\u2019s no local accountability, because the local people don\u2019t have an opportunity to call out people if they are not doing a good job managing their water services. It takes local assets off local councils, and make no mistake about it: it takes their assets. It upholds co-governance, and those are the two extremely contentious parts of this: that it takes local assets off local councils\u2014and this amendment hasn\u2019t addressed that\u2014and it further continues very divisive co-governance arrangements that we have seen under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EThe Te Mana o te Wai statements were talked about quite well by Chris Bishop when he came in here. I\u2019m sure Simon Watts talked about it well, but I came in during Chris\u2019 speech\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe303b12eca84a9dbcbb4459aa0e8a5e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022764be4abbe06488fb09d8a8c6b97e0b7\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, again. Thursday afternoon. I will not get it wrong in the last minute and a half. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EWhy is it that only mana whenua can make statements on this? I find that that is the wrong way to be going about it. We are all New Zealanders in this House, in this country, and we should all be treated with the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else. To say that one set of people, based on their ethnicity, can make Te Mana o te Wai statements and other New Zealanders can\u2019t, I think, is a pretty poor direction for us to be heading as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve heard the other side of the House piping up about all of the financial benefits that this is going to reap. They looked at what they\u2019d done over in Scotland and they got a bit of modelling and they said, \u201COh, this is going to save councils thousands of dollars and save ratepayers thousands of dollars.\u201D I mean, what a load of rubbish. When you\u2019ve looked at people that have come in and done peer-reviewed studies on that, that\u2019s not what they have found\u2014that\u2019s not what they have found.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ESo this Government has used fear. They\u2019ve used fear of green sludge coming out of taps and they\u2019ve used fear of incredible rate hikes that are completely out of touch with reality to try and ram this through. We had the Greens member Eugenie Sage before. She has left the Chamber, but she tried to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb88e197519c45dc9336bdbb50a566a4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! You nearly made it. But the member will not refer to the absence of a member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc8443e452c04e8fbf5115af15a8a9dd\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I won\u2019t be posting this one online. What am I saying? There was an attempt by the Green Party at a 60 percent entrenchment. This Government went along with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274db69f4f39d432cb5ead6f9220088c9\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: When\u2019s your professionalism coming in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f12f08307e6455b8728bab83ebcf594\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we will see plenty of professionalism come October, and we will repeal and replace three waters\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022710acdae7bfc43f3b509547815ce837b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022710acdae7bfc43f3b509547815ce837b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae8f1c1a92ed453b8ab2003145dcb37b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae8f1c1a92ed453b8ab2003145dcb37b\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E We have heard it all today from the National Party. First of all, we\u2019ve had Chris Bishop stand up and say, \u201CThe National Party supports reform and believes in reform.\u201D Then, we\u2019ve had Sam Uffindell stand up and say\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Ca strange thing to hang your hat on\u201D, and then talk about his community and why his community doesn\u2019t require reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThroughout this entire debate around water infrastructure over the past couple of years, the National Party have done two things: they have flip-flopped on their position, back and forth\u2014back and forth\u2014and then they have stoked misinformation and fear amongst our communities about what the reform programme is seeking to achieve. So I\u2019m going to talk about my community of Nelson, because my community of Nelson has done an excellent of job of investing in water services. But\u2014and I\u2019m going to say \u201Cbut\u201D\u2014a lot of that infrastructure was invested in a very, very long time ago. We saw the impact of that last year in the Nelson floods, where some of our infrastructure failed and continues to fail when we have heavy weather events. It\u2019s not to say that we haven\u2019t invested; we have. However, the cost of continuing to sweat that asset will be far too great for our community and for the people who come in the generations after us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWhat this bill seeks to address is one of the issues that was raised around the nature of the entities. We will be moving from four large entities down to 10 entities. One of the critical pieces of this reform is the need\u2014which is something that the National Party have not addressed\u2014for us to have balance sheet separation so that we can actually have a step removed from the councils, who are unable to invest. It\u2019s not that a lot of them haven\u2019t wanted to invest; it\u2019s that the system has not been set up in a way to enable them to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis bill continues our good work of reform to ensure that we do address the thing that we do need to hang our hat on, and that is that people in this country have died from drinking poor quality water. That is actually, fundamentally, what is at the heart of it: affordable water that is safe to drink and that supports our communities. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1c29ca672c44f9c8837daae61a71565\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1c29ca672c44f9c8837daae61a71565\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. It\u2019s been a pleasure to be involved in the process of listening to the other submissions, etc., and dealing with the other water entities bills on the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I\u2019m actually very pleased to see it move to another committee, as it\u2019s time we had a fresh set of eyes on this one. Share the love, I say! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThis is the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill, and it\u2019s actually really simple. It\u2019s a case of the Minister listening to the communities, taking into account the misgivings over the amount of entities, changing the number to 10 so that there can be more involvement by the local bodies, and making sure that that representation is the expectation. That\u2019s a really good thing because it\u2019s making sure that that balance is right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhen we had the floods in Auckland\u2014I live on a park, and the park is about 10 acres, and it is a zone where floods are supposed to come into the park. I\u2019ve lived there for about 29 years, and I have never seen that happen, but when I woke up that morning it was actually a proper lake, and there were people who came to the park to swim in that water. I really worried about what was going to happen next, because the sewage is not dealt with appropriately there, and so they were swimming in water that was really suspect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo this isn\u2019t just a problem for Hawke\u2019s Bay; this is a problem throughout our country, and it remains a problem for Auckland, despite having a much better system in Auckland than elsewhere. So the best of the model of water care comes across here to a water reform, which we do sorely need. I think that was conceded today by Chris Bishop, who actually accepted there needed to be change. Sometimes these changes are rough: there are misgivings; there\u2019s fear. Hopefully, this amendment means that people feel that they are actually more involved than they had felt, and it strikes the right balance. I commend the Minister for his efforts here and speaking to his community and coming back, and I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4ef9645a8dc4a08a1b3683fdbad1d6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4ef9645a8dc4a08a1b3683fdbad1d6e\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure on Thursday afternoon to rise on behalf of the National Party in opposition to the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill in its first reading. Not only do I rise on behalf of the National Party, which opposes this ideological bill, but I also rise on behalf of hard-working Waimakariri ratepayers, who, when they were asked for their feedback on whether the council should support three waters, voted overwhelmingly to oppose\u201495 percent of ratepayers who responded opposed the Government\u2019s three waters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo the Minister, in his first reading, can stand in the House and say it was in good faith that he brings this bill into the House, but, of course, he knows\u2014and the former Minister that held the responsibility for this work reform knows\u2014that, in the first days, councils were promised the ability to opt out. That\u2019s what they were promised, until Official Information Act documents revealed it was an all-in. So this bill doesn\u2019t come to the House in good faith; it comes to the House in bad blood. People have been misled. This is theft by stealth. No matter how you want to package it up and amend it, if it\u2019s still a dog, it\u2019s a dog. That\u2019s exactly what this bill is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ECan you believe it? Picture the Labour Party caucus this morning, right? They\u2019ve had a car crash of a week; in fact, probably several weeks. Morale is low and they\u2019re thinking about the day and some backbencher who hasn\u2019t read the Order Paper pipes up and says, \u201CWell, at least we don\u2019t have to talk about three waters anymore.\u201D Then the Leader of the House says, \u201CWhoops, we actually do. We\u2019ve got to swallow this dead rat again and again and again.\u201D And they think they\u2019ll quieten this down before 14 October! I\u2019m looking forward to getting on the hustings, because the public oppose this ideological approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EEven look at the legislative process they\u2019re going through. I mean, I presume, because the bill has been introduced in the House, that it can be under the Standing Orders, but who\u2019s ever heard of bringing a bill to the House that amends not one but two bills that haven\u2019t even been passed into law yet\u2014that are still going through the legislative process. No wonder they\u2019re called the \u201Ccoalition of chaos\u201D. It\u2019s more like a circus. We are here, six months into the year, in 2023, to amend an Act, the Water Services Entities Act, that was only passed in 2022. I mean, this is an absolute shambles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ETo be told by the Minister responsible that this is in good faith\u2014and then we had the audacity of the Hon David Clark standing up and with a straight face, and I hope we get that on the clip of Parliament TV, saying the statement \u201CListening is important.\u201D They\u2019ve spent the whole time blinkered. They know best, Wellington knows best, Labour knows best, and here they are trying to say they\u2019ve had an epiphany: listening is important. Look, that\u2019s not a flippant comment, because it actually has impacts on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ERead the regulatory impact statement. It outlines\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CConstraints on timing have limited the amount of research and analysis in the development of options. As a result of these constraints, officials are continuing to work with Ministers and the sector on the impacts of the 10\u00A0entity model on transitional arrangements for local government during the establishment period.\u201D The former Minister who was responsible, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, said they\u2019d been working on this policy train for three, four, five years. Now we find ourselves in a position where we\u2019re passing a law that the officials haven\u2019t had time to explore the actions and the impacts and the analysis of, and this is what happens. These guys went into it blinkered. They knew best, and now, they\u2019re paying the price for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ll have to get up on the hustings over the next few weeks and defend this bill. Duncan Webb\u2019s sitting there\u2014the MP for Christchurch Central. He knows because his former campaign manager\u2014the left-leaning Mayor of Christchurch\u2014wrote a letter to the editor to the Christchurch Press, who said that, because of three waters, not only was he resigning his Labour membership, he would never vote for Labour again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220e7e8da2-a6a1-41bb-aeb0-a49be255a293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212c6ae299dcf4c99bf505c4c58d671ae\u0022\u003EHon Nanaia Mahuta\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b1c11774fd474aa1351b93bd0c14bb\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: And that\u2019s what it went\u2014rubbish, they say. This is how out of touch\u2014it\u2019s actually in black and white in the newspaper. In Canterbury, it went down like a cup of cold sick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003ESo you can dress it up about how you want to make good-faith amendments, but the reality is that this bill does not address the issues. Yes, you can broaden it out to a representative group that will represent and give their views on the issue. The issue was never about councils not having representation; the issue was that councils wanted ownership of their ratepayer assets\u2014that is the issue that they\u2019re overlooking. Yes, you can package it up. You\u2019ve gone from three to four and now to 10, but it\u2019s still not going to work, and that\u2019s really concerning. They\u2019ve had years at this. They\u2019ve been wedded to an ideological position that they have failed to move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhat we get back today is a bill that will amend two current bills before the House and a bill that was passed only last year. So what we\u2019ve got is the \u201Cback-down bill\u201D. We\u2019ve got a bill that they were forced, dragging their heels and kicking, to change, because they know that this is unpopular. They know that the public does not want this. So that\u2019s why\u2014let\u2019s be very clear about this bill: undemocratic, unworkable. National will repeal this bill. In coalition, I\u2019d like to think it will be on the first 100-day bonfire. It\u2019s very clear for voters, as they go up to 14 October, when they look at the two options: the National Party\u2019s, led by Simon Watts, Local Water Done Well, which will keep local ownership of water assets, or a Government that is wedded on ideology that Wellington knows best and that will ram through reform. I\u2019m really concerned about this: what this Government will do in the next few weeks of pushing through their legislation, which, in fact, has no mandate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll finally leave it to say: you can put in that we\u2019re going to have a community priority statement, and you can package it up that you\u2019re going to listen to the community and that you\u2019re going to bring interest groups together, but take a note of this legislation. The representative groups don\u2019t have to take that statement on board; not \u201Cmust consider\u201D but \u201Cmay consider\u201D. So, for all the speeches tonight that we hear from Labour\u2014that they have listened and they have responded to the public\u2014this bill is actually no different from where it was before. Will councils own the water assets? No. Will community views be taken into consideration? No. Has there been the removal of co-governance that\u2019s hard-baked into these reforms? No. This is the hill that this Government will die on: the hill of three waters. We will always look back at this bill that actually represented a Government that was out of touch and that thought it knew better than the people they were put in to serve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00223c2d4462707241ca8c23dc8d7ff1fa48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c2d4462707241ca8c23dc8d7ff1fa48\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Well, this evening, I have heard nothing from the National Party about what they are going to do when they talk about repealing, and this bonfire they plan to have, which I don\u2019t think they\u2019re going to have, around what they are going to do in terms of what we\u2019re going to do with the three waters\u2014nothing. All they\u2019ve presented is negativity and what they\u2019re against, not what they stand for, and that\u2019s all we see time and time again. That\u2019s why we have a plan, and we plan to implement it. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223b1504d7106145d892586a8f683eeb33\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 72\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Kerekere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 47\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10; Te Paati M\u0101ori 2; Whaitiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000414\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227829d03e0a1243d3bb8db57bb5a4f338\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003Ethe Water Services Entities Amendment Bill be considered by the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 62\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 62.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Kerekere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a56971292fab47908fa0014570092c06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a56971292fab47908fa0014570092c06\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000416\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002294534a8ff5fd434eb0634780d31c942b\u0022\u003EInstruction to Governance and Administration Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022292e3a11e3174198aa2336fdb2dadc75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022292e3a11e3174198aa2336fdb2dadc75\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I move, That the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 27 July 2023 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and 196.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe shortened select committee report-back date will ensure that we are able to provide legislative certainty to the local government sector around long-term planning in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022006b017f058049bd8506db49e57201e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022006b017f058049bd8506db49e57201e4\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS (National\u2014North Shore):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the motion be amended so that \u201C27\u00A0July 2023\u201D is omitted and replaced with \u201C19 November 2023\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe proposal on the Table this evening in regards to shortening the report-back date for the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill is completely outrageous. It is indicating to those watching that this Government is not willing to allow appropriate process and appropriate public consultation that will enable complex and significant changes to this bill to be heard by the public and to allow adequate time in order for them to make those submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAs we have heard this afternoon, the changes in regards to this legislation are significant. They are worthy of appropriate scrutiny both by those within this House and also by members of the public. The increasing of the number of entities from four to 10 is of itself a significant change in regards to this legislation. In addition to the changes around the number of entities, it is also proposing that it extend the effective commencement date for two years, which is another significant implication that should be appropriately discussed in regards to the implications that that has on our communities, our neighbourhoods, and in particular the local government entities across this country, who will be significantly impacted by this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe key aspect and issue of an extension of time for this bill, which is needed for people to provide feedback, is because, for the local government sector, one of the most significant issues it faces is uncertainty and staff turnover. This aspect of the bill is a significant change which requires time for input to be fed in. We have seen throughout this bill, and bills that have preceded it, and bills which this bill amends that are not yet passed into law\u2014and, for those that are trying to follow that narrative, there are two bills on the Order Paper pending second reading\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220162247ea0bd435e8c06224e5780f043\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! I\u2019m just going to invite the member to speak more directly to his proposed amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257fd7530adb84eb9aa153993e9428c33\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. The amendment in regards to the amended report-back date is to allow adequate time for public input in regards to those significant changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe other aspect in regards to the motion is the fact that the Finance and Expenditure Committee, which has looked at water services bills to date\u2014and a motion that I have tabled is that this bill is going to be going to the Governance and Administration Committee. This in itself has significant implications: one, because the members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee have the continuity of knowledge of the passing of this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233b608e605fe4fb8b846d8a8b3f6da2c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! The member is speaking to his proposed amendment. Once I have put the motion and the question on the member\u2019s amendment, the debate will open up more broadly to both questions. But, at the moment, the member is speaking to his amendment. He will confine his comments to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225cbd7b72faf43d9b2b41e980ffcd9b5\u0022\u003ESIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. So, as I have outlined, the key issue that we have is in regards to that shortened report-back date that will not allow adequate public input or consideration by members, and all members of this House, in regards to what are complex and significant changes to this bill. We oppose the motion that has been put on the Table by this Government and support the motion that I am tabling that will amend the date from 27 July to 19\u00A0November 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3ee71cfb92a4fe29360e02d055a1660\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3ee71cfb92a4fe29360e02d055a1660\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: I will now put the question. The question is that the motion be agreed to\u2014that is the Government\u2019s motion. I will also put: the question is that the amendment be agreed to. Now the debate is opened to\u2014I hear Matt Doocey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00226cf007ea02784851821b7713a351a11e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cf007ea02784851821b7713a351a11e\u0022\u003EMATT DOOCEY (National\u2014Waimakariri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Well, I\u2019d like to rise in opposition to the Minister\u2019s motion about a shortened report-back date of 27 July. When you look at it, for those listening, normally the submissions process is about four to six months. This has been rammed through in a bit over 30 days, and it really makes you wonder: what have they got to hide? The Minister, the Hon Kieran McAnulty, started his contribution in the first reading saying, \u201CThis bill comes to the House in good faith; the amendments are in good faith\u201D\u2014but, by the way, we\u2019re going to scurry it through because we don\u2019t want you to look at it too closely. And that really concerns me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why I think my learned colleague Simon Watts is right on the button. He speaks on behalf of the public to say, \u201CLet\u2019s extend it out to 9 November 2023\u201D\u2014because why would you not give this due diligence, especially when you take the words of the Minister\u2019s own officials? Look in the regulatory impact statement, because it\u2019s just been such a shambles, let\u2019s be honest: \u201CConstraints on timing have limited the amount of research and analysis in the development of options. As a result of these constraints, officials are continuing to work with Ministers and the sector on the impacts of a 10-entity model on transitional arrangements for local government during the establishment period.\u201D So even the officials are acknowledging that, because of constraints of the poorly held legislative process timing of this bill, even they are concerned that the analysis has not been put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhy would we not, then, double down with the submissions process to encourage all those who maybe have some technical expertise to submit as well, just to double check and make sure that what the Minister\u2019s got\u2014what he thinks is the right model\u2014is the correct model, because, as has been pointed out, there\u2019s real concern on this side of the House. This bill is not only amending legislation that\u2019s only recently been passed\u2014with us, the Opposition, calling it the \u201Cback-down bill\u201D\u2014but, in fact, is going to amend two bills currently before the House, and that\u2019s why I think it needs a full submissions process for the oversight, and for the public to have their say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThen, the final point I\u2019d make: this bill kicks out the implementation date by two years. If we have extended the implementation date by two years, why are we truncating the public submissions time frame? It actually doesn\u2019t add up, because what\u2019s going to happen is that, if they get it through, there are going to be errors and there\u2019s going to have to be workarounds. What we know is that they\u2019re rushing this through for political reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s actually a lot of public interest in this bill. There were thousands of submissions on the first bill\u2014that, actually, is not good enough, because we\u2019re now amending it because they finally listened to the public and they felt that electoral pressure. But there\u2019s a lot of public interest. The Government is trying to ram it through and talk about it as little as possible. I think, in due process, when you look at those points that I\u2019ve raised\u2014around the officials concerned in the regulatory impact statement, the public interest in this bill, and also this bill amending two bills before the House and the extended implementation date of two years\u2014it\u2019s only right, and I\u2019d call on the other parties in this House this afternoon, to support Simon Watts\u2019 motion of giving the public a say. And why wouldn\u2019t we do that\u2014extending the date out to 9 November 2023? Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e97f034a015d4cb4abe04d1ebeb42250\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e97f034a015d4cb4abe04d1ebeb42250\u0022\u003EHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E There is no doubt that, when you look at the bill that the Minister has just had read for the first time, there is in that an admission that the water reform policy brought down by the current Government is in utter tatters. We\u2019ve had three years, at least, of being told that the four entities, which the Government have set up in legislation, that exist now, is the best way to progress the water reforms in this country. So, having done that, and then latterly listening to public opinion, there\u2019s been a massive scrambling and a running round and a coming up with this bill that increases the number of entities to 10. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIt seems just unreasonable that we could have about three years of public discussion on one proposal and then only 30 days discussion on the new proposal. That doesn\u2019t indicate a Government that listens. It doesn\u2019t show respect for Parliament, given that these sorts of reforms tend to become quite deep; they are part of the infrastructure of New Zealand. I\u2019d also just say: look, councils throughout New Zealand, who have objected in large numbers to the previous proposal\u2014the proposal that\u2019s still on the books; the proposal that is still the law\u2014and have rejected that in many of their submissions and efforts to talk to the Government, are now given just 30 days to come up with their consideration on this particular new bill. I think that is totally unreasonable. So I support strongly the motion moved by Mr Watts that would kick that report-back date out to 19 November. Now, I think the other side of the House knows what that means, and that\u2019s the reason why they\u2019ve had to dig their toes in on this very, very disrespectful 30 days to make a submission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThere are billions of dollars of local government assets at stake in this proposal. If people want to know what a total shambles it is, the so-called compensation for\u2014or the confiscation of\u2014those assets has already been paid out. We\u2019ve had a situation where a compensation was paid for the current legal proposal that\u2019s out there\u2014the four waters entities\u2014but now, all of a sudden, there\u2019s a panic because it\u2019s not popular, it\u2019s not liked, and it doesn\u2019t have the level of support that it would need to make a difference. Then we have this trumped-up little bill here that expands it out to 10 entities, with very, very limited opportunity for communities to have a say in their water resources\u2014no greater, in fact, than they would have under the four entities. So a democratic right to be able to speak to your local government about the water situation in the area that one might live in is taken away. Right now, it\u2019s gone because of the four-water proposal; now we have the 10-water proposal, and it\u2019s still gone, because there\u2019s this Mickey Mouse sort of talking to various little groups that are put together, presumably, by the vested interests, and we carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EHow can it be a bad thing for the House to say, \u201CLook, let\u2019s give the public a little more time to digest this very big change. Let\u2019s give the public a little bit more time to recognise that this is a massive U-turn.\u201D\u2014actually, not quite a U-turn; it\u2019s sort of like a 90 degree turn by the Government, moving away from their four waters proposal, which is current law, to this new proposal, which apparently is put together as a result of listening to the objections that so many local bodies, who are responsible for water at the moment, have made. Well, the question is: why not hear what they think of the new proposal? Why not give them time to be able to come to the Governance and Administration Committee and make those recommendations to the select committee on this particular bill? I think it\u2019s quite simple: the desire to be demonstrating any degree of a democratic approach to such a large shift, if you like, in the way in which water services are delivered is going to be denied to them because they may come back and say, \u201CWe don\u2019t like this proposal either.\u201D, and I think that highly likely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWhat we have here is a complete muddle, and I think Parliament has a right to try and get it as straightened out as it possibly can\u2014that is the select committee process. It\u2019s what it\u2019s supposed to be there for; it\u2019s why there is a minimum of four months and two days on most bills, with the general proposition being that it should be six months. To cut it down to just under a month seems to me quite unreasonable and unfair. So Mr Watts has come up with, I think, a very reasonable suggestion that the bill report back get delayed until 19 November, meaning that it would be up to a new Parliament\u2014who, frankly, would have to deliver on the aspects of the bill\u2014to make a decision about how that report from a select committee is received. I think it\u2019s worth noting, too, that this Parliament is going to go into election recess. It will be going into that period of about six or seven weeks\u2014before the election\u2014round about the end of August, so even the modest proposal to push it out by a month to 19 November really is only going to make a couple of months\u2019 difference to it. I don\u2019t see why the Parliament would be so keen to vote for a shortened period on something that has been so very, very controversial.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe motion moved by Mr Watts has our support, and I would hope that the rest of the Parliament can offer similar support for the reasons outlined in what I\u2019ve just said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002291be973bc79d4b7b9cfa5726c31cef2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291be973bc79d4b7b9cfa5726c31cef2a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just want to make clear the reasons why this truncated select committee process is sought by the Minister. First of all, these are not wholesale changes. It\u2019s a very similar framework, with some relatively minor adjustments, including to the number of entities and some representative body matters. There is a need to get on with this. We want to see this implemented, and it\u2019s absolutely necessary that the local bodies understand exactly what the rules are as they transition and the new entities are stood up. The Minister in this case, the Hon Kieran McAnulty, has very widely and in an exemplary manner consulted on the proposals, and, therefore, the select committee process which is proposed is more than satisfactory to address the issues that will be before the committee. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u002270f2a2af5495492797dffaa85c71e1d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270f2a2af5495492797dffaa85c71e1d1\u0022\u003ENICOLE McKEE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. ACT stands in support of Simon Watts\u2019 amendment to the motion that has been put, extending the report-back date from 27 July to 19 November. When we look at the days between now and 27 July, it\u2019s actually 34 days. I do dispute what the honourable member from Labour, Dr Duncan Webb, has just said to us: that it\u2019s a minor adjustment to the number of entities. Actually, going from four to 10 is not minor. When we\u2019re looking at assets that belong to the people of New Zealand, one would think that they actually deserve the time to be heard. I believe, as I presume my ACT colleagues will as well, as National have, that that is not sufficient time. We are having a number of bills come through the House that have been truncated, and this is another one. Because we are talking about issues that belong to the people, they deserve to have that full time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIt is confusing, after all. We now have three bills going through the House, and if it\u2019s confusing for those in the House, it\u2019s got to be doubly confusing for those at home who do not understand what is going on. Having a continuation of bills going through the House with shortened periods of debate time and submission time and hearing time for those people is unethical in some respects, because we\u2019re not allowing those people to have a voice. We really need to have true public consultation when we\u2019re looking at confiscating public assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe are looking to implement this within two years, so to actually make this bill go through in a quicker time does not make sense, as one of my colleagues has said before. By moving it out to 19\u00A0November, we can get through the election, we still have the bill sitting on the Order Paper, and we can still work through the process while paying respect to the people of New Zealand who will look to have their assets being seized. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a quick call from me, but I do want to say that, on behalf of the ACT Party, we do appreciate the initiative of our colleague Simon Watts and the National Party. We do get in behind and fully support them and believe that this is something that the people of New Zealand would also expect from the parliamentarians that are representing them, and that is the ability for all of their voices to be heard in a reasonable time, in a reasonable way, and in front of the proper select committee to deal with it. ACT does support the amended motion that has gone through, and we hope that other parties will stand in support as well. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022 data-id=\u0022951cff97cb1144bf8b40986a87578c5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022951cff97cb1144bf8b40986a87578c5e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, this debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 27\u00A0June 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202306221334d0584331468089b8ce4c9f964d54000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a25943b-cb3b-49c3-bd10-74316fae17f1\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"