"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eccfaba7afdc447893dd87db595bd731\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 12 DECEMBER 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002280ee05873cf04bde9c815ddd48be7bf3\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 12 DECEMBER 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022916de493d4ab485fabd8d380bd7ba684\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8ad0cec726a4a7cba218fd64324f31e\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00223cea829873814a2cb45bbafc6ac73cf9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cea829873814a2cb45bbafc6ac73cf9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022379c2e694f5246bab1258c10973e24ae\u0022\u003EMembers Sworn\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0d615445e8f4275a88f62dc2198ef61\u0022\u003EMembers Sworn\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002272e4b9f68b5749fba76533ad62a26702\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e4b9f68b5749fba76533ad62a26702\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I have to report that on Friday, 8 December 2023 the Hon David Parker was sworn in as member of Parliament by the Clerk of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI understand that the Hon Kelvin Davis is present and wishes to make the Affirmation of Allegiance. Would he please come forward to the chair on my right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022 data-id=\u00228689a7e886954fb290e4b4e104bb2e3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228689a7e886954fb290e4b4e104bb2e3b\u0022\u003EHon KELVIN DAVIS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Ko ahau, ko Kelvin Glen Davis, e k\u012B i runga i te pono, i te tika, i te ng\u0101kau tapatahi, me te whaka\u016B an\u014D ka noho pirihonga, ka noho p\u016Bmau ki a K\u012Bngi Ti\u0101re te Tuatoru me t\u014Dna k\u0101hui whakaheke e ai ki te ture. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E[I, Kelvin Glen Davis, solemnly, sincerely, and truly declare and affirm that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles III, His heirs and successors, according to law.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022622521b78bf14ef6b923eaa3e011506c\u0022\u003EStanding Orders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a0cb672f05f04791a3ea7862fded81c7\u0022\u003EStanding Orders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022412d7871479f4d12ae20d22d1f247982\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022412d7871479f4d12ae20d22d1f247982\u0022\u003ESPEAKER:\u003C/span\u003E Members, I\u2019d like to draw your attention to a change in the Standing Orders that was agreed last Thursday by the House, and that is the adoption of the term \u201CAmendment Paper\u201D to replace \u201CSupplementary Order Paper\u201D\u2014something that might be useful for members in debates over coming days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225fc30acf78e2434eb15e9b62595b2efd\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c6335f971ad463ab1148672ee3037a1\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022eeb7d8028d8246bc80a6f7fa43b5c714\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eeb7d8028d8246bc80a6f7fa43b5c714\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022b887b26d3b714a2a9fd407b0c85597c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b887b26d3b714a2a9fd407b0c85597c6\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Deirdre Kent requesting that the House investigate an energy rationing scheme such as the tradable energy quotas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Alva Feldmeier requesting that the House urge the Government to make a commitment and release a strategy to help Aotearoa achieve 750 megawatts of community energy generation and 400 megawatts of community energy storage by 2035\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Focus on Iran requesting that the House of Representatives urge the Prime Minister to designate the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corp as a terrorist entity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224d58ab83bb3d476dbf8d1ddd3910c157\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d58ab83bb3d476dbf8d1ddd3910c157\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers. There is quite a list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002212651a9d158245eda0a1b9093e96bd56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212651a9d158245eda0a1b9093e96bd56\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2022-23 annual reports of:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ECrown Law Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ECrown Regional Holdings Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMinistry of Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EHealth and Disability Commissioner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EHealth Quality and Safety Commission New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EHealth Research Council of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMinistry of Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ENetwork for Learning Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Blood Service Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Infrastructure Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EParliamentary Counsel Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ESport New Zealand Group\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ETamaki Regeneration Company\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMinistry of Housing and Urban Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EMinistry for Women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2023-24 Statements of Performance Expectations for:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EHealth and Disability Commissioner\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EHealth Research Council of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EHealth Quality and Safety Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPharmac.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2023-27 Statements of Intent for:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Blood and Organ Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EHealth Research Council of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2023-27 Strategic Intentions for the Parliamentary Counsel Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReports in relation to selected non-departmental appropriations for the year ended 30 June 2023 for the following portfolios within Vote Business, Science and Innovation:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EEconomic Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ERegional Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ESport and Recreation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ETourism\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EClimate Change Commission 2023 advice on the direction of polity for the Government\u2019s second emissions reduction plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002264258e3343c04b3a994f00e7100d627d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264258e3343c04b3a994f00e7100d627d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. There are no select committee papers. No bills have been introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a54814f0a7dc49a0bb1ae80ebaa318c8\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022630e6591a83846f89985958e38972b6a\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d53b8b38af574fea82900fad03202ebd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u00222d80ed1526754424892e4e82ecc5d886\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d80ed1526754424892e4e82ecc5d886\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What plans does the Government have for supporting the Reserve Bank to achieve low and stable inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a533eeea94da4d4a958e6d56e191aef6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a533eeea94da4d4a958e6d56e191aef6\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Inflation has been out of the Reserve Bank\u2019s target range now for 2\u00BD long years, and New Zealanders are doing it tough in a cost of living crisis. The public knows that this Government\u2019s commitment to beating inflation is rock-solid, which is why, later this evening, the Government will introduce legislation returning the Reserve Bank to a single focus on inflation. After 30 years of an extremely successful inflation-targeting regime, where the Reserve Bank largely managed to control inflation, the previous Government muddied the waters by introducing a secondary objective to focus on employment as well as inflation. Now, as the Reserve Bank wrestles with trying to bring inflation back under control, our Government will clarify the bank\u2019s objectives and support public confidence that inflation can and will be returned below 3 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226de6f06623b3403d9f4917f164d283ba\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: What support has she had from the Reserve Bank in returning the bank to a single focus on inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231ee9cb3a64241948d68e17b50b63fe8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I wrote to the Reserve Bank outlining proposed changes to the monetary policy remit last week and the governor wrote back offering the Reserve Bank\u2019s support for the changes, noting that \u201CGiving the inflation objective priority will assist the credibility of the inflation target.\u201D I want to thank the Reserve Bank for their support in recent days as we move back to a single focus on inflation. I know the Government and the bank are in lockstep in our shared goal of getting inflation back under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8064c75a9534f589cda333eda8ed88b\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: What other plans does the Government have for achieving low and stable inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c40f0d93bcf48f18ff83dc7d6ff213d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Amending the Reserve Bank Act is an important step but just one step in our plan to beat inflation. The governor was right when he said monetary policy needs mates, but the mates have been few and far between for the last few years. For years, the last Government\u2019s only response to inflation was more spending. Instead of just delivering income tax relief, they experimented with broken policies like the cost of living payment and, during their term in office, managed to increase Government spending by 80 percent. And yet, which New Zealander can point to a central government service that is 80 percent better?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d066b2721e0c48f8804087e24d74ce7d\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: This is not actually within the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b85cbf8312d24e5aa034a017be5e3c58\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A bit of order\u2014that\u2019s enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224995cfaca88d411ba8ca6346d262668a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The past Government may be prepared to put more fuel on the inflation fire, but we won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c4fb6d1ae2e4c6b877506fbb2300a12\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government not just wasting the House\u2019s time removing the Reserve Bank\u2019s dual mandate, as the governor said in response to my questioning in 2022 that it had not changed their approach to monetary policy and targeting inflation\u2014virtue-signalling, if you will?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200fec009ff3c48c9ade912720b91dd8b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I note that both the Treasury and the Reserve Bank are supportive of an approach to monetary policy that more clearly prioritises achieving price stability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd5ea99161964c3da1228edbcf4624a8\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: On what date will inflation fall below 3 percent as a result of this piece of legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4ce46f9fbf74984904a04a683ba9219\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Quicker than under your watch! But I would note that I asked the member the same question when he was the Minister of Finance, and as he well knows, the Reserve Bank is required to return inflation within the target band over the medium term. This very point is one that the coalition has committed to exploring, and we will be taking advice on whether we should better define the medium term so that New Zealanders can have even greater confidence about the time period in which inflation will come under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022763bc9fc1b6e402ebfc3d63c22591189\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: What other plans does the Government have for achieving low and stable inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8e16e43f1e341a59bcf45bbb8590535\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government recognises that inflation has many influences. We are also committed to reducing costs on business which end up being passed on to New Zealanders, and this will help reduce inflationary pressure in the economy. We\u2019re already taking actions through our 100-day plan, including ending the ute tax, abolishing the Government\u2019s broken Resource Management Act reforms, restoring flexibility in the labour market, and cancelling Labour\u2019s plans for fuel tax hikes next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff891d8f88a84b2386f01a06df049978\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Acting Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00227e0964712cc3467096ee709239d81ac5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e0964712cc3467096ee709239d81ac5\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Acting Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00222e12e92f4a084676b6d945cf847d44f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e12e92f4a084676b6d945cf847d44f5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E With regard to evidence and information at the time of those statements, yes. But, of course, where new information or evidence emerges, we acknowledge that and don\u2019t just carry on like a bigoted lefty shill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274ec5d0424dc4ce99652942215ba4867\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just remind the member that the question is to the Acting Prime Minister and Hansard will record that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e803c7cc8ef34a859a9dd7b8e8da16db\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement made by then Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters in 2018 that the oil and gas ban \u201Cmakes sense\u201D and that introducing the ban was the change that New Zealanders wanted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224511f5880a741a1b8ea01b3466c5bc2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say that the Prime Minister and this Government have its settings on the future, and if the Prime Minister and that member with the question were to go back and examine the time and the place when that statement was made, there was a ban on at the time. Does that member not remember that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253aa704816274d358d453d21f61e514f\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Is reopening the New Zealand coast to oil and gas exploration a contradiction to the Minister of Climate Change\u2019s call for a global agreement to phase out fossil fuels at COP28?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220897e8b7def540e390e288a5aae95ebd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister: right now at COP 28, they are wrestling with that very issue, and they\u2019ll be probably working days longer than that because they haven\u2019t come to an agreement. And the two representatives at that time\u2014the previous member and Minister in charge of it and the present Minister\u2014are doing a fine job to ensure that New Zealand\u2019s commitments remain the same going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1ea43821d7e4bc8bb6b7e1c5680e02e\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the United Nations Secretary-General that \u201Cthe 1.5 degree limit is only possible if we ultimately stop burning all fossil fuels, not reduce, not abate?\u201D, and if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baa6e154f0ed45e8b8b4938eb5bec0aa\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: With respect to that questioner, the UN Secretary-General Guterres has made it very, very clear that this is a subject for COP28, and he\u2019s awaiting the outcome for that, and so are we as contributors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1be539991af468885f3cb4751c0eebe\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider the repeal of the ban on oil and gas exploration to be a betrayal of our Pacific neighbours, who today called for a global phase-out of fossil fuels as the only way to save the Pacific from going to \u201Ctheir watery graves?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb033c3695ae4e70af136102cc29f112\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, we do not, and the reason is very simple. We are in the middle of a transition, and rather than bringing in a whole lot of inferior Indonesian coal, which the previous Government was doing, we\u2019re looking for safer products to take us\u2014[Interruption] They might think this is a laughing matter. I hear them scoffing over here\u2014brought in all that Indonesian coal, trying to excuse themselves, and not even using New Zealand coal, which would have been a better, cleaner substitute. And here we go now into a transition where gas will be very critical and, when we get there, we\u2019ll be able to face the Pacific nations and have done our duty to them as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4227695294e4b61858ed1e398859f78\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Acting Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022baf5618bdbb54fabbfbca1b4e3485577\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022baf5618bdbb54fabbfbca1b4e3485577\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Acting Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022245afa1f125a487a85e284f1b9756984\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00221c591528703849c6834571d2cdb12869\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c591528703849c6834571d2cdb12869\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E The pause was because the same question was asked when it was question two, and did not the former Prime Minister see that? The answer is: ditto.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee27f4f30b754d7da0f3731e28c6f219\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his Government\u2019s commitment in the National - ACT coalition document to \u201Camend the Overseas Investment Act 2005 to limit ministerial decision-making to national security concerns?\u201D, and is he confident that all parties in the coalition will be supporting that amendment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbc1119a801d4594b1111216f11e63e0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: If that wasn\u2019t the case, we would not have signed up to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253e1cda18c734bea95b5e44e7361e654\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: You did!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256336578733b47f189d59ec982b32379\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I said if that was not the case, we would not have signed up to it. Words matter, Mr Robertson, not this gobbledygook. And the reason we signed up to it was because we could see under the previous administration they had no idea of the importance of international investment and the security of long-term policy which persuades people to come here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e6b52e402c64816a58a3f208ed4bb8e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Winston Peters in 2017 that \u201Clast year, 465,000 hectares of land was sold to foreigners. That\u2019s up to four times on the year before. We in New Zealand First are going to stop land sales to foreigners and house sales to foreigners who don\u2019t come and live here.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b4454df7d474a85878d3f3b7403ac50\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, can I just say that having heard that quote from one of the brightest guys that have ever come to this Parliament, it was voiced by not me\u2014a previous Labour Party person said that; I was just borrowing his words. But the point of the matter is that we were looking to ensure that any offshore investment in this country had the national interest and economic benefit of New Zealand\u2014like Ireland, like countries like Singapore\u2014first in mind. And with that in mind, we welcome overseas investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223bf714d66c349c888bd9298a9bdcbb8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: So why is the Government repealing that test from the Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a0229d98c04f369440af92163a841a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Because like everything the Labour Party put its hands on, they didn\u2019t interpret it properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022416c372eb7024e7895ef9a41e6856a9c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his Government\u2019s commitment to repeal the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Monetary Policy) Amendment Act, or does he agree with Shane Jones that the dual mandate brings us \u201Cinto international best practice area. This is not a journey into the unknown; this is to link up progressive, far-sighted Government passing legislation that shows a great similarity to other reserve banks in their mandates, which have moved away from this bare, sparse, barren approach reflective of Don Brash\u2019s stewardship of said bank.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022954eaaed3a2449adb8c28f3fd9804f36\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m certain that members and those in the gallery and those who are watching on TV are going to enjoy today\u2019s conversation because they\u2019re hearing so many wise words being repeated back to them\u2014in this case, by the Opposition\u2014with respect to National Party members. But we have to move on. The point is this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200ebbc8419b049b095c1c2813a998a00\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re out, Shane!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221866eaae10f1416d905dae7122041527\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, we have to move on in this context. [Interruption] The Minister of Finance is wrestling with something very similar to what\u2019s emerged in Australia lately, and that is inflation. Unlike what the previous finance Minister said, it is not foreign grown; it\u2019s home grown, and massively so, because of their squanderous expenditure. That\u2019s why we had to have a talk with the Governor of the Reserve Bank and get him to help us, both ways, to turn back the tide of inflation and give New Zealanders a chance to go into the future with the hope that we\u2019ll have a better cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250cdb42dfbcb4194aefe546a15b75c30\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he therefore agree with Winston Peters that the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Monetary Policy) Amendment Act \u201Cmakes very important changes to the Reserve Bank Act that will significantly improve monetary policy as it relates to its impact on New Zealanders and the real economy\u201D; if so, why is the Government repealing them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242407a8c64d94cb393fd00c326830ed5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Because at the time that Winston Peters said that, he was having regard to an immigration policy which he had persuaded the then Government to adapt. It hardly got there, and when the handbrake went off, they ran amok and in the last year have brought in 118,000 immigrants\u2014that\u2019s a massive record for this country\u2014with no infrastructure, no houses, no health, no nothing. And he now wants us to carry on with the same policy. No, it\u2019s important that we address the circumstances we\u2019re in right now, left by them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d29e0a596aa464ea4c399d6c1e55a3d\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That was an interesting answer, but it wasn\u2019t to the question. The question was about the Reserve Bank, not about what was talked about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f0ee8f4a21d44eabc283a7a3816b0b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the question was actually about a quote from the Rt Hon Winston Peters from some time ago, and what the Acting Prime Minister thought of that quote. I think he answered it fairly concisely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a80b97f1140a407dad8b8b1b1b7a53ed\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Acting Prime Minister agree with David Seymour that \u201Cyou can\u2019t trust Winston Peters, and a lot of things will be much, much harder than they otherwise would.\u201D, and that Winston Peters is \u201Cjust a muppet; the problem is he can\u2019t work with anyone. The good news is he\u2019s going down on flames; he\u2019s yesterday\u2019s man.\u201D, and, if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240f24310c16f40038155dbb8e39296fd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Because even politically, as the Good Book says, nobody\u2019s beyond redemption. Nobody is for not understanding how helpful a person can be. The people who should be the authority on that are sitting over there, because without our open-mindedness and liberality, no one would have ever heard of those people ever again. But they hardly got the job and they thought they got there by themselves. And when the handbrake left, what a mess they were. My evidence for that is in their first week of being a parliamentary Opposition, they asked 6,000 questions, which kind of suggests in 2020 to 2023, they had no answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b0a2002333940bfa83a47f7f74ffead\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Government ever reversed position\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb407115db5c48d08a81b8bdd3d98e5f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hold on. Just a bit of order. The question\u2019s being asked. The Hon David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce7c601cbb954eeabde895d06cd49ff5\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Has the Government ever reversed policy positions before, such as putting on a bonfire the RNZ-TVNZ merger\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022049f4ae082fa44f99f298c989175d4a4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, nice question but out of order. So we\u2019ll go now to question number four.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d88c146c8754b0783b9f23eed387cd2\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209f68f1febb245148f0a429d203aaa04\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014better be one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022636ac12febce4708b60240d8c44a83d9\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a question about Government policy. Surely I can ask about policies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d00ac3b74b5479c9d17f6b47bad0051\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you were citing a previous Government\u2019s policy, and as you know, that\u2019s not permissible. The member himself would have probably elicited that very ruling from a Speaker in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e7ac9b347d94ea081d900c8df6a3756\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022b35e0ca050ca4a4082a0e1caa504b0c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b35e0ca050ca4a4082a0e1caa504b0c4\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What announcements has he made on setting speed limits in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0ffe6a3f5394784a05159ec850ee9de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0ffe6a3f5394784a05159ec850ee9de\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN (National\u2014Pakuranga):\u003C/span\u003E Today, I announced that the coalition Government is amending speed limit rules as part of our commitment to stop blanket speed limit reductions across the country. Kiwis have been faced with blanket speed limit reductions due to the previous Government\u2019s speed limits rule, which fails to prioritise the economic impacts of slowing New Zealanders down and the views of road users and local communities alongside safety. Changes that I have announced today will remove deadlines for speed management plans and allow road-controlling authorities to stop blanket speed limit reductions on our roads while we write a new rule. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c7780bc0ae14a6abf06bbb4de260b46\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Why have these changes been made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed18563777c44f449ffac4437147f77b\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: These changes have been made to remove mandatory requirements set by the previous Government for road-controlling authorities to implement blanket speed limit reductions across the country. This coalition Government wants to see a transport system that boosts productivity and economic growth and allows New Zealanders to get where they want to go quickly and safely. Given our coalition Government has begun work on a new rule, I wanted to ensure road-controlling authorities avoid wasting public money\u2014something the Opposition doesn\u2019t care about\u2014on finalising speed management plans only to have to revisit these plans under a new rule. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ee81e09528f4424991b15dd999f9dbb\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What are the next steps for ending blanket speed limit reductions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce9805d7378e47f19a03d06ba2d142f5\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Very good question. The next step is to write a new rule that takes into consideration a wide range of factors including economic impacts, including travel times, and the views of road users and local communities alongside safety when setting speed limits. The National-ACT coalition agreement is committed to reversing blanket speed limit reductions where it is safe to do so, and this will come as welcome news to Kiwis around the country who have been faced with unnecessary blanket speed limit reductions under the previous Government. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f64af251fbf4a918445ba984adfa2c8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute. Just to remind members that when questions are being asked the questioner is given the courtesy of a quiet House. Tom Rutherford.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fc84c1158f04e4183ffbe6a3e2ea1ca\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. What requirements will the Minister set for speed limits outside of schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a79b61bd0e5843b0ba6a62c5d73b4ec2\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: This new rule that I will develop next year will require road-controlling authorities to implement variable speed limits on roads approaching schools during pick-up and drop-off times. This differs to the previous Government\u2019s rule which resulted in blanket speed limit reductions to 30 kilometres per hour on many urban roads. Our coalition Government\u2019s new rule will keep young New Zealanders safe while allowing Kiwis to get where they want to go quickly and safely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bd06d1a88544334adc5aa98ce86aa80\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022951dfa7459d942b4bcfd6d5172362ba3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022951dfa7459d942b4bcfd6d5172362ba3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does she stand by Nicola Willis\u2019 statement, \u201CComing back to those extra source of revenue and other savings areas that will help us to fund the tax reduction, we have to remember that the changes to the smoke free legislation had a significant impact on the Government\u2019s books\u2014with about $1 billion there.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002219471b9d5c914d31badf7be610a26189\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219471b9d5c914d31badf7be610a26189\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e51c596ed9eb4e8db5f18780ddd52e53\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: What is the source of her statement that there is a billion dollars a year impact on the Government\u2019s books from undoing the smoke-free changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292bb3db3f8964231baaee772607ea301\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The source was my answer to the question, and I continue to seek advice from officials on the spending and revenue implications of coalition commitments. Many of those details are Budget sensitive and I will make announcements about them in due course. As the member well knows, the statement he is referring to was made before I was sworn in as the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022756e7eef004c4e6f94d98887020280b4\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Has she been advised that there is a billions of dollars a year impact on the Government\u2019s books from undoing the smoke-free changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca9b6c81f22d46c48b572ad4a837696f\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: As I say, I continue to seek advice from officials on the spending and revenue implications of coalition commitments. Many of those details are Budget sensitive and I will make announcements about them in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe65b2b327774de6b02128bf19d2fc45\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Is she ruling out using the revenue from winding back smoke-free initiatives to fund tax cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229aaffa225fc440be8bd8d812cebd6f64\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, the Government has multiple sources of revenue and multiple spending commitments. It is this Government\u2019s expectation that, just as was the case with his outgoing Government, tobacco will continue to be regulated and taxed. I note that during his time as finance Minister, he collected hundreds of millions of dollars in tobacco tax revenue, which was used for a wide range of purposes, including health and education services and Working for Families payments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ddafacd1e9b472bb2b2145514ad1a0d\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t believe that question was addressed in that answer. I asked her whether she was ruling it out or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223209c36881db444ea9953d8271ebba8a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s often the case. The question is asked; an answer is given; the question is addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229098511f827548d5a494eca11da1f4df\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s very philosophical, Mr Speaker. Will she today rule out using the revenue gained from stopping the smoke-free changes for tax cuts in light of Sir Collin Tukuitonga describing doing so as \u201Cimmoral\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229512ec8a44d42ada89f1f4fa72195d2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Just as was the case with his Government, tax revenue from a range of sources will be used to support the activities of Government, including delivery of health services through to transfer payments and paying down debt. The member may not like the answers to my questions, but in Opposition he\u2019s going to have to get used to it. And if I may say to the member, Opposition does appear to suit him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229dda8a65a7c547509890141b0d4f3478\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u002208e360afd45049c1a2dc63d1bbf841ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208e360afd45049c1a2dc63d1bbf841ff\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What is the Government\u2019s position on sentencing, and why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00224a89480b6c7a45349589db06c3372c9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a89480b6c7a45349589db06c3372c9e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The coalition Government will take a tougher approach to sentencing law so serious offenders face real consequences for their crime as part of our plan to restore law and order. The coalition Government will prioritise public safety and victims through a series of measures we have agreed to implement. These include limiting massive discounts that weaken offenders\u2019 final sentencing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c83569012149477da67293644cef3461\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: What recent estimates has he seen about sentencing discounts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bce876c955c4a6ab04279a89c203a59\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve been advised by officials that, for serious and violent offenders who pleaded guilty in 2021\u201322, their best estimate is that between 4,600 and 7,800 offenders were issued with a sentencing discount of greater than 40 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeb04c622e9f472c8e92b9e46fcda189\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government concerned about large sentencing discounts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0ffae95486a4c6baa3c87d429688d62\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The strong feedback we\u2019ve received across the country this year is that many New Zealanders are concerned with increased violent crime and want to see tougher consequences for serious violent and sexual offenders. Part of the role of sentencing is to denounce the criminal act and to recognise the harm caused to victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022964d1946921547439d1fb675edbde8b9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the statement of Mr Penk of the Maxim Institute in an opinion piece in the New Zealand Herald that \u201CSerious crimes deserve serious punishment, but three strikes is a blunt tool, capable of doing serious injustice\u201D; if not, what advice has he received suggesting that a three-strikes regime is an effective sentencing approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242a75b66306d4b6580800c9f6911ee8a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I haven\u2019t seen that report, and I don\u2019t agree with the sentiments there. I think three strikes did send a very clear signal to offenders that serious consequences for crime are required. And I think we\u2019ve seen right throughout the last year, all around the communities, that New Zealanders have been concerned about the rise of crime under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b74ed4b651cc40d58b2a47cdc967f5b4\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: What progress has he made on implementing the Government\u2019s plan to take a tougher approach to sentencing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222410d860753645578998b888a4d87b02\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m pleased to inform the House that the coalition Government is prioritising its plan to restore law and order after six years of a Government being focused on reducing prison numbers without reducing crime. As well as the measures listed in our 100-day plan, we have committed to limiting total sentence discounts to 40 percent. This will ensure that serious offenders face real consequences for their crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223802d2c8c5cf4bd882e6e9568e056793\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister saying that the previous Government\u2019s policy with respect to serious crime is going to be consigned back to the fishing industry, and that no longer for serious crime are we going to have catch and release?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e48d31f53ec4afdb73643adae824fc8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s not a reasonable question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b6765ba1fea44efadd221387c42884d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00229e5d41c574bf469db2d69adc5ed01263\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e5d41c574bf469db2d69adc5ed01263\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Does she accept the Treasury\u2019s advice that the removal of fair pay agreements would disproportionately affect women, young people, M\u0101ori, and Pasifika; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022e85d88a34dae4e2faa69dcf9fe7c2b92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e85d88a34dae4e2faa69dcf9fe7c2b92\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I have not received any advice from Treasury, nor would I expect to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a5c06c69c404f2abcfb23bffa12a55d\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Does she acknowledge that Christmas is a particularly stressful time for low-wage workers, and if so, why is her first action as Minister to remove workplace rights instead of improve them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf4f0f389622482abc1b6aa956f3a308\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge that many Kiwis are struggling with a cost of living crisis, and that\u2019s why this Government is focused on improving productivity, reducing regulation, and getting rid of inflation so that Kiwis have more money for them and their families. But I want to acknowledge, when it comes to the fair pay agreements, nobody will be worse off with the removal of the fair pay agreements, because there have not been any fair pay agreements finalised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2ba7f6263d04ba3aa67a2bc53956e3a\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Does she know how many workers are in sectors that have already instigated bargaining under the fair pay agreements framework, and, if not, why hasn\u2019t she asked?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022702ffbff7dac4259ae1cdb3404c3c799\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: There have been six fair pay agreements that are currently in a bargaining process. There are many New Zealanders who are being represented during that process. But, of course, I want to stress that not a single member involved in that process has a fair pay agreement, because not a single fair pay agreement has been finalised or signed. So no Kiwis are worse off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223299fd059295443ca4fd7b703d72479a\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that bus drivers, cleaners, and early childhood education teachers earn at least 30 percent more pay in Australia, where sector-based bargaining is in place, and, if so, why should New Zealanders settle for less?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244e4c83f64614f55bc971738184d3680\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: Workers in Australia, across industries, are better off. But that\u2019s why this Government is focusing on making sure that we have a flexible labour market where we increase productivity, where we have businesses able to invest in their workers and invest in their businesses so workers and business are better off in our economy. That is the focus of our Government\u2014to have a thriving economy where businesses have more money to pay their staff more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245421998c02d474391049e56a26b1ad4\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Has she sought advice from officials on their preferred option of minimum employment standards to ensure there is no race to the bottom for low-wage workers, and, if not, is that because she is more interested in disproven right-wing ideology than in lifting wages?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef623fcce2c94e08a2bb09f99f7d9692\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have not asked for any advice on alternative models. I am focused on delivering on this Government\u2019s 100-day commitment to repeal the fair pay agreements. I look forward to working with the member, over the next three years, in this portfolio. Clearly, he\u2019s interested in where we get to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b925d7a18c9e400eaf7f43266f27b7f2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Acting Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e72f2b4a6ad2492e848b805d109d8ace\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e72f2b4a6ad2492e848b805d109d8ace\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Acting Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022543f3778eb514c7d8396bc60676ae2b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022543f3778eb514c7d8396bc60676ae2b5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E In the same way as we answered for questions two and three, and again in question eight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce192d4add1a4a0a82e660aa3dbd0900\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: How can he stand by his decision to use parliamentary urgency to push through legislation that will increase unemployment and insecure working conditions, while reducing wages, when people are trying to survive a cost of living crisis and put more kai on the table for Christmas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5ddd53c8bc340cb899114efffaccaad\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Because none of those statements in that so-called question are true. But they are relevant to the inheritance that this Government is, sadly, having to deal with now, and desperately before Christmas. And so if they\u2019d paid more attention to the economy, rather than their woke, idiotic, left ideals\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e478cf0e96747be8d82b8d211c80a18\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, that\u2019ll do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fd30edb2531489c836ea717381b1232\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the workers of this country would have done far better. But it\u2019s been my observation that the Greens\u2014the economies that they admire are all in the Third World.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d321c82d49d43a4a2a3903d297e6327\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, through you, please, e te P\u012Bka. There are a couple of ones I could bring in\u2014perhaps Standing Order 121, personal reflections, or relevance to debate, Standing Order 112. I\u2019ll leave that up to you, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022384633c1430a4769abda030119585bbc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I know. But I could also rule out your first supplementary because it had suppositions in it. So we do try and get a degree of flow, if at all possible. But if you just restate your concerns, there, because I didn\u2019t quite pick up the first one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223864a8cd58d64f6f8064708c056bff91\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: My concerns are that the question, for the Deputy Prime Minister, wasn\u2019t answered. And we also take exception with reference to \u201Cwoke\u201D. They\u2019re personal reflections and they don\u2019t belong in this House. Ko t\u014Dku whakaaro. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E[That is my opinion.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293c2c82eab5242d18164ba147834b834\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, there\u2019s an awful lot of things that happen in this House that don\u2019t really belong here, so I think we might just let that one slide. Do you have another supplementary at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c319053979004792b12480e2959674b9\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do. Thank you. What is his justification for repealing fair pay agreements and reducing the wages and conditions of M\u0101ori, Pasifika, young people, and women, as highlighted by his own Government\u2019s leaked Cabinet paper?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bca3a1c4f712497d953028ff50bbca1a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, first of all, the integrity of the person answering this question on the subject of incomes and wages is that that threshold was set in the previous Government, not by Labour or the Greens but by New Zealand First. We want the working class of this country to get fairly paid, but we want a thing called productivity, and we know it\u2019s only based on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e4fd6e8df724b9e8fa912c65f735c10\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262ed8bfb0fbc43859371245c18c1bed5\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not nonsense; it\u2019s totally true and I can prove it. I can go back to 2017 and prove that categorically. We know what they campaigned on, so don\u2019t come here today and try and tell us what you couldn\u2019t do. At the end of the last three years, the workers of this country were dramatically let down by a failed economy, and our job is to turn that around. When we do so, we\u2019ll uplift the wages of everybody in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224339361c105c4d0682d19d8237d89aef\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this Government planning to bring back 90-day trials, which will disproportionately punish tangata whenua, particularly rangatahi trying to get their foot in the door of the job market, when the research commissioned by the Treasury in 2016 found no evidence that trial periods increased firms\u2019 overall hiring but instead just make it easier for firms to sack people without cause and with fewer dismissal costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4ac7071ad4346fd8c5fe9bd9e25dfcb\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The fact is\u2014if anyone understands economics\u2014a willing business and a willing worker are critical to employment. So whether it\u2019s one month, two months, or three months, the fact of the matter is that the sound connection of those two will work. However, it is our intention as the Government, the moment someone is no longer able to work, to be on their case to get them back into work. So the consequences that that member\u2019s talking about simply will not happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210ead05aac7742249d3233c39e69e6f1\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Given the member\u2019s pride in the minimum wage level, can he tell the House what the minimum wage is today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261b9b0023cbf417c86da97f01a86d624\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Twenty-two dollars, $23, $22.70. $22.70\u2014am I right? Yeah. [Interruption] No, I didn\u2019t ask him\u2014no, I was telling him. I said $22.70, knowing that I\u2019d have an affirmation on my right from the Minister of Finance and the Leader of the House. Over here, we consult before we open our mouth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229289e2d69d34b388c78b2ab60d599be\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: He aha t\u014D whakautu ki ng\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B e mahi ana m\u014D ng\u0101 tamariki rawakore e karanga ana kia heke te whika o ng\u0101 tamariki rawakore m\u0101 te pene, m\u0101 te hiki i te whiwhinga p\u016Btea, m\u0101 te ng\u0101wari o te hoko kai, me te m\u0101uiui \u0101rai?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E[What is your response to the groups that are working for underprivileged children that are calling for a reduction in the number of underprivileged people by the pen, by raising wages, by making it easier to buy food and medication?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229530c6241e324fe7b203358e2d3e3743\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is the member going to translate that or does he want to give the Minister a moment to receive that translation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273614c11f02a44f1b9dbdacad0b57aa7\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222824b4a0d3df44c49bfe6349aa29bd89\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. It\u2019s only a question; it wasn\u2019t any kind of a direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244861a934a0c4ea5b746fdd620d5a6b1\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237aeacce8b69453cb097842592405381\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. The question doesn\u2019t need to be answered if the Minister\u2014or the Prime Minister in this case\u2014doesn\u2019t feel like he wants to answer it. So does the member want to have another question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe12b9f4ec5643838d5df425be4d115b\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I guess, strictly speaking, your ruling is in order, but the practice in the time I\u2019ve been in the House is that that is only done when a question is definitively out of order. We have a simultaneous translation system in the House to allow for members to answer. I wonder whether the right course of action here might be for Mr Waititi to repeat the question and the Acting Prime Minister to use his earpiece for the translation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b72354296fb64b7ca158d4d506091ab4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e5bd8dbe8c94bd4bdfc9f46088d00f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267acfae25da9424088a28f7acd08b972\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we\u2019ve got an answer to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227322ac8765594c62a5b6fcddf171309f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I just wish that the courtesy of the House would apply so that the person asking the question, Mr Speaker\u2014point of order\u2014also had the comfort that the people who are watching on television also are part of this parliamentary debate. That\u2019s what a democracy is called. It\u2019s not just about 5 percent; it\u2019s about the other 95 percent as well. It\u2019s called \u201Cone people, one country\u201D. Now, back to my point. If the member is concerned about the cost of living\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b243624501343de974b7a447313ba1e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: You are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac8bf676024c46d58c2be1aa4f81f05c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no. On the marae, Megan, you keep quiet. You do. Willie knows that; he keeps quiet too. You don\u2019t shout out like some bunch of clowns at university. That member\u2019s asked a question; he deserves an answer and I\u2019ll give it to him. If the member is concerned about the cost of living, then that is the greatest concern of this Government as well. When we went into the last election it was a massive issue, and just behind it was crime and lawlessness and M\u0101ori gangs, by the same way. But the cost of living can only be addressed by dealing with the causes of it, and the causes of it are the number one centre and focus of this Government going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cd59c9b4e23449bb018197ff42debeb\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Was that a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f072ac1996c642a6871fc5834e61bf6d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that was an answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220d74fd357454263b83e55d4e59903d3\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: He raised a point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ea874b3a9ec4629aa16172489efd781\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I\u2019m sorry\u2014sorry, hang on. The Acting Prime Minister made it very clear: when I called him on a point of order he said, \u201CNo, it is an answer.\u201D, and that\u2019s how we progressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7d8d873a39242c2b920113f35b77008\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. With respect to the House and to everyone watching, can we please seek clarity from the Speaker: are our questions in te reo no longer going to be answered by Ministers if they choose not to use the interpreter? That\u2019s a really important subject that we\u2019re looking for clarity on, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b3d8d325bd34e688bfb893cd3804333\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t answer that question for Ministers. The provision is made here for the translation. A Minister decides whether or not an answer can be given, and there are very clear outlines in the Standing Orders as to how they might make that decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d25d3141fefb4451bbe4ab7038c2db23\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The questions were for the Deputy Prime Minister, so I respect that Ministers may choose to do what they want to, but this is a question that would have gone to the Prime Minister, who isn\u2019t here. So can I seek clarity again: is it the Deputy Prime Minister, the Prime Minister, or the Government that\u2019s making this decision before us today? Because it is a big decision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b54cf677cae846f4b758dc369888c0a1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not; it\u2019s straightforward\u2014that all Ministers are part of the Government, including the Prime Minister, whether they\u2019re Acting Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, or a Minister, and it is very clear under the Standing Orders how they may or may not answer the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220079b7a0b68e45a796a2b39ba4cdd1d4\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I think, in fairness to the members asking the questions, sometimes the contemporaneous translation service doesn\u2019t quite keep up with the asking of the question. So if I could say to members who wish to use te reo when asking questions: if they could perhaps indicate they\u2019re about to do so, so that Ministers and Government respondents can get the translation device, the hearing equipment\u2014the earpiece\u2014so that they can actually listen to the question as it\u2019s being asked. That will also help the translator do their job as well, so that we can have the expeditious exchange rather than what we just had. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e59532325bc47f6b02d9fa882f25fa2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Next in line was Marama Davidson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d79ec8886b2946fcb73b9f6aeabdf033\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014genuine and important conversation happening right here. Are we to believe, then, that it simply becomes a choice for a Minister to not answer a question, given that te reo is an official language, similar to New Zealand Sign Language? I understand the point that Mr Bishop is trying to make, that, yes, I\u2019d too be open to the person asking the question to repeat the question so that we all have time to pick up our translators; agree. But are we to understand that it is simply a choice not to answer a question that is asked in an official language of this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee7c7e4efec242aabd9fe2c9b6b88d54\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think the member confuses two things: one is that there\u2019s no question that te reo is an official language of this country. The fact that it is not a language that is shared with any fluency by a large number of members of the House is neither here nor there. The use of it is permitted. When it comes to the answering of a question, there\u2019s nothing new in this; it has always been the case. In fact, Speakers\u2019 ruling 199/4 makes it very clear the parameters for Ministers able to decide to not to answer a question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022691b7fb20aef4863a11e2a85efcb2a30\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The concern I have here is\u2014you\u2019re quite right to point out Speakers\u2019 ruling 199/4, but also Speaker\u2019s ruling 199/3 says that where a question is clear, there\u2019s an expectation that Ministers answer it. It\u2019s unfortunate how this has played out, however, where there were the words \u201Cpoint of order\u201D used, it\u2019s been ruled that it was a comment, but nevertheless the response that was part of that suggested that that Minister\u2014perhaps others\u2014will not answer questions if they are asked in te reo. Now, I\u2019m not sure that it\u2019s useful to continue that, so I wonder if you would reflect on it, perhaps watch it over again, because it would be an unfortunate reflection on the House if that was what is suggested, backed up by the suggestion that Ministers don\u2019t have to answer. We shouldn\u2019t go down that track. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022914f39481cae45d6a99dbdf8269a3eea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I take the member\u2019s point on board and will, in fact, reflect a little further on it. It\u2019s one of the penances you do in this job, reflecting on these things, so I\u2019ll go ahead with that and come up with whatever it might be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022514e2bad1cb54f18be61afdc27ede04d\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Just following on from the speaker who has resumed his seat, the reality is that there was a slight delay in the translation, reflective of the rudimentary nature of the M\u0101ori language and my ability to make it sound more sophisticated in English.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c9b1389d2e64523bdd580172171fd37\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225992159fe6744ce3ae6d5649b46238d6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, we\u2019re talking about his one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286f17208c9424324a2d9edcdb83127b1\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b7f3aae916d454ea6dc62965ddbbd0c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m sure that\u2019s a wonderful piece of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264506fb075ed4b11a7b94b97df7b19df\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3c0df1bfb3345178e537bd72469c952\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I\u2019m just congratulating him on his self-congratulations inside of the point of order. It was quite remarkable. The Hon Kieran McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c504b991ff934899b3e19947138236aa\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, and I thank the Minister for his contribution. However, the issue that arose also from the suggestion from the Hon Grant Robertson that Rawiri Waititi be given the opportunity to repeat the question, that all members in the House therefore would have notice, and would be able to listen to the translation\u2014however, the response was that Ministers don\u2019t need to provide an answer, and now we are where we are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e9592c35b374bd8b147bd8a5b30f9f5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it was two parts to the point. I answered the first part. If the member wants to ask the question again, then I think we can progress by doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd4dd59df1d94674af858ecb7bf3ddf2\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. With respect, e te P\u012Bka, just again to seek clarity from this party\u2019s perspective, and the 70 percent of our population who are under the age of 40 who k\u014Drero e te reo M\u0101ori, if we need to bring about a different practice, because this is a practice that we\u2019ve had since we came in three years ago, Te Ururoa had\u2014that we\u2019ve had Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori enjoy, and other members across the House. Is the decision today\u2014and it may need to go up for reflection for the Business Committee\u2014that we need to indicate when we\u2019re transferring language, or is there going to be a different set of protocols applied around\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fffd666866d149cba0c3c9f1bcff2db1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not a decision that\u2019s been made here at all. I\u2019ve said that I will reflect on how we might make things work more smoothly, because you might notice that most of the people in this House are not reflective of that 70 percent\u2014in age, if nothing else\u2014so if we are to get answers to questions, we need to have something that works. That\u2019s certainly my desire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204e88ec18fce46d9994988e405386ee4\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022040551e0d62b4b5aadd9683c0b5249ff\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Marama Davidson\u2014last point of order on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299515c33e0a143d3a648d03e88853d2d\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s just in relation to Speaker\u2019s rulings 199/3. It\u2019s very clear that where the question is clear, there is an expectation that Ministers will answer it unless they consider it not to be in the public interest to do so. So I\u2019m just seeking clarification on whether it is not in the public interest, or what is the ruling that you are calling to allow Ministers to have that choice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5c08910c1904a4c8d14c2ea854c6e3e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The ruling stands, but it is not for the Speaker to determine the interpretation of that ruling. Do we have another supplementary on this question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288adaddf4b194b53a9b797b157c51ce0\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Just for clarification, Mr Speaker, and your guidance: is it a repeat of the first question, or are you saying that I have to move on to the next question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f310e75216ed4f1ab4cbdcaf18d66f93\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, look, I\u2019ll tell you what: you make the choice. Is that OK? You can ask the first question again if you want, and that won\u2019t cost you your subsequent supplementaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230b98817e57844e6b0584b80cf6816b7\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: OK, first supplementary question: He aha t\u014D whakautu ki ng\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B e mahi ana m\u014D ng\u0101 tamariki rawakore e karanga ana kia heke te whika o ng\u0101 tamariki rawakore m\u0101 te pene, m\u0101 te hiki i te whiwhinga p\u016Btea, m\u0101 te ng\u0101wari o te hoko kai, me te m\u0101uiui \u0101rai?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E[What is your response to the groups that are working for underprivileged children that are calling for a reduction in the number of underprivileged people by the pen, by raising wages, by making it easier to buy food and medication?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022366efca7dcb64caaaa6fd96fad36ed2f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: If we\u2019re going to help all those people who are working with the poor, then the first thing we should do is uplift our economy, and leave no one out. That is the purpose and the focus of this Government\u2014that with the reforms that are going to go ahead, running a far more successful economy, and ensuring that no one is left out in housing, education, and health, and in terms of infrastructure access, then people will be uplifted; not like the disaster we had, where there were all those tens and tens and tens of thousands utterly forgotten, and the homeless went up by 35 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c96477b633e40e086f271cecdd562a5\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: He aha ng\u0101 kaupapa here a t\u0113nei K\u0101wana m\u014D te hiki i te whiwhinga p\u016Btea kia ng\u0101wari ai te utu m\u014D ng\u0101 pire o te kai me te penih\u012Bni i mua i te Kirihimete?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E[What are the policies of this Government for raising incomes to make it easier to pay for food and fuel bills before Christmas?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad7a55bdfaf54b998e43b7ee09f4a0b0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the first thing that is going to happen is that in parts of the economy the cost of petrol is going to go down, because the unfair charging that was imposed by a previous Government for no purpose while roading was a mess\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022749bd466aacc4109af1ae61e8dc8b51a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll hold you to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255e9237b75f2461eb45223c1dcce20b7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you are going to hold us to that\u2014you won\u2019t have to hold us to that because unlike that member, we keep our promises. We don\u2019t just make them and break them one after the other; we keep them. So those pricings should go down. It depends of course on all the international circumstances of supply chains to this country. And whilst I\u2019m at it, they left this country\u2019s fuel supply in a desperate circumstance when they wound back Marsden Point. We could be closed down within three days because of their short-sightedness, and Megan Woods is the person who never acted in international interests\u2014just allowed the refinery that is so critical to this country in an emergency to be not operating any longer. And on the bigger question of costs of living before Christmas, well there\u2019s only two weeks to go and we\u2019re going to do the best we can to signal to the market and through the Groceries Commissioner a fairer pricing regime going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1e6618a24254fedb206c8ddb60ed6d7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00226d02bab4fa1d461998c523546276bf8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d02bab4fa1d461998c523546276bf8e\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: How many Constabulary Full Time Equivalents does Police expect to need to train each year for the next two years in order to maintain the 1 to 480 ratio, and will the Government\u2019s commitment for \u201Cno fewer than 500 new frontline police within the first two years\u201D be in addition to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc401425cf2a4a8dacbdf29a03612abc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc401425cf2a4a8dacbdf29a03612abc\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m advised that the 1:480 ratio was never finalised, nor was it funded adequately by the previous Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af47c83429324b828c955574bf5a69b4\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Will the number of constabulary fulltime-equivalents be 500 higher in two years\u2019 time? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219320b44310c48958559fc479fdba0fc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The honourable member is asking a question. I didn\u2019t even hear it. Can you do that again? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f67c952f87654060b7092a4252858d5f\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Will the number of constabulary fulltime-equivalents be 500 higher in two years\u2019 time? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c27a12c10b1842179c3370f05978dd09\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in the police, numbers matter, and we\u2019re committed to the coalition agreement that we have with New Zealand First. They delivered 1,800 additional police officers, and they\u2019re now committed to an additional 500. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228863028d3974b78a274b6f6b2b91f65\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. We\u2019ve had two questions to the Minister of Police and he hasn\u2019t answered either of the questions. One of them was a primary question on notice. If you go and have a look at the primary question on notice, it was: \u201CHow many Constabulary Full Time Equivalents does Police expect to need to train each year for the next two years in order to maintain the 1 to 480 ratio,\u201D and will he commit to there being \u201Cno fewer than 500 new frontline police within the first two years\u201D. He didn\u2019t answer that. That was a primary question on notice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6dd867dc93540f8814d5574492d9e98\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, he did. He actually said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b40161a55e5f470898ff78c5c811925c\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232141d15eef844fea5edb97077c2494b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, just a minute. What he actually said was that he didn\u2019t agree that the 1:480 ratio was ever funded. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa1adfee434b4a70876536234b9f6ce5\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014which gets to the premise of the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022902d8a5519ce46909aa993022abb24a3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That would seem to be a reasonable answer. But, Mr Bishop? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227311a66353b349cab9b12a8a9f23d7a6\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: No, you made my point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a888c3c2296c477db014a2715cd7db04\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239c5fce76b624483a32ccf68d81096cd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question would have had to have been authenticated. Therefore, you have accepted that the question is valid; therefore, you should accept\u2014you should require the Minister to provide an answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bdcfc5a03d246df8d2c96b3599e7e23\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, no. Many times, there are questions that are asked in this House that the argument\u2014the authentication has been run and not necessarily accepted by the Minister who\u2019s answering the question. Now, what I do is irrelevant here. What he says is what the House gets as an answer in addressing a question. I\u2019m sorry that that\u2019s the way it is. It\u2019s not changed from when other Ministers were on the other side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d384ab58639e423198f1cb6f5c6c9d03\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I recall a previous shadow Leader of the House asking a then Speaker whether or not a Minister could stand up and simply say \u201CRhubarb!\u201D in answer to a question, because at that point the Speaker had ruled very similarly to what you have ruled today\u2014that simply standing up and giving an answer was sufficient to address the question. So I once again raise the point of order that was raised by the then Hon Gerry Brownlee to the then Speaker\u2014I can\u2019t remember which Speaker it was at the time\u2014as to whether or not that continues to apply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf2114b0c47344f0b4ceaa8e8f7045a5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I can assure you that the Hon Gerry Brownlee got a very unsatisfactory answer at that time, and I\u2019m sorry I can\u2019t give you a better one now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b83535136e1c4584adc6415121df573d\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: A further point of order\u2014a further point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4a7f6c62cad46009e1513da59b79aa9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, we\u2019ve got David Seymour\u2014point of order, David Seymour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228164777832b54e21a1c322f9e53a98a2\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ve got some sympathy for the point that Chris Hipkins is raising, but if he thought it was important, he should have raised it at the time, not one or two questions later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f006448720d64463a547f10cac5cb886\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that advice. The Hon Grant Robertson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f5240402d4d4fb6a4b103d472d0b4b1\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, acknowledging the ruling you\u2019ve made, how was Mr Mitchell\u2019s answer to the primary question an answer to the second leg of the primary question? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bad34172be44196b553636d5484e4ce\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can you say that again. Sorry, I didn\u2019t pick it up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022779338c955b646a58b66154433e87b80\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. How was the answer that Mr Mitchell gave to the primary question an answer to the second leg of the question? The first leg of the question indeed was about the ratio. We may differ on whether or not that was addressed, but the second part of the question was most definitely not addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d9018c2823e444cb060c9ed5d27cd3e\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225640d916103840d397ecb1dfff63fda2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I thought he had actually said that he expected for that to be the number. But if I\u2019m wrong\u2014the Hon Chris Bishop? The Hon Ginny Andersen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202184ea01df24deaaf81542c108e0b14\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that 500 additional police officers over two years is not enough to even replace attrition, and is he comfortable overseeing a reduction in front-line numbers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235a9b54aecd44300918a03b01d5f1c0d\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the 500 is additional police officers. The challenge that we\u2019ve got as an incoming Government is that it\u2019s become very apparent to us that the police have got big challenges around recruiting. The recruiting pipeline, there\u2019s pressure on that; we\u2019ve got the Australians here recruiting our police officers; we\u2019ve got a lot of officers coming up to retirement age. So she should understand that there\u2019s challenges there, but the good news is the police remain committed to delivering an additional 500 police officers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220966160acee841e1a12dc8809f0d2409\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How can the New Zealand public have confidence in him if he expects to oversee an overall decrease in constabulary front-line numbers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3f1c4efb21742e9a7a63fa910f0f40e\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they can have confidence in me and this Government because we take public safety seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dbb5c9c6f344bebb660b02834e04302\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he expect New Zealanders to feel safer with fewer police on our streets, and, if not, what is he going to do about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bebd60cb16e4de5b6c2d24b38957d82\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s not going to be fewer police on the streets, number one. Number two, police officers are actually going to be on the front line serving the communities that they work in, and, number three, you\u2019ve got a serious Government now that actually takes public safety seriously, and the country\u2019s going to be safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e49599176b6e4cc09fec2c77d034d267\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u002296bc63a5173948cda12cfb2ca2934e86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296bc63a5173948cda12cfb2ca2934e86\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What reports has he seen on policing in recent weeks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae1cbc21bfd844a88376abcb0295a8f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae1cbc21bfd844a88376abcb0295a8f7\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Very good question. Police have done some outstanding work recently. This has included Operation Shadow in Hamilton City and the wider Waikato region, targeting illegal street racing offenders. Police have made 12 arrests, issued 220 infringement notices, and suspended three licences in response to road users blocking roads and exhibiting unsafe driving behaviours. There were seven arrests made for excessive breath alcohol, two for disorder, one for driving while suspended, one for a breach of home detention, and another had an existing warrant for arrest. I know and the police know that our communities are fed up with this behaviour, and I congratulate police for their outstanding work. Police said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CWe want to send a message to anyone involved in this type of behaviour that Police will work incredibly hard to hold you to account for any illegal activity\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279788af3b1df4417abe9165cadfaa071\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he received from police on the policing of gangs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200ab49613f154f8c9aca55cd332fe7dd\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I was very impressed by how police staff handled the recent gang tangi in Foxton. Police monitored the movements of gang members across the North Island roads and made it clear they had a strong presence and that law and order would be maintained. They made sure members of the public were able to go about their business freely and safely. I want to thank police for ensuring there were minimal disruptions to the public and that they were kept safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cc125aec6d14d37871bfbdd4dd27c77\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: Given his focus on public safety, is he concerned by any recent reports that he has seen on policing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022913cd22b9f2445b2b9e48bc0279024fa\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m very concerned about a report that was released last week. The report was released by the Committee for Auckland with Deloitte and Auckland Unlimited. It says\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CAuckland ranks only 124th in safety, marking a three-year decline and positioning it among the lowest-performing peer cities on safety and [the] bottom within Australasia.\u201D I am incredibly concerned that our biggest city and our economic centre is now one of the lowest ranked cities in the world for public safety. It is a stain on our nation and a terrible indictment on the record of the previous Government. This Government is committed to turning that around, supporting police, and improving public safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d40ee2907bf4d9380d1705e87d4a3a7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u00229f74c07f00ca4fd790f49227788ed8fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f74c07f00ca4fd790f49227788ed8fc\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: What changes, if any, is the Government proposing to the legislation that governs Oranga Tamariki?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad0875f49ae7442fbe3b447dd9432914\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad0875f49ae7442fbe3b447dd9432914\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The coalition agreement between National and ACT commits to repealing section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. Section 7AA was introduced as a way for Oranga Tamariki to honour the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi. While it might\u2019ve been well intentioned, the law has had some serious unintended consequences. That\u2019s because section 7AA creates a fundamental conflict between protecting the best interests of children on one hand and honouring the Treaty in the other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213fc0c65e7b3432da2a84af98f8abe5f\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will this change have on the services and supports Oranga Tamariki provides to M\u0101ori children and young people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e69997de7dfe4e2fbdaad99e598f4503\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing about this change will affect the support services and programmes that Oranga Tamariki provides for M\u0101ori. Repealing section 7AA is about ensuring the safety and wellbeing and the best interests of children and young people so that it\u2019s the paramount consideration of Oranga Tamariki. The Oranga Tamariki Act already has provisions which protect the rights of wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi, and I have also already made it very clear to officials that they should continue working with iwi and M\u0101ori organisations where this is achieving positive outcomes for young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253988def1ca04ea2a5da552b039790bc\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Given the ACT coalition agreement requires the Government to assess the quality of new and existing legislation and regulation, will she commit to doing a regulatory impact assessment on the impacts of removing section 7AA on M\u0101ori children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022732b6f93a9454ccaa71944d63d74f80e\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: As part of the coalition agreement between National and ACT, we have committed to repealing section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278755a5f83cf429da16c91c3be61e9e6\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The Minister did not answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cf83a6d22f042eabaadc22e5268127e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we could have a repeat of the question, but I thought that she did actually say what the coalition was prepared to do in relation to the question. [Interruption] OK, well, ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225524aedd08514ffb82d9b01fc54525a0\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Sure. Given the ACT coalition agreement requires the Government to assess the quality of new and existing legislation and regulation, will she commit to doing a regulatory impact assessment on the impact of removing section 7AA on M\u0101ori children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae236ba1f5104a33af7d03c1d718e7c4\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I repeat that as part of the coalition agreement between National and ACT, we\u2019ve committed to repealing section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act, and I wouldn\u2019t expect to receive that advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022789bbf43d9b04c38add731f48cdde520\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary, Mr Speaker? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9ff8dd501ab4e49bec231406b550d9e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on; we\u2019re out of control here. Is this a question or a point of order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228466cf3dc3c44906b9950cb08622a317\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022394648f9c9434005aab7351995184178\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please ask your supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dc3afebe65e47e9ad775e10902a6154\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f35e4e9799274ea7b57d968e6291e530\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, wait on; I\u2019ve misunderstood. Point of order, the Hon Willow-Jean Prime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb70af7158214f86b27885d77090f32d\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Again, the Minister did not answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295790a732d7141bb889c1e717c877d2c\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I listened very carefully and the Minister said, \u201CI would expect to receive that advice\u201D, which I imagined was her reference to a regulatory impact statement. I recommend the member asking the question try listening carefully. She might learn something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255d35490c0314613932a33142af3335d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just in any event, I think the response, given it was a question about the coalition agreement, was probably reasonable. Can I call on Kahurangi Carter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5c6671061744c06958193eb9c69500f\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by the Crown\u2019s acknowledgment in the Wai 2915 inquiry that the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi require the Crown to take active and positive steps to address the significant disparity in the proportion of tamariki M\u0101ori in care, and, if so, how do the proposed changes to Oranga Tamariki legislation achieve this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc0042ba6e2a4b23b66a791457e766ce\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: As I have stated in previous answers, nothing about this change will affect the support services or the programmes that Oranga Tamariki provide for M\u0101ori. The Oranga Tamariki Act already has provisions that protect the rights of wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi, and that will not change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee08ffeb10cc47d088b10517ef01aca0\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: The question is: what will the changes that the Minister is proposing mean for children who come to the attention of Oranga Tamariki?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218e537f1b70a4d16bef36208396ab82e\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The dilemma Oranga Tamariki faces between protecting the best interests of children and honouring the Treaty is causing harm. Section 7AA has resulted in M\u0101ori children being removed from safe, loving homes they\u2019ve lived in for years and being placed with family they may not know, because their parents or their caregivers may happen to be the wrong ethnicity. As Associate Professor Nicola Atwell of Otago University says, section 7AA has led to practice which is ideologically driven and neither child centred nor trauma informed. Ethnicity should not be a factor in deciding what is in the best interests of at-risk children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dfb67d749c8486c8ec826ea773b2e61\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: What other changes is the Government proposing for Oranga Tamariki?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdb1947253d9459ebb8c0e52d1b25441\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I believe there must be a greater level of public accountability within Oranga Tamariki for its performance. We need to put an end to finger-pointing whenever Oranga Tamariki fails. Better performance must start with accountable governance. Greater accountability will include creating a truly independent monitoring and oversight agency for Oranga Tamariki and will also improve attractiveness of caregiving to give caregivers the right to make everyday decisions about a child\u2019s life by default. In too many cases, the State care system is failing children and young people, and as the Minister for Children I\u2019m committed to creating a system focused first and foremost on a child\u2019s safety. We need to eliminate the \u201Csweep it under the rug\u201D attitude which has been pervasive in the State care system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8e9bf29ca9944538a69dfb171a2cd04\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A very long answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002208261c11023449539ff360932247e828\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022d623dca4eee747f18fe27e5208811799\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d623dca4eee747f18fe27e5208811799\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Does she stand by her recent statements in relation to fair pay agreements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022301c851b91f849cfa6b50c220b56801e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022301c851b91f849cfa6b50c220b56801e\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, especially regarding my comments that fair pay agreements (FPAs) would reduce flexibility, choice, and agility in workplaces; also, that to lift productivity and drive economic growth there needs to be flexible workplaces where employers and employees can agree on terms that suit their unique situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b4866553134501976eca08d1da5de0\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: In response to an earlier question, she stated that she hadn\u2019t received any advice from the Treasury. Does she accept that she received advice from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) that the removal of fair pay agreements would disproportionately affect women, young people, M\u0101ori, and Pasifika?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a116eef5e9a405bba9bfcb716e0c442\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I have not asked for advice on the costs and benefits of repealing the fair pay agreements from MBIE. What I have received is a cover sheet to MBIE\u2019s 2021 regulatory impact statement (RIS), which updates the sections of that RIS to reflect the proposal which is to return the fair pay agreement system to the status quo. To be clear, the regulatory impact statement from MBIE from 2021 recommended against introducing a fair pay agreement system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef16322581874ccc84581275456299d6\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that the regulatory impact statement cover sheet that she received from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment on 28 November 2023 states that the removal of fair pay agreements would disproportionately affect women, young people, M\u0101ori, and Pasifika?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022292bc406a6644cabad046a98646de1b5\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: What I accept is that the statement within the cover sheet to the regulatory impact statement has been taken out of a wider context where it suggests that the benefits of the fair pay agreements that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment mentioned only apply to employees within the scope of a fair pay agreement. To be clear, there have not been any fair pay agreements finalised, so no one is worse off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226313895780224476bc0bd69edfd35da0\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that on paragraph 13 of that RIS, it clearly states that depending on the sector and occupations where FPAs are concluded, they could disproportionately benefit some population groups covered, including women, young people, M\u0101ori, and Pacific peoples?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228edb99d4885f4810a9ef11272d9b4939\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: What I acknowledge is that that statement has been taken out of the wider context, which is that this cover sheet is an update to the regulatory impact statement which was against the fair pay agreement. What the statement suggests is that we\u2019re taking away the fair pay agreement bargaining process. There have not been any fair pay agreements signed, and so therefore anybody who was worse off is only in theory worse off, because there have not been any fair pay agreements signed. What this Government is committed to doing is making sure that we have a Government that benefits business and benefits workers. The best way to improve the conditions of all Kiwi workers is to make sure that we have high productivity. We reduce regulation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264d4a1108ff84f5a98d5cf019baabf1b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s good\u2014that\u2019s good. The Hon Chris Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e718b2020e74810ae4e2be56ff03b5c\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the 2021 regulatory impact statement she\u2019s referring to recommended against the introduction of a fair pay regime, and, if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248e2ba3e55654a2b8a50545b150c08f7\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I can. MBIE, in 2021, recommended against a fair pay agreement system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290620d1cfe9b4f7bbcaeb5f9b07431bb\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: The regulatory impact statement cover sheet, which she\u2019s referred to in her previous answer, states\u2014just to be clear on what we\u2019re talking about here\u2014in response to that question, she stated that in theory people covered by fair pay agreements would be\u2014[Interruption] this is a question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cef0c0f05c7d44d688bd9252552964cc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, there is silence while members are asking a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b37be0e1c534589a368151dfc0e56fe\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not a question; that\u2019s the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210747a0233b344b3bdbd77edcf264050\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That might be the case, but it\u2019s a rule of the House that when people are asking questions they get silence of the House. You got a point of order, the Rt Hon Winston Peters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f17189bdb2e04d14bdb49153d8df4a7c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, people are expected to turn up here ready to go and prepared. That was not a question. It didn\u2019t show any sign of becoming one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284214c5f829048c89889f454db5395c1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t\u2014well, yeah, OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022877208d5eaa3459baf6ee25e17a2fa28\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, throughout the course of today we\u2019ve had answers that have been completely out of order. You\u2019ve said you want things to flow, and I think points of order such as the one taken by the Rt Hon Winston Peters go against your desire for things to flow. If we want it to just be a complete free-for-all, by all means, Mr Speaker. But, you know, I thought you were playing the advantage on both sides there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220702d3339f674d1f881accaa860ab0d9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the mere fact that you have just given me that advice has sort of accounted to where we might have got to. You were very quick on your feet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218aee327d0654247a668f69afe394e21\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept, then, that if the fair pay agreements legislation which she intends to repeal was not repealed, in theory it would benefit M\u0101ori, Pacific, young people, poorer workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022568c2374f9e140dbac268387126d18da\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: No, because this Government believes that the fair pay agreement system would have made vulnerable workers worse off. This is because of disemployment effects where businesses who could not stomach the added cost to their businesses lay off workers or close up entirely or don\u2019t offer any more jobs. The best way to help vulnerable workers is to have a flexible labour market that works for all New Zealanders, where every business has the opportunity to employ more staff and have more money to pay their staff more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228af38fb43a9d40e89f92db5a33eee1a7\u0022\u003EAddress in Reply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fe1a82882707411e93a7f606e4c75971\u0022\u003EAddress in Reply\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000329\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 7 December.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcc4e81958ce419faacce8aa5b0fd5f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcc4e81958ce419faacce8aa5b0fd5f9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s clear from the question time today that members opposite are adjusting to their new situation. They\u2019re feeling a little uncomfortable about their new situation, and I think that New Zealanders around the country would welcome me reminding members opposite why they lost and why they no longer control the Government benches. That\u2019s because over their six long years, they managed to preside over an economy that worsened and made the outcomes for New Zealanders worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWe have had inflation out of control for more than 2\u00BD years, and the result for working people, for New Zealanders across the country, has been a cost of living crisis that rolled on and on and on. In the face of that cost of living crisis, we then had a Government who instead of doing the right thing and looking at what it could do to control that inflation, to reduce that inflation, instead decided to spend New Zealanders\u2019 money with wild abandon. It increased spending by dramatic amounts even while inflation roared on, and it spent that money on wasteful things; on projects that New Zealanders would not have prioritised but which were political projects and ideological projects for the members opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhat that party opposite refused to do at any juncture was reduce the income taxes that New Zealanders were paying. Even while inflation pushed people into higher tax brackets\u2014even while inflation stripped people\u2019s bank accounts bare\u2014the members opposite continued to say there is never a right time for tax reduction. Well, the members on this side of the House know, because we spent time with the working people who voted for change at this election, that New Zealanders want to be able to have a Government they can trust to be good stewards not only of taxpayers\u2019 money but of the economy in which we all play a part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo in the address from this throne, we heard the commitments of our Government, and they are going to be to reduce the cost of living and deliver income tax reduction. And what we\u2019ve heard over these past two weeks is every reason under the sun why we shouldn\u2019t offer tax reduction. What I\u2019ve put to you is that there are some members of this House, some politicians, who believe that they can always spend New Zealanders\u2019 money better than they can. I am proud to be part of a Government that knows that New Zealanders who this week are worrying whether or not they can afford to pay for swimming lessons for their kids this summer, New Zealanders who are worrying about how they\u2019re going to pay off the credit card in time to put food on the table for Christmas, New Zealanders who are worried that the mortgage payments are now so high that they may need to consider selling their house\u2014I want all of those New Zealanders to know that they now have a Government who understands you can\u2019t just ignore the economy and spend and spend and spend. Actually, you have to deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo we\u2014we\u2014will make sure we bring Government spending under control and will prioritise the things that actually matter to working people: effective public services that are sustainable into the future and that provide good value; delivering the conditions and the infrastructure that allow private enterprise to flourish, that allow for greater innovation, that allow for greater productivity, that allow for more people to be hired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAnd we are at work. Already we have introduced 90-day trial legislation, which will mean that some people will have an employer give them a go where previously they were not prepared to. Already we have removed the bureaucratic fair pay agreement regime, which would have imposed mandatory union deals on workforces that didn\u2019t even want a bar of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI am at work. And I tell you, it is a solemn thing when you get given the Government books as the Minister of Finance and when you turn those pages and you find that actually we had a Government that committed to all sorts of things\u2014whether it was new Pharmac medicines, whether it was school lunches\u2014but didn\u2019t actually remember to put the money in the Budget to pay for those things into the future, and who did that on such a grand scale\u2014so many billions of dollars of commitments that weren\u2019t funded into the future\u2014that what I see in those books is a Government that was prepared to recklessly leave a hole in the Government finances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo the task ahead for our Government is not just the task that we campaigned on, which was to ensure we addressed the cost of living and took pressure off inflation and reduced the taxes that people pay. Our task is also to restore a sense of fiscal responsibility to Government. That means that we need to get rid of these bad habits that crept in by the big spenders on the other side. We will be needing to make changes to ensure that when any Minister on these benches appropriates money that belongs to New Zealanders, they ensure that it is spent in a way that is responsible\u2014and that when members opposite present policies or accounts, they can look people in the eye and say we are making this announcement today, confident we can fund it into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBecause it seems disgraceful to me that we had a Government that was prepared to sign up to long-term contracts for medicines but wouldn\u2019t put the money in the Budget to fund them. And yet they crowed\u2014they crowed about a supposed return to surplus in 2026\u201327. Well, smoke and mirrors. Because actually what they were playing was one big game of duck-shoving, in which, in fact, their surplus was never going to return on their watch. They were prepared to keep doing what they had already done three times\u2014move that surplus out\u2014because fundamentally they like to spend more than they earn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo we will be restoring the discipline that is needed to give New Zealanders confidence\u2014confidence actually that the things we fund can be afforded not just for the members of this House today but for the kids and grandkids who follow us. Because it is a reckless Government that drives the books into ongoing deficits, and that was the intention of the members opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI tell you what, it\u2019s been a solemn experience, and members here will have had the same experience, when you take that warrant as a Minister and you reflect on the responsibility that comes with it. When I think about that responsibility, I want to tell you about the people I have in my mind. I have in my mind the family whose door I knocked on in Johnsonville during the campaign. Parked out the front was a Wellington Combined taxi. As I came to the front door, the mum spent a bit of time coming to the door. She had two children at her feet. She said her husband was at prayer and she was going to bring him to the door because he really needed to speak to me. He came to the door and he said, \u201CNicola, I just want to know why the Government makes it so hard for people like me. I work my taxi shift and I work a cleaning shift, and my wife works at McDonald\u2019s. We work every hour that we can and we do everything to care for our children. But the rent keeps going up, the food keeps going up, and they take my taxes and they spend it on things I do not want.\u201D And I said to that man, \u201CYou need a change of Government, because it is time that you had a Government that will let you keep more of those earnings you work so hard for. It is time that you had a Government that won\u2019t play games with things like inflation, that will make sure the Reserve Bank does its job and gets it under control. It is time for a Government that treats your money with respect and doesn\u2019t just give speeches about nice things but delivers results, that sets targets, that has high expectations of public servants, that expects performance, that drives performance, that gets results for you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo when I go to work each day, I\u2019m not actually thinking about which piece of spin or which piece of lovely rhetoric the previous Government gave in a speech, whether it was the 100,000 KiwiBuild houses or the nuclear-free moments. I\u2019m thinking about what it\u2019s going to look like for that family in 2026. On this Government\u2019s watch, we will get the cost of living under control, they will have more money in their bank accounts, and we\u2019ll have public services that deliver good value effectively. And here\u2019s what\u2019s more: we will have the books in better order so that all of those things can be sustained into the future. It is time for responsible Government, for grown-up Government. The adults are back in charge, and New Zealanders say to the last lot: good riddance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8c80c7cb1124174a1237f0c87d3cf75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8c80c7cb1124174a1237f0c87d3cf75\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m going to start by just reading a text I received from someone I knew who was at the international airport leaving the country on 24 October. This person texted me to say, \u201CAm en route to the US\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c460c30b82ca4d938be2d1aed736f22f\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Were they a former Labour MP?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ec5ce0257a0446a81ee27bafec5c210\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: National staffer on leave. In brackets: \u201CPissed.\u201D Says, \u201CNational will take six weeks to sort coalition. Willis is\u201D\u2014a derogatory word\u2014\u201Cand can\u2019t do simple sums. Judith is a big threat to Luxon. Should be foreign Minister. Someone Christmas should be AG but won\u2019t make it and is National\u2019s only rainbow person. They expect to lose three electorates. Angee is nice but not quite good enough.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI share that with you as a reminder to the House to be careful about what you talk about in public spaces, including the Koru lounge, but also just to give some evidence of the fact that it\u2019s not just this side of the House that has no confidence in that Minister of Finance and her ability to be able to do simple sums. Turns out the people closest to her do not have the confidence in her as well. So I thought I\u2019d start on that very positive note.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EOn the next positive note, can I acknowledge the new Speaker of the House and all of the presiding officers. We hope for only one thing: that there will be fairness and clarity in the rulings that are undertaken here. If that is how things are conducted in the House\u2014and that is our expectation\u2014then the Speaker and all of the presiding officers can expect that this place will be orderly and that we will reciprocate our respect to the Speaker and to the Deputy Speaker and all of the Assistant Speakers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the absolute privilege that it is to be elected into this place as a member of Parliament. I want to thank the Kelston electorate for supporting me again. It is a privilege. It is the primary reason that I\u2019m here: to support the electorate that I have been elected to serve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EOf course, the ideal is always that we are elected into Government, but New Zealanders didn\u2019t choose us this time round, and of course we respect that decision. However, New Zealand should rightfully expect that we will be a strong Opposition, that we will hold the Government to account for working in the best interests of all New Zealanders, and that we will hold the Government to account for the promises they made, the promises that led to New Zealand electing them. And we will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EWhat a great opportunity that this Address in Reply debate provides for us to do just that. Before we even got to the Speech from the Throne, we had the coalition negotiations, and I want to speak to that a little bit. It reminded me of a really bad circus I once took the family to, one where they were trying to balance multiple people on a bike, circling a ring, but each time they\u2019d go around, someone or multiple people would fall off. The audience got increasingly nervous. Were these people going to be OK? Is this going to result in someone getting hurt and an ambulance needing to be called? Were these professionals? Did they know what they were doing? And what had we just bought tickets to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI think there are a number of New Zealanders who bought tickets to this political circus asking themselves the same question right now. After the coalition bandaged up and finally managed to get through the negotiations, we started to get hit with the early musings of what were their priorities. At that point I was starting to wonder whether the Government were deliberating focusing on issues far removed from the cost of living issues as a strategy to take attention away from the number of issues that they have campaigned on: \u201CLet\u2019s repeal smoke-free legislation. Let\u2019s get rid of te reo M\u0101ori names for Government agencies. Let\u2019s take away any bonus for te reo - speaking public servants who may be undertaking additional duties in their workplace.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI was confused. How were those things going to help us as a country get back on track? How was bashing M\u0101ori, banishing te reo M\u0101ori, encouraging social and racial division, and making moves to increase the uptake of smoking in Aotearoa New Zealand going to help New Zealanders pay for their bread and butter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThen it became even more confusing. The first move in the House this week is to get rid of fair pay agreements, extend 90-day trials, remove the Reserve Bank\u2019s dual mandate to focus on keeping inflation down whilst not taking their focus off employment\u2014and just keep in mind that Australia has just moved to put that mandate in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ESo apparently, putting jobs on the line, pushing towards a world where more Kiwis can find themselves unemployed, equates to supporting New Zealanders with the cost of living. I thought the Speech from the Throne might help to provide more clarity, but, yeah, nah. Instead what we got hit with was the biggest demonstration of gaslighting a nation that we as Aotearoa New Zealand have ever faced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ELook at some of these examples that I just pulled out: \u201CIt is the people outside Parliament who will be the Government\u2019s priority in decisions over the next three years.\u201D So you will start off by making legislative changes that put at risk their ability to work and provide for their families? It wants \u201Cpeople to see demonstrable, measurable results that make their lives easier and helps them to get ahead.\u201D So then the Government moves to get rid of regulatory impact statements so that New Zealanders can\u2019t see what the impact or benefit or losses might be to them through the legislative changes? And then: \u201CHaving 11 percent or one in nine New Zealanders of working age on a main benefit means too many people are dependent on the efforts of their fellow citizens instead of being self-supporting.\u201D While they are at it, they are thinking, with the two other strategies, \u201CLet\u2019s put the boot into beneficiaries in the good old-fashioned way, including all of those on main benefits with a disability or health condition so that New Zealand has someone to blame for these crappy changes and the crap results that are likely to ensue.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EMany people have been saying outside this House\u2014and I\u2019m going to add my voice to it\u2014that this Government is looking like the most backward, regressive, divisive Government that we have ever seen as a country. I absolutely agree with that. What concerns me is that there a number of communities that will be impacted by these regressive changes more than others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EOn behalf of our Labour Pacific caucus\u2014because we have a Pacific caucus\u2014I want to acknowledge one of New Zealand\u2019s most prominent Pacific health leaders, Sir Colin Tukuitonga for going on record and saying it as it is. He said, \u201CI really don\u2019t want to work with this Government. I have no confidence. They are not going to treat Pacific people well and I want to be free to speak up and speak out.\u201D Sir Colin Tukuitonga is absolutely right with what he is saying. And to follow that up, I want to quote Dame Luamanuvao Winnie Laban, who once said\u2014in fact I think she said it more than once\u2014that \u201Cif you are not at the table, you are on the menu.\u201D And right now that is where the Pacific community and many of the other communities that are going to be impacted by the negative effects of that Government\u2019s policies are sitting\u2014on the menu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EVery genuinely, it does scare me. I don\u2019t get the sense, despite the previous speaker\u2019s attempt to try and make it sound like she was in touch, that the Government actually cares about New Zealanders. I don\u2019t get the sense that they have an understanding of the reality and the lived experience of the most vulnerable New Zealanders. We all clearly got the sense in the lead-up to the election that there were certain sectors, certain New Zealanders, that that Government had in mind when they were proposing their policies, and the ones that lose are vast majority of New Zealanders; every other New Zealander that doesn\u2019t sit in those rich-list groups that that side of the House has very obviously demonstrated their support for over the course of\u2014actually, not just an election campaign, not just through the Speech from the Throne but over the course of decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI may have paid once to go to that really bad circus that one time and I won\u2019t be going back, but I have no doubt that if the Government continues on the trajectory they are on\u2014and they will\u2014New Zealanders won\u2019t just be pledging to forego tickets to the next show; they will be wanting to leave the show early and asking for a full refund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022439be4d3a7464d48a589dfc31ab6e1f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022439be4d3a7464d48a589dfc31ab6e1f5\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Let me start by saying it\u2019s a privilege to be here in Parliament, and I hope every member of Parliament feels the same way. Can I congratulate you, Mr Assistant Speaker O\u2019Connor, on your appointment to this role and say how much we look forward to working with you, and with the Rt Hon Gerry Brownlee as our Speaker. If the last week or so is anything to go by, the House will be able to flow freely. It\u2019s a place of robust debate and it\u2019s where we test out ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWith that in mind, it didn\u2019t take very long for nasty Labour to come back, did it? Carmel Sepuloni was on her feet, talking\u2014making up, actually, some text message of fake news somebody happened to send her with such intricate detail from the Koru lounge, from a drunk person. What absolute rubbish! But I\u2019ll tell you the problem we\u2019ve got with the Labour Party\u2014and we\u2019ve been there. We know what it\u2019s like. It\u2019s hard to accept that you\u2019ve been rejected by the public\u2014we were there for six years. And what we have heard or will continue to hear is that actually nothing is wrong\u2014the public got it wrong, and actually they\u2019ll change their minds very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ECarmel Sepuloni actually reminded me of Chris Hipkins. It\u2019s a little bit like that story I used to tell my kids\u2014you know, the little engine that thought it could: \u201CI think I can, I think I can.\u201D, and then the public said \u201CYou can\u2019t.\u201D And now they\u2019re over there not sure what they\u2019re doing. Carmel Sepuloni said she\u2019d been to that circus once and she\u2019d never go again. Sorry, Ms Sepuloni, you\u2019ve got to go back to the Labour Party caucus every single week, because I think that\u2019s where the circus is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ECan I say on behalf of my colleagues that we are very proud to have formed what will be a strong and stable Government. Carmel Sepuloni says she thinks about those who have the least, the poor in society. The bit that she forgot to say is that over six years, those poor people, the vulnerable she\u2019s so worried about, are worse off today than they were six years ago. It is an obligation on this Government to grow the economy and help people to help themselves so they get ahead, and with New Zealand First and with ACT in coalition, the first coalition Government ever formed in the history of New Zealand where three parties sign up to a deal together, we are focused on what needs to be done and we should be judged on what we deliver, not \u201CI think I can, I think I can, I hope I can.\u201D And, of course, Labour never did\u2014they couldn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ECan I thank the Rt Hon Prime Minister Christopher Luxon for the confidence he has shown in me and all of our caucus in asking us to work very hard on behalf of New Zealanders. I\u2019m extremely proud to be given the opportunity to serve as a Minister in this Government. And as with every single other Minister in this Government in National and ACT and New Zealand First, we pledge to work hard for New Zealanders and put their interests first and deliver for them, not just put out press releases about houses that nobody can live in or under, not just put up roading cones around the country, but to do the hard work and deliver for Kiwis to get the country back on track and make sure that, actually, they are better off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI have been given agriculture as a portfolio and it\u2019s one of the best portfolios you could have because of its absolute importance to New Zealand and the New Zealand economy. Every morning, all around New Zealand in every part of the country, hard-working men and women get up, they put on their gumboots, they get on their tractors, they go to milk the cows, they work hard because they care about their land and they care about their animals, they care about their communities, and they are the heavy lifters of the New Zealand economy. And, actually, if you have a look over time, this place\u2014they say there have been fewer members of Parliament than there have been All Blacks but if you actually look at the All Blacks, a team that all New Zealanders can be proud of, over the history of it the number of farmers that have served as our top sportspeople in itself talks to the importance of rural New Zealand to the fabric of society in New Zealand. And to anybody in this House that doesn\u2019t understand that when rural New Zealand does well all of New Zealand does well, and when the rural economy is strong the New Zealand economy is strong, they will be on that side of the House because of all the things that Labour did to our farmers over six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWe have a strong team in the Government. Our rural team, Nicola Grigg, Andrew Hoggard, and Mark Patterson; a rural team to go out and deliver on the commitments we made before the election\u2014because we trust farmers\u2014to get Wellington out of farming, to stop Wellington trying to run farms, to focus on outcomes, not process. To trust farmers and work with them to find the solutions because they are committed to meeting their environmental obligations\u2014they want clean water, the same as everybody else in New Zealand\u2014to meet their climate change reduction obligations sensibly, not closing down farms and putting people out of business. On behalf of the National-led coalition Government, can I thank those men and women of rural New Zealand for the hard work that they do, and say they can be very proud of their contribution. Finally, after six years, they have a Government that backs and supports them, will stand behind them, and help lead in the great things they do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EFrom horticulture, where we are the best in the world at producing kiwifruit, and there is so much more that we can do. You know, the average kiwifruit grower gets more from their exports in international markets than kiwifruit growers anywhere else in the world and we thank them for that. In viticulture\u2014very important\u2014did you know, Mr Speaker, in the UK market, a very competitive wine market, New Zealand wine gets on average \u00A31 to \u00A32 more per bottle than anything else, which means our wine growers are not competing on price; they\u2019re competing on quality and they are winning there. I thank them for their hard work. In apiculture\u2014something we can be very proud of\u2014our beekeepers and others who produce m\u0101nuka honey that others around the world in Australia and elsewhere are trying to emulate and take that name, but the reputation of high quality of the great benefits of m\u0101nuka honey and all other honey that comes from New Zealand is the reason those prices are so high.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ETo our sheep and beef farmers, who, actually, probably have done it hardest over the last six years under a Labour Government and then a Labour - Green Government where it\u2019s very, very hard. We have farmers who don\u2019t know whether or not they can survive the next winter, let alone whatever else Labour had in store for them. To tell them that we value them, we\u2019re going to work hard to get costs down on their farms, because the New Zealand economy needs sheep growers and beef and wool, we need that desperately. And to our dairy farmers, who from time to time have had a bad rap from people who want to use their hard work politically: thank you for what you do. Without the contribution of the primary industries, our economy would be poorer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ETo the foresters, those who invest in forests, who grow trees, and those who process the wood: as a Minister of Forestry\u2014and a previous Minister, Shane Jones\u2014we\u2019re going to work hard to make sure that everybody in New Zealand knows the importance of the contribution of forestry to the New Zealand economy, and that people plant trees because of the value of wood, not because the Labour Government told them they would give them bits of paper called carbon credits that would be worth more than the wood in the future. You know, we want people to be growing trees, we want to be processing that wood in New Zealand, adding value, creating jobs, and the New Zealand First -National - Act Government will deliver upon that. We\u2019re going to do this by focusing on the rules and regulations that Labour forced upon farmers to put costs up to levels that now they cannot make money. We\u2019re going to focus on better rules, fewer rules, on the outcomes, so that our rural sector can be as strong as we need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EFinally, I\u2019m given the privilege of being the Minister of Trade, a very important role because as we produce enough food for 400 million people around the world to get 10 percent of their diet from New Zealand, we have to sell it. You will see an unrelenting focus\u2014a focus that New Zealand has never seen before\u2014from this Government on growing exports by value. We\u2019re going to double that over 10 years; the building blocks will be put in place now. We\u2019re going to lead more trade missions around the world to help our exporters find new markets and we will judge the success of those missions not on the number of meetings they have but on how much more they will sell. We\u2019re going to make more of the agreements we have in place and negotiate more, and I will be on a plane on Monday of next week going to India, the very first meeting. Do you know, the Labour Government said it was a priority for them? It took them virtually 4\u00BD years to get anywhere near India and they\u2019ve been there two or three times this year. It\u2019s a shame they didn\u2019t go last year or the year before. Well, actually, within the first hundred days before Christmas, we\u2019ll be there showing India why the relationship that we share with them is a strategic priority for this Government. There are many great things we can do together in India and Indians in New Zealand, but the first thing we have to do is rebuild the harm to the relationship that was done under the Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EFinally, can I thank the people of the Rotorua electorate for having confidence in me and giving me an opportunity to continue to serve for them. The time of the last six years of the talk about how you\u2019re better off because we are nice to people is over. We\u2019re going to roll our sleeves up and actually deliver for the people of the Rotorua electorate, from Te Puke and the kiwifruit through to Rotorua. We\u2019ve made commitments to close down those homeless motels that people were being dumped in from all around the country and they were languishing; it was harming them, it harmed the reputation of our city. It\u2019s no wonder the then Prime Minister Chris Hipkins never came to Rotorua during the campaign. He was ashamed. I\u2019m not ashamed of Rotorua. It\u2019s a great place, full of great people. We will be fighting hard for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec11c513a5d242608cdab7871ab32fa8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec11c513a5d242608cdab7871ab32fa8\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Rural New Zealand is back. ACT is back alongside the collective rural caucus\u2014they are back\u2014and farmers are celebrating. We all came here to this place to speak our truth, the way in which we all see it, to share in a contest of ideas and have them canvassed, have a full and frank debate. As a rural advocate, a farmer, I am certainly one of those people. I came here, ACT came here, the farmers came here unapologetically to speak to the issues affronting the rural sector without pause, without fear, without equivocation, but with pride and a respect for the men and women that feed a nation; her people. For that, I say they deserve forthright representation, they deserve our loyalty, they deserve our respect, for without them we are a country economically destitute; we are a country half starved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EFor six years\u2014perhaps more\u2014rural New Zealand had been in a state of emotional decline. Many had suffered the left\u2019s farming illiteracy. But there\u2019s hope on the horizon. Real optimism has returned to the rural sector. The National - ACT - New Zealand First Government\u2014we have heard those folks. We are here to deliver to those in the sector; they deserve no less. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EFrom previous vanity projects, utopic or utopian ideas, or burdensome regulation, those former Government handbrakes will be a thing of the past, and in quick order. This Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223565905077894bed8975681620196ee9\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Are you reading your speech?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287ed6bb7dfd1445b979719b32723c938\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you could read it for me if you like. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWe heard the drive for change. Our rural caucus had consulted with the parties. All three parties had listened, offered to discuss the problems, and have them defined. Before solutions were sought, we stressed the point, the need for cost-benefit analysis and understanding on farm regulations to give farmers certainty, not theatricality nor piety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThere is much to fix. Whilst I absolutely refuse to politicise mental illness, while I absolutely refuse to politicise suicide, the terrible havoc and loss it leaves on rural communities is enormous. It is felt especially by those in small, tight-knit communities. Sadly, this is becoming more common-place and it must be reversed. We must not forget that for the last three years, the world ground to a halt. Our country ground to a halt. COVID pushed pause on almost everything and everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EYet farmers, rural New Zealanders\u2014we persisted. We kept working. When the rules of nature halted so many, they persisted. They kept working to feed a nation and to help feed the world. This Government, we recognise that reality. We know that for many who wouldn\u2019t or couldn\u2019t, farmers kept going. In spite of all the challenges and in spite of the former Government, farmers were good for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225124b7ed32b84741911c2277ad7702fb\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Hear, hear!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228f4a7143c2648c0b73460cad90b148d\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ENot those previous unworkable, untenable outcomes that only knew piety, not practicality. We need to balance places like the National Animal Welfare Advisory Committee with practical people, not those that were wet behind the ears, but those who have experience on farm\u2014vets, farmers\u2014who understand outcome and the rigour of farming practices, not theorem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWe will return the live animal export trade. Trying to reconcile that is worth half a billion dollars to this country. Imagine what you could do with half a billion dollars and employ the logic of a gold standard\u2014giving certainty to farmers, certainty to markets\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022281b603022c94b989f6bc8061806f3ab\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: How are we going to do that, Mark?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be86d59b5d1449ed8f0c1f4372d80491\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014must be done; clearly evident. I\u2019m not going to engage with that now. In coalition going forward, we all agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EFarmer morale has been at an all-time low. How do you reconcile that? I\u2019m fascinated by the fact that we\u2019ve had high payouts and yet we\u2019ve got farmer morale at an all-time low. We all see this. We acknowledge it. This coalition Government knows that good lawmaking is tantamount to good outcomes, that farmers and their canvas\u2014it is their work; it is his work; it is her work. This is marked in inputs to outcomes, where weather, markets, costs on farm are meted out to farmers as their daily rigour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EFarmers in this building, we all collectively recognise the absolute importance of sensible, pragmatic lawmaking\u2014something for so long we have missed out on\u2014that achieves tenable outcomes on farm, something that the previous Government, and I have to stress this point, were so often four sheets to the wind on. I am drawn into thinking of a story that highlights the spirit of Kiwi farmers. It is our tenacity; it is our guts; it is our pride. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ERecently, I attended the RRT gathering, an acronym for the post-cyclone rapid response team day out in Northland. Some were in tears, many shed in their gratitude. A community embraced its people. I heard of a chap that illustrated to me the absolute epitome of rural New Zealand, absolute Kiwi pride. He had travelled ill with cancer for four hours from Kait\u0101ia to be part of that day. He battled on with his condition; he battled on with his post-cyclone recovery, and yet he still managed the time to be there for himself, for his community. Surely there is no greater conviction, no greater belief, in rural communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EI say to the members of this House, rural New Zealand is full of fantastic people, driven people, capable people, and this Government sees it. It is my hope all parties will come in this House to know this as a truism, to know this as a fact. For to do any less is what I say to them is to have turned their back on rural New Zealand, and this is something we must absolutely not do. After all, I\u2019m sure everyone would agree, everyone here eats; we are a nation ever hungry and we must never ever forget that reality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00221e5bfa8868d0416b8e9df30b4e47d392\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e5bfa8868d0416b8e9df30b4e47d392\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E He caught me by surprise! He had a couple minutes left on the clock, so I\u2019ll have to get stuck into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve heard many things today, and I will acknowledge the fact that, yes, New Zealanders did vote for change at the last election. But I question: did the change they voted for include more people smoking to enable the funding of tax cuts for rich New Zealanders, because that\u2019s not what I\u2019m hearing back. I don\u2019t think that New Zealanders voted for that. And did New Zealanders also vote for the kind of change that will deliver lower wages and worse working conditions for hard-working New Zealand workers, right before Christmas? Did they know that\u2014that that would drive it down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo I think it\u2019s important to note that the first two pieces of legislation that this new Government brings to this House under urgency is targeted on jobs and employment, making sure that unemployment is removed out of the Finance Act, and also driving down workers\u2019 wages through repealing fair pay agreements. They are the first two pieces of legislation out the gate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EAnd I ask you, what does this say for the leadership of the National Party? What does this say for the leadership of the National Party, when some of the most meanest stuff that\u2019s in their basket so far has been farmed out to some of their coalition partners? Shane Reti has sheepishly shoved the cigarettes and the lighter over to Casey Costello, giving her the delegation to have to look after this one while he can concentrate on improving outcomes for M\u0101ori. The fact that we have a M\u0101ori Minister of Health who is promising to improve health outcomes for M\u0101ori while delegating responsibility for more smoking for M\u0101ori to his coalition partners is an absolute stain on the name of the new Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESecondly, the other one that\u2019s been passed over is the fair pay agreements, slid over to Brooke van Velden today, to leave her to make the embarrassing statements such as \u201CWorkers will be worse off. They would\u2019ve been worse off under fair pay agreements.\u201D They\u2019re delegating those out. So, if this is the honeymoon period, then it\u2019s going to be one hell of a divorce, I can tell you. It\u2019s going to be a rocky old relationship if this is the courting period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo, let\u2019s take a close look at what\u2019s happening with fair pay agreements. In a cost of living crisis, we\u2019re hearing that Kiwis are stretched and they need more legislation that\u2019s going to be brought in that will do exactly the opposite of what they\u2019re trying to do. It will drive down wages and it will decrease the working conditions. It\u2019s really interesting to note that the OECD has put out a good report available online\u2014if anyone would like to check it out\u2014showing that productivity actually increases under fair pay agreements. Not only did the OECD agree but also so does the Treasury, who gave great advice, saying that the official advice was ignored by the Minister that Pasifika women, M\u0101ori, young people, disabled would all be adversely affected by the fact that fair pay agreements will be repealed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important to note that it\u2019s not just about good things for our workers, but it\u2019s actually good things for our employers. An interesting point that came up, that was obviously on Newstalk ZB with Nicola Willis last Thursday\u2014we talked about productivity and flexibility. And what Nicola Willis said on the radio\u2014and we just say, \u201CLook, actually, that would impose huge costs. It would reduce flexibility. It would actually be a step backwards for New Zealand and the flexible employment relations that workers enjoy.\u201D Well, what I would actually like to say is it does the opposite, because if we have a standard agreement across an industry, that means in those regions that are crying out for workers that need people in there, we can have workers go from one area to another with a standard agreement on what their wages and their conditions are. So research provides that it in fact increases productivity and increases flexibility. It stops them from being undercut by employers who offer lower wages and lower conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EA classic example, if you live in the Wellington region, would be our bus industry. We can all remember the \u201Cbustastrophe\u201D that occurred right here in Wellington, and that was exactly the opposite of what fair pay agreements would have done. So the Public Transport Operating Model, introduced by Steven Joyce under the National Government\u2014which was the privatisation of the public transport system\u2014enabled a contracting race to the bottom that meant lower wages and lower working conditions. Fair pay agreements would enable a standardised wage and a standardised set of conditions that would have meant that we did not have bus drivers leaving to become truck drivers; leaving to go to Australia\u2014and that is what the National Government is stepping away from, and it will be their basket to carry when we see things like this occur again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to pick up on the point around productivity, because when we don\u2019t have a race to the bottom\u2014as we had with the bus drivers in Wellington\u2014in areas such as manufacturing, we have employers that actually compete on things like better products, technology, improving the products and the way they\u2019re doing their intellectual property, skill development of their workers. Instead of having a race to the bottom, instead of having that type of competition, we\u2019re actually competing on smarts and having a better level of products marketed out in innovation to our global partners that we can compete on, instead of racing amongst ourselves to the bottom. Because all it does is it\u2019s a trickle-down approach that gets us nowhere. We\u2019re back in the 1980s, we\u2019re back on that old treadmill that National always brings us back to: the sad trickle-down that never sees those at the bottom get a drop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to touch on one other area today, and that is te reo M\u0101ori and the move away from M\u0101ori language and tikanga M\u0101ori. It\u2019s been a message loud and clear that\u2019s come across from this Government, and I would like to stand and say how disgusted I am with the approach that we\u2019ve taken. The fact that we have M\u0101ori heritage, M\u0101ori culture, and M\u0101ori language in New Zealand is what defines us from the rest of the world. I\u2019m proud, as a New Zealander, to be able to speak M\u0101ori; I find it to be an important part of my identity as a New Zealander. The fact that we introduced a new public holiday\u2014Matariki\u2014that was the first of our own public holidays here in New Zealand\u2014I\u2019m proud of that fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhen my kids came home and taught me about Matariki; told me about the names of the stars in the sky, I could see the pride in their faces when they talked about it. We were able to look up at the stars and reflect on loved ones that we had lost in the past year and tell those stories. Those are important parts of our national identity, and it makes me sad, upset, and disgusted that as a Government, we are stepping away from who we are as a nation. I think we need to set the standard by saying that we are proud New Zealanders, that we have a shared history, and the Treaty of Waitangi is part of our history. Yes, there will be debate, and it is healthy to have that debate. But to hide from it and to sweep it under the carpet is a sad indictment on us as New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI look forward to being able to continue to move in a way that we see better moves for us as a country, and I want to make sure that in the upcoming weeks, months, and years, we will continue to interrogate this Government\u2014as it struggles to find money for the tax cuts that it has promised New Zealanders, as we see that when the tobacco money runs out, as we see that there is no foreign buyers tax, and as we see that New Zealanders realise that the change that they voted for will not be delivered by this Government. It will be a circus. There are clowns in this circus, and they are performing their roles for the greatest spectacular we will ever see in New Zealand politics. As we watch the buck being passed, and as we see those at the very bottom\u2014those who struggle the most\u2014suffering as a result of the selfishness of this new Government, we will be there to make sure we fight for our people, that we fight for the fact that we have workers who deserve fair pay, workers who deserve fair conditions; that we have people who want to be able to live healthy lives, without having to have people capitalise on pushing tobacco. And as we have a country who is proud of te reo M\u0101ori, proud of tikanga M\u0101ori, and proud of who we are in Aotearoa, we will continue to call upon our partners, right across New Zealand, to continue to this fight, to say that we are not selfish. We do not just want more money for those who already have some; we will fight for those who need more\u2014and I am proud to be part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6ef8405864d4689ab0b66d4b429a54c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6ef8405864d4689ab0b66d4b429a54c\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0101tau e te Whare e noho tahi nei i roto i t\u0113nei taha o te tukunga p\u014Dti, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[Mr Speaker, thank you. All of us of the House that are sitting here together on this side of the election, greetings to all of us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EFirstly, to those of you who are new MPs, including my colleagues here in New Zealand First\u2014welcome. Believe you me, it is immeasurably more comfortable on this side of the House than on that side of the House, having suffered the misfortune of being on that side of the House more days than I care to remind myself. To erstwhile colleagues on that side of the House, it was a fateful and bleak day that the leader and I woke up in 2020 after a night of heavy contemplation in Russell and then realised that we were unemployed. Yes, there was the small matter of a gallon of red wine, as I remember\u2014that was celebrating whakapapa, the Dalmatian side. However, as a consequence of a very vigorous campaign and respect that we engendered within the electorate, New Zealand First is back and contributing to this coalition Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ETechnically, the Address in Reply debate is traceable back in terms of our parliamentary traditions to the House, where members of the House sought to change the content of the Sovereign\u2019s address. Now, years passed, and it\u2019s morphed into what we have in New Zealand at the moment, which is a broad, free-ranging debate in terms of the Government\u2019s agenda. So after three years of banishment and a period of self-reflection\u2014something that comes to me with great difficulty\u2014we have contributed to some key policy outcomes that are reflected in this speech, and I want to start with the first one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to bring rigour and common sense to the hysteria surrounding climate change. Climate change policies in New Zealand have been driven by a tiny minority with loud voices who have no conception as to the consequences of their narrow, shallow ideas on the day-to-day functioning of the economy. For those reasons, whatever work has been happening in the Ministry for the Environment\u2014not unlike Thomas Beckett, the \u201Cmeddlesome priest\u201D\u2014that is now stopped. The coalition agreement says that there\u2019ll be no more uncertainty as to the role of the emissions trading scheme (ETS) as the pivotal, paramount institution guiding us as we make the transition from our current emissions profile to a more sensible and defensible place\u2014but not at the cost of those legacy industries that give us our wealth, our wellbeing, and jobs. So for those of you buried in the Ministry for the Environment, working away on those policies: they belong to the old regime that now sit on the other side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, of course, the perfidy didn\u2019t just stop with ETS. We\u2019ve got the significant natural areas; we\u2019ve got the national policy statements pertaining to biodiversity\u2014they\u2019re gone. They will no longer have any legal impact in our rural economy, on our farmers, on our landowners\u2014squashing the bejesus out of people\u2019s property rights. Similarly, we will no longer have onerous, unworkable water regulations; not only unworkable, but completely destructive of the viability of the very industry that is our key contributor in terms of export earnings. Two national policy statements that will go the way of my dear friend David Parker\u2019s magnum opus: out the back door, into oblivion. And just to show that there are other areas that people want me to concentrate on, I am the Minister for Resources. I look forward to leading the debate changing the law, enabling gas and oil exploration, wealth development, to take place yet again in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ENow, just to ensure that the other side of the House feels that\u2019s a little bit unbalanced, mining is coming back as well. We most certainly need those rare earth minerals. In those areas called the Department of Conservation (DOC) estate, where it\u2019s stewardship land, stewardship land is not DOC land, and if there is a mineral, if there is a mining opportunity and it\u2019s impeded by a blind frog, goodbye, Freddy. We are going to extract the dividend from mother Nature\u2019s legacy on the DOC estate in those areas previously called stewardship land. Now, why is this important? If we do not have coal and gas continuing to contribute to our power system, we\u2019re going to have blackouts, brownouts; we\u2019re going to have a power system that lacks security, riddled with risk; and it\u2019ll diminish the status of our nation as a first-class, First World country. This side of the House is not taking that risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOf course we\u2019ll hear from the other side of the House, but 2030, Jacinda Ardern\u2019s aspirational figure, inversely related to reality, the majority of her legacy\u2014that will no longer be the case. We are not going to meet the 2030 dreamy, fairy-tale, aspirational figures that we\u2019ll be freeing ourselves of fossil fuels as a source of generating energy. We\u2019re going to deal with reality. We\u2019re going to have not only a plan but we\u2019re going to have some certainty for the providers of international capital who are going to help us develop our economy. If you look at what\u2019s become of our current account deficit, none of us can be lackadaisical. None of us can continue to spend the way that we have been, as has been evident on the other side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ECouple more things: we will have a strategic, fast-tracked piece of legislation in this House. One of the great lies about climate change is that, yes, apparently, it\u2019s a crisis. Name me one law that has changed in the last nine years expediting simplifying investors\u2019 ability to navigate the digestive tract otherwise known as the Resource Management Act and in a timely fashion secure resource consent, find the money, deliver the project. No one in this House can. With the development of our fast-tracked bill, where authority will lie with us the politicians\u2014no more unelected grandees who destroyed the aquaculture ambitions of Murihiku, who caused Ng\u0101i Tahu to squander the thick end of $2 million and not a single bit of kaimoana in the water. How are regions going to grow unless we give certainty to investors and hope to the people who want to continue to raise their children in these areas, go to church, play rugby, netball, support the local businesses? Stand by for the fast-track process where the authority rests with the politicians. Fast track for aquaculture, fast track for mining, fast track for energy, fast track for infrastructure. That\u2019s the future coming in your direction, and to people who want to boost productivity and resilience in New Zealand, you could not pick a better champion than my good self. Modesty forbids me to say much more!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also going to tame some of the ethos problems in the bureaucracy. As we go and dive further with the senior Minister of Finance, we are learning we have been living beyond our means for too long. This is not only a challenge for our broader societal concerns but it\u2019s a challenge for the leadership of the democracy. Two issues stand out: the debacle of Te P\u016Bkenga. As someone who loves the language, why have we used these beautiful words to describe the most fiasco-, snafu-orientated bureaucratic developments? It diminishes the language. Oranga Tamariki, describing that particular Government department\u2014should never have been given that name given the large number of children that have suffered. It ruins the quality of the language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIn this last thing, I would remind us: I was in this House when $1.8 billion, $1.9 billion was allocated for mental health. Not even Treasury or the gnomes who work in the audit department\u2014sadly, they\u2019re still chasing me for terrible falsehoods of the Provincial Growth Fund time\u2014can find a sliver of evidence as to how that money has improved the capacity of families and communities to look after themselves. So if there\u2019s ever an event that\u2019s an indictment on the people who\u2019ve held the health portfolio on that side of the House, it\u2019s the $1.8 billion that got poured down the orifice of the bureaucracy, supposedly going to give you and me and our wh\u0101nau better health outcomes of a mental character. The opposite has happened. But rest assured, your spirits will soar\u2014New Zealand First is back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00228ebec19fe9144e70bd1d7a903b86f3ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ebec19fe9144e70bd1d7a903b86f3ea\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, that contribution from that member who has just resumed his seat, Shane Jones, made for incredibly painful listening, talking about the thousands of young people who have marched in our streets asking our leaders to pay more attention to addressing climate change, depicting them as a tiny minority who\u2019ve been advocating for change, not to mention, of course, recommitting to mining on conservation land and a whole host of other policies designed to take us backwards as a nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EBut, Mr Speaker, let me begin my first contribution in this Parliament by congratulating you on your election as Speaker and all of our other presiding officers as well, and also extending a warm welcome to our new members of Parliament, whose maiden speeches we have been listening to as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been reflecting on the Speech from the Throne, because that, of course, is meant to be the contribution from the new Government laying out their vision, their vision for progress for us as a nation. They started off by saying\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThe new Government is committed to delivering; to getting things done. It wants people to see demonstrable, measurable results that make their lives easier, and help them to get ahead.\u201D Lofty goals, great aims, but what are they actually delivering in order to be able to achieve that? They then went on to say\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThe Government\u2019s aim is to improve outcomes for all New Zealanders, while leading a unified and confident country.\u201D Again, I don\u2019t think any of us on either side of the House would disagree with us wanting to achieve all of that, but the devil is in the detail, or the proof is in the pudding, as they say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo I listened on, hoping to hear of some vision as to how they would actually deliver on this, and yet the main cornerstone of their economic policy appears to be cutting spending on things like Auckland light rail, axing Industry Transformation Plans, the Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme, the Income Insurance Scheme, and, of course, delivering tax cuts for their rich mates. That is the cornerstone of their economic policy. Once again, we see the axing of investment in high-quality public transport networks to keep hundreds of thousands of people connected in our largest city while also reducing emissions and congestion\u2014back on the scrap heap, but yet building another 13 new roads of national significance somehow is not wasteful spending. Somehow, that\u2019s going to ease congestion and improve productivity. How? I don\u2019t know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EArguably, this election was a cost of living election. We heard from many who were struggling to put food on the table and, as the member Nicola Willis said earlier in this House today, families who were struggling to send their kids to swimming lessons. What in this Government\u2019s policy is actually going to deliver benefits to those people? When they talk about making lives easier, for whom, I ask? Their rich mates? The tobacco lobby? That\u2019s who is going to benefit from the policies of this new Government, not those families that they talk about, not those families whose doors they knocked on and stories they heard. Not one will benefit, because what this Government is delivering is tax cuts in deregulation. Well, I have news for them. The 80s called and they want their trickle-down economics back. The last 50 years has seen a dramatic decline in taxes on the rich across advanced democracies. This is nothing new. Thatcher tried it. Ronald Reagan stood and campaigned on it; so did Trump, and so did our new incoming Government as well\u2014all elected on promises of major tax cuts for top earners, arguing that freeing up money for the wealthy allows them to hire more workers, pay better wages, invest more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EHas it worked? No. It\u2019s been an abject failure. Wealth doesn\u2019t trickle down. All that happens is that the inequality gap widens, public services decline, housing is privatised, public transport is privatised, education is privatised, public transport declines, roads increase, and unemployment increases. Where have we seen all that before? 2008 to 2017\u2014the Key Government, and we\u2019re on the cusp of seeing all of that again. Not to mention that they\u2019re funding their tax cuts for their rich mates by repealing smoke-free legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ENow, the coalition agreements say that decisions will be based on data and evidence, and yet this decision to repeal what would have been globally leading legislation\u2014smoke-free legislation\u2014flies in the face of data, in evidence. We know that it will cost thousands of lives, that young people will be encouraged to take up smoking, and that it will result in $1.3 billion in terms of healthcare costs. But do they care? No. No, they don\u2019t. Their agenda will only benefit tobacco companies and their rich mates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003ESo, then, I looked for their social development and housing policies, thinking, \u201CWell, they slammed us for not doing enough even though we delivered over 13,000 public homes in our term in office, so surely they have some ingenious plan to clear the public housing register.\u201D Here\u2019s what they said, and I quote, \u201CTurning to social housing, the performance of K\u0101inga Ora is a concern. There will be a review of its finances, procurement, development and asset management practices.\u201D, and then some whinging about antisocial K\u0101inga Ora tenants. That\u2019s it. That is the sum game of their ambition to clear the public housing register. And then what about welfare and work? I thought, \u201CSurely, something about encouraging employment\u201D. All we see: sanctions, bringing back 90-day trials, repealing fair pay agreements that we know, and evidence tells us, will disproportionately benefit women, youth, Ma\u014Dri, and Pacific people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWhere is the ambition and vision? Nothing in the Speech from the Throne about supporting social services that play a significant role in supporting individuals, families, and communities. We\u2019ve seen the role they play time and again, whether it was during the pandemic or the severe weather events that we\u2019ve seen as well. Nothing ambitious to address the intractable issues that face us as a nation: child poverty, family and sexual violence, systemic discrimination; nothing about lifting the wellbeing outcomes of Pacific peoples or ethnic communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EInstead, just a lot of Ma\u014Dri bashing\u2014scrapping Te Aka Whai Ora, the Ma\u014Dri Health Authority, just because its very point is to address health inequities; looking to scrap affirmative action to incentivise te reo in the Public Service; pushing to scrap te reo names of Public Service agencies; introducing a Treaty Principles Bill, and I want to quote on that point Dame Anne Salmond, who said it better than I can ever put it. She said, \u201CFar from trying to reconcile different understandings of the Treaty, their text ignores or distorts the original promises. This is disrespectful, and arrogant. For a party that won just 8.6 percent of the vote in the recent election to attempt to rewrite a pact that involves Queen Victoria and her descendants as well as the rangatira and theirs is presumptuous in the extreme.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EIn these times of crisis, a new Government will be assessed on its ability to bring New Zealanders together. ACT\u2019s proposed approach to Te Tiriti will do the opposite. I agree with Helen Clark that it would \u201Crip us down the middle\u201D, and with Jim Bolger that it\u2019s a \u201Cbloody stupid\u201D idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EEverything that they are repealing, rehashing, and proposing will take us backwards as a nation. It will entrench inequity, and it will divide us. The thing is, they don\u2019t understand equity. Equality is about providing the same for everyone\u2014giving everyone the same resources and opportunities. Equity is understanding that we don\u2019t all start from the same place\u2014people have different circumstances, and equity seeks to remedy this by taking into account advantage and redistributing resources to then reach equal outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EWhile others have said before me that New Zealanders have voted for change, I don\u2019t believe that this is the change that anyone has voted for. Repealing smoke-free legislation, repealing everything that will actually lead to what they say they want to achieve, which is a unified and confident country\u2014nothing that they\u2019re actually doing is going to achieve what they claim they want to achieve. Therein also lies another problem. They\u2019re not actually doing what they\u2019re saying they want to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that is an absolute shambles. This is a Government that will take us backwards. It\u2019s a regressive Government, and I absolutely don\u2019t believe that they will achieve even their own loftiest goals. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u002291c5828ec9b345518ac6625f3f0dcf38\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291c5828ec9b345518ac6625f3f0dcf38\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for Disability Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m exceptionally pleased to be taking part in this Address in Reply debate after the wonderful Speech from the Throne that we were able to listen to the other day. I want to take this opportunity to say what a privilege it is to be sitting on this side of the House, and to thank the good people of New Zealand who voted for change and have given us that privilege.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI also want to congratulate you in your elevated position. We took part in a number of debates together and I think that your measured approach and your very sound thinking has been rewarded, and I acknowledge that elevation that you have received. Well done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EWe know that we are entering into Government during a time where there is going to be incredibly tight fiscal constraints due to the excesses of the previous Labour Government, and we are all going to have to cope with those constraints. But across the portfolios that I have the privilege to have been given, there are some bright spots and they are provided by people on the ground who we know are able to bring life to policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI want to talk, first of all, about a young man called Flynn Laker who lives in Arrowtown. I know Flynn and his family well. He is the son of Tracey and the late Tony Laker. He\u2019s the brother of Meg Laker. Flynn has Down Syndrome, but he has never let that stop him get on in life. Flynn works part time and he also runs his own business, and he\u2019s something of a television celebrity. Flynn has \u201CFlynn\u2019s Sox\u201D and on his website Flynn is the boss of that business. If you are hoping to get some socks for Christmas presents from Flynn, you are out of luck\u2014he is completely sold out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI talk about Flynn because he is a wonderful example of, given the right support and the right encouragement, how people from our disabled sector who are living with a disability can be involved in employment and self-employment, and the wonderful experience that that brings for our disabled people should not be diminished in any way. And so I take that story and I make that something that will go with me all my time\u2014that I have responsibility for the disability sector. I\u2019m thrilled to be able to give a shout-out to Flynn today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI now want to talk about the environment because I\u2019ve also been given that privilege of that portfolio. In the previous Government, it has made me incredibly sad and disheartened to see how environmental factors and environmental issues have been used to split this country\u2014rural against urban, different sectors of our population against each other. The reality is that every one of us, regardless of what we do and where we live, impacts on the environment, and therefore every single one of us has a responsibility to improve the lot of the environment. So, whether it is improving the quality of our freshwater, minimising the amount of waste that we produce, or reducing the amount of plastic pollution, we all are to blame for what happens, and we must all take responsibility for that. So I think it is incredibly important that we get away from pointing the finger at different parts of our economy, at different parts of our communities. We have to be joined up on taking responsibility for improving our environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESo I want to talk about a wonderful example of collaboration which has been in the media today in my part of the world; where collaboration between WasteNet and Phoenix Metalman has seen a recycling initiative to recycle lithium and alkaline batteries in Southland. I note that the Invercargill City Council\u2019s manager of infrastructure operations has highlighted the environmental importance of this initiative, saying that there have been numerous fires in regional landfills that have been caused primarily by lithium batteries, and this recycling initiative will reduce those fires and other environmental risks. I just want to say how pleasing it is to see people on the ground taking initiative, being innovative, being entrepreneurial, and coming up with solutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe other portfolio that I am very pleased to have is the tertiary education sector. I acknowledge the challenges that a number of our universities are working through in response to declining New Zealand domestic student numbers and international student numbers not yet being back to pre-COVID levels. I recognise that this is a difficult time for staff, and I recognise that the universities are playing a very difficult balancing act between being financially responsible and retaining capability. So I acknowledge the universities and the staff during this challenging time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI also want to mention Te P\u016Bkenga, the combined polytechnics and industry training organisations\u2019 mega-merged entity that we will be working through the process of disestablishment for. Sadly, there have been no enduring benefits for the over $200 million that has been wasted by the previous Government on this failed experiment. We will work through this disestablishment sensibly and calmly, working a process in consultation with staff, with students, with community, and with industry. And we will listen to what they are saying, unlike the consultation that took place during the rogue process which established Te P\u016Bkenga, which ignored the advice of officials, which ignored the feedback from the sector, and which ignored the concerns of communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EWe will listen and we will make sensible decisions following that consultation, because the industry training and polytechnic education and training in this country is incredibly important. We will make sensible decisions about where economies of scale can be achieved, we will make sensible decisions about where shared services actually save money\u2014not cost more\u2014and we will ensure that maximum regional autonomy can be achieved because we know that\u2019s where the best decisions are made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI give these examples across those three portfolio areas that I am so proud to have been given by our Prime Minister. Because we know that it is the people on the ground who are innovative, who are entrepreneurial, who are able to self-determine their future. They are the people making a difference. This Government will stop the top-down, one-size-fits-all, Government-knows-best mantra that we have had to put up with for the past six years\u2014and it did not work. We will ensure that we are empowering and enabling people to find solutions\u2014people who are on the ground, who know how to make things work in their sector. Mr Speaker, I am delighted to be given this opportunity to speak. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022044b056bb54840089ed1062e1fbd2d8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022044b056bb54840089ed1062e1fbd2d8d\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. Mr Speaker, just want to welcome you to the big Chair as the first Green to sit in that place. Welcome, welcome\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b02454ec4c594d71af8a7dba6c4c65ba\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teaunau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. Ng\u0101 mihi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba0ee64d526647a0900b68813e160032\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and hope to not give you any cause to pull me up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just reflecting on some of those comments as just made by the speaker who\u2019s just resumed her seat, the Hon Penny Simmonds, particularly with regard to her now being the Minister for the Environment. It was really, really interesting to hear her thinking or speculating about the notion of division or the rural-urban divide and also talking about how we\u2019re all, as Aotearoa New Zealand, responsible for our emissions profile. I was thinking about how that is exactly what is laid out in the emissions reduction plan as enabled by the zero carbon Act, the independent Climate Change Commission, and many of the other blueprints and frameworks that were laid out by the Greens in our last six years of Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI found it really, really interesting to hear her say that we needed to not point the finger at certain industries, when in fact we know\u2014again from the emissions reduction plan and from our own emissions profile, as determined by the science, not by politicians\u2014that we know full well which industries are disproportionately responsible for our emissions profile. We know that the top-polluting sector is the agricultural sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225804dc87efe949298c70a07f6f252545\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: IPCC 2016\u2014read the paper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f3160c394324fe48844603caa85d66a\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: And you can yell all you like about it, but those are the facts. That is science. You then know that following on from that, it is transport. Yet what we have from this incoming Government is a dedication, against all of the evidence, to pull back on the measures and the metrics that we have put in place to actually start to pull down those emissions within those certain sectors through an industry-wide approach known as the emissions reduction plan. So I just think that it\u2019s really important for the incoming Government to be fully honest with themselves and with New Zealanders about what it is that that they are trying to achieve here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIn my first speech here in the House subsequent to the election, I just wanted to start\u2014obviously, firstly\u2014by acknowledging those comments from the Hon Penny Simmonds, but in my opening remarks by thanking the people of Auckland Central. It is genuinely the honour and privilege of my life to serve my home and community of Auckland Central from the central city, the 45,000-odd New Zealanders who live within the motorway boundaries, Eden Terrace, Newton, Saint Marys Bay, Ponsonby, Freemans Bay; out across the mighty Hauraki Gulf; Rakino Island and the dozen-odd people who live there permanently; Aotea Great Barrier Island and the 1,100 folks who are out there\u2014where we first discovered Caulerpa brachypus, and I\u2019ll be on at our Minister of Conservation about that\u2014and also, obviously, my 11,000 constituents on Waiheke Island.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI am so honoured to have received that mandate as the local MP, not by virtue of the work that I solely have done\u2014and I think that that\u2019s an important thing for all members of Parliament to recognise: that we are here by virtue of the communities who put us here and the hundreds of volunteers who worked overtime in order to organise to put us in this place. We built that community in Auckland Central, conversation by conversation, on values of compassion and of empathy, and, God forbid, an earnest belief in the importance of evidence-based policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIt would be remiss of me not to mention one of the metrics that my campaign manager Leroy\u2014shout-out to one Leroy Beckett\u2014constantly cites subsequent to our election retaining that seat, obviously firstly historically in 2020 against the red wave and then against the blue wave in 2023, where we received the largest-ever votes of any Auckland Central candidate, ever, in the country in that seat of Auckland Central. What we said there is that this was not a moment, this was a movement; and I said in our rallying cry on the night of the election that that work must continue. We did not do that organising solely for the sake of getting into this place, but by continuing to work on the mission that I was elected upon. That\u2019s pretty abundantly clear to anybody who was following the Green Party\u2019s progressive proposals throughout this election to emphasise and to prioritise the place of people and planet\u2014not to have the economy that we currently have in place that exploits both of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI also just wanted to acknowledge and thank the New Zealanders, across this country, who voted for the strongest ever Green Party result, this election in 2023, to give us 15 MPs to hold this Government to account, because we are just warming up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb9a744e842045a8a7617e23d7bd251c\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e5b55324b2f4025a3f4fb32bbcc3247\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: We also have three Green electorates, Mr Paul Goldsmith. Those Green electorates, two of which you would have come through on your way here, to the House, Rongotai and of course Wellington Central\u2014and you\u2019re welcome to visit Auckland Central anytime, in your arts and cultural capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe may have a reactionary right-wing Government hanging on by a thread, but I\u2019d like to remind New Zealanders that we also have the most left-wing Parliament that we have ever seen in my entire lifetime. So, to unpack that, just for a second, we have 21 seats\u201421 seats\u2014explicitly to the left of the Labour Party. Also, for the first time in the history of an MMP environment, we have a good\u2014I\u2019d say, actually, even a great\u2014relationship, that is not gatekept by one of the two legacy parties, between two ostensible-minded parties. That is, of course, the relationship between the Greens and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ENow, while this Government may be blu-tacked together by hot takes from your uncle at Christmas, you know, led not by the Three Stooges but, in fact, by the three Scrooges, who are coming for you this Christmas, trying to ram through legislation\u2014anti the workers, anti the renters, and we\u2019ll just wait and see when it comes to being anti the planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut what we know, out there, and what many of us have felt\u2014even, most recently, at the rally on Parliament\u2019s lawn at noon today\u2014is that there has never been a sentiment of political awareness that I have ever felt in this country in my lifetime. New Zealanders are waking up and understanding that this place, this Parliament\u2014politics is the manifestation of their will. And we get the politics that we think that we deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EOur call to action for all New Zealanders, if they are feeling disenfranchised or disempowered by what they are seeing from the agenda of this incoming Government\u2014which is far less of a vision than it is a shredder\u2014is for them to get engaged. Because things will only get worse if regular people\u2014normal, good, decent people\u2014stand by on the margins and let it happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ETo that effect, I just want to remind people that the most important thing, here, is not just to get mad, not just to get sad, but to get organised and to get mobilised. Because, as we\u2019ve just said and as we\u2019ve just seen, we are just warming up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EEverything is impossible until it\u2019s not. We have a fascinating economic history, in this country of Aotearoa New Zealand, where, every 40 to 50 years or so, we see a form of economic transformation. In the 1930s and 1940s, of course, we had the advent of the welfare State in the wake of world wars and austerity proposals\u2014an opportunity for us to come together and create the social contract, which, of course, gave us social housing, social welfare, and, with it, some of the greatest periods of prosperity that this country has ever seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThen we saw the shredding of that, in the 1980s and 1990s, with trickle-down economics, which this Government seems intent on bringing us back to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EActually, on that point, I thought it salient to reflect on what was just put forward before, in an earlier debate point, by the Hon Shane Jones, a member of this incoming Government, who was talking about the importance of bringing back oil and gas for sake of certainty within the sector. That is quite the opposite of the point that New Zealand First was making when they were supporting the moves of the incoming Government in 2017, when, of course, we were repealing\u2014or, rather, banning\u2014new, offshore oil and gas exploration, when New Zealand First reflected on what occurred in the 1980s, particularly to regional and rural communities, and what occurred to those communities who were whacked with massive change overnight and saw massive job losses that disproportionately impacted those communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First said then, in 2017-2018, that the most important thing that they could do, in supporting this oil and gas ban, was give those communities an opportunity to prepare, because they knew that the writing was on the wall. And the science tells us, funnily enough, as the Hon Shane Jones himself was reflecting, that we cannot burn all of the fossil fuels that we have already discovered. Because if we burn anywhere from one fifth to one third of what we\u2019ve already discovered\u2014we know because the science tells us; if the Government was interested in listening to it\u2014we are going to burst past 1.5 degrees of warming, which is critical for retention of life as we know it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ETo that effect, again, I just really, really, really want New Zealanders to reflect on the fact that all of these things are choices. We do not have to have an economy that exploits people and the planet; we can have an economy that supports them. We can have free dental care; we can have free tertiary education; we can have a guaranteed minimum-income; we can have rent controls\u2014if we decide, as a Parliament, to move ahead with an evidence base and values of compassion, to implement policies that support both people and the planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EJust on the final point around climate in particular, I want to make it really, really clear to the Government that you can negotiate with and you can change the rules of the economy, but you cannot negotiate with the laws of science, of physics, and of chemistry\u2014of planetary boundaries. We will be organising, and we will not be letting this Government get away with anything quietly. What they have seen and heard so far, from the thousands of New Zealanders who have mobilised against their agenda, is that we\u2019re just getting started.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00223a0aa4eb89c341329c49695c02a2bfb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a0aa4eb89c341329c49695c02a2bfb9\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, congratulations, Mr Speaker, on your appointment to the role. I\u2019d also like to congratulate Prime Minister Chris Luxon, ACT leader David Seymour, and Winston Peters, leader of the New Zealand First Party, for putting together a comprehensive coalition agreement that sets out the real change New Zealand has demanded, and how we will transform New Zealand over the next three years. I\u2019d also like to congratulate returning ACT members of Parliament and the new ACT members of Parliament, who are looking forward to making a productive contribution in this House and in their roles. I\u2019d also like to congratulate members of the Opposition. You are now sitting in the right place, according to most New Zealanders. And I\u2019d like to thank the volunteers and the supporters of the ACT Party in West Auckland and central Auckland\u2014where I spent a lot of time during the election campaign\u2014and around the country, in those regions which asked for ACT to go to Parliament to deliver real change. Thank you for your support. We could not be here to deliver for you without all of those hours of effort you put in, putting up signs and helping us organise events and meetings. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, I want to come to the proposals set out in the Speech from the Throne\u2014in particular, those which relate to resource management reform and the need to deliver infrastructure in a more coherent and cost-effective way. This Government has made it clear, in the coalition agreement, we have a plan to do it, and we have some specific measures that will deliver that. It\u2019s quite different from the incoherent but aspirational Speech from the Throne that I heard in 2020, as a new Member of Parliament, delivered by a former Labour Prime Minister. Now, in order to reform the system used to fund, finance, and deliver infrastructure in New Zealand, so that Kiwis can receive better infrastructure services, we must approach it through a value-for-money lens. We must think about how we actually solve this mushrooming infrastructure-deficit and the eye-watering costs that have been produced to deliver even the most basic things like hospitals and fixing three-waters infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe last three years, we reached peak stupid when it came to infrastructure proposals. We had the $750 million walking and cycling bridge across Auckland Harbour, which, for that amount of money, didn\u2019t even include a bus lane. We had plans for Auckland Light Rail and Let\u2019s Get Wellington Moving\u2014imagined in a bubble where capital is unconstrained. Projects that are under way now, like KiwiRail\u2019s Inter-island Resilience Connection terminals in Picton and Wellington, have been managed so poorly by the sponsors in the last Government\u2014the former Minister of Finance, Grant Robertson, the former Minister for State Owned Enterprises, Dr Duncan Webb\u2014that this new Government is now potentially on the hook for billions of dollars to rebuild the landside and the coastal structures and to pay for these Interislander ferries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThere are good reasons why this Government will soon begin work on a national infrastructure agency, one of the measures set down in the coalition agreement, and institute long-term city and regional infrastructure-deals, allowing public-private partnerships, tolling and value capture, and other innovative measures to generate revenues to pay for infrastructure. That\u2019s because it\u2019s not good enough just to pick projects from some ideological bucket and announce them on a campaign trail; you actually have to consider how individual projects and programmes of work deliver economic and social benefits for the regions where they\u2019re to be delivered. That\u2019s what this coalition Government will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ll also introduce commercial rigour in the way that infrastructure projects and programmes are delivered and the way that money is allocated and costs are controlled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022128dd5c7e4da4613bde2b7a242073ac7\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: What is this innovation that you speak of? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022195c8fb1015e46169d92393ecdf73be3\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: For example, this innovation I speak of means that, when proposals are delivered to Government, basic questions will be asked: who is this for, how much will it cost, how certain are you that this cost will land there, and the time frames\u2014questions that didn\u2019t seem to be asked by our previous Government, but that anybody involved in delivering infrastructure projects in the private sector or in the commercial world would always ask the proposers. The coalition Government also intends to introduce financial incentives for councils to enable more housing, including considering sharing a proportion of the GST revenue collected on new residential building with councils because local government has all of the costs of delivering local infrastructure, but, apart from some very basic rating tools, does not have the ability to access revenue to deliver those big pieces of bulk infrastructure which are needed to allow cities to grow up as well as out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s not good enough just to reform the funding and financing aspects in order to build the infrastructure so we can build cities; we also need to reform the resource management laws. This is not a new problem. We\u2019ve had successive governments run into activist judges and poorly thought-out environmental legislation. Think of the Basin Reserve flyover, a project proposed almost a decade ago to unlock transport in Wellington; stymied by a heritage grandstand which, I promise you, if it was knocked down in an earthquake nobody would miss. Think about projects like the Mt Messenger bypass in Taranaki; stymied by objectors who in the end were found to not have a case but who held the project up for years and have cost the Government and taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. Or the objectors to seabed mining off the coast of Taranaki who\u2014it turns out, all of the environmental considerations were addressed, and yet that project is still stuck dealing with the Supreme Court directions to consider tikanga, an esoteric concept that cannot be readily defined by applicants or lawyers or the Environment Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWell, I heard for three years, sitting on the Environment Committee, all kinds of ways the previous Government was going to deal with that. However, the former Labour Government\u2019s Spatial Planning Act, and Natural and Built Environment Act didn\u2019t address it. They introduced new novel terms like \u201Cte oranga o te taiao\u201D, which submitters told the Environment Committee could take a decade to litigate, to work out what they even meant. How is anybody supposed to get a consent to build infrastructure\u2014roads, bridges, waste-water treatment plants, let alone a housing subdivision anywhere if you don\u2019t even know what the terms in the bill mean? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWell, forcing decision makers to give effect to the Treaty wasn\u2019t going to get more housing and infrastructure built but this coalition Government does have a plan. We will repeal those two pieces of legislation\u2014the Spatial Planning and the Natural Built Environment Acts\u2014in the first 100 days. This Government will introduce a fast-track consenting regime to get infrastructure projects built that are currently locked up, stuck in consenting and permitting. This Government will amend the Resource Management Act, which will be reinstated to make it easier to consent new infrastructure including renewable energy to allow farmers to farm, to get more houses built, enable aquaculture and other primary industries to get ahead. Then we will replace the Resource Management Act with a new resource management law, premised on the enjoyment of property rights as a guiding principle. Imagine that: being able to use your land to build or grow what you want without the risk of having people come out of the woodwork, come from far and wide, bring their homemade signs to protest and oppose what you want to do with your own land. ACT believes, and this coalition Government believes, that\u2019s one way that we can help Kiwis get ahead: let them use their own land to become more productive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, there are many more things in this Government\u2019s 100-day plan, that coalition agreement, which will improve the lives of everyday New Zealanders, make this country more productive, give certainty to businesses and individuals who want to invest in building infrastructure, whether it\u2019s a culvert or a bridge on a farm or a culvert under a State highway. It\u2019s going to take a little bit of time to solve some of these problems, but the solutions are clear in the coalition agreement. We\u2019ve been thinking about this for three years and, to those New Zealanders listening or watching at home, we are ready to get on with it. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u0022efeb9c62279c4e1d93449365f504e0de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efeb9c62279c4e1d93449365f504e0de\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG (Minister of State for Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I also add my applause to that commentary just given. Mr Speaker, congratulations on your ascension to that fine role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a2f5c34cec74d1e931093700e5982e4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255787cfd478748918e53c0e0aaa542f8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re all very pleased to see you there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EIt is a privilege, after that stonking great election result, to be standing on this side of the House after three years on the Opposition benches, as part of the 54th Parliament and, indeed, a part of this innovative, visionary coalition Government. I would like to welcome members from across the House, particularly too those of you who are new here. Some people liken it to Hogwarts: you do get lost, but you will eventually find your way. That is the topic I\u2019d like to talk about a little bit today: after six years in the wilderness, after six years of directionless ambling around, directionless travel, economic hard times, we are back. We are going to rebuild this country. We are here to get New Zealand back on track. We have a very big few years ahead of us. There is a lot to do, there is a lot to repair, there is a lot to renew. We have a vision for this country, despite what the naysayers will have you believe. We have a vision, we have a plan, we are excited. We believe New Zealand is the best little country on planet Earth, and it deserves a Government who will serve it and accompany the success of Kiwis, not try to determine it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EAs we all went out on the campaign trail just, I don\u2019t know, it was about six months ago\u2014it feels like a lifetime ago\u2014we took on the feedback of New Zealanders. They wanted to be heard; for six years they have been told what to do, how to live their lives, and they wanted to be heard. That came through loud and clear. So here we are with a coalition signed, sealed, and delivered; we are ready to deliver on what they have asked for. It\u2019s really interesting listening to the speeches on this side of the House about the new ideas, the big ideas, the huge energy. We\u2019ve been itching to get back to work since the election. The results rolled in and New Zealanders were heard loud and clear. The coalition Government has done and will continue to do what the previous Government could not do, and that was to listen. I would like to acknowledge the leaders of the coalition Government: of course, our new Prime Minister, Christopher Luxon; the leader of the ACT Party, David Seymour; and of course the leader of the New Zealand First Party, the Rt Hon Winston Peters. We have formed a coalition under the leadership of these three gentlemen that will deliver on the needs of New Zealanders with commitment, with cohesion, and with consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThe speech delivered by the Governor-General on behalf of the new Government has outlined our direction and optimism for this great country. It has most certainly highlighted that we\u2019re determined to get things done. We\u2019re determined to get things done for New Zealanders and for them to see tangible differences in their everyday lives, because that is what really matters. We want to establish stability again, we want to grow economic prosperity, we want to restore national unity and national pride. We want to boost social cohesiveness alongside rights and responsibilities of being a New Zealand citizen, amongst all our goals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, rebuilding the agricultural sector is very near and dear to my heart, and indeed to those of my colleagues. I\u2019ve been very privileged to have been named the National Party\u2019s Associate Minister of Agriculture (Horticulture), and I\u2019d also like to identify the dream team, made up of Andrew Hoggard from the ACT Party and Mark Patterson from New Zealand First. We will be supporting the lead Minister of Agriculture, one Hon Todd McClay, and we are ready to get things done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThe agricultural sector, like the rest of New Zealand, has really, really battled for the last six years, and if you think inflation is bad in the urban environment, go out on-farm. At 16 percent, it is making life miserable. It has been very, very tough out there for an industry that actually only wants to do the very best it can, despite the rhetoric that has come from Government benches over the last six years. They have been bombarded with regulations, with rules, and with restrictions that are not fit for purpose and that have not been based in scientific evidence of best practice. They have been slammed with increased costs, and they have been all but forgotten by the previous Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ESo I want to take the opportunity this afternoon to speak about our agricultural and rural sector. We do know, over here on this side of the House, how very important these good men and women of New Zealand are to our culture and our economy, and let\u2019s not forget that they have so often served as the economic lifeline for this country and they really should be recognised as such. We have not forgotten that they need confidence and they need our support, and that is why we are going to make our intentions clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EA lot of other speakers have talked about our 100-day plan, and I just want to quickly outline some of the coalition highlights, and they are that we are going to enable our farmers and landowners to offset their emissions. We\u2019re going to calculate the sequestration against their on-farm emissions. We\u2019re going to amend the new \u201CResource Management Act Mark II\u201D, as we call it. We\u2019re going to allow farmers to farm, we\u2019re going to get houses built, and we\u2019re going to enhance the primary sector, including fish and aquaculture and forestry and pasture and horticulture and mining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to cut red tape. We\u2019re going to cut regulatory blocks on irrigation, on water storage and on managed aquifer recharge and flood protection schemes, and, goodness me, all of these are actually beneficial to the environment. I know, Mr Assistant Speaker Tuiono, you are also very strident in your views about the agricultural sector, and I\u2019m sure that we will come to a lot of alignment in the coming years as we all work together for the benefit of this sector. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to be ambitious for our country. We\u2019re going to liberalise genetic engineering laws. We\u2019re going to ensure strong protection for human health and, of course, the environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to reverse the ban on live animal exports, but New Zealand will become a world leader in ensuring the highest standards of animal welfare. We\u2019re going to reform the NAWAC, as Mark Cameron alluded to\u2014the National Animal Welfare Advisory Committee. It is not fit for purpose. It\u2019s membership, its functions, and its mandates are not appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also going to cease the implementation of those significant natural areas that have also been previously mentioned. We\u2019re going to improve farm environment plans. Farmers are great custodians of the environment, and this House must remember that. They are so often so unfairly targeted with vitriol that is entirely undeserved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to replace the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management. We\u2019re going to make it fit for purpose. We\u2019re going to go catchment by catchment, and region by region. We\u2019re not going to allow this top-down, nonsensical, unscientific approach to continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to incentivise the uptake of emissions reduction mitigation. We\u2019re not just going to tax the sector into submission; we are going to encourage it to lead the world in this space. We are going to meet our carbon zero 2050 goals. We are on track to meet those targets, and I know that every farmer in New Zealand is on board with that and is thoroughly incentivised to get going with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EOf course, we\u2019re an export-dependent nation down at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, at the bottom of the world. We are going to prioritise trade agreements\u2014fair free-trade agreements\u2014and we will be targeting as our first port of call the great nation of India. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EOn trade, I\u2019ve also had the privilege of being made the Minister of State for Trade. Of course, when the Prime Minister rang me, I did actually have to ask him what exactly that meant. But a quick google away and I soon discovered what exactly it meant, and I\u2019m very excited to get on board with that, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has gained so much by having really strong global relationships with our overseas partners. We do play a very important, prominent role in the globe. We are seen as a fair player, and that in this day and age is very important. So we\u2019ll be working very closely with the Hon Todd McClay, who is the Minister for Trade. I am excited about his vision and the opportunities available to New Zealand. We understand that there are about $10 billion in non-tariff barriers sitting on the table that that previous Government ignored for six years. That is some work to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EFrom tomatoes to wine and everything else in between, we will get our exports to market. We are excited to rebuild our relationships, we\u2019re excited to rebuild our economy, and we\u2019re excited to see the results that that means for every living New Zealander in this country. Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to make the contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0adcff55f9e45fba63e39eaaf98c437\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0adcff55f9e45fba63e39eaaf98c437\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014\u201CMark Patterson\u201D, I think. But may I start by congratulating you on your ascension to the Chair, and it\u2019s pretty historic for your party as well as for yourself. So that\u2019s a fine achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Rt Hon Christopher Luxon on becoming Prime Minister of New Zealand. It is the highest honour we can accord one of our citizens, and we in New Zealand First have been impressed by the way that he\u2019s tackled the task so far and his relationship that he\u2019s sought to establish with us. He\u2019s been very direct in his expectations\u2014gone is the fluff and in is the action. Also, I congratulate the Hon David Seymour and the ACT Party on forming the balance of the coalition, and we look forward to working with you over these next three years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI would like to congratulate, as has been said, the new MPs in the House, and across the House particularly. If my experience is anything to go by, no matter how much you\u2019ve been around this place, until you\u2019ve sat in these green chairs and had to debate the issues, big and small, and the gravity of those\u2014every issue is important to someone somewhere and some of them are important to everyone, and nothing quite prepares you for that. So enjoy the ride, but it is a big responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to congratulate particularly the new New Zealand First team: Casey Costello, Tanya Unkovich, Andy Foster, and Jamie Arbuckle. They will be fine contributors to our team. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ETo Ingrid Leary, for winning\u2014or just squeaking in, I might say\u2014over myself and Scott Willis in the Taieri electorate, I say congratulations, Ingrid. It\u2019s great to see you here, and Scott as well, who is the most rarest of rare species: a practical Green. We\u2019ve had a bit of a pledge between us. We do have quite a constructive relationship and we will work together on local issues. Ingrid and I have already started on lobbying for some extra funding for a forestry school in Milton. Scott and I have already started on a much more serious matter. He had to bring the suits up from Dunedin that I\u2019d forgot on Sunday, when I headed up to Gisborne. So thank you, Scott. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is back, and we can thank a lot of people for this, but I think the people we really need to thank are the Labour Party for their increasingly authoritarian stances, for their attack on our very democracy, for being out of touch with the working New Zealanders that they purport to represent, for trying to centralise almost everything, and for running our economy into the rocks to where our economic outlook is sitting at 159th in the world by IMF measures, sitting only just above Equatorial Guinea, which actually happens to be in the middle of a coup at the moment. So the cavalry has arrived in just the nick of time, and the attack on our agricultural community, as the Hon Nicola Grigg was just outlining before\u2014and I\u2019ll get back to that shortly\u2014was nothing short of extraordinary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIn fact, my decision to stand again for this House was not one that was taken lightly, but when the Labour Party announced that they were prepared to sacrifice 21 percent of the sheep and beef sector at the altar of the climate change policy, I just could not sit by and take that. So New Zealand First is back, I am back, and I\u2019m sure our farmers are pleased that the coalition Government is now in charge and that sort of policy would never be allowed to pass anywhere near into legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThank you to the voters. They turned to New Zealand First for our pragmatic, common-sense, and egalitarian policy platform. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI must pay tribute to the Rt Hon Winston Peters, one of the most consequential politicians ever to have sat in this House. You\u2019ve got to realise, when you\u2019re a political party outside of Parliament, outside of this platform, to get back into Parliament\u2014the leadership to do that was inspirational, it was totemic, and it was historic. It is probably the one thing that we do have in common with Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori is we\u2019re the only parties that have fought our way back from outside Parliament. The wealth of knowledge that he brings to this House will be most needed in this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI also must take the chance to acknowledge Darroch Ball, Julian Paul, Holly Howard, and Dot Jones, who gave their time voluntarily full-time for three years, without a pay cheque to put the structures in place. While Winston\u2019s out front\u2014and we, as politicians, were out front\u2014they were laying the foundations. We stand here, guys, on your shoulders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe need to turn New Zealand around. We need to be lifting our growth. We need to be providing more opportunities, and that is just what we intend to do as a coalition. It is my great honour to have been named and trusted with responsibility of Minister for Rural Communities, and Associate Minister for Agriculture. I do acknowledge the Hon Nicola Grigg and the Hon Andrew Hoggard and the team that Nicola referenced under the Hon Todd McClay. We intend to set the agricultural community alight with some common-sense and pragmatic stewardship. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe can say that agriculture is back in this House. It\u2019s not only the leadership that I\u2019ve referenced, but I welcome the gumboot-wearing MPs\u2014I think, Wayne Langford, the President of Federated Farmers. It is great to see so many farmers back in this House, and that is a consequence of the uprising from rural New Zealand. They saw that they needed to have some leaders in this House to represent their interest. Rural confidence was at a 20-year low; it didn\u2019t come before in the nick of time. Agriculture and horticulture are New Zealand\u2019s only industries of scale that are internationally competitive. They are incredibly important to this country. The numbers get thrown around time and time again to the point where they seem to not mean anything: $57 billion or $58 billion of foreign exchange to an economy that is running a current account deficit could not be more critical; 350,000 New Zealanders directly employed; it is 82 percent\u201482 percent\u2014of New Zealand\u2019s merchandise export trade. We will champion our farmers and growers, we will respect our farmers and growers, and we will see them as the solution, and not the problem. [Bell rung] Time goes a bit quicker after three years, I\u2019ve noticed! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe do have our challenges: water quality and quantity, our emissions profile from agriculture and how we\u2019re going to do that, and getting the right tree in the right place. I am glad to see that not only is New Zealand First back in the House, agriculture is back in the House, but wool will be back in Government buildings. It is my favourite part of the coalition agreement. It astounds me that we could not get this past the Green Party the last time we were in Parliament to champion this. This sustainable fibre is back in Government buildings and we intend to do a lot more with wool as we look to get it back to contributing to the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ERural communities\u2014those 700,000 Kiwis\u2014as I\u2019ve said, it\u2019s where the nation\u2019s wealth is created. We need to return the vibrancy back to that. It is not just farmers or the shearers or the truckies or the stock agents. We want the artists and the entrepreneurs and the small-businessmen out there. After COVID, people have reassessed their priorities. These communities are now starting to grow again as people question the merits of sitting two hours a day in traffic, and sitting in a glass tower behind a desk. People are coming back. We have to make sure we are ready for them. We have to make sure they\u2019ve got good primary healthcare including mental health, good education, good roading and, increasingly, connectivity and communications. They need a police presence, and they need access to resources so they can actually sustain their economies. The Rt Hon Shane Jones outlined earlier exactly what we intend to do to build our economies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo, in this role, I will be a strong advocate. I expect to have a battalion of rural MPs knocking on my door, filling my inbox with invitations. My door is open. Let\u2019s get rural communities back on track. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022380e8e4708ef4821a745de721583bec0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022380e8e4708ef4821a745de721583bec0\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak in this debate. I\u2019m just mindful of the fact that we\u2019re approaching a time when maiden speeches are coming up. I\u2019m very much looking forward to hearing Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke\u2019s speech. Unfortunately, you\u2019ll have to wait for 10 minutes of my speech beforehand; great to see the media is accumulating for this operation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIt does take my mind back\u2014takes me 12 years back to when I gave my maiden speech. I referred to my great grand-daddy Charles George Goldsmith coming out to the Poverty Bay in the 1840s. He was a great lover of the w\u0101hine of the Ng\u0101ti Porou. He had many relationships, and he had a lot of children. That was the kind of enterprise that founded this nation, and I agreed to follow in his footsteps. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut of course, coming into Parliament, the goal of\u2014I\u2019m sure\u2014all MPs over time is to be able to be a part of a Cabinet and a Government that works hard to improve the lives of New Zealanders. So I\u2019m very thankful for the opportunity that the voters gave the National Party and our coalition partners to form a Government and to be a part of a Government that, I believe, will improve the lives of New Zealanders in many ways. If we go back to what people were focused on during the election campaign; certainly, when I was up and down the country talking to people, the number one issue was the cost of living. Everywhere you go, if you went on to the doorstep and asked people, \u201CWhat are you worried about?\u201D, immediately they\u2019d be talking about the cost of rents, the cost of food and day-to-day articles, and how they\u2019re going to put together the money that they need in order to feed their family and to get ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThat is why the overwhelming priority and focus of this Government at the start\u2014under the leadership of Chris Luxon and Nicola Willis\u2014is on trying to push back against the inflation that has dominated over the last couple of years, and do what the Government can do to take pressure off households, starting off with some tax relief. People think this is an amazing thing. Well, because there have not been any adjustments to the tax rates over a long period of time during inflation, people are paying more and more tax. It is right and appropriate that the Government adjusts those thresholds so more money isn\u2019t being taken out of their pockets at a time when they are struggling to pay the bills. So that\u2019s what we will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen we\u2019ll also bring back and restore some discipline to Government spending so that Government isn\u2019t stoking the fire. It\u2019s a fair criticism to be made of Grant Robertson, the former finance Minister, who was stoking the fires of inflation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022068362c27340418ea8d83488faa9d38b\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: How much are the name changes costing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad1e6dc1609946d09af8fdafef2ffff4\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Chl\u00F6e. Very much focused on poor quality spending. So that\u2019s going to be a focus for us. Also recognising the impact of ill-conceived regulations in terms of the cost. I was just talking to an architect in Auckland last week who was talking about the latest home insulation requirements in Auckland, and the extremely thick insulation required in a pretty warm part of the country, and the additional costs that that\u2019s adding to building houses, and ultimately to the cost of housing, which flows through to every household in Auckland trying to get affordable housing. So regulatory side of the State is so important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe second thing that you\u2019d hear on the doorstep after cost of living was law and order. I can remember many times during the campaign trail, previous Ministers of Justice who I debated against\u2014there were a number of them\u2014and general academics would say, \u201COh, you\u2019re fearmongering when you\u2019re talking about crime\u201D. Well, that, I\u2019m afraid, is not the truth. People see what\u2019s going on in their communities, and they raised it with us over and over again. So we all visited shopkeepers all around the country who had been the subject of ram raids and attacks in their workplaces. People could see the impact of gangs in their community and they wanted the Government to do something about it. They were concerned that the only clear target that the previous Government had was to reduce the prison population irrespective of what was going on in our communities, and we needed to change that. That\u2019s the first thing we\u2019ve done in Government\u2014change that to show that our focus in justice is upon improving public safety and reducing the number of victims of crime. That\u2019s what we\u2019re going to be focused on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ll be restoring real consequences for crime, because part of the goal of sentencing people who are convicted of crimes is to denounce the act and to give some succour to victims that there is justice for them. So we\u2019re going to be working our way through some changes in the justice area. We\u2019re going to be restricting the ability of judges to significantly reduce sentences so that people actually do face real consequences for crime. Then we\u2019ll be giving the police the powers that they need in order to deal with gangs in our communities. So whether that\u2019s banning gang patches in public places or whether it\u2019s giving the police powers to disperse gangs when they\u2019re taking over a township like \u014Cp\u014Dtiki, as we saw in the past, and also dealing with firearms that have become a real issue in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBut at the same time, we also want to make much better progress in rehabilitating prisoners. So an important part of our overall justice priority is to deal with those\u2014half of the prisoners who are in prison right now are remand prisoners who are awaiting their trial. At the moment, they are not eligible to access all the rehabilitation programmes that are available\u2014drug and alcohol relief; a whole bunch of things that are there in order to help them get ahead and get back on track when they leave prison. So one of the things we\u2019ll be doing is making sure that all prisoners are eligible for those rehabilitation programmes and we think that will make a big difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EOf course, the other area, when we talk about youth crime, much more significant things are about making sure the kids are at school. After six years where truancy got out of control, our Government will be focused on dealing with some of those long-term drivers of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI also was very pleased when the Prime Minister, Chris Luxon, gave me the Treaty negotiations portfolio. I\u2019m very conscious of the fact that I stand in a proud tradition in the National Party of a party that has actually delivered in that space, because there\u2019s a lot of talk on the other side. But it was Sir Douglas Graham that kicked things off with Prime Minister Jim Bolger, who got the Ng\u0101i Tahu settlement sorted and one with Tainui, which set the benchmark that that got things going. And then after a long period of drift, after Helen Clark, Christopher Finlayson turned up and really turbocharged that Treaty settlement process in order to bring some progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow, not everybody is going to be happy with every outcome, but we made progress and certainly my goal is to continue that tradition so that iwi and hap\u016B across the country can reap some compensation for the breaches of the Treaty and get their feet established so that they can do well in the future. So that\u2019s something that I\u2019m looking forward to. Obviously, we\u2019ve got big challenges up in the Far North and I\u2019m hoping for goodwill to abide on all those areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ERecognising that we as a country are trying to do something that is quite unique around the world and it is a challenging prospect of how a country recognises the Treaty of Waitangi and honours that Treaty, while also stands for those core human rights of equal citizenship and equality before the law. And that I don\u2019t for a moment think is an easy discussion but it\u2019s one that we\u2019re going to carry on with goodwill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe final one I\u2019ve been given is arts and culture. And I certainly celebrate with all people across the House the magnificent creative industries that we have in this country\u2014our artists, our writers, our historians, our musicians, and our photographers, and all the many people, film makers, who contribute to making this such a rich and vibrant culture. I regard that as actually quite an important economic portfolio, because the creative sector is significant in our economy. It\u2019s actually a big export earner. The film industry is a big export earner. The music industry is a big export owner. So when Todd McClay goes heading off to our places on trade missions, as well as the meat workers he should also have some of the musicians and the artists, because they are great exporters as well and that\u2019s something I\u2019ll be championing. Thank you very much for your commentary on that score.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo with that, I just want to acknowledge the maiden speech coming up and I wish the member, Hana-Rawhiti, all the very best in Parliament. This is a broad church, this Parliament, but we all desire to improve the lot of our fellow New Zealanders. And on that basis, thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002244148851ed3e4e06bc233163f887da4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244148851ed3e4e06bc233163f887da4e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke to make her maiden statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u00222bbe120cc19242dab059483ceb9aabc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bbe120cc19242dab059483ceb9aabc8\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe, e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou, e te Whare. Ka ngau ki M\u014Dkau, ka ngau ki T\u0101maki. Ka r\u016B te whenua, ka mate te marama, ka taka ng\u0101 whet\u016B i te rangi, ka ara Waikato i te rua, au, au, aue ha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EHaka\u2014E ko te t\u016B\u012B\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EHe aha r\u0101, he aha r\u0101? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EHe aha te mahi m\u014D runga i te marae e t\u016B nei!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EE ko te tui, e ko te tui!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EE ko te hono ki te kotahitanga ki te K\u012Bngi M\u0101ori e t\u016B nei\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EE t\u016B nei i runga i te mana M\u0101ori motuhake e t\u016B nei\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EWhiti! Whiti!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EWhiti ki te tika\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EWhiti ki te ora\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EWhiti ki te rangim\u0101rie\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ETitia iho\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EAu! Au! Aue h\u0101!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EHikohiko te uira, pap\u0101 te whatitiri, whakahekeheke mai te K\u014Dhanga ki runga o P\u0101remata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u201CKua ara ake ahau i te papa o te whenua, kua kite au i ng\u0101 whet\u016B e t\u016B takitahi ana. Ko Matariki te kairuri, ko Atutahi kei te taumata o te Mang\u014Droa. Ko te Atua t\u014Dku piringa, ka puta, ka ora.\u201D He tongikura n\u0101 K\u012Bngi T\u0101whiao.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EKei taku k\u012Bngi, K\u012Bngi T\u0101whiao P\u014Dtatau Te Wherowhero te Tuawhitu, me te whare k\u0101hui ariki wh\u0101nui, te Puhiariki o te motu, Ng\u0101-wai-hono-i-te-p\u014D, kua rangatira t\u014D t\u0101tou nei p\u014D i a koe. Rirerire hau, pai m\u0101rire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ENg\u0101 mate o te tau, o te marama, o te wiki, o te r\u0101 nei, ng\u0101 r\u0101rangi k\u012Bngi o te p\u014D, hoki atu r\u0101 koutou ki te pare kawakawa o Pare\u0101rau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EKi te mana whenua o Te \u0100tiawa, nei r\u0101 ka t\u016Bohu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EHe raukura n\u014D Rongowairereiao, Taranaki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. Greetings to us all, to the House. I wander to M\u014Dkau, I wander to Auckland. The land quakes, the moon wanes, the stars fall from the sky, Waikato arises from the abyss, it is our time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EHaka\u2014E ko te t\u016B\u012B\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EWhat is it, what is it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EWhat is the purpose of the gathering on the marae that stands here!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EIt is to unite, it is to unite!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EIt is to come together under the mantle and unity of the K\u012Bngitanga\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EUpon the foundations of our M\u0101ori self-determination\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EEmanate and shine!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EEmanate what is right\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EEmanate life\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EEmanate peace\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ELet all these things come together\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EAu! Au! Aue h\u0101!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ELightning flashes, thunder crashes, the K\u014Dhanga generation descends on Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u201CI arose from the bed of the earth, I have seen the stars standing alone. Matariki is the one who serenades in farewell, and Atutahi is at the zenith of the Milky Way. God is my refuge, I emerge, I am well.\u201D A royal statement by King T\u0101whiao.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ETo my king, King T\u0101whiao P\u014Dtatau Te Wherowhero te Tuawhitu, and the entire royal household, the Royal Consort, Ng\u0101 Wai-hono-i-te-p\u014D, this night has been honoured by you. Peace and goodness be upon us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EThe dearly departed of the year, of the month, of the week, of this very day, the ranks of kings of the night, return to the kawakawa wreath of Jupiter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ETo the mana whenua of Te \u0100tiawa, I bow to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EThe leader from Rongowairereiao, Taranaki.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EOver 1.2 million acres confiscated. He uri o Whakaotirangi o Waikato. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[A descendant of Whakaotirangi of Waikato.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EOver 1.2 million acres confiscated. He whakahekenga n\u014D \u0100huaiti o Ng\u0101puhi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[A scion of \u0100huaiti of Ng\u0101puhi.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EOver 200,000 lands confiscated. He mangainga n\u014D Hamo-i-te-rangi o Ng\u0101i Tahu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[A descendant of Hamo-i-te-rangi of Ng\u0101i Tahu.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E34.5 million acres confiscated. Ka ora tonu t\u014D r\u0101tou uri whakaheke. Ko Mutuwhenua te marama i te rangi nei, ko Hine-i-te-weka te whet\u016B.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[Their descendant heir will live on. The moon phase today is Mutuwhenua, the relevant star is Hine-i-te-weka.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EWell, I was almost just going to say, \u201CWe are here; let\u2019s get to mahi.\u201D But those flights down for our wh\u0101nau were pretty expensive and some of my cousins even missed Allen Stone\u2019s concert tonight for this. No, this is better. Ironically, they say the stars align, but I think tonight is a little bit more than the stars aligning. The meteors will shower. The comet 46P in a full circle moment will shower tonight across Aotearoa. Last time this meteor showered was in 1972, when te Petihana was brought to P\u0101remata from our grandparents. This mokopuna delivers their maiden speech 51 years later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI truly feel like I\u2019ve already said my maiden speech outside the steps of Parliament last year, for the 50th anniversary of Te Petihana, where my last statements of my speech\u2014I quote\u2014\u201CI will leave the decision with you whether or not you jump on our waka or not, because with or without you we will sail in both worlds. We\u2019ve come so far, but we\u2019ve got a long way to go. Let\u2019s see what we can do in the next 50 years.\u201D My last question at the time was to Minister Grant Robertson: \u201CAotearoa, te Whare P\u0101remata, are you ready?\u201D A whole year later, we can say we have made it inside the House and we have arrived. We are here. We are sailing. We are navigating, just like our ancestors once did, in the biggest ocean in the world, Te Moana-nui-a-Kiwa\u2014even though some others aren\u2019t even jumping on the Waka Kotahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EKi te m\u0101reikura, te wahine iho p\u016Bmanawa, e Nanaia Mahuta, e kore e ea te kupu, e kore e oti ng\u0101 whakam\u0101nawa ki a koe. N\u0101hau r\u0101 i para t\u0113nei huarahi, n\u0101hau r\u0101 t\u0113nei Whare P\u0101remata i hamahama, n\u0101hau r\u0101 i ringa raup\u0101 ki t\u014D t\u0101ua nei iwi. Nei r\u0101 t\u014D mokopuna e t\u016Bohu ana ki a koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[To the esteemed lady, the most talented lady, Nanaia Mahuta, the word will never be fulfilled, my gratitude to you will never end. You who blazed this path, you who hammered this House of Parliament, you who worked tirelessly for our people. Here your mokopuna bows to you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI was given some advice before making it into Parliament, to not take anything personally or it\u2019ll eat you up. Well, I can\u2019t help but take everything personally that has been said in this Chamber. In only a couple of weeks, in only 14 days, this Government has attacked my whole world from every corner. Health, taiao, wai, whenua, natural resources, M\u0101ori wards, reo, tamariki, and the right of me and you to be in this country under Te Tiriti. How can I not take anything personally when it feels like these policies were made about me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EE kore rawa au e tuku i te mana ki a koutou ki te p\u0113hi nei i t\u014Dku nei ao. K\u0101ore au e m\u014Dhio ki t\u0113tehi ao an\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[I will never cede the mana to you who are suppressing my world. I don\u2019t know any other world.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI am not fearful of this place or this debating chamber; trust me, I\u2019ve been to marae AGMs all my life\u2014I will not say which marae either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI dedicated my last speech outside of Parliament to my grandparents. I quote: \u201CThis is for my nana Eileen, that became in debt with a student loan to learn her reo she once lost. This is for my nanny Ranini, that was ashamed as a little girl of her name. This is for my papa Albie, that worked in a blue collar all his life to fit in society. This is for my pop, that still finds it hard to have confidence to sit on the pae. This is for my nana Gail, in her 70s, that spends most nights studying her language and now messages me on Facebook in te reo every chance she gets. This is for my koro Taitimu, that wanted me to come here with a hammer and red paint.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EHowever, this speech today, my maiden speech, is dedicated to all our children that join me from up above: our wharekura, our kura. To my younger siblings, my goddaughter, my nieces and nephews from up above, no matter what comes out of this Government, I will make sure our kids hear us. Never fit in. You are perfect. You are the perfect fit. To our tamariki, your reo is whispering for you. To the tamariki M\u0101ori who have been sitting in the back of their classroom their whole life, whakam\u0101, waiting generations longing to learn their native tongue, to the tamariki who haven\u2019t been to their pepeha yet, it is waiting for you with open arms. To our mokopuna, they can attack me, but I will not let them attack you. Our first words we spoke in this House was an oath to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ETo Hauraki-Waikato, I am at your service in and outside of Parliament. I will die for you in these chambers, but I will live for you outside these four walls. I will be a constant sponge, soaking up and listening to our k\u014Drero tuku iho and the needs for our people, straight from the soil. Your job for me is to keep me in line and in check.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EThe first thing Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori taught me is to believe in myself and to always keep grounded. We do not own these seats; we are kaitiaki for our people. We are not the ones, but we are the kaikarere from the home base to the Beehive. We are the protectors in here and the providers in our home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EKi ng\u0101 hoa piri o t\u0113nei tau\u0101 o Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori: Rawiri te kaiurungi e t\u016B hakahaka nei; Whaea Debbie, te wairua n\u014D \u014D t\u016Bpuna a Te Whiti r\u0101ua ko Te Tohu; Whaea Mariameno, te wahine, \u0101, ko Reit\u016B, Reipae e hao nei i t\u0113nei waka n\u014D Te Hiku; Takutai, ka rongo i t\u014D reo n\u014D R\u0101tana P\u0101 e tiori mai nei ki a au; T\u0101kuta, t\u014D whakapau kaha ki t\u0113nei tira; Meka, t\u014D wairua atawhai, e koa ana te ng\u0101kau ki te kite i a koe.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[To the loyal companions of this army of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori: Rawiri the navigator that stands here to haka; Whaea Debbie, the spirit of your ancestors Te Whiti and Te Tohu; Whaea Mariameno, the lady, reminiscent of Reit\u016B and Reipae that encapsulates this waka from the Far North; Takutai, I hear your voice from R\u0101tana P\u0101 singing here to me; T\u0101kuta, your tireless work for this team; Meka, your nurturing soul, I am happy to see you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI am absolutely privileged to be by your side. At 21 years old, I can definitely say this was not the plan. I was perfectly fine growing my k\u016Bmara and learning maramataka, but this House kept tampering with things they shouldn\u2019t be touching, and that\u2019s why I left the m\u0101ra to come here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ETo my wh\u0101nau who have travelled near and far from across the motu and everyone watching at home, I see you, I hear you, and I feel you, but I cannot thank you enough. I know they won\u2019t like me saying this, but I want to thank all my grandparents, my parents\u2014this is my mum\u2019s worst living nightmare, me being in here, and my dad watching on the TV going, \u201CYou go, girl\u2014get em!\u201D My teachers, our kura, our club, my cousins, my in-laws, my bestest friends, and my siblings for keeping me sane and grounded and telling me when I need a wardrobe check. My partner, for your unwavering support and constant love. To every person that has gathered up top today, i rangona t\u014D m\u0101tou haka. I rongo? I rangona. I whatitiri t\u0113nei Whare i t\u014D t\u0101tou nei reo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[Our haka was heard. Did you hear? It was heard. This House thundered with our voice.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ETo every person that is watching from home, to every person in this room up above, this isn\u2019t my moment; this is yours. Every time you hear my voice, it will echo of my ancestors. Every time you look me in the eyes, you will see the children that survived. Over the next three years, you will see history rewrite itself without a pen. See you at T\u016Brangawaewae on the 20th. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EWaiata\u2014\u201CHe aha kei taku uma\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EHaka\u2014\u201CE ko te t\u016B\u012B\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u0022535f4ff4eb2749fe8933d5a2fbdf6a0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022535f4ff4eb2749fe8933d5a2fbdf6a0e\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Wairua Tapu, kuhu mai, nau mai ki konei. Wairua Tapu, arahia, k\u014Drero mai an\u014D, tihei mauri ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E[Holy Spirit, enter, welcome to this place. Holy Spirit, lead us, speak to us again, the breath of life.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EE te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Mr Speaker, congratulations to you, sir, on your new role. It\u2019s a privilege to serve with you and learn from you. Indeed, it\u2019s a privilege to stand here today surrounded by friends and family, both in the gallery and down here in the Chamber. A humbling experience and some might say an unlikely one\u2014from the chubby kid that came last in the fourth-form road race, the kid that hid in the music block for half of high school, the kid that was told it\u2019s OK to dream about being an air force pilot, but you really should think about being a maths teacher like your mum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EMy story is not one of getting everything the first time up at the plate but rather one of perseverance, of determination, of character refined in the fire of failure and forged through adversity in the truest sense of \u201Cper ardua ad astra\u201D and \u201Cnihil boni sine labore\u201D. My story has always been that you cannot tell the man from the boy, and I stand here as living proof\u2014troubled yet not distressed, perplexed but not in despair, cast down but not destroyed. I\u2019ve been knocked back a few times, but I\u2019ve never given up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EThere have been a couple of challenges that have taken me two goes and an extra three years to get there with, but I\u2019ve found there are very few challenges that cannot be overcome with hard work, with perseverance and, most fundamentally, with character, which always plays the long game. If that chubby 14-year-old kid can go on to run a few marathons, join the air force and deploy on operations all around the world, then there must be hope for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EBut first, to quote the sadly now infamous song, let me introduce to you myself to you. I was blessed to grow up with the most amazing parents. They were both schoolteachers. Mum stayed at home to look after the kids and it\u2019s a sacrifice that I\u2019m eternally grateful for. I had a pretty standard 1980s upbringing\u2014backyard cricket with my brother, playing Care Bears with my sister. Just the things that we all did\u2014OK, maybe not. But look, we didn\u2019t necessarily have everything, but I can\u2019t think of anything important that was lacking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EMum demonstrated what true servant leadership looks like. She shaped my view of service and while she may never get the recognition that I think she deserves, I want to honour her here today, and on the special day\u2014happy birthday, Mum. [Applause] You\u2019re using up my time; I do not have this time to spare!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ELook, I think Dad would be so proud if he was still with us. Proud\u2014probably also annoying numerous people in the gallery with a ton of anecdotes from the previous 53 State openings of Parliament. But it was Dad that took me to air shows at \u014Chakea as a kid that set me on the path that I followed, and Dad set me on this one as well. But I believe it takes a village, and I am a child of a huge village. I\u2019ve been shaped by faith, family, and the forces. The village I started in encompassed All Saints\u2019 Church, Winchester School, Palmerston North Boys\u2019 High Boys\u2019 Brigade, a whole host of music teachers and bands, and I want to acknowledge all of those who shaped my first 20 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge my National Party family, particularly Lorraine Pollock, Bruce Little, and the entire team from \u014Ctaki. Now, I\u2019m here for every single person in our community, but I know that I\u2019m here because of you, because of your trust, your encouragement, and your support. Thank you. Can I also acknowledge the previous 12 MPs for \u014Ctaki since 1893, in particular the Hon Nathan Guy, and I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the Hon Roger Sowry and the Rt Hon Jim Bolger.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ETo our new Prime Minister, absent though he may be today, I want to congratulate him on his new role and thank him for his leadership, his friendship, and his guidance over a few years now. To Shirley Sowry, the HQ team, the board, my fellow MPs, Ben and the Young Nats, everyone from National: thank you. I love being a part of our team, anchored by the same values, encouraged by each other, and inspired by the opportunity we have to deliver for Kiwis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ECan I acknowledge all the parliamentary staff who work, who serve in this place with grace and professionalism, and the entire class of 2023 from across every party. We are here to serve, and what better example of service could we ask for than the women and the men that I served with in our Defence Force in New Zealand, through the Pacific, into Asia and Europe. Sailors, soldiers, and aviators who do not seek war or conflict, but their service is such that they are willing to operate in those environments in order to bring about a lasting peace. E ng\u0101 toa o Te Ope K\u0101tua [To the warriors of the Defence Force], to my fellow warriors of the Defence Force, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Kei te mihi. [I greet you.] I acknowledge all of you and the life-shaping journey that you\u2019ve taken me on for the past 23 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EIn Afghanistan, I served with decorated heroes like Lance-Corporal Leon Smith. Now, Leon paid the ultimate price, in full, and I want to acknowledge\u2014[Hon Chris Penk passes a glass of water]\u2014thanks, brother\u2014all of my brothers that I served with who lost their life while serving their country, whether in New Zealand or overseas. Leon, Nick, Muddy, Diesel, Ben, and Dan. E kore r\u0101tou e kaum\u0101tuatia. [They will not grow old.] They shall grow not old, but I will not forget them. In my service, I seek to represent all of those who preserve our democracy but don\u2019t always get to practise it: our Defence Force, police, fire, paramedics, every first responder. I pledge to be your voice in this House, and enough of you have my phone number to ensure that I never forget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EDuring my service I was privileged to work for their Royal Highnesses the Prince and Princess of Wales. It was a role that, like being an MP, it doesn\u2019t make me special but you get to work with some really special people and do some really special things. On one occasion, I remember we were leaving the museum at Wigram, and as the Duke and Duchess got dragged away towards the cars, I noticed a girl down the end of the line that didn\u2019t get to give her flowers to the Princess. So as the motorcade was waiting, I raced over there and I knelt down next to her and I said, \u201CWould you like me to take those flowers and give them to the Princess for you?\u201D It\u2019s always the Princess. \u201COh, yes, please,\u201D she said, and I took them and was able to pass them on. Someone said to me afterwards, \u201CYou know, Tim, what\u2019s the point? There are thousands of kids around New Zealand that never got to give their flowers to the Princess. You can never make a difference.\u201D I said, \u201CYeah, you\u2019re probably right. But I bet it made a difference to her.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EYou know, one person is always enough. I\u2019ve always believed that the ones matter; they add up, they multiply, they have this rippling effect. In the Air Force, it was one tourist on Mount Arthur; it was a hunter in the Ureweras; it was a school teacher in the Tararuas; it was a family in rising floodwaters; a soldier whose life was in danger in East Timor; a mother and a baby in the Solomon Islands. In my career, in my service, in my life, one person has always been enough and I\u2019m painfully aware of my limitations. I know that inevitably I\u2019m going to say the wrong thing and I\u2019m going to do the wrong thing. I have no silver bullets. I know I can\u2019t change the world, but I do believe that I can make a world of difference to the ones that I meet in Foxton, in Levin, in \u014Ctaki, Waikanae, Paraparaumu, and everywhere in between. They may be just one, but people matter to me and one is always enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EImagine, if you will, a community of people inspired and motivated by the ones. I believe our country is at its best when we do community well. Too often these days, people look for community online, but all we find are echo chambers that reinforce a narrow view of a diverse world. Community calls us to reach out to cross divides, to grow in empathy and understanding, not division and intolerance; to celebrate our differences, not try and eliminate them. I want to work as an MP to break down division, be that between urban and rural, young and old, between ethnicities or religions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ECommunity is the long game that will heal those divides. And so often, we expect the Government to provide every solution for every need and want. Well, I believe in limited government; that, actually, we all hold solutions to many of the problems we face; that we are at our best when the community response can lead the Government response. Community balances the utilitarian perspective against the needs of those that live in the margins, the few that feel they will never be a part of the many. That\u2019s why I love National\u2019s social investment approach: because it\u2019s about outcomes; it\u2019s about targeted results for those that would otherwise be left behind. It\u2019s acknowledging that we don\u2019t all have the same start line in life, but we all deserve an equal shot at the same finish. So I believe in a community where we can have compassion for those at the extremes, but we can still value personal responsibility, competitive enterprise, and reward for good old-fashioned hard work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ESo I come to this place motivated by people, inspired by service, passionate about community. But most of all, I just love this country. I\u2019ve been privileged in my service to see how respected and coveted our nation is abroad, but I wonder sometimes if we\u2019ve lost a sense of\u2014as the great philosopher Fred Dagg said\u2014a sense of just how lucky we are, how amazing our people, how incredible our backyard. As much as I want to build a road to Levin\u2014and I really want to build that road to Levin\u2014as much as I want to see our culture shift from compliance to judgment to focus on effectiveness and efficiency, not just process and publicity; actually, deep down, I really want to see us united as a nation, the way that Kiwis unite at Eden Park and London pubs and in conflict zones around the world. In those places, we rally around the national identity, not based on geography or ethnicity, but grounded in our shared ideals, the Kiwi way of life, and the belief that everyone deserves an equal opportunity in Godzone. Maybe that can be the starting point for this difficult conversation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t pretend to have all the answers, but this country matters to me, and it matters that we acknowledge our past, that we right wrongs, that we celebrate our differences. But it also matters that we are defined by the kind of people that we are, and most fundamentally of all, we are all Kiwi. My style of politics is anchored by the belief that that which is common to all of us is a powerful gravity\u2014far greater than that or those who would seek to divide. That\u2019s why I wear the kiwi as a visible and outward sign of an inward and invisible bond that we can all share. That same symbol was painted on artillery and aircraft that my grandparents fought in and on during World War II.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EFor 23 years I had the privilege of carrying that symbol, that patch, on my uniform and on the aircraft that I flew. In this one small image lies an indisputably strong brand; an immediate point of difference from our nearest neighbours that reminds me that we shouldn\u2019t try and be the best small version of another country, but the biggest and best version of ourselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ESo I finish where I started. I still believe that the boy does not define the man. Our past does not define our future. Where we are today does not need to limit where we could be or what we could achieve. I stand in this place with hope, with genuine hope that greater things are to come and greater things are still to be done in this city, in our regions, and throughout this land. And if those words don\u2019t resonate or reflect our current reality, then my work here, as part of a strong National Party team, is to join those dots and to serve in such a way that that hope is fulfilled; that all Kiwis have the quality of life, the public services, the education, and the opportunities that we all deserve, no matter our current circumstance or starting place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EFinally, if I can, to my girls. Lucy, I\u2019m inspired by your willingness to give anything a go. Not enough for me to try eating salad, but I\u2019m inspired by your attitude. Becky, sometimes your determination challenges me. I know I try and pretend it comes from your mum, but actually it is your empathy and your compassion that challenge me the most and I seek to replicate a little of that in my service. Alice, I love the way that you find such unhindered joy in the everyday. I wish you\u2019d find a little bit less of that after your bedtime, but we all need more of that in this tall poppy world. And to Emma, you have borne the brunt of it over the last few years as we embarked on this crazy adventure. You have kept the ship afloat. You have parented alone. You\u2019ve put up with every sigh, every eye roll, every tantrum, every argument over what to wear, and that was all just from me. You\u2019re the yin to my yang, you\u2019re the tonic to my gin, you are the glue that holds it all together, and I love you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EAnd so, I care about our country, our community, our people, and service. I hope that at the nexus of those four things we will find a country that not just these young women up here but every generation to come will be proud of. E k\u012B ana m\u0101 whero, m\u0101 pango ka oti ai te mahi. N\u014D reira e ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 rangatira kua whakarauika mai nei i t\u0113nei w\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, mihi mai, karanga mai, mihi mai, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E[As the saying goes, with collaboration will the work be done. Therefore, to the authorities, to the noble leaders who have assembled here at this time, thanks and greetings, thank you for your welcome, greetings to all of us. Thank you.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf743a2385b347c483797ca0ea6a30ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf743a2385b347c483797ca0ea6a30ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just let the House know that following the speech by T\u0101kuta Ferris, who will be called shortly, the House will set itself aside for the dinner break. We are clearly going to go past 6 o\u2019clock, but we\u2019ll just wait till all your people are in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u00222a59a51429ca4461b81093165a78c9ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a59a51429ca4461b81093165a78c9ca\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E E te Whare, kei ng\u0101 mana katoa, kei ng\u0101 uri o Te Tai Tonga, t\u0101tou tahi, te iwi M\u0101ori kua whakarauika mai, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou. E te P\u012Bka, e Gerry, t\u0113n\u0101 koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[To the House, to all of the leaders, to the descendants of Te Tai Tonga, all of us, the M\u0101ori people who have assembled here, greetings to all of us. Mr Speaker, Gerry, greetings.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EIn 1835, 28 October, M\u0101ori declared their independence and sovereignty to the world and the world acknowledged it. He Whakaputanga o te Rangatiratanga o Nu Tirene, the Declaration of Independence of New Zealand, enacted by the authority of Te Whakaminenga o ng\u0101 Rangatira o ng\u0101 Hap\u016B o Nu Tireni, the Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand. The declaration was made and the country of New Zealand came into being.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThe declaration announced the arrival of M\u0101ori into the international community and was a clear signal that M\u0101ori had the intention and capacity to develop internationally and independently in trade and diplomatic endeavour, both on domestic and international fronts. These things will not be lost. They will not be forgotten, will not be relegated to the dark corners of a colonial history. They have been maintained, they have endured, and we will continue to nurture and grow them in the hearts and minds of mokopuna and the nation; a national consciousness of a new Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThe declaration asserted four key themes. Number one, M\u0101ori sovereignty\u2014sovereign authority over New Zealand, Nu Tireni. Number two, M\u0101ori would not accept any form of law or government, any form of K\u0101wanatanga, unless appointed by them. Number three, the chiefs would meet once a year, in congress, in autumn, to frame laws, maintain peace, and regulate trade. And number four, they invited King William IV to continue as protector of their infant state, and they in turn would continue to protect his subjects who resided in their country, Nu Tireni.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EKo te Whakaputanga te tuakana; ko Te Tiriti o Waitangi te teina.\u00A0\u00A0\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[The Declaration is the senior; the Treaty of Waitangi is the junior.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThe declaration is the foremost constitutional document; Te Tiriti o Waitangi is the second. Mana motuhake is described in the declaration as emanating from the land\u2014\u201Cte mana i te wenua\u201D\u2014and is therefore inherent in every tangata whenua, be they kaum\u0101tua, pakeke, tamariki, or mokopuna. [elders, seniors, children or grandchildren.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EMana motuhake is not something we declare; Mana motuhake is something we possess. He iwi motuhake te iwi M\u0101ori.\u00A0\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[The M\u0101ori people are a people like no other.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori people are a sovereign people. That fact that the Crown signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi directly with the chiefs of the confederation\u2014a clearly defined sovereign entity\u2014acknowledged that M\u0101ori sovereignty was paramount in 1840, and that the M\u0101ori partner in the dual agreement was indeed the principal partner in possession of 100 percent of control, power, and authority over all land and resources in Aotearoa New Zealand. This did not change on 6 February 1840, as the M\u0101ori text of Te Tiriti o Waitangi was presented to the chiefs of the confederation and subsequently signed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThe idea that a fierce and independent people, who had actively asserted their independence only four years and three months earlier, and had clearly stated they would not allow any form of K\u0101wanatanga, any form of government, to exist in their lands unless appointed by them, would somehow now agree to surrender their independence, cede their sovereignty, hand over K\u0101wanatanga, the government of their entire country, to a people from a foreign power, is nothing short of preposterous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EIf anyone needs help understanding which text is the legally binding text, they need look no further than this quote by one of the longest-serving Chief Justices of Aotearoa Dame Sian Elias, who said, and I quote, \u201Cit can\u2019t be disputed that the [text of the] Treaty is \u2026 the M\u0101ori text.\u201D Why we continue to wallow in the ambiguity of interpretation is beyond me. It is time for this country to mature and let the English text of Te Tiriti o Waitangi be laid to rest. The time has come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThrough the process of induction into this House, I note there is only recognition of one sovereign, namely the King of England. Could it be that the very people who were invited into a sovereign land by a sovereign people, now consider themselves the sole sovereign of that land? The answer, as we all know today, is no, they are not the sole sovereign of this land. Yet they have maintained the position and systems that would render the true sovereign invisible\u2014well, at least for a period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EBut that time ran out in earnest in 1975, as Te Ao M\u0101ori drew breath, raised its head up, and dared to look to the future. With unwavering dedication, led by visionary thinkers such as Whina Cooper and Joe Hawke with self-determination, Whatarangi Winiata with iwi development, Taihakurei Eddie Durie in M\u0101ori law, Hirini Moko Mead and Piri Sciascia in cultural revitalisation, Ranginui Walker and Lisa Tuhiwai Smith in m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori and academia, Mason Durie and the m\u0101reikura Rangimarie Rose Pere in M\u0101ori health, and Moana Jackson and Mereana Pitman in matters of Te Tiriti o Waitangi and constitutional law. From that time till now, we have been in the process of undoing the countless, unthinkable, unscrupulous deeds that first sought to annihilate and then assimilate a people to oblivion. Yet this is not our history. This is not our story. This is not our reality. And it is most certainly not our future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo to this House I say: fear not. Fear not that you are incapable of identifying your sovereign counterpart in this country, for I am here today to clarify for you and to declare to you that I am the sovereign. And that as I look at my own tamariki, I know that they are the sovereign. And as I look at my parents and all of my kaum\u0101tua gathered here, I know that they are the sovereign. For the M\u0101ori people are a sovereign people, and we have never ceded our sovereignty, we have never abdicated our sovereign authority, and we have never ever left this land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI stand here as a reminder that the Crown signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi with the chiefs of the confederation, in recognition of their sovereignty\u2014the very same chiefs that the Governor-General acknowledged in her Speech from the Throne on Wednesday of last week. You see, the relevance of the chiefs of the confederation is not lost on the Governor-General.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI know many would rather we forget about 1975 and the establishment of the Waitangi Tribunal, and even more so 1985, when that tribunal won the right to investigate historical breaches of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, dating back to 1840. That\u2019s right, e te iwi, when the tribunal was established, it could only consider Te Tiriti o Waitangi moving forward. Heaven forbid there\u2019d be a light shone into the dark corners and recesses of the colonial history and narrative by a now highly educated and experienced bunch of radical M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EIt took 10 more years of fighting to win that right, and in 1985 we were 145 years into the Tiriti relationship with the Crown. Yet it would take only seven more years to prosecute the Crown and its Government, find them guilty, and settle the first Treaty settlement in 1992\u2014the fisheries settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EYou see, for a long time now, the Crown and its Governments have been losing ground on their monopoly over power and resources in this country\u2014a monopoly that they have held and enjoyed for far too long. From that time until today, the Government\u2019s vice-like grip on control, power, and authority over resources has slowly but surely been undone. Its rule by iron fist has all but been halted, as the principal partner to Te Tiriti o Waitangi regains their feet and we begin to re-establish ourselves economically, politically, in education, socially, and most importantly culturally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EBelief in Te Ao M\u0101ori continues to grow. The seeds that were sown in 1975 that were tirelessly nurtured, tended by generations of M\u0101ori\u2014generations who would never live to see the fruits of their labour, but had unwavering belief in their t\u012Bpuna, in their whakapapa, in their mokopuna, and in their future. These seeds have grown into T\u014Dtara haemata [great leaders], and they now stand strong and fervent all over this country. We know we were prepared for this job and we are ready, and Aotearoa hou is within sight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve not come here to speak about myself or the nature of how I arrive in this Whare. I\u2019ve come to talk about our people: the many independent nations, the hap\u016B, the iwi, the tangata whenua of this land, the principal partner in Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the authors of He Whakaputanga o te Rangatiratanga o Nu Tirene, the Declaration of Independence of New Zealand, the document that constituted this country we all call New Zealand. Yes, my friends, e te wh\u0101nau, Te Tiriti o Waitangi did not create a country; it established a constitutional relationship between two sovereign nations, one in the South Pacific, the other in the north-western hemisphere. It afforded P\u0101keh\u0101 the dignity of self-government in a foreign land\u2014a land upon which their Queen\u2019s own law and authority had no rights nor jurisdiction to exist. It afforded the Queen the right to purchase land in another sovereign\u2019s country, enabling her to care for, to nurture, and to grow her own people. Quite the magnanimous gesture, on behalf of those chiefs, in 1840.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EIn recognition of the rights the Queen and her people had been granted, she in turn responded reciprocally, extending the rights and privileges of her own people in England to her host nation, via article 3 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. This koha, this gesture of goodwill, did not come at the expense of pre-existing M\u0101ori rights. We were granted the additional rights of British subjects; we were not subjugated. This symbolic gesture was a tatau pounamu [enduring peace; binding contract], from one sovereign to another, in recognition of the significant rights and privileges she and her people had been granted. E te P\u012Bka, e Gerry, might I say, magnanimous indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m here to speak on behalf of the people who, despite the relentless onslaught of colonisation in all its guises, continue to maintain deep whakapapa connections to their land, their k\u0101inga, their moana, their language, and their culture\u2014not as theatrical expressions, as some may have you believe, but as an immovable foundation, an ethos, a philosophy, a world view, a kaupapa that drives every breath they take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThis is the dream that was dreamt all of those years ago, in 1975. I am indeed the product of the self-determining actions of M\u0101ori in the 1970s and 1980s, and every year since. I understand completely that the current tension that exists between K\u0101wanatanga and rangatiratanga, or between M\u0101ori and the Government\u2014exacerbated in the extreme by the current iteration\u2014is a direct result of the blistering speed at which we, the principal partner in Te Tiriti o Waitangi, are reclaiming, reinstating, rebuilding, reinvigorating, reimagining, and reasserting ourselves in our own country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EMy message to all of the people in Aotearoa is this: fear not, for your rights were gifted to you in Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Take a personal responsibility for upholding Te Tiriti in your everyday life, for it is your personal Bill of Rights here in Aotearoa. It is your family\u2019s declaration and ultimately the constitutional bedrock of your rights to be here in Aotearoa. Treasure it. It was a gift from our ancestors to you. Yet despite all of this, the level of ambiguity that remains around the nature of the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship, the role of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and the place and responsibility of Parliament and Government in it somehow continues to defy explanation. Could it be that the political agenda of the P\u0101keh\u0101 partner is aided and abetted by ambiguity? Successive Governments and generations of P\u0101keh\u0101 settlers and their families have benefited and been privileged by this ambiguity, but everything comes to an end. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EClarity is what my generation of M\u0101ori demand, and we are well equipped to assist\u2014informed by 48 years of determined action from the tribunal; 48 years of prosecution experience against the Crown and its Government. We understand the story, the context, and the events perfectly well. The history, the experience, and the reality of the once-silent partner has now been unearthed, investigated, corroborated, and laid bare for all to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ETo my fellow MPs: if you are unaware of what I speak of, then I would say you are underprepared\u2014under-equipped\u2014for your role as an MP. The Te Paparahi o Te Raki determinations of 2014 were a watershed moment in the history of the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship. The determination that M\u0101ori did not cede their sovereignty by signing Te Tiriti o Waitangi would alter the course of history forever. The current findings of the subsequent inquiry, entitled Tino Rangatira me te K\u0101wanatanga, are set to take the 2014 findings even further and require the Crown to revisit the constitutional settings of this country to more appropriately give effect to and embody Te Tiriti o Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EMany politicians have quoted Apirana Ngata in relation to Te Tiriti o Waitangi and his views of the early 1900s. What they failed to realise is that when Ngata, Pomare, and Te Rangi Hiroa came to prominence, the greatest challenge was not Te Tiriti o Waitangi or the revival of te reo M\u0101ori; it was saving their people from extinction. This was the blood of M\u0101ori at the turn of the 1900s as the population plummeted to around 40,000. The view of the day was that the most effective way to preserve the population was to assimilate rapidly to the now-dominant way of life, the P\u0101keh\u0101 way, hence Apirana\u2019s great saying, \u201CKo t\u014D ringa ki ng\u0101 r\u0101kau a te P\u0101keh\u0101\u201D\u2014your hand to the ways of the P\u0101keh\u0101\u2014as a means of preserving the life blood of his people.\u00A0\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThis did not preclude Apirana from the notion of research and discovery of new knowledge, nor from investigation and the unearthing of new evidence and new understandings. You see, there has been no rewriting of history. There has been no reinterpretation of history. There has only been an unearthing of history, the investigation of history, and the discovery of new understandings\u2014which has ultimately led this nation to the current understanding of our dual history. And whilst this might not suit the agenda of those who seek to maintain the status quo, that does not change the fact that this is the current understanding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EIf anyone thinks my explanations to be fanciful, much of what I have quoted here is referenced from the He Tohu exhibition, the national exhibit of the founding documents of our country: He Whakaputanga, the declaration; Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the Treaty; and the Women\u2019s Suffrage Bill are located just across the road in Archives New Zealand, an exhibit that is visited by thousands of schoolchildren every year. So if you think I\u2019m a lot to handle, wait till you get a load of your kids or your grandkids.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo let me conclude by saying I\u2019m not here to service the needs of this House; I\u2019m here to contest it and the manner in which it exercises authority over things it has no authority over. I am here to represent the 12,800 M\u0101ori in Te Tai Tonga who voted me into this position to represent their views, give voice to their aspirations, and be a light for them. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori does not presume to speak for all M\u0101ori. We understand perfectly well there are many colonised M\u0101ori trapped out there. But we do speak from a purely M\u0101ori perspective, for and on behalf of a purely M\u0101ori constituency. I have to ask the House: is that not pure democracy, pure democratic process, in action? Yet Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori continues to be unapologetic, championing M\u0101ori issues. We are continually called out as radical, racist, promoting apartheid\u2014I must say the irony of it is not lost on me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo we go to raise an army of voters\u2014young voters, young M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori voters; tangata whenua and tangata Tiriti alike who will arrive in ever-increasing numbers into the future; numbers great enough to contest this democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo to all our wh\u0101nau, to all our people, stand up. Stand up and be the light. Be the light for your wh\u0101nau, be the light for your communities. Toit\u016B te Whakaputanga; toit\u016B Te Tiriti o Waitangi. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[Honour the Declaration; honour the Treaty of Waitangi. Greetings to all of us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EWaiata\u2014\u201CTiaho iho r\u0101\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EHaka\u2014\u201CT\u0113nei te r\u016Br\u016B\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.23 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002284793b01b5a948659c797523e5f399be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284793b01b5a948659c797523e5f399be\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this debate be now adjourned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227108343bdff14df29217621550468da3\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022980c1382154444ceaf3c46b7c4eec7f0\u0022\u003EUrgency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022049e5c122c4b44bf8dd373f11d060646\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022049e5c122c4b44bf8dd373f11d060646\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That urgency be accorded the introduction and passing through all stages of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill, the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill, and the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThis urgency motion is required for the Government to give effect to key elements of its 100-day plan of action. All three bills are agreed between\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224058dd6c0d214787831a8d5b1b9365f6\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Great plan!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022522a9689e61d47718c642e7c55ef7900\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: It is a fantastic plan. Very busy Government; ambitious programme of work. In order to give effect to this ambitious programme of work, from time to time the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fbeeb19bd174f7f9977aa857bdb095b\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Give us some vision, mate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e773ba7ea654d3dbb3d6fa1d0ecd5d9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as the member squawking opposite knows\u2014sometimes needs to accord urgency to items of business, and I therefore move this motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022debe55486b60468cb4efe9c39a920ccb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That urgency be accorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002232f306bfe0d54f08ac2c89a1af7e4b6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232f306bfe0d54f08ac2c89a1af7e4b6e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I understand it is the intention of the Government to introduce these bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226cb1b905eb3641038b534a67ed58ac6c\u0022\u003EIntroduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002206a862c415444dceb2ca2f9e7f259887\u0022\u003EIntroduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002227d1c6335943412e812d3dd9a949a853\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227d1c6335943412e812d3dd9a949a853\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EFair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8b38b904cee418aaadd9e25ead60c70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8b38b904cee418aaadd9e25ead60c70\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those bills are set down for first reading immediately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022610f550fb69d4cdf970accb0555a4c72\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d73ab6515afe46758f61196da05f8b83\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4f796c749fc4b1080ee8c2b3a2e51ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4f796c749fc4b1080ee8c2b3a2e51ea\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement for the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259a7ee40b20e4115836af258c3e8700e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695d7d570f244886923d993d0e76a7af\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt is a highly symbolic and important act that we take today because we are remedying one of the greatest stains of the outgoing Government, and that is the stain of the cost of living crisis they have left behind them. Under the watch of the previous Government, inflation was allowed to ramp on unchecked, out of target, for 2\u00BD years and that is far too long and has left New Zealanders suffering. So we, in this new Government, are committed to taking the actions needed to address the cost of living, and we understand that inflation is our enemy. It is our economic enemy, it has corroded the living standards of New Zealanders, it has taken pay from their bank accounts, it has made their lives more expensive. We cannot have good employment outcomes; we cannot have a good economy unless we get inflation under control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo today, in this bill, we will be focusing the Reserve Bank on that objective: the economic objective of stability and the general level of prices. To do that, we will undo the experiment that the past Government embarked on. That was an experiment which they decided to embark on after 30 years of successful monetary policy in which, with one mandate, the Reserve Bank had kept inflation under control. But members opposite decided to make a change and introduce a dual mandate, and today we will remove that dual mandate; we will remove the economic objective in this Act to support maximum sustainable employment. That will return the Reserve Bank to a single mandate for monetary policy of achieving and maintaining stability in the general level of prices over the medium term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENow, I want to acknowledge the ACT Party because both the National Party and ACT Party policy programmes for this Government set out our intention to introduce legislation to remove this dual mandate and to get the Reserve Bank focused on putting the lid back on inflation. We have committed to introducing this legislation within our first 100 days in Government, to make our intentions crystal clear, and I intend for this bill to be passed under urgency to amend the Act before Christmas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhen the dual mandate was added in 2019 it undid success in the past and, as we\u2019ve seen, inflation in recent years has been consistently well above the Reserve Bank\u2019s target of achieving and maintaining annual inflation between 1 and 3 percent over the medium term, as measured by the Consumers Price Index. That persistently above-target inflation is negatively impacting hard-working New Zealanders who are trying to meet their day-to-day living costs. We need to ensure that monetary policy decision makers have no doubt that busting inflation is our goal, and to do that they must have a much stronger focus on achieving price stability. I believe that having a dual mandate clouds monetary policy. By returning to a single objective, focused on achieving and maintaining price stability, the task of the monetary policy committee (MPC) is clearer, simpler, and therefore more likely to be met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt is perhaps characteristic of the outgoing administration that where there could be one priority they tended to pick nine; that where there were three things that could have been achieved, they tried nine and achieved none. Under a single mandate approach it is also easier to determine when the monetary policy committee has or has not fulfilled its primary function. Now, I anticipate some of the comments from the members opposite, and I say that it\u2019s important to note that returning to a single mandate will not require the monetary policy committee to discount the impacts of monetary policy on the real economy. Flexible inflation targeting, whereby the MPC has regard to the impact of monetary policy on the broader economy when determining how quickly to return inflation to target has been central to New Zealand\u2019s successful inflation targeting regime for many years, and was the case prior to Robertson\u2019s dual mandate hitting the books, regardless of whether there is a single or dual mandate, that remains the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c534f67847314cb5863f4b0881b2d11c\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What does Orr say in your meetings? What does Orr say? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022375f45c7490f44cb9356a9e1bf68b17d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: So the member opposite, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, asks, \u201CWhat does Adrian Orr say?\u201D This is what he says in a letter that he has written to me. He says that \u201CThe Reserve Bank is supportive of your intention to amend the Reserve Bank Act to focus the economic objective of the monetary policy committee on achieving and maintaining price stability.\u201D And he says, \u201CThe intended focus is consistent with the views we expressed in our recent monetary policy committee remit review, published in June 2023.\u201D And I\u2019d encourage the member opposite to read that review which made clear the Reserve Bank\u2019s view that there needed to be a clearer statement of priority on the inflation objective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe Reserve Bank goes on to say, \u201CGiving the inflation objective priority will assist the credibility of the inflation target.\u201D Because let\u2019s face it, while the Labour Government were in charge, the credibility of that target was eroded. That\u2019s not in the Reserve Bank piece; that\u2019s my editorialising. \u201CMaintaining the flexible inflation targeting approach\u201D\u2014I return to the Reserve Bank\u2019s comments\u2014\u201Cwill best minimise unnecessary instability in output, interest rates, and the exchange rate, and simplifying the remit will clarify the Reserve Bank\u2019s operational independence.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4bc274e6b254610ae42ebdf4698bc31\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Can you table the letter, Nicola?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223891a4137ac94c1aa5b626b3831b6476\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very happy to table that letter for the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EDocument laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt is my intention, upon this bill passing in this House, that I will also publish a revised remit and charter for the Reserve Bank, which is necessary given the changed mandate. Let the message be very simple and very clear, let there be no confusion: ours is a Government which is going to get inflation under control. The Reserve Bank have the primary instruments for achieving that, and so we ask that they have that clear objective. But we know that we too must do our bit, that monetary policy needs mates. We know that the fiscal policies of the outgoing Government directly contributed to the inflationary position we are in today, and so this is but the first step in an agenda from our Government to get the cost of living under control, to strengthen the productivity of our economy, and to deliver better economic outcomes for all New Zealanders. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00229679dda67e274893a2c06a4cb140b423\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229679dda67e274893a2c06a4cb140b423\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, point of order. I just wanted to clarify that that letter will indeed be tabled and disseminated for the sake of the argument that we\u2019ll be having under urgency over the next few hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8fd01d211d6407287c152121f4c923e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8fd01d211d6407287c152121f4c923e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I believe the Minister clarified that when she spoke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002249b50f1b495d465ea94873686f252a23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249b50f1b495d465ea94873686f252a23\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, welcome to episode one of the new Government\u2019s version of Back to the Future. Here we are taking us back at warp speed to 1989. In 1989, I was in seventh form, Ronald Reagan was still in the White House, the Berlin Wall was coming down, the thing called the World Wide Web was in Tim Berners-Lee\u2019s mind, and it was also a period of time in New Zealand where, indeed, we had seen periods of extraordinary inflation. I remember growing up in the 1980s and seeing inflation at levels in double digits consistently and seeing the impact that that had on society. The Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act of 1989 was a direct response to that. It was also, in large part, a response to the actions of the then just-departed National Party Prime Minister Sir Robert Muldoon, who ran riot as both the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance and put New Zealand in a position where we almost went broke, where the Reserve Bank was required to make sure that it went to ambassadors overseas and asked them to draw down foreign currency on their credit cards because New Zealand\u2019s foreign reserves had been drawn down so badly. So, in 1989, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act was indeed world leading, but 30-odd years later, without a review of any substance, it was no longer world leading. It had slipped behind, and that is why the previous Government announced a review of the Reserve Bank Act on coming into office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s very telling that the first two bills that this Government brings to the House are actually focused, deliberately focused, on taking away the focus on jobs and wages. They\u2019re the two things\u2014the first actions of this Government are to take us back to 1989 and to take the focus off jobs and wages, because that is what this legislation and, indeed, the next bill that is to come do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is an unnecessary, short-sighted bill. It is not evidence based. It won\u2019t do the things that the National Party are telling New Zealanders it will do. They tell them it will reduce the cost of living, and we will find as we go through this debate today that that is in fact not the case. This is a bill that is designed simply to take us backwards to a time that has long since passed in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe other point I\u2019d like to make at this point in the debate is to indicate that, obviously, the Labour Party will be opposing the bill, but also our very, very deep concern about the fact that this bill is not being referred to a select committee at this point. When we made the change to go the other way, we had a full public consultation process run by an independent panel and then we came back and then we put it through the House and put it through a select committee. That is what should be happening in this piece of legislation, and members opposite, who have often called for bills to go to select committee, might actually want to reflect on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe issue here is that this is not evidence-based policy, and to pick up just one of many of the comments that the Minister made in introducing it, there actually has not been a relationship between a country\u2019s inflationary trajectory and its central bank mandate over the last couple of years. Let\u2019s just look at it. For New Zealand and Australia, who both have dual mandates, our inflation peaked at either 7.2 percent or 7.8 percent, but in the UK, which has got a central bank with a primary price stability mandate, inflation peaked at 11.1 percent. So there\u2019s no correlation there, as the member opposite might like to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is important in the economy to make sure that people can do two things at once. I know it\u2019s hard for the Government, but it is important. Mary Daly, who was a member of the US Federal Reserve, put it this way: \u201CThe enduring lesson of my childhood is that people need both jobs and stable prices. That is why a dual mandate is not a choice between two desirable things. It is a balance meant to deliver on a singular goal\u2014a sustainable and expanding economy that works for everyone. That is the foundation of economic security.\u201D That\u2019s what the Reserve Bank should be doing: contributing to the overall economic wellbeing of New Zealanders. We changed the purpose of this Act, we changed the objectives of this Act to do two things: keep prices under control and keep people in work, and that is a laudable goal\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022080e1283d30742829ea639ea8d65a962\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022080e1283d30742829ea639ea8d65a962\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4ec7f3cee5e4c3887f688b90c3a0d22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4ec7f3cee5e4c3887f688b90c3a0d22\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. It\u2019ll come as no surprise to members opposite that, of course, the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand opposes this bill. We oppose this bill for three really, really simple reasons, and we\u2019ve got five minutes to lay it out for the members opposite. The first, as was elucidated by the former Minister: this actually makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. The second is that it is unnecessary to change the law to actually get this outcome, as the Minister says that she wants to achieve, as reflected in the regulatory impact statement. And the third is that the Government still seem to want to have the monetary policy committee (MPC) have regard to maximum sustainable employment. This is unnecessary. It is unnecessary to change the law, it makes no difference, and they still want the monetary policy committee to have regard to maximum sustainable employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWhat that means is that what we are currently debating is largely, as far as I can kind of ascertain, something which oftentimes those who are sitting on the Government benches allege us of, which is empty virtue-signalling. Virtue signalling is defined, basically, as saying that you deeply care about something and then engaging in an action to ostensibly achieve that thing, oftentimes knowing full well that the evidence is not on your side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s worthwhile to just unpack a bit of those three points, given that we\u2019ve got the time to do so and given that we\u2019re in urgency. I\u2019m looking forward to the committee of the whole House, where I\u2019ll be able to put a number of these questions to the Minister, but also, hopefully, by which point in time we\u2019ll have that letter as referenced earlier disseminated for all of us to be able to debate fulsomely. Just on the point of this making absolutely no difference, the Minister of Finance\u2014congratulations\u2014will be aware that when we were sitting in the Finance and Expenditure Committee, oftentimes actually working together to try and get more information out of the Government of the time, we had a hearing from Adrian Orr and, obviously, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand on 24\u00A0November 2022 where I put to the Governor the question of whether that dual mandate had made any discernible difference in their decision making with regard to monetary policy. He said, on the record, \u201CNo is the answer.\u201D I quote: \u201CWe haven\u2019t come across any trade-offs of employment versus inflation. There is no conflict.\u201D Therein lies the first premise: this is unnecessary because it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to how the monetary policy committee is approaching its inflation-taming mandate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe second thing is that it is unnecessary to change the law to achieve this outcome that the Government apparently wants, and that is outlined very clearly in the regulatory impact statement, which has just been tabled and is therefore available to any members of the public who may be punishing themselves, tuned into Parliament tonight. It says\u2014and I quote; this is obviously from Treasury\u2014\u201COwing to the value of an enduring and stable legislative regime for the Reserve Bank, the Treasury\u2019s preference is for a new MPC Remit (only) to be issued, although it is recognised that issuing a new MPC Remit without amending the Act cannot fully meet the Government\u2019s commitment to remove the dual mandate.\u201D What is laid out there in public service workers\u2019 language is basically that the Government cannot achieve its commitment, which is relatively nonsensical in the first place, unless it passes this legislation, but it can achieve the ends that it is trying to achieve without the means of needing this legislation and wasting hours of the House\u2019s time in passing that legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe third point is that we just heard outlined in the Minister\u2019s own speech that she and the Government still want the monetary policy committee to have an eye on maximum sustainable employment, which I think, by the way, it\u2019s worthwhile unpacking that we still don\u2019t have a meaningful kind of definition for\u2014but, none the less, the Government still want the MPC to have regard to that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, therefore, the question really remains what the point is of this law that we are now debating in the House tonight and that we will spend hours working through and wasting time on to do something that could simply be achieved by the Minister putting forward that new MPC remit based on her own advice. Madam Speaker, this is a waste of time and the Greens oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a241b0de3ee14306ac4d4692f3c64dc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a241b0de3ee14306ac4d4692f3c64dc9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker, I just want to clarify for those that have been in the House for a while that under the Standing Orders, the first reading is now five-minute calls, apart from the first call\u2014just if there are some people that haven\u2019t been aware of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00229bef22ab023842ada413df98a4dedcc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bef22ab023842ada413df98a4dedcc6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. In a rare burst of honesty, we just heard a Green member finish her speech by saying this is a waste of time. I completely agree with her and that was a good description of the speech she gave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe heard from Grant Robertson, and the most interesting thing in his speech was that he said he made it to seventh form\u2014not something I would have guessed\u2014but I think we can be pretty sure that he didn\u2019t do maths or economics, because he tried to argue that because Australia has a dual mandate and England doesn\u2019t, and England had higher inflation than Australia at one point, the argument of removing the dual mandate is wrong. Now, no one that\u2019s thought for a moment about these things would say that there\u2019s a correlation from two data points. But I assume that Grant Robertson spent his seventh form doing art history and other things that didn\u2019t equip him for being the Minister of Finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBack here in the real world, we know the history of monetary policy. In fact, we know it a long way back. Some people say that men spend too much time thinking about the Roman Empire. I don\u2019t know anything about that, but what I do know is that the Roman Empire collapsed in part because of hyperinflation and debasement of its currency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWe know that some of the most horrific events of the 20th century were in part precipitated by hyperinflation across Europe. We know that when the Governments around the world went overboard with hyperinflation, or at least excessive money printing after the global financial crisis (GFC), we saw political instability. We know that when Governments printed too much money and created stagflation in the 1970s, we had economic and political instability that led to the reforms of the late 1970s and 1980s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat we know on this side of the House is that Government has one simple job when it comes to monetary policy and that is to maintain price stability. It\u2019s to give the people reassurance that a dollar in your pocket this year will be worth a dollar next year. And as soon as you take away that certainty, people realise that their efforts don\u2019t make a difference, that some people who are asset-rich get wealthy as the Reserve Bank prints too much money. They realise that their savings aren\u2019t worth as much as they used to be, that their wages aren\u2019t worth as much as they used to be, as the thief in their pocket called inflation erodes the value of their savings and ensures that their efforts to earn their money don\u2019t buy them as much at the end of the week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe latest episode in that long historical story of Governments neglecting currency, from the denarius and the Roman Empire leading to its collapse to the GFC and the problems that we\u2019ve had over the last decade with political instability and populist movements around the world\u2014well, they\u2019ve had a more recent episode right here in New Zealand. Grant Robertson, he of the seventh form art history but no mathematics\u2014he is the guy who was responsible for printing far too much money under the monetary policy that said, \u201CHey, Reserve Bank, you don\u2019t have to maintain price stability. You can do it kind of in the medium term. You can kind of print more money. If you do something with employment or maybe house prices, then that\u2019s all OK.\u201D The Reserve Bank took the initiative, and they printed dollar after dollar. In fact, pretty soon they were printing billions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat New Zealanders saw all up and down the country was they saw the value of their savings and their wages eroding. They saw people getting stupendously wealthy, with a massive increase in house prices through the COVID period. And all of a sudden people realised that if the Government couldn\u2019t look after the value of a dollar in their pocket, it couldn\u2019t do much else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat, Madam Speaker, is why the people of New Zealand have put the empty rhetoric of the Chl\u00F6e Swarbricks and the Grant Robertsons over there and put the Government over here. That\u2019s why the Government now, in urgency, is sending a very clear message that we know the lessons of history, that we know the value of a dollar to the hard-working people who earned it. We\u2019re going to preserve the value of that dollar by making very clear that the Reserve Bank of New Zealand has one job, one job above all others, and that is to make sure that the value of a dollar in your pocket today is worth a dollar this time next year or very, very close to it, so people can have trust in the State, trust in New Zealand, and trust that their own efforts make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what it\u2019s about. Isn\u2019t it great this country\u2019s under new management that gets the basics right. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u00220578943a804d403eab6e2ac01a191de5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220578943a804d403eab6e2ac01a191de5\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to be back in this House and I\u2019d like to first congratulate you on your appointment, Madam Deputy Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to speak on behalf of New Zealand First in support of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill, and on that note, I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u0022667d882225054deabbbd6dc44eca6df5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022667d882225054deabbbd6dc44eca6df5\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. I rise on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori to speak to the first reading of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori will also be opposing this bill. The decision in 2018 that required monetary policy to be conducted so that it contributes to supporting maximum levels of sustainable employment within the economy was welcomed and long overdue. Previously, the Reserve Bank was only mandated to control inflation, which it does by changing the official cash rate, which is the interest rate at which banks can borrow money. Banks use this to help set the interest rates on loans as well as savings accounts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003ELimiting the amount of information that the Reserve Bank can consider is ridiculous. It makes absolutely no sense. Get our country back on track? This change takes us back to 1992. It takes us back in regard to the campaign slogan in the 2023 elections stated by National and the New Zealand First parties. This is the first legislation of \u201Ctaking us back\u201D to a period where the few control the many. This is what outdated legislation looks like. It is no longer 1992, for goodness\u2019 sake. We must shape legislation that ensures decision making has outcomes positive for all communities, not just a few rich that fund those in Government benches. Therefore, we are disappointed that this new Government has set a bonfire to its commitments by repealing the mandate which allows the bank to look at employment when making its decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EWe know this change will disproportionately impact tangata whenua. Why? Because members opposite, in regard to this legislation and the looming Order Paper are taking us backwards, having no regard at all for vulnerable populations. Not only will this adversely affect M\u0101ori, but you can spray a fire hose across this House and not hit any Pasifika wh\u0101nau. The Government benches are a disgrace in not having the voice of our Pasifika wh\u0101nau endeavouring to blunt the brutal legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori unemployment stubbornly sits at double that of general unemployment. M\u0101ori unemployment has risen to 7.6 percent in the year to 30 September 2023\u2014up 1.2 percentage points. There is a clear ethnic divide between those more likely to be in insecure employment. M\u0101ori and Pasifika peoples have been heavily hit by manufacturing downturns stretching back into the 1980s. M\u0101ori and Pacific workers, in particular, are disproportionately represented in precarious, temporary, and seasonal work. It\u2019s often these same workers who are having to work two, three, or sometimes even four jobs just to scrape by.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThis repeal knowingly locks out people into the last hired first fired category, and this takes us back to a period of overt known consequences and the Government benches take great delight in these known consequences. There is nothing efficient or sensible about limiting the data and inputs that inform monetary policy decisions. We must also be clear that it is very unlikely that this bill would lead to lower inflation. Where is the modelling? Where is the evidence that this repeal will have the material effect on inflation that members opposite believe will appear by petition? It is one thing to argue the cost and benefits of legislation; it is another thing to merely repeal it to pay back a few billionaires who will do well under neoliberal economics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThis repeal is being rushed through under urgency in the knowledge that the majority of citizens in Aotearoa believe Governments would never move legislation that locks in disadvantage\u2014the ability to achieve a brighter and better future for all citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThis is the first piece of legislation that sheds a shining light on a Government that is anchored by coalition agreements inspired by the advocacy of clear targeted dislikes of matters Ma\u014Dri in regards to foreseeable consequences. So many people across Aotearoa are trying to survive this cost of living crisis, which for Ma\u014Dri and working people is on top of the entrenched poverty crisis that they have been surviving for decades. Instead of urgently implementing policies to help people get into secure homes, put food on the table and pay the bills, this Government is doing the exact opposite. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u00223338336b806246478f7240fc1955ff1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223338336b806246478f7240fc1955ff1c\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m proud to stand on this side of the House as part of a Government which is totally committed to reducing the cost of living and reducing inflation. The commitment to beating inflation starts with ensuring the Reserve Bank is returning to a single mandate of keeping down inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EAt the moment, hard-working New Zealanders can\u2019t get ahead because everything costs more. The weekly grocery bill, the weekly petrol, the weekly rent\u2014it\u2019s a struggle for so many families. High inflation is prolonging the cost of living. As the MP for Tukituki, I represent a rural electorate. Hawke\u2019s Bay is a food producing region. Hastings is the fruit bowl of New Zealand. Our economy is driven by agriculture and horticulture, but our farmers are dealing with the highest level of on-farm inflation in 40 years. Farming confidence is low. Our growers are facing tough times. We need to restore confidence back into our primary sector. At the moment, it\u2019s costing so much more to grow and export a box of apples\u2014the costs of the trees, the cost of the fertiliser, the cost of the petrol, the labour costs, the shipping costs, the logistics costs; they\u2019ve all gone up because inflation is so high, but growers aren\u2019t getting more for that box of apples in the market. Our Hawke\u2019s Bay growers are losing our competitive advantage as other countries can produce the same box of apples for less because their inflation is less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EOn top of this, our region is having to rebuild after a cyclone. But everything costs more\u2014billions of dollars. High inflation is taking its toll on these costs and our rebuild. The rising cost of building means the roads, the bridges, the houses, they\u2019re all costing more. For some growers and farmers it\u2019s become unsustainable. This has a huge knock-on effect to the wider economy as everyone is tightening their belts and provincial New Zealand is going backwards. We need to get the wheels moving on our economy once again by getting inflation under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThis bill is a solid start to tackling inflation and reducing the cost of living for everyday Kiwis and businesses and strengthening our economy. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9feafe6305d44ddaceec4256d6c0fe0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9feafe6305d44ddaceec4256d6c0fe0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E One would think that when a Government comes into power and declares that it has a 100-day plan to take steps that are urgent and that are needed, that every single step they take would have an immediate impact. One would think that the first piece of legislation that a Government put into the House\u2014the very first piece of legislation\u2014would make a tangible difference right from the start. But this bill will not put a single cent more in people\u2019s pockets by Christmas. It simply won\u2019t happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Finance said that it was a highly symbolic piece of legislation. I put it that if it is a symbolic piece of legislation, it is full of empty symbolism that achieves nothing. And let me tell you\u2014let me tell the speakers on the other side of the House exactly why this is a largely empty bill and why it\u2019s pointless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EFirst of all, inflation is heading down. The Treasury\u2019s forecast predicts that it will be back within the 1 to 3 percent range\u2014which has been our range for a long time now\u2014in a few months, within a few months in 2024. The need for lower inflation has already been met. That particular target is being met and it will be achieved. So this bill is not needed for that purpose, and that is because inflation worldwide is trending down. Inflation was never ever a problem only in New Zealand; it was a worldwide problem in the wake of the global pandemic and like everywhere else it is now heading down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo there is no need for this particular measure. But then if we look at the substance of the bill, if we look at the action\u2014this is our first look in this House at what is actually in the bill. Now, the clauses in the bill that do the work are clause 4, which amends section 9 of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act, and it takes out the objective of achieving maximum sustainable employment. That\u2019s the first clause that does some work. But there is a second clause that does some work in this bill, and that\u2019s clause 11 of this bill. I\u2019m going to ask the members on the opposite side of the House to actually read that clause and, more importantly, to read the section of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act which it amends, because it amends section 125 of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. And the interesting thing about section 125 of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act is it enables the Governor-General, by Order in Council, to direct the monetary policy committee to formulate and implement monetary policy for one or more economic objectives for a period not exceeding 12 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn other words, on the advice of the Minister of Finance, the monetary policy committee could set aside one or more of its economic goals for a short period of time in order to achieve a short-term objective. This objective of saying that maximum sustainable employment should rank differently from price stability could have been achieved through section 125 of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. That is the second reason why this bill is mere empty symbolism\u2014there was no need to repeal this objective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe third reason as to why this bill is mere empty symbolism is something that my colleague Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick has already referred to. If we look at the regulatory impact statement, because at least this bill has one, it says that Treasury itself, while it could support this approach, would prefer to do it through the monetary policy remit, through the Reserve Bank remit. There was another mechanism available to do this, but that Government, banking on symbolism and on empty symbolism at that, has chosen to put this ridiculous bill into the House. It\u2019s its first piece of legislation and it achieves absolutely nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u00220864de92999841f5a0354fc584423b16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220864de92999841f5a0354fc584423b16\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and can I also congratulate you on your appointment to Deputy Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure for me to stand for the first time in this House to talk to a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EWhat does inflation mean to you? I ask that question because it touches every single one of us, whether it\u2019s through the daily cost of buying groceries or when you fill your car up, pay the power bill, pay for insurance\u2014increases, by the way, in recent times\u2014or what really is hurtful for many is actually paying our mortgages each and every week or fortnightly. Everybody is suffering. Everybody. Not just M\u0101ori; everybody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EThere are thousands of hard-working individuals across our country who simply have to find hundreds of dollars extra every week just to pay their mortgages. High inflation is the tyranny of any country. Milton Friedman said inflation is one of the forms of taxation that can be imposed without legislation. So it should not come as a surprise that a reasonable Government such as this National-led coalition Government has this bill as the first piece of legislation being introduced to the House in this term. It is a high priority to get the Reserve Bank\u2019s focus back solely on getting inflation under control, but also maintaining it under control once you\u2019re in the desired bandwidth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EInflation has been out of control for far too long. The second requirement of the Reserve Bank was introduced back in 2019, right before the country was about to hit its highest level of inflation in decades. The Reserve Bank has been struggling ever since to get it under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003ELabour\u2019s experiment of including an additional focus for the Reserve Bank has failed and we\u2019re all paying for it\u2014literally. Cost of living is out of control, everybody knows that. And to help, this bill will amend the very important economic objectives of the Reserve Bank. They will no longer have to answer to two key performance indicators, two masters, two objectives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EThe bill removes the Labour Party\u2019s introduced target of maximum sustainable employment. It\u2019s an applaudable target, but clearly trying to deliver it via the Reserve Bank is the wrong place and it needs to be corrected. \u201CInflation is as violent as a mugger, as frightening as an armed robber, and as deadly as a hit man\u201D\u2014that was quoted by Ronald Reagan, a very wise man, back in the day. So I am very happy to commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b58c4cf6c4a444638d8e795339f75e92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b58c4cf6c4a444638d8e795339f75e92\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. When a new administration comes down to the House with its first flush of a legislative package, it tells you something about them. The first three pieces of legislation we\u2019re seeing in this period of urgency are about removing a focus on jobs and wages for ordinary New Zealanders and rolling back action on climate change. This speaks to the priorities of this Government and what it sees as its focus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI can only but feel for members on the Government benches\u2014that they\u2019re coming down with the excitement of being in Government to pass legislation, and all it is to do is to repeal; to undo. Not to put forward a vision, not to put forward a positive change that they want to see for New Zealand, but to say what they\u2019re going to undo and not what they\u2019re going to do. I will put that against our first package of legislation where we brought in a healthy homes guarantee, a winter energy payment, a Best Start payment, and paid parental leave\u2014all before Christmas in 2017. That is what a Government of action and what a Government with a vision looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI would, before I get on to the substance of the bill, like to take a moment to acknowledge the work of my friend and colleague, the Hon Grant Robertson, as his time as finance Minister of New Zealand. Not only did he want to modernise our monetary policy and not drag it back to 1989 like our current Government wants to do but he was a finance Minister that saw New Zealand through its darkest days of a global pandemic in better shape than most countries. Not only did our economy do well but also did our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut one of the things that we know is that this is symbolic. So this is a Government that has chosen its first act of symbolism to be something it\u2019s not going to do rather than what it is going to do, and telling us what we are going to see from a Government that is intent on dragging New Zealand backwards\u2014as my colleague said, \u201CBack to the Future\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIt is a Government that says it\u2019s going to be evidence based. Well, all of the evidence, the one regulatory impact statement that slipped through to the keeper under this Government and probably caused the end of them for the package of legislation that we\u2019re about to see, states incredibly clearly that this is not the optimum way to do it. In fact, we have never seen price stability as something that we didn\u2019t want to achieve through the monetary policy of the Reserve Bank. But for us, in our core Labour DNA, ensuring that we are also making sure that is in lock step with people having jobs and a decent wage is something that we are incredibly proud of. There is no evidence that these two things do not work in alignment. There is simply no evidence, and the regulatory impact statement that the Minister saw made that incredibly clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ef050becd4341128f089a9db1b29051\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: The election!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022579388a66cf74032ada148b5db6c629a\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: I will take a moment as we\u2019re hearing a chorus from the backbench of the Government benches that we don\u2019t need regulatory impact statements because we had an election. Well, newsflash: elections don\u2019t give you ultimate power. There still are requirements for you to do policy work, and our Government did all the way through. This is a Government that has said it will not do the analysis; it will not put itself through the scrutiny required by a regulatory impact statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThis is a non-problem; this is a symbolic act. But what it does is it shows that this Government is removing that focus on jobs and wages for New Zealanders. I will finish with a quote from an opinion piece from a former Reserve Bank board member who says: \u201CJust what the benefits of acting on a \u2018non-problem\u2019 \u201D\u2014the non-problem being what we\u2019re doing here tonight\u2014\u201Care [is] a matter for speculation. Perhaps if you crave a muscular reputation in the face of weakness elsewhere in your programme, then making much of a \u2018non-problem\u2019 may be beneficial.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0ec29027b41495385eba0732163d5b1\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c21a20abb2a84d09b85cdb8d824d79e9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022d37e4302dd694f3e81e9a6735291a97f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d37e4302dd694f3e81e9a6735291a97f\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek leave to correct an answer I gave in response to oral question No. 11 today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291b3e5c5501e461bab140bad83202971\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6053d64e4bd424a9f52d1a1b847da09\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: In response to the Hon Willow-Jean Prime\u2019s supplementary to oral question 11 in regard to repealing section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act, I stated I wouldn\u2019t expect to receive advice on this. I meant to say I would expect to receive advice on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002200b701c17f14408287faf69ab149848a\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022338fa1a13789412e9f49fe225920fd8e\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000755\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u002201079ad8e3814d9a8f01684a82f06460\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201079ad8e3814d9a8f01684a82f06460\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I speak in support of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EWhile the members opposite might be out of touch with what people around New Zealand are dealing with, this Government will be laser-focused on getting the cost of living under control and inflation under control, and we cannot do that by having a dual mandate. We cannot let another day go by where we do not focus everything we\u2019ve got on getting inflation under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EI met a family months ago that said that despite everything they are doing\u2014working harder than they\u2019ve ever worked\u2014despite the odd wage increase, they are going backwards. That is because inflation is out of control. No matter what we do to focus on jobs, if people earn more but inflation is getting higher, that wage increase means nothing. We need to help these people, and we cannot keep going like we are, where people cannot afford to meet their mortgage payments. We have to do this first because Christmas is coming and people cannot afford to pay their bills. We need to do whatever we can, and if the members opposite think that this is a waste of time, what is a bigger waste of time is the fact that we have to change this back to a single mandate when, according to members opposite, a dual mandate didn\u2019t make a difference. The thing that I will say in finishing is that I commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ea4b22bcc0374f53bebf9658267bb57c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000759\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1c7fe3e17434f15ac207107f2b6e2e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1c7fe3e17434f15ac207107f2b6e2e4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for second reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022325ce6db57de4032afe19957fffbd41f\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002203ec84bd9d3a49799c15a4d5ace96674\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203ec84bd9d3a49799c15a4d5ace96674\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWell, members opposite need to make up their minds; is the bill bad or does it do nothing? Because it can\u2019t be both and the confusion apparent on the opposite benches is, I think, indicative of the kind of Government we had over the past six years\u2014it couldn\u2019t really decide if it was coming or going or what it was doing from one day to the next. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo some questions have been asked and I am prepared to educate the members opposite. So the first is this: are we a Government that cares deeply about jobs and well-paying jobs? Yes, we are. But are we also a Government that understands that the foundation for good jobs is a strong economy? Yes, we are. And are we also a Government that is economically literate enough to know that price stability is the essential foundation on which maximum and sustainable employment can be built? Yes, we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAnd so members opposite have asked, \u201CWhy do this Act? Why make these changes to the Act?\u201D Well, let me spell it out clearly: without amending the Act, the monetary policy committee would still be required to have regard to two separate objectives. As well as price stability they would also be having to weigh maximum sustainable employment. And as the regulatory impact statement notes, there is value in amending the Act to signal a greater focus on price stability than that which could be achieved through mere tweaks to the remit alone. We are a Government that is making our intentions crystal clear. We know that without low inflation, without price stability, we will not achieve the economic objectives that New Zealanders share with us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo then we\u2019ve had this second set of questions about whether or not there is any benefit in doing it this way. Well, actually, it provides benefits in clarifying how the monetary policy committee is expected to operate, because there are potentially rare circumstances in which the two objectives could be misaligned, and we wish it to be clear that price stability is the objective. We had a comment from the member Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick that the remit would still have reference to having regard to employment, and I want to clarify for that member that that is incorrect. We will have one operational objective in the remit, and, as has been the case in previous remits, it will be in pursuing that objective that will have regard to financial stability and other matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThere have been questions about the timing. Well, actually, I thought this was most amusingly digressed on by the member Grant Robertson\u2014the Hon Grant Robertson\u2014because actually we want to make this simple, clear change as soon as possible so as not to create more confusion in the market about what we are doing or what our intentions are. And as my colleagues have so eloquently expressed, we have been making it clear for several months our intentions in relation to the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. And actually quite a few New Zealanders voted not only just in the knowledge but in the expectation that we would be making this change, and we are going to be a Government that delivers on those commitments and meets the expectations of our voters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EFinally, I do want to make the point with reference to the regulatory impact statement that members opposite are wrong to dismiss perception when it comes to the way we manage inflation. Perception does matter. And as the regulatory impact statement acknowledges, the dual mandate has impacted the perceptions of the effectiveness of monetary policy. And I read for the members point No. 7 in the regulatory impact statement: \u201CExpectations can have a significant impact on inflation outcomes. When the dual mandate was introduced\u201D\u2014the failed dual mandate was introduced\u2014\u201Cthe 2018 Regulatory Impact Statement noted that \u2018the risk that market participants \u2026 interpret the Reserve Bank\u2019s new employment objective as weakening its focus on inflation.\u2019 \u201D And I point to the data and the data shows that it was on the watch of the members opposite with their new experiment that we have had 2\u00BD years of inflation outside the band. And I would put to you that the market has priced in its expectation that inflation would remain out of control. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo, onward, we have further advice here that clearly explaining and justifying monetary policy decisions is imperative in retaining credibility. We also note that there has always been this issue that there is a real question about how you measure full employment, and policy errors from measurement issues associated with targeting less well measured objectives can be problematic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhich is all to say, we had a lot of hot air over here about their sudden new-found concern with regulatory impacts statements and their concern with process and urgency and a whole bunch of arguments, but actually the official advice here that we have shared with the House is clear: there are benefits to being crystal clear in your objectives when it comes to monetary policy. The regime of the former Government has failed and I know it hurts for them but this is the change New Zealanders voted for. And inflation, we\u2019re coming after you and the Reserve Bank\u2019s on our side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00229ccb405f39f244ec8018ddff254110b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ccb405f39f244ec8018ddff254110b6\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It might be helpful for the House to go back to where the provision that\u2019s being repealed tonight came from. It really began for me in 2014 when the then Governor of the Reserve Bank, Graeme Wheeler, began hiking the official cash rate (OCR) even though at that point in time inflation was actually only running at 1.5 percent and unemployment was 5.6 percent. And I remember sitting on the Finance and Expenditure Committee and trying to understand why Graeme Wheeler would actually do that. He ended up increasing over that period of time the OCR from 2.5 to 3.5 percent and in doing so, given how low inflation was, all he actually achieved was unemployment going up. And, actually, we almost got to deflation towards the end of 2015. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo if members opposite want to know where this conversation came from, it\u2019s that actually, yes, of course, we must keep inflation under control and of course that is an important role for the Reserve Bank, but if we leave that completely unfettered, we then run the risk that we end up going in completely the opposite direction. And so the process began from then to say, \u201CWell, is there another way to do this?\u201D It\u2019s not as if New Zealand was some kind of outlier in picking this up. The United States Federal Reserve has had a dual mandate for many, many years. The Reserve Bank of Australia has had a mandate that includes employment, and, in fact, the Australian Government just last week updated that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022686fc21bbbe9408faf8bfd000f187b22\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Tell the full story, now. They had to water it down, you know that. They had to water it down\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218c89df636054f58a014e67998686a51\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to reaffirm employment as part of their mandate. Now, the member opposite says, \u201CThey had to water it down.\u201D The member opposite needs to remember: she\u2019s getting rid of it. She\u2019s getting rid of it completely. The Reserve Bank of Australia, the Federal Reserve are both completely able to manage these two things together. So that is the reason why we began this process. Of course, we want inflation to be kept under control, but we also think that the Reserve Bank has a role in the real economy of making sure that we do keep New Zealanders in work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve heard from members opposite that this is a particularly dangerous thing to have these two objectives, that somehow or other, the perfectly capable people that we employ at Reserve Bank and on the monetary policy committee couldn\u2019t possibly handle two thoughts in their head at one time. Consistently, over the period of time since this dual mandate has been in place, the Governor of the Reserve Bank and those involved in the Reserve Bank making these decisions have said that it did not alter one iota their focus on inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve given the House an example of a time where I think the dual mandate would have come in handy to make some different decisions. But in the period of time we\u2019re talking about, the Reserve Bank have been absolutely clear: they knew that their focus needed to be on inflation as it spiralled out of control around the world. When we look at the countries that have a single mandate, they all saw inflation go up. So the member opposite cannot have it both ways. Inflation was rising in those single-mandate countries well beyond the bands and the target bands that they have, because that was a global trend. Rightly, the Reserve Bank said our job has got to be to make sure we bring inflation down. You know what? It is not inconsistent with also making sure that we look after Kiwis and keep them in jobs. So this bill that the Government has bought to the House is a solution in search of a problem. It is not evidence based. There is no relationship between the speed at which central banks have responded to rising inflation and their monetary policy mandate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAlso, long-term inflation expectations, which the member opposite, Nicola Willis, mentioned just before she sat down, haven\u2019t actually changed significantly since the dual mandate came in. Five- and 10-year inflation expectations are in fact almost exactly where they were before we went into the dual mandate process. That\u2019s because people understand that it is possible to keep these two thoughts in our head at the same time. What might trigger concern, if I quote the regulatory impact statement, is that changes to the statutory framework \u201Cmay trigger market concern\u201D. Stability is important in the way that we go about monetary policy. That\u2019s why at this point in a normal process of a bill, we would be talking about what had happened at the Finance and Expenditure Committee. We would be talking about the submissions that had come forward. I think when we come to later stages of the debate, we will be bearing in mind the fact that we haven\u2019t had the chance for New Zealanders to come forward and say why this mattered. When we made the change, we heard from representatives from working people in particular, just how important it was that there was now a conversation about employment and keeping people in jobs, alongside the important conversation we have about making sure that we keep inflation under control and we keep price stability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAs we went through COVID, one of the things that I am the most proud of is that we kept New Zealanders in work; that when we were faced with forecasts of unemployment up into the double digits, we worked hard across Government, across all the parts of Government, in making sure we did the things we needed to to keep them in work\u2014the fiscal measures like the wage subsidy scheme and so on\u2014but also what was done in terms of the monetary policy response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThat, actually, has now served us well as we\u2019ve entered into a time of higher inflation and pressures on the cost of living. Because, and I think Liam Dann wrote about this in the New Zealand Herald recently, if you really wanted to see what would go wrong in a period of high inflation and high interest rates, it would be if people didn\u2019t have jobs. Because if they didn\u2019t have jobs, you\u2019d be seeing those mortgagee sales more and more and more. And so when we\u2019re talking about what we want from the economy, we want all the parts of the economic apparatus working towards the overall wellbeing of New Zealanders. That\u2019s why, when we made this change, we also changed the purposes of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Monetary Policy) Amendment Act 2018 to make sure it was actually about the overall economic wellbeing of New Zealanders. I notice that\u2019s not being changed, and I don\u2019t actually think the objectives of the Act now fit the purposes that we\u2019ve changed them to, but we recognise that there was an important role for monetary policy in making sure that we did look after New Zealanders and their overall wellbeing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe need to remember: jobs and stable prices are two of the essential elements of making sure that people can live their lives well. As I said before, this Act passed in 1989\u2014the original Reserve Bank Act. In communities across New Zealand in the 1980s it was the twin evils of high inflation and high unemployment that really drove New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205e09db8b6994cb4a98a6a55bb868c34\u0022\u003ENicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s living in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225469d6d8016942cca95f18f0d8e968e0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and in the 1990s\u2014I\u2019m living in the past? She\u2019s the one taking us back to 1989. We modernised this legislation to put it right up there with what was going on around the rest of the world in modern monetary policy, and this is the Government that wants to take it backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThere is another possibility that occurs here, and that is actually now returning to the single mandate\u2014and Lord forbid if the National Party actually take up the ACT Party\u2019s idea of getting rid of the concept of the medium term, because I can tell you what will happen then: you will see interest rates rise rapidly and often. That actually will be the consequence of this legislation. It\u2019ll all be about making sure that we respond instantly to a change in prices, and then you\u2019ll see interest rates rise, and they\u2019ll rise often and they\u2019ll rise regularly. So members opposite might want to think very, very carefully about what they\u2019re actually doing today. Because what they\u2019re actually doing today is taking away the focus on jobs\u2014on one of the critical things that we often hear from the Government about what they think is important\u2014and putting us back in the position as we were back in 2013 and 2014, when Graeme Wheeler decided that it was a good idea to ratchet up the official cash rate even though inflation was down around that 1.5 percent. This is about getting a balance right. It\u2019s about making sure we give a focus to all parts of the economic apparatus on looking after people, looking after their jobs, and keeping them in work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Finance said that we needed to make up our mind about what the bill was. I can tell her this: it\u2019s wrong, and it also won\u2019t do what they say it will do. The last speaker in the first reading from the Government, Katie Nimon, said this needs to be passed before Christmas so it can make a difference to the cost of living for people. It won\u2019t do a thing before Christmas, and actually, the main thing it is likely to do is cause damage over the long run in terms of how monetary policy operates. This bill is wrong, and we will be opposing it at all stages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022c447bde2f02c4220b6df54bba28f6505\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c447bde2f02c4220b6df54bba28f6505\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. Madam Speaker, just wanted to say I\u2019m grateful to the Minister for tabling that letter from the Reserve Bank and the Reserve Bank Governor. It has largely just referred us back to the monetary policy remit review from June 2023, which spoke to the kind of thoughts from the Reserve Bank after a number of public submissions in a process which then ended up in a memorandum to the former Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI just want to quote here from paragraph 22, because I think it\u2019s a really important and salient point. Ultimately, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ) recommended to the Minister that there was some form of hierarchical nature in which the Minister through the remit could say that the monetary policy committee (MPC) was to take account of maximum sustainable employment, but to do that subsequent to a focus on price stability. And here they say at paragraph 22, \u201CThe Reserve Bank views that introducing a hierarchical ordering of objectives is unlikely to materially affect monetary policy strategy \u2013 it clarifies the strategy that the MPC would most likely undertake when the dual mandate objectives come into conflict, particularly for when inflation expectations are at risk of becoming unanchored. Furthermore, the Reserve Bank has undertaken considerable work in better understanding labour market dynamics, and [the] MSE\u201D\u2014that being the maximum sustainable employment\u2014\u201Cwill remain an important concept in the future whether the Remit has a hierarchical ordering or not.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EOnce again, we have there in black and white\u2014as myself and the Minister, when she was previously a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, heard elucidated time and time again from the Reserve Bank Governor\u2014that, ultimately, there was not all too much difference that was coming out of the monetary policy committee as a result of the dual mandate. It largely was a means by which they interrogated and reflected on the decisions that they were making, but it did not materially affect them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo look, all of us in here can pontificate about what inflation is and what inflation does, but, frankly, this bill does not do anything to tame that issue of inflation. But I do think it\u2019s worthwhile spending some time reflecting on the point from the Minister about why perceptions do matter, because I think that\u2019s a really important and salient point, and, actually, it goes some way to some broader reflections that some members may like to make on the fact that so much of this stuff that we do inside of the economy is largely driven by perception and, therefore, is kind of made up, and that maybe talking down our economy or certain industries has real-world impacts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ETo that effect, we also heard from the Minister the question to members of the Opposition about whether this is bad or whether it is unnecessary. So to answer that question\u2014is it bad?\u2014what I\u2019d say to the Minister in response is: is a focus on employment, a focus on maximum sustainable employment, bad? I don\u2019t think that it is, and what I heard from the Minister whilst saying that it\u2019s not going to be within the remit was that it may be one of the considerations in the formulation of monetary policy. So, again, I don\u2019t think that anybody here is saying that a focus on maximum sustainable employment is a bad thing, but what we are hearing is that it largely, to this point, has not impacted the way that the monetary policy committee has come up with monetary policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThen there was the question of whether it is necessary. Well, again, as we\u2019ve heard and as is laid out in the regulatory impact statement, this bill is not necessary. These means are not necessary to achieve the ends as stated\u2014that is, for the hierarchical consideration of financial stability and of maximum sustainable employment\u2014whether that is achieved by virtue of the remit change or consideration or otherwise. The other point of whether it is necessary or not is about the fact that this simply has not changed the Reserve Bank\u2019s approach. Again, we have this in hearing after hearing but also in black and white from the remit review from the RBNZ, which, again, is tabled and out there in the public arena. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EJust given that we\u2019ve got a little bit more time here in this second reading and before we get to the committee of the whole House stage, where I\u2019m looking forward to putting some questions to the Minister, it might be worthwhile to reflect on what it is that the Reserve Bank actually does, because we have been through an unprecedented period of time, and I wanted to acknowledge members from the Finance and Expenditure Committee in the last term, who really did our best to hold the RBNZ and Treasury and the Minister to account on that. So monetary policy is the stuff that the Reserve Bank does, and, as we\u2019ve all been talking about, at present that is largely mandated through the dual mandate of a focus on price stability but also on maximum sustainable employment. The main ways that they have to achieve those outcomes are through, largely, the official cash rate, which then has flow-on effects to mortgages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EOutside of that, it can engage in what is typically known as unconventional monetary policy, and throughout the period of COVID-19 we saw that in full effect, with large-scale asset purchases and otherwise. We knew, because we ended up with an Official Information Act request back from the Government with advice both from the RBNZ and Treasury, that if those unconventional monetary policy means were pursued, we would end up with what they called distributional impacts\u2014that is, an increase in or an exacerbation of inequality. And they advised that the way to mitigate against those distributional impacts\u2014i.e., that increase in inequality\u2014was through the utilisation of something called fiscal policy. That\u2019s the stuff that the Government does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe stuff that the Government does is tax and spend. Spending\u2014as we all should, hopefully, know in this place\u2014does have inflationary impacts, but when it comes to taxation, this is a point that I think that we largely diverge on, because we\u2019ve heard a lot in this House today and over the last week or so about the notion of productivity, and we\u2019ve also heard about how inflation is the thief, and all of those different things. But we also know that taxation is a deflationary measure that Governments can undertake. We also know that right now, we are the only country in the OECD that does not have a capital gains tax, a stamp duty, an inheritance tax, a ghost house tax, or any other form of taxation which is explicitly focused on addressing those inequities. But also, as a result, we end up by virtue of multiple reports from the likes of the Productivity Commission and from the likes of Treasury and the RBNZ with ramifications which rob us of our productivity, which rob us of that capital and that investment in the productive market, and end up with a disproportionate influence on capital and inflation, particularly house price inflation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo if the Government actually wants to do something meaningful on inflation, particularly house price inflation and those drivers of Consumers Price Index inflation, then it could fix the tax system\u2014I don\u2019t know. That\u2019s an idea you can take for free from the Greens as we all sit in here to midnight tomorrow and till 10 p.m. tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut, again, the point remains\u2014three key points here from the Greens\u2014that this makes no difference and we\u2019re wasting all of our time in debating it; secondarily, it is unnecessary to do this in law; and, thirdly, the Government is still saying that they want the RBNZ to have some kind of mind paid to the impacts on employment. So they still believe that this is somehow important. With all of that information, I just think we\u2019ve got better things to do, and if the Government wants to introduce a bill focusing on taxation and betters ways to equitably achieve outcomes and get a more productive economy, we\u2019re on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289cc2f5783c04d23a628394a45b1dc4c\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002258ee216479e44df68bcefd3f983a7261\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258ee216479e44df68bcefd3f983a7261\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Todd Stephenson\u2014if you seek the call, then I\u2019ll call you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291fa3f87e03b4a26876094798fe15c94\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac397e48cd4346ca8252500fdd23a4da\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: So that\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f31c6c09fc7745759c7865bf412b74c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f31c6c09fc7745759c7865bf412b74c0\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak in favour of this bill, which ACT will be supporting. We do need to return the single economic objective to the Reserve Bank\u2019s mandate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EWhile it\u2019s existed since 1934, it was the passing of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act in 1989 which actually made this primary objective of price stability, and it was great to hear Mr Robertson actually talking about a bit of history, because there\u2019s actually nothing wrong with going back to 1989, when this was put in place and it worked. This same Act also established the operational independence of the Reserve Bank. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EYou\u2019re right: it was in the 1988 Budget that the then Minister of Finance and ACT co-founder, Sir Roger Douglas, announced his intentions to reform the Reserve Bank in a way that would actually set this single mandate. When that Act came into force in 1989\u2014in fact, in February of 1990\u2014New Zealand was the first country to have this formally adopted inflation target as we know it, and it worked. Providing the Reserve Bank with a single objective rather than a laundry list, which was actually discussed at the time in the 1980s, actually meant that the bank could achieve its mandate by contributing and focusing on one thing and getting that objective right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EAt the time, it was clear that the primary function of the Reserve Bank was to formulate and implement monetary policy directed to the economic objective of maintaining price stability, and that\u2019s what we want to see returned. It was acknowledged that general price stability was the greatest contribution that monetary policy could make to New Zealand\u2019s economic wellbeing, and that is what this Government is focused on. It recognises the limitation of monetary policy over the medium term and, by having a clear objective on price stability, we want to make sure that the Reserve Bank continues to focus on that single objective. It\u2019s part of this Government\u2019s economic plan. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI would note, actually, that when the first policy targets agreement was signed by the Government in 1990, inflation was running at 7 percent. That\u2019s not too dissimilar to the circumstances we find ourselves in today, and that target did actually deliver the reduction in inflation that we\u2019re looking for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EThe previous Government has muddied the waters by providing the Reserve Bank with a dual mandate, and we want to stop that. Now, if that wasn\u2019t bad enough, by muddying the waters, the previous Government also went on to grow the size of Government, spending over 70 percent more, and this large increase in Government spending has had consequences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s have another famous Milton Friedman quote tonight\u2014you can never get enough of Milton Friedman on this side of the House. Milton Friedman said, \u201CInflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon, in the sense that it is and can be produced only by a more rapid increase in the quantity of money than in output.\u201D The last Government\u2019s output certainly didn\u2019t match the amount it was spending. We had hundreds of millions of dollars wasted on unproductive projects. What we\u2019ve seen is a huge increase in inflation and\u2014as the honourable member on this side talked about\u2014that\u2019s affecting households with increases in mortgages and petrol prices and grocery prices. So ordinary Kiwis like the people of Southland are worse off in real terms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EThis new Government, which ACT is a part of, is determined to get inflation under control as quickly as possible, and what we are doing here tonight, in moving this amendment, is to do that. We\u2019re also going to tackle Government spending and ensure that the Reserve Bank once again has a sole focus. By returning to the sole focus, we can make sure that the Reserve Bank continues to be a world-leading institution and to play its part appropriately in turning around this economy. That\u2019s why ACT will be supporting this, and we commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00226ac5e82a49134eafb2e63c9a71495f19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ac5e82a49134eafb2e63c9a71495f19\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and may I commend you on retaining your seat in the Chair; very good stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI think we\u2019ve heard some fine contributions on the theory of inflation and Milton Friedman and the like. But essentially what we\u2019re dealing with here is a real-world issue that, as Mr Stephenson just pointed out, families are hurting, cost of living is hurting, our business community and our farmers are hurting with record-high interest rates that\u2019s driven as a result of the record-high inflation. So we do need to get our arms around this. We as a Government have decided to cut out the fluff and the nonsense to get down to tin tacks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe have been convinced by a very persuasive argument from the Minister of Finance to support this bill. So we commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u00229786cdb4e7384cae8944515c7d054cb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229786cdb4e7384cae8944515c7d054cb7\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. What we know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f273bf77872e4852bda3c52f7891fc3f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, this is a split call shared with the Greens. Rawiri Waititi\u2014five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022849dcc2fb54b4aabb53616f03a0e1f93\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: What we know is that this Government is rushing through legislation before Christmas that will see people lose their jobs. It will cut people\u2019s wages and working conditions. This is all being done to further enrich their already rich mates. It\u2019s heartless, it\u2019s disgraceful, and a Merry Christmas to you all! Shame on you\u2014shame on you\u2014and closing monetary policy should be making holistic decisions that consider everything that is relevant and not so easily sacrifice human lives at the altar of economic orthodoxy. Creating stable monetary policy conditions that balance inflationary pressures with employment is in the best interests of current and future generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EMonetary policy, I heard from the finance Minister, needs mates. It needs compassion. It needs heart. By removing the dual mandate, will this Government push the official cash rate to an unachievable rate that the Governor can\u2019t achieve, creating a forced recession? That\u2019s a question that should be asked. Is this setting the Governor up to fail? Is this the Government\u2019s way of getting rid of him? Will the removal of the dual mandates harm tangata whenua, and I ask that of the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, and what will he do to protect his people? Will it harm Pasifika finance? Because they are the people\u2014we are the people who work in precarious, temporary, and seasonal work. This government is prioritising capitalism over workers. And like the great quotes of Morgan Freeman, \u201CThese walls are funny. First you hate them, then you get used to them. Enough time passes; you get so dependent on them. That\u2019s institutionalisation.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori oppose this bill and we call on the Government to rethink their priorities. Now is the time for compassionate economic policies that support our people through tough times. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00223b88ad6a805143768cd449144a4b59c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b88ad6a805143768cd449144a4b59c8\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. As my colleague Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick laid out, the Green Party will not be supporting this bill and we have serious questions about the relevance of the bill to the situation we find ourselves in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, I know it is a common habit of the National Party and your colleagues in the ACT Party\u2014I haven\u2019t really heard from New Zealand First on this\u2014to blame decisions that were made in the last two terms on the global economic circumstances that affected New Zealand following the global pandemic. So I do think it\u2019s important to inject some facts. I like a little visual aid. I\u2019m going to hold it up so members can see. [Holds up graph] So Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation comparisons right across the world\u2014you can\u2019t really make out the New Zealand line, because it follows the shape of the United States, Denmark, Ireland, Australia. Now, if it were the case that the economic circumstances and CPI inflation that we experienced here in Aotearoa was entirely down to the fact that there was a dual mandate, how does that explain all of these other countries experiencing the same CPI inflation? If the inflation we experienced here in Aotearoa was a result only of Government spending as a result of the last Labour Government, why is it that the United States, Denmark, Australia, and virtually every other economy in the world experienced the same shape of inflation? Why is that? Do members opposite have any curiosity about what it is that is causing the situation? Or do you blindly repeat the talking points handed down to you from the party elite? Ask yourselves that question, because we\u2019ve got the data right here that shows us New Zealand\u2019s inflation did not go as high as many other countries in the world. Here it is under many other countries, and it didn\u2019t fall as fast as in some places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAnother consideration is whether or not the Reserve Bank\u2019s decision to engage in funding for lending in December 2020 was a good idea, and I would say it was a terrible idea. It was a mistake. Was it the result of the dual mandate? We have zero evidence that it was, but most central banks in most countries made similar mistakes because they overestimated the impacts of the COVID pandemic, particularly here in New Zealand, where we had a lockdown which meant that we lived without COVID for 18 months longer than most parts of the world, and our economy immediately bounced back. Why is that? Because the economy is not a machine. The economy is not something that is separate to us. What we call the economy just describes some of human activities, just some of them, just the ones where we trade goods and services for money. There\u2019s a whole lot of other things we do in the world that are the foundation for our wellbeing and how it is that we\u2019re able to succeed, how it is that we\u2019re able to thrive. And all of that depends upon a healthy environment. Without water, without healthy air, without sunshine, without soil, we\u2019ve got nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party will continue to stand here and offer a constructive critique of the Government\u2019s approach to economic and fiscal policy. And I would say that we have a much better understanding of the economic context and the factors that are driving inflation here in Aotearoa. Now, it is the case that many prices are starting to drop. A lot of the inflation we experienced here in New Zealand was a result of global inflation and global oil prices. Oil prices are starting to drop back down. But if we truly want to support people to achieve their aspirations, which for most people is to have enough healthy kai; to have a warm, healthy home; to have some secure activity, whether that is a job in paid work or an unpaid job that is equally important, like raising children or looking after sick relatives or volunteering in the community\u2014if we want to achieve all of that for our people, we cannot go back to the 1980s, as the ACT Party would love us to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI think we all know that the economic reforms of the 1980s did not lead to a giant increase in productivity. They did enrich a tiny number of people, many of whom donate now to the ACT Party and to the National Party. But if we want a truly equitable society that gives people equality of opportunity, then we need a much more holistic approach to the economy, one that respects our people\u2014that looks after the dignity of people, and supports people and the essential need that we have for a healthy planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u00224b8d691ac6cc4c5fb4f39ee4df7b053a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b8d691ac6cc4c5fb4f39ee4df7b053a\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I speak in support of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s time to focus on strengthening our economy. It\u2019s time we focus on hard-working New Zealanders and reducing the cost of living. This will be achieved through getting on top of inflation. Kiwis are struggling because the economy is damaged. The price of food, rents, and mortgages are at record highs, while wages have struggled to keep up, creating a cost of living crisis. Homeowners are scrambling to find the extra hundreds of dollars they need to pay their mortgage payment each fortnight. Across New Zealand, families are feeling hardship in a way they have never experienced before. Christmas is just around the corner, and we need to bring some light and cheer for people this Christmas, and that is reducing the cost of living crisis, getting on top of inflation, and giving New Zealanders a brighter future. Interest rates have risen so fast that hard-working Kiwis can\u2019t keep up, businesses can\u2019t keep up. Our economy has been going backwards; we need to drive it forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThe other side of the House might keep blaming COVID and international circumstances, but on this side of the House, we aren\u2019t blaming; we are acting. We are all about action\u2014all about action, getting things back on track. On this side of the House, we aren\u2019t wasting any time in our fight to put the lid on inflation. We need price stability and low inflation. This is what will drive our economy forward. This will help improve the lives of New Zealanders who are currently wondering how they\u2019re going to pay their bills. This will help improve business, farmer, and grower confidence, helping grow our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThe member on the other side of the House spoke about productivity and creating jobs. The way to drive productivity is to support our businesses and our growers and our farmers by lowering inflation. Farm inflation is at all-time highs. Confidence is low. We need to enable businesses to get ahead, enable businesses to create jobs, enable families to get ahead. Inflation is eroding profitability. Businesses are tightening their belts. We need to get the wheels moving in the right direction now. The commitment to beating inflation starts with ensuring the Reserve Bank is returning to a single mandate of keeping down inflation. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00228d98e95b0fb34b3a837545e68ed95bdd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d98e95b0fb34b3a837545e68ed95bdd\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. I thought that we should give a M\u0101ori perspective on this. That\u2019s why it was good hearing Rawiri Waititi having a bit of a k\u014Drero about it, because I think it brings it back to where a lot of people saw things. I think what we did as a Government is we normalised things for people on the street, you see. National doesn\u2019t do that; they make it all complicated. [Interruption] No, no, they make it all complicated, and that\u2019s where we had a visionary finance Minister, Grant Robertson, who just didn\u2019t see things in one sort of box or one perspective. The dual mandate gave us that opportunity for all New Zealanders to understand what the Reserve Bank was about, because they didn\u2019t understand that before because it was all National Party speak. So I want to compliment the former Minister of Finance in terms of what he did in terms of this dual mandate, because he brought k\u014Drero like wellbeing into play. He brought kaupapa like wellbeing into play, and he got M\u0101ori to understand that the Reserve Bank could be more than just this little box that these useless National Party and ACT people want to focus on because their whole world is just tied up in one pathetic area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EAs we all know, you know, the National Party\u2019s economic record is in tatters, trashed by Nicola Willis, as the whole world knows, repealing our beautiful smoke-free legislation. We\u2019re as embarrassed as the world is shocked to fund their dirty, rotten, filthy tax cuts\u2014disgraceful. Nicola Willis is risking people\u2019s lives because Winston made her look silly. Let\u2019s be clear on that. So whether it\u2019s repealing smoke-free rules to fund tax cuts, that tragic backtrack on the flawed tax plan, I mean, it\u2019s just shot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222f3e52b00c648f9910ced637261bd20\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Come back to the bill, Willie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022444d49d79cb0498a92bf1f4e7f7635f6\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what it\u2019s got to do with\u2014it just shows you how mean the finance Minister is. It shows how mean the finance\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220097d753d5e04502ae15c554138c8218\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Jackson, you\u2019ve had four minutes now\u2014the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a29769e70eca47d482d5ca2988235578\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, I have seven minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022789eac3e638f4c96b8fbda4d4e017645\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No, you\u2019ve had four; you haven\u2019t mentioned the bill, so about time you did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224235ddc0ee7e4fbfbcaaf42a486861c2\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am mentioning the bill, Mr Speaker, because this bill\u2014we\u2019re shocked that they would repeal what we did to focus just on the material side of things for people in this country. If they\u2019re really concerned about the cost of living, then they would follow what Grant Robertson has done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ECan I just say I was just giving a M\u0101ori perspective because we had one of our kaum\u0101tua who died this morning, Bill Kaua, and he was a big follower of this, and he never would\u2019ve supported this sort of kaupapa. His only flaw was I think he was a big supporter of the M\u0101ori Party, but that aside, he was certainly a supporter of what we were doing, and what we were doing was creating jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI want to just come back to this bill, the bill that they\u2019re getting rid of. Grant Robertson\u2019s focus meant that we had record-low unemployment in this country in 2018\u20143.9 percent we\u2019re talking about, in terms of unemployment in 2018, 3.9 percent. I\u2019m just looking at my figures here, and we had a record employment rate in November of 2018 of 68.3 percent. That\u2019s what these types of strategies of broadening the mandate in terms of the Reserve Bank did for New Zealanders\u2014broadened the mandate so we saw firsthand the benefits of Labour\u2019s Government strategy. And now we\u2019re seeing firsthand what this bill will do to New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m just so proud of the economic management that Labour was able to roll out and that was confirmed in the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update and Stats New Zealand June quarter figures: the economy had begun to turn the corner then, and so this Government is inheriting so much of our great work\u2014the economy\u2019s growing again, wages were ahead of inflation while people were in work, and inflation was expected to return to the 1 to 3 percent target band in 2024. Why? Because of the wonderful work done by the former Minister of Finance, Grant Robertson\u2014the former Minister who had a plan and a strategy that was about being inclusive and keeping communities in check. As a former employment Minister, I saw firsthand with programmes like Mana in Mahi, Poutama Rangatahi, M\u0101ori Trade training\u2014these were all the type of benefits that our communities got out of this brilliant strategy that our Government was running. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBut I just want to read something\u2014I was looking at the third reading of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Monetary Policy) Amendment Bill, and a very learned man that everyone respects\u2014well, sometimes. You know, I was looking at what he was saying about this very k\u014Drero, and he talked about monetary policy, and he said this: \u201CThe changes that this Labour Government are bringing in are not to be feared. They bring us into an international best-practice area.\u201D This is not a journey into the unknown; this is to link up a progressive, far-sighted Government passing legislation\u2014that was us\u2014that shows a great similarity to other reserve banks and their mandates, and, as we know, around the world it\u2019s very, very common to have a broad mandate. What he was saying was, \u201CSimilarity in data of Reserve Banks and their mandates, which have moved away from this bare, sparse, barren approach reflective of Don Brash\u201D\u2014and I\u2019ll just add Nicola Willis, even though she wasn\u2019t the Minister of Finance at the time\u2014and that is what we have introduced, and we would be most certainly voting for a dual mandate. And that\u2019s to ensure that when decisions are made, the impact on the employment labour market is equally as important as the interests of the money-lenders\u2014fiscal temporals that pass for corporate New Zealand. We campaigned to change it and we\u2019re now at the final hurdles. He\u2019s a man that we should all listen to, really. This was in the third reading speeches, and he says right before some changes come to pass, he said \u201CI\u2019ll make a prediction. The other side of the House, despite all their lamenting\u201D\u2014this is now National\u2014\u201Cwill not change it back because they won\u2019t have the opportunity in the foreseeable future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBut look, I don\u2019t want to get petty about this: this is a great opportunity. It would spoil the occasion as we prepare for one of our members to move into life outside of politics, which is an improvement in terms of qualities of the House that I currently enjoy. So, he said, \u201CI\u2019ll be voting for this\u201D\u2014this was our bill. \u201CWonderful bill\u201D, he says. \u201CThere will be the ability for Treasury to have a non-voting member on the committee despite the fearmongering and pretty tedious speeches from the dirty, rotten National Party\u201D\u2014I might\u2019ve added a little bit there, all right! \u201CBut our party has not a sliver of doubt that that is the way forward.\u201D And that was former Minister Shane Jones. So where\u2019s Mark Patterson\u2014he\u2019s gone, has he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022046db11838be4650a09c9665f24b00b3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. We don\u2019t comment on members not being here, do we, Mr Jackson?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b699cdc3de84c8dac3e2b24d8ee5e38\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: But here\u2019s the question. Shane Jones\u2014and I\u2019ve got something from Winston, but I don\u2019t have three minutes to read it out\u2014but, Winston, also, hugely supportive\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278cd91b1e8b64cb7ad4f0f4c5b7076c0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We also use full names, don\u2019t we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271462b7463404e6694010c8f15eb1e1b\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Winston Raymond Peters. I remembered his middle name! But it just shows you that this is what the Minister of Finance has to deal with\u2014Winston Raymond Peters and Shane \u201CSell-out-the-M\u0101oris\u201D Jones. You reckon Jonesey\u2019s listening? I hope so. And that\u2019s what this lot has to deal with. They loved what we did. And how are they going to get all this past Winston? That\u2019s the big question. I\u2019d like to carry on, but my time\u2019s run out. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f029918520ff488787c7c32d72eb0b84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f029918520ff488787c7c32d72eb0b84\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I sit here trying to listen to wisdom from all through the House here. And when the member across the aisle there, the Hon Willie Jackson, talks about a M\u0101ori\u2019s perspective, boy oh boy I\u2019m pleased he\u2019s on that side of the House and not this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EBecause no wonder it\u2019s such a mess, and I tell you: I hear a number of members on the other side of the House talk about the problems that they believe this bill is going to present with employment, particularly for M\u0101ori in there. Well, it\u2019s exactly the opposite. This is exactly what\u2019s needed to actually get a great employment, great economy going throughout our country. This is exactly what is needed. It\u2019s exactly the opposite of what they\u2019ve been talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EWhen inflation increases significantly, a sensible Government would look at how its own spending would actually have an effect on it. But what we saw in the last term was a Government that had an increase of 83 percent over its two terms in Government\u201483 percent. That went from just north of $76 billion in 2017\u2014ended up being at $139 billion. That had a significant effect on the inflation as well. We saw a Government that didn\u2019t understand what its purpose was in endeavouring to control inflation with what strings it could actually pull.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003ESo inflation is not only unnecessary for economic growth; as long as it exists, it is the enemy of economic growth. So we need to make sure that we get everything, pull all the levers that we can with regards to getting inflation under control. The\u2014sorry\u2014[member refers to notes]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cfd8daa32694ae6b62c22c48dcfaedf\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Speak from the heart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9d802e0842e45db9ed710bc134f5193\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m learning, Willie\u2014sorry, Willie Jackson. I believe that\u2019s Willie Jackson. If I\u2019m speaking from the heart, I would suggest: don\u2019t listen to that side of the House, especially from that seat over there. It\u2019s a muddled mess, as it is when the Reserve Bank is trying to serve two masters with the fact that they had these two objectives to serve. We need to get it back to one. I believe that the Reserve Bank can\u2019t wait for this to actually occur so it can get things under control. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002207ae56349af54dc2a57e983339c1c647\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207ae56349af54dc2a57e983339c1c647\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call\u2014Helen White.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002273fc95c904924e4784e64ad7c965ddbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273fc95c904924e4784e64ad7c965ddbe\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t think it is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220c2dfde63f2e4f87b5b9e89ce593344c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c2dfde63f2e4f87b5b9e89ce593344c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: It is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220879e3d4320404e865c5200409a5c63\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, sir. I want to talk first to New Zealand about what the maximum sustainable employment phrase actually means. What it means is the highest utilisation of labour resource that can be maintained without generating or accelerating inflation. So it\u2019s not something that competes with a policy of prioritising taking down inflation, and it does not compete with a stability goal. It sits alongside it, and it\u2019s been thought out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, why is that important? I was an employment lawyer for a long time and I know the value of work in people\u2019s lives. It\u2019s an incredibly important stability in itself. It\u2019s also really important to the economy, and we saw that in the COVID disaster, because when COVID happened, I had clients ringing. They were employers, and they didn\u2019t know whether they were going to be able to sustain the situations that they were in. They were looking at widespread redundancies and fiscal policy came alongside them and so did monetary policy, and the maximisation of people being employed without tipping inflation up\u2014that\u2019s an important objective. It sits alongside and it works absolutely collaboratively with price stability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo these things are not in competition. What we have here is a logic that is myth. We have a logic that doesn\u2019t stand up in the evidence, and you\u2019ve heard Grant Robertson talk about that today. He\u2019s talked about how you can take systems where there are dual mandates and you can take systems where there are single mandates, and you can see that the inflation\u2019s been going up at the same rate or if not more than the ones with a single mandate\u2014there is no correlation here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWhat we have is a myth that if we prioritise people\u2019s work, if we think that it\u2019s truly valuable, what we are going to do is we\u2019re going to overheat by wage growth because there\u2019ll be pressure, because there\u2019ll be full employment. And that is the worry, isn\u2019t it? Really, that\u2019s the worry at the heart of the National Party dream and myth machine. Because what it is effectively saying is the way to get inflation down is to make sure that we have as much unemployment as we damn well can, and the wages will plummet as people compete for lower paid work. I never want to see that future in this country. And so I am sorry that we\u2019re in Opposition at the moment, because I know that people will be harmed because of that myth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThis policy, this change, is actually frittering. I agree with my friend Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick. This is actually virtue signalling, because this policy won\u2019t make a difference, but the actual value set that it betrays, that\u2019s going to make a difference in this country. What the National Party is still thinking is relevant is trickle-down economics: that if we just max out the amount of people on low-wage work in this place, everything will come right because it will trickle down\u2014and it never did. It never did. We are stuck in the 80s, which is why we\u2019re hearing anecdotes from it, because there is half the House stuck in the 80s and the 70s, and it\u2019s time to move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe need a modern economy. This is the same Government that is\u2014and I keep on banging on about it\u2014about to get rid of the Productivity Commission, people. I mean, how ridiculous. You\u2019re talking about productivity, you\u2019re talking about making this economy work, and you\u2019re getting rid of the very independent tools that would be best to do it. Because they support a high-wage economy, that\u2019s why. Because it\u2019s something that the National Party is underpinning in this legislation, its commitment to low wages for New Zealanders, and that is a tragedy because we can have inflation come down and we can maximise sustainable employment. Those concepts have been thought out; they are actually already in balance in the very heart of the phrase\u2014maximum sustainable employment means employment that does not harm price stability and does not cause inflation. Please, please take that on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u00225efc4498412b43d1a37b28428a4e48ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225efc4498412b43d1a37b28428a4e48ff\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to speak on this second reading of the amendment bill for the Reserve Bank objectives. I just want to talk about what happens when you try and do two things and don\u2019t do either well. The interesting thing I will speak on is public transport. We want to try and reduce inflation. We are not going to do it by also focusing on the jobs. We need to reduce inflation first. Now, when you try to reduce emissions, you don\u2019t do it by running a bus all around town trying to pick up every single person. You need to go somewhere faster so people actually get out of their cars. You\u2019ve got to do one thing well, and this is what we are here to do. We are here to do it quickly, because we cannot go one more day without it, but we need to do one thing well, and that is our focus. We need to give the Reserve Bank one single mandate, not two things that they can\u2019t do well. We need to do one thing well. So we are here to move this right before Christmas so that people can get to the new year with the best control over inflation that we have not seen for the last six years. It is time, and I will say it again, to do one thing well, and that is what we are here to do as a Government first up: we are going to do one thing well\u2014and I will say it again. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc53151d7a034b969e3ca158016277ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc53151d7a034b969e3ca158016277ca\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Hon Deborah Russell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002237f388631b4d4ef7be37fdfe2e7e19b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237f388631b4d4ef7be37fdfe2e7e19b4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Doctor. Ordinarily in the second reading of a bill, we would be coming to this House having gone through a select committee process where we would\u2019ve heard submissions from all sorts of actors in the community, where we would\u2019ve teased out some of the nuance of the bill, where we would\u2019ve understood the implications, and, having been so informed, we would\u2019ve come back to this debating chamber to present a variety of views. And, ordinarily, there would have been some amendments to the bill. That\u2019s a pretty standard practice as a bill comes back from a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHowever, we haven\u2019t had a select committee process on this bill\u2014not even a truncated select committee process, not even maybe a week to hear from people who could\u2019ve been invited in to talk to us about this bill. As has been pointed out by other speakers in this debate, the bill itself is not complicated or long. There are only a few clauses which actually perform something, that actually make something happen. So we could have perhaps managed a truncated process on this and at least gotten some feedback from other players in the economy, and that would\u2019ve introduced some nuance into this debate\u2014and I think it needs nuance. As it turns out, I have contacted a number of people who I know are concerned about this bill, and I will be bringing their views to the committee of the whole House in an effort to at least get some nuance into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut I do want to talk about some of the nuance that is found in the material that has been placed in front of us already. I\u2019m going to start with the letter that the Minister of Finance has already spoken about, the letter that she received from the chair of the Reserve Bank and the Governor of the Reserve Bank, which she has quoted and tabled in the House. Now, I have a copy of it here. It\u2019s a bit hard: my eyes are getting a bit older; I have to expand the text to see it properly, but one of the words that is put in there is the word \u201Cpriority\u201D\u2014not \u201Cexclusive\u201D, not \u201Csole\u201D, not \u201Conly\u201D, but the word \u201Cpriority\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo the chair of the Reserve Bank and the Governor of the Reserve Bank have quite a nuanced view in this letter. They don\u2019t say the intended focus is exactly what we recommend; instead, they say the intended focus of this bill is consistent with the views we expressed. Now, that\u2019s not an out and out endorsement; it\u2019s saying it\u2019s consistent\u2014it can sit alongside; it can work with. So it\u2019s consistent with their recent monetary policy committee remit review, which was published in June 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo, they said\u2014and they did say\u2014that giving the inflation objective priority will assist with the credibility of the inflation target and so on. And they said it will simplify bits of the remit context, etc., etc., and so on. But I do want to draw attention to that word \u201Cpriority\u201D. It means that several things can be done at once, even if you put priority on one of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI want to turn to that other piece of nuanced advice that has been given to us, and this time it comes to us from the Treasury and it\u2019s sitting in the regulatory impact statement. And, again, it talks about ensuring a primary focus on price stability and then offers options as to what the Government could do. So the Government could introduce legislation to amend the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act, to remove the economic objective of supporting maximum sustainable employment, or it could issue a new monetary policy committee remit only, which would require the monetary policy committee to place greater weight on price stability relative to maximum sustainable employment. But that would have left the Act unchanged\u2014so, going to the remit, the letter that sets out what the Reserve Bank monetary policy committee should focus on. So that was the other thing it could do, or it could have used section 125 of the Act to give the Reserve Bank a temporary focus on one priority only, on one objective only.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo, sitting in that regulatory impact statement is a lot of nuance about what the Government could have chosen to do, and all along what is very clear in this nuance is that it is entirely possible to retain an objective of maximum sustainable employment. Perhaps the Government could have said, \u201CActually, let\u2019s keep that. We\u2019ll just prioritise price stability.\u201D, but, no, the Government has got rid of the objective of having maximum sustainable employment altogether, and that is a great shame. I think that is the kind of nuance we could have heard through the select committee process, and, more to the point, it is the kind of nuance that might have resulted in a better bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI want to talk about something here that the Minister of Finance said. She said in her speech at the start of the second reading, in talking about why the National Party have opted to go for a single objective, \u201CPerception does matter.\u201D\u2014perception does matter. Well, how\u2019s this for a perception: that Government is saying that people in employment don\u2019t matter. That Government is saying that jobs don\u2019t matter. That Government is saying that people getting a decent wage in their back pocket doesn\u2019t matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ENow, here on this side of the House, as a proud Labour Party, we know that jobs matter, that for ordinary people the dignity of having a job that earns a decent wage matters, that the dignity of knowing that your labour is valued matters, that the dignity of knowing that employers can\u2019t just toss you out on the street matters. You see, the wonderful thing about full maximum sustainable employment is it means that employers need to compete a bit for labour. They need to offer a decent wage so that the working person gets up in the morning and knows that as she or he goes to work, it is not a matter of desperation but of a decent wage for decent day\u2019s work because there is maximum sustainable employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo when we say that perception does matter, I put it to the committee that the perception that this Government is creating is that employment doesn\u2019t matter. But it especially matters for M\u0101ori, for Pacific people, for rural people, and for young people. Employment makes a huge difference in those communities. So when the Minister of Finance says perception does matter, I suggest that she might like to take those words to heart and think about the perception that is out there that this National Party does not care about employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we know that in the past few years we have managed an economy with very low unemployment, the lowest unemployment in 30 years. We know that when he was the Minister of Finance, Grant Robertson managed to produce this even though we were dealing with a global pandemic. In the hardest time that has hit New Zealand since, I guess, the world wars or before, we nevertheless had the lowest unemployment for 30 years. And at the same time, yes, inflation went up as part of a whole worldwide phenomenon, but it is coming down. Why? Because both those objectives could be managed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAs I said, this is the sort of nuance that would have come through. The National Party has chosen to avoid nuance. The Government doesn\u2019t care about employment. That\u2019s what this bill is telling us. This House should reject this ridiculous bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2b3a42aee044c838701998171eebaf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2b3a42aee044c838701998171eebaf7\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I rise with great pride to speak on the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill. The National Party and the ACT Party campaigned on removing the dual mandate and getting the Reserve Bank focused back on achieving and maintaining stability in the general level of prices over the medium term, and that is exactly what this bill does. We are keeping our commitment with our coalition with the New Zealand First Party to deliver on this, and I\u2019m proud to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ELet me just say I am child of the 1980s in New Zealand and I know what inflation does to people at the bottom end who don\u2019t have a lot of money. I know what inflation does to employment. I know what inflation does to the price of food. It means that people don\u2019t buy it\u2014they don\u2019t have the money to buy it. We need to fix inflation in this country to fix this economy to make sure people can have good jobs, can build good businesses, and put food on the table. That is exactly what this bill is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ESome of the things we have heard from the other side tonight have just blown me away. They\u2019re saying that the National Party or the coalition doesn\u2019t care about employment, doesn\u2019t care about people, etc. It\u2019s complete and utter nonsense. In fact, those members might want to just have a look at some interesting comments made by, let\u2019s say, the International Labour Organization. There\u2019s someone you\u2019d think the left would probably pay attention to, but in the speeches I\u2019ve heard tonight I don\u2019t think so. But let me just, for the interest of the House, read out a few things that they\u2019ve said about price stability. They said, \u201CSevere inflation is reducing the purchasing power of the middle classes and hitting low-income households particularly hard. Income inequality and poverty will rise if the purchasing power of the lowest paid is not maintained. Rising inflation has a greater cost of living impact on low-income workers. This is because they spend most of their disposable income on essential goods and services which generally experience greater price increases than non-essential items. Inflation is also biting into the purchasing power of minimum wages. Accelerating price inflation is quickly eroding the real value of minimum wages in many countries for which data is available.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EYou\u2019d think this is something the left would pay attention to. Inflation affects those who have the least the most, and that\u2019s what this bill is about. It is about addressing the thief in the pocket of all New Zealanders, particularly poor New Zealanders. We are here to solve that. We are here to help the poor; to help the workers. We are here to get this country back on track and create opportunity for them and help them and help their children. That\u2019s what this is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statements, as has been noted by a couple, said that perceptions of the effectiveness of monetary policy matter. So perceptions of the effectiveness of monetary policy matter. They said: \u201CExpectations can have a significant impact on inflation outcomes.\u201D I\u2019ll say it again: \u201CExpectations can have a significant impact on inflation outcomes.\u201D That\u2019s why getting rid of this dual mandate, getting us back to a single mandate, is so important. We are fixing any misperception that there may be out there; any expectations that are not set properly that this is what this Government is out to do. We are here to fix inflation; to fix this economy; to make sure people can build good businesses here, create good opportunities for employment, create good opportunities for people who can develop a mana that they get from jobs, put food on the table for their children. And we will not have a return of the 1980s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ECan I say, a big reason I came to this House back in 2020\u2014I put my hand up to come into this House and to give up my previous life\u2014was because of that experience in the 80s, that experience of being a kid who did not have food on my table. This is why we are doing this tonight. We are here to fix the inflation\u2014that will mean the kids of today and tomorrow do not have to experience that. So this is incredibly important. I\u2019m very proud to be a part of a Government that\u2019s delivering on what we went to the people of New Zealand to say. We are here to fix the economy. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022983391d9aecb4ba4874ae9d6394778a2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000876\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022247ef64306d844e2ad946ea620492b79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022247ef64306d844e2ad946ea620492b79\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for committee stage immediately. I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226538cc075d284c38b2be3a6258ba8320\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002224b7c14c07a4423e97a95dbf223081b4\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendment to Reserve Bank of New Zealand\u2019s objectives\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad925c16bfa647a59624bdda327239e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad925c16bfa647a59624bdda327239e0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill. I would start by reminding members that the wording of the closure motion has changed in this Parliament. The new wording is \u201CThat debate on this question now close.\u201D I refer members to Standing Order 137(1). Members, we come first to Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b914fc5c73674ecc96df27f4a625eb32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b914fc5c73674ecc96df27f4a625eb32\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all provisions to be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022294dbf8be2be40908e49bb88ef7d36ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022294dbf8be2be40908e49bb88ef7d36ad\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection. So this is the debate on Part 1. This is the debate on clause 4, \u201CAmendment to Reserve Bank of New Zealand objectives\u201D. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3bfd78553d4488fb960675a764a538a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3bfd78553d4488fb960675a764a538a\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I was just checking to see if the Minister wanted to take the opportunity to introduce this particular part to the House. I\u2019ve got a number of questions for the Minister around why this particular part has come in front of us. The first of those I want to deal with is the question of whether or not there have been, in the time that the dual mandate has been in place, any times at which the Reserve Bank\u2019s focus on reducing inflation has in any way been impacted by the fact that there is a dual mandate. Because consistently, in the time that I was the Minister of Finance and the time in which the Governor of the Reserve Bank has been in place, he has stated repeatedly that the Reserve Bank has focused squarely on inflation and that they don\u2019t feel that at any point they have been compromised in that focus. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe member is bringing a bill to the House. It\u2019s a serious matter. It\u2019s a matter of changing a law, a law that is a significant part of our economic framework, that is arguably part of our constitutional framework\u2014hasn\u2019t gone off to a select committee, hasn\u2019t had the ability to be scrutinised. And here we are because the Minister believes that somehow or other the Reserve Bank\u2019s focus on inflation has been diluted by the fact that we were asking them to also have a focus on supporting maximum sustainable employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo my first question for the Minister is: what advice, if any, has she received that there was less of a focus on inflation because of the dual mandate in the time that it has been in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfd0262a06084ae3993249fddb9518ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfd0262a06084ae3993249fddb9518ca\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E I have said that I\u2019ve been very much looking forward to this committee of the whole House stage to put a few questions to the Minister. So I\u2019d just like to back up those sentiments from the former Minister because, as we\u2019ve well canvassed\u2014and, actually, as is reflected in the monetary policy remit review from June 2023\u2014it\u2019s pretty clear in black and white from the Reserve Bank of New Zealand that there hadn\u2019t been any meaningful impact or other decisions that would have been made had they not had that dual mandate and solely the focus on price stability. So I just really wanted to reiterate that call for the Minister to put forward any evidence that she may have seen that this did, in fact, impact their decision making in a way that they undertook different decisions than those that they did take if they did not have that dual mandate in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESecondarily, or a second question to put forward to the Minister, because as is canvassed in the regulatory impact statement, there are a number of different options before her\u2014I believe three that her officials considered\u2014and there are a number of pluses and minuses on page 7, for those who may be following along at home. I wanted to ask the Minister if she meaningfully explored any of those other options, particularly on the monetary policy committee (MPC) remit only, or the Order in Council, but particularly on the remit, given that that seemed to be the advice of officials in the consensus that they all came to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo the first question was on the impact on decision making of that dual mandate. The second is on whether the Minister considered meaningfully any of the other alternative routes so that we wouldn\u2019t have to spend a few hours in the House tonight going through this legislative amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe third is what all of this actually means for the remit in general for the MPC. Throughout the last term in the Finance and Expenditure Committee, we spent a lot of time on particularly the remit and the remit\u2019s focus on sustainable house prices and the kind of ambiguity of that. So I just wanted to ask the Minister whether she had any consideration of\u2014given the kind of sole focus that she seems to have on price stability alone\u2014whether she intends to also drop that focus on sustainable house prices or insert any other variables. Because I\u2019ve at least heard it alluded to that there\u2019s the intention to still have some form of consideration to maximum sustainable employment, but it\u2019s not yet clear how that would take form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022e41172a7556843988b36cc7e3a69e510\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e41172a7556843988b36cc7e3a69e510\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As I\u2019ve alluded to before, we haven\u2019t had a select committee stage in this bill, but I have heard from a number of people, so I do want to bring some of those letters to the House so that they at least inform the discussions as we go through this part of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe first one is from Clare Hargrave, and she writes to me: \u201CI understand the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill is going through all stages in the House today, which is unfortunate because such an important move must be discussed widely and carefully.\u201D I am looking forward to hearing what the Minister says about this. She says, \u201CI strongly oppose the bill to remove maximum sustainable employment as an essential consideration for the Reserve Bank when setting monetary policy. It may be considered that high unemployment is useful to keep inflation down, but it is self-defeating in that high unemployment is bound to lead to increased expenditure on jobseeker benefits, greater inequality and poverty, with all its attendant damage, particularly to children\u2019s development as productive members of society. The short-term objective of higher unemployment may have an economic effect, but the long-term damage to society must result in a weaker economy, particularly in reduced productivity.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EShe goes on to say, \u201CInter-generational benefit dependence is damaging as it reduces access to education at tertiary level. An educated population is a public good in every respect, and anything that reduces that is damaging to society.\u201D She finishes off by saying, \u201CNew Zealand is not a business aiming to sustain high profits to the owners and shareholders but a society whose aim should be to sustain a high standard of public benefit to all its members while retaining a healthy economy.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EJust for context, this is someone I know in West Auckland. We were talking about this, and I invited her to write to me about it, and I did want to share this with the committee, and I will share some other letters in due course. But because we didn\u2019t have a select committee process, I think it is important to discuss some of these views from ordinary New Zealanders who are concerned about this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00226007c5856b6246d1ae0bf091e4ae587f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226007c5856b6246d1ae0bf091e4ae587f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Well, look, I\u2019d say to the member\u2019s constituent that I share her desire to see high employment, and have received advice that the pre-condition for that to occur is price stability, which is the objective of this bill. Not only do I share that objective from the member\u2019s constituent but I too abhor unnecessary dependence, and I would point to the fact that the previous Government managed the singular achievement of increasing dramatically the number of people on a jobseeker benefit even while unemployment fell. I would invite the member herself to explain that phenomenon to her constituents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe member prior to her asked why it is that we are amending the Act and whether we gave consideration to a change to the remit only. I would note that without amending the Act, the monetary policy committee (MPC) would still be required to have regard to maximum sustainable employment. So that would not achieve the objectives that we have, which is a single focus on price stability. And as I\u2019ve noted to the House previously, we have received advice that there is value in amending the Act to signal a greater focus on price stability than that which could be achieved through a new remit alone. I\u2019d also note the Reserve Bank\u2019s findings in its review last year, in which it said that a prioritisation of objectives was preferable. We believe that by having this single objective, we achieve that prioritisation in the clearest way possible, and that we provide benefits in clarifying not only how the MPC operates but we signal a greater focus on price stability for the future, because circumstances could arise in which the objectives conflict, and we wish to be clear about our priority on price stability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022fff55756d19f41238e51a5e9a864f985\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fff55756d19f41238e51a5e9a864f985\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Well, Mr Chair, I\u2019ll take it as a call, but I also will come back to this matter. I asked very clearly to the member Nicola Willis whether she had received any advice that at any point while the dual mandate has been in place, this compromised the Reserve Bank\u2019s focus on inflation. I asked that question in my first call and I ask that question again now of the Minister. It\u2019s an important point, because the Minister has spent a significant amount of time in this debate telling us that we need to be crystal clear and laser-focused on inflation, and what we\u2019ve heard consistently from the Reserve Bank Governor over the time that the dual mandate has been in place is that it has not caused him, or the monetary policy committee, or the Reserve Bank in general to take their eye off the ball of inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo I ask the Minister again, directly: has she had any advice that the dual mandate has caused the Reserve Bank to compromise its focus on inflation? I will sit down now, and I would like to hear an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002252bfab65febe4237ae438c111141cf9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252bfab65febe4237ae438c111141cf9d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. One of the issues that I would like some information and some answers from the Minister in the chair on is what advice she\u2019s had around international best practice. The Minister has talked about price stability being the pre-condition for high employment, but she hasn\u2019t addressed those questions that colleagues in the Chamber have been asking about the advice she\u2019d got around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to extend that to what advice she took around which other countries are doing it. There\u2019s a small number of central banks that have price stability as their sole mandate and focus and their sole economic objective. But a larger number have a dual mandate that equally weights price stability and employment objectives. Of course, this includes the US Federal Reserve. My colleague the Hon Grant Robertson talked about the way in which they\u2019re seeing very much those things that need to go together in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut the other thing that I\u2019d like to ask the Minister is: if she didn\u2019t look at the dual mandate, did she ask for any advice around having employment as a secondary objective within the legislation so that it wouldn\u2019t be that we\u2019re just giving up on a focus on jobs and wages for ordinary New Zealanders and retreating and being a bit of an outlier of the economies that we\u2019d usually compare ourselves with? So did she seek that advice on international best practice, and, specifically, whether she sought advice on having the secondary objective\u2014if she was intent in this ceremonial act of repealing this piece of legislation solely because it had been enacted by a previous Government, whether she\u2019d sought advice around the secondary objective?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00226d567a4d659541e380eb17a816067434\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d567a4d659541e380eb17a816067434\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Appreciate the Minister\u2019s answer to one of the three questions that I put just there before, but I would really appreciate her responses to those other two questions. Because I totally appreciate\u2014as she herself alluded to\u2014that the remit review in June 2023 spoke to the need for prioritisation of explicitly that dual mandate and particularly the foreshadowing or the primacy of the price stability focus. But again, my point was that that could be achieved through a change to the remit, as again was recommended by her officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI also am left with the question of if the factual mandate is to be removed from the legislation, how then is she to put forward the mandate to the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ)? Is she going to include some form of consideration for maximum sustainable employment or employment in general? Is she going to retain that remit which currently has a focus also on house price sustainability? Is there going to be a hierarchy therein? Because these are all still questions that are yet to be answered because we haven\u2019t had the opportunity to go through a robust select committee process on this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo I appreciate that the Minister alluded to an answer around whether she considered the monetary policy committee remit avenue as was recommended by officials, but we\u2019re still left really wanting for answers to those two questions of what the remit in general she intends to have contained, whether there will be any reference there to maximum sustainable employment or employment in general, whether there will be other variables in there, such as, for example, sustainable house prices presently in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e1165b1bb154ae48cd7a162a95c48a2\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the member asking this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229db1dedcd8794903a30f03e6126b56ef\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll have your turn, David. And also whether there will be any consideration of or any further outlining of the evidence that she has on whether there has been any meaningful impact on decision making by the RBNZ and the monetary policy committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd741af49c004920971381d87d6090ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd741af49c004920971381d87d6090ac\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the member\u2019s question: yes, I did receive advice that the dual mandate could affect monetary policy decisions, and in particular\u2014as I have stressed\u2014this is not just about the decisions the Reserve Bank makes but also the interpretation of those decisions. The Reserve Bank itself has supported the intention of clarifying its focus on inflation. And a further note that it is possible that some market participants will see the return to a single mandate as strengthening the Reserve Bank\u2019s focus on price stability that, in turn, will lead to an adjustment in their inflation expectations, which have a direct impact on actual rates of inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022529748e4afcf4639b38e7f711ba1ee77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022529748e4afcf4639b38e7f711ba1ee77\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order first, Mr Chair. I\u2019m very well aware, having sat in the chair that the Minister is now in, that one of the issues in the debates on the committee of the whole House is the question of new material and non-repetition. When a Minister fails to answer a direct question twice\u2014in the case that\u2019s just occurred\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279098a177efb4c038133f5f2d91ee3c7\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: How many times you did that to me!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229fb6cd3e36a4a9dadf88e61d708a5cb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The point of order will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225f6e1184f0d423ea11422c888e94dfa\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: I want to be assured that coming back to material that the Minister has failed to answer is not considered by you as a presiding officer as repetition, because the changes that were made to the Standing Orders to change this whole process of the committee of the whole House\u2014our Government worked extremely hard on actually answering questions, and I\u2019d like some assurance that that is going to occur now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c58948849be45468c5ea9cd10cae6fd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I\u2019ll treat that as a point of order; however, that is something for the Chair to decide. If the Minister in the chair does choose not to direct or respond to the questions, that may well be something that we take into account were we to receive a closure motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6ac71e434ce4ae6832ddb86f0e93f65\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Having asked the Minister twice now whether or not she received advice that, when the dual mandate was actually in place, that took the Reserve Bank focus away from inflation, and her not to have answered that question twice, it is clear that what we all know in this House is what the Reserve Bank Governor has said publicly, which is that it didn\u2019t. They knew that their job right now, with inflation spiking all over the world, was to bring it down, and it did not impact on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhen the Minister spoke before, she used the words \u201Ccould\u201D and \u201Cwould be possible that it might happen\u201D. That\u2019s not, Mr Chair, with respect, what I asked. What I asked was whether or not the Minister had been advised that there had been some kind of impact, and the answer is no. And that\u2019s the fallacy that this part of the bill is built upon. I\u2019ll give the Minister a chance now to answer another question, and that is whether or not she believes the Reserve Bank, in doing their job on monetary policy, should give consideration to the impact of monetary policy on employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EEarlier in the debate, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick said that she thought that the Minister had said that she thought employment should be part of the consideration; I\u2019m not sure I actually heard that, so I would like a clarification from the Minister as to whether or not she believes that there should be any consideration whatsoever of employment. We get the fact that the Minister doesn\u2019t want maximum sustainable employment to be one of the objectives. She\u2019s provided no evidence as to why that\u2019s a problem. In fact, she\u2019s refused to answer the question twice now of whether or not there is any evidence that it was a problem. So we can take from that that there is no evidence to back it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo, then, let\u2019s move to the next stage of this, which is whether or not employment should be considered at all. Now, I have to say that it would be a radical departure from monetary policy pretty much anywhere in the world to not consider employment at all. I get it; some people have this within their objective, like the Federal Reserve, like the Reserve Bank of Australia. Others have to refer to it: the Bank of Canada, the Bank of England. They don\u2019t have it directly in there, but they still think about employment, and we are moving into very, very dangerous territory if the position of the Minister is that employment, and the consideration of employment, has no role whatsoever, because that then will take us to the example that I gave in the second reading debate of when, in 2013 and 2014, we had a Reserve Bank Governor with the single mandate who simply believed that it was time for him to start lifting the official cash rate even though unemployment was up over 5 percent at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo I invite the Minister again, in light of the ruling the from the Chair, to answer the question of whether or not there is any actual evidence to back this bill up. It\u2019s not a \u201Ccould\u201D, it\u2019s not a \u201Cpossible\u201D; it\u2019s whether or not it did do anything to way the Reserve Bank worked on inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThen, secondly, I\u2019d like to know whether the Minister believes the Reserve Bank should be taking account of matters to do with employment, unemployment, or maximum sustainable employment when it is making its decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221d92db55a6e5420faa8db186045e6670\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d92db55a6e5420faa8db186045e6670\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair. The committee will resume at 9 a.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202312120cbf7968cde64901987b09c4d39c0471000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4edb636272247f793760b30c657cb16\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 12 DECEMBER 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002267448187e7124a5ea0721f0be40b11bd\u0022\u003E(continued on Wednesday, 13 December 2023)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c77fe46ee834ca6915855b56833560b\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b95b1a750724249967c49005bef37c9\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022108350a1db6e46ccb6eec5e1159a812a\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendment to Reserve Bank of New Zealand\u2019s objectives (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220ef1bec67cd44cfd9e71ecb26ee7e06d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ef1bec67cd44cfd9e71ecb26ee7e06d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the committee is resumed on the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill. When we suspended overnight, we were considering Part 1. Once again, the question is that Part 1 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMembers, before we begin, I will inform the committee that we have received a number of tabled amendments on this part of the bill. Some are in order and will be voted on. A number of amendments are contrary to the objectives and principles of the bill. The bill has a specific intention that is to narrow the Reserve Bank\u2019s economic objectives to a single focus on price stability. I have considered some amendments in the name of the Hon Grant Robertson that would expand the Reserve Bank\u2019s economic objectives and are therefore out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u002227b028ce380f48ccb832d54109feae97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227b028ce380f48ccb832d54109feae97\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak in this debate. This is my first contribution to the debate; I have not had an opportunity to speak in the first or second reading, so I\u2019m very enthusiastic to speak with the Minister today. Now, I have one specific question that is really important for me to have some answers on before I speak to the House about my proposed amendments. There are a number of amendments proposed in my name which I think will help the House to improve the intentions of the bill. However, I need some answers on these specifically. Just to flag for the Minister, the specific question is about the November 2021 Monetary Policy Statement of the Reserve Bank, but before I ask my question, I\u2019ll give a bit of context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo, recently, New Zealand\u2019s economy has been through a period of quite extreme fluctuation that, you know, fluctuated to a degree that we haven\u2019t seen in a very long time. Late 2020 through to early 2021 saw widespread concerns about rising unemployment. This was a period where the country\u2019s focus was on the immediate effects of COVID-19. We were in a period where both our fiscal and monetary policy had to respond to the concern that there would be widespread job losses in New Zealand, and that was focused, you know, in this global context of this happening all over the world. So we needed to act together as Government and as the Reserve Bank to guard against that. Then, continued weak economic activity in the wake of the initial shock from COVID-19 furthered that need to keep people connected with their jobs and their employers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBut some months later, the nature of what was worrying commentators actually changed. Policy makers had undergone this sort of whiplash shift between these extreme concerns looking overseas at job losses to then being worried about an economy with too much slack and that might have been in danger of overheating. It\u2019s quite unusual in the economic history of New Zealand, and very unusual around the world, where not only are we shifting policy priorities over, you know, say a year or two but, actually, that same concern is playing out within six months. So you have this challenge of inflation over the past few years in all advanced economies dealing with those ranges of shocks, but then we get to this problem of whether repealing the dual mandate might have had some stabilising effect on that, and my contention would be that it did not. Returning the Reserve Bank to a single objective here, I would say, wouldn\u2019t have had any effect on, you know, the way that the Reserve Bank was acting during that time period, and certainly not within the sort of 10 years preceding that. Had the Reserve Bank been operating under a straight inflation-targeting objective in recent years, it would not have had a different outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBut my question to the Minister is about whether she herself agrees with that contention, or whether, in her speeches to the House when she said that the change that she is proposing would have improved the situation with inflation, that\u2019s the case, because if the Minister is correct in her assertion that the Reserve Bank would have been able to do something different about inflation, then there might be something else going on which would be really useful for the House to know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo I come, then, to my question about the 2021 Monetary Policy Statement from the Reserve Bank that employment was above its maximum sustainable level. In more general terms, that means that unemployment was lower than it could be sustained. So my question to the Minister is: does she agree with that statement, and, if so, did she believe that the Reserve Bank was also acting in that way, because if the Reserve Bank was saying one thing and doing another, if they were in fact not acting to\u2014you know, if they were continuing on a project of trying to bring unemployment down, then perhaps she\u2019s right. She\u2019s told the House that this change will have an impact on inflation. Is that because she believes that the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ) was telling us in 2021 that maximum unemployment had been reached, but does she think that the RBNZ was not actually following what it was saying? This is important to my Amendment Paper that I\u2019ve proposed to clause 4, which provides a more flexible approach to monetary policy. If the idea is that the RBNZ says one thing and does another, then that won\u2019t work, and I want to hear from the Minister if that\u2019s what she\u2019s contending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002291bfaca05c0a4656a51033ca9b1fb08a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291bfaca05c0a4656a51033ca9b1fb08a\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002214b372e91a524e37b06b3f5621d1f531\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214b372e91a524e37b06b3f5621d1f531\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. There are many members on this side of the Chamber keen to contribute on Part 1 of this bill. I want to do two things in this call. I want to recap on two questions I asked the Minister last night that I have not had an answer to. The first of those is a very specific question on whether or not the Minister has had advice that there was anything in the dual mandate that caused the Reserve Bank to take its focus off reducing inflation. I asked that question twice last night and I haven\u2019t had an answer. It\u2019s a very important question because it goes to the heart of the Government\u2019s argument for why they are putting this bill, and clause 4 in particular, in front of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe argument being advanced by the Minister is that the Reserve Bank took its eye off the ball when it came to inflation. In fact, what we heard from the Reserve Bank Governor himself on multiple occasions is that that is not the case and that the dual mandate did not affect the focus on inflation. So I would like to know, again, whether or not the Minister has had advice to the contrary on that, because it is in fact the heart of what has been asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe second question that I asked last night and haven\u2019t had an answer to was whether or not the Minister believes that the Reserve Bank should take into account matters to do with the impact of monetary policy on employment at all. We\u2019ve established by the nature of the bill that\u2019s in front of us that the Minister doesn\u2019t believe it should be one of the two objectives of the bank. Having established that, then the question we want to know the answer to is: does employment have any role whatsoever?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, as I noted last night, it would be a radical departure by the Minister to not believe that employment had any merit for consideration, and in order to help shape this discussion, since the Minister declined to answer that question as well last night, I refer the Minister and indeed the committee to amendments in my name to clause 4 that would try to meet the Government halfway. It says to the Government, \u201COK, you no longer want two objectives in that clause that, arguably\u201D\u2014and I don\u2019t agree with this, but the Minister has argued this\u2014\u201Ccause confusion.\u201D I think the people who work at the Reserve Bank are capable of dealing with two issues at once. But if we want to meet halfway, I have an Amendment Paper that would make the maximum sustainable employment objective subservient or subordinate to the inflation control objective. Because that seems to be the issue that the Minister has raised in the House\u2014that somehow or other there\u2019s this confusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo if the Minister does believe that employment is a factor the Reserve Bank should take into account, which, as I say, every Reserve Bank in the world does, so if she doesn\u2019t believe that, we\u2019ve got a bigger problem and she should tell us that. But if that is what she does believe, then here is the opportunity for the Minister to agree to the Amendment Paper that I have put up, which would make the economic objective to achieve and maintain stability in the general level of prices over the medium term and, subject to that subsection, supporting maximum sustainable employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo it does the thing that the Minister last night said she wanted, which is a hierarchy of objectives. And this is a point too, because the Minister relied a number of times last night on the letter that she has received from the Reserve Bank indicating their support for\u2014and I believe this is the exact phrase\u2014prioritisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, that\u2019s actually quite different from what the Minister\u2019s proposing, because she\u2019s not proposing prioritisation; she\u2019s proposing getting rid completely of the maximum sustainable employment objective. So if she is so keen on the letter that the Reserve Bank Governor and the chair of the board sent to her, here\u2019s an opportunity to fulfil that by taking on board my amendment which would create the prioritised list that the Reserve Bank are looking for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo just to recap on my contribution, I\u2019m still after an answer to the question of whether or not the Minister has any advice or indeed any evidence of whether the Reserve Bank\u2019s dual mandate meant that they didn\u2019t take decisions on inflation control that they should have, and then, secondly, whether or not the Minister believes that employment should have a role in the decision making of the Reserve Bank when it comes to the official cash rate and its monetary policy. And if that is the case and she does think that, then there is now an opportunity here for her to adopt my Amendment Paper. But I would appreciate an answer to those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00220d909725d0344111863092360005cc02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d909725d0344111863092360005cc02\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, can I just remind the member that if this is the third time he\u2019s asked that question, it is leaning towards being repetitive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b70dc30b0ef74cb98744cc3db1a2b41c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b70dc30b0ef74cb98744cc3db1a2b41c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chair. With respect, last night I raised a point of order on this exact subject with the person who was the presiding officer in the Chair. I agree, and I raised it because I was concerned that a presiding officer would rule exactly the way that you just have. The new system that was brought in in last Parliament for the committee of the whole House relies on elements of cooperation around answering questions, and I sought a ruling from the presiding officer that if a question was not answered, referring again to the fact that it had not been answered, would not be repetition. The presiding officer said that would be a factor that he would take into account. I\u2019d be very concerned if the failure of a Minister to answer a question led to the closure of a debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u00222e2ba27f5882496a9915b52099039481\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e2ba27f5882496a9915b52099039481\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and a pleasure to be back debating this, this morning, after a late one last night. I still have a few points that I\u2019d like the Minister to address, and I think that they are really salient points, because while it may seem as though we\u2019re kind of splitting hairs here with this debate, the devil really actually is in the detail, because what this bill does is remove the dual mandate of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand\u2014the focus on price stability and on maximum sustainable employment. As the former Minister was just elucidating, we have quite a strong reliance on a report on the remit and the mandate from June 2023 from the monetary policy committee, which spoke about the need to have a potential hierarchical ordering of that dual mandate. That is, I think, what is largely reflected in the letter which the Minister has now tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, to that effect, I just really think it\u2019s important to drill into and to get some real clarity from the Minister on whether she thinks that employment, or maximum sustainable employment, or any iteration of that should be included within the considerations of the Reserve Bank when setting monetary policy. I heard from her very clearly in her answer last night that she does not believe that it should be, obviously, put in this legislative dual mandate, but the question still remains as to whether she thinks it should be within the broader monetary policy committee\u2019s remit, the likes of which house price sustainability has also currently been considered within.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI also have a further and important and interesting point on whether house price sustainability should continue to be considered within that remit too. Secondly, and it may feel like we are labouring this point, but this is a really, really important one, because it goes to the heart of the question of the purpose of this legislation. Again, we have had this over-reliance on this letter from the Reserve Bank Governor on the fact that there needed to be some hierarchical ordering of that dual mandate or a prioritisation of the mandate, and that financial stability should always take that primacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut, again, I do ask the Minister if she has seen any evidence as to whether that dual mandate has changed the focus or has meant that there has been a deprioritisation of price stability. Because if that is the case, then the words we have heard from the Reserve Bank Governor, Adrian Orr, in the Finance and Expenditure Committee hearings over the last three years are to be taken as untrue, and that\u2019s a pretty serious allegation which underlines the proposal herein.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe third thing is about that point of perception, and I think this is an important point that the Minister raised last night, and, obviously, it\u2019s reflected in the regulatory impact statement and also in a number of contributions from members of the Government. It\u2019s about how perceptions of the Reserve Bank\u2019s focus on inflation and price stability in turn impacts the behaviour of market participants and that those market participants then may behave in ways that result in more inflation or less thereof or otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo I was just wondering if the Minister could elaborate on that point. I\u2019m not here seeking to be obtuse but I think that it is a really relevant point. When we\u2019re talking about the economy, which, as we all know, is just all of us and the things we create and what we trade and the value that we produce and the earth that we live on\u2014and, you know, we have quite different ideological standpoints on how and where we should go and how we should create those rules and regulations. But none the less, who are those market participants and what kind of behaviour are we scared of them participating in which then results in that greater potential or inflation? What is the evidence that this decision is being made on? I think that is a valuable piece of information that the general public should be able to take from this that\u2019s currently being debated, because, once again, it\u2019s a fundamental premise of this legislation\u2014that perception is really, really important to the behaviour of those market participants. So who are they and how differently are they behaving as a result of this dual mandate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAnd just to potentially help move things along here with regard to getting more evidence on the table and therefore having a more thoroughly informed debate in lieu of not having a select committee process, the Minister has referred to the letter from the Reserve Bank Governor\u2014and I thank her for tabling it\u2014but may I ask her to table the letter that she wrote to the Reserve Bank Governor, because it feels as though there were a few options laid on the table therein, which means that potentially we could have a more informed debate if we were to understand what options she was seeking advice on and got a response upon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo just to be really clear on those points I\u2019m asking about. They are: what is the place for employment within the consideration of the Reserve Bank and the monetary policy committee when it comes to setting monetary policy? Is it to exist within the remit, and, as an addendum to that, where does house price sustainability sit within that if the general broader thrust is that there needs to be a laser-like focus on price stability solely? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe second is this outlying question\u2014a question that still remains on the table\u2014as to what evidence she has seen on whether the dual mandate impacted or meant that there was a lesser prioritisation of the price stability point of the mandate. Because, again, if that is the case, then are we to take it that Adrian Orr was not being forthright, upfront, or honest with the select committee? That is quite a serious underlying allegation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe third thing is: who are those market participants and what is this perception that we\u2019re scared about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00222aa7e36f9f7a459886e5064b07735e65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222aa7e36f9f7a459886e5064b07735e65\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, I\u2019m going to take this opportunity to spell out once again\u2014and repetition that I hope the House will indulge me in\u2014the answers to the repeated questions that clearly the former member for Wellington Central has failed to grasp the answers to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo he has asked about when might price stability in employment objectives be in conflict and have they been in conflict, and as I\u2019ve said in my contributions to the House previously, often the objectives of price stability and maximum sustainable employment will align. However, the objectives could move in opposite directions and one of the challenges that we have\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d20fc6a6332432289a085f80da3da02\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Not the question I asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229802faa00a6c4b79a8475ac7d3681a29\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and if the member would listen, he\u2019ll understand the answer\u2014having a dual mandate can present challenges to decision makers where objectives are in tension. In turn, this makes it\u2014and listen carefully here, Mr Robertson\u2014difficult to assess monetary policy committee performance, monetary policy committee performance, and to ensure accountability for decision making. Which is to say it is challenging to understand the decision-making processes that have been undertaken where we have\u2014this is, as I have been clear about providing clarity to everyone involved in the monetary policy regime, those assessing the decision-making processes of the monetary policy committee, the general public, and the members of that committee. And a single mandate makes clear what the objective of the monetary policy committee is, which is price stability\u2014putting a lid on inflation. It also makes clear that other matters such as supporting New Zealanders with the cost of unemployment\u2014that is the purview of fiscal policy, not monetary policy, because we don\u2019t think it makes sense to ask the Reserve Bank to try to solve a problem which is actually the presiding role of the Government and its policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s also the issue that there are real challenges to including maximum sustainable employment that arise from measurement issues, because it is more or less impossible to measure maximum sustainable employment. And I\u2019d note that some market participants, like Business New Zealand, have noted that with so many balls in the year, the bank can no longer concentrate on monetary policy\u2019s prime purpose of ensuring relatively stable price levels over time. And that, unfortunately, could reduce New Zealanders\u2019 confidence in the independence and predictability of the bank\u2019s monetary policy settings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also note, and Minister Robertson\u2014the former Minister Robertson may remember this, that when he introduced the maximum sustainable employment objective, it was recognised that at that time that if the bank put more weight on employment stabilisation at certain points in the cycle, that could lead to higher volatility in inflation. And I think everyone in this House knows that recent years have demonstrated the high costs of inflation and the impact that has had on New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c85f8baef8146568b32c938250cdcaf\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: But have they? That\u2019s the question you\u2019re not answering. Why don\u2019t you answer the question\u2014have they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294583cc0efcd4bbd8968d411c307d32d\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: So reducing the possibility of volatility\u2014Mrs Woods\u2014in future rates of inflation is actually a priority for this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI just want to move, second, to the question of the content of the remit and the charter. I want to assure the member Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick that we will retain the flexible inflation targeting regime under which the response of the Reserve Bank to inflation is tempered by considering the impact on other factors in the real economy. I will publish an updated remit and charter upon passage of this Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to note that there are a number of amendments that have been tabled and suggested by the member Hon Grant Robertson, who can\u2019t seem to make up his mind what the purpose of the Reserve Bank Act has been, because I can count several different ideas he has, which is rather symptomatic of the member\u2014that he couldn\u2019t just land on one thing. Well, on this side of the House we can land on one thing, which is: we\u2019re going to beat inflation, and this Act is going to help us do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00228571ca72534a4a94915c645465acd4f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228571ca72534a4a94915c645465acd4f3\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to ask you, Minister, about what I heard last night from many of the speakers on the Government side of the House. They talked about helping hard-working New Zealanders and I wondered how that was possible if the mechanism used puts such New Zealanders out of work, and that is my concern. I come from a background of employment law and I know how important it is that people work for their wellbeing and the wellbeing of their families, but I also know how important it is to the economy that people keep working. My understanding of the Reserve Bank is that, ultimately, it\u2019s there for the public good, so it\u2019s incredibly important that what it\u2019s achieving is done mindful of the full employment of people, if at all possible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EMy understanding of the term \u201Cmaximum sustainable employment\u201D is that it\u2019s a particular term used, because the \u201Csustainable\u201D part of that is that if there is any tension between full employment and price stability, price stability wins out. There is, in fact, a hierarchy built into the term itself. I wondered, when you talked about the objectives being intention, whether you\u2019d taken that into account or had any advice, because my understanding is that there is no tension, and that is why the Reserve Bank Governor has always been clear that there has been no problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, I do take on board that there is an issue raised about the perception of others, but I wondered and I wanted to ask you: isn\u2019t it our job as a Government and as a Parliament to lead, not to sap up the way that people misconceive things? We need to bust myths, not assist them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I ask you this: do you agree that it is our job to make sure that people understand that the maximum sustainable employment part of this commitment is for the public good and is, in fact, a nod to the fact that they are incredibly important to the economy and that we run institutions like the Reserve Bank and, in fact, the Parliament for the wellbeing of people? Aren\u2019t we actually in a situation that will lead to the alienation of the very people that we seek to support if, in fact, they lose their jobs in great numbers because the Reserve Bank is untethered from any concern about their wellbeing through work\u2014and isn\u2019t that what we\u2019re all here to do, Minister? Aren\u2019t we here to make sure that hard-working New Zealanders stay engaged and stay empowered by the fact that they can earn a decent living, and isn\u2019t that absolutely critical to whether they survive the economic ups and downs and the tides of inflation that we\u2019ve seen around the world? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI want to know what is it that you think the Reserve Bank is really about: why is it there, and why do we have any measures at all in this? I heard the Hon Grant Robertson talk yesterday about an earlier, historical occasion which really concerned me. It concerned me because a Reserve Bank Governor actually paid\u2014people paid the price in their work because the mechanisms of the Reserve Bank were being used to drive down inflation at the total expense of workers. That\u2019s the last thing that I want to see, and I wondered whether it is the last thing that you want to see, Minister. Do you want to see more unemployment if, in fact, that means that there will be a lower inflation rate, and at what point is that unacceptable to you? That\u2019s my concern\u2014where is the commitment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I wondered whether you would consider that, and why you would reject the amendments that have been put up that focus on a compromise here which makes it very clear that the Government and the Reserve Bank remain committed to full and stable employment. That seems incredibly important to me, and it really matters to people out there. It\u2019s all very well to talk about helping hard-working New Zealanders\u2014and I heard your colleagues say that over and over again\u2014and it\u2019s all very well to talk about how there is this scourge of theft through inflation, but the greatest theft is actually the capacity, isn\u2019t it, Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00221cb0405a30704b059bbc2e04e2320153\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cb0405a30704b059bbc2e04e2320153\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbdddc0db0e344bf8a0569f499997c20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbdddc0db0e344bf8a0569f499997c20\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want, first of all, to pick up on some of the reflections that the previous speaker, Helen White, just spoke about. Last night, I wasn\u2019t able to be in the House for a number of reasons and one of them was because I was attending the graduation of one of my children. As the member of Parliament for Mana, I\u2019ve been to a number of prize-givings over the last few weeks and there\u2019ve been some very strong messages that are coming out through both families who are attending these prize-givings\u2014in some of the lowest socio-economic areas in this country\u2014and through a number of the principals and the teachers I was speaking to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EIn one particular message last night, the actual principal of that school said, \u201CCan someone please tell the three Prime Ministers that, you know, learning through play, learning through camp, is the equivalent of learning literacy and writing\u2014there are other ways to be able to learn it, because they\u2019re already teaching the basics of learning and writing.\u201D But this links back to why I\u2019m standing in the Chamber and wanting to ask the Minister a question; it\u2019s around perceptions. And so there is a perception, sometimes\u2014by this Government, who has only just started\u2014that there are a couple of failings in the rest of society. And yet when you go out into a community and you talk to these people within this society\u2014both teachers and principals and families, and again, in some of the lowest socio-economic areas of the country\u2014the perception that they might hold might actually be very different to the truth that is being held by those within that community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EAnd the reason why I focus on the word \u201Cperception\u201D is because in the regulatory impact statement that has been put together by\u2014I think it\u2019s Treasury\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed489c1806d24022899acd0c90881621\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dca8537a01f24dec9539cbda02c6d3ed\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Treasury. And first of all, thank you very much for the Treasury officials for putting that together. I know it\u2019s going to be a bit of a rarity over the next 100 days, but it clearly shows that you can put together a regulatory impact statement very quickly. Why I wanted to be able to focus on the word \u201Cperception\u201D is because in paragraph 7 of that regulatory impact statement, it says: \u201CNonetheless, the dual mandate affects not only the policy decisions made by the monetary policy committee, but also perceptions of the effectiveness of monetary policy.\u201D Perceptions. And again, I found it quite unusual that quite a subjective type of word was used in a regulatory impact statement, and what I wanted to understand was: the perceptions\u2014when do they become evidence-based? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EAnd I want to reference the speech by the Minister when she stood up and she had a long speech, trying to address the question that the Hon Grant Robertson asked her around \u201Cevidence-based\u201D, but she didn\u2019t actually address the question, and so I want to go back to the regulatory impact statement that references perceptions. In relation to that\u2014perceptions\u2014it\u2019s actually talking about some of the Reserve Bank reports that have been done. But then if I go back to the evidence base, we need to go back to objectivity. So where does the evidence base come into this, and what advice has the Minister, again, received in relation to that evidence base? Because if you look at the relationship between our country\u2019s inflation trajectory and our central bank\u2014or Reserve Bank\u2019s\u2014mandate over the last two years, the evidence clearly shows a couple of things: that there is no such relationship that exists. Because if you look at other Governments which have higher inflation in countries with a dual mandate, but inflation is higher in those countries; and lower in countries with a single-mandate central bank. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo, unfortunately for the new Government, the perception that this dual mandate therefore makes it more difficult to focus on inflation seems null and void. Because again, in practice\u2014and you\u2019ve seen it through the Reserve Bank, the number of their documents, the Monetary Policy Statement. And I want to echo the sentiments of Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, the MP for Auckland Central, who said, \u201CWhat was that letter that their Minister actually sent the Reserve Bank Governor? I think it\u2019s important that that gets tabled because that will be the context in which the response by the Reserve Bank Governor is received.\u201D But when you look at New Zealand and Australia\u2014both of which have central banks with dual mandates\u2014inflation peaked at 7.2 percent and 7.8 percent respectively. But in Sweden\u2014which has a central bank with a primary price stability mandate\u2014it peaked at 12.3 percent. One mandate, higher inflation. Two countries: New Zealand and Australia, side by side in so many ways\u2014and lot of Kiwis who are going overseas who want to chase that Australian dream instead of the New Zealand dream. Basically, we have the same settings, and I know the Australian federal bank also had its review quite recently actually, in the last few weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo my question again to the Minister: what advice, what evidence-based advice\u2014not around perceptions\u2014as set out in the regulatory impact statement has she received?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff0fddc07644422e84c60862761bbddf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff0fddc07644422e84c60862761bbddf\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E I move that the debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8f9f766ae2247fd99bce0573b50731b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8f9f766ae2247fd99bce0573b50731b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that debate on this question ends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00228de30410fc7d4ffa849003f33e99e8f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228de30410fc7d4ffa849003f33e99e8f7\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chair. Two points. The first is that the member incorrectly stated the motion to close debate, so therefore it was not in order. Secondly, Madam Chair, you\u2019ll be very well aware, with the bill not going to select committee and a large number of my colleagues wanting to take a call about the concern we would have. But my primary point is the member did not close the debate correctly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa5c8390f6d84fc88eb58e5ca458ad94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa5c8390f6d84fc88eb58e5ca458ad94\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate I was unable to be in the House last night, but I do have an amendment, which I would like to speak to, so I appreciate the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe amendment goes to the heart of what we object to in this bill. If I was to be really cynical, I\u2019d say that the Government doesn\u2019t care about people who don\u2019t work, but they say they care about people who do work. The amendment restores the purpose of this monetary policy, and it would be to take out, remove in clause 7, the word \u201Cobjective\u201D and replace it with \u201Cwelfare of working people\u201D. It goes to the heart of what we are here for in Parliament. There might be some on that side of the House who say, \u201CWe\u2019re just here for the economy, because the economy will deliver to all of the people of New Zealand.\u201D Well, I\u2019d like to think we could go a bit further and say, \u201CWe\u2019re here for all the people of New Zealand.\u201D A well-run economy, an efficient economy, indeed enables us to deliver benefits. But the purpose is for people, not for the economy. And if you get that back to front, you end up with monetary policy that is pure but not delivering for the purposes for which this Parliament is in existence. We\u2019re here for the people of New Zealand\u2014we would say for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ENow, if we were to move in the direction of the current coalition Government, who say that we want everyone working, and those who don\u2019t work we\u2019d like to encourage them through incentives to get into work\u2014well, if indeed that is the true objective of the coalition Government, then I would suggest that they vote for the amendment that we have tabled in clause 7 and reinsert the purpose of the monetary policy, yes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294e99873d0dd4802afd86d3ff847a437\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, I\u2019ll just interrupt the member. We are still focused on Part 1 of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2c43377834b4b2eb7e98061e6d1365d\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Madam Chair\u2014Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df1ea11a01f14a01bb1601b89d6500ee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e22542a433ab4a599ff5d278d4deb485\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair\u2014sorry, I\u2019ve elevated you already, such is the honour of being the West Coast - Tasman MP. A very important honour, indeed; that\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI go back to the point that I made first, and it relates to Part 1 and Part 2, the purpose of this piece of legislation\u2014monetary policy in this country is actually for the people of the country. If we are to indeed have a dual purpose, which we should, then it must incorporate some reference to the people of New Zealand, not just to price stability. If we are to indeed look at price stability and ask the question as to why inflation has been so high, the reality is that we\u2019ve had a Ukraine war; we\u2019ve had closed COVID environments. Why have some prices gone up? Well, it has been import costs in some ways, but also the reason some have put up their prices is because they can. So I suggest that if the Government is as determined to bring down inflation, then it provides as much focus on commerce law and ensuring that there\u2019s indeed true competition across all parts of our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sure that this side of the House will support any attempt to expose opportunism, because I know opportunism\u2014maybe people on that side do know of businesses that have put up their prices because they can, which, actually, from a business perspective is not a bad strategy. But what we try to have in this economy is a competitive environment that keeps the lid on inflation, that doesn\u2019t allow people to exploit opportunities unfairly, and, indeed, I welcome that Minister\u2019s input to ensure that those areas of the economy where profits have been very, very healthy, where some might say that there have been drivers upward of prices and inflation, that maybe an attempt to focus on those areas might help keep the lid on inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EBut in terms of this piece of legislation, removing the dual purpose that we inserted into it is a backward step for a country that has prided itself on social justice, prided itself on ensuring that benefits flow to all New Zealanders, prided itself on being a leader in the world, and, at a time when other reserve banks have more than one purpose with monetary policy, we\u2019re taking a backward step, which seems to be part and parcel of the direction of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00227ade4893eb104bd7bfdf82561757c788\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ade4893eb104bd7bfdf82561757c788\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It would be useful if members, in making contributions at this committee stage, had read the bills. The purpose of the bill already promotes the prosperity and wellbeing of New Zealanders and contributes to a sustainable and productive economy, so that is made clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022d100b1dfa7134de39ce351e1e69eb3f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d100b1dfa7134de39ce351e1e69eb3f4\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022346755165e47493dbcc3ba2a8f3300b2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on the question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002266c8c4134040439ead97f477b6f2cfe4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266c8c4134040439ead97f477b6f2cfe4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225879043f4e804fc7b839ac4e17c92e17\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfffffb6fbb34d93b8f4e7f31d8a0af5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfffffb6fbb34d93b8f4e7f31d8a0af5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Grant Robertson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 4 to include in section 9(1)(a) the words \u201Csupporting the economic policy of the New Zealand Government, including its objectives for growth and employment\u201D be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002216066b619fc14815950595bc781f444f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022af3a6eb6aae94b21876a00f840f5e525\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af3a6eb6aae94b21876a00f840f5e525\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Grant Robertson\u2019s remaining tabled amendments to clause 4 are out of order as being inconsistent with the objects and principles of the bill. The Hon Grant Robertson\u2019s tabled amendment inserting new clause 4 to amend the purposes of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act 2021 is out of order as being outside the scope of the bill. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ed1fa0a392564f9385f2a64dc015f7d2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f782088f1a4b4100bd95d945d485be3c\u0022\u003EPart 2  Related amendments \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00229b4ab4fd22d649b5b177697720b2d143\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b4ab4fd22d649b5b177697720b2d143\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 2. Part 2 is the debate on clauses 5 to 13, \u201CRelated amendments\u201D. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00227d38c09f33584acaa21b28021b0b29c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d38c09f33584acaa21b28021b0b29c0\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you very much. Part 2 of the bill makes a large number of consequential changes as a result of Part 1 and the narrowing of the economic objective down. What it means is that a large number of sections in the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act where there has been reference to the dual mandate will now become null and void.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to begin my questioning of the Minister in this part by asking her the question as to whether or not she believes that there is anywhere in the other parts of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act that the concept of maximum sustainable employment could be incorporated. The reason I ask this, Madam Chair, is because in Part 1, as you know, we didn\u2019t get an answer to the question from the Minister as to whether or not she believed that the Reserve Bank should take into account concepts\u2014be it maximum sustainable employment or any other concept\u2014of employment as being a relevant consideration in monetary policy. As we know, this is, in fact, the view that the Reserve Bank stated to the Minister in the letter that she tabled to the House last night. It\u2019s a question of prioritisation, not a question of exclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister here is that there are a large number of sections of the Act being amended in Part 2, and would the Minister consider that within those sections, there is scope to at least give the opportunity for the Reserve Bank to be able to speak more about employment, or consider employment more in the work that they do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI mentioned earlier on in contributions on this matter that other central banks around the world certainly do do this. Now, they do it in a number of different ways. So a further question for the member is what consideration she gave to international examples of the way in which employment considerations are reflective. This is relevant to Part 2, because it is in these clauses that this becomes effectively operative, as noted by the repeal of a number of words by the Government in these clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI will shortly table a number of amendments that would give an opportunity for the Government to be able to express that the Reserve Bank does in fact have a role when it comes to employment. There would be, for example, the ability to amend section 130 of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act, which would require a report on monetary policy to look at the impacts of the monetary policy committee\u2019s approach on economic development and employment. That amendment, I believe, will be tabled in the name of Deborah Russell, when the time comes. It\u2019s an example of the point I\u2019m making here and the question I\u2019m asking the Minister, as that would give an opportunity for, at the very least, a report to be made by the monetary policy committee to talk about employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBecause we come back to the very beginning of this discussion: the Minister has presented no evidence to the committee that there is any conflict between the two. We\u2019ve now gone through Part 1 and the objective has been narrowed. Here\u2019s the opportunity for the Minister to actually acknowledge that people\u2019s jobs, the wages that they earn, are important, to take the point that both Damien O\u2019Connor and Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick made in Part 1: the economy is more than just the numbers on the page. It\u2019s all of the things that people do in their day-to-day lives, and most importantly, in this case, the work that they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo here is an opportunity for the Minister to take up the idea that the Reserve Bank, like all other central banks around the world, should at least consider employment, and the clauses being amended in Part 2 are the place where the Minister can insert that. So I invite her to answer the question: is she prepared to take on the idea that employment is important and significant for a bank and use these clauses in Part 2 to be able to add in references to employment and ways in which the Reserve Bank could take them into account? If she doesn\u2019t, that signals a very radical departure from what has been monetary policy over many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2d7265121584ebc8280d37a7b8f4ce1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2d7265121584ebc8280d37a7b8f4ce1\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a number of questions pertaining to Part 2 of this bill. As the previous speaker, my colleague the Hon Grant Robertson, has indicated, the objective now has been changed through the passing of Part 1 of the bill, but in Part 2 there are a number of amendments, and given that now it is being narrowed down to that sole objective of the Reserve Bank, in Part 2 we have the opportunity\u2014what measures are we going to put in place to ensure that employment is something that is still on the radar of the Reserve Bank? I have two amendments in my name to Part 2 of this bill; I\u2019d like to speak to one of them in this call, and I\u2019ll speak to another in a subsequent call that I have and some questions for the Minister of Finance around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe first amendment that I will be tabling is that we extend the membership of the monetary policy committee to contain no fewer than one trade union or worker representative. The purpose of this amendment is providing that consideration to employment matters when the monetary policy committee does come to consider these matters, that they do not lose sight of that incredibly important factor that needs to be considered\u2014accepting there is the sole mandate that the objective has been narrowed to, but there is not a central bank in the world, even those with sole mandates, that doesn\u2019t have some ability to keep sight of employment as an objective. So this would be a mechanism by which we could ensure that when monetary policy settings are being considered, there is that ability to keep that line of sight into things and that when those decisions are being made, those perspectives are being brought to bear. My colleague the Hon Barbara Edmonds, in a contribution she made on Part 1 of this bill, tied back what was happening in this bill to her community at a prize-giving that she was at last night in Porirua, and how it is that those voices, when it comes to considering the decisions of monetary policies, which are about people\u2019s jobs and wages and employment, how it is that we can ensure there are mechanisms for those considerations to be taken into account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo my question for the Minister in the chair is: given that there is going to be the sole mandate, what mechanisms is the Minister going to put in place to ensure that we do not lose sight of those perspectives around employment when decisions are being taken by the monetary policy committee? If she isn\u2019t willing to accept the amendment that there be no fewer than one trade union or worker representative that sits on that committee so they can bring those perspectives to bear, what alternative measures is she going to put forward, if any, to ensure that we do not lose sight of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOne of the questions that I put to the Minister in Part 1 of the bill that wasn\u2019t answered was about advice she had received around international best practice, particularly around secondary objectives. Now, I recognise we\u2019ve moved beyond Part 1 of the bill and it\u2019s not about that, but what I\u2019d like to know from the Minister: has she received advice about international best practice when it comes to a central bank with a single objective\u2014how it is that they can ensure that that line of sight is kept into employment? Obviously, you\u2019ve heard in a number of speeches that the economy exists about people, that this is what the real economy is about. It\u2019s about the people that Barbara Edmonds talked about in her speech. It\u2019s about the members of my community in Wigram, that want to know that their jobs and their security are being taken into account when decisions are made when it comes to monetary policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo if not this amendment, then what, and what advice has the Minister received, either around options that she may have received from officials around that or what advice has she received on international best practice around mechanisms that can ensure that that line of sight is not lost when our central bank is narrowed to a single objective?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cca924a89d334dd9bd5187ad47001380\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cca924a89d334dd9bd5187ad47001380\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Returning the Reserve Bank to a single mandate is by no means out of step with international best practice, so long as a flexible approach to inflation targeting is maintained\u2014which is allowed for by this Act\u2014which means that the monetary policy committee can still have regard to the impact on the real economy in determining how quickly to achieve their primary goal of sorting out inflation. I would note that members are asking a number of questions that relate to the monetary policy committee remit, which the sooner we get this debate done, the sooner I can publish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3f8f82a07dd4961979c6328eea70cec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3f8f82a07dd4961979c6328eea70cec\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Given what the Minister has just said about the importance of stabilising the real economy, I\u2019m proposing an amendment to set that out clearly in the primary legislation. If the committee will turn its attention to the amendment in my name to clause 6. It\u2019s to replace clause 6, section 10(1)(a)(i) with \u201CFormulating through the MPC and implementing a monetary policy directed to the economic objective of stabilising the real economy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMadam Chair, if you\u2019ll just let me bring the committee back to my contribution in the first part of this debate, I gave some context around the recent economic fluctuations that New Zealand\u2019s economy has seen. This relates directly to the economic situation we find ourselves in now and my questions to the Minister about whether or not it is true that this bill would have an effect on our inflation now. So the contention on this side of the House is that had the dual mandate actually caused the Reserve Bank to stay its hand and counteract inflation in a half-hearted way, then we would expect to see notable differences in the approach of our Reserve Bank as compared with those economies that have a Reserve Bank with a single mandate. That\u2019s not actually the case. The Reserve Bank\u2019s approach has not only been in line with international counterparts with a single mandate but they actually chose to tighten their approach to the availability of cash in the economy faster than some of their international counterparts with a single mandate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EAnd so why that\u2019s relevant to this amendment that I\u2019m proposing\u2014and I hope the House will take into consideration when voting on it later\u2014is that this is a measure of meeting the Government halfway. It\u2019s saying that in our primary legislation we all around this House acknowledge that the Reserve Bank has a role in stabilising not only the effect of price changes on consumers and on working people but also on their ability to get work and, if they are laid off from their jobs, to be able to find a new job. Having employment\u2014especially for those people on the margins of employment, people who are M\u0101ori, people who are women, people who live in regions where unemployment climbs faster than those in the cities\u2014is an important goal of the monetary policy committee and will always be a consideration. We\u2019ve heard that from the Minister, and that is helpful for this debate to advance in that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo, if that is the case, if we all agree that our monetary policy should be focused on inflation and should also take into account the effect it has on the real economy, and that stabilising the economy is not only stabilising prices, it\u2019s also stabilising people\u2019s experience of the real economy, then it is useful for us as a House to say that in the primary legislation. It\u2019s useful for us to set out that goal really clearly. You\u2019ll have heard my colleague the Hon Grant Robertson talk about the need for the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ) monetary policy committee to do two things at once to be able to consider those things. The Minister needs to tell us if she does not have confidence in the monetary policy committee to also take into account the effect of their decisions on employment and people\u2019s enjoyment of a stable economy, because that would be a radical departure of the Government\u2019s approach to what it is telling the RBNZ. And because we haven\u2019t had a select committee stage here in this legislation it\u2019s also really important that we have a sense of where the Minister is tracking in her intentions with the RBNZ and how things will go forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMadam Chair, if you\u2019ll allow me to just comment briefly on the lack of a select committee stage on this. It is a shame, I think, because the role of monetary policy within our economy is something of the constitutional framework of New Zealand. The RBNZ\u2019s role should be independent from Government, and this section that I am seeking to amend actually makes that really clear. It says, \u201CFormulating through the MPC and implementing monetary policy directed to the economic objective while recognising the Crown\u2019s right to determine economic policy.\u201D Those are balancing two considerations at once as well; we\u2019re recognising that the RBNZ was designed in the 1980s when the Government did not have an independent approach to monetary policy in the same way, and that the RBNZ\u2019s independent role is really important in establishing consumers\u2019 and market participants\u2019 faith in our economy and expectations that things will remain stable over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIf we have a Minister who\u2019s proposing that the RBNZ was saying one thing and doing another in its 2021 monetary statement then we do need to know that. We need to establish that, and that there will be a departure from the way that the Hon Grant Robertson has dealt with the RBNZ. I don\u2019t think that that\u2019s the case and that\u2019s why we should make my amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00226bfc589c5a0447fd90de5a8fdb896567\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bfc589c5a0447fd90de5a8fdb896567\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to respond to a question put by the Hon Megan Woods which I think illustrates just how far the Labour Party is now prepared to stray from economic orthodoxy, because what she asked is whether a union rep could be appointed to the monetary policy committee. Now, this represents a significant departure from the Reserve Bank as it was presided over by the former Minister of Finance, the Hon Grant Robertson, in which he oversaw the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act 2021, that in Schedule 3, clause 20, says that, \u201CA person [may] not be appointed on the basis that the person represents a particular industry sector.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIn fact, when Grant Robertson, back in the days when he used to do the make-believe that he believed in economic orthodoxy and he was responsible, he presided over an Act in which Schedule 3, clause 20 specifically required the Minister to appoint only \u201Ca person who, in the Minister\u2019s opinion, [had] the appropriate knowledge, skills, and experience\u201D\u2014the appropriate knowledge, skills, and experience\u2014\u201Cto assist the monetary policy committee [in] its functions\u201D. So I think what we can see, members, is that just as they strayed away from economic orthodoxy and threw new objectives at the bank and threw it at the wall and failed to actually achieve anything, so they will continue for the next couple of years straying from the orthodox path, being prepared to put the economy at risk. And what a concern that is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d192f972b62640d78f8e8297f28edce8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d192f972b62640d78f8e8297f28edce8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Dr\u2014sorry, the Hon Dr\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ef40155069d4acaa2a16bad1572db32\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Deborah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d308b4a20c6445d6ab9d427640efe7a9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Deborah Russell. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022da0bb45214024d1b96edf5ac51809699\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da0bb45214024d1b96edf5ac51809699\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We got there in the end. I have been seeking the call all morning, so I thank you for giving me an opportunity now. I have been seeking it because we did not have a select committee stage on this bill and so if we don\u2019t have a select committee stage, for new members, the usual practice is to have a pretty extensive debate in the Chamber, and certainly more debate than has been allowed until now. So we do want to canvass some pretty serious issues in the Chamber, given that we were not able to do it in the select committee. Because we weren\u2019t able to do it in the select committee, we weren\u2019t able to hear submissions from people who had a real concern about the bill but I have sought opinions from people who have views on this bill and I want to bring one of those. To me, it\u2019s written here; I\u2019ve received it the last couple of days. It speaks particularly to a new clause that I have suggested for this part of the bill. I have an Amendment Paper there inserting a new clause which suggests that there should be compensation for workers adversely affected by monetary policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo, in support of this particular amendment\u2014here\u2019s what a westie, a west Auckland person, Michael Bain, wrote to me about this bill. He started because he was concerned, too. He said, \u201CI have heard that the Government is attempting to rush through the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill which is of concern for me as any changes to this must and need to go through the select committee process as a bare minimum.\u201D So, in lieu of that bare minimum, I\u2019m going to read some of his submission which goes directly to this amendment that I have proposed. He points out that only focusing on inflation means that unemployment is used to keep inflation artificially low\u2014used to artificially keep inflation low. He says \u201Cartificially\u201D because although low inflation rates look good on paper, it does not take into consideration the impact and harm done on people, wh\u0101nau, and communities where people have lost their jobs. It goes on to say high unemployment is damaging to our country, and having economists say that we need higher unemployment for a stronger economy is a morally reprehensible and irresponsible stance. It is also the stance of someone who has never had to line up at Work and Income to ask for help to cover the costs of schooling for a child, or to explain why childcare costs are more this month than they were last month. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThen Michael goes on to say, \u201CI remember the economic policies of the 1990s under Jim Bolger\u2019s and Jenny Shipley\u2019s Government, where high unemployment was used as a tool to keep inflation rates down. I had just graduated from university and it was really hard to find a job at the time. I ended up spending a number of months on the unemployment benefit, now called jobseeker support. Every week, I had to go to a Work and Income office and explain what I had been doing in seeking work. It was embarrassing and degrading to have to go in every week. It felt like I was being interrogated and I was being judged for not having a job\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d018e59462c44d4ab6706be72e3572bb\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: What does this have to do with Part 2?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ffc450b95b049e3a7723d1e4661cd70\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014or for not trying hard enough\u201D\u2014it goes to my amendment\u2014 \u201Cdespite doing everything I could. I heard from a number of my fellow university graduates who were going through the same thing and were struggling with the same feelings of being judged and not being considered worthy enough.\u201D No one should be forced into that scenario. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo employment purpose, it gives people motivation, it gives people hope, and it gives people inspiration. Unemployment is the opposite; it sucks hope out of life, it steals purpose, it drains motivation, and it kills inspiration. Knowing that the Government and the Reserve Bank are using unemployment as a tactic to make the economy appear better than it actually is is dehumanising. Then he asked me to really push this in the House and here\u2019s the line that really got to me: he said, \u201CWe cannot see a return to 1990s ideology where people\u2019s jobs and livelihoods are sacrificed on the altar of a low inflation figure.\u201D That is why I have proposed this amendment. If we are going to sacrifice workers, if we are going to force people into unemployment in order to adjust around inflation then, he says, there should be compensation for those workers who are used as a tool in the economy. That is why we actually need to retain both maximum sustainable employment and price stability in the objectives for the Reserve Bank. So this goes to the heart of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00225681ec74e1d243e19d91d41fb5a924e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225681ec74e1d243e19d91d41fb5a924e1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002285f15dce3cae4f7b963d35c3decba888\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285f15dce3cae4f7b963d35c3decba888\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m very pleased to follow on from my colleague the Hon Dr Deborah Russell, the previous speaker, who pointed to the past and the direction of travel for this not \u201Cback on track\u201D but backtrack Government. The Minister spoke of economic orthodoxy or monetary orthodoxy, and on the same day that we\u2019ve been in lockstep with the Canadians and the Australians on a humanitarian crisis, we seem to be moving apart when it comes to monetary policy. Because if we have a look at what Australia had proposed, of course, it had talked about a triple mandate. The recommendations that had come back on that review said no, it should go back to a dual mandate that included a secondary objective, which was, of course, employment. If we have a look at Canada, the Bank of Canada is now required to actively seek a level of maximum sustainable employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s simply sensible, logical, and progressive to include more than a single mandate for monetary policy. That was the doctrine of the 1990s that did result in the kinds of manipulation of employment rates to keep inflation down, and we do not want to go back to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe points I made\u2014and I appreciate I got ahead of myself a little bit on Part 1, but Part 2 is around ensuring that we have more than a single objective. Because people are in this House, in Parliament, and should be in Government, even in a coalition Government that might be a muddle\u2014they should be here for people, for the multiple purposes that people exist and work in New Zealand, not for the purpose of a low-inflation economy that is supposed to automatically deliver benefits for each and every New Zealander.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EBecause the reality is if the Reserve Bank is to manipulate things to ensure that unemployment rises to stop any labour inflationary pressures\u2014and that\u2019s an economic, logical argument. That\u2019s the reality, of course. And there\u2019ll be people who say that, you know, if we have full employment\u2014and the coalition Government is saying that: if employment is part of this, then in fact we may have pressure from the labour market upward that flows through to inflation. That indeed is a reality, but so too is the opportunity to increase profits if you\u2019re in a part of the economy that has a monopolistic position where they can push up prices just because of the benefit of scale or lack of competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ENothing is referenced in this piece of legislation to address some of the other pressures on inflation. All this coalition Government is attempting to do is to take away the focus of full employment as an objective for monetary policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWell, I would like to\u2014and I heard on the hustings from many people across the other side of the House that we want as many people working as possible, and 100,000 people who should be working, who are not working, should get off their backsides and go and work. That\u2019s what I heard. And yet this Government has come in and one of the first pieces of legislation\u2014in fact, the first piece of legislation\u2014is to remove the objective in the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act to try and get that to happen. That is to make sure that monetary policy, a core framework for our country, has, as part of its objective, employment as well as low inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis is a backtrack piece of legislation, and I am horrified that we\u2019re running counter to economic orthodoxy, not buying into it, when countries like even the US, but in particular Canada and Australia, have more than a single mandate, because they understand that monetary policy must work for their people. And it should work for the people of New Zealand, not just work for the economy. What is the economy? What\u2019s it here for? It\u2019s for the people, the people, the people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation is a backtrack one, and I wish to see my amendment supported by members on the other side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4175023f41d427788cfbe6923f64837\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4175023f41d427788cfbe6923f64837\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ve spoken to one of the amendments that I\u2019ve put up to Part 2, and I\u2019d like now to take the opportunity to speak to the second part\u2014although I am still waiting for an answer from the Minister on the first amendment I put up, around the mechanism that is going to be put in place to make sure that we can still have sight. And also, additional to that, the question I asked was about advice she received about what options there were, or what international best practice there was for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe only answer we\u2019ve had from the Minister has been to say, \u201CWell, we\u2019re not having a union member, because under your Government and under Grant Robertson, you wouldn\u2019t have one either.\u201D But the mere fact of the matter that we had a dual mandate made that not as necessary. So the question for this Minister to answer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b0c5b67f0d743f2bacd006d35f6ae32\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Oh so that\u2019s why you had the dual mandate\u2014for your union mates!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9a2e2e7d0ce42b09f8b4a0fefb428be\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014not just point to what happened under the previous Government, is that given she is narrowing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e46a3cd19884afba97c5be69a9f7ce7\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair. I hope you can give the committee some guidance on Speakers\u2019 ruling 66/2. There\u2019s a convention that, in committee, members in charge of legislation should not take interjections, given that the mike is in front of them and that they have an unfair advantage. I know the Minister is passionate about this topic, but she had interrupted one of my honourable colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022339a5789d1384134aa1cb9924ae63cf3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you to the member for that point of order. I think the message has been directed to the new Minister. Now that she\u2019s aware of it, it won\u2019t happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280fcd8d0701e4dd2873beb39b4de0f2b\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Further point of order, Madam Chair\u2014it\u2019s a technical one. The clock kept counting down through that. I think it was at 3 minutes 56 when my colleague took the point of order, so I\u2019d hope that would be added back into my colleague\u2019s time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022552baefedced42f3aee26fa198b95e14\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure we can add that back in, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227945fd7b94a4bfe8e7f872bf4424e80\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS\u003C/span\u003E: No matter what, we\u2019re still waiting for those answers from the Minister\u2014given the legislation is to have a single and narrow purpose around that mandate, what will she do to ensure that the bank and the monetary policy committee does not lose sight of employment, or maximum sustainable employment, or whatever she wants to call it, when it comes to making those decisions. Merely to stand up and say that Grant Robertson did or didn\u2019t do it, now the Minister actually holds a warrant isn\u2019t actually an answer. So the committee is still waiting for some clarity on that from the Minister in the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll take the remainder of this time to talk to the second amendment that I\u2019m putting up in Part 2 of the bill, and that is around a new clause 14, to insert the following new section, which is a review of the Act: \u201CThe impact of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill 2023 on inflation, employment, and economic output will be reviewed by an independent expert panel after three years of entry into force.\u201D The purpose of this amendment is to make sure that there can be that independent and expert review into the efficacy of the bill in improving outcomes for all New Zealanders. This does support the purpose of the bill that the Minister is saying she wants to have, which is that clarity to the Reserve Bank\u2014she\u2019s making it crystal clear that people\u2019s jobs and employment aren\u2019t a focus that she wants her Government or the Reserve Bank to have in their sights\u2014but it is also about how the financial markets and the public can see how monetary policy decisions should and will be formulated. That three-year independent review will also give an opportunity to check in about whether there has been a loss of sight around having a secondary and subordinate line of sight into matters of employment and making sure that people\u2019s jobs are something that are taken into account and the ability of people to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMy question for the Minister, if she is not going to support this amendment, is: what mechanisms will be in place to ensure that there can be scrutiny and that there can be monitoring to ensure that we are not getting into situations that we have seen in the past, when the legislation did have a single and narrow focus, where we saw the interest rate being raised when there was high unemployment? Members and my colleagues on this side of the Chamber have talked about and read out\u2014and the Hon Deborah Russell read out a contribution from someone in her electorate\u2014where the public has a fear that their jobs and their security are being sacrificed. How are we going to give the public confidence? What is the scrutiny? What is the ability of people to have that monitoring, so that there is not a loss of sight of the fact that people\u2019s jobs and employment will be given some weight when it comes to decision making?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to hear from the Minister not only on what she\u2019s going to put in place but on what options and what advice she received around what we could do to ensure those mechanisms were in place, and what it was she gave weighting to in decision making around this, and what the criteria for the decision making were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00222acbb6c2910645efb51490541e7bfda8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222acbb6c2910645efb51490541e7bfda8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The irony of that contribution is not lost on me\u2014as a member of a Government that repeatedly denied the Finance and Expenditure Committee the opportunity to review the economic decision-making by her Government in the period after COVID, where mass levels of fiscal and monetary stimulus led not only to massive asset price inflation, widening the gap between those in assets and those without, but also led to extraordinary inflation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIn specific reference to member Woods\u2019 proposal to review the Act, there is already a post-implementation review of the Act due by 2027.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00220da7f1d782154ea49429008ea2c62852\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220da7f1d782154ea49429008ea2c62852\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to take a further call on this part and ask a couple more questions of the Minister. Firstly, just before I do that, I want to go back and refer to the Minister\u2019s comments that she made around Dr Woods\u2019 amendment in terms of finding a place for the voice of workers. It is very clear to members on this side of the House that having removed the dual mandate, Part 2 of this bill offers the opportunity for the Minister\u2014for the Government\u2014to be able to actually give some evidence to the fact that they still think that the Reserve Bank should have the opportunity to consider matters of employment, or the labour market generally when it comes to setting monetary policy. The Minister, in an earlier contribution, mentioned the flexible approach being maintained\u2014well, that\u2019s actually not the same thing. What we\u2019re talking about here is how do we compensate now for not having the dual mandate in question? So that was the purpose of Dr Woods\u2019 amendment, to find a way of doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe have in fact offered a number of opportunities for the Minister to take up ways in which Part 2 could be used to ensure that, actually, employment and other economic objectives could be taken into account, be it in the remit, or be it in the reporting arrangements, or the review arrangements\u2014there are amendments on the Table in colleagues\u2019 names on all of those matters. This is the opportunity and, as Minister Dr Woods\u2014former Minister Dr Woods just said, if not these amendments, then what? Because if we are left in a position where the Reserve Bank is now being told by the Government it shouldn\u2019t be considering employment or labour market matters at all, we are in a very difficult and dangerous position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe second point in question I wanted to put to the Minister in this particular call is around the amendment in clause 11 of the bill to section 125, which is the section of the Act as it currently stands that allows for a different economic objective or objectives. Now, this clause exists in the Act as it stands today in order to give flexibility to the Reserve Bank should a set of circumstances occur in which they require to do more than the objectives as they currently stand. So just one objective now, after the decisions in Part 1 on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to ask the Minister what her intention is, if, for example, we come to a period where there is for some reason or other a massive spike in unemployment? And in the old days, this used to be called the \u201Cfoot and mouth clause\u201D, which is that if there was a massive outbreak of something like foot and mouth\u2014which would be an absolute disaster for New Zealand\u2014it would of course have a massive effect on employment in the rural sector in New Zealand and resulting in our rural communities. So the question I\u2019m really asking the Minister here is: does she believe that the power should still exist to add objectives? I think she does. I think that\u2019s what this means, and, if so, wouldn\u2019t it be better to take up one of the amendments of the Government that would make clear that employment and labour market matters are still the ones that we would primarily be concerned about? Should we be needing to use section 125 as contained in clause 11?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo just to recap for the Minister, I\u2019m continuing to want her to answer the earlier questions that have been asked about whether or not she believes that the bank should continue to have regard to employment and labour market matters and monetary policy, and then, if that is the case, what would she propose to ensure that that happens, if it is not adopting the amendments that have been put forward by my colleagues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022b92e8c2e6b71408fb2b8f5219445f517\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b92e8c2e6b71408fb2b8f5219445f517\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to take the committee through my tabled amendments. There are eight of them, so I will turn to them in a second. I\u2019m considering an amendment to the amendment moved in the name of the Hon Megan Woods that would be an amendment to the amendment, but I\u2019m seeking some clarification from the Minister before I do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo you\u2019ll know that the Hon Megan Woods has proposed an amendment which would, effectively, allow someone with a focus on unemployment and the effect that would have on working people to contribute to monetary policy. And I think it\u2019s relevant since this bill has not had a stage in select committee to turn to some of the submissions by people who would fit that bill\u2014who have expertise and the experience of working people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll turn the committee\u2019s attention to the submission of the Council of Trade Unions (CTU) made on 7 September 2018 to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. This submission was on the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Monetary Policy) Amendment Bill at the time, but the comments made in that submission are directly relevant, particularly in this part which deals with the Minister\u2019s contention that, you know, it might be contrary to what the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ) is trying to do\u2014to have a representative with this expertise contributing to monetary policy. The comments of Sam Huggard, the secretary, are: \u201CWe also wish to make it clear that unions and workers recognise the damage that can be caused by high inflation.\u201D That points to an imperative that the CTU recognises where the RBNZ should be focused on inflation. \u201CThe purchasing power of wages is easily eroded by rapidly rising consumer prices. Our criticism in the past of the application of monetary policy due to the adverse effects of employment, output, and the exchange rate does not imply that we disagree with price stability. The issue is more that at low levels of inflation the costs of extracting the last bit of inflation out of the economy can outweigh the benefits.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is an important view because it really nicely captures the tension that we always ask the RBNZ to manage. It points, as well, to where you don\u2019t have a dual mandate, you\u2019re constantly asking the RBNZ to also have in the back of its mind the impact on working people\u2019s experience of the economy, low-wage earners\u2019 experience of the economy, and stabilising that for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EHe goes on to say, \u201CAlso, the rigid application of a target over too tight a time frame can damage employment prospects for workers.\u201D And here we get to the nut of the issue that the CTU was submitting on where they were criticising the previous approach of the RBNZ as being too focused on inflation during the period prior to 2018. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIf I bring the committee back to my comments on Part 1 of this bill, that is not the situation that we are in now. In fact, there is no evidence that has been presented to this committee by the Minister or any of the contributors from the Government side that the dual mandate actually had an effect in the last three years on inflation. The RBNZ was never asked to choose between its focus on unemployment and on curbing inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll also turn the committee\u2019s attention to a letter to the Finance and Expenditure Committee dated 7 December 2018, from the secretary of FIRST Union, Robert Reid. This is another expert within the field of the experience of working people and the economy. He said, \u201CThe employment of our members has been particularly affected in periods where the Reserve Bank has run high interest rate policies in order to keep within a relatively low inflation window.\u201D What he\u2019s pointing to there is the effect on unemployment when you have an RBNZ that has set out to, essentially, extract the cost of a period where the economy is hot from working people rather than from those people with savings. He goes on to say, \u201CWe have seen these policies choke off growth\u201D, and there he\u2019s talking about the effect on the productive economy. Not only working people, but our hard working exporters\u2014people within the rural sector who rely on the official cash rate to export their goods at a price that is competitive overseas. He says, \u201Cdirectly and also indirectly through increasing the exchange rate which has made our exports dearer and caused employment loss in New Zealand.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo what Robert Reid from FIRST Union was saying there is that those workers in the rural sector, who he represents, were negatively affected by RBNZ\u2019s single-minded focus on inflation in the period before 2018 in a way that affected not only those workers but those rural towns\u2014those regions that rely on New Zealand\u2019s competitiveness overseas. He was pointing to the need for someone with expertise of representing those people within those sectors to have a mind to those monetary policy issues, and to be able to contribute to the monetary policy committee\u2019s decisions around where we should be pitching this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMadam Chair, I only have four more seconds. I wonder if you would give me another five minutes to go through my Amendment Papers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c350fc25519b463bbcb3bb6273b87f23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c350fc25519b463bbcb3bb6273b87f23\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I want to acknowledge the Hon Grant Robertson for being one of the few members who\u2019s had the courtesy to actually refer to Part 2 in any way during this stage of the debate. And I want to answer his question about the foot and mouth clause and to confirm that section 125 of the principal Act continues to provide for an Order in Council to set a different economic objective or objectives for the Reserve Bank. It remains the Government\u2019s intention that the Act remain laser focused on inflation, and that other matters be set out in the remit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228f55da9bf6344bea999d238625bf02a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f55da9bf6344bea999d238625bf02a7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I take the next call, I\u2019m just going to refer to Speaker\u2019s Ruling 125/8. Because we are in urgency and this has not gone through a select committee, I am allowing detailed questions about the provisions of the bill, to the extent that it\u2019s relevant to the bill, and they become debating points within the whole debate on this bill. It\u2019s up to the Minister, you know, whether she addresses what is relevant or not, but I also want to just make people aware at this stage that there are a number of amendments and some of them are contrary to the objects and provisions\u2014the principles of the bill. So we just want to be careful when we are moving amendments to amendments that it might not all happen at the end of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022b267fddab3c842c4a25a0cc8b348d90c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b267fddab3c842c4a25a0cc8b348d90c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for that clarification as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EI want to refer to a specific amendment, which I believe is in the name of the Hon Deborah Russell, and that is the amendment that would require a report to be written by the Reserve Bank outlining a number of matters that they consider to be important when it comes to reporting on monetary policies. This is section 131 of the original Act. At the moment\u2014and this also applies to the point that the Minister made about the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 suggestion about reviews\u2014while the Act currently contains both provisions for reviews and provisions for reports, what we\u2019re endeavouring to do through the amendments that we have tabled is ensure that both the review and the report contain reference to issues around the labour market, unemployment, and wider economic impacts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBecause at the moment, while the Minister is technically correct that there might be a clause to review the overall Act, that clause does not necessarily cover off the issues of employment. So that\u2019s the reason for the amendments that we\u2019re making: to make clear that we want both the review and, in this case, the amendment I\u2019m talking about here to section 131 to actually have a report that does cover that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo what this proposal proposes is that we have a new subsection to 131(2) to insert that the report must consider the observed impacts of monetary policies of the bank over the review period, including the impacts on price stability, employment, and economic development; and structural economic factors that influence monetary policy decisions; and any trade-offs involved in meeting the economic objectives of the bank; and the actions required to mitigate any identified trade-offs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is the very reason for us, in Part 2, asking, having dispensed with the dual mandate in Part 1, can we please have something that allows and prescribes for the Reserve Bank some attention to matters that are beyond just price stability? Price stability is important\u2014always has been; always a core objective of the bank. But price stability and a focus on it will have impacts in other parts of the economy, and that\u2019s what this amendment does\u2014it says, \u201CWell, if you\u2019re going to do this, there\u2019ll be trade-offs and there will be other impacts and we need to understand those.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn the debate on Part 1\u2014actually, no, it wasn\u2019t; it was in the second reading debate\u2014I brought up the example of the former Reserve Bank Governor Graeme Wheeler, who did launch on a monetary policy tightening programme when unemployment was still very high\u2014it was over 5 percent. Now, he did that for his reasons and he had those reasons, but that ultimately did start to see, potentially, unemployment rise from that point. That kind of trade-off is enormously significant for people\u2019s lives, for jobs, and for wages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo, for us, proposing these changes here in Part 2 is because we are concerned that the bank will now take its eye off the ball of the consequences of its single mandate. One of the issues that we have is that monetary policy is a long game. And, actually, what we\u2019ve established through the debate thus far is in the period that there was a dual mandate; actually, the Reserve Bank wasn\u2019t compromised in its focus on inflation and that situation could go on for a very, very, very long time. But there will come a time when the focus\u2014and I\u2019m giving the example from 2013-14 with the former Reserve Bank Governor Graeme Wheeler as an example of when I had a concern about a single mandate meaning that we didn\u2019t focus on those other issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo we know the dual mandate didn\u2019t have the impact that has been suggested it might possibly or could have, but some time in the future it might. So, therefore, we are asking for these amendments that we have tabled to Part 2 to be taken up so at least the Reserve Bank will be asked regularly to make sure it\u2019s talking about the trade-offs that are inherent in monetary policy. If we don\u2019t pass these amendments, we then run the risk that monetary policy goes off in a direction that New Zealanders are not comfortable with and that will have an effect on their jobs and their employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo I ask the Minister again: if not these amendments, then what will she be doing to ensure that the Reserve Bank reports and reviews regularly the trade-offs that it\u2019s now going to have to make?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022313fb5d46feb4ae89c3f2894fc0adf98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022313fb5d46feb4ae89c3f2894fc0adf98\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The member asking those questions should know that the Reserve Bank charter can already set out reporting requirements, and it will. Also, the member should know that the remit will allow that under section 117 of the Act, the Reserve Bank, acting through the monetary policy committee (MPC), is required to formulate monetary policy in accordance with the economic objectives in the Act, which has historically allowed\u2014which will ensure that the MPC can be seeking to avoid unnecessary financial instability and instability in output in the economy. As I\u2019ve said, the member seems very interested in the remit and the charter, and I look forward to publishing them shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed6fd36bd45c462191712ad33bd2f970\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed6fd36bd45c462191712ad33bd2f970\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the opportunity to take the committee through some of my proposed amendments. I\u2019ll begin with clause 8, which is the first clause within Part 2 that I seek to amend. My proposal is to amend new section 117(1). After the words \u201Cover the medium term\u201D, I would propose to insert \u201Cand continue to take a flexible approach to monetary policy that improves welfare by ensuring that monetary policy does not exacerbate periods of economic decline\u201D, and, given what the Minister has said on this topic, I think that will be well-received in this committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ELet me then turn to the regulatory impact statement that was prepared by Treasury, because Treasury have also advised on the usefulness of the flexible monetary approach that is concerned not only with stabilising the change in prices at any given time but also stabilising people\u2019s experience of the real economy. So Treasury\u2019s advice around this issue was that there would be an alternative to the approach that the Government is taking here to elevate that through primary legislation to just propose in the monetary policy committee (MPC) remit that there should be a more hierarchical focus on inflation, but they also recommended in the third paragraph of the regulatory impact statement that \u201CThe view of Treasury is that issuing a new MPC Remit without amending the Act would be sufficient to ensure monetary policy decision makers focus primarily on achieving and maintaining price stability\u201D. So what this advice is doing is recognising that the monetary policy committee has a role in creating a more stable economy, and so therefore it would be useful for us to say this clearly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy second amendment there to clause 9 is that in clause 9, I\u2019m proposing that in the new amendment to section 118\u2014it will be a really simple amendment. It\u2019s replacing the words \u201Ceconomic objectives\u201D with \u201Cobjective economic measure\u201D, and what I\u2019m hoping to achieve with that amendment is to make sure that the monetary policy committee itself can determine what an objective economic measure of success is, given what their role in setting monetary policy in New Zealand would be. It belongs in clause 9 there because that is a clause that\u2019s subsequent to clause 4. It would take into account the Government\u2019s objectives with this bill to elevate the role of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ) to focus on inflation, but by doing this in clause 9, it would mean that the monetary policy committee had some room to interpret what a flexible approach in monetary policy in any given circumstance would be. That\u2019s important, because if I take the committee back to my contribution in the first part of this debate, where we\u2019ve been for a period\u2014which was really unusual in New Zealand\u2019s economy\u2014in the last three to six years with fluctuations at whiplash speed between the need for a focus on employment to then a focus on taking the heat out of the economy, that would provide the monetary policy committee with the tools it needed to determine what at any given time was the appropriate approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy proposal to amend clause 10 would see in the new amendment to section 123 the replacing of the words \u201Ceconomic objective\u201D with the words \u201Can economic objective suitable for the prevailing economic conditions of the time\u201D. What\u2019s different about this amendment to my proposal to amend clause 9 is that this isn\u2019t a section which directs the monetary policy committee to use its powers in a way which it sees fit, so in adding this, the House would be saying in primary legislation that the prevailing economic conditions of the time are something that\u2019s useful for the monetary policy committee to consider. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EJust building on the contribution of the Hon Grant Robertson, when he pointed to the example of the RBNZ chair Graeme Wheeler making those decisions to tighten monetary policy in such a way that it would have arguably exacerbated unemployment when it was already high, this would focus the monetary policy committee\u2019s attention to when unemployment is high. When there are tens of thousands of New Zealanders who will be affected by even a one basis point change in the official cash rate\u2014because they will bear the costs of inflation because there will be higher unemployment in the economy\u2014then they should take that into account specifically, and it would be elevated to primary legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy amendment to clause 11 is a little bit different from that. It would replace new section 125(2) with the words: \u201CThe economic objective or objectives may be: (a) the objectives specified by the Government, taking into account the Government\u2019s role in setting monetary policy;\u201D, and then a new paragraph (b), which is different from the previous Government\u2019s approach, but it would be in line with the new Government\u2019s approach, which would subordinate the Government\u2019s priority for supporting maximum sustainable employment to that new paragraph (a). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo what this would do, essentially, is recognise that this Government\u2019s priority, though this side of the House disagrees with it, is a single-minded focus on inflation, regardless of the effect on the employment of those New Zealanders who will bear it otherwise\u2014accepting that that is this Government\u2019s approach, which is wrong-headed, then there would be a subordinate concern for the monetary policy committee to take into account of supporting maximum sustainable employment in addition to or instead of that objective. So where there were prevailing economic conditions that require the RBNZ to take an approach to unemployment which did not see more New Zealanders out of work or those New Zealanders who lost their work not able to find it again, they would take that into account. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EClause 12 is also a bit different from that, and I\u2019d like to hear the Minister\u2019s willingness to take this on, because it is a more simple change. It\u2019s not as substantive. It would be a new amendment to section 136(1) to replace the words \u201Ceconomic objectives\u201D with \u201Ceconomic objective which stabilises the real economy, for example, in helping reduce fluctuations in unemployment\u201D, so this one points back to the actual Act as amended. This would be in a subsequent amendment to it. It\u2019s still subordinate to that clause 4, but it would bring in this need for the RBNZ monetary policy committee to have in their minds the fluctuations of unemployment at any given time within the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s useful when paired alongside the amendment of the Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2014sorry, I\u2019m not considering an amendment to that amendment; I would consider another amendment that would be a substantive amendment, which would be in order. It is that if we had further representation on the monetary policy committee of someone with expertise in the experience of working people within the economy, then this amendment to clause 12 would guide that person within the monetary policy committee\u2019s ability to make decisions which stabilised the fluctuations of unemployment in the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ETo give you an example of what that would mean, in Manurewa, after the global financial crisis, people who looked like me\u2014M\u0101ori women who are between the ages of 20 and 30\u2014experienced unemployment that was up to 15 and 16 percent. The unemployment of men who are P\u0101keh\u0101 in any given city, but particularly in somewhere like South Auckland, was only up around 3.5 percent. When we talk about unemployment increasing, it\u2019s not felt evenly. That is an effect that is borne primarily by those people who are already on the margins of employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhen you have a Government working in tandem with an RBNZ to bring unemployment to a low rate, you see people who have never had the opportunity to work because they would have otherwise been locked out of the employment market. Perhaps they didn\u2019t have the requisite skills, as our economics textbooks would teach us, but perhaps for some other reason they were locked out of employment. Then those people are able to seek work, and I think in this House, but especially between the two parties who are best represented in this House now, we agree that working is important to people\u2019s lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIf you are able to seek employment, if you are able to contribute to a job where you find respect from not only your colleagues but your peers and your family, you live a better life, and so by making this amendment to clause 12, we would give the RBNZ the tools that it needs to be able to constantly prioritise making sure that there was not a trade-off between young M\u0101ori women\u2019s employment prospects\u2014because that was the trade-off after the global financial crisis; those were the people who bore the cost of high inflation, and the policy of the governor of the time to tighten monetary policy at a time that unemployment was high\u2014and doing two things at once, by making sure that those women in South Auckland who look and sound like me can continue to be able to work in the jobs that they have now, that if they lose their job, they will be able to get a new one, and that their wages will continue to go up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the other thing that we haven\u2019t really dwelt on in this debate. It\u2019s that when the RBNZ pursues a single-minded policy of reducing inflation at the cost of working people, wages are also driven down. We end up with an economy in New Zealand where we\u2019re in a constant race to the bottom, where people\u2019s wages do not progress and, therefore, their purchasing power goes down. So even though inflation might be under control, the purchasing power of working people continues to decline under that sort of policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EClause 13 is also an important one, and I hope I can have more time to discuss that. It\u2019s a change to section 138(1), which would replace\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00224e95c176e0b14befa47358e02f266657\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e95c176e0b14befa47358e02f266657\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u002224cef0c5171c4e308f3965367e3066b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002224cef0c5171c4e308f3965367e3066b4\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll pick up, actually, where I think the member from Manurewa was continuing, and it was really around the disproportionate impact of the economic tightening and austerity on our lower socio-economic areas and in particular on M\u0101ori, Pacific, women, and those as well who are disabled and generally are younger, because I\u2019m pretty sure that the stats in parts of Porirua were very much the same as the stats in Manurewa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThat is why I think we need to again just remind the committee of the history in relation to why we moved from one mandate to a dual mandate. A number of members in the House have brought up the history around the Governor, Graeme Wheeler, in 2014 when again he started to hike the official cash rate (OCR), even though inflation was only running at 1.5 percent; it basically increased the unemployment rate. And again, even though inflation\u2019s at 1.5 percent and the unemployment rate was at 5.6, you saw the disproportionate impacts again on lower socio-economic areas on those particular groups like M\u0101ori, Pacific, and disabled people, who were heavily impacted. That\u2019s why I wanted to be able to take a call and then also to ask the Minister some procedural questions in relation to this, but also a call to support a couple of the amendments that have been proposed by members on this side of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EIf I turn to the amendment by Arena Williams in relation to new section 117(1), inserted by clause 8, after the words\u2014she is suggesting that the House look at \u201Ccontinue to take a flexible approach to monetary policy that improves welfare by ensuring that monetary policy does not exacerbate periods of economic decline.\u201D And also, specifically to clause 12, an amendment that the member is proposing to replace \u201Ceconomic objective\u201D with \u201Ceconomic objective which stabilises the real economy, for example, in helping to reduce fluctuations in unemployment.\u201D Again, I take the committee back to 2014 when that Reserve Bank Governor, under the one mandate, decided to still increase the OCR despite the high record numbers of unemployment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI want to also rise to speak in support of another amendment that has been brought forward by the member the Hon Dr Megan Woods. I\u2019m just trying to find that amendment, but nevertheless I always support what the honourable member Megan Woods proposes in amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EBut probably a tip that I want to\u2014and, again, I recognise our Treasury officials who wrote a regulatory impact statement even though they didn\u2019t need to write one. To the new members of Opposition who are here in the Chamber, probably the reason why\u2014you know, you could speculate as to why the Prime Minister and members of Cabinet didn\u2019t want to have a regulatory impact statement. But if you actually have a look at the analysis in the regulatory impact statement, the advice from Treasury was despite what the Government wants to do through legislation, which they clearly made through their coalition agreement, they still recommended that the Government just change the remit, not the legislation, which is why we have got back here into the House, where we\u2019re having to suggest a number of amendments to the second part of this bill because our concern on this side of the House is we\u2019re going to fall back into that 2014 period, where, again, the disproportional impacts of increasing the OCR will impact on those more vulnerable members of our community in Porirua and in Manurewa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo to the members, I looked again at the regulatory impact statement\u2014this objective advice that\u2019s been provided by Treasury. And again, just saying\u2014I think it\u2019s paragraph 16; it says \u201Cthe Treasury\u2019s recommendation is to issue a new monetary policy committee remit only. In making this recommendation the Treasury has weighed more heavily the need to achieve the Government\u2019s policy intention to restore focus on price stability\u201D, which the Minister confirmed in a previous contribution, \u201Cand the importance of an enduring and consistent legislative regime.\u201D I think that second part of that first sentence in paragraph 16 of the regulatory impact statement is incredibly important, because what you don\u2019t want to do is to have Governments come in and have such huge swings and changes in such important policy. Because what that indicates to the market\u2014and we\u2019ve already seen, actually, a number of examples worldwide of what their views are on this Government. What that indicates to our international partners is that we\u2019re going to be swinging heavily\u2014so what that indicates is that Treasury is saying to the Government: keep the legislation as it is, but you have these tools in the monetary policy remit to change it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EHowever, this Government has chosen to change the legislation, the primary legislation, and you can acknowledge that, yes, it was part of the part of their coalition agreement. However, the uncertainty that they could provide to the markets is something that I don\u2019t think this committee has paid enough attention to. But that\u2019s why we have regulatory impact assessments. It\u2019s to be able to make sure that we can debate it in the committee. Because unfortunately we don\u2019t have a select committee process as part of this, which is why you\u2019ll see a number of members on this side of the Chamber trying to understand the policy intent. And the policy intent that I heard from the Minister was around\u2014was it \u201Claser sharp focus\u201D on inflation, price stability? But again, your own officials are saying, \u201CDon\u2019t do it through the primary legislation; use the remit.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo as you keep going through the regulatory impact statement, they also say that \u201CThe Treasury puts significant weight on the value of a stable and enduring legislative regime for the Reserve Bank, which supports public and market confidence in the independence of the institution\u201D\u2014the independence of the institution. And, unfortunately, what we have here is a bill which, because it removes that dual mandate, we on this side of the Chamber are having to put amendment after amendment after amendment after amendment and amendments to amendments just in case one amendment fails or if one amendment passes. That\u2019s what happens when you don\u2019t have the ability to take it through a select committee to be able to have those submissions from the public, from, actually, a number of experts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI was on the Finance and Expenditure Committee with the Minister\u2014actually, I haven\u2019t actually said congratulations to the Minister for your new role. We had time and time again the Reserve Bank Governor come to us, and the Minister was very forthright in her questioning of the Governor at the time, particularly around these mandates. For me to be able to not have that ability to do that scrutiny through a bill and instead to be passing it through urgency means I\u2019m on my feet having to ask questions and having to support amendments in relation to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo my question really for the Minister\u2014and I want to absolutely acknowledge that these amendments have just been tabled, but, again, we\u2019re in a position where we don\u2019t have the ability to be able to scrutinise it further. My question is: given that the Treasury advice was around changing the remit rather than the legislation, and now we\u2019re in a position where members now are having to do amendments to the bill through the different clauses, what are the other ways in which the Minister, other than the remit, because I know the Minister has said that the remit will come after this legislation\u2014but, actually, I want the Minister to provide some assurances now to the New Zealand public around how will the Minister continue to take that flexible approach if we go back to 2014, where Governor Graeme Wheeler had one mandate, there wasn\u2019t the flexibility. How do we have that flexibility? How is that flexibility in relation to this monetary policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EBecause, again, that\u2019s why I stand in support of Part 2, clause 8 amendments put toward by the member from Manurewa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022869e4753cb6449699677740549544af6\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re good ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241feed14b5ba4010bd7d0eef67cb1b2b\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Very good ones. And, again, as well, her amendments to clause 12. Because if you don\u2019t have the flexibility, because you\u2019re going back to the one mandate\u2014and, yes, the remits do follow. There are mechanisms within the Reserve Bank Act to ensure that there are reviews. I understand there was meant to be one for five years as well, for the remit review, but I think there was one just done in 2023 that started in 2021. What is the flexibility, if you look back to 2014 when you had a Reserve Bank Governor who only had one mandate? What assurances can this Minister provide that there will be some flexibility and that, if not now but in the future, we won\u2019t get to the position where a Reserve Bank Governor will keep increasing interest rates increase, keep increasing the OCR, even though it\u2019s just outside the 1 to 3 percent? It was 3.5 under the Reserve Bank Governor Graeme Wheeler, but yet unemployment was rising and rising above 5 percent. Those are the types of assurance, in the absence of a select committee, that I would like to seek from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002252240188073a4724aac2ba3bd0293735\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252240188073a4724aac2ba3bd0293735\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Can I, first, reassure the member that there will continue to be opportunities for her to question the Reserve Bank Governor through the Finance and Expenditure Committee process, which is an incredibly important part of our monetary policy framework and the accountability of the Reserve Bank under the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ELook, members have tabled a number of amendments and are having an ongoing, rather circular discussion about all of the things that the Reserve Bank will consider. Let me say, again: the purpose of this Act is to give crystal clarity of the objective of the monetary policy committee (MPC), which is to ensure price stability. None of that precludes the matters that are set out in section 123 and section 125 whereby the remit may specify the matters the monetary policy committee has regard to in pursuing that one clear objective. So there are other matters that they can have regard to, but they must pursue the one clear objective. I will be publishing the remit upon passage of this Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also note that section 119 is very specific that the MPC must have regard to the importance of stability in the financial system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002217e1b27100f042dd82906b312e677ea1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217e1b27100f042dd82906b312e677ea1\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to take up the debate about the concern that we haven\u2019t really fleshed out the ideas behind the decisions that have been made, and that there is a rejection\u2014as I understand it\u2014of the amendments which try to do that and try to lock in some of the value systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI recall the Minister talking about \u201Corthodoxy\u201D, and I wanted to ask some questions around that; what she meant by \u201Corthodoxy\u201D. Because orthodoxy can mean many things. My understanding is that economic policy is a social science in some ways: it\u2019s a strong belief system that sits behind economic views and so there is more than one economic pathway that is rightly called part of the science of an economist. One of those would reject the idea that employment is important at all, and it would go with austerity, for example. And I can see the tail of Graeme Wheeler fitting into that, where the tool was used crudely and caused a lot of harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAnd I also am reading at the moment Mariana Mazzucato\u2019s works, and I\u2019ve just read The Value of Everything. And it\u2019s incredibly powerful because it\u2019s important to consider new ways of thinking in economics. If this was being discussed in select committee, those economists and those economic views would probably have come forward and they would have been part of this debate\u2014and we would have talked about the pros and cons of each. But I\u2019m concerned that that debate hasn\u2019t been had, and in fact, words like \u201Corthodoxy\u201D tend to cover words like \u201Causterity\u201D, which actually do terrible harm in our society and, in fact, increase the gap between rich and poor and devastate groups of our society which are already alienated; already under pressure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I want to know, really, what the Minister thinks\u2014and I\u2019d like to say, I\u2019ve been remiss in not congratulating the Minister publicly on her position either, and I congratulate you for it. But it\u2019s a great responsibility, the role of Minister of Finance, and it\u2019s really important that we know what the Minister thinks when she says something like \u201CWe are just adopting orthodoxy.\u201D What does she mean by that\u2014and is that inconsistent with new economic thinking which is, after all, based on the lessons that we have learnt in economics since the 1980s? These are thoughts that are not right-wing or left-wing in particular\u2014they\u2019re based on the experience that we\u2019ve had and the greater economic divide, which is of concern to us all, I think. It\u2019s based on the commitment to representing those hard-working people we\u2019ve all said we care about so much; so there\u2019s a very, very important link between work and economic wellbeing. I believe very strongly in that link, and I would love for the Minister to talk about what she means when she talks about orthodoxy\u2014but also why she seems to be rejecting these very important amendments which seek to commit to something which I think is a value we should universally hold: the balance of making sure that when we make these big monetary moves in the Reserve Bank, we\u2019re not forgetting the harm that they can cause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI also was interested in a comment that the Minister made about what the role of monetary policy was versus the role of fiscal policy. I reject what she\u2019s suggesting there: that monetary policy somehow is divorced from affecting the plight of working people. In fact, the whole point of it is that it is for making sure that there is a wellbeing of working people\u2014and employment is a large part of that, so it must clearly be an important factor, and so I want to know where it fits. Fiscal policy certainly has been very effective as a contributor, but monetary policy cannot be rejected as a major contributor. So I would ask the Minister to answer that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u002263569fc790ff45a48c82126f33891dd2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263569fc790ff45a48c82126f33891dd2\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I want to speak to two amendments in the names of my colleagues that are on the Table to Part 2. The first of those is Deborah Russell\u2019s amendment for a new clause 10. This is amending section 119 of the principal Act, and it specifically focuses on what the monetary policy committee must have regard to in formulating monetary policy. It adds, after section 119(1)(a) of the current Act, a new section 119(1)(b) to say \u201Cthe importance of protecting and promoting strong and stable employment in the New Zealand economy\u201D. Now, the phrase \u201Cstrong and stable\u201D is one that colleagues opposite might quite like. You know, it\u2019s something that they\u2019re aspiring towards in other matters. But here it is about strong and stable employment in the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EReally, this is simply an example of the Opposition attempting to fulfil the very thing that the Minister has said she supports. That is the idea that there should be flexibility in what the Reserve Bank does when it\u2019s considering the setting of monetary policy. But we are adding to that some specificity about the kinds of things they can consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis really comes to the crux of the entire debate that we have been having\u2014or the argument that we\u2019ve been given by the Government, anyway\u2014which is that they were told by the Reserve Bank Governor in a letter and the chair of the Reserve Bank board that the Reserve Bank favoured prioritisation of inflation targeting over the maximum sustainable employment goal. Fine. Not what this side of the Chamber happens to believe, but it is what the Reserve Bank Governor and the board chair wrote to the Minister, and indeed the Minister appeared to tell us she supported that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis amendment in Deborah Russell\u2019s name actually allows what the Minister seems to be saying to now be put into the law, and that is that we now have that consideration of strong and stable employment when the Reserve Bank is formulating its monetary policy and pursuing its economic objectives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had, a number of times, the Minister tell us that clarity is what matters. We need certainty and clarity. Well, that\u2019s what this amendment does. It provides clarity to the bank and indeed financial markets and indeed the wider public that this is what should be considered when monetary policy decisions are being formulated. So I think it is an amendment well worth the committee\u2019s consideration to support. It actually backstops during the debate what we have heard from the Minister that she believes should be happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe second amendment that I want to draw the committee\u2019s attention to is the amendment to clause 10 in the name of the Hon Megan Woods, which is to amend clause 10 to, after section 123(2)(b), insert a new (c) that says \u201Can additional economic objective\u201D. Again, this is about backing up what we\u2019ve heard from the Minister she believes should happen, which is that there should be flexibility in the way that the Government responds to unexpected circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis is really quite critical, because having now reduced the Reserve Bank\u2019s objectives down to one objective, I think there is a serious issue now with the Act, which is that the objectives no longer fulfil the purposes of the Act. So the purposes were changed in 2019, and we wanted to make sure that the wellbeing and the overall economic position of New Zealanders was the purpose of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. We\u2019re now down to just one objective to fulfil quite a complex purpose there. So this amendment by the Hon Megan Woods to clause 10 actually specifically says you can have an additional economic objective. That at least in some ways continues to safeguard the connection between the objectives of the Act and the purpose of the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo these are two serious amendments proposed by my colleagues that I believe should be considered strongly by the Minister. Again, I repeat: if not, what else? We haven\u2019t had an answer to that question, so therefore it still lies on the Table as a live consideration. But I believe the two amendments that have been put forward by my colleagues will at least mean that the flexibility is there alongside some clarity about what New Zealanders should expect the Reserve Bank to be considering when it sets monetary policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d506d29d087f4cf6895f5ab6b3046e5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d506d29d087f4cf6895f5ab6b3046e5a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E As I have now repeatedly said, what this bill does is it makes clear the key operational objective we wish the Reserve Bank monetary policy committee to pursue. We believe that clarity has a number of benefits, which I have canvassed extensively. We believe that that is consistent with the purpose of the Act, in that, without price stability, all of the other good things that the Opposition seeks cannot be achieved. Price stability is the foundation on which employment and good economic conditions sits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EFinally, all of the discussion about all of the things that could be added to the Act to require the Minister to do, actually there is nothing to preclude these matters from being in the remit as things that the monetary policy committee should have regard to in pursuing the clarity of objective that the Act provides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u002290c02af53d1f41b48d00d23260f7bcdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290c02af53d1f41b48d00d23260f7bcdc\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2e367c5e82e4f1ab3418fbf9a3c7075\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2e367c5e82e4f1ab3418fbf9a3c7075\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It is a pleasure to take another call on this bill. There\u2019s still an outstanding question. I thank the Minister in the chair, Nicola Willis, for answering some questions and giving some clarity. But one of the things that I still am not clear on, from the answers that the Minister has given\u2014and I\u2019d welcome her, given that we\u2019re not having a select committee process for this bill, to provide this committee of the whole House with some clarity on the need to have changed reporting requirements on the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EPart 1 of the bill is narrowing it down to that single purpose, so what advice did she receive around how it is that we need to change the reporting requirements to ensure that we\u2019re not having adverse outcomes on employment, given that the dual mandate is being received? I welcome the Minister informing the committee of what advice she received and, if she\u2019s not going to support that amendment, then what provisions and mechanisms is she going to put in place to ensure that we do have active monitoring? It\u2019s not enough to say that the principal Act has a review requirement and leave it at that, because the Minister is changing the Act. So what is she going to do to change the reporting requirements and what are we going to see there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I\u2019d just like to ask the Minister some questions around is my further amendment, the amendment to clause 10, which my colleague the Hon Grant Robertson just spoke about, after section 123(2)(b), to insert new paragraph (c), providing for an additional economic objective. The Hon Grant Robertson highlighted that, actually, in making these changes to the legislation, we might be doing something quite serious in terms of reducing the scope of the banks down to such a narrow purpose\u2014so what do we do in those exceptional circumstances? I think previous colleagues have talked about the foot and mouth provisions\u2014what mechanisms do we have where there are extraordinary circumstances where the scope and mandate of the bank needs to be changed within the legislation? I\u2019m anticipating that the Minister may say that she\u2019ll put it in the remit, but what about the legislation? What are the legislative provisions in this Act that could be put in place to ensure that we do have those protections and that we do have that other word the Minister likes\u2014that sufficient flexibility\u2014to ensure that we do have those provisions there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EGiven that we\u2019re not going through a select committee process and we don\u2019t get to hear from officials, what is the advice that she received on this? What are the options that were put forward? I\u2019d like to understand some of her reasoning for what options she either accepted or discounted and what the pros and cons of those various options were. When we\u2019re putting a bill through this mechanism under urgency, it is the role of the House to understand the reasoning behind a Minister\u2019s decision-making and to have some transparency about some of the options and advice that were offered to that Minister, and if the committee can go through and debate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I would very much like to know whether or not she will support my amendments to add that amendment to clause 10, to add an additional economic objective; if not, why not, and what is the advice that sits behind her decision and the options that sit behind her decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022186ca70600a2458bb86e227c57f09a26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022186ca70600a2458bb86e227c57f09a26\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E It would not be appropriate to add a new economic objective in the remit. This is not secondary legislation. Legislation is the proper place to set out the objectives, which this bill does. There was one objective: price stability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad87f45d02a94dfbbd1c9590924ea946\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad87f45d02a94dfbbd1c9590924ea946\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Katie Nimon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248e79e07b5cf4f40bf23a0e47bb86a62\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: Catherine Wedd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcfc67b4816146fb96b15ebb2d6b93e1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, have I got the wrong one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239ba0e0614af46ceb3e31f0c3758d814\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: Yes! Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a80152b416e4352a73f11e0d1c9dca8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Could you just identify\u2014I will struggle, like the Speaker himself, at this stage. Catherine Wedd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u002229b73b86d0684cdf847bc0afe1b52248\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229b73b86d0684cdf847bc0afe1b52248\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00220f0a15cc916d499f95921fe3069cd3bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f0a15cc916d499f95921fe3069cd3bf\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chair. Thank you, Mr Chair. We\u2019ve come to some trouble, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll take you to Standing Order 137(1), which is the closure motion clause. I\u2019ll just read it for your benefit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227ef0517a16eb47ff8b051c4dd9e0a55c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ef0517a16eb47ff8b051c4dd9e0a55c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I think you\u2019ve been very quick off the mark, Ms Williams. Just please allow the Chair to ensure\u2014at this stage, look, the debate has been going for an hour and a half on this part. I will remind those seeking closure motions that the wording must be correct, so I\u2019ll invite them to ensure that the correct wording is used. So, to that extent, was that a call? Arena Williams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5a825deb1894152864a7eb58cb0acbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5a825deb1894152864a7eb58cb0acbf\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you, Mr Chair, for the call. I do appreciate the opportunity to speak to the trouble that the committee finds itself in now. We\u2019ve usefully had from the Minister of Finance a contribution around the amendments that this side of the Chamber has put up to Part 2, which seek to clarify the role of the monetary policy committee in its view towards the effect of unemployment. However, the Minister has indicated that she will not be accepting those amendments, and I think that\u2019s a problem, because we still have a purpose clause which was introduced in the 2019 amendment to the principal Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo if you\u2019ll allow me to take the committee through why that\u2019s a problem that we now find ourselves in, should the Minister not accept the clarifying amendments that have been put up by myself and my colleagues, the problem with that is that the purpose of the 2019 amendment, which still remains in the primary Act, and the purpose of the original 1989 Act are at odds. So, now, if the amendments that are being proposed by the Minister in this bill that we\u2019re debating today go ahead, we\u2019re still left with the purpose clause, which is in the 2019 amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIf you\u2019ll allow me to take my colleagues through the context of this, which is in the explanatory note of the amendment that was put forward in 2019\u2014if you\u2019ll bear with me, that explanatory note clarifies that the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Monetary Policy) Amendment Bill had two main objectives, and those were amending the objectives of the monetary policy committee to require consideration of maximum sustainable employment alongside price stability in monetary policy decision-making and institute a monetary policy committee to make decisions on monetary policy. We\u2019ve got these two objectives of the 2019 bill. One is still something which the Minister herself seems to be supportive of; one is not. However, that went alongside a new purpose clause in the Act that is not being amended, and that\u2019s why we have a problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI would ask the Minister: is she proposing to amend the purpose clause today? I would love to hear her amendment. Perhaps her amendment will say, \u201CI\u2019m the inflation-fighting Minister; let unemployment rip.\u201D, or perhaps it will say, \u201CUnemployment is not a concern of the Reserve Bank.\u201D Now, we need to have that explained, because there is some confusion here, and though the Minister has said that this is a circular discussion, the committee now finds itself in a bit of confusion because of the Minister\u2019s answers on this topic. At one stage, the committee is asking the monetary policy committee to have in its mind the impact of its decision making on working people, on unemployment, and on the stability of the real economy and on fluctuations within it, and people\u2019s experience of the economy, but at the same time, it\u2019s talking out the other side of its mouth and saying that there will only be one focus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from the Minister that this is clarifying that, so what we really need here is a proposal from the Minister to change the purpose clause. If she wants clarity in this bill, she must amend it now. There is only one opportunity to get this legislation right, because we are not going to select committee on this bill, and so I want to hear the Minister\u2019s proposal to amend the purpose clause. I would like her officials to consider what their amendment will be, because it does not make sense, and this House will be passing legislation which says one thing and does another. This Minister is prioritising inflation over the concerns of working people. She needs to be clear with New Zealanders that she does not care if they can get a job, she does not care that if they lose their job they will not be able to get another one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhen the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ) is single-mindedly focused on inflation, like Graeme Wheeler was in the tale of the global financial crisis, which this Government presided over, we saw people in New Zealand losing their job and not be able to get another job. These were working people who had had experience in jobs. They had the skills that they needed to get employment in our rural sectors, in our towns, in our manufacturing sectors. The only reason why they could not get a job is because unemployment was at a level which was unsustainable in our economy. But the RBNZ at that time was not focused on unemployment. They did not see it as their role to make sure that people\u2019s experience of the economy was stabilised in some way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe need to have it clarified in this bill how the RBNZ is going to focus on those things, and if we don\u2019t, if our clauses that we have put up as Amendment Papers on this side of the Chamber are not accepted, then the Minister will have to explain that to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022195b21c899514535903a6ebe2dcb2812\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022195b21c899514535903a6ebe2dcb2812\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Tim Costa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297546b0cfbc2495f8638e753648bd6b6\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Costley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c21b1bd4889f44e38987983a6c8d6617\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Costley\u2014that\u2019s not bad; I got the Christian name right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u0022305c4fedb1c0439eaa88ad57a35ddb45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022305c4fedb1c0439eaa88ad57a35ddb45\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223ab996594f2a45a5a775367261ce4692\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on the question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002223f675361ac347c18bf5ebd191d7e0dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223f675361ac347c18bf5ebd191d7e0dd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendments to Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022851ee8bca0904330bedcc6ce553e7b33\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229cd255750c1545a78347d35811e4abf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cd255750c1545a78347d35811e4abf3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s tabled amendment to Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002228b56594a92e4bd49e6373076421f3a6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002249d6ec937d9948998ce03e33382d3bc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249d6ec937d9948998ce03e33382d3bc8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to Part 2 amending clause 6 is out of order as being out of scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Dr Megan Woods\u2019 tabled amendment to Part 2 amending clause 10 is out of order as being contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Dr Deborah Russell\u2019s tabled amendment to Part 2 inserting new clause 10 is out of order as being contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Dr Deborah Russell\u2019s tabled amendment to Part 2 inserting new clause 12 is out of order as being outside the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002214d5d2f7020d4aa89ecad6ccd46ca26c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bc78e3254544a93aeb364839de19a55\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b20befbdb7f049709d06ed2f7f6bba20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b20befbdb7f049709d06ed2f7f6bba20\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to our final debate. This is the debate on clauses 1 to 3: \u201CTitle\u201D, \u201CCommencement\u201D, and \u201CPrincipal Act\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226624b68fe70d449e864c89e3f275f323\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226624b68fe70d449e864c89e3f275f323\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. I am going to speak to a couple of amendments that I have on the commencement clause, and this comes to a very important point that has been underlying the entire debate in the committee of the whole House stage, and that is the question of whether there is any evidence to support the contention of the Minister that underpins the entire bill: that somehow or other the Reserve Bank of New Zealand having a dual mandate meant that it took its eye off the ball of inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, to recap matters that the Minister didn\u2019t respond to, over the course of this debate we have heard that there was the potential or the possibility of a conflict between the two objectives. However, we were not presented with any evidence that that was true. In fact, the only evidence we have is to the contrary, which is the statements of the Reserve Bank Governor that, in fact, they did focus on inflation during that period and were not impacted. Therefore, that is why I am proposing to amend the commencement date, for the Act to come into force upon the conclusion of an independent expert review on the impacts of the Reserve Bank\u2019s maximum sustainable objective on inflation, employment, and growth outcomes in New Zealand, and the establishment of evidence that the maximum sustainable employment objective has had undesirable consequences for the New Zealand economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThis Act should not come into force until such time as we have evidence that it is actually needed. So we\u2019ve reached this point in the debate\u2014we\u2019ve been through Part 1; we\u2019ve been through Part 2. We have not been able to convince the Government, in those two parts, that they should take on board amendments that acknowledge the question that was being raised in this amendment, so now we come to the commencement clause as the only opportunity left for us to say, \u201CLet\u2019s not go down a path we don\u2019t need to and that is not good for the New Zealand economy if we don\u2019t have to. Let\u2019s actually have independent experts come in and review it.\u201D That\u2019s actually a very important notion because we never got to hear from independent experts during the process of this piece of legislation. That stands, I might say, in stark contrast to when the dual mandate provision was put in, when we did an independent expert review, with public consultation, and then a piece of legislation that went to select committee and was open for further public submissions. We haven\u2019t had any of that, and that\u2019s why I believe the commencement clause\u2014clause 2\u2014needs to change so that the Act will come into force only upon that particular day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo I would like to hear from the member in charge of the bill whether or not she believes that this is something that would be sensible. I have for her an alternative, which is a further amendment to clause 2, which would say that it comes into force, rather than on the day after Royal assent, actually on 1 December 2026, provided evidence is found that the maximum sustainable employment objective has had undesirable consequences for the New Zealand economy. Now, I offer up this alternative for a commencement date in the interests of providing clarity and certainty, which appear to be two concepts close to the heart of the Minister. I know that we were criticised in an earlier part of the bill for providing options\u2014well, in this case, we\u2019re providing options, and that is either \u201C1\u00A0December\u00A02026\u201D or \u201Cat the conclusion of an independent expert review\u201D. I\u2019m not sure that the Government is that keen on the views of experts, but this is an opportunity for them to take it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIn all seriousness, when we are passing legislation in this House, we should have evidence presented to us. This is a Government that has told us they believe in evidence-based policy. Well, here\u2019s the chance to make that real. Support these amendments in my name so that actually we hear from the experts before we let this bill come into force; otherwise, it really does show what has been suggested earlier in this debate: that this is all symbolism; it\u2019s not substance; it actually isn\u2019t going to do the things that the Government has said it\u2019s going to do; and they\u2019re merely filling up the fact that they don\u2019t have any actual positive legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022801c2b3808b74b3eb1008f87b091ec24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022801c2b3808b74b3eb1008f87b091ec24\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E To save members their time, we will not be changing the commencement date. This is a Government that is getting on with it. After six years of dithering, delay, working groups, task forces, hot air, talk, good intentions, and no delivery, New Zealanders have elected a Government with a mandate to get the cost of living under control, to put price stability back as the core objective for the Reserve Bank. This bill does it, and we\u2019re getting on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022a73210a121584d99850ffee555b11c2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a73210a121584d99850ffee555b11c2d\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m disappointed to hear from the Minister that she won\u2019t be considering the amendments in the name of Grant Robertson to the commencement date. However, I have proposed in my name an amendment to the commencement date for a completely different reason, and I hope she\u2019ll consider it. Sorry, it\u2019s not in my name; it\u2019s in the name of the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, and his thinking there, with the suggestion that 18 months should be the appropriate time for this, is that there is a lag between the decisions of the monetary policy committee (MPC) and the effect of those on the real economy. I know the Minister is very serious about the effect of monetary policy on our real economy. So that would allow time for the decisions that the monetary policy has made in the last year to be felt within the economy and to test whether there is in fact a need for a further focus on fighting inflation, as the Minister has contended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe heard some contributions from the ACT members last night, and I see he\u2019s here. He referred to the work of Milton Friedman. Milton Friedman also suggested that the effect of monetary policy decisions from a central reserve bank might take anywhere from four to 29 months to take into account, so I would also gladly hear from the Minister if she would consider a commencement date of 29 months for this bill, so that we can be sure that we are making policy with an evidence basis, testing those decisions as a reserve bank, and testing their effect on the real economy and on the fluctuations of unemployment particularly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to speak, because I really fear that I\u2019m not going to get another call in this debate, but I would like one, on my amendments in my name. It\u2019s clause 1 and clause 4. I\u2019ll just speak to the one amending the name of the Act, and that\u2019s clause 1. I propose to replace the \u201CReserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Act\u201D\u2014that\u2019s on page 2\u2014with the words \u201CThe Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Elevation of the MPC Remit to Primary Legislation) Amendment Act\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ENow, we usefully had the Minister make a contribution prompted by one of her advisers on the ability of primary legislation and secondary legislation to promote the Government\u2019s intention to set economic policy. That\u2019s something we all agree is the role of Government, to direct the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ) in some way to take a position on what it should be focusing on at any given time. That is not something I\u2019m contending with. What I am interested in, in changing the name of this Act, is to be really clear about what it is doing, because we\u2019ve heard in the regulatory impact statement that it was Treasury\u2019s advice that the MPC remit may be issued by the Minister of Finance already within the powers of the existing Act, and that would be the preferred method of making the sort of change that the Minister has been speaking about doing today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhat they\u2019ve said in the regulatory impact statement is that the view of Treasury is that ensuring a new MPC remit without amending the Act would be sufficient to ensure monetary policy decision makers focus primarily on achieving and maintaining price stability\u2014i.e., by setting out a hierarchy for dual economic objectives. None the less, they say, they\u2019re amending the Act to signal a greater focus on price stability. But what this would do is allow a very clear signal, as Treasury has proposed, that the Monetary Policy Statement, which would usually be used by the Minister of Finance to direct the RBNZ to focus on one of the economic objectives which is in the previous Act, should be elevated to this stage. I should be really clear for anyone who is observing the passage of this Act that this was about elevating what the Minister wants right now to be the focus. So that Monetary Policy Statement was not the primary mechanism\u2014because that is, in effect, what it is doing\u2014because the Minister could use the Monetary Policy Statement, which is a tool within the legislation provided for already. Instead, she is choosing to amend the primary legislation and to use the House\u2019s time on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo we should be really clear that this House today will pass something that could have been done by the Minister using a regulatory tool that has been available to finance Ministers since the beginning of this regime in 1989, but, instead, she is using the tool of using the House\u2019s entire time in urgency, without a select committee process, to do so. That is a use of executive power which is unusual in our constitutional framework between the RBNZ and the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s why we should be really clear in this House that the Act says what it does on the tin\u2014that this is a new tool that we are making out here, that we are setting a new precedent where finance Ministers will come to the House and order the RBNZ around with primary legislation, despite the Opposition\u2019s calls for a select committee process, despite the Opposition\u2019s calls for pause within the committee stage to debate those clauses which are important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EAnd I come back to clause 4, which was not fully debated in this Chamber, which makes those objective changes that were not fully debated. [Bell rung] Mr Chair? Thank you. I seek further time to be able to elucidate for the House why that change to clause 4 actually needs to be really made clear that this name change, which I am talking about now, is simply what it\u2019s doing. I\u2019m sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022165c9c4d043444beb4b15ce00c3e655a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Clause 4 you\u2019re talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beb559ec0c564eeea1ac37000dc3bbe7\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m talking about why clause 4 should have been amended, even though it wasn\u2019t. We\u2019re now in the situation where the name of the bill doesn\u2019t do what it says it will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220248907f4abc4d3a9704e2f9cf5d5b01\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, ensure that when you\u2019re straying off the parts of the bill we\u2019re discussing that you actually do relate them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f8868bc167b47a68e23c421afa072d7\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Thanks, Mr Chair; I\u2019m just learning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt brings us back to the name of the bill here because if the Minister\u2019s intention is not to use the tools that were provided for in the previous regime but to come to the House and set everything out in primary legislation, then we get into the trouble of not being able to allow experts who have been appointed to the monetary policy committee or experts within the broader range of economic commentators and people with an interest in the way that the fluctuations of the real economy affect New Zealanders being able to contribute at all. So that\u2019s why it would be useful to change the name of this amendment to make it really clear that finance Ministers of all colours over time may come to this House and elevate those usual tools that they would use in secondary legislation and in regulation and, indeed, communicating with the chair of the RBNZ in the letter which the Minister has been asked to table in this House and has not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a860b7ee5df42bf8a31c2f5bc72a3a3\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: I have tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcda30d5ae7f4878990ce4a89dd954d5\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh sorry, sorry, apologies to the Minister. She said she has tabled her letter to the Reserve Bank Governor, so I will look for that on the Table when I\u2019m finished with my contribution. I am sorry and I would like to make a contribution on that letter, so I hope I get another chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo we are saying in this bill, if we pass it today, that it is acceptable practice for a finance Minister to use the House\u2019s time, to use primary legislation, to do all of those things which would usually be in conversation with the Reserve Bank and in conversation with the monetary policy committee. So when we look at those experts appointed to that committee, who are experts in their fields\u2014they are often academics, they are often practitioners of economics within our community, they have some form of expertise in this\u2014that we\u2019re saying they don\u2019t need to be listened to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211ce98e3f17c46f7af8cd7bb73c6aa63\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about the commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234604b3a40fa4a288795349700ccc5df\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that they don\u2019t need to come to a select committee, the Hon Scott Simpson. And, instead, it\u2019s generally accepted practice for the Minister of Finance to come and make those changes to what is something that is constitutionally important to New Zealand to make those changes. And I would say to those members interjecting on the other side that we have not been able to have a select committee process on this, where I would have proposed the changes that I am setting out to the name of the Act. They\u2019re very quick to shut down debate in this discussion, which is really central to the constitutional framework of our economy. Because the RBNZ\u2019s independence is something that we all agree with\u2014that the RBNZ, when it can make its own decisions, is the exact point of a 1980 Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d26928e1113463b9355960727392926\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226f14c338e24469e9244d601bffa9a37\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: If this is about the relevance of what this member is talking about, then that is a job for the Chair. But I\u2019ll invite you to carry on with your point of order, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275cc206e865940d09e13733e0f08a595\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, thank you. No, I notice you\u2019re doing that, Mr Chair. I just noticed she hadn\u2019t seen your attempts to bring her back to the bill. So I was just trying to draw her attention to your gestures there. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb58c381658845e5a30d2be18c1d8849\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your attention to the Chair, Mr van de Molen. But the point is, you do need to keep referring back regularly to the point, especially when you stray off these three parts of the bill we\u2019re discussing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228570aa293b1446efbb3cc094006ed820\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. The point I\u2019m hoping to make is that the name of this bill is really important and would have been important to the select committee\u2019s process if it were to have occurred. It did not occur, which is a change in the way that we might otherwise make, you know, amendments to the way that the Government directs the RBNZ.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo I would have proposed in select committee that the name would have changed because it\u2019s really important that we\u2019re clear that we are establishing a new practice for finance Ministers to make changes in this way. So we should be clear, when we\u2019re elevating things that are usually in secondary legislation to primary legislation, that we are doing so. This might have also been something the excellent committee the Regulations Review Committee might have also considered, but we\u2019re actually moving away now from a secondary legislation tool and into primary legislation. So the job of the select committee would have been the only check and balance of reviewing that legislation, because primary legislation only goes through those select committees. That is an opportunity that has been denied to this House and that\u2019s why we should accept this amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002290b9e9b32b294d0aafafdde116c0ffd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290b9e9b32b294d0aafafdde116c0ffd5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022a22d5dcefe244b399dc8f91d67bb88a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a22d5dcefe244b399dc8f91d67bb88a4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I want in this particular call in this debate to refer to the title of the bill, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill 2023, and to highlight my concerns as to why that title is not accurate to both what is in the bill and indeed what I believe is the intent of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act that is being amended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe idea that there is a single objective about the economy that the Reserve Bank is looking for is completely false, in my view. Members of the House will be aware that there are many, many different definitions of what the economy is. For us on this side of the House, the economy is not an abstract thing. It is in fact very much about people. So my view is that the title of the bill should actually reflect that it is a narrowing of the objectives of the Reserve Bank beyond, or below, or whatever word you want, the economy as we understand it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt was instructive to note that when Arena Williams was speaking about people losing their jobs and people not being able to pay their bills, there was laughing coming from the Minister in the chair during that period of time. From our perspective on this side of the House, if you\u2019re going to title a bill about the Reserve Bank of New Zealand \u201CEconomic Objective\u201D, it should at the very least somehow or other represent people. Ultimately, that has been what\u2019s at stake in this debate. Our job when we are in the House is to accurately describe legislation. If I was describing this piece of legislation accurately, I would say that this is the \u201CReserve Bank of New Zealand (Putting At Risk People\u2019s Jobs) Bill\u201D, because that is, essentially, what has happened here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EGraeme Wheeler, the previous Governor of the Reserve Bank in 2013-14, took some decisions and went on a monetary policy tightening cycle when unemployment was up above 5 percent. He did that with the single mandate. So if we were thinking about his actions in relation to the title of this bill, we would be very, very concerned to make sure that it was accurately titled. It would, in fact, be something along the lines that I have suggested about the impact that it would have on people\u2019s jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EAlso in terms of the title is the concern I have around the idea that a single objective actually reflects the role the Reserve Bank Act provides for. When you\u2019re amending a piece of legislation, the title needs to ensure that in some way or other it reflects the primary legislation that is being amended. It is quite clear\u2014and this point is one that I did make in a different part, so I am acknowledging that to the Chair, but it is quite clear to me that the purposes of this Act and the objectives of the Act as it has now been amended are out of sync. So, again, the title should probably reflect that as well by saying the \u201CReserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objectives\u2014Counter to Purposes) Amendment Bill\u201D, because that\u2019s now what\u2019s been done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBecause when we made the change in 2019, we made a change not just to the objective, to add the objective of maximum and sustainable employment, but also to the purposes of the bill, to add in the concepts of sustainability and wellbeing. This brings us right back to my first point. The Reserve Bank\u2019s job, yes, is to set monetary policy, but it doesn\u2019t do that in a vacuum; it does that when it\u2019s focused on the impacts of those decisions on the whole economy. That\u2019s what the Reserve Bank Act actually does right now, today, because the purpose clause still has it in. Yet this bill, titled \u201CEconomic Objective\u201D, runs directly counter to that. It\u2019s actually not what the purposes of the Act say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Minister was asked a couple of times in earlier debates whether or not she could reconcile those two things and just kept saying that she was going to change the remit. Well, that may well be the case as to what she\u2019s doing. It doesn\u2019t stop the fact that we now have legislation that is inconsistent. So that could be another title for this bill: the \u201CReserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective\u2014Creating Inconsistency) Amendment Bill\u201D, because that is precisely what this piece of legislation now does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe Minister in the chair may well laugh, but she needs to take a look at the legislation that she\u2019s amending and see that the purposes of it very clearly take the Reserve Bank to a place where it has a job to promote the wellbeing of these Zealanders. The title of this bill no longer reflects the rest of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022d80a16f421ec45aa8bb2565426e8f9d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d80a16f421ec45aa8bb2565426e8f9d6\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b13c1765b3c84b6c93d44bcb6fc66fe7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b13c1765b3c84b6c93d44bcb6fc66fe7\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for giving me the opportunity to speak directly to the amendments proposed by both the Hon Grant Robertson and the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor in relation to the commencement date of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe reason I seek the call is because, as the Minister has already said, the Minister has advised that she does not want to change the commencement date and she still wants the commencement date to be the day after the bill receives the Royal assent. Commencement dates are incredibly important\u2014incredibly important\u2014and no more so if you are taking a bill through under urgency. You are, effectively, changing primary legislation and then you\u2019re saying to the public \u201Cand do it straight away\u201D. Under urgency, we haven\u2019t had a select committee hearing. We haven\u2019t had an ability to call for submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThere are a number of mechanisms within the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act which allow for reviews over the years. In particular, there is one around having, I think, a remit review within a five-year period. My concern is that because we went through Part 2 so fast, I was unable to table an amendment to look at what we could do in terms of a statutory review. When you have new regimes or you have such significant policy decisions, this affects our macroeconomic outlook. This affects how the Reserve Bank Governor changes the official cash rate and what they take into account for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo without the ability to have a select committee hearing, because we\u2019re doing this under urgency, there is an inability for me to table an amendment for a statutory review, which is sometimes the safety net that parliaments across time use time and time again\u2014when there is piece of legislation like this, they put in a statutory review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI urge this committee to approve a delay in the commencement date, because we\u2019ve heard from the Minister, from officials, from the regulatory impact statement, from a number of speeches in the Chamber, and from the Reserve Bank Governor himself that there is still a priority on price stability and that there is clear evidence that the maximum sustainable employment is actually almost like a hierarchy; it\u2019s secondary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EBut one of the main things\u2014and, again, I thank the Treasury officials for that regulatory impact statement. And this is something where the Hon Shane Jones said in the House the other day, \u201CDetails, details, details.\u201D Well, I\u2019m a details person, and I\u2019m a person that reads regulatory impact statements, and I want to put that on the record for the Prime Minister, who said that nobody reads them. I read them. And one of the footnotes in the regulatory impact statement\u2014footnote 2\u2014references a Treasury report drafted in 2023. It\u2019s Reserve Bank\u2019s 2023 monetary policy committee Remit Review - 27 April 2023 - Treasury Advice on the 2023 monetary policy committee Remit Review Information Release - The Treasury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EAgain, Mr Chair, this is relevant. It will go to why I urge for a delay in the commencement date. So I go back to the advice\u2014you know, \u201Cdetails, details, details.\u201D Well, this is the detail. This is the Treasury report: Reserve Bank\u2019s 2023 monetary policy committee Remit Review. In here is the analysis and the background that Treasury provides to the Minister of Finance, and I quote: \u201CMonetary policy is currently operating in a challenging environment, with inflation at multi-decade highs while the labour market remains tight. The current operating context reflects both demand and supply factors, including the combined impacts of significant fiscal and monetary policy responses\u201D\u2014fiscal and monetary responses, I quote\u2014\u201Cduring the COVID-19 pandemic, and supply-side disruptions associated with the COVID-19 pandemic and the Russian invasion of Ukraine. In New Zealand, the monetary policy committee has raised the OCR at its fastest pace since prior to the Global Financial Crisis to contain inflation and anchor inflation expectations.\u201D Then it goes through two particular figures which show the projected Consumers Price Index and the annual inflation figures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThen, at paragraph 8 of this important report, it carries on, and I quote, \u201CMonetary policy is expected to continue to face challenges in the years ahead, including uncertainty about the future trend in neutral interest rates and the related risk of reaching the effective lower bound, increased risks of supply disruptions associated with geopolitical tensions and regionalisation, and the move towards more sustainable production practices in response to practices in response to climate change\u201D. And that refers to an earlier 2022 Treasury report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe key thing from that particular report, which I take back to clause 2, is why I urge this committee to consider a delay and agree to one of the amendments on the Table, whether it\u2019s the 18-month delay recommended by the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor or whether it is the additional delay until 2026 recommended by the Hon Grant Robertson. It is for the key point that that report sets out, which is in the detail, which is in a footnote, which is in the regulatory impact statement, which, again, I read: \u201CMonetary policy is expected to continue to face challenges in the years ahead, including uncertainty about the future trend\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThose amendments on the Table to clause 2 ask for more time because we are in a very uncertain period, and that\u2019s why I don\u2019t agree with the changes, obviously, to the remit. We\u2019ve had a lot of debate on that, even though it was shortened because we had no select committee stage. But, again, I think having a delay in the commencement date allows, in a period that we are in of high uncertainty, for there to be greater stability because you\u2019re not changing the primary legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EAnd I understand that the Minister did say we didn\u2019t want the Order in Council because, you know, it\u2019s secondary legislation\u2014that was in response to one of the other member\u2019s comments\u2014and that is exactly what\u2019s in the regulatory impact statement. That\u2019s exactly what the Treasury officials advised against\u2014not to do that Order in Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EHowever, she failed to remember that in the regulatory impact statement they also said, \u201CDon\u2019t change the primary legislation; do it through the remit.\u201D, which is why I think it\u2019s incredibly important that, you know\u2014you don\u2019t necessarily have to agree with Treasury all the time. I know other Ministers in various Governments didn\u2019t always agree with Treasury. But we are in a period of uncertainty. We have a period where the country is going to be facing a number of challenges in the year ahead because of what\u2019s happening geopolitically, both in our region and overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why I absolutely urge the committee to consider a delay to this primary legislation\u2014because we are in an uncertain period. I\u2019m not too sure whether I\u2019ll have an ability to scrutinise\u2014or perhaps I could do it as a member\u2019s bill\u2014and do a review. However, in the absence of that ability\u2014because we had urgency and we weren\u2019t able to table too many more amendments\u2014I\u2019m looking at having some time to be able to keep the primary legislation as it is, with the dual mandate. That is not to say that in 18 months\u2019 time or in 2026\u2014when, actually, there was going to be a review anyway; I think the last one was in 2021. It just allows the ability for there to be certainty in our markets, and then our markets know, in 2026 or in 18 months\u2019 time, in the forecast that has been provided, we are going to see more stability. It allows there to be that opportunity for the commencement date to be then. But if you do it now, straight away, in a bill that has not been to a select committee and has just been subject, basically, to the analysis on this side of the committee by various parties\u2014unable to provide those amendments, with no statutory review because we didn\u2019t have the ability to table that in enough time, and because the process on Part 2 was so short. I urge the committee not to go through with it straight away, on the day after the bill receives the Royal assent. Instead, go either with the 18-month period as recommended by Damien O\u2019Connor, or 2026, as recommended by the Hon Grant Robertson, because that allows us to be able to have some certainty over this period. And, again, monetary policy is expected to continue to face challenges in the years ahead, including uncertainty about the future trend in neutral interest rates and the related risk of reaching the effective lower bound increase of supply disruption, geopolitical tensions, regionalisation, and a move towards more sustainable production practices in response to climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThis is not the time to go straight into the date being the day after the Royal assent\u2014it is a time when we have a lot of uncertainty, as set out by officials. We have a little bit of time to be able to stabilise things that we need to do, because I understand you\u2019ve got a laser-like focus on it. Allow for that stabilisation and then bring into force, if you still want to do it, that particular commencement date\u2014either in 18 months or in 2026. I urge the committee to have consideration of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u00220e3442ad225f4aa1a5f2fba0652464d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e3442ad225f4aa1a5f2fba0652464d3\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2081f5436424a398f13eab0886f925b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2081f5436424a398f13eab0886f925b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just a couple of things. Decisions around closure motions have been around two things. One is getting the wording exactly right to the closure motion. The other is the Minister\u2019s participation. The other is, of course, the relevance and repetition. So all three are probably failing at the moment, so I\u2019ll go to the Hon Grant Robertson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0c67d43651b4e09badbae3533001bf3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0c67d43651b4e09badbae3533001bf3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you very much for another call on this part, which is an important part\u2014the title and commencement. I want to focus this call on a different matter that I haven\u2019t raised before, and that is the question of Royal assent. So just to be absolutely clear here, the bill will come into force, according to clause 2, on the day after Royal assent has been granted. Now, the process of Royal assent in New Zealand is long established\u2014it\u2019s one that most members of the House will be aware of. And when the Governor-General, who would be giving Royal assent in their role\u2014on behalf of the King\u2014comes to consider this piece of legislation, they will be asking themselves the questions that we on this side of the House have been asking, and that is: is it appropriate to sign off a piece of legislation that has come forward and at no point in the debate on the legislation has there been any evidence provided as to its necessity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, the Sovereign will, obviously\u2014or the Sovereign\u2019s representative\u2014take very seriously the fact that this Parliament has debated the matter. But there are actually debates in Parliament in the past that have covered this question around whether or not there is an automatic requirement, essentially, that Royal assent has to be granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWell, I would suggest that in this particular case, we\u2019ve got a very good example of where a bill has not had any evidence to back it up. It hasn\u2019t gone well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e631dd930a584890bc4717052511d04c\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Aww!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022041b58a6cb1c4ad1a784e41c730e9bac\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no. Members opposite argue and interject in my speech\u2014adding to the need for it\u2014that perhaps evidence has been provided. On every occasion in the earlier parts of this bill, when we asked was there evidence that the Reserve Bank had taken their eye off the ball of focusing on inflation because it had a dual mandate\u2014every time we asked for that, we didn\u2019t get an answer. We got \u201Cit could\u201D, \u201Cit might\u201D, \u201Cit\u2019s possible\u201D\u2014we never heard evidence. So the actual purpose and reasoning of the bill is not supported with a commencement date as currently listed in clause 2. The other matter that I believe would be given serious consideration as to whether Royal assent should be granted is the fact that this bill has gone through under urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ENow, I accept that bills go through under urgency on a regular basis in this House. There are a variety of reasons for that, but there are particular types of legislation that one would want to be very careful about putting through under urgency, and, therefore, if one were in the position to be granting Royal assent under clause 2 of the bill, one would want to consider. And, in particular, this legislation\u2014the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act 2021\u2014is at the heart of the way the economy is managed in New Zealand. It\u2019s arguably of constitutional importance, because the Reserve Bank is an independent institution, and when Parliament comes to make decisions about changing aspects of it, serious consideration needs to be given to the views of the public and the transparency. So when one is making a decision about when this bill should commence\u2014and we have options on the table, amendments that are there that can be taken up by the Government to give some space and time in the absence of that select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWhen the changes were made in 2019 to move to this position, we took this piece of legislation out on the road, in draft form, for people to understand\u2014actually, it was before the draft, but we took the concepts out on the road for people to understand. There were many submissions and a lot of discussion. A bill was then drafted, and then it went to select committee and public submissions were taken on it. So if we\u2019re thinking about when a bill should commence, it should commence after all of that has occurred, and that is what is being offered there: the amendments on the Table that suggest either going to 1 December 2026 or taking an extra 18 months\u2014or, indeed, having an independent expert panel come in. Those options must be the ones that the House takes up, because, actually, we owe it to New Zealanders, for a matter of this seriousness, that it does get a matter of proper public scrutiny, it does have some transparency associated with it, we do hear from experts in the field\u2014otherwise, we are placing the person who has to give Royal assent under clause 2 of this bill in an extremely difficult position. There are alternatives to commencing this in the haste that the Government is, and I urge them to take those alternatives up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u002218c755eea62a4c6098db02a21b405052\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218c755eea62a4c6098db02a21b405052\u0022\u003EHAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cbf0adef40d145b5bff6c216373a8cf2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002297661d7ef62a4236bf62c3c264233480\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297661d7ef62a4236bf62c3c264233480\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227c04f4cfb729432e8e9881363cb9501c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227d1bc5589e2e4d55876590e3981955a7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000305\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224dbd4ddafb15402ea6c29fed9338431a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dbd4ddafb15402ea6c29fed9338431a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e12ed21a9c1c42a4baa7c94303d695ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e12ed21a9c1c42a4baa7c94303d695ea\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Grant Robertson\u2019s tabled amendments to clause 2 are out of order as not being in the correct form of legislation. The amendment proposed is to create an uncertain commencement date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002233b50ed1fed34ab788219d6722bddded\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000308\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000309\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000310\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000311\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4ea1f33bcd24b0bac5866dba2994080\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4ea1f33bcd24b0bac5866dba2994080\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The committee has considered the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002288b2de3da9fc460691bd5c018bf4256a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288b2de3da9fc460691bd5c018bf4256a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for third reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8589797e6d24b049296d25b544fd7cd\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002218bbc869d59f4d958900817b6d0c3c2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218bbc869d59f4d958900817b6d0c3c2f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThis bill makes clear that for New Zealand\u2019s new Government inflation is public enemy number one. New Zealanders have elected a Government who has what it takes to address the cost of living crisis that was allowed to fester by the outgoing Government. We understand that for so long as inflation remains out of control then New Zealanders will continue to suffer. They will continue to suffer from price increases that erode the value of their savings. They will continue to suffer from price increases that eat away at the money in their bank accounts. They will continue to suffer with price and rent increases that make it impossible for too many to get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo what this bill does is it realises our commitment that in our first 100 days we would return the Reserve Bank to a single focus on inflation. This bill gives the Reserve Bank and its monetary policy committee absolute clarity about its role in our economy; it needs to focus on the principal objective of price stability because that is the best contribution that monetary policy can make to our economic and social wellbeing. Because without price stability, all of the other things that members of this House wish for, whether it be sustainable employment, well-paying jobs, good opportunities, none of that can be delivered without the foundation that price stability provides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAnd be there no doubt about the scourge that is inflation, because the past three years have laid bare what happens when inflation gets its grip on an economy. We have had a cost of living crisis that has seen people across our community suffering. Loose monetary policy contributed to an asset price spike on a scale not seen for many, many years that had the direct impact of widening the gap between the haves and the have-nots. Inflation has been particularly hard on low-income earners as wages have struggled to keep up with increased price pressures. And in the debate about this bill, we have had some rather fatuous arguments from the other side who have tried to question whether we on this side believe jobs matter. Well, let me be clear: jobs matter very, very much and, actually, on this side of the House we understand what\u2019s required to create them and sustain them. We have studied enough economics to know that monetary policy is not the primary determinant of the level of employment because, actually, structural factors\u2014the tax system, the regulation of the labour market, the level of skills in the economy, all of those things must be considered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWe are a Government that will take responsibility for our role in creating the conditions for employment by ensuring that businesses have the confidence to invest, they have the confidence to create jobs, that they\u2019ll give people a go and create opportunities. And I would note that, actually, the former finance Minister was advised himself in May 2018\u2014when he took advice on whether he should fiddle with the Reserve Bank Act he was advised of that very thing, that, actually, the monetary policy was not the primary determinant of the level of employment, and, in fact, that price stability, low, stable inflation, is the precondition on which employment sits. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThere have been questions in this House about why we would amend the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. Confused questions, because some members have sort of been saying this is a terrible, awful bill\u2014and we had the former member for Wellington Central waxing lyrical about the 1980s and 1990s; we got to occupy that part of his mind that lives in the past\u2014but then we also had them saying that the bill would have no effect whatsoever. Well, the fact is this: without amending the Act, the monetary policy committee would still be required to have regard to maximum sustainable employment. So in order to achieve our objective and the promise that we have made to New Zealanders\u2014which is to ensure that single focus for the monetary policy committee\u2014we must amend the Act and that is what we are doing today. The value here is that we ensure greater focus than we could through doing things with the remit alone. And I have to say, was it a low point in Mr Robertson\u2019s career when he used a filibuster in the House today to question whether the Governor-General should really be able to offer assent to bills at all? It felt like a bit of a low point to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe benefits of this bill are not only that it gives clarity in how the monetary policy committee operates but also that it will give clarity for those rare circumstances, which economists agree could occur, where the two goals of maximum employment and price stability could be in conflict. With this Act, we will make clear that price stability should be the objective. It will also have an impact on perceptions of the role of the Reserve Bank, of its decision-making processes, and of its objectives. The Reserve Bank itself has noted\u2014itself has noted, including in a letter I have tabled in this House\u2014the need for that priority of inflation busting to be made clear to everyone, to be made clear to decision makers, to be made clear to market participants, to be made clear to New Zealanders. With this bill, we will ensure that price setters\u2014that is, the people who are setting the prices for the goods in the shops that New Zealanders are buying\u2014will be thinking about what inflation is going to look like in the future. And when they\u2019re thinking about those questions over the coming months, they should think about this: we have a Government now that is crystal clear it wants inflation out of this economy. It wants price stability back. It wants inflation gone. They can be crystal clear when they\u2019re thinking about where inflation is going that we have equipped the Reserve Bank with the singular focus it needs to drive that goal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo where we are today with the passage of this legislation is we are marking a return to economic fundamentals. We are marking a return to proven economic orthodoxies that have delivered for New Zealand in the past. We are marking a return to clarity and purpose in the action of Government where confusion has reigned for six years. We have gone through, as a country, a period of economic experimentation; six years of failed experimentation that led to worse results for New Zealanders. We have had a Government that threw a thousand priorities at the wall, that made multiple aspirational statements on everything from a nuclear-free moment through to a hundred thousand KiwiBuild houses through to eliminating child poverty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227bd6061f67e4e1c8999fe1eab6888ff\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Fantasy!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022208a7a4fcae34a98a37953b120325306\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve had a Government full of fantasies, a Government that added objectives and priorities willy-nilly across our statute book, that considered the signal of virtue more important than the realisation of deed. In this Government, we now have a crew who are committed to clarity of purpose objective, and with this bill we make clear that fighting inflation sits number one on that list because without inflation under control Labour\u2019s cost of living crisis will go on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAnd here\u2019s the thing: this is a basic step, but if you don\u2019t get the basics right, the words\u2014all of those words\u2014amount to nothing. And so today, in passing this bill, the Government makes clear our priorities, our expectations, and our grounding in economic fundamentals. Because for too long, New Zealanders\u2019 living standards have been sacrificed on the altar of good intentions. And that\u2019s all that the six-year experimentation with the changed Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act was; it was a mishmash of good intention, and good intentions without the foundations of basic economics amount to nowt. So with this bill we make clear that we wish to eliminate inflation. We are using all levers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278ed9481d432401e9d9f31e978727e4b\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Eliminate!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221cc6129a42d43118d43c3d44cca523a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Eliminate high inflation, get it back within the target between 1 to 3, the midpoint of 2. Because at the end of the day you can\u2019t deliver for people with words, you do it with action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00229f65d1c23ff946b7b1c257f3552e9cfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f65d1c23ff946b7b1c257f3552e9cfb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00228c90f24624d3442f8b5a44d621e2ea44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c90f24624d3442f8b5a44d621e2ea44\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What a sad indictment on this Government that the very first piece of legislation they bring to the House is not to look forward, to take the country forward; it is to take away a focus on jobs by one of the most important actors in the New Zealand economy. It stands in stark contrast to what happened in the first hundred days of the Government in 2017, where we passed legislation to increase access to paid parental leave, where we passed legislation to create the winter energy payment and the Best Start payment, where we moved to make sure that there was legislation so that New Zealanders who lived in rentals lived in healthy rentals. That\u2019s what you do when you\u2019ve got a bold, progressive plan of action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EBut what you do when you\u2019ve got no ideas whatsoever is that you fall back to some kind of Milton Friedman - style dream that actually we\u2019re living back in the 1980s. Well, we\u2019re not\u2014we\u2019re not. We\u2019re living in the 21st century, where we need monetary policy and a Reserve Bank that has the tools and the apparatus to be able to do a job that is equivalent to the times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EWe were told numerous times by the Prime Minister and others that this would be a Government who would present to the House and to the New Zealand public evidence-based policy. Yet at every turn over the course of the last many hours that we have been in this House debating this legislation, no evidence has been presented that this piece of legislation is necessary. Because at every turn when the Minister of Finance was asked to provide that evidence to show that the Reserve Bank had somehow or other taken their eye off the ball of inflation because they had a dual mandate, she declined that. She talked about how it could happen or it might be possible, but it didn\u2019t. The Reserve Bank Governor himself told us that\u2014that that is not what occurred, and, in fact, the focus on inflation was resolute in a global inflation crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo that is also where this piece of legislation falls down, because, on the logic of the Government, inflation should have been higher in countries with a dual-mandate central bank and lower in countries with a single-mandate central bank during the recent global inflation crisis, but that wasn\u2019t true. In New Zealand and Australia, both of which have central banks with dual mandates, inflation peaked at\u2014we have a prop\u20147.2 percent and 7.8 percent respectively. But in the United Kingdom, a central bank with a single price stability mandate, inflation peaked at 11.1 percent. Or in the Eurozone, where you have a central bank with a primary price stability mandate, it peaked at 10.6 percent. So no evidence there that there actually was a relationship. Actually, it was a global inflation crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EEqually, no relationship between the speed at which central banks responded depending on their mandate. The New Zealand central bank, the Reserve Bank, was one of the fastest and quickest to respond in the face of this crisis. Also, no evidence provided that the Reserve Bank didn\u2019t understand that there were trade-offs to be made if in the future those two ideals conflicted with each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt is worth noting at this point the complete misunderstanding of the Government of what maximum sustainable employment actually is. It\u2019s written, for the benefit of members opposite, in the Reserve Bank\u2019s monetary policy framework. As defined by the Reserve Bank, maximum sustainable employment is \u201Cthe highest utilisation of labour resources that can be maintained \u2026 without generating an acceleration in inflation\u201D. So it\u2019s already built in to the definition of maximum sustainable employment that it shouldn\u2019t undermine the work that the Reserve Bank is doing to control inflation. So no evidence presented to this House that actually there\u2019s any contradiction whatsoever. The only conclusion you can draw from that is that the Government doesn\u2019t care about people being in jobs, and it doesn\u2019t care about their wages rising, and it would rather prioritise a narrow ideology from the 1980s than actually support working people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt also ignores the virtue of having a dual mandate. It was covered a number of times during the debate that there has been an example in New Zealand\u2019s recent history where having a single mandate arguably caused the Reserve Bank Governor to take actions that, in fact, would increase unemployment. So even though we had inflation running at about 1.5 percent, the then Reserve Bank Governor in 2014, Graeme Wheeler, decided that this was a good time to start a monetary policy tightening cycle. Unemployment was at 5.6 percent. And that\u2019s the risk\u2014that we put ourselves back in that position where a Reserve Bank Governor myopically focused on one objective misses the rest of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s always been about making sure that prices are stable, but what we did was modernise the legislation so it actually spoke to the higher and wider purpose of monetary policy. I note that the Government didn\u2019t change the purpose section, which we put in in 2021, which continues to say that the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act should have as its purpose the wellbeing and the sustainability of the New Zealand economy. So we\u2019ve set that higher purpose. They haven\u2019t changed it, but they\u2019ve come along and changed the objectives, the things that you do in order to achieve the purpose, and narrowed them down. So you\u2019ve now got an inconsistency there, but beyond that inconsistency, you\u2019ve lost the opportunity for the Reserve Bank to be given that role of making sure we\u2019re talking about maximum sustainable employment, we\u2019re talking about jobs and keeping people in jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe thing that\u2019s got New Zealand through the recent global cost of living pressures and the spikes in inflation and the increases in interest rates that followed from that is because people have been in work. That\u2019s what\u2019s got us through this. If we hadn\u2019t have had the low levels of unemployment that we\u2019ve had in New Zealand in the last few years, we would have seen waves of mortgagee sales. We would have seen a far deeper impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo keeping the eye on the ball, on inflation? Critical. And the Reserve Bank did it. Keeping the eye on the ball of keeping people in work and making sure they\u2019ve got money to be able to put kai on the table\u2014that matters too. Every single part of the economic apparatus of Government should be playing its role in that. And today the Government decides Kiwis\u2019 jobs don\u2019t matter. That\u2019s what they\u2019ve decided with the change that has been made today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe other claim without evidence throughout this debate has been that this change will magically improve the cost of living situation for New Zealanders. We even had members opposite in the debate in the first and the second reading saying \u201Cpass by Christmas and the cost of living for New Zealanders will improve\u201D. Absolutely no evidence presented on that. In fact, some very big claims from the Minister of Finance. Just latterly, one of those was that she was going to eliminate inflation entirely. Good luck with that. But secondly, in the House yesterday, the Minister claimed that inflation would go down quicker under her Government as a result of this legislation than had been previously projected. Well, we will be holding the Minister to account for that claim. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EInflation is indeed forecast to be coming down, as we would expect and as we would hope when the Reserve Bank is doing its job. But nothing in this legislation is going to make that happen quicker. The members opposite are selling New Zealanders an untruth here, because they are claiming in this House that they are passing legislation that will reduce the cost of living by Christmas, according to some of those members opposite, and that simply is not going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003ESo this first piece of legislation in the journey backwards that has been taken at rapid rate by this Government sets a very unfortunate precedent. The next bit of legislation attacks the wages of the lowest-income people. The bit of legislation immediately after that attacks the climate action programme. And this piece of legislation says that this is a Government who have got their priorities wrong. They are deciding actively to undermine efforts to make sure that we focus on jobs\u2014the things that New Zealanders value so much. It is a depressing start from a depressing Government who only want to take us backwards. This is a bill that the Labour Party strongly opposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022c936b9c21c8d4bb98791a5aa57ac6ae2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c936b9c21c8d4bb98791a5aa57ac6ae2\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Green\u2014Auckland Central):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. It is now many hours on from this legislation being introduced under urgency late last night, and I got to say I still am kind of left quite puzzled in the absence of any meaningful evidence as to the purpose of this very legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s just worthwhile putting on the record once again for the nth time the three reasons as to why the Green Party oppose this legislation. The first is that, as was put forward by the Reserve Bank Governor, Adrian Orr, in the Finance and Expenditure Committee most explicitly in the November 2022 hearing, which the now Minister of Finance was present at\u2014in response to my question of whether that dual mandate had made any difference to decisions that they would have made, had they only had that sole mandate of the focus on price stability, he said, and I quote, \u201CNo is the answer. We haven\u2019t come across any trade-offs of employment versus inflation. There is no conflict.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI totally take on board the point from the Minister that there could potentially be a point of conflict. But therein lies our second point, that it is unnecessary for this change to come about in law. In fact, the major rationale that\u2019s been relied upon in this debate from the Government side of things has been that letter that the Minister received, speaking to the need to explicitly prioritise that dual mandate, particularly, resulting in the primacy, the explicit primacy, of that price stability mandate. And to that effect, as was put in that June 2023 review from the monetary policy committee, there is a way to do that without changing the legislation. This was actually what the Minister\u2019s own officials recommended with regard to the ability to simply change the remit. Again, that\u2019s reflected in the regulatory impact statement out there for everybody to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThirdly, I have heard throughout this debate that the Minister still wants the monetary policy committee (MPC) to have regard to employment. We\u2019re yet to see how that will manifest through the MPC remit. I\u2019m very interested to see that, but it is, I think, a little bit concerning that we\u2019re basically being asked to wait and see here as to how that will manifest while this bill passes under urgency and we\u2019re left without the evidence to have a meaningful and informed debate on what that remit is ultimately going to shape up to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo to reflect on some of the broader points that have been raised throughout this debate, because many have raised the notion of inflation in general and the notion of the economy, I just was reflecting on a meme, actually, that a friend of mine sent to me a few months ago throughout the election period, saying that whenever we\u2019re hearing politicians speaking about the economy, you can replace that word, the \u201Ceconomy\u201D, with \u201Cvibes\u201D. And we\u2019ve kind of heard that in some sense from the sentiments expressed by the Minister of Finance, that what is actually perhaps most important here is perception of market players, the vibes of market players, the confidence of market players.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EAnd again, to that effect, what we\u2019re really talking about here is that this economy that all of us so frequently talk about as a stagnant kind of set of rules that are somehow set in stone or concrete is, in fact, a set of rules created by human beings to govern all of us, our behaviour and activities, to get the kinds of outcomes that we all supposedly want in this society. Because we don\u2019t live in a game of Monopoly, which, by the way, was invented in the early 1900s to actually teach children the pitfalls of an economy that is premised on land speculation and luck. Yet, hey presto, what do we have to this day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to quote here from Paul Hawken, who says, and I quote, \u201CWe have an economy where we steal the future, sell it in the present, and call it GDP.\u201D GDP, of course, was invented by a guy called Simon Kuznets who took it to the US Congress in the 1930s and was, like, \u201CHey guys, here\u2019s a really good way for us to measure economic transactions at a macro scale inside of our economy.\u201D But, God forbid, do not use it as a measure of what he called welfare and we now call wellbeing. That\u2019s because that baseline measure of just those transactions does not give us any meaningful insight into the value of those transactions, whether we actually want them in the first place, whether they actually benefit people and the planet, nor the distribution of those transactions; that is, who benefits from those transactions. Because the squiggly line of GDP can go up, but we also know full well that so too can homelessness, so too can the desecration of the environmental fundamentals that are necessary for life as we know it. So the kind of premise from the Green Party here is that we can do this economy thing a lot better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard a lot about how this bill is apparently going to be the magic bullet to deal with inflation. In fact, we\u2019ve heard some really fascinating things, including in the closing remarks from the Minister of Finance, about how we want to get rid of inflation. The kind of logical consequence of that is probably deflation or stagflation. And again, I\u2019d really like some clarity, and perhaps we\u2019ll get that in this, you know, magical monetary policy remit which will come out at some point subsequent to this bill passing under urgency without any meaningful scrutiny, least of all through select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut with all of this talk from members of the Government about prices going up for many goods which are provided inside of our domestic economy, largely under a duopolistic kind of behaviour, it seems as though they\u2019re actually probably more fundamentally concerned about capitalism and the way that capitalism works. [Interruption] I can see that riled them up and I\u2019m grateful for it, because I\u2019d love them to stand up and to excuse or to make a rationale for those points that they\u2019re talking about with regard to inflation and what drives it. Because, in fact, we actually also throughout the election had some great pieces of research coming out from the likes of the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions which showed us that corporate greed was one of the major drivers of inflation domestically. They may bicker with me about that point, but so far the major citation that I have heard from members of the Government about the market players that matter right now, with regard to their perception of inflation, are Business New Zealand. Again, we can have all kinds of debates about the relationships that political parties have with entities outside of this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EBut the fundamental point remains that this bill will not do what it says on the tin and what the Government is promising that it will do. Because, again, those three core points that the Greens have stated time and again throughout this debate remain. It is that the Reserve Bank Governor himself has put it on the record, as the Minister well knows, that the dual mandate has not changed the way that they approach or focus on inflation or price stability. So the subtext of what\u2019s being put forward today by the Government is that they don\u2019t trust the Governor, as far as that goes. The second thing is that it is unnecessary to change the law to do this, as reflected in the regulatory impact statement from the Minister\u2019s own officials. \u201CThey could do this through the remit\u201D, which it appears that they\u2019re also still planning to impose some kind of consideration for employment within\u2014so, again, I\u2019m still kind of quite puzzled as to what outcome we\u2019re seeking to get here, because they still want the MPC to have regard to employment, if not maximum sustainable employment. And, thirdly, they still want the monetary policy committee to have regard to employment; i.e., they still want some kind of form of this dual mandate. We\u2019re just not quite sure how that\u2019s going to play out and we\u2019re playing a wait and see game which is not a very evidence-informed way to have a debate or discussion or to progress legislation; in fact, it\u2019s the opposite of evidence based.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo I am just finally reflecting on all of the other pieces of evidence that have come out, and actually also some of the sentiments as expressed by the Minister about the kind of interrelationship between monetary policy and fiscal policy, because she was making it abundantly clear that her view, the economic orthodoxy\u2019s view, of which she and the Government is apparently the arbiter of\u2014but their view is that the sole remit of monetary policy should be that focus on price stability and that it is the remit of fiscal policy; i.e., the things that the Government does, tax and spend primarily, which should be that which focuses on employment. But I would also argue that that\u2019s where the Government should also focus on things like productivity and should also focus on things like inequality, should also focus on things like house price stability and otherwise, rental affordability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ETo that effect, it would be remiss of me not to mention a landmark piece of research which came out at the beginning of this year from Treasury with subsidiary papers from the IRD, which gave us a pretty clear insight into where the productivity problem is in this country. It\u2019s in our tax system. It\u2019s in our tax system, which sees right now the top 311 families in this country holding more wealth than the bottom 2.5 million New Zealanders combined. That is not an accident. It is a consequence of a tax system which sees a disproportionate burden placed on those who work for their living versus those who simply accumulate more and more capital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThat can be addressed. That can be addressed whilst also addressing our productivity problem and, God forbid, rewarding hard-working New Zealanders for their work. If we were to fix the problem which sees us as the only OECD country without any form of capital gains tax, of inheritance tax, of stamp duty tax, of ghost house tax, or otherwise\u2014you can reduce the burden on working people if you fix our tax system and you can get more productivity out of it in the long run.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EWe face massive challenges as a country and as a world with the dual crises of the climate crisis and inequality. This bill doesn\u2019t touch the sides on either of those things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00220da22429d03f486189a3759e7b7382c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220da22429d03f486189a3759e7b7382c9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Minister for Regulation):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I thought that was another refreshing nugget of honesty in another of Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s speeches, where she said at one point\u2014as someone who\u2019s spent 6\u00BD hours in this Chamber debating this bill\u2014there\u2019d been no meaningful scrutiny. I mean, I think she needs to give herself a bit more credit. I know there\u2019s a productivity problem in New Zealand, but to spend 6\u00BD hours and then tell the whole world and put in Hansard on the public record that you achieved nothing is really take self-effacement far too far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud to stand on behalf of ACT and as part of this Government to support this bill. This bill is the right thing to do, and the Opposition knows it. And we know they know it, and everyone at home can see they know it, because they have made such contradictory arguments. We heard from Deborah Russell at one point that if this bill went through and there was no longer an objective of maximum sustainable employment, then we would be neglecting people\u2019s jobs, that people could lose their jobs. I guess the logical response to that is that the Reserve Bank should print as much money as possible to keep people employed! That was an extraordinary thing for Deborah Russell to say, and to think that she was the Minister of Revenue responsible for the country\u2019s entire tax system\u2014it just makes me glad that we\u2019re over that period, frankly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EBut then we also heard from Grant Robertson\u2014who, I\u2019ve got to give credit, has a few more chops, at least when it comes to the economy and spending money. He was making the argument, as was Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, that having a dual mandate for the past three years has actually made no difference whatsoever. So we might as well keep the dual mandate, we might as well keep the Reserve Bank focused on price stability, because it only focuses on price stability anyway. Now, if anyone trying to follow along thinks, \u201CWell, that doesn\u2019t quite make sense\u201D, well, they\u2019re actually right to think that because it doesn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIf having a dual mandate, as we\u2019ve heard claimed from the Opposition, made not a jot of difference to how the Reserve Bank acted, the Reserve Bank effectively behaved as though the dual mandate was never introduced, then you might ask: what was the previous Government, and specific members still on that side of the House who voted for it\u2014what was their justification for introducing the dual mandate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a few possibilities. Perhaps they thought, wrongly, at the time, that the dual mandate would have an effect on monetary policy. That\u2019s OK\u2014we\u2019ve all thought things in the past that turned out not to be true. In fact, that\u2019s actually how knowledge advances: you have a theory, you test it, sometimes it\u2019s wrong, you discard it and pick up a new theory\u2014that\u2019s fine. But if it\u2019s true that they used to think the dual mandate would change the Reserve Bank\u2019s behaviour, somehow, for the better, and they\u2019ve since learnt that it didn\u2019t, if they were rational people on the Opposition benches, they would have changed their position and said, \u201CLook, we were wrong then, it didn\u2019t make any difference, so we\u2019re quite comfortable with getting rid of it.\u201D That would have been a logical and sensible approach for the Opposition members to take. But they haven\u2019t taken that approach. They\u2019ve said, \u201CWe introduced it, it made no difference, but, somehow, it should be kept.\u201D How they manage to square that circle, I do not know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnother variant of that of that argument was made by Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, who had read in the regulatory impact statement that there was the possibility the Government could achieve its objectives by changing the remit\u2014that is, the direction or the lever from the Minister of Finance to the Reserve Bank Governor\u2014rather than changing the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. But, once again, if that is true that the objectives of the bank set out in the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act make no difference and can be somehow substituted for or even overridden by the remit, then that would have applied just as logically back when the previous Government changed the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act to introduce the dual mandate. So if they really believe the argument they\u2019re making today, they could have actually just changed the remit three or four years ago instead of spending all of the time that they spent amending the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat leaves the Opposition in quite a pickle. Were they right then? Are they right now? Is it possible they\u2019re wrong both times? Logically it\u2019s not, but I\u2019m going to tell you which time they were wrong. You see, it is a simple fact that if you hold one lever, you can only pull it in one direction at a time, and if the Reserve Bank holds a lever which is how quickly the printing presses run or not\u2014and I know some people say that\u2019s a metaphor, and they\u2019re right\u2014how easily available do they make credit in the New Zealand economy? Well, they can either run the printing presses faster or slower, and if they run it faster, then at least in the short term that can stimulate economic activity\u2014no question about that. Countries all around the world, despots, bad rulers\u2014they run the printing press fast and everyone feels rich for a while, and, woah, the economy takes off. But if there\u2019s not enough production, the prices go up, we get inflation, and people find that they\u2019re actually just running to stand still and it\u2019s hard to predict what stuff\u2019s going to cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo you can certainly run it faster, and that can have an effect, at least in the short run. Or you can run it slower, and sometimes that\u2019s necessary to make sure that there\u2019s not so much cash floating around in the economy and prices are more stable. What the Government was asking the Reserve Bank to do with the previous policy of a dual mandate was push one lever in two directions at once. Well, it cannot work, and we saw it come out in the debate where some members opposite said, \u201CWell, maybe there could be two objectives but we could just make it really clear that one was more important than the other.\u201D But the question that immediately arises is: how much more important? Does it mean that just sometimes they should push the lever in one direction, but most of the time the other, according to whether it\u2019s employment or inflation that is most important to control? How would they prioritise that one was more important than the other?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe fact is that the Reserve Bank has one lever\u2014print money faster or print money slower\u2014and they can only push the lever in one direction at a time. If they try to do both, or even if they try to pretend some subterfuge that they\u2019re prioritising one over the other, then they will find that they cannot be honest and they cannot be accountable because it\u2019s logically impossible to answer the question of whether they\u2019re doing the right thing. The only available answer will always be \u201CWe\u2019re doing both because we have to.\u201D So moving back to a single mandate is the only way that we can be sure that we will have a Reserve Bank that clearly understands its job, that is totally accountable for doing its job, that can never say, \u201CWell, I failed at one but I was doing both.\u201D There will be one standard for the Reserve Bank and that is: have they met their single objective, which is price stability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EFor members opposite who say, \u201CWhen will this work and how can it work and did it work before?\u201D, well, economies and market participants are funny things. You see, markets are really about processing information, and when new information comes into play, people start to take account for it. People start to price in what they expect to happen in the future. I suspect that, other things being equal, by taking this step today, by sending the message we now have a Government that is prepared to put its time and its capital\u2014and a whole lot of Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s time, apparently\u2014into making sure it\u2019s perfectly clear what our monetary policy objectives are, that people are going to start pricing in, that a new sherrif is in town and inflation is going to the wall. I just suspect that, actually, that is going to have an effect on the prices that people pay, and they will be lower than they would have otherwise been, and people can start to feel some relief from the long, hard, grinding road of inflation they\u2019ve been subject to by the previous Government for nearly three years now where inflation has been outside the target band.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why the leadership being shown by this Government to everybody in the New Zealand economy that price stability and sound money are front and centre is an essential foundation to the economic recovery and the prosperity that this country sorely needs. I support this bill and commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00229b1712ac3b794f7c824912848947dafb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b1712ac3b794f7c824912848947dafb\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First rises to support this bill in its third reading, probably in fewer words than the previous speaker, but we do endorse Mr Seymour\u2019s comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe have recently had an election. The wheels were falling off everywhere in New Zealand, but, essentially, the biggest issue was the cost of living. We as a coalition Government, if we have one job, it is to get on top of inflation. Kiwis have found this in their back pocket: it\u2019s their groceries, it\u2019s their rent, it\u2019s their rates\u2014it is all pervasive. Inflation has impacted everyone, at an individual level, to businesses in employment, the ability to pass on wages, etc. This is foundational in terms of engineering our recovery out of the dire situation we found it in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ) in this is being sent a very clear signal that we want inflation under control. The RBNZ also sent the Government a clear message recently\u2014in fact, Governor Orr telling the Labour Government that \u201Cmonetary policy needs mates\u201D. So it\u2019s not only about this; it\u2019s about making sure our fiscal policy is matching and that we\u2019re not pouring petrol on the fire. We\u2019re very confident that Minister Willis will take heed of that advice and that she will get her arms around this problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe target is unambiguous, it is clear, it is direct, and we are confident that the RBNZ will pick up on that and act. It\u2019s also a signal to the markets, it\u2019s a signal to businesses, and it\u2019s a signal to the public that we mean business. We will banish inflation, and we believe, in New Zealand First, that this is a foundational step. We support the Minister of Finance in bringing this forward, so we\u2019ll support this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u00228c5afad0b37c469382e4bcb9aeb03772\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c5afad0b37c469382e4bcb9aeb03772\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I speak on the third reading of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill. As laid out in my contributions in the first and second readings, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori are strongly opposing this bill. I want to begin by reiterating how outrageous it is that the Government have pushed this law through under urgency. To refuse experts in the public the opportunity to submit is arrogant and extreme. It is reckless lawmaking. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori are concerned with the excessive use of urgency that we have seen from successive Governments. Urgency should only be used when something is genuinely urgent, such as bills that respond to natural emergencies\u2014and don\u2019t worry, this was the same speech we gave to the last Government as well. There is nothing pressing or urgent about this bill, and even when urgency is used there should always still be a select committee process, even if it is shortened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EAs a new member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, I would have welcomed the opportunity to hear from the Reserve Bank and the other monetary policy experts on the implications of this bill. But it is clear that the implications are all bad. The benefit of the maximum sustainable employment objective of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act is that it ensures that the bank considers how its monetary policy effects employment outcomes. During periods in which prices are relatively stable, which is most of the time, the bank can stimulate the economy to support high levels of employment. This is an important counterweight to the general price stability emphasis of the Act and the bank\u2019s operational policy. It helps to ensure the bank doesn\u2019t run an unnecessarily restrictive monetary policy that damages economic output and employment outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThis bill is a solution looking for a problem. There is no economic evidence that the employment mandate has contributed to inflation over the past two years, nor that it has had any other negative economic impacts. Monetary and economic policy should be designed in such a way that it uplifts the social and cultural outcomes of tangata whenua, tangata moana, and working people. Monetary policy that is blindly focused on economic orthodoxy and protecting the interests of the wealthy must be rejected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThe Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori approach to reforming the Reserve Bank would entirely be different. We would be looking to widen the mandate of the bank, not limit it even further. If you look at other countries, many have a much broader view and mandates for their reserve banks to take into account social outcomes and ensuring the wellbeing of communities. The mandate should include holistic wellbeing outcomes including social, cultural, and environmental.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EThe 21st century calls for radical rethink to the way we do economics in this country. The economy is not an end in of itself. It is a tool we can use to improve the social outcomes for our communities. People are struggling. Just getting the basics is becoming more and more expensive. Unemployment is rising. M\u0101ori unemployment, as always, is rising even faster. This bill just fills the pockets of this Government\u2019s rich mates. At this time, we should be laser focused on policies to reduce unemployment, yet this Government is doing the exact opposite. We can see clearly the agenda of this Minister of Finance, which is capitalism over workers. It is the beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022747e18dab3dc4258b8a3fc0ed3c50416\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Misinformation!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220b27aa6d89842a1a3007a14884375e3\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, nickonomics. This is why we condemn this legislation. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori will continue to fight for tangata whenua, tangata Tiriti, and for ordinary working people. E te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc8a51d6f2694eceaf22bb122f7890d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc8a51d6f2694eceaf22bb122f7890d0\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Can I congratulate you on your appointment as Assistant Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI think, for the benefit of people who might be watching at home, we should put our speeches and language into a context that means something to ordinary people. I think, to ordinary people, the work of the Reserve Bank is not always clear. The impact of monetary and fiscal policy on people\u2019s everyday lives, when we use that kind of jargon, isn\u2019t always clear. This bill is not likely to make any substantial difference to inflation in and of itself. There is absolutely no reason to believe it would make a difference to inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAs I showed members opposite last night in the second reading on this bill, if we look at Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation right around the globe, New Zealand tracked right along with other countries, like the United States, Denmark, the United Kingdom, and Australia. In fact, New Zealand\u2019s inflation peaked at a lower level and, while CPI inflation has been slower to come down, ultimately it\u2019s the same general shape, and that\u2019s because the shock that affected New Zealand affected the whole world, and reserve banks around the world responded in similar ways\u2014the constraints on people going to work, because of the COVID pandemic, did result in supply chain shortages, and there were other factors, like the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, which affected gas prices and oil prices, which flowed on to energy prices here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo the main takeaway for people at home is that New Zealand has been through a similar experience to many other countries\u2014that the new Government is trying to blame these arbitrary things on that result, rather than looking at the factors that genuinely contributed to prices going up here in New Zealand. Once we got into a situation of inflation and the Reserve Bank started tightening, which means raising interest rates, that has almost a cyclical effect\u2014like, it tends to reinforce the price rises that were happening. So now food producers\u2019 interest rates are going up\u2014they\u2019re passing that on in the price of food. Interest rates going up for mortgage holders, interest rates going up for landlords\u2014so they\u2019re putting up rents, even when they probably already own the building outright and don\u2019t have a mortgage on it. So we get into the situation where the fact of increasing interest rates, while it can only bring down the price of so many things, definitely has an effect on asset prices like housing, but not necessarily consumer goods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EUltimately, what the new Government wants people at home to believe is that they have the answers, that they are the masters of the economy, and that they\u2019re going to improve everything for everyone in the country. The truth is that they have been put in these positions by wealthy donors and vested interests to look after the interests of those people, especially from the ACT Party but also from Nicola Willis, the Minister of Finance, in the National Party. There is a dangerous ideology, which is the belief that letting rich people get richer is good for everyone\u2014well, obviously that\u2019s not true\u2014that implementing the failed neoliberal policies of the 1980s and 1990s will somehow make New Zealand more productive and lead to everyone being richer. But the truth is that what works for individuals to get wealthy in this current system does not work for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo when you say, for example, that we\u2019re going to reward people for being landlords\u2014which means that they do no work and they earn a return on their asset, and they don\u2019t pay tax on that\u2014everyone in the country cannot get wealthy through being landlords. I mean, think about it: can every single person in New Zealand be a landlord and get rich that way? No. Property owning is a type of rent-seeking which is not part of the productive economy, but the people opposite cannot tell the difference between what is good for them and their donors and what is good for New Zealand as a whole. They can\u2019t tell the difference, and the reality is that, if New Zealanders want to see genuine, sustained improvement in our quality of life, we need to protect our environment, we need to make sure our water is clear, we need to accurately price pollution and externalities, and we need to support people by investing in public services, by raising benefits, by limiting the growth of rents, through things like rent controls, and that will genuinely create an environment in which people have an opportunity to succeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe all do better when we share the wealth, not hoard it, and that\u2019s what the Green Party will continue to campaign for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002219053d25db114400a8dfa7d3f4870722\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219053d25db114400a8dfa7d3f4870722\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is now suspended for lunch and will resume at 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 12.59 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b163f416b0bf408b9ad58494974d4285\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5d19c7fcd024c94835741fd0e99e3f5\u0022\u003ETe Reo M\u0101ori\u2014Simultaneous Interpretation in the Chamber\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e57d847d98bd4a47b207830887ad4983\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e57d847d98bd4a47b207830887ad4983\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is resumed. The Business Committee yesterday, essentially, convened for a discussion on the use of te reo M\u0101ori in the House during oral questions. I want to reiterate the right of every member to use any official language of New Zealand in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ETo ensure that members do hear the interpretation of anybody\u2019s contribution, it was agreed at the Business Committee yesterday that the interpreters will take around about 15 to 20 seconds\u2019 pause while they begin that particular translation. I think this will assist members in using the earpieces that are currently provided. There\u2019s also some investigation going on into the quality of the earpieces we\u2019ve got. Quite clearly, moving forward, we\u2019re going to need better\u2014I see all the heads nodding; that\u2019s great. It\u2019s like being back in the classroom\u2014it\u2019s fantastic. Quite clearly, we\u2019re going to need to have a better audio system available to members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229138a41b349f491fbc51bc72ca746f11\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022085931dd06714ad097b03005bffb38bd\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022861aabde95494d8ebf468622d2d21c02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022861aabde95494d8ebf468622d2d21c02\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I present the report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled Making infrastructure investment decisions quickly. That paper is published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226122120ea7854c8b9439bb8e0295913f\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c7da767dd33b48b7a09c632346485a04\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11 to Minister, 12 December\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00220ebe0addb16844febc32814e7739a55f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ebe0addb16844febc32814e7739a55f\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Yesterday at question time, in response to a question from the Hon Willow-Jean Prime, the Minister for Children provided an answer where she stated that it was in the negative. Now, subsequently, she\u2019s come to correct that, which is great. But in a series of points of order after that answer was given, the Hon David Seymour stated that the answer that was provided was in the positive. So it\u2019s the view of the Labour Party that if the Minister has subsequently come down to correct her answer, perhaps Mr Seymour should also be asked to correct his statement, given he was speaking on behalf of the Minister\u2019s response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00227cfc61293d8d425095f99155d6a34524\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cfc61293d8d425095f99155d6a34524\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does Mr Seymour have any response to that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0daa2bee75d4746a2b5525118c4b818\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0daa2bee75d4746a2b5525118c4b818\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Minister for Regulation):\u003C/span\u003E My statement was based on the facts as I believed them at the time. It\u2019s clear from the Hansard record that those facts have changed, and people might imagine that I\u2019ve changed my view too, and it doesn\u2019t in any way invalidate the record of what I said at that time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226ce08f878a3b4b81b7d60658bccbe106\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ce08f878a3b4b81b7d60658bccbe106\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think he could do a little better than that, because, if the Minister has made a correction, perhaps, it would be a good idea to indicate to the House that you accept the correction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229362decf3132465786eb62f3587d92b7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: It would be extraordinary if I didn\u2019t. I\u2019m obliged to take all members at their word, and I certainly take the honourable Minister at her word in issuing the correction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00229740d1169fff4c74af77981a5683aa85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229740d1169fff4c74af77981a5683aa85\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a64237a17df4809be515b1b64645c5d\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220207f722977744839d11fa7a62fbeed9\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f82fb7f6e455498592937a2eeb8085cf\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00223bb1545877d94e30bfa6bf325f66723f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bb1545877d94e30bfa6bf325f66723f\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement in relation to the Paris Agreement 2030 emissions reduction targets, \u201CWe are going to meet our commitments and obligations\u201D, or does he agree with his Minister for Resources, who said yesterday that \u201CWe are not going to meet the 2030 dreamy, fairy-tale, aspirational figures\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u00223e9973296e9e4cba979f76a38c4e0e80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e9973296e9e4cba979f76a38c4e0e80\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by my statement. The Government is going to meet its obligations and commitments that it\u2019s made on climate change, and I also stand by the statement from the Minister of Resources as well, because he was clearly talking about the previous Government\u2019s 100 percent renewable electricity target, which is, actually, a fairy tale and is counter-productive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022852ded99380b4950ba8032436d0cd3db\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does his Government have any targets or policies to reduce fossil fuel use across the energy and transport industry to replace the 2030 renewable electricity target, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce64d873897d4549b33d39029c610834\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called electrifying New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022213fa4d2da6d4ddcbe4b33a4b59bae11\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, we\u2019re going to actually electrify New Zealand by doubling the amount of renewable electricity that\u2019s in New Zealand so we can make the transition well and make our sectors move to clean, green energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248f300dc5f754be1a08143cd779140db\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned about the growing contradiction, under this Government, between New Zealand\u2019s international and climate commitments and domestic plans which undermine efforts to reduce emissions, such as reopening oil and gas drilling and cancelling the Clean Car Discount?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290a7e3dba073447bacd16111693bd6bd\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely not. We are deeply committed to delivering on our climate goals and commitments. The way we go about doing that may be different from the previous Government, but don\u2019t misunderstand our commitment to the targets and goals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221daa38fe958438e84309cc262f4ffc5\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CThere is no reason for climate deniers and climate minimalists in the 21st century\u201D, and, if so, is he embarrassed by the statements of the Minister of Resources that \u201COne of the great lies about climate change is that, yes, apparently, it\u2019s a crisis.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac67f84edb6d437a85eb3609294756b0\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Climate change is a crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221db5094bb1cd4b0e878e22fb6440224f\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Climate Change Commission that \u201CWeakening action on climate policy during times of adverse economic conditions\u2014which climate change is only likely to exacerbate\u2014is not sustainable and will greatly compromise [Aotearoa New Zealand\u2019s] ability to meet [emissions budgets and the 2050 target].\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c142406b7b64a11977c2805ab4ca827\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not weakening our actions on climate change; we\u2019re just going about it a different way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221172ff81bedb47b69b1a4bee6c684a67\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a demonstrable lie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9eaf9f356914190a9e21b20ff473fa5\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he or will he not instruct all Ministers to implement the commission\u2019s advice\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b30fe2c672541149afb0d7e7014f21a\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I apologise for interrupting the member. You may not have heard, but, after the Prime Minister resumed her seat, I heard Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick say, \u201CThat\u2019s a demonstrable lie.\u201D That\u2019s quite a serious accusation to make of any member, and I wonder what your view is and how you\u2019re going to enforce such rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc3f80367854c0a8e63275c4109869b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I did not hear it from up here. If the member made a statement like that, she may consider withdrawing and apologising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237d70e05440e45ef9d04c949e9cc1c15\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, my point was that it is demonstrable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e9d4a3f6adf43b79903032f99a6a8a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I think the member should be given a chance to withdraw that, because it may well be on the Hansard audio record, and, if that\u2019s the case, then we know where this goes after that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293605824b898420497b0cf861bc65c05\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, there are all sorts of statements\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246dfa90be4e04dfcbd93a8f5c89b7526\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c72b26f57054db897d1c68bd672e682\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014on the Hansard record, including from that very Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3b171962e774093ab6eeba535130dfe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me! Start again. I\u2019ll call the member so the whole House can hear her. The Hon Marama Davidson speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255067e0d79be4590ad7e7b89455183b8\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I apologise. There are a whole range of statements on the Hansard record, and I\u2019m happy to accept clarity for what will and will be struck off Hansard records. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c1c85426f2b48e9809a1272a89590b9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That wasn\u2019t the point being made by the Rt Hon Winston Peters. However, I\u2019ve got advice here. Speakers\u2019 ruling 48/1: saying a member is lying is always out of order. So if that is what the member said and does not want to withdraw it, then that does have other consequences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221447f95fdcef40e491157284c2627e98\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I was speaking to the content of the policies, as put forward by this Government, and the fact that the content of those policies is a lie. If the inference is that, therefore, the Minister or the Prime Minister is a liar, that wasn\u2019t the statement that I was making, but I was pointing out that it is demonstrable on the evidence that the undertakings from this Government are completely contrary to our climate commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a021f7fc58e47459cebc6ef951d0919\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I think we\u2019ll move on. That is an opinion; others will make a judgment on whatever the Hansard record might eventually show.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022024f1055ead34e748e4c94a5f45362e1\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he or will he not instruct all Ministers to implement the commission\u2019s advice in their work programmes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293c08f013340405aa70aee2579ff66a7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Our Government\u2019s committed to delivering on climate change, and our Ministers are making sure that they can do that through their respective portfolios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224290be93bd74340abd36c9fbb1235e7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Can he name one decision that his Government has taken to date that will materially reduce New Zealand\u2019s net greenhouse gas emissions; if so, what is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022395f2d89fac34ac89cfb3d3c3f40fbd8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s our plan to actually increase and double the amount of renewable electricity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af2f523a5e074c52a690032d9f6116df\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We come now to\u2014[Interruption] Yeah, good\u2014nice argument across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002277ac8282194448d68540074ee6a0c6e1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022aecdc1e0969b43d6ae9f4e1f8bab7b41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aecdc1e0969b43d6ae9f4e1f8bab7b41\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd01b717b2d0479a8613039ec2838986\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd01b717b2d0479a8613039ec2838986\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and particularly the Government\u2019s statement that we will be a Government that gets things done for New Zealand. That starts with our 100-day plan, which includes a number of changes to make it easier for Kiwis to be able to get ahead, make our communities safer, and deliver better health and education for our young people. This is a Government that\u2019s got a mandate for change, and its focus is on delivery for New Zealanders, unlike the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4ac279c001049929723b3ba8d229e65\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his Government\u2019s commitment in the National-ACT agreement to \u201CReview whether the Firearms Registry is effectively improving public safety,\u201D, or does he agree with Mark Mitchell that the registry was justified, as the country, without a doubt, has an issue with licensed firearm holders going in and buying\u2014on order\u2014for people who don\u2019t have licences, mostly gang members and organised crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6d67be6f6734d6a88a2b4e93776b06f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We agree with the decision to review the gun register.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a65175675fd4e34b846d6ec3c884ed1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286d15976fdfe4c039208dde812489090\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Because we want to make sure that it is working effectively and delivering public safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022838723ba42434137b03107625a9d1087\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Has he told Mark Mitchell he\u2019s wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d9c1191f50d43d4ac0053e3a8343050\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s not wrong. We support the gun register. We want to make a review to make sure that it\u2019s working effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2cd9d9adf8740da990e4d2f7a72b67a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with David Seymour that ACT\u2019s proposal to have a debate and referendum on the Treaty\u2014\u201Cyou know, the coalition Government has agreed to go halfway with that, and then re-evaluate and perhaps proceed further, and it will actually enhance the mana of the Treaty\u201D\u2014or does he agree with Christopher Luxon that \u201Cwe will pursue a Treaty Principles Bill to select committee, and that is as far as it will go.\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022752cd490ba8d41089774642f3eddbcce\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: The position of the Government is that we will support the bill until select committee, through its first reading, and that\u2019s as far the comment goes at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d845f0777f34df5949d3c8b32ee7d98\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the point of sending a bill to a select committee that the Government intends to vote down, other than to waste thousands of hours of people\u2019s time and a lot of taxpayers\u2019 money? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbf97c96247040c1997ca12439311f69\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f84e294a91b14dcc942577881cd25284\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a democracy. And as part of our coalition agreement with National and ACT, that is our commitment that we have made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292deda6695954d6fb82ec0f683ff1baf\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is this the first example of the Government\u2019s reduction in waste\u2014that they\u2019re going to vote in favour of a bill going to select committee that they have no intention of passing into law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f7f292b5f7343af86e3cfe31d243cab\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I think it\u2019s a bit rich for that member to talk about wasteful Government spending. He led a Government that undertook so much wasteful Government spending, it drove domestic inflation, drove interest rates up, slowed our economic growth up, and put at risk employment. So, no disrespect, not taking any lectures from that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0db376c493d4961abc10aaca52b4ba0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u0022627d76d5de4d4e2381b626431c55a8d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022627d76d5de4d4e2381b626431c55a8d1\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has she received on the challenge of inflation in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d61ee557fb3946dc8a39f2cc1d615e2f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before the member answers, we need to have\u2014I know that was a loud burst; it\u2019s a technical issue\u2014a bit of quiet while people are asking questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002296b1edf60db24ee6ab5d2e4200e2ad66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296b1edf60db24ee6ab5d2e4200e2ad66\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The reports I have received confirm that inflation remains a major challenge in New Zealand, at a rate of 5.6 percent, even while inflation falls rapidly overseas. The Reserve Bank has said in their most recent Monetary Policy Statement that non-tradable inflation is easing only gradually, highlighting the challenge facing the Government and the Reserve Bank as we look to win the fight on inflation in coming months. I want to reassure New Zealanders who are struggling with the cost of living that beating inflation is this Government\u2019s top priority. Our first act in Parliament was to introduce and progress legislation returning the Reserve Bank to a single mandate, ensuring New Zealanders can have confidence that our commitment to beating inflation is rock solid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022396dd9e431d44ae9acd4b7700430e139\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: How does inflation in New Zealand compare to other countries overseas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281f0d9eca8c6450094c46e10f5b693dd\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, while inflation remains very high at home, at 5.6 percent, other countries offshore are already making significant progress. Inflation in the United States fell to just 3.1 percent overnight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6e45c29b0644ce99c93fec1c4ed3127\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s the UK going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4f569921f9e4f9e90e19e640755c59a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Inflation in Canada is also down at 3.1 percent. Mr Hipkins asks what the inflation rate is in the UK, and I can inform him it is down at 4.6 percent, so he managed to do an even worse job than the UK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f75c3cf28874068a03a0acb038556a4\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: What factors have led domestic inflation to remain so high?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f1eecd9330e4f86a65dfea1c309443a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: According to the OECD\u2019s latest economic outlook, \u201CUp until late 2023, too much weight has been put on monetary policy to reduce inflation, requiring higher interest rates\u201D, and that \u201CThe fiscal deficit is contributing to this imbalance.\u201D The incoming Government will not be able to fix in one Budget an imbalance of spending that has built up over six years. However, the outgoing Government has left us with a forecast deficit this year of $11.4 billion\u2014and that\u2019s in the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update. But we are already taking early action, as part of the 100-day plan, to end wasteful spending, and I look forward to giving many speeches on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291d09e315338420eacf0430416aab82a\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: What next steps is the Government taking to support New Zealanders with the cost of living crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcfd269479754109a3867aa4f7758da2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: We know that New Zealanders are struggling, which is why the Government is committed to delivering fiscally neutral tax relief next year. After years of watching their money squandered on wasteful projects like Lake Onslow, light rail, the Auckland bike bridge project that cost millions and went nowhere, like the TVNZ-RNZ merger, the jobs tax, the income insurance scheme, and all of the other items in the policy bonfire, our Government is committed to reducing wasteful spending and delivering income tax relief for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd46cab90851435b81b19afc2963ce48\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister of Finance as to whether or not, in her previous answer, that is the greatest disparity ever between a forecast surplus and an actual deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f8ce673f85a45058d7d9e24fcc29ad5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: What I would also highlight\u2014the member is correct to highlight\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c15a001a04b405ba240f9ec59e4d2aa\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9864e287c41474a935508b34a9bcbb7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Deputy Prime Minister is correct to highlight that the gulf between the rhetoric of a Government and the actual numbers it delivered\u2014I don\u2019t think has ever been wider. Because we had a finance Minister who repeatedly promised a return to surplus, and yet every time he arose to announce his next Budget, the surplus would mysteriously slip, slip, slip away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022930bb631266c4eedbd473b229ce4b7bb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u0022c77fa447bc7945b3a9a04eaf3ca7d1cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c77fa447bc7945b3a9a04eaf3ca7d1cf\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. K\u0101ore au i te p\u0101tai i t\u0113nei p\u0101tai i roto i te reo M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker, greetings to all of us in the House. I will not ask this question in the M\u0101ori language.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u002240f053eb6d8947db90aee493f95681ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240f053eb6d8947db90aee493f95681ad\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: Does she stand by her statement on the Government\u2019s policy to remove section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act, \u201CNothing about this change will affect the support services and programmes that Oranga Tamariki provides for M\u0101ori\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aade68a8f7844f16bc85b076eb9007b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, could we possibly just have the question? But if it is to be in M\u0101ori, can we have it in M\u0101ori\u2014but not both?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd372f41c61045a2bfcac033e374f270\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Very good. We\u2019ll have the answer from the Hon Karen Chhour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb8a9381e945413eb4b12e20aacfc3d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb8a9381e945413eb4b12e20aacfc3d0\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243813e4910ec41dab1ffc9820e8be85b\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: How can she stand by that statement when Oranga Tamariki\u2019s own public website states that section 7AA enables them to \u201Cdevelop strategic partnerships with iwi and M\u0101ori organisations, including iwi authorities\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aae9b63f90ab499a8220032a3ad4e216\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: By removing section 7AA, that will not remove the ability for the 10 strategic partnerships that are currently in place and work to be made on other strategic partnerships. I have instructed officials to continue working with iwi, hap\u016B, and wh\u0101nau when this is to the benefit of our children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd139f0e1c0a4688ab8446422e60532b\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: How can she stand by that statement when Oranga Tamariki also spell out that the section ensures \u201Cthat policies, practices and services have regard to mana tamaiti, whakapapa and whanaungatanga\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b4cd6f1638247849023aec081904ea2\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing in removing section 7AA will remove that. There are already existing provisions within the Act that protect the rights of wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi. I refer the member to sections 4, 5, and 13 of the Oranga Tamariki Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd2c7293bdba4deda17036d14eef328d\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: What is her response to iwi leaders appalled by this policy, including Waikato-Tainui chairperson Tukoroirangi Morgan, who has said that taking the section would sever iwi partnerships successfully reconnecting tamariki M\u0101ori with their whakapapa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deea8bdaa7b44105befc036e73d6abe1\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I respect what that member has to say, but nothing\u2014by removing that Act\u2014will make that happen. The only people implying that these partnerships will be affected are those from across the House, and I have instructed officials that they should continue working with iwi and M\u0101ori organisations where this is achieving positive outcomes for young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f887aa44fec84483a2dd10da8f7245f3\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Chief Children\u2019s Commissioner, Dr Claire Achmad, who said that section 7AA \u201Cmakes clear the right of mokopuna M\u0101ori be connected with and know their whakapapa. That means wherever they can be safe being in the care of their wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B and iwi.\u201D, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d13ff0a57a6f4d39b8583e4d58b0afc0\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The Oranga Tamariki Act already has provisions which protect the rights of wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi. I again refer the member to sections 4, 5, and 13 of the Oranga Tamariki Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225b67ab0f46a47e181fe406c5d3eedba\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: How can she justify this policy to wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi M\u0101ori when she knows full well that this will lead to many more tamariki M\u0101ori being severed from whakapapa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b77a319e14c940dfa344f015dede3e69\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I actually really disagree with that sentiment. Nothing with removing section 7AA from the Act removes the ability for young people to connect with their whakapapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022408d73c0d46f4b14887795b5068f4ed9\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Is she comfortable with her legacy as Minister for Children being the person who presided over another stolen generation of indigenous children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca32c1e6a906494198d0c3619d818d50\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister may answer, but that question is pretty wide of the mark and not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd3451befaa14979aeff56f5810e3034\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I am proud to stand here as the Minister for Children that represents a Government that is committed to making sure that every child in New Zealand wakes up knowing today is going to be a better day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ef25275a67834e6fad44893360efec3a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Regional Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6225274c96a4e07bbda46a4bd60a452\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6225274c96a4e07bbda46a4bd60a452\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Regional Development: What updates can he provide of any regional development investments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022b352b5e6ba7348739d46f1d1ccf2333a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b352b5e6ba7348739d46f1d1ccf2333a\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s my pleasure to announce to the House that as a consequence of a far-sighted politician six years ago making an investment, on behalf of the Government, in the Snowy River goldmine, the entirety of the $15 million has been paid back. This goldmine in Te Tai Poutini, the West Coast, enjoyed the upside of employing 50 people. Another 140 are on the way as they seek to raise $100 million\u2014a great example of central government collaborating with industry in regional New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251e0006ca82c4844b207b254c4f671ae\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: Is he confident that seabed mining will feature in regional development investments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0f73c8d911549079bbe7bf83fd8073b\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Seabed mining has a legitimate place in New Zealand\u2019s regional economy. Sadly, a number of pixie-like hap\u016B in Taranaki have sought to undermine this legitimate industry. I can assure you, though, that the Environmental Protection Authority legislation, if it needs to be changed to give certainty to investors\u2014and we will not have tikanga M\u0101ori mangled and distorted 37 kilometres off the coast of Taranaki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022521b5653959f4785b679e07b14a08ba2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before the member speaks, I\u2019ll just say that we can\u2019t, on one hand, demand a degree of decorum in the House and then bring in expressive language like that that can be a little inflammatory. The member\u2019s very good at it, there\u2019s no question about that\u2014most entertaining but not particularly helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edbd4cf3e7c1446491cc80b210d07c0a\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: How will oil and gas investments located in regional New Zealand feature in regional development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fda864c1a72b4fbabecaf3b8be5d0fa1\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I brought this document here with me today, which contains an assertion, aspirational in nature, that, by 2030, all sources of energy to maintain security of supply in regional New Zealand will be renewable. Oil and gas will play a key role, and when that legislation is changed in regional New Zealand, it will offer certainty to the investment community. And then the grown-ups will ensure that there is security and manageable risk in our energy sector, unlike what we hear from the other side of the House. I look forward to providing that educational service to other members of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002213de9ae1dc0b455fa826b285a2622a93\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00220ee7b01bd8d149cf8e520ced45753b24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ee7b01bd8d149cf8e520ced45753b24\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What is the total cost to the Government of the \u201Ctax relief\u201D outlined in the Policy Programme of the Government as expressed in the coalition agreements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdcb91fdc8d04006a7bd91b6c3290b4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdcb91fdc8d04006a7bd91b6c3290b4d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The Government stands by the commitments set out in our coalition agreements. The advice I have received on the potential fiscal impact of tax relief is obviously Budget sensitive, and I look forward to updating the House on details in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255f9d08ee78b447fa89aef4c503c88e1\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by the answers she\u2019s given in this House that she does not know what specific revenue initiatives will fund the tax relief programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d518108e475b4e5d8d40d365ea62de3d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I would have to see that comment in context to believe it is being fairly represented in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f749bc51d0d424a9acbf8d6f35757fe\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: How can she say that she will deliver fiscally neutral tax relief, when she doesn\u2019t know how much it\u2019s going to cost?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e39b5264fb4249e99310998955d69712\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Because I do know how much it\u2019s going to cost, but I am not sharing with that member the information when it is Budget sensitive. I can also be confident about delivering tax relief, because, unlike the member opposite, I actually believe New Zealanders deserve to keep more of what they earn, and they deserve a Government that won\u2019t waste their hard-earned wages on boondoggles, like he did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fa18202b5f04cab9604fa2863a9dc50\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the member changed her position on the app tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022955facc53f7249e5ae7f95dfef36416b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I am not responsible for commitments made in party manifestos.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eb54c5a0e22442bb564a5a814ac5c7e\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the National Party\u2019s position before the election was to reverse the app tax, and it is now the position of a National-led Government that it will keep the app tax in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4b1bf7c212c46b0b3b2a698d8ce1194\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I think you know what I\u2019m going to say: the Minister is not responsible for statements made by political parties before elections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4218991c6994fceaef34e50d3bd29b4\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Just like GST.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2f705ad4443442b9ae6d1893b70dd22\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014good. The member might like to try another way of asking the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290019ec2bd5446e8be0131e98628ea96\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Nicola Willis, the National Party finance spokesperson, who said that the app tax was an outrage and should be reversed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f73a1d797184bb9b9756c8122aeabd5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree with Nicola Willis. And what I also agree with Nicola Willis on is that it is time for a Government that stops tax grabbing and should start by prioritising income tax relief for working people. We have been left with fiscal constraints, by the previous Government, that are extreme, and, in that context, our priority must be letting New Zealanders keep more of what they earn with personal income tax relief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292fbaeb7911c44bdb67144c98e6bd685\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, that she agrees that the app tax was outrageous and should be reversed\u2014she agrees with Nicola Willis on that\u2014how can she continue to be the Minister of Finance in a Government that is now imposing the app tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022502215be24c54c3ca30559136f869951\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I agreed with the statements of Nicola Willis in the context in which they were given. As the Minister of Finance, I am responsible for the policy commitments of our Government and its decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4f4b41f5f8940cfb723f8c176c3edf7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec215d1e4ab445f68cdb6a050114b9f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec215d1e4ab445f68cdb6a050114b9f9\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What actions is he taking to repeal the Clean Car Discount scheme by 31 December?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00228ad6fd47f3cf4f10a7208402ed680985\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ad6fd47f3cf4f10a7208402ed680985\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Our coalition Government committed to axing the ute tax and Clean Car Discount scheme by 31 December, providing assurance to hard-working New Zealanders that they can purchase the vehicles that they need without being unfairly penalised; and ending what is a fiscally unsustainable scheme. Yesterday, I introduced legislation to the House to axe the ute tax by 31 December and deliver on this commitment. This means that charges will end for vehicles after 11.59 p.m. on 31 December 2023, and buyers of low-emitting vehicles will no longer be able to apply for rebates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1a78b08dd6740d29ad474e82ecb5263\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Why are these actions being taken? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221576428213cc4a0aa4b46d3d1142d54c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Stop there. Sorry. Far too much talk while people are asking a question. Please ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243b893b7bee146b5b4a4eb93f7ca1046\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Why are these actions being taken?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8f514422282485b8ffeaa406bcac495\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: A very good question. The previous Government promised the scheme would be \u201Cfiscally neutral\u201D, but, as at 30 November, $579 million has been paid out in rebates and $13.5 million has been spent on administration costs, while only $290 million has been received in charges. This has left taxpayers footing the bill for an eye-watering $302.5 million deficit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ca3daa9946044ee8f94c9b686736aa0\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: What subsidies have been paid out under the scheme with this $302.5 million deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226943c8d26c5243efa7c04e9094e087ee\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the $302.5 million deficit hitting taxpayers\u2019 pockets has contributed to thousands of subsidies to high-end vehicles costing $70,000 or more. In the last 18 months alone, over $122 million has been paid out to those buying high-end vehicles under this scheme. Our Government does not believe that taxpayers should be subsidising those who can already afford to purchase these vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d509f4904917477d91eb600d5e4a4064\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has he seen on the financial sustainability of the scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2069a569b214d5dad366ff5e05366da\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, advice I have received shows the Clean Car Discount scheme will not survive past mid-2024 without substantial changes to how it operates. Continuing the scheme would likely require a combination of lowering and restricting rebates to electric vehicles; increasing charges and applying them to all petrol, diesel, and some hybrids; or providing more Crown funding. This will only worsen equity issues and could result in taxpayers footing an even bigger bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae1c26d3d40b400ea3c798ad15c31991\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022333f54cbb72647418c67ee345fbd4bd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022333f54cbb72647418c67ee345fbd4bd8\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: Does she stand by all her statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022050ef4098972477f80c46159237974e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022050ef4098972477f80c46159237974e6\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb89931d065a48dbab0c1f6585cf31a7\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister said that section 7AA creates a fundamental conflict between protecting the best interests of children, on the one hand, and honouring the Treaty, on the other; what is the conflict?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219822b229d504b429af8a2277c4d561e\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: From what I\u2019ve been hearing from community organisations and groups, and also hearing from news articles around the issues with section 7AA, the intent behind honouring what the Treaty means is not clear. It depends on how someone interprets what honouring the Treaty means. And so that creates a conflict, because, when decisions are being made, the decisions may vary on the interpretation of what honouring the Treaty means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ad73816e55e4c7abcfac79f6a645eca\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Does she still maintain there is a conflict, when section 4A says, \u201CIn all matters relating to the administration or application of this Act (other than Parts 4 and 5 and sections 351 to 360), the well-being and best interests of the child or young person are the first and paramount consideration, having regard to the principles set out in sections 5 and 13\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c2e72774e0b4c719a5f13837bb70619\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: This change is about helping provide clarity of focus to social workers to any decisions they make around removals and placements, and there are already provisions in the Act that provide rights to wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B and iwi. I refer this member to sections 4, 5, and 13 of the Oranga Tamariki Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217794b19088a4aefb40ac9bc1557d12d\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that before the introduction of the bill, she will meet with the strategic M\u0101ori partners: Eastern Bay of Plenty Iwi Provider Alliance, M\u0101ori Women\u2019s Welfare League partnership, Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu partnership, Ng\u0101i Tahu partnership, Waikato-Tainui partnership, T\u016Bhoe partnership, Ng\u0101puhi partnership, Ng\u0101ti Toa Rangatira and Te \u0100ti Awa partnership, and Te Kahu Oranga partnership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022207e432bd95549f3a12baaa7a4de6c69\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I have asked for advice on how I can organise to meet with these groups that have committed partnership agreements, and if my calendar has the space to do this, I will do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcf765d3616f4f90ae15c0a82ab52373\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say, no noise over here either [Gestures to Government side] when there is a question being asked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214801328c43e453da96a7e18dbe711f7\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: In light of her response to question No. 4, that she is proud, how can she possibly feel proud to condemn future generations of M\u0101ori tamariki to be alienated from their whakapapa, language, and culture?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f6c766642414684bac6cb3bb44bfe2e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Minister might like to make an attempt to answer that question\u2014you\u2019re making a big supposition there which is a little outside of it. Let\u2019s see what we can get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac40d823aaf846649d898d1f2b48cbfb\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I am very proud to stand here and be the Minister for Children and to make sure that I am putting things in place to make the lives of children in New Zealand better. Nothing I have ever said or done implies that I want to destroy M\u0101ori heritage, whakapapa, or anything to do with M\u0101ori ethnicity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d752e294e914061890f8930c22f5c40\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister to be careful of when she sees these M\u0101ori groups, because the last Minister in her place who did that ended up voting for another political party, not Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225374ba8280d464d9879f83359566e61\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Very good. Thank you for the advice\u2014I\u2019m sure the whole House will take that on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022932f14253293496a956fb535b4d038e1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00229ab0c14d74e64b4a84014086f6b3dfe1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ab0c14d74e64b4a84014086f6b3dfe1\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What is the Government doing to improve literacy and numeracy achievement in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a18fe029058e4f859bcd19a45ec187e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a18fe029058e4f859bcd19a45ec187e5\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, the Education Bulletin was sent out to the education sector, indicating the Government\u2019s intention to implement the hour a day policy into New Zealand schools. Improving outcomes in reading, writing, and maths is a priority for this Government, so I have asked schools with students in years 0 to 8 to spend an average of an hour a day teaching reading, writing, and maths. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270720909f5184f91859a054e42bb724a\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it important that children spend an hour a day on each of these subjects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286cd2b45bb9f46d391644fdc2a58efe1\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Reading, writing, and maths are fundamental skills that unlock the rest of the curriculum. In a 2021 report into the teaching of mathematics in New Zealand, the Royal Society found significant variation amongst schools in terms of the amount of time devoted to teaching maths, with some teachers scheduling maths for as much as seven hours a week, while others teach it for fewer than three. It was their recommendation, in that report, to introduce an hour a day of mathematics. The previous Government ignored those recommendations. But this Government will be introducing an hour a day to see all children, across New Zealand, getting consistent, high-quality education that they deserve, and this is just the first step.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274d13ae5004d446cbcadfaebfbefb82a\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What results has the Minister seen to indicate that this change is necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218023e83ab274fbb82b3820c24b34743\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The 2022 Programme for International Student Assessment results show a significant decline in the performance of 15-year-old students in maths, compared to 2018, and confirms the long-term trend of declining achievement in core subjects since 2000. The 2022 national monitoring study showed that only 41.5 percent of our year 8s were at curriculum for maths after eight years of schooling. These results show us that our education system has continued to deliver poor outcomes for learners. But our Government has a plan to turn this around. Our Teaching the Basics Brilliantly policy, which includes an hour a day, builds an important foundation to ensure young people receive the high-quality education they deserve and allows them to live the life that they want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022073a5b37ff01421abfd1de9b1e73b99f\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Minister know how frequently reading, writing, and maths is currently being taught in classrooms, given the acknowledgment, in the Ministry of Education bulletin to school principals yesterday, that many of them were already doing that and little change was needed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f73ed8c46f64fc9802889ec0ffba98e\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: If the member opposite had been listening to my previous answer, she would have heard the fact that the Government\u2019s own report that they commissioned in 2021 stated that there was a wide variation between schools in the teaching of mathematics, with some only teaching it for three hours a day. We acknowledge that many schools already do this, but there is some variability, and we want to make sure it is consistent across the sector. And I suggest that the member, next time, listens more carefully to my answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227d8378ff4dd42b6a1a49c22f2689c53\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What will an hour a day look like in practice in the classroom?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a9e320c33694bb5b065361232b83c29\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in the Education Bulletin that went out this week, we know that many schools already do an hour a day of reading, writing, and maths. But it is our intention to ensure that this great practice is happening consistently across the sector in New Zealand. We expect that these hours take place across the entire school day and throughout the curriculum. This will include explicit teaching, collaborative learning, activities, games, and all the other best-practice techniques teachers use to engage and develop young people\u2019s skills. But, rest assured, it is our expectation that our young people are getting access to an hour of reading, writing, and mathematics every day, across the whole country, in every classroom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002204238813314b41f8ae3bc19faddb4cb9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002258fc3b4523f6421f851e930dd82af520\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258fc3b4523f6421f851e930dd82af520\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What communication, if any, has he had with the Ministry of Transport and Waka Kotahi NZ Transport Agency regarding the role transport will play in reducing climate emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a69730481e5a458abbd6a510ff56bf8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a69730481e5a458abbd6a510ff56bf8a\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The Ministry of Transport and the New Zealand Transport Agency\u2019s briefings to the incoming Minister covered key transport issues, including the role transport can play in the reduction of emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229823c03ca3ef4f40b61620b4817db520\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Has he instructed the leadership of Waka Kotahi and the Ministry of Transport that transport will have little to no role in emissions reduction this term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236b66a47b63046979a9b6ed4be9f23af\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I have written to the New Zealand Transport Agency to ask them to stop work on the prior Government\u2019s vehicle kilometres travelled reduction work programme, which was simply writing reports rather than actually delivering infrastructure. Our approach will be actually delivering infrastructure, while the last Government was all about writing reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022134bbe0215f34e85a1e6a41c378ccf8d\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I appreciate the answer. I did ask a very specific question about whether he had spoken to the leadership of the transport agency and the Ministry of Transport and said that transport will have little to no role in emissions reduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6a4ee109ccc4c48941b0443a1939bdf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s a bit novel to appreciate the answer and then criticise it, but the Hon Simeon Brown may like to repeat what he\u2019s already said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229552201485854195b2f3e4ff52377506\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, as I said in my answer, I have written to the chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency in relation to the work around vehicle kilometres travelled, which was funded from the Climate Emergency Response Fund, and as I mentioned earlier\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ac880a74f7e4f36a005270fab32d9cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good, that\u2019s it\u2014that clarifies that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9faba14fa9d4618ae54c8d51a7ed501\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Is he committed to achieving the transport emissions reductions targets, and, if so, how does he intend to achieve them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d283b5baa41c4581a93c65f6fdea334b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and I have received advice that transport is expected to achieve the first emissions budget period, 2022-2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bab701dd2ae3433e87d01393fbde1887\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept the advice from the Climate Change Commission on transport emissions that the need for decisive Government action is immediate, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b84f18d512814621a663f00f8882efa1\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve asked for advice in relation to the climate report which was released yesterday, but I would say that our Government\u2019s approach will be actually on building infrastructure rather than wasting hundreds of millions of dollars on endless reports, business cases, and actually not delivering anything, which was the past Government\u2019s approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227812a40d181e4b71a2040e2f1cbac724\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bdcd99e4d47428c825be8036c2bf841\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, the Minister referred to the briefing to the incoming Minister in his response to the primary question. It\u2019s understood that, in that case, he will be required to table the document. Will the Minister be tabling that document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203fe6c1b2e5b4299b2c23b1a89f9a9b1\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, well, that would be true if the Minister was quoting from it, which he wasn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3e9914e45c245028a3c1ab1075849cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is the rule. So, the Hon Julie Anne Genter, you\u2019ve got another question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7d55de884d64dabaaba2f49b4348a30\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept the advice from the Climate Change Commission, released yesterday, in relation to low-emissions and zero-emissions vehicles, that \u201CSupports to address the upfront cost barrier are especially important.\u201D, and, if so, will he implement a price incentive for zero-emissions vehicles to replace the Clean Car Discount?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4c5771ac32c43ccbc797d2bf9356011\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: No, we\u2019re not going to continue to waste hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers\u2019 money to subsidise wealthy New Zealanders to be able to buy electric vehicles they can already purchase. Instead, we will invest in supercharging the electric vehicle charging network, which is a priority under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022518a06d24dd643f1a5dba96015479049\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00227f8e9053c9c04fdc91a9751ad1549625\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f8e9053c9c04fdc91a9751ad1549625\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does he stand by the statement made by the National Party Police Spokesman, the Hon Mark Mitchell, that \u201Can additional 300 police officers over four years \u2026 takes us from a ratio of 480 to 470 to 1\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022631ad3387234440883e923a0a83a71a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022631ad3387234440883e923a0a83a71a4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Sorry, to the member\u2014I should have stopped her before she asked her question. We\u2019re surprised, on the Government benches, that this question has been accepted as a primary question. The Minister is not responsible\u2014is not able to stand by statements made by National Party spokespeople. I can\u2019t remember the exact question earlier on, but you yourself accepted, in response to a previous supplementary and point of order exchange, that Ministers are responsible for statements as Ministers, and they\u2019re not able to stand by statements; I think it was the question of Mr Robertson and the Minister of Finance around political party statements. So we are slightly surprised that this question was accepted as a primary question on notice. It could have been worded differently, but, in the way it\u2019s worded currently, the Minister is being asked to stand behind a statement made by a political party spokesperson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00221254f72c50f442168e72b82a1d0035de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221254f72c50f442168e72b82a1d0035de\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad4eb3f21b854522bb20b4c50856d735\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, away you go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275704bc67efb4f6586d32785b903d325\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: This has gone through a process, and I understand that it has been amended in order to fit within the rules, and it is indeed consistent with supplementary questions which have been allowed already in this question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaf56046135f409ea790ad110a368f07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaf56046135f409ea790ad110a368f07\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, the question itself has been modified from what was first brought to the Clerks and\u2014actually, now that I look at it, it\u2019s not modified the way it was meant to be modified. I think, if I look at another sheet to make sure that I\u2019m looking at the right one\u2014OK. The point, I think, here, is that the answer to it could well be the suggestion just made by the Leader of the House. So the question is on the sheet. The question will stand. I\u2019ll call the Hon Mark Mitchell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbd06d545b7b4819895fb7313849d2c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbd06d545b7b4819895fb7313849d2c0\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Well, as incoming Minister, I was advised that the previous Government had failed to complete work on the ratio announced and had, in fact, severely underfunded it. I\u2019m committed to the additional 500 police officers agreed in our coalition agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c45f838648d74abcb61316d3bce7d975\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Will he guarantee the 1:480 police to population ratio?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022508fd3fa60a6450ca5b59ed326d86c62\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is not the coalition\u2019s policy; that is the failed, outgoing Government\u2019s policy. Our policy is to commit to an additional 500 police officers on top of the 1,800 police officers that New Zealand First delivered\u2014New Zealand First and National, in this coalition Government, will now deliver 2,300 additional police officers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022107203492d94413fbcc3af6a219dd0fe\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government have any policy on police to population ratio?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb21b86897cc4b84bbe812e9d1e349a0\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the outgoing Government had a shambolic policy in relation to police to public ratio. The coalition Government has got a very clear and concise policy. We are going to add an additional 500 police officers to the front-line police numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250395ddeda4f4facb7484a7acf23afc3\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I don\u2019t think that question was actually addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220be205c675ec4b0e90e9848a72e81fd6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, say that again. There was noise over here from your colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fd5a1bc8dea48e0acccf3064b06f73d\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d like a point of order. That supplementary question was not addressed by the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c798365a089e46d5b0e6e598715c1760\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in what way was it not addressed? You\u2019re not always going to get an answer that is totally satisfactory to the question being asked. That\u2019s a long-established factor here. Ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240dd58c5f27540b39a2fb1de9e97a679\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government have any policy on police to population ratio?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2c0179da4324519affcdf3cd55cada2\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the Government\u2019s policy and commitment as a coalition is very clear. We are going to add\u2014net\u2014an additional 500 front-line police officers during the term of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ecdb15ee731480f861bd73354f72cdb\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the comment of Christopher Luxon that the funding for additional police comes out of future operating allowances, $124 million over four years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022518d6c3f074b48b9b02750efa9bef95d\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the reality is that the books were a shambles under the previous Government. So we\u2019ve got quite a bit of work to do. The previous Government already underfunded the policy around the 1:480 numbers. So we\u2019ve made a commitment to the 500 and we will come through with that commitment. But, believe me, we\u2019ve got a lot of work to do to tidy up the mess that that Government made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d668d5264314cad8fc9b51ca407c3ed\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I respect the ruling that you made before, around whether or not you can expect a particular answer. That question was actually about the source. We can have a debate about the amount, which the member had done several times in earlier questions, but that was a question about the source of the funding, and it wasn\u2019t addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdf2271914a04cb98ef54da5564c33f4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the police Minister will, obviously, make submissions to the finance Minister, as the member will well know the process to be. Where the funding comes from is not a specific bucket, as the member might like to convey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220563d469d3e421b9a560d5b3035340e\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Should we ask you the questions, because this is a better answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263a3b301dcb44b72a10f073c1cfa5a5e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I know\u2014well, I could easily agree with you on that, but that\u2019s not where we\u2019re at. The point is that the Minister has answered the way a Minister should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288f146e218374308a0c42dbf4a1aa148\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: No, he hasn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270958f25e3664ded86fffa2fe18c4a4e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that might be your opinion; it\u2019s not mine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8453549d41c4c4498e0ade6e97904f9\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Will he guarantee there\u2019ll be no cuts or reprioritisation to the police budget in order to deliver 500 extra police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aef5c9cc0194410ae7dbb9191a24332\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, I\u2019ll make that guarantee. This Government is committed to supporting our front line, because it appears not only were they a soft on crime Government; they\u2019re a soft on crime Opposition as well. We are committed to supporting our front line. It is a coalition commitment that we will deliver 500 front-line police officers and we will do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002250de8c9c103f4c49a75ca3326cace91b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u00227654a403f1b94fa7bf84d20c846462c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227654a403f1b94fa7bf84d20c846462c3\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What reports has she seen on the jobseeker support benefit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2fd40cfcb3445baa51f082ee8f11a2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2fd40cfcb3445baa51f082ee8f11a2d\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E According to the latest benefit numbers released by the Ministry of Social Development in November, there are currently 182,340 people on jobseeker support. This is an increase of over 11,000 people this year alone. In total, there were 61,614 more people receiving the jobseeker support benefit during Labour\u2019s time in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293250522216b473d938753312f797dd0\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: What have the labour market conditions been over the past two years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb999113b722480591a0843cfada24fa\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Over the past two years, the employment market has been one of the tightest in recent memory, with employers everywhere crying out for staff. However, this opportunity was squandered by the previous Government, and, unfortunately, this has led to an increase of over 60,000 people on the jobseeker benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bba571330c664e74bb6bf30d1de0dc80\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: When is the jobseeker support benefit expected to peak?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022263410f49b2542fe8966b617fe6d6a80\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The tough economic conditions that our Government has inherited mean that the number of people on the jobseeker benefit is expected to keep rising until January 2025. The latest figures, released in the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update, forecast the number will increase to 197,400 New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f740cc940aee4e7d8ce7f9319d93d1c3\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: How does the proportion of working-age New Zealanders on jobseeker benefit now compare to the same period of time post - global financial crisis under the National Government\u2019s watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022245233b180784a22a426d821f681e1e8\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: What is relevant today is the increase in number that that Government, when they were in charge for six years, oversaw; a massive increase in the number of people on the jobseeker benefit. When the unemployment rate was low, nearly 3 percent higher were on the jobseeker support benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220bc13c05bd64db5a9ccbc6dfb9a957a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was actually relatively specific. If the Minister doesn\u2019t know, she can simply say \u201CI don\u2019t know\u201D, but it\u2019s not an open invitation to attack the person asking the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220795e7ac81aa4b1a938e0614c6bc4515\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it may not be, but, remember, too, in discussions we\u2019ve actually quite recently had, where there is a clear political point being made in a supplementary question\u2014which I think it was, in that case\u2014then it\u2019s reasonable that you\u2019re going to get a different type of answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a5a98e404904703bfa090e305e60478\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. There was absolutely no political statement in there. It was asking the Minister to compare one period of time with another period of time. What was the political statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3fdd4cecbd54331a7c8e552c44cb753\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I took it that by the member asking firstly a primary about the\u2014the primary relates to what reports has she seen on jobseeker support benefit, and then it morphed into what\u2019s different to what was happening six years ago. I think there was a point trying to be made. However, in good faith, let\u2019s have Carmel Sepuloni ask another question\u2014might be a similar one\u2014and see what the Hon Louise Upston can say in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224167095a8f564f879120512ad67f111e\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll ask a different one. How many of the 180,000 New Zealanders on main benefit now, are on benefit because they have a health condition or disability?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbdc18d430c3421b8605dc11fcd10fa1\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I think that member is getting her numbers mixed up. The 182,000 are on the jobseeker benefit. That is not the total number on main benefit\u2014that is a lot higher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c002c31deb14f8a8318a507440e34ac\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Chris Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c0e23c77c564d8f983d5793b4f9c50b\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Were you going to call the end of question time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cc6cb92104244f281e08569da6adfd6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I was going to take Joseph Mooney, who was on his feet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d61aa536c324125b8e0d4bf8cbd1107\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK. I was going to wait until the end of question time. I\u2019ll do it now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f14de047caca4a4ab12f9a9f0713a6f1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, we can wait until the end of question time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201412a40ba634cf9a13c26697b509590\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: How many more young people were on jobseeker benefit under the Labour Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3234194d8a149dbaa4949b709d59ebb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the question\u2019s out. Sorry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a6004d767e54238a11c9a23ca7c67b1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8d4ae1a53064b4cb56929b0a9c232d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8d4ae1a53064b4cb56929b0a9c232d3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Just before we move on, I wanted to ask you, sir, to just reflect on question No. 11 and the primary wording of that. If it is now the practice that Ministers can be asked to stand by statements made by spokespeople in Opposition or in other roles, that will significantly widen the potential ambit of questions to Ministers. That would be quite a change to the way question time has worked. So we let question No. 11 go, and, you know, it was fine. It is what it is. But I think it would be helpful if you would maybe reflect on that and provide some clarity for the whole House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cb17bcc183d402fb5c37a89752e5fe4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think I should also be absolutely certain that any adjustments that are made to questions are reflected in the sheet. The words \u201Cstand by the statement\u201D could well have been \u201Cagree with\u201D, in which case it would have brought it totally in order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022604128b142964d44bf54b697a80e6ebd\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002250ca349d0062461481556b33caa73126\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000626\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022f04b880eb3ca42a7892226a9dd0e3ccc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f04b880eb3ca42a7892226a9dd0e3ccc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We come now to the resumption of the Address in Reply debate\u2014sorry, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill. Is some honourable member taking a call? Oh, sorry. The Hon Barbara Edmonds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00224756514bd19c4e42a3c8b945b869a671\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224756514bd19c4e42a3c8b945b869a671\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Sorry about that. You can understand with the noise as people are leaving the Chamber, it\u2019s possibly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dac3cabc6f74777a2114231c8018ea3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with you; it\u2019s very inconsiderate\u2014very inconsiderate\u2014and your time will start from now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5917de494d94ade97b09f6cf4c0e61a\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It has been a very interesting 24 hours in the House since it went into urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f4bbecb811d43d299e88ab055cad387\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, can I just interrupt the member, and she will be able to start again. Members who are leaving the House, leave as quietly as possible and don\u2019t engage in discussions on the way out the door. So would members, please, in an orderly fashion, resume seats or quietly leave the House. One more time\u2014the Hon Barbara Edmonds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c17caa6ecd1e46c28210471eab1cfd9b\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank you very much for the opportunity to stand and to be able to take a call on the Reserve Bank bill that\u2019s currently before the House. It\u2019s been an interesting 24 hours under urgency that we\u2019ve had in the House. It\u2019s also been incredibly disappointing for a number of members here in the Opposition, who, because we did not have a select committee process, did table a number of amendments to try and be able to provide the robust analysis of the bill, given that we couldn\u2019t have a select committee, we couldn\u2019t call for submissions. We also had members from this side of the House who had actually proactively contacted other people who had submitted on the previous bill when it was changed in 2019 and then enacted in 2021, asking those submitters whether they had any particular responses to the current mandate by the Government to, basically, remove the dual mandate and to return to one mandate, which us on this side of the House believe takes us back to 1989.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EIt takes us back to 1989, which is a time where for some of us on this side of the House, we were probably just in primary school. Dead Poets Society was released, I understand, that movie. Ghostbusters II was also released at that time. And there\u2019s a lot of ghost-bustering and myth-bustering that we\u2019ve been having to do over this side of the House in the last 24 hours to be able to provide some scrutiny and accountability and to hold this Government to account. One of the biggest mythbusters and ghostbusters that we\u2019ve had to try and really push from this Minister of Finance is actually asking the Minister what evidence base does she have or does she hold in order to make such a change? We had absolutely no response to that. She could not provide evidence of the advice that she had received from her officials to absolutely and emphatically support her view that the Reserve Bank mandate should go back to one mandate, which is in relation to price stability. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe Minister at the time also referenced a letter that she had received from the Reserve Bank Governor which apparently supports her view, or the Reserve Bank Governor will work towards supporting the view, of going back to one mandate. But a number of our members on the Opposition had asked a very clear question and asked the Minister to table, then, her letter to the Reserve Bank Governor. We\u2019d asked for that letter because what we want to know is, actually, what did she ask the Reserve Bank Governor? Because, actually, as the Minister was\u2014she was a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and a number of times we had the Reserve Bank Governor, Adrian Orr, come to our select committee and confirm that, even though there were two mandates, in practice, there was a form of hierarchy and the remit which then follows on from the objectives of the Act also reaffirms that there was, in some form, a hierarchy. However, the Reserve Bank Governor also confirmed that he could work within the two mandates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo we go back to the evidence base, and, again, there was no evidence-based policy, and that is incredibly disappointing from this side of the House because if we look at, actually, what is the evidence that we have on hand, the evidence shows that there is no relationship between a country\u2019s inflation trajectory and its central bank mandate over the past two years. I\u2019ve talked in the House early in the committee stage around some of the Treasury reports that were part of the regulatory impact statement which actually set out that there are really quite global issues at hand and that stability is needed. That confirmed that inflation has been a global challenge, which means that what we should do, then, is look to the evidence about how New Zealand compares and our experience against other wealthy OECD countries. On the logic of this new Government, which, again, was not evidence-based, but on their logic, inflation, therefore, should be higher in countries with a dual mandate central bank, and therefore lower in countries with a single mandate central bank. Unfortunately\u2014unfortunately\u2014the evidence stacks up that for this new Government no such relationship exists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo, again, we\u2019ve heard time and time again in the last 24 hours, this side of the House questioning the Minister: show us how this single mandate central bank will bring down inflation. But, you know, you look at New Zealand and Australia, we both have a central bank with dual mandates\u2014inflation peaked at 7.2 percent and 7.8 percent for Australia. But in the UK, which has a central bank with a primary price stability mandate, inflation peaked at 11.1 percent. I want to address something that the Minister had said in the House during question time: she said that inflation was around 4.4 percent. That is actually the amount that it has dropped, so it\u2019s still high. They have one mandate, and their inflation rate is still high. In the eurozone, which has a central bank with a primary price stability mandate, it peaked at 10.6 percent, and in Sweden, which has a central bank with a primary price stability mandate, it peaked at 12.3 percent. So, additionally, almost all wealthy OECD economies have experienced a similar inflationary trajectory, regardless of the central banks\u2019 monetary policy mandate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe question this then begs for us is: so what is the relationship between the speed at which central banks have responded to rising inflation, and their monetary policy mandate? We found the evidence\u2014and The Reserve Bank is only second to the Norwegian central bank in hiking interest rates in 2021. I know this is perhaps a lot of technical jargon and a lot of interest rates and a lot of macro- and microeconomics for 3 o\u2019clock in the House, but the reason why I bring this up is because the Government, time and time again, over the course of the last four weeks, has been saying they want to do evidence-based policy. This is clearly not evidence-based policy, because the Minister failed to prove to the House that she had the evidence to back that if you went down to a single mandate, it provides a laser-sharp focus on inflation without basically showing how the inflation is going to change, because, actually, again, look to Australia, look to New Zealand, where we have a dual mandate, we have seen that inflation is lower compared to those that have had one mandate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EBut a number of times in the House\u2014and this is the reason why I\u2019m quite disappointed\u2014last week, I spoke here about the vision that was lacking in the Speech from the Throne and from this Government. But, actually, it\u2019s been really, really clear what the vision is for this Government, and it\u2019s been really clear in the last 24 hours, given that this is their very first bill that they put on the table. This is the very first bill that they decide to put under urgency, not calling for submissions, not allowing the Opposition to scrutinise it through a select committee process. It shows that their vision is not for workers, because both this bill and the very next bill that is on the Order Paper, which looks to repeal fair pay agreements\u2014and there were hundreds of people outside today who were protesting that\u2014show that the vision of this Government is not to support workers and that, actually, by changing those economic parameters, by having one mandate, it doesn\u2019t matter for them how much official cash rate (OCR) rates hike, it doesn\u2019t matter the job losses, which I find incredibly contradictory, to which the Minister of Social Development just stood up and answered a question in the House about. I find it incredibly contradictory that we\u2019re not going to pay attention to trying to keep a maximum sustainable employment for the people of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EAgain, there are going to be remits that come from this but as we showed through the committee of the whole House stage, it didn\u2019t matter how much we were trying to get that assurance of flexibility, there wasn\u2019t any flexibility, because you go back to the one mandate, and very much the evidence-appointed policy, or the most recent case that you can think of is you go back to 2014 when the Reserve Bank Governor had the one mandate and even though inflation was relatively low in comparison to what we have today at 3.5 percent inflation, that Reserve Bank Governor still decided to increase the OCR at a time when unemployment was over 5 percent. You can understand what happens after that. Basically, it\u2019s going to be the working people\u2014those who are going to be unemployed\u2014that are going to be paying for this policy change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EIt gives me a great disheartenment to stand here in the House today to, basically, once again understand that the vision of this new Government is not to support workers, is not to support those who are employed in salary and wages\u2014and, again, the next bill that\u2019s coming through the House, again under urgency, with no ability to be able to scrutinise it with the public, once again shows how deaf that side of the House is to the hundreds of people who stood outside and protested, who were workers. That\u2019s exactly what this bill does. This says to those workers, \u201CYou are no longer important, it\u2019s just about increasing the interest rates, and we don\u2019t care for you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u002204a3e1516411453f81504bf09470cd1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204a3e1516411453f81504bf09470cd1a\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I support the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill because it is time to bring back aspiration, bring back confidence, and bring back economic stability. It\u2019s time to strengthen our economy and reduce the cost of living, and it\u2019s time to get on top of inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThis bill is the first step towards reducing the cost of living crisis for hard-working New Zealanders. On this side of the House, we care about the fact that people are struggling, we care that businesses are struggling, and we care about our damaged economy. Because we care and because we want to support hard-working New Zealanders to get ahead, we are going to repair this economy. Let\u2019s give some optimism to businesses. Let\u2019s put some confidence back in our primary sector, with our farmers and our growers, so we can create employment and opportunity, so we can bring down inflation, so we can provide relief for many families out there struggling, who are wondering how they\u2019re going to pay their grocery bill, their rent, their mortgage, their petrol for the week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThis struggle is real, and this Government is getting real by focusing the Reserve Bank solely on controlling inflation. Our economy is driven by agriculture, but our farmers are dealing with the highest inflation in 40 years. Our food producers and exporters are facing tough times. They aren\u2019t growing and creating the jobs that we so desperately need. Without aspiration, without confidence, and without the wheels moving in our economy, we are letting down the people of our country. This bill is a move to a better future for many Kiwis who are doing it tough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThis bill is a solid start to tackling inflation and reducing the cost of living for everyday Kiwis and businesses. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbf4b4ea0eab4bef828879e497f69fb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbf4b4ea0eab4bef828879e497f69fb8\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. To allow the Reserve Bank of New Zealand to fully focus on achieving and maintaining price stability in our economy, this bill removes the maximum sustainable employment objectives. This move was strongly campaigned on during our most recent general election, and because we sit on this side of the House, one could say that the majority of those who voted agreed with the move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EThis bill is the first order of business for this National-led coalition Government and demonstrates the importance and priority we place on getting our economy under control. This bill provides the much-needed relief to all from the cost of living pressures each and every one of us are exposed to\u2014and when I say each and every one of us, I mean just that. I don\u2019t buy into the rhetoric that exudes out of the Opposition members conveying that this bill will result in worse outcomes for M\u0101ori and Pasifika communities. I don\u2019t see it as a cause of mass unemployment like they say. In fact, I strongly believe that this bill will deliver exactly the opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EBusinesses have struggled right throughout this high inflation era, with numerous having to cut jobs or, even worse, close down completely, all due to the challenging economic climate that has existed over at least the last few years. No one wants to see this outcome, especially when these unemployed people still have to pay their bills. Abating the escalation of food prices, petrol prices, insurance costs, rates, rents, or even the very heavy burden of increasing interest rates for home mortgages is so critical in easing the challenges for hard-working Kiwis right across the whole of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EPersistently high inflation is the tyranny of any country. We must do all we can to get inflation under control. It makes absolute sense for the Reserve Bank to have one focus and one focus only. By returning to a single objective, the task of the monetary policy committee is clearer, it is simpler, and therefore more likely to be met. Having a single mandate also allows it to be more easily determined when the monetary policy committee has, or indeed has not, fulfilled its primary function. Let\u2019s get it so that the Reserve Bank of New Zealand has a singular clarity of purpose\u2014a purpose that will ultimately deliver far better outcomes than what we\u2019re currently experiencing, a purpose that will drive a strong economy, a purpose that will ease the cost of living, and a purpose that will deliver the future we all aspire to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EI stand and speak to this item with hope, enthusiasm, and optimism, and it gives me great pleasure to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcb0ff24460d48abaea58447f960e6cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcb0ff24460d48abaea58447f960e6cc\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E There has been a lot of talk about this bill over the hours that this bill has been rushed through, and there have been a number of questions that have been put up. But I return to some comments I made in I think it was the first reading of this bill last night, which was that this is the first piece of legislation that this Government has brought to this House as part of a package of three bills that the Government is bringing to pass under urgency, which, in many ways, is symbolic and defines the kinds of priorities that this Government is putting forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn this bill, we see a Government that is removing the focus on jobs. The second piece of legislation we\u2019re about to move on will see a Government that is removing the focus on the wages of ordinary New Zealanders, and, to complete their trifecta of things they are undoing, after that we\u2019ll see a Government that is removing the focus on real action on climate. So what we\u2019re seeing is that we have a Government that does not want to focus on people, their wages, their job security, and making sure we are securing our future through real climate action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI compare that to what our Government did in our 100-day plan, the first package of legislation that we brought to this House. We brought in a healthy homes guarantee, we brought in a winter energy payment, we brought in a Best Start payment, and we extended paid parental leave. In this package of repeals that we are seeing from the current Government, what we are seeing is a Government that only wants to take New Zealand backwards, a Government that has no vision, and a Government that certainly does not have a focus on jobs or wages or climate action. That is writ large for the New Zealand public to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, one of the things with this bill that we\u2019ve seen is that the Minister of Finance knows that this is not actually going to achieve that much. So when I hear some of those new members of Parliament saying that this is how they\u2019re going to crack down on inflation, they\u2019re going to be sorely let down. Although I think there have been a lot of promises made\u2014and during the course of this debate, the Minister of Finance, at one point, did say that she was going to eliminate inflation, and we might set that as a KPI for the success of this Government, since it\u2019s been claimed in the House\u2014the reality is, and all the experts agree, that this amendment bill will do nothing to help with the cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn the latest forecasts, the Reserve Bank expects inflation to fall within the target range of 1 to 3 percent within the third quarter of 2024. What we are doing here\u2014the legislation we are passing\u2014is not going to materially change that. It will not make a difference as inflation is falling anyway. But what we have seen the Minister of Finance do in this House during question time is say it\u2019s going to fall faster. So we will be tracking that, and we will be holding the Minister of Finance to those promises she has made in this House, because there is not a single piece of evidence that supports that that is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Finance was given three options by her officials for how she could reduce the mandate. We don\u2019t agree with what they wanted to do, but to go back to that single mandate, they could introduce this legislation\u2014the route they\u2019ve chosen to go down\u2014they could have issued a monetary policy remit only, and Treasury gave the advice that this would be the most expedient way to do it; or she could have temporarily suspended the objective and she could have achieved it through an Order in Council. The Minister and the Government chose to do it by virtue-signalling legislation that is not going to achieve a thing. The only thing it is achieving is showing New Zealanders where its priorities are and where they aren\u2019t, and they are certainly not with job creation. They are certainly not with creating higher wages for workers in New Zealand. What we are seeing is a Government that is turning its back on those things as a focus on something that it sees as a responsible Government should put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhen the bill was introduced by the Hon Grant Robertson to give the Reserve Bank a dual mandate, it was seen as a modernisation of our monetary policy. What we have here before us is a Government that is celebrating the great step backwards and that wants to go back before the 1990s to take New Zealand backwards and certainly to remove any kind of focus on jobs and wages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u00223fb1938ff6bc446ea9630e8dd5d3a480\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fb1938ff6bc446ea9630e8dd5d3a480\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to be speaking again on the third reading of this bill. I could speak at length about the benefits of this bill, but I\u2019m not going to. The affirmative points have been plentiful, and all I need to say is that I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022e776482637254be69a382a466afdbd98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e776482637254be69a382a466afdbd98\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This first piece of legislation that the Government has brought to the House has gone through under urgency, with no opportunity for submissions. However, as people who have sat through the committee stage will know, I have heard from a number of people about this bill. So I\u2019m going to take this opportunity now to read what they have written to me into the record as their submissions on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo coming from Greg Presland, he says, \u201CI wish to make a submission on the Reserve Bank amendment bill. If this Government is determined to do something about the cost of living, then this is the worst possible thing it could do. The result of any change will be to increase unemployment and also increase interest rates as the Reserve Bank operates single-mindedly to decrease inflation. Both of these things will make matters worse for ordinary Kiwis. For those who are made unemployed, their quality of life will be dramatically affected. For those whose businesses depend on their clientele having jobs so that they can continue to buy things from those businesses, their profitability will be affected. And for those of us who have mortgages, we will need to pay more to predominantly overseas-owned banks as interest rates increase. Please urge the Government not to do this.\u201D That was the first one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EFrom Raema Inglis, an accountant, who wrote to me about this bill and had some views on it. She says, \u201CI believe the Reserve Bank should keep a maximum sustainable employment as something to consider, alongside inflation, when setting monetary policy. The aim to have low levels of unemployment is the best use of this country\u2019s resources\u2014its people. Having inflation as the Reserve Bank\u2019s only monetary policy does a disservice to every person who would become unemployed. It has debilitating effects on those marginalised and vulnerable sectors of society, including disabled, M\u0101ori, Pasifika, and young people. High unemployment is an old-fashioned idea that should be left in the 1990s, when we saw severe economic hardship in many of our communities. No one wants to return to those days. A visionary Government would recognise the importance of maximum sustainable employment. I encourage this Government to include not only inflation but also maximum sustainable employment when setting monetary policy.\u201D That was from Raema Inglis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EFrom Margot Govers, also an accountant\u2014actually, I know a few accountants. She says, \u201CI\u2019m writing to you to encourage you to speak out against the Reserve Bank of New Zealand (Economic Objective) Amendment Bill. I am particularly concerned about the Government\u2019s decision to remove the dual mandates of controlling inflation whilst also ensuring a maximum sustainable level of employment. To have a fair and just society, everyone should have the opportunity to work and support themselves and their families. This gives them dignity or mana, not to have to rely on Government handouts to survive. When the Reserve Bank has to only consider inflationary measures, and, because of their measures, people lose their jobs, not only do they suffer, so do we as a society. Society is a group of people working and living together. With high unemployment, not only are those who are unemployed unable to support themselves but the rest of society has a bigger burden to support them. I think removing the dual mandate is short-sighted. Having a mandate to look at both price stability and maximum employment will better lead to long-term growth and a more macroeconomic outlook for New Zealand.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EFrom Josh, he says, \u201CI firmly believe workers should not be thrown on the scrap heap in an effort to get inflation down. New Zealand has had close to full employment for the last few years\u2014thank you, Labour\u2014and has made our economy and society stronger, avoiding the dislocation seen in other parts of the world. Repealing this incentivises the Reserve Bank to drive interest rates even higher, risking the livelihood of employees and business owners in the process. The side effects of high unemployment are also too great to bear: worsened mental health, less money to go around the economy and stimulate growth, and a greater sense of alienation from society.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe last one, from Dr Sarah Paterson-Hamlin: \u201CIt has come to my attention that there is an intention to return to a single imperative for the Reserve Bank to reduce inflation, and that reducing unemployment no longer will be part of their remit. I am extremely concerned with this regressive action. If COVID-19 demonstrated anything, it is that prioritising human beings over the economy is not only the ethical choice but, in the end, also the best economical choice. I have been unemployed, and I\u2019ve worked with t\u0101ngata whaikaha\u2014disabled people\u2014who have been unemployed, and I can tell you that the emotional toll is enormous. The loneliness associated with it has been proven to reduce health outcomes and life expectancy\u2014see, for example, Holly Walker\u2019s writing and research on this. Even if we were to cynically look at human beings as only economic units, then, still, reducing their functionality and working years by subjecting them to the soul-crushing reality of unemployment is a poor economic choice. I would argue, however, that to treat people as economic units rather than individuals with souls and hopes and dreams and history and wh\u0101nau is morally bereft.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThat is some evidence and submissions that people said to me about this bill\u2014submissions that that side of the House did not want to hear. That side of the House even tried to get rid of the most basic forms of evidence we get on bills from Government departments. \u201CNo RISes\u201D, they said\u2014\u201CWe won\u2019t have RISes.\u201D\u2014but the Treasury got one through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe Treasury put in a regulatory impact statement (RIS) on this bill. Interestingly, Jonathan Milne at Newsroom wrote about this regulatory impact statement, and he said it\u2019s something that Sir Humphrey Appleby would be proud of. The reason is that the language in this regulatory impact statement very carefully said to the Government, \u201CDo not do this\u2014do not do this.\u201D If you want to prioritise price stability over maximum sustainable employment, he says to use the remit process. There is no need to change the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn fact, Jonathan Milne provides some interpretations of the language in the regulatory impact statement. Here\u2019s what the Treasury says: that is important not to change the law but to use the remit processes. The RIS says, \u201Cthe Treasury puts significant weight on the value of a stable and enduring legislative regime for the Reserve Bank, which supports public and market confidence in the independence of the institution.\u201D In other words, says Jonathan Milne\u2014interpreting for us\u2014\u201CDon\u2019t mess with an institution we\u2019ve spent years building.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn another place in the regulatory impact statement, the RIS says that making this change through the mechanism of a law change and amending the Act \u201Ccould be seen as reducing future barriers to legislative change\u201D\u2014fine words from Sir Humphrey Appleby. Interpreting that, Milne says, \u201COnce you\u2019ve started messing with the law, every bloody politician will want to have a go.\u201D\u2014keep the law stable is the real meaning there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAnother thing that Jonathan Milne picks out of the regulatory impact statement\u2014he says, \u201CThe Reserve Bank\u2019s statutory framework is of considerable interest to market participants, and changes to it\u2014or the use of some options\u2014may trigger market concern.\u201D Milne\u2019s interpretation of that: \u201CRun for the hills!\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIn fact, going through the regulatory impact statement and looking at the options analysis summary, on the last page of it, shows quite clearly that the best option would be to issue a new monetary policy committee remit. That is the best option, and it is clearly the best option by some margin over changing the law, but this Government nevertheless chose to do it. As one of their very first actions into Government, it chose to do something that was completely unnecessary and to do something that was not the best option available to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo what does that tell us about them? It tells us of this Government that not only do they want to do something that\u2019s completely unnecessary, they do something that is harmful to workers, that is harmful to full employment in this economy, and coupled with the next piece of legislation that is coming to this House, where they intend to repeal fair pay agreements, all we can say is that this Government despises workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhat a shame it is to have a Government that like on the Treasury benches, where they will not care for low-wage workers, where they will not ensure that people have access to employment, and where they will not look after ordinary New Zealanders. It is an elitist and out-of-touch Government not guided by evidence at all. This is a shameful bill, and it is their very first piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4e1b4b412594650a2fad1cc525c722e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4e1b4b412594650a2fad1cc525c722e\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and speak in the very final speech on this bill before it will pass into law. I could take a lot of time to speak on this, but I won\u2019t. I\u2019ve had a chance to speak yesterday on it in some detail. But I\u2019m just going to make a very brief riposte to what we just heard. This bill is actually about fixing the economy, which is what we went into the election on and what people voted for the coalition Government to do. This is about helping all New Zealanders, particularly poor New Zealanders who inflation hits the hardest, and it\u2019s the thief in the pocket. We\u2019re here to fix that, to make sure we can look after New Zealanders. That\u2019s what this bill is about. I\u2019m proud to be a part of a Government that is going to deliver on its election promises and fix this economy for all New Zealanders. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000673\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b535009673e43348f8c8009dae8d65c\u0022\u003EFair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e509b5e575464e2287cce88ec389337f\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022a279b0688891457e86b3acab364404c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a279b0688891457e86b3acab364404c0\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I present to the House a legislative statement on the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e234106f6a4b48d4828329b59e9fbc9f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf7a81d00f434ba1a89c1957ba3a12a0\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill repeals the Fair Pay Agreements Act and associated amendments to other Acts, and revokes associated regulations. Once the Fair Pay Agreements Act is repealed, bargaining for initiated fair pay agreements will cease as there will be no legislative mechanism to bring any agreements into force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EMy clear intention with this repeal bill is for the fair pay agreement system to stop. I want to make that very clear: it is for the fair pay agreement system to stop and for all bargaining processes to cease. Fair pay agreements were never about fairness. They forced a minority of union workers\u2019 views on all affected workers and all affected businesses within an industry. The previous Government introduced legislation in 2022 for the fair pay agreement system. Under this system, unions and employer associations could bargain for employment terms and conditions that covered all employees in an industry or an occupation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe Fair Pay Agreements Act and associated regulations came into force on 1 December 2022. The National Party and the ACT Party opposed the development and introduction of the fair pay agreement legislation, and this repeal has been well signalled\u2014very, very clearly signalled\u2014through the entire campaign period, through the coalition agreements, and through the 100-day plan of this Government. We have a clear mandate from the voters to do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThis Government has committed to repealing the fair pay agreement legislation by Christmas 2023 as part of the coalition agreement between the National Party and the ACT Party, and I am committed to acting quickly to remove this legislation before any fair pay agreements are finalised and the transition arrangements become more expensive and more complex. We are doing this bill to send a clear signal to businesses that this Government understands the pressures that businesses have faced in an environment of increasing inflation and a Labour-led Government that has piled on regulations on to businesses that are finding it a struggle to cope. Today, this Government is providing certainty to businesses so they can get back to focusing on what they do best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EFair pay agreements require all employers within coverage to offer the same minimum terms and conditions. This leads to a rigid, one-size-fits-all agreement. Businesses need the flexibility to innovate if New Zealand is going to compete on the world stage. Workplaces need flexibility. This is something that\u2019s becoming an increasing priority for workers, especially workers seeking better work-life balance. Fair pay agreements restrict the flexibility that both workers and employers want in today\u2019s rapidly changing workplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EFair pay agreements also risk harming New Zealand\u2019s already dismal productivity growth. The best and the most sustainable way to increase the wages of workers and to lower prices for consumers is to improve productivity and reduce the regulations holding businesses back. Fair pay agreements just diminish the fundamental right to freedom of association, which includes the freedom to not associate. The most important thing to know about the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2019s regulatory impact statement from 2021 is that they recommended against\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c4e81d4c0904c20a25dc8ff2d74de70\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member, but the Clerks are having trouble with the audio and cannot hear the Minister. So could I ask for a bit of silence on this side. Thank you. Please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fe83b4ecd2f4c96a9feb357158a1061\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. The most important thing to note about the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2019s regulatory impact statement that was produced in 2021 on the Fair Pay Agreements Act is that the ministry recommended against introducing fair pay agreements. They argued that the improvements for employees would be marginal at best and would achieve this at a significant cost to employer flexibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe fair pay agreements could lead to worse outcomes for workers by raising the costs of doing business. If bargained wage increases meant businesses cannot remain competitive, the fair pay agreements would have resulted in lower employment or reduced hours of work\u2014which is not good for workers in our economy. This Government supports higher wages and better conditions for workers, especially during a cost of living crisis. But if fair pay agreements had been finalised, the costs of doing business would have increased across the board, which means the prices of goods and services for businesses would be likely to rise too. That\u2019s not good for businesses, consumers, or workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ENo workers\u2014and I want to make this very clear: no workers\u2014will have their wages cut or be worse off compared with the status quo, because no fair pay agreements have been signed or finalised. There have been six fair pay agreements that have been initiated since the fair pay agreement legislation came into force. However, all are in the very early stages of bargaining. No agreements have been finalised in any industry or any occupation. As no agreements have been finalised in any industry or occupation, there are no transitional arrangements required for the fair pay agreements that have been initiated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWe are a Government that wants to see higher wages for workers; we want to see a thriving, competitive business sector; we want to see more and better jobs in our economy; and we want to ease the pain of the cost of living crisis. But the fair pay agreements would have done so much more damage than any betterment to the economy and to the labour market. Far from being fair or even being about pay, the fair pay agreements were about harming the very workers they were meant to help. That is why this Government has opposed it and why we have brought this bill to repeal the Fair Pay Agreements Act to Parliament. I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u002246299446ece649669d557b8af7b68378\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246299446ece649669d557b8af7b68378\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and congratulations on your new role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis is a very sad day for this Parliament. This morning, I greeted some workers on the forecourt of Parliament. I greeted workers who worked in the early childhood sector, I greeted people who worked in the supermarket sector, I greeted security guards, cleaners\u2014people that would have benefited from fair pay agreements. I received a petition of 15,000 people who opposed what this Government is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EAll of these people understand that fair pay agreements were a way forward for New Zealand to address the embarrassing low productivity that we have and that has gone on for a number of years, and also the low-wage economy that we have had for a number of years. Those people understood that in order for us all to succeed, we need to have secure work, we need to have high wages, we need to have fair conditions, we need to have safe workplaces. Fair pay agreements would have been the mechanism to achieve these goals in New Zealand, and those things are sorely needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis Government has shown its true colours in these last few days. The first thing they did was to attack jobs, with the repeal of the dual mandate. The next thing they did was to repeal the fair pay agreements\u2014to attack wages and conditions that working people would like to see in their workplaces, that would have helped New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety has been questioned regularly about the advice that she\u2019s received, and it\u2019s quite obvious from the speech that she has just given that her answers, in the sense that she hasn\u2019t had any advice, are correct, because none of her explanation as to why fair pay agreements need to be repealed is actually backed up by evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI want to address this issue, because we\u2019re going to spend a long time on what is an issue that I find very, very interesting and have spent a long time in my life looking at. So one of the issues I want to address early on is the issue that the Government seemed to say that just because they had something in their election manifesto, it means that, somehow, they can come to this Parliament, they can dispense with the usual norms of lawmaking and scrutiny which are usual, like select committee processes, and use urgency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022200314ff1f6c4db6a0c1c25102f621c7\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: You used it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdeac817197348ba8de08e47f3cf901b\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: They say\u2014well, yes, the Labour Government used urgency. Yes, we did. But there should always be a justification and reason, and a good reason, for urgency, and there isn\u2019t one in this instance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EAs the Minister has said, none of the fair pay agreements that we are looking at have actually been initiated yet. So why is this Government prioritising taking away rights for fair pay, for fair conditions of working people before Christmas? Why is this a priority of this Government? I will answer that question. The reason is because they are an anti-worker Government. They don\u2019t stand with working people. They stand against working people, and that\u2019s why they\u2019re repealing this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ETwo hundred thousand to 300,000 working people stood to benefit from fair pay agreements. I want to go through each of the industries that have actually initiated fair pay agreements, so that the people on the other side of this House know, and the public of New Zealand know, who this Government is targeting and who they stand against. The people that this fair pay agreements bill will hurt the most are bus drivers. They are people in the hospitality industry. They are security guards. They are commercial cleaners. They are early childhood education workers that teach our most precious children and have such an important role in the first thousand days, as we\u2019ve heard. They are supermarket workers\u2014our essential workers that got us through COVID-19.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIt is absolutely unconscionable that this Government is prioritising taking away rights from these vulnerable low-paid workers before Christmas. They should be ashamed of themselves. Let me tell those on the other side of the House: you are on the wrong side of history. You will look back and your children will look back at this day and they will think, \u201CI wish we\u2019d had industry-level bargaining earlier, because we can see\u2014now that the 2026 Labour Government has implemented it\u2014the gains that that has made for productivity, the gains that that has made for workplace safety, the gains that that has made for wages, how people feel secure in their work.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis bill is a disgrace, and I do not support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce5ce4bc6aaf4511bd3ca80525d165b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce5ce4bc6aaf4511bd3ca80525d165b2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00227b75f63e9a414c9bbb885a5c1d4f7b81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b75f63e9a414c9bbb885a5c1d4f7b81\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. In a word: gutted\u2014gutted by this piece of legislation, gutted for the workers. I was also out on the steps of Parliament talking with workers: supermarket workers and early childhood education (ECE) workers, who are good, salt of the earth people. What I would say in terms of the speech that we just heard from the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety is this: she should climb out of the ivory tower of right-wing economic fundamentalism, and talk to the people. Talk to the people\u2014talk to the people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI joined the picket, last week, of ECE teachers. It has been acknowledged across the House, on both sides of the House, that there are serious issues in terms of pay parity within the ECE sector\u2014the ECE sector. These fair pay agreements would go a long way with making sure that we address those parity issues. Fair pay agreements would have put more money in the pockets of people teaching our mokopuna, keeping our hospitals clean and safe, stocking the supermarket shelves, and getting us around on the bus. It takes a particularly callous Government to turn its backs on the people who do so much for our communities. These are thousands of people who will be forced to work two or three days just to make ends meet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe other thing which is particularly appalling about this piece of legislation is the proximity to Christmas. We\u2019re two weeks out from Christmas, and what we have is a Government which is addicted to cancel culture. I thought they didn\u2019t like cancel culture, but here they are. They\u2019re cancelling climate action, cancelling te reo M\u0101ori, and here they are cancelling Christmas for the workers. Nothing but ciggies under the Christmas tree for the workers this Christmas, and what a shocker that is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge all the work that the workers have been putting in, and their unions. I know they\u2019ve been putting a lot of the hard yards ever since this piece of legislation has gotten over the line: working with their people, understanding the different conditions. I remember I went for a walk with some of the workers, and we went and talked with the different security guards in my town of Palmerston North, and they were talking about labour flexibility. If you are stuck in one job and you want to move to another one but they\u2019ve got completely different working conditions and pay rates, it makes it very difficult for them to move from that worksite to another. Fair pay agreements would have helped to address that. Fair pay agreements would have helped to create a floor in order for people to actually work together to make fairer working conditions for workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I would like to note as well is the number of leaked documents coming out of this Government. Somebody\u2019s not happy on that side of the House. They like to point the finger at the workers but maybe it is one of their coalition partners\u2014who knows? But what it did say is that by repealing this legislation, it\u2019s going to make working people\u2019s lives harder. It\u2019s going to make workers\u2019 lives harder. In particular, it\u2019s going to make work harder for women, harder for young people, harder for our M\u0101ori workers, and harder for our Pasifika workers as well. Those people that do the hard yards. Those people that stock our supermarket shelves, that clean our offices, that move us around on the buses, that take care of our mokopuna. This House should have those workers at the front of mind whenever they move legislation through the House. This House needs to be focusing on what it needs to do to improve the working lives of those workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Greens will always be on the side of the workers, and, in this particular case, we are absolutely gutted and appalled that this Government is pulling this move this close to Christmas, casting uncertainty on to hundreds and thousands of working people\u2019s lives. So you will see, through the course of this debate, calls from the Greens to highlight the very specific lives of working people, people that stock those supermarket shelves. Let\u2019s remember: when we were moving through the pandemic, we called them essential workers\u2014we called them essential workers. I say this to the workers: you were essential then; you are essential now\u2014you were essential then; you are essential now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EMembers on this side of the House will continue to speak up for workers, will continue to speak up for working people. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u00224575c134d851462ab782c261b00a7829\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224575c134d851462ab782c261b00a7829\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to be speaking on the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill. I\u2019d first like to take the opportunity to congratulate the Minister, the Hon Nicola Willis, on her appointment to her role as Minister. I\u2019m proud to be a member of the National Party and this coalition, which is acting at great pace to repeal many expensive and complex Acts that we have not seen make a great deal of difference and that would go on to overcomplicate relationships between employers and employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EMembers opposite are forgetting that we represent the majority, and we also speak to our constituents. I speak to our constituents all the time, many and most of whom are workers, and I can tell you, whether it\u2019s hospitality workers or bus drivers, they are not looking forward to losing the relationship they have with their employer and having that taken away and put into the arms of a union.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EWe need to repeal this Act so that we can leave flexibility with the employer and the employee, and give them greater control over the relationship they have. I can tell you that staff are very worried about this, and I look very much forward to supporting this through. I say on our behalf that we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00223d6b4a3e2c6548ef99837bfea7909459\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d6b4a3e2c6548ef99837bfea7909459\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Congratulations on your appointment to the Chair, too\u2014my first chance to have a contribution under your stewardship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First rises to support the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill. New Zealand First has always taken a very balanced view on employment relations. In the last two coalition agreements that we\u2019ve been part of forming, increases to the minimum wage have always been a feature that we have stuck out for. We do recognise the work especially of those blue-collar workers that do the hard yards, and they deserve to have a fair minimum wage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EBut the issue around that balance is that you have to have someone that\u2019s prepared to employ you. You have to have someone that\u2019s prepared to risk their capital, risk their house, risk their livelihoods, and put it all on the line to take someone on and have that responsibility of providing a living for someone else. We think this is quite a nuanced debate; this is kind of a circular argument. We actually will only drive wages if we can build our economy. The reason why we\u2019re slipping so far behind Australia is because of our productivity\u2014because we have wrapped ourselves in red tape and will not allow ourselves access to our natural resources, in many cases. So that is the bigger question at play here, but we will support this bill through the first reading. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5392fc931964e6aa5e90bc4ec51bfc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5392fc931964e6aa5e90bc4ec51bfc7\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau e te Whare. We will be strongly opposing this bill and this Government that appears to be anti-M\u0101ori, anti-Pasifika, anti - everything involving grassroots people, and anti-workers, and continuing to stand up and speak against this \u201Cthree Scrooges\u201D coalition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s disappointing that I stand on behalf of our party to speak to this reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill. I was proud to stand with the workers and the unions outside this House today to send a clear message to this Government that they are trampling on the rights of working people in Aotearoa\u2014the same working people who held this country up during the COVID, the same people that kept the communities going on the front line. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThis bill, like a lot of things that you\u2019re doing in the last couple of weeks, is taking us back years. But I can zone it down to 30 years, to a dark time in the history of workplace relations. I can speak from my own experience as a daughter of a freezing worker who was laid off in P\u0101tea in the 1990s and the massive onslaught against workers at the time as a core part of the neoliberal economic experiment that National and Labour dragged our people through. What we are seeing in this bill today is a repeat of what we saw then. Rather than giving workers the space to push the ceiling and fight for great pay, they are once again struggling and having to defend the floor and hold on to fair play. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s disgraceful that this Government is doing that, and you should be ashamed of yourselves and what you are delivering\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022554957465a624bc89b7e8d64ee19a968\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I am not ashamed of myself\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9d970c70d9a4b68945bd6fe858196d6\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to our wh\u0101nau just before Christmas. You\u2019re not ashamed of anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a1eafcca4524b489b6b1cb0cffd577a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just remind the member\u2014[Interruption]. Excuse me. Can I just remind the member not to bring the Speaker into the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e885a7330fbb443297857de02cf69642\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for the reminder. My apologies. It is disgraceful and we are ashamed of what we are finding our Government doing at this time. We are playing a zero-sum game. You cannot achieve real productivity and prosperity without ensuring your workers are paid well and have proper working conditions to be able to contribute to thriving and well families. Achieving success relies on bringing your whole team with you, not using and abusing those with less power than you so that you at the top can get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI want to use this opportunity in this first reading to say how disgusting it is that the Government is pushing through this bill under urgency. Usually, at this stage, we would be able to reflect and bring about a select committee process\u2014things that I\u2019ve heard members of this Government fight for in the 53rd Parliament\u2014considering and providing the opportunity for submissions and fair opportunities for the public to address and then also seek report-backs from the committees. The select committees are a vital part of our democratic process, which you are so precious about\u2014I beg your pardon\u2014which the Government is so precious about protecting; they are a check on the power of the executive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIn Aotearoa, we have far too few checks and balances compared with other countries. Allowing the public to be heard is a bare minimum that the Government is proving once again they don\u2019t care about. With this bill, we should have had the chance to hear from unions, from those that we saw here this morning, from workers, from employment relations, experts, and, yes, from businesses too. Denying them the right to submit on the laws of this land is a breach of fundamental democratic rights that we should uphold dearly, as we are reminded often in this country. The supermarket workers and the bus drivers that I spoke with outside the forecourt today had so much to say that this Government needs to hear. My goodness, we are now meeting protests and receiving petitions at least two to three times a day. How much more do we have to contend with? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ETo members on the Government benches\u2014to know what it is like to be on the front line of pandemic as essential workers. Do you remember what it was like to receive and remember the exposure and fearing for your health that a lot of our front-line workers had to endure? Do you remember and know what it\u2019s like to take a four-hour break in the middle of the day and then be expected to come back and work a long shift later the same day? Do you know what it\u2019s like to be in the 60s and 70s of age, still having dependent people and still earning an unlivable wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI seriously doubt that members opposite know any of these realities, but those are the realities this bill is seeking and the parties on that side of the House should be ashamed of themselves. Kia ora r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022274b8157f41849cf8d97f11440921b56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022274b8157f41849cf8d97f11440921b56\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This bill is of particular interest to me, given my actual experience in supporting employers to grow and employ more people throughout my career. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EDuring the campaign, I spoke to many concerned employers and employees about the impact of fair pay agreements (FPAs) on business sustainability and employee opportunities. FPAs are a blunt tool initiated by unions and a small number of employees, yet they apply to every employee and employer in an industry or occupation, regardless of whether or not they want it or want to be included. Businesses need flexibility to innovate, and FPAs restrict the flexibility both employers and employees want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EAs part of this Government\u2019s 100-day plan to get New Zealand back on track, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac561de8abab4c1fb2ad31ef13b58729\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac561de8abab4c1fb2ad31ef13b58729\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it was great to hear about all the experience that the member Carl Bates had, which was absolutely nothing. So thank you for that nothing contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI want to inform the House that I\u2019ve got a lot of experience in this area too. Like Debbie Packer\u2019s wh\u0101nau, I was also in the freezing works in 1991 when, sadly, Jim Bolger and his horrible voluntary unionism set-up came out. It\u2019s a sad thing, really, about Jim Bolger, but he came right in later years by supporting the Treaty of Waitangi, unlike the rest of this useless National Party and the hopeless ACT Party and the New Zealand First lot who\u2019ve forgotten their roots, sadly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EIn 1991, the whole line, the whole thought was \u201CWe need more productivity. It\u2019s all about market flexibility.\u201D So we had to ask ourselves, \u201CWhat the heck is market flexibility? What does that mean?\u201D Well, I\u2019ll tell you what that meant. It meant they just wanted us to work more and more and more for bugger all. That\u2019s what that became. So market flexibility was workers work more and more and more and you get more productivity, the company does well, but the workers miss out altogether. That\u2019s what market flexibility was under a National Government with Ruth Richardson and Jim Bolger. As I said, Jim came right later on; sadly, Ruth Richardson didn\u2019t. Most of the National Party of that time was all about suppressing workers\u2019 rights. At the time, we had a huge membership in terms of unions. Sadly, I think that came down to about 20 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe basic thrust of that was to get the workers working, as I said, at 100 percent but also this whole facade about bargaining. You know, the whole view was an individual could negotiate for themselves. That\u2019s the thrust of all this legislation: \u201CYou\u2019re a strong individual. You can do the business.\u201D But people know in the House, and if you\u2019ve worked in the unions and if you\u2019ve worked on the factory floor, which most of that lot haven\u2019t\u2014most of them wouldn\u2019t even know what a factory was. If you\u2019ve worked on the factory floor, you know that you can\u2019t negotiate because there\u2019s a total imbalance in terms of bargaining power. So the whole notion that individuals have a right and have a chance to negotiate is just a load of nonsense. The bosses, sadly, through the years, have picked off people, and people have been lost. So that\u2019s been the strength of the unions. The unions have been able to negotiate on behalf of the individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis fair pay agreement kaupapa has been something that we as a party and we as a former Government were very proud of\u2014very proud of\u2014because it gave workers hope. Workers in the hospitality area, workers in the security area, bus drivers\u2014these are the forgotten people of this country\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2787351ccf2452b9979962ed52310fa\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: We call them essential workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022903c1d8d18ae41cd9d4ed525f11f918e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the essential workers. These are the people who National and ACT don\u2019t care about. They don\u2019t give a damn about them. It\u2019s really sad. To see a new Minister going down this track is really, really disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EAnd I want to thank Michael Wood for the work he did in terms of putting this together. It was one of our proudest moments to have this fair bargaining kaupapa put in place, and repealing this initiative is nothing but an attack on some of our most valuable jobs and some of our most vulnerable workers. These Kiwis were the ones who worked through COVID while the rest of us stayed home. Why are we punishing them now through this just before Christmas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe fair pay agreements are something that\u2019s so valuable for them. It\u2019s given them hope in terms of their agreements. It\u2019s not the agreement but it\u2019s something that recognises their rights, recognises their health areas, recognises the special specifications for M\u0101ori workers. I know that upsets ACT because they\u2019re always booting M\u0101ori in the guts, and New Zealand First, sadly, have been supporting them, and National too. But M\u0101ori get special recognition in terms of fair bargaining, and so I was really proud of what we were able to put in place, put our frameworks in place, but for it all to be repealed before Christmas is one of the saddest strategies I\u2019ve ever seen from any Government over the years, and the National Party, New Zealand First, and ACT should hang their heads in shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u002203ab5ec442964c37aa0ad06d416cb7cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203ab5ec442964c37aa0ad06d416cb7cc\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, I\u2019d just like to first of all start off by congratulating you on taking your role. It\u2019s great to see someone from the rural sector in such a fine position. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EThe reason this Act needs to be repealed is very simple\u2014the fair pay agreements\u2014all it does is take us back. I\u2019ve sat in this House for the last few days and all I\u2019ve heard is about going back. Well, if anything\u2019s going to take us back to the 1970s and 1980s, it\u2019s this Act, because all it\u2019s going to do\u2014the long game here is very simple. It\u2019s to create a situation whereby we end up with nationwide strikes and very little productivity because nothing gets done. And those of us who lived through those times remember the damage that did to our businesses, particularly the farming businesses and the freezing works you talked of, because, ultimately, they couldn\u2019t produce because no one was at work. So I would commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0fa39dd1d71440ba0114fabdfe576a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0fa39dd1d71440ba0114fabdfe576a5\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E That was the biggest load of rubbish I\u2019ve heard in a really long time, and there\u2019s been quite a lot of rubbish spoken in this House. So what I\u2019d like to speak to is the words of Brooke van Velden that have been haunting this House and have made me recall back, actually, right back into the 1990s, and those words were that no workers will be any worse off without fair pay agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhat that reminded me of was back to the Employment Contracts Act 1991, when I was a supermarket worker. In those days, my hourly rate was $4.20 an hour, which doesn\u2019t sound like much, but when you\u2019re 16 and you get paid penal rates at the weekend\u2014double time\u2014$8.40 is not a bad wage. On top of that, you would get an allowance for a meal break, so that actually made it worth turning up to work and it gave you a bit of money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EBut when the Employment Contracts Act came in, when they asked us to sign, they said those same words\u2014that no worker would be worse off if they sign this contract\u2014and do you know what? We bloody well were, because each time I got a pay increase, there was something in my pay called a personalised difference, and when my hourly rate went up, my penal rates disappeared and my allowances disappeared, and it took me three years, until I was 19 years old, to earn the same amount of money I was earning as a 16-year-old. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThat is the same mentality that is being applied to our workers here in New Zealand. It won\u2019t be any worse off, but it damned well won\u2019t be any better either, and who benefits from that? It\u2019s those people creaming it at the top while our essential workers are slogging their guts out every day, teaching our kids, cleaning our floors, driving our buses. They want to skim that money off and keep it in their own pockets, and that\u2019s what I say is unfair and damn right shameful and selfish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo when the Employment Contracts Act came in, we have taken a long time to make gains in it, and I want to correct a couple of misinformation points that have been put across in this House today. The number one that\u2019s really important is productivity\u2014what the last speaker, Grant McCallum, has said, which was that this piece of legislation, before it was repealed, would hamper or impede productivity. Well, the OECD and a lot of those people who have done research\u2014including the Rt Hon Jim Bolger\u2014have been on the page of saying that this would be good for New Zealand\u2019s productivity. The key reason for that is it stops the race to the bottom. It stops those bad employers and disincentivises bad employment conditions and poor wages, and it rewards those good employers who care about their employees, who pay them a decent wage. They get benefits for that\u2014they get benefits for that\u2014because they get good quality products and they get higher intellectual property. We get great products that we can sell and have innovation across the world and be known for our number eight wire mentality that distinguishes New Zealand from other countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EBut those opposite want to take us back to 1991. They\u2019re not interested in being cutting edge. They\u2019re not interested in using our brains and our smarts to put ourselves further. They\u2019re going to take us back and they\u2019re going to take the money off those people who were essential workers when we needed them the most. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what really disappoints me, because if we incentivise our employers to be good employers, then the competition is who\u2019s got the best\u2014who\u2019s got the best product, who\u2019s got the most innovative way of doing it\u2014not who can be the quickest one to race to the bottom to pay workers the least, to be giving them poorer conditions in order to be making your profit margin larger. That\u2019s the kind of playing field that this Government has drawn up for New Zealand workers, and that is what is so unfair about repealing something that would actually increase productivity and reward those employers that take good, hard-working New Zealanders for what they are\u2014that they\u2019re an asset to their business, not a detriment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo I would like to just round off by saying that during the times of COVID, I heard so many speeches from the National Party about how important our essential workers were, thanking them for their hours, thanking them for the difficulties, and thanking them for how they went above and beyond to serve us when we needed it, and now they turn their back on those workers by giving them less, right before Christmas. It\u2019s an absolute bloody disgrace and I hope that they live to see what will happen, and that will be workers of New Zealand who stand up and fight back for behaviour that is selfish and self-serving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc3cbfa8472a4add82b82ff77add35fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc3cbfa8472a4add82b82ff77add35fa\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m particularly pleased that my first opportunity to speak in this Chamber is in support of the removal of regulations that will hinder the community that I represent; that\u2019s the Wairarapa electorate. Businesses across the districts of Central Hawke\u2019s Bay, Tararua, Masterton, Carterton, and South Wairarapa are struggling under the weight of legislation that the last Government introduced. My electorate is driven by farming and multiple small and medium family-owned businesses that are often operating on very small margins. They\u2019re much more vulnerable to ill-thought-through legislation than larger businesses. Small businesses in our electorate are embedded in their local communities, employing local people, supporting local. The cost of living crisis is driving them into the ground. When they suffer, the wider community suffers. I urge all members of this House to support the repeal of the Fair Pay Agreements Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002251a8baa244ba4142bcc74db572b7c37b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000751\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022afb0fd8fe2744c5e8ecc241adc76bd3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afb0fd8fe2744c5e8ecc241adc76bd3a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for second reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022625385f01b56466cb914681e1734efe6\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7ae09ce36d64fb48c4971bc577554b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7ae09ce36d64fb48c4971bc577554b9\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill repeals the Fair Pay Agreements Act that was brought to this House by the previous Government. We do not believe that that bill would have improved workers\u2019 outcomes or business outcomes in our economy in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve spoken at length in the first reading about what the effect of those laws would be, but I wanted to take the time and the opportunity to express what we heard when the fair pay agreements legislation went through the House under the previous Government, some very clear submissions that happened at the time. There were quite a few people who spoke about the effect that that law would have on businesses and on workers in our economy and this is why we are repealing the bill. The first one I\u2019d like to note was the Federated Farmers of New Zealand. They said, \u201CSome business owners will be forced to downsize or simplify their business to avoid employing people, or some will close the doors entirely.\u201D That would be an effect of the Fair Pay Agreements Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EHorticulture New Zealand, when they talked about the effect, talked about the effect on the cost of living for New Zealanders. They said, \u201CFair pay agreements will result in additional costs and organisational compliance for growers. Growers cannot continue to absorb increased costs. If growers stop producing a variety of fruits and vegetables in New Zealand, or at worst have to close their businesses, this will result in less local choice and diversity of produce for consumers. An increased price of kai for Kiwis\u2014clearly, clearly a terrible outcome.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThere was a quote from a small family-owned promotions company which talked about how this would bring other people into the relationships between an employer and an employee. And they\u2019ve said, \u201CI have a very transparent and good relationship with our team and see any collective agreement that applies to our business will only start alienating my relationship with our small team. Having to negotiate an employment agreement via an unrelated third party may work in a large organisation, but certainly not in most small businesses.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThere was a struggling business in the hospitality sector that said, \u201COur industry is already paying more. Market conditions resulting from labour shortages have already driven hospitality industry wages up beyond what many businesses can afford. Many small hospitality businesses have already closed or are operating reduced days and hours only, and they simply can\u2019t pay more. The Fair Pay Agreements Act 2022 would represent further change that would go too far, too fast, with damaging consequences.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI note also from the New Zealand Shipping Federation that they said, \u201CNew Zealand workers must have the right to associate with a trade union where they wish to do so. But the right to freely associate with others includes the right not to associate where an individual does not wish to. This bill has the effect of utilising the powers of the State to compel people who have, in many cases, consciously and explicitly chosen not to associate with a trade union or an employers association, to have a trade union or employers association represent them and their interests without their agreement.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThese are clear examples of why this Government is repealing the Fair Pay Agreements Act. We do not believe that all employees and all employers within scope should be forced into an agreement where it doesn\u2019t work for the worker and it doesn\u2019t work for the business. We need a flexible labour market that focuses on productivity growth, that focuses on reducing regulation, and focuses on reducing inflation so that everybody can have more food on their table for themselves and their families but where businesses have the confidence to flourish and employ more, and where business owners have more money to pay their staff more. This Fair Pay Agreements Act would not have done that. It would have led to worse outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWe have a clear mandate from the voters for this law to be repealed. We campaigned clearly. It was in the coalition agreement. It is part of our 100-day plan. It will make a better, more flexible labour market to return to what we had before the Fair Pay Agreements Act came into force. So, therefore, I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u002215779002ef174344ab8afe5bd05168ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215779002ef174344ab8afe5bd05168ad\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak about something I am very passionate about, although it\u2019s absolutely not a pleasure to be speaking on the repeal bill for the Fair Pay Agreements Act that was brought in by the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI\u2019m quite surprised, listening to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety\u2019s speech\u2014and I know she\u2019s a new Minister, and maybe she doesn\u2019t have her full staff on board yet, but I actually participated in the select committee process, and we received 1,700 submissions. The majority of those submissions were in favour, as I recall, of the amendments. I can also read out the submissions of those in support of the legislation that we did indeed pass, but I don\u2019t think that proves the Minister\u2019s point. I think the Minister needs to actually engage with the substance of what she is repealing, because now, with this longer call, I have the time to go through what fair pay agreements actually do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EFair pay agreements are a form of industry-level bargaining. They\u2019re common across the world, in countries that we would like to compare ourselves to: in Germany, in France, in Italy, in Australia. They are common arrangements in these countries. These types of agreement create a floor and not a ceiling in relation to terms and conditions. If employers want to offer something above what is in the fair pay agreement, there is absolutely nothing preventing them from doing that. They just create minimum standards, which we are very used to in New Zealand\u2014we have lots of minimum standards that apply to workers. We have the minimum wage, we have minimum holidays, we have parental leave, we have sick leave\u2014those kinds of things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe thing that is different\u2014and beneficial\u2014about fair pay agreements is that they allow employers and workers to come together, whether they\u2019re in a union or not, and discuss what works best for the industry\u2014what they consider to be fair terms and conditions that will allow them to have secure work, secure pay, and be able to see a career moving forward. That is how they work. It is not a scary thing. It is something that actually allows New Zealand to move forward and allows us to become a high-wage, productive economy\u2014which I actually think most people, on both sides of the House, would like to see New Zealand become.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThat is what fair pay agreements are, and my colleague Willie Jackson aptly referred to Jim Bolger \u201Ccoming right\u201D, and I just thought it would be apt to refer to the work that the Rt Hon Jim Bolger did actually do in relation to fair pay agreements. He chaired the working group that set the groundwork up for the Fair Pay Agreements Bill that was passed by our Government. And I quote from the Rt Hon Jim Bolger. He said, \u201CWe believe we have designed a Fair Pay Agreements system which will be most useful in sectors or occupations where competition is driving a \u2018race to the bottom\u2019 in terms of wages and conditions. Fair Pay Agreements could also be useful where workers and employers identify scope to improve outcomes across a sector or occupation. In particular, I consider that workers and employers will need to work together to find innovative ways to lift productivity.\u201D So someone who was in favour of what we introduced was the Rt Hon Jim Bolger, and I respect and thank Jim Bolger for his work. It\u2019s disappointing to see it repealed like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I wanted to touch on are the people who will actually be affected by this repeal of the Fair Pay Agreements Act. It\u2019s not us in the Labour Party; it\u2019s not the unions that perhaps don\u2019t find favour with the other side of the House. The people on this side of the House, as has been mentioned, and unions, have good terms and conditions. They\u2019re unlikely to be covered by a fair pay agreement. The people that this is really hurting are not, in the majority, union members; they\u2019re everyday New Zealanders who work in vulnerable industries who need fair pay. They are, as in the Minister\u2019s own advice that she received in the regulatory impact statement, more likely to be M\u0101ori, they\u2019re more likely to be Pasifika, they\u2019re more likely to be women, and they\u2019re more likely to be young people. These are the people that removing fair pay agreements is actually hurting. It\u2019s not us; it\u2019s New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI just wanted to refer back to the speech I gave on the first reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Bill, when I quoted in the House at that time Morris, a bus driver I spoke to. He said, \u201CFlat rates just mean drivers work more and more hours to make ends meet. They\u2019re on split shifts. They can be doing 14 hours a day, but not getting paid for these hours. It leaves people with no time for their families and it creates fatigue.\u201D Morris was speaking in favour of fair pay agreements, which he hoped would revolutionise the work of bus drivers. I know that this Government is intent on repealing this legislation, but can I just put a plea out for these workers: no one deserves to be working 14-hour days and not getting paid for all those hours on split shifts. No one deserves to work in a job in New Zealand where they can\u2019t see their families or can\u2019t make enough to live on. These are serious issues that we need to address, so we must actually be brave enough to look at the way we work in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe other person I wanted to mention featured on the cover of The Post, yesterday I think it was. This is Rosey; she\u2019s a security guard. She actually came along\u2014she\u2019s a real person. To be honest, she\u2019s very brave to be speaking out as a security guard and sharing her story. She said, in the paper, \u201CSecurity guards often don\u2019t receive the proper training for things like health and safety, and de-escalation. FPAs would help security guards get the training and upskilling they need to keep themselves and others safe. It\u2019s a stressful job, and we deserve to feel valued in the work we do.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EOne of the things that is interesting about being in this House is when we have the adjournment debate, and I\u2019m sure we\u2019ll see this again when we adjourn for this year. One of the groups of people we always want to thank are our security guards and our cleaners. They do incredible work here at Parliament, and a lot of their work isn\u2019t valued. It is heart-breaking to be, on the one hand, thanking them in our words, thanking them for the service that they do and that they provide, and, on the other hand, passing laws in this House\u2014with our actions\u2014and showing that this Parliament does not value them. Because that is what this Government is doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe other things that I wanted to cover, in relation to fair pay agreements\u2014and we will have a decent amount of time to, I hope, discuss this in the committee of the whole House stage as well\u2014are some other issues that have arisen in our scrutiny of this legislation that has been proposed by the Government. We\u2019ve seen, perhaps in their haste to put out a press release saying they\u2019ve achieved their 100-day goals, the drafting of their legislation was amiss in some instances, and I\u2019m foreshadowing that we\u2019ll be putting some Amendment Papers\u2014as they\u2019re now called\u2014into the committee of the whole House stage to seek to address those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I wanted to mention was some of the other concerns that have been raised during the very fast passage of this piece of legislation through the House. New Zealand has, as all in this House will be aware, an EU free-trade agreement. One of the conditions of that EU free-trade agreement is that countries don\u2019t deregulate their labour laws in order to give themselves a competitive advantage, and I understand a complaint has been raised to that nature. So I would just caution members on the other side of the House that, when they do seek to put legislation through urgency, sometimes issues like this can arise, which may be unintentional but can have serious implications for our trade relationships and serious implications for the very important trade deals that we have entered into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe other thing I wanted to raise is that there is an issue with some of the explanation that has been happening around whether this will actually impact workers. Well, we know that this would have created fairer pay and conditions for workers, and therefore they are impacted. But secondly to that, we know that there is at least one application in the Employment Relations Authority for fixing the terms of a fair pay agreement. Now, obviously, that\u2019s before the authority; it\u2019s not for us to comment on how that will progress, as is customary in this House. However, I think we can comment to say that that particular group will be impacted by this decision. And I note in the departmental disclosure statement which was released with this bill that there was also an issue raised in relation to that under the Legislation Act 2021, which actually doesn\u2019t allow existing rights to be repealed if they\u2019re existing at the time of the repeal\u2014so some interesting issues for the Government to have to address in this piece of legislation that they have moved through very, very quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I look forward to the committee stage, when we can look through the legislation in detail, but I just wanted to say that in the Labour Party we will always stand up for working people, and this is not the end of this fight. We\u2019ll be back, and fair pay agreements will be too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3ea0ae622884cb1878fbbf6a83ac775\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3ea0ae622884cb1878fbbf6a83ac775\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a sad day to stand up and take a call on the second reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill, shepherded by a Government that seems to want to make our lowest-income workers have a terrible time ahead of Christmas; a Government that is full of platitudes, happy to celebrate our essential workers when it was convenient and turn their back on them and turn the clock back in time as soon as they take the reins of power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve gone through the passage of the debate and in this bill, it\u2019s been really clear that this bill was not centred on the wellbeing of workers; it was centred on ideology. I heard, through the debate, members of the opposite side yell out \u201Cmisinformation\u201D when the member from the Labour Party Camilla Belich was speaking, and it\u2019s quite the call to be making when the whole campaign against fair pay agreements was based on misinformation. So to now turn around and call the members speaking on the facts on why fair pay agreements would have been good \u201Cmisinformation\u201D is a slap on the face to the workers, the union campaigners, and the businesses who actually support paying those workers a good wage, because those businesses understand that if you\u2019re running a business model that cannot afford to pay workers a living wage, that business should not have a right to exist. If your premise of running a business relies on the exploitation of workers, then you\u2019re not running a business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff6f3a2e61e541f0a279351dcb1080ad\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Have you run a business before?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca540abe75844997b0af33d84c519538\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s interesting that I\u2019m once again getting shouts from the other side of the House, talking about whether we\u2019ve even run a business. I then challenge those members: have you been a cleaner? Have you worked in hospitality? Have you worked in any of those industries? If so, next time those members walk into the supermarket, next time those members walk into the cafe, next time those members thank the cleaners, they need to remind themselves they were the members who voted against improving the pay and the conditions of those very same workers they claim to represent. They need to remember that they have turned their backs on those workers as soon as they entered the halls of power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EFair pay agreements would have set a minimum standard for those workers. It is about pay, but it is also far more than just about pay. It\u2019s about minimum base wage rates. It\u2019s about overtime rates when they apply. It\u2019s about penalty rates. It\u2019s about health and safety. In a country that has a terrible record when it comes to health and safety standards for our workers, repealing a key piece of legislation that would have improved the safety of our workers is a stain in this Government\u2019s track record and their commitment to keep our workers safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI used to work in hospitality\u2014something that quite a lot of right-wingers seem to take issue about, as if it wasn\u2019t real-life experience. But, actually, this bill affects the people who I used to work with. Having worked at a cinema that had some of the lowest wages for a profession such as a projectionist, when other cinemas offered different conditions, it was really clear to me, when fair pay agreements were brought up, the benefits that it would have had for those friends of mine who were still working in the industry to have the certainty that there was going to be a minimum rate for those workers. I had the pleasure of talking to those workers when I went on Dominion Road with people from Unite Union to hand out letters notifying people of what we call a notification of bargaining; of the process of starting that fair pay agreement. It was palatable, the curiosity and the excitement from workers about what could fair pay agreements have delivered for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWorkers who I\u2019ve talked to on Dominion Road immediately understood that there\u2019s no floor, there\u2019s no standards set across the hospitality scene. For those politicians, for those opponents of fair pay agreements: next time they go out to their favourite eatery in the city, they need to remember those workers who they took that opportunity to have better working conditions and safety standards away from them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIt was also really clear of the voices that were brought to the halls of power\u2014to the forecourt here in Parliament\u2014and for other pickets across the country, that many workers are having to take multiple jobs simply to make ends meet. What this piece of legislation was aiming to achieve was to prevent workers having to work shifts back-to-back, to have to give up time to be with their families, to sacrifice the opportunity of being able to study alongside working just to be able to survive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard, throughout the debate, that the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety\u2014responsible for this bill\u2014and those members in support of this bill think that repealing it will give greater flexibility for employers. But at no point have they been able to produce evidence of the outcomes that the repeal will have when it comes to the material reality of those workers. They\u2019ve spoken about the impact it will have on employers, but their trickle-down economics, their trickle-down beliefs that those gains for employers will be passed down to workers, is nothing but a myth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI notice, in the paper that we\u2019ve been presented, that there were options presented to the Minister about alternatives to just simply scrapping it\u2014perhaps looking at other options\u2014and it\u2019s interesting that when presented with multiple options to perhaps reach a compromise on what they had campaigned on and the wellbeing of our workers, the choice that was still nonetheless pursued was to take us back. When they talk about the so-called evidence on this bill, as has been canvassed by other members, the evidence actually shows the contrary. Overseas evidence shows that fair pay agreements would have benefited\u2014as it has our counterparts overseas\u2014by lifting their wages, lifting their conditions, and for parties that campaign on the issue of our workers leaving to Australia, they need to realise that our workers are leaving to countries that have better standards for those workers. Who are we to then demand that those workers stay in a country that is literally worsening the conditions for those workers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAgain, I point out the fact that this Government had the opportunity to land somewhere that wasn\u2019t back to zero\u2014to not turn the clock so far back\u2014and they still chose to do it with no evidence, with not even wanting to have a proper regulatory impact statement in front of them to be able to hold to their arguments against the advice from people who actually know better than the Minister; people who are connected, who have the expertise and the training. Because the Minister, while she may have claimed that she has met with the with the union sector, she has not been able to substantiate the details of those conversations to back up her arguments on why this piece of legislation and repealing fair pay agreements is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to commend, too, the many workers who\u2014despite there not being a select committee submission process\u2014have put their livelihoods, their stories on the line to make the case on why fair pay agreements are a thing to be protected. Because, normally, we would have given them the chance to come to the halls of power, to a House that belongs to them, to explain to us why fair pay agreements should have been protected. Those people who are against it\u2014yeah, they would have been given the chance too. But we\u2019ve bypassed that process, on the premise of ideology. We could have given people the chance to come and submit; to actually test us\u2014test us on the grounds that each of us campaigned on: on workers\u2019 issues\u2014but those workers don\u2019t have that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI also want to mihi to Rosey, who was acknowledged in the previous speech. I had the pleasure of campaigning with her on issues around public housing. It says a lot that the workers who have been very visible in the media are the same workers who, the Minister has been advised, will be most impacted. It has been the young workers, the women, the M\u0101ori workers, Pasifika workers, young workers who have come out and spoken as to why fair pay agreements are good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf the advice that the Minister received is not good enough, she may want to turn her face from the ivory tower to the streets to listen to the experiences of those workers. If she does not want a regulatory impact statement to test her own views against the advice from people who know better than her, she could have turned her face to the streets and spoken to those workers that she will encounter in cafes and the supermarket, and next time she goes to a mall and sees security guards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo, as I finish this call, I want to ask those members opposite to me to speak to those workers, to look at them in the eye, and remind them this Christmas of what they took away from them. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee5d3df0d7fc4d778c835200e2bdc1fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee5d3df0d7fc4d778c835200e2bdc1fd\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m offended that the Hon Willie Jackson and members opposite suggest that we don\u2019t care about bus drivers. Unlike members opposite, who operate in theories and ideals, I have successfully employed and retained over 100 staff, many of whom were bus drivers. My husband has been a bus driver. My father has been a bus driver. My grandfather has been a bus driver. Many of my family and friends are bus drivers, and to intimate that we in the National Party do not care about bus drivers is incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EIn fact, like my friend James Meager\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022671b62dfe77e4e60b9a98e3bccefd6e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022671b62dfe77e4e60b9a98e3bccefd6e2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order! Just a moment\u2014interjections are fine, but there\u2019s too much shouting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbfbb951976e4bc89d8638c292391cd8\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014said, the members opposite do not own workers, and, for that matter, neither do their unions. Staff across the country are worried about division that the fair pay agreement (FPA) will bring. There is no question. As I mentioned earlier, I have successfully employed and retained hundreds of employees, none of which was done through an FPA. So, in the second reading of this bill, I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u002281245d7033b54f139142cd6a72a49285\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281245d7033b54f139142cd6a72a49285\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to continue to support this Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EAll I\u2019m hearing from the other side of the House is catastrophising. I mean, this bill hasn\u2019t even kicked in yet, this mechanism. It\u2019s not as though we\u2019re tearing up a workers\u2019 utopia. This is a bill that hasn\u2019t even taken effect yet. So we\u2019re just getting rid of it before it takes effect and cripples the flexibility in our labour market. And I will not be lectured, or New Zealand First will not be lectured, by the Labour Party. We have a track record in three consecutive coalitions that we\u2019ve been involved in; having a rise to the minimum wage has been part of that. Extraordinarily, in 2017, we had to bring them kicking and screaming to the table to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich actually made the actually obvious point that union members probably wouldn\u2019t be affected by this because they collectively bargain anyway. So where is the problem? If that is what people want to do, they have a solution there already. And, of course, we totally respect\u2014as I said earlier\u2014that people that risk their own capital to provide jobs and to grow the economy need the flexibility to be able to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ELast time we were in Government with Labour, and they tried to bring this forward, our real concern about this and why we did pull the handbrake on this was particularly around the regional employers. There\u2019s different cost structures in different regions of New Zealand. It\u2019s a different cost of living in Auckland than it might be in Balclutha. So the complexity of bringing these things together is a lot more challenging than the members opposite would make out. But it is typical of them and their one-size-fits-all approach to almost everything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will support this bill in the second reading. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002236ad804723ab496b89bd9d06d2f77f16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236ad804723ab496b89bd9d06d2f77f16\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. I call the Hon Marama Davidson\u2014five minutes, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00224165335199064eb7a07293218d285dc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224165335199064eb7a07293218d285dc4\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Be honest. Be honest, this Government\u2014the National Party, New Zealand First, ACT\u2014be honest about what is actually driving this legislation to remove rights for workers. Be honest about who your most wealthy and collective donors were and what their purposes are to get you into Government. Urgency; rushing the repeal, the wind-back of workers\u2019 wellbeing and lives is what you are doing in urgency. You\u2019re not even whispering about it; you\u2019re doing it out loud. Be upfront. Just say\u2014just say you don\u2019t care about workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2d0d44d1a8f485facf60e659cba61f5\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c1455fd87da43ebb5939f80e4da7a3e\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Just say that, and then we can at least be clear about what your rationale, and your reasonings, and your purpose has always been and will always be. And no, it does not matter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022976c7d1a57ad4ef18a17c64980b6cd32\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014excuse me for a moment. Point of order, the Hon Simeon Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224061f9bcc4da403cb0382b5908c52fd9\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: The member started her speech making assertions about the Government\u2019s reasons why this bill was being progressed\u2014trying to assert it to do with donors and other things, and I don\u2019t think that\u2019s within the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b949c46a465c4b5ba24d55b66820f9fb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I think it\u2019s probably not helpful to refer to donors, and I\u2019m sorry, I was a bit distracted at that point; I was just clarifying something over here. So perhaps we\u2019ll avoid talking about donors in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5ffbb89eb374a23bb0f45d8126b963b\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, could I have some clarity\u2014genuine guidance\u2014about why it isn\u2019t OK in this House of Representatives to refer to who are the drivers and the owners of political parties in their laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238b5aae446ec4ce3aa4a89948ad61676\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: [Takes advice] Thank you. So what I\u2019m going to ask speakers to do is to stay away from those. We are going to follow up with some Speakers\u2019 directions, but carry on with your speech for now and avoid going there, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224744161b5cca48f8b2531d62f7126513\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate that, and I will even refine my language: be clear. Be clear about what is actually driving the rationale behind this legislation, just before Christmas\u2014just before Christmas\u2014to repeal and wind back some of the best and most improved progress in workers\u2019 rights that this country would have seen in decades, to address systemic issues. Yes, we have made some progress because of collective power of bargaining on workers\u2019 rights in this country, yes. But there remain some deep, systemic issues that have impacted in the areas of employment and industry that most disproportionately are represented by M\u0101ori, by Pacific people, by women, by young people, and by people with a disability in those areas and trades specifically that have, for decades and far too long, exploited those workers who are at most risk and are most vulnerable to being exploited\u2014not just with lower pay but also with hours that are mucky and that impact on their other responsibilities in the rest of their lives, with learning and development conditions and training so that they can actually build upon their work, no matter what that work is\u2014that have been impacted on by a lack of decision making and input from workers, including their ability to be safe and well in their workplace. That is what this Government and all of those political parties are doing, in a rush, right before Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo, yes, I do stand behind my ask to be clear. Be clear about what your motivations are. Do not try and hide behind and pretend that this is about the wellbeing of workers when the evidence\u2014decades of evidence of systemic problems and failure with the very workers from communities who have been getting hammered for so very long; for too long\u2014don\u2019t try and pretend that this legislation is any attempt to uphold their dignity, their rights, and their mana. That\u2019s all I ask: be clear. Be clear about what your motivations are, because we sure as heck are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWere the members opposite out there in front of Parliament today, meeting with and hearing from workers? OK, if you have some weird ideology against collective strength, such as unions, all right, that\u2019s fine\u2014you can remain with that ideology, sure. But have you sat down with workers now, today, out there on the steps: the supermarket workers, the people who look after our mokopuna, the people who drive our buses, the people who clean our places of work, our places of living? And no, OK\u2014it doesn\u2019t even matter that I am from a family of generations of cleaners and bus drivers and retail workers and hospitality workers, that I myself have done hospitality\u2014I\u2019m just watching the clock\u2014and cleaning, that both of my parents were bus drivers, that my grandmother worked in a cafe and also did cleaning. OK, that shouldn\u2019t matter. What does matter is that we all here today, wherever we\u2019ve come from, have a responsibility to honour and uphold the mana of those who do not have large moneyed connections to organisations to make these laws happen fast, who do not have power and resource, who have for far too long\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2cf0e6d18254226b6f3f92ed79dc3bd\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da04c100d3214aab9e54591b3919c2da\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, come on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d4bc4c600534b688d2f015461525bb1\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just draw your attention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265c163140b1946d28ecbe784acbf0ce4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, the member\u2019s raised a point of order. I\u2019ve actually got some information, in front of me, around the issue that was\u2014is it the same point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272ead3e7e2bf4dc9b255eb54ece34db6\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I mean, she just referred to\u2014I mean, again made the same assertion of improper motives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239050d878ff74ff7a992577fb258fd24\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. So the member has been asked not to do that. I think it\u2019s probably appropriate, actually, that I read out the particular Speakers\u2019 ruling now, and I refer to, under \u201CUnparliamentary language\u201D, 55/5: \u201C(1) It is in order to say that the Government is influenced, but it is not in order to say that in \u2026 carrying out of its administrative and governmental duties, apart from the formulation of its policy before it came to the House, the Government is dictated to by an outside body.\u201D And \u201C(2) It is out of order to suggest that the Government or any member is subject to outside domination,\u201D. So I\u2019d just ask the member to be cognisant of that in future. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba55cdfed11a4a48ad5ba4e7c034d0c8\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I firstly ask, could I have, I think, the 15 seconds back that I lost in the point of order\u201420 seconds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b55371127f4baf9b2da87162652a04\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You can have your 15 seconds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f32dda9965c4084950a9ceebe987109\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Make it 30.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fac461915f145dabfe9bfdf4d9b98df\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1ea337fa57e42b69ddf6751d0689600\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker, I will wind up my speech. I appreciate that guidance, genuinely. I hope that we can talk about, though, who the workers have to champion their causes, rather than talking about who political parties have to champion their causes. And who the workers have to champion their causes: it should be all of us in this House of\u2014apparent\u2014Representatives, but it will definitely be the Greens. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226c2004c0df0d479b9992c869d77343ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c2004c0df0d479b9992c869d77343ee\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I take the next speaker, can I ask\u2014does Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori intend to have your five-minute call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6eb723b6861427b932fad074eb487a5\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100e.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022351351\u0022 data-id=\u0022b48e77bf1e544f3fb5a601ce10ce1860\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022351351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b48e77bf1e544f3fb5a601ce10ce1860\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: So I call T\u0101kuta Ferris.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u00224af18b805a15466f86013481b2598afb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224af18b805a15466f86013481b2598afb\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E E te P\u012Bka, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe. I rise on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori to speak to the second reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill. We will be strongly opposing this bill, pau te kaha [until all our strength is expended].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ELet me start by saying, as Emeritus Professor of Accounting Whatarangi Winiata consistently said, M\u0101ori have long been the shock absorber of the New Zealand economy. Last hired, first fired\u2014this bill will compound this effect. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori policy is clear that we support ensuring the ability of multi-employer collective bargaining, and collective bargaining for contractors. 30 years ago, the Employment Contracts Act 1991 removed sector-wide bargaining from the industrial relations system. According to unionist and workers\u2019 rights advocate Annie Newman, this implemented one of the most radical, individualised employment relations systems in the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EMost developed economies have some form of sector-wide bargaining. Australia\u2019s use of fair pay agreements is one of the reasons they have much higher wages than Aotearoa. For far too long, our people have been treated as second-class citizens in the New Zealand job market\u2014used and abused, working in tough and often inhumane conditions, keeping this country\u2019s economy running. The median M\u0101ori hourly wage is $24.98, compared to $28.01 for our P\u0101keh\u0101 counterparts. Low wages impoverish wh\u0101nau and cause extensive inter-generational harm and trauma. M\u0101ori, Pasifika, young people, and wh\u0101nau hau\u0101 are often over-represented in jobs where low pay, job security, health and safety, and upskilling are significant issues, and with low union coverage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EMinimum industry-wide standards provide baselines regardless of whether you are a member of a union or not. Health and safety problems in industries like forestry, farming, trucking, fisheries often kill M\u0101ori at work. In this House, we should be making people decisions. In this House, we should be making mokopuna decisions. Mokopuna decisions require lifting the material conditions of all wh\u0101nau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EIn 2022, the Government brought back sector-wide bargaining with the Fair Pay Agreements Act 2022, which provided a framework for bargaining for fair pay agreements, industry-wide or occupation-wide minimum employment terms. The Act also set out that each bargaining side will have obligations to use its best endeavours to represent those within coverage, and to ensure that M\u0101ori employees and employers are represented effectively. Every worker and employer has the opportunity to be represented in negotiations and to vote on the agreement itself. Fair pay agreements come into force through a majority ratification of the parties. The reforms did not bring back the controversial elements of the old industrial relations regime, like compulsory unionism. Rather, all workers within affected industries and occupations will see the benefits, not just the union members. The introduction of fair pay agreements in both the private and public sectors would have, over a period of time, significantly lifted wages and employment conditions for workers, particularly low-paid workers, where many wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori are employed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori support the Fair Pay Agreements Act because fair pay agreements would have been one of the most significant policies in lifting the wages of working M\u0101ori. We strongly oppose this bill p\u014D te ao, ao te p\u014D. [at all times.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EIt takes Aotearoa back by locking in the status quo of our last 30 years\u2014a low-wage, precarious job market. As we head into the Christmas period, people are struggling to put food on the table, to pay their bills, to fill up their cars, and to buy their tamariki presents. Right now, this new Government should be focusing on lifting the incomes of wh\u0101nau, not exacerbating the hardships of the hard-working M\u0101ori families. Instead, it focuses on ramming through legislation under urgency that will keep their wages low, and jobs precarious\u2014legislation that will keep them in insecure work with unfair pay and in dangerous conditions. It\u2019s appalling. Every wh\u0101nau in Aotearoa should have enough to live well, and be able to spend their time with their wh\u0101nau, and to work in safe, healthy conditions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ELet me conclude in the words of Dr Ranginui Walker, who said, \u201CI have no time for those in positions of privilege who use their privilege to attack the most vulnerable people in our society\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u002261460e8081eb41789f4a130b00ec2046\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261460e8081eb41789f4a130b00ec2046\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, and congratulations on your new role. There\u2019s a lot of talk in this House this afternoon about Christmas, and maybe so given the Christmas parades I\u2019ve been at recently in H\u0101wera, in P\u0101tea, and in Whanganui. But it\u2019s a falsehood that there\u2019s a massive present being taken away. Indeed, we are giving the present of confidence this Christmas\u2014a confidence in a new 2024. Confidence that there will be a job for that young person wanting someone to take a risk on them and confidence to the employer to take that risk. Confidence to the food market owner in Whanganui who said she would have to close if fair pay agreements went through. And with that closure, the jobs would go with it. To give confidence to employers deciding if they want and will take another risk, and to the young person looking for someone to take a risk on them, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002272476cbee0b94750a9a051d17e8c0c83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272476cbee0b94750a9a051d17e8c0c83\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, we\u2019re hearing some nonsense here this afternoon. The only sense I heard was from my whanaunga over there, Doc, who\u2019s made it very, very clear the effect that this bill will have on M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe know, as M\u0101ori, how we\u2019re always the last hired and the first fired. That\u2019s an undeniable fact. I look up in the audience there and I see our old friend Naida Glavish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a453821d81d442296811f404667f52f\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CDame\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222924d9fb9ceb4b05b7ae79f367b65c93\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Dame? She\u2019s my mate, too. Now, she was a wonderful kaimahi, Naida. Wonderful kaimahi, wonderful member of Mana Motuhake. Her only sin was she didn\u2019t follow me into Labour. She was with me in Mana Motuhake, she was one of my members and one of my candidates and stood for me in the north for Mana Motuhake. Well, I can\u2019t remember what she had made of, but we came second. I\u2019m mentioning her because this is the lady\u2014I just want to tell this to the audience\u2014who was one of our great kaimahi. Well, she should be immortalised, Naida, because she was the one who said \u201Ckia ora\u201D on the phone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfca24cf73cb4f03ac9889b574d34e60\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237ee943f1061410ca5298058f8a8eeaf\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s the \u201Ckia ora\u201D lady.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220093333cf80a4ed9afaec632f33deb18\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Wouldn\u2019t happen now, under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224e20ae228f1405690bb9dfea1b4d885\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5e6e0ce0b0043f988d5ef3a40b6b609\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, what rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c09e7b09174c96939c682e666da6e8\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014National would sack her now. National would sack her. She\u2019d be gone. Gone for all money, our Naida. Maybe then she\u2019d join the Labour Party, I\u2019m not sure. But lovely to have her here today, because when I think about this sort of fair pay bargaining, I take on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9579d263f6042a8a53cded235e71d94\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Willie. [Gestures to gallery]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a5c0153c8284710b938c2ac4b7a5743\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve got all our wh\u0101nau turning up to tautoko our candidates this afternoon who are going to make a statement in terms of their maiden speeches. But they would all be worried about this, because I was a union official for 18 years\u201418 years. [Interruption] I know, because none of the losers on the other side were anything apart from working in offices. I was a freezing workers\u2019 president when I was 21 years of age, so I saw firsthand what was happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2e43d0e9fa0400ca8525a183d049cf3\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: What an achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d62341e463e44145bc8c484c6e602f2a\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well more of an achievement than a mug like yourself. Then, I worked for the cleaners\u2019 union\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281d1c9adfe574298b5dde5b7f0a7c902\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Order! No name calling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272168d9e3678486cb25bddb00f48dedc\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I worked for the service workers\u2019 union, and I worked for the Northern Clerical Workers Union, with my uncle Syd Jackson. We saw firsthand what was happening in terms of the damages to workers at community level\u2014M\u0101ori workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo, in 1991, when Jim Bolger brought in voluntary unionism, we were in shock because it smashed the union movement. So that was in 1991. Jim Bolger brought it in, the architect of voluntary unionism. Who would think in 2018 he would be a champion for the workers? Who would think in 2018 he would be the champion for the workers, for the Greens, for Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, and for the Labour Party? But not for the useless National Party\u2014a party that has betrayed its history\u2014because Jim Bolger said this: \u201CWe believe we have designed a fair pay agreements system which will be most useful in sectors or occupations where competition is driving a \u2018race to the bottom\u2019 in terms of wages and conditions. Fair pay agreements could also be useful where workers and employers identify scope to improve outcomes across a sector or occupation. In particular, I consider that workers and employers will need to work together to find innovative ways to lift productivity.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s from the Rt Hon Jim Bolger, the former leader of the useless National Party. He would be ashamed of this useless lot in front of us today, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c49975e311f74957a389ca1f1184d73e\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Look in the mirror.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241fa07e0e38945c3b178554c09c5d0e5\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, he would be ashamed, particularly of Simeon Brown. He\u2019d look at him and he\u2019d think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e226c7e2398f482c8a216c638e3f4caf\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we won\u2019t make personal attacks. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022109c770b265b4c219cb799c9317b5933\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not trying to be personal. But he is useless, I tell you. So he would be ashamed, though. He would be ashamed because this is the former architect of the fair pay agreements. He chaired\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a93d9945674141875cc7c508b46605\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Who, Michael Wood?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200a5b9882aad4b03abc4b7b7865eda4f\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: A former Prime Minister, Simeon Brown. Nothing\u2014you\u2019ll never get there. I don\u2019t know how you even got where you are now. But a former Prime Minister and leader of the National Party oversaw the fair bargaining process. That\u2019s how far he came.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022708a081f18be4f35889f609cf6acd3a3\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, there was a guy named Michael Wood too. Where\u2019s he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4b0360c36d649f38aa3f5335e4fc002\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Further than that useless person over there will ever get. He oversaw the fair bargaining process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EOf course, he\u2019s quite a supporter of M\u0101ori today, too, unlike this useless lot on the other side. He\u2019s not only talking about fair bargaining agreements; he\u2019s talking about the Treaty, he\u2019s talking about tikanga M\u0101ori, he\u2019s talking about the principles\u2014something they\u2019ve forgotten all about. So he would be ashamed of this lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m saying to this lot over here is: why are you doing this to our workers and our communities? It\u2019s been really made clear by so many people. I think Marama Davidson was on to something. It\u2019s about the money. It has to be about something. Why is this lot conceding to the money men in our society? It just makes no sense. Why would you attack workers in M\u0101ngere, Manurewa, Manukau, West Auckland three weeks before?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222edbfe907e2242e592e828a3aaf4bdd8\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Profit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9e1a510f87841b783d57468b1ad89a9\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: What is it, Marama Davidson? It must be because of all the money men who are backing them. There is no other reason. The power imbalance in this is sad, and the fear of getting sacked will pressure some workers into not joining a union in case the boss uses that as a reason to sack them. That\u2019s without a doubt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis shameful piece of legislation will make it more difficult for workers to join a union and have a direct impact on how unions can promote worker interests. It\u2019s shocking that this group has ignored Treasury advice. Don\u2019t want to know about Treasury advice; regulatory impact statements. \u201CScrutiny, what\u2019s that? Oh, we\u2019ve forgotten all about it. We don\u2019t need a regulatory impact so\u2014doesn\u2019t need it.\u201D Oh no, they don\u2019t need that. They know everything. They are a disgrace. I\u2019m so glad our people are here. It\u2019s good to see you all, because we have a disgraceful Government sitting right in front of you. They don\u2019t care about our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc686c53612b48c98824dfa224258586\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: Not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022901b6b01148c4917a7ac0565ea662336\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s absolutely true. The Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety, Brooke van Velden, has been told that young people, M\u0101ori, and Pasifika people will not benefit with the loss of these fair pay agreements (FPAs). But she continues to know what is right for our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ERepealing the Fair Pay Agreements Act rips all the good work up. It throws that boost out, just so greedy bosses and greedy National Party supporters can exploit workers. That\u2019s what it\u2019s all about. The Minister claims that FPAs are too blunt. Got the right to sack before 90 days\u2014apparently that\u2019s not too blunt. That\u2019s OK\u2014that\u2019s OK. Her and Mr Seymour\u2014they have all this aroha for the workers, but all they want to do is sack them and throw them out before their 90 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThey want to dump a whole regime of collective bargaining. Why do they want to do that? Because they want to change the whole workplace. We know this. They want to continue to negotiate with individuals. They\u2019re not interested in collective bargaining. It\u2019s really easy to negotiate with individuals because most individuals don\u2019t have the background, don\u2019t have the history in terms of being able to negotiate for themselves. They don\u2019t. They\u2019re not like Naida Glavish up there, John Tamihere over here\u2014they want to keep John Tamihere out, I think. These people can stand up for themselves\u2014that\u2019s what this is all about. That\u2019s what collective bargaining is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe need unions. We need groups. We need contracts in place so that workers can feel secure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea3c3a92827f47bb8cd11e1a5c203ac6\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: We need businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022486d0102fde74630889c931a600b76b7\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014not be nailed and smashed over by creeps like Simeon Brown. It\u2019s just not right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I say today to our people who are here: beware of this useless coalition of National, New Zealand First, and ACT. They have no regard for our communities. They can\u2019t even speak for 10 minutes. They can\u2019t even speak for five minutes. They are a disgrace to this nation, and we\u2019re going to get them out in the next two years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u002208ef8de62fb84d7ea3b0884bbd618652\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208ef8de62fb84d7ea3b0884bbd618652\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker O\u2019Connor. I\u2019ll just take this opportunity to commend you and congratulate you on retaining your role\u2014your new role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting, listening to the other side of the House. There seems to be this grand assumption that all employers are bad. It\u2019s really, really frustrating. As an employer myself from the Northland electorate, where I\u2019ve employed people for many, many years, guess what\u2014guess what! My manager has been with me for 16 years. Do you think he\u2019d be hanging around if I didn\u2019t do a good job and he wasn\u2019t on a fair pay arrangement\u2014and he damn well is. He didn\u2019t need to be part of a union to achieve it at all, and my other workers, including a number of M\u0101ori who have worked for me, still to this day also keep in touch. Believe me, I support this bill, and I commend this bill to the House. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad08ff7d7ec54c02bae756260f8234b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad08ff7d7ec54c02bae756260f8234b4\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It says a lot about the values of this new Government that one of the very first things they do on taking office is stick the boot into hospo workers, security guards, cleaners, port workers, early childhood teachers, supermarket workers. Fair pay agreements were a long overdue reform to the bargaining system in this country; a set of minimum standards to ensure that some of our hardest-working people could get ahead. We\u2019re talking about people who often work multiple jobs in industries that are casualised. They work longer hours than almost anybody in this building, they are predominantly the young, they are mostly women, and they are mostly M\u0101ori and Pasifika workers, and this Government sticks the boot into them in its first couple of weeks in office. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ELow pay is at the heart of so many of this country\u2019s problems. Poverty and all of the problems that go with it\u2014the stress, the anxiety, the reduced life expectancy, the poor health. Modern Governments spend all their time cleaning up the messes caused by low pay. But does this Government want to actually do something about it and miss out the middleman and actually pay people more? No, they actually want to drive wages down. They talk about getting people off welfare and into work, right? But when it comes to a law that will actually help people earn more at work and be less reliant on the welfare system, do they want to do something about it? No. They want to get rid of that law. The so-called party of free enterprise; they are happier having the taxpayer subsidise employers to pay starvation wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe spend $2 billion a year in this country subsidising rents because people can\u2019t earn enough to pay the rent\u2014multiple billions of dollars every year because employers don\u2019t pay high enough wages. It\u2019s not a socialist idea to want people to earn enough to live and help their kids to survive, so why not allow people to earn enough to live? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve sat here listening to members on that side of the House talk about productivity. Productivity is not about allowing a race to the bottom, driving down wages. This country will never get ahead competing internationally on the basis of low wages of our workers. Italy, France, Germany, Australia\u2014they all have nationwide systems of minimum standards for pay and conditions to stop a race to the bottom. Minister, have you looked at the productivity indicators in Australia and France and Germany and Italy? How are they doing? They\u2019re doing a lot better than us because they believe in driving wages up, not pushing them down. We cannot build a modern economy by trying to compete on the basis of low wages. When wages are as low as they are in New Zealand right now, employers inevitably chose to hire cheap labour instead of investing in the technology, the plant, the capital, that will really drive productivity up. That\u2019s why our productivity is much lower than in Australia, because New Zealand firms don\u2019t invest in technology to improve productivity. They are happier employing cheap labour, and when they don\u2019t need it any more, they send people down the road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThis bill is a hatchet job on quarter of a million of the hardest-working New Zealanders; the bus drivers, the early childhood teachers, supermarket workers, the cleaners, the security guards. We rely on these people; we should allow them to earn enough to live on, to raise a family, and live a decent life. This bill will make New Zealanders poorer, it takes away their opportunity to get ahead. It will actually drive down productivity, and it will take this country backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022217ad0a1ca40481daaeb4838855ed493\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022217ad0a1ca40481daaeb4838855ed493\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the repeal of the fair pay agreements. This legislation will hit small businesses after three years of agony and angst. This bill is what is driving us; this bill is about reducing the costs on business\u2014small businesses. The Opposition says it\u2019s all about the rich and powerful. Well, can I remind them that 97 percent of businesses in New Zealand are small businesses\u2014those that employ fewer than 20 people. There are 546,000 of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThis is a key part of our 100-day action plan. And if they\u2019d gone campaigning in small town New Zealand or in and around small businesses, they would be feeling that in the last three years small businesses have been living off dignity, doggedness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229069113a5c9a4354b1cbde35a2147f20\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Your constituents will suffer because of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c346e3a9fe743e590923145981d3821\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, look at this. These are the very people\u2014the people that they purport to represent are the ones that they\u2019ve hurt the most in the last six years, and now they\u2019re trying to retrospectively fix it. They have got survivor\u2019s guilt; they kept their jobs and their voters haven\u2019t, and so they\u2019re now coming back in Opposition and trying to do everything that they didn\u2019t. But it\u2019s too late\u2014it\u2019s too late. We are the party of small businesses, we are former small-business owners, and, after six years of destruction, we\u2019re going to get this country back to where it is. It\u2019s a country of small business\u2014that\u2019s who we\u2019re backing. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00225922ab0af45941fb962146a05c9b0c61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225922ab0af45941fb962146a05c9b0c61\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s always a privilege to take a call in this House, but I don\u2019t do so today with any great pride, to be honest, in this House, having heard some of the debate this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI want to put on record that I come from a place of privilege, and there are a lot of people in this House who do come from a place of privilege, and I think it is incumbent on all of us to be able to recognise that and recognise that our job in this House is to do the work and to do the mahi for the people who are the most vulnerable in our community. That is one of the reasons why I\u2019ve come to this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAcross the other side of the House, whenever the word \u201Cunion\u201D is mentioned, there\u2019s a lot of scoffing. So I\u2019m going to talk just a little bit about some of the work I did as a union organiser\u2014wait for the scoffing\u2014the real work, like sitting in the office of a supermarket manager with a woman close to retirement age. Yeah, it\u2019s interesting watching the people across on the other side laugh. It\u2019s not funny, the story I\u2019m about to tell here, Katie Nimon\u2014it\u2019s not funny. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022802874a3-deca-48b7-9d33-9087058892f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228811091f5bb2463799e768b3b430543a\u0022\u003EHon Kelvin Davis\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s just their white privilege kicking in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f06c156c38d848719ffe1b022c983119\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, this is where the privilege does kick in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019m talking about a woman in her sixties working for a large supermarket chain, being threatened with losing her job. Do you know why? Because, while working for close to the minimum wage, she wasn\u2019t stacking shelves fast enough. Now, this is actually an Australian company that she worked for, making millions of dollars of profit, and they were saying to this woman, \u201CYou are going to lose your job because you\u2019re not stacking those shelves fast enough.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis was the sort of thing I saw in my role, time and time again. I\u2019m proud of that work. I\u2019m proud of the fact that even though I studied employment relations at university, even though I studied this and I could have gone down the HR track, I chose to stand on the side of people who are often the most vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo I want to take members opposite and just remind them of the Employment Relations Act 2000 and one of the sections contained within that wasn\u2019t repealed by the previous National Government. If you look at section 3, \u201CObject of this Act\u201D, you will see that one of the things it states is \u201C(a)(ii) by acknowledging and addressing the inherent inequality of power in employment relationships;\u201D, and, furthermore, to promote collective bargaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EHaving actually studied the subject at university\u2014and one of the things that I hear this Government often talking about is wanting to be evidence-based. Well, let\u2019s talk about the evidence. The evidence says, particularly for women, that if you negotiate as a group, you get higher wages than if you do it on your own. That\u2019s particularly true for women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s an amazing woman called Marjorie Corman Aaron, who actually found through research that a woman who went in and negotiated aggressively for higher pay was the least likely to get hired. But a man who went in and aggressively negotiated the pay was most likely to get hired. This is real research\u2014this is the truth of the matter. So women, in particular, by negotiating together as a group, end up doing better for all of them. And that\u2019s one of the reasons I\u2019m so proud to stand on this side of the House\u2014because it\u2019s not about me; it\u2019s about we. It\u2019s about all of us, and that\u2019s one of the values that we hold. It\u2019s not about what that one individual gets; it\u2019s actually about what we do for all workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m going to talk a little bit about some of the work I did in the supermarket industry and a particular woman who used to vote for the other side of the House but doesn\u2019t now because she saw what they are really like. I\u2019m talking about a wonderful woman called Jenny Wells who was a delegate at Pak \u2019N Save in Nelson. Jenny has had strokes recently, and even though she had a stroke, she still had to keep working because she wasn\u2019t earning enough money. She hadn\u2019t earned enough money working at that supermarket to have decent savings. She went back to work because her husband was sick and couldn\u2019t go to work. She went back to work. The business was sold from one owner to another, and she actually lost terms and conditions through that sale. She lost her time and a half. She lost other penal rates and other extra pieces of annual leave when that business was sold. Now, that\u2019s a multimillion-dollar business\u2014multimillion-dollar business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAnd what we saw during saw COVID was a lot of people wanting to congratulate our supermarket workers. But do you know what they did? They sent them cards, they sent them chocolates, but, actually, what those supermarket workers need, especially when the supermarkets absolutely creamed it, is decent pay. And we even saw some supermarkets temporarily increase pay by 10 percent and then at the end of the lockdown say, \u201COh no, sorry, you\u2019re not worth that anymore. We\u2019re going to take that away from you.\u201D, and there was community outrage about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo one of the issues with the duopoly in the supermarket sector is that we have Countdown, which is an Australian-owned company. They do have a collective agreement in place and the workers in that supermarket normally earn around $2 an hour more than those in a Pak \u2019N Save or a New World, which are New Zealand - owned. That profit from Countdown\u2014well, it\u2019s now called Woolworths\u2014goes back to Australia. We don\u2019t see it in New Zealand. It goes back across the Ditch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe profit for those locally owned New Zealand supermarkets, which, seriously, print millions of dollars of money each year, goes back into the pocket of an individual owner. But for those workers, who work their butts off\u2014and I think every single one of us can walk into a supermarket and know that those people in that supermarket are working their absolute butts off\u2014there has been an enormous amount of difficulty getting collective agreements into Pak \u2019N Save and New World. Part of the reason is that the law does not support that to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EEven in my patch\u2014I had an email from someone working in this area who\u2019d been trying to get a collective agreement for up to eight years. So for people to say \u201CYou can just work it out.\u201D, eight years of just trying to work it out hasn\u2019t worked. The person wrote to me and said that the Fair Pay Agreements Act was built for cases like this where employers who subvert the intent of the law in bad faith are surface bargaining in order to create a protracted process and undermine the collective will of the workers. A fair pay agreement (FPA) would mean that these workers would get an actual increase in wages, better working conditions, penalty rates for giving up family time on nights and weekends, and much better health and safety provisions. That the Government is attempting to repeal them in haste, under the cover of urgency, and without due process is a failure of their responsibilities to the working people of Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis pre-Christmas move would make the Grinch grin to ear to ear, as the Government steals FPAs out of the pockets of hard-working Kiwis. I thought that was an excellent email, just demonstrating\u2014I see people are laughing again, and I honestly can\u2019t believe that people are laughing. I\u2019ve known supermarket workers who, well before we had challenges around the cost of living, were having to go to a food bank\u2014a food bank. So for people to think this is funny\u2014you know, they laughed before when my colleague Camilla Belich was talking about security guards who die on the job. They die on the job\u2014they get stabbed. People, again, are laughing when I talk about security guards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9af799bdfc14b3b9cc4d6503cd639da\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s really inappropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233727bac78ff4e12ab3c29038cd1c712\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s really inappropriate, and it really, really bothers me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EBut here are some other words I\u2019ve had from supermarket workers today. A man who works for a New World told me today that \u201Ca fair pay agreement is important to me and my co-workers because it gives us financial stability to pay bills for our kids and our homes. We shouldn\u2019t struggle to make ends meet when supermarkets profit more each year.\u201D Another one said, \u201CI work night fill, often six nights a week. I start at 10 and usually finish around 7\u2014it\u2019s very unsocial hours. The job involves heavy labour and we are often made to work at a fast pace. It is very tiring. Having a fair pay agreement will allow me a much better work-life balance and allow me to spend more time with friends and family, to work fewer shifts for the same money.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOn Friday, I spent some time with early childhood education workers, who are one of the groups that have a fair pay agreement in train. There\u2019s been much said about the pay of early childhood workers for many years. They have also worked towards pay equity, pay parity with other teachers, but also the importance of having enough qualified teachers within that sector so that we have enough good quality teachers earning proper wages who are able to then look after our youngest. This is the type of worker that the repeal of this law is going to undermine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo I remind members across the whole House that we are here for all New Zealanders but particularly for the most vulnerable, and I do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u00226a7da7183b414874a70a516d5c47a8af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a7da7183b414874a70a516d5c47a8af\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I have heard from small and medium business owners across the Wairarapa electorate that are suffering as a result of the last Government\u2019s poor legislation. They don\u2019t have the same capacity to absorb blanket, top-down costs that large businesses do, and they\u2019re suffering right now from the cost of living crisis inherited from over there that is strangling our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EEmployers within our communities have a relationship with their employees that\u2019s built on trust\u2014trust that the employer and employees uphold; trust that they will behave fairly and reasonably to each other. There\u2019s trust that rates of pay and working conditions reflect the market, the industry, and the location. Owners of small and medium enterprises in the Wairarapa electorate have a personal relationship with their staff. They often go to school together. They shop at the same supermarket together. A high level of trust is a feature of the employment in small towns and our rural communities, and one that we should endeavour to encourage and support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003ECrushing small businesses with unnecessary legislation will impoverish businesses, business owners, and local workers in my electorate. Repealing the Fair Pay Agreements Act will bring some relief to small businesses who are already suffering under the cost of living crisis. Both\u2014[Suze Redmayne passes the member a note]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4943ad1192f4ab3a064f906d9976419\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Speak from the heart!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207d8fb05f4cc401699b91656ec6b2fca\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for the advice. Both National and ACT campaigned strongly against the introduction of fair pay agreements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287aab610af77497397e3db0edbcd8a8a\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sit down, man\u2014sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022016ace469a394beea7cc3907b3ecbf6b\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for the further advice from over the other side of the House. Businesses need the flexibility\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ce79f0ba20b4387919b4758a7e93db6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, excuse me. I think if the member was aware of the timings that have been agreed by the House, he might not have so much to say about the current process. As someone who does ask us to make concessions at various times, you know, I would ask him to show us some indulgence at this point. I could speak for longer if I had to, but I\u2019ll go back to Mike Butterick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223202ff48e27748768ed46262fc87f917\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Businesses need the flexibility to innovate if New Zealand is going to compete on the world stage. We\u2019re a trading nation and our economic viability depends on it. Workplace flexibility is also a priority for workers, especially workers seeking a better work-life balance. We all want higher wages and better conditions, especially during a cost of living crisis. But under fair pay agreements, the cost of doing business would have increased and the price of the goods and services that businesses provide would have increased as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003ELabour, the Greens, and the unions said fair pay agreements would be good for workers, but they were likely to have the opposite effect. Employers would have hired fewer workers or they would have reduced the number of hours they offered existing workers. Some businesses would have increased their rate of automation, reducing their reliance on workers. Some businesses would be at risk of closure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been some talk about the Government ignoring advice on this legislation. The most important thing to know about the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2019s advice is that they recommended against introducing fair pay agreements, arguing that the improvements for employees would be marginal and would be achieved at a significant cost to employer flexibility, and a blunt tool like fair pay agreements would not have been successful at improving employment outcomes for disadvantaged workers. Disadvantaged workers would actually have been made worse off under fair pay agreements because businesses would have hired fewer people or reduced the hours of work offered to existing workers because of the costs imposed on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EWithout increasing productivity, businesses can only afford so much without having to raise prices, lay off staff, or close down completely. The previous Government made hiring staff too difficult, too expensive, and disincentivised employers from taking risks. New Zealand\u2019s small and medium businesses are bursting with entrepreneurship, creativity, and innovation, and deserve a Government that empowers them because that\u2019s how we create opportunities. Thank you. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022090f4c9cdce849b1914bec298f46d866\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000918\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd834362fd094ed397735ad908a0a03b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd834362fd094ed397735ad908a0a03b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: At this point, we would normally be going into committee stages, and that would be a little bit of kerfuffle just a few seconds ahead of an agreed time for a maiden speech. So we\u2019ll just take a moment and then I\u2019ll call the member for a maiden speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bcfd096ee7754dc285b165a8f4079c3c\u0022\u003EMaiden Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d658ec954ec24632bd29b85f83420c67\u0022\u003EMaiden Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022c94fb6e286ff45ceadbe1dbe335645b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c94fb6e286ff45ceadbe1dbe335645b3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call Mariameno Kapa-Kingi to make her maiden speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022d49fe3e31e094d01bd3436b39f4b73a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d49fe3e31e094d01bd3436b39f4b73a4\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Te rangi e t\u016B nei, te papa e hora nei, tihei mauri ora ki te whei ao, ki te ao m\u0101rama. E tangi nei ki te rahi o te p\u014D, r\u0101tou ki a r\u0101tou. Ko t\u0101tou t\u0113nei ki te kaupapa o te ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EKei aku rangatira o Te \u0100tiawa, o Taranaki \u2018H\u0101nui e pupuri nei i te mana o te \u2018henua, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Huri noa, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te \u2018hakaminenga e tau nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E[The sky that stands here, the land that lies here, the breath of life to the emerging world, to the world of light. I grieve for the many of the night, they who congregate together. We are those of the living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ETo my noble leaders of Te \u0100tiawa, of Taranaki \u2018H\u0101nui who hold the mana of the land, greetings. All around (the House), greetings to the assembly gathered here.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Over 180 years ago, my t\u016Bpuna Te M\u0101hia, Tupe, Ururoa, and Hongi signed He \u2019Hakaputanga. Wiki Taitimu, and Par\u0101one Ng\u0101ruhe furthered this legacy in signing Te Tiriti, a legacy of mana tuku iho. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EHere I stand, part of the 54th iteration of a New Zealand Government as a mokopuna of Eparaima Kapa, member of the 11th New Zealand Government as well as M\u0101ori Parliament over 130 years ago. He advocated for the rights of women, and here I am as the first wahine to take the Tai Tokerau seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI also stand here as an uri of a man whose photo still shines in the corner of my t\u016Bpuna \u2019hare Waimirirangi (Haere-ki-te R\u0101), Matiu Rata, the very reason the Waitangi Tribunal exists, which also, only at the weekend gone, handed over a key report to my people of Ng\u0101puhi, further embedding the truth that we never ceded sovereignty, and our whenua as well as constitutional power must come back to us. Matiu aptly described the tribunal as a charter for tangata whenua rights, and here I am, continuing the fight for those rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ELooking back on this important \u2019hakapapa, it\u2019s humbling to realise my place in the enduring pursuit of tino rangatiratanga, a pursuit clearly measured in generations. I also follow on the footsteps of other formidable M\u0101ori leaders such as Mira Sz\u00E1szy, Whina Cooper, Titewhai Harawira\u2014no walk in the park. It is more like a marathon at an AGM at your favourite marae\u2014the best training ground ever for an aspiring MP, I might add. Moreover, this is an honour and a privilege that I\u2019m taking seriously with both hands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWhen I left the House last Friday, I went directly to Te Tii Marae, to Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hua. A dear kaum\u0101tua and colleague lay in state, Waitai Tua, and I was determined to tell him off for leaving us at such a critical time. In usual tikanga style, we were called on to the marae. We were able to complain to him profusely. We were able to celebrate him and send him off with great song. The whole time there I was thinking, what would Waitai expect me to do and say as I head into my new job? He would want me to fight furiously for the things that only we as M\u0101ori know are important to us and let no one else describe our past nor prescribe our future. That is ours and ours alone. He would say to me: fight for us, Meno, and I plan to do exactly that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe following day I turned up at Te Whare R\u016Bnanga in Waitangi to support my people of Whangaroa and other hap\u016B o Ng\u0101puhi in receiving the hugely important report from the tribunal, which I mentioned earlier. In my opinion, the whole motu should have been there, because if Ng\u0101puhi never ceded sovereignty, no iwi or hap\u016B in the motu ceded sovereignty. The necessary recalibration of an Aotearoa constitutional framework, as recommended by the tribunal, inevitably pulls in all iwi across these islands. Heoi an\u014D, perhaps that w\u0101nanga will come to bear this coming Waitangi Day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESunday morning, I drove to Te Kao, to fulfil my final formal duties, for now at least, to my iwi of Te Aup\u014Duri at our annual general meeting. The marae was full of wh\u0101nau expectant with lots of questions and ideas of their own. I also want to acknowledge my relation, Minister Jones, aka Matua Shane. Even if we are at opposite ends politically, whakapapa is a beautiful and peculiar thing in that it reminds us of who we are collectively and in our obligations of aroha t\u0113tahi ki t\u0113tahi [love for each other]. I hope and expect that aroha rings true in many forms across this whole Parliament as things move forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D, I provide this snapshot of my last three days, Mr Speaker, because it exposes the inner workings of the kaupapa and it is a clear reminder to me of what is central to te ao M\u0101ori. These days reflect what is possible when we are unafraid and free to express our potential. We call that tapu i te tangata [the sanctity of humanity]. When we treasure te reo M\u0101ori, when we know and understand how to apply our own rules and regulations, we call that tikanga M\u0101ori. When we understand and cherish the life-death life cycle, we call that hauora M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWe cannot be stopped. We are our own walking, talking solutions and aspirations as M\u0101ori. We know how critical our t\u016Bpuna are to our mokopuna. We name that \u2019hakapapa. We acknowledge the value of cultural capital. We are vigorous in the mission of economic emancipation; let that sink in. We are the first conservationists. We are tangata whenua. We are the ones that we have been waiting for; no one else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI belong to all these wonderful people sitting in the gallery, and many, many more, even some over here and some over there. I\u2019m heartened that they came today to deliver me into this House, into the lion\u2019s den. What I know of lions is that it is the lionesses that do the hunting and, might I add, keep house. So it seems I find myself in the right place, ready to do my job in the way that they would have me do so: relentless, fearless, and ready to protect or pounce whatever may come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EAlong with my nine siblings, we were raised by two extremely hard-working M\u0101ori-speaking parents. Like many wh\u0101nau living in their rohe in the 1960s, we were swept up in the M\u0101ori urban diaspora, forced by meticulous and deliberate Government policy of assimilation. Desperate times indeed to find work and survive in a P\u0101keh\u0101 economy meant we lost our physical connection to our whenua in Te Hiku \u0101 tai ki Whangaroa, the closest you can ever get to heaven, as my kaum\u0101tua would describe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EMy parents were also of the generation who were abused for speaking M\u0101ori. Now, I mention this because I know what it is to grow up in a home trying to fit the mould of hard-working and good citizens, which was code for being anything other than themselves. They were forced to mute their voice, cast off their cultural practices, force-fed a foreign persona, and, to clinch it all, shun their culture. My parents, like many others, were not only stopped from speaking M\u0101ori but they were also stopped from being M\u0101ori. On balance, colonisation ruins a people, destroys their place and corrupts their identity, and expects that you be grateful for the opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ELike many other wh\u0101nau, the focus was mostly work, school, sport, church, community, and house and home. Becoming more politically savvy or understanding history and impacts on M\u0101ori community\u2014Treaty breaches were not exactly the priority for our wh\u0101nau; surviving was. My parents did their absolute best against the tide. Eventually, alongside others, my mum started a k\u014Dhanga reo, which was part of her own liberation as much as replacing her 10 children, who had grown and flown the coop, with 30 M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 children wanting to speak and understand M\u0101ori. My dad still struggled with the cultural renaissance movement, having been raised himself by a father dedicated to his church. Despite all these difficulties, I knew that I was understood and loved by my parents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWords like \u201Ccolonisation\u201D and \u201Coppression\u201D were not commonly understood, let alone discussed in general at our at our dinner table as kids. But those are conversations I\u2019ve normalised with my own kids, to help them make sense of their world and their reality. I seem to have skipped the picture-book phase and gone straight to writings such as Pedagogy of the Oppressed. Now, our four grown-up babies, Heemi, Tipene, Eru, and T\u014Drerenuiarua, have taken rank in the resistance and are living versions of mine and their t\u016Bpunas\u2019 highest aspirations. They are the improved and evolved version of Korotangi and I, and further growth will come in the form of their own children, my mokopuna, present and to come. They are in the gallery, watching and probably praying that their mother doesn\u2019t go on too long in her first speech. But, quietly, they will be feeling as proud and honoured as I am of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EHe \u2018Hakaputanga and Te Tiriti were also not words I heard growing up, but now they are as commonplace as ever, and there is no force in this world that can change that. Even P\u0101keh\u0101 are working at waking up to our truth, as enshrined in these kawenata tapu [sacred covenants]. The rest are still catching up, it seems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EIn the same way that words can destroy worlds, they can also create them. Words of liberation will continue to ring in these halls. So as long as I sit in this seat, that I can promise. That is my role here: to speak relentlessly the words that have long been suppressed in our hearts and minds, to engineer a world where my mokopuna are happy, healthy, and free to live out their M\u0101ori lives with absolutely no inhibition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EMy work experience is another thing that has led me here. I\u2019ve worked for some 40 years in the social justice and health sector, focusing on women and children, with my very first volunteer role with the Rape Crisis. Over the years, I\u2019ve worked with community groups, rural adult education, community agencies, youth-care protection, and so on, and most recently with iwi M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EBeing of service is something I love to do, and I\u2019ve become good at it. To me, that is what \u201Crangatiratanga\u201D means\u2014it is not the pursuit of status but instead the pursuit of the tea towel at the marae. It is about showing up when required for your people and doing your bit for the kaupapa, whatever it might look like. There is rangatiratanga in everything, from diving for kina and k\u014Dura, or putting out the net for kanae to feed the people at the hui, to political action for our rights. I encourage us all to find our lane, e te iwi, and I\u2019m confident that I\u2019ve found mine here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge mentors aplenty I\u2019ve had. And I intend to find them in this House, and, hopefully, become one for others, like the likes of Erima Henare, Rob Cooper, Gwen Tepania-Palmer, and Timi and Georgina te Heuheu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ETo be part of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori is an easy choice for me. The only party which is, through and through, about the kaupapa. The only party that will fight ruthlessly for te iwi M\u0101ori to the death\u2014political or otherwise. I\u2019m proud to be part of this rejuvenated movement, and excited to see how our younger generation will carry it forward into years to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EOne k\u014Drero I\u2019ll never forget from my father-in-law, Wikuki Kingi: no person is bigger than the kaupapa. I will also say that without people, there\u2019s no kaupapa, which also reflects the famous saying of my tipuna Meri Ngaroto: \u201CHe t\u0101ngata, he t\u0101ngata, he t\u0101ngata.\u201D [It is the people, it is the people, it is the people.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo to all the people\u2014past, present, and future\u2014who make and will continue to make a new world, kia kaha r\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWaiata\u2014\u201CToro mai t\u014D ringa\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EHaka\u2014\u201CKa eke i te w\u012Bw\u012B\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022341d4ae0c9c147bcab6221dce991d567\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022341d4ae0c9c147bcab6221dce991d567\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: At the conclusion of the next maiden speech, the House will suspend for the dinner break. When the House resumes its sitting at 7 p.m., the House will go into committee for the consideration of the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill. We\u2019ll just wait for a few minutes to see what happens here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022 data-id=\u0022b735d07cb6f446318bd85ed63455f50f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b735d07cb6f446318bd85ed63455f50f\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EN\u014D wai te reo e\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EKaranga i te takutai moana? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EN\u014D te M\u0101ngai o ng\u0101 ariki\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EE hora nei i te ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E[Whose is the voice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThat calls from the seashore?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EIt belongs to the Holy Mouthpiece of the lords\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EWho spread health.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003ETe Matua, Tama, Wairua Tapu me ng\u0101 Anahera Pono, ko te M\u0101ngai hei tautoko mai \u0101ianei, \u0101ke nei, \u0101e. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EE ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, e ng\u0101 iwi m\u014Drehu maha, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. E kui m\u0101, e koro m\u0101, ng\u0101 orangatanga ake r\u0101tou m\u0101 kua whet\u016Brangihia, t\u0113nei t\u0101 koutou tamaiti e mihi atu ki t\u014D ao hurihuri, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 mai t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EKo au te wai, te wai ko au, ko t\u0101hekenga wai o runga, ka rere ng\u0101 wai o raro, ka pari ng\u0101 wai o waho, ka p\u016Bheke ng\u0101 wai o roto, ka maringi ng\u0101 wai o uta, ka teretere ng\u0101 wai o tai, ko au ko Takutai Moana. Tihei mauri wai, tihei mauri ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EE kore au e ngaro, he k\u0101kano i ruia mai i Rangi\u0101tea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E[The Father, Son, Holy Spirit and the Faithful Angels, the Holy Mouthpiece in support now and forever, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003ETo the authorities, the representatives, the many surviving peoples, greetings to you all. To the matriarchs, the patriarchs, the lives of those who have passed on, here is your child acknowledging your every changing world, greetings to you, greetings to all of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EI am the water, the water is me, the water from above cascades, the water from below flows, the water from outside rises, the water within surges, the water inland pours, the water at sea rushes, I am Takutai Moana. The breath of the water, the breath of life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EI will never be lost, I am a seed sown from Rangi\u0101tea.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EI come from an institution o te ahik\u0101roa, and this is my story of how I arrived here as the elected MP for T\u0101maki Makaurau. I humbly but proudly stand here as your new MP for T\u0101maki Makaurau. I may be new to this Whare, but I am not new to the wh\u0101nau ora kaupapa and the challenges we continue to face as M\u0101ori, and particularly the challenges for my T\u0101maki Makaurau wh\u0101nau wh\u0101nui. I feel fortunate to be afforded this opportunity by my people. I was brought up surrounded with aroha and connection. I discovered what love, strength, protection, and support looked and felt like. Now more than ever it is pivotal that I bring the same all-encompassing concepts of wh\u0101nau ora and passion to this Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EIn te ao M\u0101ori, to know who you are and to know where you are from is to know where you are going. I wish to acknowledge my whakapapa and those that got me here today. They\u2019re all here in this Whare. I am the m\u0101t\u0101mua of Clark Karaka Kauika-Stevens and Ngaire Anne Te Hirata Kauika-Stevens n\u00E9e Steedman. I was named Takutai Moana after my father\u2019s mother, Takutai Moana Nora Wirihana Tawiki. Both my parents were hard-working, community focused, wh\u0101nau-driven, and very, very loving parents. I want to acknowledge my parents, today, who are here. This is where my wh\u0101nau ora seed was sown. Raised by my grandparents, my nana Takutai Moana was my world. She had 18 siblings, a descendant of Ng\u0101ti Pourua, Ng\u0101 Rauru, and Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto. She was given that name when she was baptised as a m\u014Drehu of the R\u0101tana faith. Nana married my papa, Temanea Turereao Sonny Kauika-Stevens, also of Ng\u0101ti Pourua and Ng\u0101 Rauru. Together these Ng\u0101ti Pourua born and bred veterans raised not one or two but 24 children; six of their own and the rest were my dad\u2019s first cousins. I was brought up with them and they are my village. Many are here today, surrounding this Whare. T\u0113nei te mihi ki a koutou \u014Dku m\u0101tua, \u014Dku wa\u2019ine, \u014Dku k\u0101ti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E[This is an acknowledgment of you my patriarchs, my matriarchs, my cousins.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EMy father enlisted in the Corps of the Royal New Zealand Engineers and was posted to Linton army camp in 1977. The following year, the waka pakanga of our wh\u0101nau arrived\u2014my sister Leaara Jade T\u0101rete Tangituohu, t\u0113nei te mihi nui ki a koe e taku tuahine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EFrom Marton to Singapore as Dad served, I then headed to Takirau marae in Wait\u014Dtara Valley, South Taranaki, to be raised by my grandparents at seven years old, as it is common tikanga for the eldest mokopuna to be brought up by their grandparents in te ao M\u0101ori. Nana and Papa had returned home to Ng\u0101ti Pourua to rebuild Takirau marae and to build our wh\u0101nau papa k\u0101inga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThis was the start of my marae upbringing as I lived there and attended Ngamatapouri School. Takirau is where I was immersed in tikanga M\u0101ori and brought up to manaaki people, particularly under the leadership of my grandmother. She made many decisions for the mahi that needed to be done, even from her bed. Takirau was a busy marae. We had many hui and w\u0101nanga including hosting international manuhiri. Papa taught taiaha and had rongo\u0101 w\u0101nanga with Auntie Olive Bullock; waiata w\u0101nanga with Uncle Dalvanius Prime, Morvin, Simon, and Uncle Rongopai Broughton, and many others. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EMy papa and Uncle Dalvanius composed a waiata together called \u201CPupurutia\u201D, which was recorded by Moana and the Moahunters. It\u2019s a waiata about retaining and passing on te reo M\u0101ori me \u014Dna tikanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EKia mau ki te reo M\u0101ori, \u0101kona \u0101 koutou tamariki, he reo, he reo rangatira n\u0101 te Matua i runga i te rangi, pupuritia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E[Hold onto the M\u0101ori language, teach your children, it is a language, a noble language from the Father in the heavens above, hold onto it.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EIt is ironic that we still to this day are debating whether we use or speak te reo M\u0101ori in this very House. Toit\u016B te kupu; toit\u016B te reo M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E[Long live the word; long live the M\u0101ori language.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EEverything I know can be attributed to my upbringing at Takirau marae, our wh\u0101nau, our ahi k\u0101. At 10 years old, I was in charge of two of the most crucial jobs on our marae, the logistics of the pantry and our wharekai, and in charge of all my cousins. Don\u2019t ask the ones sitting up there, but they know it\u2019s true. I will always be grateful for my wh\u0101nau who raised me a home on my whenua, surrounded by my cousins; we\u2019re proud to be M\u0101ori. Even though my papa was a composer of waiata and karakia, my grandparents never spoke or taught M\u0101ori to us. This was because Nana was beaten by her teachers at Orangimea School in the Wait\u014Dtara Valley for speaking M\u0101ori. Like so many of their generation, the trauma and suffering experienced at the hands of our then Government\u2014they never spoke te reo to us, their mokopuna, even on our marae. I want to mihi to my mother\u2019s grandparents, Rongokino and Paora Hekenui, Koko Mum and Koko Dad known to many of us, who are influential in the revitalisation of te reo M\u0101ori through Te W\u0101nanga o Raukawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EToday, from the removal of bilingual signage on our national roads to rearranging the names of Government agencies, the immediate actions of this coalition signals a strong reluctance to treasure our national language and taonga tuku iho. The potential impact this Government can have on a whole generation saddens me but also provides the drive and determination to show up for our mokopuna and hold steadfast in the face of adversity. I look forward to being an unapologetic voice in this Whare as we face this adversity. This is our new reality, and we will not be silent bystanders. E t\u016B rangatira mai i t\u0113tehi whakatupuranga, i t\u0113tehi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E[Stand tall from one generation to the next.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EI returned to my parents when I was 11 years old and went to Monrad Intermediate School at Palmerston North and strengthened my hononga to the R\u0101tana Church. My wh\u0101nau are m\u014Drehu; my papa Sonny Kauika-Stevens, my great-grandfather Paora Hekenui were \u0101potoro. I spent many years at R\u0101tana P\u0101 and I mihi to the Tirikatene wh\u0101nau. My papa\u2019s mother Huatahi Peina Hawira and my great-grandfather\u2019s sister Mariana Hekenui were part of the r\u014Dp\u016B that travelled with Tahu Potiki Wiremu R\u0101tana on his world tour in 1924. These two kuia remind me of my own wh\u0101nau connections to a significant piece of history concerning the Tiriti grievances. The party of 38 left R\u0101tana P\u0101 on 9\u00A0April 1924, returning on 24 December, after touring Britain, the US, Canada, and Asia. R\u0101tana carried a petition on the Treaty of Waitangi and land confiscations to present to King George V and the League of Nations. R\u0101tana was searching for mutual remedies for the troubles that the Government put on M\u0101ori. Again, it is ironic that today in this Whare, 100 years later, we are fighting for the same Treaty grievances\u2014toit\u016B Te Tiriti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003ELike my father\u2019s wh\u0101nau, my mother\u2019s Steedman and Hekenui wh\u0101nau from Taihape are also Te Ahik\u0101roa and continue to uphold their roles in this institution of governance and beneficiary roles with determined passion. This is reflected through our wh\u0101nau contributions and participation in the hearings of our iwi claims against the Crown for breaches of Te Tiriti. My mother and two sisters attended all of these hearings with my cousins, and I led the rangatahi voice to support my mother\u2019s submission regarding the loss of te reo M\u0101ori. To quote my sister\u2019s words, \u201CWhakahokia mai t\u014Dku whenua, t\u014Dku whakapapa kia whakapiki ai t\u014Dku wh\u0101nau me t\u014Dku wairua.\u201D\u2014return our lands and our identity to uplift our wh\u0101nau and spirit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u201CTe iwi roa o te motu\u201D is a statement used in our current settlement negotiations for M\u014Dkai P\u0101tea, and it refers to our iwi and our resources being the backbone of this country to this day\u2014resources that continue to be used by the New Zealand Defence Force\u2019s Wai\u014Duru military training area, the Tongariro power scheme construction, and use of the Moawhango Dam and awa, State Highway 1, and the main trunk railway that runs through our rohe. Incredibly, 74 percent, or 58,000 hectares, of our M\u0101ori-owned land are landlocked with no legal access, although the Government is the neighbour for much of this land. The expectation is that our settlement returns our land and our identity\u2014whakahokia mai t\u014Dku whenua me \u014Dku whakapapa\u2014it empowers our wh\u0101nau and uplifts our spirits\u2014kia whakapiki ai t\u014Dku wh\u0101nau me t\u014Dku wairua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000986\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EI mihi to my whanaunga Tama Potaka\u2014our wh\u0101nau are watching us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EAt 14, we moved from the whenua to T\u0101maki-makau-rau. I soon left school to study at Auckland University, Te W\u0101nanga o Raukawa, with a focus on anthropology, health, education, and m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori. I worked as a community health worker supporting teenage hap\u016B m\u0101m\u0101, working for Putea o Pua midwifery support services in \u014Ct\u0101huhu alongside the infamous leader and rangatira Syd Jackson. I was fortunate; he mentored me for many years. He always said to me, \u201CTarsh, look after your people; they in turn will do anything for you.\u201D\u2014manaakitanga 101 is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EIn 1995, I had my son Temanea Ereru Kauika-Quinlan, and two years later my daughter Tania-Jade Waimarie Kauika-Fairbrother. They have brought a new understanding to love, strength, sacrifice, and determination. Temanea lives in Brisbane now with his wife Talay and my beautiful mokopuna Ludy-Anne, and I\u2019m so lucky that they are here today\u2014hi, my darling. I can feel their love. Even though they don\u2019t live in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, I feel their love every day with me, and I\u2019m proud to be their m\u0101m\u0101 and my Ludy\u2019s nanny.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EI then became the CEO of Te Kaha O Te Rangatahi for 13 years, delivering sexual health education in schools, alternative education, intermediate kura, and wharekura. Here, I learnt the true value and love for working with rangatahi and the takat\u0101pui community. I encouraged rangatahi to stand proud, that they had a voice, that they mattered, and that they were valued. We developed one of the most successful suicide prevention programmes, called talk2me. The vision is: you matter, your life matters, reach out, talk to me. That was our purpose, and I\u2019m very, very proud of the mahi that we did as Te Kaha O Te Rangatahi, and a big mihi to the wh\u0101nau that are here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EAs my children grew up in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, they developed a love and passion for hip-hop dance. They spent 15 years with some of the most influential dance crews that were produced across Aotearoa, through Dziah Dance Academy. We always said hip-hop saved our lives as a wh\u0101nau, and Dziah was that life and a lifestyle for us. I went from the \u201Cdance mom\u201D to become the Hip Hop International New Zealand Director, travelling the world through the World Hip Hop Dance Championship for 20 years. Last year, I retired, but this year they gave it back to me but in a new competition that\u2019s been grown and owned by Aotearoa. Why? Ko ng\u0101 rangatahi te take [the youth are the reason]. In 2021, I was humbled to be acknowledged for my years of dedication to my hip-hop community when I was awarded an Officer of the New Zealand Order of Merit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EAmohia ake te ora o te iwi, ka puta ki te whai ao\u2014the health and wellbeing of our people is paramount. Until today, I was the active CEO of Manurewa Marae in South Auckland, where manaakitanga is at the forefront of how we uplift our community. We were the first marae set up to support wh\u0101nau with vaccinations in Aotearoa. We were committed to putting our wh\u0101naus\u2019 oranga first, to stand up and support them when the system was failing. We were one marae that delivered 65,000 vaccinations for all wh\u0101nau across T\u0101maki-makau-rau. I want to acknowledge my Manurewa Marae wh\u0101nau for championing the needs of our wh\u0101nau. It takes courage, bravery to stand up for what your community needs and to navigate tikanga through uncertain times. To all our kaimahi who are here, and those that couldn\u2019t travel, who have continued to hold the front line for our people, I mihi to you and your continuous, unconditional aroha for our community. I will never forget the mahi that our marae did and what we stood for. Ka nui te aroha ki a koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000992\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EAnd now, because of you all, I am here. Thank you, T\u0101maki Makaurau, for believing in me. You are why I\u2019m standing here today. You voted for change, and I will deliver that change for you all day, every day. T\u0101maki-makau-rau is a vibrant city with 250,000 M\u0101ori. It is the M\u0101ori capital of the world. I have lived in T\u0101maki-makau-rau for 35 years, raising my children with all our communities. In fact, I\u2019ve raised many children across T\u0101maki-makau-rau through my mahi of hip-hop. A lot of them call me Auntie; a lot of them call me Mum, and I\u2019m proud of all of their efforts and achievements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000993\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EI\u2019m a ringa raup\u0101, grassroots marae girl born and bred. Caring for wh\u0101nau runs through my blood, just like my t\u016Bpuna, who 100 years ago fought for the right for a Tiriti-centric Aotearoa. Our future in T\u0101maki-makau-rau and across the motu is on the right path with our \u201Cto M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori, by M\u0101ori\u201D approach. I would like to recognise the \u201CProud to be M\u0101ori\u201D movement of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori that has supported six unapologetic M\u0101ori voices into this Whare. We will not let you down, and I can promise you we will never be quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EBut in conclusion, I stand before you, honoured and ready to represent and fight for T\u0101maki Makaurau, not only from this t\u016Bru but, most importantly, shoulder to shoulder alongside you all. Our people have been left out of the conversation for too long, and we have been waiting for this moment, for our voices to be heard and our passion to be felt, pushing for what is right for us, as we know that what works for M\u0101ori will work for all of Aotearoa. I\u2019m an advocate for wh\u0101nau and the catalyst for change, our urban M\u0101ori in T\u0101maki-makau-rau. I am your voice, I am your representative, I am here for you. I will strengthen wh\u0101nau ora in our communities. Never forget: we are magic people. We live in an Aotearoa hou. We will walk and talk and we are proud to be M\u0101ori. Toit\u016B te reo M\u0101ori, toit\u016B te whenua, toit\u016B Te Tiriti. Believe in you, believe in me, believe in M\u0101ori. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E[Applause]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f42b754ae8ed48eab2731a07d5a0b2e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f42b754ae8ed48eab2731a07d5a0b2e1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House stands suspended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWaiata\u2014\u201CT\u0113r\u0101 te uira\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EHaka\u2014\u201CKiringutu\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.16 p.m. to 7 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022008f4ff928654dac8681c6da258adc51\u0022\u003EFair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227cc1fbd489b9422784874a1f240c8c4b\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e7c2df9411014007a10e08b2eedb42f4\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002286a7e3cb5f06408a9bef5c1c8a808214\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286a7e3cb5f06408a9bef5c1c8a808214\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill. I would start by reminding members that the wording of the closure motion has changed in this Parliament. The new wording is \u201CThat debate on this question now close.\u201D, and I refer members to Standing Order 137(1). We start this debate with Part 1. The question is that Part 1 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u00227e49543193234c188f3219d3d2b454d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e49543193234c188f3219d3d2b454d0\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call in this committee stage of the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill. I say \u201Ca pleasure\u201D\u2014it\u2019s always a pleasure and honour to speak in this House\u2014but, obviously, there are a lot of issues in this bill that we disagree with on this side of the House. I have looked at the bill and, even though it is a short bill, I consider that there is quite a bit that we would want to raise. So, in this debate on Part 1, I\u2019d like to ask the Minister why there are no transitional savings and related provisions in this bill. That\u2019s the first question I\u2019d like to ask her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe second question I\u2019d like to ask her is whether she has considered the departmental disclosure statement which was released recently in relation to the publication of the bill and which discusses on page 7 that \u201CThe Bill repeals the Fair Pay Agreements system, which provided the Employment Relations Authority and Employment Court with jurisdiction in relation to obligations and rights under the Fair Pay Agreements Act\u201D, but then makes what I consider to be quite an interesting point in relation to the Legislation Act 2021, \u201Cwhere if an existing right or legal position exists before the FPA Act is repealed, a party can still exercise their legal rights as though the FPA Act had not been repealed.\u201D Does that in fact, in the Minister\u2019s view, mean that any right that exists in an initiated fair pay agreement could continue under the Act even though this repeal bill is passed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022c502908596b74766965fb9fcc2078b2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c502908596b74766965fb9fcc2078b2e\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Following on that line of questioning, and in the Minister\u2019s previous comments in relationship to the aim of the repeal\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5c18624f76542a4af375f939a0cfb49\u0022\u003ECamila Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chairperson. I understand that it\u2019s important in the committee stage to always have a Minister in the chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb67ffa6f3724ad1bf853a7474b1345f\u0022\u003EHon Brooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: I am. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e9da14302d3444daa86edfe884a1065\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s in the chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a8e20b847a44641a7f298975add4666\u0022\u003ECamila Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, you weren\u2019t when I raised the point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204b9bb335f314a5aa46fb5fc063cd7a9\u0022\u003EHon Brooke van Velden\u003C/span\u003E: I was talking to my advisers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b313ec62c5674c4eb33dd984ef982c9b\u0022\u003ECamila Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chairperson. I understand that that\u2019s not permitted. That\u2019s my understanding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ba1f33c259f4fd7a17bbb149d08d623\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, that\u2019s understood now. Ricardo Mene\u0301ndez March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c9ffc3afbfe4405918b43d0b721d052\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair, and congratulations on your ascension to your new role. This is the first time I get to speak, actually, while you\u2019re in the Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo following on the previous line of questioning from the Labour Party member Camilla Belich around the lack of transitional savings for related provisions in this Act as enacted, it\u2019s worth contextualising that a few sectors have initiated the process to get to a fair pay agreement, and one of the things that we wanted to speak of is the Amendment Paper under my name to carve out those sectors that have already started that process of initiating a fair pay agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf the Minister is so confident around fair pay agreements having a negative effect on our economy, would it not actually make the case to test out those fair paying sectors which actually have initiated the process to see the impacts of those, considering the likes of proper consultation and evidence-gathering when it comes to the repeal, and also putting into context that international evidence we do have that does show that there have been benefits overseas? Would it not be worth letting those sectors continue with that process and to treat it as some form of trial\u2014to then actually have evidence available domestically on those impacts? Because otherwise what we have is a vibe-based policy where there hasn\u2019t been domestic evidence on the impact of those sector-based agreements. So, yeah, I was just wanting to get some clarity of why we\u2019re not just allowing those sectors to continue with that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae6f0e8eca7f4469989a1d805274d968\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae6f0e8eca7f4469989a1d805274d968\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to take up my friend Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s point there because I think it\u2019s a very good idea to carve out the areas that have actually already started bargaining. I\u2019m particularly concerned about some of those areas being ones that are very vulnerable. I have put an amendment in, in my own name, about the hospitality industry in particular. I remember being a hospitality worker when I was young. It\u2019s quite often experienced by a young workforce. My daughter said to me just tonight that she found hospitality some of the hardest work she\u2019s done. We pay lower wages than Australia, and I wanted also to comment on that and ask the Minister for her comments on this, because she has commented that she believes this law will be good for productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAustralia has higher productivity\u2014I looked at some statistics tonight, and I think there was 1.4 percentage growth in productivity here when there was over 2 percent in Australia, up to 2019. It seems to me an incredibly important thing that we at least try a different approach which is more akin to Australia, where people are paid higher wages, and by carving out the group of industries that have actually initiated bargaining, we have a number of industries we can look at. We can take out factors, we can look at commonalities, and we can trial this and see whether in fact it assists those workforces. I am very keen to see it happen in the industries that have already initiated, because they are obviously hungry for that kind of trial. And it seems a very sensible place to start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI know that I have some different views on productivity, but I also am concerned that we\u2019re about to dismantle the Productivity Commission and these are the kinds of institutions that have, in the past, been relied upon to give us advice. They have been saying, as late as July last year, that we need to move to a high-wage economy. Now, the fair pay agreement process is really targeted at the scattered workforce who are not well paid, not well represented, and vulnerable. It really is targeted at the people who most need assistance, because it is just a minimum floor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI would also like the comments of both the Minister and her colleagues, in the purpose of this bill, about flexibility of work, because this seems to be a misnomer. Flexibility, it seems, always only applies to workers reducing terms and conditions to the bare minimum. Yet, it never applies to employers actually allowing employees to move across the workforce and have the freedom to do so. You\u2019ll note that I\u2019ve got a member\u2019s bill at the moment on what\u2019s called \u201Cportability\u201D of work, which is a positive approach to flexibility. It says that workers should be able to move freely across a workforce in the lower-paid work so that they can actually get ahead of it and they can get higher wage rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI also want to comment on the hospitality industry as one that I\u2019ve interacted with strongly. I\u2019m now the spokesperson on small business, and I\u2019m taking a particular interest in hospitality because, in hospitality, we have had extremely low-profit rates as well as low wages. Low wages don\u2019t seem to help with profit margins. We want to actually get that sector healthy. We are going to have to move to a different kind of economy, which means, yes, we will have to pay our workers more, but we also need to support our businesses to make sure that we do. There is more than one way to make a business grow in this country, and that\u2019s why I\u2019m asking about things like portability and other ways of actually getting the kind of productivity, because the low-wage economy\u2014because, remember, what you\u2019re talking about is going back to a system that we have now, where those workers fall right down in wages\u2014doesn\u2019t work; it hasn\u2019t worked. It hasn\u2019t worked for a sector like hospitality, and it hasn\u2019t worked for your average worker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI want also to talk about the health and safety implications of this, because if you think about the implications of this in the safety area\u2014I take my daughter, who I\u2019ve just been spending the break with. She\u2019s a young woman, and one of the hardest jobs she\u2019s ever done\u2014quite a few of the hardest jobs she\u2019s ever done\u2014was in the hospitality sector. In my own experience of that sector, when I was young and I worked for a number of different hospitality groups, you\u2019re very vulnerable to bad treatment. One of the things that this does is give people a floor. It gives them those basic rights, and, actually, it means that employers who are paying a decent wage, who are paying perhaps the living wage to their workers, aren\u2019t competing with people paying a lot less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI would say to small business\u2014and I would like you to consider this\u2014that actually small businesses often benefit. It might be something they fear, but they often benefit because the big multinationals can\u2019t squash them with this kind of process where they are constantly in a situation where they are tying up those workers, often with restraints of trade, and they are lowering the wages. They are using the small businesses as a kind of stalking horse and saying that it\u2019s for their flexibility, when in fact it\u2019s about driving conditions down across vulnerable industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I would love your comment on these things and whether you\u2019ve thought about them. Even if you disagree with me, Minister, I\u2019d like to understand how on earth you are justifying this and how you see the way forward in New Zealand\u2014how you see high-wage work happening if we don\u2019t do something differently. Because we have been doing this, Minister, for quite a long time now and it has caused a whole lot of people a whole lot of pain, and we have industries like hospitality where there is no money being made. It is heartbreaking for those small businesses. They are not able to compete with the big multinationals that are coming in. They are having those wages dragged down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also just like to tell one story from when I practised as an employment lawyer. I was practising for 25 years. I had a call from an Australian company. They rang me because they wanted to set up shop in New Zealand, and they said to me, \u201CWhat do I have to do? What do we do? How do we pay our employees?\u201D They fully expected that there was going to be some sort of agreement which they had to buy into, and I said, \u201CWell, actually, we have the minimum wage, but that\u2019s about it. There\u2019s the Holidays Act. There\u2019s the minimum wage. There\u2019s sick pay. That\u2019s it.\u201D And they said, \u201CBut surely if we\u2019ve got people on call, if we\u2019ve got people that are casualised, we\u2019d have to pay them an extra 20 percent, wouldn\u2019t we?\u201D I said, \u201CActually, you don\u2019t. You don\u2019t have to do that. You don\u2019t have to do any of those things under New Zealand law.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, hopefully this kind of arrangement of fair pay agreements would mean that some of those things that we would negotiate in would be minimum floors, and it would be fair on the employer who\u2019s already doing those things and paying good wages, because they would be on an equal footing with one that wasn\u2019t. But my understanding is that you\u2019re saying that\u2019s not the way forward here. Those Australian employers were well able to pay a lot more, and there are situations I know at the present time where the same employer works across Australia and New Zealand and pays its retail workers or its hospitality workers so much more than its New Zealand workforce. And it makes such sense when we talk about the drain to Australia\u2014how we are going to stop it. So that\u2019s my other question here for you tonight, Minister. How are we going to stop the drain of young talent going to Melbourne to work as a barista if in fact in New Zealand we cannot offer the same kind of wages, because everybody is going to the bare minimum all the time and hoping that that will sometimes make a profit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EMinister, I know that you\u2019re aware that the Productivity Commission has said we have been working harder than almost any other country for less money. We have been doing that. We do a lot of hours, and the only productivity gain we seem to get\u2014that\u2019s what they are saying\u2014is actually out of working more hours. That\u2019s how our productivity goes up in this country. That\u2019s not a good model. That\u2019s not smart. It\u2019s not what I want for my children. It\u2019s not actually what I want for myself. So I\u2019d ask you to answer those questions. Thank you for your time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00226cc6a28e2d6e40939a33975920e2f254\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cc6a28e2d6e40939a33975920e2f254\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to take the chance to answer a few questions that have come already. Firstly, from Helen White\u2014and, apologies, because I\u2019ll paraphrase in the interest of time\u2014talking about why would we not allow initiated fair pay agreements to conclude. And the reason behind that is because we are committed as a Government to repealing the Fair Pay Agreement Act, which means that we\u2019re committed to repealing the bargaining process that allows for the fair pay agreements. So that is why we are repealing the Act in totality: because we\u2019re repealing the bargaining process that sits behind the Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWhen we look at the question from the member Camilla Belich about why there are no transitional clauses in the bill: this is because for the bargaining of all the initiated fair pay agreements, they are in very early stages, which means that there will be no fair pay agreements that have been finalised before the legislation is repealed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ETalking also to Camilla\u2019s other question about the legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b2dfb072554efc97d82b50280ea95d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Camilla Belich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229509665987fa4c54a86db04d2a08235b\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Camilla Belich; my apologies\u2014there are rights that could be exercised under the legislation, following a repeal. That is because the effect of the legislation of 2019 is that a party can pursue a right or action in relation to something that occurred while the Act was in force. That is under the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ETalking to the member Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s question about why we would not allow those that have already been initiated as fair pay agreements to continue through the process: well, the answer is quite simple. It\u2019s because we want a flexible labour market where employers and employees can agree to terms that suit their own unique situations. We don\u2019t believe in having a blunt tool like a fair pay agreement, which affects all employers and employees within an occupation or an industry, which is why that goes right to the heart of why we\u2019re repealing this Act and the bargaining process underneath it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ESpeaking to the member Helen White\u2019s latest question on productivity: that question is, surely, directed to the Minister for Regulation. I\u2019m sure you can have many, many in-depth conversations with Minister Seymour about how we will improve productivity in New Zealand by removing unnecessary red tape and regulation which is holding back our economy and holding us back against other countries around the world. But that\u2019s not within this bill; this is quite a specific bill about how we will be repealing the bargaining process sitting behind the fair pay agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2556bfa67cc4b459d555379aa66a434\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2556bfa67cc4b459d555379aa66a434\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I want to be able to advance some of the discussions because we\u2019re quite an advanced-thinking party. In Part 2, and I\u2019m talking to my Amendment Paper, we see that the Ministry of Businesses, Innovation and Employment has identified the implications of the repeal of the fair pay agreement legislation on M\u0101ori. And, obviously, to be supportive to the Minister in making sure how else, for example, the Government would be consistent with Treaty of Waitangi obligations, my amendment is ensuring that we identify those who are disproportionately affected\u2014and remember that there has been no consultation with iwi M\u0101ori, no representation groups. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had advocacy after advocacy from those who have said that this is not supported by us. We have not had enough time. The New Zealand Council of Trade Unions R\u016Bnanga also have supported and stated that they are really concerned for M\u0101ori and particularly how they\u2019re going to be affected by a lack of standards, and that they would benefit from a system that we have seen here in fair pay agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ESo my amendment is, again, a solution to a problem that is before us. It is looking to ensure that you are considering an opportunity to continue the Act in areas where M\u0101ori workers will be disproportionately affected. And this amendment would provide an exemption for M\u0101ori workers who will be harmed by the repeal of the fair pay agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EFor the Government, whose Prime Minister has assured us that he\u2019s got the best interests of M\u0101ori at heart, this would be one way of considering again how we could be making amendments to pull off, I guess, what has been really forced on us in a concerning urgent way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThe question I would have is: why wouldn\u2019t you support my Amendment Paper? Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00229b1d5a90d1de4952b6ae3ea5a4e56654\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b1d5a90d1de4952b6ae3ea5a4e56654\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E As my first call with Mr Chair in the Chair and in the seat, I do want to congratulate the wisdom of this choice in having Mr\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d04ec390ada409fb5eeb854886b81bf\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: What a greaser!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8fb1bb8c9db49fd8ef1b69d9cecc078\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: I am happy to spend some of my precious time to acknowledge some history. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI would like to ask of the Minister, and what I want the Minister to come back with is mitigating the disproportionate impact of stagnant, lower wages for youth\u2014so rangatahi is a focus that I\u2019m wanting to pick up on\u2014without fair pay agreements. I have noticed throughout the discussion in the House from the Minister, she constantly uses the word \u201Cbelieve\u201D\u2014\u201CWe believe that this will be the case\u201D, \u201CWe are doing this legislation because we believe it will be better\u201D. Believing and having actual, grounded evidence are two different things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo in light of the fact that it has long been recognised\u2014and, Mr Chair, I am trying my hardest to respect the bounds of the Part 1 legislation that we are on right now. I will take guidelines from you to keep me on that. But in Part 1, \u201CConsequential amendments to Acts\u201D, I think this is called\u2014OK. \u201CReplace section 132(2) with:\u201D, what this legislation is proposing, and again, in \u201CReplace section 224(1)(a) with:\u201D\u2014there is a different proposal. What those two particular repeals and replacements highlight is a returning of the onus to the worker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ENow, fair pay agreements, and especially on rangatahi\u2014how confident or how strong is your belief that rangatahi, young people, in an employment situation are going to feel supported in an imbalanced power situation to raise any issues? This one particularly relates to the claims regarding \u201Cwages actually paid to the employee\u201D and \u201Chours, days, and time\u201D and, also, leaving it up to rangatahi to make a complaint to a labour inspector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo I would love the Minister please to give something beyond her belief and actually provide evidence, provide statements, and provide a fulsome analysis that shows that rangatahi, who are going to be severely disproportionately impacted by the lack of fair pay agreements are going to be able to have the onus that is going to be placed back on their individual shoulders. See, the purpose of fair pay agreements was collective bargaining. It was to be able to try and correct some of the power imbalance that is especially felt by young people, and I\u2019m not even going to go into the level of exploitation that young people, including young women\u2014young women who I have had come to me about the way that they have been treated and the way that they have been exploited, including in sexual harassment situations. We know this is true; we know this happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003ESo please, would the Minister go beyond her belief and instead put up some analysis, some evidence, and some hard-line research that talks about the ability of keeping the onus on young people\u2019s shoulders to raise these inequities and these injustices to their employer with power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00223759eba0a1044e8384d17b4686a1eb2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223759eba0a1044e8384d17b4686a1eb2a\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and congratulations on your elevation to the role. It is good to see you there, and congratulations also to the Minister on taking up this role in this Cabinet. It is a pleasure to be able to ask these questions of you today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI want to build on some of the questions that the Hon Marama Davidson has asked in the committee, because I am considering an amendment to clause 4 which would be relevant to you. But before I take the committee through what those amendments would be, I need some further clarity from the Minister on how youth will be considered in these regime changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBecause the Minister has presented to this committee\u2014she has said that fair pay agreements (FPAs) were never about being fair, which is something that I disagree with. But, perhaps putting myself in her shoes and appreciating the world through her ideology, I can see that she is trying to advance something which is beneficial to New Zealanders. So for young New Zealanders\u2014I know this is something that she\u2019s passionate about and would not be enacting legislation which impacted poorly on young New Zealanders. That begs the question of what amendments this committee needs to make to make sure that young workers are protected, because young workers are amongst the most vulnerable and the least able to represent themselves in these situations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EFurther, the purpose of the fair pay agreements legislation when it was enacted in 2022 was about creating an industry floor for many of these industries which are dominated by young workers who move between different employers doing very similar kinds of work. We\u2019ve heard from my colleagues on this side of the Chamber about the example of baristas, fast-food workers, other sorts of hospitality\u2014these are all industries where often young New Zealanders get their first start in life. That kind of work experience that they have is really important to the way that they experience not only their education, their lives, but they also get the first start in their employment journey, which we hope is a really positive one here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI want to turn the committee\u2019s attention to some of the submissions made by young people in the passage of the Fair Pay Agreements Act 2022, because we don\u2019t have the opportunity for young people to present to the select committee about the kinds of changes that they would want to see in the legislation here. So it is important that the committee give some consideration to what those submissions were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo first I\u2019ll start with the submission of Stand Up. It was made by Dr Zoe Port and Moniqua Reid. The comments of Dr Port are really useful for us, but it was Moniqua\u2019s story of her own experience as a young person in the workforce who would have benefited from an industry-wide agreement that I want to focus on. She said, \u201CWe know fair pay agreements will halt the race to the bottom in wages, improve job security, and put our members on a path to better jobs with fair pay. I\u2019m 28, and I was born to young parents. Only my dad worked in our family for the minimum wage of $7 in 1997. With this one minimum wage income, my young family was able to get their first mortgage on their $70,000 home that still stands in good condition today. It was still a struggle to live on one income, but it was manageable and there was always food on the table. With the inflation rate of 74 percent between then and now, that $70,000 house should be worth $122,000 today. Even if we consider that the $7 minimum wage from 1997 today would be worth just over $12, and the 2022 minimum wage is a lot higher at $21.20. In proportion, we would double the cost of what that house should be worth to $244,000 to keep in line with the current minimum wage. That house today is almost worth double what it should be, at 440,000\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe point she\u2019s making here is that for someone like her, who\u2019s 28 and earning a minimum wage, she\u2019s in a really different position, because minimum wage and wages for people working the kinds of jobs that her family worked, and the kind of job that she could work, are not keeping up with the generation of her family. That\u2019s the position that many young people find themselves in today, where a race to the bottom in New Zealand and the kind of economic settings that we have had have meant that young people are not able to earn what their parents earned\u2014and their parents before them\u2014in relation to the price of other things. It\u2019s really important that young people get a good start on decent wages and can experience the kind of conditions that not only protect their pay across industries like the ones that Moniqua\u2019s family were working in but also their conditions, so that they experience the economy in a way which is insulated somewhat from the vagaries and fluctuations of it, and they have the ability to hold down their work as well. So that once they have a job, they can keep it, because the conditions of their employment are such that they are given the skills and the kinds of opportunities that they need to thrive in those roles, and to continue in their education. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe comments of Dr Port are really useful for the Chamber to also consider. She said that the FPAs in that context seeks for a generational reset, and a chance to make work and wages fair, and stop the race to the bottom which defines our current industrial relations framework. Young people in this country\u2014[Time expired] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00226541e303bac744b7bd56cddc393958a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226541e303bac744b7bd56cddc393958a5\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for the opportunity, and can I begin, Mr Chair, by acknowledging you on your role and congratulate you on your appointment to be one of our Assistant Speakers. I look forward to being part of a House which has you in the Chair, Mr Tuiono.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI have two questions for the Minister\u2014and I just note I don\u2019t seem to have a clock, so that\u2019s helpful, Mr Chair. The Minister in her earlier reply made some comment around the need to maintain a system that allows individual employers and employees to be able to bargain with each other. I just wanted to make some observations around that, because one of the purposes of the original Act was to actually strengthen our collective bargaining system. I\u2019m just interested in the Minister\u2019s comments that she\u2019s already made about why it is that that would be seen to be a superior framework for negotiating wages and conditions. There is evidence\u2014and I\u2019m interested in what advice the Minister has received on this\u2014that when people do bargain collectively, particularly people in low-wage industries, it leads to higher wages. So I think it\u2019s important that we hear a little bit more detail from the Minister about what evidence has led to those statements that she made in her earlier contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIn my reading of the Employment Relations Act, it actually stipulates that one of the objects of the Act is to promote collective bargaining. So this original legislation would have strengthened the ability for workers to come together and negotiate better terms and conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIn terms of the second question I\u2019ve got, I was just reading through the departmental disclosure statement, and I just want to add some more comments to my colleague Camilla Belich\u2019s contribution earlier around the lack of transitional provisions within the bill. In the departmental disclosure statement, it specifically talks about whether the Privacy Commissioner was consulted and raises some concerns around the fact that there have been a number of fair pay agreements that have been initiated and are under way, already in process. We\u2019ve heard that there are, for example, supermarket workers, bus drivers\u2014there\u2019s close to 300,000 workers that will be covered by these fair pay agreements. And so I think it\u2019s right to have some concern, if the repeal is successful, around what actually happens to all of that data that has been collected about those workers and who holds that data. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI note in the departmental disclosure statement that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) intends to work with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner to put some guidance in place. But my question to the Minister is whether the Minister actually considered whether it would have been helpful to include some transitional provisions in here. Because I think that for those workers\u2014and remembering that many of them are very vulnerable workers\u2014knowing that their information would have been disclosed to their employer, their information would have been disclosed to a union, their information would have been disclosed to MBIE, do have the right to have an understanding that their private information is going to be held securely and also, under the Privacy Act, used for the purpose that was intended to be gathered for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019m concerned that there could be some time frames around how long it takes to develop those guidelines, how long there might be information sitting there, being held by the various parties that have been involved in the bargaining of fair pay agreements, and whether it would have been more appropriate to include some transitional provisions within the bill so that we could give some certainty to those workers that actually there is a plan around how their data will be protected, given that the legislation will actually be repealed. So I\u2019d be very interested in hearing from the Minister about what analysis was followed through that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAnd also I just note again from my first question\u2014obviously I\u2019ve got two questions here for the Minister that I\u2019d like to hear from her on. The first was that I would very much be interested in what research and analysis was provided around the benefit of collective bargaining against the benefits of individual negotiations\u2014recognising that in some professional industries individual negotiations are absolutely fine and deliver for people. But when we\u2019re talking about\u2014as we\u2019ve heard from others\u2014young people, people who don\u2019t have that high level of bargaining power, they might be new to employment. They might be someone that\u2019s traditionally discriminated against, maybe because of a disability, and there\u2019s actually a lot of benefit for them in being able to bargain as a collective. So I\u2019m just interested in a little bit more analysis about how the Minister came to that position in her earlier comments. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00224a0732d9fc1c4e21828c41f7ad8b5968\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a0732d9fc1c4e21828c41f7ad8b5968\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for bringing the debate back to the relevant part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00221cb42f8bb0f643d388c4f7aaf7e5ce44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cb42f8bb0f643d388c4f7aaf7e5ce44\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll take the opportunity to respond to a few questions, starting with the Hon Marama Davidson. Her questions touched on how we can protect youth and younger people in our workforce, and I\u2019m delighted to tell the Hon Marama Davidson that we already have quite strong minimum entitlements with the minimum wage, which affects not just youth but also all employees within our employment relations framework. She also asked and touched on what evidence do we have for repealing the fair pay agreement system. There is no evidence for the fair pay agreement system itself. I note the regulatory impact statement for the instatement of this law\u2014for the Fair Pay Agreements Act\u2014actually recommended against the fair pay agreement system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EShe also touched on how M\u0101ori workers will be protected, with the onus on them being able to negotiate their own terms. It\u2019s also quite possible that there are employment groups that members in this House will touch on that could have been negatively affected. We\u2019re talking about youth, we\u2019re talking about M\u0101ori, Pasifika, disabled\u2014there are many people who could have been negatively impacted by disemployment effects. I once again look to the regulatory impact statement that was produced for the previous Government, which says, \u201CIt is possible that [fair pay agreements] could lead to employers choosing to hire fewer people or reducing hours of work. Any disemployment effects could also disproportionately impact these population groups.\u201D So it is not the case that these population groups would be better off under a fair pay agreement; it is also quite possible that they could be worse off, as is stated within the regulatory impact statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI want to touch on questions from Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, talking about two of her Amendment Papers. The first is asking for there to be a review of the repeal of this Act after three years, considering the impact of this review and the repeal, especially in areas where M\u0101ori are overrepresented. My response to that is it\u2019s not possible to have a review of a law that would be repealed, because there would be nothing to review after three years, so the whole point of that paper is null and void.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe second Amendment Paper that she put forward was asking for there to be fair pay agreements allowed to be initiated for sectors where M\u0101ori workers are disproportionately impacted; however, the six areas that she has listed, wishing to allow those particular areas to increase, are the areas which we as a Government are repealing under the law. They don\u2019t affect just M\u0101ori workers; they affect all people within all of the collective bargaining under that fair pay agreement, so we would be keeping, in effect, all areas of the law. That is against what this Government wishes to achieve, which is to repeal the fair pay agreements law. So, once again, I thank the member for her paper, but this Government will not be supporting that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe member Rachel Boyack talked about why it is that we want an individual framework and why do we believe that would be better than having collective bargaining. I\u2019m also delighted to tell the member that we do have ability for collective bargaining outside of the fair pay agreement system. This Government has not repealed that law. We are repealing a fair pay agreement law. The Employment Relations Act sets out a framework for both individual and collective bargaining processes, which has worked quite well for the past 30 years and, in fact, my entire life. So we\u2019re going back to what that was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u0022d494d26228b545c0b75c86bc7299c18f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d494d26228b545c0b75c86bc7299c18f\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. E mihi ana ki a koe m\u014D t\u0113nei t\u016Branga hou, te Heamana tuatahi n\u014D roto i Te Uri o Roroi, Ng\u0101i Takoto, e mihi nei ki a koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E[I congratulate you for this new role, the first Chair from Te Uri o Roroi, Ng\u0101i Takoto, I congratulate you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EJust in reflecting on the discussion that we\u2019ve heard tonight, I want to hoki whakamuri\u2014take a step back\u2014and think about the voices of those that met with us on the steps of Parliament today. When I saw the babies roll out with their early childhood education (ECE) teachers, those that worked at Countdown\u2014Connor who addressed us, a young man trying to get by and pay his bills. Then thinking about our bus drivers that provide transport now from the airport to Parliament. The new system that\u2019s available, you know, through fair pay agreements would have enabled them to all have a really good Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThe backs of Parliament are built off those who serve us right now\u2014our cleaners and our security guards\u2014they are all impacted by this legislation, and the repeal is an injustice for our people. I have a mother who has worked in early childhood education since the 1990s\u2014I think I was still at high school\u2014and they have battled for fair pay for far too long. And the collective bargaining that was provided through these avenues\u2014oh, and I recognise our unions, the power, the strength that they have given to sectors who have had no voice is an important space for all New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EAs M\u0101ori, we are gravely impacted in this space, and I\u2019d like to remind the House that we are often the buffer of all of the lowest statistics in Aotearoa. Lest we forget about tobacco impact and the health and wellbeing of our people, I\u2019m bringing us back to the kaupapa as I refer to the fact that te iwi M\u0101ori are overrepresented in the workforce that we\u2019re talking about. So the question for the Minister tonight is about mitigation. What is the path to mitigate the disproportionate impact that this legislation\u2014or, what\u2019s going to happen to te iwi M\u0101ori? What is your plan? And then in fact, when I heard you speak earlier, Minister, about \u201CActually, maybe te iwi M\u0101ori may not be so impacted.\u201D, what is the evidence base behind that? Because from my perspective as a mokopuna of an ECE teacher and with wh\u0101nau who clean hotels right now, and the cousins who serve me at Countdown\u2014I\u2019m here as their voice from Tai Tokerau to share my grave concerns for those who have no voice. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00227ac16caa56844e9d8b9611b0b30cdeb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ac16caa56844e9d8b9611b0b30cdeb0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I just wanted to acknowledge the newness of some of the members and remind members to come back to the relevant part that we are discussing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u00227e4adf1dd9a245b58eeea20548f6e10d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e4adf1dd9a245b58eeea20548f6e10d\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1ea87e3024d4aeaad82262b30d7487c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1ea87e3024d4aeaad82262b30d7487c\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just wanted to open also by congratulating you on your appointment, and also Minister Brooke van Velden, who may not have been the Minister in the chair available to hear that comment when we originally started. So congratulations, Minister. This is an important portfolio and I know you\u2019ll take it really seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI also know that you\u2019ve made comments in the past about how you\u2019ve changed your mind on important issues. So I take that to mean that the discussions that we have today and the points that we raise will be taken in good faith, and I hope that some of them will be considered in terms of supporting some of the many amendments that we\u2019ve put forward, some of which I think\u2014well, actually, all of which, but there are particular ones which I think will be particularly useful for the passage of this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIn terms of how I have read this first part of the bill which we are debating at the moment, obviously it\u2019s a smaller part of the bill compared with the second part, but this first part does have an active provision of repealing this bill, which is, as I understand, a mechanism which is employed in order to clear the statute book, essentially, of a repeal bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022798d4c4406f946ed81285783e1373f73\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: I have a suggestion about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d25b3841b5b4d7f9d46e21e01b2724f\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: We have some suggestions about that, and my colleague has an amendment that no doubt she will speak to later. But with that in mind, that is informing some of the discussions that we are having. So although it may seem unusual to speak to this bill and the context around this bill in the first part rather than the second, it is because this Act is repealed in the first part, which is why we are discussing things in relation to the repeal bill at this stage, and just to note that there are a number of amendments that haven\u2019t been addressed yet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b93409521e6e4d19a9bb57d6bffc063b\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: She\u2019s using confusion as a weapon, but it\u2019s backfired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fad09382be004f82b6a63757c6efd34a\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies, I couldn\u2019t hear that interjection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236f3c18c2ab247f4b417f3a56ab6584e\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I said the member is using confusion as a weapon, but it\u2019s backfired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ded7f27e291144e893b1abbb945b6b51\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: I can explain it again to the member. So the first part of the bill has a provision in it which repeals the bill in order to clear the statute book. Therefore, it is relevant to discuss the repeal bill in its entirety, in my view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022095224df351948178039274778426909\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: No, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249d845d125db4e38a243bb7bb1cd77d1\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: The Chair will judge that\u2014crack on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7357da5f66b4a49ab5eded0914b2432\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, the Chair will judge it for relevance, but anyway. One of the points that I wanted to make and ask the Minister about was she\u2019s received a number of comments, and I know there are a number of amendments as well in relation to this first part, looking at te ao M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori. I know that in the advice that she received in the cover sheet of the regulatory impact statement in relation to this, it was specifically noted that M\u0101ori women, young people, Pasifika would be disproportionately impacted by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis is also reflected in the advice, which is contained within the departmental disclosure statement, which I referred to in my first contribution\u2014on page six of the departmental disclosure statement, the advice states that \u201CM\u0101ori are more likely than other groups to earn low wages. Given that they are disproportionately represented in workforces where there are lower employment terms, they could have disproportionately benefited from any improved terms obtained by an FPA.\u201D It goes on to note that \u201CNo consultation with Iwi or M\u0101ori representative groups was possible due to time frame restrictions.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ENow, I know through reading the whole departmental disclosure statement that there is a view put forward in the alternative as well, but I just wanted to make sure that we highlighted the other information about how M\u0101ori would be disproportionately affected, and I wondered if the Minister wanted to comment at all. Given that there is this concern raised now in two documents that she\u2019s been privy to, what is she going to do in order to address the low pay that M\u0101ori receive in New Zealand, as Minister of workplace relations? Because, of course, she is repealing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI just have some other comments that I wanted to make. Obviously, we are in a situation where we don\u2019t have a select committee process. We did have a select committee process for the primary bill which is being looked at and we will discuss in detail in Part 2. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dac4d3dce0f495f8ad999766af5c55b\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: What did the RIS say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293fb486e250b4fdcb930f63792a3ae1d\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: There is said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e97d65757a344251816234e2a20496ca\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CDon\u2019t do it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272292e50d854476c94251387007b5793\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: There is said that M\u0101ori\u2014well, actually, the most\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5a437a4aa154c06b15147cd3d9b2f55\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: If members could bring back their attention and have a conversation not with each other but with myself, it would be appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022348b40f96a8147c595a7d82452ee50ac\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies, Mr Chair, I was distracted by the interjections from a member opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThere were a number of submissions made during the select committee process. And I note that in other committee stages where there hasn\u2019t been a select committee process there\u2019s been some leeway given to discuss the views of the community that haven\u2019t been able to be expressed due to the fact\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022124af310ea784b048881dc11460a3259\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022124af310ea784b048881dc11460a3259\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I wanted to talk to three members and their questions. The first is Rachel Boyack\u2014the member Rachel Boyack. She talked about the Privacy Act and the need for employees\u2019 information to be kept private. I absolutely agree with that member. Where people\u2019s information has been collected, it has been for a specific purpose, and now that that purpose no longer exists, or will not at the close of this bill, that information should not be used for any other purpose, not by an employer and not by a union. And I note that the Privacy Act 2020 will apply in this case. Principle 9 of the Privacy Act specifies that an agency that holds personal information must not keep that information for longer than is required for the purposes for which the information may lawfully be used. So once the fair pay agreement legislation is repealed, unions will no longer have a lawful purpose for retaining this information and it will need to be deleted. The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment is developing guideline and guidance materials to make this obligation very clear to the unions that were part of the bargaining parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ETo the member Camila Belich, she\u2019s talked about the self-repeal provision that\u2019s within this bill. This is a fairly standard provision for a repeal bill to keep our statute book nice and tidy. If we have a law and then we have a repeal of that law, there\u2019s no need for that repeal of law that no longer exists to be on the statute of books. So it just tidies it up within a few days after the repeal\u2014and that\u2019s pretty plain and simple.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ETo the member H\u016Bhana Lyndon, I\u2019m talking a little bit about the path to mitigate any impact on Ma\u014Dri. I thank the member for her question. I believe it\u2019s in good faith. However, I do want to stress that this bill will not make Ma\u014Dri worse off, because there have not been any fair pay agreements that have been finalised. So every employee, whether they\u2019re young, whether they\u2019re Ma\u014Dri, Pasifika\u2014throughout our economy if they had been part of this bargaining process, they are not worse off. The current wage that they currently have will be the current wage they go into Christmas and into New Year. Nobody is going into Christmas with a lower wage because of the repeal of this fair pay agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022452c949f41aa425587740e3fd68384ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022452c949f41aa425587740e3fd68384ad\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to speak to clause 4, \u201CRepeal of this Act\u201D. It is a very simple provision that states, \u201CThis Act is repealed on the close of the 28th day after the date on which it comes into force\u201D. I just want to focus on the fact that this is, pure and simple, a repeal. It wipes clear the Fair Pay Agreements Act 2022, which was a genuine attempt based on a lot of discussion, a lot of policy work, a lot of analysis, consideration of a lot of evidence to address the problem of entrenched low pay in this country, to stop the race to the bottom by means of a national framework of sector bargaining and minimum standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ENow, because this is just a repeal and nothing else, there\u2019s nothing being put in place to replace the Fair Pay Agreements Act. It\u2019s the status quo ante. My question for the Minister is: is that enough for you? Was the status quo ante an acceptable situation? I\u2019m keen to know whether or not the Minister is happy and content with the state of affairs before the passing of the Act, and whether or not the Minister accepts that low pay, which is entrenched in a number of industries and occupations in this country, is a problem or not. I\u2019m genuinely interested to know the Minister\u2019s view on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EGiven that there\u2019s no regulatory impact statement (RIS) for us to discuss tonight, I\u2019m also interested in the departmental disclosure statement. It states that the objective of this bill is to revert to the previous framework where employers and employees or unions representing their members have more flexibility to agree their employment terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ESo if that\u2019s what this all turns on, it\u2019s the flexibility to agree the terms of employment. And given that we don\u2019t have a RIS, I\u2019m interested to know what the Minister\u2019s evidence base is for the assertion that underlies this whole exercise\u2014that it will deliver greater flexibility. If that\u2019s the view that the Minister has, if that\u2019s the prime motivation for this new law, then what is the flexibility we\u2019re talking about? Is it the flexibility for employers to lay down conditions and rates of pay to new workers that they take or leave? Because that is the reality when people are not bargaining collectively, and in many of the industries that have lodged applications for fair pay agreements, there is very little substantive collective bargaining. That\u2019s why low pay and poor conditions are features of those industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThere are workplaces and there are firms that are unionised, where bargaining goes on. But there are swathes of the economy where there is no significant collective bargaining, and when a worker shows up to seek a job, they get a \u201Ctake it or leave it\u201D offer. Now, that\u2019s a very flexible situation for the employer, but it is not flexible for the employee, particularly when times are tough in the economy and competition for jobs is intense. So I\u2019m really interested to hear from the Minister whether or not that is her conception of flexibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to share some comments from someone I spoke to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228db7c23d088c4578ab08533648fb47c0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: If the member could come back to Part 1\u2014he\u2019s starting to stray.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b28d8fcbffe441ae92b71785ffad0a0a\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I want to share some comments about the repeal of this law from someone who won\u2019t get a chance to come along to a select committee and tell this Parliament how she feels about the repeal of the fair pay agreements. Jackie, who is a cleaner at a very large corporate facility in South Auckland, told me that she really hoped that fair pay agreements would make things better. She said, \u201CWe get sick at work and we\u2019ve run out of sick days. We can\u2019t afford to go to the doctor because we simply can\u2019t afford to lose a day\u2019s pay.\u201D She hoped that fair pay agreements and more bargaining across the industry actually would improve those kinds of conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8b512a69ec64fc69c9e4e0f6c5ae679\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8b512a69ec64fc69c9e4e0f6c5ae679\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I think I heard my name. Acknowledging, because there was no select committee report\u2014I\u2019m just wanting also to unpack the rationale and arguments that were given by the Minister, which we would have otherwise had an opportunity to do more broadly at the select committee stage. So I wanted to pick up on the flexibility arguments the Minister has presented, because to me it sounds like it\u2019s flexibility to pay poor wages and to have a race to the bottom. I guess, in unpacking that argument, which, as I said, we would have had the chance to do in select committee otherwise, if there hadn\u2019t been urgency\u2014when she talked also earlier about the lack of evidence, did she draw at any point on the evidence overseas on wage increases as a result of fair pay agreements and the rationale\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad2c0c8216194d14b7893d055a96a64b\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Which countries? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d3f3dae5f7e4857bd1d0df977a72702\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014particularly in the OECD support for sector-wide bargaining? I can hear the member at my left challenging, but there is OECD support for the sector-wide bargaining, and so I\u2019m just checking on those rationales. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe reason why this relates to Part 1 is because we are not allowing for a transition period, right? So we are not allowing for us to test the impact domestically, which means we have to then draw on overseas evidence for their sector-wide bargaining, and if we had given ourselves the chance of having at least a transition period or having a carve out for specific industries, as my amendment would have proposed, then we would have had, I guess, the ability to have evidence domestically as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut I just wanted to once again reiterate: did she use international evidence and impact overseas of sector-wide bargaining to inform the arguments, or was it just because she campaigned on it based on vibes and without any evidence prior to coming to forming this legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u002241d4f662b85d4f54a7e7f69cb95cdf61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241d4f662b85d4f54a7e7f69cb95cdf61\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just wanted to continue the train of thought that I was on when my last call ended, which was, similar to my colleague Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, talking about some of the voices that we would\u2019ve heard from, had we had a select committee process on this issue. There are a number of different submissions that were made\u2014I mentioned earlier in the House today I think there were about 1,700 submissions made\u2014in relation to the primary bill. We as a select committee during that primary bill travelled. We went to Auckland, we heard a number of submissions in person there as well, so took the opportunity for scrutiny of that primary piece of legislation really seriously. I just wanted to raise some of the comments that some of those submitters made during the initial consultation on the bill, because I think it is relevant to consider what they would have said had they been able to participate in a select committee process during this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EOne of the ones that I wanted to highlight was a submission that was made by Kaimahi Whaikaha. They are an organisation who represents workers with disabilities, who, I note, have been particularly in support of fair pay agreements. They said in their submission to the original select committee, \u201CWe support the Fair Pay Agreements Bill and its intent to create a framework that will lift terms, [and] conditions, and pay for numerous workers in our country. This Bill will benefit disabled workers as people in low paid work, and \u2026 users of services where we know workers would benefit from Fair Pay Agreements.\u201D They went on to say that the statistics in relation to disabled workers show they have \u201Clower participation \u2026 in the workforce, \u2026 higher rates of unemployment, [and] a greater \u2026 underutilisation\u201D in their work, and their \u201Cmedian weekly income is less than that of [their] able bodied peers.\u201D They also state that a number of their members work in industries which have subsequently lodged fair pay agreements. They cited early childhood education, hospitality, cleaning, home care and support, as well as many other low-paid industries. So I think it\u2019s important to have the voice of disabled workers raised again in this House, and it\u2019s a pity, in my view, that they didn\u2019t get the opportunity to submit again on this repeal bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EAnother submission that we received during the select committee was a submission from St Peter\u2019s on Willis Social Justice Group. They cited the potential for health and safety to be addressed within fair pay agreements, because often when we\u2019re talking about fair pay agreements it is about terms and conditions and, obviously, pay, but I think another aspect of this regulatory regime which is being repealed, and then the bill itself being repealed through this Part 1, focuses on health and safety issues and how they can collectively be discussed between workers and employers to make sure that the conditions are fair. Often, the things that may be in fair pay agreements will not be financial; they\u2019ll actually be reasonable accommodations that make a big difference to workers\u2019 lives. So one of the things that this particular submitter said was that the bill had the \u201Cpotential to address health and safety issues and structural [inequality] based on sex and ethnicity.\u201D and it should have \u201Cintervention measures addressing in-work poverty, chronic understaffing, undercompensated [values] \u2026 in terms of skill, responsibility, conditions \u2026 qualifications and unequal remuneration of workers performing the same work in the same [type of] firm \u2026 across the [different] sector.\u201D So, I think, really interesting thoughts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EAnother thing that has come up quite a lot in relation to this debate has been the impact on women. There is going to be a disproportionately large impact from the repeal of this primary piece of legislation on women, and we did receive a number of submissions from women\u2019s groups during the select committee process. One of them was from the Public Service Association Women\u2019s Network. We had quite a personal story that was shared from Nancy McShane, who was one of the people involved in that group, and she stated that \u201CFair Pay Agreements are a sensible way to lift hardworking New Zealanders out of poverty and ensure everyone in [New Zealand] is paid a fair and livable wage.\u201D She also went on to talk about her 14 years within the health service, when she\u2019d watch female colleagues forgo much-needed dental treatment because they could not afford it, stay in abusive relationships due to financial hardship, or suffer mental health problems due to chronic\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1eede1732054586a829f19ebff3c415\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, could you let us know which provision you\u2019re speaking on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbfbb1921e6e43f98dd73ec0e032cca4\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m speaking to Part 1, not the provision, but I\u2019m also, Mr Chair, reflecting on the common practice in this House of, when there is a committee stage in urgency when there hasn\u2019t been a select committee process, the voices of people being able to be brought to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffd7307475c64d4eb20fab35c88a0a57\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: If we could focus on Part 1, that would be helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292cb0335b6224f2c8a090a8171fc7f6b\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, thank you. So I\u2019ll finish up in relation to the submissions. I did actually have\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd70c9e5d2674dfbb938cae2068a5bd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd70c9e5d2674dfbb938cae2068a5bd4\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I was very much enjoying the contribution of the member Camilla Belich, and if anyone was interested in the other submissions that came through, they can refer to my second reading speech; I don\u2019t need to repeat those. But I also wanted to just touch on her earlier question about how we will improve conditions for people in our economy. I note that it wasn\u2019t actually specific to this bill, but I do thank the member for her interest, because this is a Government that is going to have a lot of work on our hands to create a good, thriving economy for every person in New Zealand. And I can\u2019t wait for the member to see what this Government will deliver for all New Zealanders. I note that this is external to the bill, but so was her question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI wanted to touch on the Hon Phil Twyford\u2019s questions, firstly starting with what evidence base we have for this bill given that we don\u2019t have a regulatory impact statement. I just wanted to alert the honourable member to the second page of the cover sheet to the Fair Pay Agreements regulatory impact statement, point No. 2, where it says that Treasury actually determined that we didn\u2019t need a completely new regulatory impact statement, because it said, \u201CThis exemption is granted on the grounds that the regulatory impact statement produced when the Fair Pay Agreements system was introduced in 2021 mostly duplicates the analysis needed to repeal the system. This exemption is conditional on MBIE producing a coversheet\u201D\u2014which is what I am reading from. So it\u2019s not correct to say that there isn\u2019t a regulatory impact statement. The regulatory impact statement from 2021 still well and truly applies, and within that regulatory impact statement they did not actually recommend that we had a fair pay agreements system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ETo the second question, which was about why I am asserting that the repeal will actually deliver greater flexibility for the employment market, that\u2019s important because we do have flexibility under the status quo, which is that employees and employers can individually or collectively have employment agreements. That is by definition far more flexible than what this agreement allows for, which is a blunt tool that forces employees and employers to be part of a fair-pay agreement even if they chose not to be part of one. In the case with the submissions that we heard through the Fair Pay Agreements Bill when it was going through under the previous Government, there are businesses where workers don\u2019t actually wish to associate with a union but would be forced to under this law. But also, there are businesses who would be forced to close because they could not afford the terms and conditions that would be forced on them by a third party. So, therefore, there will always be more flexibility under what we are assuming versus what the member is hoping for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EHe also considers whether or not we\u2019d be satisfied with low pay in New Zealand. I\u2019m not satisfied with low pay, but I don\u2019t believe that this would actually improve pay and wage conditions in New Zealand. It is really important that we have a flexible labour market where we have high productivity, where we focus on the regulations and red tape that is actually stifling our economy, so that businesses have more money to pay their staff more. Adding more bureaucracy to our labour market will not have the desired effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00223cd704d98e574a5db4002ce46341383f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cd704d98e574a5db4002ce46341383f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members are starting, in the content of their speeches, to move into Part 2, so I will take another call and see where we go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022635c48bc8c4045318459c2cbb731c4f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022635c48bc8c4045318459c2cbb731c4f9\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I refer, in my contribution, specifically to Part 1 and the part that proposes that we replace section 224(1)(a) in the Employment Relations Act 200 with \u201C(a) an employee makes a complaint to the Labour Inspector,\u201D and it goes on. When I read that, I went to the bill and looked at that part\u2014224(1)(a) of the Fair Pay Agreements Act\u2014which says \u201C(a) decide how to provide the bargaining support services required under section 222;\u201D. So I moved on to that, and it lists a couple: \u201C(a) a union: (b) an employer association: (c) a bargaining party: (d) a bargaining side.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESo what we are seeing here proposed is that instead of an organisation that employees and employers can associate to, they are proposing to replace it with the Labour Inspector. My concern being, of course, is that is one moving from organisations that are self-funded\u2014through members; through associations\u2014to one that is funded by the State. When we propose that something is replaced by the funding of the State, it\u2019s important\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209998406ef58485e8e9cda6343a598ef\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Hon Kieran McAnulty let us know which provision he\u2019s talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223403954d6dd943d0bc3b71170b2f5620\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m talking about, under Part 1, the proposal to replace section 224(1)(a) as it\u2019s outlined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fe6a13825074b858ffc48c6e0463c6b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s in Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u00226bc81711c6c54f5ca9808532a64d1eb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bc81711c6c54f5ca9808532a64d1eb6\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, I note your comments in relation to the part, but I have actually got an amendment that I haven\u2019t spoken to in Part 1, which is the amendment in my name to insert a new clause 3, which would still be in Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EWhen I was at law school, I learnt that in good legislative drafting it is preferable to put a purpose clause in legislation. And the reason for that is sometimes it\u2019s important to understand the purpose of the Parliament in creating a particular law, because, otherwise, when there\u2019s a provision that is unclear or perhaps maybe with the passage of time, a new interpretation is possible, it helps to have a purpose. Unfortunately, this bill doesn\u2019t have a purpose, and, if it did, it would be in Part 1. So my proposal in my amendment is to insert a new clause, and the purpose, to be in line with the Act, obviously needs to be consistent with the repeal legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ESo the purpose that I have provided in this amendment document is to outline what I believe is the purpose of this bill, which is to ensure businesses can continue to undervalue workers, to protect New Zealand\u2019s low-wage economy from encroachment by workers\u2019 rights, and (c) to entrench inherent imbalance of power enjoyed by employers. I think that, really, that is the purpose of the bill. I know it\u2019s probably not the aspirational purpose that you see in some pieces of legislation, and I hope that we\u2019ll get the opportunity to discuss the purpose clause in the primary piece of legislation when we move on to Part 2, but sometimes the purpose clause does serve a very important role within statutory interpretation. So, if the Minister doesn\u2019t accept my proposal, I would like to know a few things from her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe first is: why isn\u2019t there a purpose clause in this document and why isn\u2019t there more detail about what it seeks to achieve? And, secondly, if she were to insert a purpose clause or to add more detail of that nature into the legislation, what does she believe is the purpose of that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI think that does have some value for the Hansard in terms of assisting with future statutory interpretation, and I think that it would be beneficial for those scholars who undoubtedly trawl through the hours of this debate looking for the true meaning behind this repeal Act legislation to understand her thinking, which she\u2019s undoubtedly gone through in deciding to repeal what would have been a fundamental change to industrial relations in New Zealand, probably the most significant one since the Employment Contracts Act. So I\u2019d be interested to hear the Minister\u2019s response to that in relation to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI think there\u2019s at least one other amendment that we have that the member seeking to put that amendment hasn\u2019t spoken to yet. So I just remind you that additionally there are some additional amendments on this part that have been raised by other members, which I wouldn\u2019t mind having comment on as well, in Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe first one is Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s provision in relation to Part 1. I think what he has suggested in his amendment has a lot of value and I wouldn\u2019t mind if the Minister would elucidate the House with whether she intends to support Mr Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EAdditionally, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer has put forward what I think is a very valid proposal and amendment on this part. I would also additionally be interested in the Minister\u2019s view on whether she considers this particular amendment as worthy. It also talks about a number of issues that have been touched on in the debate to date, including the continuation of this particular fair pay agreement regime, which is to be repealed, in areas where M\u0101ori are particularly impacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI think in relation to some of the previous questions that we did ask, I know the Minister has responded to some of them, but I don\u2019t really feel she\u2019s given a true answer as to how she will address low pay for M\u0101ori. I know that we\u2019re not allowed to repeat questions, but I understand when they haven\u2019t been addressed that it\u2019s important to bring those to the Minister\u2019s attention. So I wondered if she had considered Ms Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s amendment and whether she intends to vote for it, and, again, if not, then what actions related to this amendment under Part 1 she intends to take in order to further the position of M\u0101ori and address the low pay which has been mentioned in two documents so far in this committee stage in relation to the first part of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab4e7001fd7740e1a70843fd77fe6ef1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab4e7001fd7740e1a70843fd77fe6ef1\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member Camilla Belich for asking why we are all here. What is the purpose for us being here tonight? It\u2019s within the bill and it\u2019s our reason for being here, which is that we are here to repeal the Fair Pay Agreements Act. She asks why that purpose is not explicitly written. The Parliamentary Counsel Office have advised that it\u2019s not standard practice in drafting a repeal bill to include a purpose clause, because the purpose of a repeal bill is to repeal a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc1dfab4707441aba6d47a815ae769c2\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Pretty obvious, really.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b98450ec77764d34ac848371dcc448f7\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: So that\u2019s pretty obvious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThere was also a question from Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March. Did we consider overseas evidence of what other countries do with collective bargaining? There are no fair pay agreement systems that we\u2019ve established here based on any international system\u2014it is very much a unique design\u2014and so in this regard we consider that many of its features are unnecessary and negative for the employment market, especially the requirement that all employers and all employees would be drawn into a fair pay agreement if they chose not to be part of it, especially because it could be initiated by a tiny minority, 10 percent or 1,000 workers, for all. It is quite a blunt tool. But there is no international consensus on the best mix of bargaining systems. There is no one-size-fits-all\u2014even different parts of the OECD have different models.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7c70888c3724bce92b7486a4e6901c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7c70888c3724bce92b7486a4e6901c3\u0022\u003EKAREN CHHOUR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00223c04d7125a294b9ba4d55707081e9a88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c04d7125a294b9ba4d55707081e9a88\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u00229e075a28fefe47c29f6395249aba7efd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e075a28fefe47c29f6395249aba7efd\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chair. Unfortunately, there is one amendment in this part, in the name of my colleague Arena Williams, that she hasn\u2019t had the opportunity to speak to yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f19d0be40d8547c7bf11c2423512ccd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f19d0be40d8547c7bf11c2423512ccd6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s been plenty of opportunities. We\u2019ve been taking calls. What\u2019s been happening is that people have been drifting into Part 2. I\u2019ve been trying to bring people back to Part 1 and there\u2019s been ample opportunities for people to take a call and to focus on that part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e90844f29b4c46d2a2a471aef64bfc2d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00224ffb50c6021746f2aa589fbe671bd3d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ffb50c6021746f2aa589fbe671bd3d0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Amendment Paper 2 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e3f290039ede484c80f4a14d5b1c1d41\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5dad0658c8241ad8ab840b0dc6d69ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5dad0658c8241ad8ab840b0dc6d69ab\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to insert new clause 3 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e2b78cd2d50d412ea1f5fe6afd3eb35c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002231518966453b4afeb55f3f2170bd7a8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231518966453b4afeb55f3f2170bd7a8f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to delete clause 4 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ead734b277124f4a9043928237ab0176\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc7ef8eafd8643c2a2623f650ff0873f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc7ef8eafd8643c2a2623f650ff0873f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Part 1 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00227a0d8a0c8b9b478a981d2b7dd0732d63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a0d8a0c8b9b478a981d2b7dd0732d63\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chairperson. Just checking that the amendment in my name\u2014was that in Part 1? I\u2019m pretty sure it was; it just didn\u2019t get a vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002275e0fc7c62bc4c888a765bfda0c69185\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275e0fc7c62bc4c888a765bfda0c69185\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Was it a tabled amendment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022931aacc79b5a413c9dcb327eea5bc478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022931aacc79b5a413c9dcb327eea5bc478\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah\u2014I mean, if it\u2019s not, I\u2019ll live with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00226493833b8ed74182ba574713e59ab247\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226493833b8ed74182ba574713e59ab247\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s in Part 1 of Schedule 1, so you\u2019ve got time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cfbf2e5986ce4f8da0add01e61e3e143\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f8064a51af04aef9e30d199bfb84c49\u0022\u003EPart 2  Repeal and revocations \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002263975409fd244cf5a38f82574632dbda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263975409fd244cf5a38f82574632dbda\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 5 to 7\u2014repeal and revocations\u2014and Schedule 2. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u00225aba64f0f240460bbe4078db3184a064\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225aba64f0f240460bbe4078db3184a064\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m grateful to have a call, the first call in Part 2 of the debate. I have an amendment that I want to speak to, first, in relation to this particular part, and I think that the amendment that I\u2019ve tabled corrects a mistake in the drafting of this bill. I\u2019d like to direct the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety to Schedule 2, Part 1, in relation to the consequential amendments. This consequential amendment looks at the Employment Relations Act 2000 and replaces section 132(2) with a new section entirely, as part of the consequential amendments. Unfortunately, when this was reproduced a few words were omitted, meaning that, in my view\u2014and I\u2019m happy to hear an alternative view from the Minister\u2014the Employment Relations Act in fact is amended by this Part 2 of the repeal bill and, unfortunately, results in the words \u201Cincluding overtime payment rates, and penalty rate payments\u201D being removed from the Employment Relations Act 2000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EEmployment Relations Act 2000 in employment law is, obviously, the primary piece of legislation that people look to in order to determine what goes in employment relations and in unemployment law, and so I think\u2014and I\u2019m sure the Minister would agree\u2014that changing this particular Act during urgency, with no select committee process, removing the specific reference to the type of evidence that could be included in the Employment Relations Authority and, specifically, losing the reference to overtime payments and penalty rates, shouldn\u2019t be included in this bill. There shouldn\u2019t be amendments to a primary piece of legislation like the Employment Relations Act 2000, which are substantive and not related to the fair pay agreements repeal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI did look through all of the other consequential amendments; I couldn\u2019t find another one that appeared to delete words from a primary piece of legislation. But I was concerned to see this, and so that\u2019s why I put an amendment in my name in the committee in order to correct that. As much as I don\u2019t want to see this piece of legislation improved, as I\u2019m fundamentally opposed to it, I also don\u2019t want to see New Zealand workers lose out in relation to the specificity of including overtime payment rates and penalty rates. I\u2019m happy to be corrected, if the Minister receives advice that that is incorrect, but, from my reading of it, it appears to me that in relation to the type of evidence that the authority may get, these are not included.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ENow, it may be able to be argued that penalty rate payments are no longer a part of most people\u2019s agreements, and I would agree with that. In some instances, however, there may be older employment agreements which were in place that may reference penalty rates, and so I think that without scrutiny, without a proper process, it would be wrong to just discard the reference to penalty payments, especially in a completely different piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EOvertime rates, however, are fundamentally important and are included in many different individual and collective employment agreements, and so removal of those, as I understand is specified in this repeal Act, would not be something that the Minister should be doing\u2014especially, as I\u2019ve said, in an urgency procedure with no select committee process. I see the Minister is receiving advice, so I\u2019m happy to be corrected on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EBut that is the purpose of the Amendment Paper that is in my name and I would invite the Minister, if indeed there has been an error, to agree to my amendment and include it with the passage of the bill, to make sure that people get what they\u2019re entitled to and that there isn\u2019t an inadvertent exclusion of these particular payment rates from the primary piece of employment legislation in New Zealand. So I\u2019m interested to hear the Minister\u2019s response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022c61b80b87c444328999c992ddd6f2b22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c61b80b87c444328999c992ddd6f2b22\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I thought I would respond to this one quickly, to get it out of the way. The reason why we have put in this specific amendment, which is to replace section 132(2) of the Employment Relations Act, is to return to the status quo from before we had the fair pay agreements. It was only during the process of the Fair Pay Agreements Act that this provision for overtime rate payments and the penalty rate payments was introduced into the law, and so, by removing this, we are going back to the status quo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002259e62f14008a4c998fc73550d2e6d2ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259e62f14008a4c998fc73550d2e6d2ea\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and congratulations on your role. It\u2019s quite exciting. I would like to talk about something which covers, really, the whole bill, but this is probably the appropriate part to talk about it. That is the fact that this bill has been rushed, and I have real concerns about legislative quality. The irony is that this is coming from a party whose main plank in the coalition agreement is legislative and regulatory quality. Now, I\u2019ve heard about the regulatory impact statement and the nonsense as to why that wasn\u2019t got\u2014so I won\u2019t go there, but I do have a number of specific questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThese are questions based on the Regulatory Standards Bill that David Seymour had and that will no doubt be reincarnated in this Parliament. One of the main planks of that bill, which talks about good regulatory and legislative quality, is that the people who are affected by the bill have been consulted. Now, there are a number of people who are currently negotiating fair pay agreements, and what I would like to know from the Minister\u2014a clear answer\u2014is what engagement have you had with the industries and the unions that are leading the bargaining in respect of fair pay agreements, because they are directly affected by this, and by your party\u2019s own creed, you require consultation with them. So that\u2019s the first thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe second question I have is that, in that set of principles around good legislative quality, there needs to be an exploration of other options. What I don\u2019t want to hear from the Minister is her doctrine. I don\u2019t want to hear her dogma. What I want to hear is the process that she went through, which her own party requires, to explore other options which were different to or other than a wholesale repeal of the fair pay agreements. What I see in this party is a party that says one thing and does another, and that\u2019s utterly incoherent, it\u2019s inconsistent, and it doesn\u2019t come well from someone who\u2019s now in Government. So that\u2019s my second question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMy third question is this: by the ACT Party\u2019s own principles of legislative quality, an analysis should be done of the costs and benefits of this legislation. I don\u2019t want the ACT Party\u2019s reckons on this. What I want to know is what analysis has been done of the costs and the benefits of having fair pay agreements on the one hand, which raise the wages of our lowest-paid workers, and what the benefits and costs are of abolishing, of sweeping aside, better wages for workers in some of our most critical industries. Don\u2019t give me the Business Roundtable\u2019s analysis, Minister. What I want to know is what independent analysis has been done in the current environment\u2014not back when the original legislation was passed, which was a different economy. I want to know what it is now in the economy that we have today, where wages are under pressure, where people are under pressure. So please give me that analysis and assure me that you will hold yourself to the very same standards that you are proposing to hold other legislators to. This bill is a real step backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo what I would like to know is: are you following your own procedure of legislative quality? And I\u2019d also like to know whether this legislation meets the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee guidelines, not only for its legislative quality in its wording but also the process it has gone through. It\u2019s a significant change in our policy, and it appears to me that it\u2019s been rushed, it\u2019s under urgency, there\u2019s no consultation, there\u2019s no research done on it. It\u2019s a piece of dogma from the ACT Party and I\u2019d like to hear the Minister\u2019s answers to those four questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002288fea2c0b61944d9bc288f429b7e5990\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288fea2c0b61944d9bc288f429b7e5990\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair. I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve had the chance to congratulate you on your ascension to this position, and I also want to mihi to my colleagues around me who are also very eager to make contributions\u2014substantive, should I say, rather than just asking for a vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI wanted to follow up on the previous member\u2019s contributions around analysis in relation to this bill, and specifically whether a child impact assessment was requested or had been considered at any point. The reason why I ask this is that a lot of the families that would have benefited from fair pay agreements are families with young children and the fair pay agreements would have had an impact on child poverty reduction and would have contributed to our child poverty reduction targets. And so in light of the evidence, analysis\u2014or, as we\u2019re seeing, lack of\u2014I wanted to check what considerations had been given to the impact of child poverty that repealing fair pay agreements would have had, or even any consideration around the benefits that fair pay agreements could have had in relation to our child poverty reduction targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EMany of the people who have spoken in relationship to this bill\u2014whether it\u2019s of picket lines in the media, etc., our parents who have spoken about balancing the needs of serving their children and attending work\u2014and part of the reason for fair pay agreements was to set those minimum standards. So if the Minister would be able to illuminate us on the impacts of child poverty of this bill, that would be great. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI also wanted to check as well\u2014and unpack some of the previous comments she had made in relation to young people. She referenced that level of flexibility and the fact that we have minimum standards, but I wondered if the Minister had any reflections on the fact that we still have minimum wage exemptions for young people in place, and whether fair pay agreements themselves would have helped young people actually be guaranteed those minimum standards as a result\u2014so, I guess, whether she had done any analysis or had spoken to young people in relation to this bill, particularly those who were workers and those who were in low wages. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa86274cd3f149f48a17aa45ffedd1b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa86274cd3f149f48a17aa45ffedd1b9\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I wanted to talk to an amendment that I\u2019ve put on the Table which is a new clause 8, and it talks about the repeal being subject to a view undertaken in three years\u2019 time of how terms and conditions for the workers\u2014generally in early childhood education, bus industries, security industry, cleaning and supermarkets and hospitality have changed or have they not, also in comparison to the conditions now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, the reason for that amendment is I\u2019ve talked to the Minister before about the issue around hospitality workers, and I\u2019ve spoken in this House a lot about the issues around bus drivers\u2014where I\u2019ve seen real insecurity and a race to the bottom of those wages and they have these split shifts so that they spend four hours unpaid in the middle of the day. I\u2019ve also been really concerned\u2014in fact, I was one of the early lobbyists for trying to get the first fair pay agreement, and this is in the time before I was in Parliament\u2014for the Recognised Seasonal Employer workers, because they seemed a particularly vulnerable group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI wondered about these groups of workers who are much more obviously our vulnerable workers, who are struggling to get their pay rates to a decent amount, and I\u2019d like the Minister\u2019s comment on whether she accepts that we have a problem in particular industries and whether she is open to a solution where we actually look at those groups that are particularly vulnerable and are particularly stuck in a kind of cycle of low wage work, and whether we could in fact use this as an opportunity to at least review that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, my friend the Hon Phil Twyford talked about some of the issues around that recognition that there is a problem and whether there is another solution. One of the things I have identified really strongly is that we have almost no information about the majority of workers in New Zealand\u2019s working conditions. We don\u2019t collect the data that comes in from their individual agreements; we don\u2019t know what\u2019s in those individual agreements. We have absolutely no sight over them, so anything could be in them\u2014and it really goes to the point of whether there\u2019s been any analysis here, how much of the problem\u2014of low pay, bad terms and conditions, unsafe conditions\u2014do we really know exists. If we aren\u2019t going to do an inquiry\u2014and usually we would do that in a cost-benefit analysis\u2014what are we doing here? How are we possibly establishing the safety of this decision to repeal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI also see an opportunity if some of these groups were carved out\u2014and we\u2019ve talked about that before. If we were allowed to actually look at those industries and see how they progressed\u2014if they were saved from this sort of complete repeal, then you could actually compare what happened under these conditions with what happens if you don\u2019t do them, and you could see whether there were changes in productivity or changes in wellbeing or changes in terms and conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo these things are very much related to this proposed amendment as a way to go, and I wondered whether you\u2019d be open to that kind of review of these terms and conditions and whether you recognise that we have quite a deep-seated problem in these areas, because I\u2019ve certainly seen it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI also just wanted to comment on the difference I\u2019ve seen in some of the industries that I\u2019ve represented. So I\u2019ve represented the Dairy Workers Union and the dairy workers have an incredible collective agreement. It is a really wonderful agreement and it has meant high wages in that industry and high productivity in that industry. It\u2019s actually extremely flexible\u2014it has a set number of hours that take place over the year so that they can work the seasons, they work the peaks and troughs. But I recognise that that industry is actually mainly quite confident male workers and they have actually been able to collectivise in a way that other groups have not been able to organise and collectivise\u2014who tend to be our women and people with vulnerabilities. So we have a real problem where unionism does work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022338f1792b57f46f8accafdee19eba083\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022338f1792b57f46f8accafdee19eba083\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8dcb3518aaa4389b546324ac69b3c9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8dcb3518aaa4389b546324ac69b3c9f\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you\u2014thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to touch on a few comments quickly. Duncan Webb had a number of questions. He talked, firstly, about whether we had explored a range of other options. My focus has been on, firstly, repealing this legislation, as that has been our commitment through the coalition agreement. That has been, also, our commitment to the 100-day plan. Once this system is repealed, I will then focus my efforts on to next steps, and I look forward to his engagement on those in coming months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThere was concern about whether or not we\u2019d had sufficient time to consult on this law. There has been a wide range of consultation on this law. We, firstly, had the law, in effect, have a consultation period when we went through the fair pay agreement (FPA) legislation the first time round. We had a very wide public consultation during the election process. We have also, two days after I was sworn in at Government, met with both Business New Zealand and the Council of Trade Unions, which represent the unions and businesses that represent both sides of this agreement and argument. But, most importantly, we do have a clear mandate from the public, from people who voted for this Government, to repeal this law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe third question is whether or not there has been analysis done on the cost-benefits of this repeal, and I am delighted to inform the member that, yes, there have been costs and benefits analysed by the Ministry for Business, Innovation, and Employment. That was done in the 2021 regulatory impact statement, but if you look at page 2 of the cover sheet to the fair pay agreements regulatory impact statement that was finalised on 28 November 2023, it does state that there was an exemption granted on the grounds that the regulatory impact statement produced when the FPA system was introduced in 2021 mostly duplicates the analysis needed to repeal the system. So there was no need for a complete new regulatory impact statement, considering that most of this information already existed in a regulatory impact statement on this particular law. Updates were provided where that was relevant, and that was in the cover sheet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe fourth question was about whether or not the drafting met the Legislation Design and Advisory Committee\u2019s guidelines for legislative drafting and procedure. Those were considered during drafting. The guidelines relate to good lawmaking and they were considered throughout the policy development and the drafting of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March asked whether or not we had considered children and considered what impact this law would have on children within New Zealand. I consider that the fair pay agreements system is a blunt tool that affects all employees and all employers within scope within a particular industry, and that would negatively impact on businesses, which would negatively impact on employees, which would negatively impact, therefore, on their families. So, yes, we have considered the effect of what that would be on not just business but employees, families, and all people involved in our labour market and their wider communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWe have a question from Helen White and it was relating to another amendment on the Table, in the name of another member, about whether or not we\u2019d review the system after three years. Because there have not been any fair pay agreements in effect, it would be impossible to review what a system that had never been in place would look like after three years, in order to review what the difference between two systems could be. So we disagree with that amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1cc76d7816f44ecbd46114ce189f099\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1cc76d7816f44ecbd46114ce189f099\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Heamana. I\u2019ll join with other colleagues as well in congratulating you on becoming a presiding officer, and also acknowledge the Minister in the chair, the Hon Brooke van Velden, on becoming a Minister, of course, and, actually, in the interactive way that you\u2019ve participated in this debate\u2014it\u2019s really helpful, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EI was really keen to take a call on Part 2\u2014in particular, to speak briefly on clause 5 and what it actually means to me. It represents the whole passage of that legislation. It represents the enactment of that legislation. It represents, for me, the start of the use of that legislation and the progress by a number of different unions, of different sectors, that have started to progress under that legislation. That means even though it\u2019s one sentence, it means so much. And I want to address all of it that it encompasses within that one clause.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EIn particular, I want to reference the amendment that I\u2019ve tabled in support of security guards throughout Aotearoa. I referenced the second reading speech of my colleague Camilla Belich when she mentioned a young wahine from Kuki Airani, actually\u2014Rosey Ngakopu is her name. I got to speak with her today. She had followed the whole process represented by clause 5, participated in every part of its progress through this House, and also participates in trying to get better wages for security guards by participating with her colleagues. Now it\u2019s going to be taken away. They had all that hope\u2014aspiration for themselves, their families, for the next generations\u2014that that was going to make a difference. Because what they do know is that throughout their careers of being in the security business, nothing else has worked. Absolutely nothing else has worked. We know that. We know it because they\u2019ve experienced it. And now we\u2019re told it\u2019s no good, got to take it out, go back to where we were, and that will fix everything. Well\u2014hello\u2014it will not. It will make things worse\u2014worse for those families; worse for those workers. This House owes it to every New Zealander\u2014not just Rosey; all her colleagues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EOh, well, I do want to say one thing, though, about employers. There are some really good employers out there, because, actually\u2014actually\u2014there are some employers of security guards who value their workers and they value their business. They know that the productivity of their business is impacted by the good work that their security guards do, because they keep their properties safe, they keep their workers safe\u2014they even keep us safe in this building. And they deserve better. As I said before, under the previous system, they have not experienced better, and now, in 2023, they get to operate under another piece of legislation, which is about to be repealed by this House without even being given a chance to succeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a434482b-7ac1-4862-9ce7-13e63289dee3\u0022\u003EThe worst part of it, actually\u2014the worst part of it\u2014is that taking something away takes us backwards, but there doesn\u2019t seem to be any vision of how the future will be for those workers. I think we need to rethink, across this entire House, about how we actually do this kind of kaupapa. Like I said, there are lots of good employers out there who know that value and use it to make more money, which is great for them. And they don\u2019t mind sharing some of that additional income that they generate with their workers. That\u2019s really all I wanted to finish that off. That\u2019s all I really want to say: that we need a better way for those workers into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022 data-id=\u00229e9829daf0cb497b81be8810088c5e7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e9829daf0cb497b81be8810088c5e7f\u0022\u003EDARLEEN TANA (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair, and I am joining the rest of the Whare in congratulating you in your new role, and t\u0113n\u0101 ra t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EI want to pick up very much on something that the member Adrian Rurawhe has talked to. I stand here as\u2014well, in a previous life\u2014a small-business owner here in Aotearoa. After 20 years away living in Europe, I returned home to Aotearoa 10 years ago and we started our new business. I was really stunned, to be very honest, at the low level of pay and conditions for so many workers. So in establishing our own business here, one of the things that we learnt about very quickly was minimum wage, but we also heard about living wage and we strove to pay our employees just that little bit extra. And I admit that it was really, really hard. We all know as small-business owners that cash flow is king. We look at our cost drivers. Yes, for corporates\u2014having come out of that sphere\u2014we are looking at headcount, fulltime-equivalents, human capital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EBut for small-business owners, and particularly here in Aotearoa, and we felt it was exacerbated during COVID, it was the cost of rentals and it was the cost of leasing in our properties. During COVID too, even though it was even tougher, I think one of the things that buoyed us\u2014being able to offer our employees above minimum wage and very close approximated to living wage\u2014was the notion that these were all essential workers. All of our cleaners, all of our mechanics, all of our bus drivers, everyone was an essential worker, and for the first time I felt that actually we recognised these people. We started to say hello to these people. I recall one of the cleaning women\u2014I think it was in a police station\u2014was on the news. Prior to that\u2014entirely invisible to everyone, but thanks to that time, we understood that, actually, essential workers, everybody is pulling their weight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EIn te ao M\u0101ori, we talk about \u201Cte h\u0101pai \u014D\u201D: it\u2019s not just about leadership in the front but it\u2019s also those in the back who are nurturing us, who are caring for us, filling our bellies, cleaning up after us, and getting us from A to B to where they need to get to. I will come to my question in a minute. Because we recognise as small-business owners that these costs are for naught, I want to acknowledge the reality that there are many small-business owners who run their businesses, not just for profit, in spite of the added cost. These are people who are the true entrepreneurs, the true innovators within our community looking to make sure that everybody in the community has a fair share.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EMy question goes to: what evidence does the Minister have that small-business owners do not want to sign up to something that is better than the minimum wage and that indeed sets minimum standards across their industries? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00224080c11728324f5989c637bb55a86517\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224080c11728324f5989c637bb55a86517\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity to take a call here in this committee of the whole House. I really do want to speak to an Amendment Paper that I am putting forward and proposing, and I want to talk about a sector that has been well down the track of putting together their fair pay agreement, and that\u2019s our early childhood educators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really concerned because when the early childhood educators started to work towards this, there was a great excitement that we might see change in the sector. As we know as it stands at the moment, there is a lot of variability of provision of early childhood education within this country. It goes on a continuum, I\u2019d have to say, from really, really amazing\u2014and that\u2019s the majority\u2014but sometimes it can be quite questionable as well. Unfortunately, part of the reason for that is because of the lack of standardisation of minimum terms and conditions for those educators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s where it seems a bit unfair as well, because there are parts of the sector where there is a standardisation of minimum terms and conditions. I\u2019m not just talking about the schooling sector; in the early childhood education sector, we also have the kindergarten teachers who have privy to collective agreements and have that standardisation. That means that there\u2019s a quality control that exists for those young people in a sector where the education of our youngest and most vulnerable New Zealanders is incredibly important because that sets them up for a really good placement for their education and continuing on in their education. In fact, we know that the research shows that if we have a good quality provision of education in those early years, that is likely to continue on and have greater outcomes when those young people move throughout the education system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI know that had we been able to go to select committee there would have been a lot of educators who would have come in to talk to these provisions and what it meant to them. We know that fair pay agreements for them could mean that it would take the competition out of the teaching sector. It would leave teachers able to choose where they wish to work based on reasons like having a shared educational philosophy, wanting to work within certain demographics or in certain areas, or because they wish to upskill in certain aspects of their teaching rather than being driven by their salary packages as they are now. Now, we know that the literature review that was gathered in 2019 had pointed towards this and showed that, I quote, \u201CBy limiting competition on wages and working conditions, a focus (and investment) on quality and innovation-based economic activities may be fostered.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ENow, I was contacted by an early childhood education teacher who was really disappointed that they didn\u2019t get the opportunity to go to select committee, because she was so excited about the fact that they had the opportunity to put together this fair pay agreement, and I wanted to take the opportunity to just read a few words of what she sent through to me. She says: \u201CEarlier this year, I was one of thousands of kaiako and kaimahi across all of early childhood education who came along to the fair pay agreement meetings to vote on the things we wanted to see in our fair pay agreement. We\u2019re extremely disappointed this Government isn\u2019t giving us the opportunity to follow through and work with employers to make these things a reality. We organised our fair pay agreement claims around key ideas. We wanted to improve child-teacher ratios; we wanted to invest in our educators by providing increased sick leave above the minimum for tough conditions we work in; we wanted to win better pay for support staff and unqualified teachers who are on minimum wages and fully funded pay parity for teachers; we wanted learning support that can actually be accessed for all tamariki who need it, and a funding system that works and ensures community-based and Pasifika ECE can thrive. We voted almost unanimously to support this because it\u2019s a vision of the ECE sector that reflects\u201D\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2bf047f1daf4c4b8b9d37ca4c54a576\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2bf047f1daf4c4b8b9d37ca4c54a576\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I wish to speak to a few points raised by the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe. He talked about clause 5, and I really commend him for coming back to a specific part of the bill and to a clause, and I would commend any member for keeping to the bill. He talked about proposing an amendment to allow for security guards to conclude the fair pay agreement. I also want to agree with him that there are good employers; there are good people in our economy who are wanting to support workers. I really thank him for reminding us that there are a lot of people involved in this situation, from both the employment side of being the employer and from the employee side, that genuinely want to provide very good conditions for their workers, but also a lot of workers who really respect their terms of employment, too. That\u2019s what we\u2019re innately debating here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EBut we don\u2019t consider, as a Government, that we wish to have any exemptions to the repeal, because we believe that there is a better way to improve the conditions of workers, for business and employees, without having fair pay agreements, and that is through increased productivity; that is through reducing regulation. When it comes to the cost of living, that\u2019s through reducing inflation overall as an economy. There are ways for us to improve the rights of workers and to allow for a flexible labour market where businesses have confidence to employ and to pay their staff more because they have more money in their own back pockets as well. So while I very much respect and enjoyed his contribution, we disagree with his amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to Darleen Tana, I also want to acknowledge the way you presented your arguments to the committee, too, and you referred to the essential workers and the recognition of them during COVID. I think that\u2019s very important. We want to acknowledge many of the small businesses that run in our economy, as well as the not-for-profit organisations. But, specifically, you asked what evidence I have that small businesses don\u2019t actually want to sign up for this type of agreement. When the Fair Pay Agreements Bill went through Parliament, under the previous term of Government, there was quite a substantial select committee process, and many small-business owners did make submissions against the law change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI did want to point just to one, which came from a small hospitality business. They pointed to the fact that their industry is already paying more. They said, \u201CMany small hospitality businesses have already closed or are operating reduced days and hours only, and they simply can\u2019t pay more. The Fair Pay Agreements Act 2022 would represent further change that would go too far, too fast, with damaging consequences.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThere are many people in our economy who do want to pay their staff more. They genuinely do. I agree. But a blunt tool like a fair pay agreement would have forced some businesses to close their doors, because they wouldn\u2019t have been able to have the conditions that would have been forced on them by a third party that had no knowledge about their particular business or their particular standards within their operation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4c3c7785b85429e8059483dc7554576\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4c3c7785b85429e8059483dc7554576\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022769d7c7c730245a6b22e8bbfe14895a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022769d7c7c730245a6b22e8bbfe14895a2\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Madam Chair. It was very difficult to listen to the contribution from the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety, because I have to say it was rather patronising. However, getting on to the bill, I want to refer to a number of amendments that are on the Table that talk about clause 5 and inserting after repealed \u201Cexcept in relation to the particular industries that have already started to have their fair pay agreements negotiated.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EOne example is that of an amendment that was put forward by the Hon Jan Tinetti, where the amendment is: \u201Cexcept in relation to\u201D\u2014blah blah blah\u2014\u201Cearly childhood education industry may be concluded and regulated by the provisions of the Act and will not be affected by this bill.\u201D I just want to point out that it is really important to note that that work is under way. A significant amount of human resource and also expenditure and financial resource has already been invested into negotiating these particular fair pay agreements. Now, I know that that Minister and her political party and the Government is very cognisant of the need to make sure that taxpayers\u2019 money is spent wisely, so to stop these particular agreements from being pursued whilst they are in the midst of being negotiated, to me, makes no sense, and I question whether that is a good use of the taxpayers\u2019 dollar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI also want to make mention of the cover sheet that the Minister has referred to on a number of occasions whilst in the chair today. It\u2019s important to note that, because there is no regulatory impact statement, and the Minister has stated on a number of occasions that that particular cover sheet actually provides evidence in a number of areas to support her wishes to repeal fair pay agreements. I, as a previous Minister, don\u2019t ever recall a cover sheet providing the amount of evidence that I would need or require to make any decisions, and so I am very impressed by what this cover sheet may look like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI just want to refer to some areas that the Minister has already pointed out that the cover sheet provides her cover with to be able to make this repeal. I want to start with the issue that was raised by Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March. He was talking about the impacts on child poverty and with reference to these particular workforces, and at that point the Minister said that there was cover through the cover sheet. I want the Minister to respond to my question with respect to what proportion of children living in poverty are actually living in households that have bus drivers, cleaners, coach drivers, hospitality workers, security officers and guards, commercial cleaners, early childhood education workers, and supermarket workers as the household providers for those households. Important to note, because between 40 and 50 percent of children living in poverty are living in working households, so it would be good to know what the cover sheet said about these particular workforces and the number of children that are living in poverty in those households.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want the Minister to also respond with respect to the proportion of those workforces\u2014and these are the ones that are under negotiation at the moment, and I won\u2019t repeat those workforces\u2014that are women, because when I look at supermarket workers, early childhood education workers, hospitality workers, I can already state, through just general knowledge and understanding, that they are highly feminised workforces. How many, or what proportion, of those workforces are women? What proportion of those workforces are M\u0101ori and Pacific? It seems that that must be covered off by the cover sheet that she got as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI also want to know what the productivity losses will be for those workforces\u2014because productivity is such a concern for the Minister and she\u2019s raised it on a number of occasions\u2014when those particular workers in those workforces are required to individually bargain for their rights in their workplaces, when they are pushed to the point where they do end up going on strike because a negotiation has not been able to be found due to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223deb49e1b4914a3ba039b0dd44bfe2f8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair\u2014Madam Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ca37a1fc75f4b5d986e247c418f877e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair, I\u2019m not finished\u2014I\u2019m not finished. I want to know what the productivity loss will be for those workforces because of the fact that we do not have fair pay agreements in place and our bus drivers, our hospitality workers, our security officers and guards, our commercial cleaners, the early childhood education workers, and the supermarket workers will continue to need to negotiate individually or be pushed in their workplaces to have to strike or take action because of the fact that the employer, the union, and the workers were not able to come to a fair agreement because the Minister is deciding to take fair pay agreements out of the picture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ENow, all of these things, based on what we\u2019ve heard from the Minister in her contributions in the committee today, should be\u2014should be\u2014covered by that very comprehensive cover sheet that stands in place of the regulatory impact statement. Therefore, I look forward to hearing from the Minister how the cover sheet\u2014and I\u2019ll just reiterate\u2014covers off the impacts on child poverty for those in those workforces; how the impact on M\u0101ori, Pacific, and women is covered off in those workforces through that cover sheet; how the productivity losses because of the repeal of fair pay agreements is covered off in that particular cover sheet; and, of course, because it\u2019s of the utmost importance to that Minister and the Government, the expenditure that has been wasted because the Government decides to no longer pursue fairness in the workplace for our workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EMake sure, please, Minister, that when you talk about the expenditure put towards actually negotiating these fair pay agreements, you align that next to the productivity losses we can expect from those workforces because we didn\u2019t, or they didn\u2019t, have the courage to continue down the track of enforcing what is only right, which is fair pay agreements for these workforces.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002281db4a31351a46a0bb931f887576ebf6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281db4a31351a46a0bb931f887576ebf6\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I didn\u2019t actually catch that. Did you call me? Thank you very much. How good. It\u2019s actually quite hard! You\u2019d think it\u2019d be easy\u2014I\u2019m the closest to you\u2014and I cannot hear. I apologise. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very pleased to have the opportunity, the first one of the evening. I have been trying for some time, so I\u2019m very pleased. Because, of course, now we are in Part 2, the substantive part of this bill\u2014the bill that talks about repealing this, the Fair Pay Agreements Act 2022. I, like all of my colleagues, many of whom are yet to take a call, are keen to talk about this bill\u2014this Act, sorry\u2014that the bill seeks to repeal. As we will see from the large number of amendments, many of which are yet to be touched on, there is a lot of interest in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EBut before I get on to the two points that I wanted to make, I wish to touch on something that the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety raised in her response to the contribution of the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe. The Minister mentioned that instead of this bill\u2014there is no other piece of legislation to look to increase wages, of course, but the Minister did say that instead of fair pay agreements, the way in which this Government intends to increase wages is through increased productivity, reduced regulation, and reducing the cost of living. But, of course, reducing the cost of living isn\u2019t necessarily linked to wages. One way in which to address the cost of living is to increase wages, which the fair pay agreements would have undoubtedly done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, if we talk about increasing productivity, this has been the rationale of those on the right for as long as anyone in this House can remember\u2014for as long as anyone in this House can remember: if only we can increase productivity, then workers would be better off. The problem with that, of course, is that productivity is linked to wages, and there is a reason why Australia and other countries that follow what was in place in the Fair Pay Agreements Act\u2014the Act that this bill, in Part 2, seeks to repeal\u2014have higher productivity: the two go hand in hand. Since 1991, New Zealand\u2019s productivity has not kept up with other countries that have maintained what is in the Fair Pay Agreements Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESo the committee may understand why we on this side are a little bit sceptical of the claim that instead of this Act, which will be repealed by this bill, which will and has been proven to improve conditions and increase wages and get a fair standard across the board\u2014people shake their heads, but they\u2019re not looking at evidence; they\u2019re only looking at their own view that they don\u2019t want to pay higher wages. It is a fact. Instead of this, we go on some theoretical concept of increasing productivity, without any concept at all for the committee\u2019s consideration tonight as to how they want to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EPerhaps that, of course, is linked to reducing regulation. Of course, the issue with reducing regulation, in so many examples in the past, is that it\u2019s often regulations that relate to health and safety at work, that relate to conditions at work, and many of them relate to wages\u2014such as regulations around overtime, for example, and regulations around additional pay conditions such as getting additional pay for working on weekends, or working at nights or shift allowances or meal allowances and all those sorts of things. So when we talk about something that has proven\u2014if left alone, if left to the market solely\u2014it has not benefited workers, and reducing regulations which in so many instances protect workers, I\u2019m failed to be convinced by the Minister\u2019s response that this is an adequate alternative to what is being repealed by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIf we start right from the start, in the purpose, it says the purpose of this Act\u2014in reference to Fair Pay Agreements Act 2022\u2014\u201Cis to enable employment terms to be improved for employees\u201D. It\u2019s extraordinary that there are people in this House that would oppose that. I put it that way because one might think that if there was disagreement, this was the best way in which to achieve it. Why on earth\u2014and this is my question to the Minister\u2014why on earth hasn\u2019t it been spelt out, on something tangible that would improve wages for workers in New Zealand? Why wasn\u2019t that put forward: a plan, something tangible, there in place, so that we could debate an alternative? Instead, we have a theory and a loose promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u002223f0913c647048a2880c182c9c058902\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223f0913c647048a2880c182c9c058902\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E First, may I congratulate the Chair Maureen Pugh on her new role and, of course, congratulate the Minister Brooke van Velden as well. Our daughters are looking to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EBefore I ask my question, I would like to remind us that we\u2019re here representing the New Zealand public, and the people of Aotearoa believe in a fair and a just society. Equal pay for work is fair and just. We have evidence and advice from the Ministry for Women, who tell us the gender pay gap is an indicator of the difference between women\u2019s and men\u2019s earnings. We can be proud in New Zealand that we have reduced this gap from 16.8 percent in 1998 through concerted efforts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, this has fluctuated over the years. The gender pay gap for women compared to men is 8.6 percent; 8.6 percent matters. This effectively means that women work without pay for one whole month of the year. The gender pay gap for w\u0101hine M\u0101ori, Pacific, and Asian women and disabled women is significantly higher than 8.6 percent. Minister, I think you would agree that Kate Sheppard is a revered New Zealander. We celebrate women suffragettes. In select committee room 5, we have a whole camellia on the wall to show our respect for women who fought for women\u2019s rights. New Zealand is so proud of Kate Sheppard, in fact, fighting for a fair and just society that she is on our $10 note. Kate Sheppard fought for women\u2019s rights and would be appalled that we are still fighting for equal rights and pay for women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EFair pay agreements (FPAs) are a key lever to reduce the gender pay gap. The new generation of women deserve equal pay for work. The gender pay gap will not close itself. We cannot become complacent, because the gap will not close without sustained and intentional actions. How will the Minister mitigate the disproportionate impact of stagnant lower wages for women without FPA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec7c052d94cc4999a3a0295f9868d8b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec7c052d94cc4999a3a0295f9868d8b9\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Madam Chair, for the call. It\u2019s wonderful to have a call given to the South Island, so I appreciate the solidarity for the South Island, Madam Chair, and I also congratulate you on both of your roles here in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI have a number of\u2014I was about to call them Supplementary Order Papers, so forgive me for the old terminology. We now have Amendment Papers, and I have three of these on Part 2 to speak to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll begin talking about\u2014now, I understand it has a number and a letter on it, so, again, it\u2019s new terminology that we\u2019re using. My amendment inserts, after the word \u201Crepealed\u201D in clause 5, \u201Cexcept in relation to grocery, supermarket industry may be concluded and regulated by the provisions of the Act and will not be affected by this bill.\u201D What my Amendment Paper specifically speaks to is the supermarket fair pay agreement, which is well advanced. We know that there is a very large group of supermarket workers who are affected by this legislation and by the original Act and then by the repeal bill that we are debating in the Chamber tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI want to speak to some comments around productivity, specifically in relation to supermarket workers, and what I have is a copy of the FIRST Union submission on the original bill. One of the comments that FIRST Union has made, which I think members opposite do need to actually look at, is that while we do have a productivity challenge in New Zealand, we have a bigger challenge in terms of wage growth. Wage growth has not actually kept up with the small productivity gains that we have had since 1991 and since the introduction of the Employment Contracts Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOne of the comments that I thought was really useful and absolutely speaks to my experience, having worked with supermarket workers, many of whom are on low wages, is that workers who are worried about money, stressed about money\u2014often I met with workers who hadn\u2019t had enough to eat that day\u2014are not going to be productive workers. So the connection between wages and the ability for people to pay their rent, pay for fuel, feed themselves, and not be worried about whether the mortgage is going to be paid this week, and the stress and the concern that that gives them\u2014these are real-life issues that are faced by supermarket workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EFIRST Union in their submission\u2014and the reason I raised this submission tonight is that because we have had a process through urgency without going through select committee process, over the past few days I have spoken to a number of supermarket workers, many of whom have given me written contributions that they want me to make on their behalf tonight about what the repeal of fair pay agreements mean to them. So I come back to my Amendment Paper and why I\u2019m specifically wanting to add a statement after the clause here around ensuring that that supermarket fair pay agreement is concluded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ENow, I do have another couple of Amendment Papers in relation to Part 2. The first one would insert new clause 5B, notwithstanding clause 5A, stating that any fair pay agreement currently under negotiation will have its term fixed by the Employment Relations Authority and will still come into force. The reason for my amendment of this nature is to reflect the work that has been done but reflect as well that many of these workers who are covered by the agreements that are currently being negotiated do represent vulnerable workers. And there will be real benefit to us as we\u2019ve talked about bus drivers, for example. We\u2019ve had a significant issue attracting people into working as bus drivers. In our region, Nelson-Tasman, we\u2019ve had to bring in a number of migrant bus drivers to work for the new bus service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOne of the things that we can do is ensure that those fair pay agreements, which have been brought because there was a genuine, valid reason there around the need for higher wages\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00224e741e7784084331956085f5bf201278\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e741e7784084331956085f5bf201278\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I wish to speak to a number of questions that members of this House have raised, speaking firstly to the Hon Kieran McAnulty\u2019s questions regarding why I haven\u2019t specifically spelt out alternatives and different approaches going forward, and that is because my first focus has been to fulfil the Government\u2019s commitment on our 100-day plan and our coalition commitment and then I will consider what else will be effective at improving wages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI wanted to touch on the Hon Carmel Sepuloni\u2019s questions, of which there were a number, so please bear with me. The cover sheet does not have analysis or evidence to make decisions about what system is preferred, which is what the member was referring to, but of course, what the member is not taking into consideration is that this cover sheet is not the only evidence that\u2019s provided to the member. There was an exemption from the regulatory impact statement requirements that was provided and you can find this in the cover sheet on page 2. It says because there is an existing regulatory impact statement from 2021 already providing analysis on the status quo, we would essentially be carrying out the exact same replica of analysis, so there was no need to replicate what we already had in the original regulatory impact statement. All of that evidence is still valid for the member to read. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EShe mentioned about a lot of the work having been undertaken by parties to the fair pay agreements already under the bargaining process, but forgot to mention that the agreements are all in their very early stages. So while this law has been in place for about a year, many of the bargaining sides have yet to actually meet. This is why we consider it\u2019s quite important to repeal at this stage because we can repeal it quickly and save a lot of time, resource, energy from the bargaining process when the law would be repealed. It\u2019s important for us to repeal this law before Christmas so people who may be involved in an elongated process don\u2019t need to be because it will be repealed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThere was a question here about the percentage of women, for example, that are in coverage in specific sectors throughout the different types of bargaining process. Now, on the face of it, that sounds like quite a simple question, but it is actually very complex. And that\u2019s because the law is not actually clear who is and is not within coverage within different sectors; which types of employees can and cannot be covered. While I acknowledge it\u2019s a nice question, it is actually very difficult and it would have been difficult for any Government to even find the data for this statistical analysis. A good example for this is if you have a lodge in a very remote area where you have one worker that might be a receptionist, but then they also might be a cleaner and then they also might do waitering in a small restaurant at night, they might be captured by three different agreements under three different industries, and the employer might actually also be covered by a range of different processes too. So that statistical information isn\u2019t available and it might not ever be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThen there was another specific question there about how much expenditure we had spent on this process. To date, there has been $481,250 in funding been provided to bargaining sides that have initiated fair pay agreements, and there has been $750,000 provided to the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions. Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and the Employment Relations Authority received funding through Budget 2021 and Budget 2022 to operationalise and deliver the fair pay agreement system. That funding was $6.33 million in Budget 2021 and $9.226 million in Budget 2022, and for 23/24 the funding is approximately $16.209 million in operating expenditure.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ETo Kahurangi Carter; she raised some concerns about the gender pay gap\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c910710196994b53ac709883af5db576\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the productivity loss to not having fair pay agreements, is my other part of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a4420a15210496b8d432e937fb6da82\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: Coming back to the member: because she\u2019s asked for it to be specifically about statistical data in relation to those specific areas that we\u2019d already touched on that does not actually exist, that question is not possible to answer. Kahurangi Carter raised concerns about gender pay gap. I want to note for the member that the Equal Pay Act already creates a framework for inequalities between gender if you are in an equivalent role, but I very much enjoyed her contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022af493009ad7646ac8e63227ebd89664c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af493009ad7646ac8e63227ebd89664c\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00223693d7bc87b54142b59b8d5385fb04c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223693d7bc87b54142b59b8d5385fb04c3\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It is really good to be able to take this call and\u2014if I can indulge, Madam Chair\u2014there\u2019s actually a number of items that I\u2019m going to be covering across the various different Amendment Papers that have been tabled tonight in relation to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EOne of the first things that I do want to touch on is that, as the member knows, previously to this bill, we just had a bill that removed the maximum sustainable employment element to the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act. It was brought up in that bill, time and time again, and it is part of this bill that because we are not going through a select committee process, it is imperative that this side of the House, in the Opposition\u2014and, of course, Government members, if they have questions as well\u2014have sufficient time to be able to analyse this bill, to be able to provide contributions as well as speak to the various amendments that have been tabled today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI just want to touch on, before going into my actual questions for the Minister, a couple of points that the Minister raised around the lack of evidence. So what we do know is this Government is hell-bent on making sure we have evidence-based policy. Now, I appreciate that every Government has their particular tenets and for this Government it\u2019s evidence-based policy. But then what I look to in relation to evidence-based policy is that for us on this side of the House, the reason why we have the regulatory impact statements is especially\u2014especially\u2014when you have a bill going through urgency where you cannot seek advice from officials, you cannot have officials come to the select committee and brief the committee, and you cannot call for submissions, you are able to build, basically, an evidence base from the various submissions from the advice the officials provide you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo I do acknowledge Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) officials who are in the Chamber tonight, who have provided a cover sheet, a regulatory impact statement. A really key thing about that regulatory cover sheet is it actually refers to the full impact statement that was provided to the House in 2021 as part of the introduction of the Fair Pay Agreements Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EIf we look to the actual full impact statement, and because it constantly cross-references it\u2014why I am bringing this into the committee is because this is the evidence base in which we here, on this side of the House, not being able to have a select committee process; not being able to call for submissions; call for advice; even have our own independent adviser. I\u2019m going to refer to a number of items within the full impact statement, because it\u2019s been cross-referenced and because that is the only evidence base that we have tonight to be able to scrutinise that bill on the Table in which we form the basis of a number of amendments that have been tabled tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo I look to the full impact statement, and if members like to be able to look at it, I understand the copies have run out on the Table\u2014but we look to pages 58 and 59. Annex Two covers the best capable advice that was provided at the time for wages over time. The reason why I refer to that is because at the very start of that full impact statement, it talks about, \u201CPart 1: The employment relations/employment standards system recognises there is an inherent imbalance of bargaining power in the employment context.\u201D That is in relation to the problem definition, in which there was a Fair Pay Agreement Act, which was passed, and therefore the result of this Government\u2014you have to argue against that problem statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EBut it is clearly set out in the evidence that was provided at the time that we had the Fair Pay Agreements Act that there is an inherent imbalance of bargaining power in the employment context. The evidence base that was provided by those officials is set out in Annex Two, and when you look at the wages over time\u2014for example, figure A2, \u201CCleaners and laundry workers\u201D: \u201CApproximately 17 percent of cleaners and laundry workers are union members.\u201D; that\u2019s by the by. But then, when you have a look at the cleaners and laundry workers, you look at perhaps over the five-year period, the mean hourly rate is around $18.60 and then you look at the median hourly, looking five years out, to $17.50. Then you look at wages over time. Around 2018, the mean hourly was $18.35 and then the median hourly was $17.25.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo, then, I compare that to, say, figure A3, which is \u201CAutomobile, bus, and rail drivers\u201D; \u201CThe union density for automobile, bus, and rail drivers is 36 percent.\u201D Now, why this is important, Madam Chair, is because there is actually an amendment that has been tabled by the Hon Willie Jackson at 4.50 p.m. tonight, which says in clause 5 to insert after \u201Crepealed\u201D, \u201Cexcept in relation to FPA 01-003-2022 - Interurban, urban, rural, and urban bus transport - Bus drivers, coach drivers, and cleaners\u201D. So, therefore, you compare figure A2 and figure A3, the union density, and you look at the different mean hourly\u2014[Bell rung] Madam Chair, if I can continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022912d32c9082e4d6e8f632db6762ce5a4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I call on the Hon Barbara Edmonds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252818f17de464d79957b7a79beb40104\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair, very much. So you compare the 17 percent of cleaners and laundries who are unionised to that of automobile, bus, and rail drivers, and that\u2019s at 36 percent. Now, if the committee can remember, I said the five-year outlook: the mean hourly for cleaners was $18.60. In a sector where there is higher union membership, the mean hourly five years out is $25.30. There is actually a considerable difference which shows why having collective bargaining power is incredibly important. So that\u2019s why this is the evidence base in which I support the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s amendment to this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EBut then we also think about the wider context of why the fair pay agreements was brought in, and it is set to cover around 200,000 to 300,000 workers. Now, the Minister did talk about productivity costs\u2014or perhaps that was the answer that she didn\u2019t actually provide. So, again, going to the full impact statement, the actual cost that there will be\u2014and this is where, for me, it is the worst thing about this particular bill going through urgency and why we didn\u2019t have any evidence base. Back in 2021, it said that there\u2019s going to be an estimated $150 million to $600 million per year total monetised benefits. That\u2019ll be $150 million to $600 million\u2014yes, that\u2019s right\u2014going to some of our lowest-paid workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227340fdea16c04280a6547dca278248e9\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: How does that not help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216fce75648924f6a881355aa8fbd14ba\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: How does that not help the cost of living crisis that that Government absolutely has sworn to try and attack? When this full impact statement in 2021\u2014so there will be inflation on top of that. I\u2019d be really keen to understand from the Minister: what advice has the Minister received in relation to the costs, which are therefore then passed on to the lowest-paid workers? There\u2019s roughly 200,000 to 300,000 workers. So, again, the 2021 full impact statement estimated $150 million to $600 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI understand that there are some caveats within the full impact statement that are provided by MBIE; that they had to make some assumptions. But you know what? Forecasting of any policy provides some assumptions. As to their confidence in that assumption, I\u2019m not quite sure because I couldn\u2019t quite find it in the full impact statement. But that\u2019s why it had to go through a consultation process. Again, the policy process: the full impact statement is the very start of the policy process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo as that time progresses, therefore, you get more evidence to build a base as to actually, \u201CYes, this is true.\u201D You might have a submitter who does say, \u201CActually, our median hourly for five years plus is actually more than $18.30 or whatever it is. It is actually around this amount.\u201D Therefore, officials can provide advice to both Opposition and Government members to say to the select committee, \u201CWe believe this may actually cost more than $150 million to $600 million. That was at the time; there are rough estimates based on some assumptions.\u201D But again, we are not able to have that evidence or advice at the moment, because we have not been able to scrutinise the bill within the full parliamentary process. That is the issue as to why you have so many members in this Chamber who are standing on their feet asking for time to be able to ask these questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EFor me, as a Pacific woman and a person who worked in an economic and finance place for a long time as my professional career\u2014I come from a family of cleaners. I come from a family of hospital cleaners, who are some of the lowest-paid workers, but, thankfully, they\u2019ve been able to collectively bargain to be able to lift some of those wages. They may not be the wages that they want to have, but actually the ability to stand together as a sector and to be able to argue for fairer pay is exactly what this particular Act tried to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister\u2014and it\u2019s good to see that officials are here on site to be able to help\u2014is: what advice has she received in relation to the costings as to what will be lost by the workers? If it wasn\u2019t $150 million to $600 million\u2014again, the range is variable, but I\u2019m just going off the full impact statement that was provided in 2021. For me, it is clearly shown in the evidence that has been provided in the annex that there is a clear discrepancy by the amount of those who are unionised and by those that aren\u2019t\u2014just using the laundry and cleaners and the bus drivers. So that\u2019s why I stand in support of the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s particular amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI also want to quickly\u2014while I\u2019ve got the time\u2014absolutely ask the Minister to put in a review. There are a number of amendments on that Table which seek that you do review this, and I absolutely urge the Government, given we haven\u2019t had an opportunity in select committee, to consider a review for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef6823ffcf3f42db81ddd0ddde6d7152\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef6823ffcf3f42db81ddd0ddde6d7152\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I just tautoko the k\u014Drero there given from the Hon Barbara Edmonds\u2014one part of the k\u014Drero she talked about. I come from a family of blue-collar workers, too. My mother was a cleaner here, actually, in the late 1960s-1970s. I know that\u2019s probably an occupation foreign to most of the other side, who probably haven\u2019t even cleaned their offices. But the reality is that, for us, it\u2019s heartbreaking actually, as we put this forward, because, as my good friend Barbara Edmonds said, it\u2019s the most vulnerable workers who are being targeted here\u2014the most vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EAs I said earlier, and I\u2019ll continue to say with regards to this kaupapa, here we are, a week or so away from Christmas, and we\u2019re putting up this bill. Here we have bus drivers, cleaners, and coach drivers, hospitality workers, security officers, commercial cleaners, early childhood education workers, and supermarket workers all being targeted with this bill. So that\u2019s the reason why we\u2019re supporting bus drivers in this particular instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBeing a bus driver is not the most glamorous job, Madam Chair\u2014well, you wouldn\u2019t know, of course, probably having everyone drive for you! But the reality is that it\u2019s not a glamorous job. My good friend here Helen White has represented bus drivers in Auckland as a lawyer in former times, and they\u2019ve had a real push in terms of their conditions. Axing fair pay agreements will shave up to $10,000 a year off a bus driver\u2019s salary\u2014that\u2019s just according to the Council of Trade Unions, who are a very reliable source, as we all know. They said that on Checkpoint today, and they also said that the Government\u2019s plan, in terms of getting rid of the policy by Christmas, is really threatening the lives of so many people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThere seems to be an inability to understand that, and an inability to understand also that bus drivers keep quitting\u2014and have been quitting for the last couple of years. It\u2019s normal for four or five bus drivers to quit each week because the conditions are just too much for them. They\u2019re saying that they never see their families. The new recruits are not lasting long. They\u2019ve said the hours are just far too strenuous. So, in terms of what\u2019s been happening with regards to the drivers, the question I have for the Minister is: what\u2019s her consultation been with the bus drivers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWith us deciding to not have a select committee process, obviously that would have been an opportunity not just for drivers but for workers right across the spectrum to have put a few questions up, to discuss their future. What sort of consultation has the Minister had? Is she still considering consulting with bus drivers? Because the reality is that the right thing is not being done by this Government, and these workers deserve respect, deserve to be treated in the right way. As I said, it\u2019s not the most glamorous of jobs, but a job that\u2019s being filled by immigrants, Pasifika, M\u0101ori, people who make contributions in our community, and the consultation process has been a huge priority for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo the question is: has there been any consultation? Will there be any consultation? Is there any process? Or will you just walk all over these workers, like National and National Governments always have done in the past? What is the strategy going forward?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u00225cc725c6afa54f12b23b5c8824a87583\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cc725c6afa54f12b23b5c8824a87583\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00227ce9307b1b564fde869c15af7cd8ee87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ce9307b1b564fde869c15af7cd8ee87\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Well, I\u2019m really pleased to be able to speak to the proposed amendment in my name, which is to add a new clause: clause 8. I think the bill would be really strengthened by adding new clause 8. New clause 8 specifies that the Ministry for Business, Innovation and Employment must undertake a specific analysis and report to the Minister on the particular impact of market flexibility. That\u2019s really important, because in some of the debates we\u2019ve heard in the first and the second reading of this bill, there\u2019s been a lot of discussion around flexibility in our employment market and how important it is to have that flexibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOne of the real points of contention that we are still not able to see eye to eye on is the fact that this side of the House has the view that fair pay agreements would improve market flexibility. It\u2019s for that very reason\u2014because if you have a bottom line in terms of employment pay and working conditions that operate in Gisborne or in in Southland or in Northland, and if you are a dairy worker, for example, in any of the different areas or a manufacturer in those areas, it means that you can uplift your family and go to a different part of New Zealand and you are guaranteed the same wages and conditions. So for employers in some of those parts of New Zealand that struggle to seek and get employees, that means that we have greater market flexibility if we have a bottom line in terms of conditions and also wages right across the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhat my amendment to the bill proposes is that there needs to be that analysis for the impact of market flexibility on the New Zealand economy over the past 40 years, and also what impact this has had on the wages of New Zealand workers. It specifies in new clause 8(2) of the proposed amendment that this must be provided no later than one year after the assent of the repeal bill. So it\u2019s really important if we\u2019re going to be taking this step, that we need to be gauging what kinds of impacts this legislation does make not only to the flexibility of our labour market but, hopefully, it will provide some really helpful insights into the impact on productivity. That\u2019s one of the key areas that I\u2019m really interested in understanding, which is: if this legislation does go ahead, what is the impact on New Zealand\u2019s productivity overall?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMy fear is\u2014my real fear is\u2014with this bill if this goes ahead, that if we just have a race to the bottom, if we do just have this race to the bottom, what are the incentives for employers to innovate to provide new ways of doing things? Having a built-in ability to really assess what this is doing to our market flexibility for employment and the productivity generated from New Zealand\u2019s small businesses, that\u2019s an important way to do it, because we\u2019ve already noted that\u2014actually, actually earlier in the House today it was mentioned that about 80 percent of New Zealand\u2019s business is small businesses. It\u2019s more like about 98 percent of our businesses are small businesses, and a lot of those ones are in fierce competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EAs a Government, would you not be thinking that you would want to gear that competition to innovation, to bright ideas, to be able to market ourselves offshore, not to race each other to the bottom\u2014like, who can pay out our workers the least possible amount of wages in order to mark up your profit margins? Would you not want to be creating something new and innovative that would actually be able to drive your profit margins in a different direction, that wasn\u2019t just focused on milking what you can out of the workers? I think if we build this part into analysing what the flexibility is, I think that would be a huge improvement. I think by having that review, by having that review in place, I think that that would really improve and strengthen the current legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to point out that there\u2019s a third part in terms of clause 8 of the new proposed amendment, and it says that the Minister must\u2014\u201Cmust\u201D, which is a strong word, I agree; \u201Cmust\u201D is a big word, but we\u2019ve got it in there\u2014within 60 working days of the day the review is provided, the Minister as required to present it back to the House of Representatives. So it provides this House with another opportunity, just like this one right now, where we can have this discussion about where we are progressing and how we are factoring in\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0c8494faf9e4cf5a67230b8e61108a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0c8494faf9e4cf5a67230b8e61108a1\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I hardly believe my ears. Thank you, Madam Chair, and congratulations on the new role, and congratulations Minister. I want to also acknowledge the Opposition for their support for this important discussion; it\u2019s really, really heartening actually to have that support from the opposite side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I\u2019ve really come to love about Wellington is the great public transport. It\u2019s not perfect, and we do need more cycle lanes, and we do need to get Wellington moving, but public transport is going to play a really vital role in our lives in the years ahead, and it\u2019s vital to our economic and environmental future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EIt was also really nice to hear about Katie Nimon\u2019s family bus business during her maiden speech. I know that we have some common interest in public transport across the Chamber, but buses won\u2019t move without skilled and considerate drivers to drive them\u2014they won\u2019t move. Buses are no good if we don\u2019t have drivers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI live in \u014Ctepoti\u2014Dunedin\u2014and for years bus companies have been engaged in a race to the bottom in terms of wages, with drivers working split shifts and often engaging in second jobs just to put food on the table. Dunedin bus drivers have even had to pee behind bushes and limit their water intake\u2014not like in the Chamber\u2014so that they can keep at work because there are no toilets. So the Minister might argue that repealing fair pay is just tidying things up, but I\u2019d argue that it\u2019s far tidier and healthier to provide good conditions and support bus drivers in Aotearoa rather than encouraging them to head to Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister is: does the Minister acknowledge that bus drivers in Australia, who have benefited from sector-based bargaining, are paid 40 percent more than here in New Zealand, and, if so, how will she bridge the gap without sector-based bargaining here? And does she have any evidence to back how she aims to close the gap? Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00228ee1611868a5447cb992c0ada92523f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ee1611868a5447cb992c0ada92523f8\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to go right back to the question from Rachel Boyack. She has a number of Amendment Papers that she\u2019s brought to the committee\u2014specifically, one she touched on would allow the supermarkets to conclude their fair pay agreement. While I acknowledge she may have brought this in good faith to the committee, we have made a commitment, as a Government, to repeal the fair pay agreement legislation. Allowing the system to continue for one sector would go against the commitment that we brought to this House, but also our commitment to New Zealand voters, who are expecting us to deliver on our commitment from the campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to touch on the question from the Hon Willie Jackson about consultation that\u2019s done with bus drivers, and I\u2019m loving the questions about bus drivers, who are wonderful people. We discussed the repeal of the fair pay agreements with the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions, who represent unions across New Zealand. The bus drivers had an opportunity to comment on the introduction of the fair pay agreements system during the consultation of the original fair pay agreements system. Based on what we heard, there were people who were for, and people who were against, and as a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281cc3a4f620e4f1d9dc2164ca3f5cc10\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, please, Madam Chairperson. My apologies\u2014we can\u2019t hear. Sorry, but we can\u2019t hear you, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7b555fbbf204adcb37fb4d166cfb3cc\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Debbie. I will speak up for you. So talking to the consultation that occurred when the original Fair Pay Agreements Act went through, we heard comments in opposition and comments for. That was quite extensive, and, at the time, the National Party and the ACT Party opposed that bill, and we continue to oppose it now. We went into that election clearly indicating that we would repeal this law, and the voters responded in kind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ETo the questions from the Hon Barbara Edmonds\u2014she talked about things specifically in pages 58 and 59 of the regulatory impact statement from 2021, speaking about an inherent imbalance of bargaining power. I\u2019d just like to remind the member that the Employment Relations Act provides a legal backdrop for all relationships between employees, employers, and unions. She also then touched on what costs we\u2019d received advice on\u2014to do with the repeal. The cover sheet refers to the costs and benefits described in the 2021 regulatory impact statement. So I\u2019d refer the member to the tables on pages 42 to 50 of the 2021 regulatory impact statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ETo the question from Ginny Andersen, specifically taking about the amendments that she would be looking to take about market flexibility and studies, I\u2019m delighted to tell the member, I expect to do my own advice and information on the market, independent from the member, and that does not need to be in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u0022119f2dddfe3944b3a9e35d762e24db84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022119f2dddfe3944b3a9e35d762e24db84\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002223d30e0ea10e4a6bbd7bce945ced336b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223d30e0ea10e4a6bbd7bce945ced336b\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c30737525bab4249a396493584fb3be2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just hold on, to that member. I have been watching the debate for the last hour, so I\u2019m well aware of where we\u2019re up to. Just the presence of a new person in the Chair doesn\u2019t actually change much. So carry on the way you have been. Start the clock again, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223454b9363d8b4587a09a17291a40d972\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much Mr Chair. Well, just to pick up where I was likely to continue previously is that I\u2019ve actually got another proposed amendment. There\u2019s another proposed amendment, and that is a new clause 6, which has been presented to the House. So the new clause 6 that is proposed to amend this bill is that the Royal assent of the bill is contingent on a review by the International Labour Organization (ILO), ensuring that New Zealand is compliant with all international obligations including ILO conventions and free-trade agreements. So, it\u2019s really important that we take into consideration those ILO, which will ensure how we\u2019re complying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOne of the points I\u2019d like to pick up is the fact that one of the things alleged in the first and the second readings is that fair pay agreements would actually result in strikes. I\u2019d like to clarify that point right now that there is no ability with the proposed fair pay agreements that would result in strikes. So that\u2019s actually misinformation and it\u2019s one of the points that the ILO picked up. They actually felt that we should have fair pay agreements that would enable workers to strike. So that\u2019s something that we did not comply with in terms of what those ILO specifications would have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s been a lot of discussion in this Chamber and allegations from those members opposite that the introduction of fair pay agreements would not only introduce the opportunity for more striking but it\u2019s actually been alleged by, in fact, Nicola Willis, when I was on Newstalk ZB with her last week, that it would make all those who were part of a fair pay agreement required to be part of a union, and that\u2019s just not true. That\u2019s not true at all. It is true that unions would negotiate these agreements, but all workers would benefit from the negotiation that takes place, and it doesn\u2019t necessarily mean that the workers who benefit from a fair pay agreement would have to be a member of a union. So I think it\u2019s really important that we specify those differences and it\u2019s really important that we understand the benefits of what fair pay agreements would have actually done for New Zealand in terms of workers\u2019 rights and also by, I guess, rewarding and encouraging and supporting good employers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard many stories from members opposite about what a good employer looks like. We\u2019ve heard from Mark Patterson tonight about\u2014was it 16 years that a manager has worked for him? And we know that there are good employers out there and we want to encourage people like Mark Patterson, who has had a manager working for him for 16 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo how do we do that? We do that by encouraging good wages and good working conditions right across a sector and we don\u2019t do that by having a race to the bottom of who can pay their workers the least and have the most restrictive working conditions possible. That\u2019s not how we encourage market flexibility for our labour force and that\u2019s not how we increase productivity. Because at the heart of the Employment Relations Act is the fact that there is an employee-employer relationship, and that is based on good faith and that is based on having a good working relationship between an employee and an employer. And fair pay agreements seek to extend that over a whole sector so we can work well within our working environments and we can both have mutual benefits out of that\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo what this bill does, what this change does, is it takes away that good faith. It takes away that across a sector, and it means that there will be big differences with bus drivers, with manufacturers, with hospitality workers, with a whole range of different areas where we have poor and bad employers who exploit their workers. We\u2019ve seen this in New Zealand recently with immigration\u2014those who exploit them. Those good employers are dragged down for the fact that poor employers drag their name down. So that\u2019s the loss in this legislation. The loss in this legislation is those good, hard-working employers who have employed people for many years and supported many people off their own shoulders. Those are the ones that are also penalised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EBut we should not forget that the ones that are most penalised in this are those people that clean our floors, that look after our children, that drive our buses, that will be earning less this Christmas, that will afford less on their table, fewer Christmas presents. They will have less money because of the selfishness and the self-interest that this bill inflicts upon New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00220ca730f6c1854cbba8d6fc518d1ad5e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ca730f6c1854cbba8d6fc518d1ad5e1\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I usually allow a range of members to speak before I respond, but I must respond to that statement. Nobody will be worse off this Christmas because there have not been any fair pay agreements finalised. Nobody will be having lower wages because of the repeal of this Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e57edb9713b548d48d167be4276dc2b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e57edb9713b548d48d167be4276dc2b8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I just remind members, particularly those on my left, that a presentation at this stage would generally end with a question for the Minister in the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c23e4ed3794a4d23a4e290d156c6f0bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c23e4ed3794a4d23a4e290d156c6f0bc\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E I don\u2019t want to make this debate about whether we are opposed to employers, because sometimes the value is that we should be about promoting and encouraging good employers to be great employers. We should also be making sure employees can be safe employees, and it is absolutely true what we\u2019ve heard over here. We all know some really great employers; great employers which I\u2019ve been part of since I was 18 years old, being self-employed. Our small to medium sized businesses are really critical to our economy, and I\u2019m glad that I belong to iwi and to entities that are enjoying investing and being part of these types of businesses. However, unfortunately, that is not always the case. Some of this legislation is being drafted and created for the vulnerable, and that is really what we\u2019re answering about and challenging about: our different views of where we see we belong in looking after the most vulnerable. So I do want to be really clear on what it is that we\u2019re asking for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI understand the debate and, actually, to be fair, I understand the Minister\u2019s approach and what it is that she\u2019s wanting to focus on. But I guess what we also need to remind ourselves of is that the protection of the vulnerable has come because of the work, the hard work, of the unions. What we saw today and what we\u2019ve heard in a really short amount of time is that multiple unions agree on what it is that we\u2019re looking at today. There is limited evidence that we\u2019ve seen from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. They have told us that they were restrained or constrained because of time lines. They were constrained by the fact that there\u2019s a Government in with a very\u2014depending on where you sit\u2014progressive or aggressive 100-day plan and this urgency kaupapa that we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ENew clause 8 in our amendment is actually about a repeal\u2014to make sure that it is subject to a review. Now, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s asking for too much. What we\u2019re simply saying to the Minister is that, look, let\u2019s assume that it doesn\u2019t go to plan and that we have a review undertaken in three years to investigate how the terms and conditions, particularly for those who are disproportionately affected\u2014and we\u2019ve all heard that; that\u2019s not us making it up, those are facts. We have a disproportionate group of our employees, our workers who are often our wh\u0101nau, Pasifika, M\u0101ori, w\u0101hine who are affected. We see it often in the sectors across early childhood education, the bus industry, the security industry, cleaning, supermarkets, and hospitality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re asking is that there is a decency applied to this if it doesn\u2019t go the way\u2014and this 100-day plan\u2014that the Government wants, and we have a pou, we have a measurement, we have a marker to say, \u201CIs this going the way we want and how else can we ensure the terms and conditions of those who are disproportionately affected are going to be monitored?\u201D If we get to a point and we say, actually, this hasn\u2019t going the way we thought it was, it\u2019s working really well in this area for those of us who have been and are business owners who are employers but in fact it\u2019s made the gap worse for those who we didn\u2019t want to see disproportionately worse through this period. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I do want to ask the Minister again is what is the plan if it doesn\u2019t work? Can we surely put aside the differences that we have fundamentally or philosophically tonight and look at why the Minister wouldn\u2019t support our amendment to ensure that there is a review, that we continue to be proud to grow, as I said, good employers to be great employers; good employees, employees to be able to be looked after; and the most vulnerable are not targeted, because at times that\u2019s how it\u2019s coming across. Kia ora r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u002273879c32eacb4ead8784146a17ed878d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273879c32eacb4ead8784146a17ed878d\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Chair. I wanted to respond directly to the question from Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. Talking about her Amendment Paper\u2014she\u2019s requiring a review of the repeal after three years, and for that review to consider the impacts of that repeal on the specific sectors within the fair pay system that were initiated. It just would not make sense in practice for that review because there have not been any fair pay agreements finalised. There is nothing to compare the impact of that review to. So the whole concept of the Amendment Paper does not work in practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003ETo the question of Ginny Andersen asking for comment about Nicola Willis\u2019s comments\u2014I haven\u2019t heard those comments directly\u2014specifying that workers needed to belong to a union for the fair pay agreement. The fair pay agreement system does actually specify that the only entities who could represent employees in bargaining are entities, and not employees themselves, and so in effect, no, the person doesn\u2019t have to join a union, but they can only be represented by a union in that bargaining process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWhere there was a bit of discussion about international obligations, the fair pay agreement system does engage our international obligations relating to strikes, freedom of association, and voluntary collective bargaining. But repealing the fair pay agreement system will actually avoid us engaging our international obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u0022720daedee71c403096c6e89dd6af591b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022720daedee71c403096c6e89dd6af591b\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022647a3f2cedfb4d78985ee9900089127b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022647a3f2cedfb4d78985ee9900089127b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that debate on this question be now put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b9164ba9bb24e4895aac4bec60898cf\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002277df9961a8fa431180bc8844ad42b02a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277df9961a8fa431180bc8844ad42b02a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: It won\u2019t be in relation to my decision to put this question. I\u2019ll take a point of order on anything else. Right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022979a1a88959c43f4bf0fb9b6d5437788\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002216d1c3ca17fd4796bfb95dba40642cec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216d1c3ca17fd4796bfb95dba40642cec\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, before we come to voting, I\u2019ll inform the committee that we\u2019ve received a number of tabled amendments on this part of the bill. Some are in order and will be voted on. A number of amendments would make repeal of the Fair Pay Agreements Act contingent on an indeterminate event\u2014these are out of order. Others have been ruled out as contrary to the bill\u2019s objects and principles. I remind members that the scope of a bill to repeal an Act is quite narrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5 to exempt the early childhood education industry fair pay agreement be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228680c3a1f86945969b35c04d17d07b97\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a91d2e2d3f0547f391c20f8c52e1e449\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a91d2e2d3f0547f391c20f8c52e1e449\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Rachel Boyack\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5 to exempt the grocery supermarket industry fair pay agreement be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a0f7de8cbfda40d2b05f6baf4fc16523\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022de931dabf3c4412a8b0da2e85f9054da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de931dabf3c4412a8b0da2e85f9054da\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5 to exempt the security officers and guards industry fair pay agreement be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022312230d7326747479fea7c469496dcf9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b92097826b9a437983786a981afab05a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b92097826b9a437983786a981afab05a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5 to exempt the bus drivers\u2019, coach drivers\u2019, and cleaners\u2019 fair pay agreement be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002257efe0f7d23a4cfe9705ee61755651fc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224ebf71bb0ba74ec8ab9bd55351f5d6dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ebf71bb0ba74ec8ab9bd55351f5d6dd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Helen White\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5 to exempt the hospitality industry fair pay agreement be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fcc3fb318847493b96642c663ae98023\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022723d2d9caad649268cf432a13445617a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022723d2d9caad649268cf432a13445617a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to clause 5 to exempt the commercial cleaners\u2019 fair pay agreement be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e565eb33c29b4b2d9e188c62b9d0e1de\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228c9bc89356dd46d59dd9c029aee8be01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c9bc89356dd46d59dd9c029aee8be01\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5 to retain bargaining support services be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002213df090a99654f63bf52ef7df0b71304\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002242a265cfc31945cdb08a9f40d113fc76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242a265cfc31945cdb08a9f40d113fc76\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Rachel Boyack\u2019s remaining tabled amendments to clause 5 are out of order as inconsistent with the principles and objects of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s remaining tabled amendments to clause 5 are out of order as inconsistent with the principles and objects of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Phil Twyford\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5 to require fair pay agreements on a case by case basis if the Minister is satisfied be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c2ab23dbb9474193bfa998fca30019f0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228b6e8a13180f4958bbdffe21a784cb06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b6e8a13180f4958bbdffe21a784cb06\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Phil Twyford\u2019s tabled amendment to insert clause 5(b) regarding union access to workplaces is out of order as outside the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Phil Twyford\u2019s tabled amendment to insert clause 5(b) regarding actions in progress relating to fair pay agreements is out of order as inconsistent with the principles and objects of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Phil Twyford\u2019s tabled amendment to insert clause 5(b) regarding consultation is out of order as relying on an indeterminate event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to insert clause 5(b) to allow fair pay agreements on a case by case basis be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002271a0a7665bcd4c059b1be07f3f007731\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b612e9237cd6434da170e500caea8bd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b612e9237cd6434da170e500caea8bd8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to insert clause 5(b) to replace \u201CFPA Act\u201D with \u201CMinimum Pay and Minimum Standards Act\u201D is out of order as contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 5 to make repeal contingent on minimum wage matching CPI is out of order as relying on an indeterminate event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to insert clause 5(b) to retain paid union meetings be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002212af58d335fa4ed797d8e1ca2ea97e29\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022751670385a1f41eca848acff3b2c86c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022751670385a1f41eca848acff3b2c86c1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to insert new clause 5A to continue FPAs in areas where M\u0101ori, Pasifika, young workers, disabled workers, and women will be disproportionately impacted is out of order as contrary to the objects and principles of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u2019 tabled amendment to insert new clause 5A prevent discrimination against workers involved in fair pay agreement processes is out of order as outside the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Hon Ginny Andersen\u2019s tabled amendment to insert new clause 5A to make Royal assent contingent on ILO review is out of order as relying on an indeterminate event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHelen White\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 7 to make repeals subject to a right for employees to raise a personal grievance in relation to fair pay agreement processes is out of order as relying on an indeterminate event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to insert new clause 8 regarding a requirement for the Minister to seek advice on improving worker terms and conditions be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a84a064ff08e4675a7855b9dc0d64bd3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022668d25e1e2894f10881bddb0ccf7b50e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022668d25e1e2894f10881bddb0ccf7b50e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Ginny Andersen\u2019s, Helen White\u2019s, and Arena Williams\u2019 tabled amendments to insert new clause 8 to make the repeal subject to a review on worker terms and conditions is out of order as relying on an indeterminate event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Helen White\u2019s tabled amendment to insert new clause 8 to require bargaining sides to continue to discuss industry issues be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022566708d0f43e44ff80af7aa05cadb435\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022237a094308b74a9a973d86eace98c33e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022237a094308b74a9a973d86eace98c33e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Ginny Andersen\u2019s tabled amendment to insert new clause 8 to require a ministerial report on market flexibility be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002263ae1eb570404eb28c6090f3aba74404\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fa9b1faf579e4b188eed500b448a502a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022343d949f9819409a933c60a3a3275de7\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002256cd10bd84e841e081bd4a0ed764f1c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256cd10bd84e841e081bd4a0ed764f1c6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come to Schedule 1, where there will be no debate. The question is that Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s amendments to Schedule 1 set out on Amendment Paper 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022531b60d110b543fba1acb2f578154b37\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022318027d7722340d3b93ada013dedf2e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022318027d7722340d3b93ada013dedf2e2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Debbie Ngarewa-Packer\u2019s amendments to Schedule 1 set out on Amendment Paper 3 are out of order as being inconsistent with the principles and objects of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226ec5cdeb703841058ab94f396c8d2910\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2bf814eb2ed41b8a8be7e9ac37a1775\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226b8f45cd2cce4525acbb1c546d977430\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b8f45cd2cce4525acbb1c546d977430\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We come to Schedule 2\u2014again, no debate. The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2, Part 1, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fd36cc8bda2e4fa4b656aea9bcaae971\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227127251791e54d8baaa142ff9cbbeb67\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0d3b7f7f14b496ca99776ed1db7149f\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220b6b51cbce5c43ce878199b0ce40381a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b6b51cbce5c43ce878199b0ce40381a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to clauses 1 and 2. This is the debate on the title and commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00221d6d9be2f3b4452a9fe06cc9814ac090\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d6d9be2f3b4452a9fe06cc9814ac090\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson): \u003C/span\u003EThank you, Mr Chair, for the opportunity to take a call on the title and commencement clauses. I do have two amendments to speak to tonight. The first is on the title clause, and I will speak to that amendment, which is to replace \u201CFair Pay Agreement Act Repeal Act 2023\u201D with \u201CWorker Protections Clawback Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Act 2023\u201D. This is a clawback bill. This bill, to repeal the ground-breaking fair pay agreement legislation in New Zealand, is a clawback for workers, and I disagree wholeheartedly with the Minister\u2019s statement earlier that workers will not be worse off. We have from multiple submissions, from evidence overseas\u2014and I\u2019m just noting that this Government has said it will be evidence based\u2014and from the full impact statement that we saw when the first piece of legislation came through this House that workers will be better off with the protection of a fair pay agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ELet me speak to that in terms of some of the processes that actually apply in order to do that. Through a fair pay agreement, we have initiation from one of the bargaining parties\u2014it would usually be the union to make that initiation\u2014following which we agree terms and conditions through a bargaining process. There is a whole series of steps that occur prior to that in order to identify the coverage\u2014to identify particular occupations that are covered. That work is undertaken, and then, finally, there is bargaining between the parties\u2014those who represent the workers and those who represent the employers. That bargaining occurs with support from Government officials as needed. This then leads to\u2014hopefully; if things have gone well\u2014an agreement between the parties. It then goes out to be ratified by both sets of parties to the agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIf it doesn\u2019t result in a fair pay agreement one of the components of the fair pay agreement law is that it does ultimately have the opportunity to be fixed. Fixing an agreement already exists in employment law\u2014so collective agreements can be fixed. Having been through that process myself I know there\u2019s a very long-winded process that requires facilitated bargaining, a whole lot of tests to occur, in order for an agreement to be fixed, and I\u2019ve seen that take years and years and years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWhat is so good about this legislation that the Labour Government was so very, very proud to put in place to protect vulnerable, low-paid, and middle-income earners in New Zealand is that it would allow that fixing process to happen much faster than what we currently have in law. For example, one of the agreements that I have been working on was with a supermarket in Nelson and it has taken eight years to get a collective agreement in place. It was ultimately going to lead to the point where there would need to be a case made\u2014an expensive case made\u2014to have that agreement fixed after years and years of delaying tactics by the employer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo this is a clawback bill. It takes away rights of workers. It takes away the opportunity for workers to bargain properly for sector-based agreements that set a minimum entitlement for wages and conditions in that sector. There are multiple examples that we can point to internationally that have sector-based bargaining. The closest one is Australia. Those on that side of the Chamber\u2014and in fact many New Zealanders\u2014love to make a lot of noise, a lot of statements, around the fact that if you go across the Ditch to Australia, people will earn more money. The reason for that is that they have sector-based bargaining. It\u2019s called enterprise bargaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261aad000660549e29478f654a89777e2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s not true. They\u2019ve got a stronger economy\u2014they\u2019ve got mining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266fbfa0286a7486ebe54e39ec5d801a3\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, they don\u2019t like that. Apparently, it\u2019s only to do with productivity. Well, it\u2019s actually both of those things, because there\u2019s a connection between higher wages and productivity. Again, having studied employment relations at university, I like to look at the evidence. Coming back to the clause, Mr Chair, this is a clawback bill, because it will take away the opportunity for workers to get decent wages and conditions in those sectors\u2014sectors that are overrepresented by women, by M\u0101ori and Pasifika, and young workers. So my question to the Minister is: will she support a proper title for this bill that properly reflects what the Government is doing here, which is a clawback. Will she admit that what this bill is doing is clawing back the rights and opportunities for working people in this country who are doing it tough. This Government has made many, many statements about wanting to address the cost of living. Well, this is the opportunity to address the cost of living. The biggest issue that we have in New Zealand in terms of the cost of living is inequality, and it has lasted for decades. It is inequality that has gone back into the 1990s. That is why this is a clawback bill and why it is so important that the bill\u2019s title properly reflects what the legislation is actually doing. From my perspective, this is clawing back those opportunities for workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to talk now about the other amendment I\u2019m putting forward, which is to the commencement date. My amendment to clause 2 will replace \u201Con the day after Royal assent\u201D with \u201Cthree years and one day after Royal assent\u201D. The reason for this is that I believe that the other side of the committee needs to see how this will operate in practice and understand it properly before they actually decide that the legislation needs to be repealed. They haven\u2019t had the evidence of it operating in practice and seeing the benefit it can make to workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo giving the legislation three years to breathe, three years to play its part in terms of delivering for workers means we would have three years to make sure that we introduce an agreement for supermarket workers. We would have three years to ensure that we could bring in a fair pay agreement for bus drivers. We would have three years to make sure that we could bring in a fair pay agreement for cleaners. We would have three years to make sure that we could bring in a fair pay agreement for early childhood workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAgain, I spent time on Friday with early childhood workers who have been working through multiple processes. They\u2019ve been working through pay parity with other teachers. They\u2019ve been working on pay equity claims to ensure that their female dominated workforce is properly paid. Now they have a claim for a fair pay agreement, and I think we need to give this legislation three years, which is why I have put forward this amendment to replace \u201Cthe day after Royal assent\u201D with \u201Cthree years and one day after Royal assent.\u201D It would give the opportunity for early childhood teachers to be able to properly negotiate a fair pay agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAnd I want to pay particular credit to these workers because they look after our youngest tamariki, and they have struggled to attract people into the industry. For so many years we\u2019ve said in our society that if you\u2019re a primary school teacher or a secondary school teacher, your value is greater than those who work in early childhood education. But we know that those first thousand days leading into someone going to primary school are critical for a small child, and to have quality education is critical for those young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis is why I want to see this Government actually listen to the voice of workers, which they haven\u2019t done by operating this legislation through an urgency process, and listen to those workers around what they need to ensure they can continue to attract people into the early childhood sector. I predict that if this legislation passes and we don\u2019t allow the original legislation to have three years to operate fully so that perhaps we can convince them across the House, through some evidence\u2014and a little bit of evidence might get them to change their minds if they\u2019re going to be an evidence-based Government. The point of evidence is that you might have a position and you might see the evidence and you might just change your mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI think that three years would give the other side of the House the opportunity to understand that evidence and to see the benefit of a fair pay agreement for early childhood workers so that they could attract more teachers to deliver quality education into that sector. Three years would give the opportunity to have a fair pay agreement for hospitality workers, who, as I think all of us can understand, are often some of the lowest paid and vulnerable workers. It would give, as I\u2019ve already mentioned and as has been well spoken about tonight, the opportunity for us to have a proper fair pay agreement for supermarket workers and bus drivers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister is: will she support my amendment tonight? Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00229603e860e9074521b60fa59b7d258fe6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229603e860e9074521b60fa59b7d258fe6\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the member\u2019s question, no. The policy intent is quite correctly captured by the title of the bill. It\u2019s pretty plain and simple and we have a coalition commitment to repeal the fair pay agreements by Christmas, which is what we intend to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022a57fe7e1183747aa80b79e94e05d2ffb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a57fe7e1183747aa80b79e94e05d2ffb\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I would like to also support the amendments of my colleague Rachel Boyack, and, also, I have an amendment in my own name in relation to this part. My amendment really goes to the heart, I think, of the Government\u2019s justification for this bill, which is, essentially, that we\u2019ve had an election and the Government wants to implement their commitments from during the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI think that that\u2019s an interesting proposal. I would also say that another option could be\u2014if, truly, there is generally a feeling within New Zealand that this particular piece of legislation must be introduced\u2014to adopt my amendment to the title and commencement clauses, new clause 2. My amendment says that this Act comes into force the day after Royal assent following a public referendum in which 50 percent plus one\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d2d2a9eee3d43ffbc76b3e2c7a99d37\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to pay for it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c39582ddbd24fd78f709c9910ffdd83\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of New Zealand public votes in favour of the wording of this repeal bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d15f0fa0f3d444d7bc7cbf187fa128c9\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Waste some more money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c875ae1c9ab5494183583b8f421c8560\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: And it\u2019s interesting that people on the other side are bringing up who\u2019s going to pay for it, because I think it\u2019s quite clear who is going to pay for the repeal of this bill, and it\u2019s the vulnerable workers in New Zealand. So that is my amendment, and I seek the Minister\u2019s comment and support for that amendment to truly guarantee and prove that there is a mandate for introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI would also support my colleague Rachel Boyack\u2019s amendment to the commencement clause, clause 2, and the reason for that is: often in New Zealand, we introduce legislation which takes time in order for the benefits of it to be obvious to people. It\u2019s regretful in this situation that we haven\u2019t had the opportunity to see a fair pay agreement in place. We think, on our side of the House, that there\u2019s a lot of evidence that they would be very successful, and I, in my next contribution, will speak to some of the elements that were raised in the part that we voted on in the bill. I think that there are actually some benefits to employers and employees working together and looking towards a different way of working in New Zealand. We can look at the wages that we have now and the productivity we have and we can see that the status quo is not working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIn terms of the title of the bill, I and many of us on this side of the House are fundamentally opposed to this repeal bill and of its name\u2014opposed to what that title suggests. We do not consider that the Fair Pay Agreements Act should be repealed, for the arguments that we\u2019ve raised in previous hearings only today, and also in the arguments that we\u2019ve raised in the committee of the whole House as well. So I would encourage the Minister to respond to that. I also wanted to support my colleague Rachel Boyack\u2019s amendment to the change of the title, which I believe is more correct in the nature of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI did have a technical question, and it may be that this is not the part for it, but I couldn\u2019t find the correct section of the bill as to where it\u2019s expressed, so if you would indulge me until I can get an answer for that, please. It could be that it is in the commencement and the title section. The explanatory note on the repeal bill states that the one area that won\u2019t be repealed is the Employment Court 2000 fair pay agreement amendment regulations in relation to \u201Cthe technical amendment to express the figures for [the] Employment Court fees in [a] GST-exclusive form\u201D. I couldn\u2019t locate, in the section that I expected to find that in\u2014and that may be my error\u2014exactly where that was, and I did look through the bill a number of times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI wonder if the Minister could point me to exactly where those retained amendments are. I can see it clearly in that section; I also saw it in the cover note, so I do know it\u2019s obviously the intention to retain these particular regulations, which I don\u2019t think are particularly controversial. But I wasn\u2019t able to speak to that in other parts of the bill. That could be my error that I haven\u2019t been able to see where that was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ESo those were the main things that I wanted to ask the Minister: does she agree with the amendments that myself and my colleague have put forward in relation to clarifying that there is a mandate to repeal this legislation, and could she point me to the place in the legislation where those GST-exclusive amendments are included.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002265ae7bb98f2d483c93b0c42fac4aa05e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265ae7bb98f2d483c93b0c42fac4aa05e\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just in regard to the title, I appreciate the amendments put by the Labour Party around the change of name. I would probably propose something around \u201CVibes-based Unfair Pay\u201D. But, in relationship to the commencement, reflecting on some of the previous contributions from the Minister, I hear that she has been saying that this is part of the coalition agreement and that the intent is to pass it before Christmas. Throughout the debate there also has been a lack of ability to produce evidence as to why this must be repealed; yet there\u2019s a sense of urgency around the commencement\u2014basically, this Act coming into force on the day after the Royal assent. I just wondered if, at any point, the Minister had considered delaying the introduction of the bill to actually then do some evidence gathering. Or I guess I want to test whether Brooke van Velden, candidate for T\u0101maki, had presented or researched any evidence during the campaign trail. Because, if there was no exercise in evidence, documentation gathering, consultation with workers\u2014I guess, whether the people who campaigned did any of that exercise and whether she as Minister is leaning into that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EOtherwise, what I\u2019m reading here is a rush to put in place this repeal without having any ability to produce any evidence in relationship to the impact that it will have, other than the limited stuff that we have had from the leaked documents that have come out. So, once again, I\u2019m just checking if there is going to be any intent at all from the Minister to produce evidence on how this will benefit the economy. She has otherwise stated, predominantly, the words \u201CI believe\u201D over and over and over and over\u2014not \u201CI know\u201D or \u201Cas the evidence points out\u201D or \u201Cevidence shows\u201D. It\u2019s \u201CI believe\u201D. And I think the hundreds of thousands of workers impacted by this bill, who won\u2019t have the opportunity to then see those fair pay agreements come to fruition, deserve more than a Minister telling them \u201CI believe\u201D. They deserve a Minister who can back a piece of legislation with evidence, with solid arguments, and so this is why I\u2019m testing whether she would be open to delaying the commencement of the bill to allow for her arguments to be backed up by actual solid figures and facts rather than just vibes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00220b8230bed76246b6abe1377944818648\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b8230bed76246b6abe1377944818648\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just wanted to support the last speaker but also my friend Rachel Boyack\u2019s amendment which was to delay the bill coming into fruition. I think the point needs expanding a little bit because what we have in this situation is very, very little evidence, a lot of hunch about what will happen next. And while the Minister might be sceptical, this is our perfect opportunity to do an evidence-gathering exercise. If we had three years of watching this and the Minister watching this and being the guardian of it, then that would play out in that time. You have industries that have already opted for this option. So we have identified industries that have come forward and said that there\u2019s appetite for this solution. They are halfway through bargaining, and it would be amazing if those industries could go through a process that a lot of work\u2019s gone into getting going. In three years\u2019 time, if it\u2019s a failed experiment as you suspect it will be, you will see, and you\u2019ll be able to prove that on the basis of evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EBut if, in fact, it turns out that it makes a big difference to the kinds of workers who are engaged at the present time, if bus drivers are on better money, if they are safer, if they in fact can get their toilet breaks, if our younger workers and our women are in situations that are more flexible and work for them, if our disabled workers are better off, then you\u2019ll know that too. Because you\u2019re right, this is a tailored situation that has been created. The work that has been done has been not exactly like Australia, or not exactly like anywhere, and wouldn\u2019t it be really such a sad thing to throw all that away when, if we just did move your repeal out for three years and one day, we\u2019d have time to find out whether it worked or not, and what worked and what didn\u2019t and improve on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIn fact, this is something we should be doing much more with legislation\u2014actually allowing ourselves to test things and see if they work and not being beholden to dogged ideology. That\u2019s actually a big deal, because what I have heard from the Minister is that the reason this has to go ahead is because a commitment has been made, and there is a belief in what has been an ideological position. We\u2019re basically back to trickle-down economics. We\u2019re back to \u201Ceventually these workers will be better off\u201D. Well, my experience is they are not better off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EJust one example of this: I\u2019ll go back to the bus drivers because I know that situation very well. My Green colleague talked about the bus drivers having to pee behind a tree\u2014right, that\u2019s real. That happened. I actually had to prepare a strike notice for the bus drivers in Auckland, and do you know what the strike notice threatened to do? The strike action was taking the toilet breaks. That\u2019s what the strike action said. They were going to take the toilet breaks. And do you know what the result of that was, Minister? The company locked out the bus drivers. At that time they were on $17 an hour. They had split shifts where that meant that they were in the Auckland depot. So they came in the morning, and they had come before the buses were starting, so they had to be there and they had to do that work. If we gave these bus drivers three years of this regime, we would see what happened next. Together with the work that\u2019s been done on the Public Transport Operating Model and changing it to a sustainable transport model\u2014together with those things, we ended up with bus drivers on good money in this country, good terms and conditions, safer work. We ended up with a sustainable situation for our bus drivers and imagine the impact if we just give them that time and we delay this for three years and one day. Imagine the impact that it could have on things like the children. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022e647d23973b64b279cbe6ece089c73d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e647d23973b64b279cbe6ece089c73d0\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d just like to make the point that the last three contributions have little to do with the title and commencement of this bill. Helen White, I don\u2019t think I heard anything there about the title and commencement of the bill. To the member Ricardo Mene\u0301ndez March, quite similarly: nothing to do with the title and commencement of the bill. Camilla Belich, there was a question about GST changes with the employment courts\u2014once again, not relevant to this particular section. However, you might wish to note that while it\u2019s not in the bill specifically in this section, we are retaining the provision. So we are reversing all other changes but retaining this one, so it\u2019s not in the bill. So being silent on it, it\u2019s retaining the fact that changes to the forms are GST exclusive, so it\u2019s not in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EBut to the point that was actually about this section, I heard a lot about delay, but this is not a Government that delays; this is a Government of action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u00226e4e29543900464eb3c4c258da80aede\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e4e29543900464eb3c4c258da80aede\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and congratulations on your appointment to the role. I appreciate being able to speak on the name of this bill. It seems to me that the most appropriate name would be the \u201CPoor Pay Promise Bill\u201D, because it is indeed the fulfilment of a commitment to industry that they will be allowed to continue to exploit workers, continue to not guarantee basic wages\u2014livable wages\u2014and fair pay. The name of the Fair Pay Agreements Act speaks for itself\u2014the name of the legislation that you are repealing\u2014and you\u2019re making it, through this repeal, the poor pay promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI want to speak specifically to the impact on our disabled community. We want our disabled community to live dignified, rich, and satisfying lives. What we know is that currently, under the status quo, they do not. The thing that the fair pay agreement would have done is it would have improved conditions for all workers, including our disabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EOne piece of evidence that was not presented in the case made for this repeal is how does the supposed flexible labour market, which I would say is a synonym for the flexibility of employers to exploit workers\u2014how did you seek evidence on the impact on disabled workers, who currently have three times the unemployment rate of non-disabled workers and an average median income of $255 less per week than non-disabled workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIt is the poor pay promise to all workers\u2014a promise, a commitment to those in industry and business who are willing to exploit for their profits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e816f7c6bb425f9a67c0721ede42ef\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about the title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209cc3d78a34d47f6a62614a4e0341733\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: The \u201CPoor Pay Promise Bill\u201D\u2014that is the title. It is a commitment to industry who wish to exploit, and we will oppose it. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022358cfe37f83a4ac4ad94723274906fea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022358cfe37f83a4ac4ad94723274906fea\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair; I appreciate that. I\u2019ve actually only had the one opportunity to speak to Part 2, so I\u2019m very pleased to have the opportunity to speak to the title and commencement. I would like to know if the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety would consider a change to the name of the bill to \u201CBack to the Status Quo\u201D, because that is, essentially, what it does. It is not a critique of the content of the bill, for I know that one cannot do that when proposing an alternative name; that would be a breach. But this is a fair description regardless of how one looks at it, whether you look at it from the arguments of the Government or, indeed, from the Opposition, because the Act that this bill seeks to repeal brought in a new provision by which workers can seek to improve conditions and improve wages. By repealing that\u2014what this bill proposes\u2014we go back to what things were before the Fair Pay Agreements Act came in. So \u201CBack to the Status Quo\u201D, I feel, is a fair alternative name, and I would be interested if the Minister would consider that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EBefore fair pay agreements came in, people were left to themselves, on the whole, to negotiate for improved wages and improved conditions. Now, if we consider where we were before fair pay agreements came in in comparison to Australia, who had the equivalent of fair pay agreements, their wages and their conditions, over a period of roughly 30 years, improved considerably; New Zealand\u2019s did not. In this, in repealing fair pay agreements, we\u2019re going back to that situation, which was, before they came in, the status quo, and that is why I\u2019m proposing that it be called \u201CBack to the Status Quo\u201D. It is fair, I think. It is fair from our perspective, because it\u2019s very clear tonight that we\u2019ve been critical of this approach, because we don\u2019t believe that the situation before fair pay agreements came in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260d74b2165aa4f90ade3ca654c4fd208\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I am waiting for the member to come back to the title and commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6fe8121303f4b8dbc0f1c38670829d9\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: The title and commencement\u2014I\u2019ve mentioned my proposed title on three occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fcb9b43bbca4bfc93088ac5d9bc7c3d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: You have; I\u2019m waiting for you to come back to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b94c5319326943558bdec7158047e419\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I\u2019m proposing that the title of this be \u201CBack to the Status Quo\u201D, which is my proposed amendment to the title of the bill, Madam Chair, and one which I would like to hear from the Minister on as to, if she doesn\u2019t support it, why not? And I was explaining that from our perspective, this goes back to how it was, and from the Government\u2019s perspective this goes back to how it was, before fair pay agreements came in. I don\u2019t propose this to criticise; I propose this as a fair reflection of what this bill, in proposing to repeal fair pay agreements, is doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022375a29c163b04cbd869391dbce9f1e6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022375a29c163b04cbd869391dbce9f1e6b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Can I just say, before we take another call: in Speakers\u2019 ruling 127/3, \u201Cdebating the preliminary causes at the end, members should have some latitude to summarise\u201D. Now, I\u2019m not going to take too much leeway. I want it to relate to title and commencement, but there is an opportunity to summarise, and I\u2019m going to be watching very closely. The reason we\u2019re letting it move a little bit broader in terms of timing is around the fact that there was no select committee. So, with that, Arena Williams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022631b2fb0f6204ff69a04b6c76bd6c927\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022631b2fb0f6204ff69a04b6c76bd6c927\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you so much for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. This is a brand new point, and if you will allow me, this will be a short call because I hope that the Minister can give me an indication of what her thinking is. Then, perhaps, I can propose to her some amendments which may help the situation that the House finds itself in now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo the particular part that I\u2019m talking to is clause 2, the \u201CCommencement\u201D in the new bill, which is the Act \u201C[coming] into force on the day after Royal assent.\u201D This is not a point about the commencement date, which my colleague Rachel Boyack has raised; it\u2019s a point about the Royal assent itself. Those two things are different: the commencement and the place of the Royal assent in our constitutional framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo the questions that I have for the Minister, which I will flag first up so she can consider them: when will the Royal assent be sought? How many proceedings are under way that the Royal assent will cut across? How have participants to the proceedings been notified that the Royal assent will extinguish their proceedings and any legal rights that ensue from those proceedings? What natural justice issues does the Minister anticipate, given the Royal assent will cut across those proceedings? And how will parties be compensated for costs of the proceedings under way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ENow, let me take the House through how we end up in this situation that we\u2019re in now with the proposal to grant this bill Royal assent. Royal assent is a recognition by the Governor-General, as the representative of the Queen, that a bill has come into effect and that it has gone through the processes of this House to give it the effect of law. So the situation that we find ourselves in is that we have a bill here which hasn\u2019t been through the ordinary processes through the House, through a select committee\u2014and we acknowledge on this side of the House that there will be certain situations where the Government has a prerogative to take things through urgency; that\u2019s not at issue here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhat the issue is is that because we haven\u2019t been through the ordinary public process, we haven\u2019t had the benefit of the regulatory impact analysis, and we haven\u2019t had the benefit of time that would usually be given to the sort of legislation where a Government might consider cutting across proceedings that are under way currently, parties to those proceedings haven\u2019t had time to adjust and to change their approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo what we see here is that the fair pay agreements were a new piece of law enacted in 2021 that allowed parties to come to the table to renegotiate longstanding issues which had been in court before or they were party to mediations that were already under way. They then came into a new process set out by that Act in good faith, knowing that they would have to give up their court proceedings; knowing that they would have to give up their mediated processes, but entering into a new format in good faith and working with the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment that was facilitating the process through mediated proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo here\u2019s the scene: we have a group of, say, cleaners, who are represented by their union E T\u016B, that give up their other proceedings in the court to come along to this new set of proceedings. And they are investing in this because they think it\u2019s a process that they should be participating in because that was the Government\u2019s intention at the time. They are paying lawyers, they are paying representatives, they are paying mediators. At the same time, we have a number of commercial firms who employ these 35,000 cleaners around New Zealand, who have also engaged their own representatives and have come to the table in good faith to bargain around a floor for conditions, be it pay or\u2014in the case of cleaners\u2014training. Extra training in the industry for cleaners was a particularly important part of their claim. That was something that also came out of their original proceedings and into the new proceedings that fair pay agreements (FPAs) allowed them to take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo we now have this situation where they are, in this example, parties that have come to the table: on one side, cleaners represented by their union, over 1,000 of them, to enter into this process; and then multiple commercial parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy questions to the Minister are around whether those commercial parties have been given notice of this so that they may prepare themselves for an extinguishment of the process which is going on currently, and the potential of further action being taken by those cleaners\u2019 representatives in another judicial body.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBecause we acknowledge, also, that with FPAs not being able to be used by these commercial parties, that we then have much more costly proceedings that will need to be re-entered into in some of these cases. Some of these cases go back 20 years. They have been litigated and relitigated on things like conditions, but particularly training because this relates to the training that cleaners might need when they are alone and dealing with chemicals. They also relate to health and safety issues\u2014and there are a number of health and safety proceedings also on foot which this will impact. So my questions to the Minister\u2014Madam Chair, may I have more time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022 data-id=\u00227bde2c4a3a3241429591f5f69bec8115\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bde2c4a3a3241429591f5f69bec8115\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022c69e77197eb040b0a2c8763906df0fc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c69e77197eb040b0a2c8763906df0fc3\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I wanted to take the opportunity to answer the member\u2019s question. My understanding is that Royal assent will happen as it does for all other bills that leave this House in the normal process, but I also want to make it very clear that my purpose in bringing this bill to the House is for all bargaining processes to stop and cease, and that the law itself ceases and the bargaining process thereunder ceases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3cad8fbdecc4f0698553a80a1e2d861\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3cad8fbdecc4f0698553a80a1e2d861\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take a call. It\u2019s the first opportunity that I\u2019ve had to take a call since the election and I want to acknowledge you on your elevation to the role of Deputy Speaker. I know that you are someone who is fair handed. I\u2019ve had the pleasure of working alongside you in my first term with the Governance and Administration Committee\u2014a very good committee\u2014and I know that you will do an excellent job and so I congratulate you on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI do want to just reflect on the response that the Minister has just given around her expectation that bargaining and the like would stop and cease. I think it is premature of the Minister to outline that expectation right here, right now, when in fact the bill has not been given Royal assent, and I think it is an important point and distinction to make. I\u2019m delighted that my colleague Arena Williams has touched on some of the legal ramifications and matters that are currently before the committee when considering this bill. I do think that she has touched on a really important point that the Minister has still failed to respond to, I think, adequately, and that is around proceedings that are currently in place. Compensation\u2014that also is a question that may currently be in place or actually may not yet be finalised. I think that this is a very interesting and important point around the rights\u2014not just the rights but the legal rights that those who are currently engaged in those proceedings actually don\u2019t currently have but continue to have, and will have, if at some future point this bill does receive Royal assent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENot just that but the fact that Royal assent, at some stage of this bill, will be given\u2014it\u2019s interesting, I reflect on my time just recently at Government House, where, often, Royal assent is given, and that was for the swearing in or the confirmation of the Speaker. But, of course, some who might be sitting at home listening to this at this late hour might think \u201CWell, why have we suddenly gone from introduction of a bill, first reading, all the way through to considering when the title and the commencement date for this bill might happen all within the course of less than 12 hours?\u201D\u2014it is because members of the community have not had an opportunity to submit on what they think might be an appropriate title for this bill. They have not had an opportunity to think about what they think an appropriate commencement date might be for this bill, because it has not been subjected to the normal scrutiny process that all other bills generally are expected to go through. Not even a truncated select committee process where those for whom this bill will have a significant impact can have their views aired and make their views known on what is an appropriate title for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, we have had a number of suggestions already. The Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill, as it currently stands, is fairly basic really. We\u2019ve heard about the \u201CPoor Pay Promise\u201D. We\u2019ve heard from Mr McAnulty about the \u201CBack to the Status Quo\u201D as the title of this bill. This bill needs to be reflective of what it actually seeks to do. It is a clawback bill. It is a clawback bill and perhaps that should be specified in the title, but we have not had the opportunity to hear from members of the public about what the appropriate title will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s just reflect on who those members and organisations may actually be that want to share their views with this House and members of this House about when an appropriate commencement date would be\u2014those who are engaged in sectors such as security, early childhood, bus drivers, and cleaners, the very people that make this particular House tick over day in, day night. When we all leave here in the space of 45 minutes, they will still be here, far beyond it. Those are the very people who should have the opportunity to reflect on and submit on what an appropriate title will be for this bill. Because remember, Madam Chair, this is the title for which the Act, if it is given Royal assent, will be forever known as, so it\u2019s not something that should be just treated lightly. And I think that the Minister does deserve to have\u2014for those who have not been able to participate in a scrutiny process or a select committee process\u2014the opportunity to share with them why the bill as currently drafted in its title and its commencement date is appropriate for the circumstances. Because certainly what we\u2019ve heard in this House today, all of those circumstances, all of the aspects of debate do not lend itself to the current commencement suggestion in terms of date or title. So I expect a response from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u002239f5862316174c82b0598a38ba75d2e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239f5862316174c82b0598a38ba75d2e4\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224d034148043a454abfc250b449171c77\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on the question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00229be9a14c444444e6877360eda8917066\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229be9a14c444444e6877360eda8917066\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Rachel Boyack\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 is out of order as not an objective description of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225856dd8780eb4d06a6945de71e386137\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00221ab86161aee94eae8f043261b2f071b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ab86161aee94eae8f043261b2f071b1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Rachel Boyack\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022144a49bba60c4d85ad667bfce5517b3a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002235d5ccce53274a43829df40dc0bf1764\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235d5ccce53274a43829df40dc0bf1764\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 to require a referendum be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bd3c913e45164481ab3ca9f3f5530a6b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e3edbf4570384015afbd880e763c3d27\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001415\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment. \u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001416\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00229690c167453d4a6a84c63edbae0e898f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229690c167453d4a6a84c63edbae0e898f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The committee has considered the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002235f0272763cf4162a610d6ac46786028\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235f0272763cf4162a610d6ac46786028\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for third reading immediately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220982585723a941a3a3570e01c771a78a\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00229022c5c649824ca5af5fba4c015be301\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229022c5c649824ca5af5fba4c015be301\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. There\u2019s no question before the House. My suggestion to you is that you refer this bill back to the beginning of the Order Paper and that we move to the next bill forthwith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8c0dfacd62540a98912c58e4ed35f95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8c0dfacd62540a98912c58e4ed35f95\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Brooke van Velden. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022d33fdf3010ad43b99e5fafa744d988d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d33fdf3010ad43b99e5fafa744d988d9\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f5d96b40e2e416db7ac56467bd63a70\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, point of order. My colleague Ms Williams has raised a point of order, but there was no response to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc72b8f94f8942fbb87b7fcef009a5c9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the response, I would have thought, spoke for itself, since the member was here on her feet and has remained on her feet and is now in a position to actually begin. Had she done anything other than be on her feet and been sitting down, it may have been a different story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7711bc1ed6a48b4979f4873cadb0e09\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Seeking your clarification, Mr Speaker, is it that a member can be on their feet but making their way to a Chamber desk which is in order, or is there a strict requirement that a member has to be on their feet but in place in order\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202762686e9c84a679e357321642d2894\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: You should finish; go ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022568fc75f9c9541d8ae4713927b9cedd5\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I just thought there were some comments from other members of the House, and last time I checked, points of order were heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022976027690bca45209e89fd473484cbde\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s all right. I\u2019ll just take some advice on that, and, yes, you are right about having it heard in silence. As I have said, the Minister was making her way to her seat. I was watching her, and the mere fact that she could actually have turned around where she was and actually answered or begun her speech and continued on the way to the seat\u2014so, Brooke van Velden.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f96cd13817b4dd4b21eed843fd8176c\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThis bill repeals the Fair Pay Agreements Act and the associated amendments to other Acts and revokes associated regulations. Once the Fair Pay Agreements Act is repealed, bargaining for initiated fair pay agreements will cease as there will be no legislative mechanism to bring any agreements into force. My clear intention with this repeal bill is for the fair pay agreement system to stop and that the bargaining stops as the law ceases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EFair pay agreements were never about fairness. They forced a minority of union workers\u2019 views on all affected workers and businesses, and this Government opposes the views that were put forward by the previous Government and that law. The previous Government introduced legislation in 2022 for the fair pay agreement system. Under that system, unions and employer associations could bargain for employment terms and conditions that covered all employees in an industry or occupation. The Fair Pay Agreements Act and associated regulations came into force on 1 December 2022. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EBoth the National Party and the ACT Party opposed the development and introduction of the fair pay agreements legislation at that time. This repeal has been well signalled for a very, very long time. We have a clear mandate from the voters from the 2023 general election and this Government is delivering on that promise. This Government has committed to repealing the fair pay agreement legislation by Christmas 2023 as part of our coalition agreement between the National Party and the ACT Party, and I am committed to acting as quickly as possible to remove this legislation before any fair pay agreements are finalised and the transition arrangements become more expensive and complex. To reiterate, my clear intention with this bill is that the fair pay agreement system stops and for all bargaining processes to cease. We are doing this to send a clear signal to businesses that this Government understands the pressures that businesses have faced in an environment of increasing inflation and a Labour-led Government that has piled on regulations. Today, this Government is providing certainty to businesses so they can get back to focusing on what they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EThe fair pay agreements diminished the fundamental right to freedom of association, which includes the freedom to not associate. The fair pay agreements risk harming New Zealand\u2019s already dismal productivity growth. The best and most sustainable way to increase the wages of workers and to lower prices for consumers is to improve productivity and reduce the regulations holding businesses back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EWe are a Government that wants to see higher wages for workers and a thriving economy, a thriving, competitive business sector. We want more and better jobs here in New Zealand, and we want to ease the pain of the cost of living crisis. But the fair pay agreement system would not have helped. It would have done so much damage to our economy and to our labour market. Far from being fair, the fair pay agreements risked harming the very workers it was aiming to help. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022503397031cb149fd82552eaa8286f46f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022503397031cb149fd82552eaa8286f46f\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever been more disappointed in this House than I am right at this moment. It\u2019s almost Christmas, and the one Act that would transform our industrial relations system in New Zealand to allow workers to have good pay and conditions, fair pay and conditions, fair health and safety conditions at work; to allow us to have a competitive economy but not based on people\u2019s terms and conditions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7f80ad02ed2459c99633601d4713246\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: There weren\u2019t any\u2014not a single one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c87c3bb7bd944916930d2c69e3d17c45\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think it\u2019s a good point that there isn\u2019t a single one, and wouldn\u2019t it have been better to accept some of the amendments that we had put forward on maintaining some of these fair pay agreements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve said a number of times, these are the most vulnerable workers in New Zealand. We have fair pay agreements\u2014the one for bus drivers is actually quite far progressed, and as much as the Minister says it\u2019s her intention that everything stops, I\u2019m sorry, Minister, but that is up to the law. If there is an existing right, as mentioned in the departmental report under the Legislation Act, that allows some people to continue, then that is what will remain. It is not a dictatorship where Ministers get to decide what goes and what doesn\u2019t. It will be decided under the legislative framework that we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe people that would have benefited from fair pay agreements, as I was saying, are the most vulnerable in our country: our bus drivers, our hospitality workers, our security guards, our commercial cleaners\u2014some of the people that clean this very building that we\u2019re in\u2014early childhood education teachers, and our supermarket workers. Some of these\u2014not all of them\u2014were essential workers during the pandemic we just experienced. They do not have, as I\u2019m sure most people in this House would accept, terms and conditions that are favourable or fair. Something has to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EWhat those of us on this side of the House did is look to the evidence around the world. What do the countries that do have fair pay and conditions for these types of workforces have in common? And the answer is quite simple. They have industry awards very similar to the system that would have been initiated under the fair pay agreements. These are countries we like to compare ourselves to, like Australia, like Italy, like France, like Germany\u2014sophisticated economies that have fair pay and conditions for working people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EInterestingly, even since that work was initiated in New Zealand, more and more evidence is coming to light about how a flexible labour market, which has so long been something that those various commentators on the economy have called for, is actually not the way to have a highly productive, fair workforce. I want to note some of the evidence I haven\u2019t been able to touch on in the debate so far. It\u2019s actually work done by the OECD and institutions like the Economic Policy Institute. I just want to read an important quote which I think signals the way that most economists see the way to a productive economy occurring in 2023. So I want to just quote from the Economic Policy Institute. One of the most recent versions of the OECD Jobs Strategy reports came to a different conclusion on the flexibility of the labour market. It said, \u201Ccountries with policies and institutions that promote job quality, job quantity and greater inclusiveness perform better than countries where the focus of policy is predominantly on enhancing (or preserving) market flexibility.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ESo fair pay agreements work, and they don\u2019t just work for the workers who are covered by them; they actually work for the entire economy. That is one of the most disappointing things about what is occurring today: the fact that not only do we lose the ability for these vulnerable workers to participate in fair pay agreements but we did not have a select committee process where we could have gone through some of the evidence that is emerging around how beneficial industry awards and these type of arrangements are. It is incredibly disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI just want to note for the record that we started debating this bill only this afternoon and we are still in the House here at 11.35 at night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214b94b66e1fa4fce93993564a4c9e925\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s so good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215dfd26d80d24d28bc62ab0265f3e0bb\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not good. It\u2019s disappointing and it\u2019s not, in my view, a correct use of the urgency procedure or fair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022929584787652451f918d8a1896908c1d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: From your experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b43409c51b342a0961167b15790bdda\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, some of us have been here a little longer than others. It\u2019s frankly unconscionable that these fair pay agreements are being taken away from these workers just before Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI want to address some of the comments that the Minister has made, or many comments that have been made in this House, that this is a blunt tool. It is the exact opposite of a blunt tool. The way fair pay agreements are negotiated allows employers and employees to get together\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c87317e2c4d94474a7af242e1962e4f5\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Even if they don\u2019t want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b95f16361001472bbb8f05f3d89b3bb4\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and design a nuanced arrangement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254a97540e51f4b48a1019c1da3c9079f\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Even if they don\u2019t want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291cf73aa47ba47a5ae8598e082d1793e\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that applies to their specific industries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253994f4146ed4968bca201cca72b2975\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Even if they don\u2019t want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286a354f71ea347be85f90aa800ce7aaf\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve heard the member Carl Bates interject repeatedly that people will have to join fair pay agreements even if they don\u2019t want to. I ask the member to reflect on his time in the past, being an employee, if in fact that has been his experience. When you are presented with an employment contract, are you given an option of not accepting that employment contract? Most of the time you are not. You are told, in most industries, when you get an employment agreement, that this is the agreement. Take it or leave it. You know, negotiate around a few tiny things. The same thing can happen with fair pay agreements, as long as those negotiations are in addition, are better, than the fair pay agreement minimum. It is a flaw\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aee3aaefce44bdc9d429a4126ef11af\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: This is union gobbledygook. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220377517c21784c76bc9ce8372cbb8817\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as I\u2019ve said before, and not a\u2014I think it\u2019s expressed very clearly that it\u2019s a minimum standards agreement, and I\u2019m sorry if the member doesn\u2019t understand it, but we have been covering it for a period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI also want to talk about something that I mentioned in the first reading of this fair pay agreements bill, and that is the incredible amount of work that so many people have put into getting us here\u2014well, to the getting the Act in place, and unfortunately now to being here. I also, before I do that, want to reflect on the legislative process and how sometimes these things do happen and they are incredibly disappointing for people. It\u2019s personally very disappointing for me and it\u2019s also disappointing for our party to have these repealed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIt makes me reflect on an area that I used to work in a lot before I became an MP, and that was in the area of equal pay. There was an Act to allow equal pay to occur, and it was passed I think in the 1990s and repealed very shortly thereafter by the National Government. The Labour Party was incredibly disappointed by that, but, as you would have seen, we have brought back equal pay. There is now a mechanism accepted by both sides of the House, and I acknowledge the work done by those in the National Party in relation to equal pay. It\u2019s an idea whose time has come, and it\u2019s accepted on both sides of the House that people should be paid equal pay for work of equal value. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI know that the time will come when fair pay agreements also are in force again under the next Labour Government. And I know that at that time it\u2019s very likely that those who are protesting and interjecting and opposing this will see that the type of labour market that we want to have in New Zealand, one of high wages, one of fair conditions, one of industry awards that allow our productivity to increase\u2014and that\u2019s actually one of the major findings of the OECD: that it increases productivity. I think we all need to have policies in place in New Zealand that increase our productivity. So that\u2019s one of the main things that I\u2019m really disappointed about\u2014that we won\u2019t get the opportunity to see what I\u2019m sure would have been proven: that industry awards do lead to greater productivity and will address one of the key problems that we\u2019ve had in New Zealand over a very, very long period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI also want to thank the public sector for all of the work that they did in putting this bill into place. Many of the people that worked on this bill are now working to repeal it, but it just shows you their professionalism and their integrity\u2014that they can work with any Government, no matter what side of the House, to do the work that needs to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I just want to look back to our Labour values. Looking at high wages and fair conditions was something that Michael Joseph Savage talked about. He said that \u201Creduced wages will not help trade or bring about prosperity. When workers have money and sufficient qualities, trade, industry, and production are buoyant. But the moment wages are reduced, the very reverse is the case.\u201D I do not commend this bill to the House, and I suggest that the House rejects this backwards bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002222546e4f456e4c4eacb64c0a5cc81ab8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222546e4f456e4c4eacb64c0a5cc81ab8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00227151ea3296aa4047b0a56f6a9d7ba796\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227151ea3296aa4047b0a56f6a9d7ba796\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. In my speech, I want to acknowledge all the bus drivers; the cafe workers; the people who service our restaurants where many of our families may be going out for a Christmas dinner; our security guards who may be keeping an eye as we do our Christmas shopping; the commercial cleaners who will be keeping our gyms, for example, clean as we stay well; our early childhood education (ECE) teachers, who will be looking after tamariki, and no doubt many politicians will be visiting those centres for photo ops; and our grocery supermarket workers, who we lauded as essential during the pandemic. Many of those workers could have had better working conditions, better pay, safer working environments should fair pay agreements have actually proceeded and continued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI also want to pay tribute to the union movement. Because through their organising, through actually being in touch with the community, through using evidence, they have put forward really sensible recommendations to ensure that actually we centre the wellbeing of the hundreds of thousands of workers who we often talk about in this House but who the Government has chosen to turn their backs on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThroughout the debate, there was no\u2014absolutely no\u2014mention of evidence to back up this repeal. There\u2019s plenty of evidence to support why having a minimum standard across a sector is good. There\u2019s evidence overseas from the OECD. Our counterparts in Australia are a great example of why this kind of legislation does work and has endured over time\u2014in fact, over several conservative Governments, while this conservative Government has repealed one of the biggest opportunities to improve working conditions many, many times in less than three weeks, and in a country like this one, where we actually experience a really big number of work-related injuries and deaths.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo the message that this Government is sending is that, \u201CIt\u2019s OK. People can continue experiencing poverty wages and unsafe working conditions, because so long as we enable the market to do its bidding then they\u2019ll be able to live good lives.\u201D , because that has worked really well over the past few decades, because this country apparently is at the top when it comes to people\u2019s living standards when it comes to wages versus rents and versus the cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis Government thinks that the trickle-down economics will deliver change for the workers, and it\u2019s vibes-based politics. The Minister should be ashamed that she has been unable to substantiate the arguments. She has been unable to present evidence, and instead of being able to back up her belief as to why the legislation has to be repealed, she has continuously stated that she believes that this is the right thing to do. Why? Because they campaigned on it. Did they campaign on this based on evidence? No they did not. They were not even able, during the election, to call fair pay agreements what they were. They call it every other name to be able to justify their position based on a house of cards, based on absolutely zero evidence. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf the members there are getting heated up and angry about this, then I suggest that next time they visit an ECE centre for a photo opportunity, the next time they do their shopping or take public transport, that they look those workers in their faces and they tell those workers that they deserve the poverty wages that they have and that they don\u2019t have a plan; they don\u2019t actually have a plan to improve the working conditions of those workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b7eff19070f49d7b38e09ffc5adc6fd\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Lower cost of living is what they deserve. Lower inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262c1b7cb0e2146c28e4e0f4556c57f79\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Mate, you can\u2019t lower inflation by keeping workers in poverty wages. Get a grip on reality. For some of you who may have entered into this place, you\u2019re so eager\u2014they\u2019re very eager; sorry, Madam Speaker. They\u2019re very eager to turn their backs on the communities that they campaigned on, and those members should be ashamed. For a Government that likes to claim that the left doesn\u2019t own the workers, they surely like to think that they do, and they\u2019re obsessed with this individual ownership. What they believe is that the employers own the workers; that, actually, the workers should not be able to have power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4ea50b28bc140978748dd838ec8dd1a\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What garbage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddfef2afaec64231979d842da24fec22\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Garbage? The moment that we hear from this Government, after this repeal, that they have a plan, that they have a plan to lift wages, that they have a plan to guarantee safe working conditions, I will believe those words. Because right now, the only thing that we have heard is vibes. It\u2019s unsubstantiated arguments where they have just told us that they think they have a mandate. But you know what? We\u2019re seeing a rising tide of workers organising to oppose the vibes-based policy that this Government is proposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis Government should be concerned that by undermining working conditions, by continuing to keep the workers who serve them\u2014who literally serve them at restaurants, who serve them at the public transport\u2014they\u2019ll be rising up against them. And this Government should not take their support for granted. Because in a few years\u2019 time, what they\u2019ll realise is that their continuous vibes-based policy based on zero arguments will result in poverty wages continuing while the cost of living continues to go up and people are unable to pay their rent and are continuing to work multiple jobs just to survive. If they continue to turn their face away from the streets, away from people living in poverty, what they will see is the continuous people being failed by successive Governments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e081e4c35e84b398403700b1098923f\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: I was at a food bank on Friday, food bank on Monday. Serving food on Monday. Don\u2019t tell me we\u2019re not looking at workers. We\u2019re here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207f52656fa1f47709ca02bb16102b0a9\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: So I encourage those members\u2014yeah, picture these workers. Because clearly the Minister chose to not engage with any of those workers when it came to the substance of this bill. In fact, what we\u2019re seeing is a Government that wants to diminish scrutiny on the proposals that they\u2019re putting forward, both in process and in practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThis Government could have centred the voices of those most impacted, by having taken submissions. They chose not to. They didn\u2019t give a reason for it. So the Green Party will be committed to fighting every step of the way to ensure that our workers continue to be valued; to ensure that our workers continue receiving the wages that they deserve; and that, in fact, we improve those conditions so that the workers that we are supposed to serve have livable wages, not the poverty wages that this Government has guaranteed them for years to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo, in closing, I want to remind the Government members that they don\u2019t have a plan to actually address the cost of living crisis, and that fair pay agreements were one of the things in place to guarantee improvements to the working conditions of those workers. They claim that they will give flexibility to those small-business owners, but they don\u2019t want to talk to the business model that some of these businesses they claim to talk to have. Because if those businesses can\u2019t actually afford to pay their workers decent wages, they don\u2019t deserve to then claim to be business owners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWe do have small businesses who do their work to guarantee good wages, and, actually, the research shows that those working environments do lead to higher productivity; they lead to higher satisfaction. If they think that the flexibility of poverty wages is going to lead to any of those outcomes, I suggest that they go back to school and read up on basic economics. Because the economic illiteracy that they have presented with this bill is, frankly, a disservice to the 200,000 to 300,000 workers who would have benefited from fair pay agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo as we head into Christmas, I want to remind the Government of the cancel culture that they continue to engage with: cancelling the fair pay agreement, cancelling the clean car discount. This is not a Government with ideas. This is a Government that is here to take us backwards, turn the clock back to the failed neo-liberal ideology that has caused rising inequality in this country, and I look forward, in terms of this Government, to be proved right in three years. Our people actually do not deserve this. Our people do not deserve a Government that does not care about inequality, that does not care about poverty, and that does not care about working people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EShame on this Government. The Greens will ensure that this is a one-term Government and that the workers take back the power in this Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0ae20fdcce444b99b5a0556671c0447\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0ae20fdcce444b99b5a0556671c0447\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Today is a great day. It is the day of the liberation of New Zealand from the Fair Pay Agreements Act (FPA). The FPA is simply a mandated union bargaining tool and we will not stand for it. So, with that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022f114fcadea384a779b9aac04786f29d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f114fcadea384a779b9aac04786f29d3\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand First supports the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill for the reason that the Fair Pay Agreements Act is bad legislation\u2014it\u2019s the reason why we put the handbrake on it when we were last in Government and didn\u2019t let it see the light of day. Despite the protestations of the members opposite, these are highly complex agreements that severely disadvantage regional employers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIt was actually illuminating that Minister van Velden notified the House that very few of these agreements were actually started. That shows that either it is not a priority or they were just too hard to get off the ground. Make no mistake, though, New Zealand First has always been in favour of steady rises to the minimum wage. Every time we have had a chance to be in a coalition agreement, we have always used that leverage to advocate for our lowest-paid workers, and we believe that as a Government, we should put pressure on the lower end of the market. But we have a track record of delivering for those workers, and we are proud of that. Camilla Belich inadvertently let the truth slip out in her second reading speech, when she reflected that unionised workers were actually unlikely to benefit from this, because they could already collectively bargain\u2014so mechanisms are already in place for workers in those industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d9c2c0ae40a41f7aaf99c58e5775474\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: 80 percent are not unionised. What about them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d41b026f6ead4a179e7c65d6ce28a064\u0022\u003EMARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s the union\u2019s problem; it\u2019s not the Government\u2019s problem to deal that out. These are overly complex agreements and they are superfluous. Those of us that have been out in the real world know that anyone that is a good worker is highly valued at the moment. We have low unemployment and employers are screaming out for those good workers, and if not here, we have the competition from Australia. So market forces are actually fully in action. This was a solution looking for a problem; it would stifle flexibility in our labour market, it would decrease the appetite for employers to take a risk and employ people. This is bad legislation and we are proud to put it to bed. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002219cd39e4bdf04a49aa4358ec4e39dbb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219cd39e4bdf04a49aa4358ec4e39dbb2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call, and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori has five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u002244fcfdffa3954406ba88bb69acc65538\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244fcfdffa3954406ba88bb69acc65538\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, t\u0113n\u0101 koe te m\u0101reikura. I find it infuriating but not surprising that this House and this Government can move a piece of legislation through like this in one day without any accord or regard or consultation with the Tiriti partner. No regard to the M\u0101ori economy\u2014no regard to the M\u0101ori economy, and without any understanding of the profound impact that this bill will have on the vast majority of M\u0101ori who are employed in the low to minimum wage segment of this economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EThose families have kids, youth, rangatahi\u2014they live in Aotearoa. They\u2019re the principal partner into Te Tiriti o Waitangi. I haven\u2019t heard them talked about or even given regard to have their opinion counted once, and this is all pushed through in one day. And this team over here, they have the capacity to draw this. I know it, it\u2019s in their team, but they have failed to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s not surprising the words I used earlier this morning from one of te ao M\u0101ori\u2019s leading economists of this generation, Whatarangi Winiata. Hey, M\u0101ori had consistently been the shock absorber of the New Zealand economy\u2014the last to be gainfully employed, first to be dismissed, and this will ensure that that\u2019s their fate for three more years. And when you compound that with a cost of living crisis and an attitude from a Government that seeks to give no voice to their partner, then you can expect them here, outside.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223736f737ff5647c8ac67d78967e8561e\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Why do you set such low expectations for us?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8e98865c7ff4221ace524baf9c702d6\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: The expectations set in the M\u0101ori economy and within te ao M\u0101ori are anything but low\u2014anything but low. But, hey, we\u2019ll be back tomorrow, and we can talk again. I\u2019ll leave it at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00221d390ae4c9204052bf3e44cb5653f568\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d390ae4c9204052bf3e44cb5653f568\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come for me to vacate the Chair. The House is adjourned until 9 a.m. tomorrow morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212928aaf74576a4746958a32a1beee5707001496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 11.56 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ac7b67cb6764ff8848f5f8f6456cccc\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 12 DECEMBER 2023\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229617946d96044e8e839ad92e3534991a\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 14 December 2023)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c4022ceabb14fbc8f10fecf1d38d7a7\u0022\u003EFair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022296b60b492aa4e2f90a4b0f7d6d130b7\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022 data-id=\u00223aa714da11ab497bbed78e354039a8d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228415e962-886d-47b9-9356-3fdce746891f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223aa714da11ab497bbed78e354039a8d5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: M\u014Drena. The House is resumed and we return to the third reading of the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill. I\u2019ll call the next speaker, and that\u2019s from call No. 6, which is a split call No. 2, the Green Party, a 5-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00223a4b766f03bf4b1b8ca1f056c94433c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a4b766f03bf4b1b8ca1f056c94433c2\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E It really suits you up there in that seat, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m never going to get tired of saying that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EMy third reading speech is to our workers, is to our unions, is to our wh\u0101nau and community members of workers who are feeling p\u014Duri, are feeling the mamae from the signal that is sent out from this legislation, the message that is sent out from the repeal of the fair pay agreements legislation, which was for the first time in decades\u2014in decades\u2014going to finally address the particular inequities, including for those industries and sectors that are overrepresented by M\u0101ori and by Pasifika and by women and by young people and by disabled people and others. Those systemic inequities, despite best efforts over years to improve the conditions, the pay, the value of workers\u2014those systemic inequities have been stubborn, have been stubborn to get recognition for fair pay, for fair conditions, for valuing workers in particularly precarious work situations, workers in lower paid industries, getting safety recognition, getting their voices included and valued in decisions that are made, getting training and advancement and development settled across those industries, those areas and sectors that we depend on, that we depend on to be able to go about our normal lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI mentioned in my contributions that even though many of us can stand here and point to our own whakapapa and our own links with\u2014for example, both of my parents were decades-long bus drivers here in Wellington, actually, when the old depot used to be down the bottom of Courtenay Place before it moved to Kilbirnie, decades of bus drivers, multi generations of cleaners and cafe workers. My nana actually worked for Lion\u2014the old Lion, was it in \u014Ctara?\u2014as a cleaner and as a chef. I myself have been cleaning motels, a supermarket worker, a retail and bar worker. Those of us who, yes, can have those reflections and those connections\u2014why are we not trying to do the best for them? Every single one of them, every single one of us in here, whether we have those connections or not\u2014whether we have those connections or not. Why are we not trying to do the very best for the people with the least power, the least influence, the least resource, the least wealth and power? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what this legislation is. My message is to our workers, their wh\u0101nau, to unions\u2014we are here. The Greens are here. We always have been. We are bringing your voices into the halls of power. We have been, even recently, including, actually, Mr Speaker, with early childhood education (ECE). Can I do that with ECE rallies? OK, I can\u2019t. I\u2019ll write that off. Including the Green Party members who have been on the ground with strike action and union collective action\u2014myself and Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March were at the rally outside the Epsom electorate offices early in the week; our Labour colleagues were there as well\u2014to hear directly their voices, their experiences, their insights, and their love for supporting people in wh\u0101nau and communities. That is my top aroha and whakaaro for myself in this third reading speech for the Greens and our commitment ongoing, sustained, enduring, and that workers can feel and see and know that they have support here with our party, with our members across the community, with our volunteers and supporters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThat is the commitment that I make in this speech. To be really clear, the repeal of this legislation is an absolute assault on workers. There are all sorts of guises and pretences based on belief\u2014is what we keep hearing from the Minister: based on belief. It\u2019s not; it is a direct assault on workers. The Greens will always support workers. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbaeb06052594946a3ec4894c634ba08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbaeb06052594946a3ec4894c634ba08\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, congratulations on your new role. This repeal bill is the freedom to decide on the relationships that you choose to have as either an employer or an employee. This year, I door-knocked and called over 9,000 people personally across the Whanganui electorate. It may surprise members opposite that this included thousands of workers and New Zealanders of every background. Let me tell you, Mr Speaker, that those workers and New Zealanders of backgrounds across the range, overwhelmingly\u2014overwhelmingly\u2014wanted change, and in my electorate and across New Zealand, we delivered it. This repeal bill is part of that change and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022b078c96a8805441585df7ed51d5dedee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b078c96a8805441585df7ed51d5dedee\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Tuatahi e mihi ana ki a koe.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[Firstly, I\u2019d like to congratulate you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227167261c7a39417fb667c788dc3da529\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono):\u003C/span\u003E Mihi mai, mihi mai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E[Congratulate me, congratulate me.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a68f68cadf144f7099616cb33d4a82b3\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: E mihi ana ki a koe, e te hoa, rawe ki te kite i roto i te t\u016Bru. Pai t\u014D \u0101hua, tino whakah\u012Bh\u012B a Ng\u0101puhi i t\u0113nei w\u0101. N\u014D reira e mihi ana ki a koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[I congratulate you, my friend, it\u2019s great to see you in the Chair. You look good, Ng\u0101puhi is very proud at this time. So I congratulate you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWell, what a shameful day for the\u2014I was going to say the Opposition. They should be the Opposition\u2014they should be the Opposition after this disgraceful day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223358c01cbf844c0eb7f34223f9ff1a22\u0022\u003EHon Melissa Lee\u003C/span\u003E: You were self-reflecting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cbe4872f3e742919c01c814831df953\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m always self-reflecting, Melissa Lee. But at this time here, Aotearoa New Zealand has seen what they have dished up: this disgraceful bill, this disgraceful legislation. I was listening to Marama Davidson, and for many of us, you know, we look at our families. I look at my mother; she used to clean. She used to clean across the courts, and when she used to come to Parliament, we used to look across and I\u2019d go, \u201CYeah, you used to clean over there, Mum.\u201D And my relations that are around town driving buses; my father, who worked on the wharf and drove taxis around here\u2014these people are all very distant to this lot on the other side. They have no relation, they have no connection, they have no empathy in terms of what we\u2019re talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1dde232e1d54020bfe6566b8eefad42\u0022\u003EHon Penny Simmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Say it like you mean it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a4635853e51430f9048e3717c1a347c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely mean it, because this is something where the vulnerable are being hurt\u2014the vulnerable are being hurt. As Marama Davidson says, it hurts us, so the Labour Party gives its commitment, in terms of this fight for our people in the communities. For our people in the communities, it is a sad day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI think so many people are now seeing this Government as a sort of far-right Government that\u2019s very spiteful\u2014very spiteful. There\u2019s no reason this legislation should be passing. I\u2019ve talked to some of our real strong activists and they just see it as the naked greed of the bosses who want to exploit and grind wages down. There\u2019s no problems allowing unions to represent workers and push for better conditions and wages; that\u2019s the cornerstone of enabling working people to get ahead, yet this new Government is only concerned with bosses\u2019 interests. That\u2019s what we\u2019re hearing from the other side, in ensuring they benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThey talk about trickle-down economics. We hear that sort of k\u014Drero all the time from the right, this trickle-down economics, which is a myth: pretending that bosses will pay workers decent wages out of the goodness of their hearts. That\u2019s what we keep hearing: \u201COh, look, I\u2019m a boss and pay my workers well.\u201D\u2014normally just over the minimum wage, and that\u2019s \u201Cwell\u201D to them. And what are you all moaning about? I\u2019ll tell you, I was a former union president\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222749ef24229648cd85d56404bf216001\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Ah!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221deb78cc9ac40f6b7aa1df190846571\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, yeah. I know that\u2019s hard for the other side to accept, because they don\u2019t even know what a union is, but I remember the great Helen Kelly\u2014all of our members know. She put so much time into shaping these fair pay bargaining agreements before she died. She\u2019d turn in her grave\u2014she\u2019d just turn in her grave, watching this legislation go through. She would have been a wonderful MP, probably would have been a wonderful Prime Minister, but that wasn\u2019t what she sought. She sought justice for workers, she sought rights for workers, and I mihi to her for her mahi. I didn\u2019t know her well, but when I did meet with her we used to have a few laughs. I always admired her absolute commitment to workers, and today she\u2019d be turning in her grave. She put a lot of work into this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EToday, too\u2014yesterday, how people can change, so I\u2019d hope that some of that useless lot across the other side will one day follow the lead of the great Jim Bolger. I never thought I\u2019d say that about Jim, you know. In 1991, I thought he was a mongrel, because he brought in\u2014and I\u2019ve told him this, and we\u2019ve had a few laughs\u2014his union-bashing Employment Contracts Act, smashed us at ground level. But didn\u2019t he change. What a good man: turned down knighthoods, and, as well as that, understood where New Zealand was going; understood where the working class were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282aeb1c9fa534e52a10f7468421d9a41\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Envious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022042532fcaa00420a9be17dbe7fe28500\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, you\u2019d be envious of him. I think it\u2019s his strong Irish background. He actually understood the struggle, and so you saw him leading in terms of M\u0101ori issues, in terms of that useless National Government at the time. I\u2019m getting mixed up about the times, the useless National Government then and the useless\u2014I shouldn\u2019t say \u201Cuseless National\u201D because, as we all know, it\u2019s the New Zealand First - led Government by your relation Winston Peters. They just run around like puppies for Winston. But when you see Jim Bolger turning, maybe there\u2019s a chance for him, and I mihi to Jim Bolger today for his work in shaping these fair bargaining agreements. And he\u2019ll be here, probably shedding a tear today, saying \u201CWhat happened to that pathetic, useless National Party that I used to lead?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo shame on this party. Shame on this party in terms of the 90 days. So many wh\u0101nau are reliant on their wages, but now their wages are going to be reduced as the cost of living crisis keeps biting, but shame on this new right\u2014this extreme right Government that is being led by Winston and David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe thing is, the Treasury already warned the far-right Government that repealing the legislation would hurt our most vulnerable workers: M\u0101ori, Pasifika, w\u0101hine\u2014our women, our women workers. You know, I\u2019m a person who was involved, believe it or not, a few years ago, in the mid-1980s, in the northern clerical union. Our drive was equal pay for work of equal value\u2014driven by some of your relations, actually, Camilla. You know, when I think about Evana Belich and all the great union organisers of the \u201880s and the northern clerical union\u2014Linda Burrow, Sarah Murray\u2014these were P\u0101keh\u0101 women committed to the cause of supporting workers and M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1a038c4691841b99429a10c63f8e9b4\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: A Willie Jackson history lesson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a44dc6030bcc458da35cce504b5db31a\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I need to give you fools a history lesson because you don\u2019t know anything about equal pay for work of equal value. Government policy is supposed to benefit the many; repealing this fair pay agreement benefits so few\u2014so few. This new Government should be ashamed of the hollowness of this move, because if Labour regain the Government benches\u2014which is going to happen in three years\u2014our first hundred days will be about restoring mana and rights back to workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1b1dc5118ca43a093cdc4bf34e9dba7\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you won\u2019t be here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d5ff57c51a5498692c129d59c30a17a\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll be here, but you may not be here. We will not allow this new far-right Government to undermine workers\u2019 rights and water down collective bargaining. They refuse to understand why collective bargaining is so important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df1383b29dd44feaa057c8c25233077d\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, \u201CI know what\u2019s best for us.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9049b4d765440188b5b6810e538d28a\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: They all think that individuals can all negotiate for themselves\u2014no, no, here\u2019s the thing: people go to work to do their mahi, to look after their family. They don\u2019t go to work to negotiate with the boss. You can\u2019t have the cleaners\u2014you just can\u2019t do this with our security or our hospitality workers all of a sudden being lumped with this job of being union delegates and union officials. That\u2019s only for special people like our team here. That\u2019s what we\u2019re trained in. But our people just want to do their job, and these idiots, sadly, do not understand the whole line of collective bargaining. It all comes under market flexibility for them\u2014\u201Cthe individual can do this\u201D. We\u2019re not interested in that type of mantra; we\u2019re interested in collective bargaining, teams, unions, people bonding together. That is something that is foreign to this far-right, useless Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EACT, National, and New Zealand First\u2014they are bonded by their malice towards beneficiaries, renters, workers, and the environment. There\u2019s no doubt about that. Now, a country that punishes them rather than supports them is a country that rules for the rich and not for the poor\u2014that sums them up all again. Here\u2019s one of the perfect examples just walking in: no aroha. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1ddd4a4a59e440b88f7be7bc23be423\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I am a perfect example.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bed2c0c3df8b4ea1bff293ec173f8286\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve got no aroha for the people. It\u2019s a country none of us want to be a part of, and we don\u2019t want to be part of that filthy right agenda. We want our people to come together, and I give a commitment that Labour will keep fighting against these right-wing fundamentalists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00228ae7264e995d4df3940bf39b57f45b6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ae7264e995d4df3940bf39b57f45b6e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate that members may have put too much sugar on their Weet-Bix this morning, but let\u2019s try to keep the debate focused on the bill and less insults.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u00225e8851952d8746b4a48955a1605f048c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e8851952d8746b4a48955a1605f048c\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, congratulations on your new role, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266d74f953be74895acff4ca8fd795101\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: You too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba48a6e383884785944fda0d41f26d00\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Today is a great day for small-business owners around New Zealand. For those that are out there on the farms doing the work and actually risking their livelihoods and employing people and having great relationships with their employees, and for the people of Northland and all the small-business owners round Northland and the tourism businesses in the Bay of Islands\u2014it\u2019s a great day for them, because this is one less layer of bureaucracy they have to worry about and deal with. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u00223582922392a04a05a83f0c89fe28a506\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223582922392a04a05a83f0c89fe28a506\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today is a day where a whole lot of New Zealanders lose a brighter future. What had been established over many, many years was that we had a problem. We had a problem of a low-wage economy where a whole lot of people were sinking, and we have the consequences of that, which we see every day. I used to see that in my office, because I worked in this area, and it sent me to Parliament because it was utterly tragic, what I saw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, last night I told a story to you about that, on the other side of the House. I told you about how the comment that we\u2019d had earlier about bus drivers, about them stopping to pee on the side of the road because there were no toilets, was true. I knew it was true because I had been in a situation where I had written a strike notice which simply insisted on toilet breaks. The response I got wasn\u2019t the quiet I\u2019m getting this morning; it was cackling. It was cackling and dismissive. But that\u2019s a real story. What happened in that situation\u2014and I\u2019ll repeat it for those who weren\u2019t here\u2014was that I wrote a strike notice which simply said that the Auckland bus drivers would go away and take their toilet breaks as a form of strike action. The response of their employer at the time was to lock them out, because that was enough\u2014that was enough\u2014for them to tip all those workers out on the street and not pay them. We ended up with it going into the Herald as an editorial that perhaps on this occasion those workers weren\u2019t to blame and, in fact, their employer probably deserved a little bit of criticism over this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo when you talk about good employers, you\u2019ve got to remember there are some ratbags out there, and the good ones are actually in a position where they\u2019re harmed by those bad ones. Let me take that example a little bit further, because those bus drivers were in a situation where we had set them up, as a Government, as a Parliament, where the employers of bus drivers were constantly racing to the bottom because they had to compete with others who were willing to do that. So there was a competitive process between different bus companies, and the one that could pay the lowest wages won. That\u2019s how we had set things up, because of the ideology that I am watching in the House this morning pass this bill. It was seen as a good thing for us, a good thing for New Zealand, to have the lowest-paid workers that we possibly could, because that would somehow bring about equality and wellbeing and growth to our economy. Well, it didn\u2019t. What it did was it sunk people, sunk people to the absolute bare minimum, and we have terrible child poverty as a result. That is what you are reinforcing again today in the Government. That is a problem, because you are sinking people, in the Government today. You are sinking their hopes and their dreams and the dreams of their kids, and that is what is going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo we know we\u2019ve got a problem. We know we\u2019ve got a problem with all those sectors that have just asked for the bargaining that they have. One of them is bus drivers, but there are others. There are early childcare workers, there are hospitality workers. Those groups of people haven\u2019t flourished in our society; they\u2019re not paid enough, and the solution that was crafted was just to give them a minimum floor. The 80 percent of people who aren\u2019t in unions were going to have a minimum floor. That\u2019s all that we were doing. That wasn\u2019t something that we should be afraid of. That was something that put employers on a level playing field so that we could get on with doing what we need to do best, which is paying people a decent amount, because growth means nothing if it\u2019s all going to the multinationals overseas, which it was with the bus companies\u2014they were all based overseas. These companies were making money and taking it out of the hands and the families in this actual society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s who we owe an obligation to, and we need a future. Today, we\u2019re taking a step way back, and there\u2019ll be consequences, but we\u2019ll be here in three years with a future and a solution that is positive and that is all about growth and real growth and real wellbeing of New Zealanders, not this ridiculous hark back to the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00229d198a18ee044f5d9f6975cc9f552174\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d198a18ee044f5d9f6975cc9f552174\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for Disability Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ll take this brief split call on the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe public of New Zealand voted for change in the last election. They voted for change because, unlike the previous Labour Government, they knew what a mess our economy had been put into and they knew that we had to have change to get maximum flexibility in our businesses to get our country out of the mess that it had been put in by the previous Labour Government. This is a small part of making that change. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe8c3804111a4503b1a4fba027c4bd43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe8c3804111a4503b1a4fba027c4bd43\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s not a privilege to take a call on this bill today, because, as I said in my second reading speech yesterday, it is a dark day for workers. What has concerned me a lot about the debate\u2014and it\u2019s happening again\u2014is that when those of us on this side of the House who are proud to have worked alongside some of New Zealand\u2019s most vulnerable workers are telling stories about bus drivers having to take a pee in the bushes, the other side have laughed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI just find it so offensive that people on the other side of this House actually think that stories about workers being mistreated in the workplace, having to go to the toilet in a bush, having to argue why they need to keep their job because they\u2019re an older woman without savings and they just can\u2019t stack a supermarket shelf that quickly\u2014again, I\u2019m seeing smirks. Please don\u2019t do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis is why I\u2019m so proud to stand here today on this side of the House\u2014because these things aren\u2019t funny. They\u2019re not funny. I\u2019ve sat with workers in tears and with, unfortunately, mental health challenges as a result of what\u2019s happening in the workplace. I\u2019ve heard claims of sexual harassment of women by their managers that are not being taken seriously. I say to the other side: maybe put yourselves in the shoes of some of those people just for 10 minutes, would you? This is a serious matter for New Zealand workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EBack in 1991 when the Employment Contracts Act was brought in, it took away the ability for us to have sector agreements. And during this debate, they\u2019ve been talked about as being some kind of weird thing. My colleague Helen White talked briefly about what they actually are, which is minimum standards, and I might just talk about some of the really basic minimum standards that could have been introduced into the retail agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIf you\u2019re a retail worker, if you\u2019re a supermarket worker, or you work for Bunnings or Farmers or one of those big-box retailers, quite often people will have rosters from Tuesday to Saturday, which is very normal. It\u2019s expected if you work in retail that you will work a Saturday or Sunday and it\u2019s reasonable to have that expectation as they are the busiest days for retail. But if you work a Tuesday to Saturday roster, given that most of our public holidays in New Zealand are on a Monday, you miss out on about six days of public holidays. It\u2019s actually a whole week of leave that you miss out on. And just recognise again that these retailers are multimillion-dollar businesses. They\u2019re making significant amounts of profit. One of the things that we built into collective agreements with retail was that if you worked a Tuesday to Saturday roster, the Tuesday would be treated like a Monday. It\u2019s pretty reasonable. It\u2019s a pretty basic minimum standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWe have minimum standards in law already. We have the minimum wage, we have our annual leave, we have public holidays, we have sick leave, we have bereavement leave. But one of the things is that across each sector there are actually specific things relevant to each sector that don\u2019t get covered by that, and this is what we were doing. We weren\u2019t looking to achieve a gold standard agreement necessarily. That is actually still the opportunity between either a union and an employer or an individual and an employer\u2014to get to gold standard. We just wanted bronze standard, you know, for a lot of these workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ETake that bus driver example again. We\u2019ve seen split shifts across the country. There are examples in Auckland of bus drivers starting their day in South Auckland ending up in central Auckland for a four-hour break before starting their shift again. So they\u2019re not actually able to get home to spend time with their families or maybe pick the kids up from school. They\u2019re expected to have this four-hour break hanging around in the Auckland CBD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWhat a fair pay agreement would have been able to do is deal with that specific issue and set a minimum standard around it. It wasn\u2019t about saying we\u2019re going to pay people 100 bucks an hour or anything outrageous that the other side\u2019s kind of scaremongering about. It was about saying what are the minimum standards that are relevant for that industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI think what\u2019s really fascinating about this is that when Jim Bolger worked on this law in the 52nd Parliament, one of the things he noted in 1991\u2014and we can talk about what happened in 1991. I think the Government at that time expected the union movement to push back harder than it did, and we all know from history that it didn\u2019t. He has now accepted that they went too far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo if you look at our history around employment law, the fifth Labour Government brought in the Employment Relations Act. It brought back collective bargaining. It brought back multi-employer collective agreements (MECAs), which are actually really similar to what we are trying to achieve with fair pay agreements. What we saw with those MECAs was that that only worked mostly in the health sector when the Government of the day instructed those departments to agree to a MECA. It was still a voluntary process. We didn\u2019t see MECAs roll out across the country as we had hoped to through the Employment Relations Act. So it\u2019s the missing piece of the employment puzzle that needed to be brought back in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really common overseas. Everyone in New Zealand, economic commentators, business leaders, unions\u2014we all talk about how things are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9a0a00fe5ac467a801ce0eba5f0ca44\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re all wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228834c917ab144668899364fdd150f475\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re all wrong, apparently\u2014even business leaders, according to Simon Court. He just said they\u2019re all wrong. So business leaders, economic leaders, Simon Court from ACT thinks you\u2019re wrong. They talk about Australia. We have so much evidence to show that there are higher wages over in Australia. One of the reasons, as I\u2019ve said in previous contributions, is that they have what they call enterprise bargaining, which is the comparable sector-based bargaining that we were looking to achieve. The sky hasn\u2019t fallen over there. When you look around at where they have this type of bargaining, the sky hasn\u2019t fallen. All it does is ensure that we have minimum standards that reflect the needs of that particular industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve talked a lot in my contributions about supermarket workers and I\u2019m going to continue with that theme a little bit. There are two submissions that have been sent to me that I want to read out. The first is from wonderful Connor, who was really brave and spoke on the forecourt of Parliament yesterday. He told me that fair pay agreements are important to him because they would lift the pay and conditions that essential workers could achieve. He said they would put an end to the status quo of those workers being undervalued by the most greedy and exploitative employers in the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI want to talk a bit about that because we have a duopoly. We have Countdown/Woolworths, owned by an Australian company and all the profit heads back to Australia. Then we have Foodstuffs New Zealand, which is split into Foodstuffs North Island and Foodstuffs South Island\u2014actually, a nice union of employers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIf you look at Foodstuffs employers, they are part of a collective and I\u2019ve been on the other side of bargaining with a Foodstuffs supermarket, a multibillion-dollar one where they try to say, \u201CNo, no, no, we\u2019ve got our own approach to this.\u201D, yet they put the exact same terms and conditions from each supermarket into the negotiating space. So they try to pretend that they\u2019re somehow unique and individual but they all come up with the exact same option for an agreement. So, you know, they can say one thing but the actions show something quite different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said in previous contributions, during COVID it really was wonderful to see people thanking supermarket workers. We saw art competitions from children in primary schools, and they sent beautiful art to say thank you to our essential workers during COVID. People dropped off cards and chocolates and thanked them in newspaper articles, but what they really need is actually to be treated decently in their employment and paid properly. Thanking people is all very nice, but a thankyou and a box of chocolates doesn\u2019t buy your supermarket shop for the week. It doesn\u2019t pay your mortgage or your rent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to finish by reading the submission on the original legislation from my friend Jenny Wells. Here is what she said: \u201CWhen employers can make unilateral decisions regarding employment without consultation with employees, it is unjust. When employers declare that an employee is not allowed to share their pay rate or employment conditions with other people, it is unjust. When an employer can set a pay rate for a position arbitrarily, it is unjust. It is unjust because it sets people against each other. Then the only way to deal with workplace disputes is through the Employment Relations Authority. It is unjust because the authority takes years to make a decision, however just. As William E Gladstone said in 1866, justice delayed is justice denied. The purpose of a fair pay agreement is to have a consistent wage and consistent conditions across an industry. I work in the retail sector in a supermarket. Recently it has been revealed that all supermarkets are making excess profits. However, what is different between the different supermarket chains is that they treat their staff differently. There are different rates of pay. There is a different approach to how public holidays are dealt with. There are different approaches to staffing levels and to places considered to need an extra level of expertise. Having a fair pay agreement means that both employers and employees will know what to expect.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EAs a Labour MP I said in my maiden speech that I would not rest until I saw a retail fair pay agreement. That is the commitment from me but it is the commitment from all Labour Party members\u2014that when workers\u2019 rights are under attack, we will stand up and fight back. We will make sure that these fair pay agreements become a reality when we are back on the Treasury benches in 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e53e0546190d427aaf37c9210d28a73f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e53e0546190d427aaf37c9210d28a73f\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Congratulations on your new role. Despite the rhetoric from the other side of the House over there, our business owners in the Wairarapa electorate take their responsibilities to their employees seriously, in good times and bad. If they\u2019re forced to lay off staff, reduce production, or close their doors, everyone suffers, and the fair pay agreement will do nothing\u2014nothing\u2014to lift the productivity that New Zealand desperately needs. I look forward to seeing this Act repealed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228ac202ebdf204779a4d54056b6ee7aad\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Fair Pay Agreements Act Repeal Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000073\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022912741b2d7f24d11872aa7a5e4444a91\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002294259b164cfb4be890233c878dcd0249\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00227e3e782e23ee49adaf0838a70f3af166\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e3e782e23ee49adaf0838a70f3af166\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f02a7d4871e041e2ae316c17843ec909\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022959498aaba82469383316fe2f791eb9f\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Land Vehicle (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240e9b822ec72477a820a3ed007c805cb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ad309a1da44400cb61e89e30e0416b0\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Today, I\u2019m introducing the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Repeal) Amendment Bill into the House, which gives effect to the National Party\u2019s commitment to ending the ute tax within our first 100 days. This piece of legislation is also part of our coalition agreement with the ACT Party, who made the same commitment: ending the scheme\u2014which is reflected in our coalition agreement between our two parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis is good news for our farmers and tradies who have been hammered by the last Government and who were forced to pay exorbitant fees buying the vehicles they needed to be able to do their jobs. This bill ends the unnecessary, regressive, and fiscally irresponsible ute tax and Clean Car Discount Scheme. It is an important priority for the Government and it is one of our actions in our first 100 days. Axing the ute tax is one of the policies New Zealanders voted for and which they expect us to deliver, and which we are delivering on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis bill does a number of things. Firstly, what it does is it repeals the legislation to ensure that the scheme ends on 31 December 2023, both for the discounts and also for the tax. It repeals the legislation which the last Government put in place, and requires that scheme to come to an end. This scheme needs to come to an end for three very important reasons: firstly, it is fiscally irresponsible. The scheme has cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars, and it will only continue to cost taxpayers more and more money the longer it stays in place. Through to 30 November 2023, $579 million was paid out in rebates, $13.5 million was spent in cost to establish and operate the scheme, while $290 million has been received from charges. This has meant that taxpayers had to foot the bill by an eye-watering $302.5 million deficit paid to New Zealand Transport Agency via grants from the Crown\u2014that is taxpayers\u2019 money. Now, on this side of the House, we respect taxpayers\u2019 money, and we know that money doesn\u2019t just grow on trees. I think that\u2019s the philosophy of the former Government\u2014and that is one of the reasons why they are now in Opposition, because they had a view that money simply grew on trees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo this scheme was fiscally irresponsible, and to address that, what the Crown would have to have done to continue with this scheme was do a number of potential changes: firstly, possibly lowering or restricting rebates to electric vehicles\u2014effectively, not continuing with the high subsidies that were put in place by the former Government; secondly, increasing charges even more for ute buyers, making it even harder for our farmers and tradies who needed to purchase the vehicles they need to be able to do their job; or providing even more Crown funding. The former Government thought money grew on trees\u2014that probably is exactly what they would have done, and thrown more taxpayers\u2019 money into a scheme which is fiscally irresponsible. So by ending this scheme by 31 December, we don\u2019t need to do any of those actions. Instead, we can ensure that this fiscally irresponsible scheme comes to an end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut we also need to look at the inequities that this scheme was providing, and one of the key facts which I highlighted yesterday in question time was around how this scheme was taking money from people who had very little choice around the types of vehicles that they could use. [Interruption] I hear Grant McCallum, the excellent member for Northland, who is doing a great job in that electorate and who needs his ute to get around his electorate and his farm. The reality is it was taking money from people like him\u2014people who don\u2019t have the choice around purchasing an electric vehicle for their type of work and then subsidising people who do have the choice. In fact, over $122 million was provided as subsidies to people purchasing electric vehicles worth over $70,000 in the last 18 months. Taking money from people who have little choice\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232f636f5aad440618d4723601ab4e351\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well, anyone who didn\u2019t like it can pay it back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e350297fb9c463a927d037f4c7822f8\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I hear the former Minister for a lot of things\u2014emphasis on \u201Cformer\u201D\u2014complaining about this bill. I look forward to her speech a little bit later. But the point is, this policy was taking from those who didn\u2019t have a choice and giving it to people who could afford to pay for those vehicles, and so by ending this scheme we are ending the reverse Robin Hood scheme. I thought the party opposite were the party for workers\u2014I thought they were the party for workers. They\u2019ve tried to spend the last two days trying to tell everybody in this House how much they care about the workers. But actually, what they are the party of is\u2014they want to subsidise people who can already afford to buy a very high-end electric vehicle and provide them more subsidies; that is actually who the party is, over on the other side. And so by removing this scheme, we remove the inequities that it was providing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EFinally, by removing this scheme, we\u2019re able to actually focus on what is required to actually improve the uptake of electric vehicles in New Zealand, which is what will make a real difference, and that is investing in the electric vehicle charging infrastructure that we need across New Zealand. On this side of the House, we are the party of infrastructure, we are the party which gets things done, and we will be rolling out policies to implement 10,000 electric vehicle chargers by 2030 to actually ensure that people purchasing electric vehicles have the confidence to be able to charge their vehicles and travel around New Zealand. Because what we know is that car manufacturers around the world are switching to electric in all of their production chains; we don\u2019t need to be providing very expensive subsidies to make them do that. In fact, we are such a small part of the car market in New Zealand\u2014what we do makes a very little difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn fact, those cars will be coming here\u2014and I note even Ford announced yesterday that on 1\u00A0January, the day after this scheme ends, they are reducing the price of their vehicles by $5,000. And so the car industry will be keen to make sure the vehicles they are manufacturing around the world will be coming to New Zealand; that New Zealanders will continue to have the choice and the range of electric vehicles, and we\u2019ll provide the electric vehicle charging infrastructure so that they can have that uptake so we can electrify our fleet here in New Zealand\u2014we have a positive plan to do that. We don\u2019t need an inequitable scheme which is fiscally irresponsible, which is what the past Government did. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00226495b9a509c84256baf5be723715e7c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226495b9a509c84256baf5be723715e7c0\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker. Can I firstly congratulate you on your ascension to the high office that you now hold. I heard the Hon Marama Davidson say that you look good in that seat. I agree with that sentiment. It\u2019s good to see that half of the New Zealand Parliament\u2019s Cook Island caucus is represented in the presiding officer\u2019s seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take a call on the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill. As we progress through the many hours ahead today\u2014in terms of progressing this bill at various stages\u2014we\u2019ll be having some conversations about the appropriateness of what this bill is called, amongst other things. But this is very clearly a step back into the future\u2014a step back into the past. That is not the direction that any country in this world needs to be heading when it comes to meeting the needs of tackling climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, members opposite might be quite comfortable with that, but let\u2019s not have any confusion around this: for members on this side of the House, that is not the case. We have already dealt with the Reserve Bank. We have disgracefully passed the piece of legislation that, effectively, removes the rights of hard-working Kiwis here in Aotearoa New Zealand. Now, we are considering a bill that will, effectively, roll back steps towards meeting our obligations when it comes to addressing the immediate and near need around climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Minister of Transport\u2014my breakfast TV buddy\u2014who I have said previously is leadership material. I thought he was going to be the Deputy Prime Minister, and I stated that on television. I have to say that his pathetic attempt at addressing the House with this piece of legislation has meant that all of those aspirations, that he might still hold, no longer exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe heard from the Minister that he\u2019s had an opportunity to focus on this regressive and fiscally irresponsible piece of legislation, as it currently stands. He\u2019s talked about fiscal irresponsibility. He has talked about how we would be taking the money from hard workers and, effectively, giving it to the rich. How fiscally responsible is it, then, for the Tesla-loving Prime Minister\u2019s household to be able to access the very rebate that his Government seeks to remove? The question that many of us will be asking: is he going to pay it back? Are other members opposite, who may have benefited from this\u2014given they are the very ones who want to remove this piece of opportunity\u2014are they going to be paying it back? I bet you they won\u2019t. I bet you, Mr Speaker, that they won\u2019t. Because it\u2019s all about, actually, taking from others, but when it concerns themselves, it\u2019s a different consideration, as far as they see that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think taxpayers think it\u2019s right for a Government to want to focus on removing a rebate\u2014the very rebate that the Prime Minister has benefited from. I think that, as we progress through this piece of legislation over the coming hours\u2014and perhaps coming days; who knows?\u2014there will be some contributions about the relevancy of this piece of legislation, particularly where leaders in the current Government have, effectively, benefited from this particular rebate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019ll be plenty of opportunity to talk about this rushed process. Those who may have switched on their telly on a Thursday morning, or listen to the radio, might be thinking, \u201CWhy is the House sitting at this particular point in time?\u201D Well, we can share with them that it\u2019s because the House is, unfortunately, in urgency. Urgency is utilised for what the House considers to be the most pressing issues, for the most pressing needs. What we\u2019ve heard from the Government is that the rationale for progressing this piece of legislation is that it is to give effect to key elements of the so-called 100-day plan that they have. It\u2019s interesting, isn\u2019t it? Because I think members in the House\u2014and, certainly, I think, lots of people all around the country\u2014will be thinking, \u201CMy, my, how has the Government prioritised this over some of the many other things that they went into the election indicating that they wanted to roll back or do?\u201D What is it that they are purely focused on when they identify this piece of legislation which is focusing on actually removing something that is going to make a huge difference, and it has proven so? So on this side of the House, we will vehemently oppose all stages of progress for this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfe9200debc4470cae4d802c16debe29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfe9200debc4470cae4d802c16debe29\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I have to say that I am so proud of what we achieved with the Clean Car Discount over the last 18 months. This was a policy that I worked on as Associate Minister of Transport in the first coalition Government from 2017 to 2020. What we can say is that it is now the single most effective climate policy implemented by any Government in New Zealand so far. It has made a concrete difference to the amount of carbon emissions, but not just that: the amount of money that New Zealanders are spending on fuel to get around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe have saved two megatons of carbon already. This is a very technical point, but I think I need to\u2014yeah, this is a technical point. I\u2019m going to go on with it. I think members opposite are confused about a letter which is absolutely public, and you can see it any time, and I\u2019d love to talk you through it, because the National Party is missing out on the opportunity to get a more productive transport system while reducing emissions and pollution. It is possible to do both. This was a genuine solution that did both.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI have to address the misinformation in the Minister\u2019s\u2014basically, the Minister has a bunch of culture war talking points that have no evidence or basis in reality. The reality is that the Clean Car Discount programme is fair and Kiwis support it. The polling shows only 20 percent of New Zealanders oppose it. A majority of New Zealanders support it\u201452 percent. A majority of National Party voters support the Clean Car Discount. Why? Because it\u2019s fair and we\u2019re all in this together. This is a practical solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, if the members opposite want a genuine solution to climate change, they need to realise that sitting back and doing nothing will not work. We have to work together to make the change, and every New Zealander can be part of this solution. The beauty of the Clean Car Discount was that even the people who need to buy the highly polluting vehicles for whatever reason: they\u2019re choosing do that, they have to do that\u2014they also contribute to getting more zero-emissions and low-emissions vehicles on the road. So while they\u2019re driving their big ute, they are also helping to ensure that somebody else is able to get into an electric vehicle, and overall that reduces our emissions together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe National Party does not care about equity. Do not believe what they say when they say that they care about equity, because they are giving tonnes of money to the wealthiest people through tax cuts back to landlords. So they\u2019re giving money back to the richest New Zealanders in a way that does nothing to reduce emissions. The point of this policy is reducing emissions, and it has. If you care about equity, let\u2019s see it in your tax proposals. Let\u2019s see it in your benefit proposals. If you cared about equity, then the National Government would not be proposing tax cuts for landlords and the super-rich.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EFinally, this Government has suppressed the climate analysis. There was a regulatory impact statement prepared on the repeal of this Act that says exactly what the estimated impact will be on our carbon budget, and the Government is refusing to release that as we repeal the bill. So the public and those of us in the House have not got the official information that should have been released to us that tells us what the climate impact of repealing this bill will be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe members in the Government are going to have to confront reality at some point. The Prime Minister has said that he\u2019s committed to meeting the carbon budget, and yet they have zero plan to actually achieve that. We know that relying on the emissions trading scheme (ETS), fuel being in the ETS, does nothing to help New Zealanders get into lower-emissions vehicles. What it does do is it means once people are already in high-emitting vehicles, they have to pay more to drive around. So that is what the National Government is going to have to be relying on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe beauty of the \u201Cfeebate\u201D\u2014which, by the way, has been extremely successful in many other countries. France has had one since 2008, and the highest fee now has gone from\u2014it started at \u20AC2,000, then it was \u20AC30,000, now it\u2019s up to \u20AC50,000 on the highest-emitting vehicle. The price incentive at the point of purchase of the vehicle is what influences the vehicle importers to offer those low-emission vehicles to the market. It\u2019s what saves New Zealanders\u2019 businesses and households money when they need to drive around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe will go through this in more detail during this debate, and I look forward to the members opposite engaging in evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022d663e8e1f3614a4fb900aa5959dee944\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d663e8e1f3614a4fb900aa5959dee944\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The ACT Party is proud to support the repeal of the clean vehicle discount scheme, a scheme which submitters to the 53rd Parliament\u2019s Transport and Infrastructure Committee said was completely unnecessary. Vehicle manufacturers said, quite clearly, between 2025 and 2028 they\u2019re going to completely retool manufacturing in Asia, South-east Asia, and Europe to produce almost nothing but EVs and hybrids. So if you currently drive a Ford Ranger turbo-diesel, you\u2019ll be able to get one\u2014according to the manufacturers\u2014in a hybrid in the next couple of years that will be very, very low with any emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, the previous Government, having heard that, proceeded to introduce a scheme which applied a whole lot of costs to tradies and farmers and large families who wanted to replace an older vehicle with a big van. They applied all of these costs and absolutely ignored the impacts on families and the productive sector. They were told this scheme was unnecessary and that all of the emissions reductions would be delivered between now and 2030 by a complete retooling of manufacturing and supply of light vehicles into the market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297b0b86e3d6b4a759359904a810896e5\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Then why did the vehicle industry want the policy? The vehicle industry supported the rebate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287fc642343c643b5bff8b83b33e9e52a\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: There was a market-based solution available. Now, to that member, Julie Anne Genter, heckling irrationally from the sidelines, the member said it\u2019s time to confront reality. Well, it is. This wild scheme has led to a $300 million deficit, Julie Anne Genter\u2014a $300 million deficit\u2014between the amount of money recovered from long-suffering tradies, farmers, and big families who needed to replace a vehicle with a petrol diesel vehicle, and the amount of money paid out to people who receive subsidies for Teslas and other very expensive EVs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EOver $120 million was paid out to people to buy vehicles worth more than $70,000. That statistic alone confirms what ACT, what National, and what submitters to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee told that committee. The scheme was unnecessary. It was fiscally irresponsible. It would lead to a massive transfer of wealth from some taxpayers and consumers to a very few who could already afford to spend $70,000 on a new car and would receive a subsidy of up to $8,000 from other taxpayers and consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIt was bad policy, it was bad law, and the ACT Party is proud\u2014proud\u2014to see the end of the Clean Car Discount, the ute tax, and restore some sanity into climate policy and transport policy after the last three years of frothing and boiling nonsense from the Green Party and their woke mates in the Labour Party. It ends today. Goodbye, Clean Car Discount. Goodbye, ute tax. Goodbye, Labour and Greens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3e5c69a22d643e1b89c0a8b9856c66a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3e5c69a22d643e1b89c0a8b9856c66a\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to also support the Land Transport (Repeal of Clean Car Discounts) Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ENothing\u2014nothing\u2014signals how out of touch the modern Labour Party is with its working-class heritage in this deeply regressive tax on working-class New Zealanders that sees them subsidising those in the leafy suburbs to buy their Teslas. It shows a lack of understanding for the necessity of utes in particular, and the importance for our farmers and our tradies, and the critical roles that they play in our economy. They simply do not have the alternatives at the moment, as Simon Court has just outlined. Those alternatives are coming. The manufacturers are scaling up; they will become the tool of choice when they are available, but they simply are not at this moment. Of course, those big families that may have to get a van or whatever to get about, they\u2019ve also been heavily, heavily punished by this. The answers are actually, Mr Scott Willis, in the macro, and getting the amount of renewable energy coming through that actually drives the innovation, it drives the uptake of the technology that is coming through in terms of electric vehicles and the like. That is the role of the Government, not micromanaging and nanny-Stating this. It hugely disadvantages rural New Zealanders who simply don\u2019t have the option due to range to take up an electric vehicle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThese reasons are why New Zealand First, in our last term at Parliament, pulled the handbrake on this. We didn\u2019t support it then, we don\u2019t support it now. We support repealing this scheme. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022604c1dfcae724ca19a5a16319ba5dccf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022604c1dfcae724ca19a5a16319ba5dccf\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E M\u014Drena e te Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa e te Whare. I rise on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori to speak to this first reading of the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EAs kaitiaki of this whenua it is our responsibility to ensure that the health of our taiao is maintained for our mokopuna, and it is for our mokopuna that Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori oppose the bill. The climate crisis threatens our culture, our identity, our marae, our wh\u0101nau, our hap\u016B\u2014tangata whenua katoa. It has been a slow-moving crisis, and depictions of rising temperatures and melting glaciers means that it often feels distant and abstract and therefore misunderstood and unrealised by many in this House. However, the storms that ravaged my rohe of Te Tai Tokerau and other rohe across the motu this year tells us that this distance has now closed and the taiao now, more than ever, is loud and clear in alerting us of their pain and mamae. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe reality is Aotearoa is currently not on track to meet its climate targets. Repealing this policy will increase carbon emissions and it will represent a backward step in terms of acting on climate change. Mokopuna will suffer due to backwards thinking of those in power who are focused on capitalist profit over healthy, functioning, green, wonderful, blue taiao, particularly in Te Tai Tokerau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe protection of Papat\u016B\u0101nuku and a stable global climate cannot be achieved without indigenous leadership and knowledge\u2014t\u0101 te M\u0101ori t\u0113n\u0101 [that is the purview of M\u0101ori], in case you needed clarification\u2014or the recognition of indigenous rights. T\u0101 te M\u0101ori t\u0113n\u0101. [That is the purview of M\u0101ori.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThere are always reasonings behind the tracking of environmental indicators to ensure our taiao remains healthy and in balance. In Aotearoa, that means wh\u0101nau, that means hap\u016B, that means iwi must remain at the forefront of climate action, and the solutions must be our own. We are the first conservationists; I made that point yesterday and I repeat it this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe Climate Change Commission advised that the domestic transport emissions must be halved by 2035, for, as it stands, our transport emissions are one of the fastest-growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions in Aotearoa katoa. This bill repeals the clean vehicle standard, which already saw a large increase in the purchase of electric cars since the policy was first announced. This has begun to slowly bring down the cost of clean vehicles as it increases numbers in the market, including for second-hand sale. While incentivising clean car purchases, it is not the complete solution to the climate crisis. It is 1c of the dollar that is our country\u2019s carbon-neutral target by 2050. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EFor a moment of candour, this policy does not have much of an immediate impact on wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori. Affordability and accessibility remain as barriers to purchasing any car, let alone clean car vehicles. As an MP from a largely rural electorate, we know that for electric vehicles to be a lasting solution, we need to invest massively in infrastructure. As technology advances, it will become more and more a viable option for our wh\u0101nau and our hap\u016B and our iwi. However, our mokopuna will be the ones to reap the benefits of the seeds we plant today. Therefore, the repealing of this policy is a matter of principle, not precedent, and we are sitting by, retracting any form of climate action. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori are deeply concerned with this Government\u2019s ram-raid speed at which they are reversing policies that will reduce emissions and protect our taiao\u2014just want to let the words \u201Cram raid\u201D sink in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWe owe it to our mokopuna to challenge this short-sighted mentality and fight for their future. As tangata whenua, we don\u2019t think a year ahead, or even seven years ahead; we think seven generations ahead, and that is why we expressly reject this ideology and we cannot support this legislation today. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u002222170c2bf20d46da851e2ce56f58b4f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222170c2bf20d46da851e2ce56f58b4f2\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the repeal of this ute tax. As a farmer, we have been punished by this ute tax, because we had no choice. We had no choice. What did the Government of the day think\u2014that we were going to put the dogs on the back of a pushbike; we were going to cart the fence posts around the back of the Prius while we actually did our work and actually earned this country an income? We were punished for actually trying to do our job, and we didn\u2019t have any choice at all. But, of course, because they don\u2019t own businesses and have to work on farms, they don\u2019t understand that, do they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EI also compliment the tradies of this country. They were the ones also with little choice. They need their utes for their job. And the other thing: I come from an electorate called Northland. Believe it or not, in Northland our roads are rubbish, and in Northland you need a ute to get around. So many people in Northland have had to park up their cars and drive utes so they can get around without blowing out tyres. Please go and check all the newsfeeds you like\u2014you\u2019ll see that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ESo I would say to you here now: farmers want to do their part to help with climate change. This is not one of them. This was unfair. I rise now and I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002205f3e92596ac419fbc4dedc38545cf7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205f3e92596ac419fbc4dedc38545cf7c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Overnight, world leaders, including a representative of New Zealand in the form of our climate change Minister, Simon Watts, agreed that the world and the globe needs to have stronger carbon-cutting plans in place by 2025. That agreement\u2014that global agreement came in the same week that our Climate Change Commission released its 2023 advice on the direction of policy for the Government\u2019s second emissions reduction plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat that report says in a nutshell is that New Zealand will meet emissions budget 1 because there have been a series of policies put in place by a Government over the last six years which will mean we meet emissions budget 1, but emissions budgets 2 and 3 are going to require acceleration of some policies. And what is the response of our newly elected Government? It\u2019s to repeal measures that are doing the heavy lifting on removing emissions from our economy. What the risk report says is we have to do all those things that were planned and more, but here\u2019s the rub for the Government, because they signed up to legislation that says that you must produce emissions reduction plans, and if you\u2019re going to take out measures that decrease emissions, you have to replace it with measures that will make that up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I am calling on those members that are barracking with their best climate denial sledges that we\u2019re hearing across this side of the House to actually front up and tell us what they are going to do to reduce emissions. Because what members opposite cannot avoid is that this was an incredibly successful scheme. We\u2019ve heard it being described as a scheme in deficit. This is a scheme that was set to be self-funding in 10 years. It needed a $300 million upfront cost, but its success is that it has overshot expectations, and for all New Zealanders that is a win. Something I think those members and the seats opposite need to start realising is that unless New Zealand cuts its emissions, we will have to go out and buy international credits of other nations and pay for their decarbonisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, on this side of the House, we will back New Zealanders every day of the week, and we will rather do that than pay other countries in their efforts to decarbonise. Drive Electric has put out, in response to this measure, some pretty good data around this measure that the Government is legislating today. It will result in between 100,000 and 350,000 fewer electric cars on New Zealand roads by 2030. And that is a significant problem in terms of the emissions reduction plan, which the Government is now going to have to tell us in detail\u2014down to megatons\u2014what its substitutions are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThroughout the course of this debate, we will be asking those questions. What are those substitutions going to be? If not this, then what? And that is what the Government has to tell us, because transport has some heavy lifting to do in emissions budget 2. Transport makes up half of our energy emissions, and in order for us to meet the carbon reduction budgets that are in place, our light vehicle fleet is absolutely critical to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I am going to look forward to, over the course of this debate, knowing what measures are being put in place to make up for the 900 to 3,000 kilotonnes of carbon that is going to increase in our economy as a result of this measure. I note that the Minister won\u2019t release the regulatory impact statement and there\u2019s a reason, and we will be asking questions about that during the course of this debate. It is being rushed through under urgency\u2014no select committee process\u2014and to make it even worse, a Minister that is sitting on a regulatory impact statement. This will be an interesting debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u00225c90f1fc3a194ec08a258648e1c7c82c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c90f1fc3a194ec08a258648e1c7c82c\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m proud to rise in support of the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill. Firstly, I\u2019d like to commend the leadership of the Minister of Transport, the Hon Simeon Brown, for bringing this bill so quickly to the House to back the rural sector here in New Zealand, our hard-working farmers who that last member, Megan Woods, is out of touch with. She\u2019s spending too much time here in Wellington and needs to get out into our communities and understand what it is like for our rural communities and how they are experiencing it under this ute tax. I\u2019m proud to be part of a party that is going to back our farmers and back our rural sector and ensure that we get back to what we need to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThis scheme is financially unsustainable and fiscally irresponsible, and taxpayers are currently footing the $302 million deficit. Shame! We have plenty more to say but I\u2019d like to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00224572f258379345b78b0e4f1a92576b7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224572f258379345b78b0e4f1a92576b7c\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you very much. I\u2019m very pleased to take a call on this piece of legislation. It is another classic backtrack\u2014not back-on-track; backtrack\u2014legislation. [Interruption] Yeah, backtrack\u2014that\u2019s it exactly. At a time when\u2014as my colleague has just said\u2014we\u2019ve just concluded internationally at COP a commitment to move forward on lower-emitting technologies and efforts across the globe to try and reduce the effects of climate change. It is a little ironic that we pass a piece of legislation that\u2019s going to reverse the direction of travel\u2014pardon the pun.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI was certainly in the firing line when this was introduced, and I\u2019m very aware of the limited number of options around commercial vehicles across the country. Although, in a discussion and further investigation, at the time it was introduced, one little story the member might be interested in: the Ford Ranger, which was a very popular selling\u2014still is popular selling\u2014vehicle, basically runs a Euro5 motor. If Ford had chosen to be selling the Euro6 motor in New Zealand, the $8,000 or thereabouts tax that was being charged and had been charged would have been significantly lower because of the emissions profile of that vehicle. The point being that there is technology around the world to reduce the emissions and reduce the impulse that the previous legislation brought upon many people who were purchasing or needed to purchase utes and commercial vehicles like that. This was an incentive to move us in the right direction, and, indeed, the uptake of electric vehicles and hybrids in this country is a measure of the success of this piece of legislation\u2014that\u2019s now been backtracked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I ask one question? If it was that bad, I ask every single National Party and ACT member of Parliament that took up the subsidy, as they call it, and claimed it for the electric vehicles they purchased to pay it back. Pay the money back. Pay the money back\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243691ea23a134437b03bf6e82da0fecb\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Pay the taxpayer back for all the money you wasted over the last six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2bbc7e3e6404c3d8d45889576287c89\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Pay the money back to the farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d16f4ed2ee24b0abe53428631f03fe2\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Pay the money back if you think that it was a bad scheme. Mr Speaker, there are a few calls over there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c65e81925dec4ed585879379398f1a08\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, interjections: short, sharp, and preferably witty. You\u2019re failing on all counts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a34a852a44254b67857016c5bf8c8267\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just talk about agriculture, for example, and farmers. Yes, it was an impost on those who had to buy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7908dd0bf2d448c825a39e4fb1f3190\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, here we go!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c596ce26b23b48ac82706fd93dda9968\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m acknowledging that. But there\u2019s a lot of them also. In fact, we help a farmer buy an electric vehicle as well, a car. So they paid somewhere; they picked it up somewhere else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I just say the hundreds of millions of dollars that the taxpayers have paid across to the agricultural sector\u2014a good investment, but it is a subsidy by some people\u2019s measure. We call it good investment\u2014we did when we were in Government. Good investment. A billion dollars in one Budget alone for the rural sectors. Eight hundred million dollars from taxpayers to help eliminate Mycoplasma bovis, which, if it had been let run, would have imposed huge additional costs on farmers. We saw the value in that investment, just as the legislation for the Clean Car Discount we saw as a good investment in the future decarbonisation of our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EMy colleague Megan Woods pointed out that if we don\u2019t move to reduce our carbon emissions, we do have a legal obligation in 2030 that will require the writing out of cheques. We thought that early investment in this area, encouraging more electric vehicles into the market, is a smart way forward. Indeed, people like myself who were somewhat cynical about the effectiveness of an electric vehicle but was forced to have one by the Prime Minister\u2014can I say that they are really, really smart vehicles. If you live in a city, everyone should have an electric vehicle. Everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232e2a8a4bb8b4aceafeb8a7c47cb530a\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What about the rural areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4aeb8d610ca49eeb5c706ca9c60c1bb\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, of course there\u2019s a difference in rural areas. We are now starting to see\u2014be it Rivian, be it Ford\u2014a Ranger that is a hybrid vehicle coming on to the market next year. We\u2019re starting to see movement in that direction. We had the vision. This Government is a backtrack Government with a backtrack piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00225cc236316f72421f9f1f0f1dd888f659\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cc236316f72421f9f1f0f1dd888f659\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Mike Butterick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221535775c4d6c44e9a9392205dbc50e53\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: No. Cameron Brewer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ddd717962ef421a9f1743c424fdba00\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Cameron Brewer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4ac2259211e4c7b81d958908946d64f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4ac2259211e4c7b81d958908946d64f\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f1807cbb9824bfb916524581d5e250b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Brewer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022369e094cc4f0496ca6b04a4153c1da5b\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: I rise in support of this bill and perhaps the biggest revelation this morning that we\u2019ve heard has come from one of the most seasoned operators in the Labour Party, Megan Woods. She said in her call that this scheme was supposed to be self-funding in 10 years. Well, yesterday, the Minister of Transport revealed that the Clean Car Discount has become fiscally irresponsible, with taxpayers now footing a $302.5 million deficit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Transport has also admitted that the ute tax in the electric vehicle subsidy scheme is fiscally unsustainable. And even in our explanatory note here, it notes: \u201CThe scheme has challenges that are likely to intensify the longer the scheme is in place. \u2026 it is difficult to make financially sustainable and self-financing; it possesses ongoing equity and fairness concerns; it will become less effective over time as electric vehicle prices fall \u2026 it requires constant changes to its rebates and charges\u201D. Subsequently, I rise in support of this on behalf of hard-working Upper Harbour taxpayers that the Government has decided to discontinue this mad scheme. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220eac6a59a5204e8382543a9646e110f9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000154\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022145e790130d5408daaba51a4cfabdfd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022145e790130d5408daaba51a4cfabdfd7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for second reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a2f66e8be1114ef98fdbeda2c495f24b\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd56b9bb488e427b9253e804e1ec9b4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd56b9bb488e427b9253e804e1ec9b4b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI move that this bill be read a second time and I commend it to the House. I\u2019ve just been listening to the debate from the members opposite who have been trying to tell this House how amazing the scheme was, but they don\u2019t have an answer to one of the key questions here: how are they going to pay for it? There\u2019s a $300 million hole that has been created by that Government\u2014$300 million hole created by that Government\u2014of rebates being paid out over the top of taxes being collected, and they have no answers as to how they\u2019re going to pay for it. That is just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236199ed3e52f419d94a6810104a33b81\u0022\u003EHon Tama Potaka\u003C/span\u003E: Show me the money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da7dcc7888ea4677921cfa4e47e11f5a\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Show us the money. They don\u2019t know where the money is coming from, and it just shows the New Zealand public how much they don\u2019t care when it comes to fiscal responsibility. That is why, on 14 October, New Zealanders voted for the National Party, the ACT Party, and the New Zealand First Party to get this country back on track, to fix the fiscal situation facing New Zealand. And this is only one of many fiscal holes left behind by the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo, as I outlined in my first speech on the first reading of this piece of legislation, the amount paid out in rebates has been $579 million, $13.5 million to administer the scheme, while only $290 million has been received from charges, leaving a hole of $302.5 million for taxpayers\u2014hard-working taxpayers\u2014to foot the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI ask the members opposite when they make their next speeches: what would their plan be if they were to keep this? Would they be increasing the taxes even further on utes? Is that the option they\u2019d be taking? Is that the option they\u2019d be picking? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a3fa4babb6d4dae8e8c865edc946f05\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2e0c3213af64ad1987da3e0477679bf\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Would they say, \u201COh no, we\u2019re going to\u201D\u2014the Greens say yes. The Greens are very keen on more taxes on utes. They want to tax our farmers and tradies. They hate the farmers. The Greenies hate the farmers. They want our farmers gone. That is exactly what the Green Party wants. They hate our farmers here in New Zealand. They hate the productive part of our economy, which is absolutely appalling. On this side of the House, we back our farmers in New Zealand. That\u2019s why we\u2019re passing a range of policies to help support our farmers here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo what they\u2019d do\u2014well, the Greens, they\u2019d increase the ute tax. They think, what, $10,000, $20,000 for a ute tax? They\u2019d probably go higher. The Labour Party\u2014would they reduce the electric vehicle subsidy, which would make the scheme more ineffective, or would they just say, \u201CWe\u2019ll put more taxpayer funding into it\u201D? Well, I\u2019m sorry to tell the Labour Party, but they have left the Government books in an absolute mess. But their answer would be to borrow more money\u2014borrow more money from future generations to subsidise people who can already afford to buy these cars and who will continue to buy these cars and who don\u2019t need a subsidy. That would be the choice that the Labour Party would be facing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we see this as a fiscally irresponsible scheme. It is inequitable for our farmers, our tradies, people with larger families needing to buy larger cars to be able to transport their children to and from school and do the things that they need to do. We actually think this scheme needs to go, and that is what this piece of legislation does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut we\u2019re also confident that there will continue to be an increased uptake of electric vehicles in New Zealand, and that is because car manufacturers around the world are switching from internal combustion engine vehicles to electric vehicles and hybrids and other low-emission technology. Battery technology is continuing to advance rapidly and at pace, and those are the types of vehicles which will be imported to New Zealand, and the choices will be made available to New Zealanders. We are confident that that uptake will continue, and we will support that uptake by continuing to invest in the electric vehicle charging network, which New Zealanders need to have the confidence to be able to buy these vehicles, to be able to get past the range anxiety, which is one of the biggest inhibitors for people actually purchasing an electric vehicle. And we\u2019re going to supercharge that investment by supporting the private sector through deregulation where there is regulation with barriers which get in the way, by providing support to ensure that we can actually get that supercharging going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThat is what the role of Government is to do: invest in the infrastructure that we need rather than just in subsidies and cash being paid out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfd446e5afe54a72bceb7affe6fc5f58\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Ideology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f005d14cf0a48b89a0297e210ed97ab\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which is the ideological approach\u2014the failed ideological approach\u2014of the former Government on the other side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo this bill gives effect to what was committed to by the National Party, ACT Party, and New Zealand First Party in our coalition agreements. I acknowledge all of the coalition partners in their support and I thank them for their support so far in the passage through this House and their continued support as we progress this legislation through the House, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022862a2f0dfd9c4c29b6fd35d7ba2f2cd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022862a2f0dfd9c4c29b6fd35d7ba2f2cd4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002217da3b05d5bf4f7fb1ffd9bc58e66bbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217da3b05d5bf4f7fb1ffd9bc58e66bbf\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker. Well, that was a concession speech if ever I heard one\u2014that was a concession speech if ever I heard one. In my first contribution on this bill I talked about the leadership aspirations of the Minister of Transport. They are well and truly down the road, gone, because that was just a pathetic attempt from the Hon Simeon Brown to justify this Government\u2019s attempt to move in this particular direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe had heard that this is about going back to the future. It is back to the future. This is a Government, whether it be a three-headed monster or something else, that loves to use the word \u201Cback\u201D\u2014backwards-focused; back whatever. This is something that clearly is back to the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EAgain, let\u2019s also remind ourselves that it comes at a time when the House again is sitting in urgency to progress legislation that this new Government thinks\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227851df67fa254c0984d8c2c96c2f2381\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Important legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b103987ff7a24b81b9dbe865164dfaf7\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, I note that Mr McCallum was objecting whilst he was on his feet. I appreciate that the member may not have been here for some time, but it\u2019s a well-established convention that members need to be in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022276805bdeaed4b7d905a3626162bdf3a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t see that. If that is the case, you\u2019ll stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223db44bb726974e9c8a2e810c6bb2aec1\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: I stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c18e719708b8404ba18f5962d7eb57a5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: And just a reminder, Mr Utikere is dead right. You cannot improve your position to improve your voice contribution, and you certainly cannot walk around like you\u2019re in a pub on a Friday night yelling. So, thank you. Mr Utikere, you can\u2014did you stop the clock for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022258fb325d1474eb2b4a8f126a1e7823b\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The House is in urgency to progress legislation that this new Government clearly thinks is a priority because it sits within their 100-day plan. But it\u2019s very clear that this piece of legislation is a roll-back on climate. It is an absolute roll-back on climate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, the House is under urgency. That\u2019s one thing. But the other is that this bill has not had the normal process of going through a select committee, and the Minister of Transport should hang his head in shame that members of the community, the hard-working folk around this country, organisations and other groups within and outside of the sector, have not had an opportunity to submit on this particular bill. The select committee process is often set aside for things that are extremely rare, and, actually, I will point out that there is not even a truncated select committee process. Members will know that, in terms of the history of the House, there have been opportunities to have\u2014even if it\u2019s a one-day select committee process, it still provides the opportunity for organisations and individuals, even if it was selected individuals or organisations that would be asked to submit. So the Minister of Transport has clearly indicated that he is not interested in listening to the hard-working folk of this country; he is not interested in listening to the various organisations that exist within the sector; that he knows best. And I think Kiwis around the country will judge for themselves whether they think the Minister of Transport, who is new in the role, is on to a good thing. If that is how he intends to go about engaging with communities of interest in his portfolio, it is an absolute shambles and a shame that that is the approach that he has chosen to take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also interesting that this clearly is a Government that is very prepared to simply pull up the ladder from under them after households, like the Prime Minister\u2019s household, have benefited from this very scheme that has been put in place. I also think that many would think about whether or not it is appropriate for that to be the case; perhaps there are some members who have a conflict of interest in relation to this within the Government. You know, it\u2019s a sad day when this House has to set aside other time to spend focusing on removing the very rebate that the Prime Minister\u2019s household himself has benefited from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe hear from members opposite that it\u2019s about, actually, not benefiting the rich. It\u2019s not about that at all; it\u2019s about making sure that it\u2019s a fair process. So members opposite I think will be interested to see that when we move into committee stage, it\u2019s the intention of this side of the House to put forward some amendments that might provide an opportunity for members to reflect on, indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESince we haven\u2019t had an opportunity to have this bill go to select committee, I think it\u2019s important that the House, whether it\u2019s in committee or not, is aware of some of the concerns and some of the feedback that certainly I have been made aware of since this announcement was made to progress this piece of legislation. I\u2019m sure that other members will do the same. You know, we\u2019ve heard from a number already, including my colleague the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, who simply said that this has been, when we reflect on this particular scheme, a very good investment in reducing our emissions. And it\u2019s very clear that the Government doesn\u2019t have alternative plans. I look forward, actually, to putting questions to the Minister around exactly that: what are the alternative plans that they seek to put in place to, effectively, meet the needs of climate change to reduce our emissions as we are required to do in terms of our global responsibilities? I think that is something, not just as a global citizen, that many people around Aotearoa New Zealand would expect that the Government turns its mind to. So I look forward to hearing from the Minister around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also very clear that this is a scheme that clearly has encouraged people to reflect, I guess, on their personal responsibility, but also those in corporate sectors to think about what change they can take, what change they can make, and this is clearly a scheme for many that has been a positive opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EYesterday, alongside others, I\u2019m sure, I received some information from a number of organisations. One I just want to start with, and that\u2019s from Drive Electric, which is a not-for-profit organisation\u2014I\u2019m sure this was circulated to other members as well. But they start out by indicating that there is a compelling case for electric vehicle (EV) incentives, and just at the very start of what they\u2019d sent through, \u201CNew research shows that the new Government\u2019s policy to remove the Clean Car Discount and weaken the Clean Car Standard could mean between 100,000 and 350,000 fewer electric cars on New Zealand roads by 2030\u201D\u2014fewer cars by 2030\u2014\u201Cand increasing emissions by between 900 and 3,000 kilotonnes.\u201D But, also, that it will \u201Calso increase costs to the economy by between $900 million and $3.5 billion\u201D\u2014that\u2019s right; between $900 million and $3.5 billion, mainly due to an increase in importing fossil fuels. So this is a Government that is wanting to pursue this with that particular screenshot as the background to it, that particular cost to our economy, that particular cost to the globe as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThey also, in terms of a further document that they sent through, which relates to some work by Concept Consulting, indicate that if policies and initiatives such as this are actually removed, then there is absolutely an expectation that the EV percentage of the sales mix to fall to similar levels to actually prior to the incentive coming in, prior to this scheme coming into place. That\u2019s really quite an indictment on the Minister of Transport wanting to lead this piece of work for communities and for NGOs, for businesses, for individuals, for families as well, because we don\u2019t have the select committee process. I\u2019ve had a number of constituents from my own constituency of Palmerston North, but also around the country, who have indicated that, actually, this does make the difference for them in making the choice between whether they are actually able to transition to a lower-emission household or not. For many families, this is a big thing in terms of encouragement to making that decision easier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EOne of my constituents said for them, they\u2019re going to have to save up a little bit longer. That means that the closer they are to a lower emissions future for them, their household, and their family is just one step further away as a result of this Government wanting to take limited to no action on climate change. And let\u2019s also be very clear that this is happening at a time where the globe is just coming off the end of COP28, where the focus is on the need to take responsibility. What sort of sad particular view does that send from our country where our Government is saying that an incentive that encourages people to take the choice for them and their wh\u0101nau, which is an easier choice, is actually no longer going to be an option? It is no longer going to be an option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo, on this side of the House, we will be focused over the coming hours on, yes, scrutinising this bill. Our fundamental view is that this is a bad piece of legislation, but, none the less, we will be putting questions to the Minister because he is accountable to this House in terms of explaining why it is that he has brought this dire piece of legislation at this time, in urgency, without any reference to a select committee process, without any opportunity for our wider community to submit and for their views to be heard. So it will be dependent on members of this House to reflect and share with others the views that have been articulated to them, because there is no other option for the community to participate in this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThey say, \u201CPeople voted\u201D. Well, should we talk about smoke-free legislation? You know, where do you stand on that? Oh, they\u2019re all silent now, aren\u2019t they? All silent waiting for the smoko break, probably. Well, I tell you this: it\u2019s one thing to say that we went to an election and they told us this; well, there are many things that this Government went to the election on and they have failed to deliver, because they are a Government that has not been able to deliver. They took their time trying to actually form one and now they\u2019re in a sad state of affairs\u2014many of us will continue to hold this Government to account. We oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00226199586d403e41b58e3d497635c7d349\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226199586d403e41b58e3d497635c7d349\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E I reiterate that we are all in this together. We have to tackle the climate crisis together, and that requires us to look at the system. It\u2019s very easy in politics to frame everything in an individual way and talk about individuals, but we have to look at the system and how we can tweak the system to get better outcomes for all New Zealanders in a way that is fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why I would ask members in the Government benches to listen carefully to my speech. Because I\u2019m going to lay out the rationale for the Clean Car Discount and the evidence that it actually was reducing emissions in a fair way; that it is popular and supported by New Zealanders despite the misinformation attack ads perpetuated by the National Party and the ACT Party over two years, mischaracterising the policy so that New Zealanders didn\u2019t get the full opportunity to understand just how beneficial this policy was to our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut no matter what, despite the repeal today, we\u2019ve saved 2 megatonnes of carbon, we\u2019ve saved 70 million litres of petrol a year, there is $100 million a year that New Zealand is spending less on imported oil, and it would have been more if they\u2019d carried on the policy. So this is a policy that not only reduces emissions, it saves New Zealand money as a country, it reduces our reliance on imported fossil fuel, and it did something that was considered impossible before it was brought in: our average carbon emissions per kilometre of the new vehicles coming into our fleet\u2014this is not the existing fleet. We have a massive existing fleet of over 4 million vehicles that was not affected by this policy; over 400,000 to 500,000 utes, probably, that were not affected by the policy. But the new vehicles coming into New Zealand emitted 186 grams per kilometre on average before this policy, and within two years the average was down to 121 grams per kilometre. That\u2019s on par with European countries that had been far more advanced than we were at having fuel economy standards, at having price incentives like the Clean Car Discount, and that was a 35 percent reduction. So not only did we reduce carbon emissions and pollution but we reduced the amount of money we were paying to power our vehicles, collectively, as a country. That\u2019s a direct productivity and economic benefit to \u201CNew Zealand Inc\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s why it\u2019s a really good policy. The numbers don\u2019t lie, and I know that this graph isn\u2019t as big as I would like, but what you can see is the impact of the policy; that we\u2019re importing fewer fossil fuel vehicles than we were importing low-emissions vehicles\u2014not just electric, but low-emission. So one of the problems that New Zealand was facing\u2014and this is a problem for business and for households in New Zealand\u2014was that we had no fuel economy standards. We\u2019re one of only three countries in the OECD to not have fuel economy standards\u2014along with Australia and Russia\u2014and we had no price incentive at the point of purchase. So the vehicle industry was not prioritising low-emissions vehicles to our market, so New Zealanders didn\u2019t even have the choice. There was, for example, more fuel-efficient utes on the market in the UK that were not available in New Zealand before this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo this isn\u2019t just about influencing the choice that New Zealanders make when they go to purchase a vehicle\u2014and by the way, over 50 percent of all brand new vehicles purchased in New Zealand are purchased by businesses, not by households. The vast majority of households, and I would tell you: there is not a single low-income household in New Zealand buying a brand new vehicle in New Zealand. So the entire market for new to New Zealand vehicles is wealthier than average as individual households or as businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo what the price incentive did is it let the vehicle manufacturers and vendors prioritise low-emissions vehicles to our market, and I have an anecdote about this. So my friends, in 2021, wanted to buy an EV. They were talking to Hyundai. They said, \u201CWe want the new Ioniq.\u201D and they were told they were going to have to wait at least six months to get one. The day after the Clean Car Discount was announced, they said, \u201CWe can have it within four weeks.\u201D So this policy, the Clean Car Discount, changed the market of vehicles that were available to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe highest-emitting vehicles are the most profitable for the vehicle manufacturers\u2014that\u2019s why they like to prioritise high-emitting vehicles and that\u2019s why they spend most of their money advertising SUVs and utes as lifestyle vehicles, not work vehicles. They advertise them as lifestyle vehicles and they try to sell as many as possible because they make more profit off that. But that\u2019s why you need fuel economy standards and you need the price incentive at the point of purchase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo this number doesn\u2019t lie, OK? This number doesn\u2019t lie. If the new National-ACT Government actually has any way of achieving the carbon budgets that they\u2019ve signed up to, they are now going to have to rely on increasing the price of fuel. Now, that affects not just the vehicles coming into New Zealand\u2014it really doesn\u2019t affect the vehicles coming into New Zealand\u2014but it affects every single person using a fossil fuel - powered vehicle in the country. So now you\u2019re saying, \u201COh, we need to reduce emissions, we have to put up the carbon price in the ETS.\u201D People have no choice but to pay more or drive less. So that\u2019s why trying to do it through the ETS isn\u2019t a good idea: because now the farmers are going to have to pay more for fuel because we haven\u2019t imported more zero-emissions vehicles to reduce emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo I know maths is hard for the National Party\u2014that is obvious\u2014but the maths says that you are going to make it easier for farmers and easier for those tradies who need to drive utes to do their job and not be affected by the high price of fuel if you have a policy like the Clean Car Discount, which results in more zero- and low-emissions vehicles being brought into the country. That is the truth, and the policy is fair. We have polling that shows, despite the misinformation attack ads that have been out there waging a culture war instead of trying to constructively solve a problem that affects everyone, that will affect our farmers probably more than anyone else\u2014the climate crisis is going to affect our farmers. It has already affected our farmers. It has already affected our rural areas: billions of dollars in damage because of storms that are directly caused by human-caused climate change, and those are going to keep flowing in. The world is looking to us, New Zealand, just like every other country to pull our weight and do our bit, and we are capable of doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWhen I presented this policy to the imported vehicle association, the VIA, I talked to them about how my grandfather went to World War II\u2014and I\u2019m sure many of your family members did as well, and they made a huge sacrifice to do the right thing. When it comes to the climate crisis\u2014something that is affecting the whole world\u2014we will all have to make changes. The question is: are we willing to do our bit? And from the National and ACT parties, the New Zealand First Party, the answer is, \u201CNo, we\u2019re not going to do our bit. We\u2019re going to wage a culture war rather than constructively looking at practical solutions that will actually achieve the outcomes we want, that will improve productivity, that will reduce cost.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe reality is they\u2019re either not going to make any attempt whatsoever to meet our carbon budgets, and therefore we\u2019re not going to play our part on the world stage and we\u2019re going to be penalised in our free-trade agreements where we\u2019ve committed to those targets; or they\u2019re going to have to put up the carbon price so much that everyday New Zealanders, when they go out to try and drive around because they don\u2019t have more fuel-efficient vehicles because we\u2019ve imported hundreds of thousands fewer electric vehicles as a result of repealing this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245d16a4aaa4345289f2f446afc178a04\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t had enough coffee to understand this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea39c9ce353e47ffaad9afdb9d1f43e6\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014they\u2019re going to have to pay more to drive around the country. Because you\u2019re relying only on the ETS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESimon Court very accurately says he can\u2019t understand, and I can see members opposite are having a difficult time following me because it is a little bit complex. But that\u2019s why it\u2019s so important for New Zealanders. It\u2019s our responsibility\u2014it\u2019s the responsibility of Government\u2014to do the work, to look at the practical solutions, to look at the system and say, \u201CWhat is going to reduce the average emissions coming from new vehicles imported to New Zealand?\u201D The answer is a combination of fuel economy standards and a price incentive at the point of purchase\u2014exactly what this Clean Car Discount was. The Clean Car Discount was a huge success, and this Government will never take that away from the Greens or from New Zealand: that we saved 2 megatonnes of carbon through this policy; that we kicked off a massive increase in the market for zero-emissions vehicles, for electric vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut the truth is that they are going to slow down progress now. They\u2019re going to slow down progress, and that means it\u2019s going to be more expensive later, it\u2019s going to be harder for New Zealanders to access second-hand electric vehicles, because without the price incentive, we\u2019re going to import fewer electric vehicles, which means there\u2019s less vehicles in the second-hand fleet for New Zealanders to access. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIt will be worse for farmers because they\u2019re going to have to spend more money on their utes when the carbon price goes up, and they\u2019re going to be hit again and again by storms and our fair-trade\u2014sorry, free-trade agreements; I wish we had fair-trade agreements. In our free-trade agreement with the EU, we\u2019re going to be penalised. Our farmers are going to be penalised because we\u2019re going to be seen to be pariahs on the world stage, and not doing our bit when we could have done something that was good for the economy, that was good for the climate, and that was fair. That is the reality of this National - ACT - New Zealand First dinosaur Government taking us back into the dark ages with their culture wars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022d250b75b60a44466856d88b8975f1fab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d250b75b60a44466856d88b8975f1fab\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to invite that member, Julie Anne Genter, to nominate what kind of dinosaur she thinks I am. Some days I come to work, I fancy myself as a pterodactyl, soaring high above the forests of ancient New Zealand. But today, I feel like a T. rex, smashing and stomping\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022106d108e3b4547a8a84e961e61d7b36d\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Dinosaurs are real and right there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f2863d18e41478ca5c5170b309fa326\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014stupid policy passed by the previous Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7274bdb14704c2d87dc6fe510e91580\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Genter\u2014Ms Genter. Just\u2014hold on, stop the clock. Return to your seat, stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f38384f52f5a45368913870f37b7b828\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212fc14a1b645436d8c9642cfbe23284b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No. Sit down\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed573d47d1644bc2ba00544760fa3d23\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m leaving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279f8663f044e4b4a80886aab753290e0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Then stand up. Now, withdraw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdb93aabba7344aeb2d0f9a7d459e852\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022087e3b0dbd424c1d925c93558f914162\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Please do not yell as you\u2019re leaving the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022811530ffacf7437e874559747efd3432\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, that\u2019s what happens when you mess with the T. rex or the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, to those New Zealanders listening to Parliament or watching on Parliament TV today, we are proud, in the ACT Party, as part of the coalition Government, that the National-ACT coalition agreement commitment to repeal the ute tax will happen before Christmas. It is on the 100-day plan; we\u2019re going to get it done. We\u2019re just a few weeks into Parliament and we\u2019re already making a significant difference in New Zealanders\u2019 lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, what we\u2019ve heard from the Opposition\u2014that previous group of political parties that passed the ute tax bill\u2014is that this bill will lead to some kind of climate catastrophe, that our emissions will go through the roof, and that only with this policy would New Zealand\u2019s transport emissions be reduced. Well, it ignores one basic fact. The previous speaker, Julie Anne Genter, could not explain why this policy was necessary; she gave an overly complicated description of why it was necessary and how it would work. There\u2019s a much simpler solution: the emissions trading scheme. Every single vehicle that fills up with petrol or diesel in New Zealand pays for their emissions under the emissions trading scheme\u2014somewhere between $9 or $10, maybe $12, for a 50-litre tank of petrol or diesel. That is an incentive to reduce fuel and move to a more efficient vehicle. Now, that is the most simple solution available to New Zealand consumers and businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThis policy, the clean vehicle discount, or ute tax, was completely unnecessary. It ignored the trade-offs that were obvious to the ACT Party when we were in Opposition proposing that this bill wasn\u2019t necessary. The trade-offs? A $300 million deficit, now, between the revenue collected under the scheme and what was paid out to people to subsidise them to buy electric vehicles. That $300 million deficit is a terrible trade-off. We have all kinds of infrastructure in New Zealand desperate for investment, and yet the previous Government chose instead to invest taxpayer money into supplying electric vehicles to New Zealand\u2019s wealthiest people, as the former speaker, Julie Anne Genter, pointed out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re pleased that this bill will repeal the ute tax, and we look forward to stopping the transfer of wealth from consumers and taxpayers to others who don\u2019t need it, and restoring sensible, practical, public policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022b373d2af1fd341c785a7ed372485a87c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b373d2af1fd341c785a7ed372485a87c\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. New Zealand First continues to support the repeal of the clean vehicle discount scheme. May I just endorse the fine speech that we\u2019ve heard from Mr Court\u2014one of the more brave speeches I\u2019ve heard. Starting out with an anecdote about being a dinosaur, he did well to pull that one round.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe last point that he made, and that\u2019s been introduced to me since the first reading, is the $302 million fiscal hole that this scheme was running into. This is a time when we\u2019ve got a $3.4 billion Budget deficit and a huge infrastructure crisis, but yet the Labour Government chose to subsidise Teslas\u2014absolutely unbelievable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWhere I would take issue with Julie Anne Genter is she talked about how we need tweaking solutions\u2014well, this is kind of what that was. We actually don\u2019t; we need step changes in decarbonising. This is why the electrify New Zealand programme\u2014that big picture stuff to massively scale-up our generation of renewable energy, wind, solar, geothermal, and hydro. If you\u2019d listened to Minister Jones yesterday or the day before, you would have heard about the new fast-track planning legislation which is going to make this stuff happen. We\u2019ve lost all ability to build things in this country, and this Government is going to turn that around. We are going to build stuff, and this piece of legislation will do far more than taxing tradies and farmers who might want a ute, or low-income families that may want a people mover. I cannot believe how out of touch the Labour Party is with their core working-class base.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIn fact, I will give an exception, Mr Speaker, to your good self. I had the pleasure of accompanying you, recently, to your electorate and going to the Johnsonville working men\u2019s club, where you were well received by your\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3592701983546168109a45d26997cde\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t bring the Speaker into these debates, do we, Mr Patterson, as an experienced member?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260b9f12e5a83497fa2c62a21eaf099a6\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies, Mr Speaker. I accompanied the member from \u014Ch\u0101riu into his electorate, where he was well received. In the car park, I did not see Teslas; I saw utes. We did talk to tradies. The president of the club is a painter and decorator. Those are the people that you are punishing. It\u2019s no wonder that that the member from \u014Ch\u0101riu was one of the few Labour MPs to retain an electorate seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe have committed to putting some certainty around the emissions trading scheme, which the Labour Government tinkered with to the point of absolutely trashing it\u2014against James Shaw\u2019s recommendations. And we have sent clear signals to the market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re doing other things, too, in the macro. Low-methane genetics and blue carbon have the ability to solve a lot of our problems. We\u2019re doing this sensibly, not with nanny State micro-managing solutions that disadvantage some members of our public over others. So New Zealand First continue to support the introduction of this bill. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e45d17f52c04a15b60dea53f1007d6e\u0022\u003EDarleen Tana\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213b114588633458ea5be90be6a3e0977\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly. Now, I\u2019m going to have to consult my list here, unless you offer me your name\u2014it might be easier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d89a5b33a434e0995ba85d0cb3e3f50\u0022\u003EDarleen Tana\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m Darleen Tana for the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229811ea11b4bc4379b5de5854105e1c9d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Darleen Tama.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0e1f2b325944065b767725852c3189a\u0022\u003EDarleen Tana\u003C/span\u003E: Tana\u2014as in ton of awesome. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2f09016372c4fe88dbceeac5d3f04ac\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Go ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022 data-id=\u0022270ab400259644c5a12a53f331186c08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022270ab400259644c5a12a53f331186c08\u0022\u003EDARLEEN TANA (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and I thank the Whare for this chance to take this call. I stand in opposition to the repeal of the Clean Car Discount scheme, and I stand on the basic tenets of\u2014well, firstly, actually, New Zealanders want to engage in their personal responsibility to significantly reduce their carbon emissions, and, frankly, if it ain\u2019t broke, then don\u2019t fix it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EHaving a look at the submissions that came in on the original legislation, one thing stood out for me. It was recognition amongst the submissions that countries and car manufacturers around the world are all doing their thing, and we need to protect ourselves from being a dumping ground from receiving the dirtiest cars or the dirtiest vehicles. I am a business person too. I like things to be efficient. I like a good business case, all right? When I had a look at this, what I saw was that\u2014in terms of efficiency and performance\u2014when we have the combination of the Clean Car Discount and the Clean Car Standard and applied them at the level of the supply into the country, because we gave the market the very clear dual signalling, we saw the vehicle importers encouraged to bring a greater choice of electric vehicles into the New Zealand market. We saw them coming in faster, just as the Hon Julie Anne Genter referred to earlier. So for me, that\u2019s a win for the people in exercising their personal responsibility, and with two megatonnes of carbon dioxide saving, it\u2019s a win for the planet as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EWhen I come to the matter of costs, I\u2019ve heard the k\u014Drero from that side of the House that a loss or a fiscal hole of $300 million is there, and this is the reason why they are pulling the plug. The clean car rebates and fee scheme was designed to be reviewed and adjusted regularly, so that the fees could generate enough revenue to cover such costs. What I\u2019ve also observed is that there was actually an implementation delay in the period between when rebates were granted and when the fees were applied. That\u2019s an implementation issue. The scheme is not broke. It just requires that that side of the House read the user manual and use it as per design. Fiscal neutrality was designed over a 10-year period, and here we are, not even 18 months before they are withdrawing early.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EI just want to also offer a perspective. In France, they introduced rebate 20 years ago. It was costing around \u20AC2,000-3,000, and that\u2019s evolved to \u20AC30,000 between 2008 and 2025, so over a 20-year period. The largest fee here in New Zealand is $6,900 on the most polluting vehicles in New Zealand, which, let us be clear, only the rich fullas can really understand at a retail of around $50-60,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EFrankly, if the Government is truly concerned about the workers in this country, then maybe, just maybe, you might want to consider actually implementing higher corporate taxes, or introducing a capital gains tax. Now I hear that the Government is wanting to put everything back into the emissions trading scheme. But come on. Members on that side of the House: truly, we know this will not do anything or send any signals to the market. What it will do, though, is impose further costs on to the oil suppliers who will pass that on to the average people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard about blunt mechanisms a lot in the last couple of days, but jeez, this takes the cake. We are in a climate crisis. Two megatonnes of carbon dioxide is nothing to smirk at. We need fuel economy standards and pricing incentives at the supply end to move us forward. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0ffbe55d5c7454cb117b2655b672a21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0ffbe55d5c7454cb117b2655b672a21\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise again to support this great change today from our transport Minister. January 1st is going to be a great day for those of us who need to buy utes to run our businesses. It\u2019s a day we can finally go into the local dealer and purchase a ute that we need so we can help drive New Zealand\u2019s productivity and, therefore, get on with life without the restrictions of the previous legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve noticed with interest the amount of attacks that have been sent on the farming sector about our commitment to emissions reduction. Well, I\u2019ll just point a couple of things out that a few people on the other side of the House might not be aware of, one of which is that Fonterra recently announced that we\u2019re going to have a 30 percent reduction in our carbon intensity on-farm emissions by 2030. That is our goal. And Nestl\u00E9, one of our biggest customers, are very happy with that. We understand our obligations. We\u2019re doing our bit. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022387c2123523443aab4ff02f7a1a439f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022387c2123523443aab4ff02f7a1a439f7\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Well, this certainly is an interesting debate and I\u2019m very much looking forward to the committee stage where we get to ask the Minister some very detailed questions, because there are a lot of questions that we have on this side of the House. But what we do know is that this is yet another piece of legislation that this Government is putting up which is about dragging New Zealand backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve heard speakers in this debate ask why we need this. Well, I think it shows something when members on the Government benches are asking why we need it. So let\u2019s go back to the very basics. New Zealand has signed up to something called a nationally determined contribution (NDC) in terms of our climate change targets. This is something that was agreed by the John Key Government. In order to reach that NDC, when we came into Government, we needed to put together a plan because there was no plan of how to reach our nationally determined contribution. What that resulted in was multi-partisan agreement on an approach to climate change, which was that we would have carbon budgets and that we would have emission reduction plans sector by sector that would show what work that sector had to do to reach New Zealand\u2019s targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, transport has some work to do. Transport is responsible for a large number of emissions and, therefore, there are a number of emissions reductions that are needed. Light vehicles are a critical part of the contributions to our vehicle emissions. In order to do that, people either need to stop travelling in cars and mode shift or they need to switch the kind of cars they are driving and that is to electric cars. In order to do that and to get the kind of uptake that is required\u2014and let\u2019s be very clear, because, Madam Speaker, this is a debate about specifics and I am yet to hear a member on the Government benches venture into the realm of specifics and tell us what they are going to do to substitute in the emissions reduction plan (ERP). There is a legislative requirement to do that, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe ERP sets out the target to reduce transport emissions by 41 percent from 2019 levels by 2035. And the ERP also sets a further target to increase zero-emission vehicles to 30 percent of the light fleet by 2035. Now, if there is not to be a Clean Car Discount, how are we going to achieve that? We have heard from Government members that the emissions trading scheme (ETS) will do that. I am looking forward to contributions that tell us at what price does the ETS have to be to drive the behavioural change that will cause the switch. Because every piece of research that has been produced has said that it currently is not enough. So I want to know from members opposite: what will the ETS price be that will be required to drive that behavioural change? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIt hasn\u2019t happened in any other jurisdiction. We have our independent Climate Change Commission, and the report released just this week tells us that there needs to be supplementary measures to the ETS in order to drive the behavioural change. They\u2019re very clear on that. So that is something that I am looking forward to us getting into the nitty-gritty and the detail. I\u2019m sure the Minister will come armed with the details, because, of course, this is a Minister that thinks he doesn\u2019t have to release the regulatory impact statement (RIS) before the legislation is passed. He\u2019s told New Zealanders they can request it under the Official Information Act and read it after the legislation is passed. So I\u2019m sure he\u2019s got the details, because a Minister that is that confident must be all over every detail of the policy, and we\u2019ll see that when it comes to committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThen the other argument we\u2019ve had is, \u201CWe\u2019ll let the ETS do it.\u201D So I\u2019m looking forward to knowing the modelled pricing of the ETS that will be required for that. He\u2019s telling us, \u201CWe\u2019ll build it and they will come.\u201D, that there will be a charging infrastructure, and this is part of the National Party commitments. There\u2019s only one thing: this is a throuple, and in the coalition agreement with the ACT Party\u2014and I read\u2014they poured some cold water on it. They haven\u2019t said they can just get on with the roll-out of the 10,000 public electric vehicle (EV) chargers by 2030 that the National Party promised in their manifesto commitment. They\u2019re saying: show us the business case\u2014show us the business case. So I look forward to the Minister telling us, when he\u2019s in the chair, what the time line is, how many there\u2019ll be, are they AC chargers, are they DC chargers, where will they be\u2014all this kind of detail. Because if this is the kind of policy we are relying on to get the kinds of upticks that I have talked about in my speech, we\u2019re going to need to see some detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThen we have heard the crocodile tears of the Government benches over the equity considerations of this policy. The problem is those members need to go and look at some detail. And again, I point those members to the very fine document released by the independent Climate Change Commission this week on advice on their second emissions budget that reports on the equity provisions of this policy. Because that was something that we thought about as a Government when we implemented it, and is the very reason that we made the Clean Car Discount apply to New Zealand new second-hand vehicles. I know, and I do represent an electorate\u2014I represent an electorate of people who would never dream usually of buying a brand new car. They buy their cars second-hand, and it is the very reason that we included New Zealand new second-hand electric vehicles within this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s put some facts into this debate, and I\u2019m going to read you what the Climate Change Commission says around the equity provisions of this. It says, \u201CThe second emissions budget presents opportunities for the Government to ensure more equitable access to EVs. Second-hand vehicles have been a major portion of imported vehicles, accounting for approximately 40 percent of light vehicles registered. For many, these vehicles are more affordable than new vehicles and have provided a critical means of transport. During the second emissions budget, supply of second-hand EVs may be constrained\u201D and goes on to say that more work needs to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI take you also to the work that was done on the previous policy, when we looked about for what we were going to do to amend the policy. It said: \u201CWhile there is evidence that wealthier New Zealanders are more likely to adopt EVs\u2014and by implication benefit from the Clean Car Discount\u2014purchase data suggests that \u2018average New Zealanders\u2019 are likely to have benefited most. To date, markedly more buyers of used-imports received rebates (56.2 percent) than buyers of new vehicles (38.5 percent). At the same time, fewer buyers of used-imports paid charges (14.7 percent) than buyers of new vehicles (39.7 percent).\u201D Unfortunately for the members on the Government benches, their claims to finally be standing up for working New Zealanders, despite cutting employment as a Reserve Bank consideration and removing fair pay agreements yesterday, fall on deaf ears when you look at the evidence, when you see how the discount has been applied, who\u2019s been benefiting from it, and who has been paying it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I think it is time, given that we\u2019ve got a Government that is so confident in itself that it\u2019s passing this under urgency\u2014no select committee process and a Minister who has the RIS locked in the safe in his office rather than releasing it to the people of New Zealand\u2014that we get down to some details on this, because details matter. And I look forward to the Government being able to answer the plethora of questions that we will put to them in the committee stage, because listening to this debate has only led me to write down more and more questions. We have a Government that is taking New Zealand backwards; it is done for no other reason than \u201CYou guys did it, therefore, we want to reverse it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ELook around the world\u2014to those on the Government benches\u2014and you will see conservative Governments around the world have implemented similar schemes. This is not something that should be about the political divide. This should be about how we as a nation meet our commitments and our targets to reduce our climate emissions. I want to see what the Government is going to do to meet that. They are scrapping\u2014and make no mistake about it\u2014one of the most successful schemes we have had to reduce our domestic emissions and they are signing New Zealand up to pay other countries to decarbonise rather than backing New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4b1bc932b2c49d3abe7997c56a49b16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4b1bc932b2c49d3abe7997c56a49b16\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Just following on from that contribution from the member Megan Woods about stating some facts, I point her to the departmental disclosure statement, which says, \u201CThe scheme has challenges that are likely to intensify the longer the scheme is in place. The main challenges of the scheme are as follows: it is difficult to make financially sustainable and self-financing: it poses ongoing equity and fairness concerns: it will become less effective over time as electric vehicle prices fall, battery technology improves, and model variety increases: it requires constant changes to its rebates and charges that impose significant costs to vehicle suppliers and consumers.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EI say to hard-working farmers, tradies, and all-round good New Zealanders who need their utes for everyday life that common sense has returned to the Government benches and help is on its way. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002288f29b96501642a998c4d92866476978\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288f29b96501642a998c4d92866476978\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is my first opportunity to speak in this 54th Parliament. I\u2019m obviously disappointed that it is on such a regressive piece of legislation, but I am delighted to congratulate you on becoming a presiding officer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, we just heard the last speaker referring to the departmental disclosure statement, and I would note there it does say under \u201CRegulatory impact statement\u201D, Cabinet has decided \u201Cto suspend the requirement for regulatory impact statements for decisions relating to 100-Day-Plan proposals (taken within the 100 days) [which] solely involve the repeal of legislation.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe know, in fact, that the departments involved in this legislation had already prepared a draft regulatory impact statement (RIS), yet we have not seen it, despite its existence. The Minister made a cynical interjection before and made cynical statements to the media that \u201COh, well, the Opposition can OIA it.\u201D Of course, the Opposition can OIA it, but the point is, and the point of why that comment is cynical, is that we are doing, in urgency, all stages of the bill. All stages. That is very different from urgency of one stage, sending a piece of legislation to select committee so that people can, even in a shortened time, make submissions on it. This is all stages. Soon we will be in the committee stage of the bill. All here on a Thursday morning when of course the date says the 12 December.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a10623663324c89966a9d80b7a61834\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Do RMA reforms ring a bell?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc8a3c05af6343e5898e10fbd583f44a\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m hearing about Resource Management Act (RMA) reform. Well, that\u2019s interesting. That is an interesting interjection, because the RMA reform had a very full submission process. In fact, when submissions were open over Christmas, there was much debate from the Opposition about how it was so unfair to have a six-week submission process that was over the Christmas break. So, of course, that was extended time and time again to enable a very good process for some very fine legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f8c5f4242a24f31a1fce62a5089689a\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: So it wasn\u2019t even truncated. It wasn\u2019t even a truncated process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db8fc0ffed78495d861409a853bcb7be\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: It was not truncated. There were periods during that large process that were in urgency, but they were stage by stage. That is totally different from this bill, which is every single stage all at once. Of course, there are arguments for doing all stages of a bill at once, if perhaps there has been a natural disaster. But even then, it is not good practice, and we should always do things like having a short submission process at the very least\u2014none of which we have here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EBut, of course, the irony is\u2014and we had the last speaker, Tom Rutherford, read out that statement from the departmental disclosure statement\u2014we don\u2019t even need to be here debating this legislation, because the legislation sets up regulations, and all that I\u2019ve heard from the other side saying so far about, \u201COh, this scheme, it needs reviews. It\u2019s not working perfectly.\u201D, that can all be done through the regulations. We will be asking the Minister questions about this in the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EGoing back to why that we had this piece of legislation in the first place\u2014this very sensible Act\u2014it is because, as the Hon Dr Megan Woods said before, we need to do things to reduce our carbon dioxide emissions. This is very specific to our carbon emissions, and you will see all through the Act and the repeal legislation that we are talking about the pollution, the pollution of the carbon dioxide from some cars, and how we cost that pollution to incentivise behaviour so that people have low-emitting vehicles. We want that, because we have signed up to international agreements. We have trade agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIf farmers are worried about the future of farming, they need to be worried about their carbon pollution and to reduce it as much as possible\u2014and for the whole country to reduce our carbon pollution as much as possible. One of the ways of doing that\u2014it is no means the only way\u2014but one of the ways of doing that is to electrify our fleet and to have these electric vehicles (EVs). And we know that because of this scheme, we have many more EVs on the road than we would have had without this scheme. And that is progress, and it\u2019s about to be taken away. Shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u00229ed5755053be40f1886ff0859befe427\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ed5755053be40f1886ff0859befe427\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise in support of this bill. Electric vehicles are a great thing for New Zealand, they\u2019re a great thing for our environment, and I\u2019m proud to drive one, but I didn\u2019t claim a discount on it. We don\u2019t need that. There are plenty of incentives to make this shift. What we don\u2019t need is this ideologically driven policy that we\u2019ve been stuck with that is punishing everyday New Zealanders\u2014that is punishing the taxpayer as they subsidise people that don\u2019t need the help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EMembers opposite have asked for some specifics. Well, let me give you some. The tradies in my electorate, in \u014Ctaki, the good people of Horowhenua and K\u0101piti\u2014they don\u2019t have another option. They don\u2019t have another option. They don\u2019t need to be forking out taxpayer dollars to support Tesla owners. The farmers that need to drive up the western faces of the Tararua Ranges, they don\u2019t have an electric option and they don\u2019t need another ute tax, and neither do the growers that are providing 30 percent of our leafy greens for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you what\u2019s happened to the cost of living crisis. You think it was bad enough before this came in\u2014we can tackle that, and we need to make sensible changes. That\u2019s why I\u2019m commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002264ae8c3a62ff47baba7852887e2d5852\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264ae8c3a62ff47baba7852887e2d5852\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I was on the Transport and Infrastructure Committee when we heard the submissions on this bill and I remember the fear of many people about what would happen as a result. The manufacturers told us that they wouldn\u2019t be able to get enough vehicles in. We were told that there wouldn\u2019t be alternatives to the kinds of vehicles available. All of those things turned out to be rubbish. We\u2019ve done good; this has been an extremely successful scheme and as a result there are less poisons flying around the electorate of Mt Albert, because there are real issues with the kinds of emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s actually one of those schemes that is neutral as to who it affects because, actually, if you\u2019ve got a really good petrol low-emissions vehicle it got the discount too. So there are all these vehicles that are going to be brought in that do harm versus vehicles that are actually not even electric but do good. Those will no longer be available to ordinary New Zealanders when they become second-hand vehicles. Now I just want to explain that for the public because they don\u2019t necessarily know what the point of the scheme is or how it works, and maybe that needs to be something that the new backbenchers in the Government understand too. This is a scheme that\u2019s not about the person who buys the vehicle in the first instance, because they\u2019re wealthy. Like, let\u2019s face it, if you can buy a ute that was new, you\u2019re not your hard-struggling tradie or your hard-struggling farmer, because it\u2019s a new vehicle, right? Actually, those people buy second-hand vehicles. So if you front-foot it with the new vehicles, what you get is the moving into the second-hand market. So about now we\u2019ll start to see those vehicles turn up in the second-hand market and be available to people much cheaper because we\u2019ve created a pipeline and that\u2019s what Government does well, right? It creates a pipeline and encouragement. This had a carrot, this had a stick, this had all the things that would work, and it did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI wonder if that\u2019s why we haven\u2019t seen the RIS. The RIS, by the way\u2014for the normal public who don\u2019t use words like \u201CRIS\u201D\u2014is a regulatory impact statement. So it looks at what the effect of the legislation would be. And this is not a situation where you wouldn\u2019t want to see one of those on repeal. It\u2019s not a situation where there is nothing to be seen. In fact, there\u2019s a lot to be seen; there\u2019s the evidence from the last year. It would be really interesting to see what\u2019s in that regulatory impact statement, because there\u2019s been a year of something people said was not going to work, and guess what! It\u2019s worked and it\u2019s worked really well and we would be able to see that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI actually think one of the best things about this bill is that we had a bill and an Act in Parliament which had regular review, which was nuanced, which allowed people to tweak it and change it as the climate changed to balance the amount that people were paying. It was a fantastic thing\u2014it\u2019s not a bad thing, that\u2019s a good thing\u2014and I think that one of the things that the new Government is finding hard to swallow is that this was something that worked. There is nothing inconsistent about this and putting chargers all around New Zealand\u2014if that ever happens\u2014because you can do both. You know, you can probably chew gum and walk at the same time, people, and you might need to learn to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s time to actually look at that RIS, isn\u2019t it? It\u2019s time, and I challenge the Government to give us that impact statement so we can have a look, because why are they so afraid that the public might see what the impact of this is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b400007b11074f13a7ee1df733f9e8bc\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What might be in it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225023fe9dd6e4e5e8d4e1b8765dbda19\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: I wonder what might be in it? I wonder what\u2019s in it. It\u2019s an interesting thing for a new Government to suppress such information, isn\u2019t it? Hot into Government and already suppressing information to the public\u2014quite shocking really, and I\u2019d be really interested in that if I was a journalist. I\u2019d be interested because it shuts down the debate in this country, it shuts down information, and it allows myth-making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, I really enjoyed the process of being involved in the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, and I enjoyed being part of the process of listening to the industry, listening to the farmers, listening to the New Zealand public on this. I really enjoyed it, but I also learnt some lessons: sometimes people do act out of fear, sometimes they act out of their own self-interest, and some people just don\u2019t like to move with the times. Some people don\u2019t like to change. So, yes, we heard that manufacturers would never be able to supply us with enough vehicles. Well, we have been able to get vehicles into this country; it was a much greater number than we expected that were bought in the time, and yet we don\u2019t seem to have a problem with the pipeline of vehicles coming in. So we\u2019re actually helping move car dealers and car manufacturers into a new greener economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe did really good here, people, and what a shame it is to see what\u2019s going on now. I hope that those people who were in the Opposition at the time and were on that committee watched and listened and learnt and at least learnt to take some of those self-interested groups with a grain of salt, because they are very convincing when they tell you that they won\u2019t be able to supply the vehicles, that it is too quick, that we should wait for the rest of the world and then do it later. All of those things are lessons that you need to learn, and I learnt during that process. I learnt what happens if you\u2019re a bit steely, if you stick to your principles and you actually wait and see and let something play out. But you allow yourself, in the legislation, the capacity to change and to get nuanced, to actually fix any problems that come up, that you\u2019re a bit humble about the way that you draft things, so you\u2019ve got some flexibility in there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI learnt a lot of good things which I intend to take into Government in the next election. I know now how to be a good Government as a result of being on committees like that. I know what works and what doesn\u2019t and it\u2019s such a shame to see a bunch of people listening to lobbyists who are self-interested and taking such a backward step for New Zealand, because what our young people want desperately is a future that involves less pollution, actually an addressing of climate change, actually some basic equity in this country. They want a grounded approach, and this is not grounded. This is way from grounded. This kind of reactionary policy and the suppression of the evidence\u2014that\u2019s the opposite of grounded. That is a Government that\u2019s running on myth. That\u2019s a Government that\u2019s running on very, very old ideas of how things run.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe have this wonderful process in New Zealand in our Government that we should be guarding jealously. We have a process in Parliament where we have select committees where we don\u2019t think we know everything when we come in here. We don\u2019t think, \u201CWe\u2019ve got it, just ignore everyone.\u201D We listen to people, we take account of people\u2019s views; it\u2019s called the select committee process. We send something\u2014we get a regulatory impact statement so we can see what our officials are telling us. We don\u2019t necessarily take on board everything that they say\u2014that\u2019s our job, we get the ultimate judgment, but we listen first. We let those groups and those voices come through and that engages the New Zealand public. You know, I go into little primary schools and I talk to the kids in those primary schools about how great our system is in New Zealand, that we actually do have a say. And if they want to write a submission on the Clean Car Discount, and some seven-year-olds probably do, then they can. They can write one of those submissions, and we as a Parliament will listen to them and we\u2019ll engage with them. And I have been so impressed with that process. But where is it today? Why is this so urgent? There are no roll-outs of other things at the moment. There is no actual positive response at the present time. That\u2019s all in the wind. But we\u2019re going to get rid of something that\u2019s working without even looking at the evidence, without sharing the evidence with the public, without engaging with the public\u2014without engaging with anyone, we\u2019re going to get rid of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b3f727fcf6a419ebb8dc51059cbad19\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: We just engaged in an election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225c39480a6a34925b77e008166ceeed3\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not engaging here, Mr van de Molen. This isn\u2019t engaging; this is the start of an engagement. Usually this would be the very first thing we would do, and then we would send things off to a select committee and then we would look at the evidence and then we would respond. And in fact, in that way, we\u2019d probably be able to work together, Mr van de Molen, instead of this approach, because that\u2019s actually the best of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0a4ae61b9f641d78b6269fb08ad46f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0a4ae61b9f641d78b6269fb08ad46f3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f477b0dbde1411eb48ab087395e41dc\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002225d37028f6114e289b91721a1af95862\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00220709b57d48fe49109021c8ebdff3210f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220709b57d48fe49109021c8ebdff3210f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker\u2014congratulations. I seek leave, notwithstanding that the House is in urgency, for there to be oral questions at 2 o\u2019clock, as has been agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00227adbdfb8ae904bad9f26f1d048391ff5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227adbdfb8ae904bad9f26f1d048391ff5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bb619462b12d4aa896116ba18821f089\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228458a07b9dd9497f811be76e64646010\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000292\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9cb131e9d824aa99890358c20a0316e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9cb131e9d824aa99890358c20a0316e\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E What a great day for this coalition Government, that promised a 100-day action plan. We just heard \u201CWhat is the urgency with this?\u201D The urgency is this was one of our big campaign promises and over a million people supported it, and to think that in the first few days of this Government we\u2019re coming out and backing businesses, small businesses, farmers, New Zealand taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe member over there, Megan Woods, asked for numbers and evidence. Well, if a $302 million deficit on taxpayers is not enough numbers, then let\u2019s have a look at this. What did the subsidy do? What did the tax do to on-farm inflation? The year that it was introduced, on-farm inflation for sheep and beef farmers rose to 16.3 percent, up from 10.2 percent, and Dairy New Zealand says on-farm inflation for the last three years has been at 33 percent. So, under Labour, inflation soared for our small businesses and farmers, and yet they just whacked on another tax, the ute tax, for good measure. Land prices are the lowest they\u2019ve been in 15 years. Fertiliser, fuel, machinery, insurances, and rates have all soared under Labour. So I\u2019m delighted to support this coalition Government\u2019s urgency on whacking this tax, axing the ute tax. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002269d6ecbf1e0249ae9a779c5d00f7504b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000295\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000296\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced Ayes 70, Noes 51.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002267c03b56985d4508a776a1595aa87a17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267c03b56985d4508a776a1595aa87a17\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for committee stage immediately. I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0cf230215564b80bad6bc9e701ff45a\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222dc8da742bf54c3f99a522789181f99e\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Land Transport Act 1998 and Land Transport Management Act 2003\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce4165c33a204d559be04a7b7d2e655d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce4165c33a204d559be04a7b7d2e655d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill. We come first to Part 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u00225e2a4c5cf808458c8b722cea1d8c3110\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e2a4c5cf808458c8b722cea1d8c3110\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chairperson. Thank you, Madam Chair. I seek leave for all provisions of the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill to be taken as one debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002260675fc22a814905b0ef7da0c8a50c57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260675fc22a814905b0ef7da0c8a50c57\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. There is objection, so we will continue with Part 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022e26f0e74a4f74acf83001ce3d5e6304a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e26f0e74a4f74acf83001ce3d5e6304a\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. This debate here on Part 1 makes amendments to the Land Transport Act 1998 and the Land Transport Management Act 2003. It repeals the definition of the \u201Cclean vehicle discount scheme\u201D, it removes the regulations imposing fees and charges for purposes of the clean vehicle discount scheme, and makes a number of other changes in relation to the repeal of those definitions. It\u2019s pretty straightforward, and I look forward to questions from members in the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d175bbc66d874e9a8e4d0f4dad3180e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d175bbc66d874e9a8e4d0f4dad3180e9\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the Minister of Transport for his opening remarks. There are a number of Amendment Papers that have been tabled, and we\u2019ll certainly be working our way through those on this side of the Chamber, but the Minister has just referred to some of the pieces of legislation that this bill seeks to amend. I note from the departmental disclosure statement, which seems to be one of the only documents that appears to accompany this bill, that it is an omnibus bill. That does come to the Parliament from time to time. But I see that it amends a number of pieces of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIn Part 1, in terms of reference to the Land Transport Act 1998, that is there, but also the Land Transport Management Act is in that part too. But the subsequent amendments that follow to the Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations of 2011, the Energy Efficiency (Vehicle Energy Economy Labelling) Regulations 2007\u2014I think it\u2019s important that we do go through these. The final one is the revocation\u2014as we understand it\u2014of the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Charges) Regulations 2022. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is whether he is comfortable with the reference to those pieces of legislation, whether they be primary or secondary, and whether there may be other pieces of legislation that may subsequently require amendment. The genesis of my question is really around the fact that there are implications for the position of our country when it comes to climate change and whether or not there are other pieces of legislation that the Minister might be aware of that might require subsequent amendment, and, if so, what they are\u2014if he is aware of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other is just in relation to whether or not he is satisfied with clause 5, which, it seems to me, is the crux of it in terms of the repeal of section 167A of the Land Transport Act, and whether that in its entirety is what is being sought there. It would seem to me that perhaps it is, because it\u2019s simply around the regulation-making power to impose some fees and charges purely for the purpose of the vehicle discount.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, there are a number of other questions that I certainly would appreciate the opportunity to put to the Minister. I guess my other question at this stage is around the involvement of officials doing work in relation to this piece of legislation and the drafting components behind that in light of no regulatory impact statement being made available to the House, and whether the impacts of this course of action in Part 1 have been well thought through, given that we are in urgency, and given that there may have been some aspects that perhaps the Minister was unable to turn his mind to that he may be in a position to be able to do so now with the benefit of time\u2014albeit a short period of time\u2014because, surely, there must be some consideration about some of these things not being able to be done in isolation. It may be that there is a view that they can be done in isolation, but there really needs to be some reference, I think\u2014well, I\u2019m interested in a response from the Minister about whether there needs to be a reference to some of those other components as part of the omnibus bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThen\u2014and I guess this is more related to Part 2. But it does have an impact on the Land Transport Act, which is around the resourcing requirements being foreshadowed around the potential wind-down of the particular scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002228b1b24536e84c8399e777fcd8debf87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228b1b24536e84c8399e777fcd8debf87\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is a very fundamental one for the Minister and goes to why we need any legislation at all. Of course, we could all think about what those reasons might be that we are here in the House under urgency when, of course, it is not mandatory to have these regulations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EClause 5 of the bill repeals section 167A of the Land Transport Act 1998. Now, section 167A is \u201CRegulations imposing fees and charges for purposes of clean vehicle discount scheme\u201D. Obviously, this was introduced by the previous Government. This is in context of the part of the Land Transport Act that relates to regulations. There are many different regulations processes within that legislation, so this one is specifically for the clean vehicle discount scheme, and it says, without limiting those other regulation purposes, \u201Cfor the purpose of promoting the transition of New Zealand\u2019s light vehicle fleet to zero- and low-emission vehicles and reducing vehicle carbon dioxide emissions may\u201D\u2014and I stress that word \u201Cmay\u201D\u2014 \u201Cbe made under that provision providing for fees and charges to be paid\u201D. Then it goes on and says, at subsection (3), \u201CRegulations made \u2026 may\u201D\u2014this word \u201Cmay\u201D is used again, and, at subsection (5) of section 167A, which is the one of the sections being repealed: \u201CRegulations \u2026 may be made only on the recommendation of the Minister in accordance with subsection (7).\u201D  So, again, this is the Minister\u2019s discretion. There is a lot of \u201Cmay\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThese regulations can of course be changed, and there are some constraints in subsection (7) in that \u201CThe Minister must not recommend the making of regulations unless the Minister is satisfied\u2014(a) that the fees or charges are appropriate to sustain a scheme designed to increase consumer demand for zero- and low-emission vehicles and decrease consumer demand for high-emission vehicles:\u201D\u2014a good aim, I would say, of course\u2014\u201C(b) that the imposition and level of fees or charges are appropriate, after considering\u2014(i) the variety and availability of zero- and low-emission vehicles expected to enter the New Zealand light vehicle market in the following 12 to 24 months; and (ii) the market behaviour of consumers, including the nature of any continued demand for high-emission vehicles; and (iii) international and domestic climate change ambitions\u201D\u2014that\u2019s a good word, isn\u2019t it?\u2014 \u201Cand commitments; and (iv) the anticipated impact of the fees and charges on the market; and (v) whether the estimated revenue to be received from the charges is sufficient to meet the costs and expenses of the clean vehicle discount scheme funded under \u2026 the Land Transport Management Act\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo my question is: why do we need any of this repeal legislation today? All that the amendment did at some time during the Labour Government\u2014I was not on the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, and I can\u2019t remember exactly when the process happened. But all that they did was set up, under these pieces of legislation, the ability for regulations to do this clean vehicle discount scheme. So it appears that there is no need to do any of this primary legislation and that we can just rely on the secondary legislation and the processes that the Minister can determine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002274b27c4e67f04cd8a58edcd89ed778ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274b27c4e67f04cd8a58edcd89ed778ec\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Camilla Belich. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00222e5ca46f73f949a6adcd6b3f9bfd466e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e5ca46f73f949a6adcd6b3f9bfd466e\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s Arena Williams. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022decec3c34dcb47cc80a8d51fe4430f53\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry. I\u2019m so sorry\u2014my apologies. I call Arena Williams. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a100d2b5c9de4788817f8d34dcdbf174\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m very glad to take a call, and I\u2019m happy to be confused with my excellent colleague Camilla Belich. Thank you, Madam Chair\u2014thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the Minister in the chair, the Hon Simeon Brown. Congratulations on your role, Minister. I look forward to discussing this with you. It\u2019s of importance to Manurewa, the place we both grew up in in South Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe question I have for the Minister relates to the purpose of elevating some of these decisions to primary legislation. My colleague has touched on a more general point, but I want to focus specifically on the Minister\u2019s views around making these decisions in primary legislation, and perhaps he can give us some guidance on his view around regulations within the transport sector as to whether this will be a trend of the Government to use primary legislation tools\u2014indeed, within urgency or out of urgency\u2014whereas the previous Government would have used the secondary legislation, or the regulations, to make those sorts of decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EAs the committee has heard, the legislation that this bill seeks to amend allows for the Minister to make the kinds of policy decisions which he has indicated to this House that he would like to make around the Clean Car Discount scheme within that legal framework already. It\u2019s important to give that proper consideration now because when Ministers have a legal framework set out already to make those decisions and they have been road-tested before, it gives the Government some level of comfort that those are able to be made in a sound way and that they don\u2019t expose the Minister to a level of undue risk and open up the Government to further legal challenge somewhere down the line. So it\u2019s good to follow established legal frameworks and to use the powers within primary and secondary legislation that we have and that we are used to, generally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy question is about the decision by the Minister not to issue a decision under the regulations around the use of the Clean Car Discount. As my colleague has said, why is that not being made when we have the tools within the primary legislation to do so? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI am considering putting forward a number of amendments to help the Minister to use this piece of legislation, were he wanting to use an established legal framework to do so. But I do want to hear his answers on the place of secondary legislation in his view, given that we\u2019ve also heard this Minister and the other Ministers of the Crown give us a sense of where they are going with the cutting of regulations. That is secondary legislation, often, that is things within that secondary legal framework, and so it is really useful for us to know, and the members of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee who are here\u2014excellent committee; hard-working committee\u2014would like to know if the Government is planning, in its cutting of regulations, to actually start removing more pieces of secondary legislation from the statute book in the way we are doing here. That is very significant to the transport sector, in particular, because we have a number of agencies that operate almost entirely through secondary legislation and in reference to their Ministers\u2019 decisions through those legal frameworks that have been long set out and have a long legal tradition in New Zealand. So if this is the way we\u2019re heading, we need to know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ENow, the amendments that I\u2019m considering making to Part 1 are around the functions of the agency, given that a number of the regulations to inform the way that the agency operates\u2014perhaps there are functions within this bill that we are debating today that need to be kept on the statute book somewhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo those will be my questions to the Minister, and whether he will support those amendments later. But I\u2019ll give him an opportunity to answer our questions now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022030ee96eeaab4422ad5e23c860d3b370\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022030ee96eeaab4422ad5e23c860d3b370\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to answer some of the questions which have been raised. The member Tangi Utikere asked a number of questions around whether other pieces of legislation require amendment. The answer is no. This bill includes all of the legislation that needs amending, and I note that he started talking about what\u2019s in Part 2 and I look forward to him talking about that later when we get to that stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe member Rachel Brooking asked a very good question: why do we need legislation at all? Maybe she needs to reflect on what she did for the last three years, and we\u2019re repealing a lot of the legislation that that last Government put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis piece of legislation needs to be repealed because this Government does not support the fees and charges which were put in place: the ute tax and the Clean Car Discount scheme. So we are removing the legislation off the books, and that is why we\u2019re progressing it through the House in this method. The member Arena Williams asked exactly the same question, and I give exactly the same answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002259a2a8b545df43ba878e572435df7437\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259a2a8b545df43ba878e572435df7437\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair. So just prefacing my comments on this part of the bill with a reflection on the explanatory note, where the claim is made that \u201Cit is difficult to make this scheme financially sustainable and self-financing\u201D. That is, I believe, contrary to the data which shows that since July 1, it has been fiscally neutral, and it would continue to be fiscally neutral if this scheme was carried on as it was intended, as it is by many other countries in the world who\u2019ve successfully used feebates or Clean Car Discount schemes. The goal of the scheme is to be financially sustaining over time, and you can see it in other countries that over a period of five or 10 years, there\u2019s overs and unders and it balances out over time. So the only reason it\u2019s not fiscally neutral is because the Government is repealing it before it can be fully fiscally neutral.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI have a similar question to some of the ones that have been raised, because the Minister really didn\u2019t provide a substantive answer to this question, which is: given that it was entirely possible for the Government, through regulation, to remove the fees and discounts, or adjust them in any way that they needed, including taking the fees off utes and carrying on with the rest of the scheme\u2014that would have been a possible option available to the Minister. But even just leaving it in place and having zero fees and zero discounts was also an option, without going through this legislative process to repeal that architecture. So the question for the Minister is why go down the legislative route, when through regulation you could have achieved exactly the same outcome that Minister claims to want to achieve? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe Minister wants to remove fees from utes. That was an option: you remove the fees on utes from the scheme and you could still have that financial incentive in the rest of the personal car market to ensure that New Zealanders are finding it easier to access lower-emissions vehicles and have a price incentive at the point of purchase of the vehicle, which is where it is the most effective at influencing not just the choice of the consumers but the choice of the vehicle manufacturers to prioritise certain vehicles to our market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EMy second question to the Minister is about clause 6. Clause 6 in Part 1 amends section 167B(4), which relates to the clean vehicle standard, and it says that the power set out in section\u2014oh sorry, no. Actually, it\u2019s clause 7. This is the clause\u2014clause 7\u2014that I want: \u201CRepeal section 239(4)(b)(iii).\u201D, which provides for information from the register of motor vehicles to be released to the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) for the purposes of administering rebates and charges. My only question here is whether the information on the register of motor vehicles about the tailpipe emissions will continue to be registered and publicly available\u2014I mean, I think the answer is yes. The Government has indicated that they intend to carry on with the fuel economy standards of the Clean Car Standard, and for that, obviously, there needs to be information gathered on tailpipe emissions at the point of registering vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo my question on clause 7 in Part 1, will that\u2014so it\u2019s meaning that that information is not released to the New Zealand Transport Agency, but will that information still be collected? Will it still be publicly available? I think it\u2019s of use for the people of New Zealand but also for the Government to understand what\u2019s happening with vehicle fleet in terms of the tailpipe emissions. Even if we\u2019re not providing that financial incentive at the point of purchase, we can at least see what\u2019s happening. So the question to the Minister: does clause 7 mean that we\u2019re no longer collecting and releasing that information, or is it just that it\u2019s no longer going to NZTA, and if that is the case that we\u2019re no longer collecting it or it\u2019s not publicly available, in what way or what mechanism is the Government going to fulfil the Clean Car Standard\u2014the fuel economy standard? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022055630d06814489096df0858eebc3c66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022055630d06814489096df0858eebc3c66\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. My first question is a really specific one, and it\u2019s about the quality of air. So it\u2019s not about carbon emissions changing our climate, but it\u2019s an important extra advantage of having a whole lot of vehicles that are coming in that are cleaner in our cities so that the air pollutants go down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI wondered whether the Minister had information about how much less carbon and how much less of the other toxins are going into the atmosphere in a place like Auckland. I have people in Mt Albert who live really near the motorway. They live down in Kingsland, down by the motorway, and they tend to be people who can\u2019t afford to live way up high. It\u2019s a really important thing for us to have a measure of that, and so I would like to know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had an incredibly successful scheme. Has there been any analysis of how it\u2019s affecting our cities, particularly in the valleys of those cities, because we will be paying for this in lives, in terms of the health of our children, and, in fact, ourselves\u2014all of us? So I would like to know: has there been a cost-benefit analysis on this, has there been a measure of the improvement in the air quality in those places, and have you taken it into account when you have looked at changing the scheme here, because it\u2019s been an incredibly successful scheme and we\u2019ve gone way above numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, my next question is one about equity. Has there been some sort of analysis done about the benefits once the scheme is coming through, or that has been done in terms of the maintenance of those vehicles? We\u2019re just getting to the point where some of those vehicles will be on the second-hand market, but has there been any analysis done about how much it\u2019s saving the average family if they get one of those cars? There\u2019s a whole lot of cars that people don\u2019t know about. There\u2019s been a lot of talk of Teslas, but there\u2019s actually a whole lot of cars at the lower end of the market that have been coming in. They attract the discount. Sometimes they\u2019re petrol cars. Often, they are very ordinarily named cars, like Nissan LEAFs, etc.\u2014those sorts of cars. How much benefit to a low-income family is there if they buy those kinds of cars?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EHas there been any analysis done over the sort of response from our manufacturers, because my understanding is that there were some vehicles that had been really expensive. Some of the people movers and, actually, the utes had been way more expensive, and they came down by $20,000 immediately upon our introducing the scheme, because that got those vehicles into the scheme. So if you had a vehicle that was retailing at almost $100,000, they dropped overnight. Has there been any analysis of that in terms of how it affected the price of vehicles? I\u2019d like to know those things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to know whether there has been some reflection on the open letter that was received by the Minister from Drive Electric, because my understanding is that that begged to have a meeting to talk about alternatives to dropping the scheme completely. I would like to know from the Minister: has he been in touch with that organisation, has he had communication, or have there been alternatives discussed? I heard my friend the Hon Julie Anne Genter talking about the possibility of a compromise on things like utes so that there might be an exemption scheme in place. Has that been discussed, because I presume Drive Electric would have been one of the submitters in any process through a select committee and we would have heard from them? I think they\u2019re really good people and I know that they would have worked in good faith to produce some fiscally neutral alternatives if the Minister was unimpressed with this scheme. So has that communication gone on, and, if not, why not? I\u2019d like to know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThose are some of the questions. I understand that Drive Electric have put the Minister on notice that if the scheme is removed, it could dramatically disrupt electric vehicle sales in this country. I\u2019d like to know if there\u2019s been any analysis of whether that is a likely outcome of dropping this scheme, because we don\u2019t have an electric\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9077aa13f724ed0b915e7621d95d463\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9077aa13f724ed0b915e7621d95d463\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have some very specific questions for the Minister. Given that this is a bill that is not going through the select committee process and Part 1 of the bill is the part of the bill that does disestablish the legal basis for applying a Clean Car Discount, I have a question around the intersection of this bill with the Clean Car Standard and whether it\u2019s the Minister\u2019s intention to make any changes to the Clean Car Standard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u00222b6f12f56d0e422089e0efcd9d3c5b10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b6f12f56d0e422089e0efcd9d3c5b10\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Acknowledging that we haven\u2019t had the benefit of a select committee on this and we haven\u2019t had the opportunity to hear from electric vehicle (EV) owners or aspiring EV owners or owners of second- or third-hand EVs, I really want to understand things a little bit further. I have certainly heard some concern and anxiety and fear from the dinosaurs in the house\u2014the self-proclaimed dinosaur over here. As an EV owner, I can reassure the dinosaurs that there is nothing to fear from EVs, and, in fact, they are the most exciting cars to drive, if you are into vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really interested in how youth, in particular, are going to be able to afford to move into EVs. My youngest son, with his partner, bought an EV. It cost them $5,000 to drive a Nissan LEAF, and that has saved them a fortune in petrol costs and it has saved emissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m really, really interested in how much of the fees were paid by people in urban areas for EVs, and what advice has he received regarding the proportion of fees and rebates paid by or received by rural dwellers, rural communities, and urban communities. This is really important to me, because as the Green Party spokesperson for rural communities, I work with farmers. I grew up on a farm. I live rurally. I know a lot of people who own EVs or who want to own EVs. I\u2019ve visited the electric orchard in Cromwell and been really impressed with how rural New Zealand, or the progressive parts of rural New Zealand, are trying to electrify. So I\u2019m really keen to understand, because we don\u2019t have the benefit of a select committee, what proportion of fees and rebates have been received by or paid by rural New Zealand and what proportion of fees and rebates have been received or paid by urban New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThis is really, really critical, because what we\u2019re talking about is a desire in our community. We know New Zealanders want to do the right thing. We know that rural New Zealand is looking for opportunities and innovation. We know that rural New Zealand can\u2019t afford to be hit by any more cyclones. We know that they\u2019re going to happen, and we know what the cause is. So I\u2019m really, really keen to hear how much the pain has been felt in in rural New Zealand with a very progressive, successful policy that is reducing emissions and reducing our dependence on overseas oil. This is really, really important for our rural communities, and I\u2019d like an answer, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002293aab9cf3d8d49a681750811b1fc97ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293aab9cf3d8d49a681750811b1fc97ee\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. There\u2019s been a number of questions. The Hon Julie Anne Genter asked about the scheme and talked about how we could make this somehow\u2014she talked about fiscal neutrality and suggested we should exempt utes. But I don\u2019t know whether she realised that would create an even bigger hole, and I\u2019m not sure how the member suggests that that would be paid for, other than by borrowing more money. But for the Green Party, I guess money grows on trees. On this side of the House, we actually think that people have to work for it and pay for it through taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9b8b0a00447445589c1d51793cb3b05\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chairperson. Correct me if I\u2019m wrong, but I thought that the Minister was meant to address his comments to substantial answers and not unfounded attacks on the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022507b679884ff488da6649051a111f043\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Look, the Minister will answer some questions, but as this is a very, I guess, intense debate between different views in the House, some things are going to go each way. But the Minister will continue to answer the questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022817bcc015ca44980b665e3e4856e5d9f\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The next question was around why we are using the legislative process rather than using regulations\u2014a similar question, a repeated question, from other members. On this side of the House, actually, we want this legislation off the books because we don\u2019t agree with the Government being able to tax people buying their utes or buying their cars. We actually don\u2019t agree with keeping it on and using regulations instead. So we\u2019re repealing the Act and repealing the regulation-making power. She asked a question about the tailpipe emission labels. This bill doesn\u2019t change any of those things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EHelen White asked some really good questions around cleaner air, which is a completely separate issue than what this bill deals with, and she also suggested an exemption scheme for youth. Again, there was no suggestion around how that would be funded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EMegan Woods asked about the Clean Car Standard review. As the former Minister will know, the Clean Car Standard\u2014there is a legislated review which must start by 30 June next year, which we will be undertaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe member Scott Willis: I thought they were very good questions from Scott Willis, who is very concerned about our rural communities\u2014it\u2019s not long until he\u2019ll be joining the National Party! I\u2019m advised that about roughly half of the tax which has been received has been paid for by people buying utes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002250b9fe8fb00d4e0fa7ca991af54b937d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250b9fe8fb00d4e0fa7ca991af54b937d\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. This is my first chance to congratulate you on becoming the Deputy Speaker, and it was remiss of me before not to congratulate the Minister, the Hon Simeon Brown, for becoming a Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m aware of repetition, and I\u2019ve raised this point before about the fact that we do not need primary legislation; this can all be done by regulation. I think the Minister has confirmed that the answer is yes, but that he\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc1dc08571ce4ac9903ac204de6975ba\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He hasn\u2019t\u2014he hasn\u2019t answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfc80ec8c9214520888bc79bcb2db61d\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure about that; I would like him to give a straight yes or no answer to it. But it is his preference to make the bold political call that the Government is opposed to Clean Car Discounts and that they are taking this down the primary legislative route, even though it is unnecessary, so this whole debate in urgency is unnecessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI do have a separate question, but I would also note that I look forward to hearing from Simon Court at some stage. He has had a lot to say on other members\u2019 contributions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EBut going to clause 9 of the bill, this says that Schedule 1 be amended, and I know we\u2019re not discussing Schedules at the moment, but we are discussing clause 9. It says that the new Part 7 in Schedule 1 of the bill will now be inserted in Schedule 1 of the Land Transport Act but also, in clause 9(b), it says to \u201Cmake all necessary consequential amendments.\u201D If you go to Schedule 1 of the Land Transport Act 1998, there is a whole part in it\u2014Part 4, \u201CProvisions relating to Land Transport (Clean Vehicles) Amendment Act 2022\u201D\u2014there\u2019s an interpretation clause and another clause regarding transitional provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just interested in this phrase \u201Cmake all necessary consequential amendments.\u201D, and I\u2019m aware that it is a phrase used in multiple pieces of legislation and it\u2019s not a unique phrase. But when looking at the Legislation Act, the example given is that a necessary or consequential amendment would be something like changing a heading in a section\u2014that\u2019s the sort of necessary consequential amendment that might be changed. If it\u2019s the Minister\u2019s understanding that in this case, all of Part 4 from Schedule 1 of the Land Transport Act would be removed, or if he\u2019s imagining that the necessary consequential amendments would be smaller\u2014it might be for reasons relating to the fact that they are transitional provisions. But I\u2019m interested in an answer to both those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ETo be clear: this legislation is not necessary to get rid of the Clean Car Discount\u2014a short answer on that would be grand\u2014and what the Minister\u2019s views are on the necessary consequential amendments to Schedule 1. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022f18cb3b32a2244cbbef56f7931928fe1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f18cb3b32a2244cbbef56f7931928fe1\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to seek a further response from the Minister in relation to the proportion of fees and rebates paid by or received by rural communities or urban communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI ask this because modelling showed that the forecast was that more than 90 percent of fees paid under the Clean Car Discount would be paid in urban areas, and I can attest that in urban areas we do see a lot of Ford Rangers having to climb the steep, steep curbs of supermarkets and having to buffer themselves against children on bicycles. We do see the challenges that the Ford Rangers face in our urban areas, so I\u2019m really, really keen to have a precise answer from the Minister\u2014with detail, please\u2014on the proportion of fees and rebates paid by or received by rural-dwelling people or urban-dwelling people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI am really concerned about this, because I work with rural communities who want to decarbonise. I work with farming families who are putting every effort in to decarbonising, and they want to understand the rationale behind this idiotic repealing of the most progressive, successful initiative we have seen. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002264972b2bd3294d8f8a9d83901b06fce5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264972b2bd3294d8f8a9d83901b06fce5\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to pick up on the contribution made by my colleague the Hon Rachel Brooking and the question to the Minister around an assurance\u2014that he can assure the committee that the imposition of \u201Cmake all \u2026 consequential amendments\u201D is not considered as substantial, given that the House is in urgency and I\u2019m yet to receive a response to my question around the nature of the work that officials have been undertaking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe second question: some of the contributions made in the second reading touched on some of the concerns that had been raised with members as a result of this not going through a select committee. So my question to the Minister is what specific engagement he\u2019s had with individuals or members of the sector\u2014or anyone else, for that matter\u2014and, in particular, who they are and when that stakeholder engagement had taken place in the lead-up to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u0022e96f32ba5a9b4cea962603721611a8f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e96f32ba5a9b4cea962603721611a8f8\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Congratulations on your august role, and I\u2019d also like to take the opportunity, if I may, to thank our new Minister of Transport, who I\u2019m sure is going to do a fantastic job repairing the mess of our current infrastructure in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cc5be4ad0ea4295bc21ccec0c3488f4\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And the potholes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9766baa7da4464da7ff75936a2b25e4\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: And the potholes. So I\u2019d love to ask the Minister, if I could: could the Minister explain what had been the fiscal costs of the Clean Car Discount\u2014it would be good to get some clarification on that, and I think the opposite side would appreciate that\u2014and, as laid out in clause 12, was this scheme actually sustainable at its time of implementation? Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe295e2b74b14c0f9fc75098a35bddbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe295e2b74b14c0f9fc75098a35bddbb\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E I also wanted to flag that later in this debate, on further parts of the bill, I and the Green Party have tabled two proposed amendments, and I know that other members will be proposing amendments too. So we look forward to the support from Government members as well as Opposition members in the committee on those two amendments, but I\u2019ll speak to those at the appropriate part of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut just responding and kind of coming in on the question just raised by the member from the ACT Party\u2014which I think is a great question\u2014and the comments made by the Minister earlier that if you were to exclude utes, you\u2019d have to raise more revenue, clearly the way that feebates are designed and used by successful countries all over the world is with that intention that it will be moving over time. The thing that is intended by the scheme is to, over time, narrow the range of vehicles that are eligible for rebates\u2014and that\u2019s one way of reducing the outgoing costs\u2014and to, over time, progressively increase the fees on the most polluting vehicles, particularly as it\u2019s been well-signalled in advance that alternatives are becoming available so that people can plan ahead and know that, over time, higher-emitting vehicles will face higher fees. Those fees will contribute to more electric and zero-emissions vehicles on the road, and that\u2019s how we meet our target of reducing emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s no proposal for ongoing Crown funding from the Green Party. In fact, if the Green Party had been responsible for the implementation of this legislation, we would not have had such a gap between the announcement and implementation of the rebates and the announcement and implementation of the fees. That\u2019s how it\u2019s done in other countries. It\u2019s actually commonplace that when you use these types of price mechanisms to reflect the outcomes that we all want to see as a world, which is lower carbon emissions, you bring in those price mechanisms relatively quickly so that you don\u2019t have the perverse impact of encouraging people to panic-buy high-emissions gas guzzlers or defer their purchases of electric vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo the way that it was implemented wasn\u2019t ideal, but still, over time, there was a plan, and it should be possible\u2014and I\u2019m sure the Minister has received advice on this, or I would hope the Minister had asked for advice on this\u2014to make adjustments to the scheme that would have meant that it carried on and achieved fiscal neutrality beyond the last six months. It has been fiscally neutral, but it would carry on being fiscally neutral simply by reflecting higher fees on high-emitting vehicles over time and a smaller range\u2014so rather than petrol vehicles and diesel vehicles receiving rebates, the rebates would be restricted to zero-emissions vehicles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002238b5fedd1d024b23899787b9e6ecd220\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238b5fedd1d024b23899787b9e6ecd220\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E There have been a number of questions\u2014again, a repetitive question\u2014around the repeal in clause 5 of section 167A, regarding whether legislation is required rather than regulation. One of the additional reasons why legislation is required is that removing the regulations or having a regulation of a zero fee would be likely to be found to be inconsistent with the purpose of the original legislation. Therefore, it is actually requiring the legislation to be repealed, which is what we\u2019re doing, but also, by repealing it, it also means that we don\u2019t have to have this on the legislative books at the same time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe member Tangi Utikere asked about consequential amendments and what specific engagement has occurred. There\u2019s been a range of engagements with the sector, and the reality with these things\u2014this has been well signalled. In fact, there was a thing called the election on 14 October. We signalled well in advance of the election the intention to remove the ute tax by 31 December. That was something we campaigned on, New Zealanders voted for it, and that is very specific and wide-ranging engagement with a very large sector of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThere was a very good question from the new ACT MP Cameron Luxton about the fiscal costs, and I have some answers for him, which I\u2019m sure he will probably not like to hear because I know the ACT Party very much cares about our fiscal situation as a country. But since this scheme has been put in place through to 30 November 2023, $579 million was paid out in rebates and $13.5 million was spent in costs to establish and operate the scheme, while $290 million has been received from charges. This leaves taxpayers footing the bill of $302.5 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ENow, I heard from the member the Hon Julie Anne Genter, who was talking about how we can just simply change the fees and the structure. Well, I\u2019m not sure if the member understands the impact that actually has on the car industry when they have to then have massive peaks and changes to their demand, or the significant challenges that that actually provides to their industry when you\u2019re constantly changing the rules on an industry, because they have to change stock levels and they have to quickly move stock forward or back, depending on what the rules are going to be. We saw that on 1 July this year, when there was a massive shift in terms of the fees and penalties, and if that\u2019s what the Hon Julie Anne Genter thinks is the right approach, well, that is not good for business and that is not good for our economy. But that, again, reminds us about the approach that that party takes to the important issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e99a64de7a8d47758936500d2ac9517f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e99a64de7a8d47758936500d2ac9517f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the member for his answer to my question around the Clean Car Standard. The Minister of Transport was aware that there is a legislative review of the Clean Car Standard, but the reason I put that question to the Minister, while being aware of the required legislative review, is that policy orthodoxy would dictate that if you\u2019re not going to have something like a feebate like we had in place\u2014in other jurisdictions, what we would have seen is acceleration of mechanisms such as clean car standards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo in light of the fact that we have this legislation before us today\u2014this bill\u2014to repeal the policy mechanism of using a rebate for customers, I\u2019d like to know further from the Minister whether he is thinking of bringing forward any review of the Clean Car Standard. In other jurisdictions, what we have seen as an alternative is more stringent carbon dioxide emission reduction requirements on vehicles, which in some jurisdictions, has led to a phase-out of internal combustion engine vehicles. So whether these are issues that the Minister is considering or that he has received advice on and has discussed with officials\u2014I\u2019d be interested to know that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut there\u2019s a number of other areas that I\u2019d like to know from the Minister what he has received advice on, and one is in relation to the emissions profile associated with this legislative change. Of course, this was a policy that was absolutely critical to the demonstration path in the emissions reduction plan (ERP) for the transport sector. It was doing a lot of heavy lifting, and there are going to be massive consequences to what that ERP for budgets two and three look like. So what advice has the Minister received of impacts on those demonstration paths in the ERP, but also what advice has he received on what he\u2019s going to do instead of this, because, of course, transport does have a large burden within both emissions budget 2 and emissions budget 3 in terms of the ERP?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo what is he going to do to replace those, because, of course, from 2025 to 2030, the demonstration path sees the annual light electric vehicle (EV) registration climb from 11 percent to 67 percent of the market, and reach 100 percent by 2035. So across those emissions budgets, what is he going to do to ensure that we can meet those pathways, and, if we\u2019re not, what are the policies and measures that he\u2019s thinking of putting in place to replace those? These are very large numbers. They have very large consequences for New Zealand, and they have very large consequences for whether or not we can meet our emissions reductions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also interested to know from the member what advice he has received on the impact of sales of EVs. It\u2019s not just the new EVs, which seem to be quite a focus of this debate, but some data that I read out in an earlier stage of this debate actually showed that there was a preponderance of the uptake of this scheme on new to New Zealand, second-hand vehicles, and this was a way that a lot of people, a lot of households\u2014and I know a lot of households in my electorate were actually finding cost-saving measures. They were buying second-hand, imported EVs and drastically reducing their petrol bills for their households. They were finding this was actually an important way in which they were keeping household budgets under constraint.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, I would assume the Minister would have modelling, so I\u2019d be interested in hearing from him that this would be one of the most elastic parts of the demand for these households in terms of the uptake of electric vehicles within the second-hand market, and about what he\u2019s going to do if there is not a rebate scheme to help those households. What\u2019s going to be put in its stead to ensure that we are helping those households? I know that I\u2019ve also spoken to a number of retired people in my electorate who have found a really good way to make ends meet\u2014to buy a second-hand, used EV\u2014and it\u2019s much, much less onerous on their household budgets to charge their vehicle than to fill it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe other issue that I\u2019d like to know from the Minister, in addition to any advice he might have received around sales\u2014but I\u2019d also be interested in impact on sales on new EVs, because of course this will impact the targets that we have in those emissions budgets. But I\u2019d also like to know\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u002214009fb5591d4bd297ebc03388ebd1cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214009fb5591d4bd297ebc03388ebd1cb\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4afaf8ff95a41498dc4a87a92818d3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4afaf8ff95a41498dc4a87a92818d3f\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. So I\u2019ll just list a number of things that I\u2019d like some advice on. The other thing that I would like to know from the Minister\u2014and I think that there have been some questions, but I don\u2019t think it\u2019s been addressed\u2014is the options that the Minister considered, and whether he did consider options. I understand that this was part of the manifesto commitment from his party, but I\u2019d like to know whether, when he became a Minister, other options were considered to achieve the outcome around, obviously, wanting to remove the burden in terms of fiscal neutrality. I think there\u2019s been some really sensible questions put in this committee of the whole House stage\u2014sensible questions that we would otherwise have had at a select committee that we would have been able to ask officials about\u2014about what alternative options there could have been and whether any of these were explored.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EThe other issue that I think is of vital importance to everybody is what advice the Minister has received. He\u2019s told us and members from the Government benches have told us through the course of this debate that this is not required because we have an emissions trading scheme (ETS). So what I\u2019d like to know is what advice the Minister has received on what price the ETS needs to be at to cause the behavioural change for people to switch to electric vehicles, because every piece of research we see, both here in New Zealand and internationally, is that we need to have incredibly high carbon prices to get people to switch. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo if the Minister is seeing the ETS as an alternative to repealing the scheme in this legislation that we have before us, and that is what is happening in Part 1 of this bill\u2014if the Minister, as stated, sees the ETS as an alternative, what is the price that he\u2019s had advice on that would be required? I\u2019ve seen suggestions from academics in New Zealand that we\u2019d need carbon pricing of $235 a tonne, which obviously would have a huge impact on the price of petrol. I think that it\u2019s around $60 for an average fill-up, and I\u2019ll check that figure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut given where we are in terms of our ETS pricing, if the Minister is saying that we need a price of around $235, which is what experts are saying\u2014but I\u2019d be interested if he\u2019s had any counter advice to that\u2014what plans does the Government have to get us to that ETS price, because that is not going to naturally occur. So is this work that sits alongside this legislative change to rapidly hike the ETS price in this country\u2014because I think that\u2019s something that all New Zealanders, when it comes to filling up their cars, for those that are still using combustion engines, will be very interested in, and all New Zealanders paying their power bills would also be very interested in that, because, of course, that would have a flow-on effect, as it would across the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to see that advice and, actually, probably, if possible, for it to be tabled. This is a really serious consideration we\u2019re going through, and I would also like to ask the Minister whether it was in the regulatory impact statement (RIS) that is sitting in his office\u2014which he has received from his agency and that he is on record as saying he has received from his agency\u2014and I\u2019m asking the Minister a specific question: will he release the RIS to the House so we can all have access to this modelling and this advice, because otherwise there\u2019s going to be a lot of questions through this committee stage around what was the advice and what that advice said, because we know that the Minister has the advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2ac7900e2a549d9a4713b0e1eca28a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2ac7900e2a549d9a4713b0e1eca28a4\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229b9600aeba86497bb5658150963f62a6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228dbbd862031449f2ac5a6b3d83bbd5b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228dbbd862031449f2ac5a6b3d83bbd5b3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tangi Utikere\u2019s tabled amendment to insert a new clause 8A be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e3c8c6b8c13e4c7eb66a8b1a4366e9f8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226ab4589db5de4eb2a27c2014f82f06f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ab4589db5de4eb2a27c2014f82f06f4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s tabled amendment to insert a new clause 16A is out of order as not being in the proper form of legislation. The Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendment to section 175 of the Land Transport Act 1998 is out of order as being out of scope of the bill. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002280ccc0a22dbb4305ba2350bc47d69282\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002249820af98e334c108af070eb0d0e2b34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249820af98e334c108af070eb0d0e2b34\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chairperson. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just seeking your guidance, and I appreciate that the vote on those matters has just been taken, but there were a number of proposed amendments that had been tabled that members in the committee had not had an opportunity to speak to yet, and they were seeking a call on those amendments. We\u2019ve just exercised a vote, effectively, without having an opportunity to make any comment on those. The Minister had been posed with a number of questions, many of which he sought to answer two or three times, and so I seek your guidance. Given the House is under urgency, there hasn\u2019t been a select committee process, but there have been a number of tabled amendments, and I know that in terms of my amendments I tabled prior to moving into committee, yet members have not had an opportunity to speak to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002223c06314daac49499507726a3eef914a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223c06314daac49499507726a3eef914a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, thank you for that point of order, Mr Utikere. I was finding that, actually, the calls were not as vigorous as they had been before, and we seemed to have been coming to the end of the debate. So I suggest members should be perhaps a bit more vigorous if there\u2019s an Amendment Paper that people want to speak to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022eef564c8ff294d0b8664bf09f4091a79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eef564c8ff294d0b8664bf09f4091a79\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chairperson. In light of that, I seek leave for tabled amendments to be redebated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb09c0b39b604271806f1c6abfac79d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb09c0b39b604271806f1c6abfac79d9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The leave is sought. No leave has been given for that course of action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002232f2417de08f438e97e3f8d35f4439a5\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments, repeals, and revocations concerning other enactments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00229bc53cf596fb417d9bc51388f16ddcce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bc53cf596fb417d9bc51388f16ddcce\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: So now we come to Part 2. Part 2 is the debate on clauses 18 to 26, \u201CAmendments, repeals, and revocations concerning other enactments\u201D, and Schedules 3 and 4. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022b01d2e7f3712439c91bfc4adf185a623\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b01d2e7f3712439c91bfc4adf185a623\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. This part deals, as you just said, with amendments, repeals, and revocations concerning other amendments. It makes amendments to the Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations, revokes regulations prohibiting the register of motor vehicles from issuing a certificate of registration for a vehicle if there are charges payable for a vehicle under the clean vehicle discount scheme and those charges have not been paid, because, of course, the charges under this scheme will be ceasing after its enactment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIt makes amendments to Energy Efficiency (Vehicle Energy Economy Labelling) Regulations, and, as members will see in their copy of the bill, there are some templates as to what the new labels will look like. I encourage members to take a look. There is a colour version and there\u2019s also a greyscale version in the back of the bill, so feel free to have a look at that. It also makes revocation of Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Charges) Regulations 2022. Of course, it is the intent of this legislation to not continue with charges under this scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002296b224fbbb994a969291c46b4c23e143\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296b224fbbb994a969291c46b4c23e143\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a number of questions for the Minister. One of the opportunities that was put forward previously was around a review opportunity. I note that this part relates to the administration of the scheme, in terms of how it will be executed and how it is followed through, and I wonder, in light of that, whether the Minister has any thoughts about implementing some sort of review process as part of that. The genesis of that, I think, comes from the perspective that a lot of the conversation and points that have been made are around the number of vehicles, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister is in that vein, around whether he has considered an opportunity for reviewing any aspects, whether it be Part 2 or otherwise, and whether or not the transitional provisions are also under review, as well. I mean, that review could take place in relation to the relative number of electric vehicles (EVs) that might be on the list, shall we say, and it would be interesting to get the Minister\u2019s view on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other is whether there is a reporting mechanism back to the House\u2014or it could be not to the House; it could be through some other mechanism that the Minister may think is appropriate in terms of the administration aspects of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMy other question is: whether, as part of the administration, there is an opportunity perhaps for those who had previously, maybe, applied for or received a discount or a rebate to somehow, effectively, return that. Now, it may be that there is provision within Part 2 that administratively there is some leeway, whether it be by regulation or elsewhere, that may allow for those who have, perhaps, I don\u2019t know, come from a household that might have benefited from a Tesla and might have ended up accessing the rebate, may be able to, in good faith, return that. So whether there\u2019s an opportunity\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f37dfe56372f4bfdbe8a03a782a25699\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Now, there\u2019s a noble gesture!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a0a2bb3204b4789b38bf1606b32a3c2\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: That is a very noble gesture, Mr Henare, isn\u2019t it? I really do think that some thinking in this space might allow for someone who may feel noble to be able to return money that comes back to the taxpayer, as opposed to it going into the household pockets and just sitting there permanently, regardless of how much money one might get\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022208ba5fac15845c7bcbc8689aa15790c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Like people with Teslas, do you think?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ced6d3c046854e5ead04602764553612\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Teslas. I actually think Teslas fit the criteria under the scheme\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022778b64bc5d3840c18b547bc8ff5c1357\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to voluntarily pay wealth tax\u2014voluntarily pay it? No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e8a6ad233014db8a703033dc2cad14a\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in terms of Part 2 is about administration and so that is about making sure that all of the vehicles that are appropriate to fit that particular schedule\u2014well, it would be voluntary. Well, I\u2019m interested to know from Minister Bayly, who is in the chair, as to whether or not there is some appetite from the Minister to perhaps allow for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other is around EV charging infrastructure and how that might actually sit with some of the administrative areas of focus that might need to come through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m interested to hear from the Minister around that, and, I think, particularly given that the price differentials between those that are electric vehicles and those that are not, over a quantum or a period of time, may end up heading in that particular direction. A further question will come, but perhaps those are a few to get Minister Bayly under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2de3b51b5c64eb890d7f0081605903e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2de3b51b5c64eb890d7f0081605903e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to respond to two of those questions. The first one is the reporting-back requirement that the member asked about. Because we\u2019re repealing the bill, you do not need a report back. It\u2019s self-evident that no report back is required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second question, about people who may want to apply for a rebate because they thought they were entitled to it: the requirements are that those people must apply by 31 December, and then the New Zealand Transport Agency will go through the process of processing those, and if payments are required to be made back, they will be made back; otherwise, moneys will be returned to the Crown account and used by the Crown for other good transport projects, no doubt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00226f04f702f8274387935d27b9be2a5223\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f04f702f8274387935d27b9be2a5223\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The honourable\u2014no, sorry, Tangi Utikere\u2014almost honourable; always honourable, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002287015a12bbc249da8d0771e975283628\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287015a12bbc249da8d0771e975283628\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Ha, ha! Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the Minister for the answer. There are two questions that he\u2019s responded to, but perhaps I could just provide a bit of clarity. I note that the Minister referred to a report-back opportunity. My question was not about report back; it was around whether or not a review would be signalled, which is not a requirement whether there\u2019s legislation or not. I note that the Minister is shaking his head, so I\u2019m not sure whether he doesn\u2019t like my question or whether he\u2019s answering it, but we\u2019ll perhaps wait to hear in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other is around the administrative function. I take the point that the Minister has said that the date on the table there is 31 December of this year. But my question was about whether or not the Government had given some thought to including in the legislation an opportunity to pay it back. So anyone who had received the rebate since it came into being right through to the end of the year\u2014the question is about whether there was an appetite from the Government for people to choose to, effectively, refund the rebate that they had pocketed, not if they think it\u2019s a bad scheme. Clearly, if someone thinks it\u2019s a bad scheme, I would be very surprised that they may have pocketed a rebate, because if there\u2019s an opportunity for perhaps the Government to provide for those that had benefited from this rebate to then return it, then I think that would be a wonderful step forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s not about the deadline, as such, at the end of this year; it is more about providing an opportunity for anyone who has received the rebate since it has been in existence to pay it back if they choose to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022dabfdef09dc340c4ba39a406542fd718\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dabfdef09dc340c4ba39a406542fd718\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for letting me contribute to this important committee stage of this debate. I wanted to speak primarily in my contribution to an amendment that is tabled in my name that looks at the information that\u2019s provided to potential purchasers of vehicles following the passage of this legislation, so I want to go into detail on that. It may be somewhat of an unusual amendment, but if you look at it consistently with the parts in Part 2 that we are actually looking at, including the schedules\u2014which I understand we are looking at in Part 2\u2014we\u2019ve got two examples of labels that will be part of the law once this enactment is passed. I just wanted to ask and seek some clarity from either the Minister, or maybe he can receive some advice, but it\u2019s very difficult to read the labels in this proposed legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EI know, obviously, that possibly we can go to our PCs on our desks and enlarge the font, but I just recently had my eyes tested\u2014[Knocks over glass] Whoops! I can assure the committee that despite almost knocking that glass over, I do have good eyesight and I cannot make out the text in this, and I just would like to note that I do find it a bit concerning. Usually, the items that we are debating are available on the Table, which is as it should be, and I accept that this is on the Table, but it\u2019s very difficult to scrutinise the context of these labels when it\u2019s so small that it can\u2019t be interpreted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ESo, anyway, that\u2019s maybe a side point to my amendment, but my amendment is actually looking to insert a new clause 22A after clause 22, which is in Part 2 of this legislation. My amendment would ask that sellers and importers of vehicles must identify the rebate value that would have been applicable to the vehicle as if the Clean Car Discount scheme had not been repealed, and such value must be displayed on the vehicle\u2019s energy economy label. Obviously, the energy economy labels we can see here, but, unfortunately, only the bigger type can be made out. The exact detail is quite difficult to ascertain. So I just wondered if the Minister would perhaps be able to read out the bits which are not able to be read by members, or if it would be possible prior to the end of the committee stage for a larger copy to be tabled so that members may scrutinise this in more detail. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIn terms of the other parts of Part 2, which we are now debating, we can see that a lot of regulations have been repealed and changed, and I just wanted to ask the Minister whether he was satisfied that given that we don\u2019t have a select committee stage, all of the relevant regulations in Part 2 that are to be repealed are consistent with the purpose of this repeal legislation. We did have an example when we were debating last night where one of the regulations that was to be repealed went, in my view, too far and actually amended a primary piece of legislation. So I just wanted some assurance from the Minister, or from his officials, under advice, that this has been well scrutinised in terms of the regulations which are to be changed, and there are a number of different pieces of legislation and regulations which are mentioned there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d just like to have an assurance that that is correct, and also just to get a bit of clarity on whether he would support my amendment, because I think it is important, if the Government is sure that this is a policy supported by New Zealanders that they\u2019re willing to stand behind, why not let New Zealanders have the information when they purchase a vehicle and see whether that, indeed, holds true in the future? So I think it would be a show of confidence in this legislation if the governing parties were to accept this amendment, because it would clearly show New Zealanders the price of their vehicle, which would be a lower-emitting vehicle, which would lead to lower emissions, which, in turn, would aid our campaign to have a better climate for the future, and New Zealanders would be able to see clearly when they purchase a vehicle the difference between the policy that the Government is implementing and the policy that the previous Government had implemented, which did lead to New Zealand having a much cleaner car fleet. So if the Minister could answer those questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225f9ca16b553449ef9d5c349b827fcf0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f9ca16b553449ef9d5c349b827fcf0d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker, I just wanted to say that we\u2019re just seeking some advice about getting larger copies so that it\u2019s readable for you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022059de3bb1cea402b974bf05f9c691136\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022059de3bb1cea402b974bf05f9c691136\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I actually had a similar concern because I can\u2019t read anything in the small print. It\u2019s quite hard to speak meaningfully on a proposal that you can\u2019t read, so I\u2019d really appreciate it and I genuinely would like to check that script.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EBut I also wondered about the process of the alternative of labels, because I don\u2019t know where the advice came that this has got some efficacy. I\u2019d like to know how this proposal to generate labels was instigated, where this alternative has come, whether it\u2019s actually got benefit. It may be that it\u2019s in the small print, but I don\u2019t know what these things mean on this label. So I can see that there is a level of emissions of \u201C29\u201D\u201429 out of what? What kind of emissions are we talking about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI raised, earlier, issues where I was really worried about the air quality in Auckland and people being subjected to a lot of poisons. I know that we\u2019ve had child deaths as a result of air-quality issues in the valleys in Auckland, and that\u2019s often where the motorways are. I have parts of my electorate which just back straight on to the motorway. It\u2019s often our vulnerable who live in those places because they\u2019re poorer. I\u2019d really like to know about that emissions part, but the same is true\u2014I really just have not enough information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI also would like to know whether anybody has consulted health officials about this approach and whether it works, or whether there is any international information available where this approach has been successful or otherwise. So those are really genuine concerns I raise on behalf of my constituents. They seem incredibly important. We\u2019re given an example here of a plug-in hybrid. I\u2019m not given any example of how this applies in a situation where we\u2019re not talking about those hybrids. Are these based on averages of vehicle use in a city, in the country, etc.?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI just need a lot more information than I\u2019ve got, but mainly I want to know about the efficacy and the advice that was given about whether this works and how this has been looked at. I was interested in an answer I received earlier from the Minister about air quality, and this was something that\u2014forgive me\u2014relates to both parts, I think. But I was standing, asking for a call about this. He suggested that there was no relationship between this bill and those issues of air quality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EMy understanding is\u2014and I was on that select committee\u2014these things were raised at the time, they were issues that were very much part of the reason for bringing this about and we have a whole lot of issues around equity as well. I would fully expect the regulations and the decision over the regulations to reflect that. What is the connection? Is this really not an issue that is actually relevant, in the eyes of the Minister, on this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I very much genuinely would like to know whether this is seen as separate; if so, why? Given that, of course, cars emit such fuels, and electric cars emit much less toxins, as do more efficient petrol vehicles. So what is the story here? I\u2019d really genuinely like to know the answers to those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to also know whether these regulations that we have had put before us so quickly have been anywhere near the Regulations Review Committee, and if they\u2019re consulted, what the process is around that? Because if they\u2019re overstepping, if they really\u2014that is a very wonderful committee. I was deputy chair to the Hon Judith Collins, and I saw the value in the work of that committee in terms of where there was an overstep, where there was an issue. Yet in this process of rush, I\u2019m actually really unclear as to what happens with regards to regulations review. Do they get this legislation after it\u2019s been passed, and if there has been an overstep, it gets reviewed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3878f9d9da14e6cb08c591599e3a085\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3878f9d9da14e6cb08c591599e3a085\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, we are in the process of trying to get a blown-up version of the labelling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESecond thing\u2014and I\u2019ll sort of try and deal with these in reverse order\u2014all we\u2019re doing with the labelling is removing the dollar sum. If you look at the label itself, if you look at new Schedule 2, inserted by Schedule 4, just to help the members, it\u2019s quite clear that 5.5 refers to carbon dioxide; it states that\u2014even I can read that\u2014and the 29 figure is 29 grams of carbon per kilometre travelled. Those are all standard measures, right? So there\u2019s nothing unusual, special. I know the members are keenly interested in looking at the detail, but the reality is this is pretty standard stuff. So I think I\u2019ve identified the key bits there for you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESecond thing, for the member in respect of her Amendment Paper (AP) regarding a new clause 22A, the argument that we should disclose the value because that will help everyone in New Zealand to work out whether the National Party\u2019s approach is right compared to Labour, I don\u2019t quite buy into that argument. We are removing that; we don\u2019t see a need, because we\u2019re getting rid of the requirement to do that. Of course, what you\u2019re proposing is a compliance cost and all that sort of stuff, so, unfortunately, we won\u2019t be supporting your AP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThen, I just want to go back to the previous member to that about the concept of: can someone willingly contribute the money back to the Crown? Well, we don\u2019t need to change the legislation. If the good member would like to make a contribution to the Crown or any other organisation, or he wants to take the rebate and give it to the Salvation Army\u2014which is a very worthy cause\u2014you don\u2019t actually need to change the legislation to allow that to happen. I am so grateful that the member might be contemplating to do that on behalf of other people, or even from his own situation if he\u2019s happened to have bought an electric vehicle, but we do not need to legislate that. But this is an interesting debate that everyone\u2019s going through at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022168b72354ce946ccbc88e4ce498e59f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022168b72354ce946ccbc88e4ce498e59f8\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a couple of questions for the Minister in the chair in terms of what will happen in terms of the administration around some of the dates that are laid out in terms of clause 18 \u201Camends the Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2011\u201D, and clause 19 revoking regulation 5(2A).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOne of the things that is happening here is around removing the ability to pay the collected money over as a rebate, and I\u2019ll return to this when we come to the dates. But, actually, those two clauses within this part\u2014because clause 18 provides that section 19 amends that principal piece of legislation, the Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations of 2011, and clause 19 revokes regulation 5(2A), which prohibits the register of motor vehicles from issuing a certificate of registration for a vehicle if there are charges payable for the vehicle under the Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme and those charges have not been paid. This is where we have what I would describe as a chicken and egg situation, that we are coming into a situation\u2014this ends on the 31st. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, there will be a number of people that have made a decision, purchased, but the car has not landed in New Zealand and therefore cannot be registered. They may be expecting receipt of their vehicle and its registration on, say, 29 December, 30 December, even 31 December, but there is a delay for some reason or another and it might not arrive until, say, 4 or 5 January. But the cut-off there that is covered in that clause 19 will provide for a number of problems for those people. They will miss out on the rebate through no fault of their own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s for their reason that there is an amendment, in the name of my colleague Tangi Utikere, proposing that we have a new clause 28 inserted into Part 7 of Schedule 1 of the Land Transport Act 1998\u2014a new clause 28: after clause 27 insert \u201CThis Act continues to apply as if it had not been amended by sections 4 and 7 of the amendment Act for the purposes of a rebate on vehicles for which there was a purchase arrangement in place by the end of 31 December 2023.\u201D Because the way that this bill is written, it\u2019s all about registration. We all know that registration for a vehicle cannot be issued till it has made landfall in New Zealand and it has gone through that process. But what my colleague is suggesting, so that we don\u2019t get people caught in this situation that may over the Christmas New Year period easily happen, is that what we could have is the requirement for there to be that purchase agreement in place by 31 December.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ENow, we do not, of course, agree with the repeal of any of this, but what we are concerned about is that people, through no fault of their own, who are going to get caught by these provisions\u2014and it\u2019s why in Part 2 of this bill, my colleague is proposing that amendment. So I\u2019d like to know whether the Government is willing to countenance that amendment to protect people so they don\u2019t get caught in some tricky situations. They may find that the vehicle that they were about to purchase suddenly goes up by up to $7,000 if they miss out for some reason or another on the ability to claim that rebate; obviously less if someone\u2019s buying a new to New Zealand second-hand vehicle. There could be a delay in that landing over this period, which is reasonably notorious for there being delays as businesses rightly shut down so people can have their holidays. I\u2019d like to hear from the Minister and from the Government whether there is an amendment in this part of the bill that they will support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI do have a further question around the label, and I appreciate that we will be getting blown-up copies of those labels so we can continue to debate this part of the bill. But my question is, given that the labels are going to continue to display the emissions from a particular vehicle, and given, under Part 1 of the bill, there were some very serious questions that the Minister never even addressed around emissions and reporting and advice, I\u2019d like to know in terms of each of those labels displaying emissions information, what information more generally has the Minister received on emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002221a207103d7b4881842cc48d6b4bc385\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221a207103d7b4881842cc48d6b4bc385\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Just to briefly deal with the member\u2019s question, we just want to be very clear with people that if you want to go and buy an electric vehicle and get a rebate, if you want to do that, you need to do it by 31 December. You need to buy it and register it and make your application before 31 December\u2014very clear rules. So just saying to people: don\u2019t go and buy one that\u2019s in the shipment; go and buy one that you can get straight away. It\u2019s a very clear, clean end to this car discount scheme because we need to bring it to a close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022442654eea88347adb0dc46ecfa7b4585\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022442654eea88347adb0dc46ecfa7b4585\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair. The committee will resume at 2 p.m. today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 1.01 p.m. to 2 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223816dcb857344feab60999a6ff0ac240\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022320d6b3e380e4b7f9adb6e0e7daad2dc\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6659e2c0e674492a41d2717c2a091ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6659e2c0e674492a41d2717c2a091ce\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Even though it\u2019s not actually Thursday, I thought I might do a Business Statement, if the House would like it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa45ac3522948ceb4e30bb666a01db7\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: It is Thursday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5af2eab03e344fbbe43e375783dd59a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014[Interruption] He gets it; the parliamentary nerds get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da0a1afae87041e5af799d996f342686\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please, just carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b55667525c65464fae4e3614a6b8636f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Next week\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd640519e42f4d46978488219dcd86f5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, just a bit of quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df2663fd75364b1bb0810b9e8ea04848\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the House will consider legislation, under urgency, to progress the Government\u2019s 100-day plan. Legislation to be considered will include the Resource Management (Natural and Built Environment and Spatial Planning Repeal and Interim Fast-track Consenting) Bill, the Employment Relations (Trial Periods) Amendment Bill, and\u2014this is not related to the 100-day plan\u2014the Secondary Legislation Confirmation Bill (No 2). There will be members\u2019 maiden speeches on Tuesday, and the House will hold the adjournment debate, which will set the sitting calendar for 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aaafb81264b241579c3088f32b30a13d\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002293f9cf05416a4eb68c8242fb09959667\u0022\u003EKiwiRail\u2014Interislander Ferry Fleet, Funding\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002263f1f4bb5f4741d7b9453cfa12e1edcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263f1f4bb5f4741d7b9453cfa12e1edcc\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to make a ministerial statement. Yesterday, I announced that the coalition Government has declined a request from KiwiRail to contribute significant additional funding to address cost escalations in the project to replace the Interislander ferry fleet. This was a very difficult decision for the incoming Government to have to make, and the last thing we wanted to have to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThis is a matter that was first brought to our attention during the post-election caretaker period. At the time, we were asked to authorise a draw-down of contingency funds to keep the project going. When we asked questions about the project, massive cost blowouts were revealed, and there were significant questions about the deliverability of the project. On taking office, a briefing from KiwiRail revealed a further cost blowout and a request for additional funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt is important for the House to hear the scale of this blowout because this is a project that under the previous Government\u2019s watch not only became far more expensive than was originally projected but also veered far away from its core purpose. We were advised that the project to replace the Interislander ferries had almost quadrupled in cost since it began, to now reach a staggering figure of approximately $3 billion, and only 21 percent of those costs relate to the core project of replacing ageing ferries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAt the same time as KiwiRail was asking for the additional funding to be provided urgently, officials were advising us that putting more money into the project would make it harder to withdraw. KiwiRail advised that there were no options it would recommend to reduce the scale of the project, while Treasury and the Ministry of Transport advised us not to agree to the funding request. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ELet me be clear: this Government\u2014our coalition Government\u2014is committed to having a resilient, safe, and reliable Cook Strait ferry service, but that cannot mean that we have an open chequebook to provide whatever is asked in whatever circumstances that might arise. It would be irresponsible for us to continue funding a project that has diverted so far in scope and cost from the original proposal. We have a responsibility to ensure the public gets value for its money, and that is why the coalition Government has declined a request from KiwiRail to contribute additional funding to this project. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EMembers will have seen that KiwiRail is now looking to wind down the project, and will work with the Government, including my colleague the Minister for State Owned Enterprises, Paul Goldsmith, to look at alternative options. I want to acknowledge that a lot of people have put a lot of time into this project, and they will be disappointed by this news. I thank them for their work and I want to assure them that the coalition Government is committed to a resilient, safe, and reliable Cook Strait ferry service, and from here, we will be working with KiwiRail and with officials on alternative options for ensuring that connection. We will be looking at a full suite of options and drawing on expertise from a wide range of experts. We will be looking to learn lessons from what has happened here and ensuring it cannot happen again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EOne thing is for sure: we will not be repeating the cavalier approach taken by the former Labour Government towards spending taxpayers\u2019 money. We have been advised that the outgoing Government knew in February 2023 that the cost had blown out to $2.6 billion, but that was never made public\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b420c34ce8d744999b01e582285c8282\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: So that\u2019s what we use ministerial statements for now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e26ef91df741455887e92455306324c0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just hold on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9bdb68c779241c8be809a722e8624ff\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and we all saw yesterday the Controller and Auditor-General\u2019s report into the previous Government\u2019s investment in infrastructure. It highlighted how\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281a00a9d047f4c6c8b39786556cb568c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, just keep the ministerial statement to the Government decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e2e77b3759a4a558f73ba77251a2140\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yep. It highlighted the need for Ministers to be careful with taxpayers\u2019 money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe coalition Government will be different from the last lot. We will be disciplined and we will tidy up the mess that has been left behind by Labour. We will give taxpayers\u2019 money the respect it deserves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00225c60114d360d4ba8bab3334ee17f7e5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c60114d360d4ba8bab3334ee17f7e5f\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m conscious that you did make comment in regards to the purpose of ministerial statements. Nevertheless, riddled throughout that and after your advice to the Minister, she continued to use a ministerial statement to comment on a previous Government\u2019s\u2014not their Government\u2019s\u2014decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba628b8d42444f60993379cb279de9d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba628b8d42444f60993379cb279de9d9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in the context of why the decision was made. In the last particular bit, I agree there was an inappropriate comment prior to that, and I referenced that with the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6f58c4e6d4141f9b19248e0ab990d7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6f58c4e6d4141f9b19248e0ab990d7c\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, in the spirit of the way in which ministerial statements are now done, I\u2019m going to begin by asking the member two or three specific questions before going on to my more detailed comments on her statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe first of those questions is to ask the Minister to confirm that in October 2022, KiwiRail wrote to Ministers noting \u201Cin a \u2018worst case scenario\u2019 the tagged contingency for the project would need to increase by $280m\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00220f4ad359426e44bc87b66834e94acc3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f4ad359426e44bc87b66834e94acc3f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E That information is new to me. I think what the member may be referring to is a pattern of cost escalation that occurred with this project while he was the key shareholder of KiwiRail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8df59a42947497d989879eb2975052e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8df59a42947497d989879eb2975052e\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know this is an unusual course of action, but I seek leave of the House to table a time frame regarding the Interislander ferry replacement project that was actually released by the Minister yesterday, but\u2014I quoted from it just before. She obviously hasn\u2019t seen it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002218c4d857917043daa048a8096e2c1917\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218c4d857917043daa048a8096e2c1917\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s true. But if it was released by the Minister yesterday, there\u2019s no point of putting it on the Table today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffa1943f1196421a9f36a6d0e9ab63f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffa1943f1196421a9f36a6d0e9ab63f4\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E So the timetable released by the Minister in her own press release yesterday includes the statement from October 2022 that KiwiRail noted that \u201Cin a \u2018worst case scenario\u2019 the tagged contingency would need to increase by $280m\u201D. So I just note, for the member, the answer to the question I asked is contained in the time line she released yesterday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe second question I have for the member is: can she please explain in what way the project \u201Cveered away from its core purpose\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022271ae1ec8f724f2e8b8ca0dda5b091da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022271ae1ec8f724f2e8b8ca0dda5b091da\u0022\u003E Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I want to address the member\u2019s questions sincerely which is to say I am looking at the timetable I released yesterday and the date that the member has used, which is 2022\u2014I\u2019ve got dates on my time line of 2021 and 2023. So I think the challenge that I\u2019m having is with that time line. So I wish to assure the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293a6b52634db44ae9cc403570311370d\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps I should table it because that way we might be able to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec19544f0adc40cf8031a813d4668ba0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You haven\u2019t been granted a point of order, so please sit down. Just trying to work out where we\u2019re at here\u2014would the Minister continue with the answer to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a52ea2ff4854e83a8d7edf8543e5813\u0022\u003ENICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The undertaking I make to the member is that I will ensure that I address this question once I\u2019ve worked out why I can\u2019t find the date on the piece of paper in front of me. And I accept that the question is sincere, and I will give it a sincere answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ETo the second part of your question which regards my statement that the project had veered wildly from its original intent, I based that on the fact that as I understand it, when the Government first agreed to fund this project, it was in order to replace aging ferries, and that was to be the bulk of the infrastructure investment. As I have been advised, that now only comprises around 21 percent of the actual infrastructure project. The other 80 percent or so is for significant marine development and port-side development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1871e27392a42f9911a10106e9f46e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1871e27392a42f9911a10106e9f46e3\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E In light of the answer to that question by the member, I would just refer her to a media release dated 27 May 2020 by the Rt Hon Winston Peters, which includes the following paragraph: \u201CThe funding for the land-side new terminal infrastructure, including rail and vehicle marshaling yards, will create hundreds of local construction jobs in Picton \u2026 along with hundreds of service supply jobs right across New Zealand\u201D. So it is absolutely clear that the statement that the Minister made\u2014that this project had somehow \u201Cveered off course from its core purpose\u201D\u2014is incorrect. The core purpose of the project, agreed by the Labour Party and the New Zealand First Party, was for both the construction of new ferries and, indeed, portside infrastructure, as Mr Peters stated in his statement of 27 May 2020.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe third question I wanted to put to the Minister was to get her to confirm that the request made in February 2023 by KiwiRail to fund the cost escalation\u2014which had now reached $2.6 billion by that point\u2014was not agreed to by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00221516b2a8c41e476680aa7b5ad5e6bdc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221516b2a8c41e476680aa7b5ad5e6bdc1\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in two parts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaed8d64c7564fd08c6aadf49f4fb9e5\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Right. So we didn\u2019t agree to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ff5da806d14b81beac1acf262ead78\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no. I\u2019m not agreeing to that; I\u2019m saying I\u2019m prepared to answer your questions. The first question that you asked was about whether or not the project had veered off. It is absolutely the case that the project today is four times what it was when the Government originally committed to it. And its core purpose was to replace an ageing ferry fleet, and yes there was an acknowledgment\u2014not that the ferries would only be 20 percent of the project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ETo the second question: yes, I have been advised that when the former Government learnt that the project had blown out to $2.6 billion, the Minister at the time then spent a significant number of months trying to work out what to do. And then I got handed the baby.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u00226552821fa06c476f8bcc72515786189f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226552821fa06c476f8bcc72515786189f\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E So, to\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a3cd2a3b43e421aaa64f34e45bcd440\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, hang on, is this a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225df6dfd3d2cd44548f016999b76d77f2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s a question; he\u2019s had his turn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228522e6252c59452bb2501f084344dfaf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, he hasn\u2019t\u2014no, he hasn\u2019t. We\u2019ve got the new rules that allow the interchange leader by leader, so we\u2019ll go right through his\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e8db25e4a744b58a13c5eafa3c31c1d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but you want the facts, don\u2019t you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228401cc9cd80c4cdea0f29fc3f26e4031\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, he hasn\u2019t finished just yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a9b73832feb4692bdb297e5baaa9527\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON\u003C/span\u003E: So, to clarify, the Minister of Finance\u2019s statement says that the project veered away from its core purpose when it hadn\u2019t. The Minister\u2019s statement also says that the cost had blown out to $2.6 billion under the Government\u2019s watch when that money had not in fact been agreed. In fact, in my first question I pointed out that in October 2022, KiwiRail told the then Government that the worst-case scenario would be a need to increase the tagged contingency we\u2019d put aside by $280 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EFor the record, making sure that we have a sustainable and resilient Cook Strait ferry crossing is essential for New Zealanders. We all agree that the cost escalations that KiwiRail proposed were unacceptable, and they were not accepted by the previous Government. What we did was attempt to safeguard the investment that had already been made, the sunk cost that will now be lost to New Zealanders, and ensure that there would be a ferry crossing. We did spend a considerable amount of time between Treasury and KiwiRail and the Government this year to find a way forward, and before we left Government we made an in-principle offer to KiwiRail for part of that construction cost, because we did believe that it was important that New Zealanders did have confidence that there would be an ongoing, sustainable Cook Strait ferry network. KiwiRail rejected that offer, and that was the position we were in going into the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003EThe position the Government now leaves New Zealanders in is with no idea as to how they will be able to ensure that there is a future sustainable Cook Strait ferry crossing. I urge the Minister to do two things: find some certainty for New Zealanders, and release the full documentation about this project so that New Zealanders can see how hard the previous Government worked to keep a ferry crossing going for them in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f87977e142024e3da29b8f3ddb62fbcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f87977e142024e3da29b8f3ddb62fbcb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I think if the point that the former Minister wishes to make is that this sorry saga dragged on for months under his watch, then, yes, that is correct and, yes, he did oversee multiple cost blowouts and, yes, there was engagement with KiwiRail about it. But, actually, what then happened was that he decided, four weeks out from an election, to put aside money for the project, knowing full well that in the form that he was choosing to fund it, KiwiRail had recommended it not proceed and that, for example, passengers would not have been able to get on the ferry unless they caught a bus on to the ferry. That was the solution that was thought viable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226824a2c723334a41811621fb577bad76\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: No ferry\u2014that is your solution. No ferry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e22dac2bc2048058a868192f45d7c10\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: But if the member will just give me a moment of patience, I wish to apologise to the House, because when the member asked me about 2022, I had in front of me an old timetable, and not the one that I have released publicly. I regret that error. The member is correct that the timetable I have released publicly says that in October 2022, \u201CKiwiRail [advised] Government of cost escalation in the terminals, noting market engagement with construction partners [would] result in initial price estimates for the terminals programme in December 2022. KiwiRail noted that in a \u2018worst case scenario\u2019 the tagged contingency would need to increase by $280m.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022cebfaf06bc624805bb681cf968888b87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cebfaf06bc624805bb681cf968888b87\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Under Standing Order 365(1) and 365(1)(a), could I just say to the Minister, well this is a fact: that when this matter was under control, as quoted by Mr Robertson, in 2020 it was under control, but when experience and common sense left the room and the handbrake left the room\u2014it was in 2021 they made that stupid decision without being able to see what it would cost eventually. That\u2019s why it blew out. A 21 percent cost project for ferries became the kind of thing that they did over and over and over again, and the other project is in Antarctica where it\u2019s blown out as well\u201490 percent under their watch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00223940eb7a09e045c99c77a704b461847d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223940eb7a09e045c99c77a704b461847d\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. I\u2019d also like to start with a series of questions to the Minister. Thank you for your ministerial statement. Has the Government received any advice that quantifies the risk to New Zealand of not having replacement ferries if current vessels fail?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bce321d114ea42bda65aa7fb776ff97e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bce321d114ea42bda65aa7fb776ff97e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Mr Speaker, if you go to Standing Order 365(1)(b), can you tell us how it is that that member is speaking on behalf of that party? She\u2019s not the leader, and that\u2019s the qualification that\u2019s required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229325905b37ad4c3a9dd923b40624174b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. So, if you read a bit further, you\u2019ll find that in all these matters, I think the words are \u201Cat the Speaker\u2019s discretion\u201D, and that party leaders notify who they intend to have speaking on behalf of their party. That\u2019s a process that got well established in the last Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7e48776ecd24d5995577a46af82c42c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7e48776ecd24d5995577a46af82c42c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Well, just, when you say, \u201CIf you read further\u201D\u2014I\u2019ve read further, and I do not find those magic words \u201Cat the Speaker\u2019s discretion\u201D. So I\u2019m asking for the Standing Order to be enforced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022 data-id=\u0022860f531d168748cdb1b1c722bb0c432d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022860f531d168748cdb1b1c722bb0c432d\u0022\u003EHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour): \u003C/span\u003ESpeaking to the point of order, perhaps I can help the House by reading out Standing Order 365(1): \u201CFollowing a ministerial statement, the leader of each party with six or more members, or a member authorised by the leader\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2f5a325c23247248208c5ee138f56bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2f5a325c23247248208c5ee138f56bd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah. Where\u2019s the authorisation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002213e844cbfdb446b1afbb09ac9412d607\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213e844cbfdb446b1afbb09ac9412d607\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I am assuming\u2014assuming\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022279114e3d3f94a9499a881e3c8befabe\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t assume.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224524d446a97f4c8a9af51cd39e48d969\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can. I can do a lot of things, and assuming is one of them. And I\u2019m assuming that the Green Party wish to be represented by their transport spokesman, as the Labour Party were represented by their infrastructure and finance spokesperson, and others will come. I\u2019m not sure on what basis the member was speaking, but that\u2019s OK\u2014as the leader.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8aa9ec11b14404db7767b425cc2c69f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8aa9ec11b14404db7767b425cc2c69f\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader\u2014NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I can assure you of the basis, because we have more than six members\u2014and we\u2019ll have many more in the future\u2014and because we know what we\u2019re talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229322a302a9c345ca94fc06b3f810e441\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Righto. OK, we didn\u2019t want to introduce new debating topics, so I\u2019ll call Julie Anne Genter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00222551d171b08549f8a991c1faf14171de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222551d171b08549f8a991c1faf14171de\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just repeat my question, which was to the Minister: has the Government received advice that quantifies the risk to New Zealand of not having replacement ferries if the current vessels fail while we\u2019re waiting for this replacement process? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3c0d0309783493cb9bd756bfa46b91f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3c0d0309783493cb9bd756bfa46b91f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I don\u2019t need advice to know that New Zealand needs a reliable, safe ferry service between our two islands. Our Government is committed to ensuring that is the case and we are confident that that will be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022464a436dd35646c89691c6fefca23e0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022464a436dd35646c89691c6fefca23e0b\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Notwithstanding that the chair of KiwiRail has mentioned that the choice that the Government has made to completely start over in this process will mean that there\u2019ll be considerable delays, potentially, to the replacement ferries, how much of the cost that the Minister has been referring to is related to necessary upgrades to port infrastructure, particularly to address seismic risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00224700564d3dc840fdac31df35748b0bcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224700564d3dc840fdac31df35748b0bcd\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The member will be aware that there are a number of options for how we proceed in terms of replacement ferries, and I\u2019m confident that we can get a timely solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022afa4faccb97645feb1794bdb82426f24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afa4faccb97645feb1794bdb82426f24\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Can the Minister let us know\u2014because she has mentioned that only 21 percent of the current cost is related to the vessels themselves\u2014how much of the cost is related to necessary upgrades to poor infrastructure, particularly to address seismic risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3f974b0f8504c8aabf53cf27dec6c2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3f974b0f8504c8aabf53cf27dec6c2d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I don\u2019t have that figure to hand, but I would note that the member herself said, on X, that the project had become too expensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1bf2c75cfcd4c799b500020b66f6288\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1bf2c75cfcd4c799b500020b66f6288\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, that\u2019s true, and thank you for referring to my very reasonable comments, because I\u2019ve long been a critic of Government spending in the transport sector inflating too fast and not being good value for money. But I guess the relevant point for the Minister that I\u2019m interested in drilling down for the benefit of the House is whether or not the cost inflation is out of line with other cost inflation we\u2019ve seen in infrastructure, particularly in the building space, because of changes made\u2014I believe by a previous National Government\u2014to earthquake standards and our awareness of the risk of seismic risk and whether in fact quadrupling of price is pretty standard certainly for the highways that this Government will be trying to deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002273f3758807944b4b9a7a7d2299f3e44c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273f3758807944b4b9a7a7d2299f3e44c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Well, a cost blowout of four times the size of the original project may have been pretty standard under the last Government, but it\u2019s not going to be pretty standard under this Government. In fact, this project was an outlier, and the point I would make is this: the cost of the infrastructure that needed to be developed at port and on the land side and the marine side, I understand, was a lot more expensive because of the size of the boats\u2014ships\u2014that had been committed to. And that is relevant here because the pattern under the previous Government was that they would commission an infrastructure project without first doing the appropriate due diligence to fully understand the design implications and implications of it. Don\u2019t take it at my word; read the Auditor-General\u2019s report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00223c33ffcf445844cf99696578f695551a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c33ffcf445844cf99696578f695551a\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Two more quick questions: will energy efficiency and carbon emissions be a consideration in any new vessels that are commissioned, given that they do have ongoing implications for the cost of running the vessels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00225f2764c2bae3416e9f057fb348735dbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f2764c2bae3416e9f057fb348735dbb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, it\u2019s my understanding that modern ferries are less emissions intensive than the ferries we are currently using.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00225ed83d168b074bb982ab18f18b9bdf24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ed83d168b074bb982ab18f18b9bdf24\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Will continuity of rail freight services be a consideration in the necessary port-side infrastructure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fafebd04431f4f8db65def5f81f51b61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fafebd04431f4f8db65def5f81f51b61\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E We will continue to want the ferries to support good freight connections between the North and South Island and we continue to support rail as a means for transporting freight around New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3223461c12c4eaca09a53b38d984230\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3223461c12c4eaca09a53b38d984230\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Cabinet has made the right decision. KiwiRail\u2019s project iReX was hugely wasteful, had already faced cost blowouts, and was facing larger significant cost blowouts. We are a Government that wishes to ensure that we deliver value for money for all New Zealand taxpayers. This move will also send a clear signal to the public sector that we will not tolerate cost blowouts and a lack of value for money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u002286f4abb106a948e69c2fabc605e2090a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286f4abb106a948e69c2fabc605e2090a\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. Look, just a couple of questions, please. We\u2019ve been concerned\u2014in fact, last night, we were debating how we protect small to medium sized businesses. So it\u2019s a unique position Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori finds itself in, asking the Government about economic questions and, surely, productivity. So we\u2019ve now got a decision that will axe and limit the economic ability within Te Wai Pounamu and its aspirations and ability to grow. We have been extremely concerned with the messages that we\u2019ve had from businesses in Te Wai Pounamu. So we have a couple of questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIf we are continuing down this \u201Ccancel culture\u201D approach economically, can you please explain what the Government is doing to connect\u2014has it communicated with those businesses who are in shock, who have had aspirations to grow their economy, and what is it that you are doing (1) to contact them; (2) what is the solution that you\u2019re providing them instead of, because their aspirations have been built around this project\u2014rightly or wrongly; we\u2019re certainly not sticking up on either side. What we are more focused on is how their economic aspirations will be realised, when you will be able to support them, and, most importantly, what degree of investment is the Government going to provide so that the businesses, the very grassroots people who have been relying on this project and this solution to happen, will happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00222461a7983aed4dd281db81f1e45fce07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222461a7983aed4dd281db81f1e45fce07\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for her question and her appreciation that, actually, the wellbeing of all New Zealanders is dependent on businesses being able to thrive, employ people, grow, and innovate. I can assure the member that our Government is committed to a range of policies to assist in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to this specific project, I repeat the assurances in my initial ministerial statement: we know that there are people who are impacted by this decision, but we wish to reassure them that we remain 100 percent committed to reliable interisland ferry services and that we will make decisions that allow those to continue to be delivered. We appreciate the importance of that connection for freight and for passengers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f23a25ab525d4fe7bae1d067ef1d0eea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f23a25ab525d4fe7bae1d067ef1d0eea\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Can I seek clarity, please, on which businesses, which sector within the business sector have been communicated with or consulted, bar the release that came out?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d511410e5f974522bd7ba4d640751d3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d511410e5f974522bd7ba4d640751d3e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E We have asked that KiwiRail engage its contract partners and stakeholders in communicating this information, and we anticipate further engagement in the days and weeks ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf162044a33c4bfda4f1ced4411fa943\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf162044a33c4bfda4f1ced4411fa943\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Can I please seek clarity: have Ng\u0101i Tahu, Wakat\u016B, the M\u0101ori business sector, who are extremely successful and prominent in Te Wai Pounamu\u2014what has been the engagement with them and how are they being supported to realise their aspirations economically that they\u2019ve had on hold for a very long time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002241c9e693af2c4238a35322e65f348a12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241c9e693af2c4238a35322e65f348a12\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for her question, and I would welcome further engagement with that group. I think the point here that we can agree on is that there are a number of stakeholders with an interest in ferry services across the Strait. Those stakeholders include businesses, the port, and KiwiRail itself. I wish to re-evaluate this project not just from the perspective of KiwiRail but actually from the perspective of all port users, ferry users, and freight users, to ensure that we\u2019re coming up with a solution that best delivers value for all New Zealanders, not just for the KiwiRail business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022acd0cf60ac8847a4a87bb09a378da03d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acd0cf60ac8847a4a87bb09a378da03d\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Just one last question. Have the regional and local government authorities been engaged, and what has been their feedback to the Government about this change of direction?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8483f0bef4c4729aa167e96f2ae7dd0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8483f0bef4c4729aa167e96f2ae7dd0\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E We will be carrying out engagement with those entities in the coming days. I wish to be clear with the House about the challenge that we found ourselves in, which is that we had a financial situation on our desks that required urgent resolution due to requests to draw down funding. At the point that Cabinet made a decision, responding to the urgency of that, we then knew that we had made a very market-sensitive decision. What we thought was important to do was communicate that to KiwiRail as quickly as possible so that they could then make the appropriate engagement with their contractual partners. We moved quickly to do what we said we would, which was as soon as was possible to make open to the whole public, to all New Zealanders, the decision we\u2019d made and the reasons for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think it\u2019s conscionable that the previous Government knew since February last year that this project blew out to $2.6 billion and chose not to do anything to allow people awareness of that problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247aceb6c3bb3403786ef5634458c56b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, sorry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289ce9483319f44e68f8b63ed2225687c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: We got given a basket case\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a531c936da7443b82406a1a65b661f9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca2d19bcc90149fb8f15c39f8f51642e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014we took action\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da5bf7aa8f604777a71791e8825ddc13\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member doesn\u2019t appear to be listening. Ministerial statements need to stay tightly to the matter being dealt with, without the added speculation. I might just offer that advice to all Ministers who might be listening now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b1090669c8574b9fa6ffc43d36663b87\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002205005690fdf94171b6b0ef3c0f35d0ad\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd1c9c27c11b49e8be261d9210994796\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd1c9c27c11b49e8be261d9210994796\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before the House was suspended, the result of the vote on the second reading of the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill was incorrectly announced as Ayes 70, Noes 51. The correct result was Ayes 67, Noes 54. The record of the House will be corrected accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002212d52cfb404b483197533dcbc2fdaaf0\u0022\u003Epetitions, papers, select committee reports, and introduction of bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f07eed7f87345a783324ac2b5937400\u0022\u003Epetitions, papers, select committee reports, and introduction of bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00225747db536a8c44fbace11af1cd71ec29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225747db536a8c44fbace11af1cd71ec29\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I present the report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled Observations from our central government work in 2022/23, and the report of the Ombudsman entitled \u201CInsights and observations on extreme weather events 2023\u201D. Those papers will be published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220366d44be52840af924568240f08f6af\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223559bcefd69944d0a6532da8e1d3fda9\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002220d5855705194ff1923ccbe96a6607f4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00228b9da1f3370c45739107b5278e71a2b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b9da1f3370c45739107b5278e71a2b6\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022a18bd32a86844606b86265cc6c956c1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a18bd32a86844606b86265cc6c956c1c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and especially the very strong actions the Government has taken to ensure that we\u2019re focused on improving the lives of New Zealanders by rebuilding the economy, and particularly with news out this morning that the previous Government\u2019s economic mismanagement saw the economy shrink in three of the past four quarters\u2014three of the past four quarters. In particular, I stand by our action to stop the significant risk posed to taxpayers by cost escalations on KiwiRail\u2019s ferry project; also our action to focus the Reserve Bank on fighting inflation, which is, of course, pain and suffering to all New Zealanders; of course, our action to actually change the speed limit rules to allow New Zealanders to get to where they need to go faster and safer. I have to tell you this is a Government that is elected with a mandate for change and an unashamed and unflinching focus on cleaning up the mess left by that member\u2019s Government to get our country back on track and realise all the great potential that sits in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225194ca801dfb4fc484b193b9849f293f\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his Government\u2019s decision to suspend regulatory impact statements for proposals in his 100-day plan, and does he feel that suspending advice on the impact of his decisions is based on data and evidence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1102f80926e48d9a38dac48b74ef225\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We are very comfortable with suspending regulatory impact statements because we don\u2019t think they\u2019ll add value for decisions that we\u2019re repealing legislation on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b6b4cf9671e47f69c0ac58916413abb\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the National Party leader, Christopher Luxon, that \u201CI can tell you we\u2019re going to be straight with the New Zealand people, tell it as it is\u2014the good, the bad and the ugly\u201D; if so, what\u2019s changed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abb717e2372b45418f3c4dcbbc36e3f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Very much\u2014we\u2019re going to be very straight up with the New Zealand people, and what they have heard today is that that was a previous Government that led three of the last four quarters\u2019 declining economic growth. What they\u2019ve heard today, and we\u2019ve been straight up with the New Zealand people about, is a $15 billion New Zealand Upgrade project with an Auditor-General\u2019s report that says it was appallingly managed\u2014appallingly managed. What you\u2019re going to see is a Government that is very focused on making sure taxpayers are not treated like bottomless ATM machines, that we get return for their money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5921b5ecabf41f389beeef71b30d310\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Did he suspend regulatory impact statements before or after the regulatory impact statement for repealing fair pay agreements was leaked?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200b5eb71bd614c24b6c2f14b8eb813e3\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We are determined to make sure, through repealing the fair pay awards legislation, that we can actually make it easier for people to hire workers, not harder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd4ff18e10bd4d929921e60efe7d9d79\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228733fb9f9a764f8cb435593838c86ba2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014I think I know what\u2019s coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aed5d5e0f044e0195ae24556f789811\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, do you want to do it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ccab01308c04c2680c5338db9f313d2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think you could do a bit better with the answer, Prime Minister, on that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af7ab655c07740c9b8fbe2625ae6bdf5\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: It was before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225406ca56e1bd4566943d8b4b70f007b8\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his Government\u2019s decision to repeal fair pay agreements, the Reserve Bank dual mandate, and the Clean Car Discount under urgency with no select committee process or regulatory impact statement, or does he agree with Chris Bishop that \u201CThis is a disgraceful way to make important law.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022614e1fb7db5040e5b0b8add6bb5beb23\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first leg of the question, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e7e3fe272d34533a42c4f8828b340e5\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Has he suspended receiving regulatory impact statements because (a) he doesn\u2019t like what they say, (b) he\u2019s going to ignore them anyway, (c) he knows they\u2019ll leak, or (d) all of the above?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d862563108f4f298caab86c658d377c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We went to an election, we had a campaign, we made very clear what we were going to do, and we\u2019re going to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fed9311467104df992ab99db6d31d3bf\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: In light of that answer, can we now expect that because of the election result, no pieces of legislation will be referred to a select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8ea5df1f4c649798f1572f073e23129\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: No. We want a proper process. [Interruption] No, no, hear the answer\u2014hear the answer. The answer is: when we went to the election with really good clarity about the policies we\u2019re going to repeal and the dumb legislation from the previous Government that we\u2019re repealing\u2014we\u2019re going to move forward with great speed so that we can actually get this country moving forward. But what I\u2019d just say: I think it is ironic on a day when we\u2019ve had economic news where in three of the last quarters under the previous Government we had negative economic growth, at a time when inflation has been out of the band for the last over 21 months, when we\u2019ve seen wages not keeping pace with inflation, we haven\u2019t had a single economic question from the Opposition\u2014a single economic question from the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d871364ccbc648699228dee98a7c0d1f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Prime Minister: has the Government just learnt, with respect to KiwiRail, the lack of impact that the impact statement had on the previous Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fafe7c247e8a4edeb3dda0398a8804a1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, look, I\u2019ll tell you what, these sort of questions aren\u2019t very helpful to the order of the House. They might be enormously entertaining for a number of people, but they\u2019re not helpful for the order of the House, and that\u2019s two days in a row, so can you sort of keep it down to genuine questions? There must be a lot of genuine questions you could ask the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248bc37be847e44a2a0bd5fe545f287b1\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government now support the immediate humanitarian ceasefire it voted for at the United Nations General Assembly yesterday, or does it still believe there are a list of preconditions that must be met before calling for a ceasefire?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c18b04f97678404690ad971177c53075\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I think our position is very clear. We want a cease to hostilities\u2014as you\u2019ve seen in the parliamentary statement; as you\u2019ve seen from the joint Prime Ministers\u2019 statements for Australia, New Zealand, and Canada; and as you\u2019ve seen for our support for the General Assembly resolution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f091f09b93c04eefabee32fb19d9c362\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00221827c2dcf7374f6e9c03556c73d339d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221827c2dcf7374f6e9c03556c73d339d7\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What reports has she received on the state of the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00225e0bcac681ff4888adb586371bc41082\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e0bcac681ff4888adb586371bc41082\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand is experiencing difficult economic conditions. Statistics New Zealand confirmed today that GDP declined in the third quarter of this year, a third decline in just the last year. It\u2019s also been confirmed that New Zealand did experience a recession at the end of the last year and the beginning of this year. I\u2019ve also seen reports from the member for Remutaka, who claimed last week that we \u201Cinherited an economy that is growing faster than many economists had predicted\u201D and that the economy was \u201Cnever in recession\u201D, but I have seen no evidence to confirm those reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0b136ab38254a67949f5ad9a3e3630e\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has she seen on the outlook from here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022419eebd89a514380b4d1db09e8b93aca\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: After six years of economic mismanagement, turning the New Zealand economy around won\u2019t be achieved overnight. Our Government has inherited big fiscal deficits, a large current account deficit, an economy in decline, and a labour market on the skids. Rebuilding the economy will be a massive task, which is why we are moving fast and getting quick wins as part of our 100-day plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273e5913a712c4d8d943e4a71cf696f90\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has she seen on GDP per capita?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e3e20127b0f4ddbb16ca7c3f97fd9b3\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Today\u2019s GDP per capita figures show on a per person basis the New Zealand economy has gone nowhere since the start of 2021 and has gone backwards four quarters in a row. The last time GDP per capita continued to slide for at least that long was during the global financial crisis. Kiwis knew they were going backwards under Labour. Today\u2019s data is just a confirmation of the challenge they face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e083be704c814e7e907f193433e3d6c8\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is the Government taking to turn economic conditions around?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5de1c69efbc43b49c066b40a647402d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is taking urgent steps to rebuild the economy in the interests of all New Zealanders. We\u2019re supporting the Reserve Bank in their fight to beat inflation, because after years of rampant spending, this Government understands that monetary policy needs mates. We\u2019re eliminating wasteful spending, ensuring taxpayers\u2019 money is spent well, and we\u2019re clearing out the blockages in the economy and reducing costs on business so we can chart a course back to growth, investment, and opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b324e306a664469696ad12072888ab11\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Energy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022d198b18b3f574c9782be4fcb15eb90c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d198b18b3f574c9782be4fcb15eb90c9\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Energy: What are the total emissions reductions that will result from the doubling of renewable energy that was promised by the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002215b2ebb14cfc4468bd53f42007f0cb58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215b2ebb14cfc4468bd53f42007f0cb58\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Our commitment to doubling renewable energy will provide businesses with the investment certainty they need to make the switch to renewable energy, which will ensure emissions reductions. We have started work on updating the national policy statement for renewable electricity generation to make it easier to consent renewable energy. Part of that work will include getting that advice. I note that the Boston Consulting Group study The Future is Electric found that electrification could reduce annual carbon emissions by 22 million tonnes in 2050.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214266c41f824427c841878b0306aa890\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: What percentage of New Zealand\u2019s greenhouse gas emissions come from the energy sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3a46a2ea0b24fb68f4d2cf91049a6d9\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Now, what percentage of our energies is about 50 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256f99e7351bb4b75832ccdf0649090ce\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that the percentage of New Zealand\u2019s greenhouse gas emissions that come from the electricity generation is 5.7 percent, whereas the percentage of New Zealand\u2019s greenhouse gas emissions that come from the energy sector is 40.6 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abc2719d72a14f8c877f2babb89f5f8a\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as the member rightly knows, those are very good statistics and I\u2019m sure she\u2019s correct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a941735df6341febf679eea83a61df0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: What other policies, then, does the Government have to reduce the 40.6 percent of New Zealand\u2019s emissions that come from the energy sector, given that the Minister\u2019s own officials advise that only 5.7 percent of New Zealand\u2019s greenhouse gas emissions come from electricity generation and the Climate Commission advised complementary measures to the emissions trading scheme (ETS) are required to shift industrial and process heat from carbon sources?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6785cc12024452986098a43d57ccffc\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as the member will know\u2014being a former Minister for energy\u2014the electrification of our economy is going to require a significant amount of more electricity to be generated. That is why we have a policy of updating the national policy statement for renewable electricity generation to double renewable energy in New Zealand. And it\u2019s not just for electricity supply now, but for all of the other activities that it\u2019s going to be required\u2014in transport and industry and energy, all of those other factors\u2014and I thought the member might know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e428dd33b844c97a54a0851ff444213\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I did actually ask a very specific question and it was around policies that are going to be required to move energy emissions over to electricity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022651045397e244d8d88239e9ad15b4774\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, yep. Stop arguments and save time. It was a very long question. Can you ask it concisely again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d191000a3c3046eea2fad6529dd97bf7\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: OK. What policies does the Government have to move industrial and process heat coming from fossil fuel sources to electrification?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe8342cc1c3a4663aad17b1a3a339964\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this Government will use the emissions trading scheme, which is a critically important tool\u2014and a critically important market-based tool\u2014to help move New Zealand and bend the curve of emissions down. That Government over there wanted to subsidise wealthy businesses with profitable businesses using taxpayers\u2019 money. We\u2019ll use the emissions training scheme as the key tool.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd5f3643124842b099bf1b1ce46a596f\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: What is his plan to fix market imbalances in an electricity market dominated by four gentailers, which today\u2019s Generating Scarcity 2023 report shows has stifled investment in renewable electricity generation and resulted in billions of excess dividends to shareholders, all while thousands of New Zealanders struggle to heat their homes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6769f0eda6f485b85a2969ae0955856\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate that\u2019s the member\u2019s first question, but it\u2019s a very long one and contained quite a degree of statement. So just work that one through in the future, but the Minister will now answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ea2e52f51814ea3bea3c84a17a6b862\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you, and it\u2019s a very good question. But what is stifling the market was this former Government\u2019s Lake Onslow\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e9072a3ca1649c691ca47c5da8afe9f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, you\u2019re not talking about them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cfa50422d8243c7876878b3c4fd0a69\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014programme: $16 billion, which was actually stifling investment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202bbbb7a756245e1a1e8ad81a6d5edee\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, that\u2019ll do. That\u2019s enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a96a1a894bfd4a19b006d6e81f93c8fc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that for the ETS alone to shift industrial process heat to electrification, the price needs to be in excess of $200 a tonne, and can he advise New Zealanders what it will do to their electricity and petrol bills at that price?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aacb230e01c24b54a24a455502fa227c\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: What I can confirm is this Government is going to have the tools and the policies to double renewable energy in New Zealand so we can electrify our economy. What I will say, though, to the businesses\u2014the profitable businesses\u2014which were receiving subsidies under that Government, they will not be receiving them under this Government. They should be making those investments themselves. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258d8173ef24749a6b186bbdae21f50b8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Very good, thank you. We\u2019ll call question No. 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f61d75dc42204a118d83c3309918c89e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Infrastructure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccf361619d0247e19b14654b46abeeeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccf361619d0247e19b14654b46abeeeb\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Infrastructure: What recent reports has he seen on decision-making processes for Government infrastructure investments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022df4e2316058d402a82a851d2db35a801\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df4e2316058d402a82a851d2db35a801\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister for Infrastructure):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve seen a deeply concerning report from the Auditor-General into the shovel-ready and New Zealand Upgrade programmes. The Auditor-General found that Ministers did not have enough information to be sure that decisions supported value for money, and that the Government carried out due diligence after announcements were made. He also has reported to Parliament that as part of putting together the report, some of the so-called shovel-ready projects were not actually shovel-ready at all. Like many who have read this report, I was shocked to learn of these findings and see how badly the schemes were managed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e46717b0c02408f85fc14e5bcaec20b\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Were Ministers provided advice which raised concerns about their proposed plans for these Government infrastructure investments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022355696f54b664ebeb8d28eda09c05237\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, they were indeed. The Auditor-General found that at several points, officials advised Ministers of risks to value for money for both the Upgrade programme and the shovel-ready programme. What\u2019s more, Ministers were explicitly advised there was a real risk of cost overruns as well as delays. The Ministry of Health advised a number of health projects were not ready to be announced, yet despite all these warnings, Ministers pushed on with the announcements anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b49fc31589324a6fb2a5b80966cdb4c5\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Auditor-General raise any additional concerns about ministerial decision-making?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274c60d9613c847a0b0e7b4340a4bd1bc\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Unfortunately, he did. He found that Ministers made their decision to progress some of these projects despite the projects not being fully scoped or even planned. Business cases were not always available or up to date. In the case of Auckland Transport, announcements were made about Auckland Transport projects and Auckland Transport were not even asked for the business cases or for information about the projects they were responsible for. It is clear Ministers were too worried about hitting \u201Csend\u201D on press releases rather than ensuring value for money for taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022239306368d6348e7ae734636cbb13b3a\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234fd163484794f60aa61c6034c594c48\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a moment. Just stay standing\u2014we\u2019ll just have a bit of quiet while people are asking their question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247d53d6114e84b86b99a45c1e939b820\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Did the Auditor-General raise any specific concerns about transparency and integrity as part of these infrastructure investments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d51119d6741b4a61952d1b4115f31240\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, he did, and this is very worrying\u2014the House should listen to this. The Auditor-General stated, and I quote, \u201CA lack of transparency in documentation about how and why decision-makers made significant decisions can \u2026 create the perception that processes lack integrity.\u201D To quote the report itself, \u201CDuring the process of longlisting, shortlisting, and Ministers making final decisions \u2026 many changes were made to the list of projects under consideration. There were frequent discussions between Ministers\u2019 offices and officials during this time, and some projects were added from outside of the Infrastructure Reference Group process \u2026 My staff found it difficult to determine how or why these changes were made.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e814f2175e40473b88d6fda741d61531\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the comments made by the Hon Shane Jones in the Northern Advocate on 22 May 2021, I quote, \u201CWe had a pretty good lick of the cherry in the last three years and as far as Northland is concerned, I\u2019ve learnt the hard way in that the challenge to getting things done is timeliness and execution. Now, the acid is on the system to get the projects running and to get the money out. For a small country with a very modest population, we spend an inordinate amount of time ticking boxes.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f516456095f34d829abe2fa3611ca972\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. That is a seriously true statement, except it is not the Minister\u2019s responsibility to answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fe899ee1ddd4fc0a10b72d2cf8e279f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. The question was \u201CHad he seen \u2026\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc6b7ee527864c67a9cb29dcad663471\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CDid he agree \u2026\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210319789a8a647fbbe5b51e4038af148\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s a bit like assumption; you\u2019re allowed to speculate occasionally, and in this case it\u2019s not unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dabb881af53148b5882aaf29c5faffde\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Do you agree?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fe84ea3328147eca4c74fda0032c47b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with a lot of what Shane Jones says, particularly about the need for speed when it comes to consenting, about which the Government will have more to say very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224016e01718cb40f0b9ccd4a4c7fd1274\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Were the stakeholders to these impacted projects well consulted as part of this process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226019467bdef74fc9a00e6a1d0d80aaf9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it won\u2019t surprise the House to learn that the answer is no. In one of the most surprising findings of this deeply troubling report, key stakeholders like the Infrastructure Commission and Auckland Transport had to find out about the New Zealand Upgrade programme through media coverage\u2014and if that isn\u2019t reflective of the priorities of the last Government, I\u2019m not sure what is. We are a coalition Government who knows that high-quality infrastructure boosts our economy and benefits all New Zealanders. We are committed to multi-generational infrastructure up and down this country, but we also know that proper process and respect for taxpayer money should be at the forefront of our decisions, and it will be under this coalition Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc0c1e48a78a46289fbbcccd6c6c7208\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022608ba2d8e4e84966908c748d6b8c8eb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022608ba2d8e4e84966908c748d6b8c8eb9\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What did the official advice provided to Cabinet on 4 December estimate would be the impact of discontinuation of the clean car discount on New Zealand\u2019s carbon dioxide emissions, and were there any inconsistencies between this advice and other analysis provided by the Ministry of Transport? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002231fad3e2a40f455a926186b3bac92daf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231fad3e2a40f455a926186b3bac92daf\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The advice to Cabinet noted that the transport sector remains on target to achieve its contribution to the first emissions reduction plan. Advice provided to Cabinet is consistent with all the advice provided to me by the Ministry of Transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291b4333fe4e342ada24a0a7a8960ad6f\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister has referred to this document, and I\u2019m wondering if we could ask the Minister to table the documents since he\u2019s referred to the content of it in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dceb1a00aa7040039db88ac6c18bfdaf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a matter of whether or not he relied on the document in the House or was simply making a statement from it. So I\u2019ll ask the Minister: is that a document he has with him in the House that he would want to table?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dc1d9a43408469db1f2bc2402da57ce\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I just said that it was advice provided to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd52cd92fa474324ab177584b2941983\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Advice provided\u2014yeah. I think there\u2019s a slight difference between advice provided and a document. So thank you but\u2014your next supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0736e27587245cb931f78dd0c0ab7d1\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Why won\u2019t he release the draft regulatory impact statement that was prepared by the Ministry of Transport on the impacts of carbon emissions before we vote on the legislation today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022761ccf28a4c6445183cc752e18133c08\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: It was a draft document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022112b2c913d914b08996157146b41bb95\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Why won\u2019t he release the draft document so we can see what the draft advice was before we vote on the legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ddc0f7b5f84451da9c21078eabf4c88\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: It was a draft document. I\u2019ve asked Ministry of Transport officials to prepare the proactive release of this Cabinet paper and regulatory impact statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228638a6efed2a45f6a2e0d57f2ab3c164\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Why won\u2019t the Minister release the advice produced by the Ministry of Transport telling us what the impacts of the repeal of this legislation will be on New Zealand\u2019s carbon dioxide emissions before we vote on the legislation in the House today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212153ec6484049db8d81767f264fb158\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve said, the advice to Cabinet noted that the transport sector remains on target to achieve its contribution to the first emissions budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab8e4f52ae0d49b6b6f8a0123e8212f2\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will removing the Clean Car Discount have on transport emissions given they\u2019re already covered by the emissions trading scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a05e97496f42401789779088aa9dd8f1\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is a very good point; they are covered by the emissions trading scheme and capped under that scheme. But also, as I said in my answer to the primary question, the advice to Cabinet noted that the transport sector remains on target to achieve its contribution to the first emissions reduction plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ce6824df802432e81b79015a4ed99cf\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Are there other impacts from removing this ute tax, like the benefits to the rural communities who will no longer need to pay the fee on their farm vehicles?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb9ee2a968ee4c40b5b74151bef77491\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, this removal will have a huge benefit for our rural communities. In fact, the advice I\u2019ve received shows that of the $290 million paid in tax under the ute tax scheme, half of it has come from people buying utes. Many of them will be farmers and tradies in our rural communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d4159386324436ba9b672db9078f1ce\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Does the official advice that the Minister is refusing to release before we vote on the legislation concur with the report released by Concept Consulting for Drive Electric that the reduced uptake of electric vehicles, because of the repeal of the Clean Car Discount, will see New Zealand spending over a billion more on imported oil from overseas and mean that we will import 100,000 fewer electric vehicles in the period from now to 2030, thereby increasing carbon emissions relative to if the scheme stayed in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b95bad9f7f074b00801c2096b8d1182b\u0022\u003ESIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I dispute the assertion made by the member. In fact, I was very pleased to see yesterday that Ford announced that, from 1 July, the day after the tax will be removed, they will be reducing the price of some of their electric vehicles from between $5,000 and $8,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff8af2a6472e43799e788b0a40d26e26\u0022\u003EChris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister received reports about past examples of Ministers adamantly refusing to release correspondence about related matters to the transport portfolio that might be in the public interest to release?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228adc2f1ea4d946e2ad5c46cc25a4e80f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You may want to ask that question, but the Minister\u2019s not going to answer it. It\u2019s in the same category as the questions we had earlier: interesting but not particularly relevant to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e85379de902c45ecb17ab67a64965b5f\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: If the Government is concerned about subsidising wealthy people, why is the Government happy to give money\u2014billions of dollars in tax breaks\u2014to wealthy landlords when that does nothing to reduce emissions? Is it the case that this Government is happy to give money to rich people when it does nothing to reduce emissions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022207f0badd689451ba26192b823152fb3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, that question is out of order as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1b7dc7fc5d549fcbde5c70cb75011dd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5d3dcdde9e54dee9505f82f83dfa015\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5d3dcdde9e54dee9505f82f83dfa015\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What recent reports has she seen around distractions in classrooms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8acd6f7086741e6b51b356a212f4960\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8acd6f7086741e6b51b356a212f4960\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The 2022 Programme for International Student Assessment results released last week found that half of students said learners get distracted by using devices in every, or most, math lessons compared to 30 percent of students on average in the OECD. Many parents have expressed concerns about the use of cellphones at school, and research indicates that removing these distractions leads to an improvement in academic achievement, health, and other social benefits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfb3703453fa4604904a071c7d088f31\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226382913e5d344ca7a9e0ceb2fe573871\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mike Butterick. We\u2019ll just wait a minute for the House to go quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3693b33ad9c46bc815f8a22475e9a84\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. With respect, we\u2019re struggling to hear. So if we could just have some of the speakers move forward. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f8783b484c94bb7a819dd458c4ef3e9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, can the technicians just find out whether that mike is going as well as it could, but we will take the supplementary from Mike Butterick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e081e143b61847c5a11deacc9f1979e5\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Government plan to do about this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227746b1e843024d7b972ad8cd3e28c57a\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: To assist a turn-around in falling achievement, students need to focus on their schoolwork during their precious class time. That means doing what we can to eliminate unnecessary distractions. That is why, as part of our 100-day plan, the Government will ban cellphone use during the school day for students so they can focus on their learning. New Zealand schools that have banned cellphone use, and overseas jurisdictions that have imposed bans, report better concentration and engagement in class, and have seen an improvement in achievement and wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292deae6fb7bb45389753c5272060123f\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has the Minister heard around the banning of cellphones in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022494e239869264279a8f123f697852373\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Feedback from principals who have already imposed bans has been very positive. In a recent New Zealand Herald article: \u201COtago Boys\u2019 High School rector Richard Hall said banning cellphones during school hours was \u2018one of the best things I\u2019ve done\u2019.\u201D Hall said that since the policy was implemented \u201Cit was now normal to see boys interacting and playing together during breaks. Staff were also spending a lot less time dealing with cyber-bullying.\u201D A 14-year-old student from Hillmorton High School in Christchurch said, \u201CPeople are talking to each other more, rather than just sitting on their phones.\u201D She said, \u201CIn wh\u0101nau groups people are actually talking and socialising, getting to know people more. Also, you\u2019re not distracted by things on your phone and can focus more on your schoolwork.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297655cf165ef43009fe6b0f7d55b5c96\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Banning everything except smoking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aa6ff74bd664df2b7293cf391919d1b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, well, I\u2019m going to ban all commentary on all questions if we can\u2019t just be a little more orderly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022360fe594f9f244519b7d610c123d4a31\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: Does this change echo global trends around cellphone use in schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa296eec5c124341a627aae564b99771\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. More and more countries around the world are banning or considering a ban on cellphones in schools. This year, a Unesco report called for a global ban on smartphones in schools, and they found that the use of social media in the classroom is disruptive and has negative impacts on learning outcomes. The mere presence of a mobile device was found to distract students and have a negative impact on learning areas in 14 countries. The use of technology is associated with negative impacts on physical and mental wellbeing, and increased susceptibility to online risks and harms, which affect academic performance in the long term. And I suggest that if the Opposition have a further supplementary, they should take that opportunity, but I suggest that they probably won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022888ebd6a2c4445f680e929e9cba36119\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022dca84b1dc7114752bbf3200641d6820e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dca84b1dc7114752bbf3200641d6820e\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u002230615a22fe764548b64fbb48f03c04e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230615a22fe764548b64fbb48f03c04e8\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Associate Minister of Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: On behalf of the Minister, yes. I particularly stand by my statement on the New Zealand Health Survey that the results underline \u201Cjust how badly an urgent change in direction for health is required\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212f35f5dd3024d03a580ec0405ed9f89\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that the New Zealand Health Survey shows that the smoking prevalence for M\u0101ori is still 17 percent, and repealing amendments to the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Act will mean unacceptable levels of M\u0101ori cancers and M\u0101ori deaths, and aren\u2019t those outcomes worth showing some moral courage for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfaf02eabfdc4f37bc5743568940da12\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, this has been delegated to Minister Costello. What the Minister has said is that this Government is committed to reducing smoking rates. This Government is committed to reducing smoking rates and helping people quit smoking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225204bc996dcf4f1fb95663749d04e4fd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his answer last week that the target of 5 percent smoking prevalence was unlikely to be achieved, even with that Government\u2019s proposed policies, or does he agree with Dr Shane Reti MP\u2019s statement that the denicotinisation proposal \u201Cby itself, almost gets us to the smoke-free target that we\u2019re looking for.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022463d7be7673d43ca81359ac438819895\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, as I\u2019ve said to the House before, this has been delegated to Minister Costello.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1603464ec014457b8349d51b97c564c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Can he confirm that, following this flip-flop, the Government\u2019s health policy amounts to nothing but scrapping the free prescriptions initiative in order to fund cancer medicines while allowing more cancer-causing tobacco to fund millionaire\u2019s tax cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b0ae45390184585aa85d7c69cd418ae\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, this Government is committed to improving health outcomes for all New Zealanders, including M\u0101ori. Particular areas of need we\u2019re targeting are shorter stays in emergency departments, faster cancer treatment, improved immunisation, shorter wait times for first specialist assessment, and shorter wait times for surgery. I find it interesting with that member, who was part of a Government that took a wrecking ball to our health system in the middle of a pandemic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022588e938d76c6422eada442cc323b09d3\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to the thousands of people who marched, the 47,000 who signed a petition, and the 67 percent of voters who want our smoke-free laws to stay, and why won\u2019t he front up to them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a61fea3e04854910a0b2d96a76fd4326\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, this Government is committed to reducing smoking rates and helping people quit smoking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262dae7033a5444398178a404e64b81b5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Listen, we\u2019re going to have to make a bigger effort when questions are being asked. With all due respect to Dr Verrall, when she was asking her questions, a lot of the commentary was still coming from both sides of the House. Even though you\u2019re quick out of the blocks, you\u2019ve still got to show that respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c221a1e0fab84136b68ac6c998fa8d9c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1b23b1a2d6b4f22bd7b283d87d4acec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1b23b1a2d6b4f22bd7b283d87d4acec\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CThe dream I have for M\u0101ori is to lift pretty much every health metric we have to the level we have for non-M\u0101ori\u201D; if so, what actions, if any, will he take to achieve this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00220ccd2bbc5c4f49be8e2d4b5fa1332ee0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ccd2bbc5c4f49be8e2d4b5fa1332ee0\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Associate Minister of Health) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Health: Yes, and I stand by the rest of the quote where the Minister said, \u201CI think the hap\u016B probably know what\u2019s best for their communities.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd31b657da474819b84689ebda2c88f1\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: How will M\u0101ori health leadership be brought into the health sector when you intend to disestablish Te Aka Whai Ora?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3f2d57aa6b545cd8cd79a578473fb1c\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, can I point the member to another quote, \u201CMy dream is to devolve decision making and funding and give to mana motuhake as close to home and hap\u016B as possible.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022152fcba24bb944faa0e09cc997ba7696\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister proposing to repeal a structure that will enable Te Aka Whai Ora to take a local approach empowering hap\u016B, iwi, and wh\u0101nau through iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards and localities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8dea0c448b6490392f57a827ddd346b\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, as outlined in the Speech from the Throne, services will be delivered on need using a range of effective providers, including iwi and community groups, who have the best reach into the communities they serve. On this side of the House, we believe communities know what\u2019s best for their people, not Wellington.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200a8faa913374dbc895a2eb10d73dada\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: If he agrees that iwi and M\u0101ori are best placed to ensure our health system works well for M\u0101ori at a central level as well as through local devolution, then why not ensure this is resourced through Te Aka Whai Ora that was already established, instead of creating a new model?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022759e330de1b34c2abedb8a2635c0291d\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, if I can point that member to another quote from the story she\u2019s referenced: \u201CThe difference in philosophy on where we want to go and where the M\u0101ori Health Authority was going was why was all that funding held in Wellington with a Wellington-knows-best approach?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df2b7bc8777d4793b2979451da32bf5e\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he acknowledge that removing the smoke-free laws will mean more people will die from smoking while the only people who will benefit from this are landlords getting tax cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4e4149c02d946249b8d95dfa2a9d6c1\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister\u2014have stated in the House before, I have full confidence in Minister Costello, and to reaffirm this Government is committed to reducing smoking rates and helping people give up smoking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022534d892ee200434eace64e912f422383\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222efc2779cd514b1184d7acc7d33aca64\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: [Interruption] And the same rules apply. When the question is being asked, be quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00225f7b7aea53554bd49f3dc27e0df8463f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f7b7aea53554bd49f3dc27e0df8463f\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti: Is he planning on attending Waitangi 2024; if so, what preparations, if any, has started on behalf of the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7f5fcedf50645e1b4fe7093cb7f5734\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7f5fcedf50645e1b4fe7093cb7f5734\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. In response to the first p\u0101tai, and in my Wanganui dialect, ana. In response to the second p\u0101tai, planning is well under way across Government, and the calendar will be finalised shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c03e4b30bc54b12910090db271f53da\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister think that repealing section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act, disestablishing the M\u0101ori Health Authority, repealing smoke-free legislation, removing M\u0101ori names of Government departments, repealing fair pay agreements, and introducing a Treaty Principles Bill will enhance the M\u0101ori-Crown relationship, and, if so, will he and the Prime Minister be prepared to front up and discuss this at Waitangi 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243d0aa0338ec4f10af926b8fbb7191ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know the point of order that\u2019s about to be made, but I have to say, right at the cusp\u2014the Hon Willie Jackson brought it just inside the borders. It\u2019s not unreasonable that he lists some of the Government\u2019s policies and asks about their context in Crown-M\u0101ori relations, particularly given the venue that is a subject in the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262c836bc60724278aae9a85220870346\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: We look forward to a warm and cordial welcome by our Tai Tokerau whanaunga, where we will discuss many important\u2014of national significance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a7faf6b9cdb4cf0aa5c1d9a48295f01\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Minister, will he set time aside in the discussion or k\u014Drero at Waitangi, for Willie Jackson to explain why he lost all those M\u0101ori seats?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cbe4a5e07cf4e90b784058d3c709b5b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No response required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec90fbe6116e4860b11f91f2994f128f\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to answer it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb041b6b80544c4c9fa4d1bb396517bf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member can ask a question; he can\u2019t answer one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230d9e59f0fcc4153b39771776873cf61\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister ensure that the Prime Minister will be there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255001bc2014f489faa27c58309badb0d\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: E m\u0101rama ana au e whaiwhai haere ana te tari o te Pir\u012Bmia me \u014Dna \u0101piha kia whakarite mai te haere ki Waitangi, heoi an\u014D, kei te Pir\u012Bmia me t\u014Dna tari te mana whiriwhiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[I understand that the Prime Minister and his officials are working towards going to the Waitangi; however, the decision lies with the Prime Minister and his office.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271ef88ae89934b0fa1b4e904c9b5171f\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. You\u2019ll have to get your translations on, but I don\u2019t believe he\u2019s addressed the question. What do you think?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e10c3d6b6804d27bb862916aa1f6f26\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What do I think?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022081469e3d0ca4ae2b54aa16e375f1323\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: What do you think?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3b67c88e5674a7b8d75211166b0371e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think that was an excellent answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db08ec05512440ac81c5ffc3c6a5c7b2\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the statement of a young Tama Potaka when he said central government and local government need to consider sharing power with M\u0101ori instead of hoping that M\u0101ori entitlements and demands will be satisfied with policies that, effectively, mainstream M\u0101ori into P\u0101keh\u0101 society; if so, will he commit to discussing this at Waitangi 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287f3507fa8f14d51b97d7d50f344572d\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: National-led Governments have linked in and engaged with many M\u0101ori over time, including in Waikato, with the Waikato River settlement. That is a great reflection of working together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df8c0a52b6594f62900eb2acd29e8bac\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, point of order\u2014point of order. Mr Speaker, point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7cc83e4a6404a399d14388f404d886e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hold on\u2014no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffb5d80283e34f54a5e5c3728fe9939b\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, he didn\u2019t even go near the question\u2014didn\u2019t go near it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bab1e5010b546cbbb481aae7f27c45f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014Willie, please. I\u2019ll come back to you in a minute, right? So we\u2019ll just do things bit by bit. Sit right down. Good. Now, I\u2019m not sure who was on their feet first here. Supplementary, the Hon Chris Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022530dae43fde74dd180e4c4e7db1c1418\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: It was a point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266b2c6b527e44d22b95d5bbd240720fc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He didn\u2019t call\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8cdb746d6c9420bab3138da31ffec57\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: He did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226007dc96-f459-4cdd-9972-4fde2c994088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb99b5e33a2b4db5bc8e7b792e059910\u0022\u003EHon Grant Robertson\u003C/span\u003E: Very loudly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ad63ec66afa4110bc046e6f1c2a6c10\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014excuse me. Sorry, you can say what you like, but it\u2019s all on film.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df1e95f9125d4b9b90e3dfa6514a2126\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s good\u2014that\u2019s good. Great. We\u2019ll sort it out later!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebe35e7ace374fc08445e80d5908074c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, you sort it out later if you like, but, the way I took it, he started to tell me the point of order before he was called. Point of order, then\u2014Willie Jackson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c9ce9157ded45bf9dfbd091436eff39\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Speaker. You\u2019re doing a good job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d84348e4c584907b9766f4eecdf08bc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not feeling very good about it at the moment, and that could blow back on the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231156a63a1b3482e91313745c3186b96\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister did not address whether he agreed with the young Tama Potaka.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227610b623fe134aa99160d930ba01e070\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And if the member looks at his own primary question, even though he\u2019s expanded it\u2014and I\u2019ve been very generous to him\u2014it is so wide of the mark, it\u2019s not a reasonable question to ask him. So we\u2019ll let it go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249ff894dcf0842fe89d8ac31a6dd1e53\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Minister whether or not eight New Zealanders with M\u0101ori in their background in Cabinet is not evidence enough of equality and democratic representation in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224287f3a8c1ba4071acb20ffccca1cbd9\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m absolutely proud of there being the highest number of M\u0101ori members in the Cabinet that there ever has been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022668b0315a8c14377ac4fc5bfa4c0846d\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Congratulations about that, Tama. Can I seek leave to table a document? It\u2019s called \u201CA Treaty Agendum for Local Government\u201D, by Tama Potaka, where he is very clear\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286616e5fcd6d4fd69c7efc931ae9d7d9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Where does it come from? Is it published and is it available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a7634b2619941c7b3c1bf6391eb7ba7\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s been, but not widely. Many people in this\u2014in fact, probably no one in this House has read this, and it\u2019s really good reading. It\u2019s really good reading, so seeking leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b77973488cdf47c9bf158209d6fc48a2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now that the member\u2019s done the advertorial, a lot of people might seek it out to read it. But it\u2019s very available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225527ddd030794fe59f5ab88bba1854e7\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Will there be discussions at Waitangi 2024 about the failed TVNZ-RNZ merger\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220946fcbbc4bb49d9b9c467e43fd8414b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014that\u2019s out of order too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022542c95cf41a54de096a357663b2e9fb3\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022049e0fdfe7344d9f8fbf09614e2f4eac\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa693eaefa7645a09c045a1702d46f5e\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: You ruled, in relation to the primary question\u2019s original question, that a long list\u2014I think it was 10 items\u2014and whether or not those would be discussed at Waitangi 2024\u2014you said that that was within the scope. I, frankly, find that remarkable, but I\u2019m using the same formula.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222269bebd036f4a5f941b119d73ba6168\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You might find it remarkable, but I also said that the member could answer that because they were Government policies that were being asked about. Now, you can add to every Government policy if you like. At some point, I get to make a discretionary decision about whether it\u2019s a longer or shorter list\u2014it\u2019s been exhausted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f8ecb4dd6d643789076eab984368813\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Workplace Relations and Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u0022dfd7976f4e4c405ba3dd913c36accee3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dfd7976f4e4c405ba3dd913c36accee3\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: What steps has she taken to improve flexibility in the labour market?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3cfa908bb2849d7b89a488cac46b9d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3cfa908bb2849d7b89a488cac46b9d2\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Today I am pleased to announce that my bill to repeal the fair pay agreements system has passed its third reading in Parliament. By achieving this milestone, we are in the final stages of bringing about real change for businesses and workers that helps New Zealanders get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c268bc3f03f44408e0a38e2a879c804\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: How will repealing fair pay agreements and improving labour market flexibility benefit workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0df962e0c95423a8aa06dc5734d6ada\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: This Government wants to see higher wages and better conditions for workers, especially during a cost of living crisis. Repealing the fair pay agreements legislation gives businesses the certainty they need to invest and grow, creating more and better jobs. By repealing the fair pay agreements, we will have improved labour market flexibility, which has been a pillar for New Zealand\u2019s economic success for the past three decades. This Government has removed these one-size-fits-all agreements, which have no place in an economy where innovation is key. The best and most sustainable way to increase the wages of workers and to achieve lower prices for consumers is to improve productivity and to reduce the regulations that hold businesses back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225293e5481be148b1a39ddd59dacf9348\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: What message would the Minister have for those who opposed the repeal of fair pay agreements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c8d07dfb327447e91d358f1e4a6f6f9\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: There has been a lot of scaremongering around the repeal of the fair pay agreements. I do wish to clarify a few points. First, I want to make it clear that no worker will have their wages cut or be worse off, because no fair pay agreements were finalised. Secondly, M\u0101ori, Pasifika, young people, and women will not be harmed or made worse off by the repeal of the fair pay agreements, because no fair pay agreement was finalised. The minimum standards in employment law remain, including the minimum wage, health and safety law, and leave entitlements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022731f9e57de5348adb12a3e1b5894dd5d\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to the 200,000 to 300,000 workers who would\u2019ve benefited from fair pay agreements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf3b7fcdb14d4d6696661ea6a42962de\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: No fair pay agreements had been finalised. All bargaining was in very early stages and everybody can be certain that their current entitlements remain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224823cb0caece4a2cb8a3731b3560b6c3\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: What other plans does the Minister have to increase flexibility in the labour market?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2bba6a3a1a14735b1319a41bcb24d1f\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN\u003C/span\u003E: Next week, I will be introducing a bill to the House to expand access to 90-day trials to employers. Whether a business has two or 200 employees, bringing on any new employee costs time, it costs money, and it is in the best interests of any business to find the right fit. Expanding access to 90-day trials will give workers access to new opportunities they would otherwise not have. They allow employers to employ someone who might not tick all the boxes, but a person who might have the right attitude. By delivering on this Government\u2019s commitment to extend the availability of 90-day trials, this Government will give all businesses greater confidence to employ more Kiwis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002266edd77678d64390ac5ca2fc9862f374\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u002252348a65f34a405fad991f3244dbbdb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002252348a65f34a405fad991f3244dbbdb3\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: What reports has he seen on the export revenue forecasts for the primary sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00225b424a11abaf46c1a48badf9f392d407\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b424a11abaf46c1a48badf9f392d407\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E The Situation and Outlook for Primary Industries report released today shows a forecast dip in export revenue. Exports hit a high of $57.7 billion this year but are forecast to drop to $54.3 billion in the year to June 2024. It\u2019s been a tough few years for New Zealand\u2019s food and fibre businesses. However, it\u2019s still a strong result against a backdrop of very challenging times. The Government will be working with the primary sector to ensure they are productive and remain world\u2019s best-practice food and fibre producers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3a4bd4ec6ae43f0bed5bd8dc9dad161\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What else is this coalition Government doing to help farmers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223812a06e04f84a10982983c52e3a4abd\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: We will be supporting our primary sector businesses through targeting a doubling of the value of exports over 10 years. We think we should measure ourselves more on how much we export and sell overseas by value, not just by volume. Non-tariff barriers cost New Zealand agriculture around $8 billion each year. We\u2019re committed to working to resolve barriers that are preventing New Zealand\u2019s world-class primary industry sectors from doing business with the world. We understand that part of growing value is getting more return for what we already export, and I\u2019m delighted to work closely with the sector to see what else we should do to supercharge the support to businesses. We\u2019re determined to the break down barriers that are such a drag on their product productivity and growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278b840c20a7e41ff94103f143ee7baa7\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What benefit can our primary sector expect to see from this work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022934f129abaaf42f59f10db46ffbe9966\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is going to champion the significant achievements the primary sector has made at home and abroad. The sector accounts are 81.9 percent of New Zealand\u2019s goods exports to the year June 2023. Food and fibre export revenue growth has exceeded the non-primary industries for seven of the last 10 years. Adding indirect effects, we estimate that the food and fibre sector contributions to GDP increased by 16 percent. They\u2019re responsible for 13 percent of employment. When rural New Zealand does well, all of New Zealand does well, and when the rural economy is strong, New Zealand\u2019s economy is strong. The coalition Government trusts farmers. We\u2019ll be working to get costs down; better rules, not more regulations; supercharge the rural economy so farmers can be proud of what they do. We have stopped Labour\u2019s war against farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221d49eb87a9234d54a37936c5353b5990\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00224f792a8830194caea1d4e0484d107998\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f792a8830194caea1d4e0484d107998\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6da6ea386ef468db05f9ed82e75f279\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6da6ea386ef468db05f9ed82e75f279\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and, in particular, actions to repeal Labour\u2019s inequitable and fiscally irresponsible ute tax by 31 December as part of our coalition Government\u2019s hundred-day plan. Can I thank the support from the ACT Party and the New Zealand First Party for this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2330b0062444a7689802163ee028119\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022389a8e70bac94bfb8373ae8c8b31cd51\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he\u2019s trying to speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212c4420001ec4071bae2c304a964ea15\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statements on a regulatory impact statement for the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill: \u201CI believe one has been drafted.\u201D and \u201CI believe it would be published.\u201D; if so, when will it be published?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d78bc5a6442408b81179d3280f603d4\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said in answer to earlier questions, there is a draft and it will be published.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef07e9657b8e42ab9037e60dedf83d50\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, the question was quite clear in terms of timing, and I submit to you that\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b0fe9d5016f4a9ba29e1b5567383fbf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, excuse me\u2014points of order will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa8a24ae1b0a4693a80525b727165f51\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: The question was quite clear in terms of timing, and I submit to you that the member has failed to address the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df8b046b4bc64d159c7d96a6aff8dfa0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but it was the second leg of the question. Ministers must address one of the legs of a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229af04ad44ba349a09364e9b2f9fa7616\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Christopher Luxon: \u201CI believe transparency is important, openness is important.\u201D, and \u201CTalking straight to the New Zealand people about outcomes and the achievement of them, or not, [it\u2019s] how you get judged as a Government.\u201D; if so, why is he refusing to release the regulatory impact statement before the final vote on the bill later today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a680aac404e4292b5172c4e47b48ea0\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I always agree with the Prime Minister, who is getting our country back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d65c558cb2004d18ba72febf41711e4d\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Does he really think that telling journalists and members\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a32509d93c8b40579e01a74ab3d127d5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, just a minute\u2014start again. You\u2019ve got to be quiet when people are asking questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c920bb34442f48f48d1d96344b7d6681\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does he really think that telling journalists and members to just OIA a regulatory impact statement and continue to refuse to provide it to the Parliament meets National\u2019s coalition agreement that \u201Cdecisions will be based on data and evidence\u201D; if so, how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022295bed299e1345d48b0c58ef547b3a1b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said in answer to earlier questions, the document will be released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d80e7c47f719463da3b9ded120961567\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002282748b2368b54c80877f8e1dcd135eda\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000770\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022643dc6053c954e46aa048deb4de034dc\u0022\u003EPart 2 Amendments, repeals, and revocations concerning other enactments (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef7c894409ee4825b410913f674520c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef7c894409ee4825b410913f674520c2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, when the committee suspended on the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill, we were debating Part 2. Part 2 is the debate on clauses 18 to 26, \u201CAmendments, repeals, and revocations concerning other enactments\u201D and Schedules 3 and 4. The question, again, is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022af078d2672ea4a0caff20bb12369c335\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af078d2672ea4a0caff20bb12369c335\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. Thank you very much. I have been taking a call since the debate on Part 2 started, so I really appreciate the opportunity to take this call. I have some questions for the Minister. Clause 26 in Part 2 revokes all of the regulations of the Land Transport Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme charges, and those, I believe, are the regulations which put in place the charges related to the carbon emissions of the vehicle. So my question to the Minister is about the impact this will have on New Zealand\u2019s carbon budget beyond the first budget, beyond 2025. What advice has he received on the impact out to 2030? Has he asked any questions about the fiscal risk or cost of not meeting our 2030 carbon budget and the potential penalties from the EU, given that our free-trade agreement (FTA) with the EU specifies that we will be taking action, and if we are not seen to be taking serious action to meet our 2030 commitments, there will be penalties under that FTA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo I guess my question to the Minister is just really about the advice that he\u2019s received about modelling of the impacts, beyond 2025, of repealing these regulations, what impacts that will have on the vehicles supplied into the New Zealand market to the average emissions of the vehicles in the fleet, and then whether or not he\u2019s received any advice about a risk or fiscal cost related to increased emissions as a result of repealing this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIn addition to those questions, I haven\u2019t had a chance to go up and check the Table to see if we did get an enlarged picture of the energy economy label.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265f2c750ee644a4da4128cdedf665a40\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: It is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d015104ef1d4c2a9a77d9c4078596cb\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s great. I\u2019ll have to go and look at that more closely so that I can read all of the wording on that energy economy label.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut I guess, firstly, I\u2019d like to thank the Minister and the Government for retaining the energy efficiency labelling. That level of consumer information is extremely important so that people can easily assess the vehicle that they\u2019re looking at buying, what it might cost to run, what the carbon emissions related to it might be. I think it is a useful label. But I\u2019m wondering if the Minister has received any specific advice on what impact the label would have on consumer behaviour relative to a price incentive. Because we know from the Climate Commission report that was released the day before yesterday that the Climate Commission has provided evidence and a recommendation to the Government that there needs to be a specific step taken to deal with the upfront cost barriers of purchasing a lower- or zero-emissions vehicle. That\u2019s exactly what the Clean Car Discount was designed to address. It was to reduce cost barriers to getting into low-emissions and zero-emissions vehicles for New Zealanders. So I\u2019m just wondering if he has any advice on how the label will actually make it easier for people to purchase a vehicle compared to an actual discount in price, which would address the fundamental barrier that has been pointed out by the Climate Commission to the Government that we need to address the cost barriers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll just summarise my questions one more time, because I realise I\u2019ve said quite a few, and I want to make sure the Minister has an opportunity to answer them. Did he receive any advice about the risk or fiscal cost to New Zealand of not meeting our 2030 carbon reduction commitments as a result of repealing this legislation? And what impact would a labelling scheme have on consumer behaviour? But especially what impact would it have relative to a price incentive which actively reduces the cost of getting into a zero-emissions vehicle relative to a very high-emissions vehicle?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022035b4b5dbd204cd9be8a6d92862fdf16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022035b4b5dbd204cd9be8a6d92862fdf16\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. Further to the very good question that the Hon Julie Anne Genter just posed\u2014and I note that these were questions that went unanswered in Part 1 of the legislation. The House and the committee did not receive any information about what advice around emissions the Minister considered when making this decision. I think, given that we are not going through a select committee process and given that the House is not being released all the information that the Minister holds in the form of the regulatory impact statement, this committee of the whole House has a responsibility to understand the information that the Minister had there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo in addition to the emissions information that the Minister did or did not receive\u2014because, of course, this Part 2 is about the administration of what we\u2019ve just done in Part 1 of the bill. So when we\u2019re coming to this Part 2, that is still very pertinent, Mr Chairman. What I\u2019d like to add to that is, of course\u2014and it is linked to the emissions question\u2014that the demonstration pathway, as outlined by the Climate Commission, has some very specific targets around what needs to be met in order to meet those emissions reductions. That is that from 2025 to 2030, we need to see our annual light electric vehicle (EV) registrations climb from 11 percent to 67 percent of the market, and reach 100 percent by 2035. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI think the Hon Julie Anne Genter put it very well around whether or not that label that is covered off in this part is going to be enough to form that switch. We\u2019ve already heard from the Minister that he thinks the mechanism for inducing people to do the switch will be the emissions trading scheme (ETS). Of course, that requires the evidence that is in the public domain\u2014that requires an ETS pricing of $235 a tonne, which will have around an 80c a litre, or more, impact on the price of petrol. So I think it\u2019s useful to understand exactly where the Government\u2019s coming from, of where they see the levers, and that is a price hike of 80c-odd a litre of petrol, rather than giving people the clean car rebate. So it\u2019s good to get that out and flesh out that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EMy other point in the first part of the debate\u2014and I just want to ensure that we\u2019re going to have this labelling on our second-hand vehicles, and that that practice will continue. What I was able to get to share with the House was the evidence that\u2019s there around the uptake on new to New Zealand used vehicles that have been such a big part of this scheme. So when we have the Opposition talking about this just being a middle-class subsidy for wealthy people to go and buy Teslas, that\u2019s not always the case\u2014clearly it sometimes is, but not always the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI do note that in the first part of the bill, my colleague Tangi Utikere put forward a motion to allow those people who feel so strongly that this is a bad scheme but none the less may have taken up the scheme themselves\u2014we wanted to introduce a provision so that they could pay that money back directly to the Crown. But I do note that the Government didn\u2019t want that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EIn terms of the ability to\u2014I just want the Minister to confirm that this information will continue to be on second-hand vehicles. That\u2019s because that is such an important part of how it is we can ensure equity outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut also not only new to New Zealand used vehicles, what we will increasingly see\u2014and one of the things that the Clean Car Discount has been really important for is actually creating a second-hand market of cars in New Zealand so that we will feed through that all of those brand new EVs eventually become second-hand cars. So will we continue within that not only new to New Zealand but the EVs that have been previously purchased as new cars, but then as they enter the second-hand market, will they continue to have that labelling so people can make those decisions around that, and we can ensure that we are fuelling that second-hand market?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022e011652ebae249d29e0109d69fb91f44\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e011652ebae249d29e0109d69fb91f44\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you to the members for their questions. As I\u2019ve answered numerous times\u2014and I\u2019m not sure if it\u2019s actually relevant to Part 2 in relation to the question of the carbon impact, but I\u2019ll answer it anyway\u2014as I\u2019ve said, advice I\u2019ve received shows that this does not impact on our ability to meet the carbon budget for the 2025 period, and that is something I\u2019ve answered. Again, it\u2019s not actually relevant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe part we\u2019re dealing with here is, effectively, amendments to the Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2011 and amendments to Energy Efficiency (Vehicle Energy Economy Labelling) Regulations. I do note that the member did have some questions in relation to the labels, and I\u2019m very pleased to see the new labels, which I hope members have received. They\u2019re bigger. You can now read the labels. One is in colour and one is in black and white.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242f964c1a8af43a68c2e179fba67bdd3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: I like the colour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d25ddc25b9754f4fab76a1f636d78eea\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I prefer colour as well\u2014it\u2019s blue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut what I would say is that the changes that are being made here simply are to revoke the regulation which requires that the label includes information about the Clean Vehicle Discount, because, of course, this repeals that legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022522a5427b29f4e3ba02255f28d2a1fbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022522a5427b29f4e3ba02255f28d2a1fbf\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana meitaki maata. Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the Minister for some of those responses. It\u2019s pleasing to see that that label has been provided because it did cause some concern prior\u2014well, earlier in the day\u2014that things couldn\u2019t be seen. I wonder whether the Minister, once he\u2019s now seen it in colour or in black and white, whichever he chooses\u2014actually it would be quite good to have the regulatory impact statement (RIS) that everyone knows about, whether it\u2019s in colour or black and white, I don\u2019t think members really mind. Just having it would be quite helpful. You know, digitally or even soft copy, hard copy, just having the RIS I think would be quite helpful, particularly given that, you know, we don\u2019t have a select committee process, so the need of the House and this committee to scrutinise what\u2019s currently before it is really, really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe will leave that with the Minister because we haven\u2019t seemed to see much action in that space today. But there is still hope because the final vote on this bill hasn\u2019t been taken yet. So there still is an opportunity for the Minister to provide that to inform the committee and the House\u2019s thinking as to whether this bill should proceed or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EHaving said that, I wonder whether the Minister has had a chance to see whether there were any other gaps, because I note that my colleague Camilla Belich has a tabled Amendment Paper that does seek to insert new clause 22A. It does relate to the ability for sellers and importers of vehicles to identify a value that would have been applicable had the scheme not been repealed. I think that\u2019s really important because it lends itself to how seriously some of these decisions are taken, but also that it\u2019s going to be an opportunity to display that on the energy economy label as well. So I\u2019ll leave that with the Minister, and any other gaps that he may have as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI do think it\u2019s also important to just hear from the Minister about the price differential between electric vehicles and non-electric vehicles (EVs). You know, all the evidence seems to suggest that that will narrow over time. And I\u2019m sure that having a best evidence - based approach is one that the Minister, I\u2019m sure, would appreciate, in practice and in reality. I just wonder whether there are any comments around why the life of the scheme perhaps shouldn\u2019t be extended as a result of that\u2014that narrowing of that price differential over time, that there is a justification there about, well, why not extend the life of the scheme to allow that narrowing to get to the point where, effectively, there is an equilibrium, I think would be quite helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI wonder whether, also, in terms of Part 2 which is around the administration, the Minister had given any thoughts to possibly decreasing the discount threshold\u2014that\u2019s actually very important. My colleague the Hon Dr Megan Woods talks about the importance of labelling being applied to second-hand vehicles that are new to New Zealand. That\u2019s important, but also the accessibility to the market is equally important in making sure that that is the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI want to just very briefly touch on my amendment that has been tabled, and my colleague Dr Woods has already referred to that. It does seek to in clause 26 insert a new part within the Schedule, and that relates to an ability to have a purchase arrangement in place, Minister, by the end of 31 December 2023, and if that is the case, then the rebate would still be applicable. Now, we have heard previously that members of our community can just go on out to a lot, get a car before then, and all will be sorted and sweet. The reality is that most people who would look to use this as an incentive can\u2019t just go out and pick up an EV off the lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, if this was an opportunity to say, \u201CLook there is provision, let\u2019s have arrangements in place at the end of 31 December, let\u2019s honour those arrangements\u201D, in terms of those households who\u2014and many of us have referred to this in contributions in this Chamber already\u2014have been thinking about getting an EV and have made that decision. I think I\u2019d be interested to hear the thoughts on the Minister\u2019s approach, or the Government\u2019s approach, to, basically, penalise those members who may be planning to do this in the lead-up to Christmas, but for whatever reason they don\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb3719f785f1482e8354d312d16f6dbf\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: All I want for Christmas is an EV.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ca66fe5d15043d8a6eb8b4ba1ff8f1d\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: All I want for Christmas is an EV. And I think, you know, it might be an opportunity to provide a level of fairness for those that may wish to have that as their Christmas present come this Christmas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7f64bc2bc2249f38bd2e93bd47f312a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7f64bc2bc2249f38bd2e93bd47f312a\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It has been a long day after another very long day, and yet I\u2019m yet to get any answer to the question I\u2019ve asked more than once to the Minister of Transport. It is really important. It\u2019s important for many in our rural communities who are leaders or are keen to be leaders in reducing emissions that I get an answer to this question. I would like to encourage the Minister, firstly, to visit Mike Casey\u2019s electric orchard near Cromwell and see what rural leadership is in electrification for our rural communities and to show New Zealand leaders how we can change things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI would like to hear from the Minister an understanding of the proportion of fees and rebates that are paid and received by rural communities, and what is the proportion of fees and rebates that are paid and received by urban communities\u2014noting that many in rural communities drive Leafs, not simply utes; noting that many in urban communities drive Ford Rangers and other large vehicles that are a danger to children on bikes. You don\u2019t really need them to get through the supermarket challenges. So, to the Minister, please, can I have an answer, or will you continue to dodge?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022be724eb006c846e9a20babf6beca2b78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be724eb006c846e9a20babf6beca2b78\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I thank the members for their questions. I note member Tangi Utikere was referring to a tabled amendment in the name of Camilla Belich which suggested that there should be continued identification of what the rebate values would\u2019ve been if the scheme had not been repealed. This adds no value as we\u2019re discontinuing the scheme. We don\u2019t support that tabled amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI note there\u2019s a tabled amendment by the Hon Julie Anne Genter which seeks to extend the scheme by, I think, six years. Obviously, we don\u2019t support that, because it\u2019s not within the Government\u2019s policy intent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI thank the member Scott Willis for his question. You know, this part that we\u2019re dealing with here is dealing with amendments to the Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2011, amendments to energy efficiency labelling, revocation of land transport regulations. The question I don\u2019t think fits within the part that we\u2019re debating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u00228d6b8cf90ab0486a8ec4371a2321e714\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d6b8cf90ab0486a8ec4371a2321e714\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca5ed56437914d3ea0f76a95921e2b80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca5ed56437914d3ea0f76a95921e2b80\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. There\u2019s still a number of questions that I have about the labels, and I\u2019d like to thank the Minister and his officials for getting down copies that members in this Chamber can read so they can ask the questions. I have to say, if I had to choose between the colour and the black and white version, I\u2019m going black and white. Blue\u2019s not really my colour. The Minister asked us to state a preference in terms for the kind of copy we want, so when it comes for releasing the regulatory impact statement we\u2019d quite like that, whichever way\u2014colour or black and white will work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut my question about this is whether the Minister sought any advice or gave any thought to other information that could be on the label. Of course, Part 2 of the bill is all about what is the label, and the changes that are being made to the label. One of the things that we do know is that in other jurisdictions where you have had increased uptake of electric vehicles (EVs)\u2014so usually one of the triggers of getting rid of a rebate scheme is actually that you get to price parity between an EV and an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle, so that the need for there to be assistance is no longer necessary, because there isn\u2019t that delta in terms of the capital expenditure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s a couple of ways in which this could be expressed on the label. I was giving this a great deal of thought, and one of the things that I think would be the most useful way for it to be expressed on the label would be the marginal abatement cost that sat around that vehicle. So I want to know from the Minister: did he receive advice on the marginal abatement cost of this policy? If so, what was that advice? What is the marginal abatement cost of both the Clean Car Discount but also the marginal abatement cost of removing this policy? I think this is the kind of information\u2014the marginal abatement cost\u2014that would help consumers to make really good decisions. They would know, then, in terms of the benefit that was flowing through to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I am mindful of is that it is very rare for climate change policies to have a negative marginal abatement cost. What I mean by negative abatement cost\u2014it means that people will be better off because of the policy. Actually, the Clean Car Discount was one of those policies that did have a marginal abatement cost\u2014and certainly there is\u2014which we released when we passed the law, because it is useful to have that information. They had a marginal abatement cost per tonne of between minus $170 and $199.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI want to know whether the Minister has received information on the marginal abatement costs of removing the policy\u2014i.e., how much worse off New Zealanders are going to be, or how much better off New Zealanders will be as a result of his policy change, and whether he has given any thought for that being the kind of information that could be displayed on the label. Because it\u2019s not only the efficiency that consumers will want; it\u2019s important information. One of the things that we know and all the research shows us is, actually, people are doing their sums and working out whether that extra expenditure\u2014that extra capital expenditure\u2014upfront is something that makes sense for them and their families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00225361799de62a45e9bb415786bb7393cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225361799de62a45e9bb415786bb7393cf\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Since the Minister referred to it, I did want to take a call to speak to my proposed tabled amendment and the reason for it. So the reason why I\u2019ve tabled an amendment suggesting that they phase out the Clean Car Discount at 2030 instead of now or some years in the future is because we know that, as the Minister has often stated himself, over time the vehicle manufacturers are moving to produce entirely zero-emissions vehicles. So there\u2019s just this gap, now, between now and when that happens, where we need to take steps to address price parity, and that\u2019s the purpose of a policy like this. It\u2019s not meant to last for ever; it\u2019s meant to last as a transition to shift the vehicles being offered and also to shift the demand profile from, you know, businesses and New Zealanders so that we shift the average tailpipe emissions to be lower than what they would otherwise be. That\u2019s the point of Government intervention at this point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EEvery vehicle purchased between now and 2030 is going to lock in 20 years at least of emissions. If we can influence the market so that we\u2019re selling lower-emissions vehicles here in New Zealand, we\u2019re bringing in, we\u2019re importing, more low- and zero-emissions vehicles. That means that we\u2019ll have reduced emissions over a long period of time, and, as the Hon Megan Woods was just saying, of course that has a positive economic benefit for New Zealanders because they\u2019re spending less money on fuel. So at the same time that we\u2019re reducing carbon emissions, we have an added benefit of spending less money on imported petrol and diesel, and that\u2019s a direct productivity gain; it actually helps us with our current account deficit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t know if the Minister is aware\u2014but he might be interested to know, especially with his portfolios\u2014that currently our imports of vehicles and fuel to run them exceed the value of our exports in dairy. So all of our dairy exports are not even covering the cost of the cars that we need to use and the fuel that we need to use to use our transport system. So there\u2019s a huge opportunity there to reduce our current account deficit. Obviously, lots of people are going to continue carrying on driving their petrol and diesel vehicles, and that\u2019s fine. But this policy, the purpose of it is to make it easier for more New Zealanders to access low-emissions and zero-emissions vehicles and that has economic benefits for us, it has environmental benefits. It\u2019s really a win-win policy, and if the Minister and the Government were to accept my amendment it would mean that the policy would continue for that period of time that we\u2019re waiting for the global market to completely transition to zero-emissions vehicles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI would also note that the reason vehicle manufacturers are moving in this direction is because most other countries have policies like clean car standards and clean car discounts or other price incentives at the point of sale that are deliberately targeted at reducing emissions from the vehicle fleet. And we know that relying on fuel being in the emissions trading scheme (ETS) will not work to that end. It does not work. It will not work. That\u2019s why fuel is not in the ETS in Europe and I would be totally fine with fuel being taken out of the ETS here if it meant we could have a policy that was more effective like the Clean Car Discount. But, of course, European countries largely have much higher fuel taxes than we do, and maybe that would help the Government close the gap in its infrastructure spend, because it\u2019s promised a huge infrastructure spend with no revenue really to pay for it. I think they\u2019re going to be very unhappy when they realise how much costs have inflated compared to the prices that they put in their manifesto for those so-called \u201Croads of national significance\u201D, which are really roads of private greenfields-developer significance, particularly in the Auckland region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut seriously, Minister, seriously\u2014he says the market\u2019s going in this direction and we\u2019re going to be mainly offered zero-emissions vehicles, hopefully, by 2030. How do we close the gap between now and 2030? The Minister\u2019s only referred to meeting our emissions budgets to 2025, not beyond 2025. Obviously, there will be penalties and fiscal risk for New Zealand if we aren\u2019t on track to meet our emissions reduction commitments by 2030, beyond 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022eafb904a6cf54ce99dc8d0f1300125c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eafb904a6cf54ce99dc8d0f1300125c3\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Some further questions have been raised by members. I note that the Hon Megan Woods asked whether I\u2019d received further advice on the label. No, I had not asked for further advice on the label, but I\u2019m glad we can now read it. It\u2019s good to see that it\u2019s big enough to read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe other question was in regards to other jurisdictions, and I just would like to note that the New South Wales Labour Government is ending subsidies for electric vehicles (EVs) on the same date that we will be ending subsidies on EVs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI note the Hon Julie Anne Genter continues to ask questions about her tabled amendment. I\u2019ve already said we don\u2019t support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002298d8febb28f74242866b552ae6857661\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298d8febb28f74242866b552ae6857661\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I note that the Minister in the chair, the Minister of Transport, for this part of the bill gave a previous answer that referred to emissions budget (EB) 1. What he was asked about, he has answered, about emissions budget 1, under this part of the bill\u2014and I thank the Minister for that. He said New Zealand is on track to meet emissions budget 1, and that is absolutely the case. And a big part of how New Zealand is going to meet emissions budget 1 is because of the reduction in transport emissions, largely driven by the uptake in electric vehicles that the Clean Car Discount has brought around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut what we still want to know, despite asking multiple times and not hearing from the Minister, is what the impact will be on EB2 and EB3. I think they\u2019re the ones that have the most consideration. Certainly EB2 is the focus of the Climate Change Commission\u2019s advice that was released this week, which makes it abundantly clear that if we are going to see the uptake that we need to get baked into our emissions reduction plans\u2014if we\u2019re going to see that uptake, there do need to be supplementary measures. People aren\u2019t going to make the shift of their own volition at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m really interested to know what advice he\u2019s had, and given the Minister\u2019s already alluded to EB1 under this part of the bill, I\u2019d like to hear more from him around emissions budget 2 and even out to emissions budget 3. And, of course, his Government will have to start putting together emissions budget 4 in the not too distant future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EObviously, the Government can repeal things and is repealing things, but one of the things that we did change in the last Parliament\u2014actually, I think it was the Parliament before, and there was cross-party support for it\u2014is we now have a framework that if you remove something that is baked into an emissions plan, you need to say what you\u2019re substituting it for\u2014what is going to be put in its stead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI can\u2019t imagine the Minister is saying that on 1 January the Government will be raising the emissions trading scheme price to $235, because that has been the answer that he\u2019s given for what will drive the uptake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EBut if the Minister is saying that on 1 January the Government is planning to raise the emissions trading scheme price, the unit price, to $235 a tonne, then I think New Zealanders probably need to know because when they\u2019re coming back from their summer holidays, they\u2019ll be paying around 80c a litre more for their gas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002277ea239766f842d992549e255e7458a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277ea239766f842d992549e255e7458a8\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Chair. I still have a few questions that I\u2019d like to cover off. Just looking at Part 2, there is reference to Schedule 2\u2014which we\u2019ll come to in due course\u2014but I do want to just identify that, obviously, colour is quite important because it\u2019s referenced there in the section around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EBut my question to the Minister is whether he is comfortable that the time frame for the administrative functions in terms of winding things up that might come post 31 December 2023, if this bill is enacted\u2014whether that is sufficient; whether he has received any advice relating to whether there might be a need to delay that somewhat or have some provision within Part 2, or indeed within Schedule 2, that might provide an opportunity if things were not winding up by the particular time in question; that there was provision around that. I think that is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other is about the cost of winding things up, as they relate to the administration of it and whether there is provision for that. Can I just turn to the specifics of Schedule 2, because it is referenced in clause\u2014well, within Part 2, specifically, its first mention comes from clause 22 and then clause 25 as well. It identifies a range of particular purposes for which that close the financial year, which ends on 30 June 2024, would kick in. I know that there is an Amendment Paper on the Table that relates to clause 2, which we\u2019ll come to, around the particular time that things would wind up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EBut I wonder whether the Minister has any thoughts or whether he\u2019s received any particular advice as to whether or not any of those specific elements or purposes that are contained in clause 15 of Schedule, (a) through to (e), might be impinged or there is to be some impediment. Now, the reason why I\u2019m referencing that is because Part 2 is where the reference to Schedule 2 comes in\u2014specifically, as I\u2019ve already said, clause 22 and clause 25.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo I wonder whether the Minister has any comments on that. And I still haven\u2019t quite received a response around whether or not there is some justification for having a purchase agreement reference in there. Again, we haven\u2019t had an opportunity to hear from people about what they think about this bill as part of the parliamentary process, and so I would be grateful if the Minister could turn his mind to those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022014ef83960a7465b8325c3944a47d2c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022014ef83960a7465b8325c3944a47d2c9\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m hoping this is raising an issue that we may not have had a bit of a deep dive into. It\u2019s still on the emissions reduction plan, but in the area of light vehicles, light fleet, and the potential\u2014well, not the potential but also\u2014so the target from the emissions reduction plan was to increase zero-emissions vehicles to 30 percent of the light fleet by 2035. So I\u2019m wondering if we have had enough response from the Minister around the impact of this repeal on that target from the emissions reduction plan. We can link that target to the Climate Change Commission\u2019s advice released just this week, which shows that the emissions trading scheme alone is insufficient to substantially move people away from fossil fuel - powered vehicles. So what then? What then is the actual plan and the vision for moving people to the solutions and supporting our communities and our people, moving to the way that the world is going to have to adapt rather than clinging with desperation to an old world with old energy and dirty energy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223164da57cb904681858fb2314f950c9d\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve been listening closely to the last several speakers now, and at the beginning of this committee stage, I sought leave to have all provisions taken as one debate so that we could have a more free-flowing debate across the breadth of the bill. That leave was declined by the other side, which, of course, then requires them to stick quite tightly within the confines of the specific parts as we\u2019re going through, and we\u2019re straying quite a wee way from that, I would suggest, across the last several speakers, Mr Chair, and I\u2019ll just ask your view on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247235fe8d9b943a0be82c1b1c9f75329\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: I absolutely agree that it is important to take this part by part, and perhaps I should have been clearer that my repeal in my speech at least\u2014I know I can\u2019t speak for others\u2014is specifically pulling into Part 2 the amendments, repeals, and revocations concerning other enactments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aacd759260f74f95b51bf639f83f70ad\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Just for members\u2019 awareness, we are starting to stray from Part 2. There have been some contributions which have been focused on Part 2, but we are starting to drift. When we start to drift, we start to get repetitive, then we\u2019ll need to move this debate on. Anyone wants the call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca2d0d160401423b89992c2b74be212d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca2d0d160401423b89992c2b74be212d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chair. I\u2019m just seeking your guidance. I understand the need and the necessity not to have repetition at the committee stage. But you can see the dilemma that members are in in this Chamber, Mr Chair, when we simply aren\u2019t getting answers to questions that have been asked. So we\u2019re seeking some guidance from you Mr Chairman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c0c1be637b44a468b66abff30b19612\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll take a few more calls and see where we go, but people are drifting, and then we\u2019ll have to move this debate on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002223be14546e9940abb68faf4d6e127c37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223be14546e9940abb68faf4d6e127c37\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I still am yet to receive\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285ab7064d75d4664955e8dfed746945b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: And if we can focus on Part 2, that would be helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d44e4fd993e242baa602bc9b28fc49f8\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes\u2014a response from the Minister about the purchase arrangements being put in place, which actually is specifically on the tabled Amendment Paper in my name, and it does relate to Part 2. Perhaps members opposite do need me to go through that again, so I\u2019m very happy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b58fe51f727140089cb31c427eb469e4\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: I think you should read it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272a0f309c75d43c3839c180618790132\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very happy to. For clarity, the amendment seeks to, in clause 26, in new Part 7 of Schedule 1 of the Land Transport Act, add new clause 28 after clause 27. If I just draw that to members\u2019 attention, that is contained there, but it also relates to the transitional provision for vehicles purchased before the close of 31 December 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI think that there is a really interesting point here, as well, that I think my colleague the Hon Rachel Brooking has some comment on, in terms of an Amendment Paper in her name that relates to what that actually means\u2014these dates that relate to the close of 31 December 2023, and other dates that are contained here\u2014and whether there needs to be some specificity, which I think is why my colleague the Hon Rachel Brooking has suggested, I think, midnight. You know, the reality is that if you\u2019re looking to register a vehicle, a motor vehicle\u2014and it\u2019s the application or the administration process for which Part 2 is responsible, as I understand it. People need to know what that actually means. Does it mean that it\u2019s going to be at 5 o\u2019clock when the shop closes? Does it mean that you can go online and take care of those aspects at 11.59 p.m. Does it mean that if you\u2019re on there at 11.58 but you hit at 12, you\u2019re not captured? This is important information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, members opposite may not like to hear this, because, again, I remind the committee, and I remind the public of Aotearoa New Zealand, that we are in urgency\u2014those who, again, are tuning in, thinking, \u201CWhy is it that the Parliament continues to sit?\u201D It\u2019s because they want to know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EYou know, I think what we also need to reflect on is the fact that we are leading into Christmas. Christmas is upon us. People need to know certainty. You know, this is a Government that seems intent on simply rushing this through, during a state of urgency, to get things done. Now, there is no problem in having a line in the sand in terms of when something will kick in, but there is a problem when things are ill-thought-through, when they\u2019re not relevant, and when there is some confusion. I know that members on this side of the House do not want to have to come back to the House to address some shortcomings, in terms of misfortunes, because Part 2, which is about the administration, simply cannot be adhered to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ESo while members opposite may wish that, actually, we don\u2019t tease these out and the Minister doesn\u2019t respond\u2014which is their prerogative\u2014I do think that members of the public all around the country will be expecting to know if they are going to purchase an electric vehicle that would be eligible for the rebate scheme. And that is in the lead-up to the Christmas period. There needs to be some certainty for them. That\u2019s all that I\u2019m asking, yet I have still failed to receive a response from the Minister about the purchase agreement and the particular time around that. I know that it might be cumbersome for members, but that is, unfortunately, the position that members in the Opposition are in, because we are not getting an answer to the very questions that we are putting to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EA lot of this stuff could have been teased out if there was adequate information in front of the committee. There was a question about the nature of advice that officials had provided. There have been questions provided by my colleague the Hon Dr Megan Woods around the nature of some of the efficiency gains and how that relates also to emissions budgets. Yet we still fail to have a response from the Minister, and I invite him to provide that response to allay some of the concerns that, as of now, still continue to not be responded to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022c75a9f29c8a04b94b9f3410e7b17417d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c75a9f29c8a04b94b9f3410e7b17417d\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for the question. In regard to his tabled amendment, we don\u2019t support it. The policy intention of the legislation is for the rebate and ute tax scheme to end at midnight on 31 December 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022527c45aa08d6416a9707631419500a4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022527c45aa08d6416a9707631419500a4e\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I do have a question for the Minister about the vehicle emissions and energy economy label in Schedule\u00A03, now that we have the larger version of it, and thanks to the officials for getting that, or whoever it is that provided that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI was just wondering if there is the ability for this label to be updated in line with changing costs. So, for example, the energy economy, if you look under the energy economy side, next to the star label, it says its cost per year is an estimate based on a petrol price of $2.50 per litre, an electricity price of 15c per kilowatt hour and an average driving distance of 14,000 kilometres. I\u2019m just wondering if the Minister can tell us if there\u2019s provision for the information that\u2019s used to calculate the estimated cost to change, based on rising petrol prices, because petrol prices have been over $2.50 a litre, I think, for quite a while, and they stay above $2.50. Obviously, the higher the petrol price, the more cost savings from an energy efficient vehicle like an electric vehicle or a low-emissions vehicle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo, if anything, this label, if it\u2019s using $2.50 per litre as the estimate, is underestimating the cost savings of an energy-efficient vehicle. Or it\u2019s underestimating the cost of an energy inefficient or gas-guzzler vehicle, and I think that\u2019s really important. I just want to make sure, given that it\u2019s in the Schedule, is this word for word in the Schedule or is there a provision for the wording around this to change to reflect changing petrol prices, which I think would be quite important to give accurate information to consumers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, maybe this is just an example and it is possible to make those changes, but I guess I\u2019m just seeking guidance as to whether the actual specific wording in here and the numbers that are used to calculate the cost estimate are limited to what\u2019s in the Schedule or whether that is something that can change. And if it does change, how often is the cost of petrol updated in these energy labels? Could the Minister tell us that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2ab7350f71347dca885fbc4cd058508\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2ab7350f71347dca885fbc4cd058508\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair; I was being vigorous based on your previous advice. This will be a short contribution, and I note that these new MPs across from us are very full of themselves. It\u2019s interesting that they are not embarrassed that the Prime Minister said in question time that he was all for\u2014what was it?\u2014\u201Cproper process\u201D. And here we are in urgency in an all-stages debate, and yet the Government benches are so loud and not embarrassed, and I would hope that people like James Meager would be embarrassed by this process. [Interruption] Here we go\u2014I was planning on making a very short contribution but apparently I\u2019m to talk about the last six years and my contribution since I\u2019ve been here, which is interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI did very much enjoy being an Associate Minister for the Environment and, of course, doing our great legislation to do a whole lot better for mitigating climate emissions, Madam Chair, which, of course, you know about having served on the Environment Committee. That was important work that we have done, and I very much hope that it will not be undone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI will, of course, refer more about that in the third reading when we\u2019re talking about the whole bill, but here I was just going to remark on a remark of the Minister mere minutes ago when he was discussing an answer to Tangi Utikere\u2019s question about the timing of when the scheme ends. He said\u2014if I heard correctly\u2014that it will be at midnight on 31 December 2023. I\u2019m interested in why he\u2019s saying it\u2019s at midnight on 31 December 2023, because of course the Schedules refer to the close of 31 December 2023, and if the close is to mean midnight, I think it should say midnight. But if we can have the Minister on record, on the Hansard, saying that it should indeed be midnight and to clarify the point that it wasn\u2019t an offhand response, that would be a very useful thing for the member to do. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u002234f78a531e1a4294bd1e3d96437635cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234f78a531e1a4294bd1e3d96437635cc\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b2433ddc249f4602b7e80747fbfc8c3c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f186c471dde4488c9abe539365d14943\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f186c471dde4488c9abe539365d14943\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to insert new clause 22A be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a00f4c227cf44effbd1e32db050a22f3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228813764bc852451b849649fb7637b1aa\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002253b3492e2eb44d4ab9237f2e818826f8\u0022\u003ESchedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00228fe82e9f037d4295b5c129af5eafa5fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fe82e9f037d4295b5c129af5eafa5fc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Now we come to Schedule 1, where there is no debate. The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fdbddb5fbf614312a4c2f5bf31074975\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002215768998a85640ccabc2c0d0657bdbc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215768998a85640ccabc2c0d0657bdbc4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tangi Utikere\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 1 to insert new clause 28 in Part 7 of Schedule 1 of the Land Transport Act 1998 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a0005573eac44261a9249d69f4f581dd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022275670b200664191b3ef15b00577e8a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022275670b200664191b3ef15b00577e8a7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s tabled amendments to Schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cdefc8e7b39d4150adf4a25f2324ecc2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222ceda4c6e65d431ca8e92fce547ce0a6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002275de04c6fc024c86a0007578fe44ce38\u0022\u003ESchedule 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022419e9664937f48cc9959fb8461fe11b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022419e9664937f48cc9959fb8461fe11b1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Schedule 2, also with no debate. The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e522c706e9694b559e94cfd48fd87c7f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f87a4af6f6504a69ad1c2d37f9773c1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f87a4af6f6504a69ad1c2d37f9773c1c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tangi Utikere\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 to insert new clause 16 in Part 4 of Schedule 1AA of the Land Transport Management Act 2003 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d7f0c7e7f2a144aeaf0484e9df713719\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225e1a6140df0a4bb49064af1f4d473ddf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022774f78160cea4a6283b3eebe7f740690\u0022\u003ESchedule 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002210431b625f734a84a9f51bd9801ad0ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210431b625f734a84a9f51bd9801ad0ac\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Schedule 3\u2014also no debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e88c06e56028493ba511d5df4af01902\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224554c5e41d6f447aba4bd0418d6c3c82\u0022\u003ESchedule 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022da6217ba07314b65b0b97882bd7e939d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 4 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002257ba55a922bf40bfbe825a58aab6afdf\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002272c3e7f56537477b950991a2dd8a5237\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272c3e7f56537477b950991a2dd8a5237\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to our final debate, clauses 1 and 2, \u201CTitle\u201D and \u201CCommencement\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00225d35d665a8ec4695be437e5941aaf498\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d35d665a8ec4695be437e5941aaf498\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. This is the final part of the debate. There are two simple clauses that we are debating here: the title and the commencement. The title is: \u201CThis Act is the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Act 2023.\u201D I note there are a number of proposals on the Table\u2014the Government won\u2019t be supporting any of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe commencement is: \u201C[The] Act comes into force on 1 January 2024.\u201D This has been long signalled. This was what the Government campaigned on. This was what people have had clearly signalled, and we will not be extending that at all. I see there\u2019s a range of other amendments on the Table, but we campaigned on this policy; we are now delivering on this policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00220c0e8ad2ce2f4fc9abcaab197b425566\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c0e8ad2ce2f4fc9abcaab197b425566\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the Minister for those comments. It\u2019s interesting to hear this common rhetoric that, you know, \u201CWe\u2019re doing this as a Government because we campaigned on it.\u201D Yes, there is some sense to that, but it also, I think, needs to be considered alongside other campaign commitments which were not campaigned on but suddenly are making their way through at some stage to become laws\u2014and, you know, we think of things like smoke-free generations. So it\u2019s interesting that those sort of comments from the Minister I think need to be taken in the context for which the rules currently operate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMadam Chair, I know that this is a very discrete component of the bill, and I have two proposed amendments on the tabled amendment paper. The first one relates to the title, and I think one of the really interesting things\u2014and we\u2019ve covered this off as a House whilst we\u2019ve been sitting in urgency\u2014is around the title of a bill or a piece of legislation. It\u2019s really important because it signals, actually, what is in the provisions that are in the bill or the legislation. I think, when we look at what the current title is, the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill, doesn\u2019t\u2014well, it might reflect what it actually does, but I don\u2019t think, actually, it reflects what it means. So the tabled amendment in my name for clause 1 is to replace that with \u201CClean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal (Taking No Action on Climate Change) Amendment Bill\u201D. I think that really does sum it up, because what we have in front of us is a series of suggestions that the committee has gone through that really do reflect the position of the new Government, and that is one where the Government is not prepared to take any action on climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe reason why that\u2019s an appropriate title is because all of the things that are contained in all of the clauses within this bill lend themselves to stupid types of decisions\u2014decisions that are not going in any direction to support households and communities to look at their emissions profile and to make some real positive decisions in that space. So the suggested change to the title of the bill to the \u201CClean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal (Taking No Action on Climate Change) Amendment Bill\u201D is a very good name, and I do hope that members of the committee will support that. It is reflective of the current Government\u2019s position, and I look forward to support from members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe second is an amendment to clause 2, which would seek to replace the commencement date. Currently, the commencement date is quite specific. It\u2019s 1 January 2024. It differs from some other bills where it relates to the day after Royal assent or something like that. I do think that having a specific date, if we\u2019re to head down this path, is helpful. I think that the suggestion of replacing that 1 January 2024 with 1 January 2025 is very helpful, and I hope that members will be supportive of both of those clause changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002279692a51e7d046db8001b5c24021be0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279692a51e7d046db8001b5c24021be0b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, as agreed by the Business Committee, it\u2019s time for me to report progress back to the Speaker. So I just ask for some silence as we get the House prepared for some maiden speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220fa792ec962e427680ee50c051b6dbc0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fa792ec962e427680ee50c051b6dbc0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill and reports progress. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e72b95dd449c4dffa209949a673e7d03\u0022\u003EMaiden Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ce839e6411949dcb8e1924ea5c38e13\u0022\u003EMaiden Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u002216a734ec61e14ccda86fcdf44c86a38e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216a734ec61e14ccda86fcdf44c86a38e\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I begin by congratulating you on your appointment. It is evident it is well deserved and affectionately accepted. In the brief moments I have been here, I recognise that your judgment, fairness, and humour will serve us well in both maintaining order and ensuring that all voices are respected, while allowing for robust and engaging debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI stand before you in this House today, acutely aware of both the privilege of my position and the responsibility. I reflect on the words of Jonah Lomu. When he was acknowledged for his humility, he responded that it is far better to have a seat at the back of the room and be called to the front, than the other way around. It is in my nature and foundational to my upbringing to value humility, so to enter this place with the honour of the appointment afforded to me, with a seat literally at the front of the room, has been unsettling. But I\u2019m truly honoured to accept this position as one of service to those who have put their faith in me, and service to our nation and all its people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EOn this point, I wish to acknowledge those to whom I owe this position. Firstly, to New Zealand First, my colleagues who stand beside me, and all those who gave up so much over the last three years to return us to Parliament. We truly are the party of hard-working Kiwi battlers, who welcomed me into the fold with encouragement, generosity of spirit, and friendship. The list is too vast to name you all, but I commit to you that I will dedicate my time here to realising the vision that we share. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EBut I will be clear: the success of New Zealand First comes through the leadership and strength of a man for whom I have the greatest admiration. The Rt Hon Winston Peters is without equal as a leader and a statesman. His vision, knowledge, wisdom, wit, and dignity will be essential as we navigate making the changes needed for this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI also cannot miss out my neighbour, the Hon Shane Jones. I know how much I have to learn, and I look forward to benefiting from your wise counsel, your courage, and your determination to navigate the rhetoric to deliver for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003ETo the Rt Hon Christopher Luxon, the Hon David Seymour, and the colleagues with whom we have formed a Government, I congratulate you all and look forward to continuing as we have started, working in the best interests of our wonderful country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI acknowledge with respect all members in this House: those returning and those who stood in this House for the first time only recently. I fully appreciate now the commitment and dedication it takes to be in this place. It strikes me that there is so much more in common than many would believe. We are all here to serve, to give a voice to those we represent, and we are here to deliver on our promises. It is my hope that this common ground will serve us well as we navigate the work ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EFinally, I would like to acknowledge my family and friends who are here today. Thank you so much for standing with me. I won\u2019t embarrass you by naming names, but you\u2019re all part of my journey to this place. For some, you are my inspiration; for some, you are my safe haven; for some, you are my wisdom; and for some, you are my driving force. It is the simple lessons that you\u2019ve given me: breathe, just breathe; that sometimes, digging a hole and working in the dirt is good for your soul; putting your shoulders back and looking people in the eye makes you strong; and after a tough day, a bag of chips and a lemonade can put things right again\u2014and my dear friend Reihana, for saying, \u201CJust get out there, girl.\u201D Each of you bestow on me great gifts. You make me laugh, keep me grounded, and keep me focused. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EBut I do have to mention a couple of special people: Caity and Mitch. It has been my privilege to be your mum. I know how much you missed out on because I was always working. I remember how many times I have left you on the side of the road, waiting to be picked up, but you\u2019ve always forgiven me, you\u2019ve always stood by me, and you\u2019ve challenged me, fought with me, and made me a better person. It is my great joy that not only do I get to love you as my children but I really like you as people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI am aware I enter this House as somewhat of an anomaly. To be a first-time MP launched into this position is a very rare occurrence. My only experience with this place has been working in security, which is hardly a political credential. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EIt struck me as I took my seat in this House for the first time that this journey is no longer about me; it is about duty and responsibility. It is about service and accountability. It is about those who have gone before to pave the way and those who will follow after I leave. It is about the reverence and importance of this place, the tradition and respect it should be afforded. I will do my best to do justice to this great privilege. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI am a product of the strength and love of wh\u0101nau, those that are here with me today and those across the world that I know are watching me now. I am one of six children, with my mother\u2014who is here with me today\u2014being just 17 and my father 22 when they married and started their family. My father was the son of a country schoolteacher and was himself one of seven children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EHis mother, Renee Costello, descended from settlers who came here to this country in the 1860s. My grandmother was a tiny woman with unrivalled strength and intelligence. When I was a child, she was my quiet place to be. I could use up all my time talking of her achievements, of the seven children that she raised, and of my aunties and uncles and cousins, who have been an enormous part of my life. I know that from her I inherited my stubborn resolve to work hard, to work for those who depend on me, and to be the person who will sit quietly at the back of the room, observing and listening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EMy father, John Costello, was lost to me five years ago. Despite being one of six, I know my siblings will agree that there was a special bond between him and me. He was a storyteller. He loved three things in his life with, I believe, equal passion: his family, the written word, and horse racing. He started his life as a journalist cadet, but after a few short years, combined his love of horse racing with his job. He considered himself the luckiest man alive to be paid to do what he loved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EHe was the first journalist inducted into the Horse Racing Hall of Fame, he wrote Tapestry of Turf\u2014The History of New Zealand Horse Racing, and was a champion for the industry. He will always have the last laugh, as he managed to get away with naming half of his children to have the initials of racing clubs before Mum found out and put a stop to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThere were absolutely no airs and graces to him. He would drive into the members\u2019 car park at Ellerslie racecourse with his beaten-up old Toyota Corolla, with different-coloured panels, without even noticing the fancy vehicles around him. He could walk into any public bar in this country and have a beer and spin a few yarns, and would greet everyone with the same level of respect. That is the gift he gave me: to see people for who they are as individuals and know that everyone has their own story that is worth listening to. There is not a day that passes that I do not think of him, and I cannot express how much I wish he was here today if for no other reason than to write this speech. I can feel him sitting above me, wanting to take out his red pen to correct my grammar and spelling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EAs I said, my good fortune was family, and therefore I have to pay tribute to my mother and my t\u016Bpuna. My mother, Maryann Costello, not only gave me life but kept me alive. As a sickly kid, she rallied to do what she knew in her heart I needed. She made me strong; she literally taught me to breathe. It is her strength and warrior-like determination to provide for her family that has made me the person I am. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EMy grandparents, Hone Pane Tamati Waka Nene and Queen Esther-Louise Davis, were M\u0101m\u0101 and Dangy to us. It was Dangy who we would trudge behind as he taught us how to find and harvest kai, and how that kai was then shared around to take care of our people. It was M\u0101m\u0101 who would have a table of I don\u2019t know how many children, my cousins, in her tiny kitchen and, magically, food would appear. Her grace, her dignity, her warm heart, and her wisdom made you know what unconditional love really meant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EIt was my great-grandfather, Lou Davis, Popop, that hand-rolled a tennis court in the paddock and built a dirt floor shed for table tennis lit by Primus lamps. It was in that place that he trained champions who set records and represented New Zealand. A couple of them are here today. One news article I found aptly describes Popop. It says: \u201CAnd you will know that he is Lou Davis, earnest champion of sport for youth and for the wellbeing of the M\u0101ori race.\u201D This is another example of the legacy I have been given. Whether it is M\u0101m\u0101 and Dangy, M\u0101m\u0101dear and Popop, Poomama and Poopapa, Eru Nehua and Te Tawaka, I know by example what it means to do, not just talk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI talk of my t\u016Bpuna, and of my wh\u0101nau not to qualify for some credentials to be recognised as M\u0101ori. I know who I am and my strength comes from who has gone before and who are with me now. I tell this story because we are all a product of a journey that saw us come to this House. I am privileged to have lived my life with a connection to my hap\u016B, to have spent my childhood on the land that generations before me walked and lived in Whakapara and Bland Bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI descend from Tapua, whose children were Tari, Patuone, and Tamati Waka Nene, the latter both being chiefs who signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi and, in so doing, became part of building the nation we now enjoy. This is our story, and my truth is from our lived history. I am Ng\u0101puhi, Ng\u0101ti Hau, and Ng\u0101ti Wai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI am also a product of another family. I joined the police as a wide-eyed 20-year-old, and that was where I grew up. I did most of my service in South Auckland and worked my way through to becoming a detective-sergeant. Very early in my career, I was a delegate for the Police Association, advocating for better conditions and protections for my police family\u2014eventually being elected by my peers as vice-president, working in that role with one of your Assistant Speakers, Greg O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003ESince leaving the police, I have worked in security and construction. I have managed teams of up to 300 employees. I know what it takes to run a business and make it successful, and I know what it takes to get people to work together. I know the terror of wondering if I have done enough to make payroll this week, and the delight of seeing people you employed learn a trade and go on to successful careers. It has been in my nature, in my genes, and in my heart to strive to make a difference. I have lobbied against Government waste and lack of transparency, and to demand accountability. I have fought for New Zealanders to be treated equally before the law, rallying against a narrative of race-based division. I have defended the rights of exploited migrants, advocating for victims in vulnerable communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI see the task ahead is to show leadership in how we respect and accommodate difference while getting on with the job of finding practical solutions and not commentating on the problems. It is not to respond to those who have the loudest voice and who make the most noise; it is our job to restore balance and deliver outcomes. Like all police who leave the job, I have the stories; the faces that haunt you. I know the face of inhumanity, of cruelty, and suffering. I have seen fear, despair, and more death than I want to remember. But I have also witnessed bravery, selflessness, and compassion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI understand people and I know how, in unity, amazing things can be achieved. As I look ahead, I know we need so much more than faux indignation and misplaced guilt that makes us paralysed from making progress. I will not tiptoe around the difficult conversations. I will not allow noise and rhetoric to distract from delivering on what we have promised. I will not allow the most vulnerable to be used as a bargaining chip to gain political relevance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI will close with the words from my grandfather, Hone Pane Tamati Waka Nene Davis, who said over 35 years ago: I believe that racism among a people, and in a country such as ours, is an evil that must be completely eradicated from our midst, and replaced with a better love and understanding of our fellow men. Racism raises its ugly head in so many different areas that it causes friction between two worthy people\u2014M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101\u2014and may even go further and cause disruption between M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori. To add to this, it may even go further into a community and cause a rift in family relationships.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EWhere it causes the greatest havoc is when it enters into individuals who become distrustful, suspicious, and even antagonistic of their fellow men. This, in turn, following along a natural sequence, breeds violence. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the situation we are in today and the monster has entwined me in its evils. I will honour my grandfather\u2019s words. This is my legacy, and for this legacy, I will make my stand in this House and for this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u0022b13b37461fb549c8877169e7930d82c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b13b37461fb549c8877169e7930d82c3\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and congratulations on your role as Speaker. I would like to begin with some acknowledgments. Thank you to Bruce Partridge, who\u2019s in the gallery today, my Kaik\u014Dura campaign chair for the last three general elections. Bruce is a long-time New Zealand First supporter. The many hours we have spent campaigning at meetings, delivering pamphlets, and putting up hundreds of hoardings has today been rewarded. The reason for Bruce doing this work has been simple and it\u2019s one I will not forget\u2014as he says, it\u2019s not for him, but for his children and grandchildren. He believes the New Zealand First Party has the right principles and policies for our future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EI would also like to thank the rest of my campaign committee, Bess and Greg Colquhoun, Jack Reddan, and Bill Holvey. For the hours you have volunteered over the years, I am for ever grateful. To the many supporters in the Kaik\u014Dura electorate, thank you. Jessica Bagge; for the political journey we have been on since 2010 when we were both elected to the Marlborough District Council. The many highs and lows along the way, you have continued to support my endeavours and I will be forever grateful for the belief you have in me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe Rt Hon Winston Peters\u2014the legend of New Zealand politics. You have my full respect for your hard work, energy, and drive to stand for what is right, and put New Zealand and New Zealanders first. A moment he may not recall, but one that I do, is from my younger years, of my late mother grabbing him and giving him a hug on the campaign trail on one of his early visits to Blenheim when the party was first formed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand First Board and President Julian Paul; thank you for your time and commitment to seeing New Zealand First returned to Parliament and now Government. And to the members and supporters of New Zealand First who have put your faith in myself and the New Zealand First caucus to represent your voice in Parliament, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EMy wife, Sally, and our four children\u2014Jaxon, Paige, Dale, and Keira\u2014your understanding of the many interrupted moments that occur from being a politician, where even the simple tasks of going to the supermarket can mean a long, drawn-out discussion on the politics of the day. To my wife, Sally, who said she would never marry a \u201Csuit\u201D: well, you have! When we first married over 20 years ago, you will remember the early years of my rather bad dress habits of ripped Barker pants and jerseys, while working endless hours on the orchard to pay the bills. Even the consistent resistance to using a cellphone, and then my attachment to my old flip phone\u2014so much has changed. With our recent achievement of both being elected at the same time to the Marlborough District Council, which is something rarely, if ever, heard of, I am so proud of your achievements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge Sir Douglas Kidd, the 25th Speaker of the House of Representatives. He was an MP from 1978 to 2002. He represented the Marlborough and Kaik\u014Dura electorate from 1978 to 1999, and then was a list MP until his retirement in 2002. He was also one of the pioneers of the Marlborough aquaculture industry in the iconic Marlborough Sounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EI would also like to acknowledge former MP Colin King, who served as the Kaik\u014Dura electorate MP from 2005 to 2014, who has been very supportive of my time in local body politics and my ventures into central government. And MP Stuart Smith, the current Kaik\u014Dura MP, for your commitment to the electorate, and as you often say when we are debating, that \u201Cpolitics is a contest of ideas\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EMy wider family tree is difficult to explain at the best of times. What I would like to say is I have always been loved. My mum was, in her way, the greatest politician you would ever meet. She had a knack of knowing how to press someone\u2019s buttons and the skill to walk away and watch the all-mighty eruption happen, while someone else would be taking the blame. Through no fault of my own, I don\u2019t know exactly who my biological dad is, but I have two that say they are. One of those, who has now passed, would be super proud of this moment; the other is a local legend in his own right. The traits they both share is working the land and being practical, hard-working people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EIn my early years until my late teens, I was raised in Rapaura in Marlborough, now known as the golden mile of the world-proclaimed Marlborough wine industry. My family owned multiple orchards and was heavily involved in exporting apples and cherries. As a young boy, I would spend endless hours picking fruit, helping in the packing shed or acting as the shopkeeper in our fruit stall. I attended a small rural school, Rapaura School, and played various sports, with cricket, athletics, and rugby being my favourites.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EI then spent my college years at Marlborough Boys\u2019 College. In Year 12 at college, I remember studying business studies and doing the Young Enterprise Scheme. We were tasked to set up a business and invent a new product. The inventing of a new product was lost on me, but the thought of making money did very much appeal. Soon I had organised our small group into selling fruit at the local markets. My teacher of the day didn\u2019t seem to mind as we had sold shares in that business to get it up and running. When the final dividend was paid, with something like $100 return for every dollar invested, the teacher\u2019s $5 investment looked very good. Instead of finishing the business, I decided to carry it on in a personal capacity, and 22 years later, I finished my weekly ritual at the Redwood markets but continue my fruit growing today with a horticultural block I am developing in Renwick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EI remember being in my garage, bagging fruit at the tail end of the global financial crisis, when it was suggested to me to stand for local council. Though I knew very little about local politics, I did have a lot of local media exposure with my time at the markets. I decided to run, and as no one else was standing against the incumbent mayor, it was suggested that would be a good platform to get some free coverage of my campaign. After a bit of study about local issues, such as locals missing out on tendering contracts, and closed-door council meetings, I was set for my campaign. The result was that I was the highest polling Blenheim Ward councillor, something I have achieved now five times in a row.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EMy early local government career was difficult and controversial. Obviously, standing for mayor may have helped to gain a seat as a councillor, but it also exposed me to the full force of some unhappy longstanding councillors and bureaucracy. Soon came attacks on me to put me in my place. Instead of being quiet and sitting on my hands, and keeping my mouth closed for the first term, I spoke out. Doomsday was about five months into my first term when discussing council tendering, when my comment replying to a question on whether council staff were tampering with tender papers, I replied \u201CThat could be the case.\u201D The resulting report and conflict of this was something rarely experienced in Marlborough. Standing up for those who I saw had no voice or ability was my duty. The resulting report that cleared the council of wrongdoing did change the council, moving forward, for the better. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EIn 2017, I was a late inclusion to stand for New Zealand First in the Kaik\u014Dura electorate. The experience was fast paced and one I enjoyed. The ability then to tap into MPs in the 2017-2020 Government was appreciated. I thank Mark Patterson, especially, for your time and commitment. From my perspective, the New Zealand First caucus performed well and was the handbrake on bad ideas, and the accelerator for good ideas such as the Provincial Growth Fund. The Provincial Growth Fund in Marlborough helped to fund a number of incentives, including the now completed Blenheim Library. The Working for Nature programme was a great incentive for local jobs and the improving environmental outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EAfter the disappointment of the general election in 2020, I was eager to help New Zealand First back into Parliament. I joined the New Zealand First Board in 2022 and developed the ground game blueprint that was rolled out in the 2023 campaign. The announcement of the New Zealand First list, and being placed at number six, with the successful election result, means I stand before you today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EOver my 14 years in local government, the past three years on council have been the most stressful and uncertain times. The constant and major reforms like three waters and many more, have taken a major toll on the relationship between councils and central government. The central government approach of \u201Cbig brother knows best\u201D needs to be seriously questioned. The constant demands of the previous Government in the case of Marlborough saw many councillors at the last local body elections retire, and the loss of many key council officials and staff who delivered vital services to the community. This is a constant cry from councils across New Zealand. The new Government has a major challenge to repair this relationship, and we need to work together as it is both local and central government\u2019s roles to deliver positive outcomes for our constituents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EConsultation\u2014the most rewarding aspect of being an elected member is hearing from your community. I have sat through many annual plans and long-term plans. Such processes can always be refined, but the importance of democracy and being heard is undeniable. The previous Government often called for submissions but, in many people\u2019s views, did not take the time to hear or listen to what people had to say. Three waters reform was very much a case in point of \u201Cwe know better than everyone else\u201D. I look forward to my select committee work and hearing from New Zealanders. The thing for all of us to remember is to not take this process for granted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EResource Management Act (RMA) reforms\u2014I have been an RMA hearings commissioner since entering local body politics and have sat on hundreds of consents and really enjoyed the opportunity to hear and make decisions on some key Marlborough activities such as marine farming. The role of decision maker is very much dependent on the legislation and the case law to grant or decline an application. The RMA reforms proposed by the previous Government, I would need to question whether they streamlined that process or made it more difficult and complex than ever. The new legislation looks less user friendly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EWhat has happened to the concept of the average New Zealander being able to put together a resource consent without the help of costly consultants, and being able to submit this to your local council? The answer to that is that the consenting regime has become a gravy train for consultants and lawyers. It is often a money game and not about the environment. I think of growth industries such as aquaculture, which needs a much more permissive status. We need to back opportunities that will deliver growth potential, high-paying jobs, and increase our export earnings. I have witnessed the worst of the RMA when those wanting to expand or try something new were stonewalled by legislation and environmental scaremongering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EOffshore aquaculture should be an industry we encourage and grow. The major hurdles we have seen on recent applications are something I want to see legislation change on. When offshore farming is being halted by amenity values and outstanding natural landscapes, one needs to question who benefits from those outcomes. Many of those remote sites will never be seen by the majority of New Zealanders, so to stop development on amenity or landscape values, in my view, needs to be reconsidered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EIn M\u0101ori affairs, I see us all as one. I find it very difficult with the current tensions between some M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101. We all need to work together. In my lifetime, we all had the same opportunities, and it\u2019s what one does with those opportunities that should define us. I want us to move forward as one, but we seem to be a country with an identity crisis. How we resolve those tensions of the past is something many New Zealanders are struggling with. In my time in Parliament, I would like to think we will all come closer to being \u201CKiwis\u201D regardless of how long some of us have been here for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EWith our rural regions and primary production, it is important that we don\u2019t forget that our rural regions account for much of the country\u2019s GDP. If our rural regions are supported, our economy will grow. Investing in infrastructure\u2014whether that be road, rail, flood protection, or strategic assets\u2014is good investment in the health of our rural regions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EFinally, the horse racing industry: my favourite pastime is harness racing. I have a fond memory of going to the Marlborough races with my family when I was young. The atmosphere, mingling with the people on course, and the thrill of the odd win is something I enjoy. For a lot of New Zealanders, a day out at the races is a symbol of New Zealand\u2019s culture. I look forward to being back on course over the summer holidays to hear the race calls of Matt Cross and get in amongst the racing community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThank you, Mr Speaker, for this opportunity today. I look forward to my new role and standing up for the issues that are important to New Zealanders and New Zealand First.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u00226123c104f7b44cbaa7e7d89c6ff35d3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226123c104f7b44cbaa7e7d89c6ff35d3c\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and can I join all the other previous speakers in congratulating you on your new role. I also want to congratulate all the other members in this House for being elected to this House, especially those of you of the class of 2023, and just listening to some of the maiden speeches we\u2019ve already heard, gosh, you are going to make an immense contribution to this House and to this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI also want to congratulate the Rt Hon Winston Peters, the Hon Shane Jones, and the dedicated team at the heart of New Zealand First. You\u2019ve all given up so much and worked so hard to bring New Zealand First back to this House, and I want to congratulate all the New Zealand First team, supporters, and candidates right across the country. My personal thanks to the New Zealand First Wellington hub team, many of whom are in the audience tonight, for your hard work and wonderful support during the campaign. New Zealand First was written off by many, but, Winston, you have packed out halls up and down the land. You have achieved what some called a political miracle, and tonight you have brought New Zealand First back into this House. Even Lazarus could do it only once; New Zealand First has done it twice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EKa mihi ahau ki t\u0113nei Whare, te Whare k\u014Drero i ng\u0101 whakatau nui. [I acknowledge this House, the House that discusses the major decisions.] I salute this House where many great decisions have been made. I salute those who have gone before us and on whose shoulders we stand. We now shoulder the responsibility for setting the platform for those who will come after. I salute those whose courageous service of our country is recognised in the famous names on the walls around us. They fought and sacrificed so that we and other nations might live in freedom and peace. And I salute those of you, my colleagues, who have themselves served our country with courage and sacrifice. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWe all come here to make a difference. We come here because we care. We care very much about this beautiful country. We care about our home. I\u2019m proud to be a member of a Government that will work collaboratively, three teams in one, together on behalf of New Zealanders to make the changes that our country needs to be a Government of delivery. But, growing up, I had absolutely no interest whatsoever in politics. I don\u2019t even recall politics being talked about round our family table, and my children now, when we talk politics, they just say, \u201CSigh.\u201D and \u201CCan you stop, please?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EOur childhood was pretty comfortable. Mum and Dad were good, honest, hard-working, supportive, suburban parents who taught us the values of honesty, hard work, thrift, service, and to treat others as you would have them treat you. We were part of several lovely communities full of other lovely young families. However, Mum and Dad had a much tougher start to life. Mum, who\u2019s in the gallery today, and Dad, who\u2019s sadly no longer with us, both grew up in London\u2019s working-class East Ham during the Depression and the Second World War. As young children, both were evacuated. Dad at least got to be evacuated with his family; Mum\u2019s father, though, was an engineer and he had to stay to keep the power network on as the bombs fell, so Mum was evacuated with her two-year-old sister, and mother. Picture a little family at the railway station, not too sure where they were going or who would take them in. Money was always tight, and it became too expensive to keep the family going in two places, so they had to return to London to finish the war together in East Ham. Both Mum and Dad recorded separate stories about bombs landing on the houses next door.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EBut I share this part of my family story also to make the point that we human beings aspire to a better life. Most of us work diligently to achieve that. Dad worked for Shell, as his father had before him, and studied for a degree in the evenings. Career options were limited, especially for women. Mum was told by her father that university was unaffordable, and so she trained as a primary school teacher, but she did get that degree later in life. My parents married and moved to a new life in the county of Kent, south-east of London, where my brother, my sister, and I were born. It\u2019s a beautiful area, if you haven\u2019t visited it, full of history, castles, and stunning villages, and a whacking great motorway and railway to the continent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI\u2019d only just started school when we made another much longer move. Dad was wanted by Shell to help run the new Marsden Point Oil Refinery, and so we moved to New Zealand, first to Whang\u0101rei and then to Wellington. After four years, Shell wanted Dad back in London, but it wasn\u2019t long before the lure of a better life in New Zealand brought us back to Wellington\u2014happily, this time for good. Mum was a primary school teacher and Dad ran our coastal oil tankers and fuel storage system. His job was to ensure that every part of the country always had the necessary supplies of each type of product\u2014fossil fuels, of course. We enjoyed a good childhood, although it did mean eight different primary schools in eight years\u2014and no, I wasn\u2019t kicked out of any of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EIn the brief time I\u2019ve been in this House, I\u2019ve already heard a lot of reference to Rogernomics, none of it very positive. It was Rogernomics that got me to take notice of politics. It was that topsy-turvy political period when the left became the right and the right wasn\u2019t quite sure what to do about it. By the time Rogernomics hit New Zealand, I was teaching in Nelson, I\u2019d already graduated from Victoria University and Christchurch Teachers College. I\u2019d worked in hospitality\u2014I\u2019ve seen that\u2019s been raised in the last couple of days\u2014during holidays, evenings, and weekends; spent time in the naval reserve; and had a couple of years working in the heady world of investment finance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sure we all know the Lange-Douglas Government story: radical, rapid, crash-through political changes; one of the most protected, regulated State-dominated economies transformed almost overnight into the most open free-market economy anywhere. Changes were needed\u2014yeah, I see the ACT guys like it; the Labour guys don\u2019t, ha, ha! Funny that\u2014but the speed and brutality came at enormous cost to people. Inflation, interest rates, and the Kiwi dollar all soared. Mortgage rates touched an eye-watering 20 percent. The sharemarket soared and then crashed just two months after Labour was re-elected\u2014I wonder, if it\u2019d been the other way round, if they\u2019d have been re-elected. There were massive redundancies across the public sector. Rail was saved by sacking three-quarters of the staff. Then, after being re-elected, Labour went on a massive State asset sale programme, and I\u2019m not sure that they signalled that very clearly. Many manufacturers went to the wall. The experience taught me a number of things: to dislike government by ideology, to dislike hidden agendas, and that the checks and balances in our system are weak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EBut rather than grumble, I thought I\u2019d join the left-wing party, and joined the National Party. I was the youngest party member in the Nelson electorate by about 50 years, so what did they do? They promptly made me the electorate chairman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EAfter teaching, I had two brilliant years on a great Kiwi OE, working and travelling but keeping a close eye on what was going on back home. I was a camp director in the USA, worked on an Israeli moshav, in a Swiss hotel, in London offices, and on building sites.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI got back just in time for the 1990 election. Labour was swept out of office, FPP was shortly replaced by MMP, and I think that was the Kiwis saying that they wanted to reduce the unbridled power of single-party Governments and wanted minority voices to be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI got my first introduction to this House, a job in the new National Government\u2019s parliamentary research unit, and I\u2019d like to acknowledge my former boss Wayne Eagleson, who\u2019s in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve always had a very strong involvement in community. In 1992, I was invited to stand for election to the Wellington City Council and was privileged to be elected. I might also say I had the privilege of standing alongside an even younger James Shaw. He didn\u2019t make it. I\u2019m not sure who got the booby prize on that one. I stood on three values, values which remain core to me today: authentic listening, careful use of public money, and caring for the environment. It was a privilege to serve 10 consecutive terms on the council\u2014the last of them as mayor. It\u2019s effectively half of my lifetime. I\u2019m deeply grateful to the many thousands of Wellingtonians who voted for me over so many years and, in this election, to the good people of Mana. Though I\u2019m now a list MP, I know very well what it is to help thousands of constituents with all manner of issues. I know what it is, Jamie, for that supermarket shop or the walk through town to take twice as long because there are always people to talk to. I love that; I\u2019m not sure that my wife is so keen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI know what it is to work with my community to drive projects and programmes, to run events and festivals, to spearhead the development of many, many community facilities like parks, pools, and libraries. I know what it is to fight with my community against the odds on behalf of your community when the council was not listening to them. And I recognise some of my friends from the Miramar community in the gallery for their courage in fighting together against city hall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EBut together on the council we made a huge difference to the city. We built sewage treatment plants, built the railyards stadium, opened up the waterfront, supported the opening of Te Papa, built a new airport terminal and a beautiful convention centre. We supported the emergence of new creative industries, like film and digital tech. We liberalised the planning rules to energise the central city. And for several years, Wellington CBD was the fastest-growing population area in the whole of New Zealand. The once-grey, walk-short city became a centre of fashion, film, arts, culture, and events, and a significant tourism destination. We led the way in protecting, restoring, and strengthening heritage buildings. We grew public transport use after reversing its long-term decline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EBut if there is one thing I\u2019m personally particularly proud of as a councillor and as a mayor, it is in helping spearhead Wellington\u2019s stunning environmental transformation. I can remember as a parliamentary researcher reading the then new Ministry for the Environment\u2019s first state of the environment report. It was depressing. Unique biodiversity evolved over 70 million years in isolation was in steady and continuous decline. That began with M\u0101ori settlement, accelerated with European arrival, and, 150 years on, it was still getting worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EBut we could do something about it. Karori Sanctuary, now Zealandia, was Jim Lynch\u2019s crazy, never-been-done-before idea to not just reduce environmental decline but to turn it around to make the environment better. The mad idea was for an innovative new-design fence around a former water reservoir to eradicate introduced pests and restore native species that were then largely confined to offshore islands. I was part of the original steering committee, a foundation trustee, and a long-time volunteer. The early journey was often tough. There were many doubters, people who said we couldn\u2019t do it, and many roadblocks. But over time, it has truly taken flight. It is now, without doubt, a success\u2014much loved, internationally recognised\u2014a success for the environment, for education, for science, tourism, culture, and an amazing community builder. Zealandia has a staggering 16,000 members paid up and 600 active volunteers. And I\u2019d like to recognise some of the team, particularly Phil Meyer in the gallery, who\u2019s chaired the trust for the last six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EAs a councillor, I also drove the charge to piece by piece acquire, protect, and revegetate ridgelines right around the city fringe. Over 30 years, that has created one of the world\u2019s very best greenbelts. The city\u2019s wild reserve network is not quite complete, but it\u2019s getting very close. And I also recognise the Hon Grant Robertson there for his work supporting the town belt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EAnd Wellingtonians in their thousands have come together to contribute to this world-leading restoration journey, trapping, planting, weeding. Wellington\u2019s Miramar Peninsula has recently become the first urban area on the planet to eradicate introduced predators, including rats. The collective result of this kaitiakitanga is a very rare phenomenon, a city where wildlife is dramatically improving, and other cities are now copying our mahi, and that is awesome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EIn some ways, that brings me full circle. Another one-party Labour Government inspired me to return to this House, and I thank New Zealand First for giving me that opportunity. There will be plenty of opportunities to debate our current condition but, suffice to say, across so many aspects of our society, demonstrably, measurably, we were going backwards, and that is why New Zealanders voted for change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI expressed my dislike earlier of hidden agendas\u2014saying one thing and doing another\u2014but I think that this Government has been elected with a very clear mandate, and the coalition agreements articulate that very closely, and the 100-day plan is putting the first stage of that into delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000954\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI want to finish off with two big areas where I think we need to make a difference. The first of those is in lifting our economic performance. New Zealanders, for the most part, work really hard, but that is not enough. We\u2019ve fallen so far behind other countries. In the 1950s, some assessments had New Zealanders enjoying the world\u2019s third-highest per capita incomes, equivalent to Switzerland. Today, our incomes are 66 percent lower than the Swiss, and we rank only in the mid-30s. We are 20 percent below Australia, and it matters. Imagine if everyone earned 66 percent more. We probably wouldn\u2019t be having half the arguments we do. It matters to what public services we can afford. It matters to how much we are paid. It matters to keeping the skilled people we cannot afford to lose to higher wages and higher living standards to other countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000955\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EBut to create higher incomes, we must be more productive and grow the output per hour worked. We cannot borrow our way to wealth. We cannot redistribute our way to prosperity. This is not a zero-sum game. This Government is very focused on raising productivity. We need to be smarter; invest more in technology, research, and development; and support emerging creative businesses better. We need to grow savings and investment and reduce the handbrake of collective indebtedness. We need to reduce the burden of excessive regulation and heavy taxation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000956\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI hear too often the stories of businesses and individuals frustrated, delayed, and financially impacted by slow, often uncaring responses from central or local government. That needs to change because time is money. We need to spend every tax dollar well. We need to plan better for the critical long-term issues, like infrastructure, immigration, urban planning, and superannuation. We must reverse falling school achievement standards and fix the tertiary sector. Our health sector is struggling and, I think, too often siloed. We\u2019ve turned our back on prospective employees over the last three years. We\u2019ve got a lot of work to do there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000957\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe other big challenge we have is bringing our people back together. The concept of a team of 5 million together facing the common foe of COVID was powerful, emotional, and uniting. But less than three years later, poll after poll shows we are more divided than ever: COVID mandates, co-governance, rural against urban, gender issues, and generation against generation over housing. Social cohesion is essential. I spoke earlier of the need for authentic listening and for greater protections being built into our Government system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000958\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe most special part of being mayor of our great capital city was working right across the diversity of our community, building a new relationship with our mana whenua iwi, working with our Interfaith Council, some of whom are in the gallery today, and they were internationally honoured for their efforts in showcasing different faiths to build friendship and understanding, following the awful events of 15 March 2019. During the parliamentary protest, I engaged with protesters, police, politicians, and press, and it was very special also to work with the LBGTQI\u002B community, including honouring community pioneers and supporting community at a vulnerable time. I loved working across our diverse ethnic communities, working with our disability community and with our diplomatic community, some of whom are in the audience tonight. Citizenship ceremonies were a highlight. My message to our new citizens was always that they should continue to treasure their original cultures while embracing their new one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EOur task is to bring people together, and I can say it no better than this: \u201CM\u0101 te rongo, ka m\u014Dhio. M\u0101 te m\u014Dhio, ka m\u0101rama. M\u0101 te m\u0101rama, ka m\u0101tau. M\u0101 te m\u0101tau, ka ora.\u201D Through listening comes awareness. Through awareness comes understanding. Through understanding comes knowledge. Through knowledge comes life and wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000960\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThere will be bumps along the way, but through k\u014Drero and whakarongo, I believe we can be the best multicultural nation in the world. And there is an apposite African proverb about the journey: if you want to go fast, go alone; if you want to go far, go together. As a nation, if we walk together on the things that matter, we will go far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000961\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EAnd I want to finish off with my most important thanks. That is to my children, Brendon and Ella, and to my darling wife, Ann. Members here will know, or will come to know, that our families give up so much when a partner or parent is in political life. I\u2019ve been a councillor, a mayor, and now an MP for Brendon and Ella\u2019s entire life and all of our married life. The hours are often long. Work is often taken home; so, sometimes, is the stress. You\u2019re often away from your families. You\u2019re almost never off duty. Social conversation so often turns to politics. The media can be harsh, judgmental, and often unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000962\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWe politicians can grow a thick skin, but we\u2019re not invulnerable. But our families often feel it the more. Ann, Brendon, and Ella, thank you so much for your support and for your love. I love you very much. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb00086d785c4551b578b77245947cb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000963\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb00086d785c4551b578b77245947cb8\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Dobar dan, po\u0161tovane dame i po\u0161tovana gospodo! Good afternoon. I begin my maiden speech today by congratulating you on your election to the Chair. I welcome my husband Grant, who is with my two brothers\u2014Zeljan and Antoni\u2014they are both present here today. I have a third brother, Nick, who was unable to be here today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000964\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EThere are so many people to thank. To my supporters and volunteers, all who worked so selflessly\u2014at times during all hours of the night. To my fellow candidates and colleagues, for whom I have the deepest respect, thank you all for your support. To all the loyal members of New Zealand First\u2014so many working behind the scenes. Some of you have worked tirelessly for decades for the party. Your dedication and commitment have contributed to why we stand here today to represent New Zealand First and the people of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000965\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EIt is also of importance that I respectfully honour my late mother and father, Smiljan and Pavica Unkovich. It was in 1958 that my young parents\u2014then only 26 and 27\u2014with their first-born, Zeljan, made the bold move to leave their homeland of Croatia and sail to the other side of the world in the hope of a better life. Despite their uncertainty, they left behind their family and everything they knew to settle in Dargaville, Northland, as dairy farmers, soon affectionately being known as Ta Re Ra\u2019s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000966\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EUnable to speak the language, their early years as immigrants were hard. My eldest brother recalls many a night hearing my parents both weep, unsettled in their new life, and grieving the family they left behind. Having grown up during the Second World War and despite being relatively young, my parents were incredibly resilient. They knew how to work hard, and they ensured their children learnt that same lesson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000967\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EIt was the fire that burned our house to the ground\u2014losing nearly everything\u2014that was the catalyst for my parents to make the decision to leave Northland and move to Auckland, just prior to my eighth birthday, and where I have for the past 50 years called home. It is said that people with hope can endure incredible burdens, and this hope for a better life for their children was what my parents held on to during those difficult first years. They never gave up. Thank you, Mama i Tata, for the sacrifices you made for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000968\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EIt is said that the quality of your life is due to the quality of your decisions. My life has been a series of pivotal decisions, each has contributed to this little girl from the farm now having the privilege of standing here today. My first significant decision was at the early age of 14, when, at the end of my fourth form year, I came home with a substandard school report and received a loud, animated telling off from my mother. Not having a higher education, my parents wanted more for their children. They both worked physically very hard; firstly, on the farm, then Tata as a commercial fisherman and the remainder of his working life as a drainlayer. Mama spent countless hours sitting at a commercial sewing machine or standing at a kitchen bench. Her sadness on this day was not because of my poor grades, but because she knew I could do better, and here I was, possibly wasting the opportunity of the education that was available to me in this great country. Clouded with a lack of belief in myself and my academic abilities, I allowed this internal narrative to limit my efforts, and it showed in my results. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000969\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EIt was my mother\u2019s powerful words on this day and her belief in me that was the leverage I needed to make the decision to work hard and at least try. I knew that the cost of not making this choice would be far greater. Which is why I\u2019m committed, during my time in Parliament, alongside my fellow colleagues, to take heed and do what we can to reverse the declining outcomes we are seeing in our education system; to be a voice for our children and youth, who are our future; to show them, and their parents if necessary, that it is possible to choose a different path; and to break one\u2019s self-defeating patterns, to see one\u2019s worth, and, in time, to experience what is possible for their future. One pivotal decision could completely change the trajectory of their lives, as it did for me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000970\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EThe following year, I showed up for school. I surrounded myself with a new set of friends, I worked hard, and I went on to excel during the remainder of my high school years. Which is why I again share this message to our youth\u2014that, yes, you can, and what can happen for others can also happen for you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000971\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EBy the age of 20, I completed my Bachelor of Commerce degree at Auckland University, became an auditor, which was then followed by four years in the corporate world. Soon after, I gained my membership to the New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants. At 28, I chose self-employment, setting up my private consultancy practice. My timing was perfect, as it coincided with the launch of Mind Your Own Business in NZ, the new accounting software package. My practice grew very quickly as I helped sell, install, and train hundreds of business owners on how to transfer their paper accounting ledgers to a fully computerised system. My coaching career also commenced at this time, as many of my clients also wanted help with matters of the heart. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000972\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EMy own love of personal development commenced during times of self-doubt as a teenager. It was, however, when deep grief first knocked on my door in my mid-thirties that led me to obtain my Diploma in Counselling and, subsequently, life and business coaching certifications, becoming a member of the International Coaching Federation. Little did I know that my brief dance with grief during this decade was but a taste of what was to follow when, at 40, my then husband Philip Morrow was diagnosed with terminal cancer and passed away five months later. It was on the day of Phil\u2019s funeral that I declared that no matter the extent of suffering that was ahead, I would search for meaning from this event and find purpose again and remain committed to being of service to others.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000973\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EThis significant life event, and the many that have followed during the past two decades, are one of the reasons I stand here today as a new parliamentarian and am so driven to advocate for mental health. Regardless of age, profession, or status, a decline in mental health can visit or revisit any of us without notice at any time. Financial stress, eating disorders, addictions, crippling loneliness, and unresolved grief are but a handful of what so many are silently struggling with in today\u2019s world. Many want help. However, it is either unavailable or unaffordable\u2014some feeling too ashamed to even admit to family that they are suffering and they try to keep up with the \u201Cshe\u2019ll be right\u201D attitude, until one day all is not all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000974\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EI was so fortunate to have support during my darkest hours. Many do not have this luxury, and I am speaking openly here today to those who are resonating with my message. Tell someone, anyone. It was again my mother who gave me the greatest advice I have ever received, and what I have shared with my clients ever since, and I will share it with you today. During one of the lowest points in my life, she said to me in her soft Croatian voice, \u201CTanya, you have got to make yourself happy.\u201D Actually, it wasn\u2019t so soft. She went \u201CTanya, you\u2019ve got to make yourself happy!\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000975\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EA part of me wanted to laugh out loud, as here I was, having read all the books and being educated in the field, and here was my mother, with a very simple education and not able to command the English language, who gave me the sagest advice: that happiness was an inside job and this choice was up to me. And right now, she\u2019d be saying to me, \u201CTanya, don\u2019t you cry.\u201D, so I\u2019m not going to cry. It was at that moment I once again made the decision to get back up again, to take personal responsibility for my life, and, no matter what, to choose joy over suffering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000976\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EMy professional career since that time has been a fulfilling mix of finance, writing, speaking, and executive coaching. I have published four books on mental health, resilience, and how to overcome adversity, and one day I plan to write more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000977\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EMy journey into politics was once again a decision. Just as I knew two decades earlier that there was a place for me to contribute to mankind, I knew on a deep level that this was my next chapter to a life of service. One of the other areas I\u2019m so incredibly passionate about\u2014and one of the many reasons that drew me to\u2014New Zealand First, is my respect and love for the seniors in our community. It is no secret that my parents were everything to me, and walking beside them during the past decade of their lives dramatically increased my awareness of what it must be like for them and other seniors as they enter this stage of their lives. It served as a reminder that one day this, too, will be me\u2014all of us. Our elders, our seniors have worked incredibly hard. They deserve care, respect, and, most importantly, they deserve human connection. I will work tirelessly to ensure our seniors are not forgotten.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000978\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ESomeone once wisely said to me as a teenager that the most important thing one can do in our lives is to always honour our parents, to be at peace and to be united with them. He then added that this would enable us to be more united and at peace with others, especially ourselves. This message of unity is one I have continuously written and spoken about, and one I wish to speak of, as I close my statement today, as it is my main answer when asked \u201CWhy politics, Tanya?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000979\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EA house divided cannot stand, whether it be within a marriage, a family, a community, or a country. Unfortunately, it is often a lesson not learnt, until we face our own mortality\u2014or that of a loved one\u2014and we see that much of what divided us in the first place was not worth the precious time wasted. Yes, our country now faces so many hurdles to overcome, costing our nation and our communities more than we could imagine. However, the cost of not bringing the people together might just be our real crisis. We, the people of New Zealand, now have a choice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000980\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EI am of the belief we are not made for comfort, but for greatness, and one of the highlights of my professional career was to have mentors whom I would class as extraordinary humans. Having the privilege of being part of the Tony Robbins international coaching team meant I was always surrounded by fellow coaches and clients who always strived to live at their highest standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000981\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EWhich leads me to why I would now like to pay proper tribute to the Rt Hon Winston Peters and the Hon Shane Jones. I am sure I speak for my fellow colleagues here today, to say how honoured I feel to now have you both as mentors. Thank you for your courage, thank you for leading by example, thank you for always having our back as a team, and thank you for your commitment to our country. On a lighter note, the humour and one-liners you bring are second to none and are a great reminder to us all of the saying that a day without laughter is a day wasted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000982\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow as a final word, I would again like to mention my husband, Grant Anderson. We met later in life, when many of us show up with that little bit of extra baggage; mine was called grief. Thank you for your patience as I slowly unpacked mine. You have been my greatest cheerleader on every venture, especially on this most recent path to politics. However, Grant, most importantly, you were a wonderful son-in-law and you honoured my mother and father as if they were your own, especially during those most difficult recent years. I feel unspeakably grateful that you now stand beside me and all of my colleagues here today on this most important journey, as we now have the privilege to serve the people of New Zealand. Hvala Vam and thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022236a01212bb4494d97fe0cba2c4beafc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000983\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022236a01212bb4494d97fe0cba2c4beafc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I don\u2019t want to interrupt the congratulations to Tanya\u2014carry on, Tanya\u2014but I just think, for a bit of smooth operation, I now declare the House in committee for further consideration of the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000984\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220718678881a440c1b0a19a02ce0a658e\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000985\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228f6ce6b93c0b4fad884ec114d9430001\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000986\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000987\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022faf21d2e2f2248ff8d94a025858da65b\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2 (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e79f2f33d5b740b898a8907c735d1fe9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000988\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e79f2f33d5b740b898a8907c735d1fe9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, when the committee suspended on the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill, we were debating clauses 1 and 2. This is the debate on clauses 1 and 2, the title and commencement clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000989\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 1 is out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002248b4df1c3eac42ae99dfe026a60092e7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022248964ec2fd04747b8c52d0afe458ba8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022248964ec2fd04747b8c52d0afe458ba8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a5f18a7f1a9e46a6a5c59caf353b0bc2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000991\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220eefc975194b44988c0e0f94f6e1cd43\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tangi Utikere\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222d2c5b6fee3742cf982cb3d9b60919ab\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022405c2aa6500a40619f3754fcbd079445\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000992\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000993\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b35cf18508b6435888f65d729f2a1294\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000995\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000996\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223c5f9dbdb8eb4e15b8008528fda39a9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000997\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c5f9dbdb8eb4e15b8008528fda39a9f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for third reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000998\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022741d0c243a634807b69ddf8aef4edda1\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae137763454a48f5a6eb3941f5dd0e6a\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022df62c3e4da6b4af79d1fc53edc88b7b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884000999\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df62c3e4da6b4af79d1fc53edc88b7b0\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for the House to rise when debate on the third reading is concluded, rather than at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002270d1cfa75af946dabe285c013ab34513\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270d1cfa75af946dabe285c013ab34513\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been requested. Is there acceptance for that leave? Are there any objections? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d8d374584b524235adb8ecfc0fd941e4\u0022\u003ELand Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002278a1cf3fc5bb4a8e92ab9e3919343c8b\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5573aff96fa4d209b8f6baf90f836a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5573aff96fa4d209b8f6baf90f836a1\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis bill, which repeals Labour\u2019s regressive ute tax\u2014inequitable ute tax\u2014scheme, is now before Parliament, ready to be passed into law, to end the ute tax on 31 December 2023. A happy New Year to our farmers and tradies, who have been punished by the former Government. This Government was elected with all three parties\u2014National, ACT, and New Zealand First\u2014committing to the repeal of the ute tax as part of our coalition agreement, and this bill gives effect to that as part of our 100-day plan. I want to acknowledge the ACT Party for their coalition agreement on this, and the support of New Zealand First as well on this particular piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said in my other reading speeches on this particular piece of legislation, the policy which was put in place by the prior Government was fiscally irresponsible\u2014a $300 million deficit left behind by the previous Government. It was inequitable, by taking money from people who have very little or no choice as to what type of vehicle they can use and giving money to people who can already afford to buy electric vehicles. That policy is something that this side of the House does not support. It also would constantly require changes that impact the car industry and car market significantly, creating uncertainty in the market, which is unnecessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe National Party, the ACT Party, and the New Zealand First Party are proud to stand here repealing that piece of legislation. We know that there will continue to be an increased uptake of electric vehicles as more and more car manufacturers produce more and more electric vehicles and bring them into New Zealand, and we will continue to invest in the electric vehicle charging infrastructure to support this uptake over time. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002299cff32f04ec4efd8226e42745a79ca0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299cff32f04ec4efd8226e42745a79ca0\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It really is a sad day for this Parliament, which started on 12 December as the clocks in the Chamber do indicate, because this will, if successfully passed this evening, be the third piece of legislation that this new Government have brought to the House under urgency and it will make a huge difference in a negative way to families and communities all around Aotearoa, New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EYou know, it\u2019s often reflected upon\u2014the use of urgency, which is a rare occurrence in the House\u2019s experience. To set aside the time of the House to effectively sit through to midnight last night, to sit from this morning and right through to whenever we finish, is generally used for those issues that are the most pressing. Climate change is indeed an extremely pressing issue, but what the Government is doing with this piece of legislation is they are heading in the wrong direction when it comes to addressing climate change\u2014providing an opportunity to meet the needs that our communities need to take up the responsibilities to do their bit when it comes to addressing that pressing issue of climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that is going to be devastating in terms of people\u2019s opportunity and ability to make a difference. Small steps do actually matter. Small steps do actually count. What this is doing is it is removing, for households, the opportunity to make an easy choice around converting to a low-emission vehicle selection or choice. It\u2019s really, really interesting that in the committee stage of this bill, members on this side of the House tried to put up\u2014well, we did put up\u2014amendments that were not accepted by the Government, amendments that would make it easier for our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI think of one particular amendment which was around an opportunity to provide those people who had taken the rebate since it had been introduced with an opportunity to return or refund to the taxpayer the money that they were very happy to pocket. Now, I\u2019m sure that there are many in this particular community of ours that have taken the rebate and who may choose to speak out about it, but they do not want to support a proposal or a process that would easily allow people to if they choose to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe Minister in the chair at the time, Minister Andrew Bayly, said, \u201CWell, members are always able to do that, to return their moneys to the Crown.\u201D Well, that is not exactly the case. And perhaps, actually, members opposite and others who are in that situation who don\u2019t think that this rebate is actually required or necessary, may choose to do that if they wish to. But the legislative provision was voted down by this Government, so it\u2019s not able to be included in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWe heard a lot from the Minister of Transport recently around how this is a scheme that is fiscally unsustainable. Yet we know that with the changes that the Labour Government had put in place in July of this year, already the take of the rebate is $33 million higher than the actual cost. So what this Government is doing is in a point in time they are removing a particular amount of money that has been of benefit to the Government and the Crown when they are so concerned about things being fiscally more responsible and indeed unsustainable. It does not make any sense, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is taking New Zealand backwards and it joins the other two pieces of legislation that this Government have rushed through this House over the last few days under urgency. There has not been a select committee opportunity for members to feed into this. There has not been an opportunity for organisations from within the sector and outside of the sector to make their views known on what they think about this bill. Of course, we have members opposite who believe they know better\u2014they know better than communities around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5a90a01cba44dcfbe40f07e8dffa177\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s called an election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adc6b4a6f2a945c2ac7e42ab657df7b8\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: They know better\u2014and look, we hear about this all the time, and I think this is the third time that they\u2019ve said, \u201CIt\u2019s called an election\u201D. Well, I look forward to their arguments about them progressing their smoke-free legislative change that they didn\u2019t go to the community or to the electorate about, saying that they were going to change that\u2014shame on them; shame on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThere have been a number of people who have made contact with members on this side of the House to really express their concern around the pace within which this Government is actually making this change, and one such is Drive Electric\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226da703feba3844a99ed60d16431815b5\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Your union mates, that\u2019s who.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f040c00d72304bc98bcd6a1a1da45775\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Doocey, don\u2019t be afraid of the unions, they do some good work. Drive Electric is one example. But they have cited\u2014and I used this earlier today\u2014that the research that they\u2019ve provided to all members of the House shows that the new Government\u2019s policy that they are seeking to progress under urgency this evening, to remove the discount and also to weaken the Clean Car Standard, would mean between 100,000 and 350,000 fewer electric vehicles (EVs) on the roads in New Zealand by 2030. How is that going to help our country achieve our goals of doing what we need to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a3915187d2d494ba2324e4d5ae6cc46\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fecccd9928a849f1a4150e42ed1b31fb\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: It is not going to achieve that\u2014it is not going to achieve that. That is exactly why one proposal that was put forward in the committee of the whole House was to change the name of the bill, because it is about no action on climate\u2014no action on climate change at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also of interest that the Minister was not interested in providing this House or, indeed, anyone, for that matter, with a copy of the regulatory impact statement. Now there is a regulatory impact statement that has been prepared. The Minister has been quite clear about that. It is extremely unfortunate that the House has not had the benefit of being able to consider that alongside this particular bill. It\u2019s also rather difficult for the community and folk all around the country to be able to participate in this process when they\u2019re not around that. Yet we hear constantly that they\u2019re all about process. Well, if this is an indication of the sort of process that they\u2019re wanting to embark upon, it\u2019s going to be a very, very difficult time for many, indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis scheme that this Government seems so intent on removing is a scheme that is making a difference. It is a scheme that is working. It is a scheme that relates to and has been utilised by people from all walks of life. I\u2019m sure we can all reflect on some members in our own constituencies who have, perhaps, had a conversation about the difference that it makes to their household, the difference that it makes to their daily lives. It is, as my colleague the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor said, a good investment in reducing emissions. This is something for which we haven\u2019t actually heard any alternative from the Government. They\u2019re, on the one hand, quite happy to remove this incentive that is making a huge difference for households but, on the other hand, they are not coming up with what the alternative is going to be, how they are going to ensure that there are opportunities for households, for businesses, for community members to do what they need to do in order to address the real and confronting issues of climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThis is an interesting point because they have also talked about EV infrastructure, yet we haven\u2019t heard from the Minister\u2014although the Minister has had ample opportunity today to tell us about that, to address that issue. There have been no comments on the roll-out of EV infrastructure. Isn\u2019t that interesting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c4e01279ef048c48e7a12887fd40046\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Very.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022216ab2a1be954b62bfa81ae57fba7d3e\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s very interesting, because, I understand, that was something that the National Party decided they would campaign on as well. But now there\u2019s an indication that there needs to be a cost-benefit analysis before they start actually rolling all of this out all around the country, in terms of EV infrastructure as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EOne of the things that this Government also is not comfortable on progressing is an opportunity for those who want to purchase an EV, if this bill is going to pass the hurdle tonight, to actually still have the opportunity for any purchase agreements that might be in place before midnight on 31 December this year to be honoured. Right? We were challenged by the Minister, who said, \u201CWell, actually, people can just turn up to a lot and get a car and then it\u2019s all tickety-boo.\u201D Well, the reality is that a lot of people who actually utilise this as an incentive do not have the means to simply rock on up to a parking lot and buy an EV; they are individuals who want to do what they should be doing, to take their responsibility well and seriously. But this is a Government that is not empowering those very people to actually take up that responsibility that they want to deliver on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt is a sad day in the Parliament when it progresses legislation that is regressive. It is a sad day in the Parliament where many of the things that have been worked hard on for communities over the years have been undone. It\u2019s a sad day when that happens. I do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022497fb430463b4c22bb3e50cb601857ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022497fb430463b4c22bb3e50cb601857ec\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00223f0beddb5e8643d1b932adccbf951239\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f0beddb5e8643d1b932adccbf951239\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou te Whare. There are many events happening right now in the world that are directly relevant to this legislation and the repeal of this legislation. The Conference of Parties at the UN has made an agreement and made it very clear that we have to transition away from fossil fuels as quickly as possible. The wording in that agreement is not as strong as it should be because there\u2019s still too many vested interests\u2014in some cases, controlling States like the State hosting it\u2014who want to carry on burning fossil fuels as long as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut our children are relying on us to be responsible. Our children are relying on us to take the steps that we can take now because they will not be able to take them in the future; it will be too late. If we don\u2019t radically reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, it will not be possible to adapt to a future in a world where we have increasing storms and droughts and floods. It will affect food prices, it will affect food production, it will affect security of people right around the world. It\u2019s already affecting geopolitical stability in many parts of the world. I don\u2019t know if the members in the new National - ACT - New Zealand First Government realise just how serious and urgent the situation is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIn truth, the Clean Car Discount should have been brought in 20 years ago. If it had been brought in 20 years ago, we would be far more advanced in terms of having a zero-emissions fleet that would allow people to move around our country without having to rely on fossil fuels. And we would directly be benefiting from that, because we\u2019d be spending less money on imported oil, petrol, and diesel to power our vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe truth is that this legislation is repealing an incredibly practical, positive step that was leading to real change in New Zealand, a positive change in terms of reducing emissions of the vehicles coming into the fleet and, with it, less pollution, lower petrol bills. If the Government\u2014the National - ACT - New Zealand First Government\u2014cared one bit for equity, they wouldn\u2019t be proposing substantial tax cuts for the people who have the most money. They wouldn\u2019t be proposing tax breaks for landlords. They wouldn\u2019t be proposing or actually undertaking the repeal of fair pay agreements. They don\u2019t care about equity. That is a distraction; it\u2019s a red herring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe reality is this policy works to reduce emissions, and that\u2019s why you have it in place. If you care about equity, we can address that through our tax system and through the public support that we give to people, through the way that we invest in our people, with our social welfare system, our public health system, our education system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe policy was addressing a lack that we had of both fuel economy standards and a price incentive at the point of purchase. As I\u2019ve already made clear, and as members will soon see, if you don\u2019t have the price incentive at the point of purchase, you will get less uptake of the low-emissions vehicles, and then, if you\u2019re relying on the emissions trading scheme, you will see higher fuel prices and people will have no choice to avoid those higher fuel prices because they\u2019ve already purchased a vehicle that isn\u2019t as fuel-efficient as it could be. So the evidence is that the policy was working really well, and I\u2019m proud of the fact that we brought in such a constructive, positive policy that did make a real difference to a huge number of New Zealanders, and I\u2019m sorry to see that progress not happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe new National - ACT - New Zealand First Government was elected on a hodgepodge of culture war slogans that were seeking to divide New Zealand rather than constructive positive, practical, evidence-based policies that will help us address the challenges that we actually have. For those who identify as blue-green, I say to you that there was not a better policy in terms of its marginal abatement cost. That is, we gained money; New Zealand gained economic benefit from this policy, for the carbon emissions reduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, the National Party and the ACT Party and the New Zealand First Party do not want agriculture to do anything to reduce emissions and yet, at the same time, they\u2019re not doing anything for transport to reduce emissions. You would think for parties that believe that their entire strategy is electrification of cars, rather than actually making public transport work in our towns and cities and making active transport possible and making it possible for people to undertake the many, many short trips in our urban areas on foot, by bike, by e-scooter, by whatever means they choose that doesn\u2019t happen to be in a car\u2014they are car zealots. They\u2019re obsessed with forcing New Zealanders to use cars for every single trip, and we see that through everything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b3c4f5d9d7043e1967073a3a9ca0587\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208971dea16e344fc9402c678d6c1174e\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s not choice. It\u2019s the opposite of choice, I say to the member. It is the opposite of choice. If people don\u2019t have the ability to walk, cycle, or take public transport, they don\u2019t have a choice. National wants to take away people\u2019s choice and force them into cars, which they have to spend thousands of dollars a year to run and maintain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut, see, this is the difficulty in dealing\u2014they\u2019re so far down the rabbit hole, so out of touch with reality, that this new dinosaur Government doesn\u2019t understand that decades of Government policy have led to a situation where New Zealanders have no choice but to use a car. The whole point that the Green Party has constantly brought here is that if you actually invest in the alternatives to using a car\u2014like the top five best countries in the world for roads that the National Party liked to cite before the election, until they realised all of those places were implementing Green-style transport and urban development policies, and that\u2019s why they\u2019re such good countries for people to drive cars in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t have the option for people to use public transport, because subsequent Governments have failed to invest in it and that has taken away people\u2019s choice to get around without a car. So their entire strategy now is electrification of cars, and yet they\u2019re taking away the one policy that was actually supporting and making it easier for New Zealanders to get into electric cars. The mind boggles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut the reality is\u2014and I know they must be really high on the success of the election and feeling good with all their repeals\u2014that at some point, this Government is going to have to figure out how to actually solve the problem. The Prime Minister says he\u2019s committed to the carbon budgets. He\u2019s committed to achieving them, and yet all of the evidence we\u2019ve received from the Climate Change Commission and the Ministry of Transport says that in order to achieve those carbon budgets, we need a price signal at the point of purchase of vehicles so that people can find it easier to get into more electric vehicles. And that\u2019s what the Clean Car Discount was. It was a price incentive at the point of purchase and import into the country. Because once you\u2019ve already purchased the vehicle, having the price incentive on a bit of fuel doesn\u2019t work to influence the cars that are coming into the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI have done my best to share the evidence, to share the rationale, to explain to the members in the Government how they had an opportunity to do something that was good for the climate, that was good for people, and that people would have supported, and the saddest thing for me is that they chose to make people feel bad about contributing to the Clean Car Discount, when people could have felt good about it. I think New Zealanders do want to do the right thing. They want to be part of the solution, and if they\u2014[Interruption] And they absolutely had the ability to buy the high-polluting vehicles. They had that ability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThey can also continue to contribute to cleaning up the other vehicles on the road. Because if they need that ute or if they need that Range Rover, that $150,000 Range Rover\u2014if they need that to drop the kids off in Remuera and, you know, then if that\u2019s what they need\u2014and I respect that\u2019s their need\u2014then it\u2019s fair to ask those people buying brand-new Range Rovers to contribute something to getting more zero-emissions cars on the road. Because we won\u2019t be able to solve the climate crisis as individuals; we will do it together. We will do it by working together. People can feel proud of their contribution to the stunning increase in zero- and low-emissions vehicles that we\u2019ve seen over the past two years. I want to give a shoutout\u2014of course, many of the members of the Government, including the Prime Minister and a few senior Ministers, their families took the rebate for their electric vehicles. But then now they\u2019ve repealed it, so other people can\u2019t access that benefit, which is another stunning example of hypocrisy from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut people should feel good about the increase that we\u2019ve had to electric vehicles on the road, and if they paid a little bit more for their high-emissions vehicle, they can know they were part of the solution and they were, for a brief time, part of a policy that actually radically reduced the average emissions of the vehicles coming into the New Zealand fleet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe will hold the Government to account as we see what the consequences of repealing this are, but, no matter what, they can\u2019t take away the two megatonne of carbon emissions that we saved. They can\u2019t take away the fact that we kickstarted, in a big way, the rush to electric vehicles and electrification. They will slow it down, but they can\u2019t take it away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI just want to, finally, shout out to the Hon Michael Wood, who brought this policy through, who listened to the evidence even though the Labour Party hadn\u2019t campaigned on the policy. He listened to the officials and said we have to have this price incentive, and he brought the policy in. So good on the Hon Michael Wood for doing that and sticking to his guns. The Green Party will continue to promote the positive, practical solutions that our country needs to address the real challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4955e5df4de40d3842be20c2755164c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4955e5df4de40d3842be20c2755164c\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to thank the Minister for bringing this bill to the House and honouring the coalition agreement between ACT and National. ACT campaigned strongly on the repeal of this law. It disproportionately affects some of the constituents we are most keen to represent, particularly the rural community, who this ute tax unfairly affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019ve just heard is\u2014I mean, this has been an incoherent policy, as we\u2019ve heard throughout the day. It\u2019s unsustainable and it actually doesn\u2019t make sense. What this Government is doing is actually restoring a sensible, coherent climate change policy that will actually work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003ESo I want to say ACT is very proud to be a part of the Government and to get this law repealed, and I want to say it\u2019s actually a demonstration of where we identified bad public policy and we\u2019re addressing it and actually putting correct public policy in place to address the serious issues that have faced New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022b17997d7fff8494bb3eb00cb81af3afe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b17997d7fff8494bb3eb00cb81af3afe\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support this bill through the third reading. I have made in the first two\u2014what are they called these days? I haven\u2019t been here for\u2014the first two readings, thank you. It was a late night last night. In the first two readings I\u2019ve articulated my case, so I won\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EBut one thing I will do\u2014as the new Minister for Rural Communities, I want to take issue with Julie Anne Genter. She talked about this taking options away. It\u2019s taking no options away for urban people. They can still buy their Teslas. This is a deeply regressive tax for rural communities. It is a direct transfer of money from rural to urban, particularly utes. They\u2019re not lifestyle choices, as the member over there tried to articulate before. They carry tools, they carry stock feed, they carry the dogs, they carry injured stock at times, and those utes don\u2019t have viable alternatives. They don\u2019t live near a cycle lane.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI went out on my first visit as Minister to Tair\u0101whiti last week. I went out to the Bruce Road, about an hour out of Gisborne. There were four families out there, all represented, all waiting on the other side of a river. Their bridge had been washed away. The culvert bridge that was put up as a replacement that they had to wait six months for had been washed away as well in an ensuing rainfall event. I\u2019d like any of the members opposite to go and visit those families, who were really deeply distressed, who had to handle infrastructure that was absolutely devastated by, yes, a weather event and, yes, impacted by climate change. They don\u2019t have the option. They have to get to town. They have to get to work. They have to get supplies in. They have to get stock out and get their kids to school and get them home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ESo those are the sort of people that you\u2019re not thinking about when you\u2019re having your intellectual arguments about whether urban people have choices. If they want to have the choice of buying a Tesla, they can buy one, but don\u2019t punish those that need a ute. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022 data-id=\u002273b3b718fe86455593705fb6053e982c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273b3b718fe86455593705fb6053e982c\u0022\u003EDARLEEN TANA (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, colleagues in the Whare, I would like to just start by acknowledging the honourable members who gave their maiden speech today in the Whare. It was really moving. One of the things that stood out for me in the k\u014Drero was the need to listen to each other. I\u2019ll confess, being a newbie MP in this space, I\u2019ve been a little surprised, I suppose, at the behaviour, for what passes for rigorous debate. I would just like to echo the words of a new member spoken earlier this afternoon about the need to just listen to what is being said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EWe are in a climate crisis. Irrespective of, you know, what\u2019s going to go down today with respect to this bill, 2 megatonnes of carbon dioxide were saved thanks to this policy. This Government had an opportunity to achieve a net marginal abatement cost, and, frankly, I find that stunning coming from that side of the Whare which purports to know something about business. Earlier in the day, during the second reading, I suggested that we read the user manual on how to navigate the Clean Car Discount fee rebate system. We\u2019ve missed a beat by getting us this far. I\u2019m very interested to hear what the regulatory impact statement, when it is finally finalised, has to say about the fiscal neutrality of this policy. We see many overseas examples where the mechanism has been in place for more than 20 years and they have achieved fiscal neutrality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EI want to celebrate a little bit on behalf of New Zealanders who, thanks to the Clean Car Discount and Clean Car Standard, have a greater choice thanks to applying those mechanisms at the supply side so that the vehicle importers could bring a wider choice of electric vehicles into the country and at a faster rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226896cc2b839042188990118a69dcd9c4\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s nothing stopping them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268e3c6d8cd29428087da0f5abf3721bb\u0022\u003EDARLEEN TANA\u003C/span\u003E: There is nothing stopping them, you\u2019re right, but the thing is it was too early to pull the plug. As I say, I\u2019m looking forward to hearing what the regulatory impact statement has to say about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228f868e0-e859-4953-979a-78aa7a3b5e25\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to close. We do not commend this bill at all, but I would like to thank you all for listening to my k\u014Drero this afternoon. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022340f1f20c1ca48a0a0985356dd952da6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022340f1f20c1ca48a0a0985356dd952da6\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Today is a good day. The Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill will get rid of the fiscally irresponsible and blatantly unfair Clean Car Discount scheme, also known as the \u201Cute tax\u201D. This ute tax and Clean Car Discount is a reverse Robin Hood scheme which is taxing hard-working Kiwis, for the vehicles they need, to subsidise other people to buy new cars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ETo our hard-working famers and tradies: you have done it tough for the last six years. Under the previous Government, you were public enemy number one. Well, under this Government, we back you. You are the backbone of our country, and we are here to work for you and support you. I\u2019m proud to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d1f063f294884faca130d2c81f813a69\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Discount Scheme Repeal) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 67\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 48; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001063\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0f4c251c95c4817832ce139c8977132\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0f4c251c95c4817832ce139c8977132\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 19 December 2023. Thank you, everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20231212e9ed8b7fc9784f6da06c0a364b7dd884001065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6.22 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"