"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222e5f7d1cf32a462abc76d6c0452244fa\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 13 NOVEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002249a6c4977c54488385b44bffae181886\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 13 NOVEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002286e23b459a8244bbb0f9b4ae8310c219\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002242fc2e7846754071b53bbebc06474e58\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0670a4630e640f6a402e7a1d54afb84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0670a4630e640f6a402e7a1d54afb84\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4ddca22db054d4e8d846bfc7d6db6be\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224905a0dba32c4682a944258f2dedfad4\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022792e2b63502242cf878773fa25395b17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022792e2b63502242cf878773fa25395b17\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Three petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00220ba782f4d30141ee9cfe3a30d742e232\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ba782f4d30141ee9cfe3a30d742e232\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPetition of Ihorangi Reweti Peters requesting that the House implement all recommendations made to the Government in the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Ross Hoole requesting that the House raise the maximum age of a child in section 132 of the Crimes Act 1961 from under 12 years to under 14 years of age\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Kenneth Mulholland requesting that the House urge the Minister of Local Government to appoint a commission to replace Wellington City Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbcf9889f81b400aa162c07e8fb5444b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbcf9889f81b400aa162c07e8fb5444b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. Six papers have been delivered by Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022039d493537bd460185a9dfb417f1b504\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022039d493537bd460185a9dfb417f1b504\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2024 annual reports for:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003EHealth Research Council of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003EHerenga \u0101 Nuku Aotearoa, the Outdoor Access Commission\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Trade and Enterprise\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003ETourism New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2024-28 statement of intent for the Health Research Council of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2024-25 statement of performance expectations for the Health Research Council of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00224bffe240e44048c993ad7047e0cef6c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bffe240e44048c993ad7047e0cef6c5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Six select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022651c8c9496dc4dc68b5c7dae6d5e2925\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022651c8c9496dc4dc68b5c7dae6d5e2925\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EReport of the Environment Committee on the review briefing on the 2022-23 annual review of Predator Free 2050 Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the report of the Controller and Auditor-General, Making infrastructure investment decisions quickly\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the petition of Rajeev Nair\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Justice Committee on the inquiry into the 2023 General Election, Report of the Controller and Auditor-General, General Election 2023: Independent review of counting errors, and petition of Daniel Bond\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereports of the Petitions Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003Epetition of Alison White, and the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003Epetition of Captain William Stafford.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022f358cf357e904a259b836cce918b4b1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f358cf357e904a259b836cce918b4b1c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The inquiry on the 2023 election, the review briefings, and the report of the Auditor-General are set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220ad3bffd4a4f4ba7955dc637562f0060\u0022\u003EObituaries\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c4b15f54d0ad4da7b5b01dca8ac25278\u0022\u003ESir Robert \u201CBom\u201D Gillies KNZM\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002220d389706daa46bd84cbc5ed7c2127ef\u0022\u003ESir Robert \u201CBom\u201D Gillies KNZM.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u0022b64cee46e82040f2b0b8896676e40e2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b64cee46e82040f2b0b8896676e40e2e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Veterans):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to move a motion without notice acknowledging the passing of \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dabf966cea94fe2931113e8fdf9d920\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f52da986639e447283d533b530c25909\u0022\u003ESir Robert Gillies KNZM, affectionately known to all and sundry as \u201CBom\u201D, the last surviving member of the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion, and extend its sincere condolences to his wh\u0101nau and the wider community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215c5b7f46b1940dd9c7c601956d9b0fa\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That this House pay tribute to \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003ET\u0101 Robert was born in 1925, and, falsifying his age in order to be able to enlist, he sailed as a reinforcement for the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion in July 1943. Although wounded in action during the battle of Orsogna in 1943, he continued serving throughout the Italian campaign. Over the last two decades, Sir Robert, expressing great humility as he did so, took on the mantle of being one of the few surviving members of the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion and, in due course, its final surviving member. A generation has passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn July 1923, he opened the claimant hearings for the Waitangi Tribunal\u2019s consideration of the M\u0101ori Military Veterans Kaupapa Inquiry. He talked of the loss of his mates in a generation of M\u0101ori leaders and the difficulties and, indeed, discrimination that many of them faced when they returned home. He was appointed as a knight not only by the Italian Republic but, of course, of New Zealand in 2022. T\u0101 Bom wanted it to be known that these awards were not for himself but for all those who served in the battalion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EThe mana of the man was well remembered at his tangi, which has been conducted in recent days, and was very much in evidence on Sunday when various Government Ministers were honoured to be able to attend that. I was pleased to do so alongside the Hon Erica Stanford; the Hon Judith Collins, of course, in her capacity as Minister of Defence; along with Tama Potaka, who spoke movingly on behalf of the Government, as did the Hon Shane Jones. It was an honour for all of us to be able to attend, and I know that other members of this House across the political aisle have also had that opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003ETo Sir Robert\u2019s wh\u0101nau, then, we offer our sincere condolences and our appreciation of a life lived in the service of his family, his brothers in arms, and his community. We will remember them; we will remember him. We say to T\u0101 Bom: rest in peace, thank you for your service, lest we forget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00221f18dda281fd4eb29c8a3d1f8c3698ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f18dda281fd4eb29c8a3d1f8c3698ab\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022 data-id=\u002214d900708a9b47acaa2ebcc57a2009bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214d900708a9b47acaa2ebcc57a2009bc\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003ETomo mai e tama m\u0101 ki roto\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EI ng\u0101 ringa kua tuwhera atu nei\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EKi ng\u0101 m\u014Drehu o te Kiwi e\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EKi ng\u0101 tama toa o t\u0113nei riri nui\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E[Come in, young men, into\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EThese outstretched arms\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003ETo the survivors of the New Zealand contingent\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003ETo the brave sons of this great war]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EE te tipua o ng\u0101 tama toa o Aotearoa, e T\u0101 Robert \u201CBom\u201D Gillies, koinei te waiata i te w\u0101 i hoki mai koutou i te Pakanga Nui o te Ao. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E[To the champion of the brave boys of Aotearoa, Sir Robert \u201CBom\u201D Gillies, this is the song at the time that you all returned from World War I.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s indeed my honour to stand on behalf of the Labour Party to pay tribute to T\u0101 Robert \u201CBom\u201D Gillies. Our generation are blessed to have experienced the reserved heroism of our M\u0101ori Battalion\u2014a r\u014Dp\u016B who have become synonymous with pride, purpose, and courage instilled in whakapapa across Aotearoa. Though reluctantly, T\u0101 Bom took the responsibility of being the last man standing seriously. The uri of Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu and Te Arawa, who went to war as a very young man, left us life lessons extremely pertinent today. He spoke out against the perils of war: \u201CKarekau he take o te pakanga. Pakanga, pakanga, pakanga. Kei te haere tonu. Karekau he rongo, moumou t\u0101ngata.\u201D\u2014\u201CThere\u2019s no point to fighting. Fighting, battles, war. It still carries on. There\u2019s no peace, it is a waste of human life.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003ET\u0101 Bom rose from the rank of private to being the last bastion of an entity dear to all our hearts, demonstrating that, when called upon, we can all rise to meet the needs of our generation. A lesson\u2014again, I repeat\u2014so pertinent in this very time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EKei te tautoko an\u014D awau i ng\u0101 mihi a te Minita Penk ki a ia, me te wh\u0101nau e noho pani ana i t\u0113nei w\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E[I support the acknowledgments made by Minister Penk to him, and the family, who have been bereft at this time.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D, T\u0101 Bom, we will enjoy a rum coffee for you and all your mates at the next Anzac Day. When you were last together, you said, \u201CLast man standing, turn out the lights.\u201D E te iwi wh\u0101nui, he rangi p\u014Duri rawa atu. Kua k\u0101p\u014D ng\u0101 raiti. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E[To the wider people, this is a very sad day. The lights have gone out.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EKei te kapakapa mai te haki, te haki\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EO Ingarangi runga o Tiamana e\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E[Flying is the flag, the flag\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003EOf England over Germany.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 rawa atu t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E[Many thanks to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022 data-id=\u002246ed08a572594393b18397bbd70ec70f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246ed08a572594393b18397bbd70ec70f\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Ko te kupu te kupu, ko te Atua te Atua. Ko Ranginui ki runga, ko Papat\u016B\u0101nuku ki raro, ka mate ai te tangata. Ka p\u014D, ka ao, ka awatea. Mauri ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E[The word is the word, God is God. As Ranginui is above, so Papat\u016B\u0101nuku below, as inevitable as people will pass away. From the darkness, dawn breaks, the day is born. Wellbeing to all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003EToday, I rise on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa to honour the life and service of T\u0101 Robert Gillies\u2014T\u0101 \u201CBom\u201D. T\u0101 Bom was the last standing member of the M\u0101ori Battalion, who not only fought for our country but also for his brothers, the servicemen who returned from war, so that they would be treated with the dignity and respect that they deserved, not as second-class citizens. Young M\u0101ori men grew up with the struggles that colonisation inflicts\u2014poverty, and the dispossession of culture and land and m\u0101tauranga\u2014but having that deep connection to Aotearoa, to te ao M\u0101ori, and to our whenua. T\u0101 was relentless, over his life, in the pursuit of justice for all the soldiers from the M\u0101ori Battalion. The act of raising the battalion was seen as an offering and a chance for young M\u0101ori to prove the worth of M\u0101oridom and to secure the long-term goal of M\u0101ori autonomy\u2014things that are really relevant today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003EBorn in Hawke\u2019s Bay on 14 February 1925\u2014meaning he was 99 years old at his death\u2014to p\u0101p\u0101 Ture Gillies, Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu; and to his m\u0101m\u0101, Maata Horomona, from Te Arawa. The wh\u0101nau then moved to Rotorua, where T\u0101 Bom attended school and was raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003EAt only 17, T\u0101 Bom successfully enlisted in the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion going to World War II. This was actually his third attempt to enlist and he was only successful after giving a false date of birth. This showed his complete passion and dedication to Aotearoa and to the service to the country that he called home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003ENow, I have a 17-year-old son and it really brings home for me the mana and kaha of T\u0101, but also his wh\u0101nau, to literally go, at 17, and put yourself in the firing line. That is something that I think the young people and all of us here can hold on to and really see T\u0101 Bom as that t\u014Dtara tree. The t\u014Dtara is our tallest tree and we can look up to T\u0101 Bom and so can our tamariki. When I think of those attributes, I know my son and other rangatahi can look to them for guidance. It makes me feel calm and it makes me feel tau that we have such an amazing pillar to look to for our future, because it is our past and our present that informs the future, and I want all of the tamariki and rangatahi of Aotearoa to have everything that is their birthright, living in Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003ET\u0101 Bom exemplified the humility and kaha of the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion. Now, he was the last surviving member, and, actually, in 2022, he was finally honoured with a knighthood. This is something that he had actually turned down multiple times before this. That just shows that he was here to do the mahi; he didn\u2019t need the credit. He was happy to just see the work happen and for the changes to happen within our society, but when he did accept it, he said that this honour of a knighthood was on behalf of all the men and women he served, showing again that deep humility that he had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003EOver his lifetime, he came back and represented the M\u0101ori Battalion around Aotearoa New Zealand as well as the world. He was able to take those values that he had lived by and then bring the Wai 2500 claim to the Waitangi Tribunal. That was for the military veterans inquiry of the Waitangi Tribunal to explore the treatment of our M\u0101ori soldiers. I would put a wero to the House: has anything changed, have we done well enough, and will New Zealand honour us in our service? That is the wero\u2014for all of those soldiers who fought so hard for us and then came back to be second-class citizens. Our legacy will be honouring T\u0101 Bom\u2019s Wai claim, and I look forward to seeing how that progresses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003ET\u0101 Bom was about the mahi and the kaupapa and the dedication that our soldiers had to ensure that M\u0101ori and te ao M\u0101ori and our m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori had a place in protecting New Zealand and te ao M\u0101ori. T\u0101 Bom over this last week was laid to rest at Te  in \u014Chinemutu in Rotorua. It has been an emotional week\u2014not being able to be there but seeing the footage coming through and the words of so many New Zealanders. I think that the k\u014Drero went on to about 3 a.m., and all of the speakers talked of his humility, his strength, and how we can look to T\u0101 Bom in the future for ourselves and for every other generation. In fact, his grandson noted that people thought of him as a window to the past, linking them to their own koros and nannies, and it is so important that we recognise that whakapapa because it is our t\u012Bpuna that give us strength. We can look to them to learn the ways that they did things and also the way that they improved and empowered other people around them so that we can look to our t\u012Bpuna in the future and give us that strength. Really, that is what I want all of our rangatahi to think, including my own children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003EI do want to take a moment to reflect on the h\u012Bkoi activations across the motu this week, where tens of thousands are marching to P\u0101remata in a peaceful protest\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f0b07224e4b4bd796158f2428f4deb1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think that steps well outside the motion. The member will resume her seat\u2014the member will resume her seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d7b1e3b6fae744f19867175d7757ad7c\u0022 data-id=\u002295669f81f26448a89063e0804dca9481\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d7b1e3b6fae744f19867175d7757ad7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295669f81f26448a89063e0804dca9481\u0022\u003EMARK CAMERON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E I couldn\u2019t be prouder to be part of this day. T\u0101 Robert \u201CBom\u201D was an amazing human being. The final t\u014Dtara of the great 28th M\u0101ori Battalion has been laid to rest with the grandeur he so desperately deserved. He has been finally laid to rest with the grandeur that so many of the rangatiratanga he was alongside in the 28th tried so desperately to avoid. He lived his life with a great strength and courage, never wanting to steal the limelight from the achievements of his battalion. He was quoted as saying, \u201CThe lowest of the low, a private\u2014that\u2019s me, a non-entity.\u201D He wanted all the honours that were offered to him to go back to his brothers, the men that he fought alongside.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d7b1e3b6fae744f19867175d7757ad7c\u0022\u003ET\u0101 Robert \u201CBom\u201D Gillies was a national treasure for all of us to celebrate, and he will be greatly missed. He was first awarded the Order of Merit by the Italian Government in 2019, which is our country\u2019s equivalent of a knighthood. He rejected multiple offers of a knighthood here in New Zealand and he was adamant that he would not accept those recognitions for himself. As previously mentioned, he would only accept them for the sacrifices known to all his brothers\u2014those sacrifices made by the men that he served alongside. The M\u0101ori Battalion made together those kinds of sacrifices. He served in Northern Africa and Italy during World War II in B Company from 1942 to 1945.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d7b1e3b6fae744f19867175d7757ad7c\u0022\u003EHe was a great man, a loving man, a loving husband, and a dedicated koro. He was a living link to our time\u2014a time that, on reflection, we look at the trials and tribulations of connecting all New Zealanders with the difficulty of reconciling what war looked like in their lives. He faced the many challenges when returning home as a vocal advocate for both veterans\u2019 rights and recognition of M\u0101ori and the M\u0101ori Battalion soldiers. He was the last standing member of the great M\u0101ori Battalion. He believed we all had a duty in ensuring the legacy of the M\u0101ori Battalion endured, and he will forever be remembered as a taonga, a national treasure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe1b24cd31f1431db33ab8cf9f1f46b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe1b24cd31f1431db33ab8cf9f1f46b5\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E E kara, e T\u0101, kua tangi te t\u0113tere mutunga m\u014Du. Kua pak\u016B te p\u016B mutunga m\u014Du. Kua rangona te tangi a te r\u016Br\u016B, a te koukou m\u014Du. Hoki ai ki te tini, ki te rahi, ki ng\u0101 hoa n\u0101 r\u0101tou te marae o T\u016Bmatauenga i t\u016B. Ko r\u0101tou i kite i te toto e maringi ana. Ko r\u0101tou i kite i te taot\u016Btanga. Ko r\u0101tou noki i whakamahue i w\u0101 r\u0101tou hoa ki whenua k\u0113, mokemoke ai, okioki ai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira, ng\u0101kau nui, whakaiti, h\u016Bm\u0101rire, tangata ng\u016B. Kua omakia e koe te omanga roa. Kua whawhaitia e koe te whawhai pai. Kua pau t\u014D w\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EWaiho ko t\u014D atarangi hei m\u0101takitaki, hei k\u014Drerotanga m\u0101 m\u0101tou me \u0101 m\u0101tou mokopuna tamariki, kei rite koe ki te rau e puhia ana e te matangi, ka ngaro, ka ngaro. Kahore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EWaiho ko ng\u0101 mahi i oti i a koe e rite ki te tauira hei amohanga, hei waha m\u0101 ng\u0101 uri whakatupu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira e moe, e moe, moe oti atu e. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E[Dear friend, Sir, the final bugle has sounded for you. The last firearm has been fired for you. The song of the morepork, of the owl, for you has been heard. Return to the many, to the multitudes, to your companions who established the marae of T\u016Bmatauenga. They who saw blood being spilt. They who saw dire injury. And they who left their friends behind in foreign lands, lonely in their resting places. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EAnd so, enthusiastic, humble, gentle, a man of few words. You have run the long run. You have fought the good fight. Your time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003ELeave your shadow for us to see, and to speak about with our grandchildren and children so that you are not like a leaf blown by the wind, gone and lost. Never. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003ELeave your endeavours that you achieved to be like an example to be carried by your descendants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EAnd so, sleep, rest in peace always.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EI make a few brief remarks to support mostly what has already been said\u2014a man who saw genuine action. A man who never sought to be the last surviving member of that magisterial row of soldiers. A man who said, \u201CI\u2019m only a private. I am no Charles Bennett, leader of the M\u0101ori Battalion. I am no Haane Manahi, denied the Victoria Cross despite the best efforts of earlier Governments\u2014both powerful leaders from Te Arawa tribe. I am no Te Okanga Huata. I am no W\u012B Te Tau Huata, two leading lights of the Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu tribe, who saw service during the Second World War.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003ESo we acknowledge what he represents and he embodied, and we offer prayers and aroha to his wh\u0101nau as they move forward without the presence of their matua and their tupuna. T\u0101 \u201CBom\u201D, we Kiwis salute you for the ethic of service that you embodied. Haere atu r\u0101. [Rest in peace.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7c07525d9b24c2eb8f4fd1e5f77a5cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7c07525d9b24c2eb8f4fd1e5f77a5cd\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. Te tai r\u0101, e pari ana te tai ki \u2018hea? E pari ana te tai he kau\u2019eke, he kaum\u0101tua. He tai w\u2019akarewa koe ki te tonga, ki te ao wairua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003ETe m\u014Dtoi o Ng\u0101ti W\u2019akaue me Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu, e T\u0101 Robert \u201CBom\u201D Gillies, e kore e warewaretia, e koro, te m\u014Drehu o te kait\u0101 o Te Hokowhitu Toa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EKa maumahara tonu t\u0101tou ki a r\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. The tide there, the tide rises where? The tide rises, the seniors, the elders. You are a tide that flows to the South, to the spiritual world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EThe cherished one of Ng\u0101ti W\u2019akaue and Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu, Sir Robert \u201CBom\u201D Gillies, you will not be forgotten, Sir, the survivor of the great M\u0101ori Battalion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EWe will remember them.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an honour on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori to stand here in recognition of T\u0101 Bom. We hold the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion in the absolute highest regard. I tautoko all the mihi, all the wisdom, all the knowledge shared about T\u0101 Bom, but also share and reflect on the unimaginable loss and violence that he witnessed and still returned humble, experienced and lived, and to share that medium on platforms that never existed in his youth. For 82\u00A0years, from 17 years to 99, T\u0101 Bom shared with us the humility and the cost of citizenship. He was staunch in fighting and advocating for fairness, for recognition of those he saw fall and those he hasn\u2019t seen yet fall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EMatua Bom\u2014T\u0101 Bom\u2014paid the cost of citizenship. He actually shared recently, \u201Chad I known as much as I know now, I would have stayed home. \u2026 We lost those fellas for nothing. We\u2019re no better off. We are still fighting for a place in our country.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EI\u2019m a preacher and a supporter of passiveness. It\u2019s a deliberate commitment to entering the battle in a posture of aroha and peace, and it\u2019s my dearest hope that the falling of our T\u0101, the falling of the last standing soldier, isn\u2019t for nothing, but that we remember our place and the lessons that he shared with everyone\u2014rangatahi, tamariki\u2014and that we work harder in our leadership to pay respect to his legacy and to pay respect to the many 3,600 men who enlisted in the 28th M\u0101ori Battalion during World War II. We remember the strength and the resilience of not only them but the loss and the impact on their wh\u0101nau and their communities, and we work better and harder in valuing the cost of citizenship from the M\u0101ori perspective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EWe pay homage to those today and we carry the wairua of our t\u016Bpuna like T\u0101 Bom, who have paved the way for our mana Motuhake and our absolute desire for kotahitanga, which is what we see in the h\u012Bkoi today. N\u014D reira i te \u0101huatanga, e te rangatira, e te ika a Whiro o Te Hokowhitu a T\u016B, e moe, e oki. E te m\u0101rire m\u0101rie e o te Atua, moe mai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E[And so in this circumstance, noble leader, veteran of the M\u0101ori Battalion, sleep well, take your rest. To the truly peaceful one of God, rest in peace.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cfe25e3d447c40a4a5c6a0d0c5f7f259\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002278972c2c55784685bf1c4ce8ab5a7514\u0022\u003EDefence Act 1990\u2014Authorisations Made Under Section 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u0022a16ad6ea6ee54a5da12a54e06e0394bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a16ad6ea6ee54a5da12a54e06e0394bb\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wish to make a ministerial statement about authorisations made under section 9 of the Defence Act 1990. The ministerial statement is made under Standing Order 364 in relation to the use of the armed forces to perform a public service in connection with an industrial dispute. Section 9 of the Defence Act 1990 states that I, as Minister of Defence, need to inform the House that this authority has been given and why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003EOn 5 November, the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) received an official notice from the New Zealand Public Service Association that strike action will take place from 6 November to 31\u00A0January. Security guard services and firefighting services are among the key areas impacted by the strike action. As a result, and to ensure our defence areas are kept secure and safe, I have authorised the use of appropriately trained members of the armed forces to provide security guard services at a number of NZDF sites, and for appropriately trained members of the armed forces to provide aircraft rescue, firefighting service at Base Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003EIt is in the public interest that security of defence areas can be maintained throughout the industrial dispute, to ensure public safety and national security. Likewise, it is important that firefighting services are continued throughout the industrial dispute to ensure the preservation of life and the protection of infrastructure and assets. My approval of this matter was provided to the Chief of Defence Force on 5 November, and I have tabled those letters in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003EThe current industrial action dispute is an operational matter for the New Zealand Defence Force and I have full faith in the Chief of Defence Force and the wider New Zealand Defence Force leadership team to make the right decisions in the current fiscal environment. These are hard decisions and are not made lightly. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u00224329743f13474da7aa1ddc764d0134c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224329743f13474da7aa1ddc764d0134c9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. The New Zealand Labour Party supports the right of all private and public sector workers, including Defence Force civilian staff, to seek meaningful and reasonable pay increases. Civilian staff work in important roles, as the Minister of Defence has said, across our Defence Force, including for firefighting and security services for military bases and the likes of Defence House and Pipitea House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EInvoking section 9(2) of the Defence Act is unusual and should only occur in exceptional circumstances. In the opinion of the New Zealand Labour Party, the circumstances we are facing here today are of the Government\u2019s making. They chose to underfund parts of the Defence budget, which resulted in the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) offering nothing of substance to civilian workers. It will not surprise many New Zealanders that faced with an offer of zero increase, they chose to instead issue a strike notice. Rather than addressing the root cause of this strike by enabling the New Zealand Defence Force to make a realistic offer to civilian staff, the Minister has instead escalated this dispute by invoking section 9(2) of the Defence Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThis must be worsening the capacity problem within the NZDF. The NZDF are down at least 1,200 staff and, of course, are dealing with the sinking of the HMNZS Manawanui. Labour encourages the Government to financially support the NZDF to enable them to go back to the bargaining table with a real offer in order to avoid the long-term deployment of Defence Force members to tasks that are not part of their core roles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EI have a number of brief questions for the Minister, the first of which is: is it correct that the wage offer made prior to the strike notice was zero, and, if so, is the Minister able to inform the House of any prior instance of section 9(2) of the Defence Act having been utilised after a zero offer was made, leading to strike action? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc00e148d95548ceb971648780a01124\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc00e148d95548ceb971648780a01124\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you. I note the comments made by the Hon David Parker. The Defence Force was massively underfunded and massively under stress when we became the Government. We were able to secure, despite the very difficult fiscal circumstances, well over $450 million extra of operating costs in the Budget just passed. I am appalled that the former Minister does not understand what a shocking state we were left with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003EWhat I can say is that the Defence Force has been able to cut the massive attrition rates it has had. It is clear that this is an industrial dispute. The Defence Force is taking full responsibility to be able to deal with this situation. I will never leave Defence to be defenceless, like that previous Government did. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022de3372a696d34de9924b4be2bc1e5877\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de3372a696d34de9924b4be2bc1e5877\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. The structures surrounding ministerial statements are quite clear, and Speaker\u2019s ruling 150/1 clearly states that a Minister\u2019s responsibility when asked a question is to address that question. It is not an opportunity to make another speech or to make a political comment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022e5499974c38741e19e3723b6d9d9ed79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e5499974c38741e19e3723b6d9d9ed79\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is true, but that was a very politically motivated question, with all due respect, and I think it would be hard to say that the question was not addressed, given that it was funding that was mentioned straight up in the start of the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0b17c32cf5a4937b64dfc0e2efe9a4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0b17c32cf5a4937b64dfc0e2efe9a4c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I ask again whether the Minister can inform the House as to whether there is any prior instance where this section has been used in the light of a strike notice after a zero percent wage offer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u00228d9695590ac9429f9af1bb55c8a27057\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d9695590ac9429f9af1bb55c8a27057\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I\u2019m not responsible for what that previous Government might have done with its resources or what was done under previous Ministers. What I can say is that I\u2019ve been the Minister for a year and I have not had to use this power before, but I am certainly doing it now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3de14378acb4aeb97f71345d61f2da0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3de14378acb4aeb97f71345d61f2da0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Has the Minister been advised by the Chief of Defence or the State Services Commission when the last wage increase was received by these workers and what the effect of inflation since has been in terms of their real wages?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u0022d27ff6964de44adb98704a551b1ee751\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d27ff6964de44adb98704a551b1ee751\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E No, I have not been informed of that, but I can say that I\u2019m happy to say that after some excellent work done by the Minister of Finance, the inflation rate is dropping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u0022209047099904400dba2e01f52da0f41f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022209047099904400dba2e01f52da0f41f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Are any of the roles that the New Zealand Defence Force will be filling vacancies or the consequence of voluntary redundancies, or are they all as a consequence of the strike notice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u002260097b33c16d4441800edc4d2eb2fe93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260097b33c16d4441800edc4d2eb2fe93\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I don\u2019t have the full details of who is on strike, but I can say that it\u2019s hard for people to be on strike if they\u2019ve already made themselves redundant. I\u2019d expect that they will all be people who are currently employed by Defence Force doing valuable work, but it is work that needs to be done. Whether it\u2019s by people who are civilians or it\u2019s people in uniform, it will be done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u00226c0b53470dfc454a8090790586ffcc84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c0b53470dfc454a8090790586ffcc84\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Supplementary\u2014it\u2019s probably not a supplementary, is it, sir? Another question to the Minister, if I may, sir, is: has the Minister sought any advice\u00A0from the State Services Commission as to whether the negotiations with the civilian workforce are proceeding in a manner that the State Services Commission would have thought is normal?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u002216b2fa17740e45feb0e8b3e055a54ecd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216b2fa17740e45feb0e8b3e055a54ecd\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E No. It\u2019s now the Public Service Commission and, no, this is an operational matter. I have full confidence in the Chief of the Defence Force and his leadership team. I expect them to get on with their job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u0022640397d1f801449da241487245d4de17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022640397d1f801449da241487245d4de17\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Is the Minister confident that she has followed all of the relevant provisions in the Employment Relations Act on when and how employers can replace striking workers when she invokes section 9(2) of the Defence Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u002276e52c46ccda465885664b53b1c3c708\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276e52c46ccda465885664b53b1c3c708\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I\u2019m fully aware that we have followed the law. In fact, I\u2019ve had advice on that and, as one would expect, I have read my advice and taken it on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u0022b20f3b5db02d420ca7824272122beef1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b20f3b5db02d420ca7824272122beef1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Is she surprised that the workers issued a strike notice after a zero percent wage increase?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd7cb29066404a9c8c618af87b724b7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd7cb29066404a9c8c618af87b724b7c\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s not for me to be surprised or not. It\u2019s simply a fact, and my job is to make sure that Defence is not left defenceless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c82132f70cb84b74b36d7d61568acf77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c82132f70cb84b74b36d7d61568acf77\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I echo the comments from the previous speaker, the Hon David Parker, in relation to just how extraordinary the circumstances we\u2019re in are. Using armed forces for civilian functions is a significant decision and should not be taken lightly and it requires adequate scrutiny. As has been noted, we want to reflect and put this into context that this is coming from civilians that have been offered a pay cut, effectively, because if you\u2019re offered a zero\u00A0percent increase and you put that and match it with inflation, you\u2019re, effectively, asking civilian staff to perform their same duties with less resources in real time, because of inflationary pressures on things like housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EWe echo the comments from the PSA\u2014I note from Duane Leo, the national secretary for the Public Service Association Te P\u016Bkenga Here Tikanga Mahi\u2014\u201CThe zero wage increase NZDF tabled in bargaining is insulting to all civilian workers, so our members are left with no choice but show the depth of their feelings by taking this action\u201D. I think the life-saving and critical role that the civilian staff play has already been reflected in the Minister\u2019s comment. She referred to how the civilian staff had a role in the preservation of life, and the fact that these workers have to be replaced by someone else shows the importance of the mahi that they do, particularly in responding to emergencies. I hope we can all value the work that civilian workers do but also understand why they would have taken this sort of action and why they feel so insulted in doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI also want to contextualise that while the Minister may have noted that this is an operational issue, it cannot be separated from decisions that the executive has taken in terms of how they choose to resource Public Service entities, because, at the end of the day, those operational issues play out reflecting the austerity politics or otherwise that we\u2019re seeing right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EMy first question to the Minister is whether she has sought any alternative solutions that did not include using armed forces personnel to cover the striking civilian defence workers. I\u2019m asking relating to whether she has sought any advice or whether she considered any other options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5ab1d8ab2954d81b844d992e1a68e12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5ab1d8ab2954d81b844d992e1a68e12\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you for the question. I\u2019m pleased that the member\u2019s clearly going to support any increase in the Defence budget. It\u2019s really important that this work is done. We\u2019re talking about firefighting around air crew. I\u2019m not ever going to say, \u201CLet\u2019s get a few casuals in.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very important for people to understand and the House to understand that the New Zealand Defence Force has trained firefighters. Some people will be very aware that they actually assisted, recently, from Burnham Military Camp for the Port Hills fires. They are fully trained people, including at Linton as well. When it comes to security guards, I think that they can do that work very well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003EThe point is that we cannot simply not have these jobs undertaken; they are critical to the safety of the New Zealand Defence Force. Also, I\u2019m not going to ever say, \u201CBring planes in without firefighters being there.\u201D That would be totally irresponsible. Actually, this work has to be done. We\u2019ve done what we can do and that is to be able to fill the roles with suitably qualified people who are otherwise in uniform. I note that there\u2019s going to be unanimous support for any increases in the Defence budget from the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c0a0b2dbc78f427180ecb1dc9875a046\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c0a0b2dbc78f427180ecb1dc9875a046\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m just going to reflect on the answer and note that I think the Minister\u2019s comments talk about the disconnect between how we value our public servant workers and then how they\u2019re resourced. Just reflecting on those comments, I didn\u2019t really feel like I got a question in, so I\u2019m going to ask again and then ask my second question about whether she sought any alternative solutions and whether she was presented with options, and, if so, what were those options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EMy second question is: what are the implications in regards to section 97 of the Employment Relations Act around performance of duties of striking or locked-out employees, in particular section 97(3)(c), which means that this is only permitted if employees agree to perform the work? How does this work for Defence Force personnel, who have limited ability to refuse orders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6bc970d9da54985a10fac3b003d1e82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6bc970d9da54985a10fac3b003d1e82\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Sir, Speaker\u2019s rulings 150/1-3 are very clear. This is an announcement that pertains to the security role that military personnel are playing. It\u2019s got nothing to do with the ebb and flow of politics around the rights of workers, equity, and labour. That question should be ruled out of place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002266bf17b8301d43949eb776d4c2f57fd0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266bf17b8301d43949eb776d4c2f57fd0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s not a question as such; it\u2019s an exchange that\u2019s permitted under Standing Orders between a Minister making a ministerial statement and those representatives of parties in the House who are seeking greater clarification of what is behind that statement. That is perfectly reasonable, but I do take your point that once you get into some of the extremely detailed aspects of the question that has just been asked, it does go a little bit beyond the purpose of the motion itself, but the Minister may choose to respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u00223133cac8a74749ebae94c50eec452fdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223133cac8a74749ebae94c50eec452fdb\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Look, I\u2019ll deal with the\u00A0second question first, which was asking for a legal opinion. That\u2019s not my role in this\u00A0House. The member should ask somebody that he wishes to, but that\u2019s not what I do\u00A0here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003EThe first question was about advice. Well, of course, I have full advice from the Defence Force and they have their own legal team as well. This action is not taken lightly, but I cannot leave pilots bringing in planes and others unprotected should there be a need to have firefighters, and I cannot leave our bases un-crewed at the security gates because people are having morning tea or afternoon tea and are choosing when they take that. It is simply not acceptable. This is too important to be left to somebody hopefully coming back from morning tea break.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5cde83b4488492e818cd4be212df743\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5cde83b4488492e818cd4be212df743\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Is it her view that budgetary decisions have led us to this debate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1aa394be72b4e23afdc0f685ab802dc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the problem you\u2019ve got there is that if this is because of a budgetary decision, that would be an operational matter for Defence. You need to confine your questions to the ministerial statement, which is about the notices that have been issued as of today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e92ff5fae856441e9cea70bdb4b129b5\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s exactly what I\u2019m asking\u2014I\u2019m asking whether previous\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226d0f19c8fa343e7b46bd200ca3854db\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll tell you what: say it more clearly. Don\u2019t say it in a way that confuses poor souls like me. Make it very, very clear, please, that your question is directly related to the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022feccbecba4ec45dfbd8319b8b4198bd6\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: What actions is she taking to ensure that we don\u2019t find ourselves having to discuss this ministerial statement again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u00222f90aaa6da6047afb76c30a00383396e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f90aaa6da6047afb76c30a00383396e\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it\u2019s an operational matter, of course, for the Chief of Defence Force. But I\u2019d say, too, that I\u2019m very pleased that at the last Budget\u2014which the member did not support\u2014Defence was able to get close to half a billion dollars for operational costs. Everybody understands that we live in a really difficult world and Defence cannot allow their bases to not have security at the gates or for their planes and others to operate without fire crew. We wouldn\u2019t do it for civilian airplanes; why should we do it for Defence airplanes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6d622a96b3c4d029d37b3c27a76e719\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6d622a96b3c4d029d37b3c27a76e719\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I hadn\u2019t intended to quiz the Minister on this, but as I sat and listened to the debate, I couldn\u2019t help but wonder at Opposition members who, until recently, were part of a Government that put half the New Zealand Defence Force as de facto guards of hotel rooms for two years while the other half were lost to attrition, who drove Defence Force capability into the ground while inflation went through the roof and they crashed the economy, and are now trying to play politics out of this difficult circumstance. This Government, by putting half a billion into Defence this year, is doing everything it can to fix the problem. I wasn\u2019t going to make a contribution, but that just came to my mind. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e6fd5e3f28a4e5db36f6620933daf42\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not actually sure there was a question\u2014that was a contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u0022553810f3813742df85ef6dc180083956\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022553810f3813742df85ef6dc180083956\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence): \u003C/span\u003EI found a question in there, and, of course, the answer is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eae29fa64dc44d693e60bab38ea3de3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll tell you what\u2014[Interruption] Does the Minister now wish to make a reply to all the statements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222879ae88cb9e40348560ed787b2eeb7c\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, yes, thank you\u2014yes, thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I appreciate the contributions in the House. I also particularly liked that last contribution, I have to say\u2014that was very apt. The point is that Governments, successive Governments, have asked Defence to do all sorts of jobs, some of which have not been to Defence\u2019s liking. Whether it\u2019s COVID hotels, managed isolation and quarantine hotels, or whether it\u2019s occasionally something like a prison situation, Defence are there to defend this country and\u00A0I am not, as the Minister of Defence, ever going to say I don\u2019t care if there\u2019s no fire crew when an Air Force plane is landing. I expect the same quality of service and the same rights that anyone else would expect when they\u2019re flying in on a plane into Wellington out of Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225d660b46ee7045d18a0eec744621903c\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7a655cb11de424c9c6cb13eaaa64c98\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022766352c6d9814398ad45b66c5dd2f9b0\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u002208dd056e562f4f8cb0387b6daaaf54a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208dd056e562f4f8cb0387b6daaaf54a7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022 data-id=\u00225a18c9e017934f6ea68358f93efeb203\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a18c9e017934f6ea68358f93efeb203\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do, especially our efforts to restore law and order, ensuring that Kiwis feel safe in their homes, their businesses, and in their community. As part of that objective, on Sunday the Government announced that legislation will be introduced this year, making stalking illegal, with a maximum penalty of up to five years in prison. The new offence comes as a part of a wider package of changes to actually keep Kiwis safe, including a change to prevent those convicted of a stalking offence from holding a firearms licence, and a recognition of the Family Violence Act that stalking is a form of psychological violence. Our message is very simple: if you are perpetrating a culture of fear in your community\u2014whether that\u2019s breaking into a shop or stalking and intimidating someone\u2014we are coming after you. This is a Government focused on restoring law and order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022861923ef13564a2ab1e461e6c61b8462\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Waitangi Tribunal that, if enacted, the Treaty principles bill would \u201Cbe the worst, most comprehensive breach of the Treaty in modern times.\u201D, and that if it isn\u2019t repealed it would constitute the \u201Cend of the Treaty\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be247f4540ca4d32b639ba3b47041806\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Unless Opposition parties support the bill, it won\u2019t be enacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022863366ea5feb47a9ac0c1b9af523f9f0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I didn\u2019t ask the Prime Minister whether or not the Opposition parties were going to support the bill. I asked him whether he agreed with the Waitangi Tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b046cf97513d4a84b193405f13f2da99\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You did. You also asked him to comment on the circumstances that might\u00A0exist if the bill were passed. I think for that reason the question\u2019s certainly been addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224edbe376daf2469fa323bb936b268b76\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is he aware that the Waitangi Tribunal has determined that principle 2, as contained in the bill, would \u201Cabrogate rights of M\u0101ori that article 2 guaranteed and protected, and revoke the promises and guarantees the Queen made to M\u0101ori in 1840.\u201D, and that principle 3, as contained in the bill, \u201Cbears no resemblance to the texts and meaning of article 3.\u201D; if so, how can he support the bill in good conscience?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022924a3c3714aa48818a3e1a8422375138\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I explained to the member last week, we are supporting the bill through first reading. But the Government parties in the coalition are free not to support it after that point in time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c17c536bb0cc4cad8144fe1472d93baf\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason why his Ministers have consistently sought to undermine the Waitangi Tribunal without any censure from him, even calling for its disestablishment, because the tribunal has brought attention to the profoundly negative impacts the Treaty principles bill is having on the Crown\u2019s relationship with M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caca4828b8b24410a9d82151e65865e0\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I\u2019d say to that member is that many commentators have said in a post-Treaty settlement world it\u2019s quite a legitimate question to ask what the role of the Waitangi Tribunal is going forward. That is something that we as a coalition Government will explore in due course.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff303c4f8cb2490fbcd71a855c86c1da\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How can he claim that the National Party\u2019s support of the bill ending before the second reading will address the widespread concerns, when the mere introduction of the bill will, according to the Waitangi Tribunal, \u201Cprejudice M\u0101ori\u201D and there is a risk that the select committee process will be hijacked by racists and purveyors of misinformation for six months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e8bfceaa5534739933cc55a9c6ec049\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I disagree with the characterisation of that question. As I explained to the member last week, we live in an MMP world. Parties in this Parliament have different views and different constituents they represent here in Parliament. We didn\u2019t get what we wanted; the ACT Party didn\u2019t get what they wanted. We came to a sensible compromise. We\u2019re supporting it at first reading, not beyond that. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdd0979283a14efb839e2391f8cbd834\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before the member goes into his next question, I just remind the House that a sort of general barrage is not acceptable and that all questions are heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022393762af6e124e93a77f4640709ab426\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: What responsibility does he take as Prime Minister for the fact that, as former National Minister Christopher Finlayson has said, \u201Cthere is too much division and hurt in New Zealand caused by, among other things, pernicious nonsense like the Treaty Principles Bill.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222006b6652968490cb0154a7c0fd5ca04\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t take responsibility for Chris Finlayson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9c3418a2858415192693e6727f2911b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: When he told New Zealanders before the election that he thought the Treaty principles bill was divisive and that National would not support it, why didn\u2019t he tell them that commitment was something he was willing to trade away in coalition negotiations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc7ddf2ca7ad4dd9b8c18ee0c53dc11e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019re not supporting the bill into law; we\u2019re not supporting the bill out to a national referendum. We\u2019ve been very clear about that from the get-go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df0148b4a2484a8abb89933a6c61cebd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3b60cb01e554f7b95e55e4977691fda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3b60cb01e554f7b95e55e4977691fda\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u002206f0f06494a64be7a781d14bf0f45cfd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206f0f06494a64be7a781d14bf0f45cfd\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Every fortnight, on its website, Treasury publishes a summary of economic data and events. The most recent of these contains a number of data points that suggest the New Zealand economy is recovering after a long recession. The number of building consents is beginning to rise. New Zealand\u2019s goods export prices, particularly dairy, are continuing to climb. On Monday\u2014and Grant McCallum was pleased to tell me all about it\u2014Fonterra lifted its forecast milk price from a mid-point of $9 a kilogram to $9.50, and business confidence, firms\u2019 expected activity, and employment intentions have all risen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227253278cdbaf4ca1b7533409ad806e9d\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: When will the next Treasury forecasts be released?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a9025b4263c4327adf62677769c40fb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Treasury will release a full set of economic and fiscal forecasts in the half-year update on 17 December. I expect those forecasts will show a strengthening economy, lower interest rates, and reducing unemployment over the next few years. That\u2019s not just me; that\u2019s what almost all economic commentators anticipate. What will also be of interest, though, is how the economic and fiscal forecasts compare to previous expectations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217c15682fcb44d5383a539bf13b67417\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: How have the economic forecasts changed in recent years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201f168f752a54b629a4720d40caa89f6\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Economic forecasts have generally changed for the worse over successive updates, as it became clear that the current recession started earlier, was deeper, and persisted for longer than was earlier understood. With the benefit of hindsight, earlier forecasts attributed too much weight to an apparent pick-up in productivity over the COVID period. This pick-up proved to be illusory. Earlier forecasts were therefore too optimistic. So, incrementally, Treasury has been lowering its assumptions around labour productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6f5538f2b004dcda9caaad1190e9e46\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: How have these economic forecasts flowed through to the fiscal forecasts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8fc0666964c4b7b81d9f8d38d451215\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Economic forecasts flow through to the fiscal forecasts in several ways, especially through the impact of nominal GDP on tax revenue, which subsequently impacts on debt and the operating balance. Steadily deteriorating economic forecasts, plus some big spending increases in Budgets 2022 and 2023 have led to a series of downgrades in the fiscal forecasts. For example, since the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update 2021, every forecast for the return to operating balance before gains and losses surplus\u00A0has been revised downwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f7bb032e2a14ed4806f59fe464d7836\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022 data-id=\u0022c885520e73114db898a8f92f4a894699\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c885520e73114db898a8f92f4a894699\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Justice: What recent statements has he seen about the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6a29a44fd3444e89c3fd92dd0426969\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6a29a44fd3444e89c3fd92dd0426969\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Many and varied but overwhelmingly positive. To take just three that I received in the hour leading up to question time: \u201CI never thought I\u2019d see a politician take on the Treaty grift in my lifetime, especially not a M\u0101ori politician. I support redress in the tribunal but I know you\u2019re right\u00A0to wonder if the expansion of the organs of State for us becomes more a crutch than\u00A0a\u00A0helping hand. It\u2019s patronising to hear TPM argue we need special treatment to\u00A0compete. I worry the next generation might hear that and start believing it. Kia kaha, bro.\u201D Another\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236bc592a3e514a8f9d55061066baa69d\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. There\u2019s misrepresentation of our views\u2014point 111. And also the reference to us\u2014I think the Minister has misinterpreted the quote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e10de2e29faf4c3e8f0aa66cffb33b3b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: How has that happened?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289a5e32701da464ca4c874f9c66681f9\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Because he\u2019s got it wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3eb2bcfb13a4a5a99e9e5d8884f00e8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is a debating point, not a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf6b5a4af2184601bbcd77932ef4a1cf\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. If the Minister is going to use \u201CTPM\u201D in his\u00A0excuse, then the quote should be correct; otherwise, he\u2019s misrepresenting us in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022731afa6742f4461ab41ad6949b81a94e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There are avenues open to you if there has been misrepresentation. It\u2019s not something I can rule on at the present time\u2014or in the present time. The Hon David Seymour\u2014who is going to be brief with his answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226094c50fe4cb4313b6119827b1b49ca1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, since there\u2019s such interest, I can share more of\u00A0that statement. \u201CIt\u2019s perhaps even more frustrating to see them using State finances funnelled through Te Wh\u0101nau o Waipareira to promote messaging that aims to destabilise the\u00A0State by rewriting\u2014or, as they\u2019d call it, reimagining\u2014what our founding document actually says.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f64eb8060bb4d77be609dd10bd92343\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. So, first of all, there were two references made there\u2014again, misrepresented\u2014and there is an assumption from that Minister that they have used Government funds that cannot be validated. We should not be having those accusations in the House; it\u2019s grossly misrepresentative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b19d3a7e174d5a983ee6b6c4129bd8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That point is correct. It\u2019s also inappropriate to use question time to attack other parties or people outside of the House. I ask the Hon David Seymour to confine his answers to the substance of the question that was asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b07d7f82787c46f791ca77aa1e7014d8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Further statements I\u2019ve seen just in that hour leading up to question time: \u201CI hope this message finds you well. I\u2019m a year 11 student and I wanted to reach out to express my appreciation for your work on the recent bill. As a young New Zealander, I find it encouraging to see efforts like yours that support positive dialogue around the Treaty of Waitangi.\u201D And, finally, just in that short time: \u201CKeep up the great work, David. There is enormous tacit support for your Treaty principles bill (people feel they can\u2019t speak up, though).\u201D That is just a small selection of recent statements I\u2019ve seen and they\u2019re part of a theme. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022319aa9d8f3b148778501215624deb9cb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait for the House to calm itself down. I can\u2019t be expected to judge the content of an answer within the rules of the Standing Orders when there is so much other noise going on in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e35e70c5f8de46b6b13e2563e380e3c7\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: What statements has he seen from school principals opposing the Treaty principles bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b0e37afdc5647cb8d17a0885abe4412\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen statements from school principals to their community, urging people to oppose the Treaty principles bill and to even be absent from school to participate in h\u012Bkoi activations. I can\u2019t miss the opportunity to say to those principals that they have a duty to adhere to political neutrality, and there is nothing in the Treaty principles bill that will disadvantage any student even one iota. However, students are disadvantaged by missing school. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229799cbd3864b47a3a9968cd632fc851e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All right. That\u2019s enough. We\u2019ll hear the rest of this question in silence\u2014answers to questions in silence. I\u2019ve told the House many times: no barrage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022210d99d09c854cc49f6432bd01855006\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you, Mr Speaker. I just make the point, while you were standing, that while the Treaty principles bill will not disadvantage one young person in this country, missing out on education because they\u2019re not at school or because their school leadership team is misfocused\u2014i.e., not focused on reading and writing and mathematics and science and the skills that allow them to access the knowledge of the world\u2014that does disadvantage students.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae2b0de0dda14cf5a6d55e710709b408\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I have also repeatedly suggested that Ministers keep their answers as concise as the questions themselves. I\u2019d ask all Ministers to reflect on that and to respond to that today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ae3095e848f4e408cd1faed30e9e8d3\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Treaty principles bill affect M\u0101ori language and culture?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2a388d76c444cffb2b41077715fe3c9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: K\u0101hore\u2014or no. As I said at Waitangi last year, one of my goals is ki a maimoatia te reo me te ahurea M\u0101ori\u2014that is, to cherish the M\u0101ori language and culture. The Treaty principles bill protects the rights of hap\u016B and iwi M\u0101ori as they stood in\u00A01840. It also ensures that those basic rights of tino rangatiratanga and self-determination extend to all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022556fa9ff98f34128a80d7a0c44e4e86d\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Treaty principles bill affect Treaty settlements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d9364c4c651451cb7b516faae388f56\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The Treaty principles bill is very clear that in clause 8 it says it should not be used in interpreting any statute in relation to a Treaty settlement. What I say to people who have these fears or anxieties about the bill\u2014and I know that there are some\u2014or anyone saying \u201CKill the bill\u201D, my advice is to read the bill because you will find such details as that that often show you there\u2019s nothing to worry about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bef21bc98a284774ad904ecc145bbc91\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: With New Zealand First making a stand to not support the bill, at a certain point, and the same with National, doing the same, where does that leave your bill\u2014all alone with you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249dbc8ee8d2a46cb8fd55a9c7d9d08a7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not with me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a5f3d91f8de4b2f92e3bf37a39302fb\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Speaker. I meant with the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dc864df36c647bc913db09bd652f864\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I do know what was intended; I\u2019m sure the Minister does as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a4a92658d847aa91553f0345ce168d\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. What I\u2019d say to the member is that being all alone with me is not that bad! However, that is not where this bill is. This bill is opposed by people who say it won\u2019t go anywhere\u2014desperate, ironically, to stop it going anywhere. And the reason that they want to do that is that they know that even sending this bill to a select committee and having a select committee hearing on it, even if it turns out\u2014and I don\u2019t believe for a moment\u2014it goes no further than that, it will have democratised the debate on the Treaty of Waitangi. It will have ensured that each person gets to have a say. And when I hear people say M\u0101ori haven\u2019t been consulted, well, actually every person will be consulted. Every person will be able to have a view on our founding document. I think that is why so many people are so worried about this bill, because it shows\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257330f2627f2413f9d4a294b30174c30\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Because of the divisiveness\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1527791dccc4b2e812ae419fe0d2810\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that actually everyone else is going to have a say too. And there\u2019s the Green Party member saying, \u201CWhat about the divisiveness?\u201D It hasn\u2019t created any\u00A0divisiveness. What it has done has revealed the divisiveness of people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee5ff911a8934688a529a5d8a9b75abc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, that\u2019s far too long for an answer. So we can use up the time by cutting out questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269a863deb78c40bd8108f331856e7321\u0022\u003EDr Parmjeet Parmar\u003C/span\u003E: What will the Treaty principles bill mean for the rights of New Zealanders and our future as a country?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211f2a423a92349e0a8de96be2c0c3e18\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Most importantly, it will fill in the blanks that this House left in 1975 when it said that there were Treaty principles but failed to define what they were. It will give us a conception of our founding document that is based upon equal rights for all and that, in turn, enables us to solve together the many challenges we face with health and housing and jobs, education and the economy, and that, in short, will allow New Zealanders to overcome our real and tangible challenges with a shared and equal understanding of our citizenship and our rights in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225d5d329be6f44cd9935020db3935d19\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister implying that tino rangatiratanga is derived from K\u0101wanatanga and reducing indigenous rights to the set of ordinary rights?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ae48a41f51c4b5c8a9aeeda414aa0ef\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a very interesting question. I\u2019m cognisant of your requirement to be brief in what is a 184-year debate, but what I make very clear is that under the Treaty principles bill, the rights of hap\u016B and iwi M\u0101ori as of 1840 are protected. However, those are rights that anyone should be able to respect. And, yes, that means the right to look after your language, your culture, to self-determine, to live in the way that you choose. A very good example of that is charter schools. A very good example of that is Wh\u0101nau Ora\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229c6353cc3954d14a43eeb9273bf479e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, yep, good; I think we got the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d4a467e564c4bffbdbb1af6fff1f847\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, please. My question was specific: does the Minister believe that tino rangatiratanga is derived from K\u0101wanatanga? He hasn\u2019t addressed anywhere near the answer, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbb90ac53faa4289b47eb217d30c7592\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Happy to have another go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0d4b5ed63f64dad8ff8a86308883ffa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure the Minister would be happy to have another go, but the point I\u2019d make is that the question was addressed. It may not have been addressed satisfactorily, but it was certainly addressed. We come now to question No. 4\u2014only four?\u2014today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022589cbd15798445b08c5cf6fdbcf5d5a3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m put in a difficult position by the Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori member, who continually says that I don\u2019t have the answer, but you\u2019ve actually ruled that I have addressed the question, and therefore she\u2019s undermining your ruling but you won\u2019t let me give you any further answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a93f9e548a64955bd08a544d5c6eeda\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, look\u2014I\u2019m just cutting the question off, because it\u2019s had plenty of airtime. You have already heard my somewhat exasperation that at 5 past 3 we\u2019re only just getting to question No. 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b500f77a8c9d46d1b1164fa73f9eac35\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022 data-id=\u0022349d4042836c4971b675e5435683a167\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022349d4042836c4971b675e5435683a167\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she agree with Opposition leader Christopher Luxon, who said, \u201CI can tell you we\u2019re going to be straight with the New Zealand people, tell it as it is\u2014the good, the bad and the ugly\u201D; if so, why has the weekly reporting of income support and hardship figures stopped?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca44afa10ef6431190514c2aa55d84e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca44afa10ef6431190514c2aa55d84e2\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Of course. Our Government is committed to having 50,000 fewer people on the jobseeker benefit by 2030. Monthly and quarterly data is a better decision-making tool to achieve this and it\u2019s my intention to continue this reporting. I was advised that weekly reporting was originally produced in response to demand for more timely information as required\u00A0during COVID. That period, of course, has now passed. Like many things, we are simply\u00A0returning to the pre-COVID reporting. We want our department\u2019s resources to be focused on the analysis that we need to get more people into work, not on unnecessary reporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e6ecaf20008476595bfa671ce87ec5a\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Was the weekly reporting cancelled at the request of the Ministry for Social Development and Employment, or at the Minister\u2019s request?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264902791b815401b9328bec261a26f7c\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I had looked at the different reporting mechanisms. The weekly reporting is very volatile and the more detailed analysis that\u2019s provided in the monthly and quarterly report provides us the ability to do what we want to do, which is to support more people into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d38057405fa4738860ffcf4b1d47bfa\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Would the Minister have cancelled weekly reporting had jobseeker numbers been going down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bb80618d91646459a3caa5237977c1a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, weekly reporting was introduced during COVID. We\u2019re not during those times. The weekly reporting wasn\u2019t as accurate\u2014very volatile. We want to make sure we\u2019re using data that is more meaningful in terms of making decisions to actually achieve our Government\u2019s target to reduce the number of people on jobseeker benefit by 50,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a378fb8d2a4271ba9823b4ad9afc29\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Has the weekly reporting been stopped because it shows that jobseeker numbers have risen by over 22,000 since she took office, as unemployment continues to climb to record heights?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220634d53a6bb04c9bad75830a998ee966\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: No. Unfortunately, as the Minister of Finance said, the economic climate that we took over, with a recession that was deeper and longer, has meant that unemployment has continued to rise. Treasury has forecast that, including a year ago, where the numbers have not yet peaked. For every single person that loses their job, I feel for them. Unfortunately, we are dealing with the circumstances we got from the last Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d006f453ef947ada9a97e176e6800c1\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister acknowledge that unemployment figures, or the numbers of people on benefit, are now as high or higher than what they were during the height of the pandemic, and, if so, why does she think that now is the time to stop regular weekly reporting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022758cb90936394e4fa0fc804f4b3b52c9\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, monthly reporting and quarterly reporting provides us the level of analysis that we need to make decisions that actually support us to ensure that we are able to do more to support job seekers into work. What I\u2019m really proud to say is the last quarterly report showed us that despite this very challenging economic time, we had 16,100 people in this quarter exit jobseeker benefit into work\u20142,400 more than the same quarter a year ago. What we\u2019re doing is working. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227336d3f901124a0a928f6f60b2be26e6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Government\u2019s Response to the Royal Commission\u2019s Report into Historical Abuse in State Care and in the Care of Faith-based Institutions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022 data-id=\u0022c826be32759347a29946a11224686e5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c826be32759347a29946a11224686e5d\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau)\u003C/span\u003E to the Lead Coordination Minister for the Government\u2019s Response to the Royal Commission\u2019s Report into Historical Abuse in State Care and in the Care of Faith-based Institutions: Does she agree with the Whanaketia report that \u201CThe State failed to address the ongoing systemic impacts of colonisation that contributed to M\u0101ori being taken into care, in which M\u0101ori experienced abuse and neglect. This includes recognising the inherent mana motuhake of iwi and hap\u016B, structural reform that would have enabled M\u0101ori to exercise rangatiratanga and mana motuhake\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u00222a281c0002ed4ed985d275a78bd70f61\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a281c0002ed4ed985d275a78bd70f61\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Lead Coordination Minister for the Government\u2019s Response to the Royal Commission\u2019s Report into Historical Abuse in State Care and in the Care of Faith-based Institutions):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m advised that this quote is not one of the over 500 findings in the royal commission\u2019s final report. As such, it has not been reviewed or analysed in our work on responding to the royal commission. The royal commission considered hundreds of thousands of pages of evidence. Most of that material is now restricted under the Inquiries Act 2013. As the material that the commission relied on to form this view is not available to the Government, it\u2019s not possible for me to either agree or disagree with the statement. However, as the Prime Minister reflected in his apology yesterday, it is clear that racism was a contributing factor to M\u0101ori tamariki and rangatahi being disproportionately taken into care, where many experienced abuse and neglect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022340ff14a7c294737aab439465592308b\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister agree that repealing section 7AA is doing the complete opposite of addressing the systemic impacts of colonisation and will, therefore, contribute to further abuse and neglect of tamariki M\u0101ori in the State system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261f5c54aea28496db1e664a395f2917f\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Just say no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f56d5ee7cb84d93808e49285ccb2916\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292ca5b9ab17b428b8dce0bf9ed57e7d3\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, I didn\u2019t hear the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a285f902ea44c898063ff9c57d4e182\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But I did. Have you got another question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ffdfc74a644465f81aff2f691e17268\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, all right; I do, yes. When can survivors expect to see a clear time frame for a redress system to be put in place; how much longer will survivors need to wait just to be given a clear time frame for redress at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbb9cb840b8a4dcfbe5a37f5974ec479\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say, look, the primary question is very explicit; the Minister has said that it doesn\u2019t form part of the response that the Government has. It\u2019s a bit hard to see how we now go on to something entirely different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae51e1de33d5491da216afcf20168dfe\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Mr Speaker, from our information, we understand that the first question is in the information. I\u2019m not sure why the Minister doesn\u2019t know or recognise it, but I wouldn\u2019t have put it if I didn\u2019t think that it was valid. But we\u2019re happy to check whether our details are absolutely so. In that regard, taking it to my second question and my third, I was following that flow and referring to section 7AA inside the context of the abuse in care work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225412becfc4ec41d7b64a8b4d2b8454ee\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s fine, but it was the jumping to the compensation aspect that is the difficulty. Do you have a\u2014[Interruption] Why are you standing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deccc6ec7c144e4086696682a4f050cd\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no\u2014I don\u2019t know if there\u2019s much that I can add\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6fae980d9a949bd893e05d637bd4e9e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014well, then don\u2019t bother, because you haven\u2019t taken a point of order. If you\u2019ve got another supplementary, go for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3c689e213f74827ad798a0728015407\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: All right, I do. Does she agree that legislation which seeks to undermine Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the mana motuhake of te iwi M\u0101ori, such as the Treaty Principles Bill and the section 7AA repeal, contributes to the culture of harm described in Whanaketia and goes completely against the spirit of reconciliation and redress of yesterday\u2019s apology?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d38d8e32f25f4f709af50afbf5916281\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I think all of those supplementary questions don\u2019t relate to the specificity of the particular primary, which is in relation to a quote in the report, and are seeking to go outside of that. I think the supplementaries should be following the primary, and I think they are not actually anywhere near where it should be going.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d6cf07bd65448f3a2f9f38af3a5fab2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I know, but you need to be aware that the questions come in and are checked for their validity, etc. Regardless of what answer might be given, the questions come to me for approval on the basis that the authentication of them has been accepted. Once it\u2019s accepted, then questions that might flow from that directly are OK. The last question is most certainly in order. Do you want to ask it again because I think it might be lost in the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022298c0d3ebd7b4cf08a3ed9d732e53609\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, of course; I\u2019m happy to. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does she agree that legislation which seeks to undermine Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the mana motuhake of te iwi M\u0101ori, such as the Treaty Principles Bill and the section 7AA repeal, contributes to the culture of harm described in Whanaketia and goes completely against the spirit of reconciliation and redress of yesterday\u2019s apology?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aebd0fb507a94229b8fd474a3d9760b8\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not responsible for that legislation. I\u2019m the coordinating Minister responsible for the recommendations in the report, of which this is not one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222563b71f207945d5ba834cf45e3b3ebe\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s hard to know where the line is as to who is responsible for which piece of it, hence my question. Again, the question aligns with the primary question. It\u2019s very clear; it\u2019s very specific, and I don\u2019t feel at all\u2014whether that\u2019s been either addressed or understood\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219ef010483594d0ea6d19ed9e01718f8\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9cdd2d2c8eb4b88b12ae20cd5584adf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s a point of order going on. Are you speaking to the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c21486e73244dca5cf7dba8d16113f\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m speaking to the point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6f7a3c407be4533a0b814e1b91a7d32\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right\u2014then just wait till the point of order has been delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225abaeca08d244e9d92e27e946929c928\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. The point of order that she\u2019s making is in relation to when she\u2019s asking questions which are in relation to a whole range of other issues, when the primary question is whether she agrees with a particular quote in a report. She\u2019s asking about other pieces of legislation which are not part of this question nor part of the Minister\u2019s responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aed006c0d5dc45a5a62d70093883b767\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: But it\u2019s hard to get away from the fact that the House took an enormous amount of time yesterday to make a public apology based on the report. To ask a question about some consequential actions and its relation to the apology is not out of order. Ask the question one more time. And if the Minister is not responsible for that, then that would be an answer to the House. But I will want to listen to the question so I can hear the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bc3a8cdda2b487cbcf208803d1ed023\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree the legislation which seeks to undermine Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the mana motuhake of te iwi M\u0101ori, such as the Treaty Principles Bill and the section 7AA repeal, contributes to the culture of harm described in Whanaketia and goes completely against the spirit of reconciliation and redress of yesterday\u2019s apology?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253e479281852403c9dd6f2a6fb22e843\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, I reject the assertion in that question, and, secondly, I\u2019m not the Minister responsible for the legislation that she speaks of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022efc901a19764454f81d490c63e970bdd\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022 data-id=\u00222160d7f06e1147c085fb524cd6eecbe7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222160d7f06e1147c085fb524cd6eecbe7\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: Does she accept that the State\u2019s failures \u201Cto consider or recognise an ao M\u0101ori \u2026 view, tikanga, te reo and m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori\u201D were circumstances that led to abuse; if so, is she confident that the proposal to repeal section 7AA is not a continuation of this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee08d0cd053a46dcb1a092b7163a4cb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee08d0cd053a46dcb1a092b7163a4cb1\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first part of the question, in the context of the findings of the royal commission of inquiry, yes. In answer to the second part of the question, yes, absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290a0df48e9b64724ad494066b74d62e0\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: What empirical evidence can she name to justify the repeal of section 7AA when advice states that keeping it will help strengthen safety policy and guidelines, and Whanaketia found cultural safety to be a requirement of care safety?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252e0a4b794824319ba01cc72a5c55245\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I have repeated this over many occasions that the core reason for looking at section 7AA was to bring clarity to the fact that we need to put the safety and the wellbeing of our young people at the forefront of every decision we\u2019re making when it comes to placements and when it comes to removal of young people in care. So I have thought about the safety and wellbeing of children, and I repeat it over and over again that that should be the first thing we\u2019re thinking about in every decision we make about our young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a891b6078b1346ecb9505dd7cabc2a3d\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Does she believe that repealing section 7AA hinders the Government\u2019s ability to implement Whanaketia recommendations and achieve its vision of holistic redress, which require the Government to partner with M\u0101ori and give effect to Te Tiriti, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b66e092925245d39461dfc37750f81f\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: No. I\u2019ve repeated over and over again that nothing will change when it comes to partnership agreements with hap\u016B and iwi around the country, but I will wait for the select committee to finish their deliberation of this bill and will commit to carefully considering their report once it\u2019s tabled in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244c2f70e6ea74272954a954eacf9d58b\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she removing section 7AA and its requirement for reporting on outcomes and disparities for M\u0101ori when Whanaketia recommends\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c198f780ef5446eaa0c6e907fd6d59c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a moment. Think about your question, because repetition of questions is not generally appreciated by the House. The Minister has answered that. Just think about another way of asking that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8eb6629ac014293aefa29f98288068f\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Why is the Minister removing its requirement for reporting on outcomes and disparities for M\u0101ori when Whanaketia recommends strengthening ethnicity-specific data collection to ensure better-informed decision-making?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228985e819c04d49ba9051b19414461d50\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Whilst I appreciate that question, we have spent years and years going back to when I was dealing with Child, Youth and Family Services over 20\u00A0years ago doing reports. I\u2019m sick of reports that say the same thing over and over again from multiple spaces that take resources away from our young people, when we know what the problem is and we just need to get on with it and deliver for our children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7deb49687b14d1b98a0dfd2c0ccb489\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224643ba2fb36b4379bf5e0a74214610f5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, the Hon David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ef440b782eb4ec381b7af058a880fd4\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ad513e7937e44a492483dfb370e9c84\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019ve got one more to come from here, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ca8a1ecb62e4589866e519d0c20ca14\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she removing section 7AA when Whanaketia states that a minimum safeguard for protecting tamariki in care is ensuring M\u0101ori \u201Care connected to their wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, iwi, whakapapa, whenua, reo, and tikanga\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209f68cde0d474c44a035e29c39a67174\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve repeated this over and over again. Nothing will change when it comes to working with wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi to make sure that they have a voice at the table. But we must make sure that safety and wellbeing are the forefront of all our decision making. If wh\u0101nau is the right place for a young person to be placed, that\u2019s what should happen. But, unfortunately, that\u2019s not always appropriate and we need to make sure that the safety and wellbeing come first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0c3802ac7df43ddb3cc155899679cb7\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the case that not only tamariki M\u0101ori but actually children of all backgrounds value and benefit from their language, their culture, and their family connections, and the removal of section 7AA will not prevent Oranga Tamariki from partnering with a range of organisations, including iwi-based, to achieve just that for each and every child that comes into its care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227098cba514f3417f8726627061e82d45\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, and I was quite humbled by something that was said to me by a staff member of Oranga Tamariki: \u201CEvery kid, or every young person, that comes to the attention of Oranga Tamariki, or is in the care of Oranga Tamariki, has a name. We know their names, and we must base it on their needs and every young person deserves the same level of care and protection no matter what their ancestry is.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fe1aa860293462ca89c7c1c5aaf271b\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think that Whanaketia recommendations were wrong when they said, \u201CTo strengthen ethnicity-specific data-collection to ensure better-informed decision-making\u201D; if not, why is she repealing section 7AA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cdfef4cd83d949469d80519fcef2062b\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I say over and over again: whakapapa, working with wh\u0101nau, hap\u016B, and iwi is important, but the safety and wellbeing must be the first thing we think about in every decision we make about our young people. It\u2019s very important that we make it clear what we\u2019re referring to when we\u2019re referring to children in care\u2014these are children that come to the attention of Oranga Tamariki, often broken, often not been treated with the dignity and respect they should have been, and Oranga Tamariki has to pick up those pieces and make decisions for these young people. We need to make sure that they\u2019re safe in care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202ec32c6f9e141a7b0a945df7af44eb8\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Sir, I would ask that you take some time to reflect on the questions that we\u2019ve just had to endure for the last five minutes. It\u2019s quite clear there is no scope for repetitive questioning going over the same ground all the time, and, more importantly, we\u2019ve suffered enough harassment in terms of that side of the House of that\u00A0Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af0265914af34254ae721a8cc617e8f1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Shane Jones has just raised a point which you yourself raised around repetition of questions, and I wonder whether you could be very clear on that, because it has certainly been the case in the entire time I\u2019ve been in the House that where a member is dissatisfied with an answer they can repeat the basic thrust of a question over and over and over again if they want to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225396accb2bb842fbb038c84ed5093cdd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s true, and I will take a look, and I will come back with a statement to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca61a142c5604d978bb844691cda8918\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u00222ea45305bf2048a38bdb3ca7b8a86345\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ea45305bf2048a38bdb3ca7b8a86345\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: Does he stand by his reported statement that previous National Governments had made good progress on Treaty settlements, and they hoped to restore some of that momentum; if not, why not? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022 data-id=\u00224f5866d3e01f4d8c8d0640400efcca4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f5866d3e01f4d8c8d0640400efcca4a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba0cbf1fa33a47f7888c8f1883c56b48\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How does introducing the Treaty Principles Bill \u201Crestore some of that momentum.\u201D when the bill has been described by iwi leaders as \u201Creckless\u201D, \u201Cdishonourable\u201D, and \u201Ccallous\u201D? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4cefecc18db4048bdab539b6e44ecf3\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m sure there\u2019s a wide variety of views amongst iwi leaders, but there are still plenty who are very keen to make progress on Treaty negotiations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c9c20c2f437c46a6a06b024917eb3620\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Paul Goldsmith that former ACT Party leader and current leader of Hobson\u2019s Pledge, Don Brash, is a \u201Ctrue New Zealand patriot\u201D, and, if so, will this help or hinder the momentum of Treaty settlements? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b9cf02ab5b24650a2f0d70888963386\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure it will make any difference whatsoever, but\u00A0I\u00A0did write a book about that particular fellow 20-odd years ago, and that\u2019s on the record. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adb31aeea0614ac6bc16e9a5025e10f2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, good\u2014let\u2019s come back to relevance to the primary question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f661d4442d9b4f9dba7a30d53b70b98f\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Nicola Willis with regard to the Treaty Principles Bill, who said on Radio New Zealand: \u201CThe debate, I think, can be healthy, but if one party seeks to impose their view on the other without consent, I think that\u2019s dangerous.\u201D, and, if so, will this debate restore some of the momentum of the Treaty settlement process? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242da0ef579934e8cbdc068398bf2590e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think, again, that question is drawing a long bow from Treaty negotiations, which is work which is steadily working its way through the system. Now, it\u2019s true that one year in, I have not yet concluded a settlement with Ng\u0101puhi, and that is challenging work and many Ministers in the past have worked in that way. Ultimately, it requires engagement on both sides, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226abbf0b2182d445eb4db26c0eb0e794a\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: If the debate on the Treaty Principles Bill is considered dangerous, why are he and his Government choosing to ignore all the advice and warnings, and proceeding with a select committee process that is going to be one of the most divisive in Aotearoa\u2019s history? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a7e09d808754c7283601c3da09a3ff8\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, clearly, the other side have woken up this morning and decided to have every question on this particular area today in the House, and so they\u2019re straining to draw different bills into different ministerial responsibilities. In terms of making progress on Treaty settlements, we are very committed to continuing to make progress on those Treaty settlements. It\u2019s been something that, across the House, Governments of all persuasions have worked together towards. We\u2019ve got some progress, and we\u2019ve got more progress yet to make. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a7b71eef320463a866c3ffaaeb681b6\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister aware that the Minister responsible for the Treaty Principles Bill is also the Minister responsible for charter schools, and that that Minister\u2019s own hap\u016B have been in touch with him recently, asking about the possibility of running a kura hourua\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e89383b957ec41898a41b01d4789f079\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f7f62c86caf4c049dba6460b94420b0\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which goes to show that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022045cd99146404f519b72aacb0bb24ffa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288146748a8654fc892340a14aaa9aa59\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I point to Speakers\u2019 ruling 197/6\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290abf2f1d08b4ffab3cb2432acb8b97c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: In relation to what, sorry? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7a60dbbe4a045f28ff6d78de9f64d1c\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: To the supplementary the member to my left just asked. The Speakers\u2019 ruling states, \u201CQuestions commencing \u2018Is the Minister aware\u2019, \u2026 are generally not seeking elucidation but seeking to inject information or propaganda a member wishes to be heard.\u201D, and I definitely think that that supplementary and other supplementaries most definitely fall in line with that Speakers\u2019 ruling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a95c2efdd2664de4afee5b1d9fca9d54\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the supplementary was also very wide of the primary question, as well. But I\u2019m sure the member can bring a question that is in line with the primary\u2014very briefly\u2014to the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221247e95534c64114b8a2d9bbaf9abd33\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Your confidence is well placed, Mr Speaker. In light of the above facts, does it not show that maybe, actually, it is possible to advance some matters while disagreeing on others, and that is how mature people conduct business? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf680b44b6b14fc495b82e957c38c470\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, I agree that people\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e7a9c8f0d284348865122241133257f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Good. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234e4d998dc3241e9a929db0b63e11e8c\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014can disagree on many things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260d9ba9de98b46c59cf9570370167b64\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s excellent. We\u2019ll move now to question No. 8. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022743d7dc9c85b458097db71257df6a03d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022 data-id=\u00221f1c72717fed4a28a77b3b6c774e17ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f1c72717fed4a28a77b3b6c774e17ab\u0022\u003EJAMES MEAGER (National\u2014Rangitata)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: What actions is the Government taking to reduce the number of victims of crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022 data-id=\u00224b5c5a14303747aea7d21e8f5981eb3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b5c5a14303747aea7d21e8f5981eb3f\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has agreed to introduce legislation this year which will make stalking an illegal and jailable offence for up to five years. It is often a precursor to more serious and violent crime\u2014there are established links between stalking and intimate partner violence\u2014which is increasing in prevalence. Every New Zealander deserves to feel safe, and this is another part of the Government\u2019s plan to reduce the number of victims of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282fa5cf66dcb4a6997be90fa588c326e\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: How will the new offence protect victims of stalking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aad4a6b2f2f24ebd9a9364723e30d90e\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: A stalking offence will provide better recognition, more effective prosecution, and support greater prevention of stalking offences. The current legislation\u2019s not adequately responding to the challenge. While some stalking behaviours can be prosecuted through existing laws, they do not cover modern stalking methods. Victim advocates have long called for the Government to create a bespoke offence and we have listened to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b08a0da01024f5796d5b0bc0a348e4f\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: What will be covered by the new offence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e961b0029fde49b6b2d3e5d4ce7c1a5a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the new offence will capture patterns of behaviour, being three specified acts occurring within a 12-month period that amount to stalking and harassment. It includes damaging reputation, recording, tracking, loitering, as well as the use of technology and modern stalking methods.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e23a94f8b1dc415b9133b65c32a051dd\u0022\u003EHon Nicole McKee\u003C/span\u003E: Will a conviction of stalking and harassment disqualify someone from holding a firearms licence? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022082227815d0e454c94d9863807525288\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Stalking and harassment is often a precursor to more serious and violent crimes such as firearms violence and does not reflect the fit and proper standards that must be met to hold a firearms licence. So, yes, the Government\u2019s decided that a stalking and harassment conviction will disqualify the offender from holding a firearms licence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fb1f6dcb42c437599db23aba151f920\u0022\u003EJames Meager\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback, if any, has he seen on the Government\u2019s proposal to make stalking an illegal and jailable offence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203417097f764427dbd346ed8d9db536b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s about time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228785fa96daff456390056c5062d4ec1c\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen\u2014I just heard one from the Leader of the Opposition: \u201Cabout time\u201D, and also from the Coalition for the Safety of Women and Children, who said, \u201CThis bill is a message that stalking is unacceptable [and] that it\u2019s not OK\u201D. They\u2019ve called for change and this Government is delivering it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002259b2517140a146d799591efd5d28c0b8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022 data-id=\u00224da6d05e57fb43518f6a2edbe838c767\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224da6d05e57fb43518f6a2edbe838c767\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: Does she accept advice from officials that \u201CNew Zealand and international evidence indicates military academies have limited effectiveness in reducing offending\u201D; if not, what evidence can she name that supports her approach to youth justice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb29d5c72f3143458d46e941de06c613\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb29d5c72f3143458d46e941de06c613\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do, which is why, when designing the pilot programme, we took on lessons from examples in New Zealand and internationally. In fact, in this process, over 75 formal lessons were identified and collated from these reviews of previous programmes, both in New Zealand and internationally. These lessons mean that the military-style academy pilot programme is different to what we have seen in the past. For example, each young person received a comprehensive assessment from a clinical psychologist prior to starting the programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b33d8dddd184da49ca2958fd759b478\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Does she see that the moral panic around youth delinquency that was\u00A0used to justify the boot camps of the past, outlined in the abuse in care report, is the same moral panic around youth crime that she is whipping up today to justify her boot camps?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9465aec546d47b9826437d22238f89e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say the last part of that is unacceptable in a question. I will ask the member to ask the question again without that last part to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c406b44e504b4d65805600f00d6539c8\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Does she see that the moral panic around youth delinquency that was used to justify the boot camps of the past, outlined in the abuse in care report, is similar to moral panic being whipped up to justify the boot camps?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228cab8c8bdc849049e80dc1342d29bb7\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: This Government and myself have committed to reducing youth crime within our communities, and to say that it\u2019s just a moral panic\u2014tell that to the people who have been attacked in their dairies and have been attacked doing their jobs\u00A0every day and are left injured and traumatised by some of the crimes that these young people have committed. Our job is to make sure that these young people face consequences for that behaviour, but also make sure that we provide a rehabilitative programme on the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d4881fcbf8945a982cfcf9f1f248c3b\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: What evidence or experience would she need to see to make her pause and reflect on whether to proceed with boot camps or not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214d74ccc50254d5bb394fbc0bbc10baf\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I think a 90 percent pass rate from the first part of the pilot programme shows that it\u2019s actually done a pretty damn good job. Now our focus is down in the community making sure that the transition from residential to community is as smooth as possible. So I\u2019m looking forward to seeing the positive results that these young people show for their future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249de7a99a27245bd93d0a2f93238cae3\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Is she saying that children that have committed a crime in their lifetime are not deserving of safe environments and protection by the State because of the things that they have done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c215df7089e94baa9b97cbe66822499e\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t recall saying that or even implying that. I think that young people deserve to be in a safe environment, which they call their home, which is why in response to the abuse in care inquiry and to that report, I have tabled, in the omnibus bill yesterday, ways to keep young people safe within these facilities\u2014because I know the damage that can be done from being abused, neglected, and traumatised, and I will not oversee any situation where I\u2019m not making my best efforts to make sure that that doesn\u2019t happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7e1e3a033a54874bd410733abf3beb1\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that almost every time a new boot camp initiative has been launched for the last 60 years, Ministers have claimed that their boot camp is different to the ones in the past, but that the result has been the same?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ced10ac65e4e4a03afc34303de165662\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why, when we were designing the pilot programme, we made sure that we looked at examples from New Zealand and internationally. That\u2019s the reason why we found 75 formal lessons that were collated from this to make sure that we don\u2019t repeat any mistakes from the past and make sure that we can add value to these young people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ce62e4151c8a4b239757ed6847aa9b25\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4eab3d21d2d41be8f28050711a81138\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4eab3d21d2d41be8f28050711a81138\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: How many Te Whatu Ora staff members have now expressed interest in accepting the voluntary redundancy first offered in August, and how many, if any, have had their request approved despite their local manager recommending against it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022 data-id=\u002258efffd7fe0e4f458315bfae5606982b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258efffd7fe0e4f458315bfae5606982b\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Decisions about voluntary redundancies are an operational matter for Health New Zealand and applications will not necessarily be accepted. However, I\u2019m advised that 863 expressions of interest have been received from staff. To the second part of the member\u2019s question, I\u2019m assured by Health New Zealand that a clear process was established for considering all applications. As at 8 November, Health New Zealand advises that 224 offers have been made to people whose applications were originally declined by their immediate managers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293ee4c8ca0c6464d875625d9a335bf80\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that emergency doctors in Northland have been asked to fill out patient registration forms themselves and even reconsider whether they really need to put out 777 calls for in-hospital medical emergencies because of insufficient clerical staff in the department at night?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213c46a59deb245fba74ae65e5250b04e\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m assured by Health New Zealand that the net front line of clinical staff is safe, that patients are safe, and that outcomes will improve work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b946fcfa618f4d63ac75c47721ddceae\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re doing paperwork. Does he stand by his statement \u201CLocal circumstances require local solutions rather than national bureaucracies.\u201D; if so, why have the objections of local service managers in the Bay of Plenty been overridden in over 80 percent of voluntary redundancies that have been accepted?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd0b049649784c71b1391550b19dd8d9\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: I do agree with those statements\u2014that reflected the previous Government\u2019s position\u2014and what I would say is that voluntary redundancies are an operational matter for Health New Zealand. But I\u2019m assured that senior leaders take wider strategic matters, including the one the member raises, into account when they make their decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287ff02cb4faa4c9eaa630f8bf1261673\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement \u201CWe believe in decentralising as close to the home and hap\u016B as possible.\u201D, and, if so, how decentralised is the health system\u00A0today when the deputy chief executive will only permit Bay of Plenty district to seek approval to recruit for 10 positions a week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bb5f4a218cf4c6fab0ac008d657a0aa\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. And we have decentralised the four regions, but that previous Government did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcb4b4c4a5f24d2ebd67c3ada3627844\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: When will he admit the impact of his cuts has tied up clinicians and paperwork and will ultimately cost the system more in the long run?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aca48c113d1d45b0997ff6d3a967c504\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: What I admit is that we\u2019re fixing the botched reforms of the previous Government and looking to improve patient outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6d4dab1f525440a808d6c783a8e9fed\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022739b3bbed7fe4186aa30494700144b3a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5a13bf2c74d43c8a3d7ef06934d2a08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022739b3bbed7fe4186aa30494700144b3a\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5a13bf2c74d43c8a3d7ef06934d2a08\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Housing: What recent announcements has he made about emergency housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u0022480acd0645a94a5d94846b742f73858d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022480acd0645a94a5d94846b742f73858d\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E The Government has set a target of reducing the number of people in emergency housing by 75 percent by 2030. We established Priority One to focus on wh\u0101nau with tamariki, and it had indicative progress\u2014blue shoots\u2014to 30 September in getting 726 households, including 1,452 tamariki, moved from emergency housing into social housing under Priority One. Now we are putting in place a new practical initiative to help those in emergency housing without tamariki to move into more permanent housing. Earlier today, I announced the social outcomes contracting trial aimed at singles and couples without tamariki in emergency housing. We will start those in emergency housing for over 12 months in Wellington\u2014Te Upoko o Te Ika\u2014and Hamilton\u2014Kirikiriroa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022739b3bbed7fe4186aa30494700144b3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa1e82bc929945ca9f59f5389a142170\u0022\u003EPaulo Garcia\u003C/span\u003E: Why are the trials in Wellington and Hamilton only?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6560d226888425284504061b7e7d35f\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: As at end September 2024, Hamilton and Wellington had the\u00A0most households in emergency housing. In Kirikiriroa, there were 225 households in\u00A0emergency housing, and around two-thirds are singles or couples with no tamariki. In Te Upoko o Te Ika / Wellington, there were 216 households in emergency housing; the overwhelming majority were singles with no children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022739b3bbed7fe4186aa30494700144b3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e48984a490934adc924893b49a7ea87f\u0022\u003EPaulo Garcia\u003C/span\u003E: What outcome is being sought, and how is this different to other contracts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215393fb981164d2598fb4a0c026de257\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: To the first part, the outcome being sought is improved housing stability. To the second part, the social outcomes contract will link some payments to the achievement of specified outcomes rather than most Government housing contracting, which ties funding to the delivery of specific services. Providers will have flexibility in how they tailor their wraparound tautoko for these clients and may receive incentive payments for getting the singles and couples out of emergency housing, supporting them to stay out of emergency housing for three, six, and 13 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022739b3bbed7fe4186aa30494700144b3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e17b2e01e3a43bfa675b185b9909947\u0022\u003EPaulo Garcia\u003C/span\u003E: How many people are expected to participate in the trial, and how will you monitor the trial?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269f5f6dc08b540ac893fbd872cd749dc\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: The trial\u2019s expected to support between 50 and 100 people total across both regions over the two years. The trial will help us understand the particular needs of the eligible individuals and what it takes to tautoko them out of emergency housing and to stay out. Officials will use the Integrated Data Infrastructure from data received from providers and set up an evaluative process alongside the Social Investment Agency to inform future insights and actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227560bdbd695f44bcbb491baf9c0d998d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u00220ebed70cb1cc48dd87f14797de2e9e63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ebed70cb1cc48dd87f14797de2e9e63\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by all her statements and actions in relation to Te Ahu o te Reo M\u0101ori; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u00224d18a1f355c94e3d818148174a173833\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d18a1f355c94e3d818148174a173833\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, in particular, my decision to reprioritise $30 million in funding to provide maths workbooks, guidebooks, resources to students across New Zealand, and as of today 400,000 primary and intermediate school students around New Zealand in schools and kura will receive these books. I also stand by my decision to ensure that these maths resources were created and made in te reo M\u0101ori to support tamariki and rangatahi to excel in P\u0101ngarau mathematics using te reo M\u0101ori as their language of instruction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc7f6f8a13344a2e947877da6128d41f\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with University of Otago education professor Susan Sandretto, who said, \u201CMinister Stanford is misleading the public into believing that the program was ineffective in raising student achievement when that was not within the scope of the evaluation.\u201D, supported by Dr Hana Turner from the University of Auckland, and, if not, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd8ed7b055474b89bacfc2dc53dade0b\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Herein lies the problem. It should have been in the evaluation that we are making sure that tamariki M\u0101ori are doing well at school, and it wasn\u2019t. It also said in the report that I said that \u201Cit was unable to be told whether or not tamariki M\u0101ori were having their achievement raised.\u201D, and that is true. Now, I also said that one in five teachers involved in this dropped out of the programme, one in five were not involved in working with students, and 18 percent of all participants enrolled in courses were more likely to be doing it for personal interest and fulfilment rather than development of teaching practice\u2014all things that were said in the evaluation report.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b26e744737f43cd989b44e5d65a104b\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she claim that \u201CAn evaluation of the programme found no evidence it directly impacted progress and achievement for students\u201D, when an Australian Associated Press Factcheck said it was misleading because the evaluation didn\u2019t look at the programme\u2019s impact on student progress and achievement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3381b49fbe944bd98a60c5c3f115bb4\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The evaluation said exactly that. There was no link between the course and student achievement. The fact is that\u2019s what the report said and that was one of the things I asked the ministry very early on: \u201Ccan we link, can we have a direct link between this course and student achievement?\u201D And when 12 percent of tamariki M\u0101ori are at curriculum for maths, I\u2019ve got decisions to make, and I made the decision to reprioritise that money to make sure that tamariki M\u0101ori\u2014[Interruption]\u2014have the ability to accelerate in maths in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef528d38a6b44a2f83f4a63c21edde55\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does the member really want an answer? There\u2019s so much noise. I just perhaps thought the member didn\u2019t want an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a84172ed14c45a1b34a37911a23fdee\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Just an accurate one, kia ora. Does she agree with Bruce Jepsen, president of M\u0101ori principals\u2019 group, Te Akatea, who said their members saw the move as a deliberate act of marginalising the language and, therefore, cultural suppression, and, if not, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223337070a615c4f73b8935ff92fdcc292\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No, because we in the Ministry of Education and under this Government invest a huge amount in te reo M\u0101ori. Not only have we made sure that every single resource that we are providing is also in te reo M\u0101ori for kura kaupapa and for M\u0101ori immersion units, we also have $43 million in M\u0101ori language programme funding for schools, teaching te reo M\u0101ori as a subject in any setting, and $3.5 million for M\u0101ori medium and kura professional learning and development in te reo language development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f57b31c3a2746f392f5252db6b40dd8\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she gloating today about the maths resources that have been funded by cutting $30 million from Te Ahu o te Reo M\u0101ori, a trade-off she should never have made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251bca9a7231e448fbc3cd367450f5ad7\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I am immensely proud of the fact that 100,000 children, M\u0101ori children in New Zealand, in term 1 next year will receive a student workbook, a student guide, and mathematics resources because 12 percent of them are at curriculum for maths by the time they finish intermediate. Yes, there are trade-offs to be made. And I\u2019ve already said that the reason that we\u2019ve chosen not to carry on with that particular contract is because it was a poorly performing contract. I\u2019ve also said that next year we will look to recontract that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284dc6905db3c4bf385608b7314b8e8ca\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Trading the M\u0101oris away again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f3a4e67ea3a45a7b08e6536e6f24a61\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Next year, we will\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a3a768ae08b4a81a8a80e84faba5b2a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute, sorry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fcda3d32bb7420d921a41dd26a38a12\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014but they should listen up, because it\u2019s quite important, but they refuse\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd58abdb64614618831bdc4ea2e72a78\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me. We\u2019ll just have quiet for the last part of question time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e736d19f9c94462dbc0bff029d354901\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I have said on many occasions that next year we will look to recontract this to make sure that more than 60 percent of the teachers who take the course actually finish it, to make sure that there isn\u2019t 20 percent of the people doing the course who aren\u2019t actually in front of children, and to make sure that the course is actually at the level where it needs to be, and that it\u2019s not 2.3 times more expensive than other similar courses. Because it\u2019s important to us that teachers can\u2014[Interruption] It\u2019s important to us that teachers can pronounce M\u0101ori words correctly and use everyday phrases in their teaching.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f641d961c6543519425cbf82377015c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That concludes question time\u2014oh, sorry, was there a supplementary from the Green Party? No, that concludes question time. Members, we\u2019ll take 30 seconds while people exit the House quietly and without conversation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c6c8ec045b5c4743ae65f32d5201a6f7\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223e647a43602845279fc25b334e1f8628\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7ec94774a124782bc61edbc292c2437\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7ec94774a124782bc61edbc292c2437\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EI\u2019m proud to be part of a Government that is making real progress on its commitment to restore law and order and to reduce the number of victims of crime in our community so that New Zealanders can feel safer in their communities. We heard the message from the last election. People were, number one, concerned about the cost of living and trying to restore economic growth, and my colleague Nicola Willis is making great progress on that front\u2014inflation down 2.2 percent. The second thing was restoring law and order. We made another step, last weekend, when we announced that this Government will finally be introducing legislation to criminalise stalking behaviour. I welcome all support from all corners of this House to reduce the number of victims of crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EI did note there was also some fundamental disagreement in the House, particularly yesterday, around that. I want to quote the \u201CChe Guevara of New Zealand\u2019s Parliament\u201D today, one Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, who was talking yesterday on this topic. She said, \u201CA criminal justice system that we all know only serves to produce more harm, more crime, and more victims didn\u2019t just happen. It [was] designed by people in power in this Parliament, and in 2024 it is being upheld and perpetuated by people in this Parliament.\u201D What a deeply cynical, extreme, and jaundiced view of the world expressed by that member, the leader of the Greens\u2014\u201CA justice system that we all know serves to produce more harm, more crime.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EWe do not agree with that. Actually, I\u2019d like to hear her tell that to the tens of thousands of New Zealanders working today in the justice system, in the courts, in the corrections, in the police, who\u2014day in, day out\u2014get up to work in the system that she so derides, to keep New Zealanders safe. I\u2019d like to see her tell that to the victims of crime who look to the justice system for justice and for consequences for people who commit those crimes in our community. We didn\u2019t hear any alternatives other than blather. We heard from her that \u201CI believe that the people will win, that justice will win, that love will win.\u201D Well, I\u2019m sorry, we\u2019ve got to do a bit better than that when people are the victims of serious violent crime. This Government is focused on bringing together\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022140ce9a5e96a4f409d90a9e172da0450\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: What are you doing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022470fafe5eac74b8cacdb82812b45156f\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: What are we doing? Well, here we go. We\u2019ve got news for you here. We\u2019ve kept our commitment. The first task is to increase the chances of being caught and held to account. That is why, first and foremost, we removed the previous Government\u2019s misguided and confused focus and goal of reducing the prison population by 30 percent, irrespective of what was going on in the community. That was the one that sent the signal that there were excuses for crime\u2014that everybody else in the country is responsible for the crime, apart from the person who did it, and that is the thing that undermined the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve restored the focus on reducing the victims of crime\u2014that\u2019s number one. Secondly, we\u2019ve increased the number of police\u2014an extra 500 police. Then we\u2019ve given them the extra powers that they needed to reduce and to deal with gang harm, because a small number of New Zealanders who are part of gangs are the ones who are contributing most of the violent crime and mayhem that we see. Then, we have introduced stronger sentencing requirements by bringing back three strikes, which the previous Government got rid of, and also by toughening sentencing requirements so that we can reduce the number of discounts that are offered by judges to people who are convicted of serious crime. Everybody has seen examples of people convicted of serious violent crimes achieving a bit of time on PlayStation at home, and we have sent a very clear message and will be sending a clear message through legislation that we want real consequences for serious crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003ESecondly, we\u2019re focusing on the areas where intervention is most needed. The retail advisory group that I set up has already sent advice on how we can strengthen the laws around retail people to look after their shops and their selves without the fear of being prosecuted themselves, and that\u2019s a very important message.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got to deal with the situation that we\u2019ve inherited where there was a higher level of violent crime; and then, secondly, of course, we need to break the cycle of violence, and that is why this Government has invested more in rehabilitation programmes, so that they\u2019re available for prisoners awaiting trial. It\u2019s why we\u2019re making progress on real drivers like emergency housing. I want to acknowledge the work of Tama Potaka, who\u2019s really had dramatic progress in reducing the number of people growing up in emergency housing, which is a training ground. Also, we\u2019re dealing with truancy, because if you want to deal with youth crime, you\u2019ve got to deal with getting the kids back to school. Those are the long-term drivers that we\u2019re focused on. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8af32656a9a489590afa0448b898920\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8af32656a9a489590afa0448b898920\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E When I decided to do the general debate today, I didn\u2019t realise that I\u2019d be speaking immediately after Paul Goldsmith. To the three people at home who made it through that and are still watching, I give my warm greetings to all of you. Although, I must confess, I once did read that biography of Don Brash that was written by Paul Goldsmith. I have never had such a good sleep in my entire life! I want to thank Paul Goldsmith for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThere were two words that were not mentioned in that speech by the Minister for Treaty negotiations, and I\u2019ll just mention one of them: \u201CTreaty\u201D. The second was \u201Cprinciples\u201D. No one in the National Party wants to talk about the Treaty principles. And why is that? It could be because they told New Zealanders before the election that they thought it was divisive. They told New Zealanders before the election that they would not support it. They told New Zealanders before the election that it was a distraction. They told New Zealanders before the election that it would take the country backwards, and yet here we are: now the National Party tomorrow voting in favour of the Treaty principles bill\u2014a bill that takes race relations in New Zealand backwards, despite the fact that the National Party said they would not do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThis week has been a week of contrasts. The Government doing the right thing, the principled thing, in apologising to those who were abused in State care; then, two days later, doing entirely the wrong thing in voting in favour of the Treaty principles legislation\u2014plunging race relations in New Zealand back into a very dark space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be clear: they have no mandate to do so. The National Party and New Zealand First said before the last election that they would not support this bill. Only one party in Parliament said they would support it, and yet they are getting their way. A majority of Parliament tomorrow will vote in favour of the Treaty principles bill. That is a betrayal of the people who voted for this Government. It is an absolute betrayal that says that the commitments they made to the electorate before the election mean nothing to them. They are merely things that can be traded away. Their principles and their values are up for sale on that side of the House, and I think New Zealanders have every right to be upset about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EI think those National Party backbenchers who are running around the corridors of the House, shaking their heads and talking about what a disgrace they think it is, have an opportunity to do something about that tomorrow and vote against the bill. They have an opportunity to stand up for the principles that they believe in and vote against the bill. They are violating the spirit of the people who actually have done the National Party proud in this area. People like Jim Bolger, like Doug Graham, like John Key, like Bill English, like Christopher Finlayson, who sought to lead the country forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EAs a New Zealander, I am proud of the progress that we have made as a country during my lifetime on issues around Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It is absolutely fair to say that New Zealanders\u2019 attitudes towards Te Tiriti in the past have been disgraceful. The Treaty was breached, crime was committed against New Zealanders, the Treaty was not honoured, and we have done a lot in the last few decades to rectify that and to say sorry. And we\u2019ve said \u201Csorry\u201D time and again in this House for breaches of the Treaty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EAll of the good will that has been built up under that process is now being jeopardised by this Government voting in favour of something that they said they were going to vote against. It is destroying the good will that has been so painstakingly built up. The National Party can stop this. The National Party can honour the commitment they made to New Zealanders, rather than the commitment they made to David Seymour and the ACT Party. The commitment they made to New Zealanders is what they should be honouring; not the deal they reached with the ACT Party. Let\u2019s be clear about this: this is Christopher Luxon, as our Prime Minister, prioritising his deal with David Seymour over the best interests of the New Zealand public. This bill will not be in the best interests of the New Zealand public, and the National Party should vote against it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022 data-id=\u00220528e68448024bb2994d69648004ef52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220528e68448024bb2994d69648004ef52\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries):\u003C/span\u003E This afternoon, we\u2019ve witnessed the day of the Dons. That was, New Zealanders, a man affectionately known as \u201CChippy\u201D\u2014sadly, not a chip off the old block of Norman Kirk, David Lange, or indeed Helen Clark\u2014a temporary occupant at the back of the waka. But I\u2019ll let others deal with that. Of course, they don\u2019t want to talk about the fact that in America, the election, another Don has put the tetrapod of wokeism to the sword. They don\u2019t want to accept, as we do on this side of the House in New Zealand First, that if you spend more time talking about pronouns, if you spend more time obsessed with narrow marginal issues adversely related to the economic challenges of the day-to-day lives of Kiwis, you will never hold power\u2014which is why this side of the House can look forward to a very rosy future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EThe reality is that the campaign, the policy, the strategy that we\u2019ve brought forward, New Zealanders, is sure to respect diversity, not cancel our history, and recognise there is a place for a debate about the Treaty of Waitangi. But it\u2019s a contest of ideas. The Treaty of Waitangi is not a creed; it is not a basis for a separate sovereignty. It does not in any way at all uphold, mandate, 78 separate sovereignties from the Foveaux Strait to Te Rerenga Wairua. That is why, although you may not agree with the bill, although it may never see the light of day, parliamentarians are entitled to put ideas up for debate. This is a place\u2014our House\u2014where ideas should be respected. And it\u2019s a very sad feature of yesterday\u2019s apology where the idea of redress was politicised by the \u201CPumpkin Patch Kids\u201D of the Green Party, distorted, sadly, by the Labour Party, and worsened by a lawyer who publicly attacked our Prime Minister and said that he had acted in a humiliating way, not hanging around for the apology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EWe need to temper expectations as we move forward after the apology pertaining to the kura m\u014Drehu\u2014the people who have suffered through abuse. What we most certainly do not need are lawyers carrying on, boosting expectations, such as Sonja Cooper attacking our Prime Minister. You want to be a lawyer? Don\u2019t try and hop in bed with the Labour Party unless you\u2019re already there. And most certainly do not go around inflating the expectations of people who have a lifetime of misery as it is. Learn to stand up and adhere to the threshold of professionalism that we expect from lawyers, especially those who are operating in the space of representing vulnerable people. You will not guilt trip New Zealand First. You will most certainly not escape being called out when you come to Parliament and deal a low blow which disrespects the dignity of the position of the Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EI think I\u2019m going to finish up this small contribution. Today, we will very soon be leading to the second reading of the fast-track legislation, and it came to me as a surprise, a great\u00A0waste of money, that today, in The Post, Dominion, Stuff\u2014whatever it\u2019s called\u2014Ng\u0101ti\u00A0Ruanui, a tribe of Taranaki who should be using their money to educate their mokopunas, have tried to pay for the cost\u2014and I presume it was them\u2014in a full-pager advertisement that supporting ironsand mining is going to ruin the surf of Taranaki. Are jobs now not more important than surfing? More importantly, \u201CIt\u2019s going to ruin the prospects of collecting crayfish and shellfish.\u201D I know no hap\u016B who goes 30 kilometres off the shoreline of our country to either get crayfish, either get shellfish\u2014it\u2019s that level of distortion worsened by the M\u0101ori Party, worsened by the falsehood merchants. That\u2019s why the fast track is going to lay bare the falsehood, lay bare the actual hypocrisy which has been visited upon the mineral sector, and I, as the Matua of mining, am here to ensure that everyone gets a fair deal in that sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u00221424f9e3593844cc844ecd9e9c912ffb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221424f9e3593844cc844ecd9e9c912ffb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Veterans):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier this week was the 11th day of the 11th month, and at 11 a.m. a number of New Zealanders gathered around this nation to pay tribute to those who have fallen in previous wars and conflicts, and those who still serve today. Armistice Day is an important date in our nation\u2019s calendar, even as we acknowledge other events in our past\u2014our regrettable past in relation to abuse in State care\u2014and mark for the first time and with subsequent anniversaries to be recalled on the 12th day of the 11th month going forward. It is important that we give due recognition to those who have served our country with distinction over the years, and that is a theme to which I\u2019ll return soon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EI do also want to acknowledge, as I was pleased the House was able to earlier today, the passing of Sir Robert \u201CBom\u201D Gillies. He was but one member of a proud tradition, represented by the 28th Battalion, the M\u0101ori Battalion, but he was a significant member. He was not only the last remaining link to that generation, within the greatest generation as they are often known, quite rightly, but also a great New Zealander in his own right as an advocate for veterans, including M\u0101ori veterans who faced difficult circumstances on their return to New Zealand; in many cases, to our nation\u2019s shame. I do want to thank the House for the acknowledgment that was given all around the House of his service, of his sacrifice, and that which he represented among that signal and esteemed group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EWe stand here exercising our freedom of speech in this general debate as a result of the actions, the courage, the comradeship, and the commitment of those who have served this nation previously, including those we remember, particularly in Armistice Day. At my left shoulder, I see names such as Crete; on my right, El Alamein. I look across the House and I see such names as Malaya; I see Palestine; I see in more modern times, Afghanistan; and I see Timor-Leste. In fact, in front of me, even, are living memorials, if I can use that contradiction in terms. I have veterans of Timor-Leste - New Zealand operations in Dr Vanessa Weenink and Mr Tim Costley. We are grateful to all those who have served. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EWe see, in addition, Gallipoli, of course, famously remembered in relation to Anzac Day. I want to say, in relation to Anzac Day, important as that particular commemoration is in relation to that particular conflict, that tragedy, that campaign\u2014may it never be forgotten; may we always remember that, but also acknowledging that that\u2019s the start of a tradition that grew up following those days and weeks and months as the full force of that\u00A0tragedy and that horror became apparent to New Zealanders in the commemoration of other conflicts and other services as well. I was very pleased that the Prime Minister announced at the recent annual gathering of the RSA\u2014that esteemed institution that remembers, supports, and advocates for our veterans\u2014that the Anzac Day Act is to be amended so that all conflicts and operations undertaken by the New Zealand Defence Force will be recognised accordingly in law on 25\u00A0April every year. That\u2019s an important task; as is commemorating supporting those who are our contemporary veterans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EUnder the Veterans\u2019 Support Act, those who have been engaged in qualifying operational service are entitled to certain things, having been injured or ill in the course of their duties. We have made considerable efforts, as the Government, to improve the conditions of those making those claims. We are processing those claims much more quickly. Justice delayed is justice denied. An entitlement not realised in a reasonable period of time is one therefore, effectively, denied. I\u2019m very pleased to say that the trend is going in the right direction in terms of processing those claims. We gained additional resources in the last Budget, and I thank the Minister of Finance for providing those to Veterans\u2019 Affairs, so that we can better look after those who have served us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a momentous week in New Zealand history. We acknowledge particularly that last\u00A0living link, as I say, to the 28th Battalion, the M\u0101ori Battalion. We thank them for their service. We remember them, and we acknowledge particularly that their sacrifice has enabled us the freedom to stand here on behalf of the people of New Zealand to have the debates and the robust discussion that freedom and democracy entail, enable, and indeed require. We will remember them. Lest we forget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u002215d982fd7d6e48c3be61f3fb27101988\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215d982fd7d6e48c3be61f3fb27101988\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s right for the Minister for Veterans who has just resumed his seat to recall for the House the many milestones that are remembered around our walls, of those times when New Zealanders have defended the\u00A0rights and freedoms of the citizens of this country. I\u2019m thinking ahead here to the year 2040. On 6\u00A0February, I hope that everyone in this House will be celebrating a proud history of progress in New Zealand for all citizens. It\u2019ll be 200 years since the anniversary of the signing of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and I hope that we\u2019re celebrating. I hope that we can then be proud of this country\u2019s progress towards an inclusive democracy, strong institutions, and\u00A0respect for the rule of law, and the can-do attitude that Kiwis have about getting on and\u00A0doing things together and including everyone who is a citizen here and who calls Aotearoa home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EI want to be cheering on a generation of young New Zealanders who stand strong in their identity and are experts in not only English but te reo M\u0101ori too. I want to be celebrating a generation of New Zealand exporters and businesspeople who see Te Tiriti o Waitangi not as something which is in their way but something that affords them an advantage on the world stage, in our trade arrangements, in the way that we attract foreign direct investment, and in the way that our economy is designed to be inclusive of everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EIn 2040, the Treaty principles bill being debated tomorrow will be remembered as an ugly mistake in an otherwise honourable record of a country that has always been proud of the way we have done right by our citizens. It should be remembered as a political stunt, because it is and it\u2019s only that. It\u2019s a creature of a coalition agreement because it will help a minor party drum up votes using the politics of fear. It is a political tool that is being proposed by the Government and a misuse of public power. They are the only ones who can propose legislation in this Parliament and they are using that public power to get it on the agenda and win votes from people who think they have something to fear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EPoliticians around the world are enjoying a political moment where they are using the most disenfranchised as a political punching bag to be popular. Single mothers, poor migrants, trans women\u2014they are villains in politicians\u2019 stories about what is going wrong so that they can ignore the big issues that really affect working people, like low wages, like high rents, and like rising prices in supermarkets. Those are going unaddressed by people who gain from that situation, and we\u2019re seeing it creep into our politics in New Zealand. It\u2019s not right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003ENow, in New Zealand, we have minor parties who have managed to hijack the legislative process to drum up fear about M\u0101ori rights. I ask them: what are they afraid of? What is there to be afraid of in a generation of young New Zealanders who are proud of their identity, not only as M\u0101ori but as P\u0101keh\u0101 who benefit from all of the good things that M\u0101ori have to offer in New Zealand and that our foundational partnership between the Crown and M\u0101ori has for everyone. It\u2019s inclusive. It builds inclusive democratic institutions which support the rule of law and lead to a kind of economic growth that is enviable in any jurisdiction that we like to compare ourselves to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EI would say to them that democracy is fragile, and ours especially, with the fewest veto points of any Westminster Parliament. The recent Nobel Prize in economics went to a group of researchers who illustrated that successful economic development depends on open institutions and a stable rule of law. Te Tiriti o Waitangi is a democratic institution. We as parliamentarians are charged with the protection of not only our democracy but its institutions too, and Te Tiriti is one. By drumming up this kind of political debate, which is divisive and alienates people, we as parliamentarians are letting our democracy down and are letting down the way that we organise our economy here in Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003ENational MPs can choose to vote against this bill and they should. As MPs who have an interest in stability in our democracy and in our economy, it is their duty, and the duty that they owe to their constituents, to vote against it when it\u2019s introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022 data-id=\u002266a04b852cf6438b9ad37ee00f59d254\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266a04b852cf6438b9ad37ee00f59d254\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s an honour to take a call in this general debate this afternoon. I want to acknowledge what a huge week it\u2019s been, especially for te kura m\u014Drehu [the treasured survivors] and the apology that we saw in the House yesterday. I\u2019d also like to thank the honourable Minister for Veterans for taking up the wero of veterans and actually applying the Act to more of the service that our veterans have seen, so thank you very much. Since it will benefit me as a modern veteran, I\u2019m particularly grateful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003EThis week, we\u2019ve seen some extraordinary events in my electorate, where, finally, the local community have been listened to by a large group. KiwiRail proposed a ridiculous idea of closing a cycleway in the Heathcote Valley in order to be able to undertake works to make safe a crossing of a road across a railway, but the cycleway that they wanted to close didn\u2019t even cross this same railway. They appeared to be using that as a way of getting the local council to fund this crossing. This whole thing had had a lot of whakapapa, if you\u2019d like, from back in 2019 when the project was first proposed. KiwiRail had pointed out that they were concerned about increased traffic across this rail crossing and had gone through the process of the shovel-ready projects to get this part of the business case. Unfortunately, it wasn\u2019t included in the business case, as many things weren\u2019t, for the shovel-ready projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003EThen we come down the line five years later and they are proposing an increased cost for this project. It\u2019s gone from $2 million up to $6.5 million to complete putting in barrier arms. They already put in some lights and flashing sirens and everything to prevent people from making a mistake. You can see a kilometre in every direction to make sure that there\u2019s a train coming, if you happen to be walking past. The $6.5 million dollars\u2014I worked out that if they paid someone at minimum wage to stand there and personally escort across this crossing, you could do that for about 10 years and all of the people that were required to be across would be very safely escorted across. This is the kind of level of absolute idiocy that we\u2019re seeing. KiwiRail\u2019s own calculations put that the mortality return on investment for this crossing was 1,003 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003EThe local community were rightly up in arms about this. On Saturday, over 200 of them gathered at the cycleway to protest the lunacy of this. As we were all discussing this whole thing, a small, two-engine unit came trundling past and tooted\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022694c3cef004e40d78a26712dce80070d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022703d8c9758d54e07ae6bec3744fd4e9f\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Well planned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aa5c5ac2d934ae7a972a5ad35ad78c6\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: And, yes, I think it may have been some KiwiRail workers, even, wanting to highlight their support for us. The cycleway has now had a stay of execution because, after being called into the Minister of Transport\u2019s office for a \u201CPlease explain\u201D, into Minister Brown\u2019s office\u2014and thank you very much to the Minister for doing that to KiwiRail; supporting them and helping them to understand that, really, a cycleway that doesn\u2019t cross a railway does not deserve to be closed down for two years in order to be made safe for this road crossing. We\u2019ve seen that KiwiRail have agreed that they will review this decision. I hope that the good people of the Heathcote Valley will remain safe and their children will remain safe and not have to bike on the road, which would be a much more dangerous proposition than going down their cycleway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003EThis kind of decision making that is based on risk assessments that make no sense probably shouldn\u2019t come as a surprise to us from an entity that went from a project of $600\u00A0million in the iReX project to being over $3 billion projected spend in the end. It shouldn\u2019t come as a surprise to us from an entity that couldn\u2019t figure out how to turn off an automatic pilot and crashed the ferries in the Cook Strait. I hope that they will go on to reflect and keep this cycleway open. I support the people of Heathcote Valley to be able to continue on this way. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022 data-id=\u00220858575ce27f47eb974c9ac863c675e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220858575ce27f47eb974c9ac863c675e1\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Today, the Government has launched a refreshed public-private partnership (PPP) framework. I\u2019ve been working on this policy in my role as infrastructure under-secretary, along with the Minister for Infrastructure, Chris Bishop. PPPs, when done right, deliver great value for money, they deliver projects on time, and they also deliver fantastic whole-of-life asset outcomes for the public sector and for the taxpayers who pay for it. Contrast this with the way so many of our public assets have been left to run down over the past few decades, having been built new, opened with a politician cutting a ribbon, but with no thought given to the long-term maintenance and renewal of these assets. You only have to think about the leaky pipes and the overflowing waste-water networks around New Zealand to know that New Zealand might be OK at spending money on infrastructure, but incredibly poor at maintaining it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is also amongst the top 10 percent of OECD countries for our spending on infrastructure, but in the bottom 10 percent in terms of getting a product\u2014actually delivering investment and infrastructure for our spend. One of the reasons that public-private partnerships are important to turn this around is because when the private sector has skin in the game, when they have to put money on the table and when they have to finance a new piece of infrastructure, whether it\u2019s a school or a hospital or a road, and then maintain it for 25 years and hand it back to the Government after 25 years\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221c098a63f6df4f47a3950ca7536044d5\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: It costs more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0d7c7bee94f434ebc508ba17f5db9ba\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Duncan Webb says that will cost more. In fact, that reflects the true cost of operating and maintaining an asset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022111a1a42b1f441e88092bb9edcf3f178\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s a profit motive\u2014there\u2019s a profit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022266a997734c14a0a8635eaeb9e92308b\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: And we know it represents the true cost because the private sector has skin in the game\u2014if they don\u2019t allow enough cost, they\u2019ll go broke, Dr Duncan Webb. That\u2019s the difference between New Zealand Labour\u2019s previously flawed approach to rejecting public-private partnerships, because they failed to recognise that an insufficient investment in the maintenance side of things can\u2019t make up for announcing new projects, building them over time, if ever, and over budget. You cannot possibly spend your way out of our infrastructure problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EA few weeks ago, I was in Australia and I visited with colleagues in the construction and infrastructure and financing sector, including with the Victorian Infrastructure Delivery Authority. One thing they pointed out to me was that it didn\u2019t matter whether they had a centre-right or a centre-left Government. There was universal support, Dr Duncan Webb, for the concept of private sector finance involved in the delivery of projects and their ongoing maintenance and operation in the form of public-private partnerships. That\u2019s because, when it\u2019s important to transfer the right risks to the private sector\u2014while the public sector keeps some that it makes more sense to own, like getting the planning permissions\u2014when it makes sense to actually leverage private finance and make sure that they have some risk associated with their investment so they want to manage the asset properly, then it doesn\u2019t matter what political stripe you are; it makes sense to make investments along those lines. That\u2019s why I\u2019m very proud to say that, today, this Government has achieved cross-party support\u2014unanimity, in fact\u2014to support the next generation and wave of public-private partnerships, because Labour\u2019s finance spokesperson, Barbara Edmonds, has signed on to the foreword of the public-private partnership policy framework to support that concept where it makes sense to invest in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EIn Australia a few weeks ago, I visited a number of PPP schools, and what was remarkable about them is that, even though they were up to 10 years old, they looked as good and as tidy as the day they opened. What the teachers told us in our visit and what the school managers told us is that they don\u2019t have to worry about maintaining those facilities\u2014they only need to turn up and deliver education and look after the children in their care. I was astounded by the construction workshops and all of those learning facilities which particularly help keep young men engaged in school right until they graduate out. That is only possible because a public-private partnership has committed to providing the highest-quality facilities, maintaining them to make sure the equipment always operates, and that the teachers can simply get on and teach. I\u2019m proud to say that New Zealand is going ahead today with the next generation of PPPs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u0022afa3c9b85c654bf0b72fa04d5be189f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022afa3c9b85c654bf0b72fa04d5be189f6\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was just fascinated to listen to Vanessa Weenink\u2019s speech, and she\u2019s one that I\u2019m hopeful will actually vote against the Treaty principles bill when it comes before this\u00A0House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f0f7d90c9d544d69e189dff0d203547\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Does she have the guts? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223323c3716fd7461ebdb8e1f45874edc8\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she\u2019s got form, because she came out doorknocking with me and helped put Jacinda Ardern into that seat over there in 2017. She\u2019s seen the ways of the Labour Party, and when she realised she wasn\u2019t going to be a Labour MP, look what happened, eh? Look what happened. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThe Treaty principles bill is an absolute travesty. It is a shocker. Now, look, the fact of the matter is that the ACT Party is there, the tail wagging the big, fat, ugly dog, whilst the puppy dog in the other corner isn\u2019t getting a look-in at all, and I am shocked that the party on the other side\u2014the National Party\u2014is being led by the nose. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThe bill itself is actually illegitimate and it\u2019s dishonest. It\u2019s dishonest because the very legitimacy of this House is built on the Treaty of Waitangi. The fact is that the authority of this Parliament comes from the fact that the Treaty, in one way or another, created a union between M\u0101ori and the Crown, and the authority of the first Parliament that sat came from that very document. Do you know what? You can\u2019t rip away the foundation stone because you don\u2019t like it any more. You can\u2019t make up and you can\u2019t create fictitious principles because you don\u2019t like the deal that you made 180 years ago. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003ELook, the Treaty isn\u2019t perfect. There are two versions, they don\u2019t agree with each other, and some M\u0101ori didn\u2019t sign the Treaty. The fact of the matter is that even if you take those two documents, its true intent is not always clear to see, and there\u2019s a way around that. Just like a contract that is incomplete and that doesn\u2019t take into account every future circumstance, we do go to the courts. We ask the courts \u201CWell, what\u2019s meant by this? What was the original intent?\u201D, and that\u2019s what the principles of the Treaty are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EDo you know what, I\u2019ll tell you who put it quite well. That was Christopher Finlayson, who said back on 10 August 2016, which is not that long ago\u2014he put it well. He said that \u201Cpart of the law of New Zealand is, in fact, the Treaty, and part of the Treaty, of course, is that we accept there are principles of that Treaty that we regard as important \u2026 the fact of the matter is that we say \u2018according to law.\u2019 And, by necessary implication, we read into that the Treaty of Waitangi and its principles.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EYes, the Treaty is old. It was drafted quickly up in Waitangi. It was poorly translated and there are inconsistent versions. That\u2019s why we have the Treaty principles, and it was in 1994, in the State-owned Enterprises case, that the Privy Council looked at this for us, and I accept that we do need an independent judiciary to look at questions like this. They said that \u201Cthe \u2018principles\u2019 are the underlying mutual obligations and responsibilities which the Treaty places on the parties. They reflect the intent of the Treaty as a whole and include, but are not confined to, the express [words] of the Treaty. \u2026 With the passage of time, the \u2018principles\u2019 which underlie the Treaty have become much more important than its precise terms.\u201D That\u2019s what the ACT Party is trying to do away with\u2014that very foundation stone. What they\u2019re trying to do is vicious, it\u2019s divisive, it\u2019s racist, it\u2019s dishonest, it\u2019s illegitimate, and it\u2019s unconstitutional. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EA very wise person in this House\u2014a member of that party\u2014said, \u201CI think New Zealand will be a better place if we can accommodate the concepts of partnership expressed in Te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u201D That was a guy called Gerry Brownlee, in his maiden speech, and I think he\u2019d be very happy to have that\u2014or Nicola Willis. On the radio today, she said, \u201CIt\u2019s a founding constitutional document of our nation. If one party seeks to impose their view on the other without their consent, it\u2019s dangerous.\u201D That\u2019s what this bill is. Vanessa Weenink, vote against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022 data-id=\u00225680435bb4194eb7b5ceabc923f18469\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225680435bb4194eb7b5ceabc923f18469\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E What a great day it is today, because right now, at this very minute, there are people driving along the K\u0101piti Expressway at 110 kilometres an hour. This is great news for every single person not just in my electorate\u2014the \u014Ctaki electorate, right through Horowhenua and K\u0101piti\u2014but all those that travel up and down the North Island. You\u2019ll remember the dark days of Labour Governments, when it was a windy road; it was a dangerous road. People died on that road. Along came National and said, \u201CYou know what we need? Roads of national significance.\u201D And now, here we are: the culmination of the K\u0101piti Expressway from Raumati, through Paraparaumu, Otaihanga, Waikanae, Peka\u00A0Peka, Te Horo, right to \u014Ctaki\u2014110 kilometres per hour the whole way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003ENow, I know what we\u2019re all thinking of. We\u2019re all thinking of Ryan Hamilton in his maiden speech talking about driving down the Cambridge Expressway at 110 with AC/DC blaring. I will be the same. Sadly, in my case it is Taylor Swift, due to the three daughters I have, but I\u2019m OK with that. I\u2019ve made my peace. The one thing I wasn\u2019t going to compromise on was 110. In fact, we held the petition. More than 2,000 people signed that petition in support; 3,000 people submitted to the New Zealand Transport Agency, and 93 percent of them said, \u201CMake it 110.\u201D That\u2019s what people told me they wanted, that\u2019s what I fought hard for, and today it has been delivered. This is a safe, world-class expressway, designed and built to be safe at these higher speeds, and now we have it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EI tell you what: for those in the northern part of the electorate\u2014and, to be fair, for all of us\u2014we just look forward to the next phase, the next stage, \u014Ctaki to north of Levin, all the\u00A0way to the north of Levin, construction starting next year. Gee, it\u2019s great to have a National MP in our area, and even better to have a National Party Government that is getting our region back on track. But it\u2019s not just speed that is at 110\u201410 percent faster on the\u00A0expressway\u2014mortgages are 10 percent cheaper now than they were just a couple of months ago. In fact, if you buy a house today at the median house price, you put down a 20\u00A0percent deposit, you will be saving exactly $110 per week on your mortgage thanks to this Government and our efforts to cut inflation\u2014an extra $110 and 110 kilometres an hour.\u00A0Now, I\u2019m sure it\u2019s not just those that are 10 percent better; our streets are probably 10\u00A0percent safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EHealth: in fact, I looked at the number of nurses that we have trained\u2014almost 2,600\u2014it\u2019s almost 110 new nurses that we have employed every fortnight for the last year since we came into Government. That is amazing; 110 is the magic number to remember.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EI hear from the other side people complaining because as we drive down at 110 with that extra money from mortgage rates dropping\u2014and, of course, people have also got\u00A0their tax relief in their back pocket; the tax relief that the Opposition opposed. They didn\u2019t want people in our community to have anything. Labour didn\u2019t want you to have it. But it\u2019s also not enough. There\u2019s the FamilyBoost payment. If you\u2019ve got children in early childhood education, you could be entitled to extra money\u2014up to $75 a week. Make sure you apply for that. Labour opposed that as well. But it\u2019s also not enough. What do they\u00A0believe in? No one seems to know. They were very principled before when Duncan Webb was talking, but just ask them what they believe about you having more of your own money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just cars, of course, in the K\u0101piti Coast that are going faster. This weekend, we just had the K\u0101piti Half Marathon. It was good to see some cross-party representation. We don\u2019t need to compare times. I\u2019m OK with it if you want to. Let\u2019s just agree that the ladies from my household did better than all the gents from this House in their respective races. We all earned those pink buns at the end. And guess how much that cost!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c2b76e0a09d48b680dc1e2a1ca0119e\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: $110?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c794b065f4a46afaabd93a9205cd96f\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: No, less than $110. Well done to Benjy and the team. Flooding at the last minute meant they had to completely reroute the course, and they did an amazing job. Can I congratulate Jeroen Mattheus, who won the men\u2019s half-marathon. He runs a great running group on a Friday morning and trained a number of runners. Can I congratulate Cath Braddock, who won the women\u2019s half-marathon, fresh off a 70 kilometres Taup\u014D Ultramarathon, where she came second\u2014outstanding. And a special shout-out to a woman, my special lady, who came\u2014guess where she placed!\u2014110th; same as it all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EThis weekend, the K\u0101piti Strawberry Festival, Foxton Christmas Fair, Levin Diwali\u2014I look forward to driving to them down the K\u0101piti Expressway at 110 kilometres per hour. We\u2019re getting this country back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7495dccbd45478e91e153ef069d62e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7495dccbd45478e91e153ef069d62e2\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today, I have an opportunity to respond to what happened yesterday, when this House acknowledged the horrendous abuse that was endured by more than a quarter of a million tamariki from the\u00A0years of 1950 to 1999. I\u2019m not going to mince my words, because I only have a very short period of time to do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EYesterday was the day for remembrance and for the apology, but today is the day for action. Today is the day that the Government needs to be accountable for the actions that it continues to take that create abusive environments whereby the pain and the trauma that we saw in that report might happen again today, because the very next day, as in this morning, there was a regulatory impact statement released that detailed the impact of the military boot camps that this Government is currently experimenting with and on the young serious offender category\u2014the very next day. The Government couldn\u2019t even wait to put their boot camps further into the system. Then, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to come back here and we\u2019re going to debate the Treaty principles bill, despite the fact that so many of the recommendations from the abuse in State care report said, \u201CPlease, do not undermine tamariki\u2019s connection to their iwi, to their hap\u016B, and to their whakapapa.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EWe have a pipeline in this country whereby M\u0101ori babies are uplifted from their families and put into State care, and then in that State care they are often abused, and that still carries on to this day. State abuse did not end in 1999; it continues to this day. They are abused in our care. They end up in our youth justice residences\u2014the same ones that those kids were up on the roof for\u2014and then they end up getting involved in gangs because those are the only people who can relate to their experiences of abuse and trauma, and then for their entire life they end up in and out of prison. It is a vicious cycle. But the obvious thing from the actions of this Government is that this House facilitates that pipeline\u2014they actively facilitate that pipeline. It\u2019s not going to end until we decide that we can and should and must do better than what we currently do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EI just read an article from RNZ that said the Government doesn\u2019t even know if gang members will be eligible for compensation for the abuse that they endured by the State. Where do you think they learnt that violence from? They learnt it from the people who were supposed to protect them and look after them. They\u2019re simply reproducing the behaviours and the attitude that they were taught. We have a responsibility in this House to stop that cycle, but we haven\u2019t learnt anything from the past, because we\u2019re still doing the boot camps.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EDavid Seymour wants to lock up the parents of truants. We want to take this whole pathway around truancy. That happened in the past as well. They picked kids up off the streets, who were meant to be at school, and put them into abusive institutions where they were abused. Karen Chhour and her boot camps: we just need to read the report to see how those boot camps inevitably will end. Mark Mitchell is building a mega-prison at Waikeria and at Auckland Prison to continue to funnel our people into prisons. Tama Potaka is kicking M\u0101ori wh\u0101nau out of emergency housing. Most importantly, tomorrow, this Government will introduce a Treaty principles bill that will absolutely underpin harm that is completely irreversible. When I\u2019m 70, I don\u2019t want to hear an apology from this House about the Treaty principles bill. I won\u2019t accept an apology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EThe last thing I want to say is that I want to speak on behalf of people like my grandfather, who ended up in a borstal in the 1970s, where he was subject to seclusion\u2014which is solitary confinement for kids\u2014where he was subject to a number one diet, where he was showered by being hosed down with a fire hose. That is why I refuse to accept that this House continues to perpetuate the same conditions that he had to endure, because he deserved better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u0022048d08c8a8184427b3f1948471e0b36f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022048d08c8a8184427b3f1948471e0b36f\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019d just like to start off with a shout-out to all of those in the Wairarapa electorate, Central Hawke\u2019s Bay, Tararua, and the Wairarapa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003ESpring is certainly here. We could do with a heap of rain on our hills, though, particularly up in the northern part. Most people have had tax relief. Interest rates are on their way down. It\u2019s crouch and hold till the end of the month\u2014hopefully more good news with the upcoming official cash rate announcement. Hard-working parents are now able to get FamilyBoost payments, and anyone that\u2019s not getting it or not sure if they\u2019re eligible, please don\u2019t hesitate to contact me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EI would like to wish all the students who are sitting their exams or who have already sat them not only in the Wairarapa but around the country the best of luck. To those that are leaving school to embark on whatever their next challenge may be, I would also wish them all the best. I\u2019d also just like to thank all the teachers for the hard work that they\u2019ve done and the part they\u2019ve played in the education of our young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThe agricultural and pastoral show season is now well upon us, and it\u2019s always been a very special part of provincial New Zealand. It\u2019s a place where town meets country and we get to celebrate what we do and who we are. I\u2019ve really enjoyed the interactions at the Hawke\u2019s Bay show, Waipukurau, Clareville, and I look forward to many more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003ESome other good news for our region and, indeed, all regions around New Zealand is the fact that commodity prices are up. Commodity prices being up means a big deal. It means a big deal because 80 percent of our export income comes from our food and fibre sector, 70,000 businesses are involved in the sector, and 360,000 people work in it\u2014one in six New Zealanders. Beef schedules are up, lamb\u2019s better than it has been, the dairy pay-out is significant for our economy, and those benefits start flowing through into our towns and into our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EJust in case the news hasn\u2019t got through, the inflation genie is well back in the box. It was down to 2.2 percent for the year ended September, and the darkness before dawn, as Nicola Willis previously described the state of the economy, is finally starting to lift. Thank you for trusting us as the Government to manage the economy out of a recession. Through the fog of that recession that we inherited from the previous Government, we can now glimpse better days ahead, and that\u2019s certainly something to look forward to. Actually, all this is in contrast to the other side of the House. A business owner came up to me the other week in Masterton. He was actually quite incredulous at the comments he\u2019d heard from the previous administration regarding their regrets and/or their intentions to borrow more, spend more, and tax more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EIn his comment to me, he said, \u201CThat\u2019s how we ended up in the recession we did.\u201D, and thinking about what he said, it\u2019s not hard to come to the conclusion that the Labour Party seems to be fixated not only on more rules but on more tax. They seem quite addicted to tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThey\u2019d tax our land, they\u2019d tax our beds, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003Ethey\u2019d tax the tables upon which we\u2019re fed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThey\u2019d tax our tractor, tax our utes,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003Ethat\u2019s why, on 14 October, Kiwis gave them the boot. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThey\u2019d tax our work, they\u2019d tax our pay, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003Ethey\u2019d prefer we work for peanuts and earn all the same, anyway. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThey\u2019d tax our sheep, they\u2019d tax our cows, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003Ethey\u2019d tax us any way or how.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EWhat about our ties? Even our shirts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThey\u2019d even try to tax our dirt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThey\u2019d tax us if we blink.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThey\u2019d tax us if we try to think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThey\u2019d tax all we have, then let us know,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003Ethey won\u2019t be done till we\u2019ve got no more dough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EWhen we scream and holler, they\u2019d tax us some more\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003Etax us till we\u2019re good and sore. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThey\u2019d tax our coffins, tax our graves, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003Eand tax the dirt upon which we\u2019re laid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EWhen we\u2019re not looking, when we turn our backs,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003Edon\u2019t be surprised if they\u2019ll want a capital gains tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EAlso, when we\u2019re gone, do not relax,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003Ethey\u2019ll also try and apply an inheritance tax. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s probably more than enough of tax. We as a party are still concentrating on those key things: getting the economy back on track, good law and order outcomes, and getting good and better public services. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022faebf6866d404b4084c8fb29ffb94085\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, \u201CMr Crump\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022 data-id=\u002236a3967e43a94e579192baa6ad287ab7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002236a3967e43a94e579192baa6ad287ab7\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Ki te kotahi te k\u0101kaho, ka whati; ki te k\u0101puia, e kore e whati\u2014in the words of King T\u0101whiao, \u201COne reed alone will break; if they are bunched together, they are impossible to break.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003EI speak often about growing up with a M\u0101ori father and a P\u0101keh\u0101 mother. I feel often that I have the best of both worlds, but I wonder, as the Treaty principles bill makes its way to Parliament tomorrow, how the hell did we get here as a country? Last week, I watched in disbelief as \u201CSimeon Seymour\u201D tabled the Treaty principles bill. Tomorrow, I presume that the Acting Prime Minister will be none other than David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003EAround the country, New Zealanders and M\u0101ori are mobilising with passive resistance against this National Government. Today, we saw thousands and thousands of M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori alike go from Te Kamaka Marae in Northcote, H\u0101to Petera, across the Harbour Bridge in Auckland to Takaparawhau and to Ihum\u0101tao to demonstrate their disgust in the Treaty principles bill and this Government\u2019s attack on M\u0101ori\u2014this Government\u2019s attack on M\u0101ori. I ask again in this House: how the hell did we get here?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge every single person that crossed that bridge today. The thousands of Aucklanders, the people that have marched from Te Rerenga Wairua, those people that stand for something, who believe in the foundations of Te Tiriti\u2014the thing that brought our peoples of Aotearoa together in unity. This bill will take New Zealand backwards under this Government. It will take M\u0101ori-Crown relations back to the dark ages. It is divisive, it is destructive, it is an absolute waste of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003EThe Treaty principles bill does not have support in this House, and today not only do I ask people to vote against the Treaty principles bill tomorrow; I particularly throw the tono out to those that sit on the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee with me, to the chair, to members that sit across the other side of the House in Government. I\u2019m calling them to do what is right: to not put New Zealand through a six-month process of destruction that whips up racism. Once that reading is done tomorrow, we\u2019ll have to endure thousands of submissions from people like Hobson\u2019s Pledge. This is what they want, this is their wish, and National Party members who vote tomorrow are giving in to them and giving them what they want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003EAgain, I humbly ask my colleagues in the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee: do not vote for this bill. It\u2019s not only the submissions that we will endure\u2014and it\u2019s not often spoken about\u2014but after a first reading and submissions, it will come back to this House for a second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003EI believe that this country was founded on unity; that we have progressed as a country over decades, but tomorrow we will revisit our shocking and terrible past. I just want to acknowledge all of the people, M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori alike, that crossed that bridge today; that stood for something; that stood for unity, M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori alike. I call again on my Government colleagues in M\u0101ori Affairs: do not vote for the Treaty principles bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3b3328d12fe490abc62adbeae95cea4\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022263a1eb6a78e45688f9ade67fa2956e1\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022 data-id=\u002210d286c732d446ebaab713c7edce60a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210d286c732d446ebaab713c7edce60a6\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the sitting of the House today be extended into the morning of Thursday, 14 November for consideration in committee of the Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill; the second readings of the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2) and the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill; the third readings of the Contracts of Insurance Bill and the Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill; and the second readings of the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill, the Therapeutic Products Act Repeal Bill, and Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002239d899a40fe649199bea55f63aea5ac8\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b4b8d091e2941a6b680107fcc94457a\u0022\u003EFast-track Approvals Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f7899e9872814c65bfbc5f2680f56d71\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022 data-id=\u00220769c04b8b2c46ef83ff4a4c167f8bdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220769c04b8b2c46ef83ff4a4c167f8bdb\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Resources)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister responsible for RMA Reform: I present a legislative statement on the Fast-track Approvals Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228143b770328342a598dfa6691037896f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the parliamentary website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b849699b814441a398626c6384dda8df\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Fast-track Approvals Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EIt is my privilege to demonstrate to the vast number of New Zealanders, Kiwis, waiting anxiously to see progress as we move beyond the cobweb of green, red, and brown tapeworm-like obstructiveness that has impeded the development of our economy\u2014because projects in mining, energy, infrastructure, and other such developments have been blighted\u2014that today is a day of light, not a day of blight. Now, we actually introduced this bill, in urgency, in March. That reflected the importance we attach to getting our economy enjoying a higher level of acceleration, and it\u2019s my pleasure to celebrate with this wee speech the return of this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EOf course, we all know that this is modelled on Labour Party legislation. We all know it was the Labour Party who originally introduced the fast-track legislation, and included a list of projects\u2014quite an inspired development at the time. This bill picks up that earlier version and makes a host of overdue refinements, and connects it with the pulse in our economy, which needs to be injected with fuel that will power the ambitions and give greater certainty and confidence to those who actually want to get things done in a rapid period of time. That\u2019s why this bill is slightly more extensive than the efforts of the Labour Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EWe know that the Wildlife Act has cost millions and millions of dollars as a consequence of it being manipulated\u2014impeding fish farming, worsening road construction\u2014and we also know that because of a calcified level of legal decision-making, it represents a major\u00A0impediment for garden-variety Kiwis wanting to make progress, build businesses, create jobs, and reward investment. That\u2019s why this bill should be conceived as a broad umbrella, where different statutory permissions will be synthesised into one single consent, and the genius of this bill is it represents a one-stop shop. Sadly, regulatory thickets have stood in the way of building roads, whether it\u2019s up in Mount Messenger or whether it\u2019s an attempt to expand offshore salmon farming down in Marlborough, and this should be seen as accompanying the work associated with what my colleague Mr Simon Court is responsible for in relation to moving\u2014with the honourable Mr Bishop\u2014resource management forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003ENow, I don\u2019t need to remind everyone how many jobs will be generated. Confidence and certainty will grow. I only wish that iwi leaders wouldn\u2019t waste their money in the New Zealand newspapers pretending that mining ironsands is going to affect crayfish, or mining ironsands is going to have a bad impact on surfing. I\u2019ll take jobs for M\u0101oris before surfing for hippies any time of the day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003ELet me move now to the business of listed projects. Listed projects are those identifiable initiatives such as the boon coming to Taranaki in the form of ironsands. Now, that was reflected in a very, very sacred document otherwise known as the coalition agreement between New Zealand First and the National Party, and in that document is a reference to a highly sought - after mineral called vanadium. I know that, for many of my critics in Taranaki, they\u2019ve had to consult the dictionary to learn how to spell that word, but, rest assured, that economic boon is on its way, and it occupies a position with a host of other mining projects that are on the listed projects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EInitially, New Zealanders flooded the process and overworked the independent committee\u2014ably chaired by Mr David Tapsell\u2014and there were nigh on 390 to 400\u00A0projects, but we showed judiciousness on this side of the House. We chose not to be reckless, we chose not to be cavalier, and we said we\u2019d settle upon 149 projects. Now, those projects represent quarrying. You cannot create infrastructure or build roads in the absence of quarries, and, sure, from time to time there may be one or two modest minor species and critters in the way of the quarry. They will be dealt with appropriately, but we are not going to get into a situation of developments\u2019 progress and jobs held ransom to or hijacked by a random frog, a multicoloured skink, or other such elements of the natural world when there\u2019s thousands and millions of them around us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EOf course the advisory group was independent, and that\u2019s what it means when the politicians can stand up and say that, on this side of the House, we\u2019ve taken high-quality advice. These projects represent an enormous fillip, an enormous injection of confidence into our system, and that\u2019s why the fast-track legislation is so important. Of course there will be a Minister involved in terms of after the bill passes, and there may very well be some opportunities through the committee stage for the other side of the House to make suggestions. I fear that those suggestions will only represent further pollution\u2014further pollution\u2014but we will be resolute on this side of the House because we know the economy can no longer tolerate any more policy seances, any more protracted processes of consultation where the result won\u2019t change; all you do is celebrate\u2014celebrate the mentality that costs are always understated and risks are overstated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EWho are the final decision makers in this highly sought - after legislation, which I hope will be the most permissive regime in Australasia? In fact, it\u2019s the OECD, because, if I\u2019m not mistaken, the Labour Party in England actually has its own fast-track legislation. Now, the final decision maker will be a panel. There was a period of time that I had arrogated that distinction to my good self, but I\u2019m a member of a Cabinet that is blessed with common sense. I\u2019m a member of a Cabinet who wants to ensure that the public has confidence in governance and the institutions where decision makers lock in with the issues. That\u2019s why a High Court judge or an Environment Court judge will chair the panels that will be empowered to make decisions pertaining to either the projects on the existing list or those that will be referred in the future by the Minister for Infrastructure, and there will be an opportunity, in appropriate circumstances, for a member of the panel qualified in M\u0101ori development and te ao M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003ENow, \u201Cte ao M\u0101ori\u201D means \u201Cthe M\u0101ori world\u201D, and so that\u2019s this planet; not the planets up there in the galaxy, where, sadly, a lot of the M\u0101ori hogwash that I have to tolerate, as someone who puts my credentials against anyone in te ao M\u0101ori as to where does our language begin and end. This notion that tikanga M\u0101ori applies 30 kilometres off the coast, and you can\u2019t go exploring and creating wealth looking at ironsands\u2014not only is that a degradation of tikanga M\u0101ori; it shows how ideology has weaponised our M\u0101ori identity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EI must acknowledge the efforts of the Environment Committee. In conclusion, I am immensely proud, with appropriate levels of modesty and humility, to play this small role to bring this legislation to the House and to assure New Zealanders, assure investors, and assure our communities that jobs, growth, revenue, and progress is on the way and we will no longer allow the deification of the environment to stand in the way of jobs and growth. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u002222de679f0c114a7e98918ef53af00e3a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222de679f0c114a7e98918ef53af00e3a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022 data-id=\u0022cebed6440d5f4d198eb7de6a3a75c9fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cebed6440d5f4d198eb7de6a3a75c9fc\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a sad day that I am standing here with a bill that has changed a little bit through the select committee process, but not nearly enough. It is not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022affee7f6aea14734b4f4350959687c93\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Labour policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9f1e768c0414e59bed28f00895b4b22\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister for Resources says it is Labour policy. It is not a refinement, it is not slightly more extensive than Labour policies for fast track; it is a huge overriding of all of our environmental protections, and the Minister doesn\u2019t even pretend that it\u2019s not. The Prime Minister might, the Minister whose name is on the bill might, but this Minister just told us he wants it to be the most permissive regime in Australasia, and what does that mean? That means that all our normal environmental laws can be overridden because some private project has got on to the list that he just told us about, and that is disgraceful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003EHe has told us that he wants the public to have some trust in the system, but what we have here is a Government bill that will give private rights to private projects to private companies. That is not how we make law in New Zealand, because Government bills are there for the general New Zealanders\u2014they\u2019re not specific. We have local bills when councils want to change the status of a reserve or something like that, and we have private bills when private entities such as trusts want to change something about their trust deed. Those sorts of things are private bills. They are not Government bills, but here\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c81946ff154101b58166e92e1479a9\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Red tape. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f120a033ebb645a68db2308b455a1487\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014we are told\u2014and the Minister is just yelling out \u201Cred tape\u201D because that is how he holds the constitutional norms in New Zealand: with disdain. It is a disgrace, and New Zealanders should be very concerned that this Minister is in Cabinet and that the Cabinet that he says has some common sense is letting these changes come through. It is a disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Resources, who just spoke, said that maybe there\u2019ll be some amendments in the committee of the whole House stage of this bill, because, of course, we\u2019re only at the second reading stage. Here is a wad of amendments that both the Labour Party and the Green\u00A0Party have already submitted, and they make all the changes that are needed to make this bill\u2014what did he say?\u2014a \u201Crefinement\u201D of the Labour Party fast track. The Minister has said that he\u2019s very proud that \u201Cthe genius of the bill is it represents a one-stop shop.\u201D That is an interesting idea that it\u2019s a one-stop shop, and that is different from what Labour had done\u00A0in\u00A0fast track, but it is something that I\u2019m not fundamentally opposed to. What I am fundamentally opposed to is any legislation that overrides our normal laws that protect the environment, and that is what this bill does, and the Environment Committee have reported back and amended clause 3, which is the purpose clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003EClause 3, as in the bill that was introduced, said something about processes to facilitate development and projects, and now that \u201Cprocess\u201D word has been deleted\u2014to make it very clear that this is a substantive bill. The purpose does not refer to the environment, and it does not refer to sustainable management; it just refers to the facilitation of projects. That is very concerning, because then how the rest of the bill works is that that purpose is the thing that decision makers have to give the most weight to, and that is the mechanism by which this bill leapfrogs all of our normal environmental protections\u2014our environmental protections that don\u2019t apply to the things that haven\u2019t managed to get on to the listed projects list, that don\u2019t apply to things that are medium-sized and not regionally significant, which have no way to get to this fast-track process, and that don\u2019t apply to the projects that, demonstrably, the Resource Management Act does the worst job at, in terms of costing those people more money for the process and taking more time than it should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003EThese large projects, which would always normally go to a court because of how large they are and the effects that they\u2019re going to have, go through the system now reasonably quickly. They could go quicker and they could be cheaper, but, comparatively, the real problem is with those medium-sized projects, and this bill does nothing to fix that. All the talk of how it\u2019s improving the economy and efficiency is just not right. All this bill is doing is overriding our environmental protections for the good of a few\u2014for pet projects of that Government and of that Minister\u2014and it is a disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003ENow, the Prime Minister has stood up in question time many times and referred to this fast-track bill as something that is going to help us in our climate emergency. He goads Labour and Green politicians and says, \u201CWell, you should support this bill.\u201D No, we should not support this bill in its current form, because it is not all about doing things that are good for climate change, it is not restricted to renewable energy, it is not restricted to public-good infrastructure, and it is not restricted to stormwater improvements or things that are going to help adaptation. No, as the Minister very clearly just said, it is for mining projects and other things that might be in totally unsuitable areas. It is a disgrace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003EThis bill, where something is prohibited in a plan\u2014and it\u2019s very hard for councils to make prohibited rules. When they make a prohibited rule, they have to be able to demonstrate that something like, say, building houses on a flood plain is so bad and so dangerous that nobody can ever apply for a consent for that\u2014it\u2019s un-consentable. What this bill does is say, \u201CNo, no, it doesn\u2019t matter if something is prohibited. You can still get a consent for that activity.\u201D That is a disgrace and it\u2019s dangerous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003EThe water conservation orders: we heard from people that there are only 16 water conservation orders in New Zealand over 16 pristine water bodies, and it\u2019s a very long and arduous process to get a water conservation order, but these projects can just ignore the water conservation orders, because that is what this bill does. It overrides our normal environmental protections, and it\u2019s a disgrace. It stops public participation, and I acknowledge that the Labour pieces of legislation around fast track definitely restricted public participation, but not to this degree. There are the Labour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd251c7aeb1b46eb956b6a1e59fef058\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, so it\u2019s OK when Labour does it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5e2387035a24a3a825257fcadfdcad5\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I\u2019ve got an amendment here, Mr Simpson, and I hope that you will support it because it lists all the groups that were listed in Labour\u2019s emergency COVID legislation, such as some of the environmental non-governmental organisations and Business New Zealand and other entities. Not even those groups are involved in this process in this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003EIt\u2019ll make more wrongs against Te Tiriti. We know that projects can override our normal environmental protections and we know that that will cause environmental harm. We\u2019ve heard the Minister say he\u2019s not worried about killing a few animals because there\u2019s thousands or millions of them. What a ridiculous thing to say in this House, when we are talking about\u2014and I assume he is actually talking about\u2014threatened New Zealand native species, where there are not thousands or millions of them, but they are the last ones on the planet, and we are very privileged to live in a country with such wonderful biodiversity and\u00A0such interesting endemic species that are not found anywhere else in the world. He thinks, for a few bucks, that one of his pet projects should just be able to ram through all those protections that those species, those frogs, would normally have\u2014whatever that animal is\u2014and that is disgraceful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003EThere is no Treaty clause in this bill. There\u2019s reference to Treaty settlements, but that\u2019s pretty much it, so we know there will be more wrongs. And it enables coalmining in kiwi habitats. That is just mind-blowingly bad. We know that that cannot be a good thing: (1) why do we need more coal when we already have a climate crisis and are trying to stop burning fossil fuels; and (2) kiwi are regarded as taonga species in New Zealand, and that project has\u00A0already been declined. It can\u2019t get through the current environmental tests, and yet with this bill it will be able to, which demonstrates how this bill is not protecting our environment. It is overriding our environmental protections. The problem definition is wrong. The problem here is not to make things faster and to help the economy; the problem definition is the consenting of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u002286e4f167b8214778ae94370e22745077\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286e4f167b8214778ae94370e22745077\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired, thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022 data-id=\u00229a915a2355604ce5b85db23e618d1f75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a915a2355604ce5b85db23e618d1f75\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. Well, we knew at the outset of this Government signalling their intention with the fast-track bill that it would be bad. We knew it would be bad for the environment, we knew it would be bad for Te Tiriti, we knew it would be bad for local voices and for local democracy, and it was actually not only all of that but it was also just really poorly put-together legislation. Officials have made that really clear throughout the select committee process and there have been so many changes as a result. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had some really concerning developments over the time of that select committee process. One of the most concerning was the fact that the Schedule 2 projects did come out and were announced, and we saw the possibility of what this fast-track bill actually could enable and the reality of that for communities. We had the media point out, even just at a cursory glance, that $500,000 in donations have been linked to companies that are on that\u00A0Schedule 2 fast-track list, and we really welcome the Auditor-General launching their inquiry into how Ministers managed conflicts of interest with the fast-track process. I wanted to quote here because the Auditor-General said that this inquiry was \u201Cvital for maintaining public trust and confidence, as well as New Zealand\u2019s global reputations for transparency, accountability, and integrity.\u201D This is really serious stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003EThere are aspects of the bill that have not yet been addressed by the select committee, and we\u2019re still in the position in this House now where there are so many questions yet to be answered that the public still have so many concerns about, as does the Green Party. What\u2019s noteworthy at this time in this bill\u2019s passage through Parliament is that, despite the 27,000 submissions that we got on the bill and the 23 days of public hearings that the Environment Committee went through, which had so many voices, with such eminently sensible recommendations that could have been adopted and put through into this bill from organisations, from iwi, from hap\u016B, from companies, and from industry that would have made this bill something that actually was of value to New Zealand and could stand the test of time\u2014despite this whole process\u2014quite incredibly, this bill has now emerged that is actually worse than when it first started out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003ESure, there have been some welcome changes. The removal of the ministerial decision-making has been removed, and there has been a clause put in so that on referral decisions, the Minister for the Environment will now be consulted, but I\u2019m not sure that offers New Zealanders any comfort when we have a Minister for the Environment who says that the balance has swung too far toward the environment at the cost of getting things done, despite the overwhelming weight of evidence within her own ministry saying the contrary. I want the public of Aotearoa to know that, under this bill, the meagre environmental protections that once constituted a framework of what we would consider to be environmental protections are\u00A0no longer, under the fast-track bill. They now amount to mere considerations, and this is because the purpose clause has actually been strengthened so much that it now gives the greatest weight to significant development over environmental considerations. Now, I don\u2019t know how many times I\u2019ve heard the Government saying that the Green Party should support\u00A0fast track, and talking about things like renewable energy, but if it\u2019s just about public infrastructure, then let\u2019s make it about public infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003EThe Green Party proposed at select committee that we would actually define what constitutes significant, regional, and national benefits, and we proposed that this would mean\u00A0public infrastructure, like transport, water, hospitals, education, renewable energy generation, and telecommunications. This would have narrowed the scope of the bill, but that was rejected, and why was it rejected? It was rejected because fast track is, unfortunately, not just about public infrastructure. It\u2019s about the damming of rivers to progress farming intensification and the pollution of rivers and streams; it\u2019s about the flooding and mining of conservation land; it\u2019s about hydro schemes that degrade and diminish some of our last remaining wild rivers; it\u2019s about so-called waste-to-energy plants, which sound great in theory but are human and ecological health nightmares, and now, overseas, similar plants are being decommissioned or banned; it\u2019s about the mining of our last remaining areas of seabed\u00A0habitat; and it\u2019s about this Government being so incredibly lazy with their policy making that they would rather open up swaths of the Mackenzie Basin for massive solar farms\u00A0than actually do the policy work to enable the use of the millions of existing square metreage available on industry and domestic roofs that could be used instead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the lack of iwi, hap\u016B, and public voice in this fast-track bill, which has not improved, because, again, if this bill was really about enabling projects of such significance that they\u2019re of regional and national significance, then logic would dictate that, actually, the breadth of expertise within civil society\u2014groups and experts having their say\u2014could contribute to the informing of the expert panel and actually result in projects that not only have a social licence but robust evidence and understanding that allow conditions on these projects that actually makes sense and do not unnecessarily risk human health and environmental health. We proposed just that\u2014that all projects should be publicly notified\u2014and got nowhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003EWe hear, like a broken record, from this Government that they\u2019re the Government for farmers, and what\u2019s really concerning about this bill is that there are no protections for the rights of existing consent holders in this bill. I can tell you, from being on the select committee and from talking to very unhappy consent holders in some of these proposed project areas, that they are extremely concerned about their consent rights being overridden by fast-track projects, particularly when it\u2019s limited resource constraints like in the water space. The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment so accurately described this as there being one set of rules for everyone and then there being special, fast-track rules \u201Cfor the big end of town\u201D. We think that is unacceptable, and our proposal to actually protect the rights of consent holders in this bill got nowhere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003EHere we have this bill that could have got the basics right. It could have enabled a one-stop shop for development within environmental constraints in a way that actually upheld Te Tiriti and allowed public voice. Instead, we have this bill that is so definitively short-sighted that it ignores the voices of our people, the need for the protection of te taiao\u2014our environment\u2014and the right of current and future generations to a livable future. This bill has no clear justification and rationale to justify its continuation through Parliament. Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki thinks that this bill should be binned and left to the ashes of history. It\u2019s reckless. It should not go any further, unless the Government really seriously looks at our amendments and considers them in the next stage, the committee of the whole House. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022 data-id=\u00227e87d048a3414b578504d404205b1478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e87d048a3414b578504d404205b1478\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The ACT Party will be supporting the fast-track legislation. It\u2019s a really important tool to unlock what is currently\u00A0a\u00A0system that\u2019s been running with the handbrake on, getting nowhere, and, in fact, costing $1.3 billion per annum, according to the Infrastructure Commission, to consent infrastructure projects alone in New Zealand. We\u2019ve got a resource management system which required a friend of mine building a house at Mangawhai, north of Auckland, to apply for a consent because his 1-metre-high retaining wall, according to a council officer, was actually 1.2 metres, and that was a $4,000 cost and a six-week delay to building a family home. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EThis is the system that this Government has inherited that the previous Government failed to fix\u2014five years of navel-gazing. The Randerson panel, of which the Hon Rachel Brooking was a member, in five years couldn\u2019t come up with a concept that was enduring and that would allow us to get on with building infrastructure, developing the natural resources that we need in order to build roads, make concrete, and build buildings\u2014which includes hospitals and schools, by the way. The fast-track legislation is the best solution we\u2019ve got to knock the blockage out of the system, and you know how important it is because hundreds and hundreds of applicants put in their projects, seeking to qualify for fast-track approval on a nationally and significantly important basis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EIt turns out, though, that everybody\u2019s infrastructure and development project is important to them. New Zealanders are currently forced to get about 40,000-odd consents a year, as at the most recent peak of our construction boom. In the 1990s, and a few years after the Resource Management Act was passed, about 5,000 consents were required every year. Now, we\u2019ve got to 40,000. We\u2019re sure as heck not building 40,000 consents\u2019 worth of stuff; this is all paperwork. It\u2019s all red and green tape. It\u2019s all asking questions by councils and commissioners and planners to protect their own reputations and to protect and manage\u00A0their own risk, not to ask questions to help get things built faster. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EFast track is an important first step to unlocking our resource management system, making it easier to build, making it easier for Kiwis to use their property in ways that they see fit, making it easier for local government to get their vital infrastructure projects over the line, to upgrade water and waste-water treatment plants, to get housing developments over the line, and to get renewable energy projects up, but it\u2019s also to get those really important quarries and mines that we need to consent and develop so that we can have access to the natural resources like hard rock for building roads, and minerals like coal and gold, which we need to power our industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EWhat many people in this House on the Opposition side don\u2019t realise is that coal is not just something to be burned; it is a chemical. It contains carbon. It is used to turn into products like the coal tar in our trading partners like Japan and South Korea, which is then used to make those wonderful waterproof backpacks and rain jackets that so many of my friends who might want to go for a hike on the weekend rely on to keep warm and dry. Coal is not just something to be burnt; it\u2019s a vital mineral resource in technology and healthcare, as well as in many of the products that we use and consume every day, and it\u2019s important that New Zealand has access to our own resources, rather than being strategically vulnerable on importing other people\u2019s resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to talk about the one-stop shop factor, and I want to appreciate the fact that the Hon Rachel Brooking did acknowledge the improvements that this bill brings to the decision-making process and the assessment of information about the environmental impacts of projects. This bill brings in consideration of the Conservation Act, getting access to land managed under the Conservation Act. It brings into consideration the Wildlife Act. There are species out there that when we\u2019re building roads, when we\u2019re developing residential housing subdivisions, and when we\u2019re building commercial precincts, there will be little creatures and there will be habitats with plants and other species on them that we want to know about, and, if at all possible, we want to avoid or remedy or mitigate the effects of development on these places. Now, unfortunately, the system to do that is so disparate, the Wildlife Act is a 1953 piece of legislation which presumes that when you apply for a wildlife permit, you intend to kill it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003ENow, I can promise those members of the Green Party, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, and Labour, who were so concerned about the last frog, that the ACT Party, in supporting this bill, is confident that there are processes in place to identify threatened species and to identify special habitats to make sure that they are protected and that consent conditions issued as part of approvals under the Fast-track Approvals Bill will recognise those important places and creatures. The problem we\u2019ve got is it\u2019s taking too long to get these approvals. You get one and it might take two years; if you still have to get another, that might be another two years; and then you still need to acquire the land under the Public Works Act. We\u2019re bringing all of these things together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EI also want to talk about the catastrophism that we\u2019ve heard. When this bill was first proposed, I read comments that this bill was an example of this Government\u2019s war on nature and that it was going to cause\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022315ac3e62cfa4e63ba7652b83d8ef7fc\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Because it overrides the environmental protections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022013fcb7425e743aa81867453829307a6\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014an ecocide\u2014Rachel Brooking\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208f06f18c13a4e349c07e7aa9c975d02\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: The truth hurts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e78f26caf04bdea738de729552de4c\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014an ecocide\u2014Kahurangi Carter. Well, here\u2019s the thing: there is no developer of residential housing or of long-term residential care for the elderly. There is no one I know\u2014a civil engineer, an environmental engineer, an ecologist\u2014who works for a company that\u2019s developing quarry resources to build the things we need who wants to take part in an ecocide. That is a complete nonsense. It is catastrophising, and it is completely unhelpful\u2014it is unhelpful and immature from people who want to participate in the debate about how we build the infrastructure that we need, and how we also protect the special places and creatures that are important to New Zealanders. I would call on all members of this House to quit the catastrophising, quit the use of these terms like \u201Cecocide\u201D and a \u201Cwar on nature\u201D, and go back and tell your supporters and the members of your political parties that there\u2019s a way through this, and we\u2019re going to participate in a constructive way, because this is just round two of this Government\u2019s resource management reforms. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003ERound three\u2014which we\u2019ll be talking about more soon\u2014is replacing the Resource Management Act with a system based on property rights which sets environmental limits to protect these special places and provides for mechanisms like compensation and offset and trading biodiversity credits to make sure that where we do do development that\u2019s really needed, we recognise that there are other places that we want to protect and enhance. New Zealanders do share values about our love of the environment, but, by goodness, we also want to live in affordable homes, we want to be able to drive at a decent clip on modern roads, we want to be able to get into ports and airports, and not have a whole bunch of nimbies and people who catastrophise the impact of land development on the environment to such an extent that, essentially, they\u2019ll say that we can\u2019t build anything anywhere, ever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6d44f8ce95e4086a63f8d7e3f8e9441\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: No one\u2019s saying that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225328ecfd0bc64b39b948bfbe052d3cc8\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you say, Kahurangi Carter, that no one\u2019s saying that, but the implication of what the Green Party is calling for and of what Labour is saying is that we must remain anchored in this status quo and that the status quo you see today in terms of our traffic congestion and in terms of our inability to build major infrastructure projects on time and on budget is acceptable, and, in fact, we have to slow them down further and apply more layers of precaution. That\u2019s what we\u2019re hearing. Now, if you disagree with me, what I\u2019d like you to say, Kahurangi Carter\u2014and maybe some other members of the Green Party, like Lan Pham, will get to speak on this bill again\u2014is that you do support land development, you do support housing intensification, and you know there are pathways to actually codify\u00A0environmental effects management, and that we shouldn\u2019t have to apply for 40,000 consents a year to get permission to do the things we already need to do well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003ENow, I can tell there are some members of the Opposition here who can\u2019t get their heads around this concept. The ACT Party supports this bill. We\u2019re going to do more of this stuff. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022429f025407d444acb92031878aecceb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022429f025407d444acb92031878aecceb3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022 data-id=\u0022505ced51482f4d58bd378f56574b8c91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022505ced51482f4d58bd378f56574b8c91\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National\u2014Coromandel):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I rise in support of the second reading of this Fast-track Approvals Bill in the name of my friend and colleague the Hon Chris Bishop, who is our Minister responsible for RMA Reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EI also do so in my capacity as chair of the Environment Committee. It\u2019s a role and a privileged position that I came to halfway through the deliberations and hearings on this legislation. As other members have already indicated, there were a lot of submissions. There were some very strong views put both for and against the proposed legislation, but I can report to the House that, after the select committee process, the bill that the select committee has reported back to the Parliament is, I think, a significantly changed and better bill than the one that was first introduced at first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EIn telling the House that, I just want to reflect for a moment on the timetable that has been transpiring while this legislation has been considered by the House and by the select committee. It\u2019s just over a year since the last general election and it\u2019s not quite yet 12\u00A0months since the formation of this current coalition Government, and it\u2019s been 12 months of action and activity and positive change for a brighter, bolder future for New Zealand and for our people and for future generations. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EOne of the first things that the new coalition Government did before Christmas last year was to repeal Labour\u2019s very ill-conceived natural and built environment legislation. It was full of red tape; it had slowed down the economy; it did very little, if anything, to preserve, maintain, or enhance our natural environment; and, most importantly, it was symbolic of Labour\u2019s view that everything should be controlled from the centre and that issuing proclamations from the Beehive was the way that New Zealanders should receive consents\u2014that was the way that information should be conveyed to them and that\u2019s the way that all things should happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s of course a principle and a philosophy that\u2019s not unique to the New Zealand Labour Party; it\u2019s a policy that is, essentially, the same in left-leaning parties all around the world. What they fail to understand is that in New Zealand\u2019s case, we\u2019ve got a woeful deficit of infrastructure. We\u2019ve got an economy that is struggling and that has been made far worse after six years of a Labour-led Government, we\u2019ve got a desperate need to improve the health, wellbeing, and certainty of future for all New Zealanders, and we\u2019ve got to get things done. That was a key, fundamental element of last year\u2019s general election. This coalition Government was elected to get things done, and this bill represents exactly that kind of momentum that\u2019s required to get things done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EMinister Shane Jones made comment about it being a one-stop shop piece of legislation. Far be it from me to even try and emulate any of his magnificent eloquence and oratory in this Chamber, but I think he did make a number of serious points that are well worth repeating and focusing on again, and they are that New Zealand needs a growing economy, we need more renewable electricity generation, we need more capacity to build roads and infrastructure that give us the kind of lifestyle that we want as a First World nation, and we need to have a decision-making process that can expedite that growth, that development, much quicker than has been the case, frankly, over the last 30 years or so, since the inception of the Resource Management Act. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EThen when he says\u2014and as do others in this Chamber\u2014that Opposition parties should be supporting this legislation, he\u2019s 100 percent right, because, surely, if they continue to want and demand better housing, better education, better health facilities and all those sorts of things, then we need to have the economy that can sustain that. We simply can\u2019t, as a nation, continue to divide the pie into ever-decreasing slivers. We can\u2019t continue to do that; we actually have to grow the pie. I know that that is a difficult concept for members of the Opposition to grasp, but we have to have a thriving, growing economy if we want all the things that we are to have as a First World nation. This piece of legislation goes a long way to ensure that the obstructions, that the roadblocks, and that the logjams that have so stultified our economy for so long will be freed up and removed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003ENow, the bill makes a number of changes as reported back from the select committee, and I just want to focus on one or two of them in the time that\u2019s available to me. One of the main changes is that the select committee has recommended on a suggestion from Cabinet that the expert panel projects be referred to the expert panel by the Minister for Infrastructure alone and that that Minister will be required to consult with the Minister for the Environment. I think that\u2019s a positive change in this piece of legislation. Importantly, also, final decisions on projects will not sit with a group of Ministers but with the expert panel. I think that\u2019s appropriate. I think that\u2019s appropriate; in fact, it\u2019s identical to the same system that the Labour Government had when they were in power, so I\u2019m sure that they\u2019ll be supporting that. Then the expert panels themselves will include expertise in environmental matters, and that, of course, is important as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we don\u2019t accept that having protection, enhancement, and maintenance of the environment and having a growing, thriving economy are binary options, and that you can\u2019t have one without the other. In fact, you must have both\u2014you\u00A0must have both. That\u2019s the reason why, on this side of the House, we\u2019re supporting this piece of legislation. We\u2019re grateful for the support of our coalition partners in ACT\u00A0and New Zealand First, and we are determined, as a Government, to get things done. We support this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00229693f491d5594f67b51205586d021a33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229693f491d5594f67b51205586d021a33\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022 data-id=\u00228747725d2f2f4c3fa539c0ffd81df684\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228747725d2f2f4c3fa539c0ffd81df684\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. First of all, obviously, we stand in absolute opposition to this bill, and, to be very specific, it is giving unprecedented powers to politicians who have deliberately chosen to remove Te\u00A0Tiriti and who are doing everything they can to resurrect zombie projects previously turned down by every court that exists in Aotearoa. That\u2019s not progress. That is not economic progress; that wreaks of desperation. When we see nearly 27,000 submitters, 83 percent of whom are opposed and many of whom weren\u2019t heard because they were relegated to a ballot system over 23 days, it sort of tells you how desperate this Government is. There is nothing innovative or transformative in what is being proposed.  Absolutely, we should progress\u2014absolutely, and there\u2019s no debate on this side\u2014but \u201CAt the cost of what?\u201D is what we\u2019re really, really opposing you on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EWe have a Minister who has been proudly championing this kaupapa. I think the terminology was to milk mother Earth for all we can. Shane Jones, in his valedictory speech, said that what matters more than anything in the world was he tangata, he tangata, he tangata, and yet not once has he listened to ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata\u2014not once. What we have is a person who, actually, would have been marching beside those across the Auckland Harbour Bridge today. He would have been part of the hikoi\u2014that is his background\u2014but, instead, the people he chucks off at today are now sitting there, ashamed of his background. We have a Minister who was involved in the Ministry for the Environment, who was involved in M\u0101ori fisheries, and who led a delegation to the Pacific on transparency, and, in 44 years, now has every one of those groups\u2014iwi M\u0101ori, environmentalists, M\u0101ori fisheries, and Pasifika\u2014against what it is he\u2019s proposing. In 44 years, we see this downward, desperate spiral, and it\u2019s just so sad that, again, if we were truly listening to the people, we would provide economic solutions and transformation that we could all be proud of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EWe in Taranaki are sick to death of hearing everyone here act as if they\u2019re experts in a sector that they\u2019ve never had in their backyard. I call BS on this Minister\u2014Minister Jones\u2014because not once has any of this gone back to his backyard. I\u2019ve just come from there, and there\u2019s no way, with all the anti-mining signs I saw, that they would allow him to do that in his own backyard. But, no, in Taranaki we have to enjoy the fruits of this unimaginative Government. We have to sit here and see\u2014and I want to share that some of those who so bravely have invested in making sure that mainstream media have got advertisements showing how toxic the decision to have seabed mining in Taranaki is viewed, because nowhere can we trust that any of their political representation is going to do it except for us, on this side. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EWhat we had were so many ex-voters of National walking with us, opposing seabed mining, absolutely disgusted that their Government\u2014or the people that they\u2019d previously backed\u2014are doing this. Ng\u0101ruahine were absolutely opposed, saying, in fact, that the Crown\u00A0had failed them and, again, it is prepared to continue to develop on the back of our pain, as Taranaki. We\u2019ve got Ng\u0101ti Tama, who said that you are so focused on the significance of economic development at the cost of our kaitiakitanga. KASM\u2014Kiwis Against Seabed Mining\u2014said that you are breaching the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership. And who cares\u2014who cares? No one is listening. Also we\u2019ve got, again, Greenpeace, who said this is extremely problematic and that the bill is setting up a clear hierarchy that will allow development, regardless of the cost to threatened wildlife. Horowhenua Lake Trust Mua\u016Bpoko also talked about how the bill prioritises development goals over existing rights and interests. Again, 25,000 people on the bridge today are telling\u00A0us that you\u2014this Government\u2014will never ever listen to the lament of those who are disgusted at how you\u2019re treating our Tiriti. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003ETaranaki don\u2019t want this, those who care about our mokopuna don\u2019t want this, but, instead, what we have, unfortunately, is a Government that is executing this so damned fast\u2014so\u00A0fast\u2014that what you don\u2019t realise is you\u2019re fast tracking your way out of Parliament, and let this be a one-term Government, for all we can do. Kia ora r\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab2fd17c83f045288c1c8edb1c45b73c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab2fd17c83f045288c1c8edb1c45b73c\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I was fortunate to be part of the fast-track bill hearings earlier this year and to hear from submitters, and I have to say up front that if this bill is an example of the way this Government intends to keep on operating, I see clearly that they really only want one term. One term is actually one term too many for a Government intent on trashing our environment, running roughshod over our communities, and destroying our children\u2019s future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s consider the numbers, the facts. There were 53,000 submitters, including petitions, individual submitters, and a thousand organisation submitters. Of those, 0.3 percent gave outright support to the bill\u20140.3 percent\u20141.1 percent gave support in principle, 5.7 percent had an unclear position, and 92.9 percent outright opposed the bill. Let\u2019s be clear: this bill was rushed prior to introduction, is incredibly unpopular, and has no public mandate to proceed, and yet here we are, facing a Government determined to destroy our environment and our international reputation and to threaten trade agreements and override communities, all in the pursuit of short-term financial gain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003EI firstly want to thank all those submitters who presented, and all those who sent in written submissions, but were denied an opportunity to speak. I can understand why this Government would be unwilling to face the full glare of an outraged public, a public dismayed by the arrogance of this Government to push poorly written fast-track legislation through a blitzkrieg of urgency. It just demonstrates how out of touch this Government is, and it also demonstrates an astonishing denial of the climate crisis we face and an unwillingness to work constructively across the aisle for wellbeing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003EThere were some in support of fast track. There were companies who made submissions in support of the fast-track legislation who are developing renewable electricity generation projects, and we certainly need more renewable electricity generation. They noted that they participated because they did not want to miss out, and made it clear to us that, even if they participated in the fast track, they would still engage with communities, with iwi, with hap\u016B, and with councils, because, ultimately, they need social licence to continue to operate. Without social licence, we will see development tied up in courts. We\u2019ll see protests galore. We will find it much harder to build social cohesion if people, if communities, if iwi, if hap\u016B, and if councils are overridden by the Minister for Infrastructure, and what will happen in those situations where people are overridden where people, iwi, hap\u016B, and councils oppose proposed projects listed in Schedule 2? Who will the Minister listen to: the developer or the people? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003EFor example, members might be aware of Project Kea, a proposal that\u2019s in Schedule 2. It\u2019s a proposal to burn toxic waste in a small, rural community, in Waimate in South Canterbury, and we heard in their submission that this is a project that will increase harmful climate emissions. It locks in dependency on a constant stream of waste. It will produce toxic air pollution. It will produce toxic materials to pollute the soil, water, animals, and people. It is proposed on a site on a flood plain\u2014it could all wash out to sea\u2014and it\u2019s located within two kilometres of a school. On 5 November, the Waimate District Council passed a motion to request that the Government remove the toxic waste plant from the fast-track list. All councillors are against the incinerator, as is iwi, as is the community, and as is the local school. Who will the Minister listen to: the developer or the people? And what about our international obligations? How is it that the Environment Committee proceeded with the bill, despite not receiving any legal advice on the potential impact of the bill on our international obligations such as emissions reduction targets or trade obligations? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003EThis bill is a solution in search of a problem. We\u2019ve got an existing fast-track process which has managed to protect the environment while enabling more infrastructure, renewable energy, and housing. This fast-track bill is simply a dog\u2019s breakfast and it deserves to be consigned to the bin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbcc2cc6eb554100a9d710accf0167a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbcc2cc6eb554100a9d710accf0167a0\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Goodness me, that was hard work listening to that, wasn\u2019t it? I agree with our great chairman of the Environment Committee, the Hon Scott Simpson. He said that we used to be a country that got stuff done and now, quite simply, we\u2019re a country where it\u2019s become impossibly hard to actually get anything done at all in a timely and cost-effective manner, and that\u2019s despite a housing crisis, despite a roading crisis, despite an energy crisis, and despite an economic crisis, and we\u2019ve got serious issues with our basic infrastructure. As Chris Bishop has described it, we have become an obstruction economy. Well, we now find ourselves in a position of infrastructure vulnerability\u2014a position where those that we need to invest have just lost the confidence to want to invest. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EIn regards to the 149 projects included in Schedule 2 of the bill, they include housing, aquaculture, infrastructure\u2014including 180 kilometres of new road, rail, and public transport routes\u2014quarries, renewable energy, and, yes, mining. This bill will provide confidence and will provide the ability to plan our transition to renewable energy, and I quote Alan McDonald from the Employers and Manufacturers Association, who said that \u201CGiven the recent issues caused by higher energy prices and the demands on generation capacity to further electrify the economy, these new fast-tracked projects have increasing significance.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThis country also has a housing crisis. Again, this bill will go a long way to addressing this. We heard through the submission process of the sheer frustration from those that wanted to get a consent about the time and the cost to do so, and we need to get this country moving again. We\u2019ve got an economic crisis. We need this bill to help facilitate that investment in projects such as aquaculture and roading projects, and I quote Nick Leggett from Infrastructure New Zealand, who said that the list of projects was \u201Cbalanced\u201D and that \u201Cit really speaks to the need this country has to get its act together and build some infrastructure\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EThere are roading projects, quarries, and, yes, also utilising the minerals that we need because we have choices to make as a country with minerals. We can create jobs, we can create economic growth, we can create export income that helps us pay our bills and provide the services to New Zealanders, and we can have control through the fast-track build process of the environmental impact and the conditions that are contingent with the projects, or we can have no jobs, no economic growth, and no export income, and continue to import those minerals that we need in our everyday lives and have no control whatsoever on the environmental impacts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003EI quote Gary Taylor, who is the chairman and the executive director of the Environmental Defence Society. He has conceded that \u201Cwhile I come from an environmental perspective, I am also a Kiwi interested in economic welfare of our nation, and a lot of the infrastructure projects look good to go to me, subject to environmental assessment \u2026 a lot of the renewable projects, a lot of the housing projects, although there are obviously important questions about\u00A0impacts from them \u2026 a lot of them are all good to go\u201D. There is a process in the bill to\u00A0assess environmental impacts. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3fa0133bdb44624bc086f2b9842c623\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3fa0133bdb44624bc086f2b9842c623\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It is a tough day for democracy, and a tough day for my ears as I listen to the information shared from the previous speaker, Mike Butterick, and other speakers in this Government. When the deputy chair of the Environment Committee talks about the fact we have a housing crisis\u2014yes, we have a housing crisis. Therefore, Mr Deputy Chair, why not ensure that K\u0101inga Ora is building the houses that we in Government actually put in place? Why not come to New Plymouth and make sure that those houses that we had planned and that were budgeted for were actually being built? If you want to\u00A0talk about the housing crisis, then take some responsibility for the fact that you and your\u2014that the Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1a3fb80ab014a83810d4ea8434606c7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220801007e2fe945fd869515074e0078b6\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is actually making decisions and making choices that have implications for our housing space, which has nothing to do with this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003ENow, our world is burning, and if you look around at what is going on, I feel like this Government is just throwing fuel into that fire, literally\u2014literally. Nature is in retreat, it is under attack, and this Government is fast tracking its way to collapse those things. For example, if you look around the world and you look at New Zealand in terms of our biodiversity, and we are one of the worst offenders in terms of what\u2019s going on. Almost two-thirds of rare ecosystems are threatened with collapse. We have the high\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1452c2ff1d6490cb2b8be9506c5efb6\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, Labour is very rare in New Plymouth. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f441419a5a5f407ebfbd28036345108d\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, sir, I really appreciate that comment, but it\u2019s no laughing matter, actually, when we talk about things like the destruction of our ecosystems and the destruction of things like birds and creatures that have lived here for millions and billions of years, and that you choose just to make a joke about it is unacceptable. When you look at 90\u00A0percent of seabirds being under threat, when you look at 84 percent of reptiles\u00A0being under threat, when you look at 76 percent of freshwater fish being under threat\u2014when you look at\u00A0all of these things, and this is an underestimation of what is potentially happening, we need\u00A0to\u00A0make sure that nature and that the environment is in this bill. What are you afraid of?\u00A0What are you afraid of in terms of the purpose of the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d37f0a556534193831409cb88c2d3e4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CWhat is the Government afraid of?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f3bc353e104989abdd8db639375bcb\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government afraid of\u2014it\u2019s hard, Madam Speaker, when it gets really angry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0aff66884f64cdbb3a59def386cfc8d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I know it\u2019s hard\u2014the word \u201Cyou\u201D. I know it\u2019s hard, and other people have done it too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c23f8ae86264f26ab8b61ad80f97055\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Part of me rages, because\u2014why? What is the fear of the Government to put into the purpose of the bill \u201Cenvironmental protections\u201D\u2014what is it that this Government is afraid of and why would they not do that? That is my question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EWe look at the Minister who championed the bill this afternoon, the Hon Shane Jones, and he spoke of this Government presenting this bill under urgency back in March because it\u2019s so important and this is such complex and important legislation. Well, that didn\u2019t give them many months to write the legislation, and as we listened through the submission process, there was person after person, submitter after submitter, who said that this legislation is undercooked. This is actually something that doesn\u2019t just happen overnight and appear. This legislation is undercooked, and it needs to go back to the drawing board and be rewritten\u2014we heard, time and time again, submissions coming through about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EWhen we listened to the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, the Hon Simon Upton, a previous National Party Minister\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1f55910d73e4d6fab7b06c63145dddf\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CRt Hon\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220398acfe05c24cf8939293280326aa1b\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the Rt Hon Simon Upton\u2014he talked about this bill lacking many of the environmental safeguards that the predecessor legislation contained. He talked about\u00A0the significant risks to our environment. This is someone whom this Parliament commissions to make sure that we have the checks and balances in place to ensure that New Zealand is a place that is a leader in the world when it comes to our environmental protections. He even talked about Muldoon\u2019s National Development Act of 1979 having far more environmental protections in place than this piece of legislation. He talked about the fact that this would achieve suboptimal outcomes, poor decision-making, and, in fact, a lack of legislative durability, and also the fact that the litigation risks are high because of\u00A0this bill being so undercooked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EI want to take a moment to consider one of the submitters who spoke, and he was a farmer from the Tararua area. He was talking with regard to the Puketoi Wind Farm and the process of consents for that, and he talked about social cohesion and the importance of ensuring that we bring communities with us. As I listened to this farmer speak, he was vehemently opposed at the beginning to this wind farm being built next to his farm. The community was opposed to this, and, through the process we currently have, they worked, they listened, the company understood the challenges, then they made changes to the design and to the placement of that wind farm, to the point where this farmer said that he and his community sat comfortably with that wind farm being built near them, because they had been listened to. They were not only listened to; action had been taken where they\u2019d actually made sure that that wind farm worked for the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EThat is a submission that I think is significant, because this legislation is just about ignoring locals. This legislation is about ignoring hap\u016B, ignoring iwi, and ignoring neighbours. This legislation actually is about shutting down participation in the democratic process. It\u2019s about\u00A0shutting down social cohesion and involvement. Even members of the electricity companies, the lines companies, talked about this. Clarus, which used to be Firstgas, talked about the fact that they have pipes running throughout the North Island that are on farmers\u2019 land and that are on communities\u2019 land, and a big part of their job is around community engagement to build social cohesion because they know it\u2019s a privilege for them to have their products on the land of landowners. We need to consider that although there have been some changes, this bill still does not allow for the community and it does not allow for local iwi or hap\u016B to actually engage and challenge some of the processes and some of the things that have been thrown on this piece of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003ENow, I want to talk about our international obligations, because this concerns me. This concerns me greatly. This concerns me, and I know that for us on this side of the House, it was a key part of our discussions towards the end of the select committee process. Many submitters raised the challenge of what this is going to mean for our international trade obligations, and also talked about things like the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the global biodiversity framework, and the Paris Agreement and our obligations to the climate. We did not get advice that was reasonable, and I\u2019m sure everyone who sat on that committee can agree to the fact that we were not informed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EAs a committee, we do not and could not tell this House and tell this country that this piece of legislation, as it comes back to the House and is read a second time today\u2014we don\u2019t understand fully the consequences of what this bill will do in terms of our international obligations. For us, as the Labour Party, that is highly concerning, and I know that the other parties in Opposition agree with me on that, as well. We had inadequate advice on the consequences of this legislation on our international obligations, and I think that that is something that the Government needs to seriously consider. We have amendments that we have already tabled and we will continue to table in the committee of the whole House stage, and we hope that this Government seriously considers them, because if this becomes law, then I think all parliamentarians will want to know that at least with regard to our obligations internationally, we will honour them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EI want to close with just some quotes from some of the submitters. As we heard, many were unable to be heard, but for the few that we did hear from, I want to close with some of those reflections and thoughts. \u201CDemocracy takes time\u201D\u2014democracy takes time. As I listened to that, I thought, yes, we understand, and I know that, in the Labour Party, we\u2019ve talked about thinking through some of the challenges when it comes to a one-stop shop, or\u00A0how we do actually fund properly the process of consenting. But democracy takes time.\u00A0\u201CWe want a fast track, not a short track.\u201D, and then another submitter talked about how this\u00A0is 19th century thinking. \u201CThis bill is the worst ever to be presented to this Parliament.\u201D, a submitter said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to say the final quote from a submitter. They said that \u201CDemocracy works best when everyone has a voice.\u201D\u2014democracy works best when everyone has a voice\u2014and I believe that that is important for us, as a lean, mean democracy in New Zealand. This legislation does not allow that, and we cannot commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022866ca651cdbe4a4784f15871bc5467eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022866ca651cdbe4a4784f15871bc5467eb\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.03 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022 data-id=\u002284148b8907584d6f8c895fa5814cd4c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284148b8907584d6f8c895fa5814cd4c4\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier):\u003C/span\u003E Look, I just want to say that it is a pleasure to speak on this bill, which the Environment Committee has spent such a long time working on. There is a lot to say, but, first, I just want to acknowledge the committee and all the people that joined us for the hearings and submissions, because, of course, there were many and it did take many hands to make light work, and there were a lot of hours spent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003EI just wanted to acknowledge, first, that members opposite are talking a lot about the nature of the bill as it was introduced, but it\u2019s important to remind those who are listening of both sides of this, because, of course, it was a draft. It\u2019s the first reading when it\u2019s introduced, and they know that it\u2019s about to go through this process. They were honest about the fact that it could have been better, and, of course, that was the part that we played, as a select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003EI think it was really amazing for us to walk away from this process, knowing that we had had some incredibly constructive submissions, and in those submissions, in some cases, I felt incredibly lucky to have had free legal advice, actually. There were some really helpful things. If you read the debate on the first reading and saw how this bill went in, and see now how the bill has come out, you will see what has changed. If you were to go through painstakingly\u2014as it would be\u2014every single submission that was put through, listen to the public hearings, and see, you will see the process and how we came about the change, and I think that that\u2019s a really important thing to consider. Look, it is our job, as a select committee, to go through this process. We did hear from thousands of people and some of them were incredibly constructive, and I do say, very often, that this is not a poll. It is not our job to weigh each individual submission; it\u2019s our job to consider them, and, because of that, the bill is now in a better place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003EOne thing that struck me was the feedback that it is the complicated parallel processes that were the most difficult thing that got in the way, and in some cases it\u2019s as simple as reconsenting a power station. I have a power station in my electorate, up in T\u016Bai, a very remote part of New Zealand, and this power station provides power to almost the entire settlement of Wairoa, which is a very special place to me. One of the projects that could get fast-track consent is the hydro energy station in T\u016Bai. Now, this is just reconsenting. This is an existing power station, but the processes that they have to go through, as it stands, are so complicated that we are risking cutting the power to the entire settlement of Wairoa, and this is something that is very important for people to understand. It is not just controversial projects; it is complicated projects that are going to benefit from this process, and, as people have said, they are those complicated parallel processes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003EI just wanted to highlight in this legislation the many different laws and Acts that the bill will go through: the Resource Management Act\u2014as we know\u2014the Conservation Act, the Reserves Act, the Wildlife Act, the Heritage New Zealand Act, the Freshwater Fisheries Regulations, the Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf (Environmental Effects) Act, the Crown Minerals Act, the Public Works Act, and the Fisheries Act. Some of these projects would have to deal with over half of those different Acts, and that is what has complicated it, and the feedback that we got was that in many cases it\u2019s the one-stop shop\u00A0aspect of what we\u2019re introducing that is most important. The slow pace and the tediousness is not necessarily because there is one Act that is taking such a long time; it\u2019s that they have to go through so many different parallel processes, and that is what this bill does\u2014it amalgamates those processes. It says, \u201CWe acknowledge that as a regionally significant project, you are going to be more likely to be complicated, there are going to be\u00A0more hoops for you to jump through, and we don\u2019t want that to get in the way of progress\u00A0for our regions or for our country.\u201D\u2014and that is what is so important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003EBuilding roads, repowering power stations, building housing developments that are affordable housing, business parks, recreation parks\u2014this is the kind of stuff that this bill is aiming to solve, and it is an important thing for us to do. I have been pleased to be part of the process, the rigorous process that our select committee has gone through, and, with that, I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u0022eee0de10607a40b1b1e5eba0a0f5b03f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eee0de10607a40b1b1e5eba0a0f5b03f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Mana Whakaw\u0101. You know, something smells rotten about this bill, and\u2014[Interruption] Yeah, and I can see why there are murmurings on the other side. I can understand that because many of those members will be as uncomfortable as I am about this list. I mean, Radio New Zealand did a great job: $500,000 of donations from people who are on the fast-track list, and there\u2019s no good explanation for that. I\u2019m concerned that there are close connections between donors, members of the National Party, and the fact that they\u2019re on this list. I mean, one of the people who made donations, in fact, made the comment. He said donating was there because he\u2019s \u201Clooking to be heard\u201D. Well, that donor appears to have been heard. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThere are projects on this list which have been thoroughly considered by the relevant panels and courts and have been turned down\u2014turned down for environmental reasons, turned down because the project wasn\u2019t needed, turned down because there wasn\u2019t the resource to support the developments that were proposed\u2014and the Environment Committee didn\u2019t get to consider them. In Canterbury, one of those projects was the Carter Group project. Philip Carter of Carter Holdings, uncle to Matt Doocey\u2014donor of $60,000. I asked the Prime Minister, in written question No. 66395, \u201CDid Matt Doocey recuse himself from any consideration, deliberation or decision-making in respect of the Fast-track projects and in particular those concerning the Carter Group Limited?\u201D The Prime Minister gave me a long answer. I needed one word\u2014\u201Cno\u201D\u2014and he didn\u2019t give me that word. That\u2019s problematic. I want to be sure that we have a transparent decision-making process, one where conflicts of interest are clearly and openly and effectively managed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThe Carter Group is a donor. The Carter Group has a direct family relationship into this House, and this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c72b4c8f87f14d3586615e96baa074f8\u0022\u003EHon Scott Simpson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I have hesitated while I\u2019ve been listening to the member on his feet making inappropriate imputations and assertions and veiled allegations that are inappropriate in a debate of this sort. I would invite you to consider the content of the words that he has been making, in consideration of appropriate Standing Orders, and ask him to desist from this type of insinuation during this debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228773ed9ac3cb412caff611f4a5c9b9a2\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Simpson. I was just about to mention to Mr Webb that in naming the names as you\u2019ve gone, you are getting close to, if not crossing, a line, and I think you can make your point with the generalities which you began your speech with. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228786b4f98c6a44ef8f43085dbf3dd42f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that guidance, Mr Speaker. Every one of those statements I\u2019ve made can be found in the Radio New Zealand article, and I invite people to look at it. There are plenty more. There is a list, and we know that a Minister had a dinner, which he omitted to disclose, with people who are now on the list of the fast-track projects. I\u2019m deeply concerned that this country\u2019s position as somewhere where people do business honestly, transparently, by the rules, and on an equal footing is at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThe Government can take points of order and be uncomfortable and squirm when it\u2019s pointed out to them, but I won\u2019t stop pointing out that there are critical shortcomings in this procedure, because the fact is that we can\u2019t examine what\u2019s going on. It is a black box, and we are being told \u201CDon\u2019t worry. We\u2019ve managed the conflicts of interest.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThe Prime Minister informs me that there was a letter which I\u2019ve read outlining how the key Ministers will recuse themselves from projects that they\u2019ve had particular and personal contact with. Chris Bishop himself has stated that he\u2019s recused himself from the project where he advocated in favour of that developer prior to the election, as he should. Those kinds of close connections are uncomfortable\u2014they are deeply uncomfortable\u2014and that party on the other side should be ashamed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022 data-id=\u00220ceee5e414b846c5a0fa9f43beaee5e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ceee5e414b846c5a0fa9f43beaee5e7\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Well, if there was any doubt where the Grinch was going to be hiding this Christmas, I\u2019d be looking in central Christchurch, because what we\u2019ve heard is an Opposition and a Labour Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022073b514016e146998c3479fde08ee6a4\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re not serious. Give us one serious speech\u2014come on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dd32cf9fe9e483080b0ccd8f47757c5\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Ooh! We\u2019ve touched a nerve tonight, haven\u2019t we? They don\u2019t just want to kill this bill; they want to kill 55,000 new homes for hard-working Kiwis that just want to get a chance, that just want to get a break, and that want more houses. We are in the middle of a housing crisis. Here are 44 developments with 55,000 homes, and they\u2019re saying, \u201CNo, we don\u2019t want that\u2014oh, we don\u2019t want that.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EThen they\u2019re saying, \u201CWe don\u2019t just want to kill them, we want to kill 180 kilometres of new roads.\u201D\u2014just like they killed the \u014Ctaki to North of Levin Expressway in 2018. Everyone in our region, in Horowhenua, knows exactly the impact that had\u2014the needless deaths that we experienced on that road\u2014because of the six years of delay. It\u2019s back on track now, but 180 kilometres of new roads coming in just the first tranche\u2014that\u2019s what this bill unlocks. They want to kill that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EThey want to kill 3,000 megawatts of new, sustainable power generation\u2014new generation\u2014like a new solar farm in Foxton. That is transformational for a town like Foxton, and Labour is saying \u201CWe don\u2019t want it, we don\u2019t want it, we don\u2019t want it.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EThey don\u2019t want a billion dollars of new revenue for this country from mineral exports. They don\u2019t want a chance at growth. They want to kill growth. They want to kill our economy\u2014that\u2019s what they\u2019re campaigning for here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you the difference it makes in a community like \u014Ctaki. In our region alone, it means 3,400 new homes, it means a new solar farm, and it means integrated rail mobility and improving public transport. That\u2019s what this bill is doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EI note that Mr Parker is the one sitting quietly, as he should because he wrote the bones of this. We\u2019ve made a few improvements, but it is the same principle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EWe need to cut through this. We have tied ourselves up in red and green tape in this country, and we can\u2019t keep going like this. We need to unlock potential. We need to tell the world that we are open for business, with a whole pipeline of infrastructure, and that\u2019s what this bill is doing. I am so proud to stand here in support of this bill and in support of my region, because we need the five specific projects that come from it but, more than that, our whole country needs it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EFifty-five thousand houses, sustainable power generation, new roads, flood protection\u2014that\u2019s what we need. We need to unlock our potential and get this country back on track. That\u2019s what this bill does. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u0022aca523da106f41ec9a4e7da54e8ec9fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aca523da106f41ec9a4e7da54e8ec9fa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s quite fortuitous, then, that I have the next call, because I\u2019m going to educate the member Tim Costley\u2014who obviously hasn\u2019t been paying attention to the debate\u2014to understand the important differences between this version of fast track and the other, earlier versions for which I was proudly responsible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003ENow, it is true that New Zealand\u2019s cost of consenting projects has been far too high. In\u00A0fact, when we were in Government there was a study done, led by the Infrastructure Commission, proving that New Zealand\u2019s cost of consenting mid-size infrastructure was higher than the top end of the range for Europe. Over 5 percent of the project cost was being spent on the consenting process, which was far too high. What did we do? We fixed that. We introduced a version of fast track which overcame most of the problems. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThere is one aspect of this legislation that I do support in principle, which is combining the decision making under various other pieces of legislation, including the Conservation Act and the Reserves Act, but only if the tests that apply under those pieces of legislation still apply and are not overridden in the process, because what that does when you do that is mistake the substance of proper decision-making with the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EWhat did we do in Government? Well, we introduced a fast-track process which cut through the red tape and which the National Party says this is modelled upon, and in one part it is actually modelled upon it. Why is that? Because the National Party knew it worked, even though they repealed it as soon as they got into office, which was absolutely ridiculous and wasteful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EWhat was consented under our process and what was the difference? Well, we consented many thousands of sections, apartment buildings, business parks, retirement villages\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b5845e05a764c208728487c1b399536\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Quarries. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233a8ea590f014ca1865c150ca480f6e7\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: Did we do some quarries? I think we did. We did some quarries, and that was held up at one stage with a problem with some of the wetland rules, which we also fixed. We consented New Zealand\u2019s first big solar farms\u2014really good decisions, if you read them; I thought the panels did a really good job of that, considering new issues like reflection from photovoltaic panels for people who live nearby. We consented wind farms. The legislation enabled the re-consenting of hydro facilities and other electricity facilities, although not new hydro facilities, which, in our view, should go through a full process, because if you dam a large river you change that river environment for ever, and that should be the subject of public participation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThere were a number of safeguards in that legislation which didn\u2019t slow the process down, but included the fact that we only changed the process, not the environmental test. There was no need to override the Resource Management Act (RMA) or any of the other legislation which is there to protect the environment from undue harm\u2014not from any harm, but from inappropriate harm. Another protection was that there were parties that could, effectively, represent the public interest or sectors of the public interest, and the legislation that we passed enabled the likes of the Environmental Defence Society and Forest \u0026amp; Bird\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd65179ebc0d462cbf68d6a3002351b6\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Business New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279136c546ef048d9a657915b4612daa6\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and Business New Zealand\u2014it was both sides of the of the debate; development interests and the protection interests\u2014to, as of right, make written submissions and, through that process, be heard on every one of those applications. Do you know what? Ninety-five percent of the applications that were made through our fast-track process were approved and, indeed, of the 5 percent that weren\u2019t, there were probably some\u00A0applications that were withdrawn or that proceeded through some other process outside of fast track. We had a process that was principled and worked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s the difference between that and the current process? The current process doesn\u2019t just change the process; it enables the decision maker to override RMA plans to actually allow activities that are prohibited under the Resource Management Act or under Resource Management Act plans, or are contrary to the legal requirements of the Conservation Act or the Wildlife Act or the heritage protection legislation, to name but some. That is the major difference between this legislation and that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThere are a number of other differences. For example, this legislation comes back to the House worse than the state it was when it went to select committee, in one important regard. After tens of thousands of people submitted against the legislation and even more demonstrated up and down the country in public protests, and at the one in Auckland, the people were still leaving Aotea Square when they were filing into the square outside Britomart because it was such an enormous protest\u2014notwithstanding that, the legislation is made worse by stripping out any reference to the environment in the purpose of the bill so that not only can they override all that legislation but the purpose of the bill is only development. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EAnother thing that they\u2019ve done through this legislation and the list of projects that are\u00A0up first time is they are introducing projects that have previously been declined. Now, anyone can always apply for reconsideration of something that has been rejected, but to give them a hand up through the ability to override the environmental protections that lie\u00A0at the heart of the likes of the Resource Management Act or the Conservation Act is, in my opinion, wrong. If the Government wanted to change the Conservation Act because they thought that court decisions had made too narrow land-swaps or offsetting under the\u00A0Conservation Act, the Government should have brought a bill to that effect to this Parliament. They shouldn\u2019t have taken to themselves the ability to give a panel an instruction that they can override the Conservation Act, rather than apply it. That is another mistake that is made in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThe Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment is no radical. The Rt Hon Simon Upton has in the past been the secretary for the environment for the OECD, probably the highest environmental office ever held by a New Zealander. He is a former National Minister for the Environment, and he said that this legislation is wrong and is worse than the National Development Act under Muldoon, which was so criticised at the time, after pushing through projects for Think Big. He further made the point that if this legislation was to proceed and override the environmental protections normally found in legislation, then that right should be limited to projects that are of a public benefit. There are occasions when there is a case for overriding normal environmental protections. I would say that those exceptions are already well provided for under the Resource Management Act through infrastructure exceptions to the protections of wetlands and biodiversity and the like. If the Government thought that that was not the case, they should have taken these powers for only public projects, rather than projects for a private benefit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003ENow, we heard from the Hon Duncan Webb the shady side of this, and those were not his words alone; they were quoting media commentary. We, in this House, do have freedom of speech in order to raise to the House and the public of New Zealand the risk of corruption that can occur if Ministers can give private interests a leg-up in respect of private projects that confer a private benefit overriding normal laws, and that\u2019s all that Duncan Webb was doing. He was perfectly proper to do so because he was right that that is another risk from this bill, and many, many submitters pointed to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EScott Simpson, at one level, did a very pleasant job of administering the chair for this bill\u2014and he is a decent chair\u2014but, by goodness, he\u2019s going to be at risk in the Coromandel election next time, isn\u2019t he, because he has, effectively, brought through legislation which is\u00A0incompatible with the values of most of his voters in the Coromandel. He is not only overseeing the unwinding of water regulation and the taking of money, as a Government, away from waste management to put to other things, because they\u2019ve cut the money; he\u2019s actually been in charge of the select committee that has brought forward this terrible legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThis legislation is entirely unnecessary. The earlier form of fast track was working well. It changed process, it saved money, and 95 percent of the projects that went through it were consented. Some of the other huge projects, like the first ever waste-to-energy project in New Zealand\u2014a large one\u2014is going to go through fast track without even proper consideration of the greenhouse gas implications of a project like that. This is poor legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022 data-id=\u0022373d73921d2c4dd39db5aeb1d15fdb07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022373d73921d2c4dd39db5aeb1d15fdb07\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E I rise in the second reading to support the Fast-track Approvals Bill. I am the last speaker in this debate, and so I think it gives me a chance to kind of correct some of the things that we\u2019ve been hearing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EThis bill is about a one-stop shop for approvals for projects which are of national or regional benefit, because, as we\u2019ve heard, New Zealand has an obstructionist economy. To prove a point, I\u2019ll just pick two examples, but in the select committee we heard many more. The Raetihi Hydro Dam\u2014an existing dam\u2014took 18 years to reconsent\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208ef0db55571454a96ad913b8ac4a6df\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: When was that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268fe2310d1564ab39cd86a1d05f53de7\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I appreciate that the other side are going to say that they had fast-track legislation to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EI will get to some of those numbers: 65 percent were actually consented through that legislation, 16 percent are still in the process, and 11 percent fell into a black hole of who knows what. A medium track would be a complement. Then, if we look at some of the other things, the Mill Creek wind farm took 1,437 days to consent, and we\u2019ve just heard from the other side that re-consenting is different to new. This was a new thing. It was a wind farm that took close to four years to actually gain a consent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EIf we\u2019re going to achieve our ambitious goal of boosting our economy and reducing our emissions, we need to make a fundamental change to our planning and regulatory settings, and before us today, this bill represents a vital step towards that\u2014a brighter future for all New Zealanders. We\u2019ve already heard about some of the projects. In Schedule 2, there are projects that, if approved, will deliver up to 55,000 sections, 3,000 megawatts of renewable energy, and 43 infrastructure projects enabling 180 kilometres for roads, rail, and public transport routes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EThe fast-track bill is about more than just efficiency; it\u2019s about a vision. It\u2019s about creating a future where all New Zealanders can have access to affordable housing, where our economy is powered by clean energy, and where our communities are connected by modern and efficient infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003ENow, we heard from the other side that we\u2019re going to disrupt our international trade, but the Opposition did fail to mention that in the select committee process, we heard that the UK currently actually has a centralised planning process like this for large infrastructure projects. Did they mention that? No, they didn\u2019t. The EU has adopted a fast-track permit-granting process for renewable energy projects. They\u2019re also exploring options to speed up permitting for critical raw materials to make sure that mining can support their green digital transition. Did they mention that? No, they didn\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EThere have been a number of things that have been said in this debate, but I think we\u00A0really need to make sure that we actually get the point of this. We can develop and protect our environment, we can grow to our net zero\u2014and that\u2019s what we\u2019ve got to do. We have not heard about the environmental expertise that is on the panel, which, just like\u00A0our Resource Management Act, can put conditions on these projects. It is something that we\u2019re well aware of in this country. Therefore, I urge everybody to support this bill, and join me in building a brighter future for our nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u0022a1910860f9b54119857dc36e5e06ff84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a1910860f9b54119857dc36e5e06ff84\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the amendments recommended by the Environment Committee by majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002213be7ffbe91a4a3e82bf594de8a8ea73\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 48\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000634\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 68, Noes 49.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022ac21adff7ad347c98bbba69afbdc53f5\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Fast-track Approvals Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000635\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000636\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 68, Noes 55.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u0022e466ca24db1040d08b1062523494bc18\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e466ca24db1040d08b1062523494bc18\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is set down for committee stage next sitting day. I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224e5822bbd40a40e88c9cb0e30bf91e2e\u0022\u003EBuilding (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d0fbd4b796e84e098dc5089e066d7e1d\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002252a21dae9d8645638dda5cf889513555\u0022\u003EPart 1  Amendments to principal Act\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022098e77453b91477ea82cb266e6ce0112\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022098e77453b91477ea82cb266e6ce0112\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. We begin with the debate on Part 1. Part 1 is the debate on clause 3 to 30, \u201CAmendments to [the Building Act 2004]\u201D; and the Schedule. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u00228758cb5ff0cc4da88a13de8f9550b1a7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228758cb5ff0cc4da88a13de8f9550b1a7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I wish members of the committee a good evening, and I just want to start by acknowledging with thanks the debate at the second reading. A lot of very pertinent points were raised in that debate. I think it was a very helpful discussion of the issues. Obviously, I\u2019m in the hands of the committee as to the extent to which members may wish to revisit those issues. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn the spirit of helpfulness, I hope, I will just set out a couple of key points in relation to Part\u00A01\u2014which is really the main, substantive part of the legislation\u2014in case that is helpful to anyone who is in any doubt on our position on these matters. First, it is just to acknowledge that there is an element of retrospectivity. That\u2019s because the Cabinet decision was announced on 2\u00A0April of this year, and, of course, the mere announcement by a Government that it will all be changed isn\u2019t the same thing as that it is all being changed. We don\u2019t govern by fiat in a parliamentary democracy, so it is only now, or, rather, at the third reading and then at the Royal assent of this bill, that the legislation will become effective as a matter of law. We\u2019re saying that back to that date at which we announced that that change will be made, that\u2019s when the rule shall apply, with the rule being that an additional four years shall be allowed to remediate buildings in accordance with the earthquake-prone building regime as it currently stands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EI do also want to acknowledge a point that was emphasised during the second reading debate\u2014particularly by members opposite, and I think that had a good point\u2014which was, first, that this should not be an exercise in kicking the can down the road. So while there is, I think, a reasonable argument for allowing more time, given labour constraints and the capacity of the sector to physically conduct the works, there is also a requirement that we have settings that will enable people to do that in a reasonable and a proportionate way. There is a review taking place in which we think we can end up in a good place in terms of the settings, and so this is an exercise in allowing some time for that review to be conducted, and some certainty in the meantime from a legal perspective that that work can take place where able, or not, as the case may be. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn terms of the \u201CHenry VIII\u201D element, as it would be known in certain circles, which is where there\u2019s an additional power for two years to be granted beyond that four years by the Government\u2014or the Minister, technically\u2014as opposed to that being locked in in primary legislation, I appreciate that the constitutionally minded among us may recognise that that\u2019s an additional power for the executive as opposed to the legislature, but my assurance is that we will not use that power unless it is needed. What I mean by that is that if additional time should be needed following the review and any legislation needed to give effect to new settings, and then to allow a reasonable period of time for people to comply with the settings, particularly if they are in any way more onerous\u2014we don\u2019t expect that, but we cover ourselves for every eventuality. That additional time may be needed for people to get up to those standards. For that reason, we hope that there will be clarity and certainty provided through this mechanism. I\u2019m grateful for the support we received at the second reading for that, and, indeed, harking back to the very constructive select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EFor the sake of completeness, and in the hope of getting as far along in the debate as possible in an opening contribution, I do note that some other changes to the Building Act are\u00A0made. I don\u2019t intend to go through those now. Again, it will be in the hands of the committee as to whether colleagues wish to ask us any questions or make comment on those. With that, I\u2014through you, Mr Chair\u2014welcome the discussion and the debate tonight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u002272454d60fe4c4278b05df063e3c60edb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272454d60fe4c4278b05df063e3c60edb\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Labour supports this bill, but we\u2019ll work through clause by clause to ask the Minister to clarify some points which came up not only from submitters in the select committee stage but also in the contributions in the second reading, because there are remaining questions there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s particularly important to, I think, both major parties is that we\u2019re getting the balance here right between the safety of people who are in buildings which we know are earthquake-prone and the ability of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) and of Government to work through the issues which need to be resolved and need to be resolved quickly underlying some of those decisions. It\u2019s really important that MBIE is well resourced and well equipped to not only work through those issues but also to consult with people like the affected Wellington apartment owners, people in Christchurch, and many of the Auckland business owners, because that is, in fact, where most of the earthquake-prone buildings are in terms of numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a big piece of work to do in balancing all of those concerns of building owners as well as people who are affected by the earthquake rules more generally. Members of the public who find themselves in these buildings and might not have the right kind of information to make the kind of choices that homeowners do now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also got almost every Labour Party constitutional law enthusiast down tonight to have it out with the Minister over his use of the \u201CHenry VIII\u201D clauses. This is something that I was happy to be able to join the Regulations Review Committee to work through. The Hon David Parker is here to\u2014you know, there has been a good consideration of those issues. Ultimately, these are things that we need to work through, but also there will often be an appropriate place for executive Government to make a decision about using an element of retrospectivity and giving an amount of licence in the primary legislation to allow for things to be worked through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EThe important point for me on the issues which were considered by the Regulations Review Committee is I would say that that level of flexibility worked into the primary legislation seems appropriate to me at this point. However, we need the assurance of the Minister that that\u2019s not going to be used for, essentially, administrative purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EIf we are serious about getting these rules right, we need to resource it. We shouldn\u2019t be using extensions in legislation to allow for, essentially, problems of the Public Service being under-resourced and not able to complete the tasks in the time. That\u2019s not what we think this is being used for, but it\u2019s helpful for the Minister to put that on record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EFirst, let me move to clause 5, the unsexy part of the bill which gives stand-alone building consent authorities (BCAs) more direction in terms of paying their levies. I want to ask the Minister to explain the status quo to the committee and how it came to be\u2014because the change being made here remedies quite an unusual situation which is not well understood even by the experts who submitted to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee\u2014and whether this change interacts at all with his proposals generally to change the rules for BCAs, and then whether regional and consolidated BCAs of the future will be liable to pay under this provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u0022e8bbb4ec2c57485fb5ad30403fdd98ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e8bbb4ec2c57485fb5ad30403fdd98ce\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I have two questions for the Minister in the chair, Chris Penk, neither about the retrospective nature nor the \u201CHenry VIII\u201D clauses. I think the report deals with those issues and the paper record of the interaction with the Regulations Review Committee can stand on its own stead, and I have no comment to make on that. I think it\u2019s landed at a fair place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EMy first question relates to what work the Minister now intends to carry out, enabled by this legislation, in respect of rarely used buildings. One of the issues that we have, particularly in lesser populated areas, is that there are some very significant historic buildings that are not\u00A0utilised very often, are uneconomic to repair, and are risky if people were in them infrequently. When there was a bad earthquake, the risk to them obviously would be higher than if they were upgraded to a modern standard. None the less, those buildings are rarely used, and there is a case, according to some of the people who live in those areas, that they\u00A0would like, with appropriate notification, to actually be able to, as a community, take the\u00A0risk. Now, obviously, you wouldn\u2019t want to be doing that for schools and hospitals, but will there be consideration given to that trade-off between frequency of use and economics of repair, or will the same standard apply to all buildings eventually, no matter what their rate of use is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EI thought that that was a piece of work that, actually, the Hon Dr Nick Smith tried to do but actually never quite got to the bottom of, and I suspect there\u2019s some work that needs to be done, including in consultation with populations. In the end, obviously, the Government\u2019s going to have to weigh all these issues in the balance and make a decision, but I would hope that the Minister is open to consideration of those complex issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThe second question I had\u2014and I\u2019ve raised this issue previously with the Minister\u2014I\u00A0know some earthquake engineers, some very experienced earthquake engineers, including some who have been involved in writing the codes over the years. I\u2019ve also refurbished some\u00A0high-category historic places buildings myself\u2014wasn\u2019t a happy financial experience. I\u2019ve had a career that\u2019s had its ups and downs, and it\u2019s fair to say this might\u2019ve ended in a \u201Cdown\u201D. It was the precursor to the Civic Theatre in Auckland\u2014the old Empire DeLuxe Theatre in Dunedin, for those that are interested. An unhappy experience for me and others, but through that experience and the interactions that I\u2019ve had with engineers, I have come to learn that Japan, which has a very, very high earthquake risk and high earthquake standards, I\u2019m told takes a more practical approach to the remediation of buildings which enables them\u00A0to be unpicked and the design for the refurbishment and the strengthening of the building to be dynamic as the project proceeds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003ENow, in New Zealand, the habit is that you can\u2019t get the consent for the upgrading until you have proven that the upgrade will meet the new standard. You can\u2019t get a contract that is looser than that with a construction firm because they require the building permit, and risk is reduced for the council and the contractor but the expense goes through the roof because in the absence of full knowledge of the defects in the building or the different ways it could be strengthened. If you can\u2019t wait until you are unpicking the building before you design, you actually have to assume the worst and design for the worst, and therefore the cost can be excessive relative to a simpler regime that might be possible if people can have a system with trained professionals and appropriate checks and balances that enables the design work to be done as the project proceeds. I think that would be a very, very important thing to include in the new regime if we\u2019re going to enable the strengthening of buildings rather than their demolition. I think often it will be the difference between historic buildings\u00A0being bowled over and them being refurbished for reuse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u002266dfc1fd56bc4ddd878d6a32538aba56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266dfc1fd56bc4ddd878d6a32538aba56\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Since we\u2019re moving clause by clause, starting with Subpart 1 of Part 1, I wanted to focus on clause 5 and particularly looking at replacing section 58(1) in the primary Act. One of the things that we\u2019re looking at that\u2019s making a change here is, rather than having the building consent authorities (BCA) paying the territorial authorities at this stage and then going on to, in this case, the chief executive of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE), the amendment moves around that\u2014my understanding is that the BCA is then paying directly to MBIE. But then one of the things that I remember discussing earlier is that it brings up the question of the involvement of the local government in the context of the collection of levy payment and the distribution of levy payment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EMy first question to the Minister for Building and Construction, particularly focusing on the earthquake-prone building component of this bill, is around the involvement and engagement with local government on this particular part of skipping the regional authority or the territorial authority in the collection of levy and potentially in the context of earthquake\u2014sorry, this is actually not about the earthquake-prone; the earthquake-prone comes later. This is about the liability to pay for the levy. In the levy component, what is the advice or opinion or conversations that the Minister has had with local government and local authorities around skipping them in the levy-collection portion? More importantly, when it comes to the payment or the collection of levies, whether previously there were any portions that were allocated to local government and would the local government in this case be, I guess, in some ways, short-changed by skipping them and going directly from the BCA to a Government agency? If the Minister wouldn\u2019t mind clarifying that, that would be great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022 data-id=\u00221238944352f14471a86e55ba568b38ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221238944352f14471a86e55ba568b38ef\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E My question is a very small question, and I\u2019m afraid it is not to do with the \u201CKing Henry VIII\u201D clause either\u2014I\u2019m sorry to disappoint the Minister for Building and Construction on this\u2014but it is to do with the definitions of \u201Cterritorial authority\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003EIn amended section 7(1), inserted by clause 4, in the interpretation of \u201Cstand-alone building consent authority\u201D, it means something \u201Cthat is not (a) a territorial authority; or (b) a regional authority\u201D, and that regional authority is defined in the principal Act as including a unitary authority, but in the Local Government Act, really, unitary authorities often operate as territorial authorities. Then, in replacement section 62, inserted by clause 7, there\u2019s reference to\u2014and it continues through\u2014territorial authorities. I\u2019m just wondering how that relates back to this separation of a territorial authority or a regional authority in amended section 7(1), inserted by clause 4(1), and if, in fact, at replacement section 62, inserted by clause 7, and other clauses, that will include unitary authorities, which I presume are often the building authority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u002243b87d1ee0f34bab8c1bc25cc307fbe1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002243b87d1ee0f34bab8c1bc25cc307fbe1\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Looking forward to some answers about the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261eff09eb5734342aa483a47c5a7d291\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: At this stage, we\u2019ve had some good contextual questions, and now I\u2019d quite like to see us going through a series of questions and answers. It does require the Minister and everyone to get involved, but it would be nice to give it a try.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e15abd105049b791772015caddb29e\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: Very good, Mr Chair. In relation to clause 6, the amendment to section 59, is it the case that this change means that a liability arises before the full amount of the liability is known?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u002206e9649f13c849d4a26a87123dfd7cec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206e9649f13c849d4a26a87123dfd7cec\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the opportunity to respond to a number of contributions that have been made in different areas. I\u2019m grateful for the breadth of the discussion already, at this early stage\u2014or perhaps this late stage, depending on how far we go, he said hopefully. Can I start by\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223309cb599b044c1d932a45e79af8f151\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t book your taxi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd54267b2e40471cb921d68a7be9c968\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: I might have already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279e4b27c6aea48299d1b885862a3730c\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: You sound like Prince Charles talking about himself in the third\u00A0person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022500d4f442bcc40cc97bdab3d899fc6a3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister couldn\u2019t possibly comment. The points made by Arena Williams make a very valid point around the need for balance in general. Of course, the proportional approach in a scenario would be looking to balance risk, life safety, and also the resilience of buildings on the one hand but also the cost, and therefore the ability for people to make the changes, is a major theme in all this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn terms of the balance that she identifies about the need to operate at speed but also to get the detail right, I think that\u2019s a very fair point to note, including in relation to the extensions. In terms of the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) having the resources to conduct the required work in the relevant time period, I\u2019m very confident. I can say I\u2019ve been highly impressed and grateful to the good people of MBIE for working with me very closely on this matter from the very start, including in relation to the establishment of the expert review panel. They comprise some of the membership of that, but there\u2019s also a broad range of individuals who are very expert from a number of different perspectives, including local government and led by an excellent chair in Dr Erica Seville. She has a PhD in risk management, so a very relevant background to these questions\u2014and a background in\u00A0engineering too, I might add\u2014that we are grappling with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn terms of the review, I do note that the legislation is in relation to an extension rather than the review, but to the extent that people have made valid points about the subject as a whole, I do want to address those, with your indulgence, because they\u2019ve been posed in good faith and represent a very articulate expression of some of the key things that we do need to deal with. Of course, the only reason that we are seeking\u2014well, one of the reasons that we\u2019re seeking an extension, is to enable that review to take place and these questions to be addressed. To Arena Williams, I say that I\u2019m very confident that MBIE itself, and the panel that will be working closely with MBIE, is well resourced to carry out this work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn terms of clause 5, which is a non - earthquake-related point that she makes, and others have made too\u2014I\u2019ll try and tie the points together, regardless of them having come from different parts of the Chamber\u2014I note that it will be more efficient for a stand-alone building authority to make the payments directly to MBIE. I\u2019ve not heard from local government any sense in which they would somehow be shortchanged by not being the conduit of that payment. It\u2019s actually quite an unusual scenario; it\u2019s actually unique at the moment to K\u0101inga Ora (KO), that\u2019s the only stand-alone building authority\u2014well, the only stand-alone building authority full-stop\u2014that is to say, it\u2019s the only building authority that currently exists that is not either a territorial authority or a regional authority. That is a fine distinction that the Hon Rachel Brooking rightly makes, but I think it\u2019s worth noting that there is such a thing as a territorial authority with responsibilities under the Building Act that are separate from the building consent authority, or BCA, functions that are exercised at the moment only by territorial authorities\u2014roughly, in another language, district, and city council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EI think at the moment the key distinction there is that there\u2019s a building consent authority\u2014that is, K\u0101inga Ora\u2014that is not currently accounted for, and because the legislation doesn\u2019t currently contemplate its existence, what we\u2019ve got now is a situation where KO needs to pay to the relevant local authority a levy which then in turn needs to be passed on to MBIE. It\u2019ll be more efficient to act in that more direct way. I should note that, even in terms of the law as it currently exists, there is potential for stand-alone building authorities that are not K\u0101inga Ora, and there\u2019s at least one organisation that is seeking accreditation. That\u2019s not a decision for me. The question is, at the moment, whether such an outfit would have adequate \u201Cmeans\u201D to fulfil that task, but separate to that, and going to another question posed by Arena Williams, the legislation here doesn\u2019t actually contemplate reforms that we have since announced, whereby we\u2019re interested in the possibility that BCAs might be something other than the current, essentially, council-based, set up along the lines that there may be a regional approach on a voluntary or involuntary basis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn my remaining time, but also highlighting that I\u2019d be keen to continue just to address all those questions that have been asked. In terms of underutilised buildings, I think the point is very well made, and the Hon David Parker, in addition to the hat that he\u2019s worn in relation to that very worthy work of the Regulations Review Committee, makes an excellent point which demonstrates the difficulties that are faced at the moment in terms of how risk is recognised, how it\u2019s weighted, how it\u2019s understood and also accepted. I\u2019m pleased to say that the terms of the inquiry explicitly includes an item to be addressed whereby disclosure might, at least to some extent, be regarded as meaningful in terms of accepting risk of those who use buildings. That is to say, if informed consent to a degree of risk might be accepted by users\u2014perhaps by owners, by occupants\u2014then that is something that we are keen to explore in a very holistic review of the settings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022657df3b6e3e54026a4c315326ce07ce2\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: Otherwise, no one would ever go into the Leaning Tower of Pisa.\u00A0\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bafbc3fdbe140a79906e59e9bfa43a3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014well, quite. The point about the Leaning Tower of Pisa is\u2014for those who missed it\u2014I think, an apt one, but I also would add that we do need to be mindful of the risk also associated with those who are perhaps passersby, those who are involuntarily or unwittingly required to be in the building. I say \u201Cunwittingly\u201D in the sense they might know the building but might not be in a position to assess the risk by carefully reading a notice, whether that\u2019s for reasons of a language barrier or in terms of their understanding of what the risk is that they\u2019re actually acknowledging and accepting. Even that\u2019s not a straightforward question itself, but at least it is a possibility. As I say, the terms of reference for the review have contemplated that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003ETo the question of frequency of use: again, that goes to a broader question of a proportional approach; a benefit-cost analysis, again, specifically contemplated and, I think, actually required by the terms of reference. Of course, it\u2019s difficult to calculate benefit versus cost when we\u2019re talking about a huge amount of cost to mitigate risk in a very unlikely event in any given year, but which would have huge consequences were it to take place. These aren\u2019t straightforward matters, even mathematically, to work out\u2014let alone philosophically\u2014but that\u2019s the task with which we\u2019ve engaged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EInteresting about the Japanese scenario. We\u2019ve, again, explicitly contemplated, in the terms of reference, that overseas jurisdictions\u2019 handling of the same questions, essentially, along different fault lines geographically but with the equivalent issues being faced elsewhere. It was actually just this very day that I was talking with the Japanese ambassador about exactly that, and the disconnect about the point around needing to have plans consented in a way that doesn\u2019t necessarily enable that work to be understood and accepted and contracted for, let alone carried out, I think, is a well-made point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn terms of Lawrence Xu-Nan, I thank him for that point around the levy payments and I hope that I\u2019ve addressed that satisfactorily.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EFinally, in relation to \u201CHenry VIII\u201D, because we do really have some sort of regulations review reunion band gathered on my left, I think the point that Arena Williams made there\u00A0is\u00A0well made\u2014just to assure her that there is no sense in which the Government would be\u00A0minded to give or create that additional two-year extension merely for the sake\u00A0of administrative efficiency. If we can substantively do the review and have settings that are known and able to be acted upon within that four-year period, then certainly we\u2019ll do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9b4c4de0aaf4e1b9a2a25b7717744cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9b4c4de0aaf4e1b9a2a25b7717744cf\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m bringing the Minister in the chair\u2019s attention to clause 6, the amendment to section 59 in the original Act, which is liability for territorial authorities and when that liability arises. My question is: is the effect of his amendment that the liability will arise for a territorial authority before the amount of the liability is known by the territorial authority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022a757a1c63faf4f8a8718feb27b000bfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a757a1c63faf4f8a8718feb27b000bfb\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. This is going to be just a reasonably short call, just while the Minister in the chair is contemplating the previous speaker Arena Williams\u2019 question. Thank you, Minister, for responding to my earlier question. I just want to kind of get some further clarification in terms of my question. This is an area that I\u2019m not 100 percent familiar with, and so I need some clarification from the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EWhen we\u2019re looking at clause 7, and specifically more looking at amendments to section 60, the current version in the principal Act is around the fact that the territorial authority may retain 3 percent of the levies. Instead, in the new version, it says, \u201CA building consent authority may retain 3% of the levies\u201D. I think, just going a bit further, not knowing clearly where the delegation between the building consent authority (BCA) and the territorial authority would be in this case\u2014with a retainment of 3 percent levy that, I guess, in the new version the territorial authority would no longer retain because it\u2019s going to the BCA themselves, and they have the ability to retain it. Is that simply to cover administrative cost? Or is that something that is going to potentially throw off the balance in terms of accounting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EAlso, I\u2019m saying this not knowing what the actual amount is in general for the levy\u2014whether 3 percent is like a couple of hundred dollars or 3 percent is like $3 million. It\u2019d be quite good to get clarification on the fact that, yes, from the replaced section 60 and the original section 60, the 3 percent levy is retained by different authorities and how would that work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u0022b61ab1ce1f2241549f623e983eed0c4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b61ab1ce1f2241549f623e983eed0c4e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair, and thank you to the member for that question. Answering that latter question first: it seems to me that the 3 percent retention by a territorial authority is in recognition that the territorial authority acting in that way has certain obligations under the Building Act. An example would be in relation to issuing notices to buildings that are dangerous in a way other than covered by the earthquake-prone building regime, and also in relation to administering building warrants of fitness. Fire safety is touched upon elsewhere in this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EI give that merely as an example of the kind of function that what is, to all intents and purposes, the council, but also at the same time a territorial authority with those functions, and also at the same time invariably also a building consent authority. Where the building consent authority that\u2019s overseen the work in the area is not the council, then the council would otherwise miss the opportunity to retain at least some\u2014and in this case, as we say, we\u2019ve settled on 3 percent\u2014of the amount of the levy that\u2019s been paid. I hope that makes the subject clearer\u2014not the other way. No doubt the member will let me know if he\u2019s now as confused as I am.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn terms of the question by Arena Williams, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s the case that clause 6 would mean that a levy would need to be paid and that the territorial authority would be liable for doing so, not having that information. I think it\u2019s more that it would be redundant within legislation for it to be liable and to need to know the amount of the levy to the extent that it\u2019s not been paid to, essentially, that council. It is really a consequential amendment to that broader point about where the money flow needs to take place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u00222ee9ab51c17c4dc5bbc349881b5108eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ee9ab51c17c4dc5bbc349881b5108eb\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Accepting the Minister\u2019s answers, then, to the questions about timing and the information required of territorial authorities, can I just ask him one broader question about the impact of this, which is: is the real-life problem which is being solved here that the old legislation\u2019s terms were inappropriate, or was there a real market practice problem that was happening where the time frames didn\u2019t match up between the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment\u2019s collection and the territorial authorities\u2019 collection of those levies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u00225c2915a8236e4d2aaf24d0a92d2725e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c2915a8236e4d2aaf24d0a92d2725e3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member Arena Williams for the question. I think it\u2019s more a matter of the terminology needing to contemplate the existence of K\u0101inga Ora, although, actually, I do return to the point that she made earlier that there may be building consent authorities in the future that are not either councils or K\u0101inga Ora. In that case, we\u2019ve gone with language that\u2019s suitably broad as a stand-alone building consent authority might mean a number of different things to futureproof this section in the event that those other reforms do take place in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u0022c413ee88038747bdbf00ad7666778217\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c413ee88038747bdbf00ad7666778217\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll now turn to the amendments that the Minister in the chair is proposing at clause 11 and 12. These have an impact on the requirements for a building warrant of fitness, and also the duties of independently qualified persons. I\u2019m going to open this up for the Minister, because it was something that actually the committee received some very helpful submissions on from the industry and they were generally calls for further work. That this was an accepted set of changes that were being made for the industry, but they had an impact on the liability of independently qualified persons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EThat seems like a good idea to have reasonably stringent punishments proposed by this legislation, and by the Minister here, but the industry put it to us that, alongside these punishments, extra policy work was required to ensure that people carrying out this work\u00A0were then helped to meet the new requirements and were not running afoul consistently of the new punishments. There\u2019s a question about whether people in the sector are reasonably qualified, and that their qualifications are protected, and that the work they do is protected work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EThere were also, then, a separate set of questions around the kind of information that independently qualified people could expect to get from councils in order to do their work properly. Just for the context of the committee, I\u2019m talking about here, if you\u2019re an independently qualified person and you are being asked to make independent assessments about something like, say, the fire safety of a building, you\u2019re also really reliant on the plans\u00A0that you receive from the council to tell you where fire protections are meant to be, and whether the kinds of walls that you were looking at are in fact the kinds of walls that\u00A0were\u00A0put on the plan and have the kinds of fire protections that you would expect to find there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EThe sector raised with us, \u201CThis is all well and good, but what other work is going on in the background?\u201D It would be helpful if the Minister could talk through the impact of new section 108A, inserted by clause 12, and the new offences that he proposes, given that there\u2019s a real willingness and a real goodwill there to meet these new requirements that he\u2019s introducing. What else is going on to make sure that people can meet them, and that the Government is being reasonable about helping people along to meet these obligations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u002215ea2b2d4f2146f7bbd25081ebad2c7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215ea2b2d4f2146f7bbd25081ebad2c7a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and I thank the member for her question. It\u2019s a very good point. It\u2019s one, essentially, that\u2019s been made to me probably by the same people as she\u2019s heard from in that sector. It does go to education as being needed alongside enforcement, and they\u2019re right, and she\u2019s right. Education is needed both in the sense of territorial authorities working constructively with people who are making certifications, but also education in the skills, in qualification, and recognition of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EThat is work that is ongoing, I\u2019m pleased to say, and it connects with the fire safety review that probably would have and should have taken place anyway at around this time, with periodic review of such important rules being important, but particularly motivated by the tragedy that was the Loafers Lodge fire and the loss of life in that, and I acknowledge that work started under the previous Government. I\u2019m pleased to be able to continue that and it\u2019s important work for obvious reasons. It is that this mechanism here which actually spells out in black and white for the first time that an independently qualified person has responsibilities and, therefore, liability in the event that they don\u2019t meet those. That work is necessary but not sufficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EI do also want to point out that in terms of the offence that\u2019s created about supplying a false statement, there are also a couple of defences that are set out. For example, a reasonable mistake having been made or a reasonable reliance on information supplied to the defendant by another person, and also that the defendant took reasonable precautions and exercised due diligence. I imagine the most likely scenario in which that would arise is exactly what the member has said around reliance on a set of plans provided by the council, which may not be accurate, but, nevertheless, on which she or he is entitled to rely on making those certifications.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u002297b9989ee042427082266e0790cca4bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297b9989ee042427082266e0790cca4bd\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. I have two more questions relating to the period of the extension. One of the lessons from the terrible earthquakes in Canterbury arose from collapsing parapets and other fa\u00E7ade features of, primarily, old brick buildings falling on to the street, the most public of which was probably the collapse of a building on to a bus in Canterbury, which killed a number of people and injured others, including Ann Brower, I think her name was. She became quite active to encourage the Government to introduce rules requiring faster remediation of some of those external features than might have applied to the whole of the building. I would like the Minister to explain whether, during this period of extension, some of those easier-to-remedy problems\u2014whether there\u2019s still a duty on the owners of those buildings to do what they reasonably can to advance those issues in the meantime, or are all of those things being delayed? I would hope that there is still some pressure on the owners of those buildings to do what they can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EMy second question relating to that relates to the possibility of extension. I\u2019m from Dunedin, originally. It\u2019s been interesting, in Dunedin, that a lot of the commercial buildings that were said to be uneconomic to repair in the end were economic to repair for the subsequent purchaser, who purchased in the knowledge of the defect but at a price which took account of the defect. One of the risks that there is in enabling an extension to the extension is that people take advantage of the extension to the extension because they don\u2019t want to realise their loss. Their loss is occasioned by a defect that is already present in the building but will not be crystallised until they\u2019re either forced to do the work or sell to someone who\u2019s able to or willing to do the work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EI\u2019m interested in the Minister\u2019s views as to what incentive he is creating here to just cause delay, rather than as occurred in the old buildings around Vogel Street, Water Street\u2014those\u00A0areas in Dunedin which have, largely, now been remediated. The values of those buildings dropped close to land value before the buildings themselves were then economic to repair. It\u2019s actually been a very good outcome for Dunedin, long term, because the economics in the end proved that those buildings\u2014once the value dropped to close to land value, because, you know, knocking the building down and building a new one was more expensive than remediating them, once the value dropped to an appropriate amount. The Minister has to be careful that we\u2019re not creating an incentive here to delay that sort of outcome, which has been a good one in Dunedin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u0022309992419ba74aa4bce3927b745fef5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022309992419ba74aa4bce3927b745fef5d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The point that the Hon David Parker makes about creating an incentive to delay action, to avoid crystallising losses, I think perhaps doesn\u2019t take into account fully the point that a purchaser would be on notice that those losses would be crystallised at a future point in time. If there\u2019s an additional four years, or six years, for that matter, for that to be the case, that doesn\u2019t alter\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022732072c99b4f43808720baeb8883c531\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s the existing owner I\u2019m talking about. The existing owner just delays.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ffe847bed044990b7ea6067a408dcb3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the real-world reality that either the existing owner would crystallise that loss or a purchaser on notice would know that that loss would be crystallised. You would have to think that they would take into account, in a purchase price that they would offer, the fact that\u2014albeit that as at, let\u2019s say, 2025 the requirement isn\u2019t such that they are now falling foul of the law, but nevertheless, in 2029 or 2031, they might be. I think that whether the current or a future owner is disincentivised is really beside the point in terms of the fact that at some point the loss will be crystallised to the extent that it exists. Of course, the purpose of the review is to try and minimise cost as much as possible, while, of course, at the same time, understanding and recognising and protecting against those life safety risks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn terms of the onus that exists on building owners in the meantime, it\u2019s a very good point that the member makes. I think\u2014to highlight that there are things that are in the category of relatively easy wins\u2014the reality is that after a decade, most of the easy wins probably have been achieved. To the extent, however, that there are other things that are within the budget and physically able to be done to repair or remediate or perhaps even just secure loose masonry, for example, there\u2019s nothing to stop a person doing that. There are aspects of the legal framework elsewhere that do incentivise that, in addition to what one might regard as a moral obligation\u2014and I\u2019m sure that those in Dunedin are moral people and would want to do that for the benefit of their fellow citizens. I refer to insurances, for example, as an incentive to have an earthquake-prone building of a reasonable percentage new building standard, because, for tenants, they might have that requirement that they would not enter into a tenancy unless there was a certain percentage. There are other legal obligations\u2014and, I mean, nuisance, I suppose, would be one that one wouldn\u2019t have to imagine too wildly might come about, if there was a known risk that could be mitigated but nevertheless was to cause injury or loss emanating from that property itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EThe broader point is that I certainly would not wish anyone who is able to remediate their building or to strengthen their building or to secure their building and thereby avoid damage and injury\u2014we wouldn\u2019t want to discourage them to do that. We\u2019re merely taking away the legal compliance enforcement requirement that currently exists, at least for four years and possibly six.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022 data-id=\u0022090b77defc4c404e860422cabca49e49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022090b77defc4c404e860422cabca49e49\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve got a few questions for the Minister in the chair, and this is a really important area. We\u2019ve heard a bit about the bigger cities, but I just want to reflect on the streetscapes in some of our provincial towns. It\u2019s a bit like the streetscape will have gaps of boarded-up buildings, demolished buildings, or just rundown buildings that look like the gaps in people\u2019s teeth, frankly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022\u003EThere is not much money in provincial local government. I mean, we hear about the woes of the cities in the funding, but at least Wellington City was able to put a significant amount in for the heritage funds\u2014we would have lost a lot more of the character without that. Thinking of Masterton Town Hall is probably going to have to be demolished. Pahiatua, there are so many buildings; Dannevirke, all of these areas that my colleague across the Chamber is no doubt also concerned with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022\u003EWhat I want to know is: is this a temporary band-aid by extending the deadlines? If you\u2019re talking two to four years, within that time, is there going to be more funding from central government or from some other tool that local government can use? Or is there going to be a sudden advance in science?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022\u003EYou quite rightly say that there is more to be found out about, for example, why do some old, old buildings survive and then something like the BNZ building on the waterfront has to be demolished? Is it just because of the ground waves in the earth or not? I mean, can we find out more about that? Possibly not in the next two to four years, but maybe there\u2019s some funding for science there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022\u003EBase isolators were a huge technical breakthrough. I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve seen another breakthrough like that, and perhaps the Minister would like to address how we can actually fund science and technology better to produce answers to those questions. I do think there\u2019s a little bit more about how we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af6f101298ef4a7f9a9a5f2835d246de\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Wade-Brown, we\u2019re on Part 1 of the bill. You just need to be a little bit more specific. You\u2019ve been pretty broad to date. We\u2019re looking for a question in relation to Part 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b81e6aa689e4ef483877da36175c08a\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Chair. The Minister\u2019s nodding very wisely so maybe he\u2019d like to respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u00229896852e733442feb23118a156177306\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229896852e733442feb23118a156177306\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E In the hope that the Minister can speak is not\u2014\u201Cas wisely as he was nodding\u201D\u2014referring to himself in the third person, and in so doing referring to himself again\u2014myself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EThe member, who I acknowledge is a former Mayor of Wellington City, not only a large city, of course, but one particularly with history in this area. I just do want to acknowledge the work of many in local government, including in this fair city and this connection, but, of course, the point about other areas of New Zealand, including regional towns, is well made. I certainly have engaged with mayors and other councillors in various parts of regional New Zealand, and it\u2019s a major problem, as the member knows. We face the situation of demolition by neglect or, less charitably, demolition by legislation as opposed to the buildings being levelled by a seismic event, in some cases to the extent that people are caught unable to demolish or to rebuild.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a very serious point and, of course, it\u2019s overlaid with the heritage question, particularly when you then balance up the economic considerations\u2014and obviously the cost of remediating is a major one, and we\u2019ve talked a lot about that tonight\u2014but the economic potential of heritage to some of those smaller towns whose tourism offering actually relies in large part on it means that these aren\u2019t straightforward questions for the review to contemplate. They\u2019re determined to do that as best they can\u2014I hasten to add\u2014and we\u2019re giving them, and us, four years in which to do that, possibly six.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EAs to more funding being made available, of course, if local government is willing and able to make more funding available, then we would wish them all the best with that and, indeed, congratulate them on being able to do so, but from a central government point of view, the decision that we\u2019ve made is that the best use of our resource would be to conduct a review that we hope will mean that repairs and remediation, even demolition, will be more cost-effective under new settings than it currently is. That\u2019s been our emphasis rather than paying funds to people to remediate to a standard that may no longer exist in four or six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn terms of the science changing, on the positive side there are additional techniques\u2014and I think there have been some other innovations. I\u2019m no engineer and not qualified, therefore, to speak to what those are exactly, but suffice to say, there are a lot of smart people dedicated to improvements in techniques even beyond the base isolator breakthrough. On the other hand, science is also changing in the sense that we understand more about seismic risk. The bad news there is we understand that there is more risk rather than less every time that we learn a bit more\u2014so definitely a double-edged sword in that sense. It does go to that bigger question, which is a public policy issue in general, which is that the irony of what we\u2019re engaged in now\u2014and I\u2019m being more open than I should, but we\u2019re trying to provide certainty in having a review. Of course, in the meantime, we\u2019ve got the uncertainty, and we want people to be able to get on with their lives and make the changes they need and improve the buildings for the maximum degree of safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn the meantime, we\u2019re providing a pause so that they don\u2019t have to do things that they otherwise would have. It is a tension. We\u2019re grappling with it as best we can. We think, in terms of the time frame, that we are achieving that balance as best we\u2019re able, but, you know, reasonable minds can disagree about where to draw the line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u0022012f35474cd6438c80ac0d5a0016c02b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022012f35474cd6438c80ac0d5a0016c02b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for those without the benefit of video, there is only one Minister in the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u00228bae92d4e19344a6908426ffe69c30ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bae92d4e19344a6908426ffe69c30ba\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you for the opportunity to ask the first question that I have had the chance to ask about clause 17. It creates new sections 133AMA and 133AMC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve explained to the committee what this section is, because we are moving very, very swiftly through this bill, but this section is the big section in it. This section is the one that affects a small number of people extremely deeply\u2014those are the apartment owners in Wellington, those are the homeowners, those are the building owners in Auckland and Christchurch whose life savings are caught up in these buildings and have a huge interest in what is happening tonight in the Chamber, and it would be unfair to them who are following along very closely to rush this part. It also affects all New Zealanders at some level, because the decision being made here is to extend the deadline to delay some of those remediations that Mr Parker has spoken about and is to create a period of time where there is extra uncertainty. It wouldn\u2019t be fair for us not to address this part and not to give it a good, thorough going-over, which is the intention here, even though we are moving very quickly on this side of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EThe first question I have about 133AMA is the concern at the select committee. This was a unanimously shared concern but for different reasons. I want to put it to the Minister for Building and Construction that it was capacity in the infrastructure sector to implement the bill even in these time lines\u2014in the four-year period\u2014whether the infrastructure sector, whether the builders can, in fact, do this. Many members around the table had questions about the capacity of the building sector, particularly in Wellington, to make the remediations that are required along the way, and if all of them are extended in the same way, whether they would all fall at the same time, and whether that is the right balancing exercise. Members on the Labour side of the table also had concerns about the way that the building sector is being impacted right now by not only economic decisions but the pause in the pipeline of Government work which keeps many of the builders within the building sector active. There are 12,000 fewer building jobs today than there were on the day of the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EAre we ready as New Zealand? Do we have a building sector that is sufficiently tooled up to be able to make the remediations that are being required by this bill in the kind of time frame in the section of the building cycle that we will be in then? That\u2019s my question to the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u002249bc8e741ee54627b6301eadb7c25b88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249bc8e741ee54627b6301eadb7c25b88\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I think we\u2019ve got a chicken-and-egg problem, to some extent, in this country. Yes, it\u2019s been a low couple of years for the building sector and they do want more work as quickly as possible, but until such time as we enable them to get on and do that work\u2014and in the case of the earthquake-prone building work\u2014then they don\u2019t have an incentive to remain here in those occupations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn terms of the capacity, I\u2019m confident that the capacity will meet the demand to the extent that it\u2019s able, but the key point there, really, is to understand that the deadline extension of four years will mean that we still have a staggered approach, because the staggered approach that was set up by the regulations that followed the legislation a decade ago was such that areas that were deemed more critical by reason of them being in a more seismically risky part of the country would need to be done first. There was a strong element of risk mitigation and proportionality in that decision, and we\u2019re not going away from that. Everything\u2019s shifting right but by the same amount. I\u2019m hopeful that that work can be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EI suppose the only way to avoid questions of capacity would be to allow an infinite period of time or at least a much longer period of time, but, of course, we\u2019ve discussed between us tonight\u2014haven\u2019t we?\u2014the fact that that in itself represents a danger not only in terms of increasing the chances that a seismic event will take place in the meantime but also that trade-off again between certainty versus the desire for change that will enable people to do the works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u002253f094da928549dcb5894e12512265fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253f094da928549dcb5894e12512265fa\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Bringing the Minister for Building and Construction\u2019s attention to new section 133AMC, inserted by clause 17, the power of the Order in Council here\u2014I think there is a level of comfort now that the Minister has assured the committee that the circumstances for using the Order in Council power will not be administrative ones. The Regulations Review Committee heard from officials that, for example, if there was a major event like COVID that significantly delayed the Public Service\u2019s ability to finish work like this, then that would be a reason things might be extended. Is that the kind of circumstance he\u2019s thinking of; serious major events, big things that throw off the ability of everyone to get this work done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022df498f2716694e64ae55d5036e5ed7d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df498f2716694e64ae55d5036e5ed7d6\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the Minister for Building and Construction for answering some of the previous questions around the levy. I know that there\u2019s been ongoing conversations around the earthquake-prone buildings, but there\u2019s one other section of this particular bill that I would like clarified by the Minister, and this is new section 108A, inserted by clause 12. This is something that is quite separate from the other sections, because it\u2019s around the \u201CDuties of independently qualified person\u201D in the context of, for example, building warrants of fitness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EIt is my understanding that a new offence has been created for the \u201CDuties of the independently qualified person\u201D because we do see bad-faith actors who may not be reporting accurately in terms of some of the inspections and maintenance. However, what\u2019s really drawing my attention to this in particular is that in the new subsection 108A(3), it is up to the defendant\u2014in this case, the independently qualified person\u2014to prove that the failure was due to one of the criteria\u2014i.e., \u201Ca reasonable mistake;\u201D or \u201Creasonable reliance on information\u201D. I think that, in terms of the \u201Creasonable reliance on information supplied\u201D, it can be maybe easily proven, but I\u2019m just curious, or maybe want some clarification from the Minister, in terms of the burden of proof in this case\u2014the fact that the burden of proof is on the defendant themselves, and particularly when it\u2019s around a reasonable mistake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EHow would the Minister consider that a person is to appropriately prove that it was a reasonable mistake in that case? This is quite a severe offence if we are going by new subsection 108A(4), inserted by clause 12, in terms of the amount for an individual: \u201Ca fine not exceeding $50,000:\u201D. It is quite a substantial fine, so I want to know if there\u2019s a much higher threshold, or a lower threshold in this case, for the defendant to prove that it was a reasonable mistake. Yes, if the Minister would clarify that particular point. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7835630b8a242d6a2978adb67638598\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7835630b8a242d6a2978adb67638598\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Taking that second point first: in terms of the burden of proof, the member Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan is quite right to identify that the onus sits on the defendant, which I think is due to a couple of factors. One, the defendant himself or herself would be best placed to state exactly why it is that they had relied on a particular assumption, presumably a set of plans that they\u2019d been operating of, or in reliance on maybe even a verbal statement made to them by perhaps a council officer or the building owner or a building tenant. The fact that that person would be best placed, as well as having the motivation, to make out that defence would be a relevant point there. Also, more broadly, with significant public interest\u2014which I suppose is another way of saying the seriousness of the consequence of failure\u2014we think it\u2019s appropriate that when events could be made out, on the face of it, there\u2019s got to be some sort of reasonably high threshold and onus and burden on a person to say why it was that they didn\u2019t meet that standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EAs to the question that was asked prior by Arena Williams, and I remember she made this point actually in her second reading remarks, I suppose it might be the case that a major event unrelated to the circumstances, such as a global pandemic\u2014God forbid\u2014in the next four to six years, might be the reason that there is a cause of delay such that an additional two years is needed. That\u2019s not something I was particularly contemplating. Again, I\u2019m actively hoping that that\u2019s not the case, but, nevertheless, that might be the cause of a reason. I think it\u2019s more likely that if a review were to take\u2014for example, two years, followed by a year of legislation, to really thrash out the issues and ensure good public buy-in\u2014immediately we\u2019re at the three-year mark, and then there\u2019s one year for people to implement the changes necessary to their buildings to meet that. That would be within the four years, but any slippage on that whatsoever would be in the realm of six years. I think that\u2019s the more likely scenario in which extra time would be needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022 data-id=\u00224bf6965a6b36425b9439bff8294d7446\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bf6965a6b36425b9439bff8294d7446\u0022\u003EHon DAVID PARKER (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have some questions relating to stand-alone building consent authorities, and, in the style of the evening, perhaps the Hon Chris Penk could consult the Minister for Building and Construction and, having done so, respond to his alter-ego before providing information to the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EThe serious point I want to make, or question I want to ask, is: the amendments that have been recommended at the Transport and Infrastructure Committee relating to stand-alone building consent authorities include the definition of the \u201Cstandalone consent authority\u201D, which is, essentially, a consent authority that isn\u2019t a territorial regional authority, and then\u00A0says that there\u2019s a duty on the stand-alone building consent authority to pay levies. I want to understand what the purpose of those levies is, having regard to the experience that\u00A0New Zealand suffered\u2014and I use the word advisedly\u2014when private building consent authorities were introduced, I think it was by the Hon Maurice Williamson, some time ago under building legislation not specific to earthquake-prone buildings, the outcome of which was that a number of rather imperfect inspections were done and councils or building owners ended up wearing the losses that resulted from those poor inspections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003EIn the end, the response of this Parliament was to do away with those private consent authorities because it hasn\u2019t worked to appropriately protect either the councils or the citizens who were reliant on decent inspections of buildings as they were built before they purchased them. I mean, I might be mistaken here, but is the purpose of the levy to provide some sort of fund in order to have some fund to guard against those eventualities, or is it completely different? If it\u2019s completely different, what mechanism is there in the legislation here to ensure that the prior experience in respect of private building consent authorities under the more general building legislation is not repeated here if we have private sector participants who could be an under-capitalised company without the deep pockets of a council in the event of something going wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003ENow, that\u2019s not to say that I think the existing allocation of risk in the building sector is right. I for one do not think that councils should be insurers of last resort. I would prefer consideration of a compulsory insurance mechanism which required the owner of the works or the head contractor\u2014I don\u2019t care which, really\u2014to have major defects insurance. The insurance companies would appropriately price risk, and if it was a low-risk building project, the premium would be low, passed on to the consumer. If it was a high-risk new technology, that might be a higher premium that would be passed on to the consumer, too. I am concerned that, short of that work being done, the introduction of private, stand-alone building consent authorities could end in tears, as the prior experiment did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u0022db2c5831c740467184dbe7315a4dcdeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db2c5831c740467184dbe7315a4dcdeb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The Hon David Parker makes a number of very important and interesting points that don\u2019t particularly relate to the bill. We\u2019re not doing anything that would make a difference in relation to what he\u2019s described. The change of language in relation to stand-alone building authorities as at now merely describes the existence of K\u0101inga Ora. These other questions are ones that the Government\u2019s contemplating, in conjunction with other political parties, I\u2019m pleased to say, because the member\u2019s right: we don\u2019t want to move in the wrong direction in terms of liability, not only in relation to local government burden but also that of the individual consumer, homeowner, etc. We\u2019re determined to get that right. It\u2019s an important conversation, but, as I say, not one for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226aa6725740ef48a8bd0e0d084ac074fc\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6c632094fc1413abeda718a615b370e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226aa6725740ef48a8bd0e0d084ac074fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6c632094fc1413abeda718a615b370e\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u002260861d66c6664c8393496f20a1e904a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002260861d66c6664c8393496f20a1e904a1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to really home in now. We\u2019ve had an hour on this section. I want to hear clauses and new questions, because I\u2019ve been listening in. I\u2019m going to take a call from Arena Williams, but I do note that the members who are on their feet currently have had a number of calls, so I\u2019d like things to stay very brief and to the point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u00223ffe340e1a5f40168328b50a1eac4e1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ffe340e1a5f40168328b50a1eac4e1b\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, absolutely accepting your guidance. Two quick questions, then. On clause 22, dam compliance certificates\u2014my question there to the Minister is really simple. Is the intention here that the person referred to in this clause is a professional person? The fines are kind of set at a level that you would expect for, say, lawyers\u2014and conveyancers are at about the same level. Licensed building practitioners are set at about the same level. Are these fines set in line with the expectations that Government has for professionals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EClause 23\u2014Madam Chair, in line with your instructions about brevity\u2014were any authorities inspecting spa pools, and is that the reason for this change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022b65ea98df3e54fc6a22542ee8e887bea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b65ea98df3e54fc6a22542ee8e887bea\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2014and the same: very brief, to the point, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae62c2c765f6482c85080abd2059552d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae62c2c765f6482c85080abd2059552d\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Two questions from me as well, one just kind of going a little bit deeper into what the Minister mentioned before regarding clause 12, inserting the new section 108A.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EThe Minister mentioned something\u2014that it could be a reasonable mistake, or reasonable reliance could be an oral conversation or even a written conversation from the building owner, for example\u2014but I just want to check what happens in the case where the building owner themselves does not realise what information should be provided. Would that be something that the qualified person would ask very specifically? For example, \u201CHey, how many times has your ventilation system within this building broken down over the last 12\u00A0months?\u201D I just wanted to check with the Minister: would there then be some sort of training with an independent qualified person to actually start asking those questions and those particular prompts, so that way they do get the right information? That\u2019s my first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EThe second question is relating to Schedule 1AA amended, which is part of clause 29, which is still part of Part 1 of the bill. This is particularly to do with new Part 5, clause 17, around offences. Now, the Minister previously talked in terms of some of the retrospectivity of this particular bill, but I want to get clarification from the Minister for subclauses (1) and (2). It talks about offences specifically, and it gives the date of 1 April 2024, which is retrospective. I want to check with the Minister: is that 1 April 2024 a date determined arbitrarily, or is there a specific reason for that date? I think anyone who falls on either side of those days will either be really annoyed or breathe a sigh of relief. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u0022442ce6c1c0ea4370be8f1019fbd4af93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022442ce6c1c0ea4370be8f1019fbd4af93\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I don\u2019t want to interrupt any contributions that may be made on my right-hand side. In terms of the points made by Arena Williams: no, it\u2019s not just professionals who would be caught by the phrase \u201Cany person\u201D, and the relevant section spells out that it could be a natural person or a legal person that is not, namely, a body corporate. I don\u2019t think that it\u2019s intended that it would only be a professional who\u2019d be subject to the fines for failure to display a sign on a certified dam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EAs for whether the small pools are necessarily spas, I don\u2019t know\u2014if I would just put that, I might get in hot water, so I\u2019m just going to leave that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003EIn terms of the point made by Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan regarding offences, I think to describe 1 April 2024 as an arbitrary date might be a bit harsh, but, nevertheless, it\u2019s a pretty convenient date. So often 1 April is decided upon for these matters. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s any more arbitrary than any other line in the sand that\u2019s drawn on a particular date, but the fact that it\u2019s April Fool\u2019s Day, I suppose, might lead the member to draw whatever conclusions he may wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022708f87d718184f05a6a050bf37bd6006\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022708f87d718184f05a6a050bf37bd6006\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022293b1d5beeea45a68cf5f258e120d85e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022293b1d5beeea45a68cf5f258e120d85e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that debate on this question now close. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a834fe0b7cc4a01a87da97af03583bd\u0022\u003EPart 2  Amendments to other legislation \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00225a9884b2ce824ffa8645509ee1a3a23d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a9884b2ce824ffa8645509ee1a3a23d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 31 and 32, \u201CAmendments to other legislation\u201D. The question is that Part\u00A02 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u00227f345891dc704caca3ed40fef545d28d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f345891dc704caca3ed40fef545d28d\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a question for the Minister on Schedule 32. Now, when we were looking at the amendment to the legislation, amendments to Building (Infringement Offences, Fees, and Forms) Regulations 2007, I\u2019m noticing that for Schedule 1, in relation to subclause (1) and subclause (2), the fine amount has been increased from $250 to $1,000, presumably to be in line with what is already existing in sections 108(5)(b) and 108(5)(c) in that respective legislation. However, I have a question regarding the overall nature of that adjustment. If the Minister is adjusting those two elements anyway\u2014adjustments to section 108(5)(aa) and 108(5)(a)\u2014what was the rationale for not increasing all of them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EFor example, in terms of what is in that schedule for 108(5)(b) around displaying a false or misleading building warrant of fitness, the fine is still at $1,000. However, if we\u2019re looking at some of the other offences and amounts within this legislation\u2014let\u2019s say if we\u2019re drawing, not to discuss it, a comparison to clause 22 in Part 1, where if a person commits an offence or did not display or misrepresents a particular display in the context of a dam, if it\u2019s an individual, the fine is $20,000, and if it\u2019s a body corporate, $60,000 or $50,000 and $150,000. I wanted to check with the Minister: what was the rationale for only uplifting two of them but not other areas? It is quite a substantial difference. For both of them, presumably, it\u2019s about displaying a misleading building warrant of fitness or authorisation of some sort, but the offence amount is quite substantially different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u00220e1e6bff0f1641b5b07c59695c1bb842\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e1e6bff0f1641b5b07c59695c1bb842\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I thank the member for his question. The short answer is because I prefer consistency to relativity in terms of maintaining those different amounts that are currently fixed in the legislation. More generally, I suppose, at the risk of sounding glib, it seems to me that these dollar amounts reflect the seriousness of the offences, and we think that they are set at an appropriate level.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5da003981eb4ea4ac0352c320a13878\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5da003981eb4ea4ac0352c320a13878\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u002217759801ce784ac48df945cfa9828ed0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217759801ce784ac48df945cfa9828ed0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003ESchedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002248a467d3632344e5816b1a2c1d32c6dd\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00226b77f4c067d6412cba7dca3c8be55c3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226b77f4c067d6412cba7dca3c8be55c3c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to our final debate: clauses 1 and 2. This is the debate on clauses 1 and 2, \u201CTitle\u201D and \u201CCommencement\u201D. The question is that clause 1 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb31030a769549eaba78d579f73ad931\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb31030a769549eaba78d579f73ad931\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that clause 2 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022d39d6618d5cc429088d95c04e9c0301b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d39d6618d5cc429088d95c04e9c0301b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002203124714dabd49e0ac80f405a2a39006\u0022\u003ESmokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2) \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022003a9d01650641c48469d9c79d669787\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7f0c22d52064b6ead5396b5d269e3c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7f0c22d52064b6ead5396b5d269e3c1\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No\u00A02).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abbe36bf01684c37808ff01ea0452157\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f923d5d8c504be8b4a552411fa6e8b3\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EI would like to take this time to thank all those involved in getting this bill to its second reading, from the members of the Health Committee to the 850 members of the public who made submissions\u2014including the 47 oral submissions we received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EThis Government is committed to reducing smoking rates and to reducing youth vaping. The vaping reforms proposed in this bill sit within the Government\u2019s commitment to achieve the Smokefree 2025 goals. Many people have switched from smoking to vaping. That has been a contributing factor to the recent rapid reductions in New Zealand\u2019s smoking rates. We are committed to sustaining that momentum, and vapes must continue to be available as a cessation tool for adult smokers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EHowever, the number of young people vaping remains a significant concern. Vapes should not be targeted towards children and young people, and they should not be sold to them. That is what this bill aims to stop. It changes the current regulatory vape settings to better protect the young people of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EThe bill focuses on four areas to tackle youth vaping. Firstly, banning disposable vaping products. We know that disposable vapes are disproportionately used by children and young people. Banning disposable vapes will ensure that these products are removed from New Zealand\u2019s retail market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003ESecondly, it increases penalties for under-age sales. The current penalties in place for breaching the prohibition on selling to minors do not adequately deter non-compliance or outweigh the potential gains for non-compliance. Significantly increasing the penalties for illegal sales to young people of regulated products\u2014that means all regulated products, from cigarettes through to vapes\u2014reflects the seriousness of breaching a retailer\u2019s obligation and will help to prevent these sales.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EThirdly, the bill introduces visibility restrictions. I believe the visibility of vaping products has contributed to youth uptake by increasing the attraction and normalisation of vaping. We want vaping to be seen as a smoking cessation tool, and the bill ensures that vapes are kept out of sight and that there are restrictions on where young people might otherwise see them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EFinally, it increases proximity restrictions. The bill further restricts the proximity of new specialist vape retailers to places children and young people frequent. For those applying to set up specialist vape retail stores, in addition to needing to meet the 300-metre proximity restrictions from marae and schools, new applications will also need the store to be at least 100 metres from early childhood centres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EI wish to acknowledge the recommendations of the Health Committee in its final report, and note that these did not significantly change the bill. The main change the committee recommended was to modify the definition of a \u201Cdisposable vaping product\u201D, provided in clause 4 of the bill, so that the ban does not extend to pre-filled containers and pod system - vaping devices. The committee received extensive and compelling submissions on this issue, and I am pleased this change has been made so that vaping remains a viable option for people looking to quit smoking and for those who have quit smoking, while ensuring our young people do not take it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EOther changes include removing the ability for specialist vape retailers to provide free, gifted, and discounted vaping products; making it clear that New Zealand - based websites must not link to other websites that do not comply with our laws, such as an overseas website showing images of vaping products; and, finally, ensuring the child safety mechanisms on vape products are not able to be deactivated. These changes strengthen the bill by providing greater clarity and certainty to the law, thereby enhancing compliance and enforcement and better enabling the bill\u2019s intent to be met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EThe Government is committed to cracking down on youth vaping and achieving New Zealand\u2019s Smokefree 2025 goal. This bill represents the first tranche of Government changes to ensure we have the right legislative settings and policy levers in place to protect our young people from vaping, whilst ensuring progress towards reducing smoking in New Zealand. Part of that work is bolstering the monitoring, compliance, and enforcement regime. To date, enforcement has not been done well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EIn the second tranche, I am considering ways to strengthen the regulatory framework overall. This work will address smoked tobacco, vaping, and other nicotine products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EWe have made excellent progress towards achieving our smoke-free goals, but we need to recognise the targeted intervention still required to get to the headline goal as well as what will need to be done in the future to help certain groups when smoking rates are below 5 percent. This will require us to have protections in place so we do not have new smokers or those who have quit start smoking again. Alongside this further policy and legislative work, smoking cessation services will remain a crucial part of our efforts to achieve Smokefree 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EThis Government has made a commitment to reducing smoking rates and to tackling youth vaping. This bill plays a pivotal and necessary part in protecting our children and young people from vaping, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d49ccb2e63cb4ff9a4c7ad07944126d1\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220430552b9c2348d2bdcbfec56d857daf\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Fast-track Approvals Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00222cf150f997b5468db1c0585eb9354f19\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222cf150f997b5468db1c0585eb9354f19\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker, I just have a correction of vote here. Earlier this evening when the House was considering the Fast-track Approvals Bill, the results of two votes were incorrectly recorded. The vote that the amendments recommended by the Environment Committee, by majority, be agreed to was incorrectly recorded as Ayes 68, Noes 49. The correct result is Ayes 68, Noes 48. The vote that the bill be read a second time was incorrectly recorded as Ayes 68, Noes 55, and the correct result is Ayes 68, Noes 54.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bfa9ce53209f42a7863d03ba520c4365\u0022\u003ESmokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2) \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002262a1ec926c534f1b849568170ba53a89\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000797\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u0022180aa54cd18c48108cdaa7018a9f44c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022180aa54cd18c48108cdaa7018a9f44c6\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my honour to rise to speak on this amendment to the Smoke Free Environments and Regulated Products Act that takes action on youth vaping. Labour supports this bill and we support the four areas where major amendments are made in this bill. That includes changes to the manufacture, sale, supply, and distribution of disposable vapes. Those will be banned under this bill, and that\u2019s appropriate given the high number of youths who use disposable vape products. They are the most commonly used products by young people, and having young people start vaping is a harm we want to avoid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EIn addition, Parliament is playing its part in this bill in sending a clear signal that vaping laws need to be adhered to. We all know where young people get their vapes from. They, one way or another, get it from a shop or an online store, and we are all aware from various\u00A0sting operations, whether that\u2019s done by Health New Zealand, Te Whatu Ora, or by Fair Go or other journalists, that that is sometimes rules that are honoured in the breach. Young people are getting vapes\u2014people under 18\u2014through illegal sales to them quite often. In increasing the penalties for these sales, we are sending a clear signal to the regulatory authority that we expect to see more prosecutions being taken. That would be a desirable thing, in my view. There are not sufficient prosecutions under way currently for there to be a disincentive to bad actors, so I hope to see that change with this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EThere are also restrictions on the visibility of vaping products from the storefront, so you won\u2019t be able to see vapes when you look through the window of a store any more. That\u2019s a positive development, too. However, I would add the biggest ad for a vaping store is the store itself. They\u2019re usually all lit up in neon or psychedelic colours. That is the ad from the vaping store that you see from the street most easily, but I do think not being able to see the products, just like for cigarettes, is a positive development. Finally, there\u2019s the inclusion of early childhood centres in the\u2014new stores are prohibited a certain distance from those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EThose are good reasons to support the bill, but the bill also raises a number of questions for us. In her earlier remarks, we heard the Associate Minister of Health mention that a further tranche of changes are to come. We wonder: why can\u2019t these changes all be considered at once? It\u2019s unusual to reform part of a bill and not have that alongside the other parts of the bill that are being changed. Why is that? Is that because of coalition agreements that are hard to reach and need to be worked through? We in the Opposition are not let into that conversation. It would be great to know what the big picture here is for vaping and tobacco and other nicotine product regulation that the Minister outlined. It seems to me that the Health Committee has done a good job of agreeing in a bipartisan way on these reforms, but we don\u2019t know what the full picture is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EThis bill also had a short select committee period. It\u2019s unclear to me why that was, particularly when there was no opportunity for official consultation before this bill was brought into the House. You\u2019ll recall that from the regulatory impact statement, and we canvassed that at first reading, there was no official consultation. So the committee\u2019s done its best. And I enjoyed the opportunity to work with my colleagues on some of these practical matters. We had good advice, particularly on some of the practicalities around disposable vapes from our advisers, the Ministry of Health, but also from the public, and some vape manufacturers who are of course very able to give detailed advice on what makes a vape disposable or not. You see, the thing is, normally, that would have been preceded by a period of official work, so it\u2019s no skin off the committee\u2019s nose if we\u2019re back here sometime in the future in this term of Parliament, reopening this, because I think we\u2019ve done the best we can in the time we\u2019ve had available to make sure that we\u2019ve been diligent about that. Of course, it wasn\u2019t a normal legislative process, but I feel that we\u2019ve worked together to try and get the outcome we all want, which is to reduce youth vaping and ban disposable vapes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003ELook, I do want to thank all the submitters who came to the committee in that short time frame that we had, and none the less gave us their best advice on what they would like to see to meet the aims of this bill. There are a number of potential measures that submitters raised which have not found their way into the final bill, and I do want to mention that. There are still concerns about the number of new vape stores and vape store numbers overall. We are aware that there are more vape stores in low-income neighbourhoods, including neighbourhoods with M\u0101ori and Pacific in them, and those groups are the communities amongst whom youth vaping is the highest. The option of a sinking lid on the number of stores was raised, or even density limits. Submitters called for greater reductions in flavours. They called for plain packaging and further limitations on the amount of nicotine. They called for more education when it came to vaping, and, a sentiment shared by the committee, further compliance and enforcement actions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EOnce again, we\u2019re pleased to be able to vote for this bill. It does take a positive step, but we fear that even this will not be enough to turn the tide on the increase of vaping we\u2019ve had since 2021, where it shot up from under 2 percent to, well, at some measurements 10\u00A0percent; others in some communities of young people, over 20 percent. That\u2019s happened in three years. You have to do a lot to turn the tide on that. As I\u2019ve noted, we in the Labour Party, and many of the submitters, felt more regulatory change would be required to put that genie back in the bottle to reverse the rates of youth vaping. Well, I guess the thing is time will tell whether or not those changes are to be the case. That\u2019s a shame if you\u2019re one of the young people in this period who has got hooked on vaping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, it is good to be able to work with committee members, with colleagues from across the House, on a bill that will make some positive benefit, but there is still much further to go to address this harm in our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c87d02211edd4bbdbc2f621303104d81\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c87d02211edd4bbdbc2f621303104d81\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is my pleasure to speak in support of the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2) on behalf of the Green Party. I want to echo a lot of the sentiments from the previous speaker, the Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall, and I just want to note that, effectively, if we look back at the past few years, I think this bill has been the product of a lot of community advocacy around the harm that vaping causes in our communities. During the last election, and as a second-term MP, I noted the amount of advocacy groups who came to our Parliament calling for more action when it comes to the regulation of vaping products\u2014particularly how those manifested within the retail sector. This included young parents, young people, and organisations that predominantly serve M\u0101ori, and there was a growing concern around the unaddressed harm that vaping caused in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI think this bill presents an opportunity to think about how we choose to debate different types of substances\u2014which substances we allow ourselves to debate within an evidence and public health framework, and also the reality that any regulation of a substance in which there is a profit motive by businesses will have a strong lobbying component by those businesses who actually benefit from the status quo. That was no different than the select committee process that many undertook.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the members of the Health Committee, and our colleague H\u016Bhana Lyndon who partook in most of the select committee deliberations and submissions. I had the privilege of sitting in on, I think, a couple of hearings and hearing from submitters themselves. Having worked in South Auckland before becoming an MP, it is really clear to me that the issue around the harm and the prevalence of vaping in our communities is one that will remain a hot issue because this bill is not a panacea. In fact, as Ayesha Verrall noted in the previous speech, we need to take this bill not in isolation but as part of a broader ecosystem of policy and levers in relation to drug harm minimisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EThere are other bills, when it comes to issues around tobacco products and addictive substances, with which the Government is taking us backwards, right? We\u2019re making some steps forward here when it comes to vaping specifically, but I do still think that, overall, we need to be more ambitious than a bill that had a relatively short select committee and, as the previous member noted, no proper consultation prior to being brought to the House\u2014particularly in this bill, when we know that there are organisations that work very closely with people who are affected by vaping. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI think there was an opportunity to bring the public on board. When we have a bill that is so high profile in nature, I think\u2014and we saw this in the distribution of the submissions\u2014it kind of enables organisations that are really well-resourced, including people in business sectors, to prepare really cogent submissions, but it actually prevents the broader public who often don\u2019t have the time, the resources, or the means to make submissions, from adequately participating in that process. I think this is one of those bills that would have really benefited from bringing a broader community on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EMany organisations that came to the select committee noted that\u2014well, particularly those that work in public health\u2014they supported the bill but called for us to go further than the interventions that we\u2019re making around disposable vaping, around the fine system that we\u2019re putting in place, around the restrictions in places that this bill deems adequate and where young people congregate. In fact, many of them\u2014and I\u2019m mindful that I may be repeating some of the previous comments\u2014asked us to look at, again, a whole-of-ecosystem approach and to look at issues around regulations around retailers. It has been noted that, while this bill will look at how vaping products are displayed in stores, it doesn\u2019t look necessarily at the broader regulatory systems and models around how we allow shops to basically pop up in our communities. That continues to be an issue, right, because you can create limits around where those shops may operate, but these shops actually continue to make a profit out of causing addiction and harm, effectively, in our communities. I think submitters were really right to raise these issues. While they may sit outside of the bill, they\u00A0should serve as food for\u00A0thought for the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EIn the same way that this has been a relatively constructive cross-partisan process in which most, not all, political parties have been on board, I think I would echo the calls that actually in the broader policy settings of the Government and goals, I would invite the Government to bring all political parties on board when it comes to issues of drug law reform. At the end of the day, if we take an evidence-based approach, there should be no fear of us coming together to discuss basically how we regulate drugs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EOther issues that were raised were specifically relating to density limits for specialist vape retailers. I think this is particularly important because as we moved in this recession environment where there have been a lot of changes in terms of the make-up of shops in our communities, in areas of Auckland, I\u2019ve noted, and many constituents of mine have noted and fed back that to me, and I\u2019m sure to others, of how they\u2019ve seen local businesses close only to be then replaced by a vape shop that actually sits in quite close proximity to an already existing vape shop. That is something that I think needs to be addressed, because that density and the way that the advertisement then is carried out by proxy of the density creates the conditions for vaping products to be more attractive to young people, particularly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EThere were issues around flavours being addressed and/or nicotine levels. Then there\u2019s also the tricky conversation around the minimum age requirements as well. I think, again, the\u00A0select committee process highlighted the vested interest that ultimately retailers have,\u00A0that companies that make a profit from the harm that vaping products cause have. I do welcome the select committee being able to work with nuance, and through as much as possible and\u00A0as\u00A0much as our cross-partisan approach would allow, look at not so much those commercial interests but, actually, the wellbeing of our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI think the other things that have been raised by submitters were the consideration of what other public spaces we should have considered as part of this bill. I think that\u2019s a really important thing because for many communities\u2014and I think of migrant communities or even faith-based communities\u2014young people will be congregating in spaces that are not necessarily captured in this bill. I think we need to look at, for example, what other mechanisms we need to put in place to ensure that the intent of this bill is one that allows it to be successful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EOther things that I noted from submitters were the calls for cessation programmes to be adequately resourced. I acknowledge that some submitters noted what they perceived was the\u00A0importance of vaping products when it came to cessation. I acknowledge that many organisations will be working with limited resources to allow for people to quit nicotine and\u00A0tobacco products, and those organisations need to be adequately resourced if we\u2019re to meet, I think, the intent of this bill, and to ultimately take a public health approach. When organisations that are connected to our communities and that are operating from a public health framework are allowed to thrive, it also, in my view, restricts the ability for a prohibitionist lens and panic to sink in in our communities, because, actually, we\u2019re resourcing the organisations on the ground who understand the communities, who understand\u00A0the harm that substances cause, and we allow the intent of this bill to thrive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI just want to end by saying that, once again, while we support this bill, we still have a really cautious approach to the overall goal of this Government when it comes to tobacco and nicotine products. We urge the Minister in charge to look at the evidence, to look at the data in making any decisions in relationship to this issue, because otherwise we are letting down communities who are facing really ill adverse health effects as a result of the harm that the substances cause. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7ba20a4b4024d98a87ff847c0cac037\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7ba20a4b4024d98a87ff847c0cac037\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party as the ACT member on the Health Committee, which heard this bill. I\u2019d just like to echo agreement with my fellow colleague on the committee\u2014Ayesha Verrall\u2014about the collegial way in which the committee work, and in no small part thanks to the able chairing from Sam Uffindell\u2014doing a great job of chairing that committee and bringing us together and working through some issues that many of us held with this bill when it first came to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003EThe bill ostensibly is about addressing the increasing concern that we have up and down this country in youth vaping. The committee heard stories from submitters not just in this bill\u2019s process but even before. We\u2019ve had people come and speak to the committee about the effects that youth vaping is having on youth, and the long-term negative effects, the short-term effects on their health, their opportunities, and, indeed, their mental health. I would also refer again to my colleague Sam Uffindell talking about it as a drug addiction rather than a\u2014what was the term?\u2014basically saying that it\u2019s a dependency on a chemical addiction, not just a habit. I think that is something that we need to keep in mind as we pass this bill through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003EAt the select committee, we\u2019ve got these four points that have been traversed already. Number one, we had a ban on manufacture, sale, supply, and distribution of disposable vapes. Personally, I was quite shocked hearing about the very low number of convictions and investigations that have taken place for retailers selling to those under age. I think it was kind of a shock for all of us to hear about the lack of enforcement. I want to put on the\u00A0record that I would personally like to see a lot stronger enforcement taken by vape smoke-free enforcement officers. I think that the Minister has done a good job of adding some increased fines to make a higher penalty and more of a disincentive, and an incentive to enforce the rules and a disincentive for people to be breaking them, by increasing the fine schedule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard about the affordability, the cheapness, the low cost of disposable vapes being the reason and the intention to ban these, but we also had an issue. The effects of allowing only refillables had a whole lot of perverse outcomes. That is, some of the most damage that has been observed overseas from vaping bans has been people producing their own vape juice and what that can actually have in it when it\u2019s a homebrew of some description, and the damage that that can do. I personally was quite worried that we were going to end up with a negative outcome that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003EAlso, the ease of use of some of these disposable or pod-based vaping devices were seen as an assistance for people who have been quitting smoking actually making it easy for them to pick up a device that gives them that chemical addiction hit that they need to keep them away from cigarette smoking. Also, there is one more thing to add on that: if you\u2019re buying a product in vape-induced form, you don\u2019t exactly know what quality that product is at all times. Having a closed device provides a degree of safety about the products that are being used. At committee, we made some changes and so this will mean that this ban will not extend out to cartridges and pod-based vapes. So that is something that I think has been well canvassed at committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003EACT and I have concerns about what we\u2019ve seen a black market for. When this Government came in, we had a situation in New Zealand with our cigarette and smoking laws that would, I believe, have led to a black market\u2014that\u2019s with the denicotisation of cigarettes, basically kicking smokers off cigarettes that they purchase at a legitimate store, and into, perhaps, the black market. I personally think we would have ended up with a very entrepreneurial underworld taking advantage of this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293fdcdc9cc1f4c83aeba5841420c8abc\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Gangs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f5053d8cf4e43a4ac65ed3ad020b679\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: And gangs\u2014my colleague Todd Stephenson correctly identifies yet another avenue that could have been opened. This Government came in and changed this law, the law that the last Government left in place, but we needed to find something to replace it with. I congratulate Minister Costello for starting to work through these issues. We don\u2019t want to see ex-smokers who have used vapes to great effect return to cigarettes because we\u2019ve made it so hard for them. I think the hard-working, diligent, and collegial Health Committee has returned a bill in good order, that is very acceptable, to the House. I\u2019m pleased to support it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022db3d2aee951246588663d16f1642cd13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db3d2aee951246588663d16f1642cd13\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s great to be able to rise and speak on this bill, and thank you to Cameron Luxton, the previous speaker, for his complementary tone there. I do appreciate that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to extend the thanks to all the members of the Health Committee, who have worked through this bill. We got\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293ae922fd0774a1e841efb90f765c29b\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: Especially the deputy chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295758c5056894cff80216b689bf7a235\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: Especially the deputy chair\u2014yes, yes. We managed to get it to a place where we felt it needed to be, and I\u2019d like to thank the Minister Costello, as well, for bringing this in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been some commentary noted around the shortened select committee time. Look, the reason for that was quite clear: youth vaping is a real challenge in New Zealand. We are clear on that, and I don\u2019t think there\u2019s anyone in this House that would disagree with that. We want to get these changes in quickly. We want to be able to get rid of disposables as soon as we can, and we want to be able to ramp up the fines and the enforcement fees as soon as we can, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003EAs the Minister did say when she primarily came and addressed the committee when we started hearing submissions on this bill, this is not the be-all and end-all of the vaping legislation; this is the first part of it. There will be another part to that as well, but it\u2019s very important that we get this first step in so that, one, we get rid of disposables, which is the product of choice for youths when they vape; and, secondly, so that the fines are there and they are sufficient and they are heavy so that people who flout the law and sell to minors\u2014and we know that that does happen\u2014know that they will be held accountable. It also will incentivise those enforcement officers out there to go out there and take that enforcement action. At the moment, they are weighing it up against the cost of the enforcement, but this\u00A0does further incentivise them to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003ELook, there were a number of changes, and I\u2019m not going to go over that, but what I will talk about is the things that the committee did change, and I\u2019ll do so very quickly. One was about not extending the ban on the disposable devices, because we know that that would have left people with the only option being the open devices. People were turning up to wherever they go to buy vapes late at night, and they\u2019re not there. They don\u2019t have them there and they\u2019re reverting to buying cigarettes, and it does run the health risks that Mr\u00A0Luxton has pointed out, as well. It\u2019s important that when people who have smoked\u2014and we\u2019re talking about older smokers here, mainly\u2014want to go and buy an alternative product, it is available for them, and that would have been removed from them had we proceeded with it as it was originally drafted at the first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003EWe were clear that child safety mechanisms must not be able to be deactivated. We also had concerns around the dumping of vape products at very low prices or for free as well, and the incentive there to get young people involved and participating in that. We thought that, no, we can\u2019t allow that, and so that has been rubbed out. Also, we have done some stuff around the visibility so that vaping products cannot be visible from outside the store. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003EI just want to thank everyone again for coming together. We\u2019ve had a whole week there in the adjournment when we got through all of our submissions and we did a few other field trips, as well. I think that every day that week when the committee was working during the adjournment week, the chair wasn\u2019t popular, but thank you to everyone for coming together and getting this back to the House. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00220ed308ffa53b434e831c097bac90eb7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ed308ffa53b434e831c097bac90eb7b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u2014a five-minute call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u002227950d76451c46538d62afca5e7a3f75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227950d76451c46538d62afca5e7a3f75\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Like my colleague Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March said, yes, the Green Party does support this bill, but I think in terms of the select committee, like the chair of the Health Committee just mentioned before, the shortened select committee process is regrettable, because it did mean that we weren\u2019t able to hear from the community in its entirety and be able to tease out some of the issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EHowever, in saying that, there are a lot of really important amendments that are being made as part of the select committee process, and I think that all of that strengthens this particular bill. However, I would like to point out one particular part where there were a number of submissions that were talking about out-of-scope submissions. I find that really interesting, because in this case, I thought that nothing would be out of scope because the whole purpose and essence of this bill is to reduce the number of people from vaping. If you are restricting it specifically to what the Minister has intended in here, it almost defeats\u00A0the purpose of some of these processes or the purpose of the bill itself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EI think particularly some of the things that should have been considered are things like introducing a sinking lid on retailers. That\u2019s something that has been called for when we were talking in the first reading of this bill, and other things like futureproofing the Act to ensure that it covers other things, because overall, fundamentally, we want to hit that smoke-free target and that includes vaping, that includes heated tobacco products, that includes the traditional cigarettes and tobacco products. It is a shame that some of these\u00A0out-of-scope elements were not considered by the Minister and by the select committee to be included in this particular bill, because I think it does line up with the purpose of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EOne of the things I would like to specifically mention is around the advertising element, and particularly when it comes to the new section 25(4A), inserted by clause 12. This is something I would like to ask the Minister for further clarification on during the committee stage, because it specifically refers to how New Zealand - based websites must not link to advertisements that do not comply with New Zealand legislation, but it is limited to New Zealand websites. Now, we know that one of the biggest areas and biggest concerns globally, not just in Aotearoa New Zealand, is the number of young people who are taking up vaping, particularly young people who are under the age of 18.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EAlthough this bill has made some progress in terms of making sure that retailers cannot sell to under-18-year-olds, websites are not the main root of how young people engage with the internet at this stage. One of the things we see that are challenging in other countries\u2014for example, in Singapore, where vaping is banned but they\u2019re still seeing a lot of vaping in their young people and a lot of that is by targeting through social media. So one of the things that would be good to actually see in this would be expanding it out to include not just New Zealand websites but social media as part of that ban, that limitation and restriction, around advertisement. I think that is something that would be good to consider during the committee stage in particular. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EI think, overall, we do see that this bill, although it makes some changes, simply does not go far enough, particularly when we\u2019re talking about things like limiting the number of retailers, things like having limits on heated tobacco products. Although this mentions a lot in terms of disposable vapes and some of the other elements around refills, etc., it still doesn\u2019t address some of the other elements of non-disposable vapes; it doesn\u2019t address some of the issues and concerns that we\u2019re seeing with flavouring\u2014I think some of the out-of-scope submissions did also talk about limiting the flavouring of different products. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EOverall, although the Green Party of Aotearoa does support this bill and we\u2019re supporting it, we do have a number of questions for the Minister during the committee stage on this bill, and we\u2019re really hoping\u2014and we\u2019re also urging the Minister to consider expanding the scope\u00A0of this, despite the fact the Minister says that she will be undertaking further things. I\u00A0think the time is now for us to do something about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022 data-id=\u00221954d989ac8a47e3be2fd350b8e1f0b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221954d989ac8a47e3be2fd350b8e1f0b6\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a great honour to stand up and speak in support of the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2). I\u2019m glad to hear that there\u2019s support around the House, and the previous speaker, Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan, did mention a number of things that I do want to touch on. One of the things is a number of things which were considered out of scope, but it is actually in the report about why they are important. That is going to be, as we\u2019ve heard from the Minister, more regulations coming into place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard about the short select committee process, but I will also point out that maybe not all members in the House talking on this debate have actually been part of the\u00A0select committee process. We\u2019ve been working on vaping probably since early March. I noted on 6 March, we did have a number of briefings talking about vaping and youth vaping. This is not just something that\u2019s popped up at the last minute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EI just did want to clarify a couple of those points. I think there\u2019s probably been a little bit of misunderstanding about that. This bill is a vital step towards protecting the health and wellbeing of young people in New Zealand. This bill really does deal with a strong tension: a tension between stopping people smoking through vaping but not encouraging people who have never smoked\u2014so we don\u2019t want them to start vaping. We\u2019ve seen an increase in youth taking up vaping, which is of great concern. Somehow the message of \u201Cless harm of vaping\u201D has been morphed into \u201Cvaping is safe\u201D and that is definitely not the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EI will say we do need to be very careful\u2014we can\u2019t take decreasing smoking rates for granted. We have seen cigarette smoking rates in places like Australia and UK increase for the first time in decades, possibly in part due to their restrictive regulations that are put in place around vaping and smoking. I think we\u2019ve got to be very careful with regulations that we do bring in, and I think kind of taking it in a bit-by-bit process is actually a wise way to do it. In saying that, our large increase in youth vaping rates does present a challenge and it does need to be addressed properly, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve talked about a number of things that the bill is doing and, through the select committee process, what has been improved, and we\u2019ve talked about the disposable vaping. Of course, these disposable vapes are cheap, they\u2019re easy to disguise and easy to hide in pockets and things like that, and so they have been a popular tool for young people who are vaping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EWe heard about the pod system, how that\u2019s important\u2014especially with people who are facing disabilities, especially in the hand and fine motor skills, that they actually need to have a pod system. Of course, what we don\u2019t want is to have a situation where people are reverting back to cigarette smoking. The same with a sinking lid on the number of vape stores: what we don\u2019t want is places where cigarettes are available but vaping\u2019s not, and so if people go in for a vape then they\u2019re more likely to go to cigarettes. These are some of the things that we\u2019ve been working on in the select committee process, not just in this bill but more widely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EAlso, increasing the fine for selling to under-age people is very important. Not only is $10,000 clearly not a strong enough deterrent but, actually, by increasing it to $100,000, it also tips the balance. Actually, when enforcement officers are thinking about prosecuting, that actually the cost of going to prosecution is kind of a lot lower. It kind of increases that benefit, tipping the balance in favour of prosecution\u2014and that\u2019s what we definitely, definitely want to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003EThis is an important, important bill. We are not trying to eliminate vaping as a tool to quit smoking, but we are trying to stop youth taking up vaping, and we also want to make sure that our children are safe. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u002257d850bc2e564989a7f956f61cd76b4e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257d850bc2e564989a7f956f61cd76b4e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair. The House is suspended, and I will resume the Chair at 9 a.m. tomorrow for the extended sitting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411137a2bbf27ae724bf6b5b3d669687b1ac8000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 9.56 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd3f5bf8891f49b9b717acaf29182e1e\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 13 NOVEMBER 2024\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d26cce0fa33140b1afa9110566391fbc\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 14 November 2024)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bc3508649ea64f4a8e61b9f21f31e6e8\u0022\u003ESmokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a634cf831a6f4fbe885d8f8271704a10\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000005\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00228a6b2c8e45c44d4fbc724441eddb2faa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a6b2c8e45c44d4fbc724441eddb2faa\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is resumed. Last night when we left, we were on the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2). I call the next speaker, who is Ingrid Leary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u002272f534a18b1c4d618b0eb5cc008def6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272f534a18b1c4d618b0eb5cc008def6a\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. The most compelling thing for me when I sat on the Health Committee listening to evidence about vaping was seeing a graph presented by Professor Hoek which showed New Zealand right at the top of the graph for 16- to19-year-olds that had vaped 20-plus times in a month, to the year 2023. New Zealand was up at 17 percent. Then there was the US down at 6\u00A0percent and the UK at around 10 percent. So we were way off the chart.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EThe bill was presented to us as a crackdown on vaping, and certainly there does need to be a crackdown on vaping. What we heard in the select committee was a lot of anxiety, not only from young vapers who are addicted but also from parents and from public health professionals, who reminded us that we don\u2019t really know what the long-term effects of this habit are. So is this bill a crackdown on vaping or is it a bit random? Is it a bit of a distraction? It feels pretty random to me when I think about what the bill does and doesn\u2019t do, and also the context in which it has been presented to the House, from which Minister and which party. What is the real agenda here around vaping and smoking cessation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EWhat the bill does do\u2014and we\u2019ve heard this\u2014is it disallows some disposable vapes. It also reduces the visibility or the opportunity to have displays in store and online, which are good things and are part of the reason we are supporting this bill; and it has stronger penalties. It is important, I think, for anybody who is selling vapes to under age young people that they do face harsh penalties, although what we heard in the select committee was a real gap and a real concern around enforcement and the fact that very few prosecutions had occurred, that there was confusion around what the rules were, and that outside of the penalties regime, there didn\u2019t seem to be a fear of being prosecuted, which is something that I\u2019m not sure that this current bill fixes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EMore importantly, what the bill doesn\u2019t do is it doesn\u2019t address price promotion. It doesn\u2019t reduce the opportunity for young people to see vaping being advertised where there\u00A0is a price promotion, which was an opportunity missed, and we were told by submitters that that was really important if we really want to crack down, as the Government has said. We didn\u2019t see anything much about the number and density of vape stores, even though there was evidence that, particularly in low socio-economic areas, there is a prevalence of these vape stores, one after the other, just as there can be with alcohol stores, exposing our young people not only to the visibility of vaping but also to the opportunity to get hold of vapes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EWe didn\u2019t see very much, if anything, about the appeal of vape flavours, and we know that these are marketed to young people with names like Candyfloss and Sweet Mint and things that are really designed to appeal to young people. Why wasn\u2019t that included in the bill? There was nothing about reducing nicotine. Nicotine is the addictive substance in vapes. Surely that would have been somewhere where we could have started to have some effect in legislation to make sure that the nicotine levels were graduated to be able to get young people off vapes, and indeed reformed smokers off vapes, but that was missed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EThere is nothing in the bill about age verification, or about how one verifies purchasing vapes online or in stores, and, crucially, in my view, there was nothing about the monitoring, valuation, and performance of how the measures, including enforcement, were going to be conducted. It feels to me that this is a bit of a random bill, a bill that doesn\u2019t go far enough. It is worth supporting because, of course, any step to reduce our young people vaping is important, but it\u2019s such a missed opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EThen, when we look at the context of how this was introduced and by whom, we have a Minister who introduced it who says she wants to crack down. I question the authenticity of that statement because this is a Minister who does not have a good track record at evidence transparency, and her integrity has been questioned by Professor Chris Bullen from Health Coalition Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at what kind of evidence this Minister relies on. She has told us that nicotine is no more harmful than caffeine. She has presented that to her health officials in a document whose origins were unknown, a document she said she didn\u2019t know who authored, a document that was eventually produced and redacted. It\u2019s a document she maintains was produced before the election and yet contains references to the coalition agreement. It\u2019s a document that inspired deep concern from the Auditor-General as to the conduct of information-keeping and information release.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EWhen we look at a Minister who has acted in that way around smoking cessation, how can we trust that this bill is really about vaping cessation for our young people? The Minister has chided her own officials for describing the evidence that she was trying to produce\u2014that some called a Google search\u2014as out of date, selective, and crap. She took the unprecedented step of criticising her own chief adviser and saying that that chief adviser was trying to undermine her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EWell, I question the motivation for introducing this rushed vaping bill to the House, and is it true that this is really part of a crackdown on vaping with a bill that does not go far enough? When we look at the context of this, we see that the Minister also tried to change the regulations and rules around vaping to have them delayed for two years. Instead, Cabinet said that she could delay them for six months. Are these the actions of a Minister and a Government that really wants to crack down on vaping?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EI\u2019m providing this context because I\u2019m questioning whether this bill is random or whether it is a strategic crackdown on vaping, and I don\u2019t have the same faith and generosity of some of my colleagues to suggest that this is an authentic piece of work and a bigger piece of work because, of course, we have heard that there is a bill yet to come\u2014we have no idea when it\u2019s coming\u2014that is apparently going to address all the other concerns, which are probably the real vehicles for being able to reduce vaping in young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003ETo make matters worse, and I must address this because it has been very difficult for me to sit in this House and watch my colleague Dr Ayesha Verrall be attacked around conflicts of interest when I have sat on the Health Committee in the deliberations for this bill and watched her be at pains to show the conflict of interest with a family member. This is not the conduct of somebody who has tried to conceal anything, and I think it\u2019s an indictment on the Government that they would try and raise this to defend their conduct when it comes to the authenticity of reducing smoking and vaping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f76febdb254f4115b352badbd9a6e7be\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for raising that. Now we\u2019ll go back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b40fb633fb37433b95b80b085b488e2d\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: This is because the way I think is that we cannot look at vaping in isolation. The justification for vaping is that it reduces smoking harm, so we have to look at the totality, and my question to this House and my question to people watching is: is this a random bill? Is it something that is being designed as a distraction from a Minister under pressure and a party under pressure, trying to take the heat\u2014pardon the pun\u2014off the smoke and mirrors that we\u2019ve seen? Or is it actually an authentic and serious piece of work designed to try and stop young people from smoking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EThere is nothing around the process that convinces me of the latter. I look at the truncated process\u2014that at the eleventh hour we were told it was going to be a shortened select committee, that, in fact, the Health Committee had notified for submissions prior to the bill even coming back from the House because the Government hadn\u2019t anticipated the strength of our dismay and our concern at what they were doing from a process perspective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EWe have heard that there are many things that this bill does not do, that are out of scope, that should have been in this bill, in my view. These are things that we would expect to come in the next tranche of legislation from this Minister, and my questions are: when will this happen, and will these be addressed? These are things like reducing the number of new vape stores, reducing the flavours\u2014we\u2019ve heard that time and time again. That was not addressed. What about the plain packaging that could be used to make vapes less attractive? What about reducing the nicotine harm? There\u2019s plenty of evidence about that. You don\u2019t even have to go to Google; you can get it from universities and experts. Why are these not addressed in this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EI look forward, as a member of the Health Committee, to doing my job as a parliamentarian, and I do want to acknowledge my colleagues from across the House for the strength they\u2019ve shown in this regard, to making sure that this Minister comes back in a timely way with some legislation that addresses this issue. Until then, I think it\u2019s pretty random bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022 data-id=\u00228b7db1a448724260893f0f61dd8c03d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b7db1a448724260893f0f61dd8c03d7\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E The people of New Zealand have spoken. Vaping is a serious issue and it is time for the Government to take action. I rise up\u00A0this morning to support this Government\u2019s work to get tough on vaping and particularly on youth vaping. This bill is a first step towards limiting youth vaping and addressing vaping issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022\u003EJust now we had our previous contributor from the Labour Party, Ingrid Leary, mention how she is passionate about addressing vaping issues, but I want to emphasise that I haven\u2019t seen any action in the past six years to address the issues, and now they say that we don\u2019t care. We are the Government who actually put this bill on the Table, so I don\u2019t know what she was trying to say or what she was meaning, when saying that we are not taking action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s go back to the bill. The centrepiece of this bill is the complete ban on disposable vape devices. Also, it is important to recognise that this bill has a significant increase in fines for retailers caught cash-selling vapes to under-18s\u2014from $10,000 to $100,000. It also introduces additional restrictions on the visibility of vaping products, and one of the best ones is banning new vape shops from operating near schools and early childhood centres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022\u003EDuring the submissions stage, we received and considered submissions from 849 groups and individuals. We had the privilege of hearing 41 submitters, both in person and by video conference. Because of them, we were able to strengthen this bill to serve its purpose. I also want to mention some of the great ideas that are out of scope, including licensing all retailers, the possibility of introducing density limits for specialist vape retailers, reducing the nicotine labels, and introducing plain packaging. Also, we heard feedback from local constituents and also from a lot of health foundations, especially the Asthma and Respiratory Foundation. They all agree that this bill is a positive step forward in the fight against youth vaping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022\u003EI believe that this bill is the first step towards limiting youth vaping and addressing vape issues. Also, we believe it is true that there is more work to do, and I\u2019m looking forward to this House making more progress in due course. I commend this bill to the\u00A0House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e32fc2f28c164b2993c3b475fa6eb97f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e32fc2f28c164b2993c3b475fa6eb97f\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I listen to that member Dr Carlos Cheung\u2019s contribution, talking about the past six years, what we know is, actually, the blueprint for how we can reduce the impacts of these types of vaping methods, so we can reduce the impact of smoking in our communities, was already set out. There was a plan to make sure that we could eliminate smoking in this country, so we could continue to protect young people from the harms of smoking. That\u2019s the blueprint for how we can really achieve this, with such an important matter like vaping, which is why, yes, we do support this bill. The member said that it\u2019s a step forward. Well, it might be a step forward in the right direction, but it\u2019s a long way from home plate. It\u2019s a long way from where we actually need to be to reduce the harms of vaping in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EI question some of the motives when we look towards the changing of eliminating smoking in a generation, yet just taking baby steps to make sure that we can support the elimination of vaping, or at least to minimise the harm of vaping in our communities for our young people. For me, these things go hand in hand. They are not something that should be seen in isolation whereby smoking is right over here and vaping is over here. That\u2019s not the point. We need to be making something that\u2019s far more coherent in order to make people understand that, yes, while we might accept that vaping can be used as a cessation tool, what we need to do is stop it getting into the hands of the people who don\u2019t smoke; stop it from getting into the hands of the people like our young people, who have caught this craze\u2014caught this bottled lightning, if you will, because that\u2019s the way it just rapidly took over the country for our young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EI think of my nephew who, sadly, got caught at school with a vape in his bag. He\u2019s only 13 years old. I love my nephew. It would have been easy to crack down on our nephew because he got caught with a vape in his bag. I look at my Auntie Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, because she knows my nephew very well. It\u2019s her mokopuna, so perhaps we blame my auntie. None the less, the point here is \u201Cmonkey see, monkey do\u201D, and if our young people continue to see vapes, regardless of the kinds of parameters that this bill might put in place to make sure that it might be harder for the operator to sell, harder for the young person to get it, the fact remains that when they see these examples in their environment and in their community, they think it\u2019s OK to do it. They think it\u2019s the right thing to do, which is why, as I reflect on the member who contributed before me, asking about what Labour did in six years, well, I take us back to just a very brief journey to well over 20 years ago\u2014and, once again, my colleague and Auntie Mariameno Kapa-Kingi will know this very, very well. The pathway that was set out for banning smoking in this country\u2014that\u2019s the blueprint for how we do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EAs this bill continues to progress, I appreciate this is the second reading, but it\u2019s not too late to make even more changes. It\u2019s not too late to make this thing even better, to make sure that we follow that blueprint so that we can minimise the harm and reduce the harm and, in fact, get rid of the harm in our communities. I think that\u2019s the opportunity we\u2019ve got here. We know that when it gets through to the next stage, there\u2019ll be a chance to make sure we can strengthen this bill. I\u2019m going to look at colleagues right across the House to see if we can do that, to make sure that when we come to the third reading it\u2019s going to be something that our community deserves; to make sure that my 13-year-old nephew doesn\u2019t have a vape in his bag, that all of our tamariki right across Aotearoa New Zealand don\u2019t have vapes in their bags.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022 data-id=\u0022388e7c715ce64e34970c1224703d6acb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022388e7c715ce64e34970c1224703d6acb\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I take the point about a blueprint, but it matters that we act on it and that\u2019s what this bill is doing. Just two weeks ago I met with Vape-Free Kids NZ, an organisation of young people in our community, in K\u0101piti. I met with Keisha and Riley; I met with Yelin and Abigail, and they told me the impact that they saw. They told me what this meant to them and what they would like to see happen. They talked about what their experience is at their high schools. I hear this from friends and family as well. Last year in particular, the constant fire alarms from people smoking in the toilet\u2014but to the extent now that they\u2019re telling me people are smoking in class. They\u2019ve got the ones now without all the smoke, and they\u2019ll hide it down their sleeve. They thought some teachers knew. This is how bad the culture has got.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EThis is why we need to take definitive action to crack down on the availability. That\u2019s why they were so keen to see restrictions on the sale and supply of disposable vapes, which have just made it far too easy to get a hold of them. That\u2019s why we talked about how young people could get a hold of vapes, how easy it was for them and how we had to crack down. We actually had to step up the consequence for people that continued to break the law and provide vapes to young people that\u2014yes, I understand there\u2019s an element where people will always be able to get a hold of them when they\u2019re really determined, but we have to make it difficult and we have to put a consequence in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EThe other thing we talked about was visibility of products when they\u2019re on sale and the impact that we know it\u2019s had, and restricting the visibility of products in supermarkets for cigarettes and dairies and places like that, how that would make a meaningful difference. That\u2019s what this bill does. This bill bans the manufacturing, sale, and supply of disposable vapes. This bill increases the consequence, the penalties for unlawful sale of vapes to people underage, and it imposes visibility restrictions for vaping products. It is a meaningful thing to do. As I met with these remarkable young women, they told me what they wanted to see happen, I said I would come and support this bill for them, and so on behalf of them now, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022 data-id=\u002283497acc42d14dac862ac8098fa78059\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283497acc42d14dac862ac8098fa78059\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to be able to make a contribution in this House, as always, on this Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2). I wasn\u2019t a member of the Health Committee that was examining this bill, but I think many New Zealanders, and especially all parents in New Zealand, will join me in their concern around the rise of vaping in New Zealand and agree with the Health Committee\u2014and, indeed, many parties in this House\u2014that what we\u2019re currently doing is not going far enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EI say that because of the sudden\u2014what appears to be, anyway\u2014rise in the popularity of vaping, and also the concerning targeting that we have seen towards children. I\u2019m reminded of a particular sweet that my daughter recently bought from the dairy. When she was eating it, it looked like she was vaping. I don\u2019t know\u2014many people in this House may remember lollies from their past that looked like cigarettes, which were quite popular. I was alarmed to see that this has now crept into people who are manufacturing sweets. I think it\u2019s indicative of the huge problem of vaping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EAlthough we do support this bill, I would urge the Minister and the Government to think carefully about the upcoming committee stage on this and whether there are further changes, as indicated by the Labour and Green parties in their minority view in the select committee report, to take this further. I don\u2019t think anyone in this House wants to see a greater proliferation of vaping. I don\u2019t think we want to see this be an issue in schools, which, as previous speakers have said, it is. I do think now is the time, if we want to stop this becoming as much a part of our culture as cigarette smoking has been to previous generations, to actually make some strong decisions that keep our children safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003ENow, that\u2019s not to take away the role that vapes do have as a smoking cessation tool, and I think that that is clear in the deliberations around that, but it would have been nice to see a few further changes in relation to this bill that would have made accessing vapes more difficult and less attractive for children. These have been mentioned by other speakers, but options included a kind of sinking lid on vape stores so that once one closes, another one doesn\u2019t open; greater limitations on the flavours that you would have, and this kind of links into my point around this particular brand of sweet that my child was able to buy from the dairy that looked very similar to a vape; and also to minimise that appeal\u2014I think we need to realise that there is an incentive for companies that produce vapes to make these products attractive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EWe, as the decision makers in the room and the adults in the room, are the ones that have to take responsibility for ensuring that this is not targeted towards children in a way that would make them more susceptible to taking up a habit that we know is likely to be detrimental to their long-term health. We\u2019ve had great success in terms of smoking cessation in relation to other products that contain nicotine, and we have to take a different route in relation to vapes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003EWe will be supporting this bill, but we do urge the Government to continue to be open-minded to the large amount of our community that is calling for even greater restrictions on vapes, and that includes, very importantly, parents and people who are concerned about the future of our children with this relatively new product that seems to be infiltrating all of our communities. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u002214323f3efb5241638c64dcff9281916b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214323f3efb5241638c64dcff9281916b\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I\u2019ve listened to the contributions from both sides of the House, and I\u2019ve thought about those in my generation\u2014Generation Z; born after 1997\u2014many of whom have taken up vaping but would have never ever considered taking up cigarette smoking. It\u2019s about making it more challenging and difficult to take that first step.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003EThis legislation, the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2), is focused on the banning of disposable vapes; increasing the penalties for unregulated sales of the product, particularly to minors; and imposing retail visibility restrictions. We think about how many vape stores we walk past nowadays that weren\u2019t there 10 or 15 years ago, with the big, bright lights, the attractive qualities to them, to entice people into their stores to purchase their products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003EI think the aspect that stands out the most to me is the last point, around including early childhood education centres into the proximity restrictions for vape stores to be established. I think of my Bay of Plenty electorate and my home and the number of incredible early childhood centres we\u2019ve got\u2014we\u2019ve got BestStart, and Future Focus, and JeMMa\u2019s, and many, many others that play an incredible role in our local community\u2014and ensuring that vape stores aren\u2019t set up next door to them, so that, as Camilla Belich said previously, we\u2019re not making it an attractive quality for kids to want to take up in the first place, and that\u00A0we\u2019re\u00A0putting in measures to prevent them from even considering taking that first step into vaping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to reach our target of Smokefree 2025 next year, but there is more work to be done in the vaping space. There\u2019s more work to be done to say, yes, \u201CWe want to have fewer people smoking in New Zealand, but we want to have fewer people vaping as well\u201D, and so we need to do our part as the regulators and those who create the law to make it difficult for people to take that first step into vaping. This legislation does that, so I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022 data-id=\u002273833163247a4a35a9f8d9a653991e94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273833163247a4a35a9f8d9a653991e94\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. I stand to take a short call on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. Just as a brief summary for our wh\u0101nau who are watching: this bill will ban the sale of disposable vapes by the end of this year, and it also increases fines for selling vapes to under-18-year-olds, and it\u2019s going to introduce further restrictions on retailers who are selling vapes. From that perspective, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori is supportive of the bill before us. We know, as tangata whenua, how cigarette smoking and vaping has become a real scourge on our communities and we have real concern with the lack of support around those of our rangatahi and tamariki who have started vaping and are, in fact, addicted to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EI do want to caution\u2014and I think we\u2019ve all said this, but part of this is that, while we support this bill, I guess the hypocrisy is that we can\u2019t help but keep in mind that the Government is restricting vapes but appear also that they\u2019re continuously pushing cigarettes. From Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2019s perspective auahi kati [smoke-free] is where we should be. It\u2019s how we should have stayed focused; and there have been numerous templates, blueprints, and red prints put out to actually show how communities should be progressing towards these targets. Our biggest fear is that we are bringing in nicotine to our communities. I guess, what we know from our young people\u2019s perspective\u2014and there were some amazing submissions and there have been some amazing advocates\u2014is that the more you vape, the more your brain and your body get used to having nicotine, and the harder it is to go without it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EWe are talking about young people. As my colleague on the other side, Peeni Henare, shared about his 13-year-old nephew, we\u2019re seeing eight-year-olds and 10-year-olds becoming addicted. I just want to talk about what that looks like so we can identify the symptoms in our communities. Nicotine withdrawal symptoms make our rangatahi and our tamariki, our eight-year-olds, our 10-year-olds, feel extremely irritable, restless. They feel sad and down. They feel anxious. They get tired and groggy. They have trouble concentrating. They have trouble sleeping. They have trouble thinking clearly at all. They feel hunger and they have intense\u2014intense\u2014cravings for a fix, and this is going on inside our very communities, inside our schools. Actually, probably the biggest shock for everyone in Aotearoa is that it isn\u2019t just M\u0101ori-centric. It hits us harder, but, actually, it\u2019s hitting middle class, upper class white families as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EWhat we need to be really mindful of is that, while we see these symptoms and we put these actions in place and, indeed, support the Government\u2019s bill\u2014what we also need to remind ourselves of is the services, the support, and the empathy that we need to be seen as having for our communities who have absolutely no investment around them in how to deal with this. That was probably the biggest concern that came out that we heard loudly and clearly. Absolutely, we heard from the Mua\u016Bpoko Tribal Authority. They had absolute zero tolerance for smoking and vaping, and the same with Ng\u0101ti Tukorehe, because if we look\u00A0in my takiw\u0101 in Taitoko\u2014Levin\u2014there are 31 locations selling vapes in Levin\u201431 locations. I caution that we do this wisely\u2014that we together, across parties, make an effort to make sure that those communities have the support, the wraparound support, inside their schools, inside the homes, where a lot of these, again, rangatahi and children are suffering these symptoms without us even knowing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EI guess the biggest concern that we saw when the changes were happening within the cigarette and the smoke-free targets and, indeed, the investment, is that there\u2019s a lack of recognition in the connection to where those rangatahi go with those health concerns. So, n\u014D reira, we leave that there and look forward to the next stage of this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002281ff4983aa3747c987dd52c2668670a0\u0022\u003EResidential Tenancies Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002289af63f312a64c79a80fecee85b99740\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u00226611bda3214d47c487a71d0922927368\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226611bda3214d47c487a71d0922927368\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Housing: I present a legislative statement on the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d4966025ac849e795b48d8ff08b9ec5\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef24422687994d94ac5ca1b3719d6c75\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThe bill was introduced and referred to the Social Services and Community Committee in May this year. The bill proposes sensible, much-needed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act 1986 (RTA). It will increase flexibility and tautoko for landlords to end tenancies, aiming to remove barriers to increasing private rental housing supply, as well as introducing new provisions making it easier for tenants to keep pets, which I will refer to here on out as \u201Cm\u014Dkai\u201D in this speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThe bill makes a number of changes to tenancy termination provisions in the RTA, returning the law to what it was before changes were made in 2020. Firstly, the bill reintroduces 90-day no-cause terminations, which give landlords the ability to end a periodic tenancy with 90 days\u2019 notice without providing a reason; returns the ability for a landlord to\u00A0give notice to terminate a tenancy at the end of a fixed term without providing a reason; reduces landlord termination notice periods for periodic tenancies to 42 days where a reason\u00A0for termination is provided; and reduces notice periods for tenants in periodic tenancies from 28 days to 21 days, which will increase flexibility and reduce costs for tenants looking to move. Secondly, the bill introduces m\u014Dkai-related amendments which will make it easier for tenants to keep m\u014Dkai in rental properties, balancing the interests of landlords and tenants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThe bill was reported back on 7 November and I would like to thank the committee for its careful consideration of the bill and the 1,655 submissions received from 1,634\u00A0submitters. I\u2019d also like to thank and mihi out to those who have made oral and written submissions on the bill. Those submitters responded and represented a good cross-section of groups and individuals in the tenancy sector. The committee has considered the bill and recommends it be passed with amendments to a number of clauses, which I tautoko in full. The committee has not recommended any changes to the termination provisions. I commend this decision, as the bill, as drafted, reflects our intention and delivers on coalition agreement commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard from landlords that the changes made to tenancy terminations in 2020 increased risk and costs, and discouraged them from renting to tenants who, for example, do not have perfect references or a steady job. The changes in the bill will address the concerns of landlords and encourage landlords back into the market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003ENow, turning to m\u014Dkai provisions\u2014we know that m\u014Dkai are important members of many wh\u0101nau. I have two myself: a three-legged tabby called Scout and a ranga called Haku. However, it is currently difficult to find m\u014Dkai-friendly properties. The bill makes changes to rental laws to make it easier for tenants with m\u014Dkai to find a home. The bill introduces the ability for landlords to charge a m\u014Dkai bond of up to two weeks\u2019 rent. It also introduces a new m\u014Dkai consent system, which sets out how a tenant may obtain agreement or consent from a landlord for keeping a m\u014Dkai\u2014and that\u2019s not a M\u014Dkai P\u0101tea by the way, my whanaunga Shanan. Landlords will only be able to refuse a m\u014Dkai if they have reasonable grounds for doing so. The bill also changes the damage liability rules for m\u014Dkai damage, which means tenants will be liable for the cost of all m\u014Dkai-related damage that\u2019s not fair wear and tear\u2014my cats rip up our chairs every day. The bill excludes disability assist m\u014Dkai\u2014kur\u012B\u2014as m\u014Dkai, so those disability assist dogs are excluded as pets. This means a tenant will not have to pay a m\u014Dkai bond or obtain consent from their landlord for these kur\u012B.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EBased on submissions, the committee has recommended some sensible changes to the bill to make the provisions more workable. Firstly, they recommended a couple of changes to the m\u014Dkai bond provisions to clarify that a landlord may only require one m\u014Dkai bond at any one time per tenancy, and a m\u014Dkai bond can be paid out during the tenancy, not just at the conclusion of the tenancy. These changes will allow tenants who have lost a m\u014Dkai to get their m\u014Dkai bond refunded during a tenancy. If, later during the tenancy, the tenant wanted to get another m\u014Dkai\u2014maybe another cat, in my instance\u2014the landlord will be able to request another m\u014Dkai bond to be paid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003ESecondly, if a tenant keeps a m\u014Dkai without their landlord\u2019s agreement or consent, that would be an unlawful act. Given there are four new unlawful acts for landlords in the bill, this new unlawful act provides for a more balanced set of obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThirdly, some amendments have been made to the reasonable grounds on which a landlord can refuse a tenant\u2019s request to keep a m\u014Dkai\u2014a couple of minor changes to make the grounds more workable, and two additional reasonable grounds for refusal of consent have been added to do with tenant non-compliance and the number of m\u014Dkai being requested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EFourth, the bill now includes a non-exhaustive list of reasonable conditions which a landlord could attach to a m\u014Dkai consent. These are: a tenant agreeing to pay a m\u014Dkai bond, a requirement for a m\u014Dkai to be restrained while the landlord is on the premises, and a requirement for carpets to be cleaned to a professional standard if the m\u014Dkai is allowed inside.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003ENow, before members bring up the \u201Cwhy should a tenant have to pay a m\u014Dkai bond for a goldfish in a bowl\u201D? example, I want to mention another very constructive change recommended by the committee. Any m\u014Dkai-keeping conditions will be subject to the proviso that they are reasonable, having regard to the nature of the premises and the type of the m\u014Dkai. This means landlords can only set m\u014Dkai conditions in terms of the particular circumstances\u2014for example, the m\u014Dkai propensity to cause damage. It might not, for example, be reasonable to charge a m\u014Dkai bond or require the carpets to be professionally cleaned for a goldfish, for an ika. Finally, some tweaks have been made to the m\u014Dkai damage liability clause. As introduced, the bill made tenants liable for damage caused directly by a m\u014Dkai. The amendment makes a tenant liable for the cost of any damage caused as a result of keeping a m\u014Dkai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003ESome minor and technical amendments and changes have been recommended to improve the clarity and efficiency of the law. The committee has recommended changes to clarify that a landlord may prohibit smoking inside the main premises. In other areas of the premises, a landlord will remain able to prohibit smoking where this would be consistent with a party\u2019s broader rights and responsibilities provided by this Act. This will ensure landlords are able to prevent damage inside the main k\u0101inga\u2014the main home\u2014while enabling a common-sense approach to other areas based on the specific circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EIn addition, in response to submitter suggestions, the committee recommended changes and clarifications related to strengthening the retaliatory termination provisions, which set out that it is unlawful to serve a termination notice in retaliation to a tenant enforcing their rights or making a complaint about the landlord. Currently, there are 28-working-day limitations for tenants applying to the Tenancy Tribunal seeking an order that the termination of their tenancy was retaliatory and therefore unlawful. Feedback considered by the komiti suggested that evidence that a termination was retaliatory may take time to emerge, and tenants may have other reasons for delaying an application to the tribunal. They also heard that landlords may serve retaliatory notices to tenants who exercise their rights under enactments other than the RTA. In response to this feedback, the komiti recommended the 28-working-day limitation to apply to the tribunal be removed. The default limit under the RTA\u201412 months following the end of the tenancy\u2014will apply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThe bill has also been brought in to clarify that the landlord may not terminate a tenancy in retaliation to the exercise of any power or function conferred on any person by the RTA or by any other enactment. The bill proposes that the Tenancy Tribunal be allowed to make decisions on the papers\u2014that referring only to documents provided by the parties, rather than through a hearing. Initially, this included a requirement that the tribunal seek parties\u2019 views on this prior to scheduling a hearing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThe aim of this amendment is to improve efficiency for parties engaging with the tribunal, helping with wait times. However, the komiti had feedback that requiring parties to be consulted before a hearing is scheduled will slow the process down. As a result, the committee recommended that the bill is amended to remove the requirement to consult with parties before scheduling a hearing. Parties will have the ability to provide their whakaaro\u2014their views\u2014once the hearing has been scheduled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EIn addition, technical amendments include enabling the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment to approve methods of payments to it without needing to create regulations\u2014hallelujah; changing the maximum duration of a Tenancy Tribunal order for rent reduction from six to 12 months; and updating the exclusion in the RTA relating to emergency housing\u2014whare ohotata\u2014following work by Te Manat\u016B Whakahiato Ora, the Ministry of Social Development, to review the emergency housing programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, colleagues, members of this House, I once again would like to thank the people who took the time to make a submission on this bill, and the committee for their consideration and recommendations. I\u2019m very appreciative of your patience in listening to my k\u014Drero and commentary, particularly about the m\u014Dkai\u2014the pets. Madam Speaker, I recommend this bill to the Whare, this fine Whare P\u0101remata, and thank you for the opportunity. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022f433ae3b36544f1f9634d67b3c2384af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f433ae3b36544f1f9634d67b3c2384af\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u00229355a4385ea3459da2c3af38d3540440\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229355a4385ea3459da2c3af38d3540440\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s always interesting at a second reading speech to take note of what the Minister emphasises in\u00A0that speech. There\u2019s a lot in this bill and a lot that the committee have reported back on. Now, members of the public who listened to that speech would think, and they\u2019d be forgiven for doing so, that this bill was all about pets, because that\u2019s all the Minister basically talked about, but if you look at the legislative statement that the Minister introduced to the House today, the primary purpose of this bill is to remove barriers to rental supply and incentivise landlords back into the market. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll explore that a little bit more in a moment, but I\u2019ll get right off the bat that the provisions that are in here around pets are worth a go. We\u2019re not fully convinced that they will work, but in the absence of anything else, it\u2019s definitely worth supporting. We do support that. The clarification around domestic violence provisions, that definitely has our support. Of course a landlord should be able to determine whether a tenant can or cannot smoke in their premises. That makes sense. Those things are not in dispute and if, as was presented, this bill was only about that, then it would have our support, but it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EWhat this is about is making it easier for landlords to kick tenants out. It\u2019s all outlined in the legislative statement and it\u2019s outlined in the commentary from the select committee on this, the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. The rationale behind that, according to the Government, is that if Parliament makes it easier for landlords to kick tenants out, then more landlords would enter the market. That is a flawed rationale, and I\u2019ll explain why. If we\u2019re not building houses and increasing the housing supply\u2014be it privately or through community housing providers and K\u0101inga Ora\u2014and more landlords enter the market in the absence of the interest deductibility rules that were in place, there\u2019s only one thing that will happen. There will be competition on existing stock from speculators and landlords and investors. That drives prices up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a few aspects here. If landlords are the ones purchasing homes, it would reverse the trend that we\u2019ve seen over the last few years of first-home buyers entering the market, and if first-home buyers aren\u2019t entering the market, they remain renters. And if, as we have seen, the Government has essentially paused 50 percent of K\u0101inga Ora builds\u2014there were 5,000 built last year; there\u2019s likely to be 2,500 built this year and significantly less the following years\u2014and community housing providers have only been funded to 750 a year, that is a significant reduction in the number of houses available for people who don\u2019t own their home and now, as a result of this, can\u2019t buy a home. That\u2019s increased competition on rentals. Rents go up. Yet this bill proposes that making it easier to kick tenants out is actually in the tenant\u2019s interest, and that doesn\u2019t add up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EWhat this bill will do is it will increase the uncertainty of a tenant. Knowing that it\u2019s easier to be kicked out for no reason, no cause, when you have a significant increase in the number of people seeking rentals, that is an uncertain and unstable existence and likely to be unaffordable. If the Government took building homes seriously, perhaps they might have a point, but they don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EIn the absence of building houses\u2014and keep in mind that 12,000 construction workers have lost their jobs since this Government came in and many of those have gone to Australia. Houses are simply not being built and the Government has no grounds to claim that this bill is in tenants\u2019 interests when we are going backwards in building houses privately and the numbers of social houses and community houses are falling through the floor. That is bad news for everybody. It\u2019s bad news for tenants, it\u2019s bad news for first-home buyers, and I think it is telling that the Minister chose to portray this bill as a bill about pets rather than as the bill that it actually is: a bill that will make it easier for landlords to kick tenants out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003ENow, that has to be considered in the context of emergency housing, because if people can\u2019t find a rental because there are more people seeking rentals, because they\u2019re not entering the market, that means the only option available to them, in many instances, is emergency housing. But, as the Minister\u2019s own advice says, the people that are leaving emergency housing are doing so for two reasons: they are finding a place in a social house funded and\u00A0built by the previous Labour Government, or they are being kicked out of emergency housing or not being let in in the first place. That\u2019s why the numbers are dropping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EIf, as has been established by the Government\u2019s own figures, the Government isn\u2019t building social houses\u2014not to anywhere near the extent that it has been\u2014sooner or later the houses that are being used to put people from emergency housing into housing will dry up, because the numbers definitely don\u2019t meet the demand. By the Minister\u2019s own words, as quoted in the media, the Government doesn\u2019t know where 20 percent of the people that have left emergency housing have gone. They can only account for some of them, and they are going into houses that were built and paid for by the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EWhere this relates to the bill is that we will have higher levels of homelessness and higher levels of competition for rental markets. Rents have already gone up in the last 12\u00A0months at a record rate. If you look at the inflation figures produced by the Reserve Bank, there are three drivers of inflation: insurance, rates, and rent\u2014record increases. This bill will only make that worse, and it will only make a tenant\u2019s existence not only more expensive, possibly unaffordable, but more insecure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003EHow on earth does this bill live up to the promises that this Government made? They promised they would build more houses than the last Government; that\u2019s already broken. They promised that rents would go down; that\u2019s already broken. The only answer to those two challenges is to make it easier for landlords to kick tenants out. It\u2019s shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022 data-id=\u00226bbabca4807942a188a6c8c01db88286\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bbabca4807942a188a6c8c01db88286\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Today, I am going to be speaking on behalf of the Green Party and our views on these changes to our rental laws here in Aotearoa. It\u2019s really important that this bill gets the attention that it needs, because, at the end of the day, it impacts more than a million people. There are an estimated 1.2 million renters in this country, and these changes are going to impact so deeply because it gets at the fundamental basis on which we all rely, which is the roof over our head. We all acknowledge that if you don\u2019t have a solid roof over your head, if you can\u2019t return back home to your home every single day and know that you are safe and secure, then how are you supposed to do literally anything else in your life? That is the one thing that all of us need to be provided, and that\u2019s why it is provided for in international conventions that say human beings have a right to shelter, but, actually, we\u2019re trying to go further than that to say human beings have a right to safe, warm, and affordable housing. These changes are massive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EThe kind of overarching point that I want to make on this bill is that I feel and we feel\u00A0that these changes have, actually, in a way, been paid for, because if you look at the levels of donations that different Government parties have had\u2014and we\u2019ve got those on the record\u2014we see that from 2021 to 2023, the National Party received over $1.3 million in donations from the property industry, the ACT Party received over $830,000 worth of donations from the property industry, and New Zealand First received over $300,000 worth of donations from the property industry. My sincere belief, after going through the select committee process for this bill, is that the evidential basis for this bill is not there and the support for this bill is not there because 97 percent of submitters opposed this bill; 53 percent of landlords and property managers opposed this bill. Therefore, it does make you question\u2014and I\u2019m not making assumptions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022787081fea41744bd9c1ea85858ad30de\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just be careful how one\u2019s going to phrase this. I think the point\u2019s been made and I think, probably, come back to the points in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a81c84cd9804bdb88d89d1e80b469ee\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, will do, Madam Speaker. I just do want to highlight that it is reasonable for people to question how this bill came about when there isn\u2019t an evidential basis for it and when the submissions are very clearly opposed to this bill. I wanted to make that point, because it is the belief of our party that these changes have been paid for. I\u2019ll move on now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002211e9e1f818754d97b60bba4b18e5dc03\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dab4a6a0fcef4a4ab0201c4bf0100ff7\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. That\u2019s a very serious allegation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022900aae0d39614b2db0a6a4e56da2d837\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, yeah\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002211e9e1f818754d97b60bba4b18e5dc03\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252805f56019f4be580f0665c6bdef0fe\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Could I just more fully formulate on that. We heard in the previous bill a speaker cast aspersions on political parties, as well, in terms of the motivation for bringing legislation forward, and I think that\u2019s unbecoming of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a6b86da9ffd4d04b347d4e5a2103003\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: On the first part of the point of order, the allegation was not actually made. I stopped the member before the member got to the point of making that allegation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EJust before, I imagine, Ingrid Leary was going to want to speak to the point of order, I also put this member back on the bill when she stood up on behalf of a colleague with some information that has been publicly debated in this House and then we went back to the bill. On that particular occasion, yes, the member did say some things but they had already been publicly debated in this House. I call Tamatha Paul to continue her speech. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221248c7509ea4f1bad26ffca0112f9be\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m going to move on to the other parts. Thankfully, in this bill there are a lot of different areas that we can talk about. I\u2019m happy to move beyond that one, but it did need to be said. Thank you, Madam Speaker for your understanding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EThis bill has been couched in fluff\u2014it\u2019s been couched in fluff\u2014to try and hide the fact that the biggest, most detrimental impact that this bill will have is no-cause evictions. The point was made by my colleague Kieran McAnulty that the Minister when he was promoting this bill talked a lot about the pet provisions, and they\u2019re welcome. As a renter who has a dog, yeah, those are welcome changes because it is really hard to have a pet and to rent, but I actually wouldn\u2019t want those additions if it meant that 1.2 million people will be potentially at risk of being kicked out of their homes for no good reason. All of these changes that are made to couch the real devastating impact and the devastating potential of this bill are simply\u00A0not good enough. That\u2019s why we won\u2019t be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EActually, my colleague Francisco Hernandez just made a really good comment\u2014that the Government doesn\u2019t want to stand on this bill and that they\u2019re actually ashamed of what they\u2019re doing, because they know that no-cause evictions are going to have a disastrous impact, as they have around the world. If you look at the UK, they\u2019ve got this thing called \u201Cno-fault evictions\u201D, which, I understand, is the leading cause of homelessness in the UK. That was no-fault evictions that did that, and now we\u2019re trying to do the exact same thing. We\u2019re not trying to do anything unique here. No-cause evictions is not unique. You look at developed countries around the world who have tried this out before and it has led to homelessness. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve been so staunch in our opposition against this bill, because we know what happens when things like no-cause evictions are introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EIn reality, there are no tools for tenants to be able to fight it, because that is the insidious nature of no-cause evictions\u2014they don\u2019t need a reason to kick you out, and they will kick you out. It renders renters absolutely powerless, not to mention that we\u2019re not even going to go to the Tenancy Tribunal in the first place, because what resources does your typical renter have against their landlord who has got money, who has got power, who has got the law on their side; and you\u2019re just a renter who has nothing to fight against that? That is the insidious nature of the no-cause evictions. I do believe that the Government is ashamed of their own policies because that\u2019s why they\u2019ve tried to couch it in all the fluffy stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EI also want to talk briefly about the changes to domestic violence. I know that this is a really sensitive topic, so I will try to approach it as sensitively as I can. I want to say that these don\u2019t go far enough when the result of no-cause evictions is that many people who are in extremely challenging situations in their living conditions will be put under further stress by no-cause evictions. If you don\u2019t have housing security, and you are going through a difficult experience such as domestic violence, then you are not going to want to leave your home situation, because you will be scared to not be able to find another rental. Yes, the changes that this bill makes around domestic violence are important, but also just take a minute to think about how much more pressure you will be putting on people and their personal situations when they are constantly living on the edge and unsure of whether they\u00A0will even be able to stay in their homes or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003ENow, I don\u2019t want to just talk about the bad, because we have got a range of amendments and suggestions to make this bill better, because if there\u2019s anything we can do to make this slightly better, we will do it. We will be bringing these amendments to the committee of the\u00A0whole House stage. I would really ask that other parties would consider the merits of these\u00A0suggestions, because we think they\u2019re ones that could be accepted and that could get support around the House. Some of those suggestions are around clarifying the pet provisions a bit more, because it was clear through the select committee process that there was still a bit\u00A0of confusion in the public\u2014for example, whether disability dogs were classified within these provisions or not, and a whole range of other things that we explored in the select committee phase. I would really ask that people consider these amendments and these changes, because they are doable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EAt the end of the day, it\u2019s really hard to support this bill when the core aspect of it is so morally indefensible. Also, I think that the really frustrating thing with this bill is that the Government has really tried to feed the public a story that justifies this bill. We\u2019ve been told that these changes will allow for property managers and landlords to take a chance on riskier tenants. There\u2019s actually no evidence behind that. I was really disappointed in the analysis and the robustness of the advice that we received on the bill in relation to that assumption, because there wasn\u2019t any evidence behind it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EThis is not the first time that this Government has passed a housing bill that doesn\u2019t have a strong evidential basis. With the interest deductibility work, we were told that this would drive downward pressure on rents; we are yet to see any of the evidence that backs that up. There was no evidence for that either. We\u2019re being told all of these lines and marketed these beliefs that this is what we should accept, but if you actually look at the evidence, it doesn\u2019t back up those assumptions that are being sold to the public, and that\u2019s because this Government treats policy and lawmaking like a marketing strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EBriefly, I\u2019ll touch on what our solutions would look like to actually transform the rental sector that we would like to see and that we would be willing to work with the Government on. We would love to see a rental warrant of fitness. This would drastically improve the quality of our rental housing, which we know, overwhelmingly, is damp, cold, and mouldy. We would like to see rent controls that actually limit the amount of times that landlords and property managers can increase the rent and how much they can increase it by, and we would like to see more regulation of the property manager world because we know that\u00A0they are not regulated, they do not have rules, and we need to have those in place so that tenants\u2019 rights are respected and upheld. That\u2019s our contribution, Madam Speaker. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022 data-id=\u00223072c576ce1a477f8880b37dcdd06984\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223072c576ce1a477f8880b37dcdd06984\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party in support of this bill. Firstly, I\u2019d just like to thank the submitters and also the other members of the Social Services and Community Committee, which I am part of. Anyone would think, listening to the last couple of speeches, that we have these mega landlords, that every landlord in New Zealand owns multiple homes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022820193bafed84a7688d0cb90b83ee213\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: We do have mega landlords in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d103e3a2724541fe8698ec375065a534\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE\u003C/span\u003E: Someone just said we do have mega landlords, but, as you are research-focused, I\u2019m sure you know how many there are, and there is not an awful lot. Most of the landlords in this country are actually mum and dad landlords that own no more than one or two homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003EWhen we\u2019re talking about the research around rentals and the fear that, actually, property owners have about renting their property, this is very real. When I talk to landlords or prospective landlords that have empty properties, one of their biggest fears is past tenants that they\u2019ve been unable to evict for multiple reasons. No good landlord would get rid of a good tenant. Let\u2019s make that really obvious. What is the justification for getting rid of a good tenant? There isn\u2019t. You have to advertise your rental. You have to go out there and actually do a whole bunch of things in order to get your property rented. If a tenant is good, you want to keep them. That\u2019s the whole point of renting your property\u2014to make money, to have a good property, and to provide a home for others\u2014so to turn around and say that this is not renter-focused I think is actually a big misjustice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003EI heard from the Labour speaker who mentioned rental increases. Well, actually, rental increases have slowed for the first time in six years. What we are doing is having an effect, and I think it\u2019s really important to note. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not going to sugarcoat the 90-day no-cause evictions. I think it\u2019s great, and I think it\u2019s something we need in order to give a lot more landlords out there, or potential landlords, the opportunity to rent their properties, alongside the fact that we do need to build more houses. Everybody failed to mention the Resource Management Act (RMA). The RMA has basically been hindering, whether it\u2019s the Government building houses or the private sector building houses. We\u2019re also sorting that out. I think that would actually go a long way to fix it. But one of the key things I really wanted to talk about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f85822f6b5e452089bcede16c49744f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: If members could keep it down a bit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022055ba8906e3548a2b20f48151767f084\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s all right. I think we like the spicy debate around here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b48ba65128ea4f8892a613442779fa74\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m having trouble listening to the member. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231e174835e134fb58495a2f36579d296\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s early morning for this, but one of the things I do want to talk about, and I think it\u2019s a huge win for us, is something that was a part of the ACT-National coalition, and it was the pet bonds. I think one of the main reasons around this\u2014or the driver of people not being able to rent a home is because they have their pets. I know how this feels, because I\u2019m actually one of them currently. My house is getting earthquake repairs\u2014long overdue\u2014and I need to try and find a short-term rental like an Airbnb. I\u2019ve got a dog and three cats, and it is impossible, OK? I could not find anywhere. We have my dog\u2014we\u2019ve got her in the kennels and it\u2019s stressful\u2014so I understand how that feels, and what I would really like to see is people being able to take their pets to other homes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003EThis policy has come around and we\u2019re hoping that it will make it easier, and we will see more, I feel, landlords saying, \u201CYep, you know what? There are some things here, the measures in place, for us to actually allow pets to be in our property.\u201D If you are a landlord and you\u2019re worried about what the provisions may be, there are actually good grounds for you to say, \u201CNo, actually, this property is not appropriate.\u201D But what it does do is it sets up the environment for landlords to say, \u201CYes, because I\u2019ve got the protections in place here.\u201D They have the bonds that they\u2019re able to take, and they\u2019re also able to recover any costs that are beyond wear and tear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003EAnyway, that\u2019s all I\u2019m going to say on this bill, but I commend it, and I would like, once again, to thank everybody who submitted on the bill. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d6b1cb96234e40859e9ded73c1202c16\u0022 data-id=\u00220c2aa28a952e471d915ceed82e16403a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d6b1cb96234e40859e9ded73c1202c16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c2aa28a952e471d915ceed82e16403a\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First in support of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. I was also on the Social Services and Community Committee, and I would like also to thank all of the submitters. There were a lot of submitters on this bill, for and against, so it was actually an interesting process for me to rehear what people felt and what people thought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d6b1cb96234e40859e9ded73c1202c16\u0022\u003EThere are several changes in this bill, as already debated in the House, some of them to support the private rental market and to remove some of the barriers in rental supply, and also to try and incentivise landlords to get back into the market. I do know a lot of people who left the market in the last few years, and they do now feel encouraged that they are going to be able to come back into the market. They\u2019ve had personal experience, not good experiences, and so they left the market, and now they are very happy to come into the market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d6b1cb96234e40859e9ded73c1202c16\u0022\u003EI will also talk a little bit about pets later on, but, firstly, I will just talk about reintroducing the 90-day no-cause terminations and why some of the people I spoke to, and some of the submissions that I heard, were in favour of this. They felt that it was going to be a balance now between the needs of the tenant and also what the landlords have been saying to them. It was interesting to hear both sides of the story, and I feel that we need to voice both sides of that story.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d6b1cb96234e40859e9ded73c1202c16\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m going to keep my contribution a little bit short, but I do want to talk about the fur babies, because I do have a lot of friends who look after fostered pets, and they\u2019ve said to me that it\u2019s so hard to find accommodation with pets, which is why we are getting so many on our hands at the moment. Over the last two or three years, with everyone being locked down, a lot of people really went out and got pets, and either they cannot now handle them or they just have too many, or they need to move and they can\u2019t find accommodation. For a very brief period of time, my husband and I had to find a furnished property just for a few months, and because I have one cat, I could not find anything. The only thing that got me into the accommodation was to say, \u201CLook, Thomas is blind. He\u2019s got beautiful eyes, but they don\u2019t work and he doesn\u2019t see. Thomas wouldn\u2019t even know what a curtain looks like to climb up.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d6b1cb96234e40859e9ded73c1202c16\u0022\u003EThose were the only conditions that got me into this rental accommodation. If it had been my other cat, Fergus, he would have wrecked everything, so I wouldn\u2019t have done that to the landlord. I really saw how difficult it was for me to find a place when we needed it urgently and no one would let us in, so I really welcome these provisions. I welcome the detail of the provisions to do with pets, as well, and I look forward to going through the committee of the whole House to hear the amendments from the other side and then to finally see this bill through. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022 data-id=\u0022746017eac0b94cefad06dd90ff1e405d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022746017eac0b94cefad06dd90ff1e405d\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E M\u014Drena t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. When the Minister first spoke this morning, and he used the term \u201Cm\u014Dkai\u201D, so, I mean, it\u2019s a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022876f879511ee4c3f9df2044a4d8e7c49\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: I thought that too. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288ce8f5008da411bb8fbc100af8eee05\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, exactly, right? I thought it was a kind of a\u2014there\u2019s a little bit of a play in there. Interestingly enough, \u201Cm\u014Dkai\u201D, where I come from, means \u201Cslave\u201D, and we\u2019ll leave that there until I see the Minister again. Save to say that when our reo is used in a way that is meant to do good, in my view\u2014there\u2019s a play here, which unfortunately for the majority who do not have te reo M\u0101ori in their makeup and in their reo, that\u2019s a shame because then it can be played. Those are the points I want to start with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EToo many renters, in my experience, need at least four or five months to get a blinking place. I\u2019m in Kait\u0101ia and I notice a m\u0101m\u0101 parked on the side of the road and I notice that her car is loaded with clothes in the back. Then I get closer and I see that she is stood outside and she\u2019s got her baby and she\u2019s feeding her baby and she\u2019s sleeping in her blinking car. I realise that across the whole of the motu there will be many, many a story like this, but she is a m\u0101m\u0101 with a new baby, trying to feed her baby on her own, and she was just kicked out of her whare, her rental, by a reasonable person. When I hear comments like, \u201CWell, you know, it\u2019s just mums and dads that are landlords\u201D, and then I hear the word \u201Cmarket\u201D, that\u2019s a very different concept and a different layer to understand landlords and what landlords can do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EIn my experience, landlords make it tough, and I\u2019ll use this expression \u201CRWB\u201D, which means \u201Crenting while brown\u201D\u2014that\u2019s tough. White privilege is an issue for brown folk, and I want to make these statements, and I know they might disturb some in the House, but it has to be understood, because the reality of just trying to get a rental property is that you\u2019ve got to ring up and put on your P\u0101keh\u0101 voice. Now, many P\u0101keh\u0101 may not actually get that, but it is true, and it is real. Unless you understand that, you\u2019re going to stand and take a speech and talk about it like\u2014because you are protected by the colour of your skin. Unless you understand that, you won\u2019t think about it, you won\u2019t understand it, and you will not describe it in the way in which it needs to be described.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003ETo the bill: does this bill help any of that? Not in a single way. When the Minister talked about m\u014Dkai, in my view, I kept hearing, I kept acknowledging, the whole slave concept and thinking that he has used that word in the worst possible way\u2014in the worst possible way. When the bill attempts to touch on and address our wh\u0101nau that are being harmed, that violence is the issue, I don\u2019t trust that. It is an issue, but I don\u2019t trust that it is understood and appreciated in this bill in a real and genuine and enduring way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve written this whole speech, but I haven\u2019t really referred to it much, so I\u2019m just going to keep going. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3a97b834bd9489caf1a3592a6fe4e98\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: It is the truth, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201f53c8bc00f49d4aa801399a673c358\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. It\u2019s easier and simpler to just talk about the reality of this situation, because without it, then we are all \u201Cspeeching\u201D and therefore we don\u2019t get to the heart of the matter. Renting while brown is true, right? Trying to buy a house, trying to buy your first house\u2014how impossible is that when you\u2019re just renting while brown, or working while brown, or driving while brown?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EAnyway, these are my comments. I do hope that the House starts to appreciate\u2014those who would not necessarily do so\u2014the points that I\u2019m making. White privilege is a thing. It\u2019s something we have to work against all the time; though I love my brownness, just by the way. Kia ora t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1e784dc8d5644cdaa31b2fe73739003\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1e784dc8d5644cdaa31b2fe73739003\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill and the ability in this bill for landlords to evict tenants with basically no good reason just shows that this is a Government that treats housing as a game of Monopoly that allows people to make a huge profit and treat it like a game instead of treating housing as a human right, and for people to be able to put roots down in the communities that they belong to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s make no mistake: all the glibness and all the bumper stickers from the previous Government speakers hide the fact that this bill will actually lead to greater homelessness. It will lead to precarity for renters and hardship, and people being discriminated against for who they are when they\u2019re simply trying to find a home to live in. Tamatha Paul already spoke about how this bill has no evidential basis, and I think it really says a lot about some of the previous speakers, who have no real connections serving our people who are on the street, living in cars, living in motels\u2014they are turning their backs on them now that they get to these positions of power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003ESome of us have directly worked with the communities affected by this bill. We have seen firsthand how people are being discriminated against, in real time\u2014people who are trying to find a home, people who are afraid to raise legitimate issues with the landlords out of fear that they will be retaliated against, people who have lost their tenancies because of the policy that is being reintroduced from back in the day, with the intergenerational impacts that having no-cause evictions causes to them and their communities, and how it locks them into poverty because it pushes them into homelessness, it pushes them into emergency housing, and it pushes them into getting into debt, just because they were trying to find a home to live in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really clear when we hear the language that has been spoken from the Government members around tenants\u2014talking about risky tenants but without actually explaining to us who those risky tenants are\u2014that they have no regard for the communities that have been left behind. I think that when they\u2019re saying, \u201Crisky tenants\u201D, they mean people in poverty, they mean disabled people, they mean people who have ill mental health, they mean brown people\u2014that is actually what they mean when they say, \u201Crisky tenants\u201D. They mean people who have been left behind by successive Governments, the people whom we should actually be serving, the people who deserve a home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EThis bill will actually not lead to greater housing access for people, especially when this Government is gutting K\u0101inga Ora\u2019s build programme. This is a Government that is literally building less public housing than previous Governments. How are we to believe that this Government has any intent to provide housing for the people that they are calling \u201Crisky\u201D, who they can\u2019t even name because they\u2019re too scared of actually acknowledging the communities that they\u2019re turning their backs on? We know that this bill is part of a bigger picture to serve the property developers that they actually serve rather than the communities on the ground who are experiencing the housing crisis at a more disproportionate rate than most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to hear MPs coming up and speaking about their own experiences as a tenant while we\u2019re on these privileged salaries, while we\u2019re privileged and speaking in this place. How out of touch can these MPs be, trying to relate their experiences of renting as privileged MPs when they\u2019re pushing a bill that will actually disempower and disenfranchise low-income communities? [Interruption] And their fake outrage over these comments won\u2019t hide the fact that this is the truth: a privileged bunch of people who are serving property developers and making the housing crisis worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003ENo-cause evictions will increase homelessness, no-cause evictions will lead to more people in emergency housing, no-cause evictions will widen the gap between M\u0101ori and the rest of us and will be a breach of Te Tiriti obligations by the Crown by failing to provide housing for people. Let\u2019s make it clear: the market will not fix the housing crisis, and no amount of fairytales will make that true. We should have a Government that is committed to building enough public housing so that no one lives in motels. We should have a Government that doesn\u2019t allow landlords to raise rents way above inflation, because rents are one of the driving factors when it comes to inflation; they\u2019re one of the driving factors when it comes to the cost of living crisis, actually, and the inequality crisis, because the rich are getting richer and this Government is enabling the poor to get poorer by gutting benefit increases, by enabling people to more easily become homeless.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EThe Greens will continue fighting against this Government\u2019s housing crisis agenda that will only serve property developers, and we will not buy any of this fake outrage as the Government and their friends benefit from the policies that will lead to more hardship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022739b3bbed7fe4186aa30494700144b3a\u0022 data-id=\u002247851f8cfb6d43f39cb6e01f0f201be5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022739b3bbed7fe4186aa30494700144b3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247851f8cfb6d43f39cb6e01f0f201be5\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E I stand in support of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. The Government\u2019s amendments, alongside the introduction of interest deductibility, are aimed at increasing housing supply in rental properties by giving landlords the confidence to enter or to re-enter the private rental market. The confidence is brought about by one part of the amendments which has to do with reintroducing landlords\u2019 ability to give notice to end a fixed-term tenancy at the end of that fixed term. It also provides for a 90-day, no-cause termination for periodic tenancies, where the landlord is not required to provide an explanation or reasons for that termination. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022739b3bbed7fe4186aa30494700144b3a\u0022\u003EThis part of the amendment bill is a part of the puzzle for New Zealand to have increased housing supply and increased affordability. Another part of that puzzle is the fast-track consenting process. There are many parts to the puzzle that we all have to deal with, which is to make housing more affordable and more available to everyone, and which is, I think, in everyone\u2019s interests and desire to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022739b3bbed7fe4186aa30494700144b3a\u0022\u003EThere has been a big mention about the assumption that landlords are going to kick tenants out for no good reason. I think that we, as members of this House, bear a big responsibility as to how we send a message to the public who are out there and who hear us and listen to us speak, and if they hear the words \u201Clandlords will start kicking tenants out\u00A0for no good reason\u201D, I think that poses a very large\u2014it inflames fear needlessly. I would like to just say that as much as there may be bad landlords, for sure\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d8f9269950c406ca4cd0e945fa7db78\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: There are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022739b3bbed7fe4186aa30494700144b3a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260dfbc3c52c04386989b474d906e16b7\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yes; I\u2019m not saying that there aren\u2019t\u2014there are surely, as everyone would agree, bad tenants, as well. We cannot look at the puzzle as just landlords being the evil side of this housing equation. The fact is that landlords who have good tenants will hold on and care for those tenants for as long as they can; in fact, that\u2019s a real challenge anywhere in the world. I just wanted to be able to present that aspect of this debate, because I think that sometimes there can be a tendency to just roll over the good things, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022739b3bbed7fe4186aa30494700144b3a\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also just highlight the point that regarding the pets portion of this bill, Women\u2019s Refuge at some point had a research study done that showed that the fear of losing pets and not being able to find an alternative rental for, mostly, women who are in troubled and violent family situations is a real thing that prevents them from making the move to leave. The pet provisions aren\u2019t just \u201Cfluff\u201D. I think that the pet provisions are there specifically to address a portion where Kiwis who have learnt to love their pets as part of their families have a better chance at finding a different place to live. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022 data-id=\u00226f456fcb2f88472e8009b4bf04a535aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f456fcb2f88472e8009b4bf04a535aa\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E We\u2019ve heard from the Government MPs. We\u2019ve learnt a lot about their pets today. I think Laura McClure has two cats and one dog, Tanya Unkovich has a blind cat, and Tama Potaka has a cat with three legs, but we did not hear much from the Government MPs about the tenants and the impact of this legislation on the tenants. I think the point was well made by Green MP Tamatha Paul that over a million New Zealanders are renting and this legislation has a huge impact and huge implications for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EThe other point made by Tamatha, which I think is a point fairly made, is that many outside of this House are questioning the motivation for the Government to push through with this legislation and whether or not there is any correlation between them being so willing to put this bill on the Table and the place from which some of the political donations came. Now, I\u2019m questioning that, but certainly people on the outside of this House are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002211e9e1f818754d97b60bba4b18e5dc03\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dc45f1c21324b16b7b17a860e903084\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. This was traversed when the previous Speaker was in the Chair early in this debate. There were some allegations of impropriety on this side of the House which we take offence to. The member has skirted around it a little bit but she\u2019s been very clear on what she\u2019s implied, and we do take offence to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e09d5e4c62d6494798ff93c5ec6a9cd9\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, there are some areas of this bill that we do\u00A0support, and that has been traversed by the previous Labour speaker, Kieran McAnulty, but fundamentally there is no way that we can support this bill when this bill is reintroducing the 90-day, no-cause termination of tenancy provision. Those that are on the select committee know that the vast majority of submitters were opposed to this bill and that that particular provision was brought up time and time again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EThe Government has said that this will enable or encourage there to be more of a supply of rental properties. That\u2019s simply not the case. The Government has been told what the risks are to reintroducing this provision and has chosen to ignore the risks that have been laid out in front of them. I\u2019m going to remind the Government so that they know that when they vote for this bill again, they are voting for it despite the areas of concern that have been raised by credible organisations and individuals, people like the Salvation Army, the Wellington Coalition for Housing and others. People like that have brought these issues to the attention of the Government and when they vote for it, they have to know that they are ignoring all of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EIt was raised that there are natural justice issues with having the 90-day, no-cause termination of tenancy provision. A tenant with their family\u2014maybe they\u2019re an individual; they may have kids and they\u2019re living in a house and then all of a sudden, with no reason, \u201CYou need to get out.\u201D What concerns me is that I was asking officials whether or not they had any information to provide to the select committee on how long it actually takes to get another rental property, particularly in the major centres around the country. Would they even be able to secure another rental property within three months? There was no information available to be given to the select committee, so we don\u2019t even know whether or not that is a fair or reasonable period of time for people to be able to find alternative accommodation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been an electorate MP for the better part of 16 years, and I have had people from my electorate come into the office freaking out, literally, because their tenancy has ended and they cannot find another rental property. I have had constituents come into my office who had ended up in emergency accommodation because they could not find an alternative rental property, and now here we are reintroducing this provision which does not provide the security of housing that we as parliamentarians and politicians should be providing to our constituents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EThere was concern raised by a number of submitters about the possibility of abuse by landlords here, and I\u2019m going to add to what Paulo Garcia said. Actually, the vast majority of landlords are good landlords. There are some that are not. The Property Investors Federation, who actually were supportive of this bill, said during their submission, or acknowledged, that the vast majority of tenants are good tenants. Then there are a few that are not. What we\u2019re concerned about is the possibility that this particular provision could lead to abuse of power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EMy concern, which was reiterated by submitters, is that vulnerable families or individuals living in rental properties who perhaps are not system savvy, or don\u2019t have the confidence to be able to take up the retaliatory provision in this bill and to go head to head against their landlord by taking them to the tribunal, are at risk. What if their home does not meet the Healthy Homes Standards and they complain to their landlord and then the landlord just decides the tenant is too hard work, and so they just utilise the provision of the 90-day, no-cause termination clause? Is that tenant necessarily going to take that landlord to Tenancy Tribunal because they deem that to be retaliatory? Well, actually, if I think about my Pacific community, the vast majority would not, and that puts them at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EI think the other thing that that side of the House failed to recognise is the impact that insecure housing\u2014and the potential that this bill will lead to that\u2014has on social stability overall. When you do not have secure housing, then you are more likely to have precarious employment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EWhen you do not have secure housing, then you are more likely to have insecure, unstable education. I thought that side of the House cared about kids showing up to school, but it seems they don\u2019t. When you don\u2019t have secure housing, then that has an impact on the stability of the family and the lifestyle and everything that goes around that. So we have fundamentally made very clear, as have the submitters, that we can\u2019t support the bill, in particular because of this particular provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EThere were some things we could agree on with some of the submitters who actually supported this bill. One of those things was the need for the Tenancy Tribunal to be bolstered and supported to work faster, to be able to work more effectively and at pace to the benefit of both the landlord and the tenant. That is currently not the case. In many ways, I wonder whether that has led to this particular provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EIf the Tenancy Tribunal was resourced effectively and was able to be responsive and work at pace, then would we be here? I\u2019m not entirely sure that we would, and so I think that the Government, whilst they\u2019re in office\u2014which, hopefully, isn\u2019t for too much longer\u2014need to look at that and take that seriously as an area that could actually benefit both landlords and tenants.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EI want to go back to the fact that this bill is supposed to lead towards a greater supply of rental housing, and I\u2019m just going to reiterate and make sure it\u2019s on record that this bill will not lead to that, nor will any of the other actions that the Government are taking. We\u2019re not going to end up with more housing when the Government makes the decision to pause the build of K\u0101inga Ora housing. We\u2019re not going to end up with more housing when we\u2019ve lost 10,000 jobs in the building and construction industry, given that infrastructure and building projects has been cancelled and we\u2019ve got a whole lot of New Zealanders that we invested in and we trained up to be tradies that are travelling over to Australia to use their skills now because this Government have not created the environment in which they can work here. We are not going to end up with more housing when the Government decides to cut $1.5 billion from K\u0101inga Ora but puts $2.9 billion into tax breaks for landlords.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EPrimarily, of course we can\u2019t support this bill. The bigger picture and the bigger issue is we have major concerns about this Government\u2019s policy agenda and programme when it comes to housing and ensuring that New Zealanders are housed, and their track record to date is absolutely abysmal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022023a58eaef164ec6bf3e1fda3abab2c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022023a58eaef164ec6bf3e1fda3abab2c8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for the awareness of the House around the point of order raised by the Hon Mark Patterson, if I can bring members\u2019 attention to Speakers\u2019 ruling 55/4 and 55/5. I\u2019ll be listening carefully, but if there are other concerns that are raised in that nature, I would ask members to reflect on those two Speakers\u2019 rulings before taking a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec7f3f4262d84ec6a7ba7047587e1de4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec7f3f4262d84ec6a7ba7047587e1de4\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for that ruling. We just have to ask ourselves why they are throwing the dirt over this side of the House, given their track record. What was their track record? Let me remind you\u2014let\u00A0me remind you\u2014that their track record was $180 rent increases across the country during the last\u00A0term of the Labour Government; $180 rent increases, per week. That\u2019s how much rents went up. How much did interest rates go up? I think they went from somewhere like 2.5\u00A0percent to about 7 percent, and I think they kept going up. The official cash rate went up about 12\u00A0times\u2014bang, bang, bang\u2014and they have the temerity to turn up and lecture us about them supposedly being the champion of tenants, when tenants had to endure some of the steepest\u2014steepest\u2014rent increases in the history of this country, under their tenure; interest rates and the impact that that had on homeowners as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard today that they\u2019ve tried to say there is a fallacy that the National Party and ACT and New Zealand First are trying to perpetuate that we\u2019re a country of mum and dad\u00A0landlords\u2014you know, that\u2019s a made up National Party kind of marketing strategy, I think someone said. Well, guess what? We are a country of mum and dad landlords. And how do we know that? The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, a Government department, during their tenure, came out with the data, only a couple of years ago, that said 80 percent of landlords own just one property\u201480\u00A0percent of landlords own just one property in New Zealand. We are a country of mum and dad landlords, and don\u2019t we want to keep mum and dad landlords? Aren\u2019t they the best landlords? And don\u2019t they\u00A0want to keep their tenants\u2014don\u2019t they want to keep their tenants?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003EThis is about encouraging the mum and dad landlords, the nanas and pops, to stay in the market. Don\u2019t keep your money in the bank, don\u2019t put your money in the sharemarket, don\u2019t put your money in a commercial property syndication; put it into residential housing and support New Zealanders getting into housing. That\u2019s what we want to do. We also want tenants to have the opportunity to turn up to an interview and get that property, and that will only happen, in many cases, if the landlords have the comfort that they can have that tenant in and know that a good tenant will be rewarded but a bad tenant\u2014a bad, bad, bad tenant\u2014will have to go through a long-lived policy that was under the Labour Government previously, under successive Labour Governments, with the 90-day no-cause termination fee. This is not something we\u2019re inventing; we\u2019re bringing it back\u2014these guys were defending it only two or three years ago.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003EThis is about us shoring up the property market, and, man, have we got a track record in this already\u2014brightline test: reducing the brightline test from 10 years to two. Haven\u2019t we got the mortgage interest deductibility\u2014haven\u2019t we returned that? That goes back to 100 percent in the financial year 2025-26. Fast-tracking: how many houses are we building in the fast-tracking schedule? Fifty-five thousand, was it? Fifty-five thousand on the schedule. Interest rates falling, and what will happen on 27 November\u2014what will happen on 27 November? We don\u2019t know; we don\u2019t know, but we know it\u2019s heading in the right direction\u2014we know it\u2019s heading in the right direction\u2014and the introduction of pet bonds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003EThis is a great day for renters. This is a Government that is pro-tenant, pro-renters. This is a Government that is giving renters, who might not have had a chance because their landlords were a bit scared to take them on, the chance to get into that first rental property, that second rental property. This is keeping the nanas and pops, the mums and dads in the market. They\u2019re our best landlords, and this will attract others to put their capital into the residential property scene instead of in the bank, instead of in property syndications, and instead of the sharemarket. This is a great day\u2014this is a great day\u2014for the property sector, this is a great day for the tenant, this is a great day for small business, and this is a great day for this Government. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u00228aacd65113cf4cf48270f425926a88ef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228aacd65113cf4cf48270f425926a88ef\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Housing security is under threat when National is in Government. New Zealand\u2019s 1.7 million renters are the losers out of this bill; mega landlords are the winners. If that member Cameron Brewer was to be believed, then National\u2019s economic plan depends on property speculation alone. The only plan that we\u2019ve heard in this debate for the housing market is to heat it right\u00A0on up so that landlords can make their gains on property. There is no plan for extra houses to be built, no additional homes for the families who need them\u2014just pump those prices higher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EChris Bishop also has been claiming in this debate that no-cause evictions were a pro-tenant move, but we all remember him being called out on that in the reporting, which found that when he said that front-line workers were calling for this when they were working with homeless communities, that wasn\u2019t actually true and those claims hadn\u2019t been made by people. This was, in fact, an ideological stunt from the National Party to message straight to the landlords who support them that they are on their side, and under them, tenants will get a harder, rougher ride.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EThis bill brings in changes that bring back 90-day no-cause evictions. We all know that it will be harder for tenants to request that fix-up to the shower. It will be harder for the tenants who are parents to make sure that the kids have repairs to their windows and important things like insulation for their roofs. And it will be harder for those people who are locked into cycles of intergenerational renting now. This Government\u2019s policies will not help those families. It will not help the most vulnerable people in New Zealand who now will never ever realise the dream of homeownership that all Kiwis should be entitled to. This bill is a shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EThis change means that renters can be evicted now and not even know why. They will never be told by their landlords what has gone wrong in those 90-day periods. They will never be able to dispute it. They will never be able to claim back the extra costs that it costs to move. They will never be able to claim back for the time it takes to find another home. They will never be able to not bear the costs of trying to find their children a new school and new sports arrangements for Saturday mornings\u2014for the loss that it costs to families who relocate from a community they have invested in. This not only costs renters but it costs the entire community, because it means that we have another generation of people who face a level of precariousness that this country should never accept.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EIn communities like the one I represent in Manurewa, transience is the game. We have entire neighbourhoods of people who have not lived there for more than six months. That feels hard. It feels hard to walk around streets where people don\u2019t know each other, where they don\u2019t have a connection to the place or to each other, where relatives live far away from them, and where their support networks are not there and the support services that are in those communities are stretched to breaking point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the effect that this will have on tenants in the long term, because we know that reporting has unpicked the claims that the Government has made about flexibility in the market and that, in fact, this will have a chilling effect on tenants who want to get things fixed. There are already wet, unsafe homes for families, and 12,000 building and construction jobs since election day have gone. If you were trying to get something fixed up in this market, you certainly won\u2019t be able to now, even if you\u2019re a tenant with a landlord who wants to help you get it fixed. Because it is up to them if they want to help you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EWhen the Minister Tama Potaka introduced this bill, he talked about m\u014Dkai. As Mariameno Kapa-Kingi said, the meaning of \u201Cm\u014Dkai\u201D is not just \u201Cpet\u201D. The best translation for it is \u201Cserf\u201D\u2014someone indentured who lives on their lord\u2019s land. Is this the kind of future that we are creating for renters in this country, where they are dependent on someone so high above them who will always own the land and always own the homes, and they will never be able to enjoy not only the wealth but the security that comes with owning your own home?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EWe are telling parents that they are going to be locked out of homeownership and will never ever be able to have the kind of security that we wanted for them a generation ago. I say \u201Cwe\u201D because both major parties in this House, until now, have been committed to Kiwis getting into their own homes. We heard from that member who has just resumed his seat that he is for the party of mum and dad landlords. Now, that\u2019s the rhetoric. It\u2019s not about homeownership in this country any more, and it couldn\u2019t be clearer with this bill. National will prioritise the rights of landlords over renters and over ordinary homeowners. I cannot commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022 data-id=\u00226d609b20fb0e4f49bec717df29a295c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d609b20fb0e4f49bec717df29a295c4\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call in this debate and to actually correct some of the fallacies that we\u2019ve been hearing from the other side of the House, because we\u2019ve heard crocodile tears across the board. I understand that it\u2019s hard, when you\u2019ve been in Government and you\u2019ve seen your policies being repealed\u2014you put policies in place that you thought were the right, the best, solution. Clearly, though, all we need to do, despite the most brilliant speech you might hear from the other side of the House, is look at the facts, and the facts quite clearly show us that while the Labour Party was in Government, the average rental increase per week was $170\u00A0over that period\u2014$170. Hard-working Kiwis were having to pay that much extra out of their pay cheque every week to cover the cost increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022\u003EAlongside that, those Opposition members, when in Government, made many changes to the residential tenancy requirements. We just heard from the last speaker, Arena Williams, about wet, damp homes. Well, they brought in the healthy homes legislation, so those issues should have been addressed. Clearly, that hasn\u2019t been effective. We saw the changes around the 90-day notice periods and the fixed tenancy periods, and yet we look at the social housing wait-list and you can see that was an utter failure. That social housing wait-list quadrupled while Labour was in Government. How can anyone on that side say that their residential tenancy policies were a success? They clearly failed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022\u003EI know that can be hard to accept but it would be, I think, a measure of the Opposition if\u00A0someone was to stand up over there and say, \u201CLook, we didn\u2019t quite get it right. We\u2019re not sure if you will have it right, but we\u2019re going to support trying something different, because what we did did not work.\u201D Yet I haven\u2019t heard that from a single member of the Opposition. We\u2019ve heard all sorts of outrageous claims about how terrible this will be and what might go\u00A0wrong, but the reality is, looking at those simple statistics, that we saw thousands more Kiwis in emergency housing, 20,000 extra Kiwis on the social housing wait-list, from 7,000\u00A0to 27,000\u2014a quadrupling over their time in Government. [Interruption] And we\u2019re hearing all this interjection right now. The truth can be hard to accept.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022\u003EWe need to put Kiwis first and that is what this Government is doing with these changes to enable tenants to have an opportunity to get into a property they might not otherwise get if the landlord was not prepared to take a risk. We see landlords now that will come back into the market and will be prepared to put their asset up for rent\u2014an asset that they have\u00A0worked hard to earn their whole life, to finally buy a rental property to try and get a bit of extra investment, and put that back into the market now with these changes. Despite all the rhetoric from the other side, their attempts simply failed. This bill, I am confident, will improve the situation here in New Zealand and I am very much pleased to see it progressing through the House. I think it is a great day for tenants and landlords in New Zealand. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022 data-id=\u002203cfe220e94542b2835995aec857f7d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203cfe220e94542b2835995aec857f7d4\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Toit\u016B te Tiriti. It\u2019s amazing what you hear from the Government members in this Chamber this morning\u2014a Government and a National Party that brought New Zealand to have the worst housing record in New Zealand history, a housing crisis that we still experience today, with the number of houses that they didn\u2019t build. And they\u2019re doing it again. They are taking this country backwards on housing. They haven\u2019t built any houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003EUnder Labour, we saw the largest public-housing build programme that this country has seen since the 1960s. I stand by that record. I stand by that record, because, on their record, not only did they not build houses, they sold off New Zealand State housing stock. They are shameless, and today they stand here wanting to be empathetic to renters. They want to be empathetic to renters. The truth is that all the National Party and this Government cares about is giving landlords a $2.9 billion tax break, looking after their mates, and looking after Philip Morris. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s get real. Let\u2019s look at the housing programme in Auckland. Let\u2019s look at what Minister Potaka has done. I look across to the Government members from Auckland and I look at the Massey programme housing build that\u2019s been put on hold. Why is that not being built any more? I look at Takanini. Those numbers of houses are in the dozens, my friend\u2014that has been stopped. That is on your watch\u2014that is on your Government\u2019s watch. What about the houses that aren\u2019t being built any more in Mount Roskill? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f7aa496de234d78818929c9efb978b5\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: What do you mean? They\u2019re all building.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275e686f1163a49c3b611fd4efb7b2e82\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re not all built. Fifty-two projects, 1,727 units, have been put under assessment under this Government\u20141,727 houses in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, Auckland. I raise this because when we talk about this particular piece of legislation today, I just wonder what the heck National\u2019s housing plan is, because all this is going to do is boot tenants out the door without any explanation. It\u2019s going to increase the homelessness that we experience in our largest city in this country, that we\u2019re already struggling with. What we need to do is build more homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003EThe thing is, the member across the way talked about how many houses that fast track will build. Well, zero at the moment. They\u2019ve stopped 1,700 in Auckland alone. How does that make sense\u2014how does that make sense? The reality is, under this Government, they\u2019re just looking after landlords. They actually don\u2019t care about tenants\u2014they don\u2019t care about tenants. You know, it\u2019s very clear, under this Government. The reality is that almost half of\u00A0the people that need these homes\u2014we\u2019re still short 22,000 houses in this country\u2014are\u00A0M\u0101ori; 48 percent of people in need of housing in this country are M\u0101ori, and, under this Government, work has stopped.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003EThey\u2019ve sent all of those thousands of construction workers off to Australia\u2014all of those construction workers\u2014so how are we going to build houses in this country? This particular piece of legislation just makes it worse. It just takes us backwards on getting to where we need, which is building more houses; putting more people in warm, dry homes. This is an absolute shocker\u2014absolute shocker\u2014and I do not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022 data-id=\u00223e187f79d4e4472bb2b212a3827ea203\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223e187f79d4e4472bb2b212a3827ea203\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thanks, Mr Speaker. Look, it is a pleasure, actually, to stand in support of the second reading of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill. There\u2019s a couple of reasons in particular why it\u2019s a pleasure for me today, even though I don\u2019t have the pleasure of having been on the Social Services and Community Committee, which listened to the submissions on this bill. The reason is this. I\u2019m not going to talk about pets. We\u2019ve heard about that a lot, and I\u2019m one of the people that don\u2019t have a pet and don\u2019t really\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1e5841bd37f49089c81dac28dff023e\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Aw! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022681d4dc3d5fa43259da20e87cca069f1\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we won\u2019t get into that. What I am going to talk about is this. I\u2019m going to talk about what Labour and the Opposition members are saying is the reason\u00A0why they don\u2019t support this bill\u2014despite the really good points that this bill is raising\u2014which is because of the 90-day, no-clause notice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003ENow, I want to ask the House: what\u2019s wrong with having a balance\u2014what\u2019s wrong with finding the balance between rights of the tenant and rights of the landlord? Do you know what? Absolutely, we need to make sure that we get the power balance right, because there can be an imbalance\u2014I agree 100 percent. But, if we think about 90 days\u2019 notice, let\u2019s just say that I am a landlord and I say to someone on 7 April, \u201CYou\u2019ve got 90 days\u2019 notice.\u201D From 7 April, we go to May, June, and July\u2014that\u2019s 90 days, from 7\u00A0April to 7 July. We\u2019re not saying, \u201CYou\u2019ve got two weeks.\u201D; we\u2019re not saying, \u201CYou\u2019ve got one day.\u201D There is a balance we\u2019re trying to strike here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s something that the Opposition members have failed to delve deeply into, and this is the sadness of it all: what about what we\u2019re doing with respect to family violence? We\u2019re removing the barriers to leaving unsafe situations by confirming that a tenant can leave a tenancy if their child or their dependant is in danger of domestic violence. That hasn\u2019t been focused on, and it\u2019s a shame that the Opposition has not focused on that, because people that are victims of family violence are actually the most vulnerable people. We commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e186afb6403c40a6981522a8496cb36c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e186afb6403c40a6981522a8496cb36c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the amendments recommended by the Social Services and Community Committee, by majority, be agreed\u00A0to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022825aa7e43b364e00ba2c41b1ce586ce4\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e9b31ed379ee417b846c02d0b9f7760a\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000190\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c267b8d889bb43a183c95d2863cc2b72\u0022\u003EContracts of Insurance Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c267b8d889bb43a183c95d2863cc2b72\u0022\u003EContracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002208e371ca84db4575a1a5ef4a55b71e5a\u0022\u003EThird Readings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac435d9b96f74e37b0933a6cbe988331\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac435d9b96f74e37b0933a6cbe988331\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E I present a legislative statement on the Contracts of Insurance Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce5289c6550741c4af6ee54373a3f085\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e652f87973f450cb5ffcef15f4e8c05\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW BAYLY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Contracts of Insurance Bill and the Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003EI am pleased to stand before the House today for the third reading of the Contracts of Insurance Bill. It has been a long time in the making and it is an exciting day. Six years of waiting has finally come to fruition, and it\u2019s great to be standing here to be able to deliver this outcome for the industry and for policyholders across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003EThis bill, once passed, will mark a turning point for New Zealand\u2019s insurance landscape, modernising and bringing clarity and fairness to a sector that touches the lives of nearly every New Zealander. Today, we present a bill that addresses longstanding concerns with our insurance law. Our current insurance legislation has laws that root back over a century and are spread across six different Acts. This bill creates a modern, unified framework designed for today\u2019s consumers, businesses, and insurers. In doing so, we are creating an insurance sector that can operate with confidence, transparency, and accountability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003EI want to first of all thank the Finance and Expenditure Committee for their diligent work\u00A0on this bill. I want to especially congratulate and thank the chair, Stuart Smith, and members of the committee, who have refined and improved the bill. Thank you also to the many people who submitted at the select committee stage. This includes consumer advocates, industry representatives, and legal experts, whose insights have been invaluable in shaping this legislation. The committee\u2019s recommendations have strengthened the bill considerably, addressing key concerns such as the use of genetic testing information and updating certain technical provisions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003EOne of the key or most significant changes the bill makes relates to disclosure of duties. Under existing law, consumers must disclose any information that might influence a \u201Cprudent insurer\u201D, an ill-defined standard that has led to unintended and often harsh outcomes. The bill now introduces a new standard requiring consumers simply to take reasonable care not to misrepresent information. This is a more balanced requirement that respects the rights of policyholders, while allowing insurers to make informed underwriting decisions. For businesses, who face different and more complex insurance needs, the bill introduces a fair presentation of risk standard, aligning with best practices internationally and providing a more structured approach for commercial insurance policies. These changes aim to reduce the likelihood of claims being denied due to misunderstandings or unintentional non-disclosure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003EInsurers will also now have to set proportionate remedies to respond to any breaches of disclosure obligations, depending on the circumstances. If a policyholder makes a minor or honest mistake, insurers can no longer void the contract, but must respond in a way that fairly represents the nature of the error. This creates a fairer environment for consumers while ensuring that insurers can better manage risks appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003EAnother noteworthy addition to the bill is the changes to account for genetic testing. Following select committee submissions, the bill has been updated to safeguard Kiwis\u2019 access to life and health insurance if they\u2019ve taken out a genetic test. It should be noted that\u00A0genetic testing is a highly valuable emerging technology that can unlock significant health and productivity benefits. In many cases, we may wish to encourage Kiwis to take genetic tests to allow them to benefit from early disease detection, more precise diagnoses, and targeted treatments. However, there are overseas examples of insurers limiting cover or increasing the cost of premiums due to genetic testing results. While we do not have evidence that this is routinely happening in New Zealand, the bill now includes provisions which mean that the Government can, if needed in the future, regulate the use of genetic testing results by insurers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003EBy adopting this flexible regulatory approach, we are not locking ourselves into rigid legislation that may become outdated as science advances. This approach allows us to keep pace with the rapid developments in genetics and to adapt our protections, as needed. Canada and Australia have adopted similar approaches, and these changes bring New Zealand more closely in line with international best practice. I want to thank those who brought this issue to the committee. It was a matter that we had to deal with during the process, and I think it\u2019s a great outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003EAnother important component of this bill is that for the first time, insurance policies must be settled within a reasonable time. Insurance exists to protect people when they need it most, and ensuring timely payments is central to that purpose. The bill does not impose a rigid time frame, recognising what is reasonable varies in the size and complexity of the claim. This flexibility is essential, particularly during times of major crises, when large volumes of claims may strain resources. Instead, the bill relies on the principles of fairness and accountability. I\u2019d say to many people who might be listening that the courts have the ability to decide what is fair in the circumstances. Like other changes, this move brings New Zealand in line with our international partners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003ETransparency is a guiding principle of this bill. Insurance policies are often technical and difficult for consumers to navigate. Unlike many jurisdictions, New Zealand has not had specified legal requirements about the presentation of policy by insurance companies, but this bill amends that. Insurers will now be required to write and present contracts in plain terms. This is about empowering consumers, providing them with the tools to understand, compare, and select policies that best meet their needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003ECreating a fair and stable insurance market means balancing consumer protections with the practical needs of insurers. While the bill includes strong consumer protections, it also acknowledges the importance of stability for insurers. For example, broad exclusions for insurance contracts under the Fair Trading Act\u2019s unfair contract terms regime remain in place. This decision is about protecting the ability of insurers to price their risks accurately, avoiding the potential for premium increases that could limit access to coverage for consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the Contracts of Insurance Bill represents a landmark moment for New Zealand\u2019s insurance law. It reflects six long years of consultation, numerous reviews, and the input of numerous stakeholders. This bill is a testament to this Government\u2019s commitment to modernise our laws and create a fair, transparent, and robust insurance market. I look forward to seeing the positive impact this bill will have on everyone, particularly New Zealand, as they go and get new policies. I am proud to commend the Contracts of Insurance Bill to the House for its final reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u00225b525a89d1bc42acb576aad610973c59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b525a89d1bc42acb576aad610973c59\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u002275486f88956a400b9548131f6f271926\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275486f88956a400b9548131f6f271926\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to take my final call in the debate and the work of Parliament on the Contracts of Insurance Bill, or the two bills that it has now been split into. I want to begin my contribution by acknowledging the work of this Minister and also the previous Labour Ministers who have worked for a long time on a very complex piece of law that, as the Minister says, stretches back many, many decades in New Zealand\u2019s legal history, and this is the first time that it will be consolidated in this way. For that, we can all celebrate because Parliament should be interested in the clarification of this law so that it is clear and also consistent for the consumers who rely on Parliament to set the tone in a law governed, generally, by contracts between contracting parties with very different amounts of power in the negotiation as to what the contractual terms will be. That is a good thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EWhat we cannot accept here are two changes, in particular\u2014which would remove key advances for consumers\u2014from the time when this was presented in more general terms to Cabinet, to now, when the Finance and Expenditure Committee has given it a thorough going over and, essentially, has poked holes in a net of protections which were designed to help the little guy in the situation where different groups of insurance consumers around New Zealand were getting different deals from their insurers about the same kinds of issues, whether that\u2019s their home insurance, their car insurance, or their life insurance. It\u2019s right to put on record that those two things\u2014which we cannot accept\u2014really come down to timing and delay, and the provisions around when insurers are required to pay out to consumers in their arrangements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EThose will be a small group of people and not very often. Not every year will New Zealand have the kinds of big disaster events which create huge delay for consumers. There won\u2019t be thousands and thousands of people affected by that in those events, but there will be some people who are affected very, very deeply, and this is a change which has been made since Cabinet considered it which will significantly impact their rights to be able to receive payouts for their insurance and to have their claims advanced in a timely way. It will, essentially, go back to the position that it was in prior to when this legislation was being drafted, where it was all down to the insurers and it\u2019s down to the goodwill of those providers to pay out quickly, and we know that in New Zealand\u2019s small market, that does not happen all the time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EThe second issue is the change\u2014and the Minister quite rightly points out that a positive change overall is that, now, this law consolidates the market practice currently. What insurers do now, generally, in the New Zealand market is that they won\u2019t void an entire claim because of a mistake, and that\u2019s a great position for the law to be in. It\u2019s really important that we acknowledge that insurance contracts are contracts of the utmost good faith and that has always required insurers to approach things with fair-mindedness, and that will often mean that for someone who has made a mistake without knowledge and intent of the nature of the mistake that they\u2019re making, their entire claim won\u2019t be voided and, therefore, not paid out. That\u2019s a really important point of established law already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EWhat this legislation had the opportunity to do was to make it very clear that where someone like me, a policyholder, had made a disclosure that was deliberately fraudulent and I had made a claim where I knew that I was going to receive a benefit\u2014in this case, a contract for insurance that I wasn\u2019t entitled to\u2014and that that would result in me getting payouts that I certainly wasn\u2019t entitled to but I knew that it would result in that, then that was the thing that insurers would be able to rely on and not pay out for. That\u2019s a really clear standard. Many of our laws rely on that fraudulent standard, and that deceit with a document or a statement that you have made is a really important standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003ENow we\u2019ve gone back to what is quite unclear in the law. It\u2019s the dishonesty standard, and whose dishonesty\u2014objective or subjective dishonesty. This was all part of a pretty extensive committee stage where we didn\u2019t advance what was intended here by Parliament. It is a shame because it leaves what is otherwise a really useful piece of law to consolidate the position in New Zealand, which is now back at square one, where a lot of the power is in the insurer\u2019s hands to litigate these issues and we\u2019re back to a position where the consumer doesn\u2019t have the protection that they could have and should have had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EAt the risk of also overstressing the importance of the genetic testing changes here\u2014because this is a real once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to consolidate insurance law generally\u2014genetic testing is the issue now, but we do not know how it will develop over time, and we do not know whether we will need extra legislation to deal with problems that arise in 10 or 20 years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EI would like to put on record Labour\u2019s very, very tentative support at the committee stage for the regulations, which were not permissive. They required the Minister to think very carefully and use a set of criteria if he were to introduce regulations which would permit the use of genetic-testing information because we agree that this is an important emerging technology. We want New Zealanders to be able to use it, and we do not want them to be discouraged because their insurers would have access to that information and might deny them cover. It\u2019s also thinking about the rights of vulnerable patients in this area. It\u2019s communities of patients who will be affected by this; not just individuals. There are certain diseases and certain genetic conditions which will have the effect of people not being able to get insurance at all in some jurisdictions, and for that we\u2019d want to be very careful about the way that information was used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003ESince the committee\u2019s deliberations, Australia has announced its intention to, effectively, ban the use of genetic testing by insurers and consider that after a five-year period. We think that\u2019s materially irrelevant to the decision of the Minister here. I asked him at the committee stage whether he would consider taking out what the committee had recommended because of that, and he said no. I want to make it clear that when he uses his power\u2014which he is required to under this legislation\u2014to enact the regulations within two years and Cabinet needs to consider it again, a permissive approach will be roundly resisted by the sector of patients who are particularly interested in this and by the Labour Party members. It will be a headache for the Minister of Health if there is a permissive approach taken. That was certainly not the intent of the select committee at the time, and it was not the intent of Labour when it supported those regulation-making powers at the committee stage. However, we do agree that it\u2019s really important to have something in our law that deals with this important issue, and it wouldn\u2019t be good for New Zealand to have no protections whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, this is a useful way to advance New Zealand\u2019s law and consolidate it here in legislation, but it is a missed opportunity to protect the consumers that it was all framed around when Labour began work on this and as has been framed in the Minister\u2019s comments publicly and in the media. Because he has continuously said to this House and to the media that the legislation is about empowering consumers, the law should be read in that way, and it should be read as a consolidation of the consumer rights that now make up the market practice in insurance in New Zealand. Consumers should be able to hear the Minister\u2019s comments when he says that this is about protecting their interests and have some confidence that this legislation advances that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003EWe do not support it, ultimately. We will not be voting for it, because we think it\u2019s a missed opportunity to have fleshed out and developed those protections for consumers that New Zealanders really need, especially in our small insurance market. We think the process which this legislation has gone through has fallen short and it has not meant that consumers have had the opportunity to be able to advocate for the changes that they need in the face of reorganised submissions from the insurance industry, and for that reason, we\u2019ll be voting against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022c09d5ff3fac84f318c3d0cd5e41887be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c09d5ff3fac84f318c3d0cd5e41887be\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak on what is now two bills, the Contracts of Insurance Bill as well as the Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill. Like the previous speaker Arena Williams, the Green Party would have supported this legislation should our amendments have been accepted by the Minister. Unfortunately, our amendments were not accepted by the Minister, and so we will not be supporting this legislation. However, I will speak on some of that later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EIn saying that, this is legislation that is a long time coming. It has been in the works by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) and by various interested groups for a number of years, and it was introduced by the previous Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, who also took part in a lot of the work that was done during the committee stages as well. It is incredibly comprehensive legislation and it does modernise areas in terms of insurance contracts in Aotearoa New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EThere are definitely elements of this legislation that the Green Party believes are going to be good for consumers and for the people of Aotearoa New Zealand, one of which is having a clear separation between what is considered a consumer contract and a non-consumer contract. I think that level of clarity and, particularly, some of the structure and the boundaries and the scope that is being placed within that will, hopefully, be able to give reassurances to personal contracts that people tend to have, whether it is a contract for health insurance, life insurance, contents insurance, etc., etc. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EOther than that, there are also other things that are considered to be an improvement, and one of the areas that I wanted to mention is around proportional remedies, which is outlined in Schedule 2, at clause 5. I think in this particular case, not having a contract being declared void should there be an error or should there be something that was not declared previously would also mean that it provides more reassurance, and it\u2019s going to be better for the consumers in terms of that proportionality. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EHowever, there are a number of areas that the Green Party feels are lacking in this particular bill, and one of them is laid out in clause 14 under Part 2. This is something that we discussed quite a bit during the committee stage, but then could not come to an agreement on it, and I think both the Green Party as well as the Labour Party have tabled amendments around the discussion of \u201Cfraudulently\u201D versus \u201Cdishonestly\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EIn our opinion, having the previous, original draft of this bill specifying \u201Cfraudulently\u201D and then it being, in some ways, watered down to \u201Cdishonestly\u201D does not provide the level of confidence from a consumer contract perspective that would allow people to be able to make those kinds of claims and not having insurance companies find ways to wriggle out of certain contractual agreements. As we can see, there is definitely a level of power imbalance between, particularly, consumer-based insurance contracts and also insurance companies, and to give you an example of that, one of the things that just occurred this last weekend was the fact that one of the tourists who was touring Aotearoa New Zealand, particularly in the Lakes District, just outside of Queenstown, had their vehicle washed away by a car and had some additional disputes with the particular rental company.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EI think in those kinds of cases, it\u2019s really easy, particularly if you are a tourist\u2014and particularly if you are a tourist whose English is not your first language\u2014to be coerced or to be threatened in a way by a particular insurance company or by a particular company on the basis of your insurance contract. I think that in those sorts of cases, having that extra level of consumer protection is really, really important, and I think that for here, having that wording being retained as \u201Cfraudulently\u201D instead of \u201Cdishonestly\u201D would really give the consumer just a little bit more reassurance. Unfortunately, this was one of the bottom lines for the Green Party to support this legislation, but our amendment was not supported. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EA second part of this is around the genetic testing, which has been mentioned before. This is a serious concern for the Green Party as well, particularly when it comes to genetic testing and the dangers that this imposes to consumers. We are kind of disappointed with the fact that the select committee sort of made some recommendations, but didn\u2019t go to the extent that we would have liked to see it go. There was strong evidence from the submissions that we have seen that support such a prohibition or failing to implement this, in favour of having the regulation-making power and the responsibility that is being placed both in terms of the consumer but also in terms of the insurance companies when it comes to elements of genetic testing and the mandate to declare any sort of predisposed or pre-existing conditions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to this particular legislation\u2014and I mentioned this before in terms of this scenario\u2014something else that we thought was actually quite important is laid out in the second bill, the Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill, particularly around clause 183, which is inserting a new Subpart 6B in Part 6 of the Financial Markets Conduct Act. This is around the fact that there is now a duty on insurance companies to be able to assist policyholders to understand insurance contracts. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EHowever, one of the things I mentioned previously in the scenario with the tourists and the issues around some of the rental vehicle concerns is the fact that, although we do see that some of the policies can be simplified and be clear in terms of the language, the way that it is explained and the scenario that, potentially, it relates to still has some gaps in it, because, again, it is easier for an insurance company, or for anyone who is more at the corporate level, to make certain assumptions or use certain legalistic phrases to the contract holder or to the policyholder to say, \u201CWell, that was X.\u201D or \u201CThat was Y.\u201D, for example\u2014you know, \u201CThat was reckless. You were travelling somewhere that you shouldn\u2019t be travelling.\u201D Again, it is to do with when we are implementing this and operationalising it, it\u2019s a certain level, and we will actually be really interested to see how that is going to be teased out and implemented properly, with the benefits to the consumers and with the reassurance that it will place on the consumers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of other things that I would like to touch on. One of the things that also has been sort of addressed in this particular legislation is around the brokers, and this is under Subpart 2 in Part 4 of the Contracts of Insurance Bill. We think that the balance when it comes to addressing the duties of the broker hasn\u2019t really been balanced correctly, because in some ways there is still a lot of responsibility and accountability being placed on insurance companies. However, when we\u2019re looking at brokers and the intermediaries, what was originally in the draft version and the MBIE report was not adopted in the latest version of the bill, and particularly, when it comes to where there are some precautions and there is some scope being placed around notification of insurance if the premium is not paid. However, we still don\u2019t see that there\u2019s the right balance and the right accountability being placed on the duties of a broker in the context of when they fail to make that premium payment when it is due and they fail to notify an insurance of the premium payment. So I think that is something that could have been further enhanced in this particular bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EFinally, I still want to address the one of the core issues that we hear from the submitters around the changes to the Marine Insurance Act 1908. Understandably, we want to see this consolidation of the various insurance legislation, but then we have heard from submitters, particularly around the fact that, yes, having some changes to the warranty of seaworthiness when it comes to some of the repeal of the Marine Insurance Act is OK, but the fundamental change in clause 127 potentially will create further issues, and particularly when some of the marine insurance contract is on internationally standard terms such as the English law institute clauses. That level of clarity wasn\u2019t really being teased out during the committee stages. It is also unfortunate that there are a number of other amendments that were placed during the committee stage that weren\u2019t adopted. So, unfortunately, although some parts of this bill are good, the Green Party will not be supporting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022 data-id=\u002281305a81fd494eddb80cefd93c6b5c0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281305a81fd494eddb80cefd93c6b5c0d\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT to speak in support of the Contracts of Insurance Bill and its related bill, the Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill. This is an exciting day, I think, for New Zealanders interested in insurance and actually involved in the insurance sector. As has already been outlined by some previous speakers, this has been six years in development\u2014six long years in development\u2014and I do want to pay tribute to the current Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs, the Hon Andrew Bayly, and also to Dr Duncan Webb, who also has played a role in getting this to us today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EThis legislation is about modernising and making more simple the insurance settings in New Zealand and making sure we are in line with countries around the world that we do compare ourselves with: the UK, Canada, and Australia. It is about making policyholders understand in simpler language what their responsibilities are and also what the responsibilities of insurers are. Insurance is very important in our society, and whether that\u2019s home and contents insurance, life insurance\u2014all kinds of insurance\u2014we want to make sure that it is easily understood, well understood, and that we have a set of laws that are modern and fit for purpose and that can actually serve New Zealanders well. So that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing with this legislation, and it\u2019s very exciting to have it at its third reading, and hopefully, it will pass the House and we can have it in place to really be serving the needs of New Zealanders going forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EAs has already been outlined this morning, it does set to put in place some new duties, both on insurers and those companies providing insurance\u2014so the insured and the insurers\u2014and it does also put in place some new provisions, which I\u2019m going to talk about in a minute, which are actually dealing with a new type of technology, or a new issue, that did come up during the select committee process. And so, overall, we think this is very worthwhile legislation to support. As I said, it is going to modernise the settings under which insurance operates in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EAs has already been outlined a little bit, one of the areas I was obviously particularly interested in is around genetic testing. Prior to coming to this place, I actually did work in the healthcare sector and have learnt quite a lot about genetic testing and genomics and the exciting potential it brings. Obviously, as has already been talked about, Subpart 4A in Part 3 of the Contracts of Insurance Bill does deal with the ability of the Minister to make some regulations actually dealing with excluding genetic tests from insurance, and why is that important? Well, I was actually lucky enough to be engaged with the stakeholders that bought these issues to the Finance and Expenditure Committee. Again, it has been an area of interest for me for some time, and I was well engaged with them. I actually encouraged them to put this issue before the select committee because it is a really interesting emerging issue and it is really where science and insurance cross over. So, by putting in this provision, we\u2019ve actually futureproofed New Zealand\u2019s law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EAs Arena Williams, the speaker from Labour, has said, Australia had been going through a debate about what they would do on this, and actually, we are in advance: if we pass this law shortly, we will actually have some legislation in place that can do what they have only announced they\u2019re going to do. Again, I think the way the select committee dealt with this issue\u2014and I know the Minister was very willing to engage on it. The solution we\u2019ve come up with, I think, is the right way, because it\u2019s going to allow some flexibility to deal with this issue, which is very important. I know that the stakeholders interested in genetic testing and genomics are going to be engaging again with the Minister and the Government on this issue once this legislation passes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to leave my contribution there, and just say that this is important for the insurance sector, whether that\u2019s those providing insurance or seeking insurance. This is very worthy legislation which modernises our approach, so we commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u0022cfdfe2d9c69c47fea9133aac3fadfaac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cfdfe2d9c69c47fea9133aac3fadfaac\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker, could I note the ACT members are both wearing their badges. I\u2019ll forgive the fact that we\u2019re in a special sitting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227524e0897e834ecf9adef873c715f2b5\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: I apologise, Mr Speaker. I rushed down from my office and forgot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226537299e25d643b487c53494e167de4a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t want to interrupt your sterling words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d6b1cb96234e40859e9ded73c1202c16\u0022 data-id=\u0022f331cb264ce446f7bd83b89c7f75725e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d6b1cb96234e40859e9ded73c1202c16\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f331cb264ce446f7bd83b89c7f75725e\u0022\u003ETANYA UNKOVICH (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First in support of the Contracts of Insurance Bill and Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill. One of the most important things in any relationship, particularly a business relationship, is trust. What I feel that this legislation will do is change the perception that is out there about insurance companies. In recent conversations with a colleague in the insurance industry, I asked her the question of what is that perception like. Is it getting better? Do people still have this \u201CI hate insurance companies\u201D kind of feeling? And she said, \u201CWell, it depends on their experience with an insurance company. If it hasn\u2019t been good, then it is not a good feeling. They still do not have the trust. If it has been that people have had a great experience or a good experience with insurance companies, then they do not have that negative belief about them.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d6b1cb96234e40859e9ded73c1202c16\u0022\u003EI\u2019m very fortunate to have had good experiences with insurance companies, but it doesn\u2019t stop me from being really vigilant when my bills come in. I make sure that I read through them. That is one of the reasons\u2014I think I\u2019ve already mentioned\u2014that I won\u2019t do a monthly payment. I\u2019ll do it once a year so that it makes me stop and take a good look at what I\u2019m signing up for. Unfortunately, a lot of people do not do that, particularly seniors. I have often mentioned my father ringing me to say, \u201CHave you got a minute? Can you do me a favour?\u201D I always knew that it was something about reading the fine print.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d6b1cb96234e40859e9ded73c1202c16\u0022\u003EI feel that what this legislation will do is it will create transparency. It does outline so many things in the legislation in much more clarity. For example, there is clarity about what is a consumer and what is a non-consumer contract. It gives more clarity on disclosure. It gives more clarity on remedies. It specifically outlines\u2014it has a range\u2014if it\u2019s something that is deliberate versus something that is intentional. You get slapped on the wrist, depending on what it is that you fall under in that scheme. What I\u2019m really thrilled to see is that there is going to be a shift. It may take time, but at least we are making steps. I\u2019m sure that, in time, as we go further down the road, there will be things that we will see that need to be changed, but it does take time, it does take testing, especially with consumers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d6b1cb96234e40859e9ded73c1202c16\u0022\u003EOn that note, I will commend this legislation to the House. Part of me is kind of going, \u201COh, it\u2019s not going to appear on my weekly reading list.\u201D It seems to have been on my list for many weeks. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u0022a7f96f9cffc34099bb02cc9bd6588293\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a7f96f9cffc34099bb02cc9bd6588293\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a five-minute, split call. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022 data-id=\u0022458457c137104e59b5563a8f2dbc1973\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022458457c137104e59b5563a8f2dbc1973\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. This is a brief contribution, so I want to start with this: necessity does not beget accessibility, and I think that is certainly true in this case. Insurance is a privilege. It\u2019s such an expensive exercise. I was just listening to my colleague referring to either monthly payments or yearly payments. That scenario is an exception in what I know and understand in terms of insurance, whether it\u2019s housing insurance, whether it\u2019s contents and all of those things. Particularly for wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori, it is not a common thing, unfortunately, though it is a necessary thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EWe note in the discussion the plain language and the importance of having plain language. I\u2019m assuming that that means plain English language. I\u2019m assuming that that is the case, which is an interesting point, isn\u2019t it? If modernisation is true, then I would expect that in the modernisation concept, te reo M\u0101ori is another language that needs to be understood and embedded in the way in which we think about language. When I hear \u201Cplain language\u201D, I\u2019m hoping they\u2019re suggesting te reo M\u0101ori is the plain language, but it is not. Then it\u2019s another expression of the divide\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c201992e964ba8911589eff393d995\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206786af71fa84ad2af6f23d1da469e9c\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which is about reo, which\u2014and I can hear somebody moaning; maybe they need to exit the House. But, if you don\u2019t know, then you simply don\u2019t, and therefore you remain ignorant to what I\u2019m expressing. But I\u2019m happy to have the conversation outside this room. I want to make the point that, in this regard, if modernisation is true\u2014and the k\u014Dhanga reo and the kura kaupapa mokopuna that are coming through would say to you, if you were to understand te reo M\u0101ori, that modernisation in te reo M\u0101ori is a real thing. Let\u2019s really be real about modernisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EThis legislation promotes equality between\u2014well, alignment maybe\u2014insurance contracts and other contracts. We\u2019re yet to see whether that is true, because, again, this legislation is relative. It\u2019s relative to the whole\u2014in fact, the previous speech that I took was about residential tax and all of those things. That was a big bill. You know, it\u2019s not transformative, not in this instance. It doesn\u2019t go far enough, really. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EDo we feel better off because of this legislation? Not necessarily\u2014not necessarily\u2014so we don\u2019t support it, despite the ideas or the ideology the opposite side of the House carries. It\u2019s simply that they just do not know and understand our reality. N\u014D reira i runga i t\u0113n\u0101, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te P\u012Bka. [So, on that note, thank you, Mr Speaker.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u00228811974a095449e5ab5b9a8607a40eb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228811974a095449e5ab5b9a8607a40eb8\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m taking a second call on the Contracts of Insurance Bill and the Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill. I want to begin by acknowledging my colleague Lawrence Xu-Nan, who has spoken for us on the first law and, I think, has outlined the nuances with which we\u2019re traversing in this debate. I also want to acknowledge the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, the former Minister who started to work on this legislation last term. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EThis is legislation that I think exemplifies the outcomes and the changes that we see when a new Government comes in and gives the bills that a previous Government has been working on a new coat of paint\u2014an ideological new coat of paint. We can see that in the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f691fa98dca74b398f60cc6c93741378\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Not relevant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6246daca58d4b8693d9bfde23176411\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and we\u2019re seeing it in this one. They may think that it\u2019s not relevant, but, actually, this bill did see changes as we\u2019ve changed Governments, and we think that some of the changes tilt the balance beyond just modernising our insurance laws and protecting consumers, to actually undermining consumer rights. My colleague has already outlined the changes in the language in relation to dishonesty and fraudulency\u2014and I see the member nodding, right? So, like, they do know; they\u2019re just being glib\u2014very much on brand for them. I think that submitters were quite outspoken about the challenges that changing that language creates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EOther members have spoken about how \u201Cdishonesty\u201D is quite a catch-all phrase that seeks to undermine the rest of the language around, for example, taking reasonable care in terms of responsibility for policyholders. This will actually undermine consumers, and I want to put it into context, as well. While there may be many types of insurance that one can access, as we see more extreme weather events, more and more families will be in contact with insurance companies and will have to make claims and will have to navigate really complex situations, and often situations of distress. When people are in distress and they\u2019re having to provide information, I think that is why, for example, this change of language would have better protected people, because it allowed, I guess, a more nuanced way of operating where if somebody provides information that is wrong and it wasn\u2019t done with fraudulent intent but they may have been facing distress, the previous language would have been far better when it comes to supporting consumers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EOther members have talked about the genetic testing provisions and the many advocates who were calling for a prohibitionist lens as opposed to having a regulatory framework for it. I think it\u2019s worth noting that the Albanese Government recently moved to create a total ban on the use of adverse genetic testing results in life insurance. Mr Speaker, I know we try to avoid straight-out reading, but because I am going to quote from a press release, I am just going to read a couple of the lines on the arguments for it. They were really clear that \u201CGenetic testing can be a life-saving step for members of the community. This valuable technology supports medical practitioners to prevent, diagnose, treat, and monitor a range of heritable conditions, cancer predisposition syndromes, and cancers. No Australian should be discouraged from undertaking testing out of fear it may impact their ability to get life insurance.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI think that that sentiment should apply here, and for all the assurances we\u2019ve been getting from, for example, the ACT Party, in a previous contribution, actually, there is no guarantee that a regulatory framework will actually end up tilting on the rights of consumers, because part of having regulatory frameworks is that, ultimately, the Government of the day can easily\u00A0change them around if the entities in charge of supporting those regulatory frameworks are not adequately supported to ensure that that there is adequate consultation. We could end up with pretty perverse consequences, and individuals with resources can then lobby to get the outcomes that they want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI want to note, as well, that when it comes to genetic testing and the changes in Australia, even the companies were in favour of taking a prohibitionist approach. I think that this should serve as a reminder that, actually, we can move to legislate on the side of consumers, and, yes, the companies can follow in line when politicians are brave enough to actually not allow things like genetic testing to, potentially, be used to undermine people who may have a family history of health conditions and who may be wanting to access this technology for lifesaving purposes. My colleague has touched on other nuances in this legislation. With that, I just wanted to say that we won\u2019t be supporting this legislation further. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022 data-id=\u00220b9bb7d700454167ba1b3785eb0c374c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b9bb7d700454167ba1b3785eb0c374c\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E I rise to support the Contracts of Insurance Bill and Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill in this third reading, on what is a very momentous day for our insurance sector across New Zealand, both for the insurers and the consumers. As the Tukituki MP, insurance has been extremely important for many people across our electorate in the wake of Cyclone Gabrielle. I would\u00A0just firstly like to acknowledge the Finance and Expenditure Committee members and our\u00A0chair, Stuart Smith, for helping navigate this important legislation through, and, of course, Minister Bayly for all of his leadership and taking action as a Government to turn\u00A0this\u00A0legislation, which has been talked about and considered for over six years, finally into action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003EOf course, for me as the Tukituki MP, we did see Cyclone Gabrielle cause a lot of devastation and a lot of people were impacted hugely, and insurance became extremely, extremely important. It is really, really important that we have robust, modern insurance laws. We can\u2019t have people waiting unreasonable times for their insurance. A key feature of this legislation is the requirement of insurers to pay any sums due within a reasonable time. That is really a key part of this: when disaster strikes, people are going through so much emotion and stress and they really don\u2019t want to be having to have the extra emotion and extra stress of having to wait for their insurance, because they just want certainty to be able to get on with their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003EI just thought that it was quite important to acknowledge some of those communities that still are going through a very, very tough time in my electorate, and some still are dealing with insurance, and that is Pakowhai, \u014Cmahu, Wai\u014Dhiki, Twyford, Joll Road, Puketapu. We do have another member from our area in the House today, Katie Nimon, and we are still dealing with constituents who have insurance issues. Just the other day, I had a mother in my office who was struggling because they wanted to build back their house but the premium on the insurance was just so high. I was in \u014Cmahu the other day. There were many there that are underinsured. I was in Pakowhai the other day and they\u2019re still waiting to go from a category 2C to a category 1, so many of them there are still facing insurance issues, insurance concerns. This bill is really going to help with creating more fairness, more transparency, which has been touched on a lot within this debate today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003EIt also shifts the responsibility on to the insurer, which is really, really important, because, you know, when disaster strikes, you don\u2019t want to be thinking about, \u201COh, is that insured? Did I cover that? What was involved?\u201D It\u2019s really, really important that there is a lot of clarity within the policies and that people have certainty and that they know exactly what is insured and what isn\u2019t. Of course, it also prevents the denial of insurance. This was a little bit of an issue, and so it is important that we do have these robust laws, which can iron some of this out, and, you know, just ensure that customers aren\u2019t second guessing what their insurance is and what\u2019s covered and what\u2019s not covered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important, as we adapt to climate change and the reality of more of these events happening in New Zealand, that we also need to adapt our insurance laws, and that is why today is very, very important for our insurance sector and for everyone across New Zealand. These changes will also have a really positive impact on our economic landscape in New Zealand, which, of course, is a key focus of our Government, but after seeing so many families struggle and go through insurance issues across Hawke\u2019s Bay, I am really, really proud to commend this legislation to the House today, because I think it is going to make a huge, huge, positive impact for so many New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u002275022bad9ca741e0a024ac40592a871c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275022bad9ca741e0a024ac40592a871c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s good to be able to speak about this legislation today even though the Labour Party will not support it at this third reading. I want to draw the House\u2019s attention, first of all, just to these two documents here\u2014the two bills that now make up this overall legislation, the Contracts of Insurance Bill\u00A0and the Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill. Particular to the Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill, clause 169, it says, \u201CThe following legislation is repealed: (a) the Insurance Intermediaries Act 1994 \u2026 (b) the Insurance Law Reform Act\u00A01977 \u2026 (c) the Insurance Law Reform Act 1985 \u2026 (d) the Life Insurance Act 1908 \u2026 [and] (e) Part 3 of the Law Reform Act 1936.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EOne of the very important jobs that this piece of legislation does is to update, amend, and consolidate a whole heap of previous insurance law, bringing it all into one place. It\u2019s a pretty important project\u2014a project that has been a long time in the making and has taken, most recently, two Ministers of Commerce and Consumer Affairs to bring this to the House: the former Minister, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, under whose supervision the great majority of this legislation was drafted, and then, more recently, the Hon Andrew Bayly, who, following the change of Government, picked up the Hon Dr Duncan Webb\u2019s legislation and amended it somewhat and brought it to the House. It\u2019s very much a project that has gone on across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EI suppose, with that, a person might reasonably expect that the whole House might support this legislation. In fact, Labour did support this legislation at the first reading, but by the time it had gone through the select committee process, we were unable to do that any more as a party\u2014my colleague Arena Williams has gone through some of the detail on that. I, however, just want to talk about a somewhat higher level, and that\u2019s to think about who we legislate for. This is something that my colleague the Hon Damien O\u2019Connor said to me once: \u201CWe legislate for the margins.\u201D We don\u2019t legislate for the easy cases, we don\u2019t legislate for the mainstream, we don\u2019t legislate for the straightforward stuff, we don\u2019t legislate\u2014I would hope\u2014in favour of the powerful. We legislate for people who need assistance. We legislate for people who find the law puzzling, we legislate for the vulnerable, and typically, when we legislate, we try to legislate in favour of the consumer rather than the company, and there\u2019s quite good grounds for doing that. It is because, typically, consumers as individuals have far less power than the organisations they are dealing with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EIn the original version of this legislation, there were a number of clauses in it which ensured that consumers of insurance were protected and were given some valuable protections and some more rights to ensure that they could deal effectively with insurance companies. Unfortunately, the new Minister has walked that back. Now, it\u2019s still pretty good legislation, but the bit where we cannot support it is where he has walked back the provisions that would have supported ordinary consumers\u2014ordinary people who find insurance law hard to follow; ordinary people who are puzzled by contracts; ordinary people who might struggle with reading and writing, might struggle with the day-to-day activities of finance, might be so busy living their lives that they cannot pay attention to the detail. The legislation as originally put forward by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb would have protected these vulnerable consumers. This legislation brought to the House by the new Minister walks that protection back. It\u2019s a real shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EActually, it was a telling point from the previous speaker, Catherine Wedd, who, when she stood up to talk about what this legislation did, said it was a good day for the insurance sector. It took a while for her to clarify that she did intend it to cover consumers as well, but first up in that person\u2019s mind was the insurance sector\u2014interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EI do want to pick up something else that one of our other colleagues\u2014Mariameno Kapa-Kingi\u2014said earlier on. There\u2019s a really interesting phrase she said: \u201Cinsurance is a privilege.\u201D\u2014insurance is a privilege. Actually, it is becoming that way. Of course, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi talked in terms of families, of households, with individuals who can no longer afford insurance. That is a real concern for us. We know that, when vulnerable people are stretched in their budgets and are trying to make ends meet, one of the first things to go is insurance. Then, of course, that becomes a real problem when disaster strikes. We do actually have an issue there and we need to have a serious look at it as a Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another aspect of that which we need to consider seriously as a Parliament\u2014I hope this Government will do it and continue some of the work that has already been done\u2014and that is around looking at ongoing insurance in the face of the climate challenge that is facing us all, the climate challenge that they are walking back from. Nevertheless, we are going to have whole classes of vulnerable people in New Zealand for whom insurance will be a privilege because the places in which they live are vulnerable to climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EWith that, I urge the Government to consider that issue in real depth. It\u2019s something that\u2019s really important. Having completed this piece of work, flawed though it is now\u2014that\u2019s, I suppose, a good start; it\u2019s just a shame we can\u2019t support it wholeheartedly as we would like to. I urge the Government to turn their mind to some of the real challenges that we are going to face with insurance in this country in the very near future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022 data-id=\u002258cc50f587b643a8a6d52c8f77be22e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258cc50f587b643a8a6d52c8f77be22e2\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m very proud to stand to do my final call on the debate for the Contracts of Insurance Bill in this House. This bill\u2014and putting it, you know, long story short\u2014is a bill that is about facilitating the well-functioning insurance markets for both the insurers and the policyholders. This had been commented through the debate before me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003EThis bill is really about enabling consumers and businesses to be more effectively protecting themselves against risks in New Zealand. That\u2019s the whole point of insurance, which is about protecting ourselves against risk. Here I will give a very, very simple but, I hope, effective example for many of our viewers and listeners on TV, which is that, when this bill is passed, consumers who are the policyholders will no longer have to guess what information they will be responsible for providing to the insurers that is relevant to their insurance policies. This is very, very critical, because, at times of risk, or at times of danger, when we need the insurance to be effective, as a policyholder, we won\u2019t have the time or the energy or the concentration to be able to think about the information that we are providing. When this bill is passed, the onus will be now on the insurers to be asking the right questions, to be asking for the information, and it is for the consumers to provide based on the questions that are being asked. This is a very critical mind-set shift that I hope the viewers and listeners will understand. This bill is about minimising the costs and the impacts, also to the insurers, in the insurance market in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003EIt is a very significant reform, for six years of review and consultation through the different Governments, through the different Ministers, and also select committee members, to consolidate the different views, the perspectives, the changes so that the New Zealand insurance contract laws can be more modernised and aligned with the international jurisdictions around the world. This bill is the collective effort across the House, across the different Minsters, and also the many, many pieces of public and professional feedback that had been provided to the select committee. I\u2019d like to thank the various Ministers, particularly Minister Bayly, for seeing this bill through, and also to all the Finance and Expenditure Committee members and particularly all the public feedback. I fully commend this bill to the House and look forward to seeing the positive impact that this bill will bring to New Zealand. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u002266e7eb9918284437b59e80594de6dd53\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266e7eb9918284437b59e80594de6dd53\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: A five-minute, split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022 data-id=\u0022c90a80636a9b4295a903c98eb1702ecc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c90a80636a9b4295a903c98eb1702ecc\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s really nice to be able to have an opportunity to speak on this legislation. This legislation started as a bill that was pulled out of the ballot as a member\u2019s bill by Dr Duncan Webb, and that\u2019s because he had worked on this material for some time and it was a very sophisticated bill. It was then adopted by the current Minister and there have been some changes which the Labour Party is not necessarily that happy about, because the thrust of the bill is to protect the vulnerable consumer, and the changes that the Labour Party are concerned about are ones that erode that principle. That is of concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just take one of those and that\u2019s the issue of delay. Delay is absolutely one of the enemies of the ordinary person, and we\u2019re seeing a lot of this as a theme, actually, out there at the moment. We\u2019ve just been talking about delay as a tactic used by lawyers in regard to the abuse in care claimants, that it can do terrible damage when lawyers get hold of delay, and it can do terrible damage when insurance companies are also in control of when the money gets paid out and they delay. That\u2019s an issue that we need to join the dots on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EThe insurance area is one we\u2019ve long recognised as one where people are vulnerable, and we\u2019ve had a duty of the utmost good faith for a very long time. This legislation consolidates a whole lot of Acts and it makes sure that principles that we\u2019ve already had are built on, and, hopefully, the majority of this bill provides that environment. The only reason that the Labour Party isn\u2019t going to support it today is because it could be better. The original bill was better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EI would like to just briefly talk about the addition of the genetic testing issue here. This is a really big issue, and I think there\u2019s probably more that needs to be considered by this House at some time, on this point. There are philosophers that suggest that the best way to organise our society is to think of ourselves as blind in a situation\u2014we don\u2019t know who we are. We could be anybody in this scenario. We could be the person who has Huntington\u2019s and we were genetically tested for that. We could be the person who is absolutely fine. We\u2019ve got to think in terms of our boots, which boots we\u2019re in, how we could structure insurance if we could be either of those people in the system, or our children could be, or our parents could be, and we\u2019d probably want a blind insurance system. We\u2019d probably want one where in fact you didn\u2019t get punished, you didn\u2019t actually let the insurance companies know what the genetic testing was, and that would spread the cost across our society and community in a way that was fairer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s an issue where I can see there\u2019s an intent to make sure that as things happen in this area, we think about them, and we regulate for them. I share Arena Williams\u2019 tentativeness about the support of that, because it is such a big move to leave something unsaid by the House and leave it to regulation. It is a very important thing to note here, because we\u2019re not really speaking to the people viewing this\u2014I\u2019m sure there\u2019s all three of them who are watching the insurance legislation\u2014but we\u2019re actually speaking into the Hansard, and we\u2019re making sure that, on the record, we\u2019re noting issues of concern and issues where perhaps the courts would interpret the legislation in the light of what we say. For me, one of the ones that stands out in this is this very new area where we\u2019re not sure where it\u2019s going, and where, in fact, it could mean that people who are vulnerable end up uninsured, or where companies take advantage of being able to collect information and insure only those where they\u2019re actually going to have a good payout, and, in fact, they\u2019re going to leave the ones that are uninsured for the other system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EWe have to be really careful about those things, and I am pleased to see this here, but I do want to just highlight that as an issue that we\u2019re going to have to think about more and relate to other areas of the law that we\u2019re shaping at the moment, where we\u2019re going to have to think really clearly in a changing world, where more information is able to be gathered than ever before, what do we want it to look like, what\u2019s our role as leaders\u2014and at the heart of that is working people in this country. It\u2019s people without capital, it\u2019s the consumer, and it\u2019s the disempowered. At the heart of that, our job is to make sure of it for those people, who we could be in that blind situation. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022 data-id=\u00222004eefb87f2474195b62607909f98e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222004eefb87f2474195b62607909f98e4\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a privilege to see this legislation go through the House and now to third reading, and I\u2019m very proud for New Zealanders and, of course, the Minister who brought it to bear and the great committee which has been mentioned today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003EI actually not often get to mention the Regulations Review Committee, which, by all accounts, is largely fairly dry, but it\u2019s got a fantastic chair in the Hon David Parker over there and Jenny Salesa. We actually got to look at the regulation-making power that came through from the Finance and Expenditure Committee with regard to the genetic testing and regulation-making powers and such things as \u201CHenry VIII\u201D clauses and whether there was an inappropriate delegation of power. Actually, with the appropriate mitigations that the Finance and Expenditure Committee accepted, we felt we got the balance right, where, with genetic testing, rather than make a rule, when it\u2019s such a dynamic environment, we\u2019ve actually enabled the Minister to have some discretion and some nuance through these regulation-making powers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003EI think we\u2019ve struck a really good balance in such a dynamic environment, which is genetic testing, where we\u2019re not saying the insurers will be able to just eliminate the ability to genetic test, but we\u2019re also preserving the right of individuals to have genetic testing and still have insurance access. That\u2019s a very fluid environment and we\u2019re happy to support this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003ESome of the members opposite talked about the Hon Duncan Webb\u2019s bill being better. Unfortunately, in their three years, they didn\u2019t advance that case, despite his 15\u00A0amendments at each part. I can say with confidence that he certainly did contribute to the iteration of the\u00A0committee and by and large, I think, in his heart will actually support much of what we\u2019re\u00A0doing today. One of the things in the old bill, for example, was that consumers had to disclose\u00A0any information that might influence a prudent insurer\u2014but who understands that? The left talk about looking after the little people. These bills actually look after the little people and put the onus on the insurance companies to ask the hard questions, and put the onus on them, where it should be. They put it in simple language, and, of course, we mandate that insurance settlements must be paid within a reasonable time frame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003EIt really strikes that balance between consumer protection and certainty for the market, and, of course, many of you may have forgotten that some of the statutes in the existing insurance legislation are over a hundred years old, like the Life Insurance Act 1908. These are great omnibus bills which tidy up a lot of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd8acb9dde9041359e04682cc9e42955\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: In the Marine Insurance Act, it\u2019s still there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200608d179f8a42eeb88e9c545db7349c\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: Were you around then, sorry, Duncan Webb? You seem to have a comment there. The most significant changes that this legislation encapsulates and tidies up is around regulation, technological advances, economic pragmatism, the claims process, clear time frames, insurers accept, access, and settlement claims. I commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u00226e14e86bfb81444893ff9c9e7a179b3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e14e86bfb81444893ff9c9e7a179b3f\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker, thank you very much. Look, we absolutely support improvements in insurance law, and this legislation, which is the product of both political and officials\u2019 work, is clearly an improvement. I guess our point is simply that this is very much, as the former speaker said, not just a once in a generation opportunity to improve insurance law but it\u2019s the first time that all of our insurance law, or almost all of our insurance law, has been brought together in one place. The Marine Insurance Act 1908 still sits off to one side as a specialist piece of insurance law, but pretty much the rest of it, particularly in respect of how it interfaces, rather than the regulatory side, now sits in this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003ECertainly, it\u2019s good to see codification of the disclosure rules, which have kind of developed over time but have never been really clearly or satisfactorily articulated. The idea now that there are different rules for consumers is a good thing, and certainly the onus should, in a modern environment, be on insurers to make sure that they ask the right questions and, where there are gaps, they fill in the gaps and an innocent non-disclosure doesn\u2019t lead to a failure of the entire policy. That is good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EI know that my colleagues who sat on the Finance and Expenditure Committee did a very good job and they made suggestions for improvement, including around the distinction between an insured or a policyholder acting in a dishonest way versus a fraudulent way. One of the challenges with the use of \u201Cdishonesty\u201D is that it\u2019s a much more graduated concept, from, you know, \u201Cought to have made an inquiry\u201D at the low end to \u201Cpositively intending to do something outright dishonest\u201D, whereas \u201Cfraudulently\u201D is a clearer term and\u00A0would\u2019ve been better, but we\u2019ve got to where we\u2019ve got to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EI do want to talk about the remedies for policyholders, because, whilst in my pretty extensive time in practice I saw occasional cases where an insurer would decline for non-disclosure, the greatest wrongdoing I saw was obstruction by insurers of the settlement of a claim in a timely way. They would be continually saying, \u201CWe just need to do a few more inquiries, a bit more investigation. We haven\u2019t quite decided what to do with it yet.\u201D, and so you wouldn\u2019t actually know, in many cases, even whether the insurer accepted the claim for months and sometimes even years. Now, that\u2019s utterly unacceptable, and whilst there is in this legislation an articulation of the current law, which is that the claim needs to be resolved within a reasonable period of time, we\u2019ve missed an opportunity. We\u2019ve really missed an opportunity to say exactly what that means.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EMy own view is, and it was in my member\u2019s bill\u2014still is in my member\u2019s bill, which we\u2019ll get to eventually\u2014was that there should be a brightline, that a reasonable time is 12 months unless the contrary can be proved. It really puts the onus on the insurer, because to simply take a long time whilst the money, essentially, stays in the bank is harmful in many, many ways, and not just financially. One of the things that perhaps this House doesn\u2019t realise is that\u00A0insurance isn\u2019t just about restoring property; it\u2019s about peace of mind. If you\u2019ve got a business or a home or something else that\u2019s been destroyed, something substantial, and you\u2019re still working through it, the degree of anxiety that that can cause when you don\u2019t know what the future looks like, whether you\u2019ll be financially secure or not, is really, really significant and can be quite destroying.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EOf course, the remedy for that is the other thing\u2014again, a missed opportunity. This piece of legislation could\u2019ve said that in consumer contracts there are damages\u2014proper damages, substantial damages\u2014for breach of settling the claim in a reasonable time. At the moment, the courts can and do award damages, but they are trivial damages\u2014$10,000 or $20,000 for what can be real heartache and distress. Interest is mentioned, but, again, not clearly; in a throwaway kind of way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EOf course, the biggest outrage in this piece of legislation is the win that the insurance sector got in carving out exclusion clauses from the Fair Trading Act unfair contract term provisions. We have a framework where insurance contracts are drawn in, in part, into that framework, but exclusion clauses are allowed to be unfair, which makes absolutely no sense. It\u2019s an absolute nonsense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThe other thing I\u2019ll comment on is the consumer business distinction and just the difficulty that that poses for small businesses. There are certainly instances where small businesses face pretty much the same obstacles and barriers of knowledge and complexity that consumers do,\u00A0and there\u2019s no real assistance for them in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003ELastly, genetic testing, which at the moment, it\u2019s fair to say, is not a huge problem in New Zealand, but increasingly there is the ability to have huge amounts of information about someone\u2019s health status through genetic testing. This empowers regulations to be made, and I would simply say to the Government: please, make those regulations\u2014make them as soon as possible, because we need to address this. This is one of the things that the select committee did very well: listened to submissions, got on and said, \u201CWe do need to do something about genetic testing.\u201D\u2014something that I hadn\u2019t put in my bill, that Andrew Bayly hadn\u2019t put in this bill, but the select committee picked up on it, and that is good process. Make those regulations so that we can protect people\u2019s personal information and make sure that they take advantage of the huge health benefits of genetic testing without putting at risk their health and life insurance. So, it\u2019s better legislation, but not as good as it could be\u2014but what do you expect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd1e7fca7c3a479f888c2669c05b7dfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd1e7fca7c3a479f888c2669c05b7dfb\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to close out this debate in what is often a dry topic but a very important topic indeed. This is the third reading of the Contracts of Insurance Bill and the Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003EThe importance of the insurance market can\u2019t be underestimated. It provides an ability for peace of mind, as my colleague from the opposite side mentioned before; the ability for businesses, consumers, and households to share risk; but, also, it provides opportunities, economic opportunities, for those in this sector. I\u2019d like to, again, just acknowledge the work of many into this legislation: the Minister Andrew Bayly, members from the opposite side, the hard-working members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and those who\u00A0submitted on this bill\u2014stakeholders, private individuals, and organisations alike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003EThis is important legislation. It\u2019s one that modernises contract law for the insurance sector. It improves transparency for consumers and it brings our regulations up to international best practice. What does it do? Well, that has been traversed quite substantially in the House today. For those of you at home, those two of you who are watching online, this legislation seeks to provide policyholders with a range of improved rights and insurance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c6014a9ef4b4488956d15c7c50e82f1\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Tell us about them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022542335c6104e42fe8490f96cf340cad5\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: One of those, in fact\u2014let\u2019s talk about them, OK?\u2014is around the right that insurers must present policies in a very clear and plain language way. For anybody who\u2019s actually been looking in the insurance market, it is a very opaque and difficult to understand industry, and I think this legislation seeks to make amends for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003EOn the opposite side, it provides a range of measures for consumers, mainly around the duty to not make misrepresentations to insurers and to a duty to be fair in presenting the risk to insurers. This is all about making sure that the balance is right around insurers, but also policyholders as well, to ensure that there is an efficient, well-run insurance market for New Zealanders. This is good legislation. I commend it to the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002205d0fbced03f436585e86b5895cffcfd\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Contracts of Insurance Bill and the Contracts of Insurance (Repeals and Amendments) Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000305\u0022\u003EBills read a third time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220b0b92194e00427aa2a8289b02f76dee\u0022\u003EHauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228ddd95be9e43429393e6fdc012fe8a86\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u00226d882af5b8164968bbbf925035b0ae9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d882af5b8164968bbbf925035b0ae9d\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, I present a legislative statement on the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220902d9e564cd4596ae19d17aa6a48079\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b01546c05de403d98170983b22f1ddb\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill be now read a second time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003ETiritiri-matangi, Hauturu-a-Toi, Aotea, Ng\u0101 Pona-toru-a-Peret\u016B, Te R\u0101hui-k\u0101k\u0101, Rangitoto, Motukorea, Te Motu-a-Ihenga, Motu-tapu-a-Taikehu, \u014Ctata, Motuhurakina, Te \u0100rai-roa, Te Pou-nui-a-Peret\u016B, P\u0101kihi, K\u0101ramuramu, tat\u016B atu r\u0101 ki Ng\u0101 Poito-o-te-kupenga-a-Taramainuku, a Toi-te-huatahi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003ETe Moana-nui-a-Toi-te-huatahi i hoea mai tana waka, a Paepae-ki-Rarotonga, ki Aotearoa Niu Tireni nei, i kawe atu i tana mana ure-t\u0101rewa ki roto i ng\u0101 iwi taketake, a koia hoki ko Huiarangi. I t\u0113nei w\u0101 e k\u012Bia nei ko t\u014Dna maunga Pigeon Mountain, i moe tahi me t\u0113nei moana ataahua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E[Tiritiri-matangi Island, Little Barrier Island, Great Barrier Island, the peaks on Rangitoto Island, the Parrot Reserve on Rangitoto, Pakihi Island, K\u0101ramuramu Island, and including the island chain known as the Floats on the Net of Taramainuku, and Toi-te-huatahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThe Great Bay of Toi-te-huatahi, who sailed his canoe, Paepae-ki-Rarotonga, here to Aotearoa New Zealand, and conveyed his patrilineal authority within the indigenous peoples, that is the celestial Huia. These days his mountain is known as Pigeon Mountain, who cohabited with this beautiful ocean.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to contribute to the restoration of health and mauri to the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana / Te Moananui-\u0101-Toi te rua tahi and to acknowledge customary rights within seafloor protection areas and high protection areas. It establishes 19 new marine protection areas that, in addition to existing marine reserves and the cable protection zones, will nearly triple protection in T\u012Bkapa Moana. These areas are a critical contribution to protecting biodiversity and reversing the decline we have seen in the gulf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThe bill is designed to support the gulf with modern marine protection measures that reflect the needs of both the environment and the people. The gulf\u2014T\u012Bkapa Moana\u2014has a diverse array of habitats, benthic, including kelp forests, fragile fields of corals, and others which support a great variety of ika\u2014fish, karengo\u2014seaweeds, and other species. It sees many migratory and transient specifies such as leatherback turtles or honu, manta rays, and humpback whales\u2014w\u0113ra. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EAotearoa New Zealand is known as the seabird capital of the world. One third of all seabirds, manu moana, that breed in Aotearoa nest in the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana. It\u2019s an important area to Aucklanders, people from Te Tara-o-te-Ika\u2014like my colleague Scott Simpson\u2014and to all New Zealanders. It has sustained the social, cultural, and spiritual wellbeing of mana moana and tangata whenua for centuries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EIt supports the largest metropolitan area in Aotearoa New Zealand and plays a critical role in our economy. It\u2019s a global tourism hotspot, boasting spectacular holiday destinations like the Coromandel and the Hauraki Gulf islands, and places like Man O\u2019 War\u2014an absolutely fantastic place on the western side of Waiheke. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022701da9106d39449aa6ed753394fcef13\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0101wharanui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283a5dfad3851441381fb2e8abfb5919f\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and T\u0101wharanui and other beautiful beaches up and down the eastern seaboard of regional Auckland. I look forward to Ryan Hamilton taking me to Waiheke shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EApproximately 70 percent of all recreational fishing in Aotearoa was carried out in T\u012Bkapa Moana, and a recent assessment put the value of T\u012Bkapa Moana at $100 billion. The population of the Coromandel has been steadily increasing and Auckland has almost doubled since 1990\u2014I look forward to the reopening of Cathedral Cove soon, Mr Simpson. Forecasts indicate that by 2030 more than 2.8 million people will be living within 80 kilometres of T\u012Bkapa Moana. This brings with it increases in recreational fishing, discharges, and land-based pressures. Climate change impacts are predicted to include increasing heatwaves, invasive species, and more frequent storm events. I don\u2019t like the sound of Caulerpa, or golden clams. The gulf is already battling these invasive pressures of Caulerpa and other matters. We must take action now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge the many years of effort, of energy, of resource into this bill. Starting from Tai Timu Tai Pari marine spatial plan\u2014Sea Change\u2014mana moana, mana whenua, organisations, businesses, local government, and individuals have all had significant roles in ensuring that this bill is the best that it can be. Can I acknowledge people like Nicola MacDonald and Paul Majurey and others who have contributed to that\u00A0mahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291020d504aed46f5a338cab2ad2f6941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cfc208f48f30482b928717fb4bb5bf88\u0022\u003EHon David Parker\u003C/span\u003E: And Eugenie Sage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7d2bf4e07414773b40c6f417e76fdee\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: And Eugenie Sage, yes, and Laurie Beamish from the great tribe of Ng\u0101i Tai ki T\u0101maki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EI also acknowledge the excellent work of the Environment Committee in considering this bill and the roughly 7,000 submissions received on it. I thank the submitters for their contributions and their mahi and whakaaro for this too. The committee\u2014great committee\u2014have recommended changes to the bill, focused on making these protection areas more effective and efficient. I tautoko these recommendations\u2014many of them. Some highlights that merit our attention include making it clear in the bill that careful anchoring can occur within the seafloor protection areas and high protection areas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re going to carefully monitor the effectiveness of the new high protection areas and seafloor protection areas, commonly known as HPAs and SPAs. These are new tools. Unlike marine reserves, they allow for some taking within the ocean, so we\u2019re going to ensure that they work. A report will be published at least every five years, detailing the outcomes of monitoring and research to date. We\u2019re cutting some of the bureaucracy and making it easier for councils to continue to fulfil their roles in protection areas by ensuring that they do not require permits to monitor or enforce a regional coastal plan or resource consents or to undertake activities relating to environmental monitoring. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EAlso\u2014and this is very important to me and many of my colleagues in T\u0101maki-makau-rau and out there in Moehau, Te Tara-o-te-Ika, and also a bit further north of T\u0101maki-makau-rau up in Mahurangi\u2014we are going to clarify customary rights by ensuring that protected customary rights and customary marine title rights, as provided for under the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act 2011 are upheld. This includes exempting any activity carried out under those rights from the prohibitions in the bill\u2014that is, these rights are uninterrupted. The bill also ensures that the establishment of SPAs\u2014seafloor protection areas\u2014and HPAs\u2014high protection areas\u2014do not impact on any existing application for rights in these areas, requiring affected people to be consulted on any new future management actions proposed in the high protection areas so that anyone who may be impacted has a say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EWhile I support and tautoko many of the recommendations of the select committee, I have further considered the appropriate balance between the environment, communities, and the economy and will be putting forward the following amendments to be considered at the committee of the whole House stage, providing greater clarity for how the bill gives effect to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the Treaty of Waitangi, by including signposting provisions and ensuring that settlements that have been made under Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014Treaty of Waitangi\u2014settlement processes are upheld. That includes those wh\u0101nau and those iwi that have had a great experience over many years with doing the mahi up in T\u0101maki-makau-rau: people like the Waiohua Tamaki people, who have marine seaboards, like Ng\u0101i Tai ki T\u0101maki, people from the Hauraki iwi and the Hauraki sourced iwi like Ng\u0101ti P\u0101oa and others, Ng\u0101ti Tamater\u0101, Ngaati Whanaunga, and also those people from the Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua dynasty\u2014the wh\u0101nau up at \u014Cr\u0101kei, Takaparawhau, and other places throughout Raki Paewhenua, the North Shore, and beyond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EWe are removing the ability for the bill to regulate customary non-commercial fishing beyond what is currently provided for in the Fisheries Act\u2014my view, again, is on ensuring that the customary fishing provisions are undertaken per the Fisheries Act and there\u2019s no new additional impost or restrictions on the exercise of those customary rights and responsibilities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EFinally, we are providing for carefully managed and limited ring-net fishing in two high protection areas. These are the items that we are going to propose. There may be one or two others by way of the committee of the whole House. Again, it\u2019s an absolute pleasure and a humble privilege to consider and to promote the second reading of this bill. I now commend it to this Whare. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u00222ecd5a500df7435da481f11d5f693652\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222ecd5a500df7435da481f11d5f693652\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that that motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022 data-id=\u00228813ecfdd2754bce97f6d93e0afd94a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228813ecfdd2754bce97f6d93e0afd94a3\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Kia orana, Mr Speaker. I rise in support, on behalf of the Labour Party, of the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill as reported back from the Environment Committee. This was a bill that Labour introduced to the Parliament last year. I want to acknowledge those that have been involved with this piece of legislation through to this point today. I think all members of this House will agree that this has been a bill that has been a long time coming. Many have had to wait some time for this to make its way through the process, but it does seek to restore the wellbeing of the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not an Auckland member of Parliament, but I know that my colleagues from T\u0101maki-makau-rau know, perhaps more than many others know, the significant role that the Hauraki, in particular the Hauraki Gulf, plays not just in their rohe but indeed for the rest of the country. It is very clear that action is needed to ensure that, moving forward, this taonga continues to be protected for the future, reflecting on what has happened in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EThe select committee process: I want to acknowledge, as the Minister has identified, the submitters that submitted to this process. There were a lot of submissions, more than 7,500, and 79 submitters that were dealt with orally. The select committee, which I\u2019m not a permanent member of but was part of some aspect of these submissions, did spend some time in Auckland, did spend time visiting the Hauraki Gulf and sitting here in Wellington as well. Being in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, hearing the passion of submitters, I think is something that will be very memorable to those members that were there for that. There have been individuals, groups, and organisations that have worked for an extremely long time to see what this select committee report has brought to the Parliament today, and I actually think the passion was very evident there and continues to be evident as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EWhen we look at what some of these submitters had talked about, they talked about the depleting of fish stocks. They talked about the number of fishes that were on the decline and that continued to be at risk, noting that snapper and cray were virtually extinct in the current climate. They talked about the reduction to marine life, to bird life, to changes and loss in relation to the natural habitat of the area. They talked about the impact, and they were able to show the impact of sedimentation and what that impact would mean for the water body. They talked about pollution and how that had changed over time as well. They also talked about the urban development changes and the direct impact that that had had on the Hauraki Gulf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EI remember, in Auckland, I took this photograph. [Holds up photograph of two jars of water] One submitter did this to illustrate the change. They brought water from the Gulf\u00A0and they put it in two jars. They\u2019re both the same type of water, but one had, effectively, some marine life, if we could call it that, and identified the undisturbed nature that that would mean. It\u2019s very clear that those that have been involved in this passion and existence over many years really do understand the difference that change will bring for this particular area. That\u2019s why this select committee has reported back to this House in this report with all of its recommendations in a unanimous fashion. I want to acknowledge the Hon Scott Simpson, who\u2019s the local member of Parliament but also the chair at the tail end of the Environment Committee as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EWhat is really concerning, though, is just hearing from the Minister this afternoon, basically confirming his intention to make some changes. Now, he announced that a month ago. One of the changes he announced was, basically, to permit a commercial sense of fishing in some of the high protection areas that had been established by this bill, and he\u2019s confirmed that for the House today. Mr Speaker, I know you and other members of the House were on the steps of Parliament this morning, where members received more than 30,000 signatures that indicated, via an open letter to the Prime Minister and also a petition, the ridiculous nature of the changes that the Minister has just indicated. This is a backward step in terms of the future for T\u012Bkapa Moana. This was not something that was raised through the democratic select committee process. It is not something that the Minister had foreshadowed at any stage. That does beg the question: why now? This is an important piece of legislation, and I know that, really, if the Government intends to go down this path, then it really is a disservice to all of those submitters who engaged with the process in good\u00A0faith, gave up their time to share their views. Basically, what we\u2019re going to have is a huge retrograde step backwards that is going to continue the depletion of what is happening up there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003ENow, when we talk about having high protection areas (HPAs)\u2014and the suggestion was that there would be no fishing, no commercial fishing in those areas\u2014for the Government to now backtrack on that and say, \u201CWe\u2019re going to continue to have commercial fishing in those areas.\u201D, it will continue to cause irreversible damage for the future. It\u2019s very clear that this is a Government that has on their agenda a direction that is not supportive of the community needs in that particular rohe and in that particular area. Knowing that individuals, organisations, iwi, and others have put their names in a pretty short space of time, just on a month, to signal that, I really do hope that the Minister and the Government take direct cognisance of that when it comes to the committee of the whole House stage, because it is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003ENew Zealand used to be a leader in the marine protection side of things and space, but by international standards, less than 1 percent of our exclusive economic zone has a level of protection that meets international standards. What does that mean? Well, it means that it basically puts us behind some other countries in the world\u2014countries like the US, the UK, Japan, and Russia, amongst some others. The Government in this Parliament need to acknowledge the special status of T\u012Bkapa Moana / Hauraki Gulf, and they need to confirm that it is irreplaceable. They need to place on record that they are serious about the future of this particular jewel or gem. Because of the amendments that the Minister has signalled\u2014and we\u2019ll wait until they\u2019re tabled and we have a look at those\u2014this is going to be very much a retrograde step. It would have to be the Minister resiling completely from the comments that he has just made in this House to basically confirm the intention to continue a level of commercial fishing in those HPAs. That is rather disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EI know the Minister probably will say, \u201CWell, it\u2019s to provide local support in the area.\u201D Well, there needs to be a decision that is taken by the Parliament, and indeed by the Government, that supports the submissions that have been made and this process that has been democratic, and it is extremely disappointing. I do hope that those that availed themselves of the select committee process will make their views known. We know that they already have; more than 30,000 of them have this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003EThe reason why the Labour Party supports the bill and will vote in support of it today is because this report, unanimously\u2014every single party in this Parliament has signed up and agreed that what was presented should be passed into law and that the amendments that were made by a unanimous vote, not majority but unanimous\u2014through that select committee process should be incorporated in the bill. On that basis, and on that basis alone, I do commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd04c67024ef4b4cbf794a49c8c94096\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd04c67024ef4b4cbf794a49c8c94096\u0022\u003ELAN PHAM (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. If there\u2019s one thing that Kiwis are truly united on, it\u2019s the love for our moana, our oceans. As humans who are really trying to figure out this crazy world, our understanding and awareness of not only the immeasurable value that healthy ocean ecosystems play in our existence and our ability to provide for ourselves but also the pivotal role that tangata whenua and tangata Moana hold\u2014that our very narrow and siloed systems can actually start learning from\u2014is growing. We are really slowly but surely getting better at marine protection, and this bill, the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill, was really demonstrating that evolution in practice. It was at least set to be marine protection that actually upholds customary rights\u2014or, in other words, the rights of M\u0101ori in exercising tino rangatiratanga and their rights to gather and practice mahinga kai, and that form of enabling, that form of appropriate recognition, means that we as a collective of tangata Tiriti and tangata whenua are in the best possible position, where we all benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003ESpeaking about oceans, I really need to share one of the privileges of my life, which was when I spent 13 months living and working, running the biodiversity and science contracts for the Department of Conservation, on Rangit\u0101hua / Raoul Island, in the Kermadecs. It\u2019s a little rock that\u2019s a five-day boat ride away from any kind of civilisation. The whole island itself is alive. It\u2019s an active volcano full of bird and plant life and surrounded by teeming ocean life. There\u2019s dolphins, there\u2019s groper, there\u2019s humpback whales, there\u2019s turtles, and in that time I got a snapshot of what a semi-intact marine ecosystem looked like and felt like. When anyone experiences that kind of marine life, you can\u2019t help but be reminded not only of how much we have lost closer to home, in places like T\u012Bkapa Moana, but of how much we have to gain if we actually create the right settings to allow these ecosystems to restore and recover. When I heard the stories of people\u2019s experiences and memories of what T\u012Bkapa Moana was, I was reminded of that experience and of how important it is that we actually hold on to that connection and that experience for our kids and for those who come after us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003EIt was a real pleasure to be part of the select committee process on this bill, and particularly because we inherited something that had already been through so much community consultation, deliberation, and development. This bill really has been over a decade of collaborative work between tangata whenua, environmental groups, industry, commercial and recreational fishers, and others involved in the sea change process that began way back in 2013. I really want to acknowledge every single person, every single group, every entity who has been part of that process along the way that has resulted in where the select committee got to with this bill, in the face of such serious ecological challenges. I\u2019m sure my select committee colleagues across the House will agree with me\u00A0that we really were conscious of that. We were very respectful of the part that we had to play, which was, essentially, at the end of such a long process, with so many people having been involved. Ultimately, that resulted in what my colleagues have already referred\u00A0to: this unanimous decision to report the bill back to Parliament with so few substantial changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003ELike my colleague Tangi Utikere, it was then so hugely disappointing to hear the Government\u2019s announcement of this amendment to actually allow commercial fishing in these high-protection areas. I really want to amplify and share the outcry we\u2019ve heard from individuals, from groups, from hap\u016B connected to T\u012Bkapa Moana who do not want to see this amendment enabled. We\u2019ve heard these 30,000 voices in the petition that we just received today, and we\u2019re hearing that this kind of change would completely undermine the purpose of the bill in restoring the health and the mauri of T\u012Bkapa Moana. Government parties should know that it\u2019s not too late to reverse this, to actually uphold the integrity of the process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003EIf this bill actually did pass through unscathed by this last-minute amendment, this would be a really happy moment for the Government and particularly for the National Party, because the Sea Change Stakeholder Working Group developed the Sea Change - Tai Timu Tai Pari Hauraki Gulf Marine Spatial Plan under a National-led Government in 2017. That foundation is now forming the protections under this bill. Instead of a happy moment right now, we have New Zealand First acting a little bit like an invasive species on this democratic process which is in progress. They\u2019ve somehow managed to override the process and make specific carve-outs for specific companies. This doesn\u2019t need to happen, it shouldn\u2019t happen, and it was great to hear the Minister say earlier that not only must we take action now but we want to ensure that the high-protection areas and the seafloor protection areas actually work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003EWe have this natural wonder here on our doorstep, as T\u012Bkapa Moana. It\u2019s an essential and traditional source of mahinga kai. We\u2019ve heard about the immense economic benefits\u2014the $100\u00A0billion of economic value that this has for the T\u012Bkapa community. This bill is not locking it all up and throwing away the key. The protections proposed in this bill will actually ensure that the gulf can withstand the environmental impacts that have been documented time after time in the State of the Gulf reports. They\u2019re not news to us. It\u2019s climate breakdown, it\u2019s sedimentation from misuse of land, and we need to increase the protection with this network of sanctuaries so that marine ecosystems can actually recover. We would only be going from 0.3 percent protection to 6 percent of full protection within the gulf. This enables fishing within the other 94 percent, which seems very, very reasonable. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003EThis bill is not about restricting our access to this incredible taonga. It\u2019s about giving the gulf a chance to recover. Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki would have liked to see it go much further. We would have liked to see, particularly, bottom trawling banned from the gulf because of the very clear impacts that it has on the ability for marine ecosystems to recover. We had really clear information from officials during this process that that would have been a positive thing for the gulf. Despite that, where we\u2019re at now is where fishing, both commercial and recreational, will be possible. What will change is that the gulf\u2019s most vulnerable ecosystems will finally be given some breathing space that they so desperately need to regenerate. I want to just quote something that we heard outside on the steps of Parliament earlier today, from Tangata Moana campaigner Bianca Ranson. She said, \u201CIt\u2019s time to restore the mauri of the gulf. The Government as a whole, as in us here in Parliament, have this opportunity to do something really special. It\u2019s not too late to ditch these unnecessary amendments that undermine where the collective community have gotten to to this point.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002203a9a78995df41d999aa5550770febd3\u0022\u003EYes, Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki are pleased to see this bill pass, and we will be supporting it at this point, but we really want to see serious consideration from the Government to enabling and upholding the integrity of the process and the bill. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d84ebf08176c4ad7aae205f8a4c73e0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d84ebf08176c4ad7aae205f8a4c73e0e\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m proud that the ACT Party is part of a Government that is finally taking action to restore the health and vitality and abundance of the Hauraki Gulf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EThe ACT Party supports the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill, and I want to let people listening or watching at home know\u2014and a reminder for those who are not on the Environment Committee considering this bill, which I had the privilege to be on\u2014that this is not a bill that creates marine reserves. This is a bill that introduces to the New Zealand conservation system a new concept of adaptive management. Within these marine protected areas, this bill, and those acting and using powers under this bill, will still have to deal with invasive marine pests like Caulerpa and deal with indigenous species like kina, which, when out of control, create kina barrens and destroy reefs and habitats, and themselves contribute to the poor condition of the gulf. This is groundbreaking, it is unique in New Zealand, and while we all wish for the bill and the protections to go further, we are trying something we haven\u2019t tried before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the work of the select committee. The select committee reported this bill back unanimously. We did seek significant changes from the Department of Conservation. We got excellent advice from the Ministry of Primary Industries, from their fisheries professionals, and we were able to take that on along with the considerations and concerns of submitters to produce what I personally felt, and what I recommended to our ACT caucus, was a bill that we could support. However, it has become clear that there is further change needed in order to take on board some of the rights that exist amongst existing users.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EThe select committee had the benefit of taking a field trip out on the Hauraki Gulf, organised by the Department of Conservation (DOC) and some of their staff. I want to acknowledge the work of those DOC staff in leadership roles providing excellent policy advice and explanations about some of the matters we needed to consider. I want to acknowledge their work and the fact that they were able to create a sense of collaboration and unity of purpose between policy makers or policy writers and elected members whose role was to interrogate that policy. That was an excellent, excellent opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EBeing out on the Hauraki Gulf gave me an opportunity to share with some of the other committee members from outside of Auckland my personal experiences of growing up in Auckland, spending decades on the Hauraki Gulf as a sailor; windsurfing around some of those Hauraki Gulf islands on multi-day experiences with nothing more than a backpack and a raincoat; scuba-diving, being able to get a feed of scallops, get a crayfish, and how proud I used to be bringing that back to the boat to show my mum and dad and uncles and cousins; and why it\u2019s so gutting for me, and so many other people who love the Hauraki Gulf and grew up with that experience, to know that that\u2019s not the case now. Just a few weeks ago, I was kayaking off East Coast Bays, up to \u014Ckura estuary, and wondering where all of those dolphins and other creatures are that used to be so prolific in the gulf, but which I see only rarely these days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the work not just of officials and committee members but of Sea Change and the Hauraki Gulf Forum and others, particularly those who I\u2019ve met with outside of the committee work to get their insights into what were the motivations and what were the trade-offs that are already being made before this bill had come to our committee. I want to acknowledge their work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge those passionate, sometimes incredibly intense, submissions that we received from people who love the Hauraki Gulf as much as I do and who all had different perspectives based on whether they were involved in commercial fishing, whether they were recreational fishers, whether they were people who lived on islands in the gulf and their families had lived there for many, many generations. We took all that on board and I hope we reflected in this committee report, as far as possible, the things that were important to you and that you wanted us to know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the concerns that iwi and hap\u016B raised about maintaining access to their kaimoana as part of their customary rights which are already established as part of Treaty settlements. I\u2019ve heard a number of concerns raised by those who say, \u201CWell, how is it that iwi and hap\u016B have this access to continued fishing in the Hauraki Gulf but others, like recreational and commercial fishers, potentially are excluded?\u201D Well, of course, Treaty settlements are the vehicle to establish customary rights. The ACT Party is proud to stand up for people\u2019s property rights and customary rights. We believe in the rule of law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EWe also heard from the Department of Conservation that there are sufficient protections in the legislation that\u2019s proposed, so that environmental baselines will need to be established before a customary take can be any more than a mana-enhancing exercise rather than something substantial. It was very, very important that we reflected that in our report back, and I hope that many people who are concerned about what they perceive as a risk of customary take will have their concerns allayed once they get to know more about the protections for biodiversity that are in place that must be balanced against the opportunities for customary take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard concerns expressed today from the World Wildlife Fund and other non-governmental organisations about the potential for commercial fishing in some of these marine protected areas, and I want to acknowledge those concerns. I also want to point out that the Hauraki Gulf is a source of food for Auckland and for others, because not everybody can afford a boat, not everybody can afford the fuel, and not everybody can afford a fishing rod or has the time and the skills to get out there on the water. That\u2019s why being able to access kaimoana in your local fish shop or supermarket is particularly important for communities which don\u2019t have access to the ability to get out on the water. We are trying to balance the needs of people against the rights of the environment and all of those creatures that live in it\u2014to live their best lives too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EI just want to acknowledge that, overall, despite all of the concerns that still remain about whether this bill will deliver on our ambition to restore the gulf, this is the best step forward that any Government has taken to protect the gulf since the Hauraki Gulf Marine Park legislation was passed over 20 years ago. That itself\u2014the simple statement\u2014wasn\u2019t sufficient; this is action. If you think about the 80:20 rule, the first 80 percent is a lot easier to do than the last 20 percent. This bill represents the 80 percent\u2014what we can achieve now through legislation while we work on adaptive management to realise our ambitions to restore the gulf over decades. The results will take decades to assess and verify.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003EI was really pleased to hear the Minister of Conservation, Tama Potaka, point out that this bill now includes provision for five-yearly reassessments of progress. Previously, that was only going to be undertaken at the first 25-year milestone. As an environmental scientist and then a civil engineer and an environmental engineer, I really wanted to make sure that we were doing regular check-ins to monitor environmental performance, because there\u2019s no point in just passing a piece of legislation, crossing your fingers, walking away, and hoping for 25 years. We want to know what\u2019s going on in our gulf and we want to know what else we might need to do to adapt and change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003ETo those watching and listening at home, again, I\u2019ll reiterate: ACT is proud to support this bill and we look forward to continuing the debate at the committee of the whole House stage. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022 data-id=\u002235df7d0068f84156afcf863faec28db3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235df7d0068f84156afcf863faec28db3\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure to rise on behalf of New Zealand First in support of the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill, now in its second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EI am blessed. I am absolutely blessed because I have a beautiful, big, blue backyard. It is called the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana, and some of those in the Chamber today also share my beautiful, big, blue backyard. Those of us that know and have lived around the Hauraki Gulf, and me, Mahurangi, we are certainly passionate about this piece of legislation coming through the House, and I will quickly acknowledge the Minister for bringing this through and the former Minister in the previous Government for starting off this piece of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EMahurangi, I mentioned. I\u2019d also like to mention T\u0101wharanui, \u014Cmaha, Mathesons Bay, P\u0101kiri, Scotts Landing, Baddeleys Beach, Leigh, and Goat Island. It is Goat Island, in particular, that was the first marine reserve that was created, and I must acknowledge the amazing kaum\u0101tua from my region, Laly Haddon. It was the work and his dedication behind the creation of New Zealand\u2019s first marine reserve at Leigh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EMy daughter growing up in the region, the schools all go to Goat Island\u2014we\u2019d go to the Marine Discovery Centre. Our visitors all come in and explore because it\u2019s the most amazing piece of our big, blue backyard\u2014snorkelling, looking at all the fish, looking at all the amazing kelp, all those sorts of things, jellyfish, stingrays. It is most fantastic. The work that Laly Haddon started\u2014in 1975 it was established and then it officially opened in 1977. He received a QSM in 2009 for his work. He is well connected not only to my leader, Winston Peters, but also to Shane Jones. I really wanted to make sure I began my contribution acknowledging the work of Laly Haddon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EThis is a really significant piece of protection work for the Hauraki Gulf / T\u012Bkapa Moana. It\u2019s been years in the making. I won\u2019t go through all of the comments about the select committee because, really, it\u2019s been a great select committee that has done a really thorough piece of work on this. It will create a network of 19 new marine protection areas and we should be celebrating that in the House today. That is a milestone. It will nearly triple the space that will be protected in T\u012Bkapa Moana, and that is something to be absolutely proud of. We all have had a role in that. Pollution; sedimentation; in particular, climate change; harvesting; utilisation activities\u2014they\u2019ve all had an impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EThose of us that use the gulf on a regular basis, particularly over summertime, are expecting an influx of visitors to our region. We have to get out there really early in the morning, before all the visitors arrive from Auckland and around the country as well. I\u2019ve shared with you now some names of beaches. You don\u2019t just have to go to \u014Cmaha; there\u2019s a whole bunch of others you can go to. Do enjoy that when you come up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge a couple of women who have been fundamental and dedicated and passionate in terms of the protection about the Hauraki Gulf. I\u2019d like to mention the co-chair of the Hauraki Gulf Forum, Nicola MacDonald\u2014I\u2019ve got to know her quite well over the course of the year\u2014as well as from the Environmental Defence Society, Raewyn Peart, who\u2019s been a very dedicated ambassador of looking after the gulf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge the Environmental Defence Society. When the Minister acknowledged that the bill would come back to the House, they were delighted that Cabinet agreed to the passing of the Hauraki Gulf marine protection bill. They have seen, even though there is a small amendment coming, that, actually, this is, overall, to be celebrated. It is to be celebrated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to speak very quickly on ring netting, just to put some facts on the table, because it\u2019s really important that we\u2019re not just being hysterical about this. It\u2019s a small reason to ensure that affordable, nutritious protein can continue to be supplied to local communities. Now, ring-net fishing happens only in the winter on the East Coast, because the fish aren\u2019t there in the summertime. It\u2019s fished at night and there are only five fishers who will go out and fish through a very short period of time, over a few months over winter only, and they\u2019re in tiny little 6-metre boats. It\u2019s not trawling; it\u2019s not the big commercial fishing. It is very small.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EIt is enabling this affordable nutritious protein kahawai, grey mullet, at $5 to $10 a kilo\u2014so it provides that local community with protein that they ask them for. Also, the licensed fish receiver who provides this affordable, nutritious protein supplies to around 34 marae in Auckland, particularly during the wintertime, and it mitigates hap\u016B needing to go out and send their wh\u0101nau out into the waters in the winter when the conditions are rough. They are able to get their customary take there so they can supply hui and tangi. It made sense to make this a recommendation, and I look forward to the Minister bringing those amendments to the House. It\u2019s a very small amendment that is being proposed. It is a practical and a pragmatic one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003ETalking about practical application of how we change the state of the gulf, the Hon Shane Jones has recently announced a new permit, a special permit, to deal to the kina barrens, because we know the kina barrens, they munch through all the kelp and they create this habitat, which is a massive loss of habitat and biodiversity. The very first kina barren special permit has been approved, and the very first community day will be happening this Saturday in my neck of the woods in the Mahurangi, with the Te Kohuroa Rewilding initiative. They\u2019ll have their first kina barren day on Saturday at Mathesons Bay. I\u2019m very pleased about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EWe also have invested a whole lot of money\u2014around $15 million\u2014into dealing to exotic Caulerpa, which is a problem. Caulerpa has bloomed across the gulf. This is a massive problem. This Government is providing practical ways in which we can take care of our moana, because it is a treasure. It is a treasure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just like to finish my contribution with the words of Laly Haddon, that we all have to protect it and be the kaitiaki. We all have to be the guardians of it because the pressures are here. This bill balances the needs of the community, the environment, and the economy. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u00229a0c86b2ac8f41458b97d8ea7cfd49b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a0c86b2ac8f41458b97d8ea7cfd49b0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202411133372db2ba3524924bcb1cefb48ead608000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 1.02 p.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"