"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2db9d1098484220952623483b6fda8e\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 29 MAY 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002205df668dac6f4fccbd5f8f109434efe5\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 29 MAY 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a23be52dd96a464cbd28c8fd631a748d\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc71f9f1f2ed4a49a8fd60acdf524557\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7da5126be834dae849bad4aec8b8af3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7da5126be834dae849bad4aec8b8af3\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Labour\u2014Panmure-\u014Ct\u0101huhu):\u003C/span\u003E Tatou ifo ma tatalo. Le Atua Silisili ese e, matou te sulaina lau Afio mo fa\u2019amanuiaga ma tofi ua e fa\u2019au\u2019uina ai i matou. E lafoa\u2019i ni o matou lagona ma manatua ta\u2019ito\u2019atasi i le amana\u2019iaina o le Masiofo o Peretania. Matou te tatalo ina ia tonu ma fa\u2019amaoni fuafuaga ma fa\u2019ai\u2019uga uma i totonu o lenei Maota Fono. Ia talosia ta\u2019ita\u2019i o lenei M\u0101l\u014D ina ia maua le t\u014Df\u0101 mamao, le fa\u2019apalepale ma le agamal\u016B, au\u0101 le manuia ma le filem\u016B o Niu Sila. O le matou tatalo lea, e ala atu i le suafa pele o Iesu Keriso, Amene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022deb1560cb7204ae391f1831ca214796f\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fe40aed8767f4f4da8c93a0b3edc46f9\u0022\u003EContributions from Gallery\u2014Rules and Practice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00227f46ec2f038a430e90ea5aa7ae3b9ab7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f46ec2f038a430e90ea5aa7ae3b9ab7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I wish to address a situation that arose in the House last night on the occasion of the third reading of the Whakat\u014Dhea Claims Settlement Bill. The Assistant Speaker interrupted a kaum\u0101tua in the gallery who was speaking prior to the performance of a waiata to celebrate the third reading. According to the Standing Orders, the Assistant Speaker was correct in doing so\u2014the practice of the House since the 1990s has accommodated celebratory contributions such as karanga and waiata, but not contributions in the nature of a speech, such as a whaik\u014Drero. See Speaker\u2019s ruling 11/2. An important principle underlies that practice, which is that the House is the forum for elected members to speak and represent the diverse views of the people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThe incident affected a momentous occasion on the passing of the bill, which was unfortunate. It was also unfortunate that the Assistant Speaker was placed in that situation. The ruling I just mentioned notes that the Speaker presides on such occasions in light of the mood among members present. It also provides flexibility for the Speaker to agree beforehand to celebratory contributions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI ask that Ministers and members, when facilitating arrangements for people to attend an event in the House, such as a settlement bill, discuss with attendees what celebrations are intended, so that the tikanga of the House and of the parties to the settlement can be aligned. This was not fully disclosed on this occasion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EIn the future, greater clarity about what is agreed would allow the presiding officer to know what to expect, and to ensure things run smoothly. It also will enable those attending to understand what to do and when. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EUltimately, it is for the Speaker to maintain order and preside in a way that facilitates the House\u2019s business, guided by the Standing Orders. Members should support presiding officers in doing so. It is highly disorderly for members to demand apologies from presiding officers when they are applying the rules and practice of the House. I strongly advise, where members consider the House\u2019s rules and practice need to evolve, those members should address a proposal to that effect to the Standing Orders Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u002209d99b16a0d4495aa173523e913c97e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209d99b16a0d4495aa173523e913c97e6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. With regard to the ruling that you have just made, I have been both a whip, a Leader of the House, and an Opposition member of Parliament, and in the entire time I have been here very supportive of the Treaty settlement process and have worked\u2014including with you in your previous roles\u2014to ensure that those occasions were celebratory in nature, that the mana of the House was upheld, and that the mana of the people who came here for the third readings was upheld.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EOn many occasions, those who have sung waiata from the gallery have also engaged in karakia as part of that waiata\u2014it is not a new practice. What happened yesterday was not new; it has happened many, many times before. I have never seen\u2014I wasn\u2019t in the House when it happened, but I have never seen a Speaker interrupt that in the way that we saw yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhilst I accept the ruling that you have made, and I don\u2019t wish to challenge you or your ruling, I do want to make sure that in the future we don\u2019t undermine what is an occasion where the Parliament comes together in the spirit of unanimity to support the Treaty settlements process with something like that happening again. I don\u2019t think the mana of the House was upheld, but I don\u2019t think the mana of the people in the gallery were being upheld either. And I think the spirit of the third reading was somewhat undermined by what then unfolded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe9752f203a64265a8b0e8e0ffd97160\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe9752f203a64265a8b0e8e0ffd97160\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I thank the member for his contribution. It largely is in line with the ruling that I\u2019ve just made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1d0b8a82fd94de7af9804feb1041ff5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1d0b8a82fd94de7af9804feb1041ff5\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. I do thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I, too, don\u2019t disagree with the technicalities of the ruling that you have made and don\u2019t wish to challenge you on the ruling at all. I have seen successive Speakers\u2014I believe including yourself\u2014have the respect and the wisdom and the discretion of understanding that the stand that was made yesterday by a rangatira of Whakat\u014Dhea was a mana-uplifting stand for this House and was a respect for this House and all of its representatives in it on the passing of a very significant bill that, after 100-plus years of raupatu and Crown breaching of their lands, asking for some minutes or seconds of a whakamana mihi to this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EI would have expected that there is a basic minimum cultural understanding that the discretion allows and understands the vein and the wairua of what was being offered. While I also take on board you have offered a pathway for us to have our visitors and manuhiri far more prepared, there may be a longer conversation about how the rules of this House can also work. We\u2019ve seen spontaneous karanga happen in this House, haka and waiata, but in the spirit of what was being passed at that time, we have allowed that to go through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003EMy last point\u2014thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014is that we have seen the rules be fiddled in here on the floor of this House, including every day in question time, with some quite weird points of order. I know we want to uphold the mana of the House, but I ask us: are we always consistent in that? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002214228fd4012a4726bbcea3c122aa694d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214228fd4012a4726bbcea3c122aa694d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you. I think the member makes the point that there is a pathway. I make the point again that there was communications that were not full, and that the disclosure of all that was to be stated was not known to the presiding officer at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1b004238cde41f4b091c4e92aceb824\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1b004238cde41f4b091c4e92aceb824\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m not going to challenge you on the Standing Orders and I understand that your ruling mentions karanga, but I will challenge you on tikanga. Karanga is not only reserved for women\u2014and those who are representative of iwi who use karanga and waerea to be able to do that would attest to that and affirm that that is actually a common practice where karanga and waerea are used in the same vein. This is the challenge to you, it\u2019s about tikanga and whether the Assistant Speaker at the time would have ended up in that predicament if she had used the tools that are available to her to ensure that she was getting the cultural advice that the Speaker deserves to have. This is the issue we have. It\u2019s still a breach of tikanga. It may not be a breach of Standing Orders, but it\u2019s absolutely a breach of tikanga to ask somebody to sit down whilst doing a waerea or a karanga. That\u2019s the point I\u2019d like to make today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022735ef3cb370c441d9230db853a0cd0db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022735ef3cb370c441d9230db853a0cd0db\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you for that, and I\u2019m sure that you will want to discuss that with the Standing Orders Committee when the opportunity arises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022287619b12e9b4ae9bc58177e21f51275\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022287619b12e9b4ae9bc58177e21f51275\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Your ruling has been made. When the inevitable discussions take place, either this is a House of Representatives serving the primary purpose of us who are democratically elected, or circuitously it\u2019s going to change. It cannot change and should not change unless we abide by what you have to say. I want to share, sir, with you one thing. I personally sent a message to Whakat\u014Dhea, as a long-serving member of this House: \u201CBy all means, sing your waiata. If you depart from the waiata template, you will strike problems.\u201D I think the situation reflects both poor communication but also a creeping level of change in the House that has not been mandated within the rules of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7858baf787145778dbf70111a3cd1e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7858baf787145778dbf70111a3cd1e0\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b97b558607646c19a445e933be8fb32\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, hang on. We could go on for a while here. Remember that I have made a ruling and your contribution will need to be in the context of that. I call on the Hon Willie Jackson, with a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a48800277ff43f58de37f1e8e636970\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I heard your ruling. This is a very important kaupapa for our people. I was listening to Minister Jones. The tikanga of this House has changed considerably through the years. We never had babies being nursed in the Speaker\u2019s Chair before\u2014never.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bce79ba1b8246d5a3b987c33f1bf468\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We may not for some time in the future!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c584b3592b0e4b5c85bb74eb006fecf1\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: We never had. We now no longer wear ties in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fbcd3a687554c91a768e48fb0209059\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s something which you changed too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ec04cb5dd4048c5be585b9706dc467e\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: We now have waiata being sung from the gallery, Mr Speaker. My question to you\u2014and, again, I respect what you\u2019re saying\u2014is: what place does our tikanga play in this House? That\u2019s the question, Mr Speaker, and I apologise that we haven\u2019t been able to have a private audience with you to have a good k\u014Drero about this. But this is an overriding question for us, as M\u0101ori. When we have a rangatira insulted like that, as he was yesterday\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b9a5503df6747c7a5f36561dd72914a\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, Willie, you\u2019re not at Oxford now!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287bdda99bf11444399e6aaa7db71611f\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014we don\u2019t want to be listening to Shane Jones\u2019 bloody nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002289f04c99e2ee489b97cc7d9ae0dad9ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289f04c99e2ee489b97cc7d9ae0dad9ab\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That sort of comment kind of starts to disrupt the order of the House and also the intent of what\u2019s said here. I make it very clear in what I said today that there is a place for this discussion, and that\u2019s where this discussion should take place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022 data-id=\u00227396f91c38364f708006578972ed4de1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227396f91c38364f708006578972ed4de1\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d41f624c8ac148cda5ae2ba7e96b4a45\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A final point of order from the Hon Marama Davidson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5b2e29e304e4c3ba15f94ab12e16a55\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. It is a final point, it\u2019s both in response to Mr Jones, but you made a very valid point, Mr Speaker, about the order of the House. My final plea is that the disorder was actually created when the Assistant Speaker failed to use her discretion to allow for the mihi to go through. The disorder and the escalation actually began as a result of many other MPs recognising the harm of her call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4e3c9900a3b47d096b2dcee9ce7062a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4e3c9900a3b47d096b2dcee9ce7062a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, with respect, this is not a place to determine that. I\u2019ve made a ruling, and, as far as the House is concerned, that is the end of the matter. There is an open door for all of these discussions to take place at the Standing Orders Committee, which will be convened in the next short while.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c33d6b24efea4795bb8002cd974cccc8\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002200cb58e3611f4d1e936ea68f7ac1a298\u0022\u003ERodger Fox CNZM\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u0022526e80d803154ab9b33ec70c1f684dbe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022526e80d803154ab9b33ec70c1f684dbe\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Completely unrelated to the previous conversation, Mr Speaker, I seek leave to move a notice of motion without debate to express the House\u2019s sadness at the passing this week of jazz legend Rodger Fox.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3da922b32fe443792c1c3472d7e94b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3da922b32fe443792c1c3472d7e94b0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cab23e97ee1b43a8afded522e8570f84\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House acknowledge the death this week of jazz legend Rodger Fox CNZM and express our condolences to his family, friends, loved ones, and the many people that Rodger touched and mentored over the years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022171fd5075ddb48e69ed36c924811d883\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022171fd5075ddb48e69ed36c924811d883\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that. I don\u2019t think we take a vote on that; we just accept that as a motion before the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022734bb63e75604c0da7c468290da4ca36\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I think you have to put a motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002258e7115330884e9fa0ff8cf20836a748\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258e7115330884e9fa0ff8cf20836a748\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, do I? OK. Well, before I do, I\u2019m going to say that I think the man was an absolute icon. I followed him for a long time. His final concert was actually here in Parliament two weeks ago, and he brought along 24 young musicians who he was tutoring\u2014a fantastic legacy that he leaves, with so many that he has tutored over the years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cec3190a62e74e009d5239999e07da0a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Tikanga is changing again, Gerry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7ad5b0ba61c47eebf7b10ea2ab39287\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7ad5b0ba61c47eebf7b10ea2ab39287\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s right. It\u2019s me that\u2019s doing it, so it\u2019s OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b960dac1d2d459891b1ee7275e41437\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db52f24b7f2847eab542494658afd75a\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00223772c6a2da174114bcf691907f2c3322\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223772c6a2da174114bcf691907f2c3322\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00229934543659e5498aa5e29ce8f492192c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229934543659e5498aa5e29ce8f492192c\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Joseph Griffen requesting that the House urge the Government to stop construction of 20 K\u0101inga Ora homes in Port Street East, Feilding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00223c1971918ad64b008e5e9118cee9c110\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c1971918ad64b008e5e9118cee9c110\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00226345b6191d8a4e71be11b9b3b9053fb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226345b6191d8a4e71be11b9b3b9053fb8\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EGovernment response to the report of the Environment Committee on the report of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment Space invaders: A review of how New Zealand manages weeds that threaten native ecosystems\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Eministerial response to the referral of the petition of Alisha Riley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022471e10f427aa45f5999ca1abc6632d9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022471e10f427aa45f5999ca1abc6632d9a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022deef25cb7b444b5d8d7e8145d4440704\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022deef25cb7b444b5d8d7e8145d4440704\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReports of the Privileges Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Equestion of privilege arising from use of official television coverage of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Equestion of privilege concerning the defamation action Staples v Freeman, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Regulations Review Committee on the activities of the Regulations Review Committee in 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ebb220009db4871a57dbfde3bcd96ee\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The report of the Regulations Review Committee is set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b238b5bd17f6492f9132fedfbc4acfed\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b186b02ca01b4ebc8409154a4ff2cce8\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f57f1e1654b400188e17532f9cee74f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00222a61dcba939d4dd2a775f36fe7b52f4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a61dcba939d4dd2a775f36fe7b52f4a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u002264aee9b0eb0a4b66b4c71d13e7903292\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264aee9b0eb0a4b66b4c71d13e7903292\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and especially this Government\u2019s efforts to rebuild the economy after years of economic mismanagement. The huge increase in spending in recent years has pushed inflation higher, interest rates higher, it\u2019s kneecapped economic growth, and it\u2019s sent unemployment higher as well. It\u2019s obvious that we need a new approach, which is why we\u2019re taking action to make doing business in New Zealand easier, whether it\u2019s building, construction, farming, or financial services. So whether you\u2019re a farmer or a tradie, an entrepreneur or an innovator, my message is simple: we\u2019re a Government for you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225067b4ea28ba476388b969f9c3497046\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Have representatives of the four peak bodies representing building and construction firms written to his Government expressing concern that his Government\u2019s decision to cancel or defer projects is leading to a significant slow-down in work, a collapse in business confidence, and the risk of an exodus of skilled workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad2a6c0e49564196988ff6f56b62ed88\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m aware that they have, but we have a big pipeline coming of infrastructure, which we\u2019ve started to talk about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f88eae4d0d64581b5fb84271bf62955\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Did those same infrastructure providers express concern that his Government\u2019s rhetoric isn\u2019t matched by action, in particular, stating, \u201Cmany hundreds of businesses [are] caught in this gap between intention and getting work to the starting line\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3c58cdd13024bd398116bb1e885a186\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I can reassure them and what I have reassured them is to say that this is a Government that\u2019s going to get things built in this country. We don\u2019t believe in phantom projects. We don\u2019t believe in taking six years to do Auckland light rail\u2014to think about it, to talk about it, to do some Post-it note sessions, to have a lovely strategy. We don\u2019t believe in Let\u2019s Get Wellington Moving, that didn\u2019t get Wellington moving. We don\u2019t believe in Lake Onslow, which was a phantom Post-it note idea as well. We believe in getting things done in this country. We\u2019re going to build a 30-year pipeline of proper projects, not just ideas, and we\u2019re going to get things done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c6d42e1ebc242a29530ef495c0da0de\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Has he asked for an estimate of the economic impact on the building and construction sector of the Government\u2019s decision to stop, pause, or defer projects like school rebuilds and upgrades, hospital rebuilds and expansions, road works, water infrastructure improvements, and public transport investments; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c569729ad19465e9dab0a34346aba77\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I\u2019d just say to that member is that the school infrastructure and buildings programme was a very interesting one to be inheriting coming into Government, because it\u2019s lovely, again, to go off and say the words, but you actually have to follow up with a plan, and, ideally, you\u2019ve got to have the money there to do it, and that didn\u2019t happen for 350 school buildings, sadly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220f2e110959a4db69fa2679ec1bd464c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was whether the Prime Minister has asked for an analysis of the economic impact on the businesses affected by those decisions. I don\u2019t think the Prime Minister came even close to addressing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022775f30c9f7434e6eb0c2509fd432a0b3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the only problem is that the primary question asks if he stands by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions. And while that might be an action that you\u2019re questioning, as soon as he said that he didn\u2019t have any money, that was probably the end of the position. But I tell you what, I\u2019ll give you an extra question to be able to tease things out a bit further, if you can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022649bc69a5ad249f9b8bea1cec6e3f0f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does he plan to provide local authorities with the resources they need to bridge the infrastructure gap they currently have, or will he continue to leave them, as the industry told his Government, in \u201Cchallenging financial predicaments\u201D, with \u201Ca lack of funds or a need to await direction or decisions from central government before proceeding with planned works.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229281c169bfdd4f7c8feabe99992acd62\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I think the member is really\u2014it\u2019s an outrageous set of questions from this member, who has talked a big game and delivered so little, right? Let\u2019s take an example of local government funding and financing, if you want to do that. How much do you reckon the previous Government spent on three waters? $1.2 billion. Do you think there was any improvement in the three waters assets? Nope. What did we do? We partnered with local government, we found a solution for Auckland Watercare, and we\u2019ve got a great outcome. Now Auckland Watercare has certainty and a pipeline of future projects; Auckland Council has $800 million to spend on other infrastructure. We have plans. We don\u2019t just do bumper stickers and slogans; we get things done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1c47160c7664a84a03ecd2bb43712eb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Prime Minister as to whether or not his Government\u2019s plan is to build on the plan that was made yesterday by Mr Hipkins that the last Labour Government had built more houses since the 1960s, or was a totally baseless plan from them and as shallow as most of his statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4d1581a0b1947d581829dcef390216c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I can say in answer to that member\u2019s question is that K\u0101inga Ora debt went up $10 billion, the social housing wait-list went up four times, house prices went up, I think, over 50 percent, and average rents went up $180 a week. So either way you look at it, the previous Labour Government failed on housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237f638f921064241b1c579e703e201a3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: If his plan is so successful, why are 70 percent of building and construction firms expecting to see increased attrition over the next 12 months because of his Government\u2019s inability to provide certainty to the sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207d506bb287444ff88ee0aa57c679449\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I would just say\u2014I mean, it\u2019s quite outrageous. You had six years in Government, and you did nothing. You drove inflation up, you drove interest rates up, you put the economy into recession for four of the last five quarters, and you have the audacity to ask me economic questions. Give me a break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3a2b08d6ce8404a9b1762bd34934698\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Will he adopt the infrastructure sector\u2019s suggestion that the Government pursue an accelerated and immediate package of renewals work, particularly in the water and transport sector, to bridge the gap, retain essential skills and knowledge within the New Zealand border, and attract top-tier infrastructure construction talent to New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c74c2e87efd41028107af15f7864f8e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I\u2019d just say to you\u2014to the member\u2014that there are 62,000 potholes that we inherited from the previous administration. We\u2019re working very hard on renewals and maintenance. And, importantly, we\u2019re working on a 30-year pipeline of proper infrastructure projects, not Post-it note ideas. We\u2019re working on 10-year city and regional deals, which we\u2019ll be talking about shortly, and we want to form a national infrastructure agency that gets the right funding and financing tools so that, actually, local government and central government can work together instead of the Punch and Judy show that happened under your watch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d38b1f4a97f14b279a001e749233942a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is there more economic activity in the building and construction sector today than there was six months ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c4a785afe054d389bfd1be503cfa52e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, I\u2019ll just say to that member, thank you very much for overspending by 84 percent Government spending, thank you for driving up inflation to record highs, thank you for driving up interest rates to record highs, thank you for putting the economy into recession for four of the last five quarters, and thank you for raising unemployment\u2014no wonder construction firms are doing it tough, as are many, many New Zealanders. And wait for the Budget, tomorrow, delivered by an excellent finance Minister, to find out how you run an economy. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a37f24493314ab68758bf6fc1c6679b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s done. Calm those outbursts down quite considerably.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239942e4836bc4f0b91789d5bf6f0c26f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I\u2019d like you to review this question exchange, because every\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222275476f393745919cfa340d2825e283\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I tell you what: points of order are heard in silence, and everyone in the House will observe that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc0e6997b013414fac839995dcccb9a8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Mr Speaker, because every question that I asked the Prime Minister was about his Government and the actions taken by his Government, and every answer didn\u2019t address the question by talking about his Government; they talked about the previous Government. Now, while I accept that question time is a robust exchange, the Prime Minister should at least make some effort. This is a big issue. The building and construction sector have written to the Government with a list of concerns that I think are legitimate concerns that they deserve to have answers on, and I have raised some of those in the House today. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s unreasonable that the Prime Minister should address the actions of his Government, rather than the previous Government. He has been the Prime Minister for over six months now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b918b2c3f96744d4b6babdd287470a68\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will review it, but in the light of the primary question itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224adce2aa22904b7294263f8fcdd1a33c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022107a06fc2dc64543aa49d795947de1c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022107a06fc2dc64543aa49d795947de1c0\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022004454641d4e40a698db73da99b3e54c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022004454641d4e40a698db73da99b3e54c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in the context they were given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec9670f79d4241cb97fadd8deede0897\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement, \u201CI want all New Zealanders to be able to flourish in this country. I want everybody to be able to realise their potential\u201D, and, if so, does he think that it is fair that the average New Zealander pays double the effective tax rate of the wealthiest 311 families in this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f05ebb020c24c2db70f488a36ce3452\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I\u2019d say to that member is that\u2019s why we come to politics. We want every New Zealand child to have a great future; we want them to be able to realise their potential and realise their version of the Kiwi Dream, whatever that may be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4677d79656d4bdcb4c885844afeb0ea\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement of Christopher Luxon, \u201CHow much the wealthy own or don\u2019t own is irrelevant to actually middle New Zealand\u201D, and, if so, what level of inequality is he comfortable with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ac1594c45c4285a491e13d6732ee39\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s why we\u2019ve got to make sure we rebuild the economy: so that we can actually afford the public services so that we can deal with issues of inequality across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c15d8df93e9b4ceaab10fee8c5ceb991\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: How tough was the choice to make changes to benefit indexation that his official advice says will put 13,000 more New Zealand children in poverty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239ed0e81b7774ad6bdc98ce209268e79\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I disagree. What we\u2019ve done is made sure that beneficiaries\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d68f76789e634e14ac3daadc13b437d7\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: No, you can\u2019t disagree; the advice says it will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e49d4f5d29a448e92eba6792f912b87\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014are no worse\u2014well, we\u2019ve made sure that beneficiaries are no worse off by the effects of inflation and the cost of living. Their benefits will be adjusted by inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283bd8e167d0943ceb261a846f8b2c023\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: How tough was the choice to roll back smoke-free protections, which will result, ultimately, in more New Zealanders dying from smoking than otherwise would have, in order to generate half a billion dollars more in Government revenue?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f3293aefe874202b9bd335f15224b39\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We are determined to deliver on the Smokefree 2025 goals. What\u2019s been impressive is, under the legislation that we\u2019ve put back in place, daily smoking rates have fallen from 8.6 percent to 6.8 percent. We\u2019re well on our way to 5 percent\u2014that\u2019s our goal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d69248d66f0b4a2bbc5bb21b5c21e626\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: How tough was the choice to hand $2.9 billion in tax cuts to landlords?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207fea82fe2824ad188690d91bead733b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s important that we increase the supply of rental property and that renters don\u2019t end up being slugged with more costs. That\u2019s why we\u2019re actually delivering interest deductibility, revisiting the brightline test, and balancing the laws between landlords and tenants: because we care about renters. And I\u2019d hope that member would do the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220eaf7984c6c14b27a126a982080ceee1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Prime Minister as to whether he cares or not what his primary answer might be when someone comes to the House with a written primary question and five written supplementaries so that nothing that the Prime Minister might say would have any bearing on what she thought of what the first answer was?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dfc0750c1e74714b101cb5922b96764\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, no. It\u2019s not a place for the Prime Minister to reflect on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eae75f5b66754c40b3dcb189e0c286e6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but she\u2019s reading out her questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e96d79d523a94b47baf20b3e12120ca2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019ve got the point out, but the answer\u2019s not required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002277b68249a2d94f13a70b041cc16e87d8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u00226131ed23ed654489bf05183face0a0a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226131ed23ed654489bf05183face0a0a6\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What impending announcements is she planning on the Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f619bc951ef649f1acb2c0d59662b9c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f619bc951ef649f1acb2c0d59662b9c2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Tomorrow at 2 p.m., I will be announcing the Budget itself. Alongside my Budget speech, there are a number of documents that provide information on the Budget, ranging from high-level summaries to very detailed, line-by-line descriptions of changes to appropriations. These include the Estimates documents, the summary of initiatives, Treasury\u2019s Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, the Fiscal Strategy Report, the child poverty report, and the Budget At a Glance pamphlet. Compared to recent years, there will be less verbiage, fewer pretty pictures, and a lot more substance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6e7026412464a959e2dbb1efa460d1b\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: What new spending initiatives will be in the Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e45f9f8f0382458392a635642fed3787\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: That will be revealed tomorrow, but I should point out to members that this year\u2019s Budget will look quite different from those in the recent past. Recent Budgets\u2014[Interruption] They\u2019re all very excited today; they\u2019re looking forward to tomorrow as much as we are. Recent Budgets have tended to be long lists of spending increases. Tomorrow\u2019s Budget will include new targeted discretionary spending, but it will also contain lots of savings, lots of reprioritisation, and\u2014spoiler alert\u2014it will contain tax relief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a63e1204e28f4b77a1e1a874878a227f\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government pay for these measures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219e747748850488eba7e6219002aaf02\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: All the elements I just mentioned\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223966393e810341e28834d333833f5f8f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can we just calm it slightly. At least let a start be made before there\u2019s the usual objection to the content of the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228569cc491e3f48faae010c7f677766e6\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, this all bodes very well for tomorrow. All of the elements I just mentioned\u2014new discretionary spending, savings, reprioritisation, and tax relief\u2014are contained within the Budget operating allowance. Members may recall that the previous Government set an operating allowance of $3.5 billion for Budget 2024. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cf05b0ccf20439ebecb1902a24ea79a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s your operating allowance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022606126fffd6847b79416d7ed0486058d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: We will do a lot better than that, member Woods. I said in the Budget Policy Statement in March that the operating allowance for Budget 2024 will be less than $3.5 billion, and it will be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238fb6a5472db4e4080860e59e1e646db\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: What commentary has she seen on tomorrow\u2019s Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b74936100c2483ab84168c5bea1fb06\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen so much commentary on the Budget. But I did have my attention particularly drawn to one commentor\u2019s explanation of why tax relief will take demand out of the economy and reduce inflationary pressure. That commentator said, \u201COne thing [that] we know is that with tax cuts, and the slowing economy, there will be less money circulating\u201D. The commentator went on to say, \u201CAs it will be the better-off who will get more money from tax cuts,\u201D\u2014apparently\u2014\u201Cthe likelihood is much of that money will be spent on overseas trips, so won\u2019t be spent in our economy.\u201D This commentator went on to say, \u201CThere is always a contingency built in, called an operating allowance, which is for emergencies.\u201D And to justify New Zealand\u2019s ballooning public debt, this commentator said, \u201CSometimes it\u2019s necessary to borrow money; it took the United Kingdom sixty years to pay for World War Two, and imagine how long Ukraine will be paying off the cost of defending themselves against Russia.\u201D Members opposite should probably know, all of this came from the commentator, the writer of the \u014Ch\u0101riu newsletter, Greg O\u2019Connor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022549580f85a36463aaa1a5a6fab793427\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before we go any further, right at the start of this parliamentary year, I made it very clear that it was inappropriate for Government to use question time to attack either the Opposition or other MPs. That was a very serious transgression\u2014don\u2019t do it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249adf3422ac44333bbcdb8b9dc394f50\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Aww!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022922594ab56b24cb2a7dadc7af1412ccf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a severe telling off at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae705ca0e94a4b1d9c9c5d8aca618923\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: We beat you fair and square, Nicola.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3cef15ffb8f4e6cbb5b61f54df0d634\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And we\u2019re silent; we\u2019re all quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e88ae09719647b58b74ec57f7793ce7\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Who made that rule?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255c0b09b8ca446378123e5d968dc9fbf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227439aa116bc04a4c8a7d28a497eef062\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, you can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ad067bcd38844e5b7469444ae49f460\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a97fd63333f4d0482b747e97985cdcd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re Parliament\u2019s man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ffb6a01e6414594886ed1075a9ceba6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce4768c7937a4d5990a7c837b2611f18\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, not your own man\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0cbbe42d5fc42729171f933ffbd5414\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b936f992d8654b3ea39dc9338e2fcdd0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014you\u2019re Parliament\u2019s man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212ef60758b294de2b5eb5176cf70ac39\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that\u2019s right, and I\u2019m thinking about the whole of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc577d7f08c542aa8062e9e1c75d3f1d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Look, I think members may have misjudged that I was making it up; I seek leave to table the document.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d431ac6ffdb4a8d80873b8319fdd490\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. The Hon Marama Davidson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae1954702b1249828088f676c3ce37cd\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will the pending announcements she is planning on the Budget ensure the June 2024 child poverty target is met?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229afde03106fe481c8a6e706bb49e224b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: There will be a child poverty report that will report against those targets, and the member will be able to read it tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239336c78a4304335a0d3672e80782be2\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept advice from the Ministry of Social Development that \u201CIncreases in public housing supply need to be at a very large scale to result in significant movement of child poverty rates.\u201D, and, if so, can we expect to see a large increase in the K\u0101inga Ora build programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223de137b98c1449fc87a6d0148365ee23\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019d make two comments. The first is, I think it would be a bit rich for the member to expect that in six months of Government, we would then take responsibility for six years of actions which have contributed to the levels of child poverty today. The second comment I would make is this: when it comes to housing, she was a member of a Government that oversaw a quadrupling in the State house waiting list, she was the Minister of homelessness while thousands of children went to bed each night in a motel room, and it all got worse on their watch. So this side of the House will not be lectured by that member and her colleagues about how to deliver housing for children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5ce147e3bad43529a7c3d614674805f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u002203da0f0a9df34354bb9d4d28f711aa06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203da0f0a9df34354bb9d4d28f711aa06\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Fa\u2019afetai tele lava, Mr Speaker. Will her Budget be a success if families do not get the $250 per fortnight as outlined in the fiscal plan and if it causes inflation to stay higher for longer? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f18ba39d206a450f973067c469a5a451\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f18ba39d206a450f973067c469a5a451\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E From my experience, Ministers of Finance always describe their Budgets as a success, and while there are some traditions I intend not to follow tomorrow, this tradition of delivering a Budget that is, and is described as, successful is a tradition I intend to stick to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a870b9117f654d3db86cd62e08e51db7\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Will the official Government tax calculator produce the same figures for the same individual circumstances as the tax calculator provided by their fiscal plan? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1464573b46343fda0eb2bb063c4b07e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, naturally, the member will have to wait to see until tomorrow, but I have been advised of this: the tax calculator will deliver far, far bigger numbers of relief than would have been delivered by that group of people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eba5c1a02276457b869db0520d4eda83\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Will low-income earners get more than what was promised in their fiscal plan, like landlords have through their $2.9 billion tax break? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d89c9fe7155743f685d566662912a436\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Low-income workers will be far, far better off with this Government\u2019s economic management than they were under six years of Labour\u2019s big-spending, big-inflation ways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022709b999dde2f4edcb855f8d17ed0e89a\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she understand the economic principle that even if fiscally neutral, a timing mismatch between savings and spending will cause inflation? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a43c7b724da14f72ae0f5c2babfef98e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I do understand economic principles, and one of those economic principles is that when inflation is roaring at a massive high\u2014as it was in 2022, at 7.3 percent\u2014that would not be the time to pump in the biggest amount of new operating spending in Budget history, as that party chose to do in Government. For that member to stand there and pretend that she has now found fiscal rectitude when she is sitting alongside colleagues\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ca122c5ad1c4b478bc053ac33c2b3c3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough. [Interruption] The Hon Barbara Edmonds\u2014and everyone else will listen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022968d37833da640d88c7acacec4686ce6\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, it doesn\u2019t faze me. Is she confident that her Budget will not exacerbate inflation or unemployment? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f03d051f9ba74e2ebb127a93f3400522\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022354f739daaec4438b71ec8c37a8c41d7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022 data-id=\u002263c31426c38d4b2a976e3d807a5e4748\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263c31426c38d4b2a976e3d807a5e4748\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What recent announcements has she made on improving education outcomes for New Zealand children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022fae83065d9564224882826290f627f53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fae83065d9564224882826290f627f53\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I recently announced $67\u00A0million of investment from Budget 2024 for structured literacy, which will transform the way New Zealand children learn to read\u2014improving student achievement, closing the equity gap, and setting up Kiwi kids for success. This money will also ensure that schools and teachers have the resources and support they need to teach Kiwi kids to read, whether it be in English or in te reo M\u0101ori. Reading is fundamental to help children to succeed in education and in life. If we improve our education outcomes, then we build a brighter future for our kids, for our society as a whole, and a stronger economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a52a16dba584b21aa78f1e546e8d1c8\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: What will her recent announcements mean for students?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224974832cd7d645dfbdb27567d8ac1cb5\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: We are unashamedly investing in the front line of education to improve outcomes for students. Along with that $67 million to improve student achievement, we also have invested $53 million to increase the supply of our teachers. The teachers are our greatest asset in education, and we need to invest in recruitment, training, and retraining. We have introduced an hour a day of reading, writing, and maths; we are implementing a knowledge-rich curriculum; we\u2019ve removed the distraction of cell phones for the whole of school day; we\u2019ve set an ambitious target around attendance and achievement. Every single one of these announcements is focused on raising achievement and closing the equity gap so that our tamariki can live the lives that they want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cd6bfb715bc41a3b1356c08cac97773\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: What reports has she seen that are supporting her work programme announcements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247e77ba036f34d5c951b9194d24f0fc3\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Last week, the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research published a report which showed that graduate primary school teachers have been let down by the system and lack basic qualifications in science and mathematics. It found a quarter of teachers failed to meet the required benchmark to pass NCEA level 1 maths and more than half failed to pass level\u00A01 science\u2014under the previous Government\u2019s watch. Many chose not to pursue maths and science beyond level 1, but those who do are more likely to fail than pass. The correlation between these statistics and outcomes for our students are deeply concerning, because only 42 percent of year 8 students are at curriculum for maths, and only 20 percent are at curriculum for science. There is a moral imperative to break this cycle. This is why I have announced that we are strengthening the curriculum, investing in teacher professional development, and taking the first steps to improve teacher training.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca277880d0c442f18b5d706380b57f9c\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: How will savings be reinvested in education?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d76e2aaf8384300bfc32b70e85aa147\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Around $429 million in savings will be realised in education over the next four years, and every single dollar of these savings will be reinvested into the front line. Some of these reinvestments have already been announced, such as the increased funding for period products so students don\u2019t miss out at school. We\u2019ve also ensured that school lunches will continue while delivering a more efficient programme and extending it to 10,000 Kiwi kids in early childhood. The savings we have made will be dwarfed by the significant investments that we will deliver in Budget 2024 tomorrow. We are a Government that is focused on delivering for Kiwi kids, and I look forward to the announcements from the Minister of Finance tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a4a9cbb65b24c67ad946a235924e2fc\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002219de0fef4acb4660a64d379bd7d3d178\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219de0fef4acb4660a64d379bd7d3d178\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: On what date, if any, did he seek Cabinet committee approval for the structure and makeup of the review into K\u0101inga Ora?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00227f10524fc91743a39c69ce61fca8502c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f10524fc91743a39c69ce61fca8502c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E On Wednesday, 13 December 2023, the Cabinet 100-Day Plan Committee considered the paper establishing the K\u0101inga\u00A0Ora (KO) review. The committee agreed to establish an independent review of K\u0101inga Ora, under section 132 of the Crown Entities Act 2004, conducted by three independent members appointed by the responsible Ministers\u2014the Minister of Finance and me, the Minister of Housing. The committee also noted the proposed terms of reference of that review and authorised responsible Ministers to consult with K\u0101inga Ora on them. This decision was confirmed by Cabinet on Monday, 18 December 2023 and announced on the same day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc66ab35b22e4f2fab220198094f5d1e\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: When he sought Cabinet committee approval to have the power to appoint the reviewers of K\u0101inga Ora, did he inform the committee that he had already agreed to appoint Sir Bill English on 29 November 2023?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cbd54d4a9204303a196184f005c1522\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it was discussed that Sir Bill English would be involved in the review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022936d95700ccf46deb197c61a94ff962b\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I seek leave to table a response to an Official Information Act request received on 23 May 2023, which is not publicly available, containing text messages exchanged between the housing Minister and Sir Bill English between 29 November 2023 and 22\u00A0April 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7924345c2c34b90ba759e4e15f1ff88\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa244342bf6143329249b93dc32bbdfc\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Why, then, was this information not included in the Cabinet paper, knowing it would eventually be proactively released, given that the text message exchange where he agreed to appoint Sir Bill English would not be proactively released?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229d54652d3b04cc2bda484a72faca227\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is dreaming up a conspiracy here that doesn\u2019t exist. It is a matter of public record. I released this Official Information Act request with texts between myself and Sir Bill because, well, there\u2019s no conspiracy here. As I\u2019ve said publicly, Ministers engage in discussions around people who might do reviews or expert advisory groups, with people who might do those, all the time. It\u2019s not like Cabinet makes a decision to appoint people to do reviews and then they find out that they\u2019ve been appointed after the appointment happens, without any discussion around it. That\u2019s not how it works. There is a range of discussions and involvement and engagement around that. I talked to Sir Bill English about being involved in the K\u0101inga Ora review. Ministers then took a paper to Cabinet seeking authority to conduct a review\u2014again, no surprise there, because the National Party campaigned on that in the 2023 election. The Cabinet committee authorised that. It was confirmed by Cabinet, and then, pursuant to the Crown Entities Act, Ministers then appointed the reviewers. That\u2019s literally all there is to it. The member is dreaming up a conspiracy that doesn\u2019t exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d95f36b6a6dd4716ab63afa323c36685\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, instead of accusing members of dreaming up conspiracies, it would be best for the order of the House if Ministers actually addressed the question. The question itself was actually pretty straightforward\u2014a simple question as to why a piece of information that the Minister has said to the House that they discussed was not included in the Cabinet paper that was proposing the thing they were discussing. That\u2019s straightforward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b23f868d305f46d6b205e638e08b8273\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f021d938fca4ddea483ef78d0d77ad1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Except that he did answer that discussions had been taking place among Ministers. You want to make a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211c076cb04ab4c8d9847724101389547\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m happy to answer the question. Not every Cabinet paper includes every piece of information. The relevant decision that the Cabinet committee sought\u2014subsequently confirmed by Cabinet\u2014was for responsible Ministers to make appointments. That authority was granted. Responsible Ministers then went on to make the appointments, and that is literally all there is to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260a2a44ca3e8400885ee6d2483fd03b5\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Did he inform Cabinet that he had advised Sir Bill English the review should have \u201Cno involvement from KO\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e5e6b088eb3402cbf9ef466d687e1c6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t talk about what happens in Cabinet, but in relation to that specific issue that the member raises, my comment to Sir Bill was about the fact that the review was intended to be independent of K\u0101inga Ora\u2014as in it wouldn\u2019t be K\u0101inga Ora reviewing itself; it would be a genuinely independent review done by independent reviewers. Clearly, I expected the review to engage with K\u0101inga Ora, which they did, as I\u2019ve said on multiple occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237959950250a40fd8b6daf2235bb52c1\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019ve got a bit of an issue here, where, yesterday, I asked the Minister quite clearly if at any point he advised Sir Bill English that there\u2019d be no involvement of K\u0101inga Ora. The Minister answered no. Now, in response to the question I\u2019ve just asked, he\u2019s gone on to explain, yes, he did say that but this is what he meant. If a Minister has answered a question incorrectly, they are required to correct that at the first possible opportunity, and that would have been before question time, not as part of an answer to a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267c581fd5c154bf7a3bec550c7f8f6d2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, look, there are around about 50-odd questions a day. I can\u2019t remember the answers to all of them, but I will make some effort to find out what the difference between the two positions is. But can I also say that if the member feels there is an issue, then he has another course of action that he can take in that regard?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c129f1525e614cfeb3d722fa1afdcbab\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he inform Cabinet that the board of K\u0101inga Ora was \u201Cbroadly comfortable with the review recommendations\u201D when the board sent the review panel a 14-page letter outlining the factual inaccuracies they identified in the report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229024d80517a2411297ec51bb34daa887\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Because that was based on the advice that I received from officials. It is perhaps unsurprising that a board that has been the subject of a damning independent review does not agree with those findings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9324fd56cbb4935b40a8590ac255355\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Did he consider whether there was any precedent for the Government appointing former senior Ministers to important public sector roles?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222caabffdbd9b4ca18633cd4ddb37a071\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I think we\u2019ll just let that one go through to the keeper. Thanks very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7ffe2b5bd6a4ca6b89e94b9c4fa0f7b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No, Mr Speaker, that\u2019s an important question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247fb5b21949f4970ba0310434e85ef39\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Well, it might well be for you to answer, but it\u2019s not an important question for the House, because it doesn\u2019t deal with the actions of the current Government. So have you got another supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dfbdd7ca1d64073869529e1ec9e7fba\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, the line of questioning yesterday and today and other public commentary, including by the Leader of the Opposition, is around the appointment of a former Prime Minister to an independent review into a Government agency. Clearly it is relevant, therefore, to consider past actions of other Governments as a precedent basis regarding senior Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022805f07b523334d59a86e5318242e9c16\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: No, he\u2019s got no responsibility for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d832ab6a410d4fd09fc8ece50fc8d852\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is a matter of responsibility, because I follow past precedent and practice by past Governments. It\u2019s well within order, Mr Speaker, to be asked about those precedents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef59c09d80bf483089a0dcb5a2308581\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it would be asking you for an opinion, and that would be kind of interesting but not within the ambit of your ministerial responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f91fbf01b22042df937eec7348856231\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that the former chair of K\u0101inga Ora was a former Labour Party senior Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e086570950cb406889e6e2e7a569551f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed, I can. Vui Mark Gosche was a Cabinet Minister under the Helen Clark Government, and I also have a range of other senior Ministers who\u2019ve been appointed to public roles: Steve Maharey; Michael Cullen; Ruth Dyson; I\u2019m not sure we\u2019d call Louisa Wall particularly senior, but she was appointed the Pacific gender equality ambassador by Nanaia Mahuta; Annette King; Trevor Mallard; Phil Goff. The list goes on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da3f252cdfbf4ddfb8e899d53e44d079\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good. I think everyone got the message there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224b096226c7e44fda8901307a11452250\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d24c3f7140bb4c8a9f31c77d4b2f4bd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d24c3f7140bb4c8a9f31c77d4b2f4bd9\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What recent statistics has he seen on victims of crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1fff7ff778640cd8fb1414206b874af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1fff7ff778640cd8fb1414206b874af\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Based on the latest Police data, over the past five years, violent crime has increased by 33 percent, ram raids by 290\u00A0percent, robberies by 62 percent, and the number of victims of retail crime has increased 110\u00A0percent. New Zealanders deserve better. That\u2019s why the Government is committed to restoring real consequences for crime. We\u2019ve replaced the previous Government\u2019s goal to reduce the prison population by 30 percent, irrespective of what the level of crime is in the community, with clear and measurable targets to reduce\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d2cc2a4862f4582bf8e94608e557558\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The statement that the Minister has just made in his answer is factually incorrect. He has no ministerial responsibility for the previous Government\u2019s targets. But if he is going to refer to them, then he needs to refer to them accurately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294dc52dfc4864884982023a415e90326\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker, it was very clear that it was a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228abd4fc8b36e494cbd740a41f0c98323\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait\u2014just calm. The Hon Paul Goldsmith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c27548769364892a8bfe0aea156230c\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I reject his assertion and his point of order. It was clearly stated as a goal of the previous Government to reduce\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242d25efc70524f69ac54d165e6affbb0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s good. Well, I\u2019m not adjudicating an argument between the two of you. If there\u2019s factually incorrect material being presented to the House, there will be a remedy for those to take it up. So we\u2019ll take\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281865239ce73479e9302b9394b23b09d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Can I finish my answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022724765fb361649bdbf360354403c019a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe you should start again and make it brief, because I was sort of losing it a bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b383d95c344141ce8c4c95227eab8433\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019d hate for the\u2014the only point I wanted to add is it\u2019s also why we\u2019re progressing legislation to give the police additional tools to tackle gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1b6914e78f64cdd92b532b3891b1bc4\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: What other statistics on victims of crime has he seen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222d5ced07b8a4fbe80fe37cbf14d9d2f\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: On Monday, the Ministry of Justice released their latest five-year analysis of the New Zealand Crime and Victims Survey. This analysis identified victims of crime who are deemed to be highly victimised, experiencing four or more cases of crime in the past 12 months. It identified that of the 4 percent of New Zealanders who are highly victimised, M\u0101ori are disproportionately represented, comprising 30 percent of that group. This is twice the rate of the rest of the population. That\u2019s why M\u0101ori are more likely to benefit from the measures of our Government to reduce crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef158a1d244c4c71b558f72f51cded7d\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: What are the key insights from that five-year analysis of the New Zealand Crime and Victims Survey?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022012b2f3007e443eda8dd7ecc7078a911\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The analysis shows that a small group of New Zealanders are experiencing the most crime: 137,000 people are considered to be highly victimised every year. You\u2019re even more likely to be highly victimised if somebody is young, a woman, and M\u0101ori. That is why we\u2019re focusing on reducing the number of victims of crime to improve the safety of all New Zealanders. The restoration of the three-strikes regime will keep our worst repeat offenders off the streets for longer. Our decision to offer rehabilitation services to many prisoners on remand will help reduce reoffending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb2bb6e2ea444cc39209e05e6f6305cc\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: And what other actions is the Government taking to reduce the number of victims of crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242c2bc0f38f942cb8e5dd4e371d8fdf7\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, first, we\u2019re restoring real consequences for crime. We\u2019ve already introduced legislation to give police extra tools to deal with gangs, we\u2019ve taken the first steps to ensure that prisoners on remand can get rehabilitation programmes, and we\u2019re progressing well with strengthening the sentencing regime in New Zealand. Serious repeat youth offenders will face tougher consequences through the young serious offender category and military academies. Ministers Mitchell, McKee, Chhour, and others are working hard in their respective portfolios, and there is plenty more yet to\u00A0come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258cbafcd37d04d34b40a6cc7d503b0b4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u0022635aef6e2185439dbdb623bdbf5021d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022635aef6e2185439dbdb623bdbf5021d5\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: Does he stand by his statement that the Treaty \u201Cis fundamental to our nation\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u00228c92399224f34009a54e7b10e0667368\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c92399224f34009a54e7b10e0667368\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava. Yes, the Treaty is fundamental to our nation. It is embedded in our constitutional fabric, past, present, and future. Before I resume my seat, my acknowledgment to our Matua Willie Jackson for returning from the Oxford debate successfully. I understand your colleagues have been very happy in your absence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223415074b8a27479ea52a99a48be57601\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much for that! Kia ora. How can the Minister stand by his statement; sorry, sorry\u2014sorry, Mr Speaker. He rattled me a little bit with that compliment\u2014threw me a little bit. I\u2019ll just come to that question again. What priority, if any, will the Minister\u2019s statement reflect the aspirations of M\u0101ori in Budget 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229e2a4958f0f4c598fd35ce37bf39d22\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Talofa lava. We are prioritising the 35,000 extra M\u0101ori who ended up on a benefit over the last six years, and the 60 percent of M\u0101ori tamariki who didn\u2019t make it to school as a result of the Labour education approach, and also the 1,700\u00A0M\u0101ori households who are currently living in emergency housing up and down the country in places like Fenton Steet, Rotorua, and Ulster Steet, Hamilton West, and making sure that we address the needs of M\u0101ori and all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295497b98036542029390736268da58e5\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: How can he stand by his statement when all that M\u0101ori see are cuts to M\u0101ori initiatives and the continued undermining of the Treaty of Waitangi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289c2a18051af40008a45d7fb719044d0\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Talofa lava. One more sleep to go, heigh-ho-hippy-ho, and we hope to see tax relief for many M\u0101ori and all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e80e5928a08426eb903558ba5d18be2\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: What best reflects the Government\u2019s position in relation to the Treaty and M\u0101ori: Winston Peters, who has compared M\u0101ori policy akin to Nazi Germany; David Seymour, who believes the Treaty partnership is a misinterpretation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f26841d0944c4ea90412c3c4b1cb15\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. If you\u2019re going to make statements in the question, then you have to ensure you can validate them with proof. No such comment was ever made in the way Mr Jackson just outlined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221414\u0022 data-id=\u0022509832146e71413f8caa51a039a102ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022509832146e71413f8caa51a039a102ea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I made strong recommendations to the Business Committee on Tuesday that questions in the House that raise\u2014basically that contain\u2014allegations against others should be avoided for the order in the House. Do you want to speak to the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221421df2441dc468baa2b54c7c417c3d6\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019ll speak to the point of order, Mr Speaker. So, Mr Peters\u2014I was talking about a reference he made to Nazi Germany at his own conference. I just want to apologise to the Minister, I want to clarify to the House that I don\u2019t want to misrepresent him, but it was both Nazi Germany and the Ku Klux Klan that the Minister compared the policy with\u2014this is from his own conference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221414\u0022 data-id=\u00226f86037e86214e55914b83f7a4bf852c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f86037e86214e55914b83f7a4bf852c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s good; well, you can table it if you want to. I\u2019m sure it\u2019s widely read and expected. The other point I\u2019d make is that Minister Potaka has no responsibility for anything that was said by the leader of the New Zealand First Party. So think about that. The Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5a7cec298b34462a2b369bc80a55441\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Not only did Willie Jackson say something that wasn\u2019t true in his first question, he\u2019s now compounded it when he knows full well that that speech says it is Labour Party policy that resembles the Ku Klux Klan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3062ee744164f11929af86de6697ed8\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, I can only\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296e3b3b2c28e4381905a04bcbf1c8ef6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What are you doing here? Are you speaking to that, or are you going to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c965a161f274160a8211afaac8b977d\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m speaking to that, Mr Speaker, because I stand by\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f4fa5151b7147e5823668477b6019fa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on, there\u2019s no way I\u2019m going to give a ruling here that says that you can go ahead with those sorts of accusations. Think about your words. You\u2019re obviously very good at this debating stuff, so think about the way you put your question together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002214402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022083fd6df35754e34adcf8faf0a9de31d\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, I wanted to\u2014with respect\u2014get a position from the Minister in terms of what basically sums up the Government\u2019s M\u0101ori and Treaty policy, and that\u2019s why I\u2019m giving the examples of David Seymour, the Hon Winston Peters, and the last person I want to give as an example was the Prime Minister, whose view on M\u0101ori policy and Treaty policy is that M\u0101ori can only protest on the weekend, when it is convenient to him. So I would like to know from the Minister: what basically sums up the Government\u2019s M\u0101ori and Treaty policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c75895c9d55c4cbf94a8bc7763f89388\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the problem is I\u2019m sure he can\u2019t answer that in a concise fashion that question time would allow, but I will ask him to perhaps make a brief statement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c146c4d9b91846bd89c8251da47be009\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Talofa lava. I\u2019m very proud to be part of a party that started the historic Treaty settlements process over 30 years ago. I stand with my esteemed colleague the Hon Paul Goldsmith, who has continued in the vein of Christopher Finlayson and Doug Graham. E mihi ana ki a t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7c416d928bb4dcaaf58313dd0baf2c5\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, point of order. The question\u2019s very clear. I can\u2019t help it, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m asking for the Government policy, and the Government and his view in terms of Winston Peters, David Seymour, and the Prime Minister, and he\u2019s waffling on about Doug Graham.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa4d6e8f72a24206aaee8de647dfd843\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I guess he\u2019s just throwing out a bunch of names like you have. So I just think the question, with all due respect, is not that clear. I\u2019ll give the member one more shot at the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eeb178aeb7ff43dcb1e61c23cd8f6d7f\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Someone send aid to Oxford!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e632dcc1d31c417f9e93afe8b91bd1c6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Let him go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d7cb5e85135413fb74c42bd1edb65ce\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: In terms of the Minister, I\u2019ll ask the next question: is the Minister planning to attend the Hui Taumata this Friday in Hastings, and, if so, what will he be saying to all those concerned about his Government\u2019s M\u0101ori policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d620b8bf0404ac0b04f5b8af8b55eb2\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. As we all know, tomorrow is the Budget, and there are various responsibilities that go with being a Minister of this Government attending to Budget matters. I look forward to hearing and potentially seeing the outcomes of the hui that will be convened at \u014Cmahu, the home of various hap\u016B of mine\u2014Ng\u0101ti Mahuika, Ng\u0101ti Honom\u014Dkai, and Ng\u0101ti Pakau. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bb2517b2af946fcb13dfc5ff82d3aa2\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Do M\u0101ori stand to gain from a Budget that delivers responsible economic management?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207890f926dd44cfeab544df434d90b7b\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I look forward to hearing the Budget tomorrow. I wanted to acknowledge our manu p\u016Btea, Minister Nicola Willis, for her absolutely professional and diligent approach to ensuring that M\u0101ori and all New Zealanders benefit from this Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221414\u0022 data-id=\u002292e95872e5ea44549069a6e236344085\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292e95872e5ea44549069a6e236344085\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question\u2014[Interruption] We\u2019ll just wait for a bit of quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b7ab1a88680471b88a307e55707a8b2\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that Te Tiriti is fundamental to our nation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7025fcdf99c4b6984b87883abd97cc8\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. Yes, and I believe that Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014the Treaty of Waitangi\u2014is the basis for the kotahitanga that I have subscribed to for the course of my life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec76c5aefc0a4f4586ef29711b0ffa2c\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe, and will he confidently put on record, that all the rangatira on behalf of their respective hap\u016B, who signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the M\u0101ori text ceded sovereignty to the British Crown, or did M\u0101ori maintain rangatiratanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d7e82c0141140f4ac47982c75d9a627\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. As we know, the Treaty of Waitangi\u2014Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014is a sacred covenant, a kawenata tapu, that was signed between various rangatira, iwi, and hap\u016B, and representatives of the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228855ca484b414fbfa91f246584af1e68\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Now, that question was really clear. I was asking whether he believed that all rangatira, on behalf of their respective hap\u016B, who signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi, ceded sovereignty to the British Crown or maintained rangatiratanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222088c2b85dd045c69aa47a766ef96a5e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll give him a chance to say something again, but I would point out that he made it clear what he believes, which was the first part of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff70062657934e7d8b57da605488510e\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. It is absolutely clear that Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014the Treaty of Waitangi\u2014provided that the Crown would actively protect the rangatiratanga of our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022229f383f13344a1daaf70704ea9ad720\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I\u2019m perplexed by that answer, Mr Speaker, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219428f4d9663464ba1e997345a01c328\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ad46df08ee94198a1520a76b3891472\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it\u2019s not an answer. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e46b848792945b080561f55f9692afc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Wait a minute. Hold on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217f60830ef30485b8d6f6fefa1613efe\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not an answer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e53bb1cc8a284dab9f08e8c0094b387e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022432a6c5a88a84852a8652b7c8f0d80d9\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s made up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e84ca4b00234ebab8bff250e7f40467\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Start again. Points of order are heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e47344f1cdf34106970dd455ebfe9ea4\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m perplexed by that answer because it\u2019s actually not an answer. He\u2019s made up text that doesn\u2019t even exist in Te Tiriti o Waitangi or even its principles or articles. So I wanted to just clarify that for the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022125760cff45940129b0242d71baea2eb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you for doing that in your opinion. But he did answer the question, with the opening words, \u201CI believe\u201D, and that is what the intention of your question was and the words for your question were right at the start. And shake your head, but, in the end, words matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220f7d126e-c18d-4466-9ebe-d424ae5c4bf6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221dc48cfb2f64b769f1673e4148cbd4e\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe that rangatiratanga can be achieved whilst being subjugated and simulated in this Westminster system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc0acf3abbed4b6ba2524894c66c4f22\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. We live in an ever-evolving country, Aotearoa New Zealand. I believe that Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014the Treaty of Waitangi\u2014is a sacred covenant that\u2019s been signed by representatives of iwi and hap\u016B and the Crown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d0d835f1f624e2eb64659ea33705b83\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that this debate was settled by Sir Apirana Ngata in a seminal document reflecting his understanding a lot closer to the signatories of the Treaty of Waitangi, and the Treaty of Waitangi is an indivisible, bilingual, bicultural document incapable of being dismembered to suit the fads of the minor party of Parliament? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245e40e65623c4e03a0563a73dc99715a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough. [Interruption] That is absolutely enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee52edeeb1c84609a86b60342de7ff9b\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. As you\u2019re aware, I am a student of the same college that T\u0101 Apirana Ngata attended, Te Aute College, and I subscribe to the learnings and the teachings of T\u0101 Apirana through great subject matter writings, such as The Treaty of Waitangi and The Price of Citizenship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e127867979a245f8bb0a75cf3a4d5cff\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u00221412cc4fa1dd4d6a8aecaca1286073a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221412cc4fa1dd4d6a8aecaca1286073a7\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Resources: What announcements has he made on doubling the value of New Zealand\u2019s mineral exports by 2035?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebafb21162954736983973449291ea90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebafb21162954736983973449291ea90\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Resources):\u003C/span\u003E As the Minister for Resources\u2014not\u00A0of resources\u2014I visited Blackball last week, the home of the Labour Party, to launch the Government\u2019s growth strategy for the minerals sector, where I was not only greeted by a small but motley bunch of protesters but overwhelmed by the size of the crowd in the Blackball Hall, where there was standing room only. I shared that our strategy will actually double the mineral exports value and, with the right direction and settings, jobs will grow regional resilience and we\u2019ll no longer rely on the Congo for our minerals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283d1c8d5f5404799ac65f10a9e3cd7dc\u0022\u003ETanya Unkovich\u003C/span\u003E: What will the Government\u2019s minerals strategy achieve?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245cbe993bf0f42d0867665d5fac20cdd\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, we won\u2019t continue the falsehood of importing minerals from countries that have abysmal environmental standards, abysmal child work safety practices\u2014but, no, sir, this vision, which I\u2019ve articulated on behalf of the Government, will boost not only regional productivity, resilience, and although it may be modest in size, in order to save the climate, we must mine our way to the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac3c42b865254bcd890cda02720e2329\u0022\u003ETanya Unkovich\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the minerals sector critically important for responding to climate change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e4a57ed061b4b4393c3a37aabac6a5a\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: This strategy focused on climate minerals, otherwise known as green minerals, and as the International Energy Agency has articulated, the world, in order to reach net zero by 2050, will need six times more minerals for low-emissions technology. And I can assure you we will not hurt any endangered birds, in particular those called \u201CDarleen\u201D!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229652cb6dd9c34d5e96f3e76818b0e383\u0022\u003ETanya Unkovich\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has he\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ddcec3436584c94aa81987e49d7238b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please just wait till I call you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022573a831cc8e24e20a6d3368f19597e37\u0022\u003ETanya Unkovich\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has he\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e20f1e6a8ad94e939bf0d193b41da0e8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, wait till I call you. OK, now you\u2019re up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa30968cd7454048b74058896a5dc353\u0022\u003ETanya Unkovich\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has he received on the launch of the minerals strategy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dee48662905e4183bb7a54c8a43bfe87\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Overwhelmingly positive. Indeed, that organ of the fourth estate, otherwise known as ZB radio, has raised the importance of the trade-off presented in this document: that in order to have more solar panels, to have the other accoutrements necessary for the climate change journey, we need minerals; we need mining. And perhaps it could not be better said than by the 80-year-old former miner Les Neilson: \u201CI started my life in Blackball 80 years ago. To be at the meeting to hear Shane Jones, Parliament\u2019s greatest orator, I don\u2019t believe I\u2019ll live to hear another speech like that again.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dec8be1a1934e8585b76fe0442cb939\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It would be nice to think that this House might not hear another speech like that again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d2012ceeb38400fa1419cda5ce1ce2b\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he commit to no new coal mines on public conservation land; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282066730a9ec42d08c7d64532a4dd00b\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, that depends on how that member defines \u201Cconservation land\u201D, because stewardship land most certainly is not conservation land. That\u2019s the first thing. The second thing is that we need to respect the property rights of investors who already have enterprises on conservation land, including the conservation department\u2019s allocation to Rua Minerals for a new permit in the Coromandel bush last\u00A0week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5f0fe84-01e8-4eb3-a590-0025017c4243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd2a100a8ebf449aa859a2e9f3ad2a4d\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that the International Energy Agency\u2019s World Energy Outlook from 2021 states that the pathway for less than 1.5\u00A0degrees of warming needs \u201Cno new oil and gas fields approved for development\u201D and \u201Cno new coal mines or mines extensions\u201D, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204a690c75c6744e2bb26f736134aefff\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware of those aspirations. They will be taken into account and given appropriate importance as we secure energy resilience in New Zealand, and as the member and the person sitting next to her ride their bikes, know that coal is keeping the lights on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022de10bffacab74d0a85cfc92290a38322\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u002299b685733f3a4738825b44269f22296e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299b685733f3a4738825b44269f22296e\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: What commentary has he seen on Police\u2019s announcement of the National Gang Unit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00226fb297dbb21645128d6a68c7abb37440\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fb297dbb21645128d6a68c7abb37440\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Overwhelmingly positive commentary. Some have said that it has the potential to make a significant impact. Stuff reported that with 42 percent of gang members linked to reported crimes as a suspect or offender and 18 of percent of serious crimes committed by gang members, it\u2019s clear New Zealand has a gang problem. This Government is delivering new tools for police, like banning gang patches and insignia in public, which the unit will be able to use to disrupt and suppress gang activity. The feedback has been so positive that the Labour Party attempted to take credit for the announcement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d28879587ef4cfc9f4e03d0c00cfbe4\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with commentary that gangs will ignore police?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da8873258f124d49a3fc88ea32ab1564\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely not. New Zealand has a world-class police force, and I have full confidence that the men and women that go to work every day to keep Kiwis safe without fear or favour have the skills, training, capability, and, very soon, the tools to target, disrupt, and suppress the gangs and the misery that they cause in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022218c38ea3a32407586b169a76e27d4c1\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he have confidence that police can enforce the new tools the Government is giving them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdabde9efee644eea1aa429bde0d2c1c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Over the last six months, police have already shown that they\u2019re highly effective in prioritising public safety over gangs. The response to gang convoys has been outstanding. Law-abiding members of the public are having their rights protected over and above those of gang members. Police have also conducted 1,668\u00A0search warrants; 926 warrantless searches; entered 80,102 charges, warnings, and infringement notices; and seized 661 firearms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd259d291c7449fa83f81bfa51c0f4b5\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: Would he say that police in jurisdictions where gang patches are banned are just \u201Cwardrobe police\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022063705a3d0574ad6b5f9441ad5199cef\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: That is a ridiculous statement. This is a piece of wardrobe that creates drive-by shootings and gang conflicts, and markets to and targets young men for gang recruitment, and to earn the right to wear one, you have to show that you have the propensity to commit violent crime. There is a trail of tears and victims sitting behind every one of those gang patches. This Government is banning that part of the wardrobe that is clearly designed to intimidate and inflicts misery and violence on communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227647ce043a8848f9b3e8dfc538074377\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How many individuals are recorded as gang members on the National Gang List as of February 2024, and does this represent an increase of 176\u00A0individuals since he took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd106f7132d74096888ccacf05c71a6a\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have that exact number, but I can assure the member of this\u2014that under the previous Government we saw an over 50 percent increase in gang members in this country. We saw a 33 percent increase in violent crime in this country, and this Government has come in, and we\u2019ve been very clear about the fact that we are not going to tolerate that. And that is why you\u2019re seeing the police being so effective over the last six months in starting to suppress gang members in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3e90f57ff5b407fb6753cdef0766fb6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Economic Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022112c8ea483fa474798e2c41c6ed9d9a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022112c8ea483fa474798e2c41c6ed9d9a1\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Development: Talofa, Fofoga Fetalai, fa\u2018afetai tele. Does she agree with the Auditor-General that public sector organisations must have \u201Cclear policy, guidance, and procedures to manage the risks to procurement processes that can arise from actual, potential, and perceived conflicts of interest\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022 data-id=\u00224ec55886e6cd4df1b1507a076e8f4caf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ec55886e6cd4df1b1507a076e8f4caf\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE (Minister for Economic Development):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7ebac6dc3eb4784ad250df37427bf49\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does she have confidence that the Minister of Health appropriately managed the risks to perceived conflicts of interest in the awarding of recent mental health contracts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a65e2f5be754239af72e29e32f3b0f3\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: I have no responsibility for the Minister of Health awarding the mental health contract. If the member is interested, he can write to the Minister or actually put the oral question to the correct Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd2eaf6965a24dfbaed187c549ae3677\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What steps will she take to ensure that her responsibility in procurement, when it comes to mental health contracts, follows the best practices of procurement processes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022751a684ec4054f9c86cab10e71783626\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: What I can tell the member is that I, as Minister, am responsible for the procurement framework\u2014which the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) is actually responsible for. But in terms of the procurement for the mental health issue that he is actually talking about, it is part of our Budget 2024, where we commit to the mental health services for our young people. That is not a lesson or a lecture that I am prepared to take from that member or that party, who actually wasted $1.9 billion of taxpayer money for mental health and actually did not deliver very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223617501284fb44b28cdefba4773cac7a\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say in response to the submission on the Fast-track Approvals Bill by the Auditor-General that \u201CMinisters of course have a broad discretion to make decisions, however that power comes, in my view, with an obligation to be transparent to the public about how and why they made those decisions, particularly where those decisions differ from official advice.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c569be4175049318f9def5809590287\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: As I said earlier to that member, as Minister, I am responsible for the procurement framework; however, responsibility for each procurement sits with the portfolio Minister responsible. Having said that, the Fast-track Approvals Bill has joint Ministers responsible: the Minister for Infrastructure, the Minister of Transport, and the Minister for Regional Development. If that member is really interested, he will put that question to those Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229dc96e977b424745883eac0959328aea\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Does the fact that there is a commitment in the coalition agreement on the management of conflicts of interest mean that normal procurement processes don\u2019t apply?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002218f9e3ea-81c5-4414-af48-d6bb843a9227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e758e033e2e94575bb6fb3f435820808\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE\u003C/span\u003E: The procurement framework is something that I am responsible for as Minister, and MBIE, as an entity, provides advice to Government agencies so that they can actually exercise their responsibility to make procurement responsible\u2014so that they are putting in good practices. But individual Ministers\u2014if there are conflicts of interest in terms of procurement, it will be managed through the normal Cabinet process and ministerial responsibilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d70faa67a1c842cb96af2324d4038869\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, that\u2019s very good. That concludes oral questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002293d05ae38d3b41d78ad354f03a9d1ede\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226161521ad6fc4168bae48b2fc4851499\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u00227e9c99bb3d634e3e8883cf99ea1ab2eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e9c99bb3d634e3e8883cf99ea1ab2eb\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ETomorrow, when the Government\u2019s Budget is read, there will of course be lots of numbers, as the Government has already indicated, but there are two numbers that New Zealanders should keep in mind in tomorrow\u2019s Budget. The first of those is $250\u2014$250 a fortnight is what Nicola Willis and Christopher Luxon promised the average New Zealand family in tax cuts. Up and down the country, they said that the average New Zealand family would be $250 a fortnight better off as a result of their tax cuts. So that\u2019s the first number. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe second number they should keep in mind is $2.9 billion\u2014$2.9 billion is the cost of the tax breaks that the Government has chosen to prioritise for landlords. Keep in mind that it is probably going to be one of the single biggest line items in tomorrow\u2019s Budget in terms of changes. So every time Nicola Willis says, \u201CWe\u2019ve had to make tough choices.\u201D, \u201CWe can\u2019t fund this.\u201D, or \u201CWe\u2019ve cut that.\u201D, keep in mind that that is because they prioritised $2.9 billion in tax cuts for landlords. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe things that New Zealanders will be looking for from the Budget tomorrow include answers to the real financial pressures they face right now, and that was set out in pretty stark terms by the Reserve Bank this week. What are the things that are really hurting Kiwi household budgets right now? What are the reasons that inflation is staying higher for longer? They are: (1) increased rents; (2) increased insurance; (3) increased rates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EWhat are the Government\u2019s answers to those three things? New Zealanders will want to see that in the Budget tomorrow, because until the Government addresses those three issues\u2014increased rents, increased insurance, and increased rates\u2014interest rates are going to stay higher for longer. The Reserve Bank has been very clear about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003ESo what is the Government doing to address the cost of living pressures New Zealand faces? Well, we know that they\u2019re going to be hiking up public transport costs, we know that they\u2019re going to be taking away free prescriptions, we know that they\u2019re going to be making cuts to the disability sector, we know that they are going to be halving the value of the school lunches programme\u2014it\u2019s kind of gone from a free and healthy school lunch programme to a slightly less healthy snack programme in schools as a result of the Government\u2019s changes\u2014and, of course, we know that they are going to rob a whole generation of New Zealanders of the dream of homeownership by doing something that none of them said they were going to do before the election, in cutting the first-home buyer grant scheme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI want to pay tribute to the hard-working New Zealanders who are being thrown on the economic scrap heap by this Government, and here\u2019s a surprising thing: it is not just public sector workers who are finding themselves in that situation. Up and down the country, we\u2019re hearing reports from those working in infrastructure and in the building and construction sector where those sectors have had the bottom fall out since this Government was elected because the Government had decided on coming into office that they\u2019d stop all the school rebuild projects and the school upgrade projects, they\u2019d slow down or stop the hospital rebuild projects, they\u2019d grind the transport infrastructure projects to a halt, and they\u2019d stop investment in water infrastructure, among other things, and the thousands of people working in those sectors have suddenly found that their work has dried up. Those are private sector jobs, but it is the Government\u2019s decision making that has actually taken those jobs away from those workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EThe cuts that the Government is making to supposedly back-office services highlight just what a farce the notion of the back-office/front-line distinction is. Cutting people who work on child exploitation is a cut to a front-line service. Cutting people who prevent online scams is a cut to a front-line service. Cutting the people who work at our border to stop drugs coming into the country and to stop biosecurity incursions\u2014that is a cut to a front-line service. We\u2019ve seen the results of that before in the form of Mycoplasma bovis, among other things\u2014a disease that cost hundreds of millions of dollars for New Zealand to eradicate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003EI think that the Government have a lot of choices in this year\u2019s Budget. The evidence so far suggests that the choices they have made have been the wrong choices. The $250 a fortnight that they\u2019ve promised to families\u2014will they get it? Probably not, because $2.9\u00A0billion in tax breaks for landlords is a higher priority for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u002240138470defd432cbfd1b96fc5190c73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240138470defd432cbfd1b96fc5190c73\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E E tukituki ana te iwi M\u0101ori i \u0113nei mahi raweke o te K\u0101wanatanga ki runga i te iwi M\u0101ori. In\u0101ianei, e kite ana te iwi M\u0101ori i \u0113nei mahi, e rongo ana te iwi M\u0101ori i \u0113nei mahi, e k\u014Dkiri ana te iwi M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei rangi tonu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E[The M\u0101ori people are offended due to the meddlesome actions of the Government on the M\u0101ori people. The M\u0101ori people can see what is being done, they hear what is happening, consequently the M\u0101ori people are marching on this very day.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EHe Whakaputanga 1835 was a declaration to the world of our independence. And Te Tiriti o Waitangi, some five years later, provided the pathway for our mahi tahi. Te Tiriti o Waitangi established this K\u0101wanatanga that we stand in today. And yet when will we see an honourable K\u0101wanatanga that will genuinely uphold its obligations to Te Tiriti o Waitangi? We have a Crown who has prioritised its coalition agreement above its obligations to te iwi M\u0101ori e t\u0101tou m\u0101\u2014no consultation with te iwi M\u0101ori for these widespread changes to legislation that hit us under urgency. There is a duty to act in good faith, and yet the Government fails its obligations to te iwi M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ELet me tell you about te mere whakakopa. In 1845, Hone Heke took a mere pounamu, to Kawiti, smeared in human t\u016Btae, in human excrement. That pounamu represents te rangatiratanga o te iwi M\u0101ori. The t\u016Btae, the human excrement, is a representation of the obliteration and the undermining of rangatiratanga of P\u0101keh\u0101 on our people in 1845. And, I say to you, this has not changed. We are watching the recolonisation of Aotearoa New Zealand. As this Government seeks to erase its obligations to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, undermining the sacred covenant that our t\u016Bpuna signed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EK\u0101wanatanga was enabled through Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Let\u2019s look at the laws: Te Aka Whai Ora, smoke-free legislation, te reo M\u0101ori, threats on the M\u0101ori and Pacific admission scheme and also on the Waitangi Tribunal, 7AA, gang laws, the laws around tenancy and also for our wh\u0101nau in rental accommodation, fast-track legislation, the removal of accountability for Te Mana o te Wai yesterday in this House, the removal of clauses relating to Te Tiriti in corrections, the funding freeze on marine and coastal area takutai moana claims, the full-scale review of Te Tiriti clauses within our legislation, and, of course, the Treaty principles bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ETe iwi M\u0101ori feel embattled by these continued attacks by te K\u0101wanatanga in our communities. And, as I refer to Nicki Wakefield, who was a kaik\u014Drero on behalf of Ng\u0101ti Kahu o Torongare in the fast-track hearing, she shared, \u201CWe participate in this process under duress, in opposition to these processes which impact on our tino rangatiratanga.\u201D Te iwi M\u0101ori have continued our affirmations of mana motuhake through the generations. Our people mobilise tomorrow. Te iwi M\u0101ori meets at \u014Cmahu Marae for the hui taumata. Undermining tangata whenua rights is a rupture to the social fabric of Aotearoa New Zealand. Social cohesion is at risk\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fa0c88e27194e24ac832d2cb3a4ba48\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Who wrote this rubbish?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aa7c5f1832d497d8b4409fed42318a5\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as this Government moves to erase its accountability to Te Tiriti o Waitangi and te iwi M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about M\u0101ori wards, Matua Winston. Let\u2019s talk about it. The Waitangi Tribunal has called out this Government. It is a breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi that you will take out M\u0101ori wards. Last week, Far North District Council stood, and they provided a motion of tautoko to Local Government New Zealand. Councillor T\u0101mati R\u0101kena stood, and he said, \u201CWhen M\u0101ori councillors fight for better roads, better housing, better water infrastructure, we aren\u2019t voting for M\u0101ori alone. We fight for clean drinking water and for better roads for the entire Far North community. I oppose any attempts to undermine or dilute our voices\u201D. E mihi ana ki a koe, T\u0101mati.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ETonight at 11.59, submissions close on M\u0101ori wards, and I invite the people of New Zealand to unite with us in upholding Te Tiriti o Waitangi and providing the important voice of M\u0101ori at the decision-making table in local government. The Green Party will stand in solidarity with te iwi M\u0101ori as we look to protect the papa pounamu of He Whakaputanga me Te Tiriti o Waitangi and seek to uphold those things that are important to us, Matua Winston. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002242731f1442544486aceefe467922ff8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242731f1442544486aceefe467922ff8e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Fourteen years\u201414 years\u2014since the tax thresholds have been changed in this country. We\u2019ve had 40 percent inflation since 2010 and that has forced people into higher tax brackets, with a result that for people on the median income their average tax rate has gone from 15 percent to 21\u00A0percent, and that takes a lot of money out of the pockets of average-income-earning New Zealanders because of inflation. And so it\u2019s 2010\u2014and tomorrow in the Budget, we\u2019re going to be changing that and restoring some realism to the tax brackets that we\u2019ve had no changes to for 14 years. You\u2019ve got to go back to 2010 since they were last dealt with. Look, 2010 is a different era entirely, think about it: Lorde was still at school on the tennis courts\u2014she hadn\u2019t written \u201CRoyals\u201D in 2010; Netflix hadn\u2019t been streamed in New Zealand for another five years\u2014it would be five years; Phil Goff\u2014Phil Goff was the future of the Labour Party in 2010, and Shane Jones was a member of the Labour Party in 2010. It was a different world. Since that time, since 2010, we still haven\u2019t had any changes to the tax thresholds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s going to change in the Budget because the help is on its way. And why? Because Christopher Luxon and Nicola Willis have that fundamental core principle of the National Party and all the parties across our coalition, which is reward for effort. The New Zealanders who are working hard day in, day out to look after themselves and their family\u2014opening their businesses, running their retail shops, trying to find a living\u2014deserve some relief from the ever-increased tax take that has flowed from inflation, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re going to change it. That\u2019s why there\u2019s a sharp division across this House, because on one side of the House, we want to reward hard-working New Zealanders by letting them keep more of their own money so that they can afford to deal with the increasing, rising costs of living, to be able to buy the groceries that they need for their consumption, be able to fill their car with petrol to get around and do their stuff. This side of the House are about putting extra money in the hands of New Zealanders that they have earned. On that side of the House, they will fight tooth and nail never\u2014never\u2014to yield a cent of tax revenue, and that\u2019s what we saw from Chris Hipkins; it\u2019s what we\u2019re seeing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an interesting period, of course\u2014everybody out there is like peacocks trying to stand up for the next contest for the leadership of the Labour Party. We\u2019ve got Willie Jackson even going to Oxford in order to strut around in order to increase his credentials as potential leader of the Labour Party. We\u2019ve got Megan Woods, I think she\u2019d be good; her only response to any issue is to tax more\u2014it\u2019s a wealth tax, it\u2019s a capital gains tax. Even the doyen of tax policy over on the Labour side David Parker, who always looks a little bit dishevelled, but David \u201CPiketty\u201D Parker is the guy that sends all the thinking over at the Labour Party about yet more taxes to the solution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ENow the problem is\u2014the problem is\u2014that ultimately it\u2019s all about spending, because tax policy follows spending policy. And what we saw over the last six years was an 80\u00A0percent increase in spending. I defy anybody in this country anywhere to be able to point towards an 80 percent improvement in the delivery from the Government over the six years under Labour. That is why this side of the House spent six months going through every department trying to get some discipline back into spending. In my areas, in justice, and all areas that we\u2019ve been looking at, we\u2019re trying to restore some discipline to spending because, ultimately, it\u2019s New Zealanders that have to pay. And it\u2019s been made much worse by the fact that the previous guy\u2014Grant Robertson\u2014concealed a lot of the size of the deficit because they refused to actually fund a whole lot of things past one or two years, and so we\u2019re having to deal with that in the Budget. So it looked like we\u2019re in deficit, but, actually, we\u2019re in a much worse deficit because things like basic pharmaceutical funding hadn\u2019t been funded into the future, and we had to find that extra money. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESo, in this Government, it\u2019s about rebuilding the economy, restoring some discipline to spending, as well as the key areas that we\u2019re also focused on for New Zealand, which is restoring law and order, and actually delivering top-quality healthcare and education\u2014those are the core things that will make a difference to New Zealanders\u2019 lives. Tomorrow, New Zealanders will have some hope again. They\u2019ll have some hope that the Government is not all about taking more and more from their pockets and using the sneaky little tax of inflation to take more money out of their pockets, but actually to give some money back to New Zealanders so that they can spend it on the things that they want to spend it on for themselves and their family. That will make a real difference to New Zealanders tomorrow. It\u2019s about helping the squeezed middle get back on track. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb99003a78da43f7a9fa8651bd439227\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb99003a78da43f7a9fa8651bd439227\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Look, it\u2019s a real privilege to rise as the proud member of Parliament for Waimakariri. I\u2019ve been in this role 10 years now and I don\u2019t take that responsibility lightly. So that\u2019s why it\u2019s so good to be part of a coalition Government that will deliver the Woodend Bypass. We\u2019ll start construction at our first term. That Labour Government came in in 2017 and cancelled the former National Government\u2019s commitment to the Woodend Bypass, and it\u2019s brilliant to be part of a coalition Government that will reinstate that commitment and start construction in its first term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also a privilege to be New Zealand\u2019s first mental health Minister. In my first announcement, we talked about rolling out peer-support, lived-experience workers in emergency departments. That was a service we can roll out by delivering uncommitted funds in the Vote Health budget. Then with Gumboot Friday, we announced through a coalition agreement in Budget 2024, we\u2019re going to fund I Am Hope Foundation $24\u00A0million\u2014$6 million a year over four years\u2014that will deliver much-needed mental health counselling services to young people aged five to 25. That service will connect mental health professionals to young people in less than one week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EWhat we know is we\u2019re facing increased demand for our mental health services, specifically with our young people, and this investment announcement will go a long way to ensure our young people get the timely mental health and addiction support they need. So when the Labour Opposition wants to attack that announcement\u2014focus on the contracting, even though we\u2019ve said it\u2019s compliant with Government procurement rules\u2014what they\u2019re trying to deflect from is the Auditor-General report that came out last month that said even despite the $1.9\u00A0billion, wait times for specialist mental health services for young people had grown in the last six years. Only that Government could spend that amount of money for waiting times to go up. The Auditor-General also said he could not identify any value for money for taxpayers out of that funding announcement by that last Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThen we had the Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission that said despite the announcement of $1.9 billion\u2014that, to be frank, most New Zealanders are still looking for\u2014it made no material improvement. What we\u2019ve got is a Government now that\u2019s been very clear that we will save money in the back office of the public services and focus that on the front line. We\u2019ll get money out of the Beehive to grassroots organisations who are already delivering so they can scale up and respond to the need. That\u2019s why it was brilliant to stand with the coalition Government, the Deputy Prime Minister, to announce $24 million that will provide support to an extra 15,000 young people a year who need that valuable support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EIt was also a privilege to stand with the Prime Minister and the transport Minister, Simeon Brown, to announce $63 million towards Coastguard and Surf Life Saving\u2014$19 million for Coastguard, $44 million for Surf Life Saving. Our New Zealand search and rescue delivers thousands of lifesaving rescues every year, directly attributable last year to saving 161 lives. We got that money from the back office and we\u2019ve put it into the front line so many New Zealanders, when they go to the beach, when they go on the water, they can feel safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what you\u2019ve got in this coalition Government: a Government that is very prepared to get into the back office to save some money; get it to the front line. That\u2019s what we\u2019ll find with Budget 2024. We\u2019ve got one more sleep to go. What you\u2019re going to see is a Budget 2024 that will prioritise investment into public services. It will deliver personal tax reduction and deliver savings to get this country\u2019s books back on track; a Government that I\u2019m proud to be part of, that will invest more into front-line services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0c28c9854e347bc84dbbfa139711cc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0c28c9854e347bc84dbbfa139711cc2\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. We\u2019re on the eve of the Budget, and for the last couple of weeks I have been asking questions of the Minister for Children about the cuts to, as we have just heard, the back office, to redirect to the front line. But I will just say that when it comes to Oranga Tamariki, the Minister of Finance promised, before the election, that Oranga Tamariki, along with a few other agencies, would be specifically excluded from this fiscal savings initiative. That was the promise before the election. But then, after the election, she broke her promise and she asked the Minister for Children to go and find 6.5 percent savings within Oranga Tamariki, the organisation that is tasked with looking after our most vulnerable and at-risk children\u2014\u201CGo and find 6.5\u00A0percent from your back office and redirect that to the front line.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EWhat we have seen in the Minister of Finance\u2019s requirement of the Minister for Children, because of the Minister of Finance\u2019s incompetence to make her plan stack up, is that they have gone through a restructuring proposal, and in that proposal they are proposing to cut 447 jobs from Oranga Tamariki\u2014jobs they believe are back-office jobs. That is 9 percent of the organisation. This is all because the Minister of Finance could not make her plan add up. She\u2019s now including an organisation she said would specifically be excluded and requiring it to find this money\u2014this 6.5 percent; these 447 jobs. Questions I have asked in the House have demonstrated\u2014and I agree with Chris Hipkins\u2014that this definition of \u201Cback office\u201D and \u201Cfront line\u201D is farcical. We are talking about the International Child Protection Unit, responsible for child trafficking, sexual exploitation, worker exploitation, and so on. It includes the records team who hold the records on behalf of those who are in State care. It includes the child safety and harm team for those who have been harmed in State care. It also includes the lawyers, who the Minister recently said are not considered front-line workers, despite the work they do in the courts on behalf of Oranga Tamariki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EAnd it gets even more absurd than that. The Minister, in answer to written question No. 11262, in 2024, said that the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki is not a front-line role. Anyone who thinks that a Government agency can run without a chief executive needs a 101 on how our Government works. But worse than that, the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki is responsible for the 7,000 children who are in care and protection under the chief executive. The chief executive is their legal guardian\u2014essentially, their parent\u2014and to say that he is not front line is just absurd. I am worried about the impact that these cuts of 447 back-office\u2014which I dispute\u2014jobs are going to have on our most at-risk and vulnerable children. That number actually makes up 25 to 30 percent of the back office. It is going to bring the front-line services to their knees, and what impact will that have on our most vulnerable children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EIn the minute that I have remaining, I want to talk about what I am worried about for our children in terms of tomorrow\u2019s Budget. We have seen the cuts to the organisation and those that provide the services to them, but we are going to see tomorrow the cuts to the services and the contracts that are provided to them and those services in the community. Those service providers are going to hear at the eleventh hour whether they are going to have funding beyond the end of June. They are the ones who are delivering front-line services to our tamariki in the community. How many of their contracts are going to be cut? How many of those services are going to be impacted because this Government is finding those tax savings and cost cutting here to give $2.9 billion to landlords? They are prioritising landlords over our most vulnerable children. This is about choices and this Government has got its priorities wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022326e4a02ebb8424b93901492569ae251\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022326e4a02ebb8424b93901492569ae251\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Agriculture has been the backbone of New Zealand for the last hundred-plus years. Our Minister of Agriculture, Todd McClay, often reminds us that when farming does well, New Zealand does well. And to use a word much loved by my friend and colleague Mark Cameron, the \u201Ccounterfactual\u201D is also true. The previous Government spent six years undermining the future of farming with a raft of unnecessary, often conflicting, rules and regulations that were bad for farmers and rural communities. So many businesses, large and small, so many livelihoods across the mighty Rangit\u012Bkei and indeed across New Zealand are dependent on a buoyant agriculture sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003EThe mighty Rangit\u012Bkei represents heartland rural and provincial New Zealand at its best. Despite recent challenges, excellence shines through. I want to take this opportunity to talk about Jack Jordan from Taumarunui, New Zealand\u2019s top axeman, who just last week competed in Italy against 15 of the best from around the world and won the Stihl Timbersports World Trophy for the third year in a row, breaking his own world record in the process. And senior constable Conrad Smith from National Park, who was awarded a gold medal at the New Zealand Search and Rescue Awards held at Parliament last week for his outstanding service and commitment to search and rescue. And James and Debbie Stewart, farming at Dairylands near Fielding, who won the 2024 Fonterra Responsible Dairying Award at the New Zealand Dairy Industry Awards and are also the Ballance Farm Environment Award supreme winners for the Horizons region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003EOur farmers are indeed guardians of the land. We walk the talk. Kaitiakitanga is what we do; it\u2019s how we farm. A recent report from the University of Canterbury revealed 24\u00A0percent of New Zealand\u2019s native vegetation\u2014approximately 2.4 million hectares\u2014is on sheep and beef farms. This represents the largest amount of native vegetation outside of public conservation land, and it plays a vital, unheralded role in supporting biodiversity. National in this Government backs our farmers. Sixteen National MPs turned up to Gisborne in force last weekend for a fund-raising sports fixture. It was Federated Farmers versus the politicians to support the cyclone recovery and raise money for much-needed fencing. Minister of Agriculture Todd McClay proved fast on his feet down the wing. Local MP Dana Kirkpatrick did a magnificent job of organising. We won the rugby, lost the netball, happy to call it a draw. But the winners on the day were the farmers and rural communities on the East Coast, with over $300,000 raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003EFarming is the engine room of this great country. I am a proud farmer, and I\u2019m proud to be part of a Government that gets it; a Government that\u2019s committed to letting our farmers get back to doing what they do best: farm; to reducing red tape, cutting unnecessary compliance costs; a Government that\u2019s determined to get New Zealand back on track. We have a plan to grow the economy and backing our farmers to succeed is a huge part of that. Parts of Rangit\u012Bkei and indeed New Zealand are suffering the effects of a significant drought. We can\u2019t fix the weather, but changes to the Resource Management Act mean we don\u2019t have to worry about more red tape slowing us down, about ridiculous rules and compliance costs getting in the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003EMarket access\u2014let\u2019s talk about that. We can\u2019t get rich as a nation selling stuff to ourselves. We need to sell to the world, and we need to go to the world, and that\u2019s what this Government has focused on. In six months, the Prime Minister and Minister for Trade Todd McClay have focused on opening up new markets and solidifying our place in new ones. This Government is ambitious for New Zealand, with a plan to double agricultural exports over the next 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003EA Federated Farmers survey last year found over 70 percent of farmers\u2019 mental health and wellbeing was being adversely affected just by doing their job. This Government is doing something about it. We have Matt Doocey, New Zealand\u2019s first ever Minister for Mental Health, and we\u2019re funding the Gumboot Friday initiative $24 million over four years as part of tomorrow\u2019s Budget. Across there, the message hasn\u2019t changed. Even in Opposition, they\u2019re attacking farmers. They don\u2019t get farmers, they don\u2019t get rural New Zealand; we do and we\u2019re proving it. I\u2019m proud to be part of the solution. This Government\u2019s relentless focus on reducing red tape and allowing our farmers to get back to what they do best: farm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4c6ec11e88f409185490b2bcf5f2c58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4c6ec11e88f409185490b2bcf5f2c58\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. As the party with the largest M\u0101ori mandate and M\u0101ori electorates, I feel extremely confident in being able to stand and say that we have heard our people\u2019s call that they have reached the absolute point of intolerance. They are extremely intolerant of everything that they have had to endure with the dismantling of policies, of kaupapa, of passion, that have been put here to advance our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIn the words of some of our constituents, this is a Government that has unleashed an unholy or ruthless assault on M\u0101ori. I am extremely grateful because you have woken us up, and while it is not my intent to be in this House to teach how to be honourable or to practise tikanga, what I will do is use this K\u0101wanatanga space to w\u0101nanga rangatiratanga and speak to our own people. I will use this time and debate to speak to the 80 percent of our wh\u0101nau who were not raised in k\u014Dhanga reo, who were not encouraged to think about rangatiratanga, who, in fact, believed there was only one source of truth when it came to the empowerment of wh\u0101nau, who were raised not knowing how it is to be generation Te Tiriti, but instead fought for them. That includes people like myself, who were raised in the rangatiratanga and actually battled for these kaupapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI want to talk about our wh\u0101nau and our whenua and how important it is and remind that nothing that has been achieved today to bring generation Te Tiriti was won through not having to fight\u2014nothing. Despite many parties saying they were responsible for the k\u014Dhanga movement, the kura kaupapa movement, in fact, it was our own people who did that battle. We must remember that in this place all the time. Pari\u2019aka, K\u012Bngitanga, R\u0101tana\u2014they were all enactments of rangatiratanga. P\u016Bmau te reo, the kura kaupapa, the k\u014Dhanga movement\u2014all enactments of M\u0101ori rangatiratanga. Neither needed the K\u0101wanatanga\u2019s budget or permission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe have let the K\u0101wanatanga think that it has more power than it deserves, wh\u0101nau m\u0101. K\u0101wanatanga sees us transactionally and we often fall into that plight. They see us more transactionally than they do us being part of anything that is about growing us, about our transformation, and they use this control in the K\u0101wanatanga space to domesticate us. This place thinks that it understands and practises and upholds our tikanga without respect to w\u2019akapapa and without respect to kawa that comes from w\u2019akapapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI want us to remind ourselves, that 80 percent who sit on the fence, who sometimes are really troubled, while the 20 percent of those were growing the tangata Tiriti, the tangata whenua, the kura kaupapa, the k\u014Dhanga movement, our generation Tiriti who have grown up, who understand their rights to be sovereign\u2014I want to remind us that when the strongest power within Aotearoa stands up and says that you are not able to strike, that puts the fear and uses the forked tongue to frighten you, to say that you do not understand what that means. I want to remind you of your own rights and your own sovereign enshrined in Te Tiriti. I want to remind you of your own tino rangatiratanga which means we must always stand up and protect our mokopuna.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EI want to remind you of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, the Human Rights Act, and all the aspects that mean that we cannot be sacked because of our race or our politics. I want to remind you of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which protects our right for self-determination. A singular absence is not fair ground to be dismissed, and, in fact, would raise issues of discrimination. Bad be it on a leader who would use the media to set and sic themselves on people who would be scared and not as unapologetic as the 80 percent of those of us who have been raised in believing that the K\u0101wanatanga is necessary to give us permission to practise and, indeed, assert our rangatiratanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EWe have been and always have asserted our rangatiratanga. It existed for thousands of years before the unnatural interruption. I want to remind you: do not be imprisoned by those uncles that don\u2019t believe in rangatiratanga. Tomorrow, turn up. Tomorrow, we will greet you, we will meet you, we will welcome you, and you will be heard and seen. To those who don\u2019t believe in your rangatiratanga, kei te pai. We will cover you. We will always look after you. But those of our mokopuna and our younger generation who do believe in rangatiratanga, who have been raised to fight for rangatiratanga, follow us tomorrow and listen for the k\u014Drero on Friday, because you will welcome it. Kia ora r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00220b42f43e4b3244799fa28b2911b1cafd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b42f43e4b3244799fa28b2911b1cafd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E What we\u2019ve heard is the chorus of victimhood. We\u2019ve not heard from the M\u0101ori Party; we\u2019ve heard from a party of radical extremists\u2014so motivated in their commitment that they couldn\u2019t even file their own question today. That\u2019s how diligent they are. That\u2019s why there\u2019s 11 questions and not 12 there\u2014because they\u2019re so motivated protesting, they can\u2019t even do their job. They don\u2019t want democracy; they want anarchy. They purport to represent M\u0101ori even though the vast majority of M\u0101ori don\u2019t vote for them. They deliberately attack individual Ministers with childish schoolboy slurs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214ee3d6b305046c4be335027d566a3f1\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Who voted for you? Kore\u2014kore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237527b070fff4cf48a1e99eb47c3bdd2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that are only designed to stoke racial division. You see? She hasn\u2019t finished her speech, has she? Here she is in a most un-M\u0101ori way\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2edbf2ac60a47f1be33af3f5c40014e\u0022\u003EHon Nicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I can\u2019t hear a thing. There\u2019s just constant yelling from my right side here. I would really like to hear the Hon Winston Peters\u2019 speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022025afe9c3c554592958e0e4c7c00454a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s noticeable that the speech delivered by the previous speaker, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, was heard respectfully in silence and this one will be too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259e1215e0e6944b59ff83da615cdeb03\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: They actively call the Government a P\u0101keh\u0101 Government with P\u0101keh\u0101 laws when two of the three leaders of the coalition are M\u0101ori and there are a record number of M\u0101ori in Cabinet\u2014far more than they\u2019ll ever have or they\u2019ve ever had. Now, they personally attack M\u0101ori Ministers for not growing up M\u0101ori enough, for being sell-outs, for wanting to exterminate M\u0101ori, for being white supremacists, for being racist, for wanting everybody to be white. These are quotes from the M\u0101ori Party recently. And this kind of garbage in the New Zealand Herald on the 24th of this month? [Holds up newspaper clipping] Absolute drivel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWho trains these people? Who educated them? And where were they when the crisis of M\u0101oridom was happening so many times in the last century? Never saw any of them. The only M\u0101ori they acknowledge and want to represent are the minority who think like them. If you are M\u0101ori and don\u2019t think like them, then you\u2019re not a real M\u0101ori. See how convenient it is? The sooner the media realises that, then the sooner will we see the blatant racist rhetoric they use as their weapon of choice\u2014blatant racist rhetoric. Their rhetoric belongs in the gutter and should be called out by the media for what it is and would be in a nanosecond if the racial roles were reversed\u2014would be in a nanosecond if the racial roles were reversed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EWe know some of your backgrounds. Don\u2019t come walking in here and tell me, from Ng\u0101ti Wai, \u201CI don\u2019t know your background.\u201D or where you weren\u2019t when we were fighting for M\u0101ori. They\u2019re now calling for a revolution, promoting images of guns on social media. They are calling for protests. They\u2019re calling for protests to disrupt and block our streets by stoking racial division. Make no mistake. Racial division is exactly what they want, not unity. They actively promote wanting a separate Parliament. They want separate laws. They want separate land. They want separate constitutions. We should never accept this ignorant extremist rhetoric as a new kind of political discourse in our country. It\u2019ll damage our country beyond repair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EThe M\u0101ori Party pales in comparison to the great past M\u0101ori leaders such as Carroll, Ngata, Pomare, and Buck. They wouldn\u2019t be even qualified as to policy issues\u2014so much so that they never ever mention those four men\u2014never! Never mention Whina Cooper, because she said we signed the Treaty to become one people, and that\u2019s the last thing they want. They\u2019re racist and they\u2019re separatists. Now, these great M\u0101ori leaders all wanted unity for everyone in New Zealand, not separatism, as did Dame Whina Cooper. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EOur Government can fix the economy, infrastructure, law and order, and the education and health systems. But if we don\u2019t fix this separatist agenda from the extreme corners of our political system, all of that will be for nought. We will be on a pathway to becoming the next Venezuela or like the former apartheid South Africa. And let me tell you, some of you: we\u2019re not listening to you. You show me one thing you\u2019ve ever done for your people. Show me one thing you\u2019ve ever done for your people. Over here, we\u2019ve got people with a magnificent record, decades and decades of work, great court cases, won all on a risk, using our own money. What\u2019s their sacrifice? On the taxpayer\u2019s teat all their life and they\u2019ve come in here and they\u2019re going to lecture to us. You\u2019ve come to the wrong marae here\u2014make no mistake. Our Government intends to fix all of these things for New Zealand, to lift every New Zealander, M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori, together as one. That is the only way our country will succeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003EAnd by the way, when you spend $350,000 of taxpayers\u2019 charity money illegally on an election campaign, they should be called out. Why isn\u2019t the media screaming from the rafters now? They did it all the time about the Serious Fraud Office and we smashed the Serious Fraud Office three times. But these people are guilty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00224d8136cbea1f4c01a7003e6baac76457\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d8136cbea1f4c01a7003e6baac76457\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The M\u0101ori people are a smart people, and they can see right through politics. When it comes to a Budget, the saying and the expression is true: money talks, and Warriors bandwagon fans walk. M\u0101ori are up front about it: on Budget day, money talks. From the other side of the House, we hear these grand gestures of equity. One need only look at the data to show where funding needs to go in order to make sure that equity is achieved. So, in order to help some of the members who weren\u2019t here at least year\u2019s Budget, on the other side of the House, I\u2019m going to paint a wee picture for them. The total M\u0101ori package at last year\u2019s Budget was just over $825 million. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c84031fd0461497cab0e0c8c0a58a16b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Well, why are you in Opposition, then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022621fee53178d4082941595a2fe67813f\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: I want to run through a few of those initiatives that got outcomes to close the equity gap that that member lambasts so much about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIn Budget 2023, $200 million was invested through the Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga programme. I hear members on the other side of the House say, \u201CWell, what did it achieve?\u201D Let me tell that member what it achieved: it approved and contracted well over a thousand homes, enabled 1,700 infrastructure sites to see more green sites to allow building, it also supported 415 repairs to existing homes, and, just as importantly, it also offered first-home buyer grants to M\u0101ori, to P\u0101keh\u0101, to Pacific peoples, to people right across this country to allow them to get into their first home; first-home loan grants. Guess who\u2019s getting rid of that in this upcoming Budget!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ELet me take members on the other side of the House through another little journey. \u201CThis Government\u201D\u2014and this was myself last year\u2014\u201Cbacks Wh\u0101nau Ora and has committed a further $168.1 million over four years\u201D. Wh\u0101nau Ora has already been applauded by this current Government for doing good work into our communities. We will be watching with a very keen eye on whether or not this Government will continue to support Wh\u0101nau Ora. One of those kaupapa is a kaupapa dear to my heart and the heart of my colleague here the Hon Willow-Jean Prime, that\u2019s Ng\u0101 Tini Whet\u016B\u2014that\u2019s to stop our tamariki from entering into the Oranga Tamariki system, supporting families to make sure that they can achieve their aspirations and now, more importantly, our tamariki can be well supported. The increase I just mentioned in the Wh\u0101nau Ora budget under the Labour Government was an increase of 145 percent in funding. What that did was achieve more outcomes for M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori right across this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIn health\u2014we hear about equitable funding in health. Well, that side of the House, like everyone in this House knows, that health outcomes for M\u0101ori are the poorest in the country. So, in order to get equity, you\u2019ve got to be able to fund it to make sure that equitable outcomes are borne out. I can tell that side of the House that, in last year\u2019s Budget, $132\u00A0million was put forward for M\u0101ori health. That was to support providers for cheaper access to primary care for M\u0101ori and for rural communities. That side of the House talked about \u201CWe\u2019re here to support the farmers, rural communities.\u201D, this funding right here supported M\u0101ori and rural communities, and this Government is getting rid of it. I heard Dr Shane Reti in this House say, \u201CThe way forward for M\u0101ori health is the Iwi-M\u0101ori Partnership Boards.\u201D Well, money talks, and that\u2019s what the Labour Government did last year. They put money towards the Iwi-M\u0101ori Partnership Boards. So we\u2019ll be making sure to keep an\u00A0eye on this current health Minister to see whether or not he backs up his talk with a bit\u00A0of\u00A0money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EInto education\u2014education, that investment of $225 million directly into M\u0101ori education. Paying k\u014Dhanga reo teachers what they are worth, making sure that they were paid to give the services of language to our young people for the future. It helped a further 25,000 students, and a further 325 schools and kura across this country. There was so much good news in last year\u2019s Budget. Te Matatini is a fantastic kaupapa that\u2019s seen the investment of significant dollars to make sure that we can continue to support Te Matatini\u2014$34 million over two years, and we\u2019ve seen that particular funding do well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236335abbc8894d03af038825bfd44d96\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Come on, Peeni, say something inspiring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b8d3c8b2101465d8de74f902e104e30\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE\u003C/span\u003E: Those members went to Te Matatini and saw how big it was. That is because money talks. This National-led Government, when it comes to money, they\u2019re not very good at it. This Budget is going to come down to two things for this Government: broken promises, and choices\u2014choices to support landlords instead of the people who need it the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022 data-id=\u00224794a9df6846497f913189b84822e43a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224794a9df6846497f913189b84822e43a\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Talofa lava. Happy Samoan Language Week. This is my first contribution to the general debate in this House, and I would like to use this opportunity to thank the people of Mt Roskill for their trust and support in electing me as the first National MP for Mt Roskill. People in Mt Roskill are the reason why I\u2019m here today. Because I care about them, I want the best of them, and I\u00A0want to create opportunities for them for a brighter future. As their local MP, it is my job to bring their voices to the Parliament. Since being elected, I\u2019ve been actively engaging with my constituents from all corners of the Mt Roskill electorate, across different industries, professions, religions, ethnicities, and needs. I\u2019m committed to listen to their voices and be a strong advocate. I hear their voices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003EPeople in Mt Roskill tell me that every day they struggle with the cost of living. Families are having to work extra hours and pick up a second job just to meet their needs. But no matter how hard they work, there is nothing left in their bank account at the end of the week. Families with young children are struggling to afford the rising cost of childcare fees. I hear you and we respond. This is why this Government is going to give you a tax relief in this year\u2019s Budget. The tax thresholds haven\u2019t been adjusted for 14\u00A0years\u201414 years. Increases to the current income tax threshold will allow hard-working New Zealanders to keep what they earn. Our tax relief packages will increase the take-home income of 83 percent of New Zealanders over the age of 15 and 94 percent of households. We\u2019ll also deliver FamilyBoost policy to support our hard-working families. From 1 July, parents and caregivers of young children will be supported with a tax rebate of up to $75 per week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003EPeople in Mt Roskill are also concerned about crime. Under the previous Government\u2014their soft-on-crime approach\u2014crime is out of control and people in Mt\u00A0Roskill don\u2019t feel safe anymore. I hear them and we respond. That\u2019s why, earlier this month, I organised a public meeting with police to give Mt Roskill residents the opportunity to share their concerns and feedback with the police. We are committed to making Mt Roskill a safer community for all. This is why this Government will deliver 500 more front-line police on the beat. This Government will also invest $1.9\u00A0million in more front-line Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity. We have a target to reduce youth crime by 15 percent to make our streets safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003EPeople in Mt Roskill also value education. I\u2019m proud to report to the House that I have visited every single school in my electorate, including primary, intermediate, and secondary schools and specialty schools. Principals are telling me that they struggle with teacher recruitment. We hear them and we respond. We will invest $52.6 million to attract, train, and retain our teachers workforce as part of getting our education system back on track. This Government is also delivering a more efficient healthy school lunches programme, extending it to 10,000 early childhood kids and saving taxpayer money and $107 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003EPeople in Mt Roskill are also concerned about the broken mental health system. We hear them. This is why we have the first ever Minister for Mental Health, the Hon Matt Doocey, and we are investing $24 million into Gumboot Friday to include their counselling pool and provide 160,000 free counselling sessions for New Zealanders aged between five and 25.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587eeeae-8af5-4e11-ac7f-a7690f9c7c3a\u0022\u003ETomorrow will be a great day for Mt Roskill and a great day for New Zealand because we will deliver a Budget which will help our working class. Our Budget will rebuild the economy, restore law and order, and deliver on public services like health and education. Budget\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab80f70cb82b4cdfac63ea8dfe53eda0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab80f70cb82b4cdfac63ea8dfe53eda0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4663ea60e92499f97a0b0a58be6305a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4663ea60e92499f97a0b0a58be6305a\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. In the last few weeks, I have been quite concerned. I have been concerned because of the comments that I hear from that side of the House. I have been concerned because of the phrases that I hear in the speeches that are being made from that side of the House. This is because in those phrases, in those comments, what I see is prominence given to a particular race: the M\u0101ori race. And not just that, it is about putting M\u0101ori against P\u0101keh\u0101. It\u2019s about M\u0101ori versus P\u0101keh\u0101. And in all this, I want to ask a question. It\u2019s a daunting question but I want to ask this question: where do I sit? Where is my place in all this? When I say this \u201Cmy place\u201D, I don\u2019t mean me per se here; I mean migrant communities. Where do migrant communities sit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIf you look at our statistics, by the end of this year\u2014that is 2024\u2014we will have around 880,000 Asian people in New Zealand. If you look at migrants\u2014those who have come from different countries around the world to New Zealand to make New Zealand their home\u2014that population is quite significant. People have been here from Europe for a number of years, we have people from the Middle East, we have people from Africa, and so many countries that there\u2019s a significant population. And if we look at the numbers in the census that are released today, 29 percent of New Zealanders identify as ethnicities that are not P\u0101keh\u0101 or M\u0101ori, and this number is only going to grow. So my question is: where do these migrant communities sit? As an immigrant, I\u2019m really proud of the migrant communities for the contribution they make. I\u2019m really proud of the migrant communities for the wealth of experience they bring to New Zealand to enrich our country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIn all this, what I also notice is that that side\u2014this is, Labour, Greens, and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014when they go out to public functions, they look really passionate towards those communities. But as soon as they come in the House, it becomes only about M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101. This is New Zealand\u2019s Parliament, this is the 21st century. And I have gone around and spoken to many, many families and they have told me that based on what they have been seeing in this House, they are reminded of what their forefathers went through when they came to New Zealand in late 1800s and early 1900s. They went through discrimination, prejudice, struggle, hardship. They said to me that they don\u2019t want to be reminded of all that. They have said that the road to be where we are today hasn\u2019t been easy. It\u2019s because of their courage, it\u2019s because of their struggles we have been able to come to this stage where New Zealand has become such a welcoming country to all migrants, and that\u2019s how we want to keep it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI would say that, yes, I don\u2019t look like all those migrants, I don\u2019t sound like all those migrants, but I do understand their frustration. And I want to say to migrant communities, don\u2019t let anyone else choose your place in your home country. I said to migrant communities that you have the right to thrive here just like anyone else. And I said to migrant communities, \u201CDon\u2019t let the voice of division and hate let you doubt your place in your own home country, New Zealand.\u201D In New Zealand, our communities have come from all parts of the world, and that is what makes New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EI want to also say this to migrant communities: \u201CStand tall, stand proud, this is your home country. You have sacrificed to be here and you are making the contribution to make this country a great country that New Zealand is.\u201D I want to say to migrant communities: \u201CBe where diversity is valued. Be where unity is celebrated. Be where equality is recognised.\u201D And that is the ACT Party. I also want to say this to migrant communities that the ACT Party really recognises the new face of New Zealand, the new New Zealand, the multicultural New Zealand. That side wants to take New Zealand back to the 1800s, but the ACT Party will not let that happen. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u00228056c79a372449e9a349e9fb4b2252bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228056c79a372449e9a349e9fb4b2252bf\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Te Tiriti o Waitangi was signed in 1840, and that is why I am able to stand in this House, because I am welcome in this place. That is the reason that Dr Parmjeet Parmar, the previous speaker, is able to stand in this House and is welcome in this place and in this land. It is because of that agreement and because of the welcome of the indigenous people of this land. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI just want to talk briefly about nature, and nature is our national asset here. Nature, though, has the potential to be a train wreck. If we look at this Government\u2019s so-called Fast-track Approvals Bill, it has the potential to take New Zealand backwards. We listen and look at the submissions coming through, and there are the challenges that people are showing in terms of this attack on nature and on our natural environment. We on this side of the House are doing what we can and we did what we could in the previous Government to ensure that, yes, we can farm; yes, we can look after; yes, we can develop; and, yes, we can ensure that we have good quality infrastructure. But not at the cost of nature, because when it\u2019s gone, when we kill even one of those 4,000 species of endangered flora and fauna, it is gone for ever\u2014for ever\u2014and I\u2019m not going to stand here and let that happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis is about the choices that this Government is making to run roughshod over so many pieces of legislation that have been put in place over the years, even taking it back to 1953 in terms of the Wildlife Act. It\u2019s just throwing caution into the wind for the sake of development. As we\u2019ve heard today in this House\u2014and we\u2019ve looked at the report from the Auditor-General on the concerns around procurement and the concerns around some of the weaknesses and some of vital parts of transparency\u2014we need to ensure that this House and this Government are squeaky clean. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ECurrently, there are challenges and there are cracks. We\u2019ve heard that in question time today, and we\u2019ve seen that over recent weeks. Whether it\u2019s the procurement of mental health or whether it\u2019s text messages being sent to organise people to head up boards and infrastructure, we need to make sure that we hold this Government to account in order to ensure that the voting public get what was on the box, because, at the moment, I think what\u2019s in the tin isn\u2019t on the cover of the box. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EIn our select committee process, we have heard from less than 40 percent of individual submissions on the Fast-track Approvals Bill, and I just say that that is a crass override of democracy. When we had more than 27,000 submissions come in, with thousands upon thousands of individuals wanting to have their voices heard in this democratic system, less than 40 percent will have the opportunity to make an oral submission, and that is outrageous and that is wrong. This Government is taking New Zealand backwards. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThis Government is making choices that are not around the protection of nature or our native species, but they\u2019re making choices to disregard our endangered ecosystem. Whether it\u2019s Archey\u2019s frogs; whether it\u2019s our native kiwi, which we\u2019re so proud of; or whether it\u2019s the \u201Chysteria\u201D around climate change\u2014a comment that a Minister in this Government threw out in this House\u2014these comments are unhelpful and wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThese comments are running roughshod over 2.7 million hectares of stewardship land that we want to protect because it is managed for its natural and historical purposes\u2014and the Government members can laugh at that. They can laugh at the protection of native species. They can laugh at the historical importance of p\u0101 sites. They can laugh at the fact that they are running roughshod over things like wetlands. But we on this side of the House are fighting for nature. We are standing up for nature. We are making sure that our environment is protected and that the procurement systems and how that Government goes about doing its business\u2014they\u2019re held accountable for that, because we need to know that they are doing right by the voters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EIn closing, we want to make a stand, and we want to stand with the people of Aotearoa to make sure that we march for nature. On Saturday, 8 June, I\u2019ll be in Auckland supporting tens of thousands of New Zealanders, many of whom weren\u2019t able to speak in the select committee process. I\u2019ll be protesting\u2014yes, on a Saturday\u2014because we need to make sure that we march for nature. We need to ensure that we protect nature. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00226ac3b4126a734c06bc7a71bfbfc11d59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ac3b4126a734c06bc7a71bfbfc11d59\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the McLean Institute (Trust Variation) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022625a28f41a3a4a9e8e29f9fed9f2132b\u0022\u003EMcLean Institute (Trust Variation) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d56e3c918b824732bf6d0290b1eb6e92\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002235b901686ef745a3a0f268aaa7fed16d\u0022\u003EPreamble, clauses 1 to 7, and the Schedule\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226e0ad058d1824cd58bac2177fc3a3417\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e0ad058d1824cd58bac2177fc3a3417\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the McLean Institute (Trust Variation) Bill. We come first to the preamble. The question is that the preamble stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u002289711459ac324548bae6ee44c687ec35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289711459ac324548bae6ee44c687ec35\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move that all parts be heard as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222cf585f0685d4dfab7a288078228bcbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cf585f0685d4dfab7a288078228bcbb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that all parts be heard as one question. Is there any objection? There is no objection. The question is that the preamble, clauses 1 to 7, and the Schedule stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002275061fa7ab214bd8a82335bbef6bb0b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275061fa7ab214bd8a82335bbef6bb0b1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I will just, if I may, make a few introductory remarks for members\u2019 benefit. This bill is really a bill which tidies up the purposes of the McLean Institute trust deed because it\u2019s a deed that\u2019s over a century old, it made reference to \u201Cdestitute women of good character\u201D, and it really was not fit for purpose in a modern sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe main objective of this bill is to provide an updated trust deed but, at the same time, it does a couple of other things. The main other thing it does is make it clear that should the trust deed need amendment in the future, it need not come back to this House, but, by an amendment in clause 6, it\u2019s made clear that it\u2019s the same as any other charitable trust, and that the objects and purposes of the deed and so on could be amended by application to the High Court rather than this rather cumbersome and pretty resource-intensive process. I\u2019m hopeful I won\u2019t be challenged too much. It won\u2019t be a contentious bill, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bac73e431b04cda8baea843a838d0a4\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: You never know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224961d390677942659783b275ed9a7127\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014I never know\u2014I\u2019m happy to answer any members\u2019 questions that there may be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u00222922f390ad9b4cbc9c79e6b4ee5c6988\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222922f390ad9b4cbc9c79e6b4ee5c6988\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I don\u2019t rise to say too much, to be frank, because I think this is a matter that we\u2019re in agreement with. It is updating a will that was settled nearly 120 years ago. Maybe I\u2019ll just give the member an opportunity to elucidate for any of those watching in the Chamber just what the intention is in terms of expanding it from its original purposes, to who it can support\u2014those changes that this bill will allow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002251de2ca4f1cc4ef78f5646ac7d8b7a30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251de2ca4f1cc4ef78f5646ac7d8b7a30\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m very happy to just respond to these questions as they arise. The original trust deed had two classes of women who were able to be supported: one, in respect of the majority of the assets, was women of good character and high social standing who had fallen on hard times, and the other was destitute women\u2014basically, the lower classes. Clearly, in the modern world, that\u2019s not appropriate. The new deed, in modern language, simply says any woman who\u2019s in need of financial support can be supported by the trust fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u0022a202ba8c70fb4c638b0092e6538d9c58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a202ba8c70fb4c638b0092e6538d9c58\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m just confirming that the charitable purpose has been expanded to assist any women in the Canterbury area who are in need of support, regardless of social status, formal education, or other characteristics?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002214a4f427bff34980954207ea2fe34b13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214a4f427bff34980954207ea2fe34b13\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, that\u2019s exactly right. The deed itself refers to the region, and you\u2019re right: the region is the Canterbury region. The trustees are various dignitaries, including, I think, the Bishop of the Anglican Cathedral.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a04bdcb7aa434e96a4fc97fc19e9cc2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a04bdcb7aa434e96a4fc97fc19e9cc2f\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Now, there\u2019s just one small amendment that we would like to make, and currently, it is the definition of \u201Cchildren\u201D in the proposed trust deed. Now, the definition as it states at the moment says \u201CA reference\u201D\u2014it\u2019s clause 1.1.17 of the proposed trust deed\u2014\u201Ca reference to \u2018children\u2019 is a reference to children and young persons of any gender under the age of 18 years old, and is otherwise to be interpreted in its broadest possible sense\u201D. We would like to make an amendment for the clause to be replaced and made simpler by saying \u201Ca reference to \u2018children\u2019 is a reference to children and young persons under the age of 18 years old\u201D. Now, we just felt that the phrase \u201Cand is otherwise to be interpreted in its broadest possible sense\u201D could have possibly been a bit of a concern due to its vagueness and could lead to misinterpretation and some potential bias. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow, New Zealand First, as a party, we have always campaigned on and we continue to address and meet with groups who are concerned about gender ideology and how it is now affecting language, and the gradual creep that now seems to be appearing in legislation. So that is why we are recommending this change. We will continue to be a voice for those who feel unheard, particularly women who feel that their identity is being abandoned. Hence, we are tabling this amendment. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00228f46d51d5cc949f493aaf9ab3abe385d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f46d51d5cc949f493aaf9ab3abe385d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the member for her contribution. The trust deed has been carefully reviewed, and I don\u2019t think there is any lack of clarity in the proposed deed, in clause 1.1.17. It is really just making sure that although you\u2019ve got a trust which is predominantly for the protection of women in need, that any child can fall within that, regardless of whatever gender they are. So I really don\u2019t think it is an issue, and I would suggest to the Chamber that that amendment is not needed, and I won\u2019t be supporting it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1b3ca0acd764051b2fed0f83b1a31bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1b3ca0acd764051b2fed0f83b1a31bd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Tanya Unkovich\u2019s amendment to the Schedule set out on Amendment Paper 40 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227e5ae3f0241c485781b6655ae4245cb2\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 115\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; ACT New Zealand 11; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000415\u0022\u003EPreamble, clauses 1 to 7, and the Schedule agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000416\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000417\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d95924160faa4b6d88fdc6ecbeca582a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d95924160faa4b6d88fdc6ecbeca582a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the McLean Institute (Trust Variation) Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229fde49ae40f94d44ab48831441168a84\u0022\u003EChild Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c59f98ba8fc04585b123e46ca2a929d2\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00225f0a84182e4347eba66a043e1a05e699\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f0a84182e4347eba66a043e1a05e699\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIf you just indulge me, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8069cb1a8be48b6aa31e31aa2eb8554\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the member\u2019s been rather busy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022514a1246067942d88efe0bb733e2f419\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: This requires the same versatility and dexterity that my appearance on the rugby field in Gisborne did this last weekend\u2014and, hopefully, more successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022812d0a7703b44b20ad0ccf514c3cdf5f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just ask the Clerk to make sure that the clock is set for 10 minutes when the speaker starts. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022722044ce70864705aaaafbb4c09a72fb\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: That will be to the relief of my colleagues on this side, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill is now entering its third reading, and if it actually does pass today, it will be the first member\u2019s bill to have passed in the current Parliament. I think that\u2019s significant, because it\u2019s a bill that has had quite a considerable journey through the last Parliament and this Parliament. It has been considered by two Justice Committees, led by Vanushi Walters and James Meager. So because the subject of the bill, child sex offenders and protecting our children against them, is a topic that is near and dear to the hearts of not only all members but all New Zealanders, I think it\u2019s highly appropriate that it has had the agreement of virtually the whole House through all its readings. So it gives me great pleasure to be standing here today to be reading on what I hope is the passing of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ENow, when we speak of child sex offenders, I was a detective for many years in the New Zealand Police and dealt with a large number of offenders. But there was a class of offender that I dealt with\u2014particularly in my latter years when I actually established child abuse teams in Masterton and in Porirua, where I really had my eyes open to a whole different world of offending. Now, it\u2019s been apparent to me that, as this bill has made its way through the House, sometimes you don\u2019t realise how much you know, because of your previous experience. But what became apparent to me is that when I was dealing with members on all sides of the House and, in fact, any conversations I had, people, when they speak about child sex offenders, are often thinking of the man in the park, the horn-rimmed glasses guy who hovers, or the man in the blue van, who is the stranger that we warn our children against. But that\u2019s not where the danger is, because of most of the cases\u2014and I reflect on the cases I dealt with, and most police officers do\u2014almost invariably the offender and the victim are known to each other, or certainly, the offender is known to the victim\u2019s family. So when we look at the protections required for our children, in particular, it\u2019s important to note that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo this bill sits on top of a bill which was passed in 2015, which ensures that those who are placed on the register\u2014and shortly I\u2019ll go through the qualifying criteria\u2014have a special form of protection for potential victims but also for themselves, because of the unique nature of their offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI just wanted to speak about dealing with these offenders also. They are often seen and even portrayed sometimes in the media as predatory, well-planned people with a vast network that they\u2019re dealing with. Again, that\u2019s not the case. These people are often solitary. While we often see cases where they will join together through electronic and through making sure they access the type of material that we don\u2019t want them to, actually, when it comes to the offending, often it is very much lone offending. Interviewing these people, they\u2019re pretty pathetic sort of individuals themselves. And so when I say they need the protection, when they do go to prison, they have a very hard time in prison; some would say \u201CRightfully so.\u201D, but certainly it\u2019s not somewhere where they want to go back to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAnd these offenders actually have a relatively low recidivism rate compared to other offenders, again for two reasons: one, often they\u2019re older when they\u2019re found and the offending will be historical; secondly, they will actually have had programmes when they went through prison and are relatively well monitored. So it means we\u2019ve been relatively successful in ensuring that these people don\u2019t continue their predatory activities and we are able to protect our children in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo, when this bill was brought in originally, what it ensures is that when these offenders do go to visit family, if they\u2019re going to leave, once they\u2019re on this child register, if they do go to visit elsewhere\u2014they want to go to Napier for the weekend; they want to go to Dunedin for the weekend\u2014they are obliged to tell the police to tell their case officer where\u00A0they\u2019re going to be going, where they\u2019re going to be staying, and, importantly, any children that are going to be at that address, not only giving that protection to the children that will be at the address but also ensuring that they know that we know, which again is one of those big protections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHowever, what becomes apparent is that those same protections are not made available to those who are living overseas. Earlier this year, I was in the Cook Islands, and I outlined to the Cook Islands Parliament this piece of legislation as an example of a member\u2019s bill. And there was considerable interest because they know, there, that many of these offenders do go back to visit family in places like the Cook Islands, places like the Islands\u2014whether it be Queensland, Victoria. So while we\u2019re well aware of the offending that goes on in places like in the \u201Cgolden triangle\u201D up in Asia\u2014and that is another class of offending\u2014this really is designed to protect our children or grandchildren or children in general who are likely to be visited by these people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI\u2019m informed by police that there\u2019s about 20-odd individuals who do travel to Australia, who travel internationally, who are on this register each year. Now, these are not the very serious offenders, because the very serious offenders are actually usually still under probation; they\u2019re still under other orders, and they\u2019re very unlikely to ever get permission to travel overseas. These are the people who have served their time, who are on this register. And the research shows that they are likely to continue to offend throughout their lives. And so ensuring that we have the protections that they know that we know\u2014that\u2019s the best thing we\u2019ll consider that will keep our children safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo the bill, if these individuals have been placed on the register\u2014and, again, the registrable offender is a person who has been convicted of a qualifying offence, has been sentenced to imprisonment or has been sentenced to a non-custodial sentence, and has been made subject to a registration order. That order doesn\u2019t count if they were under 18 at the time of the offending. And those qualifying offences are class 1, class 2, and class 3 offences, as defined in the Crimes Act, and cover a full range of offending where the victim is under 16.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAlso pertinent to this bill, a corresponding registrable offender is a person who, as a consequence of a conviction in a foreign jurisdiction for a corresponding offence, has been sentenced to imprisonment or, essentially, would still be eligible for an equivalent child sex offender register in that jurisdiction. In other words, we could actually get offenders coming back to New Zealand who\u2019ve offended overseas and would actually be on our register. Once again, these are the very people who we are likely to see who will be actually travelling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo, look, just in the time that\u2019s left to me, I just want to, again, thank the House, thank the committees that have considered this bill and that have improved this bill. One improvement, or certainly change, that was made by the select committee is that it will be three months after the date of Royal assent before the bill comes into play. The reason for that is that it will take time\u2014these offenders need to be notified, those who are on the register notified, but also the police have to have time to get this up and running.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EAnother aspect that is covered is: will this be enforceable overseas? Technically and legally, no. However, New Zealand Police have liaison officers. We have good interactions, or Police have good interactions, with our agencies overseas, and they can, through these relationships, ensure that these people will be checked, because I know from dealing with my Australian colleagues\u2014bearing in mind that each state in Australia is a different jurisdiction and actually have the same problem\u2014that those same relationships become important in ensuring that they are actually able to track these offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo, again, I congratulate this House in anticipation of this bill going through today and also the committees that considered it, because I think, once again, this shows that this is a class of offending that we all understand the need to put in place all the protections we can so that those who will predate our children, those who will, basically, rob them of their adulthoods\u2014which, essentially, sex offending does\u2014we can deal with them appropriately. So I take great pleasure in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022382f528b816540f193d5045eef1c7cc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022382f528b816540f193d5045eef1c7cc6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c48ba3ad8af1463eb4a8a51dbf6d62fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c48ba3ad8af1463eb4a8a51dbf6d62fc\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just wanted to pay tribute to the sponsor, the previous speaker, Greg O\u2019Connor, for helping shepherd and lead this bill through the Justice Committee. Given all his years on the front line of police and representing the Police Association, he brought a depth of understanding to this piece of legislation as to why it was required and how it could best perform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EI also want to pay tribute to his predecessor with this, with the original bill being introduced by Erica Stanford. As Mr O\u2019Connor said, this bill\u2014now on its third reading\u2014traverses two Parliaments: the 53rd and the current Parliament, the 54th. I also want to pay tribute to our chair, James Meager, who also led us through this process over the last six months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s a very good day that this bill, after a couple of years, going through two Parliaments, two Justice Committees, two readings, a committee of the whole House stage, public submissions, some revisions, and a few improvements that we arrive at this place where it is going to be put on the statute book, hopefully, after this third reading this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAs has been highlighted by the sponsor, Mr O\u2019Connor, the bill\u2014full title: Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill; we\u2019ll just call it \u201Cthe bill\u201D, I think, going forward\u2014enhances New Zealand\u2019s capacity to protect children globally by ensuring that our police and our Customs Service and other authorities have detailed information on the international movements of our registered child sex offenders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EIt brings the overseas travel reporting requirements in line with those for domestic travel. That actually surprises a number of us in the House that arrived only in October\u2014and it will surprise some in the public as well\u2014that domestic travel had reporting requirements but international travel didn\u2019t for registered child sex offenders. So this is good news. The bill highlights, as has been said, New Zealand\u2019s commitment to safeguarding our children from sexual exploitation, both domestically and internationally, and addressing the risks associated with child sex offending more comprehensively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAs Mr O\u2019Connor said, often the offenders here do not look like or are not the people that we think they are, but they are registered and we need to monitor their travel because they are going into homes, potentially\u2014whether it\u2019s visiting family or friends in Australia; whether it\u2019s going for a short stay longer than 48 hours, but that needs to be known. So this, again, adds an extra layer of protection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ELooking at the actual requirements and the legislative remits of this bill, it would amend the Act to require registered child sex offenders to provide additional information to the police before travelling overseas for more than 48 hours. We did look at that 48-hour time frame\u2014that threshold\u2014and that is where we landed. A registered offender who intends to return to New Zealand would also need to report each address where they intend to stay while overseas, and the dates on which they intend to travel to and out of the country. Looking at the explanatory note in the bill itself: \u201CThis information would be required for each country that the offender intends to travel to and remain in for more than 48 hours.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo the National Party is united in our determination to give this extra tool to the New Zealand Police, to Customs, and to any authority that may be involved. I think we said not so long ago, in maybe it was the second reading, that \u201CKumbaya\u201D had broken out and that it looked like we were almost unanimous in this House with providing that extra tool for police. And why wouldn\u2019t we give all the tools that we could to the authorities to protect children as best as we can? As we often say in this House: even if it saves one child, it\u2019s all been worth it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo I hope\u2014I hope\u2014that the Green Party has caucused this since. And I hope that the Green Party, whose co-leader was the Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, come around and support this on the third reading. Because why wouldn\u2019t you? If they aren\u2019t, I think we all in the House, and the New Zealand public deserve to hear their articulation as to why not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo we come to the third reading, having exercised a lot of consideration and caution with this bill. We know that it\u2019s not the answer to everything, but it is a suite of tools that we now have that line up with our domestic reporting requirements for our registered child sex offenders that now go internationally. So that is the prudent thing to do, and, frankly, it\u2019s well overdue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo to the two Justice Committees, to the members of the public that submitted, to the various members on those two Justice Committees\u2014the first one chaired by Vanushi Walters; I want to acknowledge her today: someone I shared the campaign trail with, and her integrity on the Justice Committee was well known; also James Meager, who is often dubbed our in-house solicitor, from Otago University, no less\u2014no less. So I want to acknowledge those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EI want to also make the point for the Greens, again, that we really hope that they can come on board, and that the National Party are happy to support this child protection bill. But that is only a suite of pro-child, pro-family appropriations, policies, and plans that we have. Some of them you\u2019ll see tomorrow\u2014one more sleep, I think the finance Minister says. One more sleep where we, as a party and a coalition Government, are singularly focused on the family unit, on protecting children, and on improving their opportunities. We have walked into a situation where child poverty stats\u2014according to Stats NZ, released in January this year for the year June to 30 June 2023 had deteriorated\u2014had\u00A0deteriorated: material hardship was up; key indicators were up. Again, the protection of children\u2014we inherited a Government where 6,500 people were living in emergency housing, nearly half of them were children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022323e4d2dce1b41e0bc2ad8f033589084\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can we come back to the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a526b0b81394929af3a0042fde22024\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: So this is part of a suite\u2014this member\u2019s bill\u2014of a National Party programme where we are putting the family, the children at the centre of it. So we are very happy to support this, and we urge\u2014we urge\u2014the Green Party to consider joining the rest of the House and coming in behind, so we can say, hand on heart, in 2024, that we unanimously supported this and we unanimously did the best we can for our children in the future. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac81f5287996499d905447089e9b56d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac81f5287996499d905447089e9b56d7\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe. Kia ora koutou katoa. I rise today to speak as the Green Party\u2019s justice spokesperson and to outline our position, which has changed since the first and second readings of this bill. I will begin by talking about what we believe in, in regards to keeping our children safe, and then I\u2019ll talk a little bit about how we came to change our position on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EWe have always been extremely clear that we want to live in a world, and contribute to the leadership of this country, in a way that makes sure that children and everybody\u2014but particularly children; some of the most vulnerable people in our society\u2014can live free from sexual violence and harm. We know that we have to strengthen the work to prevent sexual violence from ever happening in the first place. That is why we are so proud to stand here as the party with the first ever Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence. People who have sexually violated children must be accountable for the heartbreaking and enduring harm that they inflict on people, on children, knowing the devastating trauma and harm that that causes for those children\u2019s entire lives. Offenders must be accountable and supported to stop their violent behaviour, and there must be restoration and reparation directly to victims and survivors and their needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EWe wish to state our position unequivocally, because the research and evidence spells out very clearly where the real levers for protecting our children are. And I would like to think that in the work that the previous Government did together on Te\u00A0Aorerekura, the first ever cross-Government strategy to eliminate family and sexual violence from our communities\u2014this work to prevent violence against children is in the heart of Te Aorerekura.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThe way that we came to change our position on this bill is because when the first and second readings of this bill happened and myself and my colleague Kahurangi Carter, who is the spokesperson for children, realised that we were the only party that was not supporting this bill, we had some serious questions and it didn\u2019t make sense to us. We felt that, as new MPs without the guidance of our previous MP Golriz Ghahraman, who was very staunch on her opposition against this bill, we had to revisit those reasons and ask ourselves whether that was the right decision to be made or not. We had lengthy decisions amongst our caucus around why we have the stance that we have and why we might want to change it. We felt strongly that supporting this bill is an important measure towards protecting the rights of children and the safety of children. So I want to mihi to you, Greg, for your work on this bill and the work that you have done throughout your career to protect children and families\u2014to live free from violence. I want to thank Erica Stanford as well for her work on improving aspects of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EWe said in the first reading of this bill, I believe, that if Minister Stanford\u2019s amendments could be incorporated into the bill, we would consider supporting the bill. We\u2019ve done that; we are supporting the bill now. It\u2019s great that we\u2019ve got unanimity across the House in taking this important step.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ESo the issue of ending violence against children has been a longstanding priority for us. As I said before, we are very, very proud of the work that we have achieved together on Te\u00A0Aorerekura. Even during the election last year\u2014I mean, across parties, whether it was Labour, National, or the Greens\u2014everybody agreed that Te Aorerekura is a blueprint for how we might deal with these really difficult issues like preventing violence in our communities. Te Aorerekura identifies and responds to the drivers of violence, requiring accountability from people using violence and supporting them to change, because that is a really important piece of the puzzle. It\u2019s not just identifying who has created harm and following their movements and actions to make sure that they don\u2019t cause further harm but it\u2019s actually getting at the root cause of that behaviour and trying to reduce that, because that is a service to the future, in that we\u2019re preventing future harm from occurring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ESo this bill amends the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) Act 2016 to require registered child sex offenders to provide additional information to police before travelling overseas. This information includes addresses of all places they will be staying\u2014all of these things have already been stated in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EI think the key thing that we really want to emphasise is that registers by themselves do little in and of themselves to reduce offending. We understand that there are steps that can be taken through this bill to, hopefully, add some more protection, especially now with the improvements that I mentioned before, thanks to Minister Stanford.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EWe also stand by the very important submission made by the Attorney-General on the impact that this bill has on human rights, and the Ministry of Justice, who were at pains to highlight that this legislation is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (NZBORA) and therefore risks a dangerous precedent. But that wouldn\u2019t be the first time that we had supported a bill that had some warnings against NZBORA. We do so because we believe in the rights of children to live free from violence. The Justice Committee\u2019s own report noted the statement of the Attorney-General that evidence is limited as to the effectiveness of sex offender registers in improving public safety. The report quotes that \u201Che\u201D\u2014the Attorney-General\u2014\u201Cconsidered that the intrusion on that right\u201D\u2014to benefit from lesser penalty where penalties change\u2014\u201Cwas not in due proportion to the importance of the objective of the bill and could not be demonstrably justified.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ENow, we do, in this House, weigh up public interest and public benefits whenever we have to consider breaching the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. So, in this case, we should all be clear that we are voting in public interest and\u2014for the Greens, with the improvements made to the bill since the first reading\u2014that we consider those reasons in the interests of the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ESo, in closing, I repeat: the Greens want a world where all children, here and across the world, live safe lives free from sexual violence and abuse. We know we must strengthen the work to prevent sexual violence from ever happening in the first place. We want to see justice for all victim/survivors of sexual violence and abuse, especially for children. People who have sexually violated children must be accountable for the heartbreaking and enduring harm that they have inflicted. Offenders must be accountable and supported to stop their violent behaviour, and there must be restoration and reparation directly to victim/survivors and their needs. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd22e38da5a74c60862e3b9ff6e1c0ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd22e38da5a74c60862e3b9ff6e1c0ae\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I do feel a \u201CKumbaya\u201D moment coming on, as Cameron Brewer would say. I want to thank the Greens and Tamatha Paul for her eloquent discussion about how the Greens have changed their position and will be supporting this bill. I think she touched on a lot of very important issues as we debate the child protection amendment bill, I\u2019m just going to call it, because there are a lot of words in the brackets, aren\u2019t there? But I think that was a really great demonstration of how this parliamentary process and going through the readings can actually allow considered debate, discussion, and actually allow parties to consider their position and change it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003ESo no surprise: ACT will be continuing to support Mr O\u2019Connor\u2019s excellent member\u2019s bill. Again, I think a lot of credit should go to him for diligently bringing this through two parliaments, two select committees, and working away to make necessary changes and updates and improvements. I\u2019ve got to say, I was lucky enough to be on the Justice Committee in this Parliament, and Mr O\u2019Connor would come along and make very constructive contributions. When he saw that there were some things that needed to be adjusted on the advice of officials or other submitters, he was very pragmatic and I think we worked through those issues in a very constructive way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to talk a bit about why I think this bill is important, because, really, it is extending New Zealand\u2019s duty of care to our children\u2014and we take that very seriously\u2014and actually extending that duty of care to other countries\u2019 children. I think that\u2019s a really important element. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EAgain, Ms Paul actually talked about the kind of horrendous acts of sexual violence against children in New Zealand, and they are some appalling statistics\u2014one in four girls and one in six boys are sexually abused before the age of 18. That is appalling and we must do more to address that. Again, I want to thank Ms Paul for saying that, actually, our criminal justice system isn\u2019t up to scratch. These are some of the issues that I know we\u2019re looking at in the Justice Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EThese assaults are really unacceptable, and what the register that we\u2019re now really extending overseas does is actually try to protect children by, obviously, registering offenders so we know where they are in our community in New Zealand. What we\u2019re doing with Mr O\u2019Connor\u2019s bill is now extending that duty to other countries and really trying to provide useful information that may prevent sexual crimes against children in other countries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EAlso, other countries have already got legislation such as this, so I think it\u2019s important that New Zealand does its piece to actually update our international obligations. So, again, in Australia, they have a similar law where each state and territory must report these details of offenders\u2014where they are, and if they travel outside of Australia, permission is needed, and, of course, those people are tracked, similar to our bill. And then, obviously, in the United States, there are different laws, but again, one of them is the international Megan\u2019s Law, which is to prevent child exploitation by, again, requiring notification as people who are sex offenders travel outside the US.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge Ms Paul\u2019s discussion around the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (BORA). I think that it is actually very important that we do acknowledge that the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act report does say that we are actually impinging on people\u2019s rights, but I think it\u2019s a really important process that we have in New Zealand where when a piece of legislation comes before our Parliament we get these New Zealand Bill of Rights Act reports, because it does allow us to see how a piece of legislation measures up against the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act but also allows this Parliament to balance the competing interests. That\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about here. There are the competing interests of ensuring that our children are safe and are protected from these paedophile offenders versus their rights. I think that\u2019s a really important discussion that we should have in the open.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI think having a BORA report like this available for each piece of legislation allows both this House and, obviously, the select committee, which considered this bill, to have that information. I think that\u2019s a really robust piece of our process that we can actually say, \u201CWell, where does it make sense to impinge on people\u2019s rights in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act because it\u2019s actually for the greater good and it\u2019s going to protect people?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EAgain, just briefly turning to the bill. Again, it has been mentioned\u2014this was obviously Mr O\u2019Connor\u2019s bill. We obviously had an Amendment Paper from Erica Stanford, which has been incorporated, making some useful changes around the inter-agency sharing of data and making sure that that was all linked up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI talked about some pragmatic changes in the select committee, one of those being around the commencement and just giving time for the police to make sure. Hopefully, when we pass this bill today in this House\u2014yet to be seen, but if that does transpire, it certainly will with the support of ACT; I\u2019m hopeful all the other parties are still on board\u2014just allowing the police that time to make sure they have the processes in place. That was a request that they made and that we heard at the select committee and helpfully incorporated, I hope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EThere were, obviously, some other issues around retrospectivity, which, again, are covered both in the commentary and in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act report. But, again, that had to be designed this way because we wanted to make sure we obviously captured all of the people on the current register in New Zealand and made sure that they were the ones that we were wanting to continue to track, regardless of when they were added in time, and that these obligations that we\u2019re looking to place on them would be placed on them, rather than some loophole because of the time in which they were placed on the register.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI want to finally just finish by making a few remarks about\u2014and, again, I know, Mr O\u2019Connor; I think this bill can do a few things. It can, obviously, protect children where the offender may be known to them, but we also have some appalling cases of child sex tourism where people are actually travelling outside of New Zealand\u2019s jurisdiction where they\u2019re closely monitored to maybe do illegal activities in other countries. Some stats suggest that around 2 million children around the world are victims of sex tourism every year. That\u2019s pretty appalling. In Asia alone, we have some really appalling statistics, including children as young as six, and younger, being subject to this predator behaviour. In fact, if you\u2019re wanting to watch a bit of an interesting documentary, the former host of To Catch a Predator, Chris Hansen, actually travelled to Cambodia and uncovered some of these horrific things that are happening in child sex tourism. His report is just really one of many that outlines this really hideous, disgusting, and vile trade that is taking place. Again, these acts against children are really appalling and we should do everything we can to stop them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EThis bill is a response to one MP seeing an issue, diligently fighting for it, being pragmatic, and actually extending New Zealand\u2019s care and protection for our own children to other countries\u2019 children. I really think that this is a great piece of legislation which does its small but important part to add to our laws that do protect our children. So, again, I want to thank Mr O\u2019Connor for bringing this to the last Parliament and to this Parliament, sticking with it, sticking with these speeches and with the process, and, I think, delivering something very useful. Again, ACT will be voting in favour of this. I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u002286d218dc26a547a2bd3fbf838d3d1274\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286d218dc26a547a2bd3fbf838d3d1274\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise today to take a call on this third reading of the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill. Alongside my colleagues, from now on I will also refer to it only as \u201Cthe bill\u201D. This bill seeks to address an area of public safety that is incredibly important\u2014of those of our most vulnerable in our society: our children\u2014and is but one of the many reasons that New Zealand First will continue to support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow, the register that is being spoken of is a record of a range of up-to-date personal information about registered child sex offenders who are living in our community. This is a tool which helps police and corrections staff to monitor these people who have already offended in the past, and it does so with the aim of preventing reoffending, and also, again, keeping our children and our most vulnerable safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EOne of the purposes of this bill is to enhance these monitoring measures and also to regulate the overseas travel of anyone who is on the register currently. This bill proposes amendments to existing legislation which requires registerable offenders to provide additional information to the authorities before they travel overseas for more than 48 hours. Now, one of the benefits of the bill as it is written is that it aligns with reporting requirements for domestic and overseas travel. This will ensure consistency and coherence in monitoring the movements of these offenders. It also enhances collaboration between the New Zealand Police and the Customs Service. This will enable them to leverage their networks and their resources to protect our children even more from any potential risk posed by the offenders who are travelling abroad, and this will strengthen international efforts in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow, New Zealand First, we support this bill for many, many reasons. One of them is because it upholds the principle of protecting the vulnerable in our society\u2014vulnerable individuals. It ensures public safety and it also ensures effective enforcement of the current law. Now, we believe that supporting this bill will also acknowledge the importance of addressing a very difficult issue that exists, and that is of child sexual exploitation. Now, this, sadly, does occur. By enabling the sharing and the coordination of the information between the relevant agencies, this will strengthen international efforts to combat child sex tourism. Now, as I\u2019ve mentioned before while speaking on this bill, I, however, feel it\u2019s important to comment again on it: whilst it\u2019s important to note that a significant proportion of child sex offenders do not reoffend, it is very important to note that many still do when they have been released from prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EDue to the nature of this type of offence, if, by chance, during a temporary lapse of reason, an offender reoffends and they commit yet another sexual offence, the consequences for the victim are by no means temporary. It causes emotional harm and physical harm. The suffering on the victim and on their families, for many, will continue for a lifetime. That\u2019s why it\u2019s so important that we continue to create awareness around this area to ensure we can do whatever we can to prevent it in the first place. If it was to happen, one offence could just be the beginning of another systemic family pattern of abuse. So anything that we can do to prevent that pattern from reoccurring is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ESo this bill, as I\u2019ve already mentioned, is going to be another measure to protect the most vulnerable who are in our society. Now, some may argue\u2014and I\u2019ve already mentioned this before\u2014\u201CBut what about the rights of the offender? They deserve a chance to rehabilitate and not live under a cloud of judgment.\u201D But what if, by having these additional requirements, it is, in fact, a deterrent for them that makes them think twice during a temporary lapse of reason? It may just be the one thing that makes them go, \u201CNo.\u201D As I\u2019ve mentioned, due to the nature of the offence, any decision that is made in a split second can lead to irreversible consequences for both the victim and the offender. So it is possible, I believe, that these extra measures provided for in this bill could be the deterrent that they need to finally take responsibility for their actions and take ownership of their life which they have a second chance at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ESo, in summary\u2014I won\u2019t speak for too much longer\u2014in New Zealand First we so boldly believe in public safety. It\u2019s a very important part of our principles, and especially the safety of our children, the most vulnerable in our society, the defenceless, and we do believe that it does outweigh the privacy or the equal protection of the sex offender. So that\u2019s why it is very important for us to continue to support this bill, and we believe that it will be received very well and we commend it to the House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002202a5115682034f268bb5c6838d969dc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202a5115682034f268bb5c6838d969dc4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call Mariameno Kapa-Kingi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00227ab75b864bcd4823906f3a0266fac0fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ab75b864bcd4823906f3a0266fac0fc\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. I just want to share a little bit here around my own experience in this space. For a number of years, I was part of a specialist team that would interview children who were survivors of sexual assault and abuse. I was a counsellor in this work, as well, and a care and protection social worker, so I know stuff about this which I wish I never knew. Then I set about to teach children how to protect themselves in schools across the Eastern Bay of Plenty. We did a lot of work to educate\u2014which is always a tricky matter, actually, for many, but mostly for our children, because they are the most vulnerable, but, in fact, if we give them the right tools in the right way, they get to understand how to protect themselves, actually. So I just want to make those comments\u2014including a care and protection coordinator in a family group conference setting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ESadly, many more victims and survivors will never tell. They will not tell, terribly, because the trauma that is again rolled out over and upon them is, sadly, even worse than their\u2014I mean, this might be a funny thing to say or a terrible thing to say, but many of them live and die with that trauma. So, yeah, I think we do have to get better at how we help and support our wh\u0101nau to tell their story. The amendments to this bill will never undo the harm that has already transpired, and it will not heal our already affected tamariki, but it will work to protect. So mihi atu ki a koe, e Greg, n\u0101 t\u014D kaha ki te mahi i ng\u0101 mahi ki t\u0113nei w\u0101hi nei. [So I salute you, Greg, your indefatigable efforts to do the necessary work here at this place.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe protection through the prevention of further harm to tamariki that may occur at the expense of already registered offenders who travel outside of Aotearoa\u2014this I absolutely support, and so do we as the party: the protection of tamariki and their oranga. Prevention and protection are our key drivers, especially in the context of our mokopuna.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ETamariki have, in these last weeks, sent a discourse in Parliament, as they do today, often illuminating colonial regimes and colour-blind theories masked under the term \u201Cdemocracy\u201D. This very discourse brought forth in the third reading of the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill requires the recognition of our tamariki, in partnership with those outside of our shores. When we are willing to protect others, we must also be willing to protect ourselves and our own mokopuna. It is disappointing that the Government protection is only offered when so-called colour-blind theories are permitted under ill-advised definitions of \u201Cdemocracy\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EI intend to call out this Government on their inconsistencies when it comes to the care of tamariki. I do this as it is tamariki M\u0101ori who disproportionately suffer from this Government\u2019s failings. The current attempt to remove section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act is yet another example of this. So how can we provide better care and protection of tamariki overseas and not do the same of our own? Perhaps it is the term \u201CM\u0101ori\u201D that Government are desensitised too. Should I say the \u201Cindigenous children of this country\u201D? Would it resonate better with this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003ETamariki M\u0101ori, who make up near 70 percent of those in State care, are also victim to sexual crime and to abuse in care. What protection do they now have without the likes of section 7AA, without a Government who are willing to put protective legislation in place for others but not our own? Inconsistent care and protection of tamariki in and beyond this country are highlighted in this discussion today. [Bell rung] And there we go. I have mentioned prevention in this k\u014Drero, but it feels almost reckless to use such a term in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThis bill should inspire how prevention may present itself in other pieces of legislation and law that directly impact our tamariki. Better care and protection of our tamariki may then be realistic when given attention to prevent the real suffering endured here in Aotearoa. I want to make this discussion with my opening comments to say: I get this take [topic], I understand it deeply\u2014and more than most, probably; probably similar to Greg\u2014and I\u2019m talking to this and supporting it but saying: what about our mokopuna M\u0101ori and what about 7AA? In that context, it\u2019s screwing it up majorly, right? I commend your mahi and this take to the House. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022 data-id=\u00220f6c8dbe3b0646628af7e404299f31fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f6c8dbe3b0646628af7e404299f31fc\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you. Today, we are all here because we stand united in our pursuit of protection of children in Aotearoa and across the world, and we have to hold on to that unity and everything that unites us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe Greens know that our tamariki are our taonga. They are the future of our Aotearoa, and we must use all the knowledge and tools we have to protect our tamariki. We know that there is so much more that our Government can do, and must do, to protect children than just this bill. And, of course, all my learned colleagues here are invested and committed to Te Aorerekura\u2014the all-Government, prevention-focused, Tiriti-centred, strength-based, community-led, and whole-wh\u0101nau embedded strategy to eliminate violence over the next couple of generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EAgain, we can hold on to the unity that everybody across Government believes in, Te Aorerekura, and all of the communities, all of the agencies, all of the experts who came together and collaborated to make this incredible document that will guide us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EThe Green Party remains strongly invested in that enduring work to ensure that children are safe. Now, before the committee of the whole House, we were informed that member Erica Stanford\u2019s amendment to strengthen the bill and provide clear improvements to the bill were accepted. We were really happy to hear about this because at the Greens, we welcome robust and considered debate when we\u2019re making decisions, and our caucus was able to take those amendments and consider the arguments to change our position, which does leave our House united today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EEverybody in this Chamber wants to protect children from any kind of harm. With these amendments, which clearly lay out how this bill will operate and be effective\u2014basically, allowing for more information sharing between Customs and Police\u2014adds the substance needed for us to support the bill. The Police will now tell Customs when a child sex offender is travelling, and Customs can use the resources and tools at their disposal to alert the other country or to monitor the offender closely. This makes the bill more effective at achieving its intent to reduce harm and prevent the horror of child sex tourism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003EMy colleague and I listened closely to the member\u2019s answers in committee of the whole House and heard arguments from across the House. Our caucus agreed to change our position to support, and we are satisfied with these amendments and we will be supporting this bill. In committee of the whole House, the member provided more information, particularly around rehabilitation. We know rehabilitation is a vital part of protecting children and ensuring members of society are functioning, and we have to believe that people can improve. We have to believe that people can get better, that they can become better versions of themselves and then make the world a better place. The Greens will always advocate to prevent violence and keep children safe. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9dffb0d6cca4483a6eef92f314fcd2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9dffb0d6cca4483a6eef92f314fcd2e\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019d like to thank the House for the opportunity to say a few words in support of this bill, the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) (Overseas Travel Reporting) Amendment Bill, in its third reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EThis amendment bill is a member\u2019s bill. Just for the benefit of friends listening in and my darling husband in the gallery, a member\u2019s bill is a bill that is introduced by a non-Minister and, essentially, deals with a matter of public policy. In this instance, this bill is in the name of Mr Greg O\u2019Connor, the member of Parliament for \u014Ch\u0101riu. This member\u2019s bill, I believe, is a really good example of what often is the case with members\u2019 bills, where they\u00A0identify an aspect of an established law that is in need of amending for reasons that can cover a large range of scenarios. In this instance, the ultimate goal of this amendment bill is to protect children globally from sex offenders by making our own local laws more\u00A0stringent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EWhat a noble goal this is, where we acknowledge, as lawmakers, that the responsibility to protect children\u2014pure, beautiful, innocent children\u2014is one that is not confined to the parameters of our country, but, rather, transcends borders and jurisdictions. I thank the member in charge of this bill, Mr Greg O\u2019Connor, and I also thank the Hon Erica Stanford, if I may, in her absence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cfdfd7611b84e42908f14e6ab4a2e43\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t refer to her absence, but you can thank her. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283c45145282a455693ef7772de82afaa\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, is that how I should\u2014I had been meaning to look that up. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I thank the Hon Erica Stanford for having the courage and the insights and the foresight but also the passion to initiate the changes needed to achieve this goal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sure many of us in the House are blessed with nieces and nephews, and I remember when my first niece was born, in 2008. I was allowed to go into the nursery where she was lying there, and I get a little bit moved when I think of that memory because I looked at her and I marvelled at her beauty. Then, not long after I had acknowledged that this is my niece and that I actually had a niece, I just thought that if anyone ever tries to do anything like this sort of sexual violation against her\u2014yeah, I don\u2019t know what person I\u2019d become. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EThat moment really solidified for me how important it is to protect children from sexual violation, and this is why I feel extremely strongly about this amendment bill that\u2019s before the House today. Indeed, I reflect on times when I\u2019m with my nieces and nephews, and it\u2019s not uncommon that we\u2019ll be in a very happy situation, laughing\u2014with me being one of their favourite aunties\u2014but then, my mind drifts again to ask how do I protect them from sexual offenders. So thank you, Mr O\u2019Connor and Erica Stanford, for bringing this amendment to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EA recap: this bill seeks to amend the principal Act, the Child Protection (Child Sex Offender Government Agency Registration) Act\u2014which is the long name that I just mentioned earlier\u2014and the proposed amendment is, essentially, centred around requirements to make child sex offenders provide additional and specific information to the police 48 hours before travelling for overseas travel that is for more than 48 hours. The current situation we are focusing on is in a few sections of the Act here. Section 21 requires, currently\u2014without the amendments\u2014that registered sex offenders advise the registrar of their travel plans if they are travelling overseas for more than 48 hours, with the dates that they are leaving and returning, but not the name of the country of destination, and section 22 requires that registered sex offenders advise the registrar if the date of their return to New Zealand changes while they\u2019re overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EThe status quo covers the basics in overseas travel reporting, but it does not go anywhere near as far enough in ensuring that police have extensive details of the travel plans of the registered sex offender. So this amendment bill, when passed\u2014and I really would love to acknowledge our Green colleagues in the House for the change of heart that they\u2019ve had, and I thank them for sharing the process of that thought\u2014will mandate a number of specific requirements. One is that for each address at which the offender intends to stay while overseas, they must provide those details. They must also provide the date on which the offender intends to travel to the country and the date on which the offender intends to travel out of that aforementioned country, and where the offender doesn\u2019t intend to return to New Zealand, the name of the country where the offender intends to reside must also be disclosed. The passport number, the place of issue, the date of expiry of each valid passport held by the offender\u2014specific and extensive details. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EThis bill will also amend section 43 of the principal Act to allow for information sharing, as we heard earlier, between Government agencies in the interests of public safety so that the whereabouts of the offender can be monitored and the personal information given by the offender can be verified. The risk that the offender may commit further sexual offences against children can in this way be better managed, and the risks to public safety are also better managed. Again, I would like to stress that these changes are deliberate and specific. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003ENow, in the few minutes that I have left, I would also like to touch upon a point of contention with regard to this amendment bill, and throughout the course of the various stages of this amendment bill, the debates and the consideration\u2014and I\u2019ve been privileged to be part of these stages as one of the members of the Justice Committee. Here, I\u2019d like to acknowledge our chair, my colleague and my friend James Meager, who is, I believe, doing an exceptional job as chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003ESo, in these various stages, we\u2019ve heard the cry of some that oppose this bill because it, apparently, infringes on the human rights of registered sex offenders, of sex predators. These arguments have been based around the section 7 report of the Attorney-General to the Justice Committee commenting that this bill appears to be inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act on several fronts\u2014namely, these fronts: the right of an offender to benefit from the lesser penalty where penalties change, and the right to freedom from double jeopardy and retrospectivity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003ENow, these considerations were discussed at length and they have been discussed at length, we learnt, by successive Justice Committees, and, indeed, I have thought about them at length because human rights are very important and I think they should be important to every single person that is part of this great House. But, time and time again, I came to the same conclusion that our Justice Committee also reached in the select committee report on the amendment bill, and that is\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cadditional reporting requirements that the bill proposes do not significantly increase the limitations placed on individuals who are subject to registration.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI tautoko this and I agree with this wholeheartedly, and, as I said, that\u2019s the conclusion I came to, time and time again, because, as mentioned by many a great speaker before me, we need to do everything we can to protect children. I wish we could do more\u2014absolutely. But this is one step in protecting our children from the abhorrent nature of sexual violation. Of the sexual abuse that takes place in New Zealand, 90 percent is perpetrated by people that are known to the victim. This amendment bill is needed, especially where registered sex offenders are travelling under the ostensible guise of\u2014a big example\u2014visiting family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003ESexual abuse, as I mentioned in my former speech, is a different level of abhorrence, and I\u2019m so quietly pleased that we\u2019ve come together as a House to commend this bill. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002251bd7b9a2b4b4cfbaf94e9dc63fd6238\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251bd7b9a2b4b4cfbaf94e9dc63fd6238\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to speak on this bill. My congratulations to the member for both getting this bill drawn and to this late stage in the House. I know that he would want me to thank everyone who\u2019s worked on this bill, but especially the officials. I think he might have been a bit flustered because he was so busy discharging other duties and rushing to his seat, that it might have slipped his mind, so I\u2019m passing on that message from Greg O\u2019Connor that he\u2019s very grateful, as am I and all of the committee members, for the diligence and assistance of officials advising us on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI do, really, only want to touch on one aspect, because other speakers have very articulately gone over the nature of the bill and exactly what it does, and its objectives of extending the register to the movements of child sex offenders to overseas travel and the details of that. But I do want to just touch on the human rights aspect, because I do think this House should absolutely pause when the Attorney-General says, \u201CThe proposed measure, in my independent and considered opinion, is not a justified limitation on human rights.\u201D, and it should be only with the utmost gravity that this House puts that to one side and adopts that measure anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAs the member who just spoke, Rima Nakhle, noted, the key consideration there was the suggestion that for a person who has been convicted and sentenced, a harsher sentence is now being imposed, but because there is now this additional measure that didn\u2019t exist when the crime was committed, I think that there is something we need to examine there. One of the observations or one of the statements or reasons of the Attorney-General in the report was that there is actually modest evidence of a strong link between prevention of child sex offending and this register, and I think that\u2019s a gap that we need to fill. We should only infringe on liberties where there\u2019s evidence that we\u2019re doing the right thing. I understand that Waikato University is doing work on that; I look forward to seeing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut, I guess, the reason I am happy to see this bill progress is because I do believe it will prevent harm. But I think we need to carefully examine\u2014and I know I\u2019m disagreeing with the Supreme Court on this, and I don\u2019t do that lightly. The Supreme Court did find in, I think it\u2019s, \u201CD\u201D v Attorney-General, that the child sex offender is part of a punishment or a penal regime. I think we need to kind of reframe what goes on in the Corrections framework, because some of what Corrections do is punishment. It\u2019s that kind of marking out conduct as entirely unacceptable and imposing things like imprisonment or home detention or whatever to say, \u201CThat\u2019s so bad, we\u2019re going to make your life more uncomfortable.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ECertainly the purpose of this register is not punitive; whatever the court sentenced, that has happened. This is to protect children from people, and that\u2019s the primary objective, but also to put a framework around offenders and their behaviour\u2014in a sense, protect them from themselves. I think we need to recognise that as abhorrent as the historic offending is, what we\u2019re really doing here is saying, \u201CWe want to not have future victims.\u201D It\u2019s not about saying, \u201CBecause you were a bad person, we\u2019re going to make your life more uncomfortable.\u201D In fact, I hope the police make this as easy and seamless as possible, so that it is complied with absolutely by child sex offenders who then recognise that their movements are monitored in some degree, and don\u2019t put themselves in situations where other people are at risk. The outcome of that is that there will be fewer victims of child sex offending\u2014fewer children who are victims of sexual offending. That\u2019s a good thing. That\u2019s not part of a punitive regime; that\u2019s part of a careful community that protects its children, and also, at the same time, assists people with problems to not offend. I think that\u2019s how we need to reframe some of what we\u2019re doing in Corrections, is to say that there\u2019s always going to be a punishment aspect, but let\u2019s not conflate punishment with protection and improvement of everyone\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThat is why I am very happy to support this bill. I did want to talk about the rights issue because I certainly didn\u2019t want it to be glossed over, and I wanted to make it absolutely clear that the Attorney-General\u2019s view is not lightly disregarded but it was very carefully thought about at committee and, of course, I\u2019m sure it will be considered by other members in this House as well. Kia ora, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u002293f520e38d714604bd4f95a08efbe2ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293f520e38d714604bd4f95a08efbe2ec\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. We are in a situation where sex offending against children is rampant, it is global, and it takes very many forms, from organised and sophisticated large-scale planned offending, which surely feeds into individual offending, to offenders who are opportunistic because they find themselves in close proximity to their victims for some reason, maybe by authority or by relationship, being a family member or being in a relationship with a family member in charge of children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EIt is fitting that the member across the House Greg O\u2019Connor, having been in law enforcement himself and having had a lot of experience dealing with situations like this, is the member who brings this amendment bill into the House. Surely, he would have seen the very situations where offenders would have disappeared into the darkness when they moved to travel overseas. This gap is what has been identified\u2014surely through experience and the knowledge of what happens in this space of child sex offending. This is the very gap that this bill seeks to close down: that when offenders travel overseas, they walk into the darkness and become invisible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ESo the specific requirements of the amendment bill aim to keep registered offenders in the light, and visible. There are mainly three steps. Additional information\u2014when offenders intending to return to New Zealand leave the country, they must report where they\u2019re going, where they will be living, and when they will be coming back or departing from the country that they are headed to. Offenders must also provide information if they do not intend to return to New Zealand, where they will be staying. The information that offenders carry that help identify them will need to be provided\u2014the passport, the addresses, the full names, place of issue, expiry\u2014so their identities are able to be kept in the light.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EIt is a great advantage to offenders that after they leave, they are not able to be followed or sought, and that brings opportunities for them to reoffend. Child sex offending is known to be very difficult to reform, and with the opportunity of being in proximity to someone else, particularly in cases\u2014which the member across the House Greg O\u2019Connor has identified\u2014where family travel to be with family overseas, then the opportunity for offending continues. In New Zealand, we want to be able to show our determined effort to prevent child sex offending and to put in place protection measures that we can in this country that will help other countries prevent harm as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003ESo the bill seeks to ensure that we in New Zealand demonstrate our determination to protect children from sexual exploitation. By highlighting this move to reach out and be ready to provide information that is critical to protecting other children overseas, it establishes our clear intent to collaborate and cooperate with overseas jurisdictions to prevent offenders from walking into the darkness and disappearing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EWith this bill, we also demonstrate our dedication to democracy and providing that extra protection that our day and time allows us to provide\u2014so innovation and smart use of information and technology, which may not have been available in former times. The bill tracks offenders\u2019 movements in ways that we could not have done before. Armed with this new technology and data sharing, we want to show the world that we are determined to stop or to make it more difficult for offenders to keep on offending in other jurisdictions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EWe also show the world that we are very concerned about our children and the safety of other children in the world. The strict reporting requirement of the bill shows that we hold zero tolerance on child exploitation, and that we are prepared to assist other law enforcement in other countries where we know our registered child sex offenders may be travelling to. So it is essential and natural for us to be concerned about others. Again, the hideousness of the possibility of a child sex offender who has offended against children in his proximity, possibly within his family, travelling overseas to be with other family members is a frightful concept that we must exert every effort to ensure that we do not allow this to progress as easily as it could have in the past, without the smart data and technology that we can use in terms of information sharing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003EWith the awareness that this law change could impinge on human rights of registered sex offenders in terms of exposing them to more punishment, there have been steps proposed and accepted by the Justice Committee to ensure that all registered offenders are aware that this bill is going to happen. So there will be a delayed commencement time to allow police to fully inform everyone affected by this change. By allowing the bill to explicitly retroactively affect all registered offenders, there can be no one staying in the darkness. We commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec4528c850df4888bff4a80591c40f4b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This call is a split call\u2014Dr Tracey McLellan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00223f2019aa47fd4f9ea783c245f24c87a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f2019aa47fd4f9ea783c245f24c87a7\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think the House is relatively in tune tonight, and all of the previous contributions have clearly outlined what this bill does. So I\u2019m not going to take my full allocation\u2014I think it would be quite fitting and a nice gesture for this bill to pass its third reading before we hit the dinner break. So in acknowledgment of that, can I just say a couple of quick remarks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI too, like many other people, would like to acknowledge Greg O\u2019Connor\u2014affectionately known as \u201CGreg O\u201D\u2014who has done a lot of work to ensure that this bill has been shepherded with very much care through this process. As has been said, it\u2019s only a small change, but it is definitely impactful and that is not to be overlooked. I think that\u2019s testament to the breadth of knowledge that the member who has shepherded this bill through has via his professional life, and the acumen to recognise when something small can be changed that makes an impactful difference and can actually, therefore, prevent harm. So I heard Mr O\u2019Connor mention earlier on that this is the first member\u2019s bill to pass through the 54th Parliament. So I\u2019d like to acknowledge again the work that he\u2019s done to ensure that that has happened, also the submitters, the officials, and the two Justice Committees who have done the work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI think one of the enduring pieces of contributions that were made tonight was a reminder to us that sex offenders almost exclusively, but certainly to a high proportion, are known. That\u2019s not the \u201Cstranger danger\u201D that we may have grown up with a couple of decades ago. It\u2019s something that, when we acknowledge that, we can make those small changes and we can do something that is meaningful and prevents harm. So I have no hesitation in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4f2daa81a5844d2ba878575f350c978\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4f2daa81a5844d2ba878575f350c978\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a privilege to rise to speak on this bill, and I\u2019d like to commend Greg O\u2019Connor and the Hon Erica Stanford for the work they\u2019ve done in getting this bill to the House to date and to the stage that we have. I listened with a great interest to Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s contribution to this bill. Given his background in law enforcement, he obviously brought a lot of knowledge and experience to the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ETo me, it\u2019s also great to see the level of unity across the House on this occasion. It\u2019s relatively rare that we get everybody agreeing, and it\u2019s just great to see that the Greens have reconsidered their position and have rejoined and made it unanimous. This helps send a strong message that New Zealand takes its responsibilities in terms of child sex offenders very seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I don\u2019t think has been touched on quite as much tonight has been the whole aspect of the victims in these horrible crimes, because this is one of the things we\u2019re trying to prevent: more victims. I know somebody who, in their younger years, was affected by an offender. To this date it still effects them; it impacts them regularly. You see it when they bring it up and you see it in things and the way they deal with issues and the way they deal with life. So anything we can do\u2014which is what this bill helps to do\u2014to help prevent any further sex offending is, I think, to be taken; it would be really well accepted and I think it\u2019s a really good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003ESo, I think, having made that point and saying what a great thing it is that we do this\u2014[Refers to notes] getting lots of instruction here\u2014and the importance of getting this right so that we have people when they travel, we know where they are and where they\u2019re going is really important. With that, then, I\u2019d like to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022f44ef2cbb3ad4d2d8cc4166fe963ec21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f44ef2cbb3ad4d2d8cc4166fe963ec21\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will also take a short call because I would like my friend Greg O\u2019Connor\u2019s bill to go through tonight. What I would like to do is acknowledge that those stories that have come up from people in the House who\u2019ve had a direct and personal connection with this issue will be the tip of the iceberg. This is a significant issue that, basically, takes away many children\u2019s childhoods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EIt is really nice in this bill to see and acknowledge that that is not something that we can \u201Cother\u201D when it comes to places like Thailand and all the places that people go to use children in this way. So I am extremely pleased to see this. I\u2019ve recently spent a journey with Greg\u2014a bus journey\u2014and it\u2019s always interesting, but it\u2019s also rather traumatic because you hear many a story of the real life of somebody who has earned the right to be here through doing very hard work and actually having to face the reality of evil. It is something that we can never forget about. We might want to, but we cannot forget about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I thank him for putting such a pragmatic bill to this House that will, hopefully, help some of the children that are in the world. It will not be the only step that we have to take. I would love to see, in the Budget tomorrow, some money go into making our net safer for our children, and stopping a lot of the stuff that comes into New Zealand by putting money into the safety of our net\u2014and let\u2019s see whether it happens; it\u2019s the kind of thing that should be cross-party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI thank the Greens for coming around on this bill and supporting it. I think it\u2019s very significant that we are doing this in a way that is united across this House. It shows that we take the impact on children of this kind of behaviour extremely seriously, and it\u2019s been a sober and interesting debate. I thank you all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u002253c5a81e46504e28a23630157947e43e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253c5a81e46504e28a23630157947e43e\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, it appears that the only thing standing between this bill passing before the dinner break and putting Mr O\u2019Connor through an hour and a half of the most heightened tension we\u2019ve seen all day will be how long I take in my speech. So in the interests of collegiality and \u201CKumbaya\u201D and the avoidance of future terrifying bus trips with Greg O\u2019Connor\u2014through M\u0101kara or \u014Ch\u0101riu, wherever we\u2019re going\u2014I will keep my contribution relatively targeted and timely so that Greg O\u2019Connor can celebrate what is a very, very good bill and an excellent effort by the member to progress it through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI had a whole list of acknowledgments here for you, Mr O\u2019Connor, but I wanted to say that I think the way you turned up to our select committee and the way you contributed, and your knowledge in this area is just exceptional. I\u2019m not sure if you can refer to the absence of yourself, but I was at one of my select committees noting the start of the debate in the third reading, and I noted that Mr O\u2019Connor outlaid his history and his experience in this area and the fact that he had established child sex abuse teams in Masterton as part of his career and that he has one of the most lengthy and storied histories in this area. So it\u2019s only appropriate that it falls to a member like him to not only bring this bill before the House and see it pass through but also to do it in a way where he has articulated a purpose of the bill\u2014which is to protect children\u2014and advocate for that purpose so strongly that he has convinced other members across the House to change their position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the members of the Green Party\u2014Tamatha Paul and Kahurangi Carter\u2014for their decision to listen to the submissions, to hear the arguments, to review the evidence, and to balance that against the strongly held views of their party and their principles, and to, I guess, come to the conclusion that, on balance, it is a bill worth supporting. So that\u2019s a testament to the member and a testament to how the select committee process and how Parliament can work and how we can tease it out in the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ECan I also just acknowledge the work of the Justice Committee. We are, of course, known as the \u201Cbusy and effective Justice Committee\u201D, and it\u2019s nice to see one of our bills out of the room on to the floor of the House and, hopefully, passed into law. One down; only about 11 to go. So, Greg O\u2019Connor, if you\u2019re ever looking for some spare time to fill on a Thursday, you\u2019re more than welcome to join us again for one of the many pieces of legislation we\u2019ll be debating over the next 2\u00BD years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ELook, I just wanted to touch on a couple of other contributions by members in the time we\u2019ve got remaining\u2014mainly the contribution by Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, who talked about her own history in this area. I want to reflect on some of the work that I\u2019ve done as counsel in the royal commission into abuse, and some of the horrific stories that I\u2019ve been privy to, and I\u2019ve heard about child abuse\u2014and the realisation that it is not, as we\u2019ve been taught growing up, \u201Cstranger danger\u201D; it is often those that we know and we love who are the ones who are committing abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThat is what this bill is designed to do: it is designed to make sure that those travelling overseas\u2014we are aware of where they\u2019re going and we are aware of the situation they\u2019re putting themselves into and that we are putting the interests of the children in those potential locations first. So it\u2019s a very good day for Mr O\u2019Connor; it\u2019s a very good day for the people of \u014Ch\u0101riu, who get to see their member pass a bill into law; but it\u2019s also a very good day for the children of New Zealand, who can add one small but significant protection to the list of protections that we provide in our statute book.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo, saying that, I will very happily, on behalf of the National Party, and, if I can say, on behalf of the Justice Committee, commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002257defd6765044666a6c8fa6cc20272f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257defd6765044666a6c8fa6cc20272f2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is now suspended for the dinner break. The committee will resume after the dinner break. Sorry, I forgot to call on members\u2019 order of the day No. 2. That will be the committee stage after the dinner break. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.59 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c81ecd3c8e614b76987183f6f17a6927\u0022\u003ESale and Supply of Alcohol (Winery Cellar Door Tasting) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b29bd841ca0547e6b070bcf185a5265f\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e9268b5b4312450bac53aaa4c448e2f0\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00227f3c92f679524508ba0291bd58478de4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f3c92f679524508ba0291bd58478de4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Winery Cellar Door Tasting) Amendment Bill. The Business Committee has determined that the powers of this committee be extended to consider out-of-scope amendments in Amendment Papers 31 and 32 in the name of the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Members will be aware that personal votes will be taken on substantive questions such as votes on amendments or on the question that a part stand part. However, in accordance with Speakers\u2019 ruling 73/4, party votes will be taken for votes on procedural matters such as closure motions. We start with clause 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e03d5690651f48269eafba4bdc2a90a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e03d5690651f48269eafba4bdc2a90a8\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Senior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chair. I seek leave for all provisions to be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022aacede606153411c8b1a944d914b8b58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aacede606153411c8b1a944d914b8b58\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none. The question is that clauses 1 to 9 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00229b0bf1d5cb5a42e682c34b2e57d79243\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b0bf1d5cb5a42e682c34b2e57d79243\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you, members. This bill is an important bill for the wine industry. It will fix a longstanding anomaly in the law and make it much easier for wineries to operate their cellar doors by enabling wineries to hold an on-licence and an off-licence together. That can be done in some cases, but it\u2019s quite difficult, and this bill makes it much easier to achieve and will make it more equal across the whole country so that it\u2019s very clear how this can operate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI want to point out something about licence combinations, which I\u2019ve just alluded to, because there has been a lot of different interpretations around the country. So I want to get it on the record what this is going to do. There is a technical anomaly in the Act, as I\u2019ve mentioned, meaning that some wineries have to apply for a second, different type of licence through a separate legal entity in order to charge for tastings. This creates additional costs and administrative burden. This bill allows winery cellar doors to hold an on-licence and an off-licence simultaneously. It means that a winery cellar door will be able to share the same licensed footprint as a restaurant or a cafe. In doing so, the bill grants winery cellar doors the same exemption that is already available to hotels and taverns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019m quite happy to take questions on this matter. I do thank the members who have supported this bill to this stage and thank them for their contributions, and I\u2019d also like to thank those that contributed through the select committee process to get the bill in the shape that we have it in today. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022e539d3e76cb4446abe14b650fe139346\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e539d3e76cb4446abe14b650fe139346\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The member in the chair, Stuart Smith, will be aware that I have a number of Amendment Papers, which are aimed at addressing some of what I see as the anomalies or shortcomings in the legislation. I thought I\u2019d just start, if I may, with Amendment Paper 30, and that\u2019s really about what a winery cellar door is. I\u2019m concerned that the bill, as it sits on the Table, enables a so-called winery cellar door to, in fact, be a great distance from where the wine is produced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m aware that there\u2019s the requirement that a licensing officer has to have the opinion that it is a winery cellar door, but \u201Cwinery cellar door\u201D\u2014that must be within the legislation. As amended by this bill, a \u201Cwinery cellar door means retail premises\u201D\u2014this is in clause 4 of the bill\u2014\u201Coperated by a person for the purposes of selling grape wine (as defined in section 58(3)) that is made by or on behalf of that person\u2014(a) [either] on those premises;\u201D\u2014that\u2019s a real winery cellar door\u2014\u201Cor (b) from produce harvested from land occupied by that person\u201D. So it could be that the grapes are grown in Waipara, in the Canterbury region\u2014fantastic wine comes from there\u2014but the cellar door could be in Blenheim or Christchurch. It could be a great distance away, because that\u2019s what a \u201Cwinery cellar door\u201D means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI accept that you could have your vineyard in Omihi, just outside of Waipara, and then your cellar door in the township 5 or 6 kilometres away; that kind of works, I understand. It\u2019s within what\u2019s expected\u2014it\u2019s in the wine region. But certainly not 50, 60, 100, 500 kilometres away. My Amendment Paper 30 adds to that, and says that \u201Cthe retail premises are located no more than 10 kilometres from where the main ingredients were grown or the wine was manufactured\u201D. It makes it\u2014and the member in the chair will remind us\u2014it attaches the cellar door to the geographical region from which the wine in this case was produced. I\u2019m wondering if the member will support that, and, if not, can he\u2014because I understand that in his view, the cellar door must be close to the vineyard, but that\u2019s not how I read the legislation. If he can work through how I\u2019ve got that wrong, then my Amendment Paper is redundant, but I honestly don\u2019t see how that could possibly be the case\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6befa252e444332a8bfd14cbae68b64\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: What, that you couldn\u2019t be wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241143888fb504c9080aa11d123520bc9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in which case, will he\u2014I can\u2019t see how he could work through it in a way that doesn\u2019t lead to that conclusion, Mr Doocey. Me being wrong\u2014it\u2019s possible. Hasn\u2019t happened so far, but it\u2019s possible! But, frivolity aside, you know, I understand the member\u2019s intention, but I honestly don\u2019t think the legislation\u2019s quite got there. If I\u2019m wrong in his intention or I\u2019m wrong in the interpretation, I\u2019d be keen to hear it. Otherwise, will he support that Amendment Paper?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002225e8deab469a4fdf915a0abca5386acd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225e8deab469a4fdf915a0abca5386acd\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have got a couple of things I want to work through, but I\u2019ll just focus on one of them at the moment because it\u2019s connected to the one raised by the Hon Duncan Webb, and that is my amendment on the floor which is at clause 4 and it\u2019s the definition of cellar door from produce harvested from the land on which the retail premises is situated. So it\u2019s a very similar problem that I\u2019m seeing. You need to have very much a connection with the produce and the land on which the retail premises is situated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI actually remember as a teenager walking down Sandringham Road, which was dry at the time but it had these old-fashioned shop fronts where they just sold wine that was a little bit like tar. I think it was just me and my friends buying that wine. I\u2019m not sure it was the best thing for \u201CBrand New Zealand\u201D, but that was going on. It certainly wasn\u2019t produced at the back of the Sandringham shop, but it was a kind of glitch in the system. It would be very nice if you would not glitch the system in this way, and so I\u2019d like your response about that connection between the growing\u2014I can see what you\u2019re trying to do; I can see you\u2019re trying to support your region. But that would provide that kind of security of connection and quality of the produce, presumably, that means it\u2019s not being sold in the Sandringham shops next to the dairy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EAlso, I might actually just take the opportunity to talk through the second one of the amendments that I put. This is quite a significant difference, and it is really in support of the manufacturers of other products where they are producing the products on site, and that is really about the beer manufacturers that are out there. Now, I\u2019ve got that manufacturing and small-business portfolio. It\u2019s an industry where we\u2019ve seen the big brewers go sliding down and the struggling of small, amazing new industries in this area of really boutique breweries. I cannot see why we would distinguish and keep this for those people who are in small business. They\u2019re manufacturing product of this kind in a region like Blenheim, and not do that for the people of Morningside, who actually do have incredible breweries going, and they are there, and they are in exactly the same position. That\u2019s like-for-like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI guess I see that as avoiding what we used to call pork-barrel politics. We don\u2019t just look after our own region. We take the logical position. We\u2019re representatives of all New Zealanders and we need to make sure we\u2019re looking after New Zealanders. So I\u2019d like to know why it is that there has been this distinction between the two, and why we wouldn\u2019t go the whole way to support the same kind of outlet if that\u2019s the position. If that\u2019s the logic that this is really supposed to help those little businesses, why wouldn\u2019t we help them all? Especially when we\u2019ve had an industry that struggled, actually, in urban areas, and right now it\u2019s picking up. You can see those little boutique brewers. They are doing better than the bigger industry, which is coming down. This would help them enormously. They actually do, in my area, have tastings, etc. So it does happen. There are flights of these specialist beers. So I would genuinely like to know why we wouldn\u2019t keep them in the equation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022442cf4d3d470403cb11baba3883ba194\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022442cf4d3d470403cb11baba3883ba194\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you for the questions, to both of the members. It was quite interesting hearing about your teenage years there and the wine that you had which was glitchy. It was not a descriptor I\u2019ve used when tasting wine, but it\u2019s interesting, none the less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo going to the second part of your question: why is this for wine? Why are we discriminating between wine and beer? Well, wine and beer are different; they\u2019re quite different under the law as well. What you\u2019ve described and your desire to support the brewers sounds like an excellent member\u2019s bill for you to bring to the House. Members\u2019 bills are about narrow issues that you can generally get agreement with to be successful, and that was why I brought this bill in the way it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve been through the select committee process already and we\u2019ve heard evidence and improved the bill. We didn\u2019t do that with beer in mind. I note that one of Dr Webb\u2019s Amendment Papers alludes to having beer available in a tasting size of 115 millilitres versus 35 millilitres for wine, but beer can have alcohol levels similar to wine. To be a wine, the minimum amount of alcohol you can have to be classed as a wine under the law is 8.5 percent. There are a lot of beers over 8.5 percent, and so why would you have a different tasting amount like that if it\u2019s similar to wine? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo the rationale is that we didn\u2019t do the work on that. I didn\u2019t intend to bring that in. Personally, if someone brought a member\u2019s bill allowing brewers to have cellar doors in a similar way under the licences that wineries have, I would support that, subject to it meeting all the right criteria, but I haven\u2019t done that work on brewers, nor have I done it on distillers. They\u2019re quite different products and they\u2019re referred to differently in the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act, so the work hasn\u2019t been done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIf I can quote from replacement section 32(g), inserted by clause 7, it says that for kinds of premises for which off-licences may be issued, which is what we\u2019re talking about here\u2014for premises that, in the opinion of the licensing authority or the licensing committee concerned, are a cellar door. So you would have to convince the licensing authorities that it was a valid cellar door.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EDr Webb talked about the bottom part of my electorate, actually, Waipara\u2014not quite the bottom, but almost\u2014and opening a cellar door for wines produced in that area. You\u2019d have to actually convince the licensing authority or the licensing committee that that was a valid cellar door. I can tell you, from experience of dealing with licensing authorities and licensing committees, although I\u2019ve only done it for my own purposes, that, actually, they are not silly people; they don\u2019t have the wool pulled over their eyes. They\u2019re very practical and they will interpret the law sometimes too harshly. So I have no fear that that will be anything that will cause any problem in the law the way it is written. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u002237a2f0e7b8ae414eb0631257cee7b823\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237a2f0e7b8ae414eb0631257cee7b823\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, Mr Chair\u2014fantastic. I\u2019m keen to talk further about the point that the member Mr Stuart Smith raised in his response there, particularly around the Amendment Paper put forward by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, around amending clause 4 and the outline that Mr Webb has put in around an amendment in the sense that the retail premises are located no more than 10 kilometres from where the main ingredients were grown or the wine was manufactured. Now, I\u2019m interested to hear your perspective on that, Stuart, particularly because I can think of a couple of circumstances where you have the winery in a particular location and you may have the tastings done somewhere else. An arbitrary 10-kilometre radius actually may not fit be fit for purpose from one location to the next.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290bc877f96674574aeb15c62edf8aa8c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Tell that to the Champagne region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022712069066fa1465e8901961778e968d8\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221afe755b4f0f486480dd7153d649fde5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Tell that to the Champagne region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223148a72846e349aca95f553663132d15\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Direct your comments to the Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2364fbbbac144b59db914d1aac38592\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I will direct my comments to the Chair, absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f362c6753474bba8aa753d20fdf6506\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f232df6bce24f29bc91355d8b962894\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just have to ignore what\u2019s taking place on the other side of the Chamber. So I\u2019m keen to know: is the 10-kilometre radius actually functional and workable here in New Zealand, or is it just setting an arbitrary location and distance that actually couldn\u2019t be worked for our local communities and our cellar doors and their tastings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee845ef28aa444d6af63c16482b8c589\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee845ef28aa444d6af63c16482b8c589\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E On this point of the nexus, I\u2019m also interested in this and I think the committee would benefit from the member Stuart Smith expanding on this definition of \u201Cwinery cellar door\u201D. The member has already explained that the licensing authority in clause 7 has to have an opinion about this, and he\u2019s explained that well, but it goes back, then, to the definition of \u201Cwinery cellar door\u201D. So that means \u201Cretail premises operated by a person for the purpose of selling grape wine\u00A0\u2026 that is made by or on behalf of that person (a) on those retail premises;\u201D\u2014so that\u2019s easy\u2014\u201Cor (b) from produce harvested from land occupied by that person\u201D. I think the concern that\u2019s coming is about how that licensing officer\u2014who\u2019s got to have the opinion in clause 7\u2014is going to interpret \u201Cfrom produce harvested on land occupied by that person\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo, for instance, it might be useful to have some examples. We\u2019ve heard about Champagne, but, of course, the far superior wine-growing region in the world is Central Otago, as we should all agree to. So if you have a wine grown\u2014say, a very fine pinot noir in Bannockburn\u2014and you are selling that in Queenstown or somewhere on the road nearby, does the member imagine that that would count as a winery cellar door? Whereas, if you have that same glorious pinot noir, grown in Bannockburn, being sold in Auckland in the viaduct\u2014what is the proximity that the member imagines would be under consideration by that licensing officer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00229db972913d494be29468b09b1956581d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229db972913d494be29468b09b1956581d\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Well, firstly, to Tom Rutherford\u2019s question\u2014that a very good question. We had evidence from Olivia Doonan from T\u016Bpari Wines, and their vineyard\u2019s in the Awatere Valley and it\u2019s quite remote. They have a cellar door in the railway station at Seddon, which is 13 kilometres away. So if it was a 10-kilometre radius\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280ac27c58e254ed09708c36708ff6999\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019d be crippled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239f36c732aa2478c837508460473b6d0\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly. Often, vineyards can be owned by the same person growing for the same winery and they can be more than 10 kilometres apart. So where does the radius start? Where do you centre that that radius? You know, would it be the closest corner of a vineyard, which may not even have the wine from some of the grapes come to go in all of the wines\u2014maybe it only goes in parts of the wines. So it becomes a bureaucratic nightmare. I think this is really clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI have no concern at all that someone could grow grapes, say, in Marlborough and open a cellar door in the viaduct in Auckland. I think that no self-respecting alcohol officer would allow that\u2014now, I think that\u2019s crazy. Try and take it as a\u2014like a bar, for example, you\u2019re only allowed to sell 35-millilitre tastings. You\u2019re charging for a 35-millilitre tasting of wine. If you want to lose money pretty quickly, that would be a good way to do it. So I think there\u2019s no way that that would be a sensible business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022195f351c3ed14532974659cd1443f9a9\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: And Queenstown, from Bannockburn?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022179580b16a9b4a18b2e369d011fb2161\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Queenstown and Bannockburn is probably a bit far, I would have thought. But I would have thought Bannockburn and then on the road at Cromwell would be quite acceptable. But as the law states, I think that would be quite acceptable. I think that\u2019s quite fair, quite frankly\u2014it stays within the spirit of it. It wouldn\u2019t be in the\u00A0Octagon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022 data-id=\u0022af9be0609cc942d0890c2fbd37ff4e7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af9be0609cc942d0890c2fbd37ff4e7d\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Thank you for bringing the member\u2019s bill. I\u2019ve got some questions. It was the first select committee I ever sat on\u2014I think it was the day after I had my swearing-in, as we would call it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EI want to ask the member, who brought this bill, why the definition of \u201Cwine\u201D is so narrow, given that we have got\u2014and I\u2019ve looked up the definitions under the original Act, the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act, and there was absolutely no mention of cider or perry, except as fruit and vegetable wines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EWe heard from a lot of different people at the select committee. We heard from the really high-end Wairarapa wineries like Ata Rangi, where they cannot afford to give away free samples of the top-level wines. We also heard how attractive cycle tourism is, whether it\u2019s Otago or, again, the Wairarapa, or, I\u2019m sure, Marlborough as well. But there are cideries that could be included as well. There are craft breweries that could be included as well. You think of the Nelson area and the specialist hops that are grown there. I think it\u2019s important to support these producers of these slightly different products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really disappointed that Catherine Wedd isn\u2019t here and couldn\u2019t talk about apples and the importance of apples, but there we are. I can talk about the importance of apples and cider in the Wairarapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EI\u2019m particularly interested in whether you can expand the definition of \u201Cwine\u201D. I think the question of location and distance\u2014not having anything there is a bit dangerous, but I\u2019m not certain of the 10 kilometres radius, either, at the moment. So if you could enlarge on those points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289623a0d2ffd4f6a80252b9bc9c10c18\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for our newer members, it\u2019s important not to refer to the absence of other members from the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00221685567b2fa140c58730ec8da8e17f96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221685567b2fa140c58730ec8da8e17f96\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you for the question. I do remember you in that first\u2014you\u2019d just given your maiden speech, virtually, and were in select committee and asked a lot of relevant questions, so it was a great start to your parliamentary career.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EActually, the questions you asked were quite valid. The issue is that wine is defined in the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act, so it has to be referred to in that way. We can\u2019t expand the definition of it in this bill. So you could bring in a member\u2019s bill for ciders and so on and have them treated similarly, but you wouldn\u2019t be able to do it in the way this is being done in this bill. We know that because it was suggested by one of the members on the committee at a select committee, and the clerk said it would be out of scope of the bill and wouldn\u2019t be able to be considered, so we didn\u2019t do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s pretty clear and cut and dry. That\u2019s not to say I\u2019ve got anything against cider or mead or other products, but this is a narrow bill, as I said, and it addresses a very small anomaly in the law, and that is why it has got to this stage so far in the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00220ae4303520e34ba9b63d4e9a54b3efd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ae4303520e34ba9b63d4e9a54b3efd4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a good moment, if I may say so, that I come to talk about one of my other Amendment Papers, which is Amendment Paper\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b94713f52cc54f0ca384c8761271014e\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Tell me what a \u201Cvegetable wine\u201D is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225354239de5e94c28b694120746a6b725\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s nothing wrong with vegetable wine. Look, it\u2019s a bit of frivolity now, and it is nice that we can do that on a bill like this. I mean, I know this is a matter that\u2019s very dear [Clears throat and drinks from glass]\u2014excuse me. [Interruption] Excuse me!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d842aca3566d485d97bc6a6b9217efa1\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, is that vegetable wine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227e99d7ffacb4926b5f6b15a4a40e178\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s in that glass?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba41a424d13341098707d5fa7577f63e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a little bit of parsley wine there for me to help it go down. But, no, look, if I may, talking about the definition of \u201Cwine\u201D, I think we\u2019ve got to be clear here that we are talking about the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act and the definition of \u201Cwine\u201D is there set out in section 58, and it makes it quite clear. It talks about two things: wine and grape wine. I think the member will find it\u2019s the Wine Act which talks about the alcohol content of wine, because the Wine Act is the Act which deals with, essentially, the quality of the wine and the standards of the wine for export and sale. Whereas it\u2019s the sale of liquor Act, which deals with the regulation of the sale of wine and other beverages of an alcoholic nature in New Zealand. Now, under section 58, any beverage which is made by the fermentation of fruit, vegetables, or grain, is, in fact, wine. That\u2019s what section 58 of the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s entirely appropriate and possible for this House to adopt my Amendment Paper 32, which simply says to remove the references to grape and make it any wine. That impact would include not only the kind of parsley and pea wine of The Good Life but also perry\u2014that is, beverages made from pears\u2014and cider\u2014that is, beverages made from the fermentation of apple juice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a34994fd0c304396820bb29173a7b7b1\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: And beer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d092f3d2e2fd4459afb0f73c65d364c7\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Not beer. Beer has the addition of hops, which is separately defined in the Act, but I\u2019m just talking about Amendment Paper 32, which simply replaces \u201Cgrape wine\u201D in various places with \u201Cwine\u201D. That would make it entirely possible for all of those other beverages, other than beer and mead, which are separately defined in the legislation, to have a cellar door, if you like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo I really don\u2019t see any difficulty with this proposal, because all it does is extend the capturing of this. I must say, I have been contacted by a number of people, particularly from cideries, who are quite affronted\u2014I haven\u2019t done a field trip yet\u2014by the fact that down the road\u2014and this is actually in the Wairarapa\u2014wineries are getting a special permission to have these licensing indulgences, whereas they are not given the same indulgences. It\u2019s putting them on the back foot; they\u2019re small artisan cideries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225631125df0584c01b21f578bee498345\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve got the pip!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bb52fcf5be1432e9b878ea2330b5160\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: They have got the pip. That was quite nice. Well done! But to get to the core of an issue\u2014we could go on all night!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227a7bc7e37a04f0ea7915ba9ed12c82c\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re a barrel of laughs!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022560420b336bc43268745a1035bc88224\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t want any sour grapes, though!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da45f817ff804dee815e4961ffa32da9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to reduce the frivolity, because this is actually a serious amendment about creating an even playing field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMy concern that I expressed in committee to the member was that this was, in fact, creating an anti-competitive environment where people didn\u2019t have the same abilities to compete, that grape wine had a competitive advantage by an unequal regulation. We don\u2019t want that. This is relaxing the red tape for grape wine and not relaxing it for cider. So let\u2019s sort that out. So I would implore the member and the other members of this House to vote in favour of this Amendment Paper 32. If the member doesn\u2019t agree with all wine being part of this bill, I\u2019d really like to understand why\u2014other than the fact that it\u2019s a narrow bill and I thought of it first. So if he could respond to that, I\u2019d really appreciate it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8de37281bd045b3b35224b67e757c55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8de37281bd045b3b35224b67e757c55\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to make a call, and I thank our colleagues who have traversed and had a good k\u014Drero about wine. I wanted to ask some questions around\u2014I\u2019ve been reading the commentary, but also clause 8 inserting new section 62A around snack food.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EI wanted to understand because it\u2019s not clear to me, as a member, in terms of what is stipulated in the amendment bill\u2014and I refer to 62A. The question I have for you, sir, is I wanted to understand snack food because it\u2019s not clear to me the word around \u201Creasonable\u201D. So in the commentary at the beginning of the bill, what it does\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276fa60463b564ce9824cb003f2657c12\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: More than one!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a08d8d58fbb84c4bb4ac7a4b6ce1f686\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE\u003C/span\u003E: Let me finish\u2014what it talks about is the snack food. Now, it doesn\u2019t explicitly state whether that\u2019s hot or whether that\u2019s cold or whether that\u2019s chips or what type of snack food. Obviously it\u2019s up to the host\u2019s responsibility, but it does have a dollar sign there. So I just wanted to understand\u2014because for some people who are not big wine connoisseurs or big wine drinkers, they will want something not complimentary because obviously it\u2019s clear here that they have to pay for that and that\u2019s understandable. But what type of exact snack food?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003EBecause in my own personal experience, when I\u2019ve been to a place in M\u0101ngere, what is important is around that snack food. Because not all people just want particularly wine; they want something with it, depending on their choice. But also it\u2019s got to be very clear. So I understand the intent that you\u2019ve got a choice\u2014and especially people that like to go and visit these types of facilities, but also what is available, and in that it does stipulate that the host has the responsibility to provide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db7fcb82-2c50-44e1-9f32-d9138c14006e\u0022\u003ESo I wanted to understand\u2014because I couldn\u2019t find it in here in terms of the definition around \u201Csnack food\u201D\u2014because some people will want that offered and want to take that opportunity. So thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022de6e5c2fac494a659a1ef5ca9d061cb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de6e5c2fac494a659a1ef5ca9d061cb7\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I thank the member for the question\u2014it\u2019s a very good one. The select committee spent some time discussing this. \u201CSnack food\u201D is defined in regulation 10, and it includes items such as potato chips, crisps, biscuits, crackers, processed seeds, and nuts. But some wineries might choose to offer cheese and other types of food. So the whole purpose of this change is so cellar doors don\u2019t have to become a restaurant. In fact, it might be of interest to the member that Pernod Ricard, which own Church Road, they gave evidence to the select committee about their difficulties. Even though they have a restaurant, they were having difficulty getting staff to staff the restaurant on the weekend, and, therefore, they had to close their cellar door. So if this bill was in place, they would be able to address that issue. So it\u2019s really snack food. I would imagine most wineries would not want to associate their wines necessarily or show their wines off at the best value with potato chips\u2014they\u2019d probably do it with some cheese, probably. But everybody\u2019s tastes are different. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022da5cd138b95d488bbb4cce9da5236cd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da5cd138b95d488bbb4cce9da5236cd1\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, Mr Chair, 13th time\u2019s the charm! Thank you, Mr Chair. Look, as the chair of the Justice Committee which considered this bill, it gives me great pleasure to stand in support of it. I actually was looking forward to our clause-by-clause debate for the night. I had all my clauses lined up. I was going to crack on with the definition of the title, adding \u201Cwinery\u201D into the title of the bill. Then, all of a sudden, we\u2019re debating the amendments right from the get-go. So if we\u2019re talking about snack food, it\u2019s a sandwich of a debate! We should be debating it from the start rather than the end, and then we\u2019re going to fill it in in the middle!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EBut I will start off by congratulating the member for bringing this bill to the House and by starting off with making a few comments in relation to the definition of \u201Cwinery\u201D and \u201Cwinery cellar door\u201D because that\u2019s what we\u2019ve been focused on for the first part of this debate, and on Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s amendments. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t be supporting the amendments at this stage, because I haven\u2019t been convinced by Dr Webb and his arguments yet. So if he wants to convince me and perhaps my colleagues on my side, he may need to rise to his feet many more times and make many more lengthy, studious, academic contributions to convince the committee that his amendments are worthwhile and are worth supporting, because, of course, tonight, we are in a personal vote situation, and every single member has the choice whether or not they support particular amendments. So if Dr Webb feels passionately about putting a 10-kilometre barrier in place, then I\u2019m happy to be convinced, but I would need a lot more energy and enthusiasm and rigour in the arguments, I think, to be convinced at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI did want to pose a question to the member in the chair. It\u2019s a question that my colleague Tom Rutherford, the wonderful member for Bay of Plenty, the second-best electorate in the country\u2014and I wanted to ask the member Stuart Smith if he was aware of what a vegetable wine is\u2014what an example is of a vegetable wine. As someone who has never, I don\u2019t think, drunk a vegetable wine in my life, I would just like a couple of examples that the member, as an experienced connoisseur of all things wine, may have come across in his life. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EOf course, it\u2019s actually somewhat ironic that I speak on a bill which is looking at the alcohol restrictions, as someone who doesn\u2019t actually drink. Coming up in July, it will have been about four years since I last drank wine or beer or any kind of alcohol. But, in saying that, I do support those who are working in this sector and working in this industry to make common-sense changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EIf I can distil what the bill is actually about at the end of the day, it is to make a very simple, straightforward, practical change so that the law then reflects what happens in practice. Obviously what happens at cellar doors and vineyards is that we have a lot of instances where people are, essentially, as a member opposite mentioned, buying flights of wine, and paying for an experience and not paying for the particular sample, and that\u2019s generally how it\u2019s done. Then they go into the off-licence part of the vineyard where they can sell bottles of wine, and they can purchase bottles of wine. But, of course, at the moment, they cannot provide samples in the part of the premises which sells the bottles of wine\u2014or they can actually provide samples; they cannot charge to recover the cost of those samples. So all it does is it makes a pretty simple, straightforward change to allow a tiny bit of cost recovery in a time where there is a lot of pressure on cost of living. So I wanted to put that on the table straight away, when we\u2019re talking about the definition of \u201Cwinery\u201D and \u201Cwinery cellar door\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI think the submissions in the select committee were well made. I think when you\u2019re talking about\u2014there\u2019s an amendment from Helen White, the member for Mt Albert, as well\u2014trying to require the retail premises to be on the same land as, I think, the produce is harvested, well, that creates a couple of issues. One of which may be that the premises might be on the other side of the road or on a slightly different title. It could be incredibly close to the cellar door but on a different bit of land. Or you could go the other way; you could say, \u201CWell, the South Island\u2014Te Wai Pounamu\u2014is one piece of land, so, under the definition of the bill, you could have a cellar door in Bluff and a vineyard up in Marlborough, and the retail premises would be strictly, under this definition, on the same piece of land.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo I wondered if the member wanted to elaborate on those two particular amendments while we\u2019re still discussing issues around the definition of \u201Ccelery\u201D and \u201Cwinery celery door\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d36af31180a8425a82e8b6005870fe86\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Winery celery door?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7af6ec1ecce43e1b1d9c18e33259e1e\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: But, just in general, I just wanted to thank the contributions of all\u2014winery celery door\u2014sorry; winery cellar door! Maybe that\u2019s the vegetable wine we\u2019re all looking for! Maybe at the end of the night, we all want a zero percent beautifully crisp celery wine to enjoy at the end of the night!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019ll ask the member if he can address some of those points and then I\u2019d love to move on the next two, three, four, five clauses of the bill over the remainder of the night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00221c16818f5fb249669be99ea6e254b5c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c16818f5fb249669be99ea6e254b5c2\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E I have to, sadly, inform the member that I have never tried a vegetable wine. Given the \u201Ccelery\u201D definition, I\u2019m unlikely to. I will put my body on the line for some things, but that wouldn\u2019t be one of them! But, no, I think the definition of where a winery could and should be is adequately covered in the bill. I think I\u2019ve covered that already, so I don\u2019t need to go any further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022292fa0d5836e4e01be89ec31ed8d36da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022292fa0d5836e4e01be89ec31ed8d36da\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I just wanted to actually reinforce and elaborate a little bit on the issue that you have started to discuss, about the inclusion of breweries, because I have this amendment which I think would solve the problem that you saw; the problem of the definition. There\u2019s an amendment on the Table which talks about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c73d7a0c73e434084fc054d6f67bbf7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Which amendment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f9950f6dd444af887d2d147dd639b5e\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014what a winery cellar door is. Sorry, it is Amendment Paper 39, and it has a definition in it of a \u201Cdistillery cellar door\u201D. So, it is specifically possible by accepting this amendment, and I\u2019m heartened that there\u2019s an indication that this is a personal vote situation, we could include by accepting this amendment the architecture to stretch this out. This would really assist in our cities in a way that is incredibly important at the moment. We have businesses in the fringes of our cities which are doing this well, but as has been mentioned, they are doing flights. This would allow a whole other option for them, and it would be a boost to those businesses, and allow them a chance to innovate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to know why you think it is not possible to simply accept this amendment, and then move to that state? I take your point that you consider members\u2019 bills often narrow, but there is an issue with being narrow, and being actually representatives of the entire nation. So having a law that zeroes in on one place is really\u2014it\u2019s something that we don\u2019t tend to do. We tend to think strategically and structurally. I would like to know why this would do any harm, if you consider the other part of your law overall positive?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u002208afb284707b4699a484cb1ef9805e65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208afb284707b4699a484cb1ef9805e65\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you very much. I wanted to move on to the next issue that we dealt with in the select committee, which was, of course, the sample size provision. I\u2019m aware that there are some amendments in Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s name around different types of alcohol, and different sizes of the samples that are being put forward. The member in the chair outlined pretty clearly why he thinks that some of the sample sizes being often poured aren\u2019t appropriate, but during the consideration of the bill, it was originally proposed that the sample size be 40\u00A0millilitres. For the insight of the members of the Chamber, I understand that a teaspoon is around 5 millilitres. So, you\u2019ve got about 8 teaspoons of wine there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de961cc3e3fe4cf190bfee263e9bac13\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Six, I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a69eb1f5dfc44e6be489cd3eec99a85\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: Six millilitres? Well, I can\u2019t do that maths\u2014to the member in the chair. So let\u2019s say around about 5 millilitres\u2014so around about 6 teaspoons for a 30-millilitre pour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ENow, the officials did provide advice, and the advice was that they believe that for alcohol harm minimisation reasons, the sample size should be reduced to 30 millilitres. The issue with that though is that when you are pouring these samples, there was a very real risk that 1 millilitre over a 30-millilitre sample size could put you strictly in breach of the Act. With no tolerance, we wouldn\u2019t want, you know, well-meaning sommeliers or whatever the fancy wine word is for when you pour these things; my other colleagues around the Chamber\u2014Matt Doocey might well know more about pouring wine samples, the Minister for Tourism and Hospitality. But one of the issues was, without enough tolerance, the standard pour tended to be about 30 millilitres. So if you poured 1 millilitre over, you\u2019d technically be in breach of the provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo I understand that that\u2019s why the member originally brought 40 millilitres as the sample size to the House. Now, there was actually a significant amount of back and forth in the select committee on this; we were actually concerned generally, and the bill\u2019s concerned with it, and the Ministry of Justice gave a significant amount of advice on alcohol harm minimisation and what this could do in the bill. We came to a conclusion that 35\u00A0millilitres might be an appropriate level to go with. The member was very gracious to accept that and not to put much of a battle up with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EBut we\u2019ve got to quantify this. If members think back to their teenage days, or whether or not they were skulking around the Bowler in Dunedin, which, actually, I managed the Bowler in Dunedin. So I know what a 30-millilitre pour looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022060274af57f14087bc172860a4ebed1d\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Did you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a30f5c5102e746a9bcf7acdc863d8ebd\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: I managed the Bowler, and then it turned into the university\u2019s health sciences department\u2014M\u0101ori Health Workforce Development Unit. Then I ended up working in the M\u0101ori Health Workforce Development Unit in the pokies room that the Bowler used to have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EBut, that aside, if members can recall their days in the Bowling Green Tavern\u201430\u00A0millilitres is the size of a shot glass. So, when you\u2019re talking about alcohol harm minimisation, going from 40 to 35, or 35 to 30, is not making a significant amount of difference. In reality, what this is doing is actually saying that we\u2019re now going to put a cost or a charge on that sample size of 35 millilitres. Previously, you could provide all the free samples you\u2019d like. You could have 100 shot glasses of wine, of Central Otago Pinot Noir\u00A0lined up\u2014you could line them up, and, you know, you could go for your life and not charge a cent for it, but now you\u2019re putting a charge on it. So, who\u2019s going to go along and line up 100 shot glasses of Pinot Noir and $7 a glass, just so they can get blotto on shots of wine at a time? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI think it is unrealistic to expect that this is going to have a significant impact on alcohol harm minimisation, and as a member of the House who doesn\u2019t actually drink\u2014and, actually, ironically, the other member from this side of the Chamber who\u2019s taken a call, Tom Rutherford, also doesn\u2019t drink. But we can understand, we can think through the process, we can think through the logic of why sample sizes might need to be 35 or 40\u00A0millilitres to make sure you build in that tolerance. Because, when you\u2019re making standard pour, and you\u2019ve poured these samples over and over and over, you want to make sure there\u2019s a little bit of grace there in the case of an accidental overpour, of a teaspoon or two more. So, for the sake of a teaspoon or two, I\u2019d like to ask the member whether he thinks that 35 millilitres has come to the right place on this particular bill; whether or not, you know, he would even propose pushing back up to 40 millilitres, because I certainly wouldn\u2019t necessarily be opposed to that, or whether or not other amendments on the Table concerning sample sizes are at all relevant to touch on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3e1424bd33f4e1b8fabb4c6f5a741d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3e1424bd33f4e1b8fabb4c6f5a741d8\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Firstly, to Helen White\u2019s Amendment Paper 39\u2014actually, this was raised in select committee, and we were advised it would be out of scope of the bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6711a08ba5f432189479735ad8f70a5\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: Not anymore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271e169174b9440b1814121008f40f3a1\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that may well be the case, but the reason it was to be out of scope was because it didn\u2019t really fit in the bill. So, on that basis, I don\u2019t support it at all.\u00A0There\u2019s not been enough work done on things like 35 millilitres, or whatever the sample sizes are, and all those other implications that actually require quite a bit of work behind them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIn terms of the 35 millilitres, I did check around some cellar doors in Margaret River, when I was over there, checking on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b85588fe6af44b2b0219cafc0d88090\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Doing some tastings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f123c089c4814b338271b3e05a2b02ae\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I did do some tasting there, to see what their practice was. It was very similar to what this bill is proposing. It is 5 millilitres in a teaspoon, so 30 millilitres is 6 teaspoons; 7 would be for 35. You do need to allow a little bit of\u2014people like to pour it by hand. Yes, you could measure it out, but it all becomes\u2014you know, it would ruin the experience, quite frankly. People are very good at pouring it to that level. So I think that 35\u00A0millilitres has been a good compromise. I think it will work really well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EFor those who think you should have less: really, for wine tasting, you need enough wine in the glass to be able to get the aromas to taste it. Many people\u2014having had a cellar door myself\u2014who taste wine don\u2019t drink it. They swirl it around their mouth and they spit it out. You have a spittoon for that. It might be sacrilege to some people; it\u2019s quite commonplace in the wine industry. It\u2019s about getting a mouth feel, and about having enough wine to get the aromas to come off that glass, and so you can enjoy that experience and assess it. So I make no apology for 35\u2014I think I wouldn\u2019t want it to be any less. I do accept the argument of it not being 40 millilitres\u2014reluctantly, but I did accept it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022 data-id=\u002281907a0f61e143c993665c4dc978ef4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281907a0f61e143c993665c4dc978ef4b\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I wonder if the member could\u2014and I\u2019m most surprised at my colleague over the Chamber for actually misreading the amendment bill where it says, in replacement section 17(2), inserted by clause 6, that the licensee can also do one or both of the following: supply alcohol for free or sell alcohol as a sample. I\u2019d like the member to confirm that there is still the choice for the licensee to do whichever suits their business model appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like the member to answer why\u2014and I\u2019m speaking here as somebody who actually has made raspberry wine, rhubarb wine, elderflower wine, and elderberry wine, so I have some experience here. Tonight at the British High Commission, I enjoyed something slightly surprising, a zero-alcohol British chardonnay, so you never know what\u2019s coming\u00A0next.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fa4845f-2fb3-4c2c-828a-40a363d3a159\u0022\u003EBut, getting back to this, there is no reason that we should be putting grape wine on a pedestal compared to the most excellent ciders and fruit wines. I mean, if you look at the South Island production of blackcurrants and things like that, let\u2019s be a little bit more innovative. Let\u2019s look at the different producers. Can you tell me why you are fixated on Vitis vinifera rather than any other plant that can be used to produce a pleasant tasting and relaxing beverage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00224ae5225016d6451e929a3e64f979fbef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ae5225016d6451e929a3e64f979fbef\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Actually, I covered that before, so I think that\u2019s all been covered. So I thank the member for the question, but the reality is it wasn\u2019t considered to be within scope of the bill and so we didn\u2019t consider that. It might be worthy, but that\u2019s something perhaps you could take up as a member\u2019s bill. I\u2019d probably support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022dedff35c3a17435a965a000ea6c486e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dedff35c3a17435a965a000ea6c486e5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I appreciate I\u2019ve had two calls already, but I just want to speak to my last Amendment Paper, which is Amendment Paper 31. This is the one, essentially, in respect of beer. I know that there\u2019ll be a number of votes, and I\u2019m hoping that the whip on the other side has got his proxy forms\u2014there is no whip on the other side\u2014signed and ready to go in accordance with Standing Order 152. I hope that your members have thought carefully about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI do want to make it clear that the Business Committee has said that this House can consider the fruit wine paper and the brewery paper. Even though it might have been out of scope for the purposes of this debate and the instruction to this committee, these two Amendment Papers are within scope. I thank the member in charge of the bill for perhaps not celebrating that but at least accepting that it was appropriate for this House to debate them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis Amendment Paper expands the scope of the Act to include tastings of beer. It\u2019s all it really does\u2014and mead, although you can buy mead, but it\u2019s pretty unusual; it\u2019s not a huge market. But just for consistency across all beverages, it includes brewery and mead. And, of course, beer isn\u2019t the same as wine and it does have a slightly larger sample size. Most beers are around the 5 percent mark. Some creep up. Occasionally you might get one at 8 percent, but that would be truly extraordinary\u2014115 millilitres seems entirely appropriate. But I\u2019m really interested in, again, why the member isn\u2019t\u2014and I guess I should really be speaking to the House as a whole, because each member will have a vote on this. If they haven\u2019t given a signed proxy to your whip, then I hope they\u2019ll come down and vote on this because it\u2019s really just a matter of making it consistent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe Brewers Guild, who represent brewers in New Zealand, including small artisan brewers, were really quite keen for this to be included. So even if this doesn\u2019t pass the House, can I say we have done our job, because that voice has now been properly heard and it\u2019s open to all members to vote on this Amendment Paper and those other two Amendment Papers of mine. So I would absolutely commend it to the House. But I would be interested in the member\u2019s response to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00229cf0f72f6e5f4cf181805dd8b3bb3212\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cf0f72f6e5f4cf181805dd8b3bb3212\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you, Dr\u00A0Webb. I\u2019m addressing your Amendment Paper. So while we\u2019re on the subject of teaspoons\u2014so we\u2019re talking a maximum of 7 teaspoons for a wine tasting, we\u2019re talking 23 teaspoons for a beer tasting. Actually, if you look on the Garage Project website, you can find several beers at 12 percent alcohol, which is what a lot of wines are at. So you\u2019ve an immediate anomaly there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThat is why I raised the issue about what the clerk had indicated on the scope of the bill, because the work\u2019s not been done on it. If the work had been on that particular issue, you would end up with beers stratified in different alcohol categories with different tasting size, I\u2019d imagine, if it was to fit with the spirit of this bill and what we have achieved with this. So I think it was a nice try, but I think we\u2019ve got two potential member\u2019s bills coming up\u2014one in Celia Wade-Brown\u2019s name and one in Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s name. So I look forward to seeing those in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u00221eb93b6218b64b3e88660dcbfda5cdcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221eb93b6218b64b3e88660dcbfda5cdcd\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I would like to thank the member in the chair as well, for his patience as we navigate through these questions. What I\u2019d like to draw your attention to, please, just for some thoughts, some feedback, is, firstly, on the subject of\u2014since we\u2019re talking about beer and brewers, I\u2019d like to ask the member what he thinks about the person that made the submission on behalf of the Brewers Association of New Zealand, Mr Stuart Smith. You may recall that the question was posed to him what the definition of \u201Ccraft beer\u201D is, and he acknowledged that there isn\u2019t actually a definition of \u201Ccraft beer\u201D. So if you do recall that conversation taking place, Mr Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EFollowing from that, since Amendment Paper 31 suggests putting in \u201Cbrewery cellar door\u201D and mead, \u201Cmeadery cellar door\u201D\u2014English is my second language\u2014what do you envisage the impact would be on passing your bill if we were to enact these amendments with all these rafts of different definitions that need to be made and the conversations we\u2019ll have to have around that? Do you envisage that it would be quite a swift affair, given how many conversations were made just about the definition of \u201Cwinery cellar door\u201D? Or do you envisage that it will take an extremely long time, thereby impacting the purpose, the scope of your bill and the ability for us to just pass this bill? As you said, there\u2019s a few ideas for members\u2019 bills coming up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003ESo, first, the submission given by the Brewers Association, where it was acknowledged that there\u2019s no actual definition for something as common these days as \u201Ccraft beer\u201D; and,\u00A0second, the impact of applying Amendment Paper 31 to the progress of this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002214c99ea33dc842dba60f3ed9d86ca7c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214c99ea33dc842dba60f3ed9d86ca7c9\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I thank the member for the question. Actually, yeah, the Brewers Association of New Zealand spokesperson did\u2014it wasn\u2019t me, I don\u2019t think, who\u2019d asked that question. But the definition of a \u201Ccraft brewery\u201D\u2014well, there isn\u2019t one. Nothing in the law, anyway, or the standards that I\u2019m aware of. But the reason Amendment Paper 31 is, you know, one we\u2019re opposed to, I\u2019ve just explored before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EBasically, there are so many other variables that haven\u2019t actually been addressed through the good work that the Justice Committee did on this bill. If someone wants to bring a bill along that line\u2014and I\u2019m expecting to see Dr\u00A0Webb\u2019s name on one of those bills in the ballot, very shortly\u2014that would be where they would go through all those potential fish-hooks that could be ironed out. A worthy idea, but not suitable in this bill, in my opinion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00222e118f4c0626422ea9d33f3b12c107e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e118f4c0626422ea9d33f3b12c107e9\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u002279bd14b05c194261bfb568e6e1a7b2c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279bd14b05c194261bfb568e6e1a7b2c9\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m speaking on behalf of \u201Cbrewers\u201D up and down the country, mainly in and around Taranaki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ELook, I just want to test the theory that\u2019s come out of Dr Webb\u2019s Amendment Paper 30(b) where he\u2019s pushing for \u201Cretail premises are located no more than 10 km from where the main ingredients [are] grown or the wine was manufactured\u201D. I want to test that theory\u2014and the sponsor of this bill may be able to help me on this\u2014as to the financial viability. We heard the Labour member across the way there talk about the Auckland viaduct. I want to test the financial viability of Leo Molloy setting up a shop\u2014a bar, if you like\u2014that\u2019s selling 35-millilitre pours of wine from, say, the South Island, the pinot noirs of Central Otago or the Gisborne chardonnays or the sauvignon blancs from where you are, Stuart Smith.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo I want to just test that; I want to get your view, and I know you\u2019re listening intently to me, as to the financial viability\u2014because you\u2019ve been in and around the industry long enough\u2014of setting up one of these shops; these wine cellars. Say if we call it \u201CWebb\u2019s Wine Bar\u201D\u2014W-H-I-N-E, maybe; maybe. Webb\u2019s Wine Bar, Oxford Terrace\u2014Oxford Terrace. How, given all the costs around rates, leases, staff, everything else, selling 35\u00A0millilitres, which is the proposition that has been put to us. How much of a likelihood is that as a business model? With your entrepreneurial hat on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EI also want to test, Mr Smith, just how strong, when you put the intent of legislation in the legislation. So we might be flying off the handle that people are going to set up cellar doors unless Mr Webb gets his amendment through for a 10-kilometre radius maximum. But from what I understand, and looking at the intent of this legislation\u2014I know this was very important to the committee\u2014is \u201CIt is not the intention of this legislation to enable opportunistic bars to operate as [testing] venues to avoid the protections otherwise found in the Act.\u201D So the intention is very clear of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ESo, again, my question to the sponsor is: is it, in his mind, a workable business model for the Leo Molloys to take off with this tomorrow\u2014or whenever it\u2019s enacted\u2014and set up a bar that\u2019s generously selling 35 millilitres of South Island pinot noir? Secondly, would the Auckland district licensing authority look at this legislation and see the intention and say to Leo Molloy, \u201CThat is not the intention of the bar\u2014of the bill; or the bar\u2014and we are not going to license you.\u201D So I want to test both those scenarios with the sponsor. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffd4ea677e8244d9a5de7996149c877f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffd4ea677e8244d9a5de7996149c877f\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I\u2019d like to thank Cameron on behalf of all the \u201Cbrewers\u201D. Yeah, look, I think we\u2019ve covered this before, but we\u2019ll go with it for a minute. I would never want to second-guess what Mr Leo Molloy would find as a profitable business or not. But the reality is if he\u2019s selling 35 millilitres, they can go down the street somewhere else and buy 150\u00A0millilitres or 115 millilitres or whatever it is. So it wouldn\u2019t really be a viable option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EGenerally, if you\u2019ve convinced\u2014and I doubt you\u2019d be able to convince the licensing authority that that was a valid winery, but if you did, it would only be selling those products from that vineyard. Whereas successful off-premises businesses have a wide range of products for sale and people would pick up, no doubt, a six-pack of beer and maybe some spirits. Well, you can\u2019t do that with a winery cellar door, so I don\u2019t think that\u2019s got any chance of flying at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u00222bc5b03de14d448ba8424d726c57464f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bc5b03de14d448ba8424d726c57464f\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Look, we\u2019ve got a couple more parts\u2014or, well, clauses in the bill that I\u2019d like to touch on, one of which is the provision of snack food. But I needed to make a couple of responses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022117fd57acff4417ebd6fc3d1c73557c7\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: Already talked about it\u2014repetition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f451390493884da597c227b74c7e64d9\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well, I needed to have at least a chance to talk about what\u2019s actually in the bill, so I will talk about snack food. But I just wanted to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdf1704767244ab0850311952f7a2f31\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I am looking for new material. Snack food was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257c4141e8ae840b99f314ebc9e615f3e\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll make a couple of observations. The first of which is that the key witness for the Opposition\u2014Dr Webb\u2014is from Christchurch, and then we also had Laura Trask saying it\u2019s such a waste to spit the wine out, also from Christchurch. So I won\u2019t draw any threads between the two, but something\u2019s going on north of me in my neighbourhood. I just wanted to make a comment that perhaps an amendment to the bill could be to outlaw British chardonnays from being consumed in the Wellington area, because I think that\u2019s close to treasonous. But I won\u2019t make that accusation of any member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019m glad Mr Brewer got a chance to have a call. I\u2019m hoping we could also have a call from Mr Foster\u2014and the Fosters who might want to contribute to the debate!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EBut just on the provision of snack food, we haven\u2019t actually talked about why this clause is in the bill. It was quite a lengthy discussion at the Justice Committee and we actually went away to get some advice from officials on this. So this is a contribution which is not competitive\u2014ah, repetitive; it\u2019s very competitive. But it\u2019s not repetitive; it\u2019s brand new. The issue was that the member in charge, Stuart Smith, and the committee were weary of putting overly burdensome regulations and requirements in place for wine cellar door operators whereby they may have to go and get commercial kitchen - grade food licences if they were to have to provide full host responsibility requirements, where they may well be settled with thousands of dollars of compliance and costs, all for the sake of making a bit of money back on the cost recovery for their sample sizes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo we actually went away and asked the officials to do some work on whether or not providers would be required to have significant compliance costs imposed on them if they were asked to provide snack foods, which was a suggestion under the bill. The advice came back that the cost would be in the vicinity of $200 to $300 over two or three years\u2014I can\u2019t quite recall what it was. The committee considered that piece of advice and considered that, in our view, that was quite a reasonable amount to place on providers in order to offset, again, some of those alcohol harm minimisation aspects that might come with providing these sample sizes. So I did want to mention that\u2014that is why some of the snack food provisions are in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EAs the member in the chair, Stuart Smith, did point out, there are definitions of what snack food is. We aren\u2019t expecting cellular providers to provide a full carvery. We aren\u2019t expecting them to put a full course meal on. We are expecting them to approach this with common sense. That is throughout the bill. The bill really does just implement and codify what is happening in practice. Sometimes, we do get caught up in all the commas and all the colons and whether or not the right clause is in the right place. I\u2019m sure, over the next term, there\u2019ll be lengthy discussions about whether a clause is appropriate, and amendments to clauses, and all these kind of things. But, sometimes, we just have to get back to the principle that if you take a common-sense approach to a lot of these issues, you can actually resolve it\u2014OK\u2014in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe final thing I\u2019ll add in my short contribution\u2014before I ask the member just to make a comment or reflection on whether or not he does think it\u2019s reasonable for those snack food provisions to be in place\u2014is that I\u2019m also looking forward to the ability to charge for sample sizes on Good Friday or Easter Monday, perhaps, if another member\u2019s bill goes through. So we might see some further changes in this area, which may allow some small businesses in parts of the country to continue to thrive, which is what they really need at the moment. They need support from Parliament to make it as easy as possible to do business. I think this bill does this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m aware that my colleague Tom Rutherford\u2014to my right\u2014would like to make a contribution around the provision of water, which we haven\u2019t talked about at all, which is very important from a host responsibility perspective, It\u2019s incredibly new material\u2014I\u2019m\u00A0looking forward to it. As a man from a bay, he knows a lot about water. But I\u2019d like to congratulate the member Stuart Smith once again. I\u2019m asking for his view on the issue of providing snack food, the costs involved, and then take us through the end of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002241c6d08c47034108ae7a7556bd65483d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241c6d08c47034108ae7a7556bd65483d\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I thank Mr Meager, who is the chair of the Justice Committee, which did do a great job on this. There was quite a lot of discussion on snack food or food provision, just per se, and then we narrowed it down\u2014well, the select committee did\u2014to snack food, which was a sensible decision. Ultimately, it\u2019s because of host responsibility. The costs are very reasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EAs you quite rightly say, it will\u2014I think the example I gave earlier of Pernod Ricard, a large winery with a kitchen that couldn\u2019t get staff on a day. Well, those are the challenges that small cellar doors would face every day. Ironically, if you\u2019re giving samples away for free, you don\u2019t have to provide food. Under this bill, they\u2019ll be able to charge for samples, but they\u2019ll have to provide food. Snack food isn\u2019t everybody\u2019s cup of tea\u2014mixing metaphors there\u2014but I think it\u2019s absolutely appropriate and it will be well accepted by the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022edb2916ce2ce4c87a0b46e878b21e2e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edb2916ce2ce4c87a0b46e878b21e2e4\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. As my colleague James Meager, the MP for Rangitata, did allude to in his contribution just before, I do want to talk about some new material now. We had colleagues from the other side of the House heckling, saying, \u201CNew material, new material.\u201D Well, here\u2019s some new material and wake up, because one of the aspects included here is around the provision of water, which we actually haven\u2019t had any discussion or contribution or just debate on. What it says here is: \u201CWe recommend inserting new clause 9 to amend section 116(2)(c) of the Act.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ENow, the amendment would make it a compulsory condition of off-licences that drinking water must be freely available to customers at a designated place on the premises while grape wine\u2014grape wine, Mr Webb, not vegetables or not fruit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293505b69d20e4593ae20bd385bdf0f7d\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Here\u2019s a list of vegetable wines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ca2be3549fc4d02b23cb5dc5782145c\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, yeah. I\u2019m just having a look here. My colleague brings to my attention a list of vegetable wines: carrot, corn, cucumber, sweet pea, pumpkin, sweet potato, zucchini, and the chief whip said he had parsley wine\u2014parsley wine. Goodness me! But this is particularly focused on grape wine as being sold as a sample. There is already a requirement that says in section 116(2)(c) for when alcohol is being supplied free as a sample. But when you\u2019re moving to what the provisions of this bill are enabling around having cellar door tastings sold, rather than as free, this is looking to amend it around ensuring we\u2019ve got water available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EI\u2019m keen to understand from the member in charge of the bill around why provision of water and having it readily available is actually really important to patrons and to the cellar door sellers themselves, and in that space\u2014[Passed a glass of water]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6669cf6558f4062ae8e11552720cc78\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: A provision of water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226844d31218b243e9b976118e670fb20b\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yeah, thank you. There\u2019s my provision of water. I needed it. But why having that available is actually really important, because if I think about it, if I\u2019m heading out to have my cellar door tasting\u2014I might be going with my colleague Mark Mitchell, and I\u2019m getting slightly parched, and I\u2019ve had a few of my wine tastings, and I think, \u201COh, actually, I might have some water instead.\u201D Having this provision of water being available when I\u2019m purchasing the wine, rather than when I\u2019m having it sampled as free as it is at the moment, is actually really vitally important to me as the patron. So I\u2019m keen to understand why that\u2019s the case, and I\u2019d invite the member to respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002298957a10fd8747608510734a9f8fe91d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298957a10fd8747608510734a9f8fe91d\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I thank the member, but I think he answered his own question. He had a glass of water there, and that is why you have water there. If you\u2019ve got alcohol available, you should always have a non-alcohol option, and that is water, in this case, and they\u2019ll have to provide it. All wineries would do that anyway, because people often like to rinse their glass between different samples if they\u2019re just using one glass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u002276df4b97575b4d04be972973f8752718\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276df4b97575b4d04be972973f8752718\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Look, out of interest, I\u2019m going to ask two questions in relation to a couple of the Amendment Papers which are here, and I\u2019d like the sponsor of the bill to respond to these. The first one of them is that the idea of having a 10-kilometre radius seems, to me, to be very arbitrary. I understand that the idea is to try and avoid having grapes grown in, say, Marlborough and then sold\u2014as we\u2019ve heard about\u2014in Auckland. I\u00A0understand that concern. Was any thought given as to whether this should be, say, within the province, within the district, or within the territorial authority area, or whatever it might be, so that wine grown in Marlborough is sold in Marlborough, and that becomes a cellar door sale. But if you wanted to sell it in Auckland or Canterbury, or whatever, that might not be. There might be some boundary issues there, but was any thought given to that kind of an idea, because 10 kilometres seems very arbitrary, and, obviously, there\u2019s some concern that there is no limit in terms of the distance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe second question I wanted to ask is in relation to Amendment Paper 31. The mover of that particular amendment, Dr Duncan Webb, wants to move away from just talking about grape wine, and I note that when I look at the definition of \u201Cwine\u201D, it actually says that it is grape wine, and so if you want to make it something different, you\u2019ve got to make it fruit wine or something else like that. But we\u2019ve got in the Amendment Paper \u201Cbrewery cellar doors\u201D, we\u2019ve got \u201Cmeadery cellar doors\u201D, but what we don\u2019t have\u2014and I heard some discussion around cider. I was wondering where are the cideries, and I don\u2019t see those. My preference would be cider, rather than beer\u2014but, you know. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo we don\u2019t have that, but I wonder if any thought was given\u2014and I look both across the aisle there, but also to you, Stuart Smith\u2014about making it just simply \u201Calcoholic beverages\u201D, because we get ourselves into the situation of trying to micromanage these things to say that that one\u2019s in and that one\u2019s out. But why not be just more flexible, because the one thing I do know from having been a district licensing commissioner in a past life and having had to work with the instruments that central government imposes on local government is that sometimes things are so closely defined, it\u2019s actually really, really unhelpful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ESo I just wondered about those two questions: first of all, whether there\u2019s a different way\u00A0of approaching the distance one, and, secondly, whether there\u2019s a different way of approaching the definition of what other beverages might want to be helped by this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u0022f758c8ada8f840f89ea338556314bfe3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f758c8ada8f840f89ea338556314bfe3\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Look, I think I\u2019ve covered this adequately before, but I\u2019ll do it again. Once you get an arbitrary line, there\u2019s always going to be someone on the wrong side of it, and it was felt to be simple and it\u2019s covered here. The licensing authority, as the member Andy Foster will know, having himself been involved as one\u2014we\u2019ll leave it to the judgment of them as to whether it\u2019s a valid cellar door or not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EIn terms of\u2014what was the other question?\u2014the cideries, and so on, we covered all that as well. That wasn\u2019t in this bill. Originally, it was tried to be added to the bill, but it was ruled to be likely to be out of scope. The member Dr Duncan Webb has brought it in legitimately through Amendment Paper 31, and it is legitimately here for the vote, but the reality is that the work hasn\u2019t been done on it. All of those little rough edges that were in the bill have been sorted out through the select committee process, but the ones in those Amendment Papers haven\u2019t, and it\u2019s not actually, in my view, suitable at all\u2014those particular Amendment Papers. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u002292b1d64e3f6e4a28b05a5aee24995b04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292b1d64e3f6e4a28b05a5aee24995b04\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229076eb4fb7b04a5c8f6ed2184eedc74d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229076eb4fb7b04a5c8f6ed2184eedc74d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s amendment set out on Amendment Paper 31 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002202277afe036e4376a4ca22bfe71f0915\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 36\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv 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(P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETana (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis S\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcLellan\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETangaere-Manuel (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEdmonds (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMen\u00E9ndez March (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EXu-Nan\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETuiono\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHalbert (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPaul (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPham (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EVerrall (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHernandez\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWade-Brown\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 78\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAnderson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson R\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcCallum (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArbuckle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimmonds (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBates (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFleming (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKee\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFoster\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMeager\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESosene\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMooney\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBoyack\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGrigg (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENakhle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStephenson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrewer\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHamilton\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENimon (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETrask\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrooking\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUffindell (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHoggard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUnkovich (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EButterick\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKirkpatrick\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUtikere\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECameron (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECampbell (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPotaka (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan Velden\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECheung\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELu (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWatts (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EChhour\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxon (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWedd\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton C\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERedmayne\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWeenink\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECostello (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton J (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECostley (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacLeod\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERutherford\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECourt\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c644c70334cc44199d82f8150136414e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c644c70334cc44199d82f8150136414e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Helen White\u2019s amendment to clause 1 set out on Amendment Paper 39 is ruled out of order as being the same as an amendment that was previously not agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHelen White\u2019s remaining amendments set out on Amendment Paper 39 are ruled out of order as being outside the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s amendment set out on Amendment Paper 30 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022be4bef8433a446bc88577ff0def57a63\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA personal vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 38\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAbel\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHernandez (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERurawhe (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EVerrall (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAndersen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELeary\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERussell (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWade-Brown (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBelich (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELyndon (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESepuloni (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWebb\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBennett (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcAnulty (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESosene (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWhite\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECarter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcLellan\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWilliams (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson M (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMen\u00E9ndez March (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETana (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis S\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EEdmonds (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor D (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETangaere-Manuel (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWoods (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGenter (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EO\u2019Connor G\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETinetti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EXu-Nan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHalbert (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPaul (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETuiono (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHenare (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPham (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETwyford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 77\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\n        \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\n          \u003Ctable\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EAnderson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDavidson R\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcCallum (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESeymour (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EArbuckle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EDoocey (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcClay (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimmonds (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBates (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFleming (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMcKee\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESimpson (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBayly (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EFoster\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMeager\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBidois (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGarcia (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMitchell (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStanford (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBishop (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGoldsmith (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMooney\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EStephenson\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBoyack\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EGrigg (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENakhle\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ETrask\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrewer\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHamilton\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ENimon (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUffindell (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrooking\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHipkins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParker (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUnkovich (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrown (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EHoggard (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EParmar (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUpston (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EBrownlee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EJones (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPatterson\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EUtikere\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EButterick\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKirkpatrick\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPenk (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan de Molen (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECameron (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EKuriger\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPeters (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003Evan Velden\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECampbell (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELee (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPotaka (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWatts (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECheung (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELu (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EPugh (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWedd\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EChhour (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxon (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERadhakrishnan (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWeenink\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECollins (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton C (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERedmayne\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EWillis N (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECostello (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ELuxton J (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EReti (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECostley (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMacLeod\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ERutherford\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ECourt\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003EMarcroft (P)\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003ESalesa\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000715\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 28, Noes 77.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228f8fcd25de82458d903a0c4a72583410\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f8fcd25de82458d903a0c4a72583410\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s amendments set out on Amendment Paper 32 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227e641b514a4f48b98fa9c60afc82249c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022995e5598ad5a40cc94651ccdf59402c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022995e5598ad5a40cc94651ccdf59402c5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Helen White\u2019s amendment to clause 4 set out on Amendment Paper 38 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a45ff9db24524b3d9b1ffc25fd6e0037\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000718\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 9 agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4064116a41d48a68b3248d5575b31ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4064116a41d48a68b3248d5575b31ee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I will report this bill without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dff0e0db660f43ec80cbdfa506455332\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Personal vote\u2014personal vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba9f291d71064998b4de4ae6d36294fb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry, was that a personal vote? My apologies, I missed that. Sorry, a personal vote was called for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a6ee70860cc49c4b272f0b5f7bd1ef8\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: After you\u2019d reported it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228232a0eecc7c4f52b0c32f41ee9747ef\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: A personal vote will be held. Ring the bells.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022e67ecf2cb1ec4137918d330e97528bf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e67ecf2cb1ec4137918d330e97528bf7\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chair. Mr Chair, everybody present heard you record the vote, announce the vote, and report the bill back. I would contend that the vote is now complete and the result recorded, and the opportunity for a personal vote is no longer available to the Chair or to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022f82fdf3dd94944baa35fd036e978ddd0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f82fdf3dd94944baa35fd036e978ddd0\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri): \u003C/span\u003ESpeaking to the point of order. Personally\u2014and\u00A0I\u2019m just speaking because this has been a conscience vote, and there has been a lot going on and some of us don\u2019t have proxies, and I don\u2019t agree that we all knew and heard and were able to do it, so I would like to see the personal vote proceed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d98b658ddba46b59c4b76fd60d5908c\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8280d406bc44fa690047794c9a95922\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228d9051938f884d7fa45f06012b0d34c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d9051938f884d7fa45f06012b0d34c9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before we do that\u2014OK, what I\u2019m going to do is I\u2019m going to ask: was a personal vote called for?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b81dc806b16a4369aeb316fa076dd87f\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d9cd5eb1bf04240b5771c8eaa6e88d0\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f95ed7b4ccb4616b78f613fed6129c0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: It was. OK, I missed that. We are now going to have a personal vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215ff796cead64f808b4d7506d21d091e\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad79611e11124d8b86e0e3b3cca82ca4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, but I\u2019ve made a ruling. As a result of my error\u2014and I realise that\u2014I\u2019ve taken advice and we are now going to have a personal vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u0022068e48e979574133a5cae237f686ed12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022068e48e979574133a5cae237f686ed12\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I would contend that the vote was held in silence and that you recorded and announced the result, and I don\u2019t think the Hansard would reflect that a personal vote was called for before the vote was recorded and read out. Is it possible now to seek a transcript and have that clarified now? I would contend that the result that you\u2019ve announced should stand. Notwithstanding whether members were all paying attention, the vote was held in silence and there was an opportunity to raise it at the time, respectfully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7780b05fc314f1cb14f0daf28874b0f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7780b05fc314f1cb14f0daf28874b0f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I\u2019m prepared to do that. I\u2019ll ask Hansard: was a personal vote called for? [Clerks give advice] OK. Right. Now, we have just taken all the advice from people that know more about this than I do, fortunately. Mr Court, your point of order is correct. I have announced the vote. The vote will stand. The only thing that can happen now is that someone can seek leave to have the vote recorded. Does anyone want to seek leave?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00228ab7c4da1f7e48dbb76155129ae07616\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ab7c4da1f7e48dbb76155129ae07616\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chair. I seek leave for a personal vote to be recorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002299c875d8d2a140adb923aeb69394ad0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299c875d8d2a140adb923aeb69394ad0e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207e970d62ad741b7a769ca5ef724a409\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d43d1a04ceed4037b5306b893a73d9bc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the points of order have now been ruled, unless it\u2019s a new point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2a02a4ed66e4c819882d703a3d175eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2a02a4ed66e4c819882d703a3d175eb\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E It is a new point of order. With the greatest respect, when you had made your previous ruling, I understood that you had made a ruling, and then you actually gave leave to Mr Court to be able to do a new point of order. On that basis, I feel that it\u2019s appropriate to be able to just say that this is a matter of great importance to people who follow the alcohol and drugs conversations, and to miss out on an\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224d592f52bb748dea552b995552a9e3e\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing about drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c83c67d7879f4acd9cf21f2afe4eddb7\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014appropriate personal vote for the sake of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fc1365ecb2f47d3860ffc5d3a6a82bb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: In silence, please, Mr Doocey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211975551d9db40ddb6e977168a8f1588\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to miss out on representing our constituents and our conscience appropriately because there has been a confusing succession of points of order and then a change of heart. With the greatest respect, I wonder if perhaps it\u2019s better to go to the beginning of it and seek a personal vote and then see whether that takes place or not. I\u2019m not suggesting how you do your job, but I just think it\u2019s quite unfair, if you have made a ruling and then you have reversed that ruling in the face of a point of order and then ruled on that ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002270e8639a103841b8a1e54b09646e402a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270e8639a103841b8a1e54b09646e402a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014I\u2019ve taken a ruling on the basis of the best advice I am going to get tonight. So I take your point, but the vote stands. The vote will stand. I will now report the bill without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022647c9b09e3324cbea0d9e7a0fd86ac68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022647c9b09e3324cbea0d9e7a0fd86ac68\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Winery Cellar Door Tasting) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e1dff4b883449ba96c92ce79168220b\u0022\u003EFair Trading (Gift Card Expiry) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022acd53acb4f8741a2ac2fdc8b825bbf6f\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u002229170cf72e4340c5b6bd826637f0bf15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229170cf72e4340c5b6bd826637f0bf15\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of Dan Bidois (National): I move, That the Fair Trading (Gift Card Expiry) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E It\u2019s an honour to open our second reading of the Fair Trading (Gift Card Expiry) Amendment Bill. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the whakapapa of this bill. This bill was originally brought in the name of the Hon Melissa Lee and is now being shepherded through by Dan Bidois. I\u2019d like to take the opportunity to congratulate Dan and his wife, Courtney, on the birth of their first child, Noah. Of course, Melissa Lee\u2019s ministerial responsibilities necessitated this transfer but the spirit of the bill remains, and that is to protect consumers and ensure fairness in our retail landscape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003ESo gift cards and vouchers have become quite a familiar part of our lives. It\u2019s a very convenient way to express our appreciation, celebrate occasions, or simply treat someone. Yet the joy of receiving a gift card can quickly turn bad if it expires before we get a chance to redeem it. So many Kiwis have experienced this firsthand. I know I have, and the statistics are sobering: one in five recipients loses out when they fail to redeem the full value of their gift card within the expiry date. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EConsumer New Zealand gave some great examples to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. One that really stuck in my mind was $1,500 worth of Mobil vouchers. Someone mistakenly thought that they had two years of expiry when, in fact, they only had 12 months. The person contacted Mobil, but they refused to honour the voucher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EAnother story was of a woman who received a $180 SkyCity gift card for Christmas in 2022, but due to family plans and illness, plans to use it had to be put on hold. Then when she tried to get an extension from SkyCity, her request was refused, even though, apparently, SkyCity now sells gift cards valid for three years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EI personally have quite an aversion to gift cards, because I fail to redeem them. I\u2019ve pointed out to my loved ones that it\u2019s my preference to never receive them, but I have gifted them on request or as part of a corporate gift. However, in my family, cold hard cash is the preference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a58e779271e440da8d772d444779846e\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Hear, hear! Cash is king!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228cb124bb0e04539b19da6bd403140ef\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. So prior to this Parliament, 12 submissions were received in the previous select committee, and in this parliamentary term, the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee reopened for submissions, and we heard from eight interested groups and individuals, and then we heard from four orally. So I\u2019d like to thank all of the submitters, who provided us with much more information to consider. And those considerations really helped us to improve the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EWe were very ably assisted in this process by officials from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. The Office of the Clerk also gave advice on the bill\u2019s legislative quality\u2014and, of course, Parliamentary Counsel Office. All of these officials were invaluable. Thank you so much for all of your support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003ESo the committee did make some amendments, which we think greatly improve the bill. Firstly, we clarified the definitions of \u201Ccards\u201D and \u201Cvouchers\u201D and also outlined some of the specific exclusions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003ESome of those exclusions include where a card or voucher is provided in substitution for returned goods, \u201Copen loop\u201D cards\u2014for example, cards that can be topped up; one, for example, is a Prezzy Card. Another exclusion is where cards are provided as part of a\u00A0customer loyalty programme. However, for an example, if that programme allows you to collect points and then exchange the points for a card, the card then would be subject to the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EAnother exclusion was where the card or voucher is provided as a fund-raising activity for a charity. Also, where there\u2019s a short-term event like a festival or a concert, those are not applied. We also thought that it might be possible that some devices could also work as a voucher or card\u2014for example, wristbands. In fact, any object could have a chip or a barcode attached to it, which could serve as a token for a voucher redeemable for gifts or services. So this provision prevents any attempt to avoid the expiry rules by providing a different object.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EWe decided that it should be an infringement offence to contravene the new sections of the Act and that fines not exceeding $10,000 should apply for an individual, or $30,000 for an organisation. Having it as an infringement notice means that each instance of a breach could be considered and its own penalties apply. We think that that would therefore provide a very stiff incentive to comply with the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EWe have allowed for a transition period so that providers can adjust to the rules and not inadvertently get stuck with pre-printed made cards. We expect that most providers who are able would start to comply with the law as soon as possible, and we heard through the submissions process that some are already doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EI was particularly interested in the submission from Consumer New Zealand. In 2016, they launched a gift card campaign and then, in 2022, they did a review of 61 gift cards. They found that 14 of them had 12-month expiry dates, one had an 18-month expiry, 19 of them had a two-year expiry, six of them had a three-year expiry, one had a four-year expiry, six of them had five-year expiries, and a whole 14 had no expiry date. So accounting practices in business are very important and gift cards can show up as a liability on businesses. So it was very important that there be opportunities for businesses to be able to work through their processes and transfer those liabilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EWe didn\u2019t have unanimous support for the bill on the committee, but there was a very clear majority support. We think that we\u2019ve made sensible changes to the bill, and allowing that no gift cards should be provided that are not within the three-year expiry will make very useful changes for consumers and more people will be able to fully redeem their vouchers. We will not be stuck in the situation where tens of millions of dollars of gift cards are going begging each year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003EThis is a win for consumers in New Zealand and this is another way that this Government is getting this country back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b010ac50fe294571aea67bca23745f27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b010ac50fe294571aea67bca23745f27\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002234dc25dc7c354226b8095ec79d26b7ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234dc25dc7c354226b8095ec79d26b7ae\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise in support of this bill. I\u2019d like to extend, first of all, my congratulations to Melissa Lee, assuming that this will go through. She has been my competitor in Mt Albert, and I have a great deal of warmth towards her. She\u2019s a good friend and I\u2019m pleased that this has come through for her. I\u2019d also like to congratulate Dan Bidois, who has just had a baby\u2014and I didn\u2019t catch the name, but I\u2019ll definitely be finding out\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022730cc48068ab420982d288dc5040937d\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Noah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279290e3468ff4de280a378f5a4d31b26\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: Noah\u2014congratulations to Dan and his wife. That\u2019s really lovely. I\u2019m sure he\u2019s just feeling the full effects of the train that just ran over him!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI now want to turn to the subject of this bill and why the Labour Party is supporting it. I want to contrast it a little bit with the surprise I got\u2014that ACT isn\u2019t supporting a bill like this. It is interesting that that\u2019s where the line is for a party like ACT, because this is, in a way, all about freedom, and it\u2019s about consumer rights. I would have thought there was some common ground there, and I\u2019m disappointed that we aren\u2019t in a unanimous position on a bill like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThis is a bill about gift cards, where people pay real, hard cash and then they find that they can\u2019t use it anymore. I, along with the majority of people on the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, accept that there are limits and there are balances to be found. People in the select committee agreed that three years was a reasonable time for an expiry, in a bill like this, because people at some point need to get it off their books. That\u2019s a commercial reality. But before that time, we decided, it was not reasonable for people to have these cards expire. Consumer New Zealand had done research in 2022, and they\u2019d found that there were a lot of losses to real-life people, and, right now, those are real-life losses. They are real. When we talk about the cost of living, if in fact somebody has petrol vouchers that they can\u2019t renew, that\u2019s not fair, it\u2019s not reasonable, and it\u2019s a total windfall to somebody to be able to bank money that they have taken and they\u2019ve had the use of and then not actually give the product.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ENow I\u2019m going to tell a little story I told my colleagues in the select committee, about an event that happened to me, because I think it\u2019s important to another part of the bill. My ex-husband bought me a balloon voucher, and I was to go on the hot air balloon\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d672f97db664d1e968c9f1d280df779\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Hot air balloon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2601b90402b4e55978b5a1119272bbe\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: A hot air balloon. It was pretty glamorous and I was pretty excited and it cost quite a lot of money. I never got to use that voucher, because every time I called the balloon company, I was told that there was bad weather and I wouldn\u2019t be able to use it. I had little babies, and I would arrange my life around this damn thing so I would have a babysitter and I would be doing the hard yards. Now, imagine Dan Bidois in that position right now. He\u2019s got the baby, he\u2019s arranged the babysitter, and the balloon doesn\u2019t go up. And, actually, in that scenario, three years is not a very long time. I never got to use the voucher, I never got the experience, and there was no comeback on that company because there were expiries involved. And, actually, it\u2019s not a very long time for a large amount of money like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EWe came to a point where we were talking, in the bill, about penalties and what should apply in this situation. The recommendation was actually quite low penalties, and one of the contributions I made was to say no, the penalties need to be significant here. This is stuff that will be used and will be calculated. If people do not comply with the law as we make it, then they should be up for a decent penalty here. And we\u2019ve got a penalty in which was the original penalty that had been drafted in, and it was $10,000 for a person and $30,000 for a company that exploits this, because people do, unfortunately, exploit these things, and we need to make sure that these fines are real for people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I am looking at, at the moment, actually, is the issue around white- collar fraud. It costs this country so much more, not tenfold, hundredfold more, than benefit fraud\u2014white-collar fraud. So we have to always look at our penalties and our fines and make sure that it does not pay to be duplicitous, to be fraudulent. When something like this comes up, we need to take it seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EOne of the contributions that we made as the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee was to make sure that this is not a wet bus ticket. This will be complied with. People will take it seriously, and they\u2019ll remember the consumer. They\u2019ll remember that it\u2019s hard earned. And when that happened, when I had little children, it was actually quite a big deal to my family because it was worth about $500. And it really did rob a family of something else\u2014it robbed them of an experience. And it hurt us. I hope that the ACT Party remembers that there will be people way more hurt than that, because it will be grocery vouchers, and it will be petrol vouchers, and it will be the grandma who scraped the money together and bought the Prezzy Card. And all those things are now covered, and I\u2019m glad for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESo I don\u2019t think this is the biggest law in the world, but I think we can see that it\u2019s an important definer of our values. It is remembering ordinary people and the price they pay, and remembering that it\u2019s not about big business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI will just have a look here and read you what the differing view is, of the ACT Party, on this. They say, \u201CACT believes that we must leave it to businesses to decide the length of their gift cards or vouchers, to allow them to manage their services or offerings to meet the market demand and their changing circumstances.\u201D I\u2019d ask the people here tonight who are from ACT to think: in that situation, how does that work for the grandma who has paid the money for the present card? How does it work for the person who has the petrol voucher? How is the balance struck in this situation, if this is what we do?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI think the people who are supporting this bill tonight have something to contribute in terms of reminding all the parties in this House that this is not a religion; this is a pragmatic place. The role of Government is sometimes to come in and go, \u201CNah. Yeah, nah. That\u2019s not going to happen. That\u2019s not actually businesses managing themselves legitimately; that\u2019s people\u2014sometimes shysters\u2014pushing it too far.\u201D So we need to put consumers first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI am pleased to support this bill because it puts consumers first. It strikes a balance. It talks about three years, which I think is about right. It strikes a balance. We need to set aside some of the ideologies that we have and think\u2014absolutely with common sense\u2014about what will matter to our thriving businesses and what will matter to our people in New Zealand, what will matter to their wellbeing. That\u2019s an important thing for us to remember that we have in common. I would ask that all of us consider that tonight. I am very pleased to be in the majority in the select committee report, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u0022462f10fbdfd749c09fb813a3b45396ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022462f10fbdfd749c09fb813a3b45396ab\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. I am here to speak on the Fair Trading (Gift Card Expiry) Amendment Bill, acknowledging this is my first contribution to the House after my maiden speech. Congratulations to Minister Lee on the bill\u2014it\u2019s very rare to have your member\u2019s bill be drawn, let alone make it through the full process of the legislation. I commend Economic Development, Science and Innovation that went through this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225789b59dcd2d4ff9b059be79445a7a57\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: What a good select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224deb20d6aa0848c79a65d37c25c0c4db\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: What a good select committee\u2014that\u2019s right, absolutely agree. That was actually one of the very first select committees that I was subbed on to, and from the high quality of the discussion and the calibre of the members\u2014particularly my fellow Dunedin-based MP Scott Willis\u2014I have full confidence that the select committee did a fantastic job on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI support this bill because this bill is very aligned with Green values, and my values are Green values. One of the Green values that we talk about is fairness. Consumer protection exists because we know that there\u2019s a power differential that different contexts create between different parties. In this case, it\u2019s between companies and consumers. We\u2019ve heard the stats from Consumer New Zealand: there\u2019s over $250 million floating around of gift cards; $10 million a year of value of gift cards is lost\u2014that\u2019s immense\u2014and one in five New Zealanders is stuck with an expired gift card. This is a bill that affects a majority of people\u201477 percent of New Zealanders regularly receive gift cards. I must confess, like the member Vanessa Weenink, I\u2019m not a fan of gift cards. I think people should really just give cash, or, if someone\u2019s close enough to get a gift card, you just give them an actual present. But that is a personal view; that is not a Green Party view. My personal experience with gift cards is, as I said, I don\u2019t use them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons why this bill is so good is that it\u2019s an example of people fighting for collective change. I really acknowledge the campaign that Consumer New Zealand led which helped kick this thing off\u2014they launched their gift card campaign in 2016. This is an example of why it\u2019s actually important to prioritise collective action over individuals, and why, sometimes, regulation is so important. Because Consumer New Zealand wrote to 14 companies that offered gift cards, and guess how many actually changed! Only one actually ended up changing their policy from, I think, 12 months and then they extended it to two years, and then they ended up reverting back anyway. So, essentially, none actually ended up changing their mind. That shows how important regulation actually is in addressing market failures, because, essentially, when consumers don\u2019t end up being able to spend their gift cards, that\u2019s a massive market failure. And that ends up with surplus being lost from the consumer and with businesses pocketing the difference, and that\u2019s quite unfair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EOne of the values that the Green Party abides by is also consensus. Obviously, there\u2019s parts of the bill where we would have loved the bill to go further. And I echo the concerns raised by Consumer New Zealand when they asked to have more robust consumer protections\u2014I think they wanted five years, for example. So let me quote from the submission that they wrote: they said that \u201CIn Ireland, for example, traders: cannot insist a gift card or voucher is spent in one transaction; must provide change in the form of cash, electronic transfer or another voucher if the entire value isn\u2019t spent in one transaction; cannot limit the number of vouchers that a person can redeem in one transaction; cannot prevent a consumer from selling or transferring the voucher to another person; must clearly communicate the expiry date on the voucher itself or another durable medium. We urge the Committee to include similar rules in the Bill\u201D. I\u2019m pleased that some of these contributions were picked up in the bill. For example, the expiry date was a change that the wise select committee rightfully made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EAnother thing about consensus is that it\u2019s good to get everyone on the same page whenever possible, and we heard from other submitters such as Retail New Zealand and the booksellers association that they supported the broad aims of the bill. So, in fact, when members in ACT are concerned about business not being aligned, well, when Retail New Zealand and the booksellers association, in consultation with their members, have said that they would support the aims of the bill, then it\u2019s something to perhaps think about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EAnother thing to consider is that no legislation is ever perfect but if bills kind of take us forward, sometimes you don\u2019t get everything you want. But the bills do have a role in kind of playing as consensus dealmakers in helping constructive legislation like this progress through the House. So, with that in mind, I want to thank all the submitters who gave their time to the bill. I want to thank the select committee who considered this bill, and all members of the House for their contributions. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3b3b124106a45a0a522e53c0bd3d502\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3b3b124106a45a0a522e53c0bd3d502\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity. I\u2019m taking this call on behalf of the ACT Party to oppose the Fair Trading (Gift Card Expiry) Amendment Bill. As this is the second reading, I would like to reflect on the select committee process. In the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, we received submissions and we also heard from submitters, so I want to thank all those submitters. I want also to acknowledge those submitters who appeared before the select committee to speak to their submission. I want to also thank the team of the clerk of the committee, I want to thank all the advisers, Parliamentary Counsel Office, everyone who has been involved in bringing this bill to the shape that it is. I also want to acknowledge all the members on the committee and especially the member in charge of this bill. I want to also congratulate Dan Bidois and his wife for their newborn, and we are really looking forward to seeing Dan back after he has enjoyed his parental leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIn his absence, this bill is going through the second reading, so I\u2019m sure he will be watching this from home. And what I want to say to you, Dan, is that we do not support this bill, but we can see the intention behind this bill. The intention behind this bill is to see that the customers are able to\u2014or consumers, those who are presented with a gift card\u2014are able to redeem that gift card and so that they get enough time, and that is the time of three years. Until now, we know that businesses don\u2019t have a fixed time, businesses decide what the length of the time of expiry of a gift card should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIn the select committee, we actually made quite a few changes, and there were discussions around quite a few things. The main discussion was around what is a gift card and what should be included in the definition of a \u201Cgift card\u201D. We talked about cards and vouchers which are supplied in substitution for return goods. We talked about Prezzy Cards\u2014we wanted to clarify if they are gift cards or not, and that was clarified in the select committee. We also wanted to talk about gift cards supplied through customer loyalty programmes, and here we were talking about, like, Flybuys is a loyalty program where you get a card, but then using those points you can buy a gift card\u2014whether it would apply to that or not. So we just wanted to make those clarifications. We also wanted to clarify regarding any cards or vouchers which are given for a time-limited event. We also discussed cards that are used for transport and utilities, if they should be included or not, second-hand consumer sales of gift cards, and also how to deal with cards which are sold for raising funds in charitable function.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo going through all these things and the way people pass on gift cards or gift vouchers in so many different formats for so many different reasons, it just shows that it is a complicated area. And our reason the ACT Party is opposing this bill is because we really believe that it is something that the businesses should decide because it is about their liability, it is about their financial sustainability. No matter what length of time is given, there will always be some consumers who will not be able to redeem that gift card. There is no guarantee that if there is a longer expiry date, all of the consumers\u2014those who receive gift cards\u2014will be able to redeem that gift card. And in the select committee process, what was really interesting was that, yes, we reported back this bill, saying that the length of expiry should be three years, and, yes, some submitters thought it should be three years; some submitters thought it should be five years. One of the submitters who has been talked about\u2014Consumer New Zealand\u2014in their submission, they said that \u201CWe urge the Committee to consider extending the three-year minimum to five years to ensure consumers don\u2019t miss out on what is rightfully theirs.\u201D So it wasn\u2019t like every submitter thought that having this fixed time line of three years is going to work for everyone. So there were views where people thought there should be no expiry date. There were views where people thought, actually, there should be a longer expiry date. So there was not one point that came through all of the submitters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ENow, we also heard about Retail New Zealand\u2019s submission. I would like to highlight what Retail New Zealand said. So these submitters\u2014yes, I want to acknowledge that they supported the intent of this bill, but there was something important in these submissions that is important for me to highlight. Retail New Zealand\u2019s submission said this\u2014this is in their submission, and I\u2019m reading out from their submission\u2014\u201CRetail NZ surveyed our membership in the preparation of this submission and found that over half of members that sell gift cards have an expiry date of one year from the initial sale date. Retailers report that most gift cards are redeemed within six months of being issued.\u201D\u2014\u201CMost\u201D, it says. Most retailers have said that most gift cards are redeemed within the six months of being issued. It\u2019s a very important point which should be noted, and was noted by the ACT Party. It also says, \u201CWhile gift cards have benefits, extended periods of time between when a card is issued and when it is redeemed can create complexity for retailers. Over half of retailers that sell gift cards report difficulties dealing with the treatment of gift cards in accounting. This is particularly an issue for small and medium sized businesses.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo when we are putting through any legislation, we have to take into consideration all kinds of businesses, small and big businesses. Here, this is what we heard from Retail New Zealand. This is what Retail New Zealand\u2019s submission says, very clearly, that, yes, there are complexities they have to deal with if the expiry date is long. Again, the other point they made was this: that there should be a transition time of 12 months so that the retailers get enough time to transition to the expiry date which will be set by this bill\u2014that is, of three years. So, obviously, it\u2019s not something that can happen overnight, so we are creating this additional burden on businesses and they need time to adjust to this new expiry date. This submitter said that it should be 12 months. It\u2019s not just one submitter that said that there should be time available for businesses to transition to this expiry date setting if this bill goes through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EThe other thing we heard from\u2014this is like not just the small businesses but some big companies also said that they want a transition time and some suggested 12 months; some suggested 18 months. So this is really important for us to note: that it is something that we are actually adding to what businesses are already doing, and this is not going to add to their efficiency or their productivity. As far as consumers are concerned, as long as the consumer can clearly see what the expiry date is; as long as the consumer is clearly told or conveyed what the expiry date is of the gift card that is purchased, then it is up to the consumer to use that gift card within that expiry date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EHere, to imply that somehow businesses are not doing the right thing by giving an expiry\u00A0date of six months or 12 months, I reject that notion. That is not the case, because businesses\u00A0know how they operate; businesses know what their marketing strategy should be. Gift cards are used as a tool in their marketing strategy. They want to see that people\u2014those\u00A0who take gift cards\u2014when they come back, they might be buying something that will actually cost more than the value of the gift card. Also, they might expect these customers to come back and become their regular customers because they have been given a gift card of their store or whatever the service they provide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003ESo, overall, gift cards are part of businesses\u2019 marketing strategy. We should leave it to businesses how they use this gift card as a tool in their marketing strategy. That is why the ACT Party is not supporting this bill. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00227acde7ba97a942dc9978e9cd41af7031\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227acde7ba97a942dc9978e9cd41af7031\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow. A wonderful learning day. Good night.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 10.01 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240529f5a1832d0bfa4537926f72081da31f50000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"