"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e6bdb4109244b3cbd17d103ff0cca45\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226dd32497041e406bbe3a8040c34dc7d5\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff3e29b228f54543a666e8a565f96efd\u0022\u003EKARAKIA/PRAYERS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225a8a38b3ebd24ac4a4bc14e695dc10d6\u0022\u003EKARAKIA/PRAYERS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002210b3fb9fb4ff42e197e8f2aad922357e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210b3fb9fb4ff42e197e8f2aad922357e\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E \u5168\u80FD\u5605\u4E0A\u5E1D\uFF0C\u6211\u54CB\u591A\u8B1D\u7962\u8CDC\u7540\u6211\u54CB\u5605\u795D\u798F\u3002\u6487\u958B\u6240\u6709\u500B\u4EBA\u5229\u76CA\uFF0C\u6211\u54CB\u5411\u56FD\u738B\u81F4\u656C\uFF0C\u4E26\u7948\u6C42\u55BA\u6211\u54CB\u5605\u8A0E\u8AD6\u4E2D\u6307\u5F15\u6211\u54CB\uFF0C\u53E6\u6211\u54CB\u80FD\u5920\u4EE5\u667A\u6167\u3001\u516C\u7FA9\u3001\u4EC1\u611B\u540C\u8B19\u5351\u8655\u7406\u5462\u500B\u8B70\u6703\u5605\u4E8B\u52D9\uFF0C\u70BA\u5497\u65B0\u897F\u5170\u5605\u798F\u7949\u540C\u548C\u5E73\u800C\u52AA\u529B\u3002 \u963F\u9580\u3002\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAlmighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed upon us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022874e648bade849999cfc7835e04dc0d0\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f7704ea6ab5424280670a1571f1ded3\u0022\u003EUnited Arab Emirates\u2014Minister of State for Foreign Trade\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224917d1dd989e4453bb9215104a68e96e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224917d1dd989e4453bb9215104a68e96e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I am sure that you will want, along with me, to welcome to His Excellency Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi, Minister of State for Foreign Trade of the United Arab Emirates, and his accompanying delegation, who are present in the gallery. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002249a6dcea6c0e4262abddcb011c3c44da\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4cf1da2db3545f9a4f526ade622136c\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022408eec02cb6740afa0bbc4e50624f6cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022408eec02cb6740afa0bbc4e50624f6cd\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Today the House will adjourn until Tuesday, 15 October. In that week, the House will consider the second readings of the Gambling (Definition of Remote Interactive Gambling) Amendment Bill, the Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, and the Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Wednesday will be a members\u2019 day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a4ded543923457886cd96ddd71fd694\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223b47a0443f454f1cba40fa5aaa14186b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2 to Minister, 19 September\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9e91ec0a4aa4d518e6b259314abc34e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9e91ec0a4aa4d518e6b259314abc34e\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to make a personal explanation to correct a statement I made in question time on Thursday, 19 September. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ff74ec1aea140ef851fcbe9741de9ad\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9a7289639e44a0aa44faa97a7ab56dc\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: On the advice of the Ministry of Transport, the Hon Matt Doocey responded to an oral question on my behalf that referenced \u201Cdefault speed limits\u201D in six countries. This morning, the Ministry of Transport corrected this advice to remove the word \u201Cdefault\u201D. The correct statement is that Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Japan, Denmark, and England all have speed limits of 50 kilometres per hour on urban roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e54774d9ee734f94aa84244d000f85f5\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c1589cdc176455383276bc4ccc3d18c\u0022\u003EPETITIONS, PAPERS, SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS, AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00228d6145ecad414c0699987e47202d027e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d6145ecad414c0699987e47202d027e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002288bf8c7017df493c9ed801d9aef7dc43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288bf8c7017df493c9ed801d9aef7dc43\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Barbara Kuriger MP requesting that the House urge the Government to ensure access to Te Rapa and Hamilton North by reopening Ruffell Road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022edae361a6bae42c8802a37ac474708aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edae361a6bae42c8802a37ac474708aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00228c79d4481efc44fa82e1b4a23a984fd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c79d4481efc44fa82e1b4a23a984fd3\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EGovernment response to the referral of the petition of Katrina Mitchell-Kouttab: Gaza - call for New Zealand to take further actions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2023-24 annual reports for:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EAnimal Control Products Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Parole Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00220ee50aa0592c4893b59b72d948bf990b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ee50aa0592c4893b59b72d948bf990b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I present the report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled Improving Auckland Council\u2019s emergency preparedness: A follow-up report. I also present an erratum to the report of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment entitled A review of fresh water models used to support the regulation and management of water in New Zealand. Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022e168b1bc7bab49b78fa6d8b4a1907dcd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e168b1bc7bab49b78fa6d8b4a1907dcd\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReports of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereview briefing on the 2022-23 annual review of the Institute of Environmental Science and Research Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereview briefing on the 2022-23 annual review of the Institute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the review briefing on the 2022-23 annual review of New Zealand Green Investment Finance Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Health Committee on the Petition of Lucy Mullinger\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Primary Production Committee on the Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc1c675fdbea43cdbc9255c962d3b726\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc1c675fdbea43cdbc9255c962d3b726\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for second reading. The briefings are set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb66a7437ec84ef5aba4fa80caf11367\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed3bf4f2246242d9a5bfab137925f490\u0022\u003EComprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement\u2014Conclusion of Negotiations with United Arab Emirates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u002276ba45ea50e9405f9c3ba6ffbb6717df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276ba45ea50e9405f9c3ba6ffbb6717df\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister for Trade):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to make a ministerial statement on the Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement with the United Arab Emirates (UAE). Firstly, I\u2019d like to welcome my friend and colleague, His Excellency Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi, the United Arab Emirates Minister of State for Foreign Trade, and his delegation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EEarlier today, we were pleased to announce the successful conclusion of the New Zealand - United Arab Emirates Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement, or CEPA, just over four months after we launched the negotiations in Dubai on 7 May this year. This agreement is one of the most ambitious and liberalising of any trade agreement to date. I want to thank Dr Thani and his team for their dedication and professionalism and the pragmatic way our teams have worked together to reach this agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThis high-quality trade agreement will grant New Zealand duty-free access for 98.5\u00A0percent of our exports to the UAE upon the agreement\u2019s entry into force, rising to 99 percent after three years. This is an exciting development for our farmers, manufacturers, services, and digital exporters and our investors, and supports our Government\u2019s goal of doubling the value of exports in 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe UAE is a top 20 export market for New Zealand, one of our largest markets in the Middle East. As a vital logistics hub, it serves as a gateway for many of our companies into the wider region. This agreement will enhance our cooperation in areas such as agriculture, sustainable energy, and the aviation and maritime sectors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ESignificantly, the CEPA provides major benefits to our agricultural sector, offering new opportunities in a world increasingly marked by protectionism. Beyond tariff elimination, the CEPA includes strong commitments on services, Government procurement, and in investment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe CEPA\u2019s investment facilitation chapter and a bilateral investment treaty concluded alongside the CEPA will create a framework for investment between our countries, providing investors with confidence that their investments will be treated fairly and equitably by the other party, helping to encourage greater investment flows. This agreement does not include investor-State dispute settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EBeyond the numbers, the agreement also includes chapters on intellectual property, sustainable development, labour, sustainable agriculture, climate, and on indigenous trade. We\u2019ve also secured New Zealand\u2019s Treaty of Waitangi exceptions to allow us to continue to meet Treaty obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EWhy does this matter? Well, we face increasing challenges in the global environment, from food security concerns to climate change and geopolitical tensions. In such times, it\u2019s critical that we act to support the international rules - based trading system and grow our prosperity. Strengthening our international connections through trade is an essential focus for me as Minister and this Government. Trade is a stabilising force that fosters shared benefits and cooperation and can enhance people-to-people linkages. It remains a crucial engine for economic growth, lifting incomes and helping economies to respond to global shocks. Trading nations like New Zealand and the UAE look outwards. We champion global connections and benefit from the free flow of goods, services, capital, and ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe Government is focused on growing the economy and easing the cost of living for New Zealanders. Strengthening global connections is one of the key strategies to achieve this. Trade supports one in four jobs in New Zealand, with export-related jobs paying better wages than those that are not involved with export. Exporting firms are also generally more productive and faster growing than non-exporting firms. That\u2019s why we\u2019re committed to increasing the value of our exports, expanding market access, and breaking down trade barriers. The swift conclusion of this high-quality agreement reflects that commitment. Now that we have done so, I look forward to working towards signature, ensuring that New Zealand and UAE exporters understand how to take full advantage of this agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EI wish to extend my sincere thanks again to His Excellency Minister Al Zeyoudi and to the UAE business delegation for their interest in fostering deeper ties with New Zealand businesses. Together, we\u2019ll ensure that this agreement delivers real value for both nations and for the citizens of New Zealand and the UAE. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022259e1cd95150459b98175670b37ad86b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022259e1cd95150459b98175670b37ad86b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. In the absence of Damien O\u2019Connor, it falls to me to comment on behalf of the Labour Party. Can I congratulate the Minister and the Government for concluding this agreement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI want to say a little about its history. New Zealand got quite close to finalising this agreement in 2008, and then on the Gulf side, there was a request made by the Gulf Cooperation Council for the United Arab Emirates (UAE) to conclude the agreement through that apparatus, and that then became disrupted with events in the region rather than on this side. As a consequence, after the 2008 election, the National Government continued to proceed with other agreements such as the early negotiations or continuation of the negotiations with the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP). We then came to Government, knocked off the finishing off of CPTPP, and prioritising other agreements like the European free-trade agreement, which we landed; the UK free-trade agreement, which we landed; the China upgrade; and the ASEAN-Australia - New Zealand Free Trade Agreement upgrade. It\u2019s good now to come back and conclude the agreement with the United Arab Emirates outside of the Gulf cooperation framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ETrade agreements can\u2019t be relied upon to cure all of the ills in the world. It\u2019s unrealistic to expect that trade agreements will have binding environmental and labour obligations that are so high that they will cure all of the labour and environmental problems in the world, but trade agreements ought to do the lifting that they are able to do in advance of those very worthy goals. I\u2019m pleased to hear that there are both trade and labour and environmental standards in this agreement, including as to objectives for climate change. That is good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn respect of the investment protocols, can I congratulate the Minister for carrying forward the position in respect of investor-State dispute settlement (ISDS) clauses. The House will be aware that there has been a backlash against those agreements in the world where civil society has not liked the fact that foreign multinationals can sue Governments under ISDS clauses for breaches of trade agreements, and we, when in Government, reached the view that those enforcement mechanisms should be Government to Government, rather than corporates against Government. We thank the Government for carrying that forward in respect of this agreement and for the UAE agreeing to that change of position, which is a change of position for the UAE and I think settles down, or is likely to settle down, societal acceptance of agreements such as these.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe final two points I would make are in respect of overseas investment protocols. New Zealand is well protected in respect of the issues that we can still screen for in respect of inward investment, which includes, under our regime, infrastructure with monopoly characteristics, obviously issues that have security ramifications, rural horticulture, forestry, and residential land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ELastly, could I pass on my thanks to the UAE Government for the cooperation that they showed during COVID. Only some members will be aware that there were a lot of phone calls made at the time of COVID to try and keep air links between different parts of the world open. None of these routes were profitable. New Zealand, through Air New Zealand, supported some routes. I recall phoning the then trade Minister of the UAE, asking the Emirates to keep their route open to New Zealand, albeit less frequently. Different calls were made to the likes of Singapore, and between work through the ministries in all of these different parts of the world, we actually managed to maintain air connectivity for the rest of the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, that had both trade benefits, and it enabled returning New Zealanders to get home and people to return to their other countries, albeit with restrictions around managed isolation and quarantine, but it also managed to help feed people in other parts of the world who were reliant on protein and other food from New Zealand, which also helped our exporters, and of course it was heavily subsidised by the Government, although some of the consequences of that for the deficit of the time seem to be more controversial now than they were at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ESo, with those comments, can I congratulate the Government and congratulate the UAE as well on this day, and I look forward to participating in the consideration of the national interest analysis when it comes before the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae34d3eba63245dea918e55f19f95967\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae34d3eba63245dea918e55f19f95967\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I too rise as the Green Party spokesperson for\u00A0trade, and, firstly, also to congratulate the Minister for Trade, the Hon Todd McClay, on this Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement (CEPA). There are a couple of\u00A0things I would like to address before, if I may. I have a few questions for the Minister, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe first thing is also to thank the Minister for upholding his commitment to not include the investor-State dispute settlement (ISDS) process, which is something that he has committed to in this agreement. This is something that, as we\u2019ve seen with some of the previous trade agreements, the Green Party feels very strongly around, particularly when it comes to the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement as well as the regret around retainment of the ISDS in the second protocol of the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe other thing that the Minister mentioned in terms of some of the tariff elements is also something that we\u2019re very interested in in terms of the benefits to Aotearoa New Zealand, but not just to those peak bodies but also particularly to those smaller companies and your kind of ground level, smaller, locally producing farmers. It is also not just from a local perspective but also from what is going to be the future, and one of the bulwarks, one of the strongholds, for organic production in the region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EA couple of the questions I do have for the Minister. Now, one of the things that we\u2019ve seen is around the new strategy for Trade For All. I want to also draw the House\u2019s attention to the Standing Orders review that was conducted last year around the review of the international treaty process, particularly when it comes to the idea of public consultation, because, understandably, when we\u2019re looking at international treaties and agreements, it is one of the areas that the Government\u2014the executive\u2014has absolute control over, and yet it\u2019s not up for public consultation during the select committee process until much later, when the agreement is signed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EConsidering the announcement that the Minister has made, my first question is: what public consultation has actually taken place? Based on the time line that is available, there are a lot of conversations between the two parties involved, but I\u2019m not seeing a lot of consultation with the general public, particularly, in this case. I understand and thank the Minister for having sort of M\u0101ori requirements around Te Tiriti o Waitangi, but in this particular case, what hap\u016B or iwi have been explicitly involved in part of the decision-making process and have they been adequately heard? That\u2019s my first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy second question to the Minister is that, in looking at the trade, it\u2019s incredibly important and it\u2019s going to be incredibly beneficial, but, as we see with all trade agreements, there are also certain checks and balances that need to be in place and certain measures for accountability that need to be in place, and that is something that I have not been able to find at present. Hopefully, the broader reads of the full CEPA will be enlightening around this, but I want to ask the Minister: in terms of the agreement itself and measures for accountability, what accountability is there in terms of the obligations of Aotearoa and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) under the Paris Agreement, particularly not just in terms of sustainable energy but also climate mitigation and climate adaptation internationally? I know that the UAE, for example, has done a lot of work in the Pacific region. However, I\u00A0am asking specifically about internally and domestically when it comes to some of those measures for accountability, both for Aotearoa as well as for the UAE.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe second part is in terms of some of the other elements of measures of accountability around things such as involvement in workers\u2019 rights, particularly when it comes to elements of modern slavery\u2014which I know that Aotearoa is very interested in\u2014as well as other elements in terms of contributions to war, which I\u2019m sure that the Minister will agree is currently a very hot topic in the general region of the Middle East as well as the Arab Gulf. In this particular case, what are some of the measures for those kinds of involvements and checks and balances within that particular agreement? If the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind answering, that would be great. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ELastly, I would like to also extend a warm welcome\u2014al salam alaikum\u2014to Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi from the UAE.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022 data-id=\u00227d7a55df36d3470e97c581de0ce68d92\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d7a55df36d3470e97c581de0ce68d92\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister for Trade):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you, and I thank my two colleagues for their thoughts and their best wishes and gratitude to our visitor. It shows Parliament can be at its best on behalf of New Zealanders when we focus on the things that are important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003ETo David Parker: the reason that the Integrated Cargo System is not in this is actually that the interests of New Zealanders, when they invest overseas, can be met government to government in agreements like that\u2014very similar to previous agreements passed through the House. It\u2019s the same response, I think, to my colleague from the Green Party Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn as far as the public\u2019s involvement in the negotiation of trade agreements is concerned, as with previous Governments, we have to balance out understanding the views of the public and getting the very best deal for all of them. Sometimes it\u2019s not advantageous to either side to be negotiating in public, but we go out before we start an agreement and we seek the views of industry groups, of unions, of iwi, and many others\u2014as well as members of the public where we can\u2014as to what are the important issues to put into the agreement. Then we follow through with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EDuring a negotiation, where it is necessary to go back to the various groups\u2014more often the business community but not only the business community\u2014negotiators and the ministry are able to do so. Then, finally, upon agreement, we talk directly to a range of stakeholders including iwi groups\u2014some directly, who have interest in the trade themselves\u2014but the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, at the time of the last Government, set up a number of iwi representative groups that we engage with often and seek their views and value their views which inform this outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EIn as far as the Standing Orders are concerned, a trade agreement is not able to\u2014nor should it\u2014have an effect upon those. However, from the point of view of ensuring that all New Zealanders have the opportunity to understand that trade delivers benefits to every single person in New Zealand, we will be as open as we can in providing information and having them have a view to comment. Indeed, when the legislation to enact comes through Parliament, you should expect not only a full committee opportunity hearing for people, but at the same time we\u2019ve had occasions where we\u2019ve reached agreement that we can have a debate in Parliament about that rather than it just going through quietly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EThe member also mentioned a number of other areas around climate change, and so on. The texts are very similar to other agreements. No agreement is ever the same, because\u00A0it\u2019s a negotiation, but to give you an example, the United Arab Emirates and New Zealand both have significant interest in the Government\u2019s focus on renewable energy. Indeed, the United Arab Emirates (UAE) spends a lot of money in the UAE and around the world to work with others to develop new types of sustainable energy that can meet the requirements as well as climate change. The spirit of that, though, remains in this agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c0f78f60-c2fd-46f4-8138-72f39692fc20\u0022\u003EAlthough I won\u2019t go to all of the different parts about the checks and balances, the member mentioned the labour outcomes in the agreement. The trade and sustainable development chapter recognises the importance of the International Labour Organization (ILO) Constitution and ILO Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work that\u2019s been in previous agreements. It is followed through to this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022 data-id=\u00224c6d9ffe420c4806a055fba5703a1d06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c6d9ffe420c4806a055fba5703a1d06\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. On behalf of ACT, I would like to join the Minister in welcoming His Excellency Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi, the United Arab Emirates (UAE) Minister of State for Foreign Trade, and his delegation. ACT would like to thank the officials of both countries, New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates, who have worked to get this excellent agreement completed. It\u2019s especially great that the deal has been announced while His Excellency Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi and his delegation is still here. The speed with which this deal was achieved, combined with the extent to which trade barriers have been removed, sets an impressive benchmark for future deals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EFree trade is a win-win. Kiwi dairy farmers, meat producers, and manufacturers will be able to sell more products at competitive prices to the people of the UAE, who will, in turn, benefit from greater choice and competition. In return, New Zealanders will be able to access products from UAE businesses with fewer tariffs and barriers, and this is important as we work to address the cost of living. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258eae615-ef83-4df5-bace-6749bdd312a8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also great to see that other than the tariff elimination, the agreement includes commitments for equal access to services, Government procurement, and investment too. ACT is strongly pro-trade. We believe that the free exchange of goods between different countries is key to lifting human prosperity. Trade also fosters diplomacy, peace, and friendship between different peoples. As a nation, New Zealand ought to promote the value of trade unapologetically, especially as we advance negotiations with our next major trade deal with India. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239c1fd332ae74e7f9e9efd585aedada3\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec295e9a29f24251b9a83fa419d2a02b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec295e9a29f24251b9a83fa419d2a02b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan, your time was well and truly used up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224941cbfc5c8f43468319ac046a0e1ff5\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I thought I had 10 seconds left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae2056e47e594b1aaf0f8e757d90dd14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae2056e47e594b1aaf0f8e757d90dd14\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: How many seconds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff42bbfafe4e4d89b22f2fa1bb63ca14\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: 10.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc43e3da3f184954a20d567afa24ee69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc43e3da3f184954a20d567afa24ee69\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d62bca2176f4644853c8cfcb1573743\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, was it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224d9ad0487d954a799d98c7b92e2c6089\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d9ad0487d954a799d98c7b92e2c6089\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b549295f516426891d41a76259e961b\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c01e2eaac4524d548bf57062358ffd81\u0022\u003EEvents in Lebanon\u2014New Zealand\u2019s Response\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224a91a5dd5190435ab6d471d86bc3f478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a91a5dd5190435ab6d471d86bc3f478\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I have received a letter from Teanau Tuiono seeking to debate New Zealand\u2019s response to events in Lebanon. Every application for an urgent debate must be authenticated and, if not, they will be declined. The application was not accompanied by any supporting material and it is therefore declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002237f253a3ff564a6d9f61d958bb8e4935\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ff1a7aeb7f2548f1b4f0f8a041e83b80\u0022\u003EDunedin Hospital\u2014Government Announcement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022b855c1bfc91a489a9a8d844eff1bf380\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b855c1bfc91a489a9a8d844eff1bf380\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have also received a letter from Dr Tracey McLellan, seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the Government\u2019s announcement about the plans for the building of the new Dunedin hospital. This is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. Ministers have announced that the options for revising the scope or development of a previously announced hospital are being considered. This is a matter that warrants setting aside the usual business of the House today. After oral questions, I will call on Dr Tracey McLellan to move that the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002209ddfadb4eb84fe291d041d1551e41ec\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022133f46636dc846f2a489388bbec297f2\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002215a695011a2746bba19142fea9b6799d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022d77d896245634b068e5eaccd7be39f8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d77d896245634b068e5eaccd7be39f8a\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd768baed8bd42af8adba823b2a322f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd768baed8bd42af8adba823b2a322f1\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader\u2014National)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes, and in particular the successful conclusion of the negotiations for the New Zealand - United Arab Emirates closer economic partnership agreement, which is great news for our exporters and our economy. I would wish to congratulate the Minister for Trade for the record four-month gap between negotiations commencing and this conclusion being drawn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022248c9cdb9b444ac7b4c01fa638bbb396\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What actions has his Government taken to comply with the recent United Nations General Assembly resolution, which Aotearoa New Zealand supported on the international stage, which calls on all states to, among other things, implement sanctions against people carrying out Israel\u2019s unlawful presence in Palestine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293872e5b578745f5b4c403d46127420d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, our Government has consistently supported peace in the region. We\u2019ve had a clear and sensible position in which we have been calling for ceasefire for months. We\u2019ve called for Hamas to release the hostages; we\u2019ve called for Israel to meet its obligations under international law and to facilitate safe and unimpeded humanitarian access for aid delivery. And as the member says, we\u2019ve voted in support of the UN resolution to broaden Palestine\u2019s participation in the UN General Assembly. Our actions on this matter have been ongoing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aab9bce32864642bd9f43f0e696cbe7\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: When will the Government sanction Israel in accordance with the United Nations General Assembly resolution, which the Prime Minister just acknowledged Aotearoa New Zealand supported, on the international stage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220eabd33ff044e0ebe006c4401251c9f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not sure that the resolution did call for New Zealand specifically to take any specific actions of the nature that the member describes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab45c0b0c81c47749e40961c27d28b2f\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Government requested any advice on sanctioning Israel for its unlawful presence in Palestine or upholding any of the other recommendations as agreed to in that United Nations General Assembly resolution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dd834376ddf4f4588c388ebb761fdb5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Ministers take continuous advice on matters of foreign affairs and they\u2019re in constant engagement on matters of foreign affairs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224345b7ca4a39498bbe596006a8a40e59\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Are we then left with the understanding that this Government is doing or has done absolutely nothing to fulfil that UN resolution that we supported internationally?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222063ba34ac684f9887652e07472a6561\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: No. As I said, New Zealand has consistently supported peace in the region, been calling for a ceasefire for months, and have been calling for Hamas to release hostages, for Israel to meet its obligations under international law to facilitate safe and unimpeded humanitarian access for aid delivery. Our position has been consistent over a number of months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c27b32d33fee412e8c5b37699cbd0f48\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government condemn the violent aggression and escalation that Israel is undertaking, resulting in civilian casualties in Lebanon; and if so, what if anything is it doing about it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e1507baae114042af57833324831a16\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we have long called for a ceasefire in the region. We\u2019re urging all sides to show restraint and take steps towards de-escalation. We\u2019ve issued three statements since last year with Australia and Canada, highlighting that a regional war would have disastrous consequences for the region and especially for civilians across the region. We\u2019re now also urging New Zealanders to leave Lebanon and northern Israel, while commercial options remain available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221cbe56007e5b4a2c9568af6202c8d4a0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u00225e73d209ae484f42832e86a02f31d898\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e73d209ae484f42832e86a02f31d898\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002272596091f75745bfa890c17fa2dd4eb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272596091f75745bfa890c17fa2dd4eb2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284241159af264438b1545aa0cbef3781\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement yesterday, in reference to Mark Mitchell losing his responsibility for firearms, \u201CI have tremendous faith in Mark Mitchell. I think he\u2019s an outstanding Minister of Police and he\u2019s doing an absolutely brilliant job.\u201D, and why didn\u2019t he express that same faith in Nicole McKee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6d659b7ef7b443fb2566168db8218af\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, in answer to the first part\u00A0of\u00A0the question, yes. Mark Mitchell is an outstanding individual and Minister. The characterisation that he was stripped of anything, that was inferred in the question yesterday, was wrong, and I have confidence in all of my Ministers, including Nicole McKee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259d6f2bbb8a049e881d42ecc9880dbcf\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Who does he agree with: Winston Peters, who said, \u201CThe minister of foreign affairs does not consult with coalition partners on the literally hundreds of UN General Assembly resolutions that are considered each year\u201D, or David Seymour, who wants to be consulted on all UN resolutions and said, \u201CWe expect a more open dialogue in the future.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245ec6f374272446e95f2d61c7b920733\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and David Seymour would agree with me that when it comes to major changes in New Zealand\u2019s foreign policy, then there will be a Cabinet discussion of those. The nature of UN resolutions is that they are very frequent. That will not occur in all cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213e0ff145e2646ce9bc6a48411ca84d4\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: David Seymour, who speculated that private enterprise should either contract or just take over completely the Interislander ferry, or Winston Peters, who, when asked if he would prefer rail-enabled State-owned ferries, replied, \u201COf course I would.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022673353e18aae4515a8532822b946bab1\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I can assure the member that both Winston Peters and David Seymour share the Government\u2019s interest in ensuring that there are safe, reliable ferry services over the Cook Strait into the future. That is the discussion that Cabinet is having, and we will ensure that we make an announcement shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cfd8eaae63048f6aa937404fb612f8a\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: Christopher Luxon, who said, \u201CWe\u2019ve ended up creating a whole new series of addictions to nicotine that I think we\u2019ll regret very strongly\u201D, David Seymour, who said, \u201CThe Government is the biggest nicotine addict.\u201D, or Casey Costello, who said the Government is \u201Cnot necessarily anti-nicotine\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da7e87ecf0f844ee90738906808bf86b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, common to all of those statements is a view that we want fewer people smoking in this country, and if that member wants to do a series of questions playing spot the difference between the quotes, then shall we start a game of spot the difference between the tax policies? Because, boy oh boy, I\u2019ve lost count of how many different views there are from the members opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226739bfc31816464a8099c85b6d122b73\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When questions are about to be heard, stop the discussions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a26ebf9a50ef4704934e7af4f1ed83ce\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: Nicola Grigg, who on Suffrage Day said, \u201CWe must make sure we continue to progress this legacy to continue the fight for gender equality and improving the lives of women in New Zealand.\u201D, or the Hon Nicola Willis, who disestablished the pay equities task force?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afbe892dfd3146a291db22ea02dcb2d7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, both of those women are correct, and both of those women are members of a Cabinet that will be doing more for women than the last Government, which saw the cost of living increase for women, saw that their ability to have choices and opportunities in their futures was reduced by poor economic management, and oversaw a situation in which, despite spending billions and billions of dollars more, did not see an improvement in the services which women and men received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f0d77f43080452f9a9b85b381dafbee\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just make the point that drowning out an answer really does make me think what the point was in allowing the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6557d08503542c796a645a8692fc5c7\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Who is to blame for the \u201Ccoalition of chaos\u201D: the current Deputy Prime Minister, who acts as a handbrake, the man who is replacing him in six months\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022124ebf136a4b41718570d3bbf0d62814\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019ll tell you what: start again. There\u2019s been lots and lots of concern from the Opposition about various descriptions being put on other political parties, including your own. I\u2019d suggest the member starts the question without the particular description at the preface of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022060e20eaaa4a4cdeacc8164d6045ada4\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Who is to blame for the coalition\u2019s differing of opinions and the chaos that has ensued: the current Deputy Prime Minister; the man who will replace the Deputy Prime Minister in six months\u2019 time; the finance Minister, who has stalled at the lights; or the Prime Minister, who is clearly still driving with his L-plates on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da7a8dbbebb746d081f412f1dbb09720\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, those who like to spend a lot of time on Treasure Island probably shouldn\u2019t be talking about L-plates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022849965cd91e94c51b085e443d92ce150\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When we\u2019re ready.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022686ad9ea810c48879061e57a76f3941d\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Give her another holiday!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251df927a21f840eb995d6b937154aae6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I beg your pardon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f21015854a1c459ba7fc57aff6c17d9d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022 data-id=\u00220baca20204eb4f11b7927124cd460027\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220baca20204eb4f11b7927124cd460027\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: \u5927\u5BB6\u4E0B\u5348\u597D\uFF0C\u5FEB\u4E50\u7684\u4E2D\u6587\u5468.What are the elements of New Zealand\u2019s public finance system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c99648c4c84d48a19711b65a44e63b5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c99648c4c84d48a19711b65a44e63b5f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E There are a number of elements. First, there is legislation, in particular the Public Finance Act. Second, there are conventions that have been accepted and used by successive Governments. New Zealand\u2019s fiscal management approach, for example, is a non-legislative framework that includes public finance concepts such as fixed nominal baselines, contingencies, and allowances. Finally, Governments make their own decisions about how to structure and present their finances, and typically those decisions are outlined in Budget documents such as the Fiscal Strategy Report or Budget Policy Statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228197721b676b458f8dc9510b21feaec1\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Is she intending to propose changes to the Public Finance Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4cea6aa1a0741c48a04f2dc431fb316\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I\u2019ve said previously that I will enact a public finance amendment bill in this parliamentary term. This bill will have a particular focus on fiscal risks but also include other changes to strengthen transparency and fiscal responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283b7db07c8384285871947cfd87377d6\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Has she already made changes to the public finance system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022758f074872f14c26846c92e0d6cb7f13\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, many changes. For example, we got rid of hundreds of pages of verbiage from the Budget documents this year, including knocking the previous Government\u2019s branding exercises on the head. The previous Government introduced a cluster system, where some groups of agencies were collectively funded for a three-year period. We have ended that because it did not work. We discontinued the previous Government\u2019s Climate Emergency Response Fund. Many of the spending decisions made\u00A0under the banner of climate purposes did not represent good value for money from\u00A0an emissions-reduction or a taxpayer-value perspective, and we are sticking much more closely to the operating allowance concept in the fiscal management approach by actually intending to keep to future allowances\u2014a novel idea to those on the other side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b978dee7-18cf-424c-8004-b165bda971ff\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022048cf9ac616c4b5fa0afacca7bd2b2d8\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government reviewing any other aspects of the public finance system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebc06db2d9f949e99fadd34bbddc3287\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we are, including the structure and use of capital allowances. In 2019, the previous Government introduced the multi-year capital allowance, or MYCA, to reflect new capital funding available over multiple Budgets. This was rather grandiosely trumpeted at the time as the wellbeing approach in action. In practice, however, the previous Government simply made large annual increases to the MYCA and immediately allocated those increases. This almost entirely defeated the purpose of a longer-term capital allowance. I said in the Fiscal Strategy Report in May that the Treasury will be reviewing the capital allowance framework, including the MYCA, and I\u2019m expecting to receive that advice before the end of the year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4d52c0f03e54ad5a3de9ce930d49b29\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, there\u2019s no way that the answer to that question could be deemed to be a reflection of advice that the Minister has seen or information that would be objective. That was her interpretation and a political bent on the situation, and I don\u2019t think that\u2019s appropriate, particularly for a patsy question from her own side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228565348e50844c3ba89577b1ff60edbd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look, I will take another look at that, obviously, but I was listening\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ae66c63d6c34198871b8b61f7f9873a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: It couldn\u2019t have been drier!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0066d7b1a1849e887c09de92878c65b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me. I was listening very carefully, and the primary question is: what are the elements of New Zealand\u2019s public finance system? There were two supplementaries following that, before the third supplementary, which you are concerned about. I will take a look at it and see where we\u2019re at, because it is a fact that the Government should not be asking itself supplementary questions designed to attack the Opposition. They can refer to previous Government programmes and the effect that it has on current policy\u2014it\u2019s long been the case. I did mention this to the House a short time ago. Clearly, some advisers have not read that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224ac4314f062746cb83624040fee27414\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u00228e5af67984834843b93a1ee1e8630469\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e5af67984834843b93a1ee1e8630469\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Agriculture: What recent reports has he seen about the welfare of farm animals in Southland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022 data-id=\u002288f49349a487468d9ce1f4450a68014d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288f49349a487468d9ce1f4450a68014d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Associate Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have seen news reports and heard from farmers down there that it has been an extraordinarily challenging winter, and now spring, for animals and farmers alike due to high rainfall and late snows. This has led to higher than normal losses and there have been issues brought to the attention of Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) animal welfare inspectors. In a recent example where photos of dead sheep were publicised, inspectors found that the farmer had shifted animals to dry paddocks in the aftermath of an unexpected weather event and placed those sheep there where they were later filmed. The plan for the farmer was to go back later and pick them up after checking on the welfare of all the other animals on the farm. I am advised that MPI inspectors were satisfied that the farmer had taken appropriate steps to safeguard the welfare of their animals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215ebc8e5e69c48a2b7477be655a3a858\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has he received from farmers on how they are coping with the situation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce4f8fb731464c859a1d248c3b01ba58\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: From talking to a number of Southland farmers, I know that they are feeling the pressure right now. I personally have farmed through droughts, floods, snowfalls, and windstorms but the worst mentally has always been a couple of occasions where it has just rained non-stop for months on end. Relentless rainfall throws up so many challenges for farmers, who are always focused on doing their best for their stock. This Government cares about animals and farmers, and I know that trying to come up with solutions in these conditions is one of the hardest parts of farming. And yet each day, they get up, they put the wet weather gear back on, and work out a plan to get through to tomorrow and look after the cows and sheep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224de6afca1eaf47ec8927576a477ff195\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What can farmers do to look after the welfare of their animals and themselves in such challenging conditions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc28245b9997480686bd65d13269debe\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s an old adage: \u201CA problem shared is a problem halved\u201D, and this is so true. There are a number of organisations that can offer an ear to listen\u2014but also just leaning over the gate and talking to your neighbour about how they are going. They may have a good idea to share in terms of how they are looking after their animals, or it can just be a morale boost to realise that you aren\u2019t the only one struggling. Everyone is in the same boat and, actually, you\u2019re doing pretty well. Feeling a bit better about yourself will help with better decision-making and the motivation to get back into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022613108d326a0476ebe0ceb05f71b37d1\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Are conditions in Southland expected to improve?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263d0c6f4202e4554b0be1a4f0463ddfe\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, unfortunately, the weather forecast for today is rain, hail, and snow down to 300 metres for Gore. We can only hope that farmers down there will see a few weeks of respite coming up soon. In terms of what the Government can do, I\u2019m afraid we can\u2019t legislate for bringing on summer any quicker or guarantee that it will be a mild one. I know in the past they\u2019ve tried to bring daylight savings forward. It didn\u2019t really work. MPI\u2019s on-farm support team can work with farmers to provide them with good information and make connections to other organisations who can help. The vast majority of farmers are giving it their all at the moment to look after their livestock. For the few that may not be, MPI\u2019s compliance team are also responding to calls, working with farmers, undertaking proactive action and, where warranted, will initiate prosecutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cea5fb9d4f564386b312654f1a2400c7\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: That was long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c85477f6a9034caf960af1c717434e73\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022492d1aed66ed45f09da13b1fba09a9f2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u002277fe89a6bfd64a5b867144e062d6c472\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277fe89a6bfd64a5b867144e062d6c472\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: \u8C22\u8C22, Mr Speaker. Does she stand by her statement, \u201COn this side of the House, we take economic management extremely seriously\u201D; if so, do her decisions to date reflect this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u00229ccbcbd284a84d8dbfceedbaf1cf8914\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ccbcbd284a84d8dbfceedbaf1cf8914\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and I take all decisions seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246b29e6d308a4591b525a0f74878eadf\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it the case that outside of the 2020 COVID year, the last time there was an operating balance before gains and losses (OBEGAL) deficit of at least 3.1 percent, which is forecast for 2025, was in 2012?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204e109a5b2814a92a36b38d96ae753b7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: It is correct that New Zealand currently faces a structural deficit of significant proportions. Our Government inherited a situation where the last Government had charged up the credit card to the max, unsustainably, and we are now in the position of course correcting, and we had set a very clear plan that it will allow the books to return to an OBEGAL surplus in 2027/28. If we had stuck to the spending plans of the last Government, that date would have been pushed out until 2031, an unacceptable outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a209ab9125345fe835e04a0fdf3459f\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it the case that the last time that unemployment was\u00A0greater than 5.4 percent, which is now predicted for June 2025, was in September 2015?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222296e394b4974802a9935f4db29d0a70\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: As has been well canvassed in this House, New Zealand finds itself in extremely challenging economic circumstances. We have had three years of a cost of living crisis in which inflation was allowed to be maintained outside of the band. Not only did that increase costs for New Zealanders, what we saw was interest rates then had to rise extremely high and quickly in response. That has strangled the economy. Now, members opposite had a choice as interest rates were rising at that rate. They could have sat down and said, \u201CWe better get disciplined about our spending.\u201D Members opposite chose not to and have worsened the economic situation that New Zealand now finds itself in and we are cleaning it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab22ae41c6ea4642bbcc9f3d73dfb60b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Keep everything fairly succinct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef1751da841d444092ca091d08a27114\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it the case that the additional interest cost of the $12\u00A0billion of additional borrowing in Budget 2024 will be $4.3 billion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222449af27e44f4f5dade080507dd6bb61\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I am very pleased that the member is getting her head around the impacts of high debt, because that is the same member who went on Radio New Zealand and said that she thought the New Zealand Government should be borrowing more. So get your position aligned and stick with us, which is that we want to get back into surplus quicker so we can reduce debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd58701031ca495db7cf4a506b9224a6\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. As theatrical as that was, it actually didn\u2019t address the question. It was a pretty straightforward question and\u2014[Interruption] Excuse me\u2014in silence, points of order. I know you\u2019re rattled, but give us a chance. Mr Speaker, it was a very\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd9fd7c6dcc14b40859f7981bffe3943\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, just wait. Points of order are heard in silence and responses like that are not acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9815437424f4d1ea38e7f87a8ff43d6\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The response didn\u2019t actually address what was a very straightforward question, and it was straight into a political statement aimed at the member who asked the question. Now, I get it, totally. The whole House understands if it is a loaded question, fair game; and if it is a broad question, then, you lead with your chin, you\u2019re probably going to get hit. But, in that instance, it was a very straightforward question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ece98134385e4fdfbd38fc641cfd9aa9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but it did refer to, I think, 2015 in that particular case, which does take it back into the time of the previous Government and would invite a suspected response along the lines that it got. But I tell you what\u2014just ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2165eb78c38457188e543f982511acd\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it the case that the additional interest cost of the $12\u00A0billion of additional borrowing in Budget 2024 will be $4.3 billion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d764f7f7d19e471ba5c6ba3325b563df\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: It is true that interest costs that incur when New Zealand is living beyond its means are significant. This is of concern to the Government, and that is why we are taking such efforts to restrain spending and get it back under control after several years in which spending rose dramatically as a proportion of GDP and was unfunded, leading New Zealand to borrow for the groceries, leaving us with massive interest bills for our Government debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2c0f16b6bab430a81993d118f77953d\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How can she reconcile shifting $30 million that was for te reo M\u0101ori education to fund maths when she could have just given the $216 million tobacco tax break to cover both and more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab72e899159545bca42eed51aceea7f6\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: On this side of the House we wish to see the revitalisation of te reo M\u0101ori. I understand from the Minister of Education that the programme to which the member refers was not able to provide conclusive evidence of an increase in the achievement in te reo M\u0101ori by children in New Zealand classrooms, and we are going to continue to ensure that te reo M\u0101ori instruction is available to educators, including through the many free programmes offered through tertiary providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a145c69b70c34dccbed24870dd404f61\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: When will she take responsibility for the cancellation of a major piece of infrastructure without advice on an alternative\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e1f06d3387e4818ab4eaace6d20f753\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Light rail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022024bf8f684ac452890fc9c5cea994ec4\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014including any sort\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223372b52ade6043ddb98286e6d70298d6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on\u2014you can start your question again. When a question\u2019s being asked, please try and hold those interesting comments that you\u2019re offering to the House to yourself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227041ce64ac5149caa3565bbffd803b0c\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: When will she take responsibility for the cancellation of a major piece of infrastructure without advice on an alternative, including any sort of cost-benefit analysis, which is the very opposite of careful economic management?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d832f3fd7d64cf088c576b06caadb10\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I have and will take responsibility for the fact that when this Government assumed office, we were handed a basket case otherwise known as project iReX, whose cost had blown out of a number of months. Faced with a decision early in our Government as to whether or not we should add more funding to that fire, and given a very challenging deadline within which to do that, we took the advice of our officials, who said that this dog don\u2019t hunt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c359280d66d146c092406830c8f33215\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022 data-id=\u00225bc0dd8ffb4e4cc3889327a9389fdf73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bc0dd8ffb4e4cc3889327a9389fdf73\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What recent announcements has she made about supporting the teaching of maths?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00222bef6d889d4f4120a5e976dd737460eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bef6d889d4f4120a5e976dd737460eb\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E This Government will be delivering high-quality, curriculum-aligned maths resources and supports for teachers and students, delivered from term 1 next year. Funding of $30 million will fund student workbooks, teacher guides, and lesson plans in our primary and intermediate schools and they\u2019ll be available in English and te reo M\u0101ori. More than half a million year 0 to 8 students and their teachers will benefit. This is alongside a knowledge-rich curriculum, and $20 million in professional learning and development to support our teachers, reduce workload, and lift student achievement in mathematics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214ae3cceaf394fc7aa1034906c0e3e2a\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: What prompted her to deliver these supports to schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271b899e65a3d4c4091aff8f7bb988ba0\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Just 22 percent of our year 8 students are at the expected standard for maths and around half of our students are not able to pass a foundational NCEA co-requisite assessment in numeracy. I was also concerned by the fact that there is a lack of high-quality curriculum-aligned maths resources available in te reo M\u0101ori. Today\u2019s announcement sees the equitable access of instructional maths resources for teachers and tamariki in te reo M\u0101ori. These high-quality resources will support teachers to implement the new curriculum and to help kids practise and master the knowledge and the skills they need to excel in maths.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a7498901d494178ad50418003930857\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: What will this mean for teachers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fd11587378944c3b5f4c83b3891821f\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this will reduce the workload for teachers by providing them with both curriculum-aligned resources so they don\u2019t always have to create their own teacher guides to support introducing the new curriculum content, and it will mean that every single teacher will have access to these resources for themselves and their students in te reo M\u0101ori and English, rather than just the schools that can afford them, so that we can raise achievement and close the equity gap for all children in mathematics across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225665380b-62fd-4d75-85e0-0ed801a402e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237c2f6d00d0e467e962dc4bd9c01d172\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s next for schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288c87edb350b4e41b442ab6782a768b4\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Approved suppliers will be published on the Ministry of Education\u2019s website no later than 18 October for schools to choose which resources and supports they may like to order. Schools may wish to choose different resources for upper primary compared to lower primary, depending on their needs. Orders placed by 4 November will see schools receiving their new resources in time for term 1. I\u2019m delighted to be funding this for all students and all schools who want access to this wonderful maths support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e228b736fe464ac1a416dda0fab83889\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she take $30 million from support for teachers to learn te reo M\u0101ori, an official language of New Zealand, rather than from David Seymour\u2019s pet education project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fd5519ed95342a89bd2edf1a88c8b89\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: We made sure that we have kept available te reo M\u0101ori for our bilingual and kura kaupapa kaiako, but it is really important that the $100 million that we\u2019ve spent over the last three years was 2.3 times more expensive than other, similar courses offered free of charge. There was anywhere between a 50 and 60 percent completion rate; it was not NZQA accredited; there were no qualifications gained; there was no evidence of improved student outcomes. We can contract much better than this because we are committed to the revitalisation of te reo M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227848eb46d9e9441b88cb72681864aae9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u002292079079d9434700afbaa1c9406ed361\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292079079d9434700afbaa1c9406ed361\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for M\u0101ori Development: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u00225d844b72c3fa4a649781ac639e5e8a2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d844b72c3fa4a649781ac639e5e8a2a\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E Ni hao and kia orana. \u0100na\u2014yes. I particularly stand by the actions we\u2019ve taken to reduce the number of households in emergency housing. Earlier this week, I announced that the number of households in emergency housing has dropped by nearly 60 percent between December 2023 and August this year. Many of the households who have left emergency housing are M\u0101ori, as many of the 1,311 tamariki who have left emergency housing as a result of priority-one decision-making made by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e8ea0476b5d4967b2b18076f9d1d1d5\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: As the Minister for M\u0101ori Development who is proud to be M\u0101ori, how can he justify being part of a Government that is disestablishing Te Aka Whai Ora, cutting $300 million of targeted M\u0101ori funding, repealing section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act, the confiscation of our coastlines, rejecting the United Nations Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, defunding section 27 reports, restoring three strikes\u2014just about there\u2014removing Te Mana o te Wai, and setting in motion a wave of anti-M\u0101ori sentiment by giving life to the Treaty principles bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022787c8f97d5a84bc6bbdf7c01a95b1c48\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not appropriate to use a question to question the integrity of a Minister or any member in this House. You can ask a question about actions they are taking inside their ministry, which I appreciate is the thrust of your question, but the start of it was not in order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b22684c474144e8ba97480a63c3783b4\u0022\u003EHon Paul Goldsmith\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. In addition to the point you made\u2014I mean, I thought there was a very standard rule that questions could not include assertions. And that question was full of assertions that we would contest entirely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dadd2a8e0e474d17a2e514b967773e75\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it\u2019s a difficult word \u201Cassertion\u201D. If we used it in application for both questions and answers the House would be practically mute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c61c437e070741499d95fcb8fff09d14\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very proud to be part of a Cabinet that has more M\u0101ori members than any other Cabinet in New Zealand\u2019s history. What I\u2019d also acknowledge is the progress that Minister Metek\u014Dura\u2014Minister Goldsmith\u2014is making on various Treaty settlements, such as Te Korowai o Wainui\u0101rua and Taranaki Maunga; also the funding for Matatini that Minister Willis\u2014the Manu P\u016Btea\u2014has supported over the next three years; also the progress that the \u014C-R\u0101kau bill has made by Minister Potaka; and also getting hundreds of tamariki M\u0101ori out of emergency housing. I\u2019ve got to say, some of these questions are like a h\u0101ng\u012B on repeat, reheat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5a5976b956f4a118b6a01eecf6b9b70\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: And that wasn\u2019t an appropriate comment either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feaedb24d2e24404948374e4c40fa770\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Do all of these cuts and repeals constitute M\u0101ori development or M\u0101ori regression?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e6de5a185004997a50a7edd2d222d4d\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very proud of the progress being made by this Government to get the country back on track around the economy, law and order, education, housing, small and medium enterprises, emergency housing, and a whole range of other portfolios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201bd720ce42e4b66b39f68e7f394467e\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233f8421e695040498fb2e5134f8e4207\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait for the conversation to end over here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277ed3d34d7af4f4d9d8b57d5e1ab1736\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: How can he justify the Government\u2019s decision to cut $30 million on Te Ahu o te Reo M\u0101ori, a programme that develops te reo M\u0101ori among our kaiako, immediately after te Wiki o te Reo M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d022ee098e24555a73d2fa2ff5e2883\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I can reflect on some of the comments that have been made by both Minister Willis and Minister Stanford in relation to this matter, and acknowledge also that there are various free courses offered through universities, w\u0101nanga like Te W\u0101nanga o Aotearoa, and various other methods through our community. Those avenues and pathways are open for the teachers to school themselves up on te reo M\u0101ori and celebrate our language as a for ever language\u2014ake, ake, ake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b6772ce796b4d7e8afe515fee3d6590\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that the actions of his Government constitute ethnocide, the deliberate and systematic\u2014[Interruption] Hold! Hold! Just taihoa! Tatari!\u2014destruction\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c824b507a4f04384ae1205012b2b7bfa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf150456ae3942d09efe04dbbe04e32d\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of an ethnic group?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c0581e00fa2495c868b74a69f45f733\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a moment. Questions will be heard in silence. But questions that make an allegation or even ask a question like that\u2014it\u2019s outside the bounds of what would be reasonable inside the House. There are other ways of asking a question, and I\u2019d invite the member to perhaps have a quick think about that and ask a supplementary that might get the same answer but with a different front end to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a79d448c126b4fa6bead5480e322d19c\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014does he agree that the actions of this Government constitute deculturation, the deliberate and systematic destruction of M\u0101ori culture?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d13889493b0f4eb7b4b26d113393039e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, look, I\u2019m sorry, that\u2019s not in order either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dd0968bd6ad4fd289349df36c9d39f5\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227009ae94931d4311b4429e605103762d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If you have a look\u2014who asked that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f8a7ea858df4380978b8e75f385973f\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9d03d3fe3c24e1cb6aeb1d111e4ee3b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014it\u2019s not a point of order from you; I\u2019m dealing with a ruling at the moment. If the member looks at the Standing Orders around what can be asked in the question, you cannot put into a question an assertion of that nature. So do you want one more go?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba46277173314a75b4978da744674424\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. My point of order, sir, is that the member wasn\u2019t making an assertion; she was asking whether the Minister agreed that that was a proper summary of the effect of Government policies, and that is a proper question. The Government doesn\u2019t have to agree with it, but it is a proper question be able to be asked in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2b9c6e1b0d64d88bcc5ff6bf2117888\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee5a8639059d4d2293097dbc4f2af6bd\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022242285e90f564d35b0fc77e8a45f9753\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Hon Simeon Brown.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb52ae977442443599473272ed84579a\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, I mean, I think there\u2019s a particular\u2014the word \u201Cethnocide\u201D has significant meaning and I think there is offence taken from this side of the House, and we\u2019d ask her not just to not use it but to withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f0a29a6a336488294a6cf473381bd1a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve actually dealt with that. We\u2019ve moved on from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d546bd89e1f4f409285055dfd3447c8\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: My point of order is in relation to the fact that she used that word\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226647c1d51d664f8c985f063fa4579298\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I know that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c224589459c144b685cf61e891969d1c\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in a prior question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f01858c1d884bac87703c8c7d25d7ab\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m well aware of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211adbf133a394c41a129aa165ef93346\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and you\u2019ve addressed the use of it but not in relation to her\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225a8346362e643f7a22f5fba7c388abe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve spoken to her about it and we\u2019ve dealt with it. The Hon Shane Jones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f44431ef-b505-4e94-9f57-a60b0a569bf7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8b80c1356eb4badb666bf5175106d5c\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: My point of order, sir, is slightly different. Standing Order 390 shows that you are quite right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297f19434efc846f987adc23afe3086eb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there you go\u2014red letter day; I\u2019ll clock that one up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022142d118d1f07449e9e12056f96ce49f4\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Standing Order 390 talks about statements of facts and arguments and fairness and imputations. But, as David Parker mentioned, actually what the member was simply doing is asking a question, and, whether it\u2019s inflammatory or otherwise, it was not an assertion, it was a question. So I don\u2019t actually think that Standing Order 390 applies here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266afd73e8bf04fb685d5c0d3d126ae0a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, but it\u2019s me who judges that. And I would say that imputation is another aspect of that question. I\u2019m inviting the member to ask her question in a different way, and I\u2019m sure she can do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d948997ac75e4bf08868c8559913cd06\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree that the actions of this Government constitute harm and poverty and such things that impact on M\u0101ori katoa o te motu [all M\u0101ori of the country]?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c11e0f828ec4b4a80c0622b1e748374\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: This Government acknowledges the severe inequalities of opportunity that confront M\u0101ori communities, and cohorts within M\u0101ori communities, both in the social space and the economic space. Hence, we\u2019re absolutely focused\u2014ruthlessly focused, in fact\u2014on a variety of targets, such as improving M\u0101ori school attendance and M\u0101ori achievement in education, making sure that we reduce the number of M\u0101ori living in emergency households, and a number of other initiatives. My focus, as is with a number of my colleagues, is to ensure that M\u0101ori economic development, M\u0101ori social development, is supported and improved so we can all say, actually, there is an equality of opportunity here in Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd15a754800c4eed8d4cc2e6aef4426a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002295adfd20dc4d42858e8c4dc73cc4de5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295adfd20dc4d42858e8c4dc73cc4de5a\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does he stand by\u00A0his commitment that if Associate Minister of Justice Nicole McKee brings an option to\u00A0Cabinet that proposes to scrap the firearms registry then he will block it; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022e03018481de1483a81fc70ce387b2ab5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e03018481de1483a81fc70ce387b2ab5\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I stand by the commitment made in the coalition agreement with ACT to review whether the firearms registry is effectively improving public safety, and I stand by my role as Minister of Police to advocate for police around the Cabinet table. No such paper has been brought to Cabinet; therefore, such a question would be hypothetical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227941be6e8a844fc892b616c588b468e6\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Nicole McKee regarding his commitment to block a Cabinet option that would scrap the registry, \u201CNo Minister can make that decision by themselves, either myself or Mark Mitchell, and we are part of a coalition Government.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b405d0a165ed43bb8d6f4dcc6f5fcef4\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I completely support and agree with her statement, and I\u2019d go further to say that we are both working very closely together with a focus on public safety. She is a firearms safety expert and she is bringing all that knowledge to bear in terms of making sure that, actually, we make our country safer, because in the last five or six years, we\u2019ve gone backwards severely in terms of public safety, especially in relation to illegal firearms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022facf93b39d5643579caac762d99f0e78\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is TV3 correct that ACT has \u201Cspoken to him behind the scenes\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1dd153c746a4f15a1f08bbcd21e26d2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry. Sorry, just ask your question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8f355e1b6d14870846cc319e95bbf31\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is TV3 correct that ACT has \u201Cspoken to him behind the scenes and told him to stop speaking publicly about the firearms registry before the review is complete\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022489d653bb5204bb1832ba817d8db75b1\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019d have to ask TV3, but I\u2019m pretty sure I\u2019m talking publicly now about the registry. I just want to reinforce to that member, because although they are trying very hard on the other side, we are working together, we have a coalition agreement, we are reviewing whether the firearms registry is effectively improving public safety, and that is an important thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211e4aefac61b44a886e7e1135f88b935\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider it\u2019s fair that he\u2019s been told off for publicly speaking about the firearms registry before the review is complete when Nicole McKee has already stated, \u201CI think the full A category licensing regime is not going to be effective. It\u2019s going to be too costly and it\u2019s going to make people fearful of their own safety.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f50e73b438a24ac1a01c73ed963bf405\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019d just say to the member again that it\u2019s a bit like being in the school yard, isn\u2019t it, people being told off? I don\u2019t think anyone\u2019s being told off. I think that this coalition Government has got a commitment to review the firearms registry to make sure that it is effective in delivering public safety, and I think that\u2019s really important. I\u2019d just reassure the member that I\u2019m working very closely with my colleague Nicole McKee to make sure that we deliver that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224492fc85b18454f8c8d3512944e4f46\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he consider that excluding A category firearms from the registry would weaken it, given that these rifles and shotguns currently account for 70\u00A0percent of all firearms seized by police from offenders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225848b322184d49c5a085444937b79506\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is grasping at straws. There have been no papers taken to Cabinet at all for any decisions. The member is trying to fearmonger. She doesn\u2019t, in my view, have a very good relationship with facts, whereas my colleague Minister Nicole McKee deals with facts. The work that we\u2019re doing is focused on making sure that we reverse what\u2019s happened to our country in the last five or six years and we get on a much better pathway in terms of public safety and firearms safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255e035239f3247269b4f3f67cd3e9b41\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: What did he mean when he stated on Newstalk ZB, \u201CI can assure you, as the police Minister, the gun registry is going nowhere.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d5bff446e484c58914da19def49d2d0\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I can tell the member that it is my job to advocate and advance the position of the police, and I can tell you now that the police are\u00A0fully engaged in making sure that we support the review so Cabinet can be informed in terms of what we need to do to improve public safety, and that is what we are committed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022551aeab74d9c41048eca32ab90e14aef\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022 data-id=\u002272dfc0a8b9104eaabeffdac8844c5346\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272dfc0a8b9104eaabeffdac8844c5346\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What actions is the Government taking to reduce the number of victims of crime? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u002203c76c21e62241deb44fd386ff034cbd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203c76c21e62241deb44fd386ff034cbd\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Government\u2019s taking many actions to reduce the number of victims of crime and put victims, not offenders, at the heart of the justice system. Last night, the Sentencing (Reform) Amendment Bill passed its first reading, which will put more serious offenders in prison for longer to prevent them from creating new victims, and if time is spent in prison on remand, we will ensure that offenders have access to rehabilitation to prevent ongoing recidivism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd65a2d2fea6468db1004c6e127ea2be\u0022\u003EMiles Anderson\u003C/span\u003E: What specifically will the Sentencing (Reform) Amendment Bill do to reduce the number of victims of crime? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022359f09f2887541ffa178dbd5d574e49f\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019ve seen too many examples of people convicted of serious violent crime and sexual crimes having their sentences discounted significantly. The Government will cap those discounts at 40 percent. We\u2019re also giving great prominence to victims\u2019 interests at sentencing and reducing a number of new aggravating factors including a new aggravating factor for offences against public transport workers. Our bus drivers and train drivers shouldn\u2019t have to suffer from mindless attacks as they do their job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222596afcae3774d5fbd8d8dc361d35465\u0022\u003EMiles Anderson\u003C/span\u003E: What actions is the Government taking to reduce the number of victims of cyber-crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d85f2aa15694bb9a2dfc33dfd37a84d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this week the Government has introduced the Budapest Convention and Related Matters Legislation Amendment Bill. Eleven percent of New Zealanders were victims of fraud and cyber-crime in 2023, and this piece of legislation will align New Zealand with other international jurisdictions to make it easier for them to cooperate on criminal investigations. We\u2019ll play our part in global efforts to frustrate and defeat the efforts of those who deceive and prey on vulnerable New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d358d8ea671d41608780af23bb822b47\u0022\u003EMiles Anderson\u003C/span\u003E: What commentary, if any, has he seen on restoring law and order to create fewer victims?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228472b9a2c2a94919ba2ff778496d6587\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, last week I heard the comment, \u201CEverybody wants a safe community. We should be tough on violent criminals. People who are violent criminals should be sentenced properly.\u201D I agree with Dr Duncan Webb, and I\u2019m glad that he now realises that things needed to change. This Government is taking steps to restore real consequences for crime and has set targets to reduce the number of victims of serious crime, and we\u2019re working at pace to achieve that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002202232423c22a4f638ce97e120b0cc1e4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u0022548ba8c44e3b4304a3b9897fb1f0953a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022548ba8c44e3b4304a3b9897fb1f0953a\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: Would the Land Transport Rule: Setting of Speed Limits (2024) require councils to raise speed limits even where it may increase the risk of severe injury and death?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee28723c379f4eb7a7a60b062720f146\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee28723c379f4eb7a7a60b062720f146\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E The land transport setting of speed limits rule is still under consideration and has not been finalised or signed. Section 164(2)(c) of the Land Transport Act 1998 requires the Minister to have regard to the level of risk existing to land transport safety in New Zealand when finalising the Government\u2019s new speed limit rule. There are a range of factors that impact road safety. Our Government\u2019s focus is on targeting the highest contributors to fatal crashes, including alcohol and drugs. We\u2019ve set clear targets for Police to ensure they focus on the most high-risk times, behaviours, and locations. The interim regulatory impact analysis says that the \u201Clevel of impact is difficult to quantify due to uncertainty about which roads would have speed limits increased and what impact those speed limit increases would have on operating speeds.\u201D I assure the member that I will take safety into account as part of the process of finalising and signing the new rule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a98e5e391ced40a6a4d68546cf563ef6\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Will he reconsider his commitment to blanket speed limit increases now that he knows that the six countries he has referred to as having the lowest road deaths\u2014Iceland, Norway, Sweden, the UK, Japan, Denmark\u2014allow and actively encourage councils to extensively use safer speeds, like permanent 30kph speed limits in residential areas and 70 or 80kph on undivided, windy, rural highways?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b19d95f5ee9a409095039064b5ceac52\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a very interesting question because, of course, the member wrote to me, I think, yesterday about this issue, and there was an attachment to\u00A0her letter, which says that in Norway the standard speed limit in urban areas is 50kph. In Sweden\u2014ditto; 50kph is standard. Denmark\u2014ditto; 50kph is standard. So the member is trying to make a point, but the information she\u2019s provided to me, in my office, actually, I think, backs up what is in the proposed rule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4fa031cb56847619a0ee8683374ef28\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: So is the Minister denying that the European Transport Safety Council has provided evidence that there is extensive use of 30kph in many European cities, including cities in the countries he cited, in residential areas, and that the default speed limit on rural, windy, undivided highways is much lower than 100kph in those countries, and that has been a major part of them reducing road deaths, which is widely acknowledged around the world?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296f8eb67aed549d0a1443856da27328e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just ask the question, don\u2019t add your little bit at the end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c15ae1e63c2f4cd0bfd560233b5c9647\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m relying on\u2014well, in my previous answer that I just gave\u2014the information she provided to my office, and I\u2019m happy to table the information that she actually wrote to me about yesterday, which says, in Norway, the standard speed limit in urban areas is 50kph. In Sweden\u2014ditto. In Denmark\u2014ditto. So, I mean, the point is that this Government is focused on the highest-risk times, locations, and behaviours on our roads. Alcohol and drugs are the highest-risk contributors to deaths on our roads. That\u2019s why we\u2019re ensuring the Police are consistently doing over 3 million breath tests on our roads. That\u2019s why we\u2019re introducing oral roadside drug testing. We\u2019re taking road safety incredibly seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225523381334df4f6ebe31ff6266ee2b99\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: How many additional people being fatally or seriously injured does he believe is acceptable in order to save 14 to 20 seconds on an average 20-minute car journey?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a3478f6bb5d4b5cb670e00e5e560e46\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this Government is incredibly focused on road safety, and in terms of the number of actions this Government has under way to improve road safety, whether it\u2019s making sure we actually ensure there\u2019s enough alcohol breath tests happening on an annualised basis, because we know that alcohol and drugs are the highest contributors to deaths on our roads. And the reality is, in the last number of years, we have not had an adequate number of breath tests on our roads and we\u2019ve had the road death toll continue to increase. This year, we\u2019ve seen the road toll come down and, at the same time, we\u2019ve seen the number of breath tests go up. We need to ensure we\u2019re focused on the highest-risk times, locations, and behaviours rather than just blanket speed limits, like the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a6b37e3aa1e461d850e0bedc8ff93cc\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, the Minister talked extensively about other things he believes will address the road toll, but he didn\u2019t really address how many he thought was acceptable to accept additional deaths and serious injuries for very small time savings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ec4a4f0eea04a4e909fffed1f9f8a94\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re talking about road safety, and so it\u2019s a bit hard to require the Minister to put a number on it and say this is the factor that we\u2019re considering, when he\u2019s just mentioned there are many other factors that are in consideration as well. Does the member have another supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236825d727123402794849ae130686601\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister believe that the chief trauma surgeon Dr Christopher Wakeman is wrong when he says, \u201CIf you hit a pedestrian at 30 kilometres an hour, there\u2019s a 90 percent chance they survive the crash. If you hit at 50 kilometres an hour, there\u2019s a 10 percent chance that they\u2019ll survive.\u201D, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022540c0adea3864787a072b1ddd5acfbda\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there are, of course, a range of factors which go into causing deaths and serious injuries on our roads, but the reality is that this Government is not going to just simply slow every New Zealander down to crawl around our cities and towns around this country, which is what the last Government wanted to do. The reality is that we are going to have a balanced approach to this issue, whereby we have slower speed limits around schools during pick-up and drop-off times, but it doesn\u2019t make any sense to make a shift worker going to work at 4 o\u2019clock in the morning have to crawl around their suburb at 30kph.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8c55d4990344f07a3438569120fab3e\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc4c726629f24133a93b38af69d71b60\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Green Party has used up all its allocation for today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db8c1c7fe862437488724dd42a258a6a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Disability Issues\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022 data-id=\u0022af4bd0e526e14756a3225de861caa6c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af4bd0e526e14756a3225de861caa6c6\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Disability Issues: Does she stand by her statement, \u201CThat is why we are prioritising disabled people, their families, and carers\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022551f653e1928452dbb17277f5d0a0b93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022551f653e1928452dbb17277f5d0a0b93\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Disability Issues):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. That\u2019s why we provided a record $1.1 billion funding boost to disability support services in this year\u2019s Budget. It\u2019s also why we have taken immediate action to stabilise the disability support system after an independent review found that the Ministry of Disabled People, Whaikaha, was ill-prepared to deliver these services when it was established in 2022. That review found the delivery of disability services was in a dire state, with unsustainable spending and a lack of fairness and transparency around what support disabled people can access. Our Government is determined to build a fair, sustainable, high-quality disability support system that delivers better outcomes for disabled people, based on their needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0d0a9e5b22b4bf08ef776fa9256dd97\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: How is she supporting disabled people when parents in their 60s and 70s are writing to her to say their disabled adult children were on the waiting list for residential homes but now have been told the list has been scrapped because of the Government\u2019s funding freeze on residential care facilities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5f03d469a174dddaa49fdfc4a7d844a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: There is not a funding freeze on residential facilities. There is no admissions freeze on residential services. The needs assessment and service coordination centres (NASCs)\u202Fare making decisions based on need and there are still residential spaces available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2fdc0ba145b4fdfb84bba8e8c00dc16\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: How is she prioritising families when Rachel, a nurse and mum of a severely disabled child, who works a night shift to be able to care for her\u00A0son during the day, has lost access to respite care because of her Government\u2019s decision?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3631d742c4a4321969059f6cfa9b131\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I know that it is incredibly challenging for families who are looking after disabled children. That is why it is absolutely critical that we have taken urgent action to stabilise the disability support service so that disabled people with the highest needs can continue to get fair and consistent access to the services they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb9e6a16f8bf4a7a909b4bccdff37281\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Ministry of Social Development suddenly no longer accessing telehealth autism diagnoses for adults despite evidence that it is robust and that for some, particularly in rural New Zealand, it is the only option to access support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215db0f7035d345b7a84d2a11dc67d76c\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m standing here as the Minister of Disability Issues, and assessments around disability support services are done by the NASCs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dc2d318c902402199d519967ae50c8e\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the autism community is anxious that her Government will change the eligibility criteria for people with autism spectrum disorder, no longer enabling them to access disability support services; and, if so, can she confirm that she will not make that change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270e70a9f862e472fb30fbb30fe45898a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I want to repeat what I said before. This Government has invested a boost of $1.1 billion extra funding into disability support services, because we know there are challenges ahead. What we must ensure, though, is that the support is targeted to those with the highest needs. There will be further work, recommended by the\u00A0independent review panel, in stabilising the system. We must look at flexible funding,\u00A0and the disability community will be engaged and consulted before any changes are made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022872744a3-2256-4cdd-a4cc-939836dc2b11\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da860fb8e97642f6a46b76b6afda1e7d\u0022\u003EHon Priyanca Radhakrishnan\u003C/span\u003E: Who are New Zealanders meant to believe: a Minister who says she\u2019s prioritising disabled people and families, or the hundreds of disabled people and families, some of whom, I understand, are in the gallery today, whose daily realities are very different and are urging her Government to stop their cost-cutting exercise and actually support them to be able to live with dignity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c8b0002e3d34313be9f1a0ec829bfd7\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: They can believe and have confidence in a Government that is investing an additional $1.1 billion in disability services, and not a member who completely disrespects their ability to understand that $1.1 billion of extra funding is not a cut. Unfortunately, we have a system that is broken. Our Government is going to fix it to ensure that those with the highest needs are able to access the services they require.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee672702816a4a02a442c58addbcec96\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Corrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3a87c3f47cc4890a340b6ce0e5b9214\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3a87c3f47cc4890a340b6ce0e5b9214\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Corrections: How is the Department of Corrections delivering on his priorities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad140fc751374669923e34358d0b8eaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad140fc751374669923e34358d0b8eaf\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Corrections):\u003C/span\u003E My four priorities for the corrections portfolio are increasing staff safety, ensuring prison capacity, improving staffing levels, and reducing reoffending through effective rehabilitation. There is a significant investment in prison capacity, a strong recruitment pipeline, outstanding rehabilitation across the network, and I\u2019m very proud of the work our Corrections front line does every day in relation to public safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e3d0f36113a4b809538627efb6660d6\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What improvements are being made to prison capacity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a72468e313b44f49bc4cef1eb361fcd\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Since September 2023, Corrections has reopened approximately 1,300 previously closed beds across the network. By the end of March next year, Corrections will reopen another 460. There\u2019ll be an additional 600 beds added to Waikeria, as well as the Budget 2024 investment of over 810 more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b14980dc4d394db4a707a683ddc328d8\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: How has recent legislative change supported rehabilitation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237c0b873e8854c29bbc519803d678512\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: The Corrections Amendment Bill, which passed last night, delivers on our coalition commitments. For the first time, remand, accused, and convicted prisoners will receive access to rehabilitation programmes. The coalition Government has invested $78 million to support this great initiative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bde139d715f14d648b6133ad61912bad\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: How does a strong recruitment pipeline contribute to his priorities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201e4727b30694e5ab06d1ec55e5bb8f3\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: For the first time in a long time, Corrections are now recruiting above the level of attrition. This means that we are starting to make progress on staff shortages. Our Corrections officers are supported by a significant investment in Budget \u201824 to deliver more effective, regular, and timely rehabilitation to prisoners, as well as ensure that the front line is well resourced and safer. I\u2019m very proud of our Corrections front line, who aren\u2019t always visible but do an outstanding job every day and have a key role to play in public safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022891c4037fd92439c85a21011a566a499\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cc3e8934981e45d8b0109ab7f2d467d4\u0022\u003EDunedin Hospital\u2014Government Announcement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u0022f48d9a6ec2a44aba8a6aea4913cd8a52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f48d9a6ec2a44aba8a6aea4913cd8a52\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That the House take note of an item of urgent public business\u2014that we debate the report of the new Dunedin Hospital. Thank you, Mr Speaker. All right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4e46b3f7ef3446ab7e9f1d845cae66d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fca9fd4adbd4b8e97b73fdb43017224\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Today, the Government released a report, an independent expert readiness review, on the new Dunedin Hospital. Today, the Government, via two of the Ministers\u2014the Minister of Health and the Minister for Infrastructure\u2014held a press conference in concert with this report and in reference to this report. But, in essence, to make their own announcements on the fact that they were no longer committed to building Dunedin Hospital, as had previously been the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIn fact, before the election, Dr Shane Reti, then spokesperson for health in Opposition, campaigned rigorously and explicitly on the fact that not only would the National Party reverse some minor changes that Labour was making to the new Dunedin Hospital but it would be fully funded, in budget, and that they would build Dunedin Hospital as always envisioned in the beginning. Today, they poured cold water all over that. They have broken their promises not only to the people of Dunedin but the people of Otago, the rural communities of Otago, South Otago, and Southland\u2014throughout a huge and important regional part of this country\u2014for no other reason than some basic cost saving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u201CBroken promises\u201D is a phrase that can be bandied around, but when something as blatant as this\u2014 and something that is considered the number one issue in Dunedin and the number one issue for people throughout the South\u2014is just dismissed as a cost-saving exercise, then I think the words \u201Cbroken promises\u201D are nothing short of incredibly accurate. The Government backtracking on this promise to fully fund and build the new Dunedin Hospital as originally promised not only breaks this promise but it leads to other\u00A0consequences, particularly when we think about the erosion of health services, particularly when we think about the flow-on effects of that for the people in not only the\u00A0South but for all people of New Zealand. And the audacity\u2014the absolute audacity\u2014those Ministers had today, to stand there at a press conference and pit other regions against the Dunedin region as a means by which to justify the fact that they are trying to save money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe audacity of saying, \u201CBut if we build Dunedin Hospital as has already been designed; as has already been clinically approved and clinically picked over to the nth degree; as has been value-managed and reviewed and reviewed and reviewed; as has had cut all fat out of the system already. If we build you this hospital, that we\u2019re pretty sure we can\u2019t make any more compromises on, then the poor people of Nelson, the poor people of Taranaki, the poor people of Hawke\u2019s Bay, the poor people of Tauranga will miss out on their regional health facilities as well.\u201D How dare they couch this callous announcement, this cynical cost-saving exercise, by blaming it on other people and blaming it on people that may have a visceral reaction to that as if it\u2019s their own fault?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve talked about the health system erosions, but one of the things that the authors of this report, the new Dunedin Hospital review, mentioned in their review\u2014and I would like to acknowledge the authors, there were several reviewers including the lead author Robert Rust, who I know is an expert and has many years of huge contribution to health services across Australasia. The report is interesting. It gives several recommendations across those various domains of governance, across the domains of scope and services, and across the domains of cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI must say, I was quite surprised that when I came to the cost recommendations, whilst almost all of it is redacted\u2014so it\u2019s hard for us to make definitive assumptions and have definitive knowledge about the position, but it wasn\u2019t that emphatic. There were lots of lots of sentences that used the words \u201Cprobably\u201D and \u201Cpossibly\u201D and things like that. I think for the Government to catastrophise on the basis of this report and break its promise to the people of Dunedin and Otago is disgraceful\u2014and Southland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237a99b65-4919-4800-830d-3dd7c920d5cd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e695eb74fbe643c2b1d9f19de0bcfef9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: South Island.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246dbfeec264442949a3dd43e6bde9e98\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: South Island, essentially. But that\u2019s the theme, isn\u2019t it? Now, we also knew that there would be opposition from officials. We know that Te Whatu Ora were, essentially, strong-armed into presenting some options for cuts previously to this project, and none of them were particularly pretty. Health New Zealand\u2019s southern leadership team had said, \u201CAny scope reduction of any form is ill-advised\u201D and \u201Cwill increase ongoing operational costs, reduce clinical functionality, decrease the likelihood of us realising the patient flow and efficiency benefits of the New Dunedin Hospital, and lead to higher costs in the medium to long term for Te Whatu Ora.\u201D That\u2019s the thing when you\u2019re trying to chop some cost out of the capital expenditure, isn\u2019t it? Sometimes it\u2019s the operational expenses that suffer, not to mention all the health inefficiencies that flow\u00A0on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThinking about these very specific recommendations, the first thing that comes to mind when I looked at the report\u2014which is considered and it has some really good advice in it\u2014is how are the people of Dunedin going to react about this? I say Dunedin in this instance because I know on Saturday there is a rally being organised. They have endured and suffered through months, now, of uncertainty about what this new Government had planned for this development. They have heard bits and pieces of information. They have heard the Minister of Health, in particular, and sometimes the Minister for Infrastructure, talk out of both sides of their mouths, quite frankly, about promising \u201Ca\u201D hospital for Dunedin or promising \u201Ca\u201D service consideration for Dunedin without actually committing in the way that the previous Government had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe outcry from the people of Dunedin\u2014because they won\u2019t be happy and they know that they have one tool available to them at this moment, and that is their very, very strong, their very, very concerted, and their very, very unified voice. I\u2019m sure that if Christopher Luxon had visited Dunedin during the election campaign or during the election period, he may have had a taste of what that feels like, but given that this Government has now chosen a slash-and-burn ideology project instead of finding a way round this dilemma, I can only imagine that Shane Reti will be passing that information on to the Prime Minister about what he could expect when he visits Otago next time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca05486522924769bb3c28b0786f80f9\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: $290 million extra.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3185ec9f15a4b99b0bb425ac403dffe\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Financial irresponsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1588ab2bd6c43ecb639ab0fdf195352\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: Not really. When we think about the impact on services, I think we run a real possibility here of getting the worst of both worlds. We know\u2014we absolutely know\u2014the more we delay this project, the higher the costs become.\u00A0When we look on the Government\u2019s \u201Cred list\u201D\u2014which is now up to 20 projects nationally\u2014and when we look and compare that to six months ago, the costs have gone up hugely. Of those same 18 comparable projects, none of which have moved off that \u201Cred list\u201D but the amount of money that is concerned with those projects has risen by $640\u00A0million already. Sitting around and reviewing this hospital again will not do anything other than cost more money. That, therefore, leaves us in a situation where we have a lesser hospital that costs more than what we could have if we\u2019d just done it properly in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThis reminds me of the ferries debacle. A new Government coming and going, \u201CGosh, that\u2019s a big price tag\u201D\u2014coincidentally around $3 billion\u2014and saying, \u201CWe must scrap it\u201D, even though they had no plan B and no ability to do anything afterwards. Now they\u2019ve looked at this and they\u2019ve gone, \u201CThat\u2019s an awful lot of money\u201D and have made a knee-jerk reaction to make the wrong decision and to put the whole project into a precarious state\u2014let alone the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not only about broken promises, it\u2019s not only about the impact on services, it\u2019s not only about the community outcry\u2014and I look forward to joining the people in Dunedin on Saturday as they vent their expressions and they have an opportunity to react to this Government\u2019s announcements as they can on Saturday\u2014but it is also about looking forward to the future. If the current Minister of Health can\u2019t get his head around an infrastructure programme and an infrastructure plan and has to make these types of decisions, then I can only feel genuinely concerned for the people of Nelson and for the people of all those other regions, not because Dunedin Hospital gets their hospital but because this Minister is not competent to make the tough decisions and to do it when needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022026f798e4fd64ef5bc717bdc140e73a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022026f798e4fd64ef5bc717bdc140e73a0\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Members across this House agree that the people of Dunedin and its surrounding regions deserve and need a modern, fit for purpose set of hospital facilities. Now, that commitment to the people of Dunedin was first made in 2017, and when that commitment was made, the people of Dunedin had a right to expect that by now that hospital would have been delivered. In fact, in 2018\u2014December of 2018\u2014the Government of the time announced that the hospital would be built in two stages, with the outpatient and day surgery building fast tracked and the larger inpatient building due to be finished either five or six years after that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EAs we stand here today, in Dunedin, on the ill-chosen site for the Dunedin Hospital, there is steel in the ground but not enough progress, and we as an incoming Government have been faced with a significant set of challenges. The reality of Opposition is that you observe projects from the outside and you remain hopeful that the Government of the day has things under control, but what we found on assuming office was that the Dunedin Hospital project was anything but in control. In fact, one of the first major capital budget decisions we had to make for the health sector was to put aside an additional $300\u00A0million for the Dunedin Hospital. I would ask members opposite to desist from the false claim that we have reduced funding for this project. In fact, one of our most significant decisions was to immediately increase funding for this project in recognition of the fact that the costs have blown out so significantly that it would be impossible to deliver it without that extra funding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhat we found was a project that has in fact been plagued with problems since, I think, the most ill-fated decision\u2014which was made in May 2018\u2014when the Government of the day announced that the new hospital would be built on the old Cadbury chocolate factory site and parts of the surrounding blocks. Now, I know that that decision at the time seemed magical, because, for the people of Dunedin, the sadness of seeing that site unoccupied would be met with a new hospital, but actually, not much work was done to assess whether that was a good site for the new hospital. What was found\u2014and I reference here the advice we have received from experts\u2014was that the extraordinary cost premiums associated with the land purchase, together with the demolition costs, contaminated ground, piling difficulty, flood-level risk, and an extremely constrained construction site flanked on three sides by State highways made it an extremely unattractive project for contractors and suppliers, which further drove up construction costs. These numbers I find compelling, so I wish to share them with the House: since the 2017 business case, the cost per square meter to build the hospital has tripled, from $10,000 per square meter to $30,000 per square meter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EIt is not our job in Government or my job today to lament where those poor decisions have led us. It is our job to get on and deliver a hospital for the people of Dunedin, and we have set about doing that in the most responsible manner in which we can. Today, you have seen the Minister of Health and the Minister for Infrastructure go to Dunedin to be upfront with the people there about the choices that we face. We have released the Rust report, which has objectively analysed whether or not the Dunedin Hospital project can be delivered within budget. What that report makes clear is that even with the additional $300\u00A0million that this Government is committed to adding to the existing appropriation for this project\u2014even with that\u2014the project is highly unlikely to be delivered on budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWe do have a choice at that juncture. The choice that we have is that we can, on the one hand, carry on lifelessly ignorant to that fact, or we can take steps to get it back on track\u2014we have chosen the latter course. What we have presented are two options that we are considering in good faith, and we wish the people of Dunedin to know that we are considering these two options. The first option is to revise the project specification in scope and within the existing structural envelope, and the second option is a staged development on the old hospital site, including a new clinical services building and refurbishing the existing ward tower.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003ENow, I have absolute clarity from members opposite that they think that there is no amount of money that would be too much for Dunedin Hospital. I put to you that that just can\u2019t be the case, because, actually, when we make choices about the way we spend New Zealanders\u2019 money, there are always opportunity costs and trade-offs. And the advice that we have received tells us that this project is on course to blow out millions and millions of dollars more. Now, those are millions of dollars that we wish to invest in health infrastructure. Mark my words, we will be investing more every year in health infrastructure across this country, because despite their rhetoric, the last Government wasn\u2019t very good at getting new hospital buildings built. It wasn\u2019t very good at actually redeveloping facilities or using money for good effect in the health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhat we are going to do is have to do work across our hospital system: in Whang\u0101rei, in Nelson, in Tauranga, in Invercargill, where there are suboptimal facilities, where upgrades are required. The choice that we have to confront is whether it is, in that context, appropriate to let this project continue down its sad, sad path of cost blowout after cost blowout after cost blowout. The choice that we have made is to be pragmatic and upfront with New Zealanders\u2014that it\u2019s time, actually, for us to take some sensible steps to control those costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to be very interested to see whether Ayesha Verrall will stand up and tell us that she is proud of the decision making that occurred over the past six years in relation to this project, because what we have found is a pattern of actually completely inadequate planning occurring and a reluctance to confront emerging problems. What we have seen is that the last Government knew this project was going wildly off course and chose not to take steps to bring it back on track. It actively chose not to do that and instead, I believe, ultimately was pulling the wool over the eyes of both the people of Dunedin, but actually us as an Opposition, because we were not in a position to know how badly things were actually going in this project until we assumed office and were given the ability to look at all of the information about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EOne of the facts that has surprised me about it, which I can barely believe, is that the actual business case for the project was still being developed while the project was being built\u2014I\u2019d love to hear members opposite explain to me how that is good practice; that despite the years that had been spent on the project, there was still no clear plan for the pathology lab, no plan for the refurbishment of the existing facilities, no plan for the car parking. All of that was estimated to cost hundreds of millions more but hadn\u2019t been included in the overall plans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EWhat we see is a haphazardness. I\u2019ll tell you something that happens when you do that, which is that those who are building the project and are involved in the project see you coming\u2014they see you coming. They say, \u201CThis is a Government that can\u2019t even put together a business case. It can\u2019t even be clear about the time lines for this project or what its budget parameters are.\u201D It gives them complete ability to continue down a path of excessive costs. It\u2019s time, actually, that we were realistic, that we were clear that every project, no matter how important, still must face some budget constraints.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003EI want to finish these remarks by saying this: delivering people really good health facilities so that our nurses and doctors and health workers can operate in modern facilities that allow them to effectively and efficiently deliver services is an important challenge for New Zealand. Dunedin deserves good facilities, other parts of the country too. We will invest more money in this, but we\u2019ll also deliver plans and budgets that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022acd042875b9c442b9055632116658bcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acd042875b9c442b9055632116658bcc\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It has been enlightening to hear from the National Party, with two National Ministers in Dunedin today willing to say anything to get elected, but simply can\u2019t be trusted. Because failing to confirm to build the Dunedin Hospital to its full capacity is a complete betrayal and an utter kick in the guts for Dunedin. Yes, Dunedinites are angry. Actually, they\u2019re furious to see two Ministers shape up in Dunedin and give us what they\u2019ve given us today. We can\u2019t trust this Government one iota. They slither and squirm away from any clear answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EDunedin and the deep South community is like no other. We\u2019re a hardy lot down South, but we deserve access to healthcare. Not leaking roofs in existing buildings. We don\u2019t deserve stressed doctors, nurses who want to go to Australia because they can\u2019t cope with the stress this health system is under, pathologists who don\u2019t know where on earth they\u2019re going to be seated or sited. This Government is bleeding our health system to death to fund trickle-down tax cuts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EDunedin deserves a Government that works for people and planet, not this coalition of cuts. The health of our people has to come before the pockets of the wealthy, and we need desperately to invest in our health system so it\u2019s fit to cater for all of our needs and our communities. On Saturday, we\u2019re going to show the coalition Government exactly how we feel. Do you know what ticks me off? Suggesting that $3 billion for health for the deep South is unaffordable\u2014$3 billion for a hospital complex, when the Government tells us that $10 billion to explore a possible tunnel for Wellington is cheap as chips. \u201CCheap as chips\u201D\u2014$10 billion to explore a tunnel for Wellington. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EHow much have we spent on potholes? We\u2019re spending $5 billion on potholes. We\u2019re spending $1.4 billion to adapt a road around the Dunedin Hospital, but not on healthcare. Do you think people are a bit mad in the deep South? You\u2019re telling me\u2014they are. If this Government gets one vote out of Dunedin at the next election I will be surprised because this Government has accelerated a funding crisis for universities as well, including the University of Otago. This Government\u2019s massively slashed research funding for Dunedin\u2019s Crown research institutes. And now we see this betrayal of every Dunedinite; they seeking to divide\u2014divide rather than build, as promised\u2014the Dunedin Hospital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EWe haven\u2019t yet had time to fully understand what the coalition\u2019s Dunedin Hospital downgrade will mean because they\u2019re slithering and squirming away from any detail. But two things are really clear: this is National\u2019s biggest broken election promise, and it is one that they can\u2019t shaft off to their minor coalition partners either. This is all on National. Did they even look at the cost increases that Labour was blaming on their own proposed downgrades when National loudly proclaimed and promised to deliver on a full build during the election campaign? What did Michael Woodhouse say? Michael Woodhouse, I know they kicked him out, but he said, \u201CThe South deserves a hospital [that will] be fit for purpose for generations, not a patch up job.\u201D And that\u2019s what we\u2019ve got\u2014a patch-up job by a Government that doesn\u2019t know what they\u2019re doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re cancelling the link between the islands and they are cancelling healthcare. So what we\u2019re seeing today is their strategy to deflect their dishonesty by turning people against each other, by proposing that reasonable healthcare in the South is going to detract from others, when in fact this Government wants to spend money on useless projects like looking at tunnels in Wellington. This Government does not care for our communities. If this Government gets a vote out of Dunedin it\u2019ll get Mark Patterson\u2019s vote, perhaps. But will it get any others? I doubt it. What gives me hope is our community, and we\u2019re not taking this sitting down. We are strong together and I look forward to joining in what will be the biggest protest march in our city for a long, long time on Saturday, because on Saturday we march for our city, we march for our region, and we march for the Dunedin Hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022edde7ca9329041de9f04d8423bccc1ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edde7ca9329041de9f04d8423bccc1ba\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s New Zealand First\u2019s call. Let me just explain to the member Simon Court that I have in front of me an agreed process that was put together by the Business Committee earlier in the year for debates like this. I\u2019m just following that pattern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u00223561a3797d6a4534af1ac0fd55cd12fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223561a3797d6a4534af1ac0fd55cd12fa\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First in this debate around the Dunedin Hospital rebuild. I will not sugar-coat this. This is not the news that southern New Zealand wanted to hear today, but it is important that we are honest with them. Whilst I appreciate the passion of my colleague from down South\u2014Scott Willis over in the Green Party\u2014we do have to live in the real world. As a cost blowout, $3 billion is an order of magnitude above the $1.2 billion to $1.4 billion where this project started out, and the $1.6 billion when we came in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250b27bcbb37b46ffbcff1770e0b37073\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Have you read the document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fec97ce8c294c15aee2a008d9e46c2a\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: I have read the doc. I tell you what, Ayesha Verrall: the ill-fated December 2022 announcement where you blinked\u2014if you had kept going, we would not have been in this position today. Your decision to rescope and delay and hit that inflation surge absolutely is the reason that we are here today, because whilst this project was beset by a litany of errors\u2014it was the wrong site, it was incredibly expensive to buy that site, the demolition costs were incredibly high, it was contaminated, it\u2019s flood-prone, it\u2019s on reclaimed land, it\u2019s had piling difficulties, and they didn\u2019t even provision for parking. Within the rescoped work that Mr Rust has done in his report, he\u2019s had to add in $400\u00A0million for auxiliary stuff that wasn\u2019t originally budgeted for in the original business case, including parking for a building in the centre of the city. People need to be able to get to the hospital. As has been pointed out, this is a base hospital for southern New Zealand, so people have to travel to get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EIt does speak to the wider issue, and the Hon Nicola Willis mentioned this too, that we are having far too many cost blowouts in our infrastructure projects. We have got to get our arms around these projects and make sure that we are not facing, time after time after time, cost blowouts. It\u2019s $3 billion here, Scott. It\u2019s another $2 billion there; it\u2019s another $500\u00A0million there. It all adds up. This is what we\u2019ve got to face, particularly in an environment where we have got an economy that has been in recession for two years. That is the stark reality we face in those economic conditions, but we are taking stock of this project. There are two options, and we must make sure that there is adequate and proper provision for healthcare in Dunedin in particular.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThe one thing I would like\u2014and I\u2019ve told this to Dr Reti\u2014is that we also have to face some reality in the South. The growth is in Central Otago. There needs to be capacity added in Central Otago. We need to use this point to fully address that. When you\u2019ve got 10\u00A0percent growth a year, we need to be facing that reality as well. There is also capacity within Southland, and I know the Hon Penny Simmonds is lobbying for an extra operating theatre too. So, within the South, we do deserve proper access to healthcare and adequate health facilities. This is a chance to relook at that, to look at all the options. We have two for Dunedin Hospital. That doesn\u2019t go far enough. We need to look at provision in Central Otago. We need to look for provision in Southland as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EThose are the options on the table, but it is the reality. It\u2019s not a reality that I wanted to be standing up here facing\u2014that New Zealand First wanted to be standing up here facing\u2014but that is the reality of politics. Sometimes really tough decisions come down the pipe. Sometimes you inherit a mess. Sometimes you\u2019re in charge of sorting it out, and this is the place we find ourselves in today. We will make sure that the provision of health in the South is where it needs to be, but the current plan does not get us there for the money that we have to spend. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022286c12d57885420684bb318987cbdd25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022286c12d57885420684bb318987cbdd25\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I call the member, can I apologise to him. We have this pre-organised list. It\u2019s got seven columns in it, and I looked at the wrong one. I don\u2019t like this kind of system, but there you go; it\u2019s what we live with. My apologies again. I call on Simon Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022 data-id=\u00222804a419f7834be19d0e1e5ec6127522\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222804a419f7834be19d0e1e5ec6127522\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This unfortunate decision today does not preclude the people of Dunedin receiving exceptionally high-quality healthcare services provisioned by the public health system. What it is, unfortunately, is another indictment of New Zealand\u2019s public sector agencies being unable to deliver infrastructure projects on time and within a fixed budget. It\u2019s not too different from KiwiRail\u2019s iReX ferry terminal project, which blew out from $700 million to over $3 billion. But let\u2019s just explore some of the problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe previous Labour Government had a health Minister who went mountain biking during COVID. The next one, Hipkins, he decided to try to restructure the entire health system while the pandemic was still going. Surprisingly, while all of these things were happening, they took their eye off the ball and they said, \u201CLook, we\u2019ll go ahead and we\u2019ll build Dunedin Hospital on a chocolate factory site.\u201D\u2014that, it turns out, was quite unsuited for the level of services, the scale of buildings and infrastructure they intended to deliver. They were hugely optimistic, the previous Government. They said that this health facility could be delivered for about $1.4 billion, and then, lo and behold, there\u2019s been a series of cost blowouts, it\u2019s a few hundred million more. Optimism bias crept in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EThe fact that half the scope, the car park, the pathology lab, and all these other things you typically need when you run a hospital were left out, that\u2019s another example of the dishonesty shown in the business case and project development process which has led to under-pricing and fixing a budget which\u2014the Cabinet Ministers in the previous Government are looking at me now as if somehow this is the coalition Government\u2019s problem. It\u2019s their problem that they caused by failing to ask adequate questions around scope, failing to have the level of competence and professionalism that you need when you\u2019re commissioning major infrastructure, that leads us to this place today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, what the Rust report has determined is that we have a problem where, essentially, the services that the Government has committed to deliver can\u2019t be delivered within that budget\u2014$1.88\u00A0billion. The coalition Government increased the budget this year by $300\u00A0million, but it\u2019s not going to be possible within that budget, apparently, to deliver what\u2019s been committed to. I\u2019m a civil engineer. I\u2019ve never started a project without having the client confirm the budget. Yet, apparently, the previous Government made a series of instructions to the extent that piling was under way without a business case being approved. That is quite outrageous. I\u2019m sure that, when a Dunedin Hospital is finally delivered, the people of Dunedin will get what they\u2019re asking for and what they need, but it\u2019s certainly not going to be what the previous Government signed off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also true that when it comes to scope and need, this Government has to consider the whole of New Zealand as well as the people of Dunedin and the people of Otago. It\u2019s quite clear there is a significant growing population in Central Otago that also has significant need. We are going to have to make the most of the assets we\u2019ve got. We\u2019re going to have to make a dollar go further in New Zealand when it comes to health infrastructure and all types of infrastructure, and we\u2019re going to have to make sure that we deliver with value for money in mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003ENow, in terms of the delegations that I\u2019ve been given by the Minister for Infrastructure, Chris Bishop, it\u2019s to look at health infrastructure through that lens of how do we get better value for money from the assets we\u2019ve got? How do we make the most of the money we have to spend? Well, one of the ways we might do that is to say, \u201CWell, if there is a fixed budget and there\u2019s a time constraint\u2014we want a new facility developed and delivered in a certain time frame\u2014then we need to look at public-private partnerships (PPPs).\u201D, where you can outsource the delivery risk, you can agree a fixed cost and a fixed time, and if it\u2019s not delivered on time and to budget, that liability sits with the contractor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003EImagine if Labour had had any appetite at all to involve the private sector in actually funding, financing, and delivering this project\u2014it\u2019s quite likely that it would have been delivered by now within the original budget committed to. That\u2019s an initiative that this Government\u2019s going to take. We look forward to announcing more about our PPP policy that\u2019s going to help health in the near future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef92eac0084c41b1a874fafa8cad5d96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef92eac0084c41b1a874fafa8cad5d96\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Today is a milestone day on the slipping away of New Zealand\u2019s healthcare system to one characterised by cuts, cold-heartedness, and underfunding. It is a day in which we remark on the broken promise of the National Government, who campaigned on building Dunedin the hospital that it needed, and it sought those votes with such a level of cynicism we see from what\u2019s been done today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe people of Dunedin need a new hospital; their current hospital is unsuitable and it is unsafe\u2014500 instances of surgical equipment being contaminated every year. It is not a suitable place to be continuing treatment for people. It needs to be replaced. The scope reductions that will be entailed by what the Government is embarking on will cause additional cost. That always happens when you build a hospital that is too small: it ends up costing you more down the line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EWhat I want to spend my time on today is the desperate political play that this Government has done. We\u2019re seeing it here and we\u2019ve seen it before. Let\u2019s go through it step by step. This report seems, in many parts, to be a very good report\u2014the Rust review. However, everything about the costings is blacked out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EI take no reassurance from the other side of the House when they say that there\u2019s been a $3\u00A0billion blowout. The word \u201C$3 billion\u201D is not in the report; it\u2019s nowhere. For those of you who got up with your Government talking points and said that, go into the report and try and find it. This is a manufactured crisis about the cost of this hospital. The Rust review says it probably could not be achieved within the existing appropriation\u2014that doesn\u2019t mean certainly; that might mean it\u2019s a 50\u00A0percent probability or a 40 percent probability. It is certainly not the case that the Government has the right to claim that it\u2019s going to cost $3 billion. That is untrue. Where did this figure come from? Well, I think if we admitted Chris Bishop to the gastroenterology department at Dunedin Hospital, we might be able to get a scope and find out where that $3 billion figure came from, because that is utterly made up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThis is exactly the type of process we\u2019ve seen when this Government wants to cut healthcare: they make up a scandal. They said Health New Zealand was $1.4 billion over budget and they had to fire the board. They said it was because of back-office bloat. They said it was because there was 14 layers of management; well, we found out that was untrue. We found out that they didn\u2019t have the organisational chart that Dr Reti said there was. We found out that they actually hired more nurses and that it wasn\u2019t anything to do with the back-office cuts. They did that in order to justify cutting staff out of our health system, and that\u2019s exactly what\u2019s going on with Dunedin Hospital. They have put out a report, they are manufacturing a crisis, and then the worst thing is that they are trying to play other communities off against New Zealand. That is so dirty. It\u2019s disgraceful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EThe fact is that if this Government wasn\u2019t so reckless with its $2.9 billion tax cuts for landlords, there would be money to meet the needs of New Zealanders\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220aa3777b7b7f41a991e53ffcda9f75e7\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: If you hadn\u2019t been so reckless with everything, there would be heaps of money there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f205561b7de498ea5bf9add0b8bb2f1\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014for their healthcare. If they weren\u2019t giving $216\u00A0million\u2014$216 million from Dr Foster\u2019s party\u2014to a single tobacco party, we would be able to give New Zealanders the healthcare that they deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266bde6bdee194d9eb643c95b05b326ca\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think we should come back to the motion\u2014to the debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9929041403d482dbed517c9b5446090\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: These cuts to New Zealand\u2019s hospitals are about the bad choices that this Government has made. This is a deeply cynical political playbook that we see from them over there again and again and again. They made a bad Budget. They made reckless decisions. They bought their way into Government with tax cuts. And then, New Zealanders are paying the price.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003EDunedinites are being asked to pay the price\u2014and all the communities of Otago and Southland that that hospital will support. Well, kia kaha to the people of Southland and Otago. I learnt a lot of lessons from those people, as a medical student in the old Dunedin Hospital. One of the lessons that they taught me when I was learning to be a doctor was\u00A0to\u00A0take responsibility. Well, this Government needs to stop blaming other people for its problems. It needs to take responsibility. I\u2019m looking forward to seeing all the people\u00A0in Dunedin out on the street on the weekend. We can expect that this Government understands just how much the people of the southern region think that this is a broken\u00A0promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5f4e1ef1084463db607bac5d6f9eca4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5f4e1ef1084463db607bac5d6f9eca4\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just seeking some clarification there. We\u2019re discouraged from interrupting speeches wherever necessary, so I held off until now. There was guidance provided then to come back to the motion, and the point that was being made was around choices the Government has made in the context of potential alternative funding streams for the Dunedin Hospital. Now, there are additional speeches to come, and that, in my mind, was entirely relevant to the motion, and so I just want some clarification\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289c1f5dc82264ba1a1e80f9ae1afc662\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: My clarification was it wasn\u2019t about the Government; it pointed to a specific party in the coalition Government. That\u2019s why I made that ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0580d46ee624f33b3f8cef70825bb63\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242200ce218ea49228f23dbc416ca8a25\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Thank you. Is there another call? No. Is there another call from here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00226aa62094a1724ae5974b7ed1ff8f57bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226aa62094a1724ae5974b7ed1ff8f57bc\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E It is interesting that the Government benches don\u2019t want to take any more calls. Now, I would like to tell a little bit of a story from my perspective about Dunedin Hospital because, of course, I\u2019m very privileged to be the member of Parliament for the great city of Dunedin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIn Dunedin, we have a hospital, we have a tertiary hospital, and it is a training hospital for the medical school at the University of Otago, where Dr Ayesha Verrall trained some time ago. There\u2019s never been any dispute until today when I hear from the Hon Mark Patterson that perhaps the tertiary hospital should be in Central Otago. That is a totally new thing to be hearing, because it has always been based in Dunedin, as the city that then has to do that tertiary-level care for the wider Otago and Southland regions. Of course, those areas also need hospitals, and the issue here is about the big tertiary regional hospital.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENational has said lots of things about this hospital over time. One former Minister of Health said Dunedin Hospital is not going to be a long-term preeminent tertiary hospital. He went on to say there is a reality that can\u2019t be voted away: New Zealand probably has too many doctors. Over the next 10 years, we will need fewer hospital beds than we currently do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f413ee1713fb4da2a0f3ee500e77846a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Who said that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a256f2f7bf74fb38bf6331f7006cc21\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: That was the Minister Bill English in the late 1990s talking about the health system. Of course, we remember that, when the Labour Government came into Government in 2017, the state of the infrastructure around New Zealand, the state of the hospitals\u2014there were many stories about mould running down the walls in various hospitals around the country. We heard then from the Minister for Finance, \u201COh, well, this Labour Government doesn\u2019t know how to build things, because the whole of the new Dunedin Hospital isn\u2019t up yet.\u201D Well, at least Labour was building things. You can\u2019t knock things over if you\u2019re not building them in the first place. Now, National, to their credit, did say that they would\u2014they recanted from what Bill English had said and they said they would build a hospital, a new tertiary hospital in Dunedin, and set up the Southern Partnership Group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIn 2017, there was the decision on the location of the new hospital, and this is an outpatients building and an inpatients building. For anybody who\u2019s been to Dunedin recently and driven along the one ways, you will have seen the new outpatients building that looks like a finished building\u2014it\u2019s not finished but it\u2019s looking good. The inpatients building is the building that the Government members seem obsessed\u2014totally obsessing about the fact that it\u2019s built on a former chocolate factory. It was so patronising to hear the Minister of Finance say that the Cadbury choice was somehow magical. It was not a magical choice. If anybody knows Dunedin, you know that there are many hills and there is not an abundance of flat land that is ready to be built on with significant vertical buildings. This was a choice; it was in the middle of town. It was a choice that was made. In that time, there was consenting; there was the acquisition of land as well. Of course, some of their consenting was done under a fast-tracked process that did not override environmental protections\u2014because that can be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, at the last election, when I was standing to be the member of Parliament for Dunedin, National made many promises about this hospital. They promised that any changes that Labour had made to decrease the scope\u2014so by two operating theatres and a positron emission tomography (PET) scanner, and some shelled beds. They said, \u201CWe\u2019re going to undo that. Shame on Labour for making any cuts.\u201D That was their promise. That was the spokesperson for National, Dr Shane Reti, now the Minister of Health. He came to Dunedin, he said that, and the Hon Michael Woodhouse, who was standing against me, said it over and over again. What do we get when National is in Government? We just get cuts. That is all we can expect from this Government: cuts, cuts, cuts. I look forward to seeing the people of Dunedin and the wider South on Saturday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022979e624f108c4674a02f0b9c16629e68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022979e624f108c4674a02f0b9c16629e68\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E What a shameful day for this Government. What a shameful day to go out and election campaign to deliberately mislead voters, knowing that they had no intention of ever delivering on the promise of Dunedin Hospital. That is callous politics. It is throwing the people of the South under the bus, and now they are shamefully trying to gaslight people to say that there is this crisis that once again doesn\u2019t exist, just to suit their political purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWhen I go doorknocking most weeks, surveying my constituents about what is the most important issue in the electorate, what comes up first, time and time again\u2014in every part of the electorate, whether it is in South Dunedin, whether it is K\u0101k\u0101 Point, Balclutha, Middlemarch, right across the whole of the Taieri electorate\u2014is access to healthcare and the new Dunedin Hospital. They are as important to the people of Taieri as the cost of living crisis, and that is because in my electorate about a quarter of the population are over the age of 60, so healthcare is really important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EWhen they voted last election, many of them were sceptical about the National Party promises but they desperately wanted access to healthcare. They saw the need for it, and they told me that had a very big bearing on how they voted. Well, those people will be so let down, the ones who put their faith in the National Government. The fact that many of them didn\u2019t and that I stand here today as their representative shows that they have long memories of the type of antics that this Government has done previously, where they\u2019ve talked up the need for a hospital and then done absolutely nothing to deliver it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe other side, the Government, are really misleading with their narrative around this hospital, and this has been clarified as well by the former Southern Partnership chair, the Hon Pete Hodgson. He\u2019s saying that the costs that they are anticipating of the blowout, $3\u00A0billion\u2014his word is \u201Cabsurd\u201D. What they have done to concoct this narrative is add pathology, the car park, and a refurbishment costed at $400 million. They have talked up the problems of the site. The fact is that the hospital is not just about services; it is about the economic development and lifeblood of Dunedin being a centre of medical excellence, and that requires a hospital to have proximity to both the university and to the polytech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EAll the issues that were mentioned by Nicola Willis have already been resolved. It was 2.7\u00A0percent of the total budget to do that remediation and all of that work is now complete. The land was bought actually incredibly cheaply\u2014$11 million\u2014because Cadbury wanted to get out of town, so there was already value for money in that purchase. It\u2019s just so important that the hospital has the proximity to the university so that the medical school can remain the centre of excellence that we see so profoundly from Otago University.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThe fact of the matter is that this Government basically hates the South Island. We\u2019ve got plenty of evidence. They\u2019ve destroyed the possibility, or it\u2019s looking very likely, of having the rail-enabled ferries that will ensure that the Hillside workshop investment by the Labour Government, the revitalisation of the Hillside workshops, bringing so many jobs to my people in South Dunedin\u2014they depend on rail-enabled ferries, and this Government is now putting that into a very big question mark. That is bad news for Hillside. They don\u2019t care about the ramifications. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThey don\u2019t care about our roads. There are no roads of national significance anywhere around my electorate. In fact, the map from Waka Kotahi doesn\u2019t even have the South Island on it. The worst bit is that they prefer to put the tax breaks for big tobacco forced on this National Government by a minor party ahead of the healthcare needs of New Zealanders and ahead of their promises to the people of the South, and that is the people\u00A0of\u00A0Dunedin, the people of Invercargill, all the people in the rural areas in between who find it so difficult to access healthcare and who have waited so long and fought so hard. Well, my message to them is make sure, wherever you are on Saturday, to come down to the Octagon at midday, put on your T-shirts, and send a message to this Government that\u00A0you will not accept anything less than the hospital that they promised that they would deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022acd6a8de8cf249b4ad239325a96d873c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acd6a8de8cf249b4ad239325a96d873c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a National Party call, so I\u2019m going to take the National Party call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022037697ea5d584a048943308f88e0eced\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022037697ea5d584a048943308f88e0eced\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. We\u2019ve heard a lot from the other side about the lack of a new hospital in Dunedin. I wonder if the members opposite might remember who was in Government for the last six years\u2014that did not deliver such a hospital. This entire discussion would not be necessary if the Government of the day, six years ago, had gotten under way and actually built the damn thing. We\u2019ve heard about responsibility needing to be taken in terms of what this Government had inherited, but if this Government had inherited a hospital in the first place, there would not be need for a new hospital. A bit of reality needs to be injected into the conversation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard about issues having already been resolved. Well, that\u2019s really interesting, because if the issue of needing a hospital had been resolved in the first place, again, it would be a moot point. We would not need to be having this discussion. The people of New Zealand, the people of Dunedin particularly, would have the healthcare services, the facilities that they need, that we\u2019re hearing so much about now from people who were very quiet about it in the last six years when, patently, a new hospital was not being built.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe opportunity cost of the additional funding needed to build the hospital is such that not only is that funding not available for other aspects of healthcare in Dunedin\u2014or,\u00A0indeed, across the country\u2014in addition, the six years wasted by the previous Government in which they were busily not building a hospital has seen construction costs raised hugely. It\u2019s going to be very topical in the House this afternoon\u201441 percent increase in construction costs since 2019, a huge additional amount, even leaving aside the cock-ups and the poor decision-making in relation to this hospital particularly. And the delay, therefore, represents an opportunity cost in terms of other things that that money could have been spent on in this space or, indeed, other things to improve the lives of the good people of Dunedin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe project, as conceived by the previous Government, was on shaky foundations, poor foundations, both literally and physically, from the very start. We are putting in additional funding. It is simply not accurate to characterise that as any kind of a cut. Dunedin does not have a hospital now that was promised by the previous Government. It will because we are promising to get on and do it. We\u2019re going to listen to the people. We\u2019re going to get on and do it, and, actually, they will then have the facilities they need and deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00222b4e0c54ef304e7cbbb1479f00cad2f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b4e0c54ef304e7cbbb1479f00cad2f2\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: First call for the available call was made by Rachel Brooking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229729ee303476494a9ae8b20f252407c6\u0022\u003ERachel Boyack\u003C/span\u003E: Boyack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcfda50a21a54968b330f83fcf927554\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Boyack, sorry. Apologies\u2014was made by Rachel Boyack.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u00223553603458264ed893f0525f1e9d1e2b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223553603458264ed893f0525f1e9d1e2b\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate the opportunity to take a call on this important issue for the people of Dunedin but also for the people of the South Island and for the people of New Zealand in terms of the investment that we need in our health infrastructure. As the MP for Nelson, I stand in solidarity with the people of Dunedin, who deserve a decent hospital that is going to serve their region and their community for decades to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EWhat concerns me greatly from the Minister\u2019s announcement today is that they are trying to use my community of Nelson as an excuse to not build the facilities that are needed in Dunedin, and yet the Minister has already made an announcement about an announcement to downgrade the rebuild of Nelson Hospital. Nelson has one of New Zealand\u2019s most ageing and growing populations. It will be the biggest project of our generation. Labour announced the plan last year, we gave the first round of money, and the enabling work had been started, and yet the Minister had a plan to announce the masterplan for the project when he came to Nelson recently, and that decision was scrapped, and he hasn\u2019t even taken a paper to Cabinet about Nelson Hospital. So don\u2019t you use\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f94e071b61b404695d4f10de7086b89\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Not \u201Cyou\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224311b501f0f045e7bf99f282c4a16d06\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t the National Party dare use my community as an excuse to downgrade the facilities for Dunedin or any other community in this country. Now, my father built hospitals in New Zealand and he built hospitals in the UK\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022723425ba07574cf5acfab60f7caeb6ce\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Shame he couldn\u2019t build that one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022433434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022436f256efc624779947e2933397d2fc0\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: He built them in your electorate, Suze Redmayne, on budget\u2014well, close to it. It has certainly served the people of Rangit\u012Bkei\u2014the Whanganui Hospital, which he built on time and on budget\u2014and my message to Simon Court is that public-private partnerships do not work. They cost more money. They take more time. They cut corners and they do not deliver for the people in the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022433434\u0022\u003ENow, I have a message for the National Party about health infrastructure. Look at this graph. This shows the story of which party\u2014now they\u2019re all quiet\u2014delivered on capital infrastructure for health. Look at the blue graph; look at the red graph, which is significantly more. Billions of dollars to invest in the likes of Dunedin, to invest in Whang\u0101rei\u2014which Shane Reti is also planning to pull down again\u2014and billions of dollars of investment from Labour in health infrastructure. How much did the Government put into Budget 2024? They put in $100 million\u2014literally nothing. Where is the money that is going to be needed to build these projects? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223923ca7a6a9542748ec630d89506db2b\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s gone to landlords. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c0c2ab4d2e4de7892a351862055c73\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s gone to landlords; it\u2019s gone to tobacco companies. Now, I might sound angry, and I\u2019m probably the angriest I\u2019ve ever been in this House, but I am bloody proud to be a member of a Labour Party that has a history in this country of building infrastructure, building hospitals, and investing properly in public health and saying that public health facilities for the people of New Zealand who can\u2019t afford things like private insurance need to be top quality, and they do cost money. To pretend somehow that you can be a National Party, when Nicola Willis was advising John Key and Bill English, and she\u2019s now following the same playbook\u2014Nicola Willis was a staff member during the time of these little tiny blue graphs with no money, and now she\u2019s the finance Minister who has only put $100 million in capital health infrastructure in this Budget. She has also shortchanged the entire health system by $1.4 billion for operational costs in that health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003ESo, yes, I\u2019m angry, because public health and the delivery of public health services to New Zealand is a fundamental. It is a critical, essential service for the people who desperately need those services. In my community of Nelson, I was inundated by people last week at the Home and Garden Show who are incredibly angry that the plan agreed by Labour\u2014which was the clinically preferred option, not the best option for builders, not the best option for Cabinet, but the best option according to the medical professionals. We should be building hospitals that the medical professionals say are the best for patients, because they are the experts, and this Government is failing to listen to them. I stand here in solidarity as a Nelson MP because every single community in this country, in Aotearoa, deserves a decent public hospital. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002215ff5745b4214b969b742f82cdc04ac8\u0022\u003EBuilding (Overseas Building Products, Standards, and Certification Schemes) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f8d862c7ee924e85b00265680995ab60\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u0022b91ce2fec0d449c5a331dc5b1e6123f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b91ce2fec0d449c5a331dc5b1e6123f6\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have great pleasure to present a legislative statement on the Building (Overseas Building Products, Standards, and Certification Schemes) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227676b615c654f059a22ed0f7a0b7db3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282dde33dc50b4716862914fbfc1decd1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I move, That the Building (Overseas Building Products, Standards, and Certification Schemes) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Transport and Infrastructure Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIt costs too much to build a home or other building in this country. There is a massive opportunity cost associated with the huge rise in construction costs\u2014since 2019 alone, an increase of some 40\u00A0percent. Of course, over the years, the inexorable rise of construction costs has meant a huge opportunity cost in terms of the same number of buildings, be it residential housing or other, that could have been provided for the same investment of public or private nature. It\u2019s crucially important that we turn our minds to the way that we can actually reduce the cost of construction in this country. Where do the costs lie? A certain amount of cost is associated, of course, with the people doing the building. The labour cost: it\u2019s appropriate that people get paid well; it\u2019s skilled work\u2014that\u2019s not the right place to try to screw down prices in construction. So what are we left with? Processes. Processes are important because cost is associated with delay, particularly in a higher interest rate environment. We\u2019re doing a number of things in terms of processes to speed up the building consent system and make it much more certain and consistent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EToday, we\u2019re turning our minds to the subject of products, and more particularly the way that we can actually achieve some gains in terms of affordability for that 25\u00A0percent or so of the cost of a building that is associated with the products themselves. This will have a helpful benefit for the consumer, the end user of the homes and other buildings, of course, which is every New Zealander. We all live, work, and play in the built environment. It will improve competition, which goes to fairness in terms of those who would provide products both here and overseas. I emphasise those here too, because being able to measure New Zealand products against overseas standards will be helpful from the perspective of those who have innovative products in New Zealand that they\u2019re currently finding difficult to break through established markets, and also from the perspective of innovation. Of course, if we want to have an innovative building environment where we have the best possible products that achieve the best possible results in terms of sustainability, in terms of safety, in terms of quality, and in terms of consumer choice, then, of course, for that reason too, we want to have enough different products available to the consumer and to the builder to maximise our potential in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EJust going back briefly to the subject of fairness and competition, I note that the Commerce Commission report of 2022 highlighted very particularly the fact that we have an uncompetitive sector taken as a whole. I acknowledge that, within the building supply area, we have different degrees of competitiveness associated with different product types. Nevertheless, the overall picture is very clearly that there is a lack of competition. And you don\u2019t need to take my word for it. As I say, the finding of the Commerce Commission was very clear in that regard, but certainly that is also the anecdotal evidence of very many people that I speak to who are used to building in this country with a limited range of products at a commensurately high price. Of course, we know that a competitive market relies on a degree of competition such that those who provide the supplies need to be mindful that if they don\u2019t do that in the best and most efficient way and at the most affordable price from the perspective of what it takes to produce and noting the value provided to the consumer, then of course all will lose out. Of course, that\u2019s been the experience for many years now, including, as I say, most particularly since 2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe way that we are going to improve competition through this legislation is set out in the legislative statement\u2014there\u2019s some detail there. I don\u2019t intend to take the time of the House to spell that out in a way that\u2019s unnecessary, given that we now have access to this legislative statement. Suffice to say that there are three different mechanisms, but they all revolve around the idea that if we use standards that currently exist in overseas jurisdictions that are of equal or higher standard by way of quality and their physical properties\u2014their ability to be strong enough and to be safe enough for use\u2014and if we adopt those standards, as I say, that are of equal or higher level of those in New Zealand as measured by overseas jurisdictions, then we can use those with relative safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENow, I say \u201Crelative safety\u201D because there are some qualifications. We do need to think about the way that the products are installed. There will still be a role for a building consent authority to play some sort of oversight role as far as they\u2019re concerned. Of course, it\u2019s also important that the jurisdictions whose standards and products we\u2019re using are the appropriate ones. Roughly speaking, that means we need credible and comparable jurisdictions\u2014credible ones being those nations and States that have good building standards. And some places in the world, frankly, have better building standards, I would say, than those in this country, but others have worse, and we need to choose carefully in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EWe also need to think about comparable jurisdictions whereby the physical conditions that dictate the performance of standards must be comparable in the relevant respects to those in New Zealand. Of course, we\u2019re a coastal nation so there\u2019ll be factors around the ability of New Zealand building products to withstand wind and sea spray. We are a somewhat sunny country\u2014some cities more sunny than others, but certainly the UV content\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aa66c358379470d8e7a04187cfb8568\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Dunedin\u2019s not feeling sunny at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225be3e8da99434615b88aa803414e9356\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Oh. I don\u2019t wish to indulge in the metaphors that the member from down South would have us go down. Suffice to say, different conditions, including climatically, exist across the country. It\u2019s appropriate to think about other places in the world that we can rightly compare ourselves with and sort of be safe and make good decisions in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003ENow, these decisions at a very particular, detailed level will be made and put forward in regulations because that won\u2019t require the legislation to be passed in this House on each occasion that we add a particular jurisdiction or a particular standard or a particular set of products. We can actually say that that process can be an ongoing one. We can start with the lowest hanging fruit first. We can do the least risky business first. We can get those relatively easy gains in terms of cost, affordability, innovation, and so on. But, for now, we need a legislative framework that actually enables that. That\u2019s the purpose of the bill\u2014that\u2019s what we\u2019re here doing today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI do just want to touch on the fact that this legislation intersects with a number of different other projects of reform within the building and construction space. One of those relates to the fact of the 67 different building consent authorities, mostly councils but of course also Consentium, which does bespoke work for K\u0101inga Ora. Each of those at the moment is tasked with understanding and assessing the risk associated with different building products, and that\u2019s a great burden for them. It\u2019s onerous in terms of their resources. It\u2019s also a matter of liability that they could face up to 100 percent of the cost of defective products or materials, so of course there\u2019s a huge resource implication and, frankly, a risk for their respective ratepayers associated with that. The other mechanism is through CodeMark, an organisation that has the ability to certify for use in a way that building consent authorities can rely on. We know that that is a process that is subject to a lot of volume in a way that we think we can cut through, again by relying on those comparable and credible overseas jurisdictions. That\u2019s the philosophy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAs I say, the detail sits within the legislative statement, and I will just also link briefly to our work around minor variations and minor customisations. This is a mechanism that did exist previously, and I do want to acknowledge that, as the mechanism for making sense of the MultiProof scheme. The MultiProof scheme is underused\u2014that\u2019s where we\u2019ve got a single design that\u2019s been consented that can be reused over and over again, so it\u2019s an exercise in standardisation to get the economy of scale, and so on. But that system is underutilised and also there\u2019s a lot of additional burden, again, on the building consent authorities, and of course the builders associated with making minor changes; for example, swapping like for like products. It\u2019s clunky and that needs to be refined. We\u2019re doing that work and that will help unlock the gains that we\u2019re achieving in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll conclude my remarks by saying that I wish the select committee that will be considering the legislation all the best. No doubt they\u2019ll hear a lot of detail that will be helpful. I\u2019m certainly very happy to contemplate any suggestions that they might make for change. I expect that some members of the public and those who are professionals within the building sector might have particular examples or suggestions of products or jurisdictions that they would commend or otherwise. It\u2019s really within the remit of this bill to set up the architecture as a whole, if you\u2019ll excuse the expression, that will enable that detailed work to go on. That detailed work is going on already. We are walking and chewing gum, we\u2019re getting it done, we\u2019re trying to reform the system so that we have greater competition, better choice for the consumer, and of course more affordable homes and other buildings in this country. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcaa57e355274a4dbeeba0c9d3d6447e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcaa57e355274a4dbeeba0c9d3d6447e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022aff225a59f174d52a3d984c76905c895\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aff225a59f174d52a3d984c76905c895\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Labour supports this bill because it builds on Labour\u2019s work to make building products cheaper and the market more competitive, which started with the Commerce Commission\u2019s report, the first report of its kind under its market study framework into building and construction products and the sector at large. It found that our building sector in New Zealand isn\u2019t working as it should, that it\u2019s not as competitive as it could be, and that consumers are ultimately paying too much, and that\u2019s leading to higher costs in things like housing, which are incredibly important to this Parliament and to the people of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is a good move. There will be a few things in my speech which I will outline as concerns of the Labour Party, and we\u2019ll be watching very closely as this bill progresses. There are things that we will need to make sure, as a Parliament, we are comfortable with so that we do not create a system that provides less clarity for the various different system users within the system already, who rely on Government and local government buy-in to the building products that are used, so that things can be agreed to swiftly and that consents do not take too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll first start with the importance of competition here. Ultimately, this bill does deal with the finding of the Commerce Commission\u2019s report that said that there was not enough competition and that it was not easy enough for not only different building products to be recognised within the system as it is but also for those smaller players in the market who are importing new and innovative products from overseas to grow their market share. It\u2019s the second part that I\u2019m particularly interested in, because there\u2019s not legislative change here that deals with that. The posture of Government and the posture of local governments to that will be important for the ability of smaller businesses to compete with the big guys and to be able to get their products out there and increase the industry knowledge about products which are equivalent and of a high standard. Some of this will help that, but it really will be bigger change that\u2019s required of the industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI think breaking the monopoly on some products has been the focus of the previous Government, and that will need to be something which this Government keeps the pressure on. A thing like plasterboard, which resulted in a crisis alongside restrictions of what could be brought into New Zealand during the COVID period, was something that took up a lot of Parliament\u2019s time and was important for the Government of the day to be\u00A0able to deal with, because it created real issues in a building sector that at that time was really hot. It was building lots of houses that really needed access to good quality products at a cheap price for consumers to be able to buy. We need to keep our eye on that and\u00A0make sure that the Commerce Commission is also tooled up to be able to deal with those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe support the measures in this bill that remove barriers to building products entering the New Zealand market. That\u2019s why, as it progresses, we\u2019ll be looking forward to the advice on how it actually does this, because as the regulatory impact statement suggests, there are a number of these changes which were already afoot\u2014they were already in the system in some way\u2014but it\u2019s about industry changing and the behaviour and the knowledge of industry participants to actually use those provisions which will make all the difference here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll now turn to the second part of my speech, which is about the concerns that we have, and highlight them for submitters to the committee, because we are really interested in engaging with people who are experts in the field around what our concerns are with regulatory change in this area. The first is particularly about plasterboard. We\u2019re cautious about product substitutions for plasterboard being approved in groups, which this legislation would allow, because they\u2019re used in structurally different ways in other jurisdictions. The way that New Zealand builders use plasterboard products is different from their counterparts in, say, the UK, so we want to make sure that the substitutions and the equivalency there recognises New Zealand\u2019s particular context in the way that our building sector works. It may be that the rules in other countries are not appropriate to apply here, so we need some assurance about the way that those equivalencies are going to be judged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003ESecond, building consent authorities are going to be responsible for more under the new regime, which will add to their time and process costs for those consents. The Government will essentially be requiring consent authorities to approve the building project overall, and not only that the product is robust and of high quality but also that it\u2019s going to be used in a way that\u2019s appropriate. With local government carrying more of a burden in ensuring that the end product is suitable, we want to make sure that the resources are there to do this, that the councils are ready to go when this legislation is enacted, and that the Government is working really closely to provide the kind of policy advice that will require local government to change, because it is a system-wide view that we need to take here. That\u2019s one of the advantages of New Zealand\u2019s building system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022 data-id=\u002296d5b61ca06a48a3b790d2ab10297a60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296d5b61ca06a48a3b790d2ab10297a60\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. The Green Party is supporting this bill. I note that the work on this did begin under the last Government, and I think that what is contained in this bill has the potential to be hugely beneficial. But, like the previous speaker, Arena Williams, said, it also depends on how it is implemented, so I will be very interested during the select committee process on the implementation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWhen I first moved to Aotearoa New Zealand, I suppose one of the things that motivated me to get involved in politics was seeing that we could do so much better with our buildings, and our transport system and urban planning as well, because, actually, there are many other countries in the world that are doing so much better. They get better outcomes for people, better outcomes for health, and better outcomes for the environment and the climate. And it also makes economic sense to do that. This is like an example where\u2014you know, meeting the founder of Passive House Institute in New Zealand, who came from Germany, who was part of the passive house movement, which led to science-based standards that deliver warm, dry, comfortable, and extremely energy-efficient buildings. Of course, in many parts of Germany now, and in the UK and many other parts of Europe, that standard is the minimum; it\u2019s required.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EOne aspect of that is how we approve building products. What people who worked in the industry, including my friends who are builders or who work as building physicists, were telling me is that it was more expensive and difficult to get these high-quality products that were leading to better environmental and energy-efficiency outcomes in New Zealand because of the process for approving those products. It does actually just make sense to recognise overseas standards and standard certification schemes when those countries have higher standards and better outcomes than Aotearoa New Zealand currently does. Now, the risk is that we approve products that are not of a higher standard, that are not going to get better outcomes, so it really does come down to which countries we\u2019re looking at and whether or not they\u2019re getting better outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EWe do have to recognise that New Zealand\u2019s supply chain has been dominated by a few major companies and, essentially, that oligopoly\u2014you know, it is an oligopoly\u2014has allowed some companies to make excessive profits on products that, frankly, are not the best. It really makes sense to ensure that we\u2019re allowing better products in and that we\u2019re not duplicating a lot of work that\u2019s already been done by places, especially when they have similar climates to us\u2014you know, I look at British Columbia, or parts of the UK might have quite similar weather issues, weathertightness issues, wind. We have incredibly high levels of wind and dampness and rain, and that can contribute to mouldy homes and the leaky-home crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003ELook, I\u2019m a firm believer in having a system that gets us the best outcomes and there\u2019s so many opportunities to do better, but one of the ways we do better is through this type of work, which, as I said, was started by the previous Government, and it looks like it will have cross-party support. I hope that at the select committee we can ensure that we\u2019re doing our best to ensure that the products that we\u2019re encouraging and enabling actually deliver the outcomes we need in terms of reducing building waste and taking action on climate. I\u2019m concerned that the Government has pretty much stopped the work on the Building for Climate Change initiative, which is evidence-based and very much looking to overseas countries and how they\u2019ve achieved it; improvements to our Building Code which are desperately, desperately needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258f935f1-6646-40ab-9d99-17029396850c\u0022\u003EThe other side of how Government enables this is simply through procurement. The cancellation of the K\u0101inga Ora builds is going to be a major setback to improving standards and quality of builds in New Zealand. It makes sense, if Government has a large house building programme, that it lifts the standards of the supply chain by getting the best outcomes for the people living in those buildings. And it makes economic sense. It\u2019s less money spent on hospital bills, it\u2019s more productivity, it\u2019s lower power bills for people. If the Government can lead by example through procurement, then, over time, we can step our Building Code up. But, of course, in order to get those more efficient buildings, we need to allow and enable the quality products that are available overseas, so that we\u2019re not simply letting Fletcher or whoever else dominate the market and make excessive profits on products that, frankly, are not the best for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u00224a32a70581e9431ca772efdfbf94b728\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a32a70581e9431ca772efdfbf94b728\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and speak on behalf of this bill and on behalf of the ACT Party. Look, we are in a situation in New Zealand where Kiwis are increasingly dissatisfied with what they\u2019re getting out of their building industry, and I don\u2019t actually blame them. Just this afternoon, I attended the New Zealand Chinese Building Industry Association\u2019s report launch, hosted by my colleague Nancy Lu and attended by Minister Penk, in which we were presented with a word cloud. Now, the biggest word in this word cloud is \u201Cexpensive\u201D. I think that is an apt description of building in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EIt is not a surprise to me at all that New Zealanders have had enough. Many are deciding to go overseas. Many are struggling to start families, get on the housing market, and live where they want to live and how they would like to live. Housing costs in New Zealand are unacceptable. We have heard this from the community. During the campaign, ACT went about with a building material equivalency register policy. I\u2019m glad to see that such a policy has been adopted into this bill, because we need to get prices down in New Zealand when it comes to building a house. Construction is 20 percent of the jobs in New Zealand. Building is challenging, it\u2019s often difficult, it\u2019s bespoke, and it takes a great deal of skill, but when you can put people with skills and materials together, that is how you get a successful building industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003ENow, that is what this bill is going to achieve. We will be recognising overseas standards and certification schemes from trusted jurisdictions overseas\u2014places with seismic issues that have assessed these issues, places with weathertightness issues, places where it rains a heck of a lot more, places where it\u2019s hotter, places where it\u2019s colder, places that are built in environments that are similar and more extreme. We need to get competition into our building supply market, but it is not a monopoly, as a previous speaker has spoken about, because of some oligopoly; it is a situation in which councils make it so hard to achieve standards in New Zealand for new products to enter the market that it is not a surprise that our cost of building is so high. Materials are far, far too expensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EI myself, as a licensed building practitioner, have attempted to have minor changes happen on plans between one set of cladding plaster to another set. Now, it struck me down when the council said, \u201COh, we can\u2019t recognise that.\u201D, even though the details\u2014and my fellow tradies out there know what I\u2019m talking about. When the details are completely alike but the product name is different, well, we have to go through a whole rigmarole to try and get that changed. Delays, costs, shortage of material\u2014this is why housing is so expensive in New Zealand. This bill will streamline the citing of international standards that can be used in acceptable solutions and verification methods. To the members of the House who haven\u2019t swung a hammer in the last, well, ever\u2014especially on the other side\u2014I can tell you that these acceptable solutions and verification methods are how we get things approved in New Zealand, and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a22d3712d5ff47258db549e46e308929\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: These hands; a hammer\u2014a hammer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022155ce7d7c61a49518b8c7502e8014c26\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I see there\u2019s some offence being taken, I am very sorry for anybody who\u2019s done it on a DIY basis, but a DIY does not a builder make. What we have got in New Zealand is a situation where we have a scheme to get things approved to the Building Code, and we are going to make it a lot easier for overseas products to be recognised in New Zealand, to get on sites so that the skilled tradies and Kiwis who fill out our building industry can get the products that they need to lower the price of building in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EThe built environment is an important environment in New Zealand. It is a place where farmers go to milk their cows. It\u2019s a place where industry goes to manufacture. It\u2019s a place where New Zealanders go to learn and live and enjoy themselves. The backbone of New Zealand has got many claims to its fame. It could be the agricultural sector, it could be many different sectors, it could be climbing Mt Everest\u2014it could be many things\u2014but I say to you, Madam Speaker, and to this House, that the built environment is the backbone of New Zealand. It is the place where we need to have some certainty in our lives. This bill will be providing just that by giving New Zealanders a chance to build houses affordably; to build places to live and thrive affordably. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef9d0eac03c546ad9a0e77cddc11108d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef9d0eac03c546ad9a0e77cddc11108d\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, I am delighted to rise to support this bill. We all know that the cost of building in New Zealand is far, far too high, and we also know that we need far more housing, but I think we\u2019re a little discordant about that, because sometimes we hear people say that we\u2019re investing too much in bricks and mortar and yet we need more housing\u2014and I don\u2019t quite get that\u2014and then there are policy changes that some people would propose that actually make investing in housing for homes for people even more expensive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EThere was a report earlier this week which said that the gap between building new and existing housing is as big as it\u2019s ever been, possibly bigger than it\u2019s ever been. This is because the cost of building has gone up and up and up 30 or 40 percent over the last, what, four or five years at most, and the value of existing housing has, effectively, flatlined, and certainly come down in recent years. What that means is it becomes less and less attractive to build the homes that we need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ELook, there is no silver bullet here, but this bill is part of the answer, and there\u2019s great work being done by the Minister in introducing it. We need regulatory changes\u2014a little bit\u2019s been talked about there. We need things like the granny flats initiative that\u2019s being taken. We also need new products, and already Minister Penk has been working on that. This is about allowing new products into our market as part of the answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EUltimately, what we have to do, regardless of anything else we might do, is we have to get the actual cost of building new homes, of building construction, down. Building materials in this country are extraordinarily pricey, I think we all recognise. I mean, the cost of timber here is, I think, what, 30 percent more? Something like that\u201430 percent more than the cost across the Tasman. That is a real handbrake. We were all aware of that during COVID, of the crisis we had around being able to find Gib, and that, of course, actually stalled a lot of building projects. The cost was astronomical. It was like you had to put your name down to get a piece of Gib board, because we couldn\u2019t find the darned stuff. The Commerce Commission, in the introduction to this bill, has said that we have a lack of competition in our building supply market, so this bill is all about bringing in more competition. It\u2019s about the arrangements to be able to allow us to get building products that, currently, we can\u2019t get\u2014products produced overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EOne of the things we have in this country is we have this terrible penchant for reinventing everywhere. We\u2019ve got to say, \u201CWell, it works that way in Australia or in the United Kingdom or in Europe or in the United States,\u201D\u2014or wherever it might be\u2014\u201Cbut we\u2019ve got to reinvent that wheel just to check that it works properly here.\u201D Well, this bill is about saying, actually, let\u2019s grow up a little bit. Let\u2019s be able to give the Minister, give the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, the power to be able to say that that regime, that family of products, is a good regime, a good family of products, and we are going to allow those products into New Zealand to be able to be used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI was shown, the other day, a Chinese building product. This is one where these were prefabricated homes. They came two per container. You bring them in, and you\u2019re actually able to sort of extend them, put them up there. All the kitchen material was there; all the bathroom fittings were there. They could do that, and I think it was 36 square metres for $49,000\u2014really, really inexpensive. The people who are wanting to bring these in looked at the cost of doing that in New Zealand, and it was about $90,000-something without all the fit-out. That is an example of the relative cost of being able to do this. The problem is that none of our councils will consent them. Why? Because they haven\u2019t seen the product. We have to get ourselves a regime which asks how we can be able to bring in those products if they\u2019re good products\u2014and we think they\u2019re good products\u2014and house New Zealand families much, much cheaper than is currently the case. Like my colleague Cam Luxton, I also went to the presentation earlier today from the New Zealand - China building construction sector, and I think there were some really great messages from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EJust to finish off with one of the other things, which I don\u2019t think has been mentioned by any of the previous speakers\u2014and it\u2019s an important part of this bill. With my local authority background, I know that local authorities are very, very risk-averse, because if they end up being the last person standing when something goes wrong, the cost is astronomical. Part of this bill is about, essentially, the Crown saying to you that if you use in good faith a product which the Crown has said is a product which should be able to be used, you won\u2019t be liable for that, and I think that\u2019s a very, very important message.  I look forward to the submissions and I look forward to the very good Transport and Infrastructure Committee considering this bill. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u002260fa9e329f1b43dbade29f12aaa3e669\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260fa9e329f1b43dbade29f12aaa3e669\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s with great pleasure I rise to speak on this bill. There were some great comments by a number of speakers before this. We all understand the cost of building in New Zealand has got far too expensive. It\u2019s really brought to sharp focus when you drive around an electorate like mine in Northland where we have real housing challenges in the North.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003EBeing able to actually build affordable homes, which is what this Government is very much focused on\u2014and this is part of the journey that our Government is taking us on\u2014is so important, particularly for a place like Northland, where we have so many people living in substandard housing. Being able to go to the market and say, \u201CYes, we can get products cheaper.\u201D\u2014I mean, the fact that we\u2019ve had a 41 percent increase in construction costs since 2019 is disgraceful. It\u2019s just very, very frustrating. We have to bring more competition into this process. Also, when you think about it, the cost of building in New Zealand is currently close to around about 50 percent more expensive than trying to build a standalone house in Australia. You wonder why our young people are saying, \u201CNo, stuff this, we\u2019re off to Aussie.\u201D Well, this is a part of the puzzle to actually lead us to a more affordable housing market, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u00222142ea9539f64c3e9a877d547994ab2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222142ea9539f64c3e9a877d547994ab2f\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. As was noted earlier, the Labour Party supports this bill. The approach that we are taking when it comes to housing and building and construction is that we intend and genuinely hope to be able to be as constructive as possible, for two reasons. One, it is vitally important that we finally get on top of the housing shortage in this country. It cannot drag on. There have been genuine attempts to address it. There have been less than genuine attempts, and this wax and wane carry-on can\u2019t continue, so we as a party have committed to be constructive on the issue. Where there is something that we agree on, we will say so, and where there is something that is in the right direction, there or thereabouts, could do with some improvements, we\u2019ll approach the debate in that manner. Then when we genuinely, fundamentally disagree on something and we say so, hopefully people will see it in that vein, that it is not politicking, that we just don\u2019t agree, because we have taken the opportunity to be constructive elsewhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EToday is a day where we can be constructive. We have no opposition to this and it\u2019s good\u2014it\u2019s good. It builds on what was started under the last Government. I think when you consider the uncertainty that surrounds the infrastructure sector and the construction sector at the moment, the pleas from local government and from those two sectors for some level of certainty and some level of bipartisan approach, it\u2019s important that both sides of the House recognise that, as was referred to in the previous speech, this is a journey. This builds on stuff we\u2019ve done, and when we were in Government, we built on some stuff that the previous Government had done. That\u2019s how it should work. Part of that is actually acknowledging it, not saying, \u201CIsn\u2019t it great that we\u2019ve got a bill here? But while I say that, I\u2019m going to have just a little cheap shot at those guys because I can, and that\u2019s what we normally do.\u201D Just forget that. This is a good approach to this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be honest\u2014and, in fairness, they haven\u2019t said this, but we must acknowledge it\u2014it\u2019s not a silver bullet, because there\u2019s no such thing as a silver bullet when it comes to addressing the housing crisis. We\u2019ve been very critical of what the Government is doing around social housing. We believe that they\u2019re taking the wrong approach. When it comes to freeing up land for building, that\u2019s good\u2014that\u2019s really good\u2014but we also recognise that many councils don\u2019t have the funding to be able to put the infrastructure in beforehand, and so that is one where we would like to see some tweaks. We\u2019d like the assistance of funding to come at the start of the process so we can get some infrastructure put in at the start, and that\u2019ll mean that land will be able to be developed, rather than at the end, because some councils can\u2019t bridge that gap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to this, this does make sense, and many of the points that have been raised by previous speakers across the House\u2014let\u2019s be honest; so far it has been across the House\u2014are all valid. There are some concerns. Of course there will be, because we\u2019re trying something different, but you\u2019ve got to give it a go\u2014you\u2019ve got to give it a go. We\u2019ve all heard too many stories where people who have saved up a lot of money to buy a home or build a home have been frustrated by the cost, have been frustrated by the processes of councils, and the inconsistencies across the councils. Basically, if you look at the number of local bodies that we have in this country, it has the potential to be that many different approaches when it comes to getting a consent for building a house, and that\u2019s madness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt would be remiss of me not to point out that I think we missed an opportunity by not taking seriously the recommendations that came from the review into the future of local government. Sure, you\u2019re never going to agree to all the recommendations. There was some stuff in there that I didn\u2019t agree with, but there was some stuff that would have actually dealt with that inconsistent approach across the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EWe need it easy. It shouldn\u2019t be the case that in the lower North Island, if you were a contractor and you were operating across the lower North Island, you could potentially be looking at eight, nine, 10 different ways of doing things. I mean, that\u2019s just madness. That should have been dealt with, and I hope the Government looks at that again, but this here will actually address that to some degree. Some councils were so prescriptive in the type of material that they were using that it was actually cutting out those options and so we were dealing with that, and this adds to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s a positive. I\u2019m confident that it will make a difference. There\u2019s a lot to do and I hope that the Government Ministers are genuine in their cause for bipartisanship, because in this area, so are we.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec1992e50ae44eef94641ecec3901df0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec1992e50ae44eef94641ecec3901df0\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Competition for the supply of building products in New Zealand is not working as well as it could be. New Zealand is a small trading nation. Removing barriers to high-quality and innovative products entering the New Zealand market could increase consumer choice, increase competition, and provide greater security against supply disruptions. Amending this bill will provide for the Minister for Building and Construction, by notice, recognising overseas standards or standards certification schemes. We have a massive housing crisis in this country, and this bill is going to enable that change and for us to deliver on providing more houses in the country and bring in overseas products that we know meet our standards. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022a47d14d52c864ed3bf27179d20af7f0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a47d14d52c864ed3bf27179d20af7f0d\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, for taking my call on this Building (Overseas Building Products, Standards, and Certification Schemes) Amendment Bill. Now, I\u2019m just going to say some similar things, actually, that we\u2019ve heard from colleagues across the House, as the Hon Kieran McAnulty just pointed out. Of course, one of the first things is, like my colleague Arena Williams pointed out, it\u2019s important to acknowledge the Commerce Commission report that led to some of this work. Like everybody else who has spoken, I agree that there is a problem in New Zealand with not enough building materials being available and then costing too much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, I just want to talk briefly on the bill and note that the Minister, in his contribution, said\u2014he didn\u2019t explain which ones were which\u2014that some countries are better than others in terms of building standards. The reference, I think, was that some buildings have higher building standards than New Zealand and excellent building products, and some are not quite so good. Why this is relevant is that a lot of this bill hinges on the word \u201Csimilar\u201D, and that is because the \u201Coverseas standards organisation\u201D, as defined, means an overseas organisation with functions similar to the standards organisation. I have no bones to pick with the use of the word \u201Csimilar\u201D, but I hope that the select committee, when they\u2019re looking at this, will reflect on, and ask questions about, what sort of overseas standards organisations are similar to New Zealand and, even, which ones are not similar to New Zealand, given what the Minister said about some countries having different standards from others. I don\u2019t disagree with that at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAlso, I would like to note that the previous Government was doing the building accord and the industry transformation plan. I would say to the Government, when they are looking at the price of buildings and how to build in more efficient ways, that they go back to these pieces of work. They\u2019re good pieces of work and were going to improve New Zealand\u2019s economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EAlso, like the point that our colleague the Hon Julie Anne Genter made about the building for climate work that was going on and also work that can go on in encouraging people not to have a whole lot of construction waste\u2014we know that by scale, by the size of it, construction waste is quite large, obviously. We have an awful lot of construction waste in New Zealand, and if you have the right incentives, you really don\u2019t need to have that much waste, and you can save a whole lot of money on disposal of the waste as well. I\u2019d really encourage the Government to continue with that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EOf course, looking at the Building Code, we have an interesting building code in New Zealand, and I know the New Zealand Green Building Council has been talking for some time, for many years, about how that could be improved to really prioritise products that are going to last for a long time and insulate people well, but also in health and ventilation\u2014another important thing when building.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2019s contribution when she was talking about the procurement of Government builds. Of course, if we\u2019re trying to change the system, if we\u2019re trying to enable new innovative products that are going to do better for us both economically and environmentally, Government can be leading the charge on that. I know that Minister Mark Patterson is very committed to wool and the provision of wool in Government buildings, and that that sort of attitude can be taken to other building products as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EGoing back to New Zealand - made products, I just note that we think it\u2019s important\u2014and it\u2019s important that the select committee looks at this\u2014that New Zealand companies that are being innovative aren\u2019t cut out of the market. We know that Hamilton has the start-up saveBOARD, made from recycled waste, and that this is a recognised plasterboard substitution in our domestic market. We can see\u2014if we go out of the back door of this building and look at that building site\u2014that there is a whole lot of saveBOARD up there at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ESo, again, I encourage the Government and members of the select committee who\u2019ll be looking at this bill to make sure that innovation isn\u2019t stifled and to do better in that regard generally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7c44737c9b3401cbc43b03591ebd6fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7c44737c9b3401cbc43b03591ebd6fb\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E \u8C22\u8C22\u4F60\uFF0C\u8BAE\u957F\u5148\u751F.We clearly have a problem in New Zealand. As the Rt Hon Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said a bit earlier this year, it is currently 50 percent more expensive to build a standalone home in New Zealand than in Australia. Also, our building and construction Minister, the Hon Chris Penk, has said the cost of building in New Zealand had gone up by 41 percent since 2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EAlso thanks to the New Zealand Chinese Building Industry Association, \u65B0\u897F\u5170\u534E\u4EBA\u5EFA\u7B51\u4E1A\u534F\u4F1A,who not only commissioned the research into this industry and sector in New Zealand but is also working with officials, departments, and also with the Government by commissioning and highlighting the findings that they have in this report\u2014and actually brought to our attention in Parliament today that they have done the word cloud, like many of my colleagues have attended today, which clearly showed the concerns in the sector: \u201Cexpensive\u201D, \u201Chard\u201D, \u201Cstruggling\u201D, \u201Cunsure\u201D, \u201Cdelays\u201D, \u201Cslow\u201D, \u201Ccost\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EClearly, the problem has been identified by the Government but also by the sector, so we are working towards solving the problem, finding better solutions. I invite Kiwis to submit in the select committee process and I look forward to the cross-party collaboration and making real progress in this sector, and I commend this bill to the House. \u8C22\u8C22.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224d4dae97-e385-42a3-9791-5440c8cc9b3c\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00229e9ff32449004f29a2771aa9af0623d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e9ff32449004f29a2771aa9af0623d6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Building (Overseas Building Products, Standards, and Certification Schemes) Amendment Bill be considered by the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226bb65a73bf65471eb97211ae57d409f0\u0022\u003EArms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002267e4dc879a964a9eb1bacad9dbcf8881\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00229536def633f9458c9fc11bfd58092f9f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229536def633f9458c9fc11bfd58092f9f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226915d1de76a4428fb5fd5f55c991ac08\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efded0e0cac340d0886373761f2d72e9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be\u00A0reported to the House by four months and one day after the bill has received its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to be in the House today speaking about this bill. This bill forms phase two of the Government\u2019s four-phased approach to firearms reform. Shooting clubs and ranges play an important public safety role in our communities. They are places for people to learn how to operate and handle firearms safely, as well as to practise and to compete.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EAmendments made to the Arms Act 1983 in 2020 changed the way that clubs and ranges were regulated. Clubs are now required to be approved and ranges certified. These new requirements came at an increased cost and time commitment for operators, many of whom are volunteers. Some of these changes have been positive, but others have gone way beyond what is necessary for public safety and we are now at risk of losing safe venues for licence holders to use firearms safely due to overly burdensome regulatory requirements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis bill will simplify the regulation of pistol and non-pistol clubs and ranges, and ease the burden on operators without negatively impacting public safety outcomes. This bill amends Part 6 of the Act to improve how clubs and ranges are regulated. The changes will ease the burden on clubs and range operators while continuing to enhance public safety outcomes. The first amendment relates to pistol clubs and ranges. The bill maintains the current regulatory requirements, recognising the higher regulatory standards associated with pistols, but will streamline the annual reporting requirements. This change will avoid unnecessary duplication of administrative activities and reduce the time that operators spend on requirements that do not enhance public safety. The bill will also amend some regulatory requirements that apply to non-pistol clubs and ranges. This is to reduce the compliance burden on operators where there is no tangible benefit to public safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFirstly, the bill will introduce a streamlined enrolment system to replace the current approval and certification system for non-pistol clubs and ranges. These enrolment systems are designed to ensure that the regulator has the information necessary to ensure public safety, while reducing excessive costs for the operators and making compliance more straightforward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe second change is related to incorporation requirements. Currently, non-pistol clubs are required to be incorporated if they sell ammunition and firearms. The bill proposes that non-pistol clubs will not need to be incorporated if all ammunition sold on behalf of the club is used on the day of the sale and at the club range. They are not to be taken off the premises.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThe bill will also support the ability for clubs to establish and operate temporary non-pistol ranges to host club events, providing that the regulator is notified. This is particularly good news for clubs hosting large national, regional, or international competitions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFinally, the bill will provide certainty about when compliance inspections for both pistol and non-pistol clubs and ranges can occur. It will clarify the role of the regulator in encouraging compliance for non-pistol clubs, and the powers for monitoring and enforcement in relation to non-pistol ranges. These changes will ensure that clubs and ranges are not unduly burdened with compliance requirements while incentivising operators to maintain high safety standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EFurther amendments to requirements, agreed to by Cabinet earlier this year, will be made by Order in Council to the regulations once the bill is passed. For example, amendments will be made to the annual 12-event participation requirement for pistol endorsement holders. Once these regulations are in place, attendance at any organised shooting event in the host club\u2019s calendar will count towards these 12 annual shoots. Currently, only those undertaken at the pistol shooter\u2019s home club count, which was nonsensical considering pistol shooters regularly travel to compete.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIn addition, the bill contains provisions to reflect Cabinet\u2019s decision to transfer the administrative function for the Act from Police to the justice portfolio. To reflect this, the bill will provide me with regulation-making powers to recommend policy changes to Cabinet as we progress the reform. I will carry out public consultation in accordance with section 74(4) of the Act before seeking Cabinet\u2019s endorsement on any policy changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIt is important that we have firearm laws that improve public safety, are practical, and make compliance straightforward. These laws should also support clubs and ranges to continue to operate safe and controlled environments where people can learn about firearms, practise firearms safely, and compete. I look forward to hearing from New Zealanders across the country through the select committee process, and I hope everyone takes this opportunity to have their voices heard. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002205ee44ca29f54b74a492c79cfa74ae52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205ee44ca29f54b74a492c79cfa74ae52\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022491116dd030341bf919a0bbd9bdede8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022491116dd030341bf919a0bbd9bdede8b\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. On 15\u00A0March, a terrorist practised on a gun range in Dunedin. He didn\u2019t break any rules, and no one went to the police. At that stage in New Zealand\u2019s history, pistol clubs were lightly regulated, and non-pistol clubs were self-regulated. In the aftermath of his killing of 51 people, regulations for clubs and ranges were tightened up right across New Zealand. There was a consistent standard nationwide. This was to ensure public safety and to ensure the safety of those who used guns on ranges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Firearms Safety Authority had oversight of pistol and non-pistol ranges. What we do know is once they did get oversight, 267 safety improvement notices were issued to the pistol clubs for failing to meet safety standards in the past. This would be to do with ballistics. If they were shooting in areas where people could be horse riding or bike riding, they had to make improvements to change those ranges to make them safe. Let\u2019s remember that that is for the pistol ranges; the non-pistol are still under review. That work has not been done for the non-pistol ranges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThis crucial information that 267 improvement notices were issued by police did not make it into the Cabinet paper which made these decisions. Nicole McKee stated, and it\u2019s been published in the New Zealand Herald, that she did not provide that new Cabinet paper, and she said to Cabinet that there was nothing to indicate that there are any safety issues under the previous system, and she failed to include the information about the 267 improvement notices that have been issued. That vital information was missing from the Cabinet paper that made the decision to deregulate gun ranges in New Zealand, that we are now considering. That is a very serious concern for all New Zealanders and our police service, who are in line for dealing with this and mopping up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENicole McKee is unwinding all this, and the reason is that there is a risk, and the risk is that gun ranges could close, that this level of regulation might close gun ranges, and that\u2019s a real concern. The Ministry of Justice in the regulatory impact statement have been very clear in stating that this is an assumption. There is absolutely no information or no evidence to demonstrate that this is a realistic threat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe proposals in this legislation try to give the impression that there is regulatory oversight but they severely undermine the ability of New Zealand Police to regulate and monitor and enforce the safety at shooting clubs and ranges. There are no compliance tools of any kind, no penalty provisions for refusing access to inspect ranges. The public and law-abiding users of shooting ranges can have absolutely no confidence that the range in their neighbourhood is operating safely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe bill is also half the story as all the other work goes on in the regulations. There is a complete lack of detail about how the new enrolment system will work. It is assumed it will be spelt out in the technical regulations which we are yet to see. This takes us back to pre-2019, and, on top of this, there is a new requirement, a new pop-up rifle range that can be enrolled and certified if they hold only two events a year. The bill only states that police must be notified and gives police no follow-up powers of inspection or certification. The wild west is coming to a backyard near you, ladies and gentlemen. There is nothing in the bill to specify the format that police must be notified, and it is assumed that this detail is yet to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll conclude by talking about the consultation. The regulatory impact statement states that the consultation was rushed. It was skewed towards the firearms users with 91 percent of submissions coming from firearms groups. What other sector in New Zealand gets to write its own safety rules like this? It wouldn\u2019t happen in maritime or rail or any other recreational sport or area, and this is firearms we\u2019re talking about, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENinety-one percent of submissions came from the firearms community. There are 230,000 licence holders, which is around 4 percent of the population. The Minister responsible for all of this work is a member of the Wellington branch of the Deerstalkers Association, which makes you automatically a member of the Council of Licenced Firearms Owners. What we have is a member of a coalition of licensed firearm owners writing the rules and regulations for ranges in New Zealand that only cater to that firearms community. The safety of New Zealanders, the safety of our communities, is coming second. The gun lobby and gun mates are being put ahead of our communities and it\u2019s time we called it out loud and clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u00227e3f5faaa40e484f9275c370eb4e04d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e3f5faaa40e484f9275c370eb4e04d1\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill purports to support public safety outcomes by improving compliance with the Arms Act 1983. Firearm ownership is a privilege; it\u2019s not a right. As a firearm owner, I certainly do not support relaxing controls, and most other Kiwis do not support relaxing controls either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EThis bill, the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, will do the opposite to what it purports to do. Too often in this House, I get the feeling that I\u2019m in George Orwell\u2019s book 1984 because this bill is a typical example of double-think. To quote Orwell: \u201CDouble-think means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one\u2019s mind simultaneously and accepting both of them.\u201D \u201CWar is peace\u201D; \u201CFreedom is slavery\u201D; \u201CIgnorance is strength\u201D, and that really applies to this bill because this bill reduces regulation and inspection requirements for shooting clubs and ranges. Is that dangerous or good? We have to ask that question because the claim is that this is helpful and it\u2019s going to be good for communities that are suffering under too tight regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EIf I understand why anyone might think this is\u2014I want to understand why anyone might think this is\u2014a good thing, I think back to pre-1990. Firearms were, essentially, a tool for people who lived rurally to take care of pests, to go hunting; and those few city dwellers who liked to go out hunting. Mostly good, responsible people, but we\u2019re no longer there\u2014we\u2019re no longer in 1990 or the 1980s. I remember the Aramoana massacre on 13 November 1990: 13 people killed, including a local police officer. That killer was shot and was actually operated on by my father-in-law. It was a really difficult moral decision, I understand\u2014he didn\u2019t survive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s the danger? How about making it easy to sell ammunition in gun clubs and rifle ranges? Is that going to be a risk to anyone? Well, of course it is\u2014of course it is. You just need to think about how informal gun clubs are. Anyone who has been to a gun range\u2014anyone who has been to a gun range\u2014knows that there can be a degree of informality and relaxation. A good bloke\u2014or someone presenting as a good bloke\u2014might be handed or might be sold some ammunition even if they don\u2019t have a firearms licence. These are the risks of informality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EPerhaps we should be including, in this, bullet-proof backpacks for children if that\u2019s what we\u2019re going to do. If we\u2019re going to allow unincorporated gun clubs to sell ammunition, perhaps we should have bullet-proof backpacks for children. This is what this bill is putting on us. It is putting us in a really, really risky place, because what it does is take away oversight and controls in places where firearms are discharged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EWe know the Christchurch mosque gunman was able to practise in a very informal gun club\u2014that was near where I live, in the Bruce Rifle Club near Milton in Otago\u2014and what this legislation does is open us up to unnecessary risk. When regulations are strengthened, as they were after the Christchurch massacre, it was found that many gun clubs were non-compliant. Since then, police have issued 251 improvement notices. This is a good thing\u2014this makes sure that people are doing things correctly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m certainly not someone who thinks that we should take away the right to sight-in our rifles\u2014to make sure that we are taking care of our rifles\u2014but we need to do\u00A0so in a controlled environment; we need to do so in a respectful environment. We certainly need to do so in a way that provides safety and reassurance to the wider community that they are not going to come to harm because we are letting people who\u2014with bad intentions\u2014have access to firearms, have access to ammunition, and can train and practise to conduct massacres; just as we\u2019ve seen in Christchurch; just as we\u2019ve seen in Aramoana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022 data-id=\u002278811bc122db4e62b9580341cd1150a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278811bc122db4e62b9580341cd1150a0\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. As the chair of the Justice Committee, I\u2019m sure the whole committee looks forward to considering this bill when it comes through to us shortly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EThe bill is a pretty straightforward bill. It is aiming to improve the safety and compliance of firearms regulation on shooting clubs and shooting ranges. I think some of the rhetoric that we\u2019ve heard already in the first couple of speeches is going to be entirely unhelpful as we consider this bill over the next four months, and I would caution all members who are making contributions to be somewhat more considerate in their viewpoints and the allegations that are being made around here. The last thing we need is to heighten the debate on these issues with miscellaneous and somewhat outrageous accusations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003EAs the chair of the committee, I look forward to hearing the submissions on this bill. I would encourage, as I have mentioned previously, for all those who are out there listening, who are making submissions, to use the formal process, to use the parliamentary website so that we can process their submissions in a timely and orderly manner. I look forward to the debate on this as it goes through and I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u0022de13701a0b284fdcbd8db70cec5b992a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de13701a0b284fdcbd8db70cec5b992a\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to give a small contribution in support of the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, in the name of the member who has actually just left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EThis bill, I must admit, is something that has brought me back to thinking of growing up on the farm, when, for us, growing up, there were no rules and regulations; we went out and found a tree and we saw a few accidents at the time. But it is now time for a safe and controlled environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EWhat this bill will do is amend legislation which will relate to the clubs and ranges. It will also redefine some things, being pistol-shooting and non - pistol-shooting ranges. Some of these amendments we see as just common sense and they will ensure to reduce any gun-related accidents. Also, as the speaker who was introducing the bill said, \u201CIs there a tangible benefit to public safety by having this in legislation?\u201D I see that that is a good question to ask when legislation is being made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EI will keep this short. On behalf of New Zealand First, I commend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6e1308470984d68aa890d29423262ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6e1308470984d68aa890d29423262ff\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I will invite the member\u2014I didn\u2019t want to interrupt\u2014to not read quite so much of her speeches in the future. You\u2019re a good speaker, and get some confidence by leaving those notes behind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u00221931e5d06c0646fd955a151b46f5e327\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221931e5d06c0646fd955a151b46f5e327\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Thank you. Kia ora t\u0101tou katoa. It is a public safety issue. It\u2019s a huge public safety issue, but if you don\u2019t talk to the public, then you\u2019re not going to understand and know what\u2019s going on. Going just to the guys or the gals that have a holster and love the gun and talk about that and worship it and so on, you\u2019re not going to understand the real issues that go on in the minds of families\u2014regular families that live in regular streets, that want to feel and know that they are safe from this kind of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EThe loosening of regulations has to be a huge concern for every single person in this House. To dismiss it as if, \u201CWell, the gun lobbyist knows what she\u2019s talking about, so let\u2019s just let her make those decisions, shall we?\u201D\u2014that is a huge risk. That is negligent. Wake up to that fact, e t\u0101tou m\u0101. Wake up to it. It\u2019s a gun, right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003EIt might have been the middle of last year, we had two of our wh\u0101nau going to check out a house in the Whang\u0101rei Heads area and ended up being shot by the gentleman that was living in that house. Now, from what I understand, he seemed like a regular guy\u2014so regular. They arrived, checked out the facility, shot the mother, shot the daughter, burnt the house down, and he died. These very current and real and tragic stories are in the minds and in the fear of people and families and wh\u0101nau and their mokopuna that want to feel safe, and this kind of legislation, loosening of these regulations, is negligent. It\u2019ll be detrimental and we completely object and oppose it. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u002218804c52d8734fcd9c8f856498ccb846\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218804c52d8734fcd9c8f856498ccb846\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of this first reading. These changes are part of our coalition Government\u2019s plan to reform the 41-year-old Arms Act. We collectively want to modernise the Act so that it\u2019s fit for purpose for public safety with the best regulatory practice in place. Like our chair on the Justice Committee, James Meager, said, we look forward to submitters, we look forward to their submissions, and we look forward to a conversation in the Justice Committee that\u2019s based on the facts and not on inflammatory rhetoric. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022450bac86be6a43969de4bd29c3d030b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022450bac86be6a43969de4bd29c3d030b6\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It speaks volumes that that member\u2014all he could really say is that \u201CThis is part of our coalition plan\u201D. I have strong views about this kind of liberalisation of what I thought was a very good, cross-party consensus on firearms being watered down. I was there in Christchurch on 15 March. I was in the square when a school kids\u2019 climate change march was dispersed. I was there when kids were cowering in my office with me, afraid because they didn\u2019t know what was going on, you know?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThen I came back to this House and we worked hard and quickly to reach a good arrangement that saw more stringent rules around firearms, military-style semi-automatics, and gun ranges. That party over there on the other side of the House supported that, and we worked very cooperatively. We listened. We consulted widely. I want to tell you something: we went around the country and listened to whoever wanted to speak to us. I remember distinctly, because I was on the select committee, going to the Sudima Hotel in Christchurch, out by the airport, and listening to numerous submissions while there were some protesters outside\u2014gun lobbyists. Do you know who was out there on the front lawn of the Sudima Hotel? Nicole McKee. Anyone who tells me she is not a gun lobbyist is deeply mistaken. Go and have a look at her Facebook page. She\u2019s got a post up there with some people from the Muslim community, but the rest of them are her at antique gun shows, deer-stalking shows, rifle ranges\u2014she is deep into the rifle and gun community. She does not have a balanced view, and this is who is leading the Arms Act reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got no problem\u2014as Scott Willis from the Greens said, and I heard his speech, guns have a place in our community. But let\u2019s not pretend that they can\u2019t be harmful, that there aren\u2019t significant dangers in there. The idea that you can have gun ranges which are largely unregulated, in fact, just self-regulated, where you can go along with your firearms, buy a bit of ammo\u2014and I heard the Associate Minister of Justice the Hon Nicole McKee\u2019s speech, she said they have to use it all on the range. Who\u2019s counting? Who\u2019s caring? Who\u2019s keeping records? I\u2019ll tell you who: absolutely no one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis is just the\u2014well, it\u2019s actually the second step. I listened to the Minister say, \u201CDon\u2019t worry, we\u2019re going to consult. We\u2019re going to consult under section 74(4) of the Arms Act.\u201D Well, she\u2019s already passed regulations and said she consulted\u2014because that section of the Arms Act says you consult with who you think it\u2019s \u201Cpracticable\u201D to consult with. Who did she think it was practicable to consult with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221015445c70b64d13807ab459b36ce752\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Her mates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: Her mates\u2014that\u2019s right, Glen Bennett, her mates\u2014who are also gun nuts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EIt is absolutely appalling that this Government, that party over there in particular, is being led by the nose because that\u2019s the price of power. If the price of power is to liberalise gun laws to lead to the kind of tragedies that we\u2019ve seen in Christchurch, in Aramoana, and elsewhere, then we\u2019re in a sad, sad state indeed. No one\u2019s saying the Arms Act isn\u2019t old, but let\u2019s not pretend this is some kind of modernisation. This is a programme of radical liberalisation of gun laws, and the National Party\u2019s complicit in the ACT Party\u2019s programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022a615505dd2c4496784ca7c220e04e744\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a615505dd2c4496784ca7c220e04e744\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I stand in support of the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. The bill seeks to simplify regulation of a 40-year-old law. It simplifies regulation and distinguishes between pistol clubs and non-pistol clubs and pistol ranges and non-pistol ranges, ensuring that regulation is able to be implemented well. The bill also is, as my colleague Cameron Brewer said, part of a suite of legislation that this Government is putting in place that seeks to support and promote public safety outcomes throughout New Zealand. This is part of a series of legislation that we have put together and are carrying out, including gang legislation, sentencing reform, and rehabilitation in corrections. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022 data-id=\u0022291629ba0d794aa88a5a1f630bd9566d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022291629ba0d794aa88a5a1f630bd9566d\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just was listening to some contributions and also recalling the day that I think was the impetus for a lot of the changes\u2014the good changes\u2014that we had made in March in Christchurch when the terrorist attack happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EI too, like the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, was in town in the middle of the CBD with the school strike for climate change and had only got a couple of blocks away from that event when I heard all the sirens and all the commotion. I think it was kind of quite natural to think that something had happened there, and it took a few minutes to realise what indeed had happened and the enormity of what had happened. Whilst all tragedies are unspeakable, and the images that you may create in your mind wondering what had happened and filling in the gaps, I don\u2019t think anything could have prepared me for the fact that a terrorist had literally taken a vile weapon and an inhumane weapon and an inhumane intentionality and cut down so many people\u2014which is deplorable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EAs has been said as we\u2019ve made some contributions on this side of the House, it really is just back to the old days\u2014the bad old days\u2014of self-regulation and no regulation at all at shooting clubs and shooting ranges. I think that it\u2019s very easy for the Minister to position this particular bill as a small step, but like all changes in direction and like all ideological missteps, often they come in small steps and each of those small steps adds up to something quite grotesque and quite dangerous. This is certainly a subject matter that is heading in that direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe public safety risks of this were highlighted, as has been traversed by the royal commission of inquiry into the terrorist attacks in Christchurch. We know that they\u2019re currently subject to a coroner\u2019s inquiry, and what the Minister is, effectively, saying is that the changes that were made in 2019 and the changes that were made in 2020 that were part of a consolidated process\u2014as my colleague said, where people had the opportunity to provide their views, where experts from a cross-section of New Zealand were able to have their views represented. That culminated in what, I think, were really good changes\u2014that were really celebrated, that were regarded as swift and powerful leadership, where the rest of the world said, \u201CGosh, there\u2019s New Zealand\u2014suffers a tragedy and actually has the foresight and has the fortitude and has the leadership in place to do something profound about it.\u201D I certainly remember lots of media at the time commending us for that. To take us backwards, as so much of the Government\u2019s agenda is doing, on this particular issue is completely galling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard that the bill creates multiple loopholes for gang members and extremists alike, in particular, to exploit, and that\u2019s not something to take lightly. It\u2019s all very well thinking that self-regulation and loosening up of rules in service of an essential lobbying activity is OK because you regard yourself as a safety expert, but being a safety expert and then removing safety requirements from shooting clubs and from shooting ranges, which, let\u2019s not forget, is exactly the environment and exactly the place where the Christchurch terrorist practised, essentially, before turning his gun on real people\u2014doing that in the name of safety just feels like another kick in the guts, to be honest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EThe changes also create a frightening precedent for landowners, who might find pop-up rifle shooting ranges over their back fence. The bill risks the ability of the police or the firearms regulator to enforce any safety oversight or even inspect the facilities. It really does have that wild west feel to it, doesn\u2019t it, when you start to visualise and imagine the circumstances that those landowners could find themselves in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c46de55f-b9e4-4c64-9ac6-877bd89c2fc5\u0022\u003EIt feels like there is a certain amount of outrage on this side of the House about this particular bill, and rightly so. It\u2019s an outrage that I think we all share, and it feels as if it\u2019s very well directed at a Minister who we don\u2019t think is moving this in the right direction. We don\u2019t commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022 data-id=\u00221509cfcd8d4e4f2fbfaa0129cd9fe4fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221509cfcd8d4e4f2fbfaa0129cd9fe4fc\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak in support of the first reading of the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. This is a Government bill in the name of the Hon Nicole McKee, our very hard-working Minister who is to my right, and she is the Associate Minister of Justice, indeed. This amendment that we\u2019re having k\u014Drero on today is part of the ACT - National Party coalition agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003ENational supports this bill. We support it for a number of reasons, but, first, I\u2019d like to direct the attention of listeners at home, those that just tuned in right now, as to what the essential purpose of this bill is. This bill aims to support public-safety outcomes by improving, in our strong opinion, compliance with the Arms Act 1983, and how we feel this is going to happen is by simplifying the regulatory requirements for non - pistol-shooting clubs and ranges and changing some\u2014not all, but some\u2014of the requirements in relation to inspections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EThe Act currently requires all shooting clubs to hold a certificate of approval issued by the Commissioner of Police\u2014the commissioner, for our references\u2014and for all shooting ranges to be certified by the commissioner. Now, one of the things that this bill aims to do is to create a distinction and, indeed, different levels of regulation between pistol-shooting clubs and non - pistol-shooting clubs and between pistol-shooting ranges and non \u2013 pistol-shooting ranges. What this distinction does is it recognises that, due to the ability to conceal them, pistols are more strictly regulated than non-pistols, and licence holders must hold an endorsement on their licence that means they are eligible to apply for a permit to possess a pistol. These are additional to processes that are not required for possessing non-pistols.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EI know there\u2019s been some strong words utilised tonight, this afternoon, with respect to the different views about, in particular, the dissenting views with respect to this bill, but what I\u2019d like to do is just bring us back to some of those key messages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e019de17de104ceaa5b43b0dba03dcbf\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Get it back to the facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac9151345c254bf7a818918a11602165\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Now, these changes are part of the Government\u2019s plan to reform the 40-year-old Arms Act, and the reason why we want to modernise this Act is so that it is fit for public safety and the best regulatory practice. I\u2019m proud of the fact that our Government has been doing quite a lot in the law and order arena, and this is one of them indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003ESome of the actions that we\u2019ve taken recently that I\u2019m particularly proud of is banning the gang insignia in public places. If we can just remind the House that last week, the Labour Party, as much as I respect many of its members, did not vote for this bill. I know people in Takanini spoke to me over the weekend saying they were actually horrified that some parties did not vote for the gangs legislation. We\u2019re giving police the power to issue dispersal notices to get rid of these groups that are intimidating many people. Families with little children feel they can\u2019t even go out and enjoy their Sundays. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003EAnother thing we\u2019re doing, which I\u2019m really proud of, is we\u2019re introducing powers for courts to issue non-consenting orders with respect to this gangs bill. We\u2019re introducing sentencing reforms. We are doing so much in the law and order arena\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7de83bd4096454885ede3e44525d6c3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The member is not only reading her speeches, but she\u2019s also drifting quite far away from the bill. Can I ask you to address both. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002239b9bac1-a992-4ccf-a473-9591aeb3a298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022121fa8243a7d4aa9a3c872b4135e61f6\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. This amendment bill is just another one of the suite of changes we\u2019re doing in the law and order arena that we\u2019re very proud of, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00226c411d44a86c4c44b02fa51169bbea54\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000527\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022138e34dcb6ce4936867444bfd7d5ebe4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EArms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be considered by the Justice Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022252afe2e5d1244ae939406755d990e6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022252afe2e5d1244ae939406755d990e6d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is That the \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226181e3c6f9054e49947412ab1e017201\u0022\u003EInstruction to Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u0022766d2bf571cd43929ee357efae1ee7b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022766d2bf571cd43929ee357efae1ee7b2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by four months and one day after the bill has received its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228018bb87b80f471a9c51f74fe25bfe42\u0022\u003EBudapest Convention and Related Matters Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022257ffd364e4940bb90e83125b07b0dc4\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002218a8bf10e83a4f64ac2b02302bc02b84\u0022\u003EInternational Treaty examinations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022334758f908184e148f8ae6eb7243d346\u0022\u003EInternational Treaty Examination of the Council of Europe Convention on Cybercrime\u2014Report of Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u002257802e54eadb45aba383efbde1f09bd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257802e54eadb45aba383efbde1f09bd1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Associate Minister of Defence) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Justice: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I present a legislative statement on the Budapest Convention and Related Matters Legislation Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c37941888164a5b97dc3e7e6c54ce99\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House. It can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fadd29e45e3e424d9ea983c881bdad33\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Budapest Convention and Related Matters Legislation Amendment bill be now read a first time, and that the report of the Justice Committee be noted. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill\u2014because they don\u2019t have enough work on currently!\u2014and, at the appropriate time, I also intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 1 March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThis bill is a key step towards acceding to the Budapest convention, the Council of Europe\u2019s convention on cyber-crime. Cyber-crime, of course, poses a significant threat to the public. According to the Ministry of Justice\u2019s New Zealand Crime and Victims Survey, 11 percent of New Zealanders were victims of fraud and cyber-crime in 2023. This causes significant financial and emotional harm. Combating cyber-crime, however, is not something we can do alone. Offenders work across international borders, hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. Stopping them is only possible if we work together with other countries across the globe. It is my hope also that we can work together on these issues across this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EAcceding to the Budapest convention demonstrates our commitment to joining this fight. Most of our closest international partners are already parties to the convention. By joining them, we signal to them that we take cyber-crime seriously and we are prepared to do our part to eliminate it. Acceding will also help our law enforcement agencies to protect New Zealanders, making it easier to request assistance in gathering this evidence, especially digital evidence that is stored overseas. Access to this evidence can be crucial to the successful detection, investigation, and prosecution of crimes of all kinds, not just cyber-crimes. Of course, you know a thing or two about detecting crimes of all kinds, Mr Speaker, so I\u2019ve no doubt you will follow this with interest. However, we cannot accede, as you will appreciate, unless our domestic legislation aligns with the requirements of the convention. That is the very purpose of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EOne of the most significant changes that the bill makes is to amend the Search and Surveillance Act to bring in a new tool for law enforcement called a preservation direction. Preservation directions will protect vulnerable evidence, such as digital records, from being deleted or destroyed before law enforcement can seize them. The records held by banks and telcos\u2014or telecommunications companies\u2014can be valuable evidence for the police, but they are often routinely deleted as part of data storage or data minimisation policies. Preservation directions will enable law enforcement agencies to require the person or company who holds a specific document to preserve it for a set period of time while they go through the steps necessary to seize the document as evidence. In limited circumstances where the relevant document is a record or telecommunication, the company may also be required to help identify other companies who hold relevant records or who may hold relevant records. Importantly, however, the bill does not require that the document itself be handed over to law enforcement. That process for obtaining the actual content of customer records remains subject to all existing safeguards. We are simply ensuring that valuable evidence cannot disappear while this process is being undertaken. Preservation directions will be available for both domestic and foreign investigations, as required by the Budapest convention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThe bill also amends further the Search and Surveillance Act to create new offences to prevent the disclosure of information that could prejudice criminal investigations. It will be an offence for anyone required to preserve documents by a preservation direction to disclose that the preservation direction exists. Similarly, where police have a warrant to undertake surveillance, it will be an offence for anyone who assists them to carry out that warrant to disclose that it exists. These provisions are required by the convention, but they\u2019re also good sense, because they recognise that nobody wants a criminal to be tipped off that they\u2019re being watched by the police before the police are good and ready. To prevent unnecessary restrictions on freedom of expression, the bill contains provisions that mean that these offences may no longer apply where there is no longer a risk of prejudice to the investigation. A proportionate response\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cdcfd1504374aa29d413bf9513d3331\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: Justified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022342c192417044719857f4dc073f1e623\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: A justified limitation, as my friend and colleague in the chair of the Justice Committee, James Meager, points out. The bill also amends the Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, the legislation that governs the assistance that we give other countries on criminal investigations and what we seek in return. The bill also enables police to apply for production orders and surveillance device warrants in response to a request for assistance from a foreign country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EThese provisions ensure we are aligned with the Budapest convention. They also ensure that powers available domestically are available to respond to requests for assistance in foreign investigations and prosecutions. A key principle of mutual assistance is that it must be reciprocal. To receive assistance, we must of course\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294c3733b717b483ab5895cf6d13266fd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the mutual bit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022333c4b34b6cd48f1ad4beaf5b054111e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014be willing to offer it in return as well. By amending our mutual assistance legislation to allow requests for surveillance\u2014it\u2019s not the time of the week to be splitting hairs, \u201CDoc\u201D Webb\u2014we can also make outgoing requests; very outgoing, no doubt. Accordingly, the bill also allows the Attorney-General to request a foreign country to undertake surveillance on our behalf. Adding these powers to the Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters Act will enable us to more effectively support international criminal investigations, which is crucial, I say, if we want to combat cyber-crime and other forms of harmful criminal activity that occur across borders. It will support our law enforcement agencies to work collaboratively with their peers across the globe. Most importantly, it will also ensure that harm suffered here in our own communities is traced back to those who caused it and that they are held accountable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EUnder the heading of safeguards for human rights, I do want to point out the importance of our efforts towards these laudable goals not being manipulated or misappropriated by those who do not share our values. Accordingly, there are a number of safeguards in the bills. Existing requirements in the Search and Surveillance Act and the Mutual Assistance and Criminal Matters Act must be met before a production order or a surveillance device warrant can be issued for mutual assistance purposes. These include requirements to refuse assistance if the request appears to be aimed at persecuting someone due to their race, religion, or political leanings. The bill further enhances these existing protections by only allowing a mutual assistance order or warrant to be issued by a High Court judge. To give greater clarity to those responsible for processing mutual assistance requests, the bill codifies the decision by the Supreme Court which requires that a person affected by a search under mutual assistance legislation is notified before any material seized is then sent offshore. The bill makes it clear who must be notified and when, and ensures a balance between human rights and the practical needs of criminal investigations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, through this bill, New Zealand will signal our commitment to combating the serious harm caused by cyber-crime both here and overseas. We will provide our law enforcement with the tools that they need to detect, investigate, and prosecute criminal offending\u2014and we thank them for that\u2014even when key evidence is held overseas. Most importantly, we ensure our laws can continue to protect New Zealanders in the digital age. I commend this bill, therefore, to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022d154d14852ca4462aea02a6721190f70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d154d14852ca4462aea02a6721190f70\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 15\u00A0October. Thank you for three weeks of very hard work. I remind you that we began the sitting block with the tributes to the M\u0101ori king, Kiingi Tuheitia. It does seem some time ago, but it has been something when this House did come together. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20240926d5d70a0be57c4ca2879291d347f4086d000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.59 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"