"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228caaeb174f6a4b5881b279e36a3d3027\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 22 OCTOBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002248af48caa5604ffeb22f3fe7abae1a04\u0022\u003ETUESDAY, 22 OCTOBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f580af5f45514d739f830d74394a9d47\u0022\u003EKARAKIA/PRAYERS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d454d869d1f0423c834209b7a945ece4\u0022\u003EKARAKIA/PRAYERS\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbc60dc65e6c422daa8d63e203042d8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbc60dc65e6c422daa8d63e203042d8e\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ab567cab8d6b4c56866800a7b3c956e8\u0022\u003EList MEMBER vacancy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df356c56dc544425b67ca96319c03b67\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand\u2014Darleen Tana\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022469b46ee15b84c55ad8d03b037a040bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022469b46ee15b84c55ad8d03b037a040bb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I wish to advise the House that the seat of Darleen Tana became vacant by application of section 55(1)(fa) and 55A of the Electoral Act 1993 on 22 October 2024. This is a serious matter and the first time that the provisions inserted into the Electoral Act by way of amendment in 2018 have been used to declare a seat vacant. It\u2019s not a matter that I\u2019ve taken lightly, since it affects the composition of the House. I\u2019ve taken advice and carefully considered the law. I\u2019m satisfied that the motion delivered to me by the parliamentary leaders of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand complies with section 55C of Electoral Act 1993 and is accompanied by a statement that meets the requirements of section 55D of that Act. Accordingly, I\u2019ve given notice that the seat has become vacant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022464e71b40c2441088264642df64889e5\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022223c52969b1948ef895431ee6dfbb637\u0022\u003EYouth Justice Facility\u2014Government Efforts to End Protest\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca3ab1de766e4b098e9f01ef77caad06\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca3ab1de766e4b098e9f01ef77caad06\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I\u2019ve received a letter from Willow-Jean Prime seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the Government\u2019s efforts to end a protest at a youth justice residence. This is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. However, it does not reach the threshold of being urgent enough to warrant setting aside the business of the House today. The application is declined. Petitions have been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d018f9d20aa94b3dbfe83f70fb36f5e2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248f5de8cc5f045fa924d58439c94836b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014well, I\u2019m on my feet, so let me sit down and I\u2019ll be able to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8c387f2f9ec4ba192156b0bc8622805\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019re moving on to something different now and I want to address the matter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251ec8284b3d544a68d0edf29bbcd6aac\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019ve done it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221610e47eb3494735b2e7f298d9a58630\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014you first raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222606f3c23f5e4ede9992309964e515d5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022886e4679fdc74b0d96363b9170021d55\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why the point of order is appropriate now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022253651ee0e1842319aebd443fef69ae5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I know, but you don\u2019t do it while I\u2019m on my feet. I\u2019m sorry to be pedantic but today is a day for getting everything right. The Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1abba4f36cc43fab2deec019089bd2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1abba4f36cc43fab2deec019089bd2e\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Well, then, Mr Speaker, a pause between announcements would be how you do that, but here\u2019s the point\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2f64cbf95334e28925f93b1e338d6df\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, can you start\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c0001573e643d5a7882d84e4e1b3c1\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because they have communication with you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237d3e6c6ba464e4397fd366154862ff1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, I did not hear what the member just said. Can we have silence while there is a point of order being spoken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cff28577fae14df7b1470ed7977e8202\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: I said a brief pause between each announcement, so that an appropriate point of order could be raised at the right time, would be proper, otherwise one has no opportunity to follow the Standing Orders and make a point of order at the right time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208bfb12a6d334b02a5681c4fa0230537\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, look, I thank the member for again giving me instruction about how this job should be carried out. I resist offering similar advice to him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022041b1b6fe1944ae0821a06132f7b912a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Unlike others, we welcome all advice. Mr Speaker, just by way of inquiry, as the communication with you was somewhat private, was there an addendum from the Green Party thanking the movers of that legislation from 2018 that came to their help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c5346564e444695a59ee541810a84cf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, what\u2019s the point of order, sorry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221173a7aedf6744c299847875b61e156a\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the point of order was: was there an addendum to their communication with you, thanking the party and the mover of the changed law in 2018 to revive the \u201Cwaka hopping bill\u201D, in gratitude for that interposition back then, that assisted them to be the first ones ever to use it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00224f07e9da4cc84c1c9e322d90429c17df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f07e9da4cc84c1c9e322d90429c17df\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member will know, of course, that the Electoral Act was amended in 2018 and is very prescriptive about the process from this point. So any material that would be of historic nature, apart from material relating directly to the concerns expressed by the Green Party leaders, is not something that I\u2019ve been supplied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b39aa58dd4314393b9ca88ece57105e8\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: So they didn\u2019t say \u201Cthank you\u201D, then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0f537cb2a484efc89629f4b9c6defd8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0f537cb2a484efc89629f4b9c6defd8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, well, the Rt Hon Winston Peters, I\u2019m sure that there\u2019ll be appropriate thanks offered to you in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022855713b816e341faa8b5cc25e3620eea\u0022\u003Epetitions, papers, select committee reports, and introduction of bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022722b68e11b534a7483f784a9b48b4bd3\u0022\u003Epetitions, papers, select committee reports, and introduction of bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022869dce8f27a74c668806d50466fdf16a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022869dce8f27a74c668806d50466fdf16a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A petition has been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6fc79e6edab42e7bb648c4951937407\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6fc79e6edab42e7bb648c4951937407\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: Petition of Jody Devine requesting that the House establish an organ donor register in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022e0a22803193041ab95b04e5ed83271b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e0a22803193041ab95b04e5ed83271b3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That petition stands referred to the Petitions Committee. Twenty-seven papers have been delivered by Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00222bd3eaa3785245e9b385d38e310aaff2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222bd3eaa3785245e9b385d38e310aaff2\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E2023-24 annual reports of:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EAir New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EDepartment of Conservation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EDepartment of Corrections\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EEducation Review Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EGambling Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMinistry of Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EDepartment of Internal Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMinistry of Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMinistry for Women\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMeridian Energy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ENatural Hazards Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EOffice of the Ombudsman\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EOranga Tamariki\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMinistry for Pacific Peoples\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EParliamentary Counsel Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPublic Trust Office\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ESouthern Response Earthquake Services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EExecutive Board for the Elimination of Family Violence and Sexual Violence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETe Puni K\u014Dkiri\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMinistry of Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EVote Business, Science and Innovation reports on:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Enon-departmental appropriations for the year ended 30 June 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe police portfolio\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe regional development portfolio\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe resources portfolio\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Estrategic intentions for 2024-28 for the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMinistry of Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EDepartment of Internal Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Estatement of intent 2024-28 for the Ministry for Women\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EGovernment response to the Report of the Regulations Review Committee on secondary legislation made under the Severe Weather Emergency Recovery Legislation Act 2023.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022a60328375da84b5a963dee3b33c70369\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a60328375da84b5a963dee3b33c70369\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7520d99206d4da4b5aa41ff2b1a0119\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7520d99206d4da4b5aa41ff2b1a0119\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003EReport of the Education and Workforce Committee on the 2022-23 annual report of Te P\u016Bkenga - New Zealand Institute of Skills and Technology\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereports of the Environment Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EFast-track Approvals Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment Erratum: A review of freshwater models used to support the regulation and management of freshwater in New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Petitions Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Andrew Munro\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Louise Duffy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003Ereport of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee on the briefing on health and safety for road construction and maintenance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u0022bcb93a58d8224c8783ebb7608f1b1707\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bcb93a58d8224c8783ebb7608f1b1707\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for second reading. The reports and briefings are set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4a734b785a847f38df7f544cd99c068\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0be04820dec41e2a51c8aaadd7d6a79\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Sporting Success\u2014Congratulations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8d286bfecf240ed85c7d434c402ba51\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8d286bfecf240ed85c7d434c402ba51\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister for Sport and Recreation):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to move a motion without notice to celebrate our sporting successes over the weekend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022664ee2969ed3408e91f83dd255d8bc89\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228651af521e3240c3a450dafb9dd97681\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House congratulate Team New Zealand, the White Ferns, the Black Caps, the Silver Ferns, the Paddle Ferns, Ally Wollaston, Hayden Wilde, and Liam Lawson on their exceptional sporting performances over the weekend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EAs Minister for Sport and Recreation and on behalf of the Government, I would like to congratulate all of these athletes on a phenomenal weekend of sport for New Zealand. It was an epic weekend, one we haven\u2019t had for a long time. The first win, of course, was Emirates Team New Zealand on match point, taking to the water against INEOS Britannia. As everyone knows, I think, Taihoro came out on top, 37 seconds ahead of their rivals. It was an historic moment for New Zealand, the first time any team has won the cup three times in more than 30 years. What an exceptional achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThe next sporting victory was the Black Caps, who won the first test against India, just our third win against India in India ever, and our first win in India since 1988\u2014when some members of the House were not born, and I was just five years old. I\u2019d like to pay a special congratulations to the Hutt Valley\u2019s own Rachin Ravindra, Man of the Match, a century in the first innings, helping to chase down the target in the second innings. A great day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThen, a brilliant game from the Silver Ferns, who took on the Diamonds in the Constellation Cup; 64-50 was the final score, the highest the Silver Ferns have ever scored against the Diamonds in regular time\u2014a fantastic start to what I am sure will be a great series.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ESomething that didn\u2019t get a lot of attention over the weekend from our media was the Paddle Ferns, our women\u2019s canoe polo team, who were in China. They took out the finals, with a dominant performance against Italy, continuing its long line of excellence in this sport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we had the White Ferns in the wee early hours of Monday morning, beating South Africa in the Women\u2019s T20 World Cup in Dubai, our first world cup since the One Day International Cup back in 2000, in New Zealand, and Wellington\u2019s Amelia Kerr was the star of the show.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ETo round it out, a terrific weekend for Ally Wollaston, competing in the UCI Track Cycling World Championships in Denmark\u2014not one but two gold medals, a bronze, and a fourth-placing, the most ever achieved by a single UCI track world champs by a New Zealand rider. Hayden Wilde won the series finale of the World Triathlon Championship in Spain. And there were many other outstanding performances: Liam Lawson, Auckland FC, the Breakers\u2014I could keep going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003ETo all the athletes who did so well on the world stage this weekend, the House would like you to know, and the Government would like you to know, that New Zealand is very proud of you. To all the coaches, volunteers, family, and friends, thank you for everything you\u2019ve done to help New Zealand shine on the world stage. On behalf of the Government and New Zealanders, we want to congratulate every single one of these outstanding athletes, and I hope you now get to have a brief rest and soak up the victory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022 data-id=\u00229f73637695b3464fad1d17b986058a9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f73637695b3464fad1d17b986058a9e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022 data-id=\u00227d24747d5a094e20a6881fa937bc5e93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d24747d5a094e20a6881fa937bc5e93\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to support the Government\u2019s motion to congratulate the country\u2019s sporting success over the weekend. Rarely if ever has one period of 48 hours brought so much success and joy across this many sports, and it is destined to be long remembered as perhaps the most glorious weekend in our sporting history. Congratulations to Team New Zealand on once again bringing the America\u2019s Cup back home. I want to acknowledge Peter Burling, his crew, and the aptly named Taihoro, also supported by Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua\u2014so, from my perspective, a sporting victory as well as a cultural one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ENearly 8,000 kilometres away, the Black Caps won a test match in India for the first time in nearly 36 years, and for only the third time ever. India were heavily fancied to win this game before the Black Caps\u2019 bowling attack got rolling, and eventually skittled India out for 46\u2014their lowest total at home, ever. India did fight back to make the Black Caps bat again, but the Black Caps were not to be denied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ENot to be outdone, the Silver Ferns continued a great New Zealand tradition of beating the Australians. With the world champions arriving on our shores for a three-game series, game one on Sunday was meant to be close but the Silver Ferns put in an incredible performance to beat the Diamonds to 14 goals\u2014a margin they haven\u2019t emulated since 2010.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ESpeaking of world champions: congratulations\u2014as the Minister\u2019s already mentioned\u2014must go to the New Zealand Paddle Ferns. A dominant victory over Italy and China means this is the second time the New Zealand team has won this particular tournament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003ETruth be told, and without wanting to minimise all our other teams\u2019 incredible sporting achievements, this weekend belonged to the White Ferns\u2014what a story. After 10 consecutive losses in the build-up to the ICC Women\u2019s T20 World Cup, no one outside of these shores thought they could do it. This was more than just an improbable triumph or a case of a miracle on the pitch. To chalk it up to just that would be a disservice to what they have truly accomplished. This was a team united and driven towards a common goal and shared values: namely hard work, a sound strategy, and a team-first attitude, all done with positivity and a hard-but-fair approach to the game. This success was not just incredible due to the fact that they won but also because of how they won; it should be an inspiration to each and every one\u00A0of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s always difficult to single out an individual in a team sport; however, congratulations to Amelia Kerr, who snatched both player of the match and player of the tournament. Congratulations to her and the White Ferns on an achievement that should go straight to the\u00A0pool room of New Zealand sporting success. Not to get ahead of ourselves, but with the\u00A0Twenty20 cricket returning to the Summer Olympics in LA 2028, one can\u2019t help but get excited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e77494a0-1be1-432f-b492-fd160f4c119d\u0022\u003EA shout out must also go to Hayden Wilde, who won the final race of the year and came third in the World Triathlon series; and Auckland FC, who played in and won their first ever game in an A-League in a sellout Go Media Stadium in Auckland. On behalf of the Labour Party: congratulations to everyone who played their part in what was undoubtedly the most successful weekend ever in the history of New Zealand sport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u002208ac170fe63b44adbb4569817356659e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208ac170fe63b44adbb4569817356659e\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is an absolute privilege to stand here today in the House to acknowledge and celebrate this extraordinary weekend of sporting triumphs for Aotearoa. Our athletes have done us proud across a variety of disciplines, proving that Aotearoa punches well above its weight on the global stage. These sporting achievements not only highlight individual and team brilliance but also showcase the resilience and determination that New Zealand athletes consistently bring to the world stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ESport plays a crucial role in shaping Aotearoa\u2019s identity. It teaches us a valuable lesson about the importance of teamwork. Sport\u2019s also a reminder that it\u2019s more than just competition; it builds a sense of belonging and pride for our nation. From grassroots to elite competitions, these wins over the weekend reflect the passion and hard work invested at every level of sport in Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EAbove all, it showcased the immense talent in women\u2019s sport, with the White Ferns, the Silver Ferns, and the Paddle Ferns all excelling on the world stage. The triumphs of the women\u2019s teams will inspire future generations of young women to see that they belong in sport and they too can achieve greatness. It\u2019s a reflection of the very successful Strategy for Women and Girls in Sport and Active Recreation established in 2018 by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and sport and recreation Minister Grant Robertson, and we are reaping the benefits now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ELike the others before me, I do want to acknowledge the White Ferns, who stunned the cricketing world by winning their first ever T20 world cup in Dubai. Sophie Devine\u2019s leadership, Melie Kerr\u2019s all-round brilliance, and Suzie Bates\u2019 poise under pressure led us to a 32-run victory over South Africa. It\u2019s a demonstration that grit and belief can turn any situation around. That\u2019s an inspiring victory, and it will give girls across the nation the ability to dream big.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EWe think about the Silver Ferns bringing their A-game to the netball court, defeating Australia 64 to 50 in the first Constellation Cup match. This is their biggest win over Australia in 14 years. Dame Noeline Taurua\u2019s squad delivered a performance that not only restored pride but also opened the door to reclaiming the Constellation Cup, inspiring generations of netballers to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EAnd the Black Caps defeated India by eight wickets in Bengaluru, achieving their first test victory on Indian soil in 36 years. Beating India at home is a monumental achievement in the cricketing world, demonstrating our players can succeed anywhere, under any conditions. The Prime Minister might want to take some lessons after his failure to achieve a free-trade agreement with India.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EBut the America\u2019s Cup victory\u2014winning the oldest sporting competition in the world\u2014is no small feat, and to do it three times in a row cements New Zealand\u2019s place in sailing history. I\u2019m talking about the America\u2019s Cup, because more than the Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua \u014Cr\u0101kei waka, Te Kawau, that highlighted New Zealand\u2019s rich M\u0101ori heritage and maritime traditions on the global stage, the outpouring of support from fans and the team\u2019s M\u0101ori welcome on their return show the importance of Te Tiriti to our nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s not forget the Paddle Ferns, conquering the world championships in Deqing, China, with a 6-1 win over Italy. This is their second world title, their teamwork another great golden moment for Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EFrom cricket fields to netball courts, sailing regattas to canoe polo arenas, these victories are a reflection of New Zealand\u2019s sporting spirit\u2014gritty, determined, and full of heart. We\u2019re proud not only of their trophies and medals but of the stories of resilience, teamwork, and pride behind every win. To our athletes and teams, thank you for representing Aotearoa with such distinction. You have given us all something to cheer for and have reminded us why sport is such a unifying force in our country. You have modelled the value of striving through blood, sweat, and tears to achieve our goals. We in the Greens salute you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022 data-id=\u0022353951437b904d2082a97cf219fe128a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022353951437b904d2082a97cf219fe128a\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m proud to take this call on behalf of the ACT Party. We join with New Zealand in being full of immense pride in sharing with the incredible achievements of our national teams and individuals who represented us so well over the weekend across multiple sporting disciplines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003ETeam New Zealand secured their third America\u2019s Cup victory in Barcelona. The Taihoro flew across the water and amazed the crowds, yet again. Liam Lawson, we know you had to be patient and wait for 18 Formula One weekends, but, boy, was it worth it. Converting a grid 19 start to a ninth-place finish is simply incredible. Our Silver Ferns then stepped up against the world champion Australian Diamonds in the Constellation Cup, delivering their highest ever score against their rivals in regular time: 64-50. The Paddle Ferns: a dominating display in the 2024 ICF Canoe Polo World Championships in China. That 6-1 victory over Italy wasn\u2019t just a win; it was a clear testimony to all the athletes\u2019 training and hard work. The Black Caps added to our glory with their historic test victory in India, our third ever on Indian soil and our first since 1988\u2014man, that was good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EI would be remiss\u2014and how could we forget the Bay of Plenty Steamers? Their victory in the National Provincial Championship semi-final against Canterbury wasn\u2019t just any win; it was their most significant triumph since claiming the Ranfurly Shield from Auckland back in 2004. The victory and the buzz that has been alive in the Bay of Plenty following the extraordinary season from the Steamers shows that the spirit of rugby in the regions of New Zealand is alive and well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EOur White Ferns capped off this extraordinary weekend by claiming the T20 World Cup in Dubai, their first world cup victory since 2000. Sophie Devine\u2019s leadership and Amelia Kerr\u2019s all-round performance exemplified this fighting spirit that defines New Zealand cricket. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cfc7092e-b202-4acf-aa9c-8aebd551cc39\u0022\u003EThese achievements represent more than just victories, they embody the Kiwi spirit of punching well above our weight and never backing down from a challenge. What a great time to celebrate excellence, and what a great time to recognise it across a diverse area of sporting disciplines. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1a824fd40bd43d181e3036e94e8a44d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1a824fd40bd43d181e3036e94e8a44d\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. What a sporting weekend. It\u2019s time for congratulations of all our athletes, the coaches present and past\u2014the coaches who helped those athletes to develop over time\u2014the management, the support teams, and the sponsors. I think we can all be\u2014and this is why we have these debates in Parliament\u2014proud, as fellow Kiwis. We are a small country, but we box well above our weight. We\u2019ve already heard about the Silver Ferns, the biggest win over Australia in a very long time, and we wish them well. I think the next game is tonight, so I wish them well for that. The Black Caps, winning for the first time in a test match in India for 36 years. The White Ferns winning the 9th edition of the T20 World Cup.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI specifically want to focus on two other teams: Emirates Team New Zealand (ETNZ). The \u201Cthree-peat\u201D, as they say, is now complete. ETNZ has won five of the last nine regattas, and if you look back at it, at least three of the other teams that have won those regattas have also had an important Kiwi presence. I want to congratulate the team, the sponsors who stuck through it with ETNZ through many, many years, but especially to congratulate the boat designers, the team that designed the boats, designed Taihoro, led by a Briton\u2014in this case, Dan Bernasconi\u2014and the boat-building team led by Geoff Senior. Now, the America\u2019s Cup is not just about athleticism, but it\u2019s also very much about design and innovation. New Zealand, through the America\u2019s Cup of the last few decades, has been very much a part of innovation in boat building and also how to present the sport on the TV and other screens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EWhile we celebrate the support and the sport and the creativity that\u2019s involved here, let\u2019s also remember we also need to back our creativity, our innovation, right across our country, right across our economic performance as well, because if we don\u2019t do that, we\u2019re never going to lift the productivity that we need to lift. If we want to box above our weight in sport, we also need to box at least to our weight in economic performance, because we can do much better there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019d also like to say that most of these sports have had significant support from central or local government. And that in a way is why we can all say we\u2019re proud of their performance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI do want to finish with the Paddle Ferns. The Paddle Ferns, the women\u2019s canoe polo team, the world champions who won the title, as we\u2019ve heard, 6-1 over Italy. But they\u2019ve had to do this the hard way. They\u2019ve had to raise all their own money without local government or central government support. They\u2019ve done their own fund-raising, getting individual sponsors. The parents have supported them as well, and so I think that they deserve a special congratulations. I know they\u2019re a very close team. I know that at least in one round of that, they had to play through illness, and that was the one game that they lost against Germany in the final round of the pool play.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227dbfbd83-6770-4555-8477-85fa01511504\u0022\u003EI also reflect that while New Zealand has won this title before, it was very much a different team. It was eight years ago in Poland. And so for most of the players who are there now\u2014in fact, I think for all of the players who are there now\u2014this is their first victory. I just want to particularly congratulate coach Andrew McFadzean and captain Kate Blincoe, a special shout-out to Georgia Wheeler, and the New Zealand Canoe Polo Association for all the work they\u2019ve done\u2014and, I understand, something like 30 parents and supporters, who were apparently the loudest group of supporters in the whole competition, who went to support them. I\u2019d also like to say on behalf of the House, congratulations to the Paddle Ferns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u00222ece3a1bddb24ab5bc785edad30e2706\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ece3a1bddb24ab5bc785edad30e2706\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora e te P\u012Bka. I\u2019d like to make a short call on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and thank the Minister for Sport and Recreation for bringing this to the House. I think it\u2019s really important that we start the week with something we all agree on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I\u2019d like to give huge congratulations to all the athletes involved, their excellence, the excellence and commitment of their w\u2019\u0101nau, the sacrifices and commitments of their wider sporting communities. Just to repeat the names, as we\u2019ve heard today: the Auckland Football Club, who defeated Brisbane Roar by 2 to nil; Team New Zealand, who achieved their historic feat by defending the America\u2019s Cup and becoming the first team to win the competition three times in a row on their waka Taihoro, which was rightly named and blessed by Ng\u0101ti W\u2019atua; the Black Caps, which have made history by securing their best wins in nearly 95 years against India on Indian soil, as we\u2019ve all heard\u2014my understanding, the first time in 36 years; the Silver Ferns, who also beat world champions Australia; the Paddle Ferns; the White Ferns\u2019 cricket win, which I understood was probably the real shocker for the weekend, defeating South Africa by 32 runs; Liam Lawson, Formula One, who finished 9th at the Texas Grand Prix; and Hayden Wilde, who I haven\u2019t heard mentioned but also, in triathlon, he won the 2024 World Triathlon Elite Men Champion at the final held in Spain over the weekend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EIt definitely shows what our nation is capable of, and a huge mihi to all of those who invest not only time but resources into our sporting fraternity. I unfortunately didn\u2019t get to watch all of them, but I do want to do a little shout-out for our local Ng\u0101ti Ruanui sports festival, where there are at least eight disciplines and all the budding little athletes coming forward for some of the successful teams that we heard won in the weekend. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c69a16da3b854034847c7ca11f9b7930\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229725ee1f18004f5cb292bea330682e5b\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221efcf92e11ca4bf4be7350666f4c825a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5a5603f8a844cfe91f2ec0beb471b0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5a5603f8a844cfe91f2ec0beb471b0a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddd9817af7ef4655b859a93647be3144\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddd9817af7ef4655b859a93647be3144\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and especially our action to deliver modern, reliable infrastructure for New Zealand. I was absolutely thrilled on Monday to announce\u2014alongside the Minister of Transport, Simeon Brown\u2014that work had started on our Government\u2019s first road of national significance this week, which of course is the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway. Roads of national significance have made a massive difference for local economies, whether that\u2019s the Waikato Expressway or the K\u0101piti Expressway, and now that\u2019s coming to the Hawke\u2019s Bay. The good news is that early works are starting now and that will bring forward the time of completion by 12 to 15 months, ensuring that the project is delivered faster so that Kiwis see the benefits sooner. It\u2019s all part of our plan to rebuild the economy and get New Zealand back on track. And Mr Speaker, given the recent remarks, it would be remiss of me not to acknowledge the Thames Valley Swamp Foxes for their win in the Meads Cup on the weekend as well. Thank you. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b7d548d92de4251882e72183c9de094\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is just a little bit too rowdy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0747f6f80b84a009075b488d585c7af\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why does a Minister in his Government calling somebody a \u201Closer\u201D for working late and telling him to \u201CTake some wine and [eff] off\u201D not warrant any formal sanction from him as Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d413a6ff2329476b92ed554d0a6d7430\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve said publicly, I was disappointed in the Minister\u2019s conduct. It didn\u2019t meet my standards; it didn\u2019t meet the standards of what we expect from Ministers. But he has subsequently genuinely apologised, acknowledged the wrong, and assured me it won\u2019t happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022670cacabb3774feeb75f6d26d706f2d8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is he confident that Andrew Bayly had not consumed any alcohol when he berated an export worker for the very fact that he was working, and, if not, will he commit to removing Mr Bayly\u2019s ministerial warrant if it\u2019s proven that he indeed was under the influence of alcohol when he behaved inappropriately?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f0bf956712044c18ad228bc1b916583\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Look, the Minister accepts that his behaviour was not acceptable and he accepts the overall account of the events. I understand the member has a fellow colleague who\u2019s asking a direct question to the Minister and I\u2019m sure he\u2019ll give a fulsome answer to that question on notice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223674b480c9ce4f29bea6be297daa6a60\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That was not the question that I asked him. I asked him whether he was confident that Andrew Bayly had not consumed any alcohol and if it was proven that he had, whether he would remove his ministerial warrant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e955d748fcad49e3925b40d3203433a9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the question had been that precise it might have got a more precise answer, but Prime Minister might want to add to his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f886ea6d0c294368b5a5e6fb8d2408ab\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I understand the Minister was not impacted by alcohol when he had the interaction with the individual in concern, but, again, the member has a colleague who\u2019s asking a question of the Minister. I\u2019m sure he\u2019ll give a very fulsome account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e5f4e385c7044f2a42609f62c23a04b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Had Andrew Bayly visited a brewery immediately prior to the business visit where he called a warehouse worker a \u201Closer\u201D, made \u2018L\u2019 signs on his forehead, and told him to \u201C[eff] off and go home\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfc0a49f6b864305af651219c7fb5e58\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve said, the Minister has accepted that his behaviour was unacceptable and fell short. He\u2019s actually apologised to the person concerned. He\u2019s apologised to me and reassured me it won\u2019t happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289b712acc42c407bafb3f4b7bd5eafdf\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee8abeab29a1497c9db97c0297374cb2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014OK. I think\u2014repeat the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9ab41866a284fe1a19017f9670b59ed\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Had Andrew Bayly visited a brewery immediately prior to the business visit where he called a warehouse worker a \u201Closer\u201D, made \u2018L\u2019 signs on his forehead, and told him to \u201C[eff] off and go home\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b8ec23bb3394b2584adfbae37c3edf6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not aware of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cadd8c82665c4ef9887b6d40ed4612df\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. If you follow that question very carefully, it\u2019s loaded with innuendo and it\u2019s also confusing, because when he finished the question, you weren\u2019t certain whether it was the first event he was talking about or the second one. A bit of straight common sense and logic would be very helpful for those of us trying to follow the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e149779f080047e389e5c0cde6057f90\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014well, perhaps I\u2019ve got a fuzzy logic, because I understood it quite clearly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b135015d91cc49659e35fed4a87cc6a5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Did Andrew Bayly inform him that a formal complaint had been made about his conduct during an official ministerial visit when the complaint was\u00A0received, or did he find out when the complainant distributed the complaint more widely?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c82735333245778a9c5b87dfdc6c07\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, the Minister was\u2014I\u2019m notified that he\u2019d caused insult and hurt to the person involved. He apologised immediately and thought the issue was resolved; clearly it wasn\u2019t. The first I heard about it was on Thursday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc8795ef4ad64526a6b8a78261c439ec\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why didn\u2019t Andrew Bayly apologise directly to the worker who made the complaint until the complainant raised the issue with the Prime Minister; instead, including his initial apology in a letter to the worker\u2019s employer, thanking them for his visit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224a5e8ea390445eb9d1a606d8609b400\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in that letter, when it was brought to his attention, he passed on his sincere apologies to the worker. He\u2019s also subsequently sent a letter directly to the individual concerned, offering to meet either by telephone or in person. That of course is up to the complainant to determine whether they wish to accept that offer or not. What\u2019s important for me is that he\u2019s acknowledged that he got it very wrong. He\u2019s apologised both to me and to the complainant, and, importantly, he\u2019s given me assurances it will not happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221dbd2811-8e58-4ffb-848d-31c0eaa9690a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af6c7b9755f440d7b595d50e39474850\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How can he have confidence in Andrew Bayly if he hasn\u2019t even asked him basic questions about exactly what happened that led to a warehouse worker feeling \u201Cdegraded, embarrassed, and deeply disrespected in front of my colleagues\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288a81cd1c0944554b2d48ab6f4a30f55\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as the Minister has said, and as I have said, he has acknowledged the hurt and insult that he has caused. His remarks were wrong and that\u2019s what we have talked about and we\u2019ve gone through that account on Friday. He has apologised and he\u2019s assured us it won\u2019t happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220521c55439bf47e2a9eef13e4ecf7c13\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3cc4a9459844a0d808a903d2a1316a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3cc4a9459844a0d808a903d2a1316a3\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022508d04590b1644fcad8a7664be9bb528\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022508d04590b1644fcad8a7664be9bb528\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, and especially our action to unleash renewable energy through fast track. We know that New Zealand needs more renewable energy to unleash growth, to keep electricity prices down, and to ensure that we achieve our emissions targets. That\u2019s why it\u2019s so exciting\u2014very exciting\u2014that the fast-track bill includes 22 renewable energy projects enabling 3 gigawatts of generation, or about 30 percent of current capacity, for New Zealand\u2019s grid. Those projects include seven wind farms, 10 solar farms, and five hydro schemes. The Greens say they care about climate change. We\u2019ve heard the talk, now it\u2019s time to walk the walk. Support the fast-track bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adc5cfac98914201b6bd257e7f630599\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What, in the Prime Minister\u2019s opinion, is the difference between running a company and a country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022106c0cea01de405d865225faec37eeba\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re completely different things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288b63612744349dd95d1470967bd956d\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: What, in the Prime Minister\u2019s opinion, is the benefit for everyday New Zealanders having public ownership of things like hospitals and schools and roads and public transport, infrastructure, and a bank?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a70f5a2a29624857b6253c662e54c419\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Everyday New Zealanders expect us to be able to deliver an economy that\u2019s raising their incomes, and we are doing exactly that. They expect us to restore law and order and they also expect us to deliver better public services, particularly in health and education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022267adca746fe4ea39816c1133b85e862\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Are the Government\u2019s choices to under-fund critical infrastructure like our hospitals, our schools, and our ferries essentially just setting them up to fail to pave the way for an eventual sell-off of these crucial assets that we all own?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297c6a79a9e9e4031b3471a82cf9e0c29\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: The member is in a very dark and conspiratorial mood today. I just say, we have no plans to do any asset sales.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227e22bb95-9afb-449c-bcd2-de9fd4f2277c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef0c1eb6831e445599a1081578b29a8e\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Prime Minister seen any evidence of conspiracy theories being spread in New Zealand, and, if so, what is the Government doing to dispel them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022229ed853bcb447f9b821b3a724b48e39\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, our Government\u2019s very focused on what New Zealanders want us to be focused on, which is rebuilding the economy, restoring law and order, and delivering better health and education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c719901fa07d4775badf69b7234edb93\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could I ask the Prime Minister as to whether he thinks it\u2019d be in any way principled to sell a ferry that you haven\u2019t bought yet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022115670fe900444f0a07d4e804c39bd00\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we are working very hard to make sure that we get a critical piece of national infrastructure on the strait so that we can actually keep our cargo and people moving across this great country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200129b519e5046858311225e578da7fc\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister today committing to not selling off or partially privatising at all any of our State-owned assets, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022627f87474b5c44c79fdad7093a664d97\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, that is not on our agenda. What we are focused on is our quarterly action plans. We take delivery and execution very seriously, on this side of the House. It\u2019s a coalition Government that\u2019s getting on with the task at hand and that\u2019s what we\u2019re working our way through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dbaac12b-3efa-4d95-a08d-f0f637a48bab\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba73fbb742774f89a235c24fc5b64277\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister commit to not selling off any current public assets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bf53a8028994113b62a78c25ba334f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, that is not part of our plan. Our plan is to focus on our quarter four action plan. We\u2019re working our way through it exactly so that we deliver for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a50da2c1aa764293a164fb2aac04bee6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022 data-id=\u00220ded666a48b04841803ff28bf5af8b40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ded666a48b04841803ff28bf5af8b40\u0022\u003ESTUART SMITH (National\u2014Kaik\u014Dura)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on Government finances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6ca429f646d423aa3a0c9c97a243405\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6ca429f646d423aa3a0c9c97a243405\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier this month, Treasury released the financial statements of the Government for the year ending 30 June 2024. These showed that in 2023-24, core Crown expenses were $139 billion. That is a big number. It means core Crown expenses are 73 percent higher than they were just six years earlier. This increase in expenses is far greater than the increase in revenue over the same period. The financial statements show core Crown revenue of $133 billion in 2023-24, an increase of 54 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222164c1d84bb445a58d9da5f1b687585f\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What does this mean for the operating balances?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b813e147c55447390b86a7dab370088\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Core Crown expenses were $139 billion, and revenue was $133 billion. This means there was a core Crown operating deficit before gains and losses of $5.8 billion. The Government\u2019s headline operating balance indicator\u2014the OBEGAL\u2014is, however, a total Crown measure, which means it also includes revenue and expenses from Crown entities and State-owned enterprises. In 2023-24, Crown entities collectively made an operating deficit that was larger than the core Crown, at $6 billion before gains and losses. In terms of sectors, this was the biggest contribution to a total Crown operating balance before gains and losses (OBEGAL) of $12.9 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022470e1e5b88414a6a88adb93f2709e8c4\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What is behind the operating deficit from Crown entities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cd6177614d7412fa282f27956a37161\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: ACC is the biggest contributor by far. In 2023-24, its deficit before gains and losses was $4.1 billion. ACC is, essentially, self-funding, in that it funds its activities over the long term through levies. Given the size of its liabilities, however, its expenses can move around quite considerably\u2014for example, when interest rate assumptions change\u2014and this has a direct impact on the OBEGAL. Its deficit in 2023-24 was around a third of the total OBEGAL deficit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242382d8c9af24d9ea8acec52dbdacaec\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What other decisions affected the OBEGAL deficit in 2023-24?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e119400a9df74ecdb3c57b67f1d31851\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Budget 2023, which the previous Government delivered, had a significant impact on the 2023-24 OBEGAL deficit. Budget 2023 was a big-spending affair. The decisions announced in that Budget were expected to have an operating impact of $5.6 billion in 2023-24. Thankfully, the coalition Government made changes that pulled some of this back. Decisions made as part of the mini-Budget and Budget 2024 delivered operating savings of $1.1billion. The OBEGAL in 2023-24 was, therefore, $1.1 billion better than it otherwise would have been, thanks to this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022094b0ff4-e404-451b-b4a9-ad12bd4dee56\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b68821248cc640beab172e772972b1f4\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government\u2019s objective for the operating balance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dddd260bd6b64e4fb3a7535607f3638a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The OBEGAL has been in deficit for five years straight. It needs to be in surplus. We recognise this will take time. The Government set out its intention in the fiscal strategy report to return to an OBEGAL surplus in 2027-28 by having very tight operating allowances over the next few years. The Budget update forecasts this to occur, although we know it is not a given and that many factors affecting this balance are outside the Government\u2019s direct control. As Treasury noted in the Budget update, history suggests there is a 30 percent chance that tax revenue will be more than $11 billion higher or lower than what was forecast for 2027-28. The next economic and fiscal update will be the half-year update on 17 December.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6b0bec76676412fb08dfdd376e2a330\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022 data-id=\u00221f516b09f53940acb267c6fc4197236a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f516b09f53940acb267c6fc4197236a\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does she stand by her statement that \u201CThe Government will continue to take swift action to rebuild the economy in the interests of all New Zealanders\u201D; if so, why, after 315 days, has there been no decision announced on the Cook Strait ferries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022 data-id=\u002262af771b28144ae5a2742460311e66f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262af771b28144ae5a2742460311e66f7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do stand by that statement and I\u2019m proud of the steps this Government has taken to rebuild the economy\u2014in particular, our careful management of Government spending, which has helped take pressure off inflation. With regards to the second part of the question, Ministers are focused on getting the right solution for a safe, reliable, and resilient Cook Strait ferry service. An announcement will be made when Cabinet has made a decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f334ba3096a4190b8c2be57f042ad99\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Will she take responsibility for the loss of more than 50 jobs as a direct result of her decision to cancel the new ferries in 2023?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e411f9c91a6f4e1e9209e5ff751f9cd9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: As the member knows, State-owned enterprises make operational decisions independent of the Government. The Government\u2019s decision was to not provide additional funding for the Project iReX. Operational decisions thereafter are the responsibility of the State-owned enterprise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f48d0449cd66417cb5de93874761d702\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: When she convinced her ministerial colleagues to cut off the funding for the ferries, did she tell them it would add half a billion dollars to the deficit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022901ced1a64cd4d11b42610b36807c90f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure the basis of the number that the member has referred to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed185174efb242f2a6dcb593772dbbc2\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Will she take responsibility for the economy declining, with the number of people on a benefit a new record of 391,224 people, or 12 percent of the working-age population, for the September quarter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e33541b492c4593accf7ef139e663df\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as we have traversed in this House, we have inherited an economy that is very damaged and we are rebuilding it. After 12 interest rate increases under the last Government, we have seen a 75 basis-point reduction, we have seen inflation return\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f8ed0ff48dc41e7b2c1d886429ecf53\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286d5d7b699df425abdabbd12213d55b9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to the target band, and we have delivered tax relief to 3.5\u00A0million working New Zealanders. I stand by that record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022237e548b205b42b980e6a0218a0c968c\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Will she take responsibility for the economy declining under her watch when liquidations are up 19 percent year on year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229074e0bf372c45a2b09bd4131264637d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: It is, I think, a stretch for me to take responsibility for six years of a Labour Government that cranked up Government spending to irresponsible levels, driving up inflation, causing the Reserve Bank to have to crank up interest rates to levels which have had a very damaging effect on the economy. We\u2019re here now; we\u2019re cleaning up the mess. Our plan is working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261725fea-7d5e-4d1f-8fd3-e5779bb7a14d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a6f410e93e3460fae6281ed6d5b07bc\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: When will she take responsibility for the economy declining, when liquidations are up; unemployment is up; rents, rates, and insurance premiums are up; and there is a record net migration of Kiwis moving overseas?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f12da0af-dc73-4870-8f77-1d50a75eb44c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244031d1877f74e9497ec36b33bc31912\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I have taken responsibility for the actions that we said we would take to respond to a highly damaged and troubled economy. We said that what we would do is bring discipline back to Government spending, to take pressure off inflation. That\u2019s what we did\u2014inflation is now back in band. We said that in doing that, we would allow interest rates to fall, bringing relief for mortgage holders and business owners. That has been delivered\u201475 basis points down after 12 increases on their watch. We said we would deliver tax relief; we have. We\u2019re getting on with the job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292fb862a7bfa4c80bcbec0fa1d171d2d\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e3dcc4f63224685b42f3d4b95383cce\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before we go any further, that type of constant\u2014constant\u2014barrage across the House during the answers to questions really raises the question as to why we bother with question time. Now, it might be interesting for some people to, you know, bellow out their particular opinion on something, but they haven\u2019t been asked the question and so should keep their interjections to rare and reasonable, and not the sort of barrage that we\u2019ve just seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dd9de0250484faaac59198dcf95f40d\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Mr Speaker, I wanted to wait until the end of the exchange because I didn\u2019t want to interrupt the flow and it was quite enjoyable, actually, but the last three supplementary questions from the Opposition member there bore no resemblance to the primary question, which was about the length of time in relation to the Cook Strait ferries. So I would just encourage you to reflect on questions that don\u2019t flow from what\u2019s actually been asked and put down on notice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba2d62d8518e4c8b9b22140d35ae5d54\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, with all due respect, the question does talk about swift action to rebuild the New Zealand economy. That is a very broad opportunity to ask questions, and, in the end, the Minister answered them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c0f95e524e74cdd9cdcaccdfbe4d130\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022 data-id=\u00229d6ef3fdd2674063af973fa0d94a394c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d6ef3fdd2674063af973fa0d94a394c\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent announcements has he made on the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway Road of National Significance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022 data-id=\u0022a867b33be0094626906f1e1e03dccca9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a867b33be0094626906f1e1e03dccca9\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, the Prime Minister and I announced that work has kicked off on our Government\u2019s first new road of national significance, the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway. In March, we announced the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway as a new road of national significance. In July, we confirmed this project would be prioritised as one of our first seven new projects. Yesterday, early works kicked off on this critical project. Four-laning the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway will unleash national and regional economic growth, reduce travel times, and improve safety, as our Government continues to move at pace to deliver infrastructure that enables Kiwis and freight to get where they need to go quickly and safely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002230f9e8fe-eafb-4967-8d4d-306525ae2340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022084f2eb1d7e34fc89840a5e26215799d\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government prioritising the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway as a road of national significance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bfbeb5220c44242a9a0c8308697bf8f\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway carries 29,000 vehicles a day and links freight to one of New Zealand largest ports. The region\u2019s growing population and economy means that the central section of this road is reaching capacity at peak times, and, as a result, motorists are often crawling in congestion. Four-laning the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway as a road of national significance will enable motorists and freight to get where they need to go quickly and safely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b536e9cd8cb4d6c9388ef0980e6baaf\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: What do these works mean for the great people of Hawke\u2019s Bay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c66cd09c657a43e48c4ff746b3b8280b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, starting works on the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway yesterday brings great news for the people of Hawke\u2019s Bay. Starting early works now allows the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) to maximise the 2025-26 construction season and bring forward the construction of this critical four-lane road of national significance by 12 to 15 months. NZTA is prioritising the Taradale Road to Pakowhai Road section of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway as it is the most congested part of the road and will reduce congestion and travel times for motorists and freight travelling through the Bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a00bf4f5-c63a-49a0-b0e1-d3b37311377b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7304f3670b14a9fae631a6a72f0dc71\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government moving at pace to build a new generation of roads of national significance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c3830ba220f43e5a1dc8894c27695ce\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, New Zealand has an infrastructure deficit and our Government is taking action to fix it. Kiwis voted for a Government that would get on and build the infrastructure that our country needs, and that is exactly what we\u2019re doing: getting out there and getting things done. The roads of national significance are some of our country\u2019s best highways. Kicking off work on our first new road of national significance within a year of becoming Government showcases our commitment to continue this track record and deliver for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e8d2e78dd6647d3bdbf2460a1abd0b3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Small Business and Manufacturing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022a83d7a6855504842a524b4cbe0378f58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a83d7a6855504842a524b4cbe0378f58\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing: Does he stand by his statement, \u201Cobviously, people have different perceptions about what went on but I don\u2019t want to get into who said what\u201D; if so, what is his account of what happened between him and the worker on 3 October 2024 for which he has apologised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022089fe8f032cd4c52a77bcfd4d4f417b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022089fe8f032cd4c52a77bcfd4d4f417b5\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing):\u003C/span\u003E I accept the overall account of what happened between myself and the individual. I was certainly not drunk and I do not believe I swore. Regardless, I accept that I was wrong and that my actions caused hurt and offence, and that is why I\u2019ve unreservedly apologised to the individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0fcdd63f18e46a79f061cd556188337\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Is he saying that he did not tell the worker to eff off?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da1d33f4369f4727828eea9f0dd233a8\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: I do not believe I said that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd0050a2430f4da4aeb6a9063c3d797c\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Did he call the worker a loser?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a48dcdffa7e4dd582f9119686db9750\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I was wrong, but I intended the comments in a light-hearted manner; unfortunately, it has caused hurt and offence, and for that reason I\u2019ve apologised unreservedly to the individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daf450141b6e46238cf4a145615466d7\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Did he hold up the shape of an \u201CL\u201D on his forehead?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229baab62df084f5eb9bbe89ffe51baaa\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: Again, yes, I did; but again, it was in the spirit of comments made in a light-hearted manner, and that is why I have apologised unreservedly to the individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b9e93d3550e413aa3211afb4f0a5fac\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister be clear with the House what part of the complaint he disputes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a59e656fb1374cfd9e108db9ea0b0497\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve mentioned before that I do not believe that I swore at the individual, and also that I was not drunk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cab1f300f7324c298bac1cd2ac27bc02\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: So had he had any alcohol at the beer garden or the winery he visited that day?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fedf0f3143f348509f29a1de0b5801cf\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be29cec6204d41d3b03ea5645951e11b\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Is he saying that he visited a beer garden and a winery, but the person fudging the truth about his drinking is the worker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e6bbf7cc73e472bbe6532aa0d134c74\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: They are unrelated. You asked me whether I had alcohol and I said no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229e4ca7eb44244f5a96f72cfedee5ccfb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022 data-id=\u0022be7f1ca41300473daf1a869dd8c897c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be7f1ca41300473daf1a869dd8c897c2\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. To the Minister of Justice: What actions is the Government taking\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b20a67ca02d443d58e00347227355aa1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just hold on. No, just wait on. Wait\u2014just wait.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed9e9cbed95e43c699576e65ee1bb33a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed9e9cbed95e43c699576e65ee1bb33a\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What actions is the Government taking to ensure criminals face stronger consequences for crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc3b9ad9e32c4e1d92013e719aee667a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc3b9ad9e32c4e1d92013e719aee667a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is taking a range of actions to put more serious offenders in prison for longer and to prevent them from creating new victims. Fewer prison sentences have been imposed in recent years, and at the same time the prevalence of serious violent crime and sexual crimes has increased\u2014which is why we are progressing a range of initiatives, including reforming the sentencing regime to impose tougher consequences for those who commit serious crimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3d11c0087914106bc06d080c1f1234a\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: How will reforming the Sentencing Act ensure that criminals face stronger consequences for crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220499325ded704762956b6ea7214f8366\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: The Sentencing (Reform) Amendment Bill delivers on a range of coalition commitments and has three core objectives: to make sure that the punishment fits the crime, to strengthen the principle of personal responsibility for offending, and to better recognise victims by putting them at the heart of the justice system. It caps sentence discounts, prevents repeat discounts for youth and remorse, and introduces a bundle of new aggravating factors and a range of other initiatives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaaf493147ea4a158f2f875f80fd1226\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Sentencing (Reform) Amendment Bill go far enough to restore real consequences for crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4987c3d8537472d9626673634015e1d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: We believe so\u2014[Interruption] We believe so. However, the Government will be taking into consideration public submissions on the bill, which close next week. Following feedback, we will assess whether the reform does indeed go far enough. We know that in the year ending June 2024, more than 200,000 people have been victims of crime. No one should accept that as normal. If greater measures are required to restore confidence in our justice system, then the Government will consider such options. I encourage all to have their say at the select committee before next Tuesday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221573c6f8-999b-434d-8bde-a47a586ee0f0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e326032e02d438f8843306a4f78fe6e\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: What other actions is the Government taking to strengthen the sentencing regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002253f86481-33c1-48b2-893b-c11cc0bd673d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac652d60935b40d2a491cbc684175955\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: As per the coalition agreement between National and ACT, the Government is reinstating three strikes and has agreed to recommend modifications that will strengthen the regime. This work has been led by my excellent colleague Minister McKee, and is an important tool to reduce the number of victims of serious violence and sexual offending. It is clear that a very small number of prolific offenders create many, many victims. Three strikes will stop them\u2014for longer\u2014from adding more victims to their list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022598c44bd43ae47a4bc11a317dd519ac1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Immigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022 data-id=\u002211e7cd7645c34745989d504af168e9ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211e7cd7645c34745989d504af168e9ed\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Immigration: What changes, if any, is the Government making to visa settings to support exploited migrants in response to the fourfold increase in migrant exploitation complaints over the last financial year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u00220cc838520b2a481f9d31ca8462faf7d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220cc838520b2a481f9d31ca8462faf7d1\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Immigration):\u003C/span\u003E Migrant exploitation is utterly unacceptable, and the most important thing the Government can do to prevent exploitation is to limit the opportunity for it to occur. That\u2019s why in April, in response to the Bestwick review and the surge in complaints, this Government made immediate changes to reduce the opportunity for unscrupulous actors to exploit migrants. This included introducing minimum English requirements and the relevant experience requirements for low-skilled roles. I also announced further changes last week to ensure migrants are not placed at further risk of exploitation by allowing them to remain in New Zealand for an extended period of time without employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e74f95b6fab4c088a6a1013236073f1\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree with the comments of the National Party immigration spokesperson, Erica Stanford, who told Radio New Zealand, one month before the election, that a National Government would give a three-year open work visa to exploited migrants; and, if so, why has she halved the amount of time someone can hold a migrant exploitation protection visa to just six months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022974b74985b9748149f5cfa4b70acb137\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, now that I have a number of officials to advise me on the risks that are posed to migrants who are here on an open work visa, which is what we\u2019re seeing now\u2014numbers of people being exploited when they are not working for an accredited employer, those principal applicants\u2014the advice given to me was to make sure that we are limiting the amount of time given for a migrant to be in the country without a job. I would note that six months is a reasonable amount of time for someone to look for work and gain meaningful employment with an accredited employer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c37cad8d4bb485bb23b1f8ebe78d54f\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the unanimous recommendations that the migrant exploitation inquiry carried out last term, which received advice from immigration officials\u2014and National MP Erica Stanford participating in\u2014advising the Government at the time that the migrant exploitation protection visa should be extended beyond just six months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071c81a61a7549e0a86e8c58c03b39a6\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The advice that I\u2019ve been given since I\u2019ve become the Minister is that the migrant exploitation visa period of 12 months is too long to leave a migrant without work, especially without work for an accredited employer where we have oversight. They are in a difficult position. That leaves them open for more exploitation, and the moves that we\u2019ve made in the last week are to make sure that there is an acceptable and reasonable period of time for them to find employment, and if they do not have the skills and experience to find employment after six months, then it\u2019s time to leave New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f11d4ffb97db4bb39af19a23e87746ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Could the Minister confirm as to whether it\u2019s a fact that the greatest percentage of migrant exploitation is being exploited by their own and that is the recent history of this country, sadly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f72827bbcb50484b9661331014891e33\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister can attempt to answer, but it\u2019s not strictly her responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9ff3ab7cd6e44469c2b9137b66e2285\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, the advice that I\u2019ve had is that migrant exploitation is undertaken by many people or many businesses in New Zealand. The most important thing that we can do is to make sure that we\u2019re limiting the time to a reasonable amount of time that someone can spend in the country on an open work visa, thereby limiting the amount of time that whoever is doing the exploiting is able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277e6524153b74127a302b4b828b00ecb\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the Minister blame the massive increase in exploitation claims on visa settings incentivising offshore agents to offer fake jobs, when her own Cabinet paper acknowledges that would only be 150 people compared to the 3,925 migrant exploitation claims?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226b6a735995e48ecbb9ee6fa205b621e\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: If I understand the question correctly, there are a number of reasons why migrants get exploited. Some of them are because they are exploited by an offshore agent who is selling them a fake job. Some of them are exploited here by people in New Zealand who run businesses. The point of this visa change is to make sure that both of those problems are solved by making sure that the people who are here are working for an accredited employer\u2014which means we have oversight\u2014and that they\u2019re not here for an extended period of time being able to be exploited. It also means that there isn\u2019t a long period of time to be on an open work visa, which gives overseas agents more of a tool to sell exploitation because of an extended period of an open work visa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002219ed20db-5d6c-4464-9327-6cdd072bb4fe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5724490794e4a878f310fc6c20bd636\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Did she talk to any exploited migrants, unions, workers\u2019 rights advocates to substantiate those comments, or is she making those statements based off vibes and without information from the ground?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a39fe0913bf47638bef43645b24af10\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: My officials undertake communications with a range of different peak bodies and migrants. I also have a peak body that I speak to who give me information about the levels and rates that people are being exploited, and I take that advice on board when I\u2019m making changes, and I did in this case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225e5b641578a944339af9a688419c7338\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022 data-id=\u00227b99eee03223474d91a497a01903d2f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b99eee03223474d91a497a01903d2f4\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5e08ace16984bc49861fd576183c501\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5e08ace16984bc49861fd576183c501\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0a8b81b998c454e89bd330328a66f2d\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What is he doing to address the staff physical bullying, staff smuggling drugs, sexual advance of youth offenders at Korowai Manaaki, as reported by Mana Mokopuna to the Government July 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ce4aa80c5f44fe9bd005259d5591baf\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Minister\u2019s taking very seriously the need to improve safeguarding and protection of young people at Oranga Tamariki. As you\u2019d be aware, the Mike Bush review identified nine areas of focus, and there\u2019s 40 actions. She\u2019s been working her way through that. What happened over the last 24 hours was incredibly unfortunate, but what I\u2019d say is, you know, we\u2019ve had one rooftop incident this year; we\u2019ve had 15 in 2023. So it\u2019s not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but the Minister\u2019s working hard through the action plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022449930fb5fb6436fbef4aaed661c1f80\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What is he doing to stop the staff-initiated fighting amongst the offenders, as reported to the Government by Mana Mokopuna July 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260ea04fc1c0846f48943ce986b9b7087\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I just said, the Mike Bush independent review came forward with a series of 40 actions. I think about seven have already been completed, a number already pending and in progress, and the Minister\u2019s working her way through that with her team.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f09f865c6e142ed9829987ab11be11d\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What is he doing to ensure youth advocates have access to the youth offenders, as reported to the Government by Mana Mokopuna in July 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6dd95d97944402487955439d56022b0\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said, there are nine focus areas, and there\u2019s 40 actions. The Minister is taking each of those 40 actions coming out of that independent review very seriously. If the member has specific questions, I\u2019d encourage her to address those questions to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8e9c47518834ca8a31a7c3180e6f31b\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: How does he justify the 133 percent increase in benefit sanctions over the last year when unemployment is the highest it has been in three years as a direct result of this Government cutting 7,000 public sector jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022453620b7264e476bbdcb67da1b827621\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m actually proud that we\u2019re actually enforcing rights and responsibilities in this country. What we\u2019re making sure is that there will be sanctions on benefits for people who do not uphold their basic obligations to this country and to each other. The system works in a way where if you are needing help\u2014and we all want to support people with a welfare net and safety net, but, actually, that means that you need to meet your obligations: have a r\u00E9sum\u00E9, meet with your case manager, show up for interviews. Not complicated\u2014reasonable expectation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226911481f9dbc4803a4e38b2c3eb999a0\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What happens to the tamariki of the 1,029 beneficiaries with dependent children who have had their benefits cut in the last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdcd290de95a4cb994fdcfd685c9d670\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as you\u2019ll be well aware, we have a traffic light system that gives good communication. Most of our beneficiaries are working incredibly hard meeting their obligations and are in green and fully compliant, others are amber, and others are red. But we make no bones about it. It\u2019s a very simple task. If you\u2019re going to receive a benefit, which is funding from your fellow New Zealanders through the tax system, you need to be able to make sure you meet some very basic obligations: have a r\u00E9sum\u00E9, show up for an interview, and meet your case manager. It\u2019s not difficult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd4e96d80c064a39bcb124df33eb84a9\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Is this Government upholding its Treaty obligations by removing Treaty provisions from 28 separate pieces of legislation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022589bf95b95a044d4b7e1bf60dc2437ee\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is determined to do well for M\u0101ori. As we have talked about in this House before, it is utterly unacceptable that only 12 percent of M\u0101ori are ready to go to high school with their maths knowledge. We are determined to improve outcomes for all New Zealanders, M\u0101ori or non-M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227a76db18-baa4-41c1-b366-89e2c753a1e7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f7947fcc3fd44348673c11921c6246b\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Will he front up to the h\u012Bkoi for Te Tiriti when it arrives at Parliament from Te Rerenga Wairua on 19 November?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea31fdd3-90e9-47d7-92a4-20b6a3109eef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f3a52e0ead344c2a832520b5ed41f6b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure what my schedule will be at that time; I have a funny feeling I might be overseas, but the point would be, very clearly, people are free to protest as long as it\u2019s done legally and peacefully.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e2496507f84346c4a106d4fb77c466ab\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022 data-id=\u0022aaa7df0de69b41d9afa2a5ddcde91ff0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aaa7df0de69b41d9afa2a5ddcde91ff0\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by her statement that \u201CWe know it will take time to increase attendance rates but this government expects kids to be in school\u201D; if so, how does she reconcile this with the closing of school bus routes across the country? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022 data-id=\u0022037b373be0114b51841bf6a546abd8f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022037b373be0114b51841bf6a546abd8f6\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E To the first part, yes; to the second, bus route reviews are required to ensure eligible students can access school transport assistance, and the ministry comply with their statutory obligation under the Public Finance Act to ensure funding is spent appropriately. I\u2019m advised that in September 2022, the ministry proposed a review of 950 bus routes to the then Minister to address a \u201Csignificant number\u201D of routes that were operating outside of policy settings and the appropriation. The Minister declined and paused proactive reviews for 18 months, coinciding with the election year. There is now a huge backlog of reviews to be undertaken, and the failure to do so will result in unauthorised expenditure. Reviews will ensure that eligible students can get to school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbde019e8b9c4938bae8594e436120de\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: In what way, if any, will closing school bus routes increase attendance rates? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225046ddcbddee4ce9a293a9448defdc00\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Unlike the last Government, it is important that we are acting within the appropriation that we have legally, according to the Public Finance Act, which means that we have to do reviews of school bus routes. That is up to the ministry; it is something that they have to do. Luckily for the public of New Zealand, we also have a Government who aren\u2019t prepared to just kick the can down the road. I have instructed my officials earlier in the year to investigate opportunities to improve the efficiency and accessibility and flexibility of school transport delivery, and they\u2019ve been working on this since February. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdc8b87c93ef4179ba54cf95e25ce8c7\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: How does she reconcile her expectation that kids should be in school with her decision to let bus routes close? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022759f63ff9ac54f1a80fc99ecf7a25293\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t made any decisions to close bus routes. As the previous Minister well knows, that is an operational matter for the ministry to make sure they\u2019re operating within their appropriation. I have been advised by the ministry that they are quite sure that they are acting, well, not within their appropriation, which means that they are in breach of the Public Finance Act. That means that it is their legal obligation to make sure that they are doing these reviews. However, unlike the previous Government, we are proactively looking at what opportunities exist for us to have a more efficient, flexible, and accessible transport option for students. We are working on that at pace, and I will have more to say in the coming months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222231536087434174aeffdf31f266df2c\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to the Hawke\u2019s Bay mother who, due to the cancellation of her local bus route near Kaiwaka, says that she has no other option but to allow her son to commit truancy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5f806dd3a50495e99d0e8954535e9c2\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I would say to that mother that it\u2019s unfortunate that the previous Government didn\u2019t look at the policy settings and acted outside the appropriation. It would have been far better if the previous Government, in the last six years, had looked at the policy settings and worked out whether or not we could have a more flexible and appropriate policy. Unfortunately, they didn\u2019t do that. We have a tsunami now of bus routes that legally need to be looked at, which is what the ministry is doing. But we are working at pace on new policy, unlike the last lot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d49aeac-8adf-497b-9400-ab7bb077bb8d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258f8a74d8b9144a0951358e3c9679ff8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: With respect to the last question, was that information from the Hawke\u2019s Bay mother referring to Kaiwaka referred on to the Minister so she could answer it direct\u2014and it would sort out the geography for a start? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226178ccf0f2a4407ba41f177707b8c179\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, at least part of that question can be answered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270edba88245c4e7390d0eca7e0696834\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure if it was forwarded on to me, but I can have a look and get back to the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd9fdbf27c1a4a52bf5b4b1212e44c08\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Federated Farmers, who said, \u201CCutting these routes would hollow out our rural communities, which would be devastating.\u201D, and, if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261f0e19769e645a88475f9ff8c74ccd7\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m excited to say that Federated Farmers have met with the Ministry of Education transport division. The two of them have had a very informative discussion and have actually agreed on a way forward, and we\u2019re looking forward to working with them on options for the future to make sure that those local people, with their students, do have access to flexible and efficient bus routes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002255d0b7a4-a2c9-4c38-9b77-475311a48a89\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dfc0b0c4e6c4479b604851a2b826c34\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister confirm that between September 2017 and October 2023, there were bus routes that were stopped as they didn\u2019t meet the eligibility criteria? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2e8b8e019e84c968532e356194c8d2b\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I can confirm that that happened under the previous Government. The unfortunate part was that they didn\u2019t then look at the policy overall\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229eef65cd-ce82-441c-af1b-954ea0782a04\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5938e97e7ef47e4aa86b3e25d5292aa\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: Was it 250 routes? Because that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022275c91f8-c6b8-42fd-b3ab-d8fc000dd41f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022860e8181bf9440829ee13bdb680e7618\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, the member says, \u201CWas it 250?\u201D The reason it\u2019s 250 is because the previous Government decided over an election period to just pause for 18 months, leaving us with a tsunami of routes that legally need to be reviewed, otherwise we\u2019re acting outside of our appropriation. The previous Government might like to work outside appropriations, but, actually, we like to follow the law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d719d773a9874b8ab25b87ed60670f97\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that the excitement in the Government benches is because they\u2019ve all just learnt something new, but it doesn\u2019t help the Minister in answering a question when there is more noise coming from behind the Minister than the Minister\u2019s voice itself. I\u2019ll just send a bit of a warning that this has got to stop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fbe94e3913094b7486412754c44e3a18\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u00228572dc491dcf4620a65a6a7aed6ce7c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228572dc491dcf4620a65a6a7aed6ce7c5\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Agriculture: What actions is the Government taking to support the primary sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9018c8c180d4bdb80b172013f701439\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9018c8c180d4bdb80b172013f701439\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG (Associate Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture: This week, the Government is progressing the Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill through the House. This underscores our commitment to slash the tangle of red tape throttling some of New Zealand\u2019s key sectors, including farming, mining, and the primary industries. When we came into Government, we recognised the urgency of making\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4ac71d24103430999ffb571f8c324f8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just stop\u2014stop. We\u2019re going to hear the rest of it in silence. It\u2019s getting out of control. Finish your answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292a9aab465bb42e5bc5446a69635933a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: We recognised the urgency of making these changes and didn\u2019t waste any time getting them into the House. Amongst other things, the bill will exclude the hierarchy of obligations in the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management from resource consenting, repeal contentious low slope map and associated requirements from stock exclusion regulations, as well as speeding up and simplifying the process for preparing and amending national direction. These changes will reduce the regulatory burden that\u2019s been holding back our rural sector and imposing unnecessary cost on farms and on our world-leading farmers. There is a lot more work to do, of course, but these changes are an important first step in our commitment to get Wellington out of farming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d7ca32631264a0eb7fc69a911653879\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good. OK. We\u2019ll have a bit of a focus on brevity and conciseness in answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a574801861f346d3bb3a96996d56b5bb\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Does the bill address uncertainty around discharge consenting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c3575cc10e24d37a66e64c7f0670db6\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, yes. Clarifications to discharge consenting provisions in this bill will provide certainty for agricultural and horticultural producers, making sure councils continue to manage discharge consents in a practical way. Recent High Court decisions on sections 70 and 107 threatened to make the law unworkable by reducing councils\u2019 abilities to manage discharge from a range of activities. Without clarifying the law, these decisions may restrict councils\u2019 abilities to issue or reissue consent for discharge from activities by industry, farming, meat processing, as well as waste-water discharges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc7d0d47dd25481ba69d01dcffcf9c9b\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What steps have been taken to give certainty to farmers on the national roll-out of freshwater farm plans?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb8121e86f29441da1dd6ec9bdc6f38d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, the Government is restoring confidence to the rural sector by pausing the roll-out of freshwater farm plans while changes are made to ensure the system is affordable and more practical for farmers and growers. We intend to table an Amendment Paper to the bill to pause the roll-out of freshwater farm plans in the regions where they have taken effect. Thousands of farmers around the country have been facing a ticking clock to get plans drawn up and certified, and this will provide certainty for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a65df31d474249628d8e935cf678cdcf\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The Minister\u2019s just said that there are some intended tabled amendments coming today that we haven\u2019t yet seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276bfd3bc256a4e578cf71d91c681917a\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve been tabled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224477cde28eb34ae8b1e673b9fa361cb4\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ve not yet seen them, sir\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6d151e866fd415595654c39122a8e74\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Please don\u2019t interrupt a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7bb3318c2fd4498afe3a3fd3c36c4bf\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I want to inquire whether there has been any ruling inquired as to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e6733f4edb4c448bbcc3ec97e650d5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just start your point of order again. That interruption was not acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291091625c9d04c26bcc12a949da7c894\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Sir, in respect of these amendments that there were press releases about today, I accept the word of the Leader of the House that he says they\u2019re now tabled, but we haven\u2019t had the chance to see them yet. My question is whether there has been any inquiry of the Clerk\u2019s Office as to whether they fall within the scope of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257e41e9d-285b-4fb3-847d-a63820ae7137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204e2caa0a8d7425a8f6e169d1a2f2833\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, the Amendment Paper was tabled this morning and the Opposition must have a copy of it, because the Hon Rachel Brooking has tweeted a photo of the Amendment Paper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5fb0af65e474e868712377d3fffb82d\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: My question is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244de98d56fca49c1a62b2f8d0a7e5478\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute\u2014everyone\u2019s got to be quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223adca4743cbb4bd5904cd8a77c8242db\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014whether there has been\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a21f14534dbf4ccda77919dda1b91d90\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, no, would you wait a minute. OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c30d688e83a4708ad020f02c0d33bd7\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. My question was\u2014I think there are some serious scope issues here\u2014whether there has been yet a ruling as to scope from the Clerk. If there hasn\u2019t been, that\u2019s a matter for debate. I\u2019m just interested as to whether there has been a scope inquiry of these serious amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d98cb4cf6cc14547a57ebef78451f078\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if they\u2019re tabled, I\u2019d assume that they have been ruled as within scope of the bill. Is there another question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293f097d0810a45eab9eb91e45e0d6314\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What steps have been taken\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb02a8ac8bd94d6e9965adff785732f5\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I have\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caa164000e2a4455af3929b4cf11bd0c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, just let me\u2014for goodness\u2019 sake! The Hon David Parker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6303bebd262433baddfd64808e23419\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I have tabled many amendments, sir, without having advice from the Clerk as to whether they are within scope. So I\u2019m not sure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022325bb1cc2fda4968bfd9b4ab4d2b2c8f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right. I\u2019m not \u201CFather Confessor\u201D here. Sorry about your past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c35383c2cf67409bb376f826d6d736fb\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: No, sir. With respect, the fact that something has been tabled doesn\u2019t mean to say that it has been checked as to scope.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcdf8b877faf416f9318233a708ee375\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. But I said that that was my assumption, and I\u2019ll certainly check it. I can\u2019t do that from this position right now. Does the member have another question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d167185ddaa74120beb3b1cf2205feae\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, thank you, Mr Speaker. What steps have been taken to give certainty to farmers and ratepayers on freshwater plans?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295b50864dc5249e98d674070159debcf\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, this afternoon the Government has announced that we will also be tabling an amendment to the bill, which will restrict councils\u2019 ability to notify freshwater plans before the gazetting of the replacement National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management. The last Government\u2019s national policy statement is extremely complex and expensive for farmers and councils to implement and, despite that, will not deliver improved freshwater outcomes. That\u2019s why this Government is committed to reviewing and replacing it next year. We\u2019re making this change to the law because ratepayers and farmers need certainty, and they don\u2019t deserve to have their money wasted. Councils will still have an avenue to progress their freshwater plans in some circumstances, but we want to draw a line under the last Government\u2019s failed attempt once and for all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022752788c03ccb4dc6a7275a6d8999c5aa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good, excellent\u2014question No. 12.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002257e2db267cfe47f6a163a61ff59ae66b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u002212838169b4934a48bc1848bf7c362747\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212838169b4934a48bc1848bf7c362747\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Justice: What announcement has she made about strengthening the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022 data-id=\u002285db109d997943e88f7791c7384e45e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285db109d997943e88f7791c7384e45e8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I have recently announced proposals to strengthen the three-strikes law that this Government is reinstating. I\u2019ve heard from many New Zealanders who want the Government to do more to hold the worst violent and sexual offenders accountable. I\u2019m proposing that criminals who previously received strikes under the old three-strikes law will have those strikes recognised under the new three-strikes law if they meet the same eligibility criteria. I am also proposing adjustments to the qualifying sentence threshold to ensure serious offenders are captured earlier in their offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f06a109168342be8a13a242dab217e4\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: How would these proposals ensure that repeat violent and sexual offenders are held accountable for their past actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289f99bc889ff4df593d2b992faccac2a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: My proposal to carry forward eligible strikes, accumulated under the previous three-strikes law, into the new regime makes it clear that offenders will face consequences for their past actions and they will not be able to continue harming communities under this Government. This proposal will mean that if criminals who offended under the last three-strikes law continue to offend, they will gradually receive longer prison sentences and be locked away from law-abiding New Zealanders for longer too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022078e3652e5304f9b9108cc38439dc910\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Why has she proposed changes to the qualifying sentence threshold for offenders receiving their first strike?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f0a9ac211ba45778943a5882ea8a1c3\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I am proposing to lower the qualifying sentence threshold to 12 months for first-strike offences. This will mean that more offenders will receive a first-strike warning earlier. It will send a clear message to those criminals that further offending will result in longer prison sentences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221fafe42c7424d019a87a5983b1b3611\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she decide to subvert parliamentary process and announce these changes before the Justice Committee has reported back and on the basis of private emails to her office, rather than taking into account the overwhelming majority of public submissions to the select committee which opposed the failed three-strikes regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b7d8ba377a84ac2ac19845b4c131a8b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t want to pre-empt the select committee\u2019s report, but publicly available submissions show an overwhelming majority of support for what the Government is trying to achieve here. I\u2019ve heard loud and clear the call to go even further to restore law and order, and that\u2019s what these proposals to strengthen the three-strikes regime will do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddabfed0e26845c2be5ba87bbd2617ee\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: Has she proposed any modifications to the \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D provisions contained within the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002258baa209-edaf-42a5-92d6-b2613c144bfb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d2891f2614241879c59e53d2df6906b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: No, the \u201Cmanifestly unjust\u201D provision remains intact, ensuring that there is judicial discretion that can be applied when needed. This provision allows for flexibility in cases where applying a strike might produce manifestly unjust outcomes. It will ensure that only the most serious violent and sexual offending will be captured by the three-strikes regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f5550509bd64ef3a860f7e1d6e0794a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa918fdef95e47b8b4464e03067655f0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the question allocation has been used up. That brings oral questions to a close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003EI declare the House in committee for consideration of the Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and the Contracts of Insurance Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e6b4dc55-3561-49a8-a871-ae005354ef90\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221076afc3727b4711a23c537f6438dd9b\u0022\u003EHOUSE IN COMMITTEE\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022196facdb0e9c4135a449dd0e9f89a594\u0022\u003EHOUSE IN COMMITTEE\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00220eabaf6df5d34f5bb9645171c17b06d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220eabaf6df5d34f5bb9645171c17b06d0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and the Contracts of Insurance Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e9b00d63eb642b8ab74b9e42a64872e\u0022\u003EResource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e01af3340f1e423e8452e3f43998a6ec\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002226fd7dbc4f1a4f449c8c393e9cbd1cff\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to Resource Management Act 1991\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022931ae5b184294b579d4cde2f92aa744e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022931ae5b184294b579d4cde2f92aa744e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We come first to the Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. We come now to Part 1. This is the debate on clauses 4 to 7, \u201CAmendments to Resource Management Act 1991\u201D\u2014sorry, 4 to 27\u2014and Schedule 1. The question is that Part 1 stand part. Could the members move away from the Table?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00224b382291a66a4b039e2a5b23a3332d88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b382291a66a4b039e2a5b23a3332d88\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you for clarifying just now that Part 1 is from clause 4 to clause 27. Now, why this is important\u2014and this includes Schedule 1 as well in Part 1; Part 2 is Schedule 2 and some smaller clauses\u2014is that we\u2019ve had a number of Amendment Papers lodged this morning from the Minister the Hon Chris Bishop, and they are very significant changes and they will be in this Part 1 debate along with Schedule 1. I think it\u2019s most important to start with this\u2014with my contribution now\u2014but I do want to then work through all of the clauses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThis bill does a number of things. Most of what it does is in relation to a whole number of resource management secondary legislation, so national policy statements and also regulations. That is why the bill works in its way. We just heard a different Minister in question time outline some of the different things that it does, and one of those things is to do with the national policy for freshwater management. We see that straight up at clause 4, \u201CInterpretation\u201D, but I don\u2019t want to talk on that yet, because what I want to start my contribution about is the outrageous process that we have seen on this bill both this morning and, I guess, two weeks ago when the Primary Production Committee report came out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThis is quite a technical bill and, as I said, it changes secondary legislation and also changes how future secondary legislation is made. Those are the main amendments to the actual Act itself\u2014the Resource Management Act\u2014and they were what was consulted on in a shortened time frame and what most submitters submitted on. However, some submitters opened up the process and wanted to talk about discharge consents and an inability sometimes to get them because of some High Court action or some court action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhat Ministers must have done is speak to the Government members in the Primary Production Committee, which then recommended some changes to section 107 of the Resource Management Act. It\u2019s very important to note\u2014and I\u2019ll talk about them more substantively later\u2014that those changes to section 107 regarding discharge consents were not in the bill as it was introduced, and most people did not make submissions on them. Importantly, some organisations were allowed to make submissions on them and other organisations such as Forest \u0026amp; Bird\u2014who have written to the Speaker to complain about this issue\u2014were not allowed to submit on this issue that wasn\u2019t in the bill when it was introduced, presumably because the chair thought it was out of scope. It is out of scope, yet somehow it\u2019s in this bill as reported back today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen\u2014that is not all\u2014this morning we have two more amendments from the Government; from the Minister, Chris Bishop. One of them seems to be specifically directed at the Otago Regional Council that is planning to meet tomorrow to notify its freshwater plan. This amendment is to say, \u201CNo, no, Otago Regional Council\u201D\u2014democratically elected council that has been working on this for a long, long time\u2014\u201Cyou cannot notify that plan tomorrow.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f24af492d6842acb1b7cb427378cfb5\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Shameless!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4f12de9697345b2a0c5e1fbdf76ceb6\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: This is shameful and I know many members will have more to say on that. I\u2019m just introducing, at the moment, these terrible changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThen we heard as well, in the question just before, about another amendment that is to do with farm plans and pausing those farm plans. We have not had time to go through what that means; we haven\u2019t had submissions on the importance of the changes to section 107. It is a disgrace and I will leave it there for this contribution before going through the issues more systematically, but I invite the Minister to try and explain why this urgency is needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022df45d6167f0541beb8d60f84045cd834\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df45d6167f0541beb8d60f84045cd834\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E If I may, I would just like to pick up and extrapolate on the introductory comments from my colleague the Hon Rachel Brooking, to provide those who are watching this with some context. There is indeed scheduled to be a large public meeting in Otago, which would have been at the Otago Regional Council offices normally but has moved to a public venue that is much bigger\u2014the Hutton Theatre\u2014so that people can watch the vote take place on this amendment that my colleague referred to, just tabled today with no input on the Primary Production Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EThere is a huge deal of public interest in the Otago region, and what we are contending is not only anti-democratic because submitters have not had an opportunity to look at the amendment and to submit on it, but the actions of the Government to intervene in a matter of local democracy with a locally elected council is a gross overreach. It is no surprise to me to see that in another council, the Wellington council, we have similarly seen perceptions or a kind of manufactured story of chaos that doesn\u2019t meet any kind of threshold where there is an overreach by the executive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EFor context, the councillors who were democratically elected have been looking at this issue not only this term but for many, many years, and have done extensive consultation on the freshwater plan to the tune of 18 million ratepayer dollars. There is a seven-to-five split in the council in favour of notifying, based on the public submissions and the democratic process that has been followed. I have said to the Minister publicly in the newspaper many times: I think that she needs to stay in her lane because the ramifications of overreaching every time there is a disagreement with a democratically elected local council are huge for our institutions of democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ENow, some more context is that earlier this month I submitted a number of Official Information Act requests and a number of the equivalent requests, Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act requests (LGOIMAs), to the Otago Regional Council. When it transpired that the councillors received these, some of those who may have been the subject of having to declare that they had direct communications into Government Ministers unilaterally then informed the Otago Daily Times and said: yes, they had actually written to the Minister to ask her to intervene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EMy perception is that would not have been transparent had it not been for the actions that I took. My instinct all along has been that this Government would continue to apply pressure, continue to use tactics via the minority on the Otago Regional Council, and, if it didn\u2019t get its way, would overreach\u2014which is what we are seeing today. The tactics I refer to are special meetings being called and urgent resolutions to vote on the notification\u2014by the minority group who don\u2019t want to notify\u2014knowing that they would lose the vote but trying to create some kind of drama that Government Ministers could then allude to as chaotic or as shambolic. In fact, there were Ministers of the Government quoted on the radio referring to the council as a rogue council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI\u2019m providing you this context, Mr Chair, because we have not had a chance to hear this in the Primary Production Committee. This amendment has just been dropped after the select committee process, and I think it\u2019s really important for people who are watching the debate to understand the context and to understand that this specific amendment may have ramifications for other councils but is specifically engineered to take that vote away from the council tomorrow and to legislate over the council so that the Government can get its way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003ENow, that is not transparent. It shows there has been an agenda. I believe that Ministers have been in cahoots with the minority group of councillors. I\u2019m really looking forward to seeing, in the fullness of time, the results of my Official Information Act and LGOIMA requests based on evidence and information that I have from many sources around the region which would suggest that there is a very cozy and inappropriate relationship. I\u2019m going to end my contribution there and seek a call for the Hon Rachel Brooking to continue, but I just thought that was really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a45241110a44a0cbd614b6382db9618\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: If the member wants to continue a call, then call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4b960d5967c4ed79a5fbab1bb2216dc\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c373a743354460ac8548caaf82915a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ingrid Leary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef7e6550cf8347179334ed14bb770d1c\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to yield to the Hon David Parker, if I may.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00221a408798424048688243d98a7f0fe4be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a408798424048688243d98a7f0fe4be\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to ask the Minister whether she continues to assert that the hierarchy\u2014well, I\u2019ll go back a step. Under the iteration of the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management (NPSFM) that was promulgated by the National - M\u0101ori Party coalition, the term \u201CTe Mana o te Wai\u201D was introduced into the freshwater management regime; it wasn\u2019t an investment of the last Labour Government. The subsequent iteration of that made it clear that there\u2019s a hierarchy of obligations towards water bodies. First is the environmental health of the river, the second is human needs like extraction of water for human purposes, and the third was commercial uses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAt the Primary Production Committee, the assertion was made by Government members on the select committee that this was an absolute hierarchy and that you couldn\u2019t lapse down into the second or third priorities until the first priority was met. In other words, if the requirements as to long-term water quality, for example, were not met for a water body, there was a suggestion that there was an absolute prohibition on, for example, a discharge right for a council. This was an example that had been used, in that if the water body was already degraded it would be impossible to get a renewal of a water right to have a municipal discharge which degraded the quality of the river.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, at the Primary Production Committee, Opposition members asked officials as to whether that was a misunderstanding of the NPSFM, because the understanding of Opposition members, including myself, was that the hierarchy provided for in the NPSFM is not absolute. In some ways it would make it a nonsense to have all of the long-term provisions in there saying that where things are degraded, they ought to be cleaned up over an undefined period\u2014a generation or so\u2014and it was up for regional councils to determine how quickly they got towards the attributes that are set out in the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe reason why I\u2019m asking this question is this is what, as I understand it, lies behind the logic as to why this bill amends the resource management regime by saying that the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management hierarchy is not to be used in respect of a decision as to whether someone can get a resource consent to discharge to water or to abstract water. Now, if that is based on the understanding that was displayed by the Government members\u2014which, in my view, and I think officials confirmed this to the Primary Production Committee that there isn\u2019t an absolute standard\u2014it seems to me that this provision is misconceived, because there was no absolute hierarchy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI would like the Minister to confirm her understanding that the NPSFM hierarchy that I have described\u2014those three levels of what we\u2019re trying to achieve for water bodies\u2014did not set absolutes that removed council discretion on consents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022af7ab8508d274bdeb6cd618bcf8e1fc6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af7ab8508d274bdeb6cd618bcf8e1fc6\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the Hon David Parker for his question. My understanding is that there have been varied approaches by different councils to this matter, and that in some instances the hierarchy had been considered as an absolute. The changes are being brought in to clarify that the hierarchy does not need to be considered either by the applicant or the consenting authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022f29bcf92add747fb837fd59e67f346f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f29bcf92add747fb837fd59e67f346f2\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. If I understand the process so far that you\u2019ve outlined and described, I\u2019m going to be seeking clarifying comments from the Minister about these last-minute amendments that the Government has just put on the Table, but then that we will be stepping through the clauses of the bill in separation to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI really want to start by asking the Minister: why has the Government introduced these two last-minute Amendment Papers? They have a material impact not only on the democratic processes in local government, at the council level but also what is currently rolling out around the country when it comes to freshwater farm plans in their various ways that councils are actually rolling those out. Why I want to ask that fundamental question is that I\u2019ve heard from the Minister previously that the intention of Government with these reforms is not necessarily freshwater improvement. The Minister made comments at the last scrutiny hearing at the Environment Committee that the goal with these freshwater reforms is actually to have, as she described it, workable standards that are not overly complicated, and that was with no mention of actual freshwater improvement. I\u2019m really interested to hear from the Minister about how these amendments actually sit in with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThen, more directly, were these amendments introduced at this last minute to directly override the expected decision of Otago Regional Council, who are set to decide to notify their land and water regional plan tomorrow? Now, this is absolutely critical to understanding this in terms of their confidence in this Government that it is not just stepping in to override the democratically elected councillors, to override the wishes of community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI would really like to hear the Minister\u2019s statements on this, and I\u2019d also like to hear how these Amendment Papers will actually impact councils\u2014for example, where they already have a regional policy statement in place that upholds the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management (NPSFM) and Te Mana o Te Wai. Now, there are these in existence. What does it mean when the Government is saying that these types of amendments and this bill will provide certainty to landowners, to consent applicants, to consent holders, when actually there are already aspects of the NPSFM, of Te Mana o Te Wai, that are throughout existing plans and policies; and how does that actually provide certainty? I am really keen to hear from the Minister about those. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u002283ce5640edbe49e7883c7899bd38ead0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283ce5640edbe49e7883c7899bd38ead0\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I thank the member for her questions. With regard to the freshwater farm plans, as the member probably knows, there is an amount of work that is going on within Government in terms of improving the system to finalise the freshwater farm plans, including ensuring that it is risk based and therefore able to react to both the risks in specific catchments and to the type of farming that is being undertaken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThe reason for pausing this is to ensure that that work can be undertaken and that those who might otherwise be required to come up with their farm plans are not doing it against the changes\u2014or are doing it with the current legislation rather than what\u2019s going to be changed. It\u2019s to avoid duplication and to enable farmers to be working with the correct information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EWith regard to the restriction on the notification of regional policy statements and plans, this is to ensure that that risk of duplication and additional costs to ratepayers does not occur while the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management is being developed. We are very mindful of the impact both in time and in cost to ratepayers and to the primary sector, and that is the reason for these amendments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022acf858783d834a84908437799667ae50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acf858783d834a84908437799667ae50\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Sticking with Amendment Paper 127, which is the one about farm plans, can the Minister explain what she means by \u201Crisk based\u201D and what her understanding is of the regulations? I know that\u2019s not a word that this Government likes, but what are the environmental protections to stop pollution that will be in place whilst this pause on the farm plan happens? Those are important questions because, obviously, nobody has had a lot of time to go through this Amendment Paper that has not been in front of the Primary Production Committee. So that\u2019s two questions on the farm plans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe also heard the Minister answer, too, the Hon David Parker\u2019s question around Te Mana o te Wai not requiring everything to always be declined because something might go wrong with the health of the water, when it\u2019s applied to consents, and the Minister responded, \u201CWell, there are cases on this.\u201D I would like to know what cases the Minister is referring to, and what the outcomes of those cases were. My understanding is that the cases that some submitters referred to are ones where a consent would have been declined regardless of Te Mana o te Wai. That was because of the adverse effects they were having on the environment, regardless of the hierarchy in that test of Te Mana o te Wai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m going to come back to Amendment Paper 128, because I want to try and work through this bill in a methodical way. Other people might do so differently, but that is up to them. So we start at Part 1, on page 3, and there is a lot about section 32 evaluation reports being amended. And there are many sections here which relate to the making of national instruments. Those things are national policy statements (NPS) and national environmental standards, which can have very consequential effects for people using the environment, such as farmers. What the Government is doing with this suite of amendments is really enabling the Minister to do whatever they like, to have very little consultation and very little evaluation and analysis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI would like the Minister to explain how it is that the environment will be considered\u2014or not just considered but protection for the environment will be implemented and must be implemented by these new national environmental standards and national policy statements. Why I say that\u2014my worry\u2014is that Ministers will simply be able to make these national instruments, in favour of any sort of development they like. We did have a process like this in the past\u2014now, it was under the Resource Management Act, which, of course, Labour amended to try and fix how these national instruments were met\u2014with the plantation forestry rules. The NPS for plantation forestry was clearly driven by industry, and it caused a lot of detrimental environmental effects and also economic effects. It is not in the interests of our environment, of our nation, to have standards and regulations made that are just there for industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EMy final question on these national policy statements and national environmental standards is why the Government saw fit to get rid of the ability to have a board of inquiry process when developing these national policy directions. Now, I acknowledge that the board of inquiry process has rarely been used for these national instruments\u2014it has been used for the New Zealand Coastal Policy Statement\u2014but it seems to be a good option, when there\u2019s a tricky piece of environmental regulation to be done, for a Minister to put that to a number of very qualified people, in a board of inquiry, and with that board of inquiry process enable the draft regulations or national policy statement to be thoroughly examined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThat goes to my wider point of how, with really loosening up how section 32 works and reducing all the consultation requirements\u2014what comfort can the Minister give to people reading the Hansard in the future and to us in the Chamber today, this afternoon, that this process will be used in a rigorous way and it will protect the environment rather than just allowing development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022189599e433e442da84904d04d5eaab25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022189599e433e442da84904d04d5eaab25\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the member the Hon Rachel Brooking for bringing the attention of the committee to the streamlining and simplifying of the process to prepare and amend national direction. I thank, also, the Primary Production Committee, who made considerable input into this in terms of setting the 20-working-days requirement for consultation, and other amendments which they contributed to around the transparency of the Minister making this decision and making the information public. The board of inquiry process, as the member has already noted, hadn\u2019t been used since, I think, 2010 and therefore has been taken from the process to simplify it as one process that will be undertaken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u002228179aebcc974bc9a9edf4f2f27ed1f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228179aebcc974bc9a9edf4f2f27ed1f6\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I do have a number of questions, which I think we will have time to go over through this bit of scrutiny\u2014this tiny bit of scrutiny we\u2019ve got on a very, very sad day for democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ETo begin, I would like to know more\u2014and as has been sketched out by my colleague Rachel Brooking\u2014about new section 46A, \u201CProcess for preparing national environmental standards and national policy statements\u201D, inserted by clause 11. I am interested in understanding what that process is and how the process is aiming to establish this. I was particularly mindful of the process for the National Policy Statement for Renewable Electricity Generation, which set up a board of inquiry in 2010 that came back with the recommendations for a national policy statement, which also had recommendations for national environmental standards, and at that point they had to be implemented. The tricky thing there was that, of course, this happens through different Governments, and we didn\u2019t see the full implementation of those national environmental standards. Although we got a national policy statement, we didn\u2019t get national environmental standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really interested in understanding what the process is going to be and how the Minister imagines this will run; how the Minister intends to make this work, because what we are seeing is a real mess, quite frankly. We\u2019re seeing a throwing out of localism and something that looks very chaotic and disruptive and actually will create incredible uncertainty for environmental outcomes for our rural communities, for our businesses as well. I\u2019d be really keen to have some clarification from the Minister on what that is going to look like, if there is a process, and how the public and iwi will feed into that, how we are going to hear. Today, for example, I\u2019ve been fielding queries, concerns from iwi, from our local Otago Regional Council, from community members about this last-minute amendment that the Government\u2019s put in. I\u2019ve been fielding queries from a very, very concerned community that feels as though this Government not only has cut Otago adrift; it has disavowed the localism, the local decision making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI would like to hear from the Minister about how people are going to be able to participate, how people will engage, and what that will mean, because I\u2019ve heard that the Minister wants to work alongside councils, but at the moment this looks like an overriding of councils. It looks like a rejection of what councils have been working on for so, so long. How is the Minister going to consider local input, engage with iwi, ensure that local concerns are respected? How is the Minister going to do this through the process for preparing national environmental standards and the new national policy statement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI think, just to come back to the point, if the Minister thinks that standards that have been developed locally are stronger than the National Policy Statement on Freshwater Management, why then would a council need to go back and change a plan that has already been developed? It would be crazy for them to do that, unless it was going to be forced by some Government that wanted a council to be more permissive and allow polluting practices to happen. Why on earth would anyone be concerned by a plan that can deliver outcomes for better fresh water, for rivers that would be swimmable, for places that we can fish and we can drink from? Why would the Government be concerned about that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003ESo, for the Minister, I would just like the Minister to come back to me to explain how this process is going to involve our local communities, iwi, and ensure that we have better fresh water rather than polluted, toxic waterways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7547ae72ef74541a43193348516ee8c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7547ae72ef74541a43193348516ee8c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I too want to talk again about Amendment Paper 128, which I contend is beyond the scope of this bill, because rather than changing what\u2019s in these planning instruments, it actually says they can\u2019t be promulgated, which is a big change from the bill that\u2019s been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI want to explain to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Penny Simmonds, in case she doesn\u2019t know this history, as to how it is that Otago\u2019s got themselves into the pickle that they are in. In 2018, there was a decision from the Environment Court on the minimum flow for the Tarras river. It actually didn\u2019t please the environmental groups. The farming communities, who wanted a lower minimum flow, prevailed, and I respect that outcome. Indeed, even in respect of the other rivers in Otago that still don\u2019t have a minimum flow, I\u2019ve never expressed a view as to what the minimum flow should be, because I don\u2019t know what it should be\u2014I just know that there should be one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EIn any event, in that 2019 decision of the Environment Court, Judge Jackson said that the Otago Regional Council plan was in breach of the Resource Management Act (RMA) because it, essentially, said the flow for our rivers should be what\u2019s left in them after everything\u2019s sucked out of them under mining privileges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EYou have to understand what mining privileges are. The Otago region, and a little bit in South Canterbury, is different from the rest of the country because there were very old rights to abstract water that were granted originally to people who were sluicing for gold. They had a right to extract large amounts of water\u2014larger amounts of water than they actually did extract, but they had the right to extract large amounts of water. Those were open-ended rights. They weren\u2019t under the Water and Soil Conservation Act; they were mining privileges. They were converted to deemed permits under the Resource Management Act when it was passed in 1991 and it came into effect in 1992.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, because these deemed permits trumped a minimum flow and they weren\u2019t subject to either the Water and Soil Conservation Act or the Resource Management Act provisions, there was a transitional period allowed for those water users and the councils to work out what should happen with them. The period that was allocated for the conclusion of that transition was an incredibly long 30 years. I get boraxed from the other side when I say this, but I know that the farmers in that area were aware of this, because I was a young lawyer\u2014a lot younger than I am now\u2014in 1992. I went to woolshed meetings of Mr Ian Rutherford near \u014Ct\u016Brehua on the shoulder of James Kempster Guthrie\u2014Jim Guthrie\u2014one of the best water lawyers ever to have been in practice in New Zealand. Sadly, he died quite young a few years ago, but he explained to the farmers what the transition was for deemed permits into the Resource Management Act regime and explained that there was a transition\u2014a long transitional period\u2014to take place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, unfortunately, the regional council in the subsequent decades didn\u2019t do their job. It is wrong to say that the farmers in the area didn\u2019t know of the law: firstly, they did\u2014I\u00A0know they did. Secondly, any who recently bought those farms since the Resource Management Act came into effect would\u2019ve been advised by their lawyers as to the limits of their deemed permits, which were those old mining privileges. If they weren\u2019t properly advised, all of those farmers will have paid too much for their farms and would have a right of action against their lawyers, and, of course, there hasn\u2019t been any litigation because the lawyers in Central Otago already well understood the law and it was explained to the purchasers of those farms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThirty years later, the transition had virtually not been started by the Otago Regional Council, and, indeed, at the end of that 30-year period, they tried to, effectively, extend the effect of those mining privileges by another 30 years by granting RMA abstraction rights for 30 years, even though they didn\u2019t have a minimum flow on their river. At that point, the Government intervened and Judge Skelton, retired Environment Court judge\u2014one of the best Environment Court judges ever, in my opinion; very moderate man and a former commissioner in Environment Canterbury that had been put in that position by the National administration, so he\u2019s no lackey of any political party. He went down and he said, \u201CLook, we need to work these things through. We ought not to be giving permits for a 30-year period; we\u2019ll limit them to six years\u2014how about that?\u201D The council agreed that they would just give six-year rollovers, easily\u2014not a hard process; an easy rollover for six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, in the meantime, because their plan has been so inadequate, they\u2019ve been preparing a plan in light of the advice from Judge Jackson\u2014not what the Labour Government had done; in the light of Judge Jackson. In the meantime, the regional council was meeting its statutory duty to prepare a plan that did comply with the Resource Management Act, and they\u2019ve been at that for years\u2014they\u2019ve been at that for years. I don\u2019t know what it says\u2014I haven\u2019t read it\u2014but they\u2019re in a position now that they want to promulgate it, because their old plan since way back when has not been working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe sad thing is, during that period between the start of the RMA and now, the position has got worse because the actual amount of water that has been taken under those mining privileges has increased, sometimes tenfold, because at the start of this period, 30 years ago, it was neither economic nor was the technology really there to lift water up from some of these quite deep rivers relative to the banks of the rivers. While theoretically there was a right to take water for these mining privileges, in practice it didn\u2019t happen, except that during the last 30 years a lot more of it has been taken. These properties have increasingly been subdivided into smaller units, the farming practices have changed\u2014there\u2019s a lot more dairying, even in these desert-like regions of Central Otago\u2014they\u2019ve got a lot more reliance on water, and they\u2019ve actually increased the takes from those mining privileges which became deemed permits in practice in the intervening period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAfter this long period, more than 30 years after the RMA was passed, the regional council\u2019s now got to the point where it\u2019s got a plan that it wants to promulgate, and that\u2019s why this provision, that is now, I think, outside the scope of the bill, but we\u2019ll no doubt get advice from the clerk of the committee here, because nothing else in the bill until now has talked about delaying the implementation of the National Policy Statement on Freshwater Management (NPSFM)\u2014all it said was that it can\u2019t be applied to consents. Now they\u2019re, effectively, through this amendment, through this new clause 21A, saying that no one can promulgate a new freshwater planning instrument until the earlier of the new NPSFM that the Government says they one day might promulgate\u2014who knows if they ever will, we don\u2019t know that, that\u2019s the future; they might not have a political majority to do so within their coalition\u2014or 31 December 2025, whichever is the sooner. So, against that background, how can the Minister pretend to be the Minister for the Environment when the Minister is frustrating the promulgation of a plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, the promulgation\u2019s not the end of it. What happens after promulgation is the council has to have hearings, and generally in contentious matters like this they often go on appeal to the Environment Court\u2014another step\u2014as happened with the Lindis River, and it all turned out OK for the farmers. Why is it that the Minister thinks that after that history, which I have recounted there, after all of those decades of delay and millions of dollars being spent by the council\u2014now, what have they been spending money on recently? One of the criticisms that was made by parties to that litigation was that no one knew what the natural flows of these rivers were, because so many abstractions into water races and other things had been taken out that no one knew what the natural flow was, therefore they didn\u2019t know what some minimum flow should be related to those natural flows. They\u2019ve done all that work\u2014the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research did it\u2014they\u2019ve worked through some very, very difficult issues and they\u2019re ready to promulgate a plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhy do you, Minister, after that history, think that it is responsible\u2014if this is within scope, and I don\u2019t think it is, but if it is within scope, why, Minister, do you think it is responsible for you to sit there and say, having spent those tens of millions of dollars and worked up these difficult issues, gone through them all, at last got to the point where they can promulgate something where there can be a discussion in front of a hearings panel, you come in on the day before their vote\u2014sorry, not you, Mr\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d8c7b97b8e74920a9eb6bf4601c5b0f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Third person, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfbf015c4dc84d2c994de4531019faff\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, the Minister comes in the day before the vote and tries to pass legislation saying \u201Cthou shalt not even publish a plan.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00222fdcd2ff9b774d05bc5588e4fd69664b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222fdcd2ff9b774d05bc5588e4fd69664b\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The member essentially answered his question himself that the restricting of the notification of freshwater planning instruments is until either a new National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management takes effect or 31 December 2025, whichever is sooner\u2014despite the member somehow insinuating that this could go on for ever\u2014or an exemption is granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00220bcbc283ec7744a6ae4f0b982e534e82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bcbc283ec7744a6ae4f0b982e534e82\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have a question for the Minister in the chair, the Hon Penny Simmonds, around clause 10, which amends section 44 of the Resource Management Act (RMA), which is around the restrictions of power to make national environmental standards. I want to specifically, at this stage, focus on subclause (3) of clause 10. I want to focus on subclause (3) first because I would like to sort of indicate to you, Mr Chair, that I would like to take another call around other sections, particularly around replacement subsections (3)(a) and (4).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI would like some clarification from the Minister around this subclause (3) in terms of the replacement that is being done on the power to the Minister when it comes to making changes to the national environmental standards. Now, the current RMA is very limited and very specific. In fact, of replacement section 44(3), inserted by clause 10, only paragraph (f) is in the existing legislation, which is \u201Cto make changes that are no more than minor in effect, to correct errors, or to make similar technical alterations.\u201D However, under this bill, we have now introduced five additional ways that the Minister is able to make an amendment without public scrutiny or without any further advice or requirements from, for example, local government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EJust breaking down some of these sorts of areas in terms of aligning with New Zealand standards\u2014to give an example to the committee, Minister\u2014what sort of examples, when this was constructed, did the Minister have in mind, or what is the ministerial intent, when it comes to constructing some of these? If the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind giving an example of each. And why did the Minister feel that this should be something that is included? My argument is that this is incredibly broad and covers a number of scenarios, particularly when we\u2019re looking at, let\u2019s say, replacement subsection 3(b), inserted by subclause 10(3), around New Zealand\u2019s obligation under international conventions, protocols, or agreements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThis fundamentally comes down to the fact that Aotearoa New Zealand has a dualist system, in which case anything that we do sign internationally must first be put into domestic legislation before becoming law or becoming a part, under Aotearoa New Zealand. Would that mean, Minister, that when we\u2019re looking at the international convention protocol agreement\u2014which is signed without public consultations, and potentially without even going through the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u2014the Minister is able to, based on that signing of something overseas, make these sweeping changes to the national environmental standards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, the other elements over here\u2014for example, when it comes to extending the time frame, which is understandable, or to remove provisions in a national environmental standard\u2014I would like some advice from the Minister on an example of how then the Minister determines when something is no longer required. Would there be a report being produced? Would there be a certain benchmark that must be achieved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ESo, for all of these, particularly when it comes to replacement paragraphs (a) to (e), I\u2019d just really like some clarifications around why the Minister has decided to include these elements when the existing section 44(3) of the Resource Management Act is incredibly minute and specific and limited in scope, and broaden it out to all of these. I think, particularly, I would like the Minister to answer in terms of the process when we are looking at when Aotearoa New Zealand signs any sort of international agreement, covenant, or protocols, and how the Minister would then, without any other form of consultation, be able to make these sort of sweeping changes to the national environmental standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1872e838b5e4c57b9db9006ac845401\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1872e838b5e4c57b9db9006ac845401\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I would note that we have traversed some of this earlier, but, for the member\u2019s benefit, I complimented the Primary Production Committee on the improvement that they made around the national direction changes in terms of strengthening the transparency of the reasons why the Minister might take that approach, the need for the 20-day consultation period, and also in terms of the information that the Minister\u2014sorry, I\u2019m just looking quickly here for it\u2014will have to publish, in terms of the reasons why the decision was made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022 data-id=\u0022e554681be5bd4ec289fbf11447fdaa75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e554681be5bd4ec289fbf11447fdaa75\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you for the opportunity to take this call on the Amendment Paper. I would first of all like to congratulate the Minister. There is a massive sigh of relief going around rural Otago today for this measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EI would like to just pick up on some of the comments made by the Hon David Parker and get your clarity on this, because I think you reference he did actually answer some of his own questions. For my clarity, the example of the Manuherikia River and the minimum flow, would that be one of the reasons why you would be bringing this measure here today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003EFor those that don\u2019t know, and probably it\u2019s maybe an Otago-centric thing, for the river as it is now, there is a minimum flow, whether that\u2019s in statute or the council expects it to be at 900 litres per second\u2014is it the measure? The farmers actually voluntarily keep it at 1,100 and the implication is that, if this land and water plan is notified, it could be at a much, much higher level, which would place the economics and viability of farming in the Manuherikia Valley at absolute peril, putting in jeopardy the banking covenants and just throwing all sorts of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271549d8f0c08447894bb88191e6e7f91\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: But isn\u2019t that why you have hearings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208ac2e77749447ad99d079fadefa2263\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014uncertainty around this. If the former Minister says, \u201CIsn\u2019t that why we have hearings?\u201D, well, that is exactly what would happen here, of course. If the plan gets notified, it sets off a whole chain of events that ends up in the Environment Court, which will be a very, very expensive process, only for presumably the Minister, who has well-signalled her intention to repeal and replace the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management (NPSFM)\u2014the council will then have to go back into another process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003ECan the Minister confirm that what she is trying to do here is cut off that chain of events, to seek what she has instructed councils fairly carefully\u2014or guided councils probably is a better word\u2014to pause their planning process till the central government has worked through its NPSFM and the various Resource Management Act reforms that we\u2019re doing in this space? Of course, this very one that we\u2019re amending today is part of that whole process. To me, that would be what the Minister is trying to do. The member opposite, in raising the issue of the Manuherikia, actually gave your\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b83343e3e748464f9f7005f055fc21af\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c835cea664644a6a5c378ebc6f5d243\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m raising it for you, Mr Parker. He\u2019s actually giving an example of why this measure is absolutely required to give some certainty and stop what would actually be some chaos out there in terms of farmers in that region not knowing exactly where they stood, facing a very expensive process, only probably\u2014and almost certainly\u2014for the council to have to go back through the process again and just the massive uncertainty and complexity that that would bring. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00222164d227c54b43b0aac68cff12b4fade\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222164d227c54b43b0aac68cff12b4fade\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The member is absolutely correct: the Government is reviewing and replacing the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management (NPSFM), for those who perhaps haven\u2019t picked that up, and the time frame for that is an 18- to 24-month period. The Government has previously signalled to enable councils to have sufficient time to incorporate the replacement NPSFM the extended deadline to December 2027. Although most councils have picked up on that, some have not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EAbsolutely to avoid the inefficiencies and the duplication of work, as councils might have to have had to amend their plans almost immediately once a new NPSFM is gazetted, we have now brought in this restricting of notification to avoid that duplication, to avoid that cost. Ratepayers quite sensibly do not want to have to be paying out again for amendments once the NPSFM comes into being. They would prefer that their councils waited so that they could incorporate that at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u002277b78928080c46ad99ec638e90f24d9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277b78928080c46ad99ec638e90f24d9e\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Right, as you know, I\u2019m working through the clauses, but I would remind the Minister that there\u2019s a number of questions I asked that have not been answered yet. A couple were on the farm plans. What does \u201Crisk based\u201D mean, and what regulations will remain to protect our environment from pollution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022607bb47f36694c38a77c6bb247cbd813\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I invite the member to actually ask questions and ask the Minister to try and get the system of question and answer which was always intended for the committee stage? I know it takes two to tango, but perhaps you could try it, and from the Chair, I\u2019ll ensure that she does get the call, rather than having to go through a stack of questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7b6f0301e0842d5863eed376e207aba\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: OK, thank you very much for that, Mr Chair. These questions related to farm plans and the Minister\u2019s comments on how they\u2019re coming in the future but they\u2019re not here yet; they\u2019re going to be risk based. Then my second question was: whilst we wait for these paused farm plans, what is there to protect the environment from pollution in the meantime? Then I had a further question on Te Mana o te Wai and the cases that the Minister was referring to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022bef5e18384424c32906beb38220fd7ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bef5e18384424c32906beb38220fd7ea\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I don\u2019t recall that I referred to cases. I said there was variability in how the councils had been interpreting the absoluteness or otherwise of the hierarchy. I don\u2019t recall that, at any stage, I referred specifically to any cases. In terms of the freshwater farm plans in the short period between the pause and when the farm plan system has been improved, regional councils\u2014many of the councils themselves\u2014have localised regulations, and a number of the farming practices have changed considerably in that time. There are catchment groups across the country, so there is considerable work that has been going on that will continue to go on, and I would be very certain that farmers would not see this as a period where they can somehow go rogue. They are certainly very involved in the process of wanting to contribute to making sure farm plans are effective, and, therefore, the work will continue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022093de4849d5b49d8846d1bd9b8d33a32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022093de4849d5b49d8846d1bd9b8d33a32\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E That doesn\u2019t answer my question, though, which was\u2014the answer appears to be \u201CWell, there are catchment groups now.\u201D, and my question was: what regulation remains?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u002273c2dbdf9c4048cebfa923bcdaeec09b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273c2dbdf9c4048cebfa923bcdaeec09b\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I think I did answer it. I said about the regional councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbd8633106684348b50d3c56bd7c2040\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbd8633106684348b50d3c56bd7c2040\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E OK, so I heard the Minister say that some regional councils have been allowed to do their own plans\u2014unlike, of course, the Otago Regional Council, which I will get to in a minute. In terms of the answer on Te Mana o te Wai, well, I\u2019m not sure if the Minister said the word \u201Ccases\u201D or not. What evidence has the Minister got? What analysis has the Minister got that Te Mana o te Wai was being used in resource consenting decisions and that aspect alone was blocking the granting of those decisions, not other additional matters, just the fact of the Te Mana o te Wai hierarchy? I presume, then, that there is no evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EMy final question on my wrap-up questions was whether or not the Minister could give any comfort around national direction, actually, protecting the environment rather than just being a development jolly for the Government. No answer to that one either. Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIt is very serious that the Minister refuses to give us any comfort around the fact that national directions will be about the protection of the environment and the stopping of pollution, because we\u2019ve seen from a National-led Government in the past that these directions have been used for the betterment of industry\u2014forestry industry in particular\u2014and we\u2019ve seen again and again these types of regulations coming out from this Government that do nothing to protect our environment, which, of course, is what the purpose of the Resource Management Act is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, moving on, then, for me\u2014I\u2019m not stopping anybody else. I move now to clause 21, which is about the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity. The change here is that there\u2019s a stopping of the identification of these areas\u2014that is, areas where there is indigenous biodiversity. I would like the Minister to tell the committee if she has asked for it\u2014is there any evidence on what the effect of pausing this identification of new significant natural areas will be? Of course, the committee heard from submitters that any delay could result in the loss of taonga species due to unmanaged clearing of native vegetation and delayed action for pest control, so we\u2019re worried about what the effects of a pause would be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI also want to know from the Minister: why is it that the identification of those areas has to stop? Surely that is work that could be ongoing, and you could separate out the controls around what happens to those areas once they are identified? That\u2019s another separate question. I\u2019ll see if the Minister wants to answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00227c125eb7076142c18f83c21624a1d5eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c125eb7076142c18f83c21624a1d5eb\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The reason I didn\u2019t immediately answer the member\u2019s question about the national direction was the manner in which the question was asked. It assumed that there was no intent by this Government to protect the environment. There absolutely is. This Government has a suite of national direction instruments that are being worked on over the next few months with the intention of that very much being part of our second phase of the work that we are doing to reform the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThere is considerable work being done by this Government. This Government has always said that our work is to ensure that there are improvements over time to, particularly, fresh water. What we have ensured is that the improvements we want to see over time are workable and are going to be in conjunction with the ratepayers and the users of water. The changes that will occur will occur in a way where there is consultation undertaken, and we will ensure that they are workable to improve fresh water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u00228422652736db4503bee9ec7b6fc95b56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228422652736db4503bee9ec7b6fc95b56\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m really glad that my colleague across the Chamber the Hon Rachel Brooking has brought up clause 21, because I\u2019ve got some additional questions on that. Just for context about why this is so important, we know\u2014and the Ministry for the Environment, particularly, is being really clear about the fact\u2014that our ecosystems on which we depend are being degraded on multiple fronts. This isn\u2019t just kind of the idea about how biodiversity is nice to have and this is just a bit of tinkering we\u2019re doing. The biodiversity crisis in terms of species decline, habitat decline, ecosystem decline, taonga species\u2014which has been mentioned\u2014matters and we want to see, and the Government needs to be taking, action to actually address these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, I actually have an amendment up that proposes that clause 21 is deleted, and I want to refer to that. It\u2019s about clause 21, which is \u201CNew section 78 inserted (Time-limited modifications to NPSIB 2023)\u201D. This proposes to actually delete clause 21, which is on page 9 and line 17 of the bill. Why this is so important is that this clause directly impacts the effective and consistent identification, and therefore eventually steps to protect that biodiversity, and I wanted to step through and ask the Minister the rationale behind this clause specifically\u2014first, to examine what the clause will actually do. It will essentially stop provisions for three years. It stops the provisions being a consistent approach to identifying significant indigenous vegetation and fauna. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThis was one of the key issues. Biodiversity identification of these significant natural areas has actually been in place since the Resource Management Act (RMA) came in in 1991. One of the key barriers to why we\u2019ve been unable to actually make gains in the biodiversity space is that there hasn\u2019t been a consistent approach, so the fact that this is actually stopping the provisions that enable that consistent approach is simply nonsensical if this Government was actually serious about addressing our ongoing biodiversity decline. It stops territorial authorities in conducting assessments to actually identify these areas of significant indigenous vegetation and habitats of fauna.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI think what I\u2019m really interested in hearing from the Minister is: why the stopping of the actual identification? We know the information itself would actually get us further in understanding our challenges, in understanding the actions and initiatives and incentives that landowners would need to be able to put in place effective biodiversity actions. It also stops the provision that councils must give effect to the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity 2023 (NPSIB) as soon as practicable, so they now would have until 2027. Now, is it right to interpret\u2014and I\u2019m concerned about this, Minister, so I\u2019d love to hear your comments about this\u2014that this is a delay tactic by the Government to actually stop protecting these significant areas of indigenous vegetation and fauna?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m also interested in within this is that the NPSIB itself has a whole range of responsibilities which council has. This is everything from working with tangata whenua to the identification and protection of indigenous biodiversity to preparing a biodiversity strategy and monitoring these species. What impact does the removal of these provisions, if my amendment is not adopted by the Government, which I hope it is\u2014what impact will it have on the rest of council\u2019s roles and responsibilities in implementing the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022be0b4b315d994b07819fd424702bef2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be0b4b315d994b07819fd424702bef2e\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The significant natural areas (SNAs)\u2014this should not be a surprise to the member. It\u2019s in line with the Government\u2019s 100-day action plan to begin to cease implementation of new SNAs and to seek advice on operation of the areas, so it was well signalled that this would be work we would undertake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EContrary to what the member said, the suspension does not undermine or otherwise change requirements set out in the RMA\u2014I believe section 6\u2014with respect to the maintenance or protection of indigenous biodiversity. Any area of significant biodiversity identified during the suspension period, though, will not have the SNA provisions applied to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EWe have heard concerns that there are less significant areas that are being captured by the SNAs placing undue restrictions on how that land is used, so we are implementing the pause so that we can review the operation of the SNAs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00226373a65d7edf4711a9764c418845dd01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226373a65d7edf4711a9764c418845dd01\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Now, members, obviously, there\u2019s a very broad topic and there\u2019s still plenty to go, but a lot of contextual stuff now has been said, so we\u2019ll be starting to look for some specificity in the questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e98ad5ee5d12499383d7fab58c8717ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e98ad5ee5d12499383d7fab58c8717ea\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Associate Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. My question for the Minister is whether the Minister can confirm this\u2014a number of members on the other side have asked for specific examples of where the hierarchy of obligations has prevented the issuing of consents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003ENow, I was wearing another hat at the time, but my understanding was that this was a major problem in Environment Canterbury, and there was a huge backlog of consents. There was a decision made by Environment Canterbury, or their opinion was that under Te Mana o te Wai, they were unable to grant new consents or renew consents where the river was overallocated. This would have had the effect of, basically, people who had been in business for many years, farming in these catchments\u2014they would have, effectively, been unable to get a consent. It would have placed huge barriers on their ability to continue with their businesses and with their loans. It would have put everything at risk, and it created a huge degree of uncertainty in that region. I don\u2019t know whether the Minister or officials have any further thoughts on that one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226cac9fcd-1934-4007-b10a-4b9d301a0af1\u0022\u003EThe other point is the question around why we are delaying the farm plans. The Minister gave a number of good examples, but I\u2019d also suggest that another reason for the delay is to ensure that we do not duplicate a whole range of existing farm plans and force farmers, where they already have industry farm planning tools, to do another one. We\u2019re looking to ensure that for farmers\u2014to quote The Lord of the Rings\u2014we only have one plan to rule them all. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00229f78bc96654740b1ae2b5ab77aa05085\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f78bc96654740b1ae2b5ab77aa05085\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I have tabled an amendment to clause 23A of the bill, but before I talk to that, I want to put to the Minister a complaint that we\u2019ve received from a very senior lawyer\u2014a King\u2019s Counsel\u2014who said that the Primary Production Committee undertook to her, while she was acting on behalf of Forest \u0026amp; Bird, that the amendment that\u2019s now in clause 23A to amend section 107 would not be made in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EShe\u2019s written complaints to the Government, and I wanted to ask the Minister whether she is aware that the chair of the Primary Production Committee has said that \u201CWe\u2019re not contemplating that. Therefore, you don\u2019t need to submit upon it.\u201D, and, therefore, they didn\u2019t. If that is the case\u2014and I understand that to be the case\u2014I have never ever seen that in my history in this Parliament, where an undertaking was made to a submitter that \u201CYou don\u2019t need to cover that point, because we\u2019re not covering that in this bill.\u201D, only for the Government to, effectively, dishonour the undertaking that was made by a chair of a select committee to a submitter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, I know that all of the other complaints that we\u2019ve made about the appalling process around environmental legislation fall on deaf ears with this Government, so I\u2019m going to make the assumption\u2014notwithstanding the breach of that undertaking\u2014that it has been recorded by Sally Gepp KC in correspondence that I think most, or a lot of, members have seen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI just want to respond to something that the Hon Andrew Hoggard has said. I actually agree with Andrew Hoggard that there needs to be a period of adjustment so that things can improve gradually over time. I\u2019m not sure if he\u2019s heard me here, but the Hon Andrew Hoggard made the comment that there was a decision in South Canterbury which would have prevented farmers continuing to farm. My understanding is that he is referring to a report that was prepared by one of the groups there\u2014it might have been a Ng\u0101i Tahu - related group\u2014who said that they should not be granting a consent. I actually disagreed with that report from Ng\u0101i Tahu and I don\u2019t think that that\u2019s the decision that was taken by the regional council, and it is, in the end, their decision to take after they have received submissions from various parties. I agree with the Hon Andrew Hoggard that you have to adjust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWith the national objectives framework, the biggest risk to the farming community actually was in South Canterbury, and it was that we would have a maximum for dissolved inorganic nitrogen which couldn\u2019t be met in South Canterbury. Because we didn\u2019t want to inflict that upon the economy\u2014because the Resource Management Act is about more than just the environment; it is about fair economic outcomes\u2014we thought that that was too tough to go there, and so we didn\u2019t. In the attributes that have to be managed for in fresh water, we didn\u2019t have a maximum standard for dissolved inorganic nitrogen in the national direction. Councils could still have one, if they wanted, but we weren\u2019t imposing it by way of regulation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, my amendment to clause 23A(2A)\u2014this is the amendment that sort of reinstates the ability of councils to have some flexibility to allow a renewal or a new consent if it imposes conditions and there are already adverse effects and the conditions are going to improve things. At the moment, the amendment in clause 23A to insert new section 107(2A) says that the consent authority has to be \u201Csatisfied that those conditions will contribute to a reduction of the effects described in subsection\u00A0(1)(g) over the duration of the permit.\u201D, and those are the adverse environmental effects that are already being suffered. I think that that\u2019s too loose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWith respect, I think that it should be a meaningful reduction, otherwise you could have an insignificant reduction in adverse environmental effects, and it would, effectively, be given the tick-off through the amendment that\u2019s being made through clause 23A of the bill. My amendment inserts the word \u201Cmeaningful\u201D before the word \u201Creduction\u201D so that the consent authority would have to be satisfied that those conditions will contribute to a meaningful reduction of the effects described. Otherwise, Minister, what can continue is where we have got undue levels of pollution ruining waterways, it could effectively be ticked off for ever. I ask the Minister to indicate whether she will support my amendment to insert the word \u201Cmeaningful\u201D before the word \u201Creduction\u201D in new section 107(2A)(c). \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u00222043c6edf54f464bbf11dabc17e53133\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222043c6edf54f464bbf11dabc17e53133\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I actually want to bring the Minister back to an earlier line of questioning from the Hon Rachel Brooking. In the regulatory impact statement are the options for pausing the implementation of the freshwater farm plan. This is quite a specific question really. Is analysis done on the safeguards to environmental and human health? In that analysis comparing the status quo with the pausing of the freshwater farm plans, the existing time frames, if they remain, will allow councils to continue freshwater improvements as planned\u2014which is self-evident, obviously. The status quo will be an ability to improve freshwater conditions as planned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThe time frames under the freshwater farm plan pause will mean that there\u2019s a delay in when the system is fully implemented. It points out that there is a risk to fresh water in the short term, compared to the status quo, of potentially resulting in negative impacts on the health of waterways and people. My question to the Minister is quite specific: what are the negative impacts on the health of waterways and people that is risked by pausing the farm plans? What are the negative impacts to not just the health of waterways but also to the health of people, Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd88bd0b880940a9869b94cb216241af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd88bd0b880940a9869b94cb216241af\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I have already covered that area\u2014about the very brief pause between when the farm plans work has been done to improve that system and the fact that there are other local provisions. There is work that\u2019s been done already with farmers, with catchment groups, so the period will be relatively short and the work that is being undertaken will continue on. In fact, many of the groups are actively involved in assuring that the farm plans address the sort of issues that you brought up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022e195de7267ff4ca3b51d3b3bad73e53e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e195de7267ff4ca3b51d3b3bad73e53e\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just going back to remind the Minister of a couple of questions she hasn\u2019t answered\u2014then I will move on\u2014one was about the indigenous biodiversity national policy statement (NPS) and why stopping the identification\u2014she\u2019s answered the implementation question that it was in the 100-day plan, and it\u2019s had impacts that the Government feels are unreasonable on private property owners. But why stop the identification? That\u2019s one question remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe Minister the Hon Andrew Hoggard made a contribution and said, with Te Mana o te Wai\u2014he gave some examples that he had heard about, presumably when he was the president of Federated Farmers; he said, \u201Cwith another hat\u201D\u2014about when Te Mana o te Wai impacted on consents directly. Now, what I want to ask the Minister is: if that is true, if that is the case\u2014I\u2019m not saying it\u2019s not the case; I\u2019ve asked the Minister again for what advice she\u2019s received on that issue\u2014isn\u2019t the best thing to do to implement plans so that, when somebody is applying for a resource consent, they don\u2019t need to go to Te Mana o te Wai? How the resource management system works is that, if a plan has a rule and applies, you don\u2019t need to go up the chain to the national instrument\u2014if that national instrument has already been implemented. I would very much be interested in the Minister\u2019s answer to that issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI now want to move on, though, to Amendment Paper 128, and this is the one about what feels to me, being the member for Dunedin, to be a specific attack on the Otago Regional Council, who was going to have its meeting tomorrow to notify its freshwater planning instrument. What this Amendment Paper does is say, \u201CNo, no, no, despite the Resource Management Act at the moment saying that you have to act as quickly as you can\u201D\u2014and Otago Regional Council continuing, then, on their work to be legal\u2014\u201Cwe\u2019re going to change the law to say, \u2018No, you can\u2019t do that until either there\u2019s the new policy statement\u201D\u2014and we\u2019ve heard that\u2019s going to take about 18 months\u2014\u201Cor 31\u00A0December 2025.\u2019 \u201D, which is quite some time from now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister has said that we should all know that a new National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management (NPSFM) is coming. To that, I want to ask the Minister what she is so scared about in the Otago Regional Council\u2019s plan\u2014that hasn\u2019t yet been notified; I haven\u2019t seen it, I don\u2019t know what\u2019s in it\u2014that will be against her new National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management which, obviously, we haven\u2019t seen. All I can work out\u2014what would seem to be a reasonable presumption or assumption\u2014is that the Minister\u2019s planned new NPSFM will allow for more pollution than what she considers the Otago Regional Council\u2019s plan would. Now, if that is not the case, it is very important that it is in the Hansard. If the Minister wants to answer\u2014and I\u2019d like to come back to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u002272c8bc1a7712479c90c5cce36b782ba5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272c8bc1a7712479c90c5cce36b782ba5\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll refer again to questions by both the Hon David Parker and the Hon Rachel Brooking about why we\u2019re taking the hierarchy of obligations away from the consenting process. I need to make it very clear that the Government wants to address concerns that it has about the way it has been applied by some councils. I mentioned that right at the start; that it\u2019s been variable in how it has been applied. In some councils, it has been specifically that the applicants are being asked to demonstrate how their proposed activities adhere to the hierarchy of obligations and the impact this may have on consent decisions. It\u2019s the variable way in which it has been applied and the fact that it has been applied as an absolute in some instances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EIn terms of the restricting of the notification of freshwater plans\u2014and, again, I\u2019m repeating\u2014this is to avoid inefficiencies. It\u2019s to avoid duplication of work and costs to ratepayers, in terms of having to amend plans once the new National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management (NPSFM) is gazetted. It is a relatively short period until that work will occur\u201418 to 24 months\u2014and therefore we gave that very clear signal when we provided sufficient time for councils to incorporate the replacement NPSFM by extending the deadline to December 2027. We are now making it abundantly clear that they should avoid those inefficiencies and duplication.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022eed2f635b7f849a7870cf2dbea0feee4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eed2f635b7f849a7870cf2dbea0feee4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to ask the Minister to consider what\u2019s the likely reaction to this reaction by the incoming Government, because the last Government took six years to work through these issues as to water quality, because they are difficult and we made a few mistakes\u2014yeah, we did. I know the prior National Government tried to land fencing regulations, and we\u2019ll come to that in a second part. They\u2019re quite complex. Similarly, we tried to better deal with a matter we discussed last week, which was intensive winter grazing, but these regulations were improving and becoming more practical. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, what\u2019s happening here is the Government\u2019s effectively saying, \u201CLook, the outcomes-based framework that sits at the heart of the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management is not going to be given the time to work.\u201D Minister, are you aware that as a consequence of fiddling around with an outcomes-based framework, you effectively drive councils and those in the community that are worried about degrading water quality to input controls? Because input controls are really simple. They\u2019re really fast to implement, and that\u2019s what is coming next if the continuation in the degradation of water is allowed to continue, because an outcomes-based regime is not allowed to be given the time to work. The time to work, under the existing legislation, is a generation, a generation to clean things up, because it does\u2014and the standards aren\u2019t some sort of political whim. They were set by freshwater scientists, and these were moderate people. These weren\u2019t radical activists. These were long-experienced people who had a reasonable view as to what was necessary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI\u2019m asking the Minister: what would she say to the people who say that we should move to input controls? Input controls work, but they\u2019re economically less efficient. Now, the Greens have been calling for years for input controls. I remember Jeanette Fitzsimons saying that we should have a limit on the number of cows in overly enriched catchments. The Government says they want simple regulation; they don\u2019t want complex regulation and regulatory burden. Well, for the Minister, I tell you what: input controls are really simple. What would she say to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9376fba577e4f588197cc734a79834e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9376fba577e4f588197cc734a79834e\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Minister, for joining us this afternoon. I hope with your leave, Minister, we could actually talk about the slope maps and the changes to slope map rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221869cfe08db94ebfa1d688fa216d4bb0\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s in the next Part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e3e34c59d43494583670af0bb396147\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the next Part, just for clarity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed03085f9e00454eba713c9a7ed22d57\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e59f2be655b64b39b2b1e7eb9dc00002\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well, we\u2019ll come to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00227cbb1ca6264e497995a2e2754107b4a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227cbb1ca6264e497995a2e2754107b4a4\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Also, thank you, Minister, before, for pointing out the new edition of new section 44(3)(a) in clause 10. Now, I do understand where the Minister is coming from in that this is something that the\u00A0Primary Production Committee has discussed and, then, that (3)(a) was added as an\u00A0insertion. However, the Minister hasn\u2019t really answered my question in terms of addressing the concerns that I have around the scope of new section 43(3) of clause 10 in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, the reason I wanted to raise this part in particular\u2014like I said previously\u2014was to do with the fact that this part is so vastly different from the existing legislation. Also, despite the fact that (3)(a) and particularly (3)(b) have been included around accountability and transparency from a reporting perspective, when a decision is made and how it\u2019s reported is different from why or how the decision was made in the first place. To give an example to the Minister, let\u2019s look at (3)(b) in terms of implementation of New Zealand\u2019s obligations. When we are looking at any form of free-trade agreement (FTA), which, understandably, is considered an international agreement, and there are certain conditions in there, would the Minister then be able to bypass the process of section 46A in order to implement, or make changes to, the national environment standards on the basis of what is in an FTA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, the reason I mentioned this specifically is because of the fact that\u2014again, one of the situations we have in Aotearoa is the fact that the Government itself, without having any scrutiny or any proper form of scrutiny from the legislature, is able to make those kinds of international agreements. We\u2019ve done it in a way to ensure that it is not binding in the New Zealand context. It\u2019s only binding in the New Zealand context if it\u2019s introduced in a domestic legislation. However, what we\u2019re seeing here is the fact that the Minister, in fact, is able to make it binding by making adjustment or making changes in the form of secondary legislation to something on the basis of an international agreement. This is a significant deviation from some of the processes that we have come to when it comes to international agreements, protocols, and obligations. That is something that is of concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMinister, I also understand that potentially you could say that (3)(a) was introduced where the recommendation can consider what is more appropriate to follow the full process, and that is true, but what we have seen post - select committee adding this in is that there is no guidance or clarification of how a Minister is able to make that appropriate decision on whether 46A, under clause 11, should be followed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ENow, the other element that I wanted to check with the Minister, to get the Minister\u2019s clarification on, is around (3)(e), which is about removed provisions in a national environment standard that is no longer required as a consequence of changes to the legislation. We have seen, as an indication, that the Government is intending on removing a lot of Te Tiriti clauses from a number of primary legislations. In this particular case, with the removal of Te Tiriti clauses from primary legislation, that is, in fact, a change to legislation. Does that mean that technically speaking\u2014now, again, the Minister has the responsibility to determine the balance of whether 46A is needed, but the Minister, in fact, has the responsibility, or is able, to make those changes to national environment standards and remove any consideration to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, provided that that particular provision was removed in legislation. That is also something that I think is really concerning that requires the Minister\u2019s clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003ELastly, with (3A)(a), considering it was introduced by the Primary Production Committee, has the Minister taken any advice from officials concerning the secondary legislation that if a Minister did not appropriately judge whether they will continue to use the section 46A process or make their own determination under (3), would that trigger either a judicial review or, potentially, something before the Regulations Review Committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd59d4d2834644bab48d1c5926f925f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd59d4d2834644bab48d1c5926f925f5\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. It\u2019s been interesting over the last hour or so to listen to this debate, although it feels quite one-sided. I guess, as I come to my question\u2014well, firstly, it\u2019s really about the Minister feeling comfortable and explaining, herself, that she feels comfortable around allowing these two rather significant Amendment Papers to be dropped today, and if she can explain how she feels comfortable with Amendment Papers 127 and 128 being tabled by her colleague, the Hon Chris Bishop. The honourable member is the Minister for the Environment and their job is to protect the environment, whether it be fresh water, whether it be our soils, whether it be other parts of our environment, so my first question really is her explaining why she\u2019s comfortable with this\u2014if, as the Minister for the Environment, she can feel comfortable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EMy second part I\u2019ll get to is on the Amendment Paper, in new clause 40B, but it really is around the narrative that we keep hearing. It was when we had the second reading last week, members of the Minister\u2019s own party made it really clear about getting Wellington out of farming. It\u2019s an unusual statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224928a45f2454a1ca8454c34d01fe4c1\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: What a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295f9413dc240491fbfd26e012a2a3008\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s an ironic statement really, because if we used that for \u201Cget Wellington out of driving\u201D, that wouldn\u2019t be so good, I don\u2019t think. Whether we talk about getting Wellington out of housing consents, I think we\u2019d understand leaky homes in the situation, or do we get Wellington out of crime? What would that look like? I think it\u2019s a false statement around getting Wellington out of farming, because the irony is that then they prescribe over the top of\u2014as we\u2019ve heard\u2014regional councils like Otago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EThen, if we look at the Amendment Paper\u2014and I want a really clear explanation because I don\u2019t feel like we\u2019ve had it yet this afternoon. If we look at Amendment Paper\u00A0128, on page 2, it\u2019s about clause 40B, which is around the \u201Cschedule and the amendments to section 80A made by section 21A of the amendment Act apply on and from 22 October 2024 as if they were in force on and from that date.\u201D I\u2019d like to ask the Minister: why that date? I\u2019d like to ask the Minister what is at stake for her as the Minister for the Environment if that date was to be moved or changed? Why does it need to be today? Why couldn\u2019t it even be 22 November, 22 December, or further afield? I would like real clarity from the Minister on why that date is so significant and what it would mean if it was changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003EGoing back to the original question I asked, which was really around how she feels comfortable, as the Minister for the Environment, to allow these two significant changes to be made today without any engagement with the public of Aotearoa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022fff91bd1739245b896c76313c3130035\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fff91bd1739245b896c76313c3130035\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll answer the questions from the Green Party member, Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan. The bill clarifies and expands the circumstances where minor updates to national direction can be made without a consultation and submission process, but before making a decision, the Minister is required to consider the appropriateness of using the full section 46A process. After making the minor update, the Minister has to be transparent about publishing the reasons for the update. In terms of judicial review, there is always a judicial review opportunity for decisions that are made within the Resource Management Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EIn terms of the member who has just taken his seat, Glen Bennett, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s of any interest to members of this committee or the wider community whether I am comfortable or not. There are amendments that have been tabled, and they are here for us to debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d238a06a267c440da458d9e008df587b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d238a06a267c440da458d9e008df587b\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I note, Madam Chair, that the previous Chair encouraged me to ask questions and get a response from the Minister, so that is why I sat down before the end of my time before, but it has taken some time to get the call again, so I presume that you are taking a different approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3931e73a7944a4abae8aa55f6983f4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3931e73a7944a4abae8aa55f6983f4a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m happy to take that approach. I just hadn\u2019t had it indicated to me in the last call. If you indicate to me that there are more questions, we can roll with that process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7333478c2fa4b06945f8b877d3b3fed\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: OK, thank you very much for that clarification, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI was on the Amendment Paper 128, and there was a response from the Minister in the chair, the Hon Penny Simmonds, that why we have this Amendment Paper is for efficiency. In response to that, I put it to the Minister that it is not efficient to stop a process that has been in train for so long unless\u2014well, in particular, once plans are in place, then there is no requirement to rely on a hierarchy of Te Mana o te Wai in terms of consenting because you just go to whatever the plan rule is; that\u2019s one reason. The second reason why the efficiency argument makes no sense to me is that it assumes that there will be major changes in the Minister\u2019s new, yet to be seen National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management (NPSFM). There can\u2019t not be a huge change coming, for her argument to be that is inefficient. I can see the Minister is looking at her papers, so I will continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe heard from my colleague Glen Bennett just then about new clause 40A, inserted by Schedule\u00A01, in this Amendment Paper, and that is the retrospective application of clause 40B, which is the one that says you can\u2019t do anything until the end of 2025. This is remarkable\u2014we have had this Amendment Paper drop today with a retrospective clause. Of course, the Government knows that this bill can\u2019t get Royal assent today\u2014this is retrospectively referring to today, 22 October 2024. And we know\u2014well, we assume\u2014that why this date is chosen, which is what my colleague was just talking about, is because we know that the Otago Regional Council is meeting tomorrow on 23 October 2024 to notify their plan. This has been well signalled. We ask the Minister to confirm that this retrospective application of clause 40B is specifically to stop the Otago Regional Council from meeting tomorrow on 23\u00A0October\u00A02024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI also ask the Minister how she can justify the use of a retrospective clause. Does she understand, and does this Government understand, what a big constitutional issue it is when retrospective, any retrospectively\u2014I can\u2019t even say the word, it\u2019s such an appalling concept. Does she understand, and does this Government understand, what a big constitutional issue it is when any retrospectivity is used? The justification of efficiency just makes no sense unless\u2014unless\u2014her next version of the NPSFM is going to allow more pollution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, I will continue on with this Amendment Paper because, at 40B, we have some ability for the Minister to say, \u201CWell, actually, some freshwater planning instruments can go ahead if it\u2019s relating to a range of factors\u201D, and that\u2019s flood protection, natural hazards, progressing housing development, and some other issues are there as well. I can\u2019t see anything on this list about pollution or the environment, and I wonder why that is and if the Minister would consider adding something about pollution or the environment. I also wonder if this clause\u2014and if the Minister has any advice on what incentives it will make to regional councils to break up their plans into component parts that match the subparagraphs in this Amendment Paper. [Time expired] Madam Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a3f08dc72eb4d88a0cecfa0849ebb38\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Rachel Brooking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a13c5bbff45439798384911efa3924c\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. My concern, just looking at this today, this afternoon, is that this might incentivise councils to say, \u201CWell, actually, we\u2019re just going to do part of a plan that is just about flood protection, but we\u2019re not necessarily going to integrate that with important work on housing.\u201D Of course, all planning is integrated\u2014we know that it\u2019s not a great idea to build housing in a flood plain. I\u2019m interested to know if the Minister has had any advice or has considered what this exemptions clause in 40B will do. I want to know how it can be that a retrospective application under clause 40A can be, unless her new environment National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management is just going to enable more pollution. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u002294414b09dc8b4b36b0ea9007f8a1ca18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294414b09dc8b4b36b0ea9007f8a1ca18\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would remind the member that, while retrospective legislation is not the norm, it has been used before. In fact, the Labour Party will remember their own Sir Michael Cullen, who brought in taxation law that was retrospective. The next version of the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management (NPSFM) is going to occur over the next 18 to 24 months. There will be a considerable consultation period, and so I will not predetermine\u2014and I think it\u2019s unfortunate that the member is trying to predetermine\u2014what might be in the next NPSFM. We will go through that in a fulsome process. The exemptions pathway is just that\u2014there may well be a need to have exemptions, and therefore there is a pathway there that councils can seek to go down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6fee3de07bb4bb296024fb814843c82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6fee3de07bb4bb296024fb814843c82\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d like to take the Minister to clause 10(4), which inserts a new section 44(3), which describes the circumstances when a Minister, without going through a more fulsome process, can make a change to a national environment standard, is my understanding. In particular, I want to draw the attention to the one-sided nature of paragraph (d).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThis went to the Primary Production Committee saying that \u201C(3) The Minister need not follow the process referred to in section 46A if the Minister is recommending the making of an amendment for 1 of the following reasons:\u201D, and then it lists the reasons (a) to (f). Paragraph (a) is \u201Cto align with a New Zealand Standard\u201D\u2014seems pretty sensible. Paragraph (b) is to implement international convention protocols\u2014OK. Paragraph (c) is to give effect to a provision in an emission reduction plan\u2014agreed with that. Paragraph (e) to remove provisions with the national environmental standard that are no longer required and they\u2019re becoming redundant\u2014seems fair enough. Paragraph (f) to make changes that are no more than minor or to correct errors\u2014I agree with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThen we come to paragraph (d). It went to the Primary Production Committee saying, \u201Cto change the time frame for implementation of any part of a national environmental standard\u201D\u2014quite a wide power; a lot different to all of the other ways that you can change it. Now, not only is it a very wide power, it seems to me to be giving a workaround to the ability to have a decent process around change to national direction. It\u2019s actually now only \u201Cto extend the time frame\u201D\u2014so, once again, one-sided. You can extend the time frame but you can\u2019t reduce it. Not only can you extend it but you can extend it for any part of a national environment standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI want the Minister to explain how she could interpret that clause as being anything other than allowing the Minister to make an extension to the time frame for any part of it. For example, next time there\u2019s a complaint made by the National Party as to some regulatory provision in any of these national environmental standards, the Minister could rely upon the new section 44(3)(d) to extend the time frame for implementation of any part of a national environment standard. And how can that loose amount of wiggle room that is allowed to a Minister to effectively render ineffective what could be the most substantial part of national direction\u2014why should this Parliament agree to the Minister having that power?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022 data-id=\u0022238aba81f7f842fcaffe2035e3f05a21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022238aba81f7f842fcaffe2035e3f05a21\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to ask a few questions in relation to Amendment Paper 128, because I think we want to really understand what the rationale behind these changes is. What we can see here is a last-minute amendment that really looks like it\u2019s giving the middle finger to localism and to Otago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t think we can expect Otago residents, Otago councillors, and iwi to understand why this has been done at this time, unless the Minister can give a full account of why today this amendment has been dropped in here. I\u2019m also interested in understanding why the Minister thinks the costs will increase because of duplication, because if standards that the local community, farmers, and iwi arrive at are more strict than legislated, then is that really an issue? Or is it simply localism at work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve heard from one of the Otago regional councillors is that this amendment has made a nonsense of the idea that Otago has local decision-making independence\u2014that\u2019s Councillor Alexa Forbes. What would the Minister say to Councillor Alexa Forbes? Does this action by central government\u2014by Wellington\u2014over all the actions of our local council, of iwi, and of our community, give anyone any sense that we can divine and direct our own future in the deep South, or does it show an arrogant override of everything that we worked for in the deep South?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EAs has been canvassed, there will be a meeting tomorrow. It was to notify the planning instrument\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2379954346447578c76fccdd63cc283\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: They still can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225dbea9faf27446db7f83739268cfaba\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: We can\u2014and I urge the Otago Regional Council to hold that meeting tomorrow. We have seen Otago get out about the cuts to our hospital. We\u2019ve seen 35,000 people on the streets. The Hutton Theatre only has 230 seats, so I\u2019m hoping\u2014and I will be putting the request out that they do hold that meeting tomorrow because local decision-making is critically important. It\u2019s important for our environment. This is so important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EAnother question that I have for the Minister relates to something that my colleague Lawrence Xu-Nan alerted us to earlier. What assessment has the Minister done on her actions in this bill\u2014what assessment has she done on the impacts to the free-trade agreement with the EU? What impacts is this likely to have on our free-trade agreement and for our farming community\u2014for their access to the EU to sell products? What impacts is this going to have?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a6489ff5-e18c-4c19-958d-3cec5c52c0cc\u0022\u003EI can tell the Minister, I was at an EU event last night and this action was discussed. This was an informal meeting\u2014an event I was at\u2014but I would be very surprised if there are not substantial consequences for our farming communities because of this Government\u2019s actions. I think we can do better, but I would like the Minister to explain what assessments have been done to look at the trade implications of not just this last-minute amendment but the whole work that we\u2019ve seen from this Minister. I have a number of other questions, but I\u2019d like a response, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00225c9e5179699e40ad907ec8be9a968810\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c9e5179699e40ad907ec8be9a968810\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019ll just repeat the information that I have given previously that this restricting notification of the freshwater plans is in line with the extension of time that we gave councils to have until the end of December 2027 to notify and that the new National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management (NPSFM) will be undertaken over the next 18 to 24 months. The member somehow is conflating this restriction as an end to localism. The restriction is in place until either a new NPSFM takes effect or 31 December next year\u2014whichever is the sooner. It is a relatively short period of time. It is to ensure that there is not duplication of effort, time, and money so that the council can take into consideration the new NPSFM.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022 data-id=\u00224a1bb64c434b40ffb2db2b9d989e6eb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222170b5bd-171f-4d9f-bfa6-cab72178f108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a1bb64c434b40ffb2db2b9d989e6eb8\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00223fd2694a0ff74a31a179d4628d71cde9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fd2694a0ff74a31a179d4628d71cde9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to take a call from Lan Pham, but we\u2019ve been on this part for almost the best part of two hours now. When I came into the Chair, I had been listening and the previous Chair had said we need a get a bit narrower and more specific. I\u2019m really expecting specific and new. Lan Pham, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022b829f1fa6b3a45978107263a9da6a3fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b829f1fa6b3a45978107263a9da6a3fc\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I really appreciate that, particularly because we are really trying to step through this bill bit by bit, and I appreciate that you\u2019re saying that you want us to get straight to the point. I have two amendments on the Table with regard to Part 1 that I would like to speak to, Madam Chair, and I hope you will allow me to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThe first is with regards to deleting clause 23. Now, this is in Part 1 on page 11 of the bill and it\u2019s titled \u201CSection 104 amended (Consideration of applications)\u201D. I\u2019m really interested to hear from the Minister some advice on this, because this is the clause meaning that consent authorities will not have to have regard to the hierarchy of obligations in Te Mana o te Wai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, why I\u2019m really interested in this clause is that, for example, we know that\u2014and, again, taking Otago Regional Council as an example, they have regard and clauses in their regional policy statement that actually uphold the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management and actually upholds Te Mana o te Wai. I\u2019m interested to hear from the Minister how this will be struck out when it\u2019s actually in higher order planning instruments, and what effect that will have on the precise consent decisions that are made that come up application by application, and decisions actually have to be made on these applications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EWithin that, I haven\u2019t yet heard from the Minister what the Government\u2019s intentions are with clauses like this that are throughout the bill. Is freshwater improvement an actual goal of this Government? I\u2019m yet to hear it. I think it would be of great comfort to those who are watching, to those who are interested in these freshwater reforms, if that intention is actually part of this Government\u2019s approach with the reforms and how it directly relates to these consent decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI wanted to also touch on another amendment, which is to do with clause 23A, and this is on page\u00A012 of the bill. This is the clause that actually removes the restrictions on discharge permits, and this is about the case that the Environmental Law Initiative took with regards to Ashburton Lyndhurst Irrigation Scheme. It was interesting hearing my Government Minister colleague assert that councils were declining consents as a result of this High Court case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, what I want to talk about and draw attention to and hear the Minister\u2019s thoughts on is the fact that in Canterbury\u2014where this case took place and this High Court decision was made\u2014there\u2019s been assertions made that the council are declining consents. The Environmental Law Initiative have directly examined the consents coming out and being granted by Environment Canterbury and I want to quote them here. They\u2019re saying, \u201CReviewing these, we have found nothing to suggest that the law has been made unworkable across a wide range of discharges, or even that any consents have been declined because of the High Court decision.\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c41863185454bcdbac2d7348f317727\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Really? That\u2019s not what we heard from others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2702bf12f1640adbc3ca38b50f03bc5\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that\u2019s not what we\u2019ve heard from others, but that\u2019s what the Environmental Law Initiative found\u2014\u201CIn fact, we have found that ECan has continued to issue discharge consents across Canterbury including for a town stormwater network, stormwater from housing and industry, septic systems, spraying agrichemicals within and adjacent to \u2026 waterways in the Canterbury Region, and [for] farming activities.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EWhat this is telling us is that the rationale for this clause change that will massively impact fresh water not only in Canterbury but across the country\u2014the rationale is not there. No one has the automatic right to discharge contaminants to water. While councils may expressly allow discharges, their powers to do so are not unlimited. What\u2019s really concerning about this clause, and this proposed clause in the bill, is that it\u2019s essentially accepting the degraded state of our waterways, especially in our most degraded areas. It\u2019s saying just because they are degraded and that we\u2019ve already declined them to a level where they are breaching\u2014whether it be human health standards; whether it be nitrates or phosphorus or sediment\u2014that people can continue to pollute without limits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, I don\u2019t think anyone in the country would be welcoming of that change, and that is not something that has been signalled. It is not something that came up at the Primary Production Committee that was entertained by the chair to actually be a substantive issue that they would then make recommendations of. I was there at the hearings when the chair very clearly said that changes in this clause were out of scope for this bill. Yet we\u2019re seeing them here, we\u2019ve got the amendments with the Otago Regional Council and stopping regional councils from actually undertaking their democratic right. It is not OK, and I\u2019d really like to hear the Minister\u2019s explanation for these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022a80c59910b9d414085403d2738ab21b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a80c59910b9d414085403d2738ab21b9\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m sorry the member did not hear before when I made it very explicit that this Government wants to see improvements in fresh water over time and that our Resource Management Act work will be towards that. In terms of the clarifications around the consenting discharges, again, there are matters there that were creating uncertainty that some discharges in degraded catchments while providing for improvement over time might be turned down. Again, it is about providing certainty that where there is an ability to manage the discharge and the improvements, that that should be able to be consented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022 data-id=\u002222212f94dc67453f9f8f5ab953fca0ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244967dc4-6cc7-4567-b8ef-cc3a9b354544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222212f94dc67453f9f8f5ab953fca0ed\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b686c11625004f7581e1343483e2ba0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b686c11625004f7581e1343483e2ba0d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022192be99568ad43e08a05fd58ce6049bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022192be99568ad43e08a05fd58ce6049bf\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chair. Now is the time when I invite the Chair to rule on the issue as to scope that I raised in respect of the amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002285906ba4379646c5a3feca701b84e25a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285906ba4379646c5a3feca701b84e25a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK, so I have a Speaker\u2019s ruling here, Speaker\u2019s ruling\u00A0131/4, that advises me that the Amendment Papers posted by the Minister responsible for RMA Reform are in order. Amendment Paper 128 is clearly relevant to the bill\u2019s subject matter. Whether or not a matter is new policy is not a concern for the Chair as long as it\u2019s not inconsistent with the bill\u2019s principles and objectives. The Minister\u2019s amendments do not reach that high threshold. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022124cf163fa3d4c0db351883cd4eb1811\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002203ec7ec97c494e75a54693eaa0cc82af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203ec7ec97c494e75a54693eaa0cc82af\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part\u00A01 set out on Amendment Papers 127 and 128 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e99cb02a71384ecb8601ba11acde43af\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00225d009a444b3e4cc8ad92968df01c5962\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d009a444b3e4cc8ad92968df01c5962\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 21 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e5b40b2c61344cbaa3472b1c04ac525f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u002278870b55381a4641a6e651701c1ae7bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278870b55381a4641a6e651701c1ae7bc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 22 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002253b8abec9b884dbaae56034fb928ebd3\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022482aca5c5f724d068498edbf535fb560\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022482aca5c5f724d068498edbf535fb560\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 23 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002279b6a53f4a534322976972a45b0f8c3c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6beb93e494f491db7292738676afb00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6beb93e494f491db7292738676afb00\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Lan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to delete clause 23A be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002232b4433cd70948a69989721b921cb096\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u00229ddfd96924744314af44065dccd56430\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ddfd96924744314af44065dccd56430\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The tabled amendment to delete clause 23A in the name of the Hon Rachel Brooking is out of order as being the same in substance as an amendment previously not agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Hon David Parker\u2019s tabled amendment to clause 23A be agreed\u00A0to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e125b2d46b0c48289b9d2584695b7352\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00223a21bed37e004ffea66aa2e1e899066e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002222cd0b3f45f1435396aa3df954021b4b\u0022\u003EPart 2  Other matters \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022e83df6cafc044d20a456c2d06a12d500\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e83df6cafc044d20a456c2d06a12d500\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 2. Part 2 is the debate on clauses 28 to 30, \u201COther matters\u201D, and Schedule 2. The question is that Part\u00A02 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae5d5d3cec6f43fd8a560d33b06e112f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae5d5d3cec6f43fd8a560d33b06e112f\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019d like to immediately speak to Schedule 2, the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management. There\u2019s an extraordinary proposal in this legislation that enables the intrusion into wetlands and removal of protection from wetlands to facilitate coalmining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ENow, to give some context for this, if the objective of the Resource Management Act is to protect the environment, then destroying one of the most valuable attributes of our environment and our ecosystem structure, which is wetlands, to facilitate coalmining, which is widely recognised as the dirtiest of the fossil fuels\u2014though, it turns out liquid natural gas and other forms of gas, when you take into account future emissions, may actually be more polluting for the environment, but that\u2019s what this Government\u2019s going to do as well. When you\u2019re facilitating the access to the densest, most polluting fossil fuel, coal, for the purpose of it being burned, whether locally or abroad\u2014in fact, it would be probably burned abroad\u2014you are undoubtedly doing significant harm to the environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ETo add more insult to injury in terms of this legislation facilitating the destruction of our wetlands, we have already lost 90 percent of our wetlands in this nation since human arrival, so we have this tiny fraction of those wetlands left. They are one of the most effective means of absorption of carbon dioxide. We are destroying the nature that is actually helping to absorb the emissions, and we\u2019re doing it to access coal. It\u2019s quite extraordinary that this is a credible policy position for an environmental legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221cd33f16-add4-4363-a2d4-f457841a5c4c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a981826ec8f4f21918bff7be0df62ba\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not credible. It\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df6488a79424492f8b7a6db8a490766c\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: It is not credible at all. It\u2019s outrageous. My question to the Minister, in the simplest terms, is: how can you possibly, as the environment Minister, with a straight face, seriously justify the destruction of native indigenous wetlands, which have an incredible value to us in terms of biodiversity, have an incredible value in terms of sources of species that breed and populate our rivers that come from wetland ecosystems, and are a rare ecological phenomenon in the landscape now, because they are so often the target of draining and of destruction for the purposes of farming and, in this instance, for the purposes of coalmining?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI have an amendment explicitly in regard to this clause, an amendment which would ensure that this particular part of the legislation was removed. That should be done because it is the most possibly\u2014I mean, there\u2019s many outrageous things in this legislation, but among one of the most outrageous things is the destruction of wetlands for coalmining. How does the Minister justify this with an environmental responsibility?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u002238a55a281f344a6295fe5443533fdc18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238a55a281f344a6295fe5443533fdc18\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The member somehow implies that this gives consent. In fact, this aligns coalmining with other extractive industries. The same gateway tests would still apply. The management of significant adverse effects on wetlands and significant natural areas (SNAs) would apply. It is simply aligning coalmining with other mining activities. It is not giving consent to anything. It is aligning the consenting process, and there is nothing that prevents local rules and plans being established to provide additional protection\u2014a prohibition status\u2014for specific wetlands or SNAs identified at a local level. So it is simply aligning coalmining with all other mining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u0022e25e79fef8374371bb90c9876126e22e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e25e79fef8374371bb90c9876126e22e\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. On the coalmining topic, it\u2019s good that we\u2019ve made it to Schedule 2, given that we did not have a chance to discuss Schedule 1 before the debate was shut down and before we got into any detail on the inclusion of section 107 changes too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EDoes the Minister understand that coalmining is different from other mining because coal is burnt and produces climate change emissions, and that is why there was an exclusion\u2014or a specific \u201Cno more new coalmining\u201D? I ask this question because many members in her party seem to say, if anybody ever questions a mine of any sort, they are a hypocrite if they have a cellphone. I am happy to say that I have a cellphone and that there is no coal in that cellphone, because, of course, coal is not a precious metal or anything of the sort. Coal is used to be burnt to produce heat, and it creates emissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI hear some heckling. I can\u2019t hear it all, but if Government members want to explain how coal is in my cellphone, I\u2019m very interested to hear about that. I appreciate that many minerals that are mined are in cellphones, but coal has been treated differently from other minerals for a very specific reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2db4f871f414a7c857fc331bd6d31ea\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: The energy used to make it perhaps?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac1efb208cb545e9ad178bb3c2d6edb0\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m glad Government members have so much to say about this, and I look forward to their insightful contributions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, we are on Schedule 2, and, of course, this involves both changes to intensive winter grazing and also to the stock exclusion regulations. I\u2019ve also heard many members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd3db459e14f49b49c260ff21858f506\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What about the clock?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022789fcb024fd041d9be44f2369c27324f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I\u2019ve got lots of time here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b41717fc38f441aaa655204f1b86fec5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Shall we start the clock, Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226113b1b9c6254a01b1a7fbccc222229f\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t see any need to start the clock! Now, we\u2019ve heard from many people about intensive winter grazing, and the same sort of argument has been used as well for the stock exclusion regulations: that because there have been improvements\u2014because of the regulations that this bill is going to get rid of\u2014there is now no need for regulation. I see a flaw in that logic. And that, of course, is because the improvements have been made because of the incentives created by those regulations, and by removing these regulations, the incentives won\u2019t be there any more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWhat advice has the Minister received to say that this won\u2019t be the case\u2014that the removing of the regulations and the incentives will not lead to the behaviour that happened prior to these regulations? What is the Minister going to do to monitor the situation? And will the Minister make a commitment to this House that, if there are any backward steps in either intensive winter grazing or the stock exclusion regulations, she will jump with the urgency that we\u2019ve seen today to stop the Otago Regional Council from meeting tomorrow to implement these incentives for environmental protections?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe are talking here about regulations that are to protect our environment\u2014and also there are some animal welfare issues with the winter grazing\u2014that is, to stop mud going into rivers. Sedimentation is a huge pollutant, and the stock exclusion regulations are, obviously, to stop stock both being around water bodies and also doing other things that stock do which might get into those waterways and increase pollution. I\u2019ve asked the Minister some very direct questions that I\u2019d like the answers to. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022d024c8e2c618433ea86db1c3b80a47a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d024c8e2c618433ea86db1c3b80a47a8\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The questions from the member the Hon Rachel Brooking regarding intensive winter grazing\u2014and she mentioned slope land, but I don\u2019t know that there was a question in that\u2014yes, there have been significant improvements made, and I think that the member does an incredible disservice to farmers to suggest that this was brought about only because of the regulations that were brought in, I think, in 2022. Farmers have been working on this for many years, fencing waterways, planting riparian planting, new and improved effluent systems, winter pads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EThese matters have been at the heart of changes in management practice by farmers, and so I am disappointed but not surprised that a Labour member would somehow try and take all the credit and\u00A0do\u00A0such a disservice to farmers, who have been doing this hard work for many, many years. Intensive winter grazing, as we know, is primarily in the South Island, and so it is well known to both the member and myself. Those improvements have been incredibly obvious for a number of years, and this Government backs farmers to continue with those improvements, because farmers will always be trying to do the best for their land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u00229c99a62456084d8ca41659c2a7a77a3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c99a62456084d8ca41659c2a7a77a3b\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I want to talk about the stock exclusion rules, the fencing rules. Now, the last National Government tried to land fencing exclusion rules, and they\u2019re quite hard to land properly. They got very close. Nick Smith wanted to do it, but in the end they didn\u2019t quite get it across the line and there was a change of Government in 2017. We took that up, and I want to explain why it was that we got to the point where we thought they were necessary. Mark Cameron would be well aware of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe Kaipara is one of the biggest harbours in the world\u2014magnificent harbour. It\u2019s the spawning ground for most of the snapper on the West Coast of the North Island. It\u2019s also the place for the juvenile white pointers\u2014you know, quite a rare species these days. There is so much sediment now in the Kaipara that I was speaking to an underwater photographer who photographs white pointers, and he\u2019s got to be a metre away from them before he can see them. I found that quite a scary thought, that he was brave enough to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, the recent mudbanks\u2014and I\u2019m not criticising the vast majority of farmers here, but the recent mudbanks in the Kaipara are two\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6656b88659346da8bf327898ad2c1fb\u0022\u003EMark Cameron\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019ve been there for decades, David.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d85ca306714404b95b3083879093bda\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, the recent ones, Mark\u2014the recent ones are two metres deep. I\u2019ve been taken there as the relevant Minister with the local councillors and shown recent mudbanks close to where the H\u014Dteo River comes in and where the Wairoa rivers come in, and every tide you see an extra film of sediment that\u2019s settled on all of the boat ramps. These recent mudbanks are literally two metres deep.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s necessary to do that? Well, it\u2019s a complex problem to fix, and, as a Government, we committed $100 million of taxpayers\u2019 money to help with that clean-up, matched money from the councils, particularly Auckland Council\u2014it\u2019s a wealthier council than the Northland Regional Council, Auckland Council being a regional unitary authority covering the regional council functions as well\u2014and really good input from farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI went up there with the Prime Minister at the time, Jacinda Ardern, and met with a dairy farmer, a dairy farmer very proud of the clean streams accord in 2003, which led to the dairy industry largely and very effectively\u2014in a way that I think reflects very well on the dairy industry\u2014fencing most of its waterways. The dairy farmer took Jacinda Ardern and myself out the back and said, \u201CLook, this is our side of the river that leads down into the Kaipara. It\u2019s fenced. Look at the other side of the river there, which is unfenced, which is a beef farmer.\u201D The difference from one side of the river to the other was that on the dairy farm the bank wasn\u2019t collapsing into the river. The bank on the other side, which was exposed to heavy cattle\u2014I think it was cattle in that case, but pigs and deer can do the same thing; not sheep\u2014was collapsing into the river and was a major contribution of silt load into the Kaipara.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, this problem that we\u2019ve got in the Kaipara will not be fixed without the likes of those things being fenced, so we came out with some proposals for fencing. They only ever applied to cows\u2014you know, beef cattle, deer, and pigs; not sheep, which are lighter animals. The first iteration of it, I can remember the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor coming up to me and saying, \u201CHow the hell did you get that so wrong?\u201D The areas to be fenced were chosen on the basis of an average within a certificate of title, and I can remember sort of discussing with my officials and shamefacedly admitting to the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor, \u201CWell, we didn\u2019t get that right, so we\u2019ll have to do it again.\u201D, and we did it again. The second iteration was a lot, lot better, and from memory there was more than 90 percent accuracy of the mats that were produced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThe one residual problem was that we still weren\u2019t giving a proper exemption for low-impact, low-density farming where there are low stocking rates, in some high-country areas predominantly, where it\u2019s a nonsense that we try and fence them. I agree that it\u2019s a nonsense to fix them, but the answer to that is to improve the fencing regulations, not to abandon them. The problem that we have in New Zealand is more than 20 years after the clean streams accord, we\u2019ve still got recalcitrant farmers, including that one that I referred to up north near where Mark Cameron lives\u2014and this is no criticism of Mark, but it is the criticism of the people that are on the other side of that area there. The regional councils, they don\u2019t want to have to develop their own rules around this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003ENow, I know we\u2019ll hear from the other side and they\u2019ll say it should all be left to farm plans. Well, what\u2019s the regulatory underpinning for a farm plan? What\u2019s going to cause the farm plan to properly address that? What rule is going to be effectively implemented by a farm plan in the absence of any rule? Once again, what we have from the Government is \u201CTrust us; we know what we\u2019re doing.\u201D when, in actual fact, we know that 20 years after the clean streams accord we actually had some pretty serious problems, and not just in Northland. It is a particular problem in Northland where it\u2019s erosion-prone\u2014and I\u2019m not blaming the current farmers. The land was cleared 100 years ago. Then, you know, 50 years ago under Muldoon, there were incentives to clear land that should not have been cleared. I understand all of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why we\u2019re not sort of going around waving a big stick saying, \u201CFix it tomorrow.\u201D, but fix it sometime we must, otherwise the Kaipara will never be fixed and the $100 million that central government\u2019s putting in will be a complete waste of money, as will the matching money from the Auckland Council\u2014that\u2019ll be a waste of money. Some of the farmers up there who are doing the right thing will look across at their neighbours, like that farmer that took me and Jacinda Ardern and had a look over the background, and they\u2019ll say, \u201CWell, why the hell should I do it if that guy over there is not doing it?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what these fencing regulations are trying to achieve. They\u2019re not trying to be punitive, and if there is a case to improve them, improve them\u2014don\u2019t ditch them. So, Minister, please justify and explain to the committee what efforts you made to improve the regulations before you thought you\u2019d just throw the baby out with the bathwater.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u00221047d2d5cba94d98ae61b14af9804d4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221047d2d5cba94d98ae61b14af9804d4f\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I would remind the honourable member that the requirements that apply to dairying and intensive raised beef cattle will remain, so the fencing requirements there will remain. The member will also be very pleased to hear that the $100 million that he started has continued under this Government, the $10 million a year for 10 years. Yes, this Government will say that farm plans are the best way to manage on a risk basis, but, again, I will remind everyone that is listening that requirements that apply to dairy or intensive grazed beef cattle for fencing will remain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003EI would just note\u2014and the ACT member may be able to correct me on this, but I understand there\u2019s about 60 percent less dairying going on in Northland now, so some of these matters are going to be taken out of our hands, but, certainly, this Government has recognised the need to continue with the work being done in the Kaipara catchment and also to ensure that freshwater farm plans, when they are implemented, will be addressing these matters, and, again, that the requirements that apply to dairying and intensive grazed beef remain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u0022df548c0a2a6b4e9eab68272c003c8bcc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df548c0a2a6b4e9eab68272c003c8bcc\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you, Minister Simmonds, for finally bringing some common sense. Thank you to David Parker for bringing up stock exclusion\u2014I find it a fascinating subject. I\u2019m interested, former Minister Parker: you brought up the Kaipara. You\u2019re also a Minister that spoke ad nauseam, at length, about sedimentation in the Kaipara, and then increased its snapper fishery because the health of the snapper fishery was so good up there, so I find your remarks at odds with what is actually going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s employ some common sense, sir. Let\u2019s actually employ some common sense. Talking about fencing setbacks, now, former Minister Damien O\u2019Connor and I have spoken about this as part of the freshwater accord.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022371eff53d711430186066ba123838f1d\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Let\u2019s talk about what submitters you let be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdef446be05e42ea8badb1f1fc6e1e25\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: The freshwater accord\u2014let\u2019s talk about that. Fencing setbacks, five metres\u2014five metres. Practically, I ask this committee: if you\u2019re a farmer with a tributary, drain, stream, canal that drains into\u2014the Kaipara was forementioned, so let\u2019s talk about the Kaipara. How do you, practically, clean that? What does\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da1675416bb0455aae484bb5b91e16d2\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: With a digger.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3731e7571c5474f95aee1a7c96d6212\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: What boom size do you have, sir? Because there isn\u2019t a boom long enough to reach it. So, sir, you are talking about a nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ea62a10996547ad9d455bef927e6c5c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Through the Chair, please, Mr Cameron.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226806853bbec549d2a23c46eb06b1e5f8\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, Mr Chair. The former Minister for the Environment is not practically employing any common sense. There isn\u2019t a boom long enough to clean a canal that borders a buffer zone or a fencing setback area\u2014that\u2019s why former Minister David Parker got it wrong and Damien O\u2019Connor got it right. Practically, it was a nonsense. We had a flooding event, sir, because of your earlier assertions. Practically, it didn\u2019t work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EAnother point: roundwood. I was formerly a fencing contractor. I find it comedic, this gentleman just saying, \u201CMove all this fencing.\u201D Roundwood, per post: 12, 14 bucks each. To do anything in real time\u2014not sort of offer sermons, Minister Parker; actual, practical change\u2014costs us tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. Sir, you come into this House and you offer priestly sermons about what we should do in rural New Zealand. We\u2019re doing it because we don\u2019t want our livestock falling in canals or rivers or drains and drowning. They\u2019re exceedingly expensive. Why on earth\u2014and maybe the Minister for the Environment can elucidate and illuminate this a little bit better for you, sir\u2014would we not want to do that, anyway? We want to ameliorate the concerns about losing our livestock, so that\u2019s why we fence the waterways off and, by virtue, improve environmental outcomes. Everything you said, sir, is something of a factoid\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022544dc76c4e5e4c3aa011ec9dfee1df11\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Through the Chair, please, Mr Cameron.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c431d5d73fb479da6b483ad95d08564\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014nonsense. Coming back to fencing setback: practically, I believe, Damien O\u2019Connor got it right when he suggested you make some adjustments to that. We\u2019re already investing an inordinate amount of money to improve our environment and to protect our animals. We don\u2019t need to be lectured when it doesn\u2019t work, because it didn\u2019t work, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003EOne final remark: I heard you talk, in the second reading speech, sir, about how we should plough a field to alleviate sediment loss. I said this in my speech\u2014and maybe the Minister can enlighten you further\u2014we spend millions of dollars, often on mortgages. Why on earth would we cultivate in such a way that we would inherently see sediment loss, intentionally? We didn\u2019t need to be scolded by a Minister that didn\u2019t do it. We try not to do it. Can you not see the correlation between causality, sir? That\u2019s why I think this Minister\u2019s got it right. I would celebrate anything that she can do to harness some practical common sense, and I thank her for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u00229d2abc15c13445a8b7c57b9a6ee70663\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d2abc15c13445a8b7c57b9a6ee70663\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, I appreciate it. I may have got just the solution for the member here and the member here [Gestures to Hon David Parker and Mark Cameron]\u2014I\u2019ve got this, guys. I have an amendment specifically regarding winter grazing. Winter grazing is a real challenge for us. We have had a grizzly winter in Southland this season\u2014an absolute shocker. Vast volumes of water falling in the spring. There\u2019s been a terrible death toll on the animals. We\u2019ve heard terrible stories from both sheep and dairy farmers of things going very wrong and animals needing to be euthanised. There\u2019s a slink factory in Southland\u2014a slinky factory, as you like to call it\u2014where 70,000 lambs were accumulated in the space of one month at one factory, 25,000 in one week. So, likely, the death toll\u2014and this is terrible. No farmer wants to be dealing with a vast number of animals dying on their watch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIt is important to have a context of where you have a very high density of stocking in a region that frequently rains in the winter and where grass doesn\u2019t grow, you have this serious problem, as my colleague to the left also points out, of how do you feed these animals? You get this intensive winter grazing, and when it goes wrong it goes very badly wrong. You get animals up to their udders in mud, you get animals stuck, animals dying, you get calves born into mud in the wicked winter weather, and you get sheep dying in mud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e930dfe18824dec93c225847d944c06\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: This is misinformation, Steve. You\u2019re better than this, Steve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228492206b26b248cfbba032d3978f9e1d\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: Pardon? What did you say, Suze?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aafa245061440bcacc0e620e968119c\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Misinformation\u2014you\u2019re better than this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a13cd77314ae4d88acb8bdd15b96c65e\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: Come on. This is reported in the Otago Daily Times\u2014the 70,000 lambs. You don\u2019t say that that many lambs have died? Well, you better talk to the Otago Daily Times about it. I can check on those statistics if you\u2019d like, on the number of animals that have suffered in this miserable weather down South.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThe point is that it is not good for the animals. It is also not good for the fresh water. That density, that volume of excrement and waste, that muddying of the soil means the flow of nutrients and the flow of waste goes down into the freshwater systems and the siltation. All of those things are bad for the environment. I do not know how the Minister\u2014and this is the question for the Minister\u2014justifies not having stronger intensive winter grazing rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI have an amendment that proposes the minimum setback for land used for intensive winter grazing of 10 metres. We had agreement on the committee\u2014I\u2019m on the Primary Production Committee with the very noisy member opposite, Suze Redmayne, and we had an agreement on that committee that there must be permanent vegetation on the five-metre setback; the committee agreed on that. I\u2019m proposing here with this amendment that we have a minimum setback for land use for intensive winter grazing of 10 metres: \u201CAn area of land that is used on a farm must be located at least 10 m away from the bed of any river, lake, wetland, or drain (regardless of whether there is any water in it at the time).\u201D That would replace clause 26, page 17, after line 3 with that proposal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003ESchedule 2, the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management 2020: this proposed amendment is that we delete the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management 2020 Schedule 2 on page 18, line 10. Now, the purpose of that is that the national policy statement is a very important part of how we get clarity on how we look after fresh water, and how it is that we are going to deal with the challenges we face in our freshwater environment. The proposal of this amendment is to do with the coalmining, which I mentioned earlier. We must not have wetlands destroyed for the sake of coalmining. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4a5c9dbdff8465fa9354a6b28326c98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4a5c9dbdff8465fa9354a6b28326c98\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I am struggling to see how some of the members\u2019 comments have anything to do with this bill that we\u2019re debating, but I do want to make something absolutely clear: the 70,000 slink skins and 25,000 in one week that he talked about\u201470,000 over a month\u2014were absolutely nothing to do with intensive winter grazing. They were because of a bitterly cold and wet spring. The winter was not wet; it was the spring that was bitterly cold and wet, and lambs died\u00A0as\u00A0newborns in the spring. Absolutely nothing to do with intensive winter grazing. Again, the Opposition seems intent on doing a disservice to our hard-working farmers that got out in that bitterly cold and wet spring every day to try and save as many lambs as they could.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00222cb922f665b740bc8cf857d2d03e9fb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cb922f665b740bc8cf857d2d03e9fb6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The House is suspended. This debate is suspended. The House will resume at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.57 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a36c3e1a8c754b0fb681981386159d67\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the committee is resumed on the Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. When we suspended for the dinner break, we were debating Part 2, clauses 28 to 30, \u201COther matters\u201D and Schedule 2. Once again, the question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u00220e0672999bd046bc82fb83dc7298710d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e0672999bd046bc82fb83dc7298710d\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairman, look, thank you very much. It\u2019s the first opportunity I\u2019ve had to speak on this bill. This is the Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. It actually goes beyond fresh water, but I\u2019ll summarise it this way: be careful what you ask for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere have been a number of so-called farmers\u2019 champions over the other side of the House there, going on about how this is going to be nirvana and remove all\u2014in fact, remove Government actors. They\u2019ve got a petition: get Wellington out of farming. Well, in terms of fresh water, some might think there are some changes that can be made. In fact, we made some changes. We could take Wellington out of farming, biosecurity, food safety. Where would that leave the biggest export-generating sector of our country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to fresh water, some will appreciate that, actually, water is the source of life. It\u2019s certainly been the source of growth across agriculture through irrigation but also the ongoing reliable supply of water for farming systems and horticultural systems up and down the country. We\u2019ve taken it for granted, and for a number of years now we\u2019ve invested in irrigation. That\u2019s the input side of it, knowing that water is really important and so get more, store it, and put it into the farming systems and generate more revenue. That\u2019s great. Then we\u2019ve also learnt that there\u2019s an output side of it as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThis issue is about the output side of it, for the most part, although some of the consents that will be affected or the operations that will be affected by the recent amendment that the Minister has brought in are both around inputs and outputs. But be careful what you ask for. The people on that side of the House, the bill itself, and the amendments trying to pave the way for easy farming will lead to a bigger challenge in the future as the reality of our farming systems bites home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been talk about the wonderful things that farmers do. In fact, it\u2019s incredible, the things that we have learnt. As a farmer, I put effluent straight into the local stream. Thankfully, that doesn\u2019t occur any more. We\u2019ve learnt a lot. People used to chop the tails off cows to stop manure being flicked in their face in a herringbone shed. We don\u2019t do that any more. We have a better level of understanding around animal welfare and of the environmental impacts of our farming systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EOf course, this Government set out to have one quick win. In fact, previous Cabinet decisions have influenced this proposal, including an invitation to the Minister of Agriculture to provide papers on a quick win. If you read the regulatory impact statement (RIS) here, it is indeed very, very revealing. This coalition Government is good at quick fixes, quick wins, at trying to appease the people who were barking for\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d5fe92bdd83473d89ac6c115a715798\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: If I could just help the member to link it to Part\u00A02.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225828578cd4da49268632d93024eea934\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s fresh water and other matters, and it goes to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022033722e3926a4989b7c1d711707dee39\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: But specifically to Part 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228dc8150715d1434b92ddae3757e46347\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014stock exclusion and other things. I\u2019m referring to the RIS, if I can. Mr Chairman, I appreciate your guidance on this, but the RIS has not been referred to and it\u2019s a critical part of every part of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019m saying is that the proposals to take away some of these regulations\u2014and the previous Minister sitting in the chair said, \u201COh, you know, we\u2019ve got some reassurances around some of the basic components of this.\u201D, even though we\u2019re taking away guidance for councils on what they should do, leaving the time lines way out into the never-never, if some of the members on the other side get their way. That is clear guidance for councils as to how we can better manage the output side of fresh water.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EIn Government, we had some proposals, and in spite of all the best intentions of the vast majority of farmers, there are some who will not abide by clear guidance or, indeed, just doing the right thing. Most of the laws and the regulations in this House are designed to protect us from the minority of people who want to do the wrong thing or who don\u2019t want to do the right thing, to protect us from them or the environment from them. It is really important that we understand. Take the issue of bobby calves. I\u2019ve heard a lot of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022804e96003f6d496fbe63896c54283755\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Relevance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf190860be6461887ace826b6f2eb8e\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yeah, a lot of things have been said about, as I say, the great work the vast majority of farmers do. There was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022821390faacf24e239fc167c6f8e97d2f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u002266614c0c7c554bd7b3d2edf4bb361c8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266614c0c7c554bd7b3d2edf4bb361c8d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairman, before the break, I had a response from Mark Cameron addressed to the Minister in the chair about what he said was the obvious case for no need for fencing, which is the fencing regulations repealed by this provision in Part 2. At the moment, we\u2019ve got regulations that say, in some situations, farmers have to fence off their waterways. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EHe talked about the Kaipara and said there\u2019s no problem with the Kaipara because the fish limit for snapper on the western side of the North Island has been increased. Well, that\u2019s true, but it\u2019s not because of the Kaipara. It\u2019s true because the fishing pressure had been reduced on those fish by a cut to quota because they were being over-fished and they bounced back, so it\u2019s a red herring, to mix my fish. But he also\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf2afe7ba5b40a2b7359178ba86e347\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Well done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a79697b02e5346e3ad0c22947e19007d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014didn\u2019t address the issue. I saw some members of the National Party nodding about the problem that they\u2019ve got in the North for some sheep and beef farmers who really do have unacceptable practices close to waterways, that are collapsing the banks of these very silt-laden landscapes into the river, which is ending up in the estuary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EThen we heard from that same member saying, \u201CWell, we ought to be just enabling all of the existing farm plans produced by the likes of Beef \u002B Lamb New Zealand to be used, rather than having some other form of farm plan.\u201D Now, the last Government actually agreed that we should be facilitating the transition of those plans into the farm planning system so that farmers didn\u2019t have to do it more than once, but it did become evident that there are some farm plans that were inadequate. They\u2019d have to be, if they were going to be a substitute for regulation, because if a farm plan is going to substitute for an environmental regulation which maintains a baseline, they do have to be robust and they have to cover off the right matters and they\u2019ve got to cover all of the required farmers and there has to be some conditionality around using them. Otherwise, they can buy those same farmers who have ignored the need to fence those waterways that have evidently needed fencing for more than a decade, probably two decades\u2014there has to be something in the system to give them teeth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI found the answers that Mark Cameron, who chaired the Primary Production Committee\u2014he didn\u2019t address also the issue of the undertaking that he\u2019d given submitters that a certain provision wasn\u2019t going to be in the bill, but that is in the bill. Sadly, we haven\u2019t heard from either the Minister of Agriculture or from him in respect of that promise that he made at select committee to submitters that has now been broken. Having not heard from the Minister to explain how it is that we can be assured about the likes of those farms that myself and the former Prime Minister visited in Northland, where the banks are crumbling into the river, which are adding to these enormous sediment loads in the Kaipara Harbour, how can we be sure that once these fencing regulations disappear, after two decades of inaction since the Dairying and Clean Streams Accord was adopted by the dairy industry so well\u2014and I compliment them on it\u2014the beef industry is not going to continue what they\u2019ve been doing for the last 20 years, which is ignoring, in some cases, their environmental responsibilities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EAs the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor said, it\u2019s not all farmers. We\u2019re not saying this is all farmers, but there does seem to be a reaction that whenever there\u2019s an environmental bottom line proposed for the rural sector, the sector clubs together. It\u2019s almost like they\u2019re insulted that one of their kind will be picked out and criticised for poor performance, but, sadly, the truth is some performance has been inadequate. There are some historical reasons for that that are forgivable, but there does need to be an improvement in practice, and without a push along, some of these people, the recalcitrants\u2014and that\u2019s the term that has been used by leaders from both Beef \u002B Lamb New Zealand and the dairy sector at times, so they want the recalcitrants pushed along. How can we be sure, in the absence of any enforceable rule, that they will be pushed along? My understanding is that if this legislation goes through, we don\u2019t have farm plans, and we won\u2019t have fencing regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u002282479fcd17204b4e92d3a6e128da6ec3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282479fcd17204b4e92d3a6e128da6ec3\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I will leave it to my colleagues who understand the matters set out in Schedule 2 to discuss Schedule 2 in more detail. One of the clauses that hasn\u2019t been discussed yet when it comes to Part 2 is clauses 29 and 30, specifically when it comes to the amendment to the Ng\u0101 Rohe Moana o Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B o Ng\u0101ti Porou Act 2019.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to clause 30, this clause replaces section 31(3) with what is following. One of the things that we see in this bill is the removal of the board of inquiry, and the issue we have here is in the existing version of this particular Act. It specifies that \u201Ca proposed national policy statement that directly affects ng\u0101 rohe moana must treat the environmental covenant as a relevant matter for the purposes of section 51(1)(e) of that Act.\u201D, which is the Resource Management Act. Of course, section 51(1)(e) that is being referred to here is referring to the board of inquiry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe question I have for the Minister, first and foremost, is: when we\u2019re looking at the board of inquiry, it\u2019s made-up of a collective of people and a panel of people, but with that being removed, what mannerism and what accountability would that person, as specified in new subsection (3), have to do in order to reach that benchmark of what is considered an environmental covenant when it is no longer there? That is my first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe second question I have\u2014and this is sort of more and more curious if we\u2019re looking at the broader context of section 31 of the Ng\u0101 Rohe Moana o Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B o Ng\u0101ti Porou Act 2019\u2014is that section 31(2) refers to a board of inquiry appointed under section 14 of the Resource Management Act 1991. As we see in this proposed bill, that board will now be repealed. However, despite the fact that there is a replacement of section 31(3) with the removal of the reference to the board of inquiry, section 31(2), which specified the board of inquiry being appointed, has not been removed, as far as I know, as part of this Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EMy second question to the Minister is: does it mean that, in the context of the Ng\u0101 Rohe Moana o Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B o Ng\u0101ti Porou Act, that board of inquiry still remains, or is there another section\u2014possibly in section 1, which I may not be aware of\u2014where that particular area has been removed? It doesn\u2019t look like it\u2019s anywhere adjacent to clause 13 where sections 41 and 51 were repealed. So, yeah, that was more a point of clarification from the Minister. Under that particular Act, is section 31(3), pertaining to the board of inquiry, going to remain in that Act? Also, in terms of the newly introduced replacement section 31(3), with a person without that board of inquiry, what sort of benchmark or what sort of threshold would that person need to fulfil when it talks about how they \u201Cmust consider the environmental covenant.\u201D, when that board no longer exists and has been repealed by this Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u00225846d9a6805d4c9c842b7264a6cbb954\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225846d9a6805d4c9c842b7264a6cbb954\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG (Associate Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the members for their considered questions. I listened very carefully to the member Damien O\u2019Connor, though I couldn\u2019t actually hear a question in there, but I think he wanted to talk a little about stock exclusion. Likewise, I think the Hon David Parker wanted to talk about stock exclusion as well. He was talking about unacceptable practices near waterways, collapsing of banks, and farmers who have ignored the need to fence, and farmers are clubbing together, and they were recalcitrant, and they needed a push along, which I felt was very typical language coming from that Labour Party when it comes to the attitude towards the agricultural sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EI just want to assure those concerned members that the stock-exclusion regulations do regulate the access of livestock to waterways. We\u2019ve felt very strongly that a map of low-sloped land currently acts as a land-based trigger for requirements to exclude non-intensively grazed beef cattle and deer from water bodies. Those requirements will come into force in July next year for existing farms, but we\u2019ve always been concerned that the map and associated requirements were such that the one-size-fits-all approach that we saw in so much legislation that was passed by the previous Government would impose significant costs on those non-intensive farms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EOur view is that to address the concerns, the bill repeals those requirements, meaning the exclusion of affected stock types will instead be managed by farmers and by regional plan rules where they exist and, of course, freshwater farm plans when they are rolled out, acknowledging that the freshwater farm plans are not yet widely available, but they are intended to come very soon. The National Environment Standards for Freshwater allow for intensive winter grazing too, to occur as a permitted activity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EJust turning to the questions from the Green Party member Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan about the removal of the board of inquiry, we\u2019ve been very clear that removing the board of inquiry processes is to provide one clear default process for making and amending national directions. I think it\u2019s already been acknowledged by the previous Minister that sat here that that board of inquiry process hasn\u2019t been used in over 10 years. The member asked specifically about covenants as agreed by Ng\u0101ti Porou. The bill amends the Resource Management Act sections referenced in the Ng\u0101 Rohe Moana o Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B o Ng\u0101ti Porou Act. Clause 30 is a consequential amendment to uphold the Ng\u0101 Rohe Moana o Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B o Ng\u0101ti Porou Act. In fact, Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B agreed to this amendment, and this change will ensure that their covenant is still considered in that national direction process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u00229e6a142a33d4409897b421e91b849437\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229e6a142a33d4409897b421e91b849437\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair\u2014just a very short question for the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nicola Grigg. In the bill commentary, regarding the Ng\u0101 Rohe Moana o Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B o Ng\u0101ti Porou Act 2019, it talks about how \u201Cdepartment advisers consider that alternative process is not needed because, despite the removal\u201D, but the clarification I\u2019m looking for is: was there a reason why, then, section 31(2) of the Act isn\u2019t repealed? Does that just naturally get removed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00222e07653a061447ccb2b400172f413ba9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e07653a061447ccb2b400172f413ba9\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair\u2014sorry, there was a lot of noise there. Before the dinner break, I asked the Minister in the chair, the Hon Penny Simmonds, two questions that have not been addressed. The first one was about coal and whether the Minister appreciated the difference between coal, which is not a mineral found in our cellphones but instead is burned and produces climate change emissions\u2014not answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EThe second question was in regards to both the stock exclusion regulations and the intensive winter grazing. The comments that we\u2019ve heard since my contribution, about how farmers may do all the good things without any regulations\u2014if that is the case, and I very much like it to be the case, I ask the Minister if she would confirm to the committee that there will be monitoring and review of what happens to the environment without these regulations. And I ask if the Minister would make an undertaking to come to this House with the urgency that we\u2019ve seen today with the Amendment Paper around the Otago Regional Council, in bringing back these, or appropriate, regulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI note the Minister was just talking about the slope rules and the stock exclusion regulations\u2014of course, they also are relevant in the intensive winter grazing\u2014and I note the advice in the departmental report that \u201Cfurther degradation of freshwater quality due to stock entering water bodies could continue until plans are implemented. Smaller farms are also currently not required to have a freshwater farm plan, meaning stock may not be required to be excluded, even if there are environmental risks.\u201D The advice is that there is uncertainty and definitely the potential for more pollution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve just also seen today a new amendment that pauses the farm plans. A lot of the evidence and the submissions that went to the Primary Production Committee, regarding changing these regulations and the intensive winter grazing, was based around farm plans. They are being paused and there are no transitional arrangements. Has the Minister considered, now with the amendment around the farm plans being paused, whether or not there should be transitional arrangements around these stock exclusion regulations that relied\u2014the logic was that they were relying on these new farm plans, but now those farm plans have been paused. What work has gone into working out whether that change to farm plans requires changes to the stock exclusion regulations and some transitional arrangements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022 data-id=\u0022f89ba9c57c7b4067b1e9b97391e7d8aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4f894dc-da63-4b45-9c2a-c07b41a65e64\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f89ba9c57c7b4067b1e9b97391e7d8aa\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5138ab5101142668243f1a4156bd2f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5138ab5101142668243f1a4156bd2f6\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I really appreciate you granting the time to really, properly, go through especially the amendments that are on the Table but just the existing clauses in the bill that we are yet to get an answer from the Minister on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI want to pick up on the biodiversity aspect of this bill, particularly around the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity and the amendments that this bill proposes to that. Now, what I\u2019m interested in hearing from the Minister\u2014because one of the key aspects of it is this delay in the requirement for local authorities to actually notify any policy statement or plan changes by 31\u00A0December in 2030\u2014is the proposed date. Now, I have an amendment on the Table that would amend Schedule 2\u2014and so this is page 18, line 26 of the existing bill\u2014and it would simply replace the date 2030 with 2027. The reason I want to do this and why I would like to hear from the Minister is about whether the Minister has actually sought advice about what the actual impact on biodiversity this delay would actually have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThis is across Aotearoa, but also I\u2019d like to hear from the Minister what evidence has she actually seen to justify this delay when it comes to biodiversity outcomes; when it comes to a coherent framework and logical framework that landowners can actually use? What I\u2019m really unclear about with this is that the Government keeps purportedly offering up certainty and clarity to landowners with this delay, but what isn\u2019t clear is there are so many aspects of existing policy statements, of existing regional plans and district plans, that actually have biodiversity requirements in them that do implement the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity. How exactly is this providing clarity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI wanted to pick up particularly the area of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity that this amendment is going to add to\u2014where it adds this delay of the date\u2014and just below that talks about the timing for regional biodiversity strategies. Now, a lot of councils\u2019 regional biodiversity strategies actually rely on the identification and then protection of significant natural areas (SNAs) to be able to effectively implement these strategies and actually ensure that they are making biodiversity gains on the ground. What are the implications and how will that work for these regional biodiversity strategies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m anticipating the Minister\u2019s response\u2014because, again, we\u2019ve heard it a lot from comments tonight\u2014and this is about the sort of onerous nature of the fact that you would identify an SNA on a property. I just want to make it clear that throughout the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity and throughout all the messaging and actual information about it, it\u2019s that existing activities can continue provided they don\u2019t threaten the loss of native plants and animals. That is a baseline in the Resource Management Act that exists regardless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EThe fact that we were going to identify these significant natural areas would have provided certainty, would have provided clarity to landowners in order to actually manage them to the rules. That\u2019s what they were actually after. Going back on this in this very ad hoc, piecemeal way is not going to offer that certainty and clarity. I would really appreciate some enlightenment from the Minister of what\u2019s intended there. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u00226efe6fcf198d426c9cbada8edb34f76e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226efe6fcf198d426c9cbada8edb34f76e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG (Associate Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, members, for your questions. Yes, we can. As was announced today, the Government has announced that we will pause the roll-out of freshwater farm plans until work to improve the system is actually finalised. We see freshwater farm plans as a really important tool to support farmers to manage freshwater risks, but I think it\u2019s been widely acknowledged around the industry that the current system has been too costly and it\u2019s inarguably been not fit for purpose. We are going to continue to work with farmers and councils and other key stakeholders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EIndeed, I\u2019d encourage any members who come from regions around New Zealand to get involved and ensure that they\u2019re advocating strongly on behalf of their local farmers. You might learn a lot. But, look, we have always maintained that we believe that planning requirements need to enable more catchment-level solutions. If we don\u2019t pause the roll-out, it\u2019s patently clear that farmers in regions where the system is already live\u2014for example, Waikato\u2014would be required to submit freshwater farm plans for certification by early 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EI just want to address some of the questions raised by the Hon Rachel Brooking around the stop exclusion rules and whether or not there will be monitoring and the review of impacts on the environment. They\u2019re very pertinent questions, but I want to assure her that this bill does not affect any monitoring required under the Resource Management Act (RMA) and that the state of environmental monitoring will continue as it always has. I\u2019m sure the member will be very pleased and relieved to hear that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThe questions from the Green Party member around the National Policy Statement on Indigenous Biodiversity (NPSIB): let me just find my notes that I just wrote down very quickly, and I can\u2019t even read my own handwriting here\u2014I beg your pardon. Actually, I might take a moment\u2014oh no, beg your pardon, Mr Chair. Here we go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003ELook, it\u2019s been again widely acknowledged, not dissimilar to the farm plan roll-out, that there\u2019s been a real concern about the approach to identifying new significant natural areas (SNAs) and we\u2019ve always felt\u2014and, indeed, a lot of councils have fed back\u2014that the definition was far too broad and it captured areas with less significant native biodiversity and we felt would overly restrict land use. We\u2019ve all heard stories about farmers that would be adversely affected, and there was very little definition between what was actually in a wetland that must be preserved and what was, frankly, just a bog.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EThe bill suspends the requirements within the NPSIB for councils to identify those new SNAs for three years and it\u2019s going to extend the implementation time frames out to the end of December 2030. That\u2019s going to give time for review of all those relevant policy settings for protecting and maintaining indigenous biodiversity. I think despite what some members of Opposition parties feel, this Government is very determined to protect our native environment, so that work is actually already under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003EOther provisions within the NPSIB, like the consent pathways, will continue to apply. That\u2019s the really important point here: we\u2019re not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. In addition, the existing RMA requirements to maintain and protect indigenous biodiversity remain. I cannot emphasise enough: the existing protections remain to ensure that councils can continue to protect those significant natural areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022 data-id=\u002278f9beb61a434b289e504da5bf82d63e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002278f9beb61a434b289e504da5bf82d63e\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Very quickly, if I may, I just want to touch on some remarks by the former Minister for the Environment Rachel Brooking and pose the question, Minister, and I can present it to you because I\u2019m sure you know the answer: what do stock units look like per bovine?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m pretty sure that Damien O\u2019Connor would be the only member of this House outside a few National members who will know that it\u2019s 5.5 stock units per bovine. Minister, the question I have for you\u2014and maybe you can litigate it for the committee\u2019s illumination\u2014is: if the silence is an indictment from the left that they didn\u2019t actually know what a stock unit was, then how on earth, Minister, was a slope map requirement ever going to work as a prerequisite or a precondition for farming practices? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003ESorry, but the people on the left don\u2019t know what a stock unit is; I do. I know that it\u2019s a stocking density, and it\u2019s different per animal species. Without over-litigating the point, Rachel Brooking, if you don\u2019t know that, how on earth can you assert that we need to have slope map requirements, because every animal farmed has a different practice\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233d334559d7f47e1aed17587fdc2cad5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: If the member can direct his comments to the Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022489d736b-2629-4bc7-8d38-6319c7797a33\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224504d74ec70449ea4dc818f096730a6\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister please enlighten the committee as to what stock units would look like in terms of slope maps\u2014i.e., their removal? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022 data-id=\u002202b22345e38a4c578ffe9070d3912881\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002293272d4e-6912-4148-8b35-c9622e18b814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202b22345e38a4c578ffe9070d3912881\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG (Associate Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very happy to take a question from that member at any time, and I distinctly remember the informative education I had as a child from my own father about what exactly a stock unit was. Look, to illustrate to the committee, the approach that we\u2019re taking is based in pragmatism. It\u2019s based in practical reality. Therefore, our view has always been that regarding low-slope areas that are less intensively farmed, there should be a different approach applied than for more intensive farming practices, and I don\u2019t think I can elucidate any more clearly than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb007df9c9f846e581d00bda56d91297\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb007df9c9f846e581d00bda56d91297\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chairman, thank you very much, and I appreciate you gave me some latitude in my first speech. I\u2019ll stick to some questions for the Minister\u2014keeping in mind the fact that, actually, most of the things that we\u2019re trying to do here were laid down in 1992 by the National Government under the Resource Management Act. That was protection of the environment, protection of biodiversity\u2014making sure that we didn\u2019t degrade the water quality. All those things were laid out in 1992, and we failed to deliver in many measures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThere has been lots of speculation about the previous Government\u2019s attempts to move us forward in this area. The reality is that, without regulations, we can\u2019t protect the vast majority of farmers, good farmers, from those who don\u2019t want to do the right thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ac07ce1ab74e05bd00e95d32993c7d\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274354b2bddeb44d68670638580cc123b\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201CRubbish.\u201D, he says. That man lives with his head in the sand. I have spoken to many farmers who say we need regulations to make sure that the person who, in intensive winter grazing, has cows with mud up to their bellies, who has water running off steep areas and soil running down into the waterways\u2014they say we need regulations and clear guidance from councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EWhen we introduced the requirement for resource consents for land over 10 degrees\u2014because anything above 10 degrees erodes soil at exponential levels, relative to flat land; that is, it leaps up in the coming off. There were claims that 10,000 consents were needed and, in fact, 278 were issued. The question to the Minister, in terms of analysing that\u2014because the regulatory impact statement (RIS) says, \u201CNo recent engagement has occurred on these proposals.\u201D Can I ask the Minister: what was the analysis of that? Were they not needed, or did the vast majority of people flout the requirement to do so, to get a resource consent? That\u2019s quite a valuable piece of information. Given the fact that we\u2019ve limited information on current stakeholder and Treaty partner views\u2014in the RIS\u2014does the Minister have concerns that iwi and hap\u016B may challenge councils when they do the monitoring and fail to take action, because the regulations are not in place to ensure protection of the environment? Has the Minister or has the Government done some analysis in that area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003EThe Minister referred to the fact that monitoring will continue. Well, what happens if there\u2019s an identified failure to protect either indigenous biodiversity or water quality? Kicking the can down the road, as is being proposed by this Government, leaves councils ill-equipped to intervene. In fact, on intensive winter grazing, we had a taskforce, sparked by horrific images that went around the world of New Zealand pastoral farming systems\u2014horrific images. In fact, North Island farmers who go South sometimes have had no idea of what is normal practice in Southland. Those images went out around the world. The inability of the councils to intervene gave rise to the Government\u2019s intervention and attempt\u2014it wasn\u2019t perfect, as my colleague David Parker said\u2014to bring in clear guidance and regulations for all councils.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022471dee54-f59e-4497-b3d3-c39044ce7169\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s not one-size-fits-all\u2014and there were adjustments necessary\u2014but, ultimately, kicking this can down the road, as is being proposed here, in both intensive winter grazing and in discharge into waterways, will mean that there\u2019s likely to be a greater challenge when those standards are finally brought into place. Now, we will have national environmental standards for freshwater, but if they\u2019re not being imposed, if they\u2019re not being put in place, the degradation will just make it harder for future generations. The questions I have for the Ministers are the ones I\u2019ve asked. Has the Government considered this? What will happen? What will councils be able to do when they clearly identify failure? And what is normal good practice that the vast majority of farmers will implement but a few or maybe more will not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb8af84b83fa47dab048c7ae6e0720f1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb8af84b83fa47dab048c7ae6e0720f1\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00228e7821e5a46849e89642b02a2c835c9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e7821e5a46849e89642b02a2c835c9e\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E I would like to respond to some comments directed at me by both the Minister and the chair of the select committee. I think the Minister misunderstands my question, and I think the chair of the select committee did as well, because when I was asking about monitoring in review and transitional provisions, I was not arguing the ins and outs of carrying capacity; I was not arguing the ins and outs of slope angles. What I was saying is we have some regulations in place at the moment; they are going to be taken away. What work is being undertaken, what work will the Minister agree to and tell this House about, to determine, once those regulations are taken away, the effect that taking those regulations away has on the environment? I\u2019m not asking about general monitoring in review provisions in the Resource Management Act. The Resource Management Act is very poor at monitoring and review and enforcement and prosecution, which is why we changed it with the Natural and Built Environment Act, which, of course, this Government has repealed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EMy question is\u2014there\u2019s a whole lot of regulation being removed\u2014what work will this Government undertake to see the effects, to measure the effects, to analyse the effects of the removal of those regulations? If that work is undertaken and if it demonstrates that there are worse environmental impacts, will the Government then undertake to put back the appropriate regulations with the appropriate carrying capacity and the appropriate slope angles to ensure that the environment does not suffer any further degradation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m also interested in the Minister\u2019s response to questions from my colleagues about indigenous biodiversity, where the Minister referred to a bog. I\u2019m wondering what a bog is and if by using the term \u201Cbog\u201D she means that there is no indigenous biodiversity in there. If she could clarify that point, that would be useful, because over the years many people have called wetlands full of indigenous biodiversity \u201Cswamps\u201D, and I\u2019m sure some people have referred to them as bogs as well. The point of this National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity and the identification of areas of indigenous biodiversity is to do just that: to look in the bog or the swamp or the wetland and to see what\u2019s there, because often our indigenous biodiversity is small, and people who are not ecologists might not recognise the life that is within them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EIf she could clarify what she means by a bog\u2014if she doesn\u2019t mean it as a wholly pejorative statement but was just referring to the fact that there are some areas that may have no indigenous biodiversity or very low indigenous biodiversity values, and that\u2019s what she meant by bog\u2014that would be helpful. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u00221d2b5952cc114b969998e791eab29861\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d2b5952cc114b969998e791eab29861\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3e2893d63c84c15a2c140a374783434\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3e2893d63c84c15a2c140a374783434\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. I\u2019m informed that the member who gave the closing motion has already taken a call in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4a8d8bc65074c6ab682e9058a928f02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4a8d8bc65074c6ab682e9058a928f02\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: He can take more than one call in committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc200d82eb9449e98c0002fc10df52a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a503e324-3a0b-4efd-bf44-ec6740ec9a62\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc200d82eb9449e98c0002fc10df52a7\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Junior Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E For a closing motion, Mr Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00220f7244cdbdd1481fa592d4c9ed276147\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f7244cdbdd1481fa592d4c9ed276147\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s the advice I\u2019ve received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228645e0622b874b208c97113377a1a823\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002231eef49d58ec45fba09d5268bdb0568e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Part 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022eeaee0cd031b445eb00163de9305a365\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eeaee0cd031b445eb00163de9305a365\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Schedule 1 set out on Amendment Papers 127 and 128 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00229807d8eaffec49dca3964273e38f54b0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c57bb5fed45e4c4f8561f5ef39b7cb6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c57bb5fed45e4c4f8561f5ef39b7cb6c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022bbd23c74d47747baabf16b4b7b8f69fd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022637c314054fa47169bd680522cdf1ebd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022637c314054fa47169bd680522cdf1ebd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The tabled amendments to Schedule 1 in the name of the Hon Rachel Brooking are out of order as being in the same substance as an amendment previously not agreed to\u2014that is Steve Abel\u2019s amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002206614f72283349b7988a97687ea4331f\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 1 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00227c274dc9c421405795a5b5147de09352\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c274dc9c421405795a5b5147de09352\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Schedule 2 set out on Amendment Paper 127 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cd9a0fef15bc4545831bc7c7d9f983dc\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00225fc863cb108e4341a85113578556bf04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fc863cb108e4341a85113578556bf04\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 Resource Management (National Environment Standards for Freshwater) Regulations 2020 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022051e8282be654c229bc6852d7d8800f6\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00228d64edbfda5d4c2193c8a157a1ab529e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d64edbfda5d4c2193c8a157a1ab529e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 Resource Management (National Environment Standards for Freshwater) Regulations 2020 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220c8e859c64804114bd2cfb3d06a211a0\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1ecaec9f0e34dcfaf40df4d5d1f8690\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1ecaec9f0e34dcfaf40df4d5d1f8690\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 Resource Management (Stock Exclusion) Regulations be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e8549283730f46219a411cafab29431a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022960d853e00d442519f8096bb3797096c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022960d853e00d442519f8096bb3797096c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 Resource Management (Infringement Offences) Regulations 1999 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00224ac32776f92b40528011c2db0b5b3c30\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00228f427a58efe74dcca2c0858f530aca22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f427a58efe74dcca2c0858f530aca22\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that Steve Abel\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management 2020 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cbf8c46ae14b47d1950ed23ce9cd04c8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022387006cf76ff469fa62494db66127d25\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022387006cf76ff469fa62494db66127d25\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The tabled amendment to Schedule 2 National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management 2020 in the name of the Hon Rachel Brooking is out of order as being the same in substance as an amendment previously not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003EThe question is that Lan Pham\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00228932872552374638892768c3650550aa\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c80758e5679c40e5aa7d9bee7c30efd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c80758e5679c40e5aa7d9bee7c30efd3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Hon Rachel Brooking\u2019s tabled amendment to Schedule 2 National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity 2023 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022409af66c429b4a888dcd1d6fdfe55a02\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendment be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c84575d54fab4fc98feab92c5300c797\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That Schedule 2 as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESchedule 2 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e5e252ba76e249158c28767a21b337ca\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 3 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022 data-id=\u00223510bdb8d1934898a0f7913f4c3f56a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223510bdb8d1934898a0f7913f4c3f56a5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to our final debate, clauses 1 to 3. This is the debate on clauses 1 to 3\u2014\u201CTitle\u201D, \u201CCommencement\u201D, and \u201CPrincipal Act\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022 data-id=\u00225a30ed5a5331401abd49a5a964929834\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a30ed5a5331401abd49a5a964929834\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. First of all, I\u2019d like to comment on clause 2, which is the commencement clause, which says, \u201Cthe day after\u201D Royal assent. There is some irony to that, given that we\u2019ve just passed an Amendment Paper that has a retrospective clause in it so that, in fact, the commencement for that retrospective clause will be today. Perhaps there should be some amendment to clause 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EFocusing on the title in clause 1, the Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, well, there certainly are a number of other matters here. We\u2019ve spoken today in this debate about the specificity of that Amendment Paper having a retrospective effect for today, and that is because the Otago Regional Council is going to meet tomorrow. Of course, this law won\u2019t have commenced by tomorrow, because it needs to have a third reading, which is not going to happen tonight, and then, of course, it needs Royal assent\u2014also not going to happen tonight. In fact, the Otago Regional Council can go ahead with its meeting tomorrow. I think a more reflective title clause now\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d5de74a32e04209a0b00eee5be56603\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: And they should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252702705e5a945519fe778b588239f68\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: My colleague David Parker is saying the Otago Regional Council should go ahead with that meeting tomorrow, because they need to follow the law as it is, and the Resource Management Act requires them to act at pace. Perhaps this title should be the \u201CResource Management (Specific Amendments to Stop Democracy in the Otago Regional Council and to Put Up Rates) Amendment Bill\u201D, because this is a very inefficient process that the Minister is inserting, and it goes just against so much work that people have done on that plan to be notified tomorrow\u2014and I hope it still is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EOf course, the Minister has told us that a new national policy statement for freshwater is coming and that it would be inefficient to change anything until that happens in another 18 or 24 months, but that\u2019s such a spurious argument, because of course consenting becomes much more efficient once you have a plan in place, because then the plan tells you if things are permitted or not permitted and you don\u2019t have to go up the chain to national documents and to the purpose of the Act to make those decisions. It is the most efficient thing to have those plans in place. It\u2019s the most efficient thing for the Otago Regional Council to notify that plan tomorrow, but the Minister can only think that it will be inefficient, because her changes to that national policy statement on freshwater are going to allow for increased pollution. Another suggestion for the title would be the \u201CResource Management (Increase Pollution) Amendment Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen the Primary Production Committee say to one submitter, \u201CNo, don\u2019t talk to us about section 107; that\u2019s not in scope. Of course it\u2019s not in scope. Why would that be in scope? It\u2019s not in the bill as introduced to Parliament.\u201D but then say to other submitters who have a financial interest in section 107 changing, \u201CNo, no, tell us whatever you like about this and we\u2019ll listen to you closely and we\u2019ll just slot it in the select committee report. We won\u2019t have the select committee analyse what this change means.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227535d92-0798-4e04-be80-9e91b53610e2\u0022\u003EI have here the High Court decision. I didn\u2019t get to talk about it in Part 1, but you can see that it\u2019s a very large decision, likely to be appealed\u2014doesn\u2019t talk about whether or not the existing exceptional circumstances in 107 has been used or not. Some parties don\u2019t get to submit on it and other parties do. This is a disgrace to our process, so a further title suggestion would be the \u201CResource Management (Skip Due Process Again and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u201D\u2014that would be better. The \u201CResource Management (Override the Otago Regional Council\u2019s Democratic Processes and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u201D\u2014again. Or perhaps it could mention bogs, which one of the other Ministers is so interested in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022 data-id=\u0022c56a230c38ad45e18644f7d4641e8f52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c56a230c38ad45e18644f7d4641e8f52\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I do support those names from my colleague Rachel Brooking, but I want to remind the committee of a moment of extraordinary candour on the part of Minister Bishop when he first spoke to this bill. He very honestly described it as quick and dirty\u2014quick and dirty\u2014and we can\u2019t do better than that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EI mean, we can take the Minister\u2019s own characterisation of this bill and we can say that it very well describes what this bill does, because if anyone has had a look at intensive winter grazing, it\u2019s pretty correct to describe it as dirty. It\u2019s mud farming, which is what it could well be called, and this is a bill for facilitating that sort of mud farming, among other things, so it\u2019s certainly dirty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EIf we were to have a look at the dirtiest fossil fuel available to us, it\u2019s coal, and this is legislation which facilitates the mining of coal through the destruction of wetlands. So there it is: the dirtiest fossil fuel\u2014quick and dirty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EA truncated process\u2014another truncated process\u2014from this Government. Who would have thought? Who needs a full-sized select committee when you can have a short select committee, or no select committee at all? It has been quick\u2014it has certainly been quick\u2014and what\u2019s the consequence of having large-scale intensification of farming, nitrate leaching, and all those things, and sediment getting into waterways? It\u2019s dirty water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWhat is the source of our drinking water? They\u2019re getting rid of Te Mana o te Wai, the hierarchy of obligations, where even the principle that drinking water should be protected as a greater priority than industrial uses of water\u2014no, they\u2019re getting rid of that. Just to be clear, folks, your drinking water is now no longer\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222de25f135a6f48249486b81fc37aeb95\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: What number is it\u2014what number in the hierarchy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd3e12e12829404a8e89178e04f5bb39\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: It was number two in the hierarchy, and now there\u2019s no hierarchy, so drinking water will not be prioritised\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9e7f69406544835b5ad2ed30d3b86f7\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: So it could be number one now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d54910b03e704ecd94740ad6e4fbc2a2\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014over industrial uses of water, and do you know what happens? Well, listen, I\u2019m happy to put forward an amendment to make drinking water the number one priority over industrial uses, but I\u2019m sure that the Government wouldn\u2019t support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EWhat happens when you don\u2019t treat drinking water as a priority? That is the reason the hierarchy was created, and it was created after the Havelock North event\u2014the Havelock North event. To understand, Mr Meager, why protecting water and the health of fresh water should be first is that that is actually the way that you protect drinking water, because the source of our drinking water is rivers, lakes, and aquifers. If you do not protect that source water, you end up with contaminated drinking water. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why we\u2019ve got outrageous levels of rising nitrate in Canterbury\u2014down your neck of the woods, Mr Meager. Perhaps you should take some care for the health of the water that your people are drinking, because the most exposed to nitrate-contaminated water are rural people on private bores. They\u2019re the people who get exposed\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef094bb1-be4f-48b8-bb53-52ce955a1c2d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfed2af728f04f6d8367216d0eb45f52\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: How good is the drinking water in Auckland? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242657504e23e49e0ad85d844823e237a\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to nitrate-contaminated drinking water. The drinking water in Auckland is fantastic because we\u2019re drinking rainwater. We\u2019re not drinking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e34a8ee8178345b0b0c8c5dc547aaa00\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: If I could bring back the member\u2019s attention to clauses 1, 2, and 3, that\u2019d be good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b6460229d994fddac59c2fdc7819146\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: Quick and dirty\u2014quick and dirty. I\u2019m proposing that we call this bill the \u201CResource Management (Freshwater)\u201D\u2014no, I\u2019m not. \u201CThis Act is the Resource Management (Quick and Dirty) Amendment Act\u201D is the suggestion we have for it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e29c400e-467a-4398-818d-270ef48b80cf\u0022\u003EThe final dirty part of this is the unprincipled, retrospective shutdown of democracy in Otago. It is dirty politics on toast. This is a Government that is very happy to override local decision-making. It has no care for the principle of localism, for having decisions being made there. I propose that this bill rightly be called: \u201CThis Act is the Resource Management (Quick and Dirty) Amendment Act 2024.\u201D Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022 data-id=\u00222c76fb0ff9cc43b1af37d86a0a60ffd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c76fb0ff9cc43b1af37d86a0a60ffd5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I just rise to make a quick point about this bill. The first is to invite Mr Meager, who seems to be so eager to contribute, to stand and take a call. He\u2019s got plenty to say from the seats over there. If he\u2019d like to contribute to the debate, I\u2019m sure we\u2019d all like to hear it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI want to stand and propose a different name for this bill. It\u2019s a name that has been inspired by some of the discussion that\u2019s come through tonight. I propose that we call it the \u201CResource Management (Anything We Don\u2019t Like We Call a Bog) Amendment Bill\u201D. That\u2019s because, to my astonishment as I listened to the debate tonight, I heard at one stage that the Minister in the chair\u2014I\u2019m not quite sure which Minister it was\u2014had referred to wetlands as \u201Cbogs\u201D; referred to them as \u201Cbogs\u201D. Now, that type of language, I think, reveals a lot about what the Government have in mind with this bill. It says that anything they don\u2019t like they will stick with a nasty name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EWhen we talk about \u201Cwetlands\u201D, it conveys the idea that there is an ecosystem, that there are waterflows, that there is something of natural worth that is worth looking after and preserving, that it is something that counts and that matters and that needs to be taken into account when the land around it is being used; that needs to be taken into account when it comes to all sorts of matters, obviously around agriculture but also around urban development, around the development of all sorts of activities like that. Wetlands actually matter. But, if you can call them a \u201Cbog\u201D, then they don\u2019t matter. A bog is just a dirty, nasty stench. I mean, we all remember the \u201CBog of Incredible Stench\u201D from Labyrinth, the movie. [Interruption] I know\u2014there is a reason why we call things a bog; it\u2019s to say that they have little worth. In fact, this is what this bill demonstrates from this Government: they think that fresh water, that wetlands, have little worth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212d74f81-b1f7-4b51-9fb4-8f9481477192\u0022\u003EI suggest that they should at least be honest about their intentions with this bill, and I propose renaming this bill the \u201CResource Management (Anything We Don\u2019t Like We Call a Bog) Amendment Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8be5a11e1ec4bcd950e7bd899884a0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8be5a11e1ec4bcd950e7bd899884a0c\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I think I too have some choice proposals that I would like the Minister to consider in terms of the title, in clause\u00A01, but I want to first pick up what has been said before in terms of the deliberate attempt to undermine local democracy when it comes to what the Otago Regional Council is proposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI think, just, again, picking up from the previous speaker, the Hon Dr Deborah Russell, around the fact of the lack of distinction between \u201Cwetlands\u201D and \u201Cbog\u201D\u2014it is all so disingenuous. It would be so problematic and heartbreaking for the people of Dunedin, this very moment, who have just recently suffered a flood. If we were to mitigate it better through the use of wetlands, particularly in South Dunedin, maybe something like this wouldn\u2019t have been as severe during a climate change - induced extreme weather event. I think, for the Minister probably to consider this\u2014not just the Minister, but the broader Government parties\u2014the \u201CResource Management (Hate on Otago) Amendment Bill\u201D\u2014I\u00A0think that captures some of these particularly disingenuous attempts at undermining local democracy very appropriately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EHowever, one of the things we have heard as a running theme tonight, in terms of the committee stage, is the idea of what the governing parties perceive to be\u2014erroneously, I might add\u2014benefits to our rural communities and particularly to our farmers. We know for a fact that by having lower requirements, it puts our rural communities and it puts our farmers at harm\u2014not only in terms of extreme weather events that might harm them in the future or, indeed, as we see it more frequently, this very moment, but also the fact that in a lot of our trade agreements, etc., there are certain environmental obligations that we must uphold. I would ask if the Minister would consider the title \u201CResource Management (Further Harm to Farmers) Amendment Bill\u201D, because what is being proposed here absolutely will not be helping our farmers in the future. They are already under pressure and they will be under further pressure as a result of extreme weather events.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EHowever, it does not surprise me that during the committee stage, what we are hearing from the Minister is the same response, going around in circles. When the Minister couldn\u2019t respond to a particular question, we heard that level of grandstanding. This would not surprise me, coming from the Minister, who is the Minister for the Environment, that said that the balance has swung too far towards the environment. There was very little talk of environment and actual, genuine understanding of environment, our ecosystem, in that committee stage. So, finally, I would like to ask if the Minister would consider as a proposal the \u201CResource Management (Swung Too Far Towards the Environment) Amendment Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u00222be3fc8f19774c65a9553143d93b196e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222be3fc8f19774c65a9553143d93b196e\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I would like to propose that this be called the \u201CKamikaze Bill\u201D because of the style of intervention from this Minister. I do have some serious questions\u2014[Interruption] Great to see the other side so enthusiastic about it. The reason that I believe that it should be called the \u201CKamikaze Bill\u201D is because of the roughshod riding over local democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EI want to speak to clause 3 and ask some questions around the commencement date, picking up off points made by my colleague the Hon Rachel Brooking. As far as I am aware now, the vote that was due to take place tomorrow is no longer on the agenda of the Otago Regional Council. I do have some questions around that because it seems that the Government has not relied on urgency for the passing of this very eleventh-hour bill, and so my first question to the Minister is: was she expecting the vote to be taken off the agenda tomorrow? Did she have any communications with any of the councillors at the Otago Regional Council over the last week\u2014so from last Sunday through to today\u2014regarding any matters relating to this bill or the agenda? Would she consider communicating with the council and encouraging them to put the vote back on to the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EMy next question is: if the council were listening to this and decided, realising now that they could still proceed with the vote, would the Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bf71a65e-c9f0-4856-902f-1a15c4274e94\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230fd2b3712304e1eb78e2eac8fec75ca\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not question time. We\u2019re talking about the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695990805cd14ee6a5237166653f11f0\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but this is the purpose of this: would the Minister consider, then, asking the Leader of the House to put the House into urgency to pass the bill tonight if she thought there was a chance that the councillors\u2014particularly those who are in favour of notifying\u2014decided to get this vote on to the agenda tomorrow? Those are my questions and I do hope she takes particular care in answering the questions regarding communications with councillors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EAs she is well aware, I do have a number of Official Information Act requests in and Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act requests. I would also like to ask the Minister, since she is in the chair, just to save me a bit of time having to wait for those, whether she has had any direct text messages or other communications on this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e5afc2ae1c6489885e029a36af1d98d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Can we focus on the title and commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0ae32cd50bd4c348f92646555169d6d\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014from the Hon Shane Jones; just so I can make sure that the information that comes back through the official information channels is correct. I\u2019d be very grateful for the Minister\u2019s responses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022 data-id=\u0022641d7702d7ab4132b3b61ac741480c17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d2995873-613f-4202-a773-5ea2d57cc953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022641d7702d7ab4132b3b61ac741480c17\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for the Environment):\u003C/span\u003E I can confirm to the member that just before lunchtime today, I rang the chair of the Otago Regional Council and informed her, as a matter of courtesy, that this bill was coming to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdcb6bd8b7114d49a2f86aa1f4185be5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdcb6bd8b7114d49a2f86aa1f4185be5\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E There are some deep ironies in this, aren\u2019t there? It\u2019s not so long ago that we had an election on three waters where the now Government, then in Opposition, was complaining about centralisation of these issues and how these issues were going to be taken off local government and regional councils and handed to a water regulator and a centralised provider of services. And, now, this bill, rather than actually upholding the principles of resource management, which do also include economic outcomes, which would have been considered by hearings on the Otago regional water plan had it been notified\u2014or if it is notified; and maybe it will still be notified. I hope it will be. Even if this is passed, it could be notified and then just sit in abeyance because it wouldn\u2019t be able to be progressed. Essentially, this is about centralisation. It\u2019s not about localism. It\u2019s not about applying the principles of the Resource Management Act. It\u2019s about subverting them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003EI would suggest that a better title for this, without being loaded, would just be \u201CCentralisation\u201D, the \u201CResource Management (Centralisation) Amendment Bill\u201D, because that\u2019s what\u2019s going on. The power of regional councils to take their own decisions against the background where we have had a plan that is in breach of the Resource Management Act for over a decade is something that will not go down well in Otago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022023487c031b1454bbe0a432dfc40511e\u0022\u003EMiles Anderson\u003C/span\u003E: It will go well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e18f63ee33d471c8b19ba2c8aa2fa2f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it might go down with some of your farming constituents, but the majority of people in Otago know that the industries, like tourism\u2014the people\u2019s own regard for the quality of their waterways, and the Otago Regional Council, which I know is on the periphery of your electorate, and you seem to prefer the interests of the area that you live in, which is not in the Otago Regional Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3d6aa544f234300acd3d648f50ac7c6\u0022\u003EMiles Anderson\u003C/span\u003E: I think you are just making things up there, Mr Parker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022505e1be0c8de41de9460f3e87f60c43f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Do you think so? Well, you know, I think it is a tragedy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d42e8cf-544e-415d-892b-f4ef8014d80f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221284fdaa36264afeb42ae4145d2e6c88\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Can you keep your comments to the Chair, and if you folks want to have a conversation, go outside in the hallway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f5d71749-ae91-4af7-b2bd-77260398912a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9f91b34ead84f0cb5c7f4d71bb313a8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, thank you, Mr Chair. I would suggest that this would be better to turned into \u201CCentralise\u201D\u2014I also lament the fact that this is going to have retrospective effect, even though the commencement clause pretends that it comes into effect on the commencement date. Its application is then retrospective even if that is the commencement date. I would suggest that this is not well described as the Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7835f9d16d3470295af4bd1e9d9ec36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d64de4c1-ef68-477e-9c50-db5cbdf99404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7835f9d16d3470295af4bd1e9d9ec36\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4cff336fcde4d3aafc3c07b94385133\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4cff336fcde4d3aafc3c07b94385133\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I am going to talk directly about the title and commencement. I think the commencement date is really wrong. I think it\u2019s wrong in that it is having this retrospective effect on councils, and particularly Otago Regional Council. I will leave that there; that\u2019s been stated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI have an amendment on the Table about a change to the title of this Act. I would like to call it the \u201CResource Management (Delay and Degrade) Amendment Act 2024\u201D. I want to do this because, you know, we used to have clean, healthy waterways across Aotearoa. That is a fact. I think, no matter where we are in this Chamber, we can all acknowledge that in our lifetimes, that\u2019s changed\u2014it\u2019s certainly changed in my lifetime. That\u2019s changed, unfortunately for the worse, and it\u2019s changed in a way that has polluted our freshwater environments not only for ourselves but for our kids and grandkids. That\u2019s something that, again, I know none of us across the Chamber actually want to leave as our legacy, actually want to leave for our kids and grandkids to pick up the mess.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, the problem with that is that to actually change that tide and to turn around that overall decline in our freshwater environments, we actually need to change our actions. Look, there\u2019s a lot of, you know, critique about the way things have been done. No one and no effort has been perfect in any of this, but we really do need to change things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EI have had the privilege of working really closely with farmers across Southland, Otago, and Canterbury over a decade and a half, and farmers know this as well\u2014they do. What\u2019s really unfortunate is when bills like this turn that tide in a really, really unhelpful way, because we know that the future of Aotearoa, and actually the future of a thriving primary sector, is with strong rules and limits that work with our communities, that actually enable and support them to make the changes that we so desperately need now. Now, things like this are not helping us do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EWhy I\u2019m talking about this \u201CDelay and Degrade\u201D title is because the elements in this bill consistently delay and degrade. We\u2019ve got the delay of the identification and protection of significant natural areas. This delay will see less biodiversity protected and restored, and more indigenous significant ecology degraded and destroyed. Now, this isn\u2019t necessarily purposeful; this comes about when\u2014just the example we\u2019ve been talking about\u2014someone sees an area as a bog and thinks they can do activities to it, when actually it was a thriving wetland, it was a significant wetland, because we don\u2019t have many of them left. These are the issues. This is exactly what the identification of significant natural areas was meant to address so that landowners knew very clearly where on their properties these significant natural areas were. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got the delay in the farm plan roll-out. We\u2019ve got the degradation in terms of destroying wetlands and significant natural areas to allow for coalmining. We\u2019ve got the removal of stock exclusion and intensive winter grazing regulations, and of course this removal of section 107, meaning that we\u2019re risking setting inadequate conditions to actually meaningly improve the state of our already significantly degraded water bodies and protect aquatic life from significant adverse effects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002246269786-ecb4-40e2-972a-e287c495bdec\u0022\u003ENow, the cherry on top with all of this, or perhaps the democracy at the bottom of the pole, is this democratic override. This Government can\u2019t keep saying they\u2019re about localism and then put through bills like this which not only directly override it but leave our environment in a much worse state.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u00224a13483e07af43b382ae25926dd718a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a13483e07af43b382ae25926dd718a9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I call Ingrid Leary. I\u2019ll just remind members, I have been watching this debate and I\u2019ll be looking for new material.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022 data-id=\u0022122d0cf947c941f8a62730ff4aaf0144\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022122d0cf947c941f8a62730ff4aaf0144\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Absolutely. The reason I\u2019m standing is to thank the Minister in the chair, the Hon Penny Simmonds, for her response to my last question, and, in a back and forth exchange, ask some more questions around the conversation that she said she had with the chair of the Otago Regional Council (ORC) today. This is relevant because this amendment did not go through a select committee process; it was dropped on the Table this morning. It is due to pass tomorrow, the same day that the vote would have taken place\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241763a658104fbdb1b2e6cb5a752e5b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And still can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280673fab78a14a5b8939f713a2303b64\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and still could, except that it has been taken off the agenda. I think there\u2019s a real public interest in understanding the level of influence this Government has had, and the Minister in particular, in getting the agenda item taken off the agenda and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c5da619af5145ae8845caaa0ba86aef\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: In how it relates to the title and commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba87ee7f3e4d489893c30d8987768439\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014her justification. This relates to the commencement, Mr Chair, because the commencement is, effectively, going to be retrospective, as has been alluded to by my colleagues\u2014that\u2019s in clause 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EMy specific questions to the Minister are: when she did ring the chair today, how would she characterise the conversation? What I\u2019m seeking to find out here is: did she direct the chair of the ORC to take the item off the agenda, or did she suggest it, or what was the nature of the conversation? Also, in her view, what authority or appropriateness did she rely on to be able to reach out unilaterally and directly to the chair of a democratically elected council to have that conversation that resulted in that action? That\u2019s one suite of questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EMy second suite of questions is\u2014she did mention this particular conversation; I didn\u2019t hear answers regarding other conversations dating back to last Sunday. This is all relevant to the commencement date, because the commencement is going to be retrospective\u2014or\u00A0not, if this item ends up on the agenda tomorrow, which is looking increasingly unlikely. I would like to hear a confirmation from the Minister that she had no other conversations, text messages, or digital communications or letters with any other elected member of the Otago Regional Council or any of its staff or contractors since last Sunday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296f5f6b7-c116-477e-88a9-ea17aa616886\u0022\u003EMy last question is: did she receive any of those communications, as I\u2019ve described, from any Minister of her Government, requiring her, directing, or suggesting to her that she take the course of action that she has taken today in terms of communicating with the Otago Regional Council? I will just put the Minister on notice that I will be doing Official Information Act requests on this. I would just like to use the opportunity of having time in the House to get these answers more quickly, given that there\u2019s huge public interest in this, in the whole of the lower South.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022 data-id=\u0022b189bb168cf54f2f9ee1795f900ed946\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f4833d76-15d7-484b-8e84-94c4aea8a510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b189bb168cf54f2f9ee1795f900ed946\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f335f48bafd54920a4377281bf916980\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022062a9cfd164f465cb88b9d5ed4c11e14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022062a9cfd164f465cb88b9d5ed4c11e14\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The tabled amendments to clause 1 in the names of Steve Abel and Lan Pham are out of order as not being an objective description of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f7de5077bfd441ce985d98866ad20714\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 1 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022a6b6cce7309f4356aa853b15075de784\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 2 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022db651b20e7b04d51a8b03f40e770cf7a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clause 3 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 3 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000715\u0022\u003EBill to be reported with amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b68d8ecd83bf46808b43c415f615e2db\u0022\u003EContracts of Insurance Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b03ff804932a4b62950e4fa79de7ff43\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223233ccef709145d9bbadea9a40951a79\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022b31efe90919143ffa408aa378fb8a063\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b31efe90919143ffa408aa378fb8a063\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Contracts of Insurance Bill. We come first to the debate on Part 1. This is the debate on clauses 3 to 9, \u201CPreliminary provisions\u201D, and Schedule 1. The question is that Part 1 stand\u00A0part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00229132119e99f74a49ac03994a11a817b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229132119e99f74a49ac03994a11a817b4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m very honoured to get this call in front of my colleague Arena Williams, who, I know, has a lot to say on this matter. I have a number of Amendment Papers on the Table, as does my colleague Arena Williams and others in the Chamber. What I propose is to work through them pretty methodically, and, essentially, clause by clause. I must say\u2014and I don\u2019t intend to take my full call when we speak about this\u2014the first thing I want to talk about is the purpose clause, that is to say clause 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EWhilst the purpose is set out there\u2014fine, in that kind of fine sort of way that the National Party does in terms of saying that we have an efficient insurance sector\u2014what it doesn\u2019t actually do is reflect the big improvements of this bill for consumers. My Amendment Paper, which is on the Table, suggests the insertion of a new subclause 3(c). I know that the Minister\u2019s been busy today, but I\u2019m hopeful that he will take every single one of these Amendment Papers with the gravity and seriousness that they deserve, because every one of them is a genuine improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThis suggestion is that we insert a purpose which actually reflects the important consumer interest in this bill, because this bill, as we will see later, carves off consumer insurance contracts and arrangements and makes special provision for them in a number of respects\u2014some of them bear scrutiny as well. What we do need is a recognition that one of the purposes of this bill is to do exactly that. My suggested wording is that it\u2019s a purpose of this bill \u201Cto protect the interests of consumers under insurance contracts when they are entered into, throughout their duration, and in the claims management and settlement process.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, the Minister might want to put his own Amendment Paper in which changes that wording or perhaps even curtails it\u2014it wouldn\u2019t surprise me\u2014but the overriding theme is that this bill is, in a large part, about protecting consumers\u2019 interests. I do think, though, it is important to recognise that that protection isn\u2019t just in the process of entering into the insurance contract, but also what you might call the claims management process where the insurer has to accept or reject a claim. For consumers, that\u2019s a critical part of the insurance contract process. Also, the kind of claims management\u2014that is to say the settlement aspect of the claim that the insurer comes to, in a timely manner\u2014and I\u2019ve seen the work the Minister\u2019s done on reasonable time; different from the work that other Ministers have done, but still progress nevertheless\u2014that\u2019s also an important part of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019d be interested in the Minister\u2019s comments because he did have a good bill\u2014a draft bill\u2014earlier, and a member\u2019s bill in this House which still lies on the Order Paper that, in fact, had a purpose clause that didn\u2019t look a million miles from that. I\u2019m wondering why he got his red pen out and said that that wasn\u2019t a suitable part of the purpose clause, because, clearly, consumers are a critical part of this reform and that\u2019s one thing we can absolutely agree on. I\u2019d be interested in hearing the Minister\u2019s comment on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002273fa84ccc9564b32bb125c81845573ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273fa84ccc9564b32bb125c81845573ef\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and for that contribution from the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. It\u2019s an interesting thing he\u2019s raised. My comments are that the bill\u2019s purpose statement already recognises and balances the interests of consumers and insurers with its focus, firstly, on promoting \u201Cconfident and informed participation of insurers, policyholders, and other participants in the \u2026 market\u201D and, secondly, by ensuring \u201Cthat the [provision] included in contracts of insurance, and [insurance] practices \u2026 operate fairly.\u201D I consider the framing appropriate and that an express consumer protection aim would make the provisions unnecessarily complicated and unbalanced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022d278333a79a0431ab6027df4da68278b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d278333a79a0431ab6027df4da68278b\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Before I come to the specific amendments that have been put to the Minister and have been on notice, there are only two which, really, the Labour Party has indicated it will die in a ditch over. The Labour Party has supported this legislation until this stage, but we have flagged at the first and second readings and in the committee that there are two issues which must be addressed in the current drafting. That is because consolidated insurance law in New Zealand is well overdue, and we must have law that makes it both clear and fair for insurers and consumers alike. The key to good law in this area, we can all agree, is good faith and that policyholders who make honest mistakes should not find themselves without cover as a result of those mistakes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe two amendments, which have been published for some weeks now for the Minister\u2019s consideration, are about these simple things: where policyholders who make a mistake with their disclosures should not be denied cover, and the changes that the Finance and Expenditure Committee has made to the bill that did away with the word \u201Cfraud\u201D and used the less clear \u201Cdishonesty\u201D standard. If the Minister can give a clear assurance tonight that he will vote in favour of the amendment which goes back to the bill as drafted\u2014which used the clear \u201Cfraud\u201D standard\u2014then happy days; there\u2019s support for that, because that was what was presented not only to the committee at the beginning, to the submitters who submitted upon it, but it was also what was taken to Cabinet. That\u2019s the clearest standard, that\u2019s what we can agree on in this House, and that\u2019s what we should use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe second point is that insurers should complete claims in a timely manner. As my colleague the Hon Dr Duncan Webb has said, this bill as it is currently does advance this somewhat. However, it is not fair, as it is currently drafted, to consumers, who are getting a bad deal out of a piece of legislation which could have solved a huge problem for very vulnerable insurance consumers. When there is a time delay, people lose money. They lose hope in the system\u2014people who are homeowners who have suffered from really long delays in situations like the Christchurch earthquake\u2014and so that is something which needs to be addressed. We should use the approach that is in the Amendment Paper in my name, which has been published now for a number of weeks, which everyone has been able to consider, which is a considered approach that would allow a proper framework for that. If those two things can be agreed, we would be happy to support this bill as amended.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EAlso, I want to acknowledge the very hard work that went into it from the select committee. A number of changes were made which do advance the position in some ways. We have some specific questions around the new powers around genetic testing. This was supported by Labour members at the committee stage, and I will elaborate on this a little bit later when we come to the appropriate part. I want to be really clear with people following along on this\u2014because we know, as a committee, that there were a number of submitters who were very, very passionate about this issue\u2014that what was reached was a compromise, to take a cautionary and safe approach to restricting the practice of genetic testing being used by insurers in New Zealand, similar to the UK model. However, Minister, things have changed since the select committee reported back. Australia has now moved to ban the use of genetic testing by insurers with a five-year period and then a review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe will put questions to the Minister about whether his approach has changed, given the change in context globally, and the importance of this issue for a community of people in New Zealand who are watching this with interest because it is incredibly important to\u00A0them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff6ab6fd47fa4c2bb5c1aee7e2ffaf31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff6ab6fd47fa4c2bb5c1aee7e2ffaf31\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just also to signal, too, Mr Chair, that when we are going through this bill\u2014because this is quite a hefty bill, and it\u2019s quite substantial\u2014we will be taking this bill part by part and, to the best of our abilities within each part, subpart by subpart, as I\u2019m sure we will go on in due time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EThe first question I have for the Minister is around clause 5\u2014and particularly when we are looking at the interpretation and definition. Understanding what the submitters were requesting and also what the Finance and Expenditure Committee has done in terms of adding additional specification to the definition of specified intermediaries, I\u2019m curious to know\u2014drawing on a later section, but I think it\u2019s important to mention it here\u2014under Part\u00A04 clause 120, it gives specific definition to \u201Cbroker\u201D. When we\u2019re looking at the concept of a broker also as an insurance intermediary, I wondered if the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind clarifying why that definition\u2014particularly when it comes to insurance intermediary\u2014isn\u2019t put earlier on, as part of clause 5, to encompass the entire legislation, as opposed to being left independently later on, in Part 4. And, of course, once we get to Part 4, I will have subsequent questions around brokers. I think that is one of the first questions I have: when we are looking at this idea of specified intermediaries and the interaction with other forms of intermediaries, particularly in the context of a broker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EAnother thing that I want to mention\u2014which I know the Hon Dr Duncan Webb has an Amendment Paper on, which I\u2019m sure he will mention later on\u2014is regarding clause 7, and particularly around the conflict of laws. Now, understanding that, as part of the select committee process\u2014based on the information that is given at the beginning, in terms of the explanatory note\u2014under subclause (2), there\u2019s been a change from \u201Ccontract of reinsurance\u201D to \u201Cnon-consumer insurance contract\u201D. There is a whole section on whether a contract of reinsurance should be considered as insurance for the purpose of this Act\u2014the contract of insurance in the first place\u2014but I wanted to understand from the Minister: when we are looking at, in this case, non-consumer insurance contracts, has there been any consideration post this being brought to the House by the select committee\u2014if the Minister has received any advice on the proportion between what would be applicable under consumer insurance contract for that clause 7(2) and what would be considered the proportion of non-consumer insurance contract? I would presume that by not having the consumer contract there, hopefully it is quite a small proportion of it. I would like to know if the Minister has any more details around that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022acad46ff83124decb6357354d488273b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022acad46ff83124decb6357354d488273b\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m seeking to debate a series of short questions with the Minister. First, will he support my Amendment Paper 110? If the Minister can\u2019t answer that, will he support my Amendment Paper 111?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8894fb6be744f40b9199aa82898f9ca\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Are we in the right part here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272c21f82721846d981b273e7e1afbae8\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m seeking an indication from the Minister, because that will impact the way that we debate Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d07cef78b1474332b18549581c907495\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you\u2019ll probably need to draw that out as to why this is pertinent to this part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb3f7b5fe3e64cac8a67cf929dfe722e\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this. The reason why I have asked the Minister to indicate whether or not he will be supporting the Amendment Papers, which have now been published for three weeks for his consideration, is that these are make it or break it issues for bipartisan support for his piece of legislation. Bipartisan support for something this significant to New Zealand\u2019s insurance law is important, but it was also an important part of the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2019s consideration of this bill, because there is support for reforming insurance law in New Zealand. For too long, it has been scattered across multiple Acts and in case law. When we debate Part 1, we\u2019ll come to a number of things that Labour members do not agree with, and they would not have been the changes that a Labour Minister would have proposed to this House, and indeed were not the changes proposed by the member whose member\u2019s bill this is a very similar bill to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EHowever, we can accept a package of changes which advances the position for not only consumers but insurers in New Zealand as a whole, and it is important to Labour members to have an indication from the Minister of whether not only what he brought to the committee but whether what he brought to his Cabinet colleagues is something that he will continue to support after submitters have lined up at the door and asked for their special interest changes. These are industry members, these are lawyers who represent the industry; this is the Insurance Council of New Zealand who have asked for special changes and they have arrived in the bill. I\u2019m asking him, on these two points, will he commit to going back to what he took to not only the beginning of the committee process to this House, to the Parliament, but also to his Cabinet colleagues, or are we going to debate every single clause in Part 1?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002289e93b16f8b249ca994fe5662763fc13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289e93b16f8b249ca994fe5662763fc13\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Unfortunately, I\u2019ve got to inform the member that we won\u2019t be changing and adopting the proposals from the member. You raised two substantive issues, and I acknowledge that\u2014one around good faith and the second one is the use of the term \u201Cdishonestly\u201D rather than \u201Cfraudulently\u201D. I just want to deal with the second. Rather than just getting in a whole lot of discussions around various parts, I\u2019ll just deal with the one around \u201Cdishonestly\u201D rather than \u201Cfraudulently\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe reason why we adopted \u201Cdishonestly\u201D is that first of all, people don\u2019t realise that the definition of fraud has a different meaning whether it\u2019s in a criminal sense or whether it\u2019s in a civil sense. The member may well be aware of that difference or that nuance, but many people are not. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EThe criminal standard of fraud describes crimes for personal gain or depriving someone of something with deceit. This implies criminal behaviour proved to a criminal standard of proof, which, of course, is a higher standard which would not be appropriate in this respect. The civil law standard of fraud, however, as we are focused on, is wider. In civil law, fraud is knowing a statement is false or recklessly not caring whether it is correct or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ENow, like the bill, the UK legislation uses \u201Cdishonestly\u201D to discourage deliberate wrongdoing. The UK Law Commission, I\u2019ll remind the member, has advised against the use of \u201Cfraud\u201D because of the confusion as to its different meanings, as I\u2019ve discussed previously. \u201CDishonest\u201D is a high threshold. It would require intent and not capture a consumer who has simply been careless or made an honest mistake. That is why we\u2019ve adopted the approach of using the word \u201Cdishonestly\u201D rather than \u201Cfraudulently\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022d44f8fc4adfd4b0f969256b47f50e5d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d44f8fc4adfd4b0f969256b47f50e5d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E That\u2019s quite a lecture on dishonesty from the Minister there. He seems to know a lot about it. My question actually goes to the meaning of the contract of insurance\u2014and I\u2019m sorry if I\u2019m keeping the Minister up late; I know he doesn\u2019t like working late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMy question goes to the question of what it is to be a contract of insurance. It\u2019s in clause 6 of the bill. It\u2019s really one of those borderline issues around the line between what\u2019s a proper, legitimate commercial contract and what is, essentially, a wagering contract or a gambling contract or something of that nature. We see all kinds of contracts, and there\u2019s a lot of grey area, because if you think about what an insurance contract is, at its very core, it\u2019s providing a sum of money to cover the likelihood of an uncertain event occurring.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, when that uncertain event is an earthquake which damages my house, it makes perfect sense. When it\u2019s someone suing me for my own negligence, it makes perfect sense. But we get into some broader issues there where the contract of insurance might be the American dollar falling below a certain exchange rate. Is that a contract of insurance or is that some other kind of contract? Or if you\u2019re the owner of the Auckland Football Club and it\u2019s raining on a particular day or it loses a particular game. Now, what if you\u2019re not the owner of that football club? Can you also ensure that the Auckland Football Club wins or loses? Therein lies the problem: that by degrees we move from perfectly legitimate commercial arrangements into a murky field of financial arrangements where what lawyers would call insurable interests aren\u2019t clear, and then into arrangements where, of course, you cannot ensure that a football team wins or loses if you don\u2019t own that team. Maybe if you own them you can, but, then again, that runs into different problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EMy Amendment Paper, which is on the Table, proposes a new clause 6(4), which, admittedly\u2014because I don\u2019t have the entire intellectual power of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment behind me, unfortunately\u2014is only an estimation, perhaps, of what the best definition would be. It says that it\u2019s not an insurance contract if it\u2019s an arrangement in the nature of a gambling contract in which the policyholder has no interest in the outcome of an uncertain event other than by virtue of the contract. Then, it\u2019s not a contract of insurance. Now, that\u2019s tricky because there are a whole lot of arrangements\u2014and the foreign exchange and futures arrangements are good examples of them\u2014where you\u2019re actually putting money on the table on the basis of movements in financial markets. That is extremely similar to a gambling contract and, arguably, part of some of the problems that our financial markets have in terms of the spirals, the vicious cycles, that they get into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m interested in the Minister\u2019s view on whether the definition of \u201Cinsurance contract\u201D actually is certain enough\u2014and my view is it isn\u2019t\u2014to exclude arrangements which are either commercial but clearly not insurance or, in fact, tantamount to gambling and therefore should not get the protections afforded by this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002211a387077a264a52b591ffa8d6e5f6d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211a387077a264a52b591ffa8d6e5f6d9\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you. I didn\u2019t think we were going to be talking about US dollars and football, but I note the efforts of the Hon Dr Webb in his proposed clause 6. Unfortunately, I\u2019ve got to take the wind out of your sails, Mr Webb, because this provision is already included in the bill. Just for his edification, clause 6 already incorporates by reference exclusions in section 7(3) of the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Act 2010, which covers gambling. There\u2019s no need to make this change. I know what you\u2019re trying to achieve, but, actually, it\u2019s already covered, and that\u2019s why we won\u2019t be picking up that element.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EAlso, I just want to return to Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2019s question earlier about clause 7, following on from clause 6. It\u2019s unclear why this would be useful, what\u2019s been proposed under clause 7. The existing wording is based on and is consistent with the existing provision in the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act, as you\u2019re well aware, and that provision has operated for well over 20 years with no problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022 data-id=\u002225d3ce2fb4574682ac6e2c6dffd0fcc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225d3ce2fb4574682ac6e2c6dffd0fcc2\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to ask a little more about clause 7. I\u2019m rather interested in this decision that\u2019s been made to break with the tradition of allowing a forum conveniens, or a choice of forums. It seems it\u2019s quite a sensible one, but I\u2019d really like the public to understand what you meant by it. You\u2019ve made a decision here for some contracts to be subject to that choice and other contracts not to be able to be subject to that choice. I presume it\u2019s because of the power differential in that situation and that your consumers have a lot less power in that situation, and that a forum conveniens that was somewhere else would be actually impossible for them to resolve a dispute in, etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225ec01d23-b55e-45b9-a668-d3bf14212126\u0022\u003EI\u2019d quite like to tease that out in terms of that, because the public won\u2019t really understand those clauses and yet they have become more and more common, and they have become a device for avoiding responsibility. An insurance company that enters into one where, in fact, there\u2019s a place that is a long way away\u2014that is going to become problematic for a New Zealand consumer. I\u2019d love you to elaborate and tell us why that is there and why there is the distinction in that, because there was a recommendation, as I understand it, to separate off the non-consumer contracts and allow a choice of forum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00225dc04492643844029c863f9169e44c52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225dc04492643844029c863f9169e44c52\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you for the opportunity to now begin some questions on Part 1. I\u2019ll take the Minister to clause 7 on page 13, and, as my colleague Helen White has raised, there are some issues with the conflict of laws provision. This is something that the Finance and Expenditure Committee dealt with extensively, and it will bleed into Part 2 because that is where the definition that is relevant here is to be found, but the questions that I have on the conflict of laws also relate to the reinsurance part of Part 1 and the intermediary parts, and so I\u2019ll come to that in a minute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EFirstly, on the conflict of laws, I want to ask the Minister whether this amendment that happened at the select committee is clear enough for him to be comfortable with it being limited to only contracts of reinsurance by that amendment to clause 7(2), which limits subclause (1)(b) to non-consumer insurance contracts. The reason I ask is that, in this situation, it envisions that because reinsurance contracts are sophisticated commercial arrangements between commercial parties who will usually have quite long and well-negotiated commercial contracts, in their contracts they are well set up to negotiate which forum and whose law should apply to their contract. They might have a provision in there which says that the Singaporean or the UK law will apply, they\u2019ll also pick a jurisdiction for any disagreements to be arbitrated in, and then they might pick another jurisdiction, if that arbitration fails, to then commence litigation proceedings, should the dispute not be resolved at that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWhy I ask is because, while this was worded to say that the ability in a contract to opt out of having the New Zealand law apply was where it was very specific that that was only for contracts of reinsurance, we\u2019ve now opened it up to non-consumer insurance contracts. I have asked the Minister whether he is confident that this will be limited to contracts of reinsurance, or is it his intention that it will apply to other sophisticated commercial arrangements between parties, because the select committee\u2019s deliberations on that were unclear. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe next question is: what happens if two parties who are, say, parties to a reinsurance arrangement, or the kind of sophisticated commercial insurance arrangement that the Minister might otherwise be envisioning, have not entered into an agreement about which jurisdiction\u2019s law will apply? Do the normal conflict of law provisions then apply? Will one party need to prove that their domestic legislation applies to suit them? Given that this provision has the sort of presumption here that if you are a sophisticated commercial party and clause 7(2) applies to you, then it won\u2019t, the question is: does that put the commercial party based in New Zealand at a significant disadvantage, because the legislation now has a very clear provision that was intended to provide for arrangements that did negotiate which rule would apply? Are we now in a position where New Zealand insurers who do not include those provisions in their contracting terms are unable to prove or are somehow fettered in proving in a court\u2014and it might be Singapore or it might be the UK or it might be New Zealand\u2014that the jurisdiction that they prefer, which is probably the New Zealand jurisdiction, should apply? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI also wanted to ask him more about whether it is his intention that this provision will apply to sophisticated contracting parties who opt to have a different jurisdiction\u2019s insurance law apply to them, and then where is the line between what will be considered in a consumer insurance contract for this and in a non-consumer insurance contract for this. Given that there is a definition that is set out in Part 2, the problem here is that this provision seems to stand alone. Clause 7 just assumes that every arrangement between these sorts of parties will deal with the jurisdictional issue, and that\u2019s fine in a perfect world, where every commercial party comes to these negotiations on an equal footing, but not in situations in the real world, where they don\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00226543a3418eb844979c4e882aa262e6b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226543a3418eb844979c4e882aa262e6b7\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Just addressing Helen White\u2019s question and also the last member, Arena Williams\u2019 contribution around clause 7.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EFirst of all, I think it\u2019s important to state that the bill is about protecting consumers and the view that commercial partners should be allowed autonomy to choose the law that governs the contract that they are operating under. We\u2019ve received expert advice on this issue, and I just note that clause 6 specifically excludes, as the member will know, under subclause (3)(aa) \u201Ca contract of reinsurance\u201D, which is referred to, because, of course, that\u2019s a commercial nature and often that will involve international parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EFor that reason, under clause 7, which was obliquely referred to, clause 7(1)(b), it, again, \u201Cwould be governed by the law of New Zealand but for a choice of law provision in the contract.\u201D You will see in clause 7(2) that that doesn\u2019t apply to \u201Cnon-consumer\u201D\u2014i.e., commercial\u2014\u201Cinsurance contract.\u201D It\u2019s actually all there for the member to understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u00221faea48dab8a45d8a2efffe32285f2e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221faea48dab8a45d8a2efffe32285f2e9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I know the Minister currently holds some other portfolios which are relevant to this. Particularly, he\u2019s referred to clause 7(2). That provides that the conflict of laws provisions do not apply to a non-consumer insurance contract. One of the challenges there that I\u2019d like the Minister to answer is with particularly small businesses, because insurance companies aren\u2019t all benign. When they do things like business interruption insurance, as a really good example\u2014clearly commercial, but often held by very small businesses\u2014if a choice of law clause in there says, \u201CSubject to the law of Singapore\u201D, then simply because they aren\u2019t captured as consumers, they are then subject to a legal framework which, even if it\u2019s legitimate and workable, is entirely foreign and puts them entirely on the back foot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EReinsurance I get, right\u2014that\u2019s an international market and you should be able to assume the law and forum which is suitable between insurer and reinsurer, and there might be some other very large contracts: the New Zealand Government insuring its assets or a local council insuring its assets\u2014hundreds of millions of dollars of assets, millions of dollars in premiums, choice of law there makes sense. But, when you\u2019ve got a dairy owner who is insuring against material damage and business interruption, the suggestion that you\u2019re going to get the law of the Philippines or the law or whatever jurisdiction the insurer chooses\u2014because these are form contracts. No one reads them. We might have an expert on the law in the Philippines in the room, but that\u2019s not likely for your corner dairy owner. That\u2019s the first thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EThe second thing I\u2019ll say about this is that I know this bill was handed over in pretty good shape to the Minister, but because of another bill in the House, he\u2019s rushed it. There are a whole lot of drafting issues that still haven\u2019t been picked up in this bill. Clause 7(1)(b) really just needs\u2014and I\u2019ve got an Amendment Paper on this\u2014to be tidied up. It\u2019s frustrating that it\u2019s me doing the tidying up rather than him, but it really should say \u201Cwould be governed by the law of New Zealand but for a choice of law provision in a contract which is enforceable.\u201D Those three words at the end are quite important, because there are many situations where it\u2019s actually not permissible\u2014in a consumer contract at least, and certainly in most other contracts\u2014to just randomly choose the law of Uzbekistan which has no connection with the contract in question. We\u2019ve got to be careful about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EAgain, it\u2019s just loose wording, Minister, that you haven\u2019t really had the time or energy or attention to fix up. So if you\u2019d tidy that up as well and pick up my Amendment Paper in respect of clause 7 that would be great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u002215a64ac24bed49fd9ec6d5af9a4613b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215a64ac24bed49fd9ec6d5af9a4613b3\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I find it fascinating\u2014the member who\u2019s just sat down. I think we need a dose of reality. Even in the example he quoted, there still remains a choice for non-consumer, i.e., commercial operators\u2014dairy in his example\u2014to choose who they will take a policy out with. The assumption is that they\u2019re not sitting there having it forced upon them. They have a choice which policy or insurer they want to work with. I think the member is just divorcing himself slightly from reality, because that\u2019s what happens when businesses enter into a contract with their insurer: they go through that process and they will be aware if they\u2019re going to be subject to the laws of the Philippines or not. If they don\u2019t want to be, they don\u2019t have to be, and they\u2019ll obviously choose an insurer that will provide them with the certainty they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022781da04a8b1845f9a5f3ef6bbf23cbfe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002294b52412-f97b-4bbd-8009-5dc49520f7f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022781da04a8b1845f9a5f3ef6bbf23cbfe\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022 data-id=\u0022572ff90092a1408582e564090e4c02d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022572ff90092a1408582e564090e4c02d5\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. If I could, Mr Chair, ask a point of clarification from you as we\u2019re proceeding\u2014this is pertaining to clause 8 of Part 1, which is in relation to Schedule 1. Now, Mr Chair, normally for schedules, we\u2019re debating them under the part which they fall under, but may I draw your attention to Schedule 1. Schedule 1 pertains to a lot of other parts\u2014like, clause 1 of Schedule 1 refers to Part 2 whereas clause 3 refers to Subpart 5 of Part 3. I was wanting to seek your guidance, before I ask the Minister in the chair, Andrew Bayly, some questions, on whether it is appropriate to debate Schedule 1 as the part comes up rather than jumping back and forth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a25ee969f2c4a6fa0df32d01e11783b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well spotted. Yes, that can be debated under Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c69a8af76c743e4965c2532725b9ce0\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. The question I have for the Minister\u2014and this is following up on what the Hon Dr Duncan Webb has mentioned in terms of the purpose of this particular bill. Understanding that, when we\u2019re looking at this bill, it comes from what was originally proposed by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, and it was under a Government bill under the previous speaker, I just want to strongly support Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s amendment, particularly in terms of adding clause 3 and inserting clause 3C in this, especially around protecting the interest. Now, I understand the Minister has mentioned before that protecting the interests of consumers absolutely is a key part of this bill, and I would like to implore the Minister to consider this particular amendment as well when we\u2019re discussing this further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223cc9806d-f7ef-4e23-a218-442f20bf8591\u0022\u003EI also think, in terms of some of the other amendments, one of the amendments that the Minister has\u2014which would be around clause 7(3), with the addition of 89(2), which is part of the amendment\u2014tied in with the overall purpose and with the discussion that has been had around the purpose clause 3(a), around promoting the confidence and informed participation in the New Zealand insurance market. I would be keen to hear from the Minister, if he wouldn\u2019t mind clarifying, how that confidence in the New Zealand insurance market ties into the other conversations that we\u2019ve been having regarding other jurisdictions. Would that be something that works together well with the other clauses\u2014and particularly clause 7 has been brought up a lot\u2014or is that something that potentially is a lot more nuanced? I would like to hear what the Minister has to say for that. Once again, thank you, Mr Chair, for clarifying Schedule 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u00225422147bf73449f098da691a35ee73cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225422147bf73449f098da691a35ee73cf\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs for that remarkable explanation of subclause (2) of clause 7, because it is very unclear, and the reading, from my perspective, was that this was still about contracts of reinsurance. He has clarified that, no, this is an attack on small businesses. This is a rearrangement of contract terms so that small businesses who enter into contracts with large insurers cannot rely on the protections about large insurers opting to only arbitrate and then litigate disputes in Singapore or London.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EMy colleague the Hon Duncan Webb made a joke about the law of Singapore and he said, \u201CWell, wouldn\u2019t it be ridiculous if we chose the law of Uzbekistan?\u201D It would be ridiculous, but what is more ridiculous is that it is completely ordinary, common practice for large insurers to have arbitration in Singapore and litigation in the High Court in London. What small business, Minister Bayly, can afford to bring a dispute about their insurance, about the timeliness of their insurance, about the payouts that they are entitled to, about the terms that they have signed up to? What small business can possibly afford to bring an arbitration in Singapore?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThis is a huge departure from what this said originally, when it was only intended to apply to insurer-to-insurer contracts, where you have six lawyers in the room debating with each other for days about the terms of this contract. That is fair. It\u2019s fair to say to the industry, \u201CYep, you hash it out. The Government has no place in this.\u201D But small businesses\u2014mums and dads around the country\u2014will not be able to access the provisions that clause 7(2) had when it was introduced to this House, and that is a shame and we need the Minister to explain what his intention there is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EThe second point that I have to make is about reinsurance generally. The Minister has clarified that section 6(3)(aa) excludes the contract of reinsurance from the meaning of a \u201Ccontract of insurance\u201D generally, but we still need some clarification about if we\u2019re using the provisions that were intended originally to only apply to contracts of reinsurance here in these arrangements\u2014is that then echoed elsewhere? That wasn\u2019t the understanding that I had when we were working through this with officials.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI also want to understand, from the Minister, where did this change come from? Which submitters submitted to the Finance and Expenditure Committee? Which submitters made representations to him that large insurance contract provisions\u2014the provisions which were intended to only apply insurer to insurer\u2014should now apply insurer to small business? Who might it have been that came to the Minister and said, \u201CGosh, I will be losing out on my profits here if I have to look out for the little guy.\u201D? Who was it that made representations to the Finance and Expenditure Committee and the Minister to suggest this change, and why did the Minister take that submission on board? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0a57f6432fb4bdbbb469232a7014901\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0a57f6432fb4bdbbb469232a7014901\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the Green member Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan for pointing out that we\u2019re on Schedule 1 as well as Part 1, which is the transitional provisions. In many cases, transitional provisions can be a bit ho-hum, but in fact in insurance contracts they\u2019re anything but ho-hum, because of the long time lag. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EOne of the things we agree on is that the disclosure rules\u2014the basis upon which an insurance contract can be avoided on the basis of a mistake made by the insured\u2014badly need changing. Now, clause 1 of Schedule 1 is headed and captures what it means: \u201CNew disclosure duties apply to new contracts and variations\u201D. The fact of the matter is that, in three months\u2019 time, there may well be an insurance situation\u2014life, fire, general\u2014where three or four years ago there\u2019s been a mistake made by a consumer. This is all very nice, this Contracts of Insurance Bill, but that disclosure duty is not the new disclosure duty. The measure of that behaviour under clause 1 of Part 1 is not the new disclosure standard; it\u2019s the old one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EI mean, that\u2019s prospective and insurers no doubt would bleat that if we said, \u201COh, no; we\u2019re going to change the law so that the disclosure duty in 2020 is the new disclosure duty.\u201D, it\u2019s called retrospective. I think there\u2019s a good case for retrospectivity here, and seeing as this Government doesn\u2019t seem to worry much about retrospectivity in respect of, say, three strikes or the marine and coastal area Act, it strikes me that there\u2019s a very good case here to say the test applies in respect of any claim made after the Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003ENow, if you\u2019ve got litigation and so on and so forth, or disputes going on now, if your claim\u2019s been made, that\u2019s classic crystallisation. Your rights are crystallised. It\u2019s the law applicable when you made your claim. But in this case\u2014because this has got a long, long tail; for example, misrepresentation of life insurance\u2014those misrepresentations and mistakes could be 30 years old, so a mistake made today will have an impact on a death or a claim under a life insurance policy made in 30 years\u2019 time. This rule will come into play very gradually indeed, and in fact its whole utility is wildly undermined for as long as insurers can go back in history and dig around and find a non-disclosure or other misrepresentation or mistake that was made prior to the commencement of this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f7fc7ac3-5ce1-43ca-8cd6-dbb0941bf3ae\u0022\u003EIf ever there was a case, quite apart from the offensive pieces of legislation where retrospectivity is being used by this Government, it\u2019s here, because we know the law as it currently stands is an ass. Saying, \u201CWell, we\u2019ve tidied it up. Now, we\u2019re not going to interfere with claims that are made already, but if you make a claim after the Act comes into force, the new misrepresentation test applies, not the old one.\u201D\u2014that\u2019s a far better transitional provision than one which will see people\u2019s claims unfairly denied. That\u2019s the key point\u2014that it\u2019s unfair. We all recognise it\u2019s unfair\u2014unfairly denied until the final tiny tail has disappeared, which could be 30-plus years down the trail.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4da54fe858e479092190fec2d5a646e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4da54fe858e479092190fec2d5a646e\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I find it extraordinary that a person who has a Doctor of Laws is proposing retrospective operation under clause 1 of Schedule 1. The member must know that there\u2019s a well-known legal principle that people should be able to hear court cases based on the facts at the time contracts were entered into.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003EI think the member needs to be aware and cognisant of the fact that by introducing a retrospective arrangement, as he proposed, it cuts both ways\u2014it cuts both ways.\u00A0It may work in the favour of a consumer, but it may also work in the favour of an insurer. I think it\u2019s a dangerous precedent to be suggesting. That is why we propose lead time for the operation of this. We will hope to bring this bill in\u2014as the Minister will have regulation-making powers to be able to bring in early parts of this\u2014but we want to make sure that the arrangements come into force when people have time to consider it and the policies can be adapted. That is a key principle to it. I am very surprised about the suggestion from the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003ESecondly, I just want to go back to Ms Williams\u2019 comment around clause 7, Subpart 2. I note that this change to this clause was unanimously agreed to by the committee, including the member herself. Secondly, expert submitters on conflicts of law advised that this was the best approach to allow commercial parties to have autonomy to choose their own governing law and which is consistent with international best practice. I am sure that the member listened intently during that process when she unanimously agreed with the rest of the select committee to that change. I find it quite surprising to find in the middle of a committee of the whole House that she is trying to relitigate something at this late stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022 data-id=\u0022008004413b6641b4b8d3a9f5bae248fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002257c0c650-e6a0-4475-b66d-5281ede8b1e3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022008004413b6641b4b8d3a9f5bae248fd\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022 data-id=\u0022557cde0ab4eb4f99b1a078f24237c08b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022557cde0ab4eb4f99b1a078f24237c08b\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for this unexpected honour. I just wanted to take a call because I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd3a282526014668b6070378968c5fce\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Did the member not seek the call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f14d378da5284acda7d67278790e6480\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: No, I did. I did. It\u2019s still an unexpected honour, none the less. I always relish these calls. I felt like I had to take a call because the word \u201CPhilippines\u201D was mentioned quite a bit. I wanted to make sure to be representing these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EI had a question around clause 6(2), the clause around the \u201Cuncertain event\u201D. Now, I think the thing about uncertain events is that they\u2019re uncertain by definition, but are there degrees of certainty? Is there some sort of matrix or some sort of sliding scale that makes an uncertain event more uncertain than others? And what is the threshold, basically? I ask this question because it\u2019s something that we will have to deal with quite a little bit more with, I guess, the advent of climate-related events and climate-related natural disasters. I\u2019m just wanting to acknowledge that there was one such event earlier during the month in Dunedin, and I think it was a time which was very sad for the city, but, in a sense, it was something that was expected but also unexpected at the same time. There are degrees of uncertainty, so what is the actual threshold? I think it\u2019s really important that we consider this question and it\u2019s really important that I\u2019m wanting some clarity from the Minister on this, because I think it will help guide the interpretation of certain provisions in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fe342415-6351-4072-a17e-19dab2ef184d\u0022\u003EAnother question that I had around this aspect of uncertainty is: what if there\u2019s differing forecasts or differing kinds of prognostications? For example, if the regional council had one set of hazard maps\u2014a shout-out to the Otago Regional Council\u2014and, for example, the Natural Hazards Commission or central government had another set of hazard maps. If there\u2019s an aspect of uncertainty and there\u2019s evidence that kind of points both ways, is there a sort of hierarchy where certain types of information take more priority compared to others? I won\u2019t belabour the point. I\u2019m a Green member, so I think I\u2019ll leave my contribution at that. I\u2019m looking forward to an answer to this question. Thank you, Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed89f1fac2854973a6a6277d6a260d34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed89f1fac2854973a6a6277d6a260d34\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Well, what a remarkable contribution to this debate from this Minister in the chair, Andrew Bayly, who is acting surprised about why Labour members are not supporting his bill. Let me briefly explain. This Minister has not been straight up with New Zealanders about the changes he intended. He took a bill to Cabinet, there were some changes, then he took it to the first reading of this Parliament and then there were some changes, and then he took it to select committee and then there were some changes, and then we\u2019ve come to this committee and Labour members have said, \u201CLook, at every stage you have introduced more changes which have punished the little guy, which have gone against the very intention of this bill, which was to protect consumers, and at every stage it has got worse and worse.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EWe can support a package of changes which would revolutionise New Zealand\u2019s insurance law, because it is well overdue, but we cannot support two things. I put those things to the Minister, and he refused to change them. Now, they were changing them back to what his Cabinet colleagues agreed to. They were changing them back to what this Parliament agreed to. They were changing them back to what was put to the hundreds of submitters who came along and gave us their opinions in select committee. That is why I am now asking him questions that he is uncomfortable with answering, about why he is putting small businesses through pain in his changes to clause 7(2), because small businesses will wear pain because of these changes that he has proposed, that are only to benefit large insurers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EI have two questions for him about that. Has he considered the effect of the very broad change that he has made on consumers for professional businesses that are really about consumers? The question here is about professional indemnities. When you insure lawyers or accountants, you\u2019re really insuring the people who go to lawyers and accountants for their professional advice. These are really insurances for the littlest of the little guy, because in those situations you are very vulnerable. You are completely reliant on the professional advice of the person you are paying to give you advice. Insurance contracts in these scenarios make sure that the person who is giving the advice, the person with all the power in this scenario, is able to pay out if they have caused material damage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003EIs it a non-commercial contract? Is it the kind of contract where the Minister has stood in this House and said, \u201CNo, these protections shouldn\u2019t apply, because commercial parties should be able to negotiate amongst themselves.\u201D If the little guy who goes to their accountant and gets dicked out of hundreds of thousands of dollars in their life savings, which happens over and over again in New Zealand, is that person, who might not be insured or might not be able to access insurance because of these provisions which this Minister has inserted into this bill at this late stage\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf8fd9c4b2274e058e8048dc1f83d71e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf8fd9c4b2274e058e8048dc1f83d71e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I\u2019m sorry to interrupt the member, but the time has come for me to report progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b464a62e-d900-452a-b842-e3cf4ccc6149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224848d49aa0d34bc182b242551e94f857\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: I was just getting started!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd0f8cbbe5af4d6a9358457cd5618317\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That was what I feared, Ms Williams.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022961df9ddaf384352ad8a055f53075323\u0022\u003EREPORT OF COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cddce2ce847448298fd5e4b7e6d382e2\u0022\u003EREPORT OF COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022 data-id=\u0022a899be6db68441c5a19f17f46e4407b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a899be6db68441c5a19f17f46e4407b9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and reports it with amendment. The committee has also considered the Contracts of Insurance Bill and reports that it has made progress on the bill. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002202e74c40-9529-4e15-adc2-c032eadc2205\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d8de1851210e42d3ae84dd6c92bb4c8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d8de1851210e42d3ae84dd6c92bb4c8a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Resource Management (Freshwater and Other Matters) Amendment Bill is set down for third reading next sitting day, and the Contracts of Insurance Bill is set down for further consideration in committee next sitting day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ee9e6ba5af94ade92ffe99bb8b31c30\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220304d396333e430e895613f944add952\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022 data-id=\u00223c6cfa0df5f64d899140ac23e32b3db4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c6cfa0df5f64d899140ac23e32b3db4\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek leave to make a personal explanation regarding the answer I gave to a supplementary question to oral question No. 6 today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dbe78fb859e4b248cdd65ecd2ee334a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022859e13f9-33bb-41bb-b2f0-d848eaf25407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c762390c24fe4bd5935c90a927120891\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: I was asked today, had I had any alcohol with\u2014sorry, had I had any alcohol at the beer garden or the winery I visited that day. I took this to mean whether or not I\u2019d had any alcohol prior to the incident that led to the complaint. Therefore, I correctly answered no. However, for the avoidance of any doubt, after the incident and at the end of the day, I had a small wine tasting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f221be77ad824fe1b55e10e58d1325be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f221be77ad824fe1b55e10e58d1325be\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20241022654fa426120547c5b876e390c28624a1000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002261720d2e-5b1d-4742-b4f0-30424316ccc1\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"