"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f1586cdbf654458396b19c51eb950d24\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 22 AUGUST 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fdd59ca4e63440f880a74af020fc9519\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 22 AUGUST 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000002\u0022\u003EThe Deputy Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222523744d67be40f9952d79dda22d29be\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002211efaf9e5e0946259e3979cd41ee3275\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a235bdc5d0b44ad4ad17d834279c18a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a235bdc5d0b44ad4ad17d834279c18a8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d259c6cdc74a4d46b03f8e0ed836e3d0\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022efcb099e13a2425faef82de51614990f\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u00224c54224de0704bcca56735877cbec8ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c54224de0704bcca56735877cbec8ea\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week, the House will consider the first reading of the Social Workers Registration Amendment Bill, continue the committee stage of the Corrections Amendment Bill, and consider the third readings of the Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill and the Resource Management (Extended Duration of Coastal Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Bill. On Tuesday, we start the Estimates debate with the debates on finance and the children\u2019s portfolio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022556cf5e9fe8e42979fc77c010d0eaef5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022556cf5e9fe8e42979fc77c010d0eaef5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E I wonder if the Leader of the House could let us know what he proposes doing with the Treaty principles bill when introduced. In particular, will it be referred to a select committee, and, if so, for how long?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022df83b2be0dba4f9abc660ddad61abcd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df83b2be0dba4f9abc660ddad61abcd6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s difficult to comment on a bill that is not on the Order Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b2adc3c5b77049d9969e0f1d87dd5d42\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc1a71cde45a43da86ca39fc53fa3b42\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002298c8e7f6fee44a45b86d9f0ef2f6e8f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298c8e7f6fee44a45b86d9f0ef2f6e8f2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022d609f98ad5dc4ee99580b79a8cccab20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d609f98ad5dc4ee99580b79a8cccab20\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Denis Orme requesting that the House urge St John Ambulance to keep the current ambulance and Lifepak defibrillator at Rawene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002255719172a7b349f4a091bbb8c68b2f63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255719172a7b349f4a091bbb8c68b2f63\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. No papers have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00223d435a7b371a42e1baaf3d6c57b831fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d435a7b371a42e1baaf3d6c57b831fe\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Reports of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EInternational treaty examination of the agreement on the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework for Prosperity, the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework for Prosperity Agreement Relating to Supply Chain Resilience, the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework for Prosperity Agreement Relating to a Clean Economy, and the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework for Prosperity Agreement Relating to a Fair Economy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EInternational treaty examination of the Second Protocol to Amend the Agreement Establishing the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area, and of the Exchange of Letters reaffirming the Agreement between the Government of New Zealand and the Government of Australia on the Application of the Agreement Establishing the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220af1142d188d43448e6c64042e15675e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220af1142d188d43448e6c64042e15675e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those reports are set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226687b4be66a84e029e84f96af2bfc26b\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cda833c9414546d2bfb7f18fa6afcb3b\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b3780e00f174cd3939737a25bb9c5c6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022 data-id=\u002259d077d506494c34bc37a1a23d7152cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259d077d506494c34bc37a1a23d7152cc\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen about the cost of living?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022979ecc37b1b34dca83f1492551b622c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022979ecc37b1b34dca83f1492551b622c2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, the Reserve Bank\u2019s Monetary Policy Committee published its Monetary Policy Statement where it discussed recent economic and financial developments and their implications. The Reserve Bank is confident that after three long years, inflation is now expected to fall back within the 1 to 3 percent target band in the September quarter. In other words, the era of extreme price increases is over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254386b725fdc459586d0fef8e271b19d\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: What does this mean for Kiwi households?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230ebfcebef794a558c1cc9360c622d76\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, getting inflation under control for the first time in three years has a number of benefits for New Zealand households. With wages growing faster than prices for the first nine months of this year, real incomes are finally increasing again after three years of going backwards. With the cost of living no longer rising at such a frightening pace, including annual food prices actually falling for the first time in six years, Kiwi budgets will stretch just a little bit further. With the inflation genie finally back in the bottle, the Reserve Bank last week cut the official cash rate for the first time in four years with more cuts projected, meaning lower mortgage costs for thousands of Kiwi homeowners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228de44b3d3b2049c08398f1f4baeb6ac4\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Government helped bring down the cost of living?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c7b3eecd1f4c1392874349a62150d2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the sky-high inflation we\u2019ve seen over the last few years was caused by too much money chasing too few goods. That was a result of the Reserve Bank cutting interest rates to stimulate the economy during COVID and\u2014despite the Opposition\u2019s denials\u2014of the previous Government increasing spending from around $80 billion in the 2017-18 financial year to $138 billion in 2023-24. Since coming into office, the Government has taken many steps. We\u2019ve refocused the Reserve Bank on a single objective of fighting inflation. We stopped adding unnecessary costs on businesses, like the ute tax, the regional fuel tax, and tenant taxes. We\u2019ve reduced economic bottlenecks and cut red tape by restoring 90-day trials, abolishing fair pay agreements, and fixing the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act. More importantly, we are putting financial discipline back at the heart of Government spending. With our recent Budget being the tightest in the past five years, with an operating allowance of $3.2 billion and savings worth $24\u00A0billion over the forecast period, we are doing our bit to bring an end to Labour\u2019s cost of living crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1aa86e9eeb346808cd9763dc8b2bac6\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: What other support has the Government provided to Kiwi families dealing with this cost of living crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed6ffd90618f451dbff20d4e9c7f4e13\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to playing our part in bringing down inflation, we were also able to deliver tax relief to hard-working Kiwi households, including the first reduction in personal income tax in 14 years, and 83 percent of New Zealanders will benefit from this Government\u2019s tax relief package. For more than 100,000 low and middle income families who have childcare costs, we delivered FamilyBoost, which means those families can claim back up to 25 percent of their early childhood fees to a maximum of $150 a fortnight. An end to the era of extreme price increases, mortgage costs coming down, food prices stabilising, income tax relief, and more support for families with children\u2014these are the things that can be achieved when a Government stops treating taxpayers like a bottomless ATM, reins in the wasteful spending, puts a stop to the fantasy projects and white elephants, and starts spending taxpayers\u2019 money as carefully as households do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002247acb4afa3c7482d94f5e9e16de83239\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Energy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u002262ba5e94f4bd4fa7a66786f81f6a3533\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262ba5e94f4bd4fa7a66786f81f6a3533\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Energy: Has he received advice on the cost of purchasing liquefied natural gas from overseas markets; if so, what is the estimated price range provided in that advice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298d6c38e7b764b38bef741f8d873644e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the Minister, I have been advised that the answer to this question is likely to be a longer response than usual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00222d50c7298f2a430fbe2612c06eb6d11a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d50c7298f2a430fbe2612c06eb6d11a\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. New Zealand needs more energy, and this Government is currently receiving a range of advice on how to stabilise energy prices and achieve affordable, secure energy. Importing liquefied natural gas (LNG) is one of the options currently being explored to support the electricity market during times when peaking, or firming, is needed. Advice I have received is that the estimated price range for importing LNG to New Zealand using the spot market is between $17 a gigajoule and $24 a gigajoule. The price range is well below the New Zealand gas spot price, which traded at an average of $55.27 a gigajoule on Wednesday, 14 August 2024\u2014an all-time high. If we use a potential price of $25 a gigajoule for importing LNG, this equates to an electricity wholesale price of about $260\u00A0a megawatt hour, which is well below the $808 a megawatt hour average wholesale electricity spot price for the week ending 11 August, and the $457 a megawatt hour average wholesale spot price for the week ending 18\u00A0August. One of the advantages of importing LNG is that it puts a cap on peak prices. LNG prices are currently cheaper than current natural gas prices, which adds competition in the fuel supply for electricity peaking, ensuring that New Zealand can have more competitive electricity prices and critical supply of generation when the wind isn\u2019t blowing, the sun isn\u2019t shining, and we\u2019re facing a dry hydrological year. The Government\u2019s role is to reduce barriers to the supply of secure and affordable energy so that New Zealand can have competitive electricity prices, and this is important, particularly in the situation we have right now, which is facing the driest hydrological year since 1992, with less wind generation than forecast, and a 25.8 percent downgrade in gas production this year, following a 12 percent downgrade last year. We need more energy, and the Government is focused on ensuring the security of supply in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275ef893db96d45149fd762a85efc5378\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: What advice has he received on the cost of building the infrastructure required for New Zealand to be able to import LNG?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022354253505c5c435b9353c791cfbe5acf\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s been a range of estimates. Ultimately, this Government is focused on what the barriers are to this issue. We are seeking advice around what those potential barriers are. Ultimately, the market is responsible for ensuring the security, alongside the Electricity Authority, and we want to ensure that the Government is removing barriers so we can have the energy that is critically important, so that we can have competitive prices for electricity in New Zealand to keep our businesses and our households avoiding the significant prices that are currently flowing through the spot market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee295687e86b4c4b9403bcb18e51476b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: What other solutions or technologies other than LNG has he sought advice on to plug the current energy shortage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221014b2963d79449fa74ff0c579b4fbe7\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there is a range of different options. Some of the things that are already taking place are playing a role. For example, Transpower this morning announced they are bringing forward contingent supply of water in the lakes, which is going to play a role. There is potentially more that needs to be done around some of those rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b074695438514bc1a820269683cf4707\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Coal\u2014coal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d90a070d677d43f3a1b04bce16374030\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Coal is playing a role in terms of the coal-fired power station at Genesis, but I would make the point: up until Methanex shutting down last week, we had 450 megawatts of gas-powered generation which was available but not able to operate because there was not enough gas in the system. We need enough fuel to be able to supply the energy system so we can have the security of supply that New Zealand businesses and households need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289ba0d955dbe4815a54223594bd39fea\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Has he sought advice on how the cost and time line of building LNG facilities compares with the rapid deployment of solar batteries and flexibility products to plug our current energy shortage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e84674387bf4516b5e4ba33298f7ae8\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019re receiving a range of advice on a number of things that can be done. Ultimately, what we need is enough energy to be able to support our economy with competitively priced electricity for our business and our households, and this Government is agnostic around what the fuel is, whether it\u2019s sun, wind, geothermal, hydro\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba1d287ff50a45e48df4647ac91afef0\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Coal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4b12bd3fec24f5ab61a0d1336081233\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014gas, and, if it needs to be, coal. We would prefer gas because it has half the emissions, but if we don\u2019t have enough gas it will be coal, and that\u2019s the legacy that we\u2019ve had left behind by the last Government. So on this side of the House, we want to ensure the security of supply and are getting rid of the roadblocks which are currently in the place of building the generation capacity New Zealand needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253977b5ce05349feac0c7976de222064\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. I am asking very straight and specific questions. The Minister gave a long answer, but what I\u2019d specifically asked was had he sought advice on the rapid deployment of solar batteries and flexibility products, and he did not answer whether that was the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa546f7bf1d14ad0b3af2d625b6cabd6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I believe the Minister said that he was looking at a range of products across the board, so we would hope that those would be included in that. If the Minister wants to clarify that, yes, those things are included in the range of things he\u2019s looking at\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae5bf3701ade40ca9ddf48322253b1e9\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: No, I didn\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022470c3a8d9e4a4e589eda26f6e99577f8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No? OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dc7b3f173b44d06920f88db9dd67b44\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Has he sought advice on the flow-on industrial impacts of the estimate that at current international prices, buying gas from overseas to make up the domestic supply shortfall would cost $11 billion to $14 billion by 2035?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff30c1d28ef144fcbdc3e2dbbe9c89e7\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said in my primary question, if we use a potential price of $25 a gigajoule for imported LNG, this equates to an electricity wholesale price of about $260 a megawatt hour, which is well below the $808 megawatt hour average wholesale price for spot price for the week ending 11 August and $457 a megawatt average wholesale spot price for the week ending 18 August. So the point is that New Zealand needs security of supply, and if we don\u2019t have enough gas, well, we\u2019re going to be burning coal. Gas has half the emissions. It\u2019s a cleaner fuel. It can be used to peak and firm electricity supply from renewable sources. It is critically important, and we are going to ensure the security of supply for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf35641eef534678be430cc82881d029\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister, given the multifaceted issue and energy crisis that he\u2019s dealing with: does the failure to stop the closing of Marsden Point in any way help or otherwise look anything but irresponsible?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c88dd6444d604f04bbea0e61f72dc91c\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: What New Zealand needs is a flexible supply of energy into the New Zealand market and we need to also make sure that we\u2019ve got the domestic production of fuel, as well, and that\u2019s why the work that the Hon Shane Jones is working around in actually making sure we can explore for fuels here in New Zealand is critically important to security of supply in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218ebc8abd6dc488fbc4cd271ccd41033\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with Andrew Eagles, who said, \u201CNew gas discoveries will not plug the shortfall. The existing fields are producing less than expected despite billions of dollars in investment. Offshore exploration prior to the ban was drying up due to lack of finds. If new exploration is undertaken and if new discoveries are made, it will be at least a decade until they are producing at scale, which likely still wouldn\u2019t be enough. Importing fossil gas would require billions in investment in infrastructure, increase emissions, and expose New Zealand to international price shocks.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221461f463a506481f99ed9dac4d0cadbd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. This is question time. That is a long diatribe from somebody else, that\u2019s meant to be posing as a question. Surely, that member could have truncated or abbreviated that question to keep the process of the House operating much more efficiently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a3e2c1131524cb392943637b9e1cf61\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Peters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d92ee25530ca4946a63d86d8e24650e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Madam Speaker, it was a direct quote. I wasn\u2019t going to truncate or rework someone else\u2019s words, and given the very long answer we had to the primary question from the Minister\u2014much of which was not necessary to answer the question\u2014I think that was actually quite a short question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2379eb66457409d8d8d834110b3e01f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, and, look, when a member is quoting, it is important that the context of the quote is in scope. So that question is OK, in my ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227574acbc3cec4013bee0e554a9c17172\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that was quite a confused question, because on one hand it was saying that it\u2019s going to take a long time to get the gas that we need from indigenous sources, and yet, on the other side, we shouldn\u2019t be importing it from offshore. Well, I would just like to say that I agree with the Climate Change Commission, which has a demonstration path which says that 0.9 terawatt hours of electricity generation coming from gas will be required in 2050. So we need the supply of natural gas. We\u2019d prefer it came from indigenous sources, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re going to be repealing the oil and gas exploration ban, but because of what the last Government\u2019s policies did, we\u2019re in a position where we are actively having to explore the option of importing LNG for the security of supply of energy and electricity in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2ab2a5ee2fe4840a725474e1037fdfd\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Given the Minister is now exploring the importation of liquefied natural gas, what lessons are to be learnt through the period of time over the last five years, where the domestic gas industry was vilified and destroyed by the member who is asking questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284939cf3fa804a33b4effb57f502f271\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t want this to turn into an attack on the Opposition. So if the Minister has a constructive way of answering it, the question about the last five years needs to be answered in a constructive way and not in an attack. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bab69e5613f470daa70ec0b37a96f76\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the answer to that question\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0bc703107094b4983d26e62bb4f1ca1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t hear the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295008930e9034b59a3b3acc082201d1d\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The answer to that question is that we need a secure energy system in New Zealand and we need a bipartisan approach from the Opposition to support the exploration of natural gas so we can have a secure energy and electricity system in New Zealand, and I encourage them to support this Government and that ambition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1973ed3525a45e6878879a73d45c2ba\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: How does the importation of LNG, or the option being pursued, rhyme with the Just Transition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279ad29e2fabe4519af4968748dc53be8\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said, the Climate Change Commission has made it clear that 0.9 terawatt hours of electricity generation in 2050 will be needed from gas. So we need the gas supply to ensure that we can firm our electricity sector. When the wind\u2019s not blowing, the sun\u2019s not shining, and we face a dry hydrological year, we need the gas peaking and firming capacity to be able to do that. That last Government\u2019s approach was simply to have a lake built in a mountain. We have got far more practical solutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac658e68d0e14468a359203f49d50e77\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: In the exploration of this option, what reports has he seen about the decrease of our sovereign reputation as a consequence of foolish decisions of the past?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a223e1c00f24aa0a46f425149489997\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The number one issue which is raised is the fact that since those decisions were made, sovereign risk has increased, and that has made it harder to attract the investment needed in the security of supply in New Zealand. So, once again, I invite the Opposition to join with this Government so that we can ensure secure and affordable energy prices for New Zealand households and businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b2b559d03394a2b97c0010953862d48\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u002258a21dd00bcf4932af89eb24f33e9782\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258a21dd00bcf4932af89eb24f33e9782\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: What feedback, if any, has she received about Oranga Tamariki\u2019s work to ensure taxpayer money is being directed to where it can achieve the best outcomes for children and young people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u0022113a47119c814ac18435ab4060b20085\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022113a47119c814ac18435ab4060b20085\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E I received the following email from someone who works in the sector: \u201CI know from my own experience as a family criminal youth lawyer that the media often get things wrong. However, I feel the negative spin that is being put on these proposals completely lacks merit and comes from a place of ignorance. Clearly those complaining don\u2019t know what is happening in agencies such as Oranga Tamariki, or they are agencies who have been milking the system for years and now that\u2019s being brought to an end. A significant portion of work I do involves OT and the care of children, and I have been appalled over the past few years at how much taxpayer money has been wasted on agencies that make big plans yet deliver nothing but sometimes a glorified babysitting service. It was your proposal that gave us a bit of hope.\u201D This is the reason that Oranga Tamariki needs to focus on outcomes where the money makes the most difference so we can assure taxpayers and workers within the sector that the money is going towards the best outcomes for children and young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f117b07f3b461aa2d0b4f0e70d9e46\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: What other feedback has she received from people working in the sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f04bfc706ed34961bafd70190cead9f7\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Another piece of correspondence I have received from the sector reads as follows: \u201CThe more those agencies and the other side of the House complain, the more confident Karen and her team should feel that they are on the right track. I believe it should be a condition of all OT funding contracts that agencies are required to identify up front their targets for outputs and outcomes achievement under funding contracts. I further believe that they should be required to report back to OT annually on what they have actually achieved. As someone who has worked in the sector, I have seen gross inefficiency and ineffectiveness in many of these organisations.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022170a68a22b78422cbc546c29d462cfc8\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: What is Oranga Tamariki (OT) trying to achieve by taking a more rigorous approach to investing taxpayer money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eb94124e46642e2a9648a1b10ebcc3f\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I want to assure New Zealanders that Oranga Tamariki is not closing down providers. Some providers have funding from multiple services and multiple agencies. Oranga Tamariki has identified services that are either underdelivered, duplicated, or could have been delivered by other providers or agencies. Providers will still be funded for the other services that they provide. I\u2019ve asked Oranga Tamariki to take a more rigorous approach to contracting to ensure the $500 million worth of services that it funds each year gets to where it will have the greatest impact. Under the last Government, OT was allowing providers who were underdelivering on contracts to keep unused funding, they were funding services that weren\u2019t core business, and they were duplicating services in various parts of New Zealand. Some people seem to believe that we should keep giving money to organisations for services that haven\u2019t been delivered. That will only put more children at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df3ee08f9b834fc39262abbb8bcd9b6a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was a long answer. I just will say that if I\u2019m having a little trouble hearing the Minister, I\u2019m sure that the Opposition members are having trouble hearing her answers as well. The Hon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022963ccabeed634428a57ce9bb91954480\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcebc4b5ad284a1c9f7b0739aad8dd19\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Questions will be heard in silence, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220499db65728e4b7082a9c69ffb54ab5d\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she received about Oranga Tamariki\u2019s funding decisions for children and young people from the Chief Children\u2019s Commissioner; the Independent Children\u2019s Monitor; Social Service Providers Aotearoa, representing 200\u00A0members; the New Zealand Council of Christian Social Services, representing 250 organisations; E Tipu E Rea; Tai Poutini Whanau Po Kite Ata Trust; Family Start Nelson; Franklin Family Support Services; Women\u2019s Support Motueka; North Shore Women\u2019s Centre; Manukau Friendship House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e0b09624f84b38bc2f3d5663eed3da\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a very long question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6473d4e8021484f912b47a10120744e\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Homebuilders West Coast Trust\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eabee31905b46838b6a95cd3218010e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think we\u2019ve had enough examples.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecb8379c1dc44fb882dc303f3955b67c\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Presbyterian Support Canterbury; and the many, many other valued community services across the country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222df35cb282c74f57a1f3e124b25e75ad\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I think that is a question that should be put in writing so it can get a substantive answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a39bd2df1de84505af7e840eeabf00d2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00225c1c85a7d84a42fab5bed61c6500fb35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c1c85a7d84a42fab5bed61c6500fb35\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, Madam Speaker. Does she agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s statement, \u201Cwe have delivered lower inflation\u201D; if so, what specifically can she point to in the August Monetary Policy Statement that supports the claim that her Government has caused lower inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00227b5c9b03fefb4075951c625c06ed15b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b5c9b03fefb4075951c625c06ed15b7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and I can point the member specifically to page 51 of the Monetary Policy Statement, which shows annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation of 6.9 percent in March 2022, 7.3 percent in June 2022, 7.2\u00A0percent in September 2022, 7.2 percent in December 2022. Gosh! Those are high numbers. The table then shows inflation dropping to a much lower level with annual CPI inflation being 3.3 percent in the last quarter and forecast to be 2.3 percent in the current quarter, which is within the target band.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224966f052aa4d4e96bc35d9922853beb8\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Reserve Bank statement that \u201CSpending reductions in the public sector will reduce inflationary pressure, and income tax threshold changes will increase inflationary pressure. The net impact for monetary policy is expected to be small and highly uncertain.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264a0cf94c8144cf181b453c103e9a27c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I agree that fiscal restraint and spending reductions in the public sector are reducing inflationary pressure, and I agree that these were not things that were in place under the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e96f0ffc3f149ac9ed40c78c3601733\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is the real reason why the Reserve Bank had to unexpectedly cut rates because, as the BNZ chief economist Mike Jones has said, the updated forecast reflected \u201Cextraordinary weakness\u201D being seen in the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022532a7d5855644d8cae3e87f17cef6ec8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a little bit hard for New Zealanders to get a break with this lot, isn\u2019t it? You\u2019ve got inflation coming under control, you\u2019ve got interest rates coming down, and somehow they\u2019ve still got reason to complain about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022090123c8eee446809a9126743c795a52\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What is her plan, if any, to mitigate the impacts of the forecasted recession\u2014given unemployment is now forecast to be even higher at 5.4 percent, economic activity has weakened materially\u2014and weaker output gap that has been assumed in the August Monetary Policy Statement? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b6c79791e1c430d899361783d70208f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: On this side of the House, we take economic management extremely seriously. We have viewed it as our job to get inflation under control, and we are delivering ahead of schedule. We have taken it as our role to reduce inflationary pressure so that interest rates can come down and restore confidence in households and businesses, and we\u2019re delivering that ahead of schedule, too. And we are then taking steps to make sure that fiscal restraint and value for money are ongoing. We\u2019ve already delivered $23 billion worth of reprioritisation over the next four years, and there will be more to come. And then I would say this: every single Minister along this row, behind me, and over there thinks every day about how we drive economic growth in this country, how we get the barriers out of the way, and how we enable people to have the confidence to invest, to hire, to innovate, and to export. We believe in growth; you believe in red tape.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022226d16d3c09e4937b9583b21535771a4\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is the real reason why inflation is lower because she is tanking the economy, as described by the Reserve Bank as a \u201Cweakening in domestic economic activity observed in the July Monetary Policy Review has become more pronounced and broad-based.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c78542073fc24feabe235ff5e87ebf98\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member needs to decide what her line of argument is. Is it that the Government cannot take any credit whatsoever for lower inflation and lower interest rates or is it the latter supplementary, in which we have driven it down to levels that it shouldn\u2019t be? The member can\u2019t have it both ways. Choose a line of attack and stick to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022896bd282ee0944a58a910c2c70f3107b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Just to recap for the media and doubting Thomas\u2019s, is it a fact that with the implosion of expenditure and hope and borrowing by the previous administration, inflation more than doubled, but it\u2019s come down dramatically under the coalition\u2014yes or no?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f15a40820d58422188b9651cc3252068\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: These are the facts. And if the Deputy Prime Minister will indulge me, it is absolutely more than a yes or no answer, because there are these facts: there were three years of out-of-control inflation, of rising interest rates, of wasteful spending, of debt accumulation. Then a new, three-party coalition is elected, fiscal restraint comes on board, inflation comes down, interest rates come down, and soon growth will revive\u2014there\u2019s your story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225374ca0e4bd44467a24be14a662d24a7\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister taking credit for the lower cost of living achieved by a drop in the official cash rate, when public transport subsidies for under-25s have gone up, rates have gone up, rents have gone up, insurance premiums have gone up, and her Government have done nothing to mitigate these?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f82488762396455daba02812e27c82d4\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, here\u2019s the table\u2014this is inflation coming down. Now, what inflation did for the past three years was prices across the economy rose dramatically. For example, when people went to the supermarket, they faced higher and higher prices every time they went. Well, in the past year, food prices have actually fallen. And when I look at the Government\u2019s track record on delivering for the cost of living, it\u2019s not just inflation, it\u2019s not just reducing interest rates, which free up incomes for mortgage holders; it\u2019s also that we have reduced costs. The regional fuel tax, the ute tax, tenant taxes, personal income tax\u2014we are a Government on the side of those who care about the cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e30006b03a144538a852c707ba47863a\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. It seems to be apparent in all of the answers today that the only thing that is inflating around this place is the length of answers. You\u2019ve allowed extremely long answers from a number of Ministers today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7a21cbfe3e14153a39e784894b4c9f6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you for the point of order. And, yes, some of the answers have been longer than usual, but we\u2019ve actually been on some fairly tense topics as well, so thank you for the suggestion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002250339cac86c4441c9a0c198e32310df1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Public Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u00229a2a9ae49106442c9b4682194a065ecb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a2a9ae49106442c9b4682194a065ecb\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Public Service: Does she agree with the comments made by the Prime Minister yesterday that \u201Ccentral government focuses on must-haves, not nice-to-haves\u201D; if so, were the more than 6,500, and counting, public servants whose jobs have been cut simply \u201Cnice-to-haves\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00225bf9fed074be4f11b0a4a89141da3fb7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bf9fed074be4f11b0a4a89141da3fb7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister for the Public Service):\u003C/span\u003E I agree with the Prime Minister\u2019s full quote from his speech to Local Government New Zealand, which was \u201CFor ratepayers, it\u2019s simple. The central government focuses on must-haves, not nice-to-haves, and we expect local government to do the same.\u201D To the second part of the member\u2019s question, I would dispute the member\u2019s number and I would not use that characterisation, nor would the Prime Minister. In fact, I find the inference that any member of this House would refer to a human being as \u201Cnice to have\u201D as objectionable. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218c456980cf7456a8d39196d81534fd6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question will be heard in quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd0a51313c5749a9b7a97642e0feda06\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: Is staffing the Ministry for Regulation a must-have, but staffing the Police, the Environmental Protection Authority, and Oranga Tamariki nice-to-haves?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cac721d275dd41f1bc0c8cdf442bb8b7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I reject the characterisations in the question. For one thing, this is a Government that is increasing the front-line police officers by 500 and, for another, I would put to the member that while his party may be of the view that there\u2019s never a piece of red tape that the Government shouldn\u2019t say yes to, we on this side of the House are pro-growth, pro-development, and anti - red tape and that\u2019s the approach we\u2019re taking to regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf07f72a948e421a94abc7a9ece95fc4\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: Is the fact that she only found out about the average salaries of the Ministry for Regulation yesterday a sign that she\u2019s happy to justify cutting thousands of jobs while being ignorant of what happens in her coalition partners\u2019 pet ministries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022463536c010f5418abf696c8ba647d083\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member is asking me to assess average salaries by cohort, I could share with him that I\u2019ve had some work done in my office, and, apparently, the average salary of a Green MP is a little over $180,000, although I would note that that number excludes the salary of Darleen Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbb4c7c478b34e85a72790a8b5aba516\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022377d0c4b660443c28de45c212e838cbe\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know what the point of order is going to be. I would make note that the last comment that the Minister used was unnecessary in the context of the question that that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a61aca3617461cba0d8df325320c41\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Excluding the final comment, the Minister did not even get close to addressing the question and launched on a political attack. I think the bare minimum we should expect is at least addressing the question before she launches on political attacks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229718f6228894494097bd64b091a48047\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Well, I\u2019ve expressed my ruling about the member\u2019s comment. In terms of answering the question, there is a difference of opinion between the two groups, and the members might not like the Minister\u2019s answer but the Minister did give an answer. Rt Hon Winston Peters\u2014is this a point of order or a supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b47be4f4de054488b30e578ba61507ff\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s a supplementary question. By the way, finance Minister, is it a fact that those $180,000 salaries are the highest salaries they have ever earned in their lives or will ever earn in their lives?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223292da5cc18c4f8aa5c0953caa263487\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. The Minister does not need to answer that question. That question will create chaos.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210d05c6facc24b70a0ff0a2ce16de017\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f4c20a19a5240e8a22616aa1d22a7e9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Francisco Hernandez\u2014[Interruption] Quiet please. We have a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa8e7606d0bd49789e5203b8ef9964b0\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: How can she justify finding out about the eye-wateringly high average salaries at the Ministry for Regulation yesterday when her Government has justified cutting thousands of jobs as wasteful spending?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022221f27e35c8c4d23a4bfc16e64bb8ce5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I have said in answer to other questions in question time today, our Government has been on a mission to drive more value from Government spending, and as part of that we have delivered $23 billion worth of reprioritisation over the next four years in our Budget. That included a significant exercise to reduce the baseline costs of Government agencies. We view it as our responsibility to do that so that we can deliver better outcomes and more responsible economic management.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d468c27ff4d44b49317b72a6fc68a57\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with ACT Party leader David Seymour that \u201CMinisters can be so focused on their pet projects that they lose sight of whether they will improve New Zealanders\u2019 lives.\u201D, and, if so, how will she, as Minister for the Public Service, ensure that hard-working public servants are not sacrificed in the name of pet projects like the Ministry for Regulation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfa2e4f99ff04e65bfac1414e2845236\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think that David Seymour makes a good point and we have only to think about the energy crisis we are now experiencing to understand what can happen when Ministers have pet projects at the expense of good decision-making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cdd85d1d896c47b184a4e10c55212c11\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Local Government\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u0022e287ac1911d140a4a56ec1367bdbd41c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e287ac1911d140a4a56ec1367bdbd41c\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Local Government: What recent announcements has he made about getting local government back to basics?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022f78f8a3b4de84a4f871ff801bebc036d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f78f8a3b4de84a4f871ff801bebc036d\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, the Prime Minister and I announced measures to ensure councils get back to basics to reduce the pressure on rates, deliver core services and infrastructure, and improve the efficiency of decision making. These proposals include refocusing the purpose provisions of the Local Government Act, investigating performance benchmarks for local councils, investigating options to limit council expenditure and nice-to-haves, and reviewing transparency and accountability rules. Council rates are increasing by around 15 percent on average this year, which is more than four times the rate of inflation. This is unacceptable, and councils must ensure they are doing everything they can to reduce pressure on ratepayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aede8422787140f29873acf3ed52d302\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government investigating rate capping for councils?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022150818bae4c44290be679ce8d5598266\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is investigating rate capping for councils. This is similar to some Australian states, like New South Wales, where revenue caps are applied to non-core activities to control rate increases. We\u2019re interested in how a similar approach could work here in New Zealand, ensuring the right balance between ratepayers\u2019 interests and councils\u2019 financial positions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c95c704091684c3cbe137be667f70b8d\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to investigate options to limit council expenditure on nice-to-haves?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db4414ef188f4b2d94bd48f8815a2ed7\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: We are removing references to the previous Government\u2019s four wellbeings in the Local Government Act. These distracted councils from the core activities facing their communities, which we simply cannot afford at a time when Kiwis are doing it tough. The evidence is clear. Following the four wellbeings being introduced in the Local Government Act in 2002, rates averaged an increase of 6.8 percent. Following the wellbeings being removed in 2012, rate increases averaged 4.6 percent. Since they were reinstated in 2019, the average rate increase is back up at 6.5 percent. As the Prime Minister outlined yesterday, central government is leading by example in focusing on the must-haves, not the nice-to-haves. Our expectation is local government does so too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022697e91f5e5854481bcf6d69645008954\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government reviewing transparency and accountability rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4299e2b3096497d972cd452d6f31d85\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s unacceptable that the rules as they stand today allow unelected officials, in many cases, to prevent elected members from accessing the information they need to represent their communities. I have been shocked and appalled at situations such as the Wellington City Council recently refusing to provide information on key decisions to elected members, and those members having to use the Official Information Act to access that information. Councillors and mayors are elected on behalf of their communities. They should be empowered to access this information so they can make good decisions and hold officials to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c419367ef2d456aad63cd06ecbdf859\u0022\u003EQuestion No 7\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u00225ac43639eb7a4cd2bb49427757dda377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ac43639eb7a4cd2bb49427757dda377\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Health: Does she stand by her answer to my oral question No. 8 on 23 July, confirming that the vast majority of heated tobacco products sold in 2022 were by Philip Morris, and by the decision to grant a $216 million tax break for heated tobacco products?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022daf4e650effe4e238970fcae1f38dd1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daf4e650effe4e238970fcae1f38dd1b\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Before I respond to the question, I would just like to take a moment to acknowledge the quit-smoking service providers that I met with across the country last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022758f5cc802584652845fffa2ce12bf4e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022180541c3baab4b51a04ab4ce112886a6\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: They are the contributors\u2014[Interruption] I think it\u2019s appropriate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d8b335ba57842948ddd3a6df3328bf9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is about to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247f6856248e94dbc96f78b0072df1db7\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: And I would like to acknowledge their hard work to achieve the smoking rates success we have. It was the first time they\u2019d ever met with a Minister, so I thought it was good to acknowledge their hard work. In regards to the member\u2019s first question about standing by my answer of 23 July, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250a668a4bb5e44e3baaecb50700c95b8\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her view that heated tobacco is \u201Cdefinitely a lot less harmful\u201D, and is it a coincidence that a Philip Morris strategy document includes plans to promote heated tobacco as a harm minimisation tool despite the total lack of evidence that it helps people quit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225170d7cbbfb4047b235bc9d2c67e1af\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Making it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f4b25b8dc8047968bf94d964a46251d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s unnecessary, Mr Jones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208f30825288a4a3486af438b9e462458\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: Yet again the member reads a news story and decides I care one iota about what the tobacco industry feels or believes. Our stance has been unequivocal: this Government wants smokers to quit smoking, to reduce harm from smoking, and to achieve the smoke-free 2025 target. For long-term smokers, that requires access to safer nicotine products and, from the meeting with the quit-smoking providers, there is much opportunity to encourage those who have previously been unable to quit to try again, and alternative products will be a tool to achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fdcf762aa5149f69e1da8231e67e145\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: So does she stand by her statement that she has no relationship to the tobacco industry, and, if so, how does she explain having been chair of an organisation identified as a partner in a Philip Morris strategy document and now implementing the objectives of that document in her role as Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb80da7c9f6a46b184959893e5fcbb33\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: I think we are conflating so many issues here that it\u2019s almost time to get dizzy. I can understand why the member doesn\u2019t want us associated with that organisation, because they stand for lower taxes, less waste, and more accountability. We are committed to achieving the smoke-free target. We will do so. It is absolutely our duty to meet the smoke-free 2025 target.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa0d76fbebc14869986105693f2113c2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: What actions will she take as Minister to address concerns that commitments in the New Zealand First and National Party coalition agreement on tobacco arose from the actions planned in the Philip Morris strategy document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221faef9b6327d4ebc9352075669190335\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: The actions I will take will achieve the smoke-free 2025 target.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad19b9af16c94872baa4ad134d376547\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is she going to have regard to the four-decade-old anti-smoking campaigners ASH and the very esteemed Professor Beaglehole or someone who puts out an incoherent press release, like today, where she can\u2019t even spell the word \u201Cin thrall\u201D properly or its meaning, and gets all the mathematics wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b319a17d9844b1c9d67ae07e3d40803\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I will take good notice of the work done by ASH and their true dedication, beyond soundbites and virtue signalling, to achieve a really important target of smoke-free 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240c0edfc5b5440e8b955cd18ea24da90\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: So are New Zealanders expected to believe it\u2019s a mere coincidence that her actions in Government are in lockstep with the objectives of a Philip Morris strategy document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f611457c35b04630a75a97a2fe024c97\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: The New Zealand public should believe that this Government is committed to achieving smoke-free 2025, and we will deliver on that commitment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264e7580f48114f0998056f39e5251f15\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7cd9e8384664f8d9f833ccd6abc6689\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I accept the Minister has\u2014just a moment, Rt Hon Winston Peters\u2014answered the question a number of times. There\u2019s a Cabinet Manual, and the Minister has been answering the questions, and it seems to me that the repetitive questions to the Minister about this are starting to become a little bit too much. So, Rt Hon Winston Peters, did you have a question or a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a9631f8b9b8474283d5f80949f6c740\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022702ef81ac0464442972b99d7e8bee8d8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just checking, because I think the Rt Hon Winston Peters had a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c1bd851e3a45f6ad60d21c170bc609\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, no; supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022107510fba75040c5ac55dac74cf29b29\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK, so I\u2019ll take the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c12863c45310489eb592dd75fb40d8be\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: With the utmost respect, Madam Speaker, the job of the Opposition is to choose their questions, and they shouldn\u2019t be edited by anyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d57a27d9945438c83819248edba0a04\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not editing the questions; I\u2019m just saying that I think that particular question has been asked a number of times now this afternoon. It\u2019s becoming repetitive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208debfb0b92c4ce59834c0cb81e5060e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: And that\u2019s for the member to decide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270a7b82e58da462cbee7a84d35a0c11e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, well, the member obviously didn\u2019t give another answer to that because it\u2019s been asked several times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f8a974bb8ff4ac1916aadf33ee6267c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister whether it\u2019s a chronological fact that, by the looks of this report, Philip Morris put out a document over eight years ago, at which time that was to be followed by a then coalition where Labour was passing the law on this very matter about which she now complains?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a5a44de77d7497cb8a7252a3721e1c8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure that the Minister has any responsibility for what happened back in the coalition with Labour. So\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c79d203c80d5408b9a0a817bb7b9581e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014point of order. She\u2019s got responsibility for a present complaint being made by Ayesha Verrall right here in this House, and I\u2019m just putting the record straight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee59dddc232c4cc9850fdbf08f4e2131\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think that\u2019s the record now; the Minister has no responsibility for answering that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cda866e738f4df5b966880c3e676999\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Is acting contrary to official information laws, as the Ombudsman has found; not taking challenging interviews on this topic; and choosing to evade, with repetitive answers, questions in this Parliament the behaviour of a Minister who has nothing to hide?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5f9a4f385ca4b849f1b359530587888\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: The allegation being made there\u2014I completely reject the premise of the question. I have not evaded media interviews. The fact that she has\u2014I have given numerous interviews; I have been on television numerous times. This topic has been traversed to the full extent. It has become distracting from the objective of this Government, which is to deliver smoke-free 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022049db163ad8f4597856b03075937127a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you and, on that basis, if the member has a different question we will take it, but I\u2019m not taking any more questions on that front. The Minister has been very clear in that answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288d398e6cdae49309f3b03b70b7ebdce\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. In my view, it is my right as a member of Parliament to be able to choose my own questions, to be able to repeat questions if I wish, because that may at times\u2014and has with this Minister at times\u2014elicit different answers. This is a House where we should be free to investigate whether ministerial powers have been used in a way that promotes the interests of tobacco companies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bed596089eb84e66a5d935cb2c8f0b7f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member can ask her supplementary questions. All I\u2019m saying is if the same question is going to be asked a number of times, then you can\u2019t expect a new answer from the Minister, if she doesn\u2019t wish to. OK, so ask your question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022404e8c7ca48942acaf10f17a34cda25e\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, speaking to the point of order, is it not correct that it\u2019s at the discretion of the Speaker, in terms of Standing Order 397, whether a member is granted a supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd9e14e48aa849ffb41ea03d8daae24a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the member is entitled to her supplementary questions at the discretion of the Speaker. I have basically said that if the Minister has already felt that she\u2019s given an answer to a question that\u2019s the same as what it was before, then it\u2019s up to the Minister\u2019s discretion whether she answers that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3c0c6b71c1f4a4d887385bf79571d46\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister feel any obligation to take further steps to show to the people of New Zealand that she has not been influenced by the tobacco industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e147a54ff83486d857c84390034921b\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: I have taken further steps in that I have made a genuine commitment and undertaking that I have had no association with the tobacco industry. The fact that the member refuses to believe that is not my problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022225b87e05d3947f3913c4922816f190a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa936a06d4904747abc9e91d6c8b8bac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa936a06d4904747abc9e91d6c8b8bac\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What announcements has he made on investment in road policing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u00221e6021aa1bb3491faf4d0b3db0f78e1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e6021aa1bb3491faf4d0b3db0f78e1b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E On Sunday, I announced that drunk and drugged drivers will be heavily targeted through our new $1.3 billion Road Policing Investment Programme to improve safety on our roads. The Road Policing Investment Programme shows a significant step up in road policing and reinforces our Government\u2019s commitment to ensure there is strong enforcement on our roads to keep Kiwis travelling around our country safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225db1af823ccf445a942a797a8813bfc5\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government targeting drunk and drugged drivers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7aa43945eaa43688e3f25bdb4495ce3\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Our Government is focusing road policing on seven key areas over the next three years, targeting investment towards the highest contributing factors in fatal crashes. Alcohol and drugs are the leading contributor to fatal crashes on our roads. During 2019 and 2022, crashes involving drugged drivers tragically claimed the lives of around 105 people each year, and alcohol is a contributing factor to around 13 percent of fatal crashes. We\u2019re cracking down on the most high-risk behaviours rather than forcing Kiwis to drive at a snail\u2019s pace on our roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241b734a139ea407ea0bd7a511da6ffdc\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What actions is the Government taking against drunk and drugged drivers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273438d076e0c40d68f4610b6e9b5750b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re taking significant action. Our plan has a clear focus on outcomes and has clear targets to ensure police are focused on the most high-risk times, behaviours, and locations. We\u2019re increasing alcohol breath tests with a target of 3.3 million tests per year, requiring that 65 percent of breath tests are done at high-risk times. And we\u2019re passing legislation to roll out roadside drug testing, with $20 million of funding for the delivery and implementation of these tests, and a target of 50,000 tests per year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222c33b3dba9842b6ab85b443477f0fe7\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to ensure there is a consistent number of alcohol breath tests undertaken each year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246e67cf9b2e6445f853befb5b4c45183\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Spending more money will not in itself deliver a consistent number of breath tests. Despite increases in spending in past years, New Zealand has had an inconsistent record with breath tests. Over the past 10 years, there are only two in which police have conducted 3 million tests. Some years have delivered less than half of that number and we\u2019re determined to turn this around. That\u2019s why, for the first time, $72\u00A0million of this funding will be made available to police once those targets are reached, to ensure we have a consistent number of tests done every year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022080d83d885a14e12b62e09513db128df\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022ccfdbfa81488479da278bfb5ed039c52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ccfdbfa81488479da278bfb5ed039c52\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she agree with Lifewise, who say cutting benefits for minor misdemeanors, including a missed appointment, would hurt the most vulnerable; if not, how will the traffic light system not hurt the most vulnerable?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddcd29e391ff49ef8ecd1b6a23a7c435\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddcd29e391ff49ef8ecd1b6a23a7c435\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E No, because it is one part of our plan to help people into work. The traffic light system makes it crystal clear when action is required to comply with obligations. If someone fails an obligation, they move to orange and have five days to re-comply or dispute their obligation failure. This is a fair chance to re-comply with an obligation before moving to red, where sanctions are applied. Sanctions for missing appointments are longstanding, including during 2017 to 2020 when the Greens and Labour confidence and supply agreement committed to, \u201Cremove excessive sanctions\u201D. Given that sanctions for missing appointments remained during this time, just like this coalition Government has done, presumably the Greens and Labour determined such a sanction was fair and reasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0980f1f756c4ef6884df2df9a9c66eb\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s more likely to be correct on the use of sanctions: beneficiaries and the front-line organisations who support them, or a Minister who has failed to produce any research or evidence that benefit sanctions support people into employment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba3bf003fda64944b3314954a481a48c\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: What I can say is that we are really clear that work obligations and steps to provide people with opportunities to step towards a job help, and I\u2019d be surprised if that member disagreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e59d188fa635481fb54b1a1e59008b8a\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she yet know what happens to a beneficiary when their income is cut, or is it easier to ignore the hardship that her reforms will inflict?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211e6ecdacae344d78d962c73640246b8\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m really pleased to announce to the House that 98 percent of beneficiaries who are in the traffic light system are at green, which shows the system is working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaac5e5e82334d05bd4b54f714edd61b\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: What does she think works best for parents: finding caregiving arrangements that work best for them and their kids or being forced into a full-time job that may compromise the care of their children because they may lose half of their benefit if they don\u2019t accept it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297b2d4ceb238473a8a9a644f5d5a597b\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: What is clear is it doesn\u2019t work to have large numbers of children in New Zealand growing up in benefit-dependent households. Today, it\u2019s one in five. We want to see more parents, more individuals, in work to improve the chances and the lifelong outcomes of their children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236072dd808b84693b7f478a125a1c362\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Will disabled people on the jobseeker benefit who are waiting for a doctors appointment to move on to the supported living payment be subject to work obligations and sanctions under the traffic light system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f670eb8fee446a5ad83a762e39e21b7\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: There are individuals who provide work capacity certificates, and requirements will be for some that they have no work obligations, they have part-time work obligations, or they have full-time obligations as deemed by an independent medical person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a31ee40-34c3-42b0-9459-7a7e9c815d6a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227de8ccf336c0452aa6188f4a874842ec\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept the view of CCS Disability Action, who say that \u201CThe barriers to accessing the [supported living payment] are numerous, and until they are adequately addressed, any benefit sanctions imposed on people on the Jobseeker Support will exacerbate the struggles faced by disabled people.\u201D?; and, if not, how will her reforms to increase sanctions and compliance requirements not punish disabled people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205eec47271c744c0aa6f57f8a1fc4b9c\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said in this House, and in my answer previously, for some beneficiaries, there are work obligations; for some, there aren\u2019t. What we are proud to say is this side of the House believes in the value of work, and we will focus on what people can do and what they can\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce329e49e50e4b579f646c9b13455d88\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The question is very specifically about the barriers that disabled people face to enter supported living payment. At no point did the Minister talk about disabled people or the supported living payment, and instead went on a completely different tangent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022657d4b7507c6405593a882484fcac5f7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think the Minister\u2019s fairly addressed the answers to those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022341d72e2f63649ecb573ae43684bce68\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022de4d67c50941402a85e431f2ce38a1a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de4d67c50941402a85e431f2ce38a1a8\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. Ko taku p\u0101tai i roto i te reo M\u0101ori ki te Minita Take Ture. N\u014D reira, ka whakaae ia, p\u0113r\u0101 i \u0113tahi atu Minita, kia arohaehaehia t\u014Dna whare, ar\u0101 Te T\u0101h\u016B o te Ture, hei whakap\u016Bmau i te whakatutukitanga o \u0101na wh\u0101inga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question, in the M\u0101ori language, is to the Minister of Justice. And so, does he agree, similar to other Ministers, to the review of his house\u2014i.e., the Ministry of Justice\u2014to ensure it is meeting its objectives?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00225dbab016d1864d6d830e6f4a1c60605c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225dbab016d1864d6d830e6f4a1c60605c\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Like every Minister in every portfolio, I\u2019m constantly reviewing what we\u2019re doing across the justice system to ensure it meets its objectives. There is, of course, a lot of work to do. Too many New Zealanders are victims of crime and too many New Zealanders have to wait too long to receive justice or to have their disputes resolved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cbbae14664748d2b0a8ffd4f1036ac0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. I ask you to get a transcript of that question, which is set out there as being question No. 10 on the Order Paper today, and you can be certain that\u2019s not what he said, which he\u2019s required to say and follow to the word when he\u2019s in this Parliament. Why is there a separate rule for Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the rest have to comply with a longstanding, decades\u2019 old rule that what\u2019s written down there needs to be repeated and only that, and not all the add-ons as he feels like it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022901f62f6509b4b51b244b2328675340f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, can I just take the member\u2019s word that the question to the Minister was\u2014because I didn\u2019t quite get this up in time\u2014what was directed off the paper?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264d625d30a974502886c254f3a002925\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Te ritenga? [The corresponding meaning?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c9ba12119374baa834e38ecb9eb22e2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. The Minister obviously understood the question that you were asking\u2014is that correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d72bf6e43aa045bb9731cb4795695b9a\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Well, he uaua te whakam\u0101ori i te kupu P\u0101keh\u0101 me t\u014Dna ritenga kau ki te kupu P\u0101keh\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[Well, it is difficult to translate into M\u0101ori the English words and their corresponding meaning with English words.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e21094d039ca465abdfb88ce0ce00def\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. Rather than delay the House\u2019s time, I seek you to get a transcript\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233eef460d5e1499a92a12d8f96366013\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll have a look\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e3b7cff0f7744f0813ec3e6f1835722\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: No, let me finish off. I am the person that raised the point of order because I picked it up\u2014you didn\u2019t. With respect, I want you to compare the transcript and tell us next week what was the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2ae4a81de9f4119837fb419e9b8002a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will commit to do that, but with respect also, the Minister answered the question and there was no confusion there. So I call on T\u0101kuta Ferris to ask a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022572bebd8891844b1b8f73e939fe7a26b\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. Speaking to the point of order. E tino tautoko ana au i a T\u0101kuta me t\u0101na p\u0101tai. [I absolutely support T\u0101kuta and his question.] We should not be putting barriers in place for members to be able to speak te reo M\u0101ori in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c5f8cff176545f1b21d201cac28a27b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, under Speaker\u2019s ruling 42/5, interpretation is not word for word identical to the English version. So I rule that the Minister understood what was being asked and answered the question, and I would like T\u0101kuta Ferris now to ask his supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab8ec977cb30445d8033a453c9318209\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: What actions will he take to eliminate structural racism in the justice system, which continues to see M\u0101ori men being stopped, tasered, prosecuted by the State more than any other group, as revealed by the Police yesterday in their Understanding Policing Delivery report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dce46cdea7564e229029e6c22cf2bb2a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think everybody across the justice system is very focused on achieving equitable outcomes. But I don\u2019t think it\u2019s fair or helpful to suggest that the tens of thousands of New Zealanders, including M\u0101ori New Zealanders, who work across the justice system are racist or are part of a system that\u2019s motivated by racism. I think they\u2019re New Zealanders who are doing their very best, and we\u2019re very focused on achieving the best outcomes that we can in the justice sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b08ac285d35d44a390da3568e2a9c57a\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Is he therefore saying that structural racism does not exist in New Zealand\u2019s justice system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d00253ec265445ffa632ebfb5ed54dd1\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I\u2019m saying is I don\u2019t think it\u2019s a helpful suggestion to imply that the tens of thousands of New Zealanders who work across the justice system are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d902821865745238e4cd3acb6abeca5\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. That\u2019s not what I asked. I didn\u2019t say anything about the people who work in justice. I asked the member if he thought that the justice system was systemically racist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e3d855c783c4f3d8b7a2f7797b58c89\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. I think we all wanted to actually hear what the Minister was going to answer by virtue of that, and I think it would help the House and the commentary if we allowed the Minister to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e14a3056cfe34e83b3dff519820bdadf\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. So T\u0101kuta Ferris, please ask your question again and the Minister will answer it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207df57656fce4608abf84119518e6584\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Is he, therefore, saying that structural racism does not exist in New Zealand\u2019s justice system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6fd9fee8c304c65a6dc25c78345195a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m saying that there are academics and people that would like to use that phrase. I personally don\u2019t think it\u2019s a helpful way of describing a system, because the justice system is created and operated by tens of thousands of New Zealanders in the courts, in the police, in corrections, in the Ministry of Justice, our judges\u2014all New Zealanders; many, of course, are M\u0101ori New Zealanders\u2014who are doing their best to deliver justice, and to imply that they\u2019re part of a racist endeavour or a system that is racist, I don\u2019t think is very helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d09673c1108f4dfc9a9a7c1fc40f0596\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. Well, that was no answer. But is he saying\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022081c2c3db97442bd96ebd40177c86be6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Would the member please take a seat. The Minister answered the question. That was the Minister\u2019s answer. There\u2019s no requirement that the member who asked the question likes the Minister\u2019s answer, but the Minister answered the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022abe37d26387c4bfa9f607280d2b9cdb2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00222179e44016684fd7a5f43e033a93f63e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222179e44016684fd7a5f43e033a93f63e\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does he agree with Mike Hosking on Newstalk ZB when he marked crime 2/10, saying, \u201CFor all the noise, promises and headlines, I\u2019m pretty sure the stats show it\u2019s going the wrong way\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022c06ed04dff7548b09e4b17f3e2f5e44f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c06ed04dff7548b09e4b17f3e2f5e44f\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E No, but I can understand why Mike has said that. The incoming Government inherited the worst violent crime this country has seen and it is a big job that will take time to turn around. The good news is that after eight months we are starting to see early signs of positive change. I\u2019ll have more to say on this next week, but I\u2019m happy to share with that member that when comparing the first six months of last year with the first six months of this year, we have seen aggravated robberies reduce by 10 percent, we have seen knife crime drop by 10 percent, there have been 5 percent less serious assaults, Auckland Council reported earlier in the week a 35 percent drop in crime, and Heart of the City also reported that retail thefts and robberies in Auckland had fallen 50 percent. Additionally, advice from police shows that we have slowed the increase in retail crime by half. This is a result of this Government\u2019s focus on back-to-basics policing with increased visibility and presence. We are very realistic that these problems will not be fixed overnight and I\u2019m not saying that the problem is solved, but I\u2019m encouraged by these early signs of progress and improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c55664b67d854b8e920480d9cc6744d7\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How are New Zealanders in Waikato safer when there has been a 350 percent increase in non-aggravated robberies and a 53 percent increase in aggravated sexual assaults since he took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022347382f517164e41b0671ba9f285bd93\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the people of Waikato will start to feel safer, I hope, when they see that the police are being extremely proactive in terms of dealing with crime on the street, in terms of visibility. I\u2019d reiterate again to the member that in the first six months of this Government, there\u2019s been a reduction by 10 percent of aggravated robberies, there\u2019s been a reduction by 10 percent of knife crime, and there\u2019s been a reduction of 5 percent of serious assaults.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265e05bfba0f24f3d815b383726caf000\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How are New Zealanders in Canterbury safer when there has been a 164 percent increase in aggravated robberies since he took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff127ae3edff490ab03c3b56d83915f6\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the people in Canterbury will be feeling safer because, again, they\u2019ve seen a big increase in visibility and presence of their police officers in the street. They\u2019re feeling safer in their CBD. The police have been extremely proactive and they\u2019ve run big operations to deal with boy racers. They\u2019ve been very proactive in the way that they\u2019re dealing with gangs. Like I said, I\u2019ll have more to say on this next week; there\u2019s some good news on the way. I will bring the member back to the fact that there\u2019s been a 10 percent reduction in aggravated robberies in the first six months of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc9d735544a340bdb33465174e42bc28\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Why have police foot patrols in Canterbury decreased by 39\u00A0percent since he took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f92ebaf54e3343e19a3a6b4345583a18\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s just been additional resource put into Canterbury to increase the number of police on the street, and the feedback that I get from members of the public every day is that they\u2019re seeing their police officers back on the street, highly visible, providing reassurance, and they\u2019re loving it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf3394fd4af741be81e8846d34391990\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How are New Zealanders safer when there has been a 25\u00A0percent increase in thefts from retail premises between November 2023 and May 2024 compared to the previous year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022118b1408ede944c5b7d4a9adeef0e66d\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, like I said to the member, we know that we\u2019ve got a lot of work to do. We inherited the worst violence this country has ever seen via the previous Government. But I would bring her attention again back to the fact that police advise that retail crime has slowed down by half in the first eight months since this Government came in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7189352df0544898d588baa3c9803b6\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Can he guarantee to New Zealanders that the 248 job cuts to New Zealand police will not affect the front line and therefore further contribute to these stats going the wrong way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cab9c4d58e5142198f1c1b5cd510268a\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this Government takes services to the community that we serve really seriously, and any savings that we\u2019ve taken out of Police National Headquarters are being reinvested back on the front line so that people see police officers highly visible out on the beat, which they\u2019re seeing now and they\u2019re loving, to make sure that we make our country safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022646f089a32aa4dc79549a2a9d79342ba\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00229087d51332024345994fbaf47a2da22a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229087d51332024345994fbaf47a2da22a\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What recent announcements has he made about reforms to corporate governance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002258b4648754414586b90e5da19a98237f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258b4648754414586b90e5da19a98237f\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Last Thursday, I announced a package of reforms that will update corporate governance arrangements. One of the key reforms is to amend the Companies Act, a piece of legislation that hasn\u2019t been substantially updated for 30 years. The Companies Act is a foundational piece of legislation for our economy. The reforms include five key components: first, modernise, simplify, and digitise the Companies Act; second, improve director identification while suppressing the public disclosure of home addresses; third, update insolvency arrangements and specifically address the phoenixing of companies; fourth, increase the use, function, and uptake of the New Zealand Business Number; and separately, with the agreement of Minister Goldsmith, request the Law Commission to review company director liabilities and duties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4d4e06959784fd097bff9ba32d4afa7\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What protections are proposed for creditors and investors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226d303272f8947f29aa6a6700570ca2a\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: A very good question. I\u2019m sure many Kiwis have heard the stories of companies that go bankrupt, leaving behind debts, only for the owners of those companies to pop up somewhere else under a new name. This is often referred to as \u201Cphoenixing\u201D and is clearly neither fair nor right. The Government\u2019s package of reforms includes giving company directors a unique number, which will improve transparency and make it easier for creditors and law enforcement to trace the activities of directors. In addition, we\u2019re proposing to update insolvency arrangements, which will mean better protection for creditors, including employees.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6cffb72cb1b42b89c6c99d56d82b990\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What protections will be put in place that will encourage people to be directors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022420c45c2809a40d6a4721c4e9a106f2b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: One of the key concerns we\u2019ve heard from directors is the disclosure of their private addresses on the Companies Register. We\u2019re proposing to allow an address for service rather than a home address on the publicly accessible elements of the Companies Register, while still ensuring directors are locatable and accountable. The changes are comprehensive, as it deals with both director and shareholder addresses. I do want to acknowledge MP Laura Trask and the Hon Dr Deborah Russell for their work on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022adac9e7f0a31405aaccdb5e018d28add\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 13\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00224db3d3106c004f3fb2704380f629a1e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E13. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224db3d3106c004f3fb2704380f629a1e2\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Housing: Does the Minister stand by his statement relating to the drop in children living in emergency accommodation, where he said, \u201CI\u2019m not worried that some are now homeless\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u002295a838c30a274fe480a99d610d2c8679\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295a838c30a274fe480a99d610d2c8679\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, m\u0101l\u014D e lelei. I am very concerned about homelessness, especially with tamariki. In the context in which the relevant question was asked of me by media and understood by me and in relation to this Government\u2019s very successful priority one programme, I\u2019ll remind the member, who may inadvertently mischaracterise the context in which the question was asked, that I am very proud that the 1,110 children who have come out of emergency housing by way of the priority one programme have now gone into warm, safe, dry homes. Every single tamariki of the 1,110 have now gone into warm, safe, dry homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af19fc0202f434eab9a487b3aa2fe3a\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister also not worried that social services are directly attributing a recent increase in homelessness to his decision to make it harder for people to access emergency housing, as reported this week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5a1726b7b4442a882d0590e528ac9fa\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, Madam Speaker. I am not advised of any substantiated evidence or reports of increased homelessness. Our officials continue to monitor homelessness very carefully. Let it be known in this House\u2014again, for the fourth time this week\u2014that emergency housing and the capacity of emergency housing in the majority of city centres throughout this country is available for those with a genuine need for short-term stay, for temporary accommodation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022773fe2da61724d4fb7135be71b5fb6b4\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Does his indifference to homelessness explain why he ignored official advice that his policy of making it harder to access emergency housing will result in more people living on the streets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b40c39be82147deb15e1a6e1b4d772f\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, Madam Speaker. Early on in the process of establishing the new way of doing things, we were advised by the Ministry of Social Development that there may be a risk of increased homelessness by the actions that we were taking, but there are no substantiated reports or evidence of increased homelessness. There continues to be capacity in the majority of city centres in Aotearoa New Zealand for those with a genuine need for a short-term stay, for temporary accommodation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf785b08eb3f4214a2f8e635c1d1a29d\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Who should New Zealanders trust: social services, who have reported an increase in homelessness because of the Minister\u2019s policies, or the Minister, who isn\u2019t worried about an increase in homelessness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6a45fea8e15433b8d40ce32ed0169a7\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, m\u0101l\u014D e lelei. Certainly, it\u2019s blue shoots\u2014that this Government has made decisions that have resulted in a decrease of over a thousand wh\u0101nau in emergency housing from the time we came into Government until the end of June, and 1,110 tamariki who have left emergency housing since April 2024\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3d826b4e2d54dcabdd5e353dc9be38a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Where have they gone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa3a305cfdbe466bb64b07570413c64d\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and we do know and my officials do have the information of the locations where those tamariki have gone to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a97b6a253ec8489eabb8185968140a47\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: If, as has now been established, the Government has slashed K\u0101inga Ora funding, significantly reduced funding for community housing providers, cut back on M\u0101ori housing and made it harder for wh\u0101nau to access emergency housing, and the Minister isn\u2019t concerned that some are now homeless, doesn\u2019t this just confirm that he\u2019s actually more focused on ensuring landlords get $2.9 billion in tax breaks than actually housing vulnerable families?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298f60c49429b44d58dc6deab25631bad\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, Madam Speaker. The Minister must have turned his ears off earlier on when I described that I am very concerned about homelessness in this country. However, there are a number of aspects of his question that would be better directed to the Minister in charge of various funding for K\u0101inga Ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299d07121117c4e90b66043f6261b11ed\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a208e643b37d4abfb94f762dd850dda5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. There\u2019s no more supplementary questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228143892ea91341e3bd592d9fa3f332e5\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: One more? One more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228a3317378e44db89ae4f6dfbcbdc352\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. There\u2019s no more supplementary questions. That concludes oral questions. I\u2019ll stand with tradition and give everyone 30 seconds to quietly move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c92df66798a74a4a8c896eb8cfe90182\u0022\u003EFirearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022172ee8eb875e4c49bf6154f3c2b48050\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00226767343b69a6475b8a37142dab71f440\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226767343b69a6475b8a37142dab71f440\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to present a legislative statement on the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf02a2296b5f43e692c85e24112f28fa\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is none. That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260a6dbff7a914b188a95c3cf3a2c51c6\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis bill was developed earlier in the year as part of the Government\u2019s 100-day plan. It gives police the tools that they need to keep firearms out of the hands of gangs and other high-risk offenders. This bill advances our commitment to reduce violent crime, restore law and order, and keep our community safe. Firearms prohibition orders\u2014or FPOs\u2014are orders made by the court when offenders have committed serious violent offences. They are in force for 10 years and prohibit these offenders from holding a firearms licence and from being around or accessing firearms. Breaching the conditions of an FPO is a criminal offence, and offenders that do can be liable for up to seven years in prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe FPO regime has been in place since 2022 but was largely without teeth. This bill makes three key improvements to particularly target gangs and organised criminal groups. It expands the qualifying criteria for the court to make an FPO, it gives police a new search power to monitor compliance with an FPO, and it establishes a process by which an FPO may be modified or removed. This provides police with another practical tool and sends a strong message that we are committed to addressing violent crime and enforcing consequences for gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOn 26 July, the Justice Committee reported the bill back to the House. I\u2019d like to thank the Justice Committee for their careful consideration of this bill. I would also like to thank the 40 or so members of the public who took the time to provide submissions on the bill. I hugely appreciate them sharing their views with the committee. Substantial submissions had been received by the committee from the Criminal Bar Association, the New Zealand Law Society, the Privacy Commissioner, the New Zealand Police Association, the New Zealand Council for Civil Liberties, and the Disabled Persons Assembly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe most common themes raised by submitters were around who is captured by the definition of a gang member or associate; widening the eligible offences for gang members; and concern with the extent of the new search powers. Through their process, the Justice Committee has made several amendments to address the matters most raised by submitters and sharpen the focus of the bill. These refinements specifically relate to the definition of an associate or gang or organised criminal group, the offences for which the FPO may be issued, and the extent of the new search power to ensure compliance with an FPO.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe first change relates to the bill\u2019s original definition of an associate of a gang or organised group, which was defined as \u201Can individual who\u2014(a) associates with a member of a gang or an organised criminal group; and (b) is not a mere acquaintance of the member\u201D. Several submitters raised concerns that this definition could capture a broader range of acquaintances than was intended, possibly including colleagues or relatives. The bill is intended to target those who associate with gangs\u2014that is, those who may not be patched members but are involved in their activities and lifestyle. To reflect this, the bill now defines an associate simply as \u201Can individual who associates with a gang or an organised criminal group\u201D. This means that the association is based on the individual\u2019s connection to a gang or an organised criminal group and its activities, rather than to any particular member of that gang. This would include situations where an individual frequently attends gang events, wears gang insignia, or participates in criminal offending with gang members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe second change relates to the types of offences for which an FPO can be issued. Submitters raised concerns that some of the offences were fairly minor and not related to gang activities and may capture more people than was intended. To better reflect the policy intent, the bill now targets offences specifically connected with firearms, organised crime, and violent offending. This includes crimes against a person, such as kidnapping or assault, and crimes against property, like money laundering or burglary. These are offences that clearly demonstrate that the offender poses a risk to public safety. This recognises the sudden and significant violence that can result from gang conflict and focuses the FPO regime on gang members and gang offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe third change relates to the new search power for the police to monitor whether someone who is subject to an FPO is complying with the conditions. This bill allows police to search someone who is subject to an FPO without a warrant, without reason to suspect they are breaching the FPO or that they are committing any other offence. As a result of the Justice Committee\u2019s consideration, three key refinements have been made to the search power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFirst, there is a clear statement of the purpose of the search power\u2014that is, for monitoring compliance with an FPO. This makes it absolutely clear that the purpose is to ensure that an offender is complying with the conditions of their FPO and not to search for evidence of other offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESecond, there is a higher threshold for the exercise of the search power, from \u201Creasonable grounds to suspect that a person is subject to a [FPO]\u201D to \u201Creasonable grounds to believe that a person is subject to a [FPO]\u201D. This allows for situations where police cannot be certain of a person\u2019s identity and, therefore, whether they are subject to an FPO.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThird, there are additional limits on the places that can be searched in connection with a person subject to an FPO\u2014to places where the person subject to an FPO has influence, control, or direct access. This keeps the focus on the subject and ensures the scope for what can be searched is only as wide as it needs to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI want to once again thank the Justice Committee for their thorough and careful consideration of the bill. Their work has finetuned it to ensure police can effectively keep firearms out of the hands of gangs and high-risk offenders. This bill forms the first phase of the Government\u2019s broader programme of firearms reform, to modernise our firearms law to ensure public safety and quality regulation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn closing, this bill addresses the unacceptable levels of gang-related violence, public intimidation, and crimes involving firearms that have so concerned New Zealanders. It will help keep firearms out of the hands of gangs and other high-risk offenders. It is another initiative to advance this Government\u2019s commitment to reducing violent crime and restoring law and order and, ultimately, to make our communities safer. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00223edfc3981fff41c3a52770d19ca54691\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223edfc3981fff41c3a52770d19ca54691\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101l\u014D \u2018aupito. The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00227be3fa9341864f068fc1dc82f3d33e9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227be3fa9341864f068fc1dc82f3d33e9b\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is the first of four tranches of firearms reforms being undertaken by this Government. The first being firearms prohibition orders (FPOs), the second being loosening the safety regulations on pistol and non-pistol ranges, the third being reviewing the firearms registry, and the fourth is rewriting the Arms Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe FPO\u2019s regime is somewhat counterintuitive. The first pillar is at contradiction to the second, the third, and the fourth of this range of reforms because it\u2019s with its National Party hand that this Government is claiming it\u2019s making it harder for criminals to get a gun with FPOs. But with its ACT Party hand, it is making it easier by loosening the safety restrictions on guns and ranges and weakening the firearms registry. Nicole McKee is on record saying,\u00A0regarding the firearms registry, \u201CI think the full A category licensing regime is not going to be effective. It\u2019s going to be too costly. It\u2019s going to make people fearful for their own safety.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWe have the Minister responsible for firearms prohibition orders stating that the gun of choice by criminals, which is the Alfa Carbine rifle\u2014easily cut down\u2014would be excluded from pillar three of this range of reforms, therefore, endangering front-line police and communities. So my point is: what is the purpose of introducing a strengthened firearms prohibition order regime when, in the same tranche of reforms, firearms are able to be more easily accessed by criminals if our firearms registry is undermined and A category weapons such as Alfa Carbines are excluded from them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party opposes the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill for two main reasons. The first one is that we believe that there has been insufficient time for the regime, introduced under the Labour Government that introduced firearms prohibition orders, to sufficiently bed in. The process right through\u2014the select committee process, submissions, the information that we received from officials, nowhere in that information was there an evaluation of the existing scheme in terms of how it was working and whether or not there was any need to strengthen the existing regime. That is a real concern. We have a Government that is introducing warrantless, causeless search powers without even taking the time to evaluate whether the existing firearms prohibition orders scheme is operating well or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe truth is, they don\u2019t care whether it\u2019s operating well or not. They\u2019ve made an election promise and they want to deliver on that, irrespective of what is working well or not now, and irrespective of the actual impact it will make. Even more, as I\u2019ve pointed out, they\u2019re undermining the whole purpose of this by weakening the firearms registry and making A\u00A0category weapons potentially far more able to be accessed by criminals and far harder for our police officers to be able to track them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe second main reason that we oppose this bill is that we consider the new search powers to be too broad and they could be exercised without cause to suspect a person is in fact breaching their firearms prohibition order. The scenario we worked through is that if you had a friend and unbeknown to you they had a firearm prohibition order on them, if that person came to your house or was in your car, the police would be able to come in and search your whole house if the friend was at dinner. I might not know that person had a firearms prohibition order on them. The police only need to suspect that that person has a firearms prohibition order on them in order for a warrantless search of that entire premises. That is how this law currently runs, and that gives very wide and sweeping powers that are able to now be used in New Zealand once this passes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe firearms prohibition legislation passed under the last Government strengthened the existing provisions under search and surveillance to be able to enable those to work. In addition to this, new search powers were also introduced under the Criminal Activity Intervention Legislation Act, which enables police to apply for up to 14-day warrant from a judge when there has been inter-gang conflict or heightened tensions. It is this new provision under the CAIL, or Criminal Activity Intervention Legislation Act, that has worked very effectively in a number of situations right across New Zealand where there have been heightened gang tensions, and police have stated that this is a strong tool to have in the kit, to enable that. The benefit of that search power is it\u2019s confined to a 14-day period, not a carte blanche search for any time. It\u2019s when it\u2019s needed, when there\u2019s heightened tensions, those powers are able to be called upon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMany submitters during the time at select committee raised concerns that this search power was too broad and could be exercised without cause to suspect that a person was breaching the conditions of their FPO. The legislation would also mean, as I\u2019ve already pointed out, that someone who was in the company of someone is able to have their vehicle or complete house searched. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe problem we have with measures like this is it really is window dressing. It\u2019s window dressing to show that an increase of power is going to help police work more effectively, where, in the same day, we see close to 250 jobs being cut from Police. These are people who directly help the front line operate, who will have a direct role in supporting and enabling front-line police to be able to do their job effectively and get back out on the street. To not be tied up with paperwork and filling out warrants and doing all the work you need to prepare to go to court. Those people are being laid off, which means sworn police officers will now have to do much of the paperwork that FPOs will be\u2014the follow up work and the work around preparing for court and going to apply for one of these. That work will now be falling more to front-line police officers due to the fact that we\u2019ve had all of those non-sworn police workers now without a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why I feel that mechanisms like this\u2014increasing search powers\u2014are window dressing to show the shop front\u2019s looking great, but if you take a look behind the scenes, it\u2019s not working so well at all. In fact, there\u2019s going to be more and more pressure on our front line to have to do this work, as well as all of the other work required with all of those jobs being cut from within Police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe other point I would make is that it\u2019s going to be really difficult to identify the person as a gang member, and what is the process for demonstrating they\u2019re affiliated with the gang? There\u2019s a provision now that you\u2019re able to get out of a firearms prohibition order early, and they have to demonstrate good behaviour in order to do that. So this is for someone who\u2019s got an FPO on them. There\u2019s a new provision now, you can have that lifted. That\u2019s an area in the bill we still believe is quite unclear and we\u2019re unsure why they\u2019ve put that into place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI could go on in lots of areas, but the main point I would like to sum up with is really the stark contradiction in the suite of firearms reforms that we have proclaiming to get tougher on criminals to try and make sure they don\u2019t get their hands on dangerous weapons, but in the same suite we have changes to the regulations and safety requirements on our guns and ranges, which now means there\u2019s no recording of sales and ammunition. That\u2019s a loophole that has been exploited and used by a terrorist to train on a range. There\u2019s now a loophole there where a criminal can get hands on ammunition, and that previously didn\u2019t exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESecondly, as I\u2019ve already stated with guns not being included in the firearms registry, the other area which is still a real concern is that the Minister responsible still wants to see military style semi-automatic weapons\u2014have that ban lifted and have them able to be used on ranges and in competitions. What is the point of having an FPO if this Government is going to bring back military style semi-automatic weapons? It\u2019s just ludicrous. This is window dressing that shows this Government wants to look tough, but when we take a look under the hood, there is a big mess going on right here, and it\u2019s New Zealanders\u2019 safety and police officers\u2019 safety that\u2019s at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u00226bde7ef841c148ddb34d110c7246ec7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bde7ef841c148ddb34d110c7246ec7a\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, Madam Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to address this important question, the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill, in the second reading. It is an omnibus bill because it changes the Arms Act, the Sentencing Act, the Search and Surveillance Act. If we believe that the main object of this omnibus bill is to improve public safety, then we need to look at what it intends to do and what it doesn\u2019t intend to do, and what other actions the Government is taking, because this bill appears to be more about virtue signalling on gangs, really, than it is about guns or gun safety. It extends the firearm protection orders to any gang member who\u2019s been convicted of a crime under a number of Acts, but, as we\u2019ve just heard, gang members are already subject to firearm protection orders, and we need to understand and evaluate how well these are working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EFirearm protection orders and police search powers are already readily available, and this bill is simply going to open up communities to potential harassment\u2014harassment through targeting, through increased and unclear search powers, and a really, really vague, vague definition of gang members or associates. We can talk about the risks from structural racism that this poses to our communities. For example, it allows warrantless searches on anyone the police suspect of having a firearm protection order to search for guns. That\u2019s going to lead, inevitably\u2014inevitably\u2014to more harassment of M\u0101ori and Pasifika people, and we\u2019ve heard this recently from the police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThe other thing it does is allow a person to request their firearm protection order to be reviewed or revoked after five years. Currently, firearm protection orders last 10 years or so. This isn\u2019t necessarily a bad thing. It gives consideration to rehabilitation, and it seems to make sense, but we really need to consider whether this bill is needed at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI\u2019m a firearms owner, and recently I managed to put all my firearms through the gun registry\u2014because we\u2019ve heard from the Associate Minister that the gun registry is problematic. It was a very, very simple process, and the one thing I had to do was take one of my rifles to get a serial number stamped on it because it didn\u2019t have one. I know many people who are responsible firearm owners, and I know they\u2019re people who hunt pest species like deer, tahr, chamois, pigs, goats, rabbits, hares, for food or to do pest control to restore, to protect our precious taonga. But guns in the wrong hands can be used to harm people, and we all need safeguards and restrictions. I am sure that we all agree on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThis isn\u2019t necessarily problematic, but it is somewhat ironic that the associate justice Minister is doing so much otherwise to open up access to firearms through an unnecessary review of the firearms registry\u2014something opposed by the Police Association, something the police want to ensure keeps working, something that has been rolled out incredibly successfully and is making sure that we know what firearms exist and where they exist and who holds them, to weed out those people who are irresponsible, who are feeding guns to the criminal fraternity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve got an ex - gun lobbyist who has made it clear that the firearm protection orders are part of a wider gun reform with other actions including easing restrictions on gun clubs and ranges, where we might see people being able to access ammunition for weapons that might not be registered. This is, as has been pointed out, an incredible inconsistency, a contradiction. That\u2019s why this bill is really about virtue signalling, rather than about safety or concern about gun controls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EOur Green position, really, is that the fewer guns around, the better, but for those people who are responsible, we do need safeguards and restrictions. Gun ownership is a privilege, not a right. When I think about what this bill is trying to do, it\u2019s a focus on gang members,\u00A0which is unnecessary because they are already targeted by firearm protection orders, when we know that the biggest risk to life and limb historically\u2014well, we should be concerned about some of the extremists, political factions, the extremists that we\u2019ve had experience of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThink about the Christchurch shooter. The Christchurch shooter was somebody who was able to get hold of a gun\u2014there was no registry\u2014and practise at an open range. Imagine if that shooter could simply buy ammunition at a gun range. Terrorist attacks in this country have been primarily done by non - gang-affiliated extremists. This legislation makes no change to that. It does not make our community safer from these threats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d6b58cd254e49df9ebc4948ad45d338\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What a rubbish\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208369f8efa9d416a9e0e9eb1ea460443\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I can hear a member saying this is all rubbish, but, actually, you know, the evidence points to the truth in all of that, in that the Government also aims to make military-style semi-automatic weapons more available. This makes communities less safe, and personally, as a hunter, I don\u2019t see any need for semi-automatic centre-fire weapons. Saying this will make our communities safer while allowing more military-style semi-automatics contradicts the whole point of legislation in the first place. It would allow more weapons that present a greater danger to our communities into our community, so the inconsistency is something that we should be really concerned about. If we want to crack down on criminals, let\u2019s look at the existing firearm protection order rather than making it easier, because this is simply a nonsensical approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI think this bill is actually a distraction from this Government\u2019s pro-gun agenda, or at least a fraction of this Government\u2019s agenda, because we\u2019ve heard about the need for military-style weapons for sport. Now, I\u2019m not sure if members are aware of the sport that is being talked about here, but it\u2019s called the three-gun shoot. It\u2019s very popular in America. The three-gun shoot\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c08dfc7e9134221b6bc9959966e1f68\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. Without over-litigating the point, if I may, it\u2019s about firearms prohibition orders. I think the member is way wide of the mark with his remarks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a031fbad7e7547e8beec090072704f30\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, Mark Cameron, I didn\u2019t hear a Speaker\u2019s ruling or a number for you to actually quote what your point of order is based on. It is actually my role as the Chair of this House to rule things in or out of order. Continue, Scott Willis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2e4636c464244fdba5a3daa95f0ec14\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I was saying, this bill is actually a distraction from the Government\u2019s pro-gun agenda. Talking about the need for military-style centre-fire weapons to participate in a sport that\u2019s called the three-gun shoot demonstrates how we are risking becoming an American-style pro-gun society, because this is part of the reform that we have been hearing about. The firearms prohibition order legislation is part of a suite of reform that is aimed at changing gun ownership and who can own and use firearms in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThe three-gun shoot includes centre-fire weapons, with a .223 calibre rifle or something heavier, with up to a 30-round magazine; pistols; and shotguns, going through a range shooting targets that could be clay targets and could be human silhouettes. This is about combat-style training in our community. It is deeply disturbing that we are seeing a bill that pretends to be doing something that is going to protect and safeguard our communities when, in actual fact, it is ignoring what we already have and is instead ushering in something that is going to make our communities so much less safe, that\u2019s going to make society so much more dangerous, that is going to present so many more challenges to our police. That is so disappointing from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022c94c9aff6fef44baaac6f9497e60263a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c94c9aff6fef44baaac6f9497e60263a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the next member, can I just remind all of our members that if you\u2019re making a point of order, please state the Standing Order or the Speaker\u2019s ruling that your point of order is based on. I call on the chair of the Justice Committee, James Meager.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022808b0c0e40934a61affee2e2ace5d44a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022808b0c0e40934a61affee2e2ace5d44a\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I look forward to attending the parliamentary hunt with the previous speaker, Scott Willis, at the end of the year. Given his experience in firearms, I think it will be an interesting opportunity for not only myself but all members of Parliament if they\u2019re interested to find out a bit more about what hunting and shooting is about in New Zealand. It has a long and storied history in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m happy to bring a member a copy of the bill because I think it might be wise to refresh about what this bill actually does. The bill is strengthening firearms prohibition orders (FPOs). It is making it harder for certain types of people to access firearms. That is what this bill does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe bill extends on the changes made back in 2022 by the previous Government, by the Labour Government who brought them in. I suspect the reason that they brought them in is outlined in the initial briefing provided to the committee. I\u2019ll quote some figures from the initial briefing. That briefing said, from 2020 to 2021, there were 26 deaths and 625 injuries reported from violence involving firearms. Gangs and organised criminal groups drive a large portion of firearms harm. In one police investigation in 2021 to 2022, approximately 1,800 firearms were seized in an operation to disrupt the illegal possession and use of firearms by gangs and organised criminal groups. I suspect that is what the genesis of the firearms prohibitions orders were all about\u2014that and significant pressure from the Opposition at the time, led by Mark Mitchell, and I know that because I helped him draft his member\u2019s bill at the time. That is why we have the FPO regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe reason why this regime is being strengthened is because the coalition Government, and the parties that formed this Government, didn\u2019t think it was strong enough\u2014it needed some strengthening. That\u2019s what this particular bill is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EAs a committee, we worked very, very diligently and very hard to get it into a shape that we hope the House will support. I\u2019d like to thank all members of the Justice Committee for their work on this bill. We tackled quite a number of gnarly issues, but I would like to acknowledge the continued and consistent good work by the likes of Dr Duncan Webb, Ginny Andersen, Tracey McLellan, Tamatha Paul, and T\u0101kuta Ferris, who, as Opposition MPs, are always very constructive and very helpful members of the committee, and of course members on the Government side as well. So can I just acknowledge the work of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also just like to acknowledge the advice provided by the Ministry of Justice. We actually went back and forth on a number of issues, which you will see outlined in the select committee report, including the extent to which warrantless searches can be undertaken, the extent to which we are focusing on whether or not someone is an associate of an individual who is a gang member or someone who is associated with a gang\u2014we thought that was an important distinction\u2014and also tackling some of those issues around what is the threshold of police needing to suspect whether or not someone has an FPO. Actually, as a committee, we wrangled with that issue back and forth, and we actually strengthened that by changing it to \u201Creasonably believe\u201D rather than \u201Csuspect\u201D. Hopefully, that will relieve some of Mr Willis\u2019 concerns. I wanted to thank the Ministry of Justice for their advice. I thank the Office of the Clerk for their advice on the legislative quality and the Parliamentary Counsel Office for the drafting too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ECan I also acknowledge the 40-odd groups and individuals who submitted on the bill, and we heard from 11 individuals. Interestingly, there was roughly a fifty-fifty split, actually. For a Justice Committee bill, that\u2019s relatively unique. Generally, we have a lot of people who either really like or really dislike a bill, but this one was very evenly split, which I think represents some of the feeling across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ENow, in the couple of minutes I\u2019ve got remaining, I just wanted to touch on the key changes made in this bill, because that, after all, is the purpose of a second reading\u2014it is to look at what was discussed in the select committee, look at how the bill has changed, what conversations were going on, and whether or not the House accepts the recommendations of the select committee to make any amendments to the bill. Very, very briefly, as outlined before by the Hon Nicole McKee, Associate Minister of Justice, and some other members, we have changed that definition of whom can be issued with an FPO, and we\u2019ve decided to include people who are associates of a gang. To make that clear and to put this on the record for the Hansard in case this ever gets to court at some point: we consider this to be people who are associated by way of participating in criminal offending, or demonstrating support for the gangs activities and aims, or attending gang events. That\u2019s the kind of thing we\u2019re talking about. We\u2019re not talking about someone\u2019s legal adviser or work colleague or an uncle or an auntie. That\u2019s specifically what we\u2019re talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EWe made a few changes to when an FPO could be made. We thought that some of the original offences listed in the bill weren\u2019t strictly associated with the types of offending that we were thinking about. So those offences have been narrowed down to, in particular, crimes against people, crimes against property, and threatening and conspiring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThere are changes in there around varying and modifying FPOs. One of the significant ones we looked at was what happens when you are an individual who owns or is in possession of a property. Under the original bill, if you owned a property but weren\u2019t present, that property could still be searched in your absence. We thought that was a step too far in terms of warrantless searches, so we made the recommendation to remove ownership and amend new section 18AA(1)(c), which went more towards a person having influence, control, or direct access to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe final one I\u2019ll touch on is the conversation we had around what happens if you\u2019re staying in a hotel and you are subject to an FPO\u2014can the police then search every other room in that hotel? Of course, the advice that came back from the ministry was that, no, that would constitute, in all likelihood, an unreasonable search and seizure in that hotel. We always have the fall-back provisions of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act in terms of the reasonableness of search and seizure requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI think that generally covers the main changes to the bill. We think the bill has been strengthened in a significant way. I want to thank the members of the Justice Committee for their hard work on it and commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u00223159eaad4a284883b81c7ac7b8d56de7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223159eaad4a284883b81c7ac7b8d56de7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101l\u014D \u2018aupito.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u0022581b6b4adcb848d1b5a50068144b552d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022581b6b4adcb848d1b5a50068144b552d\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Before I speak on the bill, I\u2019d just like to acknowledge your new role, as well. Congratulations, and it\u2019s a pleasure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EI rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill. Firstly, this bill is about reducing firearm crime and that is something I think everyone in New Zealand would like to see done. It\u2019s also about reducing the risk around high-risk offenders, and a lot of the stuff that the bill touches on is around those high-risk offenders and actually putting restrictions on them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EJust as we\u2019ve heard from the chair of the Justice Committee, James Meager, we heard or received 40 submissions on this bill and heard 11 oral submissions. There were, as we heard, different views on whether we should make some changes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EAs we have heard from the chair\u2014and what I\u2019ll outline as I go through\u2014we have strengthened this bill in a number of ways. One thing I\u2019d like to say is this is another tool in the tool box for the police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263cfa6aed32f41dbaa76aa1907a4c8de\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: The old \u201Ctool in the tool box\u201D line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225972b05dfe9f487d91bad54afbf0c7f9\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE\u003C/span\u003E: As much as the Opposition seems, at the moment, not to want to give the police further tools to actually crack down on crime and gun crime and on gangs, this is another tool in their tool box. You would think everyone in this House\u2014in being an MP and looking after our constituents\u2014would want to look and give the police as many tools to control crime as possible. But, unfortunately, often in this House and, actually, through select committee, for some reason there seems to be some suspicion around what the police actually do in their actual role. I know, for one, that New Zealand First supports the police. We support what they do. Unfortunately, recently we heard from a member on the other side of the House, \u201CWho would you rather meet in an alleyway?\u201D. I know, for sure, if I was in an alleyway and somebody had a gun, I\u2019d rather the police officer would be the person with that gun\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f618026bba74c0d89879e60dd774578\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, than a New Zealand First member!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8277b8403b94ec0aab7419c905a0576\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014than a gang member. So this bill is about public safety\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229049a04baaa14500a9173f2bebbdeef1\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What are you doing in alleyways?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd8a3c87000a4daeb8c1dc3d9b685759\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m still getting heckled from the other side because they\u2019d rather see gang members in the alleyway than a police officer. But, as most New Zealanders would say, police officers are the right way to go about things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EPublic safety is this bill; it\u2019s about providing further public safety, it\u2019s about stopping violent crime, and it\u2019s about restoring law and order. Through the bill, we look at how disqualifications of an offender come about. If I just go to the bill: the disqualifications of an offender from obtaining a firearms licence prohibits the offender from accessing firearms and restricted weapons. It gives the examples that the offender must not associate with persons in possession of firearms or reside at or visit locations at which firearms are stored. That gives that further protection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EOne part that we haven\u2019t heard about is it also gives a review process and that\u2019s important too, because if somebody has a firearms prohibition order (FPO) against them, now, after a five-year period, there\u2019s actually a process where that can be appealed: it can be varied or revoked. That actually is a part of the bill that someone with a protection FPO against them hasn\u2019t been able to do in the past. That\u2019s actually the second part here in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard also from the chair of the Justice Committee about the \u201Cwithout cause\u201D search and how we\u2019ve strengthened that, too, around the word \u201Cbelieve\u201D\u2014the police must \u201Cbelieve\u201D that that person has a FPO against them before they can actually go in and search. But again, that is about public safety and actually providing that actual level of protection for our constituents. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports this bill because it strikes the right balance between enhancing public safety and ensuring fairness in its application. The amendments recommended by the Justice Committee improve the bill by focusing its reach on those who generally pose a risk without overreaching into the lives of innocent individuals. The inclusion of serious crimes under the Crimes Act, such as offences against the person and property, ensures that FPOs are applied where they are most needed, against those involved in violent or organised criminal activities. This targeted approach is in line with our commitment to effective and just law enforcement. Furthermore, the adjustments to warrantless search powers reflect a careful consideration of civil liabilities. By requiring a \u201Cbelief\u201D rather than mere suspicion, the bill ensures the police actions are grounded in a higher level of certainty, which is a critical safeguard against potential misuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, New Zealand First supports this bill because it is necessarily a step to protecting New Zealanders from the threat of gun violence, particularly in the context of gang and organised crime. It is a sensible, focused, and balanced piece of legislation that will contribute to a safer New Zealand. On that note, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea3571cb42c1421f87e8db47d5ee0adb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea3571cb42c1421f87e8db47d5ee0adb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call between Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the Green Party and I call on T\u0101kuta Ferris, for five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022593b5b15d8784252b4c89c61d3dd5fc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022593b5b15d8784252b4c89c61d3dd5fc8\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 ng\u0101 mihi nui ki te whakatairangatanga o te reo taketake o ng\u0101 motu o Te Moana-nui-a-Kiwa i roto i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 wiki. Ka t\u016B ake au ki te waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori e h\u0101ngai ana ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire e k\u012Bia nei ko te Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Madam Speaker, indeed huge congratulations to the promotion of the indigenous languages of the islands of the Pacific this week. I stand to give voice to the statements of the M\u0101ori Party relating to this particular bill called the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EMy colleagues have laid out a lot of the detail, so I\u2019m not going to labour and repeat what they\u2019ve said. But let\u2019s get to the point: this bill was the result and a response to this country\u2019s most horrific terrorist act that we\u2019ve ever had to suffer, really. It\u2019s just a brutal piece of our history and we shouldn\u2019t just fluff around the edges of it, because it\u2019s a critical piece of where this legislation came from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve just sat, even just today at its second reading, listening to the comments and the k\u014Drero that comes out, I just can\u2019t help but recognise how many times the word \u201Cgangs\u201D is used to make points relative to this piece of legislation. We shouldn\u2019t forget that the word \u201Cgangs\u201D is being used across a number of pieces of legislation in this House. Unequivocally, across all of those bits of legislation, that use of the word \u201Cgangs\u201D has been associated with a disproportionate negative effect that will be laid at the feet of te iwi M\u0101ori\u2014and I just want to remind everyone of that, because I just can\u2019t get over how easily it\u2019s just glossed over here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESpeaking of glossing over, we\u2019ve heard from this side of the House that the select committee process was a bit of a fifty-fifty\u2014it was pretty good one side, pretty good the other side. My view of that is that it wasn\u2019t really fifty-fifty. That\u2019s just a shining review that it doesn\u2019t actually deserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EIn as much as the chair of the Justice Committee thinks it\u2019s all good to make quips about parliamentary hunting trips as things worth discussing in this discussion, I think we should\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e59f316492c4a0da90d437d56dcd679\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the member to come back to the bill, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268703e4b654b4b2895a7aead8b24ad08\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, sure, I think we should come back to the bill. Obviously, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori does not support this bill in the slightest. Inasmuch as, under this law, gang members and their so-called associates\u2014a lot of the pieces of legislation, including this one, before this House, rely on the discretion of police. It\u2019s a power that\u2019s been exercised a lot in this country for a long time, and it has never favoured M\u0101ori\u2014ever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EAnother colleague over there in the Justice Committee is talking about the responsibilities of MPs to be here representing their constituents. Well, I can guarantee him that I\u2019m 100\u00A0percent here representing the constituents who voted me in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f0cbd16d3e0440d99a95cd9dbdb6404\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Just not gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa2f535e0ba144a9885d7f098e25dd6e\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yeah, OK, we\u2019ll get to you later. Yeah just not gangs\u2014just not gangs\u2014yeah, like the big blue gang over there or the gang of farmers up North, or any bunch of people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ELet me get back to the kaupapa or the k\u014Drero. So associates and the exercise of discretion\u2014it\u2019s never been exercised favourably for M\u0101ori. Within the remit of this bill\u2014me, I\u2019m a young man who has had to attend gang tangi. I could easily fall into the category of an associate of a gang member\u2014easily.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220585ec6aa7964ab7b6cdeb93f5b19c29\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Well, just don\u2019t have an FPO.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a8dc38d6c0e4ce085a073e68c727494\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, good on you, mate. Good on you, bro.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a76bf35e1d75406bb9150155d8abaaf1\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re neither of those things. Just talk about the FPOs\u2014maybe that\u2019s a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc370f62658644b8b1a5b71e30faa053\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS\u003C/span\u003E: Have you ever been to a gang tangi? Have you ever had to go to one? Oh, well, ka pai. Kia kaha ki a koe. Kia kaha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo, effectively, creating a double standard, leaving M\u0101ori as second-class citizens in their own country, the country in which they\u2019re the principal sovereign, they\u2019re the principal constitutional rights holder\u2014this is the treatment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ETo wrap up, I want to bring this House back to the reality that this House is responsible to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It is responsible to its constitutional partner, te iwi M\u0101ori; in fact, te iwi M\u0101ori are the sponsor of the Crown\u2019s constitutional position in this country and they deserve more respect out of this House and its laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u002202cc150d5b294aa7b8555d2f1d60c82c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202cc150d5b294aa7b8555d2f1d60c82c\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, Madam Speaker. Happy Tongan Language Week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022800a1d3a79b04ae18a2a91a7cf6b2f5a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101l\u014D e lelei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c97448e1b774456972856a4297cf4bc\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL\u003C/span\u003E: I rise on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa to oppose this bill. You\u2019ve heard our concerns pretty clearly from my colleague Scott Willis here today, but I really want to reiterate some aspects of the bill that raise pretty significant concerns for us. The big concern that we have is around the unjustifiably broad allowance for unwarranted searches if a police officer suspects that somebody is subject to a firearms prohibition order\u2014key word there: \u201Csuspects\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EJust to talk about guns in particular, our general approach and philosophy to gun ownership is that people should need to prove that they need access to firearms for specific purposes, for things like pest control or hunting, not allowing tonnes of people to have guns except for a minority. It should be the other way around. A majority of people should not have access to guns except for a very small minority who need them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EIt is our view that our communities are much safer when guns are not in them, period. There\u2019s no reason for it, and I don\u2019t want to live in a country like America where school shootings are completely normalised and enabled by their Government. Nobody wants to live in a world like that, and that\u2019s why we have the protections in place that we have. I want to express my deep concern about the potential relaxing of gun laws in Aotearoa, and I want to reflect that this is a concern that many people in our communities have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EBack to the bill. I want to talk about police powers now. The main concern that we have again is around those unwarranted searches of people who are suspected to be subject to a firearms prohibition order. Our big question is: how will the police determine whether someone is suspected of being subject to a firearms prohibition order? Given most gang members are M\u0101ori due to colonisation, due to abuse in State care, does that mean that those of us who are related to gang members could be subject to unwarranted searches as well? What about the safety of the wh\u0101nau and friends of gangs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve spoken to gang leaders in order to understand the implications of the legislation that has come through this House. Does that make me a suspected gang associate? What about situations where children are involved in a wh\u0101nau or household or in the car, and might also subsequently be traumatised by an unwarranted police search at any time of the day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThe reason I ask those questions\u2014the member might learn a little bit about what the reality is like for people who have been subject to unwarranted searches. Yesterday, we got a report, the Understanding Police Delivery report, which came out and confirmed the presence of bias and structural racism within the police, so it\u2019s not far-fetched that some of us are suspicious about the way that police utilise the powers that they have access to. Our concern remains that if police officers have too much discretion, the bias that was confirmed yesterday, that even the Police Commissioner himself accepts\u2014even though the Minister of Police and the Minister of Justice deny that it\u2019s even happening in the first place\u2014then how are we to trust that police will be able to discharge their duties under this bill and discharge the powers under this bill without adding to the structural racism and the bias that our people experience at the hands of the police? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EUntil there\u2019s an acceptance, because I know Mr Arbuckle brought up the comments made around gang members and police in dark alleyways\u2014people might not like the way that that was phrased, but what it was trying to demonstrate is that there is genuine distrust from many of our communities towards the police. Until the Government decides to accept that that is the reality for our people, then we\u2019re not going to get anywhere. I do actually want to acknowledge the important work that Andrew Coster has done as the Police Commissioner, because at least when he saw that evidence and at least when he read that report, he accepted some level of responsibility and he said that the police have got work to do. But I tell you this: this bill undermines the work that the police are trying to do to rebuild trust within M\u0101ori communities and that is why we do not support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u002285a8f4d513ee403785dc229e3ddc6908\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285a8f4d513ee403785dc229e3ddc6908\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Contrary to what you\u2019ve just heard\u2014that this is undermining police\u2019s work\u2014police are very happy with the direction of this. Police are very happy with the direction of this Government. In fact, when we were on the Justice Committee just this morning, talking to the Secretary for Justice, who also chairs the Executive Board for the Elimination of Family Violence and Sexual Violence, I posed the question: will the Public Service target of 20,000 fewer people being victims of an assault, of robbery, or sexual assault by 2029 help sharpen his board\u2019s focus and priorities, and will it strengthen the work of the multi-agency and interdepartmental across Government - approach? And the Secretary for Justice\u2014go back to the Hansard, go back to the video\u2014said, \u201CYes and yes.\u201D He said it with a gleeful look on his face: \u201CYes and yes.\u201D He was so excited about the fourth\u2014and Tom Rutherford knows these Public Service targets better than anyone\u2014Public Service target, which was about reducing the number of victims of an assault, robbery, or sexual assault by 2029 by 20,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThis Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill is part of a suite of tools that we\u2019re putting in the tool box. The member over the other side said, \u201COh, they always keen talking about tools and tool boxes.\u201D Well, guess what! We\u2019re putting more tools in the tool box to sort out crime in this country. More tools in the tool boxes. And if he wants to know\u2014\u201CWell, we were on top of crime in the Labour Party.\u201D\u2014can I give him this statistic from the New Zealand Crime and Victims Survey, and why we are going with this firearms prohibition order (FPO) approach. The New Zealand Crime and Victims Survey showed the number of people in New Zealand who were victims of an assault, robbery, or sexual assault\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222427a17041a440c993df006ca5ad1e94\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What do your North Shore stats say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223474e1ec05ac41b8ae9bb5ac1d04d1d1\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Shanan Halbert\u2014from 2022 to 2023, jumped by over 20,000 people, to over 185,000 New Zealanders that are victims. This piece of legislation, Shanan Halbert, goes straight to reducing that. The justice department, the justice secretary, is right on our side. Wind back the tapes\u2014they\u2019re excited; the Public Service targets. You guys should have thought of Public Service targets, because the justice ministry is very excited, the police are very excited, the Executive Board for the Elimination of Family Violence and Sexual Violence are very excited, and they\u2019re also very pleased with the FPO approach that we are taking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAll the amendments to this legislation that went through the select committee\u2014we\u2019ve heard a differing view, haven\u2019t we? We\u2019ve heard a differing view, but guess what? All the amendments were passed unanimously\u2014unanimously. How\u2019s that? So there you go. Were they there, were they asleep, or did they just agree with all the amendments? Well, I would err on the side of the third proposition that they agreed to all the amendments, because they are recorded unanimously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s go back to the bill and its purpose\u2014all about reducing firearms crime and the effects on communities. It seeks to do so by enabling FPOs to be made and monitored against the wider group of people whose behaviour and actions indicate and pose a high risk of violence. The focus is on specifying new qualifying offences for members and associates of a gang and organised crime. We\u2019ve heard again, haven\u2019t we, that we seem to be\u2014why are we always focused on gangs? Well, they increased by 3,000 in five years\u2014over 51 percent under that administration. Man, did we have a mandate at the last election to get on top of gangs. Public meetings on gangs filled up every town hall around New Zealand. New Zealand has had an absolute gutsful, and this Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill goes to the heart of that. Specify new qualifying offences for members and associates of a gang or an organised criminal group; establish a review process to enable a person who is subject to an FPO to apply to the court to have their FPO varied, modified, or revoked; and the other third part of it: give the police additional warrantless search powers to monitor the person subject of an FPO.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThis is a great piece of legislation. This is a suite that\u2019s key to the Government\u2019s agenda. This is something we have a big mandate on. This is why we won the election. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022722d41d590014da48b9b2c30f0d8600e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101l\u014D e lelei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022af69cbe087b64e658e7ef7717c666d35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af69cbe087b64e658e7ef7717c666d35\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, Madam Speaker. And I want to see that note! I think it said, \u201CCameron, stop dribbling. Sit down.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284ffe80c60e74e75a307f809d020386a\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: No, it had a love heart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cec7a359d26413bb898374325078850\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: No, it might not have said that. It said, \u201CIf you don\u2019t know what you\u2019re talking about, sit down.\u201D\u2014\u201CIf you haven\u2019t read the bill, sit down.\u201D Or perhaps it just said, \u201CFor God\u2019s sake, your taxi is here.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook, the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill is actually a serious bill. I\u2019m going to put that little bit of levity aside and talk about this, and I really want to focus on warrantless searches, because invasion of privacy is important. It is very easy to say, \u201CWe hate gang members and their privacy doesn\u2019t meet the same standards or have the same protections as ours.\u201D Don\u2019t get me wrong; on this side of the House, the vile conduct of gangs is abhorred as much here as it is over on the other side of the House. But we do need to be very, very cautious when we\u2019re talking about warrantless searches, because we\u2019ve got to remember the invasion of privacy, the invasion of personal space, of home, of vehicle, of personal property should be by law and not by discretion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why we have warrants, because warrants are a judge saying the threshold is met\u2014that there is a reasonable grounds for a police officer or other authorised person to enter into someone\u2019s home, to disrupt their personal space, and to search for some evidence of wrongdoing. Warrantless searches do away with that check entirely, right? They do away with it entirely. All we have now is a member of the executive, essentially\u2014a Government agent\u2014a police officer in this case, a constable, who is entitled to exercise their own judgment. It\u2019s rule by discretion and not rule by law. That is a very, very dangerous thing. It\u2019s not to say it\u2019s never appropriate. We know that when police are in hot pursuit or they\u00A0think there\u2019s a crime occurring on the premises, they already have the power to have\u00A0a\u00A0warrantless search, and that\u2019s appropriate. That\u2019s the balance that\u2019s been struck. But, here, there\u2019s no issue of an immediate and violent crime going on. It\u2019s that they\u2019ve breached an order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EBut wait, it gets a bit worse, and I think this is really important. The Act does not say, \u201CIf there is a firearms protection order in place, there\u2019s a power to have a warrantless search.\u201D It says, \u201CIf a constable has reasonable grounds to believe\u201D. You don\u2019t even have to be sure. Now, if you\u2019re going to bust into\u2014and let\u2019s be absolutely upfront about this; these are not going to be doors knocked on at 3 o\u2019clock in the afternoon on a sunny Saturday. These will be catching people by surprise in the dark of night. And there\u2019s a reason for that, right? You do want to surprise people. You don\u2019t want to forewarn them. I\u2019m not even sure\u2014because the Justice Committee changed the word \u201Creasonable grounds to suspect\u201D to \u201Creasonable grounds to believe\u201D. Certainly in the committee stage I want to interrogate exactly what that means, because it\u2019s still a very vague test. It\u2019s basically an honest reckon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not sure we should have invasion into private spaces on the basis that there\u2019s an honest reckon that an order is in place. Either it is or it isn\u2019t. If my house or your house, or the house of a member of the other side of the House, gets busted into in the dark of night because they thought\u2014but we\u2019re wrong\u2014that there was a firearms protection order, then that\u2019s an illegal search. It should be recognised as an illegal search. It shouldn\u2019t be just, \u201CSorry. I was empowered to do it because I honestly thought on some grounds, but not very good grounds, that you had a firearms protection order in place.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s just expand that, because the other one that really bites is a vehicle. If there is a vehicle and the driver or any other person in it has a firearms protection order, that vehicle can be stopped and searched. Now, that has the same problems, but the next stage is concerning because anyone in it can be searched as well. I know the picture in our mind, and the picture in our mind is of a car, probably a beaten-up one, with a group of thugs driving round. But that\u2019s not what the test is. It\u2019s anyone in it. A spouse or a child can be searched. I think it was T\u0101kuta Ferris who referenced the good work that the police have\u00A0done talking about biases within their own system and the fact that M\u0101ori and other people of colour are much more likely to be picked up, and when discretionary decisions exist, they tend against M\u0101ori. That is a concern, and that is a concern when you have powers like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course, the chair of the Justice Committee, James Meager, mentioned that the right to search premises is loosely defined: an entire premises that a person occupies or controls. Now, those words do have some meaning, but we did run into the problem of, when a person is at the pub or occupies a hotel, exactly what the bounds of that are. I\u2019m not comfortable that the power is constrained by the statement in section 18AA(1) that the warrant is \u201Cfor the purpose of checking whether the person is complying with the conditions of the FPO\u201D. Yes, this is a so-called tool in the tool box. It\u2019s a pretty significant tool. It\u2019s a very extensive power, and I\u2019m concerned that police, given this power, will use it as a pretext.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe know that police do like to keep close tabs on people who they think are criminal offenders or likely to be criminal offenders, and they\u2019re entitled to do that in given ways. The vagueness of this warrantless search power is, essentially, if misused, a licence for harassment, and that\u2019s a real concern. I do think we need to think extremely carefully about that. And you\u2019ve got to remember this is, essentially, a civil power. If you go back to the Arms Act and see the basis upon which it can be imposed, although it\u2019s almost penal in nature, the test for whether it should be imposed or not is on the balance of probabilities. It\u2019s a very significant curtailment or infringement of liberty that a court imposes simply on the balance of probabilities. I think we need to hold that in mind as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI do think\u2014and Mr Brewer, I think it was, sort of guffawed that the Labour Party and others agreed to amendments but opposed the bill. I can\u2019t use the language I\u2019d like, but our view is that we worked hard to make this bill as least bad as we could. But it\u2019s still pretty bad. We still oppose it, and we oppose it for two reasons, as Ginny Andersen very eloquently said. The first is that extremely wide warrantless search power. The second is this: firearms protection orders were put in place by the last Government. They haven\u2019t been in place very long. There\u2019s not very many of them out there. They seem to be doing a pretty good job. Why do we need to crank up and do this kind of legislation, which is very heavy-handed\u2014if it\u2019s in the tool box, it\u2019s a sledgehammer\u2014when we haven\u2019t even seen whether the other ones are working?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI concur with some of my other colleagues on this side of the House who have said it\u2019s a bit of window dressing. On the one hand, you\u2019re saying we\u2019re going to crack down on guns and where they are, and on the other there\u2019s a narrative from one party in this House, the ACT Party, that they\u2019re going to liberalise gun laws. On the one hand, we want to know where the guns are; on the other hand, we don\u2019t want a gun register. On the one hand, we want to be able to enter someone\u2019s house and search for these guns; on the other hand, we\u2019re going to have military-style automatics which people can do sports shooting with. Now, that is a double narrative. That is cognitive dissonance, and it doesn\u2019t work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI appreciate some of my colleagues on the other side of the House, the National Party, are trying to be moderate in these things, but in respect of this particular part of their legislative programme, the little magenta tail is wagging that blue dog. Kia ora, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7066929c11b4700b58f073a26e6a69c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7066929c11b4700b58f073a26e6a69c\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to take this call on the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill. We\u2019re in the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to start my contribution today talking about warrantless searches that the previous speaker, Duncan Webb, was mentioning. I respect the fact that we need to ensure that people\u2019s privacy and protections are indeed protected. But, in this instance, if you don\u2019t mind, Madam Speaker, I\u2019d just like to turn our memories back to 2020, to a bill by the name of COVID-19 Public Health Response Bill that was pushed through the House, where it allowed for a private dwelling or marae\u2014for police to enter on reasonable grounds to believe that people gathered there in contravention to the COVID rules. I don\u2019t know why it\u2019s OK for public health to have warrantless search powers but not for public safety. So I just want to remind us about what happened back then. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003ETerms, like \u201Cwindow dressing\u201D\u2014also, it was referred to by someone across the House that this law will make our society so much less safe and that it\u2019s virtue signalling instead of gun control. Yes, if you don\u2019t believe it, please go back and watch the recording. All I\u2019d like to ask the House is: what\u2019s so wrong about restricting illegal access to guns? I\u2019d like to ask the House: what\u2019s so wrong with trying everything that we can to keep our neighbours safe? I\u2019d like to ask the House: what is so wrong about sending a strong message to gangs that intimidation and gun violence is not OK? That\u2019s what we\u2019re intending to do with this bill, amongst other bills. I have no shame in commending this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022 data-id=\u0022cbe38e06811249a4a5b44675ba60130f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d14b1afe-2069-41e4-96fa-c8dc81a991a4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cbe38e06811249a4a5b44675ba60130f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call on Glenn Bennett for five minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6a838dce37545899d184463b3d5cf7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6a838dce37545899d184463b3d5cf7a\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Just responding to the previous National Party speaker, Rima Nakhle, who just finished their contribution. Very different circumstances; very different times; COVID legislation\u2014and we had challenges in that space and we were really open to it. Obviously a one-in-100-year pandemic comes around rarely and extreme measures had to be taken, which is excessively different to what this piece of legislation is all about. I\u2019d rather be speaking this afternoon, I guess, about gun prohibition\u2014how do we rid this country of guns?\u2014but I understand that is not a conversation that could be had, and there are purposes that guns are used for in New Zealand, and so I understand that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve heard the rhetoric; as we\u2019ve heard the speeches over the last 45 minutes, there\u2019s been lots thrown around, obviously, about getting tough on crime, lots of stuff around gangs. That rhetoric was around \u201CLet\u2019s get tough on crime\u201D and this is another tool in that mysterious tool box that they talk about. But we really need to be talking about how do we get tough on the causes of crime. How do we get tough on the causes of gangs? That\u2019s a conversation I\u2019d rather be having in this House rather than just tinkering around with some legislation which hasn\u2019t been in for long\u2014legislation that hasn\u2019t been around a long time that we\u2019re actually tinkering around with this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EAs my good friend and colleague the Hon Dr Duncan Webb mentioned earlier, it\u2019s the search warrants that are a real challenge and a real issue for us. It\u2019s around that \u201Cwithout cause\u201D\u2014without cause. That is cause for concern, and it should be. The communities that I\u2019m part of\u2014and the world that I\u2019ve been part of for many, many years\u2014is one of those communities that regularly has the police visiting; that regularly has a knock on the door from police to deal with issues going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EI know that there are challenges within the communities I live in\u2014there are challenges\u2014but also there are vulnerabilities. There\u2019s this gung-ho attitude and there\u2019s these\u2014you think they\u2019re all just thugs and gangsters, but at the at the base of that, they\u2019re actually human beings and often vulnerable human beings and often those who actually don\u2019t understand the systems and how they work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why this legislation is an attack on our vulnerable and is an attack on those who aren\u2019t as articulate to know the law and how it works. In terms of police overreach, we as a Parliament\u2014as a sovereign\u2014need to ensure that we are making sure that our police force\u2014those who are on the streets, ensuring to keep our streets safe\u2014are also protected from themselves and protected from their overreach and what they are able to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWe cannot support this legislation. As I\u2019ve listened and heard from ACT, as I\u2019ve heard from National, as I\u2019ve heard from New Zealand First, I really feel that this is around weakening the gun laws that are currently in place. I feel like it\u2019s tinkering and it\u2019s just focusing on minor issues instead of addressing the root causes of crime, instead of addressing the root causes of gang violence, which they talk about often.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWe cannot support this legislation. We would ask that the other side of the House does consider what getting tough on the causes of crime could look like, getting tough on the causes of gangs. How do we actually deal with those things? Not just throw around \u201Ctough on crime\u201D soundbites, but actually look and dig deep into what is broken fundamentally in our community of Aotearoa New Zealand. We cannot support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0d06bc9cc6e4a929bd25b802a9b11ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0d06bc9cc6e4a929bd25b802a9b11ee\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Well, there it is. If we hadn\u2019t heard enough rubbish from the other side, this bill is now an attack on the vulnerable\u2014those poor, vulnerable, violent criminals. Those poor, violent, vulnerable gang members. That\u2019s what this bill is an attack on, according to them. We heard it from the Green Party, \u201CLeave the gangs alone; it\u2019s not fair\u201D. They actually doubled down on their comment that they\u2019d rather see the weapons with gang members than with police members. That\u2019s the attitude that we\u2019re up against. That is what we had six years of. That\u2019s how we got to this position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud that we\u2019re actually doing something practical about it, supporting our police who are out there, making our communities safer. This bill\u2014there\u2019s two key parts. The first part is about who can be subject to a firearms prohibition order. There\u2019s been a lot of discussion on that. I don\u2019t want to dwell on that too much, but I\u2019m OK with us targeting them towards people who have been convicted of serious violent crimes, people who are associated with criminal gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EThe second part, that\u2019s had a lot of discussion, is around the ability for police to conduct\u00A0warrantless searches. I have to start by coming back to the bill itself. It would be nice\u00A0if someone from the Green Party read it, but if you read section 18AA, it is where a\u00A0constable has reasonable grounds to believe that a person is subject to such an order\u2014not\u00A0who suspects\u2014which was the entire substance of the last Green Party contribution; it is where they are believed to do it. Then we had some contradictory position from Labour around \u201CWell they\u2019re going in at 3 o\u2019clock in the morning and they won\u2019t have time to research it\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EThese are deliberate operations. They do have time to prepare. Yes, police have to make difficult decisions in the operational environment. That relies on us enabling our police to make decisions to act in the best interests of our community\u2014I, for one, completely back our police to do that\u2014but they can\u2019t do it unless we give them the framework, unless we give them the tools and the legislation. That\u2019s what this bill is doing. It is enabling police to go out and target the people who need to be targeted the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EThis should not be about the rights of convicted criminals, the rights of members of criminal gangs but the rights of every member of our community to live in a safe community, to live free from fear of violent crime, of illegal use of illegal firearms. That\u2019s what this bill is doing. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00225cd9463d0f48419ca52042167383ea92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cd9463d0f48419ca52042167383ea92\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E M\u0101l\u014D e lelei, thank you, Mr Speaker. OK, it\u2019s the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill, and today, we\u2019re at a little bit of a crossroads, I think, on this legislative journey, because on one hand, it\u2019s a moment where we\u2019re actually making decisions that potentially have a profound implication on the safety and on the wellbeing of various communities, but probably not in the way that we think so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re here to discuss the Government\u2019s proposed changes to firearms protection orders (FPOs), but I think we have to be really clear from the outset, and let me be clear from the outset, that these changes aren\u2019t what they seem. They\u2019re not robust, and we\u2019ve heard from several people today that have pointed out reasons as to why that\u2019s true. They\u2019re not safety-enhancing measurements that the Government\u2019s contributions to date would have you believe, and, instead, actually, they\u2019re just a bit of a smokescreen. They\u2019re a diversion from the real and dangerous agenda that\u2019s at play here, which is simply a loosening of the gun laws to make military-style semi-automatic weapons more widely available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ENow, when we begin by acknowledging the existing framework, the FPOs, as has been discussed, are already in place, or the laws surrounding it\u2014the current conditions\u2014are already in place and they are functioning effectively. As my colleague the Hon Dr Duncan Webb said, they haven\u2019t been there for that long and we don\u2019t have enough empirical evidence or enough data to show whether this is doing as good a job as it could be. But why bother ramping that up and doing something else before we\u2019ve had the chance to discuss that or just to really get to the bottom of whether that was working? By doing this, we\u2019re introducing another whole set of variables that actually have detrimental effects on other people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThese orders are a critical tool that the courts currently use to prevent individuals\u2014particularly those involved in criminal activities. The current legislation, we believe, certainly, on this side of the House, is comprehensive. It covers not only the firearms but also ammunition, restricted weapons, and other related items. So I think that the system is working as is. It\u2019s designed to protect the public by ensuring that those that actually do pose a risk\u2014because, let\u2019s be clear, there\u2019s some people that do pose a serious risk\u2014are kept away from firearms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWhen we think about it, we could ask why, therefore, is there need for change. I think the answer is quite simple, and that\u2019s just that there isn\u2019t one. The Government\u2019s proposed amendments add almost nothing new. They extend the FPOs\u2014sure\u2014to a broader group of people, including those over 18 who are either members of gangs or organised crime groups, or they may just be mere associates, or in the wrong place at the wrong time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s supposed to be for those convicted of certain offences, but, let\u2019s be honest, this is not going to be about that. It\u2019s not groundbreaking, and it\u2019s open to misuse. It\u2019s open to all sorts of things going wrong, and the tools to protect our communities already come from the Search and Surveillance Act. The police already have, I think, the powers to conduct warrantless searches to the extent at which we should be affording them the opportunity to do so in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThis is not entirely new, but it steps over a line without actually fixing something that it purports to do, and I think that that\u2019s a dangerous combination. It\u2019s certainly not innovative. It\u2019s not going to do any of the things that I think it has been said that it will, but it introduces a level of uncertainty and a level of potential risk that I think is just not worth it. That, again, brings us back to what the true intent is behind these changes. This is one of four bills, or potential bills, that will be making their way through this House. Together, they\u2019re leading us in a direction that I don\u2019t think, in retrospect, we\u2019ll be very pleased with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s real agenda here is to loosen gun laws. I think that that can\u2019t be said in a light way, and that shouldn\u2019t be perceived in a light way. The Government\u2019s real agenda is to loosen gun laws in a way that will make things more accessible. Now, that might end up being an unintended consequence, but if you don\u2019t take notice of the unintended consequences and if you don\u2019t take notice of the advice and of all the information, that\u2019s what can happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just conjecture and it\u2019s not just me saying that; it is, in fact, supported by police advice that these weapons will inevitably end up on the black market. Who benefits from that? Actually, it\u2019s the gangs and the criminal organisations that you\u2019re purporting to crack down on\u2014so the very people that we\u2019re supposed to be trying to protect our communities from\u2014and the irony of that is actually quite palpable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe Government claims that they\u2019re tough on crime, and we\u2019ve heard them say that on many occasions. There\u2019s a lot of verbose talk about it, but when push comes to shove and they\u2019ve actually got opportunities to put bills through this House and to create legislation\u2014when you actually look at it, it doesn\u2019t do what it says it\u2019s going to do. Their actions will put more dangerous weapons in the hands of criminals, and that\u2019s not something we should take lightly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ENow, let\u2019s consider the practical implications. The bill proposes to extend the FPOs, and we\u2019ve talked about that today and other people have gone through the specifics of that, but it doesn\u2019t achieve anything. It creates this illusion of action while actually doing nothing to address the root causes of gun violence. I know that other people have said that, but we should think about that more deeply. It\u2019s not a time to be shallow. It doesn\u2019t do what it says it\u2019s going to do, but it provides the opportunity for the Government to point to a specific example of them being tough on crime. While that might not seem like a bad idea to many, it also prevents them from doing the things that they should be doing to be tough on crime. It\u2019s a false sense of security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not all just benign things\u2014it\u2019s not doing anything\u2014but, as I said, it also introduces some variables that actually can have some pretty profound implications, not only on individuals and not only on certain communities, but it\u2019s a slippery slope to degrading the types of standards that we should have in some of that surveillance and some of that police work. I think that the best example of that is surely the bill introducing without-cause search powers. Almost every speaker on this side of the House has chosen to highlight that, and that\u2019s no accident. That absolutely is our number one concern when we think about this. On the surface, it might sound like it\u2019s a small thing, but when you start looking at the ways in which it could be misused, it\u2019s quite frightening to think of the ways that could manifest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ESo, as I\u2019ve said, if this bill was making our communities safer, we wouldn\u2019t have a problem with it, but because it\u2019s not, we can\u2019t support the bill. It\u2019s not about preventing gun violence; it\u2019s about creating a distraction\u2014a distraction from the fact that the Government is quietly working to loosen gun laws and making our streets more dangerous, not less, and this bill does nothing at all to address the issues around gangs or around all of the things that the National Party, in particular, has campaigned on so hard for. Instead, the bill weakens the very protections that keep most of those communities safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIn contrast, Labour in Government was the one that introduced the firearm registry, and that was a critical tool in reducing gun crime over time. We\u2019re the ones that have taken actual, meaningful steps to address the root causes of violence and keep those dangerous weapons out of the hands of the people that we don\u2019t want to have them\u2014out of the hands of the people who could very easily misuse them. When we look at that contrast, it just beggars belief that the National Party are being led by the ACT Party, here, and introducing a piece of legislation that they must surely know doesn\u2019t do what they\u2019re being led to believe in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, I really think that anybody listening and people considering this\u2014and I want to acknowledge the people that submitted on this bill and gave their time to lend their expertise and their lived experience. It was informative and it was really interesting to hear something from as many different perspectives as we were able to during this process, and I urge people to think about this bill for truly what it is. It\u2019s a dangerous distraction from the real issues at hand\u2014not just in the manifestation of this bill, but what\u2019s yet to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe Government has proposed changes to FPOs that I don\u2019t believe enhance our society in any way, shape, or form\u2014in fact, they undermine it\u2014and let\u2019s not be swayed by empty gestures. This is one of several bills that are going to be finding their way through the House in this genre, in this particular sector. I think it\u2019s the first time that we have a real reminder that we should be looking through the lens, not be blinkered, and realise the fact that this is another empty gesture and a hollow promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EOur commitment actually must be to the safety of those communities, and on this side of the House, we are committed to the safety and security of all New Zealanders. So we don\u2019t support this bill in its current form, we don\u2019t believe it achieves anything at all, and we do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022e08553560bde4955b7ab775c3913c1e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e08553560bde4955b7ab775c3913c1e1\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to rise as the final speaker on the second reading of the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EI just want to acknowledge, firstly, the chair of the Justice Committee, James Meager; it\u2019s his birthday today. I\u2019m sure he got plenty of well wishes from around the House this morning on the Justice Committee, plenty of nice words and kind remarks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EIn the second reading, it\u2019s really important to focus on what took place at the Justice Committee on this bill as it went through\u2014remembering that it was introduced on 1\u00A0March this year, referred to the committee on 5 March, and reported back on 26 July. The committee received 40 submissions\u201415 on behalf of organisations; 20 as individuals. There was a real split on the submissions that were received\u2014some in favour; some against. It was really good for the committee to work through and iron out those details as they worked through the business of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be really clear: this bill is about reducing firearms crime in New Zealand and the impacts it has on the community, by enabling firearm prohibition orders to be made and monitored against the wider group of persons whose behaviour and actions pose a high risk of violence. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002266ad41ac1b244179babcf618b4000f02\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000423\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed2850c7b6894a18bfced049f8fa7da8\u0022\u003ECourts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c5d7cf47d3e24bcf9f2cefc2b779db99\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022729d914d22f34cb8a20c5050d52ddeda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022729d914d22f34cb8a20c5050d52ddeda\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to present a legislative statement on the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c347f81fc8b7426aa0c6e7cd3c4add30\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is none. That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022485f9549fcb54e6f8471306fa45dd3b5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill now be read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to begin this speech by talking about the select committee. I\u2019d like to thank the chair and the members of the Justice Committee and take the opportunity to wish the chair a happy birthday today. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge and thank all of the people who have been involved in this work for their thorough consideration of the bill. I also want to thank the submitters who took the time to express their views on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAt the Justice Committee, 16 written submissions were received from interested groups and individuals. Four of these submitters also made oral submissions. The submitters raised many useful points, some of which I expect the Ministry of Justice will consider as part of the first-principles review of the Courts (Remote Participation) Act. Submitters were largely in favour of the changes in the bill and the continued use of remote participation in the courts. Some submitters raised concerns about the use of audio links and remote participation more broadly. I am confident that the existing safeguards in the Act and the new safeguards in the bill will ensure that the use of remote participation is in line with the principles of natural justice and will uphold the rights of parties. The Justice Committee has not recommended any changes to the bill. This reflects the targeted nature of these amendments. More substantive suggestions for change were made by submitters; however, these were beyond the policy intent of the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to touch briefly on why this bill is needed. This bill is returning to the House and it signals another step towards fulfilling the Government\u2019s commitment to enable more remote participation in court proceedings. This work forms part of the Government\u2019s core priorities to restore law and order. As we know, our courts are under pressure and delays in court processes have a significant impact on court participants, particularly those who are vulnerable. The drivers for these delays are complex and have been exacerbated by events such as the COVID-19 pandemic. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to improving court performance and access to justice so that people can move on with their lives faster. The greater use of remote participation can help us to achieve this goal. In addition, justice sector agencies and the judiciary are\u00A0continuing to work on a wide range of other initiatives to address delays. This includes\u00A0improving case management, reducing adjournments, and providing for same-day sentencing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does, in order for me to remind the listeners at home watching, is it makes three discrete changes to improve and clarify the legislation governing remote participation in court proceedings. Two amendments are to the Courts (Remote Participation) Act and one is to the Criminal Procedure Act. Firstly, the bill gives victims and their support person the option to observe criminal trials and sentencing remotely instead of in person, if suitable technology is available and a judicial officer or court registrar considers this to be appropriate. This gives victims a safer and easier option to attend these hearings, as it enables them to avoid the stress and the potential for re-victimisation and intimidation of attending court in person. Victims may also benefit from reduced travelling time and those associated costs. However, I anticipate that some victims will still want to attend in person and, importantly, they are still able to do so if they wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe second change allows for the use of audio links, such as telephone conference calls, for appropriate court proceedings. Audio links will not be used in criminal proceedings that defendants attend, because it is critical to the delivery of justice that defendants can engage effectively in proceedings that affect them. Likewise, proceedings under mental health legislation that will determine whether a person needs to be compulsorily detained and treated cannot be held using audio links if the person is required to attend the hearing. The use of audio links will increase the number of people able to participate remotely. Many people in the community who are involved in court proceedings may not have access to audiovisual technology. With this change, they will still be able to avoid the time, cost, and effort of travelling to court for short procedural hearings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe third change makes permanent what was a temporary amendment to the law during the pandemic. That change clarified that remote participation in criminal proceedings and remote observation by the media and the public are consistent with the principle of open justice. Open justice enables public scrutiny of criminal proceedings and promotes public understanding of and public confidence in the criminal courts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThese changes together strike the important balance between providing more efficient and accessible ways to participate in court proceedings, fair trial rights, and the fundamental constitutional principles of judicial independence. The bill maintains judicial control over the use of remote participation in courts and recognises that it will not always be appropriate or possible for technology to be used in some court proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe first-principles review that\u2019s being undertaken is a review of the Courts (Remote Participation) Act. This review aims to identify a clear, enduring regulatory framework that will enhance access to justice, promote efficiency, and enable more remote participation in court proceedings without compromising the interests of justice. The Ministry of Justice will be engaging with the judiciary and other agencies as the review progresses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill is one step towards our wider goal of enabling more remote participation in court proceedings. Passing the bill is part of the Government\u2019s third quarter action plan for New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3903545ec904c46b46ccfd185eeaf55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3903545ec904c46b46ccfd185eeaf55\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. First of all, I suppose I should wish James Meager a happy birthday. He\u2019s had a tough morning, so I thought it\u2019d be appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook, I recall when this came to first reading. We supported it then and we support it now, but we did it cautiously and we remain\u2014well, I certainly remain\u2014cautious about how we use technology in the courtroom. Having said that, of course it is a very powerful tool, and we know through our annual reviews and more widely that the courts are groaning under the weight of their workloads. The last Government and this Government are working on moving cases more quickly through the courts, particularly the family and criminal jurisdictions, but across the entire court framework, and I absolutely commend that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI do think that we need to think in a principled way about the use of technology and particularly remote participation in the courtroom. It is actually quite interesting that in terms of the actual utility of looking at someone face to face to tell whether they are telling lies or not\u2014whether they\u2019re trustworthy or not\u2014all of the evidence says it\u2019s one of the most unreliable factors. Nevertheless, we still have a strong sense that important parts of legal proceedings should be done in person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIn terms of the criminal aspect, which is the one, of course, that I was most concerned with, there\u2019s kind of two aspects to it. First of all, it can only occur in proceedings where the defendant is not required\u2014procedural matters where the defendant is not required to attend. That could be scheduling, it could be evidential matters, could be any range of proceedings. But the really important second thing is \u201Cand the defendant \u2026 [doesn\u2019t want] to attend\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAny defendant who wants to attend a criminal proceeding is entitled to attend, so they can go and do things which are really important, like listen to their lawyer talk to see whether they think they\u2019re of a reasonable quality; look at the judge and try and understand what the judge is thinking or which way they\u2019re leaning. They\u2019re all really important things for defendants\u2014and see the prosecution witnesses and advocates and what have you as well. Having said that, in terms of the criminal framework, it\u2019s a relatively narrow exception in respect to those procedural matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIn terms of enabling victims to participate remotely\u2014that is to say, observe trials remotely\u2014that\u2019s a great innovation. The idea that a victim can essentially switch the proceeding off if they like is actually a really good thing, because for many victims it\u2019s both cathartic and important and traumatising in equal measures to be part of that proceeding. It\u2019s actually a really good innovation that they can do that. So absolutely concur with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIn terms of making sure\u2014and it\u2019s a funny thing that anyone can walk into a criminal trial just out of a sense of a curiosity and watch it. But that\u2019s actually a fundamental principle that justice\u2014in this jurisdiction and largely around the world in developed nations\u2014is done in public. Anyone can go and have a look, see what the charges are, what the evidence is, how the procedure goes, and actually be reassured, in doing that, that we have a robust and fair justice system. That\u2019s a presumption across the justice system, not just criminal justice. There\u2019s carve-outs for family law and other matters, but it\u2019s actually a general presumption. Making it clear that open justice is both consistent with, and must be maintained in respect of, audiovisual, remote participation proceedings is also a really good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt was a good committee process in the sense that we went through it, we listened to the various experts and submitters and essentially were reassured. I won\u2019t trouble the House any longer, other than to say it\u2019s a good step. This is what we should be doing wherever we can, working across the House to address things which might not be particularly exciting but are actually really important. Certainly, speedy access to justice for everyone fits within that category. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00228f2a0e4156074f85b01248fef0af2d27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f2a0e4156074f85b01248fef0af2d27\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that that motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc13c946d18147ff904bda0c022f1f85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc13c946d18147ff904bda0c022f1f85\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Ng\u0101 mihi, kia ora koutou. I rise on behalf of the Greens to affirm our support for the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill, because it makes a change that may result in criminal proceedings being less traumatising for victims going through the justice system, and may reduce travel time and travel costs for victims as well. More broadly, we support centring the needs of victims and survivors throughout the justice process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s probably already been touched on throughout the debate already, but this bill allows victims and support people to remotely observe a criminal trial and sentencing if they wish to, and other criteria are met\u2014for example, a judicial officer or court registrar does not determine that it is contrary to the interests of justice. This is likely to be better for some victims, less re-traumatising, and reduce travel times and costs and therefore accessibility. The bill allows the use of audio links, such as teleconferences for remote court proceedings and civil proceedings. These can only be used where the defendant is not required to and does not wish to attend the hearing. Finally, the bill makes permanent a change during COVID-19, which is to clarify that courts should be able to conduct hearings remotely or virtually and that this does not impact on open justice\u2014as in, public\u2014and the media can still observe those proceedings remotely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThis is really great, and begins to address the issue of court backlogs. We know that there are a significantly high number of cases backed up within the justice system, and backlogs can be really traumatising to victims. It is positive that the Government is making changes to try and reduce this backlog without infringing on the rights of defendants in the justice process. When looking into court backlogs, I found that 142,000 court events have been delayed because of the pandemic since March 2020. That is 142,000 out of 2.4 million appearances, such as sentencings, bail applications, and pretrial hearings. Court backlogs can cause significant distress to survivors. One survivor of sexual violence, Rosie Veldkamp, said that as a result of the delays, she felt like giving up on her case. She said, \u201CMy mental health was getting worse. I was just always upset and honestly felt like it was never going to happen.\u201D This point was echoed by independent victims\u2019 advocate Ruth Money, who said, \u201CThe trauma involved in waiting for a trial or waiting for a sentencing, or even a bail hearing\u2014it distracts you.\u201D So, yeah, anything that can improve outcomes for victims, we support that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EIn the Strengthening the Criminal Justice System for Victims survey report, they found that 77 percent of victims in a 2018 survey disagreed or strongly disagreed that victims\u2019 views, concerns, and needs are listened to throughout the justice process. But the big thing that I want to focus on is the way that this bill might improve one aspect of the justice system, for victims navigating the system. There are ways that we can make trauma-informed adjustments to our courtrooms to protect and uplift the mana of victim/survivors. In Backbone, a national coalition of survivors of violence against women in Aotearoa New Zealand\u2014in their survey in 2017, 496 victim/survivors from Aotearoa New Zealand reported their experiences of family court proceedings. According to the guide, 58 percent of the survey participants said they had been threatened, intimidated, or physically assaulted by their abuser while attending court-related appointments or hearings. By including remote access, we will reduce the chances of this happening, if a victim/survivor chooses to participate remotely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ETrauma isn\u2019t just present in a few unique or exceptional cases; it\u2019s a pervasive theme running through our entire criminal legal system. By recognising that trauma and actively accommodating people who have experienced it, our courts have the potential to break cycles of harm in people\u2019s lives and in our communities. In a quote from the Centre for Justice Innovation, the Chief Victims Advisor report to the Government in 2019 said that we could look to making changes to the physical layout of the courtrooms to increase security and protection of victim survivors. This could include creating safe, blocked-off waiting areas for survivors, as well as secure entrances and exits to courtrooms. Some survivors have called on the courts to implement totally separate facilities for victims in the courthouse, to keep them away from their perpetrator to prevent violent encounters or traumatisation. Some further suggestions for trauma-informed approaches to courtrooms include lowering the judge\u2019s bench to not have it towering over survivors, having well-lit car parks, and warm, welcoming artwork. These suggestions can help make a courtroom be more inviting and less sterile to traumatised survivors. We want courtrooms to be safe places, particularly for victims, children, people who do not speak English, and people with disabilities, as has been recommended in Turuki! Turuki!, by the Safe and Effective Justice Advisory Group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EI want to finish off my contribution in the House today by talking about my own work that I\u2019ve done supporting survivors of sexual violence. A few years ago, I supported a large group of women who had been victims of sexual assault and harassment by local musicians here in Wellington. When I was supporting those women, we talked extensively about what pathways they had available to them. They could either go down the legal pathway route and press charges, or there were other pathways working with different organisations that respond to harm and support survivors through their healing. Some of them chose to go down the legal pathway, but some of them also chose not to because they did not feel safe within the justice system, they didn\u2019t want to participate in a system where they felt that the odds were stacked against them, and they felt that they wouldn\u2019t be believed. Not all people who experience harm choose to take up a criminal proceeding against the perpetrator, and a big reason for that\u2014and a core reason behind the #MeToo movement\u2014is that victims often feel the justice system re-traumatises them. They feel that they will not be believed if they come forward. So any small steps that we can take towards making our justice system safer for victims are important steps. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022948e03c1117f47f1a6be7d93fa1d1dd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022948e03c1117f47f1a6be7d93fa1d1dd1\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2b934884b584d369c27f135ab5ab2ec\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Happy birthday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0ac5923325c4207a36a03f52496ca7e\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I acknowledge all the well-wishers today\u2014that\u2019s probably about enough joy to be spread my way. I\u2019d just like to spread a bit of joy to some of my friends who share a birthday today as well: to Jamie and James who are mini-me\u2019s\u2014sons of colleagues of mine who share my birthday\u2014Richard Menzies; Charles Henley; Ollie Newton, who I went to university with; and my high school science teacher, Ian Willis; and Tim Costley\u2019s sister\u2014happy birthday to you all. What a great day\u2014what a great day it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022112dd482262143a8aafd0fee21af659e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Something was in the water that year!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a1864b8f8744ddf850872e2e82c92b7\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: And I hear there\u2019s an impromptu happy birthday later on. But this is a good, solid bill, supported across the House. It is traditional to thank the Justice Committee members for their hard work on this bill, so once again I\u2019d just like to reiterate my thanks to Dr Webb, the Labour, Greens, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori members for their constant constructive and supportive work on the Justice Committee, and also to colleagues on the Government\u2019s side. Can I thank the 16, I think, submitters who made written submissions and the four who presented to us orally. Such is the nature of this bill that everyone was in favour and it is one which is well supported across the House. Can I just acknowledge the work of the Justice officials across both Parliaments who have worked on this bill also.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe bill does a couple of simple things: it continues a series of Government initiatives to try and modernise and speed up the court system, because, as the saying goes, justice delayed is justice denied. And one of the big issues we have in our justice sector is the delays felt through the court system. This will go one small way to doing that, so I congratulate the Minister for bringing the bill through the House. The other way that we will be achieving this is through Te Au Reka, which is the court\u2019s digitising system, and the Justice Committee has an open briefing on that that we are going to be following as part of our own scrutiny plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EJust finally, I\u2019d like to touch on the fact that the bill has gone through without changes. It\u2019s very difficult, as the chair of a committee whose job it is, to outline to the House the changes and the additions that were made to a bill when it comes back without any amendments. I\u2019ll do my best just to briefly touch on some of the other submissions made by contributors. People did raise some concerns around the ability to roll this out across different courts and some of the resourcing that would be required. Some submitters said it didn\u2019t go far enough, and actually we needed to improve the accessibility into the courtroom. I think that\u2019s a fair point, because there are some physical constraints about our courtrooms that mean that some individuals still aren\u2019t able to fully participate in the justice system. And I include things like wheelchair access for people who may want to be sitting on a jury and other such accessibility issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI think, in saying that, it\u2019s a bill that\u2019s well supported across the House. It will go some way to unclogging parts of our justice system. It will mean better protections for victims to participate in legal hearings without having to be physically present. So with that I would like to support the bill through to committee of the whole House stage and through the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3caad8b4a7e4095990147210d61b75b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call, which doesn\u2019t look like it\u2019s going to happen. So the next one on the bill is\u2014oh, sorry. Apologies, the Hon Casey Costello\u2014sorry if I jumped ahead into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4f3f0654e704bca82704718d193a42d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4f3f0654e704bca82704718d193a42d\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, I\u2019ve blended in with the furniture! I rise to speak on behalf of New Zealand First\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9e34bbb9f1a4fb7bad2fc7a499af2f6\u0022\u003EGreg O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: In a cloud of smoke!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaf25aeda1784f8d876e129ed1d3f5c5\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E:  Oh, perfect! It won\u2019t be, soon. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on behalf of the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill. New Zealand First believes in practicality. We support front-line efficiencies and we are about practical approaches, and this bill definitely offers a practical solution to reduce court delays and enhance the efficiency of the justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI spoke last night regarding the impact of victims of crime and the power and control relationships that occur and the stresses of going through a justice system. I think it\u2019s timely that we look broadly at all the opportunities that we have to reduce the stresses and pressures of a justice system. I think this is a step in the right direction to allow us to provide some alternative practical options as to how we have witnesses and victims not only participate in the court process but also view and watch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, with the nature of the level of crime now, courts have become highly secure environments, and I think, as the member across the House said earlier, they\u2019re not the easiest place to be or to visit or to be part of a court hearing. Just with the nature of the environment and the type of people, it does become onerous, especially if you don\u2019t know the system that you\u2019re entering into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EI think this bill provides a great opportunity to broaden the way in which we move forward using technology to our advantages, but particularly remove some of the constraints and delays that occur through a court process. Anyone who has been either a witness or on a jury or part of supporting an offender or any process that you go through in the court system, it is extremely stressful and torturous when you go to the hearing and, for a variety of reasons, court hearings get deferred and delayed, and you have to go through the process repeatedly. Having worked on court escorts in my past, where you\u2019re transporting people to and from the court, there is nothing more frustrating than when you have had a defendant who was in custody have to sit in the court cells for a long period of time, only to have the hearing deferred, then transport them back. It is an unpleasant environment for everybody involved. Any opportunity to reduce the risks and the pressures on both defendants in the court system should be welcomed, and I think this is an impressive step in that direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EWe have, as we\u2019ve heard repeatedly today, a massive backlog. As we know, justice delayed is justice denied. This opportunity to look at ways of building up efficiencies in the system is impressive, but also the opportunity to be able to observe the court system and support an open justice system. I think this House has proven that an open access democracy is supported brilliantly through online participation\u2014that people at home can observe without having to go through the process of coming into the House. I think that democracy has been well served by that. I think this is another step of ensuring that we can move forward with the times, using technology to our advantage and improving our justice outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First believes in taking a pragmatic approach, and this is a pragmatic approach, ensuring that no one is excluded from court processes due to technological barriers. I appreciate that there will need to be some capital investment as we move forward to ensure that these standards are maintained and that systems are protected. We believe the bill maintains judicial discretion, ensuring that remote participation is used appropriately and does not compromise the fairness of court proceedings. The bill clarifies that remote hearings do not undermine the principle of open justice and ensures the transparency for the public and media.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003EBy making permanent the temporary pandemic era provisions, the bill guarantees that remote hearings can continue without compromising the public\u2019s right to observe justice being done. I think, as we move forward with technology, we can gain significant advantages and we can see\u2014and I have visited custody units that use audio-video links well, and it is well received by defendants who are able to expedite their court hearing quickly. It was proven successful during the pandemic period and I think we can continue to build on this with the programme of work moving forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports the bill to third reading, as it balances modernising court processes with safeguarding the rights of victims, defendants, and the broader public. It is a pleasure to have yet another piece of legislation that we have come together to support for the benefit of our communities and law and order generally. We commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00228b6e205d96714dd6b28d5accb5b6ce86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b6e205d96714dd6b28d5accb5b6ce86\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022f765a9f6b8d641358c911c366045a33d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f765a9f6b8d641358c911c366045a33d\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori \u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 an\u014D hoki t\u0101tou. Aku k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113nei pire ka tukua ki te reo M\u0101ori, n\u014D reira mena kei te hiahia \u0113tahi ki te whakarongo ki \u0113nei k\u014Drero, meinga ko t\u014D whakarongo ki te puare o t\u014D taringa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EAra ake nei au ki te tuku i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire e k\u012Bia nei ko te Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill, ng\u0101 whakaaro me te anga o Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori m\u014D t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ETuatahi ake kei te t\u016B tautoko a Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori me t\u0101na e \u014Dh\u0101k\u012B ake nei, e oati ake nei kia tika ng\u0101 m\u014Dtika o te p\u0101rurenga i roto i ng\u0101 tikanga whakahaere i ng\u0101 k\u014Dti i t\u0113nei whenua. K\u0101tahi r\u0101 te whai tikanga h\u0101pai tangata, te whai tikanga whakatika i te h\u0113, me \u0113nei \u0101huatanga e riro mai ai te ngako o t\u0113nei mea te tikanga ture i a te tangata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EMe te manaaki an\u014D hoki i te hunga e aup\u0113hia nei, e p\u0113hingia nei r\u0101nei e te kaihara m\u0101 roto i ng\u0101 tikanga whakahaere o ng\u0101 k\u014Dti. N\u014D reira ka pai te kawe mai o t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 ture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EKia tiki atu au, t\u0113r\u0101 \u0113tahi taha o te ngako o te whakaaro o t\u0113nei ture kei te akiaki m\u0101tou o Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te K\u0101wanatanga kia wh\u0101nui ake, ne, te k\u0101kano o t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 ture. Ar\u0101 ko taua k\u0101kano ko te \u0101ta whakatika i ng\u0101 h\u0113 o te whare o Te T\u0101h\u016B o te Ture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EMe t\u0101 m\u0101tou m\u014Dhio kua roa, kua roa te whare o Te T\u0101h\u016B o te Ture e p\u0113hi nei, e ngaukino nei i runga i te iwi M\u0101ori. Kua roa t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga i roto o Aotearoa, k\u0101ore i tua atu i a Moana Jackson m\u0101 ki te whakam\u0101rama i \u0113nei \u0101huatanga. M\u0113n\u0101 e hiahia ana he paku w\u0101hi kimi k\u014Drero, rangahau, nama r\u0101nei hei atawhai, hei tiaki i a koutou i roto i t\u0113nei mahi whakariterite ture m\u014D te motu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira kei te akiaki m\u0101tou i a koutou kia p\u0101nui, kia p\u0101nui i te whakatikatika i te huarahi o te ture. Kia h\u014Drapa te whakatika i ng\u0101 huarahi o te ture, i te mea e m\u014Dhio pai ko t\u0113nei mea, te kaikiri \u0101-whare, he \u0101huatanga kua roa, kua roa e noho nei i roto i ng\u0101 tikanga ture o t\u0113nei k\u0101inga nei, o Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira kia kaha r\u0101 ki a t\u0101tou i roto i t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EHoki nei, kapo ake nei au i t\u0113nei k\u014Drero a t\u0113r\u0101 taha e mea ana ko te \u201Cjustice delayed ko te justice denied\u201D. An\u0101 ko te iwi M\u0101ori ia e roa ana e tatari ana kia kite i te justice n\u014D roto mai i t\u0113nei Whare. Tukuna ki a r\u0101tou m\u0101 runga an\u014D i te aroha o t\u0113nei Whare. Me taku m\u014Dhio i t\u016B mai t\u0113nei Whare i runga i te aroha o te M\u0101ori, me tana kupu whakaae, whakamana i te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira kia hoki rawa mai taua \u0101huatanga, taua aroha ki roto ki ng\u0101 ture o t\u0113nei Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 pea ka ea haere te w\u0101hi ki a t\u0101ua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira kia wetekina nei ng\u0101 aup\u0113hitanga kua roa e kaikiri nei i runga i te iwi M\u0101ori kia tika te takoto o ng\u0101 ture katoa e whai w\u0101hi ai ng\u0101 mokopuna, ng\u0101 whakatipuranga i roto i ng\u0101 whakahaeretanga o t\u0113nei motu, atu i te whare herehere, atu i te tukituki ki ng\u0101 pirihimana, atu i te noho ki ng\u0101 whare k\u014Dti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EMe taku akiaki an\u014D hoki kia rite, kia rite te hanga o \u0113nei momo Whare ki te nuinga o te iwi ka tae atu ki a ia. Kua taetae au ki roto i ng\u0101 k\u014Dti o ng\u0101 rohe, hanga P\u0101keh\u0101 tonu, P\u0101keh\u0101 tonu te \u0101hua o ng\u0101 whare katoa. Me \u014D r\u0101tou tikanga whakahaere, \u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga. Engari mehemea ko te nuinga o te tangata ka tae atu ki \u0113r\u0101 whare he M\u0101ori, kia M\u0101ori mai te \u0101hua. Kia whakaahua atu i te w\u0101hi ki te M\u0101ori, \u0101, i te w\u0101hi ki te P\u0101keh\u0101 i roto i t\u0113nei mea, te whakahaere i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 whenua e noho nei t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira k\u0101re au m\u014D te t\u014Dwai i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, m\u014D te t\u014Droa r\u0101nei i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, engari kia hoki nei au ki t\u0113nei kupu \u0101ku: kei te tautoko ake, \u0101, kei te akiaki i t\u0113nei taha, t\u0113nei taha t\u014Dna katoa, kia h\u014Drapa haere te whakatika i ng\u0101 tikanga ture o t\u0113nei Whare. Kei te tuku m\u0101tou i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire ki te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[Greetings, Mr Speaker, and greetings to us all. I will deliver my speech on this bill in the M\u0101ori language, so if anyone wishes to listen to these statements, I encourage you to put your earpiece in your ear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI rise now to speak on this bill, known as the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill, and to share the views and position of the M\u0101ori Party on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EFirst, the M\u0101ori Party supports this bill and its commitment to ensuring the rights of victims are upheld in the judicial processes of our courts in this country. This is essential to upholding human dignity, correcting wrongs, and ensuring that the essence of this thing, of justice is available to all. And also to care for those who are oppressed, suppressed or harmed by offenders through the judicial processes. Therefore, we welcome this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI would like to highlight that there are aspects of the intention of this bill that we, the M\u0101ori Party, encourage the Government to expand on, right, the seed of this legislation. In particular, that seed is to focus on addressing the systemic issues within the Ministry of Justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EWe know that for a long time, the Ministry of Justice has oppressed and mistreated the M\u0101ori people. This has been an ongoing issue in Aotearoa, and no one has explained this more clearly than Moana Jackson and others, if you are seeking information, research, or statistics to assist and protect you in the preparation of this legislation for the nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo, we urge you to examine and amend the paths of the justice system. Let these amendments be widespread, as we know well that institutional racism has long been a part of the justice system in this home of ours, New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ETherefore, let us be strong in addressing this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI want to echo this statement from the other side that \u201Cjustice delayed is justice denied.\u201D And M\u0101ori have been waiting a long time to see justice from this House. Let it be delivered to them with the compassion of this House. I know this House was founded on the compassion of the M\u0101ori people, with their assent and authorisation of the Treaty of Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ETherefore, let that characteristic, that compassion, return to the legislation of this House. Perhaps then, the balance can be restored for us all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo let us dismantle the longstanding oppression and racism that has burdened the M\u0101ori people, so that all laws are just and fair for our grandchildren and future generations to ensure that they can participate in the governance of this country in ways other than in prisons, clashes with the police, and sitting within the court system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003EI also urge that these institutions be shaped to reflect the majority of those who come into contact with them. I have visited courts in different regions, and they all are very P\u0101keh\u0101, in their appearance and their procedures. However, if the majority of those entering these courts are M\u0101ori, they should reflect the M\u0101ori people. It should represent both the M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101 presence in the governance of this land we live on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003ESo I do not wish to repeat any comments nor prolong my speech, but I return to this point of mine: we support this bill, and we urge this side, this side in its entirety, to make broader corrections to the judicial processes of this House. We commend this bill to the House, and thank you all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u002234258ca0c6684432b35bc42ca0e8fd1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234258ca0c6684432b35bc42ca0e8fd1f\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. T\u0113n\u0101 koe, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa i roto i t\u0113nei ahiahip\u014D. He t\u016B t\u0113nei mai i te R\u014Dp\u016B K\u0101k\u0101riki ki te tautoko, n\u014D reira me reo M\u0101ori ahau i t\u0113nei w\u0101 kia whai ahau i taku t\u016Bng\u0101ne, i a T\u0101kuta, ki roto i t\u0113nei t\u016B whai \u0101hua me te pire e p\u0101 ana ki te Court (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ET\u0101ku e kite nei, t\u0113nei mahi a te k\u014Dti he mea whakam\u0101tautau, he mea whakaw\u0101 i te hunga M\u0101ori. \u0100e, ko te nuinga ko te M\u0101ori. An\u014D ko te hunga e patua ana i \u0113tahi w\u0101 he M\u0101ori tonu. Ko t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 raru kua kite tonu ahau i roto i Te Taitokerau, he tawhiti rawa te w\u0101hi k\u0101inga o te wh\u0101nau i ng\u0101 whare k\u014Dti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EKi roto i Kaitaia, Te Hiku, t\u0113tahi ki roto i Te Kaikohekohe, an\u014D ki roto i T\u0101kiwira me Wh\u0101ngarei. He tawhiti rawa m\u014D w\u0113tahi. N\u014D reira t\u0113nei pire he mea pai m\u014D Te Taitokerau kia noho te wh\u0101nau ki te tautoko i t\u014D r\u0101tou tangata e k\u014Drero ana ki te kaiwhakaw\u0101 me te kore e mataku.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EAn\u014D, m\u014D te hunga k\u014Drero, te hunga kaik\u014Drero, kia whai p\u0101nga ki roto i \u0113nei mahi kia k\u014Drero m\u0101 runga ipurangi kia whai w\u0101hi, kia whai reo r\u0101tou ki roto i ng\u0101 whakaw\u0101kanga a te k\u014Dti an\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ET\u0101ku e whakaaro nei e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei pire, kua rite, e rite ana ng\u0101 k\u014Dti m\u014D t\u0113nei tirohanga hou, t\u0113nei mahi hou ki roto i te k\u014Dti. An\u014D ko te p\u016Bnaha; kua rite te p\u016Bnaha m\u014D t\u0113nei t\u016B whai \u0101hua hou. Koia t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 p\u0101tai e tautoko ana au i taku whaea, a Casey Costello, me \u014Dna \u0101wangawanga kei te rite te k\u014Dti m\u014D \u0113nei mahi hou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EI roto i te w\u0101 o te mate Korona, e kitea ana ko w\u0113tahi o te nohoanga a te kaiwhakaw\u0101 ki runga ipurangi. I p\u0113r\u0101 m\u0101tou ki roto i te K\u014Dti Whenua M\u0101ori, e p\u0113r\u0101 tonu ana. Ka noho te wh\u0101nau ki mua i te kaiwhakaw\u0101 mo ng\u0101 take whenua nei, n\u014D reira kua tae ki te w\u0101 ko t\u0113nei t\u0113tahi pire e taea ai e te wh\u0101nau te tautoko, ki te whakawaha i \u0101 r\u0101tou k\u014Drero ki mua i te kaiwhakaw\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ERau mano t\u0101ngata, rau mano t\u0101ngata ki roto i Te Taitokerau e hanga t\u014Dmuri ana n\u0101 t\u0113nei mea, te mate Korona, an\u014D m\u014D te noho ki te whakaw\u0101 ki roto i te k\u014Dti. N\u014D reira mai i t\u0113nei ture hou e taea ai e ng\u0101 kaiwhakaw\u0101, me k\u012B ng\u0101 wh\u0101nau, te whakatutuki i te noho tahi ki roto i te k\u014Dti kia oti katoa ng\u0101 herenga ki te k\u014Dti. Me taku whakapae ko te hiahia kia tuku te M\u0101ori kia haere te M\u0101ori ki te mahi i t\u0101na mahi kia kore he here ki roto i t\u0113nei ture a te P\u0101keh\u0101, an\u014D ki roto i te ture a \u0113nei o ng\u0101 k\u014Dti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ET\u0113tahi atu kaupapa kua kite ahau ki roto i w\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 rangahautanga, te rangahau, te tangata taea ki roto i te k\u014Dti, k\u0101tahi ka mataku i te mea ka kite r\u0101tou i te nanakia, i te tangata i t\u016Bkino i a ia. N\u014D reira ko t\u0113tahi mea nui ki a au, i te mea kua kite au i \u0113tahi wh\u0101nau, kahore r\u0101tou e puta ki roto i te k\u014Dti m\u014D te nohoanga n\u0101 te mataku. T\u0113nei mea te noho \u0101-ipurangi nei, ka taea e te wh\u0101nau me te tangata te whakapuaki k\u014Drero ki mua i te kaiwhakaw\u0101 kia kore r\u0101tou e mataku.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EAn\u014D m\u014D te wh\u0101nau tautoko, t\u0113r\u0101 pea ka noho te wh\u0101nau tautoko ki roto o Muriwhenua. Kahore r\u0101tou e w\u0101tea ana ki te tae ki roto o Whang\u0101rei n\u0101 te kaha tawhiti, n\u0101 te nui o te utu, engari i taea e r\u0101tou te noho ki runga ipurangi ki te tautoko i t\u014D r\u0101tou wh\u0101nau, te tangata, aha raini.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EM\u014D te mahi tahi ki te r\u014Dia. \u0112nei r\u014Dia whai rawa nei, e awhi ana, e mahi ana ki w\u014D t\u0101tou wh\u0101nau, taea e r\u0101tou te noho tahi ki te wh\u0101nau ki te tutuki i \u0113nei mahi m\u0101 runga ipurangi kia iti tonu te utu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira koia ahau, te R\u014Dp\u016B K\u0101k\u0101riki, e tautoko ana i t\u0113nei w\u0101. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E[Greetings. Hello to you, and also greetings to everyone here this evening. This is a speech from the Green Party in support, so I will speak in M\u0101ori at this time to follow my brother, T\u0101kuta, in this stance on the Court (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EAs I see it, the work of the court is to test and judge M\u0101ori people. Yes, the majority are M\u0101ori. Even those being harmed at times are also M\u0101ori. One of the issues I continue to see in Te Tai Tokerau is how far away family homes are from the courthouses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EIn Kait\u0101ia, Te Hiku, one in Te Kaikohekohe, and another in Dargaville and Whang\u0101rei. These are all too far for some people. Therefore, this bill is a positive move for Te Tai Tokerau, allowing families to support their loved ones as they speak to the judge without fear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EAdditionally, for those who speak, for the speakers, it provides an opportunity to participate in these proceedings online, allowing them to have a voice in court hearings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EIn my view, regarding this bill, they are ready, the courts are ready, for this new perspective, this new approach within the court system. Also, the system; the system itself is prepared for this new way of doing things. That is one of the questions, and I support my elder, Casey Costello, and her concerns about whether the courts are truly ready for this new method.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EDuring the time of the coronavirus pandemic, we saw judges holding hearings online. We experienced this in the M\u0101ori Land Court, and it continues. Families sat before the judge to address land matters, so now it\u2019s time that this bill allows families to support and present their cases to the judge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThousands of people, thousands of people in Te Tai Tokerau, have experienced delays due to the coronavirus, including delays in court hearings. So with this new law, judges, as well as families, will be able to come together in court and fulfil all the obligations. I would say that the desire is to allow M\u0101ori to go about their work without the constraints of this P\u0101keh\u0101 law, or the law of these courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EAnother issue I have observed in some research is the fear some people have in court when they see the rascal, the person who harmed them. Therefore, one important aspect for me is that I have seen families who do not appear in court for their hearing because of fear. This ability to participate online allows families and individuals to speak before the judge without fear.\u00A0\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EFurthermore, for the support of families, it may be that the supporting family members live in Muriwhenua. They might not be able to attend in Whang\u0101rei due to the distance or the cost, but they could participate online to support their family member or whoever it may be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ERegarding working with lawyers, these well-resourced lawyers who support and work with our families could sit with them to address these matters online with less cost involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003ESo that is why I, on behalf of the Green Party, am in support at this time. Thank you.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u00222c0bdff834e445e1816150b049865117\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c0bdff834e445e1816150b049865117\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to rise in the second reading of the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill, and it\u2019s great that uniformity and support has broken out on this Government bill across the House and around the House, Minister Watts. It\u2019s great to have Minister Watts and Minister Bayly here to witness this historic moment, where everyone is in support of a Government bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThinking back and looking back on where this has come from, let\u2019s have a look at the New Zealand Herald story \u201CJustice Minister Paul Goldsmith on reducing court delays as Government key priority\u201D The first opening line of this New Zealand Herald story in January: \u201CJustice delayed is justice denied: 500 days for a jury trial, 18 months for victims of serious crime for their day in court.\u201D\u2014and wait for it\u2014\u201CThe new Government is taking a laser focus on improving the timeliness of the system.\u201D The New Zealand Herald, by an objective journalist. We are delighted that that laser focus is turning now into a Government bill, it\u2019s got its second reading, and it has support around the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EAnd just to reiterate the key features of this: this is where, going forward, the justice ministry and our court system are going to use audiovisual technology, where appropriate, to ease the pressure that we\u2019ve talked about extensively this afternoon on courts and increase access to justice. It means more options for attending court for victims and other participants such as lawyers. The proposed measures\u2014and this is an important one; I know it\u2019s very important to Rima Nakhle, who is our number one advocate for victims on our Justice Committee\u2014will also help reduce the risk of victims being intimidated or revictimised, which can happen, as we know, and examples have been given when they are having to attend court in person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe Justice Committee has worked very diligently and conscientiously under the leadership of Justice\u2014James Meager\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224a7486925b546aaa9b4e4a408864e30\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: He got promoted for his birthday!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022760442a69782402097ec923bd7ba19c7\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the only way we\u2019re going to get him out of Rangitata is to promote him! I commend the second reading of this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002247f693460dde41b28e1493e05be17b94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247f693460dde41b28e1493e05be17b94\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. One of my myriad duties as the member of Parliament for \u014Ch\u0101riu, Assistant Speaker, and many other jobs I have here, is I\u2019m also the Labour spokesperson on courts, so it gives me great pleasure to take this opportunity to examine this piece of legislation and to do so in what would appear to be a climate of agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHowever, I am particularly reflecting on the comments of the last speaker, Cameron Brewer, that this is a relatively simple bill that does bring changes to the system\u2014I don\u2019t think anyone would actually doubt that. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to quite have the impact of turning the justice system from being the quite sluggish, very slow system it is now\u2014a very careful use of words\u2014to something that is going to race our defendants and speed justice up, because it simply won\u2019t do that. But what it will do is ensure, particularly looking after our victims, to give them some opportunities to be heard elsewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBefore I go into the further details, I think it\u2019s an important thing to remember about the core of our justice system, and Mr Meager will know that as a lawyer, the number one court or the registrar\u2019s court\u2014it has different names these days, but it\u2019s actually the entry point into the justice system, and it\u2019s a very important part of it. In each town and city there is this court where, when you run foul of the law or you need the assistance of the law, things are channelled through this place and we have a judge who sits there, so there\u2019s an understanding of the equality of the system so that everybody gets access to the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve got to be careful about introducing remoteness to the system whereby things can be done in different places, because once you do that, justice can become different things to different people. While I\u2019m very much in favour of these provisions of this bill, I think we should go to amendment 3, which is clarifying the relationship between virtual participation and open justice. Now, obviously this was brought about and the Labour Government brought this in during the COVID pandemic, which certainly accelerated\u2014as the pandemic did in so many of our professional lives or lives in anything\u2014the use of audiovisual, of video, and words like \u201CZoom\u201D entered into our lexicon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EIt was a great opportunity for us to start to understand the opportunities for this, but anyone who\u2019s ever worked on a computer project\u2014and I\u2019m sure Mr Bayly in his business life has seen computer systems being introduced, online systems being introduced that are going to change the whole way we do business. We were going to go paperless and we were going to become so efficient. I personally remember INCIS as being this system\u2014actually, many of these provisions weren\u2019t that much different, because all of a sudden, this is way back in the 1980s, we were going to introduce this system into justice that was going to include courts, include our judges, include our prisons, include everybody, so you would only ever enter a name once. You\u2019d arrest someone on Courtenay Place on a Saturday night, enter their details, drop them off at the watch house, and that was the last anyone would ever have to enter another detail. Well, it never quite happened that way. I think the INCIS mainframe was last seen weighing down a yacht out in the middle of Cook Strait somewhere, and that was where it all ended up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBut seriously, I\u2019ve seen many attempts over the years, and not only in the justice system but in many places, where we are going to solve everything with technology. Well, that\u2019s fine, but often the people who introduce the technology are not the people who actually understand the business on either side. So never lose sight of\u2014while we\u2019re seeking to go online to use better technology\u2014what the nature of our business is, and the nature of our business is to ensure that people receive justice\u2014the justice being the criminal who comes into the system, the defendant, that they have the justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EA lot of that is ensuring that they\u2019re actually seen by a real person at some stage, and so I\u2019d hate to ever see the system where\u2014and I see already Mr Meager mentioned Te Au Reka. I\u2019m pleased to see you\u2019ve had a briefing on that; it\u2019s going to be a system where everybody will be online, the lawyers will be online. Good luck with that, with getting defence lawyers online, I\u2019ll say. It was hard enough getting the judges to even have a laptop on their desk when this was first being mooted. In fact, I was just very recently talking to someone who\u2019s a judge\u2019s assistant and whose job was actually to do everything, to actually turn the computer on, the lot, for one of these judges\u2014hopefully, a judge long since retired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI know that getting everybody online into a system\u2014and this comes back to the point of this bill, and I know the Speaker in the Chair will be looking for me to do that, which is to make sure that when we do start to put everything online, there is someone in the system that they will actually see, and they will understand that there are real people involved in this, and that our witnesses, when they do come to court\u2014and we talked about victims. I know the member from the Greens Tamatha Paul talked about victims. Victims should be at the centre of our court system, but actually don\u2019t assume too much about victims, because, having dealt with a lot of victims, going to court is an important part of the process for them. A lot of our victims actually do like to sit in the back of the court and actually see the defendant standing there in the dock, justice being meted out to them. So don\u2019t ever make assumptions. What really worries me is that the more online we get, the more we will take that centre-point of the District Court, of the High Court, out of the system. So all of a sudden, everything has been done online.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EGoing back to what I said before, and I\u2019m being a little bit cynical; probably know too many defence lawyers myself who I just\u2014good luck trying to get them online.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc26f78fa5114dd0a28600fd386673dd\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s not go back; let\u2019s look forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa132380db7c41aaa6ab0dd90ba48a84\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Some of your compatriots maybe, I\u2019m sure, Mr Meager\u2014you\u2019ve sat in the court. Good luck trying to get some of those people to actually be able to do all their business online. The other thing, too: as soon as you go into that, you also get some security issues. Go back to this issue where witnesses and people at home can be sitting and observing parts of the court process that actually may not be able to be made public; they may be suppressed. Even that information all of a sudden is going to be online, ensuring that we\u2019re going to have that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EGoing back, from listening to me, you might think I\u2019m totally opposed to this. I\u2019m not. This is very good, but don\u2019t think this is any more than what it is. It\u2019s a relatively simple bill that actually does ensure that we\u2019re able to utilise the technology, but without changing the nature of our business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI see right through the process, too, anyone who\u2019s had the opportunity\u2014and I really commend everyone in the House to take the opportunity to go to one of the new specialist courts, because actually the specialist courts are going the other way. I was lucky enough to be in the wonderful Palmerston North and looking at what they do with the family violence court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d814327ad1040e7b62fdab32ffa590a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Great town.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb28140fd0e347b1b612c4199b1c9dc2\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Now, each of us will have somewhere in our jurisdiction, a court. The drug courts are another one. Now, these are more specialist courts. Instead of having this conveyer belt of people going through the justice system, they were actually able to take a little more specialisation. One of these specialisations is the family violence court. Actually, they\u2019re shaped differently, but the essence of it is that it\u2019s much more personalised. It\u2019s important that the defendant, in this case, is actually in the room with the judge, with the lawyers, and with all those others involved in the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EWhile we\u2019re doing this, we\u2019re actually moving to another system. The drug courts are actually the same thing. Again, go to the drug courts. Those of you in Auckland\u2014I\u00A0understand there\u2019s one opening in Hamilton if it hasn\u2019t already\u2014there\u2019s one in Auckland City and one out at Waitakere. Well worth a visit because you\u2019ll actually see another way that justice is being administered. I was lucky enough to be there when we had three of the people who had been through the courts actually graduating. As a bit of a cynical old detective, I had my doubts when I went in there. You know, it\u2019ll obviously be\u2014statistics over the years; we\u2019ll see how it works. Certainly I\u2019m convinced there is another way, but the other way wasn\u2019t moving online. The other way, and what I was able to observe there, was actually there was more personal involvement in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESo while, yes, let\u2019s use our technology; yes, use this\u2014and I look forward to Te Au Reka. I do note that Te Au Reka has had a considerable reduction in its funding. While we\u2019re going to go online, the funding is not going\u2014well, in fact, $31 million less funding for courts this year. While we\u2019re going to be making these advances\u2014[Interruption] Laptops cost money\u2014I don\u2019t know if you know over there: to go online, it\u2019ll cost money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EI could speak longer about this. It\u2019s a topic near and dear to my heart. I do recommend this, and I believe that it\u2019s something that is the start of an issue, but let\u2019s not forget what justice is about; what the court system is about. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u00228a397299b5cd41f7ab9a824fd2ceddbc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a397299b5cd41f7ab9a824fd2ceddbc\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and speak in the second reading of the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill. Before I get into the nitty gritty of this bill, I would also like to say happy birthday to our excellent chair of the Justice Committee, James Meager, who received a lot of lovely support around the Justice Committee today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also love to say to my mother: happy birthday, Mum. Behibbik kteer ummi. I love you so much. I\u2019d also like to say a happy birthday to my niece Silia, happy birthday to my sister Nagewa for tomorrow, and happy birthday for Rima Luti two days ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EGetting back to this bill, as I am surrounded by a number of Ministers, and talking about this bill to these Ministers\u2014the Minister of Climate Change over here, Simon Watts, the MP for North Shore. I know there\u2019s a climate of change coming with respect to remote video access for our courts. As I\u2019m surrounded by the Minister of Statistics, Andrew Bayly, I know the statistics of completed court cases in a certain time frame may well change for the better. I\u2019m surrounded also by the Minister for Land Information, Chris Penk, and the information in the departmental report is that this will help victims. So anything to get our justice system back on track\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a51a668605e4684a0af341dd5fa4ee7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: But is it their birthday? That\u2019s what we want to know. Continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c571a70ae294ce3ac19d23ba951b3c1\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: Anything to get our justice system back on track. I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4798e22d6dd4eae8cfa4b6e490a7025\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Back on track\u2014back on the bill. Back on the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225de0fe5d366d4a46a5fa8420c01135af\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00223e5f7c77310549ad9a455c6004dd02a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e5f7c77310549ad9a455c6004dd02a1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f259d6ba981e45119d32350c4748da22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f259d6ba981e45119d32350c4748da22\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Now, I\u2019ve spent a lot of time in this Chamber this week, and I can tell you I have not been happy about it. There has been bill after bill just wanting to destroy our environment, and it\u2019s been an awful time for me, someone who cares about the environment and doesn\u2019t want to increase pollution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EHere we are on Thursday afternoon, and we seem to be having a birthday fest. Happy birthday to Mr James Meager, the chair of the Justice Committee. I have to say I\u2019m very pleased to be speaking on a bill that everybody agrees about, and can\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c649e48838c94ada941c31de9dcdd694\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Nobody cares about Freddy the Frog\u2019s birthday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225b02481c4d44f2da9477e7f20455424\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Aw! My colleague is saying that nobody cares about Freddy the Frog\u2019s birthday, but I can tell Dr Ayesha Verrall that I care about Freddy the Frog every day of the year\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002231e14629-7251-4b68-9f90-22b71db0b1c1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b3da724bccc4cb7935515dc0d79ac71\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: Which one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231da7308918c4b158adc737ca70d4f00\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: All the Freddies. All the Freddies, David MacLeod, all the Freddy the Frogs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ERight, happy birthday to James Meager, the chair of the Justice Committee, and well done to all members of that select committee, whether or not it is their birthday today or yesterday or sometime last week. Well done to them, too, for working through what my colleague has described as \u201Cquite a simple bill\u201D. These are small changes, but they\u2019re good for victims. They\u2019re good for efficiency. So well done for having some common-sense legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u00221b7f3b6705134617add3f7082840605b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b7f3b6705134617add3f7082840605b\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, this bill has been well traversed, and in the efforts to enable Mr Meager to celebrate his birthday more fulsomely, I\u2019m happy to commend this bill to the House and get on with\u00A0it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00223ec9896b7ac84a52890b5febc94167c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ec9896b7ac84a52890b5febc94167c8\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Well, kia orana, Mr Speaker\u2014I\u00A0wasn\u2019t expecting to perhaps get to my call so quickly. I want to wish a happy birthday to Dua Lipa, who has got a birthday happening at the moment, and Mr Meager as well\u2014in fine, fine company. I want to acknowledge the work of the committee that Mr Meager chairs, the Justice Committee, for the work that they\u2019ve done around this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very clear that members on this side of the House will be supporting the bill\u2019s second reading this afternoon. It\u2019s one of those extraordinary situations where the actual report from the select committee is rather brief and the recommendation is unanimous, and that\u2019s because it\u2019s gone through that process without any amendments. To have that go through the process on a unanimous sort of point is something that we don\u2019t get to see very often\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d6bac182bfe4f9c80ce2a5ee8545ea2\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: But we\u2019d like to see more of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb869e7e035549d5aacd730ea2a2ec98\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014so I want to acknowledge the work around that\u2014and we would like to see more of that, for good pieces of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI want to just touch on a few things. The courts spokesperson on this side of the House, for the Labour Party, Greg O\u2019Connor, has talked about the fact that courts are a really important part of democracy here in New Zealand, and what\u2019s really important is that there is an ability for those who are part of the democracy to be involved in the process\u2014whether it\u2019s as a defendant, whether it\u2019s as a witness, whether it\u2019s as a victim, whether actually it\u2019s as a member of the public who may just want to go along and understand what is happening in their community. It\u2019s really important that, when it comes to participation in courts around this country, it\u2019s accessible for those that need to or want to be involved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EI know that Mr O\u2019Connor spent some time in the fine city of Palmerston North last week, and I know that he took the opportunity to visit our local courthouse while he was there. Now, that gave an opportunity to not just appreciate the different logistical issues, I guess, that arise from time to time but the facilities that exist. Certainly, in our community\u2014as you will know, Mr Speaker\u2014we\u2019ve had some changes in our local courthouse to reflect the changing times. Whether it\u2019s the general layout, whether it\u2019s the way in which the accessibility aspect is targeted, there have been some changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EHowever, there are some aspects of the court system and structure where things haven\u2019t changed, and it has taken quite some time for people to get on board as part of that. The reality, of course, is that as we move along and end up with technological change and advancement and innovation, it makes things a little bit easier to grasp and get on board with. I reflect that perhaps 10-odd years ago, it would be a very different approach if we were talking about the use of remote participation and what that might mean. I\u2019d hazard a guess and suggest that you wouldn\u2019t see someone on a screen beaming in to a courtroom, in that particular sort of phase of things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EOne of the responsibilities that I\u2019ve had, in a former role before coming here, was as a judicial justice of the peace. I\u2019m very familiar with the insides of courtrooms and have conducted hearings via audiovisual links (AVL). There have been some limitations. I recall, actually, when I was dealing with an arrest matter in Palmerston North and the defendant was in the Levin police station, where there\u2019s a requirement to, basically, sight the bail bond and the conditions that are signed. At that time, it wasn\u2019t very easy to effectively discharge that duty\u2014when you\u2019ve got a defendant who is holding up a copy of the bail bond up against the screen, which is then being beamed down the camera through to courtroom number three in Palmerston North. With the introduction of this opportunity, there needs to be a guarantee that there are appropriate and adequate logistical resources when it comes to not just AVL but IT and the like, to ensure that it is a smooth process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EOne of the fail-safes, I guess, in terms of this particular bill, is that it allows for the judicial officer\u2014whether that\u2019s a judge, a JP, a registrar, or someone else; a community magistrate, perhaps\u2014who is making those decisions to still consider the interests of justice for all participants, particularly, actually, for the defendant, who may not have been convicted at that particular point in time, because, of course, the presumption of innocence is what is expected in this country. Knowing that a court registrar or a judicial officer still has the right to be able to, basically, pull the plug and not allow remote access is something that is to be protected and something that continues in this particular piece of legislation as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing that often is kind of set to the side is the role that victims can play in court proceedings. One thing that this bill does is it provides an opportunity for victims to participate in proceedings on their own terms. They don\u2019t have to be in the courtroom physically. They can, effectively, be beamed in, but don\u2019t have to have all sets of eyes looking at them if they don\u2019t want that. It doesn\u2019t mean, of course, that for some victims that opportunity is removed\u2014there is still that opportunity for victims, in addition to a victim impact statement. But, despite this legislation, it would still be open to a victim if they chose to front up in court and wanted to, whether it\u2019s to deliver a victim impact statement or otherwise, in the presence of whoever is in the courtroom at the time\u2014the\u00A0opportunity for them. What\u2019s pleasing, I guess, is that it\u2019s not a default that suddenly all victims who will participate in this process will suddenly only have remote participation as their only choice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThose that have been to courthouses around the country will know that many of the courthouses are quite different in terms of the infrastructure kit. When we look at the Taihape courthouse, it\u2019s very different from the courthouse that\u2019s located in Marton, which is very different to the courthouse that is located here in Wellington. And so what\u2019s going to be important is ensuring that the infrastructure to allow remote participation, whether that be by audiovisual link or otherwise, is actually up to spec, because that also assists in ensuring that the nature of justice that is going to be available to those participants is not\u2014there\u2019s no risk there. It\u2019s a pleasure to be able to support this bill. We look forward to its passage past second reading. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022 data-id=\u002222a82d21bf14486b9132efce4f151d88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222a82d21bf14486b9132efce4f151d88\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great day in this House. It is a great day because it\u2019s James Meager\u2019s birthday. It\u2019s a great day because it\u2019s Rima Nakhle\u2019s mother\u2019s birthday. It\u2019s also a great day because we\u2019ve reached unanimous support in this House. And, finally, it\u2019s a great day because finally the courts are catching up to the rest of our society, and that is that technology can be used for court proceedings. This is a great bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f429fecb-a955-4d95-8105-e5144e651204\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f77b251ad5d24f2eb845c9fb68186d7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f77b251ad5d24f2eb845c9fb68186d7c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for committee stage next sitting day. Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair, and I note the excessive birthday wishes to Mr James Meager, so it must be his shout. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 27 August 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240822b175fe2bfd6242788a63c767625dcf06000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.55 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"