"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eb73c133ac4348e894af28d7fb379ee4\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 19 SEPTEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e3258363d064a02aa7387c03d770692\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 19 SEPTEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d5f3411d045844e48cb5706496c2d683\u0022\u003Ekarakia/prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002274da6e3414e3439796d3c6b888c5400b\u0022\u003Ekarakia/prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b410045bf9ef4eb8af15bddd7d6f753a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b410045bf9ef4eb8af15bddd7d6f753a\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226db99f4df5974aa5aafe7797b6c10b78\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ce39729c17dd4593ac90651055eba7f9\u0022\u003EDebates\u2014Reading of Speeches\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4eee20ff3f14f4c82e8be13d68cdeff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4eee20ff3f14f4c82e8be13d68cdeff\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, yesterday I undertook to give a considered ruling on the reading of speeches in debate. This topic has been the subject of numerous Speakers\u2019 rulings and Standing Orders Committee discussions over many years. The explicit prohibition of reading speeches was removed from the Standing Orders in 1995. In 2011, wishing to enliven debate, the Standing Orders Committee recommended reinstating the ban on reading speeches as a convention rather than a rule. The convention is that \u201CWhere possible, members should not read speeches.\u201D \u201CDebate is best served by members engaging with the points brought up in other \u2026 speeches, and some level of improvisation is needed\u201D to respond to other members\u2019 speeches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EThere are circumstances in which reading a speech may be acceptable. Such circumstances may relate to the technical nature of the material under discussion or a Minister\u2019s first reading speech or a Speaker giving a ruling, a maiden speech, or perhaps even a valedictory. General debates, however, should not necessitate members to read a speech unless it is something particularly technical in its nature covered in the speech. All members are entitled to refer to\u00A0notes, and some members may rely more heavily on them than others. The key thing is that\u00A0members are giving their own speeches, rather than the remarks prepared for them. In any case, no member other than the Speaker may interrupt a member who is speaking to mention a breach of this convention. I refer members to and reiterate Speakers\u2019 ruling 52/6, 52/7, and 52/3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7fa7a1e6a714ad9a1152db6de4d3d12\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d24b1ddf39634a929952b6f9a4d29d0b\u0022\u003EImplications of Recent Attacks in Lebanon\u2014Stability in the Middle East\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00227904643680c4462cbd948e1e8c7c4423\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227904643680c4462cbd948e1e8c7c4423\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve also received a letter from Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the recent attacks on people in Lebanon and the implications of this for stability in the Middle East. Urgent debates are a way of holding the Government to account for its actions. There must be administrative or ministerial responsibility for the case of recent occurrence. The member has not disclosed any such responsibility; therefore, the application is declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225dd44570ddcb43d3914619d377c471c4\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227d76baf2e955482a939017fefb18ca23\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u002275a82417db504bd6bf254faddf86385e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275a82417db504bd6bf254faddf86385e\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Leader of the House: E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Next week, the House will consider the first readings of the Building (Overseas Building Products, Standards, and Certification Schemes) Amendment Bill, the Parliament Bill, the Sentencing (Reform) Amendment Bill, and the District Court (District Court Judges) Amendment Bill. We will also have the third reading of the Appropriation (2024/25 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003EThere will be extended hours on Wednesday morning for Government business and the afternoon will be a members\u2019 day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u2019S RULINGS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ace227296d3346299c1db092c4802002\u0022\u003EDebates\u2014Reading of Speeches\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00224822337742c340eba7b06bbf47acda5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224822337742c340eba7b06bbf47acda5d\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I apologise for the slight delay in this. Thank you for that ruling and we support that. There\u2019s just one question I have about that, and that\u2019s in regard to the reference to a Minister\u2019s first\u00A0reading speeches. From memory, the Standing Orders Committee agreed that the introduction of legislative statements were in part to prevent the need for Ministers to read a speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002201c76fab9569414981274f81be730731\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201c76fab9569414981274f81be730731\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re actually quite right. That should have been the way it was put in that. With the indulgence of the House, I\u2019ll have that corrected in the ruling. It was the purpose of those statements\u2014that\u2019s quite right. Thank you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00224a43e7de0e9d4cb6b0263dd09fbd3f6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a43e7de0e9d4cb6b0263dd09fbd3f6a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. The time for Mr McAnulty to raise that was at the time it was being discussed, but since then you\u2019ve moved on with the business of the House and we cannot go back in that way. I would have thought, with respect, that you\u2019d have ruled him out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00223bbcb89154d34e8abd2032568b121ec5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bbcb89154d34e8abd2032568b121ec5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is actually what the point of order process is about\u2014bringing up matters that are to do with the order of the House\u2014and that definitely was a matter to do with the order of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294438a0a0dfc4fa0a8f04d187476922a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: But he\u2019s too late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ecb86c6f9f44426acc8ecb76992e450\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I tell you what, none of us are as fast as you. You\u2019ve pointed that out to me many times. And I understand you\u2019d still give me 20 metres in 100 yards and expect to beat me. In this case, we are now moving on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e88c68464bc749ab92bd9a961742fc51\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a5bf798a624b485ab29bde37c8074e41\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224b8e4849429242e69ca10efb7e787a35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b8e4849429242e69ca10efb7e787a35\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There have been no petitions presented. Ministers have presented papers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002234e11c7708b140d389eac12debe44881\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002234e11c7708b140d389eac12debe44881\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EAnnual reports for:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EAirways Corporation of New Zealand Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ECity Rail Link Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EKiwi Group Capital Ltd and subsidiaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Estatements of performance expectations for Auckland Light Rail Ltd. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00225fecb47ee2ff4d598d514be044161010\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fecb47ee2ff4d598d514be044161010\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002260a79700f3574cbeadd2f4fa2c79ff3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260a79700f3574cbeadd2f4fa2c79ff3f\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the review briefing on the 2022-23 annual review of the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Social Services and Community Committee on the review briefings on the 2022-23 annual reviews of Radio New Zealand, Television New Zealand, and the New Zealand Film Commission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002267a298af77b746d8953a22cdd6a6bd21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267a298af77b746d8953a22cdd6a6bd21\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those reports are set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223db87160741e4a25b3afdb13567e6e85\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022328cb6b848814b2f824493180a03b96b\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022803f50ad67414f208eae250f2cc6e3f4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Biosecurity\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf5cb8d3e70c4f7e94d11d022408aaf5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf5cb8d3e70c4f7e94d11d022408aaf5\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Biosecurity: What recent reports has he seen about the value of New Zealand\u2019s robust biosecurity system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022 data-id=\u00229e8cd043371e465399f4778692086dbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e8cd043371e465399f4778692086dbf\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Minister for Biosecurity):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier this month, the Government released an independent economic assessment that underlines the magnitude of the economic risk we face from an incursion of foot-and-mouth disease and how important it is that we respond quickly and decisively. The analysis found that if even a minor incursion of foot-and-mouth disease was found here, our access to foreign markets for animal products would stop, and the cost to our economy would be $1.5 billion in export revenue per month, demonstrating just how important the primary sector is to this country. The New Zealand Institute of Economic Research estimated that if we did nothing to return to normal trade, nominal GDP would fall by 11\u00A0percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7c03089b29e4827b171ff648469ab25\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Government done in response to receiving this analysis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e0dbfd9c40b4317a6d7ce4ca178f4af\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: This analysis informed Cabinet\u2019s decision to confirm that stamping out foot-and-mouth disease, if it ever gets here, is the most economically viable option, despite the significant cost of a response to both the Crown and the livestock industry. We have assured farmers and the wider economy that there won\u2019t be any mucking around; we will just get down to work to get rid of it and to get back to normal production and trade as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e30255443c4a444d87145af7e3e9296d\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What other key insights does the Minister take from this analysis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229887b5003baf4065bef8df642c9f992e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, that the best way to respond to an incursion of any significant disease is to keep it out in the first place. So the Government will continue to invest in a robust biosecurity system with the highest border standards in the world. It\u2019s also occurred to me that I\u2019ve heard some members of this House minimise the primary sector\u2019s contribution to the economy, but with a total projected annual loss of $14.3 billion per year for the disease\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229bb28ba7da704c7d85184bc223fc8f30\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: How much?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259674f0287934ecdbf8966be20e92640\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that\u2019s right, $14.3 billion per year\u2014that will directly affect only part of the sector, what this analysis shows is that farmers and rural businesses continue to underpin the living standards of all New Zealanders. On this side of the House, as we can hear, we obviously recognise that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b42b15dc769455f8f49e57989808577\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec2efa51407e4411adb0941ae657fc6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec2efa51407e4411adb0941ae657fc6e\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. Ka takahuri noa t\u0101na ture whakatau pae tere (2024), e whakaarohia nei, i ng\u0101 whakahekenga pae tere anake \u201Cwhere it is safe to do so\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E[Will his proposed setting of speed limits rule (2024) only reverse speed limit reductions \u201Cwhere it is safe to do so\u201D?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00229f02c8f7b66a483e80f71b9a864bacb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f02c8f7b66a483e80f71b9a864bacb6\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Associate Minister of Transport)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Transport: The Government is reversing Labour\u2019s blanket speed limit reductions on local streets, arterial roads, and State highways that have had their speed limits reduced since 1 January 2020, and restoring their speed limits to what was in place on 31\u00A0December 2019. The draft rule will also require slower speeds around all schools during pick-up and drop-off times to keep young New Zealanders safe. As the member will be aware, section 164(2)(c) of the Land Transport Act 1998 requires the Minister to have regard to the level of risk existing to land transport safety in New Zealand when finalising the Government\u2019s new speed limit rule. As the member will also be aware, the new rule has not yet been signed, but I can assure the member that the Minister will be taking safety into account as part of the process of signing the new rule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bdf706e5c9241ce9465006cae92417c\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government continuing with this policy after receiving a letter from over 100 road safety experts, including former Ministry of Transport Chief Science Adviser Simon Kingham, who said in the letter, \u201CWe strongly urge you to reconsider the proposed blanket speed limit increases. Should this rule be adopted, the tragic consequence will\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5fe1bdb1a084c1b98388e9667fd0832\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just ask a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278c3aa48c3f14762b5c9d3a3e72ea0a9\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014\u201Cbe more New Zealanders losing their lives\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecef9375d68a4aeabd40ca1ebba81da4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just ask a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219403d4335e84c8296928df6f8a882f6\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014\u201Cor suffering severe injury,\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dedc82ad0be240f19af533e3be31fbb6\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, we welcome feedback. That\u2019s why we went out for consultation. Up to two-thirds of New Zealanders supported the direction of travel. That\u2019s why the Minister is required to consider safety under section 164 of the Land Transport Act. Safety outcomes have, and will be, continued to be considered before the rule is finalised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6490d203068482d91e13b0b865715dc\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Will he listen to the many local councils who opposed these rule changes, like K\u0101piti Coast District Council, who stated in their submission, \u201Cwe believe the changes proposed are illogical and irresponsible.\u201D and \u201Creduce the safety of our roads, place yet another unfunded mandate on councils, and puts business and economics above the safety of our children.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c101add9042d4471a933b49a0c99165b\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, we have to remind ourselves here: we are only returning the speed setting rule back to 2019. Up to two-thirds of New Zealanders supported that direction of travel, and, as said in the answer to the primary question, as the member will be aware, the Minister has to take regard of the level of risk existing to land transport safety in New Zealand when finalising the Government\u2019s new speed limit rule, as set out under section 164(2)(c).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c3a2ae24b9d44b98f0388e33c8a0e15\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to Hamilton City Council, who in their submission stated, \u201Cnone of the proposals for reversing speed limit reductions have a safety assessment associated with them. International evidence is very conclusive that increasing speed limits exponentially increases [the] safety risk.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be0c5e0e3c43497581503bf632de201e\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, if we want to talk about international comparison, we can look at how our approach aligns with those of other high-income countries that have the lowest rates of road deaths\u2014including Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Japan, Denmark, and the United Kingdom, where these six countries all have default speed limits of 50 kilometres per hour or more on urban roads, with exceptions for lower speeds. That\u2019s what we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225586689f508f4e9bbbe0506326dfd50c\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister deny that the chance of a pedestrian surviving when hit by a car at 30 kilometres an hour is around 90 percent, whereas the chance of surviving at 50 kilometres an hour drops to only 20 percent, and will he acknowledge that the reversals of speed limit reductions that were determined by local communities and councils will jeopardise community safety?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e261de6916640dba124e86b01cbe543\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, the Ministry of Transport undertook an interim regulatory impact analysis to support the new speed rule. The Ministry of Transport advised that reversing reduced speed limits would likely result in an increase in the average speeds of these roads. Where the average speed increases, the risk of fatal and serious crashes also increases. The ministry was unable to quantify the overall impacts, due to a range of uncertainties that dictate actual operating speeds on individual roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224bb234eb2ba4d7caa8643fb4b5c742f\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Will he commit to listening to the feedback from city councils, from road safety experts here in Aotearoa and around the world, to police, and to schools and communities, and change the final rule to allow communities to keep safer speeds where they wish to have them, particularly all day around schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed1430cad9104ac790c9df76cb059915\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, this Government will commit, as the member asked, to improving road safety on New Zealand\u2019s roads. We\u2019ll be focused on areas that cause the greatest fatalities, and we have already made changes to target road-policing funding and to implement legislation to support new oral-fluid testing on the side of the road. Later this year, the Government will be announcing its new road safety objectives. It is committed to safer roads in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fed82111e9eb434dba1ab6dbc19b15cb\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I\u2019d like to table this document I received under the Official Information Act (OIA) from the New Zealand Transport Agency. It\u2019s crash data, which isn\u2019t publicly available, that shows speed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aca9a678d9e4528a0b2e2ac06d84519\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, hang on\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd673541364f449eafe065abcc76161d\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is one of the primary factors\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022512fb241764a430babe0b62a3da5d388\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbdbb2990a5147b2892d5a2ee5a9b8ec\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in fatal and serious crashes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bf2ebafc719464dbe182b09bd2419db\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If it\u2019s not publicly available, why is it published on the internet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee1288c9f5634edc9d149baaab5f2025\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, this table was released to me under the OIA. It is not available on the internet. This is a table that shows crash factors from 2014 to 2024, including alcohol and drugs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da4a88732aca42f4a27c99eacf0631e7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014sorry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209b979bd13824df3b0304ea2aa808458\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and speed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229b29686de9945359c48a81ad397713c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can the member just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245dc8becaeed4e5fba8c5525ffe944c1\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and a number of other factors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291893747efe949a59e77698c7f7c5b94\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s fine. Good. It\u2019s a great description, but why is that not available on the internet? I understood that such data is published by the ministry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dba7a50642e64a7abdcd7b0bf5436a5f\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: I assure you, Mr Speaker, that we looked for this data. It wasn\u2019t available broken down in this way, and we asked for the information from the New Zealand Transport Agency. They provided us a very comprehensive table, which has crash data, including alcohol and drugs and speed as contributing factors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238dd29705c464eae9d6449e1e8680080\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is it your analysis or theirs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224164647ab287454ebfddaec8a3aa7b90\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: No, this is a table that was given to us by the New Zealand Transport Agency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c63bfb1c4ec488583b50b5d703803f2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll put the leave. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E Document, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228801d7bc7c3c43aeaaa307fd928ef36c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e489838f8ba74e7b899d91459cf8e295\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e489838f8ba74e7b899d91459cf8e295\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002258ac97d037b441b086391031edfd58ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258ac97d037b441b086391031edfd58ed\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes, but with the usual caveats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292ec6bded5fa454cbecc1de7985c482b\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that today\u2019s GDP figures confirm that the economy has shrunk under his watch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022579dff1f03f94f968a75cc8099d28766\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is a stunning statement, because the reality is, what it confirms is that we inherited a horrible economy and it\u2019s going to take us some time to turn it around. Of course, some of us said that all the way through 2023 when they were borrowing money and tossing it around like an eight-armed octopus, which didn\u2019t save us at all; it made the situation so much worse. The journey back to recovery would be harder, but we\u2019re going to do it. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022932dd90d1e0c45649e5ec53bbd91a4b3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just say to the Government backbench that the loud noise while the\u00A0answer is being given actually deprives the public of the answer that they might like to hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e51e07ff4c646e380653eba6e2e93cc\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you very much. Just for the clarity of\u00A0the House, is the Rt Hon Winston Peters answering on behalf of the Prime Minister today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022848b9e8a65bc4167accf16582621ee49\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When he\u2019s here and the question is addressed to the Prime Minister, he answers as the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211cd23cb581e47968b87f866a387c0bf\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262bf7956f3054ef7b24e5817d53e8373\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that Kiwis do not see a future under his Government and are leaving in record numbers, with net 55,800 New Zealanders having left the country for the year ending July 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f10986932c3e4eb8995b7120e1beb114\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, New Zealand is very concerned and the Government is concerned as well, but, of course, many of those people left because of the climate that was engaged without their permission or knowledge by November 2023, when 133,000 net had come into the country with no warning to the people of New Zealand about hospitals, schools, roads, or any infrastructure required to accommodate them. It\u2019s those circumstances that makes our battle so much more difficult to keep New Zealanders in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1274d7e060748d1bfe9f980b08d3fd7\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: How does he reconcile the Government\u2019s target to reduce job seeker beneficiaries by 50,000 with an increase of 26,000 more beneficiaries since he took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286922ed11df94a0f83d4634fd82e4ade\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019ve got to look at the facts because a lot of facts, when they are put through the mind of a statistician, can be confusing. The reality is, we\u2019ve seen a massive drop off of those people dependent upon the State, as a consequence of this Government, and we\u2019re out there now, all over the country, creating jobs with all sorts of policies, and we expect that the tide will turn. But we inherited a very, very sad economy and it wasn\u2019t going to be able to turn around overnight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d9aa29b75da457c86dcc7bcd3ed0381\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he acknowledge that the declining economy and widespread job losses under his watch have led to more people being on the benefit now than what Treasury had forecast to peak in January 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254c5fe3ff46e4da1803362fcbd464d14\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Treasury getting the forecast wrong is not unusual. It\u2019s happened time and time again, including the state of the economy, when they were writing the books for Labour. The moment the election was over, we found that the books were not accurate. It was so much worse. Many of us suspected that, and here\u2019s the point, really: the economy will be turned around. All the long-term forecasts now, by those in the know, including a number of economists, is that New Zealand is going to come right. But we\u2019re on a difficult trajectory. It\u2019ll be a hard battle, but, to quote a famous song, \u201Chelp is on its way\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb8492ae8704e3d90b2a7f8a6abf7da\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that due to the declining economy and widespread job losses under his watch, the forecast is now far more grim, with jobseeker numbers forecast to rise to 214,000 in January 2025 instead of the previous Treasury forecast of 202,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212f5048b313e496cac5a3a4d717cda28\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: If any of the inferences in that question were correct, why is business confidence going up? Why is confidence in the Prime Minister going up? Why is confidence in Ministers going up, and, over there, confidence going down, if any of her inferences in that question were remotely correct?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e836064bcd147d1880ba388b6455581\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: A point of order, Mr Speaker. I don\u2019t feel like there was a correlation between the answer by the acting Prime Minister and the question asked, so I\u2019m just questioning whether or not he actually addressed the question I put.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fad10d6c439c4ae78d620f59fa156212\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think he did, but why don\u2019t you ask the question again and he can address it the same way?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223702e7f38d4e4e698690bd51c480884d\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that due to the declining economy and widespread job losses under his watch, the forecast is now far more grim with jobseeker numbers forecast to rise to 214,000 in January 2025 instead of the previous Treasury forecast of 202,000?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd4fdebd526847afbdae5154e7e1e1ce\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: To quote someone who said this countless times, I reject the premises of that question. If any of it was true, then why is business confidence out there going that way [Points upwards], confidence in the Government going that way, confidence in the Prime Minister going that way, confidence in the Minister of Finance going that way, if any of the statements made then, in that question, on the premises I reject, were remotely true?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d8333ef6fe4455ca930607adfe24a5f\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: When will he take responsibility for more Kiwis losing jobs, more Kiwis leaving New Zealand, and thousands more Kiwis needing welfare support instead of blaming others for what is clearly his fault?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022590257664480407e924c396bde67e8f7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know what happened on Celebrity Treasure Island, but maybe it was a flight from reality. Though I do notice that what\u2019s very clear from that programme is that this member is becoming very good\u2014she\u2019s becoming very good\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221751ee4196db42a98007c9fecbcbf58b\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: You wanted an invitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224db5585ad56a46528491ec4f021c487a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, I turned it down. I\u2019ve never done any of those things. Never been on women\u2019s magazines, never done all the kind of things that those members do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2416b2800b249cd82907bf7b1d6756a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019d love you!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203e6b0206ea5499aa46775305e13b186\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014no, we have a sense of pride in this political business. But my real point is, I\u2019ve noticed on that programme she\u2019s showing a great acuity with numbers, which, now that somebody\u2019s about to arrive in England very shortly, might come into play. I wish when she\u2019d made those allegations she would apply it to her questions, because what she\u2019s saying is simply incorrect. To blame us for a shonky economy which we inherited is mind boggling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002235d057fb1cab45a4aed351d0573e2441\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022 data-id=\u00229c467a2805fd48689ed2298033a91264\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c467a2805fd48689ed2298033a91264\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: E tautoko tonu ana ia i \u0101na k\u014Drero me \u0101na mahi katoa? Does he stand by all his statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec049072b74c415695404dd8649dd83b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec049072b74c415695404dd8649dd83b\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe m\u014D t\u014D p\u0101tai. Yes, I stand by my statement on Monday that \u201CWe want to return the victims of crime to the heart of the justice system.\u201D A big part of that is denouncing illegal acts and ensuring there are real consequences for crime, which is why the Government this week introduced a sentencing reform package that does just that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac15d67f0d124856bce65d3a78f4b706\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his post-Cabinet interview on Monday where he said he would not be comfortable with police having the power to search someone\u2019s home for a swastika, but he is comfortable with the police having the power to search someone\u2019s home for gang insignia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b7f45a9833e4f278af22b7f0480a530\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t recall making that exact statement. I think the discussion was around a variety of other things put to me, and the answer I was saying was that this legislation\u2014what we\u2019re talking about right here, right now\u2014is about the Gangs Bill and the gang insignia. The desire was there to create a set of escalating consequences for people that repeatedly flouted the law. So one of those consequences would be that if you\u2019re convicted three times within five years for flouting the law about the gang patch ban, then you\u2019ll face some uncomfortable circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e85321b76e68452eb914c4e163ea3d2d\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: Why are hate symbols such as swastikas not included in the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baa5d568cb2745da8e534508ac074c1e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Because the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill is about gangs and it\u2019s about gang patches, not a wide variety of signals. So that is the focus of it, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing, because we\u2019re concerned about the impact of gangs in our broader society. It might pay just to remind members that only about one in 400 adult New Zealanders are gang members\u2014one in 400\u2014yet they are associated with one in five\u00A0serious violent crime offences and, actually, one in four kidnappings. So one in 400 are gang members, and roughly one in five serious violent crimes are associated with gang members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230a80a9a010047a0adfa0bcb70018aff\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: Why are there no white supremacist gangs named in Schedule\u00A02 of the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fbc82535659c49dab4ac2467d3c75863\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not going to get into details around what the Comancheros are and what the Mongols are in terms of their ideology. The gangs who are listed in the gang register are the gangs that are associated with the Gangs Bill. But I would encourage the member\u2014if she\u2019s implying, like her colleague T\u0101kuta Ferris did\u2014that when we talk about gangs, we should not be jumping to the conclusion that we\u2019re talking about M\u0101ori in particular, of course, because the vast majority of M\u0101ori are not in gangs and the focus of this legislation is to reduce the number of victims of crime and M\u0101ori are more likely to be victims of crime. Dealing with gangs who peddle misery is in the benefit of all New Zealanders, including M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e55b612c042445f490fc6fff38212ac7\u0022\u003EHon Tama Potaka\u003C/span\u003E: M\u014D te Minita o Te T\u0101h\u016B o te Ture. Ki t\u014D whakaaro, ka iti iho te tokomaha o ng\u0101 M\u0101ori ka t\u016Bkinotia m\u0101 t\u0113nei pire? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E[For the Minister of Justice. In your opinion, will the number of M\u0101ori being mistreated reduce due to this bill?] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a436ad957064b438d45c9b54f7bfa3a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100e.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8ee80fb518b48a3a4b33f27e14bcbab\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he\u2019s fluent now!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265123b06afe04cf9aa9d068a4f7c7957\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Tautoko!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254307fcf6c0641a5ae3ee936d13838dc\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that banning gang patches from marae and tangihanga is an invasion of mana motuhake, tikanga, and a gross breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220605d68dd36341ceb0e7f74f6d8e8d5a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look, the purpose of this legislation is to ban gang patches from public places. It builds on the existing ban in relation to Government buildings, hospitals, and schools, which has been successful over the past few years, and it extends it to all public places. That includes some marae and some parts of marae, and that is because we are tired and New Zealanders are tired of the intimidation and fear caused by gangs. So we\u2019re very much focused across all of New Zealand to give people some relief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c063d11147f4b3bb56fcd8d2b080c33\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: How does he justify legislation that is a clear breach of human rights, such as freedom of association and expression, without any evidence that it will reduce harm in our communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022457d90c210914f05b2bb4f6b7a68ae16\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, we accept that there are limits on freedom of expression, and we are limiting the freedom of expression of gang members to wear their patches in public. That\u2019s a statement of fact. But we\u2019re also concerned about the rights of ordinary New Zealanders to go about their lives without fear and without having to deal with the intimidation and the trouble and chaos and mayhem that gangs cause across our community. Like all Governments, we have to balance sometimes competing rights, and, in this case, we think it\u2019s absolutely appropriate to ban gang patches in public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203e3da475f704c0789de8f9bd7d23795\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister concerned that illegal behaviour at a Manurewa marae is something that has to be addressed by the law enforcement agencies of this country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee64b96b020d41ca9704eabd280ebedf\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed, I am concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6863ba99c934b72899905ee0026d049\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: What role does he believe Te Tiriti o Waitangi plays in the criminal justice system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfcf4e95a249437fa9edd11e29612484\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the Treaty of Waitangi is part of our broader constitutional framework, and, as a Government, we seek to recognise commitments made in the Treaty and in Treaty settlements. We also recognise the basic human rights and expectations of all New Zealanders, particularly around equality of the law and their basic universal human rights. One of those fundamental human rights is to feel safe in the community in which you live, and this gangs legislation, alongside the sentencing reforms we\u2019re making and the many other things we\u2019re doing to restore law and order, are all focused on law-abiding citizens in this country being able to live in their communities feeling safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a4b250dc2c543bd97fdc2f0c6146893\u0022\u003ETakutai Tarsh Kemp\u003C/span\u003E: How, then, does he justify the removal of Treaty provisions from legislation that is designed to address Treaty breaches in the justice system, such as the Corrections Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d425ca4b3a94f418f34111b0c53de79\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: If the member is referring to the New Zealand First - National commitment in the coalition agreement around reviewing the Treaty references right across legislation, there are, I think, roughly 25 or 30 pieces of legislation that make references to the Treaty in a variety of ways\u2014some give effect to, some have regard to, and a number of other formulations. The previous Government started a process to take stock of those and ask ourselves, as a Parliament: is that legislation fit for purpose? It\u2019s our intention to go through that in a careful and considered way and to be clear about what Parliament does and doesn\u2019t mean when references to the Treaty and Treaty principles are referred to in legislation. So that\u2019s a process that we\u2019ll be working our way through over the next few months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ecfbb55a2a354dc6923bfc15856358fd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a99d69dfd9ec48abb04331a82eee254a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a99d69dfd9ec48abb04331a82eee254a\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00220b580343b8894652a4ea27ff0826b563\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b580343b8894652a4ea27ff0826b563\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. This morning, Stats NZ released the GDP results for the June quarter, which ran from 1 April to 30 June this year. This showed that economic activity fell 0.2 percent compared to the previous quarter. This follows a string of mostly low and negative GDP results going back to late 2022. That was the point at which rising interest rates started to bite on economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022990c42c4577b436499da0f6f8c29af18\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Was this negative result a surprise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffc8dd0fad124024a935b35d8db8c443\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: No, this result was not a surprise; it was well anticipated by economists and forecasters. For example, in its August Monetary Policy Statement, the Reserve Bank forecast negative 0.5 percent growth in the June quarter, considerably higher than this result. Other forecasters were also picking negative growth, and, looking ahead, the Reserve Bank is also forecasting negative 0.2 percent growth in the current September quarter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d973bedece4644ebaeb158858f1a2c69\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Why has economic growth been so low?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235b73d6c9da0424588773dccfd7c66c2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand has endured a prolonged period of restrictive monetary policy. In response to the cost of living crisis, the Reserve Bank hiked interest rates sharply, with the official cash rate going from 0.25 percent in 2021 to 5.5 percent in mid-2023. The Reserve Bank judged that this was necessary to squeeze very high inflation out of the economy. It is of note that, at that time, interest rates were rising high even while the Government of the time continued to put cash into the inflation fire. This has meant very difficult times for many New Zealand families and businesses, and I acknowledge it is still tough for them. The good news is that inflation is coming down, and the cost of living crisis is easing. We are on the right track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022516e3c48dd604c5ebeff2d5756c2a44b\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What is the outlook for interest rates and economic growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263071fec717749b3b96ca5a6def2bfaf\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Interest rates are still relatively high, but they are coming down earlier than forecast. The Reserve Bank reduced the official cash rate by 25 basis points last month and has set out a path for continued reductions. Lower interest rates will be a breath of fresh air for the economy. There will be a lag between interest rates reducing and growth picking up, but that will happen and the economy will start to grow again. That is good news for New Zealand families and businesses after years of low growth and high inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b17c0b4bac64010926149d6e5bcf1ca\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u0022268b991e895e43ff93f050d354dc031d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022268b991e895e43ff93f050d354dc031d\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. Does she stand by her statement, \u201CWe are focused on supporting our economy to grow\u201D; if so, how much has the economy grown since she took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022678596a842814da1b47c725a323796a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022678596a842814da1b47c725a323796a1\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, absolutely, I stand by that statement. In answer to the second part of the question, GDP in the June 2024 quarter was 0.1 percent lower than in the December 2023 quarter. As I said in my earlier answer, the GDP data out today shows the impact of high interest rates. It follows a series of mostly low and negative GDP results going back to late 2022. The economy has been suffering the after-effects of a long, prolonged cost of living crisis and the Reserve Bank has kept rates high to tackle inflation. The good news is inflation is now easing, interest rates have fallen and are forecast to fall further, and, judged by business confidence surveys, difficult conditions are easing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7e882e07b8d47e7a5840f720b61753a\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is the fact that the economy has shrunk under her watch contributing to the record net migration loss of 55,800 New Zealand citizens?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f6f513e589f48cf88524bab03f38252\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I believe one of the very reasons the three parties on this side of the House were elected was because New Zealanders could see their economy was being terribly mismanaged. We were elected on a platform to fix it, to bring fiscal discipline back, to bring economic rigour back, to get back on the side of businesses so that they can invest and grow and hire people, to reduce red tape, and to deliver infrastructure. We are doing all of those things so that New Zealand can face better economic prospects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272c79f90f05947159326651cd03ab999\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Why, when the Government wants to take credit for inflation coming down, won\u2019t she accept responsibility for the downturn in economic activity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022989f31b985af4104b96a4db6a12b5903\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve outlined in some detail in the answers to the questions I have had in the House today, New Zealand has gone through a prolonged period of restrictive monetary policy. I was not the finance Minister in the Government that chose to do record levels of increases to Government spending when inflation was at record highs. And when I reflect on that decision, I have no doubt that that contributed to the Reserve Bank lifting interest rates higher and keeping them higher for longer. On our watch, inflation has come back into band quicker than many forecast, and interest rates have come down a year earlier than had been forecast. I will take accountability for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbb0db7b681743428e06b5737edbe566\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the case that her decision to make significant cuts and cancel infrastructure projects is making the downturn worse than it needs to be?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022195549ca7f2541428ec7def89086398f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: No. This year the New Zealand Government will oversee a record level of infrastructure investment. And I would also say to the member that it is difficult to take these questions seriously when only months ago, she was warning me that tax relief would be inflationary and that our Budget was too expansionary. She cannot have it both ways, members. She cannot both claim that we spent too much in the Budget and then a couple of months later say we should have spent more. Which is it? Would the real finance spokesperson for the Opposition please stand up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eef4efea3a404096ba50136cac3861bc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Seeing as the Hon Barbara Edmonds talked about infrastructure projects being cancelled, does she recall and understand, and has she made her colleagues aware of how serious it was to have spent $1.2 billion on an infrastructure project called light rail in Auckland and not build one metre?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208024ee892e34ffab9c35f846a10360e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The Deputy Prime Minister raises a very good point. It is something that I lament often when I think of the hundreds of millions and billions that were wasted on go-nowhere projects: light rail, three waters, the list goes on. And, on this side of the House, when we talk about investing in infrastructure, we don\u2019t mean putting visualisations of trains on the front page of the Herald; we mean building things. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251cf193e7d934ba68993984ca1e293dc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Stop! Everyone just calm down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3f488d01b934c0285ec9876da0c19b6\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. We\u2019ve discussed a number of times in question time the use of patsy questions from Government parties to Government Ministers for the purpose of making a political point, and you have agreed previously that that sort of behaviour is not good for the decorum of the House. It comes as no surprise to me that some members were reacting to that question and that answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d10db6b7c2242ce8cddd8421ad98a84\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m happy that you weren\u2019t surprised, but I\u2019ve also said that it\u2019s not inappropriate for the Government of the day to refer to activities of a previous Government in the context of the questions being asked, and that most certainly was. Is there another question? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022487f9d711845421db970d62781ae8b8d\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the case that when there is a downturn in the economy and a growing output gap, Government action can help to smooth the troughs in the economic cycle, and does she not need to actively make it worse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6f40c21d5b641f29a103bb1f5d8f8e4\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there is no doubt that Government action can contribute to an economy\u2019s fortunes. That is really clear to anyone who\u2019s had to face a huge spike in electricity prices this year, who will reflect that, for example, a Government policy decision to stop oil and gas exploration has had some long-run impacts. At the same time, actions like introducing legislation which will allow for fast-track permitting and consenting of major growth-enhancing developments for New Zealand will have a material impact. This is a Government on the side of growth, on the side of development, that is removing red tape and doing everything we can to increase business confidence and investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be776007af8446a1a201f910628ff334\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Going from the Hon Barbara Edmonds\u2019 question on infrastructure projects being closed down, what was the cost for the cycleway over the Harbour Bridge in Auckland costing $54 million and not one\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022447cbd82a61d4b148ec050a4fb39db05\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the cost of iReX cancellation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254edb3148ed2433e953adc305c194b4c\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019d you say?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229c069cdb-968c-4f11-b126-92f9c655148b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f79d991a36b44260a318ecb44a4cbdea\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the cost of iReX cancellation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277d9325e77ef4818b042e46554837fe6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll hear about iReX shortly, but in the meantime it\u2019s going to be the cycleway over the Harbour Bridge: did it not cost $54 million for not one metre being built?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225deb555f0f8341188e0a88b80e431e21\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no need to answer that question, because the question actually contained its own answer. Do we have another question, the Hon Barbara Edmonds? Then we go to question No.\u00A07.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022270e4cd5ced8434a82bdf3335eea4fb8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022 data-id=\u00223e32d360fbda442ebde2084271faad93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e32d360fbda442ebde2084271faad93\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What actions is the Government taking to restore law and order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8690d506cf248a798b1bd13b2e56cc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8690d506cf248a798b1bd13b2e56cc1\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is taking many actions to restore law and order. Just this week, the sentencing amendment package was announced and introduced, Minister McKee and I appointed the remaining members of the ministerial advisory group for the victims of retail crime, and today we are making further progress to pass the Gangs Bill and Sentencing Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0fa2e8fc76e4381822a4938581fbc24\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: How will the sentencing reform package contribute to the restoration of law and order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be21307250ee4e15a9ac086214085574\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Government is concerned that in recent years, courts have imposed fewer prison sentences and, at the same time, the prevalence of violence and serious crime in our communities has increased. We will put more serious offenders in prison for longer to prevent them creating new victims, and, if they spend time in prison on remand, we will ensure that they have access to rehabilitation to turn their lives around. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ea1264d949443279acfd340be08e06e\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: How will the ministerial advisory group for victims of retail crime contribute to the restoration of law and order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ec578c8adb54786a2ddd086ab68de0d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the ministerial advisory group for the victims of retail crime is moving at pace to develop specific proposals for the Government to consider as part of its plan to restore law and order, starting with options on how security guards and business owners can better protect themselves, and considering greater powers for security guards to detain thieves. The first proposals are due imminently. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223188005b8dfb4e08adb068728e493cef\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: When the Minister said in oral question No. 10 yesterday, \u201CI frequently converse with the Attorney-General.\u201D, was there actually specific consultation with the Attorney-General on the amendment inserting an offence of residing in a place where a gang patch is present into the Gangs Bill, or not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a5b7b4810b942abae2bada6c9944324\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The amendment went through the Cabinet process, and the Attorney-General is part of the Cabinet and was certainly consulted as part of that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222837c142-c937-468e-9984-bc646d066687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f89cf23fccfc465aa90fbf43ec66a803\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Gangs Bill contribute to the restoration of law and order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228c9041daed14d07ac173859a70b10fa\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Gangs Bill and the Sentencing Amendment Bill are expected to pass today. When it comes into effect on 21 November, the Gangs Bill will give police additional tools to disrupt gang activity and reduce their ability to cause fear, intimidation, and disruption to law-abiding New Zealanders going about their lives. This legislation is a significant step towards making our communities safer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EQuestion Nos 2 and 8 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00223fcd7d57b3bb4e6986645e8d54fd09dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fcd7d57b3bb4e6986645e8d54fd09dd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. You observed question Nos 2 and 8, both from the Green Party. There seems to be something quite unusual going on here, because instead of it being in M\u0101ori and then English, or in English and then M\u0101ori, they\u2019ve mixed the two up in both cases as if it\u2019s some sort of contempt for the proceedings and processes of this Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210fe3700e827455bb17994bbb96e796c\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re triggered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf1fea788f574143b687af134016ea2c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, read it and have a look. Why is it in one language and then the next, but then mixed up in both cases\u2014or are you just confused, as usual? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbbc0e64434f423682fd44ea31e78e27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbbc0e64434f423682fd44ea31e78e27\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, the question was raised yesterday, as well, and where there is a direct quote being used that\u2019s in te reo, you would expect it to remain in te reo in the translated language as it\u2019s a direct quote. It would be odd to have a direct quote quoted\u2014it would no longer be a direct quote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d9d903ec9aa4f1f88685c7a8558f87f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s that in question No. 8\u2014where\u2019s the exact quote in question No.\u00A08? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229842a3c30180444b99cd9f115e9f6f2c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll tell you what: I\u2019m not going to go into a question and answer session on these. I\u2019ve just said that the question is acceptable; we go through them extensively before they come into the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8e749aa4fb741db987754a0f88cbe93\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u00226fe8f14a88ec4dd19f4ab717313460a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fe8f14a88ec4dd19f4ab717313460a1\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: E tautoko ana ia i t\u0101na k\u014Drero \u201Cone of the challenges that they clearly talked to me about\u2014that I agree with in terms of removing the minimum wage exemption\u2014is the fact that a group of New Zealanders, who have significant challenges and would clearly produce less in an hour than someone else, may well be shut out of employment\u201D; m\u0113n\u0101 \u0101e, ka p\u0113hea t\u0101 te \u0101whinatanga utu, te hoatu t\u0101piritanga nei ki ng\u0101 kaituku mahi, e \u0101rahi ki te korenga mahi m\u0101 ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E[Does she stand by her statement that \u201Cone of the challenges that they clearly talked to me about\u2014that I agree with in terms of removing the minimum wage exemption\u2014is the fact that a group of New Zealanders, who have significant challenges and would clearly produce less in an hour than someone else, may well be shut out of employment\u201D; if so, how would a wage supplement that would provide a top-up to employers lead to shutting people out of employment?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00221818bf4bcb9843fdb7e09f6f7ce11289\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221818bf4bcb9843fdb7e09f6f7ce11289\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, the minimum wage exemption supports a small number of severely disabled people\u2014around 900. The majority of people covered by the exemption also receive the supported living payment benefit because they are deemed to be unable to work in the open employment market. The Labour Inspectorate grants these limited exemptions only if reasonable and appropriate, the wage is fair, and the employee agrees. The social enterprises who employ people on this exemption do so to give disabled people social connection and confidence through employment. Many have said publicly that the proposed wage supplement scheme would pressure their operating models and reduce their ability to hire disabled New Zealanders. As I said, these are social enterprises\u2014they deliver a social service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223705ddbe69cb47b4a4d56c3e01854fe1\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister run through, step by step, how the Government topping up wages so that employers are no worse off put jobs at risk for disabled people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae800b2ff4f44fec8e713c5a1f89ba35\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Let me quote from the 2019 Cabinet paper where the wage supplement was proposed, to explain this to the member further: \u201CA submission made by the MoreAble Network noted \u2018Additional funding for a wage supplement would substantially alter their financial model and risk some employers already under financial pressure due to a lack of funding being forced to close\u2019. They also highlighted the perceived risk of a wage supplement resulting in some disabled employees being worse off due to losing benefit eligibility.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b54dd892184f4570b1ededccdc2bc91d\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that she is quoting outdated advice and that the wage supplement that she chose to remove would have looked more like a top-up for employers so that they are no worse off?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229436281acbc341a5a1c38a5f4ef3b819\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: No. The unfortunate reality is the social enterprises who run these employment schemes provided advice to the previous Government that is consistent with their advice to the current Government\u2014that they do not support the wage supplement because it would risk the opportunity for people to be in work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f6434cfb2b749279e3f34e4a995d231\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: How can she stand by that comment when she didn\u2019t consult anyone, including disabled people, as part of the Budget process to prevent disabled people from at least earning the minimum wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022024fa6227a3344cabee71a713b2621b7\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in the House yesterday, there were many opportunities, many visits over many years that I undertook with disabled people, their families, as well as the social enterprises that run these schemes. Unfortunately, the reality is that these social enterprises didn\u2019t support the previous Government and they were very pleased to see the status quo maintained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219331a2ecb1f471da816a02165eeac7e\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is it true that the wage supplement would not have put jobs at risk, and, rather, that cutting the wage supplement was an exercise to cut costs to pay for tax cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c50ec196ea7f4013868d6f712e0f985e\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: No. I don\u2019t think I can make it any clearer. This was not about saving money; this was about saving jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022683012d7bfdf4070bbe8cb653ffc2777\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00221b0c8bbf403240c7a3c9031f32d74997\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b0c8bbf403240c7a3c9031f32d74997\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. Ko t\u0101ku p\u0101tai i t\u0113nei r\u0101 ki te Minita m\u014D ng\u0101 Pir\u012Bhimana o Aotearoa: [My question today is to the Minister for New Zealand Police:] Did he receive reports from Police on the Comancheros or any other gangs and their associates using gun ranges to practise their shooting skills; if so, what did Police report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5d476728259442e94020611667d8bfc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5d476728259442e94020611667d8bfc\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Police)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Police: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fc372efce2b4010bdc202f8b8fc950b\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Hmm, right\u2014[Interruption] What assessment\u2014[Interruption] What assessment did the Minister take before he and other Ministers approved the release of a discussion document that proposes to limit Police oversight of ranges and instead move to a system of self-regulation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229722519364884f1d82e8a7eb729acdfc\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Speaker, I missed the first part of that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277c3885ff69e43f29828900ce9cf3df4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, so did I.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224273ed709aab43f397a44ea67592f612\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What risk assessment did he take before he and other Ministers approved the release of a discussion document that proposes to limit Police oversight of ranges and instead move to a system of self-regulation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ae7551f30414ee3921a832157c05ff5\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Police, I think we have traversed this subject in terms of the level of advice and risk assessments that have been done through the standard legislative process. But I think, to clarify or perhaps elucidate for the member, what has been proposed around the firearms ranges is to remove a duplication of reporting. The concern the member has raised repeatedly is about the sale of ammunition from firearms ranges. That will still be required to be reported, and we have total faith in Minister McKee, in terms of her knowledge in this space, and we are continuing to prioritise firearms safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbabfac03c6d407c9bdfc771f0cec5f6\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I believe\u2014and over to you\u2014that the point the Minister just made was that there is still a requirement for ammunition on ranges to be reported. The Order in Council that took effect on 28 June does exactly that: it no longer requires gun ranges to report the sales of ammunition on a range. So that point, from my understanding, is incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1a165eb7e57497bab30da2ceda8edbe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What is the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2918e2eb9ab46dca98f8edea7064c4c\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: That I want to know\u2014the Minister has made a statement there that, from my understanding\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f65cd808a37e4718a4e27eb206ffe9bb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, you can\u2019t stand up and make a debating point and call it a point of order. Is there a point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eac7716a4a0a4ca48b8b8101a4accb0d\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister was incorrect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281b5da0830864cfb8823d0a4076c0f02\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s not a point of order; it\u2019s a debating statement. I\u2019m warning the member that wasting the House\u2019s time with this stuff is not good. Ask another supplementary and we\u2019ll move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e277dd62b402460c844968476d4b8246\u0022\u003EHon Nicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to that point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285308c42728447ffa25acf3a0c5f043e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, there is no point of order. So you\u2019d be talking just because you want to, and I don\u2019t want to hear from you. Can we have the question, please?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201ae69e17bea4ffe82f2fe1a5f5b3ff1\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffc3d6b9005c4a5d956e558174f9a98c\u0022\u003EHon Nicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a03585880c248dfa3d469bc7c94e143\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve now called a point of order? Can I ask you to make sure it\u2019s a point of order and not a debating point or a rebuttal of a debating point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bafbe097590f4b3899496986b1a92038\u0022\u003EHon Nicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: Certainly, Mr Speaker. The point of order that I wish to make is\u00A0that the question being asked to the Associate Minister on behalf of the Minister of Police should actually be directed at a different Minister. That Minister has no responsibility for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b04c4d861f034f40b10ced45d48598c2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m sorry, but you are a Minister in the Government, and the Government makes the decision about who answers the questions. So that is a terrible condemnation of the Government\u2019s processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faebf14640e44bc5a4679b3d9de09fb4\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d3ef278bf8044dfa4c2864522ea892f\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226717ba0c2a544a64b8e8cf2d227edb5a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It had better be a point of order, because, I\u2019ll tell you what, the fuse is pretty short.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb186ea0fc934b40bfeb6bebd81f170a\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Well, funnily enough, that\u2019s precisely the topic, Mr Speaker. I\u00A0think\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ef5d31c614b41e09b303d3931a5b272\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I didn\u2019t hear that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a0ceff2f5c04515b113938644dc25a5\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Funnily enough, that\u2019s precisely the topic. I don\u2019t think a member who in good faith stands up to raise a point of order should be told by you, \u201CI don\u2019t want to hear from you.\u201D I think we need higher standards of respect in this House, starting from you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218a359bb20e4418cb83c9ca906c73d95\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll tell you what, that is not an unusual comment to be made from the Chair to members in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022068444054ba342c5a64a7186a5b5ea78\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware of Police advice on Nicole McKee\u2019s proposed gun range changes, \u201CWe need to strengthen gang, criminal, and terrorist type risks that this repeal will cause\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee2d3e38d3bc40fca21c2b1ce5d0ba5d\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Police, yes, I am aware of the advice received from Police, and, as stated repeatedly, our priority is ensuring that gun safety is at the core of all decisions that this Government makes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0f6804e87fb40aeb23a42c18e10a3ef\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware of Police advice on the changes already made to gun ranges that highlight a loophole created where criminals can now purchase ammunition with no records being kept; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223b859a3ed514d6fa112cbc0946d80f1\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: As alluded to in my previous answer, to sell ammunition from a firearms range, they have to be an incorporated society. If they are an incorporated society, they must still report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e090ce8953694fe3a3a413088e0db55f\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How does he explain himself to front-line officers and their families when we have, potentially, guns being used by gangs on ranges, he has stood silent as Nicole McKee has removed Police oversight of gun ranges as well as ammunition sales, and has taken no action when his own Police advisers have repeatedly raised the alarm about the risks of gangs and gang members and criminals practising on gang ranges and accessing ammunition?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec40c022b87c43dd9796d9f4badbf332\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The first answer that member got was \u201CNo.\u201D Then, in this question, she premises it on the basis of potential gangs on ranges. Now, if that is the very basis of her question, that is a waste of Parliament\u2019s time. Potential\u2014it either did\u00A0happen or didn\u2019t happen, and she was told on question No. 1 that it didn\u2019t happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b76f13935dd4f5db737cfcb94306b8c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that. Does the Minister have any response to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022feb2e3ca-4ad3-4c7c-9958-b10d28c83bc8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226506f17eedf54d0c9841da5640ae1fbf\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Mr Speaker, and I think the member has highlighted to this House why our gun legislation was in such disarray. An airsoft range is not a firearms range, and there has been no reporting of the fact that any Comanchero gangs\u2014there has been no reporting of firearms ranges. And, as I have stated in the primary answer, the Minister has not received any advice on the reporting of use of firearms ranges and that the follow-on, as reported, was that private farmland was used for live firing, as that was reported in the media. Further to this, this matter is before the courts at the moment, and it would be inappropriate to expand further on the information on this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002208717ba88db94f5a87a4d9c781bc1c40\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Women\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca30232b82b4465bb0a6a4a8be2fa51d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca30232b82b4465bb0a6a4a8be2fa51d\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Women: How is the Government seeking to improve the lives of New Zealand women and girls?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u00229b1be22e59c647fe92b4ea41d85045f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b1be22e59c647fe92b4ea41d85045f5\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Acting Minister for Women):\u003C/span\u003E As we celebrate New Zealand becoming the first nation in the world to give women the right to vote on this day in 1893, I\u2019m pleased to say that, 131 years later, our Government is very focused on improving the lives of women and girls. Alongside businesses, we\u2019re prioritising the delivery of a gender pay gap calculation tool to help shine a light on equal pay, we\u2019re increasing paid parental leave, and we have introduced the FamilyBoost payment to help meet the cost of early childhood education. Other key areas of focus for this Government include economic independence, increasing representation at all levels of leadership, educational attainment, and better health outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222300b306764e4556bd15d807409e2f56\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to improve health outcomes for women and girls?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf3e45dd11d5465fa5ba5067c2ede1c4\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Earlier this year, we announced that free breast cancer screening will be extended to women aged 70 to 74. This will mean around 120,000 more women will be eligible for screening every two years. This change is expected to save up to 65 lives a year. This is in addition to a $6.3 billion funding boost to Pharmac over the next four years to widen access to important and lifesaving medicines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221007178d5d543cd960910203c1a953a\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government helping to protect women?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b40b4f287636486aab1372f281adf953\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to making New Zealand a safer place for everyone by restoring law and order, our Government is taking some specific actions to help protect women and girls. The Ministry for Women is working with Netsafe to create a support tool kit for workplaces who are supporting women in leadership positions, particularly in the public eye. We have committed to introducing legislation to criminalise stalking because we know that women are disproportionately impacted by this. It is a terrifying crime for victims that nobody should have to endure and we are sending a very\u00A0clear message that it will not be tolerated in New Zealand, nor will any violence against women.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a3fbe77854d4a6d8f22dc80c1ec9cb9\u0022\u003ECushla Tangaere-Manuel\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. Ko taku p\u0101tai kei roto i te reo M\u0101ori. Ki te whakaaro t\u0101tou m\u014D te kaupapa e k\u012Bia nei \u201Cmana wahine kaupapa inquiries\u201D kei runga i te wh\u0101rangi ipurangi o te Manat\u016B Wahine, he aha ng\u0101 mahi a t\u0113nei K\u0101wanatanga ki te whakapiki i te ora o ng\u0101 w\u0101hine me ng\u0101 k\u014Dtiro M\u0101ori? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ad7ccb58-34d9-4340-9b9d-6523bc4dda32\u0022\u003E[Thank you to the Speaker of the House. My question is in the M\u0101ori language. If we think about the initiative known as \u201Cmana wahine kaupapa inquiries\u201D on the webpage of the Ministry for Women, what are this Government\u2019s actions to increase the health of M\u0101ori women and girls?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9fa442df9504dab95be4bffd43ced70\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I outlined, some of the work that the Ministry for Women is doing around protecting women, about lifting educational attainment, that is for women equally, whether they are M\u0101ori, non-M\u0101ori, or any other ethnicity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a5deee47bbf48dc90126ec1840e6388\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: How does shutting down the pay equity task force and stopping work on pay transparency improve the lives of New Zealand women and girls?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f16ecfc744a046018c7e4fac4c3561f4\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said very clearly, we are looking at practical solutions, like the gender pay calculation tool, that make a difference today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228ba11b3f-65ea-4f86-92e4-fe78ea522647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a9ea7780da54cb59b35bcbf1bc3e96c\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: What work is the Government doing to reduce the gender pay gap for women?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222708f051c68048c98ae1c8ef2e3dbf00\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: In June, we announced the Government is working alongside businesses to develop a gender pay gap calculation tool, which will help ensure that women are being paid fairly. Under the previous National Government, the gender pay gap decreased from 12 percent to 9.7 percent in 2017. Unfortunately, since 2017, it has only moved down to an 8.2 percent gap. We have a strong history of reducing the gender pay gap in New Zealand, and our Government\u2019s track record clearly shows that we are a party that is backing New Zealand women to succeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002276ace6c8dcc447ec86b9270161750a62\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Foreign Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002210532f6f95cf47728eae5ad90aa122a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210532f6f95cf47728eae5ad90aa122a1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Does the Government believe that the Israeli deadly sabotage by remotely detonated communication devices in Lebanon was wrong; if so, is this more evidence that his Government should recognise Palestine without further delay in support of rules-based order so that a wider war in the Middle East can be avoided?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002209241a2428e248c4a5eb8c771e851cb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209241a2428e248c4a5eb8c771e851cb9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E It would be inappropriate for me to comment on the specifics of these particular incidents while the details are still being established, but New Zealand is deeply concerned by any and all of the actions in the Middle East which contribute to an escalation of violence and instability. We repeat our call on all parties to exercise restraint to avoid a wider war.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c6a91344ffa48848ae7d8005494fdf7\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: When will the New Zealand Government recognise Palestine\u2014not Hamas\u2014given that many months ago, he said it was a question of when, not if, and, since then, Israel has resisted calls for a ceasefire, perpetuating the war the Minister himself has called an utter catastrophe, which has turned Gaza into a wasteland, and many other countries, including Ireland, Spain, and Norway have recognised Palestine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f0f05d770f8411cbed2ec16b11c717e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for that question because just overnight, on the question of Palestinian recognition, New Zealand voted to support a UN General Assembly resolution affirming our longstanding position that Israel\u2019s presence in the occupied Palestine territories is unlawful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022444900a03e064010a4e3733ba0655eb3\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. My question wasn\u2019t about the legality or otherwise of the occupation of the West Bank; it was the recognition of Palestine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ae476a2bb8c4cf2b47ef06a7356fbaf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps if you could ask the question again, without losing any of your other questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256aec12fdc904b82aebd92b2c08fbfbb\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. When will the New Zealand Government recognise Palestine\u2014not Hamas\u2014given that many months ago, he said it was a question of when, not if, and, since then, Israel has resisted calls for a ceasefire, perpetuating the war the Minister himself has called an utter catastrophe, which has turned Gaza into a wasteland, and many other countries, including Ireland, Spain, and Norway have recognised Palestine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e99aad18080945b0b461a7345267c228\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reason why the overnight resolution that New Zealand voted for was mentioned is because it fundamentally signals our strong support for the two-State solution and an independent Palestine. It is a matter of when, not if, New Zealand will recognise Palestine Statehood, but to say, as some have said, that it must be\u00A0evacuated in the space of one year\u2014these unrealistic statements might be a sop to some people\u2019s consciences, but people out there want real help, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re trying to give them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff8374dc011849e6ba977b46aa71212a\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Will he now instruct the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade to\u00A0intervene in the South African actions before the International Court of Justice (ICJ) concerning the war, as New Zealand did in the ICJ proceeding concerning Ukraine and\u00A0Russia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022873709f475234405963fd4981075029e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: If the member had signalled that, I\u2019d have come with a prepared answer, and I haven\u2019t. I\u2019ll get back to him on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f87dc80f0424b529e463b68f677fe6f\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Did he express any concern that US military aid is fuelling the war in Gaza when he recently met with US Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022565fa321d1e642649f79c7dfb636b4e3\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve missed one word you said there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a5642e5bd0a456eb70d72b2a49f5640\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise for that. Did he express any concern that US military aid is fuelling the war in Gaza when he recently met with US Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227258e5848b274440909c31f5a2b8bfad\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that this conversation was private; nevertheless, those who are engaging in the provision of armaments\u2014and all manner of countries are\u2014yes, that was part of our subject. But it is not just one country\u2014what about the others that are involved as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022344a25a845ae4a6a9989f5ba9e05e539\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept Israel has the right to defend itself from constant rocket and drone attack by Hezbollah across its northern border with Lebanon that\u2019s displaced 60,000 civilians, killed a dozen children playing soccer, and what limits, if any, does the Minister consider should apply to small democracies like Israel defending itself from constant terror attack?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221288391f127a4f8884b665fcf8195079\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I thank the member for his question. New Zealand recognises Israel\u2019s right to defend itself, but Israel must respect international law, including international humanitarian law, and the price of defeating Hamas or others cannot be the continuous suffering of so many Palestinian civilians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ee89f49b70c40949a859c83c51f122d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Will he undertake to this House that when he\u2019s in New York next week, he will express New Zealand\u2019s concern, either in the UN or directly to the US, that US military aid is fuelling the war in Gaza and undermining wider support for the rules-based order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d4b86a1d60e4f819931c71646a84632\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Let me tell the member that I\u2019ve yet to write the speech, but if we were to even mention one country involved, we\u2019d mention all those involved and not just pick on one and try and excuse our conscience that way. I don\u2019t think that in any way advances the sincerity of New Zealand\u2019s position.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f6cfaeb9b8c431895bd5442e5adac02\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Mental Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u002232743b5ca2de48d581eb8132a8e17faa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232743b5ca2de48d581eb8132a8e17faa\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Mental Health: What recent announcements has he made regarding the roll-out of a school-based mental health wellbeing programme in the Hawke\u2019s Bay and Tair\u0101whiti regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022 data-id=\u00220b7319a897fa4e9380fc59c2bd69f82a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b7319a897fa4e9380fc59c2bd69f82a\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E I was pleased to have recently announced in Napier that the Government has committed to the sustainable funding and roll-out of school-based mental health support in the Hawke\u2019s Bay and Tair\u0101whiti regions. Mana Ake is a school-based mental wellbeing programme that, following Cyclone Gabrielle, will help primary and intermediate - aged school children learn skills such as coping with change, managing emotions, building positive relationships, and overcoming grief and loss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c0368e6e1044a59acdfdbab555cff17\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: How will this announcement benefit young people in Hawke\u2019s Bay and Tair\u0101whiti?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff543b046d8a42008064e38797d9dd34\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a good question. I\u2019m committed to increasing access to mental health and addiction support. I\u2019m pleased that once this programme is fully rolled out, around 25,500 students across more than 130 primary and intermediate schools across the Hawke\u2019s Bay region will receive school-based mental health support. I\u2019m of the opinion that one of the key barriers to accessing timely mental health support is our workforce, and that is why, as the Minister for Mental Health, I\u2019m committed to growing the workforce. This programme offers a diverse workforce, including a mix of clinical and non-clinical staff such as psychologists, social workers, counsellors, teachers, and peer support workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242cba6802ad945628462c5a359ded877\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: How do programmes like Mana Ake deliver better mental health outcomes for young people in need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb07cf2a6c13455c815d4fc413fba15d\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Strengthening the focus on prevention and early intervention is one of my key priorities. We know that getting in early gives the best opportunity. School-based mental health programmes such as Mana Ake help our young people to build resilience and coping strategies and help set up young New Zealanders to maintain better mental wellbeing throughout their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285a867dd31a84eca9bc10dae8699dfcb\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government needing to invest in this programme when it was only set up last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223834c872ea564ea18b212fc0ff44aa55\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Good question. This programme was announced in May last year without any sustainable funding, and faced being wound back and stopped by December if further funding was not found. The Government has committed to sustainable funding for the programme which will ensure these crucial services remain intact and available for young people needing mental wellbeing support. With the trauma that Cyclone Gabrielle and other weather-related events have inflicted on these communities, it beggars belief that these services were announced by the last Government with no funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228240f31d51bd4c1daf8de97f6acb555e\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Why hadn\u2019t he already personally stepped in to stop the hiring freeze impacting the mental health front line, as he said he would yesterday, when there has already been widespread reporting and evidence of a hiring freeze on mental health nurses in Southland, hospital commissioning and specialist services, and in psychiatry? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ee649aea-c6fa-4610-9fcf-5c4bb2d3cd33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e1e778474604c5885017530ac6881e0\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it\u2019s very clear: people shouldn\u2019t believe Ingrid Leary\u2019s comms points.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a78932aba40248a8b387bf9bf1deb4c6\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I think you probably anticipate my point of order. I think that the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220eafa3be4eaa424b84463376a018da14\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I can\u2019t. I\u2019m waiting with bated breath.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3ae5b43c2e54f7bb2395f994f401482\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: The member has implied that I have been dishonest, and I think that is, under Speaker\u2019s ruling\u2014[Colleague points to Speaker\u2019s Ruling] Thank you. Sorry, I can\u2019t read it. What is it? Ha, ha!\u201443/4, and I think he should withdraw and apologise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c51e3eba77342b8ac203a963b22f342\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019re dealing with matters around this at the present time. I can let you know that the statement was not a direct questioning of the member. It was, effectively, an instruction to other people. But I will look at it further and I always take advice. [Receives advice] Yeah, good, well, I\u2019m not sure what that means. So can I undertake, to the member, to have a look at it and come back on Tuesday. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d78dfc056444f7fa1ac8347ccb986f5\u0022\u003EGangs Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228d78dfc056444f7fa1ac8347ccb986f5\u0022\u003ESentencing Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022732875ab6f4b4946948f48c4f32a871d\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022eab026de727545f69f0ef9d37559fa02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eab026de727545f69f0ef9d37559fa02\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Gangs Bill and the Sentencing Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad3ed1c1c3af47f3944e08e13a82ce37\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the parliamentary website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022056c3e0ac136438ea51aa8eb0601d246\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Gangs Bill and the Sentencing Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EUntil the committee of the whole House stage, these bills were progressed through the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill. This is one of the headline pieces of work that came\u00A0out of the National Party election manifesto, and I\u2019m pleased to be bringing it to this final stage of the House, and I acknowledge all the hard work that has got us to this point, including by the criminal justice policy team and by the Parliamentary Counsel Office drafters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI want to expend my thanks to the Justice Committee and its chair, James Meager, for their thorough consideration of the bill following public submissions and for the advice they gave to refine and strengthen the legislation. The bill is one part of our plan to restore law and order in this country because New Zealanders deserve to feel safe in their communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EGang membership has increased by 51 percent over the past five years, alongside violent crime increasing by 33 percent. We need a firmer response. Gangs peddle misery and intimidation throughout our communities, and this Government is determined to give police and the courts the powers they need to deal with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EJust one in every 400 New Zealanders are identified as gang members, yet they are linked to nearly one in five serious violent crime offences and around one in five homicides, around one in four kidnapping and abductions, and one in four of all crimes caused by illicit drug offences. A very small section of our society is associated with and linked to a very significant part of the overall serious violent crime in our communities. Let\u2019s get real about the impact of gangs in our community. They are causing mayhem on our streets and no effort to reduce serious crime will succeed unless we make progress against gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe passage of these bills will mean the implementation of four new policies to target gangs. First, the Gangs Bill introduces a comprehensive gang insignia ban outlawing the display of gang patches in public places at all times. This extends the current ban, which applies only to Government premises and will help diminish the status of gangs and reduce the fear and intimidation that patches cause in our community. Since the bill was introduced, I\u2019ve worked to strengthen this policy so that the justice system can effectively respond to anyone who repeatedly defies the patch ban. If an offender is convicted three times within five years, a court order will be made against them, banning them from owning any gang insignia for the next five years and preventing them from continuing to reoffend. It will be uncomfortable for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ESecondly, the bill creates a new dispersal power which police can use to stop gang members from gathering in public. A dispersal notice will require the group to leave an area and not associate in public for seven days. This tool will enable the police to disrupt gatherings that can escalate into criminal behaviour. Gangs gather in public places in order to create fear in our communities and to intimidate law-abiding Kiwis. Time and again, we\u2019ve seen criminal gangs block roads, harass the public, and disrupt the lives of ordinary citizens going about their business peacefully. The public should no longer have to put up with this sort of behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003ETo ensure the safety of officers, police can issue the dispersal notice at the time of the gathering or the police can decide it would be more appropriate to issue the notice at a later time. The notice will apply for the next seven days, preventing the group from reconvening again in public. We recognise there needs to be exemptions, and the dispersal notice will not apply to public meetings of immediate family members or where people need to associate for lawful purposes such as work, education, or healthcare. There\u2019s also an ability to apply to the Commissioner of Police for an exemption for other lawful purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe third thing the bill does is create non-consorting orders. This order is issued by the court and will require specified people not to associate or communicate for three years. Crimes like the importation and sale of illegal drugs, of course, require coordination and planning. Police often know exactly who the criminals are but are powerless to prevent them from planning and committing these crimes before it\u2019s too late. We believe the police should be able to get on and act on the intelligence they have and apply to the court to stop known gang offenders from associating or communicating with one another, to keep our communities safe. As with dispersal notices, our bill recognises that some association or communication may be required for lawful purposes. Exemptions are provided for immediate family and lawful purposes such as work, education, and healthcare. The court can also consider applications for exemptions for other lawful purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe Sentencing Amendment Act will allow courts to more easily consider a person\u2019s gang membership when sentencing them for crime. This will ensure the courts are not unduly limited in using gang membership as an aggravating factor. I expect this will lead to tougher sentences for gang members and send a strong message that the unlawful activities of gangs will not be tolerated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s putting gang members on notice. Our message to them is clear: your behaviour is not tolerated and Parliament is determined to give police extra tools to disrupt your illegal activities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EI look forward to the commencement of this bill in November so that law-abiding Kiwis can enjoy the summer with less risk of violent crime, drug dealing, and general fear, disruption, and intimidation, which gangs have gotten away with peddling for far too long. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00229334926969654dae8f53e76e651b0152\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229334926969654dae8f53e76e651b0152\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Labour opposes this bill for a number of reasons, but the most invidious part of this bill\u2014apart from the way in which it progressed through this House\u2014is the prohibition on a person having gang insignia in a private residence, and I really want to touch on that today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe idea of a private residence being a particular sanctuary that should only be invaded by the State in the most necessary of circumstances is one of the most longstanding principles of our law. It was in 1604 that the famous quote was said by Lord Justice Coke, \u201CThe house of every one is to him as his castle and fortress\u201D\u2014400 years ago. That theory, that principle, that fundamental constitutional principle, has flowed through many jurisdictions. It was in 1890 that the Justice of the US Supreme Court said, \u201CThe right to be let alone [is] the most comprehensive of rights, and the most valued by civilised [people].\u201D To put it in more plain language: it was Mrs Patrick Campbell, actual name Beatrice Rose Stella, who said \u201CI don\u2019t care what they do, as long as they don\u2019t do it in the street and scare the horses.\u201D\u2014a friend of Oscar Wilde. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, that captures it, right? This is actually about what goes on in the street and what goes on in private. We get the intimidation in public places issue; it\u2019s real. We agree that it needs to be addressed, but no one is intimidated by a gang patch in someone\u2019s top drawer. Or to use a more antipodean reference, Darryl Kerrigan: \u201CIt\u2019s not a house, it\u2019s a home. A man\u2019s home is his castle.\u201D Great legal document, the movie The Castle\u2014a little bit of levity but it\u2019s a serious point that what we have here is a highly invasive right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ETo hear the Minister stand up in question time today and say with a straight face that he hadn\u2019t talked to the Attorney-General about this invasion of fundamental rights\u2014he should hang his head. I hope the Attorney-General raises it with him. There is a document here dated 7 March which says, \u201CMake sure this briefing is shared with the Attorney-General.\u201D Even though the document says to share it, he hasn\u2019t talked to her about it. I find that a dereliction of this Minister\u2019s duty. He should be ashamed of himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bdbd4861215481ab4e9e4c8c9e1b714\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: She can read.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb0640af51c64c8c87ae06a600b67815\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t be too sure. That\u2019s the fundamental objection to this bill. And let\u2019s just be clear: the Minister knows full well what\u2019s wrong with this, because he had a briefing in 2023. He hasn\u2019t given it to me yet\u2014but, hopefully, he will soon\u2014but it\u2019s referred to where it says, \u201CPrevious advice outlined particular concerns of the bespoke search power.\u201D That is to say, the ability to enter someone\u2019s home and look for a gang patch, even though they haven\u2019t worn it in an intimidating manner outside. Then in the footnote, just tucked away in the footnote, it says this: \u201CIt would represent a shift in the purpose of searches that is inconsistent with the rule of law, moving them away from being tools for collecting evidence of criminal offending.\u201D That\u2019s right, because the police will use the power to enter someone\u2019s home to look for a gang patch to give it a shakedown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe document itself again\u2014that very same document, and I\u2019m reading from a briefing of the Ministry of Justice of 7 June 2024\u2014makes it clear what the dangers are. If you\u2019re pursuing an offence\u2014someone\u2019s got a firearm, they\u2019ve run into a house, then you\u2019re looking for that firearm\u2014but if you\u2019re just wondering whether they\u2019ve got a gang patch that they\u2019re not entitled to, you\u2019re going to shake down the entire house. And you know\u00A0what? You might find some other stuff too. That is a recipe for abuse of power. That\u2019s what the Ministry of Justice is saying there. That Minister of Justice, his job is to protect rights and to not give the Minister of Police and the police everything they ask for, because they ask for a lot. He has just buckled, and what we see\u2014without the Attorney-General having been consulted by him\u2014is a real and significant erosion of rights in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI know that a lot of people will say, \u201CIt\u2019s OK, it\u2019s only gang members.\u201D Well, there\u2019s two things to say about that. Human rights are called human rights because they\u2019re universal, and we\u2019ve got to be very cautious about saying, \u201CWell, we don\u2019t like that group of people. They\u2019re not the kind of members of society I like, so they shouldn\u2019t enjoy the same rights as everyone else.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe second thing I\u2019ve got to say about that is that it\u2019s not just those people, because those people live in houses with others, other people who may not even know that the order\u2019s in place. Let\u2019s be honest, these searches are not conducted on notice at 3 o\u2019clock in the afternoon. They\u2019re conducted without notice, and if it\u2019s a gang house, it won\u2019t be one officer and it won\u2019t be two officers; it will be many officers, because that\u2019s what you have to do when you\u2019re dealing with risky situations. It says, \u201CThis will come at a high cost to wh\u0101nau and communities in which gang members reside. Searches can be intrusive, disruptive, and traumatic for children and other wh\u0101nau who reside with the person who is subject to the search.\u201D That\u2019s what\u2019s going to happen. Whilst some of our homes may be our castles, there\u2019s a whole section of our community where they now are not, where that fundamental principle of the sanctity of a private residence has been utterly undercut and undermined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWe get search, right? A right to search, sometimes without a warrant, is needed. But what is the proportionality here? What is the risk of someone\u2019s gang insignia\u2014a bandana, a ring, a jacket\u2014sitting in a wardrobe? Where is the harm? Where is the victim? There isn\u2019t one. There\u2019s no harm and no victim. It\u2019s essentially a tool for harassment of gang members so that they give it up. Now, I get that we don\u2019t want gang membership\u2014that\u2019s all good\u2014but this kind of invasion that intrudes into other people\u2019s spaces is just an absolute overreach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOne other thing: we think we\u2019ve got this gang member, this bad person, and we\u2019re looking for that person\u2019s gang patch. Oh, no, it just so happens that the nephew is staying in the spare room and the nephew has gang connections. It\u2019s not even the same gang. So, by association, because uncle has extended hospitality to his nephew and his nephew has gang connections, by that association, by giving shelter to that other person who\u2019s a member of a gang, you\u2019re guilty. That is frankly unbelievable. It\u2019s so easy to dismiss this by saying, \u201CThey\u2019re gang members\u201D, but the fact of the matter is that gang members belong to communities and the communities here are harmed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI haven\u2019t touched on so many other points in respect of this bill, and I\u2019ll leave those to my colleagues who are more than able to talk about them, but the bill itself is not workable. I mean, these dispersal notices\u2014the idea that we\u2019re going to disperse gang members and email them their notices by way of service is frankly laughable. This bill is largely window dressing, and the idea that a flag on a boat is prohibited but a flag on a house is not is incoherent. This bill is so poorly put together, so unprincipled, that it makes no sense. Yes, we\u2019ve got to do something about gangs, but addressing the causes and harms of gangs is what we should be doing. Waving our hands and making noises about gangs in this kind of offensive way serves no purpose whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002276578bef3afd4559bdbe6584255c7a3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276578bef3afd4559bdbe6584255c7a3d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before the last speaker I omitted to say the question is that the motion be agreed to. The question is that the motion be agreed to, and I call Tamatha Paul.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u002270a7c4a9a8f64913a67504984a28e29f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270a7c4a9a8f64913a67504984a28e29f\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to make our thoughts known about the Gangs Bill. What I want people to understand about this bill and about the Government\u2019s attack on gangs is that it is simply a marketing exercise. It is a PR strategy to look tough on crime but does nothing to make our communities tangibly safer. It does nothing to address the reasons why people\u00A0join gangs in the first place, and does nothing to reduce people\u2019s reasons as to why they join gangs. It will not increase public safety, but it will result in people being put into prison, and for longer, and to increase the length of those sentences due to their affiliations with gangs. The main point that we want to make, and the main point that recent research and evidence has made over the years, is we cannot arrest our way out of the gang problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s start with who are in gangs in the first place, because that\u2019s something that we never talk about in this House. The contributing factors to people joining gangs in the first place are simple\u2014three things: poverty, trauma, and colonisation. The reason that I say that is because many people join gangs because they genuinely believe that that is their only pathway towards having any money. Those who join gangs often come from the most highly deprived communities where there aren\u2019t job opportunities, where the only opportunity that you have is actually to be on the benefit because there are no jobs in those communities. If you\u2019re faced with the task of having to put food on the table and pay your bills, sometimes the only option you might have is to join a gang. You need only to watch Dave Letele\u2019s series on gangs, which is on TVNZ for free, where he talks to gang members and often they talk about the driving factor that poverty played in them joining gangs in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThe second reason that people are in gangs is due to the trauma and the abuse that they experienced as children. We know that because 80 to 90 percent of gang members experienced abuse in State care. We know that because we had the report\u2014the largest royal commission inquiry in the history of this country\u2014looking into abuse in State care that said that 80 to 90 percent of those gang members have experienced harm at the hands of the State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThe other reason that people join gangs is, of course, the impacts of colonisation. The reason that I say that is because 75 percent of gang members are M\u0101ori. We understand the drivers of gang membership: it\u2019s poverty, it\u2019s trauma, and it\u2019s the impacts of colonisation. That is backed up in the regulatory impact statement on this bill, and I want to read a quote: \u201CA significant portion of gang members have also been victims of violence, poverty, and neglect, including family violence, intimate partner violence, and drug or alcohol abuse. While these elements exist in all communities, gangs serve as a concentration zone for individuals with a higher risk of exhibiting anti-social behaviour. These individuals tend to live in the most deprived communities and have high rates of unemployment.\u201D We need to look at the reasons why people feel that they need to join gangs in the first place. If we want to reduce people joining gangs in the first place, if we want to reduce that gang membership, then we have to look at the reasons why people join them in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ENow, the other reason that we don\u2019t support this bill is because it completely ignores people\u2019s human rights. I completely agree with my colleague the Hon Dr Duncan Webb that human rights are afforded to people by virtue of being human beings. Just because you are a gang member or just because you\u2019re in prison or just because this House has designated you as being less worthy of human rights\u2014you are still entitled to your human rights. This bill completely flouts human rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about how it does that. The freedom of expression: when has it ever been acceptable\u2014and I think this is good for the ACT Party to listen to this, as a party that claims to champion human rights and the freedom of expression and the freedom of speech\u2014for the Government to tell people what they can and can\u2019t wear? There\u2019s no precedent for that, yet this one creates that. The freedom of peaceful assembly: if there are a group of people who are together, gang members or not, if they\u2019re not committing a crime, then why can\u2019t they be together in a public place? Again, the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure. This bill means that more people will be subject to unfair and unreasonable searches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ENow, you look at some of the changes that have been made to this bill throughout the process, like clause 8A, which talks about the possession of gang insignia and simply possessing a patch within your home. That is a massive Government overreach for the Government to determine what you can and can\u2019t have in your home. That has nothing to do with public safety. How are the public even meant to be intimidated by something that they can\u2019t even see and are not even impacted by?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EThis bill, in my eyes, is about persecuting M\u0101ori, because not all gangs have been treated equally in this bill. We just heard about that at question time: what about white supremacists? What about swastikas? What about other white supremacist symbols? They haven\u2019t been prohibited as part of this bill, but they cause fear and intimidation. Where\u2019s their mention in this bill? There is none, because they\u2019re not mentioned in the gang list as part of this bill, and the gang insignia doesn\u2019t include some of the most offensive symbols in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EI want to mention something that was in the regulatory impact statement on this bill, again, and the advice on this bill says, \u201CTargeting gangs will affect M\u0101ori and their wh\u0101nau the most \u2026 As is reflected in the research, gang members are disproportionately young, male, live in more deprived communities, and as noted in the overview three-quarters of those on the National Gang List are M\u0101ori. Any policies that impact gangs will therefore disproportionately impact M\u0101ori.\u201D We know that international application of some of the powers in this bill\u2014for example, the non-consorting orders\u2014have been used disproportionately against young indigenous people, as I have made that point repeatedly throughout this bill process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re worried about the police\u2019s ability to actually implement this bill, but we\u2019re also worried about the police\u2019s ability to be able to distinguish what is gang insignia and what isn\u2019t gang insignia. I made this point earlier this morning: if they see a bulldog, as associated with the Mongrel Mob, but it\u2019s actually a Canterbury Bulldogs T-shirt, are they going to think that that\u2019s a gang insignia? If they, say, see a fist, which is associated with Black Power, are they going to think that that is a gang insignia when it could be something completely innocent and unrelated such as a Black Lives Matter T-shirt or a workers\u2019 rights T-shirt? If they see a skull on a T-shirt and that person is M\u0101ori, could they assume that that was a Head Hunters logo? We feel like the bill hasn\u2019t been clear enough about what constitutes gang insignia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003ETo summarise, we need to stop treating lawmaking as a PR exercise. If the Government is serious about reducing gang membership, they need to look at the research and the evidence as to who makes up gang members and what the drivers of that membership are and address those, as opposed to having this bill, which will only result in more people being in prison\u2014more wasted human potential\u2014and which will not make our communities any safer. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u00220c8444ed17294b7b8b5211b9f843449b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c8444ed17294b7b8b5211b9f843449b\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I always enjoy the opportunity to debate these sorts of issues in the House as we come now to the third reading of the gangs legislation bill and Sentencing Amendment Bill. Many questions I actually want to pose to the Opposition members. The Green member was talking about M\u0101oridom and the suffering that happens therein by virtue of association with gangs. M\u0101ori by population make up a million people in New Zealand\u2014a million; I\u2019ve just googled the stats\u2014so, essentially, just close to one-fifth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EBy virtue of the gang numbers as quickly as I could find it on dear old Google, there\u2019s 5,000 of those that are M\u0101ori and disproportionately M\u0101ori women, not M\u0101ori men. Fifty-three percent of M\u0101ori men are in prison\u201453 percent of those that are in prison are M\u0101ori men, I beg your pardon; 67 percent of women. A million New Zealanders that happen to be M\u0101ori are not in prison. I think we\u2019re having an ideological conversation here today about breaking the law, intimidating law-abiding New Zealanders who just want to go about their daily lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ENow, I live in Northland, quite often venture into the Far North\u2014awesome place. I spend a bit of time in Kaikohe\u2014at certain times of the day that\u2019s a pretty scary proposition for certain people because there is a significant gang presence. Please, I ask this House to indulge in common sense. For a lot of New Zealanders, that is frightening. By virtue of the nature of being in a gang, we can have a wider conversation about the societal drivers of young M\u0101ori men disproportionately drawing down on wanting to be in a gang. We understand what they are; the member rightly pointed it out: poor employment, domestic violence perpetrated often against them. But why are we not talking about the victims of crime? It\u2019s so often, to the member\u2019s remarks about M\u0101ori and M\u0101oridom\u2014if I pronounce it correctly\u2014the victims are disproportionately M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EGo to some of our poorest regions in New Zealand who have the very issues that the member raised\u2014poor employment, job losses, fractured employment at the very best, a lot of issues with domestic violence, a lot of issues with poor policing by virtue of resources; the myriad of reasons that we find ourselves in societal decline in these areas where gangs have run amok\u2014I don\u2019t think, as we pass this legislation into law, that anyone worth their salt can genuinely come into this House and say that we don\u2019t have a gang problem. We\u2019ve got a gang problem. We\u2019ve got a problem with some of our young people who happen to be M\u0101ori choosing that as a pathway to a future. That is a nonsense. I don\u2019t pick winners and losers based on race; I pick people. They either want to be in there or they don\u2019t. They break the law or they don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EWe have a prison system that reconciles those that have broken the law and those that haven\u2019t. Yes, the member makes some very salient remarks about the societal drivers of gang membership and joining them, but let\u2019s be real here: there\u2019s a million M\u0101ori people and overwhelmingly they\u2019re not in gangs. They\u2019re bloody good people going about their lives, adding to New Zealand society, the tax take, the overall wellbeing of New Zealand as a whole. They\u2019re not gang members, they\u2019re not out intimidating people on motorbikes, flipping the bird, and ultimately making people\u2019s life pretty miserable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a better opportunity and it is employment. Let\u2019s find these people jobs. Let\u2019s get our young M\u0101ori men and women in schools\u2014keep them in schools. We can have a wider conversation around that. But this bill, to do with gangs, is addressing the core drivers of gang intimidation. I think, at risk of over-litigating the point, this bill is addressing that runaway problem and the victims of crime and the victims\u2014and the dear old New Zealander that just wants to go about their daily lives without being intimidated. That includes the million M\u0101ori people that aren\u2019t part of any sort of gang affiliation. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022 data-id=\u0022b877c68658a34c8cb1e392b45c6692a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b877c68658a34c8cb1e392b45c6692a4\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Gangs Bill and the Sentencing Amendment Bill. Firstly, I\u2019d just like to speak on the Sentencing Amendment Bill. It has always been New Zealand First\u2019s policy to see it as an aggravating factor to be a gang member while you\u2019re being sentenced, so today seeing that implemented is something that we have campaigned on and is now being implemented into legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EThis also sends a strong message to gang members that we\u2019re serious about cracking down on gang numbers. It gives police the tools that they need to deal with gang behaviour. The other side of the House doesn\u2019t believe that is a problem, but intimidation by gangs is a serious matter, and we heard through the election campaign how people are fed up being fearful of gang behaviour, how they are feeling unsafe in their communities and while they\u2019re at home and, when they go out to participate in public, are having gangs around\u2014their intimidating behaviour is absolutely unbearable for people, it is harmful, and it\u2019s causing misery in our communities. This bill actually does something about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also about the broader impacts of gangs and the gangs\u2019 crimes\u2014they\u2019re bringing in drugs, the crime that they\u2019re causing in our communities. It is about the behaviour of gang members, and it is about their involvement in organised crime. This is the important part to this: in 2017, there were just over 5,000 registered gang members; by 2023, we had over 8,600 members, a 50 percent increase\u2014a 50 percent increase\u2014because of that side of the House. That side of the House failed to keep gangs under control. They poured millions of dollars\u2014taxpayers\u2019 dollars\u2014and gave it to gangs. Their way of fixing gang behaviour was to give them money. No wonder people were joining gangs, because it was a free money tree.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003ERestoring law and order is about this side of the House and this Government\u2014and New Zealand First will restore law and order. It is about gang patches and banning those gang patches. It is about dispersal notices and giving the tools to police to actually move gang members on. It\u2019s also about non-association powers, to actually say to gang members, \u201CYou are not associating with each other.\u201D\u2014to actually stop it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003EWhat I want to come back to is something that was said in the House in the second reading. It was asked, \u201CWho would you rather be in a dark alley with: a policeman or a gang member?\u201D For this side of the House, this is the news that you need to hear today: there is going to be less gang members in alleyways, because they\u2019re going to be locked up, because police have got the tools to deal with that. Just for the record, I would rather be with a policeman in a dark alley any day of the week than a gang member, and on that, I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5da3d96a1a64b21abf1dff5e98ee8ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5da3d96a1a64b21abf1dff5e98ee8ad\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, the next call is a split call. I call Takutai\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022630e4f320d82466482ab7526a5b03739\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the 501s, you fool!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254698d5b51634e71a577330c3ab3ab38\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me while the Speaker\u2019s talking, and we won\u2019t have personal\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a910e826-1964-4e6b-bdb6-958820a11514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022183a09d58671454c806cb65b3fcfe8de\u0022\u003EJamie Arbuckle\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022137b870e235740c99416f8f5a30f9a81\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I know what the point of order is. The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise for calling an individual a fool, please, Mr Willie Jackson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210e1cfd62dd44723b25ef80cea473073\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022 data-id=\u00229accb0449a2743a1a6de525451714e5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229accb0449a2743a1a6de525451714e5e\u0022\u003ETAKUTAI TARSH KEMP (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I want to start with: I\u2019m not intimidated by a gang patch\u2014I\u2019m not intimidated. Our marae open up space for wh\u0101nau. We\u2019re not afraid, and we do that on a daily basis. It is not a space that a bill can determine who and what can come on to our marae. It is our tino rangatiratanga that we determine what and who can come on. We set the parameters, we set the rules, and everybody abides by that. But that\u2019s how we behave on a marae. This is not something that we do lightly, either. We have kaum\u0101tua and kuia that uphold those tikanga. You may laugh about it, but it\u2019s not a laughing matter on our marae. Our tikanga is the way we behave. We will uphold that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThis bill puts our wh\u0101nau in a position where they are judged, where they are made to feel like they are not valued, where they are made to feel like they are nothing. Our people are not nothing. Our people wear a gang patch. Actually, do you know what we do? We actually have a k\u014Drero. We actually have w\u0101nanga with them. We actually bring them into a space and say, \u201CWhat is happening? How can we awhi you to make better choices? What programmes can we develop to help?\u201D That\u2019s what we need to do. That\u2019s a solution. That\u2019s what we do through Wh\u0101nau Ora, through our marae, through M\u0101ori providers. We w\u0101nanga, we hui with wh\u0101nau. I want to encourage that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EThis bill is going to put our wh\u0101nau backwards. This bill will put our people even further backwards in what they\u2019re doing today. It\u2019s not going to help us at all. Our people deserve to be treated better. Like I said in question time, why is it that swastikas are not part of the legislation? Why is it that Black Power insignia is named and a swastika isn\u2019t? Why aren\u2019t white supremacist gangs named? Why is it just those of us who are brown? I don\u2019t understand that. It\u2019s unfair for our people to be treated that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002256295840-7a18-46fb-bbb3-164ac3edf716\u0022\u003EWe will never agree to this bill. We absolutely do not support it. It\u2019s our right to ensure that our marae, our tikanga are not wavered so that they can make the decisions that they need to for our people. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u00222b5d178150544c0eabe4e4aa7f2b1a2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b5d178150544c0eabe4e4aa7f2b1a2f\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to speak to this legislation, which we disdain. We visited Waikeria Prison on the day before the koroneihana of the now late King, and we had a very moving welcome there by members of the iwi unit\u2014the Te Ao Marama Unit\u2014who shared some of their life experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIn the heart of the Waikato\u2014and this speaks to the context of the legislation\u2014it\u2019s impossible for us to not consider that there\u2019s a relationship between colonisation and the disenfranchisement of M\u0101ori. Of course it would be a deep denial of our history and the facts of our present day to do that. In the heart of the Waikato\u2014the land that was invaded and confiscated by raupatu and the atrocities committed\u2014it\u2019s hard to not observe that the descendants of the people from whom the land was stolen are now locked up in a prison built by the Crown, who stole the land, on the land that was stolen. The prison is built on the land that was stolen. When we consider that deep history of disenfranchisement, of theft, of raupatu, of atrocity, it gives us some context for the ongoing disenfranchisement of M\u0101ori\u2014the 80 to 90 percent in State care who are now members of gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThey had no safe place in our society. Maybe they were removed from an abusive domestic situation\u2014maybe they were rightly removed\u2014and then they were put into a State care situation and they were abused again. They had nowhere to go, and perhaps the gang was the only refuge on this earth where they felt they could be safe, and they went to that refuge and they found that they could get a home there. They had a place to exist\u2014the despised of our society\u2014and now, through this legislation, we\u2019re coming for them there too. We\u2019re going to say, \u201CYou must disdain and disabide yourself and remove yourself from this one place where you had refuge.\u201D\u2014this community that happens to be a gang; that place that was better than nowhere\u2014\u201CYou need to leave that now too.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u201CAnd as much as you have done it unto me, one of the least of my brethren, you have done it unto me.\u201D\u2014this is the saying from Matthew; the saying that you go and clothe the naked and you feed the hungry and you visit those in prison. I wonder if our Christian colleagues on the other side of the House have fed the hungry, have visited those in prison, have sought to reach a hand across to understand what is the experience of these people who are in gangs\u2014have approached them not with aggression, not with vengeance, but with compassion and with empathy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa39b8ef4763451c8c4b377a7f6fa497\u0022\u003EHon Karen Chhour\u003C/span\u003E: Did they approach their victims with compassion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232e47a7f607e43a1a7bd4231818f3ea4\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: They are themselves victims, and you know it. You know they are themselves victims, and you are victimising victims. You\u2019re re-victimising people by displacing them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d8ce5bcf12848c2a48120d836a8d460\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please don\u2019t use the word \u201Cyou\u201D, Mr Abel. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251a18a1c8ae4451586e91d1efadcccc6\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon me, Madam Speaker. What I would say is that I remember a time in my lifetime when a more enlightened, in this regard at least, leader of the National Party shook hands with members of the gangs, visited them on marae, and on his death, Sir Robert Muldoon had Black Power performing a haka at his funeral. He approached the question of those who are the most rejected by our society with compassion. He approached the question with compassion and, until such time as we are able to do that, we will not solve this problem, as my colleague Tamatha Paul pointed out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI attended the funeral of King Tuheitia. It was a very moving and profound experience and, frankly, a privilege to be a New Zealander and to be able to attend that and be made so welcome by the iwi of Waikato-Tainui. There were gang insignia there on the road\u2014multiple gang insignia\u2014attending the hui alongside uniformed police, and they were there to honour the M\u0101ori King. Under this law, would those police be obliged to arrest those gang members in their insignia paying tribute at a funeral? Will funerals be exempt from this? Will marae? The principle that a man\u2019s home is his castle is enshrined to M\u0101ori both in article 3 of the Treaty and in article 2, tino rangatiratanga, the sanctity of M\u0101ori resources and taonga. This legislation breaches both of those principles, both the English law that my colleague Duncan Webb spoke about and the principle of tino rangatiratanga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThis law is an affront to everything decent that we as a society should stand for, and it is exactly the sort of lockjaw, right-wing rubbish that we do not need in this world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u00224a8aca5459df44258af7dc0d7a251f0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a8aca5459df44258af7dc0d7a251f0d\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to quote from an article published on stuff.co.nz on 17 March 2021, and it goes like this: \u201CTwo men who went cruising the streets looking for \u2026 rival gang members, ended up shooting an innocent, random stranger and killing him. \u2026 They pulled up next to two other men before spotting Samiuela \u2026 Tupou at \u014Ct\u0101huhu\u2019s Seaside Park. They chose Tupou only because of the colour of his clothing. [They] shot Tupou three times. Tupou was only 21 years old and worked as a machine operator to support his parents. He was not a gang member or even affiliated with a gang \u2026 He was murdered only because he chose to wear blue that day.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe Opposition say they\u2019re not intimidated by gang patches. Well, I wonder if they\u2019ve asked the victims who have been kidnapped, raped, and tortured by patched gang members whether they are intimidated by gang patches. The Opposition say they\u2019re not concerned about that, but they are concerned about the impact that the removal of gang patches will have on the gang members. None of them has asked what those gang members have done to earn those gang patches, and I\u2019ll tell them. I\u2019ll quote from a Radio New Zealand article from 11\u00A0February 2014: \u201CA court has heard how the man accused of murdering Christchurch woman, Mellory Manning, barked like a dog and gave Nazi salutes as he attacked her during an initiation to the Mongrel Mob gang.\u201D That\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EWe must eradicate gangs and we must eradicate the causes of gangs. This bill isn\u2019t the whole solution, but it is a step in the right direction. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022 data-id=\u00229afa5c8d78ff4ce9b412a30dca61ec75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229afa5c8d78ff4ce9b412a30dca61ec75\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We\u2019re here talking about this incredibly important kaupapa. I acknowledge the k\u014Drero of the previous member James Meager. It is a rightful k\u014Drero and it\u2019s something that many of us have dealt with for many, many years. However, we cannot go along with this type of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been involved with gangs most of my life, in terms of working with them at the coalface. Some of them have been my friends. Some of them have been relations. A number of them have let me down big time\u2014big time\u2014and my mother, who was 20\u00A0years on the Parole Board, sadly, had a lot of them coming around to our home, working with them, counselling them, working through the complexities of their lives. When we see gangs, we\u00A0just don\u2019t see gangsters, Mark. We don\u2019t just see gangsters; we see our people, we see our wh\u0101nau. And as much as it disgusts the House\u2014and believe you me, Mr Cameron, it disgusts us too\u2014we can\u2019t walk away from them. They are part of us; they\u2019ll always be part\u00A0of us. To walk away from them and just come up with a gang patch law, that\u2019s not going to do the business. The complexities of how so many of our wider wh\u0101nau end up in prison demand more from us as a Parliament than just a nonsense gang legislation amendment Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThe findings of the royal commission on abuse in State care suggest that 80 to 90\u00A0percent of gang members were victims of abuse\u2014victims of abuse! Now, this Government, to their credit, has been very supportive of those victims, and we saw that as we had a bipartisan day in the House. You can\u2019t have that type of day, you can\u2019t have that type of commitment, and then the next day want to imprison half of the M\u0101ori population in gangs. It just doesn\u2019t work like that. If we\u2019re serious as a Parliament about removing the social harm caused by gangs, we would be looking to stop our kids being abused in State care in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis legislation isn\u2019t an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. Many of our people are just\u00A0seeing it as a prison cell at the bottom of the cliff. I find it insulting when we ignore the reason why people join gangs at the same time as the ACT Party is stripping section 7AA from Oranga Tamariki. That clause will save our kids in terms of abuse in State care and joining gangs in the first place. It was a clause well thought out by Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the National Party. Bill English and others saw the strength of 7AA in terms of saving our kids\u2019 lives. This\u00A0has been such a contentious kaupapa with te ao M\u0101ori, but what does this Government do? Remove 7AA. This heavy-handed approach is doing no good in terms of our community. We\u2019re just pandering to the \u201CLet\u2019s be tough on crime brigade\u201D, rather than finding actual\u00A0solutions. It\u2019s the usual war on crime strategy that has caused more misery than it has healed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003ELook, no one has time for organised crime, but what\u2019s being mooted here is simply a justification by the Government\u2014who love, sadly, using M\u0101ori as a punching bag\u2014to storm a tangi to remove a gang patch. That\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about. Christopher Luxon told the country during the Paddy Gower election debate that he would demand 500\u00A0heavily armed police to storm a gang funeral just to remove a gang patch. I mean, how ridiculous is that? So few people have been to tangi. I meet P\u0101keh\u0101 people\u2014and it\u2019s not their fault at all, but a lot of people have not been to our tangis and that. They don\u2019t understand the tikanga. They don\u2019t understand the process. They don\u2019t understand that when gang members walk in, we get irritated too, but we don\u2019t turn away our own wh\u0101nau. What is the Government suggesting? They\u2019re going to storm the tangi and rip out people? It\u2019s just a nonsense. And M\u0101ori police officers no doubt will be at the forefront of that. This is what Christopher Luxon said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EThis gangs legislation amendment will not make New Zealand safer, as far as we\u2019re concerned. It will just greenlight over-the-top stunts like removing these patches from tangi or, even worse, as Duncan Webb said, allowing people\u2019s homes to be invaded. I mean, how ridiculous is that? Has the Government and have police not learnt anything from what\u2019s happened in the past with regards to police actions? We should never forget the T\u016Bhoe raids of 2007, where police breached our people\u2019s rights, where we had guns on school buses\u2014you have to go back if you have not seen the T\u016Bhoe raids, and you will see how our people\u2019s rights were breached. And now we\u2019re talking about people entering homes to get patches. Who are they going to send into the people\u2019s homes? The M\u0101ori police officers, like they did in T\u016Bhoe? That\u2019s not progress. We\u2019re talking about hurting people, hurting wh\u0101nau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EWe empathise with the Government in terms of the crimes going on out there, but there are better ways to do things. Our people who\u2019ve been out there are working with you right now. I want to salute some of those people. Denis O\u2019Reilly, who Stevie Abel talked about\u2014Denis O\u2019Reilly would work with this Government at the top of a hat. He\u2019s the guy who worked with Rob Muldoon. He\u2019s the guy who worked with the National Party. He\u2019s the guy who worked with me. He\u2019s the guy who\u2019ll work with Tama Potaka and anybody on that side to turn things around. I want to salute Denis O\u2019Reilly today. He\u2019s also very clear that this getting-rid-of-patches law will be of no use and will just cause further social disharmony. The way forward is not to rip the patches from Denis O\u2019Reilly and his team, but to work with them and find work with them and do the type of mahi we\u2019re talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI want to salute Eugene Ryder, who I think appeared before the select committee, who is working with his people at the coalface to turn their lives around. Eugene Ryder will say the same thing as Denis O\u2019Reilly, that just taking these patches off gang members won\u2019t make things a lot different. They\u2019ll just wear different colours. I salute Eugene Ryder for his work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI salute David Letele, a good friend who I went to school with, who was a mob boss who did 10 years, who today works in the Grace Foundation, has been with the current police Minister, Mark Mitchell, who was surprised at the type of work that David Letele does in the communities. This guy\u2019s got no time for gangs. This guy will look them in the eye and say, \u201CTake that patch off.\u201D This guy is saying very clearly that this patch law will not work. We should be listening to wonderful leaders like David Letele. I\u2019m talking about David Letele senior; I\u2019m not talking about David Letele junior, who does some wonderful work too. When you have a man who was the mob boss, who did 10 years in prison, whose life now is absolutely committed to turning around people\u2019s lives, has no time for gang members, you should listen\u2014you should actually listen. He knows what works. What works is mahi. What works is knitting communities together. What works is giving people a sense of purpose, not just playing tough guy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EI want to salute Martin Cooper today. As we know, he does wonderful work at Takutai\u2019s marae at Manurewa. He\u2019s been a kaum\u0101tua for them, former Black Power boss on my paepae at Ng\u0101 Whare Waatea\u2014turned his life around, spends his days working with young people, turning their lives around. He is absolutely opposed to this law. I also want to salute one of our w\u0101hine out there, Paula Ormsby, who\u2019s fabulous with her work down in the Tainui\u2014you know, really worked well with us. Again, she understands how fragile this law is. And finally, Fa\u2019afete Taito, or Fete, who\u2019s a former King Cobras boss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003EYou see, not all former gang members are bad. In fact, so many of them have turned their lives around. I\u2019m so proud of the work they\u2019re doing. We have to work alongside these people. We\u2019re working against them at the moment. This Government is working against them. I salute all those people. This is the wrong legislation that we have in front of us today. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e72b31b6624047f68c274af9a5a16981\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e72b31b6624047f68c274af9a5a16981\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to rise on this third reading of the Gangs Bill and the Sentencing Amendment Bill. The Opposition tells us we don\u2019t understand the gangs and they tell us, \u201CLet\u2019s address the causes of gangs.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221daa9c8923bc4f4e8895bfbf1fb86982\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Have you ever met one?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a17bd7380c41b1b94ba3c63e16e3ab\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Willie Jackson says there are better ways. Well, frankly, I don\u2019t want to understand gangs, because we know enough. We know enough about the misery that they peddle in our community. This is a great day for New Zealand. This is a great day for New Zealanders. They will be watching and they will be very happy with the direction of this Government, that it\u2019s delivering on this promise. This Government is banning all gang insignia in public places because New Zealanders deserve to feel safe in their communities. We are cracking down on gangs. That\u2019s what the New Zealand public wants us to do and that\u2019s what we are delivering today. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u00225dd5f02558bd4e09b6e4c30adde662f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225dd5f02558bd4e09b6e4c30adde662f1\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. One of the most irritating parts of this debate, not only today but throughout this process, has been on one hand listening to the thoughtful contributions from lived experience, from learned exploration of the ideas, from people who know other people or who are those people who have tried to conceptualise a problem and actually figure out what it means and what we can do about it; and, on the other hand, hearing from the contributions from the other side of the House that are vacuous, silly, lightweight, and pathetic, including some of the contributions that have been made here today. All due respect to the member from the ACT Party, but his opening spiel told us nothing about the problem. You\u2019re on the wrong track, buddy, so just, yeah, think about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard here today about the fact that gangs are a problem, and of course they are. Crime is a problem. No one\u2019s sticking up for gangs. The pathway that people end up in gangs is also heartbreaking\u2014no one\u2019s disputing that. The huge amount of work that people need to do to turn lives around and to make society better for everyone is commendable\u2014no one\u2019s disputing that\u2014but ripping the gang patches off the backs of people is not going to solve the problem, and yet this is the solution before us according to the Government. All talk, no trousers. I agree with my Green colleague: it\u2019s a marketing, PR exercise. It\u2019s vacuous, it\u2019s invalid, and it\u2019s infuriating that we\u2019re sitting here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe know it\u2019s a flawed process. We know that there were even last-minute amendments that were brought into the House at the last minute, even though discussions were being held as early as March. We know, therefore, that that indicates that the Government and both Ministers, most certainly, are scrambling around, trying to find solutions, trying to plug gaps because they\u2019ve looked at this from the wrong way. They\u2019ve looked at this as a marketing exercise, instead of something with substantive value, and they\u2019re making it up on the hoof. We know that there are impractical enforcement obligations around this. We talked before throughout this process about the fact\u2014how are police going to monitor this? How are police going to enforce this? Some of the contingencies and some of the scenarios when you allow yourselves to think through it properly are just utterly ridiculous. We know it\u2019s not supported by evidence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had gang patch bans and gang bans and things like that in New Zealand before. We\u2019ve talked about it in prior readings when we looked at the Whanganui example. And the most incredulous thing about that was actually asking Michael Laws, who was mayor at the time, \u201CHow did that work out?\u201D He did a whole speech about how fabulous it was and we should do it, we should do it, we should do it. When I asked him a question, the result of the answer was that the gangs just left town. It\u2019s like, \u201CCool. So where are they going to go when the gang patches are banned over all of New Zealand?\u201D That is not a solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from both Ministers\u2014the Minister of Justice, and we\u2019ve heard reference from the Minister of Police, as he\u2019s referenced this in media and in other sort of fora that this is all about an effective deterrent\u2014that it\u2019s all about putting gang members on notice; it\u2019s all about telling gang members, \u201CJust don\u2019t be in gangs any more if you don\u2019t like this piece of legislation.\u201D If that\u2019s not the most inane, ridiculous thing you\u2019ve ever heard, I don\u2019t know what is. I\u2019m not saying there\u2019s not value in signalling to the public. I\u2019m not saying there\u2019s no value in having expectations and saying, \u201CHere\u2019s a signal for the direction that we\u2019re going.\u201D But you\u2019ve got to back that up at some point with some actual legislation and some actual direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EMr Meager referred to the fact that this was not the only thing that was going to happen in the fight to eradicate gangs, but it was a step in the right direction. Well, it\u2019s not much of a step. The purpose it is serving\u2014the only purpose it is serving\u2014is to signal to people who are too busy working two jobs and don\u2019t pay any attention to what goes on in this House that the National Party and the National Government are somehow tough on crime and tough on gangs because they\u2019re going to police people\u2019s uniforms. It\u2019s ridiculous. I am livid at the fact that we\u2019re having to go through this process in such a sloppy way with these last-minute amendments, but yet here we have it. I do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5ac904758834fd887abc28fee18973a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5ac904758834fd887abc28fee18973a\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E The Gangs Bill and the Sentencing Amendment Bill are only part of a suite of legislation that is meant to restore law and order in New Zealand. The situation with law and order in New Zealand, a majority of reasonable people living throughout New Zealand would agree, is a situation that has slipped down to very difficult, scary, and uncomfortable levels. The Gangs Bill and the Sentencing Amendment Bill, therefore, attack one specific portion of law and order, and seek to provide police with the tools to deal with gangs, to disrupt and crack down on gang activities and gang crime, to reduce gang numbers\u2014which have grown tremendously over the past five years\u2014and to stop gangs from gathering and associating and maintaining a threateningly high profile, which spreads fear and discomfort and anxiety in local communities. I commend this legislation to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2b636acbd9a458998f00a1480ad1167\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2b636acbd9a458998f00a1480ad1167\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. That was a short speech, wasn\u2019t it? We are pretty loud and clear on the fact that Labour does not support this bill for a number of reasons, but I think it\u2019s appropriate here at the third reading that we highlight the appalling process that this bill has gone through. As far as the public interest, the people of New Zealand, also the media who have been quite interested in finding out answers here\u2014they\u2019re really interested to understand at what point in time and what was it that caused Paul Goldsmith to buckle and for the Ministry of Justice to cave and to give Police what they asked for back in March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EBack in March, Police were concerned about the ability for this law to be enforced. They raised real concerns that there would be insufficient front-line capacity to enforce legislation that required police to remove patches from gang members. That was very clear in the submissions process that we heard on this bill. We had the Police Association who specifically stated that there was a risk to the trust and confidence in New Zealand Police if we made a law in this House that was then unable to be enforced by a front-line police officer because there would be insufficient numbers or capacity capability to do that work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Police\u2019s advice to the Minister of Police and the Minister of Justice back in March was: \u201CWell, if we sort of had this threat that was big enough, a really good penalty or something we can hang over them, we reckon we might get a better chance of some kind of compliance in areas where we know there\u2019s not going to be a good show of getting compliance.\u201D But that was ruled out. It was thought that it would be breaching the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act; it wasn\u2019t going to be a good idea to invade somebody\u2019s home to go in, and the penalties for having a gang patch under your bed or in your top drawer would be up to, I think, five years in prison is the maximum penalty attached to that\u2014having a gang patch in your own home: five years. That was ruled out; it wasn\u2019t going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThen, when the select committee had finished its work and reported the bill back, second reading, we came to the committee of the whole House stage, and lo and behold, it appeared back. We had this change without any ability for members of the New Zealand public to submit on this change, without even the ability for a New Zealand Bill of Rights Act section 7 vet to be tabled and to have that information available. It was immediately put into this bill. I\u2019d love to know\u2014I would just love to know\u2014the sheer drama of it, of what happened. What made \u201CGoldie\u201D buckle? We just want to know. It would be interesting to think, you know, was he threatened? Was he worried? Did he get a report from somewhere? What made him change his mind? It would be fascinating to know what went on there, because he hasn\u2019t really given much away at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292f8dda461904786a748db51a8e3d0ce\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, as a longtime friend and colleague of Mr Goldsmith, I\u2019d like to draw your attention to Speakers\u2019 rulings that say it\u2019s unparliamentary to imply that a member\u2019s made a decision due to fear or a lack of courage. That\u2019s simply unparliamentary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226628c18fe61d410eb6033da51f4fa501\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for the point of order, but I know some of these questions were asked particularly this morning during the committee of the whole House stage. What I also will note is that it is actually unparliamentary to call somebody by a nickname rather than by their full name. I do note for Minister Seymour\u2019s perspective that those questions did come up this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223379615a909d450eb4d9fba416d8e5a5\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. In terms of this process, we\u2019d already had this last-minute introduction at the committee of the whole House stage, which was pretty unusual in terms of good lawmaking or parliamentary process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EBut it gets worse, ladies and gentlemen\u2014it gets worse\u2014because when we\u2019d done the committee of the whole House stage and it\u2019d been voted on, it got hauled back again this morning. We haul the bill back again before the House because we find that, if a gang member is driving their car and they display a patch\u2014I\u2019m assuming not while driving, because that would be really dangerous, but somehow they display it on the back of the car\u2014that, then, was potentially not covered by the legislation, the way it was drafted. [Issue with Chamber clock] I get to go on all night, is that right? We clarified this morning that it doesn\u2019t apply to yachts, and it\u2019s good that the Government were clear on that\u2014oh, no, it does apply to yachts; it applies to yachts as well. If you had a Mongrel Mob member who had a really big yacht with a sail on it, if they put Black Power, Mongrel Mob, Head Hunters, Comancheros, you can\u2019t do that on a sail; definitely out. The change we saw this morning was on no display of a patch in a vehicle. That\u2019s been tidied up as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI do wonder what else has been missed out, because if they\u2019ve just found out this at the 13th hour and jammed it in at the end, are there other things that we will find out about this bill and how its operational, that the way it\u2019s actually going to be implemented will have significant problems for police to be able to enforce? That is our main problem with this bill. It is one of these ideas that sounds really strong on the campaign trail but the devil is going to be in the detail of how New Zealand Police enforce this legislation. That is evidenced in the scrambling we\u2019ve seen from the Government to try and fix the holes that are starting to show in this bill now, and it has been a real shambles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI would like to spend the remainder of my speech in talking about the fact that this bill is largely cosmetic\u2014is largely cosmetic. When you have a bill that is focused upon external things such as a gang patch, it begs the question: what is happening beneath the surface? What are the real drivers and causes of organised crime and gang membership in New Zealand? That\u2019s where this bill fails to even get near to those questions. What is sad, I find, is that we have learnt from the royal commission inquiry into State care that one of the main causes of young people ending up in situations where they join a gang is because they grow up in homes where they\u2019re subjected to unacceptable ongoing levels of family violence, and sometimes sexual abuse, as well; that we have young people who have violence normalised as part of their daily lives, and young people who don\u2019t have hope when they\u2019re thinking about what their future here in New Zealand holds for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EOne of the main services that locate those young people and provide those families with support and assistance is Oranga Tamariki. They go into those homes and they provide counselling services; they provide advice; they support mums and dads and aunties and uncles to have better parenting skills, to assist them to bring up their children in their own homes and to help them have more opportunities in life. What we have in this Government is a Minister responsible for those areas who has said on record that she will only fund those services once those children are in State care\u2014\u201CNothing more, nothing less\u201D. If those members opposite who have gone quiet now would like the real reason for what grows gang members in New Zealand, the real reason for what grows gang members in New Zealand is the fact that there is a lack now which will embed these issues further into New Zealand society\u2014a lack of support for wh\u0101nau who are struggling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWhat concerns me even more, in terms of addressing the root causes of gangs, organised crime, and growing gang membership in New Zealand, is the fact that we now have a police service who will be more focused on taking these gang patches off people than raising the flag when young people and their families are in situations of family violence, because there\u2019s now only a high threshold when there\u2019s real risk to life that, if someone calls 111 after 5 o\u2019clock at night, they\u2019re going to get any help in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EWe had a plan just for mental health, not family violence, that was going to take five years to have the workforce in place. Well, that\u2019s happened right now; the plug\u2019s been pulled already. We know there are families out there right now with family violence situations who are asking for help who are not getting that help. That is really concerning for the next generation of young people and the opportunities that lie before them, because the one thing we know about family violence is what stops reporting is when someone has reached out for help previously and not received that help. That is the main reason why 20 percent or less of family violence currently gets reported in New Zealand. This Government has made decisions and funding cuts that will make that 20 percent reporting rate even lower in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIf this Government hopes to fix or resolve or remedy the problem of organised crime in New Zealand by driving down reporting for family violence and cutting the services to young people who require assistance and help in their family situations, then what they\u2019ve, effectively, done is prove that this bill is actually consigning another generation of young people with less hope and far more chance of joining gangs. That is sad. That is sad, because this is a Government focused on the cosmetic. They want to look good on the telly for two seconds but they couldn\u2019t care less about what happens in the suburbs of New Zealand that they don\u2019t have to deal with or front up about because they don\u2019t want to know about the ugliness in the shadows of our community; they are far more interested in being able to point to a gang patch and say they took it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4893a195a6d408ba04c29e46a1c53c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4893a195a6d408ba04c29e46a1c53c3\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, this evening we\u2019ve been having a philosophical conversation about the real drivers of what leads people to gang membership, and all of these conversations are very interesting and very true, to a great extent, but unfortunately, my neighbours in Takanini don\u2019t have the luxury of sitting around having a philosophical debate about what leads people to join gangs when they\u2019re being intimidated by the brazen, antisocial, and anti-lawful behaviour taking place in our patch. Six years of philosophical conversations, what did it lead to? It led to increase in violent crime by 33 percent; 51 percent increase in gang members over the last five years. This is about helping our neighbours in our patches feel safe. We commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022eba4d2abb7d34ea5a66f659b9f06d2ce\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Gangs Bill and the Sentencing Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000391\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00227743a6619a3d4cbab77a36b18f63a15d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227743a6619a3d4cbab77a36b18f63a15d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for further consideration of the Education and Training Amendment Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f7604b0c7ad45629c51d084e17f7c3d\u0022\u003EEducation and Training Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f3ff195c882548e2add04a60cb7c2d76\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000395\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 18 September.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224588a903903d4375916a7d15396e6b6c\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to principal Act (continued)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022abe4d4409e2c4c5a9e1c13e6bf3790d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abe4d4409e2c4c5a9e1c13e6bf3790d9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is in committee for further consideration of the Education and Training Amendment Bill. When we were last debating this bill, we were debating Part 1, which is the debate on clauses 4 to 62A, \u201CAmendments to principal Act\u201D and Schedules 1 to 3. The question again is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u00226e5601b9c70e4dc1a64338501c657ee7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e5601b9c70e4dc1a64338501c657ee7\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. New section 212ZH, inserted by clause 40, basically exempts sponsors\u2014the people who will be running these charter schools\u2014from the provisions of the Official Information Act. We spent some time at the select committee discussing this. The trouble is, it\u2019s not at all clear why this provision is in here and what the bill\u2019s authors hope to achieve by it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThere are two obvious concerns here. One is that a group of schools who are funded entirely by taxpayers\u2019 money, funding students who are there to receive their education, some of whom may not have any real choice about being there, are no longer going to be covered by the Official Information Act. It is, I think, as the Chief Ombudsman said at select committee, almost a sort of constitutional principle in New Zealand that public entities that are spending public money are covered by the Official Information Act. There\u2019s a real question about the lack of accountability for taxpayers\u2019 money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI\u2019d be interested to hear from the Minister: what is the principle of public policy that this exemption is based on, that schools that will be spending $153 million of taxpayers\u2019 money aren\u2019t accountable under the Official Information Act? I would also like to invite National Party members this afternoon to express a view on this or ask a question about this in this debate. Is this a principle of public policy that they are comfortable with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI also have my doubts about whether New Zealand First, when it comes down to it, are comfortable with the provision in this bill because based on things that various New Zealand First MPs have said in the past, I suspect they may not be happy with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe second issue that I would like the Minister to comment on is why create this inequality where the students at charter schools and their families will not be able to avail themselves of the Official Information Act? Their rights are restricted in this respect and it\u2019s particularly relevant because we know, and any MP in this House who works in the community, including electorate MPs, will know, that it\u2019s not uncommon for students and their families to fall out with a school. It doesn\u2019t always have to be something as serious as exclusions and expulsions; there are all kinds of disputes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003ECurrently, public schools in New Zealand have to, under the Official Information Act, release the documentation that shows the basis of decisions that they may or may not have made. Now, in this respect, this provision is setting up an inequality that significantly disadvantages students and their families at charter schools, and that seems to me to be very difficult to justify. We didn\u2019t hear in all of the discussions at select committee anything from the Minister or officials that shed light on this, and I would be very interested to hear the Minister\u2019s explanation now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EI urge the Minister and this committee to support Jan Tinetti\u2019s amendment that would create a new paragraph in new section 212ZH that would, in fact, apply the Official Information Act to a sponsor if they are performing their duties and functions and powers in relation to the charter school contract.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022490d989535504da5a724274a4dc1b2b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022490d989535504da5a724274a4dc1b2b0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I\u2019ll very quickly address the issue in new section 212ZH. It is true: charter schools are exempt from the Official Information Act (OIA); so are most early childhood education centres. You know, the Opposition has been in Government for the last six years. If this was really so terrible, they should have exempted early childhood education centres or at least added early childhood education centres receiving taxpayer money with young children in their care to the OIA. But they didn\u2019t, and the reason for that is that charter schools and other suppliers to Government can be accountable to supply the service they receive taxpayer money for through a contract, which charter schools will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022df52b96fc0644244b5d70b6c338cc542\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df52b96fc0644244b5d70b6c338cc542\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Before I pick up on what the Minister just mentioned before, in terms of the Official Information Act\u2014this is clause 40; new section 212ZH\u2014we are now coming to the crux of the process of charter schools. And this is an incredibly substantial section, to the point that we\u2019re going to beyond \u201CZ\u201D. There is still a lot of material to cover, and I\u2019ll be very explicit in terms of which areas to cover. It would be disingenuous, otherwise, to consider that we have explored all of Part 1 at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, going back to what was mentioned\u2014a couple of things\u2014and just to touch on some of my Amendment Papers, previously we heard Camilla Belich talking in terms of students enrolling and the transitional phase of students going from a converting school into a new school. I would like to draw the Minister\u2019s attention to my Amendment Paper\u00A091. That is an amendment to new section 212K which says that, unless the secretary is happy with the arrangements being made for the student or for the family\u2014if they have decided not to go to a converting school\u2014the conversion date needs to be adjusted. The reason for that is we don\u2019t want to have a situation where these students are being placed in limbo without a new school to go to and, at the same time, the school that they were from, which was a State or State-integrated school, has completed their conversion. With this amendment, we\u2019ll also be making the relevant changes to the date in new section 212L(5)(o). That\u2019s the first Amendment Paper I would like to speak to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe next part is what the Hon Jan Tinetti mentioned, in terms of the direction by the Minister for schools to convert. Now, what is quite interesting here, in terms of new section 212G, is that the Minister only needs to take advice from the Authorisation Board, but then it\u2019s also the Authorisation Board that approves it. The Authorisation Board directs the Minister to say, \u201CThis school should convert\u201D and then they send the application and the Authorisation Board formalises or approves it, which then would create this Ouroboros of a circle, where they kind of do the same thing. My recommendation is Amendment Paper 87, where it shouldn\u2019t actually be the Authorisation Board that the Minister takes direction from or consults with. It should actually be the school board, school community, school staff, and students, because they are the ones who are most affected by a transition or by a conversion. The fact that school boards, communities, school staff, and students do not get told at all, are not part of this consultation process, when there\u2019s a direction seems weird. I would invite the Minister to consider that amendment as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, coming to the one area that I would like to discuss when it comes to curriculum, I appreciate what the Minister said\u2014that we want to see flexibility in terms of the curriculum. But the first thing, when it comes to curriculum\u2014and having been, again, someone who dealt a lot in terms of programme accreditation through New Zealand Qualifications Authority (NZQA), which I\u2019m sure the Minister has some experience of as well\u2014it is absolutely crucial for our qualifications authority to be aware of the kinds of qualifications that a charter school needs to be undertaking. Now, if they are internationally recognised, like the International Baccalaureate or GCSE or NCEA, that\u2019s fine; it\u2019s already covered. But if it is a programme or curriculum that the school itself develops, it needs to go through the accreditation process. My Amendment Paper for new section 212I suggests that NZQA should be considered on the matter of curriculum, as set out in new section 212I(2)(c). That\u2019s another thing for the Minister to consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAlso, on the subject of curriculum, I\u2019m noticing that, while the school is exempted from the national standard and curriculum in general, they\u2019re also not mentioned at all in terms of the health curriculum. I would ask the Minister to consider incorporating the health curriculum\u2014this is section 91 of the principal Act\u2014and incorporating charter schools into that as well. We heard from one of the previous speakers, Shanan Halbert, that this is going to be really important\u2014[Time expired]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd02f241032a4f24a2ddeded44c9e325\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd02f241032a4f24a2ddeded44c9e325\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now\u00A0close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3cf0b0ba8d54239b9cfdfcc54515be3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3cf0b0ba8d54239b9cfdfcc54515be3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, this debate has gone on for some time. I\u2019ll be looking for only new material from here on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00224890808b73d04ccaa052e130aea82711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224890808b73d04ccaa052e130aea82711\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. There is still a lot of new material, for sure. In fact, I have an amendment on pretty much every single subsection of clause 40, so if the Minister would like to provide some clarification or if other members would like to speak on my amendments, please do so. We have not heard from the Minister regarding his take on these amendments. So, to the Minister, if the Minister could provide some clarification or some of his thoughts around my amendments that I have mentioned, that\u2019ll be appreciated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe other thing, when we\u2019re looking at this particular section and when we\u2019re looking at the Authorisation Board component and who is able to apply\u2014so we\u2019re going to the beginning bit of clause 40. This is new section 212F(1)(b)(ii), inserted by clause 40. This is a new section that has not been covered previously. One of the requirements is that it only requires one or more members of the school community, with the support of the proposed sponsor, for a converting school to convert. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, this is really interesting, because one would argue that one additional person from the community is too low a threshold. Again, when we\u2019re looking at the school boards, there are a minimum of three parent-elects on any given school board and up to a maximum of seven. My Amendment Paper\u2014this is Amendment Paper 86\u2014would adjust the number one to three, taking into consideration that I\u2019m not even asking for the maximum number here of seven. I am asking, simply, for a minimum threshold of at least three people in the community who are happy to vouch for the sponsor, for there to be the process following the case of a converting school.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThat is not a huge ask, so I would like to know from the Minister: why was one chosen? Why was one deemed a sufficient threshold from the school community? I would seriously ask the Minister to consider readjusting that to three. Now, moving on to the next Amendment Paper, Amendment Paper 88\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a1a0298daed4bcb919bb34d0d55790b\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Getting desperate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c443527a2bc486db1a8782159f8161a\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: They are all Amendment Papers and I am free to speak on my own Amendment Papers. The Amendment Papers, in terms of conversion, say that the Minister can direct a school in terms of poor performance. However, one of the issues with that is, as we have seen in overseas examples, the ministry, or in this case, for example, the UK equivalent of the Education Review Office, would then go in and deliberately give a bad review to a school, which will trigger a forced conversion. What I\u2019m saying here is not that that is a situation that is going to present itself here, but what Amendment Paper 88\u2014my amendment\u2014is simply saying is that the Minister may not direct a State school to convert into a charter school on performance grounds without first giving the State school all reasonable opportunities to make improvement needed to remain as a State school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think this is really, really important, because, again, there are no provisions in here on any of those kind of things, I think particularly when it comes to the fact that the Associate Minister has not clarified whether he has been given dedicated authority by the Minister to also be directing charter schools or directing State or State integrated schools to convert. This sort of clarification is also really important. I will leave that for the time being, but there have been a number of Amendment Papers that I would like the Associate Minister\u2019s advice on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4d12a2c8bf44561a89a824800f5be22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4d12a2c8bf44561a89a824800f5be22\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I have to admire the member for his persistence in small matters, and will try to address as many of them as I can now. The gist of it seems to be about people being consulted in the conversion process and who initiates it and who\u2019s involved. Just about all of his points relate to that. For example, he talks about new section 212L(5)(o), inserted by clause 40, changing the date that a school converts in case a student does not wish to attend a charter school in its new form. They would still have time to enrol in another school with the current time frame, so I think that would be, frankly, a redundant change to make and something that we have considered and thought of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s an amendment to include the board of trustees of a State school before converting, much as there was one about consulting more members of the community. I think what\u2019s really important to recognise is I think it\u2019s new section 212I(2)(f), inserted by clause 40, that actually requires the Authorisation Board to consider the amount of community support. This is really, really key, that you\u2019re not going to see the Authorisation Board convert a school when there\u2019s widespread opposition for it to do so, because it would be impractical for the school to operate in that circumstance, not to mention making the policy the Authorisation Board is committed to very unpopular. Once you consider how this practically works and how much community support you need, not just in practical terms but required by the legislation, most of those concerns melt away, as does the need for the Amendment Papers that Mr Xu-Nan has put up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI think I\u2019ve actually\u2014oh, the other thing was about the health curriculum. Well, that\u2019s part of the New Zealand Curriculum. Charter schools, of course, do not have to use the New Zealand Curriculum, just as some State schools and independent schools use a different curriculum as we speak right now. Again, it would seem a strange overreach to be overly prescriptive on that for charter schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u00226edd87e0e35943068432ac38b4532e12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226edd87e0e35943068432ac38b4532e12\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Because the Minister has talked\u00A0about new section 212I, inserted by clause 40, I just want to ask a further question around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EMinister, you talked about the Authorisation Board, and it\u2019s under new section 212I(4). It talks about \u201CIn the case of a converting school, the Authorisation Board must also take into account the following matters\u201D and it talks about the level of the support from the school community. This has caused quite a bit of angst in the community, and it\u2019s coupled with the one that I talked about just before lunch. I know, Minister, you didn\u2019t get the opportunity to answer the question that I had just before lunch, and that was about the Minister\u2019s direction and the ability to direct to become a charter school. The community is seeing together those two and they are concerned about the ability for the Authorisation Board to say, \u201COh, yeah, what\u2019s the percentage of the community that don\u2019t want this charter school in place?\u201D, and to be quite liberal with their views around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI wondered, Minister, whether first of all, going back to that question before lunch\u2014that question was around that ability for you as Minister or the education Minister to direct that school\u2014how much of an influence is that over the Authorisation Board? I\u2019d really like to have an answer to that\u2014the concerns that the community has that that\u2019s actually taking away their choice of the fact they don\u2019t want to become a charter school, and in what circumstances would that happen. Because that has never been made clear during this whole process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe question that I also have now is around that community support. I have an Amendment Paper up that actually talks about inserting a new part that says, \u201CThe Authorisation Board must not approve the conversion of a school into a charter school without a clear indication of support from a majority of the school community.\u201D, which makes it very clear. In the legislation, in this bill as it stands at the moment, or in the drafting of this bill, it is not clear. I wonder whether there would be some ability to be able to make that clearer at this point. I see the two coming hand in hand and those are the questions that I have for you at this stage, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd7c7630742d4c129513f05e4553c327\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd7c7630742d4c129513f05e4553c327\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The member asks really a continuation of the theme raised by the Green member, and it is: can the legislation somehow codify what support is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI think an important thing to draw members\u2019 attention to is that the Authorisation Board is actually responsible for the ongoing monitoring and assessment of the operation of charter schools. The thing that\u2019s going to be in their mind is: can this work? This House could specify a level that is deemed to be sufficient and that could become the subject of judicial reviews in both directions, but it might be more practical to recognise that what this legislation really does is it devolves the decision making to a group of people who are accountable, who are putting themselves and their professional reputations\u2014very senior professional reputations; you\u2019ll have seen the appointments the other day\u2014on the line with this, and I think trusting their judgment is better than the House trying to micromanage or specify. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI see another amendment that the Minister has put forward, tabled this morning, suggesting that mana whenua through local iwi authorities and hap\u016B be consulted separately from the rest of the community. Again, I think that\u2019s redundant because those groups are actually all part of the community and we should never say otherwise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u002273ee3875099a4d9f868f7516b1684686\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273ee3875099a4d9f868f7516b1684686\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022 data-id=\u00229185bb23060a495d917375cb50abbd2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229185bb23060a495d917375cb50abbd2b\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Chair. Thank you. This is the first opportunity I\u2019ve had to take a call on this bill in committee stage, and I want to cover an area that I don\u2019t believe has been covered as of yet, and that\u2019s the views of our Pacific community when it comes to Pacific education. When this bill, just prior to lunch, was being debated by the committee, my colleague Camilla Belich did touch on this issue of a State school that was seeking through a process of conversion\u2014that\u2019s a situation where, for example, a school that might be zoned; there is an opportunity for someone who lives in that particular community that might in some circumstances be the only school that they\u2019re able to attend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003EThe Associate Minister of Education, in his response to that\u2014basically, Minister, you indicated that \u201CWell, that\u2019s happened for a wee while, and, you know, there\u2019s a whole process around charter schools that those in that community would form the view that the charter school was the best way to go, the approval process to one side.\u201D But it does limit the ability for members in that community to have any other choice if they are zoned for that school, and it may be a situation where the particular nature or specific special characteristics of the new charter school are at direct odds with a particular community of interest. In this particular case, I\u2019m referring to our Pasifika community, who may take issue with a particular charter school but, as the Minister has said, I think, it would be the only option that is available to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, when we look at new section 212T, that does provide an opportunity for a charter school to refuse a new student, but that is tied to the issue of the question of enrolment. My question is about, actually, not a new enrolment but, effectively, a conversion opportunity for someone who was a student at a school that was a State school that was now going to become a charter school. They have no other options because of where they live, and they are zoned for that school. If there is a family situation\u2014and I speak about our Pacific community, who are diametrically opposed to the particular issues or philosophy of a particular charter school. What opportunities are there for that particular aiga to ensure that they continue getting an education that meets the needs of their particular family?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262ff759d-9586-405a-a6e6-208ad65adeb5\u0022\u003ENow, I know that there is an opportunity for the ministry to provide a direction to enrol, but this is about a situation where it is a conversion opportunity, there are no other options\u2014how is that family, under this legislation, going to be able to effectively have that element of choice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u002242301e0c12fc4dd2870790bbc145c52f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242301e0c12fc4dd2870790bbc145c52f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I\u2019d note that Pasifika origin - New Zealanders have really embraced charter schools in the past and continue to do so. I think of Sir Michael Jones, Pacific Advance Secondary School; I think of Sita Selupe at the Rise UP Academy. Yet I don\u2019t believe it\u2019s ever right to say that\u00A0all Pacific people think or believe the same, so it\u2019s not necessarily true that a school would be antithetical to Pacific people, because Pacific people actually have a wide range of views.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s more, I think it really speaks to some of the contributions that\u2019ve been made earlier that I\u2019ve responded to. People have said, \u201CWell, perhaps if a majority of the community were in favour of a school, then it should be able to convert.\u201D, but I would take the opposite view that it is up to the Authorisation Board, as I\u2019ve stated\u2014and I\u2019m now being repetitive\u2014to make a judgment of whether there is community support. Of course, if there really were a group of people who were, as the member suggested, diametrically opposed and unable to be accommodated by the new charter school better than they were accommodated by the existing State school, then I think that would be very strong grounds for them not to approve the application.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u002298fdb51152a7492983a35675d760b3aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298fdb51152a7492983a35675d760b3aa\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022df9e0faee0e345558d049e1f16c62c9f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002205fbf4db74ee4e5b801083cd081d90f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205fbf4db74ee4e5b801083cd081d90f6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Amendment Paper 106 and the tabled amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d959cd858b284f34b2dab9866f51efa7\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226031311022eb47a9949ddfbbd258754f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226031311022eb47a9949ddfbbd258754f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments set out on Amendment Paper 112 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fc648136baeb4a7bb1a4dcc516c2fb9c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229cb9d822a65141d19a7e679b8540377f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cb9d822a65141d19a7e679b8540377f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments amending clauses 4 and 59 and deleting clauses 5 and 55 set out on Amendment Paper 113 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c958838dcc7e475c83619dc45001f539\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002242fa338cbe0041ff95ab4a22d6475dcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242fa338cbe0041ff95ab4a22d6475dcb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to clause 4 set out on Amendment Paper 114 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002221f44f010c0d4695b8741f5e08c6737b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002239a2b801327f46c982b991eba2f6423f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239a2b801327f46c982b991eba2f6423f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to clause 7 set out on Amendment Paper 115 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228cc0b9bafd754680ad4c449f2861a6b1\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226262bb0aa5ab4fe99f0118293ccd1546\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226262bb0aa5ab4fe99f0118293ccd1546\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to clause 14 set out on Amendment Paper 117 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002260affb4ebe9a462f8299037ed5856ed5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002273a38d9ccadf4d16bbc8daf8c72e4a7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273a38d9ccadf4d16bbc8daf8c72e4a7f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment inserting new clause 34A set out on Amendment Paper 116 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022217d7bcb7d954ac4b3348a699fefa7ad\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022af8c678dbde24453aed2d5a9ee2bf3f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af8c678dbde24453aed2d5a9ee2bf3f4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment deleting clause 46 set out on Amendment Paper 118 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s remaining amendments amending clauses\u00A035 and deleting clauses 43A to 45 set out on Amendment Paper 118 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e759e4c9dea04c2f9f402a7b8781ef59\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221bfe87e34a70428faa1e6e2fa25517b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bfe87e34a70428faa1e6e2fa25517b9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment deleting clauses 35 and 46 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the committee. The Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendments deleting clauses 44 and 45 are out of order as being the same as previous amendments. [Interruption] The voting is conducted in silence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new section 212B in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 85 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b3ce9b3c93a344b78e86b82f208f150a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022bff8391c981d46a6a92f883c9274609d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bff8391c981d46a6a92f883c9274609d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to new section 212F in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 86 be agreed\u00A0to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00221c874e6bd9b642408687ebc4fdc14a05\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b866044fa782408fbfac42f94bf936ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b866044fa782408fbfac42f94bf936ee\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendments to replace subsection (1) in new section 212F and delete new section 212G in clause 40 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002238d48b2f060e49fdadecfff0a5a9341f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00221bc58c752f4f4231ad7acd46b31b8050\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bc58c752f4f4231ad7acd46b31b8050\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to new section 212G in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 87 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e5e70b8351db44e4ab301e8229931942\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab06875394714e409d506bb8984549d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab06875394714e409d506bb8984549d4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to new section 212H in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 88 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ed88f94b0cd54b4294864a68207c8f2b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002241630efeccfd4658b68af656c0e624c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241630efeccfd4658b68af656c0e624c4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new section 212I in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 89 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222d249d35c0a6471e9a9de37ac9fb98ec\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022731518d8cb564eaab6ddf68890fc7255\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022731518d8cb564eaab6ddf68890fc7255\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendments to amend new section 212(4) and (5) in clause 40 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022907ac31210cb463896d3f2a68d482d58\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab5daf1c98a442ad9389d03043f35d5e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab5daf1c98a442ad9389d03043f35d5e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new section 212J in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 90 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ead3372e69094e668c5cdd6d9d8adcd0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1b59bfc42274b4ba2c2fb4bf8dfd0d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1b59bfc42274b4ba2c2fb4bf8dfd0d6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to insert new subsection (4)(a) in new section 212K in clause 40 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022716eed2c6de942638db9b80b8e5b192a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220fefba3c200b48ac8c1a9feaadcdc1ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fefba3c200b48ac8c1a9feaadcdc1ba\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new sections 212K and 212L in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper\u00A091 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002278c5485b0dfd4ea99bbb03a61159450b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022480a2171088440b28cfbb0fa94a92d21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022480a2171088440b28cfbb0fa94a92d21\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to new section 212L in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 92 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e45405e0545d42228598ced5aa7f1f19\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224fbfc7a2fd494eacb9c93a69ae8710c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224fbfc7a2fd494eacb9c93a69ae8710c9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to replace paragraph (e) in the new section 212O in clause 40 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a3e8ea3885b644f2838d90e3c35a3f00\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222251831e26a140b6b3832b6374fe38a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222251831e26a140b6b3832b6374fe38a9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to new section 212O in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 93 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002226e681d031d24a128ef61d9bad868bce\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0e241db53914dfa930b39b0073a99c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0e241db53914dfa930b39b0073a99c4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new section 212O in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 94 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f6c7f2426cf8445fa80df4b6d803af04\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022779d56627d614131a2bb69c2c41f416e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022779d56627d614131a2bb69c2c41f416e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to replace paragraph (l) in new section 212O in clause 40 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022aefd995dc79341b398bbcd0df09ee10f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00228021399d6bde4886b15c83f69e04bc46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228021399d6bde4886b15c83f69e04bc46\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new section 212P and 212Q in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 95 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f1a1b6e38916421b8460a1ba9daa2882\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022058378fa01dc4d3e8d0c30549e587d8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022058378fa01dc4d3e8d0c30549e587d8a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to new section 212Q in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 96 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a0d2e1153a234e6b8244e745831c95ef\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022443fcf675775413a995349c322b5e41f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022443fcf675775413a995349c322b5e41f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new section 212T in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 97 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220b60d96afcc041e4b72a4653b59a9f7f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00225b2bc8b908764b9d938220894077e687\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b2bc8b908764b9d938220894077e687\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendments to new section 212R in clause 40 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e5577093fbd24cd8827d91ba5742fd46\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe0dc972d5d94431833cc8fa8b03ac36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe0dc972d5d94431833cc8fa8b03ac36\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new sections 212T, 212V, and 212W in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 119 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223511cf71b8934c0db2d5c10f9f45a350\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d82d82b016b547c783998e47e04b58e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d82d82b016b547c783998e47e04b58e1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to insert subsection (8) in new section 212T in clause 40 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022fc479859b221455a93f4047e1038a403\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3daaf2c33394a729e63aed0c84b7abb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3daaf2c33394a729e63aed0c84b7abb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new section 212U in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 98 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002264f538734af64b18b8475530c324f34d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022882894d772a941b5b71194745d1c04ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022882894d772a941b5b71194745d1c04ae\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new section 212V in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 99 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002263a64327d33241a796486768c74fd35b\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022eab788051ba4460fa0c576f34f81b592\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eab788051ba4460fa0c576f34f81b592\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to new section 212W in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 100 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a970f264661d410e9b2d709eb78aa64f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002231457388eb59462297a4c673217dc5b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002231457388eb59462297a4c673217dc5b0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to new section 212Z in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 101 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00222e13262c14b940b1a30c849c4b5607a9\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002271b2674c92a145d39a51f2f678cd308f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271b2674c92a145d39a51f2f678cd308f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to delete new section 212ZCA in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 102 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ff283ff3eede4a80bb49e57e25bf226c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00223cb2df003ef8463694c2bd1a93829613\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cb2df003ef8463694c2bd1a93829613\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to delete new section 212ZCA in clause 40 is out of order as being the same as a previous amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to replace new section 212ZCA in clause 40 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227ad1af97ea3d439fbddb9fdb0af48298\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222c7face4d3fb49149a6901d2ca040ca1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c7face4d3fb49149a6901d2ca040ca1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new section 212ZD inserting new section 212ZFA in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 103 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224d89abe6237848349e9946d42a310156\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022889377c7a58a46818767d947748145a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022889377c7a58a46818767d947748145a5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendments to new section 212ZD in clause 40 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d746a5bf234b4df8a8daa6db297eb8e5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022208d623009544f389ab297fe45887d6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022208d623009544f389ab297fe45887d6b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to new section 212E in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 104 be agreed\u00A0to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c793ab5b0d9b4cf5aca4e277967fdf94\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022526480c9c7a445f3a7b1ab9508a1c6be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022526480c9c7a445f3a7b1ab9508a1c6be\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to insert new section 212ZFA in clause 40 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f03cecbcdf854efda8173c3a6d83e109\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9fab45f8c0449d6b60da637b2d1e9ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9fab45f8c0449d6b60da637b2d1e9ac\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to delete new section 212ZH in clause 40 set out on Amendment Paper 105 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d2f36e7c6ee34d12a76ed1299786c2bf\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222798c4815c7647358930daa2ac047419\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222798c4815c7647358930daa2ac047419\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Camilla Belich\u2019s tabled amendment to delete new section 212ZH in clause 40 is out of order as being the same as a previous amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s amendment to new section 212ZH in clause\u00A040 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c40bc869b9844051b8ec697d4377b191\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022ded4f1617c264ff593c28221e71a8bb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ded4f1617c264ff593c28221e71a8bb3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next vote, the Minister probably should be setting an example of making sure these votes are heard in silence\u2014particularly when they\u2019re going across the floor. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new section 237A in clause 42 set out on Amendment Paper 120 be agreed to. All those in favour say Aye, to the contrary, No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e927dcab1be8406ea2bed79d7c7454c3\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: No. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244270c3d098a4a3599b4915c40bf72f8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The Noes have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa1259c004fb4fc2b68d0ecd44626068\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s have a party vote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225246323f3eb4495396874647038b1ec3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, the member can\u2019t call for a party vote, because he actually voted for it. Did someone else call for a party vote? Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ee08c49841304f3d814e091bea1fd26f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbf8eaeb82464a258a9e4aa34306b126\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbf8eaeb82464a258a9e4aa34306b126\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendment to new section 548A in clause 53 set out on Amendment Paper 121 be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c865006b6b9f40c48839037e71703e48\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220b6bb51784294836b2db0640256972a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b6bb51784294836b2db0640256972a0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s amendments to new section 601A in clause 53A set out on Amendment Paper 122 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cefc0986ff1e4551afca69fc194ab577\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022e27017fcc0fb4a9eb4e11c8eec59039a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e27017fcc0fb4a9eb4e11c8eec59039a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Jan Tinetti\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 53A be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002241a80978da1b45c9a5d4386a097ab6b4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00227adba7b61031463c9bc3d8b1d9788279\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002237656250eef8410ba5853e5e0458886b\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to other legislation and revocation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002257a801522a85401b921e09201e9b3b01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257a801522a85401b921e09201e9b3b01\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 2, which is the debate on clauses 63AAA to 70, \u201CAmendments to other legislation and revocation\u201D, and Schedule 4. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00225088d90c71524f1ea567977b47d9969b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225088d90c71524f1ea567977b47d9969b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, as you have just described, there is a total of whatever 70 minus 63 plus 2 is\u2014so about nine clauses here. They\u2019re all very short. They variously amend the Ombudsmen Act to add the Charter Schools Authorisation Board and, also, a sponsor of a charter school to Schedule 1 of the Ombudsmen Act. They also amend the Public Audit Act to include the Charter Schools Authorisation Board to the list of entities listed in the Public Audit Act. They also amend the Public Records Act, again to add the Charter Schools Authorisation Board to that. That\u2019s because we\u2019re creating a public entity in the Charter Schools Authorisation Board that will have some responsibilities, and therefore it has to be accountable under those various pieces of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThere are also further consequential amendments to the Education (Early Childhood Services Network Approval) Regulations, which stand separate from the principal Act. They will be revoked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThe only other thing I failed to mention at the beginning is clause 63AAA and clause 63AAB\u2014which are not actually battery sizes but clauses of Part 2!\u2014and the intention of those clauses is to exempt charter schools which do not operate for a profit from local government rates. That is the status of most State schools, and if they\u2019re operating a school for not-for-profit, particularly one that used to be a State schools and become a charter school, they should be able to maintain their status of being exempt from council rates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb1af9fe7af24f07951acf6add9b6dee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb1af9fe7af24f07951acf6add9b6dee\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve got a quick question about clause 63AAA and the amendment of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002. I noticed that there\u2019s been quite a bit of media recently about pan taxes that some schools have to get at the local area and they have to pay those. I\u2019m wondering if this amendment here to exempt charter schools from the Local Government (Rating) Act also applies to the pan taxes that State schools have to pay. I know that\u2019s a point of contention with many State schools. I\u2019m wondering if the Minister could give some answer to that, please, because if that\u2019s right, there is a serious inequity between State schools and charter schools that will need fixing up pretty quickly. I\u2019d really like an answer to that, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002280e89f7ba9de452ea879d322ce60a850\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280e89f7ba9de452ea879d322ce60a850\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. While the Minister gets some advice around what the Hon Jan Tinetti just asked regarding clauses 63AAA and 63AAB in Part 2, I would like to draw the Minister\u2019s attention to clauses 63 and 64, which is around an amendment to the Ombudsmen Act 1975.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EClause 64 amends Schedule 1, Part 2 of the Ombudsmen Act 1975, specifically inserting \u201CCharter Schools Authorisation Board\u201D as well as \u201Csponsor\u201D. Now, \u201CCharter Schools Authorisation Board\u201D I get, and \u201Csponsor\u201D I also get. However, when we are looking at Schedule 1, Part 2 of the Ombudsmen Act it says, \u201CPublic service agencies and organisations to which the Act applies\u201D. One of the things we heard as part of the Ombudsman\u2019s submission is the dichotomy that this creates. The fact that charter schools, and particularly the \u201Csponsor\u201D here, is applicable under the Ombudsmen Act\u2014but, again, not to the Official Information Act (OIA)\u2014creates a level of dichotomy that the Ombudsman himself said would be adding extra bureaucracy and a barrier to the way that any parent or anyone could potentially request information. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy understanding is that, under normal circumstances, a school or institute can be subject to the OIA and they simply request this via the right agencies, but the fact that charter schools cannot be subject to the OIA but the charter school, and particularly in this case the sponsor, is still forced and is obliged under the Ombudsmen Act means that, in some ways, anyone who would like to get information on the charter school has to then go through the avenue and the medium of the Ombudsman. You kind of create this additional step in terms of the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI would like some advice from the Minister in terms of whether he has had a look at the Ombudsman\u2019s submission and what he thinks in terms of this particular trickiness that has been established between the two. So, yes, this would be specifically around the way Schedule 1, Part 2 of the Ombudsmen Act applies to the sponsor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022 data-id=\u0022acbc1ca0111c490995b871de3470d442\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acbc1ca0111c490995b871de3470d442\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E I want to talk about new section 119, inserted by Part 6, in Schedule 1, and it relates to the amendment that is being debated this afternoon that deletes clause 6, that states that section 119(6) overrides the protections in Part 6A of the Employment Relations Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe reason I want to raise this is that pretty much all of the discussion we\u2019ve had so far has been about people who work in schools as being teachers, but there are a number of other occupational groups in schools, as we all know\u2014school caretakers, cleaners, and others\u2014and the effect of the bill is to really take away existing rights that they enjoy under Part 6A of the Employment Relations Act. School caretakers and canteen workers and cleaners and cleaning contractors all have collective agreements that rely in some part on Part 6A of the Employment Relations Act. Part 6A essentially identifies what it refers to as \u201Cvulnerable workers\u201D\u2014that is, workers who are employed in sectors where restructuring of an employer\u2019s business occurs frequently, whose terms and conditions of employment tend to be undermined by that restructuring, and who have little bargaining power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EWhat Part 6A does is that it gives employees a right to elect to transfer to the new employer, to elect or not; it gives those who have transferred a right to bargain for redundancy entitlements; and if redundancy entitlements in that instance cannot be agreed with the new employer, to have the redundancy entitlements determined by the authority. Those are significant rights for this group of workers. There are a lot of people who do these jobs in schools who may well be affected by the establishment of charter schools. The loss of rights basically consists of the fact that the bill only gives them the right to transfer on conditions \u201Cno less favourable overall\u201D; whereas Part 6A guarantees the same terms and conditions of employment or better. Now, there is a difference between those two things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cc3d3b5c79d4921a073e33b6fb88b77\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014which part are you referring to here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0d2a20254c2423cad9b50e6e3cfa987\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Part 6A of the Employment Relations Act, which is, basically, overridden in Schedule 1, Part 6. New section 119, inserted by Schedule 1, Part 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f56eb01353d9494586c3094dad136022\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Gotcha, thank you. Yes, I\u2019ve got that. Thank you for explaining that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229d70a20c777463ca3855c932d2e6a6d\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Part 6, new section 119. The reason it\u2019s important is that it takes away the right. The first is that, under Part 6A, cleaners, caretakers, canteen workers, and so on are guaranteed the same rights or better, and by taking away the protection of Part 6A, basically, they\u2019re only assured of conditions no less favourable overall. That is a different thing, and it\u2019s very likely, I believe, that this provision would lead to considerable dispute and argument and litigation if it were passed as written. Also\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e21bdf42fa0640e7b0c1d66b3d316e48\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Twyford\u2014the only schedule we\u2019re discussing here is actually Schedule 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c26dcc9ee88409aaa3b0bd3a626e53f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Chairman, earlier this afternoon I raised matters in my contribution about Schedule 1, and our colleague Barbara Kuriger, who was in the Chair at the time, ruled that we were not going to discuss that in Part 1 and that we would have to deal with it later. So, with respect, sir, you can\u2019t have it both ways. We have to be able to discuss these schedules, either in Part 1 or in Part 2, and Barbara Kuriger ruled that we could not discuss Schedule 1 matters earlier this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243aaa750316144c180683079ee4bab8f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: All right, given the time of night, I\u2019m happy to let the member carry on given that that was the instruction then. I\u2019ll give largesse for that now, so carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229eefd205937941cf8c560b05e708aa62\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: OK, thank you, Mr Chairman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273e0ff5ce91c4c64b36b990d420aea68\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. There\u2019s just a couple of things in there I\u2019d like some clarification on. You said, \u201Cgiven the time of night\u201D and \u201Cfor now\u201D, so at what point can we expect absolute clarity on this? I\u2019d hate for there to be any confusion given the possibility of having a different presiding officer at the resumption of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebd385e7d87c48858fadd93b5a468705\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, and that\u2019s fair enough. My intention was to actually discuss this with the previous presiding officer so I could give that instruction at the beginning. I am taking cognisance that we have only got less than probably 10 minutes to go, so rather than\u2014to keep the order of the committee, and I\u2019m sure the Minister in the chair is quite able to, if he has the opportunity, either defer this or not answer this or answer it. So carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9f7538fe1a748b08a17fccf03e6da9f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. The second point that\u2019s relevant here is that the bill does not give the worker the right to elect to transfer or not. That is a right that is enshrined in Part 6A of the Employment Relations Act, and it is taken away by this bill. It removes an element of choice. I thought this bill was all about choice, but apparently not for a significant group of workers who are going to be affected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThe bill also overrides the right of workers to maintain their collective employment relationship with the new employer. Part 6A of the Employment Relations Act stipulates the transfer not just of the existing workers but also that they take their relevant collective\u00A0agreement with them. Of course, that is impossible under this bill, not only because Part\u00A06A is taken away but because this bill outlaws multi-employer collective agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cbc37df2-57ae-4536-94ed-a2e39eecd585\u0022\u003EThose are the main points, and I really ask the Minister: what possible justification could there be for confiscating existing employment rights for a very specific group of workers in this bill, other than kind of a vindictive desire to weaken employment rights of vulnerable workers. I can\u2019t see what could possibly be the justification, but if there is one, I\u2019d like to hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022 data-id=\u00220648048caab547d0b163e1e31aa92918\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220648048caab547d0b163e1e31aa92918\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I respond to Jan Tinetti\u2019s question about the pan tax, and I have to admit I needed to look this up, but people may be interested to know that some councils in some parts of New Zealand are imposing a special charge on property owners, including schools, for the number of toilets that they have. Economics being a real thing\u2014although you wouldn\u2019t always think it to hear from then other side\u2014people are responding to incentives, and schools are actually talking about reducing their numbers of toilets in response to this tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why you shouldn\u2019t tax things so much, folks. It can lead to a reduction in places to pee. So it\u2019s very important that we get this right. We are not explicitly exempting charter schools from the pan tax; we\u2019re giving them the same exemption that State schools have. Depending on the council, they will face the same challenge that State schools would have. We\u2019re not trying to differentiate them here; we\u2019re just putting them in the same position as State schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003ELawrence Xu-Nan asked about the changes to the Ombudsmen Act. All I can say is that we\u2019ve extensively debated the policy behind the Official Information Act and its application to charter schools. These are consequential amendments designed to put in place that policy and they are necessary to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003EI hesitate to engage in a policy debate about employment law, but what I can say to Mr Twyford is that there\u2019s certainly no vindictiveness here. Perhaps he\u2019s measuring the minds of others by his own, but that\u2019s not how we think. On this side of Parliament, we are interested in creating better opportunities for children and being able to organise the school and the terms of employment of the adults for the greatest benefit of the children. We think that\u2019s a very worthwhile desire that doesn\u2019t require any sort of vindictiveness or speculation of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u002269ae42c529b84e38b6329e48995879ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269ae42c529b84e38b6329e48995879ec\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d just like to thank the Minister for that answer about the pan tax. It is something that very few people know about, but it is a big bugbear to schools that they have to pay that. I\u2019ll just give an example of that, Minister, and I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve probably seen the same thing that I\u2019ve seen, but Greytown School\u2014which I know my colleague over here will be very interested in\u2014has 33 toilets and is paying $37,000 in pan tax. I also just want to make members aware that it\u2019s not just the pan tax that they pay; it\u2019s also rubbish collection and it\u2019s a whole lot of different things that different councils will charge. It is worth looking into to make sure that inequities don\u2019t exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EI deliberately didn\u2019t talk about things that were in Schedule 1 earlier because of that ruling that was made at the time, when we were told that we were not talking about Schedule 1 at that stage. I do want to just return to talk about an amendment that I had put forward around the early childhood network planning that was in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003ELook, I know that this legislation is going to pass, but all of the amendments were written in the great faith that this would actually improve the situation for this particular bill. The one that was in Schedule 1 was an amendment to new clause 111 in Schedule 1, which I had put in there, and it was to replace words in subclause (2) to say that the conditions no longer apply in relation to the approval on and after commencement, except where a centre applies to establish within a 1-kilometre radius of another already existing early childcare centre. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003EThe reason that I developed and came up with this particular amendment was because we had heard from people in the select committee about the number of centres that were being established within very close proximity to each other. We heard that there were centres that were closing because other centres were sprouting up and were looking flasher, even if they weren\u2019t delivering as good or even delivering a similar quality of education, because they had that shiny new bling situation about them. It was a specific fear for our centres such\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9d6b153e1fb4cbfa4ea8490d64078d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9d6b153e1fb4cbfa4ea8490d64078d6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member, but the time has come for me to report progress. At the same time, I will consult with my colleagues and I\u2019ll ensure that the member gets the first call next time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d298498aa91946ee8b78e0b7a4c754e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d298498aa91946ee8b78e0b7a4c754e4\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Education and Training Amendment Bill and reports that it has made progress on the bill. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223efe1b04d25d404ba4b4691efc6c66b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223efe1b04d25d404ba4b4691efc6c66b8\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House now stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 24\u00A0September 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240919dd0682bf8f2145639ba65a8405a740af000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"