"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b8c4afd0edc64b3c8c84f8516fdffcf3\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 29 AUGUST 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222547846a9b0747169e27f022036df5a2\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 29 AUGUST 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d844af08f7a474db20cd9f723a22d90\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f1c6a6a7f311480e988919e48f1c4107\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a170b22bfb1b4019bc5a16b5e2f0d90e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a170b22bfb1b4019bc5a16b5e2f0d90e\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (Deputy Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fca8715434ce468e9089004b177a175f\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c125fdeee02c4cf28d3737371dbecf28\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022577d46a7620e47b1b337d6c36a1f7396\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022577d46a7620e47b1b337d6c36a1f7396\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Leader of the House: Today, the House will adjourn until Tuesday, 10\u00A0September. In that week, the House will consider the second readings of the Education and Training Amendment Bill and the Contracts of Insurance Bill. It will also consider the third reading of the Corrections Amendment Bill. On Tuesday, there are the Estimates debates for the health, M\u0101ori development, and transport portfolios. Wednesday will be a members\u2019 day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab6f96e86df5491eb6c3f2ba98373758\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab6f96e86df5491eb6c3f2ba98373758\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the acting Leader of the House for that. The question that I have is around the extended sittings. If it happens, like it did this week, that it\u2019s not required, would the Government consider using that scheduled extended sitting to fill the deficit in the outstanding members\u2019 day during that time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00227bbb9512a424444791418e5433fb86b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bbb9512a424444791418e5433fb86b0\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector):\u003C/span\u003E I know the members opposite are excited about the huge amount of work and legislation that the Government is progressing, and he\u2019ll just have to wait and see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226467832b7f0d44079c0f5efb369af9a3\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f88c83e8220c4403b277e73695f3aa8c\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc4b45533d1a457aa70a9358a1977953\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc4b45533d1a457aa70a9358a1977953\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1a1937a990541bf9b3a83e17c48c9c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1a1937a990541bf9b3a83e17c48c9c3\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Social Justice Aotearoa, requesting that the House amend the End of Life Choice Act by removing the words \u201Cwithin 6 months\u201D from section 5 and providing that people are eligible for assisted dying who suffer from a degenerative disease that will ultimately end their life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00228530efda82c84cc2b1857d06f98812aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228530efda82c84cc2b1857d06f98812aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. No papers have been delivered. No select committee reports have been delivered for presentation. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002244c53fef929341d58c0169d617867720\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229a7071660fcc4afb8ceb9622792e9ec8\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022885c9d6d46754496aadac83f88d59f4b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022753788f2de2146ea970299ecef2dfa2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022753788f2de2146ea970299ecef2dfa2f\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by her statement, \u201COur Government will not tolerate people who accept the Jobseeker Support benefit but refuse to uphold their obligation to seek a job\u2014it is not fair on hardworking Kiwis who pay their taxes that go towards those benefit payments\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022f329658d439945748c5559c4ec913a56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f329658d439945748c5559c4ec913a56\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. Our Government believes that people on the jobseeker benefit who are supported by taxpayers have obligations in return for this support. That is why we are introducing a traffic light system to make clear to people whether they are complying with their work obligations and what steps they need to take to re-comply with their obligations if they have not fulfilled them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fc8bb84b6d74034a867e761f138c844\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the 202,000 people currently on jobseeker support have refused to uphold their obligations to seek a job?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292cace96d3894caa9d340b76acddab40\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very pleased to announce to the House that of the job\u00A0seekers currently on the jobseeker benefit, only 1 percent are in orange and 1 percent in red.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e04ea5f922bd4b768557888457de3642\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the 202,000 people currently on jobseeker support have a health condition or disability and are unable to work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203ec01327bd043c9b95bf5f7fef8a01f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The jobseeker benefit and the work obligations are clearly stated. Some job seekers who have health conditions and disabilities don\u2019t have work obligations. None of that has changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8da9341ddfc4d759dff881763f0cee8\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does she expect grandparents, raising grandchildren, who are on jobseeker support and also receive the unsupported child\u2019s benefit to work full time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292880684aefe4cdeb7c4c1ad25cafba8\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I confirm again: none of the requirements that have existed prior, in terms of work obligations, have changed. The only thing that has changed is that this side of the House is actually making it really clear to those who are on the jobseeker benefit what their status is\u2014are they in green and they\u2019re complying; are they under a warning, which is orange; or have they failed their work obligations, which means they go to red.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253628945c28d48818412048d216bb1e2\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: How could she expect a single grandmother on jobseeker support with her own 14-year-old and two grandchildren\u2014one of whom has ADHD and fetal alcohol spectrum disorder and for whom she is receiving the unsupported child\u2019s benefit\u2014to work full-time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022383b64092b054b3ab948d7aa4a429069\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I can only say it again, because it appears the member wasn\u2019t listening to my answer: our Government has not changed any of the settings around what the work obligations are and who they apply to. All we have done is said that, actually, where there are responsibilities that are not fulfilled, we expect the Ministry of Social Development to take action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f71a82d03d64618a144e4821b283b12\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: What has happened to the 1,500 people that have been sanctioned and lost their benefits since she took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1a30eb3e34847c4830b4ada0f117d1f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m hoping that many of them have then re-complied and got their benefit reinstated, or, hopefully, more of them have got a job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb513fa330b8429da55eaca8e3b77887\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u0022722910e23fd447a19074e8a4fcb2dc80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022722910e23fd447a19074e8a4fcb2dc80\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: What actions has the Government taken to improve the lives of New Zealanders, and their families, affected by cancer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022f712cf95f6b949ed9fb63ac423c5c0ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f712cf95f6b949ed9fb63ac423c5c0ad\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Tomorrow is Daffodil Day, so I\u2019d like to start off by acknowledging our hard-working health staff and the volunteers helping those with cancer. Daffodil Day represents hope for many New Zealanders and their families who have been impacted by cancer. We know that many people will experience cancer in their lifetime, whether that\u2019s personally or through a relative or a friend; we know the toll that it can take. That\u2019s why this Government is committed to improving cancer outcomes for all New Zealanders. That\u2019s why we have brought back targets, invested in cancer treatments, improved access to cancer services, and expanded cancer screening eligibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022822fe0b5c9d5443b91951ed5d498f77b\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: What investments has the Government made into cancer treatments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9fad61b1580434d98d5b40263c03923\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: Since coming into Government, we\u2019ve been very busy in the cancer space. We\u2019ve made a transformative investment of $604 million into Pharmac, which will deliver up to 26 cancer treatments from October this year, increasing access to vital medicines for those impacted by cancer. We\u2019re also building a new cancer radiotherapy machine at Whang\u0101rei Hospital, so 520 Northlanders a year will no longer have to travel to Auckland for treatment. For those New Zealanders who do still have to travel for their specialist treatment, we\u2019ve boosted the National Travel Assistance scheme by $18 million a year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de412a9cf3924ec59e51114236dbe41f\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: How has the Government improved access to cancer screening?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223953cf4934b04b509b97c0022dc24890\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: We know that improving access to screening and diagnostic services will save lives. That is why we have prioritised action in this area. You will have already seen that we are extending the breast cancer screening age from 70 to 74 years, which will save an estimated 65 lives per year at full uptake. This extension also means that around 120,000 additional women will be eligible for screening every two years. We\u2019ve removed access barriers for positron emission tomography and computed tomography (PET-CT) scans by approving funding for an updated set of criteria, which allows for about 1,000 more publicly funded PET-CT scans per year\u2014many of which will be for cancer, especially prostate cancer. New Zealanders deserve timely access to healthcare when they need it most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b6bdb9870fe42caaabe5188df85be01\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: What else is the Government doing to drive better cancer outcomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267121f51e8774930b3c9afea4b98dc52\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: There are many initiatives that we have got under way to improve cancer outcomes. Cancer touches thousands of Kiwi families each year, and although we have already made a number of significant advancements, we know there\u2019s still a long way to go. In recent years, we\u2019ve seen people experiencing longer delays in accessing cancer treatment. More patients are waiting longer than the 31 days for their cancer management to start, with those meeting the target dropping from over 90 percent a few years ago to around 82.7 percent now. This is unacceptable. That is why we\u2019ve introduced a target to have 90 percent of patients receive cancer management within 31\u00A0days of the decision to treat. Having health targets back at the forefront of our decision\u00A0making will help direct the attention and resources to make this happen. This target will\u00A0also provide the accountability and transparency that the system needs to ensure it is\u00A0delivering timely access to cancer treatment when New Zealanders are in their time of\u00A0need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002290645ec065c744e3af7a2e66117ff99f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u0022c88979a7785d4835a2164133ac789668\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c88979a7785d4835a2164133ac789668\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does he stand by his statement that he doesn\u2019t \u201Cthink there is systemic bias in the police\u00A0at\u00A0all\u201D, and, if so, how does he explain findings released by the Police that being M\u0101ori makes you 11 percent more likely to be prosecuted compared to P\u0101keh\u0101 for the same offence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00221883478491c645d29e03bd9e79e1de60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221883478491c645d29e03bd9e79e1de60\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do. Our police do outstanding work every day in holding offenders to account. I do not believe that there is systemic racism or bias in the New Zealand Police. It is not for me to explain the report she mentions. However, for the member\u2019s benefit, I draw her attention to one of the conclusions of the authors of the report, which was that this is not conclusive evidence of conscious or unconscious bias against males or M\u0101ori. The member should also note that according to the New Zealand Crime \u0026amp; Victim Survey, in 2023, M\u0101ori adults were almost 60 percent more likely to experience violent crime than the national average and more than twice as likely to be highly victimised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac93d0300bdd4733b23e2691f1f02ffd\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: If systemic bias or systemic racism doesn\u2019t exist within the police, then why were the police systematically stopping rangatahi M\u0101ori and taking tens of thousands of illegal photos of them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220836c370ce794d008dad91cd0538a432\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m just going to restate for the member that we have got a world-class police service\u2014men and women in our community that do an outstanding job, that stand up every day to protect the communities that they live in and that they serve. I don\u2019t believe or accept for one minute that there is systemic racism or bias in our police service. Again, that report is the commissioner\u2019s report, and he can speak to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9277781f82144009890be6d6be3ca64\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister please explain what systemic bias is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed15e23b6e4d474a80ae85c4ea852e59\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, can you repeat the question. Was it a question for me to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229daa7e167a3a469e9898c51b73e26b08\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, just a moment\u2014just hang on, sorry. With all due respect, the police Minister has got a lot of things in his portfolio, but giving an answer of that type is not one of them. The member should rephrase the question\u2014without loss of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7cb03eb544d439181100fdba9ce3ba7\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I believe the Minister\u2019s saying there is no systemic bias, so surely he must know what systemic bias is. That seems like a pretty reasonable question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e625c1de00d94621a077966063516958\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that might be the case, but the question was asked on its own without any reference to the main question. I\u2019m asking the member to redo the question, not lose the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229ed0640a9244e3f93ac6bcd9938e616\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: In response to the Minister\u2019s comments that he doesn\u2019t \u201Cthink there is systemic bias in the police at all\u201D, can the Minister please explain what systemic bias is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2f98f42fa2c47cbb94a86a648877d10\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, systemic bias is bias that\u2019s systemic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200c0f38527ce42dea55339612c3fa8c2\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: How does he explain the fact that M\u0101ori are more likely to be exposed to police intervention throughout their life than non-M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2d4757601e044bf9d32d9d7536d9bfc\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Look, all that I\u2019d say to the member\u2014and I\u2019ve said this before\u2014is that the police do not get to choose who they deal with in terms of offending. Society decides that. I\u2019m extremely proud of our police service. I think that they do the best to respond to the very difficult circumstances they\u2019re currently operating in, because they\u2019re trying to get on top of a massive growth of violent crime in our country. In my view, there is not systemic bias or racism in our police. I think that if there was an individual case where it\u2019s obvious that there is some bias or some racism, then I would expect the police to take swift action on that. But to suggest that there is systemic bias and racism in our police\u2014I completely reject that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229efc43d353744834a50cb5afa84b44c8\u0022\u003EHon Nicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that people who commit crimes should face the consequences of their actions regardless of their ethnicity, and, if so, what actions has this Government taken to ensure that criminals face the consequences of their crimes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc462dff4d4647599dcb3b5514afe589\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014yes, I do agree with that. The Government is working extremely hard to restore law and order and make sure that consequences match the seriousness of the offending. I\u2019m pleased to see that the Minister is strengthening firearm prohibition orders to ensure police have more powers to get guns out of the hands of gang members, and bringing back three strikes. I\u2019d also highlight the sentencing reforms being championed by the Minister of Justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7fe4d0e7fb345bda4043ca3fde80569\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he refusing to acknowledge the findings of the report when the Police Commissioner himself has accepted the findings and has committed to building that trust in the communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2c2ae9bb87742b6a956383851510e30\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the member just answered her own question. This was a report that was commissioned several years ago. It is the commissioner\u2019s report\u2014it\u2019s not my report\u2014and it\u2019s for the commissioner to speak to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a104b17077134264bd63e2dbe5db18b3\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: What actions will he take to eliminate systemic bias that was identified within the report, acknowledging that it is not a reflection on individual officers but on the system that they work within across New Zealand\u2019s policing system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d2adba3e3714865ac75285f676d59fc\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: As the Minister of Police, I\u2019ll continue to support our police service in making sure that they have got the resources, the support, the legislation, and the powers that they need to be able to keep our country safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220597a17050ed40c3bb7a8193b61d4d98\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u002288a6f525f9d74e1c995a0140c944954b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288a6f525f9d74e1c995a0140c944954b\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How are her employment policies going to support New Zealanders in to work, given that the Reserve Bank\u2019s August Monetary Policy Statement predicts that unemployment will rise to 5.4 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022890a23ec43f243c1b1aea75b72ce6172\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022890a23ec43f243c1b1aea75b72ce6172\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Because we already are. In July this year, there were 800 more exits from the jobseeker benefit into work compared with July last year, despite the challenging economic conditions, while we inherited a low-growth economy where unemployment was forecast to increase above 55 percent. Recently, we have announced an employment investment strategy which gets more support to young job seekers and more strongly targets those on benefit long-term.\u00A0And yesterday, we released an employment action plan to ensure agencies are focused on ensuring more New Zealanders can enjoy the independence and opportunities that work\u00A0provides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225101eb1377f64a9fac9d2abcf863d103\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement that her Government will make early interventions to get people into work or training and prevent them from entering the benefit system; if so, why is she planning to reduce the number of non-beneficiaries who can access Mana in Mahi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d7f8835c5d8416583816f388814ed82\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Because we need to do both, but what our Government is clearly prioritising is a beneficiary-first process. That means we are focusing on those who are swimming in the ocean, not rescuing those who are already in a lifeboat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022757f0056192f46e4bf0357fdffe96d86\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement that her Government will make early interventions to get people into work or training and prevent them from entering the benefit system; if so, why is she planning to reduce the number of non-beneficiaries who can access Flexi-wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bccbd5f4d7b84e828671635c2a2b54c4\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve just answered that. I would remind the member that, in both instances, we have tilted the balance to beneficiaries first. We are still providing access to those programmes for those who are at risk of long-term welfare dependency, who may not have come on to the benefit first. But we must provide taxpayer support and taxpayer-funded programmes to those whom taxpayers are funding on welfare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d794f575b8494c658eee48c4ee5d0a8b\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Will preventing non-beneficiaries from accessing Mana in Mahi and Flexi-wage increase their chances of becoming beneficiaries; if so, how will this affect her 50,000 job seeker reduction target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224057c7ecf19d4e8f8a0601a267fcffec\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve answered that question: because we must do both. We have seen, unfortunately, a 70,000 increase in the job seeker numbers under the previous Government at a time there were jobs everywhere. Our focus is to make sure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb5f05ed5d6a494a9b5ecf0cb560885c\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: 24,000 extra beneficiaries under her watch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235f25c89aace4c79972679b1e575819f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that we are supporting those who are on the jobseeker benefit now. And thanks to that previous Minister, who watched a period of time where 70,000 more people went on to the jobseeker benefit and 220,000 children grew up in benefit-dependent households\u2014we\u2019re not willing to accept that that\u2019s as good as it gets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0dfb7ee656643f09dcb0c39223c8110\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can that Minister remember who was the Minister that introduced the Mana in Mahi policy but, apparently, doesn\u2019t like the mahi anymore?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc9addf4b95440ec92fa57826c22b54a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely\u2014our Government is focused on getting more New Zealanders into mahi that is paid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e07fdf3024c742bf819519be442727f6\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister commit to increased funding for Mana in Mahi and Flexi-wage in order to meet demand from the expected rise in unemployment to 5.4\u00A0percent, as predicted by the Reserve Bank?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e795b134b484b21a582cc243e26d619\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The $1.1 billion investment that goes into employment initiatives\u2014we must ensure is delivering results. The Mana in Mahi programme that he refers to is expensive\u2014$17,000 per participant\u2014so we need to ensure we are targeting those expensive investment initiatives into those who are at risk of long-term welfare dependency. Our focus, unlike the previous member, was to focus those on 18- to 24-year-olds who are at risk of long-term welfare dependency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e19671580d8f4b868289ae31bef53f8d\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister content to be the ambulance at the bottom of the hill rather than supporting programmes that can intervene early and make a real difference in people\u2019s lives, particularly Mana in Mahi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b4d0bad28e646f1a4572ddbe5e12f96\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m proud to be the Minister that set a target to reduce the number on the jobseeker benefit by 50,000, because our Government is clear that those who are in work have better lives and better outcomes. We\u2019ve got to focus on those coming in, but, as I said, we\u2019ve got large numbers and better exit rates than there were a\u00A0year ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fbb81b9f092b491bba6f67bc9dc3f766\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022721df063736d46f0ac872f66eee1208f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022721df063736d46f0ac872f66eee1208f\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister for the Environment: What recent announcements has he made relating to significant natural areas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8f4d9eee2bc461e81f39170acdc10a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8f4d9eee2bc461e81f39170acdc10a8\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Associate Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, I announced the scope of the Government\u2019s planned review into rules that relate to significant natural areas (SNAs) in the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity (NPSIB). The NPSIB was brought in by the previous Government in August last year and requires councils to map out so-called SNAs, which limit landowners\u2019 ability to develop the land and use it to maximise its productivity. Officials will undertake the review over the coming months, which will take a good look at three areas: the criteria councils use to identify SNAs in their district, the processes that councils use, and the restrictions that are put on land identified as an SNA. Targeted consultation is under way with ecologists, landowners, and iwi, and full public consultation will follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275015c9f9f46445a853249b4e785a9ab\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: How does this fit into Government policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdc6058fc9534aff9e64af3ea12afe38\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. This Government made a firm commitment in the ACT Party coalition agreement: stop the implementation of new SNAs and review their operation. We have already introduced legislation to suspend the requirements the previous Government brought in for councils to identify SNAs under the NPSIB. That legislation is progressing in the House now and will be passed by the end of the year. This will give us time to do this review, and I expect that the outcome of the review will be implemented by the middle of next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271eb966f54e74dee8c227cd19c8a69a8\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this review necessary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022787019948e9e4618bc9a3e2c211d49da\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. In their current form, SNAs are a rather blunt tool that doesn\u2019t recognise all the good work that farm owners and landowners already do to protect the biodiversity on private land. I\u2019ve heard from a huge number of landowners that this NPSIB will mean that they have areas of land that are, effectively, locked up, despite the fact that they are not all that significant. What is significant is the contribution our primary sector is making to getting the economy humming again. ACT wants to remove the unnecessary barriers for success and to create certainty for our primary sector. We do that by making sure that any measures sensibly protect the most unique and special environments while balancing private property rights and the ability to use land for its most productive purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226775daa80e8c4b56b70e77af8f3778a7\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Are there other ways to protect biodiversity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ada551a700764073a62557eafb8c14cc\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, there are. We see it across the country all the time. Many farmers don\u2019t need the council\u2019s help to protect areas of natural beauty or biodiversity. They\u2019re doing it already. All farmers want to leave the land in a better state than it was before. You only have to look at the number of voluntary entries into the Queen Elizabeth II National Trust, now up to 180,000 hectares. Over 5,000 landowners have voluntarily retired land into covenants for ever. This is the way forward\u2014partnership. Another point that we need to remember is that a third of New Zealand is already under the Department of Conservation\u2019s management. Surely we can find the significant biodiversity within that third. Why are we trying to grab 10 hectares off farmers here and there? We will recognise the good work farmers are doing, not strip away New Zealanders\u2019 property rights and create fear in rural communities like the last Government did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f21f5b601d54fa29147e3feac2c0315\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u00227b51df9c9dc2444899889af3256e0481\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b51df9c9dc2444899889af3256e0481\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: By how much have Police foot patrols increased under this Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u00225ba841036004408ab356a77bf2a74a2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ba841036004408ab356a77bf2a74a2f\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Before I answer the member\u2019s question, I\u2019d like to acknowledge the hard work of our police in Christchurch and Auckland who yesterday terminated Operation Avon, an eight-month investigation targeting the Comancheros in Christchurch. As a result of Operation Avon, every patched member of the Comancheros gang in Christchurch has been arrested by police. I want to acknowledge and thank those staff for the work they have done to rid Christchurch of the misery and violence that gang peddles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd55918caf484946b3e9613c27d87d7e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good. Now, what about linking that to the primary question? It would be\u00A0helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d75dfa9eb786402da1b5b9e8ce8ec3cc\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, beat constables have got a very important role to play in that too, and, actually, they have prevented $50 million worth of crime harm and sent a clear signal that police are protecting and controlling our streets, not the gangs. In answer to the member\u2019s question, he may not have seen a 1News report last night which identified that foot patrols have increased by 10 percent under this Government\u2019s watch compared with the year prior. This is in part due to the community beat teams that police have stood up in Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch, and an increased focus on visible presence throughout the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6c1cb17636f43fc8c73b37eceaa0ff3\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Has he been asked about claims of a decrease in foot patrols?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba3c3ca47d9c44f3ae087e99a0dc4b0a\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yesterday, I was asked about claims that foot patrols have decreased by 15 percent nationwide, despite this Government\u2019s investment in 500 more police and the resulting community beat teams from police. Not only was that claim wrong; it was also misleading, and it undermined the front-line staff doing great work getting out on the beat. As I\u2019ve said, Police data shows a 10 percent increase under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229869be5e459f476097c0dd2489f6f19a\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: By how much have foot patrols increased in Upper Hutt? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f119c00a13849d2804145afebca0157\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Alongside the claim of a nationwide decrease, there was a claim that foot patrols have dropped by 75 percent in Upper Hutt. The data shows that\u2014comparing December 2023 to June 2024 with the year prior\u2014there\u2019s been a 250 percent increase of foot patrols in Upper Hutt. A 250 percent increase. This coincides with an increase of 84 percent in Lower Hutt, of 128 percent in Naenae, and of 450 percent in Wainui\u014Dmata.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022296d78fa06e14acda98203b0056f6352\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Has he\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb5e06f5fd94485eb408cec9404fbd88\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. We\u2019re just going to wait for your question to be heard in silence. Away you go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215aa7be8dcfd4b02b9e94cff2a646230\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Has he had any feedback on the increased beat presence here in Wellington? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233acbc3f4b2a4b49bf8c5b03cac785bc\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I\u2019ve received very positive feedback on the outstanding work that our police beat constables are doing and the sense of safety and security that they\u2019re bringing to Wellington\u2019s CBD. The reassurance and preventative work that they do with an increased presence is outstanding. The feedback I\u2019ve had from\u00A0constables is that they are enjoying engaging with the public and getting to know their patches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225666503b54914ff5848338f0600fdd91\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Environment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u00224ee931434ce341f79c53caa46912cd4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ee931434ce341f79c53caa46912cd4d\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Environment: Does she stand by her statement that \u201CIt\u2019s getting that balance between the actions that we take, and environmental protection \u2026 we consider that the balance had swung too far towards environmental protection at the cost of not being able to get things done\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00220a04527febcc4dcb8a08689899167448\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a04527febcc4dcb8a08689899167448\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022432ad32c5db74e4a966890cdcc349840\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think that cutting jobs at the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA), the Department of Conservation, the Ministry for the Environment, the Climate Change Commission, the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA), and GNS Science has now achieved balance through reducing environmental protection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226b8fec836a24d55a5ec0426fbdc2af2\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, obviously, I don\u2019t have responsibility for NIWA, the Department of Conservation, and a number of the other entities that the member mentioned, but I can assure her that at the EPA, the work that is being done there is ensuring that the main operational part of the EPA is not being impacted and it is the peripheral support services that are being impacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e62b177edc14a3689c0b82449432d63\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: Does she consider reopening oil and gas drilling, rolling back freshwater protections, allowing coalmining on precious wetlands, and granting blanket extensions for every marine farm in the country to represent more of a so-called balance, or will she acknowledge that her Government has got the balance wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7beaa8628344a8ac0e62a63ff2831c\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I certainly won\u2019t acknowledge that. This country has a housing crisis, an infrastructure deficit, and an energy crisis, and much of this is because consenting major projects in New Zealand takes far too long and is far too expensive. This Government came in, in a cost of living crisis, with the most debt that this country has ever had. We are determined to get things built to enable economic growth and look after the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227021bae5eed046d1a703a57a391dcd56\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: In her Government\u2019s fast-track process, will she commit to delivering on her ministerial responsibility for environmental protection by recommending the declining of projects that significantly damage the environment or that have been previously declined by the courts due to unacceptable environmental harm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022664bc7b54f2f4af9ae388d2113eb880c\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: That bill is still in the process with the select committee and has not come back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022788094880a174cfdb7476d61c2828bfc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that M\u0101ori were extremely involved in marine farming well before the arrival of Europeans and that they\u2019d like to do so again into the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285534e8a3835492aa2fe3b804ec2b427\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I wasn\u2019t here then. However, I\u2019m quite sure they were, and they are very involved in fishing and aquaculture now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f712149790ec40e49f3ad81d873cf611\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: What assurances can she provide to the local \u014Chinemuri River community who have seen their awa degraded as a result of heavy metal contamination from historical mining, and does she have any concerns that similar environmental damage could be her legacy as a result of her Government\u2019s decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ffb39f2d8b54ff9bb18ded7921257c1\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: No. Also, I acknowledge that things that happened probably hundreds of years ago, or certainly decades ago, did not have the same level of environmental protection that is there now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb8594ba5c604c20b1728e214221b6a2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 8, the Hon Deborah Russell\u2014and we\u2019ll just wait for the House to settle itself down, and we won\u2019t have any calling out during questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002273f44b3298fa49fe9c2167cce00b752b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Tertiary Education and Skills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u0022563229fc781c44649dfed2d225c562c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022563229fc781c44649dfed2d225c562c0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills: Does she stand by her statement that Te P\u016Bkenga is a \u201Cfinancial mess, drowning in debt of over $250\u00A0million\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00223f5c70ab454a444ab22d98a8a8862dd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f5c70ab454a444ab22d98a8a8862dd6\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do. Te P\u016Bkenga has $8.426 million of commercial debt, $35.391 million of Crown debt,\u00A0and $207.311 million of intercompany debt, amounting to a total debt of $251.128 million.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223574ffdd1fd04451963a49541bda04ca\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Is Jeremy Morley\u2014Te P\u016Bkenga Council member, former director at PricewaterhouseCoopers, chair of the Te P\u016Bkenga finance, audit, and risk committee\u2014wrong, who, when asked, \u201CIs Te P\u016Bkenga $250 million in debt?\u201D, replied \u201CAs a consolidated group, as a family group, no.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8d94f4f8598475ead9df8873f5d4d74\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Because he is a member of Te P\u016Bkenga Council and so, as Te P\u016Bkenga stands, yes, they have taken reserves from some entities and applied it to debt of other entities. However, as Te P\u016Bkenga is disestablished, that debt will have to lie where it was generated, and the reserves will have to go to where they are generated. However, I understand that the member and her party take a much more cavalier attitude to using other people\u2019s money, and so they are possibly thinking that that doesn\u2019t have to occur. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022376a108935fe4ff5890f80093442dfd7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That was a totally unacceptable level of noise. Just keep it down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2e6fc63a30f43f8b365845633b4ae1e\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Is Gus Gilmore, CEO of Te P\u016Bkenga, wrong when he said, \u201CWe are a viable institution.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ac6f77f7aaa4a3cb4c4ea7be0dd52aa\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: No, he\u2019s not wrong. It is a viable institution; I have never said it isn\u2019t a viable institution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc427af4aaed44f899a4bc127aa411f0\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Is Tertiary Education Commission (TEC) deputy chief executive Gillian Dudgeon right when she said just last week that \u201Cthere wouldn\u2019t be a single ITP business division that could stand alone independently\u201D; if so, why is the Minister proposing to dismantle a structure that supports them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd80982322654583b2a2eaf21f2f4921\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: She is correct, because of the actions of that previous Government that the member was a part of\u2014first of all, bringing in the unified funding scheme, which took 20 percent of the funding away from the polytechnics. So, as it stands today, those individual business units have indeed been decimated by the actions of the previous Government, but we are working through a process with intervention by TEC to get the cost out of those institutions that should have been done four long years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2b6fed36fee4ab783b79ca3df084f07\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Is the independent team of specialist advisers, appointed to give advice on the future structure of vocational education, wrong when they advised that any structure that splits institutes of technology and polytechnics (ITPs) into some independent ITPs and some grouped ITPs would continue to run deficits of tens of millions of dollars until 2028?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdf1e8c2141c49c7844e54e3e51bbe63\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Those individual specialist advisers did not have the benefit of all the financial information that is being gathered now, and so they put a number of options with some estimates of the financial situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214026afe25fb4a1a83dff2da90a8392b\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister proposing to break up a viable institution, with little debt and sustainable finances, to replace it with independent institutes of technology and polytechnics, none of which can stand alone independently?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5e944922bb042fea9b991deb38b3d43\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Because we intend to ensure that they can and because the communities that have those institutions wish to have a say in the running of them and in how they operate, rather than a head office. It is localism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002248cc276b2d394f1d8774caa8c7b68c0b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Forestry\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022 data-id=\u00222d96e1bfe1f742bbb50e41627766beb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d96e1bfe1f742bbb50e41627766beb1\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Forestry: What action has the Government taken in respect of forestry and the clean-up of the East\u00A0Coast?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00222148d958a3ca4fd0b7660c4656a392de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222148d958a3ca4fd0b7660c4656a392de\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Forestry):\u003C/span\u003E As everybody will know, last year the East Coast region was significantly impacted by severe weather events, including Cyclone Gabrielle, which left around 1\u00A0million tonnes of woody debris, including whole trees, scattered in the catchment along beaches and rivers, posing ongoing risk across the region. To date, the Government has provided $110\u00A0million for the treatment of woody debris and sediment in Tair\u0101whiti. This includes $27\u00A0million additionally that was announced in Budget 2024. Yesterday, I visited Gisborne to announce that the Government would establish the Tair\u0101whiti Forestry Action Group so the forestry sector and Gisborne District Council can work more closely together to clean up the East Coast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db702edeaea24230926d0c2452f564c1\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: What is the primary objective of the Tair\u0101whiti Forestry Action Group?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dbb37f400254df884793de51319eb56\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the action group will focus on speeding up the clean-up of existing wood and slash, as well as action to reduce the risk of wood that is still likely to come down from the hills. The action group includes representatives from the Gisborne District Council, forestry companies and contractors, the farming sector, and iwi. It brings together the right expertise to accelerate clean-up and deliver ongoing positive outcomes for the region. This is an important next step to ensure work is done on practical initiatives to clean up more wood more quickly, reduce risk, and implement best practice for the forestry industry. It\u2019s important that taxpayers can have confidence that Government funding is being used effectively. The action group will greatly assist Gisborne District Council in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5f06cbd486449369233f8b4a7ca6a45\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: What further work is the Government doing to speed up recovery from severe weather events?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0faf4377f874c82be9988f0913dc1fb\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Just last week, my colleague Minister Mitchell announced an allocation of $16.8\u00A0million of Budget 2024 funding to support 12 councils in accelerating recovery efforts following those severe weather events in 2023. Of this funding, an additional $5\u00A0million has been allocated to the Gisborne District Council for initiatives to accelerate roading, network recovery, speed up voluntary buyouts, and flood risk mitigation projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a5c4fb122de44b29918d631e1807fda\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: And how else does the Government intend to ensure safety in the region and to mitigate future risk?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0d5c2344e7d49fbb8cfedf6ca32407c\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yesterday, I also announced the Government\u2019s intention to review slash rules within the National Environmental Standards for Commercial Forestry to improve outcomes without adding unnecessary cost. The Government will help councils and industry better manage high-risk areas while supporting forestry\u2019s contribution to jobs and regional economic growth. Forestry is an important part of New Zealand\u2019s economy and a big contributor to meeting our climate change obligations. We now need to reduce cost and get the rules right to get Tair\u0101whiti and other parts of the economy back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2d0524da51c4191ae3d2ee324b0336c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2769339304e4c2fb7267278261945e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2769339304e4c2fb7267278261945e4\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his statement that there is a health \u201Cworkforce crisis\u201D, and, if so, how does he respond to senior medical officers of Tair\u0101whiti, who have said, \u201CRecent national directives setting recruitment restrictions and hospital budget cuts make our situation even worse\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022 data-id=\u0022f55dc8299d814c07ab9aa591c3364115\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f55dc8299d814c07ab9aa591c3364115\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and on this side of the House, we acknowledge that there have been ongoing workforce issues. Regarding Tair\u0101whiti, Health New Zealand have advised me that recruitment issues are, unfortunately, nothing new. Over the past four years, the vacancy rate in Tair\u0101whiti has been running at around 30 percent. The botched merger of Health New Zealand certainly hasn\u2019t helped resolve this ongoing issue. However, the recent move by Health New Zealand to a regionally based model is an important step in ensuring, for example, that Tair\u0101whiti can access support from other hospitals for specialist services as needed. Health New Zealand have also assigned HR resources to help Tair\u0101whiti develop a retention and recruitment plan specifically for the district.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292febbb8f12145008d8781b7589823c4\u0022\u003ECushla Tangaere-Manuel\u003C/span\u003E: What actions will he take to reduce the vacancy rate of senior medical officers at Tair\u0101whiti hospital, where, according to those senior medical officers, \u201CStaffing levels in all areas of our hospital are at critical levels.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299cf635a78e64fc8a37da4bcfe34afb9\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: The Health New Zealand chief executive has met with senior staff. The local management team are working with the international recruitment team on critical vacancies that require a focused approach to swift onboarding. Health New Zealand is assigning HR resources to help Tair\u0101whiti develop a retention and recruitment plan specifically for the district, and Health New Zealand\u2019s move to a more regionally based model will be an important step in ensuring Tair\u0101whiti can access support from other hospitals for specialist services as needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f72a54fb56c4e7cb1849dfe38a6d679\u0022\u003ECushla Tangaere-Manuel\u003C/span\u003E: Will he admit that recruitment restrictions that he has imposed across the motu have made the problem worse at Tair\u0101whiti hospital?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb85b8d04cbc4b06b1dc93a8363b408f\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: What I admit is that as we move to a regional model, Tair\u0101whiti will benefit from a shorter line of decision making to a regional deputy chief executive; it will improve recruitment and retention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d894179f0cb44669e634159b1948e65\u0022\u003ECushla Tangaere-Manuel\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to the senior doctors in Tair\u0101whiti, an area with the highest proportion of M\u0101ori, the highest trauma rates per person, and the highest levels of deprivation, who wrote to Ministers, \u201CYou are failing to meet your obligations.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022beacfa27ae6d42b0b9685bd7282d3dce\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: My response is that we will fulfil action five of their request\u2014that is, having senior regional leadership meet with heads of departments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b77b62b5cab345b3849b71d3bf6674e0\u0022\u003ECushla Tangaere-Manuel\u003C/span\u003E: Further to that, will he commit to undertake the minimum actions demanded by those senior medical officers, including lifting restrictions on recruitment, committing to reducing the senior medical officer vacancy rate to less than 10 percent, delivering on recruitment and retention allowances, appropriately staffing the\u00A0hospital\u2019s people and development office to enable recruitment, and, as you\u2019ve said,\u00A0having senior regional leadership meet with the head of each department to plan appropriately?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238117c3acad54e22a8e82bd2c89ea785\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in my last answer, to those multiple arms to that question, I do commit to having senior regional leadership meet with heads of departments.\u00A0\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225386df9e6d024c299f7ecee85f7d3268\u0022\u003ECushla Tangaere-Manuel\u003C/span\u003E: In the spirit of that response, will he accept my invitation to hui in Tair\u0101whiti, hearing the aspirations of the community, developing solutions together, and, of course, enjoying Tair\u0101whiti manaakitanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022861a1798-a396-4a6c-b9e2-7d2f15d4a001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5292811005b45e48a9607cb33b517a9\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for the invitation. I have already visited Tair\u0101whiti and Gisborne Hospital, but I look forward to doing so again. Thank you for the invitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022458fbeb4a3c0481096abbce1460b2a6d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Revenue\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7e4ed902e4d4250933aa35dec884848\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7e4ed902e4d4250933aa35dec884848\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Revenue: What announcements has he made on tax?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u002266316d198507423caee8ef02ca8126f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266316d198507423caee8ef02ca8126f2\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E This week, the Government tabled the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201325, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill, which sets the tax rates for this year and makes changes to the tax system. The Government tables a bill like this every year, and this time we\u2019re focused on boosting productivity and making the tax system simple and easy to use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af467c1d35634fb3947f45e63173b9d8\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: How does this bill relate to the Government\u2019s announcements on tax relief?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfa78be01aa347e494f5b607c1168e9e\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, after 14 long years, around 1.9 million households have now received the first of their promised tax relief. This bill will lock in those rates for the next year, lowering the tax rates for low and middle income New Zealanders. I hope all parties will support lower taxes for hard-working Kiwis when the bill has its first reading this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abb153bdfb264a67ac36a4d15d441a35\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: What other changes to the tax system are proposed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022191de5c246664c41aaf102e550bdc890\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the bill proposes various changes to the tax system to make it function better. These include simplifying and shortening the process required to deliver tax relief during disasters, delivering on our commitments to change the tax treatment of employee stock options, and making it easier for young people to enrol in KiwiSaver to get them saving early. All these proposed changes underline the Government\u2019s commitment to focus the tax system on simplicity, productivity, and growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1efdde1463642c8a7f6f5b111ee6ded\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Does the bill propose any new taxes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccd1b4ddf61242bca7fc4c52adab8b0f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am happy to confirm that no such proposals are contained in this bill. This Government is focused on delivering lower taxes for hard-working Kiwis, not dreaming up new ways to tax them as some members are keen to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229820cb043a7445eca26cd6667bc69b51\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd89d933c09641d5afa8b66b2e875ade\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd89d933c09641d5afa8b66b2e875ade\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou. Taku p\u0101tai ki te reo M\u0101ori i te mea e kainamu mai ana Te Wiki o te Reo M\u0101ori, \u0101, ka mutu ko taku p\u0101tai ki te Minita Take Whakawhanake Kaupapa M\u0101ori, ki a Tama P\u014Dtaka. Anei te p\u0101tai: e whakaae ana ia k\u0101ore an\u014D te tahua p\u016Btea \u0101-tau a Whakaata M\u0101ori kia piki ake mai i te tau 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. Greetings to us all. My question will be in te reo M\u0101ori because M\u0101ori Language Week is drawing closer, and furthermore my question is to the Minister of M\u0101ori Development, Tama P\u014Dtaka. Here is the question: does he accept that M\u0101ori Television has not had an increase in annual baseline funding since 2008?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc69f5b14a4446f5b445acbecda79f34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc69f5b14a4446f5b445acbecda79f34\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. The questioner is required to ask the question\u2014either in English or M\u0101ori\u2014that\u2019s on the Order Paper. He has not. For the umpteenth time, I\u2019m asking you to get him to address this House properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022004104892a3f44d4a1c1d3295e624e29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022004104892a3f44d4a1c1d3295e624e29\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, there is a small problem there that even I could pick up: there were more words\u2014there was a reference in there to Tama Potaka, which is not appropriate. And so I\u2019d ask the member to stick to as close a translation as is possible for the words that are on the Order Paper and to do that on future occasions as well; otherwise, the questions will be terminated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7482e3d58f54261b07345921e08682f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7482e3d58f54261b07345921e08682f\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tonga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: E whakaae ana ia k\u0101re an\u014D te tahua p\u016Btea \u0101-tau kia piki ake mai i te tau 2008?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E[Does he accept that there has not been an increase in annual baseline funding since 2008?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022 data-id=\u0022d63162bd3de1499f98a801c4404196c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d63162bd3de1499f98a801c4404196c0\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Acting Minister for M\u0101ori Development): \u003C/span\u003EHei whakautu i t\u0113nei p\u0101tai, pai k\u0113 me hoki te kaipatapatai ki te kura kia m\u014Dhio ai ki te tatau. Te whakapae kei roto i t\u0113nei p\u0101tai k\u0101hore e tika ana. Kua oti noa atu te p\u016Btea mai i te tau 2008 te whakaranea m\u0101 te 12 paiheneti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[In response to the question, it would be better if the questioner went back to school so that he knows how to count. The claim within the question is incorrect. The funding has long since been increased from 2008 by 12 percent.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022402402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4f5d7548fee4b79bcf9e4222eb2ae79\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, who blamed the previous Government\u2019s record investment into M\u0101ori media on the current job cuts at Whakaata M\u0101ori, or chief executive Shane Taurima, who said today that \u201Cshifting government policies\u201D were the cause of the funding changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022742cb62a228d4bd8bbdd9a57cc24f39c\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Far be it for me to disagree with that individual who shares an illustrious name. The reality is from the time of 2008, there has been an increase in the total funding for Whakaata M\u0101ori. There has been additional funding allocated for a very short period of time. It fell off a cliff because the former Minister did not make it a permanent feature of the budget of this institution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224649498a65904b3eaf422c470ac56b24\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that his refusal to support Whakaata M\u0101ori to a degree that enables Whakaata M\u0101ori to continue to be a beacon of indigenous language revitalisation both nationally and internationally has directly resulted in the loss of the only TV channel that broadcasts exclusively in te reo M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fd0db453dba4ae985a009d6e1e74405\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Ehara m\u0101 te kaihorohoro o te kaip\u0101tai t\u0113nei take ka m\u0101rama. Me m\u0101tau t\u0101tou te Whare, e wh\u0101 k\u0113 ng\u0101 poupou e h\u0101pai ana i te reo M\u0101ori. T\u014Dmua ko Te Taura Whiri; te mea tuarua ko Pouaka M\u0101ori; tua atu i t\u0113n\u0101 ko Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho; tua atu i t\u0113n\u0101 ko Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. Ki te whakarauikatia te tatau o t\u0113n\u0101 p\u016Btea kei te takiw\u0101 o te kotahi $142 miriona. Kei p\u014Dh\u0113h\u0113 te kaip\u0101tai m\u0101 runga i tana m\u0101tau papaku noa iho nei kei te h\u0113 w\u0113nei whika. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[This issue will not be elucidated by the greed of this questioner. We, this House, should be aware there are four pillars supporting the M\u0101ori language. First and foremost is the M\u0101ori Language Commission; the second is M\u0101ori Television; the next is Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho; and the next is Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. If the sum of all of that funding were to be brought together, it would be in the area of $142 million. Let the questioner not mistakenly believe that these figures are wrong due to the shallowness of his understanding.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022959a42348583481c9ff36502be4abf54\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235c31a8160974ec78a19c9a1881e2e62\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: [Listens to translation] Well, you wouldn\u2019t want me to start making rulings not knowing what\u2019s going on. So thank you for waiting; I appreciate your patience\u2014a rare thing in your case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c6101898c874fc5bd75b4a06077419a\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, no problem\u2014thank you, no problem, Mr Speaker. Happy to accommodate. Does the Minister stand by his statement \u201CI must be a strong advocate and contributor to M\u0101ori success\u201D, when, under his watch, he has cut funding to M\u0101ori development, supported the repeal of M\u0101ori wards and the M\u0101ori Health Authority, and, with today\u2019s announcement from CEO Shane Taurima, supported the funding cuts to Whakaata M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022497ad69101004b5382e482bc056ae2fb\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Times are a-changing. The entirety of the media is facing substantial pressures. Whakaata M\u0101ori was in receipt of short-term funding. Not unlike other elements of the media, it is having to cut its cloth. But, I repeat, there is $142 million which was not cut made available for the four pillars that uphold the strategy of the reo: Taura Whiri, Te M\u0101ngai P\u0101ho, Whakaata M\u0101ori, and Te M\u0101t\u0101wai. They probably can be made to collaborate and work closer together, and we look forward to hearing from the Minister how that might be achieved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bc2d336e87f476790a808c46a6991c0\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Given Whakaata M\u0101ori exists to uphold the Crown\u2019s duty to protect te reo M\u0101ori under the M\u0101ori Language Act 1987 and article 2 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, does he accept that his decision to cut funding by 25 percent is a breach of the M\u0101ori Language Act 1987 and Te Tiriti o Waitangi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f32324cc3cd41639f26e93ac9baec0d\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Me hoki an\u014D ahau ki taku kupu tuatahi ki te Whare: k\u0101hore e tika ana i tauporotia te tatau o te p\u016Btea m\u014D te Pouaka Whakaata M\u0101ori. Mai i te tau 2008 kua whakapikihia m\u0101 te 12 paih\u0113neti. N\u0101, p\u0113n\u0101 e turi ana ng\u0101 taringa o te kaipatapatai ki t\u0113nei whakautu \u0101ku, me hoki an\u014D ki te kura.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[I should return to my first statement to the House: it is not true that the total of funding for M\u0101ori Television has been reduced. Since 2008, it has increased by 12 percent. Now, if the ears of the questioner are deaf to this answer of mine, he should go back to school.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0052d838be54e1a863c7766916c393c\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: What does he believe will be the intergenerational impact of belittling te reo M\u0101ori, reducing its prominence, visibility, and audibility as a result of his Government\u2019s and his own actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263428648f38b413dafed98bb7c6391b0\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: The figures that the member refers to do not lie at the heart of the salvation of the M\u0101ori language. The M\u0101ori language will endure when the adherents of the language commit every day to perpetuating it. When the language is weaponised by junior MPs, we all suffer as a consequence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a93bb73369ee4d12b8b441d76df9d6df\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: He p\u0101tai an\u014D t\u0101ku. [I have another question.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1101d973a63440ea13fdf56ebba782b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Junior.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fe5720f0dc84490a5f6865c05d12460\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: Nau mai ki te marae, junior. [Welcome to the marae, junior.] What is his vision\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9b5e15799fe4e6387af115fb8dba8eb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on\u2014hang on a minute. That\u2019s not part of the deal, right? You\u2019re asking a question; you ask a supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223afd379b4c4e4a878a64f9002e6a2650\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: He k\u014Drero n\u014D t\u0113r\u0101 taha. [It was a statement from that side.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223b732033c5f49039a43a9d0a583cf4e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, don\u2019t respond to them\u2014don\u2019t respond to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002287c850cf-18f6-4be0-935a-0e24e0a352ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b384f62d43f47658645377cf730567d\u0022\u003ET\u0101kuta Ferris\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. What is his vision for the future of te reo M\u0101ori in broadcasting without a strong Whakaata M\u0101ori, and when will he stand up for his own tamariki and tell his coalition partners enough is enough?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cd650a856e14542a22c2950cffa1e0d\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Me hoki an\u014D ahau ki te whakam\u0101rama ki t\u0101 t\u0101tou tamaiti me p\u0113hea t\u0113nei kaupapa e whakatutukitia paitia ai. Ehara m\u0101 te p\u016Btea anake te reo M\u0101ori e rangatira ai. M\u0101 te \u016B o te ng\u0101kau. Ehara m\u0101 te whakatamariki k\u014Drero p\u0113nei me t\u0101ku e rongo nei i t\u0113r\u0101 pito o te Whare. Kua whakapikitia te tatau o ng\u0101 moni, kei te 12 paiheneti. K\u0101hore an\u014D t\u014D t\u0101tou reo kia whakap\u014Dharatia, ahakoa kei te whakaitingia te tatau o ng\u0101 kaimahi. He p\u0113n\u0101 katoa te ao p\u0101p\u0101ho.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E[I should go back and explain to our child how this topic can be successfully achieved. It will not be due to funding alone that the M\u0101ori language will be honoured. It will be by the dedication of the heart. It will not be by childlike statements like I am hearing from that end of the House. The total of the money has been increased, in the order of 12\u00A0percent. Our language has not been impoverished, despite the reduction in the number of staff. The entire broadcasting sector is the same.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c3492a029d4ee38843bd7b46bf3b78\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that someone could look at the 2008 figures and the current figures and yet say in this House that there\u2019s no increase at all when that, dramatically, is not the case and there\u2019s millions and millions of dollars out, on the negative, and he\u2019s wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022881598feedc046ffa76bbb635565782e\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: That question, related to the absence of understanding of financial matters, reflects the Prime Minister\u2019s statement\u2014utterly true. Too many young M\u0101ori can\u2019t count.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d56b326c80cd4871ba53f869cbbf8f87\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u2014Te Reo M\u0101ori, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000194\u0022\u003ESimultaneous Interpretation in Chamber\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002293a7ff2b80ee4c4fb8c95903c018922c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293a7ff2b80ee4c4fb8c95903c018922c\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I waited until the end of question time because I didn\u2019t want to interrupt, but, with the translations, there was often a lag. We were still trying to hear the end of the answer when the next question had been called. So, just for next time, if we could have a minor delay so that we could hear the entirety of the answer before the next question is called.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8142294272e4397b2955e2453aeaf99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8142294272e4397b2955e2453aeaf99\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s fair enough. Some of it, I was picking up, and probably you will recall I did say to Willie Jackson there was a need to wait for a few seconds. And I think, yeah, we can do that in the future if it is going to be more prominently used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002219aa7e99c79c4b9a8bf971ac4e56c584\u0022\u003EPrivilege\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd5b3daeed314001b571565bfbc7d62f\u0022\u003EConsideration of Report of Privileges Committee\u2014Question of privilege concerning investigations of possible breaches of court suppression orders in parliamentary proceedings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022 data-id=\u00225d186e9ac5514c7a91e87103ee987e23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d186e9ac5514c7a91e87103ee987e23\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Attorney-General):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the report of the Privileges Committee concerning investigations of possible breaches of court suppression orders in parliamentary proceedings be noted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Privileges Committee report on this issue has been presented to the House and is on the floor for members to see. On 29 August 2023, the Speaker referred a general question of privilege to the committee. This followed allegations that a member, Rawiri Waititi, may have breached a court suppression order during parliamentary question time earlier that day \u201Cby referring to potentially suppressed information in the House, which would be contrary to the Standing Orders. The Speaker noted that he did not intend to inquire into matters that might be suppressed, as doing so could be inconsistent with the principle of comity between the legislative and judicial branches of government. He noted that it was difficult to investigate whether the member had committed a contempt, as an investigation risked compounding any harm caused by potentially confirming the existence of a suppression order and possibly identifying the subject of it.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe general question of privilege referred to the committee was how the House should deal with cases where a member may have referred to a matter in breach of a suppression order, but where investigating it could be inconsistent with the order if one exists. In the situation that led to this referral, the Speaker dealt with the member\u2019s conduct as a matter of order. In the Speaker\u2019s referral, he noted the requirements of Standing Order 116, which sets out a process by which a member must give the Speaker written notice of their intention to refer to a suppressed matter, so that the Speaker can consider whether to allow it. The Speaker stated that Mr Waititi did not give notice before referring to a matter that was apparently suppressed by a court and that he did not know whether Mr Waititi\u2019s failure to give notice was because he chose not to or because there was no such order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Speaker noted that Mr Waititi\u2019s comments \u201Cgave the reasonable impression that the member believed the matter was subject to suppression but referred to it anyway.\u201D The Speaker concluded that the conduct was \u201Cgrossly disorderly.\u201D He named Mr Waititi and asked the House to suspend him, which was agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EThe Privileges Committee notes that \u201COne of Parliament\u2019s fundamental privileges is that of free speech in the House.\u201D, which is there \u201Cto protect parliamentary proceedings from legal action. However, Parliament [also] has a responsibility to ensure that its privileges are not used in a manner that frustrates the courts\u2019 jurisdiction or that undermines the relationship between the branches, as the relationship is of fundamental constitutional importance. The branches\u2019 disposition towards each other\u2019s jurisdiction is expressed in our system by the principle of comity. Comity is often understood as mutual respect and restraint, and the effort exerted by both branches to uphold the other\u2019s privileges. The House, under Standing Order 116, has imposed an expectation that referring to matters before a court, or matters suppressed by a court order, should only be undertaken in accordance with that Standing Order as a reasonable limitation on the privilege of free speech in the House. This is an important expression of Parliament\u2019s respect for the judicial branch\u2019s jurisdiction; it is appropriate for the courts to be able to decide what information about their proceedings should be publicly available.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002285ec30d4-6394-433a-a12e-2c4def705dd0\u0022\u003EOn the day in question, the Speaker took time \u201Cto review the situation after it was raised during oral questions, and then raised it again as a matter of order at a subsequent sitting.\u201D The Privileges Committee considered \u201Cthat taking time to consider the matter, while also preventing ongoing discussion of the matter on the day, could reduce the exposure of potentially suppressed information. We consider that the approach adopted by the Speaker in this case was the most appropriate course of action, given that it was\u00A0not\u00A0clear that a suppression order existed and investigating the matter further might risk compromising any suppression that was in place. We encourage other presiding officers to consider taking this [action] if a similar situation arises in the future.\u201D Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00227495737a0cc748d2a875c81cc119c468\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227495737a0cc748d2a875c81cc119c468\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c3f57082ff04ded97a545d642b226b5\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Can we stand to speak to it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002276a0ff00b64c4b8a92a291a6d210209c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276a0ff00b64c4b8a92a291a6d210209c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286051d930cdc473ca9188aad3618a19e\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Are we able to speak to it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b45ff6f00343443a9a1a0f6fbdf3db0e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes\u2014that\u2019s why I called it, sorry. We\u2019re in a difficult situation because we\u2019ve just voted on it. So I think I don\u2019t want to reverse things, but I don\u2019t want to make things\u2014it\u2019s an important issue, and I\u2019ll seek the House\u2019s leave for there to be one speech on this matter. There appears to be leave for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u002237895894ff5e4d339747f8b92c4eb117\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237895894ff5e4d339747f8b92c4eb117\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you and my apologies for the misunderstanding, and I thank the House for their support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EFirst of all, ka t\u016B ahau ki te mihi ki te kaupapa i mua i a t\u0101tou. [First of all, I stand to acknowledge the subject before us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori stands to acknowledge the Speaker\u2019s decision at the time and to acknowledge the mahi of the Privileges Committee. We received that and have been more aware and respectful, obviously, of the decision of principle of comity and acknowledge the process for Standing Order 116. We acknowledge the decision and the reminder of the Parliament\u2019s relationship with the court and the utmost constitutional importance of that respect. I guess\u2014given the week that we\u2019ve had, with the decisions or the comments with politicians calling judges communist\u2014it\u2019s probably a good, timely reminder for us all politically. We acknowledge that the public has the right to know. We acknowledge what suppression orders are about. We also acknowledge the decisions of needing to know now and the suppression orders used to protect victims. And also acknowledge the fact that suppression orders aren\u2019t always used as the fact that a person is well-known is not lightly a reason why, I guess, suppression orders continue. We acknowledge also as Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori that if and when suppression orders are lifted, that is the appropriate time to talk about it. Ng\u0101 mihi, kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002289ac23605da24ca48b67f54d1a2008d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289ac23605da24ca48b67f54d1a2008d7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think we need to put that vote again because the House has dealt with that. I thank the member for that contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002287335b8d17f3405ba48ef0ba093dd67e\u0022\u003ECourts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ffe2335d47284bf2b859d3243c46fac5\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022badf1fecc92741f2bc0b8ce872f08bd9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022badf1fecc92741f2bc0b8ce872f08bd9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to present a legislative statement on the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228678e53387734ae9abbd2af719237c2f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course of action. Is there any objection to that? There appears to be none. That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the parliamentary website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1a9b23bb3034a7a9f9465922617e389\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to be here to speak to the third reading of the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill. This bill returning to the House signals another step towards fulfilling the Government\u2019s commitment to enable more remote participation in court proceedings and achieves our target of passing the bill into law this quarter. This work forms part of the Government\u2019s core priorities to restore law and order and to improve court performance and access to justice so that people can move on with their lives faster. The greater use of remote participation can help us achieve this goal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAs we know, our courts are under pressure, and delays in court processes have a significant impact on court participants\u2014particularly those who are vulnerable, such as victims of crime. The drivers for these delays are complex and have been exacerbated by events such as the COVID-19 pandemic. The use of technologies makes courts more efficient and accessible and will play a key part in helping us to achieve our goals. This bill reflects one step in that direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn addition, remote participation can provide benefits such as reduced travel time and reduced costs for participants in the community. Remote participation of defendants who are in custody reduces the risk of violent incidents being perpetrated by high-risk defendants during transport to the court or in the court itself. Remote participation can also reduce transport and security costs for Corrections and Police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ETo remind everyone, the bill makes three discreet changes to improve and clarify the legislation governing remote participation in court proceedings\u2014two amendments are to the Courts (Remote Participation) Act 2010 and one is to the Criminal Procedure Act 2011. Firstly, the bill gives victims and their support people the option to observe criminal trials and sentencing remotely instead of in person, if suitable technology is available and a judicial officer or court registrar considers this to be appropriate. Remote observation will not be appropriate or available in all situations. For example, natural justice requires that where a victim is also a witness in the trial, they cannot hear the testimony of other witnesses before giving evidence themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis amendment will give victims a safer and easier option to attend criminal trials and sentencing as it will enable them to avoid the stress and the potential for revictimisation and intimidation from attending court in person. Victims may also benefit from reduced travelling time and associated costs. However, I anticipate that some victims will still want to attend in person, and, importantly, they are still able to do so if they wish. This amendment will come into effect six months after Royal assent. This additional time is needed to allow for the development of new court processes and supporting material.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe second change allows the use of audio links, such as telephone conference calls, for appropriate criminal, civil, and Family Court proceedings. I\u2019m confident that the existing safeguards in the Act and the new safeguards in the bill will ensure that the use of audio links is in line with the principles of natural justice and will uphold the rights of parties. For example, audio links will be able to be used only when the judicial officer or court registrar is satisfied that the parties will be able to effectively comprehend and participate in proceedings. This recognises that audio links would usually not be appropriate for participants who are vulnerable due to their age, cognitive ability, or language comprehension.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFurther, the bill prohibits audio links being used in criminal proceedings that defendants attend, because it is critical to the delivery of justice that defendants can engage effectively in proceedings that affect them. Likewise, proceedings under mental health legislation that will determine whether a person needs to be compulsorily detained and treated will not be able to be held using audio links if the person is required to attend the hearing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe use of audio links will increase the number of people that are able to participate remotely. The Act currently authorises the use of audiovisual technology only. Many people in the community who are involved in court proceedings may not have access to audiovisual technology, and with this change they will still be able to avoid the time, the cost, and the effort of travelling to court for short procedural hearings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe third change makes permanent what was a temporary amendment to the law during the pandemic. That change clarified that remote participation in criminal proceedings and remote observation by the media and the public are consistent with the principle of open\u00A0justice. Open justice enables public scrutiny of criminal proceedings and promotes public understanding of and public confidence in the criminal courts. With the growing use of remote participation in court proceedings, this statutory clarification needs to be permanent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EWe are also undertaking a first-principles review of the Courts (Remote Participation) Act. This review aims to identify a clear, enduring regulatory framework that will enhance access to justice, promote efficiency, and enable more remote participation in court proceedings without compromising the interests of justice. The Ministry of Justice will be engaging with the judiciary and other agencies as the review progresses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, these three changes strike the important balance between providing more efficient and accessible ways to participate in court proceedings, fair trial rights, and the fundamental constitutional principles of judicial independence and the separation of powers. The bill maintains judicial control over the use of remote participation in courts and recognises that it will not always be appropriate or possible for technology to be used in some court proceedings. The Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill is one step towards our wider goal of enabling more remote participation in court proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis is the first bill that I have taken through all stages in this House as a Minister of Government. It was pleasing to see this bill gain full support across the House yesterday, as all parties recognise the benefits it will bring to our under-pressure courts and victims impacted by delays in justice. I know a number of other bills I may bring to this House may not receive the same sort of support as they progress, but I am very glad that this one has. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002273c09ddd2f754ec281081245e1364e3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273c09ddd2f754ec281081245e1364e3e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and a pleasure to speak on this bill. Before I do, might I just recognise Lucy Callaghan who\u2019s made some of these daffodils that some of us are wearing today. I know her family\u2019s been personally affected by cancer, and this is her way of contributing. So well done, Lucy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f1d8a79bf804fba9427e80991e80902\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We perhaps should have recognised that earlier in the day\u2014it\u2019s a huge effort, and I\u2019m very pleased to wear one as well. Would anyone else like to stand up and show they\u2019re wearing them? [Members stand] That\u2019s very good, thank you. That\u2019ll cover that. And that all comes out of your time, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d2e0af1a5b840469626f5a73b3926f3\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Very happy\u2014very happy for that because I\u2019m not going to take long. It is good that the Minister is bringing a bill\u2014her first bill to completion\u2014that is supported across the House. I can confirm that that won\u2019t be the case for a number of other bills in her name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook, this is a good bill. It\u2019s a pragmatic bill. I do think, you know, I\u2019ve expressed concerns in the committee stage of this House on this bill that the Minister responded to in a very fulsome way. The concerns about this bill are essentially that the technology won\u2019t keep up with the demands. I was assured by the Minister that in her executive capacity, she\u2019s going to make sure that that happens and that there are processes in place. Practically, we\u2019re concerned that the rights of defendants; whilst written in the law, they\u2019ve got a right to attend, in practice they might be encouraged not to attend court even if they want to. That\u2019s another important consideration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAlso, and probably most importantly for victims, we want to make sure that this piece of legislation doesn\u2019t erode the right of victims should they choose to do so, to essentially look the perpetrator, the offender in the eye and see them at the different stages of the criminal proceedings. Of course, importantly, sentencing\u2014there\u2019s no suggestion that sentencing will occur in the absence of the perpetrator, but other aspects of the proceedings as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe bill itself\u2014and I won\u2019t go through the details of it; that\u2019s been done most ably by the Minister already. The bill itself does increase administrative efficiency, but more importantly in many ways, it increases the effectiveness and openness of the justice system so that more people can participate in it more easily. For that reason, we will be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad4976c0594c4624bba7a187625c0fd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad4976c0594c4624bba7a187625c0fd6\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Thank you for allowing us to get up and support this bill, which I understand has support across the House. I really just want to reaffirm the statements that we made last week on the second reading of this bill to say that, yep, the Greens support this bill. We think the key benefit from this bill is that it will allow people who have been victims of harm to be able to observe proceedings from a space that makes them feel safe, whether that\u2019s at home or with their family or with their friends or anywhere that allows them to be safe and to prevent that physical contact between themselves and the perpetrators of the abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EWe noted that this might improve the court backlogs that are currently being experienced by the courts. Repeating a fact that I made last week that when I looked into the court backlogs, I found that 142,000 court events have been delayed because of the pandemic since March 2020. That\u2019s 142,000 court events out of 2.4 million appearances for sentencings, bail applications, and pretrial hearings. When I looked into the psychological impact on those backlogs for people who have been harmed and are awaiting their time in court, I found this quote from a survivor of sexual violence, Rosie Veldkamp, who said, \u201CMy mental health was getting worse. I was just always upset and honestly felt like it was never going to happen.\u201D I know that waiting for the trial can be quite psychologically harmful for people who have been victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s not a whole lot more to add about this bill. I think it\u2019s pretty straightforward. I guess the only thing we wanted to raise too is that, yep, this bill presents benefits for victims who are participating in the justice system and in the courts, and there have been many recommendations about other ways that we can improve our courtrooms to make them less traumatising, less triggering for people who have experienced harm. Some other suggestions that have been made to have a trauma-informed approach to courtrooms include lowering the judge\u2019s bench to not have it towering over survivors, well-lit car parks, warm and welcoming artwork, making sure that there are safe blocked-off waiting areas for survivors, as well as having secure entrances and exits to courtrooms. Some survivors have even called on the courts to implement totally separate facilities for victims in the courthouse to keep them away from perpetrators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThere isn\u2019t a whole lot more to add to this bill, except to say it\u2019s great that we can have a moment of unity. We support the bill and kia ora koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u002289ccb02cf2934cbb9b80941239397601\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289ccb02cf2934cbb9b80941239397601\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This bill represents a significant step forward in modernising our justice system. It improves access to justice and addresses many challenges that have long plagued our courts\u2014challenges which were well laid out by the previous member, Tamatha Paul, in her contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI wanted to state for the record my congratulations to the Minister for bringing her first bill, one of many I\u2019m sure, through the House to near completion. And I just wanted to also acknowledge the Justice Committee for the hard work they did on this bill as well. It is the committee\u2019s careful consideration, and this House\u2019s careful consideration, which ensures that the bill we are presented with today is both robust and responsive to the needs of our justice system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EAt its core, this bill is about three fundamental principles: efficiency, accessibility, and protection. Efficiency is paramount in our justice system. As we have said many times in this House, by many members, justice delayed is justice denied. We currently face a significant backlog in our courts. The member opposite referred to over 100,000 incidents of delays. Some cases in our courts take up to 500 days for a jury trial and some 18 months for victims of serious crimes to have their day in court. This is unacceptable. This bill will go some way to enable the greater use of remote participation, help streamline court processes, reduce unnecessary adjournments, and ultimately speed up the delivery of justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EAccessibility is the second key principle of this bill. Our justice system must be accessible to all New Zealanders regardless of their geographic location, physical abilities, and personal circumstances. Remote participation opens up new avenues for engagement with the court system. It means witnesses in remote areas can more easily access the justice system. I\u2019m aware that the Ministry of Justice is undertaking further programmes to improve the level of accessibility in our courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThirdly, our principle of protection\u2014one which is particularly important to this side of the House and is particularly crucial when it comes to protecting victims of crime. Now, this bill does give victims and their support persons the option to observe criminal trials and sentencing remotely. This is a significant step forward in victim protection and support. For many victims in our country, the prospect of turning up to court, facing their perpetrator in court, can be particularly re-traumatising. Providing that option of remote participation helps empower victims to engage with the justice process on their own terms in a way which feels safe and manageable to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ELook, in conclusion, it\u2019s been traversed quite often, quite regularly, in all stages of the House. It\u2019s supported across the House today. The bill represents what we think is a very balanced and pragmatic approach to modernising the court system. It enhances efficiency without compromising fairness, it improves accessibility without undermining the gravity and importance of court proceedings in our legal system, and it provides additional protections for victims without infringing on the rights of victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EI commend the bill to the House, and I urge all members to continue giving it their full support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4f35efacaab4b019cb421d551ce29bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4f35efacaab4b019cb421d551ce29bf\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill. New Zealand First, like all other parties in the House, supports this bill. It is common sense, and a bill that has been traversed through the Justice Committee. I am a member of that committee, and the support for that through submissions\u2014it was well supported, with some minor concerns that were raised that I will touch on as I go through this speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe bill represents a targeted yet critical step towards modernising our court system and increasing access to justice in New Zealand. The court system faces significant delays, and those significant delays we know are something that we want to speed up in the court system, particularly in criminal and family jurisdictions within the District Court. These delays affect all participants in the justice system, especially victims. If we think about the victims, if we can make the court system move quicker and more efficiently, it is better for our victims getting a result through the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First is a champion of the victims in our justice system and we are willing to do whatever we can to help put them first. By expanding remote participation, this bill addresses several challenges by making the court process more efficient, accessible, and safer for all that are involved. We strongly support the victim-centred approach of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe first amendment that the chair of the Justice Committee has just outlined is the amendment that creates a presumption that victims can observe criminal trials and sentencings remotely. This is a vital step in supporting victims\u2019 rights, offering them more control over how they participate in the justice process. Victims who wish to observe proceedings remotely can do so when suitable technology is available, while preserving judicial discretion to ensure the integrity of the court process. For many people, this will reduce stress, travel costs\u2014as we know, travelling to courts across the country is not cheap\u2014and it\u2019s also around safety risks for victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe second amendment allows for the use of audio links such as teleconferences for remote proceedings in certain circumstances. This flexibility is essential for participants who may have to access audiovisual technology. Importantly, in criminal cases, defendants will still be required to appear, and I think that is really important to stress. There is the ability for judicial discretion over when this technology is used, but there are the cases where defendants will need to still appear, to ensure fairness, while in civil matters, remote participation will be allowed only if all parties can effectively participate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThe third amendment clarifies the relationship between remote participation and open justice, ensuring that the courts remain transparent, even when proceedings are conducted remotely. This amendment makes permanent a temporary change enacted during the pandemic, enforcing the principle that justice must be seen to be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports this bill as it balances innovation with the need to protect the rights and interests of all participants in the justice system. The bill brings our courts into the modern era, making them more accessible, efficient, and fairer for everyone. By enabling more remote participation, we are not only improving court performance but also upholding the fundamental principles of justice and fairness that define the New Zealand legal system. On that basis, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdd77919c4184f85818c7045750c78b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdd77919c4184f85818c7045750c78b0\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just want to echo some of the sentiments around the House this afternoon. I also want to acknowledge Lucy for the beautiful brooch. My mother died of melanoma also, and I was 40 years old, and to lose your father at 14 is a cruel fate in life. I wish I\u2019d thought of something as meaningful to do at the time as you have thought of in producing these beautiful daffodils. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EOne thing I want to acknowledge is that the quality of the technology is really important. As we well know in this House, bad audio is a problem. The audio in this House is excellent, and it\u2019s challenging to consider that for both defendants and victims and the whole courtroom process it\u2019s very important that there is proper investment in the actual audio technology so that people can hear what\u2019s going on in this remote audio legislation. I would urge the Minister to consider that because that is a thing that risks harming the justice for all parties in the court process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWe support, very much, further supporting victims from worsening exacerbation of the trauma that they have suffered in being the victims of crime, from their perpetrators. I\u2019ve been before the courts myself a few times, not for crimes of moral turpitude, but I\u2019ve always been struck by what it must be like for victims to have to actually share a room with the person who has committed harm against them. To have to get out of bed that morning and think about it for weeks to come and turn up in court and walk into the same little room and have to look in the face the person who\u2019s harmed them. There are many people who rightly do not want to do that and should not have to do that. For that reason, we commend this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThere are others who will want to do that, and they should retain the right to do that. Likewise, I think the other risk is for defendants who may want to appear in court. Many may not also want to appear in court, and that is fair enough. I think my colleague here made a legitimate point that the defendants need to be protected from the risk that they will come under pressure to not appear in court. If we are to have natural justice, if we are to have a thorough process where we recognise the principle that all accused are innocent until proven guilty, then we need to make sure defendants know that they have that right to appear in court should they wish to\u2014even though we know that will cost the justice system more in practical terms and effort to get people to court. That is something that I think needs to be watched and scrutinised to make sure that defendants are not coming under pressure to not appear in court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EJustice delayed is justice denied; I echo the sentiments of my colleague James Meager. Justice delayed is justice denied for all parties, for both victims and for defendants. I happened to be involved in a matter that was before the court during the COVID time, when the courts shut down for a prolonged period. And when I heard from lawyers of their clients\u2014in their language\u2014\u201Crotting on remand\u201D because they were waiting for weeks and weeks and months and months for their hearings to come up, it was an example of where justice delayed is justice denied for both the accused and for the victims. I echo those sentiments that, if we can deal with that backlog, if we can speed up the process by which these issues come to the court, that is a good thing for all and that is a good thing for justice in this country. We will be, as the Green Party, supporting this bill. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u002212ef1a371155409c877ea7d9c56d2044\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212ef1a371155409c877ea7d9c56d2044\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Mr Speaker. I rise, also, to add my support to this bill, the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill. I\u2019d also love to start by congratulating the Minister for Courts, the Hon Nicole McKee, for this being your first bill which you\u2019ve taken through from genesis to now, hopefully, the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e11aad121ef41f8aa15e9e35a245acd\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Genesis again!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022461dab15e40445e48d0b3f9ecddd059c\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, the genesis. Thank you for shepherding this bill. To our listeners at home, including my beautiful husband\u2014well, he\u2019s at work\u2014what we\u2019re doing here today is, essentially, the third reading where we\u2019re allowing more remote participation to take place in our courts. [Change in presiding officer] Welcome, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289077dd28f2541a190c7613186f9d3d3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235f516b2140947b18228333b3fd37933\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: In essence, this amendment bill is what we call an \u201Comnibus bill\u201D, where it\u2019s a combination of more than one bill and where the effect, the ultimate goal, is the single broad policy. In this situation, it\u2019s implementing these amendments in this bill to increase remote participation in court proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s a lot that has been said about this bill. Here, I\u2019d like to acknowledge our very able and excellent chair of the Justice Committee, James Meager.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EBefore I wrap up the third speech on this bill, I would like to highlight the Disabled Persons Assembly (New Zealand) submission, which I didn\u2019t get to highlight last time, in the second reading. What they said is: \u201CCovid has highlighted the importance of remote participation \u2026 Remote participation also allows disabled people to participate more effectively in multiple avenues that have previously been inaccessible to them.\u201D I\u2019m glad that they feel this way about this amendment. I\u2019m looking forward to this becoming enacted into law. We commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea4d9704549246ec812e252e6b460afa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea4d9704549246ec812e252e6b460afa\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m more than happy to take a very quick call on the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill. Labour supports this bill, as has already been said, mainly because it\u2019s a relatively simple and straightforward way to modernise our judicial system. It lends itself to the pilot, so to speak, that was done via the COVID-19 pandemic, which, like in various other sectors, provided us with some genuine innovation and some examples of things that we could do better in the future. Therefore, I commend the Minister for Courts and all those involved in ensuring that this is one of those areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EHaving said that though, as has been mentioned by several other speakers, there\u2019s obviously some things to keep our eye on, not the least of which is to make sure that it doesn\u2019t just get used conveniently and as the default, and when it is contrary to the best interests of all those involved, but particularly those victims who may want to have their day in court, so to speak, and not wish to utilise this process. One of the risks that we\u2019ve heard other people talk about, as I said, is that it would become the default. It is incumbent upon us to watch that process quite closely and to ensure that it doesn\u2019t just end up being a bit of a cost saving measure. We also have to be cautious, as my Green Party colleague Steve Abel has just said, that the suitable resources are invested in this domain to make sure that the tech is available, to make sure that it\u2019s well maintained, that it\u2019s capable of doing what it needs to do to meet that demand. Having said that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u00228ef9399ba51d4c7b91356322b7ae23a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ef9399ba51d4c7b91356322b7ae23a6\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very pleased to rise in support of the third reading of the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill and want to join the chorus of congratulating our Minister for Courts, the Hon Nicole McKee, who is also our associate justice Minister and is doing a terrific job with her portfolios right across her brief, and she\u2019s not bad on Q\u002BA either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s remarkable that here on the last day of winter\u2014as far as our sitting goes, our parliamentary last day of winter\u2014we come together as a House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220912374e84c84d0189cd96155de0de67\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s always winter when you lot are in power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022469baef92fed4a91aa6d6fa658b91352\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: We come together, Deborah, in this House as one. And, Deborah Russell, I\u2019m hoping with other legislation that the Hon Nicole McKee puts through the House that we\u2019ll also come together with unanimous support. I hope this is the beginning of something great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EI also want to note that this is also a reflection of a positive aspect that came out\u2014possibly one of the few\u2014of the COVID-19 pandemic and lockdowns, which we saw as a society: faster enablement and enactment of remote participation, whether it be in education, in business, in Parliament, in community organisations, and indeed now in the courts. This amendment, as has been alluded to, makes permanent a temporary change that we saw in 2020 with the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act. That will be repealed and this will be in place, enabling, as others have well canvassed, more virtual participation in court proceedings, which is the Government\u2019s objective of improving court performance generally. I commend the bill, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022721a15adb5484ce9b261e2ccab224b51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022721a15adb5484ce9b261e2ccab224b51\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Willow-Jean Prime; this is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00221ee9334bd0da4699a2c84079bbcdd923\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ee9334bd0da4699a2c84079bbcdd923\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker\u2014just a short contribution on the third reading of the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill. I have listened to the entire debate, and while the last speaker, Cameron Brewer, got quite\u00A0excited and a bit carried away assuming, or hoping, that we might support some of the other legislation that the Minister for Courts is going to bring through, that won\u2019t be the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003EIn terms of this one, I do want to acknowledge that there are good reasons for this bill being introduced\u2014the improvements in efficiencies and access to justice, and so on, that we\u2019ve heard. I do really want to also add my caution to this House, and to us all\u2014that\u00A0this doesn\u2019t become the default for our justice system, that we don\u2019t see this being used more and more as a cost savings exercise, that we don\u2019t see that this is a justification for any under-investment into our facilities and so on. So, with that, I just want to add my voice to the cautious support that we have for aspects of this bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u0022fef8c1719685449f960109261a553a61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fef8c1719685449f960109261a553a61\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Good afternoon, Madam Speaker. Well, cautious support or wholehearted support, I think it\u2019s something that the whole House should be doing. Look, this is about improving the performance of our courts more generally, and that\u2019s why I\u2019m supporting it. We\u2019ve heard from the other side. We heard from the Greens about the backlog in the courts. I think we\u2019ve hit the bingo card of \u201Cjustice delayed is justice denied\u201D, but, of course, it\u2019s true, and we do need to work our way through that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EI do hear the concerns that were raised just before about the quality of audiovisual (AV) and the use of technology. Actually, I think the considerations are a little broader than that. It\u2019s about how we use this appropriately, and there will be instances where it\u2019s not appropriate, or, in fact, it may not even be possible to use AV technology. It\u2019s important that we bring these tools in, that we continue to modernise, that we continue to innovate and give our courts the tools that they need to do the job, and as I read through this bill, that\u2019s what I see. I see this as a great way of giving courts the option to use it where appropriate, and that\u2019s why I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022028a1c9b842d47debd3ec9aeb259e9c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022028a1c9b842d47debd3ec9aeb259e9c0\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to stand as the final speaker on this bill on the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill third reading, just prior to it coming into law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EI wanted to say that the court system is currently experiencing massive delays, particularly in the criminal and family jurisdictions of the District Court. These delays are felt by all participants in the justice system, but particularly the victims. Enabling more virtual participation in court proceedings contributes to the Government\u2019s objective of improving court performance generally. Virtual or remote participation, when used appropriately, can increase access to justice and support the efficient and timely resolution of court proceedings. We\u2019ve heard about \u201Cjustice delayed is justice denied\u201D. I say to my colleagues, to delay justice is injustice. It gives me great pleasure to be the final speaker on this bill, and I commend the bill to the House and into law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a3d5724a92b44456a973d68b369339e1\u0022\u003ETaxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201325, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bf77e7a030774a3a9e965051a428e25e\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022 data-id=\u00220391a3ded16e4a39936fc6a13878cbb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220391a3ded16e4a39936fc6a13878cbb2\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to present a legislative statement on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201325, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d47a7abebd94562a05bc1a1c8756ed3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is none. That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223502104c781a43dca008b8412d6c5a07\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201325, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that deals with the 21st century issues and the reality of life in New Zealand today. It recognises the role that the tax system and Inland Revenue play in the lives of our citizens and the economy. The bill also recognises the role of New Zealand on the world stage. The Government and I, as revenue Minister, have been focused on ensuring we continue to strengthen and rebuild the economy to ensure New Zealand businesses and individuals have a secure future. We know times have been challenging for New Zealanders, which is why this bill includes a number and a range of proposals aimed at enhancing the tax system to make life easier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EI want to highlight some of the key features of the bill. First, the bill proposes that certain tax relief measures be activated through an Order in Council so people affected by an emergency event can receive relief sooner. In recent times, New Zealand has suffered a series of emergency events, ranging from the Canterbury earthquakes to M.\u00A0bovis outbreaks, to devastating floods, and, of course, the COVID-19 pandemic. Each time, the tax system has played its role by providing tax relief to those affected, and each time that relief was provided, the Government had to make changes by way of parliamentary Acts to allow aspects of that relief to flow to affected parties. Working through primary legislation is far more speedy and we need to make the necessary changes to provide greater certainty and get affected people relief faster. That\u2019s why the Government is making this proposal for certain tax relief measures to be activated through an Order in Council instead. This would not be automatic because Ministers would retain the discretion to determine which measures should apply, and when, for any given future emergency event.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe bill also proposes to allow Inland Revenue to share information with other agencies upon request, to help them carry out their roles in providing emergency assistance, such as the Ministry of Health. Overall, this set of proposals would help streamline the Government-wide emergency response to ensure that we are more prepared to deal with the impacts of climate change and other emergency events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe bill also proposes to address issues with KiwiSaver so that it can better support New Zealanders trying to secure their economic future. Future Kiwis, or people moving to New Zealand, who are wanting to bring their overseas pension funds with them often face a financial obstacle. They may incur New Zealand tax on the transfer. This causes problems for people who have relocated to New Zealand and are unable to pay New Zealand tax. If they can withdraw these funds from their scheme, this can also result in tax charges from their home country. This Government wants future Kiwis to invest here, which is why we are proposing a \u201Cschemes pay\u201D option. This would allow a migrant to elect for their New Zealand provider to pay the New Zealand tax due on the transfer at a flat rate of 28 percent directly to Inland Revenue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EThe bill also proposes to address another issue relating to the transfer of pension funds. In 2015, a change in UK legislation meant that KiwiSaver schemes ceased to meet certain requirements. Some migrants who transferred their pensions from the UK to KiwiSaver schemes in New Zealand prior to that change cannot now transfer them from KiwiSaver to another scheme without incurring UK tax charges\u2014this locks the funds into those KiwiSaver schemes. To simplify this, this bill proposes to allow KiwiSaver providers and individuals to be able to move locked-in funds from their scheme into one that meets the UK criteria, meaning that there will be no ongoing UK tax implications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EYoung New Zealanders who are wanting to secure their economic future here in New Zealand should be able to do so. At present, a person aged under 16 who wishes to join KiwiSaver requires the consent of all guardians or parents. This means that a sole parent wishing to enrol a child under the age of 16 in KiwiSaver may face difficulty getting agreement from a former partner. In today\u2019s society, there are many more sole parents than there were when the scheme was introduced in 2007, and our tax system must reflect the modern reality of our country. We are proposing that people under the age of 16 be allowed to enrol in KiwiSaver with the agreement of just one parent or guardian.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ENew Zealand needs its tax system to be able to deal with the issues of the 21st century, including the emergence of crypto-assets. Since the first crypto-asset, Bitcoin, was introduced in 2009, the market for crypto-assets worldwide has grown significantly. Between 6 percent and 10 percent of New Zealanders own some of the cryptocurrency, with most of their transactions undertaken through offshore exchanges. The current market capitalisation for crypto-assets worldwide is in the region of NZ$4 trillion. That figure will only grow as more people enter the trade, attracted in part because tax authorities have limited visibility of income derived through crypto-assets. This means that people trading in crypto may not be paying their fair share of tax. The OECD therefore developed a reporting framework to address this data gap, ensuring an automatic exchange of this tax-relevant information on crypto-assets between countries. This bill will incorporate the OECD\u2019s framework proposal into New Zealand law and be effective from the 2026-27 tax year. This is a sensible measure, as it supports the integrity of our tax system; people must pay their fair share of tax even as they invest and grow their wealth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003EGrowth is something that this Government wants to encourage, and we are committed to supporting the tech sector and start-ups. An existing way to be able to do that is through encouraging the use of employee share schemes, which makes it easier for companies to attract and retain that talent. We recognise these schemes are an important way for paying employees in New Zealand. We want to make sure that the exempt scheme, which allows employers to provide tax-exempt benefits, remains fit for purpose. The bill proposes that thresholds relating to exempt employee share schemes are increased to recognise the effect of past inflation but also to buffer against future inflation. The proposal would apply to offers of shares made under exempt employee share schemes on or after 1 April 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022713ccc5b-7ff0-4fa5-ab58-4780620184fe\u0022\u003ETo round off, these are only some of the features of this taxation bill today at first reading. All proposed changes in the bill, whether outlined today or not, will play an important role in ensuring our tax system strengthens the economy, with businesses and individuals having a secure future ahead. This is important now more than ever, as although we have seen positive impacts to the economy, there is still more work to be done. I therefore commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00220f94981aeac4493b8e6e1f403860dc45\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f94981aeac4493b8e6e1f403860dc45\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00221d4bac81f3e6478b9b8c1711f8748342\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d4bac81f3e6478b9b8c1711f8748342\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to make a few comments on this tax bill and some of the issues that the Minister has outlined. First up, I wish to speak to the annual rates. As the Minister said, this is an annual bill that has to go through the House. The tax rates have to be confirmed. It\u2019s a constitutional matter. If they are not confirmed by 31 March, then tax can\u2019t be charged and the Government has an issue, so it\u2019s an important thing that we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EHowever, notably, this particular bill does not make any changes to the actual rates of tax, although there are some very minor amendments to Schedule 1 of the Income Tax Act. In terms of the tax rates that have been set for this current year, they were actually changed in the Budget night legislation. There\u2019s no particular debate on the tax rates themselves in this bill, and the constitutional requirement is sitting there for the annual tax rates. I just wish to make it clear that, although Labour is supporting this bill at the first reading, that is not to do with the tax rates themselves per se; it is just to do with the fact that by and large, these are pretty sensible tax measures and the actual debate on the tax rates will come in the committee stage of this bill. We do have some issues with them; it\u2019s just not worth debating in the context of this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the crypto-assets legislation and, in particular, the way that is being incorporated into the Income Tax Act. Now, in the previous year, in 2023, one of the pieces of tax legislation that went through the House was the legislation incorporating the Global Anti-Base Erosion Model rules, which are to do with minimum tax rates for large multinationals and so on, incorporating them into our tax legislation. At the time, it was chosen to do that by reference to the OECD rules rather than by incorporating those rules directly into our own legislation. It was for the reasons of the complexity of the rules. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAt that time, the members of the National Party had a tremendous sort of alarm around talking about how we were surrendering our sovereignty and it was terrible that we were outsourcing our tax legislation to a foreign entity, and lo and behold, it\u2019s happening again. I want to examine the extent to which that is happening at the select committee stage to have a look at the exact way that these new rules for crypto-assets are incorporated into our legislation. Tax legislation is a little complex. We\u2019ve had this bill in front of us for just a few days, so this is not going to be a reason to speak against the bill or for it or whatever; I just want to understand that particular bit of the legislation, how those rules are going to be incorporated into our Income Tax Act, so that will be, I\u2019m sure, an exciting part of the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI also want to refer to the off-the-shelf measures that have been put in place for dealing with emergencies. This was something that was discussed under the previous Government, and indeed it is a sensible thing to do. I know that as we were dealing with Cyclone Gabrielle and the Auckland anniversary weekend floods that around those was proposed a set of tax measures that gave sort of some short-term temporary relief to individuals and businesses that were affected by those events. At the time we said, \u201CHang on a second. We\u2019re just recreating some of the stuff we had in place during COVID-19, during the pandemic.\u201D We reached the conclusion that it would be pretty helpful to have a set of off-the-shelf measures that were pretty standard that could be put in place when emergencies occurred, so it\u2019s good to see that that set of measures is sitting in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EAgain, we\u2019ll want to look at the exact measures and whether they do achieve the end they are supposed to. I am particularly concerned about the information sharing which is put in place as a measure that the commissioner can put into place, so I want to have a look at how that is going to work and whether, again, it is worth having that as something that can be done at the commissioner\u2019s discretion rather than, say, at a Minister\u2019s discretion. Again, let\u2019s see how that goes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EThere is a number of things to work through on this bill. Of course, that is what the select committee process is for. I\u2019m looking forward to working through it with my colleagues from the other side of the House and of course with the experts who will come in to advise us, and we\u2019ll see where this bill goes. In the meantime, as I said, the Labour Party at this stage will be voting in favour of sending this bill to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e95201358fd74080abb62ad8def16dd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e95201358fd74080abb62ad8def16dd4\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I\u2019m rising to speak, on behalf of the Green Party, on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u20132025, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ENow, just referring to the Minister\u2019s speech, there were a number of things he said that I agree with in terms of it being incredibly important that we have a tax system that\u2019s fit for the 21st century, that it\u2019s really important that we address the issues facing our country right now, and the difficulty and hardship being faced by so many New Zealanders, particularly all those plunged into unemployment now that the Government has taken a series of steps that has resulted in a lot of job losses and a massive recession, because that\u2019s the reality of what we\u2019re facing right now. Of course, changing the tax thresholds and rates doesn\u2019t benefit anyone who\u2019s lost their job, especially not when the Government is also, in other parts of the system, making it harder to access the social safety net for unemployment by kicking people off benefits and bragging about how they\u2019re kicking people off benefits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe Minister referred, in his speech, to tax relief, almost like a bumper sticker that the Government uses all the time. Government MPs use this term \u201Ctax relief\u201D. I just want to speak to what that is really referring to. It\u2019s a type of framing that is trying to imply that tiny changes to the tax system that give very small benefits to the average New Zealander\u2014like in the order of $2 a week, for many of them, or even less if they\u2019re on low incomes; maybe up to $20 a week if you\u2019re on a high income\u2014are somehow massively improving the life and the wellbeing of people in New Zealand, when, in reality, the cost of these sorts of tax changes is enormous in terms of pressure on our incredibly important public services. The Green Party cannot agree with the tax changes, obviously, that we voted against in the Budget\u2014that were signalled in the Budget\u2014some of which are legislatively brought into by this bill, but this is like an administrative process, as the previous speaker referred to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe reality is, we do need a tax system for the 20th century. We need a tax system that ensures that the wealthiest New Zealanders are paying their fair share, that everyone in New Zealand has access to a decent, livable income, and that we have the revenue we need as a country to pool together our resources to invest in the infrastructure and social services that benefit all New Zealanders. The reality is that we can\u2019t, as individuals, pay for certain things. That\u2019s why we have Government. That\u2019s how we work together to pay for things that we can\u2019t buy on our own, and we are all in this together. I know that goes against the dominant ideology of the 1980s and 1990s, which many of these members currently in the Government are totally stuck in\u2014the 1980s and 1990s. We have enough information to know now that letting the rich get richer and accumulate wealth doesn\u2019t make everyone else wealthier. It doesn\u2019t make us richer as a country. It doesn\u2019t lead to economic prosperity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe only have to look to the economic conditions that ordinary New Zealanders are facing right now\u2014increased precarity. In fact, I was at the infrastructure conference Building Nations last night and people in the infrastructure sector, many of whom probably voted for this Government, were suddenly realising what these policies mean\u2014huge amounts of public infrastructure like public housing and other projects put on hold, no longer being invested in, resulting in the construction sector laying off people, massively laying off people. [Interruption] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe members opposite are getting very irate because they know that I\u2019m speaking the truth. It doesn\u2019t match their little version of reality, but that\u2019s OK, because ordinary New\u00A0Zealanders at home know, and they\u2019ve been talking about what an incredible disappointment it is, how the National Party basically, you know, through their campaign implying that people would receive hundreds of dollars a week when the vast majority are barely receiving anything and are having to pay more in terms of higher public transport costs, higher prescription fees, no longer able to access health services, and many, many people out of a job now\u2014and that\u2019s going to continue to have ongoing detrimental consequences for this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why the Green Party is not voting for this bill. We do have a positive story to tell about what New Zealanders could achieve as a country when we leave behind the failed ideology of the 1980s and 1990s, which only benefits the very wealthy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002286db4f85c3f942fdba0423072e0a769f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286db4f85c3f942fdba0423072e0a769f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Just before I call the next speaker, there were a lot\u00A0of calls from one side of the House asking what this has got to do with the bill. It does\u00A0say Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201325, Emergency Response, Remedial Measures) Bill. It\u2019s very broad\u2014generally broader at a first reading because it hasn\u2019t been through select committee. I did hear a lot about the annual rates of tax, so I deem that to be in scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d277544d95204656924241945f2efc39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d277544d95204656924241945f2efc39\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you for that clarification, because I\u2019m actually going to make a few comments in response to our friend from the Greens as we discuss the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201325, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m happy to stand here on behalf of ACT. Obviously, we will be supporting this to select committee. While the Hon Deborah Russell is correct that this constitutionally locks in the tax relief that we have delivered to New Zealanders, I do want to talk about that briefly, because what this Government has done, this side of the House, is actually deliver tax relief for New Zealanders after a number of years of not having more money in their pockets. That is what we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EIn parallel to that\u2014and this is really what I want to say to my colleague Julie Anne Genter\u2014what we\u2019re actually doing is also interrogating Government spending, making sure that every dollar that this Government spends is actually worthwhile so you actually can ensure that public services are being delivered and that the tax money that a bill like this is collecting is actually being done effectively. So, yes, we do have a totally different view of the world, where we think the Government actually can be responsible, not increase spending\u2014some 80 percent, actually, we saw, increase in spending with no increase in services actually delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI am pleased that we will be supporting this bill to the select committee, where it will get a rigorous going over. I\u2019m a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and I know people like the Hon Deborah Russell, who\u2019s got a lot of experience in taxation, will be very thorough in her examination of this bill, and I welcome that. Also, this does make a number of other small changes which will actually be useful, as the Minister of Revenue outlined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003EI also quite like, on the explanatory note\u2014it says that some of the proposals are \u201Caimed at improving [the] current settings within a broad-base, low-rate framework. This framework helps \u2026 ensure the tax system is fair and efficient\u201D and, really, is trying to not impede economic growth. Obviously, in ACT, we would like a much lower, flatter tax rate, but we\u2019re happy to work within the Government to try and deliver that over time, because, obviously\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ec6087560a43c5a121468f49901094\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Under your leadership\u2014under your leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b2672720-3dfe-421a-af8c-20f00d44da3d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ec2fb0beba148e3b2cc44c284f70446\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: Ha! Thank you, Mr Brewer. But, you know, we are very happy to support this bill, and we will continue to work constructively as we actually work towards a lower, simpler tax system for New Zealand. So, with that, I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u002234711409894744af905815ffbc043a79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234711409894744af905815ffbc043a79\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, I rise for New Zealand First to support this bill. Actually, it was an interesting read. A lot of people might see it as a dry read, but I thought it was actually quite interesting, and also to see how it fits into the\u2014[Interruption] The Minister\u2019s feeling offended, but it was also very interesting to reflect both on the Minister\u2019s speech and the Hon Deborah Russell\u2019s speech just on where this fits in the legislative framework but also the tax framework in terms of legitimising the tax regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EBasically, it\u2019s a regular housekeeping bill. As an omnibus bill, it amends some 10 Acts. There\u2019s actually a lot in there, and the first part of that is it embeds the tax rates for the 2024-2025 tax year. We had the Hon Julie Anne Genter complaining about those tax rates and saying, \u201CIt\u2019s only $2. It\u2019s only $20.\u201D\u2014whatever it might be\u2014\u201CThose things matter.\u201D, and talking about the incredible pressure on public services, but I\u2019d like you to look later on in the bill. There\u2019s some reference to the exempt employee share schemes. What\u2019s done there is that not only is this a scheme that supports startups\u2014it incentivises employees and says to employees they\u2019re part of it and it gives a sense of ownership in those start-ups\u2014it also changes the dollar numbers there. It says that inflation\u2019s happened since 2018, the last time that those numbers were set in place, and it moves those up. And that\u2019s a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI guess the question I would say is: why don\u2019t we do that every year? Why do we have to legislate on the odd occasion when we get round to it? Why do we legislate to change those numbers? Then you go back to the argument that Julie Anne Genter was having. That is: how long is it since the tax thresholds will move for income tax? It\u2019s not five or six years; it\u2019s 14 years. As a matter of course\u2014as a matter of course\u2014those numbers should have been changed year after year. They should be automatically changed, because otherwise the Government is putting its hand deeper and deeper into people\u2019s pockets, because the amount of money they have got left, the value of that money they\u2019ve got left, goes down and down and down with inflation. I think it\u2019s a very important response to those issues there. Of course, on this side of the House, we\u2019re saying to people they should be rewarded for their hard work, not the Government be rewarded for the hard work of other people all the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe second thing I wanted to mention is that also this bill gives us a much better way of responding to emergencies. Of course, during an emergency, if you are under pressure\u2014and I look at Catherine Wedd over there, at the areas that were affected by the cyclone damage\u2014if you\u2019re under pressure or your business is under pressure, the last thing you want to do is say, \u201CWell, I\u2019m not quite sure where I\u2019m going to be at. I\u2019ve got to wait for the Government to pass some legislation to give me some certainty that maybe I\u2019m not going to be in quite as dire a situation from the tax system on top of the damage being done by the weather or by the earthquake or whatever it might be.\u201D This gives the ability for Orders in Council to be able to respond to those kind of emergencies, and that makes absolute sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s good to hear the Hon Dr Deborah Russell also saying that work was being done by the last Government. It kind of makes sense because we\u2019ve had a rather large number of very large emergencies over the last, what, 15 years or so since the Canterbury earthquakes. That\u2019s a very common-sense response, as most of this bill\u2014or all of this bill\u2014is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThe other thing I wanted just to mention is just the response to the Crypto-asset Reporting Framework, which is an international framework, as the Minister said. The idea here is it just simply brings us in line with all of our OECD partners before this regime is to be brought into place, which is going to be in 2026-27. That is a very sensible move, and this is just reflective of this bill as a whole, a sensible common-sense bill. It might be a bit dry. There\u2019ll be a lot of work to be done in looking through this. I think the other thing to say is there\u2019ll be some real benefit in going through the process with submitters who know things about tax and those sorts of issues that will provide a lot of value, I\u2019m sure, to the process. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u002215351aa0d80746fca6113d917b2c2c00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215351aa0d80746fca6113d917b2c2c00\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s always good to talk about tax, particularly when you\u2019re not, at that moment, contemplating your tax bill. Everyone wants to minimise their taxes and only pay what they need to, but we do need to pay tax. I take the Minister of Revenue\u2019s point about recognising the very important role that Inland Revenue play in New Zealand. This bill is an attempt to make life easier for New Zealanders to meet their tax obligations. That\u2019s a very good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe previous member spoke about the emergency provisions in this for emergency events. I wasn\u2019t here in Parliament in 2011, after the Christchurch earthquake, but then in 2016 I was, when we passed a lot of the legislation that had been passed in 2011 in response to the Canterbury earthquake all over again for that emergency in 2016. It was late-2016, 2017 that that legislation went through. And then, again, we had to react with the Cyclone Gabrielle event. It seems nonsensical to keep doing these over and over again. While we won\u2019t get it right with this framework for every event, we\u2019re giving so much discretion to the Minister, but with good guardrails around that to make sure that it is responsible and meets the need of the moment. It\u2019s really important that we do respond quickly and appropriately. That is a very good piece in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EThe KiwiSaver changes that are going to be made, I think, are fantastic. I\u2019ve had a few complaints about that from constituents both ways\u2014those coming into New Zealand and those trying to transfer out. It is overly complicated and very difficult at a stressful time for people, anyway, to make it much more simple. To have that flat rate of 28 percent, I think, is a fair result. They have to pay something on it, and let\u2019s get it all out there so people know what they\u2019re doing. Goodness knows, we need good, skilled people coming into New Zealand, and we don\u2019t want to discourage that as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI do also want to talk about cryptocurrency. Actually, Madam Speaker, as you\u2019d be aware, I hosted Binance, a crypto-trading platform, in Parliament on Tuesday night. They are very keen to get regulation in this area. While these tax provisions are for entities trading in and platforms providing services into the crypto-area, I think that a misconception about cryptocurrencies is that it\u2019s the place for illegal transactions, and so on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to point out that cryptocurrencies are based on a public ledger. Let\u2019s say that someone did misrepresent their tax return, the Inland Revenue actually can go all the way back to your very first transaction in the public ledger and assess the liability for the tax you should have paid\u2014much easier than it would be otherwise. Cryptocurrency is going to play an important part in the global economy at some point over time. It\u2019s important that we get our legislation right and in a fit and proper state for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003EI look forward to working with Dr Deborah Russell on the Finance and Expenditure Committee on this. Deborah always has very thoughtful contributions to make about tax. I\u2019m very pleased that they are supporting the bill through first reading. I think that\u2019s a great sign of cooperation and collaboration on the other side of the House. I welcome this bill. I look very much forward to the submissions and going through select committee. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022 data-id=\u0022c07e7a92994c411c85e86113cbeedc9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c07e7a92994c411c85e86113cbeedc9d\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to take a very short call on this. My colleague the Hon Dr Deborah Russell has already set out Labour\u2019s position on this. We are supporting this bill to select committee. It is largely an administrative bill. Obviously, the debate has been had around some of the tax rates that are contained in the bill, and that was a debate that happened immediately post-Budget, and clearly we didn\u2019t support those measures. But, in terms of this bill, what we are debating here, there\u2019s a largely administrative set of measures that have been through a tax policy consultation process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EI do want to pick up on one of those measures and one of the things that we are very keen to see progress on. The speaker who\u2019s just taken his seat, Stuart Smith, referred to some of this in his contribution, and that is work that Labour started when in Government around having that off-the-shelf set of tax measures that we put in place post-disaster. We had seen a series of events after the Canterbury earthquake sequence, then another earthquake, and then a cyclone, that we had to come back for each event and, basically, reinvent the wheel and put in place the kinds of tax measures that would allow businesses to get through a period of time where they simply in many cases weren\u2019t either able to trade or were trading under very diminished circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EWhat are the things that through the tax system, in a package of measures, you can wrap around communities, and in this part the business community, to ensure they can get through? Is it around a deferral of when tax needs to be paid and a whole raft of measures to, basically, smooth the way? I think that us having a more centralised approach to that\u2014something that after an event like this we can just pull off the shelf. Actually, it also then gives businesses some sense that after a disaster they can know what to expect. It\u2019s not a \u201CWill they or won\u2019t they legislate a bespoke set of measures to help my region or to help our area?\u201D What they can do is they can have a sense of what the expectation would be when something really interrupted the ability of a business to trade, and when assistance was needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve indicated, there is much that we need to discuss at select committee, and we look forward to that discussion. There are many things that we need to go over, but on that note, I am happy to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf1b39ce373b4e358eaacd75304129c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf1b39ce373b4e358eaacd75304129c2\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Look, thank you for this opportunity to rise in support of this bill, because on this side of the House we were always about less tax and ensuring that hard-working New Zealanders can keep more of what they earn. Of course, after 14 years, finally we have a Government which will be providing hard-working New Zealanders with tax relief. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThe area of this bill that I\u2019m really interested in talking about, in this short call and contribution that I will make today, is those clauses in relation to emergency responses and providing tax relief really quickly and efficiently in an emergency. Of course, we saw this over a year ago with Cyclone Gabrielle, where my region was absolutely devastated. In a situation where we have a natural disaster like that, it is really important that we get support out quickly and efficiently. We don\u2019t want to have to keep on coming back to the House here to legislate to ensure that we\u2019re getting that relief out. This will ensure that we have tax relief quickly for businesses in an emergency. Of course, whether it is the Christchurch earthquakes or Kaik\u014Dura or Cyclone Gabrielle, I think it is good that we are acting now to ensure that we do have a piece of legislation that can work so that we can act quickly in these situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI commend the Minister of Revenue for his quick moves to ensure that, within just 10\u00A0months, our Government is putting this tax legislation through and ensuring that we do have these mechanisms in place to enable tax relief quickly in an emergency. Well done to the Hon Simon Watts for identifying that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003ESo, without any further ado, I would like to commend this bill to the House, and I look forward to the select committee process where we will be able to deep dive into some of these issues a little further. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad7885a4db9c45c0af3598f210ce60cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad7885a4db9c45c0af3598f210ce60cd\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a short call on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201325, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill. Before I begin my contribution, can I just indulge the House by welcoming to Parliament this afternoon the Avondale College gospel choir and their director, Seumanu Simon Mat\u0101fai. They are here for this weekend\u2019s Big Sing Finale choral competition. It is the first time they have made it to the finale, one of 24 choirs from 250 who entered across Aotearoa, and they have just sung for us in the west gallery. Welcome to Parliament to all of you today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ENow I\u2019ll talk to the bill. Thank you, Madam Speaker, for indulging me briefly. This bill is very important because it does clarify our taxation arrangements for the country as they currently stand. We have noted through a number of speeches today that it is at its first reading and so this will go to select committee. There will be a number of things for the select committee to work through, but as many speakers have noted today, the piece that I am most interested in is that part around emergency response. We in Nelson, where I am the MP, have also had a number of civil defence emergencies in terms of fires, in terms of floods, where people\u2019s lives and livelihoods have been significantly disrupted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOne of the things that occurred during the last Parliament following the cyclones was in the Governance and Administration Committee, which I now have the pleasure of chairing. We did do a lot of emergency legislation. Now, that wasn\u2019t specifically related to tax\u2014not all of it\u2014but one of the things that we have acknowledged in this Parliament, I think, is that every time we have a disaster, we need to do bespoke legislation, whether it be about tax, whether it be about environmental measures or resource management measures. We do need to move to a system where we have legislation that is already sitting there that doesn\u2019t need to go through a select committee process every single time we have an actual disaster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EIn terms of taxation measures, for small businesses, for sole traders, for people who are interacting with the IRD who have tax obligations throughout that time, it can be an incredibly stressful time when your business may have suffered a loss in revenue, your business may have been flooded, your business may have suffered from some other form of loss or disruption\u2014so to have measures in place to ensure that the Government doesn\u2019t add to that stress, essentially. What Government needs to do during that time is support and enable people, organisations, businesses to be able to continue operating and to have as much normalcy in what is a chaotic and stressful time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWe started that work as a Labour Government. It\u2019s really good to see it continue in this bill. I think that the select committee will obviously take a good look at the bill and make the necessary changes. Labour is supporting it at this point to select committee, and I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00227b3bff4105ab4535bb694896afbd787d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b3bff4105ab4535bb694896afbd787d\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my absolute privilege to stand this afternoon and speak to the first reading of the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201325, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003ENot only did we campaign hard to ensure that we were in a position here this afternoon to be able to introduce this legislation to the House, and ensure that after 14 long years New Zealanders get the tax relief that they deserve, as a chartered accountant myself I\u2019m particularly pleased that we are addressing this fundamental issue following the last opportunity we had to provide tax relief to New Zealanders that the Opposition got rid of a couple of years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EThis bill also allows the opportunity for under-16-year-olds to enrol in KiwiSaver with a single guardian\u2019s consent. Now, when I started working at McDonald\u2019s, a few years back, I must say\u2014probably more than it looks like\u2014back then we started when we were 15, and to have started saving at that point would have been of benefit. We need to create the opportunity for more New Zealanders to plan for their future, provide for their superannuation through building their KiwiSaver, building those habits early on, and we support them to do that through this component of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EFinally, I\u2019d just like to note the opportunity the bill provides around emergency response. It was just Friday a week ago in the wonderful Whanganui electorate that I did my civil defence training with Tim Crowe, the local manager in Whanganui, just looking at how we respond in those emergency moments. This bill supports part of that activity that we as a country need to have as part of our legislative arrangements, to ensure we can respond effectively in emergencies. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00225531937be50b484bb07a2863ff0563da\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201325, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New\u00A0Zealand\u00A0First\u00A08.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 14\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 13; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000350\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u00228614b8609d4e4c7aa5f921784fae1526\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228614b8609d4e4c7aa5f921784fae1526\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. They clearly said 13 votes, and we\u2019re sort of going, \u201CWell, why 14?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e12a32bb2f344d38ee8957d5d524644\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Fourteen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213fce112f1e4492b93c18e1de9d8f05b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Darleen Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210ba398857ac4a65ad4987fe3b5c9e99\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: She said 13.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aac2cc6fd3504edab8e152fbd097c87e\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously 13 plus one is 14, mate. Come on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262aa65fabb244b819888165ad4bb13c9\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, it\u2019s actually 14 plus one, which is 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211a71e13ef2a49cb83a8fc799bfd3dad\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m satisfied that the voting has been counted. If the member has any other concerns, we\u2019ll have a look at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227285fb39796f450dbfd0cb972781ba49\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I just think you should check the Hansard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022101e0b4a1eed4ccc99412250501cd2d6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022978288b0b8c9434aa2adcfec8a0e011e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022978288b0b8c9434aa2adcfec8a0e011e\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I just wanted to clarify that I do think the member voted 13 twice, so I just wonder if there\u2019s reason they\u2019re voting 13\u2014that it\u2019s not a mistake, that\u2019s maybe what she wants recorded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225895ea0d30ac484fa5962d3bee86afe1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s up to the Green Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e6e1a59daac4a1eb6fc1781e24ae790\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE\u003C/span\u003E: But that\u2019s what they said, but you\u2019ve recorded 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00224d9444ce013b4cde84e29d3803cce36b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d9444ce013b4cde84e29d3803cce36b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014the Green Party voted 13, and Darleen Tana voted; that\u2019s where the 14 comes from. OK, so the Clerk has announced\u2014[Interruption] OK; silence please! The Clerk has announced the bill\u2019s first reading, so the question now is that the\u2014[Interruption] Quiet, please!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is, That The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024\u201325, Emergency Response, and Remedial Measures) Bill be considered by the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222abdfe8b063d45859efb63f52051ac4a\u0022\u003EVictims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221898638f29444189ae51404027548123\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000369\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 28 August.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00228b794e76cad04d0fb0fb33a066e35899\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b794e76cad04d0fb0fb33a066e35899\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I follow on from our previous speaker, Kahurangi Carter, in speaking to the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill. Firstly, I would like to echo what the previous speakers have said already, which is our gratitude towards both the Hon Ginny Andersen for bringing this bill to the House and then the Hon Paul Goldsmith for carrying this bill on, as well as for the fact that we have support from all parties on this particular bill. This bill is incredibly important because it allows us to make further improvements to our court system, where victims of family violence are being further abused, or are further experiencing trauma as a result of everything they have already been going through, in what the commentary on this bill has mentioned as being litigant abuse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn terms of this particular bill, there are a number of areas that we wanted to highlight in terms of the fact that it does allow judges to provide this order in order to prevent such litigant abuse that may be used, and there are some measures being put in place if a judge is satisfied that it\u2019s not going to be done in a way that is going to cause the victims further trauma. There are, obviously, some concerns around this, particularly when it comes to the fact that this may allow for more unrecorded incidents of family violence and domestic and sexual violence. I think this is somewhere that we need to be quite vigilant and keep monitoring, and to also keep supporting and keep raising awareness and be proactive in our approaches in preventing such domestic and sexual violence\u2014approaches undertaken by both the previous Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence as well as the present Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe other couple of areas I wanted to highlight as well are that in this particular case, what is really important in this bill is that it will help victims to regain trust in our court system, knowing that the court system is sympathetic, and it is also really, really important that we do take a very victim-centred approach when we are looking at victims of family violence. One of the things that I would like to see is this, and this is carrying on from other bills that we have been speaking on in the House as well, particularly when it comes to the Courts (Remote Participation) Amendment Bill. I think that the whole idea here is that we want to make our court system and our justice system one that is approachable and that is welcoming. So I would also like to see things further improve in the context of what has been released in the Turuki! Turuki! report, particularly around having access to something like a Wh\u0101nau Ora navigator, which may be able to help victims of family violence to also navigate the court system in a way that means that they are able to go through that process with dignity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think that this bill is pretty straightforward and it has got everyone\u2019s support. The Green Party supports this bill, and we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1e899afa8e542ea8a20b2089697358b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1e899afa8e542ea8a20b2089697358b\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It seems like just yesterday we were debating this bill, so it\u2019s a great pleasure to be back up and continuing the cross-party support fest that we\u2019re having this afternoon, because we have another bill which has been well received by the House and well supported across the House. So it is a real pleasure to be able to speak to this particular bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThis is, of course, one of the many bills that\u2019s come through the Justice Committee, and I wanted to thank the members of the Justice Committee\u2014the busy and effective Justice Committee\u2014for their ongoing collegiality and hard work as they work through these bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting because we had, actually, a number of bills in this space. As the previous speakers mentioned, the bill was actually brought to the previous Parliament just before it dissolved last term on 29 August and has made its way through to this Parliament\u2014so it\u2019s been picked up by Paul Goldsmith. One of the things I wanted to point to was, throughout the debate on this bill, it\u2019s one of a few family violence and sexual violence bills that we have considered as a committee and it became known as the \u201CLitigant Abuse Bill\u201D because of the title. We had very similar titles. We had the Family Proceedings (Dissolution for Family Violence) Amendment Bill, we had the Victims of Sexual Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill, and then we had this bill. And because of some of the confusion around which particular bill we were addressing, this bill became known as the \u201CLitigation Abuse Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s important, because one of the changes that the select committee actually made throughout the process was to change one of the terms in the bill from preventing \u201Cabuse of the court\u201D to what it is actually intended to do, and that is preventing abuse of individuals, harassment of others through litigation and through use of the court\u2019s processes. And that\u2019s the real intent of the bill: to protect victims of family violence and to protect individuals from harassment, from intimidation, and from annoyance from estranged spouses or former partners or other family members by using and abusing the processes of the court. That\u2019s the key part or the key purpose of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe other thing that this bill does is it makes a couple of further changes. The bill originally removed a provision around vexatious litigation. We decided to actually make sure that that term wasn\u2019t removed from other pieces of legislation because it\u2019s still important that those processes or that vexatious litigation can be prevented. This particular piece of legislation won\u2019t prevent that because that\u2019s the instance when you are, maybe, a self-represented litigant or you are repeatedly processing applications on your own behalf and you become vexatious, not necessarily with the intent to abuse or harass others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThere were a number of submitters who thought the bill didn\u2019t go far enough and who made some very strong and valuable submissions around whether or not we could expand the bill to cover off instances of stalking, because New Zealand doesn\u2019t have a stalking law. It\u2019s interesting because I think that was met with a lot of approval across both sides of the committee, to the point where I\u2019m sure it wouldn\u2019t be out of turn to say that we were considering drafting a member\u2019s bill around stalking. And then, lo and behold, Ginny Andersen beat us\u2014or pipped us at the post, to use a better analogy\u2014before the end of the year. Then, of course, Minister Goldsmith has also indicated that the Government may be interested in picking up a stalking bill as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ESo there is some further good news to come from this particular piece of legislation. It\u2019s been well supported across the House. I look forward to seeing its passage through second reading, through committee of the whole House stage, and through the third reading. With that, I will commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00222bf4a903d77c47e28ec58c94319bcf55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bf4a903d77c47e28ec58c94319bcf55\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Madam Speaker. Look, it\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take what will be a brief call and contribution on this bill. It\u2019s one that we do support because, as the member who\u2019s just resumed his seat indicated, it was one that we introduced because we saw that there was an issue, and this was a way in which this particular issue could be fixed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe fact of the matter is that when we look at the issue of litigation, most people in our community would think and expect that those who are involved in litigation do so with good intent and good intentions, but the reality is that there are some in our community for whom they utilise litigation for other means and other purposes to perhaps not seek justice, which is what this is all about, but to rather try and continue to exert a level of control, harassment, or just being able to continue to have some level of communication or contact with those who in many circumstances, sadly, are their victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EWhat this bill seeks to do in one particular element is it allows the presiding officer of proceedings to actually adopt a fairly broad view when it concerns the issue of an individual\u2019s conduct. Rather than looking at a form of behaviour or conduct in isolation, this bill will empower those judicial officers who are making decisions to actually step back if they need to and to look at a broader range. If there are sustained patterns of behaviour, that would give them rise to take a particular course of action, rather than looking at just the one issue of behaviour in isolation, on its own merits. This bill will amend a number of pieces of legislation that relate to courts within the hierarchy of courts, really, in New Zealand to achieve that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also important that the bill, as I understand it, introduces a new section 12B into the Family Court Act. We\u2019re looking at Family Court judges who, let\u2019s face it, often deal with circumstances and cases that are extremely difficult, that relate to familial relations, whether those are wanted or unwanted, in some circumstances. This will give the Family Court judge presiding over a matter the authority to, basically, call a halt or a stop to proceedings if they think that a party to proceedings is actually using that process as a way of abusing the system. Those are just two examples, but it is great to see that this is well supported across the House. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u002212d3da3d2ed24adb9876ad8f20b2ad16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212d3da3d2ed24adb9876ad8f20b2ad16\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you. I too would like to share my support for this bill, the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill. We\u2019re in the second reading, and I tautoko what my colleagues around the House have been expressing about this bill. I\u2019d like to turn our attention to the key themes that emerged from the submissions during the Justice Committee stage. These five things were that litigation abuse is indeed an issue, access to justice needs to be maintained for both parties, children\u2019s welfare and best interests need to be considered, there are concerns that measures could harm victims, and systematic change is needed to enhance the protections the bill offers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EHere, I\u2019d like to just highlight one of the submissions, by Backbone Collective. They submitted that in their 2017 Family Court survey, involving 496 victims/survivors who had been involved in Family Court proceedings, 50 percent said that they experienced litigation abuse. This amendment bill is absolutely needed, and, indeed, with our victim-centric approach, this will help make sure that victims are put at the forefront when it comes to addressing their needs and their concerns. It\u2019s to strengthen the court\u2019s ability to respond to litigation abuse. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u002267769ba594e2467bae68666318dc373a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267769ba594e2467bae68666318dc373a\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s great to have so much cross-party support for this important piece of legislation. It\u2019s excellent to see the survivors of family violence being supported in this way. I have to say, as mental health Opposition spokesperson, it would be better to see more support for the mental health elements that concern family violence, and particularly with the links to suicide. Doing this one tweak, while it\u2019s good, is not going to solve some of the problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard a lot about what the bill does, but I think it\u2019s timely, in a way, just to be aware of some of the statistics which link family violence through to suicide that have come out from Women\u2019s Refuge. This is important because it shows how important it is to have a bill like this that supports survivors of violence. Each year, more women die of suicide than of homicide. Suicide after family violence is one of the leading causes of death in New Zealand, and about half of women accessing mental health services have experienced current or recent family violence, according to Women\u2019s Refuge. So I would like to acknowledge the 47,000 people who die globally each year from family violence, the nine women and the two men on average that die each year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI say this because we need to strengthen all areas that can support the wellbeing, including the mental wellbeing of families, so that they are not made more vulnerable. This goes one step, but we need to see far more support because what we have seen from this Government is the pulling apart of the Suicide Prevention Office. We\u2019ve seen gaps in responses to 111 calls, which often emanate from family violence situations where we don\u2019t know who\u2019s going to be there to pick up the pieces. Will it be the police or others? We\u2019ve seen no workforce plan yet in the mental health sector, and we have a Minister that doesn\u2019t know what his budget is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ESo, great to have the piece of legislation. I look forward to this Government looking at the totality of the links between family violence, suicide, and mental health so that we can get some real progress in this area. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u00221ff5eeff5a7a421a9957e38ac2e44667\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ff5eeff5a7a421a9957e38ac2e44667\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s with great pleasure that I stand here in support of the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill. This reflects our victim-centric approach from this Government that has somehow stretched out and won support across the aisle. I am very pleased that here on the last day of our sitting this winter that, again, we have got support across the House. It also shows people listening to \u201Ctruth radio\u201D or watching Parliament TV, they can see just how much we as a Government are focused on not just a victim-centric approach but on law and order and on cracking down on law and order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EIt gives me great pleasure to support this bill. This bill will, of course, make amendments that strengthen the court\u2019s ability to identify and to respond to instances where an individual attempts to use court systems and family proceedings to harass, annoy, harm, or psychologically abuse people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThere were not a lot of submissions, but in the submissions that we got there were some key themes that I just want to touch on. Submitters said that litigation abuse is a frequently occurring family violence issue. There are a number of comments relating to justice rights. Approximately a quarter of submitters raised concerns about the bill\u2019s impact on children. Submitters also expressed concern that the provision could harm victims, and submitters also highlighted the need for systemic change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EThe Justice Committee recommended refinements to the bill to ensure the new provision better recognises the impact of litigation abuse on victims. In response to submitters\u2019 concerns, the revised bill now focuses on the harm to the targeted party rather than focusing on this behaviour being in the abuse of the court\u2019s process, and uses wording to further signal the serious nature of litigation abuse, while still ensuring protections and access to victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003ETo wind up, the bill will make amendments that will strengthen the court\u2019s ability to identify and respond to instances where an individual\u2019s attempt to use the court system in family proceedings to harass, annoy, harm, or psychologically abuse people is limited and victims are protected. I finish as I began: the focus of our approach as a Government is not on defending the offender or protecting the offender but protecting the victim. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022678ad2714e204868856d768230693356\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022678ad2714e204868856d768230693356\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a real pleasure to speak on the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill, a bill introduced by the Labour Party in the last Government. It\u2019s no surprise to the last speaker, Cameron Brewer, I hope, that the Labour Party is supporting this bill. He makes it sound like we\u2019ve suddenly come to our senses, when, in fact, of course, this cracking good idea came from the Labour Government and also from the advocacy and knowledge of Dr Emily Henderson, a Labour MP in the last Parliament. I want to recognise the work that she did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe overall scheme of the bill has been well traversed. Can I just thank the people who did come to the Justice Committee to submit, both those experts, the advocates, and also those who had real, personal experience of litigation abuse. I think it\u2019s one of the real conundrums of the court system that we hold very dear this almost ancient concept of free access to the courts and the idea that any person can come to the courts to air their grievances and seek redress. But, in throwing the doors of the court wide open, that right, that entitlement, can be abused. Whilst, in some contexts, it\u2019s perhaps not too harmful\u2014in commercial law, perhaps even in the law of political questions that the courts might be considering, we can put those vexatious claims to one side. But when we\u2019ve got people who are vulnerable\u2014they\u2019re not necessarily victims here in the sense of criminal law, and I was a bit perplexed by the last speaker\u2019s constant reference to victims. These are disputants, largely, to family proceedings. Yet, it is the case that those proceedings can be used to harass, annoy\u2014and, as we noted in committee, that doesn\u2019t really pitch it high enough. I can assure you that legal proceedings are annoying at any time, but the concept of abuse, of that harassment and annoyance reaching a level where it is intended to cause actual harm, psychological harm, to the other party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI just want to touch on one other thing, and that is actually quite an important point that hasn\u2019t really been focused on. Traditionally, vexatious litigants have been seen as abusing the process of the court, and the kind of party that is wronged has generally been considered the court or even the justice system, or whatever. On reflection, that\u2019s not really appropriate in the modern world, because the real person who is harmed is the litigant who is being harassed. That\u2019s why the language was changed away from it being an abuse of the procedure of the court, or an abuse of the court, to being an abuse of the other party to the litigation. I think that\u2019s a really significant and important shift. It\u2019s actually a shift of the philosophy underpinning this kind of vexatious litigant or abusive litigant problem. Now, the question isn\u2019t, \u201CHow is the court harmed?\u201D or \u201CHow is the administration of justice harmed?\u201D At least in respect of this piece of legislation, the question is, \u201CWhat is the degree of harm being caused to the other party to the litigation, and does it reach an appropriate threshold?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook, it\u2019s worth noting that it has to be significant; it has to be more than just annoying, because the consequence is a very significant limitation on the right to go to court and ask for a remedy and to raise concerns of breach of rights or law. I think we\u2019ve struck the right balance, and obviously, from here, this bill will be discussed further and may be subject to further improvement. It is good that this is a bill which has crossed Parliaments, crossed parties, and is still being supported around the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ESo, with that, I\u2019ve identified those matters I did want to highlight. Once again, thanks to Emily Henderson for the work that she did, and I think she should recognise this as a legacy that she left the last Parliament and this Parliament. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u00226d4435d3132a466b9d877abda046b0da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d4435d3132a466b9d877abda046b0da\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to take the final call on the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003ELast Friday, I had the privilege of having the Minister of Police and Corrections in Whanganui, and it makes me reflect on the victims that are going to experience the new justice hub, Te Puna Hapori, in Whanganui that\u2019s currently being constructed. As this bill navigates its way through the House, I\u2019m looking forward to the opportunity that victims who present at that new court space, as it\u2019s built, are going to be able to feel like they are the centre of focus, because we are bringing in legislation that is focused on victims. I really like the language that my colleague and great MP Rima Nakhle spoke about before, when she said that this is a victim-centric bill. I think, as we take this through the House, it\u2019s really important to remember that victims are at the focus of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EThe bill strengthens the courts\u2019 ability to respond by removing individuals\u2019 attempts to use the courts to harass, to annoy, to harm, and to psychologically abuse others. You know, New Zealand is not the United States; we\u2019re not a litigious nation. We shouldn\u2019t put victims in a space of feeling like the law can be used against them\u2014that they can end up, ultimately, feeling like they\u2019re in the United States because there\u2019s this litigious focus that they can get caught in, in court proceedings that are only designed to batter and wear them down. This bill addresses that challenge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EGiven the second reading of this bill has been broken over two days, I thought that it would be valuable as part of the conclusion of the speeches in the second reading to reference back to Minister Goldsmith yesterday, who talked about the purpose of this bill. It is about ensuring that we don\u2019t have the misuse of court proceedings, particularly when it is about disturbing or is intended to hurt victims. The purpose of this bill is to, as I said, strengthen the court\u2019s ability to respond to litigation abuse, and the Minister spoke yesterday about that. It gives the courts a tool to protect victims from litigation abuse. It focuses on the harm to the targeted party rather than the behaviour, and this, I think, is a key distinction of the legislation. It shows the focus that we have on the victim\u2014the target of the harm, if you like\u2014rather than on the\u00A0behaviour. It\u2019s intended to capture, and I quote, \u201Ca pattern of behaviour that leads to litigation abuse\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EThis has been through select committee, as we know\u2014the hard-working Justice Committee, which I have the opportunity to serve on a regular basis as a sub-in. There were two key changes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6bd4538b60d46778197459d0988d8b0\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Honorary member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022101c57f1e56b46979df85b5c811e18e8\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: An honorary member\u2014my fellow colleague here, Cameron Brewer, says\u2014of the Justice Committee. I always look forward to my opportunity to participate, because they are engaged in ensuring that the best legislation is presented to this House, and I just want to acknowledge the chair of the Justice Committee who\u2019s led that, James Meager, member of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EThe two key changes that came through that process were, firstly, to better recognise the impact of litigation on the abuse victim. Now, that was a key change that came through the opportunities that they had through the submissions that were provided to the select committee, when they weren\u2019t interrupted\u2014the select committee submissions. And then, secondly, to focus on harm to the targeted party\u2014and that required just some changes in the wording to ensure that that was clear and articulated well. The bill would focus, as we said, on the victim\u2019s rights and prevent the repeated\u2014and I think that\u2019s key to this bill: the repeated target of threats, assaults, and serious physical violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EI haven\u2019t been in the position that I\u2019ve had to worry about this situation. Just reading the bill, reading the submissions, reading the notes that have come with this, I would hate to be in the position of one of those victims who is the target. That\u2019s a pretty strong word in the context of this legislation\u2014the target of threats, abuse, and serious physical violence. I think that we need to fix that. While I acknowledge that the Opposition brought this bill into the House prior to the last election, like many things, it is this Government that is delivering and getting it done. This is, as my colleague Cameron Brewer said, a new dawn as we come through the end of the winter session of this House\u2014a new dawn for victims so that we can ensure they no longer have to feel like the target of this abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EFinally, if I can just acknowledge once again the hard work of the Justice Committee, thank them for getting this to the House, and just say that I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224ae6a6cf3ebc4d61bf03a21912d0f26f\u0022\u003EFirearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fdeb39751667416f885d0fe6cae688ac\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022973c48ede17042a18dbd356e372c5432\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022973c48ede17042a18dbd356e372c5432\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to present a legislative statement on the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226469279400114a0087a4449da8b073f2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is none. That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022831d0e1937574767bdc2c243dbb11398\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI am pleased to bring this bill to its third reading. Today marks yet another important milestone in this Government\u2019s ongoing commitment to reducing violent crime and restoring law and order. This bill is the first phase of my work programme to reform New Zealand\u2019s outdated firearms law with the priority of keeping our community safe from the threat of illegally held firearms in the hands of gangs and other violent offenders. The bill was developed as part of the Government\u2019s 100-day plan and gives police the tools that they need to keep firearms out of the hands of gangs and other high-risk offenders. It progresses the Government\u2019s commitment to reduce violent crime, restore law and order, and keep our communities safe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ETo recap for the House, firearms prohibition orders\u2014or FPOs\u2014are orders made by the court when offenders have committed serious violent offences. They are not granted lightly and, therefore, are in force for 10 years, prohibiting offenders from holding a firearms licence and from accessing firearms or even being around them. Breaching the conditions of an FPO is a criminal offence, and orders that willingly breach them can be liable for up to seven years in prison. This imprisonment term reflects how seriously we as a Government are taking the threat of violence with firearms in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe FPO regime has been in place since 2022 and this bill strengthens the existing regime. It provides police with a practical tool to enforce compliance, and it sends a strong message that the buck stops here because this Government is committed to addressing violent crime. This bill makes three key improvements to the existing FPO regime. First, the bill expands the qualifying criteria, which allows the court to make an FPO, with this expansion focused on targeting gang members who offend with illegally held firearms. It does this by specifying additional offences that mean a member or associate of a gang, if convicted, can be issued with an FPO. These offences are gang-related offences in the Crimes Act 1961, the Arms Act 1983, the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, and the Psychoactive Substances Act 2013. These are offences like assault, robbery, illicit drug manufacture, unlawful possession of a firearm, and illegal supply of prohibited firearms. This change responds to concerns from the public about the risks posed by gang members and gang associates using firearms to inflict violence and intimidate New Zealand\u2019s communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESecondly, the bill establishes a process by which an FPO may be varied, modified, or revoked. An individual is subject to an FPO for a considerable length of time, but we recognise that within this time these circumstances may change, and people can genuinely rehabilitate. If they achieve this, they may no longer pose a risk to public safety. To address this, the bill\u2019s changes mean anybody with an FPO will be able to request the court to vary or revoke that FPO. They will be eligible to do this at the mid-point of the FPO, which is after five years have passed. Before varying a condition, the court must be satisfied the condition is no longer necessary to prevent the person from accessing, possessing, or using any firearms. Before revoking an FPO, the court must be satisfied that the FPO is no longer necessary, reasonable, and appropriate to assist in managing risks to public safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThirdly, the bill gives police a new search power to monitor compliance with an FPO. Currently, police do not have any specific search powers for monitoring an individual\u2019s compliance with an FPO. Police rely on general search powers associated with firearms set out in the Search and Surveillance Act 2012. The officer must suspect an offence involving a firearm has occurred. The bill amends the Search and Surveillance Act, giving police the ability to search to monitor compliance with an FPO. The officer must have reasonable grounds to believe that a person is subject to an FPO, and the search must only be conducted for the purpose of checking whether the person is complying with the conditions of that FPO, not to locate evidence of other offending. Misuse of this power, such as searching for an ulterior purpose, or excessively, or at unreasonable times could be found to be unreasonable under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. This bespoke search power means police can proactively monitor compliance with FPOs to ensure those individuals who have been deemed a risk to public safety are not accessing firearms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill comes into effect six months after it is passed, providing time to prepare guidance for police officers and court staff and to make necessary IT system changes. Together, the changes in the bill address the unacceptable levels of gang-related violence, public intimidation, and crimes involving firearms that have outraged New Zealanders. The changes keep firearms out of the hands of criminals, thereby reducing violent crime and ultimately restoring safety in our communities for the benefit of all New Zealanders. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI want to again thank the Justice Committee and this House for their thorough and mindful consideration of the bill, as well as the officials who have worked diligently on this bill. My thanks go to every member of the public who submitted on the bill. Their valuable input has fine-tuned this bill to ensure it best addresses the unacceptable levels of gang-related violence, intimidation and crimes involving firearms that are impacting our communities. By passing this bill, we are keeping our promise to all New Zealanders to restore law and order in this country and make sure criminals are held accountable for their offending. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00225b58e3d5ef3a47cca01fa5801ce0e94b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b58e3d5ef3a47cca01fa5801ce0e94b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is the motion be agreed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022faad50daa75c46699e3ea5f557729c32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022faad50daa75c46699e3ea5f557729c32\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s almost perplexing that we\u2019ve got a Government who\u2019s Minister for firearms, on the one hand, is talking about doing away with a firearms registry, and reintroducing military-style semi-automatic rifles, and then tweaking the firearms prohibition orders\u2014the inconsistency of that does not escape me. We already have firearms prohibition orders. The last Government, the Labour Government, put those in place. We don\u2019t see that this legislation is necessary. Those firearms prohibition orders, which are already set out in the Arms Act, have just been there\u2014we haven\u2019t had long enough to see them bed in. This would be window dressing were it not such an overreach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI mean, this Government, is well used to overreach; they\u2019re getting quite used to it. I mean, in the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill, they slipped in at the last moment a prohibition on having gang patches in secret in your own home. Here, again, we\u2019ve got a bill which has a very significant invasion of the home\u2014and quite unnecessarily, quite gratuitously. I think we need to look very carefully not just at this particular overreach but the fact that this Government is eroding some pretty fundamental rights and doing it in quite invidious ways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve already got firearms protection orders. We want to see how they work; they might need some adjustments. I\u2019ll tell you what they don\u2019t need: they don\u2019t need the kind of far-ranging warrantless search powers that this Government is giving to police. Whilst we accept that police officers, by and large, exercise their duties and responsibilities appropriately\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294d1b0de622643a5957cfadfba16dd1f\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Do you want the gangs to have more guns?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e361c526ef14e23982a1e0cf940fc26\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014we know that there will be instances where there is overreach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdafb93196e54431bec69b8dc3eec261\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s what you\u2019ll be doing with semi-automatics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be265a6a78eb4ebc89d58bebfe7b2ecd\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: If you look\u2014and you\u2019re right, Priyanca Radhakrishnan; there they are, chipping away whilst they\u2019re talking about reintroducing semi-automatic rifles. It\u2019s an absolute outrage that flies in the face of the harm to some of our most vulnerable communities\u2014it\u2019s deeply, deeply offensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIf we do look at the warrantless search power in new section 18AA, inserted by clause\u00A014, the breadth of that search power simply makes no sense. The first thing to say is this, as the Associate Minister of Justice herself identified in the House\u2014I think it was yesterday\u2014there is already a right of a constable to enter someone\u2019s home under the Arms Act to check compliance with the Arms Act. Now, that search power\u2014and the\u00A0Minister\u2019s there; she knows the Arms Act. She was a gun lobbyist, so she knows it pretty well. If you look at that search power, it talks about entry at a reasonable time. Now, a warrantless search doesn\u2019t talk about entry at a reasonable time. In fact, the very reason it\u2019s warrantless is so that they can catch people off guard\u2014these are people\u2019s homes, right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, the suggestion is that this is not a punitive power\u2014the suggestion is that it\u2019s protective of the public, but it\u2019s hard to say that it\u2019s not a little bit punitive when your house is busted into at 3 o\u2019clock in the morning. Let\u2019s not pretend that won\u2019t happen, because if the police were going to have a look around\u2014here\u2019s the other thing, the trigger isn\u2019t that they think there is a breach. They don\u2019t have to even think there\u2019s a breach of the firearms protection order, the wording is there in subsection (1): it\u2019s \u201Cfor the purpose of checking\u201D. Just checking up. \u201CGidday. Oh, 3 a.m.? Sorry about that. Just want to check whether you\u2019ve got a firearm around.\u201D There doesn\u2019t have to be any wrongdoing whatsoever. How many times can they do that? As often as they like. Sure, they\u2019re not supposed to go in there and check whether there\u2019s illicit drugs or whether there\u2019s stolen property or whether any other criminal activity is going on, but when you have an absolutely unfettered right to pop in for a check at any time of the day or night, that is a recipe for overreach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOur law assists that because of section 30 of the Evidence Act. Section 30 of the Evidence Act provides that if evidence is found as a result of an illegal search, then if it\u2019s useful enough you\u2019re still allowed to use it. Now, that\u2019s problematic when you\u2019ve got an ability to pop into someone\u2019s house at any time just to have a look around, as long as they\u2019ve got a firearms protection order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course, the other thing is the scope of this power isn\u2019t limited only to people\u2019s homes; it can be other places where the person is present. So be careful who you invite over\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c450199fcdd7495bb3d6a244efaba34f\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the point!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224230bbb73b8f4d039d4804996cc96ae5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because if they\u2019ve got a firearms protection order, your house\u2014no, I know you wouldn\u2019t invite a gang member or a person with a firearm; they wouldn\u2019t go either. The fact of the matter is that, if there\u2019s a firearms protection order in place, the police can enter any premises at any time to check\u2014not because they think offences are being committed, but just to have a check-up. That is highly invasive. What\u2019s more: not just the part of the premises where the person is in control or is present, but any part of the premises. That third party\u2019s home can be searched from top to bottom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c5f6f8580644e13965f8ae1ce2fae7c\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Gang pad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227013ba944400435a9bf699defee3e039\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: No, not a gang member. It can be the gang member\u2019s mum\u2014and that\u2019s the kind of thing we\u2019ve got to think about: that these are other people\u2019s homes. I\u2019m sorry if you think that gang members\u2019 mums need to be turned over by the police, but I don\u2019t. I think that people should be free from unreasonable search and seizure. This is an extension\u2014such an overreach that it is an unreasonable search and seizure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course, then we\u2019ve got vehicles that can be stopped\u2014vehicles, again, for no purpose other than having a check. There has to be no suspicion that there\u2019s a breach in a firearm protection order. Just see that person driving past. \u201COh, yeah, we don\u2019t particularly like that person. Let\u2019s let them know we\u2019ve got our eye on him. Stop them, get all the kids out of the car, get the groceries out of the car, give it a good working over.\u201D That is a recipe for police overreach, so we need to be very, very cautious in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOf course, this is the other thing that really is the icing on the cake, and that is that even if the person doesn\u2019t have a firearm protection order on them, as long as the officer reasonably believes they do\u2014they don\u2019t have to be sure\u2014the search is legal; even if they reasonably believe. They don\u2019t have to check it; they just have to have a reasonable belief that that\u2019s the case. That\u2019s not good enough. If someone is searched and they don\u2019t have a firearm protection order on them, it should be an illegal search. There should be no authority to search that person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis bill is one of many\u2014the Minister in her speech made it clear that there\u2019s a raft of legislation coming around firearms. We\u2019ve seen a raft of legislation around other areas, and every time the New Zealand Bill of Rights\u2014the ability to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, the freedom of association, the freedom of expression\u2014is eroded.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOn the other side of the House, they say, \u201CDon\u2019t worry, it\u2019s just gang members.\u201D You know what? That\u2019s where it starts. If we don\u2019t strike the right balance in respect of all members of our community, then ever so slowly the rights of all members of the community are eroded. It\u2019s an unnecessary bill, it\u2019s a bill that\u2019s overreach, it\u2019s a bill which won\u2019t work, and it\u2019s a bill which simply is window dressing in respect of firearms protection orders already in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002285c9f64653484eb0aea76f8ebfee7dfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285c9f64653484eb0aea76f8ebfee7dfc\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Following on from what the Hon Dr Duncan Webb has mentioned, I would like to speak, too, on this particular bill, in the third reading. Now, first of all, I think when we were having the committee stage for this, it was one of the more unconventional experiences I\u2019ve had when it comes to committee stage, and it was very interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fa8ebcc29eb49d69f06635239fe5761\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: What? It was a great time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287485e148e0f4d18a3a783b3354a2057\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: It was a great time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235203f9acc2745258420f1de224298bc\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: He didn\u2019t say it was bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265a5f2285bab4f5393430721a6989d29\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t say it was bad. But, in terms of the broader context of this, I think while we really appreciate what the Justice Committee has done here\u2014as well as the way that the Minister at the committee stage answered the questions\u2014there are a lot of concerns with this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ETo provide a little bit of background/context, when the Labour Government introduced FPOs\u2014the firearms prohibition orders\u2014FPOs in general are a good thing. This is something that the Green Party agrees with. However, things that are in this bill are already prevalent and already exist within the current legislation, particularly when it comes to a high-risk person and their access to firearms. What we\u2019re seeing here by extending it and, essentially, only targeting gangs is nothing short of virtue signalling, as we have seen from this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe Hon Dr Duncan Webb has, before, mentioned a crucial element of this bill, which is around the introduction of clause 14, particularly when it comes to warrantless searches, new section 18AA under the Search and Surveillance Act. This is a really concerning bit, because although, rightfully, there\u2019s been amendments and adjustments, firstly, when it comes to new section 18AA, it states, \u201CIf a constable has reasonable grounds to believe\u201D\u2014and, yes, from the Attorney-General\u2019s perspective, this does satisfy some of the requirements around the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. However, one of the things here is: who then judges in terms of what is considered reasonable grounds? We have seen in reports lately of the systemic bias that our police force have towards members of certain communities. That is in the report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOver here, when we see something like this and when any constable is able to act within reasonable ground, who is assessing that reasonable ground and what are some of the repercussions of that if that reasonable ground fails to meet the standard that is expected? Over here, the bottom line is that warrantless searches means that they can search any place, at any stage, listed in this particular section. We talked about the fact that they can go into anyone\u2019s house, anyone who has an FPO, and then conduct a search. Yes, we have heard from the Minister that if they are looking for anything else other than what is required and what is for the consideration of FPO, that will be considered inadmissible. That is something they have to tread very carefully. Nevertheless, it does not fail to address the fact that they can go into these people\u2019s homes at any stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThat is the crux of the situation we\u2019re talking about here, because when they do that, when you have people\u2014and we talked about scenarios\u2014going into your house, like many people here who talk about the harmfulness of gangs, who talk about the harmfulness of gang members, you would be horrified when the gang member comes to your house, wouldn\u2019t you? Particularly when they have a firearm, how do you feel? What do you think about for those gang members when they have a police officer charging into their house by right of law at any stage, at any time, any time of the day? That is serious. That is serious for them. That is serious for their family. It is serious for their children. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EImagine the kind of trauma that that would create for children, and you\u2014sorry, not you, Mr Speaker\u2014people, and the Government in general, ask why we say that some people in some parts of our communities are more fearful of police than they are of gang members. This is one of the reasons why, because if you are a child of a gang member or a child of anyone who holds an FPO, or a child\u2014like the Hon Dr Duncan Webb mentioned before\u2014of a family who may have invited someone over to stay who has an FPO, the police could come and search you at any stage. That is serious\u2014that is serious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOn top of that, there are other instances. It\u2019s not just gang members, but there are other instances where this creates generational trauma. This creates trauma for those rangatahi and for those tamariki. Another good example of that is overstayers, in the context of the Dawn Raids. That\u2019s another place where we have heard from those people that you had people who came in at 4 or 5 in the morning, knocking down their doors, searching for them\u2014looking for overstayers. We\u2019re looking at trying to create that balance. We\u2019re looking at what it means for these people to experience that kind of trauma and looking at how we can minimise trauma. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve said we\u2019re supposed to be doing while talking about keeping the public safe, not what this bill is doing here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ELastly, another thing that we have asked, and which has not been addressed in this particular bill, is that, again, if we were there to really provide for public safety, why are we only targeting those who have been convicted on whom then will be placed an FPO? Why aren\u2019t we talking about the broader context of gun violence in Aotearoa New Zealand? Why are we not talking about the fact that there are people who are harming our communities who are committing massacres with no track record, with no criminal record? They\u2019re not on any form of watch-list, and they are harming and hurting our communities. That is important here, when we are talking about gun safety. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe Green Party does not support this bill, because of the fact that even though having FPOs is a good idea, the way that this legislation is laid out isn\u2019t. The way that this targets specific parts of our community isn\u2019t. We have seen this sort of legislation being introduced in this House over the last little while, and we have heard about the additional amendments and additional search powers it has introduced, and I, for one, am concerned for those tamariki and for those rangatahi who are in that environment where they are being searched unjustifiably because of legislation that this Government introduces and is trying to pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI\u2019m concerned for those tamariki and rangatahi who feel like their Government has failed them and is creating even more distance and even more barriers for us to reach out to them. I am concerned for our migrant communities and for our Muslim wh\u0101nau, who still, to this day, are asking the Government to recognise and to listen to their fears and concerns when it comes to terrorists and to terrorism activities from people who are not on any sort of watch-list. The Green Party does not support this bill. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u00229e476f24380f4f9796e5ceb5fc18bab7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e476f24380f4f9796e5ceb5fc18bab7\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Time to clear up a bit of confusion, because there\u2019s been a large amount of confusion on this bill in the House over the past couple of days. The first bit of confusion is I\u2019m confused that members opposite are taking very, very long calls, because last night they were desperate to shut down debate. They hate the bill so much that they were desperate to shut down debate, vote on it through committee stage, and see it here for third reading, and now here they are speaking at length about how much they continue to dislike the bill. Well, members opposite need to change their attitudes and change their minds and support this bill, because it is a good bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003ELast night, we had a history lesson from Arena Williams, a history lesson on the firearms prohibition orders\u2014not protection orders; prohibition orders, to clear up another bit of confusion. Arena Williams correctly stated that these were introduced by Labour in the last Government. What she forgot to mention was that they were first proposed in 2017 by National. They were put up as members\u2019 bills by National, voted down by Labour, and then surprise, surprise, as violent gun crime went up, as gang membership went up, Labour changed their tune and they put in firearms prohibition orders. Now the Green Party also think firearms prohibition orders are a good idea; they just don\u2019t like the fact that we are strengthening them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThis is a good bill. It will strengthen the protections put in place by these firearms prohibition orders. The bill strikes the right balance between enhancing public safety and ensuring fair application of the law. I\u2019m not going to criticise the contribution from Dr Duncan Webb. He has a lot of experience in this area as an advocate for people who are subject to these kinds of orders. I\u2019m not going to criticise his lived experience in this area, but I am going to criticise his contribution to the House. It is wrong. He needs to change his mind and support the bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u0022be0df96e75b34587807e04157d863af8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be0df96e75b34587807e04157d863af8\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill. This is another effort by the Government to give the tools to the police that they need to take care of serious crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First fully supports this bill. It\u2019s about protecting public safety, it\u2019s about getting our communities safe, it\u2019s about stopping violent crime and, unlike the Opposition who\u2019s trying to protect their voter base\u2014which I must say is getting smaller\u2014it is about restoring law and order. It is about common sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports this bill because it strikes the right balance between enhancing public safety and ensuring fairness in its application. The amendment recommended by the Justice Committee improved the bill by focusing its reach on those\u00A0who it generally poses a risk to without overreaching into the lives of innocent individuals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First supports this bill because it is a necessary step in protecting New Zealanders from the threat of gun violence, particularly in the context of gang and organised crime. It is a sensible, focused, and balanced piece of legislation that New Zealand needs. It has contributed to what New Zealand First believes in, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226ce3e1e275814facb1936d21e921098f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ce3e1e275814facb1936d21e921098f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Five minutes\u2014Fernando Hernandez.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffdfe7216698478d9afd7aae69910485\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffdfe7216698478d9afd7aae69910485\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Francisco Hernandez, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251acdb2d128649da958fe45d2119b36f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Francisco Hernandez.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022405f6b7ecec44de68c418c5e272d3529\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s all good. I\u2019ve often been confused with my other colleagues, such as Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March and Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan, but I\u2019m pleased to report that as they\u2019re more handsome and better dressed than me, I\u2019m not offended by any sorts of confusion between us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI rise to take a call on the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill. I want to talk a little bit about the kind of genesis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8d24bcddda445f2a9eb59855bcd5476\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Strong OUSA presence today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299120b81112d4c5abebf08bec1b27d23\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right\u2014strong OUSA. Ha, ha! I want to talk a little bit about the genesis of this, and the genesis of this was, as Mr Meager alluded to, yes, it was talked about as a National member\u2019s bill. But it was a tranche of legislation that was adopted by the then Labour Government following\u2014and I\u2019m sure all of us members in the House would agree\u2014a very tragic and very senseless attack on 15 March. My colleague Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan rightfully pointed out that we do need to actually centre the voices of the people in this. We need to centre the voices of the people who\u2019ve been affected by gun violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI think a lot of people have made a point and a lot of members opposite have kind of talked about a focus on the gangs, right? This bill does actually focus quite strongly on the gangs. A lot of the member\u2019s contributions have been about the gangs, but if we\u2019re serious about the gangs, how do we actually get rid of the gangs? Will we get rid of the gangs by creating jobs? Instead, this Government has pursued fiscal and monetary policies which have pushed unemployment up\u20144.6 percent; the highest it\u2019s been. If we\u2019re serious about getting rid of gangs, we have to invest in police. Instead, we\u2019ve seen this Government making cuts to police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EThis is a quote from the New Zealand Police Association about the cuts that are being made to the police\u2014nearly 200 jobs\u2014\u201CWe think this will be a scattergun headcount-reduction exercise made in a silo by people who don\u2019t understand the work people do, who they do it for, and who also won\u2019t personally be affected by the outcome of the [so-called] \u2018realignment\u2019 exercise.\u201D, which is a euphemism of the cuts that are happening around the Police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EIf we\u2019re serious about actually taking action on guns, we have to create environments whereby social inclusion is fostered. This legislation does the opposite. It adds to the layer of stigmatisation of people who\u2019ve already been through a lot. I mean we\u2019ve heard a lot about the inquiry into State abuse about how people who\u2019ve been abused by the State tend to turn to the gangs for comfort. I think we need to contend with these actual psychological realities. I mean some people do join gangs because they\u2019re bad people\u2014that\u2019s absolutely true and we should make no excuses for the people who do join the gangs\u2014but there are some people who\u2019ve joined the gangs because of the trauma that they\u2019ve experienced in their life. Further compounding trauma and further using the State\u00A0to further abuse people isn\u2019t what\u2019s actually going to be a serious anti-crime or anti-gun thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve talked a lot about the potential harassment, and Dr Duncan Webb has made substantial and quite informed and eloquent contributions about the potential for these warrantless searches to be used against the communities. I do think that\u2019s definitely something that will further compound and further add to the layers of trauma that are already here. So my plea to the members opposite and my plea to all the members across this House, actually, is that rather than shouting slogans and actually saying, \u201COh, well, we need to crack down on the gangs. We need to deploy the police on the street. We need to execute people.\u201D or whatever, we actually look to see what\u2019s worked overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s worked is actually fostering inclusion. What\u2019s worked is actually funding the police and funding people to do the jobs that need to be done so that we actually do make serious work on reducing gangs and reducing the harms that they do\u2014we actually create jobs and employment opportunities. Instead, we\u2019ve been going backwards\u2014we\u2019ve been going backwards under this Government. We\u2019re seeing beneficiaries stigmatised, we\u2019re seeing the overall employment rate cut, and it\u2019s really quite sad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI just want to conclude my speech by thanking the Minister for her substantial engagement during the committee of the whole House last night. I was able to take a call and my colleagues in the Greens were able to take calls, and she did answer our questions in a way that was quite direct and, I found, inclusive. So thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022056eb58d515f47c6b2a061e6de260b73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022056eb58d515f47c6b2a061e6de260b73\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E There is a reason why gang members were campaigning against this Government last year. There is a reason why gang members were campaigning against the ACT Party, were campaigning against the National Party, and were campaigning against New Zealand First. Now we\u2019ve got the unedifying sight of Labour, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, and the Greens vying for their votes in 2026. What we are seeing are apologists for gangs. What we are seeing are promoters of gangs, protectors of gangs, and defenders of gangs. The gangs know that this Government is going to make it easier to take the guns off them and we\u2019re going to make it easier to search them. That\u2019s exactly what this Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u201CMany New Zealanders\u201D, was the quote from the Green Party a couple of weeks ago, \u201Cwould rather find themselves down a dark alleyway with a patched gang member than a police officer.\u201D Can I give that to you again? For those listening on \u201Ctruth radio\u201D and on Parliament TV, \u201CMany New Zealanders would rather find themselves down a dark alley with a patched gang member than a police officer.\u201D This is how deluded the Opposition is. This is how deluded they are and this is why they lost so badly at the last election. If they want to go out on a pro-gang mandate in 2026, well, this is the beginning of it. They are the apologists for gangs, they are the protectors of gangs, they are the defenders of gangs, and they are the promoters of gangs. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8f043d08ab7462eb4f3851d12d64a3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8f043d08ab7462eb4f3851d12d64a3d\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was going to start with proclaiming this to be a little bit of window dressing from the National Party, but my colleague Cameron Brewer just stood up and acted out the window dressing, so one doesn\u2019t really need to spell that out any further. The dramatics and the scraping the bottom of the barrel to make some sort of vacuous point is a little bit silly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ENevertheless, the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill is before us in this House today, and it is facing its third reading, which feels like a bit of a waste of time. Let\u2019s begin by acknowledging the fact that the existing framework is in place\u20142021, the previous Government introduced legislation that, essentially, does this\u2014and it hasn\u2019t had enough time to actually bed in properly. We haven\u2019t had enough time to evaluate it. We don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s working or not, but never miss an opportunity for the Government to go, \u201CLet\u2019s just pretend we can do something that says we\u2019re tough on gangs; we\u2019re tough on crime.\u201D A little bit of window dressing; a little bit of nothing\u2014that sounds good but does nothing. All talk, no trousers at the end of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThese orders that are already in place are a critical tool and they do do something. They\u2019re a critical tool for the courts to prevent individuals\u2014particularly those involved in criminal activities\u2014from owning or using dangerous firearms. The current legislation, we believe, is comprehensive. It covers not only firearms but also ammunition. It covers restricted weapons and other related items.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003ETo be going through this process now in the third reading to do something that makes it seem even more tough or strengthens it is a little bit silly. We don\u2019t need to make the changes. We don\u2019t support this piece of legislation. We think it has fish-hooks in it that create dangerous situations that have been well traversed by colleagues on this side of the House. We do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u002248238a26700e4b0da63e06ed9b6a8839\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248238a26700e4b0da63e06ed9b6a8839\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is the third reading of the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill. It\u2019s really sad when we just think that in South Auckland, two weeks ago, there was a drive-by shooting in Papakura, at a gang pad; one month ago, a drive-by shooting in M\u0101ngere, South Auckland, at an alleged gang pad; early July, a home was shot at in \u014Ctara, South Auckland. The list goes on, and that\u2019s only in the last month and a half. There\u2019s a reason why we\u2019re pushing ahead with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u201CWindow dressing\u201D is a term that is being thrown around a lot by the Opposition. In the Cambridge Dictionary: \u201Ca person or thing that is used to make an activity appear more important or attractive than it really is\u201D. That is what the Opposition is saying we\u2019re trying to do with this bill, but I know what we\u2019re trying to do: we\u2019re trying to protect families, we\u2019re trying to protect rangatahi and tamariki. We commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022f74df24013ba4f0dbf57a583dbc79f48\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f74df24013ba4f0dbf57a583dbc79f48\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I tell you what\u2019s really sad about this bill is that what we\u2019re seeing is a Government that is so divided and wants to sound like they\u2019re tough on crime. On the one hand, National is trying to strengthen firearms prohibition orders (FPOs). On the other hand, the Minister Nicole McKee\u2019s name is synonymous with the pro-gun lobby in New Zealand\u2014everyone knows that\u2014and they want to bring back military-style semi-automatic weapons. So which is it? Pick a lane. Just trying to sound tough on crime really isn\u2019t cutting it, and I think people will start seeing through this pretty quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll be very quick, because my colleagues have traversed the reasons why we on this side oppose this piece of legislation, but the two points that I wanted to make really quickly are the fact that it\u2019s, firstly, too soon. FPOs, as members opposite have also acknowledged, were brought into play in 2021, so whether they need to be strengthened to the level that we\u2019re seeing in this proposed legislation remains to be seen. We don\u2019t actually have the evidence. There\u2019s been no evaluation that has been undertaken of the current legislation, let alone knowing whether widening the current police powers to such warrantless and causeless searches is even necessary. As my colleague Dr Duncan Webb has outlined, this is an unnecessary piece of legislation that\u2019s occupying the House\u2019s time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003EThe second point that he also made very clearly and I just wanted to highlight was the fact that these are warrantless, causeless searches that will come into play as a result of this legislation being passed. There is, of course, the potential to misuse this. It is incredibly broad, it is unwarranted, it is unnecessary, and for all those reasons I do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u00227cbc2caa64f844659ebb6cc4b8489551\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cbc2caa64f844659ebb6cc4b8489551\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak in support of this bill. Look, we\u2019ve had far too much gang-related crime over the past six years, and we\u2019ve seen it get out of control under a Labour Government that was soft on crime\u2014very soft on crime. The good news for the people of New Zealand\u2014and I can see people on the on the other side of the House smiling at the good news that the Comancheros are no longer in the South Island. That is because our Government has worked very hard to make sure that they know they\u2019re not welcome any more. We\u2019ve got a Government that is tackling them, and this Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill is another piece in that armoury to make sure that we can do what we need to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ELook, there have been some concerns on the other side of the House about, you know, what this may do to those households where police do come in and go through and search, and concerns I heard from the Hon Dr Duncan Webb about it happening at any time of the day. I do understand where he\u2019s coming from on that, but I don\u2019t necessarily agree that it should prohibit them from being able to do that, because, at the end of the day, we are talking about gang members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ENow, look, I know people on the other side of the House tend to be a lot more sympathetic to gang members than we are over here on the Government benches, but at the end of the day, you have to have committed a crime to be admitted to a gang. These are not friendly people. Yes, they have often had a very hard upbringing and faced challenges, and there are a number of reasons that people do join gangs, so I\u2019m not discounting that at all, but at the end of the day, gangs are out there peddling meth and peddling misery throughout New Zealand society, and it is often the most vulnerable members of New Zealand society that fall victim to gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003ETo take the cushy, soft approach that the previous Government took\u2014look at what we saw. We saw an over 50 percent increase in gang numbers\u2014an over 50 percent increase in gang numbers\u2014over the previous Government. We are taking a different approach. We are saying, \u201CLook, if you want to be part of a gang, you do that, but don\u2019t expect any sympathy from us. We are going to come after you. We are going to take your firearms. We are going to take your patches. We are going to make sure that you cannot associate with other people who you are engaged in, or potentially engaged in, criminal activity with. You don\u2019t have a place, operating like that in New Zealand\u2014if you want to, we will hold you accountable.\u201D That is what we are doing. We have already seen the Comancheros disappear\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c502fc9421f444528bb2f5d600c588aa\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Bye-bye.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7059666a4e6467eb90235b517a064c4\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014bye-bye\u2014from the South Island. That is right, the Hon Scott Simpson, they are out of the South Island. I can see Duncan Webb trying to conceal a little grin over there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298dbeffa-e059-49d5-8bbf-579cbaead9a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fff110d0f0c4a1bb81e254efa2e19bf\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s thrilled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284f2e89f3acd45adaa6ac52bd098a873\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s thrilled. He\u2019s going to have a beer at the airport after this, on his way back to a safer South Island.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225734d8801feb4bcb9223e3c865e84874\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s actually misleading to say that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e11e804769054947825a84ce8edc3105\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you can stand up and take a point of order if you would like, and you can do that. You can stand up and take an issue with it if you want, but I would like to think anyone in the South Island would be happy that the Comancheros are no longer there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EWhat a great appearance we have now\u2014the Hon Mark Mitchell, the Minister of Police, coming in here. Well done, Minister\u2014that is very good; we are very happy, over this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003EWe will continue the hard work we are doing in this place. We\u2019ve seen a lot more police on the beat, contrary to what the spokesperson from the Labour Party said yesterday about that not being the case. That didn\u2019t go well because the figures showed that there are more police on the beat. That side of the House can continue to live in that alternative reality that they often live in, but, here on this side of the House, we are a serious Government. We are dedicated to improving the safety and wellbeing of the people and communities around New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2e2d3caae194fa4a270b46289ce9168\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2e2d3caae194fa4a270b46289ce9168\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s interesting to hear the previous National Party member, Sam Uffindell, speak in the way\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293271ea3166a427fb6e32eaae3729df5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: More interesting than this!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6d0022d4916446aa8a3b899e0b56b02\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Gangs are a scourge on our society. Gangs are bad, and this side of the House is in complete agreement with that. What\u2019s happened today in Christchurch\u2014yeah, it\u2019s good. But also that doesn\u2019t mean that the gang is gone. The gang has been arrested, and that\u2019s the thing: for us on this side of the House, it\u2019s how do we deal with the causes of gangs? How do we deal with the causes of crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227edbf178922d4087bba815d44025f8d5\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: What about the victims?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c82110a7c254ef5b9d38146d3a689fd\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: How do we get tough on the causes on crime? I hear from the other side, \u201CWhat about the victims?\u201D, and that is absolutely what we support as well. We look at this piece of legislation: is this victim-centred? I\u2019m not sure. When I come from working in restorative justice, where it\u2019s completely victim-focused and victim-centred, I know a little bit about that and want to make sure whatever we do from this side of the House is around supporting victims, which also is dealing with the causes of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill is something that we cannot support\u2014whether it\u2019s around the warrantless searches, whether it\u2019s just around the fact this is the thin end of the wedge in terms of gun reform for us here. We need to look at a bigger picture. How do we change the way we engage not only with criminals, not only with gangs, but with looking at our young people, looking at our rangatahi, and looking at the ways that we can actually change the systems?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EWhat was mentioned before was that we are sympathetic to gang members, and I take offence to that because we are not sympathetic at all. We are sympathetic to ensuring that New Zealand is a place where no one finds the need or desire to join a gang. We are going to work day and night as an Opposition and, then, as a Government to ensure that we can get tough on the causes of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003ENow, we need to look at our gun reforms. We need to look at what we have done and what we are going to do. This isn\u2019t it. This legislation isn\u2019t going to fix the problem. Therefore, we cannot support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a04b7a0c743c4aa1ba753791a2688645\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a04b7a0c743c4aa1ba753791a2688645\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I rise in support of the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill, and it\u2019s a real privilege to be the last speaker on this third reading today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI\u2019d firstly like to just commend the Justice Committee for their very hard work in navigating this bill through the select committee process and, of course, through the House, because we on this side of the House are about restoring law and order, keeping our communities safe, and cracking down on gangs. This is about ensuring we are keeping illegal firearms out of the hands of gangs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003ELook, I come from a region, Hawke\u2019s Bay, the East Coast, where we have a major gang problem and we have seen a huge increase in the number of gang members in the past six years. In fact, we have a ratio of 2.5 gang members to one police officer, which I understand is actually one of the highest in the country. That is why we need to crack down on the gangs, because it\u2019s the gangs that are increasing crime. They are peddling meth and they are causing our communities to be unsafe; they are intimidating our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003ELook, I am going to speak to an example of some gang members yesterday, actually, in Hawke\u2019s Bay. It was an example, actually, of our Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Council\u2014and I\u2019m going to say it here in the House\u2014not reading the room at all because they enabled a whole lot of patched gang members to come into the public space, into the council chamber, and interact with the council leaders which is absolutely beyond belief, to be honest, that we had our council leaders interacting with patched gang members when it is actually illegal to wear a gang patch in a public building, in our schools, and on our public transport. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, our Government has, obviously, already introduced legislation in our first 100 days to crack down on the gangs to ensure that we ban gang patches in public spaces, and this is a really, really powerful message that we\u2019ve been sending to the gangs. It does really beggar belief that yesterday we did have our council leaders interacting with gang members in the council building, which is a public building and it is actually illegal for those gangs members to be wearing their patched gang memorabilia inside the council building. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI think that really was not reading the room which does lead me to talk about councils in general, actually, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e17ff9ad7d040e1802f78020916436e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, Ms Wedd. It leads you to talk about the bill. You\u2019ve had a pretty good go for four minutes; now let\u2019s lead you to talk about the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7ddc0e0dd5049039e3ca42617b39215\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: OK, yes, I\u2019m coming back to that because I think that our\u00A0focus\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7cc6ceb4c2341739c583a23813f22d0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yes you are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022991826fd4e754c7a8a948950e4db47d9\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: No, our focus, obviously, as central government and local government needs to be on getting the issues right, and that is restoring law and order and\u00A0that is making sure that we have safer communities and that is what our ratepayers want to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abfca556559b4e25a2af9b930f9d7473\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: And now you tell us how you\u2019re going to do that, Ms Wedd, or you\u2019ll be sitting down. You are talking about the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fce06fb15924fe291bf5669fbd61120\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I\u2019m talking about the bill. I am absolutely talking about the bill because this bill is about focusing on the issues that matter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221973ff437d014edc8181667f0c0f63c9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No, you\u2019re talking about what\u2019s in the bill, actually, Ms Wedd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fae3b3626a734bf78e7fdf53d5ed24f7\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s right\u2014in this bill, because it does make three key changes to the firearms prohibition orders (FPO) regime and it specifies new qualifying offences for gang members who are convicted of these offences. It gives New Zealand Police additional search powers. That\u2019s another thing, actually: police are really enjoying the fact that they\u2019ve finally got a Government that is going to give them more tools in their kit to be able to crack down on crime. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI actually visited the Hawke\u2019s Bay police station\u2014quite a new police station in Hawke\u2019s Bay\u2014and I spoke with a lot of our amazing Hawke\u2019s Bay police officers. I\u2019d just like to congratulate our Hawke\u2019s Bay police officers for all the hard work that they\u2019re doing, because they are actually really respecting these laws that we are pushing through to ensure that they do have more tools to be able to do their job and ensure that we strike the right balance so that they, obviously, have that balance between being able to execute more powers to be able to crack down on crime and deal with the rise in crime that we have seen over the past six years and also the increase in the number of gang members who are also peddling a lot of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EDuring that week that I actually visited the Hawke\u2019s Bay police station, I also visited the Hawke\u2019s Bay Regional Prison\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cc3252ffc464c8e86bc3190d5ce4ceb\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Right, and also it\u2019s not a tourist\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a15af31db4434645a7fd460721a18728\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c71b7a366f20470bb707c47f9b9e8ff6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Right, Ms Wedd, you have now not spoken about the bill for two minutes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b69d629c219d44aeadea3c160ffba74c\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: That is right, but I am just going to come back to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ceb777c24e14307b2585307db54069f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: No, Ms Wedd. Sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226594edaea60547829716fedb7d023f38\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8998af6f2a847438df7c591b405073c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Wedd, you\u2019ve had three warnings now. If you want to continue, you speak about the bill and the bill only. It\u2019s not a tour of the Hawke\u2019s Bay or anywhere else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228977923b1e29458494cca0b6225daa3f\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Thank you, Mr Speaker. No, I appreciate that. So, if I am coming back to the bill, and obviously the key elements of the bill, which, of course, are about providing more police with the tools, as I\u2019ve said, to ensure that they are able to have warrantless searches associated with the firearms prohibition orders\u2014so it enables a constable who maybe had the reasonable grounds to suspect that a person was subject to an FPO, giving them the powers to execute those warrantless searches associated with FPOs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EAlongside that, that obviously enables them to get those illegal firearms out of the hands of gangs, which really is the objective of this, to create safer communities and make sure that we are reducing crime, which is what we\u2019re all about on this side of the House\u2014reducing crime, creating safer communities. Therefore, I would like to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002253a44426150f4610a06225b06074424c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 13; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000535\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002297de386edf014de397a20c23125fe1b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297de386edf014de397a20c23125fe1b8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The House stands adjourned until 2\u00A0p.m. on Tuesday, 10 September 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240829519cb655077d47aeb413394889f470a9000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.58 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"