"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002248d9f97791464b9393e1bd47fd36ec81\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 17 OCTOBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227684762ac25648878a54528870b0540f\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 17 OCTOBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002202bb11f7857e421eb2e0d564235978bb\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222428c5f248f146cabe3b7690b7c70efc\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u002220f29b6cc3de410c940ae931c3f17e82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220f29b6cc3de410c940ae931c3f17e82\u0022\u003EGREG O\u2019CONNOR (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e0f7ce0b1d874757bcbcde6cdd0695a8\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224604a39660b34d6f95aad16c1f228bb5\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u002289e6cc788f5d42109d75453d7369c467\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289e6cc788f5d42109d75453d7369c467\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Next week, the House will consider the first readings of the Mental Health Bill and the Policing (Police Vetting) Amendment Bill. We will consider further stages of the Gambling (Definition of Remote Interactive Gambling) Amendment Bill, the Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, and the Contracts of Insurance Bill. On Thursday morning, there will be extended hours for private, local, and members\u2019 business. On Thursday afternoon, there will be a two-hour debate on constituency and local issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EJust finally, in closing, I\u2019ve just been informed that today is the final day of the Australian Associated Press news outlet in New Zealand. I think they\u2019ve been here for 50 years, including in the press gallery, and I\u2019m sure all members wish them well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u0022c236e7ea82254b2eafa4d6a44a3eaf27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c236e7ea82254b2eafa4d6a44a3eaf27\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the Leader of the House for the update and thank him for including an extended sitting to cover off the deficit in members\u2019 days. By my calculation, there still is one owing to the House. Can he commit to ensuring there\u2019ll be another extended sitting before the end of the year to tally it up?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcfa4dfa19a8460eb757426e4f35de7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcfa4dfa19a8460eb757426e4f35de7c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I think it depends on how you define the \u201Cowing\u201D point. As the member will be aware, we have had some unanticipated and quite tragic interruptions to the House this year. But certainly, from the Government\u2019s point of view, we will do our best, subject to other important business between now and the end of the year, to fit that in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e9d33e8b19641e7913e31318d7c3b36\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022100d9a8530ad4a828b9ed3f14f83c2cc\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8ad6ffaf24f4fc99be9518006fe8b70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8ad6ffaf24f4fc99be9518006fe8b70\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002291b20462851f4be6b14d6516e25e00bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291b20462851f4be6b14d6516e25e00bf\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Julie Anne Genter requesting that the House urge the Minister of Transport to keep permanent speed limit changes outside of schools, continue the current rule allowing Councils to set appropriate speed limits on local roads, and stop the blanket speed limit increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00222d894f8c17a04c37b2074baaf4661df3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d894f8c17a04c37b2074baaf4661df3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00222821664bbcf04ee9b0bc360c7d01691f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222821664bbcf04ee9b0bc360c7d01691f\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2023-24 annual reports of the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Defence Force\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003ESerious Fraud Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2024-28 strategic intentions for New Zealand Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2024-28 statement of intent for the New Zealand Defence Force\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the 2023-24 non-departmental appropriations for the Science, Innovation and Technology portfolio.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u002280f191b6710a473da537b2919a60e73a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280f191b6710a473da537b2919a60e73a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I present the annual report for the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment for the year ending 30 June 2024. Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef72f14af3674e55a9ae6314f5c0c442\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef72f14af3674e55a9ae6314f5c0c442\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReports of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereview briefing on the 2022-23 annual review of the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereview briefing on the 2022-23 annual review of the New Zealand Institute for Plant and Food Research\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on Te Pire m\u014D \u014C-R\u0101kau, Te Pae o Maumahara/\u014C-R\u0101kau Remembrance Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022658d5c2aabea41948534166a3349b8c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022658d5c2aabea41948534166a3349b8c1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for second reading and the review briefings are set down for consideration. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0e0442115f94408b78c7721cef02048\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0e0442115f94408b78c7721cef02048\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Auckland Harbour Board and Takapuna Borough Council Empowering Act Amendment Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022297515a6c023411ba6185ebd7b0c9141\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022297515a6c023411ba6185ebd7b0c9141\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002281d4543dcd004e33a70850b463812e71\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226040bb6760364cb3af52d069b5f8d2a4\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e05f4c7949524a3d967a19fc4a8fca45\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8 to Minister, 16 October\u2014Amended Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00222b17550ae6234bba9cb0bd1dbe75ee5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b17550ae6234bba9cb0bd1dbe75ee5d\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to correct an answer to oral question No. 8 yesterday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ea461aa0e724b869a52177f1f147e48\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d481b2ddcd0426d84253fa04ab9c2ed\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Yesterday in question time, I inadvertently stated that Te Ahu o te Reo M\u0101ori provided teachers up to 20 hours of M\u0101ori language professional learning and development. I meant to say 120 hours of professional learning and development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c879b929aada42a8be42fbb830309eb1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Wh\u0101nau Ora\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022 data-id=\u0022a38b8fa2f4854f479d5f98654777471c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a38b8fa2f4854f479d5f98654777471c\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora: What role does he believe Wh\u0101nau Ora plays for all wh\u0101nau in Aotearoa, both M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori, who choose to engage with its services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022 data-id=\u00229a49d10fe7a141529907416daa0394a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a49d10fe7a141529907416daa0394a6\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for Wh\u0101nau Ora):\u003C/span\u003E Wh\u0101nau Ora is a visionary kaupapa\u2014Government-enabled, locally led, and wh\u0101nau-centred\u2014launched by Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the National Party together nearly 15 years ago. It\u2019s a holistic approach to facilitating and delivering outcomes through a wh\u0101nau delivery model focused on the needs of M\u0101ori and, actually, all New Zealanders. It\u2019s inclusive of M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori, and it\u2019s been exciting for me to see, for example, a Pasifika commissioning agency over the past few years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255890d8948ff4769ae64cb21428d3cb7\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister think it is necessary to fragment the Wh\u0101nau Ora network, creating uncertainty for the hundreds of providers and the people they serve, when the current model is a proven success?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e00203b55c3847048f09671eac205bcc\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: This Government believes in the Wh\u0101nau Ora kaupapa, hence why we have continued to commit the same budget level for Wh\u0101nau Ora over the next few years as has been committed in the last year. But we\u2019re also cognisant of the need to ensure that we have value for money in the delivery of better public services, and after 10 years of no formal procurement process, we thought it was important to undertake an engagement and procurement process for Wh\u0101nau Ora, especially in light of the new targets, priorities, and objectives of this Government. But what I can also assert and observe is that many of the Wh\u0101nau Ora providers do not just rely on the allocation through the Wh\u0101nau Ora allocation under Vote M\u0101ori Development but actually engage themselves in Votes across Government, including Vote Health\u2014and I acknowledge Dr Reti for his commitment to two-year-old immunisations in the last year through Wh\u0101nau Ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cba86fe436154e30b20cf069db9c276f\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: What is his response to Wh\u0101nau Ora providers who are concerned that they will now have to compete with the likes of the Salvation Army for alternative funding as a result of the uncertainty he has created?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6ac5a8847be479b8e550dfe3f2226cf\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve mentioned, there is a procurement and engagement process that\u2019s under way, and there are a number of providers throughout the delivery of Government services, not just in Wh\u0101nau Ora but across many portfolios and appropriations, that have evidenced similar concerns. However, we will run a defensible and credible process, and that matter currently is at the operational end of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227600399-0a88-4371-a784-b5a7bc7afc37\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2f670f8456e4cfda80e2f8a1233c7cd\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: How will this Government sustain a fourth commissioning agency when he has cut funding for the three that already exist?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232601127-a1e9-4ba0-b6af-99865a84a209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b3a6d4011c848c9a4228f87e958af27\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I would observe that there is no predetermined outcome for the current process under way and it is not absolutely certain that there will be a fourth commissioning agency. However, what I will say is that we will go through a defensible procurement process and ensure that the needs of M\u0101ori and any others who engage in Wh\u0101nau Ora services are provided for by way of the commissioning agencies and Wh\u0101nau Ora providers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022724d09ff235446bf921c4e99cdc35f1e\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Public Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022 data-id=\u002202d5ff33536e410bb82479d151831d3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202d5ff33536e410bb82479d151831d3a\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Public Service: What recent reports has she seen about the Public Service workforce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbd25f9e3413473ab80a943dd0e9dd02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbd25f9e3413473ab80a943dd0e9dd02\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister for the Public Service):\u003C/span\u003E The latest workforce data released by the Public Service Commission shows a significant shift in back-office resources towards the front line. The data show a 10.8 percent year-on-year reduction in the number of clerical and administrative staff in the Public Service, and an 8.3 percent drop in policy advisers. This has been offset by annual increases in service delivery roles, including a 16.9 percent rise in contact centre workers who are often the first point of contact for members of the public; and there\u2019s been a 5.7 percent increase in the number of inspectors and regulatory officers; and a 1.5 percent increase in the number of social, health, and education workers. This Government promised to shift resources from the back office to the front line, and we are delivering on that promise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c701918bf324dec8e5a9c6a9fda77b8\u0022\u003EPaulo Garcia\u003C/span\u003E: What is happening to the overall size of the Public Service workforce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230ff86a8bc2e47ea9b61b7384a8d45ca\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Over the course of the year to 30 June, the number of public servants grew slightly, to 63,537\u2014a 0.7 percent increase. But when you drill into the details, it is a year of two halves. The first half of the year, under the previous Government, saw a continuation of strong growth in Public Service numbers through to December. The second half of the year, under this Government, saw a decline of 3.3\u00A0percent. While this makes up an overall annual increase of 0.7\u00A0percent, this compares to average increases of almost 5 percent of the previous five years as growth ballooned with no corresponding improvement in outcomes. The steps this Government is taking to restore discipline to public expenditure and drive more value for money are working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b32c6a264a88496b9c4b6d59b7eef667\u0022\u003EPaulo Garcia\u003C/span\u003E: What is happening to contractor and consultant spend by the Public Service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2bdcf87ce3d4a97b959452e5b5dd5fd\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m delighted to see that the brakes have also well and truly been put on contractor and consultant spending. The workforce data shows this operating spending fell by $274\u00A0million, or 13 percent, when compared to the previous year. The Government is targeting a reduction in contractor and consultant operating spending of $400\u00A0million, and good progress is being made towards this. Contractor and consultant spending was another area that blew out under the previous Government, and this Government is bringing it back under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229188988b-e79b-4381-969a-982d0ebdb3ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cee041abd824a189ea7f23b84c24e78\u0022\u003EPaulo Garcia\u003C/span\u003E: What other changes has she seen in the Public Service workforce?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245bb4992b83444dd90f83f1a25a74f27\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: On Monday, the Prime Minister announced that Sir Brian Roche will be the next Public Service Commissioner. Sir Brian is a highly respected New Zealander, and I am delighted that he will be stepping into this crucial leadership position on 4 November. He brings a wealth of experience in both public and private sector roles, and a proven track record of leadership and delivering results. Sir Brian also knows how to develop talent and drive performance\u2014two things that will be critical for the Public Service over the next few years. I want to thank and acknowledge members of other parties in Parliament who have welcomed Sir Brian\u2019s ascension to this role, and I\u2019m sure that the House joins with me in wishing him all the best and in also thanking Heather Baggott\u2014who has done a great job acting as Public Service Commissioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8c197c417074d3c8d6051f5dfbc8d2d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the member, just remind members that there\u2019s a longstanding series of Speakers\u2019 rulings on members moving from their usual seat to another seat closer to the action for the purposes of interjection. So we\u2019ll now call on question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d3b42a02695499d98770e78e53e6014\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b1e56490fe64d0583ffe968c80c340f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I knew this was coming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aabb2427b01c4085af13d8795d4e11f1\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, with respect, for the House\u2019s understanding, if you\u2019ve got a concern, I believe you should be a bit more specific. Because I\u2019m not aware of any member that has moved seat for the purpose of interjecting. If you were to outline it, perhaps we could explain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280b1cc325c164b55b97c0e6a3832ddd3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, fascinating that you bring that up, but it\u2019s not for you to make the judgment\u2014it\u2019s for me. All I\u2019m suggesting is that where people have moved from their usual seats and they are interjecting, they need to be a little cautious in how they do that. Nothing wrong with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c96b38054b384fd992c197223cf0ab66\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284f0097bafe149f9b507b3746e15ffc1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s no longer a point of order\u2014just made that a ruling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225353ccf0dac641c38f29c86059e1d751\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: OK, point of order then. The issue here, then, is that you\u2019re right and Speakers\u2019 rulings are quite clear that a member should not move seats or change seats for the purpose of interjecting. It doesn\u2019t, however, prevent anyone that has moved due to someone not being here for the day. Moving seats around is commonplace on both sides of the House. If that were to happen, it doesn\u2019t preclude them from interjecting, particularly if that member was already a frontbench member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219275862e119498fb7e2b470ee46aba8\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2e7a003193e44e48e08c436c2074bc5\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014shh!\u2014and happens to have moved two seats along.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a33ab078829146088e4e50c53f17a86a\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Not me!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249ed1d55b2c84f5f8fdc14753641e21e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Who was it then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddf56071d3b0477eafdd0d69c3e920e3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it doesn\u2019t matter who it was. It really illustrates the point and you can point of order this all day long if you want to. I\u2019ve simply given a gentle warning to the House that it is something that people should bear in mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a51634c9da754e1eaebb7e2a1da0690c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022 data-id=\u002208b5fb517caf4794a1e53d662d4d150a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208b5fb517caf4794a1e53d662d4d150a\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by the Government\u2019s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on jobseeker support; if so, how many people are on jobseeker support today compared to when she took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022 data-id=\u0022885911b955a444f7b12d9daf20ba9a9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022885911b955a444f7b12d9daf20ba9a9a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in April this year, the Government set a target to reduce the number of people on jobseeker benefit to 140,000 over the next six years, from a baseline of 190,000 in December 2023. One of the reasons for setting this target was the fact that, over the previous six years, the number of people on jobseeker increased significantly, rising by over 66,000, or 55 percent, between December 2017 and December 2023. When this target was set, officials expected jobseeker numbers would continue to rise for some time due to the poor state of the economy, which had seen little to no growth for the previous two years. Since taking office, as expected, the number of people on jobseeker support has continued to increase, rising by 20,895. We expect this number will rise further due to the lagged effects of high inflation, high interest rates, and the recession on employment. We\u2019re confident the steps we are taking to improve the welfare system, such as increased engagement with job seekers through case management and the introduction of the traffic light system, will pay off through reduced benefit dependency as economic conditions improve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227088bb9236114dd4a9b4fec5e5dca115\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does she acknowledge that escalating unemployment and jobseeker beneficiary numbers are leading to increased hardship for wh\u0101nau?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022761eadfe3a0c466282e782c90d86d701\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge that two years of low to no growth led to unemployment, which is why we are seeing, unfortunately, rising numbers of unemployment. That is why our Government is absolutely focused on getting people into work so they have their own income, and I\u2019m proud to advise the House that, in the last three months, we have seen an increase of 2,457 people exit the jobseeker benefit into work compared to a year ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226538bf513bb241f8add0618f718070e5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Have you got a supplementary from someone there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab653cb3cd674469a1a53e006341d76a\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, Mr Speaker. Why did she ignore advice about increasing the amount of Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme (RSE) workers entering the country when the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) is already struggling to find job seekers meaningful employment in the regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e323d7de6775418e9c53127c2f8b5322\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As that member will know, many regions require RSE workers for short periods of time, so there is always the balance when we are trying to get the economy up and running again, to ensure that there is short-term supply of labour for required workforces at the same time as balancing the needs of job seekers, who are spread around the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b0ed09cb9694e70a8128eabc8d2fa3e\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that medical practitioners are better placed to determine fitness for work than public servants; if so, will she commit to exempting those with medical certificates stating they are unfit to work for mental health or disability conditions from being reassessed on their fitness to work by MSD staff?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caba07c2edf6434b8715881f83c33e97\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The member raises a really important point about work capacity. Our focus is absolutely on what people can do. In some ways, the very blunt way that the work capacity has been done in the past has restricted people\u2019s ability to do some work. So this side of the House is absolutely focused on what people can do rather than what they can\u2019t, and what we do want to ensure is that we are not putting additional barriers in the way of people being in work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211ec0fa751e443139b5a3ef69e4a4d31\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That was a very clear question asking whether a person with a medical certificate will be reassessed by an MSD worker, and whilst the Minister spoke to the general nature of it, she absolutely did not address that fundamental question of reassessment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c160d0cb2dc6440b8beea9defa44060c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that might be an interesting point, but if you have a look at the primary question, it talks about numbers and asks for a comparison between now and then. I personally was right on the edge of thinking that that question was almost outside of the wickets of the primary, but the Minister did give an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fd94bcdcdf34a979787051dc47e4524\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she ignore officials\u2019 advice and not allow beneficiaries on a non-financial sanction to access hardship assistance given the dire state of unemployment and the cost of living crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cf0ec9c3fa64672b8be0dc706413fdb\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Because I thought it was really important to ensure that there\u2019s consistency with the current sanction regime. I will note for the House that our Government hasn\u2019t changed the sanction regime\u2014all we\u2019ve done is actually use it. So the advice for the new one, which is non-financial, actually will mean people are better off because they will get their full benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3a88c42-f60b-4cf9-8065-8bfb80a020eb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022020c85fb30e24edd833948bea23f3bad\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: When will she take full responsibility for increased jobseeker beneficiaries, increased hardship for New Zealanders, and decreased assistance for that hardship given she has ignored the advice of her own officials because she thinks she knows better?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a68928ea-9dd8-4a30-8e2c-a0f49dfc8bea\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d63517713289432582d8660b96bd9548\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m really proud of the record that our Government has despite incredibly challenging economic times and unemployment that follows a period of high Government spending, high inflation, and high interest rates. We have 2,457 job seekers in the last three months who\u2019ve exited into work, which is an increase on the year before. That\u2019s what I\u2019m proud of. And, actually, our side of the House doesn\u2019t necessarily think it is a bad thing when hardship grants reduce. That means that households are able to look after themselves, and that is a direct result of lower inflation and a lower cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220762549f98084dbda86b48f6f8abbc31\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe56febecced48069123f78a5856985e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe56febecced48069123f78a5856985e\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: What update can he provide on the coalition Government\u2019s progress?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f69fb2bc8afb4af0a31ce1c312485075\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f69fb2bc8afb4af0a31ce1c312485075\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: We are just 11 months, delivering across the board, injecting life back into New Zealand with the fast-track consenting bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ed8ae530e14e65aac46cddbb7266e1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211091931eb834b39839b5e09af4fab51\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve got to be pretty dumb to start laughing before you\u2019ve heard the answer, eh? It represents a knife through unnecessary red tape and delays, paving the way for infrastructure we badly need. The Regional Infrastructure Fund will pump $1.2\u00A0billion worth of much-needed stimulus into our regions, the backbone of the country. Establishing a National Infrastructure Agency\u2014a vital move towards securing long-term and strategic investments that futureproof New Zealand\u2019s economy. A Government serious about unlocking development and progress\u2014Resource Management Act reform will set us on exactly that path. We\u2019re dealing with the country\u2019s health and education systems, and because of us alone, we will, in New Zealand, reach the smoke-free target in 2024, not some time in the distant future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e14fbad1b9f4d2f9dc222482c237dbc\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: What actions has the coalition Government taken to uphold equal citizenship and democracy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f75d2c59a132479b9379864b44da06b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Cabinet communicated our expectations for public services being prioritised on the common-sense basis of need, not race. Unfortunately, it was necessary to clarify that race or personal identity is in fact not a proxy for need; anyone who understood poverty would know that. We have stopped He Puapua, which set New Zealand on a path of racial separatism, because we believe in one standard of citizenship for all New Zealanders, regardless of when you arrived here. We are now into phase two of the COVID-19 inquiry, which will rework the utterly inadequate terms of reference which we inherited. Sport New Zealand will be updating its guiding principles to ensure that we have fair competition above woke values being signalled, and we are sorting out the marine and coastal areas Act so that we can get back to a solution we had when every coastal iwi agreed to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1a89eb3080f45d1af7c0f98f78c76b3\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: What has the coalition Government achieved so far in restoring law and order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f317ee7d-f040-44ec-8f2f-ad0a9f206d75\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251e526266e5a445c89d593d0355b662d\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022756483329d704171830c3633e7da2d67\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Willie Jackson says \u201CNothing\u201D. He\u2019s talking about any common-sense idea he might evince. We are empowering our police and courts to hold criminals to account. Gang membership is now an aggravating factor during sentencing. Instead of giving money to the gangs, we are coming down hard on them, because M\u0101ori are the greatest victims of them. We are heading towards 500 more front-line police on the streets. A surge in applications\u2014[Interruption] Instead of hearing cheering over there because they pretend to be for law and order, they\u2019re jeering. Well, as they say, they came to jeer, but they\u2019ll be starting to cheer. A surge in applications and expanding recruitment wings is also a signal that our Government is serious about law and order and putting\u2014even you\u2014victims first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d059669fda494840a748e6d70deb5054\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve got those concerns, but none the less, Jenny Marcroft.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fc4ed994a3a462d8b7ef374b2ef9c61\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: How is the coalition Government supporting workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fe0fa53b9fd4e8798fd26bbde3b9ca6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: This is a Government for working people, because some of us know what hard work looks like. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c92cb3354fd43eca944a0c7a060b03e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. Hold on. Wait on. A reasonable amount of interjection is always acceptable, but not that sort of barrage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249234988b7a3475b9bf7418559913eb6\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Can I start again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223aac54013934068873649ce2c113296\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, of course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227481b3649e264675a421fe97732b928d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. This is a Government that understands working people; understands their concerns, their hopes, and their dreams, and those forgotten hard-working Kiwi battlers are on our mind. We have extended the Apprenticeship Boost scheme through to June 2028. They didn\u2019t. The accredited employer work visa is now geared towards filling high-skilled roles that help our New Zealand economy. The Government is committed to and delivering moderate increases on the minimum wage, set, of course, by you know who, not there. The Government is backing our workers, be they blue-collar or white-collar workers. Today, we are celebrating\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022aed260be-c954-464b-bb75-85579e53d05a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f79e59215f74393b5f696b54082c748\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ve laid off all the white-collar workers in this city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222a4f23ab1ba46c293747f2b957961c9\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: This is great news; hear it in silence. Today, we are celebrating over 16,000 Kiwis getting into work and off the jobseeker benefit from July to September this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f312ef04689242b198b5514212b65c2e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: 55,000 went to Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b71d97813874521a254d591312c0c78\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, 16,000. And, last of all, this coincides with a 133\u00A0percent increase in\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fac85a3eb1a4f939a166f4bf9a60094\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a patsy question!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c0fe3fef99649e58d00ce7ac88dcbd7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, look, I want you to hear this, so keep quiet while I\u2019m answering it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022566edd53ca7d45a7bcb7f50905ca992f\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Well, keep reading, matua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279f59e9e07724eeca029e60a12598c9c\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I know you\u2019re not concerned about the workers; that\u2019s why you\u2019re shouting. This coincides with a 133 percent increase in benefit sanctions being issued from just 11 months ago\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209627c45d22d46d5907e21f152564dc7\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019d think that after 40 years you\u2019d learn how to read properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff80352f3a1e44b1aedc525c6600b4b1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which shows they are working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220425b3b19bc4b6e9e3799707157a1de\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. That\u2019s absolutely enough, particularly those sort of comments, with all due respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022676b0bc5-331b-4818-b261-ecf892d0bf23\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3c0be8cdf604cd49455031f321d2e5a\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: What are this Government\u2019s plans for much-needed essential infrastructure like Marsden Point?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211d0fe1d03814342a23dcf35610ded79\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: This is a Government that understands the vital need for our country to invest in our infrastructure. Critical infrastructure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022960af18e4cfa40228e9669ae6aaf8c2c\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: New Dunedin Hospital!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221760ca59137542d794ce046016c73479\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, starting a hospital plan and blowing the cost out way over what it was budgeted for is not a plan\u2014it\u2019s irresponsibility. Look, be patient; help is on its way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ede7830b6be461389b61cb111b4bc80\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, we\u2019re going to hear the rest of this answer in silence, from both sides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ce2ef2c65d54d148ea234c04fe66a40\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s all good news, but critical infrastructure like Marsden Point, that was allowed to covertly and secretly be shut down against interests of this country, is being seriously focused on at this point in time. We are trying to get past the crisis that we are facing in stoppages because of what we think may be contaminated fuel because of our lack of access to what we once had when we were a world-leading country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002239e251e02631475b88a9ca9a8d3a3802\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022 data-id=\u00226f180fb56a69481484365c28ca140cc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f180fb56a69481484365c28ca140cc7\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What information source or sources is she using for her claims about what the evidence shows regarding Te Ahu o te Reo M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7bc0dd53fa3429f807d8a16e184ad86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7bc0dd53fa3429f807d8a16e184ad86\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The Ministry of Education advice, an independent evaluation, and provider completion data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbac4673265b4f3ab453b7140959418a\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct, then: the Minister, who said Te Ahu o te Reo M\u0101ori is a very expensive, poorly performing contract; or the 87 percent of participants who said the programme helped them to build the confidence they needed to use te reo M\u0101ori in the classroom, and the 77 percent who said it supported them to apply tikanga in educational contexts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7cb339ccc54b9592608904b94d29a1\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve no doubt there are some people who did the course and very much enjoyed the course. But as a steward of public money, when we spent $100\u00A0million and only 60 percent of people completed the course, and when it was 2.3 times more expensive than comparable courses, as someone in charge of public money, it\u2019s important for me to look at this from a systems perspective. The quantitative data showed that that was not good value for money and we can contract much better in the future, and we will.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b0ea7b8700342debd6aa718a57419a0\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What evidence is she using to discredit the programme when the evaluation report says that Te Ahu o te Reo\u2014[Interruption] He\u2019s talking during question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293f195632ee0445bbea02a6e7be8ab9a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, he is, and he knows that it\u2019s not\u2014[Interruption] No, you\u2019re not telling me what to do\u2014OK. Don\u2019t interrupt the questioner. Carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e56634d012b49198fe58f9903c628d4\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What evidence is she using to discredit the programme when the evaluation report says, \u201CTe Ahu o Te Reo M\u0101ori has engaged a cohort of exceptional providers to deliver this initiative. Combined, these providers have an extraordinary level of experience and expertise in the development and delivery of high-quality M\u0101ori language programmes. Participants were nearly unanimous in their glowing reviews of providers and their programmes, with most noting the providers\u2019 outstanding skills in delivering engaging and effective learning content.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c0a1013ca624de5a4364a0429a54487\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: There are two kinds of data: there is qualitative and quantitative. That member might like to focus on the qualitative data, but the quantitative data is also very important. When something is 2.3 times more expensive than a similar course\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228ceffa03a504a1a985102c3a5ef37d4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, hang on. You can\u2019t just ask for an elucidation on a question you\u2019ve just asked without listening to the answer. If we can just have a little bit of decorum so we can make some progress. Start the answer again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226517922f2c914a228f8739b293a6a7c3\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: There are two types of data: quantitative and qualitative. The evaluation report was unable to have much quantitative data in it because of the poor contracting. There were some people who said that they liked the course\u2014no doubt\u2014but, overall, when you are spending $100\u00A0million of public money, the quantitative data about how many people finished the course, and what types of people were doing the course and how expensive the course is, is very important to take into account, which is why when we recontract in the future, we will make sure that we get much better value for money. Because $100\u00A0million of public money is not a small amount, and $40\u00A0million of that public money was spent on people who did not complete the course, and that is an important consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f37fcf0f674439f8c7ab30ebf3bb564\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What evidence is she comparing Te Ahu o te Reo M\u0101ori to when she says that the course was 2.3 times more expensive when there are no other courses that are the same or even similar?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226d1fa6ffcb7419f9dfe42fd8f85b055\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I received advice from my Ministry of Education officials, who said that comparable courses are 2.3 times cheaper than what was contracted under Te Ahu o te Reo M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293f09b6a3fd941f8ad5026c8a71a6580\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What evidence does she rely on to say whether or not pronouncing M\u0101ori names and using everyday common phrases is an acceptable level of proficiency?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222be2b5d0b5cf4303953662afc4a8bac4\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: When I made those comments, I said that those things are important to me as an education Minister. I want teachers to use everyday, commonly used M\u0101ori phrases in their teaching, and I want them to be able to pronounce M\u0101ori names correctly. That is important to us, which is why, in the future, we will recontract this, but we will do so with much better contracts, making sure we are getting good, quantitative data reporting and good evaluative frameworks built into those contracts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221ebd1031-ea10-4c3d-bb56-2cd99528ae91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cfaa5752528498da19f9e1854be4dca\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Is she actually committed to achieving 1 million New Zealanders speaking te reo M\u0101ori by 2040 when she slashes funding for one of the very programmes that the evidence shows will help achieve this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dd559bf14a747099b86da4c1f26d8dc\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, which is why this Government has invested heavily in te reo M\u0101ori. In fact, for the very first time, this Government has invested in a phonics check and decodable resources which have never existed before, provided free of charge by the Ministry of Education to kura kaupapa and r\u016Bmaki units. We\u2019re also providing all of the p\u0101ngarau\u2014mathematics\u2014resources free of charge in te reo M\u0101ori. We\u2019re also making sure that kura kaupapa is included in network provision for the first time in the country\u2019s history, and investing $100\u00A0million in kura kaupapa property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254bab69342d3473cb914add9e691e555\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203ff19ccf06840c1b7bd42e54a699744\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I at least call you? Would that be OK? The Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213de7895bf1348c98973aa816156c325\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbc7659ba7fc4c619239452d655640da\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No worries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b880bab26434c538e24f16230ab6ec0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask the Minister as to whether it\u2019s a fact that there is a record number of M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori learning M\u0101ori online?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e2df5ff18d640d1b49a8ff7f09f6176\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: That is a fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d54e5d31abe341a5a5c947d5ae6fafe4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022 data-id=\u002265c7fc9c66ce4246bbfc26052a34f551\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265c7fc9c66ce4246bbfc26052a34f551\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What update can she provide about the Ministerial Inquiry into School Property?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022249cebd790d04f2f99a1cc379b1aa6aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022249cebd790d04f2f99a1cc379b1aa6aa\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier this month, the Government released the inquiry\u2019s report, which came in early and under budget. It\u2019s confirmed we inherited a struggling system with a pipeline of unfunded school upgrades that weren\u2019t able to be delivered. The report found the ministry\u2019s processes are bureaucratic and inefficient, its internal governance structures for property investments are not robust, funding decisions lack transparency, and its organisational structure does not provide the right level of focus or accountability. This resulted in a huge loss of confidence in the system and significant uncertainty for school communities, and we\u2019re fixing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022140ccb3507884d0cb291404874e516dd\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to respond?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de3988ea6a844eaf8854eaac55385de5\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Even before the report was finalised, we took decisive action to sharpen school property delivery. I instructed the ministry to improve communications with schools and focus on offsite manufacturing solutions. In the first six months of this year, 72 percent of additional classrooms entering construction were being delivered as offsite modular builds, compared to the 18 percent which were delivered in the same period last year. The ministry has also completed a value-for-money review to ensure a much more fiscally responsible approach has been taken using repeatable designs, modular builds, and a reduced number of bespoke designs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d08420c8a466403ab1a776bf78da8808\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What are the Government\u2019s next steps?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f55c694bc7ad43c380d9bfc46f5c6add\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: We are working at pace. We\u2019re in the process of appointing a functional chief executive with infrastructure expertise who will be responsible for operational aspects of school property, who will report to me; a new independent investment panel is also being stood up to provide expert advice on future property decisions; and a new entity for operational school property will be considered in coming months. Schools deserve transparency and predictability; taxpayers deserve value for money; and our tamariki deserve warm, dry classrooms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229634e377-7e76-4353-9662-fb444eb2ec9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022327affcd2f184f878cee2216f877835b\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she received?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285f34b49e28d4f47b7ec28442114f3dd\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: A principal said this inquiry is long overdue. There are some truly dire stories out there of mouldy, damp classrooms, and, at the other end of the scale, there are rebuilds and new builds that are just over the top, and we need balance. An architect who\u2019s designed over 100 schools said, \u201CGreat job. You\u2019ve hit the nail on the head. The focus should be on delivering safe spaces that children can learn in, to a budget, with a low level of maintenance, and it\u2019s totally possible to procure schools faster and better than the current process and ensure that results are cost-effective.\u201D This Government is committed to delivering just that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228b6f1e52bd124713a32f93cb0d30d873\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022 data-id=\u002259da2a40097440669354877e483afc17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259da2a40097440669354877e483afc17\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: Why is the Government developing military-style academies as a sentencing response before the pilot has finished and before a full evaluation has assessed their impact on the children participating?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022 data-id=\u00221eac0a8d7ed24826b17bc8a6f40e472d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221eac0a8d7ed24826b17bc8a6f40e472d\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Because this Government cares about these young people and we want to give them every opportunity possible to succeed and turn their lives around. I feel privileged and proud to have met with these young people. I have seen the difference that this pilot has already made in terms of their confidence and their belief in themselves, and I can\u2019t wait to see more young people get this opportunity. I invite the member and all members in this House to join me in supporting these young people to succeed, rather than willing them to fail. We can\u2019t wait any more for more reports. These young people can\u2019t afford for us to wait.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d32080226ec24a87917c5b1bc91359f2\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: How many young people remain in the pilot programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc5de3b561914bf2b92291c186c363b8\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: There are 10 young people in the pilot programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1e1f12907a742dea956d97e3fd36915\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: How can it be 10 young people remaining in the pilot when it was publicly reported on 13 August that one person had dropped out of the boot camp already?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e9da66327434598ade6b93714842be8\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Because one extra young person who put their name forward was accepted to join the pilot programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022189a2f93da7c48b28ed7190f04b37c85\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the original 10 young people that were a part of the pilot project remain in the pilot?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281fbe0dc3ba24e2b8e2972cb9b945b43\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Nine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231dc9c171e75408580ed4235936add00\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister explain the role of the intensive mentors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293ef13f66bac42678521cf139ca30b3d\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The mentoring component of this pilot programme is the biggest part of the programme. We know that these young people need that support. The mentoring component has been a crucial element in helping these young people build positive relationships. This is how I know we can bring this pilot programme forward, because I am seeing the difference that this programme is already making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223acedc20b02445f7b5073cf1ba3f878d\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she proceeding with her boot camp experiment when already one child has dropped out, representing a 10 percent failure rate of her experiment? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fa5d0e98c56416793006aa3472fdb67\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just remind people that silence when a question is being asked lasts all the way to the end of it. The Hon Karen Chhour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022679f533a98624ea3bd67c4ddebe5dfe0\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think I\u2019ve made it very clear in my first answer that I have seen the difference that this pilot programme has made to these young people\u2014their confidence and their belief in themselves, and just the change is inspirational. I\u2019d like to thank all the staff, all the agencies, who had a role to play in this, who came together for the betterment of these young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b91ac3a7dddc4c4f90444c508069db68\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What update can the Minister provide on the community stage of the\u00A0pilot?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c137a5c913f453aba520f8e70ec1bf5\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: From the outset, the military academies pilot had been designed with the transition back into the community in mind. Each young person has received a detailed transition plan to help their reintegration back into the community and ensure that they have every chance of success. This is a major difference from previous programmes, like the Military-style Activity Camp programme, and the majority of the pilot is actually about the community phase rather than the in-residence phase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253958f14-2b54-4d1c-bfac-7b3ea85e1c2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c384dc30f7142b28fe1cd7b8f3445f3\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: How can she look survivors of abuse in State care in the face and say \u201CSorry\u201D next month while at the same time ploughing ahead with unevaluated and unevidenced military-style boot camps that they want gone?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002286ae9a20-33bd-4912-8dc1-5b4eb670be44\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e707520d64e4fd096f108c8a5d43679\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: This pilot is completely different to the boot camps that were mentioned in the royal commission report. These were run decades ago with untrained staff, no proper oversight, and in an isolated setting. I\u2019m kind of disappointed that we are using the survivors of abuse in State care for political gain instead of actually supporting these young people to be as successful as they possibly can. This is comparing apples with oranges\u2014apples with oranges. For an evidence-based party, I am disappointed in you comparing apples with oranges. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb8c355e3960465e964f89e0d6cd4364\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Listening to that barrage, could we suggest to you that maybe we do a few courses on how the House should be run and how MPs behave. If you want to compete, then put your mind together, get some understanding of that, and not just shout out like a sick idiot every time you don\u2019t agree with something. It\u2019s going on every day. I\u2019ve never seen the House like this in my time here, because back in a former time when it was a contest of ideas, we understood that. But these people are so woke that if they don\u2019t agree, they\u2019re just offended, and then they make noise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214d43a4aacf4704a2898942e74b78d4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK\u2014thank you very much for that. I\u2019d just point out that I\u2019m not responsible for who the voters send to this House, but the electors to this House would most certainly have an expectation of a high level of decorum in the conduct of our proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224406e78277a344059bd15bd07317d661\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b0bb2dc1855409485c77d83c9e9a176\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I was in the middle of talking about something. It\u2019s exactly what we\u2019re talking about. Just wait till people have finished talking. Now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216469c961c6d447b926bf91ab4dd4bc9\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Seems like my timing wasn\u2019t too wrong, but I just wanted to raise quite a serious issue. There was some quite, what I thought, unparliamentary language referring to members opposite to him, calling them \u201Csick idiots\u201D. I think that\u2019s pretty disgusting and I just want raise with you what I think is the Deputy Prime Minister\u2019s lowering of standards in this House. I could quote about five Speakers\u2019 rulings that he has broken throughout this week, and I think this is setting a pretty low bar in terms of the kind of name-calling that we\u2019re expecting in this place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238e92efbe93f4bb5b8c9f48b71538ac9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker. If you want to raise a point of order, get the facts right first and don\u2019t get up and say what someone didn\u2019t say. Go and listen to the parliamentary record and the member will know, for the umpteenth time, he\u2019s not understanding how this House is properly run.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bceb9f7c6af744fd8da9b56dc785f731\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: As usual in these cases, I will look at the Hansard and make a determination about whether or not the Standing Orders or Speakers\u2019 rulings have been breached.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002204fec0f6dc95477eb1b8e6917071387c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Veterans\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022 data-id=\u002285311a63d19849579cf7b48de8540ca1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285311a63d19849579cf7b48de8540ca1\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Veterans: What recent announcements has he made regarding Anzac Day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022 data-id=\u00228a17e00119504b6c80237faff3b33088\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a17e00119504b6c80237faff3b33088\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Veterans):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Government is making changes so that more veterans who have served New Zealand will be formally recognised as part of official Anzac Day commemorations. What many people don\u2019t realise is that, as a matter of law, Anzac Day currently doesn\u2019t commemorate the contribution that New Zealand forces have made in conflict since 1966, which was when the Anzac Day legislation was last updated. The final conflict mentioned in that Act is the Vietnam War. The Government is doing something about this by progressing a bill to amend the Anzac Day Act so that the day will officially recognise those who have taken part in more recent operations, including our peacekeeping forces, as well as those from previous wars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211a7925f65f841fd9ad1ff4088b09259\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: How has Anzac Day evolved over time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a88b8794d2d47828a300298bfa86ff1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Anzac Day commemorations were originally designed to commemorate those who had fallen at Gallipoli. Kiwis are grateful for the courage, comradeship, and commitment of men and women of the services, not only of the past but also, of course, the present, and Anzac Day is of course one of the key ways that we are able to express that as a nation. The service personnel of today are part of a long and proud tradition therefore, and so we think it\u2019s important to acknowledge that all of those who have served New Zealand in time of war and other operations be officially recognised, and it is appropriate to do that through amending the Anzac Day Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ceef2b9a55b44f4ba963549246e12fc\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: When will the changes to the Act take place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c78cb79eb50b4c23ae24281fc4532d5f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re keen to make these changes as soon as possible. The Anzac Day amendment bill will be introduced to the House prior to Anzac Day of next year, and then pass into law ahead of Anzac Day 2026. I\u2019d like to acknowledge with thanks the support of my colleague and friend the Hon Paul Goldsmith as Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, in whose name the bill will currently sit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022071f7800-2755-41b6-83df-07ebaf867ae2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275a7404f70734f75902087816dd5297b\u0022\u003ETim van de Molen\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the recognition of veterans important?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f96cdca1-b63c-4602-b2b3-276f58ebb518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2e0f19806de4780b0b7520634ddd147\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Veterans often tell me that recognition is the most meaningful form of thanks, and I suspect that colleagues across the House have probably heard similar sentiments expressed to them as well. Serving their country has come, in many cases, with great personal sacrifice that can never be fully repaid, but recognising the service personnel through official commemorations like Anzac Day does, of course, go some way indeed. I\u2019m also looking forward to progressing other initiatives in due course alongside fellow Ministers and other veterans-supporting organisations such as the Royal New Zealand Returned Services Association, to ensure that we can better recognise the contributions of all those who have served New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002292631bc9f48a4138918bee43996d0d02\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002264594f13989c492eb3fcb7143a56ed1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002264594f13989c492eb3fcb7143a56ed1e\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Police: Does he stand by his statement that it was \u201Cnothing new\u201D for Police resources to be distributed according to the Government\u2019s priorities; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022 data-id=\u002214af8cbed17240559d237f0328226c20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214af8cbed17240559d237f0328226c20\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E The member\u2019s characterisation of that statement is not factual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022341ebb6ffd414ec8bba84940bcf376f3\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Did he ask for Police to increase numbers on the ground in Auckland CBD in order to counter retail crime and public disorder?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ff13d4857f04057ac8d798b26748c65\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f15f9b91da943829ca42448c37ef3e3\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Was it his expectation that Police staff would be redeployed from neighbouring Police areas into Auckland CBD?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022817bb6b1699b4671b59edf9b54be4bf1\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: It is my expectation that the Police and the commissioner will always operate with complete operational independence and decide where staff are deployed, and that\u2019s exactly what they do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220816f945a04341029af68ff197f7b786\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that Police consider that operational staff have been \u201Cring-fenced\u201D and not able to be deployed to demand, therefore creating a crime displacement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbeeaed9eff745d995114fc6352e2608\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I mean, I haven\u2019t seen any of those statements. I\u2019m not sure where the member is getting that from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229665d04eb4c2413694f03ff3000ea7e9\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Palmerston North Police Association delegate at yesterday\u2019s conference correct when he said, \u201CThere is fear among officers that the Government gang disruption units will mean that other crimes that had been priorities for Police, such as family harm, will be forgotten.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0c1b163fb3f408a81e9924d1fa20141\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: He absolutely raised a genuine concern, and I was able to allay those concerns by saying that this Government takes all forms of crime and violence in the community seriously, and we\u2019ve got a big piece of work to deal with family and sexual harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212aaae6311754385b8c1e8d574f59f7d\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Police Association representative from South Canterbury, who said yesterday, \u201CThere is an increased fearfulness that rural policing is being hung out to dry as officers were redeployed into urban areas.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8ce7f6fcfc548f3a75ff6cf7c5342a8\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I listen to everything that front-line police officers tell me. I spend a lot of time on the ground, getting around and seeing them, and I have to say that the job that our rural police are doing is outstanding, and they get great support from their provincial colleagues. I\u2019ve seen an increase in the operations that the police are running to protect rural communities, especially those with boy racers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cca5691e91e14fc3930911ab1cd83e7a\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that there is a growing view within New Zealand Police that politics is directly influencing operational deployment decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3d01034938b4cd3baf05cd6690d2699\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t. I think there\u2019s a growing view within our police service that we\u2019re getting back to basics, that they\u2019ll be given the tools, and they\u2019ve got a Government that supports them, to get out there and actually do their job, roll up over the top of gangs, start to suppress boy racers, and get on top of violent retail crime. They know that this Government is supporting them to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5d7c5bb51a74cb896915ed27c518edd\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is there a growing view within front-line police officers that it\u2019s pretty good to have a police Minister who backs them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248a02a21-c1ac-4159-8789-485ad614bd01\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ae6eeb0c94e4292b797b0e915450d7e\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s a very good question. Look, our police service know that they have got a police Minister and a coalition Government that actually backs them and wants them to be successful and is making sure that we give them the powers to be able to go out there and do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f5345a0c4134ae0914ed8c21e483cf0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014RMA Reform\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022140138d5e0674b29a165a3eae45ba1d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022140138d5e0674b29a165a3eae45ba1d3\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister responsible for RMA Reform: How does he justify his proposed inclusion of projects in the Fast-track Approvals Bill that have previously been denied by the courts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022c05a0b2126cd408e8ac549256c2f6f99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c05a0b2126cd408e8ac549256c2f6f99\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform):\u003C/span\u003E The Fast-track Approvals Bill, which is currently still before the Environment Committee, will facilitate delivery of infrastructure and development projects with significant regional or national benefits. Where projects have previously been declined by the courts, they will have been considered under different Acts\u2014for example, the Resource Management Act (RMA), the exclusive economic zone Act, or the Conservation Act\u2014which all contain their own particular tests. That should not preclude them from being considered under the Fast-track Approvals Bill, which has its own particular legal test. It\u2019s important to note that under New Zealand\u2019s planning system, applicants who have had proposals turned down by courts are fully within their rights to amend those proposals and try again. The other thing to note is that listing projects in Schedule 2 of the bill does not automatically grant approvals for those projects. Expert panels will still need to consider the substantive applications against the tests in the final version of the Act. To help address this concern, Cabinet has agreed that applicants will be required to include information on previous decisions by approving authorities, including previous court decisions, in their applications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022333efb8b2f9c46f6a13248043fae799f\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: Why did Cabinet choose the fast-tracking of projects previously declined by the courts on environmental grounds, like dams and seabed mining, over projects like hospital developments for Nelson, Tauranga, Hawke\u2019s Bay, Whang\u0101rei, W\u0101naka, and Palmerston North?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022702d8d56cb7f465aba245f9ef68372df\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s the Government\u2019s view that we can do a lot when it comes to the projects that are in the bill. It\u2019s not to say that there may not be other projects in the future. I don\u2019t want to preclude the final decision making of the select committee when the bill has not yet been reported back to the Parliament, but the Government has recommended that there will be the ability for the Minister for Infrastructure to refer projects in the future into the fast-track process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e17f868310e3495bae44d4deb6ab2f17\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to the people of Waimate, who have been engaging in an Environment Court process to stop the Project Kea waste-incineration-to-energy plant and have now had this process undermined by it being included as a fast-track - listed project?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224267dfae8224eee828cefaf18021078\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, without commenting specifically about that particular project, I\u2019m surprised to hear that the Greens are now opposed to the conversion of waste to energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002262828428-6565-42b4-bd4d-fa3b12531f88\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e72dbb43679049be92333b1a3f024ce4\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Does Parliament have the right to make laws like fast-track to make it easier to deliver infrastructure and housing, and, if so, is replacing the Resource Management Act with a system based on property rights, as stated in the ACT coalition agreement, another example of this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a9bb9bce1a40cdae82878d3cc5560c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Minister may like to answer briefly, but that is quite wide of the wicket as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ba9a06e6bc2486a9ce3343fe3585571\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Successive Governments have realised that the RMA and, indeed, things like the Wildlife Act and the Conservation Act are outdated and are not keeping pace with the level of economic development this country needs to grow, the houses we need to build, and the infrastructure we need to create for the future. That\u2019s why the previous Government had two versions of their own fast-track regime legislation. That\u2019s why this Government is doing its version of it as well, whilst we go forward with a replacement regime for the RMA that better recognises the balance between the development of our resources and our infrastructural needs with the environment. A myopic focus on the adverse effects on the environment of development projects means that, ultimately, it is too hard to do things. This Government is redressing that balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e173775bbbb94a79813a40297b440221\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Was it appropriate or fair for the then candidate and now MP for Waitaki, Miles Anderson, to tell the local Waimate community at a \u201Cmeet the candidate\u201D meeting that he shared their opposition to the waste-incineration-to-energy plant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226491936b104d4710933465e026f9262f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have any responsibility\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232433426b2044a5abd7a6ab1966b58b0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, firstly, I would point out that the Minister has absolutely no responsibility for what a candidate might say\u2014and I\u2019m sure most party leaders would be happy with that ruling. Does the member want to use that question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b672bd5cce9c4f71a677a2f25f1f2fc7\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfa54b1c248e4f96a2a7c83ceafde81e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, just a minute. Just to be clear: this is part of your allocation but you\u2019re not losing one for the question that hasn\u2019t been answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022764c57a5c5ba4ac4833b627d586e6ffa\u0022\u003ELan Pham\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister take personal responsibility for any environmental damage that occurs if projects that have previously been declined by the courts are now able to go ahead, and, if not, who will?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ce5c81a3b2e4a359f0aae021e1aa771\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not the way our legal system works or indeed our ministerial system. But the point I\u2019d make in a general sense is that the Government is proposing that Parliament list 149 projects. Those projects will then be referred to an expert panel. The expert panel has the ability to decline those projects\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211ac2a38d1284ee9bd09f87fa937e80b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, just a minute. You want to have that conversation? Have it outside of the House. Start again, Mr Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a9cfde1c6434528908312acf1c7c725\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I was just making the point that the Government has recommended 149 projects for referral to the expert panels. The expert panels will have the ability to decline those projects, but the expert panels will also be required to apply environmental conditions to the permitting of those projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222794ead56af1402ca2fa1b8e60908085\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the Waimate waste-to-energy project is the first large incineration project proposed in New Zealand; and that it was referred to the Environment Court at the request of the council so that the complex issues relating to greenhouse gas emissions from burning plastics could be properly considered, including with input from environmental organisations and locals, neither of whom will have a right of appearance before the fast-track panel?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274ad948dc3984a2e9aa67c57dfa3721a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, in a general sense, and I\u2019m sure that some of the factors that the member is talking about will be considered by the expert panels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225bf71f424c6e48969bc305e2ed70491b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u002233f2a5c1f29e4bf2a47dc31784084860\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233f2a5c1f29e4bf2a47dc31784084860\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What recent announcements has the Government made regarding the Confirmation of Payee service?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4855847283c48b9a85eba8a824e3e5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4855847283c48b9a85eba8a824e3e5c\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I am pleased to share that, last week, the banks responded to my direction that I set out earlier this year and agreed to enhance protection of their customers by introducing a confirmation of payee service. Confirmation of payee allows customers to verify that the account name matches the account number, providing a crucial safeguard against scams like investment fraud where money is sent to fake business accounts. It also helps prevent common errors where people mistakenly send payments to the wrong account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e190c99ba7044dd1972187ce13a09001\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: What is the time line for rolling out this service, and how will it be introduced? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ecfd7328a0e448da0787e2ea20ec11d\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: In February of this year, I instructed the banks to report back to me by the end of September and I\u2019m pleased to confirm that they have delivered. The roll-out of the confirmation of payee service will begin next month and will be in place across 13 banks by Easter 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b4b98eec36e451c8dd2be2c11ed2065\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: How will the confirmation of\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc1dfbd3a07f4aef8cad708d156e15a1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait a minute\u2014OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a4049b017ab433d86de926450669064\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: How will the confirmation of the payee system improve payment security for individuals and businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222255e04933bf4dc18283b0d6e0b580cd\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: The confirmation of payee system adds an extra layer of protection by verifying the payee\u2019s name matches the account number before a payment is made. As members of this House will know, investment scams are a common form of scam, and it is one that is personally devastating to many people. Now customers will be able to check that the name of the bank account matches the information they\u2019ve been provided with before they make a payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df08d6ebd3ac4be5a628eab40631139a\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: How does this service compare to similar systems in other countries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eec6f5bfa6e44e490e2af7efa72ace4\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand\u2019s confirmation of payee system follows international best practice and is similar to what has been implemented in the United Kingdom and Australia. Both countries have seen significant reductions in scams and errors. By way of example, the UK reported a 31 percent reduction in bank transfer fraud within the first few months of its implementation. I\u2019m pleased that New Zealand banks will soon be catching up with the rest of the world, and Kiwis will benefit from enhanced modern security systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0a52a752ca14f57bee047b858dba1ad\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Foreign Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002246c6c3bdb7c9402f916d26d1db1eb4cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246c6c3bdb7c9402f916d26d1db1eb4cb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Was New Zealand asked to co-sign the letter from 104 United Nations member States in support of the UN Secretary-General Ant\u00F3nio Guterres after he was declared persona non grata by Israel; if so, did he or his office have contact about this issue with other Government party leaders or their offices prior to New Zealand\u2019s decision about whether to co-sign it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u002220de0c249abe4051a5ba2cc03b499ac3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220de0c249abe4051a5ba2cc03b499ac3\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E New Zealand made a public statement on 14 October which included the following quotes: \u201Cdeclaring diplomats persona non grata, is precisely the wrong direction \u2026 New Zealand supports the role of @antonioguterres, as UN Secretary-General, to travel widely around the world to support peace and prosperity and foster dialogue and understanding.\u201D, and \u201CWe regret Israel\u2019s decision to declare the Secretary-General persona non grata.\u201D As for the letter, my understanding is that it was circulated in New York to all UN member States. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade judged that it was preferable that New Zealand express our views on the issue in our own voice and make our own statement of support of the UN Secretary-General. And that is what we did and this is what it looks like. [Holds up printed statement.] And it went out, so that\u2019s the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205dd0e0c83444f6c8ec84fe341aff7a6\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t New Zealand\u2019s failure to sign the letter in support of the UN\u00A0Secretary-General made worse by the recent bombardment by Israel of the UN peacekeeping mission on the Israel-Lebanon border?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb137e8c40194374889b360b11dea5d4\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re dealing with the issue of the letter that was co-signed by a number\u2014and dare I say it, at the beginning it looked like there weren\u2019t many signatories to it. By that time, I had already commissioned the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade to put our own statement out, which is what I\u2019ve just shown you now. That is an ancillary matter that\u2019s happened, about which we\u2019ve also made a public statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd7218bb61184f76abf682a87d6653c2\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he not progressing formally recognising Palestine six months after he said it was a question of when, not if, given that like-minded countries, including Spain, Ireland, and Norway, have since done so?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dd93ae4457144a48e0a3df4ee867be7\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Because it\u2019s one thing to make a statement because it\u2019s an aspiration, but when it doesn\u2019t have any chance of actually going into effect, the futility of that is as frustrating for the population you\u2019re concerned about as it is for everybody else.\u00A0We are not on a different page; we\u2019re just far more common sense and practically aligned. For example, I\u2019ve spoken to the foreign Ministers for Jordan, the Palestinian Authority I\u2019ve spoken to, the Egyptians I\u2019ve spoken to, the Turkish I\u2019ve spoken to, and the Gulf States\u2014a whole lot of countries have been spoken to; all aligned. But on this practical question\u2014as to when you make a statement, can it happen and can it be established, and who will be the Government\u2014there are still no answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ea1baca2dbc452eb80ca5acec594ca6\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Well then, given that the UN Secretary-General said he was \u201Cdeeply alarmed by reports that a large number of communication devices [that] exploded across Lebanon\u201D, killing, blinding, or injuring more than a thousand people, including children, what progress has New Zealand made in concluding who was likely responsible for that, given his answer to a primary question on 26 September saying it was too early to tell, and will he now condemn that barbaric act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a0ce09c4314efb91bc19557e3d582a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, when that act happened, of course, it was as a result of the people who perpetuated it being the recipients of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of rockets going on for month after month after month as though somehow there would be no consequences. The reality is we\u2019re here in New Zealand and advocating\u2014and have been for a long time, consistently across the political\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9417ac43f5b421f98c37207ef5acd82\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Are you comfortable with civilians being killed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd25896ea9ba43f29195f0c531ee8841\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we don\u2019t just make a lot of noise like that member and don\u2019t do anything about it. It\u2019s just so typical of the Green Party\u2014full of condemnation but haven\u2019t got one idea how they\u2019d help anybody, including finding one cent to help them the way we have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac3f4b3f1917443aac6967f15b1c8d48\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good\u2014that\u2019s enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eeb5ba8906049659219a343c38a3595\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: We have found millions to help them. So back to my point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022186ac02666a84804acb23b8f520eb424\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022706ec423e0584796b4d11528220e157d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: This is a serious issue and I wouldn\u2019t expect it to be the result of that sort of arrogant comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f91fa17129304e78bdec4dcf982ec54b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but you\u2019re actually calling attention to it. But carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224caf59d72c5c4a439d26749ebf5fdb1b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m bringing attention to the practical, common sense\u2014that too often in foreign affairs, people evince and evoke sentiments when it\u2019s of no practical help to the people on the ground. In the end, people on the ground want real help.\u00A0That\u2019s what we\u2019re seeking to do and have always done, and we have always consistently been, across the liberal divide and across decades, for a two-State solution, and we still are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220759c5fcbaa04d55abb1cadc7cf20fc8\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister requested or received any advice about economically sanctioning the State of Israel for its plausible genocide, and, if not, when, if ever, will Israel\u00A0face those so-called real consequences that the Deputy Prime Minister talked about?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cb273c3298e4f138606cde7689c386d\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have no intention of answering questions with judgmental statements such as \u201Cgenocide\u201D when no international body has made that allegation with any proof at this point in time at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b9caed6bc62429e98b5ae0e58997ec1\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That statement of \u201Cplausible genocide\u201D comes from the ICJ, the International Court of Justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c846d218fdd1413290ac7c14b6b145dd\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: No, it doesn\u2019t\u2014no, it doesn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f2531f2058e4f5c94e75fca4cadba22\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, there is a point of order taking place. Don\u2019t speak while a point of order is on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcc462b39fd542f9ad6b3aec3a7b98ce\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, if I may\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a5a8b84e8224238bf01bf4cc6ca0607\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you can start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d114c8b3ed04456a7b3cfab47b29400\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister\u2014the Minister of Foreign Affairs\u2014just refused to answer the question which you did not rule out of order. So, firstly, I would like your response to that and whether the Deputy Prime Minister is indeed required to answer or at least address questions. To the second\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022833f9314fbad4aed8e12fd1e7a1dd464\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I was very close to ruling it out of order, because New Zealand, of course, doesn\u2019t have an autonomous sanctions arrangement, therefore couldn\u2019t do what the member was asking for, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f61072fc971649da8558bb572d401caf\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I asked about advice and whether there had been any asked for or received by the Minister\u2019s office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225da2099cfcb144fd8c497b6f56212442\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister certainly addressed the question. Do you want to say more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a02300803f6347a784a3d3cb8fe743e0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The fact of the matter is that that member made a statement which is not backed up with international evidence, and the one she gave requires her to surely get a legal adviser in the plain language in which it was written which does not express what she said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feee03aec88c469eaa145e8c24987073\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is that the point you want to make here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257f891361b774e4bada9e8443e068845\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. That\u2019s it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e857443cff14e4ca1e79e182e3d9379\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Accepting the Minister\u2019s statement that there are barbaric acts on more than one side in this conflict, did I understand his answer to my last supplementary to be that he will not condemn the use of exploding mobile devices that blinded, killed, or injured thousands of people, including children, as a barbaric act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280e0d72032ff4cf4b525dd03098a0ac2\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: The reality is that when that member asked the question, he asked \u201CWere there other statements we made?\u201D. Well, yes, we did make statements with respect to the Israelis\u2019 improper treatment of the Secretary-General. We also reflected on\u00A0the proper concerns that happened arising from the attack which led to the UN peacekeepers in Lebanon being put in danger and risk. So we always have, and I would invite the member to follow the constant foreign affairs pronouncements, which we do on an almost daily basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8b85b6baf504dc19fdd8b0f7072bd53\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: When he was at the United Nations in recent weeks, did he express disquiet to the US about US financial and military support for the protracted and expanding war in Gaza and now Lebanon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u00226de0f3c6294446d88f8457d41bf6252e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226de0f3c6294446d88f8457d41bf6252e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I have no recollection of mentioning that. We were talking about other matters closer to home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022195734efcebd4670bcebf8ae3a0cf500\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022195734efcebd4670bcebf8ae3a0cf500\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for the consideration of the Gambling (Definition of Remote Interactive Gambling) Amendment Bill and the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002228c9f75697c74d88b0017561163512bc\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022972c65e4fd94454ca3c7d4fccc958cd7\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00227b9dce0ed0c44514b67926db29d8f01d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b9dce0ed0c44514b67926db29d8f01d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Gambling (Definition of Remote Interactive Gambling) Amendment Bill and the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002211ed4c998fdf4bde8cd38954cf49ea3f\u0022\u003EGambling (Definition of Remote Interactive Gambling) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002282cec20e444a4eb28888dedd88652ff6\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224306daf7cebb4d3fb6beca57735264f9\u0022\u003EClause 1  Title\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225518a43fe1c247b5a2fd16bed1ba7aa9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225518a43fe1c247b5a2fd16bed1ba7aa9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: We come first to the Gambling (Definition of Remote Interactive Gambling) Amendment Bill, and we begin with the debate on clause\u00A01. This is the debate on the title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022 data-id=\u0022f267536cce574e73a21ef9661b0eeda5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f267536cce574e73a21ef9661b0eeda5\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a short call on the Gambling (Definition of Remote Interactive Gambling) Amendment Bill. I do have some questions for the Minister, and I note that if we are due to take the debate in parts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de0c0a09e397422595bdc5194efb2cdb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: We have no instruction otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022500c98c53a4541aeb8c3d5ce16f91a22\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I just note that and that some of my contribution\u2014and I don\u2019t intend to make more than one contribution\u2014may be more appropriate for commentary from the Minister in the future stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EI do note that through the first and seconding readings of this bill there has been unanimous agreement across the House to support the bill, which I think is a good thing, and I just note that it responds to a policy issue that occurred during COVID times and has led us to a point where we\u2019re now putting in place some permanent legislation. I think most members of Parliament will support that. Certainly, I do, and as chair of the select committee that heard submissions, the Governance and Administration Committee, I certainly support that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EOne of the questions that has come up, which I\u2019d like the Minister to address\u2014and it may not be in this part; it may be in a future contribution, and I accept that\u2014is around the ongoing policy work to address harm minimisation. One of the suggestions that the Labour Party made during the select committee process was to look at including some harm minimisation clauses. When reading the departmental report, people will see that there is nothing that is absolutely certain in legislation or regulation or the application process for a class 3 licence to have harm minimisation practices in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b8550e1a-ed25-44a2-b0e2-b0a8d52a7a80\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is a genuine one: has she considered advice relating to harm minimisation for class 3 operators, even though there is a low risk, by making this extension permanent? We do need to acknowledge as a House that it does increase that risk somewhat. My genuine question to the Minister is twofold: what is the ongoing policy work to reflect the need for harm minimisation approaches for gambling generally, specifically related to class 3, but also did she consider the opportunity to put into the bill a clause that would address that? I appreciate that we\u2019re talking about the title so it might be later on that the Minister may be willing to make a response to that, and I\u2019m happy to be patient and wait for that. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00223cfe9370fe3f43459f317ff6a871289c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223cfe9370fe3f43459f317ff6a871289c\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of this particular bill, when we\u2019re looking at the title of the bill\u2014and, again, understanding that we are debating the title at this stage, but, again, some of these concerns and questions that we have for the Minister may be addressed in clause 4. I think when we\u2019re looking purely at clause 1 in terms of the name of the bill, I feel like \u201Cdefinition of remote interactive gambling\u201D doesn\u2019t actually do justice in terms of the content of the bill or even address some of the issues that we have highlighted up until now in both the first reading and the select committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think that in order to address some of the concerns the previous speaker, Rachel Boyack, has mentioned in terms of the ongoing work and policy work around harm minimisation\u2014but I also want to draw Madam Chair\u2019s attention and also the Minister\u2019s attention to the fact that this particular bill has had no regulatory impact statement. What isn\u2019t expressed succinctly in the title of the bill or elucidated in the title of the bill is around the permanence element of the fact that class 3 gambling operators would be allowed to operate using remote internet gambling methods permanently. I think this is sort of a step beyond the temporary permission that was granted under COVID-19 conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EFrom a title perspective, I wondered if the Minister would consider rewording in a way that highlights the key elements of this bill around the permanence and address some of the concerns that we have around the fact that by making it permanent but having no real record or real data or evidence or even regulatory impact statement around this, it\u2019s really hard for us to see the impact of this particular bill on things like harm minimisation, particularly in communities that are traditionally more susceptible to gambling, such as M\u0101ori communities, Chinese communities, and other various Asian and Pasifika communities. I think that is a really important element that we want to kind of tie into and would like the Minister to respond at this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e6f53e4864f4119be6834c4cefdcbf7\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234677eb91973448bb97c5fe9e6cfc600\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I forgot\u2014Reuben Davidson. Apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022 data-id=\u002272cd8c7eb0cf40bc8cf67e62c8377393\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272cd8c7eb0cf40bc8cf67e62c8377393\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ve been called far worse than\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022685d21362ff44b3aabdb10b43c8f20ac\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I didn\u2019t call you anything, actually, until I mentioned your name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec616c12ff8b439f87e6bde8c56825df\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: In having the opportunity to speak to the Gambling (Definition of Remote Interactive Gambling) Amendment Bill, I think that the approach should always be one of firstly ensuring that we are doing no harm. What this bill gives us is the ability to shift our support for community groups and charities that we\u2019re supporting to make sure that we support stronger communities, ultimately, so I think we do need to acknowledge that the work that these groups do is very important. As a Labour Party member, you\u2019ll be unsurprised to know that I am very familiar with the concept of a raffle, as many political parties and MPs are. They are a mandatory part of participating in democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EThe groups we\u2019re talking about here, though, are not the kinds of groups like political parties; they\u2019re non-commercial groups. They\u2019re groups like the Heart Foundation and the Coastguard. Just yesterday, I believe, in speaking to this bill, I had the opportunity to acknowledge the remarkable work that happens at the surf lifesaving clubs within the electorate of the mighty Christchurch East that I represent, as well as in many other electorates around New Zealand\u2014and I can see you looking, Madam Chair. I will get to my question regarding the specifics of this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EOne of the things that I noticed looking through the notes is some references to the damage and harm that gambling can cause to communities. I think that whilst this is a tiny bill\u2014and it is, really, a very small number of words; a tiny bill\u2014gambling can leave large bills for people who engage and are unable to manage responsibly their engagement with gambling. These bills often put people into debt spirals or into situations where they\u2019re unable to service that level of debt and they\u2019re unable to keep up with other bills in their life, not just those bills associated with the gambling activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EI think, if we look at page 5 of the parliamentary report on this, we see a note here around the Salvation Army raising some valid points, specifically around the Ministry of Health consulting on the three-year strategy to prevent and minimise gambling harm. There is a lot of work to do in this area, so the question I\u2019m getting to around that specifically is that given the lack of the ability for other parties to submit, given the short time frame, and a small number, and I believe only 15 or 16 members of the public did submit on this amendment\u2014and given the fact that the bill was first amended in 2020, in the period between when the bill was first amended and this point in time from which we are looking to extend it further, there seems to really be no meaningful insights into the impact of the shift of that activity from real-world activity into online activity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EThe suggestion and question from me is around whether the Minister had put time or thought into the idea of review clauses or further insights being made available so that the impact of this bill, both up to this point in time but also\u2014if passed\u2014beyond this point in time, can be measured and gauged to ensure that, ultimately, we come back to that first point of ensuring that the activities that we do, do no harm to the communities that we strive to serve. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022871c2c60c22a45dc8759cf320065268e\u0022\u003EClause 2  Commencement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022450d2c098f4e48dc842c29b5293a568a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022450d2c098f4e48dc842c29b5293a568a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to clause 2. This is the debate on commencement. The question is that clause 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5a4a708fe734c68bc69e7e382acb889\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5a4a708fe734c68bc69e7e382acb889\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. For clause 2, when we\u2019re looking at the commencement date, now, one of the things we have mentioned that the Minister has mentioned previously is around the time frame\u2014that the temporary nature of the existing provisions expires on 31 October 2024\u2014and is also one of the reasons why we had the truncated the select committee process where we were unable to tease some of that out. However, the first question is whether the Minister would consider, considering some of the concerns that have been brought in terms of the lack of data, rather than having the bill come in to effect on 1 November, pushing it out by three months into something like 1 February 2025 and giving a three-month grace period in which we are able to, or the communities are able to, work with the Minister on addressing some of the issues that we weren\u2019t able to tease out as a result of the limited time frame we had for this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe first question would be, then: would the Minister consider pushing that time line out a little bit, just to give a bit more time to work with the affected communities? I know that, in terms of the submissions\u2014and in terms of some of the conversations we had previously\u2014potentially, those foundations that do undertake those class 3 gambling operators currently existing and have been using the remote interactive gambling format have some data around this, but we also note that the communities themselves haven\u2019t really had a time to contribute to the development of this permanence. Would the Minister consider pushing the amendment date out by three months to have that time to be able to work with the communities on what that may look like? Noting that that is something we can still allow or we can still give the class 3 gambling operators the confidence to say, \u201CYes, you can continue doing this because we will, in effect, pass the bill. However, we will have a provision in place that allows that transition.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the first question. The second question is: I more wanted to get clarification from the Minister in terms of subclause (2) of clause 2, which is around \u201Cif the date of the day after Royal assent is 1 November 2024, the Act comes into force on that date.\u201D Essentially, my understanding is that what it\u2019s saying is that, if they fall on the same date, then it is that date, but I am curious to know from the Minister: is this a formatting or drafting reason for you to have to specify that? Presumably, subclause (1) already is clear enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223d47140bcc784d429aa2cda47e8108ae\u0022\u003EClause 3  Principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002249952c072b434991b45c6a5086e3f9bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249952c072b434991b45c6a5086e3f9bb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to clause 3. This is the debate on clause 3, \u201CPrincipal Act\u201D. The question is that clause 3 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00223096e72d31a24a0c903f434949833b2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223096e72d31a24a0c903f434949833b2c\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. When we are looking at the Gambling Act\u2014again, this is something that was highlighted in my second reading speech, and I\u2019ll be interested to hear from the Minister\u2014it is around the fact that although the bill itself is reasonably small, in terms of its broader implications within the Gambling Act, particularly when we\u2019re looking at some of the definitions of other areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EIn my speech, I pointed out definitions, particularly around our corporate society and also in terms of society, and that it also impacts and affects a number of other pieces of primary legislation, such as the Incorporated Societies Act 1908, the Charitable Trusts Act 1957, and the Companies Act 1993, as well as the Friendly Societies and Credit Unions Act 1982. One of the things around this, again, coming back to the granting in corporate societies the permanence when it comes to remote interactive gambling, is that when we are looking at the primary legislation, I wondered if the Minister has considered the broader implications it has to other sections, particularly when it comes to clause 4 of the Gambling Act in terms of definition. I think there are other definitions that it\u2019ll be good to highlight later on as part of clause 4, but I think that in this case, I really want to draw the Minister\u2019s attention and seek the Minister\u2019s advice on how that broader element\u2014and particularly those other primary Acts within the definition of \u201Ccorporate society\u201D in clause\u00A04 of the Gambling Act 2003\u2014would be affected and would, potentially, need to be reviewed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAgain, because of the fact that we had a shortened select committee process and a lack of regulatory impact statement, I simply don\u2019t know how some of these would be affected. I think that as lawmakers, it\u2019s a dangerous territory to get into when we haven\u2019t teased out the extent of the affected and related Acts in the primary Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9c1593a66424576b936194f55c11393\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9c1593a66424576b936194f55c11393\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister is just taking some advice here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u00227f10eaae9eca439f8c7764a0e413c81b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f10eaae9eca439f8c7764a0e413c81b\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister of Internal Affairs): \u003C/span\u003EThank you for your very specific question, I say to the member. Look, societies are defined in the Gambling Act, as you have rightfully identified, but, of course, incorporated societies, charitable trusts, companies, friendly societies, etc.\u2014those are definitions that are set out in the Gambling Act for gambling-related purposes. They don\u2019t automatically give any of those groups a licence. Class 3 lotteries will still require a licence, and that licence is acquired when the Secretary of Internal Affairs is satisfied that they meet those conditions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002224ca0ed13b314bb7a5b858e74a24f985\u0022\u003EClause 4  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000314\u0022\u003ESection 4 amended (Interpretation)\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e76d17ef91c84d63ae067ac610deb39c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e76d17ef91c84d63ae067ac610deb39c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: We now come to clause 4. This is the debate on clause 4, \u201CSection 4 amended (Interpretation)\u201D. The question is that clause 4 stand part\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022 data-id=\u00222c4588b66e51416296c42f6399a6e265\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c4588b66e51416296c42f6399a6e265\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227dcc743fd9b44d5bc52d9ccd30af1ed\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Just in time! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223856cc8358d840ee964a0371ec060273\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, kia ora. I\u2019d like to take a call with our Minister of Internal Affairs just to query and follow on from some of what our colleagues from the Labour Party have also raised in terms of the wider impacts that problem gambling does have on our communities, and raise, again, the truncated process that we\u2019ve undertaken with only six days available for community and for the sector to submit on. Further, in terms of the data available on the impact of class 3 gambling, we were told in the select committee very clearly by the officials that from the data available, because of the systems within the ministry, they were unable to tell the story, were unable to dig deep and understand actually how many referrals, how many brief interventions have been captured by the system available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s one of the questions that I\u2019d like to ask directly to the Minister. In terms of this amendment that we see, this ability for these operations to now be permanent within our communities: will the ministry put in place the relevant systems for data capture to be available so that we can critique the progress and, in fact, any potential impact that this form of gaming or gambling could have in our communities? This is something that\u2019s important for the Green Party, for us to be able to really examine and evaluate how this legislation is both applied but then thinking about our community groups and our clubs as they execute their raffles in the communities and take this mode of advertising and engaging with people as a fundraising mechanism. Will we establish a system that will capture data for those presenting with gambling-related harm but also the types of supports available to them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002228503e94-a5c6-4364-92b7-dc1da041fc50\u0022\u003EThis is a systems question specific to the way in which all other forms of gambling and presentations are captured. It was shared by officials that there\u2019s a narrative section in the data capture but you have to go in there and flesh it out. In terms of improvements and the way that we can look back on the implementation of this legislation, we ask the Minister: will the officials establish a system that can finally look to provide the relevant data so that we can understand the success, or, actually, the need for us to increase our focus on problem gambling - related harm in relation to remote interactive gambling now and into the future? Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00223780ddd9d5594de3a20da5ec4572fffa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223780ddd9d5594de3a20da5ec4572fffa\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E While the Minister is taking advice, I just want to take a very short call to add on to what my colleague H\u016Bhana Lyndon has mentioned. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, first of all, thank you so much, Minister, for responding to my previous question relating to the principal Act. I think that was very helpful and also very concise and clear. In terms of this, I\u2019m more interested in terms of what is considered class 3 gambling under section 27 of the Gambling Act. When we\u2019re looking at this insertion into section 4(1) when it comes to remote interactive gambling, one of the things we have heard in the second reading is that this is something that is already becoming reasonably prevalent by various charities and societies when it comes to using this sort of format, and we have heard from submitters as well. But, during the second reading, people mentioned that it only captures, potentially, 1 percent of what the class 3 gambling operators are currently working on. I think, further to what my colleague has mentioned in terms of capturing some of the data, that when we are seeing again the level of permanence here, does the Minister anticipate that there will be increasing prevalence of this, which then will be\u2014following from what my colleague H\u016Bhana Lyndon mentioned\u2014the increasing need for us to capture, specifically, class 3 gambling operator data, and in the context of their data for remote interactive gambling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAgain, we\u2019ve heard from various members in this House that this doesn\u2019t provide a potential risk or harm because it\u2019s a delayed effect, but the reason that we think it doesn\u2019t create that harm is because, currently, there is simply no data for it, partially because it was a temporary measure. When we are making something into a permanent feature and with the possibility of increased prevalence, it would be really good to know from the Minister\u2014in addition to the question that my colleague has asked\u2014whether there is anticipated need for that data capture as we are seeing more people and more class 3 operators are going to be using this particular format.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u002242fd97ab82634c2086e858de89a36c8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242fd97ab82634c2086e858de89a36c8a\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, and I thank the committee for the range of questions on harm minimisation. I believe the concern is genuine across the committee, but I don\u2019t believe it is accurate in proportion to the level of risk of gambling harm for class 3 lotteries. When consulted on this particular bill, officials from the Ministry of Health didn\u2019t indicate any concern that class\u00A03 lotteries result in harm or that any amendment would change this. When you look at some of the statistics from the Problem Gambling Foundation, a major gambling harm service provider, that they came to the Governance and Administration Committee with, they were very, very, very low statistics in terms of gambling harm. There is data that is collected, and I don\u2019t believe any more data would change that. It would be actually very resource intensive in terms of the effective use of resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also just note that the Heart Foundation, when they were submitting in the select committee, actually pointed to a very good use of technology in providing hope to people on the concern of harm minimisation, in that having online technology use with these lotteries actually provides details of the people that are using these lotteries, rather than having in-person raffles. If they\u2019re buying a ticket online, that data is captured and they are able to provide any concern to the Ministry of Health or to Health New Zealand in future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00222610e59fd69d4c619a2e9b074c75a0f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222610e59fd69d4c619a2e9b074c75a0f2\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Minister, for the response to that question. I think something that the Minister mentioned in terms of how the data is currently captured also reminded me of something else that I mentioned, which I wanted to ask the Minister about, which is the way that the remote interactive method that is currently being used is done by, for example, phone calling. One of the options is that, when you\u2019re phone calling, they\u2019re able to take payment over the phone. As you mentioned before, from the Heart Foundation\u2019s submission, we\u2019re seeing more and more people are probably finding a level of ease when they\u2019re doing that, and a level of comfort when they\u2019re doing that, because, as the Minister probably would be aware and probably use herself, sometimes we do make that phone call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EHowever, what I don\u2019t know at this stage\u2014and I\u2019d be keen to hear the Minister\u2019s advice and clarification\u2014is what is the level of privacy precautions that are currently being taken. Again, when it\u2019s something that is temporary, maybe we have given more lenience in terms of this area, but when we are making it into a permanent feature, I\u2019d be keen to know whether there is going to be more collaboration or more work done with those class 3 gaming operators around privacy concerns, particularly when it comes to people\u2019s personal information, as well as payment information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022 data-id=\u002255ed330ad15a483891eba8dbcabc6b4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255ed330ad15a483891eba8dbcabc6b4a\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister of Internal Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for his question. Look, I personally just want to caution you about my age: I don\u2019t often buy lotteries on my phone. If I ever did, it would be online. My generation don\u2019t tend to pick up phone calls too often. When you look at the statistics, 80 percent of these lotteries are actually being conducted online, which means a minority are actually taking place via\u00A0phone call, but I\u2019d also just suggest that the collection of information by private entities is the purview of those private entities, and how they capture that information is up to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EClause 4 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266f06e7e-afa8-457f-a105-048b86a13282\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227cdaa2ef73a1493a88b1e88c76e04a9e\u0022\u003EVictims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221984aca8f1f34dd3bcb2726f7bde9ea0\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002269de2873ec6a4ff0afb65e6320c485bb\u0022\u003EPart 1  Substantive amendments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223d81565ee4d44c95afd2d1cdd4f659f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d81565ee4d44c95afd2d1cdd4f659f7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill, and we start with Part\u00A01. Just let me clarify\u2014we\u2019ve got a Minister in the chair, so we can go ahead, thank you. We\u2019re starting with Part\u00A01. This is the debate on clauses 3 to 16, \u201CSubstantive amendments\u201D; and Schedules 1 to 3. The question is that Part 1 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00229635c586c4d845509b8df65c99ed017a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229635c586c4d845509b8df65c99ed017a\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E With the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill, when we\u2019re looking at Part 1, considering that there are various subparts, I want to first focus on subpart 1 of this bill and just ask the Minister a question partly around, in clause 5, new subsection (4), but also in conjunction with subsection (8).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EOne of the provisions for this bill\u2014we\u2019ve now seeing a switch of Minister in the chair; that\u2019s all good. One of the things we\u2019re seeing with this particular bill is around the fact that judges will have to have regard to the following circumstances regarding having that protection, and this is to do with litigant abuse\u2014I\u2019m looking at new subsection (4) of section 128B. One of the things I\u2019m interested to hear the Minister\u2019s advice on is around what the threshold is for some of this judgment, particularly when it comes to the threshold for a number of acts that form part of a pattern of behaviour. Now, this is a definition that is given under the litigant abuse under subsection (8) of new section 128B.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, as we all know, one of the major issues when it comes to family violence and other forms of violence, like domestic violence or even sexual violence, is the fact that it is very hard for us to determine that sort of incremental and potential microaggression throughout the different periods. I would like to know: when we are looking at how judges give regard under subsection (4), what would be the way that the judge may be able to identify patterns of behaviour, as opposed to the more clearer way of having a singular instance? For example, would the judge be able to go, based on microaggression or certain terms being used and/or the frequency of some of the terms being used? So, yes, I would really like to hear from the Minister on the judge\u2019s identification or some of the advice around the identification of patterns of behaviour over a number of acts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u002260eba726606446d08b0a09f60f9a30bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260eba726606446d08b0a09f60f9a30bc\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, I\u2019m hoping the Minister will walk us through the Amendment Paper that\u2019s been tabled. It does refer to it being technical amendments, but obviously, it having been put on the Table there, it\u2019s not tracked or anything, so it\u2019s hard to know exactly what those allegedly minor and technical drafting changes are. I\u2019m assuming it\u2019s something that the Parliamentary Counsel Office\u2019s come up with, but it would be useful if they could be identified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sure the Minister will appreciate that this bill does do something relatively significant in that whilst its intention is entirely appropriate and we\u2019re in support of the bill, what it does do is limit peoples\u2019 ability to file proceedings or take any steps, in some cases, in court in situations where there is family violence. There is a delicate balance to be struck. I\u2019m particularly interested in the Minister\u2019s view of the Government\u2019s intention as to where that line is drawn, because, trying to put it sensitively, what is an abusive use\u2014not abusive to a court, but to a person. What is an abusive use of a procedure? There are very differing perspectives on that, and whilst almost any legal proceeding is difficult, onerous, stressful, and sometimes even traumatic, that in and of itself doesn\u2019t make it an abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just wondering if the Minister can give guidance in terms of, in particular, new section 12B\u2014the key section of this legislation\u2014where that threshold will be, because I\u2019m not sure the language entirely captures it. How are we going to strike that balance between those who, rightly or wrongly, feel they\u2019ve got a point to make, whether it\u2019s accurate or not, and those who want to make that point, whilst at the same time we act protectively? Even if an action is unfounded, it may be brought for the genuine purpose of asserting an erroneously believed right, and that probably falls on the permitted\u2014not ideal, but permitted\u2014side of the line, whereas clearly the real issue is where people know full well that they have no legal right or entitlement, and the sole purpose is when you bring the action to, essentially, harass\u2014I think is one of the words that\u2019s used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAbsolutely, this is a good piece of legislation, but I\u2019m keen to hear the Minister\u2019s view on, in particular, how we expect the judges to approach that problem. For the benefit of the Minister who has been subbed in, I was just asking for a walkthrough of the Amendment Paper, as well as the other thing. Well, I\u2019ll leave those two things there, and the third point I\u2019ll come back to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002286f7d50a414544afae84ee8ec6db96b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286f7d50a414544afae84ee8ec6db96b1\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Further on from my question before, my question is around Schedule 1, which is part of Part 1\u2014so we\u2019re looking at clause 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, in terms of Schedule 1, with the transitional element\u2014and I fully agree with the previous speaker, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, that this is a good bill and that this is a necessary bill for communities, particularly when it comes to victims of family violence. However, I want to check with the Minister: in Schedule 1, clause 1, particularly around the transitional element, I would like some guidance from the Minister around the application of section 12B, and specifically clause 1(3), which is where it says, \u201Cthe Judge must only have regard to a party\u2019s conduct that occurred after the commencement.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EPreviously, I asked the Minister a question around the definition of \u201Cpattern of behaviour\u201D in subsection (8) of new section 12B, but I want some guidance from the Minister about whether that pattern of behaviour needs to have commenced only when this bill comes into effect or whether the judge is able to draw on a pattern of behaviour that occurred before but has been continued on as part of that\u2014knowing that the judge may not be able to use it, but whether the judge is able to refer to it as a continuation of a pattern of behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00227b20b10bbed34142a3bf777e37ab3bed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b20b10bbed34142a3bf777e37ab3bed\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank my parliamentary colleagues for their comments on this piece of legislation, the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EJust by way of introduction, the bill\u2019s purpose is to strengthen the courts\u2019 statutory powers to protect victims of litigant abuse in family proceedings\u2014and we\u2019re all, I think, conscious of the fact that, particularly when marriages break down or where family disputes have arisen, there can be an enormous amount of emotion. In the vast majority of cases, people resolve those outside of the court process, but often they do end up in the courts, and there are examples of when the court processes themselves can become so difficult for one or other party to cope with\u2014this legislation has been brought forward to enable the court to be able to make an order. First, they need to look broadly at the behaviour inside and out of court proceedings, focusing on the intent of the behaviour to determine whether it\u2019s litigant abuse, and then, if an order is made, the court will require a party to seek approval of the court to make any further steps in existing or new family proceedings for up to three years. The order is to bring some discipline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had a few questions raised, first, about what is meant by conduct and why the bill doesn\u2019t define it. Well, when a person applies for an order, as I said, the court is required to look broadly at behaviour in and outside of the court proceedings, focusing on the intent of the behaviour to determine whether there is litigant abuse, and so that\u2019s what is being referred to in terms of conduct. Limiting the definition of \u201Cconduct\u201D to particular types of behaviour would likely narrow it in a way that would exclude relevant behaviour and may also lead judges to focus on the form of behaviour rather than whether it is intended to abuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnother question has been raised around what litigant abuse is. Litigant abuse occurs when someone uses the court system to harass, contact, and control their victim rather than to resolve legitimate disputes. It can include things such as filing excessive, sometimes abusive, documents that require the other party to respond or attend multiple court sessions. It can also cause significant emotional and financial harm to victims. The bill defines litigant abuse as abuse to another party to the proceedings\u2014conduct that is intended to harass, annoy, or harm other parties to proceedings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EWe also have a question around the Amendment Paper, around drafting changes. The first change clarifies that the policy intent of the bill is that the judge should look at all relevant conduct when deciding whether a party is in litigant abuse. The version as reported back from the Justice Committee could be misinterpreted as excluding the conduct towards other parties in related proceedings from the circumstances, to consider whether making an order\u2014for example, conduct towards grandparents who are not part of the main proceeding\u2014and that wasn\u2019t intended. The second change shifts the definition of psychological abuse to the definitions subsection. This simplifies references throughout the bill, to avoid repetition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u0022442e1abb746d45978daa884b771d07f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022442e1abb746d45978daa884b771d07f0\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you very much to the Minister for those helpful answers to the questions already. Just further in relation to the Amendment Paper, I would be interested to know whether those were changes that were generated from the Parliamentary Counsel Office\u2014whether they were simple drafting corrections or clarifications\u2014or whether that was, in fact, departmental advice. That would be useful for us to understand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister relates to the intent of this bill and one of the main issues that has been raised\u2014by, particularly, those who advocate in family violence support services or women\u2019s refuges and those NGO spaces\u2014that particularly affects women is that there was a concern that this legislation may in fact possibly be used against the very people we\u2019re trying to help. When there are long-term spouses that are using the legal system to stalk and harass and make people\u2019s lives a misery, there was a concern that this provision could be used by the perpetrator against the victim when the victim was potentially seeking a protection order or other types of legal instruments and going through the courts to try and seek the protection of the courts. For me, it actually demonstrated how little trust the users of the Family Court or the court system have. They have like zero faith, really, in the process itself, which is very sad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EI\u2019d be really interested to know from the Minister if he\u2019d received advice about this issue, whether he has any concerns about how this new provision could be used in other contexts, and if he has any plans in fact to monitor this and to review it to understand how it is being used by the courts down the line and if he will take any steps to build that into the process. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00223f62e3a3fc0d425b9b265dc4584361aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f62e3a3fc0d425b9b265dc4584361aa\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E My question is around the scope of the breadth of this amendment. This is an amendment to the Family Court Act, and I guess that means it relates only to family proceedings. I guess the hook is the fact that abusive litigants can use other jurisdictions, and although the provisions refer to a judge, I\u2019m assuming that that\u2019s a judge in the Family Court jurisdiction. Although the Family Courts are part of the District Court, my question is whether these provisions will protect someone from, say, a civil claim in the District Court or a claim through the employment processes, including the employment court\u2014say, for a family company that employs spouses\u2014or not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the first thing, and I guess the second thing is: if not, then what? If not, then how do we protect people in other jurisdictions, because vexatious litigants are well-known for finding every way and every jurisdiction in which to file proceedings. Will this extend to the wider courts, only the District Court, or only the District Court in exercise of its family jurisdiction? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022874fdd69c046402db5209e7a734a9fe8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022874fdd69c046402db5209e7a734a9fe8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Amendment Paper 53 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b574619b5bb4372b0153b21c3302401\u0022\u003EPart 2  Consequential amendments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002292d89728a4f34c37983a0301776d2860\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292d89728a4f34c37983a0301776d2860\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 2. Part 2 is the debate on clauses 17 to 22, \u201CConsequential amendments\u201D. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5ca3809da6e43a498ecfa0e66a8eb29\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5ca3809da6e43a498ecfa0e66a8eb29\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Well, first of all, I wouldn\u2019t mind putting on record that it\u2019s extremely disappointing that the Minister of Justice didn\u2019t answer a couple of genuine questions from members, from the Hon Ginny Andersen and myself. Certainly, no objection would be made from this side of the Chamber were he to leap to his feet to answer those questions. It certainly would show good, accountable governance if he were to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EGiven that we\u2019re now talking about \u201CConsequential amendments\u201D, which also deal with proceedings of an abusive nature, including vexatious proceedings in the Family Proceedings Act and similar provisions in the Care of Children Act, I think the question still stands: what\u2019s the scope of this, and how do we ensure that this form of family violence, which is controlling and abusive behaviour, in courts other than simply the Family Court is captured? This was needed for a reason. This whole idea not of abusing the court process but abusing a participant to the court process\u2014it doesn\u2019t just sit within the family jurisdiction; it bleeds into other areas of the courts\u2019 jurisdiction. An answer to that would be appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3f720650b5a45f682aba0dbc5f0f3cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3f720650b5a45f682aba0dbc5f0f3cf\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry, I apologise to the members, I was slow to get to my feet previously, but in terms of the question around whether it applies\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddb6c33b27b7429098e1891915c9c6ba\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I thought you were a martial arts expert.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022761c1314073a44e69c6c477df98a5e63\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to other areas\u2014yes; seen better days. It won\u2019t apply to other jurisdictions outside the scope of this bill, but protections around vexatious litigation do apply in the other areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EAnother question was asked around the amendments, whether they had arisen from departmental reports or drafting instructions. My advice is that the changes came after drafting clarifications rather than departmental reports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EThe question around the issue of whether this bill would sort of capture unintended people involved in the process\u2014look, that\u2019s always a challenge in all legislation, because, in litigation, who the victim is is obviously always an argued point when you\u2019re dealing with relationship breakdowns. Humans have the capacity on all sides of arguments to act in inappropriate ways. In terms of the procedural safeguards to protect the right of justice, to prevent it being used against victims, there is the requirement for evidence that the party\u2019s conduct demonstrates both the intent and the effect of litigant abuse, and there is also judicial discretion about whether or not to make an order. So we do have confidence in the ability of the judges to recognise litigant abuse from whichever direction it comes in the given circumstance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EIn terms of how the bill will be monitored, the Ministry of Justice is responsible for the implementation of the bill, including evaluation. I think, overall, it\u2019s good practice, and I think all members of the House, across all administrations, will be conscious of the need for good stewardship of existing bills and regular assessment of their effectiveness. That will certainly be our approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u00229a7559933a3f4bd8aee91fa84da01483\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a7559933a3f4bd8aee91fa84da01483\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you for those responses from the Minister. I was looking at the regulatory impact statement which specifically refers to name suppression, and in that statement it does say that, \u201CWe assume that most adult sexual violence complainants want to keep their automatic name suppression in place [come] the trial, but that in explaining the options for lifting name suppression some will want to apply at that time, while others may choose to apply in the post-trial context.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ENow, this bill directly overlaps with another bill that is currently before the select committee, and I wanted to, I guess, get an update because the issue of name suppression and the ability for victims of sexual violence to be able to have power over whether their name is suppressed or not is a very important issue that overlaps directly with litigation abuse. I do note that we\u2019ve been surprised that the Minister has twice written to the committee asking for an extension on that particular issue. I would like to know: did he consider, when making amendments at this committee stage, whether it was possible to also make those required changes in relation to name suppression, given this is a specific bill designed to assist victims of family and sexual violence through the court process, and what are, in fact, his intentions in and around the ability for victims to have name suppression lifted through the court process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMy second question to the Minister is in relation to when the committee received submissions on this bill, the most striking thing was the deep lack of faith, particularly with the Family Court. We know that people are typically not satisfied with the court process, but specific to the Family Court, there seemed to be an inordinate amount of dissatisfaction particularly from victims who go through this process, particularly with the way they are treated through the system, and an inability for their voices to be heard. We also really heard through that process about how there was an inability for the process to be explained to victims of family and sexual violence\u2014they\u2019re simply being given a time to turn up, and whatever. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIf we are through this, turning our minds to the fact that we want to give a better victim experience through the court system, particularly for family and sexual violence victims and if we want to be able to prevent them from having the court process used as a tool to revictimise people, I would like the Minister to speak to the point, which also relates to my first point in terms of name suppression. What other actions can he do, or is he considering, alongside of this legislation that will further address the direct concerns raised through the select committee process in relation to this legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002299a6e50db7854e4b8b52d8188b9acab6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299a6e50db7854e4b8b52d8188b9acab6\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to ask for some clarification from the Minister, looking at clause 18 in subpart 1 of Part 2, around \u201CAmendment to Family Proceedings Act 1980\u201D, in particular around vexatious proceedings. The previous speaker, the Hon Ginny Andersen, has already possibly mentioned an element of this, but one of the things I would still like clarification from the Minister on is: when we are looking at this particular bill and also other aspects of the vexatious proceedings within the Family Proceedings Act, it\u2019s still within the context of behaviours or acts that are sort of, I guess, with the knowledge of the judge or with the knowledge of the court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAs we see on page 4 of the bill, particularly when you\u2019re looking at aspects outside of the proceeding and around stalking abuse, I want to get clarification or some guidance from the Minister that although he mentioned that there will be a member\u2019s bill around this\u2014and I think it might be the Hon Ginny Andersen\u2019s member\u2019s bill\u2014it hasn\u2019t really, as far as I know, based on the Order Paper, been drawn from the ballot. What is being done or what considerations are there currently, looking at litigant abuse outside of that system, particularly when it comes to stalking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022 data-id=\u002256e2aefa887c4a2493d1120f5bb55395\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002256e2aefa887c4a2493d1120f5bb55395\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. My next question to the Minister is really looking at how we can increase reporting rates for victims of family and sexual violence. If we look at particularly sexual violence, a rape trial can take up to two or three years for that to play out, and that can be really retraumatising for the victim. Similarly with instances of family violence, whether they be child abuse or other intimate partner violence instances, the number one ideal or objective we should be aiming for as a country, I believe, is to increase reporting rates of sexual violence and family violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EMy concern\u2014and the Minister may want to speak to this\u2014is that while this bill is great because, I guess, it tinkers at the edges by enabling judges to make a call about when a potential offender is using the very structure of our judiciary to attack or victimise someone repeatedly, I would like a level of confidence from the Minister about the changes made by this Government; specifically, that police don\u2019t attend family violence unless it\u2019s at a certain high threshold, which is difficult to unpick explicitly, because that has to be a serious offence or threat to life before police will attend a 111 call in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESecondly, the fact that a lot of the contracts that provide counselling to families who may be undergoing high levels of family violence, it is largely community providers that received funding through Oranga Tamariki and other Ministry of Social Development - type (MSD) services; those are the ones that go into those families and provide that help and assistance. Both Ministers responsible for those contracts, Oranga Tamariki and MSD\u2014there\u2019s been a statement pretty much that, particularly for children, they will only be given assistance if they\u2019re in State care\u2014nothing more, nothing less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EIf we know that the main reason people don\u2019t report family violence or sexual violence is because they\u2019ve previously asked for help and not received that help, and then we have an approach by this Government where ability to ask for help is being curtailed or shut down, how is that going to assist increasing reporting rates of family and sexual violence and how are we ever going to get on top of this issue as a country? While it might be great that we all agree on the fact that the court can be used as a tool to revictimise families\u2014women and children more so than others, given the statistics that I have seen\u2014really, is this bill a drop in the bucket?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EThe Minister may have a view, given the fact that this Government has taken significant steps back from finding out where that hurt is happening and resourcing the ability to address those family problems. It\u2019s almost like if violence happens in a street, we care about it then, but if it happens in someone\u2019s home, that\u2019s not our business. That seems to be the overarching business that if that\u2019s domestic violence, we just don\u2019t go to that unless we see it. My concern is that this sends a message out to people going through difficult times in their family\u2014people who want some assistance and don\u2019t know where to turn. Often they do call police, who then could refer on to another agency, if possible. There does not seem to be an overarching approach that there\u2019s no wrong door for family or sexual violence, and that is a real concern for advocates within this sector. I think it is a real concern for the next generation of young people growing up in New Zealand if we aspire as a country to be violence free. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c21f4beb-20c4-4b12-bc6f-fdc931e2dc96\u0022\u003ESchedule 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c0938321e863441fae0e28e5f8d54174\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002257ce6dec8a314cbc91c5cd896514d793\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257ce6dec8a314cbc91c5cd896514d793\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to clauses 1 and 2. Clauses 1 and 2 is the debate on title and commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022736e2daf3dcb48cba7e2519113482e5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022736e2daf3dcb48cba7e2519113482e5f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E My colleague\u2019s just reminded me that the genesis of this bill was a former member of this House: Emily Henderson. I know it\u2019s not traditional, but perhaps we could just call this bill the \u201CVictims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Emily Henderson Bill\u201D to recognise the significant contribution that Emily Henderson, former MP, made to this House. In particular, this was part of her kaupapa, but she really was a fierce advocate across the board for victims of family violence. That would be a lovely indication. Perhaps the Minister of Justice could just slip in an Amendment Paper like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2c8412a5db14dbf8cf1eadb20df652c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2c8412a5db14dbf8cf1eadb20df652c\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. I have a question for the Minister around the commencement date, and, hopefully, it\u2019s quite a simple clarification from the Minister. I would like some clarification on why a specific date wasn\u2019t given for the commencement of this bill. I mean, this is a bill that has pretty much\u2014you know, everyone agrees it\u2019s a really good bill, it\u2019s a really important bill, and it should come into effect; and we have seen other bills of a similar nature, when it comes to court proceedings, that the Minister has introduced that do give a specific date or are enacted, basically, after Royal assent. I want to know why there are provisions around this bill that it has to come into force after an Order in Council, and, if there is no Order in Council, it will come into force one year after Royal assent. If the Minister would just clarify that level of curiosity, considering, again, we\u2019ve seen other ones that have been given specific dates\u2014why this one isn\u2019t going to be coming into effect almost immediately or having a specific date given.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u00223681e59ec0e04d80bae635339216c77a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223681e59ec0e04d80bae635339216c77a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Act comes into force by Order in Council or one year after Royal assent. The 12-month lead time is necessary to make changes to the court rules, such as the Family Court rules, the District Court rules, or the High Court rules, so that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing, and then it will take effect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a1c44013143348dd88157f0a964dc031\u0022\u003EReport of Committtee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e412e1fc0b349b1a3e46ad645426c9e\u0022\u003EReport of Committtee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00224180a23b65744381b7ee5a22596c33cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224180a23b65744381b7ee5a22596c33cf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Gambling (Definition of Remote Interactive Gambling) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. The committee also considered the Victims of Family Violence (Strengthening Legal Protections) Legislation Bill and reports it with amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022531176329fb842de8aa39e58f1de1d60\u0022\u003EContracts of Insurance Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022357e6c802634454298dacf6d7adc44fd\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000399\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 15 October.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022 data-id=\u00224b50b4d90352491f9c199e0ebe53672a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b50b4d90352491f9c199e0ebe53672a\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First in support of the Contracts of Insurance Bill in the name of the Hon Andrew Bayly. Now, Mr\u2014oh, it\u2019s Madam Speaker. I\u2019ll let you take your seat, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258f3c4ca121e4a60bfc06da464484ad0\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f16c4e2bf264f39942db3915a8b92cc\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH\u003C/span\u003E: Currently, Madam Speaker, insurance contracts come under an umbrella of various case law and Acts. There are approximately six Acts, and some of them are very old\u2014some of them are up to 100 years old. It is time now for the area of insurance to be looked at and new legislation put in. Now, this bill has been in process for a while\u2014I believe it\u2019s been here for a little while from the previous Parliament. It\u2019s really looking at a whole lot of areas of which many stakeholders have come forward and said, \u201CLook, these are problem areas.\u201D, and it\u2019s now time to consolidate and modernise this legislation so that it is more in today\u2019s world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EI was speaking to someone the other day who\u2019s in the insurance business, and I was asking her a question about what the perception is of insurance companies. Is it getting better over time? And she said no, it\u2019s not. The relationship isn\u2019t as good, and, often, the feeling that someone has about an insurance company is their own personal experience of an insurance company. Now, I\u2019ve personally been very lucky, but many people have not and their experiences are as a result of some of these antiquated bits in the current legislation. Maybe by putting this legislation through, that perception will change, but it will take time. However, it does need to start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EIn this current legislation, many issues are looked at, such as disclosure remedies, and more instances have been looked at in the Finance and Expenditure Committee. Now, whilst I read in the first reading and am now reading in this reading, I wasn\u2019t part of the select committee, so I will talk a little bit about that later on, but there were some interesting areas on genetic discrimination that I will touch on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EOne of the things about insurance is that it is often something that we put our head in the sand about. I do know that I myself once just let policies lapse, and then before I knew it, I was paying for something that I didn\u2019t really need to pay for, which is why I personally decided I\u2019ll just pay a lump sum every year. That way it is one way that I can look at the policy\u2014it makes me look at the policy. Many people don\u2019t; they just pay something monthly and things just get put aside until one day you go, \u201CWow, this is what I\u2019m paying for.\u201D A lot of people get a little bit sucked in that way. My father was one of them. I know other seniors and other people who maybe aren\u2019t as inclined with their finances, and they get a little bit\u2014well, they put their head in the sand. Every now and then, I\u2019d get the phone call from my father. You know, \u201CTanya, I need you to look at something.\u201D I always knew it was looking at some of the fine print. Now, hopefully, with this legislation, things won\u2019t be as difficult and as intimidating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EOne of the areas, like I said, was about disclosure, and it will look at and simplify the insurance process and it will stop any miscommunication between the policyholder and the insurance company. What this legislation does is it looks at what is called \u201Cconsumer insurance policies\u201D and \u201Cnon-consumer\u201D\u2014consumer being more domestic and non-consumer being more of the business type of policies. It is important during disclosure that the consumer does his or her best to not misrepresent when they are actually applying for insurance and for the insurance companies to fairly represent the risk to the customer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow, one area that has also been spoken about and written about in this legislation are remedies. There will be more certainty now on remedies if something occurs, whether it be an innocent mistake in disclosure, whether it be reckless, or whether it be deliberate. The level of remedy will depend on what scale of misinformation or error has been done in the actual policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s also something else that is of interest, and that is that the bill introduces penalties for insurers who fail to act in good faith\u2014sometimes they might delay in processing the claims. That is something that I\u2019m really happy to see, because I know people who have struggled and waited a long time for their claims to be either looked at or paid out. That will be addressed here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003ENow, just very briefly, I\u2019ll talk about the genetic discrimination, which was brought up in the select committee. This is something that is used by people to find out whether they are genetically disposed to any illnesses, like some forms of cancer, Huntington\u2019s, various sorts of illnesses. What is going to be addressed is to ensure that insurers do not somehow take advantage of this. We don\u2019t want people to be discouraged from having these tests, because it is very important for many. This is something that has arisen in the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b21beb09-9d9b-4414-9bb1-ddba249459d5\u0022\u003EJust in summary: fairness, clarity, common sense, and it is time to relook at this legislation and bring it into the modern day. On behalf of New Zealand First, I commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022911e6bf23a624519beff747996e6afaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022911e6bf23a624519beff747996e6afaf\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. I call Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022 data-id=\u002272efab68fd1d4b3990cb09a4f750a18b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272efab68fd1d4b3990cb09a4f750a18b\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. E t\u016B ana ahau hei waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te rangi nei. E tautoko ana m\u0101tou i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. E mihi ana ki te Minita n\u0101na i kawe mai ki roto i te Whare P\u0101remata. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Madam Speaker, indeed greetings to all of us of the House. I stand to give voice to the statements of the M\u0101ori Party today. We support this particular bill. I acknowledge the Minister who brought it into the House of Parliament.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EM\u014D \u014D m\u0101tou wh\u0101nau e whakarongo ana i te k\u0101inga, ko te ngako o t\u0113nei pire [For our families listening at home, the essence of this bill, the purpose of this legislation is to] reform insurance contracts law and to streamline and modernise the existing insurance legislation framework in Aotearoa. The primary aim of this bill is to ensure that insurance contract law effectively facilitates well-functioning insurance markets for both insurers and the policyholders. It seeks to empower consumers and businesses to adequately protect themselves against risk, while also minimising costs and impacts on insurers\u2019 willingness to provide insurance here in Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EThe current framework governing insurance contractors is fragmented across six different Acts, some of which are over a hundred years old. Consolidation and modernisations of these laws are deemed necessary\u2014a view shared by industry stakeholders and consumers and groups alike. Various reviews, including those conducted by the Law Commission, have highlighted longstanding issues with insurance contract laws, which this bill aims to address. This bill also addresses the issues of unfair contract terms by removing insurance-specific expectations from the Fair Trading Act 1986.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI roto i ng\u0101 mahi o t\u0113nei pire, e tautoko ana m\u0101tou i t\u0113nei pire i roto i te mana motuhake. [With respect to the actions of this bill, we support this bill in our own autonomy.] This mandate for clear wording allows wh\u0101nau to gain a better understanding for their insurance policies, which will lead them to have more informed decisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI roto i te kaupapa o te mana \u014Drite, e tautoko ana Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei pire. [With respect to the subject of equality, the M\u0101ori Party supports this bill.]\u00A0The removal of expectations from the Fair Trading Act 1986 will promote equality between insurance contractors and other types of contracts, all of which will benefit consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ef5a38c-0ef7-4d68-8621-dcbb47077e6e\u0022\u003EI roto i te kaitiaki o t\u014D m\u0101tou whakapapa, ka tautoko Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei pire. [With respect to the protection of our genealogy, the M\u0101ori Party supports this bill.] Only 30 percent of M\u0101ori have house insurance, compared to the national average of 48\u00A0percent. Furthermore, only 40 percent of M\u0101ori have contents insurance and only 20\u00A0percent have health insurance\u2014compared to the national averages of 64 percent and 29\u00A0percent, respectively. This bill will make insurance more accessible and fairer for M\u0101ori. N\u014D reira e tautoko ana m\u0101tou o Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei pire. [And there we, of the M\u0101ori Party, support this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022a172534986a14c4f94e5327ca8082a19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a172534986a14c4f94e5327ca8082a19\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the Contracts of Insurance Bill on behalf of the Green Party. Understanding in terms of this particular bill has quite a long history that spanned multiple Governments. It started off as a review by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment around insurance contract law, which then was adopted as a Government bill, and then as the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s member\u2019s bill, and now as a Government bill again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhat we do have, then, is three different versions of this bill. One of the things when we were going to select committee is that a certain provision that was put in the original bill by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb was not found in this updated version of the Government bill. The Green Party has two main issues around this which we have Amendment Papers on. We\u2019ll be very interested to see if the Minister would consider these amendments in order for the Green Party to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe first one is around health and genetic testing, which is, granted, very important from the some of the submitted that we heard as part of the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I think, for me, what\u2019s really, really important here is the watering down from what is considered \u201Cfraudulently\u201D to \u201Cdishonestly\u201D when it comes to the contracts or in terms of some of the elements here. I think this is a really important point because what we have seen is that it gives insurance companies potentially more flexibility to void or to even challenge some of the claims that consumers might be making when it comes to that particular differentiation. What we wanted to see before when it comes to \u201Cfraudulently\u201D, that was really important from a mens rea perspective; a really important element of whether the consumer knowingly is misleading or didn\u2019t include certain information in an attempt to create fraud or be in that kind of situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EHowever, there are definitely good elements of this bill and I think some of the speakers have highlighted that one of the key elements of this bill, among many others, is the distinction between what is considered a non-consumer insurance contract and a consumer insurance contract. I think that particular distinction that we see throughout this bill is something that is really important and it also allows that level of clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, there are a couple of other submitters that submitted on various elements of the bill, and there are two additional issues that I would like to bring up and I will be very interested to hear the Minister\u2019s advice or clarifications around this as part of the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe first one is around the fact that the original bill was introduced and considered a stronger penalty around what is going to be for brokers, whereas it\u2019s no longer in this particular bill in the same way. This has to do with specifically when a duty on a broker to notify the insurer if the premium is not paid or pay interest when a broker failed to notify the insurer. I know that, within the bill, it talks about the fact that they wanted to do it in a way that claims cost from the broker as opposed to putting almost a criminal charge on the broker, but I think the idea is that we see a lot of duties and a lot of obligations on the insurer. I genuinely do think that in terms of the broker element, it hasn\u2019t been as tight in terms of rules and regulations when it comes to brokers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe second thing is also understanding that this bill tries to consolidate various elements of insurance law. However, one of the things that came out really, really strongly during the select committee stage is around the changes to the Marine Insurance Act 1908\u2014particularly when it comes to clause 167 of this bill, which I would like to discuss more on during the committee stage. Now, the marine insurance is a very specific section of the insurance contract, which then led to an amendment to clause 7 of the of the bill, which changes from \u201Ccontract of reinsurance\u201D to \u201Cnon-consumer\u201D contract. However, I do not think that it goes far enough. Again, I\u2019m looking forward to the committee stage where we can discuss this bill in more detail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u00220f5cbb2624ec427e8e661f45146473f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f5cbb2624ec427e8e661f45146473f8\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s great to be able to speak on the Contracts of Insurance Bill, this being an omnibus bill. I\u2019m growing quite fond of omnibus bills because they do a lot of things productively, which we\u2019re all about. In fact, this bill seeks to reform, I think, seven different Acts and cuts across the Life Insurance Act 1908\u2014and the member Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke mentioned that that Act is actually 100 years old, so it\u2019s amazing today that we\u2019re actually updating an Act that\u2019s over 100 years old; it was actually 1908\u2014the Law Reform Act 1936, the Insurance Law Reform Act 1977, the Insurance Law Reform Act 1985, and the Insurance Intermediaries Act 1994. But it doesn\u2019t stop there; in fact, there are two more that it actually implicates. It also amends the Fair Trading Act 1986 and the Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013. It\u2019s a really important bill that modernises those things, as has been well spoken about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EI would like to pay some tribute to the Hon Duncan Webb, who had a member\u2019s bill to recognise and update some of this outdated legislation. I would say he made some good contributions. We had a constructive Finance and Expenditure Committee. As you can see through this, I think the House is largely in support, bar three little things, which I\u2019ll speak on shortly. Fortunately, we had the great Minister Andrew Bayly, and he took the bill to a whole other level and it\u2019s going to be fantastic. You can see from the stakeholders that are involved that private insurance, the consumer, and insurers are going to be happy with the outcome of this, because it\u2019s really important that it simplifies and modernises a lot of what can be a very complex situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EA couple of the key, quick things are that this will shift the onus of disclosure duties to insurers rather than on private individuals, who may not know that they had to disclose umpteen loads of information. It makes it clearer for them, and it puts the responsibility on the insurer. A bit like open banking, it\u2019s going to make it more competitive for consumers to be able to choose different insurance companies, with greater clarity and greater transparency, and that\u2019s really important. Going forward, insurers must also use simple terms to make sure their policies are easier to understand, and they will also have to pay customers within a reasonable time frame. I know the member Catherine Wedd can talk from personal experience through the cyclones that have affected her territory and the importance of insurance companies paying up in time and in full and in appropriation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EYou might ask what\u2019s wrong with the 100-year-old Life Insurance Act 1908. Well, there\u2019s a few quick things I\u2019d just touch on as to why we need to update this. In fact, they do translate across all the other bills, too. One of the first ones is transparency, which I touched on. It\u2019s really important for the insurance policy to be transparent to consumers so they know what they\u2019re buying, because insurance, as we know, can be very complex and goes across property, assets, and vehicles. Life insurance is very complex and can be very convoluted, and when people pay premiums, they want to ensure that they are getting what they\u2019re signing up for. Of course, regulations have changed a little bit since 1908, too, so it\u2019s important that this bill is more reflective of the modern economy which we\u2019re living in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EThe third reason is technological changes. Obviously, we didn\u2019t have the internet in 1908. We had snail mail, which we actually don\u2019t even use a lot today. This bill reflects a lot more modern-day technology. The economic outcomes are quite different, too. You\u2019ll appreciate that the wages people got, the inflation rates, the bank standards, the lending, the whole insurance ecosystem, was very different from what we have today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EFinally, the claims process\u2014and this is perhaps one of the key elements of this bill\u2014it\u2019s to make the claims process easier but also clearer for insurers to accept, for consumers to access, and for the settlement of those claims. One of the things which we settled on was that insurance claims are paid within a reasonable time frame, and that was a little bit of a sticking point. Some members wanted to try and land on a definitive date, but the advice we got back was that \u201Ca reasonable time frame\u201D does give flex, because there is a lot of complexity when setting payment terms and payment times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EThe other key point of difference\u2014and the Green Party member Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan touched on it before\u2014was \u201Cfraudulent\u201D to \u201Cdishonest\u201D. We landed on \u201Cdishonest\u201D because it was more in keeping with other countries around the world, in terms of Australia and England. I do have to say it was a bit odd that the Labour Party actually wanted to go to \u201Cfraudulent\u201D when, in the past, they actually wanted to reduce the prison population and were a little bit soft on crime. Here, they were actually wanting to make it a criminal activity and embed the word \u201Cfraudulent\u201D, but \u201Cdishonest\u201D actually softens it and gives a little bit more grace, so that if someone makes a dishonest mistake, it\u2019s not going to affect the whole insurance premium and throw the baby out with the bathwater. That\u2019s why we thought it was a much more nuanced response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EAt the end of the day, the consensus was largely supportive of where we landed. Genetic testing was a new one, and it did delay the settlement on this piece. We had to talk to the industry a little bit more about it because there\u2019s, obviously, incredibly new technology in the space of genetic testing, and it\u2019s a double-edged sword. People can have their genetics or their DNA analysed and actually have a better sense of where they are in the health spectrum, but, conversely, there was fear that insurance companies having that visibility might actually penalise or lift premiums or not insure at all. We wrestled with that, and where we landed was, we thought, a nuanced response where we\u2019ve left it open for regulation-making powers to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003EAll in all, I think we\u2019ve landed on a very good, a very consensual bill which reflects modern society, reflects a fairly broad view across the House. And, with that, I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00229a888a3ef28e49a9a1c2ce414ed374b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a888a3ef28e49a9a1c2ce414ed374b8\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I\u2019ve said before, this is the second-best insurance bill that\u2019s been introduced to the House this year, because I did have a cracker, and I was surprised that, as the member Ryan Hamilton was speaking, the Minister who\u2019s sponsoring this bill was heckling him from behind. I do want to say that you don\u2019t often get a call from a Minister, particularly when you\u2019re not in the governing party, but the Minister did call me and said, \u201CAbout that insurance contracts bill, it\u2019s awkward, because I\u2019ve got one that I want to introduce as well.\u201D, and he sort of said, \u201CWould you mind just withdrawing your bill?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI know you\u2019ve got to be careful what you say in this House, so I\u2019ll quote: I said, \u201CBugger off.\u201D, and he was not pleased. But with the way this place works\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b24339724385463a99a4d860df5850ef\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: I wanted to work collaboratively with you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022624f08c0ad444597a9d8a4fc77e9d122\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t worry\u2014I\u2019ve still got plenty to say. But the way this place works is that, if the Government introduces a bill and bumps it up the Order Paper and reads it for the first time, mine is put on ice. But don\u2019t worry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212bfdc939efb42fbbb4fb9ab2e65de08\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: But I did change it\u2014I did change it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fc8235cbc7f43af9dfcdd7b45cc82ed\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: You did do some changes. You\u2019re right, Mr Bayly\u2014well done! You did do some changes, and they were not very good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you, Mr Bayly, here\u2019s the one that really gets to me\u2014I\u2019m going to go straight to the one which I find perplexing, and that\u2019s the amendments to the Fair Trading Act. The Fair Trading Act has got a part of it which allows the Commerce Commission to identify and prohibit unfair contract terms. Now, for pretty obvious reasons, insurers have hated that since it came in, and they got a free pass from when it was originally introduced. That\u2019s never been right. It\u2019s always been the case that they should be drawn into the unfair contract terms provisions. They\u2019ve always said, \u201COh no, insurance is different. It\u2019s complicated. We don\u2019t want things like exclusion clauses and the amounts of the premium and things like that to be able to be ruled unfair.\u201D The draft that I introduced into this House said premiums, sure, I understand that\u2014you can\u2019t argue about premiums: it\u2019s a yes/no question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhy should exclusion terms be themselves excluded from the unfair contract terms regime? Let\u2019s just think what that means for a minute: that there can be an exclusion clause which an insurer uses in its form contracts which is unfair, yet the Commerce Commission is not allowed to look at it. It beggars belief to me that the Insurance Council of New Zealand would come to select committee and say, \u201CDon\u2019t touch our insurance clauses. We want the right to have unfair exclusion clauses.\u201D That to me is a nonsense. But, Mr Bayly, don\u2019t worry\u2014I\u2019m here to help. I have many Amendment Papers drafted. I\u2019ll try to get them in early so that your officials can adopt them all, and I won\u2019t even mind if, like Minister Paul Goldsmith, you adopt them and put them in your own name just so that you look like a clever little Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to talk about is delay. One of the biggest problems in insurance is delay. Whilst the Minister did pick up some of my work and require the insurer to settle a claim within a reasonable time, it simply doesn\u2019t go far enough. He\u2019s chosen a list of factors to determine reasonable time, and that\u2019s one way to go, but I\u2019ll tell you what it doesn\u2019t have\u00A0and what it desperately needs, and that is teeth. It needs real damages, because in the Tower case in Christchurch, an architect sued Tower, who had wrongly refused a claim for six years, and that court awarded\u2014because that\u2019s the way the law of general damages works\u2014$20,000\u00A0for six years\u2019 delay and having an unlivable house for that long, whilst the insurer sat on millions of dollars for that period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThere are two things we need to address in this bill when it comes to the committee of the whole House stage. One is making it clear that interest on claims that are wrongfully denied, or the value of them, is included as damages, particularly in consumer contracts, because if someone\u2019s going to be out of their house\u2014and Christchurch has seen every possible permutation of this\u2014doesn\u2019t have insurance for the rental they\u2019re having to pay, and yet is being denied the value of hundreds of thousands of dollars of repairs, they deserve to be compensated for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe other thing is genuine damages\u2014damages that count for the distress and anxiety that goes along with that\u2014because the fact of the matter is that that kind of distress in a very significant insurance claim can be life-changing in a very negative way. I\u2019ve seen relationships break up and all kinds of heartache, and even if you do come out of it at the other side, certainly that\u2019s six years or more in many cases\u2014there\u2019s still cases from Christchurch that are outstanding\u2014which can cause real heartache indeed. The third thing that I\u2019ll help you with, Mr Bayly\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d184a9114b44537bcaef8602cf42b4b\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014don\u2019t need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228d1b100b8244b1295e486b63f2f5ef0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve heard you say that you don\u2019t need any help before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dd7fcc4d6654d5a9dee939dce140fff\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, he needs help, all right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fee92185306048c79292610476e190f2\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yeah, he does, Mr Kieran McAnulty\u2014is good faith, because, once again, insurers don\u2019t like good faith being thrown up. Good faith cuts both ways. Usually, it\u2019s been used against the insured\u2014\u201Cpolicyholders\u201D, in the language of the bill\u2014to say, \u201CYou didn\u2019t tell us the truth. That\u2019s a breach of bad faith.\u201D, but we need to make sure that we make it abundantly clear that good faith is a duty owed by the insured and the insurer, so that when an insurer comes to assess a claim, or even to deny a claim\u2014which they\u2019re entitled to do in many situations\u2014they should do so fairly, honestly, promptly, and taking into account the interests of all the parties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EFor far too long, insurers in these very important contracts have taken into account only their own interests\u2014only their own balance sheets\u2014and they\u2019ve paid lip service only to what goes on outside of their own companies, and many of the better insurers will admit they\u2019ve had to up their game here. That has meant a culture of delay, denial, and deferral, and that has caused problems across the industry. I think they\u2019re doing better now. Perhaps my MP colleagues from the Hawke\u2019s Bay or Auckland can tell us how they\u2019re doing up there, but we absolutely need to make it clear what that good faith is. It\u2019s not just at the outset of the contract\u2014it\u2019s not just when you enter into it\u2014but it\u2019s at renewal. The point where it matters the most is in claims handling, because, to be perfectly honest, no one takes a lot of notice of their insurance arrangements until they get to the claims point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s plenty more to go through in this bill, including some of the language of it. I\u2019m not sure why we\u2019re still using the language of \u201Cgeneral average\u201D and \u201Cpro rata claims\u201D, and why we can\u2019t use a bit more plain English. But that kind of amendment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a029939d1e44df2b2755cecfb8498b2\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s wrong with pro rata?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0aa16183fe14d00bb0f3e80cbbe7ed2\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s wrong with general average? I mean no one in this House, I imagine\u2014well, a few people in this House understand what general average is. But we\u2019ll fix that up when we come to the thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe genetic testing material, while it is a useful improvement\u2014and that is something which wasn\u2019t in the original bill. It is a really good example of where some ability to make rules to make sure insurers behave in a way which is consistent with the public interest\u2014because, of course, we know with genetic testing that it can reveal genetic dispositions to illness or disease, and if we have to disclose that, we might not go and get those tests. The flip side is that knowing that information means we can take preventative action, protective action, which will greatly enhance the health of our population. So that\u2019s a good initiative\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef86097c1fe14a47b2f786d05191950c\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Are you going to explain about your tie? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227922fcc485f3421bb46476eb9b3212bf\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I\u2019m sure that the submitters on that will be very pleased indeed. But, Mr Bayly, as you\u2019re yapping away there in the background, if you want to give me a call and have a yarn, I won\u2019t tell you to bugger off. Thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u002257696a7687fa4ec6915cf6f47679ee37\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257696a7687fa4ec6915cf6f47679ee37\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in support of the Contracts of Insurance Bill. I\u2019d just like to do a shout-out to the Finance and Expenditure Committee and to our wonderful Minister Bayly for navigating this very comprehensive piece of legislation through, because it\u2019s really going to make a difference modernising our insurance laws. I can speak from personal experience when it comes to insurance, having undergone Cyclone Gabrielle in our region, where there were record numbers of insurance claims across Hawke\u2019s Bay, across the East Coast, and obviously across Auckland in the Auckland Anniversary weather events as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThese were two of the largest insurance events in New Zealand\u2019s history. The most recent statistics that have come through show that insurers have settled 112,746 claims out of 118,037 claims. This amounts to approximately $3.8\u00A0billion\u2014about $4\u00A0billion, once everything is settled. These are record numbers and there are still communities that are in difficult positions where they have not got their insurance claims yet, and particularly there are some communities where they were under-insured.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThis has been a really emotional and tiring process in Hawke\u2019s Bay and it\u2019s still really very raw for a lot of people. I would just like to acknowledge the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. As he rightly pointed out, insurance can be a very emotional and stressful time for people and causing a lot of heartache. That brings me to acknowledging the communities that are still going through that heartache in Hawke\u2019s Bay. I would just like to acknowledge Pakowhai, Waiohiki, Puketapu, Fernhill, \u014Cmahu, and Central Hawke\u2019s Bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EJust a few weeks ago, I visited the \u014Cmahu community. \u014Cmahu is a community in Hawke\u2019s Bay which was completely flooded by Cyclone Gabrielle. The \u014Cmahu Marae has been the strength of the community, and many people there have been living in the marae since those February floods last year. Just recently when I visited, the last three families were moving out of the marae into their homes. I think this just makes it very real as to the position that we still are in in Hawke\u2019s Bay, with families still out of their homes and still moving back to temporary accommodation, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI visited a beautiful lady there in \u014Cmahu who had had her house completely flooded and she had some temporary accommodation moved on to the property by the Ministry of Social Development, and yet her property was under-insured, so she can\u2019t do the repairs on that property. She has to look every day at that house that she used to live in, still smeared in silt, and that\u2019s a really, really difficult time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI suppose what it does\u2014and this brings me back to this insurance law\u2014is it really, really highlights the importance of having robust, modern insurance laws, which, when disaster strikes, we can put these insurance laws into action. I think the member spoke earlier about our M\u0101ori communities being more vulnerable when it comes to insurance, and we did see that in Cyclone Gabrielle. I can\u2019t speak more positively about these very good insurance laws that we are going to be passing through today and how important it is to have full cover to ensure that you have a very good, robust insurance policy in place. It\u2019s very relevant to Hawke\u2019s Bay, it\u2019s very relevant to the East Coast, and, of course, Christchurch and Kaik\u014Dura, and especially when we\u2019ve had those natural disasters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EMany of my constituents, during this time, did contact me a lot with insurance claims, and we had to navigate through those really emotional processes and those emotional times, and so I\u2019m really, really happy today to be speaking to the Contracts of Insurance Bill, which is going to update the laws. The purpose of this bill, as has already been spoken about today, is to obviously make the law more effective, but it also enables more protection for the consumers to protect themselves against risk and minimise those costs and impacts on insurers\u2019 willingness also to provide insurance in New Zealand, so it works for both the insured and the insurer, and this bill is going to provide a single, modern framework for that. As we\u2019ve already heard, it is an omnibus bill, which is going to tie a lot of those bills into a modern framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EUnder this bill, there are many, many changes that it makes, but I think one of the key elements that will be really good is the requirement for insurers to pay any due sums in reasonable time. The \u201Creasonable time\u201D is key, because this is a significant change, because when disaster hits\u2014as we\u2019ve already heard, if you lose your home and you lose your business\u2014you want to be able to get some certainty and some clear time lines around insurance. That is absolutely imperative. It\u2019s emotional enough when you\u2019ve lost everything and you\u2019ve lost your home and your livelihood and then you\u2019re having to go through the stress of insurance and obviously wanting to be paid out within reasonable time. People want to be able to move on with their lives quickly and a better framework around insurance will ensure that that happens, so this is going to be a very welcome change in the legislation, that reasonable time framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThe bill also shifts that responsibility towards the insurers to ask the right questions and ask specific questions so people know what is required in their policy and how much cover they essentially will have, but also the detail of that cover. I did see a lot of that in the aftermath of Cyclone Gabrielle. People were a little bit uncertain around what was covered and what wasn\u2019t covered, because potentially they just didn\u2019t have that clarity. This bill is going to iron out some of that and ensure that\u2014you know, the change aims to stop the unfair denial of claims and ensure people receive the support they need, which is really important. By fostering a more robust insurance market, the bill will not only protect consumers and the people who suffer loss but it will also provide insurers with the certainty they need for that comprehensive, affordable coverage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EThis balance is crucial for rebuilding and strengthening our economy. As Ryan Hamilton spoke about earlier, providing competition and a more competitive environment is also very, very important for resetting our economy as well, and so this bill will bring immediate benefits and set a precedent as to how we handle natural disasters moving forward. It\u2019s about ensuring fairness, transparency, and efficiency in our insurance system and especially as we need to adapt to climate change. After seeing so many families struggle across Hawke\u2019s Bay, I think that having a robust, modern insurance framework is going to be really, really positive for New Zealand. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022 data-id=\u0022aad10b4022ed47e690e5b2dd9298dbb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aad10b4022ed47e690e5b2dd9298dbb3\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON (Labour\u2014Christchurch East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to take a call on this bill, the Contracts of Insurance Bill. It\u2019s a good start, but it doesn\u2019t go far enough\u2014but it is a good start. I think we can all agree that insurance should be clear and insurance should be fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a448e98743e84afa80e2b9ed885e0857\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Clear and fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d80191e050294fe4b0ecd35beb372225\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d like to\u2014thank you; yes, very fair. It should be very fair. Speaking of very fair, I\u2019d like to just reference the earlier speech from my fellow member the Hon Duncan Webb and really acknowledge the work that he\u2019s done in this space too. Now, Mr Webb\u2014member Webb, the Hon Duncan Webb\u2014is a person who knows a lot about insurance, both being a lawyer but also being from Christchurch. Let\u2019s not lose sight of the fact that Christchurch underwent huge pressure and enormous insurance pressure as a result of the Christchurch earthquakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s one thing that I want to speak about specifically in here\u2014well, there\u2019s several, but there\u2019s one thing that I want to start with\u2014and that is around the possibility of policy holders making a mistake. Let\u2019s be fair, we all make mistakes; we\u2019ve spoken about several that we\u2019ve spotted already in this bill; so, you know, we do all make mistakes. I think one of the things that\u2019s important to point out is that, as amended by the Finance and Expenditure Committee, the bill does away with \u201Cfraud\u201D and uses the less clear \u201Cdishonesty\u201D standard. I think it\u2019s probably a good point to talk about what the difference between fraud and dishonesty is. In my books, fraud would be telling someone, for example, that they\u2019re going to get a thousand bucks a fortnight and a sweeping tax cut, whereas dishonesty would just be adding the words \u201Cup to\u201D in front of that. There is a difference between fraud and dishonesty. I think being less clear about that definition really is a risk because it means that genuine mistakes could be met with much, much harsher penalties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EI also think it\u2019s important that if we\u2019re talking about the fact that insurance should be clear and fair, we also accept that insurance isn\u2019t simple. I point members to a NielsenIQ report that has found just recently in August that only a third of insured homeowners are confident they know what damage to their home would or would not be covered by insurance after a natural hazard event. Now, that\u2019s one-third of New Zealanders having a reasonable understanding of what coverage or support they can expect after a natural hazard event\u2014and we\u2019re seeing an increasing number of natural hazard events\u2014and 26 percent were confident they understood what could be covered for damage to their land. Those are not big numbers, and that should be of concern to us all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EWhat should put us at ease is the Minister Bayly saying that under this bill, there will be no more guesswork for consumers. Well, thank you, Minister Bayly. That\u2019s a big promise to make, and I can see you\u2019re looking at me saying, \u201CWhen did I say that?\u201D\u2014I can see the member\u2019s looking at me saying, \u201CWhen did he say that?\u201D That\u2019s been reported in the New Zealand Herald as recently as 2\u00A0May this year, Minister Bayly, so it\u2019s good to see that you\u2019re guaranteeing there\u2019ll be no more guesswork for consumers as a result just of this bill. As far as insurance goes, what I would like to suggest is that if the Minister is looking for an underwriter for policies such as this, he should look no further than the aforementioned Hon Duncan Webb, who does know a lot about insurance and could potentially underwrite some of the insurance policy and some of the remits that you\u2019re trying here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022631d9edd-77fb-4f22-8b5d-a7c81d997865\u0022\u003EI also think\u2014as I finish\u2014that, in talking about clear and fair insurance, reasonable time for settlements is a big part of that. There were 650,000 insurance claims in Christchurch as a result of the 2011 earthquake sequence, and there are still homeowners and property owners waiting to settle some of those claims. I think we should be concerned that this bill walks back the requirement for insurers to settle claims quickly. I think that is a mistake. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s clear; I don\u2019t think that\u2019s fair. I support the bill. There\u2019s much more to be done, Minister Bayly. Duncan Webb is the man to see\u2014he won\u2019t always give you that rude greeting. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u0022953cd140545a420190e4c8b1d7938173\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022953cd140545a420190e4c8b1d7938173\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E They just can\u2019t help themselves, can they? They have to get in a dig about how much they hate tax cuts, even with inflation at all-time lows and tackling the cost of living crisis. Had to get in a dig about how much they oppose hard-working Kiwis getting the money they deserve. This is a bill that was designed for those hard-working Kiwis\u2014those ones that are benefiting from that tax relief\u2014because this is about sorting out insurance contracts for them. I just want to touch on maybe three or four points as we think about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EMaybe they\u2019ve lost the plot; they\u2019re just in this mentality\u2014over the other side\u2014where they just have to argue everything and oppose everything out of principle. Here we have a Minister that\u2019s doing a great thing, putting a bill through that, on the one hand, they wanted to claim credit for because they thought of it first; on the other hand, they\u2019re opposing because it\u2019s not what we need. I\u2019m baffled by what it is that last speech was meant to cover.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EOne of the key principles going through this\u2014and it\u2019s exactly what Minister Bayly was speaking about. If you read the context of that speech that was reported back in May, it is about making insurance contracts easier to understand. It\u2019s about using plain language, everyday language, that when mum or dad rang up to get their house insurance, their contents, their vehicle, maybe life insurance\u2014whatever it might be in that particular instance\u2014using language that they can understand. There won\u2019t be many Kiwis that have claimed to have read and understood every little bit of fine print in maybe their home and contents policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EUsing everyday language that people can understand is really important, but more than that, it is about moving the onus from the consumer to the insurer themselves. That principle that says, \u201CWell, look, we\u2019re not the experts in insurance when we ring up to insure a car. Actually, the insurance company is.\u201D The responsibility to ensure that they have the information they need to enact that policy must sit with them, it doesn\u2019t seem reasonable, nor does it seem fair, to hold against someone the fact that they didn\u2019t know exactly which technical bit of information may or may not have needed to be provided in that instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EThere are some very tragic examples, instances, of policies being refused or having to be challenged about whether or not they would be paid out because a bit of information wasn\u2019t provided which doesn\u2019t actually\u2014perhaps in the case of one that I read was around a life insurance policy and the information that was missing was completely unrelated to a tragic accidental cause of death. But it was used as a clause to get them out of that. This says, \u201CActually, if the insurer wants that bit of information, they need to pose those questions to the consumer at the time so that they can go and get that language.\u201D They know what they need. They can be the one to go and use that. Of course, the other aspect there about timely payments and just ensuring that consumers, when they are entitled to that claim, will get paid out in a timely fashion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ENow, the second bit that was of interest to me was the bit around genetic testing\u2014around \u201Cgenetic discrimination\u201D, as it\u2019s called. This was a new issue that came up in the select committee process and I haven\u2019t heard a huge amount of discussion around this, but the bill does go into some detail. Now I\u2019m comfortable with where the committee landed in their recommendation of effectively leaving the door open that in future it could be done. That maybe we\u2019re not quite ready to go there yet\u2014some countries have, some haven\u2019t. We need a bit more information, we want to learn more about this, but it leaves it open to future Ministers and there can be questions about wanting to ensure the appropriate safeguards are in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EAs I read section 4, as I look at clause 86, particularly 86B, which goes through the regulations of how this can be done, when the Minister can approach the Governor-General, I\u2019m satisfied that the appropriate safeguards are in place at that moment, particularly when you read, through 86C, the need to consult the Financial Markets Authority, the need to consult those that will be impacted by any change in this regard, to ensure that it\u2019s not going to unduly prevent insurance companies from getting the information they need. Equally, we want to ensure we\u2019re safeguarding people\u2019s privacy and their right to hold on to some of that medical information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003EConsidering that, I do commend this bill to the House and maybe just finish with Kris Faafoi\u2014quoting him\u2014congratulating Minister Bayly for his support and commitment in modernising insurance law\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00226bc7e845776b4dc78e44babea750d7de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bc7e845776b4dc78e44babea750d7de\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022 data-id=\u002250fef03a95aa46219ddacabeb82f4458\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250fef03a95aa46219ddacabeb82f4458\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m pleased to be able to take a call on this. The previous speaker, Tim Costley, said he was baffled. Now, those of us that know him are not surprised by this, but he seems confused as to the Labour Party position, so for the sake of him and the clarity of the House, I\u2019ll spell it out real simple. This bill has come about because of the work of the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, who, I think it\u2019s fair to say, knows more about insurance than anyone else in this House, and that is because before he came to this House, he was a professor of law and he represented countless people who were having issues with their insurance companies after Christchurch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, through that experience, Dr Webb saw ways in which policyholders were not being treated fairly by insurance companies, and upon coming into Parliament he sought to correct that and, through a member\u2019s bill, used his experience and expertise to come up with a proposed law that would\u2019ve evened out the ledger. The Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs has come in, said, \u201CThat\u2019s a good idea, but it goes too far for us, so we\u2019ll take this on and we\u2019ll water it down.\u201D That is where we stand. Of course we support the bill, because it\u2019s better than the status quo, but it\u2019s entirely fair and reasonable to point out where the bill was going to go and now isn\u2019t, and the consequences of those decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EThe Minister has made changes that allow things to occur to the disadvantage of the policyholder. If the intent of the bill was to improve the protections of the policyholder and the intent of the bill, as many Government speakers have said, is to make it a better experience for the policyholder, why would they make these changes? They actually go counter to what they\u2019re saying. As Reuben Davidson pointed out, the change from \u201Cfraud\u201D to \u201Cdishonesty\u201D opens up a massive, ambiguous loophole that would allow a genuine mistake to be accused as dishonest and therefore thrown out. It\u2019s a much higher bar to prove that it was fraudulent behaviour than it is to prove dishonest behaviour, and if this goes through as is proposed, some people that made genuine mistakes will miss out on coverage because of the wording of one word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, that could be fixed. It was proposed; it\u2019s been watered down, but I hope the Minister reflects on that and, at the committee of the whole House stage, considers the amendments that will be proposed by Dr Duncan Webb, because if we are true in our intentions\u2014as has been stated today\u2014that we want to protect consumers, then that change will need to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ESome speakers have spoken about the difficulty that people have had dealing with insurance companies and getting an answer, be it acceptance or be it rejection or whatever, in a timely fashion, and the importance of that. The fact is there isn\u2019t a single region in this country that hasn\u2019t had a significant event, be it a natural disaster or a weather event, hit them in living memory. Everyone has been affected by this, every region, and no one can say that they won\u2019t be in the future. You cannot guarantee that you\u2019ll be immune from the impacts of a natural disaster, be it flooding or an earthquake or whatever. Insurance touches all of our lives, and if we are going to be true to the statements that are made in this House and we want to make sure that claims are settled and completed in a timely fashion, why did the Minister water down the proposals that were in Dr Webb\u2019s bill? I think that\u2019s a question we should consider. In whose interest is this amendment working? I don\u2019t believe it\u2019s in the interests of consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EAs Dr Webb pointed out, why on earth would they want to water down the protections that were proposed to allow the Commerce Commission to look over the exemptions that can be included, to make sure that they\u2019re fair and that they\u2019re not solely in the interests of the insurer. They\u2019ve taken that out. What is there to be scared of there? The Commerce Commission can look at something; if they think it\u2019s fine, they say it\u2019s fine, as they do in most other areas, and if they\u2019ve got a concern, they raise it and they work through it. Why on earth wouldn\u2019t you want that there? Whose interest is that change working in?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003ENow, the fact is that the insurance industry in this country is absolutely crucial. If it weren\u2019t for them, we wouldn\u2019t be anywhere near as advanced in our thinking around managed retreat or around climate adaptation. In fact, the insurance sector has done more work on climate adaptation than this Government, and they\u2019re concerned about the trajectory of this Government, because this is an issue that we cannot overlook and ignore. If people are concerned about insurance premiums\u2014they\u2019ve gone up 20 percent this year\u2014they\u2019ve got to recognise that insurance premiums are linked to risk, and if the Government is going to walk away from its responsibility of climate adaptation and investing properly in the likes of flood protection, etc., we should all expect higher premiums. That\u2019s a fact. The insurance companies are the ones that have, in many respects, led the conversation in this regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1f7bbd1-b6ae-41c0-963b-dbe1251f5540\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important that the contracts that people enter into with insurance companies are fair. Dr Webb\u2019s bill would\u2019ve definitely achieved that. The Minister\u2019s bill does to some degree, but if the Minister is open-minded and wants to listen to someone of Dr Webb\u2019s expertise and experience and accept his amendments, then this bill will be even better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022733eb9f8cd2c4d2f8ace5ec7cb7a56d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022733eb9f8cd2c4d2f8ace5ec7cb7a56d0\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Just responding to the accusation, if you like, that the good work of Dr Webb\u2019s has been stolen, my understanding\u2014and correct me if I\u2019m wrong, Minister Bayly\u2014is that bill supposedly never got off the ground. He sat on it for years and years and years, and when our Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs said that he wanted to pick it up, they said, \u201CFor goodness sake, you know, you\u2019re going to have to change some things, because premiums, under Duncan Webb\u2019s proposal, will go up.\u201D Correct me if I\u2019m wrong, but that\u2019s what our Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs got right with his changes here, and he\u2019s doing a great job. He\u2019s what we call one of the \u201Comnibus Ministers\u201D, being a Minister of Statistics, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing, and now he\u2019s modernising the insurance law to protect Kiwi households.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EI wasn\u2019t on the Finance and Expenditure Committee, but Dr Webb now wants to put up all these amendments and waste time. Looking at the recommendation from the select committee report, can I just leave you with this thought? \u201CThe Finance and Expenditure Committee has examined the Contracts of Insurance Bill\u201D\u2014i.e., Minister Bayly\u2019s bill\u2014\u201Cand recommends by majority that it be passed.\u201D So, without further ado, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00221d29997b3695462aacf9e02e19effcc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d29997b3695462aacf9e02e19effcc8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the amendments recommended by the Finance and Expenditure Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022b004000e46f342d181bca9172fb19864\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First\u00A08.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 15\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Tana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000494\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000495\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ebb4d71e239f435b86826d47192df80c\u0022\u003EStatutes Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a2619699f8c4cf08c5bc682bf9b8b12\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u00224260a1733529400e852786f69234437e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224260a1733529400e852786f69234437e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Statutes Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3513d07fb2d4ba3b70e4a6f8a84ffda\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222df042fe72944fae87d0fdd683784920\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I move, That the Statutes Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Governance and Administration Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EIt is important our legislation continues to remain accurate, fit for purpose, and reflective of the policy intent. We all have a responsibility to be stewards of our systems and legislation. Regularly progressing these types of bills is one way we can ensure we continue to prioritise and maintain the quality of our legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EStatutes amendment bills make minor, technical, and non-controversial amendments to several Acts. This allows amendments to be made that would not usually be given sufficient priority. Amendments are progressed through the support of all parties in Parliament. This bill comprises of 96 proposals that will amend 42 Acts administered by 14 different Government agencies. Many of the amendments in this bill correct drafting errors, such as incorrect wording or references. For example, the proposed amendment to the Crown Entities Act 2004 will replace the outdated term \u201CMinister of State Services\u201D with \u201CMinister for the Public Service\u201D, or replacing the reference to the State Sector Act 1988 with the Public Service Act 2020 to refer to the current Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EOther changes make technical amendments to provide clarity or better reflect the intention of the legislation. For example, a proposed amendment to the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act 2003 will clarify that lenders are not required to keep records for applications from borrowers that are declined or withdrawn, to remove an unnecessary compliance burden.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003ESome amendments make non-controversial improvements to how legislation works in practice. Another example: one of the proposed amendments to the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009 will extend the time frame for submitting prescribed transaction reports, or PTRs, from 10 days to 20 days. This will improve the quality of those PTRs that are submitted to the Financial Intelligence Unit. Another example is the proposed amendment to the Radiocommunications Act 1989, which will include that an infringement notice may be sent to a person\u2019s electronic address if the person does not have a known place of residence, to reflect developments in digital technologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EThis bill also provides an opportunity to address outdated language, such as that used\u00A0in the Criminal Records (Clean Slate) Act 2004. The description of certain people as \u201Csubnormal\u201D, \u201Cidiot\u201D, and \u201Cimbecile\u201D, specified in historic specified offences, will be removed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003EEven though I\u2019ve only covered a few amendments from this bill, these examples demonstrate the value of statutes amendment bills as a way of advancing minor but important changes. While all the parties in Parliament have indicated their support for the amendments proposed in the bill, I look forward to hearing the select committee\u2019s views on these matters as well as any views of the public. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc28763cef5047eb84e2d273ff61c963\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc28763cef5047eb84e2d273ff61c963\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd4b63134cb4412eb59fceddf53ee066\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd4b63134cb4412eb59fceddf53ee066\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I rise in support of this bill on behalf of the Labour Party. This is a really interesting tradition that has come up\u2014that these bills are collaborated on\u2014and it\u2019s a good thing for the New Zealand public that that happens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EThis is going to go to the Governance and Administration Committee, and I urge the public to make sure that they do look through the list of the bills affected. There\u2019s a lot of bills that will be affected by this that may be of interest to the public. For example, there are quite substantial changes to the Privacy Act, and while we think we\u2019ve got it right\u2014and that\u2019s why it\u2019s before the committee with a support level that is unusual\u2014that doesn\u2019t mean that we necessarily have. It may be that things come up for the public\u2014they are working with these Acts and they see things that they don\u2019t think are right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EOne of the wonderful things about the New Zealand process is that we have select committees that truly do listen to the public. I\u2019ve been in situations on select committees in the last term where things turned and changed on the basis of what we were told by either experts in the field of that particular law who said, \u201CYou\u2019d think this might be a good idea, but it\u2019s not\u201D or actually just general comments from members of the public who made the same kind of contribution. I think that\u2019s one of the wonderful things about our system, and I see this as an opportunity to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003ESome of the little changes here are things that we probably need to be ashamed were ever in our laws\u2014words that were used that were just inappropriate\u2014and we have come a long way, and it\u2019s good to see those things being swept up and changed. These are often seen as housekeeping bills, and that\u2019s one way of looking at them, but that does not mean that some of the things within these bills are not significant. It\u2019s really important that the public look at these things and second-guess us on it. I invite the public to do that. I am very pleased to see this go to the Governance and Administration Committee, who are a very thorough, hard-working committee and will listen to all the submissions. Thank you. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u0022ceaf3002c98b47758b957b847a29a025\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ceaf3002c98b47758b957b847a29a025\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E On behalf of the Greens, we support this bill. As others have noted, this is a bill that had consultation from all parties and the tradition is to bring it forward. While knowing that parties don\u2019t have any major issues with the contents of this bill, I do think it\u2019s interesting to examine the language around \u201Cminor, technical, and non-controversial\u201D, because that is actually relatively subjective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EWhat may be deemed non-controversial for us may not be for others. I think how I would interpret the non-controversial kind of aspect of this is that it has had agreement amongst all parties, but it is important to note, as others have, that some of the language that we\u2019re changing, some of it was controversial, and it is a good thing that we\u2019re modernising pieces of legislation to ensure that not only do they reflect the modern times but that we look at errors that would have meant that the legislation was not doing what it had intended to, or would have been written in ways that were not accurate. Interestingly enough, I note that changes in the Criminal Records (Clean Slate) Act 2004 contain words that the previous speaker Helen White noted were out of touch and would not have been used nowadays\u2014words that would have been used, actually, by senior figures of Government earlier today in question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI do note that, for example, the amendments to the Heretaunga Tamatea Claims Settlement Act has significant implications for M\u0101ori and Te Tiriti. This was actually a change that was proposed by the last Government explicitly as a correction to errors in the implementation of the Heretaunga Tamatea Treaty settlement, to give effect to the Treaty settlement. I do think these are good opportunities for the House to get things right, particularly for historical wrongs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAs others have noted, there are 42 Acts that are being amended as a result of this. They include the Accident Compensation Act, and, if you look alphabetically, it goes all the way down to the Wildlife Act. It just shows the breadth of the bills that are being touched on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EI do note that, for example, there are things in relation to how wages could be recovered and employment agreements. Those things are actually, like, I would not say necessarily minor in terms of the things that we\u2019re updating, and that is important to note.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003EAs the previous speaker noted, I would encourage submitters, despite our kind of reassurance that we treat this as minor and non-controversial, to pay close attention to the bills that are being updated, because sometimes submitters in the past have noted things that we have not gotten right. This would be an opportunity for submitters to just make sure that we are doing due diligence in this process so that the select committee process can be smooth. The Green Party will do our due diligence and engage in the select committee to make sure that we get this process right and that the legislation that we have reflects modern times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022 data-id=\u0022bff0d1af3f62487b84ff3fe8816aff6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bff0d1af3f62487b84ff3fe8816aff6d\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E The National Party, like all others in the House, supports this Statutes Amendment Bill. The contents of it have already been canvassed and I don\u2019t seek to repeat that. The Governance and Administration Committee is looking forward to receiving this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002289809535-e289-43e8-ad08-668cf3046ffb\u0022\u003EIf I can just use this through you, Mr Speaker\u2014and I think you\u2019ll probably be the most compliant Speaker for me to allow this\u2014the Restoring Citizenship Removed By Citizenship (Western Samoa) Act 1982 Bill second reading that has just gone through and been reported back to the House by the Governance and Administration Committee is set down in this House for 9 a.m. Thursday next week. We look forward to continuing to process that and we look forward to receiving the Governance and Administration Committee\u2014the Statutes Amendment Bill\u2014in due course. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00228cf24d48077140a3b011f5d924af3572\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228cf24d48077140a3b011f5d924af3572\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Andy Foster, speaking about that committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdd269dd63c847e68d6f60bfcd46775a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdd269dd63c847e68d6f60bfcd46775a\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, this is an exceptionally exciting bill to end the week with! Look, on the turn, this looked like a very routine, vanilla bill\u2014probably is. It\u2019s been described as common sense, as being administrative, as being routine, and as being one of those tidy-up bills. And there\u2019s a bit of modernisation in there as well. New Zealand First values good governance, and it has been interesting, actually, in a couple of select committee conversations, to hear some people say that everything is about politics. Well, not everything is about politics sometimes\u2014I think that portrays a sense of mind\u2014sometimes things are just about common sense and good governance, and that is what this bill is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an omnibus bill; it covers 42 Acts, and I\u2019m not going to go through 42 Acts. Generally, they\u2019re very minor changes. Actually, it was interesting because\u2014I pity the people who actually have to trawl through existing legislation and find these minor changes that need to be made; I admire them as well for the work they have to do. But there are things in terms of modernisation. We get rid of the requirement to advertise public notices in newspapers, because there are less of them. We remove the references to cheques. We update organisations\u2019 names, which used to be one thing and are now something slightly different. We are also looking here at updating the references to legislation which has been replaced by other legislation, so we get those names right. Actually, interestingly, there are also several pieces which are about fixing mistakes made by this House. That just shows that we\u2019re not perfect here, either. Sometimes, things have got to be fixed, and somebody picks those up, sometimes several years later.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to be really interested, as part of the Governance and Administration Committee\u2014at least I hope I\u2019m going to be really interested\u2014because it\u2019s going to be fascinating to see what the public makes of this! You never know, there might be some gems in there. There\u2019s a couple of favourites that I just wanted to point out to finish off with. The first one of them is the amendments to the Conservation Act 1987, and I was particularly taken by the addition of a new infringement offence to cover offences related to the taking of indigenous freshwater fish. So, while Freddy the frog might be in danger, Freddy the fish might be in a much better place after this change! I don\u2019t know about Eddy the eel; he might be covered by that as well. The most substantive change is around the Privacy Act. I think it\u2019s interesting to read the comments there, or the changes which are suggested, about access to information held about yourself and access by other people to information about other people, and also the complaints process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI commend the bill to the House, and I look forward to the Governance and Administration Committee considering this bill and any submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022 data-id=\u00225d9b3523087c4d8c97f05e4734c3e9de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d9b3523087c4d8c97f05e4734c3e9de\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. It looks like this bill is heading straight to our select committee, the Governance and Administration Committee, so I don\u2019t want to pre-empt what members of the public might want to say. It will be interesting to see some of the comments that come in on some things. I see some changes to Armed Forces Discipline Regulations and, of course, the Armed Forces Discipline Act. In particular, I have to note the changing of \u201Cairman\u201D to \u201Caviator\u201D and a bit of history, perhaps, is lost as that change gets brought through into law. It\u2019s all in the aim of modernising the language, just like they changed \u201Ccrewman\u201D to \u201Cloadmaster\u201D\u2014I\u2019m not sure \u201Cmaster\u201D is any less gendered, but that seems to be the way that the world goes\u2014so it\u2019ll be interesting to see what comments there are on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b9dc1924-4df4-4d8f-91ec-8a0f29348308\u0022\u003ERather than use up the House\u2019s time now going through in infinite detail on these changes, I look forward to members of the public having their say on how much tradition do we want to keep and how much do we need to change with the times. People will have their say, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u002283163d10ff8141278e776e66500c7dd7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283163d10ff8141278e776e66500c7dd7\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Most of us, I guess, come to this House to make transformational change to Aotearoa, but also there are the little bits of housekeeping that have to be done from time to time, and the Statutes Amendment Bill is one of them. Therefore, as has been said across the House, there\u2019s not a lot to say other than to move this quickly through to select committee. On this side of the House, we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022170b4429d5e2414eab7e863d92658a85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I was having\u2014\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022170b4429d5e2414eab7e863d92658a85\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):[Interruption] \u003C/span\u003EPretty excited for the Statutes Amendment Bill on this side of the House. I was having a quick flick through and I saw a couple and I thought, \u201CGosh, these are pretty straightforward.\u201D Crown Entities Act 2004: replace \u201CMinister of State Services\u201D with the \u201CMinister for the Public Service.\u201D Small, minor tweaks which may not mean much to the general public but are really important to make sure that our legislation in New Zealand is absolutely bang on the money. Employment Relations Act 2000: replace reference to section 28B of the Health and Safety in Employment Act 1992\u2014which has been repealed\u2014with section 191 of the Health and Safety at Work Act 2015 in section 233B.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003EThese are just minor tweaks in pieces of legislation. As a member of the Governance and Administration Committee, I\u2019m looking forward to progressing this legislation on behalf of the Government, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cad2ea93e0d742a9bb238003e41e8032\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cad2ea93e0d742a9bb238003e41e8032\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: [Hon Dr Duncan Webb and Hon David Parker rise to seek call] Bit of aerobics on a late afternoon in the House. I call the Hon Dr Duncan Webb.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00228e08034ad63d49eca5e0021294aae5a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e08034ad63d49eca5e0021294aae5a8\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E There you go\u2014you had two of the greatest legal minds leaping to their feet. What a choice for Mr Speaker! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELook, there\u2019s one thing I want to say about this, and that is around the money-laundering proposals. The Associate Minister of Justice has signalled the loosening of anti - money-laundering and the countering of financing of terrorism rules in a press release that she put out on, I think it was, Sunday. I must say, whilst this, in the Statutes Amendment Bill, looks innocuous, we do have concerns that we want to raise at select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EFor example, I think one of the changes here in this bill is simply to extend the reporting time for lawyers who have suspicious transactions from three days out to five days\u2014now, sounds reasonable, but we have to be very careful to take an all-of-system view of what\u2019s going on here and make sure that just by inches we don\u2019t see an erosion of our anti - money-laundering framework. We know that 19 roles were disestablished at the Department of Internal Affairs, including front-line staff who were assessing and investigating alleged money-laundering. Those two things in tandem are not a good look.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also worth noting that the Financial Action Task Force, which reported on New Zealand in July this year, found a number of non-compliances with the international requirements around money-laundering. I think we\u2019ve got to approach this with some caution. Certainly, there are people out there who think we\u2019re not pulling our weight on the money-laundering front. Martin Dilly and Fiona Hall have, in fact, said that that the actions of this Government are a \u201Csignal to businesses that the public sector is not interested in doing its part to ensure [the] success of [our anti - money-laundering] \u2026 regime\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s just keep a weather eye on this. It may well be that the two minor changes\u2014what appear to be minor changes\u2014are nothing to be alarmed about, but I do want to ask: but why? I mean, I have made Suspicious Transaction Reports: one for a cash transaction where people were paying their legal bill with a wad of cash\u2014fine by me, but then again, who knows where it came from\u2014the other one for a request to send money to Uganda, which was, again, suspicious. When the lights go off, it\u2019s not that hard to go online and let the police unit know that you\u2019ve got concerns. I don\u2019t know why you need to wait an extra two days before you do that. Let\u2019s have that discussion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe Minister\u2019s also signalled that she may look at examining how we finance anti - money-laundering. The idea that the private sector might participate in how we fund anti - money-laundering frameworks is perplexing to me. What I want to make sure of is that when we come in to look at this, we look not just at this tiny little amendment but how it fits in with the framework of anti - money-laundering and countering the financing of terrorism as a whole. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022 data-id=\u0022c32aab15be804aa6b39e8ae5dabbdf6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c32aab15be804aa6b39e8ae5dabbdf6f\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Well, there\u2019s a lot of excitement for this Statutes Amendment Bill here tonight. I\u2019m seeing two members on the other side of the House stand up in such anticipation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e14046f5321f41d5bf5966f1fb473f27\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: We all need a bit of exercise! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a3c957e78a542f287dd1ca96e8e70e4\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014who, obviously, want to speak about it. So I\u2019m very pleased to be the last speaker on this first reading of this bill tonight, which is really all about common sense. On this side of the House, we are always about common sense and ensuring that we have good, solid, modern laws in place here. Of course, this bill, as we\u2019ve already heard, is going to modernise and bring a lot of our legislation up to date. As the member opposite rightly pointed out earlier, it\u2019s a bit of a housekeeping bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sure the Governance and Administration Committee is going to hear some interesting submissions on this bill and navigate it through, because it certainly impacts quite a few different Acts. There\u2019s 96 proposals which amend 42 Acts administered by 14\u00A0Government agencies. It sounds complex, but, obviously, there are lots of little things that need sorting out, as we\u2019ve already heard, with the Crown Entities Act, the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act, the Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act, and\u00A0the Radiocommunications Act, just to name a few. Certainly, in the Real Estate Agents Act, they\u2019re going to replace the term \u201Cinconsequential\u201D with \u201Cnot sufficiently serious to require [disciplinary] action,\u201D. I mean, just that kind of language, obviously, bring us up to date in the modern world, and so this is a very, very good bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EIt certainly is non-controversial. It appears that everyone here in this House does support it because it is common sense. It\u2019s a practical solution. Therefore, I look forward to hearing the second reading and seeing this bill, of course, proceed through the House, and I will commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00229160f961c51a48a79a10f7409fec905c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229160f961c51a48a79a10f7409fec905c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Statutes Amendment Bill be considered by the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fc651120c2e4d35ac9d721da8f2eeec\u0022\u003EFisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022755a32d37f76441c83d9461421aaaab8\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9aba8d5c8954f97a35412e48fc7cecc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9aba8d5c8954f97a35412e48fc7cecc\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries: I present a legislative statement on the Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u002241422a30372c471fb50bbfd097df2847\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002241422a30372c471fb50bbfd097df2847\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222848964503f3433b9febaf8ccbfbc236\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThis bill will update the Fisheries Act to better meet our international obligations, and it will strengthen New Zealand\u2019s capacity to address illegal, unreported, and unregulated\u2014or IUU\u2014fishing. This bill has been considered by the Primary Production Committee, and it recommends that it be passed with amendments to a number of clauses, which I support in full.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI thank the Primary Production Committee members\u2014and, of course, I\u2019m speaking on behalf of the Hon Shane Jones\u2014for their support and constructive participation in considering this bill. I appreciate the time and effort the committee has taken to understand this bill and the complexities of the international fisheries framework. I also want to acknowledge the submitters who took time to express their views on this bill. Finally, I want to thank the Parliamentary Counsel Office, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and the Ministry for Primary Industries officials that contributed to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EBy way of background, New Zealand\u2019s international fisheries regime was established in our Fisheries Act almost a quarter of a century ago, in 1999. Since then, international obligations against IUU fishing have evolved. As I stated during the first reading, this bill responds to this context by updating the Fisheries Act, aligning it to best practice and allowing us to exert greater influence to prevent, deter, and eliminate IUU fishing. This is important because IUU fishing threatens New Zealand\u2019s interests in the Southern and Pacific Oceans. This was highlighted in the report on IUU fishing by the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee that was presented to this House in August last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI note that this bill was introduced by the previous Government and obtained support from all speakers in its first reading. This reflects New Zealand\u2019s unflinching commitment to the fight against illegal fishing, which the Government expressed in our response to the\u00A0report. It also shows the strong focus that this Government has on the delivery of outcomes that benefit all New Zealanders, and in particular those that contribute to our economic recovery. The bill will ensure that New Zealand continues to be a world leader in the sustainable management of our fisheries. Ensuring the sustainability of our fisheries protects our continued access to lucrative fisheries in the Pacific and the Southern Oceans, and seafood trade with important markets\u2014a position our $2\u00A0billion seafood export industry benefits from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe bill seeks to achieve these outcomes through two overarching objectives or aims. To remind you of these, they are, first, to enable New Zealand to better meet its international fishery management and compliance obligations in respect of IUU fishing; and, second, to improve the efficiency and clarity of the provisions and decision-making processes related to international fisheries. The bill will do these things by amending provisions in the following areas: first, the permitting regime for New Zealand vessels fishing outside our waters; second, the efficiency and effectiveness of actions against fishery violations; and, third, New Zealand\u2019s capacity to prevent and combat IUU fishing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EIt was against this international background that the Primary Production Committee undertook its scrutiny of the bill. I thank, once again, Mark Cameron for his chairing and committee members for their dedication. International fisheries governance is underpinned by a number of international legal instruments, and the committee has provided excellent insights as to how to best address this complexity. I thank you again for this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe Primary Production Committee recommended six changes to the bill. These changes align with the policy intent of the bill and improve several aspects. The first one relates to the evidence of authorisation by foreign country. Our international obligations require that fishing is duly authorised and the flag States are fully able to exercise responsibility over their vessels. The committee recommendations improve the change in the bill around the decision making on permits to provide greater clarity and certainty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe first recommendation in the committee report seeks to ensure that before issuing a permit, the fishing has been authorised by that country. Requiring a Ministry for Primary Industries permit for a New Zealand vessel to fish in another country is one main change in the bill. It enables us to strengthen our cooperation with the countries where New Zealand fishing vessels fish. Given that we share fisheries with our Pacific neighbours, strengthening this cooperation is in our best interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe second committee recommendation represents an improvement of the decision-making processes for issuing international permits. The committee recommends that, before making a decision, the Ministry for Primary Industries chief executive may take into account previous non-compliance in any jurisdiction. \u201CMay take into account\u201D means that non-compliance is something that the chief executive may consider but is not required to; that is, that previous non-compliance does not result in a mandatory decision to decline a permit. This enables proportionality in the decisions; ensures that we maintain a risk-based approach to assessing and responding to offending; and prevents undue, disproportionate consequences for the industry. A risk-based approach has also been taken by the committee in recommending changes to the power to suspend or revoke a permit to fish outside New Zealand waters where there\u2019s evidence of offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe third recommendation that the committee report notes is that a permit issued to fish in a foreign country and on the high seas must be fully suspended or revoked at the request of the foreign country. This addresses the risk that a vessel may offend in another country and continue fishing on the high seas, and ensures that New Zealand can exercise its responsibility to ensure that vessels do not undermine the effectiveness of international conservation and management measures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe fourth recommendation is to enable the chief executive to suspend or revoke an international fishing permit when an offence has been allegedly committed against the Fisheries Act within our waters, and this offence is of the most serious nature\u2014that is, knowingly making a false or misleading statement, using a false communication to obtain a benefit, or knowingly acting in contravention of the Act to obtain a benefit. This ensures that the powers can only be used for the most serious of suspected offending. It would also require a reasonable basis for the belief that the offending has occurred, and it would be limited to the permitted vessel, not to other vessels related to the permit holder. These limitations are foundational to ensure a correct and proportional application of these powers and to ensure that they enable New Zealand to fully exercise its responsibility as a flag State.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe fifth recommendation improves the process for operators, who can invoke a defence when breaking the permit conditions when it is necessary to comply with the laws of that country. The time frame to invoke this defence has been adjusted to make it more suitable to both the prosecution\u2019s and defendants\u2019 interests. Taken together, these recommendations are useful to improve the efficiency and clarity of the permitting provisions. Clear and efficient regulations are a fundamental part of the enabling environment to industry, and I thank the committee for recommending these changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EFinally, the last recommended change is a fine point of international law, and I thank the committee for its thoroughness in their examination of this bill. The recommendation would amend the clauses related to the detention of vessels in port. It would further clarify that the serious violation for which it is detained took place on the high seas. The vessel must be released on request of the vessel\u2019s flag State; whereas, if the violation took place in New\u00A0Zealand\u2019s exclusive economic zone, the vessel must be released on payment of the bond. This makes sure we correctly apply two cornerstones of international law on the oceans: the Law of the Sea, or U-N-C-L-O-S, and the UN Fish Stocks Agreement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282c16e09573a4d0db85a893370b054c5\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: UNCLOS.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3ab4fe5e7394558bf263d4beec09e39\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, UNCLOS\u2014thank you, Mr Parker. Taken together, these changes improve the bill by continuing to meet all the obligations I set out earlier. The recommended changes ensure that the bill is clear and fit for purpose. It provides the clarity and certainty that operators need to support the seafood sector\u2019s role in this export-led recovery of our economy and further strengthens New Zealand\u2019s ability to take effective action on IUU fishing. In conclusion, I thank those who contributed to the development of this bill, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022dea3eac98ca441399a5b80c7e91f6e23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dea3eac98ca441399a5b80c7e91f6e23\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Can I thank the Hon Andrew Bayly for that fair description of the bill. He\u2019s a man who prides himself on his maths, and, unfortunately, he must have read a speech that was prepared last year rather than this, because he will recall\u2014he\u2019s not going to sleep tonight when he realises this\u2014that he said that the 1999 legislation that this updates was prepared just about a quarter century ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289153b7e30b54b6e928a6fe824b173f9\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s a little bit more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221898803f891546feba6520fa32bd1658\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, it\u2019s a little bit more, he now concedes. It is, of course, a quarter of a century ago, because the difference between 1999 and the year 2024\u2014which we\u2019re nearing the end of\u2014is, of course, 25 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe main aspects of this bill that will be of interest to the House relate to illegal, unreported fishing\u2014IUU fishing: illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing. This occurs both within countries, but the bit that is dealt with particularly by this bill is fishing on the high seas. It\u2019s been very hard for the world to develop rules to control IUU fishing on the high seas, because it requires treaties because it is no one\u2019s territory. No one country can make laws that are effective to control fishing in that area. It\u2019s not so many decades ago that people used to say, as a saying, \u201CThere\u2019s plenty of fish in the sea.\u201D Sadly, that\u2019s not true in large parts of the world now because there has been overfishing of the fishing resource, including on the high seas. To combat that, you need an international treaty and then you need to give effect to the provisions of that treaty through domestic law so that Governments of the world can cooperate to enforce rules around fishing in the international waters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s a number of ways we do that in the Pacific\u2014and let\u2019s not forget that the fishery in the Pacific is the main source of not just food or protein for people living in Pacific islands; it\u2019s also the main revenue source for those island States. Fishing within their territorial seas, their exclusive economic zones\u2014their EEZs\u2014and the international waters are all very important in terms of the sustainability of the economies in the Pacific and the lives that people can live there and the food they can consume.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe USA is a force for good in this. They provide satellite imagery that records the beacons that all vessels that are fishing in these areas ought to be displaying. Unfortunately deliberately, some countries sometimes \u201Cgo dark\u201D\u2014is the phrase\u2014and they turn off their beacons so that they can\u2019t be tracked. In addition to the compliance activity, it\u2019s interesting that Governments around the world aren\u2019t doing enough and private sector NGOs are taking up some of the slack. There\u2019s a very wealthy New Zealander, who\u2019s been very, very successful, who\u2019s one of the funders of Sea Shepherd, who funds a fisheries enforcement vessel in the Pacific. It does wonderful work. He\u2019s also funding drones to police illegal fishing activity in the Caribbean and in parts of Central America, such is his belief in the importance of proper fisheries protection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, in order for that sort of surveillance to create enforcement activity, there have to be powers for Government agencies to take action where they find suspicious activity, and that\u2019s where this bill makes some important changes. This bill now makes it possible for New Zealand to enforce a licensing regime for New Zealanders and New Zealand - flagged vessels that are fishing on international waters, and creates enforcement powers to hold people to account for doing that properly. That\u2019s not all that contentious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhere this bill takes another step, which until recent years has been contentious, is the policing of actors that are not your own citizens who are fishing on the high seas. Until now, these people haven\u2019t been able to be conditioned, essentially, by New Zealand enforcement because we haven\u2019t had the laws to enforce rules on the international seas in respect of non - New Zealanders or unflagged vessels. These provisions are set out in, for example, clause 40 inserting a new section 113SA, and around there. There are powers now that will be conferred on New Zealand authorities to stop those vessels, particularly unflagged vessels, and to hold them up in port if they\u2019re in a New Zealand port, if there is a suggestion that they\u2019ve been involved in illegal activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ECan I thank the Primary Production Committee for working through these issues, and officials for working through these issues, because these issues of extraterritorial jurisdiction are quite complex. I\u2019m pleased that the Government is continuing with this legislation, which had input from the prior administration. It is good law and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab0ea70c0c5149159afae72a95721e15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab0ea70c0c5149159afae72a95721e15\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I think I might be speaking next week on this! I appreciate the previous speaker, Mr Parker. We did have very substantive briefings from the ministry, on this bill. The complexities of the challenge of managing illegal, unreported, and unregulated (IUU) fishing at sea became well understood by us, I think. It is an inherently challenging space: you have vessels from multiple jurisdictions that may be operating both inside our exclusive economic zone and then outside our exclusive economic zone, different flagged vessels, vessels belonging to different companies. The challenges of how you enforce regulations around illegal, unregulated, or unreported fishing became very clear to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EOne of the things we canvassed somewhat was what does one do when a ship that is registered in New Zealand is behaving poorly in international waters. How do we manage that? Or vice versa, when there is a ship that is flagged to a different nation that is breaking international fishing rules in the jurisdiction that we have some say over. How do you manage the right to, for example, impound the vessel and take action that could be deemed as challenging in terms of the jurisdiction of our nation over that nation\u2019s flagged vessel? One of the things we got to was the necessity to get the permission of the flagged nation to take that action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThis is an interesting instance of a bill that had a small number of very substantive submissions\u2014I think a total of six submissions only, but they were of very high calibre and quality. It\u2019s sort of a telling example of where scrutiny that can be made by those with sophisticated understanding of a complex issue is very helpful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI note that the Environment and Conservation Organisations of NZ Inc. submitted expanding the scope of the bill to include wider international obligations relating to the conservation of biodiversity and marine pollution, international human rights, environmental impacts, and impacts on host communities and indigenous people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWe have major challenges with the way that vessels operate outside of exclusive economic zones in international waters, and one of the obvious ones is slavery, where extremely poor and challenging working conditions are experienced by workers. There was a suggestion that we could broaden the scope of the bill to allow that; it was determined and advised by the ministry that we should not do that. Some of us on the committee would have liked to have done that, but we determined not to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EAnother submission we received, from the Deep Sea Conservation Coalition, made several requests: relating to the criteria that must be met before issuing an international fishing permit, and offending in New Zealand waters should be included in the IUU fishing definition\u2014in a way, a definition that would trigger the automatic decline of a permit\u2014and the post-offence stand-down time frames precluding vessels from being issued permits should be extended. Where a vessel has been restricted, or when there\u2019s an offence alleged to have been committed, the challenge is that that vessel still may be able to operate until such time as that a resolution is made about that offence, so there is a need for there to be some sort of right or jurisdiction of the authority to actually suspend that vessel. It\u2019s analogous to putting somebody on remand before their case has been heard, though they are regarded as innocent until proven guilty\u2014it still may be regarded as necessary that the vessel should be restricted until such time it\u2019s deemed that they did commit that offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s questions about how readily a company can get back a vessel that has been restricted, with a liability fee placed on that vessel. It could be that it\u2019s too easy: in some instances, the cost of the bond may in fact be less than the cost or the value of the fish that was illegally fished. That is something that could potentially be improved in future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EOn the whole, this is an example of New Zealand trying to keep pace with the inherent challenges of managing that commons that is the oceans; that resource that is of good for all of us, for our environmental health, for the provision of nutrition to people. We are part of that global challenge. This legislation is an example of us working within the international community and within international law to achieve the best outcome for our fisheries, for our oceans, and for, indeed, all people of this planet. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d021a36343944077938050dcdf986eba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d021a36343944077938050dcdf986eba\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 22\u00A0October 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202410174acdfaa98a884ee9a78b5ddc101bfa4a000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"