"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022677b37c7eaaf4711bd6cf079b58906de\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 10 APRIL 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd8c12a61ea6424498e04acb0e2cce96\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 10 APRIL 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221410961b934a4e0fa289538fab592048\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc1e9c48b2b94180981c9c2cf1a249f7\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022021f4a99f2654ee0b795f4aa46c4c9e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022021f4a99f2654ee0b795f4aa46c4c9e4\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dcc3290a9f0c4b329b2ec0fd9974c20c\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022266fde96b5b44a1c997626fa23075c74\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00220f688bf7da4746ea920ce55ac56f2c45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f688bf7da4746ea920ce55ac56f2c45\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb81b3f0e3984edd9a9700826b3d3e86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb81b3f0e3984edd9a9700826b3d3e86\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Safeguarding Children requesting that the House review and amend the Children\u2019s Act 2014 to broaden and strengthen its capacity to protect New Zealand\u2019s children from abuse \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Rhodes Farming Partnership requesting that the House undertake an inquiry into virtual fencing \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Carjam Online Ltd requesting that the House urge the Government to reverse the decision to begin charging for free data as part of the planned \u201CFees review\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00223452042cec3b467f87108d1356775261\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223452042cec3b467f87108d1356775261\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. No papers have been delivered. A select committee report has been delivered for presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022bfadce1bdb66481ca3f2ef5bbd36b0cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bfadce1bdb66481ca3f2ef5bbd36b0cf\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Report of the Officers of Parliament Committee on the alterations to the 2023/24 appropriations for Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen, and Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, and the 2024-25 draft budgets for the Office of the Auditor-General, the Office of the Ombudsman, and the Office of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022706aa903c7aa462081ddfef343299614\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022706aa903c7aa462081ddfef343299614\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That report is set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223aae892cb4fc4633a740731330f1a9f5\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222f5ac7139afa43029050f7bef74c79ee\u0022\u003EClosure of Newshub\u2014Ministerial Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6a02e0c59024477b63abb560af68ab1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6a02e0c59024477b63abb560af68ab1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I\u2019ve received a letter from the Hon Willie Jackson seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the ministerial response to the confirmed closure of Newstalk\u2014oh, sorry; of Newshub. [Interruption] Yeah, turn off the alarms! I should read that again. I\u2019ve received a letter from the Hon Willie Jackson seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the ministerial response to the confirmed closure of Newshub. The member\u2019s authentication shows that the Government has said it is working towards a solution. Urgent debates are a way of holding the Government to account for its actions, not for things that might happen in the future\u2014Speakers\u2019 rulings 216/4 and 222/2. The application\u2019s therefore declined. I make this announcement now because the general debate is an opportunity for members to raise matters of concern that may be organisationally useful to know this decision now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f63afcee82034184a39919ce1206c9b1\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a3584c20196747f7beb3e18866b8a631\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022744669d3d84648a49f28e1109360ed60\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00224f8d74b1221141eb8c7e409b76ec9b1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f8d74b1221141eb8c7e409b76ec9b1d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u002205a76d39e04e4e78b2a1a8ea6070eb62\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205a76d39e04e4e78b2a1a8ea6070eb62\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do, and especially our announcement of new targets for at least 80 percent of students regularly attending school and 80 percent of year 8 students at or above the expected curriculum level for their age in reading, writing, and maths. These are critical things to make sure that our kids can get the quality education they have and can follow the dreams that they have. Finally we have a Government that\u2019s getting New Zealand back on track, getting our kids back to school, and making sure they\u2019re going to do well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7c549fbd9604ef6afabea8ec646fae0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he say yesterday that the Suicide Prevention Office would remain open, when the Ministry of Health officials were saying at the same time that it wouldn\u2019t? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220de21fa31f534009ae39b97246d80805\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said yesterday, the Ministry of Health said that they did not adequately brief the Minister. The Minister has made it very clear the functions of the Suicide Prevention Office will remain open.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022864bb704c1014d14a8b22f47b71d7981\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Were any Ministers in his Government briefed on the Ministry of Health\u2019s proposal to wind up the Suicide Prevention Office before it became public knowledge?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022880bd5ed618849d49d7a7200b11e2631\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I don\u2019t know how to be any clearer: we\u2019ve had the Ministry of Health come out and say they did not adequately brief the Minister. Within a very quick and short period of time, the Minister responded by saying he wanted the functions of the Suicide Prevention Office to remain, and they will remain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9926daca6aa49c1bf82430b49346797\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the Prime Minister might have missed my question. I was asking about any Ministers in his Government. Of course, there are multiple Ministers of Health. The Minister that he\u2019s referring to is not the Vote Minister; that is the Minister of Health. I was asking him whether any Ministers in his Government had been briefed on the proposal before it become public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ccef252956e4691a31c97b09ca4a44f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think he probably did answer that, but he could perhaps say something else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ec0da4813f04d0fb675963475883fcc\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, I feel like I have answered it. I\u2019ve answered it yesterday; I\u2019m answering it again today. As I said, the Ministry of Health said they did not adequately brief the Minister. The Minister of Mental Health has come out and said that he wants the functions of the Suicide Prevention Office to remain and they will remain. That\u2019s the situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b91895295d54faea703a98f8062cbc9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Minister of Health or any other Minister in his Government briefed on the ministry\u2019s proposals before they were made public?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec561d1011fc438c93608a766f591222\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227df4b53a1b2a4bc9b56f3d27ff05887c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did Ministry of Health officials just yesterday say that the role of the director of the Suicide Prevention Office will not be filled, other roles in the Suicide Prevention Office will be cut, and the work of the office would be integrated into other ministry work, which to most people sounds like the office is being wound up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b081c4003bc429a8f64300936a58092\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I can reassure you, the Minister has been very clear to say that the functions of the Suicide Prevention Office will remain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222120a0448f5b4623aa781df6d0b20288\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Will he guarantee that his Government\u2019s proposal to cut jobs from the Ministry of Health, including from the tobacco regulation team, will not lead to an increase in youth smoking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fe8cc1034a0456ea7d0a176f8d4fcd7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We are determined as a Government to deliver on the smoke-free 2025 targets. As that member well knows, we\u2019ve had good progress in the last 12 months, and we\u2019re going to march towards a 5 percent daily smoker target under smoke-free 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7e03b17e13c498d9f38436ec736f745\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Will he guarantee that his Government\u2019s proposal to cut 6.5\u00A0percent from the budget of Customs will not lead to longer lines at airports, delays for our importers and exporters, and more illicit drugs entering New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b2c1833592647acb920916cd89c8443\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I can say to that member is that we finally have a Government that can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can end the wasteful spending, we can prioritise front-line services, we can deliver tax relief for low- and middle-income workers\u2014folk that that member\u2019s party used to care about\u2014and we can make sure we can grow this economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e37f2e681af24e879828f0208937c136\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That can\u2019t possibly come anywhere close to addressing the question that I had asked the Prime Minister. I asked him whether he would guarantee that there wouldn\u2019t be more illicit drugs coming into the country, longer lines at airports\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208e5e8f95aa34abf8674a89941eb8d1b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know what you asked him, and that is the problem. You\u2019re asking him\u00A0to give a guarantee which is in the nature of a yes/no answer, and I ruled those out yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230e67dba971d4e3a95c7e9a8788bf28e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but he at least needs to address the question. I admit I can\u2019t make him say yes or no, but he at least needs to talk about the question that was asked, as opposed to whatever he feels like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226152dbe330a74aa991bc8a7f4e8b6d79\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to debate it with you, but I don\u2019t think asking someone to guarantee something and then saying they must address that is in any way different from asking for a yes or no answer. Please ask another supp. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5366eb550c441dab8a80a21b8446abd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Will he guarantee that his proposal to cut 6.5 percent from the Customs budget won\u2019t lead to longer times at airports, won\u2019t lead to delays for our importers and exporters, and won\u2019t lead to more illicit drugs entering New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bd1265d63144172a5d32b52b133c146\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I can reassure that member is that this\u2019ll be a Government that will rebuild our economy, restore law and order, and deliver better public services in health and education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220483046bf9d343c696b99e35283985c7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00227d050a651ec04e049bf2fb53f7cf8f01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d050a651ec04e049bf2fb53f7cf8f01\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent announcements has she made about tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa4003dfb13740ffbcd628fe6c73a194\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa4003dfb13740ffbcd628fe6c73a194\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The answer to this question is that two weeks ago I released the Government\u2019s Budget Policy Statement. This confirmed that there will be personal income tax relief in the Budget, and it noted that New Zealanders have not seen any changes to personal income rates and thresholds since 2010, apart from Labour\u2019s introduction of a higher top tax rate. Now, for 14 years, people have been taxed more and more as their incomes have risen, much of that due to inflation. This Government will start to address that in Budget 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fed7eb9dc4a74b4883d01522171879e3\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What have been the consequences of not adjusting tax brackets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255c25cc635874159a5d1edbdddf0e165\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I can give the House an example, because I\u2019m acutely aware that there are members of this House who adamantly oppose tax reduction for\u00A0working people. In 2011, the median full-time wage and salary worker earned $48,000\u00A0and paid 15.5 percent of their income in tax. Today, the median full-time wage and salary worker earns $73,400.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233203ab9ca8541eab0bfc1a4125edb8e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s because wages are going up\u2014that\u2019s a great thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d61102fb53f4b4ebfb64c5816882997\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: He may not like it, but he should listen to the fact, because today that wage earner pays 20.6 percent of their income in tax, as compared to 15.5\u00A0percent in 2011. In other words\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6e15ea8780a408a81fe3551e3c5a1dc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t like growing wages\u2014they don\u2019t like growing wages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d31453d198d0400fabe121a6bdeb65f8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and, actually, the Leader of the Opposition should listen rather than interrupt\u2014the average tax rate for someone who by definition is right in the middle of the income distribution has gone up by more than five percentage points, and that has happened because of the neglect and indifference of what long ago was known as the party of the worker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1ccb6d1126b4404a3cda5323d1262e4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Government continues on a daily basis to directly challenge your ruling as the Speaker, and that was another blatant example of it. Not only did you not stop Nicola Willis for a blatant attack on the previous\u00A0Government but you actually allowed her to deliver a speech rather than an answer to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be349e03003b4698a3d0930feb611700\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, with all due respect, there was quite a lot of interjection going on\u00A0during that time, and I think that while the speech was too long\u2014sorry, the answer was\u00A0too long\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243d2b8acebb24a26a6fbb457ba3344ef\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: I rest my case!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216557cde103b4bf59fff5af938a317aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, I\u2019ve never been one for long speeches, but it was too long an answer. But I don\u2019t think that you could say that was an attack on the previous Government. Talking about what has historically happened is not unreasonable and not outside the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b74bdd37f10f4c48a62322ef1ba4fdee\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: The last bit of her answer absolutely was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229302957ef3be4ebf9194767d3854ddd1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, maybe I didn\u2019t hear it because of some of the noise that was going on, but I will have a look at that on Hansard. I\u2019m trying my best to be fair and even.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f2b3879d7624cd3b03f80f176c2bfe1\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Why is the Government concerned about fiscal\u00A0drag?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232f8516db3dd4583a7c1c352ee0d524a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I note there\u2019s a lot of sensitivity about the answers to these questions. The fiscal drag\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c9712bcb4154db0a78db4bf4a7a48e5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, with all due respect, that doesn\u2019t help things either, so just start the answer again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228261886a26db417cae36766de6d2a98e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Sure. Well, the fiscal drag I have described affects people at all levels of income. As the years go by, they find themselves paying an increasing share of their earnings in income tax, and this can affect people\u2019s perceptions of fairness in the tax system and as a result have a negative impact on compliance. Also, as people move into higher tax brackets, they face higher marginal tax rates, which can be a disincentive to work. This Government wants people to see a future for themselves and their families in New Zealand where they can get ahead if they work hard and keep more of their own money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ebeb1bbbb434d318496a05f86f13d6f\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Will personal income tax relief in Budget 2024 be inflationary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b098821873a94791a2de511840a1f647\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: No. Tax relief will be funded by reducing Government consumption and increasing revenue elsewhere, all sitting within the Budget 2024 operating allowance. Furthermore, that allowance will be lower than the allowance set by the previous Government. This means that tax relief is affordable, we will not be borrowing extra to pay for it, and tax relief will not add to inflationary pressures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022713ae8c84e3147f98a75c2abaf5a44aa\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1e95b59940d4159958edb28eb223da4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1e95b59940d4159958edb28eb223da4\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022e32bd5e126e443b4b872a92f580816e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e32bd5e126e443b4b872a92f580816e8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and especially our announcement of nine priority targets, including reducing New Zealand\u2019s net greenhouse gas emissions to align with our 2050 net zero climate goal. Of course, we\u2019re going to achieve that by fast-track consenting so we can get more renewable energy, like windfarms, built, we\u2019re going to remove the GE ban to empower our world-class agriscientists to actually manage methane emissions down, and, of course, we\u2019re going to restore integrity to the emissions trading scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b890607e594046c5b6f0c4b5d33c0562\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister stand by his answer to me at question time\u00A0yesterday that the Climate Change Commission\u2019s draft advice on biogenic methane is \u201Cspeculation\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d3e8d15adbe4d70a85cbce58555eec8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think I expressed it in those terms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae112b9460a541709e6d57d3b624c1a1\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I can quote directly from the\u00A0Hansard\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb01825c991c4fc1b4d4a162a3d2608c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, wait until I call you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224345b651b746411f8a4f85f8e20c78b4\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229346ba815beb4cd88afdf8004ef5862b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7d0f1ea20be42cc8befb08e678b1885\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: I would quote directly from the Hansard, in which the Prime Minister responded to a direct quote from the Climate Change Commission\u2019s report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022256de42902a8472ea89d108f62f163eb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bad4c27d250f4c7e88a1f2e9a78f510e\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: All right, Mr Speaker. May I have another supplementary, then, to probe this point?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce42d7d9d45b4f9e9670e61c0520b62a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly not an extra one. Carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efa0ceef2f784ef987317443d4247ae6\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What does he understand the role of the Climate Change Commission to be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0f892f71dd44f81a8bf78b262c21d29\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it provides important advice to the Government about the state of climate change in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8d85e212a7745adb0bcc5234d06eb1a\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he then agree with the Climate Change Commission, who said on Monday, and I quote, \u201Cthere has not be an important or notable change in the understanding of the physical science on methane and how it warms the atmosphere\u201D; or is he to extend his logic also to reopen the science on, say, gravity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209a9bbd0b36240a1bff973d723f3856d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know how to answer the last part of that question, but what I would just say is that we are determined to make sure that we update the science base on methane. It has changed over the last five years. It\u2019s changed over the last 10 years. It will change in the next five years and in the next 10 years. It\u2019s important that we get a common base of understanding of science knowledge so we can set the right targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234cd2b678d0142279b47e70d3e718a31\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Science denier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266f15d6605cf4b3880cbc95fecd12b11\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait\u2014OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aacf85d6320945ba90422ddc720574fc\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What exactly is wrong with the Climate Change Commission\u2019s science such that the Government feels compelled to open a secondary review on the science of methane?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b9452b77a774b6486a98b79c9bfab05\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014I missed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dff31ba106e41cbb6db6193f2a7eb79\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Could the member ask the question again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231b718f1e78d43a8b1453956fe4a20e1\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Prime Minister consider is wrong with the Climate Change Commission\u2019s science on methane?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5038b0b47a34d65b77f066d3ce5f6df\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing particularly. We have two reviews going on, answering slightly different questions to make sure that we get a common understanding of the science base.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b99094d32cbe417490d4ddf9e323a50f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u002222961c7606b34ef68bc9a8da63eab12b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222961c7606b34ef68bc9a8da63eab12b\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What process, if any, has she established for portfolio Ministers and Cabinet to review and approve the cost-saving proposals currently being consulted on by agencies through the Initial Baseline Exercise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002211d48abc99f94f12ae2fdb0584351026\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211d48abc99f94f12ae2fdb0584351026\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Ministers were asked in late December to work with their agencies to develop credible savings options for Budget 2024. Chief executives were expected to exercise good judgment in putting forward savings proposals, and Ministers have worked with agencies to refine them. The savings exercise is an ongoing and iterative process, including through Budget bilaterals between myself and various Ministers. Cabinet will be asked to approve the full Budget package.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248408d9cfb23485f8caf1ee32f7fda77\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is it her expectation that Ministers will understand the full implications of their agencies\u2019 final cost savings plans prior to Cabinet considering the Budget package, as set out in question time yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3262467c3114f68acd83c77c4c76f1c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1e1587de20c4c63b50925b3ecb2c838\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is she concerned, then, that agency cuts won\u2019t be finalised prior to Cabinet considering Budget 2024, and how does she expect her colleagues to consider and reject those proposals if the Budget has already been finalised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a032778ba8bb41958fd539c22c11e260\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s two things happening here. The first is that agencies, as a matter of course, routinely, and have for many years made decisions to restructure their entities in order to focus on their core priorities and to drive efficiency. Some of the changes that are under way and change processes that are happening across the public service now are actually the result of reforms by the previous Government. For example, in the case of Health New Zealand, it was always an expectation that there would then be reductions in the number of roles at the Ministry of Health. The second thing that is happening here is that in some cases, agencies have made decisions at an operational level to begin change processes and to consult on those change processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022920961c9db7a4b8ca45f0998525a599e\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister of Health meet her expectations to understand the impact of the Ministry of Health\u2019s cuts prior to Cabinet agreeing the Budget when final decisions are not expected to come until June?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216ac50e883fa452c83024a4ac1082f83\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think I just answered that in my previous answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e7efb0e9b6446de873c4b3b36cf039f\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How can she say that her colleagues are able to reject proposals to freeze hiring at Oranga Tamariki and Police, or cut jobs from the tobacco regulation team at Health or the Suicide Prevention Office, when these are being finalised after Cabinet agrees her Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ffa68f71cd04f1aa861904393463c5f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Because many entities have put forward proposals that Ministers have rejected. That is happening, that has happened, and I suspect it will continue to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f80abc28f4d249a086525956cc7a53c1\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not the case that she will pursue significant cost cutting to pay for her tax cuts package without knowing the full impact on the public, while leaving her colleagues to front the consequences of her decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022433afb71b2984c2e95def954ae263cc5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I want to tell you about the impact it had on the public when that Government chose to increase spending\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022429e247443dc44b0830407dfafda1424\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1d5d5076aea4e8884628b37f9766c0b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014at a rapid rate and the decisions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e46704edc44436797cdf95797bf42d7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014resume your seat. No\u2014take your seat. After all the discussion that we\u2019ve had in recent days, don\u2019t start an answer like that. Attacks on the Opposition for their political activities are not reasonable. Referencing decisions they\u2019ve made and the consequences of those decisions as they affect portfolios now is in order, but the way that was presented was not quite to form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bb4a9ec9be24c57a0dd3e303ae109ce\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0bf35d8d62c4dea9cc663aa813d2e48\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: To the rescue!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a944e5d69d58494bafe854a790f2afae\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: The only one that needs rescuing is your deputy leadership. But anyway\u2014Mr Speaker\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b68c7eb43fc4e09bcf1945cd88cff0d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just hang on; just a minute. We\u2019ve got a point of order being taken. They are heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d652defc70a4ad3844d18fd5117ce3b\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s been a protocol, Mr Speaker, that political questions get political answers. That was quite a political question\u2014very serious, quite charged, a politically charged allegation inherent in the question\u2014and the Minister of Finance is responding in a political way. That\u2019s always been the rule, sir, that political questions get political answers; straight questions deserve straight answers. Is the rule now that political questions can\u2019t be political in their answers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228b06e8df5ab4a879f798953cabcf8be\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, of course not. But your version, your assessment of what is a politically charged question and mine, are clearly different. Your view on what is a reasonable answer and mine are different, but mine will prevail. Does the Minister wish to\u2014point of order, the Hon Kieran McAnulty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee9636f6c887413a93361871e3b895f0\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. We absolutely accept that point of orders will be heard in silence, but we also believe that the rule that points of orders should solely be points of orders should also be followed, and when they\u2019re not, it\u2019s likely to lead to disorder in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285a0333b51a947379ffef5225b193cf4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is true, but given the nature of the ruling, I decided to let that slide. But it won\u2019t be happening again. So, Minister, would you like to answer the question\u2014or would you like to hear it again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f92b0c2554174230b1cda54432a12faa\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no, I\u2019m fine. Look, I can offer the member opposite real reassurance that every single member of this Government supports our decision to offer tax relief to working people by reprioritising some of the wasteful spending that was put in place by those members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6f13d9562b34c45928468f30382337e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Agriculture (Animal Welfare, Skills)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002241a27fbdfe374069800e30de3921ff03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241a27fbdfe374069800e30de3921ff03\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 5, Mark Cameron. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7fd547005af42bcb32a123d1fc88b2c\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022609b987179c54ff0a2c7671b1cd38ac8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait a minute. Just giving the House a moment to settle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022e360cf477e684e02b5247f2e2b6e497d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e360cf477e684e02b5247f2e2b6e497d\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Agriculture (Animal Welfare, Skills): What recent announcements, if any, has he made in his portfolio?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022 data-id=\u00225d2ead17ffe44e1b88e8cc1491a62b72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d2ead17ffe44e1b88e8cc1491a62b72\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Associate Minister of Agriculture (Animal Welfare, Skills)):\u003C/span\u003E Today, the Minister of Agriculture and I announced our intention to improve freshwater farm plans to make them more cost-effective and pragmatic for farmers. I see freshwater farm plans as a key tool to support farmers to enhance the freshwater environment in the future, but the current system is too costly, too complex, and too inflexible. This announcement signals the Government\u2019s intention to make farm plans fit for purpose and align to the particular circumstances of each farm and catchment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a556ecf6aa334d32b4ae3c2e262ab06c\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Point of order. Point of order, Mr Speaker. Just seeking your guidance\u2014given that this is a patsy question, it was filed to the Associate Minister of Agriculture (Animal Welfare, Skills), the press release which is being alluded to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf7953ab20d04d24bfb22a2751608207\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, that\u2019s not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241d4d01dad614ff39d818b6ebb1041d5\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the press release that is being alluded to is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e428b05c6ea043f1b518d250a569e1b6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is entirely the Government\u2019s decision which Minister will answer a\u00A0question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8f57c697ecf4c46b693cfe2f8e0f0bd\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What changes to freshwater farm plans is he considering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b70b590e64e841fc9c6d84e672553806\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: The sector has told us that the current system is rigid, with time and money needed to complete a farm plan not lining up with the level of risk for many farmers. Among other things, we will take a look at the certification and auditing requirements of the system, with a view to ensuring that future settings are justifiable on the basis of cost and environmental benefit. We will also make sure that we are doing as much as we can to reduce duplication in farm planning. Many farmers are already doing comprehensive farm plans that, in many cases, could easily be recognised as equivalent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022453a33fc8adb49a4bf55adfb74a852bd\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What value will an improved farm plan system provide farmers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b22a35a555034f6b92f6601d309b462c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to supporting and to protect and enhance the environment, we intend to develop a flexible but robust system where farm plans can be specifically targeted to the unique needs of each farm and catchment. Ideally, these plans can stand in the place of local rules and consents for a range of common farming activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d74499ff1b9f44c39e0f8a88cae856a6\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What does he intend to do for farmers in areas where a freshwater farm plan system is already being implemented?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9cb81bc1604488abecd4b834119e8f5\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: The system roll-out began under the previous Government in parts of some regions, including the Waikato and Southland, where farmers have to put these plans or have them developed by early next year. We want to\u00A0give as much certainty as possible to farmers as we work through these changes, especially those that may already be putting their plans together. As part of that, we may look into whether the current requirements to complete freshwater farm plans could\u00A0be paused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a3a53c64241442993098af29d721f58\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022 data-id=\u002280f69a83fa154e9994f0c25ce5a2fa5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280f69a83fa154e9994f0c25ce5a2fa5e\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: Does he stand by all the Government\u2019s policies and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022d74fab14d30c4241ae9a1cacac07b3cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d74fab14d30c4241ae9a1cacac07b3cc\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E \u0100na, \u0101na. Kei te tino tautoko i te anga whakamua o t\u014D t\u0101tou K\u0101wanatanga, me ng\u0101 mihi matakoakoa ki t\u014D t\u0101tou Pir\u012Bmia i \u0101na k\u014Drero tongarerewa i te Mane e hang\u0101 mai nei he wh\u0101inga m\u014D t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[Yes, yes. I very much support the forward direction of our Government, and happily acknowledge our Prime Minister for his precious statements on Monday that goals will be created for all of us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e2d2933b7be41f49d267cfe3736a3eb\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: What is his level of involvement regarding the Government\u2019s policy to remove section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act, which iwi leaders have stated really clearly will sever iwi partnerships, will further alienate tamariki M\u0101ori from their \u2018hakapapa, and lead to more harm of tamariki M\u0101ori in the Crown\u2019s care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229489225aa63a433dafd7b09b387b775b\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: He mema au n\u014D te K\u0101penata, \u0101, ka w\u0101nanga \u0113r\u0101 momo kaupapa ki te K\u0101penata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[I am a member of the Cabinet, and those types of topics were considered by the Cabinet.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232e4a4a9de48437182fb86fcaaa99208\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Was he consulted on the disestablishment of the M\u0101ori Health Authority, and, if so, what is his view on the impacts this will have on M\u0101ori health inequities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab81accce0a4a6a9177baac6407e1c8\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Ka nui hoki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero i kawea atu e m\u0101tou o te P\u0101ti N\u0101hinara me ng\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B haumi ki te K\u0101wanatanga haumi ki t\u0113nei take m\u014D Te Aka Whai Ora i te w\u0101 o te p\u014Dti, me te mea nei kua tukuna mai e taku manu hauora nei ng\u0101 pepa ki te K\u0101penata. Kei roto au i te K\u0101penata, kua kite au i \u0113r\u0101 pepa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[There were a lot of statements that were taken by us of the National Party and the coalition parties to the coalition Government about this issue for the M\u0101ori Health Authority during the election campaign, and my health leader here has passed those papers on to Cabinet. I am in the Cabinet; I have seen those papers.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ae0b70bf77a4f188cae96566a5376a1\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Was he consulted on the decision to repeal Aotearoa\u2019s smoke-free legislation, given that the Smokefree Aotearoa campaign was initiated and led by M\u0101ori, and smoking is the leading cause of preventable death of our people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223f22d27af6a4a73aefd503aaf914625\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: \u0112nei pepa i kawea mai nei e te Minita, e Casey Costello, t\u0113r\u0101 uri o te N\u014Dta, \u0101, i kawea atu ki te K\u0101penata me te mea nei i kite hoki au i \u0113r\u0101 pepa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[These papers that were brought by the Minister, by Casey Costello, that descendant of the North, were conveyed to Cabinet and I also saw those papers.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220e5e6d34a8c4a02931d000616be1f4a\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: What advice did he seek regarding the disproportionate impact that scrapping funding for section 27 reports in sentencing will have on M\u0101ori, which experts have stated will lead to further discrimination of M\u0101ori in the criminal justice system, higher rates of offending, and higher rates of M\u0101ori in prison?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d49de2c3da249139d55c1a4de04c891\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I kite hoki au i ng\u0101 pepa i tukuna atu ki te K\u0101penata, me te m\u014D\u2019io hoki ahakoa kua takahi i t\u0113r\u0101 ara ki te whakakore i ng\u0101 p\u016Btea tautoko m\u014D \u0113r\u0101 ripoata, e taea tonutia ana e te marea e tae ana ki ng\u0101 k\u014Dti ki te kawe mai i \u014D r\u0101tou nawe e p\u0101 ana ki te \u0101huatanga, te tuakiritanga o te tangata, t\u014Dna h\u012Btori, her-tori r\u0101nei. Koir\u0101 hoki te ara i ng\u0101 rua tekau tau, tekau m\u0101 rima tau i muri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[I also saw the papers that were given to Cabinet, and I also know that although that path to disestablishing the support funding for those reports has been walked, the public that appear in court continue to be able to bring their issues with respect to the character, the identity of the individual, his history, or her-story. That has been the way for the last 20 years or 15 years.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eeeb4b4181f40db9bc1559fcaf31d31\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: What level of involvement did he have in the decision to reintroduce referendums on M\u0101ori wards which breaches M\u0101ori rights to representation in local government? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a14d6b883f64a6986a8b083174f4302\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s absolutely marvellous to see so many M\u0101ori councillors on councils throughout the country, and the coalition agreements have stated that the M\u0101ori wards issues will be put to all constituencies that have not already agreed to the M\u0101ori wards. That\u2019s what the coalition agreement stated and that\u2019s what we are following today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e22c67b9c054cfcad3b84ded2daaea2\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. If I can just clarify, my question was specifically on what level of involvement did he have in the decision to reintroduce referendums on M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e93d7f52f1a4699870370e5d063c274\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that question. I am a member of Cabinet and\u00A0we have received papers in relation to that matter, and Cabinet has taken decisions\u00A0accordingly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fa13e5f73b94e989944aff6e9eca6cf\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: What is his view on the implications that policies such as the Fast-track Approvals Bill, the Treaty principles bill, the removal of section 7AA\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022717a4893d7cc4cfd978d3da9e688dbdb\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Matua\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022941d1c6fc5a249aeab2b76e5fbb281f5\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014from Oranga Tamariki\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f33fdcf618e4ec59487ccef3ccd922a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, just hang on\u2014hang on. Wait please. The deal is\u2014I don\u2019t want to name anybody here, but we don\u2019t speak while the question is being asked, so please start that again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b658b388ce9645a5a534fb2be1129058\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: What is his view on the implications that policies such as the Fast-track Approvals Bill, the Treaty principles bill, the removal of section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act, the ministerial alienation of te reo M\u0101ori, and the disestablishment of the M\u0101ori Health Authority will have on M\u0101ori fundamental rights and interests, and on the wellbeing of your and my mokopuna?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258e5e640b2da4edeb0bba2e92b1c2851\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I am a member of the Cabinet, and as a result I take very close to heart the notion of collective Cabinet responsibility, and there have been a number of issues that have emerged out of various bills and pieces of legislation and policies that you\u2019ve referred to. I am absolutely strengthened and motivated to ensure that the rights and interests of M\u0101ori\u2014such as Treaty settlements\u2014are preserved through those processes, as you can see in the draft legislation for the Fast-track Approvals Bill, which I hope ultimately will be passed, and iwi and other M\u0101ori groups can take advantage of that legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0b75404a10a4fb481ebb0ddfed014fa\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022 data-id=\u0022c037a08512aa481383ca514115765716\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c037a08512aa481383ca514115765716\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has the Government made about shorter wait times for elective treatment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u002253abf7c1ad5a424b8981c11e48572cd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253abf7c1ad5a424b8981c11e48572cd6\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Earlier this week, the Prime Minister launched ambitious health targets as part of the Government\u2019s target suite. This will help improve the lives of all New Zealanders. One of these targets was shorter wait times for elective treatment. This target aims to see 95 percent of people wait less than four months for their elective treatments. This won\u2019t be easy, but the Government is committed to improving the lives of all New Zealanders through better, more efficient public services. We look to deliver the public services that New\u00A0Zealanders deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8d1b3f8bdca4fb4a0b0a0d8dfc3471d\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: Why is an elective target important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b959c3a1f3e4b2fa8d3891f6ca29d50\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: This target was chosen because the treatment times that we used to expect and achieve just six years ago have reduced. Wait times for elective treatments have turned into a highly stressful experience, with patients having no certainty as to when they will receive access to the care that they need. As of September 2023, only 62 percent of patients waited less than four months for their elective treatments, down significantly from around 97 percent in late 2017. This is not good enough, and we want to deliver better care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae64dd8beed2451cb0339edcca5a5434\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is this target too ambitious given the current state of the health\u00A0system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232431815f17d45758c2c432da66365d4\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: This target is not meant to be easy to achieve. We\u2019re not here to do what is easy; we\u2019re here to do what is needed. Despite the very hard work of our front-line health workforce over the past six years, our wait times have continued to grow. That\u2019s why we are taking a different approach by putting targets back at the forefront of our decision making. These targets will direct attention and resources and set a clear agenda for where our health system should be heading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251ce68e7fbfc445aac6fc42f64c848f8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Does his ambition include a reduction in the ESPI 5, or planned care treatment wait list, in the coming financial year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272cfa7b98034477695604849467eec62\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: Our ambitions are to improve all of the wait times that we announced in our targets and, as we have said, the baseline will be set as of 1 July 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8a8060b4485401b8a6da90be4b679e5\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government track progress against this target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022203dc8bdebfc4d93b20138e0c830c0f7\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: We last achieved 95 percent between early 2015 and the end of 2017, so we know it\u2019s possible. The health agencies will report results each quarter, with the first quarterly result expected to be for the July to September 2024 period. This reporting will be robust to ensure we can target resources appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bec9715191834cb78c9710228c577b47\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Mental Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa9cc6a160504eb0953e2b7810429d03\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa9cc6a160504eb0953e2b7810429d03\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just want to point out I am pre-empting this question a bit, that it will be around the Suicide Prevention Office. I\u2019m happy to proceed with the question; I just want to point out my delegation for suicide prevention is not Associate Minister of Health; it\u2019s for mental health. It\u2019s in the sheet, yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022db41b059804f49fc91a3801b3ff21fcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db41b059804f49fc91a3801b3ff21fcd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not necessarily a point of order, but you managed to make a point, I\u00A0suppose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002211b918c3120b448d864966306882021a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211b918c3120b448d864966306882021a\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, point of order, Mr Speaker. Noting that, it is, I believe, actually fair to say because the question was put to the Minister for Mental Health. The Minister for Mental Health is confused as to why it\u2019s down as the Associate Minister of Health, and given we didn\u2019t put it there, I think it doesn\u2019t have to be right away but it would be good to know how it\u2019s ended up here like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022c590b2bb107f4452ae5ac0c6f2d16bfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c590b2bb107f4452ae5ac0c6f2d16bfc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s fair enough. There is a process that you\u2019re well aware of as to how those questions do get put down. It is the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022524966ba66404550bb72dc6159d2c841\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why I didn\u2019t do a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022043c10eb36d84ca0ac9a1c30b657ba4a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s right, and so I\u2019ll take a good look at it. Thanks very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7bacf62ca1e41c99c091981240f76fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7bacf62ca1e41c99c091981240f76fc\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. It does raise a reasonably substantive issue. The Government is ultimately responsible for determining which Minister is responsible for answering a question, but where the question is a broad one, like whether the Minister stands by all of their statements and actions, there can be very limited grounds for transferring that from one Minister to another, because, ultimately, the Government, if they have transferred it, have determined that the Associate Minister of Health is better to answer questions on whether the Minister for Mental Health stands by their statements and actions, or not. That seems a slightly odd decision, given that the Minister for Mental Health is the same person and is in the House. So if the question\u2019s been transferred, it must have been the Government that transferred it and they must have a rationale for doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022353353\u0022 data-id=\u00223600d9223f434eca8ec88bac83b90a58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022353353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223600d9223f434eca8ec88bac83b90a58\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order. This is mysterious. I\u2019ve just checked, Mr Speaker. The question was lodged to the Minister for Mental Health; the Government did not transfer it to the Associate Minister of Health. Somewhere along the line\u2014and I think the Clerk is checking right now\u2014the question has made its way from being lodged to the Minister for Mental Health, which I think the Minister for Mental Health is happy to answer in that capacity, and it\u2019s gone on in the Order Paper as the Associate Minister of Health, but the Government didn\u2019t transfer it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca314a3c01ab4bd194aac1b49e7abc1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca314a3c01ab4bd194aac1b49e7abc1f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we could have a massive inquest here, or someone could seek leave for the question to be directed to the Minister for Mental Health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022e617ef20d711408dbf51cc05d979b7eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e617ef20d711408dbf51cc05d979b7eb\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I seek leave of the House for the question to be directed to the Minister for Mental Health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022627d77acbbb7444cb0e8722b7719669e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022acddb5839ee74ebd8e257f19ccd82459\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acddb5839ee74ebd8e257f19ccd82459\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Mental Health: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022393f46c54f0147fb9ff22b49c6e9f051\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022393f46c54f0147fb9ff22b49c6e9f051\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E First, can I just take a moment to acknowledge how triggering the conversations have been around suicide for many people in New Zealand who have been affected by suicide in their families and their communities. Yes, I do stand beside my statements and actions, specifically that mental health and suicide prevention is a priority for this Government. My priorities for mental health, addictions, and suicide are to increase access to timely mental health, addiction, and suicide prevention support; number two, to grow the mental health and addiction and suicide prevention workforce; and, three, strengthen focus on prevention and early intervention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bf17b48f09e40c4b4977bf68f9be986\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement this week insisting that the Suicide Prevention Office would not be a victim of the Government\u2019s cost cutting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e747e61b5bc94a4488c4315b9f8b2062\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Look, can I take the opportunity to clear something up. I saw the change document for the first time, with the officials taking me through it, on Monday. They have taken me through it and showed, with the change proposal, the proposal is actually to go from 5.5 fulltime-equivalents (FTE) in the Suicide Prevention Office, which it currently is, to 6.5 in the change proposal, which is only a proposal but it will increase capacity and capability in that office that will remain open. It has been misleading: the Public Service Association put out a press release that it was to close; I was never informed of that, and it was not to close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226379a8dd2648492493946ab4714dcfbf\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Why did his health officials double down on their advice to the media yesterday, saying that the number of roles to be disestablished and the number of roles to be integrated were, essentially, exactly the same as what they advised last week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b0c5f8c7f8d48f3a0759f5e2d2f288d\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in response to that question, I can only go by the assurance I got when I was given the change proposal for the first time on Monday. They took me through it and showed me where it has gone from 5.5 FTE to 6.5 FTE. I want to be very clear\u2014and the officials have acknowledged I wasn\u2019t sufficiently briefed\u2014I was not told it was to close. I\u2019ve always been very clear. There\u2019s been a lot of discussion in the sector that is critical of the Suicide Prevention Office. One major commentator has called for it to close. I do not want it to close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fc217388bdf47c29bfc91f6f98d0039\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: What is the practical difference between retaining only the functions of the office and closure, given that the Prime Minister has just confirmed in the House today that there are current roles that will no longer be filled?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efaa351354b24b2986f6362b4386f519\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve been very clear\u2014and I was even interviewed by Jack Tame on Q\u002BA\u2014that I\u2019ve been disappointed by the Suicide Prevention Office; I think it\u2019s lacked real leadership. The sector has been disappointed. But I\u2019ve never been of the view to delete it; I\u2019ve always been of the view to, actually, how we can give it clear expectations, manage it, targets, and goals. As part of the review of the Suicide Action Plan that I\u2019m due to take in the next couple of months, I will be doing that with the Suicide Prevention Office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cce33ca4079d40dd80804093d673924e\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he ask his officials to publicly apologise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6f5c725f808471aa419af0a5eeb1f36\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: I did not ask the officials to publicly apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e9a9c071e174c59b4ec2d7b52b3f3fb\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Why are officials publicly apologising when they\u2019re actually just following Government directions to find 6.5 percent funding cuts across health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e03c5ace82074282bb623c1e2d10f0c2\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s very simple, because the fiscal sustainability programme clearly states to find savings while still delivering quality public services, and delivering a Suicide Prevention Office is a quality public service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f910a8ff7e774c558b5074761b70f4c1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4527c0d88bf4f77860e55524b01a3ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4527c0d88bf4f77860e55524b01a3ee\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s recent statement that the average adult now is on the benefit for 13 years on average, and the under-25s are on the benefit for an average of 24 years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb03aca392dd49e3b4784946290e94ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb03aca392dd49e3b4784946290e94ea\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in its full context. The Prime Minister was referring to independent evidence produced by Taylor Fry in 2022, which reported that someone on the jobseeker benefit is expected to spend 13 years on benefit throughout their lifetime. The same evidence shows someone on a youth benefit is expected to spend 24 years on benefits throughout their lifetime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022328d3735c18a495998b9a52a0643eaf1\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that the Taylor Fry report she just quoted actually says that only 0.5 percent of people on the benefit are expected to spend 24 years on a benefit throughout their lifetime? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f0f0a89caa3476a84840b8801df5f37\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Anyone that spends up to 24 years of their future lifetime on welfare is a major issue for this Government, and that\u2019s why we are focused on fixing it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f93ca58cd5bc4b11a4886193aef7d6e1\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, has the Prime Minister and the Minister continued to say that under-25s are on the benefit for an average of 24 years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bce54536393476182b81d2687f96ed7\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Because that\u2019s what the Taylor Fry report has said. For someone who goes on to youth payment or youth parent payment, unfortunately, the future lifetime expected that they will spend on welfare is up to 24 years. That is a disaster from anyone\u2019s book and why we are focused, with a social investment approach, on where the group have the highest risk of poorer life outcomes and interrupting it. We are not interested in allowing young people in this country, whether it\u2019s a small number or a large number, spending that amount of time stuck. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c4c25bed34649c9ad24e71e54f7e724\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is she aware that for that tiny 0.5 percent proportion of people, the modelling has taken into account seven additional risk factors, including acute unplanned care from a public hospital, interaction with Oranga Tamariki, and exclusion from school, and, if so, why didn\u2019t she create a target to reduce those risk factors, as opposed to just getting 50,000 people off the benefit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc04244ada794c2ea1f8799eae877193\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Taylor Fry modelling is based on really careful analysis of the IDI data, which is why it is so rich. It looks at people\u2019s past outcomes with the intention of trying to disrupt that from happening in the future. Whether it\u2019s one person, whether it\u2019s 100, or whether it\u2019s 100,000, every one of those people counts, to me, and I\u00A0am unwilling to sit by and let them get stuck. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b732e5286ce041c6be3a01d2c6e3c7c2\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is she confident in the accuracy of her and the Prime Minister\u2019s comments that the average young person is spending 24 years on a benefit? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abd471ad0a184b3d8497c470fc22fbf6\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my primary answer, the context in which that was given was a discussion about long-term welfare dependency\u2014the horrendous change that we have seen under the last six years with a significant increase in young people going on to welfare and staying on it\u2014and the Taylor Fry report was one piece of the evidence that shows why we must prioritise this group. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eaded6f94e34b9b9d1deb2fa8040c40\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Will she commit, going forward, to be clear that only\u00A00.5\u00A0percent of people are predicted to spend 24 years on the benefit, as per the Taylor Fry report? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d475ad48331461790d0f1c69b1f54ac\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: What I will commit to this House is that for every single person, we will do our best to get them off welfare and into work, because that\u2019s what improves their life outcomes. Whether it\u2019s one year or 24 years, it\u2019s not good enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fb9bf2232d84548b0c3a49ef698405f\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table the Taylor Fry report released under the Official Information Act\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226737ddd8b4fd4294968149a008ac6c6b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, when the House is silent, we can all hear what you\u2019re saying. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227874530260e24f9283b619ba20070f71\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table the Taylor Fry report Social Outcomes Modelling\u20142022 Results, released to me under the Official Information Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220de67886b75441a9fd5de976fc11b60\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c77ab1a3718d4463b5a5dbbf19dc8561\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1cf01c416b941f496514ad15feed7b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1cf01c416b941f496514ad15feed7b6\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What target has the Government set for a reduction in violent crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00220149271400d945d5a1106ae24233b9e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220149271400d945d5a1106ae24233b9e0\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Prime Minister announced on Monday that the Government has set a target to see a reduction in the number of people who are the victims of an assault, robbery, or sexual assault by 20,000. By setting a focused and ambitious target to reduce the number of victims of crime, we can focus attention, resources, and accountability towards achieving better results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e978a28a4ab14b7089048fe5cec5612e\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Why does this Government want to see a reduction in violent\u00A0crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6f65cd9caa0490fb2bf8020c769ed0d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s important that all New Zealanders feel safe in their homes and in their communities. It\u2019s estimated that around 185,000 Kiwis or 4.4 percent of the population are victims of an assault, robbery, or sexual assault, and we don\u2019t regard that as normal or acceptable. The previous Government targeted reducing the prison population while violent crime increased. We have changed the target to reduce the number of victims of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fca3e40120e4c2a87d66d1226f36e08\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: What steps have already been taken to help reach the target to see a reduction in violent crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ad811862f36450a88b6bee20dfbed77\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Government\u2019s already taken a number of steps, including the introduction of a significant legislative package aimed at tackling gangs; we\u2019re boosting the powers of police to search gang members and other high-risk offenders, in addition to providing more access to rehabilitation for people on demand; and we\u2019ve stopped funding for cultural reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e48fb988d98d46da860d345bd36b1931\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: What steps are next to help reach the target to see a reduction in victims of violent crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212924aadde84499b85656ec193c0e632\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re restoring the three-strikes legislation that the previous Government repealed, showing that we will not tolerate repeat violent offending in our communities. We\u2019ll give judges additional tools to deal with serious repeat youth offenders, including military-style academies. We\u2019ll also limit excessive sentencing discounts so penalties actually fit the crime. There are, of course, many factors that have contributed to an increase in violent crime in our communities, but one of the immediate tools available to us is to restore real consequences for crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220203da4c3fd14b61af6c34d6f5d75b95\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: How will his gang patch legislation assist in achieving those targets when advice provided to him by the Ministry of Justice on 27 November states clearly that there\u2019s no strong evidence to show that such actions work to reduce long-term offending and, in fact, risks making it more difficult to change offending behaviours and may drive an increase in gang numbers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f5960ffc5544a48bde104b00ff27d2\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I think it was the mixed attitude towards gangs over the past six years that led\u2014a contributor, no doubt\u2014to a 50 percent increase in gang membership in our community. And so I think everybody acknowledges the negative impact that gang membership and intimidation in our communities have on our towns and our communities. And so that bill is designed to give the police extra powers to deal with gang intimidation, and that will help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227896365459734f399c625edcf8e6a16c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Disability Issues\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022f222945704324927a38c1db233e18623\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f222945704324927a38c1db233e18623\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Disability Issues: When did she receive the briefing titled \u201CChanges to Equipment and Modification Services and flexible funding to manage Whaikaha expenditure\u201D and what actions did she take upon receiving the briefing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00229ae47eb6a4f5448ea871efcdaad49e59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ae47eb6a4f5448ea871efcdaad49e59\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for Disability Issues):\u003C/span\u003E I received the briefing on 23\u00A0February 2024. I noted that Whaikaha was making changes which were needed to reduce its forecast deficit as recommended, and, as I have said multiple times, these issues are inherited from the previous Labour Government, and I am taking urgent steps to address the situation with a review. We have also put extra funding in to support Whaikaha through to the end of this financial year, and we have signalled that Whaikaha will get more money in the next Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f6bf312044c4c88a3ae0c87d975da4c\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: How does she rationalise that with answers she gave in the House that suggest the first time she knew about the changes to reduce flexibility of disability support services was when she signed out a briefing on 14 March?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a0073bf3c824f238fa30d715a5cc092\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly received the briefing on 22 February that these were initiatives that Whaikaha was considering, and then they confirmed on 14 March that they would be implementing those changes. They also informed me in that briefing that before implementing these changes, Whaikaha had a comprehensive communications and engagement plan outlining the changes being implemented. They also said they had tailored messages for each audience focused on ensuring people needing disability support the most continued to receive support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a77abb09b9384b209d7e406e5b0bb5f6\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she only formally advise the finance Minister of eligibility changes that resulted from Whaikaha\u2019s funding shortfall on 20 March, two days after the announcement was made and implemented, as she has confirmed in written parliamentary questions No. 3593 and 3599?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff5bc5d763d44827accbf8f13a520510\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Because we were discussing Budget issues at that meeting on the 22nd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b69431fed514b0995dc6159641dffd3\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Why, given she was first aware of the proposed changes on 22\u00A0or 23 February, did it take her till 25 March to first go to Cabinet, considering over 26,000 carers have been impacted by these changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd289851e73f4808beee8eb0f5077933\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Because in that paper on 22 February, Whaikaha had outlined two initiatives that they were taking to reduce its projected deficit. They also outlined that they were working with Treasury to see if their bid for cost pressures could be considered early. Also, in late February and late January, Whaikaha had informed me that their updated forecast showed that they would be within 2 percent of the threshold, which is manageable by me as a Minister, and they were working to reduce it to a zero deficit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c2f13c19e87451997b645dc9f84e6ca\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister therefore saying that this time line is correct: that she first became aware of Whaikaha\u2019s funding issues on 15 December 2023, was briefed on proposed changes on 22 February, signed out changes on 14 March, the changes were then announced and implemented with immediate effect on 18 March, but that she didn\u2019t act till 25 March?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b6708920a1b4f5996eac05c08615d5a\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: No. No, I\u2019m not saying that. I am saying that throughout this process, Whaikaha were updating me on their financial situation. In January, they updated me that they had reduced the deficit and they were working to bring it down to\u00A0zero. In February, they put forward initiatives that would further reduce the deficit. In March, they weren\u2019t able to fulfil that reduction, and therefore it was discussed at a budget meeting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002268ba1a5c78c846328c3ae4ee4c65cac2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u002206ba84b3631a493fa436f0084f463f33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206ba84b3631a493fa436f0084f463f33\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What recent announcements has she made on curriculum and assessment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002269ca6d4345ff44088ae9906d23b95a32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269ca6d4345ff44088ae9906d23b95a32\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I announced significant changes to the NCEA Change Programme that has been under way since 2020. It is a priority for this Government to ensure that we have a world-leading curriculum. This document should be the foundation of a high-performing education system supporting teachers to excel and learners to reach their potential. The current approach puts the cart before the horse, designing assessments before having a curriculum in place, and it is not best practice to design assessment before knowing what is to be assessed. Curriculum is the priority so that we can then deliver well-designed assessment standards that we can have confidence in. And to achieve better public services, I will be delaying the NCEA Change Programme by two years while we complete the curriculum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5c0c7bd59e5488bb7a61831d42b8130\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she received on this announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022303201e99f014ad1acc059d4efb976e8\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The support for this announcement from principals, parents, unions, and teachers alike has been overwhelming. The Post Primary Teachers\u2019 Association president Chris Abercrombie was quoted in the New Zealand Herald this week saying, \u201CIt\u2019s important that we get a really good curriculum base \u2026 good assessment folds out of good curriculum.\u201D, while Dr Nina Hood, founder of The Education Hub, agreed that the curriculum refresh needs to be finalised before redeveloping NCEA to ensure that it was \u201Ca robust and fit for purpose qualification.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247f9ca3f4db949af9ddbf8bd3f4a13b3\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: How will this announcement lift student achievement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f624c065edc4d0d9705b55cfaea5997\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Parents want to know that their children have every opportunity to succeed, and success starts with strong foundations. In addition to teaching the basics brilliantly in our primary and intermediate schools, this Government has a laser focus on delivering a knowledge-rich curriculum to all students, right up to year 13. This decision will lift student achievement by delivering a knowledge-rich world-leading curriculum which acts as a central resource for teachers and a crucial tool to guide assessment and qualification design. The decision will ensure consistency across the country so that every child, no matter where they live or attend school, will have access to the same knowledge at each year level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022961cdb226d4241b7afb5397c588f5532\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: What recent reports has she seen on the curriculum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a7529d4566d4f4eab311f6c7f87d868\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen the recent Education Review Office report into the Aotearoa New Zealand histories curriculum. This report highlights issues within the New Zealand histories curriculum but that are also issues experienced across all curriculum areas\u2014high level, vague, and lacking in specificity is not what the sector wants. The report shows that teachers want a more explicit curriculum with more off the shelf material and resources. Teachers are the most valuable resource that we have, and I\u00A0will be working at pace to deliver what they need to experience success in the classroom, lift student achievement, and get this Government on track to meet our ambitious targets and deliver better public services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228873dea129b44be49ba040a8b6c4eca2\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cc529c49f1c44d5b90e5e4f8acb3dad6\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022883da83e69764bc69e8c25afe1b152ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022883da83e69764bc69e8c25afe1b152ee\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EFundamentally, governing is about choices, and when it comes to the choices that they are making, this Government has its priorities all wrong. One of the first decisions this Government took\u2014not only took but actually found the money to do\u2014was $2.9 billion worth of tax breaks for the country\u2019s landlords. They made the decision to prioritise that nearly $3 billion in tax breaks for landlords whilst considering cutting school lunches, whilst cutting our defences at the border with cuts to the Ministry for Primary Industries and Customs, whilst cutting funding for the Ministry of Health, whilst cutting support for those with disabilities, whilst cutting support for the conservation estate\u2014the list could go on. Every day the list continues to grow, and it is because this Government has made the wrong choices and has the wrong priorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about some of those examples in more detail, and let\u2019s start with the free and healthy school lunches, because the kids were here today, asking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022331f3ca11f1545139a2fc0768e7b068c\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: That you left unfunded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226306cd9651fc4c9380b7648307e51499\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the Government to continue their programme. Nicola Willis says we should have continued to fund it. Well, here is an example of where the Government\u2019s priorities are simply wrong: for the price of the tax cuts that they have given landlords, you could more than double the size of the free and healthy school lunches programme. This Government instead have decided that the landlords need the tax breaks, and here\u2019s the thing: they won\u2019t even guarantee that the benefits of that are going to flow through to the tenants. They think the tenants should be grateful for the fact that the landlords are getting the tax break, and, in many cases, they won\u2019t see a cent of that extra money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at the primary industries and customs and the cuts that the Government are making there. Have they forgotten Mycoplasma bovis\u2014a very good example of why we need a strong and secure border. A biosecurity incursion that had the potential to bring our dairy industry to its knees\u2014that is what we inherited in 2017. We focused on elimination, and all evidence to date suggests that we have succeeded in doing that. That is what we get for the extra investment that we made in our border security, and that is what this Government is threatening to cut.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at health. They actually think we did a good job of managing smoking and managing down smoking. It\u2019s amazing, then, that they\u2019re cutting the funding for the very people who achieved those good outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EIt is easy to attack public servants, because they cannot answer back. When the Government talks about bureaucrats, those are people who cannot answer back. But let me give you a really good example. If anyone had said five years ago that there\u2019s a team of people working at the Ministry of Health planning for an event that may never happen, the members opposite would have said, \u201CWhy are they doing that? That\u2019s wasteful spending.\u201D, until that very thing did happen. It was called a global pandemic, and suddenly the members opposite wanted to know why we weren\u2019t better prepared for it\u2014why we didn\u2019t have more people working on preparing for the global pandemic\u2014because the reality is that some of the work at the Public Service falls exactly into that category: preparing for a pandemic, preparing for a rupture of the Alpine Fault line. These are supposedly faceless bureaucrats that the Government refers to as wasteful spending. They are doing critical work for the benefit of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EBut I did note that the Prime Minister finally has found a bit of a vision. He thinks we should be more like Estonia. I was interested in looking at what that might mean: universal free school lunches for every child attending school in Estonia; a light rail system in their largest city, in Estonia; heavily subsidised kindergarten education in Estonia; and teachers focused on not just the basics but digital skills, on coding, and on other skills that their learners are going to need for the 21st century. So I think we should be more like Estonia, and I look forward to the Government embracing those very things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, though, I\u2019m not going to hold my breath, because we\u2019ve got a Government with no vision, a Government that has the wrong priorities and that is focused on taking New Zealand backwards rather than leading New Zealand forward, and a Government that is focused on managing New Zealand\u2019s decline, rather than actually leading the country forward. At a time when New Zealanders are looking for hope, they\u2019re getting nothing from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002293bb641d909c4e17860fbe5b74cf7398\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293bb641d909c4e17860fbe5b74cf7398\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The current Leader of the Opposition decided to begin his speech talking about choices, and is it any surprise when everyone behind him was sitting there thinking about choices: thinking first about a choice the New Zealand people made so definitively to boot them out, and then thinking about the choice they need to make in the coming months about who, in fact, should lead them into the future. So it\u2019s right that it\u2019s on the Leader of the Opposition\u2019s mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBut, actually, that\u2019s not the speech I came here to give. I came here to give a more serious speech: a requiem for the worker\u2019s party, because, not content with delivering an intergenerational cost of living crisis to the working people of New Zealand, we now have a Labour Party whose reason for being, whose very reason for getting up in the morning, is to rail against tax relief for working people. This so-called worker\u2019s party has its one political reason for being, and it is to rail against the right of working people to hold on to just a little bit more of their own money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENow, New Zealanders have had no change in tax rates or thresholds since 2010. For 14 years, workers in this country\u2014middle-income earners, squeezed; middle-income families\u2014have been taxed more and more as their incomes have risen and as inflation bequeathed to them by that party has pushed them into higher tax brackets. In 2011, a median-wage earner paid 15.5 percent of their average income in tax. Today, that number is 20.6 percent, and I know that these may just sound like numbers, but can I tell you what they mean to people. That increase in effective tax is the difference between families being able to get their kids swimming lessons. It is the feeling in the supermarket aisle that stops mum putting a pack of chocolate biscuits there. That 5 percent is the number that makes people a little less hopeful each week, because the pay packet gets stretched thinner and thinner and the idea of saving some disappears. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe idea that their work and effort will let them get ahead disappears. Here, on this side of the House, we take that very seriously because we believe that those who work hard for a living deserve the rewards of their effort, and what do those members opposite believe, actually, at the end of the day? Well, what they believe is that if they only printed enough money, if they only borrowed enough money, and if they only spent enough money, then every tear from every eye would be wiped, and was it? Well, no, because all the while when they were spending New Zealanders\u2019 hard-earned wages, the wait-lists grew, the education standards declined, violent crime rose, and dairies were ram-raided. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe members opposite have a special talent, actually\u2014let\u2019s give them that\u2014of spending more and delivering less. An 80 percent increase in spending in six short years, an outstandingly bad cost of living crisis, and what do we have to show for it? Oh, three waters, the TVNZ-RNZ merger, KiwiBuild, Auckland light rail\u2014failed initiative after failed initiative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EBut don\u2019t worry, because what we also got was 18,500 more public servants\u2014so that really made the difference!\u2014and sky-high inflation, and who paid for it all? Who paid\u00A0for all of this? Working people paid for it. They paid for it with higher taxes, they paid\u00A0for it at the supermarket checkout aisle, and they paid for it with crumbling public\u00A0services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWell, our Government is cleaning up the mess. We will deliver what working people deserve, what is overdue to them, and what that party would deny them, and that is tax relief. I cannot in my heart understand why the people opposite would deny them that\u2014the opportunity to have a little bit more cash in their bank accounts each week\u2014because the people opposite make the choice that they think it\u2019s more important that they spend New Zealanders\u2019 money. We will match that with targets, with accountability for the performance of our public services, with more police, and with rescuing the school lunch programme that they didn\u2019t leave a dollar for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWe will drive better results. We will spend New Zealanders\u2019 money with the care it deserves because it\u2019s theirs\u2014they earned it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u0022325ebebee3e84d62972e19f68f975d0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022325ebebee3e84d62972e19f68f975d0c\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I stand on behalf of New Zealand First to speak about a topic that we are very firm on, and that is protecting our freedom and our democracy. More specifically, it is the commitment our leader, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, made as he addressed his concerns about ending vaccine mandates, and also holding a full and independent inquiry into the COVID-19 response. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EIn early 2022, thousands of New Zealanders across the country who were frustrated about the COVID policies of the day converged on the Parliament grounds. Winston Peters was the only politician to walk amongst those who asked simply to be heard\u2014Winston Peters was the only politician to walk amongst those who wanted to be heard. Now, as I was writing this speech, I was reflecting on why he did that, and I was reminded of the speech that he made at the state of the nation last week. I will quote the leader: \u201CLabour left large numbers of people ostracised, demonised, shutdown and shut out, ignored and cancelled\u2014all because those people fought for their right to say \u2018No, we disagree.\u2019\u00A0\u201D We will defend people\u2019s right to disagree, because that is what protecting freedom is all about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EWe continued to listen, and for those forgotten New Zealanders, our party advocated during the 2023 election to advocate again for freedom and protection, and upon our return to Parliament, we formed this unbreakable coalition. Very importantly, amongst those promises, the coalition committed to establishing a complete, full-scale, wide-ranging, independent inquiry conducted publicly with local and international experts into how the COVID-19 pandemic was handled in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow, New Zealand First were very specific in our commitments, and there were four important areas that we wanted to cover: firstly, the use of multiple lockdowns; secondly, the procurement and the efficacy of the vaccines; thirdly, the social and economic impacts, both regionally and nationally, on the people of New Zealand; and, finally, whether the decisions made and the steps taken were justified. We remain steadfast in our commitment. We understand that the Labour-initiated royal commission of inquiry into lessons learnt does not meet the scale, the independence, or the breadth of what an inquiry requires. We welcome the first steps made to expand these terms of reference of this inquiry, and we applaud the 11,000 New Zealanders who made their submissions. Now, these experiences are what are going to shape and be used to inform what this inquiry covers. The decisions about the terms of reference and the make-up of the commissioners are yet to be made over the next few months, but it will be made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has continued to listen to the people of New Zealand. In fact, just last month, the Rt Hon Winston Peters and I met with a group of Kiwi doctors who are concerned\u2014NZDSOS, or New Zealand Doctors Speaking Out with Science\u2014and we listened to those people because they needed to be heard. Mr Peters has also since met with United We Stand, who are those New Zealand Defence Force personnel who are still concerned about mandates and vaccine orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First believes that every New Zealander deserves to be heard and represented in Parliament, and we are committed to that. Our message to them is to be patient, to work through the process with us, and to know that you are all being heard and that we will remain steadfast in our commitment to protecting freedom and democracy for all New Zealanders. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00223552b5be00524ec8b6ee49f0db82701f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223552b5be00524ec8b6ee49f0db82701f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Over the last week and a half, New Zealanders of Myanmar descent have been asking why this Government has extended an invitation to representatives of one of the world\u2019s most reviled regimes\u2014the military junta that run Myanmar today\u2014and why the Government has invited them to come to this country to take part in an intergovernmental meeting. The communities of mostly former refugees and their families, from one end of this country to the other, who have made a new life in New Zealand after fleeing years of civil war in Myanmar and military oppression have written to the Rt Hon Winston Peters, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, asking him to refuse the visa for representatives of this regime to come to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re due to take part in an ASEAN dialogue meeting on 18 and 19 April here, in Wellington, and I want to give a shout out to the people who have been campaigning. They have organised public protests in Nelson, in Auckland, and, yesterday, out in the front of Parliament, and in Dunedin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t know why, after three years of New Zealand\u2019s standing firm against the butchers of Myanmar and refusing to give them legitimacy and refusing to recognise them, suddenly this Government thinks it\u2019s a good idea to invite them to come to New Zealand to take part in this meeting. But I want to give you three reasons why it\u2019s a really bad idea. This regime is waging a war against its own people. It has killed more than 4,800 civilians. It carries out indiscriminate air strikes against villages and internally displaced persons\u2019 camps within that country. It stole democracy at the barrel of a gun that arrested the president and Aung San Suu Kyi, dozens of legislators, and thousands of democracy activists, trade unionists, and journalists. Two and a half million people are displaced in the country at the moment because of this regime. It is one of the world\u2019s worst military regimes, and we should not be giving it the legitimacy that it desperately craves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe second reason is that New Zealand, for a long time, has been a country that has a reputation for speaking out on matters of principle internationally. The people in our regions\u2014in the Pacific and in Asia\u2014look to New Zealand to be a voice for democracy, for peace, and for human rights, and this decision to invite the butchers of Myanmar to come to our country after three years of denying them that opportunity flies in the face of New Zealand\u2019s policy of consistently denouncing the military regime in Myanmar. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe third reason is that the democratic resistance in Myanmar, three years since the military coup, is on a roll at the moment. The National Unity Government, the Government in exile, and the ethnic resistance organisations that are such a significant part of the resistance have had a string of military successes, and 43 percent of the territory of Myanmar is controlled by the democratic opposition, not by the military regime. The level of political organisation, of people standing up for human rights and democracy and demanding a democratic federal union in that country to do away with the military dictatorship\u2014that movement is stronger than ever before. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe military, on the other hand, is looking increasingly shaky. They recently introduced conscription. Young people between the ages of 18 and 35 are now being press-ganged into military service because the military is so desperate. They\u2019ve had thousands of soldiers defect from the war because they don\u2019t want to fight on the side of this brutal and illegal regime. Now is the very time that we should be isolating that regime, not inviting them to New Zealand to take part in talks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI want to finish by quoting the former Prime Minister of New Zealand Helen Clark, who said, \u201CAcceptance of the Myanmar junta representatives when the country\u2019s ruling junta has been internationally condemned for crimes against humanity and its ruthless war against its own people, and is under severe pressure from the pro-democratic forces in the country, would seriously damage the international reputation of New Zealand. For New Zealand to grant a visa to a Myanmar junta representative because ASEAN has issued an invitation is an abdication of our national sovereignty.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI say to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, to do the right thing. Refuse the visas, and keep the butchers of Myanmar out of our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00223b1638caa94740a5ba6704a06bfbe250\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b1638caa94740a5ba6704a06bfbe250\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. One hundred days have been completed, the second hundred days are on their way, and this Government is determined to rebuild the economy, restore law and order, and actually deliver the public services in health and education that this country needs and deserves. So, look, what have we got? If we look back over the past six years, debt went from $5\u00A0billion to $100 billion under the previous Government. We had inflation, the economy ground to a halt so that we were in a recession, and all New Zealanders\u2014all New Zealanders\u2014have faced higher taxes, and so they\u2019re seeing greater opportunities offshore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWhen you think about that, you think about Jacinda Ardern and her legacy, and Chris Hipkins. I often thought if they were to come up with a billboard that they should have run in the election, it would have been \u201CIt\u2019s the thought that counts\u201D, and that sums up Jacinda Arden\u2019s whole approach\u2014it\u2019s the thought that counts. Well, actually, it doesn\u2019t. It\u2019s actually what you achieve and what you do that counts, and what the Government did is they managed to spend 80 percent more\u2014nearly doubled Government spending over six years\u2014and actually had worse outcomes just about everywhere you looked: longer waiting times, higher crime, fewer houses, and a real mess everywhere. How they managed to do it was they turbocharged spending during COVID, and then when COVID ended and people got back to their lives, they didn\u2019t stop. They just kept on spending as if we were in the middle of COVID, and that\u2019s how the damage was created.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo how do we get back on track? Well, you need a Government that\u2019s careful about its spending. You\u2019ve got to restore some discipline to Government spending, and over time, that will enable us to get back to surplus and to reduce debt. If the Government is more disciplined with its spending and it\u2019s not stoking the fires of inflation, that will help New Zealanders with the cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThen you\u2019ve got to have a growth agenda. You\u2019ve got to have a strong set of policies, such as investing in infrastructure and skills and attracting investment to grow the economy, and then some modest tax relief as part of this thing, to give New Zealand households more money in their pockets, and, boy, do those members hate it\u2014they hate it. Never will they release another cent. They will not give New Zealanders back another cent, and this Government is determined to return some of the extra money that has been taken out of their pockets by the Government over the past few years so that they can help with their weekly bills. The second area\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6a4451dc240490bb7f4c5870b452614\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s kindness\u2014that\u2019s kindness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262d1ac0c434e42f68bececdb3b17e442\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is kindness. We don\u2019t actually believe that the Government can spend every cent better than households can or than people can, and the people who have earned the money should be able to spend the money. It\u2019s their money and we want to give a little bit more of it back to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo, over the next month, we\u2019ll hear a lot of wailing from the Labour Party about how terrible it is to allow people to keep more of their own income, and that\u2019ll be the message of the day. Well, we reject that and we want to give some modest tax relief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe second thing is we want to restore law and order. We\u2019ve all seen in our communities the trauma that\u2019s caused by violent crime, by the massive increase in retail crime that we\u2019ve seen in our communities, and particularly by that small group of serious young offenders. That\u2019s why Christopher Luxon announced amongst the nine focused targets for this Government a couple in the justice space, reducing the number of victims of crime by 20,000. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ERemember, the previous Government had a goal of reducing the prison numbers, irrespective of what was going on. If crime was going up, they still wanted to reduce prison numbers. Well, that is not actually how you keep the community safe. We want to reduce the number of victims of crime, and to do that, part of it is about restoring real consequences for crime, and that\u2019s in the justice space. But there is a much broader agenda around ensuring that there\u2019s better rehabilitation in prisons for people who are in prison and that we make progress on some of those long-term drivers, such as the inability to deal with drugs and addiction, and all those broader social contexts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe other area is around youth crime. We want to reduce the number of serious repeat youth offenders, and that partly is about giving judges extra tools with which to deal with that small cohort. Having military academies are part of the mix, and also having a new category of young serious offenders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo we do need to have some consequences for that small cohort of young people who are causing mayhem in our communities, doing the ram raids, and terrorising neighbourhoods. But, again, it\u2019s part of a much broader discussion that\u2019s around ensuring that those kids are at school. That\u2019s the best thing we can do around youth crime, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re focused on that. It\u2019s about ensuring that we deal with not having 3,000\u00A0or 4,000 waking up every morning in emergency accommodation in hotels in places like Rotorua. That was the most horrendous public policy failure that we\u2019ve seen in recent times, and so that\u2019s why we\u2019re really focused on addressing that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo there are a lot of things that we\u2019ve got to do, but the good news is that this is a Government that\u2019s determined, focused, and excited about the task. We know that this country\u2019s best days are ahead of it. We want to take New Zealand forward, and that\u2019s what our goal is. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u0022aed5ba7b54574259be2d1a22ae677b78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aed5ba7b54574259be2d1a22ae677b78\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe, e te P\u012Bka. Otir\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. When given five minutes to do a general debate speech, I can 100 percent confirm it\u2019s almost like \u201CWhat isn\u2019t there to debate about?\u201D, especially when us, as M\u0101ori, are getting hit left, right, and centre. I want to take this time to reflect on the first 100 days of this coalition Government\u2019s actions, or, as I call it, the \u201CUrgent M\u0101ori Grocery List\u201D. This has to go down as the worst plan towards M\u0101ori and indigenous people since 1863. It is important that I break down for wh\u0101nau at home, and especially rangatahi, what has just happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EUpon shifting through and analysing legislation and bills, I would like to provide an overall context for this coalition\u2019s bigger picture for M\u0101ori. Let\u2019s point out the long list where this Government\u2019s 100-day plan detrimentally affects us in every possible area. Within our court justice system, this Government has removed section 27 of the Sentencing Act, which experts have stated will lead to further discrimination of M\u0101ori in the criminal justice system, higher rates of offending, and higher rates of M\u0101ori in prison, when we, as M\u0101ori, are already the most incarcerated indigenous people on the planet\u2014or within our health sector, which has seen Te Aka Whai Ora be completely abolished. Even in the bills that were received, some of the wording quite literally states, in black and white, the \u201CDisestablishment of M\u0101ori Health\u201D. Following from that was the repeal of Aotearoa\u2019s smoke-free legislation, knowing that smoking is the leading cause of preventable deaths of our people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EWithin these bills represented, it also clearly states amending relations through Te Tiriti o Waitangi. This is a common theme throughout bills represented and the relation to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. There is the removal of section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act, which iwi leaders have stated will further alienate tamariki from their whakapapa and lead to more harm of tamariki in State care. In our taiao space, the fast-track bill literally axes and tramples on our t\u016Bpuna whenua, pepeha, and w\u0101hi tapu. Within our education system, there is the so-called rebalance of histories in school, which is just a nicer way of saying that our M\u0101ori history will slowly slip away, and in recent news, in our local government space, there is the referendum on M\u0101ori wards. I mean, there\u2019s literally nothing left you can take away from us: section 27 in the court justice system, section 27AA in Oranga Tamariki, ministerial alienation of te reo M\u0101ori, disestablishment of the M\u0101ori Health Authority, the fast-tracking bill, the repeal of smoke-free laws, and the Treaty principles bill\u2014what a list. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI bet members across the House have never had a child lobby to them for the protection of their own native language\u2014imagine that. However, outside these four walls, te Iwi M\u0101ori is rising like never before. As we watch this Government dig themselves into a rabbit-hole, last week, in Parliament\u2019s recess, I was absolutely privileged to perform at the annual Merrie Monarch in Hilo, Hawaii, and jeez, it felt great to be M\u0101ori without the fear of being criticised and without hearing the word \u201Creferendum\u201D or having people roll their eyes every time I speak M\u0101ori, and without the fear of having to justify myself as to why I\u2019m being M\u0101ori. It almost feels illegal to be M\u0101ori in this place, and I would never have known it was a thing until I entered Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ETe Moana-nui-a-Kiwa is on the rise. Our King and other Pacific leaders have signed He Whakaputanga Moana, which is a declaration\u2014whakaputanga\u2014on the biggest body of water: the Pacific Ocean. N\u014D reira koinei taku reo mihi, taku reo owha ki a t\u0101tou te iwi M\u0101ori, ki a koke tonu ki a t\u0101tou ki te angitu, ki t\u014D m\u0101tou Hawaiki hou. T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[Therefore, here is my voice of acknowledgment, my voice of salutations to all of us, the M\u0101ori people, to push forward towards success, to our new Hawaiki. Thank you, all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u0022b875d389e74a45f1b44905142341ff99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b875d389e74a45f1b44905142341ff99\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to bring attention to a silent enemy that is affecting countless lives in New Zealand, and that is cancer. While it\u2019s not quite countless and we can actually put a number on it\u2014it\u2019s going to affect probably 25,000 New Zealanders this year\u2014each one of us has probably either been touched personally by cancer or we know of friends or family members who have been affected by cancer. Most recently for my family, there\u2019s been the passing of my cousin\u2019s daughter at the age of 32\u2014Rosaria\u2014and I want to acknowledge all families that are going through that struggle and that loss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EI have a unique connection to cancer. I\u2019ve spent a large portion of my professional career as a cancer scientist, both here and overseas. I want to pay special tribute to a special person that\u2019s played a big role in that career, and that is my PhD supervisor, Professor Antony Braithwaite of the University of Otago, who has actually just announced his retirement as of next week. I don\u2019t think he will be really retiring; I think it will be more symbolic\u2014well, I hope it will be\u2014and I hope he can contribute a lot of his knowledge to the future generations, going forward. Professor Braithwaite is a leading world expert in one of the most important tumour suppressor proteins in the human cell, and that is p53. I want to acknowledge his contribution to our understandings of how cancer arises. With over 150 publications, he is well-known worldwide. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EIt is important, because cancer does not discriminate. It strikes individuals of all ages, all backgrounds, and all walks of life. It brings fear. It brings pain and uncertainty, not only to those diagnosed but also to their loved ones as well, and that\u2019s why on this side of the House we are committed to driving better outcomes for Kiwis with cancer. This includes enhanced screening: we\u2019re increasing breast cancer screening eligibility for those between the age of 70 and 74. We\u2019ve launched an additional mobile breast screening unit, which will take the national fleet to 13, further increasing access for up to 6,000\u00A0people in New Zealand. But don\u2019t worry, males are also included: we are funding South Island PET scanning accessibility, which is especially important for males with prostate cancer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EOnce cancer is detected, we also need to make sure that we can get treatment on time, because this is a very stressful time if you\u2019ve just been told that you have cancer, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re introducing a health target that 90 percent of patients who receive a diagnosis will receive cancer management within 31 days of the decision to treat. Not only that, we\u2019re going to ensure that there\u2019s better treatment options. We\u2019re funding two new cancer drugs, for breast cancer and also acute myeloid leukaemia (AML), and on a side note, I have a special connection with AML. It was the first cancer that I ever worked on and I discovered a genetic mutation in a Christchurch family with a predisposition to leukaemia. But I digress, and that\u2019s what happens if you don\u2019t have targets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003ESo, getting back on track, we\u2019re also mindful of people in the regions who need to travel to get cancer treatment, or, actually, all treatment, so we\u2019re increasing the compensation for mileage and accommodation rates for those who have to travel for treatment. We\u2019re also helping deliver the first provincial PET/CT scanner, and that\u2019s going to go into Whang\u0101rei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EI appreciate my time is going quickly. So I do just want to zoom out more generally from cancer and talk about our healthcare more generally and the targets that we\u2019re going to introduce into the system, because, as they say, if you can\u2019t measure it, you can\u2019t manage it, and that\u2019s probably what\u2019s happened for the last five years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Health, Dr Shane Reti, recently announced a number of targets, saying that we\u2019re going to have a vigorous new direction in health from the previous Government and we\u2019re going to deliver for New Zealanders. Now, I\u2019ve talked about faster cancer treatments, but our targets also include improving immunisation for kids: we want 95\u00A0percent of children to be immunised by the age of 24 months. We want shorter stays in emergency departments (EDs), with 95 percent of patients being discharged or transferred from ED within six hours. We want shorter wait times for first specialist assessments: we want 95 percent of patients to wait less than four months for a first specialist appointment. We want shorter wait times for people with elective treatment: we want 95 percent of patients to wait less than four months for elective treatment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EIt is important that we are ambitious in trying to achieve better health outcomes for New Zealanders. The healthcare system went backwards under the previous Government and it failed to drive targets. Having effective targets and reporting on them publicly helps identify where the problems are, and we\u2019ll take action to improve it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003EI know the other side is shouting because they don\u2019t want better health outcomes, but I do just want to close and thank all the hard work of our healthcare staff, who work across the country to deliver better health outcomes for all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u00224bc99ad9d14e428c9d88fcee1340f5c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bc99ad9d14e428c9d88fcee1340f5c3\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Methane\u2014that\u2019s right. Biogenic methane, animal ruminant methane\u2014the very gaseous emission that the left lambasted the rural sector for for the past six years, like somehow there\u2019s a farmer amongst them. I ask them: what on earth are you talking about? Well, I say there are no farmers. Where are you farmers, that you speak of such things? What of Megan Woods or Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick yesterday and today offering evangelical sermons of what farmers should do to farmers? Debates offered from central Auckland of how farmers should live their lives. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThis Government: we are farmer friendly. We listen to common sense. That is why I\u00A0rise today in this House to speak of the Government\u2019s split-gas announcement. That is why oral questions raised yesterday by the left highlighted their blatant ignorance of farming and on-farm practices. What\u2014did you all fail third-form science? Gracious me! It\u2019s a short-lived gas. That\u2019s why this Government wants a genuinely non-partisan review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EGoodness gracious! Methane decays back to carbon dioxide\u2014it decays back to carbon dioxide in 10 or 12 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244383460d89641e190ceb9a1404af5d9\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Woah! The independent climate commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226382a844a0d3424ea47e69ddff727966\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: You all know this stuff, because what feeds plants? Oh! Or could\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222983c7810bf439d941deec65e84a560\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to call them? That\u2019s not Chl\u00F6e; it\u2019s the independent climate commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204bf1e8b33f94eea95a7c7e75d882d93\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, just keep it reasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225869d118081f4f48b7277dcc3c5986bc\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014you go farming, or perhaps you\u2019re just bereft of it? The agricultural contributions are, essentially\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e91e06e74d44e2a97d08c60171c57d0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022550f9bac37b1451d8699a4aa3fd70bc7\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014static. They\u2019re static. Peak herd was in 2005 and 2006. Ruminant numbers have been falling ever since.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWhat do you, the Greens, know of farming? What, would you have us slaughter all our animals? If not, how many\u2014how many should we slaughter? Bloody fantasy, I say to the Green Party, when it comes to that nonsense. New Zealand used to have over 70\u00A0million sheep\u201470 million. It\u2019s now less than 25 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EPeak dairy herd has been falling since 2005, and land-use changes are constantly evolving. What, did the left forget to account for all farm on-farm sequestration? The tens of millions of plantings by farmers\u2014farmers\u2014and existing offsets. Oh, the silence from the other side is deafening. So the true question is: what is the Government asking? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b40db0ea55c4490cbcd10dcba426be25\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: So when are you going to listen to the science? Where\u2019s your science?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280a2adc14fcd4dd5a7519224a84c16fb\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Are the methane targets fair? Are they fair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6f2059af503434abd6688ceac52b4d0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry to interrupt the member. I\u2019ll ask the Green member to refer to Speaker\u2019s ruling 64/2 and, for that matter, Speakers\u2019 ruling 64/3 in the Speakers\u2019 Rulings. A member, strictly speaking, has a right to be heard in silence. No one observes that because interjections can be rare and reasonable, but the barrage that is coming from there breaches that Speaker\u2019s ruling absolutely. So we\u2019ll just have the rest of Mr Cameron\u2019s speech respectfully listened to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220673038777c64c5ea27066c89358a588\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: I am certainly grateful, Mr Speaker, thank you. I ask again: are the methane targets fair? What is fair? How will we, as a Government, prevent emissions leakage if we get the methodology wrong to less efficient jurisdictions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWe are the most efficient, friendly farmers in the world, second to none, and I am not shy about saying that, and yet we hear the left say all the time, \u201CYou lot\u201D\u2014the farming sector\u2014\u201Cyou need to do more.\u201D Ivory towers\u2014that\u2019s all I say to them. Wake up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EMethane is simple. It\u2019s the symbiosis. The morphology of gut bacteria\u2014animal gut bacteria. It\u2019s what we\u2019re feeding these animals and their genetics. We\u2019re a plant-based pastoral system, for goodness sake, and yet I hear the boffins say, \u201CUse boluses\u201D. Well, I\u2019m a farmer that\u2019s got five or six broken bones from drenching animals. What a nonsense! \u201CDrive down the emissions.\u201D, they say. Does anyone on that side of the House actually know how many mature animal bovines would have to be drenched annually, twice a year? I ask you\u2014you do not know. I would ask that side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EFurther emission reductions will happen. Farmers embrace technology every day. The Government has announced GE as part of our future, moving forward. It is what we are feeding these animals, and having animal genetics and farmers that embrace that technology is our new future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EI know that that side of the House may struggle to comprehend that logic, but, then again, farm logic is beneath them; not this Government. Farmers always have and will continue to innovate their way out of these problems. With sensible, farm-gate logic, rural New Zealand will seek and mitigate the quandary which is methane science and emissions. We will no longer fester in the left\u2019s ideology if we, as a farming community, are backed by the Government, and every day we thank them for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f990b44899514ec09a8d0e98e23332f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f990b44899514ec09a8d0e98e23332f4\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just want to begin my contribution by responding to a couple of the comments that were brought up today\u2014in particular, the one from the New Zealand First member Tanya Unkovich, who talked quite a bit about the previous Government\u2019s response to the COVID pandemic. Quite frankly, I found some of her comments absolutely sickening. When she questioned the efficacy of vaccination and the efficacy of other things that the Government put in place at the time to protect New Zealanders, I would ask that member: has she spoken to other members in the community? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EFor example, I was in the taxi coming back from the airport one day, talking to the gentleman who was the taxi driver, who had returned to New Zealand as soon as he was able to, when the borders allowed him to, from the UK. When he was in the UK, he was a police officer. They were doing 12hour shifts, day in, day out, simply removing dead bodies from homes in the UK\u2014and the member opposite from New Zealand First can shake his head. But\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e834166ab72b4cff9c4995851d310203\u0022\u003EJamie Arbuckle\u003C/span\u003E: The truth\u2019s coming out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c851aab44414860b6e895361e470674\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: That is the truth\u2014that is the truth, as this man experienced it in\u00A0the UK. So he and his wife returned to New Zealand purely because of our response to\u00A0the pandemic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EAnother example I will give that member opposite is a woman whose daughter is a\u00A0nurse in the UK, and the conversations she\u2019d have at night with her daughter in\u00A0absolute tears and despair because she was in hospital, COVID was rife, and there\u00A0were dead bodies in the corridors. There were dead bodies piling up, and they simply couldn\u2019t manage it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4ab643fd5cd4fc0a6b23f0237961eef\u0022\u003EJamie Arbuckle\u003C/span\u003E: Lock us all down\u2014lock us all down. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222410cf1517ce4a719acfa0810bfc6759\u0022\u003EHon JO LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: And the member can dispute that, but this is what people are telling me from their firsthand experiences. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EThe Hon Paul Goldsmith talked about the previous Government turbocharging spending during COVID. Well, I would argue with Mr Goldsmith that that turbocharged spending saved businesses, saved lives, and saved livelihoods, and we make no apology on this side of the House for doing so by putting people first. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI want to pick up on something that the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins talked about in his contribution, about choices and the choices that we see this current Government making. This current Government, as he mentioned, is choosing to give a $2.9 billion tax cut to landlords. We heard the Hon Nicola Willis talking about the fact that it was important to give Kiwis more of their own money that they earn to put in their back pocket, and I\u2019m not disagreeing with that. But what I find really interesting is when the Minister makes comments like that, and then we see people on the news at 6 o\u2019clock saying, \u201CWell, actually, what I\u2019ll get for my tax cut is probably the equivalent of being able to buy two Chupa Chups.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003ESo for a Minister to stand there and talk on and on and on about how wonderful it is going to be for people to have more money of their own money to put in their back pocket\u2014I agree that that\u2019s a good thing. But for someone to brag when it\u2019s only going to be the equivalent of a couple of Chupa Chups for some people, and yet a far higher amount for people like us here, in Parliament, as MPs\u2014we don\u2019t need the tax cuts that the Government is proposing or wanting to put in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EOne of the things that we definitely don\u2019t need tax cuts for is when it comes at the cost of people\u2019s jobs and livelihoods, because that is what is happening. Ministries are being stripped out. Public servants are being stripped out and are losing their jobs purely to pay for tax cuts\u2014tax cuts that will provide lower-income earners with the equivalent of two lollipops in their back pocket. It is absolutely appalling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002226b88bf1-f634-40e7-8019-e75cc483ace7\u0022\u003EI want to also quickly talk about early childhood, a passion of mine. We\u2019ve heard this Government\u2019s laser-sharp focus on the cost of living crisis, and yet their early childhood policy is simply going to create more bureaucracy for parents when early childhood is one of the most expensive in the world, here in New Zealand. I could say more, but my time has run out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00220718234bf4c94c1aa19cdbe695fe7e41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220718234bf4c94c1aa19cdbe695fe7e41\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National\u2014West Coast-Tasman):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, and I\u2019ve got to say this feels like a very strange vantage point to be speaking from in the House today. Today I want to focus on some of the great things that are happening in West Coast - Tasman, and, as the newly elected electorate MP for West Coast \u2013 Tasman and formerly a list MP based there, I know it\u2019s been tough. It\u2019s been tough for many communities as they\u2019ve had to deal with the torrent of unpopular and damaging Government policy. On top of the consequences in the aftermath of closed borders, which has left New Zealand with massive supply chain issues and massive staffing challenges, the cost of living has gone through the roof, and it\u2019s being fuelled largely by domestic inflation and many businesses are struggling to climb out of that hole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EBut, never fear: our new Government is here. Common sense is back and we\u2019re going to get the economy thriving again\u2014back on track, as we say. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215590c279d1c4292ae257e2405916bb3\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Tax cuts that are inflationary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4ecd48a4444459a9fc25cc1cb3899a9\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s now\u2014we know it, and we understand fully. There is no one silver bullet, so we\u2019re going to use every opportunity we can to create economic gains, and we will do that in a small way by using my member\u2019s bill, as an example. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EIt just makes another demonstration of economic common sense, and that\u2019s my member\u2019s bill, which has gone into the ballot today: the Adverse Weather-affected Timber Recovery on Conservation Lands Bill, which will enable the Director-General of Conservation to decide on the harvesting of parts of trees irreversibly damaged in weather events. Now, this system was extremely well tested after Cyclone Gita, when some temporary legislation went in place, but it only lasted five years. This bill will give a permanent arrangement in legislation to enable the director-general to make those decisions about harvesting trees that come down in adverse events. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThis is how we on the Coast can make the best of a bad situation. It is a bit of a silver lining, but what we want to do is create an economic benefit from an adverse event, helping to build the New Zealand economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EEven as we speak, we may be testing this theory because the West Coast is currently experiencing a severe weather event. We\u2019re no stranger to them\u2014we know that\u2014and we do understand that damage does get done, but if we can extract some economic benefit, then we should, and I\u2019d like to take this opportunity to give a big shout out to Mayor Helen Lash, the emergency management teams, civil defence, police, NZTA, and all the volunteers and community groups that mobilise during these severe events. Unfortunately, they\u2019re very well practised, but they do work closely to keep the roads and the businesses open, and they have done exactly that. The West Coast is still open for business, even though there is an orange weather alert coupled with king tides, but they want to make sure that everyone still understands that 300 millilitres of rain does not shut the Coast down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EOne of the most effective things a Government can do is give people hope, and hope is now what we have in abundance in West Coast - Tasman. Much of that hope comes from the proudly proclaimed support for the mineral sector. With growing demand for minerals, we on the West Coast are home to an abundance, and it makes good, common, economic sense to reap the benefits of those minerals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EI am unashamedly in support of the mining sector, and if we want to use an example of how well the mineral sector supports a country, we only need to look across the Tasman to see Australia and how they have benefited. They navigated the global financial crisis well because they have a mineral sector that backs their country. It enables them to do things like invest in their schools, their hospitals, and their social services to make sure that they maintain their standard of living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EIf we\u2019re going to unlock the economic potential of New Zealand, we have to unlock the door to minerals, and that is exactly what this Government is doing. Mining is essential if we\u2019re going to enjoy our modern lifestyle, and that is why this Government has introduced the Fast-track Approvals Bill. We\u2019ve got to get this country moving. We\u2019ve got to unlock the potential that we\u2019ve got. The people on the West Coast have a skip in their step. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022de1a2f92257c44008aa3e7c1b1dd618c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de1a2f92257c44008aa3e7c1b1dd618c\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E We\u2019ve just heard a speech from the National member Maureen Pugh which makes it quite blatantly clear why the Greens\u2014[Knocks glass over] No, I support fresh, clean, water for everyone\u2014which is why this environmental fast-track bill must not go ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThe speech that we\u2019ve just heard makes it really clear that this is New Zealand\u2019s most anti-environment Government in decades, continuing to play off the wellbeing of our people and our beaches, our bushes, our ocean, and our soil health for living a decent life. We can actually and should actually understand that protecting the integrity of our environment is key to us living decent, quality, enjoyable lives. This Government is so restricted in its view and its understanding that the only way we can have a good life is if we trash everything that makes us us\u2014if we trash our soil, our ocean beds, our moana, our quality of water, our lakes, our air, and our democracy, which is what is being proposed in the fast-track bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just a trashing of the environment; it\u2019s a trashing of the very democratic functions that we would hope this Government is holding up. Instead, this Government is proposing to concentrate power in an unprecedented way\u2014into the hands of three Ministers\u2014yet they\u2019re trying to make it look like they\u2019re going to have some level of independent consideration with some pretend panels that are going to have some sort of opinion. But the final power rests with three Ministers. Now, which Ministers? Not an environment Minister, not a conservation Minister, and not even a health Minister for proposals that are up for grabs on things like toxic and hazardous waste when environmental and local authorities have already declared that there is too much of a risk to human health. None of those Ministers will have any consideration in the final decision-making power. Instead, it is simply infrastructure, transport\u2014what\u2019s the other one there? I\u2019ve got\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b049c4985f7c45b9a40107ce34075e23\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Regional development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebb99b31960049b8b7415aae8976fde9\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Regional development. None of the environment, conservation, or human health considerations are included in this massive concentration of unprecedented power to Ministers\u2014wow! This Government is just saying the quiet, naughty bit right out loud now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re just saying quite clearly\u2014we heard it in the speech from the previous speaker just now. We just heard them say, \u201CMining is the only way we are going to enjoy life as we know it.\u201D What limited and under-ambitious thinking is that that cannot see the irreparable harm\u2014it\u2019s short-term thinking\u2014that can come from the slaying of our precious wild places. It is such short-term thinking when we actually have what we need in Aotearoa to ensure that we can all enjoy good lives and have the housing and income and education and health that we need and can fund if we just would simply not have to scramble looking for tax cuts for rich, wealthy people and landlords. We could, actually, instead have well-funded public services and ensure that everyone is having a good life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EBut, no, the answer is mining and taking school lunches off tamariki. No\u2014that is shameful, that is short term, and that is not even creative or imaginative. That\u2019s really old\u2014it\u2019s fossil thinking. It\u2019s fossil thinking and it is not forward thinking at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EWe know that the rangatahi and the communities are standing up around the country. They are where our solutions are lying. They can see that the protection and conservation of Tiriti rights, of iwi, hap\u016B, and mana whenua making sure our local communities and experts are discussing and are part of decisions about what we do and don\u2019t fund when it comes to consenting and fast-track proposals\u2014those are where the decision makers are. Those are where the inspirational leaders are. They know that, actually, our long-term health and wellbeing and quality of life relies on us being able to drink the blinking water\u2014for crying out loud!\u2014and being able to fish kai moana from our harbours and seas, for crying out loud! They can see where our longevity and endurance lie, and it\u2019s not with fast-track proposals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022eeb4e8122cce422f95d66413b972a59d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eeb4e8122cce422f95d66413b972a59d\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a privilege for me to stand and speak for the first time in the general debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EA couple of weeks ago, I lodged a new member\u2019s bill which would see convicted murderers be ineligible for parole if they do not reveal the location of their victim\u2019s body. The Concealment of Location of Victim Remains Bill provides that offenders who refuse to disclose the location of a victim\u2019s body may be denied parole. My member\u2019s bill acknowledges the additional anguish faced by families who do not have a chance to lay their loved ones to rest because of an offender\u2019s refusal to disclose the location of a victim\u2019s remains. Furthermore, my bill will be another tool in the tool box to ensure our justice system prioritises victims over offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThis bill would amend two pieces of legislation. Firstly, it would amend section 9 of the Sentencing Act 2002 to include in a list of aggravating factors a sentencing court must take into account the failure of an offender to disclose the location of the body. Secondly, it would also insert a new section 28A into the Parole Act 2002. This would require the Parole Board, when considering an offender for release on parole, to refuse parole unless the board is satisfied that the prisoner has cooperated satisfactorily in the investigation of the offence to identify the victim\u2019s location.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EMy member\u2019s bill has been modelled on legislation from the United Kingdom and\u00A0New South Wales. The United Kingdom passed similar legislation in 2020, and New\u00A0South Wales in 2022. The United Kingdom law was brought due to the murder of Helen McCourt, who disappeared in 1988 and whose body has never been recovered. The offender was sentenced to life imprisonment with a non-parole period of 16 years, and was released in 2020 and died in 2022, having never revealed the whereabouts of Helen\u2019s body. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ESimilarly, New South Wales became the fifth state in Australia to introduce the legislation colloquially known as \u201CLyn\u2019s Law\u201D, after former Sydney teacher Chris Dawson was convicted in 2022 of murdering his 33-year-old wife, Lynette, who disappeared from their northern beaches home over 40 years ago. The body of the mother of two has never been found. This case was documented in the widely known podcast entitled The Teacher\u2019s Pet. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EBoth laws in the United Kingdom and New South Wales have successfully acted as incentives for those who conceal the remains of victims to front up about their whereabouts, and have prevented those who refuse to do so from being released on parole. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ECloser to home, Simon McGrath, the brother of Christchurch builder Michael McGrath, who was murdered by his childhood friend David Benbow in 2017, has been calling for a \u201Cno body, no parole\u201D bill to be introduced here in New Zealand. Mr Benbow was sentenced to life with a minimum non-parole period of 17 years in March of this year for the murder. However, despite extensive police searches, Michael\u2019s body has never been found, and his family have never been given the opportunity to have a proper farewell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ERecently, I spoke with Michael\u2019s brother Simon about my \u201Cno body, no parole\u201D member\u2019s bill. In the coming weeks, I will be meeting with Simon in person to help broaden my understanding of the situation and the anguish Simon and his family are experiencing, and to say how my member\u2019s bill can support them and other families across New Zealand who do not have a chance to lay their loved ones to rest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EUltimately, my Concealment of Location of Victim Remains Bill puts the victims of crime at the heart of our justice system. It is the intention of this bill to deny offenders the opportunity to return to society if they are not prepared to give their victim\u2019s family and friends the opportunity to be reunited with their loved ones. I look forward to this bill being drawn from the ballot, to working with the parties across this House to seek their support to ensure our justice system prioritises victims over offenders, and to giving New Zealand families the chance to lay their loved ones to rest and receive the closure they deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002213564423f84d43b1a9c262dab3be3033\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213564423f84d43b1a9c262dab3be3033\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The time for this debate has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8463bfe0b294c1486690fc29cd3ee2b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Bill of Rights (Right to Sustainable Environment) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f5654a6c06c402ca29d8bfb43170936\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u002290b4622424fa41e884c78c65ff21f6fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290b4622424fa41e884c78c65ff21f6fc\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the New Zealand Bill of Rights (Right to Sustainable Environment) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ETen years ago, Patrick Gower, the former Newshub political editor, pilloried my maiden speech as a call for human rights for snails, because in that speech I had pointed\u00A0out that, in my lifetime, fully half of all of the planet\u2019s wildlife has been extinguished.\u00A0This is ecocide: the destruction not just of species but of the habitats and the ecosystems that they need to survive. My proposition then was that legal personhood be extended to the natural world around us. If corporations have legal personhood, why not actual living things?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ETe Urewera, Te Awa Tupua, and, as of yesterday, Te Pire Whakatupua m\u014D Te K\u0101hui Tupua settlements do exactly that for Te Urewera, Whanganui River, and Taranaki maunga. I had hoped that we might be able to build on those remarkable settlements for a more universal law, a law protecting nature\u2019s general right not to be polluted, the right not to be degraded, the right to exist\u2014inherent, fundamental, and inalienable\u2014just like us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EE tangi ana ng\u0101 reanga o uta, e mahara ana ng\u0101 reanga a taima ta aha r\u0101 e whakamahana taku ora kia tina. When the creatures of the land, river, and sea are in distress, then I have nothing to be proud of. In the decade since I gave that speech, I\u00A0fear that we have made little to no progress in protecting the natural world from our predations at home or abroad. If anything, we seem to be going backwards. If you witness the current drive to repeal, unwind, and override nearly 40 years of environmental legislation, regulation, and jurisprudence, it appears to me that, in the current moment, there is actually less political consensus on even the most basic environmental protections than there has been for most of my lifetime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThis bill explicitly frames the state of the environment as a human rights issue, for which, I would hope, there would be more social licence and political consensus, because we are in the midst of a planetary crisis: of climate change; wilderness, wildlife, and biodiversity loss; and pollution. It is simply a statement of fact that each and every one of us depends on clean air, fresh water, healthy soils, and a stable climate for our very survival. You take any one of those away and our own human rights become untenable. The right to peaceful assembly, the right to freedom of expression or freedom of movement, all become less and less possible without a safe environment within which those rights may be exercised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThis bill creates a new provision in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act: section 18A. This will provide that \u201CEveryone has the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment.\u201D All the other features of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act will remain unchanged. This means that the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment will be subject to the same test of justified limitation as other protected rights. Now, some will argue, no doubt, that creating this new right will enable the courts to interfere with parliamentary sovereignty. It does no such thing, any more than the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act does today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIt would mean, under section 6, that existing legislation would be interpreted consistently with the new right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment. And, under section 7, new legislation would be vetted for compliance with that right. The bill will have other considerations as well. For example, it will assist the courts in interpreting ambiguous environmental legislation. It will also become an element of administrative decision-making, which means that Government bodies would be required to consider the implications of their decisions on the right of New Zealanders to live in a sustainable environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIncluding the right to a sustainable environment as an express right within the New\u00A0Zealand Bill of Rights Act is important for a number of reasons. First, it would require lawmakers to consider and to squarely confront the impacts of new legislation on our climate commitments, on our environment, and on future generations. Second, it requires Parliament to be honest and transparent with the public about the climate\u00A0and environmental implications of new legislation. If the Government introduces legislation that is inconsistent with the Paris Agreement commitments, or legislation that is actively going to cause environmental harm, this right will simply require the Government to be honest about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022198a2f1b60ac4d1991d83ac5d0374023\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: This is great, James.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acacf6c0a5744db694d90b13e529cf58\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW\u003C/span\u003E: Third, a standalone\u2014I know; tell me, right? A standalone right recognises the implicit value of the environment rather than having its value depend on the sphere of already existing human rights. It equalises human interests with those of the environment, making clear that when we protect the environment, we protect people and communities now and into the future. It reminds us that we humans are not superior to or separate from the natural world. We do not exist independently of other life on Earth. We depend on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EFinally, in this way, this right is consistent with tikanga M\u0101ori concepts around the connection between ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata and te taiao. And, on this last point, I do need to point out that the bill is written in a way to be consistent with the existing language and style of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. And, as such, the operative part of the bill does not explicitly acknowledge the M\u0101ori world view, in which humans whakapapa, ultimately, back to Papat\u016B\u0101nuku. So, in the general policy statement, there is a clause that refers to the tikanga M\u0101ori concepts of the connection between ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata and te taiao. Whakapapa, kaitiakitanga, mana, ki uta ki tai, taonga tuku iho, te ao t\u016Broa, mauri, ritenga, wairua, wairuatanga\u2014these concepts carry so much meaning and would add so much to our understanding of what the right to a sustainable environment looks like to us here in Aotearoa. And, if this bill is referred, I would hope that the select committee further develops the general policy statement in order to assist the courts in their interpretation of the right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThis bill is not a radical or even a new idea. While it is in my name, I do not consider it my bill, so to speak. I may be shepherding it through the House, but it was originally proposed by Lawyers for Climate Action NZ back in 2019 and supported by 59 then Queens Counsel in an open letter. We\u2019re hearing about the respect that the members of the Government have for the courts and for the judicial system, and they\u2019re heckling. It was proposed on an explicitly non-partisan basis, and that was out of a concern that the right to an environment that is capable of sustaining human life is so fundamental to our society that it should be explicitly recognised as a standalone right within the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, New Zealand is in a shrinking minority of countries that do not legally recognise the right to a clean and healthy and sustainable environment. In fact, about 80 percent of countries around the world already recognise this right in their domestic legal systems. That means that New Zealand is amongst the 20 percent of nations that do not. But it is a right that we have recognised internationally, because in 2022 it was the subject of a historic UN resolution, and New Zealand voted in favour of that resolution. We know that the window of opportunity to preserve or restore what little is left of our wildernesses and our native wildlife, the forests, and rivers and oceans and air that we depend on for our very survival, is closing fast. All human rights ultimately depend on a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment. The consequences if we fail are serious. This bill represents a simple legislative change, but an important one, and it is time for New Zealand to join the rest of the world and recognise the right to a sustainable environment. Whatu ngarongaro te tangata, toit\u016B te whenua. When the humans have left the world, the land will remain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a23f7bf59d144e61a0b16b5a8abf54ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a23f7bf59d144e61a0b16b5a8abf54ea\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00222b10f917c70746eca55e5f83a5e0608d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b10f917c70746eca55e5f83a5e0608d\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. As the Minister for the Environment, I rise to address the New Zealand Bill of Rights (Right to Sustainable Environment) Amendment Bill, brought forth by Green MP the Hon James Shaw. I would firstly like to extend, seriously, my best wishes to the member for his upcoming retirement from politics\u201410 years is indeed a noble effort and co-leader since 2015, so my very best wishes. I had not heard that your maiden speech was being characterised as \u201Chuman rights for snails\u201D, but it increases the anticipation I have for your valedictory speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EWhile we all share\u2014and we do all share\u2014an absolute common objective of safeguarding a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment for present and future generations, it\u2019s imperative that we thoroughly deliberate the implications of this proposed legislation. Let me underscore that the Government remains steadfast in its commitment to environment sustainability. However, we must approach this endeavour with a blend of pragmatism as well as caution. Our belief lies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cf38a8fcdbb4f4c851c0fff31b98ed1\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: And fossil fuels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bd483f111d74e9db367406e9545acca\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, fossil fuels\u2014it might be needed to be pointed out that the additional coal from Indonesia came in through the last Government. However, let me underscore that the Government remains steadfast in its commitment. We want to approach this with pragmatism and with caution, because our beliefs lie in attaining environmental objectives through intelligent and efficient measures that use the best science and the best technology to nurture economic growth rather than impede it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe introduction of section 18A into the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, though commendable in its intent, carries the risk of it inadvertently erecting barriers to economic development and investments. It is crucial to recognise that rigid interpretations of this bill\u2014as the member himself discussed\u2014might impose cumbersome regulatory obligations, potentially hindering growth and job creation. And this is just something that we simply cannot afford at this time in our country\u2019s history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EWhat we truly need are sensible and pragmatic environmental regulations that so much of industry across the country is crying out for that will yield tangible results. The existing regulatory framework has grown excessively convoluted, complex, and expensive to implement, failing to deliver the outcomes that New Zealanders rightfully expect. We believe that cutting wasteful compliance, rather than adding to it, is the key to unlocking the full potential of our nation, both environmentally and economically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EFurthermore, we harbour reservations about the potential watering-down of existing environmental protection laws and the ambiguity that could come from interpretation of this amendment\u2014how it might be introduced. We cannot afford to stifle innovation or constrain the evolution of future environmental policies in response to emerging challenges and scientific advancements. We know that in so many sectors, and particularly in the agricultural sector, we lead that innovation and advancement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI note the environmental interests are recognised already in several statutes in law, including the Environmental Act 1986, the Resource Management Act, the Climate Change Response Act 2002, and the Local Government Act 2002. We understand that fostering a conducive environment for investment is fundamentally essential to unleashing the economic growth that will drive our nation\u2014New Zealand\u2014forward. We seek not to add burdensome red tape but to strip it away, clearing the path so that we do get innovation and we do get prosperity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EIt is paramount, too, that our opposition to this bill does not diminish our dedication to sound environmental stewardship. We acknowledge the necessity for a balanced approach where economic prosperity and environmental sustainability can coexist harmoniously. We\u2019ve seen many examples of where rather than legislation pushing down, actions on the ground pushing up have created environmental improvements\u2014and we can see that across the country with the work that catchment groups do, and farmers are leading that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EWe must grow our economy not as an end in itself, but a means to an end; an end where we can invest in renewable energy in the form of wind and solar farms, infrastructure like a nationwide EV-charging network\u2014and heaven knows in our very large Southland region, we need a much more comprehensive network\u2014and provide investment into our research and our university sector to help them develop cutting-edge emissions reduction technology which will, in turn, generate more money to be invested back into the sustainable economy, forging a path towards a more sustainable future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESome people say it\u2019s very hard to be green when you\u2019re in the red. I like to take a more positive approach: it\u2019s easier to be green if you\u2019re in the black. So there are some\u00A0key things that we need to ensure that we have a better environment and also a stronger economy by cutting wasteful compliance, not adding to it. The greatest barrier\u00A0to achieving a low-emissions, high-productivity, environmentally responsible economy is regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003ESo, in conclusion, this Government is of the belief that legislation passed serves the best interest of our economy and our environment if we work together to craft solutions that promote sustainability, without stifling growth as we believe this bill would. We need to ensure a legacy of both prosperity and protection for our country and for our grandchildren.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI do not commend this New Zealand Bill of Rights (Right to Sustainable Environment) Amendment Bill to the House. I apologise that we are unable to do this for the member as he leaves Parliament, but again I reiterate that we do wish him all the very best as he leaves this House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00227e8914aa4e944267ae3567f30088fe51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e8914aa4e944267ae3567f30088fe51\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to start, of course, by acknowledging the member who\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d7ab82be31446a6a9a8dc67f1057651\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Speak for the fish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a36e9f8ec09c418fa813f349992c5132\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is bringing this bill, and that is the Hon James Shaw, who has done such a magnificent job in this place, speaking for the fish and the snails, and I\u2019m sure he\u2019s had something to say about Freddy the frog as well, and a little about climate emissions in there, too. He did say, when announcing that he was stepping down from the Greens\u2019 leadership, that he wanted to progress this bill before he left Parliament. So that is, of course, why Labour is voting for it, because I know I, at least, want him to stay here and see this bill all the way through the select committee process. So I am disappointed about the National Party position, but, hopefully, those other parties on the other side of the House will see the sense of sending this bill to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAs the member knows, I\u2019m not a huge fan of rights and rights legislation\u2014that sounds terrible, doesn\u2019t it? I do like the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, but there are some in my party and on this side of the House that are more about rights than I am. We have the great\u2014one of my colleagues in my 2020 class was, of course, Vanushi Walters, who\u2019s very much all about rights and doing better with our rights legislation in New Zealand. I was trained at Otago Law School\u2014I think it\u2019s something about what law school you go to, and I\u2019m in a slightly different camp in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EYou know, I have real questions about the flood gates opening with any extension to our New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. Do we include housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266c7ca4e8f824fcba58380805ca7d59e\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a367df746214bbc9510fb758c9fcb6f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Housing seems like a sensible thing to include\u2014I knew I\u2019d get that response. But, then, do we include property rights? And I say, \u201CAbsolutely not\u201D to property rights. Maybe housing and, of course, we\u2019ve got this environmental question in front us today. So it would be very good for the Environment Committee or the Justice Committee to consider this bill and to really flesh out those arguments. Is this the right place for such a right to be\u2014in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act\u2014should it be in its own separate piece of legislation? Those are the questions that it would be right for a select committee to interrogate. So we are supporting this bill, and other speakers will speak to some of those points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EBut I really want to speak to why I really want to support this bill, and it goes to what the member said in his speech, and I agree with all of that. We are in a dire, dire environmental place at the moment. We know we have a biodiversity crisis as well as our climate crisis. The last Government did work really hard to address some of these issues with the very broken Resource Management Act. Everybody in the House agrees that the Resource Management Act was broken. It was both not doing what it needed to do for the environment and also not doing what it needed to do for an efficient economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo we had the Natural and Built Environment Act with some very clear limits and targets and bottom lines. What happened to that? Oh, it got repealed in December. What else has happened? Well, today in question time, we heard that farm plans might be paused and that they need to be flexible and robust. That makes no sense. We don\u2019t know what that means, despite a whole lot of patsy questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EToday, 130 people at the Department of Conservation might be losing their jobs. We see that in the media. How many jobs at the Department of Conservation are backroom? That department is all about the front line: pest eradication, looking after a third of our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EYesterday, the Prime Minister suggested that genetic modification was going to somehow sort out decarbonisation. That is head-in-the-sand thinking. It is not addressing the problem that we have in front of us. Of course, genetic modification\u2014it may have a role to play. I\u2019m not saying that it doesn\u2019t, but it is not the silver bullet. It is not the be-all and end-all. It is not a reason to stop doing every single piece of work that was being done to decarbonise, like the electric vehicle discount, like public transport subsidisation\u2014all that stuff, out the window.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen, we have the full-on assault on the environment with that fast-track bill. We hear over and over again from Shane Jones that he is not interested in saving Freddy the frog, he is OK with extinction. That is not OK. We need everything that we can possibly do, every tool in the tool box, to remind people I how important our environment is to us, to the economy, and to future generations. Well done, Minister Shaw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef386f4a4c2f41bb95ca052caee15767\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef386f4a4c2f41bb95ca052caee15767\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The ACT Party won\u2019t be supporting this bill. I thought I\u2019d ask: what is environmental sustainability, James Shaw? I mean, it could be defined as the ability to maintain an ecological balance in our planet\u2019s natural environment and conserve natural resources to support the wellbeing of current and future generations. Well, that sounds really nice in a sound bite, doesn\u2019t it? But this bill is actually an attempt to legislate for that same 1970s socks-and-sandal vision of a Green world that has failed. It\u2019s failed when it\u2019s been tried in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIn the 1960s, 1970s, greenies like James Shaw believed that civilisation would end because we\u2019d run out of water, we\u2019d run out of food, and we\u2019d run out of energy; it turns out we didn\u2019t. Not only were those greenies wrong then but, since then, billions and billions of people have been lifted out of poverty by making one simple decision as nations, the Governments that led them\u2014that they were going to get access to the mineral resources, they were going to use their water, they were going to do things more efficiently, like the people in Singapore who had very scarce resources. They were going to get these oil and gas resources out of the ground, and they were going to lift billions of people in the developing world out of poverty. Well, James Shaw is saying, \u201COh, no, we shouldn\u2019t do that\u2014we shouldn\u2019t do that.\u201D, that the environment somehow should have a human right, or humans should have an environmental right. It\u2019s the most confusing, incoherent approach to environmental management and actually delivering for people. It\u2019s totally incoherent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, Australians are much wealthier than New Zealanders because they\u2019ve chosen to utilise their natural and physical resources. You know what? You can only dig the iron ore up once, but then you can sell it to somebody else for money and you can use that money to build better hospitals, better schools, and better roads, James Shaw.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EFood production has increased so much over the past 30 or 40 years, it\u2019s likely\u2014now, I\u2019m just reckoning, but no more reckoning than this bill is that might work\u2014there\u2019s probably more obese people in the world now than there are starving, because we produce so much food. That might be radical, but it\u2019s probably true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIf all of these nations had to decide \u201CDo we raise our people out of poverty now or do we lock up our resources and stay poor and unhealthy?\u201D, James Shaw would choose the latter. That\u2019s what his bill is driving for. Now, instead, could we use our resources to generate wealth, to treat water, to deliver energy so that we can heat our homes, healthier homes? Could we build landfills, instead of dumping waste in estuaries in the sea? These are all trade-offs that James Shaw\u2019s bill would make impossible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAdding another law which imposes costs on communities and individuals without any understanding of the benefits\u2014that\u2019s the trademark of lefties and greenies like James Shaw, the Green Party, and the Labour Party. No idea of the costs or the benefits from a former Minister of Climate Change who was part of the Government that banned oil and gas generation and then, just shortly after, millions of tons of coal started arriving from Indonesia; and set up a climate commission to provide sterling advice like banning natural gas connections from new homes for hot water and cooking!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, we just have to look back at this honourable member\u2019s track record. The Labour-Green 2017 agreement shows you what they mean by \u201Csustainability\u201D. I just clipped a few things from that agreement: reduce congestion and carbon dioxide emissions by cancelling the East-West Motorway Link\u2014that\u2019s a piece of roading that\u2019s supposed to get heavy trucks off local roads so that urban development can occur. That\u2019s what he means by sustainable development: keep those heavy trucks on local roads. And what about \u201Cbegin work on Auckland light rail\u201D? Well, cancelling transport projects to get heavy trucks off roads and spending hundreds of millions of dollars on colourful drawings won\u2019t get us to where we want to get to, even when it comes to human wellbeing or environmental improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve tried James Shaw\u2019s method. It\u2019s called the Resource Management Act. It\u2019s failed us for 33 years. This approach is totally unsuited to resolving inherent conflicts between people, the wellbeing we seek, and our desire to protect the environment and those special places. The result of New Zealand\u2019s socks-and-sandals sustainability experiment is that every year New Zealanders spend $1.3 billion trying to consent infrastructure so we can build more affordable homes and build transport\u2014even infrastructure that\u2019s desperately needed, like water treatment plants, held up. Every generation\u2019s going to have to work hard to grow their health and their wealth so we can feed our children first. That\u2019s the legacy we want to leave to our children and grandchildren, not this nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u00222ad01d75cd694511914c37e080e4eab3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ad01d75cd694511914c37e080e4eab3\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I feel honoured to stand on behalf of New Zealand First to do this call on the Hon Shane Jones\u2014beg your pardon, beg your pardon! How did I get that mixed up? On the Hon James Shaw\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d59bb857aa1043768ea9d1ede8e574ba\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Now vote for it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab4f0bdfca44fb1837d46d43e7c33f1\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH\u003C/span\u003E: What was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231fbb14c94574ac59aacf4feffe4922e\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Vote for it!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b57f565db547498ebc7ec41c7bebbfa0\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH\u003C/span\u003E: Yay!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0fa488cf51e4d0f944cd971cc972e09\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Brothers from another mother.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f52fe9bbceb34ec9b163ee256a2ec6df\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH\u003C/span\u003E: Brother from another mother, that\u2019s right. But look, I firstly wanted to acknowledge you and your contributions, and to wish you all of the best, on behalf of our party, for your future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220af6a0a8fcbb46a8b1ab035def59eab3\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220acccd349ff24058860265a0fda5158a\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. So the New Zealand Bill of Rights (Right to Sustainable Environment) Amendment Bill\u2014now, this aims to introduce a new section, section 18A, into the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990. Now, this section would ensure the right to a sustainable environment into law, affirming that every individual has the right to live in a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment. Now, New Zealand First recognises the importance of environmental stewardship and believes in achieving a balance between environmental protection and the responsible use of natural resources. The party advocates for evidence-based approaches to environmental issues and supports cooperation between Government and industry to achieve better environmental outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First also emphasises the importance of conservation, productive policies, and engagement with local communities to protect New Zealand and, of course, our unique ecosystem for our future generations. We have a fundamental principle and that is that all environmental policies are to be proactive with a view to creating employment and sustainable wealth, whilst improving one of our few competitive advantages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ESo New Zealand First will not support this bill. Now, while we acknowledge the importance of environmental sustainability, the party is cautious about enshrining specific rights in legislation without considering the broader implications. New Zealand First believes that any right must be balanced with corresponding responsibilities and that the proposed amendment may not adequately address the complexities of environmental policy and decision making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow, another reason that we do not support this bill is because of its potential impact on economic development. We prioritise sound economic policy alongside environmental stewardship. The party is concerned that the inclusion of a right to a sustainable environment in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act may inadvertently restrict economic development\u2014any opportunities\u2014or even create a legal uncertainty that could deter investment and growth. Also, New Zealand First is somewhat concerned with a lack of clarity on implementation and while the bill aims to recognise and protect the right to a sustainable environment, New Zealand First seeks clarity on how this might be done and how it can be implemented in practice. The party is concerned about potential conflicts with existing legislation and the practical implications for policy development and the decision-making processes in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, while New Zealand First shares the goal of environmental sustainability, the party does believe that the New Zealand Bill of Rights (Right to Sustainable Environment) Amendment Bill may not be the most effective or appropriate way to achieve this objective. Hence, as mentioned, New Zealand First will not be supporting this bill any further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8a801649dcc409eaaf4d89dd5970aec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8a801649dcc409eaaf4d89dd5970aec\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. Tuatahi ake ka nui taku reo whakamiha ki a koe, e James otir\u0101 t\u014D koutou tira kua k\u014Dkiri i t\u0113nei kaupapa, otir\u0101 t\u0113nei pire e whakamana ana i t\u014D t\u0101tou nei taiao.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[Firstly, I\u2019d sincerely like to show my appreciation to you, James, and your group who are leading this matter, this bill, to enhance our environment.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI rise on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori in full support of this bill, the New Zealand Bill of Rights (Right to Sustainable Environment) Amendment Bill. The human right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, with tikanga M\u0101ori concepts of connection between te ira tangata me te taiao [the human element and the environment.] For the majority of us on this side, this is the whole reason why we are here. That is why I\u2019m going to fully use my five minutes as much as I can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EEveryone has their connection to the land and water, which grounds us to our ancestral way of life. However, my personal connection will be our awa. As a Hauraki-Waikato kaitiaki, as a mokopuna of Waikato, our awa is our biggest asset on a spiritual level. We have been stripped of our right of connection to our awa due to the overwhelming capitalism that continues to take from our pepeha. The climate is constantly evolving\u2014that is its sole purpose. It\u2019s been changing since the beginning of time; however, it is the human change that needs to seriously be addressed. Without our k\u0101inga of R\u0101hui P\u014Dkeka next to our t\u016Bpuna awa, the detrimental harm that our t\u016Bpuna goes through\u2014for context, our awa gets hammered left, right, and centre, from big corporations like AFFCO, Fonterra, Tegel, Genesis Energy, and the old coal mining industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ENow, I come from a third generation freezing works wh\u0101nau, and as an iwi and hap\u016B we have a long relationship with Genesis Energy. I have many wh\u0101nau that work within these industries because they need to provide kai on the table for their wh\u0101nau. They heavily over-contribute to the 98 percent of our country\u2019s economy in the meat and dairy industry. They are providing kai for many people on an international scale; however, they can\u2019t even afford the bread and butter in the supermarkets, and we are left to continuously hurt our awa without even realising how much harm we are causing due to needing to put bread and butter on the table. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EThe reason I bring this up is because this is the whole overall contributing system that most rural communities face for tangata whenua in real time. This is our everyday reality that we face. In a study by the Environmental Protection Authority, M\u0101ori are more likely to live in areas with poor environment quality, with 51 percent of M\u0101ori living in areas with high air pollution, compared with 36 percent of non-M\u0101ori. In a Ministry for the Environment study, M\u0101ori are more likely to be exposed to contaminated drinking water, with 24 percent of M\u0101ori drinking from sources that do not meet water standards, compared to 16 percent of non-M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI want to specifically touch on the tikanga M\u0101ori concepts of connection between m\u0101uiui whenua, m\u0101uiui tangata. [sickly environment begets sickly people.] I consistently talk about our m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori and connection to the rongo\u0101 of our taiao, and parties opposite like New Zealand First consistently, continuously mock me in the media and even in public for my understandings of m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori, maramataka M\u0101ori, m\u0101ra kai cultivation, Matariki practices, or even when I noted that our marama had a kurahaup\u014D which would see extreme weather events, after which followed Cyclone Gabrielle. Now, I\u2019m not surprised by that, because we are the living, breathing reverses of the Tohunga Suppression Act. So they just simply don\u2019t understand. They just simply don\u2019t understand our m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori and its connection and its rongo\u0101 to our taiao. M\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori, tikanga M\u0101ori, indigenous customs and practices are a rongo\u0101 for our taiao.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EOtir\u0101 ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koe James me t\u014D tira e k\u014Dkiri nei i t\u014D t\u0101tou nei taiao ki angitu, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[And so, huge salutations to you James and your group leading this matter to ensure the best for our environment. Thank you, everyone.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5577942308e4120b580295daa4ae26a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5577942308e4120b580295daa4ae26a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Can I begin by thanking all parties of the House for cooperating at the Business Committee to allow this to have a first reading before James Shaw leaves. In this increasingly polarised, fractured world, it is fantastic to see our Parliament cooperating around a process step like this so that an important issue like this can be heard, even though the bill\u2019s going to go down, it appears. So I just think that we can congratulate ourselves for maintaining some sort of civility in this place in order to govern our country. So can I thank the Government members for their support of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThere is no doubt that the world has serious environmental problems. This graph comes from The Guardian today: it shows that for the last 10 months, consecutively, we have the highest temperatures ever recorded\u2014ever\u2014beyond the projections. Now, it may well come right because of the end of El Ni\u00F1o, and we might come back to some projections that aren\u2019t quite so scary, but by the end of the year we will know whether we are off the chart for ever. So we have serious climate problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe know that in New Zealand we have declining water quality in our rivers and lakes. And we know that despite that, the current Government is going backwards on climate. You know, we need to decarbonise transport and industrial heat. In order to do that, we need to build a lot more electricity, renewable electricity. In order for that to be affordable, we need to be able to allow those investors to hedge against intermittency. And yet the Government cancelled even finishing the cost-benefit analysis on project Onslow that the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment had already said stacked up as a good idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWe already had fast track to address the issues that Simon Court addressed, to speed up the process, because it does take too long and cost too much, and we had fixed that. But the current Government allows them to override the protections in the Conservation Act and the Wildlife Act and in the Resource Management Act, and we already know that in respect of the water space. We heard today that the Government is not only delaying the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management to be required to be implemented; they\u2019re actually talking about stopping regional councils implementing it even if they want to, which is a terrible thing. We also know that they\u2019re going to downgrade farm plans, which are a replacement for regulation, but they\u2019re going to be softer plans without certification and order. So we need stricter rules in New Zealand environmentally, to make it less easy to do that sort of thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat said, if this goes to select committee, we have to look at whether it should sit in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act or not, because the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act really protects personal freedoms: the right not to be tortured\u2014I\u2019ll read out a list of them in Part 2 of the Act, where they\u2019re listed\u2014the right not to be deprived of life or subjected to torture or cruel treatment, to be subjected to medical or scientific experimentation; the right to refuse medical treatment, electoral rights, freedom of thought, conscience and religion, freedom of expression, manifestation of religion and belief, freedom of peaceful assembly, freedom of association and freedom of movement. Those are the core rights that are protected by the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and they are individual freedoms and liberties that we are protecting. We have to be very careful to decide whether this sort of thing should sit in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act\u2014which I\u2019m a bit doubtful about myself, even though we\u2019re supporting it to select committee\u2014or whether it should sit in separate legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIf we invite the courts into this space, we are at risk of undermining the clarity which should apply to the freedoms that are protected by the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, by bringing in things that are more contentious as to resource allocation, as to what is the appropriate remedy within the purview of the senior courts to make declarations of inconsistency\u2014which could bring the court system into conflict with this place, Parliament, and I\u2019m not sure that\u2019s the right way to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo the Labour Party will be supporting this to select committee, and we hope other parties will too. But the issue as to whether this sort of provision should sit in the New\u00A0Zealand Bill of Rights Act or some higher environmental legislation is a very proper issue to discuss as a country. Because those rights that I referred to, those basic\u00A0human rights, including the right to freedom from discrimination, they are of a different\u00A0nature to some of the things that you need to do to protect the environment and I\u2019m not personally convinced that either they or social rights should sit in this\u00A0legislation, particularly given that we have created this obligation for the Parliament\u00A0through the amendment that we made to the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act in the last Parliament, to respond to declarations of inconsistency. I congratulate the member for bringing this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4793a3e3e474224bdd5bced13a5a330\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4793a3e3e474224bdd5bced13a5a330\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113nei te mihi ki a koutou katoa. Ki a koe te rangatira, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. What a complex world we live in. The way I look at this is that I empathise with the sentiment of what\u2019s trying to be achieved here and I think that around the House with many of the debates that we have, we have common goals, but we have different roles and different paths of being able to get there. It\u2019s the simplest way I can describe it, the difference between that side of the Hose and this side of the House, but I do empathise with having a world that has the best environment that we can get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EThe other side of that conversation to me is endearing\u2014to have a pragmatic outcome for our country, in New Zealand, but indeed the world. Because as we know, the environment has no boundaries in itself. We are a country that factually feeds more than 40\u00A0million people around the world, and we could say that we don\u2019t want to do that anymore and we\u2019re sacrificing our own environment here as a result of that. But this is the economy that provides us the lifestyles in the New Zealand that we enjoy today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EI wanted to acknowledge the former speaker, the Hon David Parker, with what he said about the fact that this diversity that we see across the House should be celebrated. That\u2019s what MMP actually produces, diversity of ideas. I feel that this House is stronger because of it, because it\u2019s the stretching of each other\u2019s ideas and each other\u2019s mindsets that actually provides the best possible decisions. I\u2019ve seen that myself personally in governance roles with boards, and you don\u2019t want a groupthink mentality around tables like that, you want diversity of views. So it\u2019s great to see different views, even though it frustrates some views of many of us, but it\u2019s something that we should actually celebrate indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003ESo, you know, as mentioned, you\u2019re shepherding this bill through the House\u2014sorry, not you Madam Speaker, but the Hon James Shaw, and I\u2019m on this side of the House here and I\u2019m not in a position to be able to support the bill. But I do want to talk about the environment, because a comment was made that I want to talk to you about. And the comment was that the environment today is worse than 10 years ago when you actually began in the House. My challenge to that is my experience of over 22 years in the Taranaki region as its chair of the regional council, which is I can point factually to some scientific evidence where we are making progress. It is a trend in the right direction, and we\u2019ve got a long way to go, but we are getting better, and we should actually pat people on the back more than actually lambaste them, because I\u2019m a believer in actually more of the carrot approach rather than the stick approach. And we do see a lot of lambasting of individuals rather than supporting success and growing that success in itself. I think there\u2019s a great thing that comes out of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EIn Taranaki, for instance, and I know it\u2019s only a small part of Aotearoa New Zealand itself, but Taranaki\u2014you know, I was proud to have my Taranaki wh\u0101nau here yesterday and you talked about the fact that Taranaki maunga is going to have the rights of an individual, of a person itself, and I support that. I think it\u2019s a great outcome and it\u2019s a long time coming. It\u2019s been a long journey in itself, and I believe the environment is going to be better for it as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003ETaranaki maunga has had some great programmes on it recently, particularly the predator control programme that\u2019s looking after our taonga species on that maunga. And we heard the member from the M\u0101ori Party speak to that yesterday, about the fact that it has been sacrificed by the fact that we had pests introduced to that environment and we\u2019re in a recovery mode right now. But we\u2019ve also done a great job around the ring plain of Taranaki; it just doesn\u2019t stop on the National Park; it actually goes around the ring plain. And we\u2019ve got farmers, we\u2019ve got everybody that\u2019s using the environment, the landscape, actually believing and making the environment better with regards to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EI wanted to finish off\u2014you know, I won\u2019t get the opportunity, the Hon James Shaw, to thank you for your contribution to the country and to this House itself, and I want to acknowledge that. I\u2019ve been looking from afar at politics for many, many years, and although I don\u2019t know you particularly well, you do come across as a man who is very courteous, who has great honesty and high integrity. Those are values that everybody should actually strain for. So I appreciate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003ESo, unfortunately, with my time running out, I\u2019m not in the position to support this. It has complexity with legislation, but I wish you well in the future. Thank you, James.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00224ddeb23d68164a708ece008360068634\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ddeb23d68164a708ece008360068634\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to take a call on this important bill. This is a bill that the National Party MPs have, in speech after speech, said that they generally agree with. They have spoken about how the member bringing this bill, the Hon James Shaw, has made an incredible contribution to not only this Parliament\u2019s understanding of climate change but public life in New Zealand. The member who has brought this bill has advanced not only New Zealand\u2019s public conversation about the environment and about our rights and interests in climate change and the things that we owe to Papat\u016B\u0101nuku and our environmental commitments as people on this planet, but he has also moved the conversation along for the entire world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt is a stain on the record of this Parliament that we are not sending it to select committee. All of the members of this House should be able to see that this is something worthy of debate, that this is something worthy of cross-partisan discussion, that this is something worthy of us coming together as a Parliament and putting aside our political interests for the rights and interests of generations to follow us. Whether or not you support a rights-based framework, whether or not you think the regulation is the way that we should deal with climate change issues and issues in the environmental regulatory space, whether you think that the free market will just sort it out and some dream of techno-futurism is going to fix it in a moon-shot kind of way, this is something that we should be having a discussion about. This is something the young people\u2019s strike on Friday afternoon, School Strike 4 Climate, was about. This is something that teenagers, that young people at universities, that young people all over Aotearoa expect leadership from at a parliamentary level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud to be able to speak in support of this bill, but I want to get into the detail of this at select committee. I wish the parliamentarians around the House were allowing that opportunity to occur. Yes, my colleague the Hon David Parker is right that it is good for this Parliament to be able to come together and to be able to debate this bill at this point. It is useful for us to be able to acknowledge that the kind of contribution that one member can make to advance this conversation is important\u2014and that\u2019s why we should have this debating time with him here in the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBut the kind of contribution that one member can make is vastly outstripped by a number of MPs getting their heads together in a select committee room and being able to have this conversation with not only the expert advice that is afforded to select committees but also available through the advice from the Ministry for the Environment and the useful work that has been done out there in the community on this issue. I wish we could have this conversation. I\u2019m so disappointed in the parties that are not voting for it, and I urge them to change their minds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022b887a46c7ed945649a5f2c21be7a2ed7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b887a46c7ed945649a5f2c21be7a2ed7\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s an honour to speak on this bill, and I acknowledge James Shaw for bringing this to the House. It is one of those things where sometimes when you are new to things and you look at it, you don\u2019t understand what it\u2019s about when you first read the title. I first thought that it might be that you were bringing the rights of Papat\u016B\u0101nuku to have the rights of personhood. That\u2019s what I first thought it was, which would have been very ambitious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204522270a47544d183dced99b42f5c1d\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s next. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E: Is that the next one? OK, is that your one, Chl\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aca8300dab26499cb356510a51afd547\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u00F6e? Yeah, that\u2019d be interesting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c6e04f486894503b76cfa8b438ae8cb\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, the National Party doesn\u2019t support this bill, as you know, and it\u2019s not because we don\u2019t care about the environment. We absolutely are focused on having sustainable environmental objectives, as well as having economic development. We think that we can do both. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bd41c8f5b5f4084abe38bf7ca19871f\u0022\u003ENow, Rachel Brooking spoke about the Resource Management Act (RMA) being unwieldy. In fact, there\u2019s general agreement across the House about the problematic nature of the RMA. I think when it was first introduced, the RMA was fewer than about 400 pages, and now it is well over 800\u00A0pages, and all of those insertions of amendments and schedules and additional clarifications over time has led to this kind of legislative quagmire. So I think that we should keep it in mind when we\u2019re considering this bill, because the National Party has assessed that this bill poses risks of increasing the potential for legal challenges and uncertainties surrounding the interpretation and the application of the bill. So the effect that that would have would be to hinder effective environmental management and decision-making. We think that we can actually have both a better environment and a stronger economy by cutting wasteful compliance, not by adding to it, and we believe that this bill would be adding to confusion and red tape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c684896f0314b318833e21dde68c51e\u0022\u003EMy colleague David MacLeod mentioned that he\u2019s seen environmental improvements over time without the need to add legislative requirements and to compel people, and I\u2019ve also seen some examples of that in my own electorate. A great example of that is through the Banks Peninsula Conservation Trust and the work that they have done in covenanting areas of land to protect them in perpetuity. That is something that the landowners have done voluntarily. They formed this trust together and worked with the Hon Dr Nick Smith to have the right to grant covenants, and then, together, they have worked through that process and have been extremely successful, and over 16,000 hectares of land is now under covenant because of that process. So we can see very good examples of where environmental protections happen without the need to compel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf1474fc3e4d42b9829e30410535151d\u0022\u003EAs other members have mentioned, there is a risk of bringing social rights into the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and there are the implications that that might have. The idea of the right to housing or the right to healthcare are other things that have been previously postulated as things that might be human rights, and they\u2019re very difficult to then manage and to have oversight of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d7a9820c8664393917e60bf832099ae\u0022\u003EIn summary, we think that although there are great intentions and ideas behind this bill that we agree with on some level, the problems that can come from good intentions that aren\u2019t implemented well should be something that the House is cautious of and that we guard against. So it\u2019s useful for us to have considered this and to discuss it, I think, and, like the Hon David Parker mentioned, it shows a level of civility in this House that we are able to do that for you in this time, Mr Shaw. So I\u2019m glad to have been able to discuss this matter, and although I like some of the ideas, I do not commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u0022a581c2f4d92648069270a100eb75995e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a581c2f4d92648069270a100eb75995e\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, thank you Madam Speaker. So I thank members around the House for their kind words, and I\u2019ve been considering how to respond to some of the arguments made in that light. First of all, I would like to thank the Labour Party and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori for their support for the bill. And I do want to recognise Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke for her speech, which I thought was probably, actually, the most evidence based, considered, and logical argument that I heard this afternoon, making those connections for exactly why the state of the environment does actually affect our human rights and therefore why it is important that we recognise that as such.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI just want to respond to a few of the other points before I move on\u2014one of which is, you know, the argument that David Parker made around the, kind of, slippery slope argument: the idea that if you introduce this, you might have to introduce a number of other things\u2014I think Rachel Brooking, actually, sorry, made this point\u2014one of which is around property rights. I would just say, if you want to create a human right to property, you\u2019d want to be very careful what you wish for, because you might have to hand back all the land that was stolen and swindled and confiscated. I want to say that this bill is a limited and a special gate\u2014it will not open the flood gates to other rights being introduced into the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere was the fantastic speech by Simon Court. Of course, he said, \u201CHere\u2019s a reckon\u201D\u2014and it\u2019s probably true, hence outlining how this Government makes its decisions: pub talk translated into Government policy! Despite the fact that they\u2019ve got this steadfast commitment to actual evidence in their coalition agreements\u2014this idea of just, like \u201COh, wait, here\u2019s some reckons. They\u2019re probably true. Let\u2019s govern the country on that basis.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank Lawyers for Climate Action, particularly Jenny Cooper KC and Dr\u00A0James Every-Palmer KC, for proposing any drafting and promoting this amendment, and, more recently, their executive director, Jessica Pelairet, for her support as the bill made it to first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI also want to thank the 59 King\u2019s Counsels who supported the amendment\u2014and if David Parker wants a debate about what the appropriate place is, I can find him 59\u00A0King\u2019s Counsels to have that argument with\u2014as well as organisations like World Wide Fund for Nature, who are supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, I was first introduced to the concept of ecocide, wild law and nature\u2019s rights law by a UK barrister Polly Higgins. Those conversations with Polly inspired me to make the rights of nature part of my work here in Parliament, which I laid out in my maiden speech. Now, sadly, Polly died of lung cancer in 2019, which is the same year that Lawyers for Climate Action first proposed the bill. But I do want to thank Polly for her leadership, and I dedicate this first reading to her and all of those who are working for Earthjustice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI want to thank Ng\u0101i T\u016Bhoe, Whanganui, and Taranaki iwi for having introduced nature\u2019s rights law into our legal framework here in Aotearoa. The country owes you all a huge debt of gratitude.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the Hon Christopher Finlayson for his leadership on the Crown side of that story as well. And a brief story, which was, I think, during the 2011\u00A0election campaign\u2014I was covering for Russel Norman in the seat of Rongotai. So I was in a debate that Christopher Finlayson was in. The Whanganui River settlement had just gone through. I said to him, \u201CHow did you get that past Cabinet? You\u2019ve just introduced nature\u2019s rights into the New Zealand statute. How did you get that past your colleagues in Cabinet?\u201D And he looked at me and he said, \u201CWell, it\u2019s a very interesting area of law.\u201D, and then walked off. In other words, I suspect they had no idea what was in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo, look, I want to conclude with another comment from my maiden speech, which is that my first female ancestor in New Zealand, Annie Mathilda Baggett, was the granddaughter of a Jamaican plantation slave during a time when slavery was seen as a vital component of the global economy and the abolition of slavery was opposed as a threat to financial stability and economic development. People pollute the atmosphere. They destroy rivers and species and ecosystems for the very same reasons that they used slave labour or seized land that once belonged to a people that they considered to be inferior. There is always debate and controversy about the expansion of rights. Whenever the status quo is threatened, there are always doomsayers saying that civilisation will collapse, or vested interests that are predicting that the economy will be destroyed\u2014and we heard some of those arguments today. But the changes that seemed so threatening never are, in hindsight, and the warnings that seem so serious to so many people always sound so absurd to subsequent generations. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228af9f6660dc943abb304a1768d25306d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the New Zealand Bill of Rights (Right to Sustainable Environment) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225dc8d19f3c2646c4bbff2275a8770c29\u0022\u003ERestoring Citizenship Removed By Citizenship (Western Samoa) Act 1982 Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022168cfa4874eb41f781deafa163636b36\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00223f61a88277374bab9a41676d59349bde\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f61a88277374bab9a41676d59349bde\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Restoring Citizenship Removed By Citizenship (Western Samoa) Act 1982 Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Governance and Administration Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EFa\u2018afetai i lau afioga le Fono Fetalai mo lenei avanoa. E muamua ona ou faatulou atu i le paia o le atunuu i ona tulaga faalupe. Ou te faatulou atu foi i le paia o alii ma tamaitai faipule ua tatou faatasi i lenei aso. Malo le soifua manuia ma le lagi e mam\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge elders both past and present and those who are with us in the House. I want to acknowledge reverend ministers and their families, and community leaders, dignitaries from the Samoan High Commission, and I note that the Speaker of the Samoan Parliament is with us today in the public gallery with his delegation of Samoan MPs from both political parties. I want to acknowledge other former MPs who are here today. I note former National Party MP Anae Arthur Anae, who is in the public gallery. And it is always good to see the Hon Aupito Su\u2019a William Sio back in this House. I want to acknowledge Fa\u02BBan\u0101n\u0101 Efeso Collins, who did his best to teach me a mihi in Samoan, and noting that I am probably the worst Samoan-language student he ever had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EAlthough I am not Samoan, can I say that I am Samoan-adjacent. All Pasifika peoples, all tangata moana are adjacent to each other. I mentioned Efeso, because, like others from our generation, as this House was moving through the Dawn Raids apology, he reached out to me, like many others, to tell me that there was more injustice to unravel, that there was further to go on this journey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EAnother Samoan friend of mine Renee Dingwall\u2019s dad, Su\u2019a Hans Schwalger, who\u2019s over in Samoa at this time, told her to tell her friend\u2014me\u2014to get rid of this Western Samoa citizenship Act. So, Efeso, Renee, and all the Samoans who I grew up with, this is for you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EOur parents\u2019 stories are our stories. Our grandparents\u2019 stories are our stories. Those narratives form our community\u2019s narratives. These conversations can be tough conversations, but they are important if we are to grow as a family of Pacific nations. I want to acknowledge Aupito Su\u2019a William Sio, who guided us through one of those tough conversations through the Dawn Raids apology. It is important work and we must continue to build on that work, and I see this as another step in that journey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThis is not the first time there has been an attempt to address this issue. I did note, before, the presence of former National MP Anae Arthur Anae in the public gallery and community members that brought a petition to this House in 2003. Over 9,000 people signed that petition. I also note, and I noticed in the gallery, that my Auckland University fellow alumni Dr Tofilau Nina Kirifi-Alai is here as well, along with Seiuli Savea Peseta, and there are many others listening from home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI make this observation\u2014and it is this: if you have Pacific Islanders from different political parties, who, in our own different ways, want what is best for our communities, then that is something that this House should take note of. That note should be that we need to have our communities heard at the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThere is a bit of history here, and I want to traverse it a little bit; it\u2019s in the context of the bill. It is Samoan history, but it is also New Zealand history, learning about the Mau movement and the independence movement in Samoa is such an important part of our history, which would give New Zealanders a deeper understanding of New Zealand\u2019s imperial aspirations in the Pacific at the turn of the century, and the painful consequences of those aspirations. What a lot of New Zealanders don\u2019t know is that New Zealand administered Samoa for 48 years as part of the World War I effort, on behalf of Britain from the then German colonial rule. New Zealand administered what we now know as Samoa, and the Americans administered what we now know as American Samoan. The New Zealand administration was so appalling and so bad that Prime Minister Helen Clark had to apologise in 2002.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EIn 1948, New Zealand citizenship was established. We went from being British subjects, to New Zealand citizens. It was in 1982 that the Privy Council ruled that all Samoans born between 1924 and 1948 were British subjects and, because of that, from 1949 onwards, they were New Zealand citizens. As the years go by, more of these elders will pass. It is estimated that there are less than 5,000 remaining. These are important stories that need to be heard and that is why this House needs to send this bill to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Privy Council, I want to acknowledge the pivotal role played by Falema\u2019i Lesa and her family and the committee\u2019s organisers who pushed that case. Falema\u2019i\u2019s contribution, we honour not only her personal and individual journey but the collective struggle of Pacific peoples for equality and for justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EFairness is at the heart of this bill. We had a group of New Zealand citizens who had their citizenship recognised and then had that citizenship removed by statute. That is unfair\u2014plain and simple. States should not be able to remove citizenship wholesale like that. It is unjust. This bill will address this injustice in two ways. It will repeal the Citizenship (Western Samoa) Act, remove it from the statute book; and the people who lost citizenship in 1982 will be entitled to apply for and receive citizenship by a grant under the Citizenship Act 1977. This is important. The bill does not confer citizenship directly, but it instead creates automatic eligibility to apply for and receive citizenship. It would not create new rights to citizenship for descendants of those whose citizenship was removed. As I said earlier, the youngest of these elders is now 75. That is why it is important that now is the time for us to address these issues while they are still here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EOur international standing derives from our ability to influence the Pacific. Relational diplomacy is so important, particularly in the Pacific where we have geopolitical tensions playing out between bigger nations. This is something that we can do and do well. The wellbeing of our people, economy, and environment are closely linked to that of our Pacific neighbours. It is our responsibility to continue striving to improve and maintain these relationships. That relationship is always worth strengthening. Supporting Samoan elders signals to the Pacific that we take those relationships seriously. That is why this House should send this bill to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThere has been speculation in the media that this will cause mass migration. That is not my intention. Citizenship broadly happens in three ways: by birth, descent, or by grant. This is citizenship by grant. Can we have a discussion on what the grant could look like that is practical and workable? I think we can\u2014solutions that could suit different perspectives of members across the House. We can, but only if we send this bill to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe Pacific is one ocean but it has many waves. Each island represents a distinct wave in the vast ocean. They are all part of the same body of water. It speaks to the shared heritage, struggles, and aspirations of Pacific peoples, emphasising the unity and the interconnectedness that transcends geographical boundaries. This highlights the significance of recognising and honouring the collective experiences and histories of Pacific communities, acknowledging the common challenges that we have faced and continue to face. Just as waves merge and flow together in the ocean, Pacific peoples come together united by our shared ancestry and cultural ties to navigate the currents of history and shape our collective identity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI started with the words of Fa\u02BBan\u0101n\u0101 Efeso Collins, and I want to conclude with some of those words from his maiden speech. In his maiden speech, he talked about a saying in Samoan, and it goes: \u201CE le tu fa\u2019amauga se tagata\u2014No one stands alone, no one succeeds alone\u2014and, for [him], no one suffers alone.\u201D I want to add a little bit to that: that we succeed best when we succeed together. So I ask for this House to send this bill to the select committee. Madam Speaker, fa\u2018afetai tele lava. Meitaki ranuinui. Thank you to the community for coming out today. Hopefully, your presence here in this House will inspire parties to vote for this bill in this first reading and to send it to the select committee. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1ce9964e3864b17be2da493e3144d3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1ce9964e3864b17be2da493e3144d3f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a89aaff8a6144e5a9464f5e4172185af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a89aaff8a6144e5a9464f5e4172185af\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava. We in the National Party are opposing this Restoring Citizenship Removed By Citizenship (Western Samoa) Act 1982 Bill, and I just want to take you through some of our thinking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge my long-time friend and former colleague and boss Arthur Anae in the Speaker\u2019s gallery, and I reinforce what the previous speaker, Teanau Tuiono, was saying as far as the work and the advocacy that he has done\u2014as have many, over many years\u2014when he was a National MP from 1996 to 2002, and ongoingly. Only a couple of weeks ago, he was getting around the halls of Parliament, lobbying for progression on this issue. So I want to acknowledge Arthur for his long-time fight and, of course, the many other Pasifika MPs. We have the Pacific select committee room, and we know how well represented the wider community, Samoan New Zealanders, have been over many years now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge and pick up from the sponsor our late friend and colleague Efeso Collins, and I think it\u2019s somewhat fitting today that the Business Committee came out and announced that there will be a parliamentary acknowledgment of Efeso, after question time, at 3 o\u2019clock on Tuesday, 30 April. I\u2019m pleased his former leader James Shaw will be here, before his valedictory the next day or two after that, to pay tribute to Efeso. So, given the audience for this piece of legislation, I thought it was important to put out a public service announcement: 3 o\u2019clock, Tuesday, 30 April for a tribute to Efeso.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EOur main point on this piece of legislation is that it presents itself in a member\u2019s bill situation, where we don\u2019t think it\u2019s the right format or forum. We believe that this has been well canvassed and well argued over many years\u2014one could argue 42 years, since 1982. If we look back since 1982 and that Muldoon administration, that National Government, we\u2019ve had three Labour Governments since\u2014the fourth, the fifth, and the sixth\u2014we\u2019ve had 10 Prime Ministers, we\u2019ve had an array of wonderful representation from our Pasifika community and from our Samoan community, and we\u2019ve had an apology from a previous Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, on the Dawn Raids, in 2021. Again, that was an issue going back to the 1970s, and, of course, the National Party supported that apology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo where there is a will to change things, from a Government perspective\u2014and we\u2019ve had 10 Prime Ministers, and two National Governments and three Labour Governments since then\u2014there has been the ability to make a statement and to do things. As we saw with the apology for the Dawn Raids, the Labour Government stepped up there, and also the sponsoring member, Teanau Tuiono, talked about Helen Clark\u2019s apology in 2002. So\u00A0previous Governments have had the will and done the thing. But our point is that the Governments of the past, of many stripes, of many different colours\u2014red, blue, green, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, others\u2014have not taken this up, and we would argue it\u2019s because legally the arguments have been exhausted over a 42-year period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EWe are concerned that it creates a legal precedent. Legal experts will say to you that retroactively\u2014retroactively\u2014interesting word\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe166fb49b074eea88e1c3bd9d49c2bf\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Retrospectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bb33ebb17de4bc7963d4a55103e87b3\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014no, \u201Cretroactively\u201D is the legal terminology\u2014reinstating the citizenship of citizens affected by this Act sets a problematic precedent, and we want to ensure, as have previous administrations, led by 10 previous Prime Ministers over four decades, that we have a legal framework in place that equates to fairness and equity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo our concern is that it does create a number of unprecedented measures, and it also creates a situation where we have got a focus at the moment on managing the immigration settings and adopting them accordingly to fit today\u2019s demands, and 173,000 non - New Zealand citizens migrated here in 2023. You would have seen our immigration Minister, Erica Stanford, unveil a range of changes to the likes of the Accredited Employer Work Visa scheme, and also, at the weekend, she put in a number of measures that will address migrant worker exploitation. So we have got huge challenges and huge workloads ahead of us and a number of legal precedents that we believe that previous administrations\u2014three Labour Governments, two National Governments\u2014have looked at it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e46c1d8fabe54c0c9c5742c2d3672a7b\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re in charge now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228e1883d5d134e57b5300dc6ef3cae20\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and have not proceeded on goodwill, and some of those people and some of those Governments have been led by constitutional experts like Sir Geoffrey Palmer. This is an exhaustive piece of work that\u2019s looked at it, and successive Governments have\u2014unfortunately for the other side of the House; unfortunately for their argument\u2014not proceeded on a number of firm grounds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EWe, as a Government, understand and continue to foster the strong relationships with Pasifika and Pacific nations. I want to acknowledge the great work that the very busy health Minister, Shane Reti, is doing as also Minister for Pacific Peoples, and if the bill progresses, it does and it will have implications on current citizenship settings. So we have given this\u2014previous parliaments\u2014considerable, considerable time, energy, and argument over four decades, and we believe, on balance, that for this to go to select committee at this stage, in a member\u2019s bill format and forum, is not appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe members opposite say, \u201COh well, you\u2019re in charge now.\u201D Well, can I just remind them that they were in charge, with the biggest majority in MMP history, six months ago. They were in charge, with a single-party majority, just six months ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EEveryone has looked at this. Successive Prime Ministers have looked at this. Successive Governments have looked at this. We on this side of the House have also looked closely at it. We have also been talking to friends like our friend Arthur Anae. We have also been lobbied hard. We have also taken legal advice. But, on the balance of it, National will oppose this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4509595ac144295a07cde9dcff9b0a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4509595ac144295a07cde9dcff9b0a6\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava, Madam Speaker, and talofa lava to the House. To all of our Samoan community who have come along today to support this bill, can I acknowledge you. Many of the people that are here today are not just here to support the kaupapa of today; they were here in 2003 outside Parliament. They were one or many of the 90,000 people that signed the petition at the time and have been fighting for this change for decades. Can I acknowledge the Green Party member Teanau Tuiono, one of only six Pacific members of Parliament at the moment. Can I just say on record that the other side who are in the Labour Party stand behind Teanau Tuiono with respect to this bill that he is attempting to pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to start with the Dawn Raids apology. The Dawn Raids apology was a formal acknowledgement of the discriminatory implementation of immigration laws that led to the Dawn Raids. However, beyond the Dawn Raids, the Muldoon-led National Government continued on their trajectory with the 1982 retrospective removal of the right to citizenship for those Samoans born between 1924 to 1948. So I do find it very interesting that the member Cameron Brewer says that he doesn\u2019t want to retroactively reinstate citizenship for Samoans when it was retrospectively taken away from them. The removal of citizenship rights for any country is contentious. In fact, New Zealand has been at the forefront in some incidences of criticising other countries internationally for this. Sadly, the New Zealand Government did exactly this themselves in 1982, and this continues to be something that is deemed controversial\u2014and rightly so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe actions that followed the Dawn Raid apology were not exhaustive. As part of the apology, we provided educational scholarships, access to the Manaaki New Zealand Short Term Scholarship training courses, support for Pacific artists and historians to develop a comprehensive written and oral account of the Dawn Raids, but no one at that time implied that the work required by New Zealand Governments to demonstrate a genuine understanding of the discrimination and trauma the Pacific community had endured was complete.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EThe apology provided a platform for remorse, remembrance, and reflection of that dark time that should, and could, inform ongoing future policy decisions. What we have before us is another opportunity to honour the spirit of the Dawn Raids apology, and we truly hope that other political parties in this House will see this. I\u2019m not going to pretend that this is where it ends. It would be remiss of me not to mention the policy Labour took into the last election where we would have provided the opportunity for some that were here illegally to regularise their immigration status. This work has not been forgotten by the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003ETurning my mind back to the bill in front of us, Teanau Tuiono has stated clearly we are talking about 3,000 to 5,000 people, not all of whom would want to take the opportunity up. It is the right thing to do, at least to allow the bill to go to select committee. Off the back of the significant contributions Samoans have made to Aotearoa, it is the right thing to do; on behalf of the nearly 200,000 Samoans who have made New Zealand their home, it is the right thing to do; in the spirit of the 1962 Treaty of Friendship between Samoa, where we pledged the two countries would be governed by a spirit of close friendship, it is the right thing to do; and with the acknowledgement of the discriminatory immigration policy our Samoan community endured before and during the period that this legislation was passed, it is the right thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003EI want to implore all political parties to at least support this to select committee. There is no precedent being set when it is only being considered at select committee. That is where we get to consider the advice, the submissions from the community, and to hear from the legal experts. We don\u2019t need to hear from the people who think they are legal experts in the House today. [Applause]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccef665a73114107985a2fbf9185ef80\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Order! Order!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b418fd665d4425fbd91c83005b351eb\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Labour is represented by our Samoan community. Labour is here to support the Samoan community. We stand by our Green Party brother in supporting this bill today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022a939cae12ec443fba635a77df67d6f1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a939cae12ec443fba635a77df67d6f1a\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for this opportunity. I would like to start by congratulating the member Teanau Tuiono for his member\u2019s bill being drawn from the ballot. I know it\u2019s quite exciting to have a member\u2019s bill drawn but it also brings a bit of nervousness until you know which way different parties are going to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo this bill is the Restoring Citizenship Removed By Citizenship (Western Samoa) Act 1982 Bill. So, basically, this bill is to repeal that 1982 Act, and I want to just ease that member\u2019s nervousness by saying that the ACT Party has decided to support this bill to select committee. Yes, I know, some members are looking quite surprised, but this is what the ACT Party stands for: we believe in equality; we believe in fairness. So we want to really assess this bill on the basis of these two things, equality and fairness, and I think we will get this opportunity to do that in the select committee process because we would like to hear from submitters\u2014what submitters have to say on this bill. We would also like to see what advisers have to say on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EBut I also want to point out this: while I acknowledge the community leaders from the Samoan community here in the gallery\u2014thank you so much for taking the time out to be here today\u2014in the select committee process, we expect that the Samoan community leaders and Samoan community members will support this bill. I\u2019m assuming all of them will support this bill. But it will be important for us to hear from other people as well, overall, like from New Zealand, to see what they think about this bill. And our support is at this stage only for the first reading. So we will decide how we will vote on this bill after we get the opportunity to see what the select committee process looks like and what submitters have said and what advisers have said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the member for reaching out to me and some of my caucus colleagues as well, advocating for his bill. So thank you for that. Clearly this bill is\u2014overall, when it\u2019s looked at\u2014something that is to look at a historic matter. And when we look at that historic matter\u2014this is my view\u2014which, obviously, we want to explore in the select committee process, at the time, the citizenship of those people was revoked because those people acquired Samoan citizenship. And they acquired Samoan citizenship because Samoa became\u2014at that time, it was Western Samoa\u2014independent in 1962. So it was considered that people\u2014those who acquired Samoan citizenship\u2014chose their allegiance to Samoa over New Zealand and that was the reason why their New Zealand citizenship was revoked in that 1982 Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s very important for us to note this. I would also like to bring to everybody\u2019s attention that our view is by passing that legislation, what New Zealand did was perfectly fine within the legal framework of that time. So New Zealand was within its rights to do what it did at that time. And referring to the member\u2019s letter that was attached to the email that came from a member, the member has listed various reasons why this bill should be supported. One of the reasons that is listed in the letter, which I want to talk about, is the member says that this bill will address the racist origins of the Act. We want to say that we do not see that that 1982 Act was about being racist, because if it was about being racist then we know that even in 1982 there were people from so many different parts of the world; the citizenships of all those people would have been revoked if it was based on race. But the basis was because Samoa became independent and people decided to acquire Samoan citizenship, and because they had acquired Samoan citizenship their New Zealand citizenship was revoked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo this is really important to note. But as we have said, we want to go with a very open mind to the select committee process and see what submitters have to say. And as I also said, it\u2019s not just about one community, what they are saying, but we would like to hear from the wider community\u2014the whole of New Zealand\u2014and also advisers to see where this bill sits for going forward. And with that, Madam Speaker, I would say that we are supporting this bill in the first reading. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022c65717018ea84c229ebb499cf4b63424\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c65717018ea84c229ebb499cf4b63424\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I would first like to acknowledge Teanau Tuiono for bringing this bill to the House. I think it\u2019s an important piece of work, the Restoring Citizenship Removed By Citizenship (Western Samoa) Act 1982 Bill. I would also acknowledge\u2014and I think it must be with great sadness\u2014that this bill is being brought to the House without Efeso Collins being here to share it with you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is here to listen to the Pacific community, our leader\u2014and excuse me for my pronunciation\u2014Vaovasamanaia Winston Peters, has advocated through initiatives such as the Pacific Reset, and continues to advocate for our Pacific communities. We support our Pacific neighbours and the communities that make up our country. That is why New Zealand First will be supporting this bill to select committee. It is the select committee process that will give us an opportunity to consider and make amendments that are necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThe bill is attempting to restore citizenship to those in Western Samoa that lost it when the Citizenship (Western Samoa) Act 1982 was passed. We acknowledge that, yes, for over 40 years, the effect of this bill has been reviewed and considered and reflected upon. It will mean that approximately 5,000 people who lost citizenship in 1982 will be able to apply for and receive citizenship by grant. We acknowledge this doesn\u2019t confer citizenship directly but creates automatic eligibility to apply for and receive citizenship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EWe know there\u2019s been numerous attempts to repeal this Act, and I acknowledge the petition in 2003, and, again, the former MP Arthur Anae for his work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003ENow this member\u2019s bill is before the House, we think it is an important consideration. I myself enjoy wonderful wh\u0101nau members, who are in New Zealand, from the Samoan community. I\u2019ve lived and worked most of my life in South Auckland and we are enriched and blessed by the contribution the Samoan community makes to our schools, to our communities, to our collective organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI would like to see robust conversations. There will, of course, be considerations we have to reflect on. We have to understand the impacts, and, of course, being a Government, we have to consider the financial implications. We know that will be a process, and that process should take place in select committee where we can hear fairly, calmly, and rationally from those who are affected. We will not lose; I think we will gain from the opportunity of this conversation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI think it is really important to reflect that we have all been blessed. I have worked with wonderful men and women who have come from Samoa, some of whom have saved my life on a couple of occasions, so I acknowledge that completely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EWhen, I think, many of us gave our maiden speeches in this House, we talked about the opportunities to work in a bipartisan way, to work across the House to find our common ground, to talk about what brings us together rather than divides us. I think this is an opportunity to demonstrate how we can do that. I look forward to the opportunity, and New Zealand First look forward to the opportunity, of having these discussions and really analysing what we are going to achieve here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EThe fact that this matter has been sitting around for 40 years should not be something that we\u2019re afraid of. It should be the reason that we actually take the initiative to sit down. So, again, I commend the member for bringing this to the House. I acknowledge the sadness that must exist because Efeso\u2019s not here to join in this, but I take pleasure in supporting this bill to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u002217b0df9b13fc444382ec41ed73f28927\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217b0df9b13fc444382ec41ed73f28927\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI ():\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. I te tuatahi me mihi atu. Kua tae mai t\u014D t\u0101tou r\u014Dp\u016B t\u0101ngata mana. T\u0101tau katoa nau mai ki t\u0113nei Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tau. Me te mea an\u014D hoki me mihi ki te Speaker mai i te Samoan Parliament. Ka nui te mihi ki a koe, e te p\u0101p\u0101 Aupito William Sio. T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 hoki koe. Me te mihi ki a koe mai i te K\u012Bngi. Ko koe t\u0113n\u0101 ka noho tata ki waenganui i Te Tekau M\u0101 Rua\u2014ka nui te mihi ki a koe. Ko koe t\u0113r\u0101 te tangata ka pupuri i te ahi i Rangiriri. Ka nui te mihi, ka nui te mihi, ka nui te mihi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E[First, I must acknowledge the esteemed group who has come today and all of us who have come to this House. I acknowledge us all. I must also acknowledge the Speaker of the Samoan Parliament. My acknowledgments to you, sir. Thank you. And I acknowledge you, sir, Aupito William Sio and extend the King\u2019s acknowledgments to you. You sit closely amongst the Tekau M\u0101 Rua\u2014I acknowledge you. You held the fire at Rangiriri. I acknowledge you greatly.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI stand to acknowledge and be grateful and to fully support this idea and this discussion today, and without it I think we would not be doing our job as Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe whakapapa of this bill takes us back in time to an era not so long ago, in the time of the Polynesian Panthers, of the Dawn Raids, and, you know, the picture that comes to mind right now is Hone Harawira, and many of those of our wh\u0101nau n\u014D Te Tai Tokerau, he M\u0101ori katoa ka tautoko i \u0113nei wh\u0101nau [family from Northland, they are all M\u0101ori who support these families]; and the time where M\u0101ori and Pasifika joined together to fight back against the relentless infringement of our rights as Pasifika and M\u0101ori that a Muldoon or National Government\u2014not too dissimilar to our current one\u2014inflicted upon us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThis era saw the rise of Pacific activism, which responded to openly racist treatment. It was 1976 when Dawn Raids began targeting Pacific households accused of harbouring overstayers, despite it being those of European ethnicity who made up two-thirds of all overstayers in New Zealand at the time. Events such as this inspired activism from the Polynesian Panthers and it is important I recognise here not only their commitment to their people but also ours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThey fought alongside us during the 1975 land march, Bastion Point, and for the right to equality during the Springbok Tour. And while the communities most impacted by events of the Dawn Raids have finally received their apology from the Crown\u2014and there\u2019s been a few apologies in the last maybe 24 hours, but I suggest that the Government might have to be prepared for more apologies to come, from that side, I\u00A0mean\u2014there has been little action taken to prove the sincerity of this. The affected community have not yet truly received their fair compensation. The amendments to this bill are the start of that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe bill will restore the right of citizenship to our Samoan community born between 1924 and 1949 that was stripped away with the introduction of the Citizen (Western Samoa) Act of 1982. Amendments to this bill will remedy and illustrate restorative action to the racial discrimination that our Pacific community were most certainly subject to during this time period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EIt is our responsibility to ensure that those unfairly treated by this very institution are both witness to, and recipients of, restorative action. And it is important that whatever this restorative action may be, it is those impacted communities\u2014those impacted communities\u2014who inform us what this action is and that it is not those of us in this House who have never walked a day in their lives that dictate what it is that they think they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo I can stand in support of this bill\u2014and I\u2019m thrilled to and our party are absolutely glad to, and so we should\u2014as presented by our whanaunga Teanau. So ka mihi a Te Aup\u014Duri ki a Te Aup\u014Duri\u2014t\u0113n\u0101 koe. [Te Aup\u014Duri acknowledges Te Aup\u014Duri.] We M\u0101ori can both acknowledge and understand what it is to experience a historical and ongoing mistreatment from this institution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI\u2019m glad we\u2014well, I want us to get to select committee. We should have a select committee on this\u2014if we don\u2019t, we are still saying we know what\u2019s best for you. And that is simply not the truth. It is not that we should describe what it is for others that don\u2019t look like us, sound like us, and feel like us. And I\u2019m saying that as a M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u002211788a83ba184cea9d8d4986612249ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211788a83ba184cea9d8d4986612249ca\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Ou te faatalofa atu ma le faaaloalo. Malo le soifua maua ma le lagi e mam\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EThe 685s to the world! For those members of the House who do not know what 685 means, it is the calling code for Samoa, but it took the 682, the Cook Islands, to bring this bill to the House, I acknowledge. There\u2019s only a couple of times we like losing to the Cook Islanders, but today we\u2019ll give it to you, my brother.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EToday is a historical day because we have seen the Labour Party support the Greens, we have seen Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori support the Greens, we have seen the ACT Party support the Greens\u2014never thought I\u2019d see this day\u2014and I\u2019ve seen New Zealand First support the Greens, support the bill. And that is a historical day because today rights the wrongs of what happened in the 1980s. Now, the unfortunate thing for me is I did not learn about our New Zealand history until I chose to learn it at university, and that is something wrong with our country, that something as remarkable as the stripping of citizenship rights for Samoan people who were born during a period where New Zealand administered them, was their Government, was removed through an Act of this House. There is no point paying homage to the wars that we fought in Samoa, and that plaque above the head of the Speaker, if we do not right the wrongs of the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EAnd what we have seen is through community advocacy, through a simple and very humble woman, Falema\u02BBi Lesa, we have seen what is possible through the power of people. The Samoan people in this country are proud of our roots and of our homeland. We are proud that we are the third most spoken language in this country. We are proud that we are the fastest growing Pacific population in Aotearoa New Zealand. And yet, we have hidden a historical wrong which is finally brought to the House which this Labour Party wholeheartedly supports. And we want to thank those who have paved the path for this. We want to thank our elders, our mafukaga Ministers, Anae Arthur Anae, we want to thank auntie Paula, who keeps sending me emails to make sure that I support this bill, and all our aunties and uncles, when they tell you that you had better support this bill, we better support this bill because the punishment that happens in our community is harder than any punishment that we would ever experience in this House!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003EI also want to pay homage to the Wellington lawyer George Rosenberg who supported Falema\u02BBi Lesa during that court case. He understood the importance of why they had to test that. For me, my father would have fallen within the Samoan citizenship Act because he was born in Samoa in 1945, and there\u2019s a lot of our generation\u2014the generation just above mine\u2014that would have fallen within these particular rules, had they been left in. But what has happened is that was removed and then, like my father and many other fathers and mothers who are here within the House today, they would have had to go through a process when, by right\u2014by birthright\u2014they were born in a time when New Zealand administered their country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003ESo I want to thank the people who have brought this here today. I want to thank the rest of the parties who are supporting this bill. I want to ensure that the generation that comes after me\u2014the generation of our children who, again, are the fastest Pacific population in New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d273c252009c442682a8b5d67660fc9e\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Fastest growing, not fastest!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ad6039e9aff4b80bf8c7a00ff707bf0\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Fastest growing\u2014fastest growing. Well, actually, some of them are quite fast. The fastest-growing population\u2014that they learn this history, not because we\u2019ve had to bring it to the House but because New Zealand is going to teach its history in the schools. So that is the stage that we need to start pushing. But for tonight, we give our alofa and we celebrate what is a milestone of achievement. The 685s to the world, brought to you by the 682, but we take it. Fa\u2018afetai tele lava.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022afa74634166a44e883a77e7be88c4f70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afa74634166a44e883a77e7be88c4f70\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Firstly, I want to acknowledge the contributions that have been given on this debate so far from across the House. The first contribution given\u2014and congratulations to the member for having his bill drawn from the biscuit tin. It is a tough feat to get one drawn, so congratulations and well done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EListening to the debate this evening from across the House has been engaging. It\u2019s been challenging on a personal level. It\u2019s been thought provoking. It\u2019s created an environment where people have felt safe to make their contributions to why they believe they should support or oppose the bill that is in front of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ESo I want to acknowledge, firstly, the bill being drawn and having it here debated today. I also quickly want to acknowledge those in the community that have joined us this evening. For many, first time ever coming to Parliament and experiencing the halls of power in New Zealand, welcome, welcome. We stand here to represent and work on behalf of you. We may not always get things right, we may not always achieve what we want to deliver on, but I want to acknowledge you being here and your presence. Thank you for making that effort to be here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EMy colleague, Cameron Brewer, really outlined our party\u2019s position on this bill in his excellent 10-minute contribution. But I do want to acknowledge what is glaringly obvious, that the bill has the support of the wider House. And so if the bill comes to the Governance and Administration Committee\u2014I\u2019m not sure yet which select committee the member is intending to nominate. If it does come to that select committee though\u2014he\u2019s nodding, he\u2019s telling me yes; good man\u2014then I look forward to the further discussions we\u2019re going to have on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EI look forward to understanding the perspectives that we\u2019re going to be hearing on that select committee and the real-world implications that this bill may be having for people. And I appreciate the opportunity that those people will have at the select committee with the wider support that has been given across this House. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u00225de7d950678140a8b94b9a21f344978c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225de7d950678140a8b94b9a21f344978c\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EAua le kovana e\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EUa e fa\u2019afiti\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EE te le iloaina\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EO se fanata\u2019avili\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EA e molimau tamaiti\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003Ema le afafine o Kilisi\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EO oe lava na e fa\u2019apa e\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003Ele fanata\u2019avili\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u201COh Governor, you have lied. You say you don\u2019t know whose machine gun it was, but the children and the daughter of Kilisi all bear witness that you alone pulled that trigger.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI stand here today, I welcome our Samoan community, in particular our guest Fofoga\u00A0Fetalai and delegation, those who are listening at home and offshore. I began my talanoa, my k\u014Drero, with a song, a song that was written for the time, a historical account of Samoa\u2019s Black Saturday, when Tupua Tamasese Lealofi III was martyred during a peaceful march against New Zealand\u2019s and Great Britain\u2019s rule of Samoa. That particular incident: there was a horrific shooting by New Zealand military police of the Mau independence demonstrators in Apia, Samoa. That particular day, 11 Samoans died, including the independent leader, Paramount Chief Tupua Tamasese Lealofi III, on Saturday, 28 December 1929. For the record, the Paramount Chief Tupua Tamasese Lealofi III was the great-grandfather of our former colleague Anae Neru Leavasa, former Labour MP for Takanini.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, on the walls of this House are 12 carved, circular rimu memorial wreaths around the balcony, and just above your head bears the name of significant engagement involving New Zealand troops in World War I. It\u2019s the memorial wreath and ribbon of Samoa\u2019s name engraved in there. Many New Zealanders do not know or do not\u00A0understand that New Zealand administered Samoa for 48 years, from 1914 to 1962. The New Zealand administration was worse than the German administration of Samoa, 1900\u00A0to 1914, and in 2002, the Rt Hon Helen Clark, former Prime Minister of New\u00A0Zealand, gave a formal apology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, you have heard my colleagues traverse today\u2019s bill, and I want to in particular thank Teanau Tuiono, and we remember our brother Fa\u2019an\u0101n\u0101 Efeso Collins because we miss him. Madam Speaker, you\u2019ve heard Carmel Sepuloni, deputy leader for the Labour Party. You\u2019ve heard Barbara Edmonds, finance spokesperson for the Labour Party. We are the daughters of the descendants of Samoa. We support this bill, the Labour Party supports this bill, and I want to thank the other parties for their support, that they support this bill to the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI want to call and challenge the National Government. I want to call on you because you need to reconsider your position for this bill. Our Samoans have been in this country for decades. We are asking for your support that you would hear, through the select committee\u2014Samoans need to have their say. Many Samoans have served this country for many, many decades, and what legacy do we want to leave for our young people, the future of tomorrow?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ESo those are the points that I wanted to raise. As you\u2019ve heard, as you can see, the Samoan community is here in force. You\u2019ve heard Barbara talk about \u201C685 to the world\u201D, because it\u2019s not just them up there; there\u2019s a whole global audience listening to us. Madam Speaker, I really do thank you for the opportunity. I want to acknowledge all of our colleagues that are here from the Labour Party to support this bill through to the next stage. So, Madam Speaker, I finish off those words, and I\u00A0thank you. Fa\u2018afetai tele mo le avanoa manuia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u0022546cd2b7f5a241c0abaa02ccb986465f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022546cd2b7f5a241c0abaa02ccb986465f\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. A really special moment to speak this evening on this bill, and I will just try and keep my time a little shorter so that we can get the final speech in before dinner because I think it\u2019s important that we honour and acknowledge the guests and not have them have to come back. So\u00A0I\u2019m just going to try and condense this, if that\u2019s OK with the House, in respect of our guests here, and, look, I love Samoa. They gave us Tana Umaga and Jerry Collins; how could we not love this country? I had the pleasure of flying Jerry Collins in the back of my helicopter once and I can tell you he had the loudest and highest pitched scream I\u2019ve heard in my life. But it was a real honour because they were two guys that I really looked up to in their heyday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EAnd I do want to acknowledge, you know, that it can be at times difficult to engage in a debate without getting too emotive and losing focus. You know, we talk about\u2014and the member opposite mentioned\u2014the wreath acknowledging Samoa. And on the one hand, I acknowledge that this was about opposing colonial rule and not wanting to put one country and their occupation and their rights of citizenship\u2014but also the responsibilities that came with it\u2014above another country. And yet, it was also done when New Zealand went in, in 1914, as was just mentioned\u2014it was done without firing a shot; it was completely peaceful. And isn\u2019t it appropriate that we can have this discussion and, as it no doubt moves through to select committee and wherever it may go from there, that we can bring different perspectives, that we can have these conversations, but we don\u2019t have to be firing shots at each other. It\u2019s actually OK to tease out some of these ideas and to use the parliamentary processes we have to work through this and to talk about these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EI note that what this bill does is restore citizenship not to those in more recent times from Samoa, not to those who were living in New Zealand\u2014because they always had it, and even in 1982 their citizenship was, of course, protected if they were living in New Zealand. But the specific date period is nothing actually to do with New Zealand\u2019s colonial trusteeship, as it was known at the time of Samoa, but it\u2019s actually around being a British subject; it\u2019s not about New Zealand. And so I think we do need to think through this thing. We\u2019re giving New Zealand citizenship in response to British citizenship. So it\u2019s actually not quite as simple as maybe some of the emotive arguments bring out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EI do think it\u2019s important that we consider exactly why it is, without just getting into the kind of Russian doll of \u201Cthe Privy Council said this, but then that Government said this and now we\u2019re going back to the other one.\u201D So I think there are some complex issues to go through if we want to genuinely look at these issues. Are we looking at the colonial rules, are we looking at the old citizenship, or are we looking at what is best for New Zealand, which is ultimately what this House has the responsibility for doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ESo, with that, and in view of the time, I\u2019ll end my contribution here. I do again just\u00A0want to acknowledge all those that have spoken before and those that have come to tautoko\u2014support\u2014this bill tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022349a8d74d5814b33a41ab9feb7e78af8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022349a8d74d5814b33a41ab9feb7e78af8\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Fa\u2018afetai tele lava to all the members of the House who have engaged with the debate today. Also, I want to once again say thank you to all the community members for coming to Parliament, and to emphasise that this Parliament is your Parliament\u2014this is your place, this is the people\u2019s place, as well. And, once again, to recognise, acknowledge the Speaker of the House of the Samoan Parliament and the Samoan members of Parliament that are here with us today, and people from the High Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThank you to those members that understood the intent of the bill. Fairness is at the heart of the bill. It\u2019s very simple: we had a group of New Zealand citizens who had their citizenship recognised, and then they had their citizenship removed by statute. It\u2019s just unfair, plain and simple. States should not be able to remove citizenship wholesale like this. It is just not the right thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI just wanted to address some of the comments from the National Party. I hope that when this comes to the select committee, they will engage with it in an open mind\u2014that\u00A0they will engage with this topic in a way that the community needs those stories to be heard. As they were speaking, I was actually reflecting on the powerful debate that we had when the Dawn Raids apology was moving through this House. I reflect on the words of the then National Party leader Judith Collins, where she actually talked about this bill. One of the points that she said, and that I agreed with, is perhaps it would have been better if the National Party and the Labour Party both did the ifoga, because during that time period the Dawn Raids happened through both Governments as well. So it is in that spirit I invite the National Party to engage in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI do also want to emphasise that this is automatic eligibility for a citizenship by grant, which we could and we should talk about. What are the parameters of what that grant could look like? Because I do take that point and acknowledge that point that has been shared by members and also within the media as well: we don\u2019t want to be enabling mass migration. This is a call for the Samoan Government. It is something that should be done bilaterally, between Governments. But what we can do is provide a pathway for citizenship for those elders who had their citizenship taken away from them unjustly and acknowledge that some of them are here tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the comments from my relatives in the Labour Party\u2014I was going to say \u201CSamoan party\u201D; maybe I can tonight, right?\u2014and thank them for their comments. I was reflecting on the history that Lemauga shared, about history that New Zealand should know about\u2014because it is not just Samoan history; it is our history. If we really learn about that history, we can get this relationship right, we can get this relationship well, because that is what we need as a region. We need to understand the history. It is a painful history, but it is something that we must unravel. It is something that we must deal with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThere are things that we do well and I think we should continue to do well, and that is that relationship diplomacy. There are tensions here, political tensions in the Pacific, and we can navigate that well when we do relationship diplomacy. This bill is relationship diplomacy. If we treat the elders of Samoa with respect and dignity, and offer a pathway of citizenship back here to Aotearoa New Zealand, that is good for Aotearoa and good for Samoa and, ultimately, good for our region. Fa\u2018afetai tele lava. Meitaki ranuinui\u2014682 to 685. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226944888795fb4bb2b688a31fafb9c687\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Restoring Citizenship Removed By Citizenship (Western Samoa) Act 1982 Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000578\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002270396163053246c2971d4fd32ea4e16b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270396163053246c2971d4fd32ea4e16b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Restoring Citizenship Removed by Citizenship (Western Samoa) Act 1982 Bill be considered by the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002288e6f34348b046ebaaa5f8b5fd079340\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000580\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u002298af73b6e9bf45579464a48ae801a3e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298af73b6e9bf45579464a48ae801a3e6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is suspended until 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.03 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002224ed65fa62f2449cb894055c40d53350\u0022\u003EChild Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3fd22bcdda64b8e92e93ae08efaeefb\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221f83ce31dd1b431487a28213a224e2a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f83ce31dd1b431487a28213a224e2a9\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to address this in three parts. Firstly, I\u2019d just like to talk about sex offending and child sex offending, and my experience and what led me to bring this bill to the House. Secondly, I\u2019d just like to talk about the bill itself, what the bill does, and the good work done by the Justice Committee to get it to this stage. And, thirdly, I\u2019d just like to explain how I believe the bill can work to ensure that it does what it\u2019s meant to do and make our victims much safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWhen we think of child sex offenders, often thoughts go to the stranger in the park or the chap in the blue campervan trying to pick up children near schools, but they are a relatively rare type of sex offender, particularly these days. The real sex offenders, the real danger, lies much closer to home. The vast majority of sex offenders know their victim, the victim knows them, and certainly, more ominously, the offender often knows the family and the caregivers of the family. That\u2019s where we need to direct our protection, direct our laws, to prevent further offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIn my years as a detective, I interviewed many of these people, and I found them not to be the well-organised criminals that they often are painted to be. They\u2019re often quite pathetic individuals. Often they\u2019ve been abused themselves. Often they\u2019re quite inadequate and struggle to exist within mainstream society. And, for various reasons, they predate and victimise those most vulnerable in our society: our children, the very people we really need to protect from them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENow, the law is pretty well established in this area. There are plenty of offences on the statute book to deal with them, and when they are located, they will go to prison, often for a very long time. Sadly, the way these things come to light, often because of the trust situation involved, it can be some time between the offending and the disclosure. My own experience was often, when an offender was located, they had been suspected before and may have been moved to another family, moved to another situation, and often the disclosure would come. It was often through the schools, often to a school friend, and the schools would bring the information to the authorities, either then social welfare or one of the agencies or police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESadly, in my early days, if it came to police, police would deal with it as a criminal justice issue. Often the other agencies would deal with it as a protection issue. And I have to say that it\u2019s only in recent years that the way of dealing with victims and offenders has improved considerably, and I think people generally are much safer\u2014our way of ascertaining, of identifying these individuals, the warning signs going off. I think we\u2019re much more professional and better at that. However, we still need to ensure that we have the means and the protection to deal with it, and that\u2019s where this legislation comes in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIn 2016, the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) Act was passed. There\u2019s been a couple of amendments since, but, essentially, the purpose of the Act was to establish a child sex offender register to reduce sexual reoffending against children and provide the Government agencies the information they need to protect our most vulnerable. A registrable offender is a person who has been convicted of a qualifying offence and has been sentenced to imprisonment or has been sentenced to a non-custodial sentence and has been made subject to a registration order. A person is not a registrable offender if, at the time they committed the offence, they were under 18. The qualifying offences are class 1, class 2, and class 3 offences as defined in the Crimes Act and cover a full range of offending where the victim is under 16.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EOf note and pertinent to this bill, a corresponding registrable offender is a person who, as a consequence of a conviction in a foreign jurisdiction for a corresponding offence, has been sentenced to imprisonment or, essentially, would be still eligible for an equivalent child sex offender register in that jurisdiction. It\u2019s important in relation to this bill, as it acknowledges the need for protections to exist beyond countries\u2019 borders. The register imposes on offenders reporting obligations on a number of pieces of information, particularly around their addresses\u2014importantly, the name, sex, and date of birth of each child who generally resides in the same household as that in which the offender resides, laid out in the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAn important part of the Act\u2014and, again, touching on my amendment\u2014is that the registered offender, if intending to be away from their registered residential address within New Zealand, and 48 hours before they travel, must provide to police the details of each address at which that offender intends to stay, the dates the offender intends to stay at those addresses, whether any child will be or is likely to reside together with the offender at any of those addresses, and the date the offender intends to return to their registered address. They can leave New Zealand, under the existing Act, provided they provide their dates of travel and the date they intend to return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHowever, unlike such travel within New Zealand, the registered offender is currently not obliged to supply police with their intended addresses in the country they will visit or whether there will be children at the address. My bill as it\u2019s reported back requires offenders to advise the police of the names of the countries they will stay in for more than 48 hours, the addresses they intend to stay in in that country, the date they intend to travel to and leave that country, and, if they do not intend to return to New Zealand, provide the details of the country they intend to reside in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI want to thank the very hard-working Justice Committee of both this and the last Parliament, led by James Meager and Vanushi Walters respectively. While it was a relatively small bill, it wasn\u2019t an easy one. The Attorney-General was concerned about section 7 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. Those same concerns existed when the original bill and the subsequent amendments went through, and they were considered by the committee. I\u2019m sure there\u2019ll be committee members later on who will talk about that. To their credit, they have decided that the same reasons that were used in the main legislation and subsequent amendments still exist today. And, while there were concerns in that area, the risk to the potential victims outweighs the rights of the offender or the freedoms of the offender.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EA second part of the concerns dealt with by the committee were police concerns about the ability to actually monitor the bill when these offenders are overseas without any reciprocal amendments or legislation. I can say that most of the Australian states have similar legislation. The Canadians have just passed some very similar legislation, and they too, without reciprocal arrangements, rely on, as the New Zealand Police can, Interpol. They can rely on the fact that most police forces have a good network of liaison officers working out of embassies in most countries and develop the sorts of relationships necessary to have the offenders checked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut an important part also is that this actually, while giving protection to potential victims and victims, gives protection to offenders. Offenders don\u2019t do good jail time, and most don\u2019t want to go back. They\u2019ve got a very low recidivism rate\u2014again, as I talked about before\u2014because they do the programmes and also they don\u2019t want to go back. Often, by the time they\u2019re found, also they are older in life and the risks of offending have reduced. So the offenders, by knowing the authorities know where they\u2019re going to be, have been known to talk about how that was a protection that they themselves enjoyed having.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI could speak for much longer, and I\u2019m sure others will, but this bill and my\u00A0amendment is about ensuring that for those victims, potential victims\u2014say, in New Zealand, in places like Napier or Oamaru\u2014we\u2019re offering them, often family members, those known to the offender, the same protection in places like Mooloolaba, in places like Perth, because that\u2019s where the real risk lies. And so I commend this bill\u00A0to the House, and I look forward to it going through to the committee of the whole\u00A0House. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdbaec85224945ca9063416c3d7ec497\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdbaec85224945ca9063416c3d7ec497\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Can I begin my contribution tonight just by acknowledging the member responsible for the bill, Greg O\u2019Connor. We had quite a bit to do with Greg throughout the passage of the bill in the last four to five months, and it was a pleasure having him join us at the Justice Committee\u2014the very busy and hard-working Justice Committee, I might say. It\u2019s a real pleasure to see one of our many, many bills that we\u2019re considering at the moment pass through the select committee stage and be presented here to the House to finally debate it\u2014one off our list, and there are about 12 or 13 more to go. So we\u2019ll be working our way through those over the next week while, but it was a real pleasure to have Mr O\u2019Connor with us, not just for his latent cricketing ability but also for the fact that he comes to this bill with many, many years of what you might now call lived experience in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe fact is that the member for \u014Ch\u0101riu has been operating in this area in the past previously and knows what it\u2019s like to deal with the individuals subjected to this legislation. He knows that the purpose of this bill ultimately is one thing, and the member discussed it very well. The purpose of it is that it\u2019s all about protecting children. That is the single purpose of this bill and it was outlined relatively well by the member that while it is a small bill, it does make some significant changes, and there are some section 7 New Zealand Bill of Rights implications that the committee grappled with, which I\u2019ll touch on in my contribution. But I just wanted to acknowledge the way that Mr O\u2019Connor engaged with the committee, provided his input into the bill, and provided his actual experience and recommendations as to why some of the concerns about officials may not be justified. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EOne of those that, I think, was raised well during the committee process was this question of enforceability, and this idea that we could pass these laws and we could require registered sex offenders to provide this information, but there was no way of enforcing it once they were offshore and we would have to have international enforcement agreements. If I recall correctly, it turned out during the committee process that the same issue of enforceability may well exist on our own shores in that registered sex offenders onshore in New Zealand are also required to provide similar information, but the ability of law enforcement here to follow that up and to check on that may well in itself be enforced. So we felt, as a committee, that any issues around enforceability could be addressed and could be solved through operational processes and that that should not get in the way of supporting a bill like that through the committee and into the House today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ECan I acknowledge the work of the Justice Committee and\u2014with your indulgence, Mr Chair\u2014try and take our processes through as to how we came to the conclusion of supporting the bill unanimously through to the House today. As this is one of our first contributions on the second reading, my understanding is that we are to discuss what happened in the committee: the bill as presented, the changes\u2014significant changes\u2014we made, the submissions we received, and anything that we wanted to bring to the attention of the House. So can I acknowledge the work of the Justice Committee members\u2014Labour, the Greens, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, National, ACT, and New Zealand First colleagues\u2014for their contributions and for raising very serious and real issues and trying to work through them in a detailed and methodical way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ECan I also acknowledge Minister Erica Stanford, whose Supplementary Order Paper (SOP)\u2014well, it was a Supplementary Order Paper at the time; I believe that now we have amended them to be called Amendment Papers themselves\u2014was put forward to the committee and was actually adopted without any real contest. That SOP, or Amendment Paper, aimed to ensure that individuals listed on the register were subject to Customs Service border alerts, which was a small hole that the previous member but now Minister identified and put forward to the committee, and we were very glad to be able to work that into the process too. Can I just also acknowledge the work of the officials and our clerk, Liam, who, essentially, held our hands as new committee members through this process over the first wee while. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo, as I said, this bill is about protecting children. It is a very simple, straightforward bill. It requires registered child sex offenders to provide additional information when they are travelling overseas for more than 48 hours, and it actually struck me as quite interesting that we didn\u2019t require this already. I would have assumed that we would have had some sort of system where those individuals that we see as posing a significant risk to the community post-incarceration would be subject to these kinds of restrictions and requirements to report their whereabouts, their intentions for travel, and where they were going to go. I think it surprised many on the committee to realise that this wasn\u2019t in place already, and the member has done a very good job in identifying that hole in the law and seeking to remedy it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned before, there were some concerns raised by the Attorney-General at the time, the Hon David Parker\u2014who I acknowledge has been in the Chamber today\u2014and I will go through the issues because I think they are important to raise. I think it\u2019s also important for me to try and explain why I think we get through this issue of\u2014and it may be just that we disagree on whether or not the restrictions are an unjustified limitation on those individuals\u2019 rights. But I have a view on this, which is that this legislation has been before the House in 2015, again in 2017, in 2021 with amendments, and now, in 2024, it is, hopefully, passing through the House with support, and at some point we must recognise that what does qualify\u2014putting the Hansen test aside\u2014as being demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society should at some point be able to be endorsed by the Parliament itself. It should not be up to a technical test on a breakdown of Oakes and Hansen on the minimal impairment and proportionality and rational connection, but at some point, Parliament should be able to decide for itself, over multiple iterations of the same types of limitations in legislation, that it, as the holder of parliamentary sovereignty, has deemed it to be worthy of a democratically justified limit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThose limits that were raised by the former Attorney-General and officials were around the right for offenders to benefit from the ability of a lesser penalty where two penalties were available. The second infringement raised was the issue around double jeopardy, in that once you have been convicted and sentenced for a crime and you have served your time and are released into the public, and then Parliament comes along and applies another law which is further seen as a penalty, it could be seen as double jeopardy, and I think the courts have made that case out relatively well. The third one was this issue of retrospectivity and the uncertainty when the bill first came through as to whether or not it would apply to just those offenders being released from the date or who go on to the register from when the bill commenced, or if it was every offender on the child sex offender registry. I think the bill was a little unclear at the start about that, and officials made the very good point that when you are legislating and you are going to imply that it has retrospective effect, that retrospective effect should be made explicit in order to reduce the damage or the infringement on those rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo the select committee report outlines the committee\u2019s views on those three issues fairly clearly. They were ones that we grappled with throughout our committee, and I\u2019m sure, knowing what is ahead of us on our legislative timetable, that it may well be that we return to the well of New Zealand Bill of Rights Act analyses quite a few times in the next years, but that\u2019s the nature of the Justice Committee, I think. When Parliament decides or the House decides to put forward proposals in the justice sector, they are inevitably going to infringe somewhat on people\u2019s liberties and freedoms, and we are going to have to have that balancing test around there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI just want to conclude my initial contribution while in this reading to just very, very quickly go over some of the statistics around our submitters. So, from memory, I don\u2019t think we had any oral submitters. It may have been in the interregnum between the two terms of Parliament, because this bill came before us in the previous Parliament and is\u00A0continuing on now. I understand from the report\u2014I believe that Mr O\u2019Connor made\u00A0an oral submission in the Ministry of Justice\u2019s submission\u2019s support of the Attorney-General\u2019s report, but otherwise there were not that many submitters who expressed a view on the bill. I think there were about 10 written submissions, eight of which were in favour, one, I think, was neutral, and maybe one or two more were opposed. So the bill appears to have at least support from those members of the public institutions that did raise concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge the submission from, I believe, the Law Society, who raised a number of very important points\u2014that was Caroline Silk. This was around the infringement on freedoms, retrospectivity, and consistency with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and, hopefully, we\u2019ve done enough to address some of those concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EFinally, in the last few seconds of my contribution, just to summarise the main changes that were made around the bill, in clause 2, we did extend the commencement date to allow the New Zealand Police time to manage their operational requirements to implement the bill, and we did strengthen some of the information-sharing requirements, or clarified what it was that departments could do\u2014what information Police and the Customs Service could share about child sex offenders when they are leaving the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo I commend the member for bringing the bill to the House. I apologise that he couldn\u2019t quite get his last one across the line. I think he haunts me in the hallways with cries of \u201CJock McKenzie saved the land throughout the country!\u201D, but I\u2019m happy to support this bill today, and I think one from two is not a bad hit rate. So I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00226247b707d04042d48aa38a70e291f3fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226247b707d04042d48aa38a70e291f3fc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00223754fc1ee08c4b72a131bed1fce8848d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223754fc1ee08c4b72a131bed1fce8848d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, it\u2019s a pleasure to rise and speak in support of Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s bill. It is a relatively small adjustment to the existing register and requirement of sex offenders to notify the Police, in some cases, of their movements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI would say, I\u2019ve just been reading\u2014and my friend\u2019s got it there\u2014Amendment Paper 175, which I see the Minister of Immigration has tabled. I note that it looked to allow, essentially, information matching between Police and Customs. I must say, I\u2019d be interested to hear members from the other side speak to this, because we had plenty of opportunity, as the chair has noted, to discuss this at the Justice Committee, including an opportunity for the Minister\u2014it\u2019s in the name of Erica Stanford, the Minister of Immigration\u2014to come to the committee and talk to it. So I\u2019m surprised that it\u2019s popped up at this late notice. After discussions with the member in charge of the bill, I understand that it wasn\u2019t signalled to the member, which is a breach of courtesy, if nothing else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, it may be that this Amendment Paper will not raise any concerns when we get to committee stage, but it would have been good to see this kind of step go through a full and robust process. In particular, information matching does raise privacy concerns, and I\u2019m sure the Privacy Commissioner would have liked to have had some discussions around this Amendment Paper, had in fact it been drawn to the commissioner\u2019s attention, as, of course, would the member in charge. So I do hope that the Minister will actually come down and speak to this Amendment Paper and exactly why it is needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe chair of the Justice Committee was perhaps a little dismissive of the Attorney-General\u2019s report, and I can see why, but I do think we need to take statements from the Attorney-General\u2014after all, she is, she is a King\u2019s Counsel, if you hadn\u2019t been told already. But the fact of the matter is that the Attorney-General points out a couple of things of concern. I guess the one that I think is most concerning, and the thing that in criminal law we need to be most aware of, is retrospectivity\u2014that people have had a punishment meted out in the courts, which was the appropriate punishment under the law at the time, and we then go back and make it even more stringent. So there are people who are currently subject to the restrictions that being a sex offender places on them. Those restrictions are now going to be increased by this notification provision, and that\u2019s going to be done retrospectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIn some ways, I guess, one of the things is whether you see this notification regime as an element of punishment or whether you see it simply as a community safety measure, but certainly it is a constraint on the liberty of the offenders that\u2019s being placed retrospectively. The way I get around that, I guess, is to say, well, it may have that effect, but, certainly, its dominant purpose is to protect potential victims, if you like, and that, in terms of proportionality, the burden on the offender is quite low. Because we\u2019re not refusing the ability to travel, we\u2019re just requiring certain notification provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo with that, really, I wanted to say that I think this is a good bill. It went through the select committee and actually did have a fair bit of working over. And anyone who reads the select committee report will see that there are some substantial changes, including the removal of some clauses, such as clause 4, where an amendment to section 21 was removed, where the kind of detail that perhaps was needed was actually watered down a bit so that you didn\u2019t need to know every element of the person\u2019s travel. Rather, it was simply the date they were to travel in and out of New Zealand and where they\u2019re going to predominantly be residing and when they\u2019re intending to return to New Zealand, and a few other bits and pieces in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut, look, again, I congratulate the member on a useful addition, because we absolutely endorse the need to reduce the number of victims that are out there. But, as the member in charge of the bill, Greg O\u2019Connor, said, it\u2019s also about assisting offenders to not put themselves in situations where risk is created, so it\u2019s actually good for the offender as well. So, once again, congratulations; I commended it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u0022241ae0defbe941a19d478e1160ac852f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022241ae0defbe941a19d478e1160ac852f\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Greens want a world where all children, here and across the world, live safe lives, free from sexual violence and abuse. We know we must strengthen and work to prevent sexual violence from ever happening in the first place. We want to see justice for all survivors of sexual violence and abuse, especially children. People who have sexually violated children must be held accountable for the heartbreaking and enduring harm that they have inflicted. Offenders must be accountable and supported to stop their violent behaviour, and there must be restoration and reparation directly to the survivors and their needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EWe wish to state our position unequivocally, because the research and evidence spells out very clearly where the real levers for protecting our children are. The issue of ending violence against children has been a longstanding priority for the Green Party and will continue to be. Under the country\u2019s first ever Minister for the prevention of violence, Marama Davidson, Marama Davidson was able to pull together the country\u2019s first ever 25-year nationwide strategy to eliminate family violence and sexual violence\u2014eliminate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, and with respect to the member, this bill is not the most effective way forward to protect children from sexual violence and abuse, so the Greens will not be supporting this legislation. At best, this bill will do nothing to improve the safety and lives for children. At worst, the bill will disrupt genuine rehabilitation approaches for offenders to change their harmful behaviour. The Greens cannot in good conscience support any legislation that risks prevention of violence work and does not improve the prospects of survivors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the Child Protection (Child Sexual Offender Government Agency Registration) Act 2016 to \u201Crequire registered child sex offenders to provide additional information to \u2026 Police before travelling overseas\u201D. This information includes addresses of all the places they will stay for more than 48 hours, the number identifying the country of issue of all passports they hold, timely and reasonable explanation of any changes to this information. Currently, child sex offenders are already required to provide this type of information for some travel or changes of location within New Zealand. This bill will remove disparities in reporting requirements between domestic and international travel. The penalties for failure to report will also be comparable: failing to comply with reporting obligations, a fine of up to $2,000 or imprisonment for one year; and providing false or misleading information, a fine of up to $4,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThis bill only applies to known convicted offenders. The aim of the Child Sex Offender Register is to improve child safety by having up-to-date information available on known child sex offenders living in the community that can be used to monitor risk of reoffending. Who\u2019s registered? People who have been convicted of sexual offending against children\u2014specifically, those offenders who have been convicted of a qualifying offence and were aged 18 years or over, and the victim was under 16 years when the offence was committed, and were sentenced to imprisonment or sentenced to a non-custodial sentence and directed to be registered at the discretion of the sentencing judge. So this bill only captures convicted known offenders, which, while important as a capture as it is\u2014we have to be explicit about the confines of this bill and who it relates to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EAt best, registers like this do nothing in and of themselves to reduce offending and, at worst, undermine rehabilitation efforts and safe integration into community. We have that evidence very clearly. This is an example of flawed legislation that will make politicians feel better about themselves and look tough on crime while there is no substance behind this action. This bill is only aimed at revictimisation, and there are far more effective and proven ways to address revictimisation, and some of those are addressed in Te Aorerekura. Te Aorerekura is the all-of-Government, prevention-focused, Tiriti-centred, strength-based, community-led, and whole-of-wh\u0101nau embraced and embedded strategy to eliminate violence over the next couple of generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party remains strongly invested in enduring work to ensure children are safe, not just make politicians feel like they\u2019re doing something. This bill will not resolve the significant harm of children being violated by sexual violence. While this bill offers no substance to safe responses to violence or prevention of violence, it is also regrettable and substandard lawmaking. As legislators, we must uphold a high standard of lawmaking as the cornerstone of a modern and functional democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EIn a second reading, it is appropriate to refer to the select committee report. After the first reading, submissions are heard from the public and interested agencies. It is really important to put on record here that both the Attorney-General and the Ministry of Justice were at pains to highlight that this legislation is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (BORA) and therefore risks a dangerous precedent if we want to be serious lawmakers. The Justice Committee\u2019s own report noted the statement of the Attorney-General that \u201Cthe evidence is limited as to the effectiveness of [sexual] offender registers in improving public safety.\u201D The report quotes that \u201Che\u201D\u2014the Attorney-General\u2014\u201Cconsidered that the intrusion on that right\u201D\u2014to benefit from lesser penalty where penalties charged\u2014\u201Cwas not in due proportion to the importance of the objective of the bill and could not be demonstrably justified.\u201D This is from the Attorney-General.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ENow, we do in this House weigh up public interest and public benefits whenever we have to consider breaching the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, but the Greens have already been clear that this bill does not offer effective solutions to keeping children safe and, even worse, risks disrupting the meaningful work of offenders to stop using harm. Any inconsistencies with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act would have to be conditional on a proven, effective reason for public good. There is no such reason in this case, because, as stated, there is not enough evidence that this bill will be effective in keeping children safe from sexual violence offenders, and we all in this House are unified in agreeing that we want to keep children safe from sexual violence and offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EI want to highlight that the select committee in its report did note the inconsistencies with BORA, but the report chooses to take the inconsistencies into consideration but not make any changes to achieve consistency. That is why the Greens must put on record, on the Hansard and in this House, that we do not support ignoring inconsistencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003ESo, in closing, I repeat the Greens\u2019 value: the Greens want a world where all children here and across the world live lives free from sexual violence and abuse. We know we must strengthen the work to prevent sexual violence from ever happening in the first place. We want to see justice for all survivors of sexual violence and abuse, especially children. People who have sexually violated children must be held accountable for the heartbreaking and enduring harm that they have inflicted. Offenders must be accountable and supported to stop their violent behaviour, and there must be restoration and reparation directly to the survivors and their needs. Unfortunately, this bill, at best, will not make life safer for children. At worst, it will disrupt genuine rehabilitation for offenders to stop using violence. The Greens instead will keep advocating\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa052d34f63c46ea8d1d1bf43572811d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa052d34f63c46ea8d1d1bf43572811d\u0022\u003ELAURA TRASK (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I rise today in support of the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill on its second reading, presented by Mr Greg O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EThis bill helps to address a critical issue that has been plaguing our society\u2014child sex tourism and the exploitation and abuse of children is a huge issue. I agree with the member who has just resumed her seat, Kahurangi Carter, that this is not going to solve the bigger issues. However, this is one of the critical steps and I was actually really surprised that this isn\u2019t already happening. It will provide Police, Customs, and specified agencies the ability to share details of a convicted child sex offender when travelling to other jurisdictions, and this is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EI also extend my appreciation to the past and present members of the Justice Committee for their work on this bill. I know that I\u2019m not part of that committee and my fellow colleague Todd Stephenson was, and I\u2019m just stepping in tonight because we thought he wouldn\u2019t be in the House. But I want to acknowledge you guys and acknowledge the issues that were raised within the committee: the issues around the bill of human rights and the retrospectivity, and also what info was shared about offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EThe impact of child abuse, particularly in the form of sexual exploitation on young lives, cannot be overstated. Children who are victims of such crimes often suffer long-lasting physical, mental, and sexual health repercussions. The trauma inflicted on these innocent souls can be so severe that it amounts to torture or other cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. It is alarming to note that child sex tourism is actually a significant component of the sex tourism industry in certain regions such as Thailand, where hundreds of thousands of children are estimated to be working in the sex trade. This is a heinous crime that preys on the most vulnerable members of society, and I cannot allow previous sex offenders in this country to travel to countries like this, unknown, to be doing harm to other children overseas. I think that is absolutely critical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003ESocial attitudes that tolerate or ignore such crimes provide offenders, especially travelling sex offenders, with a sense of anonymity and impunity. It is heartening to see that efforts are being made in the private sector on global and regional and national levels to help address these challenges. We\u2019re seeing hotel chains coming up with management around identifying potential issues when it comes to this industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to amend the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) Act 2016 to require registered child sex offenders to provide additional information to the police before travelling overseas. This is a step in the right direction as it will enable law enforcement agencies to better protect children in countries the offenders travel to, and help identify cases of sex tourism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EAs a party that stands firm against crime, especially crimes against the most vulnerable, we must support measures that restrict the freedom of those who seek to harm our children. However, we must also acknowledge that this bill may not be a panacea. Some offenders may still choose to travel overseas for shorter periods to avoid detection. Therefore, I urge the Government to consider extending these requirements to all registered sex offenders travelling overseas, regardless of the duration of their visit. We must remain vigilant and proactive in our efforts to protect our children and ensure that perpetrators of such heinous crimes are brought to justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003EI just want to highlight that the registered sex offenders are the ones that have been caught\u2014the ones that we know to be perpetrators. It is the ones that walk around amongst us that we don\u2019t know about that must be our biggest focus. The World Health Organization reports that one in 13 men and one in five women are sexually abused globally. In New Zealand, one in seven children are estimated to experience sexual abuse\u2014one in seven children in New Zealand. That is alarming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003ESo, in conclusion, I support this bill and I urge my colleagues across the House to do the same. I hope that\u2014I mean, the Greens are still here: I hope you guys reconsider because there are bigger issues. Don\u2019t get me wrong, this is not a one-stop shop and it doesn\u2019t go far enough, but there are other things that we can do and this is just a very small step and I think it\u2019s one of the levers we should use. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u0022117047c366cf41a4b8e3ce1102c0a6bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022117047c366cf41a4b8e3ce1102c0a6bb\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise today to take this call on the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill, on behalf of New Zealand First. Now, this bill seeks to address an area which is very important for New Zealand First, and that is of public safety, particularly that of our most vulnerable in our society: our children. As already mentioned, there is a register that already exists, which holds a record of a range of up-to-date personal information about registered child sex offenders living within the community. It is a tool to help police and corrections staff with the monitoring of people who have offended in the past, with the aim of preventing reoffending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EThis bill, the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill, aims to enhance measures for monitoring and regulating the overseas travel of these registered child sex offenders. It proposes amendments to the existing legislation to require registrable offenders to provide additional information to the authorities before they travel overseas for more than 48 hours. This bill seeks to align reporting requirements for domestic and overseas travel, and it enhances the collaboration between the New Zealand Police and our Customs Service to protect our children from potential risks posed by overseas travellers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First\u2019s position is that we will support this bill. New Zealand First upholds the principles of protecting vulnerable individuals, safeguarding public safety, and ensuring the effective enforcement of laws. We prioritise the wellbeing of our children in the communities and we will always advocate for policies that promote their safety and their security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow, whilst a significant proportion of convicted child sex offenders do not reoffend once they are released from prison and back in society again, it is important to note that some do. Due to the nature of the type of offence, if, by chance, during a temporary lapse of reason, the offender commits yet another sexual offence, the consequences for the victims are by no means temporary. From the traumatic emotional harm and the possible physical harm caused as a result of this attack, the suffering for the victim and their family will continue. It could be that this one event is the beginning of another systemic family pattern of abuse. The introduction of this bill would be another measure to protect the most vulnerable in our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ESo what are some of the reasons that New Zealand First are supporting this bill? Well, as already mentioned, it will enhance the monitoring and the regulation, with additional information required when the offender is overseas, and for every country that they go to. Also, if an offender does not want to return to New Zealand, they have to also make that known and where they will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow, another reason that we\u2019re supporting this bill is because of the alignment with domestic reporting requirements. It will align the requirements for domestic and overseas travel, which will ensure consistency and coherency in monitoring the movements of these registrable offenders. This alignment streamlines enforcement efforts and facilitates cooperation between the agencies domestically and internationally. Also, it\u2019s a collaborative approach to protecting our children, the most vulnerable. The bill will promote a collaboration between New Zealand Police and Customs, leveraging their networks and resources to better protect the children in the countries where the offenders will travel to. By enabling this information sharing and coordination between the relevant agencies, this will strengthen the bill and these international efforts that are being taken around the world to combat child sex tourism, which, sadly, is a very real thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve already mentioned, New Zealand First is all about protecting our vulnerable, and it\u2019s a big reason why we will be supporting this bill. Now, some may say, \u201CWell, what about the rights of the offender?\u201D That is a valid question. They do also deserve a chance to rehabilitate and to not live under this cloud of shame and judgment for the remainder of their lives. What if, however, these additional requirements were, in fact, a deterrent for the sex offender? As mentioned, due to the nature of this offence, it can be a decision made in a split second that could lead to irreversible consequences for the victim. What if by having these extra measures, it would be a deterrent that they need to take responsibility for their actions, and ownership for their second chance at life, themselves?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ESo, in summary, New Zealand First believes that public safety concerns and the safety of children, who are our most vulnerable and defenceless, far outweighs the privacy or equal protection claims of the sex offender, and it is why we believe that this bill will be well received. I\u2019m very happy to commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00224bc1237221d14241ac12943455fe1834\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bc1237221d14241ac12943455fe1834\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. Just a little bit of backdrop from me in terms of why I\u2019m standing here and why I\u2019m going to speak to this particular take [subject]. So coming from Puao-te-Ata-tu 1989 through to the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act, having set up one of the first sexual assault counselling services in Taup\u014D in the 1990s, a care and protection social worker in Department of Social Welfare. Most of you won\u2019t remember that; it was a bit old. More recently in the fusion suicide prevention space and family harm and children\u2019s team. So that\u2019s a number of places and people and experiences and integrity, I guess, that I have to utilise in this discussion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori have previously voted against bills that further entrench punitive approaches to crime, punishment, and rehabilitation. This was the driver behind our initial opposition to the amendments of this bill during the first reading. While we Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori maintain that there is an absolute need for the complete overhaul of the criminal justice system, replaced by a M\u0101ori Justice Authority, which would oversee a justice system based on tikanga M\u0101ori, we know that protecting tamariki, mokopuna is critical, no matter where they are in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe amendments to this bill will not change circumstances for victims and their wh\u0101nau, but it will aid\u2014so you can just hold this in; just take a breath\u2014in the prevention of further potential harm to others through increased monitoring of registered child sex offenders. Because I get it. I worked in this space. There\u2019s probably very few in this House that could debate this with me and win. Prevention\u2014this is a word I will sit on for a while here as it is something that most Governments have failed to achieve in areas not exclusive to justice. So it feels almost unnatural to use this term prevention when discussing amendments to this bill. I\u2019ll be careful to use the term lightly in this context, as when we shine a light on to our young people here: 18 percent have already experienced sexual abuse by the time they reach the ages between 15 and 18. And it is a higher proportion of M\u0101ori who are victim to crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThese experiences are historically repetitive. I only need to choose any year at random to discover truly frightening statistics that expose the experiences of our tamariki. For example, take 2017 and our M\u0101ori children who are already overrepresented in Child, Youth and Family care services were also overrepresented as victims to sexual abuse, making up 37\u00A0percent of total harmed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EWhile the amendments to this bill will potentially prevent further harm internationally, they will not prevent what happens here to our tamariki. This bill should guide us to consider prevention beyond what we discuss today. That is the way we might realistically be able to protect our tamariki and prevent their future suffering as experienced by victims of child sexual abuse who are up to two times more likely to have adverse problems later in life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EIt is important for us to be reminded of the reality of tamariki during discussions which will directly impact them, and so, regarding the term prevention, I will both\u00A0recommend further preventative action and that will protect our tamariki while also commending this bill to the House. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7d8183b3fc24f34a244ff0b93562710\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7d8183b3fc24f34a244ff0b93562710\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill. We\u2019ll just call it the bill, I think, after this. Look, as part of the Justice Committee, ably chaired by my colleague here James Meager, we worked through this judiciously. It was presented, of course, in the amendment bill form to the 53rd Parliament on 3 August 2022\u2014and others have spoken about how its architecture goes back much further than that as well\u2014with submissions closing on 14\u00A0September 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EI was interested to learn that the Green Party\u2014there\u2019s a surprise every day in Parliament, and for us, today, it was that the Green Party won\u2019t be supporting this, particularly\u2014as my colleague Dan Bidois has spelt out because I wanted the full title of it\u2014as their co-leader the Hon Marama Davidson was, of course, the Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ENow, as other speakers have said, this will not solve everything; this will not stop everybody. But man, it\u2019s an improvement. And as others have also said, they\u2019re surprised that these policies and procedures and requirements are not in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard the words \u201Csex tourism\u201D and \u201Cexploitation\u201D kind of thrown around tonight, but the reality is\u2014as the sponsor, Greg O\u2019Connor, has told us repeatedly in select committee, and reminded us\u2014that the perpetrators are normally known to the victims: friends and family. It\u2019s not some overly sophisticated sex tourism thing, it\u2019s\u2014to use Mr Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s language\u2014normally those that might be going to Perth or Mooloolaba, and so visiting friends and family in the likes of Australia. And so it offers up greater protections for those children in those jurisdictions that we are supporting tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAt its core, the bill seeks to address significant gaps identified in the existing legal framework by imposing stricter reporting obligations on registered child sex offenders before they travel abroad by mandating\u2014and again, amazing that this hasn\u2019t happened in this form before\u2014comprehensive reporting of travel plans including destination details, duration of stay, and passport information. The main provisions include this: offenders intending to return to New Zealand must report each overseas address where they will stay and the dates of travel to and from each country; offenders not intending to return must report the country where they intend to reside; all offenders must report the passport number, place of issue, and expiry date of every valid passport they hold. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo, tonight, what this does is it enhances New Zealand\u2019s capacity to protect children globally by ensuring that the likes of New Zealand Police and our Customs Service have detailed information on the movements of these registered child sex offenders. And as others have canvassed, it brings in line overseas travel reporting requirements with those already in place for domestic travel. So I would argue it\u2019s long overdue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAgain, I wanted to pay tribute to the bill\u2019s sponsor, Greg O\u2019Connor. He sat very patiently in the Justice Committee, waiting for his item to come up, and he spoke very passionately for it. He\u2019s also spoken earlier tonight about his work as a detective many, many, many years ago and the fact that he saw this in many confronting guises, and saw firsthand the impacts. He used the word\u2014in most cases these people, the offenders, were, sadly, just pathetic\u2014just pathetic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo the National Party stands with Mr O\u2019Connor, stands with other parties\u2014minus the Green Party\u2014who look set to support this. Again, disappointing that the previous Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence isn\u2019t in support of this, but we believe this is a critical step in enhancing international cooperation, strengthening monitoring capabilities, and safeguarding vulnerable children. And so why wouldn\u2019t we go there? And the chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256bd7e9cee1648dc83617fa66407afef\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: They voted for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd1b09d2f32a431c94e1de7932d1b449\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: They voted for it in select committee, the Green Party, but they\u2019ve since changed their mind. The select committee\u2014as I\u2019ve said, ably chaired by Otago alumni James Meager, our in-house solicitor\u2014made a number of recommendations, all of them for proposed amendments, all of them unanimous. He\u2019s already taken us through, clause 2\u2014we postponed the bill\u2019s commencement to allow police time to prepare and inform offenders about the new requirements. We eliminated redundant passport information reporting provisions giving existing obligations. As he\u2019s also said, our proposed amendments from select committee proposed the Act clarify and enhance information sharing between specified agencies for public safety and risk management; and explicitly applying the bill retrospectively, as well, was a proposal from this select committee to ensure comprehensive coverage of all registered offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo this is something that now comes to its second reading and, hopefully, on to its third reading, and it\u2019s something that should have, arguably, been in place and something that, even if it saves\u2014\u201Ceven if it saves\u201D, as we often say in this House\u2014one child, would be well worth our time. We know it\u2019s going to do better than that, and with the increased technological improvements and now with the increased reporting capability and requirements, this is going to mean that we know where our registered sex offenders are overseas, and our police and our Customs do too. Why wouldn\u2019t we want to know that information? Why wouldn\u2019t the Green Party want to know that information? That is the staggering\u2014that is the biggest surprise for us in the National Party here tonight. Why wouldn\u2019t the previous Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence say to her party and caucus, \u201CWe have got to support this. Yes, we\u2019ve got concerns. Members, please table them, in the Green Party. But, overall, we have got to support this.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EBut, sadly, the Green Party aren\u2019t and so it\u2019s left to the other parties: as we know, the National Party, unanimous in their support of 49 votes; the Labour Party have been strong in their support for Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s intentions; Todd Stephenson, on the Justice Committee, represented by Laura Trask, they\u2019ve been strongly supportive, as have New Zealand First. And so we come together as kind of like the super coalition, really\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228f20b644-642a-4c85-ade9-d5af32dc690b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cae24e0b3c78449b85587994b08c6a85\u0022\u003ELaura Trask\u003C/span\u003E: And the M\u0101ori Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224217fda9a49043fbbb75b844961e23a9\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: And Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. Oh look, jeez, thank you for pointing that out, this is a mega-super coalition of support\u2014\u201CKumbaya\u201D has broken out. But I would argue that it\u2019s broken out for the very, very reasons that most of us are here, whether we\u2019re aunts or uncles, neighbours, grandparents, parents, parents-to-be, nephews, nieces, we\u2019ve all got connections, we\u2019ve all got such precious\u00A0people in our lives that we want to protect. There is no more vulnerable people in this society, I would argue, no more vulnerable people in this society than our young,\u00A0young children. And protecting them from registered sex offenders is core business to this Parliament, and so I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002248ba649c2490444dabfa6a084aeff691\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248ba649c2490444dabfa6a084aeff691\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure to stand and speak in support of my colleague and friend Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s member\u2019s bill, the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill. Two sets of brackets Greg, that\u2019s impressive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill because it extends upon what has already been working well in New Zealand. Established back in around 2016 was New Zealand\u2019s first ever sex offender register, which required those sex offenders, when travelling within New Zealand, if travelling away from their primary residence, to make sure it was recorded where they were staying and for the length of time they\u2019re staying, within New Zealand. The specific reason behind this is to identify if there would be children residing in the house.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESo what this bill really does is bring the overseas requirements for child sex offenders in line with the requirement which already exists when offenders travel domestically. So they will need to provide addresses of travel, particularly when there will be children present. This bill amends the primary legislation in a simple form to make these requirements incumbent upon those registered sex offenders who are travelling internationally. This works to grow the community of countries who are all looking out for the best interests of New Zealand, of children, and particularly New Zealand children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to note that there has been quite a body of work being done to identify potential gaps in borders, to identify existing opportunities that sex offenders can utilise in order to reach areas where children are unprotected. Typically, I\u2019m not a big fan of policies that are based on the idea of deterring someone from committing a crime because most of the research demonstrates that deterrence in itself doesn\u2019t really work in terms of preventing crime from happening. But this is one area where the high level of premeditation involved is one where evidence demonstrates that deterrence does have a valuable factor involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI looked into this particularly when I had my own member\u2019s bill in the same space, looking at online grooming. All the evidence I could see was that there is a high level of premeditation, planning, and essentially building a web\u2014is the way it\u2019s described by those experts\u2014where it facilitates and enables a sex offender to commit crimes. And there can be years and years of planning going into establishing an environment that enables the offender to access young, vulnerable people. So whatever we can do to join up with the international community to prevent that from happening is a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to note that we\u2019ve already done some work internationally, so there\u2019s already a United Nations convention that New Zealand has signed up to, along with a number of other countries. And what that convention has done will work alongside Greg\u2019s bill. So that means that if a New Zealand citizen goes to another country and commits a sex offence against a child, then that offender can also be charged and convicted back in New Zealand. And that\u2019s one of the very rare instances where committing a crime in another country is actually able to be prosecuted here in New Zealand, and we do have examples of where that\u2019s worked already. We know that there\u2019s been instances in the past where someone travelled to Moscow in 2007 where he photographed and exploited young children. That person was then sentenced at the High Court in 2008 and received a seven-year imprisonment on four charges of sexual violation. So that is an example of countries working across borders in order to make it as difficult as possible for child sex offenders who look to prey upon the most vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn particular, I think it\u2019s important to note that there are particular countries that have got known sex tourism, that have a market for children and young people. And we know that sex offenders do travel to areas such as Thailand, also Cambodia\u2014and Phnom Penh has a particular street where that is known to occur. And when you have people from, typically, Western countries travelling to those countries, which have significantly reduced incomes and extreme poverty in some areas, it is directly exploiting families who are in need of money for access to their children. There is no other word for it but despicable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIf we can work alongside other countries in respect of those sex offenders, if they are known to the State, we have a moral responsibility to work alongside other countries to make sure that we monitor their movement and make sure that they are not accessing vulnerable young people not only in New Zealand but also in other countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EGreg\u2019s done a great job at shepherding this bill through. It has taken a while at the Justice Committee, but we have all worked quite hard over a period of time to enable it to reach this point. It\u2019s important to note that as much as this is to protect children and potential victims, it\u2019s also an opportunity to note that many of these offenders are known to their victims. I just want to make that point. I tend to make that point every time that we have a stereotype in our mind that a sex offender is a stranger in a park with a coat on, in horn-rimmed glasses. But that is, in fact, not always the case at all. It is people within our own families, within our own social circles who know children well and create a relationship based on trust before any offending ever begins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EAnd the more that we can convey that message to our communities, that it is not strangers only that we should fear, but sometimes we need to be cautious as parents and guardians of those people within our own social circles who seek access to young people and prey upon their vulnerabilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOffenders, we know, protect themselves by knowing that the authorities know where they will be. And so overseas family members and potential victims will receive the same protection as those same families in New Zealand by the offender knowing that their travel and places of the address are being monitored. So that is people in New Zealand travelling to be with families in other countries, and those families who reside in other countries deserve to be having the same protections as families here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI just would like to note that as part of the bill there\u2019s been a section 7 report on the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and a part of that is the retrospectivity\u2014as previously noted, double jeopardy and retrospectivity that this bill needs to be retrospective in order for it to operate, and that has been a factor in picking that up. The additional reporting requirements will apply to people who have already been registered offenders on the register. So it\u2019s for that reason that the double jeopardy rule had been triggered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EHowever, it\u2019s also important to note that in the Solicitor-General\u2019s section 7 report, they note that it\u2019s an important balance of rights to make sure that there is a balance of rights of those having the safety and protection, and that needs to be weighed up in this instance as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to conclude by congratulating Greg O\u2019Connor. He\u2019s continued to shepherd this bill through a long process, and it is another step to make sure that we join hands with the international community and provide as much protection as possible in an area where there are known predators who will continue to look for opportunities. And the more that we can close those gaps and shut down those opportunities, then the safer and more protected the next generation of young people will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u002265069374c953421bbc2ad2036e9b202c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265069374c953421bbc2ad2036e9b202c\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Every time I stand to contribute to a piece of legislation that has to do with focusing on behaviour that harms or behaviour that disrespects or disregards the rights of others, I always think that it\u2019s a sad time. Here we are, having to legislate to stop people from causing harm to other people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EThe child sex offender situation is on a constant escalation path. It is prevalent in many countries. It goes in many different forms. I echo the member Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s view that, for the most part, the scary part is that offenders are often known to their victims. They are known, they exercise some authority or control or nearness\u2014they are able to perpetuate their behaviour with people, sometimes their own family members, sometimes people that have been entrusted to their care. But that range of offending goes all the way across into a more, you know, syndicated, planned, organised manner where people travel to many countries for the purpose of child sexual abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EThe worst of it is that this kind of heinous activity and crime is targeted at children who have no opportunity to defend themselves and who are absolutely vulnerable to the advances of people who either have authority over them or gain authority over them in\u00A0terms of, you know, financial reward\u2014sometimes not even to the little children but to\u00A0the families that they come from\u2014because of poverty. So, here, we are trying to make a dent in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EThe Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill seeks to amend section 21 of the principal Act, which is the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) Act of 2016. It has to do with requiring registered or registrable child sex offenders\u2014people who have already been convicted of the offence\u2014to provide additional information should they wish to travel. It is of note that the bill also specifies that if travel from, say, their registered address in New Zealand, then they are asked to inform where they\u2019re going, when they\u2019re going, when they\u2019re leaving, where they will be going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ESo the added information, including information about their details, allows New Zealand to track where they are and enables overseas authorities to also do the same. Because of this, we can accomplish the objective of somehow making a dent on this world of hideous filth. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00221c05196ca58c4c738d550f4f07d98bbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c05196ca58c4c738d550f4f07d98bbd\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe it\u2019s my call, and I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this bill, the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill. This was a bill that came to the Justice Committee in the previous Parliament\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6573af7de474a9a8809fb19fcaf3e2b\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. I believe that Labour took their call early in the piece.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022834d5244df8b4c2081971634763f9c6c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is part of the split call. There is still\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253f71fd1e5534a64a0cbbb94abfb362c\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: Which split call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afd9c88d031641e8957ed9633a5f23a5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Garcia had half the split call, and Arena Williams\u2014so there was a change in order earlier in the evening when someone didn\u2019t stand up. So Labour has taken one of their calls out of this. But this is the other half of the split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce8c2cec72df4e0dab21dad05a00046f\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: So Paulo Garcia\u2019s call was 10 minutes, and he only did five?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293fccf29d9a84897a0038d57af2fd9a6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He had a five-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ebaac0af61f48f7bc360e26b8b94a81\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: There seems to be some confusion, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022627ebbb6a6534d2497110b667f5e8503\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. I\u2019ll let Arena Williams carry on with her speech. If you\u2019d like to just come up and talk while she\u2019s doing that, we\u2019ll sort it through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a91bb5f94a604a1f98d9e038e6ae126f\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. This was a bill that originally came to the Justice Committee in 2022 when it was ably chaired by the Hon Ginny Andersen. That committee did a huge amount of work on seeking the New Zealand Police\u2019s advice, and I thank the advisers from New Zealand Police for their extensive advice about a few issues that the committee was particularly concerned about. Those were the enforcement issues around this bill, the proportionality issues that have arisen in the Attorney-General\u2019s report, and the practical steps for change. So I am going to speak to all three of those issues. But also I want to thank the current Justice Committee for working through some of those and other issues, with the Amendment Paper from the Hon Erica Stanford, which deals with those Customs issues, and the previous chair of the Justice Committee, Vanushi Walters, who was really helpful in guiding the committee\u2019s thinking around those issues of proportionality and how as parliamentarians we might engage with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThese crimes that this bill deals with are some of the most heinous. Not only are they against the most vulnerable people in our society, who deserve our utmost protection, who are vulnerable children, often in impoverished countries, in the most dire of circumstances, but this is also about the most privileged offenders, in Western countries, using not only their power to travel but their financial wealth to exploit people in other countries and go home and wash their hands of their offending. It is the most heinous kind of crime, and none of us should turn our eyes away from it. And so we worked through, firstly, these enforcement issues, which arise at several points, in different ways, in the Attorney-General\u2019s reporting on this. There\u2019s a comment from the initial Attorney-General report about how, when considering the way that the penalties would change because of this and how offenders would have a right to the lesser penalty when this applied, there was an issue the Attorney-General identified that the stated evidence is limited as to the effectiveness of sex offender registers in improving public safety. And so this change would still engage that kind of test of proportionality which applied to the original sex offender legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe Justice Committee chaired by Vanushi Walters and chaired by Ginny Andersen considered those issues\u2014when you look at whether child sex offender registers are effective at a population level, as different to whether they\u2019re effective at an individual level. At a population level, it is very hard to track whether there is an effect of child sex offender registers, because they don\u2019t stop anything. You can\u2019t tell when someone is breaching them. You also can\u2019t tell what effect they\u2019re having on people. You might say, \u201CWell, if they were keeping people from offending, they were never going to offend anyway.\u201D\u2014and if people were offending and they were still registered on the register, then that shows that they were going to offend no matter what kind of registration there was against their name. So, at a population level, it is very hard to track, but I agree with colleagues around the House who have made the point that, at an individual level, there is a deterrence effect here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe points raised by the Hon Ginny Andersen were correct in that, when you think about deterrence for crimes like these, deterrence by itself is usually very ineffective, and it needs to go alongside all of the other reasons why we would criminalise something and how we would apply that to people\u2019s individual experience. But in a crime like this, where someone has planned to travel overseas, where someone has contacts in another jurisdiction to make their offending possible, and where there is a closing web around their victims that they personally have created, this factors into their decision-making about how they will continue to offend. And so it is useful for us to consider that, within the proportionality of this punishment, the Supreme Court did consider these kinds of punishments to be actual punishments that weighed on people\u2019s abilities to enjoy their rights, as being proportionate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, it\u2019s only a five-minute call, so there are issues around the enforcement of proportionality, but the practical steps for change do continue here, and we need to constantly be meeting our obligations under the UN convention that\u00A0New Zealand has signed up to, and look to our neighbours in Australia about the\u00A0kinds\u00A0of advancements that they have made, which are in line with the legislative\u00A0change we are making tonight. So I want to congratulate my colleague Greg O\u2019Connor on the excellent policy work that he has done here. I also want to\u00A0congratulate him on\u00A0his\u00A0cross-partisan work with the Hon Erica Stanford to bring in those changes\u00A0which affect Customs. I commend this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00227548131dc8cf46dba2dbca50df634b3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227548131dc8cf46dba2dbca50df634b3b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Now, we\u2019re just doing a cross check. We believe things went out of order but are in order. We\u2019ve just been notified that the National Party wishes to make this last call a split call, so I call Rima Nakhle for a five-minute call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4c8599830df474bab5afc8ec596b377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4c8599830df474bab5afc8ec596b377\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker; I\u2019m sure the Speaker can bring everything into order. I rise to speak in support of the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill. In essence, this bill seeks to amend the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) Act from 2016\u2014that\u2019s when it was made into legislation. So that\u2019s our principal Act for the purposes of today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EEssentially, what this amendment bill seeks to do is make it a requirement that registered child sex offenders provide additional information to police before travelling overseas for more than 48 hours. Now, currently, there is section 21 of the principal Act which requires sex offenders to advise the registrar of their travel plans\u2014but this is seeking to make it mandatory for them to provide a lot more detail to the authorities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003ESo what the amendment bill will mandate is the following: that each address at which the offender intends to stay while overseas must be noted, must be given; the date on which the offender intends to travel to that country; the date on which the offender intends to travel out of the country; and where the offender doesn\u2019t intend to come back to New Zealand, that country must also be given to the police. The passport number, the place of issue, date of expiry of each valid passport held by the offender must also be given to the police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u201CWhat\u2019s the purpose of these amendments?\u201D, we can ask the House. The purpose is to allow police and customs networks to better protect children in the countries that offenders travel to and support identification of cases of sex tourism. These amendments are specific and they\u2019re deliberate, and they aim to fill some of the concerning and alarming gaps present in the principal Act in its current form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003ERegistered child sex offender\u2014what a horrible, repugnant set of words. I\u2019m saddened\u2014I\u2019m saddened\u2014to hear that the Green Party is not supporting this bill, because children are children no matter where they are around the world. The former speaker from the Green Party Kahurangi Carter said that it only captures convicted, known offenders. That breaks my heart because, as one of my colleagues said, if these changes save one child from the sexual violations of sex predators\u2014because that\u2019s what they are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284fda81d828042f887ce30a16de91fa9\u0022\u003EHon Karen Chhour\u003C/span\u003E: Worth it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcb23d251b904d74afaa8d56c72d4676\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Worth it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c769db3535454682beb07abae1f8dbf8\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014then we\u2019ve done our job. Then it\u2019s worth it. Sexual abuse against children is a different level of abhorrent. The child sex abuser is not, in my opinion, merely an offender. He or she is a life-wrecker, a youth destroyer, and a thief of innocence. So it\u2019s our obligation as legislators\u2014and, more importantly, as New Zealanders\u2014to protect children from the desecration of sexual violence against them. Because that is what child sex abuse is: a violation of the worst kind\u2014against an innocent, pure child. This amendment bill, if and, hopefully, when translated to law, will communicate to the world that New Zealand sees it as our duty to protect children from sexual exploitation in whichever way we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the Attorney-General\u2019s report on the consistency, or lack thereof, of this amendment bill with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. There\u2019s issues like the right of a person\u2014in this case, a registered child sex offender\u2014to benefit from the lesser penalty, and the issue of freedom from double jeopardy and retrospectivity. But these issues have been discussed in the past and were discussed recently by the current Justice Committee, and, indeed, we need to carefully balance these. I, and we, commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Mr O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u002271c45038cacd4053a2c1d8fa084bd4af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271c45038cacd4053a2c1d8fa084bd4af\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I take great pride in rising as the final speaker, in support of Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s bill this evening, in its second reading, the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill\u2014or, as my colleague Cameron Brewer so aptly called it earlier on, the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThe bill is a member\u2019s bill by the MP for \u014Ch\u0101riu, and it amends the principal Act to require registered child sex offenders to provide additional information to the police before travelling overseas for more than 48 hours. Now, when I read this for the first time, I thought, \u201CGoodness me. How does this not happen already? How is this actually not the country we live in, in 2024, where this is already taking place?\u201D It really disappoints me where I\u2019ve listened across the speeches given this evening, and to think there\u2019s a political party here who doesn\u2019t want to support this legislation. I think, actually, I\u2019m proud to be a part of the party that\u2019s supporting the Opposition party by bringing this bill to the House, and we\u2019re supporting it through the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ENow, having not been a contributor on the first reading or through the select committee stage, I did my homework before getting up to speak. Particularly, I looked through a couple of documents that I thought would really be beneficial to contribute to this debate. Firstly, the departmental report. Currently, section 21 of the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) Act 2016 only requires registered persons to advise the register of their travel plans if they\u2019re travelling overseas for more than 48\u00A0hours; they are only required to advise the register of the dates they are leaving and returning to New Zealand, not the country of destination. Section 22 requires the registered offender to advise the register if the date of their return to New Zealand changes while they are overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThen I dived a little bit deeper. I looked at the submissions that were received by the Justice Committee. Of the 10 submissions received, six were in favour, two were opposed, one didn\u2019t specifically state whether or not they supported the bill, and one was considered out of scope. Overall, submissions expressed support for increasing the protection provided to children and vulnerable people, including those overseas. Although only six of the 10 submitters explicitly supported the bill, only two submitters opposed the bill. One opposed the bill on the basis of human rights considerations for the registered offender, and one opposed the bill based on the view that sex offenders should not be permitted to travel at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EI then dived a little bit deeper because I saw that the Justice Committee had recommended that the bill be passed with unanimous support, and the Green Party actually sits on that select committee and gave it support at select committee, yet coming back to the second reading they\u2019ve changed their mind, which is disappointing. But there were four proposed amendments. The first: postponing the bill\u2019s commencement to allow police time to prepare and inform offenders about the new requirements, a pragmatic change that ensures amending the commencement date to three months after Royal assent. The second proposed amendment to the bill was eliminating redundant passport information reporting provisions, given existing obligations. That just seems sort of a business-as-usual tweak to make sure the bill operates as best as it possibly can. The third amendment: amending the Act to clarify and enhance information sharing between specified agencies for public safety and risk management\u2014the information sharing between Government agencies, which is so vital to the protection of our children and our communities. Finally, explicitly applying the bill retrospectively to ensure comprehensive coverage of all registrable offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EImproved international cooperation and protection\u2014this bill will demonstrate New\u00A0Zealand\u2019s global leadership in protecting children from sexual exploitation by\u00A0highlighting our protective reach beyond our borders. It establishes international cooperation, preventing offenders from using travel to avoid detection. I support this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e626e22cf3846e39ec9a36d2924d2ed\u0022\u003ESale and Supply of Alcohol (Cellar Door Tasting) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002212d29babacae4c8ba83d0f5fea2eab47\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9167e8509b44cb7900b36454361afc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9167e8509b44cb7900b36454361afc2\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Cellar Door Tasting) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a great pleasure to stand in front of the House and speak to the second reading. It\u2019s a quite sobering exercise\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd965084d6124b869a2cebfc987a0757\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Aw, come on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a296727626f447d8bbd51d5d75fd9ec\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I don\u2019t mean any pun intended! But following on from the very serious subject that we were debating just before, it quite makes me take a second thought before I speak on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBut it is a great thrill to have your own member\u2019s bill, particularly, get through to the second reading, going through select committee\u2014particularly so when we\u2019ve crossed into another Parliament. The first reading was in front of the previous Parliament, but it went through the Justice Committee under this current Parliament. So it is one of those different scenarios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThis bill will allow wineries to charge for tastings at their cellar doors for the wine that they have made. The wine industry has, actually, the sixth largest goods export by value, and the important thing about that is, actually, the main markets that wine is exported to are OECD countries. These are discerning customers who, with the wine experience that they have, actually add to the value of New Zealand\u2019s other products, because people say if we can make serious wine in the world, then we can also make other products that are very serious. That\u2019s how it\u2019s treated. And some people, of course, travel to New Zealand to actually experience wine, or they experience wine here, for the first time, at a cellar door. That\u2019s why this bill has a far greater effect on businesses than just on those small businesses that have cellar doors\u2014because tourism, after all, is our second largest business and our second largest export earner, actually, in New Zealand. Cellar-door wine experiences are a very important part of that. A lot of the tourists that do visit wineries tend to stay for a longer period of time, and they spend more money while they\u2019re here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EHowever, for cellar doors, it can be quite an awkward situation, because it is very difficult for them to charge for tastings. There is an anomaly in the law which makes it quite difficult for them to have a licence to be able to charge for those tastings, and this bill addresses those shortcomings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank the submitters that came and gave evidence to the select committee. We had small wineries that came and gave evidence about how they are actually giving their wine away for tastings, at some cost to themselves. They do it because it\u2019s part of their business, but it would make it much more economic for them if they were able to charge for it. Other wineries would actually open a cellar door, if they were able to recover those costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWe also heard from Pernod Ricard, which is one of the biggest wineries. It\u2019s a French-owned company, listed on the CAC 40. They gave evidence that their Church Road winery\u2014while they have a licence and they are able to sell food and, therefore, provide food in their restaurant and, therefore, charge for tastings\u2014is so desperate to get staff some days that it means they can\u2019t serve food. Therefore, they can\u2019t charge for tastings, so they don\u2019t open their cellar door. Having this law in place would make it much easier for them to charge for tastings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWe also had a small winery in Marlborough, Tupari Wines, which is in the Awatere Valley, quite some distance from the main road, which is State Highway 1. They have a cellar door in the old railway station, not on their property, but it\u2019s sort of a remote winery that belongs to that winery. They gave evidence that we had a definition in the bill which would enable those wineries to actually have a cellar-door licence and charge for tastings. So it was great to get that broad range of submitters who came and gave their experience and brought that to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to thank the members of the Justice Committee, ably led by James Meager and co. It\u2019s quite difficult\u2014for those that are not involved in Parliament, with all the best will in the world, you can write a bill the best way you think you can, you put it before a select committee, and actually you find things that need to be adjusted. The only way you can do that is by having the public take part in the political process by giving evidence\u2014in this case, cellar-door operators and other people. We even had distillers and brewers who wanted to be a part of this bill, but, unfortunately, that\u2019s not what this bill\u2019s about, and it was outside the scope. But they all had their opportunity to have their say. I know, as the select committee members would agree, that having those people in front of the select committee really added so much to the process, and so I would like to thank the select committee members for the way they approached that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo there were some amendments that were made to the bill. Originally, as drafted, it had \u201Callow a sample size to be 40 millilitres\u201D. We found, from evidence, that 30 millilitres is the average pour size, but we thought we\u2019d leave enough room for human error. It\u2019s not something that\u2019s bottled; it\u2019s poured by hand and often in larger glasses, so it\u2019s not simple to measure. But, in the end, we thought, well, that was too much tolerance, and, therefore, we went back to 35 millilitres. So that was one of the changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned before, the remote winery\u2014well, we did bring in a specific definition for what would be a \u201Cwinery\u201D, which is producing and selling grape wine products, or selling grape wine or grape wine products that have been produced on that person\u2019s behalf. But that does not open it up for retailers to be able to get involved in that; you have to be a winery or a grape grower to actually qualify as a cellar door.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo I think the other issues that were changed was to have snack foods available. So that\u2019s actually defined in the Act already. That could be a cheeseboard, for example\u2014those sorts of things. It\u2019s not too onerous, as it would be otherwise. Bearing in mind, a lot of these cellar doors are quite small.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve actually visited wineries from Northland all the way to South Otago. They are\u00A0all over the country and even in your own electorate, Madam Speaker, in Taranaki.\u00A0So we do have wineries in quite out-of-the-way places. I did ask the library, as I\u00A0mentioned in my first reading speech, to search the number of electorates that\u00A0had\u00A0wineries in them. It was quite surprising: they\u2019re all over the country, quite frankly. They are small businesses, mostly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe provision of water is usually provided and is actually required under the law when you\u2019re giving samples away, but we had to add a provision in the bill to capture that for this specific type of liquor outlet, if you like\u2014that being a cellar door.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThose were the main amendments I wanted to touch on. This would make a huge difference for small business in New Zealand as well as large business. It would make a huge difference and enhance our tourism offering for New Zealand. And I think that it\u2019s just a sensible piece of legislation. The existing law was just an anomaly, in the way it was written\u2014that cellar doors weren\u2019t able to charge for tastings unless they were selling food. That, by the nature of the size of a lot of these cellar doors, would never ever be an economic proposition. So I thank all the members who have supported the bill so far. I hope they continue to do so. With that, I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2c32b39b9b942a283c0cf38cb4913ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2c32b39b9b942a283c0cf38cb4913ca\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00224928fdf1552148f282062ca968a1a972\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224928fdf1552148f282062ca968a1a972\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The member in charge of this bill, Stuart Smith, is certainly an advocate for the wine industry and a bit of a fan, and good on him for that. Over on this side of the House, we will be treating this bill as a conscience vote, so our votes\u2014we\u2019re not at one. As is the case with most alcohol bills, they\u2019re dealt with in this manner, at least in the Labour Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m one of the members of the Labour Party who doesn\u2019t support this bill. I worked constructively on the Justice Committee to get it into the shape that it is, but certainly we have some concerns around it. I guess there\u2019s a global concern about liberalisation of the availability of alcohol generally. Having said that, I don\u2019t think that would quite be enough for me to oppose this bill if it was done right. The member in charge stood up, and one of his first lines was \u201CThis will enable wine tasting at the cellar door.\u201D That\u2019s just not what this bill does. This bill allows wine tasting anywhere, providing it\u2019s provided by the winegrower or winemaker. So one of my real concerns about this bill is that someone could become a winemaker by contract, contract to have some wine made, and set up a bar anywhere and without all of the usual controls around the provision of alcohol. The only constraint would be the size of the serving. The provision of proper food wouldn\u2019t be needed, host responsibility programmes wouldn\u2019t be needed, the whole alcohol-control regime\u2014the bar would be lowered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, the member in charge, I know, thinks that that\u2019s fanciful and kind of pooh-poohed the idea, but we know that whilst most people who grow wine and so on love their work, love their product, and are great advocates of it, there are nefarious actors out there who will take advantage of what is a legal loophole, and this is a massive legal loophole. That\u2019s one of the concerns that I have, probably the most significant concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAnd the second-order concern is that simply by limiting the size of a serve to 35\u00A0millilitres\u2014about a fifth of a usual glass\u2014the controls around alcohol provision generally are significantly lowered. Whilst it might be a little onerous to top up your glass frequently or to pour them five at a time, it\u2019s certainly not out of the question. So my main concerns are around alcohol harm, but even that by itself\u2014I don\u2019t know; I\u2019m probably on the fence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other kind of problem I have with this bill is that it actually skews the market. In select committee, I was very clear\u2014and other members were also deeply concerned; and it\u2019s recorded in the select committee report\u2014that if we\u2019re going to go down this road and if we\u2019re going to get the rules right, then, surely, our artisan brewers should be able to have brewery-door tastings as well. Our artisan cideries should be able to have\u2014and I do like a good cider\u2014cidery-door tastings as well. Even our fruit wines, our Barker\u2019s elderberry wine, should be able to have their tastings as well. But the member in charge was adamant that, no, this wasn\u2019t a change he would support, because it was just about grape wine. Apart from the snobbishness of that, it\u2019s actually\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bf3e3fd28d74d35b47f0d47df0f17db\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Come on!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022923d289bd6b94dd7a71a3135772335eb\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, put away your pinot noir. Apart from that, it actually skews the market. It gives quite an unfair advantage to wineries and grape growers who can have this particular sales technique\u2014this particular tasting arrangement\u2014which other people who brew alcoholic beverages cannot have. And that\u2019s just not right. It\u2019s just not fair. I would have hoped that in the National Party, they wouldn\u2019t just be interested in helping along the wine industry, but they\u2019d be wanting to help along all businesses: small breweries, small cideries, small fruit wineries. So why is it that we\u2019ve got this very targeted reform?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019ll probably get over the hurdle. It\u2019ll probably get through tonight, and onward we\u2019ll go. Certainly, when we get to the committee stage, I\u2019ll be putting in some Amendment Papers. I\u2019m very happy to talk to the member about those in advance because I\u2019m here for the debate; I\u2019m not here to ambush anyone. I certainly don\u2019t think it should be called the \u201Ccellar door tasting bill\u201D. It should simply be called the \u201Ctasting bill\u201D because you can taste it anywhere. You know as well as I do, Stuart Smith, that under the rules as drafted, Montana can have a tasting bar in the middle of Christchurch Central, 30\u00A0kilometres from the nearest winery. So it just doesn\u2019t work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s have a constructive discussion at committee stage, assuming\u2014and I\u2019m pretty\u00A0certain it will\u2014that it does get through this reading. But let\u2019s also have a careful think\u00A0about what a \u201Ccellar door\u201D really means, because I think, perhaps, a better rule\u00A0for\u00A0\u201Ccellar door\u201D would be something like \u201Cwithin 10 kilometres of where the grapes are produced\u201D, because that would make some sense. There\u2019s a fancy French phrase\u00A0which I can\u2019t recall but I\u2019m sure the member would remind me about the\u00A0connection of the wine to the local land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252d0adf6a9644c859b218a16139d6c33\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: Appellation. The appellation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5660db2bdb44427961db6f6e87a7e87\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, it\u2019s not \u201Cappellation\u201D, Helen White. You\u2019ve got to be\u2014everyone knows that one. So let\u2019s have a think about that, because that would make a bit more sense. But that\u2019s for another time. At this stage, I know there are some members who are not in support of this bill and others on this side of the House who are. Let\u2019s have a decent debate, and I hope you\u2019ll have the same approach in the National Party with differing views across the members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022343049ccf135402f8435a2bd33fed85b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022343049ccf135402f8435a2bd33fed85b\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I just wanted to acknowledge the member the honourable Stuart Smith and put him out of his misery by stating, up front, that all 15 Green MPs in our caucus have had a discussion about the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Cellar Door Tasting) Amendment Bill, and all 15 of our MPs\u2014unless anything crazy happens tonight\u2014will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EThe reason for that is that despite some of the longbow arguments that I have heard from the member in charge of this legislation, perhaps this could be a form of alcohol harm minimisation. And, sure, that could potentially apply at the margins with regard to charging for those tasting samples. We have a situation where\u2014actually, as the former speaker from the Labour Party, the Hon Duncan Webb, was just outlining\u2014there is actually a far broader point to be made. And while I wouldn\u2019t use some of the language that he did to characterise this legislation\u2014that being, in his own words, \u201Csnobbish\u201D\u2014it is the case that this House does tend to treat certain substances in far more highbrow ways than we do other substances. So I would appeal to members of the Government, in particular, as well as members of the Opposition, and members of this House as a whole, to apply the logic that they apply to this to all substances\u2014in fact, to open the lid on the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act, as a whole, and the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 to take the approach that all substances can cause harm, and therefore the approach that we should take is: how do we put in place legislation and regulation to reduce that harm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo, as I was just outlining at the start, it is a bit of a longbow to try and argue that what we have here is a piece of alcohol-harm minimisation, but none the less it could potentially make some difference at the margins by allowing for the charging for those samples. However, I think that the far more compelling argument, as the member in charge has very ably made, particularly as it affects my electorate in Auckland Central and the wineries of Waiheke, is that there is an opportunity here for, again, albeit at the margins, a little bit of that economic development. Again, wouldn\u2019t it be amazing if we saw these kinds of things applied to, I don\u2019t know, the medicinal cannabis industry in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s it, really. The Greens support this legislation. It\u2019s a pretty simple piece of legislation. It does what it says on the tin. I\u2019m looking forward to actually seeing some of those Amendment Papers from the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I\u2019d invite him and members of the Labour Party who have seemingly discussed this at great length to come and speak to us about some of those Amendment Papers, because we may be interested in supporting them. But I also would say to the member in charge that they can look forward to some robust questioning at the committee of the whole House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003EJust in summarising that, we\u2019d like to thank the 72-odd submitters, both individuals and organisations, who put their two cents in at the select committee stage. That is, of\u00A0course, something which we would invite all New Zealanders to do, to engage in the democratic process, to inform, and to upgrade our legislation, and something that\u00A0I\u00A0would encourage members of the Government to indulge in all the more often,\u00A0given the processes that they have currently taken to ram through pieces of legislation. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdaaf97d633042a4a32aef83068ed4eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdaaf97d633042a4a32aef83068ed4eb\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a real pleasure to rise tonight. It\u2019s getting late in the hour. It probably would be great if we had a cellar door somewhere on the premises, but we don\u2019t. But I do want to rise and speak on this bill and congratulate Stuart Smith, the member in charge, on his advocacy for this. He\u2019s obviously a very strong advocate for his local region of Kaik\u014Dura and the wine industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EJust before I talk about the bill, I also am a great advocate of the wine industry. I come from down south. I live in Queenstown. We obviously have a wonderful wine industry in Central Otago\u2014some might say the best in New Zealand, but I wouldn\u2019t want to prejudice that. And, of course, we have a very long history in Central Otago of wine. Actually, the first recorded win for a gold medal wine in Central Otago was in 1881, which is quite something. But it was actually more recently in the 1970s that the Central Otago wine industry took off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EAs the member in charge spoke about, the wine industry is actually very, very important to regions like Central Otago in New Zealand, where we have some 130 or more wineries down there where this legislation that we\u2019re debating tonight actually might be able to be used, which is great. Obviously, we have lots of wonderful varieties, but we are known for our pinot noir. We\u2019re certainly not chardonnay socialists in ACT, but we do like the wide variety of wines which Central Otago delivers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EAlso, Mr Smith talked about the types of submitters we heard from. Again, I was lucky enough to be on the Justice Committee where we actually had a very good, I think, discussion around the issues, and I\u2019ll talk about some of those in a minute. But we did actually hear from a wide variety of different types of wineries. In fact, in Central Otago, a lot of the landscape, the unique geography\u2014the winery or the vineyards, I should say\u2014are actually sometimes quite a long way away from the actual premises where they might be able to do a cellar door. So while it\u2019s interesting to hear about some of Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s possible amendments he\u2019s going to propose later on if this bill continues, we did have a very long debate about trying to get the balance between actually ensuring that this would be used by unique wine growers who might want to have a cellar door and where their actual cellar door, their locality, could actually not be at the vineyard for physical reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EWine tourism is very, very important. Currently, as we discussed in the select committee, if you want to have an on-licence or an off-licence under the current regime, that is actually very complicated. What the member\u2019s done with his very nice bill, quite simply, is actually, I think, address an anomaly in the law where wineries could actually give away the wine\u2014as much as they wanted, in fact\u2014with no controls, but obviously there\u2019s some economic downsides to doing that. So what we\u2019ve tried to do in the select committee was balance some of the concerns with some other practical amendments, which I will talk about in a minute, but actually make this workable for our wine industry who would want to offer tastings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EInterestingly, the 30 millilitres, which is the novel thought\u2014we\u2019ve got a maximum of 35 millilitres proposed in this bill. Thirty millilitres is only six teaspoons, so we\u2019re not actually talking about a lot of wine. And even if you went to the maximum of 35 millilitres which is allowed, you\u2019re only talking seven teaspoons of wine in these tasting samples. I\u00A0know Dr Webb raised some concerns about this. He described it as a loophole; I don\u2019t. But the idea that people who could set up, I suppose, tasting venues\u2014I really don\u2019t think that\u2019s going to be economically viable when your pour size is only 30 millilitres. So, again, I think if people who have got a background in business actually went and did the numbers, the actual cost of opening a special venue to take advantage of this I just don\u2019t think is a concern we need to worry about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI do, again, want to say that I thought we actually had quite a constructive discussion in the select committee. I want to also thank the officials that came and gave us some advice. As we work through some of the changes that we made to the original bill, and I\u00A0think Mr Smith has already acknowledged that\u2014I think he\u2019s acknowledging that we made some improvements or some changes that were sensible. I was worried. Mr Smith was away when we had our last discussion on this bill, and I was hoping we weren\u2019t going\u00A0to ruin it for him, but he was very pleased with the result that we\u2019re now discussing tonight in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EOne of the more subtle changes is that we changed the title slightly to add \u201C(Cellar\u00A0Door Tasting)\u201D, just to make it very explicit that it was actually related to wineries and\u00A0cellar doors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EOne of the other things was that, obviously, we had this long discussion about what a winery is. So we tightened up the definition of \u201Cwinery\u201D and \u201Ccellar door\u201D and did, really, try to relate that to the businesses that are, obviously, growing these grapes and then actually making the grapes into wine and a product that people will come to taste. As we know, New Zealand wines are world renowned. They\u2019re some of the best in the world and, for some varieties, we\u2019re obviously always at the top of the category in the worldwide wine industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve discussed the sample sizes. Again, obviously, originally it had a 40ml maximum pour. We had some back and forth and some debate and arrived at 35ml, which, again, allows for 30ml being the normal pour at a wine tasting at a cellar door, but 35ml allowing for some margin of error. As I say, a teaspoon is the margin of error.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI think, actually, the discussion around snack food was quite interesting, and again, as we dived into that, we thought that was actually a reasonable provision, to require that snack foods be available at these premises. Again, as the member in charge, Stuart Smith, said, this could be a cheese board, but it could also just be a packet of chips or some other food. Again, that\u2019s outlined\u2014what that would look like. Obviously, there are some requirements from local authorities about the kind of licensing you might need for the provision of snack foods, but again, that\u2019s not astronomical. And we thought that that was a good compromise, where for between $300 and $600 every few years, they could be signed off to be serving these snack foods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EThe provision of water: again, I think that was touched on by one of our earlier speakers. Again, that was just a tidy-up. If we had gone ahead as the bill was presented, when you were actually giving away wine samples, you\u2019d have had to provide water, but if you were charging for these samples, you wouldn\u2019t have had to provide water. So that was one we picked up and quickly noted to justice officials, and they added that in. I think, again, that\u2019s a very sensible change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EWe did, again, have some submitters from other industries, like the brewers and distillers, but I\u2019ve got to say that would actually require a different bill and a different debate. Even artisan brewers couldn\u2019t give us a definition of what an artisan beer is. That\u2019s not something that has got a recognised definition yet or some alignment throughout the industry. I\u2019m hoping that maybe Dr Duncan Webb will be advocating for those artisan brewers and maybe for some of the other distillers and other types of alcohol that were mentioned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EFinally, probably as no surprise, ACT supported this bill in its first reading and sending it to the select committee, where, as I said, I think we\u2019ve done some good work, amongst all the parties on that select committee actually, understanding the issues and working with the member in charge and officials to make some improvements. This is obviously going to be, at the appropriate time, a conscience vote. I think it\u2019s now called a personal vote in the Standing Orders, and I\u2019m delighted to say I actually hold proxies for all of the ACT MPs to vote in favour of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI do, again, want to commend the member for his advocacy for this very important industry, for actually taking a really great pro-business stance and allowing them to actually highlight to tourists and New Zealanders the wonderful wine products we have and actually, I think, make things a little bit easier. Again, ACT is all about making things a little bit easier for business and removing regulation or having appropriate regulation, and I think the sensible changes we are proposing here and what we\u2019re putting in place does that. So thank you, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9ae316a94ee4723b288ce5f6b7d3a51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9ae316a94ee4723b288ce5f6b7d3a51\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Cellar Door Tasting) Amendment Bill. This bill is, I must say, common sense, and that\u2019s something New Zealand First supports. Firstly, I\u2019d like to say New Zealand First supports this bill, eight members have given me the proxy vote to be able to vote in favour. So we will be voting eight votes for you to support this bill to go to the next reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe wine industry in New Zealand is a growing industry, and where I\u2019m from in Marlborough, it\u2019s an industry that keeps on growing. We talk now of a $3 billion industry\u2014this is an industry that has put New Zealand and places like Marlborough on the map\u2014a $3 billion industry that is growing, and out of a $3 billion industry, that\u2019s created a massive amount of tourism. Where I\u2019m from, in Marlborough, tourism and wine tourism is a massive thing. People specifically come to visit Marlborough to see the vineyards, to visit the cellar doors. Where I am also, in the heart of Renwick, which is the heart of the wine industry, people come and they go from cellar door to cellar door. It is a thing. On the weekends, my wife and I do it. We go around, and we visit the cellar doors. Generally, we don\u2019t walk; generally, we start on the bike, and we get off to the first cellar door, and we go along and we visit. By about the third cellar door, the bike\u2019s probably put away, and we\u2019re walking along.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EBut the cellar-door concept is such a great thing for tourism, and it\u2019s a great thing for linking up businesses. So, as you go along and you visit different offerings\u2014and those different offerings are growing in the offerings that are put out there; it is a reason to come visit. And it\u2019s not just about international tourism; it\u2019s about local tourism. So everyone comes to visit and has a look around. In Marlborough, for instance, we\u2019ve got over 80 percent of the wine industry, and that\u2019s something we are really, really proud of and something we want to promote. Tourism, as I say, is one of my favourite things; it\u2019s one of my portfolios. And, when you think of it, people come into the Marlborough Sounds, the beautiful Marlborough Sounds\u2014we all know where that is. People come in, they come in on the cruise boats, and they get off in Picton, and sometimes they get on the bus, or they get on to the flyer or on to the train, and away they go, and they go off to the cellar doors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003ESo, once they get to those cellar doors, the offering\u2019s there, but the person, the winery, cannot charge. In most cases, they cannot charge. It\u2019s not common sense. So, all of a sudden, the businesses are giving away their product. And the most ironic thing was that\u2014and we heard this through the submissions\u2014businesses\u2014and for one particular submission, they said their bottles of wine were worth between $70 to $90 and they were giving away eight of them a day. You do the maths on that. Seven, eight, $900\u2014and\u00A0they\u2019re not getting nothing in return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EAnd here\u2019s the rub. The rub about it\u2014[Interruption]. No, no, listen. No, this is the rub about it. Those same people that get off the cruise ship boat\u2014they can\u2019t actually sell a bottle of wine to them, because they can\u2019t take the bottle of wine back on to the cruise boat. So the only thing about that is the person gets the offering, the person gets to go on the trip, but the actual business doesn\u2019t get to make any money out of it. So this bill allows a small charge to cover the cost of that tasting. That, to me, is common sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe Justice Committee was chaired by our leader\u2014by our chairman\u2014James Meager. Over 72 submissions came in, but we heard a number of submissions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c618473afd344daa1218db0d57112ef\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Never heard of him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edb2ea2f67c64261928b7f0511f0a352\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE\u003C/span\u003E: And we\u2019ll be hearing a lot more\u2014hearing a lot more. Those submissions, they were an eye-opener. We heard submissions from large producers; we heard from those little boutique wineries as well. And the majority of those submissions were in support of being able to charge to cover their costs. Red tape\u2014and we\u2019ve heard a lot about red tape on this side of the House. This is getting rid of a silly piece of legislation, something we can change quickly to make businesses\u2014the wineries\u2014more profitable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EIt was really through the election campaign in Kaik\u014Dura that I first heard about this bill, and I heard what Stuart Smith had done. He\u2019d put this in as a member\u2019s bill, and it had been pulled out, and I must say that even while I was campaigning at that stage against Mr Smith, this was well-received. Everywhere we went, he could get up and say, \u201CThis is something that I can achieve\u2014something that will do real good for the industry.\u201D, and I must say that I couldn\u2019t say anything bad about it. It was actually a really good idea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThen hearing the submissions through the Justice Committee and hearing the arguments for and possibly against, it was by far favoured, and we heard in the first\u00A0reading that, I think, it was one of the bills that was the most supported of any bills\u00A0going through a first reading. It was also well supported through those submissions that we heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EWhat we are trying to stop, here, is a free-for-all, so to anybody who would want to vote against this, I would say to you: why would you want to vote for a free-for-all, because that\u2019s actually what you\u2019ve got at the moment. You can turn up\u2014my wife and I on that bike\u2014to the first winery, have one, have two, and there\u2019s no limit. Maybe we\u2019ll get back on that bike and we\u2019ll go to the second winery, the second offering, and you just keep on going and keep on going. There\u2019s no offering of food, no offering of water, but a lot of offering of wine\u2014I\u2019ve already forgotten the bike; I don\u2019t know where the bike is any more\u2014so it makes a lot of sense to stop that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s common-sense, responsible consumption, so we can get responsible consumption, and we can actually charge. It\u2019s actually going to make a situation where when you turn up, you\u2019re actually going to think a lot more about what you are purchasing and what you are tasting, because you are going to be charged for it. Also, there are going to be the offerings of food and the offerings of water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EAlso, another thing we heard through the submissions was the size of the samples, and it was quite surprising to hear that the size of the samples ended up being quite contentious. I think, originally in the bill, it was a 40-millilitre pour, and through hearing about that and through maybe the views of some members on the other side of the House, it has been reduced to 35 millilitres. A standard pour of wine is 30 millilitres, and we heard from the sponsor of the bill, Mr Smith, that the people have wine glasses especially for the wine as it\u2019s poured, so that that\u2019s done in a controlled way. So 35 millilitres, 40 millilitres\u2014to me, that doesn\u2019t make a lot of difference there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe provision of having the snack food there is something, again, that is common sense. Having provisions of water, and giving people water and provisions of food, just makes sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EI think also that some of the definitions\u2014through the Justice Committee, we heard about the definition, and another member of the House said that he is worried about the definition. But I think that the definition gives enough ability to control who can\u00A0sell and who can\u2019t, and so that has also been well thought through, I believe, by the Justice Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThere were some differing views, and I think we\u2019re going to hear this as this proceeds through the House. We did hear from the brewers around craft beers, and that is something that has to be dealt with in a different bill. It can\u2019t be dealt with here. We\u2019ve had a bill with this scope, and we\u2019ve heard about the scope through the Justice Committee. The scope here is not about bringing in other providers\u2014not about bringing in craft beers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003ESo I think what we have in front of us and the changes that we\u2019ve made through the Justice Committee are common sense. New Zealand First will support this, and I commend this bill to the House. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223bfd45ffb0c94d3686ba99ec01c39dfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call Ricardo Men\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bfd45ffb0c94d3686ba99ec01c39dfd\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u00E9ndez March. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori have indicated to me that they won\u2019t be taking their call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00224f3cdd3b49c04095998321924b5601fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f3cdd3b49c04095998321924b5601fc\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Fair enough. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. So we are supporting the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Cellar Door Tasting) Amendment Bill. I think there are members\u2019 bills that are discrete and ambitious\u2014they can be both\u2014and this is this at least meets one of those criteria; it\u2019s a discrete bill. As a former duty manager on an on-licensed premises, I think it\u2019s worth acknowledging the role that people at the front line, who actually work at premises where alcohol is\u00A0sold, play to minimise the harm that alcohol causes. And I think this bill is actually a\u00A0good example of acknowledging that a drug can cause harm but that prohibition isn\u2019t\u00A0the answer. Rather, sensible regulation is the way forward. In some ways, I wish the\u00A0arguments that have been used to describe how we regulate alcohol applied to other\u00A0drugs as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EBut, in relation to this bill, I think we do want to acknowledge the sensible changes that have been brought forward to make sure that this is a workable bill and that, actually, the health of our communities is taken into account. I think, particularly, the way to work around having the provision of snacks and water goes a long way towards that, because it\u2019s not just about how this bill can benefit businesses but how we can protect staff against intoxicated members of the public who, ultimately, would be engaging at wineries. The provision of snacks and water actually create a protective factor as well for the front-line staff who will be working at these wineries. So these are sensible additions to the bill that we do support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think there are some worthwhile concerns that were raised around who could be caught up in this bill. I acknowledge that the Justice Committee, obviously, has made it really clear that some of the retailers that could be captured are not intended to be captured. I think this is one of those things that we\u2019ll just have to keep an eye on and see how it works. If we need to continue doing regulation, then we may just have to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAt the end of the day, I think it\u2019s important to acknowledge, yes, wineries play a big role in our economy. It\u2019s been a growing sector for a while, and we do have a huge number of staff who, I think, deserve to be protected. So I just want to commend the work of the select committee to find ways to create amendments to protect those staff members. So we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u00228bf82223fe9a4444b837530956c542b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bf82223fe9a4444b837530956c542b9\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I\u2019d like to begin my contribution tonight as we enter what was just described as the graveyard shift\u2014or the circus shift\u2014with the acknowledgement of Stuart Smith for his bill. We had the new co-leader of the Green Party give him a promotion to \u201Cthe honourable Stuart Smith\u201D, and I think that\u2019s the closest we\u2019re going to come to a blue-green coalition for a couple of years. So I\u2019ll take that, as we can, as a start there, Stuart. No, congratulations. Like the member Greg O\u2019Connor, this is your second member\u2019s bill that you\u2019ve brought forward to the House, so I\u2019d just like to say congratulations, but, please, give someone else a chance next time as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EActually, like Mr O\u2019Connor, I\u2019d like to acknowledge your contribution to the committee throughout the consideration of this bill. You yourself brought a range of lived experience not only as a consumer but also as a producer from one of the best wine regions around the country. Actually, we had Jamie Arbuckle on the committee as well from that region\u2014from Marlborough\u2014and Todd Stephenson with us too. We had many, many submitters appear before us from Marlborough and from Central Otago. It was a little bit of a love-in at one point. Then, of course, I would like to acknowledge Celia Wade-Brown, who joined us for a portion of the consideration as well and who was, of course, from the Wairarapa, which is another well-known wine-growing region\u2014home of the mighty Mike Butterick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ECan I acknowledge, also, what has now become known as the \u201Cbusy and effective\u201D Justice Committee, and I thank the committee for their hard work in taking two bills off our workflow. But we still have 10 on the go, and I\u2019m looking forward to looking to Tracey McLellan\u2019s bill in a couple of weeks and seeing if we can add another one to our workflow as well. It\u2019s interesting because I sat on the Education and Workforce Committee this morning, subbing in, and they had their very first departmental report to consider for the session. So it was a bit like a proud dad seeing his kids take the training wheels off their bike as we plough through item number 10 on our legislative agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d just like to acknowledge the Justice Committee. It is a busy committee. We enjoy the work. I think we do work very, very well together as a committee\u2014representatives from all parties\u2014and I think you can see in this bill that we\u2019ve done a decent amount of work to get it to this stage. The member himself acknowledged that members\u2019 bills will often come to select committees with limited resources behind them in how they\u2019re produced, and it\u2019s our job as a committee to work together to try and find the ways that we can to improve them. That\u2019s the important scrutiny function that select committees perform, so I just wanted to acknowledge that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EFinally, can I acknowledge the contribution before from the Greens co-leader, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, who indicated that the Greens would be supporting the bill. I thank her for that. I was curious as to why she was supporting this, because there\u2019s been some, I think, quite reasonable apprehension from the Greens in the past around alcohol legislation, and the harm minimisation requirements need to be in that. Then I looked at the back page of the departmental report and saw that the Waiheke Wine Growers Association had made a very powerful submission. So it goes to show that submitters, big and small, from all over the country, can make an influence on how we consider pieces of legislation like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EFinally, can I just acknowledge the officials from the Ministry of Justice. It is important to acknowledge them, especially when we have members\u2019 bills. They are giving up their time, off the Government\u2019s legislative agenda, to support us and be our advisers through that process. They provided us with very clear advice on some relatively tricky issues\u2014in fact, some which we, as Dr Webb alluded to earlier on, haven\u2019t quite come to a conclusion on about whether or not we\u2019ve reached the right drafting around some of those potential loopholes. But I do acknowledge the clear and consistent work that they gave to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019d like to talk briefly about the purpose of the bill. Like most members\u2019 bills, the purpose is very simple: it is to make it easier for winery cellar doors to charge for samples\u2014and that\u2019s simply it. Actually, I wanted to talk about the scoping issue that has come up in the select committee report, because\u2014and we had a bit of back and forth at length about this with the member in charge. But what was the purpose of the bill? The member was very clear: the purpose of him bringing this bill forward was to address an issue faced by winery cellar-door operators and the issues that they face with the complicated licensing regime under the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThere were submissions from other players in the alcohol industry\u2014I think the Brewers Association made some very, very good points about whether the bill could be expanded to include the likes of your craft beer brewers or your gin distilleries, which could also possibly open up their own version of a cellar door. But, for us, in the majority, on the Justice Committee, our view was very clearly that the member brought forward this bill with the intention of supporting wine-cellar door operators. We sought some advice from the Clerk\u2019s team, who indicated that amendments like that would be out of scope, so we came to a conclusion that while perhaps it was worthy of consideration of expansion\u2014and members are entitled to put Amendment Papers up as well in the committee stage\u2014it possibly may be a better option for another member\u2019s bill. Maybe it\u2019s third time lucky for Stuart Smith or Greg O\u2019Connor. I\u2019m sure a bill like that would be well and truly graciously received by committees such as the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ECan I move on to just some of our submitters. As mentioned before, we had 72 submissions; 12 of them appeared in person. Quite, I think, uniquely for a bill, the vast majority of submissions were for, or were by, or on behalf of, organisations. Quite often with the submission process, you\u2019ll get a good fifty-fifty mix of organisations or individuals, or if it\u2019s a particular issue, you might get mostly individuals. But this showed that this was an issue that was important to many operators across the country, large and small. And that was from across the board: wineries, hospitality, alcohol harm reduction advocates, and also a couple of district councils, the Waitaki District Council and the Rangit\u012Bkei District Council. Read into that what you will about members Miles Anderson and Suze Redmayne and what they get up to in their spare time, and the councils there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo, finally, in the brief amount of time that I have left before we might rise to go off and do something else, I want to talk about the substantial changes that have been offered by the select committee. The first one goes to that scoping issue and actually is a change to the title of the bill. There was a recommendation to change it from \u201CSale and Supply of Alcohol (Cellar Door Tasting)\u201D to \u201CSale and Supply of Alcohol (Winery Cellar Door Tasting)\u201D to reflect the intention of the member in that bill. And I think that\u2019s a pretty sensible change to make. Just for a notice, I got relatively confused because, when I picked up the bill, it had the old title on the front of the bill. So I now have learnt that that won\u2019t change until it passes its second reading. So, all going well, later on, in a couple of weeks, perhaps, when we come back, we\u2019ll be able to get that change through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard about some of the definitions around \u201Cwinery\u201D and about defining a winery as a person whose business includes producing and selling grape wine products or having had them produced on their behalf. There were some concerns that that definition would be overly inclusive and could incorporate or unintentionally capture bottle store operators and supermarkets. So the committee had resolved to change the definition of a \u201Cwinery\u201D and, in fact, provide for a specific definition of \u201Cwinery cellar door\u201D, so to limit the ability for bottle stores and supermarkets to try and take advantage of this law change. But, as mentioned previously, I suspect it\u2019s very unlikely to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESome of those changes being proposed about kilometre radius restrictions just get us into a situation where we become overly prescriptive as legislators. I think that\u2019s a good change because it solves some of those problems that some of the small operators brought to us, which was that they don\u2019t necessarily have their wine cellar door on the same property where they produce their wine\u2014it may be in a different vineyard, or it may be 3 kilometres or 4 kilometres down the road. So this helps put them on a level playing field, the same as everyone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI wanted to talk about the sample-size issue, and Jamie Arbuckle covered it pretty well. There was an original recommendation from officials to reduce the sample size down to about 30 millilitres, but we as a committee took that to, basically, incorporate no margin of error, really. If you have a strict 30 millilitre pour, once you\u2019re a millilitre over, you\u2019re strictly in breach of the Act. We don\u2019t want to be trapping people or getting them in unintended trouble. So we thought 35 millilitres was a pretty good compromise. It gives you that teaspoon of margin of error, as Todd Stephenson helpfully referred to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EIn the last few amendments around the provision of snack food, there was a question, there, where we asked the officials to go back for some advice. While we were happy to consider and accept that provision as being part of minimising the harm from alcohol and improving host responsibility obligations, there were some concerns that this might put an imposition of cost on the operators who don\u2019t already provide food. So officials went away and did some good looking around for us and came back and informed us that that, in their view, would be a cost of about $300 to $600 every two to three years. We thought that was a pretty reasonable cost for the benefit that this might open up for these operators, so we were happy to accept that recommendation too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ELook, I think that\u2019s bordering on enough from us for tonight. I look forward to the remaining contributions in this debate. It may well be the first time that the class of 2023 needs to see a personal vote in a couple of weeks, so I\u2019m very much looking forward to that. But I congratulate the member Stuart Smith, and I look forward to its passage through to the committee stage, third reading, and into law forthwith. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022235e9d98b64a4a059246246000106623\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022235e9d98b64a4a059246246000106623\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair. The House is adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202404109fad63b2bf054d1388b4a63f0fc21b0d000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"