"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225c4ee3d4cd014afa8ded0a6476b6f554\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 19 MARCH 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228bad795921f94759972826b9c606dec1\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 19 MARCH 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ebd96558d2cb4b0398bd7f9f0ceecaeb\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4f72ae90bc94e92808281226e8bb43e\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002267b19d2171af46daab60025a21b27eef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267b19d2171af46daab60025a21b27eef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022041960a50ec34465a116d66e51cc186f\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c361ab70bb947fe91a23769b6e47239\u0022\u003ERt Hon Jonathan Lucas Hunt ONZ\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002242e954c3f8304c0481f1f1f385fe407e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242e954c3f8304c0481f1f1f385fe407e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I regret to inform the House of the death, on 8 March 2024, of the Rt Hon Jonathan Lucas Hunt ONZ, who represented the electorate of New Lynn from 1966 to 1993 and continued to serve as a list member until 2005. He was the Speaker of the House of Representatives from 1999 until 2005. Before becoming Speaker, he held several ministerial portfolios, including Minister of Broadcasting, Postmaster-General, Minister of Tourism, and Minister of Communications. I desire, on behalf of this House, to express our sense of loss to his family along with our sympathy as they deal with the death of the late former member. I now ask members to stand with me to observe a period of silence as a mark of respect for his memory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMembers stood as a mark of respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c8402ba351c64670ac43a86ce2586edd\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002291f67633ec1c4830903fd607ebfefcec\u0022\u003ECook Islands\u2014Cook Islands Parliament\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00227ef2562a44294eef84f7f6b7b3e0af95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ef2562a44294eef84f7f6b7b3e0af95\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that members would wish to welcome the Hon Tingika Elikana, Chairperson of the Cook Islands Parliament Public Accounts Committee, and his accompanying delegation, who are present here in the gallery today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a814a5aca10d4416adfc54bf7581b369\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c73277d77f94352ad3cc41fda23e34d\u0022\u003EDame Kiri Te Kanawa\u201480th Birthday\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022acfc85d30afe455289d1ee5b9040f92d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acfc85d30afe455289d1ee5b9040f92d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We come now to a very special occasion for Parliament. In accordance with a determination of the Business Committee, I call on the Hon Paul Goldsmith to move a motion without notice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022331152a80be24a1ea7c3c7c820b9f634\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022331152a80be24a1ea7c3c7c820b9f634\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That this House recognise the achievements and career of Dame Kiri Te Kanawa and congratulate her as she celebrates her 80th birthday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EVery few New Zealanders attain global pre-eminence in their field; even fewer hold on to that pre-eminence for decades. Dame Kiri Te Kanawa was one such Kiwi. Her 80th birthday provides an opportunity for us to acknowledge her talent and her distinguished career. This House is a place of debate and confrontation, as well as cooperation, but it should also be a place where, from time to time, we pause to reflect on the great deeds of some of our fellow New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EKiri began her journey in Gisborne, then travelled with her adopted family to Auckland to learn her craft from Sister Mary Leo. In 1971, she made her Covent Garden debut as the Countess in Mozart\u2019s Marriage of Figaro. From there, she ascended to the highest levels of international opera, thrilling audiences and reviewers alike. One wrote, \u201CShe makes hideously difficult music sound easy as pie.\u201D When Charles and Diana married in 1981, before a global audience of 600 million, the royal family turned to Kiri Te Kanawa to sing Handel\u2019s Let the bright Seraphim\u2014the seraphim is a form of angel, Willie. I remember watching the wedding in the middle of the night and feeling the feeling of pride that came with seeing a Kiwi at the heart of such an event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EHonours have been heaped on her, including the Order of New Zealand and the Order of Australia. As well as thrilling audiences, she\u2019s inspired many fellow New Zealanders to reach for the stars. She inspires, but she also helps. Twenty years ago, her Kiri Te Kanawa Foundation, as King Charles noticed, was established and has helped more than 40 singers succeed globally as well. Dame Kiri Te Kanawa, we honour you today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022be90850fdacd4382b663db5f69db3d78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be90850fdacd4382b663db5f69db3d78\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mihi ki a koe e te whaea, tae mai nei whakarangatira i a m\u0101tou i t\u0113nei w\u0101, haere mai, haere mai, haere mai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[Warm convivial greetings to you, madam. It is an honour to have you here with us today. Welcome, welcome, welcome.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI rise to salute and celebrate the 80th birthday of Dame Kiri Te Kanawa, on behalf of the Labour Party and particularly our Labour M\u0101ori caucus. And I emphasise \u201CM\u0101ori\u201D because Dame Kiri is probably the most famous M\u0101ori performer of the last two generations. She comes, of course, from two very humble tribes: the first humble one, Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto, and then the even more humble tribe of Ngati Porou, which, coincidentally, happens to be my iwi also, which, I think, makes us relations. But we do want to wish her happy birthday and, of course, thank her for her significant contribution to music and the fine arts as one of the great world sopranos.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe know, of course, of her beautiful renditions of great composers such as Puccini, Mozart, and Strauss, but it is in the M\u0101ori language area that I really want to thank her. Her M\u0101ori language album in 1999 and her 2014 album Waiata really elevated te reo M\u0101ori to the world stage. Beautiful songs like \u201CKaru Karu\u201D, \u201CP\u014Dkarekare Ana\u201D, and \u201CTarakihi\u201D are now absolutely huge hits around the world. So we thank her; we thank her for her contribution to our M\u0101ori language. And I was reminded by the M\u0101ori caucus that we\u2019ve lost a few seats and we have an available spot in the North at the moment, Dame Kiri! So feel free to get in touch with me if you feel the need to join politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ET\u0113nei te mihi ki a koe e te wh\u0101ea, mihi nui ki a koe m\u014D t\u014D tautoko i t\u014D t\u0101tou reo. E te m\u0101reikura, ko t\u0113nei te mihi maioha ki a koe, ko koe t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 tauira mana wahine i te ao M\u0101ori i te ao wh\u0101nui. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[This is a warm greeting to you, madam, and a thankyou also for supporting our language. Dear madam, this is a warm convivial greeting to you. You are a true reflection of M\u0101ori woman for the M\u0101ori people and everyone else as well. Cheers, everyone.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00222d7dff03177745ef8a5d20b209b8762a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d7dff03177745ef8a5d20b209b8762a\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. E te m\u0101reikura, t\u0113nei te mihi haritau ki a koe e te wh\u0101ea, e te kuia. Nei r\u0101 taku h\u014Dnore te mihi ki a koe i t\u014D huritau me ng\u0101 piki me ng\u0101 heke o t\u014D haerenga, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E[Dear friend, happy birthday to you, dear matriarch, dear esteemed one. It is my honour to acknowledge you on your special born day and the trials and tribulations of your journey. Greetings to you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIt was indeed my honour today to want to speak and put my hand up to be able to honour Dame Kiri Te Kanawa, who I\u2019m not sure will remember, but back in, I think, the mid to late 1980s\u2014my father is Rawiri Paratene. He directed and toured with you for a documentary that was made at the time, and I toured with him. I was on that road trip, which I believe might have started at Te Poho-o-Rawiri Marae, in T\u016Branga-nui. I think we travelled around \u016Aawa, Hauiti. We spoke to the Kerekere wh\u0101nau, the Te Kani wh\u0101nau, Bob Mahuika. In that documentary, Dame Kiri Te Kanawa was also spreading waiata M\u0101ori in among the different captions and the different parts of that documentary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI was a young girl, and I was very, very pleased today\u2014I don\u2019t think that I have had the chance to see you up close since those decades ago. It was one of the proudest moments for my father to be able to be involved with touring with you. We got to see a part of the countryside that we hadn\u2019t seen before in many of the times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI remember that we also went through the sort of Waitomo Caves area, and one of the biggest memories of that whole trip was, I remember, us also staying on Lake Taup\u014D for some of your visit, and the interviews that we were doing. I remember us being able to fit in a trip to Waitomo Caves while we were in these areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI just remember the grace. I was a young girl who wasn\u2019t fully steeped in the land of opera, but what I do remember is the grace with which Dame Kiri held what seemed to me like the privilege of returning home and being with wh\u0101nau on marae. I remember the stays on the various marae, and the wh\u0101nau being really clear that they wanted to source some caravans for you to also have some space, and we really wanted to honour that. But I just remember your grace and your wanting to be a part of all of these connections back to t\u016Brangawaewae and whakapapa and wh\u0101nau at the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EMy father will be so pleased to know that I have been able to raise that on the floor today, to congratulate you on your incredible international and decades of longstanding fame because of your unique talent and ability\u2014fancy having one of our own wahine M\u0101ori right at the top of international and longstanding acknowledgment of talent in opera in the singing space. So it really is my pleasure. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Hari huritau [Happy birthday], Dame Kiri Te Kanawa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2dd16fac57548b8814bc732f6e7b920\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2dd16fac57548b8814bc732f6e7b920\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. On behalf of ACT, I\u2019d like to join with other party leaders in offering congratulations and respect and aroha to you, Dame Kiri, at the time of your 80th birthday and for your magnificent career. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s fair to say, as Paul Goldsmith has said, that Kiwis love it when one of us stands on top of the world, a pre-eminent for such a long period of time, but also, the fact that you did it at a time when most of us were best known for rugby, racing, and beer, showed the world and ourselves that we could be something different, that we could be at the top of the world in opera. I think it helped New Zealanders find out who we are in the world and not just stand proudly but stand in a different way. And for so many New Zealanders who stand differently in many respects of their life, I suspect that what you did was a revelation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOther members have shared stories and anecdotes of their connection to you throughout their lives. I was unfortunate to have to wait until just this afternoon to meet you, but it was well worth it. And I hear stories about your very accurate shooting of pheasants with none other than the Queen. Now, you know, the Labour Party have offered you a membership, but could I just suggest that maybe they\u2019re not the right party for you after all. And besides, I hate to think what they\u2019d tax you! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EDame Kiri, you are a true gem and a treasure for our nation. We\u2019re so honoured to have you here in our Parliament today. When we hear that soaring note\u2014which I promise I will not repeat\u2014at the end of the first line of \u201CP\u014Dkarekare Ana\u201D, the hairs on the back of our necks stand up because it reminds us of who we are and the best of all New Zealand. Happy birthday and thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6c4ea99ef3649e88680702754fa1067\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6c4ea99ef3649e88680702754fa1067\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I begin my contribution on behalf of my leader, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, and the New Zealand First caucus in joining the House in celebrating Dame Kiri Te Kanawa\u2019s 80th birthday, acknowledging you here today. We are blessed to have you amongst us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EI begin with this whakatauk\u012B, Ko te pae tawhiti wh\u0101ia kia tata, ko te pae tata whakamaua kia tina\u2014seek out distant horizons and cherish those you attain. Today, as we celebrate your birthday, of the legendary New Zealand soprano who has made a remarkable rise to global fame, and started with your very first public appearance at the age of six years old on Gisborne\u2019s radio station\u2014boy, the careers that radio has launched! You sang an 1892 ditty called \u201CDaisy Bell\u201D. I don\u2019t think anyone knows it, but once I say these lyrics, I\u2019m sure many of us know the song:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EDaisy, Daisy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EGive me your answer do\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EI\u2019m half crazy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EAll for the love of you\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EYou also went on, in terms of music and your career, receiving New Zealand\u2019s first ever gold disc for music sales\u2014what an achievement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EOthers in this House have acknowledged those incredible tohu, those attainments you achieved in your career, but one, for me, really stands out. This is my most favourite period drama ever created for television: Downton Abbey. You performed in that just so beautifully, playing the Australian soprano Dame Nellie Melba, so I think it\u2019s appropriate that we also acknowledge your film and stage performances alike. Not only that, you had all the cast and crew in tears throughout your practices for that show. That\u2019s the power of your voice, to bring people to an emotional place in themselves. Not only that, you had two little dogs that you took on set, and then your third little dog was named Abbey once she was born, after Downton Abbey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003EKiri Te Kanawa, you have enjoyed one of the longest careers in operatic history\u2014we acknowledge you for that\u2014but you continue to make a difference by nurturing new talent, dedicating your time to training and the next generation of singers. As one of the world\u2019s greatest opera singers, the iconic New Zealander of the Year in 2012, you never forgot where you came from. As a M\u0101ori opera singer, you brought a piece of New Zealand to the world in a vehicle that wasn\u2019t M\u0101ori. We congratulate you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003ESo, to conclude, I\u2019ll finish with a whakatauk\u012B from a beautiful book titled Mauri Ora: Wisdom from the M\u0101ori World, \u201CTohaina \u014D p\u0101inga ki te ao\u201D\u2014share your gifts with the world. Those gifts we receive, and the impact that these gifts can have on the world, are amplified when we share them, when we share our knowledge with a new generation. So, today, in this House of Parliament, we celebrate our Dame, our Kahurangi, on her 80th\u00A0birthday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00229f6f0952c828429a8af56596867a6a67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f6f0952c828429a8af56596867a6a67\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Waimarie ana au ki te t\u016B ki te mihi atu ki t\u0113nei t\u014Dku nei rangatira, e Kiri t\u0113n\u0101 koe, e te Speaker t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e Kiri i t\u0113nei r\u0101 whakanui i a koe kua eke ki te 80\u00A0tau. E te kura wahine o Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto and Willie\u2019s crew, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E[I am honoured to stand before you and acknowledge our esteemed leader, Kiri. Greetings to you, dear Speaker, and everyone present. Greetings to you all. Acknowledgments to you, Kiri, on this special day of yours turning 80. Dear madam of Ng\u0101ti Maniapoto and of Willie\u2019s crew, warm convivial greetings.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EA woman of many accolades that, of course, would not fit into this brief address to the House. Heoi an\u014D, what I can and do admire the most is your significant and sustained effort to foster the talent of the younger generations, particularly through the Kiri Te Kanawa Foundation. You\u2019ve inspired, as well as helped, young M\u0101ori invoke the ancestral magic that lies in their whakapapa, and provided the platform to expose that to the world. That is mana tuku iho [handed down], and that is also what we stand for as Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori: creating a mokopuna-centric world, where we can be whole, as opposed to lesser than. Of course, we need look no further than our darling of Te Tai Tokerau Kawiti Waetford, who will be gracing us shortly with his M\u0101ori magic. N\u0101u ia i ako i poipoi n\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koe, hari r\u0101 wh\u0101nau, e Kiri, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E[You nurtured and mentored him, and so thank you. Happy birthday, Kiri. Thank you, everyone.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6de3fc8de404c6fb4efbf53df9574f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6de3fc8de404c6fb4efbf53df9574f8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That this House recognise the achievements and career of Dame Kiri Te Kanawa and congratulate her as she celebrates her 80th birthday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EWaiata\u2014\u201CP\u014Dkarekare Ana\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ec489eed1f3466f971bb18a371b2654\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d7d5e59e54f4973af8dbcc13cef147e\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f36ac711f8284201919778f1c5f90a73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f36ac711f8284201919778f1c5f90a73\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Petitions have been presented to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022de09eae5ea1b45d5a6168c10b50ddd99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de09eae5ea1b45d5a6168c10b50ddd99\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Louise Bint requesting that the House make available low-interest loans or force mortgagors to reduce interest rates for property owners displaced due to the North Island weather events\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Brian Webb requesting that the House pass legislation to allow all those on benefits to earn an amount equivalent to eight hours at the minimum wage a week before any deductions to their benefit and to reduce reduction rates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Focus on Iran requesting that the House urge the Government to consider and take appropriate action to expel the Iranian ambassador. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002202362f87196d4e51aaa5e1a94eef3614\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202362f87196d4e51aaa5e1a94eef3614\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022f34ea02552494d2cb038c90ce442861b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f34ea02552494d2cb038c90ce442861b\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EGovernment responses to the report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on its inquiry into illegal, unregulated, and unreported fishing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Justice Committee on its inquiry into the 2022 local elections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Primary Production Committee on its inquiry into the future of workforce needs in primary industries in New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Regulations Review Committee on its inquiry into bylaws\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2023-24 statement of performance expectations for Te Taura Whiri i te Reo M\u0101ori\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReserve Bank of New Zealand Monetary Policy Statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b30e060b22a740e69a4fc90065374835\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b30e060b22a740e69a4fc90065374835\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022e95578120efc4d45b635765eb3e40f4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e95578120efc4d45b635765eb3e40f4f\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2022-23 annual review of the Ministry of Defence and the New Zealand Defence Force\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EEuropean Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Health Committee on the Misuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Justice Committee on the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2022-23 annual reviews of the Criminal Cases Review Commission, Crown Law, and Electoral Commission; Executive Board for the Elimination of Family Violence and Sexual Violence, HRC, and IPCA; Judicial Conduct Commissioner, Law Commission, and Parliamentary Counsel Office; Privacy Commissioner and Serious Fraud Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EElectoral (Lowering Voting Age for Local Elections and Polls) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab1040b8a29d4bae9ad84db3002dccbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab1040b8a29d4bae9ad84db3002dccbb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bills are set down for second reading. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b181ed51a21a48388cb9314e25abed71\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d2c6affd0f2944268ed20d025dc90eba\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6aa3d96ba334ed68a189bee528aa69d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f29f537e00974e3db51cb421f1db16d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f29f537e00974e3db51cb421f1db16d6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee5d8efed721429db9d7bff8bd9821d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee5d8efed721429db9d7bff8bd9821d6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely, and including yesterday\u2019s announcement that this Government will finally hold K\u0101inga Ora (KO) tenants who are threatening, abusive, and violent towards their neighbours to account for their actions. Our Government believes in rights and responsibilities, so if you contribute to a culture of intimidation and abuse, it\u2019s time to change your behaviour, and if you don\u2019t, you may not keep your taxpayer-funded State house. There are just far too many families on the wait-list who would respect that property and respect their neighbours to just privilege those current KO tenants who wage a war of abuse in the community. It\u2019s not right, and I agree with the member when he said that after six years in Government, he didn\u2019t do enough to crack down on unruly tenants. Well, the good news is enough is enough. This Government was elected to change, and we\u2019re going to do exactly that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1705f511cf74bc78807096d4e3c6d07\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Deputy Prime Minister correct that the Government has a $5.6 billion Budget shortfall and that there is \u201Ca huge gap\u201D in its pre-election costings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffca6c3695c54842b6171143ad1db405\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I can tell you I\u2019m not going to take any lectures from that member about economic management. That was a Government that was characterised by spending more, taxing more, borrowing more, and we heard from the new finance spokesperson they want to continue to do more of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e0ac1d75ee34ffab3a3a0921d94e246\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a very straightforward question as to whether a statement by the current Deputy Prime Minister was correct. It had nothing to do with the previous Government at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5a96a2b9e63404ba2b05d3fa3a0c1c1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that\u2019s true. It could\u2019ve been answered with one word and then perhaps some elaboration. The Prime Minister might like to have another go at that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296d50551a9dc45529e9f37953ef99d9d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019ve inherited a struggling economy from the previous Government\u2019s economic mismanagement, and we\u2019ve got some big fiscal challenges ahead of us, but we\u2019re the Government that\u2019s going to fix it. We\u2019ll do it; that\u2019s what we always do, and we\u2019re going to clean up after your last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f2eb69bd63241c3b1249a3ac715a513\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the IRD correct that his Government\u2019s proposed tax on offshore online casino operators will raise $155 million over four years, or are the \u201Crock-solid\u201D costings that he and Nicola Willis produced correct, suggesting the change will bring $716 million of revenue over the same period\u2014a difference of over $500 million?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de1230ebc82646cd94019a193f772791\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I can reassure the member about is that this is a Government that\u2019s going to give tax relief to working New Zealanders, low and middle income workers who actually deserve a tax break after 14 years of not getting one, particularly from that previous Government. That\u2019s what we\u2019re going to deliver for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223beadb0f02eb46089e9452adab338ec5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Which numbers are correct: his rock-solid estimate of the savings that his cuts to benefit adjustments will make, or the latest official advice that they\u2019ll save $1.3 billion less than he promised before the election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022180261d7f4cf4488b7832fd99e29e30b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I can tell the member the numbers that we\u2019re not going to be doing. We\u2019re not going to increase Government spending by 84\u00A0percent. We\u2019re not going to hire 16,000 more public servants. We\u2019re not going to increase Government debt from $5 billion to $100 billion and actually have nothing to show for it. We\u2019re a Government that\u2019s going to fix this economy, we\u2019re going to grow the economy, give people tax relief, and ensure there\u2019s a culture of fiscal discipline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022453ffbc533de47a98a5e6c880032445a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, which numbers are correct: his rock-solid pre-election estimate of the cost of tax cuts for landlords or the latest official advice that they will cost $800 million more than he promised before the election?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251ec1f2d19634fe2b2e724750cc3528f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I think what\u2019s great is we care about renters, a group that the Labour Party used to care about a lot. Actually, we\u2019re increasing the supply of rental properties, we\u2019re lowering costs that have just been passed through to renters\u2014because under that Government, average rents went up $170 a week. That\u2019s not going to happen under our Government. We want downward pressure on rents, not upward pressure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e562219d251a456a873478c0dcf204a6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he claim on 11 March that he hadn\u2019t seen the advice that his Government\u2019s tax cuts for landlords had blown out by $800 million, given his finance Minister had already publicly confirmed that that was the case, or has he just given up on trying to keep track of all of his Government\u2019s Budget blowouts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bd24cce84344bb1a48d36c8ec601fff\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll tell you who I haven\u2019t given up on, and it\u2019s the renters of New Zealand. Under that Government, average rents went up $170 a week. Well, I\u2019m sorry, we\u2019re here to fix things. We\u2019re here to get the country turned around. We\u2019re going to get things done, and we\u2019re going to make sure that there\u2019s more rental property available. We don\u2019t just load up landlords with costs that pass on to renters that lead to higher rents. We want lower rents, downward pressure on rents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280f0bb235362408e93c144fce5dd2850\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Will tenants get $800 million worth of rent reductions as a result of this policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7288dad74a04ba4899c45a7aaeda99b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What we will be doing is increasing the supply of rental property and putting downward pressure on rent, as he has received in\u00A0formal\u00A0advice before in Government. That\u2019s why his policies didn\u2019t work. They ended up\u00A0increasing average rents\u2014that\u2019s not acceptable. We\u2019re on the side of renters in\u00A0New\u00A0Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238ad198b42904355b6d82fdd4e971656\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I accept the Prime Minister hasn\u2019t answered any of my questions thus far, but that was a relatively simple and straightforward question about an $800 million policy which he claims is going to lower rents. I\u2019ve asked whether it will result in $800 million worth of rent reductions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f5cf29f6f9049da8d2a0e7cd626de43\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said just recently in Parliament, it\u2019s a good idea if people refer to the point of order or the matter of order they\u2019re referring to. Given your opening statement there, I think you probably closed off some opportunities. But can I just say that no member has the right to expect a yes or no answer, and the final line of that line of questioning really did invite the response that the member got.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d8370583a0a4aa1b0fa9ce88bd2a203\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Christopher Luxon, \u201CI can tell you in the National Party we understand the economy and we are rock solid in our numbers.\u201D, given his tax promises were $800 million out on interest deductibility, more than $500 million out on gambling, and $1.3 billion out on benefit indexation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f6441c495b498d9848172b5dc017d4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look, I can tell you it is ironic that you are trying to lecture me on economics after six years of being in Government, of actually causing huge damage to our books, having had economic mismanagement and vandalism on a scale we\u2019ve never seen before, an 84 percent increase in Government spending. You drove up domestic inflation, you drove up interest rates, the last three quarters of the last year\u2019s economic growth went down, and you\u2019ve got rising unemployment. So I don\u2019t take lectures from you on anything to do with economics, thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233765215ae3846dd927781cb7fd7c4ba\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just point out that it wasn\u2019t me lecturing the Prime Minister of any of\u00A0those things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdb1fdbf1dd7469e8cdc6fab225a42ea\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the fiscal impact of the mortgage interest deductibility changes is greater than the estimate of one party and closer to the estimate of another party in the coalition, because this Government is actually a coalition of three partners working together for a better New Zealand, and does he have any advice for the guy on the other side who has no friends?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6cdd1e0a6404aa2b2012bd43a141ace\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very proud of the way that the three parties in this coalition Government are working to actually get things done for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002277d19fbb1b9b4c38a90accee599f427d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00226ed87a137ad44a46b42476ba3b2b5501\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ed87a137ad44a46b42476ba3b2b5501\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: By how much has Government debt increased in recent years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc6374ca1eaf44529ec48206f6ce28f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc6374ca1eaf44529ec48206f6ce28f5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In 2008, net core Crown debt\u2014a measure which includes Government financial assets as well as financial liabilities\u2014was 5 percent of GDP. Despite the global financial crisis (GFC), both the Key-English Government and the following Labour Government, at least initially, had a goal of keeping net debt to 20 percent of GDP or below. In 2019, it was 19 percent. What is it now? Net core Crown debt, according to the latest forecasts\u2014[Interruption] Members opposite laugh, but I think most New Zealanders would be interested in this grave number. They don\u2019t think it\u2019s very laughable\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022204f278c4c9a41939c135c533e26f9e1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Previous Speakers have ruled very clearly that Ministers can\u2019t ask themselves questions, and they particularly can\u2019t ask themselves questions when they\u2019re in the process of answering one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ebadec9828246b5afc4c621df19459e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s quite true, but I think, in this case, the question that was asked was being paraphrased. I\u2019m taking a generous view on that. We will have the answer with the appropriate brevity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228511ad3f1d5b40af9fbecfbacea085ab\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Net core Crown debt, according to the latest forecasts, is now 44 percent of GDP\u201444 percent\u2014a considerable increase in only five years. To put it in perspective, members, 44 percent of GDP is the highest that net debt has been as a proportion of the overall economy in 30 years, comparable only with the period from the late 1980s to the mid-1990s.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c597e65670bd444a91ce51d186135385\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What has caused debt to increase so quickly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e226c5d3b3484b05b9dd8982d7c21bd0\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, COVID-19 was a big reason that net core Crown debt increased so quickly, but Government spending outside of COVID has also increased significantly, with Treasury advising me that the previous Government left us with a structural operating deficit of around 2 percent of GDP. The result is that net core Crown debt increased from around $59 billion in 2017 to $183 billion this year, an increase of more than $100 billion in six short years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022339d6ae5a8b14f8290778b244edcff3a\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen any other explanations for the recent increase in debt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022161257a9c61640cab127d2093d299f9f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, I have seen reports that the reason debt increased so much was that the previous Government was making so many high-quality infrastructure investments. In particular, one not exactly impartial observer recently said that increasing debt \u201Chas enabled us to invest more in transport, into health and education capital, more into the things we need to underpin the kind of society and economy we want\u201D. I have searched for evidence of such high-quality investment, but amongst the wreckage of light rail, the Auckland harbour cycle bridge\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022297a0c9ea270422586f787d1a3eaf54a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019ll be enough\u2014[Interruption] That\u2019s enough. Can I just remind the member asking the question that you can\u2019t use the question process to attack the Opposition. You can, of course, ask it in a way that is reflective of what conditions Ministers may find themselves in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de4f45d08134493cb30a83d17b38df38\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Should the Government borrow for productive investments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214bc98b73774592858f9daa358561ad\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. That is one of the reasons the Government should borrow: to fund high-quality investments that provide benefits to New Zealanders over time, including those that increase the productive capacity of the economy. But I would add one important note of caution: economic shocks push up debt quite considerably. We\u2019ve seen this recently with the global financial crisis and with COVID. After a shock, Governments have to either bring debt down again as a percentage of GDP, which necessarily requires constraint, or let debt settle at a higher level. New Zealand has seen public debt ratchet up like this since 2008. I would invite members to engage in a little thought experiment, where we went through the GFC and COVID with a starting point for net debt of 50 percent of GDP rather than 5 percent; so Governments should always be thinking about the next shock that\u2019s around the corner, not just maxing out the credit card today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df673eacd72f4f1cb73ce1742436949d\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen any commentators arguing for higher debt?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269e5232c1fcd407993d615099c3339a1\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes. I have seen a report saying that a future Government would consider taking on more debt, despite New Zealand\u2019s debt being the highest for 30 years, despite us having little to show for it, and despite interest costs rising to $8.8 billion this year. I\u2019m disappointed to hear that coming from a member of this House, Barbara Edmonds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220885adb369c64406b3771ca83e0c1e7c\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Treasury chief economist who has stated, \u201COur key point is that current debt levels in New Zealand are well within the range that we would consider prudent.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229015632eb9e943599e50e6e22b610449\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I agree that that definition of \u201Cprudent\u201D is met. What I question is whether New Zealanders can see $123 billion worth of value generated by that Government for the $123 billion worth of debt that they have saddled this and future generations with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cd8a0795fd0c4fd99bf8bdc0825b863f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u002273c51d6cb27a4a2cac5fce95d66e35de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273c51d6cb27a4a2cac5fce95d66e35de\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement, and I quote, \u201CI think everyone agrees that the State must always provide a safety net for New Zealanders who have fallen on hard times \u2026 and State houses will \u2026 play a very important part of that safety net\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022398b2deefef248e389813e14dfed2d7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022398b2deefef248e389813e14dfed2d7b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely. But, before I begin, can I just congratulate the member on her ascendancy to the leadership of the Green Party, or co-leadership of the Green Party. Absolutely, including those State tenants who have been abused and victimised by their neighbours. Take Cheyne Smith, who\u2019s been a K\u0101inga Ora (KO) tenant since 2015 and described the actions of some of his neighbouring KO tenants. He said, \u201CI\u2019ve been beaten, the house has been robbed, egged, bottled. Visitors were assaulted, vehicles got stolen. It was a nightmare.\u201D The previous Government and their friends in the Green Party promoted a policy that facilitated a culture of intimidation and abuse, and I\u2019m very proud that our Government is going to deliver change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ff3dfe3db1d4436a32669ba8e83da22\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Can he guarantee that no children in this country will be made homeless as a result of his Government\u2019s policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3bb18336428412cb9f6c07bfd6278be\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we don\u2019t want to actually see KO tenants being evicted from KO housing, but, actually, the parents are adults and they have a choice to make about whether they want to meet their obligations and their responsibilities. That is the first port of call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a2ff39718864d5b8ffe69e38a40318c\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Will he resign if any children are made homeless as a result of his Government\u2019s policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edd3d1dda09c41acb7ddb6fc579a9098\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: There are children that are growing up in motels today, that are living on floors of family or friends, or in community housing provider housing, who actually want a shot, and their families want a shot, at being able to get into the State house. The problem today is that there are 24,000 people on a State house wait-list, which went up four or five times under the previous Government. There are neighbours in those KO communities who are getting abused, and I\u2019m sorry, but we\u2019re standing up for those folk and saying to them, \u201CThere are rights and responsibilities in this country\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aad413b362c9480990f99d5ed5489f2b\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: So is the game plan here that those who are evicted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e73b60719731474d9ba22df6ba21d8ac\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, stop\u2014stop. Start with a question word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a075b4c04ee14a0bbec7bc995fe4a706\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the plan here that those evicted from public housing are made homeless or eventually end up in prison?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cfe0cbeb5d84b3e8e62b410885140e5\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: The plan here is to give people a shot of getting a State house\u2014who deserve a shot at getting a State house and are going to appreciate it and value it, and actually make sure that they can actually get their shot at the Kiwi Dream. That\u2019s what this is about. What this plan is about is making sure that neighbours of KO tenants, who are getting abused and threatened every single day\u2014that stops. It stops.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9e4554452d544f5b77ac1efd24f340c\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he care at all about the evidence that his Government\u2019s policies will increase homelessness, poverty, and inequality, or is he intent on running this Government on vibes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fb74b9db3834947a0b67ef7208c0978\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We are wanting to grow this economy so we can drive more prosperity in this economy and lift wages and incomes for everybody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203f7377496e542b1bb67e2e8dda44a7a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Prime Minister as to whether he\u2019s seen or heard of any policy, either here or anywhere in the world, where a tenant can have absolute contempt for the landlord, whether it be State or whether it be private, and yet be the beneficiary of the largess being suggested by that questioner?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcb4b7c4d2a94a01998d146923abafe2\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: The deal\u2019s very simple in New Zealand: you have rights to a State house when you need it, but you also have responsibilities to look after it like it\u2019s your own house. That\u2019s the deal. Because a taxpayer has woken up this morning\u2014a low and middle income worker that the Labour Party used to care about, who\u2019s actually paying their taxes, going to work, giving it to the Government\u2014to actually subsidise the living of some other fellow Kiwi. They need to respect their property; they need to respect and have responsibilities as well as rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252aae87e036b42b8b26d59c4c8d44bea\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister trying to say that our society needs people to treat each other well and take responsibility for themselves?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea210925ad4b4033b1dc788683e40a67\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: That is exactly right: our society should be built on the notion of we have rights but we also have responsibilities to each other and to\u00A0the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f007cc0cfc5f4d34a4d92cc05797d0ed\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00229374d56616d64e4e9e719e1884897ee3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229374d56616d64e4e9e719e1884897ee3\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Kia orana k\u0101toatoa, Mr Speaker. Does she stand by all her statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002226fe644abfcb4b56a57457e1274a5375\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226fe644abfcb4b56a57457e1274a5375\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context in which they were given. I particularly stand by my commitment to give tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders in the upcoming Budget in May.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260469228c28c454f9852db70c1d80b38\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by both her statements that she knows a\u00A0front-line service \u201Cwhen I see it\u201D and that there would be no cuts to front-line public\u00A0services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d2ba76f197c4f5795435cb344d8028f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d900e22f9d446c29388a23d08db2c7a\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she see front-line services when she looks at Customs staff, police officers, firefighters, free school lunches, and carers funded through Whaikaha, and, if so, why is her Government cutting the support for these front-line services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022975ace8235f94f709053837b4e65a31a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what a gift of a question! This is a Government that sees police as front line and is increasing the number of police. This is a Government that wants to continue the school lunch programme that the other Government didn\u2019t leave any budgeted funding for, so we\u2019re prioritising it in our upcoming Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295597774288b447fb8111e1aaf63c71e\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement that she is committed to delivering tax cuts without borrowing a cent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229a3d5fe889645c6b3f7f16b04bc6bec\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235b1b475bd4e4925b23ee5a17e21702c\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Prime Minister when he committed to no new taxes or increasing existing taxes; if so, how does she reconcile that with breaking her promise to axe the app tax, increasing petrol taxes by 22c a litre, and introducing an additional $50 tax on every New Zealanders\u2019 vehicle?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b10e2ceb28e44988b972b7767d85370a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll give the member a little instruction on coalition Government, because the Government\u2019s tax and fiscal plans reflect coalition negotiations which resulted in a number of amendments to the proposals that National and other parties campaigned on. And I\u2019d just reassure the member that we will be delivering tax relief to the hard-working Kiwis who missed out on her Government\u2019s watch and who haven\u2019t had a tax reduction since 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a28221299e974ea6a37c6058cd693723\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she introducing at least three new taxes she promised not to, cutting funding for wheelchair servicing, refusing to commit to funding school lunches as set out in her fiscal plan, and is she worried she will run out of election commitments to break?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cbc9acdb66e4d7ea146aad80b3fe5cc\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Look, the member can list a bunch of assertions that are completely incorrect but it doesn\u2019t reflect well on her. Because we are committed to funding the school lunch programme, we are committed to funding disability services, we are committed to sustaining good front-line services\u2014our Budget will reflect that. And here\u2019s the thing: when you\u2019re actually careful about eliminating waste in the back office, when you actually drive down the amount wasted on consultants and contractors and ridiculous processes and low-value programmes, that frees up more cash for front-line services that New Zealanders rely on. Our Government\u2019s doing it; their Government should have\u2014sorry about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0fa5734b7e2465a9af1bddc586035de\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u002235f8134553fc48e2be7ce018d5a31b58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235f8134553fc48e2be7ce018d5a31b58\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: What actions has he taken setting out his expectations for K\u0101inga Ora-Homes and Communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00226d047008e4fb4b3fbb79f366f9904ecf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d047008e4fb4b3fbb79f366f9904ecf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, well, yesterday, the Minister of Finance and I, as shareholding Minister, sent an interim letter of expectation to the board of K\u0101inga Ora - Homes and Communities (KO), instructing them to end their Sustaining Tenancies Framework, the policy of the last Government that enabled intimidation, abuse, and destruction in communities up and down this country. We have directed K\u0101inga Ora to make better use of tools in the Residential Tenancies Act 1986, including formal warning notices, relocations, and, in severe and persistent cases, terminating tenancies. KO records hundreds of serious incidents every month, including alleged illegal activity, harassment, intimidation, threatening behaviour, and verbal abuse. Despite this, only three people were evicted last year for bad behaviour. There is no incentive for tenants to improve their behaviour or to stop damaging their taxpayer-funded house unless they know there are consequences. We\u2019re bringing them back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fe6542b0cc44804b2982127a4ce6316\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: What prompted the Government to make this change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275db43116c994031a61a8d7a134e2bef\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019ve all seen the stories of the kind of misery that the last Government\u2019s policy enabled, which is why we have directed K\u0101inga Ora to stop it. This also fulfils a coalition commitment between the National and ACT parties. To name just one example, we saw the elderly Whang\u0101rei couple subject to death threats from the patched Black Power K\u0101inga Ora tenants next door. They allegedly threatened to slit the 82-year-old man\u2019s throat and watch him bleed out. To give you another example, we heard the heartbreaking story from a Te Awamutu homeowner who said a campaign of abuse from his Mongrel Mob K\u0101inga Ora neighbours cost him his marriage and left him with post-traumatic stress disorder. He told the New Zealand Herald of a night where a meth-crazed man linked to a K\u0101inga Ora property next door smashed up his house at 3\u00A0a.m. and tried to break in. These sorts of activities and behaviours need to stop, and under this Government, they will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022603cf803d51441358ba6d158c37021b9\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: What did this interim letter of expectations say about rent arrears?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9b12cc306bf4f8bb25183b5cd44b61e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Government has laid out its expectation that K\u0101inga Ora stops letting tenants go into massive rent arrears, as we\u2019ve seen happen over the last few years. To give you the exact numbers, in 2017, tenants\u2019 rent debt was $1 million; six years later, it has ballooned to $21 million. At the moment, there are more than 450\u00A0K\u0101inga Ora tenants who each owe more than $10,000. That is a staggering amount of debt to let a State house tenant get into. It\u2019s not fair on taxpayers. It\u2019s not fair on the tenants themselves. We have instructed K\u0101inga Ora to be much more proactive about preventing this from happening in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b28ffaf112c24ff698c474f4b7c29b2d\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: What else did the letter of expectation say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0cdf5f09d7c42c6b2df2ed6ea42360d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve made it clear that we expect K\u0101inga Ora to move families into vacant homes much more quickly than they are currently doing. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of homes vacant at any given time, and when the wait-list is over 25,000 people, that is not OK. We are also concerned about the loss of social licence for social housing in communities, often because communities feel that social housing developments happen without engagement from K\u0101inga Ora. We have therefore instructed them to do more to genuinely engage with local communities about their development plans and activities, above and beyond their existing legal requirements. We\u2019ve sent this interim letter to make sure that they are focused on the right things right now, and we intend as a Government to issue an updated letter of expectation later this year in response to the independent review led by Sir Bill English, which is reporting to Ministers very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002251efabb45b014f11b8c1477029ef9af9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00227ce4027628974eec9239b5cb74d73a52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ce4027628974eec9239b5cb74d73a52\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022c218e9af9fd04104ac05f423a89c1a51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c218e9af9fd04104ac05f423a89c1a51\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296402aa6e69e4be48351243dc2dde271\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement regarding the police pay offer: \u201CNo, we are not offering less than what Labour offered. That\u2019s not true at all.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf91b12eff5f42e2aa52257cb691ded3\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223410ed47290844d88a05af8ca31f9fc0\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the president of the New Zealand Police Association, Chris Cahill, \u201CIt\u2019s like a slap in the face. It\u2019s like saying how dare you turn us down, we\u2019re going to give you an even lower offer. They just misread the room. They\u2019ve misread it badly.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db6f2794aedc415cb8acf30f7f145812\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I respect the role of the president of the Police Association and he respects our role. The police and the Police Association are engaged in good-faith negotiations, and they carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228511f72d37e4dba81813399217e34ca\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is the real reason the police pay offer is not backdated and contains three significant clawbacks due to funding now going to tax cuts for landlords?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022348f15de8a6c4c3e84ebdba2e8fb1a5f\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224523184d2ef447feb8a99f2b49c3e0e0\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Which is correct: the coalition agreement that promises 500\u00A0new police in two years, or Christopher Luxon\u2019s statement that it\u2019s \u201Ca clear goal that we are heading towards\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee140fd157504a9e9cd0371eb2b7fe4c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019ve been very clear that the coalition agreement says that we will deliver 500 additional police officers in two years, and the Prime Minister is absolutely right in restating that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ea73ef8fb354fedb30c920a8e94d5d5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Minister whether he\u2019s actually dealing with pay for the police from last year, and why would that be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ca0c618ff204b90aae48d142c1b13fb\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the offer made by the previous Government was rejected by the police\u2014[Interruption]\u2014that\u2019s right, and they failed to really act on that quickly. Whereas the incoming Government\u2014we take it seriously, we\u2019ve acted quickly, and we negotiate in good faith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022479fac25c10547c69c92b882062e85e1\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that where the previous Government was very flinty, our Government has come in and agreed, on this issue, to provide more funding so that a more generous offer could be made to front-line police officers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4901adfbe2541ef9585f2044231bea1\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can confirm that and I can also confirm that probably under the previous Minister that the Labour Government\u2014against convention\u2014asked the police to provide within baseline the competency service increments payment, which is a very important payment that goes to police officers to\u00A0recognise their progression through the ranks, and that is something this Government has reinstated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b97fd038d07f44a4b281d239242b63ce\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, just to remind people that asking questions of a Minister about the responsibility of a previous Government\u2019s Minister is not within Standing Orders. It might be fun, but it\u2019s not helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229068705e4ecd43c99500335768e4b7d9\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you for that, and it is indeed consistent with other rulings that you\u2019ve made. It would be helpful to the order of the House if that direction was given before the Minister had the opportunity to answer, given that it was the question that was against Standing Orders, not the response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022399b9294849a41b6ad3f837fcb67bd9d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Thank you for your advice and I\u2019ll take it on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a646aaf1ec0b445994d0c6e4712e2a08\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3346fa121f2421a8b9f719aa54cf3a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3346fa121f2421a8b9f719aa54cf3a6\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his Government\u2019s policies and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022675d5dcef2604fe4b577b1218be34b55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022675d5dcef2604fe4b577b1218be34b55\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely\u2014in the context that they were made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022165b68218b5149019f46b965e87ff02d\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his Minister Responsible for RMA Reform\u2019s statement about the fast-track approvals bill that \u201Cpeople who are keen on having the projects inserted into the bill will be able to submit them to the expert panel\u201D, and, if so, will experts, local communities, and iwi M\u0101ori groups concerned by these proposed projects also be able to submit to the panel?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213dd56a89c3a48338b9a1d8ed4b658fe\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019ve got a very good process that involves Ministers, expert panels, and decisions by Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022095fcdd976cc4a70823fc53df6b363c1\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: What advice, if any, has he received on the constitutional appropriateness of adding a list of projects into the legislation after the select committee stage, and the ways in which this could undermine public input, scrutiny, and transparency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299f23277356c4f78be997bee801d072c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Completely appropriate, but what I\u2019d say to you: the purpose of fast-track consenting is it\u2019s taking too long to get anything done in this country. We have built an obstruction economy. We are here to get things done. That\u2019s why we\u2019re taking fast track, introduced by David Parker, beefed it up, put it on steroids, and are actually going to get some outcomes for some people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022029171567a514aaa84f7cdf8088eaf29\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that he will \u201Censure the fast-track consenting legislation upholds Te Tiriti\u201D, and, if so, can he guarantee that his Government will not fast track any mining consents that may impact Treaty settlements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff5cc6bb6eb54f4e87472f43b4f18631\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220db095ebe8c44274b59c24e5e5f7271a\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with former chief press secretary for the National Party Janet Wilson that \u201Cthe fast-track consenting bill is not an act of political alliance so much as pork barrelling at its finest, providing a new golden age for National and New Zealand First\u2019s backers\u201D, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d13727db6d0405b88ce631a16434a2f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely rubbish. I mean, the bottom line here is that we have an obstruction economy. We\u2019ve actually taken an awful long time to consent something, and it\u2019s costing a huge amount of money. We want to actually deliver on our climate goals, something that I think the Green Party would want to identify and align with us around, but you can\u2019t take eight years to consent a wind farm and two years to build it. Why don\u2019t we just take one year to consent and build renewable energy and then two years to build it, and get the benefit in three years, not 10 years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8eb4d3749c542c6a239963083fcedbf\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022639ad1a5135f4d27ac96878c22c1e807\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022639ad1a5135f4d27ac96878c22c1e807\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What steps has the Government taken to deliver better health outcomes for all New Zealanders? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb7880a23fb94dbcbd45a2505d6addc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb7880a23fb94dbcbd45a2505d6addc9\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E The Government recently announced that we are putting health targets at the forefront of our health policy. We are introducing five key targets that clearly spell out faster cancer treatment, improved immunisation for children, shorter stays in emergency departments, and shorter wait times for both first specialist assessments and planned care. We are an outcomes-driven Government, and these health targets show that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caafa7ea2006425da8a6d83c8aee3cc8\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: Why was it so important to shift health targets to the forefront of the Government\u2019s health policy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a117aa2e65e14334ba172ae32c7e3fac\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: This Government believes that health targets help direct attention and resources and sets a clear agenda for where our health system should be heading. That is why it is important to have targets at the forefront of decision making. Targets are also accountability and transparency at all levels of our health system, which is vitally important for ensuring the delivery of timely access to quality healthcare for all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022690c4e6c58444212ad648f76470d9206\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government ensure that the health targets are robust and will deliver better outcomes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a520cf721e0b49a3a77f15b324057139\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of the potential for gaming targets and will keep a close eye on this. There will be mechanisms to ensure that our health targets will remain robust. These include quality assurance processes to validate data, clinical engagement with discussions on emerging concerns, and the use of independent agencies such as the Health Quality and Safety Commission to support reviews, as needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a50791d6a314fa1b5b4cbbc54360e92\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government chosen immunisation for children as a key target? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022041434125e1b4be68040d7582ff8acca\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: In 2015, when targets were still at the forefront of Government policy, the immunisation rates for children stood at just over 93 percent. Today, that number is worrisome, at 83 percent. This is well behind countries like the UK, Australia, and Canada. We should be doing much better for our children, and this target is one step to enable that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d36ee5c604a54f46b6ca74c0e4818326\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022a39d8272ef2c44f399b20246c56ffe8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a39d8272ef2c44f399b20246c56ffe8f\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister for the Environment: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CFor now, the Government has agreed to suspend the obligation to impose SNAs under the NPS Indigenous Biodiversity, and we\u2019re sending a clear message that it would be unwise to bother\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b115064a40384aadb633ef886b954701\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b115064a40384aadb633ef886b954701\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Associate Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by my statement that the Government has agreed to suspend the obligations for councils to impose significant natural areas (SNAs) under the national policy statement (NPS), Indigenous Biodiversity. I also stand by my statement last week that there has been no change to statutory or regulatory obligations on councils. Those obligations continue to apply until they are amended. Cabinet has agreed to amend the NPS for Indigenous Biodiversity through a legislative vehicle, and suspend the NPS requirements for councils to adopt new SNAs into their plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a9660ec2a2047c286a8c67b6d68688a\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: What, if anything, does he consider the biodiversity collaborative group\u2014set up under the Hon Dr Nick Smith\u2014got wrong when they developed the framework of rules for councils to follow when working with farmers and iwi M\u0101ori landowners to identify significant natural areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d87975bfbda84917a2bd6ac50b7015b2\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m struggling to work out how that is connected. With the greatest respect to the member, who I know is a new member, I\u2019m struggling to understand how something to do with Dr Nick Smith in relation to\u00A0something that the member said relates to the actually quite specific primary question around something that the new Minister has said in relation to the NPS for\u00A0Indigenous Biodiversity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd41488989d849108b02c3a033d343ec\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. The primary did contain elements of the policy that the supplementary questions followed. Additionally, it is following comments from the answer to the primary question, so that\u2019s well within what has happened before, where people pick up on a statement that touches on a policy and then they ask supplementary questions in relationship to that policy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ec1237e16b1496c924274e90465d2c0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member is a very good advocate for that cause. I\u2019ll hear from the Hon James Shaw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243a002e45c574f1eb2a6adcface0c119\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. According to the point of order, the national policy statement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac7fdf0ae64743c68f8d0a740e129f48\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute\u2014just a minute. You\u2019re very hard to hear there. People might need to do something about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ee95ed103844dea8ad43f3226a3b7ad\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c537029d5df64d2497b0804bdff3761f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, now you\u2019re there. Welcome back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6ee91112e464064b2e460c2d73b84da\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. The National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity is derived from the work that was established by Dr Nick Smith in the biodiversity collaborative group for that purpose. I would have thought that the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform and the Minister responsible for that national policy statement would know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5cf783ac840423485b684e74bfc76cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I think the point is, though, it doesn\u2019t matter who was the Minister at the time, policy endures. So I think the question might be better worded. Do you want to have another crack at that question, Lan Pham?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c50ca4775d840389988184d1fa4c34f\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. What, if anything, does he consider the biodiversity collaborative group got wrong when they developed the framework of rules for councils to follow, when working with farmers and iwi M\u0101ori landowners to identify significant natural areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0e3c0e4a788432cbf040dec845bf0d9\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: The biodiversity collaborative stakeholder group did not actually reach a consensus in the end. There was a minority statement, by a number of groups, so there was no consensus on an outcome. The decision was not taking into account what the biodiversity stakeholder group\u2014actually, they didn\u2019t land on a decision. So that\u2019s the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d85a0a6267bd47dfaabbb3eac6209d30\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: What, according to his own ministry\u2019s reporting, is the proportion of native species in Aotearoa that are threatened or at risk of extinction? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfeee8c8adb54cbc9e0746267bc35df5\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: I do not have those numbers on hand at the moment. I can come back to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e76f930b25834dbebcea0d35d0c5b1c0\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it important to make this amendment to the national direction to remove the obligation on councils?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e89647af6154c198ca7267ef598a9f3\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Kill the birds faster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207813223c19c4f5bb8526a7ef428bf9c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Because the current use of SNAs are an unjustified intrusion on private property rights, and they are a barrier to the great work that landowners have already been doing on their farms. This change will give us time to review the operation of SNAs and formulate ways to work with landowners to recognise them for the work they\u2019re already doing and to incentivise them to do more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a930050584e044348dbdd909c73068ca\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister engage specifically with whenua M\u0101ori landowners in the suspension of SNAs, and, if you did, what was their feedback?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b8d1e16a24e4b1ba535887d5355419f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: No consultation has been undertaken in this. There will be consultation going into what will be the future use of SNAs. Basically, this was signalled in our coalition agreement in the 100-day plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f643d8ffd6824dff9aa3db97c10af5f6\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: What is the effect on people in rural New Zealand when they hear statements from urbanites such as \u201Cthey want to kill the birds faster\u201D, as the Green co-leader Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick just heckled while he was answering questions about a\u00A0serious\u00A0topic?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5cad1fd03c34ced983d9c673cfa025d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, we\u2019ll try the question a different way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254c6bf0b29e5492095da9cc59027de92\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: What is the effect on the psyche, morale, and mental health of those in rural New Zealand when it is assumed they want to remove intrusive regulations such as SNAs in order to \u201CKill the birds faster.\u201D, as I just heard from a member opposite?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a05f78aed9cc45df9db1b36b90a81b9c\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I don\u2019t believe the Associate Minister has any responsibility for the first part of that question, beyond the fact that it is, frankly, just ridiculous that it is even being asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcb6c0fe53f540468ff25b5065d1ad55\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that would really render question time quite useless if we took that view, because, in the end, every Minister\u2019s decision affects New Zealanders. If you couldn\u2019t ask a question related to that, then we\u2019d be in big trouble here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234a411601e8e4f4fb89ed5a0f594b8fb\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: I think rural New Zealand are sick and tired of being portrayed as people who don\u2019t care about their land. Our land is so important to us\u2014it is vital. Up and down this country, I see more and more farmers engaging in planting activities on their farms, creating wetlands, planting off streams, riparian planting\u2014this is all happening. This is happening under farmers\u2019 own steam at the moment. We intend to encourage that and incentivise them to do more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cbc988ecbf44993ac91daa94fe52c30\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: How, then, will this Government protect indigenous biodiversity and taonga species on private land once the requirement for councils to do so has been stripped away and undermined?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a437c54d7ae342079df7d9d9f9ad7f8d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: How we will encourage this is by encouraging the behaviour that has already been happening. As I have said to this House a number of times, in my time in farming, I have seen a complete mind shift from farmers, who are doing more and more every day on protecting biodiversity on their farm, encouraging more of it. That is how we are going to be working with farmers to do more of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a4391345c36468d8ec5754150fc064f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before we move to question 10, can I just make a broad plea to the House that when questions are being asked or lodged with the Clerk\u2019s office, the use of acronyms is absolutely minimised so that everybody reading the question can know fully what it\u2019s about. During the course of the answers there, we had those various acronyms used in their full names\u2014it would be good if they were also in the question. So if the House could take that on board, that would be useful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e4b4f5c5472466485627d6b5067d88d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u0022466f42479190483c8d9e27520e97781c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022466f42479190483c8d9e27520e97781c\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What recent results has he seen from Operation Emerald?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022545c54c9494c4999880440219f73b82b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022545c54c9494c4999880440219f73b82b\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Today, Police announced outstanding results, including in the member\u2019s electorate. In a recent five-day operation, Bay of Plenty police have delivered a massive blow in stopping a major source of funding for organised crime groups. The execution of 39 search warrants saw 29 firearms seized and 25 arrests made. Additionally, police seized more than 80 grams of methamphetamine, over $7,000 in cash, two stolen vehicles, and a stolen motorbike. During the operation, 11,372 cannabis plants were destroyed. Operation Emerald targets the back pockets of gangs and organised crime by targeting the large-scale commercial cultivation of cannabis, and I\u2019m proud of the work that police have done around the country to keep their communities safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c050580cc2ee4f598842dcdc0ef05cfd\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: How much money did Operation Emerald prevent going into the hands of gangs last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c046ca49fea241c49dfd258520ebbae2\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Police destroyed over 35,000 cannabis plants and prevented $128 million going into the pockets of gangs through Operation Emerald. Based on the drug harm index, the estimated social harm prevented by Operation Emerald last year was $127 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e280a32af51046a1b75ba4958b62f775\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the characterisations of Operation Emerald as \u201Cineffective\u201D and \u201Cpolice playing tin soldiers in the sky\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2d1406a48e04a2db66b4456ad9407e8\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Comments like that show a lack of respect or understanding for the outstanding job our police officers do, in often difficult situations and circumstances, keeping our community safe and slowing down and disrupting the flow of harmful drugs into our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb4d85f0888d48e6a98c502cba4de769\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister\u2019s message to criminals taking part in large-scale cultivation of cannabis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f254cc03d5b4045a9b54f3af3a915f2\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: My message is quite simply this: if you choose to cultivate a drug that remains illegal and if you use it to fund your criminal lifestyle and perpetuate misery in our communities, you can expect police to hold you to account and to seize illegal firearms, drugs, and ill-gotten gains. I\u2019m proud of the police and the work that they do in targeting organised crime, and I back Operation Emerald 100 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002262fbfa555b9845f5882272c7b4f1ff4b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Disability Issues\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u00227426efb3191b43168b26c0132368abc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227426efb3191b43168b26c0132368abc5\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Disability Issues: Does she stand by her statement regarding changes to purchasing rules and equipment and modification services, \u201CThese changes are happening from 18 March and are intended to be temporary changes until later this year\u201D; if so, will she commit to restoring flexibility of funding as was available to the disability communities prior to 18\u00A0March 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u002257a90b2ceb9e4768a720e51b5e29c442\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257a90b2ceb9e4768a720e51b5e29c442\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for Disability Issues):\u003C/span\u003E These changes are happening from 18 March 2024 and are in place while we complete work on the long-term settings for the use of flexible funding. Whaikaha is working to manage a forecast overspend in the disability support system in this financial year. It is important to take a balanced and fair approach to prioritising disability support funding within the budget available. Whaikaha is prioritising across the system and making changes from 18 March 2024; changes to the purchasing rules which are intended to provide clarity about what supports can be purchased using disability funding, and to prioritise spending towards supports accessed by disabled people. Equipment and modification services will be prioritised to provide support to those disabled people with the highest needs first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfa0848083b14ef4a35c6cf63f49931a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just say to members on the left, I do need to hear the answers to these\u00A0questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b2ff58e62594379b76c752c8c78ae55\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Why was there no consultation with those who would be most impacted by these changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f90576cd34a9462883a018203cf5ec5a\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, the increase in the use of these services has caused a funding blowout, and it is somewhat disingenuous for the member of that party, who put the policies in place that set up the situation that Whaikaha is now facing in terms of flexibility of purchasing and ring-fencing the funding, taking it out of a demand-funding situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f47aaa0562b44e8a43fd4eca2ac127a\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister say to a mother who contacted me today to say that \u201Cflexible use of respite funding has been absolutely essential for the wellbeing of our wh\u0101nau\u201D, and she goes on to say that \u201Cwe cannot use\u00A0a\u00A0professional support person, so then you have effectively taken our respite funding away\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bf1a2996cac41bca880f29d25b6e0f3\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: I say, as I said in my initial answer, that we need to take time to have a look at the flexible funding and how we are going to manage it going forward. But the manner in which it was put in place, without criteria and without support there for how it can be used, has seen more than doubling of the use of that fund and therefore the pressure that Whaikaha are now under.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022369421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280442800d78347018c55f637267f5ad1\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: How do you respond to Carlos Cordero, who is concerned that the new rules restrict funding for wh\u0101nau carers and ignores their experience as wh\u0101nau carers who actually are on the ground doing the mahi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226694e89d919a441f9636fddc742f0531\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: This has been a difficult time for Whaikaha trying to deal with the policy settings that the previous Government put in place of ring-fencing the funding but still allowing major flexibility for purchasing using that funding. That funding is for disabled people, and the priority has to be for use of that funding for those with a disability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc32e0fc94794d739a119fadd33e0426\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with Maureen Pugh, who said, and I quote, \u201CIf you\u2019re talking about wasted expenditure then that\u2019s very much where we\u2019ll go. But reducing funding and support for those in need, we are actually looking to increase support.\u201D, and will she commit to increasing support in Budget 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228354262a1df44e659d9e3883f4092830\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: The fund for the equipment and modification of services has been increased by 10 percent. So the misleading statements from the Opposition about funding cuts is completely incorrect. The issue is the policy settings that were put in place by the previous Government that has seen a blowout in the funds available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285041261ff9f4711888576b4efe40473\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister say to Huana Hickey, a t\u0101ngata hau\u0101 advocate, who feels these changes attack the very heart of the disabled\u2019s needs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ade007c826ca4dedae7522f9c24b8bbd\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: It is a difficult time for Whaikaha trying to prioritise the funding. There is not an open cheque book, and therefore they do have to make priorities. So the priority has been that the funding must be spent on the person with the disability, when, in the past, the previous Government allowed such flexibility for carers to be able to spend on such things for themselves as pedicures, as massages, as overseas travel. So when the funding is under constraint, then the priority must be for the disabled person to receive the funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281a4850d514f464c876be29d67821b6d\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad1fbda71aab43d8b2af3c8159fc74a6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you\u2019ve used them all up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a11ae69cbb64c8f8bf4f7ccfa74357f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Health (Pharmac)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae3873759df04d188e6df4c661fd2c7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae3873759df04d188e6df4c661fd2c7c\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health (Pharmac): What recent announcements has he made about improving New Zealanders\u2019 access to medicines?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022050d8e85c7144824b8899a710932b73b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022050d8e85c7144824b8899a710932b73b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Health (Pharmac)):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to the member for his question. Pharmac is changing its processes so that it can assess a funding application at the same time Medsafe is assessing an application for regulatory approval of the same product. This means that medicines will be able to be considered sooner for funding in New Zealand. Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis\u2019 lives, and this Government is speeding up the process so that more people have access to the medicines they need, quicker and sooner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e18bf237fc74f6ab2c6bd393f400861\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: How will the parallel assessment process that the Minister has outlined improve access to medicines?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bb9c722a426488988183eeb01cce96a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, currently, Pharmac waits until Medsafe has completed its assessment before it begins a funding assessment, unless the treatment is in relation to cancer. Doing both the regulatory assessment to see if it\u2019s safe at Medsafe and the funding assessment to see if it is a good use of taxpayer funds at Pharmac at the same time is common sense. It\u2019s a change that costs nothing but it will help Kiwis in need by shaving up to nine months off the approval process. It will also bring us into line with countries such as Australia and Canada, which do it and have been doing it exactly the way that we now will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298313a6a661c400caf33d148a95dc513\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen any reports of any risks to access to medicines for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220daeafd82bcd4e7b8087e51489b45773\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. In fact, I have been looking at Budget documents that show that Pharmac\u2019s funding over the next three years was left by the previous Government as reducing by several hundred million dollars each year for the next four years. In total, to maintain the level of pharmaceutical funding that New Zealanders are used to, the Government would have to find nearly $2 billion of extra funding over four years, and that is something that this Government is now working very hard to do in challenging economic conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1f00fab67ca454ca3e1844467377fd9\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: What steps is he taking to ensure even more access to medicines for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022766135efda79466eb6326ccf573b2081\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The coalition Government is based in part on an ACT-National coalition agreement which contains a commitment to updating the rules for Medsafe to speed up the processing of new medicines for regulatory approval to within 30 days if two recognised overseas regulators have already approved it. It is to design and publish a medicines strategy and to update Pharmac\u2019s decision-making model to ensure that it appropriately accounts for patient voice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227832ad5b515143bfaa3569d2b37a0f0a\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226fca1903c6e1473dac6bf41bf7eea91f\u0022\u003EDisability Funding\u2014Purchasing Rules\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002294f76c42b3304ede984b7989599ffee3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294f76c42b3304ede984b7989599ffee3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received a letter from the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 an announcement about purchasing rules for disability funding. This is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. However, I\u2019ve listened to the answers to questions asked today and considered the matter because I have an interest in it, but I am not convinced that the time of the House should be set aside today to debate the matter. The annual review debate would be an appropriate vehicle to debate this matter since it covers the performance and current operations of departments. The Leader of the House has indicated that that debate will start in April and has called for parties to nominate which Ministers will appear before the committee of the whole House during the debate. The application is therefore declined. I call on order of the day\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022028e722771f44e0d9ed187794a11bf6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022028e722771f44e0d9ed187794a11bf6c\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr\u00A0Speaker. We accept that. The concern that I have, however, is that there is still no requirement for the Government to accept the proposals from the Opposition on the topics and portfolios which will be debated during the annual review debate, so this House can\u2019t be assured that the opportunity to debate this will be given during the annual review debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2c6758258df456f8745cbf6a736f8fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2c6758258df456f8745cbf6a736f8fb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s true. But the member knows also that the Business Committee will be involved in that process, and I would certainly be an advocate for the Opposition having the opportunities that they seek. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da15bb6acfc64e0f9247c0445aa31a39\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2022/23 Confirmation and Validation) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1f81400addd44a8855813c0d190d71e\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7202da19c214c1cbe6cc85614e3d217\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7202da19c214c1cbe6cc85614e3d217\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Appropriation (2022/23 Confirmation and Validation) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8ebc28d72704966b34161cbc80e54d1\u0022\u003ETaxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b27432e406c4e00b1bd099bff6f5303\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022798fb4882da04ec39f8b39ccef41a324\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022798fb4882da04ec39f8b39ccef41a324\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223df496251375457ba550f6da4f0476c9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament\u2019s website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266a9781f12924fddbc76683beafdf29a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to set the annual rates for income tax for the 2023-24 tax year. The bill also makes proposals to improve the current settings for a broad based - low rate framework. Public consultation is an important part of the tax development process and it is also equally important to the parliamentary process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAs reported back from the Finance and Expenditure Committee, the bill contains a range of adjustments as a result of public feedback. These adjustments have strengthened the bill, and I wish to acknowledge the members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee across the House for their input into this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI would like to briefly touch on the more significant changes that have been made to the bill since its introduction. The centrepiece of the bill is a measure aimed at reducing the benefit to multinational corporations of profit shifting. Under the existing setting, some countries have attempted to attract economic activity by offering multinationals low effective income tax rates. This is particularly problematic when the income is from cross-border capital investment or the use of intellectual property. It has helped contribute to base erosion and profit shifting, where a multinational can achieve low or even no taxation by shifting their profits to low-tax jurisdictions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ETo tackle profit shifting, the OECD has led the development of a global minimum tax, the GloBE rules, which ensures that large multinationals at least pay 15 percent tax on their mobile income where it is earned. Adoption of the GloBE rules by a critical mass of countries will help reduce the profit-shifting pressures on countries like New Zealand with higher corporate tax rates without preventing the use of tax incentives to attract real investment. Now that it is clear that a critical mass of countries will be adopting these GloBE tax rules, we are proposing in this bill to enact dates for its imposition by the New Zealand Government. On 1 January 2025, the income inclusion rule and under-taxed profits rule will be enacted, and on 1 January 2026, the domestic income inclusion rule will be enacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe GloBE rules are extremely complex. Rather than enacting them directly into our legislation, we are proposing law that will make sure that these rules are modelled through and developed in effect with the OECD countries along with New Zealand. This is the best approach to ensure that our rules are internationally consistent while keeping the Government\u2019s implementation and administration costs low. Crucially, future Governments remain free to disapply any future updates to the OCED\u2019s commentary or guidance on the GloBE rules which affect their application, so there\u2019s no loss of sovereignty involved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAnother significant measure in the bill is the trustee tax rate proposal. Following consultation and public submissions, we have made a number of adjustments to this proposal. While most trusts will be unaffected by the proposals in the bill, there did remain a risk of over-taxation of trusts with lower-rate beneficiaries and settlors. That is a crucial point because over-taxation can\u2019t be determined by looking at the income earned by the trust, but only by reference to the income of settlors and the beneficiaries in the trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EInland Revenue estimates that there are at least 400,000 trusts. In 2022, approximately 76,000 trusts paid taxes at the trustee tax rate. To help mitigate the risk of over-taxation, we are proposing a $10,000 trustee income de minimis. This will mean that a further 27,000 trusts will not be affected by the 39c tax rate. Based on this, only 12 percent of all trusts would be affected by the 39c tax rate. This reduces the risk of over-taxation while also addressing the vast majority of the under-taxation of trustee income. Trusts in estates with up to $10,000 in trustee income in an income year would continue to be subject to the 33 percent tax rate. Trusts with over $10,000 in trustee income in an income year would be subject to the 39c tax rate on all income. At the committee\u2019s recommendation, disabled beneficiary trusts would be taxed at 33 percent instead of a 39 percent personal tax rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EWe are also simplifying and expanding the proposals relating to estates. An estate would continue to be taxed at 33c in the dollar for the year of death, plus a further three years. We\u2019re also making sure that energy consumer trusts and legacy superannuation funds are excluded from the 39c tax rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe committee also made a number of recommendations to improve the fairness, certainty, and consistency of tax treatment. For instance, to improve the current proposal on the tax treatment of backdated lump-sum payments from ACC and Ministry of Social Development, the committee recommended including backdated lump-sum payments for attendant care, and related to the Cyclone Gabrielle in North Island flooding event relief measures, the committee made a number of recommendations, including adding the August 2022 Nelson flood buy-out to the list of events covered, by turning off the brightline and other timing tests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe committee was also concerned at the potential for overreach in the proposed charities and the deregistration tax integrity measures. They therefore recommended providing relief when assets are transferred to other New Zealand tax resident exempt entities and deferring the application date. Along with these, there are a number of other smaller policy matters which have been suggested by policy officials in response to issues brought to them by third parties. This is good news. It shows that the Inland Revenue is working in collaboration with the private sector and with the wider Public Service in order to improve efficiency. An example is the new proposal relating to the Ministry of Disabled People.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EDistrict health boards and the Ministry of Health had historically made direct funding for disability support payments to their clients. The Income Tax Act provides an income tax exemption for these payments. However, due to an oversight, the exemption was not correctly updated to reflect the fact that the newly established ministry was now responsible for administering some of the direct funding disability support payments. This means that those support payments won\u2019t technically meet the requirement for the exemption. The remedial amendment makes these payments exempt and has retrospective application to July 2022, as these payments were always intended to be exempt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ESimilarly, Health New Zealand has taken over contact tracing from the Ministry of Health. Inland Revenue shares information with the Ministry of Health to help make more efficient processes and procedures; however, that arrangement cannot continue for the purpose of the legislation enabling such sharing of information for Health New Zealand as it was not referred to as a Government agency. For the purposes of information sharing, the bill therefore proposes adding Health New Zealand to the definition of a Government agency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAnother adjustment to the bill is a proposal to provide more certainty to the early payment discount offered by the IRD. This intends to encourage businesses to pay their taxes in the first year. Inland Revenue applies interest to unpaid tax bills, which is known as the use of money interest. That interest charged depends on the economic conditions of the entity. The application rate for this discount has moved more often than was envisaged in recent times, and due to economic conditions, this has created uncertainty for taxpayers and has undermined the ability of an early payment discount to incentivise voluntary tax payment by businesses in their first year. To maintain this incentive, the bill proposes tidying up and ensuring the early payment discount rate for the use of money interest at 31\u00A0March of the preceding income year. This would be applied to the 2024-25 and later income years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EAs you can see, this is a comprehensive, complex, and detailed tax bill. There have been significant changes and modifications as a result of the Finance and Expenditure Committee working across party lines in order to listen to feedback from a large number of people making consultation and inputs into this bill. It is important to note that many of these changes that were made by submitters to the select committee have been very carefully and diligently considered by the select committee and, as a result, have been reflected in the bill which we are tabling in this House today. That is an appropriate use of parliamentary time. That is an appropriate mechanism, and it is a good example of how legislation can and should be improved by a select committee process, and, again, I acknowledge those members of that committee for their contribution. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00225d966862865d46b68a3f2a595c846b58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d966862865d46b68a3f2a595c846b58\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00224dc56d49f388447ca0e5cc31ab154c3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dc56d49f388447ca0e5cc31ab154c3d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The first part of what I would like to say today is that I would like to draw the House\u2019s attention to page 14 of the report back from the Finance and Expenditure Committee and a particular paragraph in there, in which the committee says\u2014and I want to read this into the record\u2014\u201CWe wish to register our sincere thanks to Therese Turner for her work as the independent specialist adviser on tax bills over the last 25 years. Her advice has been invaluable to members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee and undoubtedly improved parliamentary scrutiny of tax legislation. We wish her all the best.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ETherese Turner was the independent adviser to the committee for a long, long time. In fact, when I started work at Inland Revenue back in 2004, in the policy advice division then, Therese Turner was then the specialist adviser whom we consulted as tax officials, whom the select committee worked with, and who has provided extraordinary advice to the committee over a very, very long time. Tax can be complicated. Therese Turner looked at it, reviewed it, explained it to committee members, and gave us that independent advice\u2014independent from officials, independent from Treasury, independent from political processes\u2014as to whether or not the tax legislation in front of us was workable. The Finance and Expenditure Committee, over 25 years, owes a great deal to Therese Turner, as does this House, and so I\u2019m very glad to have that recorded in the select committee report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, and other members of the House, you will notice as you read this report\u2014as I\u2019m sure you all do\u2014that it was unanimously agreed to by the Finance and Expenditure Committee. That is unsurprising. This bill started in the previous Parliament, under the previous Ministers of Revenue, and then continued in the current Parliament, so these are tax measures that were introduced during the last Parliament. It is unsurprising that members on this side of the House agree to these tax measures. There has, however, since then been an Amendment Paper introduced, which will be introduced at the committee of the whole House stage. Obviously, we will want to debate that Amendment Paper, but the bill as it stands at the moment is one which all members in this House agree to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHowever, there are some matters that I would like to address a little. I first want to point out that it is the annual rates bill. As a constitutional requirement, the Government is required to ensure that the tax rates are set by legislation every year, by 31 March of the year for which the tax rates apply. This bill does that job, and it is the Government\u2019s responsibility to ensure that it is passed through all its stages by 31 March, and so members will find that the tax rates are set in, I think, clause 3 of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EBut I do want to take issue with something that the Minister of Revenue has said in his speech. He said that setting the tax rates confirmed\u2014I think he said that it confirmed it was part of the commitment we have to a broad based - low rate tax system. As I\u2019ve said many times before, we do not have a broad based - low rate tax system. There is a significant gap in our tax system where capital income is not treated as income for income tax purposes. Now, to a large extent the brightline test addresses that. However, coming up in the amendment bill, the Government is proposing to remove the brightline test, or to reduce it down to two years. It is moving further away from a broad based - low rate system, and we need to remember that we might have a low-rate system, but we do not have a broad-based tax system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHowever, aside from that, there is a great deal in this bill which we do agree with, and which I think it is important for people to understand. There are a couple of matters I would like to talk through and, if I have time, a third. But I\u2019m sorry, Mr Speaker, when I start talking about tax, I sometimes get a little carried away and concentrate a little too\u00A0much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fae669b9bd7744e28c7180a49a1e9b26\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, five minutes in to get to the bill wasn\u2019t bad, actually, Ms Russell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f860993b4da4d3784dce7be2035939b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve been speaking to the bill all along, Mr Speaker. I want to talk about the changes to the trustee tax rates. Now, the bill as introduced proposed increasing the trustee tax rate to 39 percent to align it with the top personal tax rate. However, we received a number of submissions\u2014quite a significant number of submissions\u2014from accounting firms, from lawyers, from practitioners, and from people affected by this, saying that that might be inappropriate for a large number of trusts in this country. It might be appropriate to have trusts which earn a large amount of income to have that 39 percent tax rate aligned with the top income tax rate, but a great many trusts in this country do not earn a lot of income, and that might have been overreach, going for the 39 percent rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo the committee and officials and submitters all worked together to work out what would be an appropriate threshold if we had two trust tax rates\u2014one for tax below a certain threshold; one tax rate for trusts above that threshold\u2014and it turns out that there\u2019s an appropriate flex point. It\u2019s at about $10,000 or so. Now, $10,000 is a nice, round figure, so we\u2019ve worked with that. What it means is that in the bill, as it has come back from the committee, if a trust earns over $10,000 in trustee income, then that income will be taxed at 39 percent\u2014all of it, from the first dollar right up through. If a trust earns below $10,000, then the trustee income will be taxed at 33 percent, and that provides small trusts with a bit of relief from that top tax rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHowever, that figure was chosen quite carefully, because at that $10,000 point, the advantage of having a 33 percent tax rate over a 39 percent tax rate is just $600, right? So\u00A0a person could be better off by $600 if they kept the income below $10,000, or if you set up a number of trusts, you could maybe spread all the income across a number of trusts to try to get around that top tax rate. So, instead of having one trust with $100,000 of income taxed at 39 percent, you could maybe have 10 trusts with $10,000 of income each, taxed at 33 percent. But the compliance costs of running a trust, of getting it set up, and of doing all the processing for it is probably more than the $600 is worth. It\u2019s a good flex point to choose, both in terms of the number of trusts which actually fall below that threshold but also in terms of working out where the point is where compliance costs outweigh the benefit of a particular tax gain, so we all supported that threshold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI think the committee showed really good sense too with the changes it made with respect to deceased estates, where, again, taxing them all at 39 percent was inappropriate. Most deceased estates don\u2019t have that kind of income sitting in them, but, more to the point, it can take a bit of time to wind up a deceased estate. When we talked to practitioners, we found that they were telling us that, actually, most deceased estates can get wound up within 18 months to two years, and some may take a little bit longer, so what we have put in place is three years. There\u2019s a three-year grace period to get those deceased estates wound up; so that\u2019s three years past the income year in which the trust begins. So that\u2019s quite a considerable period of flexibility, and it\u2019s a very sensible change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI just wanted to speak very briefly to the taxation of backdated lump-sum payments. This is where ACC lump-sum payments are backdated. If a person gets a lump-sum piece of income in one year by chance\u2014so, for example, if they got, say, $200,000 of backdated income\u2014then some of that would be taxed at the top tax rate of 39 percent because it was all received in a lump. So what we\u2019ve said is that in actual fact, what should happen is that for that sum of money, the appropriate tax rate should be determined by looking at the average tax rate over the previous four years and applying that rate. So that seems to be a fair thing to do, and I think having that spread over four years is quite reasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI suppose we could try to go back many years to when the injury was first incurred for ACC purposes, but, in actual fact, in some cases, there might have been higher tax rates in force at the time. I think that spreading it back over the four previous years strikes a reasonable balance between getting it right for the individual taxpayer and making it comparatively easy to calculate, and I think that, in the large majority of cases, it means that the actual amount that is taxed is about right. It won\u2019t be perfect, but it will be pretty good, and so, for that reason, we support that change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s a lot to talk about in this bill. I could take another call, perhaps, or maybe not. There is plenty for people to talk about and it is a good bill, and, at this second reading, I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022cff1f4ce64704205ac71d77a76c92768\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cff1f4ce64704205ac71d77a76c92768\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I hope I\u2019m not betraying the confidence of my mates across these seats, but Rawiri Waititi, the co-leader of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, just dared me to make this exciting\u2014so,\u00A0Mr Speaker, if you will indulge me. Unfortunately for Mr Waititi, the fact of the matter is that the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill as recommended back from the Finance and Expenditure Committee, as the Hon\u00A0Dr\u00A0Deborah Russell just outlined very articulately and very clearly, was unanimously supported. I think the fireworks are probably going to fly at the committee of the whole House stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo let me just unpack some of that kind of technical basis that I\u2019m talking about here, for those who are following along at home. What the bill does, the Minister of Revenue just outlined pretty clearly, and it was, with that unanimous support, to raise the trustee tax rate to 39 percent to align with the top income tax rate. That, of course, is to stop people from moving their money around in such a way that they avoid paying that top tax rate of 39\u00A0percent, some evidence of which we saw borne out in some of the reporting from IRD to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. There also is the establishment in law requiring multinationals headquartered in Aotearoa to pay a top-up tax to the IRD if their effective tax rate is lower than 15 percent. And this is, of course, part of an international coordinated push by the OECD to implement a set of rules to stop a race to the bottom when it comes to corporate taxation. Also, those changes with regard to ACC and Ministry of Social Development payments and lump sums, requiring the Government to match the 3 percent contributions to KiwiSaver made by those on paid parental leave, and relief from recognising insurance income for businesses impacted by flooding and cyclones recently\u2014those are the relatively uncontroversial pieces of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EHowever, for those following along at home, they may have seen that this Government has recently stated that they will be putting forward a number of new policies, as tabled by the Minister and foreshadowed by the Hon Dr Deborah Russell, which we will be debating at the committee of the whole House stage. So I just want to make it really clear to those who are following along at home that the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand currently supports the bill at the second reading because it is the version of the bill that does those things which I have just outlined. It is not the version of the bill which will come into effect after the Government uses its three-headed taniwha majority to push through the changes for repealing back to the two-year brightline test and those interest deductibility changes, as well as removing depreciation deductions. So, relatively uncontroversially, again, the Greens support this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo if I can just offer some broader reflections, particularly on that select committee process. I also wanted to join with the Hon Dr Deborah Russell in offering our appreciation to Therese Turner, who, as the Hon Dr Deborah Russell outlined, offered many, many years of service, expertise, and independent advice to subsequent Finance and Expenditure Committees in this Parliament and those beforehand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aeb3ef75d9d64abbb6f421449e5698a3\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: When\u2019s the exiting part?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7acfaf0df8b483f805e11970951daef\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: So to the exciting parts, as the members of the Government are asking me for. Well, the exciting part is\u2014or, rather, the rather depressing part is\u2014that we know, based on IRD\u2019s other reporting from, for example, last year, with subsidiary papers from Treasury, that we have a tax system in this country that sees the top 311 families pay an effective tax rate less than half of that of the average New\u00A0Zealander. And, unfortunately, this bill does nothing to fix that unfairness\u2014that fundamental unfairness\u2014in the way that our tax system operates. And, in fact, even worse than that, prior to Christmas, under urgency, this Government introduced legislation which repealed requirements for the IRD to report against a set of tax principles, basically to showcase to New Zealanders whether the tax system is working efficiently and fairly in such a way that all of us could expect\u2014i.e., to inform the public debate on tax with evidence. Spooky stuff\u2014spooky stuff\u2014as far as the tax debate here in Aotearoa New Zealand is concerned!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EIf I can allude to other hearings that we\u2019ve had at the Finance and Expenditure Committee, particularly related to the subject of tax, we recently had Treasury officials in, who I questioned about the productivity implications of our tax system, and they made it abundantly clear that were we to introduce the capital gains tax, we would not only generate the revenue necessary to invest in the infrastructure that all New Zealanders deserve but also that we would have a fundamentally more productive economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, finishing on that point, the Green Party supports the bill in its current version, but the far more deeply unequal and, dare we say, rather undemocratic process to introduce substantive and material changes at the committee of the whole House stage, whereby we are not going to be able to have that select committee process, such as the Government intends to do by virtue of what they themselves have tabled in the House today, is something that we will be opposing further down the track. So just to make that abundantly clear to all who may be following along at home\u2014I apologise for not being able to make all this too exciting, but I guarantee you the fireworks will be coming, because we will not be letting this Government get away with increasing inequality, which, they know full well and their advice bears out, will occur as a result of them progressing this policy agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u002273a045952d5d47349814730d7d84c630\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273a045952d5d47349814730d7d84c630\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I rise to speak in support of the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill, which is\u2014yes, it\u2019s not very exciting, but I did think that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell did do a good job of trying to make it exciting. I just want to join with her and Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick in just acknowledging Therese Turner. Obviously, I\u2019m a first-term member of both this House and of the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c44ae18fd0904450b0b8d6ba63090653\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Great committee!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c306e990df054f959eece3594476e11d\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, it is a great committee\u2014and I do want to thank Ms Turner for her contribution. Obviously, 25 years of providing advice to the select committee is quite an achievement, and she again delivered when giving advice to the select committee on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EThis was, I think, a process where we actually did improve the bill at the select committee. A lot of that has been touched on, but I just do want to mention that we actually did listen to submitters and some of the, you know\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa6a511e3542462eb4749d78b7784177\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: De minimis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252eebf032cf94fb7ae737f7c989d1ad6\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014the problems that were raised and the issues they saw as problematic, and we actually did address them. And, yes, the de minimis tax threshold for trustees rates is one such issue, where we ensured that some common sense was applied so that people wouldn\u2019t actually be making decisions regarding their trusts which could be detrimental but also ensuring that they were being taxed at the correct rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EAnother one was the deceased estates. Again, we had a lot of submissions talking about how one year would be too short a period to make sure that deceased estates could actually be wound up. Again, we reflected on that, we took advice, and we arrived at the three-year position\u2014which, again, I think is a really sensible one to make sure that in this important area the affairs of a deceased estate can be properly wound up, but done so in a timely manner but one which also doesn\u2019t disadvantage those taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI think\u2014again, it\u2019s already been touched on\u2014the lump-sum payments and ACC and making sure, again, we delivered some fairness to taxpayers when they receive a lump-sum payment. Again, this can often be where it takes a number of years for a complex ACC case to be worked out and actually for someone to receive their lump-sum payment and, again, making sure that they weren\u2019t disadvantaged by the time taken. I think, again, we arrived at a really pragmatic and sensible solution to that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EFor me, it was obviously interesting watching all parties represented on the select committee actually working together\u2014and, again, there were some very experienced members on the select committee, and I think it was really useful to have their insights and knowledge as we worked through the issues and tried to find pragmatic solutions. So I really want to say thanks to my fellow select committee members. I think there will be a lot more discussion and, obviously, further readings on this bill, but I want to commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u0022280b1bc7f2ad425cb8d07fac5ecb8a2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022280b1bc7f2ad425cb8d07fac5ecb8a2b\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First and the challenge to make this exciting. I will do my best. As they say, to become good at speaking in the House, one needs to keep speaking in the House, so I will do that. I apologise if there is repetition, and I will completely understand if there are more cellphones being lifted up, but it is a very good bill to speak on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s called the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. That was a bit of a mouthful. Now, this omnibus bill introduces amendments to a number of Acts, with the addition of proposing amendments to the Income Tax Act 2004. One of the purposes of this bill is to set the annual rates of income tax for this 2023-24 financial tax year. Another purpose of this bill is to improve the current settings within a broad based - low rate framework for income tax. Also, this bill aims at improving settings for tax administration, KiwiSaver, and child support rules administered by the Inland Revenue Department. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow, to speak on some of the items of the bill which I know have been spoken on,\u00A0but I will once again speak about the increase of the tax rate from 33 percent to 39\u00A0percent: when originally drafted, this bill would have required many lower-income trusts to pay this top rate of 39 percent, or 39c in the dollar, but, thankfully, the Finance and Expenditure Committee has accepted the Government\u2019s advice that a $10,000 trustee income de\u2014my Latin\u2019s not that good\u2014minimis be introduced. So that has been done, and this is excellent as it will stop people trying to set up multiple trusts and avoid taxation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EThe other part that I will speak about is the disabled beneficiary trust. To mitigate over-taxation, this bill proposes\u2014maybe I\u2019m not going to repeat myself too much there, because otherwise I will see a few more cellphones coming up, but, in short, it is recommended that a 33 percent flat tax rate is applied to beneficiary trusts as well. Also, deceased estates\u2014trustee income of estates would continue to be taxed at 33 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EThere are many other areas that I could speak on. I will touch on the energy consumer trusts. Submissions were received that trusts with beneficiaries representing a wide range of the public, such as trusts that own electricity distribution companies, should be excluded from the 39 percent trustee tax rate due to the risk of over-taxation. So, again, it is agreed that a 33 percent rate should remain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EAlso, legacy superannuation funds\u2014they will be excluded from the 39 percent trustee tax rate. They will be subject to the same tax treatment as widely held superannuation funds, currently at 28 percent. Now, I won\u2019t touch on a couple of items that I feel might change the mood of the House. Just, in short, New Zealand First will happily recommend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u0022575852b5b9444d3d9c5685554fd2c5ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022575852b5b9444d3d9c5685554fd2c5ef\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker, otir\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei r\u0101 i runga i te \u0101huatanga o t\u0113nei pire\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E[Kia ora, Mr Speaker, and everyone else present here today. Greetings to us on this day, and in regards to this bill\u2014]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not going to speak too long on this particular bill, but I do find it exciting to listen to everybody\u2019s k\u014Drero. I think the most exciting part is to acknowledge Therese Turner for the mahi that she\u2019s done over the few years\u201425 years, in actual fact\u2014advising this particular Finance and Expenditure Committee. You know, it\u2019s people like that that make this\u2014it must\u2019ve been an exciting job for her to be here 25 years and to advise this particular committee. I\u2019m new to the committee, so I was new to the people and the people who are part of the committee, but I just want to support all the k\u014Drero and acknowledge her mahi at this particular time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EIn particular, increasing the trustee tax rate from 33 to 39 percent for trustee income over $10,000 is a small part of actually what Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2019s tax policy was to address in terms of the injustices within our tax system. The tax system has only been there to service the wealthy and actually put a pinch on the working class and the poorer wh\u0101nau. What this tax bill actually does\u2014its current form we support, and so we supported it to the second reading, we supported it to select committee, and I think that was unanimous across the House. We are going to support this to there, but the amendments on the other hand we take issue with. While the average person in Aotearoa is paying 20.2 percent in tax, the wealthy are only paying 9.4 percent, and they are the ones that usually benefit from these trusts. Our tax system allows the wealthy to illegally avoid tax through housing, investment funds, property, and through trusts, hence why we are supportive of this particular bill in its current form, introduced originally by the last Government\u2014so\u00A0we probably would\u2019ve supported it if it was still a Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re supporting this bill in this current form, because it\u2019s still in the form that they presented, but the amendments that actually give tax breaks to the more wealthy, I think, coming into the committee, that\u2019s where we\u2019re going to get some\u2014like Chl\u00F6e said, it\u2019s going to get exciting. It\u2019s going to get exciting, because what it does is\u2014in actual fact, it does not benefit the 98 percent of the people who pay more tax in this country. Again, what it does is it gives support to the 2 percent who control 50\u00A0percent of this country\u2019s wealth and continue to get the tax breaks that this Government is so openly supportive of\u2014and you can see it across a whole lot of other legislation. You know, it is unacceptable that over 2 million people in Aotearoa earn less than $30,000 per year while the rich use trusts to illegally avoid paying taxes. Now, if the current form of this particular bill holds on to that, we would support it all the way through to third reading, but it will not\u2014it will not\u2014and we will head into the committee having to challenge and continue to challenge this Government\u2019s agenda for tax breaks for the rich and for the wealthy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EI told you I was going to take a short call on this, Mr Speaker, and so I thank you for that particular opportunity. We will be supporting this particular bill at second reading but we look forward to the robust discussions within the committee process. Therefore, we commend this bill, in the second reading, to the House. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002215ba14c7b24642f5a76135951f954c3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215ba14c7b24642f5a76135951f954c3e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Steve Abel\u2014and I should\u2019ve announced that this is a five-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u00221a3d040de11c45e0839718b73a52fb6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a3d040de11c45e0839718b73a52fb6b\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. I appreciate that, Mr Speaker. I\u2019d be very willing to take a shorter call if it was permitted. I mean, we all love taxation, but taxation does have a real effect on people\u2019s lives; it does very much determine the fairness of our society. What this current version of the bill before us does is it makes a fairer taxation system, therefore we will be supporting it at this reading. But, as has been articulated by other members from this side of the House, the proposed changes in the lodged Amendment Paper\u2014which we\u2019re not discussing right now\u2014will reinstate interest deductibility, reduce the brightline test from 10 years to two years, and remove depreciation deductions for commercial and industrial buildings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ENow, I want to speak to why a brightline test at 10 years is such an important thing and why it shouldn\u2019t be moved to two years; that would be a terrible amendment. What we currently have with a brightline test at 10 years\u2014in the current proposal, it means that sellers, if they had a shorter time frame, which they used to, would be required to pay income tax on profits from the sale of residential properties when they are sold within two years of purchase and don\u2019t qualify as the main home. That is why it was moved to 10 years. The objective in doing that was to incentivise development and put downward pressure on rents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ENow, this change is, essentially, retrospective, as investors who may have previously been willing to wait five years or 10 years to sell their property will now be able to sell\u00A0much sooner and pay no additional tax\u2014that is, if it is to be amended and changed. A\u00A0fair taxing tax system is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239dc7a75e0514cb58de819526a344b55\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Abel, the rules of the second reading are: you can refer to possible amendments at the committee but not discuss them in detail\u2014just for your information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a580af4fea4e4044804cbd2c1da522d8\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Thank you, Mr Speaker. So we do not want legislation in our tax system that constitutes a significant tax break for property investors. That is why the current formulation of this legislation does make a fairer tax system. That is what we should be endeavouring to do, because fairness is a core principle of our society; that is agreed to by members of the public. We want a fairer system, and that is why we commend this current version of the bill to the House, and we will be debating at further readings the harms done to this bill by the proposed amendment. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u00225f07a8c6627d4588ac1463cb201c2e39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f07a8c6627d4588ac1463cb201c2e39\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to rise in support of the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. Again, I commend all the work and observations that have been made to get us to this point on this omnibus bill. I was hoping to talk more to the Government\u2019s Amendment Paper, but I respect the process in the Chamber and that that will come at the next stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAlthough referring to it\u2014as you\u2019ve said, we\u2019re allowed to in passing\u2014this omnibus bill with the Government amendments will certainly restore a lot of fairness to those mum and dad landlords that dominate our landscape. In fact, about 80 percent of landlords in New Zealand own one property\u2014they are mum and dad landlords. So restoring interest deductibility for them and returning the brightline test to two years is going to make a real difference. And as this bill will cover off, a lot of us heard on the doorstep just how much people, mum and dad landlords, were looking forward to the Government looking at that restoration of interest deductibility. Again, that is a legitimate cost, a tax expense that should be claimed as an expense, and that is something\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219f86c77ef884f84ada5ef403b32454a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Having pointed out you understood the ruling, you\u2019re probably putting it a little bit far there, Mr Brewer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224092c5769d1144feabbf0e26fcf9732d\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it\u2019s the much more exciting part of the legislation. Like member Swarbrick said, it\u2019s difficult to make it exciting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebaeb8e0095d46bd92737ccbdf57e32b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, another good rule of the House is don\u2019t get ahead of yourself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ea64c6677d5417a89232332e3628bce\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. The main provisions\u2014if we go back to the purpose of the bill\u2014are about redefining New Zealand\u2019s tax framework towards a broad based - low rate model, and improving the administration of taxes, KiwiSaver, and child support by the Inland Revenue Department. Just to recap for those viewers as to what this omnibus bill actually looks at and addresses, it is setting annual tax rates; global anti-base erosion measures; the trustee tax rate, which has been well-exercised, to align with the top personal tax rate; the taxation of backdated lump-sum payments; taxation rollover relief; the Nelson floods and the brightline test there; and the overseas donee status; and correcting extra pay inaccuracy on termination.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo, as our Minister of Revenue, Simon Watts, introduced this stage with, this is something that\u2019s been a huge effort and that pulls a lot of strings together. And as I alluded to and I will allude to one more time, with the amendment bill that\u2019s coming to this taxation bill, it will focus on the Government\u2019s determination to reform our tax policies and address tax anomalies. The residential property investment support\u2014again, measures restoring interest deductibility and reducing that brightline test, which is key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ERegarding the select committee report that others have referred to, the Finance and Expenditure Committee examined this and unanimously recommended its passage, along with unanimous amendments and further recommendations for streamlining the legislative process for tax purposes and emergency responses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo I finish as I began: I am looking forward to talking about the Government\u2019s Amendment Paper, where we\u2019re looking at, and the Minister\u2019s proposing, the restoration of interest deductibility on rental properties and reducing that brightline test from 10 years to two. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00220fb2f65240b84e81ae7ba840ce3c1bb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fb2f65240b84e81ae7ba840ce3c1bb7\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to be able to rise for the second reading of the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThis particular bill has had two fathers and one mother. The two fathers: it first started in the office of the Hon David Parker. I then became its mother and took over the bill as it was progressing through the last stages of the previous Government. Then the final father, who will be shepherding this bill through the rest of the stages, is the Hon Simon Watts. So I just want to make it really clear that there will be parts of this bill that this side of the House will absolutely agree with and we will provide our support for this second reading; however, the last bit that is on the Table, by the new Minister of Revenue, the new father, we will have a lot to say on during the committee of the whole House stage, so I hope the other side of the House is ready for some good debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI do want to take this opportunity to thank the Inland Revenue officials who have worked on this bill, and the drafters that sit within the Inland Revenue Department. A lot of them are actually colleagues that I have worked with in my previous career. They are good folk and they have been able to do their best with this bill and the changes that the Finance and Expenditure Committee (FEC) wanted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI also want to take the opportunity, which is covered briefly in our report, to thank the independent specialist adviser Therese Turner. Now, for any members who have been in this House for a longer time, basically, for any tax bill that has come through this House in the last 15 years, I would say, Therese Turner has been the independent adviser for the select committee and has provided some of the best advice that I\u2019ve seen. I have a little bit of bias because I went to tax camp with Therese Turner in my first\u2014yep, tax camp; that one time at tax camp! I went to tax camp with Therese Turner\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d0a68afab4f4fdfbe26ba370506f498\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Were there flutes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252f4d3432a5642be98bd98c1d96469f1\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you know! So I went to tax camp with Therese Turner. She, basically, managed to distil what I had learnt in taxation law in university over 12 weeks into five days. It was intense, and it was definitely a really good reminder of the reason why I chose to become a tax lawyer. So I want to mihi to Therese Turner, thank her, and thank her husband, Ian, for supporting Therese to be able to do a stellar job for New Zealand and for our Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo, going back to the bill, I\u2019d like to acknowledge, actually, the Government members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee. They\u2019ve come on to the bill at quite a sort of a difficult stage, but the work that we did within the select committee, particularly on the revision-tracked version of the bill, was very cordial. So I want to acknowledge those members, because it\u2019s not easy just picking up a tax bill sort of part-way through the process and then, basically, listening to a lot of long hours of submissions and being able to work cordially with the other side. So I just want to mihi to them as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EOne of the elements of this particular tax bill is the Global Anti-Base Erosion (GLoBE) model rules. For a long time, there\u2019s been what\u2019s called the base erosion and profit shifting policy work that\u2019s been happening in the OECD in Paris. Inland Revenue has been sending people to be part of the working group to, basically, remove the ability to arbitrage between different jurisdictions for tax purposes. So the GLoBE rules that this particular bill brings in remove another element of that arbitrage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EWe had a number of submitters come to the committee, because what this particular bill says is that we will enforce these new particular rules but with reference to the OECD guidelines. So that\u2019s, basically, what this bill does. We had a number of submitters come to FEC saying that, well, actually it shouldn\u2019t be in reference to the OECD rules, because if the OECD changes the rules and then here in New Zealand we don\u2019t agree with them, we don\u2019t really have an ability to be able to change that quickly. However, some of these submitters said that, actually, we should just have those particular rules in this primary legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EHowever, the advice from officials and, actually, through a number of submitters\u2014because the FEC worked really cordially together and we tested the other submitters as they came through\u2014was that because the way that arbitrage is happening across different tax jurisdictions can happen quickly, the OECD, who, basically, have a full unit that works with the different countries, can make those changes and New Zealand can input into that process through the working group. So the committee agreed with officials, which is why it\u2019s still by reference in this particular revision-tracked version.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EHowever, the FEC did say to officials that we want to ensure that people have certainty of those rules, and we asked them where they will publish them. They advised that it would be in a web page, the tax information bulletin, but, basically, we were comforted by the fact that, actually, Inland Revenue would do their job to make sure that taxpayers here\u2014because it\u2019s only if you earn a significant revenue that you would come within these new GLoBE rules. The Inland Revenue, basically, said, \u201CWell, actually, we have case managers for a number of those significant enterprises, and we will make sure that they can comply with these rules even if the OECD in France changes it.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EOne of the things that we did look at was around the application date of those GLoBE rules, and the select committee\u2014the bill when it was introduced, it was through Order in Council. However, through our deliberation as a select committee, we decided, actually, we believe that we should have an application date within the bill. So that is a change from the bill that was introduced to this revision-tracked version. So the FEC has recommended amending the bill so that the income inclusion rules, part of the GLoBE rules, under tax profits rules apply from 1 January 2025, and the domestic income inclusion rule applies from 1 January 2026. So that\u2019s a small change, which, even though it looks small on paper and in our report back, is actually a bigger change, because previously it was through regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe trustee tax rate: this side of the House believed, when we introduced some of the changes, actually, a couple of years ago\u2014the trustee tax rate was at 33 percent. Basically, what the Hon David Parker said to his officials at the time was \u201CKeep an eye on this change between 33 percent and 39 percent.\u201D, which is the top personal tax rate, which they had changed in the 2024-25 tax year. So he said to his officials, \u201CJust keep an eye on that. If you think that we need to change it for integrity reasons, then we will look at doing so.\u201D So, therefore, that\u2019s why this particular bill does include an increase to 39 percent, to align with the top personal tax rates from the 2024-25 tax year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EOne minor change, though, that came out strongly through the submitters who came to the Finance and Expenditure Committee was that they were saying, \u201CIf you don\u2019t put in a threshold, there\u2019s going to be a lot of compliance cost for barely any revenue.\u201D So the recommendation that came out quite strongly from submitters was that we should bring in a threshold of $10,000. The committee did have some good debate on it, and, basically, we agreed with those submitters, which is the change that you\u2019ll see in this bill, which is a de minimis rule\u2014so that\u2019s for trusts that have under $10,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a couple of changes there around the disabled beneficiary trust rule, and, again, it\u2019s to make sure that they\u2019re not being over-taxed. That is a change which we believed as a committee needed to be done\u2014especially for those who are beneficiaries of trusts and who are disabled, to make that compliance a little bit easier for them as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EA really important change that is in this bill\u2014which I have seen through various roles, probably over the last maybe eight years\u2014is the taxation of backdated lump-sum payments. This bill changes the way that backdated lump-sum payments from ACC and the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) are treated. So, basically, rather than a person getting a lump-sum payment and they\u2019re getting fully taxed on the year that they received that backdated lump-sum payment, this bill changes it to look over the four previous tax years. We believe that this was bringing greater fairness into the system, because a lot of these ACC clients and MSD clients, through no fault of their own, were absolutely eligible for these backdated payments, and we just thought, to be able to treat it a bit more fairly, you\u2019d look back over the four years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo, just to finish off, probably the last bit, which is at the time I was the mother of the bill, the taxation rollover relief for the 2023 North Island floods\u2014I want to thank the Minister for agreeing to that particular Supplementary Order Paper (SOP). That was introduced after the bill was introduced, but we could allow for submissions on it through releasing that SOP. I want to thank the Hon Simon Watts, because one of the early deliberations of the committee was whether he was going to accept it or not; he did accept it. I believe, for those who were in the North Island floods, in those particular areas who have already had a difficult time, some of this rollover relief will be absolutely pivotal for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo I do support this bill at the second reading. We will have a lot to say in the committee of the whole House. I commend this stage to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022211b40d142c245bf89c8922fc30c8e1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022211b40d142c245bf89c8922fc30c8e1b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. And just for the clarification of members, the previous speaker spoke on an amendment that had actually gone through the committee, so she was able to speak at some detail about that amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u00222ff3f76d0bfe44bc81cce7b69ff6ee17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ff3f76d0bfe44bc81cce7b69ff6ee17\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E As a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, I am very pleased to stand in front of you today to commend the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill second reading, to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EThe Finance and Expenditure Committee met multiple times and heard many public submissions from industry experts, tax experts, independent specialist advisers, policy advisers, as well as individual, day-to-day New Zealanders who had a genuine interest, and their best intention was to give their recommendation to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. If I can share a little bit of the public submissions that we heard, there were 67 interested groups of written submissions and individuals that we received and considered. As the select committee, we also heard oral evidence from 25 submitters. As a Finance and Expenditure Committee member, and as my first term as a new member of Parliament, I really wanted to say a big thankyou to these New Zealanders who have come forward to give their best advice to the House, to the select committee, on what they see is the best future for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EIf I may now\u2014to join the many people before me, the many members before me\u2014thank Therese Turner for her excellent contribution over 25 years as an independent specialist adviser on many, many tax bills. When I had the opportunity to listen to her, and to have her advice, I thought she would have been one of the best tax lecturers I could have wished for during my university years. And, during the later stages of our select committee meeting, when I found out that she had decided to take a step back and step down as an adviser to us, I felt very disappointed\u2014disappointed that I hadn\u2019t met her earlier, so that I could learn more from her and make a good contribution to the House. So I look forward to the second Therese Turner, to the third Therese Turner, who can be very helpful to us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EIf I can, in my time, bring us back to the 10 main provisions of this bill in front of the House. Those were clearly laid out by members before me already, so I won\u2019t repeat them. But the main provisions that I really, really wanted to talk on today are the three which are the global anti-base erosion (GloBE) rules, the trustee tax rate, as well as the restoring of the brightline test back to two years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EThe reason why I wanted to address these three main provisions particularly are because of the messages that I have received, through email, on doorsteps, through phone calls, through many, many of my former colleagues in the tax and accounting industry, who have come forward to say to me, \u201CFinally, finally, you guys\u201D\u2014\u201Cyou guys\u201D referring to the Government\u2014\u201Care finally listening to what people in the industry really wanted.\u201D For that, I wanted to give three key messages that I have received. One is around our adoption of the OECD\u2019s GloBE rules. The key point that I received was: we are not re-creating the rules; we are learning from the best practices, and we are adopting them. We are looking for ways that we can be efficient and effective, and we are bringing the best practices to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EAlso, on the trust tax rates, what I have also heard was our best effort to understand what is really captured between the trusts and between the individual tax rate\u2014the discrepancies in the tax system. The compliments that I have received were about the de minimis of $10,000\u2014that we have thought about the alignment but we have also thought about what is practical for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003ELastly, the amendment that I have received a lot of compliments about was restoring the brightline test to two years. From the many, many doors that I have knocked on and phone calls that I have made, the fact is that most of the households here are mums and dads who really just wanted the two years back, because they need the flexibility\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022406d678289694c7aba7a10a7d5f96a62\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Lu, you\u2019ve been sitting in the House. You know that\u2019s a proposed amendment that you can refer to, but you\u2019re getting into some tintacks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a91fc23e4b94704ab4965b681d54273\u0022\u003ENANCY LU\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. So, if I can say, listening to all the opinions\u2014from the many different perspectives, different political backgrounds on the select committee, but also the many different social backgrounds, many different targets and different goals, and from the many stakeholders\u2014I wanted to say I am honoured to be part of a team that was able to see across all the differences and rise above, stand back, and finally, agree on something, so that we can highlight New Zealand\u2019s dedication to forming tax policies that are modern, that are efficient, and that are effective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EAs a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and for the National Party, I am pleased to present this bill to you, which we\u2019ve agreed on unanimously, and to recommend this stage to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002262ceae31fc114686aa7553b29a678c2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262ceae31fc114686aa7553b29a678c2c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a five-minute split call\u2014Rachel Boyack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00220f81e727e66d45e9a6dfc2cd52225297\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f81e727e66d45e9a6dfc2cd52225297\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a short call on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThis is a very good bill, and I want to begin my contribution by thanking the three Ministers that have worked across this bill and also to put on record my thanks to the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2014of which I\u2019m not a member, so I haven\u2019t been part of the select committee process. My thanks to both the former committee and the current committee and all of the officials\u2014particularly Therese Turner\u2014who have worked in providing advice to Ministers and also to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIt is a very good bill. Unfortunately, as other members have noted during their contributions\u2014and I\u2019ll just speak briefly to it\u2014we have seen some of the proposed amendments from the Government that will come forward at the committee stage. Unfortunately, it\u2019s the opinion on this side of the House that the bill will no longer be as good as it is today. So I wanted to take some time today to talk to two particular matters in the bill that are relevant to the work that I do as a parliamentarian. The first is around my role as spokesperson for ACC, and, secondly, there is some improvement here in the bill that will affect some of our homeowners who were affected by the Nelson floods nearly two years ago, and I\u2019ll talk to that briefly also.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll begin by just speaking around the changes that the bill makes to the taxation of backdated lump-sum payments. As ACC spokesperson, but also as a constituent MP, I have spoken to people who have received these lump-sum payments, and I\u2019m sure nearly every electorate MP and many other MPs would have spoken to people in those situations. I want to talk specifically around ACC lump-sum payments given to those who have had sensitive claims. Sensitive claims are an important part of the ACC system\u2014so people who may have been subjected to often quite horrific examples of sexual abuse, often when they were younger, who, later in life, have been able to take a claim from ACC and receive both support through things like counselling but also a lump-sum payment that allows them to have access to some income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI want to speak particularly to a constituent who I\u2019ve gotten to know very well over the last couple of years who came to me about this very issue. What she\u2019s told me is that the impact of that abuse when she was a little girl has robbed her of her opportunities. It has robbed her of the income that she could have earned if she\u2019d been able to go to work like others who haven\u2019t had such significant offences committed against them. One of the things that I think this bill addresses so very well is that people who receive these payments would often end up receiving a large payment that would pop them up sometimes into the highest tax bracket. Even if you looked at it only over a year, often it would be significantly more income than a person would earn in previous years. So it is a very good change in the bill that people will be able to have that lump-sum payment assessed across a four-year period. I think it\u2019s one of those issues where all of us across the House would have met with people who have been subject to these particular circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI think the only message I would want to send to my constituent\u2014who I\u2019ve met with on many occasions and who has lobbied for this type of change\u2014is just how unfortunate it is that we can\u2019t make these changes retrospective. That is the nature of our lawmaking. Unfortunately, we can\u2019t go back in time across all of those lump-sum payments that have occurred. But what I do want to be able to say to my constituent is that she and others like her have been heard\u2014you have been heard by the House\u2014and this is one of those changes that does make this bill a very good bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EJust in the final few seconds of my contribution, I want to acknowledge the change here for the small number of people who were impacted by the Nelson floods nearly two years ago, and I\u2019d just like to put on record, before he gives his final speech tomorrow, my thanks to the Hon Grant Robertson, who made this happen. It was a couple of phone calls\u2014after we\u2019d been having real challenges, to be honest, with officials both at the council and departmental level\u2014that actually got this buy-out across the line. My thanks specifically to Grant Robertson for making that happen. What this bill would have meant was that, again, those affected by Cyclone Gabrielle and the Auckland floods would have had the benefit of this bill, but not my constituents in Nelson. So it\u2019s a very good change, and I do want to thank the committee from the bottom of my heart that, once again, my constituents in Nelson have been treated fairly, as they needed to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a great bill at this stage\u2014might not be so great in a few weeks\u2019 time\u2014so\u00A0I\u00A0commend it at this stage to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u00221b340face21d459f8f65cc00ea555dcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b340face21d459f8f65cc00ea555dcd\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure for me to stand and talk to this bill, the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. And it\u2019s very pleasing to have just recently returned to the House to find that everybody is, basically, supporting this through this particular stage, although it may be questionable about future parts, according to the Opposition there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EBut when I joined Parliament and was lucky enough to be on the Finance and Expenditure Committee, I soon realised the amount of work that had already been done. And, as was previously mentioned, I think it was Barbara Edmonds who called this the \u201CTwo Fathers and a Mother Bill\u201D. It\u2019s been through a number of Ministers\u2019 hands to get to where it is today. I look at the process that has been run, and I do feel that what I have been involved with\u2014the many submitters that have come forward to present and the way in which the committee has resolved with what it has presented to the House today\u2014has been a very thorough process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EIf I look at the purpose, and without reading the purpose of the bill, I would summarise it as being a bill about fairness. It\u2019s about the fairness of individuals not being overtaxed; it\u2019s about the fairness of entities, being trusts and that, not being overtaxed; but it\u2019s also about reasonableness, and that\u2019s about individuals and entities that have earned profits actually paying their fair share of tax as a result of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EThere are many other main purposes of this bill. One of them that I would like to speak to is the global anti-base erosion (GloBE) rules, and that is the one with regards to multinational entities. Obviously, we\u2019re talking about entities that do have a significant revenue. In fact, they only reach the threshold of being attached to these rules once they\u2019ve reached \u20AC750 million, which provides them the position of having the effective rate of 15 percent. That rule is all about making sure that we don\u2019t have entities shifting their profits around the world and removing the ability to pay taxes. The many countries that have already signed up to the GloBE rules is a very good step forward to making sure that any profits that are earned in a jurisdiction are paying a fair and reasonable tax in that jurisdiction. I\u2019m hoping that the GloBE rules will actually, ultimately, affect that outcome, particularly once more countries attend. I understand it\u2019s north of 130 countries that are looking at that at this particular point in time, and I\u2019m sure many of those countries are very fortunate that they\u2019ve actually got that passed through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EObviously, with those GloBE rules administered at an OECD level, they are up for change. There are clauses within the bill that allow our country to have our autonomy if we don\u2019t agree with it, so it\u2019s not like it\u2019s a catch-all. So I think we\u2019ve got sensible clauses within the bill that protect our sovereignty, but at this stage, joining with the rest of them, I think, makes sense as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been considerable debate amongst the submitters. There\u2019s been plenty of submissions about the trust tax rate. Clearly, on that, I think there was argument about what is a reasonable threshold. At the beginning, every trust was going to be paying the highest tax rate of 39c in the dollar for all of their profits or income earned. Obviously, it came to the point with the submissions that we felt that that wasn\u2019t actually fair, and the $10,000 threshold for the 39c tax rate coming into play, the committee felt, was fair and reasonable. We did have a look at many different levels, including right up to as high as $100,000 and maybe even further north of that. Probably for every action there\u2019s an equal and opposite reaction, and we felt that this $10,000 threshold ensures that maybe large trusts aren\u2019t incentivised to cut themselves down into smaller revenue-earning trusts and endeavouring to play the tax system that way. The cost of not just starting up a trust but also yearly or annually administering a trust probably dissuades people from actually doing that. So I\u2019m pleased to take this short call, and I\u2019m happy to support the bill to the\u00A0House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u00225828b7748cc64222b3e7ddfc08bc2e26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225828b7748cc64222b3e7ddfc08bc2e26\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, if you\u2019ll indulge me, I\u2019d like to acknowledge the previous speaker, David MacLeod, and seeing him enjoy WOMAD in his rohe yesterday. It was great to see such a great arts event. Congratulations to you as the local MP and to the organisers, and I do hope that he goes into bat for the artists when the inevitable cuts come, around the 6.5 to 7.5 percent, because we do know they\u2019re a vulnerable group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EBut, Mr Speaker, you will be happy to know that I plan today to talk about the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill, and I would like to focus my comments on the brightline test. I do so because of the report, on page 11, around the Nelson floods and the brightline test, alluded to by my colleague Rachel Boyack. What this bill does\u2014we know that there is unanimous support for it across the House\u2014one of the really good things it does, is it proposes section CZ 26B of the Income Tax Act, to be inserted by new clause 18C, to ensure that the brightline and other time-related tests do not apply to a property that\u2019s been affected by North Island adverse weather events and subsequently bought out by the Crown or a local authority. As Rachel Boyack said: in Nelson, there are actually about 14\u00A0properties that the local council is looking to buy out, and without this proposed amendment that was suggested by the Finance and Expenditure Committee, it would mean that the brightline test would have applied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ENow, would that be a good idea if a local council was purchasing a property in those situations? Let me unpack that a little bit. First of all, for those who are following along, a brightline test is, basically, a way to tax the financial gains that people make when they buy or sell a house for income. We know that the brightline test currently is at five years, and other members have alluded to a tabled\u2014but not moved\u2014amendment that proposes to move that to two years. Now, if we did not have the suggestion in the report by the select committee and the change to the bill, those 14 houses would be subject to the current brightline test of five years, which would seem terribly unfair, to tax the owners of those houses; to say, even though these weather events mean they are forced to sell their houses, effectively, to the Nelson Council\u2014it would seem very unfair to tax them. So the fairness principle does seem to apply here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThat also raises the question of when is it fair to tax properties in those circumstances. Now, as other speakers have said, if we had retained the taxation principles Act, we might have had a better barometer, in my view, because that did have six criteria\u2014universally accepted criteria\u2014by which to say, very clearly, we could measure vertical and horizontal equity, and so on. We no longer have that Act, so the idea about when it is or isn\u2019t fair becomes, effectively, a political judgment. And that, then, for me, raises the question, \u201CWell, if we\u2019re looking at brightline tests\u201D\u2014which is brought into this debate under the Nelson changes and recommendations. I\u2019d just like to make a few comments about that, because there are assumptions about brightline tests and interest deductibility that have been made, about increasing housing supply, and they\u2019ve been made in this debate. But, actually, that only applies in a competitive market. And the issue we have here, as everybody knows across the House, is that New Zealand does not have enough houses being built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to add that there\u2019s also $2 billion going each year to landlords for an accommodation supplement. So it starts to create perverse drivers, where a brightline test and interest deductibility are a way of allowing people to double dip. They don\u2019t pay tax on their capital gain if they are selling the house outside of the brightline and yet they are able to claim interest deductibility. That will encourage more landlords to purchase large numbers of houses, which is what we have seen previously, which makes the market tighter. They\u2019re incentivised by the accommodation allowance\u2014$2 billion a year\u2014and, ultimately, rents go up. And I would say that the justification of a kind of trickle-down economics in this kind of scenario doesn\u2019t work, especially in an environment where councils are adding significantly to rates bills because they have repealed the affordable water reforms that the previous Government brought in and, therefore, there are incentives for landlords to actually use any surplus that they generate or any profit to try and offset those increased costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EAs I say, I raise this because there is an amendment that\u2019s been referred to, and I\u2019m not going to go into the provisions of that amendment; I know, under Standing Orders 122(3) and 123(1), that wouldn\u2019t be appropriate, but I do note that I can refer to the subject matter, and that subject matter has certainly been traversed by speakers on both sides of the House. So I would just ask those who are listening in\u2014this is a little bit of my view on why we are signalling that, although we support this bill as it currently stands, there is a tabled amendment yet to be moved which raises these very issues that are also raised by the Nelson scenario, which we will be vehemently opposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe other element to that is that it\u2019s very cynical, in my view, to introduce that amendment after the select committee process. So the debate has been confined. The debate that we had on this very issue\u2014about the brightline and interest deductibility, and what\u2019s fair, and how markets may or may not move\u2014will not be able to take place now. I understand that; it has to happen at the committee of the whole House stage. But I would urge people to be watching at the committee stage, because that is when we will have licence to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, I just want to say that it\u2019s very useful having this reference to the Nelson situation, to the 14 houses. It gives us an example of where the brightline does have a direct impact and where we can see that it would be very unfair to apply that test, or only let North Island flood-affected houses have the benefit of that, where Nelson wouldn\u2019t have been able to. And I also think it\u2019s really important to acknowledge Therese Turner. As a former chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, I also had the benefit of her very pragmatic and sound and solid tax advice as we worked through similar complex bills in the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EFinally, just also to endorse\u2014and thank, actually\u2014the chair of the select committee and the comments that have been made about making sure that taxation on lump-sum payments, under the Ministry of Social Development in particular, are now fairer through the amendments of this bill. I remember when I was at the Brighton fair a couple of years ago and one of my constituents came up to me. I do hope he is still with us. He had stage 4 terminal cancer. He had been able to get a lump-sum payment on the basis of medical misadventure associated with treatment for that, but because the lump sum had come in at the end of a very late period, he was due to pay a lot of tax on it. He had been fighting for many years to get equity around that issue. So this is a great day if he\u2019s still with us; if he\u2019s not, I want to salute the work that he did and his advocacy for this. It is only fair that lump sums are paid at the equitable rate of when the tax payment would have been due, not a lump sum at the end, which is likely to increase people\u2019s income and, therefore, lead to a higher tax rate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo, in the dying moments of this debate, while we do support the bill, it has had many mothers and fathers, as the Hon Barbara Edmonds has said. I look forward to some fireworks at the committee stage, when these very important questions about tax fairness, about the brightline test, about interest deductibility, and about what is appropriate and what is the true impact for renters in the market will come to the fore. It will feel truncated because it hasn\u2019t been to select committee, and therefore, we will certainly make our views known, and we invite viewers out there to follow the debate closely, because there is something about the logic of the National-led Government that doesn\u2019t add up. It\u2019s trickle-down economics. So I\u2019ll reserve my comments for then and commend this bill currently as it is to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u00223b3e86c998014f8d948d1b9eb6df3b78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b3e86c998014f8d948d1b9eb6df3b78\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I thank you for this opportunity to speak in support of this bill. It\u2019s great to see cross-party agreement across the House on this, and we\u2019ve enjoyed our discussions through the select committee process and listening to submissions on various parts of the bill. But, you know, on this side of the House, we are laser focused on creating a better tax system in New Zealand, one that is fairer and does enable hard-working New Zealanders to keep more of what they earn and get ahead. There are many parts to this bill and there are many complexities to it, but it is all focused on creating a fairer tax system for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EOne area that I do particularly want to comment on is the tax relief that it will provide for a lot of the victims of Cyclone Gabrielle. I\u2019m the MP for Tukituki, and in my electorate we still have hundreds of families that are doing it really, really tough out there, in our cyclone-ravaged region. The amendments to this bill will ensure that those property owners whose assets have been destroyed by the cyclone get deferral of tax liability on insurance proceeds for assets affected by the floods. This is a practical approach for many people who are going through an extremely stressful time, and they just don\u2019t need the added stress of tax at this very, very tough time\u2014the last thing they need is that, when they have so much to do to, basically, repair their properties. Many are currently going through category 3 buy-outs of their homes. It\u2019s really, really tough. It\u2019s a year on, and they\u2019re still dealing with quite a slow process, trying to get the buy-outs for their homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EAlso, adjusting the brightline test will provide relief for flood victims as well. So this is something that I think we should all be very, very supportive of, particularly for so many doing it tough, not only in Hawke\u2019s Bay and the East Coast but also across Nelson and that particular area as well, where those property owners are going to be given a lot of relief through this bill. Similar tax relief was provided in Christchurch, with the earthquake in Kaik\u014Dura, so it makes sense that we are looking at practical solutions around tax and providing tax relief and respecting those people that are doing it tough across the East Coast and Nelson. So I do really, really support this particular area of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EWe made a number of recommendations around the select committee process, when it came to tax relief around Cyclone Gabrielle and the Nelson floods and the North Island weather events. And I do believe that this bill is very supportive of the people in those regions and what they\u2019re going through, and will be very, very beneficial for them. But I think that, overall, this bill is about fairness; it\u2019s about creating a tax system that is fair for everyone. We spoke, in the select committee process, around the global anti-base erosion rules, which will prevent tax-base erosion by multinational companies, to ensure global consistency. That, again, is going to create more fairness within the tax system. And the trustee tax\u2014to create more consistency, again, across the tax system, to ensure that we do have a fairer, broader, better tax system. Then the lump payments\u2014as the member across the House has also alluded to earlier, that this is fairer. We heard submissions about people that were getting lump sums, and it only seems fair that it shouldn\u2019t be all specifically taxed at once.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003ESo these are all targeting a fairer system, which we absolutely agree with because, on this side of the House, we are very, very focused on ensuring that hard-working New\u00A0Zealanders are able to keep more of what they earn. And, as the member across the House has also spoken about, the brightline test, and looking at where we can see benefits in reducing that brightline test back to two years, is going to be very, very beneficial. Then, when we look at the select committee process, as she spoke about, in terms of interest deductibility and the benefit that that is going to have on our housing sector and relieving the housing crisis\u2014because we have seen rents go up $170 a week in this country. So restoring interest deductibility is really going to look at downward pressure, it\u2019s going to look at lowering rents, opening more houses up, so that we\u2019re not inflicting more cost on landlords. So there\u2019s no types of things\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ede17384af6d43fc8fee0e93b1d7470a\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr. Speaker, I just refer you to Speakers\u2019 rulings 122/3 and 123/1, where the speaker may refer to matters in the amendment but not speak to that. The points that I made were in relation to Nelson, which was mentioned in the current bill, but I believe the speaker is going outside of that purview.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204ca6aeeead848f4973d5f5bfeff7ed6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just take some advice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c088541806f4ed68d3700ac4a3e66ac\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s OK, I will round it up now, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022804860699499481b8baf7caf504d4d96\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll take this point of order, thank you. Thank you to the member for that point of order. I do understand that the previous Speaker that was sitting in the Chair had taken your point, so I hear your point. So I would invite the member to wrap it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d55a07cea3c4436a63ac50b8e0d419b\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, OK. Absolutely. There\u2019s many great things about this bill that we have discussed through the select committee process\u2014many benefits, particularly in cyclone-ravaged Hawke\u2019s Bay. So I do commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284118c28943b4242a32f71eaa32f434b\u0022\u003ERoad User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c704bcaa0df412793ee05156bd7cba7\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3d195842fc448ad8ea0b3b595a4d482\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3d195842fc448ad8ea0b3b595a4d482\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThis bill, which we are now putting through Parliament, through its second reading, is an important bill in order to ensure that all vehicles that use our roads are paying towards, contributing towards, the maintenance and upkeep of our roading network. In 2009, the previous National Government put in place an exemption for light electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles from paying road-user charges (RUCs) in order to encourage their uptake. The exemption was always to end once those classes of vehicles reached around 2 percent of the light vehicle fleet, which they have now passed, so this legislation has been brought into the House in order to transition those vehicles into the road-user charge system on 1 April.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI note that this legislation has been brought to the House and has had to go through a relatively quick process through a select committee due to the fact that the last Government failed to address these issues prior to the last election. They consulted back in 2022 in relation to what changes were needed to transition plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles into the system but failed to make any actual legislative changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EOne of the key issues which I asked the Transport and Infrastructure Committee to look at is in relation to plug-in hybrid vehicles, because, of course, if we didn\u2019t bring this bill to the House, those vehicles would have to pay the full road-user charge rate, by means of the fact that they both are powered by a petrol engine and also by an electric battery which can be plugged into the wall and receive electricity. So if this legislation wasn\u2019t brought to the House, on 1 April this year, the reality is that the owners of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles would be paying the full road-user charge rate of $76 for 1,000 kilometres. In order to ensure that that didn\u2019t happen, because, of course, that would be unfair based on the fact that they do consume fuel and pay fuel excise duty, we put this legislation to Parliament in order to address the fact that the RUC rate needed to reflect the fact that they were also paying petrol excise as well. We proposed in that legislation a 30 percent RUC rate reduction based on the fact that those vehicles consume on average around 2 litres per 100\u00A0kilometres, but also reflecting the fact that the real-world usage is often different from what the manufacturer data says. And, of course, we asked the committee to particularly look at that issue to ensure that we had a fair outcome from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe Government has announced today that we will be ensuring that that RUC rate is extended to 50 percent, reflecting the fact that, actually, particularly, older plug-in hybrid vehicles do have a higher fuel consumption due to their battery life being either diminished or not being as good as some of the newer plug-in hybrid vehicles. So we think this is an ability to compromise and get to a better approach on this particular issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EOf course, the select committee heard from hundreds of submitters over a very short period of time. We thank the select committee for the time that it took to listen to those submitters. As I outlined, the reason for the short select committee was, unfortunately, due to the fact that the last Government didn\u2019t deal with this problem, but I do just want to thank the committee for dealing with those hundreds of submitters and to be able to come back to the House in such a short period of time, and I want to thank all the members of the committee for their contribution towards that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EOf course, the other change that this bill does make is in relation to battery electric vehicles, and, of course, it requires those vehicles to pay the RUC rate of $76 per 1,000\u00A0kilometres from 1 April this year. Of course, this legislation isn\u2019t proposing to adjust the RUC rate, as other members may be wanting to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EBut I do just want to make the final point in this debate\u2014two final points\u2014in relation to the next steps. Firstly, this is a transition. The reality is that this bill has highlighted the fact that there are significant variances in terms of how much vehicles pay to use the road depending on what type of fuel they use. So if you have a hybrid or a plug-in hybrid or a battery electric or a diesel, the reality is that vehicles are paying a different amount to use the roads compared to others, based on the fuel that they\u2019ve used. That\u2019s because our system for paying to use the road has been based on fuel excise duty, which charges a certain number of cents per litre, rather than a predominantly road-user charge system, which charges based on how many kilometres we use the roads. So it\u2019s this Government\u2019s intention that this is the first step in transitioning all vehicles to a road-user charge so that all vehicles, regardless of what type of fuel they use, whether they\u2019re a petrol car, whether they\u2019re a hybrid, whether they\u2019re a plug-in hybrid, whether they\u2019re diesel, whether they\u2019re battery electric, whether they\u2019re hydrogen\u2014regardless of what type of vehicle is using the road, ultimately, it is this Government\u2019s view that vehicles should pay road-user charges based on the weight and the distance that they use the road, rather than based on the type of fuel that they use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo this Government will be progressing further changes in regards to moving all vehicles to a road-user charge based on distance travelled and vehicle weight. We\u2019re currently receiving advice on that, and we\u2019ll be moving at pace and doing that as quickly as possible, and I note that the select committee also made that particular point in their report back to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe final point is that there will be a two-month transition from 1 April. So there are over 100,000 vehicles which will be impacted by this change. We note that that is a significant number of vehicles to bring into the road-user charge system. The New\u00A0Zealand Transport Agency is communicating with all of those owners of those vehicles, and there will be two months which, by the end of that two-month period\u2014by\u00A0the end of May\u2014all those vehicles will have had to have purchased their first road-user charge licence. So we\u2019ve tried to provide maximum flexibility in order to smoothen that transition and also to ensure that the agency is able to have time, people are able to have time, before they have to have purchased their first road-user charge licence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo this Government supports the intent of this bill. We\u2019re pleased with the progress it\u2019s made. We are making the change around the plug-in hybrid rates but we\u2019re also, as I said, outlining our intent to continue to progress work for all vehicles to be paying a road-user charge based on distance and vehicle weight. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00228065ab92d1844ba7a5717b5fc8333aab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228065ab92d1844ba7a5717b5fc8333aab\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you very much. It\u2019s an honour to speak on this important piece of legislation. Transport across our big country for everyone\u2014individuals or commerce\u2014is vitally important. I wasn\u2019t on the select committee, but I want to thank my colleagues, who arguably have saved the day, actually, particularly for plug-in hybrid vehicles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I just go back a couple of steps? I\u2019ll confess that as someone who drives probably 60,000 to 70,000 kilometres a year, owns a truck that probably creates the potholes, rides a motorbike that suffers when you hit the potholes, and has a car somewhere in the middle there, our roading system is in a dire situation, in large part because we bought heavier trucks\u2014the last National Government put heavier trucks on the road\u2014and then froze the funding for maintenance and improvements. So, when we came into Government, we had a big challenge of increasing substantially the funding for roading, and indeed we did do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAs was pointed out before by the Minister: in 2009, the National Government saw the need for electric vehicles and so brought in some\u2014well, what they thought were exemptions, of course, for electric vehicles. The idea was that we\u2019d have a transition through to more electric vehicles in our fleet\u2014in fact, the target being 2 percent. In fact, that only started to occur when the Labour Government brought in incentives\u2014or the Labour coalition Government, when New Zealand First had some sense\u2014when we brought in the Clean Car Discount that did provide a direct incentive for people to buy Teslas. Indeed, the Prime Minister took up that opportunity\u2014and because, as we know, there\u2019s market failure through our economy and if we\u2019re wanting to transition forward, then we have to provide the incentives. This piece of legislation indeed moves that forward. It was going to park the incentives, because at a 30 percent discount for plug-in hybrid vehicles, they would have been paying more than the equivalent petrol vehicle. That anomaly, which would have discouraged people from the transition, was addressed by my colleague who brought in an amendment which the Minister in his wisdom is going to carry through. So thank you very much to members on the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIf I go back to Labour in Government, we did see this anomaly and this challenge of how we would get vehicles that, clearly, are using the road, to contribute to road maintenance. So Waka Kotahi, who I think, in my personal experience, is not the best Government organisation\u2014I\u2019ve seen over many, many years, them in their different forms, come to Government with advice, much of it flawed, in my view. They have changed systems. We have a road system that\u2019s not safe, a road system that is not maintained, and a road system in which consecutive Ministers have taken advice from Waka Kotahi. I hope this current Minister is going to shake them up because I don\u2019t believe they\u2019ve provided the right advice on driver licensing and, as I say, on road safety and many other things. And I\u2019m not sure that their advice on road-user charges (RUC) is the fairest way, across the board, to provide direct contribution to road maintenance, or is the right way forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EAs a truck owner, you can go online, and you can pay road-user charges and you\u2019ll get a ticket in the mail and then you put it on your windscreen. It\u2019s all OK and many diesel vehicle owners would know that system. But if we\u2019re going to apply that across the whole fleet, it is going to be, in my view, a bit of an administrative challenge. That\u2019s one of the things that is being looked at\u2014and I\u2019m sure the Minister might come to it\u2014so I\u2019m just putting on the record that what we\u2019re doing here, in making adjustments for the right reasons and finally having the incentives in place for a decarbonised lower-emissions fleet, which we all agree is necessary\u2014I hope that we\u2019re not going to bring in an administrative system that becomes another challenge for the average Kiwi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIf you run a fleet of trucks, you\u2019ll have a sound administrative system. Even if you run a couple of trucks or you run one truck, you kind of put up with the road-user charges application system. It\u2019s not that complex but it is none the less an administrative requirement. For the average Kiwi to transition from a petrol vehicle, where every time you fill up, you pay your excise, into one of having to actively apply for road-user charges, then I think there may be some challenges. Now there\u2019s an electronic alternative. And the question I\u2019d ask of the Minister or of Waka Kotahi as we move forward is: what\u2019s the cost of that system relative to the benefits, and is there an alternative? Because I think that the Minister of Transport will come back to this House, in this Government, and propose that road-user charges go up. They\u2019ve said there will be no extra taxes or charges. Well, I don\u2019t believe them. I\u2019ve seen too many false statements on that area, so the issue of not only the charges for RUC but then the system of rolling that through the whole fleet is one that we in Labour, in Opposition, will challenge the Government as they move forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I acknowledge the areas in the bill where there have been exemptions made, particularly for rural vehicles. I think that\u2019s important, particularly for rural vehicles. I think that\u2019s important, and I\u2019m sure that those people moving out in areas\u2014and,\u00A0obviously, there\u2019s the evolution, in spite of what farmers might have denied, of electric vehicles on farm which will be more efficient and more effective as well, in many ways, to get around the farm. That is an evolution that I think we must also welcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I just say that the other thing that this bill will do is put the Government and our country in a better position to honour its commitments in the EU-New Zealand free-trade agreement which we will be debating after this. Because if the changes hadn\u2019t been made by my Labour colleagues to provide a 50 percent discount for RUC for plug-in vehicles, and they had left it at 30 percent, then in fact we would have been stepping back from what has been in place: an incentive to move to a decarbonised passenger fleet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe EU trade agreement says\u2014and it might be discussed later\u2014that we, as two parties to agreement, must continue to do our best to reduce emissions across our economies and contribute positively to the Paris accord goals. So, they are noble and, in fact, legal obligations, and the adjustments made in this bill mean that we will continue on that track, hopefully with people who buy plug-in electric vehicles who now will at least have the same benefit, if not a greater benefit, than remaining with an electric vehicle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe reality is that human nature likes incentives. We heard it from a couple of the Ministers there that the farmers want incentives, they don\u2019t want to be driven by regulation. Some would call it subsidies, I guess, and subsidies and incentives are part of human nature. What we\u2019re doing in this piece of legislation here is shifting the obligation to pay for your use on the roads and arguably, your impact on the roads, although in my view that still has to be properly assessed. But electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles do clearly contribute to some impact on the roads, and they do have to pay through RUC, but the plug-in hybrid vehicles will pay at the appropriate level, with still a little incentive to move in that direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis is an important piece of legislation. It\u2019s one step down the track to a fairer system of paying for our highway network. But if this coalition Government did as its previous National Government did\u2014that is, move to a philosophy of sweat the assets and minimise the investment in road maintenance, safety upgrades, and road improvements\u2014then we\u2019ll be left when they exit office with the same dilemma we faced in 2017 when we came in, and that is the need to significantly increase the funding for our roading networks and for alternative methods of transport, including rail, cycling, walking, and just getting around our country. We did a good job. We moved us forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis issue of RUC or the issue of electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids and how they contribute is now being addressed through this legislation, improved dramatically by the simple rebalance of the discount rate for plug-in hybrid vehicles. So thank you to my colleagues, thank you to the Labour Party and their commitment on the select committee. We, in Labour, support this bill through the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab544232321544c7ad0923bfa877c539\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab544232321544c7ad0923bfa877c539\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. Climate change is the single biggest issue facing us right now as a country, as a people, and as a planet, and the reality is that we need to work together and cooperate on a level we never have before in order to address this challenge. It\u2019s going to affect farmers, it\u2019s going to affect tradies, and it\u2019s going to affect our infrastructure if we don\u2019t take action now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EIf I told you that there was a way we could take action on climate change that not only didn\u2019t cost us money but it saved us money and it made a more productive and efficient transport system and a more productive and efficient way of living and doing business in New Zealand, I would think that Government parties would support that, because here\u2019s an opportunity to do something that\u2019s not just good for the climate but it actually, in the short term, saves us money, and in transport, it\u2019s precisely that. Everything we can and need to do for a more sustainable transport system that\u2019s going to be better for the climate saves New Zealanders money and it creates a more productive and efficient transport system and better cities, and yet the Government is doing the opposite, in almost every area of transport, of what is good for the climate and good for New Zealand. That\u2019s unfortunate, and this bill\u2014this is the second reading of this bill\u2014is a proposal that in the short term really goes in the opposite direction of what we need to do in terms of supporting more electric and low-emissions vehicles into New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ELow-emissions and electric vehicles are really a huge opportunity for New Zealand because so much of our electricity is renewable already. We\u2019re spending so much money on imported fossil fuels to run our vehicles, and we have such a vehicle-intensive transport system\u2014a private vehicle - intensive transport system. We\u2019re spending all this money on vehicles, plus the fuel to run them, and the fuel to run them is mostly generating energy-related carbon emissions, which is bad for the climate. So here\u2019s this win-win opportunity, but, unfortunately, what the Government is doing is simply taking away any incentive to switch to electric vehicles right at the time when we most need Government support and incentives in order to get that transition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe reason the bill does this\u2014and we heard it through the submissions. The other downside to this whole process has been that it\u2019s been incredibly short. It\u2019s been rushed. The select committee was given only nine days to announce submissions on the bill, to hear submissions, and to report back. The normal Parliament process is six months. Even four weeks would have allowed a better process, but we only got nine days, and in the very short time that the public had to submit on the bill, we got over 500 submissions. Now, I think we had like 36 hours for submissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe got over 500 submissions, and in the departmental report from the Ministry of Transport, it says that the main focus of submissions was advocating for battery electric vehicles being charged a lower road-user charge rate than what is proposed by the Government and that plug-in hybrids should be charged a lower rate. All of these submissions, the majority of these submissions\u2014if you look on page 14 of the departmental report, it says, \u201Cthe majority of these submissions agree that [electric vehicles] should contribute towards the cost of the transport system\u201D. However, the appropriate road-user charge rate for battery electric and plug-in hybrids \u201Cshould reflect their important role in reducing greenhouse gas emissions and addressing climate change concerns.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, what we\u2019re interested in here more than anything else is outcomes: what will the outcome of the policy be? When you combine the outcome of this policy with the outcome of removing the Clean Car Discount\u2014which was having a transformational impact on the vehicles coming into the country\u2014then the reality is we\u2019re going to import fewer electric vehicles in the next few years. That means that every extra higher-emissions, fossil-fuelled vehicle that we get in the country locks in 20 years of emissions, and not just 20 years of emissions but 20 more years of New Zealanders paying for overseas fossil fuels, rather than using cheaper, cleaner, renewable vehicles using electricity generated right here in New Zealand, which is good for our economy and good for consumers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo the reality is that the majority of the submissions were opposed to the proposal, even though they support road-user charges being applied to battery electric and plug-in hybrids. They support it, and there was a particularly strong submission from an industry group. We had, basically, the whole industry: the Automobile Association, the Motor Trade Association, the motor vehicle importers\u2019 association, the vehicle importers\u2014that\u2019s the second-hand vehicle and the new vehicle industry groups\u2014Drive Electric, and others. They had a big, joint submission that said, \u201CWe believe that the current planned [road-user charge] rates that will apply from 1 April [this year] on [battery electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids], creates a significant distortion between [road-user charges] and [fuel excise duty]. Reducing these RUC rates [was] requested\u201D\u2014so the rates in this bill were requested, and the Green Party supported their proposal that we reduce our battery electric rate to $60, and for plug-in hybrids, we advocated for $38. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, as it happened during this rushed process, if you read the select committee report, you would think that the Government was not going to amend the bill as introduced, and yet attached to the bill, it is amended, and it is amended to have a lower rate for plug-in hybrid vehicles, which is great. So, look, if one thing can be taken away from this, because the Government embraced this change of the lower rate of $38 rather than $52, which it was going to be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022872969aa58e343759b40fa3a85c363ef\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: $53. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022908a75418cb8486eae7409559758ac80\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: $53. Sorry, it\u2019s $53. So here, in clause 15(2), the amendment was made, even though the Government members of the committee said that they weren\u2019t supporting that change. They did vote unanimously to support it, and now the Minister of Transport is saying, \u201CHey, actually, I did want that. I did want the committee to consider options.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo, please, let that be a lesson to Government members of the select committee that they have a really important role to play in improving the legislation from the executive. You all\u2014Mr Speaker, I\u2019m not referring to you, but you all, in the Government\u2014didn\u2019t come here to rubber-stamp what the executive is doing. You\u2019re hearing from the public, you\u2019re hearing from industry, and you can make an informed call if that could help improve the executive\u2019s lawmaking, which happened in this case. So I really encourage members to take seriously the role of select committees in improving the legislation handed down by Ministers. You\u2019re not here at the beck and call of Ministers; you\u2019re here to hear from the public and make that law better, and, in this case, it has happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe Greens supported the amendment at the select committee, and all kudos to my Labour colleagues, who ensured that that amendment was in the version of the bill that was voted on by the select committee. So here we have a reduced rate now for plug-in hybrids, which is good, but the Greens still cannot support the bill, because we don\u2019t have the reduced rate for the battery electric vehicles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EYou know, everyone can talk about fairness until we\u2019re blue in the face, but the reality is\u2014this is very clear from the submitters\u2014that people who own electric vehicles are going to be paying almost twice as much as a comparable petrol car. To me, that\u2019s not fair, and that\u2019s what the majority of the submitters said. A reduced rate for battery electric vehicles would actually be fairer, and not only that. It does help, but like the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc2162fb62a54eea890341e68ec0d0c3\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got to fix the roads somehow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282e3baf35ae04da081d7489d6f77679e\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Take the freight off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202a1fcd05ee649d986a9fc6fcae6b91d\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: There are ways to ensure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd826d8031d8429bb2053ef0fa389415\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: And put it where? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211defcfd6cb44f929767e289e159a39c\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that they\u2019re\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299808ba325434166afbb260bae6582d8\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Put it on trains. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264cb4126cfcb47cd93132451e705152a\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I\u2019m getting a little bit derailed here by the debate next to me, which is that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a95d15bdbd524c72b637ae53a997a18e\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CDerailed\u201D\u2014well done. I see that\u2014I see that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266ab8b471d2a4309814bd0de9435eecb\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Members opposite should consider whether or not we have a transport system that is user-pays, because, at the moment, it\u2019s not, and this was also clear. I\u2019d call the attention of the Government members to this lovely flow chart on page 2 of the departmental report, which makes it very clear that road-user charges and fuel excise duty\u2014petrol tax\u2014do not pay for the total cost of the roads. There\u2019s both massive taxpayer money going into highways and there\u2019s ratepayer money going into local roads, and so it\u2019s not a user-pays system, firstly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESecondly, the more important thing is: are we going to get the transition to the electric vehicles that we desperately need, because every year that we don\u2019t, it\u2019s going to cost New Zealand more. It costs New Zealand at every stage. All of our dairy exports do not cover the cost of our vehicle and our fuel imports annually. Everything we can do to reduce that fuel bill now means more money in the pockets of New Zealanders, more money in New Zealand, and, at that same time, it\u2019s really essential and necessary for the climate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWhat we need to do here\u2014everyone\u2014is think past the debate of the last century and the last few decades, and start thinking about the present and the future: how we can actually get outcomes-focused policy that\u2019s going to be effective. If there\u2019s one thing that members opposite cannot deny, it\u2019s that the Clean Car Discount got outcomes for New\u00A0Zealand, and all this rhetoric and slang about tradies and farmers\u2014it\u2019s rubbish. The vast majority of the fees were paid by high-income people, paid by businesses, and paid by people in urban areas. So if farmers need the urban places to pull their weight, that\u2019s what the Clean Car Discount did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u00228ed254bcd9414ab49762db33dbfc9c9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ed254bcd9414ab49762db33dbfc9c9d\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I endorse a few of the\u00A0things\u2014to the surprise of this House, potentially\u2014of the previous speaker, the Hon\u00A0Julie\u00A0Anne Genter. I do agree that our road budget is not being a user pays and is too highly subsidised, hence why I was quite glad to be in the Transport and Infrastructure Committee hearing about a discount that reflects real use and costs contributing to the national road transport fund, based on what the actual damage of a car, vehicle, truck, type of vehicle, type of fuel is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003ENow, the thing is we\u2019ve heard that it was a rushed select committee, and it was a decent hearing of the evidence, I thought. We heard from over 500 submitters and, as the previous speaker has said, a few industry organisations as well. I must say I heard a lot of support for paying our way. Many people who submitted said that they feel that it is time; that this has been a well-signalled transition; that we are going to have two months, which is long enough for people to get their head around it; and that 2 percent has been well matched. Out of the 50 cars on the road, 49 also feel like it is time to have the last one in 50 pay their way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EThe 50 percent discount, people should know, is based on the road-user charge (RUC) of $76 per 1,000 kilometres. Now, a 30 percent discount was seen by some submitters as not fair, but that is because, in my understanding of the evidence, they were measuring that against the fuel excise duty paid by petrol vehicles. Now, we could have a discussion, but I don\u2019t think we will right today, about whether everybody is paying their fair share for the road, and if there is a concern about polluters paying their way, perhaps the Green member who spoke before would like to address that everybody using the road pays their way. I think freight transport has been paying a fair share. The damage that they cause means that they are paying a higher rate for their RUC, unlike under-3.5 tonne vehicles, which pay between $1 and $3 out of their road-user contribution towards roads damage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eb02f634bfd4f30a074d07566f37821\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223221246791124b3fb77de11631f86a30\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I hear \u201Crubbish\u201D from the member Damien O\u2019Connor, but I must say that wasn\u2019t the information, despite his misgivings of the officials, that the select committee heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003ENow, I also think, Damien O\u2019Connor, you did have a good point in your speech before: the admin fee needs to be looked at. There are many ways in which we could do this, and going forward, I hope that the Government makes steps towards having a broad-based and fair coverage for every road user through a RUC scheme. Because the way it is being measured currently, off the fuel excise duty, although it was good for its time, is well past its use by date and it needs to be reviewed. As a resident of the great city of Tauranga\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2b87c87633a4ad3888cc94ecb2b7b44\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Great place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022632c2671b41a4b2cbf842d59c98ca0b4\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: It is a great place, Tom Rutherford. We have two of the three toll roads in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e1a103edb52406da2eb075bfc43ee07\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Toll-ranga!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285d5d2e7eae5442cbbe2b0a20520a534\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: Tauranga\u2014yeah. I understand that many people around the country haven\u2019t had the experience of using a toll road in their driving life. Well, I can confirm, as a resident who uses one or two regularly, that it is a seamless experience, on a beautiful road, especially the Eastern Link, and when it comes to paying for our use of that road, we get an automatic bill. If you sign up, as most residents do, to the tolling portal on the internet, you get an invoice at the end of the month and it\u2019s paid very seamlessly. I realise that a large part of the cost that comes about through the tolling scheme is through recouping from people who have missed their payment, but I think the bulk of New Zealand, as the bulk of the people of Tauranga are currently registered, will understand how easy it is to actually pay a user-pays fee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EI commend this bill to the House despite the need for having more money from the users of a service paying for it. I think that it is about time that every user of the road pays their fair way. I thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u002272334ce4700848c4a9357bfd596b0788\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272334ce4700848c4a9357bfd596b0788\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First): \u003C/span\u003EI\u2019m pleased to rise to support this Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill. Actually, I would note that this is the first bill to come from the 54th Parliament and be reported back to the 54th Parliament, so I\u2019m quite pleased to have been involved in that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s about road-user charge (RUC)\u2014what is RUC? RUC, effectively, is a charge for the access to and the use of the roading system. What it is not is a charge for carbon emissions, and we\u2019ve seen the sort of interplay between them. That is dealt with in another way, through the emissions trading scheme (ETS) cost that is applied to fuels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ELight electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHVs) were always liable for RUC. What has been happened, though, is they haven\u2019t been paying RUC because there\u2019s been a specific exemption. Why was that exemption there? That exemption was there to incentivise the uptake of those vehicles until they got to about 2 percent, and that\u2019s where we\u2019ve got to. We\u2019re at 2 percent now, so now that is coming off. This has been signalled for a long time. It has been signalled that it was going to drop off at the end of next week\u201431 March, that the charge would start to apply and the exemption would end. So if this bill were not introduced, what would happen is that EVs and PHVs\u2014light EVs, light PHVs\u2014would all be paying the full RUC right from the beginning, so we had to do something about that if we weren\u2019t going to apply that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ELook, it was done at pace, and we\u2019ve heard from the member opposite, from the Hon\u00A0Julie Anne Genter, that it was done at pace, and maybe we should have taken six months. Well, I don\u2019t think either side can really beat each other up too much about that. You could say that the last Government should have done something about it, because if you\u2019re going to do it in six months, if I count back six months, it would have been September, which, by my calculation, is before the election. That wasn\u2019t done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EYou could say, \u201CWell, this side of the House could have done it quicker.\u201D, but, by crikey, we\u2019ve been doing all kinds of different pieces of work, and it\u2019s been a very, very busy schedule. So, look, we were left in this situation where this had to be done at pace, and it was. Since the first reading on Tuesday a fortnight ago\u2014so a fortnight ago today\u2014it was reported back to the House on Thursday last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EYou will note the dissenting views from Labour and the Greens around that timing issue, but, look, that\u2019s the reality of it. We were put with the work we had to do and we did it. The timetable was tight. We heard from submitters Friday before last. We dealt with the officials\u2019 feedback, drafting, and final decisions by Zoom, because the House wasn\u2019t sitting. That did cause us to make one slight whoopsie there, but that\u2019s OK; we\u2019ve ended up in the right place, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ELook, I want to thank everybody for the work done in a tight timetable. It involved some late hours. I want to thank the members and the alternate members from both sides of the House for their participation. I want to thank the Office of the Clerk who worked very, very hard on this, and the parliamentary drafting office and also the Ministry of Transport and the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA), who provided us with some great information and worked very, very hard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a576282f08434ed48f7cb1c5004cb256\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Well chaired, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fc0ade965384d378d3cc2cf57967955\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, thank you very much. Thank you very much, Mark Patterson. Look, I especially want to thank the 518 people and organisations that made submissions in a very short period of time. They had less than 48 hours to make submissions, but they did it. I was really, really impressed they did it, and they were quality submissions too. We had 19 who appeared the following day on that Friday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESubmitters were almost entirely owners of electric vehicles, PHVs, or industry organisations, so it wasn\u2019t like the people who own petrol vehicles were making submissions. It was the owners of PHVs and EVs who were making submissions, and, almost without exception\u2014certainly those that we heard\u2014they all said, \u201CWe should be paying a share. We should be paying towards the use and maintenance of the roads.\u201D The only argument was about how much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe EVs\u2014I\u2019ll deal with that one first. Several submitters noted that the RUC per distance travelled\u2014and you\u2019ve heard that again from across the House there\u2014would actually be, while it\u2019s the same as the light diesel vehicle, it\u2019s actually higher than the average light petrol vehicle. The reason for that is that since the RUC level was set, petrol vehicles have got more efficient. So that\u2019s a good thing, but what it does mean is that the petrol vehicle is actually going to be paying slightly less on average than the RUC. And if the RUC is applied to EVs, they\u2019re paying slightly more than that for the moment, for the same distance travelled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo you could consider that to be a good thing, because it means we\u2019ve got less emissions, less petrol being used by our petrol fleet, which, of course, is the bulk of the fleet. We did consider this. The advice we got from officials was that this would have been within the legislative scope but not within the policy scope of what we were presented with. Despite the Greens, in particular, here\u2014the alternative view that they\u2019ve put in the report back\u2014when we talked about whether we would actually advance this idea within the Transport and Infrastructure Committee deliberations, nobody wanted to do so\u2014nobody wanted to do so. So the opportunity was there to raise it\u2014probably not to win it, but the opportunity was there and it was not taken, not by the red party, not by the Green Party. So I think that is important that you know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo moving on to PHVs: we\u2019re talking here about a very small proportion of the vehicle fleet\u2014about 30,000 to 40,000 vehicles out of 4.5 million vehicles in the fleet. That\u2019s about two-thirds of 1 percent of the entire vehicle fleet. The rate that we applied to them\u2014the discount rate that we applied to them\u2014was a specific issue that the Minister asked us to consider, and we\u2019ve had pointed out to us across the House that we should have considered it and we did. We thought very carefully about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe issue is that PHVs, of course, use both petrol, so they pay the fuel excise duty, and they will pay RUC through the battery use. The question we\u2019ve got there is we didn\u2019t\u2014and this is the important part of the bill\u2014want them to be ending up, essentially, being double-taxed, paying for both at the full rate for the full distance that they travelled. That would have been unfair to PHV vehicles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo the question, then, is: what is the discount rate? We heard lots of submitters, and they were all arguing for all kinds of different ways of administering it, because every single vehicle is going to be different and used in a different way. There\u2019ll be vehicles which are used in urban environments, which are largely using battery. There\u2019ll be vehicles which are older, so their batteries have lower capacity, so they\u2019re more likely to be using petrol more often. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo how do you end up with a fair system? Some people argue for doing it on the basis of the age of the vehicle. Some people went even further and said you should do it by the individual circumstances of the vehicle, but you\u2019ve got to make it administratively efficient; you can\u2019t do it in any other way. So, really, what it came down to is what is a fair, balanced approach in terms of the discount rate that we chose. Well, that was, I think, well reflected in our select committee commentary, although the select committee commentary\u2014and, as we\u2019ve heard, the actual rate that was applied is slightly different because we didn\u2019t get everything 100 percent right there, but never mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ELabour started consulting a couple of years ago on a 20 percent discount. The bill, as introduced, said a 30 percent discount, and that really was saying that we think it\u2019s 20, but because of the variation of the fleet, maybe we\u2019ll be conservative; we\u2019ll make it 30. We kind of reported back somewhat accidentally at 50 percent, and that is what Cabinet has agreed at 50 percent, and I think it\u2019s a very, very good outcome. I think you could argue for anything between 30 percent and 50 percent. But the really interesting bit that we found when we asked officials about this, they found a European study, and that European study of 9,000 PHVs indicated an average of 4.1 to 4.4 litres of petrol per 100\u00A0kilometres, and that\u2019s equivalent to a 50 percent discount, so that doesn\u2019t seem an unfair outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo I think the other point to make in terms of RUC is that whatever you do, it\u2019s going to be unfair to somebody, and we need to make sure that we move to something which is fairer, and that is a RUC system right across the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI want to finish by addressing a couple of other issues which arose in the bill or during submissions and consideration. First of all, you\u2019ve already heard from the Minister that there\u2019s a two-month transition period. That is going to be quite challenging, because a lot of people\u2014EV owners, PHV owners\u2014are not going to be familiar with the RUC system; I acknowledge I\u2019ve not ever been involved directly in the RUC system, and I\u2019d imagine most of those vehicle owners won\u2019t have been, and they\u2019re going to need to be educated to get involved in that system and to know what they\u2019re supposed to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe next point to make is that the bill exempts light EVs under 1,000 kilograms. If you look at the vehicles that are around, virtually there is no car that I can see that\u2019s a proper-looking car that actually is under 1,000 kilograms, so you\u2019re talking about motorbikes and light vehicles of that nature. It also makes clear that light all-terrain vehicles are also going to be exempt, because they\u2019re generally used off road. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from some of the submitters that the RUC level might disincentivise the uptake of EVs, and, in the short term, that may be true, but if we move to RUC relatively quickly, it\u2019s not going to be a big issue. The issue is much more the rate that you apply through the ETS for the ETS charge on fuel, petrol, or diesel. Also, there are other more significant issues there, not only the ETS running costs, environmental outcomes, and, of course, the cost of buying the vehicle in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWe had a bit of discussion about weight, but it\u2019s very clear that under 3.5 tonnes, the impact of weight on the road is not particularly significant, and that only 1 percent of the cost of fuel actually relates to weight. The rest is all about access and about the use of the roads and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe final point I want to make, in the last few seconds that I\u2019ve got available, is those issues which the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor raised around RUC administrative costs\u2014those are really important ones, and that is something which we think is really, really important that NZTA and the Government pays a lot of attention to dealing with. Those costs are too high, especially if you buy your RUC in small parcels. They\u2019re going to be likely to be regressive. They\u2019re largely made up of bank charges and NZTA overheads, and so they do need to be addressed and got down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EAgain, I want to thank everybody who\u2019s been involved in bringing the bill to this point and to commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00220a81e2e379f54a1cbfda09c34afcebde\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a81e2e379f54a1cbfda09c34afcebde\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call, I understand\u2014Scott Willis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc6178c51e4941728325da884782f15a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc6178c51e4941728325da884782f15a\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. To be clear, the Minister and his merry hand of free-market preachers and adherents to the prosperity gospel seem to want to drive to the Rapture in their SUVs, because the Minister can\u2019t abide electric vehicles (EVs), and God forbid travelling on public transport. There\u2019s nothing like a thirst for fossil fuels to power the end times, is there? Is it because the Minister is awaiting the Rapture that he can\u2019t be bothered with earthly details like good legislation, like climate initiatives, like a livable planet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThis Government cancelled the Inter-island Resilient Connection with no plan B for safe ferry travel across Cook Strait. The Government\u2019s killed off light rail for T\u0101maki-makau-rau, stopped Wellington moving, and supported road speed increases which will increase fatalities on our roads, so, no, they haven\u2019t started. They want to get started on increasing fatalities on our roads\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8dd0b13aec349dcb0f08fdd7a03ba9b\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. As much as we\u2019re enjoying the speech, I haven\u2019t yet heard one reference to the bill at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269e7292767d747b6af6f46f8736f7c87\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just to note that relevance is the role of the Speaker\u2014that\u2019s me. The member may continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022225362bc238f4ef18ce95fade3ba65f7\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. We do need road-user charges and fuel excise duty to help pay for the upkeep of New Zealand roads\u2014that\u2019s true. But the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, driven through urgency, has shown us the danger of speed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0423e61457e45e6bc79794742f1bd5d\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s off track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c311557776af4005b769b0a472cea2da\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Speed in this legislative space makes for mistakes\u2014mistakes that the member opposite has admitted\u2014and poor policy. Mistakes that have fallen well this time, but it\u2019s a blitzkrieg of destruction which only really serves the fossil fuel sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI read in National\u2019s electrifying New Zealand policy that \u201CNational wants a future where buses and trains are powered by clean electricity, where we go on holiday in cars powered by clean electricity,\u201D and yet what we see is far from the rhetoric. Forget buses and trains, forget ferries, all National has done is work to disincentivise EVs and ignore the rest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThe Better New Zealand Trust submission stated: \u201CTo have any chance of meeting our climate goals the Govt must reduce \u2026 fossil fuels by all means possible.\u201D And we\u2019ve heard submitters\u2019 extensive concerns about this bill through the select committee process\u2014the foreshortened select committee process. The Motor Industry Association talked about the timing for the removal of the road-user charges exemption for light vehicles on 1 April so soon after the repeal of the Clean Car Discount. And their second concern was about the equity of road tax, regardless of vehicle engine type or motor power and the tax system used. They argued that \u201CMotorists deserve to contribute equitably [for] their fair share for roading costs.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ESo, yesterday, the rewiring New Zealand report on Electric Homes: The energy, economic, and economic opportunity of electrifying New Zealand\u2019s homes and cars was released. I just had a meeting with Mike Casey and co. It tells us what we already know. In a petrol vehicle, only about 16 percent to 25 percent of the energy in petrol is turned into motion. Most of this energy is lost as waste. In an electric vehicle, 87 to 91 percent of the electricity it receives is converted into motion at the wheels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThis Government is simply pulling the RUC on electrifying land transport. There\u2019s worse. This is simply bad for our rural communities. This is so bad for our rural communities. We know that rural people drive three times further than urban people and drive on the worst roads. I know where Mark lives. We could do so much better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207da32b3502e440283dee62583d44e32\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: And could the member come back to the bill and not worry about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee2a6bbb516a49ebb4a8bcfdfe368154\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Think about the Finnish example, where RUCs are based on the roads you drive on. Poor quality roads cost less in road-user charges than urban highways with overbridges. All our rural people who drive EVs are now being doubly punished\u2014punished for driving an EV and subsidising diesel fossil fuel vehicles, punished for paying for the privilege of driving on the worst roads in Aotearoa, and subsidising the motorways. This bill is a disaster that comes from speed. We can do so much better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223697b630932c480babc55b41bd5252e2\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s get back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b5a8a2c1d4a43829e57b827439d5d5a\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s get back on track, not back on baccy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022d53f007eb1a94e88a643047a2d9b955e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d53f007eb1a94e88a643047a2d9b955e\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 ki t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou. E t\u016B ana au ki te waha i \u0101 te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori anga m\u014D t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire, e mea nei te turaki i ng\u0101 \u014Dh\u0101ki i puta i te K\u0101wanatanga \u014D mua kia whakaheke iho te putanga atu o ng\u0101 paihana patu nei i te taiao me te whakam\u0101m\u0101 ake i ng\u0101 huarahi e pai ai te tiki atu i te electric vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Speaker, and everyone here in the House today, salutations to you all. I stand to present Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2019s aspirations for this bill, to demolish the oath set down by the previous Government to decrease the dissemination of pollution on the environment and to ease the way in which we can retrieve electric vehicles.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori have challenged the direction and vision of this Government, of course. And, you know, the real question is: what is the vision? The vision, the direction that the Government is intending for us. It\u2019s clear that the direction of this Government is towards profit and capitalism. So, whilst their vision is fine, we must now ask ourselves: profit, capitalism\u2014but at what cost, and to what expense?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EHe m\u0101rakerake te kite atu ko te taiao me te whenua te utu\u2014so, right now, it is evident to see that it is te taiao, our environment and the land, that will bear the brunt of the cost. The amendment to this bill is reflective of a Government that prioritises profit over the environment. Since the beginning of this Government\u2019s term in Parliament, we have seen the prioritisation of profit across various bills, including the repeal of the regional fuel tax and the current Resource Management Act amendment bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI now stand to discuss the road-user charges amendments. Let me remind the House, and, in particular, t\u0113nei taha\u2014and particularly the members opposite us\u2014that the bill was introduced as an incentive\u2014an incentive\u2014not a disincentive; an incentive for our communities to transition from vehicles reliant on fossil fuels to electric vehicles instead. By making it cheaper for an electric vehicle user to use our roads, it was made more accessible and, in essence, a legitimate option for our people to consider\u2014something that would most likely have missed the consideration of our colleagues across the room.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EBy introducing road-user charges, we make it less appealing and less realistic for people when faced with the choice between vehicles that run on unsustainable fuel sources and vehicles that run from a renewable energy source. This is a conversation that for us, for M\u0101ori, we often don\u2019t get the chance to engage with. Conversations around electric vehicles or renewable energy, and the chance to have our own electric vehicles, is often exclusive of our communities\u2014our communities that live rurally, on their whenua, by their marae, or urban communities that often survive and disconnect from their whenua, their marae, and their iwi and hap\u016B bases. We, as M\u0101ori, are left out, yet again, or, indeed, cut out. So I stand here to enter into the conversation to prove to our people that we have every right to be here, and that while these kaupapa seem far away from our te ao M\u0101ori, our reality, all of these bills in fact do impact us, do impact our people. They work as ways to segregate us from the rest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo when we consider the amendment to this bill in the context of climate change, which we must do\u2014we must consider our climate and the impact we as a nation have on our whenua\u2014it is clear that previous efforts made to support the reduction in emissions, to create accessibility to clean technology, and create sustainable public and private transport, are not prioritised by the current Government. In\u0101 k\u0113 te wero. [That indeed is the challenge.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI question those sitting on the other side of the House: how will the emissions reduction plan, the national adaptation plan, the carbon-neutral Government programme, the Climate Emergency Response Fund, be impacted by this change? Again, another vision, another amendment to another bill where profit is prioritised at the expense of te taiao and the whenua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EWhen we actually look to the so-called profit and ineffective planning and management from the current Government, it has forced them into a position where a $24\u00A0million pothole in their Budget has meant that those who use electric vehicles will have to foot the bill. I\u2019m sure that over the short time the Government has been in term, they\u2019ve struggled to deliver their promises, when they realise that repealing and amending all of these bills and promising tax cuts to the people has only meant that the money lost from that particular revenue stream will now have to be sourced elsewhere. N\u0101 ka taka te utu ki te marea, \u0101 ko te ao M\u0101ori ka pani ki waho. [And so the cost will fall on the people, and the M\u0101ori culture will be cast out.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u002283b34443a47d49c191659004a8183dca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283b34443a47d49c191659004a8183dca\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to proudly support this bill because we\u2019re actually a Government that was faced with a problem and we had to fix it. The previous Government hadn\u2019t gotten around to actually solving the problem of what was going to happen when the electric vehicle (EV) subsidies finished and, suddenly, they were going to go to 76c. That\u2019s where they were going to sit. According to the other side, that seemed, obviously, to be the solution: leave them at 76c. So we inherited this problem, and we have solved it. We\u2019ve put a bill together, which is a transition bill, to allow for plug-in electric hybrids to receive a discounted rate because they use two sources of power, and also for EVs to contribute something to the roads that they drive on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EIt was interesting, the submitters we received\u2014and thank you to the submitters. Yes, they didn\u2019t have much time, but the reason there was not much time is that we had to get a solution so this could be enacted by the 1 April, and that\u2019s what we did. This is why we\u2019re in this position. They also said, \u201CWe\u2019re happy to contribute towards maintaining the roads.\u201D Well, that\u2019s great. I applaud them for that, particularly as somebody who\u2019s had to drive around the roads of Northland, which have suffered through lack of maintenance from the previous Government, and had to put up with extra potholes, and the member opposite\u2014Damien\u2014would have had to dodge them on his motorbike. Because of that, it\u2019s great to suddenly have an opportunity to have more income to actually help fix the roads, because people using the roads should help pay for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EThe reason that this is only a transition is because we\u2019re going to be moving to a fairer system, as more and more people buy EVs\u2014and they will, because the price of EVs, surprise, surprise, is coming down. So there\u2019s no need for us to actually subsidise people who can afford to buy them themselves, right? So we\u2019ve got to transition to a system whereby you don\u2019t fund the roading maintenance and building of new roads\u2014you don\u2019t fund it through the energy source; you fund it through weight and distance travelled, which is a fair system. That is what we\u2019ve got to move towards\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224161f376fe9b44628f9096061455592a\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s the incentive to be more efficient?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222313e63c59d64147b01037ec4809f997\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and that is the direction. The incentive is there, because, actually, with an electric vehicle, it is cheaper to run\u2014they\u2019re actually cheaper to run than a petrol vehicle and a diesel vehicle. Believe me, I know\u2014I drive a diesel vehicle and pay plenty for the road-user charges going around. So I commend the Government for actually acting on this and getting a solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to say, finally, that the people of Northland will really be very happy to finally have a bit more money spent on the roads so that we can have better roads to drive on, and the other rural people in New Zealand the same, right. That\u2019s really, really important. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaa88ee6e778441f88ecfb91643852b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaa88ee6e778441f88ecfb91643852b0\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, if you\u2019ll bear with me, I am going to explain some of the changes that have occurred in this bill. Because there were a number of changes which Government members are very keen on in this reading that they weren\u2019t so keen on in the select committee room\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202eac4bc375e4361aa71559caba05217\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well we voted for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4c5bad1153640918f9372e5a299e5d5\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: The member opposite\u2014Tom Rutherford\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdc961230ee542649da26e9ecab8c5c0\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s from Hamilton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275d28558a29a419faf62d962a09d718c\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014he says \u201CWe voted for them\u201D. He\u2019s not from Hamilton, and he says \u201CWe voted for them\u201D. Actually, that wasn\u2019t the case and I will explain that for the House\u2019s record, if you\u2019ll bear with me. But, Mr Speaker, what I first want to do is to tell you why the amendment that the Transport and Infrastructure Committee made is important and to explain it for the record so there is no confusion about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis was inserted at the select committee stage. The select committee instructed the Parliamentary Counsel Office (PCO) to develop an amendment to the bill as proposed by the Minister\u2014that was supported by a bare majority of members\u2014that changed the discount rate for PHEVs, or for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. That was because a 2022\u00A0study of 9,000 plug-in hybrid EVs in Europe suggested an average fuel consumption of 4\u00A0to 4.4 litres of petrol per 100 kilometres. That\u2019s relevant because the average fuel consumption of light petrol vehicles in New Zealand is around 8.1 litres per 100\u00A0kilometres, and those rates are the rates that the select committee heard from officials from Waka Kotahi should be taken into account when designing the discounts for plug-in hybrid vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhen the select committee heard evidence from the 518 interested groups and individuals who submitted on the bill, it was clear\u2014and in further advice from Waka Kotahi\u2014that the evidence for what the discount rate should be was limited. But that European study supported a 50 percent discount instead of a 30 percent discount, and that\u2019s why PCO was asked to draft an amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EAt the time the committee came to vote on the report, the report is drafted as if the 30\u00A0percent discount was the one that would come back to the House at committee stage. But that is not the bill that we are debating now. So the select committee\u2019s report does not record the majority\u2014well, the unanimous\u2014vote that then occurred to support the 50\u00A0percent discount. So anyone looking through the records will see that the select committee\u2019s report treats it as if it was a 30 percent discount, whereas the Labour amendment that was put up and drafted by PCO for 50 percent discount was the one that is supported and now the Minister has confirmed will be supported at committee stage. So it is Labour\u2019s position that we consider that a 50 percent discount in the road-user charge rate would be better reflective of the relative efficiency of plug-in hybrid EVs compared to petrol vehicles, and we recommended amending the clause because of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo that is how, procedurally, we have got here. I think it is a good change and I\u2019m glad that the Minister has accepted the change from the select committee. He asked the select committee to consider that particular point, and we did have some really good cross-partisan discussion about how to make this rate an effective thing for PHEV drivers. Because drivers and users have already invested in their cars. This is not a decision that only affects future purchases and incentives on users; this is actually a decision which makes someone\u2019s investment in their personal car\u2014or their investment in their business if they are someone like a taxi driver or an Uber\u2014significantly different about the way that the costs will fall out for that person. So we heard from a number of submitters who drove PHEVs themselves that they would need to do things like hang up the keys on their PHEV because they wouldn\u2019t be able to operate that as a taxi, or to change the way that they were using their car and they would use it less if that rate was applied. So I\u2019m glad that we have made that change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis should be viewed alongside the removal of the Clean Car Discount. That was something that the committee heard evidence on being a very effective tool of incentivising the uptake of plug-in hybrid vehicles, but that that went along with the policy for plug-in hybrid vehicles not to pay user charges. Those two things together would have otherwise been removed, and so there would have been a sort of double change for PHEV users that we didn\u2019t think was appropriate, and that\u2019s why we proposed the amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo I want to thank my fellow committee members, despite it being a very short submission period, that was, I think, an example of committees being able to work together well. That committee was chaired by Andy Foster in a way that allowed discussion around this particular point and on the point of how much subsidy should be applied to EVs. These are technical pieces of legislation; we needed a lot of advice from the officials from Waka Kotahi and the transport ministry, and I thank those officials who engaged with us in what was a very, very quick time frame for them to need to turn around reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThat said, it was very difficult for the committee to consider what the policy change was in the context of dumping the Clean Car Discount and the Government\u2019s priorities on emissions, and, further, this idea that all cars would be moving towards road-user charges and the effect of this interim change on that broader change when we had no time frame for that. Those are things that should have been, and could have been, worked through by what was, essentially, a very good cross-partisan committee that was engaging in the policy detail; it was engaging with the technical advice that we were receiving and was asking good questions of submitters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt is there that this House should be able to get into the detail of legislation and it is a casualty of the urgency process when committees are not able to do that fully, and engaging with something which has been called a \u201Ctransitional process\u201D. This will not be a transitional process that will be resolved quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EA transitional process\u2014for the benefit of the Government members who have made these submissions today\u2014would have been to extend this legislation, because this legislation had been extended several times. That should have been the policy that we examined it against: extending the exemption for EVs and PHEVs, as has been Government previously\u2014the appropriate thing to compare this change to. Instead, we were being asked to compare it as if it would not continue at all, and that was not the right policy equivalent to be making at the select committee time. But we were doing that because we were under time pressure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EJust speaking a little bit to the thanks to the submitters. I, too, joined with my other fellow committee members in thanking the submitters who made submissions in what was, essentially, a day to put together those submissions\u2014518 of them took the time to do that and they were technical submissions. They included a breakdown of the numbers and their projections about how not only this policy decision that the Government is taking would affect users now but users in the future. I believe that the numbers that the submitters provided us with also influenced and helped the advice that we were receiving from officials who were working under a very short time frame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThat goes, again, to the need to prioritise these pieces of technical legislation through select committee stages. It is useful for this House to have those submissions, it is useful for the officials to be able to engage with it, and it is useful for parliamentarians to appreciate what policy choices we\u2019re being asked to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBecause, not to bang on about this process, but it is not right that we are in this position of using a nine-day select committee process because the previous Government delayed it. We are in this process because this Government did not prioritise this on their legislative agenda. If this had been ready for first reading earlier in the process, the select committee would have been able to undertake a four-week select committee inquiry or they would have been able to extend this legislation while we were making these decisions. Using the length of the select committee process could have been an ordinary one, and that would have helped this House make reasonable and rational and cross-partisan decisions about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important that we acknowledge what we\u2019re doing here. We are supporting this bill because we do need to make sure that people are paying their fair share on our roads. But what \u201Cfair\u201D is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e07a881967b4e84ae674dc394e6be70\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Cover up your own inaction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022638d3b3dff244ae4ab6b3fa4a14e27f9\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014when we\u2019re\u2014I hear from the other side \u201Cto cover up our own inaction\u201D. I\u2019ve just explained that it is, in fact, the Government\u2019s prerogative to use urgency, but I can help the new member with understanding Government processes around urgency a little bit later on. He can meet me down in the select committee room and I can school him again on the use of Standing Orders, as I did last week. But, you know, I\u2019ll help him along then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBut for this reading, we do support this bill. There is change needed, but the policy we should have been considering is how to appropriately take into account emissions and the environmental considerations that go alongside those considerations like the Clean Car Discount which have been removed. If a Labour Government had been making these kinds of changes, we would have done that alongside the Clean Car Discount. We would have been protecting people\u2019s ability to choose better options for the environment, and that\u2019s why we need to be able to really get into the detail in the select committee discussions and understand what\u2019s being chosen between.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbf0413645fa4bae84def8672154ba89\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Had your chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238ed5a242d5f412f8fd963fb87d458b3\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I hear from the other side that we had our chance. I did have my chance in the committee and I used it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022f49d7b0cf9ae41ee82f8d0ff0879b270\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f49d7b0cf9ae41ee82f8d0ff0879b270\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr\u00A0Speaker. I just want to commend the previous member, Arena Williams, for her contribution both in the House and on the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, amongst all the members that contributed on the select committee process that we have been on over the last couple of weeks. It was an interesting process, no doubt. There were some decisions made and some challenges that we faced on the select committee, but, ultimately, what we are reporting back to the House is a pragmatic approach: those that use it should pay for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ENow, what we\u2019re talking about, here, are the contributions that people should make to the upkeep and maintenance of our roads in New Zealand. In the electorate that I\u2019m fortunate enough to represent, the Bay of Plenty, without a doubt\u2014without a doubt\u2014putting the cost of living to the side for a moment, the biggest issue facing the Bay of Plenty is transport. It\u2019s transport, without a doubt. Let\u2019s have a look at it: two main State highways, in our community, that are fundamentally way behind where they should be in 2024. Start with State Highway 2, the Takitimu North Link. Stage 1 is currently being progressed. State Highway 2, Takitimu northern link\u2014it\u2019s currently being progressed. That programme and that State highway was consented and ready to go in 2017. Cancelled, delayed, pared back by the previous Government\u2014now being delivered by National. The second, stage 2, will be as well\u2014all the way through to \u014Cmokoroa, servicing the community of the wider Bay of Plenty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThe second is State Highway 29, over the Kaimai Ranges, a really vital network that connects the city of Tauranga with the golden triangle of Waikato and Auckland. The reason I bring up those two key State highway networks in relation to this bill is that it is only fair that those people that use the roading network in New Zealand pay their fair share towards its upkeep and its maintenance. That\u2019s what this bill proposes to do. The Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill amends the road-user charges (RUC) regulations to add a new vehicle type, PHEVs\u2014plug-in hybrid electric vehicles\u2014and amends the road-user charges rates regulations to apply a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000 kilometres for plug-in hybrids. Had we done nothing, come next week, every single vehicle on the road would have paid the $76 dollars\u2014$76 per 1,000\u00A0kilometres. Simply kicking the can down the road on this issue wasn\u2019t feasible for us to do. On this side of the House, rather than just talking about it, we\u2019re actually going to action and deliver it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EI would note some comments made, both by the Minister of Transport and some of my colleagues, around action that the previous Government took. In 2022, they looked into proposed options for the Government to look into what may be an equitable system to move forward with. They proposed, at that time, that plug-in hybrids pay a reduced RUC rate of 20 percent less than EVs. Yet, after going out, proposing that, talking about it, two years down the track, nothing happened\u2014nothing happened. They went out with a proposal of 20 percent reduced and then nothing. Radio silence. Absolute silence on the issue. And now they have the fortitude to front up and complain and say, \u201CYou\u2019re rushing us.\u201D Well, let\u2019s just say, you had two years where you proposed and talked about it and delivered absolutely zilch. Absolutely nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233f26e5c6c0a4c3589af45f717af37c4\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s trade mark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bad42e24c29b4b8a80f085b13b6daadd\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s trade mark. It is trade mark, Sam, in the sense that talking about it is really good, but the actual delivery is rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ESo, on this side, we listened to the submissions that came through the select committee. It was great to do it with my colleagues across the House, where we had some really robust and engaging discussions around the submissions we received. Now, in that process, we received 518 submissions from a variety of individuals, organisations, and different groups. And the vast majority of the submitters expressed a really clear sentiment that both EVs and plug-in hybrids should pay their fair share to the upkeep and maintenance of our roads. Submitters expressed support for several parts of the bill, including the exclusion of light EVs, a two-month transition period so people can get their vehicles up to scratch, and the expanded definition of all-terrain vehicles (ATVs).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EI want to highlight that part in particular, because we haven\u2019t actually talked about that bit from any of our speakers so far. And what I\u2019m getting at is, firstly, we\u2019re excluding light EVs, so anything weighing 1 tonne or less, which includes vehicles like electric motorcycles. The bill also includes an automatic exemption for all-terrain electric vehicles weighing 1 tonne or less. This acknowledges that electric ATVs weighing 3.5\u00A0tonnes or less are currently entitled to an exemption on application if they are used almost exclusively off road. Let\u2019s look at that differentiation there: off road versus on road and what\u2019s fair around the maintenance and upkeep and what they contribute. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve talked about removing them and providing them the exemption.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThe bill also amends the definition of \u201CATVs\u201D to include electric ATVs. Heavy EVs weighing more than 3.5 tonnes are exempt from RUCs until 31 December 2025. The reason I bring that up is it comes back to the crux of why we\u2019ve proposed this bill, and why the Minister\u2019s brought it to the House, why we opened for the select committee process, and why we\u2019re here now debating it at its second reading. And it simply is: if you use the roads, you should pay your fair share to contribute to the upkeep and the maintenance of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EAnd the change that has been talked about by members opposite, where we initially are consulted on $53 to 1,000 kilometres, and now we\u2019re back at $38 per 1,000 kilometres, is to seek the balance for the need for these vehicles to pay for their fair use of the road. And noting that plug-in hybrids have a reduced rate in a sense because they also pay the petrol excise, and finding an equitable outcome is the only fair approach to take. The reduced RUC is also a temporary measure. We will be coming back in the future, as highlighted by the Minister of Transport, proposing the move for all vehicles to move to RUCs and moving them away from having excise tax on petrol to create an even more equitable system where we believe, actually, you use the road, you should pay your fair\u00A0share.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EIncreased fuel efficiency of vehicles and the rise of electric vehicles has created variances in what motorists currently pay for the use of the road. This has meant that less fuel-efficient vehicles, often owned by low-income households, end up paying more in fuel excise duty than owners of later model, more fuel-efficient vehicles. I see my colleague Minister Goldsmith, who I know is eager to eat his dinner\u2014eager to get out of his seat\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022648dae859ce44cd28eb8aeb0350a3e8b\u0022\u003EHon Chris Penk\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019d rather eat someone else\u2019s!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220afad80a97ef48f5884b590db941c4ab\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! I couldn\u2019t possibly repeat what was just said. But I just want to reiterate to the House that this has been a pragmatic outcome reached by the select committee and taken by the Minister, that it is only fair that those who own plug-in hybrids pay a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000 kilometres. And if you use the road, then you should be paying for its upkeep and its maintenance. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002244abea0c52a04c60a1100cb6592e0716\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244abea0c52a04c60a1100cb6592e0716\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s kai time. The House is suspended for dinner, and it will resume at 7.30.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.01 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002233201f0013cc4b038ce671781a0a33f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233201f0013cc4b038ce671781a0a33f4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we are debating the second reading of the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9b436a6349640f99052c036d271748b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9b436a6349640f99052c036d271748b\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just want to talk briefly on this bill. I was on the Transport and Infrastructure Committee last term, and I returned for a very brief appearance in the committee when it was discussing quite a critical part of this bill, which was the issue of what discount should be given to people who had plug-in hybrids. It was really lovely to see my colleagues taking such an active role, and I was there when Arena Williams put up the possibility of an amendment, which has turned out to be something that\u2019s been adopted by the Government in the new form of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo for people out there who are wondering what on earth this is all about, this is a bill which brings back a charge to people who have electric vehicles for their use of the roads. The reason that that was exempted for quite some time was because we really, really need to encourage vehicles that are not using fossil fuels, and so we had in the last Government a plan as to how to do that and we incentivised it. We had a carrot for people buying new vehicles, and that was the discount, the Clean Car Discount. We had some sticks, which were really those measures that said you can\u2019t bring in really dirty vehicles into the country. So we had those kinds of measures in place, and we had taken away for quite some time the payment that electric vehicles would make to our roads, because we collect the money for road maintenance every time somebody fills up their tank for petrol, or, if you\u2019ve got diesel, then we\u2019re collecting it from you in a different way but it\u2019s basically the same thing. So that\u2019s how we were doing it. We had this incentive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow, everybody knew that it couldn\u2019t really last for ever in terms of having a discount that was so entire on the use of electric vehicles on our roads. So we could see that that was going to have to come to an end at some point. The Clean Car Discount was extremely successful, probably more successful than the transport Minister at the time thought it would be. The uptake was huge, and I\u2019m sad to see that go, because I really sincerely think that when I was in that committee and we went through that work, I went from the point of being someone who was sceptical about it to somebody who was totally convinced by the end of that process, and then I saw it work and I saw a huge uptick in the amount of vehicles. Now, that piece of work means that there\u2019s a whole lot of vehicles out there that are electric and that will now move into the second-hand market and will mean that a whole lot of families that would never be able to buy a car that was new electric will be getting one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAnd there\u2019s a whole lot of families who bought these plug-in hybrid cars as well, and they were in a situation, when we were looking at this law, where it looked like they would be in trouble, because the plug-in hybrids were not\u2014they were going to pay at the pump every time they filled up, and they were going to basically have a double charge, because they were going to be charged, as electric cars, like a diesel car is affected. So it was going to be a sort of double whammy for them. So there\u2019s been an amendment here where there\u2019s a 50 percent reduction in what they pay so that there is an accounting for the fact\u2014and it\u2019s rough, it\u2019s rough. Some people will be winners and some people will be losers, but, basically, there\u2019s an accounting for that in the percentage that has been found here of discount on what they\u2019ll pay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m really pleased to see this happen. I think this is an area we\u2019re going to have to be creative, we\u2019re going to have to be nimble in the way we work, and there\u2019ll be a lot of unknowns. It was great to see the select committee\u2014and I was there when this happened\u2014work on this, talk about it, and I saw that working. So I have absolute respect for the people on the committee, who had a very real, genuine discussion about this problem and how to fix it, and I commend particularly Arena Williams for coming up with the advocacy for this position. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u00222ff663d0d4ac4d9fb2181d5f4a2194c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ff663d0d4ac4d9fb2181d5f4a2194c4\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of this bill. Let\u2019s be very clear, this bill is about road-user charges. Let\u2019s be really clear what that means: roads are long, hard surfaces that are built for vehicles to travel along; a user is a vehicle of the said road; and the charge is a fee for that said user to use said road. Now, cars use roads regardless of their fuel source, whether it\u2019s electric, it could be hydrogen, or it could even be ammonia, which Toyota is actually working on. And so this is all about transitioning to a fair and equitable system so that all road users are contributing to the upkeep and maintenance of roads, irrespective of the type of vehicle that they use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re discussing this bill now because, of course, there\u2019s a bit of urgency, because there\u2019s an exemption currently in place which is going to expire. The previous National Government, they put that exemption in place to encourage EV uptake, which, of course, it did, and it was successful. But it always was designed to end, and, in the long run, all vehicles need to be part of a road-user charge system so we can have suitable upkeep of our roads. I haven\u2019t been on the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, but, reading the report, there has been over\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273c62ad9a2514a02a7fb83d5ef593a60\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s their loss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdcf206119e8469fbb30116a0e8e6eb3\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yeah, it is their loss\u2014over 500 submissions, and most of them pretty much all agreed that vehicles, EVs and the like, should pay a road-user charge and pay for road maintenance. Now, there\u2019s been a lot of debate about how much that should be, and, of course, we have a road-user charge currently, but, of course, plug-in hybrids have a mix of fuel and electricity, so there has been a technical modelling and a lot of debate about what it should be. I will just point out that the Labour Government, in 2022, put out a figure of the 20 percent discount. That went nowhere, but, luckily, we have settled, through the select committee process, on a figure which is 15 percent, which I think is a fair amount. I appreciate there\u2019s going to be winners and losers, but we do need to kind of remember the fact that this is a transition and, eventually, all vehicles will need to be in some sort of system to pay for the use of the roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003ELooking forward, we don\u2019t want just to limit ourselves to vehicles that are electrical or petrol or diesel. There are other fuels coming along the pipeline, and I think we\u00A0really need to be mindful of that. Just on Friday, I was in the mighty Ilam electorate and visited a company that helps repair roads, and you look at the effort they put in\u2014we need to make sure we can support them to make sure we have safe roads. So,\u00A0therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u002276371101370c45b0992fdb5942e17b6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276371101370c45b0992fdb5942e17b6b\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to take a short call on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI just want to pick up on a couple of comments that the previous speaker, Hamish Campbell, made, because, you might be surprised to hear, I agree with some of it, about the fact that it is critical we, as a Parliament, are always considering how we fund our transport projects. It is a challenging area to fund. Way back in the day, when nearly all vehicles would have been funded through levies, there were some changes made by the Minister of Transport Annette King to ensure that the levies that were collected all went into transport projects, because they used to actually go into the general taxation pot. I think it points to the fact that we have a growing infrastructure deficit in this country. We have to fund our roads, and the Government opposite us is going to have a massive challenge around how they fund the very many projects that they\u2019ve promised, especially when they add back in the one they\u2019ve taken away from Nelson. I look forward to that happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s a genuine issue. We have a transition occurring in our transport fleet, which means we have a growing number of road users who are not paying for the upkeep of our roads. I think that New Zealanders are about fairness, and as much as we need to continue incentivising the switch in the type of vehicle that we are using, there is an inherent sense of fairness there around the fact that all of us who use the roads need to be making our contribution to the cost of the upkeep as well as transport projects, particularly new pieces of infrastructure that we will be building. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo I wanted to just point to some of the things that the bill specifically does, just drawing particularly on the needs of those who drive hybrid vehicles. Most of us in this House will use taxis from time to time. Having spoken to a few taxi drivers, they\u2019re pretty grumpy about what the Government was planning on doing, particularly around plug-in hybrids. Now, if you compare original hybrids, which mostly fuel on a combustion engine and then use the electric vehicle to top them up, as opposed to plug-in hybrids that are primarily electric vehicles, what we saw in the original drafting of this bill from the Government was an inherent unfairness, where you would have those drivers paying the levies on the petrol that they put into the vehicle, as well as paying the RUC\u2014the road-user charge. There would have been a double whammy applied to those road users. At the time when the bill came through its first reading, that was pointed out. It was pointed out through questions in the House to the Minister that there was going to be extra cost added on to people using plug-in hybrids, and more so than other types of vehicles. So it\u2019s something that our colleagues\u2014and I\u2019m really pleased that Arena Williams and Tangi Utikere were able to bring this into the select committee, and the select committee agreed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, in my area of Nelson, and I know I shouldn\u2019t bring you into the debate, but in your electorate as well, we have a lot of people who actually choose hybrids instead of a full electric vehicle (EV). The reason that they do that is because of things like range anxiety. So it is actually the perfect solution to be able to have a vehicle that can draw on a combustion engine when it needs to, when you don\u2019t have enough charging stations, when we\u2019re driving through our rural areas, like Nelson to Motueka, Nelson across the hill to Blenheim. These are real issues for drivers wanting to do the right thing. So, in my electorate, there was a lot of push back when people heard that there was going to be a double whammy approach to plug-in hybrid vehicles in particular. I\u2019m really pleased that Tangi Utikere and Arena Williams were able to put in this amendment. I\u2019m really pleased that the committee agreed to the amendment, and that the Minister of Transport, the Hon Simeon Brown, has subsequently indicated his agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI seem to have lost sound, that\u2019s OK. I\u2019ll use my singing voice for a moment. That\u2019s OK, I can do that. And so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215817706b6f84d209dd8529344fadb3f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Sing\u2014sing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b78a59741a840e1aeb4a45fe47d2c4c\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I could, you know, I could\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022799a6ff6317e45f5a9a717825f59aa2b\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: A very good singer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff25a6c4954c43c8832d9db9863f8efe\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t tempt me. I think where we\u2019ve got to is a really good position here around that fairness, for fair treatment of different types of vehicles. The last thing I did want to just mention was around the process. The fact that we had a group of vehicle users that did feel that sense of unfairness, where, actually, on reflection, the Minister did go and change his view, shows the flaw in the process that the Government has applied in terms of the short period of time that we had at select committee in order to put this bill through. So there is a lesson here, that, actually, bills like this, which are so fundamental to how we ultimately collect the revenue we need to fund our critical transport infrastructure projects\u2014it just goes to show that we actually do need to allow the committee to have the time that they need to be able to give proper consideration to a bill of this kind. I\u2019m sure that will come up throughout the committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo Labour is pleased to be able to support this bill. I look forward to the Government\u2014as the Opposition, I think we should always be talking across the House in a constructive way around how we do fund transport projects. I look at the\u2014as a former member of the committee\u2014the members before I joined did do a very good study into congestion charging in Auckland. You know, it\u2019s an issue that is challenging for motorists to have to respond to, but these are the conversations that we need to have so that we know we\u2019re actually getting the right incentives around the types of vehicles that people are using, but also making sure that we are collecting the revenue that we need. Auckland is going to now be facing a real challenge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo, on that note, I really look forward to the Minister hearing the views of the Nelson electorate, and giving us our Rocks Road project back. This is an excellent bill, and I\u00A0commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022924d60a2898c4115b1559034e54f4125\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022924d60a2898c4115b1559034e54f4125\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise, and I want to tautoko the previous speaker, Rachel Boyack, and also acknowledge Tangi and Arena. We actually thought we might have to push them to get to our point of view and our resolution. In the end, when we listened to the submitters, we thought, \u201CActually, we want to go big with this discount. We want to listen to the submitters.\u201D But, in the end, they were on board. So it was just fantastic, and I want to thank them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge that I love travelling on our great expressways, particularly ones that are 110 kilometres per hour. As I\u2019ve mentioned, the Waikato Expressway is just fantastic. The great thing about travelling at that speed is you actually feel safer, you can go faster, and, of course, we know it\u2019s such a great result for more productivity throughout New Zealand. And, actually, it\u2019s more fun too, especially if you\u2019re playing just the right music at the right time. So I look forward to more of those roads as we now build in the maintenance, repairs, and the funding mechanisms that will enable us to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EAlso, the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor made some good mentions earlier about road maintenance, and I might be paraphrasing, but I\u2019m pretty sure that road maintenance hasn\u2019t been too great in the last six years. And the great thing about this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224489fd5f16ab42859a51648a9cd68a78\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a hell of a lot better than it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022669f1566ee274a41a4a801ea37fd5b42\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the great thing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bb7e161f8a0449e853a3201b782fd84\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: 62,000 potholes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcc28a36a51841ad9fb5b9562f8898a3\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: 62,000 potholes, I hear. I didn\u2019t realise it was that much. Thank you, MP for Tauranga\u2014fantastic. Imagine if we\u2019d been collecting road maintenance\u2014no, no, we have been collecting road maintenance. Imagine if we used road maintenance for road maintenance purposes! Wouldn\u2019t that just be amazing? But here is a tangible measure where we can get the funding stream. And here\u2019s a great word I want to use\u2014because the left always talks about \u201Cequitable\u201D and \u201Cequitable outcomes\u201D. Well, the good thing about this road-user charge (RUC) is it\u2019ll be equitable; it\u2019ll be agnostic to the type of fuel, but it\u2019ll be equitable in that it measures the amount of return we get based on weight and distance travelled. How wonderful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EAnd isn\u2019t it good that this Government listens? It was interesting that, actually, National, showing leadership way back in 2009, as visionaries for the environment, thought, \u201CLet\u2019s subsidise the use of EV and electronic vehicles. Let\u2019s encourage that form of transport.\u201D And I\u2019m pleased to report back that, 15 years later, we\u2019ve hit success. We set a 2 percent target, and we\u2019ve achieved it\u2014we\u2019ve achieved it\u2014and now we need to refine the policy, because it\u2019s achieved what we set out to do. And, in collaboration with our partners from ACT and New Zealand First, we\u2019re now going to make a fit for purpose\u00A0RUC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cac5868c5bcb4493ab36804a2d54830e\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: A policy of low expectations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c535eaf603c42c193a143c41d97ae2f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Oh you\u2019d know! 100,000 homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2a639f573fd4a5b85d7165085b46e4a\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: You set them very low. Thank you for that comment. We\u2019re going to increase it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278dad8a7954d4341ba037a8d54cb2d2d\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Congratulations\u20142 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eb475f74ed24013bd4c82b50cbb7afa\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the member did set those expectations very low.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022860f0f76750d426da57b50eea9c3e077\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! If you want to have this conversation, please take it outside. I apologise to the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a0bb96b28ba4a98add1e9fb2e8d87da\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Julie Anne Genter also mentioned before about incentives. Well, this was an incentive, and it worked, and again I must emphasise it achieved its purpose and we can now create a much more equitable outcome. In fact, I don\u2019t know if the member for Maungakiekie is here, but he said this is actually a win-win: we can save money and the environment. And he\u2019s quite keen to go and buy his second electric vehicle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EThe other good thing is that, when we came into Government, on the back of the previous Government\u2019s 2022 consultation\u2014they went out at 20 percent reduction\u2014we\u00A0proposed a 30\u00A0percent reduction, and I\u2019m so pleased that today we\u2019re all in agreeance on a 50 percent reduction. And though we\u2019ve been criticised for moving in urgency and moving in a very truncated select committee process, it shows that we\u2019re an open-minded, nimble, pragmatic Government, and this is a case in point. So this is really quite incredible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EI must remind everyone in the House, too, that the primary purpose of the road-user charge is not carbon tax; the primary purpose of the Road User Charges Act 2012 is for this charge to be proportionate to the cost that the vehicle generates, and that\u2019s, today, why we\u2019re talking about weight and distance rather than the use of fuel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton also talked earlier about administration, and obviously the opportunity and, I guess, the challenge now is the administration of that toll tax. But it was elucidating, through the select committee process, to see that actually 80 percent of our tolling money goes into administration, and that\u2019s far too much. But the opportunity is, of course, also to reduce that, to increase the amount that we can toll or generate through different roading mechanisms, but also to get more efficient, because we\u2019re keen to get more efficient so that we can use that money not for bureaucracy and Government bloat but actually for delivering outcomes for our road users.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also keen to see the registration stickers. I think it\u2019s always really good when you see fresh stickers on the windscreen and they\u2019re aligned and fresh, and it\u2019s always good to have new registration stickers. And so that fee will go proportionately back to the renewal of those registration stickers, which I think is really key.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EI think I\u2019m just about at the conclusion of my delivery here, but I thought I\u2019d just\u00A0emphasise that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da8d58c21fcf4c2da81b73b0778f26a8\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b838a6d38f140b2a5592255bdd3a54f\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: Start again? Maybe I\u2019ll just reemphasise the point that we didn\u2019t hear a 20 percent consultation discount on the proposed road-user charge for plug-in hybrids. We went out on consultation with a 30 percent. Yes, it was a truncated select committee process, but the submitters came, we listened, and we\u2019re now proposing a 50\u00A0percent reduction on that plug-in hybrid rate. And so that\u2019s very pragmatic. And I\u2019m also very pleased to see that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, you would have heard about the phrase \u201CBring back Buck\u201D. Well, Madam Speaker, we\u2019re going to bring back RUC!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EPlug-in hybrids will pay their way;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003Eno more free rides, OK?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EFunds for maintenance and repair\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003Ehelping get us out of disrepair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003ENo more potholes and speed bumps,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003Ebut more productivity and pineapple lumps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, may I commend this bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003Eso that we can get our fill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003Eto build and maintain a more productive New Zealand and get us all back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4723635d5b7450fb2d3a1b11c2f64a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4723635d5b7450fb2d3a1b11c2f64a9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e7514692752486db16e264edb7f5dfb\u0022\u003EEuropean Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002288dd5985303a4bf5ad63a96c85081b62\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00223a0c8306a325407391e62369501f2fef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a0c8306a325407391e62369501f2fef\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister for Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022295c50faf6eb49e48cf35c08e461a2c7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b5518eb730c4c14824193842a210de5\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9f3c153180a4b4689a004b2e06a2a1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9f3c153180a4b4689a004b2e06a2a1a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: In accordance with a determination of the Business Committee, this bill is set down for committee stage immediately. I declare the House in committee for consideration of the European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229c86f2afd40a46c4a6a2e28af362844c\u0022\u003EIn Committee \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6449a5d841548dfbf0dc2cb69047590\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 5, Schedules 1 to 3, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223c908fae8ee5421eabd62118ec5aa26d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c908fae8ee5421eabd62118ec5aa26d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill. Members, we start with the debate on Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c80660cb56e0406397961b748a1e9994\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c80660cb56e0406397961b748a1e9994\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chair. I\u00A0seek leave to debate the European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f486e3318cbf4962b7e95392c2e64802\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f486e3318cbf4962b7e95392c2e64802\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is not. The question is that Parts 1 to 5, Schedules 1 to 3, and clauses 1 and 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf31277838e648a2b7a7893d4aae63c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf31277838e648a2b7a7893d4aae63c2\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. In the spirit of cooperation that is generally the way that we manage trade agreements in this House, I think all parties in the House have agreed to come together and to move this through as quickly as possible. It\u2019s not because it\u2019s insignificant or small in terms of the technical parts of the bill, but it\u2019s one where there has been agreement reached, and I\u2019d just like to acknowledge the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll take the opportunity, and I know it\u2019s a kind of a free-ranging speech, and we can go all over the place\u2014of course while focusing on the bill\u2014but I\u2019ll acknowledge the Minister and his efforts to keep this thing moving as quickly as possible. There\u2019s been much said about the timing of when it came into the House; the reality was that this is quite a complex piece of legislation. I don\u2019t think we\u2019re going to go and unpick it. The select committee had the opportunity to do that, and I\u2019ll acknowledge the chair, who heard submissions, who managed this process properly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIt is technical. A trade agreement with 450 million people, negotiated with 5 million people, is quite an achievement. So in acknowledging the Minister\u2019s movement and momentum, I want to go back to the officials, who have been a key part of this. Ten years ago, probably it would have been said that this was impossible. We\u2019re a small player at the bottom of the Pacific; the European Union, arguably, one of the biggest single blocs of economic activity and commerce in the world, and 450\u00A0million highly discerning, high-value consumers\u2014what would they want with us? The agreement is about values\u2014value and values, but most particularly values, because we share many of the same aspirations as all 27 of the EU member States, and I think that\u2019s quite an achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge Ministers Dombrovskis and Wojciechowski, who were the key leaders\u2014one in agriculture and the other, Valdis Dombrovskis, is the trade commissioner from the EU. He drove this through some difficult times\u2014one of them being, of course, the Ukraine war, which cut right across everything that the EU was doing. He kept focus on the New Zealand - EU free-trade agreement, and I want to thank him once again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe pressure was on, I guess, us as a Government too. The previous Labour Government had signed a free-trade agreement with China. My colleague the Hon\u00A0David\u00A0Parker had signed the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership and so I had to get on and try and do my little bit, and I know, as I\u2019ve said before, it\u2019s a non-partisan area. New Zealand is a trading nation and we need to open every door, every opportunity we can for trading nations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWhat makes this agreement, I guess, more valuable is in the services area, and I know there has been some disappointment in some areas of agriculture that didn\u2019t get the volumes that they wanted. None the less, the increased access\u2014particularly for dairy and for beef\u2014offers huge opportunities to add real value to the total export earnings of those sectors, but it\u2019s in the services area where we\u2019re not limited really, only by what\u2019s between our ears, and New Zealanders are very, very good at this open government procurement into the EU. Services that are unlimited in terms of their volume and scope can now trade into the EU\u00A0with virtually no barriers, and so thank you to the officials for the technical work that they did to keep us in the game. I have to say that it is a very valuable agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll maybe take the opportunity\u2014and there\u2019s a national interest analysis here, quite a substantive one. You can go to estimated impacts by sector: \u201CExpanded export opportunities for the agriculture and food sector is an important driver of the overall economic benefits. Improved and preferential quota access and lower or no tariffs on products such as beef, cheese, butter, fruit, and wine would improve New Zealand competitiveness\u201D. It opens the door to us being more competitive in these areas; but on top of that, the services sector is expected to make the largest contribution to economic gains in absolute terms, due to the significant role of services in the New Zealand economy, something that we don\u2019t always appreciate but we are coming to realise more and more. So, you know, up to $2.1 billion of additional gain, the largest source of economic gains from the agreement from the services sector\u2014nothing to scoff about at\u00A0all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ESo there were submissions made to the select committee on some technical areas, but one of, I guess, the areas of interest were geographical indicators. It\u2019s quite a strange thing that the agreement does two things. It protects geographical indicators, and then it actually allows the EU, in almost an opposite approach, to say that anything produced in any member State can be called \u201Cfrom EU\u201D. So while we might have had country of origin as a traditional way forward to identify which particular State we\u2019ve said, \u201CNo; we\u2019ll go back and accept anything from the EU because you\u2019ll maintain the standards.\u201D So at one end, geographical indicators; at the other end, opening up opportunities for all exporters from the EU into our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002216798840d059491baa3009b3a481c037\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216798840d059491baa3009b3a481c037\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d76606db82564d878554e7419baa410c\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b3025572ea24afba1daab85cf49e163\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Damien O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u002211e5967c7dfa4a639840cb5964a52f5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211e5967c7dfa4a639840cb5964a52f5e\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I won\u2019t take too long, other than to say that people might see a number of contradictions in a big player like the EU having an agreement with New Zealand, and why? As I say, I come back to the values one, and all the tricky areas that we work through, on geographical indicators really leaving the door open for most of our cheese and wine exporters or traders or producers, with a couple of exceptions that we couldn\u2019t negotiate our way out of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EOn geographical indicators, consultation by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade around New Zealand where we asked how we should manage geographical indicators, because there were some concerns, the question of, \u201CWell, how many are we going to develop and protect?\u201D\u2014there was little or no interest from the New Zealand primary sectors. That is disappointing. So what I lay on the Table, with this agreement, is a challenge to the food and beverage sectors\u2014and wine, of course, has a few geographical indicators, as we appreciate the value, but for the other sectors in the finest quality nutrition to the world, let\u2019s develop some of our own and turn those into valuable, clearly identifiable, and unique products for us to sell to the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll leave it at that, other than to say thank you once again to officials, to the Minister keeping this moving through. This is a high-quality, valuable agreement for New Zealand into the future. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1a0930cac2b4915b4abb262ceba4268\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1a0930cac2b4915b4abb262ceba4268\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, it\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take a call here in the committee stage of the European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill. Of course, noticing the brevity of the process we\u2019ve gone through\u2014a truncated second reading\u2014and can I acknowledge and thank members across the Chamber for their willingness to support that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EI do really want to just touch a bit on the time frame because I think it is really important to note that this has been a collaborative effort and I really do want to acknowledge, particularly, the members that I\u2019ve worked with on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee for their speedy, efficient, but detailed consideration of this piece of legislation, because it is very important for New Zealand exporters and it\u2019s as simple as that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge and thank the Minister for Trade as well for bringing this before the House. It was the very first sitting week of the year we were debating this legislation and then given a report back of 4 April. Looking at that, though, we were able to determine that, actually, by just coming a week or so earlier, it would enable the agreement to come into force an entire month earlier, which would have a direct financial benefit for New\u00A0Zealand exporters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EMembers across the committee were very keen to support that endeavour and I really want to acknowledge their work. I also want to thank Damien O\u2019Connor, particularly as a former Minister for Trade, for his work on this agreement as well. I think that\u2019s one of the things that we are very\u2014well, certainly as the chair of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, I\u2019m thankful for on our committee: that we have a relatively collegial approach to these aspects on the committee and, actually, that\u2019s as it should be for something as important as this, because it is an important piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EAs I said, the time frame part of it is really interesting. When we heard from submitters through this process, but even prior to that, those industries that were going to be impacted or would have benefit from this, they made it clear that given the seasonal nature of some of those products\u2014in horticulture, in particular\u2014we\u2019re in a window at the moment where products are being exported. By us being able to look at having enforcement on 1 May, which is what we\u2019re working towards now with the prompt consideration that the committee is providing on this bill, that will actually provide a direct financial benefit to a number of those exporters in terms of the percentage of product they would otherwise be exporting through that month of May, in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m really pleased, again\u2014and I do really just want to thank the members for that. Because it was something that we could easily have taken our full time allocation through till April on, which would have pushed it out until June or indeed even longer if the Minister hadn\u2019t brought the legislation in and given us that shortened report-back date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EBecause this is important, and I think it\u2019s worth noting, actually, that the EU ratified at their end late last year, which was fantastic to see\u2014late November they ratified it in their Parliament. So, of course, then it was just waiting on New Zealand\u2019s end to carry out that work. So I\u2019m very pleased to be able to bring that forward now and to have agreement across the House to bypass the second reading process, straight into committee stage now, and then on to the final reading in a couple of days\u2019 time\u2014assuming we progress with this committee stage tonight, which I\u2019m confident that we will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ENow, look, I do just want to thank the submitters as well for their input through this process. There were a number of submitters that raised some really valid points within the consideration; some aspects that were slightly outside the scope of the bill in that they were more to do with the agreement itself. As Damien O\u2019Connor had touched on, there\u2019s a range of views around the level of access\u2014whether that was sufficient or not\u2014and we can constantly seek improvements in those things. I think whenever there is a trade agreement\u2014or, in fact, any sort of negotiation\u2014if both parties come out of it a little dissatisfied, you probably got the balance about right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EI guess it keeps that ambition there to strive for continued improvement over time. That\u2019s certainly something that we are very keen to do on this side of the House. No trade deal is ever complete: there\u2019s always an opportunity to enhance the relationship further, to continue to work on, to evolve, to develop, to deepen that relationship. That is really important for a trade-oriented nation such as New Zealand. Not just because of trade, though, but, actually, when you look at some of the increasing geopolitical tensions that we face around the globe at the moment, it makes it increasingly important to be clear with our position on the international rules-based order, our democratic values that underpin how we operate. Trade, of course, sits alongside that as well. So these are all important considerations that we were mindful of as we went through the consideration of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EIn terms of these submitters, I do just want to expand a little on that because there were some concerns raised around the enforcement regime, in particular, that\u2019s put in place through this legislation that we are debating, and concerns around whether or not that was necessary. Ultimately, we got to a position where it was clear through the free-trade agreement itself that did require an administrative mechanism to be established to enable that enforcement to be carried out here in New Zealand alongside the judicial process that could occur. So having that additional function created to enable that administrative mechanism where there were concerns around breaches of geographic indicators was an important part of enacting this free-trade agreement as it was put forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo, ultimately, as I say, we can always debate whether or not there was the best outcome or the right outcome. But this legislation, I think, has landed in a good place. As I say again, this legislation is actually simply to enable the free-trade agreement that was agreed last year. It\u2019s not to make any changes, and that was to some of the other aspects raised by submitters around whether we could have got or should have got a different level of access in their particular area of interest\u2014red meat and dairy were two that came up, in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003EBut, ultimately, when you look at it from the perspective of \u201CNZ Inc.\u201D, there are wonderful benefits in here, there are some good aspects to the trade agreement, and I\u2019m confident that it will provide value to New Zealanders. Again, the timeliness of that was the critical aspect here\u2014bringing it into force; enabling that contribution to start a month earlier has a meaningful impact for exporters right now. Particularly when we\u2019re seeing some challenging economic situations domestically, anything we can do in this House to help improve that situation is one of the rewarding things of being an MP, I think, to help those businesses succeed in their journey as exporters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003ESo, look, I\u2019m happy to support this bill. Thank the Minister, again, for their consideration, and for members opposite for their support on this. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00220a13fd1316214396a7f887e464b72da2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a13fd1316214396a7f887e464b72da2\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I acknowledge the contributions from the two previous speakers. They\u2019ve acknowledged the role of the officials and of the Minister for Trade for bringing this and encouraging it to go through so quickly, and, rightly so, acknowledging the working of the select committees, but I think it\u2019s important to acknowledge the role that previous Ministers played, in particular that of the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor. In my view, he is the hardest-working and most effective trade Minister that we\u2019ve had, actually, and it has to be acknowledged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI remember going on a delegation\u2014an official delegation\u2014alongside the Rt Hon David Carter, the Hon Paul Goldsmith, and the Hon Anne Tolley to commemorate Passchendaele. While we were there, we were asked to ensure that we met with key delegates from the European Union to push for this free-trade agreement, and whilst there was a lot of enthusiasm at an individual level, we didn\u2019t leave with too much enthusiasm that anything would be done all that quickly. That was in 2020. Well, we know that in that period of time, there was COVID, there were massive disruptions, and so for the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor to be able to work alongside officials and steer that home in the way that he did and get it signed, also in the backdrop of signing the UK free-trade agreement, which commenced and concluded in a single term of Government\u2014I\u00A0don\u2019t think that\u2019s happened before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important that at moments like this, with key pieces of legislation that will bring benefits to New Zealand exporters over generations to come, that those that play a part in\u00A0that are given true recognition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u002265d6b5dbe590483fbc81baf143da5f56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265d6b5dbe590483fbc81baf143da5f56\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I can see the Minister was about to get on his feet, so I\u2019ll try not to stand between the committee and the Minister\u2019s contribution for too long, but I just wanted to add to the questions that I hope that the Minister might address. I would be interested to hear from him his thoughts about some aspects of this trade agreement which are unusual and ground-breaking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EColleagues have commented on the geographical indicators issue, the questions of market access, but one of the distinctive features of this trade agreement which\u2014the delegation of European parliamentarians who visited New Zealand before the EU entered the ratification phase were very keen to emphasise the importance of some of the provisions in here which they felt bound New Zealand and the EU in terms of shared values. It was their commitment to labour standards; the provisions in the agreement which provide that the parties can hold each other accountable to the commitments that we have made under the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women, the international instrument on gender equality; and our commitments, both the EU and New Zealand, to the Paris climate change commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5c1149e7d2245f8920eb596d30cb60e\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, minor detail\u2014minor detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d3fd046697e4f6abc62599a54af8a71\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not surprised that that member would say this was a minor detail, given his stated intention in some of his portfolios. He might find his activities dragged up before a tribunal to determine whether or not they\u2019re in breach of our country\u2019s commitments under this agreement. That would be very interesting to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019d invite the Minister to comment about his thoughts on those provisions, which do make this quite a distinctive agreement. I\u2019d be interested to hear what advice he\u2019s got on how those provisions are operationalised. What are we going to do? We all know that even in the best of agreements, you can achieve a good result on paper, but it\u2019s what happens after the ink dries in terms of exporters being able to take advantage of market access and reduction of tariff barriers and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EBut what about these other provisions: labour standards, climate change commitments, gender equality? I would note in relation to labour standards that the Council of Trade Unions, New Zealand\u2019s peak body for the labour movement, is raising questions at the International Labour Organization in Geneva about whether or not this Government\u2019s recent moves in the area of employment relations risks putting New Zealand in breach of the commitments we made to the EU under this agreement. So I\u2019d be keen to hear the Minister\u2019s view on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca9c6fca2eb24b31a30fd65736c0384a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca9c6fca2eb24b31a30fd65736c0384a\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister for Trade):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. It gives me pleasure to take a call on the debate on this agreement. And I agree with other members about its importance not only to New Zealand but, actually, the huge opportunity it provides New Zealand exporters, particularly the primary sector, to do much more in a very large and wealthy market\u2014the European Union.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ECan I recognise the work of the committee and how quickly they went about their work. I\u2019m mindful that everybody who submitted and wanted to come before the committee was afforded the opportunity to do so, and the committee took time to listen to all those who submitted, and I commend them for that. But can I also recognise that they worked when Parliament was in session, they worked on Mondays and Fridays and in recesses to go as hard as they could to do their job properly to scrutinise the legislation and suggest any changes that are needed as they are meant to, but to do so also so it could return to the House in an extremely timely fashion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIndeed, I think from first reading, which was 31 January, until this Thursday, where third reading will take place, is a matter of some seven weeks, and I\u2019m not sure that we have seen such commitment from this House on a free-trade agreement (FTA), particularly one of the magnitude of this one previously. So I\u2019d like to recognise all the members of the House for the work that they have done. In particular, Damien O\u2019Connor, who was the Minister at the time the agreement was negotiated and was signed, to recognise his commitment over a very long period of time and to reach agreement. He said, as others have said, in some areas it hasn\u2019t met the expectation\u2014I know particularly for dairy or beef farmers within New Zealand. Overall, it is a good result for New Zealand. It will help grow the economy and increase the wealth of New Zealand and give Governments more opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to recognise the ACT Party and New Zealand First for agreeing for this process to go faster than it might overwise. In particular, for us to be able to do second reading today without debate, and then a wider ranging debate here in the committee stage, and then to have third reading in the same week. To the Green Party also, who I reached out to and who agreed to work as fast as they could, scrutinising the document properly, but also so that it could follow through to the House and enter into force. And to recognise the M\u0101ori Party, and whilst they may have a different view to me in first reading when it comes to trade, I do commit to them that, actually, this agreement will be good for all New Zealanders: P\u0101keh\u0101, M\u0101ori, Indian, Chinese, everybody that commits themselves to work hard in New Zealand and to export, and therefore I would hope that in their debates they will work with us to find ways to make agreements in the future better to deliver for all New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EDamien O\u2019Connor and others have recognised the officials. They worked very, very hard. Ministers get to go meetings and occasionally stay up late at night talking about these things, but the officials are the ones that put the effort in day in and day out, day in and day out. To recognise the very large group of them that worked over this from the conception of the idea of having a free-trade agreement with the European Union to when it was launched, the negotiations, and the conclusion. Much of the thanks is owed to them. In fact, without their work we wouldn\u2019t be here working as dutifully as we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI want to touch on a couple of parts of the agreement that have been raised, and I\u2019ll do my best to answer the mischievous question from the Hon Phil Twyford. But at the same time, I don\u2019t want to stand in the way of progress. The reason that I asked members of the committee of the whole House and the Business Committee to allow us to go faster than we would otherwise is because this agreement enters into force on the first day of the second month after New Zealand ratifies, and that\u2019s because the European Union ratified last year through their processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe reason that\u2019s important is because, on entry into force, there\u2019s $100 million worth of tariff savings for New Zealand exporters on day one for the first year. That\u2019s one of the highest levels of tariff saving on entering into force of any agreement we\u2019ve ever concluded. But more importantly than that, there are at least two industries\u2014the kiwifruit industry and the onion industry\u2014who are seasonal and about to export or have already exported their products to the European market. In the case of kiwifruit, if we can get this work done this week, then the agreement will enter into force on 1 May, not 1 June or July or even 1 August, which was what some people thought it may take the time for the House to get through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a $43 million saving for New Zealand kiwifruit growers as a result of this because 90\u00A0percent of their crop going to the European Union will be covered under this agreement and the tariff rate will fall to zero. In as far as the onion growers of New\u00A0Zealand are concerned, about a third of their crop\u2014a saving of $3 million for onion growers that will go directly into their pocket. So that\u2019s the reason that I think it\u2019s worth recognising the committee is coming together because of the direct benefit on day one and over the coming months for so many New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESo 91 percent of New Zealand\u2019s current goods trade with the EU will enter duty free, increasing to 97 percent over seven years; and $1.3 billion of GDP will be boosted annually, increasing our exports to the EU by up to $1.8 million per year. That\u2019s just jobs for New Zealanders and a better return for the hard work that they put in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EA number of issues have been raised, particularly around geographical indications (GIs). It\u2019s not something that New Zealand often has been in favour of\u2014indeed, this was an ask of the European Union, not something New Zealand went to the negotiating table with. However, it\u2019s important to recognise that the EU has not concluded an agreement without GI recognition in it. But I want to recognise the work officials did to minimise the effect upon New Zealand producers when it comes to a number of products that could have been covered by the geographical indicator mechanism in the European Union, and that where there will have to be changes to the names of some products, the lead-in is a period of time where they\u2019ll be able to adjust, it won\u2019t be thrust upon them, and they\u2019ll be able to come to terms with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EDamien O\u2019Connor mentioned that there wasn\u2019t great interest from New Zealand exporters around GI protection here. I think we should continue to listen to them, but I support them in that, because there are a number of ways that New Zealand gets to protect its reputation, and that\u2019s through continuing to have a very high-quality reputation. And that outside of the EU\u2019s desire to enforce GIs with others around the world, I don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s in New Zealand\u2019s best interest to try and go and enforce this type of protection elsewhere for New Zealand products, but where exporters have concerns, of course, we\u2019ll be open to listening to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford asked a little bit about some of the other parts of the agreement, and there are many areas that is different than some of the traditional trade agreements; although, even the original Trans-Pacific Partnership that flowed on from the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership had labour and environmental conditions, and so on, in it. Indeed, the agreement hasn\u2019t entered into force, and therefore any change this Government\u2019s made are not captured by it\u00A0because it hasn\u2019t entered into force. However, one of the most important principles of all free-trade agreements, including the European Union free-trade agreement, is the\u00A0right of Governments on both sides to pass rules and regulations through their Parliament to affect the standards that they think are important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to labour standards in the European Union and New Zealand, they\u2019re similar. In some cases, I think New Zealand\u2019s labour standards are higher. So I don\u2019t see that there is likely to be any dispute between New Zealand and the European Union in these areas and either way. As far as environmental standards of New Zealand committed to meeting its climate change reduction obligations, we do have the ability here, as Europe does, to find a way that is best for New Zealand to do that, just as the European Union have very different to New Zealand, it\u2019s the best intentions that are important here, and the Government is committed to meeting those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThere are two amendments that I will have introduced to this legislation in the committee stage, and they are minor by design, technical amendments that officials have found. The first is the clause 84, new section 59 of the Geographical Indications (Wine and Spirits) Registration Act 2006. This relates to the date of protection of amended GIs. In effect, it means that as the EU may change a GI, there is not additional costs or implication for New Zealand, and that we are mirroring some of the effects of those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe second amendment is a consequential amendment to section 20(1) of the Trade Marks Act 2002, and this relates to the prohibition on registering conflicting trade marks. The FTA prohibits the registration of trade marks that incorporates an EU GI, subject to certain conditions. To meet the requirement, the bill amends the Trade Marks Act to prevent the registration of trade marks that incorporates an EU GI, including any new GIs. However, in relation to a proposed EU GI, rather than only impacting those trade marks that incorporate a proposed EU GI, the current drafting of the bill prevents the registration of any trade marks from the time that any new EU GI proposals are published until those proposals are dealt with. To enact that draft would potentially impact many thousands of legitimate trade mark applications, therefore officials have suggested, and I have tabled, recommended Schedule 2 of the bill changes which set out the amendments to section 20(1) of the Trade Marks Act that amends to ensure that only relevant trade mark applications are impacted and not those that are meant to be excluded. With that in mind, I thank the House for its work and I commend it in committee stage to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9fa81ed11c040d58ecb651343edd7b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9fa81ed11c040d58ecb651343edd7b4\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll take the opportunity just to briefly comment on the two amendments, which we support\u2014I\u00A0understand they\u2019re technical amendments\u2014and, basically, once again just reaffirm our commitment as a country to geographical indications (GIs) and not to have trademarks to try and override what are legitimate GIs, certainly recognised in the EU but now by us as\u00A0well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Trade mentioned, of course, the areas of labour; small, medium enterprises; and environment. Animal welfare was one of the discussions that was had, and we do run different systems of farming, and so, as with the UK, what we agreed to do was not to direct or make judgment on animal welfare standards or indeed labour standards or environment, but to commit to uphold the highest standards that we possibly can and to not lower those standards for any trade advantage. I think that\u2019s the critical thing, and I think this Government and future Governments will have to be mindful of that. That\u2019s why the values that we share for a better world mean that we have to aspire to have higher standards in all those areas. These are areas that are sensitive to our consumers, sensitive to the people in our own countries, and I think it\u2019s a good commitment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe one unique area which followed on from the UK trade agreement was to have a M\u0101ori trade and economic cooperation chapter. When we started discussion in this area, it wasn\u2019t enthusiastically embraced by the EU and, they thought, perhaps their member States, because it was a\u2014I guess it\u2019s a new concept, to go back and recognise, respect, and then enhance the opportunities for our indigenous people. But all credit, once again, to negotiators and, I guess, the fairly staunch way that I and others tabled the need for this: this is the way that we\u2019re moving, we have a growing M\u0101ori economy, we have M\u0101ori people right through our communities who are looking for expectations and benefits from trade, which is why we have a trade-for-all agenda, to ensure that everyone can benefit from this. So we negotiated in an economic cooperation chapter, and that just, basically, says that we\u2019ll aspire to try and generate benefits. Actually, you know, what is good for M\u0101ori here, what\u2019s good for farmers, or good for service providers, is good for all of New Zealand. So I think that was a really positive step forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not going to carry on for too long, but just say a couple of people\u2014and he was tormented, I have to say. Vangelis Vitalis was tormented through this negotiation, because one of the things that the Europeans held out for\u2014and the Greeks in particular\u2014was feta, a cheese. Passionate cheese, close to the heart of all Greeks and the ancestors of all Greeks. I have to say, Vangelis was really torn here between trying to respect the rights of the Greek people and their enthusiasm to retain the rights to feta, and then, of course, the opportunities to New Zealand. But thank you to him and to all the others. We got through that. That is something that we are going to have to phase out after a transition period: we won\u2019t be able to use that term. But it\u2019s just one of the realities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ECan I thank Carl and Diana Reaich, who were the ambassadors in Brussels through this time. They worked very, very hard through COVID, through really difficult times, the Ukraine war as well. They went out, they contacted people, all through Brussels\u2014all\u00A0those people who might have had an influence. It\u2019s not easy to get the support of\u00A027\u00A0member States. Thank you to them and their officials and all the others. We did it. So,\u00A0look\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223481e4c454d14344bf2f93ba34073732\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: EU friendship group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5c017ec92d945e68b40f873fef7872e\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: EU friendship group, yeah, well, absolutely, and, as I say, the Hon Kieran McAnulty raised the fact that anyone who went anywhere near Europe had to bang on the door, knock on the door, and do the charm offensive. So this was a collective effort. We\u2019ve got there. I won\u2019t hold it up any longer and I\u2019ll sit down. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9f9eac5fb78456fb2bb19bb07ac23e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9f9eac5fb78456fb2bb19bb07ac23e0\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister for Trade):\u003C/span\u003E So soon after dinner, I have to rise and take the floor to talk about a Greek feta. And Damien O\u2019Connor\u2019s right: it can be a very challenging thing. Interestingly, many years ago, I had lived in Europe for a very long period of time and, upon returning to New Zealand, went to buy feta in New Zealand that said it was to the traditional Danish recipe, which I think to many Greek people would confuse them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBut the important point here around geographical indications (GIs), whilst it\u2019s not something that New Zealand itself would want to do or do much more of, or indeed a lot more of, it wasn\u2019t asked of the European Union. The way the EU works is it\u2019s not a collective decision; each member State has to say yes when it comes to a trade agreement, either because of the vote in the European Parliament or sitting around the table in the Council of Ministers, which is Ministers from all the States.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn a previous Government, as trade Minister, I visited Greece to talk to them about why we wanted a free-trade agreement, as we visited many countries in Europe to persuade them of the importance of a high-quality set of rules that businesses can rely upon and can invest and grow relationships with. Upon visiting Greece, the first, second, and third thing that they raised was the importance of Greek feta\u2014and the name and GI. So, as tortured as Vangelis Vitalis is, without the recognition of feta as a European GI, we would all be tortured, because I don\u2019t think we would have got a free-trade agreement with the EU.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThat in mind, it doesn\u2019t mean we should continue to accept these things, because, actually, you know, New Zealand producers produce very high-quality food, and I would argue that New Zealand feta\u2014as it\u2019s named today\u2014is of an equivalent quality and food safety as it is traditionally produced in Greece. It\u2019s just that, over the next few years, we\u2019ll have to come to another name. But, rest assured, it will still be able to be purchased, sold, just with a slightly different name, and it will still be enjoyed in Greek salads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c465dc27c3814102b34b3a3254aa9629\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c465dc27c3814102b34b3a3254aa9629\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, can I just remind members that this is the committee stage and that it is our opportunity, or your opportunity, to interrogate the detail of the bill with the Minister for Trade. I call the Hon\u00A0Phil Twyford.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4b56b555bb1487dac0a85e69af2bee5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4b56b555bb1487dac0a85e69af2bee5\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a detailed question for the Minister about the animal welfare provisions in the agreement. I\u2019m interested to know the Minister\u2019s view about whether a move to reinstate the live animal trade, which has been subject to much criticism over the years because of the\u00A0standards, or lack of them, in relation to animal welfare, would risk being in breach of\u00A0the provisions in the agreement which say that neither party will lower standards or\u00A0trade benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u002237dc0c85d6ab4c3d8e8e20b98b83d2fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237dc0c85d6ab4c3d8e8e20b98b83d2fe\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister for Trade):\u003C/span\u003E The answer to that is: no. Governments on both sides have reserved the writing of the agreement to legislate in the interests of, and in desiring to have, the highest standards. It doesn\u2019t mean that, actually, we must do the same as what others do; it just means that any decisions this Government makes around animal welfare issues, or anything else, has to be the equivalent. The Government\u2019s very mindful of its obligations, the responsibilities, when it comes to all the agreements that are signed, including trade agreements. So the answer to your question is: no, I don\u2019t believe it will put it in jeopardy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4fdcfffe92243c2ac72bd0e10441f2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4fdcfffe92243c2ac72bd0e10441f2a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Minister\u2019s amendments set out on Amendment Paper 21 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 5, Schedules 1 to 3, and clauses 1 and 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f99a704f4ceb42e4923e1e8fd7d2d87e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f99a704f4ceb42e4923e1e8fd7d2d87e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The committee has considered the European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Bill and reports it with amendment. I move, That the report be adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284e3d0ef30df4ad8ab9ac6688e871e67\u0022\u003EMisuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225f3beec020db4e61924ae471aa39e965\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f898f48609ce45399ef64eb32d65ec4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f898f48609ce45399ef64eb32d65ec4b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Health (Pharmac)):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Misuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248209104609746ecbba96c879eade991\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b0bd1c999584b34b2f06bac09821d6b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Misuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt gives me great pride to stand in support of the Misuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill 2024. I\u2019d like to start by thanking those members of the Health Committee, chaired by Sam Uffindell, but also Drs Hamish Campbell and Carlos Cheung, Ingrid Leary, Cameron Luxton, H\u016Bhana Lyndon, Jenny Marcroft, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, and Dr Ayesha Verrall. These guys, I think, have done tremendous work. There have been a total of 169 people who have submitted in the very compressed time frame available of four weeks to hear from the public. In addition to those people, nine organisations made a submission, and they report that most organisations, including pharmaceutical industry bodies and drug harm prevention groups, indicated support for the bill in their submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe select committee says it\u2019s not recommending any amendments to the bill as introduced, and that is in a way expected, because it is an extremely simple bill. In fact, here it is; it\u2019s really just 1\u00BD pages, and two pieces of paper is the whole thing. And all it really does is move the drug pseudoephedrine from one schedule of the Misuse of Drugs Act, where it\u2019s a class B drug, to another schedule, where it\u2019s made a class C2 drug. So it\u2019s not surprising that the select committee didn\u2019t decide to make great changes. However, they did hear from many members of the public, who gave some feedback that I think we found very helpful, and I certainly appreciated reading their report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThey pointed out that pseudoephedrine is a precursor drug; it can be used to make methamphetamine. And yet, since 2011, when pseudoephedrine was banned, the price of pseudoephedrine has gone down; the quantity consumed, unfortunately, has gone up; and according to the availability index, it\u2019s become more available. They point out, according to one submitter, that to make a kilogram of pure meth, you would need 27.8 kilograms of pseudoephedrine medication. At that point, you could probably just cure a lifetime of colds and coughs! In contrast, only 1.75 kilograms of higher-efficiency precursor is needed for the same yield\u20142,430 packets of pseudoephedrine cough medicine to make 1,000 grams of P, and you start to understand why it is that the people who supply these drugs have started bringing it in in more pure forms from overseas rather than going round pharmacies trying to buy up pills that they can cook down into meth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ENone the less, they acknowledge the possibility that some people may try that. And it\u2019s a concern, because methamphetamine is probably\u2014in fact, almost certainly\u2014the worst drug available in New Zealand and doing more social harm than any other drug. That is something that we should be concerned about. And what the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022317d9ca416f54f259b108640431ec589\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Apply that analysis to cannabis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243f8e03a9adb406d9afcc889784ab120\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: And there\u2019s a man here who says, \u201CApply that analysis to cannabis.\u201D But that member has been doing his own trials for far too long!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4c028424f8c4a9fb1e5921af962d332\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think that comment is necessary. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fd3eb72b210470b90aa6fa2027b839c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not necessary. But some of the best things in life, Madam Speaker, aren\u2019t necessary. We just do them anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246d3f34b9e3b4983a997ab474cadd93e\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Like you in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b44575612c7d4e9f8f995dea5217c58f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s still trying to heckle, but I can\u2019t hear clearly what he\u2019s trying to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThere were serious concerns raised about crime and the safety of pharmacists, and one suggestion that was made was that perhaps there should be a register kept, on a nationwide basis, of everybody who buys pseudoephedrine products. That certainly would appear, at face value, to be helpful. At the moment, there is a system that exists called the New\u00A0Zealand ePrescription Service, and increasingly, pharmacists are adopting electronic dispensing, so it may well be that, due to advances in technology, we\u2019re not far off the time when people can actually get a record of every purchase of pharmaceuticals and track patterns of people who are strategically shopping to stockpile pseudoephedrine drugs so they can manufacture methamphetamine. And that might be a very useful thing\u00A0to have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EOn the other hand, there\u2019s strong indications that because, as I was saying earlier, it\u2019s no longer economically viable to make meth out of pseudoephedrine tablets, it\u2019s most likely that that regulation won\u2019t make a great deal of difference. And yet the technology may make it possible soon in any event. Regardless, as the Labour Party, and the majority of the committee as well, have noted the comments I made to the committee, it would seem sensible to give New Zealanders the clear benefits of the convenience of pseudoephedrine cough and cold medicine as soon as possible, while monitoring the situation with a view to more enforcement measures if they turn out to be necessary. And that\u2019s the thing: they may not turn out to be necessary; in which case, over-regulating and overspending on things that aren\u2019t necessary can sometimes be as bad, if not a worse mistake, than testing whether there is truly a problem to be solved, particularly when there\u2019s every reason to believe that there is not a problem anymore with people cooking pseudoephedrine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI hope that all parties will support this legislation. I think it\u2019s a symbol of a few things. Too often, it feels like New Zealand is a place where people are trying to make life harder, where you have to obey rules that don\u2019t make sense, just because that\u2019s the way it is. We want to be a happy and successful country where, if Government makes a mistake and there\u2019s an opportunity to improve people\u2019s lives by admitting that and reversing the mistake, then\u2014you know what?\u2014we do it. And people actually can be free to make the most of their time on earth on their terms, so long as they\u2019re not harming others. And so, when the Government realised that banning pseudoephedrine, banning the good cough medicine, didn\u2019t stop the bad people making P, the right thing to do is to reverse the policy and let people have the medicine that makes them feel better again. It\u2019s just the simple, straightforward thing that anybody in this circumstance would do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EAnd it also shows that we have a Government that is committed to making rules and regulations based on good evidence of what works. In this particular instance, we\u2019ve actually done a 13-year trial, if you like, and what we\u2019ve discovered is that the regulation didn\u2019t work. We didn\u2019t get the benefits of stopping P; we just paid the cost of having to use, frankly, rubbish cough and cold medicine. Well, actually, if something doesn\u2019t work, we just stop doing it, and I think being prepared to be responsible regulators, I hope as the Minister for Regulation at least, will be another hallmark of this Government\u2014that we define the problems we are trying to solve and use proper cost-benefit analysis. I think that, across a whole range of activities, everything from farming to finance to teaching to trying to get decent pharmaceuticals, that\u2019s really going to do a lot for New Zealanders\u2019 ability to make a difference in their own lives and those they care about, to provide for themselves and their families, without being restrained by unnecessary rules and regulations. That seems like the thing that a country that wants people to have long, happy, and healthy lives would do, and that\u2019s what a responsible Government would do in response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo, in conclusion, I\u2019m very pleased that this bill has come through the select committee. I\u2019m grateful to the 169 people and nine organisations who took the time to make a submission to help inform the committee, even in the compressed time frame that they had. And I\u2019m grateful for those members of the select committee who took the time to hear those members of the public and make their recommendations and suggestions so that this bill could benefit from the best of our representative democracy and the parliamentary process in order that we can make better laws. I now look forward\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220e9315ac6f849408d5bdeb2eed1b9e8\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not the best process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aee2e5e065d54444a0ee4d80632b13c6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: And someone said it\u2019s not the best. Well, actually, I think listening to the public and making your views known and deciding where to go\u2014I think that is the best of our democratic process. What is wrong with the Labour Party? Why are they so down this week, is what I want to know. What has gone wrong over there? Maybe they are ill and need some pseudoephedrine! Well, I\u2019ve got good news there too. And what we\u2019re going to see increasingly is a piece of law that is going to make it better for New Zealanders when they feel ill, and with that, I commend this bill to the House. Thank\u00A0you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2321278e11a4214860db2be70989cb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2321278e11a4214860db2be70989cb4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fef3381265ad4641b0ba69a0d3b8dd67\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fef3381265ad4641b0ba69a0d3b8dd67\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, taking that offer of some pseudoephedrine for the Labour Party and saying, \u201CNo, thank you; we\u2019re all quite healthy over here.\u201D, but also saying, \u201CWell, hasn\u2019t this been parliamentary process on speed with this bill?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019re happy to support this bill because we agree that over-the-counter pseudoephedrine will be helpful to many people suffering from coughs and colds, but this bill is rushed, and while we are grateful for the people who did take the time to speak to the Health Committee, we noticed many of them complained about the truncated process that they had to go through, and, no doubt, there are many important voices that we did not get to hear from during that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWe also heard about a number of concerns that I\u2019ll elaborate on in my remarks this evening, that we didn\u2019t have the opportunity to explore fully, or it is clear that officials advising the committee and the Associate Minister of Health (Pharmac) didn\u2019t have the opportunity to explore fully. We want to canvass that, because it is important to realise that, in doing so, as the Minister has acknowledged, we are making more available a drug that has tremendous social impacts in New Zealand because of the tremendous amount of harm if it is converted to meth, and we need to step into that decision responsibly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the chair of the Health Committee, Mr Sam Uffindell, for making sure that within the constraints that Parliament had set, that he extended submissions to the committee to make sure as many people as possible were able to be heard, given the short time line set by the Minister. I also want to acknowledge the collaborative way in which the committee was able to gather evidence together, and it has been one of the highlights of being in Opposition, is the enjoyable experience we get to have on the Health Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge those who submitted. We heard stories, many of which did, indeed, support the bill, but we also heard from people whose lives have been impacted by methamphetamine and who had concerns. I think those concerns are not so easily brushed aside. I understand that the rational actor theory would suggest that, when it is cheaper to get meth imported already produced from overseas, there is no rational reason why someone would steal pseudoephedrine to produce it themselves less efficiently from a pharmacy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EAddiction isn\u2019t rational, and that is the problem that we have, as acknowledged by some of the people with experience working in addictions who submitted to the select committee. There will be people experiencing addiction, moments of desperation, who will think that stealing or purchasing large amounts of pseudoephedrine would be an appropriate way to make meth. I think where I\u2019d like to focus my contribution is on how we mitigate those risks, because those risks are real, and to say that we have a theory that pretends that those risks are not real is reckless lawmaking. We should take them seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThose mitigations are, firstly, the need for pseudoephedrine to be stored securely. The option to do that is available in regulations under the Misuse of Drugs Act, but we are not taking that option in this bill. The select committee heard that the Ministry of Health sought a very limited number of views on this matter. In fact, they told us that they heard from fewer than 10 people on this when they did their consultation on advice that later informed the design of this law, and only a handful of them were people with experience of pharmacy and they were some peak body representatives in pharmacies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ESo the bill currently does not require pseudoephedrine to be restricted, to be stored under lock and key when it\u2019s in a pharmacy. In fact, the advice that the select committee received from the ministry was that their view was that there would be too much sold in order to enable it to be stored under lock and key, as many other controlled drugs are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EYou see the problem this presents. It means that we\u2019re storing larger quantities of a drug that has a street value, of a drug that could be abused, in a less secure space. I believe that that is very concerning and that is a mitigation that has not been taken in this bill. The risk is break-ins to pharmacies and ram raids. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ENow, our committee did discuss these issues, and the view of some was that we trust pharmacists to take that risk. My point would be that the harm of these types of crimes is not just faced by pharmacists or pharmacy owners; it is faced by the community; it is faced by the workers in those stores as well. We have an opportunity to do better on that\u00A0matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe Minister has already addressed the second mitigation, and that is the issue of registers for monitoring the sale and purchase of pseudoephedrine. This allows two things: it allows us to trace back when there\u2019s an investigation going on, to find out if a network is purchasing a lot of pseudoephedrine in order to make meth. It also might allow real-time detection of that, and that is the case of similar registers used in Queensland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister suggests that there is a possibility that the evolving nature of pharmacy IT systems may mean that sort of work is possible in the future, but my view is that this is already a worthy option to pursue. That is the view of many pharmacists who submitted, and I do not accept the assurances of Te Whatu Ora that having some work that might allow this one day is sufficient assurance to say that we are already there. The fact is that there is a risk of abuse with pseudoephedrine being changed into meth, and we are not taking action to enable an important mitigation to find out when that is\u00A0happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe third mitigation that\u2019s really important is the need to make sure that there are appropriate treatment services for those impacted by addiction. There are now widespread community-level services for addiction through the Access and Choice programme, but some of the needs of people with meth addiction would be above what is able to be handled by that primary care - level programme, and so we need to make sure that more specialised meth services continue to be rolled out, because why would we step down this path where, potentially, we risk increasing access to meth in the community without also having a strong offer of treatment services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EAnother related issue that was raised, which was news to me, by the Drug Foundation, was a large number of people with addiction who, in fact, have ADHD, and sometimes in their use of meth\u2014this was not the Drug Foundation\u2019s view, but one could imagine there is some type of self-medication going on there with use of drugs like meth, when Ritalin is so hard to access through legitimate channels in New Zealand. So I think there are two important treatment options we need to strengthen, one being addiction services, the other being access to ADHD treatments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI would like to just go back to the process, because I think we did have an opportunity with this bill to do better than we will by rushing it. It is not just that members of the public in the four-week period only had just over one week to submit\u2014members of the public and organisations\u2014but also that the Ministry of Health\u2019s ability to reach in to solve these practical problems and resolve them when they heard from pharmacists was limited. As I said, they only heard from fewer than 10 representatives when they did their targeted consultation to inform the bill. Also, other options like the possibility of binders\u2014compounds that are added to pseudoephedrine tablets so as to make it harder, to inhibit the production of meth from them\u2014we heard about this possibility from submitters, but the advisers were unable to help us resolve it because they hadn\u2019t had time to really go into the evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003ESo, while we support the appropriateness of people having access to pseudoephedrine for coughs and colds, there are a large number of needs for mitigations that fall outside the scope of this bill that we really need the Government to explore. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fde6963e4f334d4dbe13615bd7fc8424\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fde6963e4f334d4dbe13615bd7fc8424\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. The Green Party is supporting this bill, although we are highly critical of the shortened process. My main question to the ACT members of the Government is: why stop at pseudoephedrine? Why stop at pseudoephedrine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe all know the Misuse of Drugs Act isn\u2019t working, that banning substances isn\u2019t the right way to deal with addiction, and also there is even worse science supporting some of the other potentially very therapeutic substances that are currently class A on the schedule under the Misuse of Drugs Act that could be transformational and helpful to people who are suffering from different mental health and addictions here in New Zealand. The sooner the ACT Party and Government do something to properly review the Misuse of Drugs Act, the better, from my point of view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAs other speakers in this debate have already raised, it was a very shortened select committee process. Despite that, nearly 200 people submitted\u2014well, 169 individuals and nine organisations\u2014and they didn\u2019t have sufficient time to properly consider potentially wider changes to the Misuse of Drugs Act which would have been really helpful. But I, personally\u2014and I think I can speak on behalf of our Green Party colleagues\u2014am pleased that at least it\u2019s being recognised that it is worth tackling changes to the Misuse of Drugs Act when it\u2019s not working and when it\u2019s preventing New Zealanders from getting the treatment that they need, whether that\u2019s treatment for colds\u2014and I am a big fan of pseudoephedrine: when I have a really bad cold, that stuff\u2019s great; it\u2019s a great medical option to have available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EBut, as we well know and as the Green Party has consistently raised in this House, there are many issues with the Misuse of Drugs Act and it is time for us to review it much more widely and to take a science- and harm minimisation - based approach to how we regulate drugs in this country. Of course, there is some harm caused by methamphetamine and other substances, but I think the key recognition is that just banning it and trying to ban the precursors doesn\u2019t solve the problem. We\u2019ve seen that with meth: that meth, with the precursor not being widely available, still became cheaper and more available during that period of time despite being banned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo, on the one hand, we were taking away a reasonable option that many New\u00A0Zealanders would have, no doubt, taken up when they are suffering from colds and flu; yet, on the other hand, we didn\u2019t do enough to help those who were truly suffering from meth addiction. I think there\u2019s a couple of factors that were, of course, reported to the select committee. One is that the key way to address addiction is to treat it as a health issue rather than a criminal issue, firstly. But, secondly, that people are much more susceptible to addiction when they aren\u2019t getting other needs met in their life. So addressing poverty and inequality, will do\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feee2b440a8f412bb3bcb000457470ac\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Childhood trauma.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224937067aeb134e31bb46c79346809256\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and childhood trauma\u2014a lot to support people who are suffering from addiction. Ironically, some of the substances that are banned currently\u2014class A substances that are now available in places like Australia for prescription\u2014are some of the most effective treatments for childhood trauma, PTSD, and addiction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ESo, yeah, I\u2019m really looking to the Government to say you don\u2019t need to rush it through so fast, but there\u2019s a lot more good work that can be done in this space. So we\u2019d love to see a priority of reviewing the Misuse of Drugs Act, treating addiction as a harm minimisation and a health issue rather than as a criminal issue, and making available therapeutic substances that have for too long and with insufficient evidence been denied to New Zealanders. Those are things that really could be potentially beneficial and transformational for New Zealanders. So we support the bill, not the short process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u002203b13eb3ba1f44d7804dee846536b2f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203b13eb3ba1f44d7804dee846536b2f8\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak in support of the Misuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill at its second reading, which is a bill in the name of the Associate Minister of Health the\u00A0Hon\u00A0David\u00A0Seymour. This is a relatively simple bill. It amends the classification of\u00A0pseudoephedrine from a class B2 to a class C3 controlled drug under the Misuse of\u00A0Drugs Act 1975. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EIt removes the ban that was put in place in 2011, and I want to take a moment to thank the Health Committee and the members on it for the pretty collegial and supportive atmosphere. We\u2019ve got along well. We\u2019ve been able to talk through the issues. The Hon\u00A0Dr Ayesha Verrall from the Opposition has been a good person to work with on this, as have all the other members. We have a number of members of the committee here, or ones that have subbed in, and I just want to recognise all the work that you have done in getting this through promptly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EThere are a lot of benefits to this bill. As everyone in Wellington will know, we\u2019ve come down here\u2014I came down from beautiful Tauranga yesterday, where it was a warm, sunny day. I came down to Wellington and it\u2019s considerably colder, and I know that a lot of people will be getting into that winter cold and flu season pretty soon. The good news for them is that in the not too distant future, there will be pseudoephedrine available from pharmacies, so they can take that and then recover their health and wellbeing and get back to work and continue living their lives in a lot more peaceful and enjoyable manner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EAs we know, our patients currently can\u2019t get over-the-counter pseudoephedrine. A prescription was needed, but there were issues with the importation of that. It wasn\u2019t being made available because there wasn\u2019t a big enough market for it and, as a result, the ability of people to get that from a prescription in New Zealand faded away. There has been a bit of talk about alternative medicines that could be used and that have come to market to try and treat people with cold and flu symptoms, but the reality is that they\u2019re just not nearly as effective as pseudoephedrine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EThere have been some concerns raised during the select committee process. Obviously, people know that pseudoephedrine is used as a precursor to methamphetamine production, and that was primarily the reason why it was reclassified back in 2011. The result of that wasn\u2019t what was wanted or anticipated, which would have been a reduction in methamphetamine availability, but the criminal organisations and the gangs found alternative routes to either manufacture or\u2014more likely\u2014import pseudoephedrine from international criminal syndicates into New Zealand. But we haven\u2019t seen a decrease in use; we have possibly seen the opposite. Recent stats have shown that we have seen an increase in use recently, and we have also seen a reasonably considerable drop in the price of methamphetamine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EThe intention of what happened in 2011 hasn\u2019t really led to the outcomes that were intended. What was done back then hasn\u2019t really fitted with what we wanted to see, so bringing this back in, as the Minister is doing at the moment\u2014we don\u2019t believe it\u2019s going to lead to an explosion in methamphetamine consumption. It is recognised that there may be some very small personal manufacture. But the reality is that there\u2019s already those networks available for people to obtain methamphetamine through existing drug channels out there, and this isn\u2019t likely to lead to a dramatic increase in supply, as noted, but only for small-scale personal use. I think the Minister noted quite well, as well, that it would take 2,430 packets of pseudoephedrine to make 1,000 grams of P, and there are much more effective ways that that can be done now, with more intensive forms and much smaller quantities required to produce the ultimate outcome which they\u2019re intending, which is to produce or cook P. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EWe did note that there were a few mitigants, which were discussed. There will still be suppliers who will still need a licence to import. We are looking, in the future, to amend the Medicines Regulations 1984, which will require people to purchase pseudoephedrine face to face. Pharmacists must record information. The committee did also ask that there be a look forward to see whether we could have a system like they have in Australia\u2014where they have a real-time, online registry of everyone who has purchased pseudoephedrine\u2014so that we can be aware of where someone is going around a bunch of pharmacies, purchasing in bulk, and that that can be picked up and mitigated. I will also note that when we look at other comparable countries, the United States, the United\u00A0Kingdom, Canada, and Australia all allow for what this bill is intending to achieve, which is the purchase of pseudoephedrine for cold and flu relief. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ESo we are highly supportive of this, and as this went through a select committee, I will note\u2014and the Opposition have certainly noted\u2014that it was a short process. I took note of that. I did extend that period for several days so that we could have more written submissions come in. We did hear from a number of submitters. We had written submissions and in-person submissions, and also several online submissions, as well. We note that there were no recommended changes to the bill through the select committee period. It was supported unanimously, and it comes back to the House now in that form. We had 169 individual submissions and we had nine from organisations. Most of the organisations were in favour, and that includes industry bodies and harm prevention groups. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EIt was noted around the use of binders by Dr Verrall, which would help to reduce the ability of people to take pseudoephedrine and then cut it or cook it and then develop P from that. But there were a couple of instances where it had been looked at and, ultimately, the results from that were inconclusive, so that hasn\u2019t been something that has been brought into this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to note what Dr Verrall also said around ADHD and people with ADHD having a higher usage of methamphetamine. I think that that does point to us needing to look further into ways to identify people with that and to then make sure that those services such as Ritalin are available, or more readily available, so that they aren\u2019t looking for P to help relieve those symptoms there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d0cadf6ce9045b39115f4b63769eaff\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: What about housing and incomes, as well? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214edfe90e84c411ca9cc0e1eeed9bb38\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: I missed that. But\u2014I\u2019m probably summing up now, Madam Speaker\u2014look, it\u2019s clear that New Zealanders are going to gain benefits from this. I remember that, before 2011, when you could get pseudoephedrine, I had colds and flus, and I did go and purchase pseudoephedrine. I found it remarkably helpful in treating those symptoms and in allowing me to get back to my life, and I know that a lot of New\u00A0Zealanders are going to appreciate having the ability for them to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EThis provides New Zealanders with choice. It also provides pharmacists with choice too, and I must note that pharmacists can choose. Pharmacies can choose whether or not they want to stock pseudoephedrine. If they determine in their capacity that there is an increased risk or a risk that they are not willing to tolerate from stocking pseudoephedrine, that\u2019s fine. They don\u2019t have to stock it, and I think that that is one of the good things about this bill. It does give people choice, it gives pharmacists choice, it gives people and consumers choice, and I think that is a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EI note that the Minister said that this is good legislation and that it allows people to get on with their lives without unnecessary rules and regulations. We will monitor this as it is rolled out and we will see whether more enforcement or regulation is needed, and we can assess that in time. But this is a good, practical bill, and I do hope that it enjoys unanimous support in the House. I commend this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u002205d597ec77784ab4ae55277693cc7c6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205d597ec77784ab4ae55277693cc7c6d\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak in support of Misuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill. I would reiterate the fact that this is a common-sense, practical approach, particularly as I have a cold, and we\u2019re heading into winter. Pseudoephedrine would be incredibly helpful right about now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI suppose I\u2019d go back to putting this into a process of reality check. I was a uniformed sergeant when methamphetamine first made its appearance in South Auckland. The reality was that it was an incredible scourge on our society, and it ran away. The\u00A0complexity of the environment we dealt with, at the time, to create meth labs, to cook, the process of obtaining pseudoephedrine\u2014it was a complex and really difficult environment. The labs themselves were highly volatile, and the cooks were highly sought after and traded commodity to produce the methamphetamine. It wasn\u2019t an easy process. Quickly, methamphetamine took hold. It was logical that we did everything we could do to restrict the ability to create that supply. It was damaging so many lives and so many societies. So, at the time, pseudoephedrine was reclassified. It was logical, it was practical, and it was a process that needed to be followed to achieve some kind of impact in the industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EBut as has been pointed out, drug addicts have incredible difficulties to deal with. They get manipulated, and the market quickly pivoted to create a level of supply that enabled methamphetamine to become the most prevalent drug in New Zealand. We\u2019re now talking about an environment, where, just in January, we had a seizure of 4.8 tonnes that was heading to Australia and New Zealand. We\u2019re now dealing with completed product in the tonnage that is heading to New Zealand. This is something we could never have thought of creating under a pseudoephedrine lab in New Zealand. The fact is it\u2019s cheaper, it is more efficient, and it is easier to supply. I\u2019ll comment on the fact that, you know, yes, we know that when you\u2019re addicted, your drive to achieve what you need is such that you will do desperate things. But I would suggest that purchasing, stealing, obtaining pseudoephedrine in order to set up a lab to cook, when just about everyone will know where meth can be supplied in their communities, and obtaining cash is far simpler than obtaining pseudoephedrine. So, yes, we need to do a lot of work. We need to do a lot of work to control methamphetamine\u2019s impact it has on New Zealand society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EBut that is not going to change with pseudoephedrine being available as a suitable, practical, medical solution for colds and flus. It\u2019s a good medicine. We\u2019ve all endorsed that it is a good medicine, and bringing it back to ready availability is just a common-sense solution. That\u2019s really what this legislation is about. It\u2019s a common-sense solution, because the motivation for making it or classifying it differently has shifted. This doesn\u2019t mean we take the eye off the ball and don\u2019t continue to look at the methods around which we can remove methamphetamine, control it, and reduce its harm on societies, but the prevalence is such that we need different initiatives. I think that the discussion that we\u2019ve had around the risk that pseudoephedrine presents to the creation of methamphetamine\u2014I think that that environment has passed us, and we now have much bigger issues to deal\u00A0with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EAs Minister of Customs, I see daily the reports coming through around the systems and processes that are in place to deliver methamphetamine to New Zealand. That\u2019s not in the form of pseudoephedrine. This is just about fixing what was done. We did it for the right motivations at the time it was done, but now New Zealand has moved on, and the environment has moved on. We need to ensure that we continue to make good medicines available. I acknowledge that there is a range of medicines that, you know, we need to ensure a supply to the market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EBut pseudoephedrine\u2014this is a simple piece of legislation that is being noted. It is encouraging that all parties recognise the importance and the dangers of the drugs that are prevalent in society, and that they support the benefits of pseudoephedrine in recognising that it is suitable to be re-introduced back to New Zealand. The risk it poses in this crime environment is minimal, I would suggest. I think that we are smarter and more intelligent, and we need to be able to pivot quickly and effectively to ensure that we are responding to what New Zealanders need, and heading into winter in this environment\u2014I think it is really important that we work together to change things that are no longer relevant to what is occurring in New Zealand. For that reason, I recommend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220c4a26ded2754c74ad79f7668f96cc16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c4a26ded2754c74ad79f7668f96cc16\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call Debbie Ngarewa-Packer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u00224d0648d184b74b53bd3f6165b2c03a01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d0648d184b74b53bd3f6165b2c03a01\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. I think it\u2019s really commendable that the House is debating solutions for vulnerable people, particularly elderly who will do well by having access to better cold and flu medicines. But what I do want to do is take another step in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI come from communities where the average income for many is around about $29,000\u00A0a year. There is an assumption that those addicts and those people in those desperate situations are following a common-sense approach to their addictions and to their drugs. I come from communities where we see the kids that have fried themselves on synthetics that they\u2019ve mucked around with because Governments\u2014and, actually, the same Government that got rid of this bill in 2011\u2014allowed synthetics to be sold and to come into our communities. There\u2019s an assumption that there is a common-sense approach to how it is that they are going to get into drugs: in any way that they can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ESo when we had this discussion about not harming others, where I come from, in the debates and discussions and the decisions that guide us, is that the potential harm outweighs the common sense to medicinal needs for communities who are obviously living different lives to some of the lives in the communities that we represent. I wish\u2014I wish\u2014that it was as simple. The reality is, we have a massive addiction issue and there hasn\u2019t been the investment into the support in the communities that are the most vulnerable, to address that. So, when we talk about things like this, I can\u2019t help but see those kids and see those families that are doing anything they can to get their hits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EChanging the classification of class B to class C\u2014again, I totally get it, I hear the discussion, and, in fact, went back and looked at the submissions to the Health\u00A0Committee. This is a Government that prides itself in removing bureaucracy, but what we\u2019re going to have now is pharmacists who are going to have to do face-to-face transactions, process records of information, and highlight advice, including counselling and any trends with patients that shouldn\u2019t be taking things. We haven\u2019t really heard what and how the register\u2019s going to be managed\u2014I\u2019m assuming that that will be coming. We have heard, I guess, some versions of what that may look like: customs and police still have powers to control, like it is an illicit drug-use, and they have the licence to import and export. Nothing in there says that there\u2019s any less bureaucracy; in fact, it says that we\u2019re piling back more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EAgain, I just want to put on the side that we still haven\u2019t addressed the massive addiction issue, predominantly in our vulnerable communities, and for us, as M\u0101ori. Yes, again, it\u2019s pragmatic, it makes perfect sense, but this is a drug that is a drug of abuse, and it\u2019s used to produce meth. That is the \u201Cbut\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe will be the only party in the House not supporting it, and it\u2019s on the basis of the \u201Cbut\u201D. I guess, as the smallest party, we\u2019ve always got to have that one party that says, \u201CBut this is what our community looks like, and this is what we\u2019re concerned about.\u201D Meth hasn\u2019t gone away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EOne of the important things, when we go and we ask the kaum\u0101tua and we\u2019re talking, is asking, \u201CWhat would you prefer, that we have access to a really good medicine for you, or we could bring this drug back into your communities?\u201D And we\u2019ve been getting a resounding, \u201CWe don\u2019t want it back.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe supported National\u2014what they did in 2011. In fact, the Prime Minister at the time, John Key, was adamant\u2014in fact, I think, he got robbed by somebody who was looking to get money for P. That\u2019s how bad it is. It hasn\u2019t gone away. The sophistication of the access to it may have gone away for some of your communities, but it certainly hasn\u2019t gone away from ours. It\u2019s good to hear that National sort of admit that, hey, it hasn\u2019t worked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EBut what I do want to do is say that we have seen submissions where recovering P addicts had pleaded, \u201CPlease don\u2019t make it accessible for vulnerable communities.\u201D So, when we look at this, I want to highlight the risks. I want to highlight the risk of organised crimes, even though we\u2019ve been assured that it won\u2019t be to the scale and the sophistication that we\u2019ve previously seen. I want to highlight the increase in bureaucracy, although we\u2019ve been told that that\u2019s not going to be a big deal. I want to highlight the pressure on pharmacists, and communities attached to those pharmacists. I want to also highlight the \u201Cback on track\u201D to risks to communities that are vulnerable and don\u2019t have any other way of getting over some of the pain that they feel economically. But, most importantly, we don\u2019t have enough addiction support in vulnerable communities. I do want to leave that with this House to think about. We won\u2019t be supporting this Bill. Kia ora r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002275d1b7e174f7422da08fd1870d0ebe79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275d1b7e174f7422da08fd1870d0ebe79\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure and privilege to speak to the Misuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill, and this is a bill that we\u2019re supporting. I want to reflect that I by no means am the only person with a close family history of having loved ones who have abused meth, but I\u2019m certainly one of those people who has really, really close experience with family members having been addicted to meth, and I\u2019ve seen firsthand the harm and the destruction of life that this substance can cause. Because of that, it\u2019s incredibly clear to me how the criminalisation of substances hasn\u2019t worked to actually support people, neither to stop getting them addicted nor as part of the recovery journey. Growing up in Tijuana in, basically, the heart of the war on drugs, I\u2019ve seen firsthand how the war on drugs, and the war on meth more specifically, has failed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo this bill presents an opportunity to actually change the debate to one that centres our conversation on issues around public health, on how we can actually take an evidence-based approach to support people so that they\u2019re not ravaged by the harm that substances like meth can cause in our communities. This bill alone won\u2019t actually end that harm, but what it will do is prevent people from actually being further criminalised and being put into a cycle where they\u2019re left at risk of poor outcomes because of the harms that incarceration causes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EYet I think where the gap lies\u2014and I want to acknowledge submitters who raised issues of this nature\u2014is around ensuring that we have adequate addiction support services, making sure that we actually address some of the social determinants of health that continue being completely not addressed, such as good incomes, good housing, connected communities. Those are the things that actually create protective factors for people to not face the harms that substances can cause. And it is not to say that if you\u2019ve got good incomes and good housing, you\u2019re completely immune to, say, for example, being harmed by meth, but those things actually go a long way to preventing people from having their lives destroyed because of substances. Also, when you don\u2019t have good incomes and good housing, you\u2019re way more at risk of meth actually ruining your life. So this bill will at least prevent a degree of criminalisation that would\u2019ve caused more harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think, to the point around some of the speakers who\u2019ve talked about how pharmacists will be at the front lines of the change in how pseudoephedrine is accessed, I think it\u2019s really important to recognise the role of pharmacies as front-line health services who are actually sometimes the first and, often, the only point of call for our communities\u2014particularly those on low incomes, formerly incarcerated people, gang-affiliated communities\u2014to deal with health services. Yes, pharmacists will be the ones who will be at the front lines supporting our communities through this change, and, therefore, we need a Government that backs pharmacists to actually be resourced to then deliver these substances to the community and to deliver health services to the community in a way that remains safe. We know, as it is, pharmacies and the pharmacists that run them are under increased pressure yet have the potential to actually take the pressure off other parts of our health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI want to end by reflecting that the approach that has been taken on pseudoephedrine, and particularly in its relationship to meth, is one that I think the Government should look at with other substances. We should take a consistent, evidence- and health-based approach to drugs. We shouldn\u2019t just cherry-pick the one that has a populist tone to it, and actually make sure that we look at the same evidence that we use for this bill and translate it to the other substances that are wreaking havoc in our community because we\u2019ve chosen to criminalise it. To some of the Government members who spoke about, for example, the importing of substances due to cartel activity, there are opportunities to curb some of that by ensuring we take a health approach to substances. So my ask of this Government, by having a bill that many of us in the House can get behind, is to follow suit and actually look at all the other substances that we criminalised and put a health lens to them so that we can support our communities and stop people becoming incarcerated and their lives being ruined because of an outdated approach to drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4eb35b944cb44e4aec8bec92fd5be0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4eb35b944cb44e4aec8bec92fd5be0b\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the Misuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s great to hear support from around the House. I do note that doesn\u2019t include Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EWe all know what it\u2019s like to have a cold. Typically, we probably will experience two or four colds a year, and that probably equates to about 14 to 40 days of feeling like absolute rubbish, each year. Prior to 2004, you could actually buy some great medication here in New Zealand, which had an active ingredient known as pseudoephedrine that would actually make you feel at least a little bit alive during those times. But, of course, I will just point out, these medications are still available in Australia, the UK, the US, and most of Europe. We\u2019ve heard a lot about its role as a precursor for meth, but it\u2019s also important to acknowledge the valuable role that pseudoephedrine plays in relieving nasal congestion\u2014whether that\u2019s been due to a cold or a sinus infection, it\u2019s one of the most uncomfortable symptoms you can experience during a cold. Therefore, I think this is one of the more highly effective decongestants, and it helps relieve that symptom of pain and pressure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EI know a lot of people are going to claim that we\u2019re only dealing with the symptoms, but I think you just need to be a young parent battling a cold when your toddler also has a cold to know that this is kind of magical medication, because you need to function not only for your own good but also for the good of your family. Additionally, a number of other medications we take, without batting an eyelid, also just treat our symptoms and not really cure the underlying causes. I think this is probably something we need to remember next time we take some Panadol.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EI am a member of the Health Committee, and I do just want to acknowledge all the submitters that took the time to make submissions to the Health Committee. We heard from a whole range of people, including some industry bodies, including from pharmacists\u2014and they really do care about their patients and they want to have the most effective medications they can distribute to their patients. And that is the reason why a lot of pharmacists want to stock it. I will just also note that pharmacists could choose not to stock it, if they felt it was a security threat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EWe have heard, in opposition to this bill, that it would create a lot of bureaucracy, but I will just point out this is like any controlled medication that a pharmacist needs to\u00A0distribute: they need to have that face-to-face contact, and there\u2019s paperwork and prescriptions to go along with it. This would not require a prescription and it would allow people just to walk into the pharmacy and be able to procure it once they\u2019ve had\u00A0consultation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve heard a whole range of issues. One of them, of course, is the supply and the availability of methamphetamine. We have already heard that since a ban of this, precursive, that we still have a problem with meth and it actually has increased. I think one of the members already has alluded to a shipment of in the vicinity of 400 tonnes was intercepted before coming to Australia and New Zealand. I will just once again point out that it takes 2,430 packets of pseudoephedrine medication to make 1 kilogram of meth. I think we can probably do the maths there, and you\u2019d need an awful lot of medication. But, of course, that level of supply coming into the country has meant the price of meth has dropped a lot, so any supply from pseudoephedrine would be at a fairly low level. But, of course, it is important to note that there will be some people that may try and make meth from the pseudoephedrine, and we do need to make sure we can do all we can in our powers to prevent that, because meth is a scourge on our country and a number of people do take it. So, with that, I think this is a great medication for people who have colds, we all know what it\u2019s like, and I therefore will commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u00225423ad920da244909eaab8cccf57f449\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225423ad920da244909eaab8cccf57f449\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Prior to coming to Parliament some years ago, I had a broadcasting business\u2014a television production company\u2014and a really good, strong partnership in that with my business partner, who very sadly got into meth and, within six months, had committed suicide. So I bring that to the debate this evening as the context from which I speak and also as someone who, like the Green Party member has had, has seen the impacts of methamphetamine within my own family situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo this is a balance and a consideration that I take very seriously about whether allowing this bill to go through is, on balance, going to be more beneficial than harmful. I have to say that, on reflection, I think it does produce good public interest with no great risk of harm\u2014but with some caveats around that, as my colleague Dr Ayesha Verrall has\u00A0said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo the benefits are obviously the mitigation of the cold and flu symptoms that people feel. There\u2019s also the access to treatment\u2014because on this side of the House, we\u2019re mindful that GP visits cost money; that can be a barrier to getting treatment and even getting prescriptions can be a barrier. So, in that regard, we see having access to this medication is a really good thing. But we do have issues with the process. In my view, there has been a bit of an executive overreach, once again, just through the truncated process that\u2019s occurred. But more sinister, perhaps, is that I think the National Government has shown quite a casual and cavalier attitude to the methamphetamine issue generally through the way they have approached this process\u2014and I\u2019ll speak to that soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EFor a start, around process, it is unusual for a Minister to make these kinds of decisions that Medsafe, a group of experts, would normally make: to declassify or reclassify a medication. The Associate Minister of Health (Pharmac) did appear before the Health\u00A0Committee and we asked him questions on this quite closely, and he, basically, admitted that it was a political decision to reclassify. He also said that the original decision to classify it as prescription-only was political as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWhat concerned me\u2014and it was interesting that the Minister quoted our dissenting opinion in the select committee report as being what he took to be flattery\u2014the reason that we extended the commentary on his contribution was because he said to us it was better to focus on evidence that was available rather than to try and get more evidence about impacted communities. I think that\u2019s a really worrying attitude towards the meth problem. I think it does bring to bear some of the concerns raised by Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori about the most marginalised; the most vulnerable communities, some of whom did have time to put in submissions\u2014very thoughtful submissions and very clearly set out submissions\u2014about the devastating impact on their communities to their own lives from some of them. Also, the fact that drug addicts are not rational, that addiction is\u00A0not a rational thing, and we are only hazarding a guess when we apply a kind of rational cost-benefit analysis to whether meth is cheaper from the border or whether people will produce it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe other element to this was that we included comments where the Minister had said that shopping around did not work\u2014the shopping-around registers that were used in Australia didn\u2019t work\u2014but he was going to keep an eye on this over this winter. Well, I\u2019m not sure how the Minister can keep an eye on whether organised crime is shopping around for pseudoephedrine if the registers are not there\u2014it simply cannot be done. So I\u2019m not sure what other intel he has on that, but I\u2019d be really interested to see what process he is going to use to keep an eye on the shopping-around question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EAs has been mentioned, the select committee process was truncated. The health policy development process appeared to be truncated, and that concerns me because we have the appearance of a democratic kind of process\u2014whether it\u2019s gone to select committee\u2014but submitters only had a week or so to submit. The questions that we asked were probably deeper, I think, than the officials had expected us to ask; they had to go away and come back. When we asked them closely about the numbers of pharmacists they had consulted, we were told it was fewer than 10. Again, further questioning made us aware that the particular focus group\u2014they couldn\u2019t even say how many fewer than 10 people there were in that group, so it could have been only one or two pharmacists where the consultation was relying on that as being the voice of pharmacy. To me, that is just inadequate, and it shows the kind of time pressures that they were under from their\u00A0Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI really did appreciate the thoughtful submissions from submitters, particularly the New Zealand Drug Foundation, who do such an excellent job to provide evidence-based and very clearly set out rationale for their thinking. They did support this bill, which has helped to sway my opinion in favour of supporting it, but, equally, we did hear from people who had experienced meth in their lives as well, and they did have an impact on us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo the mitigations they suggested around Te Ara Oranga, the rehabilitation programmes being extended, are really important. We heard from the Drug Foundation that close to 50 percent of those who are incarcerated on meth-related charges have an ADHD diagnosis. I would add to the calls from my colleague the Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall that not only do we need to make treatment easier for ADHD, we certainly need to make diagnosis cheaper and more easily available. It\u2019s currently only through a psychiatrist\u2014very expensive\u2014or long waiting times in the public health system. So we don\u2019t know what the true figure is of those incarcerations and the role that ADHD plays, not only in meth use and purchase but also in crime generally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI think there are issues around the IT that we\u2019re being told is being developed that will help us to monitor some of the risks around this. We have no timing on that, and that is why we, as a select committee, have said that we plan to follow up with the Ministry of Health and Te Whatu Ora on this. We expect to receive an update on how they\u2019re progressing with the implementation of a monitoring system by the end of this year. I\u2019d just really like that recorded in the Hansard, because I, for one, will be making sure that we do get some information from them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EBut I think the real issue here is seeing the truncated process and the quite casual way that the concerns of impacted communities have been dealt with by the Minister and some members opposite, that we\u2019re not really looking at the real issue of what is this National Government doing to address meth. It\u2019s interesting that the Minister of Customs has just spoken to address her real concerns, and yet her ministry right now is going through voluntary redundancies. There are 1,200 Customs staff throughout New Zealand, and the New Zealand Public Service Association has said that this redundancy process, these cuts to that public service are hamstringing Customs\u2019 ability to keep harmful drugs out of New Zealand. So what are they doing about that? In an environment of 6.5 percent cuts, and the same to policing, what are they doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI would just follow that up with some words that were read in this House in 2009 where a member of this House said, \u201C\u2018P\u2019 is a seriously addictive, viciously destructive drug. It\u2019s hugely damaging to those who take it and the people who share their lives. It comes hand in hand with violence. It allows gangs and organized crime to flourish. It entices young people into criminal careers. P hurts not just users and their families but also law-abiding New Zealanders who suffer from the crime it creates.\u201D Those words were from the Rt Hon John Key, the then Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from the Minister of Customs tonight that that problem has ballooned. We have heard that this Government wants to make cold and drug medication available. That\u2019s great; we support that, but our question to this National-led Government is: what are you doing about the real issue of meth so that it isn\u2019t coming in cheaper, so that young people aren\u2019t getting into meth, so that it isn\u2019t affecting all of our communities, including my own down in Taieri, and so that parties, like the M\u0101ori Party, are concerned to even allow the pseudoephedrine change to go through? We are not seeing leadership on the meth issue, we are not seeing leadership on drugs, we are not seeing the changes that we need to make sure that the gangs are disempowered. That is the real question before this House tonight, but, having said that, I will support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022 data-id=\u002227e4b54fa55744648026bb425c475d8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227e4b54fa55744648026bb425c475d8c\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Before I start my speech, I would like to acknowledge all the members of the Health Committee for their time and effort on this bill and also for their constructive feedback as well. This is a perfect example of members of Parliament working together to achieve the best outcome for all New\u00A0Zealanders. Let\u2019s go back to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003EThis bill reclassifies pseudoephedrine from a class B2 to a class C3 drug, controlled drugs, under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 so that the cold and flu products containing pseudoephedrine can be sold in pharmacies without a prescription. This allows New\u00A0Zealanders access to one of the most effective cold and flu medicines and will help to improve people\u2019s welfare when they are unwell. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003ESo, during the select committee process, we received submissions from 169\u00A0individuals and nine organisations. Most organisations, including pharmaceutical industry boards and drug harm prevention groups, indicated support for this bill in their submissions. As an elected MP, I also go the extra mile to gather more information and feedback from my local pharmacies and pharmacists. The overall feedback is very positive and they are supportive of this bill. I also need to acknowledge there\u2019s some concern raised by the pharmacists and pharmacy owners as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003ESo one of the major concerns may be the production of meth using pseudoephedrine. So, actually, during the select committee process, we have been informed that there is little value to people interested in commercially supplying meth, and there are now cheaper and easier ways to manufacture it. This means that making pseudoephedrine products more available will have little effect on the New Zealand drug market. This position is also supported by advice we received from the Ministry of Health, which consulted with the New Zealand Police, the New Zealand Customs Service, and the National Drug Intelligence Bureau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003EAlso, another concern is about the safety of pharmacists, of it being misused. But let me remind everyone here, pseudoephedrine will remain a controlled drug and can only be prescribed by an authorised pharmacist prescriber who has undergone the required training and education. This will equip pharmacists with tools to identify and refuse service to anyone showing the intent to improper use of pseudoephedrine. Furthermore, according to this bill, the importation of pseudoephedrine by mail and online shipping will also rightly remain unlawful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003EAlso, we got a lot of concern on how to assess the safety for pharmacists as well. So we\u2019ve been informed that pharmacists are not required to stock pseudoephedrine products, and we support pharmacists\u2019 rights to make this choice. We trust pharmacists to make judgments about what is best for them and their customers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003EAlso, we were talking about monitoring the sales of pseudoephedrine products. We are pleased to learn that the Ministry of Health is working with Health New Zealand to explore options for improving the uptake and standardisation of a nationwide electronic dispensing system. This allows us to monitor the sales of pseudoephedrine products in real time, and that can minimise the improper use of the drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003ETherefore, I think this bill actually strikes the right balance between accessing and\u00A0protecting the public against improper use. Therefore, I\u2019m here to support this bill. Thank\u00A0you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00229e05251f1935490698421a9e28786cdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e05251f1935490698421a9e28786cdf\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I was just commenting that all this talk about colds made me feel like my nose was running, so excuse me if I feel like some pseudoephedrine. We\u2019ve heard a robust debate tonight about various aspects of a bill that most people are supporting, and I think that if we sum that up somehow, the three themes are that the bill will be supported; however, the process, to date, has been truncated, and it\u2019s a real missed opportunity to have not had a more robust process so that some of the potential risks that have been identified could have been mitigated or that the committee and this House could have had the benefit of hearing from people, hearing from experts, having some more information from agencies and departments into how they may have put together some sort of support around those potential risks. And the third theme, I think, which has come through quite clearly even more recently is that within a culture of cuts, how can we be sure that when these agencies and these departments are facing pressure, they don\u2019t drop the ball with some of those assumptions that are being made\u00A0tonight?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve said, Labour will be supporting this bill. It\u2019s in line with our history, as has been demonstrated in the previous Parliament, of being a fan of flexible regulation in relation to medicines. Also, it\u2019s congruent with our previous moves towards encouraging pharmacies to do more in their space and to take on more treatments, as demonstrated by both the Therapeutic Products Act and the minor ailments scheme of the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EBut, as previous colleagues have said, I think those three main risks\u2014and I won\u2019t go over them in great detail, but how will we ensure that pseudoephedrine is safely stored? We\u2019ve heard the fact that it\u2019s going to be in such quantities that it\u2019s not even viable or practical to put it under lock and key as we do with many other controlled drugs. I think the issue around tracking it and the issue around having that online, real-time register, as they do in Queensland, is a real missed opportunity for this Parliament not to have sought more information about that. You know, that\u2019s an innovation that could have been used in various different ways, and I think that\u2019s a real shame that we didn\u2019t take that on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAlso, we\u2019ve heard particularly from the M\u0101ori Party and the Green Party about the need to never lose sight of the fact that we are here to look at the drivers of addiction, and what are the plans for treating those underlying addictions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s also been a lot of talk about common sense, that there\u2019s a common-sense approach, and whilst that might sound good, common sense has never been a huge leader in terms of things always turning out well, hence the fact that it is our job to not assume that people are rational actors, to not assume that when we\u2019re talking about addiction and when we\u2019re talking about comorbidities, with people with ADHD being the largest consumers of meth, for instance, there\u2019s this linear assumption that a rational decision-making process will take place. So I think that that is a shame. However, we will support this bill, because, at the end of the day, you know, it is important that people are able to get the medications that they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EMy final reservation is the fact that we\u2019ve talked about pseudoephedrine as being a decongestant, which it is. It\u2019s also got that stimulatory side effect which just peps us up and helps us feel better without necessarily addressing the underlying cold. Hopefully, people don\u2019t go back to the good old days where they just went to work and spread their germs around everywhere. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cee7e7a3222647f696c9939ed8e15e6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cee7e7a3222647f696c9939ed8e15e6b\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E I stand in front of you today to support the second reading of this amendment bill, for three reasons. One, I support this bill because it addresses the current challenges faced by New Zealanders who really just needed to get some effective and easy and fast-acting medicine so that they can manage their general health and wellbeing. Secondly, I also support this bill because it\u2019s actually very straightforward: it\u2019s just restoring the settings, and matches a range of other countries\u2014such as the UK, US, Canada, and Australia. It\u2019s very straightforward because, ultimately, it is still the pharmacies who have the ultimate choice to stock or not to stock this product. They decide, whether it\u2019s based on economical, welfare, safety, business, or operational reasons, whether they will stock it. And my third reason to support this bill is there is evidence that we\u2019ve seen that it has limited scale of risk, even if the products are made available over the counter. So, with those three reasons, I support this legislation to the\u00A0House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022 data-id=\u00225eb8cf9115d04ab59a29535bbac1c91d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225eb8cf9115d04ab59a29535bbac1c91d\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019d like to speak to the Misuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill. Twenty-five years since methamphetamine burst on to the scene in New Zealand, I think you\u2019d be hard-pushed to find someone who hasn\u2019t seen the devastation that it delivers. I was living in Auckland at the time and I saw it firsthand: the horrible toll it took and the horrible toll it continues to take to this day. It\u2019s doing huge damage to individuals, to families, and to communities\u2014and it\u2019s damage that is irreversible in many cases. So we need to be certain that decisions we make don\u2019t exacerbate that, and that requires really good political process and due diligence at select committee. We need to be careful about speeding things up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got an article here that I\u2019ve been reading from the New Zealand Herald that talks about some of the risks associated with bringing pseudoephedrine products back into pharmacies. It says here, and I quote, \u201CLuxon said [that] the risk of pharmacies being targeted had been a matter discussed by Seymour and Police Minister Mark Mitchell to ensure the issue was monitored. Luxon\u2019s comments appeared to surprise Mitchell, who said he and Seymour hadn\u2019t had any conversations about it but assumed the Prime\u00A0Minister was referring to communication between Mitchell\u2019s office and Seymour\u2019s office. The Herald has confirmed no such communication occurred between the two offices and the only correspondence Luxon could be referring to was conversations held in Cabinet. Nevertheless, Mitchell said he had received no advice from police expressing concern about the ban reversal and its potential to lead to a crime spike against pharmacies.\u201D\u2014no advice\u2014\u201CHe said pharmacies wouldn\u2019t receive financial aid for security once the ban had gone, but accepted that could be revised if a problem arose.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae6036c0459c4d1c8e46d480535c4685\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Irrelevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3d6f4e2e05c46259af9631e9fa1f551\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: So I think it\u2019s critical to the conversation, as opposed to irrelevant. I think our local pharmacies need to be looked after and protected, and I think that taking this action without having the conversations with the appropriate representative agencies and organisations places them at greater risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EOne of the members earlier said that some pharmacists can choose not to stock pseudoephedrine. Sure, that\u2019s true. But do people find that out when they pop in to purchase some pseudoephedrine, or do they find that out halfway through a ram raid when they\u2019ve already done the damage to the store, they\u2019ve already smashed in the window, and they do even more damage looking for the product that they\u2019re there to get? So these are just some of the risks\u2014some of the risks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ESo, in recognition of those, I think it is crucial that the select committee process should have been able to examine the issues and hear from submitters. What we\u2019ve heard instead is that it was a very rushed process. They missed the chance to hear valuable evidence and there was a very small number of pharmacy representatives involved in that conversation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EThe Government evidence about no increase in meth-related crime doesn\u2019t seem that enough investigation was carried out there. I think what we\u2019re looking at there is the provision for safe storage of pseudoephedrine within pharmacies and whether small businesses\u2014and we know the importance of those small businesses like chemists and pharmacists in our communities, and we saw through the pandemic how crucial those businesses became to the health and protection of our communities. So it\u2019s fine to say that those businesses don\u2019t get support, but if they don\u2019t get support, then they place themselves at greater risk by not being able to have pseudoephedrine in safe storage inside their premises. I think that\u2019s an unfair risk to place our small businesses in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EI think there\u2019s also unanswered questions around how regulation will work under the Medicines Act, and I think there\u2019s a missed opportunity of a register for pharmacists. The bigger question is what this Government has planned to address meth addiction in our communities. So my plea would be: take the time to get it right, to ensure the benefits outweigh the potential harm, make sure there are some constructive policies in the pipeline that actually address the very real concerns of pseudoephedrine and meth addiction. So, whilst I support this bill, I reiterate the need to support individuals, families, and communities affected by P.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u00226ac07a24901c4ccc9dff981aa6001c01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ac07a24901c4ccc9dff981aa6001c01\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of this Misuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill. I\u2019m delighted to be able to support it, given that I remember, as a doctor, how incredibly frustrating it was when my patients could no longer access this medication. Also, I was very concerned, when the effective ban came in, that there would be no access to the only really scientifically validated treatment to prevent barotrauma to the tympanic membrane for those who are flying frequently, like pilots. Some of my patients had to end up sourcing pseudoephedrine from overseas to be able to protect their ears when they were constantly going up and down and getting different pressure changes in their ears. So this is the only medication that has ever been shown to be effective in adults at reducing that risk, and the thing that prevents complete rupture of the tympanic membrane\u2014that\u2019s been shown on systematic review. So it is a very effective medication.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EAs a lot of people have noted around the House, there are potential problems, of course, and we have to look at the potential mitigations that we can go through for that. I note that the idea of the register is a very useful one. I also have been one of those people who\u2019ve seen the effects of meth in family members, and it is a scourge on our society. That being said, this is a very sensible approach to something that hadn\u2019t made any difference to that scourge, and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222cddd915c78f499f932109bc43eebf80\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Misuse of Drugs (Pseudoephedrine) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 117\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000841\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00224379dd20cea543c898c9da9814ff5c58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224379dd20cea543c898c9da9814ff5c58\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair. The House will adjourn until 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202403196314a612657e485eb860ddfd7f0e8392000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"