"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002200d8718874904687aee590dede399678\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 1 MAY 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224172c40843c54fafb914ef47737d2a30\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 1 MAY 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e0a07c57152463483410d08c759b2c6\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e847f3e5c244dbaaceddf8b46891ee5\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5466ed10bae40109cfeec7dd128ebe2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5466ed10bae40109cfeec7dd128ebe2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226490295b9f6e42faa712ccf795de6680\u0022\u003EResignations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f05f1f8ae444ca6b2b160a618603ce4\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw, Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002213b8ef52c4cf43d1a98fc35d230c9775\u0022\u003E the Hon\u00A0James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00228207ae9912534ac594b57ed2927d1f86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228207ae9912534ac594b57ed2927d1f86\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I wish to advise the House that I have received a letter from, resigning his seat in the House, with effect at 11.59 p.m. on Sunday, 5\u00A0May 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222494d07b665845c59403c06eeaed6de4\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0e8b34bfefd46a0870fe81ba6ba300f\u0022\u003EUnited States of America\u2014American Council of Young Political Leaders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002277038813e4094544b9489745f9e846ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277038813e4094544b9489745f9e846ef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that members would wish to join me in welcoming visiting delegates from the American Council of Young Political Leaders on their exchange here in New Zealand. They are present in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d46b9dd7e941471db66d2f9bf626b676\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002252c10f77f81b450f9e2337db411017be\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002205000eb862be4e7292cdadc275a22040\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205000eb862be4e7292cdadc275a22040\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No petitions have been delivered to the Clerk. No papers have been delivered for presentation. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022b29be6262864477caf78f06fa6052f4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b29be6262864477caf78f06fa6052f4d\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on the Fair Trading (Gift Card Expiry) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Standard Estimates Questionnaire 2024/25.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224545a1d2e9ca4c55a7bdc2e2b6dad682\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224545a1d2e9ca4c55a7bdc2e2b6dad682\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for second reading and the report on the Standard Estimates Questionnaire is set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac29fb4deae84120898188eafd42556a\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002212665d6a2ff5403e852b9f048eb1d10a\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7d34dc4cc064bf2ac8b5e01a04e8bce\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022beea72b95bc94bd19950920b113676e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022beea72b95bc94bd19950920b113676e3\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022f93cf95cdd0940c5b6ee883cc58b40f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f93cf95cdd0940c5b6ee883cc58b40f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. In particular, I stand by the Government\u2019s \u201Cphone away for the day\u201D policy, which is so popular with parents and students and schools\u2014and with great feedback from people like the Hornby High\u00A0School head boy, Khush Patel, who said the ban \u201Chas helped students focus more\u00A0academically\u201D. Cameron Stone, the principal of Stratford High School in the mighty\u00A0Whanganui electorate, said, \u201CIt\u2019s an awesome, overwhelming success for us.\u201D I\u00A0have to say, I am proud to lead a Government that makes the changes that we need to ensure our kids are well set up for a great future, because we\u2019re getting our country back on track. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227471fc2854974af6994845e589141650\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Wait on\u2014just wait on. It\u2019s worth noting that when you watch this replay on TV, the person speaking is clearly audible, with a bit of mumble in the background, so most of that is denying the House an answer, as opposed to the general public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a29f95d0e0d04d4bb985e3ec438bc755\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I suspect there would have been a little less noise had half of the Government benches not been looking at their phones during the Prime Minister\u2019s answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd3fee14590a4dc18568793cc709e699\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s an interesting point but not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236cd6deafc0f49918899eda044f82688\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. If the House didn\u2019t hear it, I\u2019m happy to repeat it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022500210b0e8e44b6d8dc7d9e6ef4ce230\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for your generous offer. I\u2019m not interested in hearing it again, so can we please have the supplementary from the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8a144e4d7f6407cb2bae8a53fb6c2ea\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: What will the average weekly cost be to families, due to the\u00A0Government\u2019s decision to no longer fund half-price public transport for people under the\u00A0age of 25?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4d2c0aed8ab4e68af357afddda69127\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: It depends on their circumstances, but if the member would like to put the question in writing, we\u2019ll get him a proper answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2d0dc1fe95b41b0a19b452944fefb59\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why isn\u2019t he aware that, using the National Party\u2019s own tax cut calculator, someone in their early 20s that takes the bus each day and earns the average wage could be worse off by more than $70 a fortnight as a result of that change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbedd95d50b84cd9b8420fa84fffa9dd\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look, I thank the member for their concern about that constituent, but what I\u2019d say is that help is on the way, because we are going to deliver low and middle income tax relief to hard-working Kiwis. These are the people that the Labour Party used to care about but have long forgotten.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e090c06708064f75a29aefedffa219d7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that parents will now need to pay more to get their under-13s to school as a result of that change, while his Government is also threatening to cut the school lunch programme that could see those same parents $33 a week, per child, worse off?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2ab4190e5e1438c89d0567564c32394\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just say to that member, again, help is on the way to low and middle income New Zealanders doing it tough in a cost of living crisis created by that member\u2019s previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c18b4b6410542799bade5687d01c5c5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Prime Minister as to whether people in Auckland would be catching the bus each day if light rail had been built as Labour promised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022174cdf6aba894c9a9d3a3112fca9ef8f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s one of those interventions that is interesting but not worthy of a\u00A0question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c851a69b25d640e1b9677cc252539e91\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s an excellent question. Can I answer that question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb06d6c5aad14a7eab605c0c6ae23b62\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, unless you\u2019ve got responsibility for the failure of a previous policy, I don\u2019t think so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a8c6d29585940139ec634861f30fdfa\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Will the $2.9 billion of tax cuts for landlords result in lower rents, given Trade Me reporting that rents have surged 8.3 percent since last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d136cef2d53a4dd9916a1959cd8406ea\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is committed to putting downward pressure on rents, and we are bringing the brightline test back from 10 to two years; we\u2019re making sure we restore interest deductibility and we get the balance of laws right between tenants and landlords. But what I\u2019d say to that member is we are not going to see a $170 per week increase in rents, as we saw under his administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227663d8c61c79452d9ddcfb882c326691\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: So will rents decrease as a result of this Government\u2019s tax cuts for landlords?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caf9abc2adc440039af1f8887996d0e4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: The series of actions we\u2019re taking in the rental market will put downward pressure on rents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b4670e22094ddba35498533ae8b810\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: What does he think best reflects his promised laser-like commitment to tackling the cost of living: higher public transport costs, his Government\u2019s new drivers tax, higher costs for prescriptions, higher rents, higher fuel prices, higher rates, lower pay increases, or higher unemployment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2cfcbbb61864b7bbf115b86e3babd0d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I can tell you there is a series of things that this Government is doing to focus on lowering the cost of living and lowering inflation. We\u2019ve got the Reserve Bank focused on a single target of fighting inflation, we\u2019ve actually made sure we\u2019ve introduced our Family Boost policy to give families that are struggling with childcare costs some support and subsidy, and we\u2019re making sure that we\u2019re going to give tax relief in this Budget for low and middle income working New\u00A0Zealanders. We\u2019re serious about lowering inflation, and isn\u2019t it good that inflation hit 4\u00A0percent\u2014the lowest it\u2019s been for three years\u2014we\u2019re on our way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221cef9aa6cb53424aa5c9a62d9d8f2aed\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022072515a0d90d4d1dba6cf0b4f0e143ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022072515a0d90d4d1dba6cf0b4f0e143ae\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Justice: What evidence, if any, does she have that reintroducing three-strikes legislation will reduce crime in Aotearoa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7b719f62a6d4778ae0f1483e15c70e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7b719f62a6d4778ae0f1483e15c70e2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Ministry of Justice has previously produced an evidence brief suggesting that reintroducing the three-strikes legislation in New Zealand has the potential to reduce crime. US studies on similar laws have shown reductions in both minor and serious violent crimes, along with decreased arrest rates among offenders with previous strikes. The tougher sentences for offending that this regime will introduce for second- and third-strike offenders will ultimately keep serious repeat violent and sexual offenders off the street and prevent them from victimising more New Zealanders, including M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071556ffbc9a48e9a0cf3735863b540d\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: What is the response to the 2018 report by then Prime Minister Bill English which called out Aotearoa\u2019s high rates of incarceration for being based on dogma, not evidence, and criticised policies such as three strikes for being a retributive rather than restorative approach to crime based on unsupported claims that prisons can solve the problem of crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd79511c3be647d78ae1765bde8533e0\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: My response to that report is that we have made constructive changes to the regime that will be implemented to ensure that those serious repeat violent sexual offenders are off our streets and our communities are safe. The reason for that is because this Government is committed to restoring law and order to our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7f560a3929940498efb8a6fb36cd1bb\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept the findings from research from the United States in 2022, where this law was modelled from, that showed three strikes has no measurable deterrent effect, that it disproportionately locked up African Americans, and that it had no impact on lowering crime rates at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff1924cf804544e6b794686d1ee2f3e2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: The Ministry of Justice has previously produced an evidence brief which cited US studies showing similar three-strike laws have reduced serious violent crimes and reduced arrest rates for offenders who had received a first or second strike. I think what is really important here is that we have taken learnings from the previous regime and we will be introducing a new regime which goes about making sure that our communities are kept safe. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e565432495d44a982581bfdbaf5d0e9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me\u2014just wait for the quiet. Away you go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f08557d1eb24126ac2ed3a75d6a977a\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. What is your response to the unequivocal majority, the 99 percent of submitters at select committee who represented most of the law associations of this country, that this bill is not fit to be passed into the House, should be done away with, and something new put in place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224deacc2a633544c5a4ed42853d2be2b5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I invite those people, when they actually see the bill once it\u2019s\u00A0produced, to use the select committee process to give us their new version of what they\u00A0think about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273af9b2e65254777a9159d2ab459f676\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Have we seen an\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b351a27b34db44cda1c651a0d673946f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, wait on. Questions will be asked in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022988b8237378b499bba59112a97f60956\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b2d9a5631e34cae962580b770d47305\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, no\u2014the question can be audible, but everyone else can be\u00A0silent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcf48638b8414fdfb3d2222880a73fcb\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! My sign language is not very good. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208706d2b39de42739b03e9e20a2ef2a4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, just wait. We\u2019ll go quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dadea0b90e541ec879b22fb6b01f6f3\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Have we seen an increase in violent crime justifying the need for\u00A0a\u00A0new three-strikes regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262336cd0a6944af8aea3db6810a79ec2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, we have. Since Labour came into power, we have seen a 33 percent increase in violent crime, resulting in an increased number of victimisations. The new and improved three-strikes regime will hold serious repeat violent and sexual offenders to account, get them off the street, and prevent more Kiwis from becoming victims of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb64896f8cb04f1b9959eea50b04a7bb\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister\u2019s intention with the three-strikes policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cce9a9377a28407caefdf0d91ef535f3\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: To restore law and order by getting repeat violent and sexual offenders off the streets. We\u2019re sending a message to the criminals: think twice, because if you commit a violent or sexual offence, you\u2019re going to be going away for longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225019b28751d245fbb85e5220b04adf90\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the Minister and the Government\u2019s position that the greatest proportion of victims of violent crime are M\u0101ori, and, rather than make a sociological example, we\u2019re going to do something about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f896efc3eaa442e870cc61bbe2c02ff\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Regardless of who a person is, if they commit a serious sexual or violent offence they are going to be locked up. But what we do need to take into account is the disproportionate portion of M\u0101ori and Pasifika people who are victims of crime. It\u2019s very disappointing to see representatives from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori not even speaking about the victims of crime but more about cuddling and cotton-wooling those criminals instead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002279514b6d5bf840689d457ee22ee17e5a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022 data-id=\u00220d5018d38fe94888b0d2042e99df6cf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d5018d38fe94888b0d2042e99df6cf7\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What challenges has she faced in putting together this year\u2019s Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e20e1f4c554541e0b83851219f108487\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e20e1f4c554541e0b83851219f108487\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Well, aside from the state of the economy that was left to us\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022930300ea8822491fa177325020f2ca45\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on; I think just tone it down just a little bit. Actually, quite a bit\u2014quite a bit. And similarly over here. That\u2019s right, the person in front of you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022404acae5c67d44f7954b8ccb48631307\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: As I pointed out in the Budget Policy Statement, one of the biggest challenges for this year\u2019s Budget is that the previous Government left behind\u00A0multiple initiatives with time-limited funding that was about to expire. At the half-year update in December, Treasury identified nine instances of these fiscal cliffs\u00A0where, in each case, the costs of continuing funding were $100 million more over\u00A0the forecast period. Fiscal cliffs made the future fiscal track look superficially better, but this practice was misleading and left any incoming Government facing very difficult\u00A0funding decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ade0493d4400491ba17613455ef25ab2\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: What is the biggest fiscal cliff the Government has faced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202746e60f10c47d08f27a75dcd7b27f9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The biggest fiscal cliff in Budget 2024 was time-limited funding for Pharmac. The previous Government gave Pharmac additional funding of $350 million for the 2023-24 fiscal year to purchase new medicines and widen access to some that were already funded, but this expires on 30 June and there was no funding set aside for future years. My colleague David Seymour announced on Monday that Budget 2024 will extend this additional funding and, critically, make it permanent. That will be welcome news to people who rely on these medicines, but we have had to find the $1.77\u00A0billion cost of this from within our operating allowance because the previous Government did not put one cent towards it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c77bba4a9924556962e6696e1ec1ec0\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that official advice to Ministers from Pharmac is that had the pre-existing budgeting been applied, Pharmac would have needed to de-list medicines that New Zealanders had every expectation of receiving but had no money put aside for under the previous Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d5543df14f43b7930cfd2211d96a4f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, I can confirm that and I will recall vividly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246402dd5598a4c79bcc044bef36a2613\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ve just been contemplating the member\u2019s question. He\u2019s actually asking a hypothetical question about what would have happened under a re-elected Government; what a re-elected Government may have done. The current Minister has no responsibility for what an alternative Government may have done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8d441c2634f4f0f967c172a917d32f8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A very good point. I was actually listening to the question and starting to think along those lines. But I think the question could be asked in a different way, and as long as it\u2019s relatively brief, how about giving that a go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260c2b07dd06148fcb76e05a94f5bbf93\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: May I speak to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf032312393c4a6096227ed0c2d1a9f7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve just ruled on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ffab9dcce3749dababc0e776937bc57\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I may be able to clarify the intention behind the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221979f79a2744a91aec6c1631d36fac5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, have another go at the question, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022604745edf2404bf5b423e24f9f02c1bd\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: With pleasure. Can she confirm that under the fiscal track that was set for this Government after it assumed office, it received advice from Pharmac that if it didn\u2019t fill in the fiscal cliff for medicine funding, it would have to de-list medicines that New Zealanders relied upon, because the fiscal track, the budgeting that this Government inherited, had not put money aside to pay for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a58937c3d4274eab8148d136b19d3ce5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. The question was good up to \u201Cadvice\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a39063b8c04c4e95b59eebf724f1f90b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: One of the meetings I will recall vividly for the rest of my political career is one that I attended with Minister Seymour, where we asked health officials and Pharmac officials how New Zealand could possibly be in a position where they were saying to us that unless we found $1.77 billion, they would be forced to start de-listing essential medicines upon which New Zealand relied. I remember that meeting vividly because what I saw in the eyes of their officials was what I felt, which was abject horror at the situation the previous Government was prepared to leave Pharmac in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d2f61020aaf407d930abc741de65c84\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: What reaction has the Minister seen to this announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298d47445871e4b988ce1b5f1cfbf56b4\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have seen one commentator\u2014who should know better\u2014describe this $1.77 billion commitment to continue funding much-needed medicines as \u201Cfiscal jiggery-pokery\u201D. Personally, I would reserve the term \u201Cfiscal jiggery-pokery\u201D to describe the practice of funding medicines for one year only and then taking it away again. I think that is being highly misleading to New Zealand, and I would expect much better from the Labour health spokesperson, Ayesha Verrall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251b05640183a4fe99dc695e374638a10\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder whether you could indicate to us where the ministerial responsibility for that last answer lies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d04ffaba20741deb6af068ea7f28958\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you have to go to the question itself, which was\u2014sorry, it just slips my mind for a minute. But the response\u2014I\u2019ll tell you what, I\u2019m going to have to look at it afterwards. Sorry about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f56dbf07a58042d6b1845eed171a6e40\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker, the question was absolutely in order. Ministers aren\u2019t responsible for the questions that they are asked; they are absolutely responsible for the answers that they give. Nicola Willis has a repeated history of giving answers that fly directly in the face of rulings that you have given repeatedly since you took up your tenure as Speaker\u2014but she\u2019s also very clever because she puts the dig in right in the last few words. I think there should be some ability for the member who\u2019s the subject of the answer to ask questions in response to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286cc3c4e53574f67b0e184e96c7fd8e8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a novel idea and, actually, is, interestingly, the whole purpose of question time. So the Opposition will organise their supplementaries to, obviously, give effect to that! But what I can say is that I do look at question time. It\u2019s not an easy thing to, day after day, watch question time twice. But I do so where there are, particularly, questions that are under question from the Opposition\u2014largely to see just where the lines are of straying beyond being able to refer to something that related to the previous Government, that was inherited, as opposed to a straight-out political attack. I\u2019ll continue to do that and I\u2019ll look at this particular question in that regard. But because we\u2019re all going to play nice, Ayesha Verrall can have one extra supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022713d13a383d94d6392388564b79ddd9b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fb41182b6c24d67af2e76e9b51f896d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014that\u2019s how we roll here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a692d2317aeb48b4b0a631ddfc3af8ae\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. If you\u2019re going to go away and consider this matter, could I just suggest that one of the marvellous things about a democracy is robust debate. If people aren\u2019t prepared to put other sides of the story or hear other people out\u2014they just want to shout in the way that\u2019s happening now\u2014then this Parliament will deteriorate very rapidly. It\u2019s got a long tradition of people being able to put their points at question time or in their speech time, and they\u2019ve got a whole lot of sensitive people over there that need to just harden up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0a2abc70ae84c4cb0752f11ee78fce9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that advice; I\u2019m sure the whole House will take it on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fae9c44118e468a8fb55df21a061277\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Can she assure the House, given her outrage over what she describes as \u201Cfiscal cliffs\u201D, that all items in her Budget will be baselined?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215735c50a5a34dae83d22a0e12801ebc\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you for the question. In addition to filling in the vast fiscal cliffs left to us by the previous Government, in our Budget there will be very few cases where funding will be time limited. The difference\u2014and they could learn from the answer\u2014is that in those cases, a review is being undertaken before Cabinet makes a permanent decision. We will be upfront and transparent about these decisions. There will be no hidden fiscal cliffs established for a future Government to deal with, and there will never be, under this Government\u2019s watch, a fiscal cliff left for essential medicines\u2014shame on you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270db0dd0da1248a7bf3f97be75476940\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to pull her up on that? She said \u201Cshame on you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276001311135041bdbf6e89b2a909fdbb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but you forget I\u2019m Catholic, so I\u2019m very guilty all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022868e5e83d2f942d4b69bdf281954e461\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: Will Budget 2024 establish any fiscal cliffs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be0180a853504460b86b28f24a581b19\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I thank the member for her question. It seems that her and Ayesha Verrall are great minds thinking alike today. As I said, we are going to be upfront and transparent in our Budget. There will be important cases where we will ensure that a review is undertaken before we commit to baseline funding\u2014for the very good reason that, as I\u2019ve said to this House many times, we are a Government that is\u00A0committed to fiscal discipline on value for money and ensuring that where we commit\u00A0New Zealand taxpayer money permanently into the future, we can first assure New\u00A0Zealanders that we know that dollar is going to its best purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e172517c45f74409ab45150b122f4771\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u002203386f615a5b42a4accbc5c91602d591\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203386f615a5b42a4accbc5c91602d591\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does she stand by her commitment to deliver meaningful tax cuts for New Zealanders; if so, will she guarantee that every New Zealander will be better off under her Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00222aa59c378f704645843f0c7589eb5a31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222aa59c378f704645843f0c7589eb5a31\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first part of the question, yes. In answer to the second part, many factors affect New Zealanders\u2019 wellbeing, not just a Government Budget, which the member seems to imply is the only way New Zealanders can be better off. I can tell the member, however, that we will be putting in more money to improve health services in this Budget. We will be putting in more money to improve education and we will be putting in more money to strengthen law and order. Better public services and tax relief for hard-working Kiwis will help improve people\u2019s wellbeing and help them get ahead. But there is a catch. New Zealanders who commit violent crime\u2014they\u2019ll be worse off under our Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243071efe2947414a967b56f127a6e1cf\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How will the additional 12,000 New Zealanders who are now unemployed, according to today\u2019s unemployment figures, benefit from the tax cuts\u00A0and be better off in Budget 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249dd8b3c712a4d32a3f5616225e0e473\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: All New Zealanders benefit from a strong economy, and we as a Government are embarking on a significant project to rebuild an economy that has been drastically weakened by a period of prolonged, very high inflation that has eroded people\u2019s real incomes and purchasing power, that has led to a significant increase in interest rates, that is in turn leading to four of the past five quarters having been in recession and very challenging economic conditions. That is the reality we are faced with. It is difficult for many New Zealanders. Our job is to get on with delivering the plan to rebuild our economy and that is what our Budget will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022781ee82b277f47f188d7045da3f28264\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Will the increasing number of New Zealanders who are struggling with increases in insurance premiums and higher rates that are significantly outstripping inflation be better off in Budget 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b27b4f379d1e4c7bb83d0c30ea71e0c2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: This is a novel new policy from the Labour Party today. They\u2019re going to be subsidising everyone\u2019s insurance bill, I see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f688d3f0d6184603b5412160a3d3c9ec\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022841abb99b2144cd1a2826eec5a6f3e22\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It is an out of order answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022256b06216f2942ee85d992fd96649ba0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: It was a completely legitimate question and the Minister should actually answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da4f11d8f18c42e7a5bf643ecfb50ad1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, and I think without referring to another party\u2019s policy would be a\u00A0good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225786dd33b08640feab58abb5e9cab8b2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, it is the position of our Government that the best thing that we can do is allow people to keep more of their own money so that they can make choices about how they spend that money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022378f66e98e104b1d8095dc35b13d40e0\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Will she be the only New Zealander better off by saving her own job ahead of the jobs of front-line workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022391a4db1d93b425289f74f4aa35053fb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c37d7412134b49e597640d0cde6ee594\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019ve got to say\u2014just a minute. You\u2019ve got to say\u2014in the line of your requests about answers, that question probably is the opposite mirror image of it. But if the Minister wants to come in, she may; otherwise it\u2019s not necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210652a9531e34aac9d6a9885b0e25b73\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m surprised by that question. I\u2019ve actually been giving the Opposition member the benefit of the doubt. That question was well beneath her and I\u2019m not going to honour it with an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afb8e0c3d9bc4000aa182a7d8f7227c8\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she understand that a Minister of Finance\u2014she is responsible for the choices she makes that are causing these deteriorating economic conditions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210c24c28cea64a5b920ac506301dee7d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I fully and solemnly understand the responsibility we in this Government have for the choices we make. And I would point that member to the colleagues either side of her on that front bench, who actively chose not to adjust tax thresholds, even while inflation ate away at people\u2019s incomes, who actively chose to pour fuel on the inflation fire while a cost of living crisis surged, who actively chose to spend money on a TVNZ and RNZ merger when New Zealanders couldn\u2019t pay for their groceries. Take responsibility for your own choices as a party and I\u2019ll take responsibility for mine every day of the week. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ab7702126cd49d69186be1d764c40c2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Are we ready?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eef840cb78ac4031a112927420acd58b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014RMA Reform\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc5cfd37276243fc9b7b16bc6665bf87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc5cfd37276243fc9b7b16bc6665bf87\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for RMA Reform: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that \u201CNo projects have been selected yet for the fast-track process\u201D; if so, will he commit to providing an opportunity for public scrutiny of the projects when they are selected for Part A of Schedule 2 of the Fast-track Approvals Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca6b3c7cab5e42a3a720d2e68c4f151c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca6b3c7cab5e42a3a720d2e68c4f151c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E In response to the first part of the question, yes. As we\u2019ve said a number of times, both publicly and in the\u00A0House, no projects have been selected for the fast-track process. Cabinet has made\u00A0a\u00A0decision to set up a thorough and independent panel process for the selection of projects\u00A0to be included in the schedule of the bill. In regard to the second part of the question, the\u00A0public currently has the ability to submit to the select committee considering the\u00A0bill.\u00A0Parliament will have the opportunity to consider the projects in the schedule of\u00A0the\u00A0bill. The member might be interested to know we have based the process on\u00A0the\u00A0COVID-19 fast-track legislation introduced by the previous Government, in which Cabinet delegated to David Parker decision making for what projects were to be listed\u00A0in\u00A0the bill upon introduction. These decisions were made without any public consultation\u00A0prior to the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7c520ce745d40478166dd73a561034d\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received any advice about options for providing public scrutiny of projects to be listed in the legislation, and, if so, what was that advice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282561f5286dc488d982ff69b0ba14abb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Not currently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022975d88dbfeac484480110809d9b17dca\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement \u201CWe\u2019re open to constructive changes on the fast-track regime to ameliorate some of the concerns that people have\u201D,\u00A0and, if so, will he support sending the bill back to the select committee to allow\u00A0for scrutiny of projects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221aaaf6cf22da492ba319483647b8f229\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. And, in relation to the second part of the question, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8c17e5ff23a43ceb1c12586158ea12c\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Did he check with any of his Cabinet colleagues about potential or perceived conflicts of interest before deciding to send the letter on the fast-track bill on 3 April?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229405f624d32347029c3b1542b40b593c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the member, like others in her party, has made much of a courtesy form letter that went to 200 organisations, some of whom are interested in fast-track, some of whom are not interested in fast-track. So writing a letter to someone which is,\u00A0essentially, a press release letting them know that the fast-track process is open does not\u00A0raise any concerns like the member is raising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeb0ef0f853145b487a20f95d81645da\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to make it clear that this House is not a place for speculative accusations. It\u2019s not a place for making general statements in the nature of an accusation. The Standing Orders deal with that very, very clearly, and I will act on them. I think that line of questioning has been well and truly dealt with over a period of two days, and it should now cease unless there is a specific action that is part of what is publicly known.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022250ad424481a4afeb4d12035076d890a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister\u2014not to be speculative in this case\u2014is it a fact that no member or Minister or party in the Government has taken $350,000 illegally from a charity, as is the fact publicly known now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022447c181ce8f8422db594878adcdd05d4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014I think, in the interests of progressing, the point is made, and no\u00A0further comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022530819c6b25e44c39569e3e09ba28fe0\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Was he made aware of a conflict of interest by Minister Jones which disclosed $50,000 was donated to New Zealand First from entities with\u00A0a\u00A0connection to Kings Quarry before he sent the 3 April letter inviting Kings Quarry to\u00A0apply for the fast-track process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1fc7d85358247e7bffa4daf60c1e8b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014I\u2019m sorry\u2014I\u2019m not accepting that question, and I\u2019ll tell you why I\u2019m not accepting it. Because there are general activities that a Government engages in. For example, the conservation ministry or the environment ministry sent out a form letter relating to some particular policy. Would the expectation be that a party that might have received some funding from one of the organisations receiving that form letter should cause all of their members to disclose? I think there are clear rules around disclosure; there are clear rules around Cabinet pecuniary interests, and I think trying to pursue it in a general way in which is sort of like a\u2014what\u2019s the term where you just go\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022143f0767dc1f493691d2f35a734f4677\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Star Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39a4bd0aaa84c38bc6f5b6719af3858\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. No, please\u2014I\u2019ll come up with a term. Where just digging around to try and find something is not an acceptable use of the House\u2019s time or House procedure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200dbe68b631a4d958e66170ae1d3e863\u0022\u003EHon James Shaw\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Beg your pardon. Mr Speaker, in the previous Parliament, I remember a whole series of questions that came from the then Opposition where they would ask the same question every day. I\u2019m thinking, for example, of the Hon Mark Mitchell\u2019s questions of police Ministers about crimes reported on one date versus a number of crimes reported on another date, and the same question was, essentially, asked week after week after week. There has never been an attempt by the Speaker to rein in what questions could be asked just because those questions had already been asked and the House had already been informed of those answers. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab13c93020c84f1cac49b4f4ddd775e3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would agree with you. If that were the case, it would be appalling. What I\u2019m ruling on is the content. It\u2019s quite a different matter and I\u2019m happy to discuss it with anybody who likes, in the context of Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc8e87accfa64faa81d2710e7d3498dd\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he commit to reducing the concentration of powers in\u00A0Ministers under the bill after concerns were raised by the Auditor-General and the\u00A0Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment about the proposed decision-making approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2ad4b52eae94931910fa34bb22a8e2b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the bill is currently before the select committee and we\u2019ll be interested to see what the select committee reports back. But, as I\u2019ve said publicly, we\u2019re open to sensible changes\u2014as indeed all Governments are when a bill goes through select committees. So we\u2019re open to sensible changes, but I can tell the House two things: the core of it will remain\u2014it will be a one-stop shop process in which all of the relevant permits are dealt with at the same time\u2014and it will be a genuine fast-track process. The clue\u2019s in the name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217b36a885b534f3da9987c534462d4d7\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, thank you, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299bdf4156aa14e43b7abdace2735b929\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, just wait till everyone\u2019s quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f11b301092074ffeb068ef1ea258a9b7\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Are there other examples of fast-track proposals operating in a similar way to what the Minister is proposing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270d0bc469ed2448890d32524b28173ab\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Be a bit careful here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c7e2259962f402bb591089809d07816\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I just wanted to make the point which is that we have taken much of the architecture for the Fast-track Approvals Bill before Parliament from previous regimes. For example, during the COVID era, a bill was introduced which advanced 17 projects included upon introduction, added by Cabinet without any public consultation, without anyone even knowing what the projects were until they were dropped in the Parliament. We are actually going through an independent process to provide advice to the Government about what projects should be in the bill after it gets reported back from the select committee. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022039ca01564da417cafdf6cdb5d054b47\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a fascinating little exchange. You should take it outside. Perhaps even\u00A0record it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223078b2556ace437d82944a68eaaaf369\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014RMA Reform\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u00222614bc302d414d9ca5ec216018c46629\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222614bc302d414d9ca5ec216018c46629\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for RMA Reform: What announcements has he made regarding reforms to the Resource Management Act 1991? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002238cea4a253c14b58821fde34c6621ab5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238cea4a253c14b58821fde34c6621ab5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, the coalition Government announced we\u2019re delivering on our commitment to improve resource management laws and give certainty to consent applications, with a bill being introduced to Parliament next month, the bill we\u2019re calling the Resource Management Amendment Bill (No 1). A number of changes will be included, which include making\u00A0it\u00A0clear that while the National Policy Statement on Freshwater Management is being reviewed and replaced, resource consent applicants no longer need to demonstrate their\u00A0proposed activities follow Te Mana o te Wai hierarchy of obligations. We\u2019re amending stock exclusion regulations in relation to slope land, repealing intensive winter grazing regulations, and suspending the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity (NPSIB) requirement for councils to identify new significant natural areas (SNAs) for three years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251a205b4d30d4c72a1a9ac33c3a91f53\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: What changes is the Government making in this bill to help farmers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a321834907f4b42a74cbf3aedcfae8c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m proud to say this coalition Government is ending the war on farmers. The last Government loaded on the regulations, putting unnecessary costs on farmers and growers. We\u2019re removing the need for resource applicants to demonstrate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c1319dd2de043678b12292d9a213b00\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. You\u2019ve been pretty consistent that questions from Government members can\u2019t be used not only to attack the previous Government but to cast opinions on previous policies\u2014and a factual statement is fine. Situations of a factual nature that the Government has inherited\u2014no problem. But to cast an opinion not only in the first response but also the second sentence of that response should be pulled up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdda50b82366462facf774bfd517bc78\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, the trouble was there was a heck of a lot of noise coming, and I didn\u2019t actually pick up all of what was said, to be quite straight up with you. But can I just suggest that speaking factually about matters that have existed is fine; being speculative about what those matters were is not so tolerable. So I\u2019ll call on the Hon Chris Bishop to start his answer again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4295a72be2b42bd9694e82dc83d8592\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re proposing to remove the problematic and contentious low slope map, and for regional councils and farmers to determine where stock needs to be excluded based on risk. The focus is on farm-level and regionally suitable solutions. These changes will reduce costs for farmers. There\u2019s more work to do, but this is an important first step. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229444ba0d6779472485a85d4f12c7a863\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: What else does this bill do to help farmers? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d0571b112924037b2b53f6eb3123fbf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: More good news: we\u2019re suspending the NPSIB requirement for councils to identify new significant natural areas for three years, enabling farmers and growers to find the right solutions for their farm and catchment, rather than a dictatorial, centralised approach. The criteria for identifying new SNAs were an attempt to provide a standard approach to identifying the most important areas of biodiversity. However, we\u2019ve heard the concerns of Kiwis that less significant areas are being captured, and this can place too much restriction on how land is used. This change restores property rights for landowners, cuts red tape, and lets farmers and growers get on with what they do best, which is farming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232b4362245a945c2b5d2f679c4d4271b\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: How do these changes fit in with the Government\u2019s wider Resource Management Act (RMA) reform agenda? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cb118c07e7f4ee29b79c060bf62b317\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Our RMA reforms have two broad objectives. The first thing is to make it easier to get things done by unlocking capacity for housing and business\u00A0growth, enabling delivery of quality infrastructure; doubling renewable energy; and enabling primary sector growth and development. Our second objective is to safeguard the environment and human health, adapt to climate change, and improve regulatory quality in the resource management system. Across the coalition documents making up\u00A0this multiparty Government, there are 20 different commitments relating to\u00A0the RMA that we are responsible for delivering. As part of phase two, we will be\u00A0delivering many\u00A0of those, and, of course, the ultimate goal is to deliver on our phase\u00A0three commitment to repeal and replace the existing RMA with a new regime premised\u00A0on the enjoyment of property rights. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229766b9a5e24d4a21a2b685b019367f66\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00227454ee4714134eb4974cf260f2cad7df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227454ee4714134eb4974cf260f2cad7df\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CI do think people are feeling vulnerable. And that, for me, is a message that I must be a strong advocate and contributor to M\u0101ori success\u201D; if so, does he think cutting jobs at Te Puni K\u014Dkiri is a \u201Ccontributor to M\u0101ori success\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u0022efe25fd8f350484da363d1cf1c455d64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efe25fd8f350484da363d1cf1c455d64\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E I am committed to M\u0101ori and New Zealand\u2019s success, and this coalition Government is committed to good\u00A0government. There is a consultation process under way at Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, and that\u2019s an operational matter that I\u2019ll leave to the Tumu Whakarae of M\u0101ori Development to progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271c4e6d04f9448c5a4da02a2451ddb3a\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: How does prioritising Government policies that removes te reo M\u0101ori from Government departments, removes the Treaty provisions in the Oranga Tamariki Act, and repeals the M\u0101ori Health Authority contribute to M\u0101ori success?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c2ced5494124889a6026fcd0bc1f39a\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I said this before: I remain very committed to being a good example of using te reo M\u0101ori in this House and other places. One thing that I would say is that under the last Government where some of these outcomes went haywire, we saw an increase of 98,000 through to 130,000 M\u0101ori on main benefits, and we are committed to supporting Minister Upston and others to get this country back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ae3d49e78d341c8b7b09dc67cb5592e\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with David Seymour that analysis provided by Te Puni K\u014Dkiri is not adding much value, and, if so, is this the reason why he is cutting jobs at Te Puni K\u014Dkiri?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227b022d0b014405f8460e2a0a9808980\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with Minister Seymour, who has observed that having one out of three M\u0101ori kids going to school is an absolute failure and we need to get more M\u0101ori children back to school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296ef9b166412456b863fb3839dadcb68\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t even believe the Minister\u2019s addressed the question. The question was very specific: does he agree with David Seymour and the analysis provided by Te Puni K\u014Dkiri (TPK)? He\u2019s talking about something completely different. I don\u2019t even believe he\u2019s addressed the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1d57188ef304c12bb42587bc70f7352\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that may be your belief, but when he stood up and said he agrees with David Seymour and then went on to give an example of it, I think that addresses the question. But I\u2019ll tell you what, ask it again and see what else he can come up with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a971308c7dbe4ba6b9e7af8f37d5c220\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Thanks very much, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229922054dc9ef46cfab7b215e844222bc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Christopher Luxon\u003C/span\u003E: Come off script.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffec4c3621474e91956a549bcfae23f0\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Come off script\u2014oh, OK. E whakaae ana ia ki t\u0101 David Seymour, ko te wetewete a TPK k\u0101re i te nui haere te w\u0101riu m\u0113n\u0101 koin\u0101 te take i tapahia e ia ng\u0101 mahi i TPK? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E[Does he agree with David Seymour, the slashing of TPK, value is not increasing if that is the reason for him cutting the activities of TPK?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e24541ad38de43a8af81b9d16da5a670\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: E tino tautoko ana au i te k\u012Banga k\u014Drero a Minita Seymour. E p\u0113nei ana t\u0101na k\u014Drero: korekore noa iho ng\u0101 tamariki M\u0101ori e haere ana ki ng\u0101 kura, n\u0101 reira me kaha t\u0101tou, me pakari t\u0101tou ki te tautoko i \u0113r\u0101 tamariki M\u0101ori kia hoki atu ki te kura. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[I absolutely support the statement of Minister Seymour. His statement went like this: M\u0101ori children are not at all going to school, so we must be strong, we must be determined to support those M\u0101ori children to go back to school.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227acd4520989d4e2bbb62f8e60a5769a1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a294fe43a2cf4d369c375bcf5e344cc6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. Sorry\u2014Mr Peters, if you wouldn\u2019t mind, sir, we\u2019ll just wait for\u00A0quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022026d7ceaa2374c2f8f50aade6a686a8c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister consider that the question\u2019s phraseology is more understandable to 95 percent of New Zealanders than it\u2019s ever been in the past? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beabcf973989484cb25e2457355522e0\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Tino tautoko. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[Absolutely agree.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cc90aa7de864255a9f1b4f6e141027f\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister what advocacy, if any, has he done to ensure no further cuts to workers across his portfolio responsibilities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022125ad328b020474fb63ee585b3591115\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: As mentioned before, those matters are in the operational remit of the Tumu Whakarae of M\u0101ori Development, but what we are absolutely focused on is the nine key Government targets, many of which touch on disproportionate impacts on M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071c4398005846848e0342d055a0b6b1\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask how he can claim he is a strong advocate for M\u0101ori success when all M\u0101ori are seeing is cuts, repeals, and the undermining of kaupapa M\u0101ori\u00A0initiatives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c2335699f6d4704b3e49886f82020c1\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Late last year, we saw a number of M\u0101ori, particularly wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori, who lost their jobs at Juken, at Gisborne\u2019s timber mill, and Te Puni K\u014Dkiri and others got behind and rallied behind those people and gave them support to retrain and transition out of an unemployment situation into horticulture and construction. That is the mahi that this Government is committed to supporting\u2014to getting people back in work and off the main benefits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6e6fb72908f49d3be578db9c734b3b9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca72f66150154dfb8836d7acf2a1c5ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca72f66150154dfb8836d7acf2a1c5ad\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What announcements has she recently made on priorities for education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb756489cf0748ffa3d2aa60a98e49eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb756489cf0748ffa3d2aa60a98e49eb\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E This week, I announced six education priorities which will drive decision making and build a world-leading education system for New Zealand students. These priorities are establishing a clear year-by-year curriculum that details the knowledge, skills, and competencies that kids need to succeed, implementing evidence-based approaches to teaching literacy and numeracy, introducing more consistent reporting, strengthening teacher training, targeting effective learning support and interventions, and using data and evidence to drive decision making. These priorities will support the Government to be laser-focused on ensuring that at least 80\u00A0percent of our kids are at curriculum by 2030.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a625229d03614bafb43fc4b91ea2c73e\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she make this announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022256875347cb540c9901c45185fe207c2\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The persistent trends of decline in achievement and attendance must stop. Our current system, in the words of the ministry itself, \u201Cdoes not deliver excellent or equitable outcomes\u201D. The equity gap is stubbornly wide; 20 percent of our tamariki M\u0101ori are at curriculum for maths at the end of year 8, and in 2022, almost 10,000 kids left school with no qualifications at all. My six education priorities represent a bold and significant shift away from an approach that is vague and devolved, away from a pick-and-mix approach to assessment, and away from a broken learning support system that fails to meet the needs of our students and has delivered poor results. We have a mandate for change and have been elected to deliver a high-performing and internationally comparable education system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229426827e414441d385a98237f99c5f32\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: How will this announcement help to turn around a persistent decline in student achievement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228f946484fd84e028da58c98689595db\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: These priorities will shape the direction of the education system. This work is already under way. From this term, we have targeted regional professional learning and development funding across the country to focus on embedding structured approaches to literacy in both English and te reo, developing assessment capabilities and practices including aromatawai for M\u0101ori-medium schools, and supporting teachers to prepare students for the numeracy and literacy co-requisites at NCEA level 1. I am directing investment to the front line, ensuring teachers get the support they need to drive these changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfe5aef322964644a9ee249c7475a502\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: How will these priorities support her vision for education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbc121c6a8a64ec19b7008b063166453\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: We are putting ambition and achievement back at the heart of our education system. Your means should not determine your destiny. My vision is not only to lift achievement but to close the equity gap that has plagued New Zealand society for too long. These priorities lay the foundations for change. Under this Government, education and a social investment lens will deliver greater social mobility, support breaking intergenerational cycles of poverty, and build the pathways that allow every child to fulfil their potential and to be ambitious about their future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002279b2088492994263bf0ef472a9ab8d0f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00227bc0d7a2d6094af5ba6d3c92b54bfcf4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bc0d7a2d6094af5ba6d3c92b54bfcf4\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What advice, if any, has he received on the safety of frontline police officers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022392dabbe1a754275b46c5e78e4709cb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022392dabbe1a754275b46c5e78e4709cb0\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I receive a\u2014Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f215be8fd4264971b4b216a02526ceb6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I\u2019m listening; carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022243af34d58c04e27873817de9f4087ad\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I receive a range of advice. The latest advice that I received from police in relation to front-line safety is that there was a 45.5 percent increase in assaults on police since 2018.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222acca54f4a4c4067b811a7cfa128cde2\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with police advice that \u201CTimely and accurate intelligence sharing between the Firearms Safety Authority and police is vital for joint\u00A0success. Shared intelligence supports front-line staff safety as well as the work of police in tackling organised crime.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227836ca5a89024332859966b5c4b5c7b9\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do agree with that. I think that we\u2019re in a terrible situation as a country where, under the previous Government, we\u2019ve seen a massive increase\u00A0in violent crime: a 33 percent increase. We\u2019ve seen a 76 percent increase in gang members. Those gang members are carrying firearms; they\u2019re willing to use them. The intelligence for\u00A0the police to gather is critically important. They are rebuilding that capability. This Government is bringing legislation to make sure they\u2019ve got additional tools and powers to get on top of the gang problem that we\u2019ve got in our country. This Government is committed to making sure that we get back on track and that New Zealand should be the safest place in the world, instead of experiencing some of the worst violent crime that was perpetuated by that Government\u2014well, the former Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc91ad6be0b94e899170fea49210436f\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is he confident that front-line police officers will be able to\u00A0access up-to-date intelligence on firearms if the Firearms Safety Authority is removed from police and located within another Government department such as the Department of Internal Affairs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6e8ab86224a4e3899a8e0fbce175857\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I\u2019d say to that is that this Government is committed to making sure that our police have got all the intelligence, all the tools, all the\u00A0resources that they need to go out there and keep the public safe. They feel that they\u2019ve\u00A0got a lot of work to do because, under the previous Government, we saw an enormous increase in gang members. We\u2019ve seen a massive increase in violent retail crime that\u2019s baked in over six years. We\u2019ve got a big job ahead of us. We\u2019re up for it and we\u2019re tackling it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a975ec67d95a46c3b45802747c7edf46\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister if he is confident where the front-line police safety will be ensured if the transfer of Te Tari P\u016Breke, the Firearms Safety Authority, is taken out of police. I don\u2019t believe he went anywhere near talking about that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aea8e02317bd4221ba6041f94a2aed66\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, just have another go\u2014that\u2019s all. No one\u2019s in a hurry here, it seems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c4774e0e8f54c8a9d5f2937e42fdcee\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, do you want to ask the question again or do you want me to just answer it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d68e2c339874570b2528becff40d9de\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve just actually asked the question again by way of your point of order, so I think you\u2019ve probably heard it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256f9eb23b2bd45629c0eabb63ddf0adb\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Like I said, this Government is committed to making sure that our police have all the resources, all the intelligence, and the ability to be able to deal with firearms and gang harm in this country, because, under the previous Government, we had a 76 percent increase in gang numbers, we\u2019ve had a massive increase in gang violence, we\u2019ve had gang members now that carry firearms and are willing to use them. This Government is committed to making sure that our police officers have got the tools and the powers and the ability to not only keep themselves safe but keep the members of the public safe as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d0fcdef0115410bac0b0ed4748cc5e8\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: I asked whether the Minister had confidence that the transfer of that authority into another department would ensure front-line safety. He gave me a list of things that he was committed to, but he did not express confidence\u2014in shifting the Firearms Safety Authority would ensure that same level of access to intelligence to police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022669da5c9cf6e45bfb68117a79608487a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I know, but I\u2019ve listened to the answer twice now, and I think replying in a way that talks about a commitment to the safety of officers does address the\u00A0question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022666b2e7eb40f499691b0f3540207d697\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How will he resolve police\u2019s concern that \u201CBoth the Arms Act and the coalition agreement include timings that appear incompatible with one another and this needs to be resolved.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228c116cc24db44049f8fc2803fe9983d\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s nothing incompatible at all about the approach to law and order and public safety by this coalition Government. We have committed to an additional 500 police officers. We are bringing new legislation and that\u00A0will deal with violent gangs. We are bringing legislation in that will actually put\u00A0tougher consequences around these violent retail, youth, and juvenile offenders. So it is\u00A0a completely consistent approach by this Government in terms of making sure that\u00A0we start to deal with what\u2019s a tough job because of the last six years under a Labour\u00A0Government. But we are committed to that and we\u2019re going to continue to make forward movement on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfebf0ad7bb346d09ddcadcc6d8fb950\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I asked him whether\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a9de90fc36648e19c47117ec15008d4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me, what is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce16c59188f84f44843c1738b05fdd71\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, sorry. A point of order, Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa77fcd5b9b64d86afb4975aec250541\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, the Hon Ginny Andersen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283628c3c9af6426189ffb8fdd34e9261\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies, Mr Speaker. A point of order: the Minister was asked that there was a quote that was police advice\u2014that basically clearly said that the Arms Act and the coalition are at odds with each other and that needs to be resolved. And the Minister has not addressed how he intends to resolve that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022829e1e5cf34a4bcdb5ea5515e46bb6dc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s not the way the member would like, but he started his answer by saying he disagreed with you. I don\u2019t think you can get much clearer than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273af77271ad04b679d53bf158bd1627d\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How can he say that front-line safety is his priority when police themselves have raised real concerns directly with him regarding taking the Firearms Safety Authority out of police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f56f65ebf4ba442690a894cf104cf581\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I can say that public safety is important to this Government, because that\u2019s what we\u2019re about as a coalition. And police safety\u2014if the Minister had read my letter of expectation to the commissioner, which we had to release to get us back on track and focused again on the things that matter, she would see that police safety is a priority for this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224da00d1be2f54901ac4589e6de7a00d1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002256f95b6f36fa4b2e9e24a9476cc770a8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u00222f5af29945a845ec94c4be0b60c185b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f5af29945a845ec94c4be0b60c185b2\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: Does she agree with official advice that military-style bootcamps are \u201Clikely to be detrimental to young people with a history of abuse\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb248464ae7b4947a05f4f34a4c39ec3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb248464ae7b4947a05f4f34a4c39ec3\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I\u2019d like to say I disagree with the member\u2019s interpretation of the advice, as asked in the question. If you take the advice as it was stated in full, which said, \u201CTraditional bootcamp models of strict discipline are likely to be detrimental to young people with a history of abuse and family violence.\u201D, yes, I do agree. The advice also noted that programmes which include elements of counselling and have primary focus on rehabilitation are significantly more effective. The programme that this Government is working on will have a military-style component with a rehabilitative and trauma - informed care approach. This is not just about consequences for young people who offend but actually showing them that they have it within themselves to turn their lives around. It will give them the tools and the encouragement that they need to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022785b09dcd502465996ebd9dbcb63efbc\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think the 86 percent reoffending rate of the last military-style activity camps is a sign of success, and, if not, why is she repeating this failed experiment that causes traumatised young people more harm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e5fe6c8a6904d06bc9fbd706a410f11\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The military-style academies in the Military-style Activity Camp programme were run between 2010 and 2016. An evaluation of that programme showed positive results, with improvements in attitude and motivation of the young people to address their offending. However, it was also found that the lack of robust support once the young person left the programme meant that the improvements in outcomes were not realised to the extent that they might have been. That is why the programme that this Government is working on is going to have a rehabilitative and trauma - informed care approach, alongside the military approach to ensure that these young people will receive the full wraparound support they need to turn their lives around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f59ea69c5fd416aa98196bde81143e2\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think it\u2019s acceptable to experiment on young people when there is a wealth of evidence on what works to reduce youth crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211a5dd7360d54d5f94d061d65d2c5db6\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: What I don\u2019t find acceptable is not giving these young people the tools and the care that they need to turn their lives around. We need to make sure that we\u2019re giving them everything that they need to know that they are worth something and that they can become the best that they can be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ea1238b4d334e01b11a705a48b6581d\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Why does she expect military-style bootcamps to work in Aotearoa this time around, when officials advised of numerous international evidence of bootcamps being the least effective interventions when it comes to reducing youth reoffending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb7dbef9954247ebb79ae2c5596b3d35\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Oranga Tamariki has received multiple advice from different agencies, looked around to different programmes, taken learnings from those programmes\u2014what worked; what didn\u2019t work\u2014in creating this new programme which will make sure that our young people are not out reoffending and causing harm in our communities. This is about reducing harm in our communities and making sure that our young people have the right support behind them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c4020a32839478e8c5851aa7eafcb66\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Can she name a single evidence-based reason as to why she is pursuing military-style bootcamps when all of the evidence is stacked against them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eb9cdceeb4449bebb828d5b5ee95d79\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: What the evidence does show us is what we are doing now is not working. We can\u2019t accept the status quo. We need to make sure that we are giving these young people the tools they need to be the best that they can be. And I believe that this Government is truly caring about making sure that we are reducing harm within our communities, but also making sure that we are reducing these young people going back into communities without the support that they need to turn their lives around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c2341cede9b046dd8dd3e52cc0593f3a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Building and Construction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022711b408609df4df6901891ec17e4fc6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022711b408609df4df6901891ec17e4fc6e\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Building and Construction: What announcements has the Government made in building and construction?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022464e800f946346ae87ec2349c0ad4917\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022464e800f946346ae87ec2349c0ad4917\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is bringing forward a review of earthquake-prone buildings to provide greater certainty for Kiwis. While this review is under way, all current remediation deadlines will be extended by four years. Of course, some building owners who have already planned on making improvements will be in a position to continue this work, motivated by considerations such as private insurance arrangements or the ability to tenant buildings. But we have heard, in many cases across New Zealand, that buildings were not going to be remediated within the original time frames anyway because of barriers such as crippling cost and heritage status.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022019dd53e7f534ac0b10bdbcb9ecee24f\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: Why are these changes needed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca81af9d89bf43d5b445181c1725e2f7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. The current earthquake-prone building system was put in place in 2017 in good faith and required buildings considered to be earthquake-prone to be remediated before set dates.\u00A0Nearly 500 deadlines are set to expire over the next four years. Council and building owners across New Zealand have told me and other Government members that many\u00A0buildings will not meet their deadlines due to the costs involved being much higher than originally contemplated and further complicated by heritage rules and other\u00A0artificial constraints affecting residential housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee11d7cd285f40e1be3cfd3429880a45\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will these changes have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fcb2229795749fc870eb23e4300390a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: These changes from the review, or at least the ones we contemplate will flow from the review, we hope will provide considerable relief across New Zealand. The earthquake-prone building rules impact the entire country\u2014not just Wellington\u2014in small-town New Zealand and larger cities alike. Without change, an increasing number of buildings could sit empty and derelict, which would have a devastating effect on the economy across New Zealand\u2014again, in a multitude of different built environments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275dc801b0eea43acae2dc1edd6ae425d\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: What are the next steps?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022236f1d94658c46cd8dcf7f6dba231b28\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Cabinet will soon agree to terms of reference for the review, which will be informed by feedback from a wide range of affected New Zealanders. In addition, a Building Act amendment bill will be introduced to give effect to the extension to remediation deadlines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6395817abcc4dfcb4c22e40af391097\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Economic Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee93dfe5d2fd41b9803400d6d3d5b71a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee93dfe5d2fd41b9803400d6d3d5b71a\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: Does she agree with her statement, \u201CI think we need to get on with the job of delivering for New Zealand\u201D; if so, what actions has she taken to deliver for New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00220e78288cb5334c46b12ed88403d16e9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e78288cb5334c46b12ed88403d16e9c\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, as delivering for New Zealand is what this Government was elected to do. This Government has an ambitious target to double the value of exports over the next decade, continue to support major events, increase foreign direct investment, and improve the Government procurement system by reducing red tape and bureaucracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af35f1612a84cd78e289c7394cad1e8\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she allow the cancellation of Industry Transformation Plans, given it was a tool to work alongside industry to accelerate the growth and success of New Zealand businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee8e6ef118df4cf19f2ee31607fadd9f\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: That was a coalition Government decision, and it was cancelled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022255a7bf10828425d8b4fcdd6bb032252\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to the forestry and wood-processing sector after their plan was axed, given their overwhelming support for the plan to create high-value jobs and low-carbon products here in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa68d8cfd1bc4fe5846f710359523b0b\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: There are many decisions that this Government makes and one\u00A0of the things that we are actually trying to do is grow the economy, and some of the\u00A0decisions that that Government put through were actually a bad idea and we cancelled\u00A0them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265bea430c3de4836b514f61d652e1a21\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to members of the tech sector, who contribute $13\u00A0billion to the New Zealand economy, like NZTech, who have publicly asked the Minister to\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cplease retain the industry led, Government supported framework to enable collaboration and alignment across this rapidly growing part of the economy.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d35f13080db4efca71e56fad4901045\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: The tech industry is very well supported by this Government, and one of the great Ministers\u2014Judith Collins\u2014is actually very focused on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fce6cb426b0430cbffd540836d07e1e\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: How can industry sectors have faith in her performance and economic development plan if all they can find is cuts to investment into their industries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9e47622c5b748edaeda6849b029bce8\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: One of the things that we are very focused on, as I said, is doubling the value of exports over the next decade, continuing to support major events\u00A0that bring investment and tourism dollars to the regions, increasing foreign direct investment, and improving the Government procurement system by reducing red tape\u00A0and bureaucracy. That will get New Zealand back on track. One of the things that\u00A0I can tell that member is that I have been travelling up and down the country, including to his electorate of New Plymouth\u2014well, actually, he\u2019s a list member, so it\u2019s not his electorate\u2014last week to hear their concerns and find ways to support them to achieve their economic success.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002257b24f3eca3a43cfbe07e4030d4901dd\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0a5fd54acaa4cd6a48517c15af845b3\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022de38a8fefc94407fa92aa70a7fb67581\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de38a8fefc94407fa92aa70a7fb67581\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI want to start with a message for New Zealanders: things are tough right now. Inflation has been too high for too long. It is almost three years since inflation went above 3 percent and gave rise to a cost of living crisis that was prolonged and has now gone on for some years. Interest rates have risen very high to try and fight that inflation\u2014higher than they would have had to if there had been a Government that was doing its bit to take the fuel off the inflation fire. Now, with high inflation and high interest rates, there are many New Zealanders who are struggling, and we are seeing the results of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWe are seeing those New Zealanders who\u2019ve switched to a higher mortgage interest rate now lacking the choices they once had about what they spend in their households. We are seeing that in the small businesses who now have fewer people walking through their doors with the money to spend on the goods they provide and the services they sell.\u00A0We are seeing that with the young entrepreneurs who may have once taken a risk and taken a big loan out on something but now look at that high official cash rate and take a\u00A0pause. All of that means that today we saw the unemployment numbers climb up. And I\u00A0have been gutted to hear members on the other side of this House imply that there is a single member of this Parliament who would ever, could ever, welcome that. Because we feel\u2014deeply\u2014the pain that occurs in a family when a New Zealander who wants a job cannot get one. That is why, on this side of the House, we take so seriously our duty to sound economic policies that will strengthen the fundamentals of this economy so that New Zealanders can get ahead once more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWe understand that the lifting of the unemployment rate this week is not the consequence of a decision taken yesterday or the week before. It is the build-up of successive decisions that were made over many years, over six years, where the economy was second on the list. And I want to say that we now have a Government that has moved swiftly and decisively to put the economy back where it needs to be: front and centre. We have been making the decisions that need to be made in order to strengthen New Zealand for the future\u2014a return to careful spending. Because there was a period when the babysitters were in control, they had the credit card and they were charging everything upon it\u2014the TVNZ-RNZ merger and new jobs tax over here; $1.2 billion on three waters\u00A0over here; \u201CLet\u2019s throw a few thousand at some Government strategies over here; a few glossy documents, a refurb of some offices.\u201D The problem is when the babysitters put all the cash on the credit card, it\u2019s New Zealanders who need to pay it back, and New\u00A0Zealanders are paying it back because inflation has stayed higher for longer than it should have because of an overspending Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had interest rates that have risen higher than they would otherwise have had to and we are now, on this side of the House, doing the clean-up job. We take that responsibility very seriously. You\u2019ve seen from the day we were elected that we have taken steps to put discipline in. We have taken steps to ensure that our welfare system encourages people not to languish on a benefit but actually supports them to work. We have ensured that our education system is focused again on literacy, on numeracy, on attendance, on the basics that matter; on getting rid of the regulations that have choked the entrepreneurial, that have choked employers; on making it easier in this country to\u00A0build things and to make things with fast-track legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EYou will soon see in our Budget what a responsible Government looks like, because we will spend very carefully. Investment will go where it\u2019s needed: into our schools, into our hospitals, into our police, and we will also put it in in the most important place: the back pockets of working New Zealanders. So my message to New Zealanders is that we know it\u2019s tough right now, but you elected a Government with a plan, and we will deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00228cae530fb54c43179892ff9372fc34f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cae530fb54c43179892ff9372fc34f9\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E M\u014Drena. No matter my words today, this Government will not waver in its mission to exterminate M\u0101ori. I might be tempted to change tone and say pai ana [that\u2019s OK], get rid of section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act, and while you\u2019re at it get rid of the entire Act and the rotten institution that is Oranga Tamariki, which should in fact be renamed \u201CMatenga Tamariki\u201D, because it and its predecessor has only caused strife and ruin to the most vulnerable of te iwi M\u0101ori, our babies, our beautiful brown babies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe theory of the Minister is that Oranga Tamariki\u2019s governing principles should be colour-blind, which is just another word for white supremacy, because to say we are all one people is really to say we should all be white people, erasing the very hue of our\u00A0identity and culture that makes us whole as tangata M\u0101ori, tamariki M\u0101ori, mokopuna M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EE te Minita, ka aroha ki a koe kua karetaohia e t\u014D p\u0101ti. Kia kaha r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E[To the Minister, how sad that you have been made a puppet by your party. Be strong.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe history of State violence on our tamariki is clear. Every Government institution\u00A0has failed to care for our babies. Hoi an\u014D, it was never the P\u0101keh\u0101 Government\u2019s job in\u00A0the first place. That is purely the Hawaiki-derived prerogative of wh\u0101nau, of hap\u016B, iwi, maintained by part two of Te Tiriti through tino rangatiratanga over our k\u0101inga. E\u00A0tika ana. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E[It\u2019s true.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EA house is not a k\u0101inga; that kupu encapsulates the very people that are the centre of your oranga, the people that made you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EIf not for the conventions of statutory numbering, section 7AA really should have been called \u201Csection 1840\u201D because it provides an opportunity to revive our reality as the rangatira of our own destinies, to rewind to a time where P\u0101keh\u0101 hands would not dare touch our babies. From 1842 to today, almost 70 percent of children in care are M\u0101ori, a number which has only ever gone up. I know that most of those tamariki have whakapapa to my own rohe of Te\u00A0Tai Tokerau. But they likely would not know that. Why? Because they have been stripped away from their cultural matrix. The early criminalisation of our babies through cultural alienation is no accident, and removing section 7AA will only further entrench the system which by design has ruined us, one generation at a time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EMy mind turns to Puao-te-ata-tu, which came out in my time as a social worker in the Department of Social Welfare in the 1980s. The words of that report for direct M\u0101ori involvement in social welfare policy practices to improve M\u0101ori social outcomes for M\u0101ori\u00A0have merely remained on paper. But section 7AA reveals the first glimpse of light into true devolution of power to resource M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThis Act did not, of course, fall out of the sky. The sheer volume of research and policy behind it would be difficult to quantify. However, the Government\u2019s reasons to take it away can be summed up in a few short words: racism and P\u0101keh\u0101 supremacy. The ACT Party want to keep our tamariki mokopuna in the pipeline, from State care to youth residences to youth prison to adult prison, to uphold the P\u0101keh\u0101 superiority of its voters. The Waitangi Tribunal\u2019s interim report, and so take heed of this, and indeed, the Minister\u2019s own officials in their regulatory impact statement, echo concerns over the lack of express rationale\u2014I\u2019ll\u00A0pause there\u2014behind this repeal, truthfully, because it isn\u2019t there. They have warned of the risk of real harm to vulnerable children, of progress with iwi partnerships, and to tamariki reconnecting with their culture and sense of identity\u2014please let that sink in\u2014following the tone set by successful initiatives such as Rangatahi and Matariki Courts, which do better to see our babies for who they are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EMark my words: regardless of the likely inevitable removal of section 7AA, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori will one day build a mokopuna M\u0101ori authority which will outshine this shameful moment in history, just like we did with Wh\u0101nau Ora, by M\u0101ori for M\u0101ori and of M\u0101ori.\u00A0That\u2019s what we will continue to do to the point of this Government\u2019s decisions that do not matter to us at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EHokinga \u2018hakapapa, oranga mokopuna. K\u0101ti ki t\u0113n\u0101, kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E[A return of identity is the wellbeing of grandchildren. That\u2019s enough, thanks everyone.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d34179cfd3aa4039b7ca03b14fcdacd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d34179cfd3aa4039b7ca03b14fcdacd8\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E This Government is aspirational and ambitious for our nation\u2019s kids, and academic achievement will be at the heart of everything that we do to ensure that we have a world-leading education system. Because all Kiwi kids\u2014including tamariki M\u0101ori\u2014deserve a world-leading education, to be literate and numerate, and to have the knowledge and skills they need to take on the world or be great iwi leaders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EEducation is the key to change lives and alter the course of one\u2019s future, to break cycles of intergenerational poverty and dependence, but our current educational results are failing too many kids in this country. Nearly 10,000 students in 2022 left without a qualification, and 40 percent of those year 10 and 11 learners who sat the foundational literacy and numeracy assessments were unable to pass last year. These results show that kids from low socio-economic homes\u2014overrepresented by our M\u0101ori tamariki\u2014are well overrepresented in these statistics. The equity gap is worse here than in any country that we compare ourselves to. These are the very kids who need access to a world-leading education to change their circumstances the most, and in New Zealand, our great egalitarian society, your means determine your destiny; 42 percent of our kids at year 8 are at curriculum for math. For our tamariki M\u0101ori, that\u2019s 20 percent; and for our Pasifika kids, 14.5 percent are at curriculum for maths at the end of intermediate. This very much reduces their ability to experience success at high school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI want every single child in this country to experience educational success, academic success, and the confidence and self-esteem and self-belief that goes along with that success. We have to get at least 80 percent of our kids at curriculum by 2030 and we will hold ourselves to account. Yesterday, I announced my six priorities to lift student achievement and better support our wonderful teaching workforce: a clear, concise, and knowledge-rich curriculum that lays out the knowledge and skills that should be taught each year; implementing evidence-based structured literacy, maths mastery\u2014approaches that are grounded in the science of learning about how the brain learns; implementing consistent methods of regular progress monitoring so that teachers and parents know where their students and kids are at; we will develop the workforce of the future including leadership development pathways, because we know the single most important thing in our education system is our teachers and our leaders; we will target effective learning support interventions for students with additional learning needs; and key to all of this is data and evidence to drive improvement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EMake no mistake: this represents a fundamental shift in education that our kids deserve. It represents more support for teachers and, importantly, a shift back to explicit teaching of knowledge and skills in a consistent manner. And this, combined with the magic that the teachers bring in how they contextualise the content of the curriculum to engage the students that are in front of them, will mean that no matter where you go to school, no matter where you live, no matter the resource that your family have, our students will get taught the basics brilliantly so they can go on to live the life they want. We have a moral, social, and economic imperative to get this right. Generations of kids and their families are depending on us to be bold and to be effective, and, let me tell you, this is a Government that\u2019s committed to delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EBut I want to take a moment to address the previous speaker, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi\u2019s speech. At the heart of everything that we are doing in education is to raise M\u0101ori achievement. The results over the last six years under the previous Government have let our poorer communities down, our tamariki M\u0101ori down, and our Pasifika students down. The results speak for themselves: 20 percent of M\u0101ori students at the end of year 8 at curriculum for mathematics; 14.5 for Pasifika students. Everything that we are doing in our policy is ensuring that those kids who need that support the most are going to get it.\u00A0Let me tell that member something: structured literacy\u2014how the brain learns to read.\u00A0In Maramarua School, after two years of structured literacy\u2014they had 37 percent of their M\u0101ori kids at curriculum for reading, after two years: 67 percent. Those are the evidence-based policies we will be putting in place to make sure our tamariki M\u0101ori are getting every single opportunity they need to succeed in this world, and it will be a National - ACT - New Zealand First Government that will achieve it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc733af6f48f4ee79ffbc2ea9751ff8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc733af6f48f4ee79ffbc2ea9751ff8c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. When we boil it all down, one of the central purposes of Government is to keep their citizens safe from threats, allowing them to go about living free and productive lives. During their previous six-year tenure, Labour shirked this responsibility and failed Kiwis. Everyday citizens were exposed to harm daily and their individual freedoms were being constantly attacked by others. During that time, we saw a ram raid epidemic explode, with the number of ram raids committed increasing by 465 percent in just two years as of March 2023. We saw liquor stores and corner dairies being raided by machete-wielding thugs, with innocent New Zealanders bearing the cost of this violence. We saw gangs taking over our streets. In the case of \u014Cp\u014Dtiki last year, we saw the takeover of a whole town. We saw convictions for firearms-related offences increase by 24 percent between 2018 and 2023. It is safe to say that Labour failed to protect New Zealanders from crime and failed to uphold New Zealand\u2019s reputation as being a safe country in which people can freely pursue their dreams without the fear of violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis Government has said, \u201CEnough is enough.\u201D The coalition Government has made a firm commitment to restore law and order, and we have wasted no time whatsoever in taking action to fulfil this commitment. First, we will strengthen the firearms prohibition orders (FPOs) to get guns out of the hands of gangsters and violent criminals. By expanding the qualifying criteria for the issuing of an FPO, this Government will make sure that gang leaders, who often avoid serious offending by getting others to do their dirty work for them, would be more likely to be eligible to receive an FPO. We also plan to give police new specialist search powers so that anyone subject to an FPO can be searched at any time. This means police will be able to search offenders with an FPO, their vehicles, and their premises for firearms at any time to ensure they are complying with their FPO.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ENext, my colleague the Minister of Justice has taken steps to ban gang patches in public. Gang members use their strength in numbers to intimidate others and disrupt the peace. This Government has taken action to address this issue instead of dropping it in the too-hard basket like Labour did. The Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill will achieve this by doing four key things: creating a new criminal offence prohibiting the display of gang insignia in public places, creating new dispersal powers, creating a non-consorting order, and, finally, giving greater weight to gang membership as an aggravating factor at sentencing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFurther, this Government has taken much-needed steps to end the cottage industry of section 27 reports, which were costing taxpayers millions of dollars and allowing some violent offenders significant sentencing discounts. Taxpayer funding of section 27 cultural reports was an absolute insult to the victims of crime\u2014even more so when we consider the fact that notorious gangsters, such as the Mongrel Mob member Harry Tam, were not only writing reports but were being paid taxpayer money to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EBut, most recently, I have introduced the three-strikes regime to hold serious violent and\u00A0sexual offenders to account. The new three-strikes regime builds and improves upon previous\u00A0legislation, applying only to sentences of more than 24 months. Our intention is to focus on serious repeat offenders without capturing the lower-level offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe have listened to New Zealanders who told us that they were concerned about law and order. They told us they want appropriate consequences for serious repeat violent and sexual offending, and this new regime will provide it. Three strikes is this Government putting victims first and we make no apology for that at all. We also have a simple message to anyone who wants to avoid a lengthy prison sentence: stop committing violent and sexual crimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd7f91f2d5fd4aae92407a5842a0cd5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd7f91f2d5fd4aae92407a5842a0cd5f\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, and happy International Workers\u2019 Day to you. I stand here wanting to recognise the fact that it is International Workers\u2019 Day and May Day today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c520a43a77714c31a5a6cd7451f29a0f\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Workers united\u2014come on, sister!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b946a124d7e4841b54b7bd3b76fee18\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for the encouragement from the other side of the House. It\u2019s a day that\u2019s been celebrated around the world and acknowledged around the\u00A0world since 1889\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ba92946b1a249d1a6c47eff59af458f\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How many died from communism?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288780a32384e4ff59846184b95b00898\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so significantly longer than that member can berate from that side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EAnyway, it\u2019s a very important day for working people around the world and, unfortunately, in New Zealand we\u2019re not having particularly good times for working people at the moment. We have a Government that has cut more than they promised during the election\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251814e5da1ab4cf0862d322baa4d64ea\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, waste. That\u2019s right. Cut the waste.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e665563158f6452fa17cccd573c22c4c\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and we\u2019ve actually had the Minister of Finance get up and say in the House during this general debate that there is not a single person in her Government that celebrates when people lose a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThe member who was previously contributing to my speech, the Hon David Seymour, actually has previously said about the cuts in the Ministry for Primary Industries that it\u2019s good. David Seymour, a member of the Cabinet, has said it\u2019s good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a2da2a8297140c0a52f9596612125de\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Celebrated it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ad4f8e11601409bbe11ee254b0e3550\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: One of his colleagues, when I just mentioned the cuts, celebrated it over there. So what this Government is telling New Zealanders is not correct; their actions do not match what they\u2019re doing. They cannot say that they are concerned about the 4.3 percent unemployment that was announced today and then say that it has got nothing to do with the 3,000 positions that have been disestablished in the public sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a word for that, and it\u2019s \u201Cgaslighting\u201D. It\u2019s doing one thing and actually telling people that you\u2019re doing another. Let me tell you: it is a terribly serious thing to lose a job. On this side of the House, I can, hand on heart, say that we understand what it is like for people when they don\u2019t have work. When people don\u2019t have work, they cannot benefit from tax cuts. It may sound obvious, but if you don\u2019t have a job you\u2019re not going to benefit from tax cuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s lots of other things that this Government is doing that coincidentally come in today which are going to make things harder for New Zealanders on this International Workers\u2019 Day. One of those things is getting rid of free and half-price public transport. This affects 1.6 million New Zealanders\u2014a huge number of New Zealanders will be paying more because of this Government\u2019s decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ESo we have high unemployment, we have cuts to public transport, and what do we see? No plan from this Government to address it. There is no plan. The cuts that this Government has made to working people\u2014and I just think it\u2019s really important to note this\u2014have mainly affected women, kaimahi M\u0101ori, and Pacific people. The most vulnerable people in our society are being affected by the actions that this Government has taken. It is deadly serious and it\u2019s not something that we want to see on International Workers\u2019 Day, but it is, unfortunately, the reality of what we are seeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also seen attacks in other areas as well. Not only are people losing their jobs but those who have jobs are losing rights too. So we saw the Government repeal fair pay agreements; we saw Government, effectively, institute a wage decrease with the cuts to the minimum wage, which was less than inflation; and we\u2019ve seen them introduce 90-day trials again for the whole of the country, meaning that people at work are more likely to get sacked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not a particularly great time for working New Zealanders, this International Workers\u2019 Day, and I have to say that I think it is reflecting very badly on this Government. The Government needs to come up with a plan for unemployment. It is not acceptable just to say that \u201CThese people will lose their jobs and we\u2019ll do nothing about it.\u201D We need to see a plan, and I would encourage those on the other side of the House to actively come up with something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003ETo close, I just want to reflect on the purpose of International Workers\u2019 Day. I think it\u2019s important to recommit, as the Council of Trade Unions have said today in their media release, to the idea that everyone deserves good work; that that work is secure, that it pays well, it provides lifelong opportunities, fosters health and wellbeing, and enables people to have a voice in the workplace and contribute to a meaningful and fulfilling life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThis is the type of country and the type of work that we on this side of the House want to see for working New Zealanders this Labour Day and every International Workers\u2019 Day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2aa8f1b06e64da792926af18f09cac9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2aa8f1b06e64da792926af18f09cac9\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, today, I\u2019m going to talk about two projects in Marlborough that were cancelled, unfortunately, by our Government. We were forced to do that, and I want to give a bit of background to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe Marlborough colleges project was to set up two colleges on one site and take education in Marlborough forward quite significantly. Unfortunately, the project blew out in cost by 300 percent\u2014300 percent. Unfortunately, the then education Minister knew about this going on and, in fact, didn\u2019t inform his Cabinet. It\u2019s all reported in an article by Andrea Vance, which I encourage people to read. It is a tale of woe about how things could get out of control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI note that Tim Burfoot, who\u2019s the chair of the Marlborough Boys\u2019 College, said, \u201CWe went through a process of a lot of consultation with the ministry and the other schools on the design \u2026 the design concept was very good. There was just no talk about [a] budget at [the] time\u201D. That\u2019s underlined further by a former head of Naylor Love, who was their proposed constructor, who said, \u201CThere seemed to be no accountability for managing the budget \u2026 When prices went up, no-one said: \u2018How can we bring this back down?\u2019 It snowballed.\u201D, and boy did it snowball.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIt got to the point where, when the Government was formed and education Minister Erica Stanford took over the portfolio, she was actually almost floored when her officials came to her and said, \u201CLook, we\u2019ve got this project, there is no money to build it and it\u2019s snowballed from what its original cost was by 300 percent.\u201D So, unfortunately, I went with the Minister to front up to these schools and to talk it through with them, and I\u2019d have to say, the one thing that surprised me: they weren\u2019t surprised. They knew this was coming. As my friend and colleague Jamie Arbuckle will attest to, the people on the street knew it was coming, because the cost had just got so much out of control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe other project is what\u2019s known as the Inter-island Resilient Connection Project, or publicly more thought of as the mega-ferry project. That was absolutely another case of mismanagement. I knew a year before this came out that things were in trouble. I had contractors coming to me and saying, \u201CI\u2019m pulling out.\u201D I said, \u201CWhy are you pulling out?\u201D And he said, \u201CWell, I was asked to price a construction job as part of that project where.\u201D He said, \u201CI only had 50 percent of the drawings. And I said, \u2018I can\u2019t put a price in because I don\u2019t know what price to put in.\u2019 \u201D He was told, \u201CDon\u2019t worry about it. Just put any price in and we\u2019ll sort it out later.\u201D, and that\u2019s the sort of thing that was going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EOther small contractors had similar stories, and they got so worried about it that they pulled out of it, and you can see why. Again, one of the businesses that was benefiting quite significantly from it\u2014I don\u2019t want to mention the name of it, but the owner of it said to me, \u201CLook, I saw this coming. I\u2019m really missing out on a lot of business as a result of that, but I knew this was coming anyway and it was going to end in tears.\u201D But he\u2019s now got to meet his budget some other way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s pretty bad, really, but I also knew early on that the port was going through an assessment process to ascertain what was the maximum size of ships that they would allow to navigate through Tory Channel. I was so concerned that I talked to KiwiRail, and I\u2019d like to thank them publicly. They invited me to travel on the bridge with them through Tory Channel. It is a dangerous stretch of water. Now, the harbour board have put a maximum size on ships that can navigate through that of 187 metres. You might be surprised to know the size of the new ships was going to be 220 metres. They would not be able to actually navigate through that channel. It would have made it uneconomic anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo it is all a moot point, and I think it all came back to KiwiRail mucking around, trying to put rails on the ferries. No one in the world is now building rail ferries except for KiwiRail. And now, unfortunately, that\u2019s not happening either. So I hope we get three small, roll-on, roll-off ferries and fix this mess up. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022 data-id=\u0022b09cdbee242644f9a376cf16f57bae24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b09cdbee242644f9a376cf16f57bae24\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well and truly, New Zealanders are waking up to the coalition of cuts being absolutely real. Today, for Aucklanders, we\u2019ve seen double the price of public transport go up for young people and tamariki who are using the bus to go back to school\u2014in term 2. Yesterday in this House, the Prime Minister couldn\u2019t even answer the question of what cost impact this has on families. The cost for Aucklanders goes up for a five-zone fare from $4.25 to $8.50. If you add that up and calculate it, then it goes up to $170 additionally per child that Auckland families are paying for their kids to get around Auckland and to go to school. It\u2019s broken promises, because this Government were elected to create change for Aucklanders and offer relief, but the reality at this particular point is that they just continue to pile cost on to Auckland families. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EThis Government has been a disgrace. It\u2019s been a disgrace for Aucklanders because on top of the cost of public transport, in addition, our water rates are going up by 25.8\u00A0percent. That is through their lack of action and their repeal on water infrastructure in a large city like ours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EAt the heart of it, though, I\u2019ve always talked about the importance of health infrastructure and education infrastructure, and two particular examples that I\u2019m most concerned about, particularly after asking questions to the Minister of Health last\u00A0night, is that as we consider that Aucklanders under this Government were promised\u00A0shorter wait times in surgery. North Shore Hospital, under a Labour Government, built 150\u2014150\u2014new hospital beds and eight new surgical units. This piece of infrastructure was due to open in December of last year, and like any piece of infrastructure, it does take time. We accept that. But only a few weeks ago, we found out from the Minister that they haven\u2019t actually started recruiting staff for a\u00A0facility that was due to open back\u00A0in\u00A0December. So we have hospital beds there ready, waiting, and wait-lists for Auckland\u00A0North to actually get in there and be serviced, but, under this Government, they haven\u2019t funded it. They haven\u2019t recruited staff for this particular piece, and 150\u00A0beds sit there waiting. That is shameful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003ESecond to that, I want to acknowledge the schools\u2019 infrastructure that has been built across Auckland. It\u2019s absolutely vital that we keep up with the population growth of a growing city, of course, but also ensure that good, warm, dry classrooms for our tamariki are available. We know\u2014and I look across the aisle\u2014that Windy Ridge School has been put on hold. A large, 12-classroom facility at one of our growing schools in the Northcote electorate has been put on hold with no explanation from this Government, and I have to ask the question: where is this Government\u2019s priorities? Where are their priorities? Because all we\u2019ve seen is not a commitment to opening 150 beds at North Shore Hospital, nor a commitment to building a 12-classroom facility at Windy Ridge; all we\u2019ve seen is an early commitment to a tax break for landlords. That has been the commitment there, and every single New Zealander has been concerned about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003EBut finally, just to close off, one of my other largest concerns about Auckland City is the discontinuation of the national resilience plan. Under our Government, $6 billion was allocated to support the recovery of Auckland after the floods this time last year, and that is at risk. The Minister of Finance has not confirmed if that particular money will be taken away or that it will be cut, just like we\u2019re seeing across health, education, and the needs for our young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a988102bb76e427e99dbd4f7870043eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a988102bb76e427e99dbd4f7870043eb\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Tough times require tough decisions and living within our means\u2014it\u2019s a commonly said phrase\u2014but our country is going through a process right now of tightening our belts and better positioning ourselves for a very bright future. I look around the House today and I think we ourselves, in our own households, all have businesses in our own right: we earn revenue, we earn a salary, we earn interest\u2014we might even earn some inheritance or dividends from an investment we might have\u2014but we also have outgoings. We have to pay for food. We have to pay for rent, mortgage payments, buy clothes\u2014pay some interest, perhaps. We are, in effect, a small business in our own household, and the reason why I bring that up is that Government in itself is no different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EI want to take you on a little journey. I was lucky enough, as a young tradesman, to be able to buy into an electrical business. Now, over the time of owning that business, we went through ups and downs, highs and lows, and I\u2019m not ashamed to say that the fact is we went through some very tough times. At one stage, I thought I was going to lose my share, and we had to make some very, very tough decisions during those times. They were hard. There were people\u2019s lives at stake. And you learn, when you have a business, that when you employ an individual, it\u2019s not just that individual that you\u2019re supporting; it\u2019s also their partner, their family, and sometimes even their wider family. So you take the responsibility very, very seriously. But I did fall on hard times. It was a result of endeavouring to support a business through its own hard times, but, unfortunately, I almost became unstuck as a\u00A0result of being on the coattails of its failure. Luckily enough, I made some decisions quickly, I righted the ship, and we ended up going through to some far better times. And I\u2019m pleased to have gone through that journey. They say that what doesn\u2019t kill you makes you stronger, and I had some considerable learnings from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve also had some considerable learnings over my career with some of the governance roles that I\u2019ve had, with companies that I\u2019ve been at the decision-making table of, and, similarly, they have their ups and downs. Those types of journeys are something that I\u00A0bring to this House here, and that\u2019s why I\u2019m sitting as part of this Government, because this Government realises that we need to get our ship itself in good shape. When you look at the likes of our inflation rate, we know that it\u2019s outside of the band that we want it to be in. We look at our official cash rate; it is too high\u20145.5 percent. We need to get that down because we know that that affects interest rates, and we\u2019ve got to remember, basically, that just about every household that has a mortgage has had to renew its mortgage at far higher rates than they\u2019ve managed to actually appreciate in recent times. That\u2019s tough going for those households. They have to go out there and earn that extra cash just to pay their mortgage, not to actually do anything else. So they\u2019ve had to cut their cloth or get tighter in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EUnemployment, unfortunately, as a country, is creeping up, but we need to get our country stronger. If we look at our debt as a country, our debt as a percentage of GDP is\u00A0not where we want it to be. We want to bring it down lower. We need to make sacrifices. We need to make decisions to succeed or even just to survive. We need to look at behaviours. There\u2019s a number of farmers in the room, and I know that farming, over the decades, has had its challenges at times. They have their ups and downs. I think about the banks that support farmers. Now, banks look at behaviours, OK? A lot of farmers have big debts, but one behaviour that they won\u2019t want to see in hard times is farmers going and buying a new boat or a new car; they want them to be seen to be tightening their belts and making good decisions. That\u2019s no different to the Government. Our behaviour as a Government is being observed by credit rating agencies. We get that credit rating as a result of how we behave, and we need to be showing good fiscal discipline. That\u2019s what this Government is indeed doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003EI finish by saying that we are a Government that is going to deliver better public services and tax relief to New Zealanders who desperately need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022370be617553945b4ad42ed577e34fb20\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s coming your way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a6ff8eb85b14c4e921aec11b2707ed0\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD\u003C/span\u003E: It is indeed coming our way. But we also need to support the economy, because we need to earn a dollar to spend a dollar within that Public Service that we so dearly want to improve from today\u2019s state. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u00227658c346513b48369c596e7492275a07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227658c346513b48369c596e7492275a07\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m proud to be from the South, because we\u2019re a very hardy lot. Members may have heard the story of Binn Wharton, who is an injured fisherman. He gave up waiting for medical help after seven hours at Southland Hospital\u2019s emergency department in April. An off-duty nurse cleaned his wound the next day, but he had to return to the Southland emergency department with a suspected bloodstream infection. He had a really bad fever, he had nausea, he had swelling\u2014it was getting really risky. A patient advocate then tried to get him after-hours care, calling between 15 and 17 GPs, but none were available. There\u2019s no after-hours service in Invercargill, and he had to return to the emergency department. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EAnother GP service in Invercargill has just closed its doors because it couldn\u2019t get the staff. So if you live in Invercargill, if you haven\u2019t got a GP now, then you\u2019re simply out of luck for healthcare. We\u2019re a hardy lot in the deep South, but it\u2019s clear that health is a postcode lottery, so I want to hear about our chances of hitting the jackpot in this year\u2019s Budget. We\u2019ve got an ageing population, rural communities spread out, and a shared local ambition to have health services and infrastructure to provide for the deep South. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re experiencing in the deep South is a harbinger of the wider health crisis that we\u2019ve already heard about. I\u2019m not just talking about the disastrous repeal of the smoke-free legislation; I\u2019m talking about the failure to adequately fund GP services. Our accident and emergency departments are already overrun. They deal with emergencies as a priority. Anything less than an emergency should be dealt with by a GP or after hours, but a failure to adequately fund GP services means that they are just not available. Is this gap going to be funded? I\u2019m talking about health infrastructure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5edf0ed0305451891c0ca7567ff230f\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Not in North Shore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2efc55a7f3841279fdfba0580c2d7a2\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014specifically health infrastructure in the deep South. Yes, we\u2019ve got it in the North Shore. We\u2019re waiting for it in the deep South. National talked so big in 2023 about its promise to build the Dunedin Hospital so needed by the deep South. Since forming the Government, however, National and this Government seem happy to renege on their promise to Dunedin and the South. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI have asked repeatedly whether this Government will honour its promise to fully fund the Dunedin Hospital and deliver for the deep South. Dr Shane Reti promised to deliver\u00A0all the beds, operating theatres, and radiology services that Labour removed in 2023, and each time I have asked questions of this Government about funding, I\u2019ve been brushed off. I\u2019ve been brushed off on every question about funding the Dunedin Hospital,\u00A0yet as\u00A0Te Whatu Ora - Health New Zealand\u2019s briefing to the Minister in December last year\u00A0said, completion of the inpatient building in 2029 as planned is reliant on additional funding. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EDunedin Hospital is a regional tertiary hospital. It serves a large region\u2014the deep\u00A0South, a region this Government seems happy to ignore. Instead of ignoring the deep\u00A0South, the Government should ensure that, along with funding health services, the\u00A0teaching and education needs of the medical, nursing, and allied professionals are\u00A0included, rather than expecting other financially constrained institutions like the Otago\u00A0University to contribute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EWhen can we expect a signal that this Government cares about the deep South? When will the promise to provide the Dunedin Hospital that the South so desperately needs be honoured? These are the questions that we want to hear from the Government. When will this Government actually show it cares for the deep South? Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u0022b00a9c31a93a43e5a9f1e552d6741391\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b00a9c31a93a43e5a9f1e552d6741391\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Six months on\u2014it\u2019s been six months since the October 2023 election, and our New Zealand First team marked this milestone by getting across the country. We held our April tour, a grassroots tour, to provide the public with an update on the progress New Zealand First is making in Parliament and in Government. We are thankful to our supporters for the opportunity we have been afforded to advance the policy programme of New Zealand First and we ensure the values and principles of the party are represented in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EOur team has got on with the job and we are proud to be representing our supporters in bringing a practical, pragmatic, and nationalist voice to Parliament. A number of our caucus also make up roles in Government, ensuring New Zealand First\u2019s voice is represented at every level. We provide a voice in Parliament and in Government, but we also need to have our eye and ear out in the community. New Zealanders need their voices\u00A0heard and we will listen. New Zealand First understands the benefit and importance of engaging directly with the people and giving the public the opportunity to ask us questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EOur tour followed on from a massive state of the nation public meeting in Palmerston North before Easter, where our leader, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, addressed over 700 in attendance. My colleagues and I then continued on from the North to the South, meeting in community halls and talking to the locals. I was fortunate enough to attend meetings in Napier, Nelson, Blenheim, Timaru, Christchurch, and Dunedin and was able to speak to hundreds of everyday Kiwis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EAlong with the public meetings, we also had engagements with local stakeholders, business groups, technology organisations, residents, ratepayers, mayors, and workers. Now, what did we talk about? We gave them the good news\u2014the good news. We provided an update on what issues our teams have been working on, where we have had engagements across the country, what coalition commitments we\u2019ve achieved so far, but we also wanted to answer questions and understand what issues are important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe coalition agreement details over 100 commitments across a range of categories, which forms the basis of our involvement in the Government, and we have been steadfast in maintaining those commitments even in the face of difficult challenges. We\u2019ve achieved or have an ongoing commitment to cancel Auckland light rail and Let\u2019s Get\u00A0Wellington Moving. We\u2019ve repealed the Natural and Built Environment Act and repealed the Spatial Planning Act 2023. We\u2019ve committed to moderate increases to the minimum wage each year. We\u2019ve kept the superannuation age at 65. We reserved the rights against the proposed amendments to the World Health Organization health regulations to allow the incoming Government to consider these against a national interest test. We have protected freedom of speech by ruling out the induction of hate speech legislation, and we stopped the Law Commission\u2019s work on hate speech legislation. We stopped all that work on He Puapua, required the Public Service and Crown entities to communicate primarily in English, except those specifically related to M\u0101ori. We have Public Service departments moving to change their names primarily to English. We have committed that in the absence of a referendum our Government will not change the official name of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EAnd we have made a start on many more, such as the COVID inquiry\u2014what these guys don\u2019t want to see\u2014the investigation into Marsden Point, and the work to repeal the Therapeutic Products Act. We\u2019ve had great feedback from those people that we have\u00A0spoken to. We have had great support in the job that our team are doing. They agree with our leader, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, that we bring the steel to the Government and that there are many issues that our supporters are watching with anticipation. New Zealand First has plenty of work to do and our team will get on with\u00A0that job. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1a3ce1632a44b5bb7f6de2019a6ab7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1a3ce1632a44b5bb7f6de2019a6ab7b\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to start by saying that I hope everyone in the country on our farms that has been desperate for rain is finally receiving a drop or two as I speak. But I\u2019m not here to talk about the rain today; I\u2019m here to talk about something just as topical and front of mind for a large part of the population, and that is education, and it\u2019s a future for our children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003ELast year, I was elected to Parliament to represent the people of the Wairarapa, and I\u00A0hear on a daily basis how important education is to my constituents. First and foremost, before being an MP or a farmer, I\u2019m a father. I have four amazing children, all of whom are now adults and have flown the nest\u2014with the exception of all the times they turned up back at the house, announced or otherwise. But our kids have had the privilege of a world-class State education which has set them up to do whatever they choose to do. They didn\u2019t attend a private school, but they turned up at school every day and they did their\u00A0homework. When I look at our children, I see firsthand what can happen when a child turns up at school each day and is taught the basics well. This is what makes me passionate about educational success, because I truly do believe that every child should have the opportunity to reach their potential, no matter who their parents are or what their postcode is. Outcomes matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EWhen the last National Government came into power in 2008, nearly one in two students were leaving school without NCEA level 2 and, by the time we left, level 2 achievement rose to more than four in five. Surprise, surprise\u2014after six years of neglect, the previous administration left office with NCEA achievement falling across every level, three years in a row. To put this in perspective, barely six out of 10 year 11 students, or fifth-form children, passed NCEA level 1 last year. Worst of all, less than two in 100\u00A0decile 1 high school students were able to pass the most basic writing test.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EIn my opinion, the single greatest thing the Government can do to break intergenerational welfare dependency and poverty is to provide every child with a world-class education, allowing them the opportunity of employment, allowing them purpose and independence rather than becoming dependent on the State, because no one wins from State dependency. That means getting kids to school. In term 2 last year, less than half of students consistently attended school. This Government\u2019s committed to achieving 80 percent school attendance and getting back to teaching the basics brilliantly, as part of our plan to get New Zealand back on track. And it\u2019s working\u2014it\u2019s\u00A0working. Just this week, we\u2019ve banned cellphones in school, and the feedback I\u2019ve had from parents in my electorate is great. Parents want these kids to go to school to learn, not to sit on their phones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EOur kids need role models at home. While we should be proud of our social security net, modelling shows jobseeker beneficiaries are now predicted to spend an average of 13 years. That is simply not good enough. That\u2019s a social and an economic disaster. New Zealand is a country of hard-working folk who go to work, pay their fair share of tax, and get ahead through hard work and commitment. So that\u2019s why we\u2019ve also set a target to reduce the number of people on the jobseeker benefit by 50,000 by 2030, because a basic education will open doors to employment and career pathways\u2014everyone wins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EI come to this House as a proud sheep and beef farmer. Nearly one in six New Zealanders are employed in the food and fibre industry, and I\u2019ve had the privilege to pass my knowledge on to dozens of young farm hands, most of whom have progressed into farm leaders right across our industry. Agriculture is just one of the sectors that relies on the next generation of kids. We know, if these kids are equipped with a good education that allows them to continue to grow their skills, they will continue this country\u2019s legacy of delivering the best primary produce to the world in the most environmentally friendly manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank the members of the Opposition who sit with me on the Education and Workforce Committee, and, together, I look forward to working collaboratively with you to ensure this House is focused on setting our kids up to succeed in tomorrow\u2019s world. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00227448959928864237a0e6bb993cf6a94d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227448959928864237a0e6bb993cf6a94d\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am deeply, deeply concerned for the children of Aotearoa. In the six months of this coalition Government, we have seen this Government introduce policies that will put more children in poverty, that will cut school lunches, that will repeal world-leading smoke-free legislation which would have seen a smoke-free generation for our tamariki. We are seeing them repealing legislation that the Waitangi Tribunal says will do harm\u2014in repealing section 7AA. We see them going backwards to failed experiments of boot camps and military-style academies to deal with youth justice issues, experimenting on our tamariki. And we have just recently heard of significant deep cuts to organisations like Oranga Tamariki, the Department of Internal Affairs, and Customs, who are all doing important work in protecting our children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI want to start by talking about how this Government is taking us backwards in terms of the repeal of section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. This was a piece of policy introduced by the National Government, because they recognised that for generations there have been disproportionate numbers of tamariki M\u0101ori taken into care and that there are huge disparities within the child protection organisation and system. It was their legislation that they introduced and now they are repealing it. And they are repealing it on the basis of what has been described as anecdote, hearsay, and political ideology. It was been said in the Waitangi Tribunal\u2019s interim report that there is no\u2014no\u2014empirical evidence to support that there is any conflict between section 7AA and the best interests of the child, and, in fact, the evidence presented says it is to the contrary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI implore the Prime Minister, who the report was addressed to, to take pause to listen to what the Waitangi Tribunal has said, to stop the repeal of section 7AA\u2014and that there are other options to look at these areas where they may have concerns. They have said that they will be introducing this legislation potentially next week. I am asking this Government to stop, to take pause, and to seriously consider the interim report from the Waitangi Tribunal, which says the action of repealing section 7AA will cause harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI want to move on to the cuts within Oranga Tamariki, because these cuts are about choices. This organisation is being told to find 6.5 percent savings. Why is that? It\u2019s so that they can pay for tax cuts for landlords. That\u2019s what this is about. They are making a choice here, and so, in looking for savings within the department, Oranga Tamariki has\u00A0identified over 600 roles, and 447 of those are going to be cut; almost 9 percent of the\u00A0organisation is being cut at the direction of this Government. And when we look at what some of those things are that they\u2019re cutting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f74327af4c440749082e0d283f58cf6\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Back office\u2014back office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7b6a3c3dbab46a09add6f10696a1f9f\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to the backbencher over there\u2014it\u2019s appalling and it\u2019s unbelievable that they are looking at cutting the International Child Protection Unit that focuses on child labour exploitation and slavery, sexual exploitation, child trafficking. The cuts are going too far. This risks us taking our eyes off these highly sensitive issues, and children\u2019s wellbeing is at grave risk here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think this is what New Zealanders voted for. I don\u2019t think they voted for rushed repeals that are taking us backwards, that have been said by the Waitangi Tribunal to actually cause harm. I don\u2019t think they support cutting services like the International Child Protection Unit, or including the child exploitation team at Internal Affairs, which has been looking into child pornography. I do not think that is what New Zealand has voted for. I think that this Government has got its priorities wrong and their cuts are going too far, and I\u2019m deeply concerned for the children of Aotearoa who are being put at risk and harm by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002271ac166ee4604e5cb8a8dd469be08b11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271ac166ee4604e5cb8a8dd469be08b11\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2022/23 Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d69493984f147a09fe78336abfaeab5\u0022\u003EAnnual Review Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c407c971744a4aa0a8c7f0bc7dada217\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000353\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 31 May on the Appropriation (2022/23 Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002240d65ae9e0b24a68bf77653e11ac31c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240d65ae9e0b24a68bf77653e11ac31c7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2022/23 Confirmation and Validation) Bill. This is the debate on the financial position of the Government and the annual reviews of Parliament, Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises as reported on by select committees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThere are seven hours and 33 minutes remaining in this debate. New Zealand National has two hours and 40 minutes remaining. New Zealand Labour has two hours and 12\u00A0minutes remaining. The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand has 54 minutes remaining. ACT New Zealand has 49 minutes remaining. New Zealand First has 37\u00A0minutes remaining. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori has 27 minutes remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EStanding Orders 356(2) and (3) have been set aside so that there will be no sector-specific debates; instead, specific Ministers will be available each day to respond to specific portfolios. The Government has indicated that the Minister for Social Development and Employment, the Minister of Education, and the Minister of Transport will be available today to respond to members\u2019 questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EEach debate will be led off by the chairperson or another member of the committee that considered annual reviews most closely related to the Minister\u2019s portfolios. These speeches should be a non-political report back to the committee from the select committee. The Minister for Social Development and Employment is here first for 45\u00A0minutes to respond to members\u2019 questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002201b490ee1910455da11736b0d9a9d457\u0022\u003ESocial Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022d36455ec62074c26a152efb1d09beff5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d36455ec62074c26a152efb1d09beff5\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair, and thank you for the opportunity to report back as the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee. I just want to take the opportunity at the very beginning to acknowledge my colleagues on that committee, a hard-working committee who are all committed to better results for New Zealand. I also want to thank the clerk and her team, the Auditor-General\u2019s office for its contribution, and the ministry and their team as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EI just wanted to reflect a little on the report back to the House, and I just note that the core purpose of the Ministry of Social Development is helping New Zealanders to be \u201Csafe, strong and independent.\u201D I\u2019ll just outline some of the key functions, which include income support and superannuation, employment services and support, funding and support to community service providers, student allowances and loans, social housing assistance and services, providing social policy advice to Government, hosting Whaikaha - Ministry of Disabled People, emergency response services, and monitoring three Crown entities and providing advice to the responsible Minister. So quite a bit involved in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn 2022-23, the ministry\u2019s non-departmental expenditure was $37.88 billion; that\u2019s compared to $38.24 billion in the year preceding that. Superannuation and the four main benefits\u2014jobseeker support, accommodation assistance, sole parent support, and the supported living payment\u2014accounted for the bulk of that expenditure. Superannuation was the largest single cost, costing over $19.52 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn the Auditor-General\u2019s standard audit report for the 2022-23 year, the Auditor-General noted that the ministry\u2019s financial information and supporting systems and controls were good. However, he rated the ministry\u2019s management control environment as needing improvement, noting that major improvements need to be made at the earliest reasonable opportunity and recommending improvements to appropriation management, recruitment and contract management, information systems controls, and identification and recovery of\u00A0overpayments through the COVID-19 wage subsidy programme. And just on that, we also heard about Te Pae Tawhiti - Our Future, which is the ministry\u2019s multi-year programme to improve its services through major upgrades to its digital systems and processes. The ministry has so far allocated $183 million to cover the first two years of the programme. We noted that the overall cost of the programme is projected to cost somewhere between $2.1 and $2.6 billion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThere was some discussion that we had at select committee\u2014and reported back to the House\u2014on the ministry\u2019s digital systems and the need to update them, with the ministry reporting that it used several old and outdated systems which were described \u201Cas systems built on top of systems\u201D. For example, the ministry\u2019s core payment system, SWIFTT, is over 40 years old and was introduced before both the internet and EFTPOS. The ministry believes that by improving its digital systems it will be able to respond faster to change and make processes less complicated for its clients. Through this programme, it hopes to futureproof the welfare system both now and into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn terms of welfare dependency, the Minister told us that she wanted the welfare system to be a safety net in times of need and she wanted to break the cycles of intergenerational welfare dependency. We heard that one way to reduce the cycle of welfare dependency is by encouraging paid employment, with the Minister highlighting one of the principles of the Social Security Act being that work and paid employment offers the best opportunity for people to achieve social and economic wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EWe heard about work-related sanctions, and we were interested to hear about what the ministry does in that respect, and reasons given for failure to attend, etc. We also heard about work seminars which are intended to connect job seekers with potential employers in their regions and encourage people into work. We reported that we\u2019d be interested in seeing future work to monitor the efficacy of these work seminars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn terms of the social sector\u2019s staff capacity, we heard the ministry employed just over 9,000 fulltime-equivalent staff with just over 7,000 providing front-line services to New Zealand. We also heard that the ministry had seen a decrease in demand for emergency housing in the last financial year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn terms of COVID-19, we heard that 70,000 people went on to a benefit in a three- or four-month period, and that the ministry was still conducting fraud investigation work to ensure that all those who received the subsidy were entitled to it. The ministry had noticed high levels of depression, anxiety, and other mental health - related issues as barriers to getting people into work since the COVID-19 outbreak. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022521a37374d03437db9aee184378c3a9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022521a37374d03437db9aee184378c3a9f\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Can I thank the Minister for her appearance today. I just have a couple of questions for the Minister in terms of M\u0101ori employment. I would just like to know if the Minister supports the community-centric approach like the Whakaw\u0101tea te ara Poutama programme that targets young people, rangatahi, with gang affiliations and criminal histories. This programme was very successful when we were in Government, and I would like to know, is there ongoing support for that? We\u2019ve got these gang members with criminal histories\u2014it supports them into employment and training. Will she continue to ensure that funding for the programme will continue to support families moving forward?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EAlso, to the Minister, will she commit to the ongoing funding for Mana in Mahi, which has been successful in keeping people from long-term benefit dependency and also has been stated as a major priority for this Government? So just a couple of questions in that\u00A0area to kick off in terms of the M\u0101ori employment area. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002229333548c52342ee8ee3ed795497a205\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229333548c52342ee8ee3ed795497a205\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E So, firstly, because this is a debate on the annual review for the financial year 2022-23, it is to the year 30 June 2023. So I won\u2019t be answering any questions that take a forward view or indicate what future funding might look like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWhat I can say of the time in review is that Mana in Mahi was a significant investment to support M\u0101ori into employment, to ensure that more people were connected with ongoing training opportunities. Of course, given that in the time in review we, unfortunately, did see an explosion of the jobseeker benefits, we want to see programmes that are getting outcomes to support people into employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00223523fdf905764e9282d3df00e5bd0fbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223523fdf905764e9282d3df00e5bd0fbe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before we continue, I\u2019ve had my attention drawn to Speaker\u2019s ruling 147/2. It deals with future-focused questions for annual reviews. The purpose of this procedure is to examine the performance of an organisation, not to ask speculative questions that are unrelated to its performance, administration, or expenditure, so let\u2019s be clear about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EHowever, there would be value in greater scrutiny of organisations\u2019 progress against their strategic intentions and what plans and intentions they have for further progress. So, bearing that in mind, if you\u2019re going to ask questions that are future-focused, they must be about the progress of strategic intentions within the scope of the annual review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5a4b9411d7b49e599a3c109da71a126\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5a4b9411d7b49e599a3c109da71a126\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. So I wanted to draw attention to an issue that\u2019s been talked about a lot, which is young people on the\u00A0benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf we look back at the period that we\u2019re reviewing, there was the Taylor Fry report, a report that looked at several things but included making forecasts on future years that people will be spending on the benefit. This report looked at the period we\u2019re reviewing; so, even though it was forecasting in the future, it was done at that time and using figures of the time. I wanted to draw on that report, because a lot has been said about young people\u2019s experience on the benefit, and this report particularly touches on, effectively, 0.5\u00A0percent of the population who are on the benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EHalf of those are predicted to potentially be on the benefit for 24 years, and other reports that show similar data point out that there are seven risk factors that could contribute to people on benefit spending 24 years on it. In that other report, those people would have to meet those seven risk factors, including being discharged from a public hospital, having legal action taken against them by the police, being in the youth justice system when they were 13 to 18 years old, had a parent or guardian who was receiving a benefit, hadn\u2019t interacted with Oranga Tamariki, had not achieved qualifications equivalent to the National Certificate of Educational Achievements level 2 or higher, and was stood down or suspended while at school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo these are the seven risk factors someone would have to meet to then be predicted to be on the benefit for 24 years. My question to the Minister is whether she thinks that enough has been done to address those risk factors rather than taking a sensationalist approach, which is what we\u2019re seeing right now regarding how we talk about young people on the benefit who\u2014those who are predicted to spend a long time needing that income support actually come from backgrounds where they\u2019ve been failed by multiple parts of the system. So my question is whether she thinks her priority in terms of meeting the strategic goals should be rather focused on addressing those risk factors instead of, for example, creating more mechanisms to increase benefit sanctions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EOn benefit sanctions, I did want to ask whether she is confident the benefit sanctions regime works as intended. I note that there is no empirical evidence in New Zealand that supports benefit sanctions actually supporting people into employment, and that the overseas evidence is pretty mixed. So I\u2019m keen to get an understanding about what evidence she has seen during that period about benefit sanctions actually working to support people into employment. And, if not, how can she have confidence that all the benefit sanctions that were applied during that period actually were supporting people rather than just leaving them in hardship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to also, on the topic of employment, ask a question in relationship to the Mana in Mahi scheme. Is the Minister confident that the scheme was working well, and, if so, can I just ask if the Minister is concerned that there\u2019s not enough data around the types of wages that people go into? And does she think that young people should be going to well-paying employment, and, if so, is she confident that the data that\u2019s available for that period actually substantiates the type of employment\u2014and good employment\u2014that people may or may not be going into?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EFinally, does she think that work seminars are good value for money? There is no evidence and/or reports around collation of reports about the outcomes that people experience once they attend those work seminars when it comes to actually then getting jobs. We\u2019ve heard the\u00A0Minister talk about interviews, but nothing about the types of jobs they go into. So I\u2019m keen to understand whether she has seen any evidence beyond the anecdotal random examples that\u00A0she\u2019s quoted, seeing as she hasn\u2019t even been able to provide the advice that she\u2019s received\u00A0on those handful of examples she\u2019s provided. I\u2019ll end those questions for now and I\u2019ll pick up on some of those later in other contributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3946583afdf4ba3b0031e07554f8223\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3946583afdf4ba3b0031e07554f8223\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Let me take a wander through the various areas that the member\u00A0asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll start with the Taylor Fry report, which of course does look back at the year in review, which is up to 30 June 2023. I\u2019m pleased the member asked this question, because what the Taylor Fry report highlights is increasing numbers of dependency. So, in the period in review, we not only saw an increase in the number of people on the jobseeker benefit in the 5\u00BD years up to that point\u2014an increase in 50,000 people\u2014but we saw more people staying on welfare for longer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ELet me give you some of those figures so they are on the record\u2014and these are the average estimated future years on main benefit to the age of 65. It is a performance indicator that the Ministry of Social Development is required to report on, and it is an indicator of their success as an organisation. So jobseeker support across all categories: in September 2017, the estimate was 9.3 years\u2014it went up to 12.7 years. For jobseeker support under 25\u00A0years, it was 12.12 years\u2014went up to 18.9 years. The member referred specifically to those on the youth payment or the young parent payment, and the estimate in September 2017 was 15.2 years\u2014and went up to 24 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThese figures are pretty disturbing, and I wanted to deliberately\u2014in the answer to the member\u2019s question\u2014put them on the record in the committee. I know the member will have read the Taylor Fry report. It is about looking at the lifetime future years estimated on benefit. So for each of those categories, we\u2019ve seen a significant increase in the number of years, and that should worry every member in this House\u2014it should worry every member in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226301e47c68214f71bcb9eb53f08904de\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a prediction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022904fddde97584c17b735c7b52acc4454\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I particularly focus on those on jobseeker support\u2014and the member may interrupt and talk about the fact that it is a small percentage; it is a small number. But what we do know is for that group who have a bunch of challenges, they are the ones that are more likely to bounce on and off welfare throughout their lifetime, which is why we get to an average future estimated years on benefit of 24 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe member also referred to Mana in Mahi. One of the things that we have to look at in terms of performance and in terms of delivery is whether or not the programmes are delivering for the different groups that are currently on the jobseeker benefit. For some, Mana in Mahi is doing that. If you look at some of the barriers to employment, we need to ensure that the Ministry of Social Development is delivering programmes that meet the\u00A0needs, that address the barriers. Because the end goal\u2014and I\u2019d be surprised if there was anyone in this House who didn\u2019t agree that we want to see more people who are able to be independent of the State. So we have a range of programmes\u2014one of them was mentioned in terms of Mana in Mahi, and it absolutely takes into account some of the\u00A0factors that occur in a person\u2019s life that are affecting their ability to be successful in\u00A0employment or gaining employment, which is absolutely why those are programmes that are funded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EJust on that, one of the other elements of the work that was started in the time under review is the social sector commissioning. It started slowly, there is great promise, and I think there is greater opportunity to deal with the challenges of the young people that the member who asked the questions raised to ensure we are meeting their needs. Those are local solutions that absolutely respond to local challenges, and that\u2019s where I see community providers and iwi providers really having some of the answers in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe member also asked about sanctions. In the year in review, the number of sanctions imposed\u2014or the number of clients that had a sanction imposed was 20,000\u2014[Bell rung]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbf6b076ab3749748c3cfba7b3318360\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Louise Upston.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205c0474bc2994435b3a7818f4dca89fd\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Chair. I just think, for those listening, it\u2019s useful to talk a little bit more about why sanctions are imposed. So if someone is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ee618b6e58144d3936d606825f633e5\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Do you have evidence it works?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0f0d2aee0284ef2814d65b653abfa5a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014on the jobseeker benefit\u2014yep. So in terms of the evidence of it working, when there are no consequences of somebody not taking steps to be in employment, there\u2019s no surprise they won\u2019t be in employment. So there was a direct correlation. There is a direct correlation and the data tells us job seeker numbers went up when sanctions went down\u2014pretty clear. What we do know is that if people don\u2019t turn up to job interviews, if they don\u2019t have a CV, if they\u2019re not turning up to Work and Income and engaging with employers through things like seminars, work expos, their chances of finding employment are definitely lower. Which is why we have rights and responsibilities, we have expectations about what job seekers do to help themselves, and there are consequences or sanctions when they don\u2019t take those necessary steps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThe final question was around work seminars, and one of the questions was around evidence about work seminars working. Well, I can tell the member this: there\u2019s a variety of work seminars; they run differently in different offices and in different regions. Some have employers turning up every week on a Wednesday for an hour, others have Connect, which is a cross-agency opportunity to connect those who come in to Work and Income with training opportunities; might be they need assistance with a driver licence, so they can be connected with a community provider who\u2019s providing the driver-licensing education to help them address those barriers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESo at an individual level\u2014and I\u2019ve been talking with lots of front-line workers over\u00A0the last couple of months: they have those records; they know when somebody has attended a work seminar and it\u2019s led to an employment outcome, they know that.\u00A0What we don\u2019t collect is combined cumulative data about the outcome of work\u00A0seminars. That is the only\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221706369e1faa432fbff20c29f03d1500\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: So how do you know they\u2019re working?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe52fe8473e545efa493391bfc318509\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Because employers go to meet job seekers at work expos and work seminars, and they end up in a job. That\u2019s a win, to me. I know that member may not want to see more Kiwis in work, but I definitely do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002232f6a4e5db0540e489d9e558de1499c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232f6a4e5db0540e489d9e558de1499c8\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll take my second and final call. I really appreciate the Minister\u2019s hot takes on sanctions, but she didn\u2019t present any research or empirical evidence about whether they work, so I\u2019ll ask my question again succinctly. Does she have any empirical evidence in New Zealand that the New Zealand sanctions regime actually supports people into employment, beyond her hot takes? Because we have seen sanctions gradually increase, including in the periods that we\u2019re reviewing, so I\u2019m curious to know whether she can substantiate whether that increase is backed by evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESecondly, I also note that she dumped a bunch of figures regarding the Taylor Fry report, but those are useful to be put in the context of the recent statements by the Prime Minister, who talked about, for example, under-24s spending, on average, 24 years on the benefit. That is simply not backed up by the research. The Prime Minister\u2019s statements where he talks about \u201Cpeople on the youth benefit \u2018are now languishing\u2019 on welfare for an average of 24\u00A0years.\u201D\u2014that\u2019s also not backed up by the Taylor Fry report; that\u2019s a forecast. They are not now languishing 24 years on the benefit. So I\u2019m curious to know whether the Minister is confident that the Government MPs who are quoting that report are actually using it in a way that accurately describes its findings or whether this report, produced in the period we\u2019re reviewing, is simply being used to scapegoat young people on the benefit, rather than accurately portraying the figures that are there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ELastly, I\u2019m curious to know whether the Minister is concerned about the growing level of debt to the Ministry of Social Development by people on the benefit, and whether she thinks that the growing level of debt, disproportionately carried by women and M\u0101ori, and including a growing level of debt in seniors and people in work, is something that\u00A0she\u2019s concerned about? We\u2019ve seen an increase of not just the total debt but the average repayments during the period that we\u2019re reviewing. And so I\u2019m curious to know how, if at all, those figures will affect her goals in Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7cc7047d8c2400683c905b6088b1e9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7cc7047d8c2400683c905b6088b1e9d\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m not going to go back over questions that I have already addressed. I do want to come to the question of debt that the member raised, because it is very concerning\u2014the level of debt that we are seeing. And also, if you look at the period of time that we are referring to and the years before that, we have seen\u2014just let me get my figures right\u2014in terms of the number of hardship assistance, that the number of hardship assistance provided nearly doubled, and the value of the hardship assistance nearly trebled. So what is really concerning in the year in review was that we did see increasing need and that is absolutely connected to the level of debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EWhat we do know to be a contributing factor absolutely is the massive increase in the cost of living. That is why addressing the cost of living, when the coalition Government came in, was and still is the number one priority. Otherwise, we will see families, households, individuals who have fixed incomes on benefit doing it the toughest. That is also why there needs to be more of a focus on supporting people into employment so that they will have higher incomes. And when people are in work, we will not see this escalation in the level of debt that we have seen. So, absolutely, I\u2019m concerned. It is a problem. It\u2019s connected to the cost of living crisis, and it\u2019s connected, unfortunately, to the fact that we\u2019ve seen a massive increase in the number of people on the jobseeker benefit staying there for longer, and a related connection to the increase both in the number of hardship assistance that\u2019s provided and the value. So doing nothing isn\u2019t an option. That is absolutely why we have to go back to the principles of the Social Security Act, which is about supporting people to be preparing for or to be in work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac0a86d2766e4f2a8cae55ca22fd3d74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac0a86d2766e4f2a8cae55ca22fd3d74\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to ask a brief question in relation to the good work that the Ministry of Social Development has done in funding some of the youth programmes that we\u2019ve seen. In particular, the multi-agency teams in South Auckland have run programmes such as Kotahi te Whakaaro, and also in\u00A0West Auckland, the West Auckland Multi-Disciplinary Cross Agency Team, where we\u2019re seeing really good outcomes from there. We\u2019ve seen that more than 70 percent of\u00A0children successfully completing those programmes are not re-referred or don\u2019t go on\u00A0to\u00A0be referred to those programmes. What I\u2019m interested to know from the Minister is:\u00A0given the success of these programmes, what is her view as to the ongoing commitment to see these outcomes in our communities, and the ongoing commitment to continue these programmes into the next financial year? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00220a0447cb0e754960ba142ee6c11e7ac7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a0447cb0e754960ba142ee6c11e7ac7\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I don\u2019t have the data in front of me around the programmes that the member referred to. But if I go back to the comments I made in response to Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s questions: absolutely, we need to make sure that initiatives, particularly for those on the young parent payment and the youth payment, and job seekers under the age of 25 are getting support in a way that responds best to their needs. That\u2019s what we need to ensure that we focus on so that we\u2019re able to create greater opportunities for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022e9f5d7fd7d9e42ad9532ffc98420d97a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e9f5d7fd7d9e42ad9532ffc98420d97a\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m just interested to know also, in a similar vein, with regard to the prevention of family and sexual violence, the Ministry of Social Development has, over the past six years, invested a\u00A0substantial amount of money into different groups, whether they be iwi organisations or women\u2019s refuges, that have enabled on-the-ground investment into the prevention of family and sexual violence. That is underpinned by Te Aorerekura, with the six shifts that are specified in that plan. I\u2019m interested to know from the Minister about the ongoing commitment for programmes that have come under this, such as E\u00A0T\u016B\u00A0Wh\u0101nau and Pasefika Proud. What is the Minister\u2019s view as to the ongoing funding of those sexual violence and family violence programmes, which have been working very effectively within communities? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022f65a720d34484b99bb2af2a5aa2b81b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f65a720d34484b99bb2af2a5aa2b81b9\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I feel like the previous member who spoke, the Hon Ginny Andersen, almost has to repeat that whole contribution because I don\u2019t think the Minister for Social Development and Employment was able to concentrate on what she was saying. But I\u2019d like to ask a question about the Independent Children\u2019s Monitor Aroturuki - Tamariki, which sits under the Ministry of Social Development. We know that they have done initial reports on monitoring\u2014three experience of care reports and two in-depth review reports have also been produced. I\u2019m just wondering if the Minister sees that there is a need to require a separate agency for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u0022023e82ce5604440b8ab46b1ec732698f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022023e82ce5604440b8ab46b1ec732698f\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you Mr Chair, for the opportunity. Minister, it\u2019s been helpful to understand this period in review. I specifically want to ask about the programmes that are beneficial to Pasifika communities. The last Government invested over $27 million to help Pacific people gain employment, and I\u00A0have a specific question around the Toloa Science, Technology, Engineering, Arts, and Maths programme; Tupu Aotearoa; and the Pacific Work Connect service: will the Government continue to invest? Because I\u2019ve seen in my local community the benefits of these programmes to help our Pasifika people. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022d756d25fb4184aad8e5e6e938e37c406\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d756d25fb4184aad8e5e6e938e37c406\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Chair. I just want to check, during the last question I asked, it did appear that the Minister for Social Development and Employment was talking to one of the National whips for the entire time I was asking it. I was just wondering if it was possible that I\u2019d have the opportunity of re-asking my question, given I don\u2019t think the Minister heard it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225190ee61e6814d34a61062f74baf745a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, if you can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d70f93e5aa1540fa85cbc2c2ac3015fc\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Should I wait till that one, or how\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228135e6df9c884deb9b306938b8b9fe34\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s take this question, and then the next contribution will be from you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcfb3ad080b24a1c866893be8eabbfc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcfb3ad080b24a1c866893be8eabbfc5\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr. Chair. On the Independent Children\u2019s Monitor, obviously, there have been concerns raised about whether or not the location of it being in the Education Review Office really enabled it to be as independent as it needs to be as part of the oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system. That wasn\u2019t raised in the Social Services and Community Committee\u2019s review\u2014I don\u2019t recall. But I can say that I share the widespread concerns about the lack of independence of the Independent Children\u2019s Monitor. They do really important work, but the perception of a lack of independence, given it is housed in the Education Review Office, is a significant concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EIn terms of specific Pacific employment initiatives, rather than going through individual programmes, I\u2019ll just reiterate that we are clear about the fact that we want to continue to invest in initiatives that support people into employment. There will be a particular focus on young people. Where those programmes are getting the outcomes and supporting people into employment\u2014that\u2019s what we want to see more of, clearly. I\u2019m not going to name programmes and future plans\u2014those are for other debates. But I want to assure the member that the coalition Government is absolutely and very deliberately focused on how we can provide more New Zealanders with the choices and opportunities that come through being in work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002237fc4ee8258340aa90d39da6690058a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237fc4ee8258340aa90d39da6690058a7\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. I just wanted to clarify: Te Aorerekura, the national strategy to eliminate family violence and sexual violence, has been a new thing for New Zealand over the last few years and has been working very well. In the action plan, it stipulates six specific changes. I\u2019m interested to know from the Minister whether she stands by the action plan and those six shifts that need to occur. And, alongside of that, those programmes in place in the community, such as E T\u016B Wh\u0101nau and Pasefika Proud, that benefit directly from those six shifts\u2014does she stand by and support this programme which has been in place, and does she intend to continue the good work that has been occurring in communities to date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00227528e801502d46d5bc55a8a60b4c7de1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227528e801502d46d5bc55a8a60b4c7de1\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m happy to speak on the areas of my responsibility. I\u2019m not the Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence; that is another Minister\u2019s responsibility. But, in terms of the two programmes that the member referred to, we absolutely want to see emphasis where there is a family violence prevention initiative. Programmes like E T\u016B Wh\u0101nau have been under way for many years, and what we want to see is continued effort where there is prevention work occurring in communities that are suitable to the community\u2019s needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022b76a4652c853401c999d0a672a1d9dee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b76a4652c853401c999d0a672a1d9dee\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just acknowledge what the Minister was saying earlier with regards to guarantees, obviously, in funding. So I accept what she was saying with regards to projections, but it is important for us to find out if the Government is going to support specific programmes. Because when I was employment Minister, I picked up He Poutama Rangatahi, which was actually a National Party initiative that was put on hold back around 2017. So I appreciate and I understand what the Minister\u2019s saying in terms of supporting the principle of, obviously, any programme that might make sure and ensure that young people are taken off the benefit. But we know, as the previous Government, that specific programmes were able to do that, and so that\u2019s why we\u2019ve asked the questions about Mana in Mahi. And I do want to ask the question about He Poutama Rangatahi that saw over 12,000 young people engaged in the programme, resulting in 77 percent of those young people\u201477 percent, Minister\u2014engaging in employment, education, or training.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI know for a fact that that was a priority for the Minister in her time as Opposition, always pushing that area in terms of employment, education, and training. So it\u2019s important to get on record what the Government\u2019s commitment is to the specific programme of He\u00A0Poutama Rangatahi. Also, I\u2019m not quite sure if the Minister has answered the question I put\u00A0forward earlier: does she support community-centric approaches\u2014a community-centric approach like the Whakaw\u0101tea te ara Poutama programme that targets young people\u00A0with gang affiliations and criminal history? So I wanted to get on record the Minister\u2019s response to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EAlso, in our time in Government, we brought back the very, very popular M\u0101ori trade-training programme which has been a huge success for M\u0101ori, particularly through the 1960s, 1970s\u2014we had so many young M\u0101ori who took up the M\u0101ori trade-training programme. Again, in our time as Government, we brought that back and that saw 79\u00A0percent of those who participated in that programme gain positive employment outcomes. That\u2019s a very significant percentage; 85 percent retaining employment for at least six months. And we committed over $95 million for the fund which delivered 63\u00A0M\u0101ori-lead projects and will support over 4,000 M\u0101ori across Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ENow, again, I appreciate the Minister can\u2019t talk too much about the budgets, but will she commit to ensuring\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f7f6051e0c44661a4e2671a4444b7cb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Willie Jackson, is there a question in there? We\u2019re on the clock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb5968fdb31e4bbc9de4adb04c2a21b5\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, will she commit to continuing these programmes which will continue the positive outcomes? That\u2019s the question. But the question is these specific programmes, what I would like to get from the Minister is: will she continue with the support of these specific programmes? Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00222e3ec58b574a41fe967db235bba7835a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e3ec58b574a41fe967db235bba7835a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, our time with the Minister for Social Development and Employment has ended. The Minister for Education is now available for 45 minutes to respond to members\u2019 questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002295fe87932ccd41219e41e5ba75f5c20c\u0022\u003EEducation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef206defaed14eb5acfad3c057572593\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef206defaed14eb5acfad3c057572593\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (Chairperson of the Education and Workforce Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to stand up and speak to the education sector annual reviews, just acknowledging, obviously, the first annual reviews of this 54th Parliament. The process was fairly spread out, comparative to normal times, which made for a bit of a lengthy process for the Education and Workforce Committee. I think, regardless, the committee did very well to hear from a wide range of education sector organisations. There was a robust line of questioning, shared quite well between both the Government and the Opposition. I also note that the committee heard from both the Minister of Education and the Associate Minister of Education\u2014given the nature of the portfolio spread\u2014as well as the Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills, which provided a good overview of not only what has happened in the last year that this period is reviewing but also the strategic intent, which has been outlined by the Standing Orders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019d like to do is take the committee of the whole House through an overview of what was discussed, given that there will be some questions following my time here. So it\u2019s very helpful for me to give an overview for those listening or watching from home. Of course, we had the priorities of the education sector, but just to let those listening know, the agencies and organisations that we heard from were: the Ministry of Education, the Tertiary Education Commission, the Education Review Office, the New Zealand Qualifications Authority, Education New Zealand, Education Payroll Ltd, and Network for Learning\u2014some in-depth, some in a standard review format, some in a review briefing format, and some pro forma. Of course, it\u2019s worth noting that the time reviewed was during the time of the former Government, which did make for an interesting hearing process, but that has none the less been robust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EWe focused a lot on student achievement, talking about structured literacy, talking about a refreshed NCEA, addressing student achievement, and charter schools. We focused on the administrative pressures on education providers and funding in the sector. We focused on vocational education with Te P\u016Bkenga university and then, of course, the fees-free scheme, which was of great interest to the committee. Additionally, when we focused specifically on the Ministry of Education, of course there was a question on financial performance, but most interestingly, on non-financial performance. Some of the more interesting or major issues that were considered by the committee were early learning and the pathway to school\u2014and, of course, early learning and its regulatory requirements, which will be of no surprise to most people. Additionally: providing learning support, refreshing the national curriculum, supporting teachers to deliver that curriculum and those outcomes, addressing student achievement, and, quite interesting to the committee, declining school attendance. Obviously, that covered not just attendance via what you would typically think of but also school transport and how that fitted in as well. We talked about investing in the workforce within education, empowering school leaders and principals; not surprisingly, property, the National Education Growth Plan, property maintenance, and enabling a devolved system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EOf course, of high interest, but not discussed in length, was the cellphone ban in schools, supporting M\u0101ori learners, the healthy school lunches programme, and how the\u00A0ministry interacts with the Tertiary Education Commission. Of course, with the Tertiary Education Commission as well, there was a significant amount of interest in regional responsiveness to industry, as well as the review of vocational education, which has been a significant part of not only the last year that we have reviewed but also years prior. So, as well as that, many things that the Tertiary Education Commission are working on\u2014as\u00A0I mentioned prior, fees-free, and then, of course, equitable learner outcomes was a considerable aspect of the work that was undertaken. Of course, financial stability and sustainability of the tertiary sector was significant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EI will just take the last 20 seconds to note that during this review process Fa\u2019an\u0101n\u0101 Efeso Collins was part of our committee and was part of these hearings. So I make note that he had great interest in this subject particularly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u002234bbcd8b6d604a53a46aca13fda5bb30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234bbcd8b6d604a53a46aca13fda5bb30\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. We\u2019ve just heard from the chair of our select committee, Katie Nimon, and I\u2019d like to say thank you to her for chairing those hearings so well. A lot of the work that was undertaken during this annual review stage was about the compulsory sector and the schooling sector, and we heard a lot, as the chair of our select committee has just said, around achievement. So I want to focus my first part on asking the Minister some questions around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EYou mentioned, Minister, in your hearing with us around the ministerial advisory group that you have around curriculum. And, of course, there\u2019s been a lot of work done in the last short while\u2014last couple of years\u2014around the curriculum refresh. I\u2019m really wanting to know, because the sector has been reporting about how they\u2019ve been well engaged with on that process, they\u2019re enjoying that process, they like the curriculum work and the direction that\u2019s going in. I\u2019m just really wanting to know when the public is likely to hear a report back from the ministerial advisory group on curriculum, and if they\u2019re making significant recommendations, which I\u2019m sure that they will be, having read some blog pieces by some of those members recently around changes, what work is the Minister thinking about to ensure that there is sector consultation that will happen, given that some of those peak bodies are complaining that they feel that they are not being consulted in recent times?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00221e7cecd8334541d881abdb439a20b7e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e7cecd8334541d881abdb439a20b7e2\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Well, I\u2019d like to point out\u2014well, firstly, can I say thank you to the Education and Workforce Committee; a committee I\u2019ve been on for many years and thoroughly enjoyed. And can I just say thank you to the chair, Katie Nimon, for doing an excellent job and to the members of that committee for what was a thoroughly enjoyable hearing that we had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThis debate is about the annual review, so, really, we\u2019re looking back at the previous financial year, so I will mostly limit my comments to that. This is not forward-looking. We can talk about that in the Estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EBut if we\u2019re going to talk about achievement in curriculum\u2014and the previous Minister mentioned curriculum and also achievement\u2014I think the key thing is to note that those two things are intrinsically linked. From my perspective, looking back, the fact that we have had a curriculum that has been very vague, high-level, and devoid of knowledge has been a real problem for New Zealand. I think our decline in our standards started from 2007 when we introduced that curriculum. So ensuring that we have a knowledge-rich curriculum that lays out year by year what must be taught in what order is really important to get consistency across the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWe have had this devolved curriculum, really down to individual schools to create, which is a huge impetus on our teachers when they have got a huge workload to then also have to write the curriculum. And to be fair to the previous Government and the previous Minister, I think that that was acknowledged as well. So the work that was started, unfortunately not completed or well-completed over that six-year period, but I think we\u2019re on the same track, which is we have to have a knowledge-rich curriculum that lays out year by year what the key core content is that must be taught so it doesn\u2019t matter where you go to school in this country and what your family circumstances are, you get access to the same knowledge, skills, and competencies. So I think we\u2019re on a similar page there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhat I would say is when I look back to the work that was done, there were some pockets of really good work, especially, I would say, in the maths curriculum\u2014we\u2019re not terribly far off. And I\u2019ve said publicly that we will keep a similar structure, that we will keep to similar time frames, but what we\u2019re looking at is a very incomplete curriculum. If we look at English, there have been no year-by-year progressions done; we look at other learning areas and the progressions aren\u2019t there year by year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re also concerned about is that the previous Government didn\u2019t ensure that it was internationally comparable as well. We are focused on making sure that those documents are internationally comparable, that they lay out year by year what the core content is that must be taught, no matter where you go to school, so that every child has access to the same learning. So that\u2019s where we will start from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe ministerial group hasn\u2019t reported back yet. It\u2019s outside the parameters of this debate, but I would say that the work that is under way is very much in train, it will be internationally comparable, it will be based on the science of learning, and it will be\u00A0knowledge-rich in its content, while keeping those competencies and skills alongside to make sure that our kids are geared up to live the life that they want where they get a world-leading education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00224d89cebab4c2400d87fc90f20f89b3e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d89cebab4c2400d87fc90f20f89b3e2\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll just point out that it is within the parameters of this debate because the Minister did bring it up herself within the annual review hearing that she had with the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI just really want to focus on the fact around why, when there were expert groups that\u00A0have been putting together the curriculum and working through that and making certain that the sector is on board, does the Minister feel that a new group was needed of\u00A0alternate experts and whether they had so-called better expertise than the experts that were already there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EAnd that being the case, one of the aspects that we did talk about too was the common\u00A0practice model in the annual review. Those experts in this new ministerial advisory group are looking at that common practice model. Will the Minister be releasing the one alongside that that was ready to be released in October so the public can see the\u00A0difference between the two and see the similarities as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00229ec98ff0cc6e4c879c4db0eae0ffa92f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ec98ff0cc6e4c879c4db0eae0ffa92f\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The role of the ministerial advisory group was to advise me on where we\u2019re at with the curriculum and the advice, you will see in the report that\u2019s not yet released, will quite clearly show that there will be some changes that need to be made. The groups that we now put together\u2014the expert writing groups which are different groups\u2014to write that material will be brought together from a range of expertise from around the country to make sure that the advice of the ministerial advisory group is followed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EAnd you won\u2019t be surprised to hear that we need to make sure it\u2019s based on the science of learning, that it\u2019s year by year, that all of the core content is there in a structured way, especially in things like mathematics and literacy, which are so important that we do things in the right order. And the member will well know, with structured literacy, for example, when you are learning to read and you\u2019re learning how the English language works, there is a certain order, and it\u2019s exactly the same in mathematics. So that work has been done.\u00A0As\u00A0I\u00A0said, the year-by-year literacy progressions were not done, so we have to do them. So\u00A0that\u2019s what we will be doing. And we\u2019re bringing in expert writers from around the country to make sure that that happens. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe second part of the question was around the common practice model. I\u2019ve made comments in the past about the previous iterations of the common practice model that I\u00A0saw. It was incoherent, it was based on competing ideologies, it was not based on what the latest research and evidence in science and cognitive research says, which is the science of learning and how the brain learns to acquire knowledge. Our curriculum will be based on that. It will include the concepts of the science of learning and it will include\u00A0a common practice model within it so there is one single document. But I\u2019m not\u00A0very interested in going back and looking at documents around the common practice model that, frankly, were substandard, that were incoherent, and that had competing ideologies. I\u2019m interested in the latest research and science and evidence, which shows\u00A0us clearly how the brain learns to read and write and do mathematics in a structured, explicit way, based on the science of learning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5111300ed4340fdbdd0aa84b1c9ec9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5111300ed4340fdbdd0aa84b1c9ec9b\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. My question is around early childhood education (ECE). The network approval was something that was introduced in February 2023 as part of the Early Learning Action Plan, and objective 5.1\u00A0states that early learning services are part of a planned and coherent education ecosystem that is supported, accountable, and sustainable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Associate Minister of Education is: out of curiosity, when the Minister said, as part of the annual review hearing, that network management is a burden, did he consult with ECE teachers on this? I\u2019m not referring to the managers and directors of for-profit ECE companies or the Early Childhood Advisory Committee. Also, has the Associate Minister taken sector leaders such as the New Zealand Educational Institute\u2019s K\u014Driporipo report last year into consideration?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c023543f7caf4e0ebd5bd5f428de525d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c023543f7caf4e0ebd5bd5f428de525d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education (Partnership Schools)):\u003C/span\u003E Well, yes, I want to first of all thank the member for the question. There\u2019s quite a lot there. For example, he seemed to make a point of some centres being for profit as being a problem, almost something pejorative. Well, let me tell the member: if he walks into any early childhood education (ECE) centre\u2014in fact, any school in this country\u2014he will find furniture, electronic devices, carpets, buildings. You know what? That\u2019s all made by people who are for profit. It\u2019s not really obvious why the member has a problem with profit in early childhood education, because if he went into any centres, he\u2019d be surrounded by the products of for-profit entities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe member asked a question about network management. Well, once again, this is why the member\u2019s side lost the Cold War. You see, there used to be a belief that if we had a Government that could tell people where to invest and what to invest in and what exactly was necessary in each part of the country, then we\u2019d all be better off. And what was discovered\u2014long and painfully, I might add\u2014was that Governments generally don\u2019t know exactly where to invest. They don\u2019t know the best places for people to do business. They don\u2019t understand community demand as well as the people who are involved in running the businesses. So we\u2019re getting rid of network management because it creates an additional burden on the people managing the centres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe member asks if we consulted the teachers. Well, no, not really, because they\u2019re not the ones that are making decisions about when to expand or when to open or when to close a centre, so it would be unusual to consult people that aren\u2019t really affected by a regulation on the regulation. What we have done is spoken to the people who manage and\u00A0represent the people who manage centres, because we know that actually it\u2019s them\u00A0who risk their money to make things happen, who have the best insight into where centres\u00A0should be built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a really important point that over the last 20 years we have seen enormous investment in the early childhood education network. I visit these centres and they are overwhelmingly well maintained, superb facilities that have been built by these for-profit operators at zero cost of investment capital to the Crown. I actually think that that is a wonderful thing, and rather than telling them where to build and putting them through rigmarole before they\u2019re allowed to build, we should actually just let them keep building these wonderful facilities for kids at no cost to the Crown. Doesn\u2019t that sound pretty good?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThen the member finally asked me if I have consulted with the NZEI\u2014the New Zealand Educational Institute\u2014or the union that represents some early childhood and primary sector leaders. Well, yes, I have met with them, and I think the member would have enjoyed being a fly on the wall in the meeting, to be honest. But probably the most useful thing I got from them was a survey of their members, of some of these teachers. What the survey told me is that one of the concerns\u2014if not the greatest\u2014of unionised teachers in the ECE sector was actually the red tape and regulation that the Government puts on them when they\u2019re trying to do their job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESo, to conclude, for the member, this Government believes that early childhood education is vital; that it can be better; that it\u2019s over-regulated\u2014that\u2019s a view that is shared by the teachers; and that people can make profit out of it. If that means they\u2019re building a network of education centres that are very well maintained and have no capital cost to the Crown, that\u2019s not such a bad thing. And if the member\u2019s opposed to profit, then next time\u00A0he goes to an early childhood education centre, he should ask himself where everything from the food to the carpet came from and figure out how, in his communist utopia, any of those things would be provided without profit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00221f6768d04152467e94484cea1cc195e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f6768d04152467e94484cea1cc195e3\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E So a follow-up question from that: considering that the before-profit early childhood education (ECE) companies take a huge amount of money from taxpayer funding, how would the Minister expect to ensure that the early learning action plan is still upheld from the perspective of accountability and sustainability, and ensure that there is transparency of the taxpayer funding being delivered to for-profit companies and that taxes are being paid properly and are not being funnelled into offshore areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00225f2874e85c464f1eb13f77de3cbc4e47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f2874e85c464f1eb13f77de3cbc4e47\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education (Partnership Schools)):\u003C/span\u003E Oh no, we\u2019ve gone from anti-business sentiment to outright xenophobia. There\u2019s now totally unfounded accusations that early childhood education centres are actually funnelling money that they should have paid tax on into foreign corporations. Now, I\u2019m just going to give the member an opportunity to say if he\u2019s got any evidence to substantiate that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e88880b364714f6c95ec0556df748544\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e88880b364714f6c95ec0556df748544\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d7702b174fb461694267a9cd92af47a\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s had a chance\u2014are you calling me, Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e33e4d6eea8048e986ddf6bfcf65a951\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e33e4d6eea8048e986ddf6bfcf65a951\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we\u2019ll have the Hon David Seymour, then we\u2019ll come to you, Carl. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002230a8c8f793c8498ab82e8938d51a7892\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002230a8c8f793c8498ab82e8938d51a7892\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education (Partnership Schools)):\u003C/span\u003E So he had an opportunity to stand up and say if he had any basis for accusing the early childhood education centre of funnelling money that they should have paid tax on into foreign corporations. There we have xenophobia and false accusations of tax evasion by the early childhood sector. That\u2019s what the Green Party offers the early childhood sector here in New Zealand. Well, to address the other questions, apart from the unfounded accusations of tax evasion and the xenophobia, there\u2019s actually no reason that any of those things are true, and when it comes to the quality, here\u2019s the question: who is best to judge the quality of an early childhood education centre? Someone called \u201Cparents\u201D\u2014parents who love their kids, parents who can see how their kids are being looked after, that they\u2019re safe, that they\u2019re being well looked after, and that they\u2019re learning valuable lessons at the centre. That is the primary way that people understand the quality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESecondly, there is also the Education Review Office, and there is also the Ministry of Education in their licensing capacity. It has to be said that all of these things are now being reviewed because, as we heard from the unions\u2014or at least their members\u2014overwhelmingly they are concerned by the excessive regulation put on the early childhood education sector. So we will have a much better set of measures over time that evaluate the outcomes that we\u2019re getting for around $2.7 billion worth of taxpayer money going into ECE, and if the member does know of any tax evasion by anyone in the sector, I would advise him to ring the 0800 hotline at the IRD. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022867b90dbd6b642a999c1735814c062c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022867b90dbd6b642a999c1735814c062c2\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. First of all, can I just acknowledge my colleagues on the Education and Workforce Committee and the huge amount of work done by them, led by our chair. Thank you for the introduction of this annual review to the committee. It was a great opportunity to highlight a huge amount of the positive work being done in the sector during the period, but also to spotlight the various challenges that were recognised during the annual review period of 2022 and 2023. As I noted in several of the hearings, as a parent of a five-year-old and a nearly two-year-old coming into the education sector, it gives some great confidence that these challenges have been spotlit and are being addressed by the current Government. My question, however, for the Minister of Education is: what student achievement did you note from the Better Start literacy report? Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u002292a7f31b28a44f71b98e51b20999de60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292a7f31b28a44f71b98e51b20999de60\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to the member Carl Bates for his question. I\u2019ve been talking a lot about structured literacy for a long time now. For those of you who are watching at home or up in the gallery\u2014you\u2019re not here to see me; you\u2019re here to see someone else; I know that\u2014structured literacy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f493599f8a45c6801b880bca6a033d\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Take the chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b9e2811a75849518313529b0871b172\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014look\u2014maybe. Structured literacy at its core is, as we all know, phonics, but it\u2019s so much more. It is the most useful way of teaching children to learn\u00A0to read. We know that about 90 percent of kids learn to read using structured literacy.\u00A0To be fair to the previous Government, I think they started to acknowledge that and did invest in structured literacy, and I want to give credit to them for doing that, because\u00A0the\u00A0Better Start Literacy Approach (BSLA) was brought in under the previous Government. Unfortunately, we got into this weird argument of \u201CMaybe we\u2019ll use that; maybe we\u2019ll use something else.\u201D\u00A0I\u00A0know that Jan Tinetti, the previous Minister, is clearly on the side of structured literacy\u00A0as\u00A0well\u2014we\u2019ve had those conversations; we know that that\u2019s how children learn to read. But what we see from the evidence that has been born out of the structured literacy approach under the Better Start Literacy Approach is that children gain so many levels of reading in such a short period of time. I was just looking at the Better Start Literacy Approach, it\u2019s seen an 87 to 96 percent success rate of students reaching the expected level for their year group.\u00A0I mean, it\u2019s phenomenal\u2014just in 10\u00A0weeks, you can raise children\u2019s reading levels up so many levels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EBut I want to give a case\u2014because I was talking just recently to the principal of Maramarua School. Now, they have a role of 122 children; 40 percent are M\u0101ori students. They implemented structured literacy in 2021, and, in 2021, about 60 percent of the kids at school were below or well below their expected reading level; after a couple of years of\u00A0structured literacy, 60 percent were at or above. But I want to talk about those M\u0101ori learners, because, from our Government\u2019s perspective, we have so much work to do in closing that equity gap. We know that our tamariki M\u0101ori, in terms of their reading, writing and mathematics, need so much more support. I want to give you the example of the M\u0101ori students at Maramarua School, because, in 2021, 37 percent of M\u0101ori learners were at or above the curriculum level for reading, but by the end of 2023, 68 percent were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI recall talking to Regan Orr, the principal of Central Normal School in Palmerston North, where he said that after a couple of years, for the first time in the school\u2019s history, their M\u0101ori learners were reading at the same level as all of the other children. It\u2019s those stories and that evidence, the BSLA data, that shows us that this is going to be the single greatest tool that we have to raise in literacy in this country. We know that early literacy and being proficient in reading and writing will unlock all of those other areas of the curriculum. It\u2019s so important we get 80 percent of our kids to curriculum by the time they finish intermediate so that they can go on to experience success at high school, go on to get an NCEA qualification, and go on to live the life they want. This is where it all starts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI have to acknowledge the previous Government\u2019s role in bringing in literacy and numeracy co-requisites at high school. It showed us that so many of our kids can\u2019t read, write, and do maths at a basic level. But, unfortunately, that just tells us that we\u2019ve got a problem. The solution lies in getting in really early. This is where we really missed a trick in the last six years: embedding structured literacy in every single classroom in this country from year one. That is the goal of this Government: to make sure that every single child learns to read using structured literacy. Because the alternative whole word or balanced approach teaches kids the habits of poor readers. Look at the picture, guess the word, read the whole sentence and think about the context\u2014those are the habits of poor readers. The habits of good readers are sounding out the word, looking at the letters, sounding them out, decoding the word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWe know that the greatest results will be for those kids who come from homes where\u00A0they have no resources to help, because wealthy homes will do after-school reading\u2014their parents, educated parents, will read to them after school because they don\u2019t\u00A0hold down three jobs each. Those kids who come from low socio-economic homes\u00A0are the ones who will benefit the most from this, because we know that 90\u00A0percent of our kids will learn to read using this, and we are deeply committed to embedding it in\u00A0every single school in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002284fb17b1004d4ba194d9184b116c9478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284fb17b1004d4ba194d9184b116c9478\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Chair. Thank you. Can I firstly thank the Minister for acknowledging the funding that has been given to those two schools in Palmerston North. I know those schools pretty well, and the fact that they were funded under the previous Government, I know, is a testament to the success of the focus in that space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMy question for the Minister is around cultural context, in the Pasifika context. I\u2019d put some written questions to the Minister around the level of support in her office for Pacific communities, but the information was withheld on the context of personal identification. So I\u2019d like to ask the Minister what support she does receive in terms of specific resource, in order to give some confidence to this House that she is able to understand the specific needs of Pacific \u0101konga, or learners, and what levels of engagement she has had with the\u00A0Pasifika communities around Aotearoa New Zealand that has perhaps provided an\u00A0opportunity to change some of the thinking that she\u2019s previously had as a result of\u00A0those specific levels of engagement with Pacific communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00226b00867ec4e24ac5a6d37617426104b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b00867ec4e24ac5a6d37617426104b9\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I\u2019m glad the member asked, because I recently met with the Pasifika Principals Association and we had a\u00A0fantastic afternoon. They are an incredibly engaged bunch of principals around the country, who do an amazing job. They had quite a lot of discussion with me and my\u00A0ministerial adviser, and they impressed upon me the importance of leadership in the Pacific education space. Look, it\u2019s their view that we have to have highly competent, well-trained, and ready-to-hit-the-ground-running Pasifika principals, because that cultural competency in our leaders and in our Pacific leaders is so important. We talked about their leadership programme that they run, which has been successful, and they\u2019re sending the data through to me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EBut what it said to me was that something that\u2019s missing in this country\u2014and it\u2019s something that I\u2019m focused on, and it\u2019s actually one of my six priorities\u2014is developing leadership pathways for our future principals. We do it very poorly. Over the last six years, we have found that principals are feeling like they are not supported and they\u2019re not ready. They\u2019re feeling like they\u2019re drowning, and we have a number who are leaving in the first five years because they\u2019re not well supported. The Pasifika principals said a similar thing, and they said that, actually, their programme that they\u2019re running for, in fact, all aspiring leaders and all principals around Pasifika cultural competence is so very important. So it was great to spend the day with them and to confirm the fact that we will be continuing the funding for their programme, which was really great to share with them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo I would say to the member that I am very engaged. I am always listening. I\u2019m interested in data and evidence to show the things that are working and improving competence amongst our principals and our teachers in this country. Like I say, it was a really good engagement. I look forward to working with them in the future, and I look forward to seeing the continued results from their leadership programmes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EBut, as I would say, one of the things I\u2019ve noticed is that there is no great pipeline\u00A0in\u00A0this country. We\u2019ve got our Pacific principals doing their job, we\u2019ve got the M\u0101ori\u00A0Principals Association doing their work, we\u2019ve got the Teaching Council doing a bit\u00A0of work in leadership, we\u2019ve got the unions doing a great job\u2014the Post Primary Teachers\u2019 Association are doing an excellent job\u2014in developing an aspiring principals\u2019 pipeline. The problem is that it\u2019s all over the place, and there is no overarching strategy or plan. So it is my intention to bring that all together and make sure that we are investing in our aspiring teachers who want to go on to leadership, that we are making sure that\u00A0they\u00A0have the skills, the knowledge, and the experience that they need to take on that role, and also, once they\u2019re in that role, that those in-service principals get the support that they need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca0c04e19b054f939f5a0ecc07b73885\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca0c04e19b054f939f5a0ecc07b73885\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to sort of take a little bit of a change now to go to learning support, and I\u2019m quite interested to know what the progress has been of the Highest Needs Review to date, particularly over the 2023 year, and what changes have been seen for learning support delivery from the beginning of 2024 as a result. And I\u2019m going to ask another question because I might not get the opportunity to again, so I want to know: who has the oversight of those changes, is that something that the Minister is going to keep pursuing, and who is the team that will have that oversight of those changes now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00221e5c71d00a004ad7a3436b6c57d10f2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e5c71d00a004ad7a3436b6c57d10f2e\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I\u2019m glad the member brought up learning support, because if you look back in the time period that we\u2019re debating, the results are not great. The wait times have increased, the numbers have increased, and, as we all know, the worst thing for a child is to be on a wait-list. It\u2019s all about right child, right service, right time, and we have not been meeting those goals. I think the member will agree that the learning support system is broken. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EOne of my key priorities that I announced yesterday was to make sure that children do receive the right support at the right time. One of the things, though, that I noticed coming into this role was that we spend an awful amount of money on learning sport; well\u2014well\u2014over a billion dollars and potentially a lot more once we start collecting up all the things we spend money on. But the thing for me was that while there are strategies, there are plans, there have been reports that have been done\u2014in the last six years, not a lot of action. Things have not got better; things have got worse. And, frankly, I\u2019m not interested in writing another glossy strategy. I\u2019m not interested in doing another review. We already know what the issues are; the sector will tell you quite clearly. The ministry know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EBut there\u2019s some fundamental problems. The first thing is data and evidence. One of the things that struck me when I came into this job, when I asked\u2014about all of the things that we spend money on in learning support\u2014what are the outcomes, for many of them we don\u2019t know what the answer is. How many children do we reach? What is the lift in their circumstances? What are the programmes that are doing really well? So it will be my focus, with the backing of the ministry, to make sure that we are evaluating and monitoring all of the things that we do so that we can shift money into things that are working and stop doing things that are not working. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESo data and evidence is going to be absolutely crucial. I\u2019ve already said to the ministry that I want evaluation frameworks for the things that we\u2019re doing so we can see what is\u00A0successful. It is also my intention to make sure that we are shifting back-end resource to\u00A0meet front-end need. You would have already seen that, I think, in the fact that we\u2019re prioritising period products\u2014meeting front-end need, shifting some of that back-end resource. We will be doing the same in learning support. But in the last period that we\u2019re looking at, things did not get a lot better, and it is my intention that we will take a look\u00A0at\u00A0the resource, we will take a look at the programmes, and the member is going to have to keenly await the Budget to have any further information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002217ceef9f2a3e406dbe34aeb31139429f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217ceef9f2a3e406dbe34aeb31139429f\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. First of all, I would like to reject the Associate Minister\u2019s claim before. I was asking a valid question\u2014\u201Ccan he ensure\u201D\u2014and I get called xenophobic. But that\u2019s OK; I forgive that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy question is on neurodivergent and disabled students, and this is to the Minister. The ministry said in the report that it\u2019s challenging to direct an inclusive education system that meets all learners\u2019 needs, particularly as demand for extra support grows for neurodivergent and disabled students. Along the same vein, the Minister herself has also spoken on the inequality for students in Aotearoa. So my question is two questions. How has the data which you mentioned before that we have on neurodivergent and disabled students been improved upon to address a way that ensures these students have what they need? Also, how would the Minister and the ministry plan to achieve our Learning Support Action Plan 2019-2025 when expert roles directly supporting neurodivergent and disabled students and teachers and schools will be lost in the Ministry of Education cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f08c09cdfbcb4d5ea4a61a2704131939\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f08c09cdfbcb4d5ea4a61a2704131939\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I\u2019ll address the last part of the question first around the shift in resources from the back end to meet front-end need. As I said in my last contribution, it is my intention to make sure that we see more resource at the front end where it is needed the most for our teachers, our schools, and our kids. That has been the entire thinking behind the process that we\u2019ve been under and it is very far from the truth. And I believe that as Secretary for Education, she has been\u2014it is purely operational, but it has been my expectation that those front-line services delivering learning support in our schools to our teachers, to our kids will not be affected. In fact, many of the roles on the front line or a role in the front line will have many more staff added to in the form of curriculum support people directly interacting with teachers on the front line. So, in all of this, my intention is to make sure more kids are getting more resources and that we\u2019re shifting to make sure that they get those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EAs I said in my previous contribution as well, there were a lot of strategies written by the last Government; not a lot of action. Actually, you can see the results. Learning support\u2014much worse. Academic achievement\u2014much worse. Kids going to school\u2014much worse. A lot of glossy documents; not a lot of doing. We are interested in delivery, and you will see from us a clear quarterly action plan of delivery. I\u2019m meeting constantly with different groups to get their input to make sure that we\u2019re on the right track. You will see from our learning support action plan\u2014I won\u2019t call it our action plan; it\u2019s the same as the last Government\u2019s. But our action plan will include deliverables, starting with the fact that schools, for example, have to fill out a million forms through a million different channels to try and access support. We want to streamline things. We want to make it easier for schools to access support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EInitial teacher education: in relation to your other question, it\u2019s so important that, actually, when you learn to be a teacher, you learn about neurodiversity, you learn about dyslexia, you learn about trauma-informed teaching. It\u2019s really important that we ensure that in initial teacher education our teachers, when they enter the workforce, have that knowledge. I spoke recently to an educational psychologist\u2014an ed psych as they call them\u2014and she said to me, \u201CLook, our job would be almost redundant if the stuff that we were training teachers to do they were already taught to do at initial teacher education.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EWe really want to make sure, for our neurodiverse kids and our kids who have experienced trauma, that when a pre-teacher is going through initial teacher education they are armed with that skill and that knowledge before they start teaching. So you will\u00A0see quite a bit of work from us in our work in that area to make sure that we are\u00A0better\u00A0supporting our teaching workforce to make sure that the outcomes for those children are much better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u00225d9fd2fcb0e44a889d229e3ab717ca3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d9fd2fcb0e44a889d229e3ab717ca3d\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for this opportunity. I would also like to join my colleagues in thanking all the members of the Education and Workforce Committee, and the chair, and, of course, all the Ministers as well. My question is to the Associate Minister of Education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EDuring the annual reviews, we discussed expanding educational options, and the Minister talked about bringing back charter schools. I\u2019m quite keen to understand from the Minister how that work programme to bring in charter schools is looking, what progress has been made so far, and what makes the Minister so confident about charter schools\u2014that charter schools will be able to help students that are at risk. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8405cc648c74f219066b6bbe7f15742\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8405cc648c74f219066b6bbe7f15742\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education (Partnership Schools)):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member Dr Parmjeet Parmar for the question. We certainly did discuss the reintroduction of charter schools at the select committee hearing. I\u2019m very happy to expand on how that work is going and why the Government believes that charter schools are such an important policy to get disadvantaged kids in New Zealand more engaged in education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I can tell the member that, along with Minister Stanford and Cabinet colleagues, we\u2019ve been working very quickly to get the basic ideas around policy decisions around charter schools made. And we\u2019re doing that in order that we can pass legislation and have the first charter schools open in term 1, 2025. That is our goal. It will happen fast, and it will happen bigger than it has happened previously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ESecond of all, I can tell the member that we will be having two types. There will be those that people are more familiar with from the last time New Zealand had charter schools\u2014those that are new schools started up specifically, often with an insight into how to engage children in that community in education that is not available from within the sinecure of the\u00A0Ministry of Education. We have to go out to the community to find the knowledge to engage the community. But there will also be charter schools which used to be State schools that\u00A0have converted to charter school status for the reason that they want also to be free to use their autonomy to expand in response to demand, to shrink when demand for their education shrinks, but, most importantly, to determine how they run their school inside their\u00A0walls. And, critically, they\u2019re contracted and accountable for school achievement and\u00A0school attendance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EIn many respects, you could say in recent years we have got the balance wrong with New Zealand education policy: enormous amounts of micro-management of what shape classroom they have and how they operate under the Common Practice Model, but almost no accountability for whether students actually attend and actually achieve. The charter school policy flips that script and also, I hope, will solve several key problems with the Tomorrow\u2019s Schools model: that we\u2019re not very good at making sure schools fail when they fail their students, and we\u2019re not very good at making sure that schools scale when they clearly have something positive to offer. Failing and scaling: our model is not very good at it. But charter schools will ensure that if a school is not reaching its targets for kids showing up and getting valuable knowledge transmitted from one generation to the next, then we\u2019re going to find someone else to do a better job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205df03beb63d403089f1dbcfdbfff917\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies to the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff366198ee2a4aecb83d535670d34931\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Not a problem, Mr Chair. I was very grateful for the\u00A0opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002277a8aa19262f45169b741815678d6e32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277a8aa19262f45169b741815678d6e32\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the committee is now suspended for the valedictory statement of the Hon James Shaw, in accordance with a determination of the Business Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00225f8059d0fc384a57828deb909844b431\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f8059d0fc384a57828deb909844b431\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, following the valedictory statement, the House will suspend for the dinner break and resume at 7.30 p.m. I assume that we won\u2019t be hearing the valedictory for all that time, but may I now call on the Hon James Shaw to make his valedictory statement. [Applause from public gallery]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022563f066196264103a2f214b060a7475a\u0022\u003EValedictory Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca91caa5cf444e5b8db0ec85035571ba\u0022\u003EValedictory Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022 data-id=\u00220854fe1454f4407ca3cf3f8c11a28ce8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220854fe1454f4407ca3cf3f8c11a28ce8\u0022\u003EHon JAMES SHAW (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you\u2014you haven\u2019t heard what I\u2019ve got to say yet! Thank you, Mr Speaker. E mihi ana ki ng\u0101 mana whenua ki t\u0113nei rohe, a Taranaki Wh\u0101nui ki Te \u016Apoko o te Ika, Te \u0100tiawa Wh\u0101nui, T\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E[I acknowledge the terrestrial authority of this region, Taranaki Wh\u0101nui in the Wellington area, wider Te \u0100tiawa, greetings to all of you. Mr Speaker, greetings. Many thanks to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOne night, during the course of the 2017 election campaign, I was so exhausted that I\u00A0swallowed my tongue in my sleep, and I woke up\u2014[Members laugh] It didn\u2019t feel funny at the time! I woke up on the floor on my hands and knees, choking it back up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThat was a difficult campaign. When Parliament rose for the six-week election period, I delivered the adjournment debate speech for the Green Party, and 10 minutes before I was due to speak, I got the news that the Colmar Brunton poll that night had us down 11 points. We were on 4 percent. It seemed likely at that point that I was about to become the last leader of the Green Party and to deliver the last speech by a Green Party MP in Parliament. Well, 12 weeks later, I was the Minister of Climate Change. I was on my way to Germany for the United Nations annual climate summit, but first I had to stop over in Rome to meet the Pope. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, there isn\u2019t a roller coaster on this planet that comes close to the white-knuckle ride that is politics, and I am simultaneously saddened and elated to be leaving it.\u00A0Actually, I am mostly elated to be leaving it. I\u2019ve been in Parliament for 10 years, Green Party co-leader for nine, six as a Minister of the Crown, and I have to say it has not been easy to work out what it is that I want to say, here at the end of it all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere are a great many people to whom I owe a profound debt of gratitude. Sometimes, in these speeches, the acknowledgments come at the end, but I\u2019m going to start with them, because if there is one thing that I want to express, it is gratitude. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIn the middle of the 2011 election campaign, I was set up on a blind date by the Green Party\u2019s campaign director, Megan Salole, and like any good political operator, Megan understood the power of informational asymmetry. She briefed me on her friend Annabel with a slide deck full of photos and bits of information, whilst telling Annabel almost nothing about me at all, presumably because if she had, Annabel wouldn\u2019t have shown up. So my date was surprised to learn that her date was running for Parliament in that year\u2019s general election. But she saw past that small flaw\u2014and many others\u2014and 18\u00A0months later, we were married. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, Annabel chose this life. She chose a life with a husband who\u2019s either choking to death from exhaustion, or off overseas meeting the Pope. She chose to sacrifice the next 10 years to it, and she would have chosen another three had we won another term in Government. After that, she would have filed for divorce. This has never just been my journey; it\u2019s always been ours. Everything I have here, I owe to you. You have not sought nor received nearly the recognition that you deserve for your part in enabling me to play mine, so thank you. I love you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI wasn\u2019t elected in 2011, so, unfortunately, I couldn\u2019t cast my vote for the marriage equality bill in 2013. My parents, Susanne and Cynthia, have been together since the 1980s, and it meant a great deal to me to see their love recognised as equal to anybody else\u2019s. Thank you for being here, tonight and always. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EBoth my family and Annabel\u2019s have always been hugely supportive of us over the years,\u00A0and I particularly want to thank two of my brothers-in-law, Rob Kirkness and James Every-Palmer. Rob has been at the centre of some leading-edge climate litigation\u2014most notably, Smith v Fonterra and Smith v Attorney-General. James helped me negotiate two governmental agreements with the Labour Party. He then advised me on the zero carbon Act, and he then sued me\u2014twice\u2014in his role as the co-founder of Lawyers for Climate Action. So I do look forward to less awkward family dinners. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere are two other people in the public gallery today whom I would like to acknowledge. One morning in 2018, I was on my way to work when I was stopped by a particularly vexed gentleman, who wanted me to stop what I was doing with the United Nations, although he was not specific about what that was. To emphasise his point, he fractured my eye socket.\u00A0Now, Rachel and Geoff Ridley, who were also on their way to work, came to my rescue.\u00A0Geoff pulled me out of harm\u2019s way, whilst Rachel placed all five feet or so of \u00A0herself\u00A0between me and the assailant and saw him off. So, Rachel and Geoff, thank you.\u00A0That\u00A0was\u00A0very kind and very brave. Now, at the time, Rachel worked for Kirkcaldie and Stains. She now works here at Parliament, so be nice to her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOf course, I would not even be here if it wasn\u2019t for the efforts of many thousands of Green Party members and supporters and volunteers and Green Party staffers. In the time that I have been a member of Parliament, the Green Party has been ably led by its co-convenors Roland Sapsford, Georgina Morrison, Pete Huggins, John Ranta, Debs Martin, Katy Watabe, Wiremu Winitana, Penny Leach, Aroha Low, R\u014Dpata Moore, Lawrence Xu-Nan, and Alyssce Te Huna; general secretaries Jon Field and the formidable Gwen Shaw\u2014no relation, by the way\u2014and the Green Party head office, led by Michael Pringle, Sarah Helm, Sonja Deely, and Miriam Ross; and campaign directors Matt Thomas and Chennoah Walford. All of us here are in awe of the efforts that you go to, to give people like us the privilege of this job, so thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ETo the Wellington Central Greens, thank you for all of your support over the 12 years that I had the honour of being your candidate. Your new MP is, quite simply, extraordinary, so look after her. My Green Party colleagues, particularly my co-leaders: Metiria, your warmth and your courage and your tenacity have been an inspiration to others and to me.\u00A0Thank you for putting your faith in me in those early days; it meant everything to\u00A0me.\u00A0You deserved better than you got.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EMarama, we are the only people who know what it\u2019s like to be us. Thank you for your partnership, for your leadership, and for everything that you have taught me over the course of the past six years. Chl\u00F6e, I am so proud of you and I am so excited to see where you and Marama lead the Greens into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, there have been well over a hundred Green Party parliamentary staffers over the years, and so, as much as I want to extend the honour\u2014and you did seem to offer me a little bit more time, Mr Speaker\u2014I cannot thank you all by name. But I do want to thank you through the remarkable people who served as my chiefs of staff: Ken Spagnolo, Andrew Campbell, the Hon Deborah Morris-Travers, Tory Whanau (you were always \u201CYour Worship\u201D to us, Your Worship), and Robin Campbell. And the directors who supported them: again, Andrew Campbell, Maggie Tait, Alex Smith, Moira Neho, Joss Debreceny, David Cormack, Holly Donald, Pete Huggins, Robin Campbell, Nadine Walker, Matt Thomas, Eliza Prestige-Oldfield, Danny Stevens, and Chargn Keenan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI was so proud when Andrew Campbell and Holly Donald graduated from our offices to become the Prime Minister\u2019s chief press secretary and deputy chief of staff, respectively. I\u00A0even forgave Andrew Little for referring to that as \u201Cmining the Greens\u201D. And through you, I extend my deepest gratitude to all of those smart, passionate, and tireless people who served on the Green Party\u2019s staff during my watch. To my executive assistants: Gabie George, Dave Butler-Peck, Sedef Duder-Ozyurt, Semi Kuresa, Bonnie Hayvice, Eve Jones, and Annie Dancer; my senior private secretaries: Victoria Love, Alvina Robati, Bibiana Marsh, Elena Scheule, Alex Eichelbaum, Nina Sudiono-Price, Lani Nesbitt, and Shelly Rangihuna; my senior ministerial advisors: Robin Campbell, Deb Moran, Mark Baker-Jones, Lachlan Rule, Carrie Gage and Hamish Clark; my press secretaries: Peter Stevens, Nadine Walker, Danny Stevens\u2014some of these people got around\u2014Aaron Packard, Tom Crick, Adelia Hallett, and Jo Leavesley\u2014you are some of the most remarkable people that I have ever known or had the privilege of working with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAnd we were supported by a dizzyingly talented array of people. The private secretaries from the Ministry for the Environment: Alex White, Ankit Kishore, Billy Rine, Cassidy House, David Mead, Georgina Beasley, Jessie Algar, Kate Ryan, Kay\u2014now Ambassador\u2014Harrison, Laurette Siemonek, Lindy Fursman, Maggie Fellowes, Nicolasa Fuller, Rachel Ward, Rio Yoon, Sarah Deblock, and Sophie Lord. From the Ministry for Foreign Affairs and Trade: Jonathan Rowe, Kate Wilson-Butler, Peter Shackleton, and Stuart Dymond. From the Treasury: Ben Temple, Laura Berntsen, Mark Sowden\u2014now Chief Statistician, Scott Russell, and Shahlaa Al-Tiay. And from Statistics New Zealand: Grace McLean, Josh Martyn, Natalia Albert, Scott Kaiser, and Tom Crick. And the many others who provided cover and filled in and helped out when we needed it the most. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ETogether, that group of people created what I believe was one of the most productive, hardest-working, and inspiring places to work on campus, and we had that reputation right across the Government. Behind them, of course, there were dozens of others: at the Climate Change Commission, Green Investment Finance Ltd, the Environmental Protection Authority, Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority, the Ministry for the Environment, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Treasury, and Statistics New Zealand; as well as the 20 or so other ministries, departments, and agencies who supported our work\u2014even when they opposed it [coughs, \u201CMPI\u201D].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI have many more friends than enemies now, and I think the ratio is about 3:1. There are three friends, in particular, that I want to acknowledge. So I\u2019m a liberal leftie from the Aro\u00A0Valley, fairly famously, so if you asked me at the start of my career who I thought that I\u00A0would become close friends with, my first pick would not be a Catholic conservative from Tauranga. But, in the face of\u2014I have to say\u2014strong political headwinds, Todd Muller earned my trust and my respect with his integrity, his commitment, and his candour. New Zealand would not have an enduring zero carbon Act or a Climate Change Commission without him. And I have to say, there are moments when this place has a way of showing you who your true friends are. It turns out, he\u2019s one of mine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThrough four election campaigns, I enjoyed the great pleasure of standing alongside Grant Robertson in Wellington Central. There was one year when we did 36 public meetings, sometimes two a night, and we finished\u2014I can see some nodding heads over there who are familiar with Wellington Central\u2014with the Mt Victoria Residents Association. By that point, Grant and I had repeated our stump speeches so often that we considered swapping them to see if anybody noticed. And then, a local resident\u2014the\u00A0Rt\u00A0Hon Dr Sir Geoffrey Palmer QC\u2014presumably agonising about who to vote for, showed up to cross-examine us on the Resource Management Act. So Grant and I thought the better of things and decided to behave ourselves. It was an honour and a pleasure to work with Grant in Government, including a term as his Associate Finance Minister. I\u00A0have to say, there have been a lot of awful things said about Grant recently, but in my experience he is one of the most decent, principled, and thoughtful people I have ever met and the most talented politician of my generation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI remember meeting a promising youth-adjacent Labour candidate in 2008, when we were both living in London and campaigning for the expat vote for our respective parties. At the time, she was president of the International Union of Socialist Youth, and I said that I didn\u2019t realise socialists were allowed into the Labour Party\u2014which\u00A0I\u00A0might not have said if I\u2019d known that, nine years later, I was asking her to make me her climate change Minister. But I am profoundly grateful that she did, because serving Jacinda Ardern\u2019s Government was the privilege of my lifetime. She is a woman of humility, service, intelligence, and integrity, and she also deserves better than she has been receiving. Grant and Jacinda were the best of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EAnd what can I say about being in a Government during a time that included the country\u2019s worst terrorist attack, a deadly volcanic eruption, a global pandemic, and then capped it off with fatal floods and cyclones and the displacement of thousands of New Zealanders from their homes? Helen Clark\u2019s Government had SARS, September the 11th, and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan; John Key\u2019s had the great financial crisis and the Christchurch earthquakes. But it kind of felt like we were getting served up a little bit more than our fair share of catastrophe cake. One of the reasons, I believe, that successive Governments had never really dealt with climate change is they\u2019re so busy dealing with the fiasco du jour, and then they kick the long-term, really big challenges down the road. The fact that we dealt with those things and also put in place an intergenerational framework for dealing with climate change, I credit with the leadership and sponsorship of Jacinda Ardern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere are some other less famous foundation stones of the framework included, such as the establishment of New Zealand Green Investment Finance Ltd and a little-heralded\u00A0shareholder protection measure, the snappily entitled climate-related financial disclosures\u2014or, as we like to call it in the Public Service, CRFD. Now, New Zealand was the first country in the world to introduce that measure, and for that, the Hon\u00A0Kris\u00A0Faafoi and Hon David Clark can take a bow. The United Kingdom was the second. There are now three dozen countries. Australia is introducing it right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, the pace of change did overwhelm us. The most urgent of these crises is the biodiversity crisis. New Zealand has the highest species extinction rate in the world. I\u2019m going to say that again: the highest species extinction rate in the world. Sixty-three percent of our ecosystems are threatened. Those ecosystems are the home of our native species, of which 4,000 are either at risk or threatened with extinction. That includes 90 percent of our seabirds, 82 percent of our native birds, 94 percent of our reptiles, and 72 percent of our\u00A0native freshwater fish. There are some in the new Government who seem to want to put these endangered species on the fast track to oblivion. So those numbers may well go up. It is a crisis that is every bit as severe as the climate crisis. I would have liked to have had more success in protecting and restoring our wildernesses and wildlife.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOne of the times when I really burnt a chunk of my political capital was to secure the $1.3 billion for Jobs for Nature in Budget 2020. It was a COVID response measure, so it was always going to be time limited. But in that time, it has empowered 10,000 of our most precarious citizens in some of our most fragile, remotest regions in the country, and they have done the most incredible work restoring our rivers, our estuaries, our forests, and our bush. And, Nicola, I know how to keep it alive. [Gestures for the Minister of Finance to call him]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EOne of the hardest battles I fought was to complete the Hon Dr Nick Smith\u2019s dream of national direction for councils on how to work with farmers and iwi to protect indigenous biodiversity under the Resource Management Act. The quid pro quo for landowners would be biodiversity credits and incentives. I know that the current Minister is more interested in the quid than the quo, but, Christopher, if you let them unwind the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity, I will haunt you!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWhen I ran for co-leader in 2015, I said that I wanted to lead the Greens into Government and then safely out the other side. We had never been in Government with Ministers before. The dreaded minor party curse saw every coalition partner punished by the voters. So, at the time, it did seem like a bold promise. But in 2017, we entered Government, with Ministers for the first time. Our vote went up at the 2020 election, and we became the first support party to increase our support after a term in Government. And then, in 2023, we did it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe Greens now have more members of Parliament than we have ever had before, including three electorate seats, which we have never had before. We have more M\u0101ori in our current caucus than the total number of M\u0101ori MPs we have had in our history leading up to this point. We brought into Parliament the first member of Parliament who had arrived in this country as a refugee, we added to our caucus our first Pasifika MP in 2020, and then a second in 2023. Of course, we still desperately mourn the loss of Fa\u02BBan\u0101n\u0101 Efeso Collins. I do want to thank the House for the heartfelt tributes yesterday. We brought in our first Vietnamese MP; our first Chinese MP; and, next week, our first Filipino MP. We now look more like contemporary New Zealand than we ever have before. Whether those things happened because of me, or in spite of me, they did happen on my watch. And in my entirely objective and unbiased assessment, the Greens are now in better shape than we have ever been before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EPeople keep asking me what I\u2019m going to do next. I am in a real hurry to protect and restore our wildernesses and our wildlife and our atmosphere and our oceans. I am a Star Trek fan, so I am giving myself a five-year mission to boldly reduce or remove 150\u00A0million tonnes of climate pollution from global emissions by 2030. If that number sounds familiar to some of you\u2014and it should\u2014it\u2019s because it is also New Zealand\u2019s nationally determined contribution under the Paris Agreement. Now, getting Cabinet to commit to that target almost led to my resignation, so I feel I have some responsibility for it. Whether the Government will be able to claim any of that towards its Paris target will really come down to whether it gets the policy settings right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThe single biggest lever for change is in the world of politics\u2014that\u2019s why I chose to run for Parliament. The second greatest lever for change, in my view, is in the world of finance. My maiden speech included a prescient warning about the dangers of climate change from Margaret Thatcher, and now some of my Green friends became very excited to hear a Green MP quote the Iron Lady, so I\u2019m going to round out my speeches out with a quote from Henry Ford. He said, \u201CThe highest use of capital is not to make more money, but to make money do more for the betterment of life.\u201D Now, I know what you\u2019re thinking: if Henry Ford had just used batteries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ENow, I believe, having said that, there is a huge opportunity to leverage the power of finance to massively increase the scale and the speed of the transition to a net zero economy. So, Simon, I will race you. The last one to 150 million tonnes buys the drinks. Now, speaking of drinks, you are all invited to the post-match reception over the road at the National Library once we\u2019re done here, and I\u2019d better get on with it because I\u2019m now standing between you and a glass of wine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EParliament should be where the future of the country is created, but ideals and vision, in my view, have themselves become endangered species. In their absence, Parliament is becoming the place where our future is consumed rather than created, and I think there has been a shift in the nature of politics and political campaigns. We have a lot more data about voters. The public would be very nervous if they knew exactly how much we knew about them. We have market research, qualitative analysis. We don\u2019t need to present a vision for the future anymore, because we can just give swing voters the things that they want today, financed by borrowing them from tomorrow. I have used many of these campaign tools\u2014or at least the budget knock-down version of them\u2014because politics is a contest and if your opponents are using those tools, then it means that you also have to. But there has to be more to politics than data and marketing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESo, during my time here, I have tried to cultivate an approach that\u2019s both viable in a modern political campaign and the modern media environment but also, in spite of those things, creates enduring solutions to the great challenges of our time. Because one of the things that attracted me to the Green Party in the first place, 30 years ago, was that they wanted to do politics differently, and I said in my maiden speech, 25 years after that point, that \u201CPolitical tribalism is, I believe, the single greatest barrier to creating enduring solutions to the great challenges of our time. \u2026 I know that the first step [to] finding [those] answers is to work together. Presently we are stuck. To get unstuck, we will all need to let go of some things and to be more committed to finding the answers than to being right or to others being wrong.\u201D Well, that wasn\u2019t a bad speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to think that, for the most part, I lived up to that commitment. What I have learnt during my time here is that most issues default to a tug of war over policy differences. It is entirely possible for hard-working, well-meaning people to strive for\u00A0change for their entire career but to accomplish very little because there\u2019s always someone pulling in the opposite direction just as hard. So my message to this House is\u00A0that if you take positions that are lateral to that tug of war and to those entrenched debates, and you build alliances across them, then you can actually radically shift the\u00A0political centre in your own direction because there\u2019s no one resisting you. And where I did, it worked: the zero carbon Act, the Climate Change Commission, the emissions targets and our five-year emissions budgets, our 2030 target under the\u00A0Paris\u00A0Agreement, and our 2050 net zero targets all seem to have largely survived the change of Government when very little else has.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EI want to thank the Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Christopher Luxon, for his personal leadership on this. Christopher used to be the CEO of an airline. He was instrumental in establishing the Climate Leaders Coalition. We became friends during that time and I thank him for his support. I clearly have a fatal attraction for bald Tories. [Laughter] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ELast week\u2014I\u2019ll just let you recover from that for a moment\u2014we got the news that New Zealand\u2019s emissions fell for the third year in a row. Whilst methane is still off track\u2014something to do with not being priced, I understand\u2014we also got the news that we were on track to meet our target of net zero long-lived gases before 2050, in fact; before 2050. At least, we were on track as of last July. Andrew Morrison, who is the former president of Beef \u002B Lamb, is in the gallery today. Andrew got rolled from his job in the same year that I was also briefly rolled from mine, and for much the same reason: the partisans in our tribes thought that each of us had sold out to the other. Pressure is building and the consensus is fraying and some of those partisans sit in this House and some of them are now Government Ministers. The framework is being quietly sabotaged and subtly undermined, and there is an increasing risk that New Zealand will collapse into the climate culture wars that we see in the United States or Britain or Canada or Australia and elsewhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EJournalists who have been watching us have been asking me what will become of my\u00A0legacy. That word makes me very nervous because the politics and the policy of\u00A0climate change isn\u2019t about me. It\u2019s not even about anybody in this House, in this room;\u00A0it\u2019s about people who won\u2019t be born for decades and who in their entire lives will never once know any of our names.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a proverb that civilisations become great when old men plant trees under whose shade they know that they will never sit. In the Waipoua forest stands the great kauri Te Matua Ngahere\u2014the father of the forest. That tree is somewhere between 1,200 and 2,000\u00A0years old. By the time Kupe chased the great octopus of Muturangi across the ocean and discovered these shores, Te Matua Ngahere would have been almost as tall as it is today. At its youngest, it predates Angkor Wat. By the older estimate, Te Matua Ngahere may have been a sapling when Cicero was writing about old men planting trees. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EIf I have learnt one lesson, it is that we will always need political leaders who can rise above the politics that brought them here. A legacy is not a career or a brand or even a set of laws. The only true legacy that we can leave is to cherish the world that we have inherited and to bequeath a better one for our descendants. Civilisations become great when old men plant trees. This is the only way that any of us will ever create anything that lasts beyond our time in this House or on this earth. Everyone we care about, everything we argue about happens here on what Carl Sagan calls \u201Cthis pale blue dot, the only home we\u2019ve ever known.\u201D So look after it. Mr Speaker, it has been my privilege. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003E[Applause, hongi, and harir\u016B]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003EWaiata\u2014\u201CAmazing Grace\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227c215736-b512-41de-8f0c-6c5543fcfce7\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.06 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002297fae6a734794394a711539b16972f0b\u0022\u003EAnnual Review Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220431035599544fd3ba1efddd7ef03f83\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000542\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f681121b7f3844a4bf3d7c0fee11383e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f681121b7f3844a4bf3d7c0fee11383e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the Minister of Transport is now available for one hour to respond to members\u2019 questions. I first call Andy Foster, the chair of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff349540b90b4532a0b146c29806ae1d\u0022\u003ETransport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u00227c9793e746bf4a4a9d70610913c79cae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c9793e746bf4a4a9d70610913c79cae\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (Chairperson of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Madam Chair. Look, I\u2019m delighted to report back from the Transport and Infrastructure Committee on what I think was great work that we did in the annual review process. I just want to say thank you to all the team, also the substitutes, the officials, and also the agencies who came in to speak to us. I think we learnt a lot and I think we\u2019ve identified some real opportunities to make the boat of \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D go faster, and if we take some of those opportunities, we will make a material difference to our collective wellbeing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo we had in the Infrastructure Commission, Crown Infrastructure Partners, the three mixed-ownership model power companies, Transpower, and the Electricity Authority, and we also had KiwiRail, which engendered quite a lot of interest\u2014that\u2019s one of the\u00A0organisations we chose to do an in-depth inquiry on. And we also had the in-depth inquiry on the New Zealand Transport Authority (NZTA), which was required of us. We also had the Ministry of Transport in. I think we asked a lot of good questions. I\u00A0understand it\u2019s usual procedure for the Opposition to ask more questions than the Government, but, in fact, everybody contributed significantly to asking good questions, and I think we got a lot out of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EIn the time available, I can only highlight a few things. First of all, the Infrastructure Commission is where we started off. I\u2019ve got to say, for me, they are a breath of fresh air. We\u2019ve all heard about our national infrastructure deficit, but their message, which is the crucial one, is that we actually invest as much as the international benchmark. We\u2019re investing enough; what they\u2019re saying is we are not getting value out of it. They\u2019re saying we\u2019re investing about 5 to 6 percent of GDP in infrastructure, but if we were to get what we need to get out of it, with the way we do it currently, we\u2019d need to invest about 10\u00A0percent, so about 4 percent of GDP, essentially, being wasted in our processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWhat were their key messages? Well, they said that the quantum investment is sufficient, but the quality of that investment is poor and New Zealand ranks in the bottom 10 percent of high-income countries in terms of the amount of infrastructure we deliver per unit of capital invested. That is a really serious message, but it\u2019s also a really serious and really exciting opportunity that we have to make some changes. So that\u2019s about not investing in dumb things. They said that our use of business cases is sporadic, and so-called business cases are usually just dressing up support for a project we\u2019ve already decided on, even if it\u2019s not the best project that we could do. The commission encourage us to use best-practice business case approach, saying we have a \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D problem here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThey also told us that our asset management is often very poor and that we under-invest, particularly in maintenance\u2014and that is right across the board in all assets. They said that, roughly speaking, we should be investing about 60 percent in maintenance, 40\u00A0percent in new, but we are investing probably about 30 percent in maintenance. So we\u2019re way under\u2014and that is across the board. In many cases, we\u2019ve under-invested for decades. For example, the rail network came up\u2014we know that we\u2019ve under-invested for decades. So there\u2019s a huge programme being done by KiwiRail to get us up to spec.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ENZTA told us we\u2019re investing about half what we should be in maintenance. So it\u2019s no wonder we\u2019ve got a few potholes around the place. They also talked about the huge handbrakes that we have in terms of our processes. They particularly noted our consenting regime and the cost of working on the road. There are some real, huge opportunities there that we as \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D should be grasping to make sure that we gain those benefits. The cost of working on the road is going to be an ongoing focus for our select committee. In fact, we\u2019ve already done some more work in that area. We also discussed things like access to materials, so, for example, quarries and landfills. The observation they made is that if we don\u2019t do that, we are going to have to go further and further and further for aggregate, further and further and further to dispose of stuff, and that is costing more and also more carbon emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThey also said that in planning for infrastructure, it\u2019s obvious you need to know how many people you are planning for. One of the things which is absolute music to my ears\u2014because I\u2019ve been saying this for 40 years\u2014is that we need a population strategy and we need an immigration strategy, and we haven\u2019t had one of those worthy of the\u00A0name for all of those 40-odd years. Personally, I found the entirety of the session we\u00A0had with the commission to be immensely exciting and full of opportunity for \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D to do much, much better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWe also spent a lot of time with the energy companies and Transpower, and they mapped out a road to decarbonisation. What I think we had confidence in, particularly from the mixed-ownership model companies, is that they have a pathway to actually deliver that, which is not so apparent with the rest of the infrastructure providers\u2014probably because it\u2019s at least a partially private model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ETranspower\u2019s investment, of course, is subject to the Commerce Commission process. They actually said that there are some real challenges, not only with the Commerce Commission saying, \u201CYes, That\u2019s OK. It\u2019s good discipline.\u201D, but also in getting access to land. Transpower said that the ability to do that is relatively weak. Also, again, the consenting process is challenging.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWe also heard from the power generators that the cost of re-consenting\u2014not of\u00A0consenting but of re-consenting\u2014is astronomically expensive. There is a place that\u00A0we could look to do things faster, quicker, and there is, I understand, legislation that is\u00A0being considered by Parliament that might assist in that that area if it were chosen. We also heard that the mixed-ownership model is working well, and the companies told\u00A0us that the market is good at sending commercial signals. We also heard that the assets are ageing and the majority of the grid is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287a7664d86e24735abb3ac9584bf0387\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Andy Foster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce674ccac9f14261983540f9afbcaa0d\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: I know that my time\u2019s up; I\u2019m just waiting for you to call me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279a0400a82a345a8a0119c03cd40b8f2\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m just calling you again because the original five minutes is up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221035fb8e1dc74287bd87d75341e90e98\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh! Excellent. So I can keep going a bit slower. Oh, brilliant; I\u2019ll carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873ec9e88fa14856bbd4954331ee2e9d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s all time-bound, so you\u2019re all in charge of your own time frames, right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259fa7ebf45974cd184ee555559391544\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll rush a bit slower. Look, thank you, Madam Chair\u2014so I could slow down just a little bit. Transpower told us that its assets are ageing. They said that most of the grid is 60-plus years old and that some of the assets are over 80 years old. They gave us a really good example of the value of investing in new technology. They talked about two substations that were caught in Cyclone Gabrielle: an older one failed; a newer one didn\u2019t. Of course, what that did is it kept the lights on in that area and it meant that they didn\u2019t have to go around and put the lights back on again and do a serious amount of work there. They also discussed the importance of electricity system resilience to natural hazards, human action, and cyber-attacks. They also talked about the importance of building good relationships with the communities through which their transmission network flows. But they build those over time; they don\u2019t just build them when they need to get a consent to do something new\u2014I thought that was a very important message.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ELook, the last thing I\u2019m going to say or talk about\u2014which came across from a lot of the organisations, whether it was in the electricity area, whether it was in the infrastructure area, whether it was in the roading area\u2014is the importance of access to talent. What they said is that, in many cases, we have an ageing workforce that is working in these areas. The concern, of course, is that you lose that ageing workforce. If you don\u2019t have people trained to come in and do the work, especially as we need to do more infrastructure work, that is going to be a real problem. So that is not just an infrastructure issue; it is where there is an interface with the education system, where there\u2019s an interface with the apprenticeship system. Again, there\u2019s an opportunity and a challenge for us, for \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D, to do some serious work to get our infrastructure, if you like, back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a2c753989334f76b0da27e99fbc7332\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e691d2ba4b744e4995ea58ca17f2f94c\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, \u201Cback on track\u201D; that\u2019s what I said. Look, we\u2019ve got some really good messages from all the organisations that we heard from. I think, if you look at them carefully and thoughtfully, there is a real opportunity to add significantly. We\u2019ve talked a lot as a Government and we should be thinking a lot as a Parliament about how we become more productive. There is several percent on GDP that we have highlighted just there, and if we keep focusing on those things we will make a material difference to our country going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EIf I might use just a fraction of the time that I\u2019ve got left, we did some further work on looking at working on the road. Councils at the moment are saying, \u201CHey, we need more money.\u201D But if you said to them, \u201CI\u2019ve been and talked to some of the council.\u201D, they\u2019ll say, \u201CTraffic management is costing us 40 percent of the cost of some of the projects that we\u2019re undertaking.\u201D\u201440 percent. If you could knock that down to a reasonable, say, 10 percent, imagine how much money that is leaving in their pockets to do more work or that they don\u2019t have to rate higher for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo when we\u2019re all saying we want more money, more money, more money for all sorts of things, the first thing that we need to do is do things more efficiently. If we can do things more efficiently, we can get better value for money, we can leave more money in ratepayers\u2019 pockets, more money in taxpayers\u2019 pockets, and we can buy more social services, more whatever services that we want to do. So there\u2019s a real opportunity there. That, I think, is the message which came through from the things that we heard as the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. I commend our report to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205ba1fec07404743a12216b7709463e1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I\u2019m going to take a call from the honourable Minister Simeon Brown. Just to perhaps reiterate for the committee at this point, it\u2019s a time-bound debate and each party will be responsible for timing themselves out. So check in with your whips in terms of how long time might be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002264653ff80bf94e3c8713339f91783ed9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264653ff80bf94e3c8713339f91783ed9\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I just say thank you to the chair of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, Andy Foster, for your remarks, and for the opportunity to be able to speak in this debate. I\u2019ll just make a few short opening remarks and then I\u2019m looking forward to the engagement and the questions from members of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s economy relies on a transport system which helps to facilitate the efficient movement of people and freight. That\u2019s why our Government\u2019s priorities are to boost economic growth and productivity, increase maintenance and resilience, improve safety, and achieve value for money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe reality is that we\u2019ve come to Government at a time\u2014and I think the annual reviews show this\u2014where our transport infrastructure is in a poor state. It\u2019s crucial we recognise the magnitude of the challenges that we have ahead of us and what we need to do to fix them. Kiwis are faced with worsening congestion. Our State highways have been peppered with 62,000 potholes in the last year, and the last Government was focused on trying to tell people to get out of their cars and trying to tell them to drive really, really slowly, rather than actually trying to stay focused on the basics. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn the last six years, they didn\u2019t start and complete one single major infrastructure project, pavement rehabilitation on our State highways declined 27 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ef44f025ede4d07b4553c03695903cb\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ff9aaadb3724a7f9ed88e6dd56468e4\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u201427 percent\u2014leading to a surge in potholes, and their focus was spending hundreds of millions of dollars on things like Auckland light rail, where $228\u00A0million had been spent on simply doing nothing but writing more and more business cases and glossy documents. Ultimately, they cancelled the roads of national significance programme. They then had to reheat that with the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, which has been faced with delays, cancellations, cost escalations, and, ultimately, an Auditor-General\u2019s report which was incredibly damning of how that has been run by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve come to Government and we\u2019ve been given very clear evidence that there\u2019s a $200 billion hole between the last Government\u2019s aspirations and what was actually funded, and now we have to make sure we get transport back on track. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve released our draft Government policy statement (GPS) on transport, which is focused on the core priorities of building and maintaining our transport network. It outlines our priorities around reinstating the roads of national significance so we can get people where they need to go quickly and safely, unlock economic growth and productivity in our economy, improve maintenance on our roads, and make sure that we are improving safety as well as getting better value for money out of our transport system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo this Government has a very clear plan when it comes to our transport sector and what needs to be done to address those challenges. We will invest more in road maintenance, but we will also ensure we\u2019re getting better value for money out of every single dollar that is being spent. We will ensure that we\u2019re investing in public transport, we\u2019re investing in the roads of national significance, we\u2019re going to continue to invest in rail, but, ultimately, every single thing that we invest in, we will be asking the New Zealand Transport Agency, KiwiRail, all of the transport road controlling authorities to make sure that there is value for money coming from every single dollar that New Zealanders pay into the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWhether they\u2019re ratepayers or taxpayers, they expect value for money out of their transport system, and I think the reality is that over the last six years, there has been a lot\u00A0of talk, a lot of documents being written, but, actually, other than the $490,000 speed bumps, there hasn\u2019t been a lot of delivery. That\u2019s what New Zealanders want this Government to be focused on. That\u2019s what the draft GPS does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00224d7b1f84a2ff460fba11a7682cdc4186\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d7b1f84a2ff460fba11a7682cdc4186\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana. Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I just acknowledge the chair of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, Andy Foster, and members that progressed this annual review. I think it\u2019s fair to say that it did inform some potential items for the committee\u2019s work schedule, as well, that we\u2019re all looking forward to working through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI have a number of questions for the Minister. The first is around public transport. The Minister has touched on that himself; he has, effectively, brought into this debate a forward-looking focus by talking about all of the things that the Government intends to actually do in terms of what\u2019s in the draft Government policy statement. That was not something that we actually looked at in the select committee, but as the Minister has brought it into the debate I will, effectively, head down that path.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe first is around public transport, on the very day that the Government has cut or scrapped subsidies for those aged under 25. So my question to the Minister is: how will the Government meet goals around emissions reductions alongside continued incentivisation for public transport usage and whether or not he sees that there is a role in public transport subsidies? In essence, how will this Government continue to support an increased use of public transport in New Zealand in light of the recent decisions that the Government has taken? So that\u2019s the first one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe second one is we also heard from the Ministry of Transport that the Clean Car\u00A0Discount at the time saw an increase in the uptake of electric vehicles (EVs)\u2014actually more than was anticipated and expected. So my question to the Minister is whether or not\u00A0he\u00A0accepts that the initiative did increase the uptake of EVs, and, if so, what other initiatives are in the pipeline to ensure that something similar is going to happen? So that\u2019s question two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EQuestion three is around the Climate Emergency Response Fund and whether or not he agrees that that fund provided an opportunity to make progress around a journey for emissions reduction targets within the sector, and, if so, what particular progress has been made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other question that I want to\u2014and then I\u2019ll perhaps sit down\u2014put to the Minister is in the area of the roading projects. During the hearing, we did hear about the \u201Croads of National Party significance\u201D and that it would come at a minimum cost estimate of between $30 and $46 billion, which leaves, as the Minister has said, a fiscal hole of $8 billion to $22 billion for him. He did reference the possibility in the hearing of funding and financing tools to meet transport infrastructure needs, but he hadn\u2019t received any specific advice from Waka Kotahi at that stage. So my question is: has he reflected on that, and, if so, how does he see himself progressing consideration of those funding and financing tools, in particular to meet the apparent fiscal hole that he has in his transport plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00220f76878cd6144a7da0f4c72b9976cb74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f76878cd6144a7da0f4c72b9976cb74\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to the member for those questions. The first question was in regards to public transport, and, as outlined in the draft Government policy statement on transport, there is, I think, up to $2.3 billion allocated to public transport services as part of that draft Government policy statement. That is an adequate activity range class to ensure investment in the public transport services that New Zealanders need in order to make sure we are getting people where they need to go, particularly in our larger urban centres where we need to make sure we\u2019re tackling congestion. And so that\u2019s a really important part of the draft Government policy statement on transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the question also was in regards to concessions and I would note that there are a range of concessions which still exist in place which Auckland Transport, Wellington, and Christchurch have all put in place, and there will continue to be concessions for those people. The Government will continue to support SuperGold, Total Mobility, and Community Connect for people who have community services cards, and there will continue to be concessions for those on tertiary students, students, and children as well. And so there will continue to still be support for those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESecond question was in relation to the Clean Car Discount scheme, and I would note he didn\u2019t talk about the tax side of the equation in terms of the question. The ute tax\u2014the ute tax\u2014of course, this was the reverse Robin Hood scheme that the last Government thought was the best thing. Ultimately, though, I think what the last Government did was very good for Elon Musk. Elon Musk did very well out of it. I think it was something like $115 million of subsidies for Elon Musk. But the reality is this was also punishing our farmers, and so we have axed the ute tax because, ultimately\u2014and also, the other thing about that scheme: entirely financially unsustainable. Over $300 million of taxpayers\u2019 money put into the scheme\u2014over $300 million of taxpayers\u2019 money put into that scheme, which could have gone to health, education, law and order, all of those other priorities. But instead the last Government thought subsidising people to buy a Tesla or a Porsche or some other type\u2014they\u2019re all good cars; they\u2019re great, but the reality is that\u2019s how the last Government prioritised that. People can make those choices and people will continue to make those choices, but that\u2019s what the last Government chose to do instead; hundreds of millions of dollars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe third question, in regards to the Climate Emergency Response Fund (CERF), and the advice is that, ultimately, there\u2019s a range of different initiatives which fell within the CERF. Ultimately, this Government is taking the view that the emissions trading scheme needs to do the heavy lifting when it comes to our emissions\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6ff3d30eb84413bb0364d802b8f4a78\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just ask for a little bit of order. Interjections are fine, but the Minister might be answering questions that somebody wants to know the answer to. So interjections are fine, but it\u2019s just too constant. Thank you. Honourable Minister, keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022973b4a0e0ce54bb7ad2fc651b11372ef\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. Finally, asking about roading projects and, of course, it\u2019s great to be talking about roading projects once again. As outlined in the draft Government policy statement on transport, we will be looking at all funding and financing mechanisms in order to deliver the infrastructure that New Zealanders need, just like they do in other countries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddc7f843367446d28c5e628a833709ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddc7f843367446d28c5e628a833709ec\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much for that contribution, Minister. I am really looking forward to hearing from the Minister of Transport because he has repeatedly stated that there was insufficient investment in highways and roads under the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EI wonder if the Minister could enlighten the committee, for the year under financial review, what the top three activity classes were in terms of percentage of the National Land Transport Fund. Can he confirm that State highway improvements were the No. 3 investment under the previous Government\u2014that almost $1 billion was spent on State highway improvements just in the financial year under review, not including the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, and that the only two activity classes that exceeded that, at 20 percent and 18 percent, were State highway maintenance and local road maintenance, and that, therefore, the vast majority of the transport budget under the previous Government was being spent on highways and local roads?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214b70a835d114123bcbc2e58a5b2467c\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: What about new highways?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229baa934f09834d05ba8c6c0c70e6d844\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: New roads was the third-highest activity class, and I will say for the benefit of the National member of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, who signed off this very report\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f8bf1b979ac421991dab4ba1fc055ad\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: The deputy chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd9e22f846bb4c309beabfc704fa5f30\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014deputy chair\u2014that the vast majority of the transport budget under the previous Labour Government was spent on highways and local roads; that, in fact, nearly $1 billion was spent on State highway improvements. And while the Minister goes on and on about one raised pedestrian crossing in Auckland, not even 3\u00A0percent\u2014not even 3 percent\u2014of the transport budget was spent on walking and cycling improvements. Can he confirm that those are in fact the numbers\u2014that, under the last Labour Government, which supposedly spent so much on alternatives to cars, in fact only\u00A03 percent of the transport budget was spent on walking and cycling, and that a tiny percentage was spent on public transport relative to new State highways?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EAlthough I know the National Party cannot help but believe in their own talking points that have nothing to do with reality, in fact, if the Minister is truly committed to the transport improvements that he says he is, how does he expect people to respond to a congestion charge or a toll if there is not sufficient investment in public transport or safe walking and cycling infrastructure in our urban areas? What is his plan to give people actual choice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002206ff6590aae24ca48cf1b36a094eaf06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206ff6590aae24ca48cf1b36a094eaf06\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the member the Hon Julie Anne Genter outlining some of the elements of the annual review report that was from the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. I would point her to page 29 of the draft Government policy statement on transport, which invests in public transport services, public transport infrastructure, and walking and cycling improvements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u00222c962abbdd314b9ca2aa7a7f7e89674c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c962abbdd314b9ca2aa7a7f7e89674c\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Can the Minister of Transport confirm that the amount in the draft Government policy statement which he has just referred to is only 1 percent of the transport budget on walking and cycling improvements, and a lower percentage than in the previous year, which was still a minority of the transport budget on public transport? And now we\u2019re in a situation where New Zealand has the highest car ownership in the entire world because people don\u2019t have a choice because of\u00A0decades of insufficient investment in alternatives that people would be happy to use, that would do more for the people who need to use the roads, and that would do more to move people and goods efficiently. To now invest in alternatives to having to own so many cars\u00A0and spend literally billions, tens of billions of dollars\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdba6204be304da099c7a45ae873658b\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: People in the regions need roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b55f71c076cb4b55ae680eacff634902\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: No one is questioning whether or not people in the regions need roads. The question is: what is the best investment to move people and goods now and that reduces the cost burden of transport on businesses and people in New Zealand? Does the Minister understand that the best way to move more people and goods now is to invest in better public transport, and walking and cycling in our urban areas, and inter-city rail and buses and ferries in the rest of our country, so that the people using the roads don\u2019t have to compete with so many other cars and trucks? The single most inconvenient thing for someone trying to drive somewhere is not someone on a bike, it\u2019s not someone on public transport; it\u2019s the other cars and trucks that are clogging up our roads and damaging the roads, along with extreme weather events which are caused by carbon emissions. By the way, one of our single largest sources of carbon emissions is our transport system. What is the plan to change that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00226bc4761a193a45fc9aebae1affb7614d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bc4761a193a45fc9aebae1affb7614d\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member the Hon Julie Anne Genter for her question, and I would just note that page 29 of the draft Government policy statement\u2014and I\u2019m happy to give her a copy\u2014does include investment in public transport services, does include investment in public transport infrastructure, and does include investment in walking and cycling improvements. On this side of the House, we\u00A0think we should be investing in a range of transport modes. The reality is that, for the last six years, we\u2019ve had a Government\u2014ex-Government\u2014which used to say, \u201CWe\u2019re going to build Auckland light rail, and we\u2019re going to start it in 2021.\u201D Well, they had six\u00A0years and nothing happened. The last National Government started the City Rail Link,\u00A0and it\u2019s soon going to be completed, and that is $5 billion of investment into our rail network in Auckland, which is going to unlock significant opportunities for Aucklanders wanting to use public transport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo I am incredibly proud of our track record of delivering in public transport infrastructure, because we actually got stuff started and we will get things done. I am incredibly proud of our track record when it comes to building roads, because we started it and we will get things done. The last Government spent an awful lot of time talking about things, talking about Auckland light rail, spending $227 million on business case reports and consultancy reports and glossy documents and no delivery\u2014absolutely no delivery. The members opposite say, \u201CWell, what about Auckland?\u201D Well, what Aucklanders want and what Aucklanders voted for is delivery, and that is what this Government is focused on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00229732d037ada2466198d24ce462d8822e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229732d037ada2466198d24ce462d8822e\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I still haven\u2019t heard from the Minister whether or not he accepts that the Clean Car Discount\u2019s initiative did increase the uptake of electric vehicles\u2014that was the question that I asked and he still has neglected to address that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ECan I just turn to this issue of congestion charging, because it is something the Minister has brought up in his contributions already. He did, to be fair, note it in the hearing that congestion was a particular challenge in front of the committee. I\u2019m interested to hear what progress has been made with mechanisms that seek to address congestion reduction, whether that\u2019s congestion charging or whether that\u2019s tolling; where the Minister sees these particular mechanisms might work, where they would be applied, and what rationale he might have for such locations at this stage. It\u2019s also pleasing to hear that he\u2019s certainly not pushing back on the fiscal hole of between $8 billion and $22 billion for him to deliver his National Party roads of significance there\u2014so that\u2019s interesting to hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe other is around rail. Now, in the draft Government policy statement (GPS) there is little comment on rail\u2014in particular, inter-regional rail. Does the Minister agree that the investment in rail that\u2019s subject to this period needs to be sustained at the same or at an increased level of investment for the period that\u2019s under review? Does he also agree\u00A0that the levels of projected funding to support the long-term future of what is the lower North Island rail package\u2014for Manawat\u016B, Wairarapa, and K\u0101piti lines\u2014are sufficient to ensure the completion of that package in its entirety; and whether he\u2019s committed to ensuring that that is tagged funding? And, alongside that, his commitment or otherwise around Te Huia service between the Waikato and Auckland, which is partway through a five-year funding opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ECan I just have one more question which is around the suggestion of moving things off the road and the Minister\u2019s view around coastal shipping, particularly around freight? That\u2019s been the subject of questions in this House. It is still relevant to the draft GPS around land transport, even though it is part of the blue highway; and whether or not he sees there is a role of support for coastal shipping in order to efficiently move freight off the roads, off rail, into other areas of the community, provide some resilience capacity for communities as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022c64fc6fd06f04606b72b20c895a2aad1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c64fc6fd06f04606b72b20c895a2aad1\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I\u00A0thank the member for the range of questions. I believe we\u2019ve already answered the member\u2019s questions in regards to the Clean Car Discount. It\u2019s very good and effective at subsidising people\u2019s choices, and ultimately, they can make those choices themselves and, actually\u2014so I\u2019ve already commented on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn terms of congestion charge; time-of-use charging. As noted in the draft Government policy statement (GPS), there is work under way on that in a range of other revenue reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn terms of the lower North Island\u2014the rail improvement\u2014that is noted on page 13 of the draft GPS as being a priority for this Government and to be funded from a combination of Crown grants, National Land Transport Fund, and local share contributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn regards to Te Huia, that is a matter for the New Zealand Transport Agency board, ultimately, in terms of deciding what to do with that particular service. It was funded, I\u00A0think, as a trial. Ultimately the board will make a decision as part of the mid-point review as to what should happen there next.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn terms of coastal shipping, I think I\u2019ve had this question asked of me before and I\u00A0think the clue\u2019s in the name. When you call something the \u201CNational Land Transport Fund\u201D, you sort of think the \u201CLand\u201D part could be quite important\u2014so the clue\u2019s in the name. So the coastal shipping is on the water\u2014the coastal shipping\u2019s on the water\u2014and this is the National Land Transport Fund. So I know the last Government was very keen\u2014and there\u2019s a lot that can be done to support coastal shipping without simply\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022732d9ffaa96c4a8593923b117c1dcac5\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Just not from your Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7743c3a0dcc43ffa3255b05b90273b6\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014well, without just putting money to something. This is the problem the last Government had: everything needed to have money put into it. When, ultimately, actually, if you look at one of one of the biggest challenges facing shipping in New Zealand right now is the fact that the Port of Tauranga can\u2019t get a consent for an additional berth. Because of that, they have ships waiting to get into that port to be able to load and unload their cargo.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo there are many other things we can be doing as a Government to actually make the ability to\u2014for our supply chains to work more efficiently, and most of it actually means getting the red and green tape out of the way rather than just simply throwing money at a problem. So that\u2019s the focus of our Government: let\u2019s fix the consenting framework, let\u2019s actually make sure we\u2019re able to\u2014for our ports to be able to operate efficiently. Those connections to our ports are really important: that\u2019s where the roads of national significance are really, really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EActually, the market will determine what is the most efficient means in order to move that freight. I know there are a lot of companies which are looking at how they move\u00A0their freight. There\u2019s an awful lot of freight which is moved on coastal shipping already via many of the foreign shipping lines which come in port and go down the country and\u00A0back up again. So these are problems which we think that we need to do and take a\u00A0different approach in order to achieve those outcomes rather than just simply throwing money at the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0717c469d3a4e47bfc97a543310633c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0717c469d3a4e47bfc97a543310633c\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s been a great debate so far, looking back. I\u2019m keen to hear from the Minister of Transport around the Auckland regional fuel tax. I\u2019m keen to know how much was collected by the previous Government on it, what it was spent on, and how much was unspent. I\u2019m keen to know, really, did it achieve what it was set up to achieve or did it just punish more Aucklanders at the pump?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002289cdc24c52544b9584ad9ffdf7918e24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289cdc24c52544b9584ad9ffdf7918e24\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for that question. That was a fuel tax put in place by the last Government, effectively charging Aucklanders an extra 11.5c per litre every time they filled up their car.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EUltimately, when the fuel tax was put in place, Aucklanders were told this was going to build Mill Road\u2014major infrastructure projects like that. Well, it raised, I think, something like $700\u00A0million or $750 million, and it spent about $450 million. There was about $300\u00A0million unspent when we came into Government. So about $300 million actually raised from Aucklanders\u2014about two years\u2019 worth of Auckland regional fuel tax had been collected off Aucklanders but hadn\u2019t actually been spent. So that\u2019s one problem with the regional fuel tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EInstead of people getting Mill Road, every time they filled up their car, they thought they were filling up their car and they\u2019d get Mill Road built a bit faster, actually they get a speed bump. And not just one but dozens and dozens of them across Auckland, which were, of course, costing\u2014and I know my colleague from the Green Party doesn\u2019t like me saying this, but one of them costing $490,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022103487374be04779b44cd3a0b7e929d9\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298dcfa6f0e154595aef637ef07e74eb8\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: $490,000. So the reality is Aucklanders were being taxed more to be slowed down, rather than to get actual infrastructure delivered. And so, of course, on coming to Government, we passed legislation. The tax will end on 1 July\u2014two months from today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022a069c3e4137c4256ba87a0c754596f04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a069c3e4137c4256ba87a0c754596f04\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. I\u00A0will take a short call and I have some specific questions to ask the Minister about transport projects in the South Island, because I think I might be the first member to speak tonight from the South Island.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd92c5068491428b925cc4924a366742\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Not many, if any.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c5fb05d698b4ef0944832595c9659fc\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, exactly. If you look at the new Government policy statement, you\u2019ll see there are not many, if any projects in the South Island.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d91896117bc408ab0cf96e14d1843fe\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Ashburton Bridge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229247d7b233e7443c8f94c4d6ceaf982a\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Can\u2019t you read? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eef658f3e67c4d6fb5cd9f85c89d8c8f\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: I can read\u2014very well, actually. And there are two\u2014there are two. One of which is in my electorate, the Hope bypass. The question is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b6a81dd0b8b4d3eb2db34a0388b5084\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, there you go. What are you complaining about? What\u2019s your problem? Congratulate the mayor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022210cbc7826814ce08f85130baaef6aa4\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s really interesting when people think they know about my electorate; you\u2019re welcome to come and have a look and I\u2019ll show you around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EMy comment is around the fact that we had two projects in the previous Government policy statement because our regional transport committee had identified two priority projects, one of which is the Hope bypass, and I\u2019ve just referenced that the reason the Hope bypass was needed in the first place was that there was a significant amount of housing expansion put in place by the Tasman District Council in the previous National Government as a housing area, and no transport plan. I was shocked when I became the\u00A0member to discover there was literally no plan. So we worked quite hard over the last\u00A0three years to get the plan and to get it into the GPS. Very concerned on that project to see that it\u2019s actually going to be consented three years later than was originally planned\u2014so not being consented until around 2026, not being built until around 2029,\u00A0which is a lot later than what we had planned. So I\u2019d like to know, Minister, why is this\u00A0project being delayed? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf2ca76f2fb8432587ef9f1820d157f5\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Because you cancelled all the roads for six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226400d6707cf84ce7b19bcb48cca0d0eb\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: And the second question\u2014Mr Doocey\u2014is the Rocks Road project, which has been\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288479ef9a3f54e07accf84c8ba3120d7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Genter! Ms Genter! Please resume your seat. OK, we\u2019re just going to have some order here. Sorry, Rachel Boyack, we\u2019re just going to have some order. We know that transport is one of those touchy subjects. But if we want to get the best out of the Minister, interjections are fine, but it would be good if we could actually just ask the questions and let the Minister answer them and have fewer interjections rather than shouting matches, and it\u2019s not appropriate to get out of one\u2019s seat to go and have an argument with somebody on the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237b715b33a5941e3b479ad48366fc11a\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: So I\u2019d like to be able to just tell the story. I\u2019ll tell the story about Rocks Road. One of the things that we did, it had always been connected to another transport project in Nelson, which meant we\u2019d only get it if the Southern Link was built. We separated it out for a reason: so that we could actually look specifically at that project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOne of the issues we have\u2014my question to the Minister\u2014is we have cyclones, we have floods in Nelson, and that road closes. The residents of Nelson who came to a public meeting of mine that I held last week said to me what if they were told when their houses were flooding to travel to inner city Nelson using that road to get to safety and it was closed. What is the Minister going to do about the resilience of Rocks Road, which is over 100 years old and constantly closes? Why is it not in the GPS or in any of the documents from Waka Kotahi? And what is he going to assure the people of Nelson that he will do to improve the safety and resilience of that road?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u002283cfcc63181d4af6a969f40ca6ba9362\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283cfcc63181d4af6a969f40ca6ba9362\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for her questions and I note there are a number of projects in the South Island which are a priority: the Hope bypass, the Ashburton Bridge, and the Woodend-Belfast\u2014the Pegasus motorway and Woodend bypass. I\u2019d also make the point that actually there is proposed investment around improvements around bridges which is a critically important issue in the South Island, and also the increased maintenance which is not only critically important to our roading network across New Zealand but for our State highway network and the resilience that is that is needed, particularly in the South Island.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn terms of the issue in regards to Rocks Road, I mean, ultimately the New Zealand Transport Agency Board is responsible for the prioritisation of projects which are put\u00A0forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4179fe9b3a34174a8ae0d2839d65d42\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: Based on your GPS?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c742b06487114b6db4f09150ef0fba0b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, and we have outlined the roads of national significance as being a priority within the GPS. But ultimately, the board of the New Zealand Transport Agency needs to make decisions looking at what all the priorities are and what has been put forward by the regional land transport plans and from the councils, and ultimately that is the board\u2019s decision to weigh those issues up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c62037a367d24aa4bbd28ee64d315520\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c62037a367d24aa4bbd28ee64d315520\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chairperson. A few minutes ago there was an incident that occurred in this Chamber, in this committee, that I have never seen before; it was unprecedented in my experience in this Chamber. I invite you to report back to the Speaker about the actions that took place.\u00A0To have a member rise from her seat, stride across the House, and then confront in a most intimidating manner a member of this Chamber, I think, is utterly unparliamentary and warrants further investigation and sanction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d63ab7d98f294ecd8a96181e0487297a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d63ab7d98f294ecd8a96181e0487297a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Simpson. I will undertake to take that course of action. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u00226636996ab0a8412d987be852f6788d71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226636996ab0a8412d987be852f6788d71\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d just like to address to the Minister the opportunity cost that\u2019s arisen from the lack of the roads of national significance programme after the last few years. We recently had a study done in Northland which showed that in excess of $2 billion of benefits potentially could come to the Northland economy with a four-lane highway to the North, and we\u2019ve recently seen the Brynderwyns, which were going to be opened in a couple of weeks, suffer a significant collapse. So what would be the impact of a decent roads of national significance programme for this country and for the provinces, like Northland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a077953830d149969f5d1de5b324350c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a077953830d149969f5d1de5b324350c\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I thank the member for the question. I acknowledge that it is tough for Northlanders right now with the Brynderwyns closed. That is a really important part of our State highway network, but I also acknowledge that the Mangamukas are also closed due to resilience issues. The New Zealand Transport Agency chose to close it on the basis that that was the most efficient and cost-effective and safe way to be able to make critical improvements to extend the life of that roading project by somewhere up to seven to 10 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003ESo I have 100 percent support for the agency\u2019s decision on that, yet I also accept that it\u2019s had a huge impact on Northland and the impact of having to go on those detours. The news we heard today that that is going to be closed for longer is not great, but, ultimately, that is why we have, as a Government, outlined Whang\u0101rei to Auckland as a road of national significance which is really, really important for resilience but also for economic growth and productivity. We\u2019ve seen the benefits that the Waikato Expressway has brought to the Waikato and to Auckland, and the economic growth and productivity opportunities that that has presented, and we see those opportunities for Northland as well. So the agency is working at pace around that, looking at funding and financing options, what that may look like, but, ultimately, it is critically important that we work at pace on that route due to the serious resilience issues of that existing road as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e05b0a94eb48457b9f810f17f71ce661\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e05b0a94eb48457b9f810f17f71ce661\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The Minister spoke of the range of activities in his purview as Minister. One of them, of course, is under the Civil Aviation Authority and air traffic. Is he aware that where there are changes to flight paths notified under what\u2019s called a DMAP system\u2014which is divergent missed approach protection system\u2014that there are obligations which must be met by the agencies, particularly around consultation and notification? Has he been briefed on where those obligations have not been met, particularly in relation to changes at Wellington Airport and proposed changes which are about to take place at Auckland Airport?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022689253caae6748a48166006824bc6948\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022689253caae6748a48166006824bc6948\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I\u2019m aware of those obligations. I\u2019m not 100 percent sure right now whether\u2014I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve been briefed on those specific changes, recently, but I\u2019ll certainly go and ask for one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222ede4a238f1445c39f7bc0eded285bef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ede4a238f1445c39f7bc0eded285bef\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Well, perhaps if I can clarify: have you been briefed on breaches to those obligations to notify and to consult?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00224ad3ddd1cd0f45f6aeb0a5078387eb1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ad3ddd1cd0f45f6aeb0a5078387eb1c\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Not that I\u2019m aware of, but I\u2019ll go and double-check.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5cba82d465d42818e928cb15efd313f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5cba82d465d42818e928cb15efd313f\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Associate Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you\u2014good choice, Madam Chair. Look, I\u2019ve got a question to the Minister about the very important motorway proposed from Belfast to Pegasus, including the Woodend Bypass, and if he had any understanding of the original cost that was proposed when it was first announced by the last National Government in 2017, and what is that increased cost now through six years of inactivity, with that road being cancelled under the last Government? And potentially his views on whether the increased costs now\u2014that could have actually funded other stuff in New Zealand; other roads and maintenance. And if Rachel Boyack from Nelson believes there should have been a lot more roading projects on your list, why do you think they weren\u2019t built in the last six years under her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00224fcb1c81ff4d425192acca8d51814150\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fcb1c81ff4d425192acca8d51814150\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Madam Chair, I\u00A0just wanted to make it clear that my earlier intervention was a request to recall the\u00A0Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0db1f1e4313487191d80e2d5b0ccf9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0db1f1e4313487191d80e2d5b0ccf9f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, apologies. So I\u2019ve just had that question from the Clerks as to whether you said, \u201Creport to the Speaker\u201D, so you\u2019ve clarified that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u00223b32bb8cbb65447cbf70b775f42241e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b32bb8cbb65447cbf70b775f42241e2\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I\u2019m sorry. I may have\u2014it\u00A0was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00225ce41ea0c2f9417daa5dc554ec3e5430\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ce41ea0c2f9417daa5dc554ec3e5430\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Just speaking to that briefly, and, really, it\u2019s a matter of process because I think Mr Simpson was asking for\u00A0a\u00A0course of action, but the presiding officer hasn\u2019t ruled on any course of action. So\u00A0I\u2019m just not quite\u2014the attempt to recall the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002242b73a0c65c1464bbfa63b7fe4e7ace4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242b73a0c65c1464bbfa63b7fe4e7ace4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, my understanding, to Mr Simpson\u2019s point of order that I would\u2014because the situation is now under control, that I would report what happened back to the Speaker and then come back to the House as to what was resolved. But I now understand that Mr Simpson was asking for something further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c33559e07e7f41bd9572f6453bc99941\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c33559e07e7f41bd9572f6453bc99941\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it was an unprecedented incident in my experience, Madam Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5036998241644ddbf43dc25db1c0cb5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022048418532bfd4bcc844971d6c878253c\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and so I\u2019m a little bit in the hands of the committee. But I think that the incident warranted an intervention, and I understand that the process of the House requires intervention to occur as soon as is practical after an incident.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229cfd2b2a6d241b0a25891149af3207b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, yep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf71340f9d004ed98875bd964d817d4b\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: It was a serious, intimidatory physical attack upon another member in this Chamber and that\u2019s unacceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022266f90b6d75d45708038017a2e39b2af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022266f90b6d75d45708038017a2e39b2af\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: So I have got advice here from the Clerk, just on that point of order, that if a member wants to recall the Speaker by convention, that the Speaker can be recalled. So, at this point, we would ask for the Speaker to be recalled, please. Sorry to Mr Simpson, I misunderstood what you said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224d1fcd7cac4e4a458fb5101529da9994\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002264939e687b8641e1a455bfb32ad0ad83\u0022\u003ESpeaker Recalled\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u002293a1fb8a8771402e8fbf3f5ac5d62d76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293a1fb8a8771402e8fbf3f5ac5d62d76\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ve asked you to be recalled to the Chair because of an incident that took place a few minutes ago during the hearings that the committee was involved with. Rachel Boyack was speaking, and then an interjection and an interaction occurred between my colleague the Hon Matt Doocey, sitting down here, and the Hon Julie Anne Genter, where the honourable member Julie Anne Genter strode across the Chamber of the House and physically accosted Minister Doocey in a threatening, intimidatory way that I think is utterly unbecoming and unparliamentary of this Chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve never seen behaviour of that sort in this Chamber in my time in this House. I think it\u2019s a serious matter that warrants an intervention immediately, and that the member is still sitting in this Chamber without having apologised or accounted for her actions is, I think, intolerable and needs your intervention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EFurther, I\u2019m advised that the footage is clearly available on the parliamentary video\u00A0facility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002223670cd937ad465b8db6ae5fe2cafd7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223670cd937ad465b8db6ae5fe2cafd7d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Therefore, publicly available as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u002277958106acc94235b398b51b4de36f9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277958106acc94235b398b51b4de36f9d\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E May I speak? I was not in the Chamber at the time, but I did see the end of the alleged incident on Parliament TV upstairs. I did not see any contact between the member and the member across\u2014and I appreciate you nodding your head to that. There was no physical contact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI understand from my colleague that she feels strongly about the issue and wanted to\u00A0show the member the actual data in a booklet. She\u2019s a very science- and data - driven human being and she was wanting to show him the actual information in the booklet, and when there was an intervention immediately by the Chair\u2014Barbara Kuriger\u2014the\u00A0member then, rightly, crossed the floor and took her seat and has remained in place since then. That is my understanding of what happened, and I just wanted to convey that to you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7ac446161c94d21accee3140d35019c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7ac446161c94d21accee3140d35019c\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E All of us witnessed this incident. At the time, whilst some of us found some aspects of it quite amusing, looking at the situation from the perspective of there was my colleague, seated, whilst a person was standing over him with a book, making a lot of gestures and angry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a41dbad4160648a4bab168ec2bb8c9ce\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Loud. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cd076b848084a53a3034ec5fcf3971a\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014loud and quite intimidating actions, and I reflected that had that been myself sitting there with either another female or, indeed, if a male was doing that to me, the way that that would be viewed would be quite different. But I feel that no matter who it was, that was an extraordinary outburst, and it was intimidating in its nature\u2014coming from where I was sitting. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc83f274f5d4458b85131a21a8a5d0b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc83f274f5d4458b85131a21a8a5d0b4\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to add to that that from my position, it looked like a huge amount of intimidation that was going on very\u00A0close to the person\u2014standing over the person\u2014and physically shaking a book in\u00A0that person\u2019s face. If that was me, I would have felt very intimidated, and I feel that it was really inappropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffadbfbfb844454980b79541d792e187\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffadbfbfb844454980b79541d792e187\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E If I could apologise for my actions, Mr Speaker. It was the last thing I wanted to do to intimidate anyone in this House. What has absolutely motivated me is a desire to share information that I believe would be of benefit to everyone in this House, and I\u2019m very sorry that if in my passion to do so, I was intimidating. That was not my intention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022d68eb099aad046c9aa930c55c4e19a4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d68eb099aad046c9aa930c55c4e19a4f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is most certainly not unusual for MPs from either side of the House to have discussions that are quiet. They\u2019re normally within the benches\u2014in fact, they\u2019re always within the benches\u2014because it is not appropriate for any MP to stand on the floor of Parliament and to engage in, effectively, debate, if that\u2019s what it was. I\u2019m not in a position to say that I saw it\u2014I\u2019m a bit like Mr Abel. I\u2019m only listening to what I\u2019ve heard, and it doesn\u2019t reflect well on Parliament when we have these sorts of moments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI think the member has just indicated that you\u2019re apologetic for what is, really, what I\u00A0missed, if you like, in the scheme of things. You may in a moment, when I call you\u2014\u00A0hen I call you, you might like to expand on that a little bit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EBut what I do want to say to all members of the House is that if any member believes at any point that anyone has breached the Standing Orders or breached the privilege of the House, which is to speak freely and to speak in an environment where you\u2019re unintimidated by anybody else and in an environment where your views are challenged only from the speaking position of the person who might like to challenge them\u2014that is debate. Beyond that, it becomes, potentially, something else. I\u2019ll hear for the last time from Julie Anne Genter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002219c699d3243a48ac8310a57c0208d2d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219c699d3243a48ac8310a57c0208d2d9\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E Apologies, Mr Speaker. I didn\u2019t hear the last thing you said\u2014you\u2019d hear from me? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ea9a5c910e48d08e3468518de438bb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it was incredibly wise, so I\u2019m sorry that you missed it. I just said that it is totally inappropriate for there to be any actions that can in any way be considered intimidating, so that\u2019s where you\u2019re at. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e71915dac091414b999cf010c9bb995f\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: That is, Mr Speaker, why I\u2019m apologising that I was physically intimidating. It was not my intention\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f716cf83cf5467c9adfb63bf250db24\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220639febde363430f8a078b0ef4235b44\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I will not do that in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7a75f3c50d544b49dced3152af1573d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7a75f3c50d544b49dced3152af1573d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good. Well, we don\u2019t want to see that happen again. If the member feels that her passionate feelings about the matters being debated are to such a point where you feel like you need to intervene like that, I would suggest that quietly going out of the House would be a much better solution and far more orderly than approaching anybody in their benches. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d just state again that I think we\u2019ll now return to the committee, but if anyone feels as though there has been a breach of privilege, then they know that there is a course of action to follow in that regard. The House is back in committee. The committee is\u00A0resumed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226c70894f1b974a44b3410f4839508bdb\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000684\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e53e0d2004cf46b59774da3073c24958\u0022\u003ETransport (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2048328d3604bb781312154e7b4156a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2048328d3604bb781312154e7b4156a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, I\u2019m just going to explain, because we\u2019ve actually spent a little bit of time focusing on the issue that\u2019s just occurred. The Minister has indicated that he can stay here up until 8.40 p.m., so we will continue the committee stage for a couple more questions, and then we\u2019ll carry on back into the House business after that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u0022329a7d2f744149b0a2925983fc210365\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022329a7d2f744149b0a2925983fc210365\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I have a question\u2014actually, it arose out of the comments, Minister, you made about coastal shipping and innovative thinking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe circumstances I want to draw to your attention\u2014and this is a South Island question, Rachel. You will all be aware of the damage that was done to the Marlborough Sounds roads in the big floods at the end of 2022. We\u2019re now in the circumstance where there\u2019s a huge amount of putting them back together again and resilience work that\u2019s needed to be done; I\u2019ve actually had a look at some of it. Particularly in the more extreme Sounds area, the cost of the roading solution is actually a really, really large cost, but it gets a subsidy. So that may, for the local council, be the cheapest option. However, the coastal option doesn\u2019t get a subsidy but may be a cheaper option overall for \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D, so the combination of ratepayer and taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m drawing that to your attention and asking if that is something that you could give consideration to and the agency could give consideration to as a lateral way of trying to deliver the outcome at the least possible cost for the best possible benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0063c6eea754853a9fd75da761069db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0063c6eea754853a9fd75da761069db\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just going back to the Minister\u2019s responses around the \u201Croads of National Party significance\u201D and the $30 billion to $46 billion cost, it really is embarrassing that only three of them relate to the South Island. I know the Minister\u2019s very generous in terms of his time this evening but he\u2019s just not giving in the spirit to the mainlanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI do want to move on to two other areas. The first is road safety and speed. I wonder if the Minister can hear my question\u2014either Minister. There was acceptance in the hearing, by Waka Kotahi, that the strategy and approach that had decreased the level of\u00A0road deaths to date, which was currently the lowest it had been in the last five years despite the traffic volumes on the network increasing by 6 percent during that time\u2014and\u00A0was\u00A0wanting to know how that strategy or approach aligns with the Government\u2019s approach to speed reduction initiatives. On the DSI stat\u2014or the death and serious injury\u00A0statistics\u2014how have they informed the Minister\u2019s decision-making approach to speed\u00A0reductions in that particular space? And then also whether he accepts or not that road safety is a primary consideration in this space and what advice he\u2019s either sought or advice he has received about the impact of increasing speed limits on road crash numbers, on fatalities, and really looking at what that priority level looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe final point I want to ask the Minister a question about is around drivers\u2019 licences and whether he agrees, as was placed in front of the committee, that there are, in fact, inequities when it comes to M\u0101ori members of the community, but also actually around Pacific and new migrants, and, if so, what specific actions he is taking to address those transport inequities for them that\u2019s actually referenced in the select committee report, and how the specific barriers around licensing for either new drivers or relicensed drivers might actually be overcome as a result of some of the work that he has planned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00224cb9c5e6cb5142c58ea1e166cbc1c635\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cb9c5e6cb5142c58ea1e166cbc1c635\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to thank members for their questions. I note my colleague the Hon Matt Doocey asked about the Belfast to Pegasus motorway and Woodend bypass. I think, when it was initially proposed, it was something around $100 million, I think\u2014the project\u2014$120 million. Of course, that was some time ago. The reality is the fact that that was not delivered under the last Government but was cancelled will mean those costs have gone up, and that ultimately means we are delivering less as a Government. The last Government makes it more challenging to deliver other projects now due to that increased cost, so we are left with the significant challenges that we have in terms of the pipeline of projects that are needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn terms of member Andy Foster and his question around the issue in Marlborough, I acknowledge the challenges there. Ultimately, what we\u2019re focused toward here is making sure we get the agency back to core business building and maintaining the roads. And ultimately, there\u2019s been significant engagement between the agency and the council in Marlborough to ensure that the appropriate response is made in terms of addressing many of those challenges. But I acknowledge that with these severe weather events, they do create some difficult challenges for local communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn relation to the question from member Tangi Utikere around safety\u2014and, of course, safety is one of the strategic priorities within the draft Government policy statement (GPS) on transport, and if he was to turn to page 18 of the draft GPS he would see the significant increase that has occurred in the last 10 years of deaths and crashes involving alcohol or drugs. That has gone from around 100 deaths per year involving alcohol or drugs to near 200 deaths involving alcohol and drugs. And so, of course, a priority is to ensure that we can fix the legislation regarding drug testing and progress is being made on that in drafting that legislation. The second is in relation to increasing the number of breath tests on our roads\u2014a critically important thing, and I\u2019m noting that last year I think there was close to the target of breath tests achieved but for the previous number of years that had not been achieved. That is a really important measure of actually trying to improve road safety, and critically important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EAlso just ensuring that we\u2019re building the roading infrastructure that New Zealanders need. And, of course, we\u2019ve seen the evidence of, for example, the K\u0101piti Expressway, where there\u2019s been a significant reduction in deaths and serious injuries in the K\u0101piti area following the construction of the K\u0101piti Expressway. And so it\u2019s critically important we build the major infrastructure that New Zealanders need so people can get where they need to go quickly and safely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2ed68e07b6c417393642a18a131d7f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2ed68e07b6c417393642a18a131d7f6\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the committee report progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223b38cd63c1c54273b32fb617a79d2b8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b38cd63c1c54273b32fb617a79d2b8f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Appropriation (2022/23 Confirmation and Validation) Bill and reports progress. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224db6bf35afe641daa386681814e66221\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002240777d29a3ca463e8fad87903fa92272\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000706\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 30 April.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9d5f424480146359c9c4cc6cffb798b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9d5f424480146359c9c4cc6cffb798b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We have call No. 6, which is a split call. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori have the first call. No, they\u2019re not\u2014so we\u2019ll call, ah, Celia Wade-Brown. Excuse me, Ms Wade-Brown, I\u2019m having an attack of \u201CSpeaker-itis\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5b4f53bf93c44e7baa0f2d6bade3b5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5b4f53bf93c44e7baa0f2d6bade3b5f\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to express the Green Party\u2019s support for this bill, the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill. The Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation perform an extremely important service for today\u2019s superannuitants and those fortunate enough to live to 65 in the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003ESuperannuation is about the only benefit that is not means-tested, and that near-universality is admirable. It isn\u2019t perfect. There are complexities about how people who are New Zealand residents who work here for years and commit their hearts to this country can be put through the wringer because they\u2019re not born here, or they\u2019re born here, but they\u2019ve worked overseas for a few years. But that is a debate about entitlement and equity, and about fund distribution, not investment, and thus is for another day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EToday\u2019s debate is about widening the power of the Guardians so that they can do an even better job within the existing economic system. It is the only economic system in the OECD without either a capital gains tax nor a wealth tax, and I know that my colleagues across the House really value being part of the OECD and give us great examples about how we should follow their example in other areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EAs Treasury notes, removing the control restriction may enable the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to access a wider group of viable investment partners. This could attract institutional investors who are comfortable with the Guardians\u2019 due diligence practices, particularly as the Guardians look for scalable investment opportunities such as strategic infrastructure. The Greens would question what strategic infrastructure might be chosen. We feel, for example, that housing is an undeniable public good, whereas new motorways may be less so, but I think we may have had enough debate on transport for the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Superannuation Fund has a reputation of being world leading in environmental, social, and governance\u2014ESG for short\u2014integration, and it uses its\u00A0influence as a shareholder to encourage companies to manage and report on their ESG risks. So it is helping companies, basically, do the right thing, and often the right thing is good for investment, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003ENow, there are several excellent exclusions. So to those people who have spoken earlier in the debate and said, \u201COh, we\u2019ve got to be careful not to tell them how to run their business or what to invest in.\u201D, let me just make a few notes of what the exclusions are. The New Zealand Superannuation Fund does not invest in companies in the tobacco industry, and, presumably, Minister Costello is not planning an amendment there. Another exclusion is companies involved in the processing of whale meat. Fortunately, whales are much larger than frogs, so I presume that they\u2019re going to continue to be safe, although their seabed may be trashed. Very topically, another New Zealand Superannuation Fund exclusion is companies involved in developing settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories. The fourth example is companies involved in the manufacture of civilian automatic and semi-automatic firearms, and, surely, Minister McKee will not suggest an amendment there either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003ESo there is a balance between good principles encouraging better social and environmental behaviour versus political interference in the details of investment. It is a shame that the opportunity for stronger alignment with the Government\u2019s goal\u2014reiterated in James Shaw\u2019s valedictory tonight\u2014of net zero carbon emissions by 2050 was not explicitly taken. But I suspect that in the intelligent investment fund\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5f2aaeb892e4ac1a9f2d27f6205497f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5f2aaeb892e4ac1a9f2d27f6205497f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214adc5f3ae6a4f5da9a35c29c7b51f8d\u0022\u003ECelia Wade-Brown\u003C/span\u003E: I thought I might have the other half of\u2014Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af5d09c27f3d4b72bf8ab71f9de29e10\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The member can ask for leave to complete the other half of the five minutes. She can seek leave to that effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022 data-id=\u002262dff2952f9541b9ad1d2e2ed19d97b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262dff2952f9541b9ad1d2e2ed19d97b8\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E May I seek leave to complete the No. 6 slot? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee67ff0f42c846748e04c541ceec25d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee67ff0f42c846748e04c541ceec25d1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The member seeks leave to complete her time. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002208569f908c0b4f07b09fbf8c733063eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208569f908c0b4f07b09fbf8c733063eb\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise unexpectedly because I thought I had another five minutes before I got to my feet. But, that being said, we can adapt\u2014that\u2019s fine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a pleasure to speak on the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill\u2014which almost took up a minute. All joking aside, this is a very important bill, and I want to push back on some of the points just\u00A0made\u00A0by Celia Wade-Brown, the previous speaker. But prior to doing that, we should talk about\u00A0what the bill is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EActually, the New Zealand Superannuation Fund is of huge importance to New Zealand, as a whole, and New Zealanders, in particular. We have an ageing population, and we know that. We have an issue with our finances at the moment, and having the Superannuation Fund, which will, in time, be able to underpin our superannuation scheme is, I think, a fantastic resource and an asset that we should ensure has all the tools it needs to operate efficiently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThis bill allows the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation to hold a controlling interest in companies. Currently, they\u2019re precluded from doing that, as I\u2019m sure members are aware. But if we go back and look at what they were founded under, the fund\u2019s purpose was to make money from investments rather than to own companies. That is one of the reasons why they\u2019re not able to hold a controlling interest in a company. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIn the early days, I accept that that was quite a sound rationale, but nowadays things have grown. The fund is worth in the high $60 billion to $70 billion now. That\u2019s a lot of money, and that\u2019s what we lack in our capital markets. We lack depth in our capital markets and that means, often, that companies look offshore. Nothing wrong with overseas investment\u2014I have nothing against that\u2014but having domestic investments is important as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe Guardians have invested quite significantly offshore as well, and they have a balance of investments in all sorts of investments. They\u2019ve got equities and all sorts of other investments, but having a broad portfolio is really important. But now, given the size of the fund and that lack of capital depth in New Zealand, it is important to\u00A0allow them to be able to take an interest, which might well be a controlling interest. That test of a controlling interest is quite interesting, because what is a controlling interest? It\u2019s not necessarily 51 percent, as people might think; it could be quite a bit smaller than that. Because of the way company shareholdings work, it could be as little as 20 percent, or even less in some diverse shareholding companies, which is quite common in equity markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBut I note that Celia Wade-Brown\u2014who is a member I really respect and I respect her opinions, but I do differ on some things that that she said. Investing in strategic infrastructure\u2014yes, I think the problem we run into when we start prescribing what you can and can\u2019t invest in is that you\u2019re then limiting choices. Limiting choices means probably\u2014almost certainly\u2014limiting returns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo we have to make a decision of do we have a superannuation fund that is something we want to achieve political ends with, or is it something we want to secure superannuation with, and I\u2019d argue strongly that it should be the latter. I think we have Kiwis who have worked hard to pay for superannuation. They are investing in their future and their family\u2019s future, effectively, because, with a bit of luck, they might pass something on to their people who are their heirs and successors. So I think it\u2019s important that we, therefore, allow the Superannuation Fund to grow as quickly and as safely as it can, and to do that, it means that we\u2019d need to take a broad range of investment positions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI think we can all agree that we don\u2019t like investing in tobacco. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a good thing. I agree with that\u2014I don\u2019t have any issue with that, at all. But it\u2019s a dying industry anyway, so would you probably invest in it? It\u2019s unlikely. Whale meat\u2014again, the same thing. I don\u2019t think anyone would disagree with that\u2014I certainly wouldn\u2019t. But in settlements in Israel\u2014well, I don\u2019t know. That\u2019s going a bit far away;\u00A0I\u2019m not sure\u00A0about that. Would we even invest in that, given the unrest in that area? I\u00A0think any sound investment manager would say, \u201CWell, that\u2019s not for me.\u201D The\u00A0investment returns would have to be extreme, to say the least, to do that. Then firearms\u2014well, yes, but sometimes firearms are needed. Which ones are we talking about\u2014not sure. We\u2019d have to prescribe that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBut I just gave a speech last week, which I know members would be very interested in, because it was at a public accounts committee conference in Perth. My speech was on sustainability reporting and public accounts committees\u2019 role in that, and one of the issues for me is when you require, say, banks and financial institutions to report on their emissions profile\u2014stay with me on this, Mr Speaker, it does relate to this\u2014that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a16ba6872ec84c79924ebbb63f9d8184\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: As long as it\u2019s not a travel story, Mr\u00A0Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022236998231ec34456a66f33d9113feee8\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was just checking. Once you start prescribing that sort of thing, you end up in a situation where\u2014I went and I visited a farm when I was in Western Australia that I used to work on. They\u2019ve got a tractor that burns 76 litres of diesel an hour.\u00A0If they wanted to buy a more fuel-efficient tractor, electric vehicles are certainly not an option and are nowhere in the future for that type of operation, and they\u2019d go to their bank\u00A0and say, \u201CI\u2019d like some money to buy this new tractor.\u201D and the bank would say, \u201COh, no, we\u2019ve got too many agricultural emissions on our books. We\u2019re not going to lend you\u00A0any money.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the sort of thing that happens when you start prescribing what you can and what you can\u2019t invest in, and I think it\u2019s so short-sighted. We haven\u2019t thought this through. We\u2019re not talking about landmines here. Often, what we\u2019re talking about is energy, which is the blood of life, really. There\u2019s a close relation between energy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae959c8406894f53a6e96c622657f3df\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Crude flows in your veins, Mr Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd017c55741a4faca6df854f0f81c42c\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes. There\u2019s a close relationship between energy and wealth, and wealth and life expectancy, and I would say one thing about life expectancy is that as a politician, I don\u2019t think your life expectancy is going to be that great if you want to reduce the life expectancy of your constituents. I think that is the issue with trying to\u00A0control investment decisions, and I think that the Superannuation Fund is very well\u00A0placed to make investment decisions and to make risk assessments on what their investments should or shouldn\u2019t be. I think we should leave it at that, and that is why I\u00A0wholeheartedly support this bill. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u002220a08da77a2d4d0aab9bc5c2ac346d7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220a08da77a2d4d0aab9bc5c2ac346d7a\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, look, thank you for the opportunity to speak on this bill. It\u2019s a bill on which there\u2019s widespread agreement across the House, but there are just a few issues I would like to touch on in what will be a brief contribution from me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThe first is just to reflect on the nickname that there was for this fund for a long time. It\u00A0was for quite a long time known as the Cullen fund because it was set up by Sir Michael Cullen, who was a very far-sighted Minister of Finance. He gave us KiwiSaver\u2014which has proven a real boon to New Zealand\u2014and also set up the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. The objective was to assist with the payment of superannuation in the years when the baby boomers are retiring, actually, and some of us are getting perilously close to that. So it will assist in that payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a sovereign wealth fund, and over the years, as the fund managers have gotten more and more experience and more capacity to understand investing and have built up experience within New Zealand, it has expanded what it can and can\u2019t invest in. So this is an appropriate move for the Cullen fund\u2014it\u2019s usually known as the New Zealand Superannuation Fund now\u2014to look to take controlling interests in firms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EInterestingly, as was recounted in the House a couple of weeks ago by, I think, Barbara Edmonds, who was telling a story of how Grant Robertson, when he was Minister of Finance, put this bill together and, initially, had checked in with Sir Michael Cullen about it, and Sir Michael did feel that it was around about appropriate for the Cullen fund to move into this sort of position now. So the founder of the fund thought that it was the right sort of move, and I know that across the House that is supported now because we do want that fund to have some good returns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI just wanted to touch on a couple of points which other speakers have raised. One of the earliest speakers perhaps was suggesting that we should have a think about what sort of infrastructure the Cullen fund might invest in. I think we need to be careful, and we need to be careful because we actually don\u2019t want politicians interfering too closely in the investment decisions of the Superannuation Fund. We actually need to leave the managers to use their expertise in that area. There would be a problem with inviting that much political interference, and I think that as politicians, we ought to remain well away from it. It is up to them to work out what are the best uses of the Superannuation Fund money to get the best return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHowever, having said that, I do have some views about the ethical investing, as well. One of the former speakers was a little unsure that ethical investing was a suitable way to go, but, actually, ethical investing is starting to be well developed now in terms of what funds do and don\u2019t invest in. There are some pretty well-established parameters, and I\u2019m sure the Guardians of the Superannuation Fund can continue to do well in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo this is a sensible move. It\u2019s a move that is endorsed across the House. It\u2019s great to see this bill getting through its second reading, and I\u2019m sure that it will progress further through the House and end successfully in due course. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u00226a49aeb955bb4b6388988179434fc91d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a49aeb955bb4b6388988179434fc91d\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and speak in support of this bill. As the member across the House, the Hon Dr Deborah Russell, has already said, it makes sensible and practical sense, and so we certainly agree on that. It\u2019s all really about providing more investment opportunities throughout New Zealand, which, of course, on this side of the House, is what we\u2019re all about in terms of looking at strengthening our economy and getting it back on track. This will be very positive for New Zealand industries and infrastructure and really helps provide further jobs and opportunities. So, overall, it\u2019s a very positive move because the amendments will remove the restriction on the New Zealand Superannuation Fund and allow it to take a controlling stake in entities in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve already heard from members, the New Zealand Superannuation Fund has been very successful. It\u2019s sitting at about $70 billion and is projected to reach $110 billion by the end of the decade. It has a healthy return of 11.9 percent, and we\u2019ve already talked about returns and diversity and making sure that we are diversifying investments to get better returns for New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard about that diversity, and we\u2019ve heard that the bill needs to make sure that we are leaving it to the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation to be careful around those investments in ensuring that diversity, but the bill will also allow for the Guardians to hold a controlling interest in a business and to take a controlling interest in more operating companies. This is positive because it\u2019s removing the control restriction, which will enable the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to access a wider group of viable investment partners and opportunities, particularly here in New Zealand, which is where we want to see more investment and more capital, because that\u2019s what\u2019s going to help grow our economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003ERemoving the control restriction, therefore, provides the Guardians with that added extra flexibility and the ability to invest in more projects and more infrastructure, and this approach is consistent with the Guardians\u2019 mandate, I believe, to invest the fund on a prudent commercial basis and, in doing so, manage the fund in a manner consistent with best practice. That\u2019s all about, again, that diversification of investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EBut this bill will also promote operational efficiencies, and we\u2019re all about efficiency\u2014we want to see more efficiency because for the past six years, we haven\u2019t seen a lot of efficiency\u2014and we will help ensure the New Zealand Superannuation Fund assets are being managed in an optimal way, which is what we want to see, particularly if we\u2019re going to invest in the future for all New Zealanders, as we\u2019ve already talked about, with that ageing population. The New Zealand Superannuation Fund has shown since its inception remarkable growth and maturity, significantly enhancing its size and its capability and its\u00A0operational model, which is a success story, and we agree with that. But there\u2019s obviously always room for improvement, and that is what this amendment bill is going to achieve, by opening up for more investment in New Zealand and opening up more opportunity for capital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThis change is pivotal for attracting institutional investors who have confidence in the Guardians\u2019 due diligence around investment acumen. When we heard, through the select committee, the annual review of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, they did talk about this due diligence and they talked about the success of the investments, but also it amplifies opportunities for domestic investment. I think the key is the domestic investments, because it\u2019s all about strategic infrastructure and deepening that capital opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to take this opportunity to look at a couple of the investments, because we\u2019ve got a few case studies in the annual review here, and they look at some of the industries that the New Zealand Superannuation Fund is investing in in New Zealand. I was particularly interested in the agriculture investments which we\u2019re seeing in the sector in New Zealand, and there are dairy investments in here, there\u2019s horticulture, there\u2019s viticulture and hops\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022821096754f2e4b2ab5310d024d669f5e\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Fruit bowl.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226df4ef14b0614f3ea9d4a0b2f29c54df\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely\u2014as we\u2019ve already said, it is good for Hawke\u2019s Bay and for Tukituki, Hastings, the fruit bowl of New Zealand, because that is where\u00A0there has been some investment. There\u2019s been investment here in our apple orchards, in our intellectual property apple varieties, which fetch a premium in the international markets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThis industry really needs investment at the moment, because this capital helps add value to the produce that we export to our global markets around the world, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re trying to do. It is to always fetch a higher premium for our products on the global stage. The partnerships which they talk about in here that the New Zealand Superannuation Fund has have given our exporters that capital to invest in global growth strategies, and it\u2019s given them the ability to increase per hectare returns, which, again, is very positive and is a long-term investment in land. But it is also to introduce new orchard management techniques and other new agriculture innovation, which all takes capital and investment. This is what creates jobs and opportunities in our regions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003ESo this type of investment is really important and particularly at this time in our primary industries and within our agriculture sector where they\u2019ve been doing it very, very tough for these past six years. It\u2019s been very challenging, and I\u2019m hearing all the time that there\u2019s a lot of red tape and regulation, and we have to remove that to get these businesses moving. But also they want to see more access to capital, and that\u2019s what this comes back to, too. If we open up this opportunity, there\u2019s going to be more access to capital in New Zealand, which means that we\u2019ve got a better opportunity to strengthen our economy but also futureproof for the future in terms of New Zealanders and that access to superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EWe all know we have major infrastructure needs in this country, which is another area where we may see some benefits when it comes to financing through the Superannuation Fund, and it\u2019s likely that an entity like the New Zealand Superannuation Fund would in future choose to invest in the controlling entities in these sorts of assets and in many other assets that are targeted at infrastructure in New Zealand. We\u2019ve already talked tonight about the roading, and, obviously, we need better roading and infrastructure in New Zealand because we have an infrastructure deficit. So this certainly opens up more opportunity there for capital in terms of that investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EBut granting the New Zealand Superannuation Fund the ability to hold controlling interests aligns with the practice of many global sovereign wealth funds that have transitioned to managing more capital in-house as they mature. So this aligns internationally, and I think that\u2019s really, really important as well, because we need to be looking globally and looking internationally, because that\u2019s where there is opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EComing back to superannuation: as we all know here in New Zealand, New Zealanders aged 65 and over receive New Zealand superannuation payments, which are paid for by our taxpayers today. But over the next decade, the New Zealand population will age significantly, as we\u2019ve touched on here, and Statistics New Zealand\u2014I just thought it was\u00A0interesting to maybe touch on a few stats, because I think that they are quite mind-boggling when you do think about these stats and what we\u2019re facing into the future. During the 2020s, almost a quarter of a million more New Zealanders will reach 65 and over and will be claiming that super, and so, by the late 2050s, they\u2019re predicting that\u00A0we\u2019re going to see that one in every four New Zealanders will be 65 or older. Now, this means that in the future, New Zealand will have more people of retirement age\u00A0as\u00A0a\u00A0proportion of the population than ever, ever before, and so there will be fewer working-age people to pay tax to fund the greater cost of retirement. These projections have significant implications for the ability of future Governments to fund not just a universal superannuation benefit but other vital areas such as health, welfare, education, and law enforcement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI\u2019m the chair of the New Zealand Population and Development Committee, and our population make-up here in New Zealand is changing because of our country\u2019s fertility rate at the moment. We have record-low birth rates. At the moment, we\u2019ve got 1.56 births for every woman in 2023, so our country\u2019s fertility rate has been a lot lower than the replacement rate of 2.1. I talk about this because it is actually quite relevant to what we\u2019re talking about, because we are seeing an ageing population where we are going to have to think about our healthcare workers and the superannuation that our over-65s will be claiming. Look, in my home region of Hawke\u2019s Bay, 19 percent of our population there is over 65, which is higher than the national average of 17 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003ESo this is certainly an area that we have to think about. Superannuation is key to the stability of this country, and that is why I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228906257dd478431a8e48ebe1e7704847\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228906257dd478431a8e48ebe1e7704847\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, and I\u2019d just say, Ms Wedd, if you\u2019re going to drift off the bill like you did, at least make it interesting and pertinent to the Speaker. So thank you\u2014and here\u2019s a challenge for the next speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa80e53715634a028117a24dee383f1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa80e53715634a028117a24dee383f1e\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to take a short call on this bill\u2014this important bill\u2014the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill, which was shepherded through by the Hon Grant Robertson and picked up by the Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, and I commend them both on the excellent work on what has become a cross-partisan thing that all New Zealanders can be proud of: a superannuation scheme that invests directly in regional development projects. It is a driver of economic growth in our regions and in our cities, and it\u2019s something which will provide for future generations in a way which is sustainable and that builds on those things that we hold dear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBut this breakout of \u201CKumbaya\u201D in the House is a little bit ironic. On this side of the House, on these Labour benches, we believe in public ownership of strategic assets. We believe that the Government has a role in owning things like a superannuation scheme which goes out there and drives economic regional development by investing in the things we care about\u2014by investing in our strategic industries and in making sure that New Zealanders have access to capital in exactly the ways we have heard from members on the Government benches tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EBut that Government has no economic plan beyond cutting public ownership of the services that we rely on\u2014on the services which they are stripping 6.5 percent and 7.5\u00A0percent of all Government ownership of those services\u2014and that flies directly in the face of all of those speeches that we have heard tonight from that side of the House. We\u2019ve heard that Government ownership and that the public good is what we\u2019re getting out of this bill. Well, this is something which is important here, but it is not something that everyone agrees on, and it is something that we need to think carefully about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s talk about what this bill does. It does allow the superannuation scheme to take\u00A0those investment decisions to the next level, and, as you\u2019ve heard from my colleague the\u00A0Hon Dr Deborah Russell, this represents a shift in gear for what the superannuation scheme can do, because when we think about these controlling interests, what do we mean\u00A0by that? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhen it was set up, it had a very specific mandate to act like an investment fund with no direct investment into companies, because it wasn\u2019t in the business of owning specific companies or specific pieces of infrastructure or having any sort of guardianship over specific projects. But it has had a history in the last decade of investing in big projects which would have otherwise not been able to go ahead without its investments\u2014things like, in the last National Government, large-scale housing developments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EOne of those was the Hobsonville Point development on the old airbase site. Investment from the Superannuation Fund enabled the development of each super block to then be sold on to developers who built houses on it. Without a large institutional investor, that project would not have been able to progress in the way that it did and the\u00A0civil works on those projects would have taken much longer. But the superannuation scheme still had to invest in that project, alongside other smaller commercial investors, because it was restricted in having a controlling interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESo what this bill does is it would allow strategic ownership where State ownership of a project is useful for the public good, and that was something that the National Government believed in at that point. Building up our services that are available for all New Zealanders and increasing people\u2019s access to capital and increasing businesses\u2019 ability to get things done by having an institutional framework where investment was possible in those kinds of large-scale projects actually enabled business to be able to do what it needed to do and it enabled the building of houses in a way which let hundreds, if not thousands, of first-home buyers move into what is now a thriving area of the northwest of Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy point here is that this is a sensible change, but this is also a change which is grounded in Labour values: that the State should take a role in strategic assets, which enables business to thrive, and that the State should take a role in making sure that ordinary New Zealanders have the infrastructure and the services that they rely upon to thrive. The Superannuation Fund is a key part of that, and may we always have this kind of cross-partisan belief in its value to all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u002293749cd2e2ec425caff3f84ee346d176\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293749cd2e2ec425caff3f84ee346d176\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E I stand before you to take this to take this split call to support the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill at its second reading. This bill, in my opinion, is an essential step forward in the evolution of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund because it aims to repeal and replace the current restrictions that limit the fund\u2019s ability to take a controlling interest in entities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EAt its core, when I read this amendment, it seeks to empower the fund by removing these limitations, thereby granting the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation the ability to take a controlling interest in a variety of entities. This change is not merely administrative; it is a transformative shift that aligns our Superannuation Fund with global best practices and that, essentially, positions it to capitalise on significant investment opportunities here, in New Zealand, and also around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EThe landscape of global investment is rapidly evolving. Internationally, sovereign wealth funds are increasingly directly engaged with markets, exerting influence to steer business towards a more sustainable, ethical, and responsible practice. So by allowing the Guardians to take a controlling interest, we are actually aligning ourselves with progressive trends around the world to ensure that our fund is not a passive spectator, but a proactive participant in shaping the future of our investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EMoreover, this amendment bill is about enhancing the economic opportunities for New Zealand. So by expanding the scope of our potential investments, the Guardians will have access to a broader array of partnership opportunities that bring not only financial returns but a strategic benefit for our economy. Whether it\u2019s in technology, renewable energy, rural land, infrastructure, or healthcare, having the ability to take a controlling stake ensures that the fund can secure a meaningful influence in these major key sectors, fostering innovation and growth. So, ultimately, I believe we are providing a better future for all New Zealanders and their superannuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EThis bill also champions, really, the integration of ESG\u2014environmental, social, and governance\u2014criteria in investment decisions, because it enables the Guardians to hold a controlling interest as they equip them with the leverage needed to encourage companies to invest in more sustainable practices. This is an approach that aligns with global standards, and it also resonates very strongly with the values of our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EI support this bill because we are endorsing a vision\u2014a vision of having a more dynamic, influential, and responsible fund that would only bring our fund in line with the best practices in the world. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022237d3c7d26f7407ea120f265987abae9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022237d3c7d26f7407ea120f265987abae9\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a great privilege to stand here and speak about the Cullen fund as somebody who whakapapas politically to that great man Sir Michael Cullen, who was the MP for St Kilda electorate, which became Dunedin South and then in turn became Taieri. So I\u2019m sure he is smiling upon us today, seeing the collaboration across the House, and also perhaps giving his nod of approval to the logical next step in the evolution of the fund, which has matured and proven its track record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to speak on three things, really. One is about the track record but also the fact that we probably do need to make this move to secure the sustainability of the fund, and, thirdly, that we have mitigated the risks that might have presented in a way that I think we can step forward confidently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe fund was set up and the Act came in in 2001. In the South, we are known for our fiscal prudence, and, certainly, Sir Michael was. I think it was very foresighted not only to have the fund but also to have the section 59 caveat to manage the growth of the fund and the risks to ensure that it would reach a state where it could then take that next step, which is where we are today. I\u2019ve also seen, having had the privilege of previously being the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee in the previous term, the excellent stewardship of the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation, which gives me confidence that this is the right way forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EBut we do actually need to do this, as well. People have talked about our ageing population. That is one pressure on the fund. There was also even talk and, in fact, campaigning from National and ACT about wanting to raise the superannuation eligibility age to 67. So by taking this step, we can at least put that conversation to bed for a while, hopefully, because, certainly, out and about in my electorate, where 25\u00A0percent of the population are over the age of 60, that is the last thing that they want to hear. In fact, if we look at M\u0101ori life expectancy, which has an aggregate gap of seven years, that puts that superannuation even further out of reach for some people who will never get to realise it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EIt is also about deepening our capital markets, and I think that the risks around that have been managed. In fact, if we look at capital markets, we can have the investment lens, but can also look geopolitically. The more resilient and self-sustaining we are, the less we have to rely on other global big players in getting pulled in different directions. So there are really good resilience reasons why we would want to bolster this fund. The risks around perhaps the difference between public and private elements of investment have been very tidily cleaned up so that there would be no public reporting requirements into private companies and no public obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ETwo things I would like to speak on because they\u2019ve come up in the debate. One is around ethical investing, and, certainly, it is a growing practice in investing. I do think that having looked at the Superannuation Fund and having also interrogated while sitting on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee some investment elements around investment into New Zealand\u2014and looking at supply chain issues, in particular\u2014it is not always easy to see if ethical investing is occurring and to safeguard against that, and that is why the Labour Party was working on modern slavery legislation. I have seen, though, that the frameworks with guardians of this fund\u2014the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation\u2014are very robust, and when issues come up, they do tend to pick up on them very quickly. So there were good management controls over that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThere has also been a discussion about what people seem to be perceiving as mutually exclusive ideas about high-return investing and social impact investing. While I agree it is not wise to be prescriptive in investing, I do think those things are not necessarily mutually exclusive, and I\u2019d like to tip my hat to the man of the night\u2014the Hon James Shaw, who had his valedictory\u2014because he certainly understands this area. It is a growing area where investment can be made that can have really good capital value for domestic markets, can also achieve social purposes, and can also maximise profit, and I\u00A0think we need to be aspirational, but certainly not to legislate around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo, with those words and tipping my hat again to the late Sir Michael Cullen\u2014that fantastic man who has created this visionary fund\u2014it\u2019s been a pleasure to speak to it. I\u00A0look forward to us taking this leap into a high-growth future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022edc3a09fda6a4f2d912ff1ae4cc2366d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edc3a09fda6a4f2d912ff1ae4cc2366d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Tom Rutherford. I was looking for David MacLeod, actually, but he\u2019s not here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022876675da1b4b4dafb72e724f0f9d2a0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022876675da1b4b4dafb72e724f0f9d2a0c\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Wow, he\u2019s a bit of a silver fox\u2014Mr MacLeod\u2014but I don\u2019t pretend to be him one bit. I do sense the irony in having the\u00A0youngest member of the Government stand and speak on this piece of legislation, but I\u2019ll\u00A0do it with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d78c3233e50845de87e7142c4350c2ea\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, are you talking about me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef5d3e080790430380eeb4f677995d0d\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I\u2019m was talking about me\u2014talking about me. But I\u2019ll do it with good grace and a lot of detail because it\u2019s good to see some bipartisanship across the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022691ad4ed6af345da8a2c877dd27c7df6\u0022\u003ECelia Wade-Brown\u003C/span\u003E: More than two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0a9e1732c924a3e97d875d1adf93d18\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: More than two what? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a8d4d23e54c493bb5faf7d5889c5629\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: Bipartisan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fad5b70895b443a6816ce8314705c30c\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, partisan support across the House. Hey, I learnt something\u2014there we go. It\u2019s good to see that taking place this evening in support of this bill in the legislation previously led by the previous Government. It was picked up by the Minister of Finance and our Government and is being transitioned through. That\u2019s really, really pleasing to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EI thought, actually, before I talk about the purpose of what the bill is aiming to achieve, let\u2019s talk about the background. Let\u2019s talk about why we\u2019re here in the first place, discussing it, and then we\u2019ll get into the purpose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ESection 59 of the Act currently requires the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation to use their best endeavours to avoid having the New Zealand Superannuation Fund take a controlling stake in any entity. The original policy rationale for the control restriction was that the New Zealand Superannuation Fund\u2019s purpose was to get exposure to investments and not to own businesses. If the Government wished to take ownership of businesses, it would have a policy rationale for doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ENow, the New Zealand Superannuation Fund was also still developing its investment practices, and when it was set up and established in 2001 by the Labour Government at that time, direct controlling investments were uncommon within the global practice of investment management by sovereign wealth funds. Amendments in 2015 partially removed the restriction, allowing the Guardians to create and control fund investment vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ENow, that\u2019s the background. That\u2019s the context for why this House is today progressing this bill through the second reading, with the full support of every party, which is very, very pleasing to see. The purpose now is that the bill is repealing and replacing current sections 59 to 59B of the Act, and the amendments will remove the restriction on the New Zealand Superannuation Fund and allow it to take a controlling stake in entities in the future. The Guardians invest Government contributions into the Superannuation Fund, which is a global portfolio of investments that will help pay for the increased cost of universal superannuation payments in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ENow, as the youngest member on the Government benches, I can sense the irony about the decision that we\u2019re making here today when I\u2019m standing to speak, but I can also see why it is so valid that we\u2019re making this decision. If I look at my\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286d91431d10a481891cacb192427f991\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: It will pay for your retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228408307f0a9a4c5eb2368a252c33302a\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It is\u2014it will help pay for my retirement. That\u2019s a bit of a long way off, but, yeah, we\u2019ll see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EIf I look at my personal electorate of the Bay of Plenty\u2014not Hamilton, but the Bay of Plenty electorate\u2014we\u2019ve got a median age of 40.2 at the moment, which is above the national average of 37.4, and 18.5 percent of our population is aged over 65. Often, we were tarnished with the brush of being the town for newlyweds and \u201Cnearly deads\u201D, but I would say that we are changing the landscape and we are filling the gaps in between. It is a wonderful community for us to live in, and this amendment bill will have wider ramifications for our Bay of Plenty community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Catherine Wedd said in her speech earlier, from the electorate she\u2019s representing in Tukituki\u2014the fruit bowl, as she often refers to it\u2014by the late 2050s, over a quarter of New Zealand\u2019s population will be aged over 65, and that is very stark. It\u2019s something we have to consider and we have to prepare for, and know that we\u2019ve got things in place to manage and mitigate it and undertake it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ESo this bill confirms the allowance for the Guardians to hold a controlling interest in a business. The select committee noted that the bill will allow the Guardians to take a controlling interest in more active operating companies. I looked through the report back from the Finance and Expenditure Committee in August of last year on the New\u00A0Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill, and when they went out for submissions, they received seven from a mix of organisations and individuals. Four submitters gave full or qualified support for the bill, while two were opposed, and one offered no opinion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThe recommendations from the select committee back to the House was that they did not recommend any changes to the bill as introduced on the basis of the submissions they received. Nevertheless, some submissions related to key issues that they thought merited further discussion, and I thought about this part around benefits and risks of removing the restriction on controlling interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThe select committee in reporting back to the House has said that they \u201Cunderstand that the main benefit of removing the restriction on controlling interests would be to allow the Guardians to invest directly in a wider range of investment opportunities in New Zealand, where such opportunities are relatively few. It would give the Guardians more flexibility when entering and exiting a holding, providing additional capital to investee entities, or influencing board and shareholder decisions on, for instance, ESG matters (environmental, social, and corporate governance). Removing the restriction would also enable the Guardians to use simpler ownership structures, and take fuller advantage of investment opportunities. On the other hand,\u201D the select committee noted, \u201Cone potential risk of this change is that it might compromise the Guardians\u2019 independence from public or ministerial pressure.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ESo I wanted to dive into that a little bit deeper to see what the select committee said could be some ways to mitigate that. They said that an example of what might occur could be that \u201Callowing the NZSF to take controlling stakes might lead to pressure to bail out distressed New Zealand companies.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThe select committee understood \u201Cthat this risk was considered when the Act was first developed [in 2001], and the following protections were included to mitigate it: Section 58(2) of the Act requires the Guardians to invest the fund on a prudent, commercial basis. The Board of the Guardians is responsible for the Fund\u2019s performance, and for ensuring that the Fund invests in a commercial manner irrespective of ministerial or public pressure.\u201D The other part is \u201CSection 64(1) and (2) of the Act provide that the Minister can give only non-binding directions to the Guardians regarding the Government\u2019s expectations of the Fund\u2019s performance, including as to risk and return. Further, the Guardians\u2019 board is appointed at \u2018arm\u2019s length\u2019 from the Minister, via nominations from a separate nominating committee, with each board member required to have substantial expertise in the management of financial assets.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThis is a way of mitigating the difference and not having undue pressure from Ministers or anyone else on the Guardians and their board. I think it\u2019s really clear that the bill distinguishes between the Guardians as a Crown entity, and the Guardians as a manager and administrator of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EAllowing the Guardians to hold controlling interests will have a limited impact on competition with other market investors because the size and scale of the fund\u2019s direct investments differentiates them from the market, where there are few domestic investors of this scale. The Guardians provide depth to the market for large capital investments. They are truly long-term investors and can withstand short-term fluctuations in valuation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ERemoving the control restriction will enable the Superannuation Fund to access a wider group of viable investment partners and opportunities, particularly within New Zealand. With the Guardians having a reputation of having world-leading environmental, social, and governance (ESG) practices, it will have a strong commitment to using its influence as a shareholder to encourage companies to integrate ESG into their decision making and to report on their ESG risks. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EIt is a pleasing night to gain support for a bill across this House from every political party. The New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill is receiving the support of this House, and I\u2019d like to commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022862127d030f049b5bd92b98a0df91b61\u0022\u003EImmigration (Mass Arrivals) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002232cf8426a3804fef8ee88f4bef6d0798\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00228d3395aa068d4790a50a486c01b871e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d3395aa068d4790a50a486c01b871e1\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Immigration (Mass Arrivals) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c18d1cc93c7a4a2290701e8d55f8ccb7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293c79f5ef9b844bf8b4cd6bc08ee23df\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Immigration (Mass Arrivals) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThis bill addresses legal risk to the safe and effective management of a potential mass arrival. That risk is that the current 96-hour deadline to obtain a group warrant of commitment does not afford the members of a group enough time to receive adequate legal representation. Therefore, a warrant hearing may need to be held without legal representation for those affected, which would breach their fundamental human right to natural justice under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThis bill makes minor and technical changes to our border settings, addressing the risk that a mass arrival could not be processed appropriately. The likelihood of a mass arrival coming to New Zealand does remain low, but none the less it is very real. I am aware that, as has been reported in the media, a number of attempted ventures have been made in the past on the basis of clearly stated intentions to come here. The pressure and scale on resources needed to manage an arrival would be instant and significant, necessitating robust legislation to underpin our preparation. I consider these risks are unacceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ENew Zealand must be prepared to manage an irregular maritime mass arrival and ensure the rights of those are upheld should one occur. Ignoring the risks to our courts and immigration systems, to the national security of our country, and especially the risks\u00A0to the migrants involved, would be irresponsible. This is a practical, pragmatic bill that is intended to enable us to manage a mass arrival, should one occur, in a safe and secure manner that ensures the human rights of the people concerned are protected, and ensures the security of New Zealand\u2019s communities are also protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI want to talk briefly about the select committee process. Though I was not on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee in the last Parliament, I am aware of a number of misunderstandings leading to misgivings about the bill that surfaced during the select committee stage. The most significant misunderstanding that I want to be really clear about is that detention is not synonymous with imprisonment. There appears to be an assumption that the provision set out in the bill and in fact the provision set out in the Act as it currently stands would amount to arbitrary and automatic detention in prison. That is not true. Neither in the current Act nor in this bill. There is no\u2014and has never been\u2014any expectation that a mass arrival group would be held in a prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EOfficials informed me that they have identified a range of locations that might be used to hold members of a mass arrival group should one arrive, the primary one being the M\u0101ngere Refugee Resettlement Centre, but also including managed isolation and quarantine - style facilities and other accommodation providers. It would simply not be appropriate or reasonable to grant visas and waive members of a mass arrival group off into the community. That would lead to negative outcomes for both members of a mass arrival group and New Zealanders in the community. Our response is predicated on safety and efficiently accommodating them and ensuring that they can receive the dedicated wraparound support that they will no doubt need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EI also want to note that the Ministry of Justice and its New Zealand Bill of Rights Act analysis of the bill confirmed that the provisions in the bill do not amount to arbitrary detention and do not unreasonably infringe on migrants\u2019 human rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003ESome submitters said that the solution was simply to resource Immigration New Zealand (INZ) and the courts and refugee lawyers better to manage the risks to natural justice. This is incorrect and fundamentally misunderstands the risk. Primarily, it would not address the fact that 96 hours is insufficient time for the migrants concerned to locate legal representatives, brief them, have them be represented before a relevant judge, and to have the judge take those representations into account when determining the group warrant of commitment application. We are aware of only a limited number of lawyers in the country qualified or experienced enough to adequately represent a mass arrival group, and that is entirely out of our control. No matter how much additional funding we give INZ for such a situation, it would not impact the number of lawyers available. Importantly, also, it would be inappropriate to have that level of resource sitting around just in case there was a mass arrival of possibly hundreds of people. New Zealand just does not operate on the scale necessary for such resourcing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EApart from anything else, we\u2019re talking about very vulnerable people who will have undertaken a treacherous journey and who, on arrival, are likely to be exhausted at best and may be in need of urgent medical and mental health attention. They are unlikely to be in the best condition, and to be engaging with legal representatives, or, in fact, finding out where the accommodation services are in the community, is not a situation we want to be in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EThe bill\u2019s provisions will enable the responsible judge to be confident that members of a group have been given the time to have their voices heard by legal counsel, so the judge can properly consider the migrants\u2019 situations and views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EOther submitters suggested that we were acting contrary to our international obligations. I also want to wholeheartedly contest this situation. The refugee convention, international organisations, and the 2012 United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) guidelines on detention make it clear that there must always be a process for receiving asylum seekers safely and securely. That\u2019s precisely what this bill does. However, I want to assure submitters that I have heard you. Your feedback has been valuable, and I am currently considering advice on whether any further changes could be made to make more explicit the safeguards that already exist in our legal frameworks and Immigration New Zealand procedures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003EBefore I finish, I want to just briefly touch on our standing internationally. New Zealand has always strongly supported an international rules-based system, with the UN at its heart. This is reflected in our enduring commitment to upholding human rights, especially the rights of our most vulnerable who arrive in New Zealand. This is also reflected in our strong support for UN institutions, such as the Security Council, the Human Rights Council, and the Office of the High Commissioner for Refugees. In particular, when managing asylum seekers, we always strive to act in a manner consistent with international best practice and uphold the rules set up by the UNHCR, such as those set out in the 2012 guidelines on detention. This legislation, with the changes that I\u2019ve proposed, will bring us even more in line with these guidelines and put us ahead of many countries in the world, with respect to upholding the human rights of those involved. Accordingly, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6ad6c2dc5d048e29b219e5ea9761a50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6ad6c2dc5d048e29b219e5ea9761a50\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022de4eb9e93ec94488a82b13aa9c93a791\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de4eb9e93ec94488a82b13aa9c93a791\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Labour is committed to an immigration system that treats asylum seekers with dignity and that respects our obligations under international law. We accept that there needs to be a system for mass arrivals in New\u00A0Zealand. As the Minister outlined, while this is not something that it likely to occur with any regularity, it is a known risk. The bill as it is in front of the House at the moment fixes some of the unworkable aspects of the law that was previously passed under the National Government in 2013, and it is designed to ensure that there is a workable system in place to process a group of asylum seekers and ensure their rights are respected in the event of a mass arrival. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EWe acknowledge, as the Minister has, the refugee and human rights communities, who are opposed to this bill and who did make strong submissions at the select committee process. We want to state here in the House that we take the submissions that they made and the concerns that they raised extremely seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EThere are a few changes that the Minister has alluded to and ones we would expect to see in the mass arrivals bill to support it further. We had an unusual situation where the select committee did not agree to support the bill moving forward under the last Parliament. So although we understand these changes are coming, they\u2019re not currently reflected in the way they usually would be in the bill at this stage. So the changes that we would expect would be to establish that prior to a warrant of commitment being issued and a member of the mass arrival group being detained\u2014that that would have to be approved by the chief executive under section 330 of the Act. But that would not be able to be in a prison or a police station\u2014addressing some of the major concerns that were raised by submitters about this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EAdditionally, if there was to be a detention, there are some safeguards that we think should be included within this bill. That includes establishing clearly why the detention was necessary, that it would be for the shortest amount of time possible and the least restrictive necessary to achieve the outcomes, how the proposed location of the detention meets the Government\u2019s obligations under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act\u2014and I won\u2019t go through all of these things because I think they were well covered by the Minister. But it includes the safeguards that she alluded to, and they were ones that we would expect to see in a bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EWe would also be open to further improvements of this bill at committee stage, if they could be agreed, because we do take seriously the need to minimise the detention and to make sure that any detention is subject to judicial oversight. It was Labour in Government that commissioned the Victoria Casey KC review of the detention of asylum seekers in prison in response to Amnesty International\u2019s advocacy, and we accepted all of her recommendations. We will also be actively working, and I know that our spokesperson on immigration, Phil Twyford, is keen to work closely with the Minister to consider the\u00A0further safeguards that may be needed to protect\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216e8ab4bdd104e02a543ed675aa62bff\u0022\u003EHon Erica Stanford\u003C/span\u003E: I spoke to him tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223abd1f8e7c264737ab9433c24b34a8a2\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yeah, fantastic\u2014asylum seekers. Some people may question the need for a mass arrivals arrangement, and while it may be a low-probability scenario, it is not zero probability. Because of that, we do accept that this legislation is needed in some form, but, as I said, we are very concerned to make sure that the very serious human rights concerns that were brought up by very respected groups in New Zealand are taken seriously and mitigated, and that the human rights of asylum seekers are protected as much as they possibly can be while at the same time we\u2019re dealing with a quite unprecedented situation that may occur in New Zealand. So we will be supporting this bill at this reading. However, our support through its further stages through the House is dependent on the bill meeting the very high standards that, hopefully\u2014and I understand that we do\u2014we share across the House in relation to making sure that the human rights of those asylum seekers are upheld. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a matter we take extremely seriously. We will be considering the amendments to the bill at committee stage very seriously and, as I said, working really hard to make sure that, hopefully, we can come to a situation where the bill is not seen in the light\u00A0that it has been seen by many of these very important human rights organisations that we have heard from in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00228366ad69636a42efad2613932890d76b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228366ad69636a42efad2613932890d76b\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green): \u003C/span\u003ELet\u2019s make it really clear: this is the Labour Party and the National Party colluding to push forward an anti - asylum seeker bill that is grounded on very little evidence that there\u2019s actually mass arrivals about to come to this country, and while I am pleased to see the Labour Party somehow having a backbone and some morals around the need to change this bill, the previous Labour Ministers that enabled this bill to be pushed forward did not show any of these concerns when they introduced it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo, by nature, I just want to say to the Labour Party that they have enabled this bill to be put forward to the House, and the Minister should not be so dismissive of the fact that Amnesty International, Asylum Seekers Support Trust, Community Law, Council for Civil Liberties, the Red Cross, World Vision, Refugee Family Reunification Trust, the Refugee Council of New Zealand, the Office of the Human Rights Proceedings, the Human Rights Commission, and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees all either fully oppose this bill or could not support the bill in its current state, showing that there was very little, inadequate consultation with organisations that directly work with asylum seekers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t have confidence that the Minister\u2014and the Minister did not express whether she had, herself, sought feedback from affected communities and people with lived experiences who could actually speak to experiences of detention, who could speak to issues around human rights. So we\u2019re really concerned that this bill is continuing to go forward without a pause and a review guided by affected communities and by experts. We note that when the bill was initially introduced, there was little to no consultation with affected communities, and, in fact, many of the submitters noted how this bill caught them by surprise and that many of them actually were not expecting something of such degree in terms of potentially undermining the human rights of asylum seekers to be put forward in this way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think I want to pick up on a few submitters and I wanted to pick up on Amnesty International\u2019s submission which talked a little bit about the right to liberty and security of the person. What they noted here\u2014because it\u2019s, again, really important to be really clear about what this bill ultimately is intended to do, which is to broaden the powers to detain asylum seekers. They noted concerns around how this \u201Cexpands the detention regime for people seeking asylum.\u201D and they also noted, importantly, that \u201CInternational and domestic law establishes that everyone, regardless of nationality, citizenship or migration status, has the right to liberty, including protection from arbitrary arrest and detention and the enjoyment of their personal security.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EMany submitters also noted how the move towards widening the powers of detention without actually better resourcing, for example, the judicial system; to resource the community organisations who actually support asylum seekers is, basically, the wrong way around. I mean, one should be looking at resourcing the judicial system first, looking at resourcing those community organisations first, before even thinking about detaining asylum seekers, many of whom are escaping some of the most harrowing situations that we will never experience here in Aotearoa, should we be lucky; we have not had the experience of having to go through genocide, through wars in Aotearoa. So I think it\u2019s really important to put into context the kinds of realities that people\u2014who could, in theory, arrive by boat to Aotearoa\u2014would have had to experience, and they deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EThe submitters also noted\u2014and from my own engagement with constituents\u2014that many of the community organisations and, you know, the M\u0101ngere Refugee Resettlement Centre, are already quite stretched in terms of resources and capacity. So to just assume that without additional resourcing to our resettlement centres, that they can just be thrown there or to hotels\u2014actually at a time where hotels barely show capacity to host people seeking emergency housing\u2014just feels deeply unrealistic. Additionally, many submitters noted\u2014and you know, we look forward to any potential amendments from the Minister that may address this\u2014that it\u2019s not enough to take the Minister at her word around the kinds of facilities that will be used to detain people because there\u2019s nothing in this bill that actually adequately clarifies the kinds of facilities that would be used. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003ESo while I take the Minister\u2019s intent that her goal is to use the M\u0101ngere Refugee Resettlement Centre or hotels, actually the bill, in and of itself, doesn\u2019t create enough clear protections to ensure that those facilities are adequate and that they\u2019re actually used responsibly when they are in place. So that is something that\u2019s important to note because, effectively, the bill as it is would still weaken and create another class of asylum seekers who, technically, have reduced rights. And I think that\u2019s also really important to note here, about how we are, effectively, creating a whole other class of asylum seekers who would be treated yet differently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI also wanted to note the concerns from submitters around the rights of children. Some submitters noted that, actually, children should not be detained for the actions of their parents. No matter whether you sugar-coat the detention centre as a hotel or as the M\u0101ngere Refugee Resettlement Centre, this bill would enable the detention of children who are part of wh\u0101nau seeking asylum, and that is deeply, deeply concerning. And we don\u2019t think there\u2019s enough safeguards in this bill to adequately protect children either. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EIf we look at some of the reporting that at least we know is available, I would really welcome the Minister to elucidate to Parliament on what these other risks are that she\u2019s aware of that exist, because what\u2019s in the public domain is people who have expressed, when asked, intent that they would like, in theory, to reach this country. But, actually, I think if you ask many asylum seekers if they\u2019d like to, in theory, come to Aotearoa, I think many of them would say yes, because they know that it is a country that is not experiencing a genocide at this point, or war, and that it is seen internationally as a relatively safe country\u00A0compared to the types of nations that asylum seekers would be coming from. So, yes, of course if you were to ask someone, they would say \u201CYes\u201D, but we can\u2019t use those\u00A0reports as justification for this bill. So the Minister needs to be more upfront and specific around the types of threats that are present to justify this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAnd I note that the National Party flip-flopped on this bill. In fact, when they were in\u00A0Opposition, they had concerns around this bill, and now they seem to be fully on board with it. But they haven\u2019t actually given us adequate justification for their change of\u00A0position. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think, ultimately, what this bill will do is worsen the rights of asylum seekers. It will create yet another category. It will leave children completely at risk of being detained, which is not in line with the international reputation that we would want. Additionally, without commitment to adequately resourcing the judicial system and our community centres, none of the problems that the Minister claimed that she wanted to solve will actually be addressed. So that\u2019s another concern. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI think the Greens will be calling for this bill to be paused completely to address other more important issues that actually make life harder for asylum seekers, to focus on Victoria Casey\u2019s report recommendations and I think, at the end of the day, take the lead from the experts. I don\u2019t think the Minister\u2019s an expert on asylum seeker issues. Most of us are probably not in this House, but there are plenty of people and organisations who work directly with asylum seekers who could guide us on what could be a human rights - compliant legislation, a rights-enhancing legislation that would support asylum seekers, that would support human rights, and this bill does absolutely nothing towards that. All that it does is actually create yet another category of asylum seekers, and, therefore, we think that this is a rights-diminishing bill rather than a rights-enhancing bill, as it has been for trade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EUltimately, we can\u2019t just throw statements such as \u201CWe want to treat asylum seekers with dignity or respect.\u201D, while, at the same time, introducing bills that diminish those very same rights that we like to think of as upholding the dignity of asylum seekers. So the Green Party won\u2019t be supporting this bill. We\u2019ll be looking forward to the committee of the whole House debate to see what kind of amendments the Minister is introducing, and we call on the Labour Party to actually also take heed of the experts who are calling for this bill to be paused and to be stopped, and to withdraw their support from the bill so that they can at least come to the right side of history, rather than continue to enable a bill that will diminish the rights of asylum seekers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u00224116b2ba736b46808da892877bd10362\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224116b2ba736b46808da892877bd10362\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry, Mr Speaker, I see there\u2019s no microphone here. So thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3696c2070d447dca681884eb2948d11\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I can hear you well now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8234818247c4026a9fca6cf45472713\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Thank you. I\u2019m taking this call on behalf of ACT to support this bill in its second reading. This is the Immigration (Mass Arrivals) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI note that this bill went through its first reading in the last term and then it was reported back as well in the last term\u2014the term that I skipped. The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee did the job on this bill. They did what they were supposed to do\u2014they heard from submitters\u2014and I note that there were 322 submissions on this bill. In my view, 322 submissions means that there was a significant interest in this legislation\u2014and 22\u00A0submitters appeared online and spoke to their submission. So I want to acknowledge all those submitters and thank them for their contributions. I also want to thank the previous Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EAs we have heard, this is actually a very small and technical amendment, what this bill does\u2014it is to the Immigration Act 2009. As we have heard before, this is 96 hours\u2019 provision which is there for the judges to make a decision on warrants of commitment that, in this bill, is to be changed to\u2014because 96 hours is four days, that is to be changed to seven days. And if it was not reasonably practicable for the District Court to consider\u00A0an\u00A0application for a mass arrival warrant of commitment within seven days, it says the detention could be extended by a judge to 28 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ENow, I use this term \u201Cdetention\u201D as we have heard from the Minister of Immigration that there were some concerns in the select committee about this term. It has been made clear that \u201Cdetention\u201D doesn\u2019t mean putting people in prison. I fully understand what submitters said, because what was really interesting to see in the select committee process\u2014as I read in the report\u2014is that most of the submitters actually opposed this legislation. The reason for that was that humanitarian angle: that was about how women, children, disabled people will be treated, because the impression was that they will be\u00A0locked up in some kind of prison. That has been made very, very clear that the \u201Cdetention\u201D word in here doesn\u2019t mean they will be in some kind of prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s also important that we take note that, yes, geographically we are far from other countries. The risk is lower\u2014or negligible, we can say\u2014because in the report I note it said that \u201Csince 2015, 85 asylum seekers were detained in New Zealand [detention] facilities.\u201D, and that \u201Cno asylum seekers have been detained in custody since early 2020.\u201D The report was done in mid-2023, and I assume that this is still true and we haven\u2019t had any asylum seekers since early 2020 detained in custody. Looking at that, the risk definitely is quite low for us, but this is about futureproofing and we are talking about people\u2014those who might randomly arrive here, and this is random maritime arrivals that we are talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EOn the other hand, I would like to address a few points that the Green member Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March raised in his speech. He talked about respect and dignity. Of course, respect and dignity is important for these people\u2014those who arrive here\u2014and that is why we believe that there needs to be sufficient time allowed to them to have legal representation. This is about natural justice that we want to have in our provisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EBut what I don\u2019t agree with is the member says that this is like creating \u201Canother class\u201D. I don\u2019t think it is about another class. Definitely, they are a different group of asylum seekers because we do get refugees through our United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees system and those refugees are already qualified as refugees\u2014so we accept them as refugees. But these people, when they arrive here, then we have to go through the process to see if they are real refugees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EWe cannot just continue to accept everybody who arrives at our borders through this kind of mechanism\u2014accept them as refugees and start giving them citizenship\u2014because that way, we will be sending a very wrong signal out there to people, and people will start taking risks\u2014risking their life\u2014to arrive here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EWe also know\u2014this is a fact\u2014that when people get on to these boats, they don\u2019t come here for free. There is somebody who is charging a big amount of money to put these people on a boat because they really want to leave that country and come to a country that they desire to be in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo the ACT Party has decided to support this bill in the second reading, and we really look forward to the committee of the whole House. This is not about creating another category; this is about making sure that we treat asylum seekers as asylum seekers and not treat people differently, and not try to create classes within refugee classes. But also making sure that we are not encouraging people getting on a boat and coming to New Zealand, expecting that, as soon as they arrive here, they will be stamped as refugees and they will get citizenship. So, with that, I would like to say that we are supporting this bill in the second reading. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227fb88e4d0f71485bb3bbc4af26e9de28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fb88e4d0f71485bb3bbc4af26e9de28\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow. Have a good evening, everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240501b19348227f714288931851e0ab818bfd000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.59 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"