"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002282bdbed84bbe40c88859632d65606180\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 7 MAY 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eea72234602a46b7988666c00e5128c3\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 7 MAY 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002295087c698f274ad99ac53fc114b31370\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224dbf106bdcc2414a98e4961b59b60aa6\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00221e15ce687e9d49ba9ab183f2b69c65b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e15ce687e9d49ba9ab183f2b69c65b1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228abf8310401e481290a5c62151552844\u0022\u003EList Member Elected\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8f77d08f4c94af7bd03b6977f611098\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand\u2014Francisco Bagkus Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00227d5a9c9afd784e74bbe6e67f8dbcb5aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d5a9c9afd784e74bbe6e67f8dbcb5aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have received from the Electoral Commission a return declaring Francisco Bagkus Hernandez to be elected a member of Parliament to fill the vacancy created by the resignation of James Shaw from his list seat. I understand that Francisco Hernandez is present and wishes to take the oath of allegiance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002264720e1ab6a5454abe144e0c6ebad549\u0022\u003EMembers Sworn\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002299d22948e368425b8e8d36fedf99ec74\u0022\u003EMembers Sworn\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bdff7efe595e46aaa64a42903af7947e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bdff7efe595e46aaa64a42903af7947e\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Ko ahau, ko Francisco Bagkus Hernandez, e\u00A0oati ana ka noho p\u016Bmau taku pono ki a K\u012Bngi Ti\u0101re te Tuatoru me t\u014Dna k\u0101hui whakaheke, e ai ki te ture. Ko te Atua nei hoki taku pou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E[I, Francisco Bagkus Hernandez, swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles III, His heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EAko, si Francisco Bagkus Hernandez, ay sumusumpa na ako ay magiging tapat at mag-aalay ng tunay na katapatan sa Kanyang Kamahalan, kay King Charles III, sa Kanyang mga tagapagmana at kahalili, alinsunod sa batas. Tulungan nawa ako ng Diyos.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a5d354a2d384e5e9c423c772c6a76b4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Do you declare this oath to be binding upon you? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201c55afe7c384654958ce7ac236d4bdf\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: I do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b58be94a932417eb17435798b376f32\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d65b244170944e8b938c974c595b954\u0022\u003EDerek Alan Angus QSM\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229f910d405739409fb33ad146f48dc89c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f910d405739409fb33ad146f48dc89c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I regret to inform the House of the death on 2 May 2024 of Derek Alan Angus QSM, who represented the electorate of Wallace between 1981 and 1990. During his membership of this House, he was a member of the Electorate Law Committee, the\u00A0Petitions Committee, and the Statutes Revision Committee. I desire on behalf of the House to express our sense of loss and sympathy with the relatives of the late former member. I will now ask members to stand with me to observe a period of silence as a\u00A0mark of respect in his memory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMembers stood as a mark of respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002288b3605bbf544be2a861b0fac4d76990\u0022\u003EPrivilege\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0221e3462b6447ca7fed3179b4db7ba\u0022\u003EConduct of Member\u2014Hon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022285133b1239c4d7fb019f125b54fee1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022285133b1239c4d7fb019f125b54fee1a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As notified to the House last Thursday, I have received letters from the Hon Scott Simpson and Todd Stephenson raising a matter of privilege relating to the Julie Anne Genter conduct towards Matt Doocey during the committee stage of the Appropriation (2022/23 Confirmation and Validation) Bill on 1 May 2024. The conduct complained of could amount to threatening or intimidating a member acting in the discharge of their duty, or threatening a member on account of their conduct in Parliament\u2014see Standing Orders 418(m) and (w), and McGee, section 59.9. The Speaker does not inquire into the veracity of the evidence presented or conduct an inquiry into the allegations. That\u2019s the role of the Privileges Committee. The Speaker\u2019s role in such matters is to determine whether the facts alleged could amount to a breach of privilege or a contempt of the House. Accordingly, I find that a question of privilege does arise, and that question stands referred to the Privileges Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222ced4ea2ad3640be9cb25c547a8d8e87\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e71e2d61f8149038a2069ebdd495b10\u0022\u003EAuditor-General\u2019s Report\u2014Review of University of Waikato\u2019s Procurement Services from Joyce Advisory Services Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229bcd55f6e6e44d8d9f662f2275bc68ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229bcd55f6e6e44d8d9f662f2275bc68ae\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I received an urgent debate letter from the Hon Dr Deborah Russell seeking to debate, under Standing Order 399, the Auditor-General\u2019s review of the University of\u00A0Waikato\u2019s procurement of services from Joyce Advisory Services Ltd. This is a particular case of recent occurrence. However, there is no ministerial responsibility for an Auditor-General\u2019s report. The Auditor-General is an Officer of Parliament responsible to the Speaker\u2014Speakers\u2019 rulings 218/1 and 218/3. Urgent debates have been permitted when Governments have responded to an Officer of Parliament\u2019s report. However, no response was disclosed in the member\u2019s letter. The application is declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228469c59735dd43f28a306ea2c150c579\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228fed443764b84f62ad8d93431bf31044\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00220f3b00bcb246419d9e1228f657e7b9bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f3b00bcb246419d9e1228f657e7b9bc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We come now to petitions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0f1e708142a4507aa663911b005e8bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0f1e708142a4507aa663911b005e8bd\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EPetition of Miriam Woon requesting that the House change the school bus drop-off on State Highway 6 opposite Todd Bush Road \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Shary Bakker requesting that the House take immediate action to roll back the changes made to the purchasing guidelines outlined by Whaikaha Ministry of Disabled People and reinstate the guidelines that were in place immediately prior to 18 March 2024 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Epetition of Shubham Sharma requesting that the House urge the Government to remove the existing ban on pet imports from India.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002253c4c555289c46bea7c11157f6361d0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253c4c555289c46bea7c11157f6361d0e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. I present a report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled General Election 2023: Independent review of counting errors. That paper stands published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00229f9d190e30c245feaf86aa85079177c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f9d190e30c245feaf86aa85079177c1\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Governance and Administration Committee on the Emergency Management Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Petitions Committee on the petition of Kathryn Phillips and the petition of Kiwilaw Probate and Estates Ltd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff4c63c33177446cb54723280a99a338\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff4c63c33177446cb54723280a99a338\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002253249d8d34a94fafb54a2e42cc4562b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253249d8d34a94fafb54a2e42cc4562b7\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of M\u0101ori Land) Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022da3608fa09584b89a3a7f0a2f3297996\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da3608fa09584b89a3a7f0a2f3297996\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That bill is set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd96a37695a84eee81ce08b2afb622fd\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224cbc49d1fc714eb680568da554b5b839\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u2014Application Process\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2e355e95d7a4b94ae8110e3c1253437\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2e355e95d7a4b94ae8110e3c1253437\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Is it your intention to respond to urgent debate applications before question time, moving forward? I just note that that has happened on occasion, but also they have been responded to after questions. I\u2019m just trying to figure out how you\u2019re going to approach this moving forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002271d31be76f3e409db5a11e55c90e812b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271d31be76f3e409db5a11e55c90e812b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A mix of both. Before we go on to oral questions, can I just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022b86eeae47bfc434db1e7e04789b40d52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b86eeae47bfc434db1e7e04789b40d52\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Responding to that point of order, I am unaware of instances previously where Speakers have responded to applications before question time. Usually\u2014or in the past, certainly\u2014they\u2019ve been responded to after question time, and, if they have been accepted, a debate then happens at that point. If it is your intention to respond to applications before question time, obviously, that gives the House a lot more notice to prepare for what is an urgent debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022be755c2fd44948e4b0dc61522d4b04f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be755c2fd44948e4b0dc61522d4b04f6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Or not. The Standing Orders were changed in 2023 to indicate that the Speaker can indicate whether a special debate has been granted at any time. I\u2019m just sort of feeling my way to see how the House feels about that, and since we were doing a lot\u00A0of other procedural things before we started question time, I thought why not get it out of\u00A0the\u00A0way. If that\u2019s not something you\u2019re happy with, then take it up with the Standing Orders Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022629d8973fc7944fa9e799d382b9861eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022629d8973fc7944fa9e799d382b9861eb\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E No, I\u2019m delighted; I just wanted to know what was going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226d1c6ffa9c894f26ad241d7299745c1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d1c6ffa9c894f26ad241d7299745c1f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re delighted? You\u2019re delighted not to get a debate\u2014I\u2019ll bear that in mind next time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a456aa9916e54f17bed4a9bb3f1576b1\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a379ef4dc2fc476d85ff8f02269a8c40\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u2014Supplementary Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226a709fb966414d11acbe8e15885b6a60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a709fb966414d11acbe8e15885b6a60\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just refer members to the particular Standing Order\u2014which I don\u2019t have in front of me; I did, but I haven\u2019t got it with me at the moment\u2014that makes it clear that it\u2019s the Speaker\u2019s discretion to grant supplementary questions and that, while we have a sort of roster, that roster falls within the discretion of the Speaker. I\u2019m just told that it\u2019s Standing Order 397. I just offer that because of the nature of some of the questions that I\u2019ve spoken of before that are on the sheet today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002245d7119b49134198bf2546c93e7240d9\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3fd289369cc4d409d836e7ce29cc690\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002219615a2c22a349569c170a1e006b51fc\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u00221ea6ecb44ea7403b9ea79475e93f1d08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ea6ecb44ea7403b9ea79475e93f1d08\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister for the Environment: What announcements has he made recently regarding reducing the regulatory burden on primary industries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022 data-id=\u0022769390379c214ca89012b4564a56a054\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022769390379c214ca89012b4564a56a054\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Associate Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E [Associate Minister Hoggard wearing an eye patch] Ahoy, Mr Speaker. [Interruption] Thank you, Mr Speaker. With my two-eyed colleagues, the Minister of Agriculture and the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, I announce that the Government will introduce legislation to remove the low-slope map from stock exclusion regulations, and repeal winter grazing regulations. These targeted changes are part of an important part of the coalition\u2019s commitment to allow farmers to get back to farming without unnecessary red tape. We\u2019re working hard on better ways for farmers to manage environmental impacts through freshwater farm plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022296685d6c27c4ca799fc5b7ef9e7065d\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: How will these proposed changes help farmers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022195656ed322241c2802a828fc7601121\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: For stock exclusion, the existing rules have a map that identifies low-slope land where beef cattle and deer will have to be fenced off from water bodies. This low-slope map has proven problematic, creates a huge expense for some farmers with minimal practical or environmental benefits. This is why we are removing it. We\u2019re also proposing to remove the conditions for winter grazing and regulation, while still requiring practical steps to be taken to minimise effects on fresh water. There has already been significant improvement in winter grazing and practice supported by sector groups and local councils. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9ae4fc6ab6646009cb5e8b5c53c07a6\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Minister working on to let farmers get back to farming productively and sustainably?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2f89dbf34bd492ea1c571437763860c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: As a priority, we\u2019re working on improvements to freshwater farm plans to make them less costly and complex for farmers. We know farm plans are a good idea\u2014they allow farmers to find the right solutions for their farm and their catchment\u2014but they don\u2019t need to be as onerous as the system that was introduced by the previous Government. That\u2019s why we will shift to an approach that matches risk with cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a740bca9a1a41798c482214bb0056cd\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: How does this align with the proposed changes to stock exclusion and winter grazing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234963b923aa546a48835aa699b2d37be\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: We are working on an enduring and robust farm plan system that councils and communities can rely on, where practical, on-farm solutions can stand as an alternative for a range of local rules and consents. This will help avoid the need for blunt, national regulations. I believe that good quality farm plans that don\u2019t cost the earth can be a practical solution for identifying and managing a range of environmental impacts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b495a5f2ea734602801207b67da47b03\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister read the New Zealand-EU free-trade agreement (FTA) that includes legally binding provisions to \u201Cprovide for a high-level of environmental protection and continue to improve environmental protections\u201D and \u201Cnot to weaken, reduce, waive, or otherwise derogate from environmental laws to encourage trade or investment\u201D; if so, what does he think?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ed5878e2d5a488aa75f71306ee6161a\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have read the New Zealand-EU FTA, and what I would say is that I had a really great presentation last week showing the difference in water quality between New Zealand and the EU, which showed we are miles ahead of many areas in our water quality than the EU.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227bedaf9077224ea091f7a723597f7b89\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b53ee08a53d84445936b2b1d6981eb7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b53ee08a53d84445936b2b1d6981eb7a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022a91719fc63f545ecb6e6dd3c90a84abb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a91719fc63f545ecb6e6dd3c90a84abb\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do, and especially our announcement of a $1.9 billion investment in Corrections in Budget 2024 so that we can keep New Zealanders safe and we can restore law and order. Budget 2024 will invest an 810-bed extension at Waikeria Prison, it\u2019ll deliver 685 new front-line stuff, it will increase pay for staff, and it will extend rehabilitation programmes for prisoners. This comes alongside our wider plan to restore law and order, which is about backing police to go after criminal gangs, getting more officers on the beat, speeding up court processes, restoring three-strikes legislation, establishing youth military academies and a youth serious offender category, and capping sentence reductions. We are going to be restoring law and order, unlike this last Government, and we\u2019re going to get New Zealand back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e37c40477cb4829a626858da748962e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Was he aware before his press conference yesterday that the $1.9 billion he was announcing for Waikeria Prison included both operational and capital spending; if so, why did he say at the press conference that it was all operating expenditure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229db5b00af90e4b3a8a9d0e0ea656a04c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said to you, I\u2019m very proud of the $1.9\u00A0billion investment we announced yesterday. As I said, we had a bit of a mix-up in communication yesterday\u2014we clarified it very quickly and, importantly, we are adding another 810 beds to Waikeria Prison, we are making sure we have almost 700 new corrections front-line staff, they\u2019ll be paid well, and we\u2019re making sure that we can actually get tough on law and order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7c0fd61c4d5446f9a2979794a6810af\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How much of the $1.9 billion announced yesterday is capital expenditure, and how much is operating expenditure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246723da4ffab46c2b1f8c2aeab891eb9\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, in that Budget, there is enough to be able\u00A0to do capital expenditure for expanding the budget for the prison. Importantly, there is\u00A0operating expenditure to make sure that we can pay our staff and hire more corrections\u00A0officers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a21703bca5f40b0ad5f788d5e377ed1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was pretty straightforward: how much of it was capital spend and how much was operating expenditure? The Prime Minister indicated in his answer to the previous question that he did know the difference between the two and he did know what it was\u2014I\u2019m asking him what it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e1af422e07e48e6a56e1b677058b7f9\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just say to that member: he well knows it\u2019s about Budget sensitivity. He\u2019ll find out on 30 May.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d788956a4c7446b68f0f46a2434c78db\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the announcement that he made yesterday Budget sensitive; if so, why has he announced it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaf98313680f43728fc2a6ec17a6de30\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: The other thing I would add to the member is that, as I said yesterday, there is commercial sensitivity about two elements of that budget. One is around Waikeria Prison and the build and construction costs, and the second piece is around the labour negotiations for staff pay increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fcbd1a2b36b4046aeccab131ca0a27b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How is revealing the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc88bb8f9f594d09b5a8c597f43e2f38\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. My former colleague Steve Maharey wrote a very good article the other day, and I suggest that we all read it again because I agree with him. My point is that when you\u2019ve had your first five questions, it goes to the other side well before that. That was the old rule; it should be the rule now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222266d01a725348e6950e5dfc4af0ce53\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, everything moves on\u2014as you know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a1a3078db954ebcb64c15e7be18c8e5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: What is commercially sensitive about releasing the breakdown of capital and operating expenditure from yesterday\u2019s announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022123016cfdd4b42c0a1505f0099d1ea6c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I said to the member is what is commercially sensitive is the build and the extension of Waikeria Prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deb1aa1fee284b22a1dc7164f39f7845\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e13b673c558b401ab7f9a92d1bbee362\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222963f44cd0704f3ca5d96d5a19686a3e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Prime Minister as to whether the new 800\u00A0extra prison beds announced yesterday means that the old fishing policy of \u201Ccatch and release\u201D is over?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b895e31f81974789908d57b0d35db29c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, absolutely. What is over is actually a Government that has been soft on crime. We have a Government that is going to make sure we restore law and order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf391f05ae844c7b98350819b4da8299\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Several things, Mr Speaker, but the first is the point of order that Winston Peters raised before was completely out of order\u2014I\u2019m surprised that you didn\u2019t chastise him for that. But the second is that that question is also completely out of order\u2014[Interruption] The question that he\u2019s asked is also completely out of order. It certainly wouldn\u2019t be able to be authenticated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e12b962bbe8a45c280eb56334bc0b515\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m surprised that you are surprised, and surprised further that you\u00A0thought in even raising the surprise that you have was a point of order. But in the end, we do try to keep things flowing as much as we possibly can and I don\u2019t want to do anything that disrupts from the members\u2019 intense questioning of the Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282845eb483f1465285746e2e2096b0f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: What will the annual operating cost of housing 810 additional prisoners be, and was that cost included in the $1.9 billion that he announced yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022934823ddc96a4193966262bf33fe15d2\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I just think it\u2019s quite outrageous this member is talking about law and order. Remember what happened in the last Government: 51 percent growth in gangs, 33 percent growth in violent crime, quadrupling of ram raids, doubling of retail crime. You had six years to fix it\u2014you didn\u2019t do a thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295d5baf1dbc94fcab0e3915ecccb2a4b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder whether you\u2019ll allow me to repeat the question, seeing as I think the Prime Minister might have missed what the question actually was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c8f73227f54da8854be022a94c597e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, one of the interesting things I note is that when the person answering the question answers, it\u2019s quite audible on the coverage that goes out. But it was not audible when the Prime Minister was answering because of the noise that was coming largely from the member\u2019s colleagues. So, by all means, ask it again and we\u2019ll hear the answer in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270864a5c531345cd8797ef6ab413c4ab\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: What will the additional annual operating cost of housing 810\u00A0additional prisoners be, and was that cost included in the $1.9 billion that he announced yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299bb8aff4f7a4748885c7f6bf4e86aea\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and what I\u2019d say to you is we have a package to support Corrections to make sure that we restore law and order in this country. We are not going to tolerate rising crime like we saw under your previous administration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232066bf5ac8843dcb8e9d3233d60eb62\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with National Party leader Christopher Luxon, who during the 2023 election said that New Zealanders who take MDMA are not criminals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e56aa0aac2c5499895d9233e46144486\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, what I\u2019d say to you: we are focused on making sure we restore law and order in this country. We have a series of policies to do that. We are making sure that we are going to get tough on law and order, we\u2019ve got three-strikes legislation coming back, we\u2019ve got gang law going through this House, we\u2019re making sure that we\u2019re going after serious young offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b033b94011874ef49e212684d42b323f\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That didn\u2019t even come close to addressing the question, which is about whether there should be criminalisation applied to New Zealanders who are consuming illicit substances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2eeac9b3f1846aabd5e82c217665860\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. With respect, that was not the question. The question was: did he agree with a statement made by a person who was not a Minister at the time\u2014and\u00A0therefore it almost didn\u2019t stand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2aa8d7072ca4836ae6f4c096080ae97\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider people who answer 111 calls to be front-line staff?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228729e758037e480190550845d1cd4080\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, it\u2019s about making sure that we can deliver for New Zealanders and improve crime outcomes. We want to see lower levels of crime in this country. We\u2019re making sure that all of our agencies are focused on 20,000 less violent criminals in this country; we want to see a 15 percent reduction in serious young offending. We\u2019re focused on the outcomes: we\u2019ll get organised to make sure we deliver those outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fe180430a304358af9373aa0eddc735\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Government have made a distinction between front-line staff and back-office staff, and have said they won\u2019t be cutting any front-line staff. The question that I asked him is pretty straightforward: whether he regards 111 call centre operators as front-line staff. He didn\u2019t even address or even come anywhere near the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228078461f7b4041a8bf575e5740551de4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think he came very, very, very near the question. But the point is\u2014I just point out that it\u2019s not reasonable to use the point of order process to try and extract an answer that is suitable or acceptable to the person asking the question. But in this case, I will ask the Prime Minister to make another attempt at that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022374564aad21a47699613a7231a5cbe32\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I expect there will be sufficient resources to man a 111 line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c00ce0f1e7d494db4c6e79463dc90b5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider the people who man the 111 line to be front-line staff?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022411f04308c0b4e01ba3a20881dc66b53\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, that\u2019ll be a decision ultimately operationally for the CEOs to make. But what I make sure is that we\u2019ll have front-line services protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022063d86267c8446ad8c9f04b92fa444e7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1848eac6fe34c57a9b6105640ebe1d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1848eac6fe34c57a9b6105640ebe1d4\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Has she seen any recent reports on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00229890987be50946aea4148b77617fa7b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229890987be50946aea4148b77617fa7b5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. Every two years, the OECD reports on the economic situation and policies of each member country. The latest report on New Zealand was released yesterday. As well as the usual commentary on economic and fiscal policy, the report looks at three structural issues: competition policy, climate change, and improving educational performance in schools. I would encourage members to read the report. It is particularly good in describing what has happened in the economy over recent years, and it brings cross-country expertise to important policy areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022661da138b69b4244ab4b8a3a04ed524a\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What does the OECD say about New Zealand\u2019s fiscal situation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6491886214f4557825356d51e1c4442\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The OECD report talks a lot about the current fiscal position and how this has come about. It says\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CThe pandemic and spending overruns led to a permanent increase in the government spending to GDP ratio, resulting in a substantial deterioration of New Zealand\u2019s fiscal position.\u201D It says that public debt is rising, Government spending has been higher than planned, and that the discretionary increase in spending in the 2023 Budget \u201Cworked against monetary policy efforts to reduce inflation.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f98cbb129c54a89bc2e488f88c2b5a6\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Does the OECD describe how those overruns happened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022661f977147204d389f3e1a6cee71c43c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The OECD report says that expenditure slippage, to use the OECD term, arose in two main ways: first, from 2021 onwards the Government set relatively high operating allowances in advance of its Budgets, and, second, when it came to the Budget itself, the actual amount of spending was higher still. This is borne out by the relevant Budget documents. For example, the operating allowance for Budget 2023 was originally set at $2.6 billion, then was successively raised to $2.7 billion, $4\u00A0billion, and, finally, $4.5 billion. The actual new spending in Budget 2023 was $4.8\u00A0billion. That is how spending overruns happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f1e8f6de17b44a9bc7a77559ce36a16\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What is the OECD\u2019s advice on addressing these fiscal issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b34be31621e0426f88f8319889a2364a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The OECD says\u2014and I quote again\u2014\u201CIt is important that the Government continues to steadily reduce the fiscal deficit as planned, to limit the rise in public debt and thereby increase the fiscal buffer available for the next negative shock.\u201D [Interruption] Members are clearly very interested in this, so they should listen up: \u201COn the revenue side, any tax cuts should be fully funded by offsetting revenue or expenditure measures.\u201D We\u2019ve not shared any details of the Budget with the OECD, but it is safe to say that after 30 May, they will find that the Budget is entirely consistent with this advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d35984dd763450594ba8ad06a7311c7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00225832723059e64294a8c14104a91fe0a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225832723059e64294a8c14104a91fe0a9\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u002218cc5e94e0464b149254df2b007b48e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218cc5e94e0464b149254df2b007b48e8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and especially last week\u2019s announcement that beginning in term 1, 2025, all State schools will be teaching reading using the proven structured literacy approach. Currently, only 56 percent of our year 8 students are at the expected level for reading and writing, and that is unacceptable\u2014all part of our plan to improve educational outcomes so young Kiwis gain the skills that they need to succeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262867852f9e14e1c9b9e9c6e64ddeab0\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the New Zealand Law Society that his Government\u2019s fast-track bill \u201CCreates a potential for decision making that is not objective or independent \u2026 and \u2026 a risk that the Joint Ministers will be \u2026 subjected to lobbying or other attempts to influence their decision making.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022114abd125ade4026960c748821a27710\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Look, as you well know, the Minister for Infrastructure has said this\u2014it\u2019s through a select committee process, open for any sensible ideas to improve the legislation, but, again, we are going to build things in this\u00A0country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022583f23a7f49746e2aab5df213abb34a2\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with submitters such as the New Zealand Planning Institute, which said the current fast-track legislation \u201Crisks overloading the system and slowing it down, contrary to the intent of creating a fast process.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbd9da35f52f45f7a940dfbe4b64ec3c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: No, the complete opposite is going to happen. We are going to speed up the building of infrastructure in this country, and I seriously hope that I get the support of the Greens for this legislation, because if you want serious delivery on our climate change goals, we need to build renewable energy projects much faster. Faster consenting\u2014the better that is for everybody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249b41c20a4684de3b6790dae4bb8aeeb\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that by failing to put a list of projects approved for fast tracking at select committee, his Government is not being transparent or democratic domestically, let alone upholding the commitments and international agreements to promote transparency in Government decision-making?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022436e70538bd74153b795d99ffe480c53\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s a very long question from that member, but what I would say is that the legislation is before a select committee, and, importantly, as you\u2019ve heard from the Minister, he\u2019s very comfortable with taking on feedback from that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eb5dc51d1414449b006c9fdf861d72c\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that seven out of eight regional councils who submitted on the bill oppose it in its current form?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222be9fa6b0cb54da2b8a5987271d067a5\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: No; we are going to build things in this country. We have to get things done. It does not need to take eight years to consent an onshore wind farm in this country. It can take one year. We can build it in two and we can get the climate change benefits of it. That\u2019s why I look forward to that member\u2019s support, as the leader of the Green Party, to support this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9d564fcc0b047a4bb6533266b932e99\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister allow public scrutiny of the list of projects intended for fast tracking at select committee, given the multitude of concerns raised about environmental protections, lack of transparency, executive oversight, free-trade agreements, and the 27,000 submissions on the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022141bb4563657443fbd92939b7ec03dde\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this legislation, as I\u2019ve been explaining to the member, is about accelerating towards our climate change goals and commitments. This is enabling us to build more renewable energy. That surely is a good thing. That is what I would expect that member to be supporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222904340d4d8d43499677e48f36dd5e82\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Local Government\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u002205acadf5ea5e443ab6d65cc23636afa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205acadf5ea5e443ab6d65cc23636afa7\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: What recent announcements has he made about a financially sustainable model for water in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022016436a70a434f69a9e93cf99bd1000d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022016436a70a434f69a9e93cf99bd1000d\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E On Sunday, I joined Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown to announce that the Government has delivered on our election promise to provide a financially sustainable water services model for Auckland under our Local Water Done Well plan. Our plan was unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council\u2019s governing body, and Watercare\u2019s more financially sustainable model will ensure water rates for Aucklanders remain affordable, both now and into the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f50695b689a4e2f9c5ce41d6f3c8238\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: What do these changes mean for Auckland ratepayers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5708fce29ff46f9bb759da1e89d2e02\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, good news. Under the Local Water Done Well solution we announced on Sunday, Aucklanders will avoid the 25.8 percent water rate hike previously proposed by Watercare; $1.2 billion was spent over the last six years by the last Government on water reform, which took away local control and was divisive. But in six months, our Government has avoided these significant water rate increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ee689c03d25401d937a59dc4f42107f\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: How does this fit into the Government\u2019s plan to keep water assets in local\u00A0control?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b872b744c63a4631b520d12c00706a07\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, good news. Our Government recognises the importance of local decision-making and local ownership of water infrastructure. As part of our 100-day plan, we scrapped three waters, to restore council ownership and council control of water assets. And in six months, we have delivered our first Local Water Done\u00A0Well deal: a sustainable financial model for Auckland that will keep water assets in local control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232cfd63b8bc944caa98bdcf90c0c06ec\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has he seen on water reform in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229225233fdba94255accf1551d875191a\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ve seen reports that over the last six years, $1.2\u00A0billion was spent on water reform plans that would take away control of water assets from local councils. Some said that our Government\u2019s Local Water Done Well plan would not work, but in just six months we have delivered a financially sustainable water services model for Auckland, and we spent only $300,000 on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223b999f8684b54ee8b2a64062575cc108\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u002281e2677b027e40288e6e5a38394b8827\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281e2677b027e40288e6e5a38394b8827\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does she stand by her statement that \u201Ctax reductions will be funded by reprioritisations, savings, and new revenue measures\u201D, and is she committed to delivering meaningful tax cuts as outlined in the National\u2013ACT and National\u2013New Zealand First coalition agreements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2e362170729492aa43cc4d71b4985bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2e362170729492aa43cc4d71b4985bd\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes and yes. The fact that tax reductions will be funded by reprioritisations, savings, and new revenue measures means that tax relief in the Budget will be fiscally neutral. The Government has decided to reprioritise lower-impact spending to give a modest amount of tax relief to people and families who have been paying more and more of their wages in tax over the last 14 years. Our tax package will be responsible. I look forward to when that member explains to working people why they should be yet again denied the opportunity to keep more of their own hard-earned money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f5f5a5dc88943deaa7688423ab75ce7\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What national assets, if any, will she sell to pay for the tax cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e9c741146a243ba818c92bde98effb3\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: None.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2baf2d755054d8fb41c95ab673a3761\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Can she commit to no changes to the Government contribution to KiwiSaver to pay for her tax cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0f0315feba34e2e9b8846caf8491459\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221abd6f467d1645deae0277dd1e892d41\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is she committed to the changes to the independent earner tax credit that is outlined in the coalition agreements for Budget 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe2c327f97d14d5ca93c1670ca68fc4a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, now we\u2019re getting exciting questions, because the member clearly wants to know the detail of the tax relief that we will be delivering on Budget day. I\u2019m sad to say that, just like everyone else, she will have to wait until 30\u00A0May, and gosh, it\u2019s going to be good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a239befd1d9497caaca4f14a968916e\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Can the average earner expect to be $50 better off, as per the coalition agreements, or $10 to $20 per week better off, as announced by David Seymour last week in the media?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d084171b7084dccbc1086bb73599c7f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Only 22 sleeps to go. I tell this to every worker listening to question time today: you will get precisely zero dollars of tax relief from a Labour-led Government, and from our Government you\u2019ll be getting a lot, lot more than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266e839e11532464aad16ef10b0683d19\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is it responsible fiscal management to continue with her tax cuts when her Budget Policy Statement shows that tax revenue will be down $13.9 billion over the forecast period, and she has confirmed she will be borrowing for everyday costs; if so, which economists support her tax cuts in the current economic climate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022820dd0d5e2f1435ca914bd85bc858a86\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes, and what a mess we have been left. I will just invite the member opposite to consider the counterfactual. So if the counterfactual was to have a $3.5 billion operating allowance and spend it, as was her party\u2019s stated alternative, then our Budget package, including tax relief for working people, requires less borrowing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a16eca6fa43643529860d7f69662ffad\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u0022050f4b0fc6014eb7bab71c06c0a9813e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022050f4b0fc6014eb7bab71c06c0a9813e\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E My question is to the Minister of Education\u2014[Interruption from gallery]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002241717e0c41924ec8a2a7a60c43600b87\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241717e0c41924ec8a2a7a60c43600b87\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait. Grant McCallum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u0022539f11fb302f485eb0bca2b113f563df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022539f11fb302f485eb0bca2b113f563df\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What recent announcements has she made about improving the way New Zealand children learn to read?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00223f6625303a6d4794809270c52693c656\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f6625303a6d4794809270c52693c656\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Last week, I announced that beginning in term 1, 2025 all children in State primary schools will learn to read using structured literacy approaches. Structured literacy gives children the foundational skills they need to master reading, starting with sounds and phonics to decode words, and is fundamentally based on explicit teaching material with a clear sequence. We are putting $67 million from Budget 2024 in to ensure that teachers are supported by this approach and schools have the resources and supports they need to transform how our kids are learning to read, both in English and te reo M\u0101ori. This announcement, together with the cell phone ban and the \u201Chour a day\u201D policy, is just the start of our plan to put achievement back at the heart of our education system so our kids get a world-leading education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dc5ae3ea4564162b4e26f67eb29467c\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she seen about this announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf83d6b9c9cd44d182306f9e49f2b671\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve received strong support\u2014overwhelmingly strong support\u2014from the sector. From a board chairman: \u201CI love your enthusiasm for proper, structured learning and especially for doing something decent and long term to fix the atrocious state of reading and writing.\u201D From a principal: \u201CGreat news. From a secondary perspective, I\u2019m very excited about this change and look forward to seeing the results coming through in a few years to us.\u201D From a junior school team leader: \u201CThank you so much for your strong statement on structured literacy. This would have to be the best news I\u2019ve ever heard in my 20-year-long career to date. Follow the neuroscience, not the theories. I\u2019m so pleased that a Government is finally putting their foot down and standing by what works for all children.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292779a5537734c98adc59f0ec40679ef\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: What evidence does she have to support the need for structured literacy in New Zealand schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022359d43dc8db847e4a86b3581686fdf86\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Just yesterday, the OECD Economic Survey of New Zealand 2024 made recommendations for a clearer curriculum\u2014something I\u2019m pleased to say this Government is already actioning. It also makes the following statement: \u201CTeachers are overly reliant on Reading Recovery that fails to improve learning outcomes for a significant minority of children\u201D, and recommends that the Government \u201CContinue to expand support to alternative interventions \u2026 including structured literacy \u2026\u201D. This is a Government of action. Funding for reading recovery will be repurposed directly into the front line, resourcing schools to provide small-group and one-on-one structured approaches to literacy, so our structured literacy approach will be consistently delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d29fa7cc7b014dabade6c8563a92d5e8\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Why is change urgently needed to transform the way New Zealand children learn to read?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232e62e5232ab45a190da59d1edca4727\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Recent data shows that just 56 percent of year 8 students are at the expected level for reading, and 35 percent for writing. The recent OECD report stated that an important reason for turning around a trend decline in New Zealand school education performance\u2014including in literacy and numeracy, and increasing education outcomes\u2014is that it is key to ensuring the future performance of the economy and the wellbeing of all New Zealanders. I could not agree more. This Government has set an ambitious target to get at least 80 percent of year 8 students to curriculum by 2030. Learning to read will ensure our children can achieve success in education and life. Teaching using structured literacy approaches are a critical part of how we get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022136075aa24254e0ca8a8e83771c6bae3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 8 in the name of Debbie Ngarewa-Packer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dba4062d1836481cab773a240a86eb1b\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Come on! Ask a supp, Jan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c56c8408d12a408ba035f60b1a3da1ce\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it\u2019s coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3930ad1a7d446e99eb615d6b5026519\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3930ad1a7d446e99eb615d6b5026519\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on a minute. Sorry. Just wait a minute. That member needs to remember that we don\u2019t talk while someone else is asking a question\u2014something I\u00A0thought a schoolteacher might know a lot about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230f9f3c07d85463a908ce91c535a382b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u00222415910c4e6546acbe147b494ca3aa4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222415910c4e6546acbe147b494ca3aa4d\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u00222cbca3b459c848feb3f313b5d14d39be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cbca3b459c848feb3f313b5d14d39be\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context they were\u00A0given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac4c66778a0147a281220696c35755ac\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What assurances can he give to iwi like Ng\u0101ti Toa Rangatira, whose stream and harbour have been poisoned by raw sewage waste as a result of unrestrained development, that fast-track legislation will not lead to a repeat of this situation as they\u2019re experiencing in their rohe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222d25f4d697c468ebc363b26559c71a2\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve answered before, the legislation is before a select committee and submissions are being taken. The Minister for Infrastructure is open for any considerations that come through that process, but we are going to get things built in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d49e025e8e064cd28c031ffd50e5f63a\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What qualifies a fast-track project as having significant regional or national benefits, and how are these economic benefits weighted against environmental costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255669abe83a8476dae317c6d6ccc204e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, what I\u2019d say to the member is, as she well knows, the legislation is before a select committee. It is being worked through. We\u2019re opening it up to public submissions, but we are going to make sure that we balance economic considerations, environmental considerations, social considerations. But we are going to get things built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bdba6ca3cb542a5b97a1bfb5b722e67\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What diplomatic pressure will he apply to Israel after their refusal to accept terms of a ceasefire today and their continued attack on the civilians at Rafah?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6cfb544a21a4f76a7ec1338b33a0c80\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, we\u2019ve been very strident in our urging that we do not want Israel moving into Rafah. What we have seen today is something that we do not support. But what I\u2019d say is that we have a moment in time to make sure that Hamas and Israel get round a table and actually put peace in this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ed0576e60f140b0b1df6b4f07918aaa\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Will he support the United Nations\u2019 call for an independent international investigation into the mass graves containing hundreds of bodies at two hospitals in Gaza, which show evidence of the mass execution and torture of Palestinian civilians?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022381ab8a8570942bf99d917a5c663c1ce\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, what we want is a focus in the world for Hamas to release hostages. We want Israel to give unimpeded access for humanitarian assistance, and we want both parties to get round the table so that a peace process can commence, because military action isn\u2019t going to solve anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227046788da90c491f9cf5b5c45197abda\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Did I hear the Prime Minister correctly, saying that he thinks that Israel should be negotiating with Hamas rather than Palestine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f35a646d8a5d4490931237de0cf4acd8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I said was it\u2019s important that both parties get round the table, put themselves into the peace process, and actually resolve this thing diplomatically. That\u2019s the only way it\u2019s going to get resolved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221414\u0022 data-id=\u002233b82d681aec43dca5c311f346ba017c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233b82d681aec43dca5c311f346ba017c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The honourable\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c823e8b621d042f6aa6cfef279f5c49b\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Rawiri Waititi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4a2fafdf5c6466e981bc489b8b3425a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Rawiri Waititi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209beb259e9aa49ef9f2c10f666748202\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: You are definitely not only a Speaker but a prophet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298b63656788f44e19cccddc690792edf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m also forgetful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247ca6e9af3544f5b983445ee31680d1c\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: How will the addition of 110 new prison beds impact M\u0101ori, given that M\u0101ori are 37 percent of the people proceeded against by Police, 45 percent of the people convicted, and 52\u00A0percent of the people in prison?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b03b3c2d746b44ecbe7a9723a8b54e3f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I\u2019d just say to that member is there are 450\u00A0beds in that prison at Waikeria today, there are 600 that will come on-stream next year, and there are a further 810 beds to be added under the announcement from yesterday that will lead to over 1,800 beds at Waikeria Prison. We are determined, in this country, to make sure that we are going to lower crime. It is unacceptable, and I don\u2019t care which ethnicity you\u2019re from; if you want to commit a crime, you will actually do the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb7b4f8671be431a83e607808a0d4429\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: What measures are being taken to ensure that the increased capacity will not lead to overcrowding or compromise the wellbeing of inmates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d0b3edce34443ca2af442647edde24\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, under the previous administration, the only goal on law and order was a reduction in the prison population. We are focused on reducing crime\u2014violent crime, retail crime, ram raids, serious crime. That\u2019s what we\u2019re focused on. And as a result, we will continue to expand prison capacity if we need it, but at this point in time, our focus is on making sure we expand that capacity, add more corrections front-line service officers, and make sure that we actually support and get law and order restored in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274dacb46da76422b80648fba7d12319b\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that, regrettably, M\u0101ori are more often victims of crime and, unlike this line of questioning he\u2019s just been addressing, our coalition Government is focused on the M\u0101ori victims of crime before we worry about the welfare of criminals, and, actually, that goes to people of all ethnic backgrounds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0bee4ad711c4e9a805b29119345fb61\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I couldn\u2019t agree further. The reality is that M\u0101ori are disproportionately victims of crime. That is why we are lowering crime rates in this country. That\u2019s what we are obsessed about. That\u2019s what we\u2019re going to do so that people feel safe, whether they\u2019re M\u0101ori or non-M\u0101ori. That\u2019s important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022419435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec4159291fa44297b296cd7f8dd7d4b5\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Who are the most incarcerated peoples here in Aotearoa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022696e9723a68a4dd6b099df3ea394a72d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101ori are sadly overrepresented in the prison population, but they\u2019re also overrepresented as victims of crime too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022727906984c50477ca7e1c15e9f8f7d64\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it a fact that half of the people who claim to be M\u0101ori in prison are less than half M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad28cae8e8a746eb8c2ca1c784109077\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad28cae8e8a746eb8c2ca1c784109077\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll move on to question No. 9.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aedd7755f9cc41c68b1c76331799a07c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00220f8eeb828bdb45f79b91c586fb7da63a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f8eeb828bdb45f79b91c586fb7da63a\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022f80eacf1275f4a6cab13aa5ef664e45c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f80eacf1275f4a6cab13aa5ef664e45c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227ce18ba25404429a542498ca39250e0\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CThis Government is determined to put public safety back at the heart of the criminal justice system.\u201D; if so, has the number of victimisations from incidents using a stabbing or cutting weapon in the Auckland City Police District increased by 32 percent since he has taken office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240480dd02b5f470aa7d0d4877a36bca9\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely we stand by that statement, because we\u2019ve come off the back of six years of a soft-on-crime Government and we\u2019re having to fix and repair the enormous amount of damage that they did. In terms of the Auckland CBD, we have increased by over 50 percent the amount of beat patrols and foot patrols now. There are early signs that crime in the Auckland CBD is starting to reduce, and we\u2019re going to continue to be focused on this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277bc0e2fa6454536bb4968e1fcaee923\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Are the number of victimisations from incidents involving a\u00A0stabbing or cutting weapon in the Waitemat\u0101 Police District up by 25 percent since he took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022356d0b0b8d6348eba18aae1631b40fe6\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I\u2019d say that this Government inherited a situation where we\u2019ve got massive violent crime that we\u2019re now having to get on top of and start to reduce. When it comes to knife crime, I have spoken to police, and I\u2019ve asked for advice on that because we\u2019ve seen in the UK a massive increase in knife crime. We\u2019re now seeing in Australia an increased use of knife crime, and this is probably going to arrive on our shores too, and this Government\u2019s going to get ahead of the problem and make sure that we actually deal with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a2c0f8e7ae7420ab214d015199adefb\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that it is for the chief executive or the Commissioner of Police to determine if police communicators who answer 111 calls are front-line or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e5c1fec644f4d1fbcd228090ebf51d4\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do agree with the Prime Minister because just about every day he\u2019s committed to making sure that we\u2019ve got a safer country and that we\u2019re moving in the right direction. In terms of 111 operators, I would define a front-line police officer, myself, as a sworn police officer, and I would say that the 111 operator\u2019s job is no less important in terms of public safety. But it is there to support those front-line police officers in their job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fa35f7b090341509f95022100aa87de\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I\u2019m not clear\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc9a57ffbe1a4aeab0d2575287e0a65c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Why are you talking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d68477383d5d44f98ab4caa372ff1e7f\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, he said he agreed with the Prime Minister that it\u2019s for the chief executive or the Commissioner of Police to determine. But then he gave his own reckons that it was actually a sworn officer. So I\u2019m unclear as to what was the answer to my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022044326b632b2499a8fbc37ab4d14814a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but I\u2019m not. So next question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da6ca2c327834c0db0d605e78969d6e6\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his answer to written parliamentary question No. 8217 that in fact police communicators who answer 111 calls are not front-line?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a078336bcba5410ba9312c23b70f5ae3\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I would say that my determination is I view a front-line police officer as a sworn member of police, and I view the incredibly important job that communicators and 111 call takers do as being critically important, but they are there to support our sworn front-line police officers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002283d8d6688b164e6d8b4e8df901c32b7e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022b23af293022a4f50bc2ff79ffbb089b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b23af293022a4f50bc2ff79ffbb089b9\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u00228309ad0eab9c42ff82260c8c0c4789c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228309ad0eab9c42ff82260c8c0c4789c8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and especially our announcement on the weekend which will save Aucklanders, including those in that member\u2019s electorate, from a predicted rates increase of 26 percent. We promised to repeal and replace Labour\u2019s disastrous three waters model, and we are. The previous Government\u2019s divisive, ineffective approach wasted $1.2\u00A0billion and achieved absolutely nothing. In just six months, we\u2019ve delivered for Auckland and Aucklanders. Local Water Done Well\u2019s going to deliver better water services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022751c334b93594dceb462686a82c5931e\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the OECD\u2019s findings, some of which his Minister of Finance was just referring to, that, I quote, \u201CNew Zealand\u2019s tax settings remain an outlier internationally.\u201D, and that shares, land, and owner-occupied residential property are tax favoured?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268e7c5e868034783868c9694e1bf6ad4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I would say is that I agree with some of what the OECD says; I disagree with other things that they say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e71594c8dd28461a9daf12aac4d1ca56\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What did the OECD get wrong, then, with their analysis that New Zealand\u2019s tax settings remain an outlier internationally and that shares, land, and owner-occupied residential property are tax favoured?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ce206f9d7874b9faa9d8608ea537fbd\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I would say is what they got right is that we need to invest more in education; we need to invest more in competition and deregulation; and we need to make sure that we\u2019re investing in science, technology, innovation, and international trade and investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7d1153f7f8b4039be1463827997e1f7\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree that our tax settings incentivise property speculation and disincentivise productivity, or does he disagree with the Treasury, the IMF, the OECD, and pretty much every credible economist in the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a29813265764c638e9d874c0a5c96b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Look, what I agree with is that low and middle income working New Zealanders\u2014the very people that the Labour Party and the Green Party used to profess they cared about\u2014actually deserve tax relief. It\u2019s been 14 long years; there\u2019s been a 40 percent growth in inflation. They\u2019re going to get it at this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022378378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280ab9116d7dd42048c1f94b4e26239ef\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to those low and middle income earners who can see in this OECD report that shares, land, and owner-occupied residential property are tax favoured under his Government\u2019s tax settings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf5a0dcfbb1f4e2c94207d1a35667628\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, as I said, we are not supporting a capital gains tax; that is period. We\u2019re not doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022015154614a8d4e31a065c71d4b3d95c7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Corrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u002243b1b4bb1ea24cefaa56a77b9209efe5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243b1b4bb1ea24cefaa56a77b9209efe5\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: What recent announcements has he made about investment in Corrections?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002212879289db8e4357b94b4b7aa8f78e5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212879289db8e4357b94b4b7aa8f78e5a\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday I announced\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f2de0ed7a3242e8aaee650cae843492\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just hang on\u2014wait. Just let him at least start the answer before the barracking begins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022706ea51106724220a50299562bfc6452\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yesterday I announced a key part of this Government\u2019s plan to crack down on crime and restore law and order. Alongside the Prime Minister, I announced $1.9 billion of investment in Corrections to meet their workforce requirements for a growing prison population as well as capital investment to build a new 810-bed facility at Waikeria Prison. The funding will meet the current shortfall left by the previous Government, which has meant that Corrections is housing an additional 1,100 prisoners on top of what they\u2019re budgeted for. Not only are we meeting the shortfall, we are funding headroom on top of that. It means that Corrections will be staffed to house 10,000 prisoners at any given time. It gives the system capacity to take violent repeat offenders off the street. The new build at Waikeria will comprise three units, with an additional 810\u00A0beds. This is on top of the 500 beds opening in the middle of next year. This announcement will take Waikeria\u2019s total capacity when complete to 1,865 prisoners, making it New Zealand\u2019s largest prison. The previous Government had a target to empty prisons. No Government wants to see a skyrocketing prison population\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea78ba19dc3f4e6bbe24b2675b14f517\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Speakers\u2019 rulings are pretty clear that Ministers shouldn\u2019t really go on once they\u2019ve answered the question. This was answered\u2014the question\u2014a long time ago. And also, now we\u2019re straying into areas that you yourself have warned Ministers about, it\u2019s one thing to make factual statements; it\u2019s another thing to make political statements. I asked for a point of order immediately upon that Minister making political, not factual, definitely debatable, statements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229048260190544ceeac90c1cbdd62b237\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that\u2019s right. You raise an interesting question, actually, because it is my personal view that some of these questions here today could have been answered with the word \u201Cyes\u201D, and then there would be no supplementaries to follow. But I haven\u2019t ruled that way. I would say, can I just ask the Minister to leave out political references that are\u00A0attacks on the Opposition and speak factually about the matters that he\u2019s been asked to speak on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220200656a31354e48b5a9d05dae6a898f\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I just seek your guidance on one point. The fact is that the previous Government\u2019s only target set for public safety was a reduction of the prison muster by 30 percent. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d81671dad5954cb8ac4e1c9ceec041a5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute. We\u2019re dealing with a point of order, so please stay quiet. That might be the Minister\u2019s view, but it\u2019s probably not the public record. So there are other ways to make that statement, and I think it would be more reasonable for the Minister to try and do that. But that answer was extremely long\u2014informative, but long. So can we have another question on that, James Meager?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc483511212e4a9cba8e79947ee0babe\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Has he considered the need for rehabilitation of our prisoners?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b6bcce60f2e4de1aa291e239d5ef0bd\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I have. As part of this announcement, we\u2019ve announced a total of $78\u00A0million for Corrections\u2019 rehabilitation programmes. This will deliver fulltime-equivalent resources to rehab services, physical spaces for the rehab to occur, and additional staffing to ensure our prisoners get the rehabilitation services they need to return to society. Since becoming Minister, I\u2019ve asked Corrections to refocus rehabilitation services on practical skills\u2014helping to develop practical skills like driving and trades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcae58e81e7944ccab0b02bfa9c5b177\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: M\u014Drena. Are the additional 810 new prison beds part of this Government\u2019s approach to M\u0101ori housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224835489650874c909d7f966a5732fb02\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this Government has clearly said that we\u2019re putting public safety at the heart of what we\u2019re doing. That means that we anticipate that there probably will be an increase in numbers coming into our corrections system, and that\u2019s why we made this announcement around capacity. But what we really want to see is a reduction in that prison muster as we start to get control of the crime in our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222030a85e7a0e40449ac817b186dc845d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just remind the House that when it comes to asking questions, ironic expressions are not acceptable. I didn\u2019t pull the member up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222884bc089cd4a2c865384d13033d610\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Tag and release.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220313da747a1249c5b7d7e856fe5e5632\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I beg your pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edbbe084a4d54fddb0ed22e7226908cf\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Tag and release.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc236ec4ff6e4367bab17f274816af09\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now hang on, are you going to take a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c65ba5370a340a59d22e63fdcf45c96\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The expression was also used in this House that I believe fits in the same explanation that you\u2019ve just used\u2014the catchphrase \u201Ctag and release\u201D, and there was no\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022850ad7b7bbdd4a7fa06cb32916cb8a32\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, catch and release\u2014catch and release; listen up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f649badda4574a269555b635fda4e3b4\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m not talking to you. Catch and release. I think that\u2019s unacceptable also, but it was never pulled up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9d561fed92049faa4954508237db9e5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, partly I didn\u2019t hear it because of other noise in the House, but I\u00A0think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c8d5076a0604aa7954e5e6cacf0984d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Catch and release, I said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022330aee572aab4651bb7c90b614262701\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220af0d8bfaf8d406d9ebb35a80b453131\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s on the Hansard; they know it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec348c9cc3034cf998302c643c6a7024\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I\u2019m trying to deal with this. Just everyone calm down. All I\u2019m saying is that, in general, the Standing Orders are pretty clear about what can be in a\u00A0question and what can\u2019t be. They are equally clear on what can be in an answer and\u00A0can\u2019t be, but everyone accepts that there is a degree of leniency for the sake of flow in the\u00A0House. I\u2019m just making that point today so that we don\u2019t get into that day after day after day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccef4a897b254883ada0982cfcaa9170\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Will this announcement increase the number of corrections officers across the network?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa4df5206fa54b8b85edeabaf9610034\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it absolutely will. We\u2019re funding an additional 685\u00A0front-line jobs. This includes 470 corrections officers, increasing both staff and prisoner safety. It will also meet the remuneration requirements that came out of the collective negotiations with the union at the end of last year, as well as funding for future negotiations. This announcement is forward-looking, future-proofing the corrections system\u2019s capacity, meeting the needs of our front-line staff, and making sure that they have the numbers they need to keep people safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fecfd17a769b48bb9c2322c056ea3893\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: How was this level of spending made possible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271565a6db59a44db9760687eea98b652\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a great question, because if this was the previous Government, they would have taxed or borrowed this funding\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3c12793ec8b485eb9ffd4aeca7c0c21\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we\u2019ll stop there\u2014we\u2019ll stop right there. Thanks very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d007d44251be48ff9c5643ce3c772a9a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Corrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e356731221564fb4a459997866cdcf35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e356731221564fb4a459997866cdcf35\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that corrections funding announced yesterday was all operating allowance and not capital funding; if so, does he stand by all of his own statements yesterday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00223b3d7cece2f140a3a1d9a11b790c81d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b3d7cece2f140a3a1d9a11b790c81d5\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by the statements that\u2014it was a significant announcement that we made yesterday, and it was of a $1.9\u00A0billion investment in capital and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cb6a7647cb14f1f891e089d26f60f32\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It was beyond you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1ec228f8877432c80cadf2490ff32be\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if you give me a second, I will answer it. You seem very excited and keen to hear the answer; why don\u2019t you just let me say it? So the $1.9\u00A0billion investment was in capital and operating expenditure for a corrections system that has received very little focus or attention from the previous Government, whose only public safety target was to reduce the prison muster by 30 percent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a8ce45e6f04421c9f286dd167a762ae\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The claim that the Minister keeps repeating\u2014as a Minister\u2014is wrong in fact and could only be interpreted as deliberately misleading the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230b948d213194b0e8c65c88c594701bd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, to be honest with you, I didn\u2019t hear it said. There was a lot of noise coming from over here; I missed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227089f1823684447bbf2399bd5bd9e9ee\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he said it multiple times\u2014that there was only one target of the previous Government. Anyone picking up the Estimates documents will see that there are dozens of targets for Vote Corrections and that the claim the Minister is making is not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022155ccf3832434f8c908a866d4b67dc84\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And I\u2019d ask the Minister to therefore refrain from making that statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfa27cd0ed2f4352b5e47cb54fc80c5b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. In fact, he needs to correct it\u2014he has given misleading and incorrect information to the House repeatedly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c2f5c0691f34287a1a77eea91e729c0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, no, you can\u2019t ask for that. In the end, it is a political exchange in here, and that is part of that. I can only adjudge the reasonableness of anyone\u2019s statements. But it would be unreasonable for me to say that because the Opposition says you\u2019re wrong, you must apologise or withdraw from it\u2014that wouldn\u2019t be the way the place works. Can I please\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240100208c3364a268375b373fb7bc09c\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022692d86e16dfa4e7990133721572e8448\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Tracey McLellan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b89b7b06fc804b77bb47506d804887e7\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Hold on\u2014he hasn\u2019t answered yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022968d0dd2bb59415a8953489d4a6320ba\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: What proportion of the funding announced\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf0bf3bd239545db916515e9a3a4606c\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: On notice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d347081094f401b8196b1e234f60279\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Wait on. Sorry\u2014you\u2019re probably right, actually. I\u2019ve pulled you up too quick. So the Hon Kieran McAnulty is providing able assistance\u2014thank you very much. Mark Mitchell, do you want to answer that primary question without the political inferences\u2014the primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3ab0216c3d54942b05f30c9ae47475c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ve answered the substantive part of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6300e37036048119f3feeba9fc78d15\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, have another go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a15fdd96b38a4c05a8b577bfca7a579d\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: Everyone\u2019s confused.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdde7b3df84147ed897545729f7d16c4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no; everyone\u2019s\u2014no, no. Hang on. Wait on. Can I just say\u2014hold on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022242d27826bc54b6f9f51850e229cfa05\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by the significant announcement that we made\u00A0yesterday of a $1.9 billion investment in capital and operating expenditure for a\u00A0corrections system that has received very little focus or attention from the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baf7415dee9b4e42b6f5e9af45875649\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, this was a question on notice. There is a higher standard required for those questions. The Minister has not answered or addressed the first part of this question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eda0e3fe737d4d50907bc34384ac2d72\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think he has, so much as the previous question of a similar nature, asked by the Leader of the Opposition, got the answer from the Prime Minister, which said that those matters are subject to the Budget. While the quantum might well be out there, the split of that will clearly be announced when the Budget\u2019s announced. So I don\u2019t think it\u2019s an unreasonable answer from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276e132dbbaa7424d81f06e9e6666ec6d\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: What proportion of the funding announced is capital expenditure, and what proportion is operating expenditure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb5a21c919284ad7a0b6209ed3fc12f0\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, like the Prime Minister said, the capital expenditure currently will not be disclosed because there are current negotiations, sensitive negotiations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ab4535e5a4d42c1bfb994623354c32e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: He doesn\u2019t know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d0bf6b0298e42cbabbe5284fac845f3\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014going on by Corrections in terms of the delivery of Waikeria Prison. It is completely commercially sensitive. And the Leader of the Opposition\u2014it just goes to show just how little he knows in terms of being able to deliver Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac7af996fdef4048bd1a130ba1411bfa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014no, no, no. Sit down! Sit down! No, the member will\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d792de5f8604845af4c42825cf45d55\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: What proportion, therefore, of the $1.9 billion of funding he announced yesterday is from the operating allowance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f2297b297c64564a5f590bf8818f748\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ve been very clear about\u2014the piece that we can talk directly to is the $78 million that we\u2019re putting into rehabilitation programmes for prisoners on remand. Anything to do with pay negotiations or commercial negotiations around capital projects on Waikeria is sensitive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e830296e4f6042f18ade51a2ec171f4d\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Waikeria upgrades he announced yesterday be delivered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298135324797c4d4fb933471bc98b627a\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019ve said that the first 500 will be delivered in the middle of next year. Then, the additional 810 will be delivered towards the end of 2028.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226996884caf141ea907ae892c36fa92a\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the fiscal approach of the previous Government when it came to corrections funding was to believe that all the money came from Treasure Island?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290b1238654cc4a66a664280a6d0b1a3d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014no; sit down. I\u2019ve got to say\u2014just a minute. I\u2019m going to call the Hon Nicole McKee, but, I\u2019ve got to say, those sort of questions don\u2019t help the order of the House, at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228031cecd215b4a7580bfd9b4035054d0\u0022\u003EHon Nicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: To the Minister: does he agree that a well-funded corrections system is essential in supporting this Government\u2019s new and improved three-strikes law, which will take serious violent and sexual offenders off our streets and keep New Zealanders safe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022984074b01f9c49d18eed2ee6cecf1bed\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I tell you what, you can have a brief response. But the question itself\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2d347694d984ceb850ab011a732a802\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s got nothing to do with the primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022034c258fe1304bef9a383cde788381f9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is not anything to do with the primary, and so a brief response and then we\u2019re over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259539b83db4f4713b607186311d27f47\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, absolutely, I agree with the member. Investing in the capacity and the welfare of the staff in our corrections service is completely aligned with what the three-strikes legislation is intending to do\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022511b2b8935484738afd2b280cdf6fb50\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good\u2014that\u2019s excellent. That was a great answer\u2014I meant only a great answer in its brevity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f461a47449408181db71d1d3f09971\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: How much of the $442 million in operational savings is coming from scrapping programmes, and how many of these programmes are in place to keep corrections staff safe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215f10157f0d3405ca55f1a91b05f7956\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the first thing I\u2019d say is that one of my priorities as the incoming Minister was to make sure that we started to reduce the amount of assaults on our corrections officers\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8e59619063340fc9eccd261ced67dcc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022347482cd95284c1198d3472c87d8735c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014who deserve\u2014well, part of the question was around the safety of our corrections officers, so I\u2019m going to answer that. You opened the door, so I\u2019ll answer. One of my priorities as the incoming Minister was around corrections officer safety, because we\u2019ve seen an alarming rise, under the previous Government, of assaults on our corrections officers. The good news is that assaults on corrections officers are starting to reduce. In terms of programmes, that is an operational decision for Corrections. But what I\u2019d say to the members is that while we\u2019ve got people inside the corrections system, we\u2019re going to deliver programmes that give them meaningful life skills that give them the best shot of rejoining society and making a go of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d25db9adba7946859ae97e86c480d684\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. The member asking the question asked him whether any programmes that focused on the operational safety of corrections staff were being reduced. The overall thrust of the Minister\u2019s answer, when you get down to it, was that it\u2019s an operational matter for Corrections. That simply cannot be allowed to stand as an answer in this House. Ministers are accountable for operational matters to the House. It\u2019s well-codified in Speakers\u2019 rulings and in the Standing Orders that you cannot give that as an answer to the House. You might be able to give that as an answer outside the House, but when it comes to operational matters, it is the Minister that is accountable to the House for those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225012611c55e949d1abe210f9d85743e2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but I have heard numerous times in this House Ministers say, \u201CThat is an operational matter for which I don\u2019t have direct responsibility.\u201D So it\u2019s kind of one of those areas that I think you could take two different positions on. But I will ask the Hon Mark Mitchell to perhaps answer the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee2a635cc88944c5a2fdc2733807a2bc\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I\u2019d say is that my main priority is the safety of our corrections officers. And so my expectation in corrections is that they enhance programmes and improve programmes to make sure that our corrections officers are safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4a29b7a15fe4227b10ab366c8c65852\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Still no answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc5eee4ba94041929ff08e5fb1425eda\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: So as\u2014well, just before we finish, the member can sit there and say that there was still no answer, but when the Minister says his \u201Cexpectation is\u201D, that is exactly the relationship between a Minister and a chief executive, as the Prime Minister\u2014and the former Prime Minister\u2014well knows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002252593558eb834f9ea8b68092906f5a3b\u0022\u003EOffices of Parliament\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002231e2029dd46a42ae964331943e283899\u0022\u003EAddress to Governor-General\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022df742ad84ada4a1a8548b8946b49aa91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df742ad84ada4a1a8548b8946b49aa91\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That a respectful Address be presented to Her Excellency the Governor-General commending to Her Excellency the alterations to the appropriations for the 2023/24 financial year in respect of Vote Audit, and the estimates of expenses and capital injection for the 2024/25 financial year in respect of Vote Audit, Vote Ombudsmen, and Vote Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to, and Address agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e36d22ab61ad4149aae194d0a9d60928\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e36d22ab61ad4149aae194d0a9d60928\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2022/23 Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022deda4cebd8ce4d8b91b9fb2a9821e379\u0022\u003EAnnual Review Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022921aea4f26754df2addda706ee399815\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000305\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 2 May on the Appropriation (2022/23 Confirmation and Validation) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e37b66d7d7884198a492efd94e9ae26b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e37b66d7d7884198a492efd94e9ae26b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2022/23 Confirmation and Validation) Bill. This is the debate on the financial position of the Government and the annual reviews of departments, Officers of Parliament, Crown entities, public organisations, and State enterprises, as reported on by select committees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThere are four hours and 46 minutes remaining in this debate. New Zealand National has one hour and 12 minutes remaining. New Zealand Labour has one hour and 41\u00A0minutes remaining. The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand has 36 minutes remaining. ACT New Zealand has 37 minutes remaining. New Zealand First has 28 minutes remaining. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori has 27 minutes remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003EThe Government has indicated that the Minister of Housing, the Minister of Police, the Minister of Local Government, and the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries will be available today to respond to members\u2019 questions. Each debate will be led off by the chairman or another member of the committee that considered annual reviews most closely related to the Minister\u2019s portfolios. These speeches should be a non-political report back to the committee from the select committee. The Minister of Housing is here for 45 minutes to respond to members\u2019 questions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220839d0797548424486db15461c290184\u0022\u003EHousing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022fce8dd681adf497887e6efdf27e6ad16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fce8dd681adf497887e6efdf27e6ad16\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So I rise as the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee which reported back on the annual review of K\u0101inga Ora Homes and Communities, Ministry of Housing and Urban Development, and T\u0101maki Redevelopment Company Limited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ENow, rather than reporting separately on each entity for the 2022-23 annual reviews, we have considered the social housing sector as a whole. And so we conducted a hearing on those three entities, and we also heard from the Minister of Housing, the Hon Chris Bishop, for 34 minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just going to go through some of the key points that we considered and reported back on to the House. So, in terms of K\u0101inga Ora, in December 2023, the Government commissioned an independent review of the financial situation of, and procurement and asset management in, K\u0101inga Ora. When the review was announced, the Minister of Housing expressed concern over the current and projected growth of K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s debt and deficit levels. So as of June 2023, K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s total debt was $12.3 billion, more than four times its debt level in 2018, which was $2.7 billion. That represents a debt-to-asset ratio of around 27 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003ESo K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s financial planning takes a long-term view of its financial sustainability, looking 60 years ahead, and it forecasts that under current settings, its debt will not be completely repaid over the 60-year period. They told us that by 2081, they project that its total assets will be valued at around $260 billion and will have around $9\u00A0billion in debt. That would represent a debt-to-asset ratio of around 3.5 percent. Its debt is forecast to peak at $28.9 billion in 2033.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EK\u0101inga Ora told us that the three largest areas of expenditure were maintaining public housing, the construction of new public housing supply, and large-scale civil works, including its large-scale projects such as Te M\u0101t\u0101wai Greys Ave in Auckland. It said that it is working to improve efficiency and save costs across all three areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThe Ministry of Housing and Urban Development told us that it\u2019s been working alongside the Treasury and K\u0101inga Ora to review K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s spending, funding, and financing systems. We noted that in 2022, the financing arrangements of K\u0101inga Ora changed so it could no longer borrow money directly from the private market to build and renovate public housing. Instead, it must borrow through New Zealand Debt Management, a business unit within the Treasury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn terms of increasing public housing, both K\u0101inga Ora and the T\u0101maki Redevelopment Company Limited advised that their goals are to increase public housing supply. And K\u0101inga Ora advised that in the 2022-23 financial year, they built 2,893 new public and supported homes against a target of 3,400 homes. So that resulted in a net increase of 2,526 homes to its public housing portfolio in comparison to its target of 2,200\u00A0homes. K\u0101inga Ora has said that in total it has built more than 11,000 homes in the last six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EThe T\u0101maki Redevelopment Company reported that it has a target of building 10,500\u00A0new, affordable, and private market homes in the following 20 years and in the 2023-24 year constructed a total of 128 new homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EHousing and Urban Development advise that it has a focus on place-based rather one-size-fits-all approach to addressing housing needs. Under this approach, housing planning aims to recognise and respond to the needs of each specific community, and it uses data such as the social housing register and median regional incomes to determine priority areas of highest need across the country. And the Minister noted that levels of\u00A0housing affordability vary greatly across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn terms of maintenance, renewals, and retrofits, K\u0101inga Ora said that it\u2019s guided by its Asset Management Plan, a system it first introduced in 2016, and in the 2022-23 year renewed around 750 homes. Now, the rising cost of construction and high inflation has contributed to an increase in maintenance costs. Housing and Urban Development also noted that it is focused on working with local councils to support growth in their regions and has said that it\u2019s absolutely critical that local councils play a role that is front and centre, and that local councils can have a considerable influence over the housing sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EIn terms of infrastructure and urban planning, all three organisations emphasise that they face significant challenges related to infrastructure and urban planning, and we heard that a lack of supporting infrastructure can create roadblocks to being able to efficiently plan and provide for housing growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EAnd finally, in the time available, it\u2019s important that the work is being done with community housing providers, which we also reported back on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3146efbf78d45e9a8b02ea7c03bdcb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3146efbf78d45e9a8b02ea7c03bdcb0\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, thank you, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. So my questions are related to public housing, just off of the back of what the previous speaker was reeling off facts about. My first question, and I\u2019m really hoping to get a response to this, is around the sale of State houses. On 9 April, in question time, there was an exchange between Minister Potaka and Minister Bishop around the briefing that you received when you became the Minister. In that exchange, on 9 April, you talked about\u2014I think Minister Potaka talked about his surprise to read about the impending sale of thousands of State houses. So I was wondering if you would be able to elaborate on that information for us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThe next question I had was around the public housing plan, and income-related rent\u00A0placements, and the impact on community housing providers. Obviously, this is a critical subsidy and fund that helps community housing providers and K\u0101inga Ora to be able to\u00A0build new public housing. So my second question is around who will actually build the\u00A0public housing that is needed to clear the wait-list in reference to that strategic priority for K\u0101inga Ora and for the community housing sector; really interested to understand what funding they will have available to them to be able to build more public housing when there, I believe, has been no guarantee of those further income-related rent subsidy placements? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EAnd, sorry, my third question is around the Sustaining Tenancies Framework. I\u2019m really interested to understand a bit more about complaints in the previous year, and the fact that 45 percent of those households where there have been complaints have had children, and I\u2019m really interested to know how those children benefited from the Sustaining Tenancies Framework being in place, because obviously that is about to be\u00A0removed. I\u2019m really interested to understand how those complaints were handled previously without completely getting rid of the framework, and how that is going to\u00A0be, I guess, different going into a K\u0101inga Ora without the Sustaining Tenancies Framework. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022db6c77afb5fd436c8a7dc42601f3c7c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db6c77afb5fd436c8a7dc42601f3c7c4\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the member for her questions. Let me take them in order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe first question was around the sale of State houses by K\u0101inga Ora, particularly the reference to the 9 April exchange with Minister Potaka. It\u2019s a matter of public record that the information that came to Ministers upon this coalition Government taking office is that the latest forecast from K\u0101inga Ora was that over the forecast period\u2014so, in other words, from this year onwards\u2014K\u0101inga Ora was forecasting the sale of over 10,000 State houses. So I don\u2019t have much more to add to the situation than that. That has been made public by Ministers and is contained in the Treasury document that Ministers received. That is clearly something that the member finds alarming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EK\u0101inga Ora has on average, until now, been selling anywhere between 50 and 150\u00A0houses per year. The previous Government like to talk a lot about how they had stopped the \u201CState house sell-off\u201D, to use their words. Actually, K\u0101inga Ora continued to sell and demolish State houses, and some places are in the wrong location. Some houses are uneconomic to repair or remediate. It makes more sense to sell, in the same way that any other landlord would do, and so K\u0101inga Ora has been doing that. But, it is definitely also\u00A0true to say that K\u0101inga Ora has forecast, at the end of last year, a significant increase\u2014a surge in sales\u2014and that is one of the reasons why the Government commissioned an\u00A0independent review into K\u0101inga Ora at the end of year, on which we will have more to say shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe second question was around the public housing build programme in relation to the income-related rent subsidy. Again, it is a matter of public record that future income-related rent\u2014or IRRS, as we call it\u2014subsidies for social housing places finish on 30 June 2025. That is next year. So, in the ordinary course of events, there would be a four-year budget forecast. That was not done by the previous Government. That funding is time limited and it expires, so, again, that is something that the current Government is having to grapple with. So her question was specifically about who will build new public houses in New Zealand, and the answer is, as is always the case, both the community housing sector, which does an excellent job around the country, and also K\u0101inga Ora, which plays a very important role in our housing system. It is in fact the country\u2019s biggest landlord. It\u2019s a $45 billion company. It is extremely important that it is run efficiently and effectively. So, in terms of the future, who will be building social houses\u2014the answer is, the community housing sector and K\u0101inga Ora. In due course, the Government will make its intentions clear around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe third question was around the Sustaining Tenancies Framework. Ministers have asked K\u0101inga Ora to draw a different balance when it comes to sustaining tenancies. We have asked the board to replace the capital \u201CS\u201D capital \u201CF\u201D framework\u2014so \u201CSustaining Tenancies\u201D with a capital \u201CS\u201D and a capital \u201CF\u201D. We have asked them to replace that and strike a different balance between the clear benefits of keeping tenants in social housing but also making sure that they are accountable and responsible for bad behaviour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe make no apologies for striking a different balance, because the social licence for K\u0101inga Ora to operate has been eroded over the last few years by repeated and wilful bad behaviour by a small group of tenants who the public see as very\u2014no consequences or responsibility for that behaviour. So the name of K\u0101inga Ora has, in many communities, become synonymous with bad behaviour and antisocial behaviour. That is in no one\u2019s interests, because it is very important that K\u0101inga Ora enjoys social licence, because they own 70,000 houses, and they frequently\u2014very often\u2014look after quite vulnerable members of our community. So, it is very important that K\u0101inga Ora has a good name, and that has not been the case in the last few years. So, we have asked the board to draw a different balance. Minister Potaka has responsibility for that particular part, and he may wish to offer some other comments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00221c5fce4917e44401a7162b1534a1cd10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c5fce4917e44401a7162b1534a1cd10\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to the Minister, or Ministers\u2014and the questions are around the M\u0101ori housing area, Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga programme. Can I ask the Ministers, first of all, will the support for the Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga programme continue? That\u2019s my first question, and there are just a couple of others that I\u2019ll add now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWith the devastation caused by Cyclone Gabrielle, what update has the Minister\u2014and\u00A0it may be Minister Potaka\u2014have in relation to Toitu Tairawhiti and the programme delivery partnership agreement for the delivery of 150 rent-to-buy homes in the last 12\u00A0months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ECan I ask, also, how many wh\u0101nau have benefited from having their home repaired over the past year through the Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ELastly, can I ask what is the total number of homes approved and contracted for delivery in Te Tai Tokerau, T\u0101maki-makau-rau, Waikato, Tainui, Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti, Te Tai Hau\u0101uru, and Te Wai Pounamu in the last 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EBut if we could have some response particularly in terms of the continual support of this programme Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga, we\u2019ll be very pleased to hear the Government\u2019s response. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00226bcc8a4674a540dfb8435f49b74c19ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bcc8a4674a540dfb8435f49b74c19ea\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I have a series of questions, and I know these work best when it is a question and answer \u2013 type format, so I\u2019ll keep the first one brief. I\u2019m interested to hear the Minister\u2019s comments that when they came to office, they were presented with Treasury advice\u2014this is consistent with the statement that he made on 18\u00A0February on Facebook and that the Prime Minister made in the state of the nation speech. I ask how he can rectify that, when considering response to written question 7084, that the advice in question was actually commissioned by the Minister of Finance later in December.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022b10dfd75c58e4b038ec6939a6d9e653c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b10dfd75c58e4b038ec6939a6d9e653c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not sure what\u2019s inconsistent about that. The Minister of Finance and I are both responsible Ministers for K\u0101inga Ora. I\u2019d have to go back and check the exact specifics. It was either a joint memo or piece of advice to the two of us, or it was a piece of advice to the Minister forwarded to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00222933bacc20de4a6fb828b093156b3766\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222933bacc20de4a6fb828b093156b3766\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Nevertheless, neither of those equate to when they came into office they were presented with the advice. I would ask the Minister to respond to an Official Information Act request which answered the question, \u201CWhat advice did Treasury receive from other departments on forecasts of the sale of K\u0101inga Ora homes?\u201D, which says that Treasury did not receive formal advice from other departments on the forecast of the sale of K\u0101inga Ora homes; analysis that determined the 10,200 figure presented in the withheld document was conducted in consultation with K\u0101inga Ora and\u00A0Ministry of Housing and Urban Development officials using K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s own internal financial forecasting models; and the response that we received during the select committee hearing that confirmed that the model and the projection of 10,200 sale of State houses was\u00A0contingent on a lack of additional funding post-2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00220e40d8aee12248a38dec131a6690149d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e40d8aee12248a38dec131a6690149d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Some of what the member talks about is commercially sensitive. But what I can tell the member is that, well, firstly, in response to his first point: if his point is that late December is not \u201Cupon coming to office\u201D, I don\u2019t accept that. We took office on 27 November, so three or four weeks later is, I would argue, \u201Cupon coming to office\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe second point is in relation to\u2014I wasn\u2019t quite sure what he was saying in relation to the Treasury report. The Treasury report, as the member himself adverted to with his\u00A0comments, is based on K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s own internal information. So they base that on their own internal data, so it speaks for itself. Some of what he says is not factually accurate around the future funding requirements. It is a matter of fact and now public record that at the end of last year, K\u0101inga Ora was forecasting a significant surge in State house sales over the forecast period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002210b62097f19a4293b9acb91183a3bf05\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210b62097f19a4293b9acb91183a3bf05\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Is the Minister therefore saying that Ministry of Housing and Urban Development officials that presented to the select committee were incorrect when they said that forecasts\u2014which are made and based upon the information they have available to them at the time; which are therefore based on a lack of funding post-2025\u2014when Treasury was asked to commission advice on the future forecasts of K\u0101inga Ora based on a lack of funding past 2025\u2014forecast that 10,200 homes would need to be sold, and that figure was landed to solely on the basis of a lack of funding, as confirmed by officials in select committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdf112e605d84d6c8ee8269da98ed9f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdf112e605d84d6c8ee8269da98ed9f9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E No, I\u2019m not saying that. Forecasts, by definition, are static at that point in time and are dynamic and updated\u2014so I\u2019m not saying that. But I would venture to suggest that the member goes and talks to his colleagues who\u2019ve been previous Ministers of Housing. They would not have found a situation at any time in the last 6.5 years in which K\u0101inga Ora was forecasting such a significant upsurge in State house sales.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u002267c43230d9a549129ae5a626b3fb6cdf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267c43230d9a549129ae5a626b3fb6cdf\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. And thank you for the questions about M\u0101ori housing, which I will take a little bit of time to respond to. Certainly, the challenges that M\u0101ori have had in housing are well documented, whether or not it\u2019s ownership or rental, or other challenges such as the large number of M\u0101ori in State housing\u2014public housing\u2014in either K\u0101inga Ora homes, community housing provider homes, or emergency housing. I think people know that some of the stats, particularly with emergency housing, are very concerning. In some locations, over 70 percent of those residents of emergency housing arrangements are M\u0101ori, such as in Rotorua and near to Hamilton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThe Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga strategy documents the tremendous aspiration to have more homes for M\u0101ori, but also \u201Cby M\u0101ori, for M\u0101ori\u201D approaches to building homes. There is certainly some evidence of excellent success and exemplary success in the Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga programme, particularly with Toit\u016B Tair\u0101whiti, Ka Uruora, and other providers, but there are also some opportunities, however, for improvement, for value for money, and to make sure that the homes that are being built are not only affordable at the end point but also affordable through the construction methodology that is used. So there is a definite intent to look at how we can encourage and work more closely with those operating within the Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga strategy to ensure greater efficiency and expeditious delivery of housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EI think there was a question in relation to Cyclone Gabrielle, and then it merged into whether or not the rent-to-buy homes at Toit\u016B Tair\u0101whiti were progressing according to the aspirations and the intent, and I can represent to the committee that there is some significant build programme in front of Toit\u016B Tair\u0101whiti. One thing I like about Toit\u016B Tair\u0101whiti is that they engage with young people as well, to get them involved as kaimahi, as trainees, and, as I mentioned last week in this House, some people who lost their jobs down at the timber mill in Gisborne were retrained to get into construction jobs. So that was a marvellous result for those people who were going to be laid off. Now they\u2019re in construction, helping Toit\u016B Tair\u0101whiti build homes. Toit\u016B was actually involved in also building separate cabins and homes for those that suffered through the Cyclone Gabrielle process and those North Island weather events, and also raising the existing homes, not just cabins, to accommodate any further flooding in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003EThere were a couple of questions in relation to home repairs and the programme of home repairs which has been ongoing through Te Puni K\u014Dkiri and the overall Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga programme. I can reflect that that mahi has actually resulted in some really good outcomes for people living in homes that have had a few challenges, getting them back up to scratch and up to speed, and I can come back with specifics on numbers for both that and the question around Te Pouahi up in Te Taitokerau, which is one of\u00A0the\u00A0iwi housing prototypes, which has just got started, and it started a little bit later than the\u00A0other three housing prototypes. But it\u2019s on its way, and it\u2019s starting to get homes built for needy M\u0101ori and needy New Zealanders. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00222507fc7c0b0c44fbb6645df7c4aae8b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222507fc7c0b0c44fbb6645df7c4aae8b7\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora t\u0101tou. So I\u2019ve got maybe three questions and I guess I\u2019ll just talk through my notes and land on the questions in each one of them. Thank you. The context of this, if I can, is that of the reports that Minister Potaka was referring to\u2014I built 16 of those homes in Aup\u014Duri, and we did a few good things ourselves as iwi\u2014I\u2019m very familiar with Pouahi and very familiar with the home repairs, so, yeah, that\u2019s doing good with what we\u2019ve got at that time, so I\u2019m just really hoping that it gets even better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESo, 2018: only 31 percent of M\u0101ori were in a position of home ownership compared to 57.9 percent of P\u0101keh\u0101 countrywide. What strategies will the Minister put in place to reduce these inequities for M\u0101ori? I\u2019ll keep moving, should I, or\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb9842bbbfb4424d9633d4dc2d764c56\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Over to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c9447c3b02a4b91a3468fcdb68bc9cc\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Happy to. All right. Thank you. A report on M\u0101ori housing and wellbeing conducted in 2021 found that there were direct links between frequent moves between homes and poor health and wellbeing outcomes. M\u0101ori report higher moving rates between homes, at 8.7 percent compared to 5 percent for P\u0101keh\u0101. The reality of this is M\u0101ori having moved five or more times within five years. How can the Minister assure M\u0101ori tenants that the proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will promote longevity of residency, and thereby better health and wellbeing outcomes for M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EProposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act encourage landlords, mostly P\u0101keh\u0101, back into the rental property market. What assurance can the Minister provide for M\u0101ori who are, perversely, tenants on their own whenua, that the Government will protect their rights against the greed of landlords?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori housing deprivation is six times the rate of P\u0101keh\u0101\u2014you can see the method I\u2019m using in this description. Can the Minister provide current examples of what the Government is doing to improve housing outcomes for M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EHousing First, in their last quarterly findings, reported that of all people who access their services, 59 percent were M\u0101ori, based on the primary applicant from the participating household. Can the Minister provide evidence that the Government is reducing the need for M\u0101ori social housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EAnd my final\u2014there are quite a few there, aren\u2019t there? How will the Minister ensure forced eviction of unruly tenants utilising K\u0101inga Ora services is not a measure used to disguise racist attacks and removal of wh\u0101nau and tamariki from their k\u0101inga? Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022c70d75c3e44640639d3f4b8418798ab9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c70d75c3e44640639d3f4b8418798ab9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member Mariameno Kapa-Kingi for her questions. She\u2019s doing well when she asks sensible questions rather than talk about some of the things she was talking about in the general debate last week. But let me deal with the questions in order. First question was about M\u0101ori homeownership: 31 percent was the figure mentioned; it\u2019s too low. Homeownership for all New Zealanders is too low. In 2018, which is the latest figure we have stats for, homeownership was down to 63 percent. It\u2019s a 30-year low, give or take, so it\u2019s too low for everybody, and it\u2019s particularly too low for M\u0101ori and Pacific.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EWe have a comprehensive plan across the housing system to improve homeownership. The centrepiece of that is the Going for Housing Growth plan, which is about unlocking land inside our cities and at the edge of our cities and sorting the infrastructure constraints that stop that land from being developed, and also working alongside councils to develop incentives for them to grow. Ultimately, as a Government we are focused on dealing with the underlying cause of all of our housing issues, and the social housing system\u2014some of which we\u2019ve been talking about\u2014sits within that broader housing framework around land supply and infrastructure funding and financing. Unless that is sorted, we will not make progress on any of the underlying issues in our housing system, including homelessness and including emergency housing and including social housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESo we have deliberately made a conscious decision to focus on the fundamentals, and that work is under way right now, but the driver of our agenda is to lower land cost, make it more affordable and cheaper to build, and over time that will lead to more affordable housing for homeowners and first-home buyers and for community housing providers, and K\u0101inga Ora as well, because K\u0101inga Ora also pays too much for land; K\u0101inga Ora also pays too much to build a house. My colleague Chris Penk, the Minister for Building and Construction, has work under way around lowering build costs, but as I say, the primary driver is around land supply and infrastructure funding and financing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIn relation to her second question around people moving around and the stability of homeownership, I agree with her, that families that don\u2019t get stuck in the rental cycle of moving from year to year are able to put down roots, and there\u2019s a sense of social stability that comes with that. Evidence tends to suggest kids go to school more often, they are able to build relationships\u2014all of the benefits that come with homeownership and social stability. We\u2019ve also got to balance that with the fact that we have a very tight rental market at the moment. The member will have seen the TradeMe data out last week that rents are at record highs. We\u2019ve got a tight rental market, and the reality is many landlords left the rental market over the last few years because of a twin-pronged assault on landlords. The member calls them greedy. Actually, the New Zealand housing system would fall apart without private sector landlords, because they do a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to providing accommodation to people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe word \u201Clandlord\u201D is a somewhat pejorative phrase. Actually, what a landlord is is someone who rents out something that they own to someone who needs accommodation. We have rejected the last Government\u2019s policies when it comes to interest deductibility and restored a principled approach to tax policy which taxes profit, not revenue, and so that will be wound back and that will put downward pressure on rents. We will also rebalance the rental market to make sure that people who want to provide property to other people are able to do so. There are, finally, balanced judgment calls around things like 90-day notice periods and some of the fixed-term tenancy changes we are making, but I think they will, on balance, be a good thing, because they will send a message that those who wish to provide property are able to do so. In relation in particular to a market like Waiheke Island or Queenstown or Dunedin, for example, the fixed-term tenancy automatic rollover to a periodic tenancy has caused utter chaos, and my colleague Joseph Mooney, who\u2019s the MP for Clutha-Southland, has been advocating for the changes that we are making, and rightly so. I think that deals with the third point that the member raised as well around the rental market, and, as I say, reject her characterisation about the greed of landlords.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EIf I just finish with this point: there are often solutions put out there to solve the fact that rents are too high. The Greens like to talk about rent freezes and things like that\u2014economically illiterate, nonsense solutions. The ultimate answer to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229da61843b1d34ccdacc0fa881218d697\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s your tax settings, Bish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229690975a1e344039b218c60255e0caee\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that doesn\u2019t affect it either, because as the member well knows, and I can\u2019t believe we\u2019re\u2014I feel like I\u2019m stuck in Groundhog Day, because, you know, the entire time I\u2019ve been an MP and Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s been an MP, we\u2019ve had this ongoing back and forth about capital gains taxes. I invite the member to go to Sydney and Melbourne and London and all the other countries and places that have, in some cases, quite punitive capital gains taxes, where you will find housing markets that are utterly out of control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe actual point is this: the only sustainable, long-term way to make rents more affordable is supply of housing. That is the answer. As the member well knows herself, if she looks at the evidence from the Auckland Unitary Plan that was adopted in 2016, which has led to a big house-building boom in Auckland, particularly around apartments and terraced housing and other housing typologies that Auckland didn\u2019t have enough of, there\u2019s a wealth of evidence now available\u2014and I refer the member to Stuart Donovan\u2019s research and some other research by other urban economists that Auckland has experienced an increase in rents far less than other housing markets with inflexible land supply and restrictive land policy. So once we liberalised the Auckland land market and made it easier to build, people went and did it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s got to be the thrust of our housing policy generally, which is why\u2014and the member wasn\u2019t here\u2014I go back to the point I made at the start, which is: we are dealing with, or we are aiming to deal with, the fundamentals of housing supply, which is land supply, infrastructure settings, and getting councils to go for growth, because the political economy in too many of our councils is stacked against growth. We actually want to invert the situation so that councils don\u2019t see growth as something to be ambivalent about or hostile to, but they see growth as good. That involves considering sharing the benefits of growth with them, and we\u2019re taking on board the good suggestions of the ACT Party in relation to that. But the fundamentals are about land supply. It\u2019s about density inside our cities, and it\u2019s about growth at the city fringe where the infrastructure can be justified and the economics of that make sense. That is what we are focused on. That is the only sustainable answer to more affordable rents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EEverything else is tinkering. Everything else is sugar-hit economics. Everything else feels like the right thing to do but actually is counterproductive. The proposals often put about by the Greens\u2014and I\u2019m pretty sure the M\u0101ori Party has been on board this illogical train as well. Everything about rent controls is counterproductive. It means that landlords just simply don\u2019t offer properties in the market in the first place and everybody else raises their rent, because when demand stays the\u2014[Interruption] This is economics 101: when demand stays the same and supply falls, guess what happens? The price goes up, or, when the price is not allowed to go up because of, sort of, Stalinist-style rent controls, when the price can\u2019t go up, they don\u2019t offer properties in the first place. That has been the experience of city after city that has looked at the well-intentioned but misguided stupidity of rent controls and decided that that is a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EEconomists don\u2019t agree on that much stuff almost universally, but there are two things: one, free trade is good. It raises incomes across the board. That\u2019s the number one. And the second thing they almost universally agree on, with the exception of a few crank economists out there, is that rent controls are counterproductive and stupid policy, and that\u2019s why we won\u2019t be adopting them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00224f68441a712c4b0597bb023e8f1b2287\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f68441a712c4b0597bb023e8f1b2287\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The annual-review appearance at select committee was useful, and it enabled us to put some context in the claim that the Prime Minister made in his state of the nation speech, the story that, presumably, they lined up before that, which indicated that there was advice sitting on their desk when they got under Government that said that K\u0101inga Ora was going to sell 10,200 homes, because the appearance at select committee clarified that that was contingent on this Government not providing funding post-2025\u2014a pretty important piece of context. And I can confirm that no such advice was ever received by any Minister from the previous Government. What they also confirmed at select committee is that if there is no funding certainty moving forward, K\u0101inga Ora and some community housing providers may not be able to continue with their plans to build houses. We\u2019ve already seen K\u0101inga Ora announce some cancellation projects. We\u2019ve seen community housing providers, like the Salvation Army, indicate that they have cancelled projects. My question to the Minister is: how many K\u0101inga Ora projects and how many community housing projects have been cancelled since this Government was formed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022098116f4f3654df5beca919d0fab2156\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022098116f4f3654df5beca919d0fab2156\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Well, in relation to the member\u2019s last part of the question, you\u2019d have to put that in writing, because I don\u2019t know. K\u0101inga Ora owns 70,000 houses around the country, and it\u2019s $45 billion company. So, at any given time, there will be any number of projects that are rephased, deferred\u2014some may have been cancelled. The market economics of building change literally on a weekly basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6d46458a8e7424c8c3c7b714d6ede5a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Ground conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed56627d1ee24882840c81a7b1282e4b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Ground conditions\u2014there\u2019d be any number of things. So, I\u2019d have to go and look it up, and if the member puts it in writing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4ae336d41c34b879853967dc02067ae\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll do that. That\u2019s all good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280f72d7db74d426d9c78f9e89ab4c500\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, we can have a look at that. But, as I say, at any given moment\u2014and it would have been true in the last six years too; there are all sorts of projects that will have been cancelled. I mean, to give one notable example, there is Porirua East, which was announced with great fanfare in 2021, or perhaps even a touch earlier than that, which has been massively downscaled, which was done very quietly in mid-2023 without many public pronouncements\u2014I suspect because the Government wasn\u2019t very keen on it, but that\u2019s what happened. So, as I say, at any given particular moment, there\u2019d be any number of changes to projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EJust to repeat the point and to deal with the member\u2019s first point, it is a matter of fact\u00A0that when the current Government came to office, the figures that the member is\u00A0talking about around State house sales were presented to us. Yes, it is true that that figure is without any increase in support for K\u0101inga Ora, but it\u2019s worth also bearing in mind that\u00A0that is the situation we inherited. So it is not true that the outgoing Government had\u00A0provided budgetary support or the fiscal support in order to avoid that situation. K\u0101inga Ora did its budget in December 2023, based on the settings not from the current Government but from the outgoing Government. So it was right on the precipice of\u00A0the\u00A0change in Government, and Ministers had barely been sworn in and had not taken any policy decisions whatsoever. So it is true to say that the situation in December was as has\u00A0been presented by the Government, and that is one of the tricky challenges that\u00A0we\u00A0are going to have to deal with as a Government, and it\u2019s one of the reasons, as I\u00A0said earlier, why we have commissioned an independent review into K\u0101inga Ora, because that\u00A0is an alarming state of affairs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u00224f5726ee502a457081018a2711d2e935\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f5726ee502a457081018a2711d2e935\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, our time with the Minister of Housing has now ended. We have the Minister of Police now available for 45 minutes to respond to members\u2019 questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227ce2c430e55f4fd5925a2fafc195f596\u0022\u003EPolice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u00229dc435c6f82a40e7969b7ed534e6a37b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dc435c6f82a40e7969b7ed534e6a37b\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (Chairperson of the Justice Committee):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a real pleasure to lead off the debate into the annual review of Police for the 2022-23 year. Look, the Justice Committee met with Police for two hours in our review, one of three major reviews we did this year, and we are very much looking forward to finalising our scrutiny plan and looking into a few of our other entities and departments throughout the end of this year and over the term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI thought the committee worked actually pretty well, pretty collegially throughout our annual review process, ably led by our Deputy Chair Jamie Arbuckle, and Opposition members all, I think, contributed fairly well and fairly collaboratively to the annual review debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m hoping that that collegiality and that spirit of cooperation continues throughout the term. The Justice Committee is an incredibly busy, effective, hard-working committee with a lot of legislation coming through from a busy, busy Government, and a busy backbench as well, because we\u2019ve got lots of members who are keen to put their views on justice bills coming through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EBut in terms of the annual review, look, we covered a lot of territory for Police, and I\u00A0wanted to just highlight the key items that the committee ended up moving through over the two hours that we had. And can I just say it was a real pleasure to have the commissioner with us. I thought he conducted himself really well in front of some pretty good questioning from all sides of the committee. I think the questions answered were answered in pretty good detail and in pretty good spirit. And where the Police didn\u2019t quite have all the answers, they committed to come back to us and provide them in writing if we needed anything further. So I just wanted to acknowledge the work of the commissioner and, of course, of all our police men and women who serve throughout the country and who have done for many, many years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EAnd can I just take the opportunity to give a shoutout to my brother\u2019s partner, who is a police officer, who had her baby boy late last month. So just a shout-out to wee Lachlan James. And finally we get another James in the House, given that we lost one last week, and I\u2019m the last one standing. So just want to acknowledge Stuart and Jackie and the family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EWe did go through quite a number of topics with the annual review, and I just wanted to highlight a few of the key ones there. So one of the big topics that we talked about during the select committee stage was about reducing gang intimidation and violence. The commissioner was very clear that he found dealing with gangs over his time as a police officer incredibly frustrating and challenging. And I think that\u2019s why the Minister and the Government have placed a very large focus of their law and order agenda moving forward on controlling gang behaviour and eliminating the response and the presence of gangs in our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EAnd I wanted to touch on something that happened during that review period, and that was what happened down in Timaru in my patch, when the local police and local authorities took a pretty hard-line approach to gangs. They decided that they wanted to reject gang presence in our community down in Timaru, and also then start looking at replacing what they stand for. So, yep, they went in and they knocked down the pads and they got rid of the gang presence, and they sold out the land from underneath them, but now we\u2019ve also got to work on that underlying problem of what it is in those gang communities that those young men and women are looking for and how we can we replace that. And that\u2019s going to be, hopefully, part of the strategic intentions of the Government moving forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo we talked a bit about reducing gang intimidation and violence. There was some discussion on the legislation to ban gang patches, which hadn\u2019t come before the Justice Committee at that point, but now we are currently considering it, and I think we\u2019re doing a very good job on that too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EWe talked at length around retail crime and around how we were very, very concerned at the spike in retail crime over the past few years and what police\u2019s response had been to that. And it was actually very pleasing to see that some of the changes in the approaches of police towards the end of the last term of Government have actually led to a bit of a down-tick in some of those ram-raiding offences. And part of me probably suspects that when you take the individuals out of the communities who are doing those crimes, they can\u2019t do them. They\u2019re not there to drive the cars, they\u2019re not there to do the ram raids. So let\u2019s see how we continue to progress with looking at retail crime and supporting victims of retail crime in that space as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe committee covered off topics around youth offending, we looked at increases in cyber-crime, and also an interesting stat that came through during the select committee stage was that a good 25 percent of what police deal with now is family harm. And at the same time, there\u2019s also an increase in cyber-crime. So if you consider how different those two areas of policing are, it\u2019s going to present a real challenge to Governments going forward about how you resource those effectively. So that\u2019s going to take a good amount of leadership from the Government on that too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EWe spoke also around strengthening Police\u2019s relationship with M\u0101ori, addressing the activities of organised crime. We talked a little bit about recruitment of front-line staff and some of the challenges that are going to be there about making sure you get the right people into our police services, because we have high standards for our police and we want to make sure that we have the right men and women going through our police service. So I\u2019m confident that with the recruitment work that the police can do over the next three years, that will quite comfortably meet our targets around that. So with that, I will resume my seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9d1c952c3af4d0ba37b98cf49dc522e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9d1c952c3af4d0ba37b98cf49dc522e\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you very much to the chair of the committee. We had a good session, and the Commissioner of Police gave a good outline of all of the challenges. The key challenge that was sort of identified is that Police\u2014with a $2.2 billion budget, $1.7 billion of which is in staff\u2014is that they\u2019re facing into a 6.5 percent budget cut, so that\u2019s really looking at personnel. So we\u2019re quite keen to understand what is front line and what is not front line, given that context. I\u2019d just like a bit of clarity from the Minister in relation to that, I\u2019m a bit confused. Today, we established that it\u2019s for the commissioner to determine what is front line or not, but also the Minister today said that 111 call responders were not front-line staff. So I\u2019d just like to confirm if those 111 callers are front line or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn addition to that, I\u2019d also like to know whether authorised officers are front line or not. And in addition to that, also those who answer the 105 reports in communication centres\u2014are they front line or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022249b0b6087e4495b9a14cc16b560a48d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022249b0b6087e4495b9a14cc16b560a48d\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, can I just acknowledge the chair of the Justice Committee, the outstanding work that he does chairing that committee\u2014it is important; you have got a very heavy workload. I know that you\u2019re taking a very bipartisan approach and I think that\u2019s important with the type of legislation that you\u2019re dealing with because it\u2019s around public safety and security. Can I acknowledge him becoming an uncle again and I\u2019m hoping that Lachlan follows in his mother\u2019s footsteps into the police service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just do want to acknowledge our police force. Without a doubt they\u2019re doing an outstanding job protecting and serving our communities, and they\u2019ve done it under a fairly difficult set of circumstances, certainly in 2022-23, because we have seen a massive increase\u2014an ongoing massive increase\u2014in violent retail crime, we\u2019ve seen an increase in family harm incidents, and we\u2019ve seen an increase in mental health call-outs. That\u2019s put massive pressure on their services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EOne of the things, as the incoming Minister, that I\u2019ve been very focused on is making sure that we get the agencies responsible and the most appropriate agency to actually deal with, for example, mental health call-outs; being able to actually attend that and free up our front-line police officers to get back on their core role\u2014and that is the protecting and the serving of the community that they joined the police to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIn terms of the Hon Ginny Andersen\u2019s question, it\u2019s actually for the police commissioner. The police Minister does not interfere, nor does he or she have any say over how the police commissioner deploys his or her staff or how he deploys them operationally. That is for him. But the one thing that we\u2019ve been very clear about as the incoming Government is that we want to see resources pushed to the front line. She\u2019s right in that under the previous Government, in the 2022-23 year, there\u2019s been a big investment in numbers but their core funding has not increased; in fact, quite the opposite. They were asked to fund from baseline the competency service increment payment. It\u2019s an incremental payment that goes to police officers as they advance through their career and it recognises their experience. As an incoming Government, we became aware of that and I\u2019m pleased to announce for the member that we have decided that we would fund that, the Government would fund that again, that we\u2019d not ask the Police to find that from their baseline, which means that it\u2019s freed up more resources and more money to be able to support the additional numbers and their deployment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u0022daaeae46ad1b41c0bc33f2a8509e8483\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daaeae46ad1b41c0bc33f2a8509e8483\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. My questions follow on from some of the stuff that the chair of the Justice Committee, James Meager, brought up\u2014around the gang patches stuff. Now, obviously, we\u2019re looking at the former year rather than looking forward to the future. I really want to ask the Minister how he\u2019s found the existing gang patch ban to have worked. My understanding is that you can\u2019t wear them in public places, but the number of fines that are being handed out for the legislation that is currently in place does paint a picture of it being a very ineffective policy. So could you have a chat with us about how you reconcile that in your mind, and, I suppose, about the police officers that are being charged with enforcing the gang patch bans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EI mean, surely that\u2019s a really dangerous and difficult position to put police officers in, and just looking at the amount that they\u2019re being paid, particularly those starting officers, I mean, is that a fair and reasonable expectation to have on them? And is it a fair expectation to set with the public? If the existing bans are not being enforced and we\u2019re still seeing gang violence and we\u2019re still seeing that harm being created in the community, then how do we reconcile that fact\u2014that we\u2019ve got a police force that is unable to enforce the existing bans and future bans\u2014and that we are putting more police officers in danger through setting that expectation for them and for the public? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022261914e1218b462a8e8859830bf5ba0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022261914e1218b462a8e8859830bf5ba0b\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the member Tamatha Paul for the question. I think that it\u2019s timely, obviously with the legislation sitting in front of the Justice Committee, which she\u2019s a member of, and the fact that there is a lot of public debate around it at the moment, in terms of the gang patch ban\u2014not so much the dispersal notices and the non-consorting orders, but certainly the gang patch ban.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ELook, can I just say that I\u2019ve just recently come back from a meeting in Canberra with the state Ministers, and the federal, the Attorney-General, and their commissioners, and one of the bilateral meetings I had was with the Hon Paul Papalia and his commissioner, Col Blanch. He\u2019s the police Minister for Western Australia. Col Blanch is the commissioner for Western Australia. The legislation that we\u2019ve taken, which is the gang patch legislation, the dispersal notice, and the non-consorting orders are basically the legislation that that Government passed about 18 months ago. So the meeting, for me, was to get feedback and find out how effective that legislation has been in terms of suppressing the gangs and getting on top of the gang problem that they had in Western Australia. Overwhelmingly, the response that I got\u2014the feedback that I got from them\u2014is that it\u2019s been hugely effective. In fact, the day that we met, the front page of the main West Australian paper was running a story saying that the leader of the Rebels motorcycle gang had just left the gang because he was finding it too tough\u2014it was too tough to be in the gang, and he had left. That was\u00A0the\u00A0front-page story running in Western Australia the day that I met the Minister and the\u00A0commissioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI just want to give you a little bit of background and a little bit of context around why we felt it was so important to introduce this legislation. In the last six years, there has been a massive increase in patched gang members in this country. We have seen a proliferation of weapons. We\u2019ve seen gang members now that will carry weapons and are willing to use them. We see gang members that think they\u2019re above the law and that, if they come out and take over public spaces, they can abuse and intimidate members of the public. We\u2019ve even seen them go so far as to roll into our provincial towns, take over the towns, shut schools, and stop our kids from getting to school. We have seen a very permissive environment where these gangs feel like they can operate with impunity, and that has made not just the public less safe, it\u2019s made our front-line police officers less safe as well. These gang members do think they\u2019re above the law. They\u2019ve got no respect for our front-line police officers, and part of the legislation and the new tools that we\u2019re giving the police is actually going to give the police the ability to reassert themselves over and above the gangs and give the community that they serve a feeling that they control the streets, and not the gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo, when we talk about it being dangerous for our police officers to go out there and deal with gangs, I accept that; that has never changed. They\u2019re an organised criminal group, and they have a propensity for violence, but we have the best professional police service in the world, and they have a very strong and proud history of knowing how to deal with gangs. It\u2019s just that, at the moment, the gangs think they\u2019re running the show, and we\u2019re going to send a very clear message to them that they\u2019re not. And, by the way, when you actually start to get on top of the gang problem, not only is it safer for the public, it\u2019s safer for those police officers as well. That is why we\u2019re so committed, and why we feel it\u2019s so important, to have this legislation in front of the committee and to be part of our overall approach to public safety in our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002288faefa0058f405f8c5acb4af4e25dcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288faefa0058f405f8c5acb4af4e25dcd\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Look, I\u2019m just interested to learn a bit more about the Firearms Safety Authority. That was funded under the previous Budget\u2014Te Tari P\u016Breke. I\u2019m just interested to know from the Minister of Police: can he talk us through how the system would operate if it was to be moved out of police, and, in particular, how would the intelligence that\u2019s very vital for front-line safety\u2014if it was sitting in the Department of Internal Affairs, how do the national intelligence agency and front-line police quickly access intelligence about who may have attempted to buy a firearm? I\u2019m thinking of a scenario when an officer\u2019s approaching a house and there could have been a purchase that day that\u2019s been declined under the Firearms Safety Authority. If it\u2019s moved, how will that interaction happen to protect front-line safety?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022b85d6cd4de73457781c56cc2026e1d4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b85d6cd4de73457781c56cc2026e1d4e\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. As the member knows, that\u2019s an ongoing piece of work, but the one thing that I would say to her is that we are fully committed as a Government to making our country more safe, not less safe, and the police have got a huge role to play in terms of dealing with firearms and public safety. And whatever the model is once this piece of work is finished, Police will have absolute full access to all the intelligence, all the information that they need, to keep the public safe and to keep their front-line officers safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002234c945e9761e43f99f69b28a1545bead\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234c945e9761e43f99f69b28a1545bead\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. There have been reports that the cost of shifting Te Tari P\u016Breke out of Police into somewhere like the Department of Internal Affairs would cost around $100 million. What advice or reports has the Minister of Police received in relation to the cost of that shift?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022513dd1b24c96487c8c36a1086822ad4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022513dd1b24c96487c8c36a1086822ad4a\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Well, again, as I say to the member, that is an ongoing piece of work. No decisions have been made as of today. The Hon Nicole McKee is leading that piece of work with support from Police. We are making it very clear through that process that the access to intelligence and the ability for police to be able to do their job to keep the public safe and keep our front-line police officers safe needs to be enhanced, not degraded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022a35b503d69254dc99041484be1524b8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a35b503d69254dc99041484be1524b8b\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. In relation to intelligence, there\u2019s been a project that\u2019s been under way for a while within Police\u2014ReFrame\u2014which enables police to have access to good intelligence, technology, and using non-sworn to get back out on the street quickly. I\u2019d be interested to know if there\u2019s any proposal from the Minister of Police to pause or halt that programme of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6ea63a740d44dcfa598e9904039c1ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6ea63a740d44dcfa598e9904039c1ea\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. As the member knows, that\u2019s looking forward and that\u2019s Budget sensitive. What I would say is that intelligence is critically important to the efficient running of our police service, and they are constantly looking at ways of being able to increase that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u0022819e3a365e4d42209e376b6da895e030\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022819e3a365e4d42209e376b6da895e030\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou, e te Whare. E t\u016B ana hau ki te waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, \u0101, \u0113ngari m\u014Dku ake m\u014D t\u014Dku rohe o Hauraki-Waikato, me t\u014Dku tino \u0101wangawanga ki t\u0113nei K\u0101wana kaikiri me \u014D r\u0101tou take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[Greetings to you, and to us all here in the House. I stand to voice the opinions held by Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, but also for myself for my people of Hauraki-Waikato, we are very worried about this racist Government and their ways.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EMy question is to the Minister of Police; I have a series of questions. I have attended not one but three tangihanga, or funerals, within my electorate of Hauraki-Waikato, and I have been absolutely appalled with distress at the amount of police that have barricaded the local marae, and even more so the violation of discrimination to the wh\u0101nau pani, the family of the deceased, ones during a time of mourning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI am seeking answers from the Minister today on, firstly, what is the process for 60\u00A0police officers to attend a tangi? Secondly, how is it acceptable that 60 police officers can show up to a tangi, have armed checkpoints with M4s, then on burial day have an Eagle helicopter circling around the urup\u0101, or cemetery, as karakia commences, as they are lowering the caskets of their loved ones?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EWe have witnessed enormous amounts of police cars showing up to the streets of\u00A0marae to have checkpoints at tangihanga. This is completely unacceptable. These proceedings are highly discriminatory. I would like to seek clarity on the fact: do police\u00A0now have the authority to interfere in tikanga protocols, cultural considerations, and tangihanga? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EA majority of local police officers have a good relationship with their local communities, hap\u016B, and iwi. Our local police have been very apologetic for what has been happening and said it was a direction not from them but from Wellington. By police turning up to tangihanga in this way, which is completely disrespectful and culturally inappropriate, this will cause further pressure and distrust between mana whenua and police. What reassurance can the Minister give to this urgent, disturbing take [subject]?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002200a80193c1084a6691d19f5b75233b56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200a80193c1084a6691d19f5b75233b56\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the member for the question. Look, I can\u2019t talk in great detail to the examples that the member has used, but I guess if I could sort of give you an overview in terms of the approach the police are taking, I have to assume that they probably involved gang members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224720843214624f2b8f1f1608d09e2937\u0022\u003EHana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chair. I\u2019m just clarifying just so that constituents know at home, one of those tangihanga was a gang member - affiliated tangi and two of them weren\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022443443\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6d69b1c7ba44ea6a5846c4ce38a746e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6d69b1c7ba44ea6a5846c4ce38a746e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Point taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a87ae759897d4ae69a337e39d9422bf3\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. So, again, I apologise. If you give me the details, then I can definitely look into that for you, but I just don\u2019t have enough detail now to give you a detailed response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EThe only thing that I would say is that, personally, I\u2019m extremely proud of our New Zealand Police service. They are deeply connected with their community, and that\u2019s the entire community. But I think that probably what you may be seeing and witnessing is that a lot of these gang convoys have felt that they have the right to take over public roads. In fact, in your own area, there was a terrible example a couple of years ago where a gang convoy came around a father who was trying to get home and he was scared and pulled off to the side of the road. They pulled him out of his vehicle and they assaulted him so badly that he ended up in Waikato Hospital with a serious brain injury. I\u2019m using that as an example, because what they\u2019re doing is they\u2019re intimidating members of the public. They\u2019re taking over public spaces. Actually, I feel very strongly, as the incoming Government and as the Minister, that we should protect the rights of those law-abiding citizens and reinforce the law and remind the gangs that they don\u2019t get to just come out and do whatever they want. They don\u2019t get to come out and take over public spaces. They don\u2019t get to intimidate members of the public. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EI\u2019m only assuming that maybe what you\u2019ve seen or what you\u2019ve experienced is the\u00A0police trying to effectively manage those convoys in a public space. I\u2019d be very surprised if the police have come on to any private property, but they definitely would be dealing with that assertively, because that has been an expectation of this Government, but it\u00A0would be in a public space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u00229ea5a42de23b45c5a1f3d999c512dfcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ea5a42de23b45c5a1f3d999c512dfcb\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to the Minister for responding back to my questions. However, I do want to clarify that, yes, one of them had gang member wh\u0101nau, but two of them had absolutely no gang patches, no gang wh\u0101nau. It was just a normal tangi where people were attending, and, in one instance, the police officers weren\u2019t actually on the marae but on the actual street\u2014the beginning road of the marae. And the members had then been pulled up or there had been checkpoints, which I think is discrimination. Because there are no gang members there, there are no gang patches there, there is no affiliation to gang member r\u014Dp\u016B; it is just M\u0101ori people having a tangihanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ENow, I understand where the Minister is coming from. However, I think it is completely inappropriate for police officers to then discriminate, \u201COh there\u2019s a M\u0101ori tangi; let\u2019s go to that area.\u201D That\u2019s not right. And I\u2019m liking to get more clarification on not the gang members but the actual tangihanga proceedings: how would those proceedings occur in future for my local electorate of Hauraki-Waikato?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a506b57aabec4b90a70ed99f0452f10d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a506b57aabec4b90a70ed99f0452f10d\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. My first question pertains to some worrying numbers and trends in the annual report of the Police 2022-23. Despite victimisations going up nationwide from 155,000 to 185,000 in that period 2022-23 and given all the increases, as the Minister has alluded to, in ram raids, retail thefts, and serious and violent crime, is he satisfied that the net gain of full-time constabulary in the Auckland region fell\u2014well, there wasn\u2019t a net gain at all. Well, there was a net gain but not in Counties Manukau. Overall in the region, the net gain was\u00A0just five sworn constables, up from 2,929, across the Auckland region, to 2,934, despite the increase in victimisation and the offending, as I\u2019ve outlined. That\u2019s my first question, and what plans does he have around more police and more presence on the streets of Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EMy second question follows an appearance to the Justice Committee, as Chairperson Meager has pointed out, by the Commissioner of Police, Andrew Coster. I asked him about the success of the anti-gang policies and overall gang crackdown in Western Australia, and Commissioner Andrew Coster said, \u201CThey were quite successful in removing the visible presence of gangs in Western Australia.\u201D Does the Minister expect similar success with his anti-gang policies here in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022f56cb5a97a904fe7bb07aeb0c8443377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f56cb5a97a904fe7bb07aeb0c8443377\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. So starting with the last point first, yes. A big part of the reason why we want to remove gang patches and insignia is we don\u2019t want the public to be exposed to that and we don\u2019t want them being visible to the public. The police still know who gang members are\u2014they\u2019ve got very good intelligence; that\u2019s their business. They know who they are, but we don\u2019t want the public to be exposed to that anymore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIn terms of the numbers, there\u2019s a couple of things that we\u2019re doing. Obviously there\u2019s a commitment to deliver an additional 500 front-line police officers in the term of this Government\u2014the next two years. The other piece of work that\u2019s got going\u2014and it will take a bit of time, but we started it\u2014is trying to free up police resource away, for example, from mental health call-outs and back on their core role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIn terms of presence in Auckland, one of the things that I was very clear about as the incoming Minister in my letter of expectation is that we start to see more police out on the beat\u2014highly visible, developing those relationships with shopkeepers, knowing the patch that they\u2019re in\u2014and the police are responding well to that, from what I understand. I was certainly with Bruce Bird in Waikato, the district commander there, last week and they have had a big increase in foot patrols in Hamilton. I was in Tauranga the week before\u2014the same. I was talking to some retailers there and they said that it\u2019s given them a huge boost of confidence because they\u2019re actually seeing beat constables back out doing those foot patrols. It\u2019s a similar situation in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIn terms of the numbers, I think what that report reflects is the fact that if you go back to the previous Government, New Zealand First as a component part of that first Government wanted to deliver an 1,800 additional front-line police officers. The target date had to be moved back two or three times\u2014they couldn\u2019t actually achieve the numbers\u2014and then when the final numbers were reported to this House as being delivered, in actual fact probably maybe 300 but possibly as many as 500 of those were authorised officers. Authorised officers have a critically important role to play inside our police service\u2014don\u2019t get me wrong on that\u2014but they\u2019re not sworn officers out on the street that are able to respond to a member of the public putting their hand up for help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve got quite a bit of work to do in terms of being able to free up our police resource and get it back focused on the work they want to do, their core role; delivering the additional 500. I think that we will start to see a real difference in terms of visibility in our police actually doing what they want to do best and that is protecting the public they serve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0a95abf68204d9c8a4a376b3e44d221\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0a95abf68204d9c8a4a376b3e44d221\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I just have one more question on the Firearms Safety Authority. One example from overseas where it was moved away from Police into another department was Canada, and it did not work so well there. I just want some reassurance or commitment from the Minister\u2014if Nicole McKee, as the responsible Minister for that, makes decisions in relation to Te Tari P\u016Breke and if he has real concerns about the front-line safety of officers, particularly in relation to getting real-time intelligence in relation to firearms, will he make a commitment to step\u00A0up and speak out? Will he speak out if he has concerns about decisions being taken by the Associate Minister that may potentially endanger not only front-line officers but our community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00229f9ea70777934f19aed6275e2e9a6d7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f9ea70777934f19aed6275e2e9a6d7d\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that\u2019s my job. I mean, I\u2019m glad that the member highlights Canada, because, you know, I would expect and I\u2019ll make sure that officials are looking at that so that if there\u2019s lessons to be learnt from what Canada have done, we should be adopting and looking at those. But I just come back to the fact and just say to her and give her a commitment that, in terms of the way firearms are treated and dealt with in this country, this Government is committed to making our country a safer country. And a big part of that is the way that firearms are dealt with, and my commitment is to make sure\u2014police have got a big role in that\u2014that the police continue to have the ability to collect and have access to the intelligence and the information that they need to be effective to keep the public safe and to keep our front-line police officers safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002239b3a3f670824651bccd9684c724ccce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239b3a3f670824651bccd9684c724ccce\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Just in relation to recruitment and retaining police, police are able to take 10 wings consisting of around 80 recruits per year. I\u2019d just like to get the Minister\u2019s view. Is he concerned about the first two wings of the 500 new front-line police officers\u2014that wing 376 only had 58\u00A0recruits, and then wing 377 just had 61 recruits? What does this do to the forecast date for when that 500 new police officers will be reached?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022f697ac379de746b8afaa15019ca7434d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f697ac379de746b8afaa15019ca7434d\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Well, our commitment hasn\u2019t changed. We\u2019ve committed to delivering 500 new sworn front-line police officers in two years. And, look, the Police is doing some great work around the country in terms of recruiting. The one thing that they\u2019re very clear about\u2014and I fully support them\u2014is that there will not be any reduction in standards. The quality of our police force reflects the quality of our recruits and police officers. But, look, there\u2019s some very good work going around the country. I was in Gisborne a couple of months ago. They\u2019ve got a young constable there who is working with the schools in identifying year 12 and 13 students that they can get alongside of, give the training, give them the skills that they need to enter and enjoy a rewarding career in our New Zealand Police service. And the most recent graduations that I\u2019ve been at, Gisborne is constantly having four or five constables there. So there\u2019s some outstanding work being done around the country, and I\u2019m confident that solutions will appear in terms of delivering those 500 additional police officers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00223ee5c26754164b48af34c9de9334f95f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ee5c26754164b48af34c9de9334f95f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: More questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef0eb098b5a74cb6b7e1f0ffb3ab71b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef0eb098b5a74cb6b7e1f0ffb3ab71b6\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, if there\u2019s no one else\u2014just being fair. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. In relation to gangs, over the past six years, police have prevented an estimated $6.7 billion of social harm. I\u2019m interested to know if he has done any modelling into the estimated amount of social harm that police will prevent as a result of the changes outlined in the Government\u2019s coalition agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022df39f5f2e73845e595b7391d536a322d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df39f5f2e73845e595b7391d536a322d\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Well, look, I\u2019ve been given a good crack of answering a lot of these questions that are looking forward, not looking back over the review period. But in the spirit of what this is meant to be about\u2014and that is transparency and trying to give the best possible answers that we can\u2014I have been answering those questions. But that question that the member just asked is projected forward, not back. I would recognise and agree with you that the police do an outstanding job of reducing social harm, and I have no doubt\u2014and my expectations moving forward, in this term of Government\u2014that, as we free up their resource, as we actually give them more tools, as we give them the ability to be able to dig even deeper into those issues, then we\u2019ll continue to see very strong results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00225c5d5c878be049569f35fd6e34c688f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c5d5c878be049569f35fd6e34c688f8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just to support the committee, I\u2019ll get members to reflect on Speaker\u2019s ruling 147/2, and that is around when we do have future-focus questions that they\u2019ve got to be about progress against the strategic intentions of the plans and intentions of those organisations, and those strategic intentions are, of course, the annual review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00222a888495f2014ac8bdbd0a107394102d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a888495f2014ac8bdbd0a107394102d\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. So retail crime has continued to be a problem for our business community as well as our communities. Funding for the Retail Crime Prevention Programme was provided in\u00A0the\u00A0last Budget. Does the Minister have any intentions to halt or pause the funding of that\u00A0programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00223b6ad3cc2ba54d1cbbb595e2b4081628\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b6ad3cc2ba54d1cbbb595e2b4081628\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry, I was talking to the chair. Does she mind just repeating the last part of that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4169ed79cd14bc0b52b89761e2d09d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4169ed79cd14bc0b52b89761e2d09d8\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Retail Crime Prevention Programme: does he have any intention to halt funding to that programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00220bea9e5c05274476a08a5f50bc9ca305\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bea9e5c05274476a08a5f50bc9ca305\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E No, I don\u2019t\u2014anything to do with retail crime and getting on top of the violent retail crime in New Zealand is a huge focus for this Government. And if anything, we want to invest into that more, because there\u2019s a huge human cost to this and it\u2019s awful. And in my view, we\u2019re a small island nation, we\u2019ve got a lot in our favour in terms of trying to get on top and deal with this, and we should be, but that is going to require ongoing investment to make that happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9f4a48e30894ed98dd110c216a52a80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9f4a48e30894ed98dd110c216a52a80\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I was reluctant to take another call because I had a good crack at the start, but given the enthusiasm of the committee on this topic, I did want to look back a little bit. I wanted to ask a question about past resourcing of police, and in particular, in the technology space, and in and around this idea that if we can get our systems to work smarter and not harder, we can actually gain a lot of efficiencies and a lot of resource out of the existing resource that we have. The reason I raise that is because I didn\u2019t make a lot of contributions during the annual review debate\u2014I allowed members to have a pretty free-flowing debate back and forth\u2014but the one contribution I did make was towards the end. It might sound a little flippant now, but hear me out because I\u2019ve got a good train of thought going on this. It was around health and safety, and resourcing for our local police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe issue is that in my electorate, mid-Canterbury and South Canterbury, over the history of the past few decades, we have had about three or four of the top five temperatures ever recorded. So when you are a front-line police officer and you\u2019re operating in the middle of summer in those temperatures, wearing your full kit\u2014and the Minister of Police will know probably what it\u2019s like to wear some of that kit. I tried to carry a bit around when I visited Ashburton a couple of weeks ago, and after a couple of minutes of just holding it, I could feel the strain\u2014that was in an air conditioned office. So if you have our police officers running around in 38 or 39 degrees wearing this kit\u2014one of the suggestions from the police in Timaru was looking at different types of uniforms and looking at a summer uniform for some of our police officers in those areas where it is quite stifling, or looking at different ways of operating\u2014maybe they could remove their tactical vests sometimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe reason I come to that is because that is probably a question around resourcing. Every time we make a decision, we\u2019re going to have to make a decision on what stays and what goes. So I just wanted to ask the Minister if he\u2019s satisfied with the work that\u2019s happened in police so far around looking at where they can gain efficiencies, where they can use technology to replace some of the paper-based systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI visited Ashburton Police Station a couple of weeks ago and I met two pretty brand-spanking-new constables who\u2019d been in there for a couple of months. They love their job; they love being part of the police force. The one thing that surprised them was the amount of desk work that they had to do and the amount of paperwork they had to do. They pulled open a filing cabinet\u2014it was empty at the time, but they said, \u201CHere\u2019s where my next files are going.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo I just wanted to know if the Minister\u2019s satisfied with the amount of work that\u2019s happening, has happened in the past year, around trying to look at where we can gain efficiencies and use technology to operate in a more effective way, and if he has any strategic intentions moving forward about where we\u2019d go in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022773719111a694628a4fdd8e4acaebe70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022773719111a694628a4fdd8e4acaebe70\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, look, very good question. I\u2019m not sure I\u2019ll be very popular raising this, but there was a time when the part of the police uniform was walk socks and shorts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e62151e8213349a481b43d1cbb1cddfc\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, bring it back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ba0efd54bd648cabc2cd995a7cdb612\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure we\u2019re going back there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f269ced5aa84b53bc7c5b1039e5a873\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Show us the photos.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22940f29d2649ffa02302806d26f181\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Nah it wasn\u2019t in my era. But, look, you raise a really good point. There was a very big investment made into police back in 2013-14 in terms of technology. They got tablets and they got mobile phones. The reason for that is, obviously, we wanted a modern police force with the best technology available. And it was a big drive to the point that you raised: get them out of the office, allow them to be back out on the street, visible and back in the community\u2014and that was very successful. But the police have got an ongoing programme of always looking at updating, modernising the technology that they have. There is a big project under way at the moment around a new digitised communication system for police, for St John\u2019s, and for Fire and Emergency New Zealand. Probably, once that\u2019s delivered, we could probably broaden that out even further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003EIn terms of uniform, I agree with you. Police are constantly looking at providing a uniform that is functional, that police officers can feel comfortable in. I agree with you\u2014when you think about a hot summer\u2019s day and the amount of equipment that they are wearing, the core heats up pretty quickly. So it\u2019s trying to get that balance between making sure they\u2019ve got the protective equipment and they\u2019ve got the tactical equipment\u2014that it\u2019s functional and it\u2019s comfortable and they can work a whole shift without putting unnecessary strain on the body.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002246f2a182fe0d4a1eb0cdfd8c84b01b90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246f2a182fe0d4a1eb0cdfd8c84b01b90\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Now, I just wanted to clarify one point\u2014the answer the Minister gave before in relation to front-line staff and non - front-line staff. I understand that he said that is a clear decision for the commissioner to make, but then he\u2019s also provided the answer in a written parliamentary question, and today, that those 111 call responders are not front line. So if you could just reconcile those two different pieces of information, I\u2019d really appreciate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc4d00fb2fe140e989904b72e2521cc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc4d00fb2fe140e989904b72e2521cc1\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I just think that she\u2019s conflating the two issues. The first thing is the commissioner will decide what\u2019s front line. He\u2019ll decide where he deploys his staff and he\u2019ll decide the best use of all his\u00A0 resources and his staff. The member asked me as the Minister of Police what I would define as a front-line police officer and I said I consider a sworn police officer as front\u00A0line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1db8caf4fc74d2eb9cf841c30478e5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1db8caf4fc74d2eb9cf841c30478e5b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, our time with the Minister of Police has ended. The Minister of Local Government is now available for 30 minutes to respond to members\u2019 questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022adad3930e9de487a95673a4d3ec8e0c6\u0022\u003ELocal Government\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u002272c5a8cf9ec04ecea48a6c2c4b5aa808\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272c5a8cf9ec04ecea48a6c2c4b5aa808\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Chairperson of the Governance and Administration Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to kick off the debate this afternoon into the annual review of the local government sector. I just note that the annual review for local government takes part under the Department of Internal Affairs. This year, for the 2022-23 year, the Governance and Administration Committee undertook its first in-depth review of local government under the new Standing Orders. The Department of Internal Affairs has Government oversight for the regulation and guidance that is provided to local government by central government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ECan I thank the officials who provided advice to the committee throughout the hearing, and also to the committee members of the Governance and Administration Committee for their constructive and useful approach to the annual review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThere were a number of matters that we undertook to examine as part of the annual review, and I\u2019m going to note some of those now before we get into questions for the Minister of Local Government. The first was around the future of local government reform. Members of the committee will be aware that the Future for Local Government Review was established in 2021 to assess the ways in which local democracy and governance need to adapt into the future. The review\u2019s final report was published in June 2023 and included 17 recommendations. We noted that the Department of Internal Affairs had advised the select committee that the responsibility for the implementation of that review and its recommendations does sit with local government. But we did note that we would like to see stronger support and reporting into the work that the Department of Internal Affairs does to support local government on the ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWe also spent a lot of time discussing infrastructure. It will be of no surprise to the committee that the topic of investment in critical water services and water reform was a matter of reporting to the select committee, and I\u2019m certain will be part of today\u2019s debate and questions that are put to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EFinally, I did just want to make some comments around another matter that was brought to the attention of the select committee, around ongoing support and financing of local government. This is a matter of critical importance for central and local government to resolve, and the increase in rates that we see and the increase in debt that we see across local government is a matter that will continue to have an impact on ratepayers. It does fall to local and central government to work together to address how we can resolve the critical matter of how we fund the services and investment needed to run local government in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo no doubt it will be an interesting debate this afternoon. Again, I thank officials for advising the select committee, and I thank the select committee again for what was a very constructive look at local government as part of our first in-depth review of the Department of Internal Affairs. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022929c370c9b5349e08cb12ecc5cf68419\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022929c370c9b5349e08cb12ecc5cf68419\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. My question\u2019s around strategic intent, and it follows the Minister and the Prime Minister, along with the Mayor of Auckland, Wayne Brown, announcing the Local Water Done Well policy, an agreement unanimously reached by Auckland councillors that will avoid a 25.8 percent water rates increase on water users in and around Auckland this coming financial year. They were up for $348 per average household, and it will be a lot, lot less\u00A0than that. So my question looking forward is to the Minister in the chair, Simeon Brown: when will the broader range of structural and financing tools be available to other councils to ensure they can finance themselves appropriately and access the long-term debt required for investment into water services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022 data-id=\u00221c948e414ecd46c7bec9448cc05bfbc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c948e414ecd46c7bec9448cc05bfbc8\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to be the third member of the illustrious Governance and Administration Committee to ask questions today. I\u2019d like to ask more about the Future for Local Government report, He piki t\u016Branga, he piki k\u014Dtuku, which was issued on 16 June. I\u2019d like to ask: does the Minister agree, first of all, that our system of local democracy and governance needs to evolve? And which of the report\u2019s five identified shifts\u2014amongst those wider recommendations were five specific shifts: strengthening local democracy, especially increasing citizen participation; authentic relations between councils and hap\u016B, iwi, and M\u0101ori, enabling self-determination and shared authority; number three, a stronger focus on community wellbeing; number four, a genuine partnership between central and local government to coinvest and deliver wellbeing outcomes; or number five, moving from a constrained funding system to an equitably funded system that enables communities to thrive. So I\u2019m asking the Minister which of those five he thinks is the most important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc71146e38504f2db3e555f365758aad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc71146e38504f2db3e555f365758aad\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for the opportunity to take a call in regards to the annual review of local government. This debate, obviously, relates to the last 12 months, or the last financial year, so I will keep my comments within that, but, obviously, I will give some colour where necessary in terms of the direction this Government is taking. I thank the members for their questions. I thank the committee for its work on the review, and there has certainly been a range of issues that have been raised through the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe question from my colleague Cameron Brewer around Local Water Done Well, noting what has happened there. Obviously, we\u2019ve taken a very different approach from the last Government in terms of water; the last Government had a one-size-fits-all approach to water, and that ultimately ended up with them spending, I think, $1.2 billion in the last six years, mandating co-governed mega-entities or local councils across the country. Ultimately, the vast majority of councils rejected that approach, which is what we are doing through our Local Water Done Well approach, which we are delivering on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe second question is in relation to the future of local government review. Look, I\u00A0think the point I\u2019d make about that review is it raised a number of good points, but it ended up finding all the woke answers\u2014you know: \u201CWell if we\u2019re going to fix it, let\u2019s lower the voting age. That\u2019s going to solve the problems.\u201D, \u201CWhy don\u2019t we entrench the four wellbeings into local government. That\u2019ll fix it as well.\u201D, \u201CWhat about STV? If you just had STV voting, that will fix the problems that local government are facing.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWell, ultimately, that ended up with finding all the woke answers rather than actually dealing with some of those actual challenging issues, and then, effectively, said, \u201CWell if you just give more money, then that will solve all the problems\u201D, and that was the answer of the last Government. It was, ultimately, that if you simply just put more money\u2014I think I heard one of their former Ministers once say, \u201CJust appropriate it. You\u2019ll be able to fix all of the problems\u201D. So, ultimately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254eb36bf7f0c4cab9f22114f0cf6b51f\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Just say what you feel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204b249b3cd3c45138a41cab506573733\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I am saying exactly what I feel. I\u2019m saying exactly what I feel, Mr Jackson. Effectively, it was trying to also entrench co-governance through local government, which was another part of that report. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe question was: does the system of local democracy need to evolve? Well, I\u2019d say let\u2019s start with the word \u201Cdemocracy\u201D and let\u2019s ensure that people are able to have their say and that communities are able to vote and have their say, and that\u2019s the side of that\u00A0particular question that this Government stands on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0c10e6b773347be907210526e1da1b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0c10e6b773347be907210526e1da1b6\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Well, thank you for answering the previous question and giving your view of the independent report. I have a second question in a different area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is highly vulnerable to natural hazards, as the Insurance Council notes, and this is a matter that came to our Governance and Administration Committee. We cannot overstate the importance of risk reduction, readiness, response, and recovery. Dave Gawn, Chief Executive of the National Emergency Management Agency, recently spoke to us and said that the New Zealand Emergency Management System has been set up to manage small events, generally weather events\u2014not big catastrophes like the Hikurangi subduction or the Alpine Fault, which could be level 8 and almost unimaginable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m asking the Minister of Local Government for his thoughts because civil defence and emergency management committees are run by local councils with fire, police, and other organisations\u2014hopefully iwi, although you do wonder; they would be better to be woke than asleep in my view, when we come to emergencies. However, smaller councils do not employ any specialised civil defence and emergency staff, and, in addition, Fire and Emergency New Zealand have not extended their local advisory committees to all of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EDoes the Minister of Local Government have concerns that councils do not have adequate resources to fulfil their civil defence and emergency management duties?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u002273c7a6ec87fc48e7b187105af3c686c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273c7a6ec87fc48e7b187105af3c686c9\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019m keen to sort of ask a question the Minister alluded to in his answer previously; he talked about democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EBeing the MP for the Bay of Plenty, for the last three years we have had appointed commissioners at our local city council, at the Tauranga City Council, and so I\u2019m keen to know\u2014because that was an appointment from the previous Government and it was an appointment under this term that we\u2019re reviewing. They were appointed on 9 February 2021 through to the elections in October in 2022, to align them back to the local government elections, and then their appointment was extended to July 2024. I\u2019m keen to understand the Minister\u2019s priorities in the space around the return to local democracy and the use of appointed commissioners, and what he sees is the importance around the local community having their say for the people who represent them around the council table and the decision making being made on behalf of the local community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EIf we think about Tauranga, we\u2019ve got our local elections taking place in a couple of months\u2019 time and the community is ready to re-elect and to elect the council to represent them around the table and to be held accountable to the ratepayer. That\u2019s what the community, locally, in Tauranga, is keen to do. But they\u2019re also keen to ensure we\u2019ve got representatives sitting at that council with future direction, future forward thinking, so we can take our city\u2014the fifth-largest in New Zealand\u2014forward and have the prosperous city that we want to have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m really keen to understand from the Minister how he likes the use of appointed commissioners, what he views to have been under their term, and what he sees around the importance of local democracy and decision-making at local city councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1966678a02e4030a5fd2a537e2adf4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1966678a02e4030a5fd2a537e2adf4b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I thank the members for their questions. The question from Celia Wade-Brown around councils fulfilling their obligations in relation to civil defence\u2014and obviously that is a critically important role that councils have, alongside civil defence which leads the Government\u2019s response. It\u2019s really important that councils do play that role, and ultimately that\u2019s why my message to local government is to focus on the must-haves, not the \u201Cnice-to-haves\u201D. And so that\u2019s the focus that we expect from local government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn terms of the question around Tauranga and local democracy, we are committed as the Government to restoring democracy. We are not extending the term. We\u2019ve confirmed that the decision made by the previous Minister will remain unchanged, which means that in July this year the residents of Tauranga will be able to elect their own mayor and elect their own councillors and we will not be having some form of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216bee675e8d04b70a5640f59c9afdc30\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Hybrid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce04192850b440309d9fde6fac110afd\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014hybrid model, or commissioners in place alongside elected members. Ultimately, what we will be doing there is ensuring that the local community can decide who will represent them in that community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe wider question, though, around the role of commissioners\u2014so Part 10 of the Local Government Act does give the Minister of Local Government certain powers to intervene in particular circumstances, and, ultimately, where there are problems. And that is a process which, ultimately, I will reserve judgment on in terms of other councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022826fdca3fda84805971c60d3592a36fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022826fdca3fda84805971c60d3592a36fc\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just a couple of questions to the Minister over this whole democracy area. Would the Minister agree that we have seen quite a diverse set of councillors over the last year or two\u2014last couple of years? With the change in terms of M\u0101ori seats, we have seen M\u0101ori being given an opportunity that they have never had before. Would the Minister agree that in past years so few M\u0101ori would be able to get elected on to the council? So in the previous Government, obviously, we thought, \u201CWell, this is an opportunity.\u201D Now we\u2019re seeing record numbers. We\u2019re seeing Shane Jones\u2019 nephew, for instance, as the mayor up there in the North. You\u2019ve got a whole M\u0101ori board up there in the North\u2014opportunities they\u2019ve never had before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m asking the Minister, in all seriousness, did he see benefits in that? And if he did, how can we maintain M\u0101ori representation? Surely M\u0101ori have a right to be a part and play a part in New Zealand\u2019s democracy today, because there\u2019s been so few who\u2019ve been afforded an opportunity. So what are the Minister\u2019s plans in terms of giving M\u0101ori opportunities, giving them the chance to get on to the council? Is it just about returning to what has been done in the past, or is there some new, innovative, creative strategy that the Minister might be able to give us?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00221a1548da6fb84b7ca05b6584eb3bc544\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a1548da6fb84b7ca05b6584eb3bc544\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the member for his question. I note this is the former Minister who once famously said \u201Cdemocracy has changed\u201D. Well, I\u2019m not quite sure what he means by \u201Cdemocracy\u201D, but on this side of the House, democracy has not changed, because we actually believe in people of this country being able to decide who represents them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the issue of M\u0101ori wards, we are going to reverse the position to\u00A0ensure that local communities can make those decisions as to whether there is a M\u0101ori ward on a particular council\u2014that is about letting local voters actually make decisions. In some councils around New Zealand, I expect they will vote to retain those M\u0101ori wards, and in other councils they may not. That is ultimately about local communities, local voters, the public of New Zealand, the voters of New Zealand being able to have their say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EAnd he mentions Matua Shane Jones\u2019 nephew, Moko. Well, Moko is not elected as the mayor of the Far North on a M\u0101ori ward; he is elected as the Mayor of the Far North District Council in an open contest against every single other person who decides to put their name forward for elected office. That is how it is and that is how he got elected. Whether a council retains its M\u0101ori ward because the voters in that community decide they want it, or they don\u2019t, I am confident that more and more M\u0101ori will get elected to local councils up and down this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u0022a001893caa7d4a559a46fc7f76d45350\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a001893caa7d4a559a46fc7f76d45350\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d just like to ask the Minister, following on from the erudite questioning from my colleague the MP for the Bay of Plenty, Tom Rutherford, and the less erudite contribution from former Minister Willie Jackson\u2014we\u2019ve got a situation about democracy in New Zealand, and, as one famous commentator once said, \u201CThrow the buggers out.\u201D That\u2019s the real benefit of democracy; you can throw them out when you don\u2019t want them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EIn Tauranga, we have been unable to throw the buggers out. No matter what decision they have made, there has been no opportunity for the good people of Tauranga Moana to throw the buggers out. Well, I thank you for clarifying, Minister, that there will be full democracy returning to Tauranga in the elections on 20 July.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EBut I do have a question that I would love to hear you expound on, and that is, Minister: what do you think about what the commissioners, in their time as the leaders of Tauranga City Council\u2014what do you make of the decision the commissioners took to ignore a petition which was submitted to council with the required amount of votes to have a referendum on a M\u0101ori ward? What do you make of the commissioners\u2019 decision to ignore such feedback from the community and implement a M\u0101ori ward?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to also note that we are going to be having a M\u0101ori ward established in Tauranga, where there has never been one before, due to the decisions made by this commission. I\u2019d ask the Minister to reflect on what has happened here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2a4665bf8244760aa406b4f09f36995\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2a4665bf8244760aa406b4f09f36995\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge the question. Ultimately, the commission has the same responsibilities as an elected council to make decisions under the law. What I would say, though, in relation to the issue of the M\u0101ori ward, is that there will have to be a referendum in Tauranga. The legislation we\u2019ll be bringing to the House will mean that that referendum will have to happen between now and the next local government elections. Ultimately, that is when Tauranga people will be able to make their decision as to whether that ward stays or goes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u00222eb805cb2aaa4c5f9131d9c130c54557\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222eb805cb2aaa4c5f9131d9c130c54557\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I\u00A0thank you, Minister Brown, that I have the opportunity to ask a few questions, specifically around Auckland Council. You\u2019ve made the announcement with regards to the water increase percentage. Just a couple of questions, and my first question is: can you explain the financial sustainable model for the record to ensure that these rates will remain affordable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EMy second question is around infrastructure. As you\u2019re aware, Minister, the committee has had quite an in-depth discussion with regards to infrastructure investment in terms of local government. Specifically in Auckland, there have been many transport projects that have been delivered, especially walking and cycling. Can you explain, or can you highlight, that these will be continued as an affordable investment in local communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00226d00f94775154e5abcc47cc0fcd91096\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d00f94775154e5abcc47cc0fcd91096\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. This is a time-limited debate, and by our calculations, the National Party have roughly seven minutes remaining and there\u2019s three full sessions to go. So it\u2019s very disappointing to see the National Party using up their time with patsy questions that they could indeed just go and ask the Minister themselves and save the Minister\u2019s time to be able to answer questions. It would be a tremendous shame if we get to the sessions on Thursday and next week and Government Ministers simply don\u2019t have time to answer genuine questions. That would be a shame, indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019ll keep my contribution to the point, and, hopefully, the Minister will answer in the same vein. Does he agree with the Prime Minister that local governments just need to\u00A0\u201Cstop doing dumb things\u201D, does he agree that rating systems are currently unsustainable, and what is the projected credit rating of Watercare after the announcement he made on Sunday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225247f782a60748e2b030a052141f7181\u0022\u003ECelia Wade-Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ebf452eda7420686cce4552cfeceef\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ff50ea87b144bb9a62819004670caf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Celia Wade-Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cd742dcace44abab94a73bd1bf7bbfd\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022 data-id=\u0022e36d7d8e2dc543be96f4b22a3eae2131\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e36d7d8e2dc543be96f4b22a3eae2131\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E You\u2019ll get your turn, I\u2019m sure. Thank you, Mr Chair. The Future for Local Government report\u2014we heard much about a wider vision of democracy for local government that included citizen participation. Of course, councils do consultation, and many of us see that as part of democracy, not only a vote every three years. So if the Minister considers referendums are such a vital part of democracy, would he suggest that as well as for M\u0101ori wards, we have referendums on rates rises, cycleways\u2014why not?\u2014and a number of other things? We consult on these things at local government. Why is one issue of representation needing a referendum, and the number of councillors, the ward boundaries, and a number of other matters, apparently, don\u2019t need a referendum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00222c58f86c5f5247e680aec7ef18ef45f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c58f86c5f5247e680aec7ef18ef45f1\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. A number of quick answers to some questions. In regards to affordability of rates rises, in particular in the water context, in terms of\u2014we\u2019ll be introducing economic regulation to ensure that consumers are paying appropriate prices and to maintain investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EIn terms of Watercare\u2019s credit rating: obviously, this is a review going backwards. Obviously, I\u2019ll be very generous and answer the member\u2019s question, but, ultimately, that will be determined as part of its separation when that separation is finalised, as the member will know. He was responsible for this particular area not too long ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EHe tried to make the point that his plans were going to be more affordable. Well, the briefing to the incoming Minister from Entity A made it very clear that Entity A was not going to be in place by 1 July, which meant Aucklanders were going to have to pay 25.8\u00A0percent increases in their water rates if that Government had got re-elected. Thankfully, that didn\u2019t happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022cba7a1ccfc9a44189ff6fcc6ff0847e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cba7a1ccfc9a44189ff6fcc6ff0847e3\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. It\u2019s extraordinary to hear those sorts of responses. But I do note that he didn\u2019t answer one of my questions, so I\u2019ll repeat it: does he agree with the Prime Minister that all local government needs to do is to stop doing \u201Cdumb stuff\u201D, and does he agree that the rating system as it stands is currently unsustainable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5abecb6fb2d4f13be2263e04e238b9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5abecb6fb2d4f13be2263e04e238b9c\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I would agree that councils should not do dumb stuff, and also, when you think about it\u2014and I just made the point earlier\u2014we want councils to be focused on must-haves, not \u201Cnice-to-haves\u201D, and that\u2019s exactly what we\u2019re doing as a Government. We\u2019re doing the exact same thing, as Government, going line by line to ensure that the focus is on the must-haves, not the \u201Cnice-to-haves\u201D, because we\u2019re in tough economic times. We have had an inflation bomb left behind by the last Government and we\u2019re trying to deal with these challenges. Local government is dealing with these same challenges, too, and so the focus needs to be a focus on core business and must-haves, not \u201Cnice-to-haves\u201D, and to stop the dumb stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u0022e35cadfb5a7d412caeb6a1b6c3e85894\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e35cadfb5a7d412caeb6a1b6c3e85894\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Well, we\u2019ve heard a lot in the debate so far, particularly around the structure, and I\u2019d like to tap not just into structure but infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EIf we think about structure, thinking about councils and how they are formed, how they are funded, how they are elected, how they operate\u2014and we\u2019ve spoken briefly on the local government review that was done last year. The future of local government\u2014particularly around the suggestions of, for instance, giving 16-year-olds the vote and changing the mandate or the requirements for people to be elected to Government, and maybe the Minister has some views on what the future really looks like. But I\u2019d like to move from the structural to infrastructure, because there are 17\u00A0recommendations, as the member for the Greens mentioned, in that report. Many drop in the word \u201Cwellbeing\u201D every second sentence, but none around infrastructure, none about actually delivering the quality roads and pipes and opening up opportunities for development that people need if they are indeed to have any wellbeing at all. Nowhere in that is there a focus on delivering public services, which I think is a key function of local government. And so I\u2019d be really interested to hear the Minister\u2019s views on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EFor example, in our region, in the K\u0101piti Coast, where I represent, the good people of Mills Albert would have been out there replacing our pipes. We\u2019ve brought on water meters. We don\u2019t want to be lumped in with Wellington metro when it comes to three waters. Actually, we believe in autonomy, but we do believe that there needs to be a focus on infrastructure. If I think about in Horowhenua, where we\u2019re building an entire new suburb\u20143,500 homes\u2014it needs roads, it needs pipes, it needs connection, it needs the ability to develop. That\u2019s how wellbeing comes, not by adding it to a report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d be really interested to hear from the Minister what he thinks the future of local government looks like. I\u2019d be really interested to hear his views that came out of the report on things like forming new Government departments, new entities, new bureaucracy, if\u00A0that is indeed the answer, or if we need a focus on world-class infrastructure. Do we need it on world-class infrastructure, on delivering public services rather than these mandates for new Government entities and bureaucracy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00227a560ab1b75f4b5788ba30dfdf221f26\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a560ab1b75f4b5788ba30dfdf221f26\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, our time with the Minister of Local Government has ended. The Minister for Oceans and Fisheries is now available for 30\u00A0minutes to respond to members\u2019 questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EMembers, just for members\u2019 information, usually at this point we have someone nominated from the select committee to give a non-political summation of the annual review process\u2014usually that\u2019s the chairperson. So do I have an honourable member from the Primary Production Committee to give that non-political summary of the annual review process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002239d4a195f3c14d3dab9db5e822ce7dd3\u0022\u003EOceans and Fisheries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u00223275f8c14a73470298d556ec00e6dceb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223275f8c14a73470298d556ec00e6dceb\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I will stand up from the Primary Production Committee and speak to the annual review that we went through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224edb3c37a3c94bd2aa36f956bdf3947a\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s the chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240e650590f504249b05deeec0d6e96b7\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not the chair of the Primary Production Committee\u2014no,\u00A0I\u2019m not, but the chair doesn\u2019t appear to be in the Chamber currently\u2014but I am a very strong member of the Primary Production Committee and I have had a very long involvement in the past six months on the Primary Production Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EBut we certainly went through the annual review and I would like to acknowledge our members of the Primary Production Committee for all their input on that annual review with the Ministry for Primary Industries. It was a long, long review where we looked at many areas, and particularly in relation to fisheries and ensuring that we have a very strong export industry. This was a lot of the focus of our annual review when it came to the Ministry for Primary Industries. We looked at many areas around trade and export, and looking at the Government\u2019s objective of ensuring that we double our exports in the next 10 years and looking at ways that we would do that by doubling the value of our exports in the next 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EPart of that was ensuring that our food producers are more equipped, and that is also looking at our fisheries sector, where we want to ensure that we\u2019re making some amendments to the Fisheries Act 1996. The changes on that included clarifying commercial fishing rules that set out which fish must be brought back to port and which fish can be returned to sea. Looking at on-board cameras was another area where, you know, we looked at ensuring that we are better equipping our fishing industry to ensure that we can fish in our waters and ensure that we have this high-value, added-value fisheries industry and making sure that it is sustainable as well\u2014a very, very important focus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EWe talked about some of our areas\u2014me coming from Hawke\u2019s Bay, we have a strong fisheries industry there, which is really, really important to support that industry. But also looked at, you know, areas which are restrictive around fisheries, and bottom trawling was another area that we also discussed through the annual review process. We had a few comments that were made from our Minister for Biosecurity and Food Safety, and the Associate Minister of Agriculture as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EBut particularly looking at our fishing industry, the Ministry for Primary Industries highlighted two pieces of work regarding bottom trawling in New Zealand waters, and they consulted on a lot of this. So those were areas that that we focused on. But also, I think one of the main things is to look at the fact that we have got this great resource here in New Zealand and we\u2019ve got a great resource, you know, around in our waters and we\u2019ve got potential to add a lot of value to our fishing industry and ensure that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c51c4c122114af1856dfe37ab820de8\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, like was spelt out in the industry transformation plan!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d674cffcacc4f23859e4e6c77fc039b\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: No, but this is what was spoken about during the Ministry for Primary Industries annual review process and the fishing aspect of it because, you know, we spoke about a lot of things during that annual review. But fisheries is certainly acknowledged as an important export for New Zealand, and there\u2019s a lot of great work going on there. And I would like to acknowledge the Ministry for Primary Industries for a lot of the great work that they\u2019re doing in this area and for their vision and focus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003ESo on that note, I think we\u2019ve got a lot of opportunity and it was great to speak about that as a committee, and it was great to be on the Primary Production Committee really focusing on our New Zealand fisheries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2b329b9e8134291a3e506f84f102219\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2b329b9e8134291a3e506f84f102219\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d appreciate the opportunity to ask questions of the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EMinister, after the industry fought for so long against cameras on boats, we found that when the data came in on the 127 vessels with cameras, there was significant under-reporting: a sevenfold increase in dolphin interactions, a 350 percent increase in albatross interactions, and an almost 50\u00A0percent increase in discarded fish volume. When will your review of cameras on boats be completed? And will you extend the programme? That\u2019s my first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ESecondly, are you concerned about a company that is wholly owned by the fishing industry\u2014FishServe\u2014taking control of camera footage from commercial boats? And who will have access to that footage\u2014the Department of Conservation? And how often will they have that access? That\u2019s my first tranche of questions, but I would also like to talk about the bycatch kill limit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EMinister, you removed the fishing-related mortality limit (FRML) on sealions just recently. My question is: if, as the industry claims, the sealion exclusion devices are working, surely, then, there is no need to remove the limit, because it won\u2019t be reached? Secondly, will you consider setting a fishing-related mortality limit for leatherback turtles, following recommendations of a recent National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research report? And, on what basis did Fisheries New Zealand set the fishing-related mortality limit for M\u0101ui dolphins\u2014i.e., why isn\u2019t it set over a period of time, like other FRMLs? And will the Minister release the underpinning advice? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00226ec59cff799f476d949ee98b6e2cb435\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ec59cff799f476d949ee98b6e2cb435\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Chair. I have a number of questions, but I\u2019ll start with a couple of them. The first is in relation to cameras on boats\u2014to the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries\u2014whether specific advice has been given to him about the future of cameras on boats, and, if so, what is the nature of that specific advice? I think it would be also very helpful for the committee to understand from the Minister what has been learnt, from his perspective, as a result of having them on board. I\u2019ll just start with those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u002266337830cf4c4ea688d5529f693efd4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266337830cf4c4ea688d5529f693efd4d\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Greetings to members of the Primary Production Committee and thank you for those questions. As a few words of introduction, sadly, this is a sector of governmental and economic activity riddled with apocryphal falsehoods. The fishing industry is not going out there plundering, plaguing, or targeting rare and endangered species. It grieves me to hear\u2014in fact, it reminds me of the milky flesh disease when I listen to the member from the Green Party suggesting that the industry, number one, is not telling the truth. The modelling carried out by the officials behind me is not too inconsistent with the recent results, and the camera initiative is all about the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOn the question as to what the future of the camera roll-out is, a number of boats will be focused on and the cameras will be affixed to them, and at that point we\u2019re going to have a taihoa and ascertain who\u2019s going to pay for this, and, if it\u2019s a public good, then how the public is going to pay for it. We\u2019re not going to have this commercial sector continually burdened down with a host of compliance costs preventing it from generating the necessary economic dividend to pay for our schoolteachers, our police men and women, and to meet the costs of our schools and hospitals. Neither are we going to have a situation where the footage associated with the cameras is continually chased up by these busybodies, these meddlesome third-party interests who want to further stigmatise the existence of a proud industry. So to be very, very clear, I\u2019m not going to continue with the perfidy of the last regime. I campaigned against cameras, but that was unsuccessful, sadly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOn the matter of FishServe, FishServe is a legitimate, legal, and, indeed, existing company with enforceable obligations. One of the options that will be investigated is\u00A0how more of the responsibility of cameras can be delegated down to FishServe. I\u00A0hope, at some point in time prior to the next election, as my officials work with us to enhance and optimise the outcomes from a better fisheries management system, to take and\u00A0place before my colleagues\u2014in our drive for greater relief in terms of regulatory burden\u2014an option as to how that burden might be shared between the State, and, if it\u2019s good enough, for the National Animal Identification and Tracing programme to\u00A0not be fully, fully covered by the Official Information Act. I\u2019m exploring how that can be emulated with cameras.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9f6d72293e042aca77fd6962d5c8d75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9f6d72293e042aca77fd6962d5c8d75\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Can I ask the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries if he\u2019s able to elaborate on the time frame around his thinking around the next steps around cameras on boats, given that he\u2019s indicated what his general sense of direction is. Moving to industry transformation plans (ITPs) and what he sees as the state of those ITPs: what learnings can be taken forward as a result of that exercise of pulling all of that information and people\u2014not just the info but the people\u2014together to put in place an industry transformation plan; and whether he agrees or not with David Wilson, New Zealand First\u2019s Upper Harbour candidate, who said at the pre-election World Wildlife Foundation debate that he agreed and celebrated what the ITP was for the sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EMy final question in this particular phase is around\u2014the annual review talked about the fact that fisheries was seeking more accessible information. My question to the Minister is: what does that mean, what does it look like, and what can people expect as a result of having more accessible information being made available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6e2d702e4b6412ebef6b19c03fdb4b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6e2d702e4b6412ebef6b19c03fdb4b7\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries for his time. Perhaps the Minister could enlighten the committee a little bit further on the technology that, especially, the coastal commercial fleet has implemented over the last few years and speak to, if he\u2019d be so kind, the changes in net technology\u2014the fact that it has gone from a four to a five to a six, from a diamond to a square\u2014especially in the mid-water fish space, and, by virtue, the technology that has embraced, taking into consideration the bycatch limits and how onerous it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ECould the Minister also, if he\u2019d be so kind, enlighten the committee of the rigours, especially, that the coastal commercial fleet suffers, of operational cost, and how that is\u00A0affecting the table fish market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc13a3ddf1bd4e00bbc468d27bd7b7ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc13a3ddf1bd4e00bbc468d27bd7b7ac\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to ask the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries about the South Pacific Regional Fisheries Management Organisation. Despite our nation, New Zealand, having put through a proposal for a 70 percent protection of vulnerable marine ecosystems, including seamounts\u2014which was actually a descent in the proposal of the whole body, for 100\u00A0percent protection; we reduced it to 70\u2014after the change of Government, we refused to submit that proposal and in fact Australia had to submit it. New Zealand backing out from this was a cause of some significant annoyance to the United States and to Australia\u2014to the extent that Australia considers it should now treat New Zealand as an opponent when it comes to managing fisheries in the South Pacific. Apart from the international embarrassment of this, my question is: is the Minister committed to the South Pacific Regional Fisheries Management Organisation? Is the Minister committed to a Pacific-wide marine protection strategy? And as a general point, is the Minister committed to marine protected areas at all? Has the Minister given any instruction to the Ministry for Primary Industries on marine protected areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c80978ca80bf4bb6a9bbb50d2c80c04a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c80978ca80bf4bb6a9bbb50d2c80c04a\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E A very quick response: the member Steve Abel correctly identifies that our Government did change our stance in respect of the South Pacific Regional Fisheries Management Organisation, although that relates to the fact that we\u2019re not going to carry on with this indiscriminate destruction of our fishing interest in international waters, as was a hallmark of the last regime. We won\u2019t be having any of that. Neither will we pay any attention to MPs standing up here invoking provisions from overseas trade deals as if it\u2019s some type of bludgeon to undermine the\u00A0democracy and the sovereignty of our legitimately elected Government. We\u2019re not tolerating and we\u2019re not agreeing with the outsourcing to overseas jurisdictions as to how\u00A0we should run our resource management programmes. Go and talk to the Spanish about their own fishing outcomes before you lecture the matua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00220604e13545584b949c31cff579c06a25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220604e13545584b949c31cff579c06a25\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Still interested in the Minister\u2019s thoughts around the industry transformation plan for the sector\u2014it\u2019s still a question that is yet to be addressed. And also\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c084f9ad1c449a9978c4dd43298f00f\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: And the taiao?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299c08aa79647476498b8b5192d65f55d\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the taiao approach of cameras on boats and when we can expect to see the next step in that particular phase of the Minister\u2019s thinking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI just wanted to touch on this issue of the South Pacific Regional Fisheries Management Organisation and ask the Minister what the current position is regarding the\u00A0proposed bottom fishing management boundaries\u2014but, in particular, the role that New\u00A0Zealand scientists were involved in in developing those boundaries and what might\u00A0be seen by some as world leading, and whether or not the Minister supports them as scientists in their approach or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u002215f9d5f439a3415e8c1ddb69ed09d832\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215f9d5f439a3415e8c1ddb69ed09d832\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I wanted to repeat the question to the Minister: have you given any instructions to the Ministry for Primary Industries on marine protected areas? Have you given any instructions to Ministry for Primary Industries on marine protected areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022491a643b683a46178c210bb454589f53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022491a643b683a46178c210bb454589f53\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Minister, if I make a statement\u2014and I\u2019m pleased with a yes or no\u2014do you agree: do you agree that the coastal commercial sector has innovated significantly over the last 10 years to try and alleviate bycatch? And what does innovation look like, to try and nullify some of the concerns on the political left?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u002259e51445757b49828a881d95cd2cf49b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259e51445757b49828a881d95cd2cf49b\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you for the opportunity to ask the Minister a question about Ma\u014Dri fisheries. There is a bill going through the House at the moment which is essential to creating a regime which is fit for purpose now, so that Ma\u014Dri can realise the value of fisheries assets and unlock the economic potential of that not only in the regions, but everywhere around Aotearoa. Ma\u014Dri fisheries are really important and I want to ask the Minister why he is proposing to\u00A0change what is a bill that was supported by iwi M\u0101ori, worked on by the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that used a cross-partisan approach, that dealt with stakeholders for a number of months and engaged deeply with those stakeholders, and is it because the Minister is\u00A0only taking advice from Te Ohu Kaimoana? And is the Minister acting in the interests of Te Ohu Kaimoana?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce8cc325926644bda2508f6a5e7b5150\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce8cc325926644bda2508f6a5e7b5150\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, references to innovation within the fisheries sector is beyond cavil. Sadly, the fisheries sector is plagued by a whole host of dangerous and hurtful allegations on a regular basis, heard here every week in this House. Well, they are clapping in the streets because they know they have a champion in my good self. Innovation will be supported. It doesn\u2019t necessarily mean we stay with exactly the same template of an industry transformation plan. Indeed, four times a year we are engaging with the senior figures of the fishing industry to effect better outcomes between the civil service, myself, and them. As indeed I\u2019m doing it with oil and gas, as I\u2019m doing a similar thing with minerals\u2014in particular coal. So I don\u2019t think anyone should imagine that the zest to develop better innovation outcomes has diminished.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EAnd the final thing I\u2019d say about M\u0101ori fisheries: the member makes a very good point: I have no interest in disfiguring the progress forward for M\u0101ori fisheries but neither do\u00A0I\u00A0want to set up a host of opportunities for M\u0101ori and for them to argue with each other; I\u2019d rather see them mend a net, catch some fish, and make some money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u002277f22b54879249448c08e6f5fe7184d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277f22b54879249448c08e6f5fe7184d7\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E If the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries is correct in saying that he wants M\u0101ori to be able to progress their interests in developing their fisheries rights and sharing that with iwi who benefit from settlements, then isn\u2019t the first version of the bill which came to this House, which had cross-partisan support, and will be enduring, a better option than what has come back and has been proposed, essentially, by Te Ohu Kaimoana to suit their interests in the status quo?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u00224a71edb7ea4e490290dfb8cd67752c3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a71edb7ea4e490290dfb8cd67752c3a\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. In 2023, the New Zealand orange roughy fisheries ORH 3B, responsible for 80 percent of the catch, lost our Marine Stewardship Council certification\u2014an important marking point to the United States and\u00A0EU consumers. Evidence showed that the fishers were having to trawl for longer yet still not catching more fish, suggesting depletion and spawning aggregations had disappeared or were severely reduced on seamount areas and had been heavily trawled. The only seamount that showed some positive signs for the fish was one that is closed to trawling. The implication is that the extent of the exploitation was meaning that there would be no\u00A0sustainable orange roughy, because we\u2019d fished it to oblivion. How is that sustainable for the industry, let alone the environment, and what does the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries intend to do to ensure that New Zealand fisheries remain actually ecologically sustainable and viable? And to that point, has the Minister given any instructions to the Ministry for Primary Industries on marine protected areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa4fdd7036d14704a710fa9118ae68c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa4fdd7036d14704a710fa9118ae68c9\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E On the latter, I\u2019m aware that the Minister of Conservation has a bill wending its way through the House. My level of interest in that is not particularly strong, but it\u2019s not my statutory role. I, as you may have worked out, sir, am here to enable the industry to boost the dividend within the parameters of sustainability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EOn the question of orange roughy, I\u2019m advised by the officials, on searching for the answer in this mammoth midden heap of paper, that in 2023-24, orange roughy 3B was reduced by 40 percent. The system works in this very simple way: scientists establish\u2014and I\u2019m talking about robust, genuine science, not these lib pen-pushers\u2014genuine enforceable justiciable figures, and the politicians, like myself, act on that. But we have no time for these lib pen-pushers who write all this green diatribe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfc03fc1a7124d7581887a73cff38a34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfc03fc1a7124d7581887a73cff38a34\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. We\u2019ll try third time lucky. We still haven\u2019t had an answer from the Minister to industry transformation plans and the time frame for the taihoa on cameras on boats. Perhaps he\u2019s still looking through his mammoth heap of paper there to find the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ECan I move to the Oceans Secretariat. I\u2019d like to put to the Minister: what has motivated him to, essentially, disestablish the Oceans Secretariat and how does he expect that to impact the fishing industry and the health of New Zealand\u2019s oceans, respectively. And, in the absence of such a secretariat, what resources does he foreshadow the Oceans and Marine Ministers Group will need to make informed decisions that will ensure the long-term resilience, but also the long-term health, of ocean and costal ecosystems, including the role that fisheries would play within that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u002206ea3cd9bbe34b07ac72d5b441dd8609\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206ea3cd9bbe34b07ac72d5b441dd8609\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Minister, I appreciate you commenting on the Minister of Conservation\u2019s opinion on marine protected areas, or something to that effect. But I\u00A0wonder: have you expressed any opinions on marine protected areas to the Ministry for Primary Industries? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0225f98d4754794986bbd289c3596b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0225f98d4754794986bbd289c3596b6\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E I realise that time is running out, and this is obviously an important feature, because marine protected areas, marine reserves, r\u0101hui areas, m\u0101taitai areas, and tai\u0101pure areas are a key feature of marine-based resource management. That role, obviously, rests with my officials to study the various demands and needs. If you\u2019re asking me \u201CTo what extent is that a priority?\u201D, you\u2019re asking the wrong guy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u0022c30bf6cc24a649d0ba4455f804060311\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c30bf6cc24a649d0ba4455f804060311\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E So I understand that our seafood exports are going to increase, hopefully, to around $2.3 billion by 2024. Obviously, that drives a lot of productivity here in New Zealand and that\u2019s something that we\u2019ve discussed a lot on the Primary Production Committee. And obviously there\u2019s a lot of\u00A0potential in our fisheries industry to add a lot of value and drive some of this productivity. What\u2019s your vision in that area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u002200cfead1573941bebe7faf5cc94610c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200cfead1573941bebe7faf5cc94610c7\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Minister, can I, for the sake of the question, help you illuminate\u2014or you might be able to illuminate this further\u2014the difference between the coastal commercial fleet fishing and the deepwater fleet, the disparities in technology. And for the former Minister\u2019s benefit, maybe some of the cost structures therein in terms of the roll-out of cameras on boats\u2014the technology\u2014what it looks like in terms of implementation, and the distinct difference between table fish market and the export market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u002251857e6555b84010bf7fcace3612d30a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251857e6555b84010bf7fcace3612d30a\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Sadly, the cameras issue was conceived without true appreciation of costs, but it\u2019s driven and propelled by an ideology which is very hostile to the flourishing of the fishing industry. Sadly, that was allowed to carry on uncontested. But wait, taihoa, help is on the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003EIn reference to the member\u2019s question from my right\u2014yes, we are seeking to boost the profitability of the fishery sector. To that end, four meetings a year are happening between the key leaders. They are finding common ground that will include\u2014that will include\u2014options not to increase levies during the next two or three years, and to learn to live within a shortened piece of cloth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003ETo that end, it\u2019s important we work out how the industry can not only profit but how the industry can work more effectively with the State\u2014maintain their social licence, but curb the incessant upward pressure on levies and other costs that are being imposed on industry in New Zealand. So the question to my right was a very clever question, and given that we will be addressing the uncertainty around the permits associated with aquaculture, you will find there will be a greater level, percentage-wise, of wealth coming from aquaculture over the next 5 to 10 years. Details will be revealed very, very soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd92c22e034c4095bea47c18a386e445\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd92c22e034c4095bea47c18a386e445\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Minister, given the recent article in the Sunday-Star Times this weekend of the footage of the efficacy or otherwise of the SLEDs, the sea lion exclusion devices, will you release that footage or instruct that that footage is released for public scrutiny so that we can indeed assess the efficacy of the SLEDs? And, in that regard, I wanted to repeat my question: why remove the bycatch kill limit for sea\u00A0lions, if indeed the SLEDs are working? Surely there is no need to remove the limit, because it won\u2019t be reached. And will you bring, in pace, a similar mortality limit for leatherback turtles? Those are the two follow-up questions. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u00223264014065224ddf8f47b1b76293c57a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223264014065224ddf8f47b1b76293c57a\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Just before we wind up, there is no great threat to sea lions. I trust the quality of advice coming from our officials. They are not driven by politics, ideology, such as the member who\u2019s just resumed his seat. And, similarly, there is no great threat from the technology which has been deployed to enable the sea lions to escape when they may, from time to time, encounter harvesting activity. And I\u2019m not interested in the wittering of that lady from the Otago university\u2014irrelevant to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u002207c6f148d29b4e4ebacf8c9e4282eb1a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207c6f148d29b4e4ebacf8c9e4282eb1a\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Can I ask the Minister around the suitable use of fishing stocks but also around the question of allocation. What has been the direction of travel for the three types of fishers\u2014the commercial, customary, and recreational fishers\u2014and whether or not we can expect, with him as Minister, to see any changes regarding stock but also allocation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002299cd6703533b40ba848b184a4255dc5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299cd6703533b40ba848b184a4255dc5e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: There don\u2019t appear to be\u2014Steve Abel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022bae215313ff14ecb8dbd86aacc63980b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bae215313ff14ecb8dbd86aacc63980b\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Never to miss an opportunity, Mr Chair. I guess I\u2019ll repeat the question: will you release the footage that proves, or otherwise, the efficacy of those seal protection devices? What are you afraid of showing; what is the industry afraid of\u00A0showing? If that footage is available, it can be scrutinised independently and it can be assessed. If you are so certain of the advice, what is the harm in releasing that footage, Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5f5941e912343ed86481c9383bd86be\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (Parliamentary Under-Secretary to the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. My question to the Minister: could he inform the Chamber as to what is the response to the roll-out of the camera programme? What is the response from many of the skippers on the boats that have these cameras?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4824afaea644b3fa7bf20ad2aaf47cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4824afaea644b3fa7bf20ad2aaf47cb\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Obviously, the existence of the footage in respect of the sea lions issue does not rest with the Crown. Obviously, the footage that is referred to associated with the cameras has enabled the officials to better test their models\u2014and they\u2019ve found that their models are remarkably accurate. But let no one think in this session that that footage is going to be surrendered to people who have as their motivation the delegitimisation of fisheries. That\u2019s just not happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022690c2fab43154b54bbcb4a073f6add17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022690c2fab43154b54bbcb4a073f6add17\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The time with the Minister has expired. I\u2019d invite an honourable member to move that the committee report progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022b748dea379144811a2bb0ca038851184\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b748dea379144811a2bb0ca038851184\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the committee report progress on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022968487e46d5f4c6e990f1099f30f7b5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022968487e46d5f4c6e990f1099f30f7b5b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Appropriation (2022/23 Confirmation and Validation) Bill and reports progress. I move, That the report be adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b8ed75d96a84229b2cc01051c8ab412\u0022\u003EImmigration (Mass Arrivals) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002247c5943964cf481499303d8bd5639075\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000575\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 2 May.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022196ec80cf89841f7b11e6a52b9d7c3f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022196ec80cf89841f7b11e6a52b9d7c3f6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, this was the second part of a split call. It\u2019s a National Party call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u0022735249d153be453e8f1d1a133a9add10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022735249d153be453e8f1d1a133a9add10\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Good evening, Madam Speaker. This evening, I have the opportunity to speak on the Immigration (Mass Arrivals) Amendment Bill. For me, this bill is about three things. First, it\u2019s about ensuring we manage risk both to the security of New Zealand and, therefore, New Zealanders, and to those genuinely seeking to escape persecution in their home country; second, this is about due process, affording the judicial system and immigrants from mass arrival more timely access to legal advice and representation and for their applications to be considered; and, thirdly, this is to acknowledge that this Government is pragmatic and able to take a considered approach to decision making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EWe started in a position of opposition to this amendment bill when it was first presented by the previous Government. However, now, after having won the Government benches, we\u2019ve been able to access further information, some of which was previously considered confidential advice from officials. Taking this into consideration, we are now in a position of support for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EAlthough there is a low likelihood of mass arrivals to New Zealand, we\u2019re living in a fool\u2019s\u00A0paradise to assume that it won\u2019t occur. Quite simply, a failure to plan is a plan to fail.\u00A0This bill is not about scaremongering and misinformation. It is not about saying that\u00A0immigrants are dangerous to this country. It is also not about imprisonment. This bill is about mass arrivals of immigrants to our shores, not one by one, but in a group at one time and without any permission to be here. It is simply about legislation that allows New Zealand to strike a\u00A0balance between detaining any mass immigrant arrivals and their right to access legal advice\u00A0and representation to support their applications to stay in New Zealand. More time to\u00A0undertake this process is not a negative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EWe are a nation of immigrants. Our arrival to this beautiful country started some 800\u00A0years ago and continues to this day. This amendment bill will allow this to continue in a considered and humane way, allowing those that have a desperate need to leave their\u00A0home for reasons that we, as New Zealanders, will hopefully never experience: war, political instability, and the targeting of specific groups. This bill is about protecting their\u00A0rights along with ours, and having a right to put forward a case to remain in New\u00A0Zealand\u2014again, in the unlikely event of a mass arrival. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EWe all know our district courts are under significant case load pressure, and allowing more time will reduce the risk of additional pressure if any mass arrival group was to arrive on our shores. In addition to this is the already well-known court system pressure. We have limited capacity of appropriately qualified lawyers capable of representing any such group. Currently, there are only around 40. Therefore, the current time frame is entirely impractical as security and health screening checks are likely to need significantly more time to complete. Allowing more time will ensure that judicial decision makers are afforded all the information needed to make a fair and considered decision which has taken into account every relevant piece of information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003ETo finish, I would like to reiterate that whilst initially as a party we did not support this amendment bill, once we had all the information at hand enabling our support, we\u2019ve made sure to expedite this process. Why, when the previous Government had introduced this bill, did they not continue the process and finish the legislative pathway? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003EBut, rest assured, not only are we adult enough to reconsider our previously held position on this amendment bill; we will actually do something that will seem refreshingly original, given the previous administration\u2019s record of non-delivery. We will finish the job and deliver. We are back on track. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcc0086b54044afa80e77036841d6fed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcc0086b54044afa80e77036841d6fed\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Notwithstanding the need that we agree exists to have a framework in place so that in the unlikely event of a mass arrival, there are arrangements in place that allow the orderly processing of asylum seekers and a process that fairly respects their rights, we do recognise the concerns raised by the refugee and human rights advocates at select committee, which were overwhelmingly critical of the bill, and we do recognise that they made arguments that need to be taken seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EAs a result of that, Labour is supporting this bill to the committee of the whole House stage on the condition that four additional safeguards that officials drew up and that were presented to Cabinet after the select committee process under the former Labour Government are incorporated in the bill as amendments at the committee stage, and I\u00A0want to touch on those. The first is that there must be an amendment that establishes that prior to a warrant of commitment being issued, a member of a mass arrival group may be detained in premises approved by the chief executive of the department, except in a prison or police station, and that\u2019s very important. It was our Government that\u00A0commissioned Victoria Casey KC to investigate the practice of detaining asylum seekers in criminal justice facilities and in corrections facilities, and found that to be\u00A0contrary to New Zealand\u2019s international obligations under international law for the\u00A0treatment of asylum seekers. It\u2019s a very, very important principle that they are not\u00A0held in prisons or police stations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ESecondly, the legislation must require an immigration officer to establish, in making an application for a group warrant of commitment, the following: why the proposed detention is necessary, that the detention sought is for the least amount of time and is the least restrictive necessary to achieve the outcomes of detention, how the proposed location of detention meets the Government\u2019s obligations under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and how the proposed location of detention meets New Zealand\u2019s obligations under the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, which is the piece of international law that governs the rights of asylum seekers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EIn addition to that, the law must require an immigration officer to report to the court weekly\u2014unless varied by a judge\u2014during a period of warrantless detention of a mass arrival group. So that is in the period from the arrival through to the warrant of commitment. Finally, a judge may order that the location specified in an application for a group warrant of commitment may be varied on his or her own motion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWe believe that those additional safeguards are necessary, and we are exploring other possible amendments that will meet the concerns that have been raised by the human rights community about this legislation. One of them, which I think is worth considering, and which I hope the Government will consider, is the idea of this legislation specifying that in the event of a mass arrival, the Government will undertake with an independent organisation\u2014that could be the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC); it could be the Ombudsman\u2014to put in place a memorandum of understanding that would deploy someone from one of those independent organisations to regularly inspect the conditions and the treatment of the detainees. It is something that the ICRC do internationally. It\u2019s part of the role that they play, and we believe that it would be a valuable addition to this legislation. I think there are other things that I hope we\u2019ll have the chance at the committee stage to explore that would put some limits around the time that asylum seekers who come here as part of a mass arrival can be held, and reduce the amount of time that they are in detention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI think the House would agree that it is a very low-probability scenario of a mass arrival to this country, but it is not a no-probability scenario. There are precedents in Canada of steel-hulled ships being used to transport, by people smugglers, a mass group of would-be asylum seekers across the ocean that landed in Canada. There has been a case that was believed to be on its way to New Zealand. It\u2019s not entirely improbable that this country could have to face up and deal with a mass arrival, and it\u2019s very important that we have arrangements in place that allow those people to be looked after and processed, but their right not to have their liberty taken away unnecessarily and without due cause must be protected. That is essential, and I believe that if we make the amendments that I\u2019ve set out and put those safeguards in place, we can achieve that. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed521b09a9ec4b028059284b420a2ed4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed521b09a9ec4b028059284b420a2ed4\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the second reading of the Immigration (Mass Arrivals) Amendment Bill. The purpose of the bill is clearly to just be prepared for the unbelievable potential mass arrival of asylum seekers. As unlikely as this is, we have to be prepared, because we as a country don\u2019t want to not be prepared in the event of it actually arriving. People say, \u201CWell, what\u2019s the likelihood?\u201D Yes, it\u2019s very low, but we just have to look at the history of this great nation of ours and the original settlers, whether they\u2019d be M\u0101ori or European, arrived here by boat. They travelled for very long distances in themselves. You can extrapolate that out, where people could come from many parts of the world to come here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ESo why would they want to come here? Well, when you look at some of the desperate situations around the world today, you begin to see why people would want to leave the situations they\u2019re in and why they would then look to a country like New Zealand\u2014even though it is a very long way away from anywhere. Because we are well recognised with human rights and all that sort of thing, and being very, very good to people. So, in particular, they could easily end up coming in and landing in the northern part of the country, into Northland, an area which has got plenty of coastline. And then we have to be ready and prepared to actually deal with these people and handle them appropriately when they get here, because it\u2019s a fraught journey from very, very long distances. I mean, we only have to look at the world\u2014there\u2019s lots of people in very desperate situations and these people are prepared to pay people large amounts of money to come here. So the case, I think, is definitely there\u2014it is very unlikely, but we have to be, as a country, prepared.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ECurrently, the rules don\u2019t allow for a well prepared, professionally managed handling of mass arrivals. One of the key things we have to look to do is give ourselves time to process people professionally and properly. Because these people are highly likely to come here and they will be stressed, they could be dehydrated, they\u2019ll have high health needs, high psychological needs, really, really challenging journeys. It\u2019s a long, long way to get here, even if\u2014like, the distance from here to Australia is a long way, and of course we\u2019re likely to see them come from much, much further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ESo we have to be prepared and give ourselves the legal framework to detain these people in a way that is both humane and allows us to look after them. It\u2019s really, really\u2014\u00A0e have to look after them very, very carefully. I mean, when people come on long journeys like this, we might have to give them specific healthcare, we\u2019d have to make\u00A0sure that when they turn up we can then feed them properly and look after them in a way that we all will be proud of as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ESo, currently, we\u2019re looking to change the rules so that if an application is made within 96 hours of the initial arrest and detention, the court must then determine this application as soon as reasonably practical and within seven days. If the court considers that this is\u00A0not reasonably practical to determine the application\u2014the number of people we\u2019ve got\u00A0to deal with\u2014then they can extend it out to 28 days. This is a huge improvement. It\u00A0gives everyone time to deal with these things, because you don\u2019t just want people suddenly being released into the wider country. That\u2019s what all our laws allow. That would not be ideal at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve talked about the risks, the challenges of getting here, and then the challenges of dealing with a mass arrival when they do actually get here. One of the things is that you also need the right people to help these people when they get here, represent them; they want and need good legal representation. It\u2019s been noted by many that, in the country, there are only currently around 40 lawyers who are qualified to deal with this. So if we had a mass arrival of several hundred people, this would take time and we\u2019d have to give them due process. So we need to make sure we give ourselves proper time to be completely professional about how we go about this, so that we are seen on the world stage as being humane and fair and reasonable about this sort of thing. Because we want to maintain our reputation as a country, which I think is very, very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ESo the bill, when it came through the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u2014obviously this happened in the previous Parliament, and I was not part of\u00A0that previous Parliament. I came in on the last Parliament after winning the seat of\u00A0Northland, which\u00A0was a great experience. That\u2019s why I can talk about the potential of arriving into the Northland coastline, because I drive around the edges of it quite a\u00A0bit\u2014some of the best coastline in the country, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39103d4fd4243b2a431e8e9dc7b2e41\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: No, Southland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fc74a0c4c1444c49a4173b9e8df3fa6\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, you wouldn\u2019t want to swim in Southland\u2014you might freeze. So we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a68700c4348c485a878e2d3cbd59b243\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s pretty nice; you need to come to Riverton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200ff16cb975c47578829d8c196c4e082\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m getting lots of good advice here, but that\u2019s all good. So when\u2014I\u2019ve lost my train of thought, completely lost my train of thought. So, anyway, when they do arrive here, we\u2019ve got to look after them and maintain our reputation as a great country, a free and reasonable country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been concern about holding people in prison, and let\u2019s make this very, very clear: there is no expectation and there has never been any expectation that ordinary members of a mass arrival would be held in a prison. And I note the comments from a member across the House who highlighted this issue\u2014and he\u2019s right to highlight the issue. We\u2019re talking about a humane detention, not being put in a prison. Because that is not what anyone in this country would necessarily envisage, all right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019re working through the process now. So this came through the last Parliament, and I was not part of that select committee process, but I understand that there are more than 300\u00A0submissions. The actual select committee at the time was made up of three members of Labour, a couple of National MPs, and a Green MP. They heard a number of submissions\u2014obviously, over 300\u2014and they worked through them and they recommended back to the House what they should do. National at the time decided that they would not support it at that time, but once coming into Government and being very pragmatic about things, we took some good advice and actually we could see the benefits of actually working through this process and actually passing this into law so that we would be prepared. It\u2019s really, really important that we are prepared. So it just shows that we are a Government that can be pragmatic and sensible, and we are prepared to work with an idea that we need, and with policy and legislation that the country needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ESo the question is: why are people so concerned about the future of mass arrivals into our country and elsewhere? Why is it concerning about mass arrivals? Because, actually, we don\u2019t want to create a situation where\u2014we want to respect people who make those distances, travel, all those things, from very, very desperate places. We want to treat them properly, look after them when they get here, make sure that we work them through a process. If we\u2019re going to settle them, we can use places like the M\u0101ngere Refugee Resettlement Centre, which has been managing people like this, refugees, for a very, very long time, and has got lots of experience in dealing with people with trauma, with mental health issues\u2014you can just imagine how tough this would be for people when they actually come from all around the world, in a desperate situation, then to land in a country where they\u2019ve got no idea what it\u2019s like, they cannot necessarily speak the language, which would be a real challenge. So we\u2019ve got to have interpreters and professional people who can actually deal with these sorts of situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ESo it was with great pleasure that I finish my contribution to supporting the\u00A0Immigration (Mass Arrivals) Amendment Bill in its second reading. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022707d21d4dcdd4a6a96ae68bf1df99cd1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Immigration (Mass Arrivals) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000605\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7072911ce8f475189fdb91a81dc6147\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d83c8a5-2f48-4991-9c45-b1a6060daedd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7072911ce8f475189fdb91a81dc6147\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Regulatory Systems (Education) Amendment Bill and the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022763c7d64f50b4f2896503d281831ef47\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002230b30885125142789bf4142be280b40b\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227fb866640dc949d6a06c5fe2ed503aa3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fb866640dc949d6a06c5fe2ed503aa3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee for consideration of the Regulatory Systems (Education) Amendment Bill and the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022880b39ecc5af4749991ae0a7a87a8000\u0022\u003ERegulatory Systems (Education) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b373ac98003945c6abcf2784de9df427\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022364f2be360f94a509a13e27e3e8de62e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022364f2be360f94a509a13e27e3e8de62e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We come first to the Regulatory Systems (Education) Amendment Bill. Members, we start with Part 1. Part 1 is the debate on clauses 3 to 7, \u201CAmendments to Ngarimu VC and 28th (M\u0101ori) Battalion Memorial Scholarship Fund Act 1945\u201D, and Schedule 1. The question is that Part 1 stand part. The question is that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1f06a2260a94767911b2f4a435d6ef9\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7267bb0f17848688e81831f34f8c3ac\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry\u2014Catherine Wedd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u00222c3d5e59de01485ea075707b1d6aa3b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c3d5e59de01485ea075707b1d6aa3b7\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Ah, no; Katie Nimon, in fact. But that\u2019s all right. It happens almost every day, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ff4c14cbf2949239bf9fc248e8c2a4b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, at least I got a name!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4d46e63a2d848cfba084716da8be43c\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON\u003C/span\u003E: I move that the bill be\u2014sorry, I\u2019ll just get my wording right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ebc1f585a6440438702e03212e820b7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: You seek leave for all provisions to be taken as one question, I believe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b17112a81d5243b381a13f661aac678a\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, thank you. I seek leave for all provisions to be taken as one question. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcfbc0ed677d41458d707d48169fe381\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcfbc0ed677d41458d707d48169fe381\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002247d2101e5be44659b372e667c6a6b1e6\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 3, Schedules 1 to 3, and clauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4412b2602104ec6a8e4f3791295080b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4412b2602104ec6a8e4f3791295080b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Parts 1 to 3, Schedules 1\u00A0to\u00A03, and clauses 1 and 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00228251dd3342854c8e8fe5f268eace0b5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228251dd3342854c8e8fe5f268eace0b5a\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. On behalf of the Hon Erica Stanford, the Minister of Education, whose name this bill is in, the Regulatory Systems (Education) Amendment Bill makes minor technical amendments to maintain the effectiveness of our regulatory system. It\u2019s an omnibus bill, which makes changes to two education Acts: the Ngarimu VC and 28th (M\u0101ori) Battalion Memorial Scholarship Fund Act 1945, and the Pacific Education Foundation Act 1972. As well as updating these two Acts, the bill makes technical amendments to two sets of regulations that impact the education sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe Minister does have an Amendment Paper on the Table that relates to the Pacific Education Foundation Act amendments. The Pacific Education Foundation Act provides for the Pacific Education Foundation, which is a statutory entity established with the purpose to promote and encourage the better education of Pacific peoples in New Zealand, including administering different kinds of support such as financial support and scholarships. This change updates clauses 9, 11, and 15 of the bill, to revert the term labelled \u201CPacific person\u201D in the defined terms of the Pacific Education Foundation Act, rather than proceed with the previous Government\u2019s proposal to use the term label of \u201CAotearoa Pacific person\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThe coalition Government will support retaining the current term label of \u201CPacific person\u201D in the Act rather than the proposed new term of \u201CAotearoa Pacific person\u201D, so there is an Amendment Paper on the Table which simply makes that very minor change to ensure consistency of language, and I look forward to members across the Chamber supporting that Amendment Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u0022de87c8ed194846e393a50a4d89f17e5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de87c8ed194846e393a50a4d89f17e5f\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Look, I just want to know, now that we\u2019re considering it all in one question, whether or not, with the section that we have talked about\u2014the Ngarimu VC fund\u2014with the proposed amendments, the Minister in the chair, Simeon Brown, considers that there are any great changes that we can see long term, or whether this is sort of a fairly minor amendment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00227ebf95cec173473f851cba00d2721a7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ebf95cec173473f851cba00d2721a7e\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E The proposed amendment which is on the Table affects clause 9 primarily in terms of\u2014it replaces the definition of \u201CPacific person\u201D by removing the word \u201CAotearoa\u201D from before \u201CPacific person\u201D. Effectively, there is no substantial change in terms of the legislation, but it reverts the terminology to that\u00A0which is currently used in the principal Act to describe the class of persons eligible for\u00A0financial assistance under the Act. Effectively, what the previous Government was doing by creating a new term \u201CAotearoa Pacific person\u201D was creating a new definition which, of course, isn\u2019t used in other legislation. The legislation will be, basically, consistent with other pieces of legislation which refer to \u201CPacific persons\u201D rather than \u201CAotearoa Pacific person\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EOf course, there\u2019s a very clear, different definition: \u201CPacific person means a person who is living in New Zealand and who\u2014(a) is a New Zealand citizen or has been granted permanent residence or has been permitted to enter New Zealand with the intention of gaining permanent residence; and\u2014(b) has indigenous Pacific cultural heritage from a place listed in Schedule 2\u201D. New Schedule 2 is in the bill, of course: \u201CAmerican Samoa; Cook Islands; Federated States of Micronesia; Fiji; French Polynesia; Hawaii; Kiribati; Nauru; Niue; Papua New Guinea; Pitcairn Island; Rabi; Rotuma; Samoa; Solomon Islands; Tokelau; Tonga; Tuvalu; Vanuatu; Wallis and Futuna\u201D. Those are the Pacific cultural heritage, or the places which have been listed in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003EThere are a number of other clauses. Clause 11, again, deletes the word \u201CAotearoa\u201D in section 5(a); clause 15 deletes it from clause 15(1), page 6, line 6. So that very clearly outlines a very minor and technical change to make sure it\u2019s consistent with other pieces of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00221e5d32c9f86d46a4b192fbbe50091129\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e5d32c9f86d46a4b192fbbe50091129\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e39011f8a60f47a9bebd94c6210294b2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it dinner time? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222371a3b1ed63458484a66bfe8b25fde0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222371a3b1ed63458484a66bfe8b25fde0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the time has come for me\u2014you looked like you were about to make a speech, Mr Bates. I thought it may have been a closure motion. However, I anticipated that wrongly. So the House is suspended now until 7.30.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.02 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cab728881deb48f5b3dd9871ebbfd4ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cab728881deb48f5b3dd9871ebbfd4ba\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, members, the committee is resumed. This is just a reminder that all parts are being read at the same time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u002258c9d18c77f048a0b1b5b1733a73a9c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258c9d18c77f048a0b1b5b1733a73a9c6\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now\u00A0close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00220d326ca6bea24255b00a2250326e1719\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d326ca6bea24255b00a2250326e1719\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Apologies, I do still have questions of clarification, if that\u2019s permissible\u2014thank you, Mr Chair. Just one very technical question of clarification. First of all, I would like to preface this by saying my apologies: I was not here for the first reading of the bill when it was first introduced. But just checking in terms of clause 17 in the bill, which inserts new section 35 in the Pacific Education Foundation Act 1972 , \u201CAmendments to Schedule 2 by Order in Council\u201D. This is just a clarification in terms of subclause (2) of new clause 35: \u201CAn order made under this section is secondary legislation\u201D. I just want a little bit of clarification: does that mean there is secondary legislation coming, or is there secondary legislation already available? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022482e45870dcc41fb9e5db2d6ba1898b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022482e45870dcc41fb9e5db2d6ba1898b2\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move that the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022511e9f4581054707aa5b0895558a7116\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Ask a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f110c88cbbf43cfb7512a5600376161\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Ask a question? All right, we\u2019ll ask a question then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226925800fb80e4009acb0711f7644ef4e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Ask a question, yes, because the Minister\u2019s still trying to get some advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fea39933d28459ca5bec50533e3fba3\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, she\u2019s still trying to get\u2014well, I\u2019m happy for her to take the call once she\u2019s got the advice, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022145c49b7f39a4a828ec605ee3d10a2a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022145c49b7f39a4a828ec605ee3d10a2a8\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan for his question and I\u2019m just confirming that that is secondary legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u002287a5b8ef7d684a3481717152b38b9ce7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287a5b8ef7d684a3481717152b38b9ce7\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve got a question for the Minister of Education, just regarding the confirmation of the scholarship fund succeeding the 28th\u00A0M\u0101ori Battalion Association. I\u2019m just wanting to clarify exactly what the purposes of\u00A0administering the fund and authorising the use of the words and emblems relating to\u00A0the\u00A028th M\u0101ori Battalion and association is for, and why we are going about creating that confirmation to succeed the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion and what the purpose of doing that within the Act is. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c75c6c05623045ad8a87757778788ccc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c75c6c05623045ad8a87757778788ccc\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for his question. Look, the scholarship fund is incredibly important to honour the memory of the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion. I was recently at their award ceremony, where many incredible young M\u0101ori were provided with a scholarship. It means a huge amount to them to carry on the legacy of the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion. The reason for this legislation is to make sure that they are legally able to use the emblems of the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion, because there has been some question in their new form, their new entity, whether or not they have the legal right to use those, and this just clarifies that they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00224f79ba7bee364116aa5273a5d186b768\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f79ba7bee364116aa5273a5d186b768\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Minister, I\u2019m going to ask a quick question, and then go from there. Does that cover all emblems that the M\u0101ori Battalion may be using across\u2014you know, all varieties or variations of that emblem, or just the emblem as per Schedule 1 of the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00224235ca43e5a243b1b39a341d48a5f701\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224235ca43e5a243b1b39a341d48a5f701\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I can confirm with the member that that\u2019s all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00229d28ce57843c437db2a80123288ab3c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d28ce57843c437db2a80123288ab3c8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: All emblems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00221f7ea047cc8842c2b18905ee05e4024d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f7ea047cc8842c2b18905ee05e4024d\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002289df574ee5e442aa96ccc9748757bcb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289df574ee5e442aa96ccc9748757bcb0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00225671101d8aed459985de8469264404a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225671101d8aed459985de8469264404a8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments set out on Amendment Paper 29 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EParts 1 to 3, Schedules 1 to 3, and clauses 1 and 2, as amended, agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220735a0b9fb2040478bcb6fa581905dcc\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6798307a7d544efacd9bae23dfaf6cb\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c319492653da47f0b759e64ba7997be2\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, the Schedule, and clauses 1 to 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7ea58dd35b74f0fa5394cd8124b8e58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7ea58dd35b74f0fa5394cd8124b8e58\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill. Members, we start with Part 1. This is the debate on clauses 4 to 9, \u201CAmendments to principal Act\u201D, and the Schedule. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00221443460332f4402482c6e2286da5616b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221443460332f4402482c6e2286da5616b\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave that all parts are taken as one\u00A0question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002202ea62ad806747a5ba2d36b6dab406ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202ea62ad806747a5ba2d36b6dab406ee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that purpose. All those in favour say Aye; to the contrary No. The motion is agreed to. The question is that Parts 1 and 2, the Schedule, and clauses 1 to 3 stand part. If there are no calls to be sought, the debate will end. So if there are calls to be made\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9f632fc162c4be88ac0dacfaa674b7e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9f632fc162c4be88ac0dacfaa674b7e\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E So we\u2019re asking questions on this bill to enable the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to invest a larger portion of the ownership of particular businesses, and we recognise that the New Zealand market is a small market and that the Superannuation Fund has grown substantively over a reasonable period of time and is now in a position where it is unable to take minority positions in sufficient numbers of companies to fully utilise all of its funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EI just want to understand if the Minister has any idea on the number of companies that passing this amendment would enable the Superannuation Fund to expand its investment into as part of the Government\u2019s focus on ensuring that we can grow a more productive and value-adding New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EObviously, the Government is under some challenge to grow the size of the economy, and thus needs more productive and engaged businesses, and this amendment is working to support that objective of the Government and ensure that we can have the sort of investment that we need into companies to enable the growth in the economy. So the second part of my question is whether or not the Minister has any indication of the number of those businesses that would be able to be invested in by the Superannuation Fund, should this amendment bill be passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EThe second part of that question is whether or not the Ministers had any indication of the degree to which investing in those businesses would help to grow the New Zealand economy should this amendment bill be passed. I think it\u2019s really important that we have clarity on both of those questions so that we can be assured that passing this amendment bill will support the Government\u2019s legislative agenda, will support the growth in this economy that we need to see, will support an increase in productivity, and that the bill will achieve its aim by expanding the mandate of the Superannuation Fund to take a majority stake in businesses, that the bill will achieve its underlying objective of supporting that economic growth through enabling it to take these positions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m really interested in understanding if the Minister has been able to take advice and has those specific numbers on both the number of companies\u2014now, that might be by\u00A0value, that might be by number of employees, that might be by industry. All of those variations, I suppose, would give us insight into the impact that the Superannuation Fund being able to have a wider investment mandate, being able to take these majority positions, would have for the New Zealand economy. I think it\u2019s important, when we\u2019re asking questions about this bill at this stage, that we have that sort of clarity so that we\u00A0can assure the public that the Government\u2019s agenda of delivering on growth in this economy and growth in productivity will be achieved through increasing the Superannuation Fund\u2019s mandate to take these majority stakes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EComing from a background in supporting our boards of directors to appoint directors and run good boards, I think it\u2019s really important that we understand the sort of companies that this bill will enable the fund to invest into, because if we don\u2019t have good leadership, both of the fund and of those companies, then we\u2019re going to have a real challenge in delivering on that mandate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EBut I know the Minister will have clear answers. Just to clarify both of those questions, one was the number of companies that the Minister understands that passing this bill will expand the mandate for the Superannuation Fund to invest into, and secondly, whether there\u2019s any indication of the growth in the New Zealand economy that that might achieve by enabling that investment to occur here onshore, rather than overseas. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec9388cd264f4305aabdb09332e32672\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec9388cd264f4305aabdb09332e32672\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E A very quick call Mr Chair, just to point out that this bill came back from the select committee unchanged and with unanimous support from the select committee. So there is very little to debate and the objective of the bill is not something where the Government should be telling companies what to do, but it just gives the New Zealand Superannuation Fund a little bit more scope to make more investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a very simple, straightforward bill, and a bill that this House already, via the select committee, you know, agreed to in its first formation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022be15fae1505e4de2b762f6d39eeda25f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be15fae1505e4de2b762f6d39eeda25f\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill is a great bill, and I think there\u2019s wide acceptance across the committee that things need to change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI have a question around the Guardians having independence in their investment decisions. I think it\u2019s really important that the House and New Zealanders actually have confidence that the New Zealand Superannuation Fund will invest in companies based on the fundamentals of those companies and their business cases rather than trying to seek a\u00A0political objective. We did hear in the second reading, from some of the speakers at least, about ESG goals\u2014that is environmental, social, and governance goals\u2014which, in my view, cloud investment decisions. In fact, what we\u2019re seeing, as I\u2019m sure the Minister will\u00A0be aware, is entities such as BlackRock Investment, which are the champions and the\u00A0global leaders in ESG investments, have been losing funds. Their returns are down, and they\u2019ve been losing investment from the private sector putting money into that, because of those poorer returns that they\u2019ve had. And it\u2019s because they\u2019ve been trying, of course, to focus on things that are not related to the fundamentals of the company concerned: what are their business cases, are they going to make money, do they have a clear objective?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWhen they start clouding it with objectives other than what the company is set up to do\u2014let\u2019s say it\u2019s an investment company in the energy sector\u2014what are they trying to do there? Would they forego an investment in a company that might build a gas \u201Cpeaker plant\u201D, for example\u2014that would keep the lights on but would not necessarily meet ESG requirements, because it would emit carbon dioxide as a result of it running to keep the lights on, but would be a very good business case\u2014and instead say, \u201CNo, we won\u2019t invest in that; we\u2019ll invest in\u00A0something else\u201D? Now, those decisions should be made by the market. They shouldn\u2019t be\u00A0made, in my view, by trying to put overarching templates of some sort of social goal that\u00A0goes along with it. We\u2019re not talking about investment in landmines or something; we\u2019re\u00A0talking about other things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EAn energy company is a really easy one to use for that as an example, but there would be others\u2014forestry companies, for example. Are we investing in those, and if we are, what\u2019s the investment goal from that? Is it about sequestering carbon? Is it about a business that\u2019s actually going to return a good return on the capital investment? And, if the Superannuation Fund is able to take a controlling stake in that company, it could be a major impact on that business\u2019s operations. Are we going to have the Super Fund then imposing its own view on how the company should be run, other than the investment drivers that the business was originally set up for? So I\u2019d really like to have some clarity on that, in the Minister\u2019s view\u2014how that might play out\u2014and that would be really helpful. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00223a9d58331c744376a033a8af02f8a760\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a9d58331c744376a033a8af02f8a760\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Well, Mr Chair, thank you for the questions from the members, from Carl Bates, the comments from the Hon Deborah Russell and from Stuart Smith. One of the issues that did come through the select committee process, and that the members are all referring to, is this important question of the independence of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. Because by allowing the fund to take controlling interests in entities, it becomes arguably even more important that the Government be distant from its investment decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo I simply draw members\u2019 attention to section 58 of the Act, which requires the Guardians to \u201Cinvest on a prudent commercial basis\u201D and requires them to apply \u201Cbest-practice portfolio management;\u201D and to \u201C[maximise] return without undue risk to the Fund as a whole;\u201D. So this section, in conjunction with the independence of the board and the governance frameworks in place, give me comfort that the legislative settings do allow for a high degree of investment independence; that that is there in the Act and will continue to be preserved even while we allow this controlling entity stake to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI would note that the Minister is not able to give a direction that is inconsistent with the Guardians\u2019 duty to invest the fund on a prudent commercial basis. I think that is a very important part of the law, and it would be inappropriate for the Minister\u2014and, in fact, illegal for the Minister\u2014to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhat that requires of the fund is that it assess what it thinks are good investments in the market. What can be observed as that direct investment is now a much more common feature of best-practice global portfolio management today than it was when the Super Fund was first created, and that we also can see that the proportion of the fund allocated to direct investments has increased and may continue to grow into the future. As the fund becomes larger, it actually has to look for a wider range of investments and there are more investments that are available to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ELook, the member is correct to identify that there are other significant investors from around the world who the fund may want to jointly invest with, and certainly we have seen that that\u2019s common practice with super funds in other parts of the world\u2014that they invest with other technical experts into things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo I share members\u2019 hope that this will lead to investment in New Zealand infrastructure and significant New Zealand projects. But I would never direct the fund in that way, and it would not be appropriate for me to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00227829188395234be9a7595d4f8eca3463\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227829188395234be9a7595d4f8eca3463\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I just want to say that in this particular case, we have debated the independence of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund quite substantially during the second reading. And in terms of this particular thing, there has been no amendment\u2014there has been no new amendment tabled. And I think in terms of the technicality of this particular bill, it\u2019s pretty robust. So I just want to say that we should observe the same expediency as the previous bill in terms of getting it through the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0298d4778994a4aa7340d66ee0791a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0298d4778994a4aa7340d66ee0791a2\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Assistant Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u00222d68c2e4bd5348f5bf0ad49f6470ed94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d68c2e4bd5348f5bf0ad49f6470ed94\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I just want to ask a couple of questions, particularly around the main provisions of the bill. What I\u2019d quite like to understand is how this seeks to allow for the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation to hold controlling interest in a business, particularly also with the New Zealand Superannuation Fund statutory requirements and the five-yearly statutory reviews\u2014as well as that also how that applies to public sector organisations that aren\u2019t intended to apply to entities that the Guardians have invested in. So sort of more administrative questions, but if there\u2019s any way that we can have some answers to those questions. Obviously there are consequential amendments involved in this bill, but I\u2019d quite like to really understand a bit more about the removal of the control restrictions specifically, because obviously there\u2019s a wide group of investment opportunities that this will unlock, and just to understand some of those administrative outcomes that we can potentially seek to see as a result of the viability of investment partners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00223bbb638e410b47568dc67b7d24f8436a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bbb638e410b47568dc67b7d24f8436a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for her question. The New Zealand Superannuation Fund, via the Guardians, is currently required to maintain a statement of investment standards, policies, and procedures. And in making these changes, we will be requiring the Super Fund to update that to contain a governance framework for the implementation and operation of controlling interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI think this is important for a couple of reasons. One, because it will require the Super Fund to make transparent the approach it intends to take towards these sorts of investments ahead of making them, and that that approach will be able to be scrutinised and consistently applied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EThe second reason that this is important is that it provides a separation between the Guardians\u2019 functions as an investor or a shareholder and then the underlying operations of the investee, which is to say, just because the fund has a controlling interest doesn\u2019t mean that it\u2019s actually running the business in which it is invested. Because management of that underlying entity would run the business under the supervision of the entities board. So I hope that goes some way to addressing the member\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u00225510553e05704c8c993c3abe58ed1a61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225510553e05704c8c993c3abe58ed1a61\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair.\u00A0I was privileged to take part in the debate last week as the final speaker for the Government\u00A0side. I pointed out the irony, at that time, of being the youngest member of the\u00A0Government talking about superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022327bb20d37ef432fb5206ef6012654fb\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you said it then. It\u2019s repetitive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022020e31f4fe5446fe8adbe2c69761b6fe\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s repetitive but it was from last week, so I was just reminding the committee just in case they didn\u2019t remember. Good to see members on the opposite side being so engaged and involved with the debate. I\u2019m looking forward to seeing them making some meaningful contributions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcfde6552261473da0798b053bc7c80e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d like to know what you want to know about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022522bdad39e0642e49facdfbd5e64180a\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014meaningful contributions. You want to know what I want to know about this bill? Oh that\u2019s a good question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EHaving looked through the department disclosure statement, I\u2019m keen for the Minister to flesh out a little bit further for us around how the bill distinguishes between the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation as a Crown entity and the Guardians as a manager and administrator of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. The reason that I\u2019m keen to know about that is because the laws that apply to public sector organisations are not intended to apply to entities that the Guardians control as managers and administrators of the fund. I\u2019m keen to understand from the Minister the intention behind that direction but also around why the bill is clearly distinguishing needing the Guardians as a Crown entity but also the Guardians as managers and administrators of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. So if the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind just providing some clarity for me on that, I\u2019d really appreciate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab836d2b452940cd8c160cd969fdc6dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab836d2b452940cd8c160cd969fdc6dc\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The member does raise quite an important point, because there could be the scenario in which controlled entities, if they were treated as having the same requirements as typical Crown entities, would therefore become subject to all of the usual expectations that the law places on those Crown entities. That is what has given rise to some of the technical and consequential amendments in the\u00A0bill, which include amending sections of the Income Tax Act and the Ombudsmen Act to make it very clear that any controlled entities are not subject to the same requirements as Crown entities. I think this is actually quite an important limitation, because that could actually both prevent the Super Fund from making some investments if it thought that, in making that investment, it would be subject to the same expectations as a Crown entity. It could also complicate the nature of those investments and create obligations, in fact, for the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also relevant, though, that we distinguish here what would be the legal duties from this other question, which is: could there be a greater expectation, because of the nature of a controlling interest investment, that the public, that stakeholders would look back to the Crown to, say, in the event of a failure of an entity, that the Crown would be expected to bail it out? I think it\u2019s really important that the way that the Act is set up, that the\u00A0policies are set up, that the independence is set up, we don\u2019t create that expectation. The Super Fund, if it is to be free to make investments, also has to be free to make investments that fail, without the expectation that the Crown would be bailing it out. That is very much the way that this Act has been written, with that very clear, so that the Super Fund, in entering those investments, it can be clear that there is absolutely no expectation that the Crown would become the funder of last resort.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdfb3fc7b4b2441b8122780a1ab171f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdfb3fc7b4b2441b8122780a1ab171f0\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s great to stand up here and look at this bill, and we really enjoyed the second reading, where we did see cross-party support for this very, very important issue of the Superannuation Fund in New Zealand. You know, we\u2019ll all agree that there\u2019s been some great success with this fund, and with the ageing population that we are seeing in New Zealand at the moment, it\u2019s critical that we have some good investment and we can grow this fund so that we can sustain this ageing population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EBut I was particularly interested, because, obviously, this opens up more opportunity for investment not only internationally but also in New Zealand, whether that be in infrastructure or even looking at\u2014particularly agriculture at the moment have seen some wonderful, successful investments from the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation, whether that be in our orchards, in horticulture, or whether that be in dairy, and I\u2019ve seen some viticulture investment as well. So that\u2019s really positive, and, obviously, this amendment is going to open up more of that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EBut I was particularly interested in amended section 49A(b), inserted by clause 5, \u201Can entity that is formed or controlled by the Guardians for the purpose of holding, facilitating, or managing the investments of the Fund\u201D, and just around, I suppose, the implications of that moving forward when we are looking at investment around New\u00A0Zealand. Obviously, one of the members did point out before that it is very important that the Guardians do act independently and make sure that there is that independence when they are making those decisions around those investments. But if\u00A0the Minister in the chair, Nicola Willis, could perhaps just make a few comments around that, that would be much appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dca50508fcc24f5580239cdd98ebe5b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dca50508fcc24f5580239cdd98ebe5b6\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the question relates to the sorts of investments that the fund may wish to have a controlling interest in and the circumstances in which it would make that choice. The member in particular highlights a sector which I\u00A0too have great confidence in and optimism for, which is the New Zealand primary industries, which certainly have a very bright future in a world that is looking for sustainable protein and nutrition\u2014and we produce the very best.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI\u2019d start by saying that because the Super Fund is by its nature a long-term investor, that does distinguish it from some other investors in that it has the ability to ride out short-term market volatility and can instead wait to sell assets until the market has improved, and it is right to do that. By its nature, it has a long-term horizon and so isn\u2019t investing for short-term gain or short-term return, and that lends itself very well to the concept of having a controlling interest. If an investor is investing in something seeing long-term potential, sometimes what that will require is changes to the way that a business is operating\u2014recapitalisation in different ways, new personnel, new approaches\u2014which necessarily require a controlling interest in order to exercise those changes. These two things come together when you think about an industry like the primary industries, where, potentially, there are areas that, if there was significant new investment or new innovation, could, over the medium- to long-term, offer significant additional return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo all of this is a complicated way of me saying that I will never and should not tell the Super Fund who it should invest in or what it should invest in, but it does seem to me\u00A0that agricultural industries would be a category of investment that the fund would consider and that having a controlling interest in would enable them to consider a broader range of investments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EMore generally, beyond agriculture, it is obvious that when we look at New Zealand, we\u2019ve actually seen a reducing proportion of the Super Fund\u2019s investments being in New\u00A0Zealand over time. Well, we can envisage that happening if we don\u2019t allow it to broaden out to investments which require a controlling stake, which is to say I think there\u2019s a risk,\u00A0if we weren\u2019t passing this legislation, that the Super Fund would feel increasingly constrained by what investments it could make in New Zealand because it wouldn\u2019t be\u00A0able to have a controlling stake and therefore would look increasingly offshore for those sorts of growth opportunities and innovation opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo I would put to members that by allowing this change, this controlling stake, we\u2019re opening up a whole new range of investments for the Super Fund, medium and long term assets, and there could be some significant economic benefit from having another investor at scale investing in growth industries and businesses in our own country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ECertainly, when you look around the world at pension funds and similar funds in other jurisdictions, as they have grown larger, as they have accumulated scale, they have made increasingly sophisticated investments where they do hold those controlling interests and,\u00A0in some cases, have built up expertise in particular industries or particular ways of\u00A0investing. It is not impossible, Catherine, for me to envisage a world in which the Super\u00A0Fund would develop expertise in a particular sector or a particular area and would have\u00A0its controlling interests aligned with that. So I do thank the member for the question\u2014I\u00A0think it\u2019s a good one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022715d866d852b4a1aad11734812d1be79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022715d866d852b4a1aad11734812d1be79\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I feel like I\u2019ve come late to the party in relation to this particular piece of legislation. I\u2019m not a member of the esteemed Finance and Expenditure Committee. However, I am a chartered accountant and have a particular interest in the management and oversight of companies. So I have several questions I\u2019d like to ask in relation to this bill that I haven\u2019t already had the opportunity to ask, and I have a few more I\u2019ll ask, hopefully later in the evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EMy first concern sits around this context that has been touched on already, but I really want to get certainty, particularly for my constituents. Because in the wonderful Whanganui electorate we have a large South African population. In fact, yesterday I was in Stratford buying some dro\u00EBwors from a great butcher there, and it reminds me of the\u00A0concern that particularly South Africans have when you start thinking and talking about political influence, which is important to this bill when it comes to the Guardians fund not having political influence over the companies that they make\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022816ed822de614b23af82ddf8727aac3c\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chair. Thank you, Mr Chair. Members on this side of the Chamber gave the member a minute and a half to ask the Minister a question which was relevant to this bill, and the question is, in fact, repetitive. If you look to Standing Order 112(2), this is something which has been asked now by three members on the other side of the Chamber and would be something which would warrant you terminating the member\u2019s speech now that it has been raised a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f69af02308b741a6bfaeda8e70486329\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. Well, thank you, Mr Chair, but as the Chair well knows, that is a decision and a judgment for the Chair alone. It\u2019s not for members on either side of the Chamber to make that judgment call. So I put it that that point of order is completely out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b89bf2f11df641c4bd09587104f8d0d1\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair, speaking to the point of order. I also think it is upon us to think that there are many other questions that we wish to ask. So whether it was repetitive in that particular case, there are other unanswered questions as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a605e76bef44f779cd13bc775ed4ff4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, OK. OK, what I will ask members to do is to relate it specifically to the bill. I think the contribution just before this contribution did relate specifically to\u2014and I was listening to it\u201459(1)(b), I think, and that was quite\u00A0helpful. So if members do have questions, if you could relate it specifically to the bill, that would be very helpful. I\u2019ll allow Carl Bates to continue. So relating it directly to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022808ef33b46fe41bb8a2642960dfe8fa1\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair, and I take the point about questions being related to the bill. I\u2019m speaking to section 64(2) of the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe3678e17995468c9890e54f110b7d06\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: We know! A few of your colleagues have raised it already. We\u00A0know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225afc927cc874a9fb78e8237cf7d4db7\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: If you give me an opportunity to ask my question, I might be able to get around to actually asking my question. It surprises me\u2014and, Mr Chair, hopefully you\u2019ll indulge me as I speak about the bill\u2014that my colleagues on the other side of the Chamber when I\u2019m speaking about an immigration matter related to the bill and the concerns of our fellow New Zealanders who have come here from around the world, and the mental wellbeing they bring to this country, and my colleagues across the Chamber aren\u2019t allowing me the opportunity to ask a question that would be of significant concern to all South\u00A0Africans living in electorates should they be MPs for an electorate. But if they\u2019re not, Mr Chair, I\u2019d like to come back\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d76b0fd4b7474e1fac5a22f1ebcea307\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair, we\u2019ve just been through this just a few moments ago. Whether or not\u2014yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291f33d147fb74cafba9b36eaa0268e09\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if you don\u2019t interrupt me, I\u2019ll get to my question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa5362c029da4ceaa0e69fa869d9c3fe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for my clarification, you were talking about 6 and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022890052403e1c43f5bfa5fac15300c9c6\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: So I\u2019m referring to the provisions as provided in section 64(2) of the Act related to political influence, which the bill is related to. In ensuring that we don\u2019t allow the Guardians fund to get into a position where we have entities invested in that become majority-owned and ultimately have through\u2014whether it be directly through the Act or through the influence of politicians, and we have strong politicians, as we\u2019re seeing here in the House this evening, who have opinions that that come across.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EI want to have certainty for my constituents that the Minister assures this committee that there won\u2019t be political influence in any form enabled through this bill being enacted through this House. That\u2019s the first question, Mr Chair. I said I had two questions and I\u2019m coming to the second part of my question now, in relation to the different ways. So I\u2019m now speaking about section 59(1).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022557d4882bf64420aaca21159fa032ca9\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Yep! No, we\u2019ve had that one too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244958537dfb444b8a47bf66da852998e\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s important to point out the section because while my colleagues on this side of the Chamber are following me clearly, my colleagues on the other side of the Chamber are finding it difficult to follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003ESo section 59(1), which speaks to the different types of ways the Guardians fund can take interests in companies. I wanted\u2014and I\u2019m probably not going to get to be able to ask my question given the interruptions I\u2019ve had so far this evening, but what I wanted to\u00A0understand is, from the Minister, the different types of ownerships. Now, whether we\u2019re speaking about majority control just in the form of shares; whether we\u2019re speaking about majority ownership in the form of other types of instruments that could be converted into shares; debenture bond allocation; as well as bringing in different classes\u00A0of shares to sort of get around\u2014Mr Chair, can I finish that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00223905ea054e3c4bb1a96e230e7487b5af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223905ea054e3c4bb1a96e230e7487b5af\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc196ef12b1a4db59241d7653054685b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc196ef12b1a4db59241d7653054685b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, the member is asking about how the bill relates to section 64 of the Act, which it amends. And there is actually an important point here around ministerial directions, which I haven\u2019t covered as yet, because there is a clear legal separation from the core Crown to that of autonomous Crown entities in respect of the fund. And while I\u2019ve at length commented on the fact that the Minister can\u2019t specifically direct the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, the Minister can give non-binding directions to the Guardians regarding the Government\u2019s expectations as to the fund\u2019s performance, including as to risk and return.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAnd the member asks about where the line lies in terms of politicisation and what that looks like. And I think it is important to look at where that section has been operable. I\u00A0think back to the Rt Hon Bill English, who as finance Minister directed the Super Fund to conduct a higher level of investment in New Zealand markets. And in that case, he directed the Super Fund to have regard to increased funding within New Zealand, but he\u00A0didn\u2019t\u2014because he lawfully couldn\u2019t\u2014direct the entity to give effect to the policy.\u00A0And there is a subtle difference there that is quite important. And so, in that case, the Guardians\u2019 obligations under section 58 remain unchanged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo to the question on the ministerial directions; those same requirements remain in the Act unchanged by the bill before us. What the bill focuses on, importantly, in terms of amending obligations as set out in section 59, is about the status of those entities in which the fund invests. Because, as I commented on earlier, it is important that no one be under the impression that an entity, simply because the Super Fund has a controlling entity in it, in some way becomes a Crown entity subsidiary, or a Crown entity, and therefore would be treated with the obligations, rights, and responsibilities of a Crown entity. And you see at section 59 that outlined clearly that the Official Information Act, the Ombudsman Act do not apply, and that \u201CThe Guardians\u2019 interests in an entity that is formed or controlled by the Guardians for the purpose of holding, facilitating, or managing the investments of the Fund are Fund investments and part of the Fund.\u201D And so that distinction is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAnd I would simply also note in relation to those ministerial directions that while the Minister cannot direct in a way that requires the fund to do one thing or another, it would be interesting, of course, to observe that I would find it hard to imagine there isn\u2019t a\u00A0member in this House who would like to see the Super Fund investing more in New\u00A0Zealand infrastructure. That currently forms a very small portion of the fund\u2019s overall investment portfolio. And I\u2019m sure others would join me in being hopeful that the changes we are making tonight would enable the Super Fund to make more investments in New Zealand infrastructure, to grow and build this great country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022 data-id=\u00224410b0b30eea4ec6a0528047c4cf0750\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224410b0b30eea4ec6a0528047c4cf0750\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Chair. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. A real short call from us here at Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. We are in support of this bill. But just to make a statement and to remind the committee that superannuation\u2014when I think about our kaum\u0101tua and kuia, they are the pou of our society. They\u2019ve worked hard and long and contributed to building the economy of Aotearoa. The problem we have and the issue we have for M\u0101ori is we don\u2019t get access to the Superannuation Fund. We die seven to 10 years earlier than non-M\u0101ori. If you follow the science and the data, it tells us that. So what we need is legislation and policy that aligns to be able to adjust the inequalities of superannuation so that we can get access to it sooner, earlier, so that M\u0101ori get access to their right and to what they\u2019ve contributed to in their years of life. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022f20a8d6a8f3047df89b453a9e03391ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f20a8d6a8f3047df89b453a9e03391ed\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I want to focus on clause 6. I think the Minister of Finance made some very good points about ownership and what constitutes the entity, or what the entity that it\u2019s invested in is considered as, and whether it\u2019s a Crown entity or otherwise. I think it\u2019s really important\u2014the Minister had made points earlier about investment, much-needed investment, coming\u00A0in from overseas. I do understand that and I think it\u2019s really important; we do lack\u00A0depth and breadth of capital in New Zealand to invest into businesses, and that does create a problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBut I want to turn to clause 6 of the bill: sections 59 to 59B of the principal legislation are being replaced with section 59, \u201CStatus of certain entities\u201D, which the Minister covered. Subsection (2) of section 59 states, \u201CTo avoid doubt, the Official Information Act 1982 and the Ombudsman Act 1975 do not apply to any entity by virtue of a Fund investment or any related [arrangements]\u201D, and in brackets it says, \u201C(but the Official Information Act 1982 applies to the Guardians in respect of information held by the Guardians about the entity).\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ENow, I have some concerns about that, Minister. If I was a company that was looking for an investment, large capital raised in some way, and a New Zealand Superannuation Fund was one of the options, if I knew that any information that I had about my company could be accessible via the Official Information Act (OIA), I\u2019d be reticent. If I\u2019ve got two offers on the table, one from the New Zealand Super Fund and one, say, from an overseas investment firm, and one of them I know will not be subject to the OIA and the other will be, I\u2019d be quite concerned. So if that information included commercially sensitive information such as pricing, such as suppliers and supplier agreements, which would normally be part of a transaction\u2014any investor would want to know some of those things and they\u2019d have a non-disclosure agreement, I\u2019d imagine, for commercially sensitive information. That wouldn\u2019t be worth anything if the New Zealand Super Fund was the potential investor, as I read the bill. There may be some other caveats that go with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWe do know from long experience in the Opposition that getting OIA requests\u2014sometimes there\u2019s a lot of redaction. Sometimes there\u2019s more black ink covering everything than there is in the rest of the request and you can\u2019t read anything. But as this bill reads, it would seem that everything that the entity supplied to the Super Fund\u00A0could be viewed by Official Information Act request. So my question is: am I\u00A0understanding this correctly? If I am, what would be acceptable as a redaction on the grounds of commercial sensitivity, and where does that go for those businesses? Because it could well gazump the whole intent of the bill, which is to enable the Super Fund to bring much-needed depth to the capital markets to ensure that New Zealand businesses survive and thrive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe whole point of an investment might be to invest in new technology to increase productivity, it might be to invest in ensuring that they can grow their markets. It may well be better to accept an investor or only to cast your net as wide as the international markets where you might get extra benefits other than money coming from offshore, like access to markets, which the New Zealand Super Fund would not actually bring to the table. So I\u2019d be very interested in hearing that, Minister, because I think it\u2019s a very important thing for New Zealand and for the Super Fund as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002298b30927b380440db5b10d079d51e25d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298b30927b380440db5b10d079d51e25d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E The member raises a very good question, because what the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill recognises in new section 59(2) is that if the Official Information Act 1982 were to be automatically applied to any entity which had a controlling fund investment in it, that would be significantly problematic, because it could actually prevent the fund from wanting to make that investment in the first place. It would make it a less beneficial investor than others, due to the additional disclosure obligations that would sit upon it. So that is specifically carved out in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EHowever, what the member is now focusing on is the fact that the Official Information Act still applies to the Guardians in respect of the information that the Guardians hold. That is the case. However, the Official Information Act\u2014by way of, I understand, sections 9(2)(b), 9(2)(i)\u2014does allow entities to withhold the release of information on a number of grounds relating to commercial sensitivity. That is, entities can choose to withhold information if they believe that supplying that information would damage the public interest in a number of ways. Looking at the Ombudsman guidance on that, this goes to whether or not it would prejudice a commercial position, and, in particular, the information the release of which could prejudice a commercial position includes information that could disadvantage an entity vis-\u00E0-vis their direct competitor, that could increase their costs, that could decrease their income or profits, damage their negotiating position, damage their reputation leading to a loss of business or trade, or damage shareholder, customer, or supplier confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENow, I don\u2019t pretend, members, that I came to the committee tonight with expertise on the particular commercial grounds for withholding under the Official Information Act, but what I can assure the member is that the operation of the Official Information Act as it has related to the Super Fund has included grounds for withholding information that I am not aware of there being any concerns about. As the member points out, it would be another step for the entity itself to be subject to the Official Information Act (OIA) simply because the Super Fund was its investor, and that would raise a new range of concerns. So I think that is an important point that the member raises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EFor members\u2019 interest, the Super Fund does already have a number of direct investments in New Zealand in which it doesn\u2019t have a controlling interest but which it does have a direct investment. This includes: Kaingaroa Timberlands, which obviously owns a large forest; Longroad; Datacom; Awanui; Kaha Ake; Fidelity Life; and NZ Gourmet\u2014alongside significant property investments in hotels and land development. The point that I am simply making is that the Super Fund has been able to make investments of this nature while being subject to the OIA previously, and that gives me\u00A0confidence that when it later takes controlling interests in entities that could be similar to\u00A0those it already holds, this will not be prejudicial to its commercial performance in the\u00A0way that the member raises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u00225a64dac561eb424196b65216b3e49fea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a64dac561eb424196b65216b3e49fea\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just very quickly, as I read through this piece of legislation, and going on from what my colleague has just mentioned around M\u0101ori accessing the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and due to our mortality rates\u2014dying seven to 10 years earlier than everybody else\u2014it seems to me that this particular fund has built up its funds due to those who maybe don\u2019t have access to it, including M\u0101ori. My question to the Minister is: will this legislation allow for the Superannuation Fund to invest in closing the mortality gaps for M\u0101ori? Is there a priority for this National Government to then start to put pressure on the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act and the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation to start to look at closing the mortality rates, investing in those who probably have contributed more to the superannuation because they haven\u2019t accessed it\u2014those being M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003EAnd my colleague also talked about the ability to lower the superannuation rates so we are able to access superannuation due to many of our people working in precarious labour-type jobs for many, many years. Many of them don\u2019t own homes\u2014we\u2019re renters\u2014and so the investment into housing, the investment into better health outcomes, I think, would be a better spend for the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Act. And whether the Minister would guide the Guardians or have this piece of legislation ensure that those who are not accessing superannuation because they\u2019re dying earlier are able to access that through investment funds where we\u2019re able to start closing those particular gaps\u2014that\u2019s the question I ask of the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00222d8d42c08f5f4a58be7c97b8b735f9dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d8d42c08f5f4a58be7c97b8b735f9dc\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for his question. I think he appreciates that some of his question relates to aspects of the superannuation scheme in New Zealand which are outside of this bill that we are debating tonight in terms of the age of eligibility for superannuation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EHowever, the second part of the member\u2019s question, which relates to the nature of the kinds of investments the Super Fund can make and may make in future is, I think, relevant to the bill because what the bill says is that the fund in future can take a controlling interest in a broad range of entities. What the Guardians are required to consider when they make those investments is whether they are making those investments in a prudent and commercial way that is consistent with their statement of investment standards, policies, and procedures, and that is consistent with their governance framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAnd it is not hard for me, Mr Waititi, to imagine that there will be investments which have two benefits, which provide commercial return but also provide enhanced wellbeing to M\u0101ori people. There is an example in that list of organisations I just discussed: Awanui. They are the leading provider of laboratory and pathology services in New Zealand. The provision of health services that are effective and efficient can be life enhancing. But I\u00A0have an aspiration which is that I would like to see more New Zealanders feeling that their superannuation assets are being invested in New Zealand assets. And I think that the Super Fund is a vehicle which in some senses is highly democratic, because even if you yourself don\u2019t have a KiwiSaver fund, by virtue of being a New Zealander, you can claim a stake in the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. So when the New Zealand Superannuation Fund goes out and invests, it is quite literally investing on behalf of every single taxpayer and New Zealander, and therefore, in making those investments, has the capacity, I think, to make positive social and commercial impact for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s a number for the member and others to reflect on: New Zealand investment represents only around 14 percent of the Super Fund\u2019s current total portfolio. Less than 1 percent of that is in infrastructure. So the point that I would simply make is if we want the Super Fund to be more invested in activities that create prosperity for New Zealanders and that create commercial return for New Zealanders, then we should be broadening out the scope. And a bill like that, that we are doing tonight, will actually broaden out the scope of activities, I hope, that the Super Fund will consider. And I look around the world and I see the positive effect that social bonds and social venture investment has had, and the willingness of pension funds in other parts of the world to invest in those vehicles because, again, they have that patient investor mind-set, that long-term return mind-set.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ESo to come back to the beginning, of course the Super Fund still has to be looking for commercial return and prudent return, but as any good investor will tell you, often commercial return and prudent investment comes hand in hand with offering positive social or environment impact to the benefit of M\u0101ori and to the benefit of all New\u00A0Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u002202a75746a16e4ed299683f7eec826fc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202a75746a16e4ed299683f7eec826fc6\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you for the opportunity. I think one thing that hasn\u2019t really been covered off which I think is quite important is the title and commencement of this bill. I think that\u2019s just one thing I want to point out particularly, and there\u2019s another couple of points I want to make. Actually, first, before I\u00A0do that, I just wanted to say, to my colleague Stuart Smith\u2019s point about what I call the\u00A0perverse outcome, I suppose, with potentially not wanting to take on investment from\u00A0the\u00A0Superannuation Fund\u2014if that was going to be disclosed\u2014which I think is really\u00A0important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EOne thing also to mention: Australia has great investment in transport and infrastructure businesses through this very protocol, and so I\u2019m really excited to see what this will do for our superannuation scheme, for investment, for people getting involved in KiwiSaver as well, obviously resulting in the outcome of better investment and what that contributes to New Zealand. But I think just the question about, obviously, the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill; I just want to be sure that, obviously, \u201Ccontrolling interests\u201D, in parentheses, that that is the best and clearest way that we can put that bill amendment forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003EThen in the terms of commencement, obviously, with it being in its immediacy of being the day after the date on which it receives its Royal assent, if that gives enough time\u00A0for those that are in the investment departments within the Superannuation Fund, the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation sort of aspect of that, that they\u2019ve got that\u00A0time to be able to prepare themselves for what this means for their investment programme and how this might work, from an administrative point of view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003ESo, really, quite administrative questions, but I think they are quite important. Something that we tend to get quite involved in in all of the clauses\u2014particularly, obviously, with replacement section 59, inserted by clause 6, and the wording, which is obviously vital, but as we\u2019re talking about this in one full part, I think it\u2019s important that we cover those off. Often, those are the things we don\u2019t give enough thought to, so if the Minister could answer this question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa4a8919cb8b466ba7e58e022b04408c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa4a8919cb8b466ba7e58e022b04408c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you. Look, the question is about the date of commencement, which is obviously quick in this instance. It\u2019s the day after the Act receives Royal assent. I\u2019d assure the member that I met with the board of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund earlier this year\u2014well, members of the board\u2014and mentioned to them the passage of this bill through the House and how pleased I was that it was being agreed to in a bipartisan way. The Superannuation Fund made clear to me that they are both looking forward to and prepared for its passage. As we have been discussing in the committee tonight, they did think that it would open up the range of investments that they could make, and they have obviously been thinking about this for some time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI think one of the issues that we haven\u2019t canvassed as much, that they are prepared for and have been thinking about, is that in the past, even when they haven\u2019t entered an investment intentionally with a controlling stake, they have had to be careful about some investments that they make on the basis that if one shareholder was to exit that investment or the nature of that entity was to change, that they could inadvertently or accidentally become a controlling shareholder. So that has meant both some avoidance but also that they have had to have particular investment requirements and technicalities in a range of investments that they\u2019ve made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI think that they would anticipate that there would be less of that kind of concern in the future. Of course, they would continue to have to be prudent about the nature of any investment in any stake that they took, but it is safe to say that they are very ready for this bill. They have waited patiently for it to become law and would welcome it becoming so. As to the title, look, it\u2019s not a very creative one, but it says exactly what it does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5f2df31273d4abeb48180b1a41f9bc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5f2df31273d4abeb48180b1a41f9bc1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for members\u2019 awareness, I am listening for new material, particularly for material that relates directly to the bill. I do note that that has been happening, but we\u2019re down to the title and commencement, so listening very, very carefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u002247c04bcda84b48a688beca33adcd3a72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247c04bcda84b48a688beca33adcd3a72\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. When we are taking this all as one part, I\u2019m really keen to actually talk about the title of the bill, particularly. The Minister of Finance did talk about it briefly in her response to my colleague Katie Nimon\u2019s proposal and question to her. I\u2019d ask the Minister: the title currently is New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill; had she considered a potential title for the bill to be \u201CNew Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Ideally Invest in New Zealand) Amendment Bill\u201D, where we\u2019re looking for the New Zealand Superannuation Fund to invest ideally\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229204ee91ddb24ad096b967488c3402d5\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chair. Thank you, Mr Chair. Just a point of order. That is repetitive. The Minister has already spent a great deal of time responding to questions around the title and commencement, which she did describe, herself, as quite simple and straightforward, describing the nature of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ca85aca1b1c4c9ca80b2fd92087a701\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I would just note in the Standing Orders, under the committee of the whole House, each member is entitled to make multiple speeches of up to five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd77e35122b84abfbd1d5a0494d66ac7\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: If relevant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260820e565cf7428eb3163f1169938f37\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was relevant, because I hadn\u2019t proposed this to the Minister for her consideration yet, on the specific title that I was putting forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3ee94e38c7c401ea3305dac335cb870\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that question is repetitive, but I will allow the Hon Nicola Willis to respond, if she has a response to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff17ebb904a346129361b1b33d911f6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff17ebb904a346129361b1b33d911f6e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I thank the member for his question. The member is bright, he is bright-eyed, he is bushy-tailed, he\u2019s enthusiastic, and he\u2019s full of ideas. I will admit that I didn\u2019t get to name this one, and, actually, it was my predecessor who got to name it. Perhaps, in future, when I have the exciting opportunity to name a bill, I will consider, first, a visit to Tom Rutherford, he the designer of creative bill titles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u002220515b8c63d14a34be3569665eaf001e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220515b8c63d14a34be3569665eaf001e\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EParts 1 and 2, the Schedule, and clauses 1 to 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3d974cf96c34979a4a65eb891ac134f\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022acc9084d9461406d895882cc289cd0c0\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e193842284cd4f11baacdaf4ea5ec0fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e193842284cd4f11baacdaf4ea5ec0fd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Regulatory Systems (Education) Amendment Bill and reports it with amendment. The committee has also considered the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income (Controlling Interests) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022444a2373618f4e32a4c6dbea4e8af9ac\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Claims Settlement Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fe331bfecee4c728729c7a39b53310b\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00229619044fbf4a4aeb8fe67ff2bb4ae7c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229619044fbf4a4aeb8fe67ff2bb4ae7c0\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Claims Settlement Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a739822ee3784f88bd51ec63b79783bf\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House. It can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242ce9b86b40e4e7487f83127d0d16889\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Claims Settlement Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ETihei mauri ora!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ETe Whare e t\u016B nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, te papa i waho nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koe, te mana whenua o t\u0113nei rohe, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, te hunga mate, haere haere haere. Haere ki te whenua o ng\u0101 t\u016Bpuna. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ETe hunga ora t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. Ka mihi ki ng\u0101 m\u0101unga k\u014Drero ki ng\u0101 awa rangatira, ki te whenua taurikura o Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, e ng\u0101 k\u0101wai rangatira, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E[\u2018Tis the breath of life!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe House that stands, greetings, the land we are on, greetings, the protectors of this region, greetings to you all, the deceased, farewell. Farewell to the homeland of your ancestors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ETo us, greetings to you. I acknowledge the many speaking mountains, the many formidable rivers, and also to the cherished lands of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, dear esteemed leaders, salutations to you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis bill gives effect to the deed of settlement signed by Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui and the Crown in July 2022. The deed of settlement resolves all the remaining historical Treaty of Waitangi claims of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, who are an iwi centred around Paeroa in the Hauraki/Coromandel region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe historical claims of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui relate to Crown purchases of their land, and the operation of the Native Land Court. The cumulative effect of the Crown\u2019s actions and omissions had a devastating effect on the economic, social, and cultural development of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, leaving the iwi virtually landless by the 1920s. This bill comprises three parts, detailing, firstly, the historical background; secondly, Crown acknowledgments of and apology for breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi; and, thirdly, cultural and commercial redress. I look forward to providing greater details about the redress at the bill\u2019s third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe pathway towards settlement for Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi has been a long one. The Waitangi Tribunal heard the Hauraki claims, including the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Wai 714 claim lodged by the late Hone Tewaewae Williams, from 1998 to 2002. The tribunal heard 24 hearings and completed its report in 2006. The focus then turned to direct negotiations with the Crown, which concluded with the signing of a deed of settlement in July 2022. The first reading of the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Claims Settlement Bill was passed in June last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui has lost many members who were part of the settlement journey, but are not alive to see this day. I acknowledge those t\u012Bpuna and all iwi members who have participated in this process, whether they were collating evidence, attending hui, being witnesses in the Tribunal, supporting leaders and negotiators participating in iwi discussions, or voting on whether to support the settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EFor more than 25 years, Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui has pursued acknowledgment of their Treaty claims and redress for current and future generations. I acknowledge the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Trust and your negotiators Amelia Williams and Russell Karu. Your dedication and determination have been vital in achieving this settlement for all. The Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Trust will be the post-settlement governance entity that will receive the settlement assets on behalf of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui and will represent the iwi in its future dealings with the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EOn the Crown side, I acknowledge the work of chief Crown negotiators Michael Dreaver and the Hon Rick Barker, who have been well supported by Te Arawhiti throughout this process. I also acknowledge my predecessors the Hon Chris Finlayson and the Hon Andrew Little, who both made significant contributions to this Treaty settlement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThis Government is continuing the bipartisan effort to restore the Crown relationship with iwi by settling historical Treaty grievances. There have been many other Ministers and Crown agencies involved in this settlement, and I thank you for your contributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe bill was referred to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on 29 June 2023. The committee received and considered 15 submissions on the bill. Based on the submissions and advice received, the committee does not recommend making any significant changes to the bill. The committee recommended some minor and technical amendments to ensure consistency with other Hauraki iwi settlement bills. I thank the committee for their diligent work in the consideration of this bill. I\u2019m satisfied with the committee\u2019s recommendations, as they will ensure the redress agreed in the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui deed of settlement can be properly implemented through this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI look forward to the final steps towards settlement for Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, and it will be my great pleasure to host them and all their supporters for the third reading of this bill. I commend this bill to the House. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002205a2c46a8ec7402c82e1da452ab6b3be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205a2c46a8ec7402c82e1da452ab6b3be\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00225221aaac63674951a7e18baa53b58e3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225221aaac63674951a7e18baa53b58e3c\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. Ng\u0101 mihi o te w\u0101, o te P\u012Bpiri e haere mai nei i t\u0113nei p\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. Acknowledgments of the month, particularly as the month of June nears us this night.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an honour and a privilege to stand today to speak to what is an important part of the history of not only Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui but all members of the Hauraki, of uri who whakapapa to what is a shared set of interests and shared t\u016Bpuna in the Hauraki region, and for M\u0101ori to celebrate an opportunity for the Crown to atone for those things in this historical account that we say today were wrong and should never have happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations is right to acknowledge the work that has gone into this, and the first acknowledgment that I wish to make is to those t\u016Bpuna and esteemed members of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui who have since passed on and who are not with us at this time, when the bill is progressing through the House. There are members who have contributed to this piece of legislation who will be proud today to have reached the second stage in the legislation, and who will be looking forward to the third reading, when it will pass into law. I know that there are members who will be watching today who will hold their contributions in their memory and at the front of their minds as this progresses through the House, and I acknowledge them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge those Crown negotiators, who have worked very hard to\u00A0make sure that the Crown\u2019s history and the agreed account is something which is enduring and which captures those not only oral histories but written histories, which are available in this region because of successive Waitangi inquiries into the history here, and that is\u00A0recorded in the legislation today. Those are the chief Crown negotiator, Mike Dreaver, and also the Hon Rick Barker, who worked through this settlement with Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui and, indeed, the Pare Hauraki settlements, which were treated as a large national grouping and were progressed as such under both Labour and National administrations in\u00A0the large national groupings approach to these settlements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIt was hard work to progress these settlements with the Hauraki iwi. I want to thank not only those negotiators but also the Ministers who were involved with the Crown agencies for providing the support that was required to achieve these settlements, and this settlement with Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, in particular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe negotiations with Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui began at Ngahutoitoi Marae in 2011. It gives you a sense of what it takes, even for a settlement of this size\u2014which is deeply important in its historical nature, but is not large in quantum\u2014when members formally hand over the power to their negotiators to represent their interests on their behalf with the Crown and when they then work through a process, for their negotiators to build a\u00A0sort of consensus around these areas which are dealt with in the settlement. The agreement in principle was reached in that same year\u2014in 2011\u2014and that\u2019s a tribute to those negotiators, who were able to quickly work through the issues which needed to be put to the Crown. Then, to get to this stage, is quite a quick settlement process, and it\u2019s a tribute to their work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI just want to touch on how this is an area of the country as somewhere where the Crown has a lot to apologise for. The history here, which is recognised in this bill and the other bills which have come before this House already for Pare Hauraki, are an account of the historical injustices that the people of the area faced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EA lot of that is recorded in the Native Land Court records of this time, and so it provides a useful historical touch point for this House to consider\u2014records, like the letter of 1869 written by Te Keepa Raharuhi, which he wrote to the Native Minister and the Crown\u2019s representative in Hauraki, asking them to honour undertakings negotiated by them. He wrote, \u201CE hoa m\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 k\u014Drua. He kupu t\u0101ku kia k\u014Drua, ko m\u0101tou whakaaro kua t\u016Bturu ki runga ki o t\u0101tou whakaaro. E hoa m\u0101, tera pea m\u0101tou e mate i te Hauhau, e ngari kei a k\u014Drua te whakaaro kia m\u0101tou. K\u0101ore hoki e tahi o m\u0101tou i whiwhi i te tika, i enei mo te\u00A0wahi, e kino ai Te Hauhau kia m\u0101tou. E hoa m\u0101, t\u0113nei ano t\u0113tehi o a m\u0101tou kupu kia k\u014Drua. K\u014D matou p\u012Bh\u012B whenua i roto i te rohe a te Kawana, i te takiw\u0101 o Katikati i tukua e m\u0101tou kia Te Maki i mua. Whaka-ae ana ia i t\u0113nei ra ka tukua atu e m\u0101tou kia k\u014Drua, ma k\u014Drua e whakaputa mai kia m\u0101tou. He oi ano te kupu kia k\u014Drua.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E[\u201CFriends, greetings. I have a message to you both, our thoughts, we have agreed to what us and you suggested. Friends, we may die at the hands of the Hauhau, but we will leave our decisions to you. Not one of us received any rights to this block where the Hauhaus may not like us. Friends, this is another message to you. Our piece of land within the boundaries of the Government, in the Katikati district, we gave to Mackay before. He agrees on this day to give over to you, for you to hand back to us. This is all we have to say.\u201D]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhat he was saying there was that he was appealing to the Government to honour the agreements that they had made, and he refers to them over and over as \u201Cmy friends\u201D. He was offering a peace there for what was an injustice of land being taken away by the Government but also of boundaries being violated by successive Governments in the Katikati District. He had already appealed to Mackay before, and he refers there to the injustice which had been done over and over by a Government which was refusing to negotiate with the people who occupied that land at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe historical account of any settlement legislation is one of the most important parts. At this second reading, it\u2019s my privilege, as the chair of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee when this went through that select committee, to inform the House that we delved deeply into the historical issues. We heard from the 15 submitters about how this would affect them and how having access to an agreed history would allow them to move forward. It is something which I am proud that our Treaty settlement process in Aotearoa allows us to do\u2014to have these historical touch points on the record as part of the shared knowledge that we can then build from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, may I thank everyone who has worked on this bill, and I thank Minister Paul Goldsmith for continuing to advance it at pace. It is something that I am proud that New Zealand legislators all agree on, and may that long continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022a523241ddfca4256837525665e3013e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a523241ddfca4256837525665e3013e6\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. In the heart of the rohe of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui is the Waihou River, and that river has a particular significance in the history of colonisation of our land, not just for the Hauraki and the Waikato but, indeed, for the whole nation, because in 1769, when Joseph Banks and James Cook anchored off what became Thames and took a longboat up the Waihou, what Banks recorded in his journal was essentially a plan for how the lands could be acquired, how they could be cleared of their forests, how they could be drained, and how they could be farmed. It was a plan for colonisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWhen both Banks and Cook saw the magnificent kahikatea forests of the Hauraki Plains, they were deeply impressed by them. Banks said that the \u201Cimmense quantity of Woodland, which was yet uncleard, but promisd great returns to the people who would take the trouble of Clearing it \u2026 Swamps, which might doubtless Easily be draind, and sufficiently evincd the richness of their soil by the great size of all the plants that grew upon them, and more particularly of the timber trees which were the streightest, cleanest, and I may say the largest I have ever seen \u2026 I may have seen several times single trees larger than any I Observd among them, but it was not one but all these trees which were enormous, \u2026 we rowd for many miles between woods of these trees, to which we could see no bounds. The River Thames\u201D\u2014as Cook named the Waihou River, for political reasons, to convince England that this was the right place to colonise\u2014\u201Cis indeed in every respect the properest place we have yet seen for establishing a Colony;\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWe know that from 1865, shortly after the occurrence of the invasion of the Waikato, the confiscations of the land began in the Hauraki, as well. The land was taken. It was acquired by hook or by crook, and, as Philip Steer said, \u201CIf a lesson emerges, it is that nature\u2019s death occurred not only by grand confiscations and conflagrations, but also by innumerable small bureaucratic concessions and oversights.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThose magnificent forests where Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui had their livelihoods\u2014those forests were dense with native birds that were snared for food. The koro\u012B berries, as the berries of the kahikatea were named by M\u0101ori, were harvested by the skilful ascending of the sleek trunks of these enormous trees. The kahikatea is the largest native tree\u2014not the kauri, but the kahikatea\u2014and, for context, these trees are so ancient ecologically, they are 160 to 180 million years old, which is to say the kahikatea tree came into existence before there were even birds on Planet Earth. It is the pterodactyl that would have originally eaten the berry of these trees, and who were kaitiakitanga of this magnificent natural heritage of Aotearoa? It was Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui and the other iwi around the nation, who also had such magnificent forests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWithin a few decades, they were almost entirely cleared. If you travel across those Hauraki Plains, those green, flat, drained plains with their dairy farms, you may see gentle little pockets of beautiful conical trees in areas of swamp. Those are the regenerating echo of what was there. Those are young trees, but are 100 or 150 years old, at most. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThose huge, ancient forests were primarily burned. In 1882, when refrigeration was invented, much of the remnant was cut down to make butter boxes for export of our butter and our dairy products to Britain. Indeed, the Bagnall family set up a mill for harvesting the kahikatea trees to make the butter boxes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIn the years between 1909 and 1917 alone, the remains of kahikatea were reduced by 63 percent. In 1913, a royal commission was asked to determine how areas of New Zealand still remaining under forest should be dealt with. It said, \u201CAs is well known, the soil of the white-pine swamps, when drained and the trees removed, forms one of the richest agricultural land, which when grassed is [extremely useful] for dairy farms.\u201D, and thus the remnant of those magnificent forests were milled. The Bagnall brothers\u2019 riverbank mill at Turua cut down the trees, and the descendants of that family would lament their loss. In 1937, a woman reported in a newspaper article \u201CWhere the Village slew the Forest\u201D, about a grand and noble forest, that it was \u201Cthe beginning of the end for the feathered world that inhabited its depths.\u201D, and in 1984, in her book about Turua, Shirley Bagnall wrote of her deep sorrow at \u201Cthe death of\u00A0the\u00A0trees that had taken such ages to grow\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI tell all this because one of the untold stories of colonisation is the massive destruction of nature\u2014the massive destruction of the extractive industries that were brought by the coloniser. Those industries destroyed the actual livelihood of tangata whenua M\u0101ori, the traditional life and culture, and the means of food acquisition and propagation that had sustained those iwi for many years, and here, in the Hauraki, Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui are a glaring example of it. Also, when the goldminers came, they poured the cyanide into the Waihou River, so it is accounted that 300 iwi lost their source of water. These are the impacts of this sort of extractive and destructive colonisation, aside from the injustice of the very theft of the land\u2014the utter destruction of the ecological structure of it. This is a loss for all humanity, I would say\u2014those magnificent forests\u2014but it must be such a bitter loss for the iwi who were the kaitiaki of those forests. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI note that Andrew Little said that the Crown will apologise for confiscating large tracts of land, as well as for the policies and laws that were designed to dislocate Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui from their land, to erode their tribal structure\u2014and, rightly, that is a just apology for a terrible loss\u2014and, also, I would add, to destroy the ecological basis of the society and the culture of the livelihood of those people. So we support this settlement; it is never enough. It is irreplaceable what is lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWe do not, as Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki\u2014as we have articulated before\u2014support the idea of full and final settlements. It seems, in a sense, to be adding a final insult to injury to suggest that they should be full and final. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIf we are to have a just basis for society and our land, it must be based on a recognition of the history of the means of our presence here as tangata Tiriti. It must be based on a reciprocal recognition of the right to self-determination of tangata whenua M\u0101ori, of upholding of Te\u00A0Tiriti o Waitangi, and of a seeing and a sighting and a knowing and a remembering of the history that has befallen the people\u2014the proud indigenous people\u2014of our land. So, in that regard, we commend this bill to the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022613b44ee390949a588f00bff6d942e36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022613b44ee390949a588f00bff6d942e36\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E The ACT Party is pleased to support this bill. It restores the property rights and provides compensation for an iwi which had their property taken in an unjust way, and it was in breach of the Treaty of Waitangi. So the ACT Party is very pleased to support this bill as reported back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui have suffered significant harm as individuals, as an iwi, and as the people of the Hauraki Plains, and that resulted from the confiscation of a large tract of land by the Crown in the Tauranga area which included their traditional lands. It was not clear to me from reading the summary\u2014the historical account\u2014what the role was of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui at the time that led to their lands being confiscated. It\u2019s not clear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EHowever, confiscation, or raupatu, was a common punishment for rebellion under the British and under other empires, and not just in New Zealand. It was common, going back to medieval times in Britain, for example, that rebellions were punished by confiscating land. The difference between medieval times and now, though, is that New Zealand is a country which believes in the rule of law protecting property rights, although they have been severely eroded. There is an opportunity to address the wrongs of the past, and that\u2019s what this settlement bill does in some small way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EAs the previous speaker, Steve Abel, mentioned, it\u2019s not possible to restore Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui to their previous status. It\u2019s not possible to return all the land. In fact, the historical account indicates that after having land confiscated, and after selling a large amount of land\u2014although it\u2019s not made clear, it appears that that was to pay bills\u2014they were left with only 232 acres of land by 1995. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EI think what\u2019s also important to acknowledge\u2014and it\u2019s stated very clearly here in the historical account\u2014is that the iwi were seeking to develop their land. They had signed an agreement with the Crown to establish a goldfield. They were supporting the investigation of goldmining on their land because goldmining at that time\u2014in 1870\u2014was seen as a fantastic contributor to economic and social development where it occurred, and iwi like Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui could have benefited from it. But it appears that the iwi never got to benefit from it, because some of the commercial arrangements that they entered into were all cost and no reward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIt appears that their property rights have been infringed many times over the years. That\u2019s why the ACT Party is pleased to see this settlement bill come before the House. It upholds the property rights, restores the mana, and provides for this iwi to grow and develop their lands and to attain some kind of economic sovereignty within the laws of New Zealand. With that, the ACT Party commends this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u0022403fb902716341d3b9078435cc1279db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022403fb902716341d3b9078435cc1279db\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. I rise to speak to the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Claims Settlement Bill, and it is very good to see this claims settlement legislation being advanced. We\u2019ve seen a number of claims settlement bills advanced this year, and it\u2019s good to see that, because it helps us to move through the process of setting right some of the wrongs which have been done in the past and being able to move forward together as a united nation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWe heard the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations say that this process has been going on\u2014well, I guess, from the perspective of the iwi, this process has been going on for 180-odd years. But in terms of the actual response to the legislation, or to getting a settlement process under way, it\u2019s been a good 25 years, and 13 years since the negotiations began. Like others, I want to acknowledge all the iwi members who have been part of this who are, sadly, no longer with us, because these things do take a long time and it means that some of the people who start out leading these processes at the beginning\u2014and I know; I\u2019m aware of some of those processes in the Wellington region\u2014are, sadly, no longer with us at the end of these processes. So I salute all of those members of the iwi\u2014the t\u012Bpuna who are no longer with us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI also, like others, want to acknowledge the negotiators and the officials who\u2019ve been involved in this process, because I know that a lot of work goes into it. It\u2019s actually been really, really interesting to just listen to some of the history that we\u2019ve been hearing today, because that history is rich. It\u2019s sad, it\u2019s challenging, but it is history none the less, and it is good to have that history brought to our attention. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EAlso, while we don\u2019t have members of the iwi here with us in person, I hope that some are watching tonight, and I do hope\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b06de8b300d413bafd115e436aed5aa\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ll be watching.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268868c840bb7432e8f399dfe94f49ea4\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014they\u2019ll be watching\u2014that, as we have seen in the past, when we get to that final reading, the galleries are indeed full and there is a sense of celebration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti Tara Tokanui is a small iwi, we hear, of less than a thousand members, but that doesn\u2019t mean it is not important, and I\u2019d just like to point out that we are also a small nation, but that doesn\u2019t mean that we don\u2019t think that we\u2019re important. We are the centre of our own universe, and for Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, that is the centre of their own universe, as well. So it is a really important piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWe know that there are three parts of the Treaty, and when you look at those three parts, you can see the way in which those three parts were breached. Establishing British Government and laws and protections\u2014those protections, clearly, were breached. The agreement to the rights of undisturbed possession of lands, forests, and fisheries\u2014well, quite clearly, the confiscation of most of the iwi\u2019s land was a breach of the Treaty. Thirdly, the rights of equal citizenship\u2014well, I didn\u2019t see the Crown in those days doing the same to British or other settlers as they did to the iwi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo this bill is clear that the Crown\u2014the Government\u2014breached these obligations of protection and these obligations of the right to undisturbed possession of lands, forests, and fisheries. We\u2019ve heard from the ACT Party how important property rights are, and I\u00A0just would say to the whole House that sometimes the greatest protections we actually need are not from foreign powers or anyone else; they are from our own Government. We do not have many checks and balances in our system, and it\u2019s something that we should be giving a lot of attention to so that we have protections and balances against all of us and the decisions that we might make going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe bill tells the history, and the apology is a really, really important part of this bill, going forward. It provides for the return of some land under cultural redress\u2014we\u2019ve seen nine specific sites\u2014and it also provides for some financial redress. It\u2019s only $6\u00A0million, but, again, it\u2019s a small iwi, and it\u2019s a small compensation for the wrong that was done. It also provides for the recognition of some important associations with some important places.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EIt also provides for some ongoing relationships going forward. So it\u2019s not only looking backwards and providing compensation but also saying, looking forward, that there is an important ongoing relationship with the Department of Conservation Te Papa Atawhai. It was good to hear that very sad story that Steve Abel has just been telling about the destruction of the natural environment that was here long before human beings even existed\u2014millions and millions and millions of years before the destruction that was done. In fact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fc56acf5fe1409394b9aa99d66fa646\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: It was good to hear it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227570d2f8954c4a2fbd158ee1ccdb4a8a\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it was good to hear it, but it was also bad to hear it\u2014but we know that. Since human beings have arrived in this land, it has been a disaster for the natural environment, and our responsibility is to try and turn that around and make it better rather than worse. If we can make it better than we found it, then we\u2019ve done something that is worthwhile doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EJust to finish off with, these settlements are really, really important for all of us to help us move forward together as a united people\u2014a united people in all our rich diversity. I\u2019m just going to finish off by saying some of the principles that New Zealand First holds which I think are relevant to this. First of all, we\u2019re standing behind those principles of fairness, of justice, and of upholding the Treaty of Waitangi. We also know that we need to right the wrongs of the past and we need to ensure that all New Zealanders, regardless of their ethnicity, are treated equitably under the law\u2014and, clearly, that didn\u2019t happen in this case in the past. Our party also stands for being committed to fostering strong relationships based on mutual respect and on understanding between the Crown and M\u0101ori. These things are essential as we go forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo why do we support the bill? It is about restorative justice, and that is a really, really important principle. It is about honouring the Treaty. It is about fostering trust and cooperation and building a more inclusive society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, New Zealand First strongly supports this bill. Again, we thank all the people who have put so much effort and so much mana into this, and we look forward to it progressing through the committee stage, and then to a final reading. Then, truly, the iwi can celebrate the return of their mana, and the return of these significant cultural areas of land and some small financial compensation. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227c24ebfc80a34e1d843ba65d3c7126c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c24ebfc80a34e1d843ba65d3c7126c4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a five-minute split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u0022d74372fada1741589bc5dfe43b152b23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d74372fada1741589bc5dfe43b152b23\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe, e te P\u012Bka. Otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. E t\u016B ana ahau ki te waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei p\u014D. Heoi an\u014D, hei t\u016B hei m\u0101ngai hoki m\u014D t\u014Dku rohe o Hauraki Waikato. In\u0101 te maringa nui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EKei aku parepare, kei aku whakaruruhau t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koutou katoa kua whakarauika mai ki r\u014D P\u0101remata i te p\u014D nei. \u0100io nuku, \u0101io rangi, \u0101io te pou herenga tangata o te motu a Kingi T\u016Bheitia, rirerire hau pai m\u0101rire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EE tangihia ana ki ng\u0101 mate, t\u0101ruru nui o Pare Hauraki o Pare Waikato kua hoki atu ki te parekawakawa o Pare\u0101rau ki reira r\u0101tou ka tangi ki konei \u014D r\u0101tou uri mokopuna, e waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113nei pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EPare Hauraki, Pare Waikato nei r\u0101 te t\u016B, nei r\u0101 te mihi ki a koutou e whakarongo ana i te k\u0101inga, ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pouaka whakaata, \u0101, kua t\u016B mai m\u0101tou ki te tautoko katoa i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. Ko Pare Hauraki ko Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui he uri r\u0101tou n\u014D ng\u0101 k\u0101wai whakapapa o Whatihua r\u0101ua ko Ruap\u016Btahanga. Ko t\u014D r\u0101tou Rangatira ko Te Keepa Raharuhi. E mihi ana, ka nui taku reo whakamiha, ka nui taku reo maioha e tuku karere atu ana ki a koutou ng\u0101 mana whenua o t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EKo Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 iwi i muri r\u0101n\u014D ko t\u014D r\u0101tou nei ingoa ko Ng\u0101ti Koi, i t\u0113nei w\u0101 tonu kei te tuku au i te aroha. N\u014Dku te maringa nui n\u014Dku te haepapa nui i roto i a P\u0101remata i t\u0113nei w\u0101 tonu. Kua k\u014Drerotia e au ki ng\u0101 pire e wh\u0101 i roto i t\u014Dku ake rohe ki roto i t\u014Dku ake iwi. Ko Ng\u0101ti Hei t\u0113n\u0101, ko Ng\u0101ti Paoa t\u0113n\u0101, ko \u014Cr\u0101kau t\u0113n\u0101. \u0100, i t\u0113nei p\u014D ko Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui t\u0113n\u0101. N\u014D reira ahakoa t\u014Dku w\u0101 iti ki konei, ka nui taku maringa nui ki t\u0113n\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira ki ng\u0101 p\u0101ti katoa o t\u0113nei Whare ahakoa noho mai ki konei, ahakoa noho mai ki kon\u0101. Kua tautokotia katoa e r\u0101tou \u0113nei pire katoa, n\u014D reira koinei te reo mihi o t\u014Dku iwi ake o t\u014Dku rohe ki a koutou i tautoko i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ETe kau m\u0101 rua o ng\u0101 iwi ki roto o Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, ki roto mai o Hauraki. Ko te pokap\u016B o t\u014Dna rohe whai p\u0101nga, ko Paeroa. Whakateuru atu i reira ki te Manaia o Hauraki, whakateraki an\u014D hoki ki te p\u016Btake o te tara o te ika a M\u0101ui, ki Wharekawa. N\u014D reira, te kau m\u0101 rua o ng\u0101 iwi ki roto mai o Hauraki, ki roto mai o Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EKa nui taku mihi ki ng\u0101 rangatira kua whakawh\u0101riki i t\u0113nei pire, ki a Russell Karu r\u0101ua ko Amelia Williams n\u0101 koutou an\u014D t\u0113nei pire, t\u0113nei take raupatu i kuhu mai ki r\u014D P\u0101remata. I roto i t\u0101ku titirohanga ki roto i t\u0113nei take raupatu take kereme, ka tiro au ki te nui o ng\u0101 hua i a Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. P\u0113nei i te koura, p\u0113nei i te k\u014Dhuke, minerals, p\u0113nei ki te huhua o ng\u0101 kai me te wai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[Greetings, dear Speaker. Also greetings to everyone here in the House. I stand to represent Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori this evening. However, I also stand to represent my region of Hauraki Waikato. A huge honour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EMy dear esteemed, my dear formidable, salutations to you all who have assembled here to this Parliament this evening. Peace to the land, peace to the skies, and peace be to what ties us people all together, King T\u016Bheitia, rirerire hau pai m\u0101rire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EWe mourn for our dead, the many of Pare Hauraki of Pare Waikato who have returned to Pare\u0101rau, in which their descendants are here representing them in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EPare Hauraki and Pare Waikato, I stand to acknowledge you who have tuned in from your home television, and, we are all here to support this bill. Pare Hauraki and Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui are descendants of Whatihua and Ruap\u016Btahanga. Their prominent leader is Te Keepa Raharuhi. I have immense respect, and acknowledge with these words the home people in which this bill pertains to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EIn times of old, Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui\u2019s name was Ng\u0101ti Koi, and so right now I would like to send my love. It is my honour and my responsibility within this Parliament right now. I have spoken to the four bills within my own region and people. Ng\u0101ti Hei, Ng\u0101ti Paoa, and \u014Cr\u0101kau. And this evening, it is Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. And so despite the little time I have here, it is still a huge honour for me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ESo to all the parties of this House no matter if you sit on this side or on that side, we all are supporting this bill. And so this is the heartfelt acknowledgments of my people to you all supporting this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EThere are 12 subtribes that make up the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui confederation in Hauraki. The centre of this region is at Paeroa. To the west from there is Manaia of Hauraki, to the north as well is the centre of Te Tara o te Ika a M\u0101ui, at Whakarewa. So then, 12\u00A0subtribes within the Hauraki region, Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI immensely acknowledge the esteemed leaders who helped with this bill: to Russell Karu and Amelia Williams, this is your bill, the confiscation made by this Parliament. What I observe within this claim are the many assets within Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. Like gold, like minerals, like all the food sources and water.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI have been doing multiple hakas, m\u014Dteatea, and waiata in Parliament, but that\u2019s my way of expressing and articulating the best form that I know on how deep\u2014and no P\u0101keh\u0101 words can articulate, for me, Treaty settlements. So I must end with this waiata apakura a t\u0101 K\u012Bngi T\u0101whiao m\u014Dt\u014Dna uri [song of lament of Kingi T\u0101whiao for his descendants], which clearly reflects this Treaty settlement bill of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EKa m\u0101takitaki iho au ki te riu o Waikato\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EAn\u014D nei he kapo kau ake m\u0101ku ki te kapu o taku ringa\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EKa whakamiri noa i t\u014Dna ara tau\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EE tia nei he tupu kua hou\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[I look down on the valley of Waikato\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EAs though to hold it in the hollow of my hand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EAnd caress its beauty\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003ELike some tender verdant thing]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EKo t\u0113nei waiata tangi n\u0101 K\u012Bngi T\u0101whiao i waiata, i tangi m\u014Dteatea. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[This is a song of lament sung by Kingi T\u0101whiao as he grieved.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EThis was Kingi T\u0101whiao\u2019s tangi to his land on the return to seeing his land confiscated, and it talks about the many different resources, ar\u0101 te rarirari o Waikato, and it\u2019s plentiful. So ng\u0101 mihi ki a t\u0101tou e te Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4e31bfd2d6d4af9b16fc569ffd79ff7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4e31bfd2d6d4af9b16fc569ffd79ff7\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E mihi ana ki a t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei p\u014D. He reo mihi t\u0113nei ki ng\u0101 whanaunga o Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. Ko ng\u0101 uri o Tara, te hononga o Te Awap\u016B, he mokopuna o t\u0113nei tupuna, o Tara, ka moe i a Te Rae, n\u014D Ng\u0101 M\u0101rama an\u014D hoki. Ka puta ko t\u0113nei iwi rangatira o t\u0101tou, ko Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EE mihi ana ki ng\u0101 rangatira o t\u0113r\u0101 rautau, ar\u0101 ko Taiwhakaea, ko Matarehua, ko Tikitearoha, me Te Whakamaromaioro. \u0112nei o ng\u0101 rangatira i whakapaua te kaha m\u014D te ora o t\u0113nei iwi o t\u0101tou, o Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E[I greet us all this evening. This is a voice of greeting to the relatives of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. To the descendants of Tara, the connection of Te Awap\u016B, a grandchild of this ancestor, of Tara, who married Te Rae, who was also from the Ng\u0101 M\u0101rama people. From this union emerged this noble people of ours, Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the leadership of last century, Taiwhakaea, Matarehua, Tikitaaroha, and Te Whakamaromaioro. These leaders, who expended their strength for the wellbeing of this iwi of ours, of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI wish to acknowledge those t\u016Bpuna of the times of the 1800s that saw the confiscation of large blocks of their whenua, sold by others to the Crown, and, as I heard from my colleague, the way with which the map was already laid out for how colonisation was to roll out in Hauraki\u2014thank you, Banks. Thank you, Banks, for what you did in mapping out how you were going to raupatu whenua for our people of the Coromandel. Why do I say thanks? I don\u2019t say thanks happily; I say thanks, because that\u2019s what we got. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EWe have an iwi that lost 290,000 acres around the Tauranga Katikati rohe. It was sold by others to the Crown, and this is not something dissimilar, because the Crown had a kaupapa of individualisation of title and seeking to purchase large tracts of our land out from underneath the iwi who actually lived there. That is the experience of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EAs I read the history and I reflect on even the marine and coastal area claims\u2014the takutai moana claims that this iwi has currently live for their rohe moana\u2014I think of the gestures of mahi tahi, and it is true: they tried to engage in an economy which was not ours, aka those minefields. In the 1860s, we saw rangatira try to align and work with the Crown to establish minefields in their tribal rohe. Now, again, we see the individualisation of title as a means to alienate the whenua from this iwi rangatira, and while we might reflect and say, \u201CWell they\u2019re a small iwi. They\u2019re doing pretty good, and this settlement is about fairness and justice and honouring Te Tiriti.\u201D, well, I argue it isn\u2019t, because I\u00A0want to mihi to the Red Book. For those of you that don\u2019t know the Red Book, that\u2019s the Crown rule book for Treaty settlements, and this iwi, Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui\u2014as in the tribes of Hauraki\u2014have done their best according to the rules set by the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EBecause the Crown sets the rules, the Crown negotiates, and the Crown seeks to save a dollar and not spend a dollar, there is no justice for this iwi. They are trying to rebuild their iwi. The $100,000 offered to them for revitalisation\u2014when you are stripped of your land, your language and culture, and $6 million is offered to you as your settlement, full and final, for all your losses for 184 years? Meinga meinga, n\u0101 wai i tika. T\u0113nei mahi he mahi rangatira n\u0101 te K\u0101wanatanga? K\u0101hore, k\u0101hore. E mihi nui ana ahau ki t\u0113nei iwi o t\u0101tou e noho p\u014Dhara nei m\u014D te w\u0101 roa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E[Is that so? According to who? Is this a prestigious effort made by the Government? Incorrect, incorrect. I acknowledge this nation of ours who have been in poverty for a long time.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EBut within the rules of the Red Book, they did their best, and they\u2019ve negotiated this very small settlement\u2014because, you see, $1.6 billion was offered to South Canterbury Finance. If we want to do what\u2019s right, then there is plenty of opportunity for a willing Crown to do what\u2019s right and support Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui to truly re-establish their tribal footprint in their tribal rohe. This is about raupatu, this is about t\u0101hae, and if we want to really honour Te Tiriti, look at offering a genuine compensation package that can re-establish this tribe, t\u0113nei iwi rangatira o t\u0101tou ki runga i t\u014D r\u0101tou ake whenua [this esteemed nation of ours on their own land]. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ESo thank you for Paeroa School\u2014that\u2019s a good contribution. Thank you for the seven properties that are being offered to Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. But, as an uri of Hauraki, I say, wow! When will we, as this House, genuinely uphold Te Tiriti o Waitangi? When will we come as negotiators and look at something that is a redress package that will uphold the mana of these tribes who have lost so much? N\u014D reira e te Whare, t\u0113nei taku \u012Bnoi ki a t\u0101tou te Whare P\u0101remata. Kia ora. [So, dear House, this is my plea to us, the parliamentary House. Kia ora.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022 data-id=\u0022206f7b97e22846bca1e84721e10bf047\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022206f7b97e22846bca1e84721e10bf047\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E Kia whakakor\u014Driatia te ingoa o te Atua, te putanga mai o te r\u0101, tae noa ki t\u014Dna torengitanga. E te M\u0101ngai, i te putanga mai o te r\u0101 i t\u0113nei ata i au e oma ana, he momo ona, ki ng\u0101 m\u0101r\u0101 hua ota i raro te menemene o Tama nui te r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EKa huri \u014Dku whakaaro ki te mahi e whai ake nei. Ki te mahi \u0101 muri ki t\u014Dna torengitanga. Ki t\u0113nei k\u014Drero ki te \u0101heitanga te t\u016B an\u014D i roto i t\u0113nei Whare whakahirahira te tautoko he pire whakataunga kereme an\u014D kia whai atu te whakarauora o te mana Motuhake o te tino rangatiratanga o he iwi an\u014D. \u0100, te korero e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei Kaupapa i te reo o te whenua, h\u012Bkaka au. He piki te ora. Ehara au i te matatau o te reo, heoi he h\u014Dhonu taku aroha m\u014D te reo o te rangi. He wh\u0101nui taku wawata m\u014D te whakap\u016B\u0101wai an\u014D te reo o ng\u0101 atua. N\u0101 reira, ka whakahua te nuinga o \u014Dku whakaaro i te reo taketake. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EKo t\u014Dku tumanako he t\u012Bno whakaute ki ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata o Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. Ka whakamana te pire nei i ng\u0101 ritenga e tika ana kia whakaturetia i roto i te whakaetanga whakataunga i waitohua r\u0101 i te 28\u00A0o H\u016Brae 2022 i te Karauna me Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. Ko Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui he iwi e tau ana ki ng\u0101 whenua huri noa i Paeroa i te rohe o Hauraki. I te tatauranga 2018 he 830 ng\u0101 uri o Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, nui taku mihi ki a koutou katoa. Ko Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 iwi me ng\u0101 hap\u016B 12 e whai p\u0101nga ana ki te rohe o Hauraki. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EI te tau 2009 ka piri tahi ko te Pare Hauraki Collective, ko te whiriwhiri whakataunga tiriti te take. Ka oti i te Karauna me te K\u0101hui nei te whakaetanga te waitohu i te tau 2018, \u0101, t\u0113nei te pire kei te aroaro o te Whare nei. Ka whai te pire whakataunga kereme a Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui ki te whakatau i ng\u0101 kereme Tiriti o Waitangi h\u012Btori a Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui m\u0101 te whakamana i ng\u0101 puretumu \u0101-iwi tonu e tika ana kia whakaturetia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EKei te w\u0101hanga tuatahi o te pire ko \u0113nei. Tuatahi, ko t\u0113tahi whakar\u0101popoto o te takinga k\u014Drero h\u012Btori o roto i te whakaetanga whakataunga. Ko te mahi tino, te mahi o te h\u012Btori kia kore ai t\u0101tou te h\u012Btori o t\u0113nei whenua o t\u0113nei iwi. Tuarua, ko ng\u0101 whakapuakanga, ng\u0101 w\u0101w\u0101hitanga a te Karauna i te Tiriti me \u014Dna m\u0101t\u0101pono e p\u0101 ai ng\u0101 taumahatanga ki k\u014D. \u0100 wairua hoki ki a Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. Ko te whakap\u0101ha a te Karauna m\u014Dna i kore r\u0101 i tiaki i a Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui i te rironga o te whenua. Te peinga o te iwi o r\u0101tou p\u0101, me \u014D r\u0101tou kainga, me te t\u016Bkinotanga \u0101-taiao ki ng\u0101 awa e rua. Te mutunga k\u0113 mai o t\u0113r\u0101 momo t\u016Bkino, t\u0101 te k\u014Drero a Steve Abel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EKei te w\u0101hanga tuarua ng\u0101 ritenga puretumu \u0101-tikanga tae atu ki te whakahokinga o \u0113tahi w\u0101hi whakahirahira, iwi ki te iwi. E rua o \u0113r\u0101 ka whakahokia tahitia ki \u0113tahi atu iwi hoki. Ko \u0113tahi o ng\u0101 w\u0101hi nei ko ng\u0101 Uritara ko Mimitu P\u0101 ko T\u0101whiti Paraia me Karangahake. Kei te w\u0101hanga tuatoru ko \u0113tahi ritenga puretumu \u0101-tauhoko. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EK\u0101ore \u0113tahi w\u0101hanga o te whakaetanga whakataunga e herea kia whakamanatia \u0101-turetia me te aha k\u0101ore e takoto mai ki te pire. Ko \u0113nei, ko te puretumu \u0101-p\u016Btea, \u0101-tauhoko, hoko 6\u00A0miriona. Ko te kupu taurangi kia uru ki t\u0113tahi whakaetanga whakahoanga me te Papa Atawhai. Ko \u0113tahi reta takawaenga, reta whakatakinga r\u0101nei i \u0113tahi K\u0101wanatanga o te motu, o te rohe hoki. Ko te tau\u0101ki piringa ki Moehau maunga ki te taone o Te Aroha hoki, ko te puretumu \u0101-tikanga e $444,000 te nui m\u014D te whakarauoranga o te ahurea me \u0113tahi atu take hoki me \u0101ta whakatakoto. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EK\u012Bhai te k\u014Drero o te Minita o mua, te Minita \u0100naru Paku, ahakoa e kore rawa e taea e t\u0113tahi rahinga puretumu te utu an\u014D ng\u0101 mahi kino a te Karauna i mua ki a Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, ka whakaratau te t\u016B\u0101papa te puretumu i t\u0113nei whakaetanga hei whakapakari i te taha ohaoha o Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui ki anamata. Ka whakarite an\u014D hoki ka \u0101hukahukatia te hononga ahurea i waenganui i a Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui me ng\u0101 w\u0101hi ahurea whakahirahira m\u014D ng\u0101 whakatupuranga kei te heke mai nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E[Glory to God, the rising of the sun to sundown. At the break of dawn this morning as\u00A0I was out running\u2014well, sort of running\u2014to the gardens whilst the sun was smiling below. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EMy thoughts turn to the matter that is at hand, and to its completion. To this debate and the honour to stand within this formidable House and support the settlement claim bill to ensure the restoration of their nation\u2019s sovereign and independence, and to speak to this bill in the language of the land, I am delighted. It is a blessing. I am not competent in the M\u0101ori language. However, I have deep admiration towards this language. I have huge aspirations to see the language of the gods thrive again. Therefore, the most part of my speech will be spoken in the indigenous language.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EMy hope is to show much respect towards the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui nation. This bill honours to correct the wrongs in this settlement claim that was signed on 28 July 2022 between the Crown and Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui are the people that stretch from the Paeroa area towards the Hauraki region. According to the 2018 stats, there were 830 Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui descendants, salutations to you all. Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui is one of the 12 nations that relate to the Hauraki region. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EIn 2009, Pare Hauraki Collective was established to work on the Treaty negotiations. The Crown and this collective signed the agreement in 2018, and so this is the bill before the House today. The settlement claim bill aims to address the obligations of the Treaty of Waitangi and the history of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui by seeking to rectify iwi redress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EHere is in the first part of the bill. Firstly, is a summary of the history within the settlement claim. Its purpose is to ensure we don\u2019t forget the history of this land. Secondly are the declarations and the breaches of the Treaty principles done by the Crown in which the people of that area were heavily affected, spiritually as well for Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui; the apology of the Crown for breaching its obligations to protect Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui from land confiscation; the banishing of the people from their villages, and their homes and the destruction made on the environment and the two rivers. Such a destruction was caused, said Steve Abel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EThe second section seeks to redress the protocols and the return of some significant areas of the people. Two of those will be returned to other nations, as well. Some of these significant areas are Uritara, Mimitu P\u0101, T\u0101whiti Paraia, and Karangahake. In the third section, it seeks to redress the economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EThere are some parts of the settlement claim that aren\u2019t to be made legislation; as a result, that is not supported in this bill. This is the financial redress of $6 million. There is a promise made to enter a partnership with Papa Atawhai. There are negotiating letters, and introduction letters as well throughout the councils of the land and the region. The promise of Moehau maunga and the town of Te Aroha as well\u2014it\u2019s the cultural redress of $444,000 to revive the culture and other promises also should be set forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EThe former Minister Andrew Little said that although the redress cannot completely pay for the destruction to Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui caused by the Crown, this redress sets the foundation for this settlement to strengthen the future economy of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. This sets to recognise the cultural connection between Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui and the significant places for the future generation.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003ELet me finish my thoughts now in te reo P\u0101keh\u0101. As the previous Minister has said, while no redress can fully compensate for the Crown\u2019s past injustices against Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, the redress in this settlement does provide a foundation for the economic future of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui to build upon, and it ensures that the cultural relationship between Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui and sites of cultural significance is recognised for generations to come. It\u2019s a beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003ESecondly, this settlement serves as a vital step towards healing the deep wounds inflicted upon Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. This is about recognising the mamae that has echoed through generations, and it seeks to restore the mana motuhake that was compromised. This acknowledgment is not merely a formal gesture; it\u2019s a profound acceptance of historical truths. That\u2019s what I spoke about earlier: historical truths that pave the way for genuine reconciliation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EThirdly, this settlement reinvigorates the rangatiratanga of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, allowing them to chart a course towards a future defined by their aspirations. It\u2019s about more than compensation. It\u2019s a restoration of sovereignty over their resources, enabling them to decide how their lands are nurtured and how their people are sustained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003EFinally, the resilience and unwavering advocacy of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui reflects their deep commitment to returning to their \u016Bkaip\u014D\u2014their place of origin. Their journey through the complexities of negotiations demonstrates a profound dedication to reclaiming not just land but a sense of home and belonging, and of re-establishing their physical and spiritual connection to the whenua that breathes life into their stories and into their traditions. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00228d9be3e7295e4378b4b48fb107059afb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d9be3e7295e4378b4b48fb107059afb\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Ko te mihi tuatahi ki te Atua, n\u0101na nei ng\u0101 mea katoa. Ko te mihi tuarua ki te Whare e t\u016B nei, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EApiti hono, t\u0101tai hono, te hunga mate ki te hunga mate. Apiti hono, t\u0101tai hono, te hunga ora ki te hunga ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EHe mihi mahana t\u0113nei ki te iwi Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. He mihi mahana ki a koutou katoa. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, huihui mai t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E[My first acknowledgment is to God, who is the creator of all. My second acknowledgment is to this House; I thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThose who have passed on, to those who have passed on. We the living, to the living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI extend my warm greetings to Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. My warmest greetings to us all. I thank you all who have gathered here.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIt has taken many years for Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui to reach this point on the long road which is the settlement journey. First, I would like to acknowledge those t\u012Bpuna of the iwi who have since passed away, who have given many hours and many days of their lives for this settlement process to reach this point in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the negotiators Russell Karu and Amelia Williams for their dedication to their people, and also for being part of the settlement since it began back in 2011. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge those trustees of the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Trust, and also those who will have a pathway in administering the assets and the cultural redress that this settlement package delivers. On the Crown side, both Rick Barker and Michael Dreaver have had a key role in negotiating over the many years that have passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe deed of settlement itself with Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui began at Ngahutoitoi Marae when, in 2011, iwi members formally gave the mandate to begin negotiations, and the path then began. An agreement in principle was then reached in 2011 and the deed of settlement was signed here, in Parliament, in 2017, and the first reading of this bill was around Matariki last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe deed of settlement itself records the Crown\u2019s acknowledgment and apology for its breaches of the Treaty in relation to Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, and I think it\u2019s worthwhile to go through a few of those in order to understand what is the purpose of this redress in terms of the grievances that are being attempted to be resolved. Between 1865 and 1868, the Crown confiscated 290,000 acres around Tauranga, including lands in which Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui had interests, and then, from around 1868, the rangatira Te Keepa Raharuhi entered agreements for gold prospecting and mining on Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui lands in the hope that they would be able to retain some ownership over those lands and also potentially gain some income from the leases in the mining agreements. But, instead, as with similar iwi around the Hauraki area, that was not the case, and this is a common tale in the story of colonisation in New Zealand. The Native Land Court processes left this iwi in debt and the Crown\u2019s lease arrangements for mining at Ohinemuri did not provide Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui any income from the goldmining on their lands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ELater, the Crown purchased the operation of the Native land laws, and the Public Works Act took further land, alienating the iwi further and fragmenting Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. The land was divided up so they could not stay in one place together. Then, in 1865\u2014and this is, I think, an important thing to note\u2014the Crown authorised discharge of the mine tailings, which included cyanide-treated waste, into the Ohinemuri and Waihou rivers. Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui used the rivers as water sources for washing, for drinking, and for using on their crops, and those poisons that were discharged into the natural environment caused illness and death within that community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Crown actions and omissions caused harm to Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui communities, wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi, and left Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui virtually landless by the 1920s. In the deed of settlement, the Crown acknowledges that until now it has failed to address the longstanding grievances of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui in an appropriate way and that the recognition of and provision of redress for these grievances and the breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi are long overdue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would just like to pause for a moment and reflect that it is over 120 years ago since the Crown rode roughshod over the environment and breached the Treaty of Waitangi in order to mine natural resources. As I say those words, it\u2019s great that here, in the House today, we\u2019re all singing off the same song sheet, but it is important to note that there is legislation within this very House now that proposes to do those same wrongs that have been done in the past. There is no difference in what these breaches were in our history 120 years ago to what is proposed: to ignore the Treaty, and also to ride roughshod over environmental protections for mining and natural resources. The Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Claims Settlement Bill will give effect and will give compensation for the wrongs of the past, and maybe we will be here in another 120 years, redressing the wrongs that will go on in the next few years here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe final redress of $6 million is a small amount, as noted, compared to the losses sustained by this iwi, but it is important to note that I really hope that it provides some certainty and foundations for the iwi to move forward in the future. The vesting of seven sites of cultural significance in Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, including Mimitu P\u0101 and Tawhitiaraia\u2014two sites are jointly vested in the iwi Hako and Ng\u0101ti Tamater\u0101, including Karangahake. The Karangahake area is especially important as this holds special significance to Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. It has been described by the people as their heart\u2014manawa\u2014of their rohe, and I\u2019m pleased to see that the relationship with this area will be recognised by the redress provided through the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe redress includes relationship protocols with Crown agencies, and also it provides the ability for statements of association with 14 areas of significance, including the very river I spoke about\u2014the Ohinemuri River, and its tributaries\u2014and that is enhancing Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui\u2019s ability to participate in resource management processes, providing a strong partnership for working together in the future. It is providing an overlay classification, or whenua r\u0101hui, which provides for the Crown to acknowledge iwi values in relation to Karangahake Scenic Reserve, and also a cultural redress payment for Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui cultural revitalisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I\u2019m always kind of sad and happy on these bills. I\u2019m sad to see the hurt that has been done, but also pleased that this gives iwi an opportunity. It gives Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui an opportunity to have some more determination around their own\u00A0future and to make decisions that can benefit their people in the way that only they\u00A0know how. While no settlement package can ever, ever fully compensate the magnitude of loss, suffering, and prejudice, it is my real hope that this package provides some comfort, future hope, and sustenance to this iwi going forward. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022 data-id=\u0022d02ef7f5c4e84181a62504d0cad289b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d02ef7f5c4e84181a62504d0cad289b5\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is an honour and a privilege to rise and take a call on the second reading of the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui Claims Settlement Bill. May I first off please acknowledge the next significant step for the people of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, for the t\u012Bpuna who have long hoped for redress, and for all those who might be watching from home as we discuss and support the passing of this legislation that is aimed to finally bring some closure to the considerable and extraordinary acts of the past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EThe area that is covered by Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui covered a good section of the southern Coromandel, and extended from Thames across to Whangamat\u0101, south to Paeroa and Waih\u012B, including a large area of the northern Kaimai ranges. Negotiations with Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui began, as other colleagues have said earlier this evening, at Ngahutoitoi Marae in 2011, when iwi members formally gave the negotiators, Amelia Williams and Russell Karu, the mandate to negotiate a comprehensive historical Treaty settlement with the Crown on behalf of the iwi. An agreement in principle was reached in 2011, and a deed of settlement was initialled in 2017 and then signed here at Parliament in July last year. We acknowledge, of course, the work done by the negotiators, the Ministers Chris Finlayson and Andrew Little, Te Arawhiti, and all of those who have in some way contributed to the finalisation of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EThe deed also includes a Crown apology to Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui for its acts and omissions which breached its obligations under Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and for the damage those actions caused to Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. These include the promotion of laws and policies in Aotearoa New Zealand that led to the alienation of land, caused environmental damage to the Waihou and Ohinemuri rivers, eroded Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui tribal structures, and dislocated them from their p\u0101 and their k\u0101inga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EWhen we read the accounts of the Crown\u2019s actions of the past, it really does bring home the considerable mamae and ongoing angst that this iwi and hap\u016B went through as they watched their livelihood and ability to sustain meaningful lives literally drain away before their eyes. We must always, when speaking on these issues, acknowledge the patience and the ongoing commitment that the people of these iwi have demonstrated as they\u2019ve fought for their right to redress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EI wasn\u2019t part of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee that gathered the submissions on this piece of legislation in the past parliamentary term, but I have read the submissions and the reports to ensure I could at least make some meaningful contribution to this debate, and it is indeed hard to fathom the continued persecution the people of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui experienced as they traversed the 19th and 20th centuries. As mentioned, it all started in 1865, when the Crown confiscated 290,000 acres of land in which Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui had an interest; from an ill-fated leasing arrangement of its land in the 1870s, which subsequently removed any income from gold and mineral mining for the tribe, to the next event which saw the Crown awarded 31,700 acres of land following those leasing issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EIn 1895, the Crown authorised the discharge of mine tailings, including cyanide-treated waste, into the Ohinemuri and Waihou rivers. Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui had used the rivers as water sources for washing and drinking, and it\u2019s alleged the discharges, of course, caused illness and, in some cases, death. In the early 1900s came the development of the Hauraki drainage system, designed to create farming land and prosperity, but not for Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. The Crown drained the land in the swamp, and then, to add insult to injury, took the remaining land under the Public Works Act in between 1978 and 1995. That, effectively, saw the iwi landholdings diminished to a mere 232 acres. As part of this bill, the Crown has made several acknowledgments about its failure to deal with the longstanding grievances of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui in an appropriate way, and that recognition of and provision of redress for these grievances is long overdue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EIn my early career, I worked for a very fine establishment called the Hauraki Herald, and, as part of that, there were many trips across the Hauraki rohe which included some of the significant sites of importance to this iwi. It is indeed a beautiful part of the world, and I have this week reflected on how we must take time to understand the landscape, the rivers, and the potential that was lost for this iwi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EThe Karangahake Gorge is now a cycleway and a tourist route. The area is especially significant to Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. It has been described as the manawa, or heart, of their rohe, and I\u2019m pleased their relationship with this area will be recognised by the redress through this bill. It would once have been a jewel in the crown of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, and I\u2019m hopeful that the iwi narrative of this part of the country will be well told going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EThis claim settlement bill will give effect to the package, which includes financial redress of $6\u00A0million, the vesting of seven sites of cultural significance, and two sites jointly vested with neighbouring iwi Hako and Ng\u0101ti Tamater\u0101, including Karangahake. The redress also includes relationship protocols with Crown agencies and various other aspects of it as well, including an overlay classification, or whenua r\u0101hui, which provides for the Crown to acknowledge iwi values in relation to Karangahake Scenic Reserve. We also note that Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui is a member of the Hauraki collective and will receive collective redress through the Pare Hauraki Collective Redress Deed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EThere is nothing that any of us can say that will make up for what happened in the 19th\u00A0and 20th centuries. To these people, the devastation of their whenua and their awa, and the lack of understanding of an iwi\u2019s connection to the land and what it means, will look beyond the physical and tangible nature of resources. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EThis settlement serves as a vital step towards healing the deep wounds inflicted upon Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. It\u2019s about recognising the mamae that has echoed through generations and it seeks to restore the mana motuhake that was compromised. This acknowledgment is not merely a formal gesture but a profound acceptance of historical truths that pave the way for genuine reconciliation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EThis settlement reinvigorates the rangatiratanga of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, allowing them to chart a course towards a future defined by their aspirations. It\u2019s about more than compensation. It\u2019s a restoration of connection to their resources, enabling them to decide how their land is nurtured and their people are sustained. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EWhilst after everything they\u2019ve been through, it seems simple to stand here and speak on a bill that, by all accounts, I\u2019ve only just become acquainted with. I genuinely want the people affected here, both past and present, to know that we hope the redress will go some way to providing hope, clarity, and aspiration for what they can now achieve with careful stewardship. Along with my colleagues, I urge the people of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui to embrace their future, to see a way forward, and to ensure that whatever they do post-settlement, they set themselves up for future security and enduring sustainability so that they can share their stories in a meaningful way and the small amount of p\u016Btea in this settlement can be the start of something great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EThere were a number of submissions that were sent in for this, and only one speaker wanted to be heard, but I think it\u2019s worth just thinking about a couple of those. The Thames-Coromandel District Council supported this bill and wanted the council to continue to develop an ongoing relationship with the iwi and the people of Hauraki through a multiplicity of formal and informal interactions. Ng\u0101ti Paoa Iwi Trust\u2014whom we just spoke about a couple of weeks ago in this House for their own Treaty settlement claims\u2014submitted, saying that they recognised the years of hard work, including by the negotiators Amelia Williams and Russell Karu, required to progress the settlement to this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EBut I think it\u2019s fitting to finish and conclude my speech tonight as we look towards a new future for Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui with the words of the former Mayor of Hauraki District, the wonderful Basil Morrison. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9f2db24cd784cf59b5fdeaa654d296b\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, Basil. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6a08b3f891940498baf15df832141d6\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! In his words, he said, \u201CThey have simply waited far too long to have their grievances heard and settled.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003EAs mentioned, National is pleased to support this piece of legislation, and I commend this bill to the House. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002220bf1d3afcfa49139735f7264831e05c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220bf1d3afcfa49139735f7264831e05c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a five-minute split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022 data-id=\u002282039bf913464e7c9fc53ddcdb6e472f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282039bf913464e7c9fc53ddcdb6e472f\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. Tuatahi m\u0101ku he mihi ki te w\u0101hi ngaro. Kua oti i aku hoa te mihi atu ki ng\u0101 t\u012Bpuna o Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. Kaha r\u0101tou i whawhai kia tae mai t\u0113nei pire ki mua i\u00A0a t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei p\u014D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D, i runga i t\u0113r\u0101 kei te mihi hoki au ki t\u0113r\u0101 aku hoa, a Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, n\u0101na i whakahua i te whakapapa o t\u0113nei iwi. Tuatahi kia m\u014Dhio ai m\u0101tou t\u014D r\u0101tou k\u0101wai whakapapa, tuarua kia rongo ai t\u0101tou kia k\u014Drero atu \u014D r\u0101tou ingoa kia rongo ai t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei p\u014D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EKua tae mai m\u0101tou ki te k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113nei mea te whakap\u0101h\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E[Thank you, and greetings to all. Firstly, I would like to acknowledge our departed. My friends have already acknowledged the ancestors of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. They have fought hard to get the bill before us this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EFurthermore, I would like to also acknowledge my friend Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, who recited the genealogy of this nation. Firstly, to shed some light on their chiefly genealogical ties, secondly also so that we can hear their names before us this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EWe have arrived here to speak to the apology.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EI just want to acknowledge the fact that we\u2019re here to acknowledge an apology, and I\u00A0had to actually google what the M\u0101ori word for \u201Capology\u201D was because I don\u2019t often have to make one. Hoi an\u014D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc8898a022334f8ab9c6b4fe6b6ba84a\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t tell stories. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b7b505681ee4ce791629dddf2849034\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, it\u2019s true\u2014I mean, I had to look up the English definition, as well, to be honest. You just text my husband\u2014he\u2019ll verify that. Hoi an\u014D, all jokes aside, I think it\u2019s important to acknowledge that. We\u2019ve acknowledged those who, 15 years ago, started these negotiations so that we may arrive today. That\u2019s such a long time. That\u2019s about as long as it would take for someone to get me to apologise\u2014hoi an\u014D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EIn acknowledging Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, I thought there\u2019s probably a generation who haven\u2019t actually heard the apology. So for those who are probably watching at home or who\u00A0may some point watch on social media, where most people seem to watch these days, I\u00A0thought that for the benefit of the taringa of ng\u0101 mokopuna, I would read out that apology tonight: \u201C(a) The Crown has prejudiced Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui by promoting laws and policies in New Zealand that led to the alienation of your whenua, caused environmental damage to the Waihou and Ohinemuri Rivers, eroded your tribal structures, and dislocated your people from their p\u0101 and k\u0101inga. The Crown has failed to uphold its obligations under te Tiriti o Waitangi \u2026 and has caused physical and spiritual hardship that is deeply felt today. (b) For its actions, which have caused Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui prejudice, and its breaches of te Tiriti o Waitangi \u2026 and its principles, the Crown is truly sorry. (c) The Crown hopes that this settlement marks a new beginning in which the relationship that has been damaged can be restored, and that the Crown and Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui can begin anew in a spirit of mutual respect and partnership, guided by the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EWillie Jackson is champing at the bid to take the second half of this call, so I will keep it brief. There is a lot of k\u014Drero been had tonight about mana, and I want to be clear that this is not about restoring mana to Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. In confiscating their land, their water, they retained their mana. We are here simply to redress what was done financially, fiscally, when their land was taken\u2014that\u2019s why we\u2019re here\u2014because they maintained their mana and they fought as kaitiaki of the whenua and the wai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EThere have been comments about the amount of compensation being $6 million\u2014kei a koutou tonu te mana m\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui [who still hold the mana for that, Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui.] But I just want to put that into perspective. You don\u2019t have to look too far; you\u2019ve just got to google to find a private property for sale for that amount. So to compensate a whole iwi\u2014I just want to keep that in perspective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D r\u0101, hei whakakapi t\u0113nei te mihi atu ki a koutou Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, ehara m\u0101 m\u0101tou t\u014D koutou mana e whakahoki, kei a r\u0101tou tonu t\u014D koutou ake mana. Koutou ng\u0101\u00A0kaitiaki o te whenua, ng\u0101 kaitiaki o ng\u0101 wai, otir\u0101 kei a koutou hoki te mana o t\u0113nei Treaty settlement. M\u0101 koutou e whakatau me p\u0113hea koutou e haere ki mua. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou. E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E[However, to conclude my acknowledgments to you, Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui, it is not for us to return your mana, you already own your mana. You are the protectors of the land, the protectors of the water, you also hold the mana of this Treaty settlement. You can decide on what the future looks like. Salutations. To the Speaker, thank you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022351adb87ed8b4b72a30fc24114b7b218\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022351adb87ed8b4b72a30fc24114b7b218\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. As the member of Parliament for Coromandel, much of the Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui rohe is encompassed by the existing Coromandel electorate. So even though\u2014as others have already mentioned in this second reading debate\u2014it is a small iwi, it is mighty in stature and it is proud in history and heritage, and they have indeed waited far too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000944\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EMuch has been said in this mostly respectful second reading debate of the history and the scars that have been vested upon the land, the rohe, of Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui. As people cycle through today\u2019s Hauraki railway cycleway, which is one of the most ridden in the country, they traverse through the riverbanks of the Ohinemuri River and the beautiful native regenerating bush, but still the scars on the environmental landscape are still there\u2014the remnants of mining, the rusting hulk of mining, that was taking place a hundred years or so ago\u2014and, as the Green member Steve Abel so eloquently mentioned during his contribution about the mighty native trees that once stood so high, tall, and proudly in the rohe, most of them are gone. Fortunately, the bush is regenerating, but those scars are still prevalent, and as the former Mayor of the Hauraki District Council, the very venerable Basil Morrison, has said, these people have waited far too long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000945\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EIn April of 2011, I think it was, I had the privilege of being selected as the National Party candidate for Coromandel, and people were saying to me then, \u201CGet ready, Scott. Get ready, because these Treaty settlements are about to be done, and they\u2019ll be done in about six months\u2019 time. You\u2019ve got to get ready for it because there\u2019s going to be great change occurring, and it\u2019ll be a good thing for the region.\u201D Well, here we are almost\u2014in fact, even a little over 13 years\u2019 later, and we are still making slow progress to a small attempt to right the wrongs of the past. We can never right the wrongs of the past, because the measure we use today simply can\u2019t account for what was done by our predecessors, and we look back askance on that now, often, at how that happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000946\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m pleased that we\u2019re now at the second reading stage. We\u2019ve got the committee of the whole House to come, and then we have a final third reading on this piece of\u00A0legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000947\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EWhen we go through these Treaty settlement pieces of legislation, for me, and, I know, for other members in this Chamber, they provide an opportunity for reflection and for an insightful analysis of this nation\u2019s history but also, I hope, a small element of optimism for the future and what might come from them\u2014inadequate as they are, and as small and modest as they are, still hope and optimism for the future. I want to congratulate members who have made that future, forward-looking, aspirational hope for Ng\u0101ti Tara Tokanui and their people as part of the debate tonight, and I for one am going to be looking forward to the third reading, and to being here in this Chamber when that occurs, for the optimism and hope that that settlement will bring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000948\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge, in the last few minutes of my contribution tonight, those who have gone before and who have made their contribution and have not been able to be with us to see it concluded. I want to acknowledge the negotiators and the officials that have got this piece of legislation to where it is, and the Ministers who have been involved from successive Governments who have worked diligently and carefully to get to the point where we are today. Too slow, too little, not enough, but, hopefully, a glimmer of hope for the future, and if we didn\u2019t have that glimmer of hope for the future, we wouldn\u2019t be pursuing this process, which has taken too long, so long, and has been so fraught for so many. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000949\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003ESo I want to join with others in commending this second reading to the House. I look forward to the bill\u2019s further progress and, ultimately, to third reading and passing it in the not too distant future. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000950\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c44647ed2f13410dbbd15b1cb9b55e40\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6e72556a1624dbe8efef76601847c17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000951\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6e72556a1624dbe8efef76601847c17\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, the Hon Willie Jackson. You may need an apology from Miss Tangaere-Manuel about taking your time, because the time has come for me to leave. The debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000952\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240507faad0c1b77094fa6bead80879b399624000953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.59 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"